All right, let's get the invite up
Yeah, good. How's it going?
You're laughing, you know
Also, he's laughing because he knows that shit. He is a small talk. That's exactly why he's laughing
I'm doing well, Maria. How about yourself? What's that? What's the latest in the Ukraine war?
So a headline that Russia's starting to use
Some of the the tanks that had it they called them wasn't equal collectible tanks, but thanks from a museum
Thanks from back in I don't know who's world war two. Did you see that headline all source?
So I think I think you're talking about the t-34s I mean, I think that's absolute if that's the one that's not I don't I don't believe so
Yes, yes, yes that yes we have seen that but we've seen that
Actually last month is the first we saw they were deployed in her son in Russian copiers. Yeah, they've been pulling
I said that I wanted your spaces before we've been seeing that, you know
They're just running into trying to pull modern tanks
So they're having to go back way back in the day and they're very old storage to get tanks for the front
So yeah, we've been seeing that lately and does that show that they're struggling in the war not necessarily. I
Mean, I think it's showing that they're having a hard time equipping their forces
Yeah, I think that's it's it's definitely a problem. Would you rather be fighting a war with?
Tanks made during the Cold War in the 50s and 60s or would you rather be fighting takes made recently in the modern era?
I think that speaks for itself
So all source are you that so Mario was sending me into another, you know, a very dangerous place
Tornadoes this time, but that's where I'm headed here very shortly. So are you coming with me or no? Is it just me?
I'm not going anywhere. You don't want to go to the border. Come on, man
Bro, of course you I thought you got I thought you're referring to Ukraine
Nick, I don't know. I never you know, you never you never you never got back to me on that girl
It's a 20-hour drive so I'll we can actually drive you're gonna drive 20 hours I need to the audience I
Are you going to El Paso I'll go to Brownsville I'll go to El Paso and I'll go to Eagle Pass
I'm basically gonna drive that spot on the border
But I have to drive because I need an off-road vehicle that I can you know beat shit. So
And you know maybe it shot at or whatever, I don't know that's what I've been told
Muted Ali you had a hot mic. I just muted you and actually Ali are you at where you located now?
Ali are you there? Can you speak? I?
Know you're just getting into a car. I think she's where you want to be Nick just a heads up
So sorry, but she says she's a network correspondent. I think she's covering the border the border
Issue, so I think she's there now. So we'll give her the mic and good
Let's kick off the discussion. So Nick, maybe you can give us quick introduction since you're going there
What's all the worry about what's exactly happening tell us about title 42 title 8
And why it's suddenly cover it is suddenly dominating all the headlines
Okay, so I'll just give you a brief rundown here title 42 gave the United States government the ability to
Deny entry into the United States based on
Health factors on on risks of this was a covid
19 era policy. This was a Trump policy. There are people that argue that it was just a
way that the president could
Deny entry to people without going through Congress because obviously immigration in the United States has been a huge
Legal immigration has been a problem for decades now
And they sort of found a way around that to you know
Mitigate a little bit of the issues instead of just catching people and releasing them into the United States
Title 42 gave the government the ability to send them back to the country. Let me I want to simplify it Nick Nick
I want to simplify it even further. Okay, so if I'm an illegal immigrant, I'm crossing the border illegally into the US
Prior to covid so that's a prior to title 42. So I say four years ago five years ago
What would happen to me? So I'm trying to cross the board. I get caught
So under the Obama administration
Specifically what would happen is you would be caught by border patrol then released into the United States
You'd be given a summons and you'd have a court date
The problem is the amount of people that would show up to those court dates
Was very minimal because they were worried about being deported so they would end up in places like in sanctuary states like California
Those laws would not be enforced. So even if there was a warrant put out by the federal government
They would not be arrested by the state of California
Why why would they not be arrested? Why why what made California and other states sanctuary states? Like did they not follow the
The requirement of arresting those people to get some into court. That was required that was required by the
by the federal government
Correct. So the state of California, for example, and there are other states like this would take these
illegal immigrants into the state and basically say this is your refuge and
We will not comply with these orders to either deport you or turn you over to ice the
Immigrations and customs enforcement those would be that would be the agency the federal government agency that would take these people in and
Deport them at this point. So if they were to go to California, that was sort of safe harbor for them
And that is one of the biggest arguments among the right and the left right now
And what's the argument exactly? Can you just define it?
Well, the state of California, for example, this is sort of the leftist argument
That these people are just seeking
A humanitarian aid and that they're refugees and such and even though they jump the border illegally
You know, there's a lot of them are
As we've seen like ms-13 various gangs
That they still need help
They're seeking refuge and the right is saying these are a lot of these people are criminals
And they need to be either deported
Detained or go through the legal process rather than simply just get get free passage
To live in the united states as any other person that did it legally
Okay, and then what happened is title 42 came in?
During covid are these under the trump administration? Is that correct?
Correct, correct. And it was it gave the it gave health and human services the ability
To deny entry to the united states and actually send people back to the country they entered through
And so so essentially before covid if if I was an illegal immigrant tried to enter the u.s
And I got caught then I would
I would remain in the u.s
But I have to get to go to court and go through the legal process
But many people avoided that some went to sanctuary states that made it easier to avoid that
And then after title 42 that allowed the federal government to to to detain and send
Illegal immigrants back to the country they came from correct
due process that is argued by
Don't laugh saying that these are
Uh, this is what people are entitled to when they come over illegally
Okay, and last question I have and then we can kick off the discussion
Maybe go to all source afterwards see if there's any
Um any more context to add but
What's gonna happen now is we're moving away from back to from
The title 42 expires and we actually before you do that real quick. I just want to mention
Liza Dunn who is fantastic very smart on
Many topics she did she did just say that the claim is also in california that there is a need for farming
For illegal immigrants because people
Because americans do not want to do manual waivers such as that
So that is another argument by the state of california as to why
They allow illegal immigrants to stay in the country and seek sanctuary there
Okay, and then what's happening now is that title 42 is expiring and by the way, I want to
Ali is on stage. Ali welcome to the stage for the first time. We'll go to you shortly
Um, and what's happening now is title 42 is going back to title eight
Um, and if I get anything wrong do correct me nick which was prior to covid and that's what you know
The whole going through the legal process and they got a sanctuary stay
So we're going back to the to the process we had prior to title 42, correct?
Nick you're muted man. Uh, I I'd like to I'd like to put an alley on that one
Ah, well alie liza also i'd like more context on why
Why the yeah immigration is all over the headlines
What's going to happen when title eight takes?
So that is what the administration is really leaning on and is really using has said that they are using
But the reality is title only works if there is space for tension
And if there is an administration who wants to detain people right now
The the facility for closing left and right isa's closed in on several of their facilities
But then we have this processing facility would not be tension facilities
So what they're going to be doing is going to be processing these people very similarly to what?
The administration which nick was talking about we are going to see people processed and then given english to appear
Which is that court date? They what they do is link up with ice immigration wherever
Cell phones were directed to check in with ice on thursday's depending what they traveled over here
But they have a phone that they're only able to use to check in with ice and then they check in with ice at
Their destination wherever they're going and then they might not see a judge for two to five years
We've even seen some reporting of 10 years because this court backlog is so excessive
So that's what we're going to experience with title eight is more catch and release, but they will be documented
It will not be catch and turn back around to mexico without documentation
So these people are put into the system into what dhs secretary. Alejandro mayorkas has deemed quote removal proceedings
So that is what they're saying all of these folks that we're seeing on the streets of alpasso all of these
That were on the streets of palesville
They have entered into removal proceedings those folks with the manila envelopes. That's what is in there
Those are their notice to appear documents. Those are their processed documents from border patrol
And then again, they will go to their next
Adjustment, uh three gentlemen from this way
Welcome to salt lake city one is going to dallas and what's going on in arizona
And they can travel freely with those documents in the united states
Nick mentioned a lot of folks don't show up to that initial court appearance, which is true
We saw this under the trump administration did studies
Currently the biden administration has touted that people are are returning at a rate of around 90 percent
But what a lot of people have found is that's not necessarily the court date. They're appearing for it's the initial appearance
Which is that first interaction with ice so that is what we can expect when title eight
Really takes over and we no longer have title 42 in place
Thanks for that ali ali your connection is quite bad
I don't know if it's because of where you look at it, but it was very hard to hear a lot of what you said
Uh, but i'm it was okay to hear it, but it was very echoey and it's breaking up at certain parts
Just before we come back to you ali because we don't want some more information. Ian. I know this uh, topic is uh
Is you want to speak a bit about it? So i'd like to hear your thoughts first
And before that before even before you jump in
Sorry one quick question to liza because I know you brought you up when nick mentioned you liza and then we'll go to ian
liza just on the california
Um being a sanctuary state
Do you want to offer more context on this?
And like the the the if you can help us understand the leftist argument on why it would make sense for the illegal immigrants not to go through
The legal process and to have the opportunity to
To avoid the legal process in states like california
I can't necessarily entirely comment on why um illegal immigrants would want to avoid
Things in terms of the the the process of getting into california
but what I can comment is on is that there is a huge shortage of workers in agriculture and
So in 2018 there were 10.6 million immigrants
Um in california and they they've made up 27 percent of the population
Um, and california is a huge, um agricultural
They call it the salad bowl
of the united states or the world
Um and one in three workers in california is an immigrant and they really make up a huge part of the state's labor force
Um and it over 33 percent
This these migrant workers
Go back and forth between california sometimes texas as well and and um latin america
um, and some of them are documented and some of them aren't um, but they make up a vital part and i'm
To at the baseline. I want you just to understand that I am fundamentally against human trafficking
I'm fundamentally against the drug cartels and things like that. So
Those those issues I think are very valid and scary issues that we need to deal with
um, but there also needs to be some way for
Um people in the agriculture industry to be able to accommodate these folks because this is a question of food security
Well and mario to kind of color that in a little bit california is ranked number one
Uh in the in the u.s for agricultural cash receipts, uh, that's right
Yeah, they're ahead of iowa texas nebraska in illinois
Like so these the california makes up a very very large portion of agriculture in this country interesting. Yeah, that's right
Oh, no, i'm just listening, you know, i'll have something to say later
Yeah, and I would summon us to think that you don't give him the mic. He'll take the damn fucking mic. So that's
I'll take the damn mic. Yeah
I'll try to give you the mic so that you know, you can get everything out
Can I just give you the number so the california brings in over a hundred billion dollars in agricultural products each year
Uh in 2021 california generated around 51.3 billion dollars in agricultural cash receipts
So my question is I want to understand the argument why and if someone can help me understand the argument why?
Like if someone crosses the border illegally, i'm a big fan of immigration and and I hate borders in general
And I think countries should help each other. I'm like that i'm a big believer in utopia society a bit naive
No, just back to the autistic by kind of giving context to my question though, um, why would it make sense for invading my hotel room?
Why would it make sense for for someone if they cross the border illegally?
Logical sense that they have to go through a legal process
And that seems like a very fair system
So what is the argument being made and i'm sure there is one?
I think there's I feel like there's there's there's something i'm missing or there's something that hasn't been mentioned. So yes
So so I think when we look in the past history, and I know austin's here
And we've talked about this extensively him and I and other spaces such about this. So the the difference now that we're seeing
really since mid 2010s right 2014
Forward in the term of when we're talking about migration into the united states historically in the past what you would see is
What people would consider
People would cross the border
They would get caught by border patrol and then quickly deported back into mexico
And it was kind of this just just this merry-go-round because a lot of them were seasonal workers, etc
They would come in illegally, etc. They would cross the border
Not claim anything go and then they would just get deported back into mexico, right?
What we started to see really posed
Extensively now and this is where I think there's a misconception
Is that what we're seeing now is that a lot of these migrants the moment they enter into the united states
Regardless of a court of entry or in between ports of entry and that's what people when they frame illegally
It's really when they kind of go through ports of entry when they're approached by border patrol
The first thing they'll do is they'll claim refugee, right?
They will claim the right to be a refugee in the united states
And so the moment that happens that then becomes a legal proceeding, right?
It's not any legal entry into this country
We've had to look at them during the cold war what we would do in cuba
The moment cubans would come into the united states and they would touch american soil
And they say I claim refugee status. They were automatically entered into the united states
Right. So that is what we're seeing in explosions because people forget claiming refugee is not illegal
And so when people say well, why don't they wait through the legal process?
The only other option to do that right is
Going to the u.s embassy and consulate and filling out that paperwork which can take years if not longer
Just to even get accepted into the system, right? And I think
It's well documented the backlog that the state department has in issuing those types of visas to people
And so I think the framing is I think the framing of your question mario is a little bit wrong in the sense
That would people come into the united states?
They claim refugee status
Then they have to get set into the immigration court procedures. And so in that process they're quote legal. No, no, I understand
But that doesn't address my question. My question is that that sounds like I think we both agree. This sounds like a very fair process
Why are states like california allowing them and are they allowing them to avoid that legal process and not be able to get someone to call?
So that is more so so that is people who've been in this country illegally for so originally, right that was people who were in this country
Elite, you know that they had no status whatsoever, right? No visa
No green car no citizens have nothing and they've been living in this country for 10 20 30 years
And so what would happen is ice would go after them and then deport them and remove them from basically the community that they've been
There for 10 20 years. That's why we had the dreamers act
That was passed because of a lot of children who at no fault of their own. They they weren't born in the united states
They were brought here as young children
And there was an attempt by the obon administration to provide legal protection to them
And I actually know a couple of dreamers who don't even I know some that don't even speak spanish
Who just live in america and a lot of them actually had no idea
That they were here illegally and that they were at risk of deport deportation until they were a lot older
Right. And so that was really kind of what that was geared towards more and then it just kind of expanded
Let me let me ask you my question again. So I understand um, again, let's say i'm an illegal immigrant
I enter the u.s. Um, and then I I claim
So I claim refugee status
And um, and then I cook you have to go to court on this date
To see if we can accept you based on your refugee claim on your asylum claim, which can take years by the way
There's a huge backlog for that
But that means that means I could work and live in the in the u.s illegally for those years while going through the legal process
You're not illegal. You're not illegal. I understand but
I'll remove the word illegal. I can I can I can work and live in the u.s in that period
Um undocumented undocumented, um, I don't know
I I I went ahead and I put up this is very sorry. Um, I went ahead and put up
An article I think it's Reuters who reported on this there are in international law
Um those who their their specific laws, uh targeting, um, those who are seeking asylum asylum seekers
Um those who are seeking refugee status and um international law is very clear
That if there is an asylum seeker slash refugee seeking, uh political refugee
Seeking that status that they have to apply to the first country
That they cross the border in that would that supports that that's involved in the international community international law
And recognizes international law. Um, the biden administration has made it really clear that they have to provide proof
Now so it's not just oh you get a court date
They have to provide proof that they sought asylum in the first country
That they entered into not crossing multiple borders to try to get into the united states and then claim asylum
So there are really specific international laws that have now been um
Adopted into law in the united states or at least into
Practical application into the united states by the biden administration. Um, i'm not quite sure
If this is actually happening at the border i'd be interested to hear
Uh what journals on the ground have spoken to?
From you know, those who are in dhs and those who are working in the admin side
But it seems pretty clear that the biden administration is expecting those individuals claiming that
That they have gone through the process and in in those other countries that they've gone through requesting asylum
Um, okay, it's an interesting addition and to go back to the to the question I had to your all source
If I enter the country and I claim asylum and let's say like I I managed to claim asylum
And then I go to california. Does that mean I can avoid going through the legal process at all and just stay in california?
Is that how a sanctuary state would work?
So sanctuary state or cities basically means that they will not collaborate with ice in in assisting in any way shape or form
Uh their search for that individual right so that that's where the term comes now
It's just the state has no ability to prevent a federal action. It's just they will not
uh cooperate with it's ideological
It's ideological. It's it isn't it when it comes down to it
They might claim those politicians might claim that it has to do with
supporting farming or work or whatnot, but it is very much ideological to the point that um in within these
sanctuary cities and within these certain states
It seems that individuals who are not citizens of this country
Were still provided the opportunity to vote. That's a problem
In california in particular as we're pointing out and also new york city
it's worth pointing out that uh, it's not just a border issue even though the border does see the vast majority of
Problems when it comes to illegal immigration
a lot of these uh immigrants, right
They actually travel across the country many of them even go to canada
They just travel through the u.s to go to canada because canada offers them a lot of amenities that uh, you know
Most places in america simply will not write like free housing
Uh, but they're also a problem for major cities. For instance, new york city saw, uh, you know busloads of them being sent
Uh from texas right courtesy of governor abbott because he wants to he wanted to make sure that they felt the problem, too
It became such a problem that eric adams declared a state of emergency in new york city
Because there were so many uh migrants undocumented migrants being bused there that they were unable to cope
With uh with the influx, right?
They because they have like shelter in place that are typically set up for because they're a sanctuary city
uh, but they couldn't even cope with it and I think it was like 100 or or it was a fairly low number of
migrants that were sent, um
Both by florida. No, it was ongoing. I think I believe it was ongoing even from florida
Yeah, florida didn't really do that much because florida doesn't really have that much of a problem
but uh texas sent uh busloads like repeatedly and it just stopped being covered by it right, I mean
Go ahead. So if I just made florida
Yeah, yeah, nick. I just want it. So florida does suffer if i'm mostly from
Uh via boat, uh, we do see a lot of activities but not to the numbers of the land board crossing
But seaboard we do see stills from cuban. Haiti. Sorry ahead. Sorry. Go ahead
What is going on here when it comes to the biden administration seems to be blaming?
The trump administration i'm trying to figure out how you justify that how are they justifying that?
What was the trump administration doing differently that the biden administration is not doing?
Yeah, no, it's uh, it's good to be here. And one of the points you said earlier
I really agreed with and it doesn't really get talked a lot
Uh, when you look at sort of the immigration problem in the u.s
There's like two sides of it. You have like the adjudication side, which is like the court side
Uh, and that side doesn't get talked about as much as it comes to like the border wall and all that
Um, but that side's crazy in the sense that like the average time I know somebody was mentioning it earlier
Uh, which is like four years
So from the time that that person is met by a border patrol agent to their court date
You're talking three to four years out
Uh, not going to happen, right? Uh, so that's like a big problem
Uh that that you know has been identified and sort of needs to be figured out
The problem is this border patrol just does not have the people. Uh, the funding is not there
It's not been a priority of the biden administration. Uh, I think the ulterior motive here was to get it back to title eight
Uh, which you guys mentioned before
Uh, but it's going to be a really big crisis and people are going to see the brunt of it
Uh, we saw, uh curse and cinema just come out the other day talking about this saying that she was like
the biden administration to sort of
Uh jump on board and help out do something
Okay, states like hers are going to deal with the brunt of it senator, right?
Democrat senator right from arizona. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah 100 percent. Well, there's another democrat too. I think it was uh, charise davids
Uh called on biden and mayorkas to also work with the gop on sort of a plan
Uh, because I mean they've had two years. This is the thing that I think pisses me off
I think it pisses a lot of people off is they had two years to prepare for this
Uh, camala harris is the border czar. She was just named the ai czar, which
Is an absolute I mean after seeing what you do with the border now, they want her to do ai
Uh, I I mean we're going to see a travesty
On top of another travesty. So I mean if this is what we're working with
Uh get prepared because it's going to be a very very large humanitarian crisis
Uh on the southern border in the united states and we're not prepared for it
So ryan there's a couple of points you mentioned
So I am uh, I will have gone to the border more times than camila harris will tomorrow when I get to the border
And she is the borders are but all source
I want to go back to you real quick because I want to ask you you you follow a lot of
These cartel situations down in mexico
Who are we seeing cross these borders?
How how is ms13 getting into the united states?
And you know, what are we looking at once title 42, uh expires on thursday?
I I know and ms13. I know is more of austin's wheelhouse covers el Salvador
extensively more than I do so so i'm just going to push that to
Austin for for a second on that
But the vast majority, you know, i'm very sensitive with the border
live in a border area myself, um
The the vast majority of the cases that we see do are are people that you know requests, you know
Asylum legitimately right and obviously the border patrol cvp dhs etc has ways to try to bet as much as possible
Who who are trying to come into the border?
And to ensure that the people that do do not either have prior criminal records
I think that are not in the terrorist watch list because with the huge increase that we've seen recently there has been an uptick
in those types of kind of
You know people that might be monitored in the terrorist watch list
Um, so the there is though the vast majority of those people are just like family units basically, uh, uh, and we're and we're seeing a lot of that
um in the in the in the notion of
Kind of like I think when we're talking about though mexico and drug cartels specifically
I think there there has to be a clear distinction, right?
And this is something that I always talk about is that when we're analyzing mexico and the cartel violence that occurs there
We shouldn't necessarily use you
U.S. Domestic political lens because the violence that ravages mexico in the cartels does not cross necessarily
Uh into the border of at the magnitude that we see in the south
So, um in terms of the number of people who come to the u.s based on you know
As you described there being terrorist or wherever maybe what percentage of people who are illegal immigrants are coming for that reason compared to?
