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🚨 TRUMP vs. DESANTIS WAR | Babylon Bee Censorship? |w/ CEO @SethDillon
Recorded: May 27, 2023 Duration: 3:09:33Space Recording
Short Summary
The transcript primarily revolves around a heated discussion involving the Babylon Bee and its CEO, Seth Dillon, regarding the firing of Gavin Wax. The conversation touches on the political tensions between Trump and DeSantis supporters, with accusations of bias and financial ties influencing decisions. Seth Dillon defends the decision as a conduct issue rather than a political one, while others argue about the implications of such actions on free speech and political affiliations. The debate highlights the complexities of managing personal conduct in public forums and the potential legal ramifications of employment decisions.
Full Transcription
Dr. Gorka, how are you doing today, sir?
Good, thank you.
What do you?
I'll ask you a little bit.
It just seems like, I'll ask you a few minutes
once we actually kick off the space a little bit,
but man, I'm telling you, this Twitter war
between the DeSantis and Trump camps
are getting quite intense.
It's fun, isn't it?
It's fun until I keep thinking about, you know, I just, and you've been in the, in the, in politics,
but, you know, longer than I have. And I don't know. I guess, you know, I'll go ahead and ask you. Do you think,
is it even possible for, you know, these two camps to get together after the primary, no matter who wins?
I'm always puzzled by people on, uh,
People on the right who say, oh my gosh, how can we do this?
How can we be criticizing each other?
What?
Are we the Communist Party of the Soviet Union?
I mean, really, we can't disagree.
We're ripping each other apart.
No, it's called primaries, okay?
We don't have to love each other.
And just remember what, you know, Kamala said about Biden
and what they said about, you know, what Hillary said about...
Tarsi Gabbard. The idea that we have to be monolithic is insane. It's un-American. And of course,
we'll come together. Whoever the candidate is, who wins, we'll get the votes of every reasonable
person who's on the right. So people need to stop thinking that we are two monolithic sides.
I just don't get people who are so simplistic. Yeah, I think it's also worth noting that if you
remember, I'm sure you do, Dr. Gorka back in 2016, when Ted Cruz and
and Donald Trump were the frontrunners at the time.
And I mean, some of those attacks were vicious back and forth.
Yeah, and now they have an excellent relationship.
So people have no, no historic context.
They just forget these things.
And they think, they think there's politics as normal.
Politics has changed forever when, you know, when 64 million Americans chose a non-politician
to be president, or we had 17 people from the establishment who he destroyed on the
on the primary platforms, it's a different kind of politics today.
And people need to wake up and understand that.
Right.
So, Heather, I'll go ahead and bring you in here while we still get the panel together here.
We're working on that.
Well, how does this work?
How long do you wait until you get going?
What's like the minimum number?
We don't typically have a minimum number of a waiting period, but it just depends on how many panelists we've been able to reach and get up on stage.
Obviously, that's all pre-planned, and the team in the background's working on bringing them all up, but sometimes it takes a little longer than usual.
And how do you get involved with running these things?
Say again.
How did you get involved with running these things?
I came up on stage back in December, actually, with Rhonda Santor, not
Rhonda Sandus, Thomas Massey.
And then after that, I just kind of stuck around and never left.
Got it.
And what's your day job?
My day job?
At this point, it's...
it's going around to
different places in the United States
covering different stories like East Palestine
you know I was there for a month and a half
covering that entire story
I don't know if you you know knew anything about that
but I was oh yeah no I remember I remember
nobody would have heard about it
it wasn't few of me in there right
I appreciate that.
And, you know, I think it's a story that, you know, I'm going to go back there next week
and hopefully spend about two weeks more there because I don't want people to forget about that story.
Good.
Yeah.
you know, it's a tragedy, and Joe Biden is still ignoring it, quite frankly.
President Trump went there.
He brought, I mean, tens of thousands of dollars worth of supplies, cleaning supplies, water,
which was extremely necessary because the people don't even, they still don't trust their tap water.
And then Joe Biden kept making the promise, oh, he's going to go, he's going to go.
And then you have Corrine John Pierre.
the press secretary for Joe Biden saying that, you know, oh, well, Joe Biden's been to Ohio before.
Great. That solves all the problems.
Yeah, somebody needs to start covering that story again.
Just like he's been to the border, right?
Remember when she said, he's been to the border?
He's been to the border.
Kamala Harris had said that when it was like for a campaign stop five years ago or something.
So Dr. Gorka, that was another thing.
I just got back from the border a week ago covering that.
I thought we're going to have to go now.
Where did you go?
I went to Brownsville.
I was in McAllen for a while.
I was pretty much bouncing between those areas because, as you know, Texas is a huge state.
And I'm from Kentucky, and I drove down there.
It was a 20-hour drive each way.
So, I mean, the further west that I go was, you know, it's just, you know,
getting to the point where it was going to end up being, you know, a 24, 25-hour drive.
Where I think that needs a lot of attention down there is there is no complete border at all.
Places where it's very easy for people just to walk over the Rio Grande.
Right. You know, it's not very deep in a lot of places. You have Brownsville, Texas, which is right across from Mademortes, Mexico. I went into Matamoros, Mexico, and I ended up, you know, going into this migrant camp that had over 5,000 people in it waiting to cross over. There is no border wall on the other side, Dr. Gorka. That was one of the things that Trump wanted to put in place, and they blocked them.
Yep, yeah, it's absolutely incredible.
Incredible.
I feel like at this point, we actually don't have borders because I just went to Newburgh, New York, and these illegal immigrants are being stashed in these hotels all over our country right now.
So...
It's almost like to say that there's a border crisis doesn't actually apply anymore because we no longer have borders.
These NGOs are distributing these people all over our country.
So it could be in your, the border crisis could now literally be in your backyard.
Nick, can you hear me?
I can't.
It's clear, isn't it? It's not echoing.
Yeah, it's not echoed out, actually.
Awesome, awesome.
Right, so Nick, do you want to give us an update?
We've had a marathon, I'd say, 72 hours.
So if you want to give it update about what happened,
get the audience up to date, and then we'll start the show.
Yeah, so it seems, you know, as I was saying a little bit earlier when we first started, there seems to be an ongoing Twitter war between the DeSantis camp and the Trump camp. And I don't just mean staffers or advisors or anything like that. I'm talking about, you know, fierce supporters of both sides that.
that have been going after each other to the point where you had the vice president of marketing at the Babylon B
and ended up being removed from his post.
That's how bad it got because, you know, he was, you know, pushing back, to say the least, on, I believe, DeSantis's chief advisors.
Christine pushed off.
But that wasn't why he was fired.
Yeah, so can you go into that a little bit more?
I don't know.
I can.
It was in response to me.
It was something I posted, and he reacted to something that I posted.
I put it in the nest.
What was the reaction, just for the people that can't?
Yeah, I'm just missing part of me.
I mean, I editorialize a bit, so I'll try to be neutral here.
He said, you should ask me if I get paid to tweet, and if I deny it, then you should ask me if, you should ask me if Ghesadis pays me, then you should ask me if his tax pay me, or anyone related to him pays me.
And then, and, uh, even though he knows that I'm not paid, um, and then I said, uh,
And then I said,
Gavin used to receive a paycheck that was financed by Miles.
Whoa, you should ask him about it.
And then I guess Christina liked that tweet.
And he said, and then Gavin said,
I worked out getter.
It's on my LinkedIn.
So what?
Am I responsible for my actions for the actions of my former employer?
Sorry.
Am I responsible for the actions of a former employer?
Someone I met maybe five times in my life.
Are you trying to accuse me of something?
You schmuck?
And apparently Christina liked that.
And then he sent some more tweets.
And then Seth said, don't do that.
And then Gavin quote tweeted him and said something.
I forget what that was.
And then he was related to his duties.
Matt.
Well, didn't he say it was the language?
Didn't Seth say it was like the language just as early?
Hang on a second.
Hang on a second.
The tweet that's posted at the top here, I think you wrote, I don't know who you are, Max,
but you wrote, got a paycheck from international criminal Miles Guo.
You do know he hasn't been prosecuted of anything, right?
You know that's slanderous, right?
Is that slanderous, Max?
Hi, has he been arrested?
Yeah, that doesn't make you a criminal.
You know that, right?
Okay.
Okay.
Sebastian knows everything, Max.
You know, I mean, this guy is...
Can we get rid of Chris?
Can we get rid of me?
You block me.
You block me.
Chris, Chris, Chris, let's keep some decorum.
All right.
Can I go here really quick?
Hey, because I don't have much time.
One second, Chris.
One second, Chris.
I just want to go to Chief to just give a different perspective
because that was Max's perspective from his side.
I know Chief wrote a thread as well,
so I'd just like to hear his perspective.
as well than that we have a bit of a balance about what happened
and then we can start with a bit.
Chief, go ahead.
Yeah, so for context, so Max did put that tweet out
and Christina was
liking those
those two weeks.
Got no sound here.
Yeah.
Okay, Sebastian, I'll drop you down and bring you back up.
Okay.
Continue.
Yeah. So basically, she was liking the tweets.
And a lot of employees in the past at Babylon B have used expletives in other slurs like that.
And this is while they're actually employed.
So, for instance, there is a tweet from one of the employees at Babylon B saying,
I don't give a F about Ashley Babbitt.
Other tweets also surface with, you know, F off, all these things.
So there have been employees who currently work.
at Babylon B, who have been cursing, have been using slurs,
and other language like that.
So the reason why...
Gavin was reacting this way was that Christina was liking and tweets insinuating some sort of criminal thing or whatever, which is totally wrong.
And it was really just a stupid tweet when we're saying, well, Teehee, you know, Gavin gets a check from someone.
It was a stupid tweet. And she was liking it and all of that. And we're always in that language.
So he called her out, said, what are you doing?
And basically sat despite...
What was the exact phraseology of his...
It was what...
It had a F word in it.
I read that.
Yeah.
It wasn't that bad.
Like,
if you want to read it,
have you got in front of you?
Because I think,
contextually,
when you explain it,
it sounds much worse.
When I read the tweet,
I was like,
what?
He got fired for that.
But anyway,
if you want to read it.
Yeah.
So the,
the tweet there on it says here,
sorry,
I just,
I just had up two seconds ago.
Yeah,
it said,
Hey, Christina,
what's your effing problem?
That's what?
That's what?
That's triggered him.
Right. So, you know, he tweets that out. And because he used a curse word apparently or whatever, the language wasn't too acceptable for his standards. He goes and sub-tweets, Gavin, saying, I like your tone or whatever. And Babylon B's Seth Dillon said in the past, that's okay to defend yourself. And if you're worried about being fired from a tweet, do it anyway. And then said another tweet in the past that it's okay to defend yourself on Twitter.
So with all this double standards, I'll wrap it up really quickly.
With all the double standards, we've gone with Babylon B, it's clear that, one, Seth Dillon has said in the past that's okay to offend yourself on Twitter.
And if it risk being fired, he said to do it anyway.
So number two, employees at that.
at that place, use curse words, use slurs, and things of that nature.
So it's ridiculously hypocritical for them to fire him over a crass word when they do all
the time in the past.
That's not according to Seth, so I recommend Salaman and Nick, you reach out to him now.
So...
As soon as I saw...
Okay.
I reached that.
One second, Chris.
Hang on.
Okay.
As soon as I saw the news,
I reached that to Seth,
because he's been on my show and I said,
is this true?
And he gave me a long DM about what
his reasons are and it's not about curse words.
So I would say before we go further,
have Gavin,
have Seth,
have people actually know what they're talking about,
give their sides of the story.
Okay.
Thank you, Sebastian.
Neutrally...
Sorry guys, we've invited Seth and the gentleman who got fired as well.
So, yeah, hopefully they'll be coming.
I'll definitely the guy.
If anybody does know Seth that is in the audience, definitely give him a shout.
Tell him we all that have a house.
All right.
We agree.
I think we all, we generally agree at the progression of things that happened.
The question then goes to like the motive behind the ultimate decision.
but I don't think there's too much agreement on the regression events.
It's not a terribly complicated series of events.
Sorry, guys.
I want to go to Chris.
Chris, let me go to you.
And let me ask you a question, and then you can add your bit as well, Chris.
Chris, one of the insinuations or one of the concerns people from the Trump side have is Babylon B is being funded by DeSantis.
and essentially this was a hit job by the DeSantis team.
Chris, go ahead.
Nobody on the DeSantis team made Gavin Mario Wax have a childish meltdown on Twitter and embarrass himself.
And I think we're not looking at the big story here.
These people like Gavin Mario Wax, like the Maga, Johnny and all these other people,
have been talking smack nonstop for six straight months.
And Christina Pushaw has kept her mouth that says stayed back.
And the team DeSantis has stayed back.
Now all of a sudden, after just one day, and she didn't even hit him hard, come on.
I mean, this is like funny stuff here.
And they just can't take it.
They have this whole meltdown and they're crying about being docked.
and oh my goodness team desantis is so mean to us and christina is so mean we can't believe it and these
are all men and it's really sad to see what maga men have turned into because they're really being a
bunch of a bunch of babies they've been doing nothing but attacking attacking attacking and then
christina comes and finally the gloves are off a little bit she barely taps them and they're all
crying and then she gets all these people instead of being an actual man which i've screwed up
before and i apologize when i mess up but instead of being an actual man about it and being like
okay you got under my skin a little bit he starts this me too style campaign where he's got all
these other guys that are like like that guy uh in grasse and all these other guys are like i
stand with maria or stand with gavin like
like some kind of like me too thing.
And this is just,
this is just embarrassing,
watching them play the victim.
Look,
just take responsibility.
This show,
Trump never takes responsibility for what he does.
These are Trump's disciples.
They don't take responsibility for anything they do.
And,
you know,
it was just kind of funny that,
they couldn't even handle like,
what was it,
like 20,
26 hours of Christina Pushsaugh before these men,
They all basically got beat up by a girl and started crying about it.
So you're saying we're allowed to go and defend ourselves, right?
You're saying we have the, if we're playing equal playing ground here,
we're able to respond to a person who likes a tweet that insinuates that someone's a criminal.
We're okay to defend ourselves, right?
Well, you couldn't defend...
I think we're kind of getting off topic here.
Well, Max, I'm trying to get...
He was fired after he...
After he...
Wait, Max.
I'm trying to explain that Chris is saying this whole thing about crying or whatever.
We're playing an equal playing field here.
We have the ability to go and defend herself
and for Gavin to defend himself in a tweet.
You can go and say,
boo.
all you want but you know we're playing equal plainfield here if she does something like like
a tweet calling you a criminal or insinuating that um he can just say what's going on with that and
if he used the expletive and she didn't like the expletive too much or sat felt like a snowflake too
much and like the curse word or how do you want to phrase it i don't really actually be that but
you know she he has the ability to offend himself just as she has the ability to go in maybe snorkey
comments so when he gets back he gets fired so your argument's kind of a bit flawed in that sense
Yeah, I mean, Max, let me bring it.
Chris, one second.
Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris, I need to go to somebody else.
Max, let me ask you this, because you were basically the start point of this issue.
And I mean, I don't understand Chris's argument because essentially this isn't someone to be able to take it.
If anything, wasn't this a case that...
essentially the guy who
defended himself, he used a slur word
but essentially he got fired
so isn't it that their dissentist
camp are more thin-skinned
than they don't want anyone to say anything to them
if they do you get fired.
So here's what happened and again you can
like you can't read Seth Dillon's mind
you can't read Seth Dillon's mind,
but like the progression of what happened
was that Gavin said what he said to Christina,
Seth that they cut it out,
and then Gavin quote tweeted Seth
and said something aggressive.
I don't know.
The happen after was the minimum of.
But,
so so so
no but max that didn't happen
like this is
not saying that this is
not but mark sorry that didn't happen did it
what happened was I know your incident happened
first
then he wrote that tweet
to Christian Persia and said
what the F or whatever the word was
and then
Seth Dylan then responds and says
take Babylon B out of your bio
essentially saying you're fired no no no that's
that's not the total
that's not the progression
yeah correct me if I'm wrong
please go ahead oh
Oh, well, Seth's here.
So, yeah, no, but I mean, I'll just lead into it because Seth's now here.
But no, what happened was he said, he said, what the fuck.
And then Seth disputed that.
And then Gavin quote tweeted Seth and said, I forget.
And then Seth said, take it out of your bio.
So, but now we have Seth here.
So he can keep.
Yeah, yeah.
So, sorry, go ahead, Nick.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Seth, welcome to the panel. I want to ask you, like, just overall, give me your thoughts on the entire situation. We've kind of gone over it a little bit. I don't know if you've heard any of it.
No, I just joined, so I don't know what you guys have set up to this point.
Well, we just started, Seth.
We're just trying to find out what happened.
I mean, is it a situation where there was a form of censorship going on?
What was the reason why it seemed to the public that you fired him based on using that slur word?
So please correct us and let us know what was the situation?
I wouldn't describe it as a situation where censorship occurred.
I think this is a...
This is a case where we have somebody who, you know, has the Babylon B in their bio, as an employee of the Babylon B.B. He was running our marketing campaigns and was engaging in really nasty public behavior. You know, he was demeaning people, calling people fat, calling them names, cursing, a lot of vulgarity, a lot of vile.
vile stuff that just
reflects very poorly on us.
I don't want people.
We're a Christian satire site.
I don't want people out there talking to other people like that
with our name in their bio.
And I strongly object to that.
And when I, in addition to that, you know, it goes a lot deeper than that.
There's other issues at play. I can't speak to all of it.
But, you know, you can, it's public record how many times this guy tweets during the day.
I was paying him to tweet essentially and paying him to tweet nasty things.
I don't think I have any obligation to continue doing that any longer than I want to.
So, Seth, one of the biggest, biggest, you know, counter arguments to this situation is that you have also tweeted vulgar things in the past.
Some of those tweets have surfaced.
I mean, so this, the argument is.
you know, maybe you can clarify the difference between that and what we saw yesterday.
Sure. Yeah. I've seen some of the tweets that people are screenshoting. They looked up the word shit, apparently on my, on my page. Advanced Twitter search brought up a few tweets where I was quoting people who had said the word shit. And in quotation marks, I quoted them multiple times. I don't think that's the same thing as spending my entire day on someone else's payroll, trashing other people with vile language. I,
Do you think that's the same thing?
Well, so what I will do is, I believe you're referring to Tara, who is up on stage.
So I'll let Tara jump in there. Go ahead, Tara.
I honestly am just curious.
It seems that, you know, from my perspective and watching all of this unfold,
that Gavin was more so defending himself against a lot of the Babylon B employees who were piling on
to a tweet by Max here on stage who was claiming that he was involved with some illegal
nefarious activity so in turn he defended himself which Babylonian employees i'm not aware of any
of that i didn't see any of the gab on bian please christina christina was not a babel on being the
comment oh i'm sorry okay okay my bad i'm sorry i was under the impression that she worked at you
just santis campaign staffer
Right, correct. So she was piling on. He defended himself against her. You in turn defended her and then fired him publicly, didn't, you know, reprimand him privately, you know, conducted yourself in a very public way to make a sort of display an example out of Gavin is how it seems.
Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't defend anybody.
I just really quickly going back to that issue of I've used vulgarity.
I mean, I just explained, it was kind of glazed over, but I just explained that these were tweets where I was quoting somebody else who was using curse words.
I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, Babylon B employees do use vulgarity constantly.
There are plenty of screenshots out there and they do have the B, you know, on their profile.
One account, MJ, I believe her name is, even has the F word in her header.
Um, so I mean, I don't know, it seems sort of like a double standard.
Yeah, well, but I respond to the question that was asked at me was my own vulgarity.
What my, I'm a hypocrite because I use vulgarity and I was firing this person for vulgarity.
It's not merely vulgarity, by the way. I never said, hey, you're fired because you said a bad word.
When did I say that? I never said that.
Does the Babylon B.
Will you be fired?
Does the Babylon B actively get money from the DeSantis campaign?
Have you got it?
