Hey, hey, hey, chicken myself, my headphones and everything.
Everyone for rolling in we're gonna start really soon give me second to retweet and tweeted and also announce in our telegram community, but yeah, we are really happy to have you on here. We're gonna
talk about grants, how to get them from chains. If you have a WebSphere project, this is the AMA for youth for today. Please join in, like APN and post with the AMA. Let's get all the builders here.
I see someone just requested to speak. We are having started the A-MAY guys. I'm just getting some right tweets and tweets in our telegram group, so more people can join in.
But yeah, in the meantime, let's see what you guys have to say.
By the way, we're not looking for any managers, moderators or any marketing contracts. So if you guys are requesting to speak about your marketing
for proposals please cancel your request because we are not going to discuss marketing proposals here. Thank you.
While I'm waiting for more people to join in, we're going to have more people from our team to answer questions. All of us are doing many different things and we talk to many different ecosystem, people, projects, builders in the space. We will have more perspective on
how to get a grant from each of us. So please stay on. We're going to have more people and more speakers and panelists here. But basically, my name is Rebecca. I'm one Twitter as @Rebecca.ro with double K, not CCs. So my DMs are always open. If you have any questions,
about grants or Web 3 in general you want to collaborate please don't hesitate to jump in. So Alpha Growth is the platform that helps Web 3 projects to get funding through ecosystem grants so think L1, L2s, any sort of roll-ups, almost any change
in a blockchain in the space has grants programs and ways for builders to even try to build on the chain. So think about the RFPs usually they call it or Bounties. It's not like bug Bounties but something like that. Projects can
So, the change of projects actually can also list their proposals for work and developers can bid on them. So, yeah, there are many ways how you can start in the space. Or if you already started and you already have MVP or a live project that's even better because you can definitely apply for ecosystem grants.
to bootstrap your project. So obviously there are many ecosystems right now popping up. Some of them do not have already grants programs, so think about like top five chains. They already move to more of an investment side of things and they close the grants programs.
Many people might even ask, "Why ecosystem do even have grants program?" Well, it's obviously to incentivize more builders to come in and build on a chain, to develop the ecosystem, but obviously it's also to disrupt the ecosystem per se and fueling the gaps.
Just give me guys a second. I will invite more speakers in Hello, good morning. Let me know if you can hear us and house your mic. Good morning. Good morning. How's my mic?
Mike is amazing. Okay, cool. Can hear you allowing. Cool. Yeah, I think you think Rebecca I think patients, you know, just got off a call with like another chain that's launching that's launching another grants program. It's super exciting. They're doing some really cool stuff in liquid staking and derivatives and and
And you know, the whole decentralization of crypto makes it a very, very messy business, right? Things are not linear. Things are all over the place. And what, you know, our main goal of existing is
to try to centralize and get clarity in the process. Right? So right now we're tracking 216 different grants programs. Right? So there's, and there's another like just in the Cosmos ecosystem was talking to somebody yesterday. There's another 54 chains launching within just the Cosmos ecosystem.
system alone. And so as a project owner, as a developer, it's like, how do you navigate this process? How do you figure out, you know, where I should pay my attention to and where I should pay my time and what I should look at? Because there's no way that you can make like 216 relationships with all of these different
understand that they want to understand it the best. And yeah, make sense of them. Exactly. And how your project fits in it. Yeah. Exactly. Like it's it's crazy amount of connections and it's just like if you do that, you're you're basically not working on your project at all.
And so, so, and that's our goal. I mean, we, we were helping to play grants for near and Aurora, and it was just massive. It was just massive disconnect between projects. I would say more than half of the projects that in existence that we talked to.
didn't even understand that grants were available. In traditional Web 2 and you get your funding from investment. Everybody that's coming from Web 2 and building their first Web 3 project is like, "Hey, let me get crypto investors."
Right now we're tracking around like $9 billion of grants to deploy with hundreds of millions of dollars of fresh capital every year. The fundamental best narrative or best way to describe this kind of Rebecca if you want to bring up poor ape.
