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Updates from the Lab: Cross-chain DeFi with Osmosis & Polaris 🧪
Recorded: June 10, 2025 Duration: 1:17:31Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent Twitter space, the Polaris team discussed significant updates in the Cosmos ecosystem, including new integrations, monetization strategies, and the growing demand for privacy solutions. The conversation highlighted trends in user engagement and the importance of seamless experiences in driving growth within the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. hello hello and you hear me
here you latin clee nice nice i like this uh max guy max gotzler's profile is that a
cold plunge dude gotta get a cold plunge, dude?
Gotta get those cold plunge gains in.
Alright, so we gotta wait on Saeed and Sunny to join. I think Dave is recovering from a flight, so he won't be joining.
That's right. Sending out messages now and gathering the troops all right sounds good
there he is oh when did sunny change his profile photo
it's uh i think uh trendy made it for me it's like it's like my bad scientist with like a
polaris oh yeah i know that question is, when did it change?
Oh, I don't know.
It was like a few months.
A couple months.
Nice.
Sayed, good to see you.
I see your name on Twitter changed.
So you're is that you're like proper like on paperwork name?
No, that is my middle name.
Oh, that's a search engine optimization name.
Exactly.
Oh, I see.
That's pretty bad for SEO.
True, true.
We've got a Crypto Tony with a request.
Is this one?
David, should we just add them up?
See what he see what Crypto Tony has to say.
Just brought Tony up.
Tony, how's it going?
Hello, everyone.
Yeah, all good.
How are you guys?
Good.
We usually do guest hopping up at the end, but if you have something for the beginning of Twitter space, feel free to drop it here.
If not, we will proceed we'll definitely try to leave some time for questions at the end too
all right well we'll kick off uh sunny say where are you guys at right now where in the world are you guys at? I'm in Florida right now.
I'm actually on vacation this week, but hopped on for this tour space.
Are you flying down there?
I am sailing.
I'm learning to sail this week.
What kind of sailing?
A small keel boat.
I haven't started yet.
You should go to Polaris Star on the sailboat.
Okay.
I got a to Polaris Star on the sailboat. Okay. Oh, I got like big Polaris.
Like the sails should have like big,
like one, you know,
the main sails should have like an Osmo logo
and then like the, you know,
the gyps should have like a Polaris logo.
And then the boat itself should be in like Osmos' theme,
like a vase itself.
And then the sail can be the polaris all right anyways some
old cosmos lore there i think uh dokia at some point funded like a sale like there's like uh
you know some sailing competition uh and there was like a boat a ship with like uh cosmos atom sales
oh here's a good question out of all the teams in the Cosmos,
who do you think would win a sailboat race?
Like, if they sent a spokesperson from each team,
who would it be?
And then the team members are like the ones prepping
the sailing stuff for the sailor.
I can't remember which one,
but I feel one of the Stride founders told me
he used to sail a lot when he was young.
So I feel probably that.
I see.
I see.
I think I took one of those cloth banners from Cosmoverse
and I have it in my closet
and that could be used as like a sail.
All right.
Anyways, Saeed, how are you doing?
Where are you at good i didn't get to hang out with you in
denver last week but i know i know sad but hey back on the east coast in dc right now a whole
lot less eventful though i'm not i'm not sailing around the world but i got in a couple of good
climbs last week so feeling very nice very nice all right well let's uh let's
hop into it so i think maybe some cosmos news is always worth talking about first stargaze put out
a tweet i think it was yesterday um sunny what are your thoughts on the stargaze tweet and you know
the cosmos hub slash stargaze interaction that ended up not being an interaction um quite honestly i haven't been paying too much
attention uh i saw that the merger like or the acquisition or didn't go through and like um i
don't know probably some back room backdoor stuff that i'm not really privy to but uh yeah i don't really know the details
i feel like uh one you know like uh the first chain merger that could have been is like one of
the most difficult things to like get through especially when it's like a governance slash
community thing because not only you know it's not like it's not like a shareholder with like
stocks right it's like um you know the
people at the top make the decision and just goes through like the community is actually incredibly
vocal uh especially even the stargaze community right so like in that case it's like how do you
also get all these people on board um so yeah i think uh you know it's well that doesn't seem to
be what happened here right like it never actually went to the community.
There was no vote or anything.
It just seems to have been something back the room that caused, like, to shut, like, not go through, right?
Maybe, I suppose.
But, well, I did have a very long call with one of the team members yesterday because he just wanted to chat about, like, what's going on.
Nothing, nothing with, you know, Osmos ismosis just like you know we're good friends and he was like kind
of like looping me in on things and um i think yeah it was just very difficult to do and also
like disagreements but anyways um let's let's hop into uh polaris saeed since our last time on
updates from the lab what's been going on with Polaris?
Lots of new developments, some new integrations,
new design stuff has come out.
Give us all of it.
Yeah, lots happening and lots ahead.
Maybe as a quick recap,
the current version of Polaris is the foundation.
It's for stress testing.
We are unlocking new ecosystems, it seems like, every week. So the team is always foundation. It's for stress testing. We are unlocking new ecosystems.
It seems like every week, right?
So the team is always shipping.
And we've even got the new Harry,
new QA guy who's been crushing it too.
So like we should even talk about that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
But maybe we can start with the juicier update.
For the many of you who are struggling to on and off board from hype
and are curious about hyperliquid, hyper EVM stuff,
there's a lot that's cooking.
I think we did a quiet update around a very soft release yesterday or last week.
There's still some things being optimized,
but hopefully this is the first of
many, many, many scenarios in which Polaris does stick true to its vision of all tokens on all
networks. So stay tuned for everyone who's excited about hype and all the HyperEVM stuff.
I think the team is aiming to continue polishing things up and it should be fully functional
throughout the week, maybe end of this week or early the next.
And integrations and just asset support is again, a foundation.
So for anyone who's curious, definitely throw a thumbs up or drop a comment.
We're unlocking early access to a lot of the upcoming features for some of our power users.
And we did have like six, seven, eight people we caught up with last week.
So if you wanted to talk to our amazing designer, he's literally on calls,
cashing up with every single one of you, myself included.
And we're sharing early previews of things.
So the many requests that are coming through, if you all are curious,
the top request is, as expected, we need a mobile app.
And most of us are hanging out on mobile way more often than we are on desktop.
I mean, I was even out last week running around Denver,
and I think I would have been on Polaris 20 times more often if I had it on my phone.
I was trying to stay off my laptop.
And so mobile is in the works were the two really big things we want to reinvent.
Or I guess like the future of Polaris I'm super excited for is one that Trendy had mentioned
is the dream where you could start your
day with a cup of coffee and Polaris.
Like Polaris is the start of your day.
Polaris is the end of your day.
Start your day with stressful trading and coffee.
Well, no, no, no.
Start your day with way less stress and anxiety because Polaris is there is like
you're beyond just a trading tool.
