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Unchained but Accountable: Merging Privacy with Compliance
Recorded: June 3, 2025 Duration: 1:08:12Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, Z-Crit Protocol and Secret Network highlighted their strategic partnership aimed at enhancing privacy solutions in the blockchain space. Key topics included the launch of innovative utilities, significant team hires, and the importance of zero-knowledge proofs in ensuring compliance without compromising user privacy.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Hey everybody, welcome to Secret Spaces.
Just waiting on one more speaker to join us here.
So give us one more minute.
We'll get this kicked on. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we're ready to get started here. Welcome to Secret Spaces to highlight the
partners that's working in the ecosystem. Today we've got a very special guest, Z-Crit Protocol.
Z-Crit, some of you may remember,
we put out an announcement highlighting our partnership
with them a couple months back.
Now we're here to circle back and talk about the work
that's been going on in the background
and highlight one of the really powerful utilities
that Z-Ccrit is working on,
which is compliant privacy.
I have also my co-host here, Adam, from our biz dev department.
I'm going to let him...
...operator, because my voice is actually doing so well today.
I got sick.
You rest up, buddy.
I know the pain is real.
I was losing my voice this morning,
and luckily feeling a little bit better now,
ready for this.
So happy to take the reins, as it were.
I've got a question.
I don't think any space ever has started on time.
I don't have one that's ever started.
Bang on the dot.
It's always five past.
Maybe if it's a bit too degenerate to kind of get things out on time,
but we're here now and I can see some people filling up.
So I'll do my best to host today.
I think I can try and fill your shoes and you biz being a host
or at least try my very hardest.
I think if we start um maybe
if we do a round of introductions uh to the secret team on the call uh that would be a good start i
think i see our turn i think we've got dima as well right beautiful yeah it's uh yeah my name
is arthur and it's demonacall from our from our official account, from a Zikret account.
So I think I will let Dima speak first and then I will jump in.
Hi, guys.
So I'm Dima from the Zikret.
I'm currently managing the whole project and making it happen to launch it as successful as possible.
And if you want to know something about me just ask i will share
all my experience and life journey but in very very general i've been in crypto for last eight
years working with governments enterprises building projects and doing both education
and entertainment for all the parties in the space.
Excellent.
And I think anyone that's met Dima in real life
always remembers him for two reasons.
One, he has a fantastic beard and he's very good looking,
but also one of the smartest guys I've had the pleasure of talking to
and has wowed some incredibly technical people, but talking on a very human level.
So good person to bring into the space today.
It's so sad, Adam, that you always say that my beer is first and only after that my intellect.
Okay, okay, man.
Well, good looking and intelligent is dangerous right um so i think
just i know some a lot of people on the spaces may be familiar with secret but maybe if you
wanted to do a quick elevator pitch on what secret is um and we can then start to sort of dive into
some of the questions we've got here today yeah but you adam you forgot about me so you remembered about the beard and i need to say
the beard is the beard is amazing you also remembered about his intellect which i also
need to say is amazing but you just forgot about me yeah well arthur is uh one of the most organized
intelligent and likable people that you could hope to meet.
Running all operations at Zcrit.
And yeah, a really nice guy.
I had the pleasure of sitting and breaking bread with him in real life.
And yeah, one of the most organized people in the world.
I think a lot of web-free projects lack in ops.
And I think that's certainly something that secret isn't
lacking and a lot of that comes from arta's prowess so yeah great team here today um so first
of all maybe we with with the the bloke the proverbial smoke blowing up both participants
uh um i was going to say something inappropriate but but you would you like to who'd like to give over
a quick brief on zucrit and what it stands for um we can talk a little bit about how it came about
and for me it was quite telling so i'd been looking at a particular product around mika
because something that some people on this call will be really familiar with um and others may
not but i've been looking at a product that nobody wanted and just
as i was about to tear up the deck and put it in the bin um somebody sent me the secret deck and
for me it kind of brought me to life a little bit having listened at countless reg tech events
having um lots of people talking about Mika,
you know, sat at round tables,
listening to people talking.
The misguidance around Mika,
Mika framework was real.
Lots of people didn't get it.
Lots of people were scared.
Lots of people were ignoring it.
And the secret desk, you know,
deck landed on my desk at that point and was kind of quite blown away
by what you're trying to achieve.
So with that scene set that I was blown away by, would're trying to achieve. So with that scene set that
I was blown away by it, would you like to give a quick elevated pitch for what Zcrit is and how it
operates? Yeah, sure. So just a little background of the whole idea. Me and my partners and I mean
like, yeah, me and my partners,
I've been in the crypto and running crypto businesses
for quite a certain time.
And by running businesses,
I mean like real regulated licensed businesses.
We always hit the same problem.
Regulations evolve, regulations change,
something changes on the market
and you need to adjust and adapt.
So being like absolutely, you know,
tired of all these changes, we decided to make,
you know, like a workshop, a brainstorming session
and figure out how we can do it for a longer period
and how can we change the whole, like,
action of these regulations trying to, you know,
like be one step ahead and et cetera.
