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Tuesday | TezDay w/ Zir0h!
Recorded: April 15, 2025 Duration: 1:04:33Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent episode of Tuesday Tez Day, the discussion centered around the evolving landscape of Tezos, highlighting key partnerships, growth in Layer 2 solutions, and the importance of community engagement. Notable insights included Exeon's partnership with Etherlink, the launch of the Tezos Community Rewards Program, and the resilience of bakers during quieter market cycles.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Welcome back to Tuesday Tez Day.
I'm Blangs here with my co-host Kryptonio.
And tonight we're joined by someone who's been quietly holding it down.
And tells us, zero.
He's a baker, a longtime participant in governance, and one of those names that's always been around.
Consistent, steady, and present through all the cycles.
With sentiment pretty low right now, and actually actually activities kind of slow and it feels we
thought it'd be the perfect time to sit down with someone who's still showing up
to talk baking governance community and why he's still here so but first let's
take a quick look at what's been going on in the tezo space this week
tezo's gaming nights weekly streams featuring Tezos games
and familiar titles.
If you're into games and want to see what's actually being built on Tezos,
not in theory, but in action,
you should check out Tezos Gaming Nights.
It's a weekly stream I host with AJ from Tezos Commons
every Tuesday at 4.30pm Pacific.
We'll jump into two
games, one from the Tezos scene, like
Pike's Arena or Auto
Hero, and one that's more familiar.
Think Minecraft
or Counter-Strike 2.
No pitches, no PowerPoint decks,
just gameplay and
conversation. The vibe's
pretty casual. We're not there to hype anything up or
over explain web 3 if the game looks fun that's the point and if people want to join in while
we're playing even better that's actually how a few folks ended up on the tezos community minecraft
server so if you're building a game on tezos and want us to test it live, hit us up. And if you just want to hang out and see what these games are like,
pull up a stream next Tuesday, or this Tuesday, or the following Tuesday.
You don't need to be a blockchain expert, just someone who enjoys games
and wants to see what's possible when it's actually playable.
Check out the full article over at news.tezoscommons.org.
And Exeon joins Etherlink as a validator,
a different kind of signal for Tezos.
Validator announcements don't always grab headlines,
but this one's different.
Exeon, a subsidiary of France's EDF group,
just joined Etherlink as a validator.
This isn't your average Web3 player.
These folks run high-grade infrastructure across Europe and North America,
and they've been banking on Tezos since 2020.
They're not here to chase hype.
They build for the long haul.
So why does this matter?
Etherlink is still early.
It's Tezos' new EVM-compatible Layer 2
built on smart roll-ups.
The techs are there.
Projects are starting to build,
but we're still in that prove-it phase.
That's why Xion showing up now
sends a strong signal.
It's not just another validator.
It's validation from a company that deals in long-term infrastructure. As Arthur Brightman put it, roll-up security relies on the presence of at least one honest validator. Exion joining strengthens that backbone.
So yeah, Xion may not be flashy, but if you're watching Etherlink closely, this is the kind of move that says something's really being built here.
And it's not just promises anymore.
For the full article, head over to spotlight.tezos.com.
Alright folks, so who's tired of scrolling X for hours just to catch up on Tezos?
Let's make it simple. The Baking Sheet is your VIP pass to everything Tezos.
Weekly updates, hot community stories, and the latest news,
all landing right in your inbox.
No fluff, no endless feeds, just the good stuff.
Takes two seconds to subscribe at bakingsheet.tezoscommons.org.
Boom, you're in the loop.
Who's jumping on this?
Raise your hand.
Well, you know, figuratively.
Tezos runs on its people.
You make it epic.
The Tezos Community Rewards Program
is here to shout out the rock stars
who are building, creating,
or grinding behind the scenes.
Know someone killing it?
Nominate them at tezoscommons.org slash rewards
or slap a hashtag Tezos CRP tag on their work.
And let's get the community buzzing about all of it.
Who's got someone in mind?
Let's hear those names.
Drop that hashtag and make it happen.
All right. Well, that wraps up the news. So let's bring on Zero, a baker, a community voice, and someone who's been navigating
Tezos for years now. We're going to talk about how he got into the network, how baking works
from his point of view, and what keeps him going even when the lights
may feel a little dim.
Zero, thank you for joining us.
Let's start at the beginning.
How did you first come across Tezos?
Hello.
Can you hear me?
Brother, you sound magnificent.
Ah, great, great.
Obrigado por me receber.
Thank you for having me.
Quando eu primeiro vim para Tezos,
é porque Mike Shinoda, de Linkin Park,
estava streamando no Twitch,
então foi durante a pandemia da pandemia de Corona.
Ele estava pintando algumas peças sobre o Hiket Nunk,
então é assim que eu me desculpassei, painting some pieces on Ben Hiket Nunk. So that's how I stumbled into it, actually,
and immediately fell in love with the community.
And from there on, things actually went pretty quickly.
After a while, he started with this uh with this side project called the zirats which was a music
generative artwork for which there was a lot of interest so uh I wanted to hatch my bets in getting one. So I spun up an RPC node.
