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UNDER EXPOSED: Animal Spirits Return
Recorded: July 15, 2025 Duration: 1:09:18Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic episode of Underexposed, the hosts explore the resurgence of the crypto market, highlighted by Bitcoin's impressive rise past $110K and the successful ICO of Pump, which raised between $500 and $600 million in just 12 minutes. With significant inflows into Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs, the discussion underscores a growing trend of institutional interest and potential regulatory developments in Washington.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. GM, everyone.
Thank you for joining us here this morning, this afternoon, wherever you're at.
We're going to start the show here in just a minute.
Give a few shout outs while we wait.
Alright, good crew.
I think we've got a lot of our speakers up on stage.
Whenever you're ready, let's kick it. so Hello everyone and welcome to episode 34 of Underexposed, our weekly macro show, breaking down all of the biggest topics in crypto and broader web three. Today is Tuesday, July 15th. And folks, it has been a hell of a week in the
crypto streets. Bitcoin finally breaking out past 110K, soaring into the 120s. Kobe, he's saying
we're finally on the easy road. ETH, several other tokens seem to be coming along for the ride in our
question today. Are animal spirits back in the
crypto market we're gonna break it all down on today's show i'm your host tyler d i got my co-host
in the house first up d's art collector coin stacker and trader and a lot more d's gm how
you doing doing great man what a week i cannot complain at all just glad to be here yeah these
are the weeks where it's fun to come on and do the show, for sure.
So I'm excited to chop it up with you guys. Folks, we've got Jeebs on with us here as well.
Early stage crypto VC dabbles across internet capital markets, wears a lot of hats.
Jeebs, GM, how are you doing?
Yeah, I got a fresh hat on today. The old Marfa hat.
Man, like you guys said, this is why we play the game.
Weeks like this,
incredible innovation,
internet capital markets.
I mean, it's all coming to a head. I'm excited
to talk about it with you guys.
Yeah, I buried that lead
and what a week for internet capital markets.
One of the biggest ICOs in crypto history.
So we'll have to talk about that
and more. Folks, Peter James may
be joining us live from the car. We'll see if he's able to join us, but we may run it without him
today. A couple of housekeeping items. We are live on Kik. Make sure to follow our channel. We'll be
streaming on Kik going forward every week for all of our content. And as always, before we get
started, a quick disclosure, the opinions expressed on this
podcast are those of the speakers and do not reflect the views or opinions of any organizations
they are associated with. We are here to share insights, provoke thought, and maybe even stir
some debate. But this is not, I repeat, not financial advice. While we talk about markets,
investments, and trends, remember, your financial decisions should be made with the help of your own
research or with advice from a licensed professional.
All right, well, let's get into it.
I'm going to fire up the screen share for those who are in the stream.
And we do have quite a bit to get into.
So for starters, just looking at the price for Bitcoin, right under $117K, up 8% on the week, down notably from the run to, what, 123K, 122?
Just some mind-blowing numbers just a couple days ago.
We have E hanging out at 3,050, outperforming up 19% on the week.
And then someone overlooked, at least on crypto Twitter,
XRP is up 27% on the week, Actually, the biggest mover from the top crypto majors.
Rounding this out, the other thing is kind of happening from a macro perspective.
So it is Crypto Week in Washington, where the U.S. House of Representatives is expected to vote on three key crypto bills.
crypto bills. We've got the ETH treasury co's piling in to ETH as Bitminer and Sharpley continue
to go kind of battle their way to the top for who's going to hold the most ETH. We've got
Coinbase, perhaps one of the bigger winners of Crypto Week in DC. Their stock is hitting an
all-time high. Regulators coming to the table, the latest, issuing guidance for banks to custody crypto
and telling them the risks that they need to understand and manage to do that.
And then Standard Chartered coming out and saying, hey, we're going to be the first.
They're already offering spot Bitcoin and ETH custody services to their institutional customers.
From a market perspective, the ETFs, folks, are one of the biggest stories.
Perhaps driving the pump we've been seeing,
Bitcoin ETFs posted two back-to-back billion-dollar inflow days last week,
and the Ethereum ETFs have been on an absolute heater as well,
over $1 billion in net inflows over the last
four sessions.
So some pretty remarkable movement there.
From macro side this morning, we had CPI come in, I think pretty much in line with expectations.
Inflation is ticking up a bit, but nothing crazy.
Rate cut odds hanging out at 60% chance of one cut in September and still just a 7%
chance of no cuts by the end of the year. So some rate cuts are coming, it certainly
seems. We'll get into Pump and some of the other stories later on in the show, but Jesus,
maybe I'll toss it to you to start. A lot of big headlines this week, but for starters, Bitcoin breaking $120K.
Is it time to raise our targets?
Have you started thinking about numbers for the rest of this year?
How are you feeling about all this?
I got dinner with someone who I love and respect a lot.
They're pretty OG in the space.
And they were like, I'm not selling till 300, 400K.
So they're giga bullish.
You know, I sent over the rainbow chart this morning.
We took a look at it just to see kind of where things are at with the rainbow chart,
how things look compared to past cycles.
And, you know, it's saying, you know, 178K is FUD.
We keep buying. So the rainbow chart is clearly, you know, 178k is fun. We keep buying.
So the rainbow chart is clearly,
you know, continually bullish.
I think when you look at the rainbow chart
versus last cycles,
we're still not in any bit of a,
you know, crazy range here.
It's been taking its sweet old time getting there.
So we haven't really gone into any of the euphoric sections of,
you know, if you look at the,
think of RoyGBiv,
right, the Roy section here, we're not even up there yet. So for me right now, I'm waiting until
we really get closer toward euphoria. But, you know, it seems like there's a lot of selling and
a lot of buying. Selling from a number of sources such as OGs, miners, etc.
And then lots and lots of buying from treasury companies.
Treasury companies are what seems to be like the infinite bid right now.
It's kind of crazy.
I think higher, but I don't know where I start to clip some off here.
Clipping off is not even in my
vocabulary at this point in the cycle or the market. You showed the rainbow chart. I'm going
to pull up the M2 chart. And I think we've showed this before. So we were lagging it quite a bit,
right? So the M2, the global money supply showed that Bitcoin would run up to 120, 125.
The global money supply showed that Bitcoin would run up to 120, 125.
It didn't really happen.
It was lagging.
And then we finally got the move.
And it was basically line for line, mashing the M2 chart, which is pretty wild.
And then notably, after M2 pumps, it does sharply dip back down briefly before continuing to grind up.
