Hey, JG. Thanks for joining. Hey, what's going on guys? It's good. Happy, happy Sunday. Another week, right? Come on, come on, so fast. Yeah, man, it's crazy. Crazy.
the time ago. I think everybody's so busy and occasionally in our own worlds getting down to watching everything. I'll give it a few moments. Let some others join. We had some Twitter did a pre-rug on me before I could even get started so getting the word out.
Here I'll retweet it from a couple of accounts.
Nice appreciate that. I definitely glad you joined. I definitely want you part of the conversation and just kind of riff on, you know, NFTs in general and some of the cool possibilities that I think some of it we're dipping our toes into right now, but
There's other things that we could even do on top of it. It'd be cool to talk about. You know, I'm super for that because we want to utilize your vault for part of our main strategy.
Awesome. Yeah, that'd be great.
Hey Jimmy, how's it going?
living that auto life. Uh hi there my name is Jimmy the Otter. Long time listener first time speaker in this space.
Nah, I just said how have you been?
however I didn't, you know.
Yeah, make it in. Hang it out in spaces. This chilling. No, I'm here to criticize you.
it, no punches pulled already. Well, I mean, you have to take a close look at his previous speakers. He claims that he's accelerating the Cosmos ecosystem. However, many of the projects that you've had on board, pretty questionable.
Well, I'm not gonna lie, a lot of those projects and some of those strategies are a little bit beyond me. I keep it a little more basic. Try to keep it to basics, you know? Keep it simple.
what do you have against uh... against calisthenics
It's not just them. It's many others. But I would say the main issue is that when DYDX came to Cosmos, I thought, "Okay, that's interesting. It's good for their token. I can see the use cases there. It makes sense. They have a crack record. They're on Binance, right? They're listed.
relatively old project, pretty good team, pretty well known to, strong GitHub. And then you got like 30 other DeFi projects coming up claiming they got millions of dollars in funding. And then when you go to the website and you actually trying to use some of the stuff, then you realize pretty quickly
The team is the first project that they ever had. Okay, interesting. Then the project itself hasn't really released very much. Okay, interesting, but they're marketing a lot. They're marketing. Talk a lot about their token. They're either token. That's interesting.
Okay, then we see a lot of questionable ad most for example do you five projects? Doing wash training that's called out okay fine and then you got these other projects coming on your Twitter spaces and You come back to me and say what's the problem with them?
Are you that Jimmy can I question? No, he's not he's just want to hear your opinion, but I have a question for you. So I have been looking you have a very critical thinking mind and I would like your opinion on something that we are doing at backbone labs and
So what we're doing there is we started a community LSD with a 100% fee sharing of the fee generated are going to be 70% directed to the astroport LP pool to be dead. Huh?
zero x does zero x I'm not familiar with zero x exactly. They do the first team to do that back. There's two parts. There's two parts to this right so it's addressing D5 through NFTs right so 70% is going to the L people
30% is going to the skeleton punk Dow and their holders and their launching and backbone labs is launching a launch plan. Like what Bob finance does improve. So what we're doing though is we're going to partner with Wi-Fioundry. We're going to use their bolts and the projects that launch on
our platform are going to need to commit 25% of their mint to the vault, which will go to the LP to produce more liquidity depth for our LSD for six months. And this secures the retail NFT market because if the project rugs or doesn't fulfill the roadmap in the community, you can step forward and claim those
funds and either continue with the project or they can take legal action however they want to move forward. But if the project does well, they can come pick up those funds with interest. And this way we kind of get a symbiotic circle of like the NFT energy and NFT market which can protect the finance like this. Who?
It's a Crow project instead of what you just said they just say they bond it. It's very basically the exact same thing. Yeah, no project. The project is self bonding, but we're in a unique situation because we have an LSD.
Right. And then now we're launching NFTs, which will commit to the self bonding and put their. Yeah. So it's again, put a box finances website. You'll see that they use NFTs to indicate or symbolize that in that way, right?