So what we figured out is that instead of trying to fit the regulations
in one specific area or trying to catch all this ongoing train,
we need to create an environment which would be regulatory friendly.
So that's literally what secret is.
We are like, I will skip the boring and long part, but what we decided to do, but
in order to sustain and preserve blockchain and decentralization, we can't make a lot of changes in the blockchain itself because it should be free, decentralized, it should be open to use for everyone.
But at the same time, regulations want to know a lot, right?
And we as retail users, we don't want to let anyone know all the information about this. So we should create the membrane of, let's say,
the safe fence around the blockchain which we are creating.
And this fence can be regulated.
So Zikret contains of two layers,
the layer of transactions and network and the layer of safeguards preserving the
assets, users, even smart contracts in the blockchain. And in order to make it safe
regarding the privacy, we implemented the,
let's say very novel approach. We are storing the map of sources of truth.
So this means that for example, Adam,
if you, or then you become a user of Zikret,
there will be someone who will vote for you.
So for example, you would onboard through the bank
or you would onboard through the DEX
or maybe through some KVC provider.
So we will know who watches for you,
who tells us that you can be trusted
and you are verified
and you are worth of becoming a secret user.
But we won't know who you are until you do something bad.
So that's how we structured the Zikret.
And that's why it is different.
So long story short, Zikret is very private,
but at the same time, regulatory is secure and safe.
And I think that leads to a nice hook really. I mean something
that we will sort of put out in the kind of notes for today and the kind of really good opening
hook for this is that KYC without privacy is worse than Web 2. I mean if we're looking now
we're seeing you know the Coinbase breach where 70 000000 users' private data was exposed. And this was due to unencrypted storage at KYC.
There were exchanges that collect massive amounts of personal data
without clear handling, encryption, or user control.
And, you know, there's this whole thing of users being forced
to share the same sensitive information.
So ID, your selfie, you know passport utility bill and then that
information is shared repeatedly across um different exchanges for example so you know i
think that's a good hook for here um i mean with those in mind you know what would you say how
secret um helps solve those problems or um well how do you view that in the kind of what
you're trying to achieve with Zcrit?
So, yeah, actually I've mentioned that. The idea is that we as Zcrit, we absolutely don't
hold any information. And that's the difference between any of our competitors or any of our solutions until
now.
The idea is that we don't want to hold any information.
So we want to operate blockchain.
We want to operate your transactions.
We want to help you seal your wallets and transactions and process contracts, but not to store or gather or aggregate
your IDs, your personal data or anything about you.
All of that should be done by those who already are doing that.
So when you come to the bank and you're onboarding to the bank, you already provide this once.
So why should you do it twice or three times or four times, you know, or why should you
share it with us?
Instead of that, we integrate with your bank and we use it as the source of truth.
So is it, if it's regulated, it means they are already paying a lot and they are interested
in, in, in following the regressions and being in the game.
So let's use them. 100%. I mean, with that in mind, do you think crypto is really falling
or failing in its own ideas by implementing KYC without privacy safeguards? I think that's a good
talking point. And really, why do you think that in Web3 we've replicated
the worst parts of Web2 when it comes to identity management?
You know, it just went absolutely out of control. So first of all, we created the layer of
absolutely public ledgers. So I, like everyone knows and can track
all the transactions, all of the assets
across multiple wallets.
And then at the same time, when we created that
and we thought that this will change the world
and shift to a safer world,
we gave access to the centralized entities
to implement into this ecosystem.
And then these centralized entities like exchanges, like Coinbase mentioned,
they started gathering information about all the wallets related.
So what does it mean? It means that if they would leak your data,
then the bad actors, the good actors, any actors are potentially capable
of restoring all the path of your transactions, starting from the point of the first withdrawal
from Coinbase.
Interesting yeah.
And I think, you know, from my point of view, I think, you know, it's having that sort of single on-chain verifiable ID, you know, as you say, eliminates that repeat KYC whilst protecting the user data.
And I think, you know, if we're looking at, say, ZK proofs or trusted execution environments, you know, we're able to offer that compliance without exposure,
which is really important.
I mean, can we expand a little bit
on how some of the on-chain data,
such as transaction details and balances,
can be protected with selective disclosure?
If I remember it right,
it's literally what secret network is about, right?
It's all about shielding and making data private on the chain.
So the technology is kind of present.
So in our case, we're talking about shielding the transactions and either encrypting them or making them compute into the multi-party computational mode, segmenting the computational resources as well as the tasks and spreading, like encrypting the information, but spreading it between the entities.
spreading, like encrypting the information, but spreading it between the entities.
You can stop me if I'm saying something wrong or hard to follow.
But the idea is that you're right, the technology is present, and the whole concept is very
understandable.
And there are a lot of even solutions being implemented for various reasons. So in our case, we just want to make it as easy to use
and as accessible as possible
so that shielding your information would become a feature.