Let's see what we have to say here. Cool. So the best way that we can describe this mechanism is imagine the launch of like Android, Huawei, and the iPhone. And they launch their phone and you go to the phone, you
log in for the first time and there's no apps. There's nothing to do on the phone. There's not even you can't even call you can't text message, you know, there's no Instagram, no, no Twitter app, nothing. Your phone is predominantly worth nothing. You just bought a computer that can't has no applications. It's not worth anything. And so when these blockchains
They're exactly the same way. They launch their chain, they get their chain launched, and there's literally nothing there, there's nothing to do. The blockchain is practically worthless. The only value it really fundamentally has is maybe they have like, I mean, consensus algorithm, they did some research, and people have bought the token on based upon speculation. So now the chain
This iPhone that's launched this blockchain that's launched they have to go crap. We need apps. We need builders. We need apps. How do we get builders and apps here? It's like oh, well a tweeted yesterday literally every call that we get on with an ecosystem. It's like we have the best tech
We just needed to let our developers know. Yeah, it's just by the like the whole process of that like there's no way that 200 and some chains all have the best tech right? And you know like I think like also chains that really undervalue a Diminish actually that it's a very big lift to
Learn a language or another consistent or how even the stack operates even if it's another even a roll up I mean still the stack will be different from another chain usually so like I think it's very diminishing like the lift for developers also to To go on a common board, you know, yeah, I mean my programmer developer background it's like learning another language, right? So like once you look at it
like three languages, the port becomes easier, the fifth becomes easier, but it's not trivial to learn the next language, right? So, you know, people are like, there's some chains that are pushing towards Python, pushing towards JavaScript, pushing towards these different languages, but some of them are like obscure like Haskell. Oh, we got a question from Porey.
I was just going to say, I think there's just going to be some brutal, natural selection going on. Because as you say, the hurdles to get into a new ecosystem and because of the hurdles are so big, the kind of reason
to jump ship and go on to another ecosystem has to be just vast. There has to be a massive reason for you to go through that learning process that invests that time and energy in a basically not economically socially untested environment.
there might be a unique reason for that, but it will at last, will it stand the test of time? Is the momentum it has now? Will that have that going forward? Just because they've got some USP and that's pulling people in now, will that propagate to the future?
predominantly, history has taught us kind of no. So that's why I spent people, like, back to that, you know, what I know is that. Like, for example, I wonder if you have a different opinion, but like what I hear from developers and where I definitely see, like, developers put a bat on a chain where they're what users, right?
So I'm sorry again. The demon I mean developers and you know founders as well put a bat on the new chain when they launch or let's say they go on different chain multi chain or they just selecting a first chain. They go where the users are even if the lift of learning a language or learning how the stack. Yeah. You're gonna go
and put a bet even your own money and your own expenses when they're users. And this is what also for some reason, again, back to Brian's point on the best tech, just like, well, other users. The thing is, if you think about it,
It's like someone comes along to you and says look I've got this platform. I've got this blockchain. It's freaking amazing. Like you know look at the stuff folks are doing that. That's absolutely incredible. Gavin would designed the the EVM in like three days and then he took three years off and he got 50 developers to build the underlying protocol of dot and and it is in insanely
incredibly good platform and they're having trouble pulling people away. So to generate an ecosystem, a buzz in ecosystem. So if the guy that created the Ethereum EVM is having trouble doing that, like what chance have you got? And not only that, as a founder,
If you come to me and say, "I've got this train, it's great, it's fantastic, it's got momentum, do you want to come over?" I mean, it's always going to be notes because it's like, mate, I'm handling a discord, I'm handling people, I'm handling tickets, I'm handling Tristis spaces, I'm building the NELC721 from the ground, how the fuck do I test this#
know what the hell's node, you know, I've got 20 things going on, I can't layer another thing on top of that, it's just not feasible. By picking Ethereum, by pick insilidity, you're going with the flow, you know, and once that decision is made, you put that in a drawer, in a cupboard that's done. It's
you don't have to go back to it. So whereas if you go down another path, there's a lot of time you have to spend it, which is why I think these these change do all these grants and have people out there that are just ready at a drop of a hat to help you, but that doesn't, it's just I feel for them, it's really hard.
Yeah switching costs are tremendous whenever you're doing tech tech stack switches and in the amount of languages that are being created especially in the ZK area like every new chain is launching a new like ZK language like it's bonkers right so you're gonna have
A huge like cavern explosion and within like these languages and ZK like literally every chain is doing a different language It's like nuts and and you have to kind of learn the intricacies and the grammar of it all and and yes, he case a huge opportunity but at the same time it becomes like tremendously like one of these things where
You can't contain the entirety of the contextual language and the context of all of the different grammars in the language rules of each of these chains. The more languages you know, the easier it is to learn the new language, but grammatically there's always little tricks.