Many projects have done this. But see, but hold on, we're not just using NFTs to represent the bonding. Like the NFT project has to have their own unique project and then they're committed again. So it is unique NFT projects. You haven't gone to their website. Even though I've told you now four times.
projects that are unique, they go to finance and they go through that same process. You're not unique. No, you're not unique in that. Oh, I don't need to be unique. We're not trying to be unique. We're just trying to fill projects, all projects like this have failed. Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you.
Thank you so much. You're welcome. Yeah, we're still working through all the details. So it's good to learn lessons from the projects before, build on them. And Jimmy, I share your concerns, especially when it comes to some of the like token games. Why are you talking about it? We shouldn't be working on it and figuring it out.
We are. How many know? If you know about the watch, boundary platform, it's all a community-run funding platform. I think the world was basically kicked me out of. I haven't figured out what you're supposed to be doing.
Okay, I don't know if we've actually kicked you out of any spaces, but really we're getting us confused with some others. Okay.
Yeah, so I mean, it's all we just provide we're providing tools. We're looking to partner with others providing tools to use a mechanism to get community funding and
What? I just kicked Jimmy out. If he wants to say stuff like that, we can make sure it's factual. Yeah.
Yeah, that's fine. I'm completely open to criticism. He seems like he was, I don't know, not in a mood to listen. No, he's just poking at stuff. It's not worth anybody's time. I'm done with that.
Well, you know, one thing that I think it needs to be also recognized is that just because a project on one specific chain did not succeed, it doesn't mean that something similar on a different chain or a different environment won't succeed, right? Just because one person failed, I mean there was plenty of people who failed applying a plane. They didn't stop.
No, I mean, there's no, yeah, I mean, it's not like there's any there's no such thing as an original idea. I mean, that's a it's not the saying that I mean, that's what we're all doing. We're building on the successes of the past and we're figuring out, you know, where did it fail? How can we
look at what the lessons learned and how can we do it better. We're essentially enabling those tools to provide that transparency, that visibility, and have mechanisms that the community can contribute and prevent projects from rugging. There's some extra security.
security in there. I see that composability is really we've just started to scratch the surface on it and we should be looking at the ideas that have come before us and seeing how we can rehash those and rebuild in different ways that could be successful. Not everything needs to be a completely original
So, you know, sort of, yeah, I mean, you just look at our community, our community, our branded vaults, for instance. I mean, they're going to be very similar in a lot of ways. We're going to start out with some, you know, pretty simple strategies. Is that saying that those are not useful? People need some
of those strategies they want to use them, but maybe they would rather give the performance fees back to the NFT projects that they partner with as opposed to another protocol. So, I mean, it's just different options and different ways that people can launch, get funding and
different things, you know? It's that sort of parameterized composability aspect of it. Yeah, I mean, it is what it is. It's a weird way to kick off the space, but yeah, appreciate Jimmy just coming in, taking some swings, but you know, whatever, we can get going.
Hey, you can't really take anything too seriously from an individual who claims they're an otter. You know what I mean? Let's just keep a pushing.
Yeah, I mean, I don't I honestly like I mean at this point like what I think we're all you know trying to build things that are you know useful to the community we're trying to We have the best intentions at heart and we really want to launch things that are
You know valuable for people that have real value. So I'm not worried about it. I mean, I know that honestly like there is some legitimacy to some of those concerns with the space in general. You know, people that, you know, the token games and the inflationary.
So, I mean, I see us as trying to build from that and actually solve some of those problems, you know, using NFTs and other mechanisms. >> I'm super excited about the governance tools that you guys were proposing to
bring bringing out. Yeah, I would love to talk more about that actually. I think that's a good one to discuss because we've had a few I've been in a few NFT projects outside of why Foundry just as a holder myself and it seems like
It's very intuitive and there's an appetite to have. I'm a holder and I want to have some sort of say in this project kind of what we've seen with now and style. I don't know if you're familiar with that project, but. Boy am I there. I got it killing it every day. He's like spitting those things out.