And interesting, I mean, so obviously,
maybe we could talk a little bit more,
because there's a lot of secret community here.
You know, how does the partnership with Secret look like from a technical standpoint?
Obviously, there's a lot of collaboration going on as far as business development and sales, etc., etc., introductions to people in the network.
But what does that look like from a technical standpoint and how Secret and Z-Crit are collaborating on those points?
Can you specify the question a little bit?
Okay, so obviously, we've got a partnership with Zcrit Protocol.
There's some work going on.
I don't know if you wanted to dive in a little bit more
about that sort of technical roadmap and what's happening.
Obviously, there's been some talk around integration recently so
maybe you could give a little bit more information on that I know from sort of the grand proposal
that was put forward etc yeah so we're still you know we're already partnering already let's say
working on the implementation of some of the secret contracts and secret
encryption methods into the secret protocol and our aim to be honest is to to blend these two
technologies in the future and and again as mentioned earlier make it as a feature you can
enable or disable and also we want to utilize the newest technology of secret network is the
homomorphic encryption for some computations.
So this would allow some very specific cases like RWA marketplaces, for example,
secondary marketplaces, as well as giving access to some given access to anonymized data for some parties.
If you want to, for example, disclose your age without disclosing your name and et cetera. Most of these can be done and will be done implementing the know-how of the secret network into the Zikret protocol.
You see, they even sound very similar.
Yeah, I mean, I must say that was one of the first things that grabbed my attention when I first saw it.
And actually met some team members all the way back in um in consensus last year
um so lots happened since then right lots of partnerships in place i've seen you know there's
a really good kind of hiring process as far as team members maybe you wanted to talk a little
bit about um some of the new hires um there's some quite high profile people in there and maybe
a little bit about some
of the sort of publicly disclosed lois that are in place with secret i think that's kind of um um
quite quite interesting let's say as far as optics i will yeah i was gonna say that's an
arctic question right that's probably a question for me but i like when it comes to the technical
stuff i i won't give you a lot this is why dma is here, but when it comes to the technical stuff, I won't give you a lot.
This is why Dima is here.
And probably when it comes to even the grunt you've mentioned or things that we're working on background besides the grunt,
that will be a place for a second Twitter spaces, because I think it will be more out of the trenches and more in developing at that point.
So we will go to it later.
Okay, so you've asked about hires.
Yeah, I mean, maybe a kind of overview, because there's some really cool projects coming on mainnet when it goes live.
You mentioned RWAs already. i'm not sure how much
you can say about that um but also i think some sort of really good hires actually as far as
uh people that are sort of publicly associated with the project now um like binu paul for example
um and rodney so maybe i think that'd be quite exciting to sort of let everyone know here about
about those personalities coming into the team oh 100 so even starting we're starting with rodney rodney prescott so he's our head of
industry relations with uh he's a veteran over 30 years of uh and he's done a lot of things across
ey pwc uh commonwealth bank and cardano foundation You can go over and over because his portfolio is huge and his experience is huge.
He's an expert in central bank integrations and TradFi web-free bridges.
Obviously known in the institutional space, banking space.
We are talking about privacy, we are talking about compliance regulations,
and some of us even about mass adoption.
So mass adoptions will not happen without institutions coming on board, as we know.
So he's a guy, a go-to guy.
You've also mentioned Bino Paul, also a new hire,
head of regulatory and market entry for Zikret.
Oh yeah, so he's a former head of digital assets for uh uk fca so for those
who know uh fca obviously means something for those who don't know it's financial
called the conduct authority he also worked for fma uh again he's a hugely experienced person
He's a hugely experienced person, especially in TradFi, but also in Web3.
So he previously was operating as a partner at, or maybe he's doing it also now, Gunner Cookie.
And he was a mentor at Outlier Ventures and Barclays Rice.
So again, institutionally very connected in Trotify plus Web3.2,
a known voice in many events that really matter in that space.
So those are the two newest hires.
We are also cooperating with Tennessee legislator, Jason Powell.
NSC legislator, Jason Powell.
And yeah, like the team, probably you can find it on our,
now I'll blow a whistle of my own,
on our data room, which is quite comprehensive.
What was the second part of the question, if you will,
if you will, because I've went on and on about people.
because I've went on and on about people.
Oh, Adam is not a co-host anymore, is he?
He's just listening to us.
Nubis, if you can give him access to talking,
that would be amazing.
Finally, we overtook the spaces.
Yeah, Adam seems to have been dropped real quick.
You know, it's not a successful secret or spaces until there's at least one.
I find that to be true in everyone.
Yeah, but we were talking about privacy earlier.
So maybe I will say a few things that I wanted to say.
Because I was even talking about it a few days ago, that privacy is not a loophole.
It's a right that we all should have.
And I, in my mind, we should stop pretending we have to choose between surveillance and chaos.
Like, because a lot of people in that, most of people think in Web3 that if you regulate crypto, you will kill privacy.
