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Twitter Ad Implementation - Purchase Twitter blue to use?🎙
Recorded: Feb. 8, 2023 Duration: 2:09:51Space Recording
Full Transcription
I don't know.
Twitter.
Let's, you know,
Thank you, everyone.
Hello, everyone.
I hear you guys are talking about Twitter Blue, and there is an interesting detail that
I noticed, and I'm kind of curious what you guys think about it.
So when Twitter Blue came out, Elon Musk was, you know, a blue subscriber.
You could see that his blue checkmark was because of Twitter Blue.
Then he changed his name to Mr. Twit, right?
And then he had a hard time changing it back.
Like he couldn't change it back.
He even tweeted about it, right?
And if you check on his blue checkmark now, it no longer says it's Twitter Blue.
It's because it's a legacy verified account.
It may be notable or not.
So my question to you guys is, what do you make of it?
Like how come he's no longer subscribed?
Or is he now?
Or what's the situation?
Because there's definitely, it looks like it's a bit of a mess.
I mean, he inherited quite the mess.
So it's going to take some time to fix.
But like, yeah.
I think if you have a legacy, if you had a legacy blue account and you're also subscribed to Twitter Blue,
it's going to show the legacy text over the Twitter Blue text.
That's one part of it.
I was going to say, I have the documents.
I can definitely answer this question.
Not to, you know, over talk or, you know, whatever.
But that whole thing with Mr. Tweet was a, it was an in-joke.
There were people who, like, could I call it, you know, legit blue check celebrities and whatnot.
Doja Cat was one of them.
I think one of the Green Brothers was another.
They are in the habit of changing their username, their handle, their display name for various reasons, various seasons,
which Twitter as official policy has always discouraged for verified users.
They don't enforce it or they weren't enforcing it, but they wouldn't explicitly, like, say, like, we would prefer that verified users not change their display name.
And what happened when Twitter Blue came in and Elon came in is he started enforcing that more fiercely.
And now there's reasons and all kinds of more pernicious aspects of that, but he was enforcing that more fiercely.
So if you change your handle, you were locked into that handle for, I don't know, like a week or two weeks or whatever.
And so he was, I think, just making a joke about the celebrities that got their handles locked because they changed them.
Go ahead, Motivelli.
I was just thinking a little bit of a side note here about what Elon was saying.
I think I remember he did a space when he originally took over, and one of the things he said was, like, you know, if you could spend 30 minutes on Twitter, I'm paraphrasing.
If you spend 30 minutes on Twitter and then, you know, you put it away, you feel good versus feeling not good.
And that always stuck with me because I think he is trying to improve it in a way that it's just been so crazy lately.
But back on the ad thing, you know, I think for most people, at least in this space or what I've been seeing lately, spaces in general have just been so fun.
And, like, just connecting with people and hearing all different perspectives about stuff, it's just been so much funner and faster than just looking at the timeline.
So I guess the question is, do we think ads are going to jump into spaces?
Like, if you look at your phone right now, do you think the spaces will be monetized in the sense that if you do create a space, instead of saying, you know, you have a sponsor or you want to plug something, that you could actually run ads in the space UI?
Like, that would be kind of interesting, but also kind of scary.
But done tastefully, you know, like, let's say, like, the aquarium had a sponsor for something and they wanted to keep it going in the space itself.
Like, that could be, I hate to use this word, but that could be delightful and it could be a win for everybody.
You know, instead of just thinking of just sponsored ads, just pushing at the top of the timeline, like meeting people where they are with the relevance and stuff that they're into could be cool, especially with spaces.
Yeah, I am also very excited about that, if that is the direction they're going on, direction they're going in.
And I think it, I mean, I would hope it's the direction that they're going in.
Digital, let me pass the mic to you.
I don't want to hog it.
The panel speak.
Cool.
Hey, Digital, it's really, really hard to...
You're a low body, brother.
Yeah, we can understand you.
Hey, Digital, it's really hard to understand you if you don't mind reconnecting, maybe.
Or, yeah, I don't know.
It's kind of difficult to pick up on what you're saying.
But, I mean, you can already kind of do that mode of value, right?
You can do it indirectly with outside sponsors or people that might want to promote a product.
Say, sponsor, you know, this episode of the aquarium is sponsored by so-and-so.
Or, stop and say, hey, you know, this blender by Vitamix is one of the best blenders in the world.
And get paid for a promotion on that, through that route.
Sorry, guys, I'm a little loopy today.
Having a hard time talking.
But, yeah, I don't know if we're going to see the full power of Twitter ads soon.
But I think eventually we will.
And I also just wanted to echo the comment about feeling like I'm wasting time.
When I'm on Instagram and I'm just scrolling, and I'm not really on Instagram anymore.
But when I used to be on Instagram and scrolling, I felt like I just wasted so much time.
And I don't feel that way on Twitter.
Mainly because of the people I follow and the content that they share.
Or Instagram is more of a social media app where you're following friends.
And your friends are just sharing stories of being at work or going to Starbucks or being on vacation.
But, Acti, go ahead.
Yeah.
I was trying to...
Well, I'm not trying to play, like, devil's advocate or anything like that.
But I got to say, like, some of the ads that I'm getting on Twitter are actually useful.
So, I don't know if anybody else has, like, the way I've set up, like, my personal one is I'm following just the people that I'm interested in.
And only the topics that I care about.
And I'm, you know, into entertainment and all that.
I got YouTube for that.
You know, I'm not following, like, streamers and all that.
I got Twitch for that.
So, from this kind of discoverability standpoint, it's super good.
And some of the ads that I've been getting, I got to admit, I've clicked on them and I've gotten value from some of them.
Because I think the algorithm behind how this whole social dynamic with spreading ideas in a very short format gets around,
I think the algorithm with Twitter is doing a good job of putting stuff in front of you that you enjoy.
And it's like you said, like, when you put it down, you feel like, oh, okay, you know, I've read this little nice thread about liquid staking.
I read this other guy made a little thread about how he yields somewhere else and all this.
And when I put it down, I was like, okay, you know, I got some stuff to look forward to.
But I've also learned something.
I follow some interesting topics.
And I do get that value.
So, I don't know how much this kind of discoverability protocol engagement algorithm that they have in the back is going to be worked into the ads, right?
But I think they have a pretty good team that knows how to kind of spread the word out there.
And I don't feel the same way, like, on Facebook, where it's just polarizing topics that go to the top, you know.
I find a lot of stuff on my feed that just, you know, has a couple of hundred views and, you know, a lot of people just engaging there.
And it's a super niche topic or something of that sort.
So, from that point of view, I like it.
And the ads, they don't bother me as much.
So, yeah, that's what I had to say.
I feel you, man.
I mean, for me, I parse it like this.
And, again, we've established my Twitter bona fides.
I don't really use much else in terms of social media.
I was a big Reddit guy for a while.
Now, significantly not.
There's a story there, but I won't go into it unless you ask me.
But I don't really use other socials.
I have accounts there just for, like, you know, reservation of username.
But I don't really use Instagram.
I don't really use Facebook, et cetera.
I think Instagram basically is more of, like, the messenger app that a lot of people use these days.
Even now that, like, most apps have native DMs or private messages, Instagram is still, like, that's where you hit somebody up.
Or, you know, the visual component, right, you're basically, like, using it as something across between, like, a magazine, maybe a sexy magazine, as well as, like, a dating app.
That's kind of what people use Instagram for is my assessment.
But, yeah.
I agree with you, Quinn.
I was thinking, like, what people are often in their own silos.
You bring up Reddit, and people on Reddit are often just on Reddit, even if they're in kind of crypto or, like, you know, Wall Street bets, whatever.
And people on Instagram are often mostly just on Instagram.
There's not a lot of crossover between, like, those places and here.
Because I'll go on Reddit and Instagram and talk to people and ask them, like, hey, are you into crypto NFTs?
Do you go on Twitter?