When chains usually start to do is they have a narrative they usually raise on a narrative or they raise on an investment or they Saw a problem in another chain a lot of the people that these new chains now of like you know, they've worked at polygon They've worked like a different cosmos as core developers. They've worked in a theory like talk to the cantor guys like
two of the guys on the team work core developer. One of the guys was, you know, built sushi swap and so they know fundamental problems. And the first thing that they do is they go, hey, I'm going to explain this narrative out there and the developers are just going to come or my friends are going to build. And so what happens in these grants programs is the first set of
and the first set of, if it's quality narrative, they suffer from this thing called proximity bias. And what they effectively do is they take, you know, their token of the chain that they just launched and they just fund all of their friends or anybody willing to come. But, but what they do is they kind of miss the target on
and really getting exposure to larger and larger audiences. And so, you know, the beta move is fund your friends, fund the people that you know that are bringing gaps, run hackathons and test net competitions. Everybody does the same three things. Fund your friends, test net competitions, and hackathons. Yes, poor ape.
Yes, I was going to ask, do you think there's, I don't know how I'm kind of dancing around this world, but I don't know how else to say it. Do you think there's kind of fraud in the kind of grant process for these chains? In the fact that people just keep...
for sure. That seems like what you're describing and before even came on this space it's something I would perceive to happen to kind of have a
Yes, and nepotism is okay if you're successful and everything is going up into the right, but proximity bias fails eventually, right? Like, you know, the average person can only hold like 100 some connections so you can only have 100 relationships. Now, you know, if you if you
Everybody on your BT team is very, very well connected and you have eight people on your BT team. You just math it out. That's around 800 connections. You might as well have the family and friends like maybe you have 50 or 60 connections or relationships. Times 8, you're talking about 400 and
80 possible people that they can connect with that need to be at the right time, the right available and to be able to build apps, right? So you've done some bad ass math. So for one of our clients, Kava, we've reached out to 3,500 projects.
And we brought over 60 some projects. It's the number changes every day. And so they went from like 12 dApps to I think they're at like almost 80 dApps, 78, 79, 80, some are around their dApps on there. And so I mean fundamentally like about half of those dApps signed up for a
Grant on the AlphaGrowth platform and we've deployed a grant for them and like that's more about half of our deal flow is the other half of our deal flow is is going outbound right so yes you have an idea you have a narrative you have your friends that that can come and build apps at the beginning but as soon as your beauty team starts to
to like the deal flow is going to trickle off. Like we've been doing this a while, network effects, we're running thousands of thousands of dollars of ad campaigns to projects every single month. And so what we do is we get to skip the line. Right. So when we work with the chain in your son of a frial for growth,
We we pull out a profile. He fell out of bio and then we know exactly who to match you to and so so what they do is they come with their shopping list right so they have a chain has a thesis and they have a shopping list and it's probably the other thing the most important thing that I've learned in this game so far is that
It kind of doesn't matter as a developer, your brilliant idea is if it doesn't match to an investor's existing thesis or ecosystems existing thesis, they're not going to fund you. So there's a big gap.
We were talking to a ZK chain. They basically came to us and said, "Okay, it's cool what you're doing. We don't care about anything except for real-world assets. We want to meet every single real-world asset project."
Hey, I need defying for structure and they need to build defying for structure in this particular way and another channel will be like hey, we need LSD's I want to get three to five different like LSD projects on you know liquid-staking derivatives on our chain and then have those liquid-staking derivatives compete so what what happens is
They may put it up in a tweet. They may put it up on their page, but it changes. Like literally every month, every two months, like whatever the hot new narratives is, these chains need that narrative. They need that deal for
flow. And if you're kind of looking at the scale of these 200 different things, we need to do a better job at this. But I think one of our core value propositions or core things that we need to do is to be communicating to this to develop our
audience of like, okay, now this chain is looking for role vastness, this chain is looking for liquid sticking derivatives, this chain is looking for D5, this chain is looking for NFTs. Yes, sir. >> Why do these chains want to niche down?