No, the screenshots that everybody shares, including I believe Tara, who made a big deal out of this.
You guys love to just crop out dates, don't you?
The screenshots that are going so viral.
I took what was given to me.
I know.
Yeah, you don't ask questions.
You just share it.
I know.
So the screenshots that everybody loves to share are from 2021.
DeSantis was running for governor and was renting our list.
Like he rented everybody's list.
He spent a hell of a lot more with Daily Wire.
But here's the thing.
It's turned into this big story because everybody
cropped off the dates and is suggesting that we're actively
being paid by DeSantis to promote DeSantis
and tear down Trump.
Look at our website yesterday.
We made fun of DeSantis twice, just yesterday.
Are you guys sharing those screenshots?
Where are those?
So you haven't gotten anything like that seemed more like coddling.
One second, guys.
So Seth, I've got a question for you because the issue is this.
Like, we saw the tweet that he did where he said what the F
Christina and then immediately after that as a response you said like take the Babylon B out of your bio now if there was a lead up to the situation or lead up to the event or of this event occurring
Have you got some kind of paperwork to show that you basically had conversations with him in the past?
If he's tweeting regularly and these incidents that happen happen on a regular basis,
have you got a file on him that he'd be doing this?
You've had regular conversations, or was this the first time you basically said,
get that, be out of your bio, you're fired.
Essentially, you're saying you're fired, Seth.
My mind was turned off.
I'm sorry.
Because we're all talking at the same time.
Sorry.
Yeah, I'm not going to get into a lot of the nitty-gritty details of a personnel matter.
I'm going to talk about what's happened publicly, and that's all I can talk about.
And I don't think my lawyers would advise me to talk about anything beyond what's happened publicly.
But there has been, as I mentioned, it is public record.
I'm still talking.
I'm still talking.
I have one one's question.
Mario, can I continue to...
Let Seth finish.
Yeah, I'm going to let Seth.
Go ahead, please.
You can unmute you, mate.
Yeah. So like I said, it's very public how often he was tweeting. You can go look at the kinds of things that he was saying. I mean, clearly this was not a single tweet that I was objecting to. And I never said I was objecting to a single tweet.
So, you know, a lot of people are reading into things and they're making things up and they're sharing stuff that just isn't true. So I'm happy to kind of clear the record on that. And I'll be very forthright in answering questions that I can about what happened publicly, but not, you know, the details of an ongoing personnel matter.
You did say...
Excuse me, if I could just ask one thing.
If he was a DeSantis supporter, would he have been fired on the spot very publicly on display the way you did?
Oh, sure.
Yeah, his behavior is vile.
I don't care who he supports.
Like I said, I tweeted about this.
You guys can see my own Twitter page.
I don't care who you vote for.
I don't care he's, I don't even know who most of my employees vote for.
A lot of them, I'm sure, voted for Trump.
I know for a fact a few of them did.
Several of them are libertarians and didn't vote in the last election.
I don't give them a hard time about that.
I don't consider them betraying Trump or betraying DeSantis.
I don't care who he votes for or what he says.
If he's out there behaving in a way that is just vile and disgusting and reprehensible
with the Babylon B in his profile, I'm going to find that objectionable.
And I have every right to.
I think you would too if he was representing your corporation.
I mean, it's just...
It's really good. Our tagline was your trusted source for Christian news satire.
And we have people out there calling, you know, Janet said worked for Trump a long time ago.
She represented him.
You know, he's calling her fat.
Price divorced and overweight.
He'd never touch her.
You know, like that kind of stuff is nasty.
I don't want people like that representing me.
I hope other employees will be held to the same standard.
Do any other women feel the same way?
I mean, do other women here?
I mean, Jenna Ellis went around calling Carrie like a grifter
and saying her keynote speech at CPAC was lackluster and cringe.
Jenna Ellis does not work for me, and I'm not defending Jen Ellis.
She doesn't work for me.
Wait, Kai Kai, she's...
These are men.
These are men bullying women, okay?
And this is what the,
can I please join in here?
Guys, one second, guys.
Chris, Chris, please.
Let's finish this, but Chief,
did you have a question?
Because I think Chief,
you brought up,
a thread where other employees of Babylon B had made similar comments?
Is that the case?
Yeah, so here's the thing.
So the issue where what I'm saying is a bit of a double standard is there are employees
that were working at your place at the exact same time.
You know, they were working your place.
They had Bamblambi, one that was employed in March 2021 and said, I don't give a F about
Ashley Babbitt talking about that.
So I have the receipt here too, and it's still up.
You can go look at it for yourself.
the tweet itself from
Morgan says I don't give a F about her
she was warned any time not to proceed forward
or she would be shot
and that callous language I didn't think was
appropriate and there was also other tweets too
where she was saying
I don't think it matters much any God that
battle the D word someone to hell
or jeopardized their salvation for just getting watered
on them twice
and reclaiming their faith is not a God I will follow
So there are tweets out there from employees.
And there's more I found to with F languages being used.
So if you're,
because you made an assertion that he was,
his behavior is bad in public, right?
And if you're,
if you're making that assertion,
you know,
then then you can,
apply that same standard to other people who have used curse words or slurs on Twitter frequently
when they're employed by you. So that's kind of the point about the double standard.
If it's something internal where you can't talk about some performance thing, that's one other
whole issue, which you're not going to talk about on a public space for sure. But there are
employees for sure that you have, and we're working at you with you at the time, that we're saying expletives,
slurs,
and things of that nature.
So that's the point about double standards.
And if you're going to hold Gavin's his standard,
he's tweeting too much,
he's called someone fat or whatever.
Okay,
then,
but we'll love to tweet about Ashley Babbitt and the,
and the effing her death pretty much.
And not caring much about that.
Because Jantick's a big issue for me.
So yeah,
I saw,
Seth,
go ahead.
Can I reply really quick?
Yeah,
yeah,
I want you to reply.
I take a time though.
Sure.
Yeah, there have been... I saw a lot of screenshots.
Some of the screenshots that were shared were of...
tweets that in current employees of mine tweeted before they became employees of mine and before they had
they were you know representing the bee publicly um so that was that was one thing that i saw
going on a lot some of the ones that you referenced were tweeted by people who do currently work for
the bee uh and work were tweeted well they do work for the bee uh and i i do find that objectionable um
you know whether whether it it rises
Whether it rises to the level where they need to be let go is a determination that I have to make.
But like I said before, I hate to have to repeat myself.
But I said before, this was not about the fact that he used a curse word in a tweet.
It goes way deeper than that.
I mean, this is a pattern of a person who spends his entire day attacking people online with vile and vulgar language and with the Babylon B in his bio.
Right.
And it goes far above and beyond anything I've seen from other employees of mine.
But there is a conversation to be had about how people with the bee and their bio who work for the bee represent themselves online.
And we need to start having those conversations apparently internal.
So the question, but here's the thing, too, because you said there's a long pattern of this.
You know, you're kind of making a statement that Gavin's been on Twitter a lot and he's tweeting the stuff out.
Like, as an employer, like, when you have a person that's doing this and you say there's a problem and it's like this going on for like a month or something, like shouldn't there be some internal discussion where you at least pull this?
Maybe there was.
Maybe you can't confirm or deny or whatever if it's internal.
But shouldn't you build it to pull me aside and say, hey.
could you hold back on this or hey do this
and instead of saying that this is going on for a long time
if there were no internal discussions about this
or anything like that
I think that it would be better to have those privately
and I understand that he made a tweet
It kind of broke the cameras back in your, I guess, in your eyes about what referring to Christina.
But still, like, he, that tweet that was going on in that context, he was being, you know, kind of.
Did you hear how he responded when I said I didn't, I didn't like him tweeting like that?
Yeah, I saw that response.
It's not like he responded in some way.
He actually at one point tweeted that I fired him for showing dignity, and I find that.
astonishing.
I mean, do you understand or do you come in from those?
I mean, Seth, like, from his perspective, though, he essentially is getting attacked.
He's getting attacked in such a vile manner, actually, basically accusing him of being
incoherst with criminals or wherever it may be.
He literally makes that comment in defense.
I thought that's quite bland, actually.
Yeah, like I said, he spends his day attacking people.
While working for on my, while I'm paying him, instead of working, he's tweeting 250 times
plus per day attacking people with.
With the Babylon B and his bio.
So why do you...
Like, it's not even a question.
Why do you...
I should not be employing that.
I don't want...
Why didn't you fire him when he called Jenna Fatt?
Why did you wait until he was defending himself against these accusations?
I don't see the relevance of that question.
I decided I no longer wanted this person to be an employee of mine.
Um, so I fired him.
Can you name the people who are talking about other people who have done, um,
who have done stuff like who have uh i want to go back very quickly to the question of hold on i want to
i want to go back for a second to this this question sorry seth i was trying to mute everybody else
go ahead sorry seth we'll mute and go yeah i want to go back to this question of would i have done this
if he was a dissantis supporter and you know nobody nobody responded to my answer there i said yes i
would have you know everybody has everybody the narrative that's out there what everybody's trying to say
is that we're on DeSantis' payroll.
We're paid shills for DeSantis.
We make jokes at Trump's expense,
but not at DeSantis.
That's false.
You can check our website.
We make jokes at DeSantis' expense.
I would have fired him if it was a Trump person
that he was attacking from the DeSantis side.
I don't care.
This was not a political move.
It had nothing to do with this person's politics.
Nothing whatsoever to do with that.
It has to do with the fact that I don't like how he's comporting himself and conducting himself in the public eye with the be in his bio.
And that's my decision.
That's my decision.
Do you think this would have been maybe more, because it looks like this is a little bit of a PR nightmare right now, too.
If you could go back, do you wish you would have handled this privately?
Even if you did fire him on the spot.
you know do you think that would have been a better way to to do it rather than have this
firestorm i'm assuming you didn't see that i actually i you know this has happened before
with other people i've had to let go and their behavior after they were let go only validated
that the decision was right so and we came out stronger and better for it on the other end by
not having them on the team so
Um, no.
But Seth, like, do you understand from people's perspective, you basically fired him publicly in a specific context where he's defending himself?
Like, I understand if he was attacking someone or you've got a zero policy like you're not allowed to say mean tweets.
I didn't look at the, I don't think the context matters.
I think that his, the, the pattern of behavior was there well established.
And I'd had enough.
Did it?
I don't think the context matter.
But how does the context not matter?
The context is everything.
Like, when you do something in a specific context, that's actually what matters.
And in this context, he was essentially defending himself.
Like, if he was actually being vile in this context, being abusive, proactively in this context,
I think people would have been less shocked.
How many, how much you to go back and look at his, do 250 plus tweets he sent the day before?
How many times was he defending himself versus insulting and attacking people with nasty violence?
Yeah, but you waited fire.
You tell me, Seth.
I mean, you tell me, Seth, like, when you've gone through his tweets...
Guys, this is like...
This is the shifting of the goalpost.
It's, like, one minute, it's, okay, you're working on behalf of DeSantis.
Now you're nitpicking, like, the context and whether he was defending himself.
What's the real problem?
What's the real problem?
What's the real problem?
focus on one problem and stick to it.
Seth, do you remember saying if you're afraid you might get fired for speaking your mind,
the solution is to speak your mind anyway?
If no one is willing to take that risk, nothing is going to change.
Yes, I realize this is easier said than done.
Courage is always more difficult than cowardice.
That goes without saying.
Do you remember tweeting that?
Yes, I do.
And I still believe that.
That's an awesome tweet.
Very brilliant.
Yeah, I do too. I agree. And that's why you've gained so much support and your band, you know, being banned and censored by, you know, old Twitter was a big reason why you guys gained so much support.
Do you think that as based on what I've described? I'm not done speaking, Seth, just a moment. Also, Trump and his support for you guys, I guess that's why we're all a little bit blindsided by the way you've handled this situation and so.
censored one of your employees who is, you know, an outspoken Trump supporter while defending, you know, a DeSantis campaign manager and also documentation of you guys accepting money from DeSantis.
This, I already said this is not about Trump, DeSantis. Why are you going back to that?
Well, because you did say, if you're afraid you might get fired for speaking your mind, the solution is to speak your mind anyway.
And is that not like Gavin did?
No, it's not what Kevin did. Gavin did. Gavin was a jerk all day long while I was paying him to do work for me. He was tweeting. I was paying him to tweet mean things to people while representing the Babylon B. That is not the same as just saying, that is not the same as just speaking your mind. That's like, that's what you're not, you're not owning up to the facts.
I would never fire somebody for sharing it.
If somebody accused you of something that you didn't do,
and they did it publicly on a social media platform that has now dubbed the new public forum,
like if somebody was accusing you of stuff,
are you not going to get defensive and snap back?
And to Dr. Gorka's point, like if this is all stemming from Miles Gow,
who's still innocent until proven guilty,
then he has every right anyway to defend himself.
You know, it's just sort of like you can say.
Well, you should, as a good employer, defend your employee as well.
Sorry, Heather.
I just want to add that in there.
As a good employer, you would defend your employee for being falsely accused as well.
Let's answer.
So, a couple of things.
On the quote again, you know, this idea that this is, that I'm contradicting myself
because I'm saying that people should be able to speak freely.
and you should do it anyway, even if it means you might pay a price, you might get fired, whatever.
I'm talking about expressing your self. I'm talking about sharing your opinions.
You know, I've never, I've never, have and never will fire someone for expressing an opinion that I don't like.
That's not...
what happened here. So you can try to put it in those terms. You can try to say that,
oh, well, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a dissantis guy. That's, those are your words, not mine.
I'm a dissantis guy, and he's a Trump guy, and I don't like that he's going after
Desantis people. He's speaking his mind. I don't want him to be able to do that, so I'm going to
censor him. First of all, I didn't take away his voice. He's still tweeting. He's not censored.
He's speaking more now than ever. He's tweeting even more than he did while I was paying him to work.
So he still has his voice. His voice hasn't been taken away in any way.
And so, you know, it's just, it's just ridiculous to suggest that I've censored him. I've simply said, look, I don't want you representing our company anymore. You're a jerk online. You say mean things to people. You use bad language when doing it. And I don't want you representing to be anymore. And I can't.
emphasize enough that that's the reason that this happened.
So, I mean, I mean, let me just ask Tara, Tara.
Does anybody here think that that's reasonable or, no, it's like, is this a, is this just a, you know, a cult crowd?
No, no, Seth, I think it's reasonable.
I'd like to chime in.
I think it's reasonable to essentially have a policy being a Christian organization on a monotheistic organization to have nobody.
who basically is disrespecting people swearing online.
Like I respect those perspectives and ideologies.
Like, it last brilliant.
where I guess what the question comes now that now you fight this guy for essentially doing that
are you going to be consistent now so is if any one of your employees acts in a similar manner
and I guess the similar manner is going to be because your I guess your argument is the volume
is the thing that made him made him get fired and not the specific I would say the spirit the
spirit much more than the volume the spirit much more than a specific word you know I
have sure employees of mine have said shit before I didn't fire them for that I
I said it just now.
You know, that's not hypocrisy.
The spirit of it much more, like I said, he spent his whole day, well on payroll, attacking
people in a mean-spirited manner.
And I don't like that.
So, and no, none of my other employees do that.
And,
And if one of them does, we'll have an issue.
So when Morgan tweets out, this is her tweet from Gen 6, 2020, and when she was an employee at the time, and she's still there, I believe.
I don't give a F about her.
She was one day of time not to proceed forward or she would be shot, talking to Ashley Babbitt.
What's a Babon B's take on Jan 6 and all that?
That tweet is, I think, extremely mean-spirited.
And I don't want people to be fired for tweets.
I don't want that.
But if we're playing, it seems if it's the volume, okay, then it's the volume.
We're saying it's the spirit of tweets.
So there are tweets out there like that one and other ones from that account that are mean-spirited.
And they say F-off the people.
You want anything about me, F-off.
I've looked through, and the point is if it's a mean-spirited thing, then okay, we can go through and look through the...
Yeah, I don't like that.
And employees of the bee who have the bee in their bio shouldn't be speaking that way.
She has the right to her opinion.
I think she has the right to her opinion.
I don't think that she should be either vulgar or attacking people.
all day long while they're well supposed to be working.
An occasional tweet that uses profanity, like in my case where I was quoting someone who used profanity,
to try to bring that up as an example of how, you know, I'm guilty of the same thing that Gavin was doing is kind of absurd.
I don't mind if my employees are in debates with other people.
I don't mind if they sarcastically or flippantly troll other people.
We do that a lot.
It's fun and entertaining.
It doesn't, it isn't always done with a mean spirit.
um but attacking a woman who died there are many things herself is pretty disgusting behavior in my opinion
who did that i'm sorry so morgan morgan i have the receipt here i'm reading this directly from
the thread um but i so wait are you guys saying that i should be saying i should censor and fire all
of my employees no i
Consistency, Seth.
What I'm saying.
Can I read a tweet?
Let me just one second.
One second.
Allsos, I think you've got a question and then I'm going to go for Allsos.
Yeah, no.
So I think, so just, Seth, just understand.
This is, Babo and B is your company, correct?
It is a private company that you, that is yours and you control who you hire or fire, correct?
Correct.
Correct.
Okay.
So I just find that this whole conversation from people who are all about private business
and flipping out, I mean, Seth, as the owner, said this person, because of my opinions,
cross the line that represent Negli my company.
As such, that person no longer works.
And it's a private company. And if Seth wakes up one day and says, I want to be insulting everybody or not, I mean, it's his company.
Yeah, I think this comes down to, it's a good point. I think this comes down to politics here.
It's if I had fired someone who is a dissantist supporter for being vulgar towards some Trump campaign person, everybody that's objecting right now would be cheering me on.
And everybody here knows it.
So the, not I, I.
I'm not asserting that. We're not asserting this.
The point is that we're not disputing the fact you're private company.
You're the boss. You can do whatever.
You all know it, guys. You all know it.
I'm not disputing the fact that you can go to fire an employee.
I'm not, we're not, I don't think anyone here is saying you cannot physically do that.
You legally are able to most of the time, for exceptions, of course.
But the point is, if you're saying that the mean, the mean-spirited tweets are
are what got Gavin fired.
What's more mean-spirited than saying,
I don't give an F about Ashley Babbitt,
who is in Jan 6?
Can I, can I?
Can I, can I?
You guys are assuming that I've seen all of these tweets that you're bringing up.
I don't,
I don't comb through and dig through and monitor and police my employee's tweets all the time.
No one's assuming.
That's why we're informing you.
The point here is that you have like,
You had to look for tweets from other people.
I think this is the point that Seth's making.
You have to look for like individual one-off tweets from other people,
whereas what Seth was observing was like a consistent, like, daily pattern of behavior.
And that was the problem because like you didn't know about what you were talking about.
And I'm not excusing vulgarity on other people's behalf.
Look, if other people are engaging in that kind of rhetoric online with a bee in their bio,
then I've got a problem with that too.
So there are some conversations that need to be had there, sure.
But not to anywhere near the extent that we had with this person.
Wait, wait, wait.
I mean, let me ask a Trump like Tara.
Tara, you obviously most likely believe that the reason why the firing occurred is because Babylon B has some kind of relationship around this and us.
I mean, am I right to think that that's your feeling?
Right. Okay. So what is the...
What relationship do we have?
Yeah, yeah, that's what I was going to ask. So, Tyra, what relationship do they have?
In your imagination, what relationship do we have?
Well, there's documentation, and you just admitted live that you've received money from DeSantis.
So there's that.
Has Trump given you guys any money in the past or ever?
I told Trump that he could one up DeSantis by spending twice as much with us, and I would welcome that.
Okay, okay.
Well, then maybe you would have kept his supporters on your payroll.
But it does seem that there is a railroading going on.
There is a definite, you know, support for DeSantis.
And if you don't, you're basically going to be...
you know, pushed out and gas-will and pulled that you're mean-tweeting.
That's your imagination.
But it isn't mean-tweeting.
I've searched Gavin's tweets.
He doesn't do that.
You claim that he does all these things.