Yeah, it's just like one NFT one vote and I think that there could be all sorts of layers of different sort of governance mechanisms in there doesn't necessarily need to be a one-f NFT one vote sort of consensus but having having that idea of like I'm a holder and I'm
I have governance rights and I can help determine on-chain, determine the direction of this project, vote on things on-chain, there's no off-chain snapshots. I think that that's something that we are building the tools to be able to enable.
Yeah, well, we're going to have to have some talks privately because as we go it for our part of the skeleton punks at
As we do proceed to the next phase, we will be turning it over to the holders. They will be in control of the ship, probably by Q1. That's our goal.
That's awesome. So what sort of things is that the sort of thought and I know that there are the devils in the details of actually working that out and we've got some mechanisms that are already that will be in place for the MVP that could be used for this. And then there's others that may be
version one as we progress to before the end of the year. That might be unlock additional options there. Ray and I were talking about it not too long ago with the group. Are there special
So, no, I don't think it's super great. So basically what we did is, you know, backbone labs made the grave digger and basically gave the grave digger to the skeleton punks. That's what's happening, right? Now, in this model, we set some of the
and parameters that 70% of the fees generated from the grave digger are going to go to the Ash report LP providing pool so they can be heavily incentivized to provide the liquidity and 30% is going to go to the SP Dow and this is where the skeleton punks will be able to stake and revenue share along with the platform.
So what we need is to have a governance where a skeleton punk holder can propose a vault if they want to a new vault or they can propose some type of thing that sits on top of our LSD platform. Right. And you can only do that as a skeleton punk holder if they want
want to, like if they want to do anything within the project, if they want to even like take revenues and invest, like they could figure out, we're going to let them do like a spectrum of stuff, but it's going to be based around the ownership of the grave bigger because that is the asset that the community now owns.
Okay, so just talk to me just so not only so I'm clear, but just if anyone listens to this space, anyone else in the space needs the background. The great digger, those are back, but a selection of NFTs.
No, okay, so backbone labs, if you go to backbonelabs.io, you're going to see a defi hub that the core members of the skeleton punk team and their partners made. And then from that, we produced our auto compound
the grave digger which is meant to resurrect and unearth all the undead lunatics still out there right so our goal our our long distance goal is to have this new bone Luna this auto compound or this over collateralized
We are sharing 100% of all the fees that will be generated from this. If you have three or more skeleton punks, you will be able to unlock revenue.
sharing with the platform. Like the core team members are receiving no pay. We are going to earn because of the skeleton punks we hold. There are some people in the community who have like 80. I have 30 of these things, right? But I'm directing this thing and I don't have them
most of them by a long shot. So we've put ourselves on the same playing field as everybody else and we are going to earn from the grave digger with the community because we're community members too. That's all it was. We stepped up when everything was rung and crashed and we're no different than anybody else.
So we want to be able to offer this to anybody who wants to participate with us. And the goal would be is that if enough people understand this concept, then Beluna would get humongous and we would all be revenue sharing together. And then the smart play would be to also provide some LPs for
the pool and then you're literally sharing 100% of the revenues with the community. Like you're in both pools, we're trying to tell people and projects to go grab three of these and earn with us and grow with us because this system is the most inclusive system I can think of. And so the
other component is until there's like a stable coin counterpart to really unlock the DeFi part. Well, that's why we have the launch pad with the self-bonding mechanism that I need your help with so that when projects come through 25% of their mint is locked up, self-bonded for six months.
That also goes into the L people. This also is generating fees for the grave digger. It becomes a very symbiotic cycle almost. It's not a fully like self feeding, but it gets pretty close if enough people understand how we're trying to share this and do this.