And yeah, now I'm baking for Tizzlers.
Wow.
So he wants to make sure his transaction gets through.
He wants to make sure he broadcasts it.
He doesn't want to rely on anyone else.
He's like, I'll spit up a node.
And then he's like, you know what?
No, I want in.
I want in on the governance. Wow, that's an amazing leap good for you that's powerful so now did was baking even on your radar from the start or did it take you a moment before like you realize
you know that's actually a direction i want to go well yeah baking was on my mind from the very beginning. But at the time, you needed 10,000 teslos.
And it was like still $6.
So it was completely out of my range.
So at that time, I started dollar cost averaging
to make a bit of space.
And then it got dropped to 6,000 Tessels.
And then that's when I started actually launching a Baker
on GhostNet just to get a feel for the tools
to check out how I would be running my server and all that. And then, yeah, I bit a bullet in 2023 already right now, I think.
Time flies.
And yeah, I've been baking since then pretty well, actually, I think.
I lost like one or two blocks because of a kernel problem.
But for that, the rest it's all uh all fine
no no double attestment though right you didn't double bake you didn't no no never never yeah
never see like that's one thing it's interesting okay so for anyone listening who's never really
looked into baking how would you explain what you do my man uh like running technically the the baker i mean you can go into technicalities let's let's pretend
like i'm not a real technical guy i want to i want to expand where i'm investing my money i want to
start a bakery in tesla's i it's a great place where i want to get invested i don't know much
about the tech but i kind of want want to know what does a baker do?
Can you give me a general overview,
maybe not a high overview?
Well, actually, there's not a lot to it. So you only need like a computer,
a stable internet connection, and a ledger.
So the computer you need to run the baking software,
so the node, the baker, signer, stuff like that.
Then you need a stable internet connection because yeah, you get an,
if you have enough baking power, you need to sign an attestation like pretty much every eight seconds.
So you need to be online all the time.
And then you need your ledger because you need to be online all the time. And then you need your ledger
because you need to keep your private key safe.
Otherwise, you lose all your funds.
And for the rest, yeah, you just...
I'm using TestBake,
which is a software tool by TestCapital.
So you know them probably from Baking Benjamins.
I have heard of them, yeah. Yeah yeah it's super easy to set up uh so when i started baking i i i tried baking with a couple of different
software's uh uh products so like with docker which is like a container uh then i tried the the binaries which are by
tezos themselves and then at the end i figured like tesbik was the easiest to do
tesbik is actually just a software solution that manages the installation and and upgrades of the Tezos software for you.
So you kind of upload all that thinking work to those guys.
So I was happy that that existed.
And for the rest, you just need to monitor that your baker is still online.
They have tools for that too.
They have a test watch, which is a Discord bot that
can alert you if you're missing attestations
or if you're missing blocks.
So that way you know, oh, I need to act.
I need to check out what's going on.
Yeah, it's actually really easy.
But if you want to get into baking, I would suggest you first get on a testnet and just try it out over there.
It's like you can read all the guides on the Internet.
You're not going to get a feel for it if you're not doing it actually on on a testnet where there's no
monetary value to the tokens uh if you if you make an error it's not i it's not
it's not the end of the world you can try it out uh like no. Risk getting slashed on make it easy. No, I'm kidding.
It makes total sense. Exactly.
Why are we playing games with our money, right?
Yeah.
Makes total sense. I applaud
the cautionary tale.
There's some people who would just say, dive
at first. Just go for it, right, Kevin?
Right? But we need to
try test that, just like Kevin
would say. So I appreciate that 100%.
Now, you've been baking since you said 2023, right?
Yeah.
Has baking changed much for you over the past couple of years?
I mean, over the last year or so, or technically or anything?
Has anything really changed for you?
I needed to add the download.
So that's a new piece of software that's been added over the last protocol upgrade. So it's been added in Q protocol, but it will probably get activated in R.
It's actually quite easy to add.
There's a guide on the Tezos GitLab.
There are also a couple of YouTube videos that can help you to add that.
There's docs on the Tezos Capital website too. So that's one thing that I needed to add.
And for the rest, I don't think I really did anything.
Zero?
Yeah.
A quick question on the dull node.
Yes.
Did you need to upgrade your hardware or anything? Or did you already have enough?
Like did it put any weight on your hardware, let's say, running the download?
Any noticeable weight?
No, not noticeable for me.
I know that at the very beginning, like one of the first versions,
there was a memory leak in there, but that got fixed very quickly.
And since then, I just installed the download,
and I actually never looked back at it.
So I don't even know it's there.
Yeah, it's a bit weird, I think.
Yeah, I know.
That makes sense.
That's awesome.
If it's that lightweight, that's great, especially for what it accomplishes. Yeah, yeah. That's the, yeah. Well, it's awesome. If it's that lightweight, that's great, especially
for what it accomplishes.
That's amazing.
Yeah, I'm just running this on a local consumer ADSL network.
So I have 30 megabit upload or something like that.
It's not that great, the belgium internet but it's
working fine for the download so yeah oh the belgium internet i think it's that's all right
man you guys have great internet so yeah yeah comparing to some other people i can't yeah
so you know this the market's kind of wild right now. Sentiment's a little down. What keeps you showing up and staying involved in Tezos right now?
