Let's get you guys up here and we'll get some tweets sent out share the space around we'll get started here in a minute.
Hello folks, can you hear me?
Hi, Theo, I can hear you.
Welcome guys, welcome guys. How are we doing today?
everything is great. Also, I'm a little bit jealous watching everybody going to the New York City NFT events, but that's okay.
I was literally just going through my DM list sending out invites and I'm like, "Nope, this person's there, this person's there, this person's there." It's so sad.
Definitely wish I could have gone.
Yeah, well it's okay. And I suppose we might say a lower live audience, but the good thing is that the space is recorded so people can listen right after which is a good thing. Jason, how are you? How has your day been, man?
I am good, actually. Thank you very much. I'm currently in the UK and it's raining cats and dogs, as we say here. But what we are used to rain in the UK, right? I haven't been back in the UK for a little while. I spent last year traveling.
around. So I'm back here for three weeks and it's almost rained, sort of leases, I've got back. So when I leave again, I won't miss it. I don't think. Yeah, and it's crazy a little bit, you know, because here as well, I came, for example, I remember in Chris
must here in Greece. I was walking around in a t-shirt and now for the Easter we are having big jackets because it's too cold and it's still raining and the temperature is down which is kind of messed up if you think about the periods.
It's crazy right? Everywhere seems to be slightly weird on the weather front. Yeah.
Okay, feel that disconnected. We're up all the way to the back. Yeah, your back. Great. Great.
Okay, so I'm gonna go share the link in a few groups. If you feel like starting, as we said the space is recorded, so whenever you feel like it.
Yeah, absolutely. That's probably for the best. I think sending out DMs was what rug me. So I'll hang tight and not move my phone at all or even really look at it funny while we're doing this.
space and we should be good. And while Kryptonio is sending those out, go out. How are you doing? Nice to meet you. My name is Theo Wayne. I host the space with him every Tuesday. We do this. We interview everybody.
We try to interview everybody at least one at a time and get to know them to their their fullest extent who they are where they come from and what they're working on here in Tezos. So welcome to the space. Tell us about yourself.
Sorry, dear. Is that directed to me? Yes, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. My name is Jason Ridge Raytail. I work, I'm one of the developers, Marigold Dev. So I've been
working on Tesos for a little bit more than a year, but I've worked on other blockchains in the past. It's a little bit of work on the protocol for Tesos, but then more recently on DAPS for Tesos.
I'm on the DAPS team in Marigold and most of the work recently has been on better.
Okay, cool. So you have experienced another chance. How long have you been in Web 3 as a whole?
It's probably the same as most people. I've bounced around and had it on the periphery for a long time, you know, since kind of way back in 2014 period. But actively as a full-time job or actively involved in projects probably two and a half, three years now.
Nice, yeah, about the same as most of us here in Texas. Yeah, that makes sense. Awesome. So what did you do before you got into Web 3? What made you seek a career in development here on Blockchains? So my background is math and physics.
So I have a PhD in mathematical physics and then I worked in investment banking for a long time, so probably about a decade. And then I kind of got fed up with investment banking and the kind of environment and now
and then moved into some start-up space, so I worked on a start-up for a big data company for a while, for about five years, six years. And then it was just a case of just being super interested in Web 3 to the point where I
It felt like I couldn't do any more in the start-up where I was working for big data and that type of domain. And then just, you know, the wants to work in Web3 just became overwhelming. So I was looking around
and started working for a company called Course One, who is one of the big evaluators on a number of chains. They worked there for a little while and then wanted to then work more closely to the protocol, even though I'm now on the DAP team.
an interest and having a ability to work on the protocol was quite attractive to me. So then I moved to Marigold and it's a nice mixture of being able to work on DAPS, work on things, built on the chain, but also have a viewpoint and actually work on the protocol as well. So it's a very nice mix at Marigold.
That's awesome. And I totally understand the leap from finances to Web 3. But from physics to banking, how that ended up happening.
kind of the same. I kind of went to do a PhD thinking that
Well mainly because in my undergrad degree I had a lot of very good lecturers, very good kind of lecturers who had very good answers to all of my questions. And I naively probably assumed that if I moved into doing a PhD that would also continue.