And guess what happened?
We hit 1222 and now we dropped
six percent and again bitcoin is very closely matching this which is is this the chart tyler
is this the is this the tea leaves right here like at what point can you say uh there's a trend here
because when i look at this i don't know man man. It looks like a trend. It looks like a pretty clear trend to me.
I'm not a quant.
I'm not a heavy TA guy.
But when I see this, these things look like they match pretty closely to me.
Yeah.
And I think if you had to look at one chart and one chart only,
this is probably the one that I would continue to look at.
The one I like to look at for sure.
Well, it tells the story that we want to manifest.
I like the one that goes up.
Exactly.
Yeah.
This one looks good, Tyler.
The M2 chart looks good.
But that's what we're in search for, right?
We're in search for some type of correlation here.
We want to find the right things to correlate our bags going up.
Well, you brought up a key question.
It's like, what is driving the move?
And I think it's always hard on a week-to-week basis to be able to pinpoint a specific reason.
Right.
And I was actually catching up with some of some of the neighbors came over last night
and we were chit-chatting and the guy, he was in professional services, very smart guy
who just casually follows crypto.
So he asked, you know, saw Bitcoin hit all time high, what's driving the move?
And I feel like my anecdotal read is I'm still kind of aligned to the theory that there was
a lot of pressure from the whales, the OG ancient whales.
There's data to back that up.
And effectively, the inflow pressure from the treasury codes,
from the ETFs, finally just overpowered the cell pressure from the whales.
And it just kind of let loose.
And the dam broke effectively in the past week or so van spencer had a had a tweet on this
one i think yesterday uh he said no need to get into specifics but there's a well-known ancient
whale that was selling 10 to 11 figs of bitcoin at 110 i thought it would take a lot longer to
chew through it that That's chewed
through. 250k, that's his call.
That's the next stop for him.
So he's 250.
I feel like I'm seeing a lot more 250.
150k was
the number.
I think maybe in 2024,
perhaps even earlier
2025, and now I feel like that's
folks' base case.
I'm seeing bull targets.
If Bitcoin goes to 250,
do we even get a new salon all-time high?
Or are we hugged?
That would be painful.
Bitcoin to double from here
and no salon all-time high.
I always think every week I look at the
sole Bitcoin and sole ETH charts
and they're not good.
They haven't been good for probably since the start of May.
The other question is, do you think ETH goes to all-time highs?
Bitcoin now is way past all-time highs.
ETH just isn't. ETH's at 3K just hanging out.
Look at ETH BTC, Jeeves. It's coiling.
Is it coiling? It's 0.026. Lookeeves. It's coiling. It is coiling. Is it coiling?
It's 0.026.
Look at that.
It's not bad.
It was 0.018 at the end of April.
So it's coiling.
It's a good segue into what I think is...
There's a lot of good stuff going on for ETH.
Yeah.
See, Bitcoin has these sort of main characters slash these spokespeople for it, right? You have the sailors of the world, notografts of backlash just for sort of who he is.
You know, is he a wartime leader?
Is he the right person?
Then there was sort of some changes at the foundation level.
And then now I think it finally looks like ETH has its spokesperson.
And his name is Tom Lee, not the drummer.
And he's out there pushing ETH,, peddling Eve, creating his own product.
We're starting to see Lubin obviously is trying to become a main character in this as well
with SBET.
So I think between Lubin and Tom Lee, like Tom Lee's, he's a big name.
You know, he's on CNBC all the time.
He, uh, he's loved by many, has been the permable.
And I think like with e finally having a
spokesperson that's i think that's kind of bullish it's interesting to me that you're
you're appointing tom lee as the spokesman and i and i see where you're coming from and maybe
on a for a television audience it's your gateway to normies exactly he is he's wearing that crown
he is yeah he's the normie spokesperson.
That's no,
I can get on board with that.
Like who else is there?
Well,
Joe Lubin would be the other one,
right?
And I think maybe he's more of the crypto native now.
Yeah.
CT lead for the conversation.
I've noticed certainly a big shift in him.
He's more vocal.
Now he's kind of coming out with this little shtick.
He was congratulating the other ETH treasury co's on their buys yesterday.
As a self-appointed representative of the League of Extraordinary ETH Accumulator
gentlemen, I tip my hat to these other companies.
But they've come out aggressively.
Sharpling Gaming, his ETH acquisition vehicle,
has come out with some pretty serious marketing materials as of late.
And it's fun.
It's brought more energy to it.
And you called out the problem.
But Vitalik is a brilliant genius,
but he was not perhaps the best spokesman for ETH, the asset.
The ETH Foundation didn't seem to be taking that too seriously.
The marketing standpoint of driving ETH as an asset, or even really getting behind a lot of
its apps and protocols, I think you could argue it lagged Solana on that front pretty substantially.
And then you had like the Bankless crew, which rubbed some folks the wrong way.
Some people didn't really like their messaging, right?
So who, who was the spokesman?
And it was very hard to answer that question.
Well, now you have,
and I feel like the messaging is starting to become a little bit more tight
as well.
It's infrastructure,
infrastructure picks and shovels on stable coins,
the world computer, and it's starting to paint a narrative that's a little bit easier to get behind.
And now it's also narrative follows price, right?
So the price is starting to rebound.
The story gets a little easier to tell.
And we're not even getting into what these treasury codes are doing.
But Deez, I'll toss it to you.
How are you feeling about ETH overall?
And where do you think it goes,
let's say the second half of 2025?
I feel cautiously optimistic.
I know we've talked about it
for the last few episodes
about maybe rebalancing.
Probably should have started rebalancing
when we started talking about
it but i'm still underweight on liquid eth but i i think it is uh a pretty decent bet and it's one
of the things where i could tell like you know normie friends um quite easily that like they
could buy this and fidelity and you could pitch them the dream of maybe even outpacing bitcoin
um i think at these levels, which is interesting
because a lot of people, at least like iBit is cheap,
even though Bitcoin is expensive.
But I think with like Ethereum,
it does have a little bit more upside,
especially with all of the just like good regulation tailwinds
we have and stuff happening.
So I'm very cautiously optimistic on ETH.
Sadly, I have my bet with ETH-denominated JPEGs.
But I think if you look at the ETH Bitcoin chart,
it doesn't feel like it's going lower than it went in April.
That feels like it has to be the bottom.
And I know we've said that a couple times probably in the last three years.
But just from a purely technical perspective,
it's very hard to imagine it going less than it was in April.