I would have to look at the last data
But I mean we're talking if we're talking about tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of people crossing the borders
I mean you're talking about maybe at most dozens that have hit that
Yeah, yeah, so so yeah that that's that's the key thing and again and and and I know maybe for
Further down in this space, but I think that the the issue of the mexican cartels when it's talked about related to the border
Like this is although there's overlap obviously between both crises
We cannot just automatically mix both into one and saying that this is going to impact the united states. It's a completely separate
Issue problem set that that affects mexico and the levels of violence that we see currently going down there
Does not automatically translate into going to the border more importantly
I think one of the people that forget to realize that although more resources can obviously better be dedicated to the border regions
you know, the southern border has had decades of of funding and and congressional, you know intervention and
Multiple administration that has put the resources in place
That although maybe not enough now because of the crisis that we're seeing
There are a lot more well prepared to handle these types of situations and crises than we maybe were five ten years ago
But I do know austin probably can talk a little bit more nick about the ms-13 i'd defer to him on that
And just before we go to austin ryan, I had a couple of questions for you based on what you said you said that uh
You know, there's going to be an immigration problem
Um, so what is this problem that you are foreseeing?
Also, you said people will feel the brunt of it. So if you can just elaborate on those points, that'd be brilliant
Yeah, well, I mean a lot of the experts are saying, you know, even early on this month here in may
Numbers have just been staggering. I think it was like 8 000 people so far 10 000 in one area
Immigrants or do you mean illegal immigrants illegal immigrants not turning the country. Yeah
So, uh, they're projecting those numbers are going to be upwards of eight hundred to towards a million in the next couple of months
The the nullification of uh title 42
And so what do you mean by people are gonna feel feel a brunt of it do you mean the american citizens or do you mean
Yeah, yeah, I mean ultimately american citizens people in these communities, you know
It's it's not you know, a fact that you know, these people are coming from mexico or el Salvador or wherever
They don't just stay in one area. They're gonna go to places like miami. They're gonna go to places like texas
They're going to go to new york. They're going to go to california
They're going to sort of migrant around and the government sort of giving them that ability to do that
Uh, so it's going to have an effect not really just on southern border towns or states
It's going to have an effect on on cities across the country that probably already dealing with other crises like the homeless crisis in san francisco
Uh going up to portland the crime issues
Uh, so I think it's kind of a big contribution in many areas that people aren't necessarily thinking about right now
Uh, but down the road, uh are going to start to see some of those those areas start to rupture
So so man, if I may I think one important aspect that we need when we talk about the immigration run and people for coming through
CBP every month publishes a monthly data of basically the the country of origin
Where we see these marigrams come through, right?
And I think one of the important aspects is that that list changes drastically like which countries
We're actually seeing a huge increase in the number of migrants coming into the united states
And there was a huge spike of russians claiming asylum into the united states after you know, whom ordered the mobilization
The other one is uh in china because of the zero covid teaching center
We we're actually seeing a huge increase as well as chinese to the point that even in
Weibo like their equivalent of twitter
There are actual pages that tell people how to come into the united states through mexico to require
The northern triangle el sabador
Guatemala and honduras, I mean that those also come cuba last year or two years ago and especially recently
Because of the communist regime and the just the crackdown on the people there in the protest
We see, you know refugees in haiti as well
So generally what you see is that there's crisis around the world about a month to two months later
You will generally see that spike of that country's origin of people coming into the united states to request asylum
Based on that, so if you just look around the world where the crisis are occurring
You could probably also start correlating and see why are we seeing that you look at the domestic situation of those countries?
And you can kind of connect the dots and see that's why it's happening
But it's not just you know mexicans or or central americans
It's a around the world prop, you know people from around the world are coming
Obviously the vast majority though are coming from, you know, mexico in the northern triangle
Just just I mean, I did look into this topic a bit before I mean, I looked into it from other avenues from the uk in the u.s
There wasn't enough academic papers on this
But then there was something from the london school of economics
And what the london school of economics that is that basically in the west the population collapses happening so significantly
That there is an extreme need for immigration
But not only immigration actually illegal
immigration without it society in itself wouldn't be able to function
So what's um, what's your thoughts on that ryan maybe get get we should get rid of ryan and christian's thoughts on this
Oh christian, go ahead. Hey mario. Can I just can I say ben burghquans in this space right now?
And he's probably spent more time at the border than anybody
Um, and he requested to speak so i'm happy to step down and give him my space
Just because I think he would add so much value to this conversation
Sure heather really appreciate i'll bring him i'll bring him up now heather. Thank you so much. Ben. I'll see your request
I'll bring you up. Yep, you know, i'll be uploading this
I don't know random mention here, but i'll be re-uploading a documentary I produced the lore and southern made it
That's about a border crisis. I'll put it up tonight
Yeah, so stay tuned on twitter
So i mean i'll ask you i'll let you ask the question again to christian so the audience can hear it
And then get christian and wine to answer it
Yeah, sure christian, uh, it was basically I think you probably heard most of this
I'll go through the whole story again
But basically the what the paper suggested is you need both immigration and actual illegal immigration to counter the basically
Population collapse you're having and the lack of infrastructure that is in the west
Thank you for having me today in this room, um
I would disagree with that
Uh based on even the most liberal left-leaning think tanks
Um, they show based on their own studies such as the center for immigration studies cis
Uh does disproportionately impact?
The previous president of the united states president donald j. Trump wrote two executive orders in 2020
He stated specifically that immigration disproportionately impacts low-wage workers and he also said that it
disproportionately impacts african-americans as well, so
Uh, I would say that uh, no that we that we don't need immigration
When you look at some of the polls on immigration, you'll find that even democrats overwhelmingly
This is the legal term alien entry into the united states whether at the southern border whether at a port of entry
believe that we have a lot of problems at home
And we should not be seeking to bring bring in more people
When we can't solve our own problems at home
And this problem with immigration that this is going to impact
Uh what happens to our resources inside of the states?
uh, you know, unfortunately, we have uh, joe biden in the white house and
u.s supreme court precedent
They uh essentially upheld the power of article two the power of the president of the united states
And any president going forward
Does have the article two power to open the border. So that means that going forward
Uh, we will have to bear the brunt of it inside of the states
Uh, and this will be coast to coast whether you're in washington
Next to oregon or whether you're in maine whether you're in michigan, whether you're in florida
You're going to be impacted
And and those resources inside of the states
accounted for when they decide to bring in people
Who have not gone through the process of our immigration finale act the actual
immigration process that is being skipped over
Um, and so all those things whether it's school districts
Whether it's housing. I mean just just look at just look at the fact that
the phoenix metropolitan area
has the nation's highest inflation rate
And you would say well, what's driving that or what's causing that?
You could say that it's gas
Or you could say that uh, it has something to do with our real estate market
Um, you could say that we're in the the furthest southern part
Southwest part of the united states, but I think it's pretty obvious that we have an open border
I've been down to the border myself
Uh, i've taken four trips down to the border
Drove into the mountains down at the border
including uh in uh, california as well at the intersection of california
I've been to four different areas alongside the border. I can tell you that
The border patrol the cvp the border patrol agents that i've talked to
Have told me specifically explicitly that
Those outside of the united states understand that we have a vulnerability down at the border
And they are showing up to the border because they understand that our elected officials
Whether at the federal level and including the states because the states give money
To those that come into the country
After they arrive, they know that our elected officials are not going to do anything about this
And they're taking advantage of it. And so and so
What would be the solution like would building a wall be the solution?
We need some sort of electronic counter measures. What do we need here to stop this?
Where are these migrants getting in because we're talking by the millions
We have under the under the bid administration. For example, we're looking at I believe over 6.3
And one point over one million migrants have been able to successfully
Evade border patrol and get into the united states illegally. What do we need to do?
We have got to do so so you said the first thing which was
And so let let's go back to uh during uh, the trump presidency
where the cbp testified under oath inside of the united states judiciary committee
And they stated that the areas where the barriers that have been reinforced
Also, the sheriffs went to the white house under your favorite president president donald j. Trump
And they stood behind the president and said yes, mr. President. We need the wall
What will solve the problem from a scientific mathematical standpoint?
Who is in the white house and then you have to ask for at the state level
which states are going to
Continue to perpetuate open borders. Uh, you know when you have a a state that wants to allow
Aliens to vote that's totally out of order when you have a state that wants to allow
Uh, the county boards the boards of supervisors. That's totally out of order
We are we are allowing this to happen ourselves. This is our own fault
We've made this decision and joe biden even when he ran for president
He specifically cited multiple things that he would do
Revert or reverse the things that trump did. Uh, while he was in office
Christian just a question about that. Yeah, so let me
Oh, go ahead nick. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry nick. You're gonna ask a question and i'll come to christian. Go ahead
No, no, no, no, what's okay? I just want to um, I was gonna go to austin
My phone's messing up guys
Guys don't do this at myspace. No, you do it. No, you do it. Just ask a question nick. Don't worry
Um ask a question to austin and then salami can ask this question to christian
And because i've got a question for austin as well
Um, but that kind of goes back a few steps. So you go first nick
Okay, well stop stop making your spaces so glitchy and we'll be okay. Um,
Uh austin so I am going down to the border tomorrow
Uh, I wouldn't like uh, I know christian was saying some things about what he thinks should be done
What the trump administration would have done that the biden administration is not doing
Uh, I I want to know from you. What should I be looking for? Should I be looking for certain vulnerabilities?
Are there certain areas where these migrants are able to get in where the federal government especially this administration?
Uh, whether they are not actively protecting this border, you know, what are your thoughts here?
So to my understanding, um the department of homeland security and specifically customs and border patrols
Budgets have remained actually unchanged between the trump and biden administration
So I think one thing to look for is just going to be asking folks on the ground
What's where those resources are going to what does that look like?
Uh, I think that I would be curious about and I kind of wanted to talk about your previous point about ms-13 here
Is just sort of looking at where some of these folks are coming from because to my understanding over the last 10 years
Some of these asylum seekers are originating from we've seen a large sort of contingent coming from benesuela with the with the maduro regime there
We've seen a lot of folk coming from al Salvador in the northern triangle. So like guanamala
Just to be clear also just for the people ms-13 is the gang. Yeah
Yeah, it's ms-13 is a crime
And there's another major gang in al Salvador known as barrio de siotro
The interesting thing about both of these gangs mario is that they actually both originated it in los angeles in the 70s and the 80s
They were exported basically down to al Salvador and then they sort of found a power structure there
That over the last two years has taken a pretty serious hit with sort of the current president of al Salvador's
New security laws and sort of crackdowns throughout the country
That being said, uh, I want to say the last major case
we've seen of ms-13 operating within the united states in a fatal sort of encounter was a
shooting between them and barrio 18 in new york back in 2019
Um, I think it's important when talking about both of these gangs is that their power structure is really fundamentally threatened
So going back to the to the discussion the immigration discussion is is
That having stricter immigration laws
Does that logically prevent gang members from entering the country? Is that a face statement or even that one is is debated
Well, I mean, I think generally speaking when you look at how cartels and criminal organizations operate in um
In central american and the northern triangle in particular many times
Beyond sort of like smuggling and trafficking operations
They don't want to have a super large presence within the united states unless it's specifically sort of linked to monetary flows
And the reason for this is because you know, um, the dea has far more reach within the united states local law enforcement does
And generally speaking, you know, if these uh gang members are arrested in the united states
It's almost a guarantee that they're not getting out for a very long time
Which is you know far different from some of the the local judicial systems
We see in like mexico and doris guatemala all of that stuff. I think for me at least
I think far more of the conversation needs to be on the legal backlog. I understand that nick brought up earlier
Statistics on you know, how many of these migrants or asylum seekers are appearing for their court hearings?
I did just pull up a study by the american immigration council that did a study from 2008 to 2018 that showed that 83 percent
Of migrants requesting asylum are going through those receiving those initial court hearings did show up
So just came out look five minutes ago and that kind of links to my next question
I'm glad ali's back on stage and I do have
More questions for ben who's on stage as well, and I know ryan was going to get the mic earlier
So it's got an incredible panel and just five minutes ago
Our friend warm auditor tweeted texas is preparing to send quote thousands more
Migrants to new york chicago and other sanctuary cities in the coming days
Can you elaborate on on and I know this is a struggle and and that's been going on for many years
But can you elaborate why is texas doing this and the whole discussion around sanctuary states?
Like i'm just trying to understand the logic behind it because the the the title eight seemed like a logical
Logical way to deal with immigrants like they come in they go through a legal process. I know many disagree with it
But it sounds like a very very
I want to understand like why are sanctuary states?
Not collaborating with the federal government when it comes to title eight
I mean in my opinion it would drum down to the same reason that we're seeing states like texas and florida busing
Asylum seekers to different sort of sanctuary cities. I think it's it's political mostly they want to sort of appear
Software and immigration than the republicans do and I think the republicans want to appear harsher on it. Um, I think the reality is
I think specifically on the issue of immigration
There are far too far too many political stunts and far too little resources specifically going to the legal side of things and sort of
Starting to cure this massive backlog that we've encountered over the years
So so I I just want to clarify the record here so so
What what is actually happening or or what's the difference between?
Immigration under trump versus immigration under biden. Now as I was stating earlier joe biden ran
On opening the border. Uh
He said I i'm just reading off of his manifesto here
Immediately reversed the trump's administration cruel and senseless policies that separate parents from their children at our border
In trump's detrimental asylum policies in the mismanagement of the asylum system, which fuels violence and chaos at the border
Pun intended chaos at the border under biden now
Uh in prolonged detention and reinvest in a case management program reverse trump's public charge rule
Which public charge relates to snap benefits food stamps section eight
And all the other types of housing benefits, uh in the so-called national emergency that siphons federal dollars from the department of defense to build a wall
I this is joe biden. That's saying that he wanted to end the national emergency
Well now we have a national emergency at the border
Uh protect dreamers and their families rescind the un-american american travel and refugee bans
Order an immediate review of temporary protection status tps
This just goes on and on and on
That joe biden. This is these are the things that joe biden did within his first hundred days
So christian if I may I think one of the important aspects of that
I do I just do want to highlight because of this idea of the border wall and so and I do I just
So one I you know my time in the military I did deploy to the border under the trump administration
In 2018 when they did the because the quote unquote caravan and we went down there to reinforce the border etc, right?
I I part of the things not only there but also here that I see is that this idea that the border wall is going
To stop everything that's going on. It's just not
We we see the documented evidence that it does not happen
So I actually the result a couple weeks ago. We had a whatsapp video of through the border
They managed to open the border wall and have migrants and drug meals just run through that was actually something shared on a whatsapp group
Very common within groups of the cartels that were saying and one of the things they were saying if you want to enter the united
states join this whatsapp group right so that that is well documented too
When we're talking though more importantly about the border and and to this point maria that I really wanted to hit upon right is that
And we're talking about gains and cartels is that we forget the infrastructure that is that is in the united states
Done by us citizens to support those groups
Right that they're us citizens that are actively involved the the agencies that actually have the highest level of federal corruption investigation and conviction
Unfortunately, it's border patrol and cvp
They had the highest level of because of corruption cases against them. Also that that yeah
Whatever go ahead. I just want to summarize what you're saying. So are you saying
That first of all, there's only a small amount of people who are illegal illegal agreements who are involved in this
You know in this basic behavior where you're referring to but in addition to that
Those that are involved there is some connection to already people who are us citizens at that at this moment
So so again, this goes to this again. These are two separate conversations
And that have overlapped so there's the migration question
Right of people coming into the united states for whatever reasons right migrants
Either that do not want to claim asylum or do claim asylum or whatever
And then there's a conversation about gangs and cartels right and the threat that they have to our own national security homeland security
I assume when you're talking about gangs and cartels you're referring to even those who come from
Who come illegally into the united states that some of them you mentioned like dozens
So a small number of them are cartel or gang members. Is that what you're saying?
So so the so the dozens is more was more related to the terrorist watch list
Okay, it's probably higher number of people that have been identified with either prior convictions in the united states with gangs austin
Here's an example someone that I think is important for you to understand like so he's correct that ms13 was originated in the united states
In los angeles the reason why they took strength in el sabador is that those gang members in la were deported
Right a lot of ms13 people in the los angeles when they were detained
They realized that they were not here legally
They deported them to el sabador and that's where ms13 became this monster of an organization because it was a country that had
No ability to deal with it
Right. So when we're talking about gangs and cartel members coming into the united states illegally, let's say let's use that term
We're not talking about large numbers
But what what how title 42 ties into the cartel specifically in human trafficking?
Is that title 42 actually was very beneficial financially for cartel members?
Because then what happens is you go into the united states you request a sign title 42 you remain in mexico
That was the policy it would get sent back to mexico
And so then what would happen is you either have cartel or local gang members in mexico do two things one
kidnap migrants for extortions demanding money
From their family members back in you know, central or south america wherever they're from to send money, right?
And we had well-documented evidence of migrants being executed in mexico because of failure to pay or two
You pay these cartel and human smuggling networks that operate there saying look you have to reign a man in mexico
I'll send you across the border and what's beneficial for the for the cartels is if you get caught and get sent back into mexico
You just say hey you want to go back into mexico again pay me
Right. Okay title that and I think that's something that we forget when we're having this conversation when we're looking at it from a
Monetary point of view is that a lot of times the policies that we put in place to solve maybe a immigration problem
You're not you're moving away from the topic guys you're discussing the policy like we're deciding like no
No, no, no, no, no, but that was important because you know where it is
A lot of people try and basically make people or convince people that the number of when people are coming to the u.s
illegally, they're drug members their cartel members, you know
What also saying is that that's a very minute amount that's
A minute amount is still an amount nonetheless
It comes back to the core amount
Listen, listen, I haven't spoken much. So let me say something
And we're on the same, you know
I don't think I think immigration is important for for for economies and it's better for the for the for the world, etc
but at the same time I understand
Proper procedures and proper processes for dealing with immigrants is also very important
The culture of a country ensuring the system is showing the economy ensuring low crime rate ensuring making sure the right people get in
What do you mean by what do you mean by the culture? What do you mean by the right people explain?
I'll let other panelists explain this
But i'll i'll go back to the point I want to make and and i'll explain it
I'll give you my thoughts at the end as I as I continue to listen
But I think the main debate shouldn't be what is the right policy?
The debate should be what are the advantages versus the disadvantages of accepting immigrants?
This is the core of the debate because if you think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and there's both
You can't say you're not you're you're you're you're being you're being you're not being objective
You're not being honest when you say there's no disadvantages as well
And at the same time someone says there's no advantages not being honest either
So the debate should be what are the advantages? Let me finish. Hold on
What are the advantages versus the disadvantages discuss that and then when you get a middle ground there
Then dealing with policy becomes a lot easier, but this is where it gets polarizing
Yeah, so can I go first can I go for
I haven't had anything to say but you know, this is one of the things I want to interrupt with okay
So okay, first of all, you got to understand that legal immigration versus illegal immigration. They're two different things
Secondly, there's a quality of migrants. Where are they coming from? Are we talking Haiti? Are we talking, uh, Singapore? Okay
Sweden Norway Denmark, are we talking about immigrants from there?
Are we talking about immigrants from third world countries, right?
This is something that people don't want to address people act as if every single immigrant is the same thing
They're not right an immigrant from hong kong is not going to be of the same quality or the same
You know have the same educational background as someone from
I love how honest Ian is like you can agree or disagree with Ian. He'll say it as it is
He doesn't polish things up. He's like he's like immigrants from this country are lower quality. He's the word quality
He makes a point but he he doesn't polish it man and he just says it as it is
I want you to go back to what Ian just said. Sorry Justin because I don't sound very interesting. So man respond to Ian, please
No, i'm not i'm not just it wasn't a response
Actually, it was a bit of a response
But did you notice the country that Ian mentioned which he mentioned high quality are basically white countries or people who who are
Who are a lighter shade of white and the countries who are low quality
You see how this is how a man does this he that he immediately goes he just puts words in your mouth
And goes to the color of your skin. It's not I think nothing to do everything went back. Yeah, nothing to do with hell
Yeah, like if you if you take immigrants from Poland, they're going to be of a different quality than say Ukraine, you know
One is uh, you know known for having uh conservative values stability. Whereas Ukraine is
No, exactly i'm saying don't say that don't put it in my mouth
So i'll give you an example so i'll give you an example if Ian you apply now
To go into let's say germany as immigrants
They'll look at number one. They look at education
So that it's normal for me to have a significantly higher likelihood to get into germany than you and I think that's fair
Why why do you have a high why do you have a high likelihood because you're like i'm glad we don't come back to shame again
Why do you have a why do you have a
Is it's intelligence that's it's based on intelligence on the color of the skin
So here's here's the thing. I love immigration, right?
And I don't I i'm not so much worried about the country of origin as long as they go through a vetting process
What I mean is come in the legal way, right? I don't have a problem with that because here's what's happening
The reality is is this we've got 15 000 people in el paso right now
And they have no infrastructure to handle them and as this expires
There's going to be more you also are seeing where a lot of them are being sent like chicago new york and so on and so forth
Well, I just saw a press conference that was held in chicago by residents that live in the specific area in chicago
That are actually not able to obtain housing because they're actually taking the housing and giving it to the illegal migrants that have been
Bussed up to chicago and they're actually taking resources away from the community that should be provided within that community
So I am 1000 behind immigration
And I don't mind who's who that comes in as long as they're not
I don't I don't care what country they come from as long as you're doing it legally because we are it is
Overwhelming all of the the resources and infrastructure that's in place. That's exactly the way to frame it. It's it's not a quality issue
It's a matter of whether or not the communities can't support these people. Someone used the phrase earlier
Because you know you're going to have a lot of paperwork if they have a criminal record it won't be able to obtain certain
Uh ways of getting in right when when you're doing it illegally, you know
You can skirt all this you can bypass any single background check
There is people don't know if you're even vaccinated for example, right?