It's like
your intelligent guide right it's there's so much more your newspaper exactly way better way better
than just like a lifeless stream of of news I mean if any of you are using Polaris you'll see
there's like a little like hint at intelligent insights coming soon. We should be able to look at your whole portfolio
and know what the highest impact updates are for you
that you should be aware of.
If something is pumping or dumping,
if there's a major news event or update
that pertains to an asset you hold,
and potentially even assets you might be interested in.
I think nobody has really reinvented CoinGecko and CoinMarketCap in so long,
and there's an absolute ton of AI scaffolding that everyone is probably already kind of using
if you're on chat GPT thinking about how you're navigating things.
But yeah, all of that will power a much more useful and meaningful version of Polaris.
So if you want to just trade and swap things on the fly,
hopefully that's already up and running from all of you today
and ecosystems are being added week over week.
But all of the other things that will make Polaris meaningful
and part of your life are around the corner, in the works,
and we're sharing early previews with anyone who's interested.
And so if you're curious, if you want to see what it's looking like,
if you want to even give us feedback, let's definitely catch up.
You know, speaking of mobile from maybe like two minutes ago,
you did go on a nice little beautiful rant.
So I didn't want to cut you off. But Apple yesterday did their little WWDC thing, whatever the abbreviation they use for it.
And they mentioned something about like dev work for Apple mobile apps is like going to completely change.
I think it felt like they were shooting at React Native or something.
Did you guys see this?
I was wondering what thoughts you guys have around this
with developing Polaris Mobile.
I don't know if I have thoughts
specific to that, but I feel like I've been
looking way more at all the
ridiculous liquid glass
UI updates that
I think Steve Johnson would be like rolling around in his grave
looking at. I imagine we're not doing any of that for Polaris, just as a heads up. Hopefully folks
are enjoying the new Polaris design language with like the Explorer theme. I think at some point we had called our aesthetic like a vintage safari chic
which is like reminiscent of the old national like not national geographics like the banana
republic magazines um but uh yeah i can't say i've been in as in tune or following along with
like uh the dev side of what apple's released but no liquid glass coming to Polaris anytime soon.
I feel like their liquid glass stuff is just because there's no actual hardware changes,
and they just want to label something almost sounding like a hardware change,
like liquid glass, but it's really just design, right?
It did have some ties to the Vision Pro UI that they were pushing, which didn't land.
But if any of you have seen it, it's extremely unusable.
Like the usability is actually just really, really bad.
What about Polaris on the Vision Pro?
I mean, I don't know if we have very much product market fit for adoption, sadly, at
least not right now.
I think maybe in the future, I would hope so in the future.
I know Sunny and I are both bullish on the future of not necessarily the Vision Pro,
but the user experience that it does unlock.
Yeah, yeah.
I feel like any trading company that has 50 screens up,
the Vision Pro is the move for these teams.
Yeah.
Speaking of branding from earlier,
I actually want to talk to David about some of the branding stuff.
I know David's been firing off lately with like great branded memes and kind
of kind of want to like ask how do you get the inspiration for these great memes all the the
spider-man memes the uh what's the guy uh what's his name will ferrell with the uh that like that
like fashion design movie memes these are all great and i think they've been getting such good
traction you know this is just my first time working with an actual design agency
instead of trying to, you know, poke around on Photoshop and Canva
and MidJourney and stuff myself.
So it's just been a breath of fresh air, and they're crushing it.
Working as closely as I can with them to make sure that things are both on brand as well as entertaining
and just making content that's actually worth reading and will catch people's eyes.
And they've been doing an excellent job so far.
I think they may have been involved in some previous Cosmos branding efforts.
Someone can correct me on that, but yeah, working with them has just been great. And I think the Polaris social media accounts and graphics and brand assets and everything's
just coming together beautifully. So for what that part's worth, in addition to what I think
is becoming a really excellent product and better and better each day, we're keeping up with the
visual side as well.
So hopefully we can provide a really excellent user interface and user experience,
as well as just have really lovely graphics and collateral that make you
feel like you're part of the Polaris world.
I actually think maybe one thing that we've actually never done is,
like, have we ever reached out to community members or slash teams and ask
for like feedback on the mark or like the branding style or even like the memes that we're putting
out because because i feel like other teams or not just teams but like uh retail that loves to see
certain types of memes feeding us ideas would be really good um i know trendy and the mad
scientists do this to a degree, but beyond
them, I feel like we don't actually engage for meme ideas. And now, of course, we do for all
other ideas, like product feedback and stuff. But I think teams underutilize the community when it
comes to marketing ideas. On that note, in case anyone didn't see, we are running a fun little contest right now for you to design the new profile picture for the Osmosis Twitter.
Yeah, but I already won that competition, didn't I?
Yeah, but you're part of the team.
Obviously the best, but you're part of the team.
So, can't make that work. So far, I'm getting a fair amount of AI-generated images, which some of them look great, but I am digging the ones that are more clearly handmade, too.
Like one came in from Kudo from Mad Scientist, nice pixel art style.
So, yeah, hopefully more submissions come in.
Excited to see them.
And on the branding side, what I will say is that i get a lot of feedback
good and bad uh so some people will uh you know say that the content isn't hitting or
things like that and then sometimes i'll get really nice messages so you know just kind of
what what are the things that people have disliked um people everybody has different tastes so i won't go into
specifics and things like that but i think uh sometimes we get good feedback sometimes we
get different feedback but so far for polaris it's been really all positive and i think people
really like how kind of serene and calming it feels definitely a contrast to what we often see
yeah i like it too it's a it's a good contrast with osmosis type of content which is you know
both are good in their own ways uh but it is very like whenever i'm on my timeline and i see
something that's polaris it's very obvious that it's polaris and then i see sometimes i see like
a different team do something in the style of playersaris. I'm like, wait a minute, like, that's not your branding.
Now, of course, it's not like, you know, we don't own that style.
But it is, like, I have associated that type of style with Polaris.
Now, when someone else takes it, it feels like it's theft, which it's not.
But it feels that way.
feels that way.
Yeah, things are definitely changing.
Yeah, things are definitely changing.
It's harder to retain kind of your rights
or copyrights to visual images.
Everyone's just can so easily remix it
using any variety of tools nowadays.
Been interesting to see.
So something else with Polaris
that I wanted to talk to Sunny about,
well, actually I wanted to talk to Dave about,
but Dave couldn't make it today.
It's Polaris and privacy.
And, you know, given, actually, I think today, Nomada, they like, you know, they went relatively more public with their new app, Namadio,
which is a play on an armadillo that is like a shielded animal with Namada's shielded assets.
First, I feel like people should ask, what is the difference between Namada and Penumbra?
Do you know this answer, Sunny? Or is this like a Dave question?