And, like, 99% of the time, they're, like, Twitter is straight trash.
They just badmouth it.
And I'm thinking, like, okay, what do we use Twitter for?
It's, like, we use Twitter for, like, information gathering, business, this kind of more of, like, networking connection stuff and obviously, like, Web3.
And it's just interesting to me that, like, I think if Twitter could grow a little bit and become more versatile, it could become more than – because, you know, people want to use Twitter for education.
We kind of, like – a lot of people on Twitter just hang out here and, like – I'm sorry, education, but entertainment.
Even though we don't really have a lot of entertainment here, but, like, shows like this, other Twitter spaces are kind of our entertainment, right?
Like, they're social – a lot of the Twitter spaces, they say they're, quote, unquote, entertainment where they're trying to be funny and just be, like, silly and stuff like that and, you know, make fun of each other, whatever, or just hang out.
But that's the question.
A lot of people are, like, Twitter maxis where they want to stay the same.
They want to keep it how it is.
They don't want to add, like, video and all this kind of, like, functionality to it.
They want to keep it, like, Twitter is Twitter if you want to go and just watch a bunch of funny videos, go to TikTok and stuff.
And, you know, who knows?
Maybe that's a good idea too.
But, you know, since I'm on Twitter so much, I don't go on Instagram and TikTok very much.
I want to because I want to see what people are up to and just get, like, an idea of what's going on and, like, what the social consciousness is, you know, and connect with people in different ways.
I've had, like, things on Instagram and TikTok go viral randomly, but I just don't do very much there currently.
I'm probably going to do more on it.
But, like, if Twitter had more functionality, I would be doing all kinds of stuff for Twitter.
And I don't know, but it's going to be a hard thing, like, a Rubik's Cube for them to figure out, I think, of how to do it.
How do you integrate this stuff with Twitter, you know, and, like, video, whatever it is, I guess.
Because, I mean, the best quality about Twitter is it's very easy to jump into a Twitter space and just start talking and connecting with people.
Go on their profile, see what they're up to, and just make all these connections really quickly, whereas you can't do that as easily on other apps.
And how do you do that but also still add in some more value?
And that's what they've got to figure out.
Motivelli, go for it.
Yeah, I love how this is jumping into other social networks and stuff.
And, Doug, I agree with a lot of what you're saying with Instagram.
I've actually changed up the way that I use these socials.
So I'm a big fan of TikTok.
I do like Instagram, and I like Twitter.
This is my second Twitter account since, like, my OG account from, I guess, when they started.
But anyway, I've evolved the way that I use these socials, and I'm just wondering if anyone else here has as well.
Like, Instagram used to be about posting real fun photos, and then maybe you get an ad pumped in the feed.
I actually don't even use Instagram for posting on the feed.
I use it for stories.
And it has really replaced Snapchat in the sense that I have this network of people that I actually know, that I actually hang out with on a day-to-day basis or family or friends or whatever.
And I see them in stories.
And I love that feeling of stories.
I feel like it's low barrier.
It's easy.
It's ephemeral.
It just goes away.
I don't have to think too much about it.
But it gives another side of a little bit more authentic side to people.
But what I've noticed about Instagram, what they're doing is they're pumping in ads in the stories.
So if you look at one story, maybe your second swipe is an ad or your third swipe is an ad.
And sometimes they're pretty good, and sometimes they're not.
But there's just like these integrations with ads where they're starting to see where people are using the apps more or less.
Whereas I feel like with Twitter, I do value it, but I have to work for it.
I got to really work for who's talking, where are they doing, what are they saying.
Are these words and these letters wasting my time?
Is this an inside joke?
Where am I?
I have to orient very hard on Twitter, at least I find I do.
The information doesn't come to me easily on Twitter.
I have to investigate the information and whittle through it a little bit.
Whereas on TikTok, I have an interest based on my viewing behavior, which is all about motorcycle stuff.
It all comes to me.
And I'm engaging with these communities.
And I have this reach, a bigger reach than I have ever had.
Mostly because I'm an active content creator and an active consumer on TikTok.
But that's a sweet spot, right?
So I might be one of these users that has this sweet spot of engagement where some users that have these accounts, like Quinn, you were mentioning, reserving your name.
So just in case you want to get into it and you move through it, these opportunities to use social in these niche ways, like replacing Snapchat or finding the information that you need on Twitter.
Like it's just this balance between how much does the algorithm work for you versus how much does the user have to work for getting the value out of it?
And I think that's where I see the balance.
That's a great point, Modo.
And I want to like think it brings me back to the day like last week or something when Elon was like, hey, by the way, everyone, just in case you didn't know this secret feature of Twitter.
If you click on your profile, you can make a list and you can make a list of all of your people that you follow and actually and actually the people you actually want to pay attention to.
And I'm like, why isn't Twitter doing that for me already?
And I went to go make one and I started adding people.
And after adding three people, I was like, this is way too much work.
No one's ever going to do this.
Like, right.
So that, that UI was, was the, the value prop of Google plus when Google plus came out, they said, hey, you can get your, you can put a list together.
Basically, you can put a circle together of the things that you're interested in so that you can silo your social behavior and get value out of that.
And then I think it was like, like three weeks later, Facebook released lists, which is like, which is the same concept as circles.
Whereas TikTok says, hey, forget your lists, forget, forget working for it.
If you are interested in pimple popping, we'll just show you pimple popping.
You know what I mean?
If you watch this for three microseconds, we'll find, we'll say to you that that's your interest.
And, and they're, they're judging that behavior and using it to work for, for, so that you don't have to work for it, which is wild.
I mean, if I was Elon Musk right now and I have my feet up at Twitter and I'm pulling on some levers and I'm like throwing, you know, like some paper airplanes around the room and balling up some wads of paper and throwing them into like the basketball hoop over my like waste basket and stuff.
And I'm like, hey guys, let's spitball some ideas.
I'd be like, bro, maybe give someone a different option with the algorithm.
Maybe give them an alternate algorithm of what pops up in their feed or a different kind of feed or something.
Do something, innovate, do something different.
Elon, don't just keep on making our PFPs stuck and charging us $11 an hour to argue with each other about everything.
Like the, the personality of leadership trickles down into the project, right?
Elon is probably very left brain, very much like, like spectrum type dude who like doesn't understand social things, but tries to.
And, um, you know, maybe he needs to get a buddy or someone that has a concept of how social things work.
Like Quinn over here, maybe it should be you.
I don't know.
So that's, wow, what a lead in, uh, I, I mean, sure, uh, Elon, please hire me.
I, I, uh, I could use a job, but, um, uh, and honest and honestly, going back to, to this whole circles versus, uh, algo thing.
Like, I think the other problem with circles is circles kind of runs counter to the way I think of someone else alluded to that we actually use the platform.
And I'd argue it's the way the platform should be used.
Uh, I'm very much of the belief that organic interactions and like engaging with randos and finding people that aren't, that you don't know, that aren't, you know, already your friends, uh, is a huge part of Twitter's, uh, value prop.
Not everybody sees it that way.
Some people get really hostile when, uh, they are engaged with by people that they don't know or aren't following them.
But I think there's value in that.
Uh, I don't, I, I've often said, like, if you only talk to the people you already know, if you have privated or protected tweets or accounts, if you're siloing yourself, maybe Twitter is not the platform for you.
Like, go back to Instagram, go back to, you know, Facebook, go back to wherever, where you can, like, where it's more geared toward that.
Twitter, I think, is about that organic engagement and serendipity, in my opinion.
And I think that's why circles is kind of like, meh, whatever.
I think you're right, Quinn, but the problem is I'm a degen, and when I open Twitter, it's 90% grifting and people going, like, bro, um, if you're still awake right now and you're, like, hardcore NFTs interact with this tweet, and I'm just, like, throwing my phone across the room, being like, this is, this is what my life is, reading a tweet feed full of a bunch of, like, 23-year-old, like, influencer grifters that have no clue left from right but are, like, getting all the traction on Twitter somehow, and I don't even follow them.