Yeah, it's actually just a community.
So I'm with Thea.
I like the people over there.
I hang around in the Tezos Discord.
I hang around on X.
Yeah, so actually i just like it here because
i'm not baking for the for the monetary value of tezos i'm just baking because i like
the i like doing it that's uh that's all there is that's awesome man i applaud that 100 that's so
awesome that's you know that it takes people wanting this thing to succeed
at some level, really.
And thank you for that.
Do you feel like quieter cycles help
or hurt the governance process overall?
That's a good question.
I'm not sure actually.
So I hang around on the TESOS Ahura forums as well.
I didn't see any difference with Baker Activity concerning the governance.
I think because right now we're already at 60% of
quorum, so yeah, with supermajority 100%.
So I think, no, there's not much difference when it's quieter.
I think the Tesla's bakers are always active
when it comes to the governance stuff,
which is important because otherwise,
things would grind to a halt.
I've got a question from the audience, Zero.
Jan would like to know,
what makes Tesbake easier to use
than the Arctez distribution alone?
So on TESBake, you can just,
you type TESBake setup
or you type TESBake import snapshot
and in the background,
it does all that for you.
So if you want to import a snapshot
with the normal binaries,
first you have to download the thing from the Snapshots website.
And then you do the Octess node import snapshot.
You put the file name there.
It's like it's more convenient to use the little helper scripts
rather than trying to memorize all the separate commands.
I tried all the different-
You bakers don't have a Bible memorized
of all the sacred commands that you can call down
from the heavenly Tesla's to-
No, I get what you're saying.
That makes sense.
Yeah, it's called my bash history.
But yeah, sometimes I forget stuff.
No, that makes sense.
That makes sense.
I'm sorry.
I don't mean to make it bigger than anything.
Yeah, no problem.
No problem.
Yeah, but like all the different,
I use the Docker method myself also.
I've used the binary packages.
I think in the end, it's just about preference
because like for my Rionet Baker is currently just
running a Docker Compose stack, and it's working just fine.
It's like it might be even faster than TESBake to update.
Yeah, in the end, it's just a matter of taste.
And I like switching things up sometimes.
No, a guy who just wants to help support the TESA's governance
and infrastructure just likes to change things up.
No way.
No, we appreciate you big time, man.
That makes a lot of sense.
I hope that answers your question, Jan.
If you have any more questions,
I guess we're having issues getting comments on the space.
I guess if you want to retweet the space with your question,
we'll find it and we'll answer it if we can get to it.
Thank you, guys.
We're going to dig into the thinking.
I don't know if you're real in-depth or if you're more of an automatic baker.
How do you usually decide how to vote on protocol upgrades?
Are you digging into the proposals yourself, following discussions, testing things out?
I test things out.
I also follow the discussions and I ask my delegators and stakeholders what they think
about it. The most important thing is the release notes, I think. So what changed?
Do you have delegators ever reach out and ask how or why you're voting a certain way?
Yeah, absolutely.
Sometimes other bakers as well, they ask, why did you vote that?
And then I try to explain what my reasoning is.
It might not always be the correct reasoning,
but I think everyone should, yeah,
especially bakers should make up their mind,
like what's the best in the end for Tezos
and then vote how we might get there, I think.
Now, if someone is curious about how to get involved in governance beyond just
voting, where would you suggest they start?
The easiest thing might be the Tezos Discord, I think.
And then from there, you can branch out to other resources like the Tezos Discord, I think. And then from there you can branch out to other resources
like the Tezos Agora forum.
But I think yet the Discord is a low barrier of entry
where you can get answers to the simple questions.
And then if you need to have more in-depth information,
you can like reach the core teams on the Tezokas Agora forum.
You've been pretty consistent in this space.
What's helped you to stay grounded through all the ups
and the downs.
and the downs?
Stay grounded.
So, like, how I can keep continuing?
Yeah, could you attribute to your mental fortitude at all?
Like, how do you personally?
I mean, like, I understand that sometimes technology can get fickle,
but in this case how do
you handle all this well i like to experiment with stuff like for example uh i'm recently there was a
signatory update which is like a remote signer for Tizzles, like an alternative, which can do more backends like HashiCorp fault
or even just file-based keys,
which is like for development and for testing.
So I just like to learn stuff,
So I just like to learn stuff,
and I think that's why I keep interested in things.
Yeah, I break stuff, and then I try to make it.
Are you currently breaking anything and trying to remake it that you can share?
Is there anything you could share with us that you might be working on right now?
You mentioned breaking stuff.
I get excited.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Let me think.
What was the last thing that I broke?
Oh, right.
This is not related to Tezos, but one of,
so I use a couple of small computers in Proxmox cluster, which is a hypervisor.
So that way I can move stuff around without having to physically move connections like that.
And I use a couple of cheap USB network devices for that.
of cheap USB network devices for that.
And the driver is not great.
So I had to fix that to get the stuff running a bit more stable
than it was right now.