Gavin's not even here to defend himself, which I would appreciate if he was invited.
He was, you know.
Okay, great.
So it would be awesome.
if he would come in and actually have a platform to defend himself.
Not but he was,
Tara,
yeah, I think that he should come in and have the opportunity to do that.
So, yeah,
yes, absolutely.
I'm here and the accusation is that I'm working with DeSantis.
I'm on his payroll.
Yes, he rented our list in 2021.
I would love for any candidates to, you know, if he becomes the nominee or Trump becomes the nominee, I hope they spend money with us and reach more people through our audience.
We need to defeat Biden in this next election.
So I would welcome that money, not just because it's profitable, but because it goes towards an important, impactful cause.
Seth, I welcome you.
When DeSantis was running as a governor.
Tweet that Gavin.
Yeah.
Hold on.
No, no, no, no. I'm going to let Seth finish.
Sorry, I'm not going to keep interrupting.
Go ahead, Seth.
I'm not sure what I was saying.
I guess I was speaking to the spend, the budget.
You know, it's Governor DeSantis was renting our lists while running his campaign for reelection.
And so I don't see, I don't know why that's a problem when it's with the Babylon B. Why is it a problem? Why does that suddenly mean that we're compromised? It doesn't mean, as some have tried to imply that we make jokes at Trump's expense, but not his. But it just means that we send emails on his behalf.
That's all that means.
And those...
Your jokes were cut off of that.
His expense are coddling.
You're literally coddling him.
They're not even funny.
It's like you're feeling sorry for the guy, which I mean, I do too at this point.
But it doesn't seem like you're actually, you know, picking at him like you guys do with Trump now, which you didn't before when you had...
all of his support.
So does anyone else here think it's wild how worked up you all?
We're a satire site.
We make jokes on the internet.
I just want to pipe in and say, Gavin will have a job in Congress if you want.
You guys are taking everything so seriously.
Yeah, I have a question.
We are.
You fired a job in Congress if he needs it.
So we're going to look out for him.
I stand with Gavin Wax.
Yeah, I have a question, Seth.
Can I ask a quick question?
Because Joel sent me a tweet that Seth had made right after January 6th, where Seth had actually said the MAGA assault on the capital and the left assault on free speech are both bad.
Then in this very space, Seth, you also mentioned the word cult and said, basically, anybody questioning you, are you part of some cult?
Do you think MAGA is a cult?
And do you believe that J6?
It's clearly not what he said.
No, no, it was actually.
Let him answer the question.
Do you think MAGA is a cult and do you believe the assault on the Capitol was orchestrated by Trump supporters and not by crooked January 6th police and other people on the inside?
I don't think that MAGA as a whole is a cult.
No, I think that there are people in both the DeSantis and Trump camps right now who are really nasty to the other side
and are looking for any way that they can to attack them and belittle them.
There are people who, if there's anything that you do, it's happening right now in this conversation,
anything that you do that could possibly be perceived as support for DeSantis or not support for Trump
means you must be attacked.
You must be silence.
Everyone must unfollow you.
I don't know.
I've been tagged in a thousand posts today from people saying that they need to unfollow the B because I'm a dissimp.
I'm a dissimp.
Well, that is just people acting in lockstep for political reasons without using their heads and thinking or asking any critical questions.
Fortunately, there's a conversation that's being had right now, and I've been given a floor to talk and respond to some of this, which I appreciate.
Thank you.
but yeah, I think that there's there's crazies on all sides, both on the left and the right.
There are people who act without thinking.
There are people who are really nasty and unfair.
This is politics.
Unfortunately, politics is dirty.
I would hope that Christians, people self-professed Christians, wouldn't behave that way and get into all of that with all the...
the personal insults and the nastiness and the name calling, but it happens.
And everything is treated as a betrayal.
There are a lot of people in the Trump camp who will treat anything as a betrayal.
I see a lot of them here listening.
Some of them are listed as speakers.
And, you know, it's just, it's not right.
It's not right.
People are free in this country to support and vote for whoever they want to.
And there are people who will hear me say that and think that that means I'm a DeSantis supporter.
And that's exactly proving my point.
So do you think J6 was a MAGA assault on the capital?
Heather, Heather, I would like to let me in real quick.
Seth probably just directed a comment that may.
And I've had nothing but a good relationship with Seth each time.
That's true.
That's true.
We've met.
I think you're a solid guy.
And I'm going to give you the benefit and the doubt that you're not on DeSantis's payroll.
Obviously, you've done business with him in the past.
But there's people...
on DeSantis' team, such as Max Nordot, who make it their job to docks, troll, and harass anybody that is...
Wait, hold on, correction. I don't work for DeSantis and...
And so, so, Max, I need you to... No, no, A.B., I need you to retract what you just said. I don't work for him. I received no money from him.
Are you going to retract what you said about Gavin that sparks this entire thing, Max? Are you going to retract that? Why should he have to retract what he just said?
What did I say that was incorrect?
Okay, please, Max, can you let the adults speak?
No, no.
Anyway.
You retract what you said.
You just lied about me.
No, no, I mean, retract what you said.
You lied.
You said I worked for Descentus.
I sympathize.
I sympathize this.
Would you like to do?
Okay, yeah, we can't have people talking over each other here.
I'm going to let Alex finish.
I will let you defend yourself, Max, but I got to let Alex finish.
Go ahead, Alex.
Thank you, Nick.
But I do sympathize with Seth with the screenshot of the crop payment dates.
You know, Team Desantis likes to throw out this screenshot that I was paid $35,000 by Save America
Pack in 2022 for projects related to different midterm election races.
Had nothing to do with 2024.
But Team Desantis calls me the $35,000 man.
In reality, they should be calling me the $3,500 man because after...
uh, expenses and profit margin.
It was only 10% in profit margin off of Save America Pact.
So I've never been paid by President Trump to support him.
the DeSantis camp.
and Seth,
I know that you're friends with Jenna.
I think that you've privately expressed,
you know, distaste for some of the comments that I've made towards your friend, Jenna, to mutual friends of ours.
And you ultimately unfollowed me on Twitter because of that. But Jenna has been spreading vicious
lies about Trump supporters for many months as well. And she goes unchecked. And so for about a year
and a half, DeSantis had this influencer army that was lying about Trump.
attacking the mega movement,
and about seven months ago,
Trump supporters started fighting back,
and people don't like it anymore.
So I think Gavin Wax is a good guy.
I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
And Seth, knowing you,
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt as well,
but it would be a...
a lot more believable that this wasn't related to politics if team desantis hasn't spent the last many months
calling people's employers flagging tweets of random people to their employers calling clients including clients of mind encouraging them to end business relationships with me
and so the way that the team desantis acts is in a very mob-like fashion
And so, you know, it's very disappointed that you're in the middle of this now,
that Gavin's in the middle of this now.
I think this could all be avoided if King DeSantis wasn't so nasty.
Yeah, okay. Let me just respond really quickly. I mean, Alex, you and I have only ever had positive interaction. I don't think we've ever had a negative interaction. So I agree with that. You know, I don't like seeing a lot of this stuff, this constant fighting, the accusations all day long, the political infighting that's going on from one side, lobbying bombs over at the other.
If I unfollowed you, it's because I just don't like seeing that all day long.
You know, it's, I could have muted you, I guess, but I, I don't like that.
I, you know, it's, it's, I didn't like it, uh, when Gavin was doing it either.
I mean, it's, it's just, it's, but it, ultimately what it comes down to is, you know, this idea that, that the Santa's has this, the Santa's team has this mob mentality, whatever.
Yeah.
The Trump side has that too.
You guys do that too.
You guys, it happens to me.
I'm on the recent.
You said you empathize with me?
Well, it's happening to me too.
It's not right when anybody does it on either side.
I don't condone it on either side.
Jenna doesn't work for me.
I wasn't defending Jenna in any of those comments.
I was addressing the behavior of a specific person.
So, you know, it's the conversation about...
Sorry, I need to get dogs coming out here.
The conversation around which side is worse is not interesting to me.
I voted for Trump multiple times.
The country was better off when he was running it.
Yeah.
You know, I'm good friends with people in the Trump family.
And so, you know, this idea that I, that I view MAGA as a whole as a cult, and I'm on DeSantis' team is just, it's just silly.
I'm not bought and paid by DeSantis.
I don't know why this is such, this whole, like I said before, the Babylon B is a satire site.
We make jokes at everyone's expense, this idea that, oh, we're really hands off with DeSantis, but we go really hard on Trump.
Like, Trump is a, is a fun guy to make jokes about, and he's always had a good spirit about it.
We've been friends with the Trump family for a long time, and he's loved the Babylon Bee for a long time.
So nothing has changed from our end in terms of our stance towards Trump or his family or his team at all.
I'm talking about this behavior of specific individuals.
There are documents claiming that you get paid.
One second, Tara.
Just to clarify, we have asked Gavin, because someone mentioned it earlier,
we have asked him to come on.
We actually invited him before we even invited Seth.
He said he's going to try and come on,
so he has been given the opportunity to give his side,
and it's up to him if he wants to turn up or not.
I don't know that it would be appropriate for he and I
to be going head to head in here.
So when he gets on, I can get off, and he can say his piece.
Yeah, yeah.
I just wanted to ask.
I'll ask really quick in regard to the payments that you received from DeSantis.
There are documents that Laura Lumer has shared saying that it was more than just a list rental,
that it was that you were being paid for consulting and speech slash joke writing.
Can you confirm or deny that?
You're talking about Laura Lumer?
Is that what you said?
Uh-huh. I'm talking about more importantly, I'm talking about the payments that were received from Ron DeSantis. You claim it was just for list rentals, but she claims that you told her via text message and there's documentation here that it was more than that. It was also payment from DeSantis's PAC for consulting and speech slash joke writing.
Yeah, well, for one thing, I don't think you should listen to anything that Laura Lumer says.
So can you confirm or deny if that's true or are you going to pass?
The payments that everybody is sharing, those are from 2021 in their list rental payments.
Everybody cropped off the dates and is trying to sell a narrative.
And we are not being paid by DeSantis.
Can I try to bring it back because...
Dodge the question.
Well, come on.
Yeah, so I will go.
Yeah, go ahead.
And then I'm going to go to all for those after that.
Okay.
Yeah, because the whole...
The recover points that were being made before about what we were saying and insinuating.
The...
He said before, it's not about the volume.
He said it's about the spirit of things.
And then later on he said he had a pattern of doing it.
So, like, I'm kind of unclear if it's like a pattern or not because you've said he was tweeting on your, you know, you're paying him to tweet mean things.
And then he said before that it's just a, the spirit of the tweets were the issue that was going on.
Were, did you pull Messiah at any point before this and say, could you lay off the mean spirited tweets?
And I guess the other questions, too, it's more so about Jan 6th because.
there are tweets from that one tweet talking about that they don't person
doesn't give an F about Ashley about it being shot.
And that I think is the most mean-spirited thing ever.
And I'm not saying that you have any knowledge of all the tweets your employees do.
I'm not saying that you have,
you go through every single employee's Twitter and you read every single reply
and quote tweet and like that they do.
But now that you're aware of it, what do you think that's like mean-spirited?
And what are your thoughts about that?
I think he left as soon as Laura entered the chat.
I think Laura Luma has the tendency to scare people.
He left as soon as I entered the chat because that's what happens when you talk shit
and then everybody blows my phone up.
So if you're going to talk shit about me in a Twitter space,
you better be able to, you know, like have the balls to stay on so I can confront you head on.
You know what I'm going to do tonight when I get home because I'm out right now?
I'm going to post all of the text messages that I have from Seth Dillon where he was blowing me up
acting like such a nice Christian boy.
Right.
By the way, why is he pretending to be Christian when he's Jewish?
I have all the screenshots of him saying that he's an Ashkenazi Jew,
yet he pretends like Babylon B is a Christian site.
So I'm going to...
We are not going to go into that.
Why not? He's a liar.
Why not?
He's a liar.
He's pretending to be a Christian and he has post that he says he's Jewish.
It's Babylon be a Christian site like they tell all their donors, like a satirical Christian site.
Why is he larping?
Just like he pretends that he's so pro-free speech and that everybody should have the right to, you know, say what they want to say.
But then he's going to fire somebody for criticizing DeSantis.
He lost his shit.
I was in California at the time when I was like...
when I broke the story about him receiving money from DeSantis.
And I woke up and I had text messages at three o'clock in the morning like,
fuck you.
You're not a fucking journalist.
You fucking bitch.
But Laura, let me, let me ask you, okay.
So we do have Seth Dillon back real quick.
And I will do with your concerns here.
I would rather, you know, what I do.
I'm glad that, I'm glad that he finally grew a pair of balls to come back and face me out on.
Because if he's going to talk about me directly, then he should face it.
I mean, I'm just, I'm not going to set back.
So let, let me.
We're not going to do.
We're not going to do that.
I'm going to get the chance to defend himself.
Because he was.
Yep.
Go ahead, Seth.
Yeah, I, sorry guys, I have a pretty bad connection, and I'm about to be heading into a dinner, so I can't stay much longer.
But I wasn't bringing up Laura Lumer.
Someone asked me about her, and I don't know what I missed.
You said that nobody should listen to anything I said.
You said no one should listen to anything Laura Lumer said.
I mean, it looks like it looks like President Trump.
It looks like President Trump listened to what I said.
Well, I think, Laura, I think he even posted the receipts that I, that I exposed, right?
It looks like President Trump listened.
Meanwhile, you were trying to stab him in the back when you were having dinner with him
while not disclosing the fact that you were on DeSantis's payroll.
I mean, why don't you talk about that?
Was that before or after he unhired you?
I don't know.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do ad hominin attacks.
I'm not sure what I'm responding to.
President Trump never unhired me.
He hired me in his office and then disloyal leakers and staffers decided to run to the New York
Times to plan to hit piece about me.
So I don't know like what.
Like you're trying to like celebrate cancel culture and hit pieces by Maggie Haberman.
Is that what you what you want to talk about, Seth?
Because as far as I know, like I'm incredibly loyal and effective in my support for President Trump.
And, you know, I think I'm the I'm the person who he ended up getting those expenditures reports from.
that show that you received over $21,000 from DeSantis.
And then you photographed yourself at Mar-a-Lago with President Trump in an effort to make it seem like you're a Trump supporter.
And then what?
You're just not going to tell President Trump in his own home that you're working for DeSantis.
So, yeah, make fun of me all you want.
But I sleep well at night knowing that at least I have my integrity and my loyalty.
I mean, Seth, go ahead, respond.
I'm not sure what there is to respond to.
I mean, Laura is one of those, Laura's one of the people that I was talking about before.
We're all day long.
All she does is talk about how she's loyal Lumer.
She's loyal to Trump.
She attacks anybody that she thinks is not in Trump's camp.
She's hostile and she's nasty.
And I don't follow her for the same reason.
I don't follow some other people who do the same thing.
I'm not hostile and nasty.
I'm just factual and trickle and you can't take the...
one second guys.
I just want to ask something to Seth,
which you mentioned,
and I do think he needs a chance to respond to it.
one of the things Laura said when you dropped was that essentially you are not a Christian
you're basically using it as a grift to be able to get donations you're actually Jewish and so
this is in a lot of it's a scam so if I mean I think you do need a chance to respond because
this is a major space like hundreds of thousands of people man I think that says a lot more
about her than me on my mother's side my mother's Ashkenazi Jewish I'm I'm like 60
something percent Ashkenazi so by blood I'm Jewish according to Jewish people I'm Jewish
but I'm a Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ came and died for our sins and rose from the dead and paid the price for them that we can't pay ourselves.
And for that reason, I have saving faith in Jesus Christ is my Savior.
I don't know why she would attack my religion.
I don't know why that's relevant to anything.
I'm not attacking your religion.
I'm just reading your direct tweets from Twitter.
I just said it's really interesting how he says he's a Christian,
but I'm looking at your tweets right now.
Like, I just wanted you to clarify.
I mean, if you, if you converted, then that's your, you know, your choice.
I have no criticism for that.
See, like, what does this have to do with Gavin in the topic of this forum?
Who's running the forum?
Yeah.
No, I was just pointing it out.
And what am I, what did my tweets say that's inconsistent with my Christianity?
I said, I'm Jewish.
I mean, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,
this is what are you are you a messian?
This is not, it's not, it's not, it's not relevant this.
Like, look, the only reason I brought it up was just to give Seth a chance, because it would
have made his organization look really bad.
And so he had a chance to basically correct.
Am I is, is it bad if I'm Jewish?
No, no, I'm Jewish.
I don't have a problem with it.
I mean, she's Jewish as well.
She made the accusation that you were grifting.
That's awful.
What a sleazy thing.
God.
Babylon B is constantly talking about how, you know, it's a Christian site and, you know,
you don't use profanity.
And one of the things that people were.
So a Jew can't work there?
Are you saying a Jew can't work at a Christian company?
That's not what I said.
what did you say what do you so what what are you what Gavin Gavin wax is just from what I
understand so my point is is I just think that Babylon B presents itself in a way that really
isn't consistent with like the brand you guys are trying to sell like what is that how do we
present I think I said okay so today so you you you said in response to Gavin right you said oh
that's really not acceptable you can take the B out of your account now
And then I'll just read you one of your other tweets since, you know, I'll pull it up for you and you can see how inconsistent this is.
You know, you constantly talked about censorship and the woke virus and how people shouldn't be banned.
You said in a tweet posted on August.
Yeah, we already went over this.
We've been over this before you joined.
If you're afraid you might get fired for speaking your mind, the solution is to speak your mind anyway.
Okay.
If no one is willing to take that risk, nothing is going to change.
Yes, and I don't know what that has to do with my Jewish heritage or my Christian faith
or the firing of Gavin, who is fired for his conduct.
Oh, I'm not criticizing you for being Jewish.
I'm Jewish myself.
So you're trying to, like, you know, play victim card right now when I simply pointed out the fact that, like, you said you're a Christian,
but then I read your post that said you're Jewish.
So I was just wondering, like, which one was?
Guys, what's going on?
Is anyone else confused?
This is.
Yeah, so actually, Laura, I actually want to...
Let me ask this question to...
Go ahead.
Okay, so the issue is this.
I mean, it's irrelevant.
I mean, the only reason I brought up to Seth was so you had a chance to clarify.
One second, all of them.
Yeah, we really don't need to talk about it more.
I just simply point out.
Yeah, yeah, that's not relevant. Laura, the bit...
One second. One second, Laura, one second.
We've covered some of those texts you've said.
So if you've got something different to essentially ask in terms of something...
Yeah, just so she can hear my...
my response to the inconsistency.
Laura,
let me respond.
I came on to defend myself
because people said that you shouldn't talk,
you shouldn't listen to anything that Laura says.
But as far as I'm concerned,
like I'm the one that broke the story
about your expenditure reports.
So I broke the story in February.
So this isn't really like new information.
Like I said,
there are several news publications
that picked up the fact that,
You know, I reported on it, and then President Trump even posted it on truth social.
So I think that I have a right to comment on this since you were talking about me and said that people shouldn't take anything that I said seriously.
Like, I'm the one that dug up those expenditures.
Okay.
Okay. Let me respond to a couple of things really quick.
Okay.
So the inconsistency was already dealt with.
This is not an issue where someone gave an opinion and I didn't like their opinion, so I fired them.
You know, this is an issue of a repeated pattern of conduct that, you know, I don't want somebody who is behaving that way representing my company with our name and their bio.
I don't know what that has to do with my Jewishness or my Christianist or whatever point was trying to be made there, but that's...
ridiculous as far as desantis goes okay let me finish let me finish let me finish laura laura
laura you need a let me finish because then you both talk yeah you're trying to find inconsistency where
there is none there's such a thing as a jewish christian okay and deal with it um now the the other thing
this this issue with desantis i was recently at a uh i was asked to speak at a press conference
for desantis he was announcing his digital bill of rights and he
And he asked me to speak about our experience with censorship, and I gladly did that.
I'm happy to coordinate with my governor.
I think he's a great governor.
I like DeSantis a lot.