They are somewhat similar.
are somewhat similar uh i think namada so penumbra have done a little bit more on the privacy
uh like client side side um the other thing is number is it has a dex built in while namada
kind of focuses more on like just being a shielded pool and then allowing actions happen over idc so
instead of having their own native decks they can
they just focus on like oh let's just execute trades against osmosis and the native decks on
penumbra is that just like it's all private trading like not just like the type of private
like you don't want people to see your alpha but like the trades themselves are are private from
end to end uh they still have a public book what they do is let's say there's like
okay let's say there's one let's say you're you're doing a trade from
uh adam to osmo right like on penumbra you won't be able to know that who made that trade you'll
see that a trade happened but more interestingly let's say like five people
are all at the same block just happen to all be doing a trade of atom to osmo let's say
let's say three people are doing it one person is doing three atom one person is doing two atom
one person's doing one atom all you'll see is that six atom got swapped to osmo so basically and and
then so that's kind of nice because the more people are
doing the same trade in the same block it's kind of adding more privacy for everyone right but this
also means like if there aren't that many people doing it then it's you just it's only one person
but no one would ever know it's only one person right so like it could be 10 out right and it
could be one person or 10 people you wouldn't know if it's if if it's one or ten true that's right i see but does this
is this like was this actually ever a necessary step for penumbra so the reason i asked would be
like couldn't you just go through namada or penumbra with let's say uh 10 atom and then um you you
shield it so now it's private and then you put put it into a brand new Atom wallet, Cosmos wallet, and then you go back
to Osmosis and trade.
So that wallet has no history because it already ran through Namada or Penumbra, right?
So they put all this time into a DEX when really the only thing that people care about
is that that address is totally private and history is unknown.
And then they didn't have to spend a year on the DEX you know has no volume and and they could have focused on other efforts potentially
right so I mean yeah that's well this is kind of basically then what the
Nomada strategy is is don't focus on the decks and just focus on uh yeah well basically exactly
what you just said yeah so so like shouldn't like, aside from Penumbra and Namada,
are there any other teams
in the entire industry
that actually are doing
what they're doing?
Because I feel like people
would be way more excited about this.
And I've seen zero excitement
besides, like, myself.
There's an old, like, old OG team on Ethereum called Aztec. Solana has some confidential
Solana has some confidential token stuff that they've built into the...
But it's really not that useful, actually.
And so, not really.
There's actually very few people doing it.
And part of the problem is that the UX is not that great.
And so that's kind of what we're trying to do with Polaris, which is like...
Well, even like...
I mean, Penumbra actually has some...
Penumbra and Nomada both have some great packs.
I actually haven't tried Nomata's new app,
but with Penumbra, right, like it's-
I thought Penumbra was terrible.
I literally don't know how to use it.
I have $250 in there from the airdrop.
I don't know how to get it out.
And it's just been sitting there.
I told Dave, if he could figure it out,
I would just give it to him
so he could get a new backpack.
But currently, you know, uh we both couldn't get in
and there's like some like connecting issue um and like you have to like load sync with the server
or something like that i don't i don't really understand it yeah so i mean what we're trying
to do right now with polaris is like build an integration for one of these uh and make it so it's very easy to hold any portfolio asset in crypto in a very privacy
preserving way, but giving you a lot of the UX of Polaris.
Not to toot our own horn too much, but I think Polaris has really good UX for crypto when
it comes to crypto trading apps
and so how can we bring the privacy functionality but into this like really seamless ux yeah well
you're taking my uh next segue that was the whole point of bringing up the number is to
lead it into a polaris discussion so yeah like um maybe we get back on that and say like how difficult is that to do and
like would we would we want to use uh like a team's product like namada and bake it straight into
players or would we want to build it ourselves so that we're the ones that get to like reap more
profits off of it but like by we i mean the entire you know uh stakeholder base
but um or or it bakes into osmosis and then polaris uses osmosis that already has an amount
of wrapping it um i think our strategy right now is we're just like hey i mean the two teams that
have already done like a lot of really good work on the underlying tech. Let's focus on like taking it to market.
Right.
Instead of us spending like just redoing a lot of work, right.
Let's focus on how do we make the UX really good.
And then if there's like, if we find that this actually has a lot of like.
Product market fit.
And like, this is like a big selling factor of Polaris.
We might build our own version, but because like, there's also like ways I
think we have ideas of how to improve upon the designs that have been built thus far.
Right.
But it's like, you know, right now let's focus on getting it in the hands of users
and easy to use, and then we can decide, okay, is this something we want to verticalize or not?
use and then we can decide okay is this something we want to verticalize or not
yeah because i feel like is it possible that privacy just has been marketed very well and
a lot i was talking to awa from the namada team and i feel like a lot of privacy teams uh and i'm
not specifically saying this about namada but I think like privacy people in general, when they talk about privacy and marketing it, like they use things that don't really speak to people.
And for example, one of them is like a shielded pool. And when you, when people in DeFi hear the
word pool, there is a very specific type of thing that they, they vision, like that pops into the
head. And it's like a liquidity pool it's it's
your generic traditional pool and of course it could be a v2 pool a v3 pool but they envision
something that is held in a type of pool whereas a shielded pool doesn't actually like like it's
it's a confusing word because you're like what does this actually mean like is there a pool with
a lot of shielded assets in it
that everyone shares?
Or do I own this pool exclusively myself?
Or is it actually even a pool?
And I was talking to Awa about this.
She's like, oh, like, I see the problem.
I see, like, why you're a little confused.
And I think it's like, because it also comes from, like,
I think the privacy, like, world
where they use these certain words
and then they think it's normal. It's's like if we go talk about a liquidity pool in like uh in the real world and
you know you're talking to some person that's in you know maybe works at fidelity or something
they're gonna have no idea what a liquidity pool is but to us it's just like the most normal thing
or you call something like a centralized exchange you you abbreviate a sex or a dex.
I feel like there's the same separation with privacy.
And maybe this kind of translates
to the marketing of privacy.
It's just like not marketed very well
because I swear if it was just marketed well,
the whole industry would be like,
oh shit, like there's no reason I shouldn't be using it.
And not even for the sake of like hiding stuff. It's, it's just like good measures to kind of start fresh, like, you know,
that James Wynn guy in hyper liquid. Now, everyone can track his history from $200 up to $100 million.
Now, he might be a special case where he actually wants this, he loves the fame, or the attention.
But I feel like most people wouldn't actually want to show
their entire history of growth or capitulation. So going into Nomada, starting fresh and then
doing it again seems like a logical thing. And this is how I feel as well. But I don't know,
how do you feel about privacy teams and privacy teams and their marketing and I've maybe the failure of of privacy to like grow as like a like a super desirable thing yeah
I think there's a couple of different yeah one is definitely the marketing that you mentioned like I
think it's like not very or I don't know like you look at like all the privacy like stuff in crypto like you know tornado cash zcash it all has this like
oh like anonymity kind of like focus right and it's just like feels like dark and shady and it's
like actually you know privacy should just be like the default like you know i feel like apple is a
company you know that actually uh markets privacy really well right like you uh and so i think you
know i think yeah crypto privacy companies just have not done a good job at marketing privacy as markets privacy really well, right? And so I think, you know,
I think, yeah, crypto privacy companies just have not done a good job
at marketing privacy.