Like, so, at the same time, what you're saying is totally true because part of my day is that, finding cool things, but then people hijack whatever's going on, and then they just run these, like, douchey tweets all day long, and they get so much engagement, and nothing is happening there.
Go into their Twitter space, and they're all just screaming at each other about some dumb topic that makes no sense, and I'm just, like, you know what I mean?
Like, we can probably improve it a little bit, Elon, thank you.
Please, Elon, hire Quinn.
Maybe he's got a cool hat that at least will upgrade your office atmosphere, okay?
Yeah, I think drama sells, man, and maybe that's why you're seeing these ridiculous posts and these crazy spaces getting so much engagement.
Some of the longest spaces that we've had have been around Twitter, but more specifically, Elon Musk's Twitter, and it's always interesting to see the contrast of opinions because people either love it, they hate it, they're somewhere in the middle, and you get the opposite of an echo chamber, and I think those make the best broadcasts.
Motivelli.
Well said.
Well said.
I love this.
You know, Twitter, to me, is one of these old-school social network platforms.
I think I mentioned this before on the show, but it is an old social network.
It's got a bunch of power users.
Like, everyone here, I think, right now, maybe I'm generalizing, but, you know, like Quinn was saying, like, finding their organic reach and then connecting with those people.
Like, that is a good mindset to have, but it's also, like, a very old-school social network mindset to have where I think Twitter is really doing well with spaces, and I think they should capitalize on that and push that out and blow that up even harder than they're doing now because at Doug's point, like, yeah, you go on the feed, and the feed is a little degenerate.
You're like, what are they saying?
What are they even talking about?
What does this mean?
Why am I wasting my time here?
And that's, I think, the point where the algorithms can start to hide that stuff automatically.
You know, that would be, like, a good iteration into just consuming the tweets, just the regular user behavior for Twitter to say, okay, well, we're throwing up these tweets, and this user doesn't really seem to be liking this stuff.
So we're just going to, like, suppress it a little bit more, hide it, and see what it is that they're interested in.
And that's, like, that active algorithm balance that could happen in the feed to make the experience better, to elevate it away from just, like, this old-school navigate, find-what-you-want-connect-with-people model, and just bring it closer to, like, all right, Twitter is evolving.
It's going to, you know, it's going to do things behind the scenes that you're not seeing to make the experience a little bit better for you.
And I think that's what the popular social networks like TikTok are doing really, really well, is that they're able to engage with people, and they don't even know why everything is so good that they're getting.
It's because the app is listening to their behavior, and Twitter doesn't really listen to the behavior as much.
It puts the load on the user to figure out what to do.
And I think that's why the younger kids, hello, fellow kids, like, they look at Twitter like, oh, this is just, like, this is, like, a boomer app, like a Gen X app, whatever.
And, you know, there is some truth to that.
Like, we know how to navigate it, you know?
I think what you're saying is we need, you know, like, usually you have, like, in social media, like, or somewhere like a spam button, we need, like, a grifter button, like, you know, or, like, what level of shitposting do you accept in your Twitter feed or something, right?
Like, just a general concept of, like, would you like us to curate this feed a little bit so that you can have, like, more thoughtful conversations and stuff, you know what I mean?
At the same time, I do appreciate the idea of it being a little bit more, like, open and reckless where anything can happen.
And I think Elon kind of does like that a little bit, right?
Like, we're, like, you know, the idea of having open debate, anybody's idea can be a good idea.
And I do agree with that.
I like fresh ideas.
I don't even care if you just got on Twitter today, you might have a great idea.
You could come up and talk in this space right now and say something that's a different perspective that's fresh and new and from a different viewpoint, right?
And I really actually like that a lot.
In fact, that's sometimes my favorite thing.
But when you see a common, you know, pattern where someone just shitposts or grifts all day, it's like, you know, maybe we can have an algorithm that just helps that out a little bit.
Because what happens then is that becomes even more attractive for people to do.
And they do it more and more and more.
And that becomes everything that you see.
So, I don't know.
I'm just on a personal tirade this month.
Like, February is Black History Month.
But can February also on the down low be like, hey, let's be a little bit more genuine on Twitter month too, maybe.
Putting it out there.
Motivelli, I wanted to ask what you love about TikTok so much.
I know a lot of people love TikTok.
But what do you personally enjoy about the application that keeps you coming back?
So, there's a couple things.
But to create on TikTok is very, very, very easy.
It's very fast.
You're opening up with a camera just like you open up your camera in Snapchat.
Like, when Snapchat came out, the UI was the camera.
You're just getting video constantly.
There is no barrier when you open TikTok.
It's boom.
You're in video.
You're consuming video.
And you have the ability to create video as quickly as you're consuming it.
And I think a lot of people don't see that because they're still just kind of getting their feet wet with TikTok.
Also, there's something very, very, very simple and minor about their UI that I really love.
And it's the swiping through content.
So, if you notice like when you're on Instagram or you're on Twitter and you're swiping down the page on the phone, you have to stop it.
You have to hit the brakes with your thumb.
You literally have to stop it, go back a little bit, you know, move your thumb a little bit and get that content positioned well in your screen.
With TikTok, the video takes up the full screen.
One swipe, boom, you're in the next piece of content, the next piece of content.
And like I was saying earlier, the more time you spend on engaging with a specific piece of content, and I'm talking in the microseconds,
the more you're going to start seeing that come to you next time you open the app.
So, it's very, very simple.
It's just basically video, always there.
It's snapping as you scroll, as you swipe.
Super easy to create it.
And then you're getting actual stuff that you find interesting.
And that comes with a little bit of, you know, training.
You want to train it a little bit.
Like sometimes, you know, my friends and I or my wife will be like, oh, I saw this thing on TikTok or my kid will be into something.
So, I'll get into something on TikTok and then my whole feed will be like weird Venus flytraps for a while, for example.
But then it'll go away because my natural like viewing behavior or my natural like swiping behavior.
And I think that that's just super, super interesting.
The other thing is like, you know, connecting with people that are interested in this stuff that you're interested in.
TikTok works, you probably heard this before and, you know, I'm a maxi with TikTok.
I really believe in it.
But it is an interest graph.
It's not based on the people you're following.
Like the people that you're following on Twitter, the people you're following on Instagram, you rely on those people to give you the content.
And a lot of times the content isn't that great all the time, whereas on TikTok, it's actually like if you're into fishing, like this is a weird metaphor, like you're into baked potatoes.
If you're into anything, if you're interested in it and you spend enough time on it, the niche will explode on your feed and you'll be like, oh, my gosh, like forget about filter bubbles.
You found your tribe of people that are into making baked potatoes the way that you make them.
Like it's wild.
Well, yeah, I mean, I think what you and Hype are talking about is the difference in algorithms as well.
It's like TikTok uses a more and there's something to be said about the TikTok algorithm.
Now it's different, different countries, blah, blah, blah.
But I'm not going to go there yet.
Like the algorithm that we see on TikTok in America and North America is like similar to the YouTube algorithm where you watch, you know, X and R cat videos.
Suddenly your whole feed is cat videos.
And like, I think that is a key difference, whereas the Twitter algo potentially is skewed more toward, again, who you're following, what you actually engage with.
And it's a little bit more intricate in that way versus, yeah, like if you're on TikTok, it's just like, hey, I'm going to go watch this, you know, girl do a bunch of dancing.
And then suddenly it's a bunch of high schoolers doing dancing all over your feed, whatever.
Yeah, there's a lot to that algo.
There's also this one thing that I don't touch on a lot, but I always appreciate it when I see it in TikTok.
And it's this idea of asking a question.
So you can ask a question and a comment, right?
And then you can ask that to all of your followers and then your followers can respond with video.
Or you can respond to a comment with a video.
