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Trump Just Declared War On The Only Person Trying To Save Us From AI
Recorded: March 4, 2026 Duration: 1:08:14Space Recording
Full Transcription
and survive. War is a murder, lives will be slain. You're fighting the devil, murder's
okay. War is a murder, they're called casualties. There ain't no better than we're the good
knights. Let's talk about dead people. I mean not dead people. The dead don't feel honor,
they don't feel that brave. They don't feel the things, they're lucky if they got graves.
Call your dead mother, ask her when she died.
It's a deathly silence on the other line.
The dead don't talk, but the children don't forget.
So in twenty short years you can live to regret.
War isn't murder, There's money at stake.
Hell, even Kushner agrees. It's good a real estate.
War isn't murder. Ask Netanyahu.
He's got a song for that. He's got a bomb for you.
War isn't murder. It's an old desert faith.
It's a nation state sanctioned righteous hate.
Let's talk about dead people
I mean our dead people
War is a murder
It's the vengeance of God
If you can't see their bodies
They don't blow when they rot
And the flies don't storm
And the children don't cry
Before is a murder
Good men don't die
So in a short 20 years
Will you vacation the strip?
Try not to think about the dead.
And help my strength.
War isn't murder.
Let's all give thanks.
I saw it all in a movie.
Give it up for Tom Hanks.
War isn't murder.
They don't ship out the poor.
And the bullets they fire ain't part of the cure.
War isn't murder.
Land is a right.
But the bank's called dibs.
It's something you can't fight.
Let's talk about dead people.
I mean, not dead people.
The dead don't feel honored.
They don't feel that brave
They don't feel a vim
They're lucky if they got graves
Call your dead mother
Ask her when she died
It's a deathly silence on the other line
Would you look at that
We're live
I'm all spun out this week
That was Jesse Wells singing us in with War Isn't Murder.
Felt like an appropriate one.
Yeah, a little bit more chaotic than usual.
2026.
So what do we have this week?
We have Trump threatening to destroy the banking system's grip on crypto.
We've got Anthropic, the company behind, well, the AI,
I hope most all of you are using right now,
being labeled as a national security threat,
refusing to bomb the knee,
you can tell, there you go,
Freudian slip,
bend the knee,
while then still being used to commit atrocities
in the Middle East.
And we've got a 19-year-old who,
yet again,
these people just keep making me feel more and more
like a worthless piece of shit.
Built basically a nothing shit company,
if anyone's ever tracked calories in their life,
being acquired by $40 million by my fitness pal.
And today, granted me, I'm joined by Lucas,
otherwise known as at Hyper Online,
by Handle by Nature.
If you've spent any time
on crypto Twitter,
I've done my best to write
a good intro for you here, Lucas.
I've been excited about this one.
You will have seen his tweets.
In fact, well, I hope you have.
He's categorically
one of those rare people
who manages to maintain
being genuinely funny
while still having
a hell of a lot of substance beneath
to make you feel ashamed of how unintelligent you are and he also follows in the line of god
tier shit posters that we've been bringing on uh every week it's almost like we have to keep
setting the bar higher to to get people who we enjoy even more so um welcome to the show Lucas
how are you man thanks for coming on thanks for having me on guys it's been uh pretty good I think uh
dude I really hate the new handle the hyper online switch like but the problem is I got it through
the verified like handle swapper thing so like I now need to go and like I can't just undo it I
have to send them a request like I have to specifically like email like Nikita Beer's
subordinate and say like please please give me my old handle back
because they throw it like it's accessible and i can do that but like it's it's a manual system
that i have to go through now so i'm waiting for them to give me my old one back so by the time
anyone re-watches this it will hopefully be at schizo freak still but like i just i switched to
the eagle avatar and like seeing this all undercase thing like
the eagle avatar is very clearly like it's supposed to be all caps like it's yelling at you
like it's an old man right like that's the energy that i need to be giving off and i can't have
undercase letters anywhere around this a man as pedantic as ourselves all i don't fucking love it i um as i say i've spun out
because uh we've said many many times granted me have voiced our displeasure at our our streaming
service that josh and henry of matt i must say built very very well for us we've got a fantastic
fucking production team in the background here but they've got like i've got so many pieces of
shit all over the desk that i'm like trying to get my head around constantly they just feel like explaining granddad like explaining facetap my granddad
while hosting a podcast that's talking about like frontier tech and crypto so um they've also tried
trying to stop you you know trying to stop using foul language as much as we can on this while
still continuing to be ourselves yeah that's been very hard for me, I have to say.
You wouldn't know it,
but I'm constantly running a very, very high level of filtering.
There's a lot that doesn't make the pass.
Is there?
It only recently has gone up, right?
And it's just like, I can't say anything, dude.
There's 400 ethnic groups that I can't say a single thing about now.
This is crazy
yeah we um we have the tendency as well because obviously we're recording live and uh people have
started like clipping live while before we've even finished the show and i'm like jesus that's like
dedication to the cause but it's also a lot of pressure because when we do this i always just
feel like i'm in a room talking with like you and gran or whoever it may be but yeah there's a there's a very real audience
out there that are waiting on a time delay just in case anything does slip out you know
yeah i will say if you want to be true if you want to be true raccoon weasel scumbags about this
what you could do is record it ahead of time and then go and pretend that you're live streaming
because if you're not doing any sort of audience interaction,
like if you're not talking with the comments and stuff,
people don't notice the difference between you having a pre-recorded thing
and you actually doing it live.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We were streaming live to Twitter at one point
and we had comments and we were interacting with people and shit like that.
But then found we were too engrossed in the conversation
and then a lot of the API stuff changed. So we were like, right, fuck it. It but then found we were too engrossed in the conversation and then like a load of the api stuff changed so we were like right fuck it it's
live can't be us figuring it out people can comment on youtube but realistically like we
think we think about that most sometimes the commenters are awesome and like when we were
doing streams for a long time like we eventually built up a follower base of people who like
they somehow caught like every single runner for like two months like they were just
yes god tier traders of all time but like there was like a two-month period at
the beginning of that where you're finding the good commenters and all of the comments would be
something like what are you doing today like oh like i'm bored like yeah you're just like this is
not like nobody wants to hear the result of what this conversation will be
right yeah yeah yeah it's a funny one isn't it because like it's twitch i mean we are i'm of an
age where twitch is like pass me by a big time and like the whole like culture of that is quite
alien to me which as as you say like people who just want to sit and spend six hours watching
someone like play call of duty or whatever like that's a very strange thing for me that like people
i think that's more of a companion thing i've said that yeah i think podcasts are more companion than
people would like to admit particularly live streams yeah yeah yeah yeah i'd agree uh anyway
right we should talk about stuff so just getting into it first thing this week that we kind of wanted to
you'll notice if you've come in after the fact as josh and henry have told me the way the packaging
will have led you in here is that trump has kind of said well i guess that the quiet part out loud
here and i say that but it's not something that he's been made he's been quiet about even since
before he came into office that if the u.s doesn't back crypto the industry moves somewhere else and
we know what that means with it you know it's the constant battle between like china and this whole geopolitical
financial arms race and everything that comes with that so um that's where i want to like jump into
it really fellas like what what have you thought of this and grant i'm gonna like give that to you
first and lucas you could maybe add some color after and i can add some key facts if we need to
because you kind of i think the tweet that Trump said was he was like,
I've got the note here.