Do you think these teams
should just rip off of Apple
and do the same?
Like if Apple is allowed
to market privacy properly
and has no backlash,
shouldn't teams just copy that playbook?
Yeah, exactly.
Then the other, I mean, two other things though, as well as one is like I mentioned the UX. Shouldn't teams just copy that playbook? Yeah, exactly.
Then the other... Two other things, though, as well.
One is, like I mentioned, the UX.
I think privacy is...
I would love to have privacy on my stuff, but it's like
if I'm using stuff on...
If I'm trading on Solana or I'm trading
on Osmosis,
it's just too much work
for me to take my
stuff to Nomada when I'm done right like but that's
why you would extrapolate that for the users right right and that's what we would do with
polaris is we'd make that process very seamless for the users they don't have to think about it
just happens automatically for them right um and then the third thing is i also think that a lot
of privacy teams tend to be a little over ideological on it when it's like
that you know okay it kind of depends on who is your threat model right like when you're when
you're building privacy well to be fair like you know for some people building privacy protocols
like their threat model might be like nation states right like you know i think that is who
zcash or monero is kind of like working against. But I
think, you know, and to do that, that requires a lot more technical, a lot more things you have to
do that degrade the UX massively. But I think like, you know, who's our threat model that our
users really care about is probably you don't want someone to any random person to just be able to go
into like a block explorer and track your like whole history right like you don't want you know i just realized it's like wouldn't wouldn't
every foundation team want to use this because people can so easily see like what every like
you know like you see uh even uh oh here's a good one um was it rama that was tweeting about jackal or something dumping their like 1800 1800
dollars an hour or or maybe it was 1800 a day or something which you know isn't like crazy it's
like you know you know like a team needs it needs to fund their team right but like but if if they
had just gone through namada and then and then reset their dcas then this would be totally private well
it would still be public that it's happening but you wouldn't know that it's the foundation team
without just assuming which you could probably assume based on the size but like you know for
for like larger ecosystems this you know might make sense yeah totally i mean i think every
you know every company every whale like know, there are companies even, right?
Like, when, not even for trading,
imagine for payments, right?
Like, let's say you're a McDonald's
and, you know, you want to pay your,
I don't know, potato supplier
who builds your fries, who makes your fries.
You know, Burger King should be watching the chain
and being like, oh, okay,
now we know exactly who their supplier is, much mcdonald's is paying like on a monthly basis to
their potato suppliers or whatever right it's like this is ridiculous no no company's actually going
to use the use this stuff when all their competitors can just watch exactly what they're
doing right and and now like in the usa landscape itself, this is probably less relevant because you don't have to cross borders.
But if you want to go cross borders, it's actually super relevant to remain private, not for like shady reasons.
But, you know, if you're going cross borders, like USDC is such a logical payment if you're doing cross borders.
So you don't have to send a shitty wire that takes like a $20 minimum always or like some kind of fee on your wire.
And then you have to like wait for the wire to actually go through. So it's not just paying
money. And let's say you do this 100 times a day to different vendors, but it also takes like
hours to go through. So you're paying money and you're waiting hours. Whereas USDC, you can just go,
you know, one second or less. And on top of that, you can be private if you wrap this with like
Nomada or something or, or Polaris in the future. And sometimes this is just like sending money from
your company in the USA to your own company in, let's say Turkey, but then your company in Turkey
distributes, right? so i think there are
a thousand real world use cases beyond just uh trading yeah that's an example that like uh you
know bridge which was acquired by stripe three months ago was like they give that example where
spacex uh uses them because spacex has suppliers and like contractors all over the world and they
use uh stable coins to pay oh now I will say that it is a little bit of a you know I think people
you know I was reading a Twitter thread from someone who works on like an actual like money
remittances protocol like not not not crypto money remittances and he's like all right you know
stable coins are interesting and stuff,
but like, you know, don't get
overexcited right now because,
you know, yes, I can send stablecoins
to someone in Turkey, but
you know, how do those people
in Turkey turn those stablecoins into
lira?
They don't want lira though, right?
Right, but well,
the thing is, okay,
at least for something like remittances, right?
Like, all right, you know, someone is, you know,
has family back home in the Philippines or something, right?
And they want to send money, you know, to their family
and they need to, like, their family.
So at the end of the day, yes, they want to,
part of the money they're trying to use to hold, right?
But, you know, at some point, even in Turkey, you know,
you have to convert to lira to actually spend at the market and buy food or whatever. I don't know if I agree with that sentiment.
He was actually showing that that was, well, I mean, part of the goal of having money is to
be able to spend it. Well, yeah, I agree with that sentiment. What I disagree with is that,
for example, I think a lot of sending money isn't the urgency of that same day you need the money.
When you send money to family overseas,
it's like they have their multiple week supply of money.
They can get by for a month.
What they need the money for,
and I'm not an expert here,
so like I could be so off,
but what they need the money for is like down the next month
or the month after that.
So they have all the time to go and, you know, convert that USDC.
They can take the day to go convert it.
Maybe it takes a few hours.
They go in person, they convert it in person,
and then they receive their local currency.
But, you know, like my family used to do this when we were much younger.
This guy was basically making the claim that, like,
actually this is actually way more expensive in fees than or like then using like
fx interchange uh and like his partner's like look stable coins can't he can definitely see
stable coins will get better than fx interchange right like uh there's way less middleman there
but his phone was just like right, it is actually more expensive.
Obviously, keep in mind, he's the CEO of a company.
So he's obviously talking his own book.
But yeah, his point was that it is actually more expensive.
You know, because you get, I send USDT to someone in the Philippines.
But, you know, Binance charges a lot of fees on turning that USVT into like
local currency.
Shouldn't that guy's like main business just be like immediately trying to capitalize on
like this hole?
Yeah, I think he is. I don't remember who this guy is. I just remember seeing a
quote on thread about it.
There's a lot of demand. And like even my friend who lives in Israel that works in like
cybersecurity and like does like wallet monitoring stuff. He's like, Yeah, like, even my friend who lives in Israel that works in like cybersecurity and like does like wallet monitoring stuff.
He's like, yeah, like, why do so many Turks?
This is like his wording.
He's like, bro, do you know how many Turks like just like work in USDT?
I'm like, yeah, I know.
He's like, he's like, why?
I'm like, well, the lira is not the greatest.
They don't want to hold the lira.