And that's what title 42 is for to make sure that they were vaccinated now that that is gone
There's no more safeguards
Nothing to stop an illegal immigrant coming in has a criminal background and many of them do and not saying all of them do
But many of them do right a significant portion of them do
They're either cartel members or they're uh, you know
They're running away from something some crime that they did in their home country and they come and they do so repeatedly
I mean they get ejected from the country to get deported and then they come back again and again and again
Because there's no way to check doing it illegally. Yeah, someone used the term
Except except except except for a president of the united states a
Ian i'm just going to come back to you, right?
So in terms of what you said about ukraine and poland
Although you're saying that in this space in reality the actions of the west don't demonstrate your point
So as an example in the uk, we lau in ukraine who you said is low quality
Caught blanche we paid them. We financed them. We give them housing. We give them every single thing, right?
Migrants from countries who are not ukraine
So for example from syria or whatever these countries are where we've caused the destruction in them countries
We basically send them to rwanda. So that's an example before you continue
So ian and sliman are using the word quality. I do not condone that word. So when when the hate messages kick in
That's not the right word. The right word looks like someone used the word that previously it was public charges
Okay, and that is a phrase that has been used for over 150 years in the united states
I'm looking at an article. I think I posted it in the nest. This is from the new york times
1886 and it talks about a group of mormon immigrants who were coming into iceland coming in from iceland
Okay on a ship and they when they got there the uh, superintendent came on board and looked at them and said hey
If you're going to be assisted immigrants, that is you're going to be public charges to wherever you go
Wherever you land we're going to send you back
And so, you know, we have this this vision that everyone that came into ellis island was warmly. Well, no, no, no
They were screened and this was because people wanted to know if you're coming to my town
Can you can you sustain yourself? Are you self-sufficient?
If you aren't we don't have the means to support you i'm here in san diego and i'm telling you like the overwhelming
Homelessness that we're seeing downtown and then i'm on my next door app all the time
More and more very crazy moments with illegal immigrants that are happening in the suburbs
I mean it's bleeding into our town and that has an impact on people not because of lower quality people because they
They haven't self-sustained them what the evidence that it's having an impact. So what I mean by that is
I'll give you the evidence. For example, they don't they don't track this stuff, but they'll let they'll let slip certain things
Because they don't want to face the reality in utah, for example
Maybe maybe let him finish
Look, so for example in utah, there were stats that were released mistakenly
And this is about I think five or six ten years ago
Maybe and it showed that 80 percent of all hit and run accidents in utah were caused by illegal aliens
I think you will find exactly the same stats. You go talk to any highway patrolman here in california
Anyone who has to deal with that they will tell you very honestly very on the dl
That's the case. They don't track him here because they don't want to it's politically in expedient for them to do so
Okay, they track them in texas. It's it's crazy
So first of all hit and run irrelevant to the point we were talking about no, not irrelevant not irrelevant
It is not about whether you need migrants or not
The second point is let's be clear the reason there's no data
the reason why you're not getting data is because
It works in everybody's favor to have this narrative that migrants are a problem
To make everybody to create this propaganda that they are a problem
And so when you get the data to show that actually you need migrants because the caucasian population in your country is dying
Is in the united kingdom my country and so you need
Bodies to be able to make that up. You don't want to face the reality. And so that's a notch above slavery, buddy
It's a notch above slavery. I mean you remember that famous line
You remember that famous line from musical hamilton?
No, no, look you remember that famous line from the musical hamilton where they're having the rap battle
No, i'm basically because these workers come here, okay, they work for pennies on the dollar
they send all the money back home and these corporations that then get all of their
Their produce picked for free basically if they had to sustain themselves, but here's the deal. For example in california
They say that when it was came to people, you know, eastern europeans coming to the country they needed them
That's always the excuse. That's always the excuse
Yours is it because you've got no evidence to back it up. It's just I just gave you all the evidence
Actually, not paying taxes is not evidence of anything they have to pay property taxes
They have to pay clothing taxes when they purchase so for you to even make that argument is quite
Lastable to begin with it's always simplistic and not even basing on any and not even
Consideration the not even consideration. The fact that business has been maintained stopping businesses from folding
Not even taking in all the businesses
But evidence says guess what there was a hit and run. So that means migrants. We've got a problem
Migrants shouldn't get out in no, so it's a little bit different in the u.s
Those syllabus so it is and this is actually pretty well known and they do want they don't want to know and I want evidence
Yeah, I mean, okay, if you're comfortable you to property taxes in the u.s
So guys can you just can you just sum up where is the disagreement between trash what is the disagreement between justin and slayman
So they're bringing up. So they're bringing up that well between justin and soman he soman wants evidence that
That really there's there's companies that are motivated to bring in low skill low-cost labor
into the country because they cannot get it and they would have to pay far much more money for american citizens versus
I guess illegal is the word you want to use but like undocumented trash before you continue. I just on that point
I agree with the argument. He said he said I agree with that too. I think that's what they're doing and I think it's wrong
Okay, so you all agree on this one. I'm glad okay, so where's the next why do you guys disagree?
These guys are trying to make it look like it's a problem. I'm saying
There's a need for it because essentially they do provide a conti even when they because what just let me let me do this
Guys and summon hold on two seconds
So before you continue about why it's needed, um, just want to ask you a question. So i'm in the question for you
Justin i'll ask justin first. Justin. Do you think there is economic advantages?
With accepting immigrants
In general if done if done right if don't know if
Legal immigration is fantastic and it can work very well
It's okay before before before you continue because I know we'll lead to another debate
So let me have got a question for you
I'll show you where the agreement is and then better understand the disagreement
Some and the question to you is if immigration is done wrong. It's not the right process. Etc
I'm going extreme open up the borders
Anyone could come into the country that's an extreme to make my point because I know you like to debate things
Um, could it become a problem?
And cause more harm than good
Again, if not done, right, okay, cool. So this is where we
Okay, hold on do you think yeah, that was me okay. Simon, do you disagree with that statement?
Yeah, I mean i'll explain i'll explain it, but you're not going to let me explain it
I'll let you explain it. Do you disagree?
I can totally disagree with that because
I'll give you the microphone. I just want to see where they agree
The president being there creates the problem. It lowers the wages of everybody across the board
That's why legal immigration is bad period. My country suffers from illegal immigration in Asia, Bangladesh, Pakistan and they lower the wages
Locals will not take those jobs or as the illegal immigrants will still take those jobs because they send it back home
Now I know why rebel now. I and why no why rebel news wants you to work with them, bro
No one's they're like a bulldozer. I swear
Um, i'll give ian the mic right after i'll give it
Trash it real quick mario. Yeah, go ahead. Yes. Just come back to me. Come back to me before you move on
Yeah, oh, well, i'll go. Yeah, I know because I interrupted you so i'll go to trash in the end
So just want to finish this with slay man. Say man
Um, if immigration is done wrong i'm simplifying it to see where you guys agree
And I think you know where i'm going with this and then we'll see where you disagree
But if immigration is done wrong, it's not the right process not the right laws
It can cause more harm than good. You can't disagree with this
So this few points hopefully i'm able to explain it so in terms of
My first thing you agree or disagree with the statement itself
I'm going to explain it because there's depth to it
I can't just say agree or disagree because if I say I agree then you're going to say you agree
And then it's going to put me in the same situation all these guys
And I don't agree with a lot what you guys said if I say I disagree then you're going to be like, oh you allow
Everything is nuanced everything is nuanced faraj farai, but you can agree on something
He's just not far far. You don't know him. He's just a pain in the fucking ass every time
Please explain please explain the breadth of it
Can you just look at the words what everybody's saying?
So they say that they come into this country that we're talking about illegal immigrants
They provide no benefit and they're sending money back home, right?
So they're ignoring the fact that actually even when it comes to illegal immigrants, right?
If I had an ideal society, of course, you're not actually
Some of you're making good points, but you're not asking my question, man
You're using this as an opportunity to make other points answer it directly and then you can make out other points
I know there's other things that trigger you just answer the question if done wrong
Can immigration can cause can it cause more harm than good?
If done wrong anything can cause more harm and good including immigration
I'm glad there's a point of agreement
I just posted all the stats. I'll post all the stats right there at the nest
Okay guys guys guys hold on so I know there's a beautiful lady's voice i'll breathe this you
So i'm gonna go to trash ian and brie if you don't mind brie you haven't spoken at all
So i'd love to go to you right after ian, and there's a few other hands up, but trash i'll let you go
I'm glad we have some sort of agreement with slam and justin and now it's going to get more nuanced after this
Oh, yeah, it's about to because what was going to bring up earlier
Is that one of the motivations for setting up these sanctuary cities and sanctuary states is because our census which is our account of our population
Actually does count undocumented workers now. Why is that important?
Well in certain areas in certain cities if you raise the population of an area you get an additional seat in congress
And this can fundamentally change of how uh, all congress operates
And the balance of power within our congress and house and senate or our house of representatives
So you actually get more based on the on the population. So there is a that's why the sanctuary cities were such a big deal
Because you were actually adding seats, uh to the house based on population even though they are not actual citizens that are technically allowed to vote
That this this is also the part of the argument. All right, cool
I want to go to ian and brie and then I do want to go to just for balance
Go to uh far right right after and then back to sliman and just so ian. I just see
So from hearing sliman and justin, um go back and forth. Where do you where do you think they agree?
What is the core part they disagreeing on? Is it the the benefits versus the the disadvantages of accepting immigrants?
What they agree on what they agree on is that you know, if it's not done, right it's going to cause problems
That's true for pretty much anything where they disagree on is where so liman and correct me if i'm wrong
Even if it's done illegally, right because he says that hey, you know, it helps a lot of uh, well, I guess businesses that use them
You know need them which is which is which is which is let's go back and forth me and you which is a fair statement
I think that but where I and before you jump in
It is the disadvantage is the disadvantages will outweigh those benefits is where you'll probably come in and just disagree
That's not quite what i'm getting at actually what i'm getting at is that we have to analyze why these problems exist
Why is it that there's a shortage of manpower, right? Why do these companies like say farms plantations?
Wineries and so on which use illegal immigration. Why is it that they're so willing to hire?
These illegal immigrants. Why do they need them?
Well, the big reason for it is because they simply charge a lot less money for their work, right?
They're being paid five dollars an hour instead of say 15 or whatever the uh,
Legal requirement is right. They're not being paid minimum wage
You're being paid under minimum wage because it's all done under the table. It's illegal, right? So they're basically skirting local taxes
They're not paying their taxes. Probably when I say they I mean the companies
I don't mean the illegal immigrants for them. I feel like they are victimized in all of this
I feel like illegal immigrants are largely the victims of this. They're not
Benefiting from this not really they're doing this out of hardship out of necessity, right?
So my empathy is to the illegal immigrants. It's not actually too
Against them. Like I don't oppose. I mean them they're just doing what they need to do to survive, right?
So people seem to get me wrong. They think I don't like the legal immigrants. That's not it
I don't like illegal immigration. That's what I don't like. I feel like they're being exploited
I don't feel it. I know it right facts show that they are in fact being exploited by these plantations by these companies
And and the reason why you know if you want to talk about economic benefits
The the existence of illegal immigration causes these problems
Wouldn't you say this problem exists anyway
You don't need immigration for that like look at applewood and the mines in africa
So the problems don't exist in a vacuum mario
The problems are created due to the existence of legal immigration. It's because these companies want to make so much money
They want to make sure that their margins are so big
That's the reason why they hire people on the cheap
Not true. Not true. You cannot find
You cannot find enough people to hand weed anything in the world
Do you mind if I finish and then you can speak later yeah liza
I'll let you I'll let you respond right after he finishes and then you can you can disagree with me afterwards
The point i'm trying to make is that you know, this uh, the low wages wouldn't be so low if it wasn't for illegal immigration
It's the fact that you know local workers like legal workers either legal migrants or citizens of the country, right?
Whether it's america or uk or anywhere else france, asia, right anywhere in asia
They have to compete with these low wage employees these ultra low wage employees that are being paid illegally under the table
Companies will not hire someone. Uh
By giving them their worth they will not pay them 50 an hour where they can hire someone for five dollars and get just as much
Work out of them get get as much productivity out of them. That's the reason why the wages are so deprecated, right?
The problem is manufactured and then now, you know, you're saying well, we need them
Yeah, you kind of need them because you created this problem
But if you get rid of illegal immigration altogether, then the wages will balance out
It will go back up to 15 because companies will not have
Opportunity to exploit the system to exploit these poor migrant workers who you know
Like they're victims in all of this, right? We have to keep that in mind that they're not being paid
And liza i'm letting you go when we call them victims
You're saying that them getting paid a low amount in in a country like the u.s
You're deciding that this is worse for them than wherever they come from wherever they come from could be significantly worse
The reason they're doing that is because it's still a better opportunity for them, you know to know but what
Cartel control place right if they're in say al Salvador or at least, you know, not al Salvador today
But al solvador, I don't know two years ago when it was a crime hellhole, right?
It was of course, it's going to be a lot better than working there because yeah
This is the point and anyone that can speak from experience
And i'm going to go through the comments do share it there whether you have a friend
Let me just tell the audience
Just two seconds before we solve this this problem
Uh anyone in the audience that knows someone or has that experience themselves or is an immigrant or knows an immigrant
Do share that experience in the comments the bottom right purple circle
If you don't want to share it publicly if you want to come up on stage and share it
um and and you're you know, you're comfortable speaking here dm mean and we can maybe bring you up and
And ian before we go to the solution, I do want liza to respond then i'll go to brian allie's back up with us
Hopefully the connection is good. My point. My solution is very simple. Actually, so she can respond up. It'll just take two seconds
Well, not really two, but you know
The solution is to have legal migration to expedite the processes. It shouldn't take 10 or five years
So however long it takes in the united states to become a legal worker
It should be done. It should be expedited very quickly to get a worker's permit should be done very very quickly. Singapore does it very well
Japan does it as well, you know, they have a lot of vietnamese and chinese immigrants legal immigrants who work there
Yes, they're you know, I would say they're well paid
But it's done legally and it's done safely and you know
You can vet them and everything and they're paid fairly relatively fairly now if you know in countries like that people do
Like japanese people do take those low wage jobs because you know
They're they're paying a fair wage and they do have to work alongside the chinese, which you know benefit from this, right?
That's a system that actually works america is not a system that works america is a system that's broken irreparably perhaps
Because they're being paid paid illegally and they're illegal to begin with so they want to be deported
They're not going to report. Uh, you know, okay
Like that they're being abused on you. Let's go. Yeah, let's let's have let's have liza
Okay, let's let's have willing to accept these low wages, right?
And so if you don't want to victimize them, then you expedite the legal process you change all of it
Make sure they're coming. Yeah, we've moved off
Let's have liza replied liza, I know there's a lot of points made there
I'd love you to kind of respond to them before we go to bri and alie
So regard I agree with you ian that there should be a fair wage. There is actually something in going through
legislative process now called the workforce modernization act of 2021
That was introduced in march of 2021 and it's trying to propose changes to the immigration problem
Because farm workers have such a hard time getting
Paid adequately and things like that
So I mean one of the biggest civil rights movements in the united states
Was cesar chevez's movement against using the short-handled hoe el cortito
so farm workers and migrant workers rights is very very on the radar that
People feel like they should be paid fairly. They feel like they should be
the agricultural sector in the united states of america is actively working to try to
Implement those things to make it fairer for farm workers
It's not a bunch of it's not a bunch of rich land old owners wanting to you know, take advantage of people
They cannot find the labor literally you can't even have prisoners prisoners
Don't even want to come and do this kind of thing. They've tried multiple ways
Of getting people get increasing the labor force and i'm not talking about through slavery. I'm talking about
You know rehabilitation out of prison programs you you cannot find the workforce
That matches the demand for this group of people now
You can pay all these people a whole lot more money
But that will translate into higher food prices and that's not because of greed
That's because in order to make these make this financially feasible for farmers
That they have to be able to to at least
Break even on what they grow and so what lies this isn't
Sorry, go ahead. What people don't understand is how
extraordinarily expensive it is to farm
because of all of the regulations around farming
And how scarce of a resource workers are
What did they do 25 years ago
Liza, you know, it's funny to hear you say all of this because these are the exact same arguments that the confederacy made
I am not arguing for slavery. I am telling I am not I am not arguing for slavery. I am telling
You it sounds like you are
I am not defending low wages
I am saying that the biggest civil one of the biggest civil rights movements in the united states was around
Around meeting and I think he was right and joe biden has a bust of
You'd know the history of cesar Chavez. Do you know his attitude?
What was his attitude towards illegal immigrants? Do you remember I thought his attitude of towards illegal immigrants is exactly what?
Wait, wait, wait, what was that? His attitude was he camped
Not like illegal more that didn't like it. He set up camps on the border and
And I agree with you i'm not arguing for illegal immigration. I am not supporting it
I am telling you what the facts on the ground are
I am not arguing that we should be we should be taking advantage of illegal immigrants
So they can get to this country and and and and pay them minimum wage. That is not what i'm saying at all
What I am saying is that the the the we in agriculture have made active measures to try to pay people
What did we do 35 years ago? This isn't even the boon of the california agricultural moment
We had our boon 35 40 years ago. We collected it just fine. Okay, so what?
I I understand. Okay, so what is your solution to the problem? There aren't enough people to work
There is from from the republicans from the republicans there is a move to
Modernize the workforce in agriculture and and that includes paying people a fair wage
But what I am telling you is that the reality on the ground is that that farm
Are very very razor thin and food prices that's not an issue with the work
That's an issue with california, but that's another issue
Justin but you have to I mean liza to be fair in as much as I don't and also I think it's over
Exuberant of us to sort of suggest that you know
What she's arguing isn't a fact and equally is a suggestion that she's advocating for slavery
No, it's not true because the overall economic impact is low for you
Right for you the american. So if we're going to have an honest discussion
About immigration then we should equally understand why we benefit as
On in terms of the food scales that we prep the food price range we pay. Yeah, you like to do it
Don't suggest it's just you know
And and understand this this total workforce only makes up about five percent of your total workforce, right?
So it isn't a problem as you're trying to suggest
But what you want to do is you let let us be honest and point out that they are indeed
Scrupulous farmers who do hire undocumented staff and as a result abuse that but don't make it appear as if it's a general
Overlisting and an equally an epidemic to your labor force
Just a quick point of clarification because we brought up cesar shavez. I want it known the history of this man
Okay, he was in the labor force
It is rough here's what it is
When he saw the limo ignorance or coming across the border
He set up tents at the border and they would beat up anyone who came across the border liza. Just agreed
That was the solution we should have
I'm just saying just know who cesar shavez was
Well someone to build a wall. Listen, it's neither here nor there at the end of the day
Before before just two six far I just two six two six liza
Liza, did you agree just want to make sure because justin said you agreed that cesar shavez solution was the right solution
No, I didn't agree. She didn't say that. She said the opposite
She literally said the opposite, you know
She said she agreed with cesar shavez I want to understand that
I agree with cesar shavez's desire to limit
Illegal and how did he do that? I did not agree that you can so just that she can agree
All right guys, let's just ease it up to stop interrupting each other so it's it's it's normal for someone to agree with
Everyone's trying to speak man. It's very quick breeze been waiting in but breathe because breeze been waiting for so long
Know cesar shavez wouldn't have had to do what he did if the federal government, you know stepped up and actually protected the border
I want to go back to liza liza
I want to simplify the point you made and then go to breathe the point you're making is that
Immigrants are needed to can you make your point in one sentence before I don't want to put words in your mouth one sentence
Immigrants are needed for the functioning of the society
Legal immigration is very tough. I think it needs to be
I mean, I think it needs to be let let a little bit looser because there's a huge need for a workforce
Okay, I don't believe in slavery
I don't believe in and in coercing people to become indentured servants
I think they should they deserve a fair wage
But the reality of the situation is that there is not the workforce to do this
So I think that there's immigration should be legal
I think that people should be paid a fair wage
I think that there is a huge shortage and that's reality, but I am not advocating for illegal
Immigration and i'm not advocating for slavery
So I agree. I agree with liza. Basically the point of what eliza is saying is because the rules in migration are so
What happened is there's illegal immigration occurring and there is a need for you know, right now
Unfortunately, because it's you want a society
Problem is being prolonged
Please it's something you just said one thing and before we go to breed because she's been waiting for a long time
Is that one thing is that the it's difficult for immigrants to enter the u.s. Is that the statement you made?
Yeah, so even now people are giving examples that certain some of the process takes four years
We know that but during those four years, but during those four years, can't they just remain in the u.s?
