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Ungovernable Podcast Ep. 19 – Takeshi
Recorded: June 4, 2025 Duration: 1:03:10Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to the podcast. so Join the ungovernables.
No filters, no apologies.
This season we're cracking open Uniswap governance. Welcome to a new episode of the Ungovernable Podcast.
Welcome everyone to a new episode of the Ungovernable Podcast. Today, we are joined by Takeshi, co-founder of Tane, a firm that is not just investing in crypto's future,
but shaping it through deep DAO participation and governance.
We are Joe and Austin of Alpha Growth, your premier DeFi operations and growth firm.
Takeshi, thanks for being here, man.
What else does everyone need to know about you?
Thank you for inviting Alpha Growth team.
I'm really excited about to be here and talk about what we have been working on.
But first off, I'm talking about myself.
Yeah, my name is Takeshi.
As you can guess, it's a Japanese name.
I'm originally coming from Japan. i'm currently based in the u.s
uh i started my career as a software engineer in japan um moved to us for the company i used to
work for uh kind of subsidiary there i was kind of assigned to the global project and then from there
kind of assigned to the global project and then from there i've been in the us since then but
after the company i switched to work for twitter around the time it's less chaos
smaller very interesting because i was really kind of believing the power of the social and the impact
that Twitter can make. So I was there working on the backend and mobile like web, but in the end,
I worked on the Twitter for iOS as a mobile app engineer. Around the time, I think San Francisco still is the tech hub.
But during 2010s, it's kind of the golden age
of the Bay Area in San Francisco.
It was great being there.
And of course, I was interested in Bitcoin,
like a new technology coming up,
Ethereum, all those things.
But I just kind of traded some, just sold them, like didn't go really into it yet at
that time.
After that, I switched my job and Kubari to be aube product manager kind of retiring from software engineer work on the
product side the company i worked for is making the news aggregation applications like google
news apple news but independent originally from japan but we have the US version of the app and trying to kind of push into the
US business. I worked on the recommendations and user interface for consumer users. So then
COVID hit all those things and crypto like web three came up uh the word became really hot in 2010 21
um i was really kind of hooked into uh crypto red pill i guess and uh there were many nft projects
that i got interested in i bought some i lost lost money, but it was great to be there,
kind of meeting new types of people,
interesting people, really kind of like-minded,
kind of new frontier oriented people.
And I really like the kind of concept of those things
that I will talk about maybe later.
So I decided to quit my job
and trying to explore what I can do
and start looking into opportunities.
Met my current co-founder at NFT NYC 2021,
which is kind of top of the hype of the NFT bubble.
It was really fun, but it's like the top of the bubble.
So but I met a current co-founder.
We discussed the opportunity and we started the crypto fund for the start.
and we started the crypto fund for the start.
And later we spun out the business operation part from the VC,
kind of incubated it for ourselves.
And now we've been focusing on two things,
running node operations for the blockchain project,
including Ethereum, Avalanche, and Celestia and others,
but also focusing on the participation in the governance side of things as well.
So these are the kind of me and the farms introduction.
Right on.
Yeah.
Would you say that it was more the tech, the people,
or the upside opportunity that really got you convicted
into joining the space?
Yeah.
I love internet as a concept, right?
Like web one.
This is something that anyone can take down
in a way, like the freedom of the transformation,
like transfer of the information, which is critical
and my kind of origin of the story of being in the tech and uh crypto uh right now
uh web2 came up and i i was a part of it actually but web2 kind of take over uh what the internet
to kind of take over what the internet is supposed to be and I think the value
transfer of the on the internet hasn't been done hadn't been done yet around
the time maybe stripe PayPal all those like big finance companies trying to kind of capture all those things, but I think blockchain
achieved
some level of the freedom of the kind of value transfer and
That's to me. It's it's the kind of true internet
coming along and
That's the part of that I got excited about.
But also, yeah.
Takeashi, just in case someone is tuning in for the first time
and they're not too familiar with this,
still this buzzword of Web3,
in your words, what is the difference between Web1, Web2, and Web3?
words what is the difference between web one web two and web three um i i would refer to the famous
uh saying from chris dixon i think uh web one is all about uh like from the user's perspective read read, read, right? Like the content owner showing what they have
and users just read them.
That's it, like one way.
Web2 is about users now create content
and that's kind of two-way communication
between users and like content owners kind of things
now with web3 people can all actually own the content right uh i i think it's important
to think about self-custody as an idea uh and the blockchain exists with the self, I mean, like credible neutral
layer of the of the platform. That's the critical point that Web3 has brought into.