Because they're not Ethereum, they need to. So they need to have a thesis on how they're going to expand in a strategy on how to expand. And there's five different components of usually KPIs where they get evaluated on. One is TBL, user
wallet growth, transaction volume, quantity of DAPs and things to do, and then monthly active users. So they want habit forming DAPs. So you're telling me that through experience it's easier to niche down and call over
niche then it is to open up and just pick the best projects and pull them over. Oh yeah. Focus on the top for like 100% because there's a lot there's a lot of like um uh when you're different yeah different ways how you can judge the the project cannot be as a category so it's like you
you need to back a different selection criteria. Exactly. Yeah. So if it's defying, of course, we're going to look at like, you know, TVO, you know, any stats we can find in different or any other tracking systems. And you know, for NFTs, it will be different like rolling right and like floor prices. So it's very like, and plus, like as a human brain, because anyways humans need to
to evaluate it at the end of the day. You need to put in a matrix. Exactly. Yeah. No, go. Call it. I didn't know that. I was completely unaware of that. Yeah, it's really weird. Investors have investment criteria and they want to meet everything within their investment criteria and everything
else is a waste of time unless it's kind of like slightly parallel in parallel thinking of the underlying thesis and the ecosystems are the same exact way. They all agree what they want. Can I ask you a question like about other blockchanges that were all these ecosystems hanging off a theory and basically from a
developed as prospective and the research that I've done to various bull market phases, shall we say, is that the kind of USP that they have is obviously the cheap transactions and the speed of transactions, which to me, instantly makes me think, right, what utility, what can you do with
that USB on that chain that you can't do on Ethereum because of the gas costs on the speed. So to any of these ecosystems, look at what their USB is compared to Ethereum and then ask for products that specifically focus on that. So specifically focus on economies of scale and speeds of economies of scale.
When I say scale, I mean sending you two cents or five cents or something. Yeah, and everyone has a slightly different narrative and you know, we may be partnering with a United Arab Airmen chain that basically
the country says, "Hey, we want to start the blockchain revolution here. We want to push by the end of the year a billion dollars of our TBL, a billion dollars worth of capital onto a chain, but we're going to need a whole entire ecosystem of DAPS to play with, right? On there to create it."
You have different motives, different nation states getting involved. There's one chain out of Northern Europe that is working with the countries first launch of a CDBC and they're trying to go help through the EU and get the regulatory regulation.
So you have technical type of theses which is like scalability, the sharpening, transaction volume, fast findings, and the
And each one of these unlocks is creating like net new information and knowledge for the like the entire world right and not everyone is gonna work and things are gonna be like transitory But you know what works on this chain may actually not work on that chain, but that I do
idea can then be translated to another chain that has that. And I think that you kind of see that with the advent of all these different L2s that are coming off of Ethereum. You have ZKL2s, you have Fastfinality, you have Optimistic Roll-Up, ZK Roll-Ups, Arbitrum is launching their token like
People are ethereum maxis where eth has the most liquidity. I have a little bit more comfortably going to L2s and transferring liquidity because of potential brinjacks. But I could see a future in
where every company has a chain and every nation state has a chain. And so, you know, I'm not sure that's going to happen, but if you kind of like play it out, the app chain thesis or, you know, the monolith thesis of like Ethereum,
on the price of Ethereum specifically, if you kind of look at the transaction volume and you look at the price, the rotator season of once gas became like $100 to execute a
contract on Ethereum, it made almost no sense to transact on Ethereum except for big, big $10,000 or more transactions. If you're like, "Oh, gas is 1% or less, it's fine," but somebody doing $100
transaction of capital with a $100 gas cost makes zero cents. So as these different chains and the different prices of these different chains become more popular, the function
additional attachment to gas becomes less functional and therefore you will start to bifurcate and in fork to activity to other L2s, L1s, you know, different ideas and concepts.
I got it. Is that the answer question? It's complicated, right? Yeah, you seem to be plugged into this ecosystem a lot more. I know what you're saying about the... I think the same, but I've been watching a company called Energy Web and they're deploying on
on dot and dot's got its relay chains with dot dot and cassava are relay chains so basically you you run your own chain off the relay chain and reach the relay chain does finality for you so it's got the speed it's got the horsepower and it's got the ability to take your
for a wrapped up runtime environment and then run your transaction against it. So all of these little relay chains, all these little power chains that come off the main relay chain all have their own runtimes. It's like super fucking cool. And not only that, the runtimes are on the little
change. So the winner transaction is picked up by a watcher on the main chain, it pulls the current runtime environment and then runs the transaction against it to find out if it's you know to validate it and then to confirm it and add it to the block. But it looks like energy where
is going to do that, it's going to have its own relay chain. And then off that, it's going to have companies and countries having their own power chains. So it will kind of monitor their flow of energy within that sovereign nation. And then all of those, all those,
sell all those sales and buys and transfers will be logged on the blockchain. And then, you know, they've now got their XMR, this interchange message in set up so anyone can query any country, which means then you can get sovereign nations selling sovereign nations. It sounds, you know, really cool.