Okay. And you would think that the holder, you would see the holders of these various projects, including Seattle, Thin Pumps and others that are kind of in the family of projects, so to speak, they would get some access to governance rights or maybe even proposing
additional ideas. Yeah, of course. That's the whole point. So like say another project, say a project owns one. Let's just say why foundry owned one skeleton punk. Well, why foundry now has the ability to come and make proposals on the grave digger that could help why foundry. Maybe you guys have strategies that you want to utilize specifically like an integrate
with the Grave Digger. Well, you own one, you could make a proposal saying, hey, we're community members and we're building this and we want to integrate. Does the community want that? Just like you guys asked this, remember when I asked you guys, I'm like, hey, do you guys want to join you? Well, we've got asked the community. I'm like, well, yeah, it makes good sense. So yeah,#
So, I know that these are crazy numbers, right? But, state or labs on April 12, have like 930 million in value locked in it, right? So, let's just say that it's a billion. Let's just hypothetically say there's a billion there. And right now, the other thing that I'm going to talk about is the
APY on staking is 14%, so that's 140 million and our performance fee from that is 10%. So that's 14 million that the Grave digger would produce in a year, right? And 30% of that will go to the skeleton punks and the revenue shares. And if we say that, say there's 3500 skeleton punks that are staked.
Right, and say there's 1200 wallets that had the three plus more system and for a total of 3,500. Well at that rate, each skeleton pump is paying $1,200 per year. So if you have three, I mean, if we can show the community like, look, why are we borrowing or against any other asset that's not
100% putting it back into the community like if you're taking it out of the system, why am I borrowing on that? I doesn't even make sense. So if enough people understand that and we could become the next stator, right, for an auto compounder, well, then man, we really are unrepairing our community and everybody who's associated with us.
For real like we're sharing if we could get to a billion dollars in total lock value our protocol is sharing 14 million dollars 9.8 to the LP pool and 4.2 to the to the skeleton pump it skeleton pumped out right and so now we have this other component with the launch pad and to me this is like
like the kicker, like to have NFT retail not be afraid to make projects on your platform because they know that if these guys mess up that they're going to have like a cool like 20, 30,000 to come pick up and either go prosecute these people or or to just carry on with the project. Like to me, this becomes a very attractive system to become a part of.
Yeah, absolutely. No, I think we talked before. There's some things to work out. I think we're very close to putting these pieces together and doing something pretty amazing. When I first started talking with you or thinking about, I was here
about NFT switch and the possibility of having, you know, I mean, we've all been through some crappy situations and rugs with different NFT marketplaces and honestly, like, there's some that are better than others and then, you know, the sort of like scam
me preferential treatment or you're kind of at the very least you're at the mercy of them for when you want to launch your project and the timing and getting their support. And so there's some gatekeeping there. That concept of having, you know, I love the like peer to peer.
aspect of peer to peer, but with the security, the safety. You know that you're dealing with something real. The other thing that NFT switch does is it doesn't allow you to make deals if you're not both holders in the collection already.
So we protect the barrier of entry into the market because, you know, personally, my own opinion is if it's a closed sale, it's none of your business. Like I really believe that, right? Even even even even if it wasn't between two people who didn't bore both holders. Like that's the truth. I believe that.
But to keep the integrity of the NFT projects because to their value is their community and if you're not buying in on the open floor price and you're circumventing that then then you're cheating and kind of stealing from the community that you're joining. You know what I mean? So so for us to have it be that buyers and sellers can only broker deals and communities or projects that they're
are both holders in, that does a couple of things. It allows them to be able to make friends freely in this community and not have to be afraid of being scammed. And that will make a more vibrant NFT community. And people will talk about it and people will want to join. You know what I mean? Like that's like the ones that people have in fun in. Those are the ones you want to participate in.
Yeah, for sure. Now what I was thinking is the sort of like NFT launch pad sort of concept. So could you have the ease of like the sort of partnership and ease of launching your collection, but it's not
a gatekeeper sort of relationship with a marketplace and a centralized team. It's more of a peer-to-peer. Like the user experience and the value to the projects that want to use it is the same, but it's more of a community and peer-to-peer thing as opposed to
the centralized thing. I think that that's something I really haven't seen to that level. There's benefits to centralization. You're able to organize and have that release roadmap that every project gets some time and the sun at the appropriate time.
you know, the resources when they need it, the help when they need it for working through some of the issues. Like, could you have something like that that's just more centralized and same sort of benefits, but it's not a centralized team that you're working with and it's all on chain and you can, you know, it's more trustless.