And I think that's one of the most important things for humans.
And the freedom that blockchain has brought,
that's definitely the property that I got kind of really excited about.
Yeah, I think that was a really solid summary of the transition.
And yeah, looking forward to web four, I suppose.
Quick question around Japan.
So I actually, funny enough,
independently of knowing that we were going to have you on the podcast, I actually had an independent thought the other day because we're eventually going to plan a trip to Japan. And I was thinking to myself, there's actually not a lot of people that I've met in this space that are from Japan, even though Japan is a tech powerhouse, the superpower in the world you know in cars and certain types of technologies
but i just haven't met a lot of people that are you know for instance based in tokyo or
or from japan so because of that i haven't i haven't learned a ton about japanese culture and
and how it uh it plays into business because i know that there's there's some notorious things
about uh japanese culture and how it plays
well with business so very curious to hear from you um what people might not know about how uh
how how the japanese culture plays into all this here yeah um i mean aside from like not talking about crypto in general, I mean, specifics, in general, I think Japan is
large enough to have self-sustained, to have businesses inside, right? So people in Japan
in Japan, not necessarily have to think about
kind of building the businesses outside of Japan.
That's in general, one of the reason
that you don't really see people from Japan
in the other world.
I kind of been a rare existence,
kind of coming from japan trying to kind of uh make something globally
uh but that's that's the kind of general sense of like how japanese people are i like to change the
atmosphere about that like people in japan should look for outside and trying to kind of challenge themselves in the other part of the countries.
Well, but specific to crypto, like Japanese crypto culture, one thing you might not know is very,
know is very very active like in terms of trading do you know the word
Mt. Gox right yeah yeah do you know where the Mt. Gox coming from no oh you
don't know yeah that's that's a kind of misconception or like maybe something
that you don't know. But man gox is one of the Japanese exchange in Japan. I mean, yeah.
And, and they got gox and like FTX and they I think they got hacked so that all the BTC they hold kind of yeah
hacked in so but around the time like 2013-14 70% 70% of the BTC trading is happening on Mt. Gox.
So, and the word Mrs. Watanabe,
it's like kind of ordinary,
like Mr. Mrs. Watanabe is just at home trading VTC. That's the kind of interesting fact, right?
I think trader mindset kind of things are coming from like old age of japan uh so like still i i've seen
quite a few advanced traders uh also some um kind of interesting activities happening from some
borders and also uh airdrop hunters um they're kind of trying to figure out what interesting projects are, and they kind of in the mass adoption phase yet. So I think room for growth,
it's similar to what other countries have.
In terms of regulation, there is a key,
I think it's similar to US,
but there's a key like hurdle for the token issuance
with the tax implications. So it's difficult for projects based in Japan to create blockchain project and issue tokens
there. So usually like a Japanese founders trying to escape from Japan and try to build the projects in like Singapore and other countries. So that ecosystem is still somewhat like there is a room for growth.
But when the Web3 world came out, the Japanese government is very supportive for a while in trying to create use cases.
And one of the use cases to create NFT projects are less of the impact being subject to the tax implications. So many NFT projects and kind of utilizing like,
not IPs, existence IP,
but like creating some kind of animated projects,
all those things are being popular in Japan.
Some people kind of got confused with azuki as the japanese project
because it's the japanese name uh but like similar idea right like anime based uh kind
of n8 projects are very popular in japan to focus on that. Austin, your audio is coming in real fun.
Okay.
If you've got wired headphones, maybe it might be a little better.
But in the meantime, I do have a question, Takeshi,
about why it might be that japanese founders fled
elsewhere why do they why do they need to go to singapore does it have is it financial is it
regulatory it's a regulatory tax implications like if you if you issue tokens you have to pay
taxes in the end of it in the end of the year uh even even if you don't have that um so your project yeah
i'm not like expert of it but that's that's kind of the implication like regulation related things
okay gotcha gotcha are uh are a lot of people i know that in that in most Asian countries that I've either been to or interacted with people that are from, it seems like centralized exchanges is where most of the activity is. Most people only use centralized exchanges. Does that hold true in Japan as well? Or is DeFi growing in prevalence?
in prevalence um yeah definitely definitely most of the activities happening in cx uh for sure uh
people using cx not necessarily uh kind of familiar with what's going on in like d5 or
any kind of things they they may do just for trading uh as i said, like trading is kind of one of the culture in Japan, I would
say. So yeah, I would say most of the activities happening in CX. But people also trying to
kind of do some arbitrage in all those things is diff decks and CX as well. So it's, yeah, some activities happening there too.