So a lot of times, like, you know, when we respond in threads, it's hard to get the tonality of people when you're typing comments.
But when you can respond with a video and if you get comfortable with a video or if you're creating your own responses to video, your personality, your tones, your cadences come out really well.
And it builds on top of itself and then the discussions and start to become threads of videos as opposed to just threads of comments.
And I've never seen that really happen as powerful as it does on TikTok.
Just moving through comments that are responses to other comments that are actually videos.
So what you're saying is that TikTok and Twitter could combine.
We could make, like, Twitter, or I mean, sorry, we could make Twitter, you know, you just created this vision in my head of, like, Twitter scrolling more like TikTok-ish where it's going, like, maybe one at a time.
And maybe it could be text or it could be video or it could be a photo.
Like, that's what all the other social media apps are doing is, like, the stories thing where things just kind of go by rather quickly and it's very easy for you.
Like, I, if Twitter was like that for me, I would probably be cool.
I probably would like that.
And maybe you can switch between different modes.
Maybe you could have that mode or the quick flip mode where you just go through fast maybe.
I don't know.
But, like, that doesn't sound terrible to me.
Because the thing is that if you have to spend more time looking at each tweet and thinking about what is actually going on with it, people will then be incentivized to make their tweets actually more valuable.
And, like, so that when people look at it and interact with it, it'll be, you know, that'll be worth their time and worth your time because that's an opportunity for you to then engage and get feedback, have someone do a video back at you, whatever it is.
I mean, I don't know.
Twitter's kind of a very thing where, like, short attention span, go through things quickly, comment quick, jump back and forth between spaces.
Like, there's literally right now four spaces I want to be in, right, that either, like, people like Spotty Wi-Fi has a space right now who's my homie and there's an ENS space going on right now.
But I'm here because I care more about this show and the feedback and the stuff we're talking about.
I'm going to spend my time in the place where I feel like the most value is going to be had across the board.
And that's kind of, like, how our brains think even for the feed, too, right?
Or at least maybe they should.
So, I don't know.
Maybe they could do an experimental, like, alternate feed where you click on something and then you get, like, this more TikTok-y type thing.
And it sounds like Elon wants to integrate stuff like that.
I just hope that he does it in a good way and he's waiting until he makes a bunch of bags is what he's saying.
He's basically, like, that NFT project that's like, bro, buy the NFTs and then we'll see what happens, bro.
Potentially.
I mean, maybe.
I'll say as one of the residents or Twitter maxis that I'm a little neutral to negative on too many changes to Twitter to make it more like other socials.
So, I think that's something that under previous leadership, under Jack and under, I think it was, was it Dick?
That was not always the best philosophy.
Like, making Twitter be more like Twitter, I think, is usually a winning strategy.
Like, let it be itself.
But to Modo's point, the threading, actually, I think they got that from Tumblr, of all things.
And when I'm told, and again, I have accounts on all these platforms, I don't always use them.
Tumblr has this thing where you can, like, thread a thread, a thread, you know, thread a comment, thread a, you know, top-level comment to another top-level comment.
And it becomes this whole big, you know, collage.
And on TikTok, they have that to where, like you were saying, it could be replies, where it could also just be, like, a sort of narrative, evolving narrative story.
Like, I remember there was this video of this guy who was like, hey, this is my girlfriend.
And she didn't, like, seem very, I don't know if you guys remember that meme.
This is my girlfriend.
Oh, my God.
It's Star Wars.
And, like, it got threaded by another thing that made it look like a hostage situation, and another thing that was like, the police are being called.
So there's all kinds of different possibilities.
But, yeah, I would definitely want Twitter to be more like Twitter, as well as implementing good features, but maybe not trying too much to be like other socials and losing an idea of what it is itself.
It's too late, Quinn.
I'm writing a letter to Elon right now to say make it more like Tumblr.
That's a fantastic idea.
Moda, go for it, man.
We have a small panel, so you guys can just go back and forth, and I'll time it.
Cool.
Yeah, Quinn, what you were saying with the picture-in-picture.
So that feature is called a stitch.
So if you make a video on TikTok and you're like, hey, I'm hanging out with Twitter, right?
I could take that video, stitch it, so it basically combines what you said and what I responded to, which is similar.
What I was talking about was if someone replies in a comment on a video, the creator of that video can respond to that comment with a video, and that comment is pinned on the video.
But that video is independent and its own piece of content.
So tapping into the comments on the video, I know I'm getting into the weeds a little bit, you can start to go back and you can stay in this thread because there's context within the original post.
But one of the reasons I had my hand up was because – so back when Jack was running things at Twitter, like there was a – you probably all know this, but there was a video service called Vine, and Vine was six-second videos.
And Vine was hot – Vine was really hot.
It was blowing up.
Twitter acquired Vine in 2012, I think it was, and they shut it down, or they just didn't do anything with it.
And TikTok filled that void of the quick video.
So the reason I think TikTok is so popular now is because there was a – not to say a generation, but there was a large user base that was using Vine that was making very quick – I'm stuttering all over my words – very quick to-the-point videos for these micro-videos.
And when Twitter shut down Vine, they didn't do anything with it.
So like Twitter had the opportunity, I think, to do something with video, and they just haven't done it with video.
But I think now they have to do it, whether that is part of the feed or whether it's a standalone Twitter video app.
I don't think they can survive in 2023 moving forward unless they really just blow up spaces in a way that we've never seen before.
I think they have to do some level of video integration.
And lastly, I will say on one of these points about video, there was a very small window – I don't know if you all remember this – when they tried to do stories.
They called them fleets.
And there were stories on Twitter for like maybe a month or so.
And at first I was like, ah, this sucks.
It's like everyone's doing stories.
Like LinkedIn's doing stories.
It's like it's never going to be as good.
But I think what I did notice about seeing people do stories or do fleets on Twitter is I started to see photos.
I started to see them in the context of full screen.
I didn't have to like tap into these dumb thumbnails that expanded out or see these little four thumbnail carousels on Twitter.
Like it was just like here's an alternate side to the content or to the person that you know.
And then fleets died.
And who knows why they died.
But they've got to do something to come back to evolve it.
To Quinn's point, like I don't think they'll go away from that true Twitter, you know, news take, explorative take on content, texting, writing, microblogging.
But I do think that they need to evolve it if they're going to get the eyeballs, if they're going to get these younger generations of kids to find the value.
They're consuming content in completely different ways.
Okay, now I'm going to continue to badmouth Twitter for like 30 seconds and then I'm going to flip a 1A to you.
Ready for this?
Okay, so Twitter's terrible.
It's kind of like we have all these small pictures on PFPs.
We hide behind NFTs.
It's kind of like dehumanizing.
It almost like allows people to treat each other like terribly even in certain aspects because you're just like, oh, they're just a little speck on the screen.
But with Fleets or anything else, maybe if you see more of their life or who they are, maybe we'll like connect more.
I don't know, maybe.
Or it gives you a chance more to even like make fun of them, I guess.
But this is a thing we can do on Twitter, guys.
I can be like, hey, everyone in the room that wants to see Fleets come back, give me a thumbs up or a heart.
Who wants Fleets to come back?
Who wants to see some stories, video, or photos pop up on, let's see, I'm looking through the room right now.
How many hearts do we have?
Sometimes it takes a second for them to show up.
So far, I'm really quick.
I care more about what makes the app better and more robust.
I'm just going to throw that out there.
But sorry, Doug, continue.
Well, that's fine.
Interrupting me is a good idea because no one's giving me hearts right now.
Either they're so into Twitter that they don't want it to change or they're just not used to interacting.
Because, you know, in DGEN spaces, we're hitting those emojis left and right.
They might not know where the emoji button is, Noah, because you're so good at putting on spaces that's about conversation that's very intriguing.
They don't even care.
They don't even go to, like, this low-level heart 100 emoji thumbs up thing.