I think that's always the goal. And I think right now also we have to be careful in any size market, but especially in these small enough tea markets, it's really important to us that any of the projects that launch, we're going to bet them. To us, we've been running
We're putting our name on a project. We require the cell phone. If they want us to launch them, there might be more in depth from us because we've been through it.
pushing this on anybody who's attached to us at all. You know, if we think anything's weird, see ya, don't even come here. Like, I have no problem just turning people away who give me that weird feeling. You know what I mean? Like, it's really important that right now in this time that nobody gets wrecked from the things that we do.
Yeah, absolutely. And I, Ray and I have talked quite a bit about reputational NFTs and it seems like that you're already, already on your way there with the sort of like, hey, we have to both be holders and there's some level of trust that you're actually a part of the project. We've been thinking quite a bit
about how to take that further and the possibilities there. Almost an NFT version of the subdowels concept. You've got your dowel and then you have working groups within the dowel. Could you have different NFTs that represent
maybe a particular role and maybe at a certain point, at a certain point you could split that NFT, like so say I've got one person that has the marketing sort of role within this DAO and they're doing the marketing work and at a certain point they want
wants to the work gets beyond one person, well, they could fractionalize that one marketing, you know, responsibility into multiple NFTs and then they have a team, you know, that it all rolls up through like fractionalized NFTs. And maybe there's a branch off of that that's doing
very specifically Twitter stuff and they need to hire two people on instead of one you could fractionalize the fractionalized NFT and then just have this kind of organic like branching out. I have a quick question. So if we hypothetically say we had this advertising or marketing role and that was rep
by the NFT, like you said, if we fractionalize this NFT, who is picking them up? How are they getting distributed? How do you know that the person who's receiving said NFT will do the role of NFT and that get that reward? How are you ensure that?
Yeah, that's something that Ray, do you have comments on that? Yeah, I was just gonna say it's like
the same way as any multi-sig, like when you put people on a multi-sig you expect them to sign it, right? So you can remove people from that or you can you can recombine it. The way I think a fractionalized NFT would work is that you
actually deposit the NFC into a contract and then the people who were recipients on the other end of that contract would basically have a vote to behave or to enact a
things based on the NFT in that contract. So you'd have to be self-policing. There's nothing you can do when you get things down to a human factor other than
you know, remove the humans that aren't participating. Man, that is really my goal as we are trying to systematically remove the humans who aren't not participating. Get them out of here.
Yeah, they'd have to be mechanisms to like recombine some of those NFTs or to cut some of them or reclaim. I don't know, but that's something to
Yeah, I was gonna say basically the way we figured it would be done is the same way a multi-sick can vote to distribute funds or multi-sick can vote to do whatever they want with the contents of that multi-sick the multi-sick
I couldn't hear shit for a minute if you guys can hear me.
Yeah, we can hear you. I don't know if you can. There we go. Yeah, I want to I'll ask you there. Right here. Could you repeat that last? Yeah, so what you do is you'd have the multi the multi sig would be like the the people who the the contract was the NFT contract was essentially distributed to and what they could do the same
way they would vote on a spend or anything else is they would actually just vote to reconstitute the NFT basically burn the authority that exists and then reissue that authority to different addresses or to you know some of the same addresses but then change some of the addresses that were no longer participatory.
that's a pretty clear way to do it. I just didn't understand if they were being sold or if Peter could just buy them or you're fractionalizing them. I think these would be more, I think we could get into the ones that are sold and the governance power there of just like, hey, I'm a general community member, they should be the
that are doing the decisions on who's doing this work and who do we choose to represent us for marketing or who do we choose to represent us for whatever roles are available. But I think it's two different things. This is really looking at could you use NFTs?