I tweeted a chart with the ticker, Izzy.
But it has a very clear, I don't know, to me, technical strength.
I mean, maybe strength isn't the right word, but
technical upside
we'll go with.
I'm very cautiously optimistic on ETH.
I like it.
I've said this a couple weeks ago, but I like it more
now than I have in a while.
I feel like the key difference this time around
is the ETH Bitcoin ratio
dropped below .02.
There was some chatter like oh it has
to rebound this has to be the bottom but we couldn't really point to a reason why other than
like it's just got to catch up at some point and now i think we have the reason right and it's
primarily twofold it's big inflows into these etfs again a billion dollars in the last four sessions
at basically the highest levels
that we've seen. And then these treasury codes are just absolutely piling in. These aren't even
the latest numbers, but Sharpling Gaming, Joe Lubin's vehicle now holds 300,000, almost a
billion. They basically accumulated that largely in the last month. Now you've got Bitminer Tom
Lee's company on the same list. They have half a billion. We have 500 million.
BitDigital has their hat in the ring with 300 million.
These companies didn't exist or own ETH two months ago.
That's 2 billion in buy pressure right there,
and they're not showing signs of slowing down.
So I'm getting – so you said costly optimistic.
I might be aggressively optimistic. I'm getting, so you said costly optimistic. I might be aggressively optimistic.
I'm ready to rebalance your portfolio.
It's really interesting.
Like a heavy ETH position or?
I've been adding Sharpling stock as my primary ETH bet
fairly aggressively over the last couple of weeks.
I see a couple of people on twitter have made uh s bet they're like their brand now this is like a new thing like um you know when a new
l2 ecosystem popped up you have a group of people making content for that l2 now i feel like the
evolution of that is like well all the l2s already have a guy like there's already a bread
guy on maybe if there's already people doing some on hyper like well now it's like you can be
the treasury company guy um and i'm seeing those pop up on twitter i think the only one i actually
like can name though is d johnson because he actually is pretty consistent with it but like
i started following a couple other people who are just every day like the ticker is as that like yeah
i've seen that trend as well and of course it's a little bit easier when the chart
you know looks like this is basically a almost 3x off the local bottom now at 25 bucks it's
trading at 1.9 billion it's trading at about 2x and a half so
folks need to be aware of that if they're thinking about buying it that means it's trading at uh
double their assets did this just pop to 27.75 wow every time you check it's up another four dollars
you're like wow this is a really good tech the the ticker and then in the other realm we have
like robert Leshner
CTOing a publicly traded company,
and then they're trying to issue more shares
to fuck him over.
That's another fun thing going on in the timeline
if you paid any attention to that.
We have to talk about that.
I found this potential trade on Friday
because of one of these people who made it their personality.
So I followed this gentleman named Sharplink Whale, who was tweeting about YHC, the stock.
And basically, he had figured out that Leshner had had these ties to this company.
Lesnar had had these ties to this company.
So basically yesterday morning,
and Lesnar had confirmed on Twitter that he had some interest in this,
and then he dropped this SEC filing yesterday morning.
He owns 57% of this company called Liquor House.
It's basically like a penny stock micro cap company
who was trading around $3 million in market cap.
Supposedly had more cash on hand than the price of the stock,
which I was able to verify.
Do you think that's true?
He bought control and stake.
His plan is to replace the board and explore new strategies.
We think basically saying he's going to build a crypto treasury.
This has been important because people, we've seen the explosive price action,
but that happens after the announcement.
So everyone's trying to find the next play before the announcement,
right?
So like,
that's why there's hype around this.
Is this the next one?
Is this the next one?
One thing to add here,
Tyler,
just this point is I think usually it's mutually agreed and beneficial between both parties.
Hey, we're going to take this company and bring it public and add a treasury.
Whereas last year is effectively doing a hostile takeover.
It is.
Can you pull up the LQR chart on TradingView real quick
and just look at what happened in March of this year?
I don't know what happened, but it went from $95 to sub $10 in two candles.
It's insane.
It is interesting to see this happen.
I don't know how verified the photo is of Leschner in front of...
There's all sorts of rumors, but one was that Leschner went went there they didn't let him in and then now they're issuing additional shares so
i don't know how this all pans out it's clear that like there's some legal stuff that needs
to happen here yeah lesher's been kind of tweeting about this but yeah so this is the list. So he made his announcement and then it looked like
the owners were going to try to
sell more.
And he's saying, oh, I disagree with that. And he is now
effectively the owner of the company.
So what we've kind of stumbled
into is a potential hostile
takeover of Liquor House
by Robert Lesher to
turn it into a crypto acquisition vehicle.
Have you bought any YHC, Tyler? I did. did yes i have so i i bought some more hc
i bought some on friday uh at two dollars and then i bought more yesterday around 370
it went to 460 yesterday right at the close it dumped this morning back to three now it's back over four
um so i mean it's been grinding up here that this morning it looks like as well so folks are maybe
getting more optimistic or i've also seen folks like ledger kobe's old uh podcast partner saying
he's getting behind this so it feels like this is kind of like the the boys
the trenches are rallying behind this hostile takeover attempt of liquor house which is a
microcapturing it's funny it's funny that like lusher's like i'm gonna go do this thing and then
he he's just getting blocked by this family who's like we don't want our liquor company
maybe they do maybe they don't but But I think it's clear, like,
they see this opportunity to just issue more shares
and get more money.
Yeah, it's a long story.
The pump of all the crypto bros buying it.
I looked into the stock.
I had ChatGPT do some deep research for me on Friday.
It looks like the owners had done a fair amount
of shady stuff with issuing shares.
So it's a strange business.
Like in the past they've done that?
Yeah, in the past.
Sounds like they still like that game.
They do, but they may not be able to play it anymore
because they're not the controllers of the company.
So I'm sure we'll be talking more about Liquor House on this show.
Folks, I think we've got Peter Jennings on with us,
perhaps live from the car.
Peter, we've kind of gone around the horn,
but I wanted to give you a chance to weigh in too.
Bitcoin's at 120K, 117 live, but hit that threshold.
ETH has been on a tear.
How are you feeling?
Are you bulled up?
Are you feeling the animal spirits back in the market?
What's your read here, mid-July? Yeah, hopefully you guys can hear me.
I'll be on my computer here in like five minutes or so, five, ten minutes.
But yeah, it's been a really fun time in the markets.
The animal spirits are there. Just check the funding rates for going lever long.
