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VeChain Updates - Nov & Dec 2025
Recorded: Jan. 21, 2026 Duration: 2:29:43Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. I'm going to go to the next video. I'm going to go to the next video. I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video.
I'm going to go to the next video. I'm going to go to the next video. There's no way I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer,
I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer,
I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer,
I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a drummer, I'm a very sad person, I'm a big fan of my own
I'm a very sad person, I'm a very sad person
I'm a very sad person, I'm a very sad person
I'm a very sad person, I'm a very sad person I was likely to slay the hands of the certainty, so that Okay. So, now. Okay.
So, now.
Okay.
So, now.
Okay.
So, now.
Okay.
So, now.
Okay.
So, now.
Okay.
So, now.
Okay.
So, now.
So, now.
Okay.
So, now.
So, now.
So, now.
So, now.
So, now. So, now. So, now. So, now. So, now. I I want to dance.
I want to dance.
I want to dance.
I want to dance.
I want to dance.
I want to dance.
I want to dance. I'm going to see you next time. what is up v chain welcome back to the 30th v chain monthly update. Can't believe we are at 30 of these.
It has been a long time coming, but we have done so much since we got this thing started.
And congratulations to everybody who's been part of this since day one, because it's been a hell of a journey.
I've got breaking balls up here as our co-host today.
Unfortunately, Pauly could not be our co-host right now.
He actually has a full-time job, believe it or not.
Soon we'll be able to take him away from that.
But breaking balls, how you doing today?
Doing great, Connor. Thanks for having me.
It's an honor to be filling the spot for Paulie.
Not an easy place to be,
but I hope to do them proud.
And yeah, excited to hear about all the new things happening
and hearing from Stoneup Sunny
and the foundation
and then get some questions answered as well
as we move along to our 30th space here.
Couldn't agree more, man.
We'll have him joining us though.
There's no way you can get rid of him.
That guy likes to talk.
So we'll have him up here at one point,
and we're going to have lots of things to go over.
Sonny is going to be joining us here shortly.
He is coming off another important conversation,
but he's going to be making the next two and a half hours or so about the community.
We're going to be talking about a bunch of different
things that you guys want to chat with him about when it comes to governance, when it comes to
VeChain's direction in 2026, and when it comes to just the overall health of VeChain in the long
term. So I'm really excited to get a lot of this crew's opinion on where we're headed. Of course,
if you guys are not caught up to speed, maybe you missed
the last spaces, you guys can find it on my page. Feel free to go to the highlights. You'll see
everything is recorded. Some of them have been pushed to YouTube by fantastic community members
as well. I highly encourage you guys to catch up if you didn't already, because we covered a lot
that we're going to dive deeper in today. Things know, things around the VBetterDAO, things around enterprise adoption,
things around the community that we want to talk about.
So, team, while we're waiting for, you know, the foundation to come into things,
we're going to invite some of our speakers up.
And honestly, for those that somehow still don't know who Breaking Balls is,
you know, especially those ones that aren't as frequent here in the community.
Breaking Balls, love for you to give a little introduction. I know you've spoke on these
spaces before, but for those of you that aren't familiar with them, would love a little background
to be shared. Ooh, I might not be able to hear you. I'm not sure if that's just me.
It's all right.
We're getting the mic problems out early.
I'm not worried about that.
Breaking balls, if you want to try and reconnect, no worries.
Can everybody else hear me okay?
Can I get a thumbs up from some of our listeners?
Or is it me breaking balls we got you yes no maybe so or is it me
hello hello can anybody hear me oh we got him back we got him back there it is
all right we got you loud and clear no worries We're getting the audio issues out early, my friend. We have to. Somebody's got to do it.
Yeah, let's do it before everyone comes in.
Yeah, I mean, you guys can call me BB. Breaking balls. Either way.
I've been in the community for about a year now.
The team holder since 2017.
I've been a key holder since 2017.
Started my space history with Apolly Space back probably
sometime in March of 2025.
And ever since then, I've been getting more and more active,
talking to people from this great ecosystem from all around the world
and trying to find solutions, trying to expose bad actors,
trying to figure out our best path forward
on this crazy adventure that we're on right now.
So that's a little bit of my background.
So I'll be here to ask some questions,
also enlighten some things that have been going on here.
I think over the last month or two, some beautiful things that have been going on here. I think over the last month or two,
some beautiful things that have been happening as far
as engagement with the community.
I actually, my first big space,
I brought this up the other day with Rose,
my first big space ever was to talk about a proposal
that was about rewarding people who proposed.
And it was actually a road space.
And I remember being in my garage talking it over and over to myself about how I would deliver it, just repeating myself.
And it was a Saturday and I was supposed to go to the garbage dump so I could spend my time holding and unfolding cardboard and my wife
opens the door she's like are you gonna leave for the dump yet uh and then i finally got on that
space and uh everything went well i think that proposal passed and i think from that moment on
i felt like i had a place in this ecosystem to help educate and talk to people and get on people's level
on what might be needed and finding consensus amongst everyone to go to a place where we all
can agree on and see where we can move from there. So that's why I'm here. I still will break
balls, but I also will find common ground if that's what it takes to get us to the next step.
Damn right you will, man.
Appreciate the introduction for somehow those that haven't met you.
And for those that haven't met you, I promise this will not be the last conversation with breaking balls.
One of those guys that's been having some conversations with breaking balls joined us from another important conversation sonny lou welcome to the stage mr sonny lou how are you today
uh tough time connor how are you guys i'm doing well we know it's a tough time that's why we're
chatting working together to try to push through it my friend appreciate you taking time out of
your busy schedule to chat with this community. We always appreciate it. Yeah, thanks.
And it looks like Jake's up here as well.
Jake, I know you were on that last busy call.
How are things in your world, my friend?
Oh, did we lose him?
Jake, we got you back.
I'm here, baby.
There he is.
How are you, my man?
Welcome to the stage.
It's good to be back. 2026. I say good. Funny, funny times in the world right now.
That's the damn truth. There is a lot happening right now, and we're about to spend the next
two and a half hours diving very deep into it. And so I'm definitely excited to chat with you
guys. I appreciate you taking the time to connect with us, go over a lot of the questions this community has had.