Yeah. want to hold a lira yeah so i mean but i think this is like yeah even like for pay for both payment and trading i think that's like this is uh one like privacy is gonna be like uber important
right right and the teams that make it the easiest because well is there like a, there's like a minimum viable privacy product, right? Where like, do people care about privacy beyond the minimum promise of, hey, it's not private? Like, as long as they offer something like Namada, any project offers something like namada beyond that seems unnecessary unless like i just
don't understand how like privacy is privacy once you can't see it you're you already got you know
you already have it it's not like you can get maybe maybe getting faster is the only relevant
i don't think no i i actually don't think that's it i think privacy is like a spectrum and like
it depends a lot on who your like threat model is right like uh think about this like okay even
something like one of the things that penumbra spent a lot of time working on was
a little complicated but it's like you know when you talk to an rpc like you're talking to someone's
node right and the point is that okay when you're talking to someone's node they can still be
tracking all your requests or like you know your wallet provider you know this is why penumbra you
have to like if you guys remember when penumbra first came out you had to like put in your own
like rpc endpoint and all this kind of stuff and it was just like uh it depends on who your
model is right if like if you're a cartel like a drug cartel that's like and your threat model
is the u.s government is trying to break your privacy you're gonna have a lot different privacy
needs than you know me who's just trying to like pay you for lunch and i just don't want everyone
to like see that or which is gonna be a different privacy need than you know the the mcdonald's
burger king example i gave you right there's So I think like the level of privacy needs
is a spectrum
and the UX does degrade
as you go farther up the spectrum.
And I think that the key is to find that sweet spot
that gives the privacy,
that's the level of privacy that's useful to the to users,
but still like, you know, has good UX.
I see because there are ways to like, actually, like decipher whose wallet is whose wallet,
you just have to spend way more time. Like, for example, if someone injects, let's say, like,
way more time like for example if someone injects let's say like like uh like 1269 420
tokens into nemata and then it pumps out 12 1269 419 on the other side this indicates that like
other side this indicates that like oh we don't know it doesn't show us but like clearly this
number is way too unique we can probably so like what they would do is like figure out timing yes
like like three minutes later this is probably the same person or these three wallets that combined
into this roughly similar number and are going into a direction that's relatively predictable
and relatively logical you're probably like that's probably the person and then they just
go hunt them down and then they force them to admit it right exactly all right and then there's
like levels of like network that's what i was saying like number of trying to like work on like
okay you know at least you know it's nice on penumbra you can't
tell like was it one person that swapped that 10 atom or was it 10 people like you mentioned
uh that that's one step in the right direction uh and then there's also network level attacks
right where it's like you know you can just scan at like the actual like internet communication
layer and you can see hey like requests to do this to touch this part of the state always comes
from this area so it might be the same person or there's all there's all there's left there's like
you know like i said depends on who your threat model is is uh you know are people going to be
doing that against me probably not are people going to be doing that against like cartels
probably but then it's like are cartels user? Or is it like traders and people doing remittances?
You just have to find what's sufficient for the users that you're looking for.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Do you think the cartels are actually looking into this stuff?
I mean, I feel like they must be, right?
I don't know the details, to be honest,
but from my understanding,
most of black markets are mostly operating in Monero.
I don't know how true that is.
But then the problem is you're still the token to token,
and at some point you have to move that token, right?
Whereas something like Namada, it's asset agnostic.
So it's like Zcash without it being Zcash, right?
Right, exactly.
So that's one of the nice things, right?
Namada, Penumbra, you can be like,
you can just do it with Tether.
Wait, what is the difference between Zcash and Monero?
Monero is actually built
using a pretty shitty privacy technique
from before zero- zero knowledge proofs were
like, really a real like production nice thing. So yeah, even though privacy is not that great.
It just actually has a lot of network. It's like, you know, everyone thought Bitcoin was
private. So you know, Silk Road is all running on Bitcoin, all this stuff. And then people
are like, actually, Bitcoin privacy is pretty shit um and then so then everyone switched to monero and i think i guess i don't know monero's
is good enough for the use cases but there's also like all sorts of things about like how monero is
like pretty bad but i guess it's just like too much network effects around monero now
i see i i think i do think that like you know if you can have Tether or
Bitcoin be used in privacy,
I don't think going
from a narrow to Zcash,
switching to a new currency is enough for the privacy
benefit, but switching back to Bitcoin
with better privacy, I think
that could be compelling. But you could do that with
Polaris and Osmosis and Alloyed Bitcoin
and Nomada all combined, right?
Yeah.
In my head, combining this technology with Polaris and Osmosis is one of the single most
exciting things in the entire industry. Not because it's just Osmosis and Polaris and it's
trading, but it's because the assets that you can have with Polaris and Slash Osmosis,
this basically means you can do all of this stuff with Bitcoin now.
You can have all your Bitcoin be private.
You can move your hybrid liquid portfolio through Osmosis, Polaris, Nomada,
and then go back and start fresh without anyone having eyes on you.
I feel like this is one of the most exciting things.
How would you rank it in terms of excitement like in like what would you come what would
you put up on that tier what else would you put up there um i don't know well what what do you mean
so like in my head this is the number i like i really think this is the number one most exciting thing that this industry
can offer moving forward what what i think put up in that in that category i think that like
the biggest thing to next thing to do in crypto is privacy and like i think whoever can build a
proper eventually like a fully private l1 where like the DeFi itself is running privately.
You know, even CCD talking about like, you know, oh, we can build a private perp stacks and stuff.
So I think that really it's going to come down to like, I think it's up to a level of like Solana, right?
Where it's like, okay, Solana like solved, built an L1 that solved a major problem,
which is the cost and the speed.
But now it's like, okay, the next big L1,
all the other L1s, all they're trying to catch up,
they're not going to be 10x better than Solana
on the speed or cost.
And so it's like, all right,
I think the next 10x improvement over existing l1s is going to be
like programmable privacy you mean you mean to say that no or monad isn't gonna defeat solana
uh i don't think so i'm just trolling um i hope to be proven wrong but i see things like privacy
and decentralization among other things as
things that people don't care about until they have to so like generally if
I'm using an app I don't care whether it's super decentralized or not as long
as it works I think I think I think people will care more than they realize
once the UX is that easy. For example,
wow, I can't, you know, like how many people listening to this Twitter space use incognito tabs, whether you're Googling some kind of gift that you don't want to see on your history and
you're like sending it to someone and like, or, or like maybe you're like a, like researching,
like a, like a surprise vacation for a girlfriend or something, and you don't want her to see that you Google this,
or, you know, obviously the most common use of incognito tabs.
So, like, you know, do people actually care about it that much
where they wouldn't use their own browsers if they didn't have it?
Probably not.
But the frequency at which people use it is probably every single day
if it's just a click away like if i could make my
stuff private with just one click and paying like two cents uh in in in in crypto yeah because it's
it's so easy it's just one click and two cents sure but if it's like a whole day's wait and i
still can't get through it yeah i give I give up entirely. I just forego privacy at that point.