I don't understand the system in that one. No, no, they can stay in the u.s
But my point is this well, however
Yeah, my point is this whatever the situation is in terms of becoming a legal migrant in the u.s
It's not enough to deal with the infrastructure in the united states and hence why there's a need for illegal immigration
If these illegal immigrants could get into the u.s. Legally, there wouldn't be illegal immigrants in the first place
Can I can I just clarify one thing and that one thing is
When i'm when i'm talking about immigration i'm talking about immigration as a whole so I mean all aliens either rather legal or illegal
It doesn't matter what race you are. It doesn't matter what country
I want to ask you a question, but first I want to give the mic to brie because i've been promising the mic to her
For a while. Thank you mario. I appreciate that and i'll tell you what my question is christian
So you can know it in advance and it's it just i'm digressing away from the point
But i'm genuinely curious why we use the word aliens. Um, i'm not saying i'm not saying it's a derogatory word
It's illegal. It's a legal term. Okay. It's the legal term in the immigration nationality. Okay. I'll take back my
Okay, that take back my question right then it's just a legal term cool
Brie i'll give you the mic and christian
I want to I want to hear your point because I saw you put a lot of thumbs down when liza was speaking
So I want to understand why but brie go ahead, please
Thank you so much, um, I just wanted to make a point so imon you had um mentioned earlier
Then need uh the demographic winter that uh, particularly we're seeing in the uk and europe
It is quite different in the united states and even with the demographic winter that we are seeing in europe infrastructure is not
Supporting the the mass immigration and open border policy that the u is having
Um, which is putting a massive massive stress on the infrastructure. We're seeing that in
Paris we're seeing it in italy here
So I I think that's another topic to discuss because the demographic winter is in existence in europe end and we are seeing
You know the impacts of economy to support an influx of new individuals coming in
Um, I think it's also an important point to make
mario when we were discussing a little bit about the
The the influx of illegal immigrants into the united states and how you know
If if it was easier if there was an easier way for people to become legal how that would be beneficial to the united states
Um, I think it's really important to identify that the the amount of resources that have been placed
whether it's in the judicial system
The administrative side to track
To engage to support illegal immigrants coming to the united states are hindering
Those who are seeking to come into the united states
Legally, and it is an important point to make as well that most
Most countries forget or most people forget that back in the 1600s 1648
Uh the piece of westphilia, which was uh, that really the first
Sovereignty and national sovereignty in the right of countries to permit
Who they wish to allow to immigrate into their country
Um, and one of the the big things about westphilia was integration into culture and country
Which we aren't seeing in sadly in europe
integration into culture and country whether whether the european countries themselves are not
Accepting those new immigrants or the new immigrants coming in are bringing in their own cultures as we've seen in the united states
The melting pot is is very unique. So um
So what do you mean by what do you mean by cultures?
So it's it's it's whether um religion it's whether um whether it is um traditions
Let me let me help you with this
Please explain briefly. Let's see how he goes with this
What i'm what i'm saying is this is this is just the reality of the situation
The united states is was extraordinarily founded by immigrants into the country
Right. So with the melting pot mentality
Um integration was a little bit easier because of the diversity of the country the foundation
It's not the same in europe. And so we are seeing this stress that is being placed on on both
The cultural as well as the um, go go with you. And what did you hear with the information?
I'm not understanding your point. What is the evidence of what you think? Hold on farai. Hold on. Hold on farai
Stay with us farai. You're a great speaker, but cement go back and forth
I want to see where you're going with this and then yeah
I'm not understanding what your point is because you're saying that the us was founded by immigrants
It had immigrants of diverse backgrounds, then you keep using the word melting point, which doesn't doesn't mean anything
So in terms of the that's like a very
American phrase that's like the core american phrase melting pot american
The melting pot is is very particular to the united states explain it
So what it what it really is is that you could even see it within the country like say in boston, massachusetts
Where we have italians and irish
Marrying in and creating families very different cultures
But foundationally in the united states they became
Um, it's like what I said the melting pot. It's this this combination of diversity, which is very unique to the united states
It's not as unique in europe and that's why you're seeing a lot of the tensions that we're saying in europe
In particular the acceptance of those immigrants and refugees. What's your point? What's your point with your questions?
I actually don't get have I don't get I don't get a brief point
I mean I if you're trying to say and I I don't want to put words in them
Obviously because i'm trying to ask more and more questions because then I want to do drama
One way to put it so long. I'm trying i'm trying to say it's very different in the united states when it comes to
Explain the difference it means there's no okay. I'll give you the difference
The difference is no one immigrates to france
Just before just before I let you I let you answer to someone said he wants to be direct
So someone be direct and then justin respond
Let just respond first before I have to be direct no be direct come on
Right, so when you're saying italian and whatever right
So basically are you saying and when he says different to europe?
Are you saying that essentially in the u which is not true by the way, but are you saying in the u.s?
What makes it different is you have certain types of?
And not other types of immigrants who are not white. Okay. So what do you mean? Please explain because I still don't get you
Here's the no one immigrates to france to become french
No one emigrates to italy to become italian
You immigrate to the united states and you desire to become an american
The phrase melting pot goes back a hundred plus years to 1908. It was a phrase used to talk about this notion that you had a
Just an I understand it but you're not explain even then you've not explained yeah because even if you look at just the argument
Guys nothing has changed from an immigration statistical perspective since 18 18
To 1920 the numbers are still the same 14 percent of your population is still made up by immigrants
So there's a lot of radical shifts. So when you even question the aspect of a simulation i'm curious to find out
What are you basing it on?
I agree for the reason. I believe the reason they're not being directed because either they don't want to be
About their views or they just what are you talking about?
Statistics look at the prince university statistics. They're right there. I can put them up. Are you talking about legal or illegal?
All right, so man, so man, I don't know okay so man, uh, it would answer so far I help me out here
What is the point just mario
America used to have civics class is no longer is the case nowadays. You're not told to become an american anymore
It's no longer cool to wave the patriotic flag anymore
You don't stand up for the national anthem anymore. America has lost its way
America has lost its cultural identity once upon a time back in the back in the day, you know 60 years ago
I would say and even before that obviously well before that
Americans, you know like immigrants used to go to america and want to become american, right?
Like that was the dream even in the 1980s
I would say that a vast majority of say even asians, right the dream was to go to america
I remember growing up. Some of my friends were like, yeah, I want to go to america one day
It seems like it's really cool become an american because they had no love for whatever culture they came from right?
They wanted to become to embrace americanism
This was the case for a lot of europeans like eastern europeans when they became american
Uh, they integrated pretty well because of this but that's no longer the case nowadays nowadays people go to america
They fucking hate america
They don't see america as being you know, it definitely does hand them out a lot of good things
But they don't see it as the place where you live out the american dream
So who are these two questions?
Who are these different people who here this is a problem
Yeah, okay, so it's not that wasn't me yes, yeah, that was me. Sorry
I'm not like I don't think anyone on this panel is blaming the immigrants for not loving america
And I don't think that's the case
I think the the issue here is that americans have lost their way america as a whole
Has lost what it means to be an american used to be proud to be american. Exactly
Actually, but you'll find that immigrants
But that's fine, but then why are we even talking about this in immigration there's
I feel like this is just an out now because no one
Yeah, yeah guys. No. No, you know when someone says a point and it's not the point you think they mean
It's not them being directed. Just don't worry
How am I gonna explain something they mean i'm trying to understand their point as well so i'm asking questions
Yeah, also i'll let you go because you're the voice of reason here
Um, can you tell me can you?
Jesus yeah, take it easy. So can you do me a favor before going on a story?
Can you explain the point that uh, justin and brie are saying can you explain why this is triggering slaman and faray?
And then explain where ian comes in
Not triggering slaman and faray and then I would love to get ian's point that came in how that relates to it also
So I think in a porn aspect right when we're when we look at us demographics, right?
Because that's the conversation about immigration. Also before you go
I just said don't go on a story. I'm gonna answer your point. Okay, good. Cool. Thanks
I'm gonna answer your point in 10 minutes when we're talking
Let me read my book and then i'll tell you i'll answer your point
So when we're talking about the melting pot, right?
I think what people need to realize that by 2045 right because when you look at the united states, you know, white christian european, right?
That's what people would think about
But I think one of the important aspects why we're talking about the melting pot. That's what I was getting at
That's what's wrong because it's a contradiction of an open fight
That goes but also I was waiting for that's actually when I was going and i'm glad you've been direct about it
This is what I was going but let's be clear
So why christian is not american american is different the founding fathers were not christian the founding
founding fathers were they were absolutely they were christians they were christians
Can you make your point and then I want ben to speak as well and then we'll go let me make it i'm helping you out man
The the melting pot comes into right? So when you look at american, it's like white
Right because historically u.s has always been predominantly that by 2045 the latest statistics shows
That america is going to be a minority white country in other words
Although my nor al the whites will be the largest demographic. They will be by below 50
And so in other words the united states in his the first time probably in history
Will be a multi-ethnic racial democracy in which one group does not have over 50 percent of representation
That is not in europe. That is not in asia
That is not anywhere but in the united states and that is directly correlated with the united states
And immigration and so the question is there's a lot of people when we're having this conversation that feel very uncomfortable with that
And others like myself who think that's a benefit, but that I think is the term. I have no problem with that at all
I have no problem at all. I'm not all about culture. Like I want to know how many immigrants come here
I'm not saying you do nothing you do
Justin the point that I was making earlier silly man is that I was trying to differentiate
Between the demographic winter that you brought up with regards to europe and what we're seeing in europe and how it is different
Quite different in the united states because of the foundation of our country being
A melting pot that it is easier for immigrants to integrate within the united states because everything is so diverse anyways
And we're seeing that growth of diversity
As was just referenced. I I think it's also a false equivalent to try and compare the united states to europe
Considering that yes, it's very different. No, no
I mean that the areas we can look at for analysis perspectives and we can do a means and range test
But it's europe is 27 countries america is just one state
Okay, hold on just to say just on the saman I want to go to ben but before that
Yeah before you rebut your point just something about the founding fathers so the founding fathers
America, you know, two sex before you go on please
Just quickly as saman you said the founding fathers were not christian
Some of them were deists. So who believed in a higher power but reject you rejected organized religion
George Washington was a deist benjamin
And the rest and the rest were christians this is not it has been well established within
The historical community that america was built upon judeo christian ethics. Okay, that's not a white
But still an open society a democratic
Guys guys, please everyone
When the united states was founded go look at the right. Okay. Justin. I don't know if you hear me speaking
I don't know. I don't know if you hear me when i'm speaking bro
But i'm making your point when the united states was founded the vast majority of americans identified as christians
According to some estimates as much as 98 percent of the population. I can't hear mario. Sorry. Okay. Oh good
Let me let me move justin and bring him back. Um
according to some estimates
Okay in in in uh, oh trash i'm not sure who's speaking guys
As let me finish the point as much as 98 percent of the population identified as christian with the majority belonging to various
The remaining percentage included small numbers of catholics jews and other religious groups doesn't even mention was islam
So 98 percent were christians
So slaman for you to come in and say that some of the founding fathers did not believe in god
And that's the reason that it was not built on on on christianity
And i'm not i'm not saying I disagree with your other points on that particular point is i think it's just a very unfair way
Of character characterizing i hope you allow me to come back on it
Yeah, go ahead peace. I'm not gonna be able to actually make the point without like 100 interruptions. Yeah, so basically
Just think about what you just said
And I agree with it. So 98 percent allegedly of the country was christian, right?
And yet if you look at the constitution, it has no link to religion at all
It says uh as if I remember it was like one people under god. It didn't even say christianity
It didn't say anything like that, right because that was the
Entire idea of the constitution
The second point what I was trying to make was that the actual founding fathers a number of them and most of the pivotal ones
Uh were day masons and they were daystick, right?
And the third point is this this whole idea of judo christian is a fake notion that has been created very recently
It where was the judo christian in that time? No, there wasn't
Let's just go christianity instead of judo
Get in the press at that time. Okay, so
Is a very different to christianity
Farah i'll let you add your point to slam into before I respond as an american
What did you say? I said, I would like to speak on this as american
What was the the raccoon raccoons are an american animal so yeah, I agree. Okay, it's a fair statement before I go ahead and then we'll go to
Soleimani is coming from and equally those that that you know that that protects the aspect of being christian i'm a christian myself
The reason why I think the point is redundant though
Is that america irrespective of who founded it and what religion they were inclined to be associate
They did not make it a theocracy
Well by inclination and so forth. They did they are not it's not at your at theocratic state
Therefore because they chose to be an open society at democracy
We are we judge them accordingly
Therefore if equally or rather in addition when you try to make the case that well immigration in assimilation and so forth
Actually, you're inviting theme. Your constitution is your national DNA
So you are saying to me that you made a good point. Okay, so so so guys if salamani farai
I and i'm not a christian so I don't even the whole concept of religion
I'm not a fan of but I still understand the argument that is being made
Um salam no one made the argument that only christians are allowed into the country saying culturally speaking
The u.s. Was 98 percent christian and there's other cultural aspects of the u.s
That is changing due to immigration. So I want to understand do you disagree that and i'm not saying it's a bad thing
I don't think it is but that's for the u.s to decide for citizens
I actually don't think that's the point. I think the the point that I was making earlier was that in europe
That's the case. What's the case in europe? That is changing
Culturally the culture is changing because of immigration. Okay, it's changing because of the demographic winter
Which suleiman was appointing to people are not having children
And so I wanted to bring up a point and then i'll i'll be happy to go off stage mario
We talked about this earlier
Um with this open border type situation that we are seeing and we're facing
In the very near future in the united states, but we're also seeing a massive amount of illegal immigration
In europe. The only differences of that in europe. There is an open borders where in the united states
The idea of open borders is fairly new
In the very near future in the united states, but we're also seeing it in europe comes
Um a very serious issue of um trafficking in persons in particular children
New york times just did a report this past month that got no coverage
It's an important report. I put it up in the in the nest about children being used. We were talking about earlier
You know cheap labor children being put into slaughterhouses children being used on farms
Children are this is cool. So this has been used by americans. So do you shut the immigration down or the american?
Yeah, all right. I was about to make that point. So I think this is a problem
I wouldn't look at that as an immigration problem. I look at that the way immigrants are being handled or
Another we should solve that problem
Rather than image that kind of paint immigration as a problem if that makes sense
This is an aspect of the way we're dealing with immigration, but one still worth discussing brean
I think it's an important point. I do want to go back to slaman's argument early and ben has been waiting so patiently
Um and brea, I think uh, no heather recommended ben to come up
So I would love to give ben the mic right after
But saman the argument being made the way at least I understand it
At first I want to get your stance what I wanted to ask you is do you agree that that culturally speaking?
Um and the whole concept of a melting point kind of alters the culture. I'm not saying it's bad or good. I'm saying
Factually that is that a face statement or do you even disagree with that? Mario Mario before before you answer all that
Uh, I just want to say I want to pop out. Can you uh add ryan girdusti to the stage?
Sure. Sure. Yes. Can you can you dm me?
Yeah, man, so i'll pop out and you can invite him. Yeah, DM me DM me his hands on what's up. We'll do thanks
All right, we'll go back to uh, so
Okay, I will thanks. Yes, sir
So man, uh the question, I love how een just gives me orders
But say man, uh, if you can ask that question you need to comply
I know I need to comply. Yeah, it's een
I feel like he's right next to behind me with a gun to my head
Back to the question, please stay serious. So do you
Factually speaking what I said
It's accurate correct again. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but immigration alters a culture face statement
One first statement because the united state wasn't built on a specific culture or on a specific
I'm not even saying the u.s. Was built on a culture
The u.s had a certain culture when it was founded and had a certain culture a hundred years ago
Now this culture itself changes naturally
All I hear people talk about all the time, which I agree with that the constitution is very important
If the constitution fell it was I didn't mention I didn't mention I didn't mention
Because the entire fabric of the u.s
And what the what u.s is what america is the culture of u.m america what they want is
Open society in the constitution if I think this is I'll put this
I would add this the constitution will put it as values
Okay, so does the u.s want to keep the u.s
Did the u.s when they founded the country did they want to keep the u.s white or christian or whatever culture aspect you want to use?
That's a different discussion to the constitution
It tells you what I want. Yeah, I know but i'll say what they want. I'm just saying as a culture as they want an open society
If your answer question is is the culture changing yes, it is there's a variety of reason why
The culture is changed but not the culture culture is wrong the wrong word. I apologize to take it back
The reason why the demographic in the united states is changing is a multitude of reasons
Yes, the immigration is a reason another is another reason is because the liberal leftist value
The white birth rate is decreasing significantly. There's a significant reason why this is happening
So again, just blame it just on immigration. Isn't the reason there's a
I do want to go to ben and if everyone keeps jumping in we're not going to get chance to hear his thoughts on this
But to kind of finish this point so we can move on
Uh, i'm going to define culture for you sliman
Because I mean basically white women are not even having children. They're all right. I didn't ask you if white women are having children
I'm asking you my question again. Okay. I don't support culture
Okay, so so all right. Sorry. Sorry. So the question is
I used to love it. I still travel I used to travel on almost weekly basis and i've seen cultures around the world when you go from
to norway to south africa
Cultural differences are very evident
Okay, and there's certain aspects and i'll define culture the ideas customs and social behavior of particular people or society so the ideas
Customs and social behavior now when a country's when the borders are closed up
You can go to an extreme example like north korea when the borders are completely closed up
That culture is a lot less likely to change when the borders are opened up and
They accept immigration a lot more, you know
Look at dubai for example dubai the majority of the population are people that came from other countries. They they're
The culture is completely changed if you go to dubai and go to yemen or go to sira go another arab country
Easy to see the difference because they've just opened up their borders for economic purposes. So
Culture does is it does it shift faster? Does it change not evolve?
Because immigration is opened up and again, i'm not saying it's a bad thing
I just want you to at least accept this fact because hard to refute it and if you refute it
That's fine. We'll go to ben anyway
Okay, I just added something to the top, uh, I just wanted to okay, hold on yeah, and please add brian kudratsky, please
I will I will I will I will I will I will I will I promise you
Yeah, you can watch the documentary that I posted at the time. I produced it
By law and southern it's about american. It's american mirage
chronicles the legal migration and caribbean crisis throughout mexico and how
The failure to enforce consistent and real border policies has resulted in a hellish pandemonium for migrants mexicans and americans
So that's all I wanted to say please that ryan and i'm going to go back to listening
Thanks a lot. Um, I think uh sliman glitched out
So while waiting for sliman actually far I let you answer for sliman because I think you guys were making similar points
Mike you heard my statement love to get your thoughts on it for right and then we'll go to ben
I think I think the cycle of culture
It so the reason why I think it's important to always look at things within the
With the within the context of that society is because of the peculiarities that the society presents
So if you look at the history of global development
It will tell you that society is naturally when they have
You know a mixture they are shifting culture. Okay, sorry
You just if you look at if you look at so let's look at the arab states that you've just mentioned
They have still been able to retain their culture even though there are people that are divergent
But this is avoiding the question no, but it's culturally speaking when you go. Have you been to dubai?
No, but mario mario allow me to make my point. My point is this
Constitution decided what kind of society they wanted to create and they talked about
Plurality when open society and being open, right?
So in that particular vein they create the society that they have they they have cited within the nation
The national dna. I don't look at yeah
The arab states have said and these are theocracies by the way
They will preserve their culture according to the sort of uh determinate values that they have established from a foundational perspective
So you have to look at the peculiarity of that particular society in order to be conclusive. So it's not general
And it's i'm gonna let you
Christian i'll give you the mic. I do want to go to ben but sam and i'll let you answer just to be fair
Did you hear my question? No, no, I didn't get it glitched out
Okay, um, look I think you've answered it for right
Using i'll just kind of conclude using the constitution what was written back then
Um, which was what how many years or 236 years ago?
Using the constitution that was written 236 years ago and saying it should apply today
The constitution should apply but the people the the founding fathers
Probably didn't envisage the world we live in today didn't envisage
The ability to move from one country to another
I understand but you're kind of moving away from the point
Immigration it's hard to refute the fact that mario. I think we've got a lot of americans here
They agree with you that the constitution is just outdated and we've got you know
No, I didn't say they got that nice way to put my words words in my mouth
I'm just saying that the founding fathers wanting the us to be open wanting different cultures to come in fair
Saying this is the same argument could be used for the other
Rights that are in the constitution like the right to bear arms like so this is we're moving away to a different point
Trash go ahead trash go ahead and then we'll go to bank. Thank you
All right. So john adams one of the founding fathers
What he said was our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people
It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other
Morality and virtue are a foundation of our republic and necessary for a society to be free
And when you bring up the bill of rights, and i'm just going to land on this because that would be quick
the bill of rights were were
The founding fathers did not write the constitution as a bill of rights as rights given by the government
These are actually rights that were given ordained by god that were natural rights
That should be inalienable not being able to take it away as a protection from the government
And so this is a fundamental understanding of what the what they said now to be fair
Yes, 98 percent christian or or or in that vein 100 percent
But there's nowhere in the constitution that it says you have to be christian
They said you need to be a moral and religious people and that could mean many different religions
And I think and that's what they wanted. That's why it's not in the constitution
But you have to understand of how they viewed this and this was
What they believed is an alien rights given by god not by government and this is a fundamental understanding of our constitution
And so immigration is a big piece of that 100 percent
But there also needs to be a foundational war religious people and and assimilation within the culture
That's why legal immigration is so important. How and if i trash my question
No, no, i'm so let me ask a question
Let me go to ben and then we'll go back to that discussion because and i'll bring i'll mention the point
I was mentioning before you had you glitched out slaman
But ben you've heard the the argument that was being made by slaman and farai you've you've heard my question as well
Um about immigration changing a culture now i'm not gonna ask you whether you know allowing immigration changes a culture
Um, it's not evolves but changes a culture. Uh, instead i'm gonna ask you. Do you think that's a bad thing a good thing and why?