And I think we get ready to dive into it, you know, after we go around the horn
here shortly. So be ready, Sonny, be ready, Jake. We'll give you about, you know, two minutes to
prepare while we go around with the rest of our speakers up here. Flame, how you doing today? Welcome to the stage
and congratulations on being one of the first V Founders. Hey, hey, mic check real quick before
I just... Loud and clear, brother. Awesome. All right. Good to be here. Good to see everyone.
Love the company we got up here. Nestor, Sonny, BB, VeChain, Connor. Yeah, really excited to be
here. Thanks, guys. Good to have you, man. Yeah, really excited to be here. Thanks guys.
Good to have you, man. We're definitely going to be talking a little bit about what you've got in your corner. And it sounds like Nestor is on the same page as well,
our other newest V founder to graduate the program. Nestor, welcome to the stage. It's
a pleasure to meet you. How are you doing today? Hello, can you hear me? Yeah. Loud and clear.
Hello, can you hear me?
Yeah.
Loud and clear.
Perfect.
Hello, Carl.
Hello, everyone.
Thank you for this opportunity.
I'm excited to be here to talk to you, sharing all about our new project as a vFounder.
So thank you again for this opportunity and happy to share with you.
Can't wait to dive into it, my friend. We've got a lot to cover,
and you guys are definitely going to be one of the earlier talking points. So appreciate you
being ready up on stage. Well, team, without further ado, we've got so much to go into.
Let's dive right into the shit. And Jake, we'll give you the easy ones to start. You know,
we got to hear about the metrics. We got to hear about some of the new growth
updates since we've chatted over the last two months related to the DAO. You know, what are
some of the metrics you can share? User counts, proposals, anything that you want to make sure
the community is aware of. I actually DMed you about this just before the call because I'm really
sorry. I didn't get time to pull that.
I know that's naughty of me.
We're into calls back to back.
No worries.
Top of mind.
I'm sorry.
I'll get them during the call.
No worries.
We'll come back to this item and we'll get these.
And we'll dive right into maybe any updates you might have around teams in the ecosystem making moves.
Any spotlights that you want to share that maybe the community is unaware of
that are happening with some of our teams tied to the DAO?
I mean, yeah, obviously we've seen, I mean, I think we're going to cover
some interesting examples, aren't we, from Non-Fungible Book Club and Mugshot coming up.
I mean, maybe rather than spoil the surprise, we can wait until we get to those points.
I like that.
I think we will tease that right now.
And for those that don't know, you can get a head start and go to the timeline of those two teams.
There are plenty of teams making some huge moves here that we're going to talk about.
Teams like Better Beach, Non-Fungible Book Club, SolarWise, Green Carts, you know,
Mugshot to name a few. Really excited about it, but there's also some other things that we're
going to talk about that maybe aren't so fun. And honestly, we're going to just rip the band-aid off
and we're going to go right into it because I know we want to get through these things because
there's a lot of constructive and likely debate discussion that we need to get to.
And so, team, we're going to dive right into, you know, maybe some things around this treasury, you know, and just kind of get this out of the way. Because this is the number one question coming to us in the ecosystem right now about just any status updates on this, anything you can share.
Yeah, I'd take that one. Yeah, I'd take that one.
Yeah, I would take that one.
Sonny, take it away.
Yeah, yeah, I just want to take that one because you know, spend 30 minutes to one hour, sometimes a
couple hours in the, you know, a Telegram group, just hang out with communities.
Before we talk about the finance report or treasury report, I want to mention that because
honestly, right now the market is not irrational.
And I made my point very clearly you know
honestly I think it's very critical moment for for the entire crypto blockchain industries
you know several several discoveries or or that's a signals I think you guys are aware of that. Firstly, market attention is not being the right track,
in my view, right?
Not in the utilities, not in the values,
everything's about the memes, casino games,
or even some of the professional tools
not really designed for retails like perps trading.
It's not really designed for retails. Ips trading it's not really designed for for retails i don't
know if you guys know that um it actually was designed for you know even in the tree fights
it's nothing new it's designed for you know um let's say the institutional players are playing
the heads minimize the risk um or you know operating larger amount of of money to do the trading.
But right now, let's say the market sentiment or market attention is, like I said, it's always in that.
And second, regulation clarity started, but not fast or adequate enough, especially at a global scale.
So it kind of leaves the space to some of the, you know, very tricky situations or events.
For example, like about October 10th and 11th, you know, there was a crash for the entire market and wiped out $20-$30 billion.
Liquidity from market not recovered yet.
Lots of people are actually wondering why not recovered.
Usually, the crypto is pretty, let's say, up and down.
It's pretty normal.
Why the liquidity this time not recovered?
In my view
there were there were two consequences um following what i just said you know in terms of perps trading
let's say um most of the retail users they don't know how to play this kind of the professional
tool because which is not designed for them and the let's say most of the products in the market make it super accessible
and friendly from the user perspective.
And most of the people just use that as a gambling, right?
You bet on upside, you bet on downside.
You put the leverage like 10 times or 100 times even.
So meaning even less than 1% of move of the price,
whatever up or down,
you could wipe you, right?
So one of the consequences
is the retail people get wiped out, right?
At that time,
some of the projects down by 99.9%.
Forget about those K charts correction
from some of the exchange.
And even us was down by 60-something percent in just 15 minutes.
And that's pretty much like for everybody, except only maybe one or two projects, which is quite a special situation.
So the retail people, it doesn't matter, even you put like twice, two times leverage,
you get wiped out right away, right? And not mention you put an even higher leverage.
So that's one consequence. The second consequence is for institutional players get wiped out as well.
And even they have a professional management about the bankroll.
You know, they do have money to come back, but they don't want to come back.
Or at least they don't want to come back at the same level as previous positions.
Because they worry about, okay, is that, let's say, system going to fucked up again?
them gonna fucked up again or screwed up again right that's the number one number two is okay
Or screwed up again?
Right?
That's the number one.
what about if they screwed up again do they have any kind of legal responsibilities or whatever
um because most of let's say we know what kind of exchange we're talking about right
actually it's not regulating main jurisdictions in in the world, not US, not Asia, not Europe.