It's like, we're not going to allow banks
to undermine our powerful crypto agenda.
And kind of this is coming into the conversation
about the stable coin legislation
under congressional review.
And should stable coins be able to pay yield?
If they do,
and they just completely outperform banks
and all that kind of shit,
do they just basically become totally obsolete which speaking to two guys here that i hazard a
guess what your opinion would be but uh yeah grant what what have you made of this if overall
yeah i mean you've seen um there's been obvious pushback from the banks and there needs to be a
compromise at some point and the banks are obviously
looking at what potential
yields could be getting offered from
some of these kind of like new banks and
like these new finance apps and
if there's pure regulatory
clarity across the board like some of these DeFi apps
are in like real really good situations
where the banks just cannot match the rates
that are going to be getting offered
on chain
so clarity goes through where the banks just cannot match the rates that are going to be getting offered on chain.
So clarity goes through.
There's obviously been pushback by the powers that be.
But at the same time, maybe it's just buying some favor.
Like markets have been down only since, well, Melania and Trump launched effectively with probably the demographic that potentially got them elected,
the largest super park in the industry that got them elected the largest super pack
in the industry that got them elected
so maybe there's some buying of the favour
maybe it's
you know
just trying to like stand up for the little guy
I don't necessarily believe that to be honest but
I think it's going to pass through
I don't think both sides are going to be
completely happy with how it goes through
but like I've seen David Sachs come out and so that's probably a good compromise where both sides walk
away feeling a little bit hard done by so um it's never going to like lean totally in the bank's
favor it's never going to lean totally in the more crypto native um like cam's favor so we'll just
have to see how it plays out but uh i think it's like probably one of those throwaway comments that has a little bit of weight to it that the industry should latch on to because
there's nothing else really happening yeah lucas any thoughts before i'd add a bit of color to this
i i think it's a little bit of a social issue here where it's like when when trump hadn't yet
burned a lot of his social capital and he starts supporting crypto you're like yeah wow this is awesome but now when it's like seeming more and more like the entire dnc is going to be
like very powerfully aligning against trump and everything that he's done and they might just like
you know it's like i don't think necessarily that this happens but there's a non-zero chance of like
total blue wave dnc victory for the next like 50 years after 28. And like, you really don't want Trump supporting
crypto if that happens, right? Because these people are just meaningfully going to polarize
against crypto because of Trump and what he's done with it. And now it's probably like totally
over in that situation. So that's a little bit scary. I mean, I do think that like Latin America
is basically moving entirely to neobanks because they're just better for rates. So like, I do think that like Latin America is basically moving entirely to neobanks because they're they're just better for rates.
So like I think in some sort of like a fair economy where the market does actually just value the best rates at like the lowest risk, they are probably going to.
And I mean, a lot of this also might be due to like the security of Latin American banks compared to U.S. banks.
to us banks i'm not gonna i'm not gonna overlook that one but i like it does appear that they would
I'm not going to I'm not going to overlook that one.
take a decent chunk of the uh yield from actual banks if they're deployed so you're going to have
actual banks now have the uh anti-trump card in their cap that they can play when it comes to this
and i i don't know if that's going to be super great for crypto yeah but we're also in a bear
market so everything that we're saying right now is like obviously going to be super great for crypto. But we're also in a bear market.
So everything that we're saying right now is obviously going to be more bearish than it should be.
So stay tuned for two years.
Yeah, I'm conscious that we don't have negative takes on the back. Obviously, we can, but as you quite rightly say, I'm hyper-conscious of the general sentiment.
And it's one thing that i've been thinking about a
lot as well i think many people have been that pre-trump administration coming in it was like
he obviously appealed to the the crypto audience and was like this is what i'm going to do then
just completely like took it for a ride and now we've kind of had this 180 which let's be honest
kind of no surprise to to many many people but then we've had this like sort of 180 you're getting at here where you guys are saying you know you kind of it's becoming like
or certainly is putting it like it's a social issue like the tweet is the genius act is being
threatened and undermined by the banks and that is unacceptable we are not going to allow it
the u.s needs to get market structure done asap americans should earn more money on their money
the banks are hitting record profits and we are not going to allow them to undermine
our powerful crypto agenda that will end up going to China
and other countries if we don't get the Clarity Act taken care of.
The Genius Act was the USA's first big step
to make the United States the crypto capital of the world
and getting the Clarity Act done is the next step to finish the job
and most importantly, keep this big powerful industry in our country.
I'm not going to read the rest.
But...
I think him more than anyone recogn recognizes the power of that global buy pressure
on the dollar if stablecoins can just permeate across the world
an order of magnitude higher than they are currently.
And the only way that that continues to proliferate is if that passes through
and speculation is allowed to take hold.
Because more speculation, more demand to come on chain, more opportunities
like the
Looks like he's dropped out completely there
Well what I was going to say to kind of
wait for Grant to come back on Lucas is the
I really
want to like double click on that point that you've
said because there's two ways to
approach this isn't there?
It's like,
yes,
the first question is whoever wins,
like the kind of crypto infrastructure sort of wins the geopolitics of it all.
And everything that comes with like China and the CBDC and all this kind of
thing.
But again,
that's the key point that was like the landmine for me.
It definitely feels like crypto is again becoming like a sacrificial lamb
instead of like, it's lose, lose here. You know, it definitely feels like crypto is again becoming like a sacrificial lamb.
Instead of like, it's lose-lose here.
You know, after 2028, if it's like a democratic landslide until the end of time,
this is going to be, we are not only going to be where we were with Gensler and everything,
but it's going to be even worse because like we are going to be in the boat of like, you know, the Trump team per se se which is not necessarily true at all across the
board and then you get fucked regardless which is like just drastically unfair yeah it's like i mean
i i think a lot more of these things from a policy perspective like i think it doesn't actually it is
just like the tech doesn't matter right like everything else matters the social alignments
matter quite a lot and so like when i look at like headlines like this, I'm not really thinking about like, oh, like how do TradFi rails implement like stable coins to
like give optimal banking yield? Like that doesn't really matter at all. It's more like,
which parties are we politically pissing off here? And I see an announcement like that. And I'm like,
it seems like we're pissing like we're pissing a lot of people off for not really that much gain.
And I'm like, then it's just bad, right?
If we piss people off for some gain, then it's fine.
Yeah, Grant, you're back.
Do you want to finish your thought before we move on from this?