I think it all depends on who is making the change and thank you for giving me a minute to do this
I only have a couple minutes. Uh, it's what's happening in america is an absolute disaster
And it's on purpose legal immigration
Uh, yeah, it built our country. My wife came here
She was refugee or family were refugees from laos escaping communism came to america to become americans
And that's been the history of america up until the last
Up until the progressive movement that wanted to destroy this country and what we're talking about now isn't immigration and uh, you know
Going i mean there's a lot of different points. It's not a minute amount of
Criminals that are coming across the border
We're talking thousands that are coming across the border and they're coming across the border in larger numbers now because
We don't have operational control of the border
Uh, that's by done by design there whether you like them or not president trump gave us the most secure border
We've ever had not just because of the wall, but mainly because of the
His intention was to secure this country for the citizens of this country
And and by implementing the remain in mexico policy, that was probably the number one most important thing
But it wasn't just the policy of remain in mexico
It was the pressure he put on mexico to abide by the remaining mexico policy mexico for all intents
Exactly is is basically a failed narco state and many of the countries in central america are failed narco states
I just came up, uh on saturday. I came back from el salvador
I was down there with bukelli's people you guys were talking about ms13
There's a and when we talk about quality of of immigrants, we can you know, whatever words you want to use
There is a massive cultural difference between somebody who has grown up in a culture where death where murder is
Is unacceptable and where death is common and we're talking about
Assimilating tens of thousands of young people right now into our country who who know nothing
But death and destruction there's a reason why we have a legal immigration process and it's it's
explicitly for the purpose of protecting this nation america's
Number one job the representatives of this nation's number one job are to represent the people the citizens and the constitution of this nation
And as soon as we have this
Situation that we have now where we actually have organizations within america whose aim is to undermine america
And that's what we have going on right now. These these leftist NGOs
So they're operating on our southern border
Um, hang on hang on i've sat through and listen for for two hours on this
Just let me finish my point real quick these leftist NGOs like catholic charities like lutheran social services
There's about nine primary organizations that operate on this down on the southern border
They operate on the u.s side of the border in the mexico side of the border
They're operating in conjunction with the cartels and they're profiting off of this mass illegal migration now whether or not
It's good whether or not it's filling a birth rate number
Um, it it's irrelevant to the point that it's intentionally designed to undermine our country
There's no question about it immigration is important to this country legal immigration
But illegal immigration by far has more negative impacts on our culture on our society
Than it does positive and if you if you want to take hit and run it for instance
The the question is how many deaths are you willing to have unnecessary deaths?
And all you have to do is look at the number of angel families in our country
These are families who have been killed by illegal aliens
The average is around 5 000 a year that that number increases or you look at the number of fentanyl deaths
We have derrick moltz on here former dea
Agent look at the the amount of fentanyl that's coming in and killing our country
Precursors from china coming to mexico being shipped across our country. What we have on our southern border
Is is a death sentence for this nation if we allow it to continue?
It's it's it's not even I mean it's infuriating honestly to listen to other people from other countries talk to us
About what's happening in america. I escaped california. I live in a rural, uh, midwestern state now
but it california is a shithole, uh
And it's because of policies by the left that have been invited that have invited this cancer
Of anti-american leftism to to breed into our country to the point where we're indoctrinating children to hate this country
And we're bringing in people who have act who who?
Disdain this country who have active disdain for this country rather than saying if you want to come to this country
And there's a reason why uh more people choose this country to immigrate than any other country in the world
It's because the freedom that this country used to offer but very soon
That's that's going to change and it's it's in the process of changing if it doesn't stop
We're we're teaching children to hate this country
We're teaching children not to respect the the rule of law and authority. We we took prayer out
You want to talk about where this can you point to the evidence?
All you have to look at is is go to a school in california
If you haven't been there do me a favor go to a school and look at the people the number of students that stand up for
The pledge of allegiance. What is it about the califonian education system that tells you that they taught to hate because I lived through it
I lived through it. It's life experience
And being chanted no borders no walls. No usa at all
This is this is the mindset and if you don't believe me just go there there is so is that the aspect of the policy
And can I I'll give you a reference I will give you 100 percent of reference
In the mexico versus u.s soccer game this was in 2009 I believe in california
Whenever the mexico team would score and it's in america. They would chant. Osama. Osama
Well, michelle. Osama as you know
Came out publicly saying that prior to her husband being elected that you didn't have a reason to be proud of the country
Very interesting stuff. That's but that's even though even though what ben harpus and stuff that ben has said he cannot support in
I'll be happy to see the staff. Yeah one hundred percent
All you have to do is look at the grants that are coming over the border that are actually committing crimes
Yeah, yeah, look at look at uh center for immigration studies look at federation of immigration
I'm happy to look at it. What what is the statute pointing that that's what i'm saying?
I'm not i'm not going to give you it's very easy suleiman to say give me the stat. Give me the stat. Give me the stat
Based on the evidence that i've seen it's an absolute disaster and what we see going on right whether you want to believe it
Or not, and I think you're biased not to believe it
Hang on hang on I think you're biased not to believe it because the worldview that you grew up in the sanctuary
It's it's very simple. It's very suleiman. It's very simple. What we have going on right now
We have cartels profiting off of human traffic. So so it's a big big
Ben that wasn't me who's who's debating with you. But yeah, thanks for mentioning my name. I appreciate it
Yeah, that was that was for right. No, no, but it's cool. He's making some good points anyway
But uh, let let for I finish and then i'll come to you ben go for it for us
Anyway, the point I wanted to make was that you know
If you look at your sanctuary counties a good example of that, right your average of 30 there's an average of 30.5
Uh a percent fewer crimes per 10 percent per 10 000 people, right?
And these are sanctuary counties considering the entirety, right?
And and this whole argument that you know immigrants if you look at the data from 1990 to 2013
There are more people that are commuting crime that are born and live in america
The immigrants themselves assimilate to your culture. They are looking to uh to be accepted
Yes, they may support a different football team, but you can't use that as evidence of them actually hating america
That's almost ignorant, but I hate to say that it is could I say
Okay, a little a little a little tiny factual thing because there was a lot
I've been writing on immigration for well over a decade
There's a lot of things that have been said in the space that are completely factually incorrect
So when you're looking at crime statistics americans versus immigrants
What you have to sit there and understand is that the crime rate of black americans is something like five to six
Times higher than not only than the average latin american, average immigrant
You have the average american as a whole so when you deduct the average crime rate from black americans from uh
To regular people know the percentages of crimes being committed in sanctuary cities is larger than the average american one
Two when you break it down by crime. Yes, they commit average of lower levels of violent crime
They do commit average average crimes like identity theft in disproportionate numbers
They commit some property crimes in disproportionate numbers
Um, it is not to sit there and say that they're all the same
No, they're not all murderers
But when you actually account for crime based upon race and demographics in the united states, it is illegal aliens
Undoubtedly bring bring bring uh bring crime to uh to the country. It's not without and that's without, you know, the gangs and what?
Yeah, but right. So are you saying oh, sorry. Sorry. So you're saying that illegal immigrants
The whole bit the illegal. So obviously the crime is that they're illegal
So therefore they're gonna be having illegal documentation stuff like that. So that's fine with the actual violent crime. They're disproportionately less. Did you sir?
I know I so so violent crimes they have they have not disproportionate less
They have slightly less than american citizens
But when you deduct black americans from those totals because black americans have disproportionately higher crime rates than the average american
But why are black americans been included in illegal?
Illegal I did I did not say they I did not say they did I said when you deduct them from the average american
Illegal aliens have higher proportions of crime. I just want to understand your point ryan
You're basically saying we've got america take black people out of it. And now
No, no when you know when you know
That's not what he's saying you're taking you're taking okay
Let's say there's a population where one where 13 percent and and the specific
Specificity six or seven percent which are the young male population of that of that group when you just when you look at them
And they've create, you know, something like 70 percent of not 70 violent crime, but like 60 of violent crime
And disproportionate waves in those groups of people
Deducted them from average hispanic americans average
Average white americans average aged americans. Yes, they do have higher levels of disproportionate crime, especially among certain crimes like identity theft
It's not it's not even a close medicaid fraud welfare fraud huge populations of fraud
Not not all crime is simply murder. There are many many different types of crime some illegals
Commit at a disproportionate rate to americans others. They don't but when you deduct black americans, especially the violent crime statistics
That's when you have illegal alien numbers showing larger levels than the average american
Yeah, so basically what you're saying is what you're saying
What you're saying ryan is essentially if you
Take obviously the illegal immigrants or a lot of these things
They're obviously going to they're going to be crimes when they can do anything within that including getting medical care
Whatever it may be but when you actually look at violent crimes
They're less and then what you're saying is take black americans out because they're disproportionately higher in their crime rate
And the reason for that is because obviously when we look at the data
they're basically more financially disenfranchised and it's actually the financial disenfranchisement of
Taxment that's causing it but you're saying let's take them out and now compare them to like wealthy people
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not true
That's not no that's factually inaccurate to sit there and say that only you know, white people financially accurate in new york city
For example the poorest population of people are asian americans. They commit the least amount of crimes. They have the least jail
They have the highest graduation rates and oftentimes it's not because of black americans are poor because uh,
Because black immigrants general crime is
traditional black americans, um, it usually has to do with father fatherlessness in the home is a bigger
i'm trying well, hold on let me let me try to get trying to get some numbers
Um, so so ryan i've been the whole time you look you're speaking
I'm just trying to get some percent. It's so difficult to get some numbers
Do you have any statistics on what a violent crime what percentage of violent crime?
Um is by uh immigrants or illegal immigrants. Do you have any statistics?
I want to know so the so so the f so the uh, so the fbi does not collect crime data
Or sorry, not the fbi but the bureau of I guess the fbi would be the bureau of crime
They do not collect data based upon
Like let's say immigration status in the sense of were
Was a person born here when before they committed the crime, right? They do look at they do look at illegality, but not
Not nash not nationalization. So let's say someone comes here illegally becomes naturalized and then becomes then commits a crime
That would not be added into any data. The only state that ever assessed that data is the state of texas and texas found
Certain crimes were overwhelming certain certain crimes had illegal immigrants committing overwhelming proportions
So immigrants created as I said identity theft crime at a larger rate than the average american. That's just one
Example of some crimes that they do commit they don't commit all crimes at equal levels
But they do commit certain crimes that above
At above the rate that average americans do so it's not fair to sit there and say they don't commit crimes at all
Right, right, right larger than america. I don't think
Say they did not say that they did not commit crimes said you cannot say they don't commit crimes more than the average american
Yeah, there's two really important points on this too is you're talking about sanctuary
You mentioned sanctuary cities
I again coming from california
Which is a sanctuary state as ryan was saying they actually most of these states don't track
They in fact as law enforcement you weren't allowed to ask somebody's legal status
So much of this crime goes unreported whether the person was legal or illegal
Uh, it's it's it's it's not even allowed to be tracked in many of these places
But my the the bigger point I was uh making
Is this regardless of that and I actually think having having traveled through the darian gap having traveled to south america to columbia
And all these countries in between
Um, I don't even blame the people that are coming, you know
I mean a lot of people that are coming to america
I was making a point that was raised by the american immigration council. They have that data
And and this is the argument that they're making you guys have not been able to source any data points
You've said you've said what the institutions that actually
Uh, well regulate crime are able not to do but i'm telling your organization that focuses on this primarily based in your
They do not have that data. Yeah, does anyone well, this is the case that they make so why don't you have that data?
They don't collect the data so therefore they don't have
Let me tell you what the what argument they make I think there
I think that would be a reputable institution to rely upon right? That's what they focus on
They say statistics show that immigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be legal and there's a difference
This document hold on I understand the difference
This document that i'm reading is based on data focused primarily on illegal immigrants and immigrants
But I think ben's point is that they're not
But if you don't track the data, how can you say that?
Okay, so hold on. So hold on if they if they okay, if they're if they're okay
I want to understand your guy's argument you're saying you don't have the data, but you're arguing passionately
Against an institution an institution focused on tracking illegal immigrants and immigrants in general
My argument is there should not be
They do not have no what I said
No, the only state that yeah ryan ben just
Give you one because I know you're behind me the same point, but just one at a time
I can't hear ben. I couldn't hear him. I'm sorry
If you can't if you still can't hear him, I can bring him down and up it's a glitch
But go ahead ryan. I think you were speaking and then ben right after
No, i'm saying I mean the only state that ever collected that data in a conclusive way was the state of texas
Anyone else and anyone and anyone who says that they have data the federal government
Yes, wait, i'm not i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna i want you to talk more
But just on the point you said regarding texas. So can you tell me what data texas has? Can you repeat it again?
I mean I could pull it up. Uh, if you give me or if you if you remember as well
It's fine. No, it was a couple of years ago
They did it once there was a push spot
While trump was president for the for the government to start releasing the data and collecting the data
They never did under the trump administration. It would have been
amazingly importantly valuable other countries like let's say denmark for example denmark if you are arrested in denmark, let's say well
they will not only release your nationality and
Your the like your birth, but they will also release
uh, if you are if you came there as a green card holder or whatever the equivalent a green card holder would be
They would they would say if you were second generation and where your parents came from there's a lot of data
That is available in europe when it comes to immigration and crime that is simply not available here
We do not collect the data whatsoever
I will look at the texas. So ryan i'm just gonna i just quickly googled it and
Whoever's jumping in i'll give you the mic right after but i'm gonna read out
I just touched it now texas is one of the states
Is one of the states in the u.s that has collected data on the crime rate by immigrants versus native citizens?
In 2019 the department the texas department of public safety released a report that analyzed crime rate for the years
2011 to 2018 before i keep reading. Is that the one you're referring to?
Uh, I don't I don't know. I i'm not I don't have a link to it mario
So we can be like yeah, so so the report found that immigrants both legal and
Undocumented in texas had a lower crime rate than native born americans. Okay. I found I found
I found the thing. I found the right. Can you sorry, can we can we stop this right? Yeah, go ahead. Right. No
Yeah, the data shows the data shows that the average native born american commits 3.1 homicides
Per hundred thousand the average illegal commits 2.2 homicides per 100,000 the average legal
Okay, so the average native born american is 3.1 murders per 100,000 the average illegal is 2.2 murders per 100,000
The average legal is 1.3 murder per 100,000
However, when you look at things aside from homicide, and this is from kato
I'm sure they're sitting there in north. So average sex crimes illegal immigration 11.7 illegal 21.1
Um, so just to just to stop there on the first numbers you gave ryan and correct me if I got it wrong
Um, but he said native born had a crime rate of 3.1 per hundred thousand and
Per hundred thousand which is less right and then legal even had significantly less per hundred thousand
So based on those the number is based on the study
You mentioned ryan the numbers of uh crime the the percentage crime of illegal and legal immigrants is less than native born americans based on the study
Well, no, the question was the question was illegal, correct? I mean, that's what the original argument people were saying
Was it illegal argument? You're making is go to the illegal numbers
Go to the legal number. Hold on
So the argument you're making ryan is illegal versus legal or illegal and legal versus native as well
No, I mean well what I said to you what I said before originally when I said crime there are certain crimes that
illegal that illegal aliens commit at a disproportionate rate like identity theft which I never I never read that study
Identity theft just see on that one there ryan identity theft will be like you'd expect illegal immigrants to mainly be responsible for that
Because they need an id. Yeah, no, no, it's not okay. Uh,
If I could jump in on this the the point the the entire point of this is regardless of whether they commit more or less
Again, if we take the statistics into consideration if you actually take the statistic go to california where supposedly they have
7 of the population is illegal
But 29 of the population that's incarcerated is illegal again
If they're actually the numbers are accurate, which I don't believe they are the the point that I make is
They there shouldn't be any crimes all of those crimes now
I don't think you know, no crimes are good. No murders are good
But those people shouldn't be in the more to heaven make the cut
They shouldn't be in the country to begin with so we're saying that oh well, they don't commit more crimes
Well, they're still committing crimes. So when you take kate steinley, for example, she would be alive
That's one person would be alive today if her murderer, uh, wouldn't have killed her wouldn't have been allowed into this country illegally
So I will jump in on the point so and ryan, I know you were speaking as well, but um
So I was under the impression and i'm learning here
So so like I like for example the culture of discussion
I was really pushing back hard against layman in terms of crime
So based on the study that I found i'm not sure if ryan's referring to a different study
But it showed that crime by immigrants was lower than by native americans
Now your point your kind of point to that is that crime is still crime
Yeah, of course. So the issue here is crime not immigration
And then you use an example of a specific person getting murdered
Um, we can have you know, we can sit there all day
Giving examples of people that were murdered by white americans black americans immigrants, etc
These anecdotal examples kind of move away from the statistics. Um, so I think from what i've heard here, right?
Guys guys, i've just got a question for ben. Please. I've got a question for ben guys
So ben my question to you is based on what i've heard so far. It seems that the
cultural discussion that immigration
impacts culture seems to be a stronger debate or a stronger point of concern than crime itself
Is that fair statement or you disagree with that and maybe jobs is probably another one that we haven't discussed yet
What do you think my bigger concern again?
I don't blame I haven't haven't spent time with tens of thousands of illegal migrants coming this way
The vast majority of whom just want a better life want a better job
It's almost all it's almost exclusively economic migrants
The problem that we have in america right now is we have organizations
That are training people on how to break our immigration law by using the asylum process
Teaching people again like organizations like the lotro lado
Catholic charities that are in america that are also in mexico and central american all over the world
That are training people that if you say these right things if you fill this paperwork out this way
You'll get into america. You'll get free welfare. You'll get free health care. You'll get free
Basically everything provided by the taxpayers. That's the bigger issue to me people wanting to come here for a better life
I've got no issue with it. You get in line whether or not that needs to be reformed
That's an entirely different conversation
But the the system that we have right now where we encourage and we profit organizations who are
intentionally undermining american sovereignty
Uh, that's a death sentence for our country in the end regardless of the the crime statistics
Are you talking about your american farmers? Is that what you're talking about? I'm talking about organizations
Well, you could look at the other ones in employment. You could look yeah
Hang on coming from california. There's no question about it
For I it's just let it let a master and then let yeah in the past uh farmers wanted cheap labor
Ironically, you're going to seek out their vote
Yeah, farm the truck that's the bottom line is that's what's happening right now is we're importing
Uh voters that's really what's going on
If you look at where they're being shipped where they're being sent to the vast majority are republican congressional districts
Um that but when you go to farmers, yeah, it used to be in the past democrats wanted votes
Uh republicans wanted cheap labor numbers. Don't show that it don't reflect that it's in the past it's still occurring
But also it impacts your your broader economic discussion your food prices are actually helped by those illegal
Yeah, yeah, when you remove them you pay more so again, you want indentured servants
I mean, that's basically what you're saying because if you want if you want illegal aliens, they're going to get paid less
They're going to get treated
Actually, my argument is that if you're going to have the argument
Don't focus on the immigration focus on the economic policy and equally the labor laws that construct this reality. You keep complaining
You all keep confusing immigration and you're you're not identifying illegal immigration. You just keep saying immigration as this, right?
Work farm workers predominantly are illegal immigrants if you did not know
I'm, sorry, and the really quick hang on really quick
I I just I posted a posted a poll on this thread
Asking do you want more immigration in the u.s?
More than 300 almost 400 people have voted and it's overwhelming with it's over 94%
That is like the dumbness that is
I'll give you the mic right after but yeah, so so christian
If if i'm sure if uh, um slam and post the same poll he'll have exactly the opposite results
Let's post it let's do it
And you could literally look it up and and no like only nine percent of americans want to increase legal immigration
Yes, it is in my new mind
I know there's a lot of points made by ben and ryan and we've moved from crime to other aspects of immigration
Um, i'd love to get your thoughts on the points made so far to you
Well, I I want to go back to crime because i'm sitting here looking at the kato institute very conservative institute report that I believe they're not conservative
But that ryan was referring to and here's what it says
The results in this updated brief show that in texas illegal immigrants were 37.1
Less likely to be convicted of crime than native board americans and legal immigrants were about 57.2
Less likely to be a crime than native board americans. So what the hell are you talking about? And by the way, i'm sorry
Okay, it's here because I read the same
Let me just go ahead and I honestly think that taking out black american citizens to try and make your point
Yeah, I want ryan to answer sorry I muted everyone ryan because there's just a lot of people jumping in but ryan two things
First to you. I want to tell you one thing that ryan's own study as well and the one I searched
Maybe it's the same one. It concluded the same thing that the numbers for ryan's numbers
Showed that native americans. I don't know if you heard that native born americans had a 3.1 per hundred thousand
Illegal 2.2 legal 1.3. So native born had higher crime rates than illegal and
No, but he was right. You weren't here. But then he said let's take the black americans out
And now yeah, yeah, this is yeah, some man i've got a question following that so ryan you did say afterwards
Yes, so the the point of removing, um, how bizarre is that? Why are you even imputed in the i'm speaking?