Then, especially to those institutional players when they lost the big money in this kind of unfortunate event,
who they should come after?
Who should be responsible?
So that's why the liquidity is not coming back.
I would just say it's raised up the new challenge.
Most of the exchange or even the project are regulated in one jurisdiction.
Europe is better because the MECA kind of covered 27 countries,
but most of the jurisdictions only cover like,
okay, I only care about my jurisdiction, right?
But the crypto is global,
and the liquidity flow seamlessly in a global way.
So one system failure in one exchange
could fuck everybody else, right?
Especially bigger liquidity
are gonna have a bigger impact.
So what about the regulation about that?
You know, without this kind of protection or guarantee,
I'm afraid like the liquidity is not coming back that easy,
at least not in the previous positions.
Makes sense.
Right.
And last but not least,
I guess we're talking about many builders,
especially BB, Flame, you guys here.
The builders are in a very difficult position right now because the environment is not really supporting any builders, especially about building up valuable applications, utility applications.
Everything is just about the memes.
If you look at latest exchange listing,
especially in those big exchanges,
it's all about the memes.
If you are the builder,
you get really frustrated about that.
Builders, I know lots of the builders,
honestly, I respect you guys are still hanging out in the space,
continue to fight, join with me together.
I really appreciate that, I respect that from the bottom of my heart.
Because many builders I talked, they're just like,
okay, we got to go, we got to stay quiet.
Or like, oh, we got to go, we got to stay quiet or like,
oh, we switch to AI,
that may be more financial support that we can get.
The environment, like I said,
it's whatever coming from those exchanges or even the Wall Street,
it's not creating the friendly environment to the builders per se.
Which that's a moment I missed a lot from the past,
like back to 2017 or even 21 to 23.
Also last but not least, let me ask you the question.
When was the last time you catch up any kind of headlines or from top medias or the big KOLs to talk about any kind of technology involvement or use case implementation?
Nothing.
We talk about the inside.
Yeah, it's all headline graphs.
It's all the attention, dopamine hits, the poly market, prediction market space.
Yeah.
So I get it.
You know, when it comes to the treasury report, honestly, from what I understand, you guys were one of the teams that was like oversharing in a way, trying to make sure that you guys were improving that transparency, you know, kind of leading with the front.
And now, because you've been doing that, you guys are dependent on so many macro elements where it's
like we can't control some of these things happening.
Is that what I'm hearing?
I'm going to get there. Firstly,
I just try to tell everybody the market is tough.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm not going to lie, actually,
we're in the optimization process,
let's put this way, in a nice way to say.
Nice, I like that.
We cut down lots of the expenses.
You know, even starting from last, mid of last year.
And, you know, for anything considered as nice to have, we cut it.
You know, we have to survive.
Actually, VeChain has been through this kind of the up and downs or, you know we have to survive actually reaching us has been through this kind of the
up and downs or or you know that kind of critical moment more than just two three times um the first
time like back to 2017 we just launched the ico and then suddenly china banned ico and every
investor has come back saying oh i want to get my ethereum back or bitcoin back or my money back
investors come back saying, oh, I want to get my Ethereum back or Bitcoin back or my money back.
Right. Remember that time. And we did that kind of refunding process. Well, although three,
four months later, we came back to, you know, 200 times by 200 times to reach the first
all time high. Some of my friends even come back to me and say, Sonny, can I get my V-chain back? I say, fuck off.
Right.
Well, that was a true story.
So that was the first time.
The second time when the COVID hits and we make a decision,
and also giving the consideration about the regulation
or compliance environment, We made a decision like, because honestly, it's impossible to work in a core environment back then.
You cannot travel.
You cannot even get out.
You cannot even make it to the office.
You cannot meet people.
So it's impossible to do that.
And we made a decision like, okay, we're going to move to Europe.
And I have to let go of more than 80% of people.
Yeah, I know.
I've been aware of the time, but it's very important, man.
And then for sure, back a few months later, also in April, like one year later, in April 2021, we up by another 100 times to the second time, all-time high.
Yeah, we had that kind of moment.
It's a critical moment.
So we just, it's very critical right now, not only for us, but even for the entire industry so we're doing all of the necessary things on you know let go people
optimize structures stop the service um i know i i pissed off lots of people um and i i feel bad
about it honestly why because in 2025 we delivered so much right i even generate the list, internal, external, I shared also.
We have a long list about our deliveries,
but the market tension is not there.
It's not rational.
In terms of the hazard report,
a couple of the points.
Firstly, I don't know when we can issue that because we
are advised not to share for several reasons um
you know first the regulation requirement is not so clear and also
one let's say one of the challenge i have is i'm chinese when we When we get started,
the legal structure of the foundation
has been evolving along quite a bit.
And we have been stick in the fundamental rules
like it's gotta be nonprofit.
It cannot be served for any kind of personal interests
or no individual should be the owner of the foundation.
That's what we try to do that. But just imagine we start from 2017. Actually, the foundation was
established in first time in Singapore, like January 2017. There was no such kind of clear requirement or regulation.
Even nobody even knows, don't know, like, oh, what do you mean crypto foundation?
What do you mean non-profitable crypto foundation?
They don't know.
So it's quite complicated.
I even don't know how to explain to you guys.
Yeah, but Sonny, I think that's the theme.
Like, there's no blueprint.
There is no like, this is how you're supposed to do it.
We're trying to figure it out.
And I think that that's what you guys
have been trying to figure out.
And it's one of those things that we took one step too far.
You know, we're oversharing.
And then with regulatory hurdles that are coming,
we are advised to figure out, hey, stop,
and then continue once
we get more advice.
That makes sense.
I think the thing that is super important to hear from the community right now, though,
is you guys are focusing your spend to make sure that you guys have the long-term plan,
which is what everybody wanted to hear.
Yeah, actually, I shared even more aggressive messages over the telegram.
I'm sure. Because I know there is a situation like somebody used that kind of environment.
That's the reason why I start from the tough market and optimization process.
I know people have, I understand that.