So it's it's crazy.
Certainly kind of feels like a lot of the things
we've talked about coming into fruition,
especially with the BBB,
that it just seems like fiscal dominance
is going to be the play.
And you want to own things
that are going to appreciate nominally.
And crypto is positioned as well as ever.
And I think Bitcoin will continue to converge on gold.
And we're just on that that
that train and you build up that m2 money supply that's getting that that to me makes sense that
that should track with what digital gold is and i think that's uh probably the biggest signal we
have is just m2 money supply going up and bitcoin price going up i think so as well i shared this
this video from Portnoy.
Love him or hate him. There's reasons to
not like Portnoy for some of the things he's done in crypto
or whatever, but putting those aside.
He says, I talk to my finance guy every day
about stocks. We should have just
shut up and bought Bitcoin instead.
And that's a pretty powerful statement
and I've found myself
kind of going down the same line of thought
as I've been thinking about this financial planning for the family,
making moves.
And do you put money in an index fund?
I feel like the stronger Bitcoin performs,
it's this reflexive feedback loop where you're like,
well, shit, I should just buy Bitcoin instead.
And I wonder if more and more folks are going to come to this realization.
And is that another driving force in the grind up for Bitcoin from here on that gold arc?
Curious if anyone else has reactions or thoughts on that, or if you've sat down and had that
conscious thought, like, why should I buy this over over bitcoin it's hard to pick individual stocks right and bitcoin's
not performing the indices yeah i think in general you want to own the s p 500 that's probably the
best way to kind of track um you know how the us is doing and keep your purchasing power from a
nominal perspective you want to hold some of that but then depending on how far out of the risk curve you want to get
i mean clearly um to me i mean i've heard this show and i'm probably listening like
bitcoin makes a ton of sense especially if you have the view that it's gonna
equal and then at some point overtake the market cap of gold so So, it has a higher market cap than gold.
It's probably going to outperform the S&P 500
would be my view.
So, if you're allocating,
that's how I'd look at it.
Of course, there's more
inherent risk with something like this, but
it's getting de-risked every day with the
adoption and just all these different players.
I would say the biggest concern I have
right now is kind of what you're talking about with
the treasury companies.
I should say, when we have a bear market again, I am worried about how the leverage is going
to unwind in the space, but there's so much room for innovation.
There's so many good things happening.
And I think Bitcoin is definitely in a different category than the rest of crypto assets, but
Bitcoin is definitely in a different category than the rest of crypto assets, but I'm curious
curious to everyone else's perspective.
to everyone else's perspective.
The other line is going to be interesting to see how that unfolds, and if it unfolds
over time.
Because effectively, it's kind of brilliant what's happening here.
If you're on the investor side of the house and you provide an in-kind contribution to one of these pipes,
you're saying, okay, I'm going to give you $100,000 in Bitcoin. You'll receive $100,000
in stock. And then the stock's worth $200,000. In some ways, that's your exit. You've just
2X just via public markets as opposed to just holding and selling the underlying asset.
For this all to unwind, since it's all equity related,
this could take some serious time before we see that happen.
And it does make me wonder if there's going to be a big opportunity
in one year, 18 months, whatever it may be,
to have cash on hand to be able to buy some of these companies
that plan to do some form of liquidation on assets
that are trading, you know, 25, 40, 50% sub MNAV. So there, I think there could be a big opportunity
there in the longterm, maybe not the longterm, but like medium-ish term. If we do see a number
of these unwind and they do become for sellers, there's collections. I mean, it becomes kind of
hairy at that point and you'd have to really wait to get whole, but could be something there. I just think that like this liquidity
could be sticky over time. This is like the most sticky liquidity. They're not for sellers at all,
really, unless there's some form of board takeover. And I think a lot of these folks are getting
really, really good preferential treatment in which is Taylor.
They are for sure. But what you just described, you invest preferential treatment, which is Taylor. They are for sure, but
what you just described, you invest
$100,000, then you get the equity that's
not worth $200,000. There's a
sucker somewhere in there.
It doesn't
just work. You can't just create something out of thin air.
Just because
there's all the financialization that
you can do, and ultimately you can get
a higher amount of Bitcoin per share with all these instruments, right now there's clearly the financialization that you can do and ultimately you can get a higher amount of Bitcoin per share with all these instruments.
Like, right now, there's
clearly irrational behavior.
Yeah, yeah.
I think the right term is like
that shouldn't be allowed.
But it seems to just keep happening.
Well, it's happening right now because things are going up.
Well, that's another part of how the
flywheel works.
It can continue for like an irrational period of time yeah like it can continue for 6 12 18 months
you remember luna five years you ever tear luna oh yeah the 20 it makes sense and then we
buy back more luna and then we buy bitcoin and then all these things and yeah it doesn't make
sense but don't worry the number is going up wasn't worrying. I was happy about the number going up.
Everything is good until it isn't.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Right now, everything's good.
Don't get me wrong. I think this is all really silly.
I just think that it can go on for a long time.
And then it's going to take even longer potentially for them to have to unwind it,
longer potentially for them to have to unwind it given you know depending on the level of rights
that the folks that are controlling the company have and then the liquidation proceedings and
how that'll happen but for now like they are i'm seeing it as like if you're able to put your in
kind crypto into one of these pipes and get you know shares of the company in exchange and at two x's
it's it's wildly known that a lot of them are just sellers as well so like i agree like it's
just silly it's silly to watch happen but it's happening every day tyler you're our expert here
like give us the bull case man why why invest here like what is you know me i think you know
there's some some sound judgment here that doesn't make sense why why are these good investments and why do they keep going up i think the bull case is better
returns than the underlying asset for a company like sharp link sbet or bit minor i think you're
betting on the person at the helm the captain of the ship and what they're going to be able to do to, to market their,
their asset and attract additional investment.
And the flywheel really is strong in these companies.
And I know like that's a buzzword that can even set off alarm bells,
but basically they set up these at the money offerings.
I think Sharpling got approved for a billion bit minor got approved for
two billion.
And for the,
the person who's only casually following,
what that means is they're able to sell shares of their stock
at the money, the current market price,
and then they take those proceeds
and they buy their underlying crypto asset.
For these companies, that's ETH.
As ETH goes up, typically the price of the share goes up,
which then gives them more ammo to sell,
and they just keep running this out.
And then they will likely, there's already talk about Sharp Link and Joe Lubin
filing another at-the-money prospectus here in the near future to do this again
and just to keep buying and running the flywheel out further,
which is effectively what Saylor has done.