That's fair. I actually do think people care.
I mean, I'm sure you wouldn't be happy to just share your credit card statement
and just tweet it out right now, right?
That's basically what you're doing on chain right now.
And then, like I said, I think it also matters massively to businesses like
you know more institutional users people are trading trading firms that are trading against
each other they don't want others to see their trading strategies uh a lot of people won't use
defi uh for their trading strategies because it's just it's just too easy to leak and that's um you know if if so if someone can solve that uh i think you bring a ton
of volume from major trading firms i think you're right about i mean it's yeah definitely depends
on the audience and i think you're right about once the user experience is that seamless then
it's just an obvious choice but i guess what prompted my initial thought was like i don't
care about decentralization until today because uh coinbase has always been fine for me but then
they locked my account in my phone now i need to find a you know decentralized alternative and
things like that so that doesn't happen again well yeah you did have a decentralized alternative that's true coincidentally you work at one
yeah the thing for me was that accepts uh noble usbc for on ramping or for like
off ramping so that was a winner i think the thing is you don't want to keep funds on Coinbase. You have to move through so they can't lock you up.
Yeah.
I think the average Joe,
which I consider myself to kind of be in many ways,
like needs that extra push or like needs an experience to help them
understand why that kind of feature is so important.
you know,
I think you're an above average Joe.
Thanks Aaron.
You're a sweetheart.
Well, cool.
We talked a lot about privacy in Polaris today.
I think that's a good place to open up the floor
and see if anyone has any comments.
And if not, we can see any last comments from Sunny, Saeed, David?
Yeah, I'll add one last note on the privacy thing.
I think that users want the path of least resistance, even before building Polaris.
A handful of people we talked to would do a lot of their cross chain swaps almost entirely in centralized experiences, right? Like, simple swap or just going to Coinbase. I think the reality is, no one cares about decentralization, or I shouldn't say no one, most people never care about privacy, decentralization, or self custody, the things that we know were generally good for us or better for us for
all the reasons including david getting locked out of coinbase but we're i don't even want to
say we're lazy we're just like people right we're sure everyone on chain today is like an early
adopter and we have to realize that everyone else we think we want to onboard and have
on chain if we want to even call it that in the future, shouldn't care about any of that. If, if privacy and decentralization and the benefits of self custody, all exist, they all I think we only make that happen if we build a really, really good, easy user experience. Because people just want the easiest thing. Again, I don't even want to call people lazy i don't think any of us are i don't think that's lazy it's just normal right we're
not trying to live your life you're trying to have an easy day you're not trying to like
like i want to reduce the stress of something so i can increase the stress of others so like i'd
rather not have to stress about you know like moving my my, crypto around, but I'd rather be able to focus
that bandwidth on like, I don't know, working harder at the gym or something.
Yeah. I think the winning product manages to not just ship a decentralized self-custody
privacy specific or focused thing. I think those things are part of the identity of a product,
but like Apple, Apple is an example example maybe talks a lot about privacy but
i bet you 99 of the people who own iphones don't have any clue what privacy is or how it applies
to them apple iphones are just the easiest to use things until maybe liquid glass now is the thing
but yeah i think that's that's actually all that matters. I do actually, from my end personally,
I don't think extreme decentralization matters.
I think a fair amount is relevant.
I don't think you need a validator set of 150
with all the tokens spread across all 150.
In my head, I'm okay with 50 or or even like 75, but I don't think
150 is kind of necessary, but I do think privacy is so important. Uh, and that, you know, that I
think if you can like put it in front of users and it's like a good UX, I think it just gets like,
if, if, if the, if the difference is like between trust wallet and Polaris and Polaris has privacy baked in with an extra three-second click,
I think you can take all of their users.
Now, luckily, Polaris, of course, can factor in TrustWallet,
so it's not really the greatest analogy.
But you kind of see what I'm saying.
If it's just so easy, then you can just take those users for the rest of time.
Yes.
We also have MadScientists and CitoZone up here. Any thoughts? All right. those users for the rest of time. Yes.
We also have MadScientists and CetoZone up here. Any thoughts?
Any questions?
What do we got?
Who first?
We haven't heard from CetoZone in maybe ever on here.
Hi guys, can you hear me?
Sefmos from Cedar Zone here.
Yo, what's up Sepp?
Oh, first of all Sepp Mos, your tweet from yesterday about the volume on Saga, you know,
I'm pretty sure that's just on a single asset and it's just like zero fees and you can just,
you know, might have been a little not organic yeah definitely
spicy dick that's why I posted it from my personal account and not from CitoZone
but yeah I wanted to push you guys a little bit like to see competition is
there and like yeah I think we generally take the stance of not taking the bait
like that I'll say I'll say it on a Twitter space, but I'm not going to tweet it from my account and call it what it was.
Yeah, but no idea what's going on in Saga.
I was surprised when I saw that statistic.
But anyway, let's talk about osmosis and Polaris.
And, like, I'm a big Polaris fan.
I switched over to Polaris as my default trading page and I really liked it and I'm somehow
super bullish and I would love to invest into Polaris or like put some skin in the game.
But for now I know the only way to invest is like buying Osmo token, but I'm not sure. Like currently, if I look at the data, our trading volume on osmosis, it's basically
like down for the majority of the year.
So I don't see increased volume coming from Polaris to osmosis.
So I wonder what the, yeah, your guys plan is there to increase volume on Osmosis or like how will these two products be linked to accrue any value for the Osmo token?
Because these days it seems that most of the focus of the Osmosis team goes into Polaris.
And I think that you guys, yeah, sooner or later, I mean, you're all big Osmo holders.
So yeah, what's the plan here um i mean osmo like
polaris will eventually rev share with osmo so uh like a portion of fees on polaris regardless of
whether it's from like on the osmosis decks or not will uh be used to like you know somehow go
to osmo holders whether through buybacks or something like that
um it just you know frankly right now the fees on the revenues from polaris are zero it's you know it's it's still you know back in startup mode again and so uh once like revenues and you know
are actually meaningful we'll start doing like yeah a bet on osmo is the is a bet on osmosis but it's
also a bet on the future of Polaris
and thanks for clarifying just like where will the revenue accruals from
Polaris come in as far as I understood it is that like most assets that you
trade on Polaris will be routed through
osmosis in the background but I mean if I do any Solana trades B&B hyper liquid
then I guess Solana osmosis is never being touched in the background and if you charge a extra swap fee on top that might yeah um shy away
users so yeah what do you think about that like i mean it might but i mean you know i think that's
the you know if we can build a good app that people like to use i think people can
will still be able to charge fees. I mean,
Uniswap charges fees on their front end and people still use the Uniswap front end a lot. Or Jupiter has fees on certain types of trades that you do on the Jupiter front end.