People have the emotional um feelings and we do have that kind
of a situation like some of a administrator or moderators you know because something get fired
and you know become the fathers so but based on that kind of analysis they kind of use that
They kind of use that to, let's say, picking or creating that kind of, you know, sentiment causing, how do I say, they understand the situation, but they know like it's very tough, very complicated to explain everything. But anyway, my point is,
I think let's try to apply the Elon Musk rule like the first principle rule.
Oh, let's go. I love it.
What do you guys really want to know
is about are we able to survive through?
Are we able to continue?
Right?
That's actually the fundamental question.
Right?
Exactly.
So my answer is, firstly, I answer like we have been in this kind of rough time.
Yes, even now, honestly, I feel like the market is the most tough one I've ever seen in history in the last decade.
Because, let's say, the level of the market is different and the frustration
coming from the entire, you know, all of the builders developers is there. You know, people
even talk about the US start to open up about the regulation regulation but what's going on in the market honestly
if we all focus on that kind of memes people will leave 100 right people will leave because 99
people get screwed up only the insiders making money even the party market look at the news whoever paid you know bet like 37 thousand dollars within 24
hours when mandora get captured and run away 400 000 tell me like this is not inside of information
i mean if consider like if you are the normal user regular user You play in a unfeared, untransparent, manipulated,
that kind of casino.
Are you going to go to casino, play the games again?
No, people will continue to live, right?
So it's, well, anyway, what I'm trying to say is,
we, even it's the toughest time,
firstly, I cannot give any kind of guarantee, right?
But-
Oh, of course not.
I just put myself as with you guys as the same thing.
That's why I start to hang out with Telegram because I want to tell you, I want to let
you know, I'm the fucking community member as well.
I'm the fucking community member as well.
And I have invested seriously
around the 5,000 to 6,000 Bitcoins
over the last 10 years in V10,
directly, indirectly, in different formats.
And right now, VET, VSO better,
that's the only token I holding,
and represented 90% of my personal assets,
more than 90% of my personal assets, more than 90% of my personal wealth.
And what are I going to do?
I'm going to continue to fight for that.
And I even told my team,
whoever leaves or whoever stays,
I told them, like, I'm going to keep my promise.
I'm going to fight until last man standing.
So whatever from the financial motivation
or from that's how I started, I wanna keep going,
I'm still here, I keep fighting.
So if you want, I guess that real answer is,
are we gonna continue?
Yes, we're gonna continue.
We will have the optimization
even though that's another another challenge especially in europe you know you know that
challenge never ends sonny that's never that's the thing of just being in this space and i think
that what you just said is what the community wanted to hear. You know, it's just, hey, guys, we're figuring this shit out.
We know how to turn things on and off to survive.
We've done this before.
I don't like doing this shit, but I love your line.
I'm a fucking community member as well.
Let's figure this out.
Let's go through this together.
And one of those dudes that has been absolutely crushing it, you know, is one of the guys that
came up here to volunteer as a co-host today.
And I know he's got a question on this topic. And so, you know, BB,
Mr. Breaking balls, you know, anything to add here?
Cause I think that that hit the big thing on the head with the treasury report.
Now let's start talking some governance.
Yeah. No, that,
that is definitely the state of the market right now.
If we want to believe it or not. And, be honest with you, as a long-term V-chain holder, it took a while for me to shift to V-better.
But what I did when I shifted over, it gave me a different purpose of what we should be looking at as far as what we're building,
at least on the better side of things.
So, you know, to your point, you know, the market is in the shit.
Memecoins prediction markets is crypto as cool as it used to be.
Probably not.
So, Sonny, my question for you, you know, created the VBetterDAO and as builders are building,
is it still in your mind that transactions are key or is there a focus now going towards trying to find folks that are going to build a bestApp possible that will make the crypto second nature,
make the reward just a reward, make the DApp itself be the selling point here.
And that would eliminate the idea.
Because to me, it's your changing markets.
It is.
It is.
So would you say that something was an ultimate idea you guys had when creating the Be Better DAO?
For sure, the ideas or the purpose behind that evolves based on the different market reactions and different progress and different sentiment from the market situations.
But the fundamental meaning or fundamental purpose never changed.
It's like, you know, creating the, let's say, to make the web stream,
make the crypto, make the blockchain technology really beneficial to inclusive people
not just like to the privilege or to you know some insiders or who got you know um some kind of um
privilege in the in the positions whatever um like today maybe you know from exchange or from
you know wall street no it's because the the Web3 in general is supposed to be inclusive.
It's kind of like back to the white paper of Bitcoin.
You know, it's for people who doesn't own a bank, bank account.
But now it's kind of like feel like it's feel like the crypto is before we were saying Bitcoin.
You know, that's funny.
I just feel like I laughed at all.
In Bitcoin's white paper said the crypto is really for, you know, people who doesn't own a bank account.
But now I feel like, you know, crypto is kind of for people who own the bank.
so um but anyway that was a joke um you know
So, but anyway, that was a joke.
but i see sonny this is why you got to be here more we have fun even though we're going to bust
your balls break them in some ways um you know this is why this space has to happen and i know
one thing i want to poke out i know we've been doing two months you know kind of been spotty
we got to get on a strict routine with 30 days because like this crew can move mountains together.
If we continue to talk about the things we're seeing, there's three core pillars here.
You've got the foundation and you guys, you've got the community and us and all of these incredible fucking teams that if we can get lockstep moving forward, this ecosystem is going to make some huge fucking strides. So back to the question of BB, I would say, you know, the call, the fundamental design
behind a VBetter, it's actually, we call it the marginal effect of the web stream.
What kind of things, let's say, we are able to enable, which we are not being able to do in the internet era, the
same thing happened in the internet as well, right?
Like we talked about a marginal effect before, you know, when you have a system running at
a million dollars cost, if you have one client and you are expecting the client will bring
you more than one million dollars transaction
but if you have a one minute user you hope everybody bring what more than one dollar
transaction it's okay so you don't need to take only focus on those big transaction but you can
focus on even a smaller transaction nobody cares before that's what we call a marginal effect
so then when we think about the web3 what, what crypto can do actually is similar concept.
For example, like how we can verify, digitalize human action, make it meaningful, valuable, which you will not be able to do that.
Right. Like you drive an EV and you got to get some kind of business auditors go up, go with you to auditing your car, one
single car, and you spend $50,000 to gain what? $50 as a carbon credit or carbon value.