He's used various financial engineering tactics, and he's the master. So I don't want to put them on par with that yet
by any means. I mean, no one's going to catch Saylor in strategy, but I feel like we're on the
early stages. So you said 12 to 18 months and that's where I'm at. So I feel like, yes,
this is kind of an absurd trend. These companies are trading at 2 to 5x now, so you need to be aware of that.
But I also think this is going to go on for much, much longer.
I won't bat an eye if Sharplink and Bitminer are trading at $10 billion.
In a few months, they're at $1 or $2 billion right now.
And I think the upside is even higher than that.
And is this just, do you think, And I think the upside is even higher than that.
And is this just, do you think, because liquidity can easily flow into these products via family offices?
And it's just way more accessible maybe than other crypto.
And to your point, people look at this and they're like, this is going up way faster than ETH.
I should be buying this instead of Ethereum.
Is that like the core thesis? Yeah, I think I had the chart last week. I should be buying this instead of Ethereum. Is that the, is that like the core thesis?
Yeah.
I think I had the chart last week.
I don't have it pulled up now,
but just the,
it was eyeopening for me,
just the orders of magnitude of difference in capital in the traditional markets,
equities and private and credit effectively versus commodities and crypto.
It's like,
it's not two X,
it's not 10 X. It's like 50 to 100x.
I think it's just easier for capital to play.
I actually have an anecdotal example of this.
So I'm in group chat.
There's like 20 or 30 of us,
just old buddies who kind of come together
over the last three years.
People throw out meme coin plays all the time.
Maybe two or three people jump in.
Throughout one of these stock plays and like eight to 10 folks jumped in
small example,
but it was a noticeable difference.
The number of people who jumped in on the stock trade versus the average
crypto trade.
And I feel like it kind of reinforces it.
It kind of reinforces that,
that thesis to me a little bit.
It's just,
there's more capital.
It's easier for a lot of folks, hurdles to jump through um so i think that that's all the
bull case and i there there's more to it i'm sure others can say it more eloquently than me a dc
investor was tweeting about this this morning um and he's talking about how Joe disappeared from socials,
comes back and has bought a billion in just a few weeks.
And it really has been fast how hard they've come out.
And that's why maybe it's straight line bias,
but I feel like this pace is just going to continue and he's just going to
keep acquiring.
And that's the bull case for the stock to continue to going up as well. So that's the bull case for that the stock to continue to going up
as well
are they staking the ETH2 and natively growing it?
they are
yeah that's helpful
so they'll be able to earn yield that way
Joe of course and team
if you're betting on them over other vehicles
you're betting on their ability to earn
more yield, more better uses of DeFi financial engineering tactics.
Do you agree that like a bubble is forming here?
And there's just like awareness of a bubble forming.
I think yes,
but I pause and hesitate there just because I feel like everyone loves to throw all these treasury cows in the same basket.
And I think there's absurd ones, right, that are most likely to blow up.
But Saylor hasn't blown up.
He's been running this out for, what, five years now?
And I would bet against him blowing up.
Like, am I going to bet on Joe Lubin blowing up Sharpling?
I think if there's someone who could pull it off, it might be him, right?
And maybe Tom Lee's in that category as well.
So I'm not necessarily betting that they're going to blow up.
Are they going to have a downturn?
Sure.
Like, I'm not expecting there to be no more bear markets ever.
But another part of the bull case is if you get the golden bull run theory
to play out where we only have 15% to 30% drawdowns
over a longer-term grind up,
if there is no devastating bear market,
maybe these plays are even – that's to their advantage as well.
right so i think and i'm also a believer in that um so when do you like when do you determine how
And I'm also a believer in that.
you want to exit these types of positions how are you how are you thinking about this as a game
me it's just monitoring just the ongoing crypto market in general and how I'm feeling about this current cycle, how much longer,
how much more legs I think it has. And again, I feel like we're just kind of on the cusp of a much
bigger move up from here. So I'm not really thinking about X thing. And Sharpling is not
a short-term trade for me. It's that will be fine putting on for for several months
maybe even a year it's hard for me to commit to anything beyond that kind of timeline right now
but that's how i've been feeling about it yhc on the other hand something like that is much
different right that's more of a day-to-day management think through your your multiple
um that you want to get out on and just kind of stick to that so that's how i've been thinking
about it.
15 minutes left in the show.
Yeah.
And we'll continue to talk about this.
So I don't want to just totally switch gears,
but I feel like we got to talk about pump,
the pump ICO.
We didn't really spend too much time on it last week.
We didn't have all the details.
So we had the ICO this weekend. It sold out different reports,
somewhere between 500 and 600 million in about 12 minutes. So massive demand for this token.
That was at a $4 billion valuation. It's trading at 5.8 billion right now. So anyone who got in
the ICO is up a tidy 45, almost 50% on any size they wanted.
So incredible trade that was.
I've been a bit surprised.
No announcements so far from the team on what the token is,
if there's any buyback, and no announcement of an airdrop.
So there's still a whole lot of unknowns.
Jeebs, you're our internet capital markets guy.
What are your reactions to the pump team pulling this
off any reactions to how they've kind of gone through the tge event also curious for where
you think this goes from here yeah i mean a few things so dune put out a great dashboard
showing the distribution of size that people got in for by clip so there was like 200 plus that
got million dollar clips and then uh it sort of
went down the ladder and really showed that a lot of purchases were sub 1000 which i think is
interesting for me like i think this is a at least at this point in time is a huge success for
internet capital markets and there's sort of two things here to note one is that pump perps clearly
priced this appropriately i think they had it sort of in this band to note one is that pump perps clearly priced this
appropriately i think they had it sort of in this band that's great to see you know i think a lot
of folks thought it was pump no pun intended um it didn't it kind of stayed moderated i think
traders knew that going into this i think you can call this a success right we're up what 40
something percent from ico So anyone that bought, anyone
had the pure opportunity to go out and buy is now up 40%. And markets clearly are enjoying
pumped up fun. Now, I think you bring up some great points. One, the team has been pretty silent.
We don't have a lot of details. And I think it'll be important for us to get there soon.
And I think it's key for them to go ahead and make some announcements. There were some key initial
investors making claims early on that people shouldn't get disclosures and that this isn't
your standard type of offering, which sure, maybe it's not. But I do think investors still should
get some level of rights, some level of at least information around what they're buying, what's the future look like, etc.
There's a couple of concerning things.