as almost a very flexible sort of multi-sig alternative and be able to like a reputation all sort of NFT and there could be some overlap there possibly but yeah for the
So the voting rights and some of the options I'm really excited about what why Foundry has for the MVP even on the possibilities there. If you participate and get one of the YFD NFTs that represent a share ownership of
the vault. There's some really cool possibilities with doing some additional proposals based off of that if you're a group. We have a pretty cool novel voting. I hate to
I think I'll vote in tokens, but voting rights that you get, voting tickets that you get when you put up a proposal for only that group that is funded, a particular vault. They could put up additional, obviously they use that mechanism to vote, is this project
the milestones, is it doing what we intended it to do, is it ready to launch? They're using it to make all of those decisions, of course, what they funded. But then I think even beyond that, there's some possibilities for, hey, this is a kind of group, you know, a
funding group that wants to vote on any decision. So say like we get to the point where it's not just a vault, it's an actual collection you're launching or some other sort of dab, like some project, like a full project that's funded through YFD, then they could have essentially their own
like specific governance options and it's all on chain. There's no like off chain snapshots, whoever the holder is gets the, you know, voting tokens to put in for that particular proposal. And once they're used for that proposal, then they're, they're used up. So it's very specifically like,
like a per proposal sort of thing. As I understand it, and maybe Ray can talk a little bit more and provide some clarity there, but I think it's really cool. It'll be just additional options that you'll have for managing these groups.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting stuff. I mean, we're looking at doing, I think, skeleton punks is doing something similar. I think Ares Protocol is doing it, but essentially, wretching the control of governance away from the validators and bringing it to a more local level through vaults and through some of these mechanisms through LDS
and other options. But yeah, through YFD, essentially, the participants have vaults and the participants of proposals will have, you know, be able to manage their own localized governance for the activities. I think the word we're kind of playing around with right now is
I can't remember it, but it starts with an eye. Yeah, basically having these localized pieces basically kind of control their own destiny. Essentially, I'll think of the word. I can't remember it.
Yeah, so imagine a whole NFT collection launched using these mechanisms and then which that will require, you know, as it stands for MVP, our NFTs are going to be just kind of like one one image for all. So it's kind of like a, you know,
a one of 100 limited art prints sort of thing. But once we have the ability to add in additional features for whatever collection you want to launch, then all of a sudden you have, I've launched this collection of 1000 NFTs.
And now they have a proposal process that they can use for their local governance. They can use these voting tokens that they can use for different proposals that are put up on what the Dow wants to do. So it's kind of like a Dow
sub-dial sort of governance process that's baked in. Initiatives was the word I was thinking of. Initiatives. Initiatives, I couldn't think of it either man. I was sitting here like what is that? He got there.
I feel like I knew exactly what he was talking about and I couldn't come up with the word either. I was like, "Oh, I know what it is." The way the wife found herself is moving and I just got feedback on that that we're incorporating into the UI is basically you have the vaults, but now we have initiatives. In some of these proposals, they're not vaults.
but they may be other particular actions, they may be an initiative to initialize an NFT collection or to fund a charity event or to do something totally tangential to DeFi and essentially people will be able to take initiatives and raise funds for those initiatives on WIFO.
I mean, it's all about these tools, these self-governing tools that I'm most excited about. I'm not gonna lie. You know, that's been the biggest problem in crypto. With crypto works fine, right? It's the governing bodies that are need to be addressed that it's very hard to solve.
Yeah, I mean, governance can be messy and there's pros and cons like I said earlier to centralization for being able to organize around a specific vision and being able to get things done. But obviously we've seen tons of, you know, there's tons of negatives there and you're kind of like, what's the point if you're rehashing what we
already have like why are you using blockchain? I mean, I think the real power with what we're doing is pushing in the future like how can you have better options to really leverage the power of decentralized communities, decentralized talent, because you know, the sort of like crowdfunding
Like supercharged crowd sourcing sort of possibilities that come with some of this tech But you do it in a trustless way so there's no one who's gatekeeping or you know skimming off of the top or You know exactly where your funds are going and what they're used for and you have a say and what happens and
And mechanisms to claw back the funds if something's happening that the community doesn't like. I just think it's going to be, you look at it in isolation. I think it's really cool that you look at it with partners of different projects, such as yourself that are doing
amazing things because it's all open source. The front end, the back end, I think it's going to be, I think whoever in the community, the larger community that builds on top of it, are just going to come up with additional things that we can't even imagine right now. It's exciting.