But if you have a system, a smart contract get audited, you still spend 50K, even 100K,
or one million, it doesn't matter. But supporting one million cars, we're talking about a 50 million value together, right?
That's the first I want to answer.
You know, the fundamental message
or fundamental design never changed.
It utilize Web3, make it inclusive,
serving, enable something we are not able to enable before.
And what we believe sustainable behaviors
coming from every individual, that makes sense,
right? That's the number one. Number two, following the different market sentiment and reactions,
we're evolving. We have to. You know, from the beginning, I said, yeah, let's make it 100
applications, 20 million users. We drive for that. We even had a debate bb remember that we had a debate
i was saying like oh yeah even the farmers consider as the users as well we cannot you know
oh i promise you bb remembers that debate yeah we get rid of the 100 of farmers it's impossible
and we should focus on you know drive the user growth yes Yes, I get that. The reason, let's say,
because we are competing, you know, in the crypto market, remember that.
There was something I didn't share before, but I want to share now. We're competing with mimis.
We're competing with prediction markets, right? They're just, or even competing with prediction markets, right?
They're just, or even competing with the scammers or competing with, you know,
those kinds of nonsense projects.
They're doing whatever the watch trading
or the manipulation of the market,
like all the time, unfortunately, all the time.
So I was thinking about like,
oh, even we got farmers, you know,
we should let go, put us low priority because we need to compete with in terms of user number, user growth.
We need to draw the tensions from, you know, whatever the institutions of the Wall Street or the media or, you know, people's attention.
We need to compete with that.
Compete with that.
Well, unfortunately, it's even harder, let's say, in today's market sentiment because nobody gives a shit about it.
Right?
People are always back to, honestly, I know the reason.
We might have dedicated space to talk about that.
But generally speaking, everybody is having very short-term gains.
Short-term that.
100%.
Right.
They were just like, okay, don't tell me any kind of bullshit or like your technology is
rocked to the roof or whatever.
Just tell me it's going to pump or dump.
Yeah.
Did it go up to the right?
If not, I don't care.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
So it's not rationale.
But still, that's today's reality.
So right now, I would say I've been starting to implement a new strategy over in terms of even starting from the foundation team is quality over quantity.
You know, we got to focus on the quality.
Whatever from the application perspective, even from the user perspective.
And I have to, I owe you an apology, BB.
You are right.
You are saying like I have 400 users in application.
It's better than 100,000 farmers?
I agree with you in today's market.
Yes, you're right. I owe you a apology for that.
Sonny, I'm going to take BB's credit, that one was me.
Right now, it's really about a quality over quantity as the strategy and try to let's say um you know that that's why um we
let's say the main topic today actually in my view is about um talk about the lazy votes issue
talk about the navigator roles right um to to leverage with the decentralized power coming from the community to address or to let's say improve the quality
of the entire ecosystem, right?
That's actually everything start from, you know,
the quality over quantity in terms of the strategy change.
Agreed, and I think that that's the next focus
of what we're getting ready to move this topic into.
And so I encourage our community of listeners here,
hey, make sure if you haven't already, repost this space get this out here and if you want
to come up and join the discussion this is open to the floor we're gonna go
around and you know start having community questions around this kind of
governance discussion lots of you have been participating this in X channels in
discord in reddit so let's get up here. Let's talk about this together.
Please request.
I know we had some new speakers come up.
If you guys do have a topic, just put your hand up.
We'll go to you.
But let's just set the floor really quick about this Navigators.
Sunny, Navigators has been in the work for like three, four months now behind the scenes
and has evolved like seven times.
Tell us about your opinion of it today while we wait for some more
listeners to come up and of course go around the horn for some questions to start talking about.
What are the navigators slash curators slash senators slash whatever the hell we want to call
them and where are they going to go? Well actually the navigator of the name is coming from you.
You know I used to you might draft I called the curator and then they were like oh yeah kind of already got the name as
a navigator i think okay we follow connor then um so basically the idea is you know try to address
uh we call it the lazy votes um you know there are different type of scenario in terms of lazy votes
um i i'm not really i mean it's just the terms it's not like i call I mean, it's just the terms. It's not like I call anybody lazy, no.
It's just like somebody, for example,
they don't care any kind of governance or proposals.
They're just looking for the voting rewards.
So they put their stake in the VDelegate
and always vote for abstain.
Or in a weekly allocation,
they just average day to vote for 50 applications.
No any preference because as long as they can vote,
they get the rewards.
Or somebody is a little bit better,
but I still consider as a lady votes is you configure the voting.
You do manually voting by yourself, but you never changed.
Every week you just click the button a couple of times.
It's, you know, I kind of blame my team,
like make it super easy or super friendly.
And then you don't need to change anything.
You don't care about, you know,
who gets more votes or more allocations.
Because the user cares more about voting rewards as soon as you get that.
That's what I call the lazy votes.
You've never even changed.
Even maybe some application get delisted,
some application is running bad.
I know people are questioning about the new beta.
We can talk about that a little bit later.
Oh, we definitely will. We'll go into that rabbit hole.
I don't have too much information,
but I can share what I know. That's what I'm saying.
Let's say that's what I call lady votes.
You leave the issue.
Let's say the right application or the good application not gaining fear allocation.
Because most people don't really care about who's right, who's good, who's bad.
They just care about the voting rewards.
That's what I call lady votes.
Plus, if they're, let's say, the lady votes also have an even deeper meaning.
You know, even I don't care my voting power.
Even that voting power, like nobody can take that from you.
And how do you care about, you know, if you see some of the issues or some of the problems or even go further, think about how to make the ecosystem better, how to submit the proposal,
you're getting, you know, it doesn't matter if you are capable or not capable, but at least you
got to have a willingness, right? But so that's what I'm saying.
Like, okay, why don't we, you know, give some incentive in creating a new role?
Are people like BB, like Connor, like Flame, you guys are really into that.
You guys have a capacity, have a capability, and also willing to study,
willing to even talk to the AI,
try to get the answer,
and try to improve the ecosystem
and also monitor.
You guys do that anyway, right?