I think he does a great job here in Florida.
I think that most of the attacks that are lobbed at him from Trump's side are off base.
And I have a lot of respect for him.
I think he's done a great job here.
So I've been proud to work with him
in whatever capacity I've been able to.
Same with Trump.
When Trump invited me to Mar-a-Lago, I was honored.
It was one of the greatest nights in my life
getting to go there and have dinner with him.
That was so unbelievably cool.
And I proudly posted a picture of it.
And I proudly posted that I was with DeSantis.
I'm not ashamed to be affiliated with either of them.
And I think it's insane that everybody acts like you're betraying one or the other of them by liking either or the other one of them.
It's just absolute madness.
You guys are crazy.
And I'll make fun of you on the Babylon B port.
Begans to see, though, I was trying to use me.
You left before I was able to ask the, or finish the question.
The issue goes before you said that it was not a volume issue of tweets, but because someone was mean-spirited.
And neither is saying it was because of the volume, but you referred to the past of a pattern of it.
So you said before that's not the volume, but now you're saying it was the pattern for it.
And the other point also was they were talking about mean-spirited things.
No one here is claiming that you read every single employee tweet and every single employee reply and every single employee retweet and quote tweet or whatever they do.
We're not assorting that.
But what we're talking about, though, is when we have examples...
of this that we bring up and show you, that's kind of how we want you to respond.
Guys, okay, nobody here cares whether I'm consistent in enforcing our employee rulebook.
What you guys care about is whether or not somebody, you can find an excuse to smear somebody as pro DeSantis and tear them down.
And that's ultimately what, that's ultimately why everyone's up in a frenzy about this.
It's why you've got all these people who are like, I'm with, I'm with Gavin, I'm with Gavin.
This was a personnel matter.
I made the right call.
I don't regret that I did it.
I do it again.
And it was about behavior.
It was a recurring pattern of behavior that I didn't like,
associated with our brand.
And that's my decision to make.
And that's the end of the conversation.
Like, you guys can have your feelings about it if you want to.
We're a satire site.
We're going to make fun of everybody.
We're going to continue to poke fun at DeSantis.
We're going to continue to poke fun at Trump.
If any of them want to pay us for list rentals, great.
We'll take it.
I'll take twice as much from Trump as I took from DeSantis.
But it's not a list rental, Seth.
Like, you even told me in the text message that...
You're a consultant for DeSantis.
I have those text messages.
You said you could consider us speechwriters for DeSantis.
We help him find funny angles.
So you're trying to tell people that this is about list rentals when you actually said that you are a speech writer for him.
So what is it?
Are you a speech writer or they list rentals?
Yeah.
So we had a non-confidentiality agreement and I had an off-the-record conversation with you that you leaked.
It wasn't. It actually was never off the record. I have the entire. It was. I asked if you were speaking to me as a journalist or not. So I was trying to determine if we were on the record or not. You did not. I said yes. It's in the text, but whatever. Everybody's going to see the truth when I post them later. It's fine. So go on. You better not post our text, Laura. That's unbelievable. I can.
post them. I can post the text messages. They're not confidential text messages. Like, people deserve to see it. If you're being honest, you shouldn't care about people seeing the text messages, but you're not being honest. I am being honest. I think it's wrong for you to have leaked to the conversation in the first place when I asked if you were engaging me as a journalist or as a friend who had questions. I
I asked you that question.
I told her you as a journalist.
We're not friends.
Can I say I think it's really awesome, though, that Seth is at least up here taking these Q&As.
I give him predile to that.
You should give your boy Ron some notes because I heard he likes to read from scripts.
I think transparency is good.
I don't think that anybody should.
I should, you know, I've gotten plenty of text messages from people.
I can make them look bad if I leak them.
I don't think that, I don't think that anybody should be doing that.
But I also don't think that that conversation should have been made public in the first place.
As far as...
I'm not trying to actually get the truth out there.
Because you keep saying literrentals when you specifically said you write speeches for disbando.
That's different.
Wait, hold on.
The thing was because you made...
So, Seth, you made an assertion about me.
I never, you know, as of right now, I've never said anything about you being pro, whatever.
You never heard that in my space or out my mouth right now.
I don't know who's speaking.
I'm sorry.
Who's speaking?
Yeah.
chief of chief is um you because i never said that words to you uh in the space um but uh the point more so
was it's it's just about the fact that um
There if it was a confusion about it was a pattern or if it was just mean-spirited tweets because you said different things in this space and I'm not disagreeing if you have a right to fire whoever you want because you're a private business.
I'm not no one's disputing that.
But it's more so about if we have other more serious examples of things, I could be looked to.
And it's about Jan 6, about Ashley Babbitt in that language.
That in itself is a bigger issue than some tweet from someone saying F off.
Again, I don't think most of the people here are concerned with whether or not I'm being consistent with myself.
I mean, really?
You guys have ever spent your whole day talking about and you're worried about whether I'm consistent with myself?
Now, but Seth, just to explain that, because essentially what happens is when people think that maybe you have got some kind of biases, I get for Dicentas or trouble.
Yeah, that's what it's about. Exactly. That's what it's about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course it is.
And so what I keep saying.
Yeah, yeah. But then in order to find out if you've got that biases, then what people do is look at your actions in other contexts.
So if your actions in other contexts are not consistent,
then it just adds to their argument that essentially this is
across DeSantis anti-Trump action.
Do you get what I mean?
So that's what the argument is.
So essentially, that's why people are trying to understand why.
Yeah, and I don't know why we need to have a more detailed discussion
other than me saying, no, it wasn't.
It's not about DeSantis.
It does it not about Trump.
If he had been attacking Trump people from a DeSantis perspective,
it would have been the same outcome.
How is that not an answer that is satisfactory to anybody here?
So can I ask you a question, though, on that?
So are you, you know, because I think just trying going a little bit earlier with this whole, I think, speak your mind, woke virus, et cetera.
One, do you feel like you kind of encourage your employees?
And specifically, you have an example that might have been more aggressive because of kind of that culture that you might have permitted.
And then, two, looking in the future, then what policies as the owner of Babel and Lee are you going to put in place?
to ensure that something like this doesn't happen
and people accuse you of this
of being a political attack
rather than trying to maintain
at least the Babylon BEM age
and some sort of ethical standard.
I think we have ethical standards.
I think that's what this was about
in the first place.
I was enforcing ethical standards.
As far as what we'll do in the future,
I do think that we need...
You know, we, I don't want any of my people to feel muzzled in any way that they can't express themselves.
But I do think that there should be conduct that they, that they adhere to if they're going to have the bees name in their bio and they're going to be publicly listed as working for us.
And there's certain certain conduct standards they should adhere to.
we are a Christian organization, regardless of whatever Laura Lumer might say, we are.
And that matters to us.
And I think we have it right for that to matter to us.
And so, you know, the suggestion that there are people who work for us now or have worked for us in the past who have said bad things, sure.
I've said bad things.
I've said things that I regret.
This was not a one-off situation, though.
And so it was dealt with in a way that I think was necessary.
So you can feel about that however you want to.
You know, it has nothing to do with Trump or DeSantis.
And that's what all this has been turned into.
It's been turned into a, you know, we're DeSimps.
We're on their payroll, you know, and that's what everybody is trying to say.
It has not whatever, it doesn't matter.
If a campaign pays you for a specific task or a specific email rental or whatever it is,
That doesn't mean that you're in their pocket and you're going to do what they say.
Nobody from DeSantis' team has ever given me an order or implied such or ever will give me an order that I will comply with because I'm on their payroll.
First of all, we're not on their payroll at all for anything.
and if any campaign were paying us for any services or list rentals,
it would not mean that they have control of us.
It simply means that we provide the services that they're paying for.
And that never includes, that never, ever, ever includes...
us writing jokes that they want us to write at someone else's expense on our website.
We would never write satire because someone is behind the scenes paying us to write satirical jokes at someone else's expense.
Our writers write whatever they think is funny.
And you guys can make up whatever fantastical stories in your minds you want to about that.
We are a comedy site.
We're going to make fun of everybody.
You all take this way too seriously.
You're all at each other's throats way too much.
Chill out a little bit.
And this idea, it all comes back to, you know, oh, was this because of the sense or whatever.
I mean, guys...
If Gavin had been a hardcore Desantis supporter, and I was publicly out there saying I was voting for DeSantis, I wouldn't treat him any differently than I would anybody else.
If I was hardcore out there saying I'm voting for Trump and DeSantis is Hitler like everybody says or David Duke or whatever.
It would still be the same outcome.
It's about behavior.
It has nothing to do with the politics.
And so, I don't know, everybody's making this into a big thing.
This was a personnel matter.
That's it.
And you can try to say that the B is in DeSantis's pocket and make this stuff up.
I've refuted it.
I explicitly deny it.
And so, you know, there will be a time down the road, I'm sure, when campaigns will spend money with us.
But it doesn't mean that we do what they say when it comes to the type of content that we produce.
It doesn't even mean that we're voting for them.
I have people on my team who won't vote for either of the candidates that we're talking about.
And that's fine.
And I would like to know from the people here who are so worked up.
about the possibility that we might be, might be in DeSantis' pocket.
Therefore, we have to be destroyed, and everyone should unfollow us,
and I'm done with the Babylon B.
Why do you guys think it's not okay for someone to support DeSantis?
Why is that not okay?
Is this not a free country?
You guys are trying to come down on me for censorship,
but you're trying to coerce everybody to be in lockstep with you and your preferred candidate?
You can support whoever you want, but it's just, it's not.
Well said.
It's dishonest.
Thank you.
We weren't saying to unfollow the fees.
They're mad at you for not supporting Trump.
Yeah, we weren't saying that.
It's just dishonest.
Everybody who's piling on is saying that.
You can find it a trillion tweets right now.
We were trending today because people were saying that.
And while we're at it, like, Lumer, like, you accused Casey DeSantis of faking her cancer.
So, like, you're not a reliable source.
Hey, Max, you just accused me of being an international heroin dealer, you fucking wrong.
No, I didn't.
Yes, you did.
It's, I said you worked, no.
I said you were an unregistered foreign agent.
Guys, guys, look, this is not like some personal beef.
The main reason is we brought people up to ask questions specifically about Seth.
I believe he's answered.
Yeah, I think I've answered a lot of them.
Guys, I got to wrap up because my family's waiting for me to join them for dinner.
I want to be transparent with you guys.
You know, it's...
This is a, politics is messy, but I hope we can all agree that we love our country and we love our freedom.
You know, I'm running my own business the way that I think that I should.
Everyone should respect my rights, not just run my business the way that I should, but to be able to vote for whatever a candidate I want to.
And it doesn't.
doesn't mean by saying that that I'm going to vote for DeSantis and a lot of people will interpret it that way.
I'm just saying people are free in this country to do what they want.
And there's so many people in this space right now and so many people on Twitter who don't want anyone to be free to vote for someone else.
They want to coerce them and pressure them and penalize them if they so much as hint that.
that they might be supporting somebody else.
And like it's a big scandal that we've had any relationship with DeSantis.
He's my governor. I love him.
I've been to the, I've been to the governor's mansion.
I've been to events that he's been at.
I've been to events that he's been at.
I've been to sit at tables next to him, fundraising tables.
I spent tens of thousands of dollars supporting his campaign.
I'm not ashamed of any of that.
You're not going to get me to apologize for any of that.
And I've supported Trump.
All right.
Sorry, that's...
And I've supported Trump all the way through.
So, you know, it's just...
You guys, this false dichotomy
that you have to be in one camp or the other,
and you're the enemy if you're not,
I think everybody needs to grow up,
be more mature, especially be more spiritually mature,
be kinder to other people.
And we'll all be better for it.
Got to run, guys. Thank you.
So, Seth, I just want to thank you for me.
I want to appreciate it.
And I think we need to give you a lot of credit
because essentially you have come on here.
You've answered a number of questions.
Much of them have been emotive.
Some of them have been personal.
You've answered every single question.
So I do appreciate it.
And look, there's going to be like maybe 400,000 people listening
who will listen to this after playback as well.
So I think you should be commended and more people should do the same thing that you've done.
So I do appreciate.
I'll give you credit for being full on and answer all the questions.
I'm going to pass it over to Nick, though.
Nick, go ahead.
I think you've got, you want to, you want to move on.
Yep, I'll say the same thing.
Thank you, Seth.
Really appreciate you coming here.
I have a lot of respect for that fact.
I want to shift topics just a little bit here.
Well, Pivot, we have Mayor Rudy Giuliani on stage as well.
He was the former mayor of New York during 9-11.
And I want to ask, you know, so what do you, what are you thinking right now?
I know you've seen it.
It's the great Twitter war among Republicans, you know, Desantis versus Trump.
What are your overall thoughts on that?
He might actually not be here.
He's been waiting for a while.
So, you know, I'll text them and try to get him back on.
But Dr. Gorka, everything you just heard right now about the Babylon B, everything, all the questions for Seth.
His response is what are your thoughts?
I'll be quick because I'm just picking up my door at the airport.
I commend Seth.
uh it's america it's a private company um even if he's pro de santis so what that's his choice
and i have to agree with suleiman as well that this is uh
you know, a level of transparency you wouldn't get from most CEOs.
So I commend him.
Maybe there's more to the story, but good for him for coming on on the space.
And look, at the end of the day, you know me.
I'm President Trump's former deputy assistant.
I'm.
I'm going to vote for him.
I'm going to rally for him.
I'll work for him if he wants me to work for him again.
But at the end of the day, this is America.
So let's just, what did Seth say?
Just chill a little.
Just dial it back a bit.
I have serious problems for DeSantis.
I think he's got an honor deficit.
But at the end of the day, it's America.
And if Seth wants to do that, he gets to do that.
Can I respond real quick?
Yeah, go ahead.
Sure, sure, go.
I just think, like, because everyone knows, like, I'm obviously Trump supporter.
I don't care if people support Descanus.
I don't even care if people support Democrats.
Like, I'm, like, American through and through.
You vote for whoever you want.
I think it's sort of unfair for him to be like, oh, everyone needs to chill,
because in reality, nobody was boycotting the Babylon B or thinking about unfollowing them
because they supported desantis before like we already knew they were sort of leaning more towards
desantis but we also followed him people are talking about unfollow him because specifically because
they believe he targeted one of his employees for his beliefs so it's almost like he's trying to
deflect and be like oh no don't boycott baby because of my you know because you think we're
desantis it's like no that's not why people are boycotting people are talking about boycotting
because they think you're punishing people for
for their beliefs.
So I just wanted to set the record a little straight there.
I do give him so much credit though for being up here taking those questions.
Some people in my DM say he just doesn't want to get bud lighted and is doing some damage
control.
I don't know.
Either way, I give him credit.
I don't think we'd see that sort of live Q&A hot seat type stuff from DeSantis.
So maybe he can pass the word along and give him a little, a few notes.
I will say though, because, you know, points for being made in that, you know, I do, you know,
respect that he did have the guts to, you know, not be scripted and, you know, appear on a space
and talk with all of us.
But the issue, the issue still kind of stands, though, in terms of, you know, more about
questions like how, how many time did he talk to Gavin about this?
He said it was a pattern.
Yeah.
And if this will be, if any more enforcement will be happening with other employees who've tweeted out things like that they don't give enough about Ashley Babbage's death and other, some other things that were a bit more, even worse than that too.
So it's a matter of whether that happens or not, but I do commend him for standing up in the space.
But those questions are still a bit unanswered.
But maybe I've Gavin up here.
That'd be cool.
Did you guys message him already?
I can try messaging.
Oh, yeah.
We have several times.
I would like to just read the post, by the way, just because, you know, there were a lot of the, there was a lot of deflecting in his comments when I was bringing up, um...
you know, all of those different points.
But this is the post that President Trump posted on Truth Social.
He said, why is Ron a st.
Dementius paying the Babylon B, a non-entity, $5,000 a month so far, $21,500 if he's not running for president?
Just because his poll numbers are tanking, probably because of his desire to cut Social Security and Medicare,
doesn't allow him to campaign without an announcement.
Right.
You don't spend that much money on the Babylon B if you're running for governor.
In fact, you don't spend that much money on the Babylon B if you're running for anything.
So, you know, I think it's very disingenuous to say, oh, well, you know, we're not, we're not, you know, doing anything other than list rentals for any candidate.
I have an email list, okay?
And I'll just tell you right now.
You know, they don't come in payments of $21,000.
And I've rented my list to lots of people, okay?
Lots of members of Congress, lots of conservative pundits,
and there's never a singular list rental payment for $21,000.
That's not how it works.
And like I said, I have the text messages where he admits to me and you're going to see for yourself when they're, they've already been posted.
They were posted when I broke the story in February that he says you could consider us speech writing consultants for Desantis.
We write speeches for him.
So how are you a satire site if you're writing speeches for a politician who's running a shadow campaign against President Trump?
Like, let's not be naive.
So...
Yeah, he says, we're friends.
He says we're friends.
Like, we're not friends.
Like, I know a lot of people in conservative media where that means we're an acquaintance.
It doesn't mean we're friends that hang out together and, you know, we don't have brunch and do things that friends do together.
Just because I know who you are and I have your number in my phone doesn't mean I consider you to be a friend.
Yeah. So I wanted to go ahead and bring up, I brought up GOP Josh here, who has, you know, publicly, very publicly over the past several days, been sparring with, I believe, one of DeSantis's senior advisors.
And this kind of ties in with the Babylon B situation, because this is when, this war has been...
It gets more intense every day.
I want your overall opinion on this, you know, how it's going.
And, you know, your encounter with the DeSantis campaign.
Well, thank you for having me. Can you hear me all right? I've never done a space before. I'm not in not trans moving. All right.
Yes, sir. Go ahead. Very cool. So thank you for having me to introduce myself. My name is GOP Josh. I host a podcast. I'm 16 years old. Not on a payroll. I am just an activist for President Trump. I support his campaign. And I made a tweet to Christina Pushall.
about her operations that she's had done, you know, that sort of thing going on with her,
with her face, you know, and she didn't like it.
She kind of responded.
She asked what my mom thinks about what I'm doing on Twitter, and I responded asking if her boss,
Ronda Santis, knows about her foreign agent connections and the way she worked for the president
of Georgia and Ukrainian officials and her loyalty to Ukraine.
And so, and I kind of think, I hope I'm not.
I feel like part of the reason.
Oh, well, hold on.
Before you keep going on that, Josh, let me ask you, what, what are you, what do you mean by that?
You're talking about her connections to Ukraine.
Did you call her a foreign national?
I said national instead of age, and I was, I was walking and typing, and I put the wrong word.
I don't think it's that major of a deal. Everyone understood the point of the tweet. Everyone understood what I was saying. And everyone understood the context behind it. And I provided the photo of her with the big Ukraine banner saying stand with Ukraine or whatever, or never give up, I think it said, with her boss's face on it. And she responded back with photos from 2012 of her boss with Donald Trump when they were doing a big thing with Trump Tower. And I don't think the connections between business and actually working for the guy are the same. That's just my opinion there.
Um, but that was the whole Ukraine thing. And I said national set of agent and I can't edit replies, obviously. And I said the wrong word and I tweeted out and it was a little late once I realized. Um, but, you know, that's a big thing there. But I feel like I hope I'm not the reason Gavin got fired from the Babylon B, but obviously doesn't seem like a great situation there, period. Um, but.
You know, that's pretty much all I have to say about it.
You know, Christina Pushall.
I kind of got her in the news.
I don't think she's in there much anyways, but, you know, I love that.
I get the Google alert for my name.
I think most people in here probably do.
And it just popped up.
Christina Pushall gets argument with 16-year-old.
And I'm like, all right, very cool.
But yeah, that's pretty much all I have to say on that regard.
But thank you for having me up and allow me to speak.
And just guys, before we go on to somebody, any comments you've got, put them on the bottom right,
do you think that Seth gave a good enough answer in terms of the questions that he received
and the answers he gave?
Or do you think that he did not cover the situation well enough and there was deflection?