One is now it's Bonk versus Pump.
Who's going to win this battle?
There's actually a serious contender here that's starting to eat a little bit of Pump's cheddar.
So something to think about there, what that's going to look like over time.
So something to think about there, what that's going to look like over time.
Is that just people trading the wind as opposed to an actual shift in things?
So yeah, I'm going to watch this one closely.
I did not participate, couldn't participate.
I haven't bought on secondary.
I'm mostly just watching this one right now.
I think this is a great feeler for how the market's trading and
wants to trade. But there's no doubt that Pump is one of the most successful protocols of all time.
And if they're able to use that revenue to buy back some of the token, that people are going
to look at this at a very fundamental basis, I think is how we approach. So just a bunch of
thoughts there. Makes sense. Petereter i've got some reactions but
peter i want to get your thoughts as well curious a if you've traded this or just any reactions to
the ico weekend and this opening tge yeah i've been watching it uh what's the funding rate right
now like 100 or something like that you know for the funding rate it's lower than it has been it's
0.0 annualized 140%. Yeah, I like that.
I like some of the strategies you can pull off knowing that the funding rate has been super high.
I mean, it opened at like 1,800%.
Obviously, there wasn't a liquid market outside of the ICO itself.
But even yesterday, I mean, at times it was 400% or 500%, which is super, super high.
So there's clearly a lot of interest in this project.
There's a variety of takes out there.
I think the most compelling bull case is just this is the fastest company ever to $700 billion in revenue.
Really, really sharp founding team.
They're quite ambitious.
They're not just trying to be a meme coin launchpad.
They're trying to disrupt streaming, which is a huge TAM. So from a creator streaming perspective, I think that
they're a pretty good bet, especially now that they have a work chest of capital to deploy.
So that'd be the bull case. The bear case is that there's just more and more competition.
We've obviously seen what's happened with Bonk. And
of course, we're going to see other competitors come into the space to compete with them. We've
seen it already. But it seems like there's going to be more and more competition if this sector
stays hot, which seems likely. So yeah, there's bull bear cases. I thought what Gerard pointed
out was one thing I really wanted to talk about was just how quickly Hyperliquid acted to have perps up and how efficient the perps were on a relative basis.
I think that's really important to note going forward and just kind of where markets are going to go in general.
I would love to see this stuff like private companies going forward.
stuff like private companies um going forward i mean that how cool would it be if we could say okay
now there's going to be perps on you know stripe or spacex or even lesser known uh like a figure
or you know some of these somewhat mature or really mature private companies um you know
tokenizing them to me is a huge opportunity and if they're going to trade efficiently and
quickly that to me is really really exciting exciting. So I thought that part was really important.
And yeah, in general, if I had to bet on which way this would go, of course, not financial
advice, but I'd probably still be a buyer just because the founding team is so strong
and the war chest capital that they have.
Well said.
A couple of reactions on my side.
And disclosure, I am still long, so I'm holding spot.
I'm also long on some perps on this as well i think you laid out the bull case pretty well
on the competition front i think actually one advantage pump has is it looks like more of the
picks and shovels play than bonk so so bonk if you want to bet on the let's bonk launch pad which
is taking market share from pump over the last couple weeks,
to do that, you buy the Bonk token.
But that's also, I think, more widely known as a meme coin.
So is that a bit of a detractor versus just betting on the Pump Fund token
itself, which is tied to the protocol?
Jeep said it.
I mean, it is a bit, in some ways, disappointing that we don't know
the utility aspect.
Are they going to do buybacks, which largely folks think they will.
But until that's confirmed, it's much more of a speculative gamble than it is an investment.
So I'm also very aware of that.
And I think if and when they announce that, it changes things quite a bit.
And I hope Deez comes back because I think arguably the biggest winner in all this is Hyperliquid.
Look at these numbers.
$700 million in 24-hour volume on the pump perps.
$550 million in open interest.
I've been tracking this.
It's probably done $3 or $4 billion in volume on the pump token on perps alone in the last three or four days orders of
magnitude higher than Coinbase Coinbase launch perps on Saturday.
I tweeted the numbers 555 million in action on hyperliquid 800 K on
Coinbase. So this is, this is the action.
The action is here on, on hyperliquid.
The other impact is like, are we no, are we no longer going to see the,
the high volatility airdrop days,
like the TGE days?
Because the perps action is kind of leveling that out
and showing us more of where it is the day before.
Because we didn't really see it in the pump token, right?
I mean, where did it launch?
It launched yesterday.
What time?
That would have been around 11.
It maybe briefly shot up.
It traded basically in a 15% to 20% range.
Ended up bottoming around 5.2, now back to 5.7.
But it's kind of largely trading within a 10% range for a few days now.
So maybe taking out some of that crazy volatility on day one.
But it's a huge unlock for sure.
And man, seeing some of these tokenized stocks or even private companies on here would be very interesting.
I think that's coming.
Stock perps are going to be really, really crazy.
I've been trading some stock perps.
Do tell.
Just testing the water,
seeing how they work.
It's a protocol
on base that has
Circle, Coinbase,
Robinhood, and MicroStrategy
perps. So I've just been taking
a dab with that. The 24-hour
volume, I mean, it's
650K on Circle perps
and the Oracle's pretty good.
So I've been testing that out.
I think these are play zero-day options at some point.
These are a great product, very effective.
And I think that this is the next frontier.
These are going to be huge in the next two months.
That soon?
You think that's your timeline? Yeah, I think protocols are good.
I think once one protocol figures it out,
and it's a small protocol, right?
But once some of the bigger protocols
that have distribution can get this going,
I mean, perps are pretty easy to set up.
You really just need a very solid order of protocol.
I think it's one of the more interesting products to watch
in the next quarter in the crypto space.
And X stocks are coming around, so you have the infrastructure for it.
Yeah, I think it's kind of interesting.
I think it's fun.
I think it's less volatile than trading some random shitcoin perps.
But overall, it seems like a great product.
Can we talk about Punk for a minute before we have to go?
Please.
Punks USD floor.
128k.
Bitcoin ETH, or sorry, Bitcoin Punk ratio.
Looking slightly more in favor of Punks right now,
although it's teetered a bit.
I mean, if you look at the USD chart,
I'm looking at it now on floor.
We have a couple places to
break through, but we break through
140k,
then we break through
180k.
Squint, and you can
see it's chopping endlessly
downward, but this looks
like we're heading toward
some strength and the opportunity to maybe break free of this.