Monitor the performance of each application,
and you can represent the people to vote,
to cast your vote responsibly.
And that's the role of the navigator about.
And also, you know, we can diminish the rewards
to those lazy votes.
Or put it in the nice way is,
whoever doing the active votes
should be getting higher rewards, right?
And eventually to drive people more seriously
about being more responsible,
more even accountable for the voting power, because that's the fundamental power of the
entire ecosystem. I was going to say, that's one of the flywheels. And so if you have this
disconnection here where all of a sudden, I think one of the best examples in the ecosystem,
and maybe I'm biased, is Non-Fungible Book Club. This team has made
strides that if you look at 12 months ago, it's not even close to the same fucking team.
They've hired people, they've incorporated, they've built revenue streams, they have built
a business that is ready to go and truly be a giant disruptor in their space. But at one point,
they lost fucking support for endorsement because people
didn't know what they were doing. And that's where, again, there's this huge miscommunication
between the progress these DApps are making, progress maybe some DApps aren't making,
and they should be, and the community that is voting for them. And so I think that,
like you were saying, this type of role can potentially bridge that. Breaking Balls has been one of those people behind the scenes that has been providing
feedback on this, has even rallied some groups of community members to try to workshop this,
because it's going to take an army of us to figure this out. And we're going to fail a lot along the
way. So how do we iterate quickly and learn what's working quickly to make sure that this actually can do something amazing
and almost become like the democratic system that everybody wish democracy truly was,
supported by an underlying technology that can maybe help avoid manipulating and avoid fraud.
So breaking balls, what are some of your thoughts here?
First, can you hear me okay?
We got you.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm having a little bit of an audio issue.
Yeah, I think all of this just needs a quick summary, a preface before we kind of get into the details a little bit.
I think there's two things going on here there is uh a level of where we
feel like there are lazy voters um and we also feel like on the community side at least at least
the most active community we feel like there's a level of lazy d apps um so what we're actively
trying to do every day on the discord alongside now with sunny thank you for joining us on the
discord means more than you can ever know um is trying to find that balance of how do we you know
reward good d apps and keep the bad ones away um and then at the same time how do we also reward
people that actually care about the community, who will take the time to,
you know, think about things through instead of just clicking a button and expect, you know,
expecting the highest reward possible. So for Sonny's proposal, it's two tiers. His first phase
is to create, if you take a look at his proposal, it's all about creating multipliers
or changing up your votes here and there. We're not asking you to change up the different dApps.
There's certain percentages that you can change. I think he's listed it there. And of course,
like everything else, this is all available on discourse and it's available to be talked about. So let's, you know, after the space, we will not have enough
time to talk about it all here. Let's continue this conversation there. But that's the first
phase for him is to nip this bad, lazy voter in the butt. How do we reward those who are actually
caring and we're paying attention? Now, anyone can say that, well, I could just switch the percentage and that's what I'm
going to do and I'll just get a higher rewards.
I'm not going to think about it.
Sure.
But is it a step in the right direction?
I think so.
So I think if we kind of thinking towards that way, we want to make sure that we're
activating the community.
That's something that, again, I go back to that space with Rose when I first started
to talk about proposal.
We need active community members to make this DAO succeed.
If we don't, then we're all just button pushers and picture takers and transaction numbers.
And that's not what we need.
As Sonny said, we need people that care.
And to me, what NFBC is doing, guerrilla marketing and getting people to look at these D apps.
Sorry, went off on a tangent.
Phase two of Sonny's proposal, which I would believe would be a separate proposal, I would
hope, because I think many of us have questions about phase two. Phase two is more in line of rewarding the proper DApps to get rewarded. And this
navigator role, which was created by a lot of hard work by Connor over here, was essentially created to act as an auditor for all the d apps on the down um it was a very
a very long document um but it didn't yeah it included just you know the the role was mostly to
audit d apps and to report an audit on them every business quarter. After community kind of looked at it,
there were a lot of questions that popped up,
whether is, is this too much work?
Do we have enough people that care?
Is this enough money from the treasury?
What are the things that we're gonna look for?
Are these people that we select,
are they experienced enough to make these decisions?
And again, if it's decentralized, they need to be voted on. And again, if it's decentralized,
they need to be voted on.
And then even if that's the case,
that opens up a whole barrel of other challenges.
So I think we were at a standstill with that.
And Sonny got the proposal from, I believe Connor.
And I think he wanted to put his own spin on it,
which is connecting it now with this curator slash
navigator we'll just call it navigators in a tandem of where we would use these navigators
not only to audit d apps but also to serve to help these lazy voters um so you would stake with a
navigator and their responsibility would be in their best judgment vote for d apps
that deserve it and to me based on what sonny's talking about he would like more votes spread to
newer d apps he would like more votes spread to different projects um but the question that we're
going to have to ask ourselves um is what are the audits look like and the same questions that come with what not the
challenges we have with connor is how much work is it i think uh sonny you you said that it would be
every two rounds you would have audits but i think we need some clarification whether or not that's
on every d app because that would be somewhat and it all depends on what you're looking for here
somewhat and it all depends on what you're looking for here no no well okay firstly i threw a couple
of my my pennies here firstly we let's say what the the purpose behind this proposal is we wanted
to address the lady votes but to define the active votes um let's say, I think there were two ways. One is I'm really active. I've been,
you know, voting for my favorite application. I've been keep up about the application updates,
the community sentiment. I review the proposal. I cast my vote responsibly, for sure, that's active votes.
Second is, whatever the reason, people, you know, either don't want to or either
don't have enough capability to do that, then they can delegate to, they can choose a representative and, you know, to do that kind of active voting for that.
So either you do your active voting
or either you choose someone to vote for you,
you trust that guy's judgment,
you trust that guy's capability,
and that also should be considered as active voting.
And then for sure, you know,
20% of the rewards you
give to the navigator, that's pretty, I think it's a fair price in terms of the actions,
the efforts, right? If you don't want to do anything, then, you know, you hire a guy.
It's happening in the real life as well.
Yeah, it's basically the democratic system we have today. It's like, I'm not educated enough or have the time enough to read every proposal, to know everything. So I go and vote for somebody
who represents my interest, or at least I believe represents my interest, to go act on my behalf.