Most of people think in Web3 that if you regulate crypto, you will kill privacy.
And I think it's a very common lie that is told by a lot of people or experts sometimes who don't understand cryptography.
I am not an expert in cryptography, but I'm here in Zikret and I'm surrounded by very intelligent and very good people who have experience in that.
Very intelligent and very good people who have experience in that.
So a few points like zero knowledge proofs, they enable compliance,
but without disclosure, and you probably know about it already.
ZKIDs allows KYC without leaking identity.
Again, that's a part you already know as a secret network community.
Yeah, the threshold disclosure, obviously obviously lets regulators verify it without visibility.
Again, that privacy is a main point also for Zikret.
And yeah, with Zikret you can enforce the travel rule without traveling to centralized
surveillance, which is also amazing.
So yeah, what I think is we can build regulated systems that protect people and not expose them.
And that would be like a punchline for what I wanted to say.
And Adam is still not a talker, so I'll just let you talk newbies.
Yeah, one sec. I'm trying to... the space is really glitching out on Adam here.
I'm here.
I'm trying to get it figured out.
I can talk. Thank you for covering. This is Lisa. Lisa Loud, executive director of the Secret Network Foundation. And I thank you for going into the privacy details. I think that's amazing. I know that Zcrit is mainly based on ZK and it's, as you said,
ZK native, although I don't know if that's a thing yet, but maybe we can make it a thing.
But I'm wondering if you, when you're talking about privacy on chain, zero knowledge proofs
are powerful, powerful ways to ensure that you're
talking to the right person and you're getting the right information. But there's more to privacy
than just ZK, obviously. As Secret Network does, we have programmable smart contracts that are
encrypted. We can encrypt data, et cetera. So I'm just wondering if, how you plan to implement that side of things,
whether it's using secret networks technology or, or other,
have you thought through more of the TEE side of privacy?
That's what I'm, that's what I'm wondering. Tough question. Sorry.
It's okay.
From our side, we by design wanted to implement the TE,
and we are implementing TE on the mobile devices
for some of the features to implement.
But recently, we discovered that you
have this TE on the higher scale, which
is suitable for way more complex computation.
So we're already investigating how we can implement that
in our protocol as well as the part of the protocol.
But getting back to you,
our ultimate goal, and you can laugh it or not,
is to blend part of the secret technology
into the secret protocol to make it as a default feature.
And I'm talking about smart contracts being run on some nodes and shielding partially
or fully information about transactions, as well as enabling our users
to create the shielded wallets using the same path. Not sure if I answered that.
Yes, perfect. Thank you so much. That was a great answer.
That's perfect. Thank you so much. That was a great answer.
Do we have... Go ahead, Adam.
I'm sorry, I finally... My ex kicked me out,
so it's really glitchy for me today, but I'm back now.
Do we want to open it up to questions from everybody?
Are there questions i think we were just before it glitched out just before you joined lisa what i was
just starting to sort of get in with the team is around some of the strategic partnerships in place
um some of the hires and stuff like that i don't know. We didn't get that far into it, I don't think.
But I'm not sure if you spoke about the RWA project, Arter.
And apologies if I'm sort of going back over stuff again.
No, you're not going back over.
I think what you mean is
exclusive cooperation with block assets, right?
Yeah, and not only that,
but one of the projects that you might be able to talk about
um i'm not sure if you can give a high level on the the one that i'm not going to name unless
you're kind of out of nda etc but block assets is a good starting point onto you know the realistic
nature of secret and uh rwas and in fact you know their viewpoint is this is possibly the only
compliant way to do it right
so maybe that could segue into the actual real world like eloise that are in place as well
yeah that's uh that's that's a perfect quote here because they use that that's uh it seems
that we are the only solution for legit and uh the only solution for real RWAs to come only because of the architecture that
Dima was talking about and the ecosystem of being able to you know track and trace and
no illicit money and KYC KYB without with decentralization in heart. So without leaking the private details and so.
So, yeah, we've signed an exclusive agreement with them.
They are, I think, the biggest and the most renewed consultancy group
when it comes to tokenizing anything you would like gold forests you know
medical data or real estate or whatever have you they work with uh huge clients real estate clients
and as i've said other gold mining companies and uh and uh yeah we've signed that agreement
that partnership and we are working really closely with them.
And we will run pilots with their ongoing companies that they're consulting with,
plus bring them on chain when we will be ready on mainnet.
So that's saying something, definitely.
But I really would love to understand
what other companies are talking about, because maybe I'm glitching in my mind.
The real estate fund.
I'm not sure if you have any information on that.
Yeah, I don't think we...
I'll just not name it.
I would just say that we are finalizing the conversation with a real estate fund from the US.
Somewhere in the world. Somewhere in the world.
Somewhere in the US.
They have
2 billion worth of real estates and
funds. So again
the same
almost the same quote we've
heard that it's
they were looking but they didn't find
anything that is so comprehensive and
would let them create a legit RWS on chain.