Yeah, I was just saying that, like,
the collective buy pressure on the dollar
through USD-denominated stablecoins
and Tether and Trump buddying up
and how powerful Circle is now is it's like a
america first type you've got usdta or whatever it's called from from tether as well which is
like america first stable coin and all that kind of shit but like people are really fickle you
zuckerberg does it every fucking election cycle he will kind of see the writing on the wall see
who's most likely to actually uh be elected and then at the
11th hour we'll just try and buddy up and close up like it gets closer than as physically possible
it happens every single time because he's early like he was the first billionaire to last time
actually like the rest of them zuck actually meaningfully gained social capital because he
flipped earlier than everyone else so like while everybody else waited
until trump actually got in to start supporting trump everyone saw that as disingenuous but
zuckerberg came out and he was like a full like year ahead and everyone was like you know he's
really he's legitimate like he really believes in this shit like he's out here in his american flag
like swim trunks like surfing on the fourth of. Like, I think he had a change of heart.
Yeah.
And then he just tried to like,
he tried to target the most, you know,
stereotypical demographic by like getting balls deep in Jiu-Jitsu,
like going in Volkanovsky's corner at the UFC.
It's just like, I will. The parody of like the American right wing.
Yeah.
If you ask like the most out of touch liberal,
like what would you describe the American right wing as? Right. And the most out of touch liberal like what would you
describe the american right wing as right and they're gonna be like dude you need to be fighting
and like wearing american flag swing trunks and like shooting off fireworks and you need to gain
weight like you need to gain like 200 pounds yeah he fucking ticked every single box um right
moving on this is i guess like what i wanted to be like the key thing this week.
We talked about this on last week's pod with Big D.
And essentially we knew that the Pentagon, Pete Hegseth, had kind of gave Anthropic
until Friday to like bend the knee or fuck off, essentially.
It was like throwing all kinds of threats at them.
And Anthropic basically said, you know,
stood up two red lines, no autonomous weapons,
no mass surveillance of US citizens.
And this kind of falls deeply in line with everything that Dario,
who is the CEO, co-founder of Anthropic,
and just a little bit of context here
and on the assumption that people might not know this he was the vp of research at open ai left in
like i don't know what year it was um a while back yeah well a while back now because he was kind of
concerned that they weren't taking ai safety seriously enough which again is like further
credence in itself because he's continuously backing up what he said that he would do throughout.
As a result of that,
and then refusing to play ball,
it's been no surprise that this administration
has kind of gone, right,
well, going to be all guns blazing.
And he said that he couldn't in good conscience
agree to the demands that they were putting on them.
So Trump ordered all federal agencies
to immediately cease use of the anthropic technology.
He haggs a designated anthropic supply chain risk
to national security,
basically saying that any company doing business
with the Pentagon must now certify
that it doesn't use Claude.
And then on the same day,
Claude was used during targeting and intelligence
during the strikes on Iran.
Now, obviously that's quite funny.
I'm being relatively facetious, but was uh like a six month phase out granted so we were
saying just before we went live lucas that you can do a lot of damage in six months yeah you can
invade a ton of countries in six months and trump also someone i don't know if this was fake or not
but i saw some sort of a communication from trump that someone shared that was like it's it's feeling like he's on a roll
like he says that this is all going so well like venezuela to iran like he wants to keep the motion
going right effectively and it was in suggestion that he's just going to turn over every other
country's uh form of government right which like probably fake but also if i was trump right now venezuela
just happened i just did iran i'd be like dude like i'm feeling good bro like i'm like 90 years
old but i'm this is the time of my life man yeah i suppose he's on a hot streak and so before we
go back to all of the fallout and because there's more color here with like Sam Altman and opening eye
and like some really funny shit with like...
There's some really good drama between Anthropik and opening eye.
Yeah, it's fucking golden.
But like, I do want to get your takes on the fact that
you've got the administration saying, right,
it's actively banning Claude and the use of it and everything.
And then on the same day, it's like using it to just obliterate Iran
and parts of the same day it's like using it to just obliterate iran and like parts of
the middle east and stuff but what i want to know is what does that say about how deep ai is already
in military infrastructure i think i think the answer to a lot of this question like these types
of questions are just like the u.s government and its infrastructure in terms of software are just
like they're very big and slow
right like uh saying oh they had to use this for this it's like they have to use it because they
employ a bunch of people who like it will genuinely take them two years to be retrained on like a new
type of software uh ai i think you could probably sub out like a different chat bot but that's
probably like it's my understanding that clod in order to interface with government systems it requires a specific hardware setup right like in order to
actually tie in the servers required by the u.s government to access clod you need that they had
to make special server banks so that the government could access them right so like they actually
cannot just like hot switch in open ai because they don't have the server banks.
Like the U.S. government's been working with Anthropic for a very long period of time.
And so they've built up that infrastructure over time.
Like there was a very specific contract required for all of this stuff when they started working together.
And the other thing is you were saying that Dario had left open AI earlier because of things like uh the safety considerations
uh there was a contract where anthropic put a bid in it was a hundred million dollar bid
i want to say 2025 maybe to be the provider for the u.s government's autonomous drone systems at
some point so this is like this is kind of my stance with dario uh i think he's full-on just
like effective altruist spf mode and he will he will try to seem very good and nice and whatever
and he will use that as a justification for a lot but like i think overwhelmingly his goal is to get
tied into the u.s government in a way that allows him to have like massive power by dictating what the U.S. actually can and cannot do. I think he's like an insane power hungry pragmatist when it comes down
to it. And I don't trust him at all. I am not saying like I super trust Hegseth either. Like
I think this guy is basically like a jock retard, right? But it is. It's like you have two very
unreliable narrators doing this very public mediation of a dispute here.
And you're watching what's happening and you're just like, I don't really think that I have the full story on anyone's end at this point.
And I think also someone might hear that and assume that I'm talking about like, oh, there's some this is all secret.