And it seems to be holding up pretty fine right now
because I can see that on my GhostNet baker if that one goes down i know oh
shit the network is down uh for that one so yeah nice so you are you are pushing the limits on your
hardware well you said it yourself though you didn't buy the highest quality did you yeah
well if you don't need it why right that's the real question yeah that's true
that's true so what do you think actually makes tezos different and not the pitch just your
personal perspective so comparing to like uh ethereum or stuff like that? Yeah, I mean, you're hanging out here,
and I know there's weird talk,
and markets are weird.
And then, of course, we have no idea
what greater markets are doing
and how we're intertwined
and what kind of leverage is holding us to what.
So big picture, you're here hanging out.
And like you said, you're baking to support.
What is it that just has that for you?
What makes it different?
Yeah, so Tezos has a great community of artists and collectors and bakers and all of that.
It's like a big plate of spaghetti where everything is intertwined with each other.
So I'm also in the TAO.
My baker is there, they're delegating to me.
So I can help a bit over there with, for example,
putting a 0% fee.
And then I also do a bit of system administration for TEA.
It's, yeah, I can't imagine me doing that like on Ethereum,
because like over there you got like OpenSea and what's the other stuff like Magic Eden, stuff like that, which are like big corporations selling art.
And yeah, it's just that this is just more friendly
than the other chains, I think.
I don't have a lot of experience with the other chains but that's
just the way how i feel like over here oh i got sucked in man i the i i bounced around early days
when i first kind of tested the water dipped my toes in the water of crypto and i was all over
the place you know we all i don't know i'd say all, but I feel like if you were around when I was around,
we all had some Tron, we all had some XRP.
You know, we were all over the place
trying to find where to hang out.
And it's really funny that I can kind of really relate
to what you're saying.
I come from a completely different perspective than you.
You're grounded, you're thinking analytically using your critical brain.
I come from the world of degenerate gambling.
I come to this community and I meet some people who are akin to me,
but they are deeply involved in the Tezis scene.
And they changed my whole view on everything.
I'm still kind of degenerate, but that's a personal choice.
But that's awesome. I'm still kind of degenerate, but, you know, that's a personal choice. But, you know, that's awesome.
I think people are huge.
People like you, people like everybody here.
I mean, we've got an audience full of amazing people
who have all just been pouring their heart out
into this community.
this community and i think that is something very different you don't see that uh rallying around
And I think that is something very different.
uh i'm sorry you just don't see that rallying around tron you don't you know what i mean you
don't see that rallying around eth like as a coin i don't know yeah it's it's a i people would call
it weird but i think this is something that everybody wants.
We have something special here.
I agree with you, man.
Yeah, it's true.
So if the network had to pick one word
to describe where it's at right now,
what do you think you would go with and why?
Oh, okay.
That's a tough question.
Yeah, I would say like progressing or like evolution
or something like that.
Yeah, it's like Tesla is always going forward.
It's like a stupid example,
but with Etherlink and the rollups that are coming up,
the tel node that's added,
like every protocol change,
it's always like incremental stuff
that just makes everything better in the end, I think.
It's as simple as that.
I like that. I like that a lot.
That's a great way to describe the network.
So say someone's just discovering Tezos right now.
What's something you'd want them to know up front um keep your seat phrase safe yeah
uh it's like more more like i instantly go to good Good man. Oh, dude, that was like the friend test right there.
Like, I mean, it's one of the, yeah, dude, good man.
My heart's with you.
Good job.
Yeah, don't sign stuff that you don't, yeah, trust.
All right, and then like beyond best practices,
what would you say?
Yeah, yeah, look around, make friends because maybe in Tezos it's a bit hard.
If you come in as a newcomer, you need to find the sources of information.
Tezos Commons is great. You need to find a newsletter i think yeah the the tesla's website itself has a couple of
great links but further than that like you have to meet the community
you don't it's okay to be shy there's no problem with that. But yeah, you can ask questions. You don't have to
be afraid to, like maybe
I'm doing air quotes now,
but ask dumb questions. There are no
dumb questions.
You can just go ahead.
Yeah.
So, I'm going to
piggyback. If someone's shy about speaking up or maybe even just joining calls,
because I know coming up and chatting up here, this can't be easy.
A lot of people don't like to do this.
It takes a real special person to put it out there.
It's a little easier with just the voice, that's for sure.
Adding in video, it becomes interesting.
But I mean, what advice would you give or say to them to help them feel more welcome
good question
yeah i don't i don't know really it's just like uh you you have to to trust that the people like here in the audience, they're all great.
You don't have to be afraid to speak over here because, yeah, you're not going to get shut down or something like that because of something you said.
of something you said everybody here is is reasonable they there's so many smart people
Everybody here is reasonable.
in here there's nothing yeah nothing should be holding you back just to to come over here
because i myself i i don't i rarely speak i think this is my third or my fourth
space that I join
I would never have done this
before
it's just yeah
that's awesome man
we just got a request from Brett I'm sure she's got a great
question for you
welcome to the stage
oh even better
come forward
stop no don't stop. Sorry I was late. But I was like, we need to in the first place, I just felt like it was just all of these guys arguing about who was more autistic.