Um, uh, so why is he even did you hold up actually ask your question for right? Ask you before right i'll give you the mic
But ask your question for right. I love that question
Okay, so the first line before you jump right before you jump i've got a question for you ryan
Sorry, but for right you were asking a question. Can you all right? Can you unmute and ask it again before i go to ryan?
Okay, right before i was jumping in and then when we go the mic to me what's the i can't hear any yeah, yeah, yeah
He's he's he's uh, right. I'm quiet. Okay. Now, okay. So can I ask
My question to you ryan my question is why would you want to remove black americans from the survey?
Uh, what's the logic behind it? So I didn't want to okay
So so let me go through what what what she said first kato institute one is not a conservative organization
It is an open borders libertarian organization that always promotes
Always promotes open borders always promotes mass immigration
All their studies are slated to promote mass immigration. All their reporting is promoted mass immigration
So when I said crime with black americans
I was specifically referring only to violent crime only to mostly homicides because they are disproportionate to the overall population
But when you look at legal immigrants versus illegal immigrants one thing that has not factored
No one has said this I think is extremely important is when you look at the average age of a legal immigrant to this country
They are about 46 years old that is about the average age of a legal immigrant coming to this country. They are not young
They're not uh, this is not like 19 year olds crossing into the country whatsoever
These are older people who had to work probably sometimes decades to get here
And oftentimes if they come from a third world environment or a developing country
It is because they are of the more prosperous end of that country
Not always the case, but sometimes the case a person who is middle aged regardless of their age race sex gender or religion
Is less likely to commit a crime than somebody who is 21 who crossed who walked across the border?
Um, and they are also by the way younger
Wait, can I just can I just follow up ryan?
So when I said when I said if you look at overall crime
Which you're looking at the kato institute has cherry-picked certain person certain parts of that study that comes from the texas rangers
When you look at the overall crimes what they look at is when you look at other things. So there were been so there were
Um 344 000 aliens criminal aliens illegal aliens booked in the state of texas over a 10-year period
Um predominant levels of crime were either a drug charges
Uh obstructing police charges and then theft they had huge proportions and assaults
That's the other one assaults is the third biggest but when you look at over things like homicide or what you would say
Or rape charges, they're fairly small
But that doesn't mean that there's no criminality coming from an illegal population
And my point was not the point that was made
Was not that there are no immigrant illegal immigrants that don't commit crime that that or that they are all committing crime
That was not the point made the point was made that some on some crimes some illegal alien populations commit
Disproportionate amounts in those categories. That's what I said from the very get-go which and why it's
Sure, which crimes and why is that which crimes which are immigrants?
Let me let me take on a few books because you make a lot of which crimes are immigrants more likely to commit based on
The study you're referring to than native war americans
Well, I told you identity theft to begin with
Trafficking trafficking crimes and and car crimes. They are disproportionately
On the list those are the two I remember by by hand because I have I don't have the study in front of me
um, but that was the two on top of my head that I
so if you can send me through the study because um
I think identity I would not use as an example
But if you look at general crime native born americans are higher than illegal and legal
But so a better argument, maybe ryan. Is it me because I can't hear right? Yeah, farai
I'll remove you and bring you back up
Um, so so the question to use would the issue then be illegal versus legal immigrants rather than immigrants versus native ones?
No, I think that I mean it's it's a much so
When you say immigrant, right when we say immigrants we talk about it as if you have to buy a bag of oranges from
Um the store and you get every orange whether that's ripe not ripe sour or rotted
Um, the point of an immigration system is to have an immigration system that benefits americans to sit there and select the very best
The cream on the top when you have an illegal population, you don't know what you're getting because they are not processed
There's got a ways there's people who've been caught and released throughout the decades. There's several decades
You're saying so ryan the point make it you gotta move away from my question
But man interesting point then I want to go to ali and other speakers because there's a lot of speakers with their hand up
Um, and then t ryan know you'd want to reply so maybe we'll get t ryan to reply then we'll go to ali
So ryan the point the point you've made is uh, essentially the process in which the process that we have or that the us has today
That we make sure illegal immigrants go through the right process and are accepted or rejected
Is is not strict enough and a lot of illegal immigrants kind of get slipped through the cracks
That's the concern that you have you're not saying we don't need immigrants immigrants are healthy for the economy
Um, you know welcome to the country as long as they bring value
But to ensure that the u.s gets the cream of the crop, which is it's a very logical
Um expectation you'd want the best for your country for that to happen
There needs to be a better process to make sure illegal immigrants do not slip through the cracks
Did I summarize the one of the points you made well before going to tira?
Um, I would just follow this we need less immigrants than we currently have we don't need as many as we have
We need the best but we need fewer and we need no illegals. Yeah, clear point. Okay tira i'd love you to comment
Especially the especially the last point he made the last one that ryan made if you could conclude with your thoughts on that final
Well, I I will conclude with that
But i'm i'm sitting here looking I looked at kato and it didn't say what ryan said
But I understand now he's cherry picking it and whatever
Now i'm looking u.s department of justice office of justice program comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants legal immigrants and native born u.s
Citizens in texas and the study found that u.s born citizens over two times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes
2.5 more likely to be arrested for drug crimes in over four times
You just keep making the same he hasn't provided data ryan's ryan has not provided he's basically yeah
He made he made the same point as you based on his data
Illegal immigrants are 2.2. There's 2.2
violent crimes per 100 000
Legal 1.3 native born americans 3.1 almost double illegal and almost triple legal
So he's made your point in that particular that particular
aspect of it the crime rate
He's made your point with his numbers
So we can move on to the next one because you both agree on that one based on your numbers
It's just the way he's interpreted. Yes. Okay, so his interpretation to me seems flawed
He hasn't provided us with his study i've seen two that that don't have his interpretation
Let's leave that I will say once again that I think excluding blacks from any category for any reason is a little
Odd, um, I don't understand that just
Yeah, if I included people who were born in 1938, you know, I mean it's a little bit odd
Um in terms of immigration look
I I think our policies are are flawed. I think we need comprehensive immigration reform
But I will push back a little on legal immigration
I think legal immigration has been at the heart of many of the greatest aspects of this country
Okay, many of the people have come in and they weren't all educated
It's not like they came in with money or whatever but many of the greatest people in our country
Have been immigrants because they believed in america
So when you look at for example the lottery program you will find what is it 50 000 now?
You will find that those are people who are thoroughly vetted who want to come to america?
Because they want to achieve because they want to grow because they want to be capitalist, etc
So I I want to push back a little about this idea that immigration we have too many
We can certainly handle more than 50 000 legal plus whatever the visa status people are etc
That is a little bit silly now
In my view, okay. I I just don't see this as a you know, it's terrible
Also the way the way you'd explain too many like are we talking because it's a very broad term
Yeah, I said too many too many then then then
Like because there's benefits economic benefits to having immigrants. Nothing wrong with that
Is it too many when you're looking at it from an economic perspective?
Is it too many when you're looking at it from a empathetic value perspective like we just you know
Need to help people from another country
Cultural perspective are you asking me?
No, no, i'm just gonna expanding on the point too many
There's too there's many ways of looking at it
But if you don't mind I know you've got more points to make and i'll go back to you in a bit
I do want to go to ali who's been trying to get up for a while and has had bad connection then we'll go to
To all source jason and charles and heather but ali you've heard a pretty hot pretty heated debate here
I know you are at the border right now covering the story. I would love to get your thoughts on what you heard so far
Yeah, mario. Thanks for having me. Hopefully my connection's a little bit better. Sorry. Um, so far so good. Yes
Okay, great. So, um listening to some of your guys's conversations, obviously
Data issues things like that
But what I know based on covering the southern border for two years
Is what border patrol agents and what dhs statistics are that that we have access to so what cbp is telling me
Is that we see about one percent of people that cross the border
To have criminal history or to have intent to do harm. That is what cbp has told me
Now breaking down the numbers when you look at that you've talked about more than six million people have come in
Let's not even talk about that number. Let's just talk about the godaways
1.2 million people have successfully evaded law enforcement. Those are the ones that they know about
If that is the case, then that means this administration is
Allowing 600 people a month with either criminal history or intent to do harm
They know that they've told me that one percent of people and that number doesn't seem very big
But when you see the vast majority of people or the vast number of people rather that are coming in
One percent does actually hold some weight here. So that's the first thing the second thing
Track immigration does have statistics on crime and on what is going on with immigration
They track statistics. I found them to be a pretty solid source if someone has a different opinion
I'm obviously open to that
But what they have listed right now is 43 percent of people in custody and cbp custody have criminal history
Some form of criminal history it might be theft dui
It's not you know, necessarily murder or something like that
We hear crime and we automatically go into the worst case scenario, but these could be smaller crimes, right?
Very minimal crimes now when it comes to their criminal history
I don't know if you all know this but we don't have access to their databases ben bergham knows this very very well
We don't if they have not committed a crime in the united states this vetting process will not
Flag that they will not have anything flagged in their
Their file unless it is a country we share information with as you guys know if you're following immigration at all
A lot of these countries are third world. A lot of these countries are not keeping accurate databases either
So in order to get that information from countries that don't even cooperate with us in immigration
The first place is pretty impossible
So we if they committed a crime in their home country and left their passport on the other side of the wall
Which happens a lot ben has been there. I have been there. I have seen it
I have documents in my possession that they have discarded
They will come over here and whatever information they provide
Unless border patrol has an actual viable reason to dig deeper. They have to take them for their word
So unless unless there's something else they take their name their age and where they're from
As gospel from these folks unless they find out otherwise, so we don't have access to these databases
We don't know who is coming into the country
So you guys are all talking about as long as people are vetted. That's not happening
We don't have the resources to vet if you guys have been watching the news
We don't have the resources
Just a quick question. What do you think of the study that was referenced earlier?
And i've got one here and i'm not sure if it's the same study that uh, Ben was mentioning earlier. Sorry. Ryan was mentioning earlier
Um, but the studies that me and Ryan mentioned and I think Shira mentioned a couple as well
That crime by and I was trying to get your thoughts on it crime by immigrants illegal and illegal
So i'll mention two aspects of it crime by immigrants in general if you add legal and illegal together
Is lower than crime by native born americans
That's point number one and then want to get your thoughts on the second aspect of it
Crime by illegal immigrants is significantly higher than crime about double the crime by legal immigrants about double
No, I want to get your thoughts on these statistics
I would really be interested to know and i'm sorry to put this out there
But I have been covering this for a really long time and there's a little bit of
Of that, uh frustration here too being boots on the ground. But what?
Does that include their initial crime of entering the country illegally?
It does not it does not well that would be something to consider and i'm sorry to say that but that is a crime
That is illegal to enter between ports of entry right now in our country
So is it a felony or misdemeanor?
Is it a felony or misdemeanor?
I believe it's a felony. I believe you get a felonious charge
It is a felony. It is a misdemeanor the first time it's a felony if it's repeated repeated entry
Unless you come to the country to claim refugee asylum
And it is not a crime and that's what is going on right now
And I love look i'm just going to say this because I love how when people come to visit the border
I live in the border. I'm actually walking in a border city right now
I'm walking on a walk right now in a beautiful day
This idea because it gets frustrated because it paints and i'm probably the worst person to talk about this because I cover mexican cartels
But I live in the border like this isn't a war zone
This isn't like we're all drowning and about to die and like we have no resources for nothing
Like can we just stop with that for a second?
Okay, but realistically though
But realistically we know that border patrol is not able to vet these individuals and you know that and I know that and i've been
At the border and watch 15 grown men jump the wall in 15 minutes
You can't tell me that that's not an issue
Border patrol does not have the resources right now to vet people
But border patrol does not do not do not we don't know I deployed to the border
I was on missions to the border now. Let me make something I just want border patrol
It does not let me make this abundantly clear when we're talking about the border
There are communities hundreds of millions
There's millions of americans that live in the border that depend on the border being open
Because their livelihoods on the south with mexico
Let's make this abundantly clear when we're talking about the border
If you're going to talk about the border talk about the communities that live in the border
Which is a lot larger and I have the utmost respect for border patrol
I have the utmost respect for dhs
I have the utmost respect for ice
But the border patrol is not the community that lives here and is not
represented of the community that lives here because people in the town in the city that I live in
Care more about how long does it take to cross the border?
Between the united states and mexico and how long the lines are then how many migrants come in and that's a fact and that matters
Okay, and where do you live not to know that?
Where do you live? Where do you live? I am not going to talk about it. But as a place, okay
Where there's an extensive problem
There's an extension. I can't hear who's talking
A lot of work down here and I know what you're talking about and I agree
But i'll tell you this I have met a lot of people down here, sir
And a lot of people are now carrying guns that weren't before that have to go outside with their pistol on their hip to feed
Their dogs that's not safety and that's not what they were promised in america. You know what?
I understand those concerns
These people don't feel safe and you know that
I am you know what i'm actually on walking outside
Do you think for a second?
That's totally fine. I'm a girl. I'm not under pounds and I walk around by myself, too
There's many people who could be concerned
When these people feel concerned their values don't value a conversation. Hey, can you guys stop yelling at each other?
It's getting a little ridiculous. Okay, there are people who are I just do not appreciate
Because there's a perception
Outside of border communities in america and in this space is the problem with it
That frames the border as this war zone that you're going to get raped or killed or we're getting flooded
We have no resources for nothing and everything in this community stops
And that is not the truth
That is not even remotely how it is. Are there areas that are getting over?
Are there areas in america and a specific towns and cities in america that might have been having issues including the place where I live?
Absolutely. I am not going to deny that but do not come to me and have this conversation
Like the border is unsustainable and people are just dying or whatever because that is that is true
People are dying on the border people
How are you talking about one second guys? I'm just gonna give
Oh, sorry maria. I thought you were that
I was just gonna ask a question because there's a lot of anecdotal examples being given by strong personalities alie
Also, she both great speakers, but all of this is anecdotal experiences
Um, is there any any statistics on on crime on the border any statistics whether you can provide it also
So alie and that would be great. I know you probably need time to search, right?
If you have any please do share it. Otherwise slam and you wanted to give the mic
I want to go to heather heather. I'd love heather's thoughts on this. Thanks mario. So
Um, i'll say first to all source
Everyone should really look at the footage that ben berquam puts out. I haven't seen yours alie
But i've seen ben's and I mean it's horrific
So to say that there's not a war zone just because in your little community
It might not look like that doesn't mean at other parts of the border. It's not really really bad. Um, the other point i'll say
Here's a statistic for you. This happened not just under the biden administration, but under the obama administration
There was a crisis of uh, it was 150 to 200 thousand quote unquote unaccompanied minors, right?
So basically parentless children just showing up in our country and being trafficked by our government all over the country
where I live in massachusetts one of the
Military bases that my father actually worked on was being potentially looked at as a place to store some of these
Unaccompanied minors, right? And so there was a town meeting in my local town hall. This was under obama
So all the same border issues were facing under this administration. We faced under obama as well
Right, and then for some reason it stopped under trump
So clearly there were some policy changes made that were in fact effective
So back to what I was saying these unaccompanied minors were supposedly going to get put at a military base three minutes from my house
So I went to the town meeting on this where the you know
Undersecretary for the department of homeland security was there. They were taking questions. I actually got up asked a question and
The reason I asked this question
Is because i've done my own research and realized some of the migrant unaccompanied minors they stationed in I think it was fort sill, oklahoma
One of the congressmen there went to go check on these children went to go see what was happening when the federal
Elected officials showed up at this federal facility housing these quote unquote unaccompanied minors. He was not allowed access
Right. He was actually barred from entry and told he had to make an appointment and come back at a later date
So our own federal elected officials were for some strange reason being denied access to these children
Right. So when I brought that question up at this town hall if you're gonna, you know, keep these children here
In our communities shouldn't our elected officials be able to go in ask questions say hey, you know
Where'd you come from? How did you get here so we can find out what's really going on?
Why all of a sudden you have if you have 200 000 children, that's 400 000 parents. Where are all the parents?
Right. So there's a lot that's that that's going on at this border. That's not just people coming here for a good
Like a good opportunity and they're not all coming across the border and getting jobs at farms
It's just not happening and ben's point right the whole
The whole point about how this is an organized effort to undermine undermine american policies, right?
That these people are literally telling these people
Where to go it's human trafficking whether there's crime or not
This is human trafficking both sexual trafficking and both trafficking in order to undermine the american economy
When you have hundreds of thousands of people being sent to chicago, there's not a bunch of farms there
Mario you asked for statistics. So you're getting anti-dotal inside
Wait, can I give you a statistic, please? No, okay. No, no, can you give us an agency or give us an institution? Okay
So what i'm gonna do now is for I'll just ask you a question
I'll go to ryan and then liza to respond to heather. Uh, but just on just your question for right
according to the u.s department of homeland security there was total of
Where is it? Um in 20 i've got number in 2020 CBP encountered thirty three thousand five hundred unaccompanied miners
Um in 2021 that increased to forty seven thousand eight hundred. I don't have six after that, uh, which is about
10 percent. Oh, wow. Shit
Because in that same period there was four hundred thousand
Apprehensions I gotta look at more statistics, but uh, do you actually is heather? Do you know what percentage of migrants immigrants were?
Children, I I don't have those ben would have been great, but unfortunately he didn't jump off. Yeah
And then we'll go to liza the question i mean ryan is the day gonna take out black people or is it gonna be like
I thought you were asking me a question of sexual
I was asking uh, I was asking uh, ryan and then we'll go to farre and uh, liza. Sorry liza farre. Go ahead dryne
The question of sexual assault when it comes to minor when it comes to migrants not minors migrants in tarl
There's a lot of different numbers out there. Amnesty international back in 2010 says it's 60 of women are sexually assaulted while coming across the border
Um, the doctors without borders said in panama alone 70 were sexually assaulted
Um a paper la journada, which is a mexican paper says 30 of women have to pay coyotes
With sex in order to cross the border the united nations said 70 of women who come without husbands are either sexually
raped or sexually abused so
Those are the numbers by four different institutions of sexual assault in three of the four cases. It's over 60
So you're saying sexual assault by women wanting to cross the border
Among my friends. Yeah farre i'll let you respond. Okay, um, farre i'll let you respond i'm just doing quick search in my
In the meantime i'll go to liza. No, no
I just want to see how it's related. So for example, you could so
If you believe in an open society and you believe in in in in democracy as you suggest and by the way
You don't just suggest it
You impose it on other countries and all of a sudden you have a high immigration levels that are coming believing the story that you saw
And they come because they're abused they come because they want to unite with families. They come because they want to work
No, not a good time. Okay. Hold on. Just for one reason because I really wanted the response to ryan's point specific
You know i've got a response for you farre. I really was getting to that. I really was yeah
But I'd want people to get to a response. Okay, sure. Let me let me get
I'll do it better because i've got statistics as well farre if you want to add to it
And i'll get ryan to respond again, and then we'll go to liza
So farre if you want to add to what i'm about to say
Um, so so ryan you mentioned is about between the range of about 20 to 40 percent of women were getting sexually assaulted
So to be able to cross the border is that correct?
So in 2010 the numbers by amnesty international was 60 percent
The united nation said it was 70 which is a mexican paper
Said 30 of women have to pay coyotes with sex to cross the border as payment. What percentage? What percentage?
Lajanda said 30 united nation the low end
Okay, so i've got a question for you ryan
So that the point that this makes just very briefly is what exactly just trying to understand what you're trying to make with this
Someone asked before what is the percentage of women who are being sexually assaulted while they try to get to the to the southern border
It's according to three of the four studies and doctors without borders said it was 70 percent
The so if you're asking how many women are being sexually assaulted along the way crossing illegally
The numbers go between 30 percent of the low end to 70 percent
And what and what do in your opinion?
What does that have to do with the concept of immigration as a whole just trying to stand and then i'll respond
I wasn't talking about the concept of immigration as a whole. I
What is the percentage of women being abused?
That's what I thought I heard and someone said can you give me some numbers or they asked ollie to give some numbers?
I'm giving some numbers women who try to cross the border alone between 30 and 70 percent are sexually assaulted and raped
Sure, so I looked at in the meantime. I I I just searched some numbers on on sexual violence in latin america
And it's depressing numbers really heartbreaking
A study by pan america health organization found that in bolivia bolivia columbia in peru
The lifetime prevalence of sexual violence among women range from 20 to 50 percent
And so I think it's a it's a it's a wider issue of sexual violence in
whether you say latin america or or
In terms of linking it to immigration the topic of immigration. Not sure how I could link that maybe because i'm just i'm just you know
I'm just saying if you cross no, no, I appreciate the numbers. Yeah, I appreciate the numbers as
So are you crossing the border? There's lots of time for such brought up animal right? Right?