I have one thing to mention.
Currently, like a few projects with trying to kind of incorporate,
collaborate with the large corporations and trying to be kind of compliant with the
regulations and trying to kind of work on some specific projects like stablecoin. There There has been the JPY, Japanese Yen based stable coin for a while, but not necessarily
useful for the daily use.
So some big ones collaborating with some startups to kind of create real stablecoin. Also, USDC is finally kind of coming in, in
Japan with some notable CX to deal with.
Are there a lot of businesses in Japan that accept crypto?
Not much yet.
I mean, you can see that developing countries have more needs to accept different kind of cryptocurrencies, right?
Because of the local currencies uh
volatility and those things japanese yen on the other hand isn't that much of the issue
in japan so
that's uh that's a reason that.
Yeah, yeah.
I think we're getting some background.
Austin, meet your microphone.
We're having some technical difficulties here.
Shoot.
No worries.
Yeah, Austin, if you don't mind just staying on mute until you jump in.
Okay, so maybe we do a quick little jump over here to Tane.
Yeah.
And tell us about it.
What do we need to know about it?
And what's the thesis?
Yeah, so our mission is nurturing soil for Web3. This is set when we started the VC fund.
But the whole concept is coming from our builder's mind.
So I used to be a product manager um software engineer actually building the product
the my co-founder is the co entrepreneur building businesses building product um
so we kind of deep into the product building space and getting into the VC business.
Not necessarily just kind of VC experience or finance or those things. is that we should not just invest in projects, but we also support projects that we invest in,
in a meaningful way, right, like blockchain projects need
different kinds of help or contributions from different entities, right?
And it's something that we like to contribute in a different, like, unique way.
So, yeah, this is the whole kind of thesis that we kind of stem from.
And our fan name, the company name is Tane, which means seas in Japanese.
Like we grow the seas into the trees, into the forest becoming the ecosystem so this is kind of
the story that we are trying to kind of push for all those things that we are doing is for ecosystem
and we are trying to nurture the soil to grow the ecosystem from the ground up into something
meaningful for the society. So that's the whole thesis. And we also believe in the decentralization,
right? We are kind of rare actors from one of the aging countries.
Geographical decentralization is something that we value, especially for node operations.
in US or Europe, which is kind of centralized in a way, to maintain the credible neutrality,
kind of robustness of the network, we should have geographical decentralization.
So we can contribute to that.
And we also have, we believe we also have like unique perspectives from underrepresented culture in a way,
especially in the governance space.
There are not many actors kind of representing Japan or Asian countries. And I think it's important perspectives
in terms of diversity and decentralization of the protocol governance. We believe it's a rare
property that we can we can provide to to the protocols
i've never heard the perspective of the need for geographic decentralization especially when it
comes to nodes and validation but yeah i definitely have to agree i think there's a it's a little bit
scary to think that you know if yeah like if a power grid goes out
for instance right right those those are the things so we especially uh love the i like the
ethereum uh is trying to do um decentralization credible neutral uh trying to push for the decentralization diversification of the of the nose of the protocol
governance is uh that's uh that's something that we believe in so yeah so you mentioned
you mentioned that you guys are nurturing the proverbial soil of of web3 yeah what is missing what's missing from the soil
in your opinion um i think still
especially for governance uh still not many people there like Like when I joined the call in the kind of newly launched DAOs,
pretty much most of the members I've seen in other DAOs,
I mean, maybe it's something that others think as well,
but I think talent pool or the people who are serious about contributing to the DAO
I think there should be more capable unique diverse players should be should be in the doubt as well there's definitely a a fine line between bringing in new blood and
distrusting mercenaries that are that are just coming in immediately to sell something for
instance so they're there i think that's probably the biggest biggest reason why
there isn't a lot of new there aren't a lot of new voices that gain credibility very
quickly and so it's a lot easier if you you've already served two other daos you're already a
voice in a couple other daos then you come over to a third dao it's a lot easier because people
say oh this this person's been here for a while versus a you know brand new there's also no
there's no general onboarding for any DAO, let alone
all DAOs in general, right? You can't just, how are you supposed to first interact and learn how
to share your voice and learn? There's no, there's no place where you can be brought up to speed.
If you jump into a community call, there's no context for the past four years of existence.