And I just felt like, what the F is going on here?
And I'm just feeling kind of intimidated and weird and like, oh my God, there's so many men.
I literally need to sometimes step outside because I'm having panic attacks
you said autistic right not artistic
come on let's be real
whoever said we need a seed phrase
that was literally five autistic friends
arguing about who is the most autistic
and then you got
I have never shared the seed phrase
accurately from memory I will have you know
it is a powerful thing
oh but i mean i guess my tip was i i think it's good like in a nice way to troll people
and then they'll feel comfortable talking or if you're like john john of tezos he was the one
who just he was very he was so bullish he didn't bully me per se, but he just, the way he
onboarded me to Tezos was just in a, I care about you. And if you don't do this kind of thing,
like you're, it's just not good for you. Like, I'll never forget it when he had me like, so I
don't want, I don't mean like bully people to the point where they feel like you're an MLM,
but just to the point where people,
they feel like they care about you, but like he would troll me. So trolling people really helps them to talk. And at a certain point, he was just very like, when he told me to open up my Kukai,
he was like, I was about to go shopping and I didn't want to, I was going to go to the farmer's
market. And he was like, no, no, you're not going anywhere until you open your
Kukai wallet right now. It's not that hard. Just get your email and just do it now. So it's not
bullying, but we just have to be a little bit assertive with people and then troll them.
So that's my, that's just my two cents on how to get people who are afraid to talk,
to talk. And if anybody wants to add to that, go for it,
because I'm not exactly shy.
No, no, you're not.
Thank you, Red, for that.
I appreciate that.
That is great advice.
She said MLM.
If you don't know what that is, be thankful.
If you do know what that is and you're still operating, congratulations.
If you got out, congratulations even more. Anyway, moving on. Some of us received some of the best training in our lives on how to
run businesses. And so I can't talk too much down on all of that. That's just a bunch of people
trying to make it in a world where traditional didn't make sense. And you can't forgive people for trying.
So they need to do that.
And obviously I've had my share.
Hey, Zero, if baking were a video game like class,
what do you think the baker's special move would be?
What do you think the baker's special move would be?
You're asking very difficult questions.
I tried to make sure that they weren't just
like really easy ones.
So do you have to have Tezos to bake?
Well, I don't know I don't really play
games with classes actually
I'm more of a first person shooter guy
you didn't play team fortress
I did play team fortress
they had classes in team fortress
yeah like the sniper
the engineer and stuff like that the soldier
I'll get you I'll get you on these stip sniper, the engineer, and stuff like that, the soldier.
I'll get you.
I'll get you on these stipulations.
Maybe the engineer, maybe, yeah.
Ooh, engineer, I like that.
And then what would be the special move that the baker would have?
Obviously, they're not like shooting bread
out of their patriciate, but you know.
Yeah.
Ooh, special move.
I'm not a creative guy, eh? Oh, special move. I'm not a creative guy.
Oh, shit.
No, it shows.
Get to pick which target all the turrets shoot at.
That would be their special move.
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe something like that.
Maybe some sort of, I don't know.
That's a tough one.
I didn't, I made, I was like, oh, this is a good question.
And I didn't even think to try to answer it myself.
Oh my God, sorry.
It's a really good question.
I was going to ask you as well, Blank.
Like what would be your choice?
Oh, well, you know, it depends.
Are we going like sci-fi?
Are we going fantasy?
Because I mean, we can go a bunch of different directions.
Honestly, like I feel like
Tezos would be the
runecrafter. It would literally be
the guy who's got runes, like mystic,
like azure blue
glowing runes etched all around
their body. They would use those
runes to move
and change the world around them.
Anyway, Red, I see
your hand. No, no. that was just me getting click happy.
I do not need to interrupt you.
I am quite enjoying this.
Damn.
No, that's in general though.
So I don't know if I'm dating myself,
but there's an old, old book series
called The Death Gate Cycle.
Not many people read it.
I did.
It's old.
Anyway, the main character
was this guy who
he had to cover his complete
body from head to toe because he had these
runes all over his body he was a weird guy
he would travel through these gates anyway
he was a total outcast nobody understood
what he was doing and yet he was like the biggest
badass in the room everywhere he went so
in my mind of course that would be Tezos
but I don't know
that's pretty cool.
Yeah, that's cool.
I had in mind, like, you know, because I was
more of a WoW guy, like
Warcraft and stuff. Sure.
I thought
that, immediately thought, like, about
Druids. Do you remember
Druids, the Druid class? Yeah, the
guys with the, like, long beards
and the white, the long flowing robes, the, like, early transvestites. Yeah, the guys with the long beards and the long flowing robes,
the early transvestites.
Yeah, they could usually do
everything all other classes did,
you know, like a multi-tool, let's say.
Yeah, and they had affinity
with nature, too.
Yeah, totally.
I see Ryan
requested. That was a good question.
I went ahead and pulled him up as well.
Ryan, do you have some input on this question as well?
This kind of got us going.
Sorry.
Ryan, welcome to the stage.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I had to join the conversation.
It's very important stuff.