Like, you know, they're doing like secret mind games behind the scenes but i actually think
that what more likely happened is that there was some sort of a miscommunication between like
uh an account executive or something like that and the u.s government where because like this
issue of like autonomous drone control shouldn't even have been brought up given that like the
model can't do this right now right like we're publicly fighting over the ability of anthropic
to do uh to do autonomous control of drone swarms and stuff like that when they
don't have the ability. And like, I think this was literally like a sales guy talking about
like something that might be made in the future. And then like Hegseth sales guy, like Hegseth
doesn't know like how much of us drone infrastructure can be controlled by like whatever
LLM at this point, like this is just all people talking up the chain
and then like randomly saying nonsense in like a very big boomy voice and getting pissed off when
Dario doesn't respond. Like he's 17 minutes late to the meeting. So I don't know, man,
the whole thing is just like, uh, like I think everyone is ascribing a lot more like intelligence
to the reason why things happened. And I'm ascribing a lot of like, this was like errors
and like weird fumbles out of nowhere
and uh both parties involved are just kind of like fumbling around incompetently a bit
right interesting before the because the key thing that you brought up there which i want to
chat on which is also probably why you we were basically for context we had no fucking idea what
the title of the stream was going to be before like
about 30 seconds before we went live and i noticed that lucas kind of grimaced a little bit when we
went with the title that is like the only person trying to save ai and now he's told us about you
know now it makes sense because like it do you do you think that like um if this is like a
disingenuous brand personal brand positioning that he's not really like that
into altruism and realistically it's all just this trojan horse like inserting further into the system
it's a very first of all it's a genius tactic because like ai um anxiety and everything that
comes with that right now how can you not i think you would have to be like a fucking moron to not be slightly intimidated and worried about like the it's in involvement this is the ai safety grift
is like all ai safety boils down to like you should pay me half a million dollars to control
your ai systems and tell it what it can do or not right like that's always what it is so in the same way it's really interesting how sbf was like
the poster boy for crypto um what's what's even the word like crypto regulation and like hey you
know the larry david super bowl ad all the infamous shit that we've seen now and it was
really the same brand marketing man it was like we're the responsible adults in the house like
don't you want to trust us like like we are really thinking about these problems we care about and like anthropic has
been doing this in everything that they release like every single marketing communication is like
we've really considered the f and then they make the same decision as all the other ai labs right
like they do the same they're also putting in the bids on like the military contracts with like uh
the government alongside open ai right so like it's just this constant theater of ethics man so if if it's theater and if like the zero
altruism baked into like any of their motives whatsoever what what between you both and i'm
going to get like both takes here what does that where does that leave us and maybe there's another
question baked into this as well in terms terms of the ethical and, I guess,
safe ongoing development of AI
as we enter the period of autonomous weapons
and everything that comes with that
and the worry of them hallucinating and all this kind of shit.
Who have we got then to sort of actually make sure
that this shit is being developed properly?
Grants.
Nobody.
Nobody.
No one. You cananted. Nobody. Nobody. No one.
You can't.
You can't.
Because you're holding completely conflicting ideals
at the same time.
You can't have like a super race
with like the highest amount of capex
and private funding ever thrown at any sector
and have the appetite to do that
whilst also being trying to maintain this ideological
pursuit of super safe ai just doesn't work it's kind of like those two things are completely
conflicting like even ilia's company's called super like super safe super intelligence or some
bullshit like that ssi safe super intelligence inc like. Like he's the other like co-founder of OpenAI
back in the early days who left
because they all say it was from safety,
but at the same time,
there was also a lot of like strong arm from Elon,
like a lot of kind of like board,
just like board resolution to be solved and stuff like that.
I think there was a bit of a power struggle
and now they've both left
and Muriel left to start thinking machines
and they've both like raised Muriel left to start thinking machines.
And they've both like raised 2 billion precede,
which is fucking insane.
Wasn't thinking machines also like an enormous,
like you have a bunch of open AI employees leave.
They start this other thing.
They raise billions of dollars of funding and then like they do nothing. And then they come back,
like half the employees just returned afterwards.
They came back.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I truly, truly the grifting has moved from crypto to AI. Like that is, come back like half the employees just returned afterwards they came back yeah yeah like i truly
truly the grifting has moved from crypto to ai like that is that is my big takeaway it's like
i've watched all of the biggest scammers like they're pivoting at at the top now right and i
don't know for sure that this is like the generational top but in in history as it has gone
when crypto scammers say oh there's not enough blood for me to drink here i have to go to another
industry they like the locust people they are manage to destroy whatever that industry is that
they go to in like one to three months every single time i think uh good alexander groups now
yeah now like ai grifter is like uh i mean people probably dislike the people posting about AI at a similar level
of like how much they disliked crypto people in like 2024.
Yeah.
Yeah, you need to ban like breaking or it's over
or like you need to mute those phrases on the timeline.
Like people sharing like cloud skills
and different repos to install.
Like, it's just like,
do you realize how much fucking of an
attack vector that is for anyone who's like wanting to like disseminate malicious backdoors
across the full internet there are so many different ways that you can like like this
open claw thing like first of all it's like pretty like bad unoptimized code and yeah it is just like
you've given a gateway to clawed code like it's like clod code with a gateway that lets you text it sure but
like all that aside and the fact that it's like injecting like a bajillion tokens of prompting
into everything you put in like there's a lot of ways that you can use like an ai agent that has
full access to your system uh if you just give it access to something that like doesn't have
personal information on it right like i have mine on a media server it just truly doesn't matter if somebody hacks my media server right
like i do not care if somebody has access to 5 000 hours of me podcasting the worst you could
do with that is like make a bunch of epic video compilations of me so it doesn't hurt but instead
people will be like i'm going to do like the lowest leverage thing that like exposes me to
the most risk like i'm gonna going to give it my Gmail login.
Like I'm going to let it have access to like my universal login for every
fucking system in the entire world.
Right.
And they're like,
Oh my God,
like my life is ruined and it will take six months to recover my identity.
What are they going to do?
Deep fake you.
Deep fake you saying some wild shit.
Don't think that's going to give the context for those
who haven't because it's really really interesting that this sort of more cynical take on like the
way dario's building his personal branding around claude and Anthropic and let's not forget by the way it was only the other week that that guy wrote
that kind of Edgar Allan Poe fucking piece on how he was leaving Anthropic because he thought that
the world was in peril and all this kind of shit yeah which ended it with a poem ended it with a
poem which by the way is the company that apparently is like the most ethical development of this
technology at the minute so OpenAI signed the pentagon deal just like hours after anthropic was blacklisted uh with
like notably weaker safeguard language so you know we all know where this is going with sam altman is
the number one villain at the minute whether you believe that or not uh right so the that meant
that claude then hit the number one us app store number one app in the
app store should say which was the first time ever chat gpt uninstalls were up 295 percent
uh chat gpt one star reviews were up 775 percent in a single day anthropic's revenue run rate
exceeded 2.5 billion in february that more than doubled since the start of 26 claude even went
down on monday which i'm
sure we all felt because due to unprecedented demand um so now we have a villain and we have
we have a heel root for and i in it's all fucking theater go on lucas i am falling in line being
like you know that villain looks kind of based like he looks kind of based right now so that is this i'm
just like eternally the contrarian here so that is my bias on all this stuff interesting but i'm
i mean i honestly i'm gonna go i'll go full fucking bootlicker here i think that sam is
much more of a hero here than people are giving him credit for interesting uh and i think that a
lot of this comes down to the fact that like you have to contextualize frontier AI as this technology that can only be developed
in the United States, right? Like for whatever reason, it appears that every other country that
has tried to create a leading edge AI firm, they just can't work. Like China can do some kind of
okay open source stuff by distilling US models, right? And that's like the next closest. But
realistically, this is a U.S.-driven
industry. So this is this thing that for whatever reason, talent, like regulatory, etc., can only be
created in the U.S. And also everyone who's creating this technology is saying this is going
to be more powerful than nuclear weapons. It's going to be the most powerful technology in the
world, right? So if this is true, if you were to believe the people making this technology, the U.S. government basically has to centralize this somehow or regulate this
or integrate with it in some very, very deep way, right? I think this idea that you're going to
maintain something that is more dangerous than a nuclear weapon as a private company is like,
like it would be cool if that would happen. I would love a world if that could happen. i just don't believe in that world i think the u.s government will kill you if you
try to do that and so i think it's like if you want to have any influence whatsoever you do have
to play ball a little bit with the u.s government and i think dario did this spectacularly poorly
sam altman is like a weasel god man like uh i mean this man i fully think that he's out here
like did you see that
interview where he's talking about uh there was a whistleblower there's an open ai whistleblower
he got hit in an interview with like so the whistleblower was killed right and someone was
like did you kill this whistleblower and he's like ah are you suggesting that i would kill a
whistleblower like and it was just like five minutes of the most unconvincing denial of
whistleblower killing I've ever seen in my life like I only heard Sam Altman's case for that and
I came out of it being like this guy 100% smoked that whistleblower bro I'm I'm not saying that I
think this guy is like ethical or good but like I think he I think he does have a better grasp of
like the political situation and like
what he's got to do to get things done right well that makes it even more interesting seeing like
dario's approach to it then doesn't it do you not do you not think it this whole story and narrative
about um it being the modern day nuclear arms race um and putting up putting it up against the common enemy of China or, well, I suppose
China's the only other people in the arena, to be honest, that's fighting it out. But
it all just adds to this constant narrative of, let's just continue to fund these companies
into the trillions and even into the private markets and let's prop the GPU market up as
much as physically possible. We're also coming off the back of,
still feeling the pain of what happened
from just hyperprint and money off the back of COVID.