also looks like that kind of forking futures happening but within an ecosystem. Okay, so I'm going to put my nerd hat on and say that's freaking awesome, right? The idea of like these kind of like virtual machines but like kind of like virtual runtimes kind of like integrated.
started it. It's just mental. It's a runtime. It's freaking crazy. They basically built a Wazan compiler. On your bare metal, if you have an update of your bare metal to the latest runtime, for
your blockchain, what it can do is it can actually send over a wasm version of the runtime and run it on top in memory. While you update the bare metal underneath, it's fun because they did a thousand upgrades last year, like an Ethereum did too. It's just, there's so far ahead. I want to take my nerd half
off. I'm sorry man don't stop me I just like I'm just gonna get like down that hole but let me take my nerd hop hat off for a second and put like the user or the the energy consumer or the power plant like
Why should they care? Right? Because they don't. With the don't think is they do in terms of if you can present them like they okay they've got two spreadsheets yeah and both spreadsheets are identical yeah but ones maintained by a company and the other one is a decentralized ledger.
Yeah, and if you explain that one is unmanipulatable and represents the truth and finality and the other one is held by third party and could be manipulated whenever they got a black hat. No fucking way. We want the one that we can trust. You know, we want the one that can't be manipulated.
And it be like that. I don't think they care. I honestly don't think these energy companies care. What they do care is get me more access to places where I can push my power. Get me more abstracted token on ways that I can sell my energy better.
get me more ways where I can get discounts and rebates from governments and subsidies because I'm going carbon neutral or something. That's what they care about. If they want to track the assets, they want a true representation of that. If you tell them they've got 100
50 million in the bank and they like brilliant wicked and they take that to get a loan or a advance model or whatever the core massive corporate entities do and then they go through an audit in woho sorry you've seen to be 50 million short where did that go you know that's a little bit of a problem you know and then you and Ernest Young have to have a serious talk
But this removes all of that. - I hear you, I hear you, but that's, you know, that's, so, yes.
And yes, and no, nobody cares about our blockchain outside of crypto, right? And that's kind of like the message that we have to start to tell to these different ecosystems. Like we have to use the word blockchain.
push for the benefits. Right, I hear you. But the use case, the business impact, are you are you securing energy? Are you getting carbon credits? What's the financial value? Am I going to get access to more users? Am I going to get better distribution?
And am I going to reduce my accounting fees? That's the utility. So you have to communicate it in that aspect. And the problem of- You have to speak that language. Yes. Yes. That's what I'm getting at. And so what happens is because the
So, the generation of technology is so fast and the narratives are so fast, changing, that when you get to these different changes, they can't build these narratives fast enough. So, that's where the grants programs come in. So, whatever new narrative is hot on a crypto twitter, unless there's a very, very
And they're putting that out there. Like they are looking for those projects, but but a lot of these guys are iterating to the next new narrative because they don't want they don't know what it is.
Really is gonna be the next trend like if anybody tells you the like this is the next trend in crypto if it's like real life is their line. Yeah, definitely know what that is what's covered down the fight So they have to keep their optionality open they have to like say have like here's more long-term goal long-term thesis
And here's the different narratives that are going to apply to that and we want to meet the projects that are going along that narrative and then potentially, you know, in grants, early stages is all grants, you know, Polygon, Salana, AVAX, now they turn into investment vehicles, right? So like, for example,
So, if you have a Fortune 500 client in an NFT project, we want to meet them every single time we want to understand what they're doing and we want to win that business. We want to be able to have them build on avalanche.
I'm trying to say is there's the individual thesis, there's the chain thesis, and the more mature chains, Polygon, Salana, Avax, Ethereum, Ethereum, still deploys grants for foundational building, but effectively most of the grants are basically
non-existent now for the late stage change and what they have now is investment vehicles that and they're going to invest in their thesis in a more kind of traditional way. Do you get do you get any because what you've just described to me if I'm correct is you have themes of
So rapidly developing the space and they are the front of the bleeding edge of what crypto is doing and can do. And because these narratives has such a force of weight behind them, because they're new and you know, very popular spaces got a real magpleg on.