So it is saying something.
Amazing.
Okay.
So we talk about, you talk about layer three architecture, and I don't know if you covered this before I joined.
I don't know if you covered this before I joined.
If so, just tell me now.
If so, just tell me now.
But if not, then I wonder if you could just define what you mean by layer three so that everyone is clear.
That's most likely the difference.
Yeah, that's the most, like the trickiest question of them all, to be honest.
We are absolutely lost in between the layers.
Because our main idea was to launch as soon as possible most of the features and technological, like,
novelties which we have in our inventory.
And in order to do that, we first, and again, sorry for this long answer
with the background story and et cetera,
I'm just getting old.
So the idea was to launch as soon as possible
and to launch as a layer two or layer three
on top of existing protocols,
leaving the sequencer behind.
So I'd like to even the sequencer as, you know, easiest possible way to start.
But while we were building and evolving the Zikret protocol in general, we figured out
that we became so interconnected with other projects and with other blockchains that we should be named
layer zero even because we create we're creating a framework which can be applied as a framework
and let's say append or benefit existing blockchains like in the future so So from layer two, we kind of went down to layer zero.
And now I'm not sure based on which document you are like calling us layer three, but the idea is that we are interconnected and the whole technology of privacy maintenance and also these very unique filters of sense of regulated entities
who guard the entrances to the blockchain.
It's a very unique feature of Likrit.
So this part we can apply to any blockchain which we're connecting with.
Makes sense. I don't know if I glitched out or if you stopped speaking.
I stopped speaking because I just thought that we need to come up with a new term. I mean,
like layer three just doesn't properly, you know, like describe us. We need to need to come up with a new term. I mean, like layer three just doesn't properly, you know, like describe us.
We need to be, to come up with something like umbrella layer or something like that.
Right.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And I think layer three is on the website.
So it's, I think it's how we're presenting, how we're seeing it presented to the public right now.
But layer zero makes sense to me.
But of course, it's been overloaded, as have all of these terms.
I do like your idea of umbrella layer.
But mostly it's about how we describe what we're doing, right, rather than how we're actually doing things at this point so makes sense uh thank
you for answering that i was just wondering when um if people want to set up infrastructure when
is that possible if like node runners if they want to actually get involved
So we are like making the entrance, entry point very easy to onboard, launching our nodes
as the smart contract first.
So this means that literally all the node holders and supporters who would like to join early, they can do it without any technological, you know,
limitations. And they can do it most probably in upcoming month or so because we will be launching the testnet. Like they'll be opening it more publicly. And from that moment, we invite as many participants as possible
because we will commit a very high level and very intense penetration tests.
And that's why we need notes to be present.
So more information can be found in our web page as well as our channels Arthur please help me in
this place I don't know where we share it right now and there is the newest probably in the gift
right yes it is but I just I just thought you know maybe to bring more awareness, Nubis, what we should do together is we'll do a giveaway of some nodes, liberation nodes, which are for retail users.
They're worth $500 each, so we should probably do some 5 to 10 nodes giveaway for Secret Network exclusively, only for people from Secret Network.
nodes giveaway for secret network exclusively only for people from secret network
uh and we will be able to create a i don't want to say landing page but definitely a destination
that people can get all the information about liberation notes and other notes if they want to
have a look uh what is it all about and i I think that would work, wouldn't it?
Yeah, that would be absolutely amazing.
I'm sure the community would absolutely love that.
Great way to kind of make that entry into the space.
Let's do that then.
Yeah, let's chat about how to get that going.
Beautiful.
It's already on my list, so we'll prepare some kind of, I don't know, quest competition or whatever it would be.
And we'll give away some notes to secret community.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Well, you all heard it here first.
That'll be very exciting.
Heard it here first.
Yeah, if you're here, you can keep your ears open for when that starts to happen.
It's an alpha.
Yeah, we love alpha.
Absolutely.
I think Adam got rugged again.
I just approved him as speaker but i'm really i'm really suffering today i had uh i don't know what's going on with with x but
yeah it doesn't seem to be affecting everyone else maybe well actually i i have three different uh
devices open on x and i'm seeing glitcheses across all of them. The displays are all showing space unavailable,
even though I'm listening to it.
So I think there's something going on with X,
as well as maybe your connection.
Adam is already gone.
He was racked.
He's gone again.
He was racked completely.
I think X is focusing on him specifically.
He's been targeted. If it's not careful, X is focusing on him, specifically. He's been targeted.
If it's not careful, X is going to
become X,
our X social platform.
That's true.
It's going to become the X.
Hello, Adam.
Oh, don't tempt fate. I'm not going to say anything.
Oh, no.
Testing. Okay. It's so weird. I don't know, no. Testing.
It's so weird.
I don't know what's going on.
But anyway, yeah, I think I just heard about,
I heard it here first, Node giveaway.
Yes, and now you're rugged.
I did just want to mention, because I still see them in the audience, there has been three requests to speak.