And this is the only thing that's been physically
being able to kind of like drag us out of that.
The growth of the economy is massively propped up
by GPU demand in the AI sector.
Every single person in the US right now
is actually incentivized to like,
like, I'm not going to call AI a scam.
Like, it's obviously very real, right?
But like, when you push something hard enough,
like beyond what it is actually capable of producing as a technology
within a given timeframe,
like there's a point where it kind of becomes a scam, right?
And like the US government is incentivized to make ai a scam by promoting it as something
that it is not just because the entire economy relies on this right and we've been like we should
have had a recession what like 10 years ago we're now we're now like we've limped out of two recession
cycles somehow without blowing up we're just like kicking it down the uh kicking it down the street
here as much yeah and then we'll do quant we'll do quantum once this dies down yeah yeah we just need some new technology all robotics and then
quantum like yeah you need that new story and it all has to be like a national security threat as
well to allow ridiculous capex to be spent on it and private funding to be spent on it and
you know to justify like reduce
regulations towards it because if we don't do it someone else is going to do it it's like it's the
same shit same pig different lipstick every single time around yeah i will say the the national
security threats actually are uh they're actually somewhat valid to me given that like uh i mean this
might also just be theater i might be falling for aP here, but I don't know if you guys have noticed, but OpenAI 5.3 codex is good enough at security work
that they don't serve it.
Like if you're doing some sort of security hardening
or pen testing job where you're trying to like either hack
or prevent your system from being hacked,
which like if you're trying to prevent yourself
from being hacked, you can also phrase a prompt
such that something that looks like you attempting
to harden a system is actually you attempting to hack into another system that something that looks like you attempting to
harden a system is actually you attempting to hack into another system so it's like the same
thing just different side of the coin uh they're instead serving people codex 5.2 which is worse
at security uh and the stated reason is that well this aren't this model is really fucking good at
pen testing and like there's a lot of currently deployed mainframe systems
that you can just fuck right now with this.
So we need to contact a lot of people
and get them to harden up their security a little bit
before we deploy the universal hacking AI vibe coder
to everyone in the world,
because that might be bad for us.
Yeah, that was my concern with a lot of these people just deploying agents and giving them access on chain and shit because
if you literally do give them that like the quickest way that if you were truly to just
like let an agent off the loose and to give it access to that the quickest way for it to make
money would probably be exploiting defy protocols like at scale yes no no that's i i moved all of
my shit out of these vaults and i now i'm like
100 fully like insured custody ever since this ai vibe coding stuff happened because like i just
have like there's going to be a massive massive smart contract exploit barrage coming it happens
every bit every bear market man like you remember bottom of last bear market when everybody when
all of the grifters stop
being able to eke out like money from like 1% transaction fee taxes or something like that,
they refocus their efforts to whatever the next lowest hanging fruit is.
And that becomes $50 million in a vibe coded pot, man.
You don't want to be in the vibe coded pot.
And like, you need to go look at all of these yield optimizers you're using and figure out
like, where the fuck are these things actually deploying capital to?
Because like, you know, maybe not everything gets hacked, but like if 50 percent of the vault is put in some goofy shit that like North Korea is able to vibe code out, you're still not going to be super happy.
Right. And like you don't want to be in a political position where you rely on like Republicans having good enough favor that like the US government bails out
like a $40 billion smart contract DeFi exploit.
It won't be good.
Yeah, Moonwell got fucked
and it was only like 1.8 million,
but that's like canary in the coal mine type shit
because it was in collaboration with ClaudeCode.
And it obviously got like approved and it got committed,
but people are not verifying the code
that's been written by the agents as well
and then submitting it when they're looking after
millions of dollars of people's money.
People can't even verify the code anymore, meaningfully.
It's mad, isn't it, how this cycle repeats every single time
and then there's always some sort of
pied piper ceremony dance that
leads everyone into the same turmoil.
And it, and it's the, you know, like you say, grand same pig,
different lipstick.
And it's interesting how like most people won't spot these patterns.
It'll just repeat and repeat.
And, and I think it's also a symptom of everything we've been saying,
like just literally when we went live in terms of um like all of the content that you see and like lucas as you're saying like the grifters
have moved from crypto to ai but have still got that skill set so they know how to exploit this
one with that one and then you can see the fire right now they're doing amazingly too because
i think solana actually like i see solana is basically like
early ai and this is like that's obviously like a very dubious statement but i will clarify insofar
as i mean solana lowering the barrier to entry to all of this shit we were able to see what happens
right like you can see what happens when the barrier of entry to launching something right
obviously obviously like an ai startup or whatever is very different than a shit coin but they attract the same type of people at the end of like lowest
friction and so we've basically gotten to see already all of these like random scam startups
what can happen when it costs five dollars to launch your own startup you make the twitter page
you make the account the website and whatever and now the rest of the world is getting to see that
right so like i would say that right now crypto people who have participated in last cycle are
uniquely allocated mentally to understand and profit from this ai thing because it's just going
to be the same thing you're going to see the same grifters they're going to have the same market
cycle except now they're actually going to capture retail, right? Like this guy who made the calendar app or the calorie tracking app for the MyFitnessPal acquisition,
like this is a shitcoin analog, right? Like there was a way that you could have profited off of this
if you knew what was going on with shitcoins. And also there was a way that you could have said,
I know this is a scale, like this is going to be run up infinitely and then eventually someone's going to realize this is all fake it does nothing and
it's going to zero you know like we know it all already right so i'm gonna just take that as a cue
to move on to this because we we obviously said when we were doing the prep and that's
it's really interesting hearing it hearing that comparison made in that way and even though i've
kind of like subconsciously thought
that that's what we're seeing
with like all of this vibe coding shit.