It's just here we are today these
are our relevant issues and you're expected to understand everything that they're talking about
so it's it's not easy and i don't know if that's going to be solved by an ai brain or if that's
going to be solved by a dao onboarding committee yeah i've seen um've seen some activities around DAO boarding efforts
I'm I used to be excited about that but at the same time like it the DAO is changing quite a bit time to time right there is no uh standard way to
express it in as a voting document kind of things it's a live uh
live organization that people has to kind of getting into and learn by experience and see how it goes.
So that's also a property that the DAO governance participants
should have from my perspective.
Yeah, I think it's important.
Can you guys hear me well?
Is this any better?
Okay, perfect.
Sorry about that.
I moved in and packed my microphone
um but i think that's super important because it's a live functioning organism so an onboarding doc
would be out of date almost as soon as you put it together trying to bring more people in so if you
have a a few people running that and are up to date and up to speed you can bring new
delegates on and get that get those new opinions into the DAO that being said what do you feel
like is missing in most DAOs in terms of subject matter expertise or what areas do you feel like DAOs are missing most in terms of a delegate voice?
I think there has been less participation from builders who are the most important part of the protocol in the governance.
important part of the protocol in the governance. I think I've seen the most of it in ENS DAO.
There are many builders trying to get involved in the governance, but other DAOs, they're trying to activate the participations from builders in the governance,
including Uniswap. possibly making a treasury delegation to developer teams so that they are they have they have voice
uh into into the governance decisions um but it hasn't been like made it into the rfc uh or
um i think the opromats is working on something related to that, but it hasn't been up to
Bolling yet. So that's the kind of difficult perspectives and one of the missing parts in the governance.
Especially as Uniswap transitions from a dex to a piece of infrastructure right you want to have
some of your top leading protocols either on unichain or v4 having a voice in the in the
larger protocols direction i think that's super important because otherwise you might be blind. They're the most representative contributors in the protocol.
They're in the game, right?
They're not just the skin in the game.
They are in the game.
And people who get involved seriously in the governance
should be really kind of in the game as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I guess maybe what would be some of your advice, Takeshi?
I know you guys have done this for multiple DAOs and become delegates for those DAOs to
somebody that is a V4 project that looks at the DAO from the outside outside and says i don't even know where to start
to become a delegate what what advice would you give some of those different projects
um definitely source of truth is forums right like all the discussions uh context uh
context.
DAO delegates, it's all happening in forum.
It's difficult to kind of make it into a boring document as we discussed.
So start with forum, participating community calls.
I think more organized version of the governance update for each DAO would be something people
would like to actually think about participating in the governance.
But yeah, forum is the source of truth for sure yeah check on the forms be active give comments just follow up to speed for for whatever yeah you don't necessarily have to comment on it but you can really like follow what's happening what what's being discussed, what's the topic,
what's the issues.
Also, each DAO mostly has foundation,
like kind of like leading communications
and announcements and all those things.
That's also their job to make sure that the participants in kind of in the know for all the things happens. It doesn't have to be foundation. There might be some dedicated team
to support those initiatives.
But yeah, rather than onboarding document,
I think comprehensive what's going on kind of update
documents would be something useful for newcomers to be interested in contributing.
So we talked a little bit about Tane and what you guys are focusing on and how you
view the aggregate ecosystem and your thesis around it. Are there specific types of projects
that you guys focus on? Is it more early stage projects?
Is it more ecosystem projects?
Is it more liquid tokens?
Well, as you can imagine, nature, the soil part is definitely infrastructure,
kind of ground of the ecosystem right so we focus on investing in
infrastructure project middleware uh something to be critical uh to achieve the ecosystem to grow
uh like like a bridge uh like cross- chain mechanism all those all those kind of things
but we also interested in the mass adoption as we we are builders and understand what's
implication about like how to achieve a product market fit.
I mean, not so much into gaming and some consumer applications.
We believe it's a little too early to get in,
but we especially like NFTs as we met through NFDNLC
and we like them as a user.
So we invested in a couple of generative art projects and NFT funds.
But those are the kind of key points, the key projects that we have invested in.
Currently, we are also interested in the DeFi applications,
especially kind of primitive kind we believe Uniswap is the most impactful, primitive in this space with brand smart people involved in the governance and push through the ecosystem like crypto world.
Yeah, you guys had a really good memo for Uniswap being the liquidity layer of the internet
and talking about your rationale for why you want to have skin in the game
for Uniswap.
How important do you think it is for delegates
to also have skin in the game
in terms of
owning the governance token
themselves?