Sorry, I'm at type 1 second at the same time. I can only do one thing at a time, apparently. Oh yeah, that's me too. I just, I pace and talk. Otherwise, I will completely just rug myself trying to say something.
Man, I can't believe everybody's so dead right now in the market. Is everyone really upset about FTX? Is that what's happening? Is it still happening?
Yeah, I mean, I've noticed that it seems like a hit. I mean, things have been pretty quiet. I mean, I think this time of year, you know, there's different holidays and stuff too. So it's likely to get a little bit
a little bit more dead as well, but.
I don't know. We've been so busy just kind of heads down building stuff that, yeah, it's a--
I don't know, have you experienced the same on some of your spaces?
I mean, I've definitely noticed a little bit of like less wind in the sales. Let's put it like that, right? And I, but I think it's going to be too full. I think people, you know, people definitely got hurt, but I think that when we see who these big players are and like the stuff that they've been doing, I think
that, personally, I think that terror is going to come out rip in. I really do. I think that once people see Doke Wan was honorable and went down with his ship and what these scammy dudes have been up to, well, DeFi is the solution to my opinion, right? That is the only answer. So I think that we're bound
some good stuff, but I think it's still a few months away, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, we'll get back there. I mean, you can't argue that it was a hit, you know, from a public perspective. And it's really hard for me to... I've had the conversation a few times.
already, you know, people that see the news and hear about yet another big crypto thing, you know, implosion blow up, whatever. It's hard for them to see the distinction between some of this stuff, especially the distinction between like centralized or decentralized. Now I go, I'm essentially like, hey,
You know, the pharino situation, it's really not that much different than that, you know, just a different, it's like a crypto wrapper to any of the sort of like startup scams that could happen, you know, it just happens to be in the crypto space. This isn't an indictment on the whole space in general, especially deep eye.
It really, if anything, it shows the opposite. The need to do more of the stuff that we're working on and DeFi as opposed to, you know, concerns there. But it's hard to have that conversation with people that just aren't in the space. Um, you can have to take a few steps back and do some education. Um,
And then, you know, they're, they're excitement. I think we'll get there. We'll get to the point where we're using these mechanisms on the back end and on the front end, there's a whole group of people that don't even need to know some of these concepts. It's just like, hey, I can be a part of this community and I can get value from it. And I know that I
I can trust that it's not, you know, my funds are being used in the way that it's being used. Just think about like from a charity perspective or grants or things like that, like just out in the world, outside of crypto, even like the power of, I'm contributing this on a regular basis and I get to see like exactly where this
is going or using blockchain for supply chain functions. I can see exactly where my products are going, who all is involved. Is there something shady going on or not? I think we'll get there. Maybe a few years out there, but I think
get there quickly for people that get interested back on the space and I'm optimistic. I hope that this is the final big shakedown from everything that went down and we can just build from here. One of the things that I think is relevant to notice is that even during
this whole time, this whole like 10 months of like, you know, gut shops to the market. People are not fleeing like they did the last time. Right? People are just trying to figure out new ways to hunker down, fill, produce. People are still like, yeah, the technology is too good. We're not just going to abandon this. Like enough people understand now.
And so what I think might happen this next time is that we might hit that adoption curve in the next bull run. Maybe it might be the next next one. I don't know, but we might catch it in the next one. And if that happens, man, we'll be ready. Yeah, I mean, I think we've gotten to the point where like that we've cut things down so
And I think it'll just grow from here and every time.