But I like to use it because you can get immediate, like, feedback on Twitter spaces from people.
And I want people to feel engaged.
I want them to feel like they can give feedback and be part of the conversation even when you have a room of 200 people.
Or you have a tweet that you can put out and anybody can comment from anywhere on it, which is really great.
That aspect of Twitter is fantastic.
But if we can make it a little bit more connected, I think, and a little bit more humane, I think, would be really great.
Because then we would never have to leave Twitter.
We could just be on Twitter all the time and not even go to TikTok or Instagram.
And Elon would make tons and tons of money.
And everyone would be happily ever after, Quinn.
So, like, I don't know why they're doing it.
They're going against capitalism, which is weird to me.
Maybe they're communists.
I don't know.
Well, you know, you're crazy, but I like you.
So, I would say Fleets failed because people didn't like it.
And that's just the truth.
And I would say, honestly, to my earlier point about Twitter, like, being Twitter.
And I think perhaps under Elon, it's tried to be more itself, even though there have been a lot of changes.
It hasn't done a lot of the stuff that it did under Dick Costello of, like, NJAC, of, like,
we're going to copy other socials in hopes of, like, currying favor with the new generation.
Because at the end of the day, things are different for a reason.
You go to McDonald's for one experience.
You go to Ann Out for another experience.
You go to Whataburger.
You go to an actual, like, sit-down, like, Michelin star restaurant for another experience.
You wouldn't want McDonald's to pretend that it was Michelin.
And you wouldn't want Twitter to pretend that it's TikTok.
I wouldn't necessarily want to get all of my – if I was a social media maven, if I was, like, you know, a teenage girl and I was, like, holding, like, multiple apps on my phone,
I wouldn't necessarily want Twitter to become my main, the only thing I go to.
Because I go to Twitter for one thing, Instagram for another, Snapchat for another, TikTok for another.
And so I think there's value to differentiation.
And that also is part of capitalism.
It's part of competition.
So that's what I would say to that.
But, yeah.
I agree with you on that 100%, Quinn.
What I will say is that I think the reason the engagement has felt a little degenerate on the timeline, maybe.
Maybe not so much in the spaces.
The spaces is kind of like we're all adults.
And we've got the emojis going and we've got good moderation and a really fun space here.
Thank you again, Noah.
But I think, historically, Twitter has been about elevating and amplifying controversial tweets, historically.
And when controversial tweets get amplified, it equals engagement.
And engagement equals time on site because people are responding.
And typically, people are responding on Twitter negatively to controversial tweets.
And then that negativity creates engagement, which also sells ads.
So it all ties in holistically.
And I think what we're seeing now is kind of the tail end of the type of engagement that Twitter has been known for historically,
which is like if I'm loud, if I'm controversial, if I say a bunch of shit that creates, you know, a gut reaction or something that makes someone react emotionally,
that's going to equal engagement.
And that's just not the way social has to be.
A good example, like a good way to think about this is Reddit, right?
If you go into a subreddit, you are engaging within a topic that you already are interested in.
And then you're seeing things that have been upvoted.
And there's community moderation, right?
Whereas that never had really been the sense on Twitter.
Twitter has always been very, very open like that.
But a good way to think about what I'm trying to describe, and I don't know if I'm doing a good job with it,
is that the topics that you are interested in when you look at Reddit versus when you look at Twitter,
doing that work, you know, working through that noise on Twitter is so much easier on Reddit when you're in a sub
that you're already engaging through that has moderation, that has upvoting of actual answers that are giving you more value.
Like when you turn off Reddit sometimes, not all the time, obviously it's always different.
But when you turn it off, you're like, okay, I got something out of that.
Whereas on Twitter, you're like, oh, I got to figure out how to get through this.
I got to figure out what they're trying to say here or what the agenda or what the motive is.
I can see that.
I mean, my problem with Reddit, you know, from my experience, and I was a big Reddit guy for a while,
so I can definitely speak to this too.
My problem there is that there's a lot of siloing, and there's siloing everywhere, siloing here too,
but there's a lot of siloing.
And again, like, it's not just that you're becoming a Reddit maxi, it's because it's that you become a maxi of the subs that you follow.
And, you know, it's less, I would say, creator focused.
So in that way, you could say it's good, it's more democratic.
But I mean, there's like power sectors, you know, mods and admins.
And I think the problem there becomes a lot of groupthink and a lot of, like, we sort of, like, self-reinforcing bubbles.
Like, we all agree on these things, and therefore we're right, whereas whether people like it or not,
and again, I've talked about how I've engaged with people and they've not liked it.
But on Twitter, at least, there's the potential to have your bubble popped.
And I think that is a good thing, whereas it seems like you can get stuck in a bubble much more on Reddit.
And that's not so great.
Hey, Marco, I know you're trying to come up to the panel.
Looks like you're still connecting.
So we'll give you a sec there.
Never mind, move back down.
I mean, I think silos are inevitables.
You're going to have silos regardless of – I didn't spend too much time on Reddit ever.
But more recently, I have been just reading subreddits.
And I find that the kind of individual hive minds with respect to things that I'm interested in are quite intriguing to read
because people have insights that I couldn't even come up with myself if I tried.
But then I'm able to add that to my toolkit.
And when I'm having a conversation with somebody else, excuse me, I'm able to sort of regurgitate that information in a way that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to.
I find the same thing with Twitter threads as well.
It's why I like Twitter.
It's why I'm enjoying Reddit a lot more than I did – or that I do Instagram, Facebook.
Well, Facebook I'm not really on anymore.
But social media apps that I grew up with, I guess since I was younger, I cared more about what people were posting, what people were doing.
And now I care more about information and bettering myself, at least in the areas that I'm interested in.
But just going back to the point I was going to make was that I think – what are some ways, Quinn, that you think a social media ecosystem can be less siloed than it currently is, than they currently are?
Oh, man.
I appreciate so much deference.
You guys really need to – if you guys are serious, you really need to send my resume out to some Silicon Valley types.
They could use the referrals.
But I would say, for starters, lean into – like I said, lean into what you're good at.
Reddit is a message board.
They're a forming app.
So Reddit leans into that, and they've been successful.
They've done other things.
They've done social audio.
They have their own version of, like, spaces basically called Reddit Talk.
I think they're winding it down, but they at least had it.
They had their Twits competitor in ARPAN, but in general, the forum aspect still reigns supreme.
That's what most people go there for, and frankly, a lot of people resent sometimes on that platform those experiments and those other formats that are very different from forming with Twitter.
Yeah, it's microblogging.
It's text.
It's pith.
It's anything from random musings to pontification.
Pontification is not a neutral word.
It's not a good word.
But it is what some people objectively do on here.
And so leaning into those things, but in ways that encourage engagement, and, yeah, probably some amount of polarity because that's just going to be the thing, getting new users to do the same thing that existing users do.
That's basically – that, I think, is, like, the key to all of this.
It's not about trying to court different or new users that don't do what your existing user base does.
It's trying to encourage new people to do what your existing user base already does.
It's like when you're – it's like when you're – to use a weird analogy, but just go with it.
When you're a political – when you're campaigning in politics, you're trying to get new supporters, and you're trying to get those new supporters to do the same thing that your existing supporters do.
You're trying to vote for you, you know, campaign for you, donate to you.
You're not trying to get new supporters to do – like, it's not like you're trying to get the initial supporters to vote for you, the new supporters to campaign for – I mean, there's different, like, categories, potentially.
But you're not trying to get each person to do something different and, essentially, like, misolating yourself.
Ideally, you're not misolating yourself to each group.
You're saying, like, this is what I am, this is what I do, and I want you to come join me so we can all do this thing together.
And so I think leaning into an existing strength and just saying, like, we are the best for this, which, again, even with all its problems, Twitter is the best for microblogging and musing and serendipity, I think.
Leaning into that, that's how you succeed.
So that would be my kind of disjointed answer.
Right on.