Like that type of thing makes sense. And, you know, I think that's a huge missing piece here
because we have so many people.
And I'd love to go around to our speakers that have been patient up here.
You know, Timmy, I know you came up.
Rose, you came up.
Paula, you came up.
And Flame, Jay Chains, you guys have been here with Master.
One more thing.
Sorry.
Two more minutes.
Go ahead.
Yeah, go ahead.
In terms of the question from BB about, like, the job roles or scopes, also, let's say,
we should start from very simple ones.
Because firstly,
even we try to make it like a super perfect system,
but it's very difficult to implement
in the DAO system.
Basically, we're talking about a separation of powers, right?
Exactly.
There's got to be some serious checks and balances here. I think we
don't give this thing any teeth at the start, like no teeth. Yeah, think about the U.S. debts.
We don't have that kind of money. I fucking wish. So we can start from something like,
So simple, but with very, let's say, with a high level trust to the navigators.
And then we can iterate, you know, that kind of, let's say, this requirement or condition, but rely on even the navigators voting as well.
voting as well. So let's say it's like most of the time you got to have a Congress voting or
House voting, right? Exactly. Or if you don't trust all of the navigators,
then somebody could call for a general voting like, okay, those guys are all crook,
and we got to fuck them more. Then you can call for a pitch or a call for a-
Exactly.
So, and in the original thing,
we built that kind of like checks and balances system
where it's like, hey, if somebody is a bad actor,
there's gonna be some type of third-card committee
we have to have that has community, team,
and foundation reps to keep somebody honest.
Some of the work, you know,
even we can list that by the suggestions.
But, for example, it's definitely not like every week or every month you've got to audit the 50 applications.
No way, right?
But every month or every two weeks, you can come up with one analysis for one application.
for one application.
Well, one updates or application, keep something.
One update to an application.
Keep something.
And then later on, we can based on, you know,
the reactions based on the situations
to iterate like we can get more.
Even that kind of requirement,
there is no way to be monitored by smart contract.
It's technically impossible.
So basically it's based on the high level trust
of the navigator and also, you know, people are going to like, okay, you know.
And that's why I think it's a structured audit, Sonny.
Exactly.
What is the things that you're going to do in post that is just templated, we add to it, we iterate based on information.
Yeah.
Breaking balls, let's go to you because I do want to get around the horn to some of our speakers here.
Thanks for your patience, guys.
Breaking balls, anything to add here? Nope. Just quickly, we just always got to draw a line
and just understand where we are because like you said, retail crypto, people are always just in it
for the money where I just worry, we have some real deal community members here that are currently
doing this work for nothing. They've been doing a lot of exposing a lot of looking under the hood a lot of finding farming networks a lot
of finding nefarious people are writing black and uh you know morbid reheat and a whole other bunch
of people um yeah i'm just i just when you mix together the voting i just fear is that i i just
want to make sure
that people aren't going to just stake
with someone who's going to get them the higher rewards
versus staking with someone
who's going to be doing the work that the community needs.
Because from being in this community,
from holding people accountable,
and maybe we'll get to Nubla later,
but I've been on them since they came onto this thing.
I'm very community heavy on what,
what the atmosphere is here as far as D apps go.
And the thing is,
is what they want is they're hungry.
Maybe we don't put teeth on them right away,
but I just want to make sure people aren't just paying,
paying people just to get them the highest rewards versus paying them for
what they want to pay them for.
firstly,
firstly, there, there is no, um, we're not going to take out,
like if you don't want to delegate to any navigator,
you still can do your own active voting for sure.
No problem.
Secondly, you know, even some of the hard requirements
about the navigator,
we got to technically make sure
it can be coded in the smart contract.
Honestly, not much.
Not much.
Yeah, it's a lot of subjective shit.
Yeah, it's gonna be tough.
That's why I'm saying this is gonna be tough.
Yeah, most of the time,
you're gonna be a soft requirement
but monitored by the community, right?
And also the navigator can monitor to each other.
So most of the work, most most of the is more like suggestions but we can iterate a bit by bit later on that's just you know yeah that's
a plan awesome let's go around to some of our speakers here that have been patient guys because
this has been a great discussion didn't want to interrupt too much but crew feel free to jump in here i know flame and nester have been here longest so i'll
give you guys dibs first and then we'll go over to timmy paulie rose and d after that if you guys
have anything to add okay i'll jump in um one of the things i love hearing about is the you know
it's basically the representative right like you want you want to vote, you want to be
participatory, but there's a, an entity that's more involved than you that you can allocate your
vote to and entrust them to vote for whatever it is that aligns with your philosophies. I love that.
And there is, as you guys know, I'm, I run a note on Cardano and then I'm very active on VChain. So I don't have a ton of insights, but the ones I do, Sonny, I would recommend you looking at the, it's called DREP.
Hey, Flame, the entire thing was built on a DREP framework.
I got all the documentation from Cardano Foundation and some other awesome connections.
Shout out to Flod, who helped build the infrastructure and backbone of this to learn about what they did. Because like you're about to say, which please go and explain it, because I
think this is huge. We're going to learn from somebody that tried this before, maybe didn't
do it perfect and see if we can do it better. So Flame, you're spot on, go ahead and explain what
this is. Right. I mean, essentially, it's just, you know, there's a lot of governance over there
over there and people don't have the time to keep up with it, but they do want to be
and people don't have the time to keep up with it, but they do want to be participatory.
participatory. And so in that you can delegate yours to a bigger entity that will vote with
the things that you align with most. And it's easy to undelegate and it's easy to delegate.
And there are holes in it, right? There are some issues with it. So I think we have an
opportunity to make a more refined and streamlined service. And the other thought I had, I just want to put in everybody's court,
is about agents.
I think that we're seeing a lot of stuff happen
with what's called KYA,
which means know your agent,
which is basically the same thing as KYC,
but now your agent can do transactions.
And I think that there might be somewhere for KYA,
some type of AI agent to be a representative also. Like the possibility
that we, you know, entrust an AI that's not swayed by opinion or not swayed by nefarious
reasoning, right? Like a human can be, would also be interesting. And I'd love to see VeChain lean
into the AI and specifically the AI agents over the coming years. Yeah, well, the AI actually is included in the version 2 of VBetter white paper.