Once you get to that space in research, it becomes very political and over the time I did my PhD, I didn't really like the environment and the politicising of theory and that type of thing. So what did you still do something
with a heavy set of math and/or physics, but obviously the finance isn't really a limited self-timation to physics. But, yeah, so banking and working on trading floors and things was a good next step for me after that.
I don't want to say an answer for everything that's not the right term, but you're probably very well-knowledged on a lot of different things. That's such a diverse background, so that's really cool.
And I don't think I've ever met anybody with a PhD in physics, so that's pretty impressive. You know, even if it works, it's still really cool. Thanks.
Yeah, no problem. So Mary Gold, let's talk a little bit about Mary Gold. So what? Maybe a lot of some of these questions might You might not have the whole answer for them, but You know try your best like so we'll start with what is Mary Gold?
Who are they? What do they do? And yeah, what's going on? So Marigold, one of the core development teams that work on the Tezos Protocol, but we also provide anything really related to Tezos, anything where we can promote
solutions or tools or the community, you know, we're, it, it, everything tells us effectively. So we, we have a core team that work on the protocol, but then we also look at other solutions like BATCHER, where we can, whether it's an idea and something that we think
Is either missing or can provide some different aspect to the Tesos community or Tesos kind of DeFi or protocol or anything like that really? Any opportunity we see where there's somewhere we can improve Tesos, that's where we try to see ourselves.
Okay, yeah, and you mentioned protocols a couple times and do forgive me. I know a lot of these answers myself, but I'm trying to play the role, right?
anybody else done that. You mentioned protocols a bunch of times. Talk a little bit about protocols, what they mean for tezos and why it's so important.
So mainly, I have experience on other chains. The test is very unique in the upgrade process of protocols. The protocol is the economic protocol that sits inside.
So how effectively how it works is more or less. And that protocol can be upgraded by on chain governance but
the changes that are made in that protocol upgrade are built by a set of distributed core teams. Now these are people like Therides and Nomadic and Marigold and Trillie and a lot of other
core teams that spend their time trying to make Tesos as best as it can be. And each of these protocol upgrades will be packaged and then an on-chain vote will then
apply that protocol change to the chain with, you know, it's not like other types of chains where you have to do hard forks or, you know, fork combinators or anything like that. It's a much more seamless upgrade and it was built that way from the beginning.
Absolutely. So is it safe to say that you guys were involved in this recent one, this Mumbai upgrade that just took place? Yes, we were involved in that and much more recently we've been well we've been involved in the in the soil, the smart
optimistic world ups. So we have a core team that they work with the other core teams, depending mainly on cross-cutting concerns, but we try to get involved in every part of a protocol upgrade.
That's awesome. And so how many upgrades has Marygold been involved in? I guess which is to say, how long has Marygold been around? Marygold has been around for a couple of years.
I can only speak for my own experience. I've already been a Marigold for just over a year. So we have been involved back since Jakarta and probably before that, but I don't have the answers to what the first one was.
Okay, your card is still, yeah, a while ago. I don't remember exactly what number it is. We have so many upgrades now. I'm almost getting lost in them all. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, let's wrap around to more your expertise. So you're a dev at Marygo.
So talk to us a little bit about like what's that like? What are you working on right now? So currently we're working on Batchum. So we say grains to what battery is. So Batchum is a I call it a Batch clear
but it's probably, it's kind of related to a lot of different ideas, I think, and it's easier to explain how it works and what it is, and then everybody will put their own personal context on depending on their own viewpoint and where the history is.
You know, I can say it's a lot like a number of things, but then it's also unlike a number of things as well. You know, you can't really, it's very difficult to pigeonhole it in one place. It's not like a normal crypto decks. It's a,
Effectively we receive orders for a particular token pair, but we don't actually try to execute those orders straight away. We collect effectively those orders over a period which is currently 10 minutes and traders can buy
buy and sell orders in and then as soon as the 10 minute window is up we close the batch which means we don't accept any more deposit and then we wait for a couple of minutes just to make sure the Oracle price isn't there and we accept an Oracle price and then as soon as your
price comes in, that is when we then have a defined price for all of the deposit swarff orders. And then we execute everybody and match people up. We're not match people up, I'll go into that a bit. But we match the orders up and
then against that order price so that it's a fair exchange for as many people as we can make that fair for. Now when you put swap orders in you have a choice of tranche if you will. So when you put a biode
Let's say you can either say okay, I want to buy at the Oracle price. But there are two other branches. One of which is the Oracle price minus 10 basis points or the Oracle price plus 10 basis points. And then on the server side it's the same.