So I think like the bakers just have a mountain of bread
that just gets bigger and bigger.
And sometimes it gets smaller, but
overall...
I'm muted, but I'm laughing.
I'm muted, but I'm laughing.
I just got off of separate
spaces, so I've been talking
for a while.
That was good, man.
Would it be bread or would it be crescentcent rolls would it be all kinds of bread would there be like buns would be maybe cakes in there god i don't know like what kind of well
wouldn't it be wouldn't it be croissants since it's from France?
I don't know.
But, Zero, you're in Belgium, right?
So you could, you know,
you could bake something more nationally.
Belgium.
Hey, Zero, nice to hear you again.
Hello.
What do they have in Belgium?
What kind of bread do they eat?
French fries. Really? If French fries count as bread i'm moving to
belgium that's amazing yeah uh yeah i don't know do we have good bread i don't think so like
chocolate and beer yeah but bread what is what is belgium known for? Chocolate and beer. He just said it, man. Chocolate and beer.
Chocolate and beer.
Beer is liquid bread, maybe.
Yes, yes.
I've heard that argument before.
I like that argument.
Wait, it just hit me.
Zero.
Were you at TESDEV last year?
I pretty much never leave my house.
But TESDEV was not far from where I work,
so maybe next time.
I came there, bro.
I couldn't have met you.
Yeah, it's true.
Now, Zero, what is the weirdest or most unexpected thing
that you've seen happen in TezEv since you've been here?
Let me think.
I'm drawing a blank right now.
I remember when Sibu lost it
and then he put up these
19 million proposals and everybody's like
this is not a good thing that he's doing.
That was pretty wild.
What else?
When was that?
That was I think just before
you came in.
That was just before you came in.
That was some of the earlier drama. Yeah, that sounds like oh right just before you came in so i mean like that was some
of the earlier drama so yeah that sounds like that was a really weird thing yeah that was wild
man when they were like i think there were like 11 different proposals and they were all just
snippets of his opinion we did in this it was pretty intense like he was making a point his
point was very clear you know yeah but it's weird oh we have another request you know what i'm opening up
the floor for questions if anyone has a question for zero zero is the man of the hour so kevin
welcome man congratulations on oh not yet soon your bakery is almost up and running isn't it
oh i think he's transitioning he is transitioning from the audience to the state to be clear right
yeah hi hi kevin welcome welcome asking me a question and then it
yeah where you actually addressed it to me that i would know that it's for me
yep and the first half of the question got cut off because I was moving from one to the other. That's right.
And then when I, of course, invariably did not hear it, I was just like, it's on me?
No, it's on us.
I picked an awkward time to ask you the question.
It's on me.
What was the question?
How are you?
That's it?
Pretty much.
Too complicated.
I don't know these.
I like this gotcha journalism of yours.
It is gotcha journalism.
Asking the hard questions.
I'm asking the hard questions up here.
You already heard.
So how are you, Kevin?
Welcome, welcome.
How's everything going?
Do you have that bakery up yet?
It's like, how about that novel you've been working on it's been a long time well you uh you now uh when do you yeah we did a thing
with chris um we did the testnet baker so it's like okay all right i'm gonna do the uh
the main net baker now um and then well is he here like chris uh like you said something to me like
about like oh there'll be some updates going on so the process to like get started might change a
little so maybe wait for that it's like oh so i guess we'll do another one of these videos and
then i'll use that as the basis for the actual maker. So that's going to happen.
It's still gone.
It's still moving forward.
Yeah, well, baking is changing.
How's it changing?
A couple.
I mean, there's...
I think the process is a little bit different now.
That's all.
But the long term, there are ideas of how we can...
There's a transition. long-term there are ideas of how we can,
there's a transition.
It's really great that we can all bake on
Raspberry Pis on some very little,
tiny amount of,
we have to balance basically the robustness that we need
for the Tezos X roadmap with the leanness of a baker.
So I think in those conversations, figuring out what are the incremental levels of scaling stuff up.
So I mean, yeah, you have to imagine baking will change over time.
But I think in the end, the fundamental idea of this is accessible to people.
I mean, it's the most accessible it's ever
been if price is a thing right now i'm kind of curious you brought up a great point kevin huge
point here zero the hardware you're baking on are you uh is it sort of like is it part of your
sort of ethos that it needs to be as accessible as possible sort of as it used to be or is that sort of changing too do you find like
what kevin mentioned still accessible i think because like i'm i'm basically baking on on junk
it's pretty much e-waste my mainnet baker is an old laptop from which the screen is broken
is an old laptop from which the screen is broken.
My GhostNet Baker is like an old Intel NUC,
like an i3 or something like that.
So I think it's still very accessible.
Yeah.
When we get to the point of specifically of like
when we want to get block times to be like under eight seconds,
right, and we're all using these Ledger nano s's or a lot of people are um there's like something that it there's a limit to what it
can do so there's work being done now to figure out like and you know well maybe the industry
might change and hardware like wallets might be uh um changed and we might see that come out but
like ledger doesn't so as we get more ambitious with
this we like there are all the different parts of the um sounds like zero in this network
pushing it to the limit yeah so there were some benchmarks uh not very long ago, like comparing the Nano S, Nano S Plus, and Nano X,
like with the different key derivatives.