How do you feel about it, Tyler?
Aggressively bullish to the point where
I'm really struggling. I want to get a second PONC.
It's hard to put that capital up because there's also
some very strong token trades out in front of us for the next quarter
as well. So it's hard to lock up that much capital. Um, but we just,
you see these moves, right? And I keep hammering the table on this.
Like they just go vertical.
Like punks went from basically like 90 K to 130 K and a week,
week and a half. So like like you're never going to catch those
moves of eth right it's like you go to crypto and look at this right it's just
it is truly like a store value in eth though right it holds its eth value and i'm pretty
bullish ethan yesterday's from my hour we said broak and I kind of agreed, base case, 4,000 ETH for the end of the year,
6,000, sorry, 4K was like our bear case,
6K was our base case.
I think it could be higher than that.
Quick question.
There's a variety of platforms I've been pitched on this,
and I've never really been that interested.
I think it'd be more applicable for floor punks.
But is there somewhere really trustworthy?
And I know there's a variety of options.
I guess, what would be the most trustworthy place
to post up a punk and borrow against it?
Gandhi.
Yeah.
Say that again, Dees?
Gandhi.
Okay.
I actually haven't even heard of that one one i'll put it in our chat um you
can see the punks market in there what's happening on gandhi is pretty interesting a lot of people
who are refinancing or um using their nfts to borrow against them you can also while you have
a loan out against your nft also list it so So a lot of people are teeing up the loan for the immediate liquidity
and then listing it on Gandhi to eventually sell it
to pay back their loan and then get more liquidity.
But that's been pretty much the big winner
in the NFT lending space this year.
It's a huge unlock.
I had a pretty deep history in the 2021 NFT run.
I was very active in putting my NFTs up
in lending protocols.
And the biggest gripe is you're not able to sell those.
So you're in a month.
Yeah, exactly.
Now you can sell it and list it,
or loan against it, I mean,
and then list it and sell it.
And now they're, shout out to Gandhi,
they're kind of becoming their own NFT marketplace as well. So they're connecting the lending side with the buying
and selling. And then they've been more art-focused. I think Punk's
falling into that category, certainly.
But you put a Punk up, you'll have loan offers in a minute,
a few minutes. They're generally pretty good.
And then you can kind of talk about your timeframe and duration,
which makes it easier to make those investments because you can get some
capital back.
That's kind of how you're thinking about it and the opportunity cost.
You could buy a punk and immediately get.
On punk, it's like 11%ks like 11 to 15 or so maybe yeah
so you have some options um in the world where eth goes to 6k punks are at least
a quarter million i think there's a world where they're half a million
and i think i like when you say that tyler i think the scarcity
kicks in we haven't even seen the scarcity in here really kick in at all i think you need
bitcoin to be pretty high as well for that to to happen probably like above 150 probably needs to
be like 180 or higher um but it feels very non-zero.
I mean, we got to 450 last cycle.
And granted, that was a pretty big NFT bubble.
But it's hard for me to understand.
I tweeted this yesterday.
Imagine Tom Lee just tweets about punks.
I thought about crypto punks and tweets about punks.
I still think we're going to have a punk strategy play.
We're going to see someone do punk strategy.
Yeah, I was going to say, is there any corporate treasury
taking over our bags?
I actually saw some chatter
about that in the punk's chat.
Maybe when we CTO
Liquor House, YHC,
we can implement a partial punk's
punk's treasury.
Lester's a
punk guy.
He has a bunch of punks.
Perfect.
I think he bought one from me a couple years ago.
He sold a couple too, right?
He doesn't have the ape anymore and a couple other big ones.
I don't think he has the ape.
What was his ETH address?
His ETH address?
Never mind.
Yeah, OX46 What was his ETH address? Like, his ETH address? Never mind. Never mind.
Yeah, yeah.
OX46FC.
He's like, I just want to say it.
No, it's like there's a name.
Something.
I think it's like less shit out of ETH.
You just got to go look at the Ape Punk with Fedora,
and then you can find it from there.
All right.
That's the... I'll find it here.
One sec. Or the Cowboy, sorry. Not the Fedora. Is it the Cowboy or the Fedora? I think it's the uh hang on one sec
the cowboy sorry
not the fedora
this one
yeah
all right I'll keep
looking for this
have you been trading much
like what uh yeah I've been trading much?
I've been trading a little bit much more in the
extreme micro cap category
I did sell some hype
at 49 bucks or so
which is kind of part of the plan
49-49 was the
take profit point
so that felt pretty good um
selling it kind of into the pump hype and i don't know i feel like i'm constantly trimming it so a
bunch of not a bunch but a couple people who i deem to be pretty smart and level-headed
sell big chunks of their hype bag um on this news which i thought was interesting but um yeah i've been trading
more of like the sub uh 250k shitcoin and i'm still holding some in that like one to 10 mil
range hoping that uh they're the right tokens and they don't go to zero but i haven't been uh
i didn't sell any of the mog i bought um that's your tracing a little bit
since sony fart coin i've been watching pengu go up every day with my mouth just
hitting the floor um pretty fun to watch that uh haven't sold any more rect still holding my
my rect and kind of chilling with that um so yeah being much more like i don't know I'm very happy with
hype I meant to trade
pump I fucked up
didn't obviously get into the
ICO had I got
in I probably would have got fucked
on one of these centralized platforms
because
the ways to get around the KYC I think
differed a little bit depending on the platform
so I would have gotten fucked and actually been irate the ways to get around the KYC I think differed a little bit depending on the platform.
So I would have gotten fucked and actually been irate.
When the market opened and it was already over five pretty comfortably,
I didn't feel like the risk reward was that great when you had a bunch of people who bought at four who have free money.
And I probably would have held it too long
knowing me like if i would have bought it five when i was looking and it got to six i would have
thought it would at least made it to seven so i probably round tripped it um so that's kind of
rough but yeah the ico was free money which is what we were talking about for a couple weeks before it. So that was good, at least.
But being an American, sadly, stymied my ease of investing
and also my inability to set an alarm clock for the proper time then helped.
I thought it was noon.
I did not know it was 10 a.m.
I, for whatever reason, had in my phone noon.
I, for whatever reason, had in my phone noon.
So that was good.
D's, when you're selling hype and other things,
are you converting that into stables?
Yeah, it's stables.
And about half of it's actually in my bank account.
And then the other half is between HLP.
And the other half is just kind of sitting between HLP and some wallets.