And these chains are chasing that. Do you ever find people that do you ever find Grant Hoppers? 100% we know three or four of them that are more one in particular. I'm not going to mention names because we of course. I think they're on
27 chains down they've gotten a grant from me 25 of them. Yeah, I mean the role of business. And they have and they have some volume and they have some TV on they have an embedded bridge in their technology and and it's a little bit sexy so as soon as a new chain
is out they have they have somebody internally be the going to each and individual every grant program and applying and saying hey we'll be you know your first you know one of your first apps. How how do you deal with that as someone that knows a lot about the grant space and obviously deals one to one with these L2s and stuff.
What grant hoppers, I mean like you know them right you can you can kind of tell like like this Conversations like what they're asking for if they're asking for you know big cash up front and not liquidity incentives or or different incentives at different milestones you can tell that hey I need this much
to get started and what about later in summer. We don't really care about that. You could kind of suss it out a little bit. And then there's about seven different types of grants that we've deployed. Liquidity incentives, milestones, transaction volume milestones, wallet growth milestones,
TVL based, deployment cost based, Twitter engagement, loans, we deployed a loan recently which was really an interesting deal and investment. And generally,
we're not deploying the investments, we are connecting the dots to the foundation and the foundation that decides. We generally have a standard offer for each chain. Here's the standard offer and then if it's something super novel or out of the ordinary, then you've got to kick it up to
that had to be the, and sometimes the CEO of the chains to make these deals. We just, I won't say who, but we just deployed like $165,000 investment into a project front. And it took about four hours
more than four hours of conversations and educations on why we thought that this change should invest in this project and it was like a four or five hours of like education on both sides on how to like arrange the ask and it was win-win and both sides are extremely extremely happy
happy, but it's like, you know, there's investment, there's, there's, you know, just an upfront grant, there's, there's milestone based about seven different types of grants we've deployed. That seems like an incredibly short period for an incredibly large amount of money. Is that normal?
No, there was a lot of history, right? And there was a lot of like, and there was a security audit what the 165,000
I thought you said 165 billion. No, no, 165,000. Oh, right. Okay. I'm gonna say no, no, no, no, no. She's okay. Cool. No, no, no, yeah. Maybe I said I'm apologize if I did. But no, I
Like some if it if it standard offer a lot of the times I mean some we were deploying grants like 50k grants within 48 hour turnaround times at one point in the bull like it was it was nuts like it was like we need daps we need attention we need marketing we need the next partnership announcement right now it's it
longer cycles, I would say generally like a month or two are about the cycles now from introduction and first touch point to full grant deployment acceptance that everything is probably about 60 days now. Cool, cool. Yeah. I went into something that was hot. How long is the tail of?
the tail off? Yeah, like when, how long does interest remain in the subject was the last great thing, not the current great thing, the thing before that, like how quickly does that trail off? That's a good question. I'm very, very heavy into DeFi, the
thing right now is voter escrow and you know that was one year ago we'll so curve and then on Andre Kronge with solidly and the VE forks are really really hot right now but on top of that we're starting to see new books
We just talked to a company that's doing a liquid-staking derivative with a voter-escri-model, which is really interesting, which is like, cool, you have this liquid-staking derivative, but now how do you diversify where you're going to delegate to?
the validators and the delegators can then vote on where the delegation goes for the liquid-staking derivative, which is super cool. And I think it's very, very phenomenal approach. It's a very phenomenal approach. So you can start to distribute the
knock a motor co-efficient, it kind of reduces the centralization of power and these proof of stake validators. And it starts to kind of impact one of the people that did this was the one who was on Algorand. What the fracks was it?
with the liquid governance. So, you know, there's, you know, abstraction after abstraction in use case,
because you don't want all of the voting power to end up in the strongest LSD like Lido or Sticky or whatever. You don't want them to have all the power to really control the chain so you have to figure out how to put another governance module on top of that.
every centralization in commodification of like any different type of one of these things requires another decentralization impact often to counterparty the centralization and the efficiency. It's very clever what's going on in that space. Yeah, that just scrambles my mind. I remember when
First learned about flash loads, it took me about a week and a half to understand them. Do you mind if I explain them to everybody here? Yeah, go for it. So flash loads have been used to basically kind of front-run people are using decentralized exchanges or any decentralized protocol.