So like, and in the end, it was best to use DZ3 key,
because that was the fastest on that hardware, I think.
So there might be still some juice in the Nano S Plus stuff.
Yeah, so I see where you're going with the decreasing block times each time,
because if you go lower block times, the entire chain that's between you
and the rest of the network has to be able to respond
to requests in less than whatever the block time is.
block time is.
So yeah.
So, yeah.
So what I'm doing for that is like, this may be a bit technical,
but I switched my ghostnet baker to a consensus key,
which is running on a vault cluster, which is then accessed
by signatory, which is a remote signer.
And that way, it responds in a couple of milliseconds.
It's way faster than a nano S or S plus or X.
But yeah, that's not something um a lot of uh like consumer bakers will be able to do
so yeah it's uh it's important that it still uh stays accessible on these uh consumer devices
like the ledgers right so now they want to like um the work is being done in a with uh bls um signers or bls
signing uh hardware wallets and all that so um but of course yeah like there isn't going to be
uh like a requirement for it i mean if it if it were to come to that point, then like, uh, I think it'll be in like significant amount
of time that like that it wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation.
Or, you know, I think I imagine if everybody needs to get these, you know, little devices
that like, I think they could probably spring for that, the cost of it.
Um, at least at this early stage but i mean we're talking about
like stuff getting to grow like um i think there there is and can be a market even for people who
would sell like kits even right now for for the way things are like people like uh like these
kinds of services like there could be services that are like hey you want to start a tesla's
baker i'm sure there are a lot of people right now who would do it if the option of doing so were just
kind of made simple for them and maybe it's not simple to the point of like oh you just have this
little thing you download and then you open it up and then you're done no we're not there yet but
it for a lot of people it is simple enough and it's like look come to this site and then buy
this package and you get the thing you used to sign for it.
You get the little mini PC that you used to plug it in.
You'll get the instructions.
And you'll get a year of support.
Somebody you can talk to who will help you set it up.
I mean, there are variations of this.
I'm just spitballing.
But Jovan Smith, old legend of Tezos,
who passed away a couple years ago, unfortunately,
but he helped set up what was like basically half the network
of people who had bakers.
And like he had just a little service where he took a little stipend
and like he'd guide them all, tell people what they needed
and, you know, walk them through it on, you know,
whatever webcamming thing was around. That was before
Zoom, I guess. Anyway, but yeah, like, and that was pretty good business for him. And like,
slowly but surely, he was able to really populate a lot of bakers on Tezos. So,
and I think that even extended to like people who wanted to get set up on Avalanche because there was a lot of overlap there once upon a time.
But there's more stuff that can be done.
So yeah, like Bake Buddy, it's a great service.
And it really is, I think, the service,
the dedication that those guys put into it
and answering questions and all that stuff.
But there are a lot of ways to simplify it.
I think that's something that
works we have it now but we just don't talk about it we should be getting a lot more bakers i feel
zero zero i think a while ago tried to get me to become a baker you know and he was like so easy that's kind of like a running joke you know and like so easy for you you know
and i i i used to do uh validation on ethereum you know and i i understand it's a whole different
thing but like never again like it was you know it was a lot more work than you think it would be
It was a lot more work than you think it would be.
So yeah, if there's a way to simplify it, that'd be great.
Because I mean, right there.
There exists already a service that does something like that.
So it's middle.dev, I think.
So they sent you a remote signer.
So they sent you a Raspberry Pi with a ledger.
And then you run that on your
local network that way your keys with you and then all the other stuff like the bacon and notes they
run on the on the cloud i think so on teslos yeah it's something oh really uh even that sounds
uh even that sounds hard yeah it's true yeah oh maybe it can be made easier if you like use
cloudflare tunnels or something like that yeah but i do i think kevin's right though like
there will be interest if um you know people can see you know even if it takes a lot of work you
know um because uh i think it's a lot think a lot of the work is really in the maintenance.
Because it's not just running a rig,
but you got to keep up with all the updates.
And with Tezos, you have the additional responsibility, right?
Of being part of the whole governance.
But for that, you can just use a different ledger.
So like me, for example, I have four ledgers, I think.
So like there are a couple dedicated to my Baker.
So those are those are always there, always up and running.
And then I have different ledgers for like sign for uh the voting on etherlink or for
the voting for uh governance oh wow yeah it's a lot to manage you know i do think it's like uh
it it's a good it it's a full-time job you know if you want to do it like. Yeah, you can keep tinkering with it.
So sometimes I need to say, like, stop touching this stuff,
go do something else, or I just keep playing with it.
I think I would be tinkering all the time, man, honestly.
Yeah.
Zero, on that note, I wanted to ask you, like,
was there anything, any feature, any change that came to the network, you know, through an upgrade or something that you might not really liked or yet you would like to see differently?
Or maybe something that is coming?
I don't know.
Like, has there been anything like that? No, I don't think so like but I maybe I'm an easy guy when it comes to
that so if stuff changes I I see that as like a learning experience or yeah it's
something new I like new stuff. Ooh, shiny.