What happens is when we collect those orders together, we look at all of the charges and the weight of pressure on both sides and we say, "Okay, where is the point where we can clear the most orders fairly at fair price?" And then that's effective.
we baton and we clear those orders. Some people won't get filled because they're outside of that tolerance where we clear the most orders. A lot of people will be filled fairly on a pro-rata basis.
partially or totally or partially. And anything that's not any of their token that doesn't get filled in the order, they can redeem back themselves. So they'll get a partial fill of their token plus whatever's left over from their original order.
This is spicy. I completely knew experience. So just to sum it up from anybody who's not maybe familiar with the ongoing of the DeFi community and
all the what it takes to make an exchange and how your tokens actually work on Tesa's currently right now. This is completely new, completely
I don't want to say unheard of. I have a couple things in my head that I can maybe compare it to, but not on any decentralized Web 3 layer one like Tesos. Does Ethereum have anything similar to this?
There's some effectively that the idea was originally Arthur Brightman. He had the idea that we're implementing. Again, it comes from traditional finance. It's kind of like a dark pool, which means you can't actually see new
book. But again, exactly as you said, there are a couple of things you kind of can compare it to, but it doesn't quite fit. You know, it's a very unique thing. So one of the points is that one is
the time frame. So we don't trade straight away. So since you put your deposit in, it's not like a normal deck where you have a liquidity pool. And that's the other thing we don't have liquidity pools. Right. We're just a straight market over time. So when you put your trade in, you have to wait
into the batch closes. There's no instant execution. You put your trade in and what you're bidding on or what you're trying to swap against is a future Oracle price. And that is the fair Oracle price when we receive it. But also, all of the people in that batch
will be matched against that single oracle price. It's fair to everyone. And the pro-artor allocation of payouts at the end, so whoever gets swaps and fields of their order, also is a fair execution for users and portrayed.
Jason, if I may ask, could you explain a little bit why do we need a Oracle for this? For example, Cudents users
said their prize that they want to swap to like a limit order for example and then the butcher matches those orders. How does the Oracle help in this occasion?
Because we want them to be fairly exchanged. So they kind of do that because of the tranches. So you have some, so when you, and you can see this when you look at the UI for BATCHER, but there is the Oracle price and then there's the minus 10 basis points or the plus 10 basis points.
If you're on the buy side, why would you use those charges? Ten basis points, for example, a plus ten basis points would be a better price. You want to have a better price, but the chances of you being
field at that better price are less and conversely in a balance the minus 10 basis points is you are trying to get a what you're accepting a worse price but you're like more like it's be filled so the the the whole idea of battery is to try and
is for generally for large trades. So it's not that's not absolutely the case, but generally it makes it easier for large traders, maybe institutional investors, to trade large amounts without shifting the price. So if you go to a normal liquidity pool and
you trade a large amount and you're shifting the price. Yeah, yeah. So I suppose that the 10 basis points that you mentioned, which is like 1% of the FEMINOT mistake. So this is basically like you setting the slippage on a usual
And the point is that. So that's split that 10 basis points, which is one tenth of a percent. If you go to another deck on tensors, if you go to another deck on tensors, if you trade that large amount, you're going to get slippage or shift the price.
And that is unattractive to people who make large orders. And moreover than that, some exchanges don't have enough liquidity for you to trade. So let's say you want to trade a very large amount, there's just nowhere you can trade it.
you can trade it on a centralized exchange or you might have to split it up or use an order aggregator to shift the prices to different decks, different decks is. So BATU is trying to fill that space. It's trying to fill the space where everybody can get executed fairly but you can trade
amount and you don't have to have a fear of detrimental effect because you want to try to trade a large amount. So to take you back a little bit you said that every deposit period, let's say deposit we endow it's like
like 10 minutes, right? So let's say I want to swap a big amount of assets and I make a deposit and as opposed it needs to have, if I am a buyer, for example, I suppose there needs to be sellers also, like the other
the trade. So the budget can happen. What happens if there are not enough traders on the opposite side? Then you just get your original money back. So the point of, so if you are on the buy side and you want to trade a large amount, there
There could be sellers on the other side who also want to trade a very large amount, but there could also be a lot of small sellers that want to trade small amounts that would effectively cover some or most of your trade. So that's more attractive, right? Even if you want to, if you can get some of your trade field
in this batch and then some of your trade filled in the next batch. But it's a large amount. That's more attractive than going on to trying to find a decks where you might not be able to trade, you might be able to trade 20% of your. So your order can be partially filled as well, right?