Because it's also what I'm using to buy things with.
So if I see an opportunity where I'm going to deploy money,
I have just that money sitting there to take it out from.
So I don't want to keep it all in HLP
just because if I need it quick to buy a dip,
I can't do that with HLP because of the unblock times.
But the yield on HLP has still been fairly good.
And I think with Hyperliquid showing that
if there is an exploit or bad things happen to HLP
for better or worse, they're going to protect those people.
Makes me feel a little bit better about
having some money in there getting
five to fifteen percent a month or whatever the fuck it is depending on how good the month is
peter i'm curious have you been trading much at all of you since uh even the past week
has it changed your perspective on like near term plays are you just kind of company in positions i have my long
term positions that i'm feeling really comfy in um feeling happy with how i set that up and then
yeah i've been super active um doing some delta neutral stuff which i described in the past i
feel really good about that strategy um no clue when this this uh the musical chairs will kind
of stop.
So part of the way I feel like I can lock in some profits and everything else is with these delta neutral strategies.
And funding rates have just been bonkers.
So that's probably been the thing I've been most active in.
But through that, I ended up building some positions.
I've added direct, given what you guys have said.
I have a bit of a bangu position that I've added direct, given what you guys have said. I have a bit of a pango position that I've accumulated mostly just through some yield
and not converting that back into stables.
It's not a big position or anything.
And then outside of that, nothing too crazy.
nothing too crazy.
Kind of the same things that we've all discussed.
Kind of the same things that we've all discussed.
You know,
I've built up a theory and position that looked really bad in the beginning
part of the year to kind of leverage and defy feeling a little bit better
about that.
Yeah.
Pretty much the same comfy bag,
but I am in and out of a bunch of crappy tokens depending on the funding
rates.
So pump, pump was a fun one.
Launch coins actually have been really in that, that world.
I have a huge Delta neutral position on launch coin right now.
That's been, that's been great.
So yeah, it's, it's fun to kind of just see that part of that too,
is you just watch some of these pools and you watch where the funding rate's
going. It gives you kind of a sense of a pools and you watch where the funding rate's going.
It gives you kind of a sense of a pulse on the market.
Farcoin's been great.
I mean, I'm obviously net long there, but that's one of my favorite delta neutral strategies as well.
The funding rate's been pretty consistently high.
Then you have plays like Juke, where obviously you're collecting the yield both on the long side.
Funding rate's low, but you're getting such significant yield by staking that that's another attractive play.
So mostly focused on things like that.
I think I'm really confident in Bitcoin and I'm feeling more and more confident about ETH.
So a little bit less so from a long term perspective.
perspective obviously hype's been incredible trying to think through how i want to rebalance
Obviously, hype's been incredible trying to think through how I want to rebalance there.
there but uh yeah the long-term bag is comfy and then the short-term stuff is really just trying
to capture yield and um unlike luna and some of these other things in defy where you're getting
paid in governance tokens and i didn't really know where the yield was coming from and it was just
kind of a big ponzi uh i feel great about this strategy because i know where i'm getting the
yield i'm getting yield from the people who want to play with leverage and want to you know pay a premium
to go lever bond so i love being on the other side of that trade very interesting mentioned
too with the stables i have i have thought about putting out um a couple loans on gandhi or like
letting um putting up my stables against other people's NFTs
to maybe try to farm
that 10-15% range
with lower risk loans
on punks and stuff.
But I haven't pulled any triggers there
just because I really do
dislike losing out on the optionality
of having the cash when I need it.
You never know when trump's
gonna say something stupid and you wake up at 11 a.m and you read the news and you're like why
are prices down 20 and then you're like oh my god wait all the stables i had to buy the dip with
they're now uh on loan for this talk for their 83 days and then like i i just value the optionality
so much um and sometimes that's a bad thing.
I think for a while I said I wasn't staking my hype.
And then a couple months ago I staked it.
And now I'm getting paid a couple hype a day or some shit to stake it.
And I'm like, maybe I should have been doing this earlier.
So you go look at the rewards tab and you're like,
oh, maybe two hype a day or something.
This was better than doing what it was doing
in the wallet doing nothing but
it's tough like the optionality
valuing that over
getting a locked in yield or
some type of variable yield is
constant battle for me
I think it does
say something about the high end
NFT market that you do feel comfortable at least
lending USCC
against those? Of course, with
the opportunity cost as a
downside. But it does feel like one
of the better yield opportunities out there
for those who know
the NFTs they're comfortable lending
against. I mean, just the
punk loans themselves. Most of
the loans are between
$30 and $40 E ETH and you're getting
you know 13 to 17 percent in some cases and then on top of that some of these have these
origination fees people are paying so you're also getting like a nice upfront fee for providing the
loan so it's not bad and if you do have faith in that market,
it's some of the best risk-adjusted yield, I think.
It's just you have to have that faith that we have
in a lot of shit like Kongs and Sam Spratt stuff and whatever.
Yeah.
I totally agree.
And it's also a little harder to do.
You need to more actively check and find the deal. There's competition where if you see
a loan and you want to offer a better loan, you can renegotiate it
and offer 12% instead of 14%.
There's a little bit more competition and upkeep with it, which is
nice for the people who are getting loans,
but for the lenders, it just makes it more competition
and the rates are a little lower.
Definitely.
I think the other aspect I'm watching,
and we'll wrap up, we're about 10 minutes over.
I feel like there's a chance that we're on the cusp
of a meme breakout, but my gut read is
we need the pump trade to resolve first.
And it's still kind of in this chop zone.
We're still waiting on these announcements to happen. If and when that happens like if it happens this week i think that
would be great if it's if it's not going to be for like a month that gets a little messier i think
the airdrop is the other aspect there it's a bit of a wild card because that's a perhaps influx
into the the trenches ecosystem so my gut read is maybe we kind of chop until we get more of that info, at least for the trenches aspect of this
market.
But some signs of life. I mean, it's interesting to see Pingu on such a huge run.
Mog's on a big run. Rekt. SBX is basically at all-time highs.
So there's definitely signs of demand for these meme leaders still.
So they're hanging around.
So I think we're teeing up for it.
It's still an interesting rest of the second half of the summer and into Q4.
Certainly.
We'll continue to cover it on this show.
Folks, that is going to be it for today.
We went a solid 70 minutes, but some great discussion.
I want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in.
Thank you, my co-host.
We'll be back next Tuesday to talk everything macro.
Until then, have a great week.
Goodbye. so This is the end of the video.