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
So bottom right inside, put the comments in.
Also, if you subscribe to Mario, as you can see, it's been a mammoth now four or five spaces in a row.
and we will be doing some exclusive subscriber-only spaces.
So go to Mario's page, hit the subscribe button, it's only a dollar,
which that money, as far as I know, is going to be donated to charity.
So it's more about getting the subscribers and having a subscriber-only exclusive space with a
exclusive guests.
So, Alex, you got your hand up.
I'd like to hear your thoughts before we can get
Mayor Giuliani back on.
Yep, yeah.
He's trying to connect.
He wasn't able to connect.
So he's, you know, I'm working with him to back.
I'm going to go ahead, Alex.
Well, I'd like to applaud GOP Josh
for how he's handled all this.
He's 16 years old.
He's taking some heat from some really bizarre people.
And what I was trying to say earlier with Seth is that
The DeSantis team had a meeting in January of 2022 with a bunch of these different conservative influencers in the governor's mansion.
And every single one of those conservative influencers since then has regurgitated anti-Trump talking points,
talked about why it's time to do this or do that.
And they're very nasty for about a year and a half towards Trump.
And Trump supporters, including myself, didn't start pushing back on their lives until about seven months ago.
And it became incredibly testy, incredibly toxic.
And the DeSantis people are some of the most vicious and nasty people we've ever dealt with.
So today, I think GOP Josh struck a nerve with the foreign agent angle because they went on this tangent about all of these foreign connections to Trump's allies.
And they included a picture of me from when I was 20 years old shaking hands with some random guy in the Trump Hotel lobby.
Keep it on, 20 years old.
And John Cardillo, who is on the payroll of Team DeSantis.
He said, quote, Alex Brousowitz worked for a heroin trafficker.
And Christina Poushaw engaged with that.
And Team Desanthus engaged with that.
And Pedro Gonzalez engaged in pushing this lie that because I took a picture with somebody.
I am involved in some international drug risk.
And that's the type of crap that these people have been doing for many months.
And they will attack literally anybody if they don't bow down and shut their mouths if they support President Trump.
And they lie.
And they lie.
And they lie.
So going off of what Alex just said,
because I think it's very important for the sake of transparency,
Seth on this space said that the last payment that he received from Ronda Sanchez was for list rentals in 2021.
That's a lie.
So according to receipts that I have, you know, discovered and I'll be writing an article about this and posting this, the Rond DeSantis pack is.
changed its name recently to the Empowered Parents Pack.
And according to financial expenditure reports on the FEC,
Seth Dillon received a $40,000 payment from the Empowered Parents Pack,
which is basically the Friends of Ron DeSantis Pack,
They just changed their name to hide the fact that it's DeSantis because I'm sure if we go through the FEC, we'll see other payments like this to other influencers.
And the payment was on October 13th, 2022, which was less than a month before the election for Ron DeSantis's gubernatorial race.
So at that time, he already knew that he was running for president because he was.
as has been reported and as I know from my own conversations with donors who are on the DeSantis
finance team discussions to Ron Ron DeSantis for president have been taking place since
2021. In fact, I know a donor in Palm Beach who is personally approached to join his finance team
for his 2024 run in 2021. So I just think that if you're going to see,
you know, sweet talk people and say that, oh, well, we're a satire site and, you know, we're not in the pockets of any politician.
Well, what is he getting paid $40,000 for from the DeSantis pack a month before his gubernatorial election?
Knowing, because like I said, on election night, they were chanting two more years.
So if you watch the videos, his supporters were in the room chanting two more years as in, you know, run for president in 2024.
That's what it means when you read between the lines.
Right.
So we just have to be honest here.
Why did Ron DeSantis' pack change its name to the empowered parents pack?
Why are they taking the name DeSantis out?
You change a name of something when you're trying to conceal who that is tied to.
And, you know, for some people...
Like maybe, I don't know, like maybe they're goable.
Maybe they're going to believe this stuff.
But I don't.
Like I'm not going to sit here and, you know, be talked down to because I'm a lot smarter than that.
And I think that all of you are a lot smarter than that and you deserve the facts and you deserve the truth.
So I have these expenditure reports.
There are many news reports that have been published for all of you to see so that you can see yourself that...
Here, it was even reported by Politico this month.
Friends of Rondasantis is no more.
So they did it this month.
This month on the 18th of May is when they changed the name of the Friends of Rond
DeSantis pack to the Empowered Parents Pack.
And I guarantee you it's because if you type in Empowered Parents Pack because that's now
what it reflects in the FEC, you'll see that a ton of these social media influencers
received very large payments from the Ronda Santas Pack.
So he wasn't honest because if we're going to play back the recording of the space later, he said the last payment was 2021.
The last payment was October of 2022.
So I have sent an invite to Ashley St. Clair as well because I believe someone mentioned her text messages as well and they felt like hers were as bad as if not worse than Maxus.
So, yeah, we are inviting every single person who was involved in the situation just to give them an opportunity to express things from their perspective.
That's fine.
Can you actually acknowledge what I just said?
Because, I mean, you said that you care about transparency.
But then, you know, you just, he literally just lied in your entire space.
He said that the last payment was 2021.
So it's nice that you want to change the subject and all.
But like, can we actually, you know, engage with what I just said?
No, no, I mean, I wasn't trying to engage a subject.
I just invited a while you were talking.
But essentially, yeah, if you can post that,
then we'll put it on the nest and the people can actually see it
when they see the space as well.
Can I send it? Can I send it to you?
Yeah, yeah.
You can send it to me and I'll post it.
how do you post in the nest though that's something i've always been kind of wondering and i seem to be
struggling with your reply yeah you just yeah i mean i'll let i'll let somebody else explain that but
essentially you just post it and then there's a button on the way which is normally the share
button and then you can send it to the nest but no problem but send it to me i'll post it so um just um
I mean, Chief, sorry, go ahead.
Well, before you go to Chief Slyman, I just want to recommend,
I am actively going through the questions right now,
the ones that you're putting in the bottom right-hand corner.
We have some great panelists up here.
You know, some controversial panelists.
You know, that seems to be, you know, some of the feedback.
Maybe some hard-hitting panelists.
So we're going to go through those questions.
And, you know, so jump in.
Or actually, Chief, I guess.
We'll just go ahead and yield to them.
Yeah.
Oh, I just want to clarify one thing too, because I'm reading this and it looks like the numbers are inverted somehow.
Let me go back.
I'm going to send this to you so you can see it.
The payments are in March of 2022 and there's donations of $40,000.
So I wanted to clarify that because his last payment was March of 2022 and the donation was in October of 2022.
But either way, like I said, it's still like contrary to what he said in 2021.
So I'll send it so that you can see that.
But I just wanted to correct the numbers because it's the inverse.
But, you know, it's important that people, like, look at these FEC reports and, you know, look at the way money is being, you know, concealed.
And I would ask the Ron DeSantis campaign, like, why would they change the name of the PAC to the Empowered Parents Pack?
What is it?
Like, he announced on the 24th, so what, like a week?
Literally one week before his presidential announcement, they changed the name of the PAC.
To me, that just signals that they're trying to hide things.
I was, I was going to say that.
So, Chief, Chief, one second.
So once Laura sends me that, I will put it on the nest,
and then everyone can see it, and then I will bring it up in space once you've sent it to me.
Chief, go ahead.
Yeah, I was saying, you can also reply to the actual space itself on the bottom right of your phone
with the tweet, and then you can go and click the arrow button,
and you should be able to select the space.
But the questions that I still kind of, I think were unanswered, and I hope that, uh,
Hopefully it does get to these answers, though.
Was it a pattern issue or a spirited tweet issue?
Because if you look back at the recording of the space, you'll see at one point he said it was not a volume issue of tweets, but because the tweets were mean-spirited.
But then he continued later on to say that it was a pattern of this.
So there is a direct kind of contradiction in there.
And if that was true, at what point did he pull Messiah at some point and try to explain this privately to him months ago if it was indeed a pattern?
Also, there were other employees who were still there who were.
saying things about how, you know, they don't give an F about Ashley about its death.
And I think that's egregious and very mean-spirited at the bare minimum.
And that's definitely an issue of mine.
And then, of course, the terms of what Laura's talking about,
um who who um who in baby aside from set dylan may be getting money from this or looking or a part of the whole pack um is it a culture thing there where there's a work culture of people who get money from the santa's crew how does that whole thing go so there is a lot of unknown questions and he did address some of them but i don't think he fully explained the um all the missing um parts of the story yet
But he did come on here, but I think he kind of didn't answer anything to the entirety.
So I think it's kind of, at least these of the questions I had that weren't really answered.
Yeah, I think you make a really good point about the whole mean-spirited, um,
the whole mean-spirited comment, because that's one of the tactics that's being used, right, by the DeSantis team, is they say, well, these Trump supporters are just so mean and vicious.
And look at how mean they are in their attacks against DeSantis and all of his staffers.
But then you pull up their tweets and...
they're literally celebrating the death of Ashley Babbitt.
And from my understanding, you know, this is,
I wrote an entire substack about this,
how Ron DeSantis has, you know,
advocated for the J-Sixers to be locked up and prosecuted
and has cooperated with the FBI
and allowed for Capitol Police to have a station
in the state of Florida.
And then his press secretary was promoted
even after making the comments.
And I just posted that screenshot on my Twitter
about an hour ago.
again, after posting it months ago, his name's Jeremy Redfern.
And when Ashley Babbitt was shot and killed, he said, I hope President Trump is impeached.
And then someone was talking about how, you know, Ashley was climbing through the window.
And Jeremy Redfern, who is DeSantis' press secretary, said how to fuck around and
and find out 101.
Basically, in other words, saying that she deserved it, right?
So I just think that that's very telling that, you know,
the governor is willing to keep somebody on his staff to represent him.
This is the guy who's responsible for doing the communications for the governor.
He's his press secretary.
And he thinks it's acceptable to celebrate the murder of Ashley Babbitt.
I mean, President Trump has said that Ashley Babbitt was murdered.
And then you have Governor DeSantis who's giving promotions to people who are mocking her assassination.
So it's a primary.
It's going to get vicious.
We're not going to sit here and just be nice to Governor DeSantis and his staff.
that's what happens in primaries.
It's often vicious.
But it's important for the base to know what they're dealing.
Just a question on that,
do you think it's possible that both sides
will become so vicious that essentially they take themselves out
from a credibility perspective
in terms of the actual presidential election
against the Democrats?
I don't think so.
Because the difference is the DeSantis people...
are posting things that these are people who all supported right they supported president
Trump or so they say and then they have made statements contrary to their attacks on president
Trump now so you can look at their screenshots from a year ago and they were praising Trump's
foreign policy and then now they're saying that he had terrible foreign policy you can look at
their screenshots from a year ago and they're praising his stance on immigration and now they're
saying that he's pro amnesty but um
Also,
given DeSantis' poll numbers,
I don't think that DeSantis' social media team
really has much of an effect on the
opinions of the American people.
So I don't really care if they're going to sit on the sidelines and boo-hoo to their
eco chambers on Twitter.
They reach the same few thousand people each day.
They're not changing any hearts.
They're not changing any minds.
They just make asses of themselves each and every day on Twitter.
And they cry like babies when they get hit that.
Alex,
Alex, let me ask you the same question because it's the same question I asked Laura,
but let me add to it.
That is it possible that basically on the Republican side,
both sides take each other out from a credibility perspective.
We know from the Democrat side,
they're not going to have a fair primary.
They're going to take out RFK and the Biden's going to be the anointed one as they've been in the past.
So essentially, is that risk there?
I don't think so because we're not dealing with people who had any credibility to begin with.
We're dealing with people like Bill Mitchell, John Cardillo, Dave Reboy.
Nobody in the real world knows of these people are.
They've never had any credibility.
They're all middle-aged, childless freak shows who live in South Florida and jerk each other off for a living.
Like...
They never had any credibility to begin with.
And so I'm not concerned about that at all.
And again, if their opinion mattered,
if people actually cared about what they had to say,
DeSantis would be doing very well in the polls
because these people spent all day, every day,
for a year and a half,
simping for the guy.
And when they tweet things, he just goes further down in the polls.
And they also lose a ton of followers.
Alex.
When they tweet anti-Dissantis or anti-Trump things, they lose followers.
I think because I remember asking this to Lauren the previous base,
and I don't know if you had a chance to also answer the specific question,
but if, let's say, just in a pretend world where Desantis becomes the Republican nominee
for the presidential election in 2024, would you vote for DeSantis or would you write in Donald
Trump as president for it?
I would write into Donald Trump.
Well, here's the thing, and I appreciate that question.
I think George W. Bush was one of the worst presidents in modern American history,
and he is responsible for a ton of the damage that we still deal with today in our country.
And Donald Trump attracted tens of millions of different, a lot of Democrat voters to the Republican Party because of his message.
But there isn't much of a difference between a uniparty and a Bush Republican and a Democrat.
And so I can't say for certain, but I'm very confident that President Trump will be the nominee.
I think that's the best thing for our country.
And guys, we are bringing on, we are trying to get dissenters people.
Normally we have a balanced panel.
I don't know what's happened today.
I don't know if it's Laura or what, but a lot of people not turn it up.
So don't worry.
So we are getting...
But why would it be me?
What are you trying to say?
I'm trying to...
I'm trying to say they probably fear you, isn't it?
But, um...
I mean, maybe, but that's the thing.
Like, that just goes to a lot of what you said
because you shouldn't fear somebody
if you're speaking the truth.
And that's why I feel so confident to speak.
Because I know that I'm being truthful
in my defense of President Trump,
the greatest president we've ever had in this country.
Right.
And, you know, to be a DeSantis supporter is to be disingenuous inherently.
Because to support a guy who owes his entire political career to President Donald Trump means that you don't have...
like a genuine or loyal bone in your body.
And so that's the problem here, right?
That's why it's gotten so vicious.
Because as Alex said,
these people don't have any credibility to run on.
I mean,
I participated in the recount,
okay?
And,
You know, before Rush Limbaugh passed away, you know, he had said that my investigation in Broward County, uncovering a box of ballots in the back of a rental car that traced back to Brenda Snites helped save the recount.
Okay.
And if it wasn't for that discovery that put more heat on Brenda Snipes, Andrew Gillum could have potentially been the governor.
And so...
He barely won.
It was by 32,000 votes.
And it wasn't until President Trump threatened to have the DOJ come in and investigate the
fraud in Palm Beach and Broward County that Ron DeSantis was looking at losing his election.
We already have seen how poor he was performing in the polls against Adam Putnam.
And President Donald Trump went against all of his advisors.
all of his advisors' wishes, and he endorsed Ron DeSantis anyway.
And, you know, even Rod DeSantis himself has publicly said that he wouldn't be governor if it wasn't for President Trump.
But now all of a sudden, he wants to pretend like the president he owes his entire political career to.
is, you know, some kind of like leftist.
And you see what DeSantis' campaign team is pushing out.
They're saying that Donald Trump has lost his mind.
They're saying that Donald Trump is mentally ill
and that he is using Democrat talking points.
They're saying that he's amnesty dawn.
I mean, the lies that are coming out of the DeSantis camp, I would say I would never be able to vote for Ron DeSantis if he were the nominee because to me, DeSantis supporters are worse than Democrats.
And I'll even go as far as saying that as a congressional candidate, I raised $3 million when I ran as an America First candidate.
And I won't stop short of raising another $3 million to run an anti-Dissantis general election campaign if he is the nominee.
I will be writing Donald Trump in black Sharpie across my ballot.
if Donald Trump is not the nominee for the general election.
He's the only person I will be voting for.
So, guys, Laura has sent me the images.
I have pinned them up to the top so you all can see them.
What she sent shows is that Babylon B received $1,500.
$1,000.
on the 8th of March and then $5,000.
22, 22, contrary to what Seth said.
2020, yeah.
And then the 23rd of March, 2022, Babylon B received $5,000.
And then the second image shows, is it Seth himself?
Yeah, Seth.
So I had said it was a payment, but it's a donation.
So I was looking on the other side.
So the 1500 and the, the 1500 is the payment.
And then there was more.
There's the 21,000 where he said on the on the space earlier that,
The last payment was in 2021.
Well, clearly that's not true because you just read the receipt I just showed you.
And then the payment was to the DeSantis PAC, which has since been changed to the Empowered Parents Pack.
I guess that's a donation from Seth Dillon for $40,000 less than a month before the election.
So, you know.
He said he gave money to DeSantis.
He said that the last payment he received from DeSantis was in 2021.
That's not true.
And those documents that I just sent you proved that.
Yeah, so anyone can see that.
That's pinned up so they can see that.
And I've just read it out as well.
So in terms of, in terms of, let me just bring some more people up.
Can he, Sulamani?
Can I respond earlier when, like about your.
Yeah, yeah, call said that.
Suleman, but go ahead.
Yeah, Suleiman.
Is that who say it?
Okay. So like in terms of, you know, once the primary is over, whether or not people are going to be able to get behind Trump. And, and I believe, obviously, Trump's going to be the nominee because his base is so loyal. But I actually almost think it's a good thing that the dissentist people are going so crazy, right? Like throw every arrow you have in your box. Because at the end of the day, the strongest man is,
is going to be standing in the end.
And I fully believe that's going to be President Trump.
And I think once we get past the primary, all of this sort of like infighting within the Republicans is going to go away anyway.
Because at the end of the day, the question then is going to be, do you want open borders or closed borders?
Do you want wars?
Do you want your money going to Ukraine?
Do you want, you know, double the cost of groceries at the store?
Do you want energy independence?
And that's what people are going to be thinking about.
They're not going to be thinking about, you know, what DeSantis people and Trump people said to each other on Twitter, right?
Like, so I really don't think...
after the primary, any of this stuff is really going to matter.
And I just think that, you know, everything going on right now with this Trump-Dissanis war
and there's other people that could be putting their hat in the ring.
I heard my governor, Chris Sununu, might be putting his hat in the ring.
The more, the merrier, like, everyone should really duke it out so that when we finally have
our nominee, it's truly the best that we have to offer, which I believe is going to be President
Trump.
Laura, you know, I've just removed that tweet.
I know it's from a public side,
but if you could remove sets address,
and then I'll repost it just so we don't have any kind of blowback.
I know it's from a public address, but...
just to make sure that we don't have that situation.
Oh, sorry.
I figured you would do that.
Yeah, I mean, I was just sending it to you so that you could see it.
I haven't posted it yet.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not.
I'm not doxing anybody.
Those are all like public records.
Yeah, yeah, I know the public records.
I'm trying to do you privately.
I am curious to see those text messages, Laura.
Are you really going to post them?
Yeah, I mean, they've already been posted.
They were posted on my Twitter account in February and...
you know, I'm just telling you
it wasn't like, oh, this is an off the record conversation.
I respect that.
He had said it was off the record.
He had said,
I want you to correct your tweet.
And I said, well, what exactly do you not, like, find accurate with my tweet?
And then you can see in the entire text thread we're going back and forth.
And I said, how's this?
Right?
And we came to an agreeable position because he wanted me to delete my post that showed the expenditures all together.
And I said, I'm not going to do that.
So I'm happy to, like, get a statement from you.
And I want to know, like, what exactly the payments were for.
And he, I'll just read them right now.
The text messages.
Um, it said, hold on a second.
Why is DeSantis paying Babylon B?
Seth said, you could consider a speech writing consultant.
We help him find funny angles on Democrats.
We don't attack Trump for him.
That's silly and false.
They've never even suggested that we write anything about Trump.
And then I sent him a screen grab of their article that said Trump attacks DeSantis
for failing to fire Dr. Fauci, rushing untested vaccine.
And in this article at the very bottom, it's like they say it's satire, but they used a quote
from Christina Pusha that I guess they made up.
But it's interesting that, you know, this...
this whole conversation in space was created
because of like Pusha's interaction with Gavin Wax
and at the very end of this quote unquote satire article
like there's a quote from Pusha where it says something like
Oh, well, I guess Biden's dementia is contagious in D.C., basically saying, like, oh, Trump has dementia.