Hopefully, there's not much more implosion or big events like this or packs or anything. But I think as you go forward, anytime that stuff happens, you'll just see the core group that sticks with it and knows the value in it, just grow and grow. You know, I mean, it'll ebb and flow. You're always going to get the people that
come in because it's the FAD and there's some new thing that maybe it's social tokens or maybe it's a game FI or something like that. The Marines a bunch of people in on a transitory basis but then things happen and it doesn't work out and then the tide goes back out.
every time the tide goes out, it'll be there's more and more substance there and more and more people that are there for the long haul. I think you're seeing that with some of the promising numbers on some of the, I'm not saying anything about I don't talk price or anything specifically, but just numbers
wallet holders that have held through this. I mean it just like goes up and up like I think as this stuff happens there's more and more kind of true believers that kind of stick in there with it. They're just like I you know I know that the price there's volatility in the price I'm not gonna dump it you know every time there's a scare I'm just holding it.
like you're talking about me there, my latest dump of all my stuff. That's different. I don't know if you like I think it's the barbell investing strategy where I mean if you're building in the space and that's your livelihood I think you can make the case
for like I need to have stuff outside of the space from a diversity perspective, just to be honest, and I'm not saying like as somebody who has been kind of all in crypto, I mean, I think it certainly makes it that's that's being smart and I'm definitely not
not saying like hedging strategies or whatever, you don't have to always be holder, just holding it, getting out at the right time and taking profits and then getting back in lower for some of those automated strategies. That's some of the stuff that we're all working on.
So yeah, it wasn't directed towards E-Ray and I don't mean anything derogatory about people that aren't just like holding no matter what. Especially if you're working in the space, you have to take part, like you got to live, you know, if you can't, if you're paying
on it, you have to take something and transition some of that to something that we just don't have the rails across the globe to be able to use directly some of this for your groceries or whatever.
All right, anything else we wanted to talk through about NFTs? It's great conversation, JD kind of advancing some of the stuff we've talked about before. Like I said, we're heads down getting to the MVP, but I would love to have
a conversation with you offline about that partnership at some point soon and just kind of talk through next steps and details.
Not I mean for not for me not on my end guys, you know, I just was coming to hang out because I love this shit, you know
Yeah, I mean, the only thing I would say is that we've really got to work to, you know, and tear out to bring consensus to what we're doing. There needs to be at the most basic level. There needs to be some organization and we can't wait for other people to do it. I think we just need to actually
step forward as the builders in the space and say, you know, what are we doing? What is the general community want to do? And then go forward with that and work with the validators to actually get some momentum going otherwise. It's just stuff is just dying on the vine there.
Yeah, I agree. If we need to, I once again, unified behind whatever the mission is going to be because we had a very clear directive in V1, you know, with the decentralized companies decentralized money. And now we have a new pivot. I think we're going to be with these alliances.
these liquidity alliances and it's opportunity for people to come and plug in their own chain and kind of leverage against terror. This will be the new way to get liquidity to the chain, right? I'm assuming. And from there, you know, once again, we need to have a mission, like what is our unifying mission goal?
I need to be defined, I think.
Yeah, and so nobody wants to deal with that. So let's just define it. That's what I mean, yeah, there's no central authority. So let's just start.
I think there's so many, so many key things that a lot of really good projects align on as far as what they want to see for the future of the space. I agree. You're like, let's align on what's our kind of very simple.
So, you know, it's a simple key, you know, kind of idealistic, you know, things that we're going to stick to no matter what and there may be disagreements about, you know, specifics on, or different
focuses for different protocols, but like with the sort of alliance and almost like a core charter of like, this is what we want to see the space, you know, the whole decentralized trustless, you know, ecosystem.
Yeah, I think we just like build the coalition around that. Like what are those things that we haven't commented before? Yeah, just started the most basic thing.
What do we all agree on without any contention and then start there because we can't go beyond that. There's too much friction. So we just have to start basic and be okay with it.
Well, what's my pleasure? I know it's a pretty small group. There's a lot going on. Ray, you had a holiday that you're, you know, in driving around and stuff. I appreciate you joining.
So yeah, we'll call it. We definitely pick up the conversation later. Thanks a lot.
Sounds good. Have a good.