So yeah, I mean, I think, or even like MetaMask charges fees and MetaMask swaps. I think if you
build a good enough app and good enough UI,
you can charge at the interface layer, you can charge at the API layer,
you can charge potentially even for AUM once Polaris vaults are ready,
you can charge potentially on AUM on that,
whether it's by putting those into like productive usage via d5 you know once again this is why uh
we are not like committing right now to what is the rev share of like what revenue going to
osmo and stuff because frankly we don't know right now what is the revenues yet it just
we are very much focused on building a great product and getting users on polaris um
and then once once we actually see what are the revenue streams that make sense
that's when we can uh figure out okay this is how we're going to rev share it to osmo
okay it makes sense yeah yeah because initially i thought that with the alloy assets that you guys have for XRP, Doge, coins, and all the others, like the user can basically decide
from where it comes and which backend it will be used
in the background or will it be defaulted
that like most of the trades run through osmosis
if there is enough liquidity.
Nothing will play a crucial role.
I think like one of the risks of that thought process
is where if you force a user to take a certain flow and they don't like that flow, you lose that user.
But if you keep the user and you let them have whatever flow they want, their other flows can also still be routing through the routes that would actually benefit Osmosis.
routes that would actually benefit, you know, Osmosis.
And then also you don't know what their,
their future activity on players will be.
So you always want to capture those users.
And this is like MetaMask in the beginning, right?
Like they had nothing for how many years.
And then finally they're like, okay, it's time.
But they spent like, what was it?
Like five years building it or something and growing it
and growing their market share yeah yeah and thanks for again answering these like little
rough questions but i really like the direction that you guys are going with polaris to coming
like that front end aggregator where you can just trade all coins across all chains and UX is super smooth I like that you can connect all of your wallets
and yeah also as I said like the first place you should go to in the morning is
just Polaris you you come there you see like the brief update of what happened
over the last 24 hours.
And yeah, very cool.
Looking forward to all the other AI integrations and features that you're cooking.
And just one final question from my side, if I may.
I remember last basis you talked about your osmosis tokenomics and that there might be some changes underway.
So yeah, I wonder if there is any more clarity.
I think that's...
Cosmosis to economics.
Johnny and Dave are doing a lot more work on that one.
That's, I think, going to be after the next third inning,
which is in, like, what, 11 days or so.
But, yeah, that's still being ironed out.
But I think they're going to work on, you know,
things that we think will like pretty much address a lot of the things that
are being discussed. So I would ping,
well you could either ping Johnny directly or wait for them to put out the
posts on it.
Yeah.
Just so everyone knows we're always listening to what we're just listening and
ready for feedback and things like that.
And we're always, you know, generally pretty aware of things where we need to improve and
things like that.
But yeah, just keep it coming.
Thank you for the support.
And, you know, hard questions welcomed as well, of course.
So I appreciate everyone.
Mad Scientist, Zerk.
Jim, Jim.
Hope everybody's doing well.
Yeah, just wanted to grow y'all some flowers for building out Polaris.
Really love using the app.
I think I've been a tester since the early stages
and it's really improving quite nicely.
Lots of chains right now.
Very excited for the integration of Hyperliquid.
And I think that kind of touches upon the point
of get the users first, get the adoption first,
and afterwards when you turn on the fees,
it's going to be printing.
I use Phantom Wallet and I swap in there all the time and i
give them the percentage and metamask as well uh sometimes because i'm lazy but other times it is
the fastest way of doing things i'm not aware of any cross-chain bridge except i guess you know
if we're talking about ibc uh that has low fees they're all charging a cut, so why not pay Polaris that cut right now?
I'm looking forward to whenever you get that much adoption,
you can turn on the fees,
and then the rev share will come to the Osmo token holders.
So that's why we're very, very bullish on Polaris,
and you guys are doing a really, really good job at it.
Excited for the future.
So, yeah, keep up the great work.
Appreciate you, Zerk. And right back at you guys bad scientists are crushing it and we're excited to uh see where
you guys go so we just had another speaker join uh michael what do you got for us I'm not hearing anything so maybe he's not there
guess not
alright well I think we can cut it then
alright can I just jump in one more time I think we can cut it then. All right.
Can I just jump in one more time?
If it's possible, like one final question.
Anything for you, Seth Mos.
No, thanks, guys.
Like once a year that I'm live on this basis,
I have to get rid of all of my questions.
Thanks for having me and bearing with me.
I remember back in the days as like celestia
was harder than it's right now and like they promised to build out a big ecosystem lesson
still think that they're doing that i remember that you guys were talking about positioning
osmosis to capture like or become the main trading venue for all these celestial roll-up tokens
should they ever go live so yeah it's just still in the words especially now
with lazy bridging and they're somehow using IBC under the hood but they now
also announced the hyper hyper lanes partnership and partner ship so yeah what
are your plans there or has that been installed completely since
there hasn't been any progress on the celestial side of things uh no no we're actually very uh
closely in touch and working with the slushia teams um i mean still waiting on some like great tokens
uh problems the ecosystem that happened.
Then that many that have really moved the needle on stuff.
But yeah, I mean, we're working very closely with them.
So we'll be fans of a lot of some of the technical stuff they're doing around some new changes like the like some new like changes to
like how Comet works and IBC stuff so we might even be like we're considering
adopting some of those technical improvements as well
yeah that's good to hear and like just really final one, talking about DIA or Akash, all these Cosmos native tokens,
I always wonder why there isn't more volume on Cosmosis.
These are all Cosmos native tokens, you can trade them on Osmosis, you can send them over
to the native chains, take them directly there, but still 95 percent of their volume is held on
sexes so you have any explanation for that is it just because like the fees on osmosis are too high
or the slippage is too big it's probably not the fees or the slip it's just it's mostly like the
you know a lot of the trading teams um you know, they're just, they're not going to
bring their strategies to a public DEX, but they're also, you know, not going to deal with
one and a half second block times. They want, you know, they want instant executions, right?
And again, there's the UX experience of like, yeah, like, you know, the DEX is great for DeFi,
but at the end of the day, like there's still that battle of, okay, you still have to get it onto the blockchain.
And sometimes people just leave all their assets on centralized exchanges.
This is why, like, you know, an asset like Ripple, no one trades this in DeFi and they don't care about this because they've never needed it.
And, you know, why does my neighbor who is, you know, not like some rich person person, but he has 200 grand in Ripple,
is because he's a diehard Ripple zealot.
And they're just leaving all their assets on exchanges and trading on exchanges only.
So I think central exchanges in general just have this dominance that you still have to chip away at.
And DEXs have to chip away at with faster block times or faster execution.
Or somehow baking in privacy on alpha. and DEXs have to chip away at like with faster block times or faster execution or, you know,
somehow baking in, you know, privacy on alpha.
So Aaron's answer was much better than my suggestion, but I also think some of this comes from people sometimes just wanting exposure to the price action of a token more so than actually
wanting the utility of the token.