Sorry, I can't even quite catch that. Yeah, I was saying that you can be partially feel like 70% or 50% of your order can be filled. Okay, that's great. And which Oracle are you going to be using, by the way?
So we're using a forked version of Harbinger. So the on-chain contracts are exactly the same as Harbinger's, but we've adjusted the poster inside
to effectively work on our infrastructure and be a bit more efficient for my point of view. So that's the Oracle that we will be using on my net.
Okay, all right. So I want to back up quite a bit because we still got you for another 40 minutes and I want to make sure everybody else down below and anybody who listens to the recording even if they're not into DeFi understands that you know what you guys are building right and and hopefully uses the afterless
into this recording. So I want to back up quite a bit and you know for a good example to say to show how in the weeds we are right what is an article guys you know people might not even know what an article an article is right so just to define that quickly.
I like to define it as Oracle from Batman. If you look up Oracle Batman, her role is she sets out a computer and relays data to Batman when he's operating. You can say, "So the easiest crew in the way that my
artistic brain puts two and two together is an Oracle does the same thing. If you so they're talking about the price of tezos right how does Batchard know what the price of tezos is it's because the Oracle is looking it up somewhere and telling them that's my understanding but Jason if you have
of another understanding of how Oracle works, you can go ahead. No, that's a really good energy. I like that one. Yeah, it's exactly that. We need to get some information on chain that isn't necessarily native to being on chain. And that's the way we get it.
We get it for an Oracle. And for Batch a particularly, it's the price of the pairs that we are going to open the Batches for. So for Mainnet, this is going to be TZBTC against USDT. And there's another pair which is TZBTC against the EURL.
Okay, cool. So this Oracle
Yeah, I guess it's probably not a fair question for you to ask where is this Oracle getting its data from and how it operates, right? Because you're just using it. It's Marigold Oracle. So we are getting the price count.
So, we're going to be able to get a little bit of information about the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea of the idea#
you're using Tesos and you have traded tokens before. There's a good chance you probably used unless you use something like Plenty, which is still very new. There's a good chance you've used the old ones, which are based on liquidity pools. The price of your token is just kind of magically
So what we're hearing now is that it's completely foregoing that altogether and we're using an Oracle built by Mary Gold that finds the best price for you. And that's even interesting because I should
mentioned that you guys have YouTube videos right that we can point people to as well we should get them pinned up or posted down below and I was watching one of them and I noticed you could go you don't have to have a fixed price right you can say if the price of Tesla's I think last I looked was what 119 say it
If you want to actually fill your complete order, you can actually sell it for maybe a lower number. Or if you maybe want to see you can sell for a higher number, right? Yes, so that's where the charges come in. So you can just bid at the Oracle price. And that's not even the battery UI will tell you what the
the last Oracle price update, the price actually is for your pair that you're trading. But when you put your deposit in, you are saying, OK, I want to trade fairly at a price when the batch closes. I want everybody to come together, put their orders in for
Whichever tries they want, but then everybody gets treated the same at the close of batch because the first Oracle price that comes in after the close of the batch. There's a small waiting period as well just to make sure the Oracle price isn't come before the close of the batch.