Well,
delegates,
the main work delegates should do is not really about making feedback or not even like making proposals even, but represent token holders and voting on behalf of them uh that's the i mean the definition of delegates is
that right um to do so it's one of the ways actually skiing the game
align with the token holders right so definitely one of the key things that delegates should do to be aligned with token holders. And we believe
that's something we should do for unit token to become the token holders, right? But it
doesn't have to be the only way for delegates to make impact in the governance. I would call self like semi service provider delegates are
participating in the DAO operations rather than just voting and making uh feedback to the proposals um we are a part of the uh optimism uh grant council related
members and that's we believe it's it's a part of like semi service providing um and delegation
delegate should should be kind of played part of it uh in the dao uh space um but i think
um skin in the game is one of the critical um properties that delegate should consider and
we did it for for unisop yeah i love that well i feel like you align
interests too right like if you're receiving delegation you also have upside and you're
are going to act on the the best interest of those who's yeah and also you right yeah yeah
it's a virtuous cycle yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's that's what that's what we believe in
like when starting the the we see right like we invest in the project and we also also collaborate
support like adding value to the project so it's uh um i think the friday of of those kind of two parts capital and
actual contributions is something to come with yeah like they always say put your money where
your mouth is yeah um so but i wouldn't say like that's the only work or that's the only property that delegates should have.
But that's the most one of the critical ones that they have.
Yeah.
So and you were saying you partake in multiple DAOs for the governance process and different validators.
How does Tane make decisions on where to expand and how to expand into these different DAOs and validator sets?
Yeah, we particularly like selective projects that we participate in. We participate in the projects that to be
primitives of the components in the ecosystem. Unicef should be
the primitive. We participate in MoFo, which is kind of new generation of the landing protocol.
Kao is like intent-based things, a little competing with Uniswap actually.
But yeah, we kind of consider projects to be primitives or not.
And we believe in Ethereum,
so we are running validators for them.
We also running validators for Celestia
because it's also the primitive
of the data availability layer.
I can be co-worked with Ethereum and others.
co-work with Ethereum and others.
So, yeah, those are the kind of decision-making points that we have for the project.
So essentially, are we going to invest in time and capital into the project?
Yeah.
Yeah, make sure yeah and uniswap is definitely the
one as i've been saying um capital and the actual contributions uh yes it's important yeah so to
double click on on uniswap you know writing that memo uh being the liquidity layer of the internet what do you think will help
make the next major unlock for uniswap and really level up is that going to be v4 or unichain
um i i would say both right but i'm particularly excited about unichain and UVN, like Unichain Validator Network.
I think it's very rare for like,
no developers to be in the governance as well.
I mean, that's the kind of known in the cosmos world
because cosmos chains, validators are staked and have
voting powers for them to decide on the proposals but then not necessarily the
experts on the governance on the other hand
Ethereum protocols like especially like De5 governance they are not like
node operators until now uniswap is introducing some of the kind of node operations into uvn
so i'm particularly excited about how we can contribute to the UVN as an active delegate and also professional
node operator.
Takeshi, what is UVN and why do you think people should care about it?
So UVN stands for Unichain Validator Network.
chain variator network. It's essentially trying to decentralize L2 like validation, like sequencing
system. It's the we believe one of the important technological advancement working with like Optimism, OP Labs and FlashBot.
I don't go into the details of how it works, but I think that's critical technological advancement.
I think it's very useful for users, strong brand and clear messaging of what Unichain has to be.
So it has some part of the decentralization part as well that we believe in. All other, not all, but many, most of the L2 is running
centralized sequencers. Even on top of Ethereum, which is the credible neutral and all those
things, it has a centralization perspective in the L2. But I think Unichain is kind of changing the part.
But I mean, I'm excited, like stepping back, I'm excited about Uniswap as a brand, as an ecosystem, as a protocols, right?
I think this is coming from the vision statement
that Erin from the foundation mentioned
in the GovSwap event.
The Uniswap should be liquidity layer of internet.
It's coming back to my original point.
It's not just about blockchain, it's not about Ethereum,
it's about internet and then the liquidity layer,
one of the important point of the blockchain projects,
liquidity is to be on the internet, be with uniswap and i think unichain
as a as a system to achieve the kind of blockchain with the decentralization part
blockchain with the decentralization part and also v4 is the mechanism for
kind of plugable uh kind of applications to be to be using uniswap as their edge for for the
applications um i think those kind of combination of those things as Uniswap
is definitely something we are excited about.
Yeah, but it's almost like you're getting the App Store on the iPhone
and now you're trying to have all these killer apps or killer hooks
or killer protocols on Unichain.