And like, you know, to use that term again,
like Pied Piper, just leading everyone into the trough.
This Cal AI thing, Lucas, the way you've just put that
is perfectly summarizes the whole, like, you know,
you kind of democratize the creation of anything
and then the sewage pipes are open.
And this Cal AI, I first saw this sort of thing.
I don't know whether it was this specific model
or something along these lines
that maybe didn't get as much traction on Instagram,
like maybe six, seven, eight months ago, longer than that.
And I was like, as a guy who like regularly
tracks calories and like macros and all that kind of shit anyone with half a fucking brain that isn't
a moron would look at that and be like how can you take a photo of my scrambled eggs and tell
me how many calories are in like there are so many variables that did you cook it with but did
you cook it with butter did you put milk in it is the fucking cream it's just so you say. You say this and there's someone out there that's like, I need a study, bro.
Like, I need you to prove for me that this doesn't work.
And you're now in a situation where you have to, like, explain common sense to somebody that smart.
And it's it's like you can't you can't do it.
Like, I cannot explain to you why there could be twice as much butter in this bowl of eggs as as the picture assumes right yeah
yeah they're like but he has an ai like the ai should be able to do lipid analysis on the edge
yeah yeah okay so the context here before we get deep into this i've been like looking forward to
get into this this bit is this fucking thing i've got the stats up here it's got over 15 million
downloads the 40 million
dollars are seven employees built by two high school students right so the core product is
as we've said you point the camera at your food the ai counts the calories no database searching
no manual login right i just can't even take it seriously so in under two years it's on track for
a 50 million dollar breakthrough in 2026 um the founders were still in school working all weekend my fitness pal uh pursued the acquisition
for nearly a year the deal closed in december and it was announced uh on the second so like a couple
of days ago now so cal ai remains standalone it's already integrated with my fitness pals like 20
million food base um the where is the total that they bought this thing for?
Did I already say that?
It looks undisclosed.
It's undisclosed.
But if they were doing 30 mil revenue,
five to seven X multiple.
But if people are right in saying that there is a variance of like
plus or minus 50, 60, 70%,
then maybe that gets factored in.
So maybe 100 mil plus? minimum this was rejected a lot and then went viral on socials and
where it's interesting is what you're saying lucas that like how depressing is it of the power of
like social media and brain rot and how
fucking moronic the average person is now that there is,
there's not only like a lack of appetite to interrogate whether something makes
sense or can be true or will even work.
There's actually now you're also fighting the argument of like, well,
prove to me that it doesn't work. Like that's just so ridiculous.
And then you get like these.
In this case specifically you
cannot prove to anyone that it doesn't work because the the people who use calorie tracking
apps for the most part don't use them it's like it's a it's a thing that they bookmark and come
back to never because they're like oh like this is surely going to help me in the future right
like i'm going to get myself in shape for the new year. Like 95% of these people just don't actually use the tools. They have it there so they
can feel good about like theoretically improving their lives, but they don't use it. And it's the
same thing. Every time you look at a calorie tracking study, like the average person, you can
give them tools, you can have them pay as much attention to this as they want. But like universally,
it's like 3% of people actually accurately track their
calories right and this doesn't change if you give them access to an ai that claims to do this they
also just misuse the ai and in this case the ai misuses itself by not even working in the first
place but nobody notices like three percent of people will find a way to get skinny if they want
to regardless because they are smart people who are determined and the other people will just stay exactly the same size as they always have been their whole lives
except now they're paying for an ai subscription why if we're having this conversation to even just
argue this on the top level why am i fitness pal buying this thing because we know i know that i
think i don't necessarily think they're buying the app. They've bought the outrage of this announcement
and the distribution.
They've bought the Gen Z kids who know
how modern distribution works.
It's like the Coinbase and Echo acquisition.
They're not actually buying the product,
they're buying the influence and the distribution
that that brings, I think.
And they also probably could
make it into something uh that is more useful i guess like there is in theory a way that you
could make like an ai photo app that like is kind of accurate ish now all of this is of course
dependent on like you know like whenever anyone talks about calorie tracking it's this like
calories in calories out thing and it's like it works however you have to know both the calories
in and the calories out do you know how many calories you burn per day and then it's like
how are you calculating this like you didn't go into like a thermal chamber where you measured
the amount of energy that you're outputting right yeah you like multiplied your weight by like 13
or something and you're like that's how many calories i know like yeah like yeah i uh i i
use like garmin and all this kind of shit again minimum fitness and all that sort of thing and i
even have like a like a trainer and all this thing that i work with and like one of the things on the
check-ins that i'll use every week is like how many calories you burn this week and i put na every
single time like because there is no way to accurately tell how many calories i burn in a
single day and like i'll talk to my mom or
something and she'll be like i've been 500 calories on that walk and i'm like how the
fuck do you know that and then apple and garmin have shipped these products and made millions and
millions often it's not even an estimate it's literally nonsense thin air bullshit and like
in the guys like the guys who wear like three different ones for reference.
They wear like chest strap,
whoop on one and then like Garmin on Garmin on the other.
And then like take,
like work out the degree of variance.
Fucking hell.
It's no wonder really,
is it that we,
that we're having this conversation about like,
it gets back to
the point like get out get out of the way of yourself and like stop trying to cater towards
like what stop trying to sell to smart people like try and sell to the masses play at the
idiots table like if you if you sell to smart people you need to be selling some sort of like
b2b like infra product that like actually works really well if you sell to smart people, you need to be selling some sort of B2B infra product that actually works really well.
If you sell to retail, it's like, I mean, I am positive that I could go on a podcast and sell anyone basically anything, right?
I could find a random reverse osmosis water filter, mark it up a 5X, and go and sell it on a podcast.
sell it on a podcast and i think i could succeed very well at that i agree like
And I think I could succeed very well at that.
I agree.
that's actually one of the uh strong multi-level marketing uh items out in in bali in thailand
that a lot of people run it's just like a reversal mostly filler which is i've been wanting i've been
wanting a really really good water filter to sponsor the podcast for a long time oh yeah
the funniest like alex jones like funniest, like Alex Jones, like,
and like, there was another, there was some episode where one of my friends with like a
water filter company gave me like a ref link to shill. And it was like a thousand people listened
to this podcast. And I showed that ref link and made like very low five figures off of it. And
I was just like, this is so much better than shilling crypto, bro. And every single person
who came back to me after that water filter shill they were like dude i love the filter man you fucking changed my life whereas like you ever
promote any crypto and you just get one million people saying like dude i'm gonna kill you man
like i hate you so much it went to zero like no matter what you like you can literally give them
100x and it will like eventually still go down right yeah fuck yeah we did a i wonder why that hasn't
been like explored probably because you've got a load of idiots with a load of free time and a
shitload of money that just looking for a reason to spend it and people probably should be
advertising to the demographics who listen to this kind of shit we like crypto uh like crypto
content everyone always complains about why crypto content, like, why aren't there more creators here?