to exchange assets between different tokens or basically exchange of assets. The way it works, the way I couldn't understand this, if you think it's complex, it's so complex, I can't even wrap my head around it, but I invented a analogy for it. Basic wanted
is you can within a transaction, you can go to a curve protocol and you can get a loan for the duration of a contract for a very small amount of money. So you can go and borrow a million USDC, like 15 bucks or something, because you're only using it for 30 seconds. So I like to explain that as you can go into a
bank and they can give you a million dollars but as soon as you walk to the door they go, "Uh-uh." And you're like, "What?" And you're like, "Yeah, you can't leave with it." Oh, so I've got to give it back. They're like, "Yup, you can use the million dollars in the bank, but you can't walk out of the bank with a million dollars." It's like,#
dollars and you can buy up, I increase the price of an asset within the same transaction or you can dump all of that asset on the open market and drive the price down as someone is doing a transaction. So they might look and see, I don't know, like
chain link $11 and then you buy a little chain link as a buy in it and it shoots up to $13 and you make the difference on that within the duration of the transaction and maybe you make $300,000 or something and you can pay your $15 from borrowing that million dollars to make the
most of that situation. Someone did that recent term, the whole USDC debacle a couple of days ago and someone tried to swap, I say try because they failed, two million USDC and had caught 15 cents because it was absolutely brutal. So I presume using the same method.
Yeah, that's wild. M-E-V and Flash loans are kind of like an emergent property of like consensus slippage. And I think I don't think it's ethical personally. I think it'll be, I think it's a bug, not a feature of
of consensus and I think it'll be coded out within the next two years. I don't understand. It is like there was the mist exchange and that had people aren't mistokens by running private validators and therefore the front runners couldn't front run transaction.
And then I heard Miss Scott bought up and integrated into Unisport, but then I hear this guy's up in $2 million gets done over. So I don't know what happened there. I heard that Unisport had integrated kind of miss people, a pool of people that will run a transaction privately.
and then commit it so it can't get front run. And it was just like an option, it was like a check box in Uniswap. But I don't know what happened with that. I thought that was going to become the default way of transactions making their way through Uniswap. Right. And you have CalSwap in a couple of other things. The one transaction I talked about in particular was
routed on Kiber Network and it could be as simple as somebody ran a bot and had a miscalculation. Like was reading one contract and applied it to another contract and you know that's it. I mean it's this is like high risk Kiber word stuff right so it's like he went to try to know
MEV, Flashloin and Lost 2 Millie. So, you know, in health and wealth, like you make a mistake and somebody is there to eat up your alpha in a heartbeat. And, you know, to be really honest, most chains in getting
back to grants a little bit, they don't care about this. We've tried to go and sell MVV protection to chains, and they're like, nah, not our problem, let the dApps handle it. I thought it was very interesting. There's not been really one chain that has been like, hey, we
We really want external companies to come in and help with MVProtection. We do work with meter Recently we sign them up. We're just getting started with them meter chain has MVProtection through its its pseudo stable coin so the gas is used is
as soon as stable and then they use a timestamped mechanism to timestamp the transactions as they go to the mempool and as their timestamped and received by the mempool effectively, the mempool then orders in the same order of operation.
M-E-V in the flash loans don't make any sense at all, right? So that's something that they built into their consensus algorithm to effectively like stop out flash loans and M-E-V. It's pretty brilliant. And you know, there's pros and cons to that. You're when you kind of have like a pseudo stable gas token,
and your time stamp in MV, it's not as much of an open market and gas can kind of be a little bit more manipulated long-term and that's why Ethereum didn't go that direction. But functionally, you know,
It's working so far. There's pros and cons to everything. I think consensus slippage is something that will eventually be figured out. There's some alpha in there right now, but I think it'll eventually be coded out as a bug.
Um, let's see, Rebecca, any, any, any grand, you know, tidbits or, or super helpful things from your side that like we haven't covered? I mean, there's so much to cover, but um, the grants are there, you know, like in just, it just takes time, um, but I was just saying, you know, like,
If you guys head down building, submit a location and offer growth and see how we can store you out and match with the grants program. It is a big heavily lift to apply for every single one or higher grants and a person who applies for grants for you.