So there's a two minute wait period. But then after that, when the first Oracle price comes in, everybody gets executed from that batch against that Oracle price. But for the on the franchise, you can say, OK, I want to trade at that Oracle price, whatever that Oracle price may be at the closer batch. But also, let's say,
I want to trade, I want the biggest probability that I can in this batch that I can trade. So I can choose to have a slightly worse price but I will have a bigger probability that we filled. And then also there's the converse of that where I want to try
a large amount, let's say, and I can wait. I'm not really, really focused on trading right now, I just want to get a good price. So I can choose the top charge, which is, I'll get a better price, but there's less chance of me being filled. And I might not be filled
and I might have to go to the next batch and then try again. But then I'm not in a hurry so it doesn't really affect how I'm trading. Jason, just to clarify, once the batch is closed and the trades are settled, your trade if it doesn't get filled, it doesn't go automatically.
to the next batch, right? Like you have to really deposit in the next batch. It's not like a limit order which you can open and move it for a day, for example, right? No, it's not currently. We did discuss having that feature out of the gates, but really for
us at the moment we want to get back you out there and see how useful it is for people, how does it solve the problem we think it's going to solve. And then in the future if there's a big demand in the community and everybody says it would be useful with
they had auto, we depositing orders or something like that, like a limit order, or if people, again, are same with the 10 minute window, if people say, "Okay, we're a bit too short, maybe we'd like it a bit longer." So all of that feedback, we're kind of
really, really waiting for from the community to see where maybe the next steps of BATRA are. But we did have that discussion, but we wanted to just get BATRA out there in the simplest form that we could get it onto Maynet so that the community can then give us feedback as to what is useful for them really.
And trying to find an example other people might know when it comes to order books and filling orders.
Is it easier to compare it to this is more like a traditional Stock Exchange almost right? In a small very crude way. Yeah, it's almost like going back to the
original point where we were talking you can kind of compare it to certain things but it's not quite fit. So one way I think about it is when you think about a traditional order book the orders come in and then match straight away and then the trade
execute straight away. So if you imagine a normal order book but there's like a delay, right? So all of the orders come in and there's no execution for 10 minutes. That's kind of how it works and that's more of a way
to think about it. That's one of the ways I think about it. But then it's also in the same way as in order book is here to peer because Batches on Tezos and it's decentralized, it's almost like a here to peer.
all the matching decks. So there's a lot of ways to look at it and none of them really fit, but it's kind of better to think about how it works than it is to compare it against other things, I think.
Right, right. And the reason why people do that is is to try to get their head around why it works. How it works, right? Because this is a new technology. So like you said, there isn't anything to compare it to really. And I respect that. That's really cool.
And it's really interesting. I actually own the Twitter handle at Teso's innovation. So, you know, I'm all for this. You know, I love when new stuff arises and people are changing the game, not just adding to it or
or tweaking it slightly and putting a new brand on it but no completely innovating and changing the game and that's what it seems that you're doing and I don't know what else to compare it to at all. It's very interesting so I guess.
following your lead and sticking to how it works. I'm sure a lot of people have heard the 10 minute window and are wondering, you know, the more the deal with that and I think you've touched on it a little bit, but I want to get more, I want to break that down a little bit more.
So, I think you mentioned before that it's really, it would probably be more useful for big swaps. But yeah, we have a lot of people out here who are listening right now. I see down the list in this below who are going to record.
I'm sure I want to use this product either way, right? Whether it's a big swap or a small swap. Let's talk about some of the benefits. What's the security? Does this add more security? Is it more beneficial?
Yeah, so it's more of an attempt to fill a filler spot that we think is missing and that's generally having deep liquidity on Tezos. So kind of harps back to the point about having liquidity pool dexies if you have large trades, if you want really
deeply liquidity to move a trade but you don't want to have those negative ramifications of a liquidity pool, let's say. So you make a large trade and liquidity pool, you affect a lot of people, you affect the price, you might get some slippage on your trade. It's not just yourself, you
you're affecting. And moreover, you might not just physically be able to trade this much. Again, going back to what I said earlier, you might have to shift it between decks or having an aggregate with them.
trying to, batch of tries to fill that niche where we're trying to make it easy for this deep liquidity to come into Tesla, to beat the fuel ecosystem. And that comes back to the pairs that we've chosen. We've specifically chosen those pairs so it's
So any of the trade on battery are composable against serious decks, right? So that's why the pairs are TZBTC against USDT and TZBTC against ERL. So we have a number of blog posts, one of them is specifically on the top of the
of the Bliquidity. So if anybody is interested in that topic, I'll make sure they're on the main net blog post, but if you guys can give us a link and post them up. But one of the blog posts you've had about batteries about the Bliquidity, and it's a really interesting subject.
People are traveling to New York NFT event and so the connection might be right.
Yeah, kickin' us after like three minutes.
Okay, I'm not sure up to what point