Shoot me your resume afterwards, and I'll pump it out to my friends in Silicon Valley and get you hired.
Well, guys, I mean, this has been a smaller aquarium, a smaller panel than we're typically used to, but I found that the conversation was quite interesting.
We went on some fun tangents.
Vine was mentioned earlier, and Motivelli, I think it was you saying that Twitter needs to implement some sort of Vine integration, some sort of video integration into the app in order to compete,
or at least capture some of the, or intrigue some of the user base that we see on TikTok, for example.
And, yeah, I guess the question I have for you is, if they do too much of that, doesn't TikTok lose what makes it TikTok, which is, like, I think Quinn was saying,
this, like, micro-blogging ecosystem where people come and read threads and learn from each other in that format?
Yeah, I think, well, so I'm going to put my product design hat on for a second.
I think that just because an app does a feature doesn't make it as good as that app, right?
Like, if you put in fleets, it doesn't make it as good as Snapchat or as good as Instagram stories.
And I think that social media software in general is at that level right now where it's mature enough to understand that they can't necessarily clone quickly to create the same level of engagement.
So I'll just leave, I'll just put that part as, like, part one of that.
And then for the second part, it's like, well, I don't know what the latest stats are for Twitter in terms of engagement,
but my hunch is that they're not on this big upswing like other social media apps are.
So then the question is, okay, well, why is that?
Is it demographic?
Is it time on the, you know, on the site?
And then going back into this holistic vision with advertisement or how do you keep the lights on?
You need engagement in order to get money, in order to get engagement.
It's like a chick, social has always been a chicken or the egg problem, right?
So the short answer is, yeah, you can't clone a feature, pop it into an app and expect magic to happen overnight.
But what we can do is we can look at user behavior.
We could say, well, look how many more people are sharing photos or sharing videos or posting content from other platforms within Twitter, right?
Are there opportunities there to do better with embedding?
Like, here's one that just grinds me.
And maybe you guys will relate to this.
But when YouTube embeds first came out, this idea that, okay, I could embed content in a tweet and then I could see it.
I could consume it, right?
That's actually not the case.
If you've ever posted a link to a YouTube video, you just get this giant scraped thumbnail with all this garbage metadata underneath it.
And then you tap on it and it opens up the web browser or the in-app Twitter browser, which then you have to open up to YouTube.
So it's completely broken.
And the reason is because platforms don't want you to leave the platform that they're in, right?
But if all this other content is making its way in, if the behavior is, hey, let's consume some of this content, then the answer has to be, and again, I don't have the specific implementation answer, but the answer for Twitter has to be, how are we going to be doing Twitter for video?
What does Twitter video even mean?
It probably isn't TikTok, right?
But it has to mean something.
Could it be like, you know how like Gary Vee does these like walk and talks and he has himself just filming the camera and it's just really awesome.
He's on the street and he just says like 30 seconds and then he just puts that and uploads that.
That's great.
But you can't access that stuff unless you follow him or you find video.
There's no interest that says, hey, this video that's about this cool thing in New York City, you'll never, ever discover that.
The discovery is completely broken with video.
So there are opportunities.
You know, we could probably talk all day about an implementation, but I think the answer is what's the video version of Twitter that's good for Twitter power users like Quinn and myself and everyone else here that actually complements the experience
as opposed to makes it jarring like Fleets was very, very jarring, right?
So to kind of summarize what you said in my own words, you think the best strategy is to take the most popular and alluring components of other social media apps, whether it's the story function, whether it's the short format video function,
and integrate them into Twitter, so that Twitter is what it currently is, right?
It has its kind of native, or rather, it has its roots intact, but also is integrating these popular streams of entertainment and content and news
that would potentially make folks who strictly like consuming those X, Ys, and Zs to come over to Twitter and participate in this ecosystem.
Correct. It doesn't have to necessarily take over, like, you know, thinking again in terms of like features, it doesn't have to take over, but it's there.
Because I think with social, and we know this from history, like you evolve or you die.
Like, yes, there are going to be diehard Twitter users, diehard TikTok, Instagram users.
But if they don't take those next leaps into following the trends of user behavior, then eventually they're just going to kind of fall through the wayside.
And I don't think that's the goal for Twitter.
I think the goal for Twitter is to just keep evolving and iterating itself into 2023, right?
Like, this is a dinosaur social media platform.
It's good. It's great.
I have nothing bad to say about it other than there's opportunity there.
And I think that if they did take that video, you know, even live streaming was really, really great.
Like, they had Meerkat for a while, I think it was.
And there was live streaming that was happening, but the content wasn't so great.
Live streaming on TikTok is bananas.
You could send money to people.
They're going to implement crypto.
You could start sending crypto to people for live streams.
Like, the level of video that could be used, it doesn't have to be passive, right?
It doesn't have to be, like, TV watching video where it's like, all right, what's this?
All right, let me swipe.
What's on next?
But, like, imagine there was, like, the live component of the aquarium that was also accessible to people if they wanted to.
And then they could do the audio version on Spaces if they wanted to.
So, you know, it's about what's appropriate for Twitter.
And, again, I don't have the answer for that.
I have some hunches, but I think they have to evolve with it, or they're just going to fizzle away.
I'm going to call on Marco in one second.
And, yeah, man, I agree.
I think that we've seen Instagram follow that model with stories.
I think there was one point where Mark Zuckerberg wanted to acquire Snapchat.
Snapchat didn't get acquired, and so Instagram said they were just going to copy this model.
I've seen WhatsApp even try to copy the story model with little to no success, in my opinion.
But really, probably you need to have – I don't know the word for it, honestly.
I can't really think of how to articulate this best.
But I can see why it doesn't work for an app like Snapchat but does work for Instagram.
You've seen YouTube and Instagram both implement shorts upon the rise of TikTok.
I don't know if Instagram was doing shorts before TikTok, but definitely after TikTok.
They weren't.
They were?
They were not.
They implemented shorts because of – it was a response to TikTok.
Yeah, it's just a testament to your point.
It's really important to evolve and to stick with the trends.
You can remain loyal to the initial ethos, the original ethos of what made your social media ecosystem popular, but it's important to be open-minded.
Marco, welcome to the panel.
I don't want to speak now, Noah, because you said, wait a second, and I'm leaning into my millennial side, and I think you made me wait five minutes, so I'm bored now.
So thank you, but no, thank you.
Okay.
I'm only joking.
I'm only joking.
I'm only joking.
I'm going to quote Quinn here.
So, Quinn, so, Noah, thank you for allowing me to come up and pontificate, but I'll – I'm walking my dog, so I can't emote while I'm talking at the same time, so forgive me.
Motivelli, good to see you again, my friend.
I was listening with great interest to what you were saying, and I was going to say, to your point about Twitter – I'm paraphrasing here,
but I think you said Twitter needs to incorporate video to evolve, and then it almost – you then, in the next few sentences, it's almost like you contradict yourself,
and I don't think contradiction is the right word.
I think conflicted – probably conflicted yourself, and what sort of sprung to my mind was, doesn't every social media platform have its own lane?
And I think you touched on this, you know, you can't take features, various features from platforms and then clone it.
That's probably impossible.
But even then, you know, you can't be all things to all people.
And, you know, you touched on Reddit, and I was reflecting when you were talking about that.
You know, I use a lot of social platforms myself.
I go to Reddit.
There are various subreddits I'm very interested in, Gen Z Mafia, for example.
And Reddit, for me, is a conversational place.
Twitter, for me, I don't think – this is just my perspective – I don't view Twitter as a place to have a conversation.
I look at it – I'm quite disillusioned with Twitter, actually.
I think it's all just about engagement farming, and I'm always thinking, you know, if I'm engaging with people, you know, I go to almost that thought.
Why are they here?
What are they doing this for?
Is it all about the likes and the retweets and all that sort of stuff?
So I'm a little bit conflicted.