So that way you're able to expand out
and tap into new audiences.
Yeah, definitely.
It's kind of a SDK in a way,
like a DeFi SDK with the liquidity center
the center into the protocol.
into the protocol.
So I think it's just still starting, right?
Definitely need bootstrapping.
That's why we support the foundation and Godlet trying to kind of take a lead into it.
to kind of take a lead into it but eventually it has to be sustainable um and the attracting
But eventually it has to be sustainable.
developers builders built on the project as well as node builders are attracted into the uvn to be
sustainable l2 mechanism uh in in the unit chain as well.
Yeah, you hit on sustainable growth.
What do you think are like the key pillars or pieces
for Uniswap to have that flywheel going
and have that sustainable growth?
It's a good question.
I think we are still figuring it out, right? Like the incentive
program is happening at this moment. We should evaluate what's going on there. But also,
I think the role of the governance, the DAO, is critical in the perspective.
I think making swift and critical decisions as a DAO
is important, but at the same time, currently we have
the quorum issue, similar to other DAOs.
quorum issue in like similar to other dolls. And we are trying to address this issue by
proposing a proposing one of the kind of RSCs. But at the same time, it may not be ideal solution so we are still trying to tackle this this
perspective and trying to make the DAO sustainably kind of making decisions but
mid to long term I think delegations is something that we need to fix as well.
But as you may know, FaeSwitch, more incentives for delegators to delegate their like stake,
their tokens for governance activities or unichain maintenance.
I think those are the kind of key advancements
that we should keep eyes on.
When you say fixed delegations,
what are you talking about?
So currently, they're not that much of the motivation
from delegators to delegate or change the delegations
based on what their delegates do, right?
Like set delegations and forget kind of things at this moment.
It's like rock the tokens and forget,
because nothing will change the structure.
It was like maybe APR not changing.
But I think that's also kind of incentive alignment, right?
There should be clear alignment as a system to be there for delegators and delegates are aligned.
And that's in a sustainable and sustainable way.
So that's what I meant by fixed delegations.
I think it's broken.
Everyone knows that.
But there hasn't been a solution.
There is going to be a solution, experimental.
But we need to see how it goes and it's a face which is one of the
and unistaker uh or uh it's something that we are excited about as well yeah i know feast which
has definitely been talked about for a long time and hopefully looking to see that come up
on the horizon soon.
I wanted to ask Takeshi, just a hypothetical.
If you were delegated 41 million uni, what would you do?
41 million.
Yeah, if you had the whole quorum,
you can do anything you want.
What is the first thing you're doing?
If you can decide one ultimate future that you can build on,
let's say, like Facebook or Instagram, those things, right?
Yeah, exactly.
What's the first proposal that you'd pass for Uniswab?
That's a great question um but first like stepping back it's it shouldn't be the case right
um as a nature of the decentralized uh they'll make decision making um but if i were to make something around uniswap um
yeah i would do i would do the same but more maybe more focusing on the developers uh
like how how can we how can we attract um developers to build something on Uniswap
and making actual use for the users?
Yeah.
JOHN MUELLER:"Come on.
Nothing controversial.
Nothing around vSwitch or delegates? Nothing?
Well, I would say...
nothing nothing controversial there's no wrong answers there no that's okay and i i do i do
appreciate that you have that that you that you hold uh you hold integrity and your your love and
respect of decentralization so yeah sorry to put you on the spot for that one. No, we love asking that question because, you know, in a perfect world, if, if there was a, if there was a CEO crowned, you know, who in this case would be hypothetically you, it's always fun to, to run the thought experiment of what is the first thing you would do.
But yeah, it's a follow up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, to your point, I think every person who can make even partial decisions
about the protocol should have a clear, maybe somewhat clear vision of what the protocol
should do.
So yeah, it's a great question uh i i believe in what what the current like foundation
and like the dow are trying to achieve is aligned with what we believe we should do
um but yeah i i will think out of books and think about what we can do. All right. Next time we talk to you,
I expect a super spicy answer, okay?
Okay.
Okay.
Spicy.
All right.
Well, Takeshi, we'll wrap there.
Really appreciate you coming on.
Seriously, thank you for joining us today.
For our listeners,
do not forget to subscribe on Spotify and YouTube,
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Follow us on X at Grow Uniswap to stay up to date.
And this was the Ungovernable Podcast.
We are Joe and Austin.
See everybody next week.
Thanks again, Takeshi.
Thank you, Ivan.
This was the Ungovernable Podcast by Alpha Growth.
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