So when we're ready to open up for questions, we have a couple of them ready.
Let's do it, yeah.
Okay, awesome.
And forgive me, guys, if I missed you, go ahead and request to speak again.
But I know i saw node father
um braden and aj crypto so first one to re-request to speak i'll get you up here on stage
all right looks like aj crypt is coming up for a question
oh is coming up for a question. Dima, can you...
If I don't get rugged.
Yeah, while we're waiting.
AJ, if you get on, just break in.
All right, I just approved.
AJ got removed for some reason, but go ahead and re-request AJ.
Notefather, I have you up on stage now.
Howdy, howdy.
Sorry, did you say someone else was going to go before me, or was that an invite?
They were, but they got rugged.
they got rugged.
Sure, sure.
Sure, sure.
Rugged again.
Rugged again.
All right.
All right.
So there was some sort of statement made on this call.
I forgot the exact quote,
but it was something about bringing secret-like tech,
something like that.
So my question on that is just like,
is ZEGRE interested in using TEs directly?
That's my question.
Yes.
We have two use cases, and they are separated to two different node holders.
So I'm not sure how well you knowledged
about the Zikret node holder vertical,
so I will just present it shortly.
We have different-
Good, I am not.
You're not.
Okay, great.
So I will tell you how it's structured.
So what we did, we separated functionalities,
roles as well as responsibilities
in between four different types of nodes.
We did that intentionally to,
A, not give too much power to any other stakeholder,
and B, we actually allowing different users
or parties based on their involvement and based on their technical,
technological readiness level or knowledge to still become the node holder from the Zikret.
So there are business level nodes which are made in order to provide some kind of some some services for example to add
additional safety additional security to compute smart contracts in the secure encrypted way
to provide information in the trusted way and responsible way.
So these are business notes.
And in those, we must use something like TE
because otherwise we can expose data to someone which we don't want
or don't need to expose. So that's why we use encryption and TE in
complex, I don't know how to say it, as a solution. And the second thing, we do a smaller
encryption tasks which are also implementing TE but for the retail users. And these retail users,
for the retail users. And these retail users, so we act as the, just a second I forgot the word in English, as the intermediaries or as service providers for the
small retail requests, for example, to shield the transaction or to validate the swap or to validate the balance of the wallet. So something which can
be computed and calculated very easily on the mobile device and signed by the mobile TE chip.
So I'm not sure if I answered your question, but yes, we are interested in using TE.
And one solution is made by us.
Another solution, most probably, we will implement made by Secret.
Cool.
Yeah, I mean, that pretty much answers my question.
I haven't really done a deep dive in the specific use cases you presented,
but have you evaluated TEs on a deep enough level to form an opinion
related to if you want to use TDX or SGX?
Very honestly, I won't answer your question.
A very specific one.
For that, we have an expert of encryption in the team.
So most of all, we need to make another session
and talk about the contentious stuff.
No problem.
Cool.
Awesome.
Good question.
Oh, Dave, do you have another question?
There was a comment I was going to make.
I am a fan of the layer three positioning for language.
Personally, I'm a fan of it versus coming up with a new term,
but I'm not a marketing guy.
Maybe a new term would be great.
I really like to hear your opinion and comment.
Can you, for example, specify why, for example,
using layer three is better than I know.
From my perspective, I feel like people
are starting to mix up layer two, layer three.
I mean, both of them are just the additional layers
of development on top of the protocols.
So currently it feels like people are just misusing them a little bit.
So that's my opinion.
Yeah.
So I'm interested.
No, no, that's fair.
That's fair. But I guess I've just had a lot of experience watching new terms,
like the education around new terms.
Lisa has way more experience actually trying it than I do.
I've just kind of watched, but the education around new terms is pretty high.
I would say even with the confusion around layer three, the familiarity of like numbering and layer,
The familiarity of, like, numbering and layer, like, you know, layer one, layer two, that familiarity is, like, probably a lot more welcoming than trying to focus on the educational effort.
That would be, like, a higher bar, in my opinion, when it comes to coming up with a new term.
That would be a higher bar in my opinion when it comes to coming up with a new term.
And then also if you come up with a new term and someone else starts using it, you may
run into the same situation you just said, which is people start using it wrong.
If you come up with a new term and it gets popular, you just might find yourself at the
same spot anyway.
I kind of agree and following um
like you know on your opinion i agree that inventing and in presenting the new term is
always hard i'm just saying that currently you know like the market became so uh i don't know
five to mature that we have already too many terms but yeah yeah it's not bad it's not bad
it means that the market is drawn you don't always
get to pick the best term well i mean you can if you would like but you don't always get to pick
the the best terms and have uh broad audiences uh feel like it's relatable um or like like in their head, like form frame of references.
I just like with a new term,
I just think the education cost is way higher than using a term that has some confusion.
You know, if it has more familiarity than confusion,
that's what I would lean towards.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's an excellent point.