But I think also, you know, and I, like you, I'm a TikTok maxi, and I think for me where – and I'm not convinced video needs to come into Twitter.
I think what Twitter needs to do is to look at its UI and UX fundamentally.
And this, for me, is where TikTok is so far ahead of every other social media platform, and maybe it's because they're later to the party than the rest, in that it is painfully obvious that they used for their UI and UX, they used behavioral science.
And a very, very easy example of that, for me, is that the video on TikTok is front and center.
If you want to engage with that video, whether you want to comment on it or like on it, that's tucked away in the far right-hand corner.
The video fills the screen, and it's front and center.
All the other stuff is around it, and that is very, very clever.
Because if you think about what – for me, what TikTok has created that Twitter doesn't have, that Facebook doesn't have, it's created desire.
And what I mean by that is it's created the desire of users to go there and to look things up.
And, yes, the algorithm is probably a little bit cleverer than Twitter's, so the discovery is easier to use.
But there is a desire from me as a user to every day go to TikTok and see what some of my friends are, the funny videos that they're posting up, or somebody has hooked me, linked me to something that I should watch.
I don't get that from my Twitter people, my group on Twitter.
They're not directing me to stuff.
So I just wanted to jump up and just share that as some – just some thoughts, and now I'll go away and I'll finish my pontification.
Motivelli, go for it.
Marco, thank you.
That was amazing.
I like sometimes when I get echoed, because sometimes I say things and I'm like, oh, shit, is that making sense to anyone?
So I do appreciate you feeling that.
One thing about Twitter and not getting that conversation, like, we just had it.
And that's what's cool about Spaces.
Like, we are – here it is.
Like, this is what I'm saying.
Like, the conversation on Twitter is happening on Spaces.
So what does that mean for the future of what's conversational video?
And, again, hypotheticals up in the air, open up in the air.
But I think – and I do really agree with what you just said about TikTok, about the way it makes you feel, but also the way that the UI is removed.
And, you know, the one thing we always say in UI is, like, the best UI is no UI.
Like, UI is just there.
It's a series of buttons to get you to get the thing that you need.
And that's why voice was so popular for a while.
And that's why the TikTok algorithm was working so well is because it gets you away from having to make the manual decisions to say, I like this.
I like this.
Remember the old school onboarding on something like, what was it, Foursquare or whatever, where you'd have to, like, put in, like, I like this place and this kind of food and this and this.
And you have to tell the app what it is that you want as opposed to the app learning what you want.
And that's part of that whole no UI thing.
And lastly, I wanted to say something about YouTube Shorts and, like, you know, Instagram Reels and all this other stuff.
And why they're not as good as TikTok, but also why shorts are better than regular YouTube.
And not all the time, but YouTube, there's YouTube fatigue, right?
YouTube was cool in the beginning.
Like, look, you can upload a video and you can watch the video.
And I don't know where it was, maybe around, like, 2016, 2017.
Like, YouTube fatigue happened for me personally where I'm watching a video and it's, like, a freaking minute introduction video.
And then someone's like, all right, hi, we're going to talk about this.
And then they don't talk about it.
And then there's an ad.
And then you've got to scrub the timeline and find this thing in, like, a six-minute video.
And you've got to find that one little thing that you wanted and that you searched for and that you were promised that the video told you, right?
The idea of a shorter video makes it so that you don't have to deal with that stuff.
And if you make a short video about a topic but you're not specific or you're not giving information, then that TikTok video or that short video is less valued than the one that would give you that information.
So it incentivizes creators to just get to the point.
Just get to the point already.
Like, we don't have a lot of time to hang out and wait and scrub through your giant introduction with these cool graphics and this video and this music to not learn anything.
So I think the mature levels of social media are getting us to the point faster and getting us to relevancy faster.
And, hey, bonus if it makes us feel good and it makes us want to open it up again.
I've had that experience so many times with YouTube where I look up, I don't know, let's say I buy a standing desk.
I'm just looking at my standing desk.
And the instructions aren't that great.
So I go, how to build so-and-so standing desk.
And the first two minutes of the video, it's like, welcome to my video.
It's an intro video.
And then it's like, this is a standing desk and it's made by so-and-so and they're just founded in 1915.
And it's like, dude, just, like, tell me how to fucking build it.
I don't – I appreciate you putting this video together, but just get to the point.
That's it because it's – sorry, no, I was going to say because it's running on this old SEO model, which is like I put in my keywords.
I say the right words, and it's kind of where, like, blogs have gone when you do, like, a Google search.
It's just they're repeating the same words and the same content because those results are surfacing and they're running ads on them.
And so they're not giving you the relevancy.
Their perception is relevancy, but it's not real relevancy.
I never thought of it that way with respect to the SEO model, but I have noticed that even with, like, Google – I'll Google, you know, how to perfectly cook a Wagyu steak.
And the first, like, page of the instructions is – it's like – tells me about Wagyu steak and all the amazing things about it and all the great things about the blog.
And it's like I'm scrolling down to find out how to actually make the fucking steak.
And I'm not – actually, the Wagyu steak guidelines or the Wagyu steak tutorials on Google are great.
I'm just using it as an example because I had Wagyu steak last night.
But I've had this experience time and time again when it comes to searching for information that I have to read or even watching videos where the first, like, minute or the first page is just not what I'm trying – get to the meat of it.
And then as for ads, I just use AdBlocker.
Sorry.
Marco, go for it.
Yeah, just a quick one, Noah.
So, good news for you, my friend in particular, because I know you suffer with the lack of patience.
With anything that you'll need to construct in the future – and it's here already, but it's starting to become more and more common.
So, I think by the end of this year – I won't say it will be the norm, but it will be starting to get to the norm.
You won't need to watch a YouTube video of somebody putting together your desk.
So, you'll have – you'll be directed in the instructions with an AR app, and you'll use augmented reality to build that piece of equipment for you.
So, I just wanted to share that with you in case you weren't aware.
I appreciate it, and I actually like building stuff with my hands.
The standing desk was just – because I couldn't think of an example off the top of my head.
But basically, the moral of the story is get to the point.
Otherwise, you're going to lose users to social media apps like TikTok that do get to the point.
But do you not find – do you find a difference, Motorbelly or anyone else or Marco, between shorts on YouTube versus shorts on TikTok?
Yeah.
And the way the content is presented?
Yeah.
So, the biggest is that it's not in its DNA.
So, shorts on YouTube are not in video creators' DNA.
They're used to making long, horizontal videos with big intros and logos and stuff, right?
Like, TikTok shorts is vertical video.
That's the other thing.
It's format for the phone.
And I think TikTok – or sorry, I think YouTube shorts are not as great as TikTok from just a pure content perspective because a lot of TikTok creators are just saying,
all right, I'll just upload my TikToks to YouTube shorts, and I'll live there.
So, I post the same content in one place as I do in the other.
And I think that good creators are very aware of the spaces that they're building for, and they try to make things that are native for those platforms.
So, I wouldn't want to take a video that was horizontal, chop it up, edit it down to a minute, and make it fit into something vertical.
I want to build it or start recording it natively vertical for the sole purpose of getting it to be a short or getting it to be a TikTok.
And on the other side, TikTok has the opposite problem because they – I find, for me personally, seven-second videos work the best.
I've done about a year or so going hard on TikTok just to see, like, what works for me.
And for me, seven seconds work well.
But every once in a while, because I could do 10-minute videos, I want to do, like, a longer video or a longer ride.
And they don't perform as well at all.
In fact, you know, they'll give you the metrics for all these, and you can see where the drop-off points are.
So, there's good news and bad news.
The good news is, like, not everyone wants to view that stuff.
Sorry, the bad news is not everyone wants to view that stuff.
But the good news is you can learn from all your analytics about, like, ways to present better content on those types of platforms.
I think shorts is a reaction, a knee-jerk reaction to TikTok.
Maybe it'll come into its own.