things that you need to consider to get a grant. Because sometimes you just haven't built a product that they would prefer to give a grant to. But in a higher scale, I would say just being really specific how you're going to drive user acquisition to your chain to basically drive
the active wallets on that chain, it's the greatest metric that you can provide to the chain to make the decision. And just I would say also a very obvious I guess tip but definitely want to voice it out whenever you pitch to a chain or anyone to be honest please make it really easy for them to make a decision meaning like don't send
like really big stuff or like presentations and if they didn't ask for it, be very concise like what are you building, what solution you bring to the web3 industry or to the users and just be very explicit what kind of support you want to like don't put it on a chain to figure out how to support you. That's
just very easy business advice I would say in general, but just be clear on how you use for the industry. 100% I'll give an anecdote and I'll try not to release names, but there's a couple of really, really popular dexes and money markets out there that
You know, here's the tale of two stories. We get the people that we want to go multi-chain on the phone and one company goes, "Well, we're developers at our core. We can develop anything you want. What is it that you want us to develop?" And I'm like, "Well, you have a money market. You're a money market." And they go, "Yeah, I
We don't know how much it's going to be. We may need 25K, we may need 100K, and probably like potentially like $250,000 or liquidity loan to get started, to start the flywheel. But tell us what we want to build. We'll put a proposal together.
will build whatever you want. And then another money market comes in and goes, this is what we do as a living. We need one million dollar loan for one year. We will return all of your assets back after one year and we will effectively build your money market. And
We can launch it in two months and we will have these different marketing partners. We have these different PR partners. This is our plan on month three or four. We should be at 10 million TVL based upon trajectories, trajectory and past experience. And here's the four different past
experiences that we have and here's how we've got there and all we need from you to do this is a $1 million loan zero interest will pass it back to you at the end of the year and you will have $10 million TVL money market on your chain. So those are the tail of two different top money markets that are on these different
different chains. One is like, well, you can build whatever you want. One took the decision making process and had an offer package ready to go right out of the basis. And the one that has an offer ready to go will get funded every time over the one that's kind of like scouting for, you know,
and trying to figure out how much revenue they can give from development. And that's the other thing too. It's like these chains, they don't want to manage projects. Like they don't, they're core team and their development team. It's fundamentally there to build the blockchain, not to manage other dApps. So when you, as a
a project come into a chain, you have to think about, okay, what is going to be my technical debt, technical maintenance of maintaining this chain and price that into the conversation. It's like, sure, it's going to take us X to go multi-chain and it's going to take us X a year to maintain. And if you have that in a
like box stop and like this is what it's going to take to build this is like proof that we've done something like this before this is what it's going to cost us a year to maintain if we don't hit these numbers based upon your users and user growth we are going to be requesting a grant to back up that price most of the times the ecosystems will then say yes
and agree to that. If you have your numbers in line of exactly what you're going to do with the funding, how you're going to utilize it and take the risk. And so what the chains are looking to do is subsidize that risk, not like subsidize your business, but subsidize the risk of going multi-chain and subsidize and give you
the first bump that you need in revenue to reduce that risk from the business side of things. And I would say one of the last things I got to wrap up, go to another call here is that most crypto projects are projects in businesses, but if you come to an ecosystem
system as a business and have a business plan, you don't need a big giant business plan. But if you have your stuff together and not just some random builder, the ecosystems are going to recognize that right away and you're going to be a cut above the rest in terms of have your offer together, have
you know, where your expenses are going to go, what exactly you're going to build, make it easy for them to say, "Hey, I want to come to your chain, I want to build here." But here's how I'm going to de-risk it. And those projects get grants way more often than just tell me what you want me to do.
But also on this now, oh, yeah, sorry, I'm just gonna say I don't know if this helps guys. I've had a problem with this in the past, but it might help you run it running spaces is when you run a space there's an option to click topics and
And in the what's hot section, there's loads of like NFTs, crypto, Bitcoin, whatever, you know, like loads of tags there that then put this space in that stream of spaces in that industry as it were. And it might help us.
Yeah, we've started doing that and it helps getting people in. I just thought I'd mention that. Thank you. I'm going to check. Brian, do you know if it's going to be a blocker for ads then? Even if you're in the category. Yeah, sure. It's still right. Okay. Okay. Yeah, definitely. I don't know.
sure. Yeah, that's good feedback. Yeah, I mean, one last note, yeah, I think it's just a really good advice in general for people in personal or professional lives, make it easier for other people to make a decision if you're asking for something. I think it's a good place to wrap up. We're going to do this more tips and bits how to apply how
together grand next week was do another topic grand but yeah thank you guys so much let's wrap it up we have things to do I know you guys also in the busy building so yeah let's jump into work bye bye guys thank you so much for everybody for coming cool cheers guys cheers