And it's like, well, because everyone comes here and then realizes that you get death threaded all the time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, fuck.
It's so funny.
And then ironically, like if we get into the next thing now, like, so the line here, this one, because again,
we've just got a nice habit on this show this week
of like leading one topic into the other.
So this ongoing argument has been happening now
for I would say 18 months to two years.
Since like Kaito started shipping the retail figures
focused product on info fire where
you could essentially gamify just being the most annoying cunt that has ever logged into twitter
in the world that was when the death spiral started right like it was kind of like oh shit
now we can farm airdrops by talking shit relentlessly all the time so what we had is then on the back of that a situation where
the prediction market things came online calci up to a load of fuckery and no good with like
undisclosed sponsorship type stuff so nikita has come out and then kind of said right fuck it
no no shills that aren't paid partnerships, essentially.
And what this is, is if you kind of read between the lines,
I mean, you don't even have to read between the lines.
It's incredibly fucking obvious.
It's another attempt at killing like, you know, the KOL thing, right?
And where I think this is interesting is there's a lot of people
that are caught in the crossfire here.
And I saw a tweet the other day that
it was some guy and he was just talking about like hyperliquid and whatever.
And he basically got banned and someone was like,
fuck, like first innocent victim dead.
And I was like, well, there's multiple red flags all over this thing.
There was a ticker.
There was a mention of a dollar amount.
There was a lot of like hyperbole.
There was capital letters used.
It's highly emotive language.
I was like, I can understand why a bot would be like,
that's a paid hyperliquid shill,
which is also ironic as it would never be, by the way.
But the question comes back around to then is,
has like Crypto Twitter done this to itself?
Or is this like validated what he's doing now
in terms of like, you know,
you have to declare whether you've
been like sponsored by something which most people do by the way like look at this pod that we're on
here jesus christ the fucking names that are running across the bottom and brought to you by
yeet in the top gotta be fucking thick as shit if you can't figure out that yeah names are sponsoring
the podcast by looking at this i think that's more of a you problem then i was actually wondering
about like whether they're going to require you to put like sponsored by in front of all of the sponsors for a podcast or something like that.
You can't actually like click that on.
There's no like way to do that when you actually go live through Twitter.
So I know that's why I was wondering because I was like he's requiring like explicit disclosure with a lot of this stuff.
And like I was like, do I can I like not go live anymore without like putting sponsored by various?
And even does that count?
Because he said that you must tick the tag, but there is no tag going live.
And like, I kind of don't want to like play games with Nikita because if you get accidentally banned, there's like two employees at this place.
So it's like, you might get unbanned in like seven years or something.
Like I don't know how it goes.
So I'm like giving the lines a very wide berth with all of this stuff.
Yeah.
What do you think of it then?
Because we're the same.
You know, like we – with everything you can see across the bottom and stuff,
we're live right now.
There are sponsors on here.
It's blindly obvious unless you are, you know, a fucking imbecile that there's sponsors on this show that you're
watching so like what i'm questioning at the minute is are we going to a place where
we can still create content like crypto content native content as you say like nothing that we
do realistically is shilling anything anyway like i don't really care whether you go and check these
things out that are on here like i would encourage that you do i'm incentivized financially that you do but like
yeah but like as you say lucas if you get banned on twitter like it it it's not just it's not just
black box it's like it's game over territory it's like there is no recourse there's no action to take it's just you're fucked essentially yeah super not ideal
what what's the what's the answer then do we should we all just start like selling like drink
sponsorships and like water fillers and shit like that is that what we're kind of going towards here
i i'm gonna be honest my assumption with a lot of this stuff is that like i if you are actually good at promoting and selling stuff
universally which most people who have been successful in crypto are it makes more sense
to promote other things than crypto like it almost makes more sense to sell people like get like a
peptide sponsorship or something like that or like literally like any random trinket like anything that you like right like my my example is like i fucking love like the lamey 2000 fountain pen
is lamey going to sponsor me no but there's some there's some pen store that might like if i
approached every fountain pen distributor and said like i will move a fuck ton of this weird german
fountain pen for you yeah they would be like yeah sure give it a shot man here's like a
ref code uh yeah but you know what i think that is and crypto is the only industry in the world
like now ai2 where there's this like sort of odd circle joke that the people that are here are also
only interested in the other people here who know about this weird subculture that they are
and like as you say like there is this entire,
like we're on this stream now with however many people are watching it live,
however many people will watch it after.
If we are actively shilling a product, it could be this water bottle, right?
There is a high chance that the human beings that consume things
in their lives beyond crypto content will probably go and purchase that.
It exists in every other media platform in the world,
like football like
sport gaming but for whatever reason we're in this like echo chamber of we're a crypto podcaster
therefore we must have a sader sponsor it it just doesn't really make any sense really does it
when i was doing a lot of streaming the thing that i noticed is that like
the majority of our viewers were people who just generally liked what i like they just liked me and found me interesting yeah however
they hated whenever i talked about crypto and then there was another group of people who could give
less of a fuck about like my personality and they were there for crypto right and you have you have
these two very oppositional groups so every time you talk about like any sort of cultural thing
you get every
crypto person saying like shut up dude like i i'm going to and then they expletive threaten slurs
etc and then whenever you talk about crypto all of the normal people start going like dude this
is the most boring thing i've ever heard in my life like shut up uh yeah and you eventually
realize like there is no way to rectify this like i think everyone in crypto had this idea that like i can be i can gradually like get normal people to care about my blockchains if i'm just
interesting enough and thus far we have not seen that that theory holds any water right like for
the most part crypto is interesting to people who are already interested in crypto we can do this
and we can talk about like a bunch of anthropic stuff and stuff like that people like broadly find interesting but when we start talking about
like the trump administration and like uh crypto and how that's going to play into stuff they're
just like dude like come on bro like they hear the word crypto and they just like massive flashing
red lights in their brain so there is uh it's just oppositional it's very tough and i think
this is making the Nikita situation a lot
weirder too, because there's a lot of people who are just like mad at crypto spam. And like,
now you have, you know, like the open claw head, like Peter Steinberger comes out and he's just
openly shitting on crypto all the time in a way that it's like, I think it's very unfair. I think
everyone in crypto agrees. It's like categorizing all of crypto by a handful of scammers is not fair,
but also this is how the
normal person sees it like the normal person's experience when dealing with the cryptocurrency
industry is like very aggressive hostile rude scammers trying to get you to do things that
benefit them and hurt yourself yep yeah it's and what's funny and me and gran talk about this all
the time it's like there's this telepathic thing with everyone who's been here for some time
that we all know that this is the dance, right?
Like you're repeating it as well.
Like we all know.
And there's this part of your soul that hurts every time you see like the,
you know, the Peter Steinberger thing where I'm like, fuck.
Another one when I'm at dinner with the in-laws that I've got to,
I've got to explain my way out of this one then.