There you go.
Tezos is perfect.
He can quote zero.
Yeah, I don't see it.
Like seriously, as a baker for me right now, there are, yeah,
this may be like one downside it's like if you uh if you're baking and you pull the
plug on your computer the the database gets corrupted and then you need to restore a snapshot
but that's like something tiny i'm not going to whine about that and then like for the rest
i don't see like anything that's really bothering me, honestly.
Are you one of those guys that you, every six months,
will just wipe your computer because you just feel like there's too much crap on it
and you need to start fresh?
Are you one of those guys?
I used to be like that, but now I'm too lazy to do that.
Yes, yes.
Take pride in my formatting abilities, you know.
Like, oh, I can get a system up in, like, 32 minutes.
Oh, you are that guy.
Yeah, like Windows XP Service Pack 1, like, in 39 minutes or something like that.
Right, right, right, exactly.
No, like, most of the proposals have been, would say reasonable you know like yeah you know there's
some things maybe you don't agree with but but you see like okay i see the logic in that right
yeah and so they're like with the with the adaptive issues and stuff like that. There were discussions in the community and some ping pong,
the alternative proposals that were injected.
And yeah, there were a couple of pros and cons
to either one of them.
But I think in the end, as a TESOS community we made a
choice and now we're here and I think we're still going strong.
How was the new staking mechanism you know and moving from having just delegators to
getting stakers and everything like
how did you see like your delegators
did they turn into stakers
easily or
yeah I have
like there was this
I don't know
competition
a couple of months after staking
was launched
to get bakers to have more more stakers uh on on yeah
yeah like it was i think yeah with the biggest percentage or something that got yeah yeah but i
couldn't uh compete with that because like all of pretty much all of my delegators were already turned into stakers.
Oh, you were full already?
Yeah.
So you were one of those bakers, like Libertas down in the audience,
who had turned their stake, to accept stakes,
staking from the get-go, right?
As soon as it launched.
Yeah.
I do remember that uh you know
the the bakers that were um following the upgrades and everything and that activated to accept
staking early on they all got filled out so fast and yeah yeah yeah a reason because of that good
apy as well right like you you got some good APY out of it as well.
Yeah, it was 19% uncertainty like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the reason for that was you have to set your delegate parameters, I think, four cycles
before they get activated.
So there were a couple of bakers like myself
that set them before the new proposal was activated.
And because of that, I was able to accept a lot of stakers
like the first couple of days.
How do you see
the new real features?
The reducing of
the cycle time and everything?
I like it a lot.
I think it's going to make
a...
For example, the thing that
one cycle is three days now,
it's a bit annoying for people
because for example,
3 days, it's 2.7.
Yeah, 2.8.
Yeah, yeah, it's like that.
So if you un-stake right now, yeah,
you have to say, come back in like 11-ish days.
Maybe you can finalize then.
If you screw up, man, it's like 12. And then people get mad at you because you missed your window.
Yeah.
Right now, you can just say, yeah, it's going to be four days.
Great.
Done.
So I think that's a big one.
What else was there?
I forget. I think there was something about the, like, how soon a baker
goes inactive if he's not throwing up and stuff. Something like that. That's also related to the
shorter cycles. So if you stop your baker and then you stay inactive for a couple of cycles,
you get deactivated. And after that, you have to reactivate your baker manually
to start baking again.
So I think it's that.
But you're also getting the baking rights back faster
than you used to, right?
Yeah.
You can reactivate faster as well.
Yeah.
Well, I think it's a good thing because it makes everything
more reactive.
So less waiting is always better, I think.
That's awesome.
Well, we are at that hour mark zero and i wanted to say thank you uh usually we don't like to keep
our guests on much longer than that just it's it's a lot and we know but uh it did is there
anything else uh you would want to say that this was really fun.
I like doing this.
Thank you for having me.
It's great talking to you all.
Well, thank you, man,
for taking the time out of your day
to make this happen,
the time out of your week.
I mean, this is...
It is daunting to come up
in front of people and speak.
And, I mean, I've heard a, I've heard a statement that,
people fear this worse than death.
They'd rather not talk in front of people.
They'd rather die.
And,
you know,
and so I,
I appreciate you doing this.
All of you,
everybody who came up today and talk,
I appreciate you all of you.
So thank you,
especially you zero,
man.
Thank you for,
for making this happen.
It was a great episode.
Yeah.
All right. Well, that is going to do it for this a great episode today. All right.
Well, that is going to do it
for this week's episode of Tuesday, Tez Day.
Big thanks again to Zero for joining us
and giving us an honest, grounded look
at what it means to be part of Tezos.
And that's through both the noise and the quiet.
Now, before we go, quick reminder,
if you know someone in the Tezos community
who's doing solid work,
whether they're building, writing, mentoring, or just showing up, you can nominate them for the Tezos Community Rewards Program at tezoscommons.org slash rewards.
We'll be back next Tuesday with another episode.
But until then, stay curious, stay involved, and we'll catch you next time.
Thanks for joining us.