But even, like, when you're in the YouTube app, right, shorts are – they're kind of halfway down the page.
They look like vertical tiles.
They're not like TikTok, like Marco was saying.
You're not opening it up, and you're not in that content.
You're not feeling the closeness of that content.
And it's designed purposely for that feeling to resonate on TikTok.
Whereas YouTube, again, it still has that old-school model of, like, we are the big creators.
We make big, long videos.
We put four interstitial ads in it.
Everything is horizontal.
Oh, don't forget to rotate your phone.
Like, it's still the old-world of YouTube, you know?
Well, I mean, when I open YouTube Shorts, and I haven't looked at Instagram Shorts, but YouTube Shorts, they do use – I mean, I open it, and it is a horizontal, vertical video.
They do, like – but you have to get into it from the main YouTube app, like, unless they have a standalone app that I'm not using.
You don't get hit with a short first when you open YouTube.
It's a little bit more, like, portal-like.
Yep, I see what you're saying now.
Got it.
Well, cool.
Guys, this has been a fun space.
It's a shorter one, I guess, smaller panel.
We keep having people come up.
Anthony, welcome.
But we've discussed the Twitter ad implementation and what that's going to look like.
I think there's a lot left to be unveiled.
And we also discussed what Twitter needs to do to kind of diversify or make them – make this a more versatile app that appeals to a broader range of users.
And we kind of went on TikTok, YouTube – or rather, more of a TikTok tangent and why it's better than YouTube and why it's doing so much better than YouTube and Instagram.
I still really want to do a Twitter space that's focused on TikTok.
I haven't – I haven't decided when.
We almost did it one week, but we decided to go with the broader, dark side of social media.
I think I want to just focus on TikTok.
I want to get Ravi on here because he talks about the dark sides of TikTok.
I know that despite all the great things that are being said by people using TikTok, whether it's content creators or consumers, it does seem to me that governments don't like it.
And India banned it.
I know that both President Biden and former President Trump also banned – or tried to ban it.
And I know that, if I'm not mistaken, government phones, if you're government personnel, your government phone is not allowed to have TikTok on it.
So I'd be very curious to understand more about why that is.
I know that TikTok is in China and it's in the – the data is funneled directly to the CCP, from what I understand, and that the algorithm works differently outside of China than it does in China.
With respect to the latter, it is showing people stuff that is meant to improve their – you know, improve their skills at math and science and learning and kind of making them better – more productive citizens.
Whereas outside of China, it's – the algorithm promotes debaucherous activity and just kind of silliness and – I don't know.
But I just – this is just, from a surface level, my limited understanding of TikTok and why people don't like it.
I've watched a video by this YouTuber called Moon on the dark side of TikTok, where he goes into a lot of this stuff.
So if you want to check it out, you can Google it.
So you got – yeah.
So I think I'm going to close things out, guys.
I mean, I think – oh, Anthony, go for it.
I'm going to close things out probably after this because I think it's been a good space, and we got a lot covered.
And I do want to do TikTok space sometime in the near future.
But, Anthony, go for it, man.
Welcome.
I'm always late to the party these days.
What's going on?
I'm missing the ball.
I apologize.
Yeah, I guess one final closing remark I'd like to make in regards to the dark side of these types of platforms is that the people are the product, right?
And, I mean, historically, that's never been a good thing.
If we look through historical trends, when people are a product, that usually implies a lot of negative connotation.
And, you know, there's a whole depth of evil that can come with that.
Now, that's not to say that this modern format is anything comparable, but it definitely begs some questions, right?
It most certainly begs the question, and it's something that I would love to explore going forward, but focus more on individual apps as opposed to doing a broader, dark side of social media.
I think that that was a great space, but it tends to get unfocused when you can take it any way.
You can take it in any direction.
And as you've noticed, even if we have a focused topic, tangents do happen.
So, anyway, guys, this was another episode.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I just want to make one quick point, if I may.
And maybe it's even a clarification, and it touches on what just Anthony said.
So, to the point you made about the algorithm acting differently in the East as it does to the West, as I highlighted earlier, you know, TikTok have used behavioral science within their UI and UX.
I'm also aware that they've used it in relation to their algorithm.
So, to Anthony's point, the algorithm probably works the way it does in the West because of the behaviors that people extol in the West are very different than those in the East.
So, I just wanted to highlight that as a point, as opposed to people thinking, oh, they've done that.
They've done it this way on purpose.
And I don't believe that that is the case.
Por que no los dos?
You know, why not both?
But I appreciate that interpretation, Marco.
Yeah, I think it's a great debate to have because I've heard folks make that interpretation.
And I've also heard folks make the interpretation that it's specifically China.
The algorithm works differently.
And so, what Marco is saying is that the algorithm in East and West is simply reflecting the behavior of the generalized human population, the general human population.
And the other side of the argument is that if the Chinese community, for example, or someone in the Chinese community or people in the Chinese community post debaucherous stuff, the algorithm will almost shadow ban it.
It will almost not allow it, whereas in the West or rather outside of China, the algorithm encourages it.
But this is – I mean, it's not even tinfoil hat stuff.
This is stuff that I've read.
And it would be interesting to bring on folks that know more about the topic and have this discussion.
Yeah, that's all.
But Quinn, what do you think?
Or Anthony, go for it.
I was just going to say if the algorithms in the West are a reflection of the culture that we've established or, you know, that's evolved here in the Western world,
we've got to wash our hands a little bit.
We have some problems.
That's a scary thought.
It's a great point, Marco, but it is a little frightening.
Oh, it's for sure.
I think it is, like most things, it's multifactorial.
I think that you could also argue that the culture in certain Asian countries is more top-down.
So even if you say, like, it's a cultural thing with China, who decides what people do in China?
I think the CCP has their thumb on the scale there, too.
But, again, most things are probably more complicated than any, you know, person with an agenda will articulate it.
Not saying anybody has an agenda, but, like, oftentimes these things are multifactorial for sure.
Yeah, I agree with that.
And I also think about just the West and what influences our ideas and our thoughts, what we grew up watching on TV, our standards of beauty,
although there is a science to beauty as well.
I've had this debate in the past.
But generally speaking, Fight Club is a great film that covers a lot of this, or covers it in kind of a pseudo type of way.
But I do believe that, to your point, Quinn, we are influenced.
Even some countries like China might be more top-down, but we are influenced by pop culture, what we see on TV, what we hear on the radio.
And, yeah, how small is the group of people that is putting that content out?
They're a minority.
So I can make the argument that we also have a top-down influence as far as the content that we consume
and the way that our culture is formed or the way that our culture is influenced by us like you.
It's true.
It's, again, it's very possible, right?
Holly weird and all that.
But I would say it's a different thing when it's like, hey, the Grammys is cultural degradation versus, like, the CCP is telling you what you can and can't do in your free time.
So there's differences there.
But I get you.
Yeah, certainly differences.
It definitely wasn't comparing apples to oranges even.
But anyway, Doug, what's up, man?
I'm about to close things out.
I think it's been a good space, and we got some good ideas and a good exchange of thoughts going back and forth between the panel, smaller panel, which I do like sometimes.
I think smaller panel leads for a more focused conversation.
Yo, did you call on me, Noah?
No, no.
I just – I thought you had requested to come up.
I wasn't sure.
I did.
I did.
I did.
What's up?
You know how it is.
Cool.
Well, guys, thank you so much for coming on.
We'll be doing another episode of The Aquarium next week at 4 p.m. UTC.
We do these every week without question.
If you have ideas for topics that you'd be interested in discussing or you think would bring a lot of value to the community, shoot me over a DM, and I'm happy to entertain it and potentially have an episode of The Aquarium on that topic.
But, yeah, for now, remember, everything you hear on these broadcasts is meant for educational purposes only.
Nothing is financial advice.
Everyone be safe out there, and we'll see you in the next one.
Take care.
Take care.
Take care.