And it's like, it's an optics thing that will just never, ever go away.
And again, the point that you raised about ai and except the difference here is they are going to
get retail that they are and it's like why why is that not a problem yet from an optics point of
view and there's a look we could talk all day about it perhaps is with some i think you get one
cycle i think you get one cycle to completely scam retail as an industry right and then like i do think i do think that like free markets do learn right i think
crypto in like 2020 or whatever i think that was our like retail exit scam cycle i think ai still
has yet to do their retail exit scam cycle but there is going to be a point in the future i think
where the average normal person hears like ai and just says like fuck off man like yeah
fuck it out of my life right and like i i think also in the same way as like people think that
when they hear crypto and crypto still works and it's better than ever right ai is going to be
better than ever when the average normal person hears ai and just becomes violently aggressive
in response to that that's what i'm saying. I put out a tweet the other week saying,
are you still referring to your company as a crypto project or a crypto company?
It's the most glass ceiling thing
you can physically do at this point.
It should just be invisible rails on the back end.
It should just be an operational business
that is somewhat enhanced
because it runs on crypto rails.
Not everyone needs to know that.
It doesn't need to be crypto first.
Some of the best products in the industry at the minute
are just seamlessly integrated into the back end
and the business is all the better for it.
I think we'll probably get to that point with AI as well
where it's just so embedded.
Now everyone's like a .AI domain
because you're obviously getting a better multiple of your position that way
and that's the game and that's a dance but like we don't still call them internet companies
you know like they're just companies that exist that like invoke all this technology so
i mean we just finished a raise for our product that like it's a kyc product that uses a lot of
ai in order to like you know like match like liveness to documents and stuff like that right
and there's a lot of other there's a lot of other things that go on when you're trying to do some sort of uh
you know like aml kyt things like this you could totally plaster ai ai like all over this it's
nowhere in the fucking deck because you just attract idiots like the investors that you get
if you put ai anywhere on your company in your, it's just like, it doesn't work.
They're going to be like the worst people in the universe.
And that's, uh, I think that's a general rule.
Like you never want to be raising on the back of some like industry wide boom because you,
it, it prevents you from like having a product and it prevents you from having investors
who invest on things other than like, fuck, like we have a mandate to invest in this current bubble scam.
Like I have to deploy.
I must deploy, right?
Yeah, short-termism doesn't just happen in the public markets
like with idiots in Discord.
It happens in the private markets as well.
Yeah, just like let's double click on what you guys have been up to
just to kind of like wrap things up
because I messaged you a couple of months back now
and just said, fuck me, the way that the industry is going, this is like drastically
needed.
And this is what I mean.
It's like a great product that is enhanced by the rails that it's built on, but doesn't
necessarily need to be like crypto or AI first, you know?
So I think it's a good way to wrap it up.
Yeah.
On Flow.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
So on Flow, actually actually we should be going uh so we're going to be doing the uh
we're going to be doing privacy and kyc for uh circles layer one but uh it's it's essentially
like full stack compliance uh based on zk so the idea is that like compliance should not have to require uh unless legally mandated
sending all of your documents to some weird service provider right like this should all be
zkable you should be able to store a local vault on your phone that has all of your documents and
you go and say like uh i i need to prove that i am like a member of the u.s right like i i have a u.s passport you don't need to actually give them your full passport data to prove that I am like a member of the US, right? Like I have a US passport.
You don't need to actually give them your full passport data
to prove this, right?
You don't need to prove your age by giving someone your ID.
All of these things can just be a ZK proof.
You can derive the information from something that exists in your vault also.
And you shouldn't need to send your vault to some third-party service provider
that winds up getting hacked
right like everyone right now has kind of just accepted that we live in this world where
oh yeah you can just buy my ssn for four dollars on the dark net right like uh i can't protect
anything like privacy is gone but like it shouldn't be that way like it probably shouldn't be that way
at least uh and you can just have the stuff locally
stored and then served as kind of like an autocomplete uh via zk proof to the things that
need it and you know the process can be easier like i i basically wound up working with them
because uh i had these two friends that were like fairly uh important cryptographers that i had been
talking to for a long time and they would always pitch me this thing that was like yeah so like it's uh and then you you say a bunch of zk
kyc words and in abstract i was just like what is this like fake passports what are you talking
about dude like i was just getting massively iq gated uh but then i just met up with them in
person and they showed me the demo and it was basically like they took out their phone they
just like scanned the nfc on my passport
like took a picture of me and shit like that and they were like okay now you have a locally stored
kyc document uh you go and you want to sign up to this thing they made like a demo site and it just
pops up a notification on the phone and then you just click like yes i would like to serve this
i would like to serve this company like this this and this data and then it sends it and then you're
done and you're kyc'd and i was like oh so it's a fucking like portable reusable encrypted kyc
that prevents me from having my data distributed across 300 providers this is the most amazing
thing in the universe uh i'm quitting everything that i'm doing to work with you guys this is
awesome i fucking hate anything that's not autofill anywhere. I really do.
And you go and you're like, you're flying somewhere.
And, you know, it's like your SIM card just ran out.
And you have to like dig up your passport to put in your,
you have to put in your data to register for like an international flight.
And you're like digging through your bags.
And you're just like, dude, like, why can't my phone just like remember this shit?
This should truly just be yeah yeah okay yeah questions firing off on my head on this one really but i'm looking at the time we're over an hour and six and we try and keep these to
an hour um i don't know yeah i don't know why really, like we can continue ripping unless anyone has. I don't know. I don't know if I've ever,
I've got to jump on it.
I mean,
I am right.
Well,
I will,
I will wrap it there then because,
I could just continue picking both your brains,
but I'm all,
all of this,
this shit really,
even like with what you're saying here about like on flow and like the whole KYC process.
And I,
I have thoughts about how people even think about the data.
Like we've talked about the optics of normies and just not understanding the
shit on the most basic level imaginable.
But I'll,
I'll leave it there.
I'll say good luck with it.
And thank you for coming on Lucas.
I've been looking forward to this.
It was every bit as good as I thought it would be.
I want to do this again,
as soon as you are free to do this with us.
Grant,
as ever,
I won't see you next week.
I think we're both out,
but anything else, Lucas from you, mate, how how's how's things your own pod plausibly deniable uh
what's going on plausibly deniable.org we started a couple weeks ago i was so psyched i got a dot
org for the first time yeah that's sick and i would encourage you as well that if you haven't
already while we've been watching this live like like please just go on the Lucas's profile.
And if you're bored and you just want to doom scroll and fucking laugh,
even the thing that's like pinned to the top of your profile,
like fat people and calories.
Like I just,
I've watched that clip probably about five times now.
it's so fucking funny and we haven't even had a chance to bring that up.
So yeah.
hyper online soon to go back to skit.
So I will look forward to that as well.
It's very appropriate.
But Lucas, thanks again for your time.
Thanks, Grant.
Cheers, chaps.
Absolutely.
Do it again.
See you, gents.
Bye-bye.