Okay?
And when I sent that to Seth and I said, you say that you're not attacking Trump, he said, oh, that's funny.
Trump deserves it.
Trump deserves it.
I mean, that's like a very emotionally charged statement to say, like Trump deserves it, right?
So...
He admitted in these messages, and I don't care.
Like, I'll send them to you.
I've already posted them.
I'm not trying to be malicious.
I'm just trying to get the truth out there because there's a lot of people out there that want to claim that they're Trump supporters, but they're really for Team DeSantis.
And look, it's a primary.
Like, I'm not telling Seth he can't vote for DeSantis.
If he wants to vote for DeSantis, fine.
I'm voting for Trump.
but at least be honest about it.
And I said the same thing about Elon Musk.
Like, I'm grateful I got my account back.
But, like, for Elon Musk to say he's impartial and then say things like, oh, yeah, well,
Desantis had fundraising records.
And it's not true.
Like, Elon Musk literally got fact checked by the site he owns because they kept on saying
that DeSantis broke fundraising records by raising $8.5 million.
And the fundraising record goes to Donald Trump.
Didn't the Babylon B though didn't actually say Claire like me see you on reason?
Heather Heather, Heather, let me bring in Bonschi.
Bonchi.
I believe that you're pro-decentist.
What's your thoughts on basically the conversation that's happened now and essentially in terms of the whole Seth Dillon situation with Babylon B?
Yeah.
Well, I think it's a private company and he had a right to do what he did.
I mean, I think he's absolutely right that everybody in this space, if it was a DeSantis supporter he fired, would not care.
They wouldn't be tweeting about it.
They wouldn't be saying anything about it.
And I understand your friends with Gavin, many of you guys.
Now, I'll just say personally, I would not.
have done it publicly. I think that's the wrong way to do it. I wouldn't have done it. If I was his boss,
I would have called him when I would have said, hey, we need to calm this down a bit. You're getting
a little too out of control. You know, and I think everybody in this space, if you have a little
humility, you say you've done the same thing. Like, you know, everybody's gotten out of control.
They've overreacted. They've lashed out. They've tweeted something they shouldn't have.
But I think, I think the stuff that Laura's saying, like we're taking her word for it. I mean, I
But her record's not the best.
So I don't know why we're going to sit here and hear about, you know, these payments and that payment.
She admits she doesn't know what the payments are for and yada, yada, yada.
And now we're like getting deep into the weeds of just slandering the Babylon B when that's not even what the original topic was about.
So that's my thoughts on.
I think Seth is a private businessman who made a decision that he felt like he needed to make.
I never said that I admitted I didn't know what the payments were for.
I just read you text messages.
So again, another lie.
I just read you messages where he said that they were for speech writing services.
So again, I'm being honest here.
I have screenshots to create this.
Payment.
You're saying a lot of things.
The $21,000 payments.
I'm not a habitual liar.
I know that DeSantis supporters love accusing Trump supporters of being liars because you guys are liars and you don't have integrity.
But listen.
The screenshots.
The screenshots prove what I said.
Laura has been talking for what?
30 minutes now.
Finish what I'm saying.
Oh, yeah.
She's talked now and she's proving my point.
So can we just have her go away?
I mean, if you're going to talk to my bullshit,
you're going to get called out for it.
I'm sending him the screenshots now so you can just shut the hell up.
Agree.
Banchi's a nasty guy.
He hides behind an A&M.
These vicious.
At least Laura puts her face out there and her name out there.
And Bansha, you're really a nasty guy.
You're complaining about Christina Pusha being criticized for her appearance.
And believe me, there's a lot of material there to work with, a lot of Botox to work with.
And then you were posting pictures of GOP Josh's face.
He's 16 years old.
And this is the first time hearing you speak.
and it sounds like you're a grown man.
And so you were cyberbullying a young man,
and now you're in here crying about people's behavior.
So, so, Banshee, I think you have a lot of issues,
and you're part of the world to sit out there.
I know that's 20 to one MAGA supporters, and that's great.
Like, I've voted for Trump twice.
I have no problem talking to you guys,
but you're going to have to let me speak instead of three,
you jumping on at one time.
So I'll address that.
Absolutely. What Josh did, and first of all, I didn't know how old he was. I don't care how old he is. If you come on Twitter and you make a disparaging, vicious comment about a woman saying that her face is so full of Botox that it doesn't move, the idea that it's improper.
That's impover. Let me finish what I'm saying.
I never said that, to be clear.
Yes, you did.
What did you say?
Give the exact quote, Josh.
I'll put it up so it'll stay and you can read it.
I'll put it up on the space.
Great.
Give the exact quote.
But is that a fact bunch?
Guys, guys.
One second.
One second.
One second.
Seth is back.
I'm not going to, I'm not going to get into these.
I'm not going to get into these what?
Okay.
One second, bro. Seth is back. Oh, he dropped again. Oh, go ahead now, Bunchy. I was going to bring
Seth back in. And look, let me just finish this. I know nobody cares about this. This is a little
No, no, Bunchy, Bunchy, Bunchy, I'm going to let you finish. I'm going straight to you. What I was
just finish your point, because Seth is back, so I do want some of the things. Absolutely. Yeah,
absolutely. He's way more than important to me. I get it. Look, the point is this. Christina Poushaw
did nothing to GOP, Josh. He
He lashed out talking about her physical appearance, and I posted his picture that's on his profile, and I said, this is the person who's talking about somebody else's appearance. That was, I'd have to go look up the exact quote, but that was what I was saying. Now, Alex cropped out, the quote tweet that I was quoting, you cropped it out so that people couldn't see I was responding to someone. And here's the, here's my opinion.
Just, hey, Banshee, just like when you crop out the dates of the payments from
Same America Pack, you're one of the biggest spreaders of the propaganda that I was paid
$35,000 to attack DeSantis.
Find a tweet. Find a tweet. You crop up, you crop out the
No, I think you're confusing me with somebody else.
I've never even called you the $35,000 man.
So, I mean, I, Dave and Max, other people have made that joke about you.
I don't even call you that.
In fact, every time I respond to you, it's something where you're lying or you're, how many people?
posts have you deleted in the past week
where you've said something false
and then you...
So I do that's false.
All right, guys.
So no, I do that.
I do that troll you.
No, guys.
You guys are just basically,
it's about a personal thing
and I'm not really bothered about it.
It's boring.
So let me go to Seth.
Seth, thanks for coming back.
Laura has sent us some...
Any thoughts you've got initially,
but in addition to that,
Laura has sent some payments
that were made by yourself
to DeSantis's team,
Desantis's pack.
And I also sent you the screenshots right now so you can see everything I'm saying is true
because I take great offense to being called a liar.
And I'm really tired of people saying that I'm like crazy and that I'm a conspiracy theorist.
And, you know, that's what the left did to me for five years when they de-platformed me
and banned me everywhere for posting and breaking the story about Omar marrying her brother
and being an anti-Semite.
Like it's really disgusting how they use these leftist talking points to try to like
say that, oh, she's like mentally ill or unstable or she's unwell or, you know, she's a conspiracy theorist.
Everything that I've said has turned out to be true.
I always provide documentation to back up what I'm saying.
So it's just really, it's really disgusting.
So, Lord, let me go to Seth.
Go ahead.
Now, one second.
Chief, Chief, let Seth go ahead.
Sorry, Seth, go ahead.
What am I responding to?
I'm not sure what I've missed.
All right, Koss, yeah.
So what you missed was,
since you've been gone,
Laura has provided images and evidences of two things.
The first thing is,
payments from Babylon, sorry, payments to Babylon B, which went up to 2022.
And the second thing was, is your done.
And so the final payment, one payment was on the 8th of March, 2022, of $1,500.
The second one was 23rd of March, 2022, which was $5,000.
And then your personal donations, you know,
one of which is 250 pound in 2021 and the second one on 2022 on the 13th of October which was $40,000.
So I believe that you, so that was the first thing and then I'll go on to the other message afterwards.
But I believe you said previously that the last time there was any kind of donation or any type of money received by Babylon B was on 2021.
Yeah.
No, I said that the screenshot that everybody's sharing crops off the dates, that screenshot was of payments from 2021, I believe, for list rentals. That's what I said earlier.
Yeah, so I guess, all of the questions about payments that we receive or what they're for, you know, we're not always at liberty to disclose things like that.
A lot of business relationships have contractual agreements that restrict what you can say about that.
I had made comments to Laura in more detail that I believed were off the record.
She didn't honor that.
And I guess, you know, she claims that she said that she never, was, I guess, consenting to going off the record.
It was just all over text.
We didn't have a verbal conversation.
Yeah, and I wanted to, before I spoke to you, I wanted to make sure that it was off the record because I wasn't at liberty to.
But it doesn't say in the text messages off the record.
You just, you just.
Okay, you can get really specific into the semantics.
Obviously, I was concerned about what I was saying to you
if you were talking to me as a journalist or not.
So, you know, it's very frustrating that you're now sharing
the information that was shared with you privately, publicly.
I'm not ashamed of these things.
A lot of these things are protected by agreements
where there's non-confidentiality.
You're not allowed to speak about them publicly.
I can say definitively,
and factually and deny categorically
that we have ever been paid to attack Trump
on behalf of DeSantis or any affiliates of DeSantis,
any PAC, we are a satire site.
We make jokes.
That's what we do.
We're not in anybody's pocket.
We don't choose sides.
We will run email campaigns for anybody.
We will consult and do speech writing for anybody
who wants to punch up jokes in their speeches.
but we do not pay, we are not paid to be shills for one candidate or another and promote them
on our website or attack other people at their behest.
And those are disgusting lies.
You know, you talk about, you don't like, you don't like being lied about, but implying
that and getting everybody to believe that is really wrong.
I think it's really wrong.
You know, it's, we are not in political games here where we're getting involved in politics.
We are a comedy site.
and we take things very lightly and make fun of everybody, including DeSantis.
Look at the jokes we've just made about DeSantis.
And we are receiving no current payments from him.
We are not on his payroll.
We don't want to be involved in at all during the primaries now that he's announced that he's running.
We don't want to be even to even have the perception that we're involved with either campaign.
So we're not doing any work or any list rentals during that time.
Can you bring me down up again?
The same policy that...
Yeah, I'll do that.
Same policy that the Daily Wire has.
You know, they're not currently running any campaigns
or, you know, with email campaigns
or doing anything with either candidate
until the primary is decided.
And I think that's a prudent policy,
and we share that view that we shouldn't be...
doing anything like that, just so it doesn't even get the appearance of us being one-sided,
but we are not taking sides.
The Babylon B is not political as an organization.
We make fun of everyone from a Christian worldview.
And I really resent that people are trying to paint us in that light.
And again, I go back to this point that I made earlier.
even if we were in one camp or another,
don't we have a right to be?
Like, why does that make us evil?
It's so silly.
It's so silly.
It's ridiculous.
Like, we don't have a right to freely associate with whoever we want to.
I'm proud of whatever I've been able to do to help DeSantis...
get elected by donating to his campaign or going to the governor's mansion was a great honor.
Going to Marlago was a great honor.
I'm not embarrassed of any of it.
It's not a gotcha where something confidential that I'm ashamed of that's being hidden is
being leaked into the public.
There are situations where you have contractual agreements where you're not supposed to talk about these things.
And you have non-confidentiality in place.
Employment agreements have that.
Contracts with contractors have that.
And so you can't always talk openly about it.
But that doesn't mean that you're hiding it because you're ashamed of it or you think it's wrong.
I'm not ashamed of anything that I've done.
So, Seth, in terms of the payments, obviously these ones are public.
So I guess the main question people I have is, I mean, if I remember right, the most recent payment, which is in the public records, which Laura's shared was in October 2020, which is about seven months ago.
Has there been any payments from the dissentist camp to you or vice versa? And why it's important is you can be on anyone side. I don't think anyone disputes that. What the concern is if you are on dissentist's side, then it.
or not.
But if you are, then I think
there needs to be transparency.
I'm not talking about...
I can I just jump in?
Hang on.
Seth.
Seth.
Can I just say something here?
Sure.
Who the hell cares?
He's not a news agency
and it's his bloody company.
What hell right do we have
to know who he's getting payments from?
It's a satire company.
Why are we grilling this guy?
Well, and why should I have to disclose any of this stuff?
You know, a lot of this stuff is done under agreements.
Every agreement that we have with an outside contractor has some kind of an agreement or, you know,
if we're providing services to somebody, that restrict what you're allowed to say about, you know,
amount and when and dates and all of these things.
I don't get why this is anybody's business,
and I don't understand why anybody thinks that it means
that we're somehow in somebody's pocket
just because we do business with somebody.
Again, like I said, I'm happy to take money from Trump's people
if they want to run campaigns with us
or have us do work for them in some capacity.
Happy to do that.
I'm happy to go speak at press conferences for him
if he'd like me to support his digital bill of rights
or anything that he wants to do regarding censorship.
I'm happy to just support the cause itself.
So, you know, I don't understand why anybody cares.
I'm not obligated to answer any specific questions about amounts or dates or anything like that.
I don't know why you guys are still up in arms about it.
We're a comedy site.
Laugh at the jokes or not.
If you don't think we're funny, unfollow us.
So, Seth, let me ask you because...
Why do you all care?
Nobody cares.
People just want to make sure you're not fired.
Nobody cares.
I'm going to shift here just a little bit.
You care very much.
You know, because this is the, and again, we appreciate you coming back up here and, you know, facing the fire here.
Obviously, the question that sparked this entire thing, you know, it had to do with the tweets,
where Gavin Mario Watts, who was the, he was your vice president of marketing, correct me if I'm wrong,
And he asked, hey, Christina, push all, what is your fucking problem?
And you responded initially and said, what's yours?
Tweeting like this with the B in your bio doesn't work for me.
And then he followed up and, actually, it just glitched out.
He followed up to that tweet.
At what point...
Did you decide that you were going to fire him?
Was it the first tweet or was it when, you know, you went back and said,
you can remove the B from your bio now?
And if you can tell us what his response was, that would be good because my phone just totally froze.
I can't speak to anything from offline.
All I can speak to is what was said publicly.
I think the tweets speak for themselves,
and I've explained my action there.
So I don't know why.
So I'm not sure why.
Like, how many hours could we have a conversation about?
If there's anything specific that we haven't talked about
that anybody would like you to respond to, I'm happy to.
But we had the conversation about the tweets already.
So if you agree.
We do have much bigger...
We do have a much larger audience now.
So the point that I'm trying to ask is people want to know, and they keep asking it in the comment section, which is why I brought it back up.
So clearly a lot of people didn't hear it.
Was there any sort of offline conversation before you guys had this back and forth?
I'm not getting into details of personnel matter beyond what was said publicly that people can look at.
And I said that earlier and people can go back and listen to the beginning of the space if they want to hear what was said earlier.
I don't want to, how many times do we have to go over that?
could I just because I think I can clarify something here.
The reason at least for what I kind of cared about it for was because I've heard about Gavin
with his work with young Republicans in New York.
And from what we saw on Twitter, we saw him do something.
He made a tweet.
And whether there was a pattern or not, you kind of at one point said it was not the volume,
but the spirit of tweets.
And then the other time he said it's a pattern.
So that was the confusion there.
And then what happened?
What happened afterwards, he got fired on Twitter publicly,
and that kind of appeared for people online
who don't really look in this stuff a lot
to appear to be some sort of...
not really retaliation,
but a way to get rid of someone
who was defending himself on there.
Now, if there's an internal problem with him,
performance-wise,
that's something we have no clue about.
I'm sure not going to be able to talk to us
if you've talked to him in the past about,
you know, performance or other issues,
maybe we've talked in the past about his tweets.
Okay, so earlier,
it was all this conversation
about whether it was political or not.
I explained it has nothing to do
with his politics,
which candidate he supports,
or who I support.
It had nothing to do with that.
This was a conduct matter.
Okay.
So, but, so it was the volume of the tweets or the...
Guys, is there, is there anything new or interesting that we can talk about that we haven't already gone over?
Just, okay, just what...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, Seth, although this isn't new,
like you did answer this question a number of times before.
But in the comments, one of the main contentions they had,
and it's your choice if you want to clarify at this point,
but one of the main contentions people are having is that they feel like you've not held a single position.
So at one point you said it's the volume of tweets and the second time it was the spirit.
So that's what people in the comments feel.
So that's the reason why...
If you want to clarify, it's your choice.
If you don't want to, like, it's not your...
Yeah, I mean, I'd go back to what I said earlier.
The reason everybody cares is because they want to turn this into me attacking a Trump person
because they were defending themselves against Desantis people.
And I'm a paid Desantis shill, and I'm defending my, my Descanus friends.
That's how everybody's trying to spin this and present this.
And that's why everybody cares.
And that's why everybody keeps asking me these same questions over and over again.
has nothing to do with any of that.
And my own reasons for it, I can have my own reasons for it.
I don't even, it's my company.
I can run my company how I please.
And if you're concerned about whether or not I'm internally consistent
or how I'm applying my, you know, employee handbook and rules
against my different employees, like it's a totally different issue.
The topic of this is censorship and everybody's concerned about whether this is a
dissantis Trump thing.
And I've answered all of that.
So I don't have to explain to anybody my hiring and firing decisions.
I run a company the way that I plead.
I explained my reasons for why I felt I needed to part ways with a person who I felt like
wasn't conducting himself in a manner that reflected well on the Babylon B.
And so, you know, that's that.
So it doesn't go beyond that.
And the fact that we're still now hours later retreading the same ground is
bizarre to me. Aren't you all bored?
So, Seth, you know what it is?
So you know in terms of being a private company, you're right.
It is your company.
You can do what you want.
But at the same time, people are able to voice their concerns.
So, for example, Twitter is now Elon Musk's own company.
But let's say he decided to ban every single conservative.
That would have people would talk about it.
People would be angry.
People would be upset because that would be a form of censorship.
Right, of course.
And I've already explained, though, that I don't ban people based on their opinions.
I didn't...
I haven't made any hiring or firing decisions based on people's viewpoint.
That's never happened.
It never will happen.
I have explained that repeatedly.
So you guys could keep asking me about it.
And I'll just tell you the same thing.
I'll say what I said earlier.
I don't,
I don't make those decisions based on people's viewpoints.
I'm not censoring people because I don't like a viewpoint they've expressed.
Yeah.
You know, I disagree with a lot of my employees on a lot of things.
I disagree with them on theological points.
I disagree with them on political points.
We have those disagreements in our Slack channels sometimes.
We have them face-to-face.
Nobody ever gets fired for it.
You know, people have a right to their opinions.
So, Seth, I'll go just a little bit. We'll go to just a little bit of a different topic here because you have been very much tied in at this point with the Trump versus the Santos debate. Is this a problem for the party? Is this is this?
you know, just so ugly to the point where you see a lot of people.
I know Laura said earlier, or maybe it wasn't Laura, maybe there was somebody else on stage,
that said that they would absolutely not vote for Ron DeSantis, you know, at the time.
How do you see this going from here?
Because, you know, obviously, you've been a huge target of, you know, one side of this.
I think it's unfortunate.
You know, yeah, I think it's a problem for the party.
Yeah.
You know, it's healthy to have primaries and debates over who should be the right candidate.
It's a very healthy thing for us to have conversations about that and to debate it
and for the best candidates to rise to the top and win.
I think it's an unhealthy thing when any group supporting one or the other candidate
considers it some kind of moral crime or political crime,
something unacceptable for them to not support the candidates that they prefer.
I think it's very unhealthy.
Yeah.
And I think you have that, you have that on both sides to some extent in this conversation.
And the fact that we're getting caught up in it, I think it's just, it's just silly and ridiculous.
I keep going back to the fact that we're, you know, we're a satire site.
Oh, oh, you've caught us.
We got some payments.
Whatever.
We'll take payments from any candidate or person that we, you know, obviously there would be something that we wouldn't.
I wouldn't.
I probably wouldn't accept money from Biden to run campaigns, and he wouldn't want to.