So the reason the Panama is so important. So ryan and trash you're both talking together. Sorry. Go ahead. Oh, I can't hear ryan
Oh, i'm sorry. All I said all I said was that if you are a woman trying to come across the border illegally
With the help of coyotes you are you have a very large chance of getting rapes by them or being sexually assaulted in some way
That's all I that's all I said
And just mario, who do you think who do you think controls the illegal migrant process the illegal immigration process?
Who controls that it's not us customs and border. It's not that what so we keep reframing
Immigration and making this point that you know
We it's the it's the status of america and people are coming for a better life and the statue of liberty
But you're you're not I want to hear someone make the argument of why
We why we should allow illegal immigration and put people at risk. I want to hear somebody make that argument
Yeah, so eliza. I let you I don't know if you can make that
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so maybe liza you can respond to that and then
I mean elon elon just talked about this now mario a few pictures
Uh, do you want to read it now because I want to trash to kind of add to ryan what he was saying before he dropped out
And then maybe eliza respond and then we'll read elon's one because elon will probably lead to a different discussion
That's why it's linked. It's linked to this a mario, but anyway, we can read layer
Uh, so trash, did you want to add to what ryan was saying before we go to liza?
So the reason that panama is so important to note and why he pointed it out
I wish he would have kind of gone further on that because the numbers are staggering in panama
Is because that's one of the main staging areas like part of the journey from like these several countries whether they're coming from
The caribbean or whether they're coming from central america south america
Panama is like a staging area a lot of it's where they take a boat to a certain area and
Primarily a lot of these sexual crimes. That's why the numbers are so high
Are happening in panama is because that's kind of like a concentration before they move forward to the next leg of the journey
And so it's actually a serious problem there almost to the point where it's either for payment or it's taken
Willfully or unwillfully and it is that's panama is a bad deal in this in this in this
Who is who who are the entities that are responsible for that migrant flow?
It's not a government agency. Is it not the cartels?
Are the cartels not being funded by this migrant process?
Like can I answer that it's a yes the cartels definitely make uh have an advantage
But there's a ton of ngo's non-government organizations. No, no, that's when they get into the u.s
I'm talking about a no. No, no, no, they're overseas as well
They are 100 overseas as well. And yeah, the cartels are one are a big part of it
There was a story today or yesterday about a family from uh, chile they were very successful
They had a successful business and they thought that this is the chance to come to the united states
So they were going to come illegally and they were not experiencing crime. They were experiencing poverty
They were successful. They said no, this is our one chance
Most people who come across the border right now are not even latin american. So let's let's let's go
There's a lot of points made here liza. I'd love you to kind of
You know respond to as many as you can. Hey, can you invite Julio up real quick marion and trash?
Julio yeah, just yeah. Yeah, we can drop you down a little bit. That'll be great. Please
Um, yeah, you have to bring someone down and go ahead liza. You can bring me down after this but um, no
I think I think that um, you know part of the american psyche is the whole thing about the statue of liberty
Right. Give me your poor your huddled masses yearning to be free, right?
So and and we have immigration stories that are remarkably successful coming from terrible backgrounds
So, you know the irish migration and italian migrations
You had really really horrible situations where people came to this country and then were able to blossom and succeed
And I think that that is what the general public
Uh would would like to see from immigration. I think that they value immigrants
I think that they think immigration is really really important when you're asking for statistics. However about the border
I think it's very hard to
Have solid statistics about anything that is criminal activity
So I I think that you have to have a mechanism where people are vetted
To get across in order to prevent criminal activity to a certain degree
So human trafficking is is is so prevalent in the united states that in every bathroom
In in an airport that you go to you find a phone number in the stalls for people who
To call in case they need to get out. So that tells you that there is an extent of this problem that we're not
Necessarily going to have accurate statistics on the other thing is in terms of drugs, right? So
When I was a fellow in new york city one of the big problems that we came across was
um body packing right and so you there that the the market for drugs is
Exploded since I was a fellow in new york. We found a guy with 56 packets of of heroin
And had to be taken to the or to get those removed in 1994 in queens and abiaca airlines flight crashed
And there were four body packers on those that that claim
so so there there's a huge migration of
drugs and the and the funny thing is that the people who are
Body packers are often looked as at as criminals
But they're actually often hostages in the situation where their family is being held hostage
Somewhere in south america and if they don't deliver this, you know
This whole bunch of drugs to a dealer in new york city
Their family's going to be killed or they will be killed if they don't make the delivery
There have been people found eviscerated in hotel rooms in new york city
so I don't know that there is a really good way to
Statistical model on on drug trafficking and sex trafficking
But we do know that it's a big big problem
And with an open border, it's more of a significant problem. So how do you balance the whole?
Dream of give me your poor huddled masses yearning to breathe free
Let's have a free-for-all for the cartels
I think one of the ways is to invest in the right channels of travel
Right. This is the argument we have in europe and of course not trying to compare europe with the us
But I think it's a good starting point. So for example, consider the fact that yes, you're open and you're a plural society
And that's a good thing, right?
but if we create regulations
If you will look into better ways that people can travel it may mitigate this
But I don't think that an anti-immigration sentiment helps that because you can never get rid of immigration. It's as old as creation
Okay, can I respond to that mario?
Yeah, please do the difference between europe and america is there's no failed state
I guess maybe ukraine now, but there's no failed state on the border certainly of western europe
Secondly, there's no narco state on the border of western europe mexico is a narco state
The cartel operate many portions of their government many states with inside their government many towns and cities are completely cartel run
There are certain sectors america. Have you have you looked at the european immigration crisis?
There's they do feel the immigration crisis 100
The amount of billions of dollars made by the cartel every year trafficking people advertising there's uh
There was a report by congress about the advertisements used by cartel and human smugglers on social media
To promise people safe passage into the united states on social media
The um, but the cartels make tons of money
The only way to sit down and respond to cartel also with our fed and all prices is to sit down to target the cartel
To target the cartel the way we targeted alqaeda the way we targeted or sambanlan the way we've targeted other
Special you can call it the cartel or you can call it where you call it in terms of
The boats in in europe situation. I think if you look at the totally different totally and completely
No, they're not in closer sometimes if you may if you may focus on the broader point i'm making
Immigration is a crisis everywhere right now even south africa for crisis, right?
Most countries are crying about immigration your numbers may vary and and so forth
All i'm trying to say is that in order to solve these kind of issues you need a much more
Nuance government willing to look at these these detailed issues with a clear strategy of dealing with immigration
You cannot isolate it by being populist by simply ignoring the fact that immigration exists and wishing it to disappear really
Does israel have a massive illegal immigration problem right? Well, i'm sorry. What is your alternative?
That's not true, but they don't have a legal immigration problem because they don't tolerate illegal immigrants well
It's the policies that are they still have
No, that is not true at all
What is easier for a migrant to cross you across the mediterranean or into israel or through land?
Okay, it's easier to cross obviously through land
But they don't want because israel has a border wall until they enforce the law
But right, okay, so here's two points right number one and this goes to the earlier conversation maria
Like here's the perfect example, right?
When we're talking about the the border and then i go to the other thing is one the border one of the safest cities in
America historically ironically is alpasso texas
Right on average generally every year is considered one of the safest cities in america
And it's in the border and it's suffering enormous migration crisis right now, right?
So alpasso is one of the safest and two forget the immigration. I forget the statue of liberty debate
When we're talking about the border forget the statue of liberty. It's economics
Shut down the u.s. Mexican border in any way shape or form because if you do that
We would go into the worst economic crisis 10 times great worse than the green
That is that is not true that is like flat out
Yes, i'm really i'm really gonna argue that that is a completely not true
Almost all our farmer can be mechanized if if the money was there to do it
The money is there to do it, but there's no will to do it
All the farmer can be mechanized most low-wage workers can be mechanized
Honestly do not know what world buying lives in
There are a lot of clever reasons
All right guys, so so liza i'll let you respond, um, what is the point that ryan made that you disagree with and why?
People underestimate how much it costs the farm a combine costs anywhere between three hundred thousand dollars and five hundred thousand dollars
That's one combine for one farmer
Mechanizing this stuff is not not the you know, the panacea that you all think it is
It just isn't it's not affordable. Well, let's use the money that we're seeing japan
Mechanize their farm most of their farm labor. Okay. What's the population of japan?
And what's the population two percent of our one hundred and twenty eight million in japan
Two hundred and twenty eight million and how many of them farm?
Well, how many farm in america like one percent two percent of our population farms
You are expecting that two percent of the population
To be able to be able to be easily
When we talk about subsidizing farmers in the farm bill in the united states
All I hear about is how greedy farmers take advantage of that. I know no one having that conversation
80 percent of the farm bill goes to snap it goes 80 percent of the farm bill goes to school
Nothing to do with the conversation
It's great object to subsidizing farmers
And if you are going to then say that it is we just gave billions to farmers
You did not give farmers enough money to buy a five hundred thousand dollar machine. You did not you could easily do it though
It's not so my whole point is not
It's not the question the question was not are you capable of doing it?
That was the question. Are you capable of doing you're 100 percent capable of doing is there willpower to do it?
No, why did angola angola had a massive problem of central of central congalese moving into angola
They took care of the problem. They had a massive deportation program
Uh chili had a massive deportation. It wasn't just deportation. I'm talking about trade
Trade you can't close the border because of trade with mexico. What are you talking about?
What you can have trade with mexico without closing the border
What are you talking about? Well, the conditions of trade would require immigration. What on earth are you talking about? No, you can trade with mexico
All right, all right. Also, i'll let you respond please
No, it's just this argument. It's always about the border, right? And so for example, like oh, well trump secured the border
Why the hell did we have title?
Right like and then the other thing is like oh
We need to we need to close the border close the border and it goes back to the conversation that we have
Like the amount of people that daily cross the border is such astronomical numbers
Yeah, he's going crazy is what he's doing can you can you stop walking on the border because the internet can actually
Um, so we'll go we'll go to austin i'll let you make the point because i know you and also speak the same
I mean, yeah, by all means a couple of things that I kind of wanted to jump back in on real quick here
So number one. Yes, so what all sorts of talking about is in regards to just the sheer amount of trade that goes on between
Us and mexican firms. They're one of I believe they're our second largest trading partner in the world next to
China it's either that or they're number one one of the two
Anyways, so yeah, no, you know completely shutting off the border is
Impossible. I mean even if it were physically possible, uh, yeah, the economic ramifications would be horrendous on the united states
But I also wanted to comment on
Some of the comparisons i'm hearing towards like european immigration policy and the situation that europe is going through
And how somehow like europe doesn't have to deal with like failed states nearby
I mean are we forgetting that syria has been in a state of civil war for the past two
Are we forgetting that libya after after katafi fell has been in a state of civil war for the last 10 years?
Like you know, there are there are serious issues in europe's neighborhood that they're having to deal with on an immigration issue
And also this idea that europe has like open borders is is ridiculous
I understand there is the shangan agreement which allows, you know those holding visas to move between members of it
But that doesn't mean that europe doesn't have external borders
They have an entire service front text dedicated towards the enforcement of the external european border
So like I have zero idea where this notion that europe is an open border place
Is coming from because that's simply not accurate at all
And the europeans have had to very much shuffle on their feet in regards to
Responding to large numbers of refugees coming from the syrian civil war coming from libya and coming from north africa
So I just I don't know. I don't know if it's just ignorance, but you know the idea that the europeans have zero experience here
They're not currently going through their thing or immigration is somehow like uniquely on mass like uh, an american thing is is very
so that being said in regards to in regards to you know the situation in mexico and the situation of like
I I think often, you know
We're getting into all these arguments about the new domestic politics in the united states and this administration that administration
Look immigration has been an issue, uh on the external borders of the united states and for you know, as long as time
Um, and if we actually want to have a serious conversation over what's driving immigration
We need to be having more conversations on the situations in the country where people are coming from such as heidi
Such as on dura such as guadamala, right?
And instead of instead of being like oh the wall is going to fix everything. Absolutely not, you know, you build a 20-foot wall
Find someone to buy a 21-foot ladder
But that doesn't solve the actual issue
Which is the amount of people who are looking at the united states and looking at their situation at home and saying, you know
It's worth the you know, the potential the 30 to 60 percent potential of being taken advantage of or trafficked by a coyote
Just because I know i'm going to get a better deal in the united states and i'm going to be safer
Than trying to you know, go out on the streets of haiti like it's
If we were if we were actually sort of having a serious conversation on how to solve this we'd be talking about how to stabilize a country
Like katie we'd be talking about how to stabilize issues in ondores in al Salvador, right?
But we're not we're talking about oh this wall will work that wall won't work, you know
It's it's it's nonsense and you know, I think it's just another example. Um, domestic political agendas in the united states poisoning good policy
Can I just can I reply to one thing because that was said that you need to close the border in order to
Stop migrants. That's like completely bogus. I never said that no one ever said you could have
The free flow of goods and services between mexico and the us while having a secure border
The reason that we have allowed people to come into the united states is once they reach the border
They declare asylum most asylum cases are false
Most people who get who go through asylum courts are not found to have a legitimate asylum
However, they are granted access into the united states with the exception of very few countries under president trump
There's a lot more under president biden. It's like cuba
Venezuela and a few other countries are not permitted to grant answers into the
Into the interior of the united states. Um, once they're in the interior of the united states
It could be close to a decade before they go through the entire immigration
And by that point they've been there they've established some kind of residency
If you sat there and said you cannot apply at the border
You either have to apply at a foreign embassy overseas or you have to wait on the mexico side of the border
Which was the president trump policy migration dips substantially lower and you could still have the free flow of goods and services
Ryan and I and I I do appreciate where you're coming from
You're not necessarily saying that the border should be shut down
But I think what austin presents is actually humanizing the subject because at the end of the day, how do you regulate?
Fear people who are who are fleeing their countries on the basis of different issues and end up at the border post and coming in
As a consequence of multiple conditions that we can't relate to what i'm saying
I will i'm sorry if if I just go ahead
Make my point what i'm trying to say is this if there's no clear coherent policy that enables to these people to have a channel
That is that that actually speaks to that reality of which america has failed to do over the years
I don't think that you speaking against immigration in the manner that you are will solve the problem
The policymakers should be really looking at how how to do that and which they have failed you've spoke of trump
What did he do in the five years that he was in in as far as immigration policy?
What was he able to pass that was actually strategic and then reduced the numbers nothing apart from caging kids
Now so if we look at the moral side and humanize the subject I think as humans
As humans just simply simply humans
We could actually have a collective discussion because it's not it's not just an american problem
So it requires a multilateral approach and equally a policy approach and we need to be sober as we approach it
Okay, you're one of the most uninformed people about immigration policy. It literally ever spoken to in my entire life
Well, it appears a few things
But that's not my president a president the president of the united states has won the authority and the sole authority to actually
Deter and to stop before what has he done? Wait, can I fucking finish for 30 seconds?
President of the united states also has the sole authority and it was
It was actually granted by the supreme court on seven different occasions to deny entry to any class or group of class of immigrants
Based upon the fact that he values them not so it's not uh based on religion
Yes, if he wants to yeah, absolutely and he did that didn't he how he did not he did not you know
That was based on whether or not the country of origin was designated. It's a terrorist
Venezuela was included in that so you also don't know what you're talking about
But no, I know exactly what I'm talking about
But make you literally you don't because you've just made five actual errors in a row
Okay, the president has absolutely the sole authority
He doesn't need I mean he could change a little bit by congress
But fundamentally you don't need mass immigration reform done by congress
There's so many laws on the books. What you need is actual enforcement of those laws, which is very very very rarely happening
There's okay. So to respond to that what and by the way
One last point about the whole fucking humanitarian perspective immigration is fake. We don't need to swear. Okay with the whole humanitarian thing
No offense every country is worse off than the united
Right. So what was the effective way not done yet?
Not done yet with immigration if if the perspective of immigration policies
If the if the perspective of immigration policies how we benefit the people in countries worse off than ourselves then guess who benefits
Was he able to reduce the immigration? Yes, he was you all right. You gotta stop doing no
Julia let you respond before you gotta let them finish julia
Well, I mean wait, so let me okay
No, no, no. Julio you go. I mean i've been listening for for for quite some time and I think it's really interesting
That you know, he disingenuously mentioned about kids in cages
One that has been happening under the bite administration since this whole thing started overcrowded during covet. I'm getting sick
And yet there's no concern that i've heard from him. Now granted. I haven't been listening to this entire time
but i've heard no concern about him where
20,000 children that were unaccompanied when they came across the border. They don't know where they're at
They don't know who they're with. They don't know what they're doing
And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to you want to humanity. I mean look i'm all about
You know, i'm looking at all these people, right? I'm in downtown. El Paso. I'm looking at all these people
They've been out here for like a week
Porta-potties heavily used porta-potties for showers because there's no
Facility and what austin was talking about earlier. I mean, you know, he talks about it's like very much the
bite administration approach like well, we want to solve the root causes
Of immigration and to ryan's point. Yeah, a lot of places where these people are coming from
Are not great places and we understand it and there's always going to be those push factors from the country of origin
What is different today? What is different right now?
And what is like causing this entire mess is the pull factor coming from the united states
Where all these people a lot of these people who've had family who've had friends
Legally across the border turn themselves in they get processed they get released and then they make it to their final destination
And then they go into their whatsapp group chats. They go to their facebook
Groups and say hey, I made it across the border by doing it this way. This is how you do it
They're not watching fox news. They're not listening to ted cruz because one it's in english likely in spanish
It's just really frustrating because all of these push factors in central america have existed for a very long time predating trump
And yet all of a sudden as soon as the executive branch takes a very much relaxed approach
To immigration to illegal immigration. That's when we're seeing this spike
That's been going on since 2021. I think it's very disingenuous to make it seem like
Oh, well, it's just domestic policy and people wanting to julie julio. I can ask you a question
So first thing like you're right
I mean people the reason people not just now but from the start of america have been there to find a better life
It's not something new that was the founding of how america occurred
But in terms of you said there's 90 000 unaccompanied children who are crossing the border
Also people mentioned that women as they cross the border are basically being raped now. What's the reason?
Why they haven't to come across the border in that manner
Because they know that they're going to get released into the united states
It's that simple. There's there's I mean and so and so and so then
Julio is it not the case then that essentially
They believe that they need to use this method to come to the united states, which is illegal
And if the law if there was a way where the legal
Migration was allowed then you wouldn't have a situation where people are trying to get in illegally in such a manner
I'm not disagreeing that the immigration system is broken
What I am saying right now is that we can't begin to address the broken integration system when you got
Tens of thousands of people crossing on a daily basis because it strains the asylum court cases
I mean just the immediate effects of all the border towns and even all the other cities that say that they can't handle it
So you can't wish away a reality the question is how do you approach it? How do you deal with it?
Well one you start enforcing immigration law
The ones that are currently on the books
This is the same exact thing that we're talking about
With gun control laws you have people wanting more gun control laws and you actually look into
You know all these and i'm going to talk about mass shootings. I'm just talking about
Daily shootings are happening in crime and you see that
A lot of these murderers have been let out again and again and it's the same concept
In terms of you enforce what you have now try to fix that stuff
That's not working later because if you don't even begin to address the immediate effects of what is causing all of this
You're not going to reach to point b
Because everything else is in disarray
You said it right it's like
We should follow our immigration law
But you also said specifically that requesting asylum is a manner to come into this country
Yes, or no, it is legal to come into the united states cross the border and ask for asylum. Yes at a port of entry
You can you can apply you can apply for asylum the question is not
Uh, the question is not can you apply for asylum is asylum legal?
Yes, it is. The question is what happens while you are applying? Yes
So that is the main point so if you are allowed to be released into the interior of the united states for up to a decade
Before you hear of a court hearing that is a much larger incentive to come than if you have to wait
They should remain in mexico a country that is a narco state
That 30 to 70 of women get raped. They don't get raped in mexico
They get raped on the way to mexico, but go ahead buddy
No, you're saying no, wait, can you say that again? You cut off say that one more time. They don't get raped necessarily in mexico
They get a rape on the way to mexico. Okay, but you and I both agree because
So let's look at tamolipas right now tamolipas the border with texas, right?