So I think that can be applied in some places like with Ripple, for example.
I don't really know what I would be doing with Ripple, but maybe I want exposure to its price action.
So I would just grab it on a centralized exchange, but who knows.
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
But what about all these stakeable tokens like a cash
yeah i mean you earn 10 yield on them so people just purely speculate on the price action
10 yield is not enough to be relevant when the cost of capital is probably much higher than 10
percent um and it's it's at minimum 10 because of the yield right so the cost of capital is probably much higher than 10%. And it's at minimum 10% because of the yield, right?
So the cost of capital is the staking yield
plus whatever else that people can earn when they're trading.
So this is like, you know, centralized exchanges dominate here
because it's just like, you know, the in and outs are way faster.
I think it's easy to forget that most of us here again, are early adopters and power users.
Uh, interestingly, even a lot of us, a lot of the people we've been talking to have stopped, like kind of dialed back a lot of their defy activity.
I know this sounds, this might sound crazy, but like a lot of people are just not staking things anymore.
They'll stake like a handful of assets they care about staking things anymore they'll stake like a handful of
assets they care about and that's it they've exited most of their other positions uh it's also
figured out that the reality is a lot of tokens are just down only right and that's a little
challenging so i think when the average person literally just wants exposure to an asset as to
hold a bag of it for a longer term bet on its price.
Like Aaron said, it's just the shortest path to success is going from your
fiat paycheck to DCAing in on a Robinhood, Coinbase, or even a Cash App
straight into any of those assets.
And it's just easiest on the fly, on mobile, on the go.
Yeah, Matt, scientists?
Yeah, I was going to direct this question at you
because I felt it was quite topical.
I mean, Cephmos is, I think, you know,
sees that not a lot of people getting involved in DeFi are not wanting to buy off DEXs.
And SEXs have been dominating this cycle, in my opinion, with things like Ripple moving and, I guess, Hyperliquid being a little more centralized as well.
So not as much care for decentralization unless, you know, you really, really need it and it happens.
So you on TikTok, trying to reach another crowd here, what would you say they care about?
Is this something that they want to be doing, going on chain?
Because I feel like that has been a struggle this cycle.
A lot of people just don't care about going on chain.
They want price exposure or perhaps buying a quick
meme within the phantom wallet then getting out and then that's it yeah that's a great question
and i i think that's actually a big part of uh some of our polaris philosophy as well right so
most users just want to most people people forget like crypto users most people just want to discover
an asset that will uh you know, for better
for worse, 10x their portfolio. Hopefully we're moving away from 1000x your portfolio overnight.
But a lot of these people want to discover an asset. They're like, even if you explain staking
to your friend next door, like that's a conversation you're not going to be able to distill down
into a 30-second video, which is where most people are consuming their content, learning
about things.
And the hope is that with Polaris, especially once we have mobile, which I think is critical,
we're not shouting from the rooftops that you're doing anything in DeFi.
We're also not shouting about the rooftops that you're doing anything in DeFi. We're also not like shouting about you being on chain.
These are all of those things will be here and applicable to all of us here today.
And hopefully we'll, of course, you know, Davids who've been rugged by Coinbase will be thrilled to use Polaris for self-custody.
but 99% of the people who
like I'm hoping I can onboard
will be able to onboard onto Polaris
via you know
the many many people who
bought memes and hold Bitcoin
and anything else who are on TikTok
reels and everything other than crypto Twitter
they just want to hold an asset
that's it and with Polaris
mobile will also
come Polaris vaults which we'll not talk about,
or maybe we won't even call them Volts. But the vision of not having 50 different wallets
and thinking, knowing what bridges are being used or what routes are being taken.
Polaris Mobile will mean you'll be able to install Polaris,
not have any wallet if you don't want one,
connect the wallets if you're one of us,
and just access any asset.
And hopefully, discovery is just juicy and good.
And the insights will hopefully hit on that.
Maybe not.
It's an experiment for us as well.
But the hope is that between discovery and AI-powered research,
if you land on a token page for hype right now,
you shouldn't get an SEO-optimized thesis that none of us in this call are going to read.
We're not reading their white paper.
We want a two-sentence update on literally what happened in the past 24, 48 hours.
That's like digestible, tells you if you should be bullish or not. The things that centralized
exchanges are doing well, right? Like if there's one takeaway here, I think it's that centralized
exchanges have been doing some things really, really well. And users don't care if it's
centralized or decentralized or anything. We need easy fiat on ramp. You need to be able to go from
your paycheck to crypto easily. You need to be able to go from your paycheck to crypto easily.
You need to be able to discover and understand if you should be like bullish or bearish easily.
And trade or invest in things easily.
So I think that like, again, like what we want is what's not necessarily going to grow the pie meaningfully.
And I think we all win if we do get these lovely elements
of privacy, decentralization, self-custody,
and none of those are the hero image or the cover photo
of what Polaris is for 99% of other users
that we all want to have on Polaris, Osmosis,
and what we care about is on chain.
Yeah, just to add a note on there, we definitely go back and forth a fair bit internally,
because there's, it's a juggling act to try to market a product like this to both crypto natives
or DeFi power users, and you know, just your average person
who's just getting started.
So it's an interesting balancing act
that we're going to have to figure out.
And I think leaning,
just learning from Saeed and everyone else here,
I'm starting to lean more and more
toward not showcasing the technical achievements
and really just showing more
about what it can do for you as a user.
So fun to see.
I think to get all of us bullish, hopefully,
is I know most of us here probably not on TikTok and Reels.
And it's totally okay if we're gonna be really loud
about the technical complexities on crypto Twitter.
I mean, Apple's really loud about privacy
on for this, for like Safari as a browser, right?
And even in all their marketing jargon, right, on their website,
they have all sorts of crazy words they've made up that showcase their products.
But just to keep everyone bullish, hopefully, right,
I did one video about early access to Polaris, and over 200 people,
like retail, retail people, were asking for early access to Polaris and like over 200 people, like retail, retail people were asking for early access.
The moment we have mobile, the moment we have, you know,
the wallet abstracted experience with vaults
and the ability to just download Polaris,
Fiat on ramp, buy whatever,
we'll go hopefully full blast
on all of those channels for distribution.
If we grow the pie, it's growing it for all of us instead of just like continuing to fight for users among one another.
So hopefully that's what's right ahead of us and hopefully the future for Polaris.
All right.
Well, this is one of our longer Twitter spaces.
Any more comments before we close out here?
Thanks, guys. I highly appreciate your answers.
And yeah, I'm rooting for Osmosis Polaris.
And yeah, keep it up.
Yeah, thanks for tuning in.
Thanks for hopping on.
And definitely stay tuned because Polaris is going to be the North Star.
Thanks for tuning in, folks.
We'll see you again soon.
See you guys.