But we're not making selections along those lines where it's people that we prefer to work with over somebody else.
And we don't endorse candidates.
We make jokes.
on the internet that's what we do and so it's bizarre to me that we're caught up in the middle
it's all it's just a situation where everybody wants to vilify anyone who they feel
might not be in their corner and it's a it's a way of coercing people it's a way of manipulating
them and bullying them and punishing them if they don't get in line and do what you want them
to do i find that extremely toxic and unhealthy
and it's bad for the country going forward we know that from the republicans
from the democrat side i already mentioned this i think there's going to be no issue
they don't have a fair primary
a Biden's going to win
but with the GOP there is a fair primary
do you think and it does seem like things are going to get
a lot more vicious a lot more aggressive
does that put you under pressure
to double think about things that you're going to post
in concern that you're going to maybe offend either party
no I don't really
it doesn't bother me if people get upset or offended
I, you know, I don't think we take any of that into consideration.
We're going to make jokes about whatever we think is funny.
So it wouldn't put you under pressure, let's say,
based on now the fact that it's been framed
and people do believe it, especially from the Trump side,
that you're essentially...
on DeSantis' side.
We just made jokes about Trump the other day.
Oh, yeah, you mentioned that.
And people capitalize on it.
And they can they screenshot it.
And they say, oh, look, see, it's obvious.
They're paid by DeSantis to make fun.
We've made more jokes at Trump's expense than any other person.
If you search Trump on our website, we've made more jokes to his expense than the other person.
I voted for him.
A bunch of us did.
It doesn't mean we're not going to make jokes at his expense, and it doesn't mean that DeSantis has been paying us since the site was started in 2016.
That's absurd.
No, no, I get that. But going forward, let's say now, would this put you under pressure, like, hypothetically speaking, if you did have more memes against Trump compared to DeSantis?
Like, would you be thinking, let me balance it out?
As a CEO, how would you be dealing with this from that one?
No, I mean, people are going to say what they're going to say.
Look, everything that I've just said to refute this idea that we're in somebody's pocket, most of the people that are listening that have already made up their mind on this don't care.
You know, they're not interested in the truth.
They're just interested in a narrative.
And they'll continue to advance that narrative.
So it is what it is.
You can't make everybody see things the way that you want them to be seen or the way that they actually are.
So you just have to go about your business as usual.
So we're just going to, again, we're going to target the targets that deserve it.
We're not going to be hands-off dissantis, even if 90% of the people who work at the B decide to vote for DeSantis.
We're not going to be hands off of him because of that.
We all made fun of Trump and we're making fun of him when we voted for him.
So, you know, it's silly to expect that we should behave a certain way or not behave a certain way.
Again, everybody's still worked up about a comedy site. It's bizardomic.
I haven't heard anybody explain why. Why does everybody care so much? None of these things, like I heard a couple of someone say a minute ago, like, what do you guys care? Like, this is a private company making their private decisions. I don't know. I think it's just an excuse to find somebody to vilify and punish. And I think that's bullying. And I think it's wrong. And yes, I think it's unhealthy for the country. Well, Seth, look, I feel like he,
You didn't even have to come on the second time, but you've essentially come on.
You've answered every single question, some of which you've answered like maybe 10 times.
So yeah, we appreciate you coming on.
But I actually don't think there's any more questions you can be asked because you've kind of covered everything.
But feel free to stay on if you wish to.
But essentially, that's my perspective.
But yeah, Nick, go ahead, bro.
Yeah. So, yeah, no, definitely want to thank you, Seth, Dylan. I think he did a, you know, a great job actually going through the questions explaining your side. You didn't run away from them. So regardless of what people think, you know, on the panel and in the audience, I'm sure you've gained a lot of respect just for doing that. So thank you, sir.
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Look, it's not a situation where there's a gotcha. There's some undercover reports that are going to expose what we've been doing. There's nothing that we have to hide. There's nothing that we're doing that's unethical. We're not in anybody's camp. We're having fun, making fun of people. And we're happy to support. I'm happy to support my governor in Florida. I'm happy to support my governor in Florida.
the president, when we get a new president who replaces this one, you know, it's, it's, the whole
conversation to me, this whole thing is, is really overblown and kind of silly. And in, and the fact
that we've gotten into the weeds so much about, you know, the reasons for the firing or the
reasons for the tweets and when decisions were made and all of that.
I'm not sure why any of that is relevant to anybody in this space.
This is a personal matter in a private company.
And yes, obviously the things that happened publicly were public.
You can see what I had to say and my reasons for doing what I did.
But, you know, again, like I said, the fight that I think the fighting is unhealthy.
When I ended my comments earlier, I emphasized the importance of us kinder, being kinder, being more charitable.
Let's not try to see the worst in everybody and assume that there are enemy.
You know, we can disagree with each other and even vote for different people, and it doesn't mean that we have to be enemies or treat each other as enemies.
Yeah, so actually we have two more questions real quick.
I want to bring in, I'm going to bring in Paul here just a second,
who is a member of the New York Young Republicans Club,
and he would like to address it.
But I want to bring Aaron Curiarty real quick.
And, you know, so you have a pretty good question.
Jump in, Aaron.
Yeah, thanks, Nick.
Seth, thanks for being on here, a big fan of Babylon B.
I think this whole tempest in the teacup is pretty absurd.
But I want to ask you, because I've been concerned about how hard it's become to do comedy now in our society.
And I think actually Babylon B's comedy is...
is pretty charitable. It's pretty gentle, chiding. It's very funny, but it's, you know, a lot of humor can be
extremely hostile. And I think you guys, for the most part, avoid that on both sides of the political
spectrum. But the fact is so many comedians have a hard time going on campus these days.
It's just become harder to make jokes in this society. And it seems to me that that's a very bad
thing for society, a very bad thing for us politically because, you know, I mean, the role of the court jester is
in society has always been able to say things to the king that other people couldn't get away with saying because, you know, they get their heads lopped off.
And particularly in a free and democratic society like ours where you're supposed to be able to say things to the king if you don't like what the government is doing, it's become harder to do that.
It's become harder to do that even through...
even through the sort of role of comedy and jokes in our society.
I'm just wondering, you know,
somebody who runs a site that I think does a terrific job of trying to do this
and trying to be fair about it.
You guys, you know, certainly have your maybe political slant or whatever.
But, you know, what you've been navigating,
what you've been dealing with seems to me to be actually not trivial
because there's a sign that, you know,
you know, something has gone really sideways in our current cultural climate.
I wonder if you could comment on, you know, the role of a site like the Babylon
be in a healthy culture.
Yeah.
Thank you for the question.
Nice to switch topics, honestly.
Well, comedy is hard for a number of reasons.
I think that, you know, if the B goes out of business, it's going to be because the real
world and satire become completely indistinguishable from each other.
You know, everything feels like a parody these days.
Every story that you see in a real headline is still over the top.
It's almost impossible to satirize it.
So that's one challenge for comedy.
But another challenge is that there's a lot of people
who don't want to hear the truth,
and comedy is a vehicle for truth delivery.
They don't like to confront the truth.
And they don't like that comedy speaks truth so effectively.
And so, you know, it gets caught in the crossfire of the people who are at war with the truth and reality, which is, in our view, predominantly people on the left.
But there's also this kind of culture and climate where people are, you know, taking themselves too seriously and less willing than ever to...
to laugh.
And I think that's a bad thing too.
Like you said,
there's a lot of comedians
who won't go on college campuses anymore.
Everybody wants their safe space.
It's very,
very unhealthy mentality to be in.
We take ourselves so seriously,
we think we have this right to not be offended.
And that's just ridiculous.
And I think, you know,
comedy that speaks uncomfortable truths
that kind of makes us squirm in our seat a little bit,
not always laugh,
but like we're the butt of the joke.
But there's some truth to it.
You know,
that's a healthy thing to kind of examine yourself in that way
and laugh at yourself.
Right.
So, you know, comedians who are still willing to make the jokes that they're not supposed to make, I really value them.
There's even a few of them on the left still today, who I think are doing a good job of pushing back on the culture's madness and continuing to make jokes about things, like, for example, gender affirming care for kids.
And I put that in scare quotes because I don't like using their euphemisms, but...
Yeah, comedy is important. It brings levity to these situations. It allows us to take – it helps us to take ourselves a little bit less seriously.
And honestly, we're all passengers on the ship of fools from time to time and deserve to be laughed at and deserve to laugh at ourselves.
So, you know, I think humor is beneficial in that way. And I also think there's an importance for mocking things that deserve to be mocked.
You know, I've said this many times before in public statements and speeches that if you –
You know, we have this idea that we've improved morally because we make fun of fewer things,
and I think nothing could be further than the truth.
I think that we're more depraved than ever because we've affirmed and accepted things that we should have as a culture ridiculed and rejected.
And so there's a moral imperative to mockery.
There are bad ideas that have bad effects in society that need to be mocked.
They need to be torn down.
And so I think humor has a role to play there too.
I hope that answers your question.
Yeah, that was terrific. Thank you.
Paul?
Thanks, Nick, for bringing me on.
And, yeah, I just had a couple more questions for Seth
regarding sort of the nature of Gavin's firing.
By the way, I'm, you know,
part of the Young Republicans Club in New York City,
and I'm a very strong supporter of Donald Trump.
And people who follow my Twitter account
know exactly which side I fall on
on the Trump-Dissantis war, so to speak.
But, you know, I appreciate Seth for coming on tonight.
You know, I appreciate the fact that,
I didn't, I wasn't here for the entire forum, the entire discussion, but I appreciate the fact that, you know, he, he, he was answering questions from many people who were hostile to him and he did so with,
relative grace, but the bottom line is this was a very public firing. He did this on Twitter.
Now, I know the fact that Seth now is saying, you know, this is a private company and this matter is to be handled internally, but the bottom line is...
that this was a very, this was made on a public forum.
It was made on Twitter.
And it was in response to a flagrantly political tweet.
You know, Gavin called out expressly Christine Pushaugh in that tweet.
Now for Seth to maintain that, you know, this is,
apparently some sort of violation of a no vulgarity policy on part of the Babylon
B. I would like to hear a little bit more about what that policy entails because, you
know, there are many people have tweeted other employees of the Babylon B who have used the F word
as well as other vulgarities, other curse words on social media quite frequently.
And it doesn't seem like those people were fired from the company based on my understanding.
So I'm just trying to get a little better sense of what exactly the no vulgarity policy is of the Babylon B if this is posted anywhere.
And like what exactly did Gavin do in violation of that policy?
And why did that specific tweet trigger that policy that...
you know,
made you to decide
to hire.
I've already addressed
most of that.
So I'm not,
I don't really feel the need
to speak to it anymore.
Yeah, you've already answered that.
Yeah, you know,
Is it like a specific policy you have or is this like, you know, just sort of a general sort of approach that you're applying on a person by person basis? You know, it seems like unclear. I mean, I know you've already discussed this, but for many of us on this side, we're still a little unclear about exactly what this policy is.
Yeah, I don't see how that's really any of anybody's business on this call.
This is a public space where I'm not getting into the details of personal matters.
Well, it was a public firing.
So, I mean, the fact that, I mean, you made the decision to fire him on a public forum.
So given that fact, you would think that you would provide a little bit more context,
a little bit more elaboration about what this specific policy is that you're,
I didn't say you're, I didn't say you're fired in a public forum.
Well,
I never said.
Well, so did you, well, maybe, all right, so maybe let me clarify, did you not fire him from the company?
I, I, I,
I said my tweets speak for themselves.
I don't think that I ever in a tweet said you're fired.
So did you or did you not fire Gavin?
I've had communication with Gavin, but I haven't, I never said that you're fired in it.
So you're saying now you actually didn't fire Gavin Wax from the Babylon?
That is not what I'm saying.
No, that is not what I'm saying.
So what are you saying?
I said, you said this was a public firing.
I said I did not, I never tweeted you were fired.
So I'm not sure which tweet you're referring to that you're saying it's to be public hiring.
I mean, it's strongly implied by saying remove the B from your, from your username or from your profile that you're terminating the employee.
Is that a correct statement?
And for instance, to make from that tweet?
Or what exactly were you trying to say about that?
Seth, before you answer, I do want to just share just some breaking news before you answer.
Fox News is reporting that both President Biden and McCarthy have apparently reached a tentative deal
on the debt-sealing negotiations.
I just wanted to share that for the space.
Okay.
Look, maybe you could clarify what that thing meant, because maybe this is a whole big misunderstanding.
Maybe you didn't actually acquire him.
And you're just saying, maybe that meant something else.
So maybe.
I'm just saying you're saying that it was a public fire.
You don't know, you don't, you don't, you don't know all the details, because you only know what's public.
And there was no, and there was no, there was no, there was no tweet that said you're fired.
So what did that tweet mean?
What did you mean by the tweet, remove the Babylon B from your Twitter?
What does that mean?
It means remove the Babylon B from your Twitter.
Why would you ask him to do that?
Like, what's the significance of that, I'm wondering?
Yeah.
I think the context is clear in the conversation.
Well, it's clearly not because I don't understand it.
A lot of people on this call don't understand.
A lot of people interpreted it as a firing of Gavin.
And you're now saying it.
Are you Gavin's counsel?
I'm not Gavin's counsel.
I'm just asking, we didn't make questions that people have.
Well, when Gavin's counsel wants to talk about those details, we can talk about them with his counsel.
Well, you only talk to lawyers? I mean, this is a public space. I thought, like, I'm just trying to ask a very basic question. What does that tweet mean? You're now saying it wasn't a termination. So what exactly did that tweet mean?
That tweet meant what it said? So what did it say? Could you, like, rephrase it? I'm just trying to, like, is it correct to say you did not fire him in that tweet?
I don't know I don't think that a tweet that says remove the badm-bam-b from your profile is explicitly telling somebody that they're fired no
You're reading you're reading into that and saying that it was a public firing
So what was the intent of the tweet I'm trying to I'm just trying to get my minds around exactly what you're why you tweeted that in the first place
I tweeted many times explaining myself and I already explained myself earlier in this conversation
Is there anybody who has something new?
Well, I mean, it seems like none of these questions have been answered in the first place.
He answered him all through the beginning.
He answered every single one of these questions.
And whether you agree with him or not, he answered him.
He said that he did it.
because he did not want Gavin representing the company with his behavior.
And whatever you think of the policy or what the policy is or whatever,
he answered the questions for two straight hours earlier.
He doesn't want Gavin.
I don't hear.
He doesn't want Gavin to represent the company.
I can choose who I want.
Yeah, I can choose who I want to be a public representative of the company.
Paul, Paul, that's my question.
His tweet didn't directly say is fired, but the tweet implies that that that's all this.
This is.
this whole exchange is.
You know,
the tweet didn't directly say it's fired,
but,
you know,
we can make assumptions based on
what it said removed to be.
That's the is.
Is that a...
I'm going to need to move on.
One second, Paul.
I'm not...
I'm just going to stop this.
One second.
Look, we've asked Seth a number of questions.
I'm not trying to back him up.
I asked him a lot of tough questions myself.
At the end of the day,
I get it,
you're a lawyer.
And I don't think it's fair for him
to be answering specific questions
when there is a very large possibility
this is going to go down
the legal route anyway.
and so from that perspective
in terms of the specificities
he's going to deal with that as it comes along
but it's specifically your question he answered
what you want is a more specific
answer in a specific context
and I don't think that's fair for him to answer
when he's going to most
there is a chance that this is going to go down
and that's why he asked you are you his counsel
so I think we've covered this issue
just one more point of you I don't want to belabor this
but I mean I didn't get a specific or a general answer
I'm just
trying to get an answer at all.
No, no, but this is what you're not understanding.
Like, my point is this.
You've asked a question.
I'm not saying your question is unfair,
but we've asked the same question
a number of times throughout the space.
Seth has answered it from his perspective
of how he's able to answer it.
And he's said that,
essentially, when he said remove the Babylon B,
it's because he didn't want him to be a representative of the company.
Now, you could say that that sounds like a firing,
and that's going to be something that which,
that is going to be argued by Max's team.
And Seth may argue that it wasn't,
so we don't know what that is,
but essentially that's something that's going to be dealt with in court, isn't it?
Are all employees just considered representatives of the Babylon B
who work there?
I'm just...
Trying to figure that out.
Or did you have, like, play a specific role with him?
I don't know.
I assume that any one is.
I mean, I can answer this, but obviously, SET can correct me.
I'd assume that anyone who's got a Babylon D logo on them
is in a way representing the company when they're posting.
There are people on our team who choose to put the B in their profile and have generated
followings and become public figures associated with the B either because they're on our
podcast or whatever.
But again, the decision that was made, there's been a lot of explanation of it in this conversation
and there's also my public tweets about it that you can go back in reference.
but you're you're trying to get very granular into the specifics and semantics and I'm just not interested in having a conversation like that in this form.
Do you just taking it off of Gavin though now, do you have like a no vulgarity policy?
Like could you explain what that is?
I'm not going to answer internal.
He's already said that.
I'm not going to continue.
Are you going to keep asking me questions and I'm not going to answer so that we can just
spin our wheels like this?
I mean, I think a lot of people still have these questions.
I'm not addressing these.
From what I'm seeing on Twitter and other places, it seems like a lot of people still
have a lot of questions regarding.
Yeah, Paul, he's not going to answer them.
He's not going to budge on that, I don't think.
So, you can ask it 10 different ways, buddy.
I'm just trying to figure out exactly what happened here.
I mean, the fact of the matter is the bottom line is this was a public thing.
You made this tweet on a public forum that is Twitter.
And thousands of people have seen it.
Thousands of people have retweeted it.
So, you know, now to kind of like, it seems like you're pivoting a little bit.
Now you're, you know, trying to claim like,
You're a victim here.
You're, you know, you're being unfairly harassed by whatever, by Trump people or whatever it is.
You're the one who initiated this in the first place by making this tweet in response to Gavin and doing it in so public a matter.
So, you know, I think you kind of invited this sort of.
interrogation. I'm sorry if I'm being a little harsh over here, a little tough, but, you know, I think a lot of people still have...
Yeah, and I'm not, I'm not trying to play a victim. I do think that it's nasty the way that people respond in these situations. I think that, you know, Gavin's behavior ever since has only validated the decision that I made.
Well, what exactly has he done ever since that tweet was issued yesterday?
Do you have an example?
He's continued to behave in a reprehensible manner.
By doing what?
Publicly.
So that's by tweeting in a reprehensible manner.
We're not going to go, you can go read his tweets if you'd like to.
Is that just because he supports Trump or has he done something specifically?
I want to say to that, because he has rehashed that point several times.
Yeah.
Can I just say, I want to ask one final question.
I don't want to take up too much more time.
But, Seth, do you personally have, you know, a side in this Trump versus DeSantis thing?
Do you support one candidate more than the other?
Have you...
you know, made that decision yet publicly or privately?
Is that something that you've made a determination on yet?
The Babylon B, which is what is the focus of this conversation,
what the Babylon B has done, the Bavon B doesn't endorse candidates one way or another.
If I come out and explicitly endorse one, I'll do so on my personal profile,
and that will represent my views.
But the Babylon B doesn't endorse candidates.
The Babylonby is a comedy site.
Do you endorse candidates yourself or no?
It's just through the background.
I've never, I've never formally and publicly endorsed a candidate, I don't believe.
Maybe someone could dig up an old tweet where I did.
I don't remember ever doing that.
One last thing.
Have you donated any money to either candidate, either Trump or DeSantis,
since either one has declared?
Or actually since, or maybe I should say since over the past like six months or so.
Whether I had or hadn't isn't relevant to anything, that would be a personal donation.
The Babylon B doesn't donate to candidates, and it doesn't take political positions.
I don't see how what I do personally is relevant to anything.
Did you give $40,000 to Ron DeSantis?
Because I'm seeing reports that you may have made a political contribution to Ron DeSantis.
Yeah, I've given a lot of money to DeSantis and Trump over the years.
Which candidate have you given more money to, do you know?