Yeah, so you get some context clues from layer three
that you wouldn't get from something completely new.
And I think that's a fair point.
It's actually a really good point.
No, Father.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, great questions and great commentary.
I do have DJ Joey up on stage.
Go ahead and open your mic. I know you've been waiting patiently.
Oh, no. Thank you, guys, for having me up. First off, this is my very first basis with you guys, Secret Network in specific.
I want to say I've been following you guys since I entered the Cosmos ecosystem probably about two and a half years ago.
Actually, I'm going on three. And you guys have always been steadfast.
You've always have held on to your mission statement.
You have sought out, adopted, fostered, and continued to build projects that have your
same linear vision.
I think I remember even whenever my wallet got hacked about two years ago.
I've had several wallets hacked, but I have a lot.
But I really got to flesh you guys out.
I think when you guys first rolled out and became, as one would say, one of the big boys in the ecosystem, I was just getting into it and your your white paper was a bear but it was
thought out and thorough and it it was unique in a way that it maintained its sense
of core which is privacy and allowed other things to come into it um i guess my question is more
for you guys i actually i saw you guys
in this space and i scrambled to get my headphones like a nerd um my question is this while you guys
sit within you know some of the other big boys that are going on within our ecosystem and i'm
pretty sure you see what's going on with you know cosmos hub and osmosis and having BTC and Solana run through our space,
which is profound for me.
I talk to people in other spaces and I'm used to paying pennies,
less than pennies for transactional fees, just something as simple as that.
And having these other people come into our system is really cool.
This is kind of my question um because
i you know i come to your i go to shade or i go to something else and i see you guys building
are you guys looking to have your own standalone ecosystem which exists completely i guess um i wouldn't say isolated but you are your own entity free of
anything else that might be going on i know that you know when i first got into it osmosis was the
throughput in and out you know i know you guys have bridging and integration and stuff like that
and i'm i don't mind waiting for the security and privacy just to make sure that tokens get
through. Is that something you're continuing to build? Or do you find yourself kind of at this
stage in your roadmap, relaxing a little bit, and maybe trying to integrate with others around?
It's more of just a curious question. Yeah secret i can take that um so i've been with
secret just over two years and um i think the first six months the mission was really to build
our own ecosystem standalone ecosystem but given the the market evolution, the difficulty of cosmos adoption, etc., and the fact that there was a big
gaping hole in the market for trusted execution environments and on-chain encryption. We pivoted
around six months in, so that was like in 2023, I think. We pivoted to really trying to be a layer essentially act as a layer although we're still
a layer one secret is still a layer one in cosmos you're right we we built all of these ways that
people in other ecosystems can use privacy use on-chain encryption of data and smart contracts, encrypted smart contracts.
So we really pivoted around a year and a half ago to not really focusing on trying to build
yet another standalone ecosystem, but to being that, acting as a layer for everyone else.
And then at the end of last year, we did another sort of a pivot in the sense that our expertise with TEEs made us really well positioned to build for confidential AI.
So the confidential AI infrastructure has been the main focus of labs for the past six months, at least.
of labs for the past six months, at least.
So secret VM and secret confidential AI
has been really the focus.
And that means that we're building
confidential infrastructure that can be used
by any AI project, whether it's Web 2 or Web 3.
I'm getting a little bit of an echo.
I hope I'm coming through okay.
No, no, no.
The follow-up, I guess, to that, actually, I'm sitting here smiling and nodding
as you're saying that. So for the foreseeable future, projects that you'll be integrating
and working with and will hopefully eventually arrive on your platform and your ecosystem
will be completely outside of anything that we would see within the Cosmos ecosystem
or anyone that's, you know, maybe Celestia is doing or anything like that.
It would be you're seeking these projects out for your specialized, basically, privacy tenet, I guess you would say.
Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Thank you for answering me. Excellent. Thank you.
Yeah, partnerships has become a big focus. Thank you for answering me. Excellent. Thank you. they're building is so perfect because it's, again, it's multi-chain, it's chain agnostic.
It allows us to, or they will connect with a lot of different chains and they're providing this
compliance layer for all the chains. I really don't think the future is about building our
little silos. I think the future is about bringing the silos together, but also being compatible with the web 2 world and the industry
world so that we don't have this echo chamber of blockchain enthusiasts who keep talking about
adoption but nothing ever happens um i think that's the brilliance of z-crit is that it it
focuses on what's needed to cross that chasm thank you for for the good words. And also I can just from my side,
after a couple of calls and talks to the secret tech team,
I can tell you that, yeah, a lot is coming.
I'm very excited for the development we are doing.
So, yeah, sounds great.
Thanks for the question, DJ.
Yeah, that was an awesome question.
I don't see the requests up, but Brayden, if you still had a question, go ahead and
put your hand up and AJ Crypt.
Go ahead and request again if you wanted to come up on stage.
Otherwise, we might start wrapping it up.
We've been going for an hour now, so might start winding down either way.
But want to give everyone their chance at the question if they still have it.