A state that borders texas that is in basically right now a state of civil war you want
Also also just you sex i'll do you so so there's a statement there they get raped on the way from mexico not in mexico
According to data from the national institute of statistics and geography. It is estimated that
66% of women in mexico have experienced some form of a form of gender-based violence including sexual assault
So I think that the point there is there is sexual assault as you immigrate into the us
But there's also sexual assault in those countries of origin
And so just trying to get off of some statistics there
But also so let you continue making your point for ryan to respond
No, I like I understand like the argument is well, they should remain in mexico
But at the same time we're saying well mexico is this narco-infested country. Ironically what I covered I can tell you right now
Tamolipas a state that borders brownsville, texas mccallen texas has been basically in a state of almost
Like extreme level of violence because cartel started fighting each other like and it's horrendous
I track it. I see it. And so your argument is well, they should remain in mexico a narco state
But it's also narco state like I don't so either
They won't come if they're if they have to stay in a narco state the numbers were down substantially
Before they were allowed to come in it is of no
They won't come because it's a narco state
They want you emphasizing they won't let me fucking finish if they won't come if they know
Because i'm from new york
If they they won't come if they sit there and they if they have they know they are allowed in the interior of the united states
It is a bigger magnet to come to the united states if they're allowed in the interior
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait for five seconds
Let me finish what i'm saying the largest dip in migration in illegal migration was when trump first was sworn in
Because people in lab america especially but across the entire world believed he was going to crack down illegal aliens illegal aliens
Live drive illegal migration in the united states to an all-time low
Then the second point was during covet but when they when remain in mexico started into an coming into effect in
2019 i believe it was maybe it was late 2018 the numbers who came across the border even attempted to dropped precipitously
They were at there is a legal form to come to this country. You can apply
To come to this country. That is not like you can't not do it
I mean, so the idea that it's either come across legally or sit and twiddle your thumbs
That's not by two different. That's not how it happens. We bring in 1.2 million legal immigrants per year
That does not include green card holders that it does not include h2b. That is not to include h2a. That does not include farm labor
You're talking about literally we bring in we bring in a population of several states per year to this country
So the answer is i'm not arguing that no
And you're ignoring the fact that title 42 when it was put in remain in mexico incentivized
Illegal the human smuggling networks made a massive amount of profit under title 42
Are legal you're right. The application to request asylum is broken. It takes too long. I agree with you a million percent
But the argument i'm making is if we want to address the issue at our border
The only way we can actually do it is vastly increasing our immigration legal system
That is the only thing that is that is totally and completely wrong
The all you need to do is just enforce the laws on the on the books
It's all you need to do people will stop coming if the laws are enforced
They stop coming when they believe the laws were going to be enforced. This is absolute nonsense
It is not nonsense. There's there's actual there's actual data. It's a backup of ryan is saying that's how we make coins
Anyway, let me tell you what tira tira go ahead
Okay, thank you. First of all ryan i'm from new york, and I don't really see the need while you have to curse every minute
So I guess people from new york differ on these things
And I love this is although I agree or disagree with ryan that was a ball of response you don't have to curse i'm from new york
We don't all do it ryan. Maybe you should try a little you're from manhattan though. I'm from the baro
He's born in the bronx. Suck it. Okay. Anyway
There's not okay. There it is
That's a curse. I don't know. Okay. So listen, we do we have clearly we have issues with immigration title 42 has to go away
Because the covet emergency has ended, right?
So we can't do title 42 because that was based upon a health emergency
So that has to disappear and i'm sure most people on this stage would agree. There's no emergency
So it has to disappear legally now
What else has the biden administration been doing admittedly admittedly imprecisely and not well what they've said is if you travel through a third country
Right. In other words, if you're not in mexico asking for asylum
But if you're going through a different country to get to mexico, then we're going to turn you away
We're not going to accept asylum seekers from those countries. They've got to they've got to go to the intermediate country first
okay, we've set up immigration centers in guatemala and columbia to allow people to
Um to basically ask for asylum before they even start the trek that's not enough clearly
But I don't understand the laws you're saying we don't have enough laws. The thing is asylum is that's not right
Can I just finish? Thank you. All right
Because you don't have to interrupt if you're from new york. All right. Listen, um, we don't have enough
We don't have enough asylum judges. We don't have the immigration officials who can make these decisions quickly
These things take forever. We we can the law doesn't get how I say this
The law basically doesn't sort of say you you have to turn away everyone
You can't it doesn't do things like that
If you want to be able to turn away everyone you'd have to have congress change the law, correct?
You don't know what? No, that's not true. I actually have read the law. That is not that is literally that is not true
USCIS can issue it as no the uscs can completely issue that the president could issue can issue that tomorrow
That is not what what basically that is not true
Trump administration took the position that in order to seek legal asylum you had to be fearful of government
Uh violence, let's just say right not just gang violence things like that
I think biden changed that so if you if that's something you want to sort of say no, it has to be governmental violence
That would stop people, correct?
There are things that can be done
but I think we should be talking about those things that can be done and should be done rather than what I
violent anti-immigrant sentiment that you seem to be I don't know why
How about how about an executive order from mr. Biden tomorrow to only allow entry
Designated force of entry that's something that legally he could do tomorrow
But you don't understand when you get when you ask for asylum, you're basically asking for it at legal places, correct?
Because no, well, it's not it's not being
Once you get into the country, no, it's not
No, it's not. No, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't there's like five you're talking to please finish
Okay. So yes once if you get into the country you can
Okay, once you get into the country, yes, there's a problem there
And so I think that you could you could reasonably say we have to sort of what we once someone is in the country illegally
What do we do? What do we do?
How do we handle you deport them follow you deport them?
You deport them. That's what you do. Follow the law. Yeah, and America has been deported. Yes
No, they haven't been by not deporting
That's the whole point if we do not deport people that's the point that
By not deporting you or incentivizing the behavior
That's that's what they mean when they say you need to start enforcing the policies and again
What's your what is the number what is the unfettered number of illegal of illegal immigrants legal or illegal into the u.s
In the united states they're trying to find a middle ground. What is the number?
Is it a 100,000 a half a million two million? Is it 20 million?
We can't stop people asking for asylum
Legally, correct? We can't that's our law
Correct, but before you can reform how you do that before
Hold on you can you can stop you can change how you can change the process
By an act of the president with so authority the president you do not need an act of congress to sit there and do that
This year this fiscal year immigration judges have issued what they say deputation orders 114
Well 100 over 114,000, right? Okay, that doesn't mean that they were actually deported one
Yeah, let's look at the deportation numbers. We can we can we can walk down with this, right?
They're close to nothing. And also by the way, you can't look at deportation numbers from the obama years because obama
No, you can't because obama changed deportation coding during his presidency to say people who were
A push away at the border was considered a deportation. You can look that up smart ass, but that is exactly how it happened
That's why obama's numbers went through the roof of deportations, but they weren't interior deportations. They were people being turned away at the border
Okay, ryan did you get let's look at the numbers, right?
Let's look at the numbers. Shall we now you open your data and i'll look at mine. Shall we it's the federal government's data
It's the same data. I'm looking at so you're saying that there are no deportations. What's that?
We're not deporting people. No, look at obama. Look at trump's number versus biden numbers
No, no, come on. Look at look at look at look at look at look at look at look at obama versus biden
No, you're under a democrat or some sort. I'm not saying you're a democrat. You don't know anything which you don't know anything
Ah ryan. I think no, no, you're actually very illiterate on this subject. I would be embarrassed if I was you
I would literally be embarrassed. It's to speak about something. I know less about this
Okay, you can you can spare your embarrassment
But the data demonstrates that there are numbers that have been deported
For in the last five years we did that how was that relevant to today and the problem that we're having now
Historical because it's a continuous subject. No, it's not a continuous subject
What do you want me to tell you data? You want me to give you data of deportations from yesterday? Come on
There's like five you speaking like can you actually speak without 10 people talking for right?
What is your specific data point you're making because I don't get it
Like why their argument is that the numbers are less when it was for trump?
Then without trump, so you need to demonstrate if your argument is against that then just explain your data points
My argument was not that it was less or more with trump
My argument was that they have been deportations in the last 10 years
He said remember when when liza was arguing she said we have well
Well, she was making the case that there are deportations that occur
They said that there are no deportations at all
And I was simply saying actually there is data to demonstrate that there has been there have been duplets
Their argument is this the law is not being forced
I'm saying there are instances or lack thereof if you want to argue that way
But the law in the instances when it comes to deportations have been you've had
72 000 deportations in 2014 and they've increased further during the trump administration. I would admit that they did increase
And it may be a slump during biden. I've not looked at it completely, but the fact is
Law has been enforced which you do not know what you're talking about
Biden literally changed the set of things that we sit there and to pour people on
Ryan so I get you keep saying you don't know what you're saying
But then have you got data to back up what he what he's saying is wrong
But what he's arguing. Okay, what his argument is is that yes
They so his argument is they were deportations
But then he's agreeing with you that there was less deportations with trump
So if he's not if he's wrong about that what's your data points to prove that and if you can give that to us that'd be brilliant
Ryan go ahead you need to unmute
Oh, sorry. It's not a data point
It's an executive order that biden made the first day he became president to change the criteria in which we do interior enforcement
And interior deportation did it did it decrease then after that?
Yes, it plummeted and the number of people who came across the border literally exploded. I mean, it's
Immediately I said it decreased you invited increasingly, you know who filled it the legal migrants. That's who feels it
About illegal migration. Oh, yeah, you're I mean, yeah
So so for I I mean, I don't get your point because their point is which I think is a good point
No, no the removals. Let's look at the removals right removals
Look at the uh, the removals number because you you have to look at the data
One second for let me show you Ryan are you saying there was zero deportations before trump?
Okay, okay, so if Ryan was not arguing that the law was not being enforced by virtue of deportations because the deportation is a
One second he's not saying I don't get with arguments because you're not even addressing his point
Ryan's point is that after trump?
Trump the deportations were lower and then when biden came in he put policies in place that basically
significantly reduced that
No, no the argument I was making well rather the implicit argument that I felt that line was making
Was that they what the law was not being enforced anyway, even during obama's period
But if you look at all that I never said that even during the obama period
They were I mean, I never said that
Literally, I never said that
What I said what I said was that during obama's presidency obama changed the way numbers were counted
He's so basically during obama's presidency people who were refused entering to the united states was counted as a deportation
To artificially spike his numbers of deportations. That's what I said. I didn't say he didn't deport anybody
I said his numbers are artificially high
That's all I said. I don't know
During obama's presidency and then trump changed when he became president
I think that there's still the standard in which you count deportations
Just to give the numbers under trump the last year of trump a hundred thousand people were actually deported the
They wanted it. They wanted it. They wanted to deport 150 they got to a hundred thousand under biden
It's been about thirty nine thousand thirty eight thousand
And that was during co-op that's a low number
What was in the first year?
Not don't have you want to look at the second year numbers
I can pull them up interior deportation
Interior deportation and removals in the united states under trump in year in year
Okay year four, which is the fourth year, which is basically where all his policies were in was three hundred and fifty nine thousand eight hundred and eighty-five
That's the last year before
That's a major drop then is there from it went from three hundred and fifty nine thousand to thirty five thousand
Yes, and the laws are really not being enforced
I don't care what anyone especially some of them great britain is sitting there and talking about he doesn't know what he's talking about
The laws are not being enforced. That is the magnet. It is not poverty. It is not crime. It is not violence
It is not legal asylum is not legitimate asylum because most nor the 90 percent in many cases
Do not get asylum once they sit there and claim it
It is the drive because they know the laws are not going to be enforced and they can come here
And take advantage of our welfare system our economy. They are in new york city complaining about the hotel accommodations
That's literally happening when democrat mayor eric adams is saying they are breaking the city's budget
It is not it's not because he's all of a sudden a republican. It's because it's breaking the city's budget
The fight has also ryan announced a policy
Basically to say that if you enter illegally, you can be deported you're aware of that. Yeah
Yes, so so that is focused on four migrant groups. Haiti, cuba, venezuela, and one other country
Those are the specific groups that he's focusing on. It is not for all people
It is the deal with mexico that he just made are literally for four ethnicities
The people coming across the country measure over 100 different countries
So no, it doesn't it's all joe biden. Did we basically wait at the same time?
He said that if you come if you try and come in from a third country
You're going to be stopped at the border as well
We don't have any so okay. What's what that is is a third party agreement
Those are the things that trump was creating while the last year's presidency
Some came in some came through most and not we have a third party agreement in canada
We don't have a border problem with canada because if you come to the border from canada canada is considered a safe third country
You cannot claim asylum literally legitimately from canada. We do not have that agreement with mexico
Trump was working on it. It never actually happened or maybe it happened in biden reneged it one of the two
biden still does not have that so no
We don't have a safe third country agreement mexico
It doesn't and that and the and the agreement that he made you have to return to mexico is only for four ethnicities once again. Haiti, cuba
Venezuela and uh, like I I don't know maybe I was in guadamala with something else
Also, if I might jump in here ryan, I actually have a nice little back and forth with secretary my orcas about that specifically
Because it's not being enforced
Everybody along the streets here in brownsville. They are single adults
Some of them have already been deported once from venezuela venezuela mexico disagreement is only taking back a thousand
I believe right now of venezuelan
So this policy that they're touting to america right now is not being enforced. That's part of the conversation. I had with my orcas
These these single adult men who are on the streets of brownsville because those are the people that aren't in the shelters right now
And they they cannot get a hold of their sponsors ergo. They cannot get a ticket to get out of town
They are right now telling me that they don't have the proper documentation. They swam across the river
They did not come through a proper port of entry like this policy spells out
But they're still being admitted with an nta. So we talk about enforcement, right? It's not just about deportations
It's also about detention and under this administration. They're not really detaining anybody and we know they're not detaining family units
Or say anybody they are detaining some people, of course, we know that however, the vast majority are not being detained
We know that this administration is not one of detention
So with that said when they are placed into these so-called removal proceedings and given a notice to appear as ryan
Has talked about might not see a court judge for 10 years, which is true because of the backlog
They end up getting these ntas
And getting released into the country and they get a cell phone from a government issued
From the ice people who they are only allowed to check in with ice
On thursday's one of this guy and one of the guys that we talked to said today
But that's his that's what he has to do check in with ice on thursday's
But that's their initial appearance. They don't might not have court for two to five years or ten years
So that is the reality right now. They aren't detaining people
They are releasing them with a notice to appear
That is what my orcas calls removal proceedings and that is what thousands of people are walking away with with those manila envelopes in their hands
If you're watching any of our coverage
People are not being detained. The laws are not being enforced right now
and also it's it's pretty um
It's pretty foolish to to believe
That they are going to be deporting people when as we just spent like the last 15 minutes talking about
They're not doing that because my orcas himself has said that simply being illegal in the United States
is not the sole basis for
Being deported you have to do
significant other crimes in order to be considered that so
I've been given the mic twice and and someone has spoken up without raising their hand to interrupt me
So I just want to make four points and then i'll step down if
If that's the level of engagement, you know, I can expect here
One I I put the data points as everyone wants to study or a data point up in the nest
One there's testimony before congress from an administration official that they cannot identify. We're 85,000
Unaccompanied children who illegally crossed the border and were given ndts
They don't know where those kids are now
Where are those children? That's point one. It's up in the nest
Point two to anyone concerned about you know, keeping an open border because there's too much money
You know that if we're closing the border all source
Please we're no one is advocating for complete closure of the border that we're advocating for controlled immigration
And we are we are an empathetic and a sympathetic country
You know even though that the Statue of Liberty is a you know, 150 years old
I I don't think anyone for I incredibly accuse us of not being humanitarian
And our desire to help people from other countries
We also with certain governments go out and intentionally kill people from other countries
So, yeah, we got a bad reputation for the right reasons
It's the third point here is you're saying that people that people outside of the border or isolated places in the border
There's no problem. Well someone mentioned the new york controversy where they displaced people on government assistance
And housing in new york typically people of color blacks and browns
It took them out of facilities hotels that the city was paying for and put in these illegal immigrants
I still call them illegal immigrants. I'm not i'm not a horrible person. Okay
And the the last point I want to make is I want to bring an historical context here
There's nothing new that's happening now that hasn't happened since 1986
Right when when reagan supposedly made a deal to change it to adopt a change change the immigration law in return for
more border security more more
controls on the border and that never happened and the reason it doesn't happen is because both parties for decades want
unrestrained and in effect illegal of aggression illegal to the extent that our laws are not being
Complyed with and enforced and and they really have never been greatly or or efficiently enforced
But but it's clear from the numbers of people that are coming over and if you haven't seen the videos
Uh bill mulberry of the la times. He's he's been covering the border for two years
There's there's a numbers of reporters that just show thousands and thousands of people coming over and there's in some estimates
500 000 people border wide waiting for the end of title 42
And so texas has called out, you know special forces or what have you and and they had a press conference with the with the governor
today, so states need to step up but historically both democrats wanted
dependent voters people who relied on government assistance
To to come in and and exclude the expectation
They would vote for the people who were who were funding them and allowing them to come into the country
There'd be a loyalty to to the party because of that and I think largely that's been true
But republicans and conservatives the corporate the corporate side of them. They want the free they're not free
But they want the cheaper labor
Right. And so neither side of our government our two parties
Have have really made a serious effort to control this until trump
And and trump said he was going to do it and I think that's one of the reasons he was taken out
and as far as the the the dangers of
Who's in control of the border? It's the cartels in in places in of course in arizona
Places in texas where the cartels are making millions if not billions if not tens of billions
on this illegal flow of traffic economic traffic, yes, but uncontrolled unregulated and and
Dangerous traffic and I mentioned specifically fentanyl as far as my experience with the border
I grew up and now live in la but I lived 35 years in san diego
One of the reasons we left san diego is my son got addicted to heroin because of the entry of of gang
Cross-border gangs into the high schools
So I know what i'm talking about and you don't need studies boy if you're on the ground here for I it's common sense, man
You don't you don't need a study
And doc to that point real quick and I want to get some balance from this panel a little bit
But I don't know that charles will and that's okay
But I do want to bring something up. So I you guys may or may not know I live in arizona. Okay
And we have not only cartel problems. Not only do we have
immigration issues at the border
But one of the biggest problems that we have are the people that are coming up with through coyotes
And then not being able to pay coyotes to get them across the border
Everything happens once they get across them and so forth
But then they become indentured servants essentially slaves for lack of better word
Uh to the cartels and this would mean having to carry out various illegal activities within the state
Uh having to risk getting arrested
Having to you know start a business and then basically help not only launder money
But then give most of the proceeds that they would make until they could quote unquote pay the debt back
and the interest starts stacking up and it goes on for generations and this is something that's very very serious and so if you have
A situation where you have people that are wanting to escape and listen again
I I know I said this early but i'm going to say it again
Like I I love being an american. I love this country
I love our constitution and I believe in immigration. That is what's made our country strong
But I believe in legal immigration because when we have situations like this it creates this subclass of people
That are basically indebted to the people that got them across
Then they're indebted to the system where they they a lot of these guys by the way guys just so you know
They are paying taxes even as an undocumented workers. They are paying taxes
But they have all their money is getting sucked up paying paying a bill that just got them across to begin with
And so there has to be a better way
And the first thing that has done is to remove the incentive and what is the incentive?
Well, you have to lock down the border as far as immigration is concerned and then build out a more robust legal immigration process
Is there going to be followed along the way 100 percent?
But if you remove the incentive it's going to change a lot of the dynamics here
And if we if we if people do want to make the humanitarian argument with me who uh that that I may disagree with politically
I am making the humanitarian argument
But this is a broader stroke paintbrush that you have to use
To try to fix these problems because it's not going to get fixed if we have porous borders right now
We have what 458 miles roughly of border wall where we needed a thousand
So there's a lot of things here that could have been done that have been by the stroke of a pen ended
Under this current administration and there's executive orders that have been undone
There has been these policies that have been undone
And and then again, I care mostly about the 85,000 children that are missing
I care a lot about the people that come to this country thinking they're going to get a better way
And then end up being slaves to the people that brought them over
And I most certainly do not want women and children and i'm not going to go into the horror stories
What goes on on there you guys know them. I know them. I won't go into it. It's not for the space
So just based on your assessment
How effective you think it would be considering that a lot of people
Let's say let's look at the european, uh construct where people are traveling oceans, you know, what will a wall stop?
And are you effective with that beef you shut down the border just based on your assessment? Yeah, absolutely
So here's here's the thing. I would absolutely so if you're talking about oceans and I would prioritize people in Haiti number one
I know what's going on down there and it's horrific
Something needs to be done number one number two in south america. I know what's going on down there and it's horrific
I mean Haiti's worst probably but people traveling oceans
I mean they still have to go into like say panama or they have to go into
South or central america and then they have to go through that entire process which takes them all the way up through
Whether they go by water from panama or they do actually make it across the the straight and then they go
Up through the rest of the way, but they're not they're actually just coming to america. How do you stop that?
Well, you have to remove the incentive and then you have to build out a more robust legalized, um immigration plan
100 that's how you stop it
As important as a physical wall is a legal wall is the only real thing that matters
It's the legal wall. That is the problem
We do not have an actually functioning legal wall to stop illegal immigration and it has been that way
For a very long time and the only two brief periods in the last decade where we saw
A very small diminishment of legal crossings was at the beginning of the trump administration when he first came in
In the first five months and then during covet those the only two times the actual we actually saw a
Very strong dip in illegal immigration, but it's completely possible because it happened twice in the last five years. So guys
Sorry guys, I just want to thank everybody for coming to the space. We are about to wrap up
We appreciate everybody's thoughts and ideas. I think we had a very good
discussion positions from all sides
And we will be talking about this again because i'm sure this is going to be one of the policy points
The republicans and the democrats disagree on and so therefore this will most likely be a topic that we discuss
Many more times and more in depth with the speakers that we've had on the panel now and other speakers in the future as well
All right. Well, thanks everyone. Yeah, i'm not gonna add much more to it. I think i've said enough in the space
So see you all tomorrow. Not sure what topic we'll be discussing tomorrow
But we're definitely going to be discussing the the the immigration issue further
As it continues to progress appreciate everyone. Thank you so much for participating in the discussion. Thanks for the audience
I'll see you all tomorrow. Bye everyone