No, I'm not sure.
If I can step in, Nick, if that's okay.
Sure.
Go for it.
Yeah, just, Paul, first off, just this particular question on sets.
I wanted to respond really quickly just to the general line of questioning that was coming here, because I've addressed this, but the point needs to be made.
This was not a political decision.
It was not a political decision.
And it wasn't done in a way that was unfair where anyone was singled out and treated differently than other people.
It had nothing to do with DeSantis or Trump.
And, you know, the intentional framing of that is malicious.
Right.
And so I'm not claiming to be a victim.
It's just the fact of the matter that people are lying.
They're leaving information out that's relevant.
They're making a lot of the something.
And it's because there's a political war.
There's a political war here.
And everybody's going at each other's throats.
It just so happens that the person who has let go is prominent in the Trump world.
But it had nothing to do with that.
Well, no, no, it wasn't just the fact that he's prominent.
No, no, hold on, hold on a second.
It wasn't just the fact that he's prominent within the Trump world.
It's the fact that the tweet itself was made in response to a very high profile to Santa staffer, namely Christina Pushaw.
So it was an expressly political tweet.
Okay, and you fired him in response to that tweet because you objected to his characterization of
Christina Poucho, who again is a high-profile to Santis
supporter. So I mean, you could understand why some people might interpret
you know, your decision or whether or not it was a firing, whatever it was, whatever
ultimately, whatever decision you made to, you know, you don't want him representing the
I understand why, I understand why you want to frame it.
But no, look, could you understand why people might not interpret it that way?
Hey, Paul, I think that we can basically color this as this was the business decision made
on behalf of somebody who may or may not be a client.
who also happens to be associated with an opposite political affiliation, you know, as far as the primary goes, with the person who was let go, who was making said possible client uncomfortable and was done publicly to assure the relationship between that person who happens to be a political operative is not feeling...
Let's just say uneasy about this business relationship.
Hold on, hold on.
Let's not put words in my mouth.
The context of who he was speaking to,
like you guys, there's a lot of words being stuffed into my mouth on both sides.
This was a decision that had to do with a pattern of conduct with one of my employees.
well, he was representing to be publicly with our name in his handle, in his, in his bio.
And so, you know, the effort to make this, the effort to make this a political thing is ridiculous.
Had he been a dissantist supporter and was talking to people on Trump's team, the outcome would have been the same.
It wasn't about who he was talking to.
So, you know, this is, this is not, this is not a political thing.
I mean, unpopular and, you know,
sometimes reprehensible speech,
which again, satire can be defined as that in a lot of times.
It should be protected speech, right?
So, I mean, if it's a pattern of behavior,
but he works for a satire company,
which specializes in making powerful people uncomfortable,
Clearly, that should be well within his means, right?
That's not the kind of satire they do, though.
I don't think...
This person did not engage in satire.
He was not doing satire.
He was tweeting on company time while he was being paid to work.
He was spending his entire day attacking people publicly.
And that was a bad look for us.
So I don't want anybody working for me who behaves that way.
And anybody who continues or starts acting that way while they work for me will also be shown the door.
um unapologetically and with no regret so i don't care if they're talking to if i can if i
can add a few things um i know paul's no longer on the stage um but it
But to address his questions about whether Seth has donated to one or any other political candidate, it really isn't relevant because what we're really talking about here with respect to this whole Gavin Wax issue is an employment decision that Seth actually doesn't need to justify because Gavin was employed at will, right?
Right.
for most of us on this stage, we're conservatives, and we believe in at-will employment,
and we're not huge on everybody being in a union. So it's a little strange to me that
everybody is suddenly saying that Seth can't make an employment decision and is asking him to
justify it endlessly.
Of course, that he did indeed make an employment decision.
But I wanted to offer some commentary just by way of background.
I know Gavin. We're both here in New York.
I was a member of New York Young Republicans Club for much of last year, which he runs.
And I worked with him at Getter, the social media platform that was trying to be the next Twitter for most of last year as well as their directive trust and safety.
So I know Gavin.
What happened last night was not just about Gavin...
tweeting with an F word to Christina Pichol, which if anybody has looked at what happened last night,
is not really what the key issue alone was. What Gavin did was in subordination, when your employer
makes a statement to you expressing that they are displeased with something you are doing,
that you've been doing publicly, and then you respond to your employer as if your employer is below you,
You no longer have a job, okay?
That's something that I don't think anybody should really be disputing.
None of us should expect to be able to respond to our boss,
the way Gavin responded to his boss, and still have a job.
Right, right.
And I get that, Ben.
We're not arguing this on, like...
I don't agree with that because Ben...
Legal.
We're not.
No, but Ben, that's not what the argument is because...
He did not respond to Seth, as Seth, until after Seth said take the Babylon B out of your bio.
So the real question is going to be, and what's going to be deciding, caught, is was Seth's comment about Babylon B.
That's not true.
That's not true.
If I may.
It's not true.
Clarify.
I responded to, I called him out on the language that he was using the way that he was speaking to somebody.
And he quote tweeted me.
And it was in response to his quote tweet.
Correct.
Where I told him to take the B-O-O-W-A-O-W-E-O-W-E-W-E-W-E-W-Responing to me.
He was doubling down on what he was saying and how he was saying it publicly by quote-tweeting me, which, yes, of course, is-insordinate.
Gavin essentially said to Seth, your request to me doesn't matter.
Okay, you can't do that and not expect that you might lose your job.
But I wanted to really come up on this stage to talk about some of the other things that were happening last night immediately prior to what most people saw publicly, which I have some personal knowledge of.
Real quick, Ben, Ben, before you change the subject, though, just what I wanted to say,
I don't think that we're arguing whether or not Seth had the legal right to do this
or whether or not this was done, you know, basically in an unforward manner.
We're basically just saying that the optics and a blowback of this are going to look very badly
and very politically in a way where it might cut the user base of Babylon B and half,
just because a lot of people are currently fractured.
among their, you know, their target audience.
So we're just trying to point out how this is, you know, this is basically...
All the concern is just concerned about how this might impact us.
It might hurt us.
I mean, come on, this is silly.
Seems a little...
It kind of is because you guys are a very important player.
Nobody's concerned about whether this is going to hit us.
They're actually trying to make this hurt us.
Correct.
And it's, you know, look, this...
it is what it is.
People can feel about it how they want to feel about it.
But I need to hop off this space.
I've got to get running.
I've tried to be transparent addressing people's questions.
But, you know, I need to run.
Thank you for the platform, allowing me to address a lot of this.
And I hope everybody treats each other with more kindness and respect than they have up to this point.
Thanks.
Bye.
Thank you, sir.
We've been.
Sorry.
So just, I was going to read the tweets.
One second.
One second.
I was going to read the tweets that caused the, uh, the firing and essentially says from Gavin, hey, Christina Poshar, what, what's your effing problem?
That's not where it started.
That's not what I was trying to explain.
No, no.
I know.
I know.
It started from Max, but I'm talking about Seth's interaction with Gavin.
Then Gavin replied, what's yours?
And then the next tweet was,
tweeting like this with a B in your bio doesn't work for me.
So now that comment there,
tweeting like this with a B in your bio,
it doesn't work for me.
I'm guessing Gavin's team is going to argue that that was some form of firing.
And Seth's team is going to argue that it wasn't.
And then after that, Gavin then court tweeted Seth and said,
being accused of things that are false and criminal doesn't work for me.
obviously he's used the same words as Seth used back onto him but I explained the reasoning
for it and then that's when Seth said you can take the B out of your buyer I'm not with a
Ben I'm confused of anything now yeah so sorry go ahead yeah well I say what bang off you said you
knew Gavin what why did you have fired from Gatter I'm confused about that part so so I didn't
actually say that he got fired from getter um what I was going to first say is that
The Getter situation was actually a part of what happened last night.
Max Nordahl tweeted at Gavin asking him why he had worked for a company controlled by and took money from a guy named Miles Guo.
So Miles Guo is a massive serial fraudster who turned out to be the sole investor behind Getter.
Getter wasn't actually started as an American social media platform.
That's what.
We were led to believe, the public was led to believe, and what I was led to believe when I wanted to go work there and did go work there as their director of trust and safety.
In reality, while publicly it was being said that this Miles Guo character was just a small minority investor and that there were a multiplicity of investors investing in the company, it later turned out that that was not true.
Additionally, it turned out that Getter had actually been created
Again, this is something I didn't know before I went to work there, had actually been created by Miles Guo as part of his sort of web of frauds, which centers around pretending that he's like a big anti-CP activist, when in reality he's actually very close to many people who are very active in the CCP, including in certain like intelligence and counterintelligence arms of it.
In any event.
Um, Gavin was, uh, in a marketing role at Getter, uh, for most of the time that, that Getters existed and left, I think either late last year or early this year. And there was always a question, okay, did he know that Mosgro was the sole investor? Or was he hoodwinked like some of us were, including me? Um, later after he left Getter, uh, in February, and he left Getter and then went to the Babylon B. Okay. Um,
They may have had some layoffs, I believe, did have layoffs in December, January.
I left in September.
Gavin wrote a very effusive pro-Miles Guo article.
It was in Newsmax and some other places,
accusing the DOJ, the Department of Justice,
of targeting Miles Guo because he's anti-CCP,
when in reality Miles Guo stole about a billion dollars
in funds through cryptocurrency schemes and saying that he was raising money for anti-CCP non-profits
and took that money and used it mostly to buy mansions, sports cars, $36,000 mattresses,
Um, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, and and Ben, Ben, we haven't got the whole.
Yeah, yeah, to get the whole Gavin thing.
The point is, the point is Max Nordell.
One second, Ben, one second.
Isn't it the case, though, that this person you're referring to Miles, he hasn't been charged yet.
And he, no, he has been charged, uh, with wire fraud, securities fraud, conspiracy.
Sorry, he hasn't been convicted.
Yeah.
He has not been convicted. He remains in jail. He was denied bail. Correct.
Because you mentioned that you left. Were you leave or were you fired from there?
No, I left voluntarily, and I have documents that I can show you proving that.
I can get into that very briefly just to say that I saw some things that were really not kosher, really not appropriate, and not legal.
And when I raised them, they were only fixed in part the correct...
corrective action wasn't taken and I just really ultimately could not continue to be a part of that if they weren't going to change some of
the things that were happening there.
And eventually I was told that those things wouldn't change.
And so I said, I'm not comfortable being here.
And I left voluntarily.
And in fact, I have a letter of good standing signed by Jason Miller, the then CEO,
who's now back at the Trump campaign in communications roles.
I have a letter signed by him, which he actually voluntarily,
I didn't even ask for it voluntarily, wrote and signed by him and the head of HR,
saying that I left in very good standing and it was voluntary.
Right.
But here's the thing with Gavin. Max Nordau tweeted at him about his working for Getter and taking money from Mosquo.
That wasn't just about the fact that he had once worked at Getter. It was also about the fact that Gavin had been writing these pro-Malsgoo articles as late as this September, which is, by the way, after...
Getter had then in December and January basically laid off most of its Americans.
There are basically no Americans who work at Gettor.
There are no, you know, Trump people or Republicans working at Gettor.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
I can tell you that for sure.
And just to let me just very quickly finish.
And so what happened with Christina Pushall?
Ben, Ben, Ben, you just look.
If you want to do a long speech, that's fine, but you need to summarize your point succinctly within 15 seconds.
Christina Pachar liked a tweet.
Right.
Right.
Okay.
Ben, I'm not trying to be rude, but you're not listening to what I'm saying.
We can't have somebody do a monologue for half an hour about somebody's entire life story.
You need to summarize the point in 30 seconds.
If not, I'm going to move on somebody else.
I switched off because it took too so long.
Go ahead, Ben.
Here's a summary. Christina Pashaa liked a tweet that Max Nodore had written to slash about Gavin about Getter.
It was after that that Gavin then wrote his tweet saying, what the fuck is your problem?
So part of what happened last night is Gavin felt targeted and maybe nervous about and also didn't really want to discuss his past relationship with Gettor.
So I don't I can't speak to exactly what why that is, but that's kind of what set it off.
When Gavin said, Christina, what the fuck is your problem?
I don't think that was actually about Trump at all or about DeSantis at all.
I think that was because he saw that she liked that tweet.
So wait, but...
And that's a big part of the story
that no one really talked about.
And in fact, all day long,
Gavin hasn't brought that up again,
which is really interesting.
So this is like...
We're talking about this whole thing.
This is all assumptions and nothing,
you know,
nothing that really pertains...
This whole thing is because of that tweet,
which you just came to the conclusion of.
I mean, unless we're saying...
No, no, no, I hear what you're saying.
What I'm saying is,
There was a backstory, and Gavin tweeting at Christina Pashal was about something.
He hasn't talked about that again since this all diverted to talking about the Babylon B.
And I think, and by the way, you know, you're totally right to say that, well, you know, maybe this doesn't have much to do that.
But I think, you know, Gavin's welcome to come up here and say what he really thought about that.
Okay, so you're making...
I think that's the only way to resolve this.
I'm welcome. To close this...
Yeah, we have invited Gavin and I believe he is going to be talking about this soon.
Sorry, Chief, you're going to say because we are going to be wrapping up.
Yeah, I'll say to close this loop up because I just think it was a lot of information that is a lot of
just like reaches or jumps to things when this all this all this all this should be focusing about
is just how it holds the how the the that the have christina character liked the tweet from max
who has said things about a phenology and a couple other people or whatever we want to say
but he he he had made a tweet about assinuating something criminal about you know about
about Gavin or something like that.
So then put a pit on a bad light.
And Christina liked it.
And Gavin saw it as an attack on him.
And it was more of a criminal inferral.
So he said, what's her problem?
And that's what this whole thing kicked off on.
So that that should just be the...
You're better at summarizing than I am, so thanks for that.
Yeah, look, let me...
So I've been in the corporate world, also in the private political world.
I was chief marketing officer of a large telecom company in L.A.
I've been vice president of marketing.
I've been any sort of executive role, chief data officer...
and I'm telling you right now
there must have been a history going on.
You don't fire a guy.
This must have been like the last straw.
So I'm guessing there was a history of history.
problems between the CEO and Gavin.
You can't address it any of the way.
That's got to be the issue.
Just to confirm, Justin, I mean, Seth confirmed that.
So Justin's right.
And again, you don't have to believe Seth.
You don't have to agree with this decision.
But his explanation is that there was a long pattern of behavior that he didn't agree with.
And that's what it comes down to.
But he's saying...
But Bonch, the question's going to be, and I guess we're going to find this out when it goes to the court, or if Max speaks, whether there was a long pattern of behaviour is what Seth's saying, but whether he was ever, whether he ever approached Max about it.
Because if he did, then you're right.
But if he didn't, then it sounds like an excuse, like there was a long pattern of behaviour.
I didn't mention it and now I fire him.
But you're right, if there has been, and he's had like basically, and I did ask him that question,
If he's been through reprimand, if he's been through discipline, disciplinary issues, then that's a totally different perspective.
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm saying that we don't know the internals. And I'll just five seconds here. We don't know the internals. And we're kind of going back and forth and speculating. But at the end of the day,
I don't even think the answer to that question matters because, like Sebastian said earlier, he's a net will employee.
So I don't even see this going to court personally because, I mean, he's allowed to, he's allowed to fire his employee whether you agree with it or not.
So no one in this space has ever argued that you cannot fire an employee, you know, on a private company.
Not one person here has made that assertion.
The thing that, like, I'm just trying to, like, say it's...
No, but the problem is, I mean, I don't know how US law is, but in the UK, for example, that could, what happened could be unfair.
So we need to, so, so that, that, that, I believe where the B is incorporated, it wouldn't be a problem, but I'd have to look at that.
Well, hold on, hold on. Gavin's probably to do some wrongful termination thing. We'll see what happens. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm no clue or anything, but I'm guessing that. But the whole thing was,
Even in that space, he said one thing, he said it was not the volume of the tweets, but the mean spirit of things.
And then he brought the pattern.
That's why there is this disconnect with me right there.
So, guys, just I received a message from Rahim.
Obviously, I have invited him to come as well.
He is the person who has hired him.
and Max now that he was fired.
So he did a good tweet where he said,
you guys fire publicly and I hire publicly.
So I like that tweet.
But anyway, he said that for your information,
there was no pattern of behavior in the organization.
Gavin only ever received praise from his bosses.
There's not even one ever case.
I've checked.
I've checked.
Was he a W2 or a 1099?
Anyone know that?
So anyway, what I'm saying is, Justin, I'm just reading what he said.
Gotcha. No, no. What a man is, do we know if he was W2 or 1099?
I'm not sure. But could I finish the subsequent?
So what I'm saying is, I mean, Rahim hired him.
So that's something to know.
But, yeah, Justin, what did he say?
Sorry?
Was he in the U.S., if you were a W-2 employee, you are an actual employee of the company,
and you participate in its benefits.
There are requirements.
There's also laws that cover you there.
If you are a 1099 employee, you are a contractor.
Sometimes they'll give contractors titles.
I served as a chief marketing officer of a company at 1099.
So I'm just curious, was he a 1099 or was he a W-2?
Does anyone know?
hells, I don't think, right?
Yeah, we don't know.
He didn't say anything about this.
I've asked him, but, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, so just because the whole thing was, um,
the whole volume versus, you know,
amount of tweets,
and then there's a question that we brought up the,
we're not going to know about this,
but the policies about Twitter usage.
And if they're tweeting some vulgarity or something,
is there any cons for that?
You don't know if at any point, you know,
um, the boss is stat, uh,
Gavin down and told him not to do these tweets.
We have no clue about any of that information,
and he can't confirm that because it's an internal matter.
So we're doing a lot of, you know, speculating on that front.
But in reality, what we can see is that there are, at a very minimum,
are people who are with the Babylon B, who are employees,
who have not good-spirited tweets or a common pattern of using,
of vulgarity.
So whether or not
it'll be enforced,
it's up to that.
That was my whole big quown
with going in here
because I saw a selective
enforcement of things.
But then when Lumer
brings up other points
about potentially
there being other payments
and now my mind's more
into that.
So it would be a matter
Yeah, the message.
Guys, listen, I think we've covered this issue quite extensively.
We've heard the arguments from all guys.
I want to give a shout out to the team because we initially we're going to do Trump and DeSantis
and then it was quite late on.
We decided to the Babylon B.
We did invite...
and to credit to him that he came on with hardly any notice.
We invited Max.
I do believe he had prior engagements,
so he was unable to attend.
And it looks like he was basically getting a new job.
And we had Seth here for, I mean, what, over an hour cumulatively,
at least an hour cumulatively.
Felt longer than that, Nick.
I thought he was here for at least a couple, but you're probably right.
It's hard to keep track sometimes.
There's a lot that goes on in the background here, guys.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
But yeah, I do want to thank everybody.
I think we did it in a very fair and balanced manner.
We allowed people to really grill Seth.
At the same time, we did balance it out, and when people were pushing maybe too aggressively, we did try and calm it down.
So I think we balanced it quite fair.
But he was, it wasn't a situation where we brought Seth up and just let him say his narrative.
He was aggressively at certain points, emotionally as well as some points, really put to task about a number of issues.
He gave us the answers that he was able to give at this specific part time.
So now, I do appreciate Seth coming on because he was able to give his perspective.
his ideas.
You have to also understand
that there is,
this may go down
the legal avenue as well
so there may be a scenario
where he's unable to talk about certain things that essentially will impact him on court.
And just from my personal opinion, I think that's the reason why he wasn't specifying afterwards,
whether it was a number of actions that happened over time that caused this,
or whether there was a scenario where it was specifically the impact of it,
because you gave two album and some times the veracity of it or the,
or whether it happened continuously.
And I believe, in my opinion,
that's because this may go to court.
But anyway, thanks guys for listening.
Much appreciated.
We'll be back tomorrow.
I don't know what the news is,
unless something else kicks off on Twitter.
We might have another issue to talk about.
But yeah, I appreciate you guys
and see you tomorrow at 6pm Eastern.