While we're waiting, maybe Dima, could you just give us a little bit of, you know,
what drew you to this industry and what you're excited about for ZCrit?
Yeah, I was kind of a little bit mentioned earlier.
So, hello.
Oh, Braden's joined us on stage real quick.
Dima, do you wanna answer that real quick
and then Braden go ahead and launch your question.
It's okay if he already answered it.
Sorry, I missed that.
Let's go ahead to the question.
Okay.
All right.
I was wondering if there's any projects
that verify ZK proofs in secret smart contracts?
The question is-
Are there any projects-
Using ZK or using TEE to verify a ZK?
Is that the question?
Well, yeah, TEE, but specifically in a secret smart contract verifying ZK proofs.
Good question.
Are there any projects that are currently combining TEEs and ZK proofs in our ecosystem?
There was one, I'm trying to think of the name of it.
They had like a ZKT NLS setup.
I'm drawing a blank on the name though. I know Satoshi's Palace used them almost as
an oracle. Yeah, Brayden, are you asking for current projects or has anyone ever done it
before? Well, right now I am getting KYC information and there's leaks that could happen in a TEE so I hash it and put it on chain
but if I did a ZK proof of you know that ID information that very sensitive information
it could be mathematically secure. Oh so you're looking for a solution? Yes of course.
So you're looking for a solution?
Yes, of course.
Got it. Okay. It's definitely doable. We've done some research on, written some papers and things about how TEs and ZK can be combined.
I don't think that anyone has implemented the solution that you're looking for right now, but that's not to say that we couldn't find people to implement it for you.
If that's something that you need in your project.
Yeah, that would be really cool.
Yeah, Brayden, let's get a conversation going with some DevRel and or labs.
See if we can't get something set up.
What's the use case here?
I mean, ZK is great.
I love TEs.
I'm not saying there's no use case, but what's the use case?
Personal identifiable information.
Protecting the PII.
Totally. Totally.
Yeah, and again, I'm not arguing against it.
Just what's the benefit of combining them for PII?
Couldn't either of them independently kind of hand?
Or like, how are you thinking of it?
Well, there has been extractions of the te private keys so it can't like that's true it's tees are more like a uh
up a fuchsia solution to privacy not a mathematical solution to privacy so it
i mean both of them need to be combined in my opinion. Cool. Yeah. The answer to my question. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Just for a maximum privacy,
I think is what he's looking for. Increasing the privacy of using TE is for convenience,
but then ZK to secure, make sure it's secure. Is that something that Zecret is planning to build?
Arturo Dima?
That's definitely a Dima question.
The answer is yes.
And we are doing that already.
I mean, we have a solution.
We are testing it currently in our testing environment.
But yes, yes, of course.
I mean, in my opinion, sooner or later, it's just unavoidable.
We need to develop something like that.
Awesome.
Let's get it in your roadmap.
All right, cool.
Any other questions?
I don't see any more requests.
There was one more hand up, but they haven't requested again.
So maybe give a couple more seconds in case.
If not, then we could probably wind on down here.
That was probably Adam requesting to be a speaker.
That's it.
Poor Adam got
rugged so many times.
Adam, do you want to say goodbye?
Or are you going to...
Are you worried you're going to get rugged by saying goodbye?
I think he's trying to talk.
This is not your day.
All right, then.
Thanks so much for hosting a new biz.
Best laid plans.
But no, it's a really, really informative space.
Thank you, Adam. slave plans but no it's a really um a really really informative spaces thank you adam i i think he got rugged again he was starting to say something very beautiful it was beautiful it was a good sentence it was we can imagine it
but no thank you so much for coming on our spaces.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I have to agree with him.
It was a very informative session, great spaces, and definitely appreciate all the speakers being here, all of the people in the audience, the great questions.
I will just ask that everyone in the audience and everyone that listens to the recording of this, go ahead and follow the speakers that are up here on stage.
Also, just a quick question to Zikrit for those who are listening, either to the recording or live.
How can they stay up to date on Zikrit?
What's the best place to follow you and join the community?
Yeah, definitely our
ex, but I would say
even more if you are into
less
marketing, more talk, that would be our
LinkedIn.
We have
Telegram community, but
we don't run a chat there.
It's only announcements.
So I would say if you want to reach us, you can always DM me.
Add on LinkedIn.
And whatever questions you have, you can drop them.
To me personally, I will find the answer even if it's technical.
And I'm definitely not a technical person. So I will find the answer even even if it's technical and i definitely not a
technical person so i will find the answer and bring it to you uh and i think no i don't i know
that we'll now cooperate a bit more also on um on those social media with secret just to bring you
media with secret just to bring you closer to what we do and how we'll cooperate each other.
So yeah, just, you know, follow the X, follow the LinkedIn and you'll get all the answers.
Amazing. Amazing. All right. Well, thanks everyone for joining us and have a great week.
We'll see you next time.
Thanks, everyone.
Bye-bye.