So it's definitely in the plan.
Just right now, given the consideration about the market sentiment,
I got to find out how many engineers I have after this optimization process and to see how we're going
to put different priorities. But I agree, AI is definitely going to be a good help to support
more people, to participate in the DAO, to understand whatever the proposal is.
On top of that, just responding to Flame, I also share the discourse over my Twitter links.
And there are many people already provided comments, suggestions, even objections. I reply,
it's all of them. So if you have any ideas, any suggestions, concerns, inquiries,
ideas, any suggestions, concerns, inquiries,
posted in the discourse,
I try to reply all of that.
And again, the idea is not try to,
I convince you, you convince me.
No, but I try to, let's say,
understand your concerns from me
and to see like from you guys
and try to see like if I,
let's say my proposal,
able to answer your questions,
answer your inquiries,
and eventually we're going to let the community vote about it.
But again, it's not the final.
You've got to keep iterating based on everyone's suggestions.
So more comments will be in better shape.
I love it.
Thanks, Sonny, and thanks, Connor.
Flam, thank you, my man.
Let's go over to Nestor. Nestor, anything to add here? And I know, Nestor, you are actually one of the newer faces in the ecosystem. And again, for those that weren't here at the very beginning, this is one of our newest V founders. Him and Flame have just gone through. We're going to learn more about them. Hopefully we do it on this space. If we don't have enough time, I guarantee you we'll be doing it on another because this will not be the last time we're interacting with this crew but nestor any thoughts here you know as you're getting your first chance
to really integrate into this community hear about some of the current topics we'd love to hear it
perfect thank you conor and thank you everyone that it's nice to be here again um yes this is
my first time in this um in this space in this ecosystem. I come from other ecosystem, other blockchain ecosystem.
You don't know me, but I'm from Chile.
If you don't know Chile, it's in South America.
And for example, Sunny explained some minutes ago about it's very hard this time for builders to to build products except
for prediction market on meme coins that imagine in this country where nobody cares about what is
blockchain what is well what is what we uh nobody cares about crypto it's not like argentina or
brazil for example um and and that's why for me it's important that's why i'm a be found there and
for example my project is by by bytes to explain that why it's important it's a huge opportunity
and because uh my focus is not selling blockchain is not selling crypto it's about selling a product
it's about selling a solution for a problem that is my focus i learned from
for some from many years ago i to to reach more people to reach more users i don't need to sell
about blockchain if i say if i explain my project as a web free project as a blockchain project
just i'm trying to reach the same 1% of the population in the world interested in blockchain.
Maybe it's less than 1%.
If I talk about a solution in my context, for example, reducing the food waste, buying different products close to the expiration date,
the impact is more that the total market or users is more of
course jd is improved the user experience they use the user interface and more but what i'm talking
this this thing because as a builders we need to think more about the solution a blockchain
b chain is the is the enabler for the
solution. We need to think about that.
We need to think about
how using BitChain
we can solve different
projects,
different products,
how we can
for example create different
sustainability applications
without explaining to users what is Web3, what is V-chain.
It doesn't matter.
It's similar to when you are a user with a specific bank in your mobile phone.
You don't care about if they are using React, Node.js or any other technology to do that.
That's why it's important that's why i'm a
founder i in this insult of course the project is globally it's not just for chile but chile
for me it's a it's a huge market to start and a huge experiment to to try to reach more users
without understanding what is, again, sorry about saying again,
what is blockchain, it doesn't matter, to solve a huge problem.
So you are preaching to the choir right now.
Talk about a way to introduce yourself to the community.
This is exactly what the community has been talking about for maybe the last year so hearing that sonny and the crew was able to find a founder
who shared that mentality put them through this path like you are the person we have been hoping
to see so i guarantee you after this space we're going to go to this guy here you're going to be
requested to go chat with our man paulie, connect with this community, and see how we can figure out how to support you and challenge you as you grow. That's what you're
going to learn about this community is they truly are an amazing weapon. But as a weapon, they are
dangerous. If you do not talk to this community, that weapon will go and attack you in a good way
because they want to be here to support you on your side. This community
doesn't like to sit on the sideline. They want to get involved. So use it, make it a powerful weapon
and a resource for you to go and act as an arm extension of your business feedback mechanism.
It's incredible. And we've seen great teams use it the right way, but we've also seen teams use
it the wrong way. One of those dudes that is crushing it here in this community
and has been an awesome voice, he's short.
You know, that's the only bad thing, is Pauly.
Pauly TV, welcome to the stage, my friend.
Big things come as well, Peg.
Oh, my God.
Anything to add?
I do, actually.
That was such a fantastic one for me to follow
because Nestor touched on something that has been on my mind a lot lately, thinking about where we are at, not only as VeChain, but as Web3, right?
And, you know, we've been talking about mass adoption for years. And I think I try to think
about what are the real obstacles that we see in Web3 that are preventing people from coming to web 3 to blockchain right um and i think one of
those is is just change is hard and people don't want to change and when you see no real benefit
to changing most people aren't going to do it right and you know i think anytime you want to
see a change in any sort of industry or environment, you need to find solutions to problems, like Nestor said.
We need to find solutions to issues.
And that's how we're going to get real genuine users, is if we're using this environment and this tech to solve problems.
And I think this VBetterDAO is an attempt at doing one of those things for sure.
or DAO is an attempt at doing one of those things for sure. But the problem, another problem I see
is if you go around and you ask people who aren't in Web3, what is like one of the biggest reasons
why you don't want to come here? It's not the usability. A lot of times the first thing they
mention is how wasteful Web3 and blockchain is to people, or at least their perception of it,
right? You hear about Bitcoin bitcoin the energy consumption all those
things is kind of the first thing you hear especially from environmental people who
really would gravitate to what the vbetter dial is all about you know and and i think i think if
we as an ecosystem were actually able to show to those people that this is actually one of those communities that is,
this blockchain is really trying to be less wasteful.
It's actually not the truth.
Crypto doesn't have to be wasteful.
We can actually be more sustainable utilizing this tech.
And you can come and you can do something new.
And by the way, while you're there, you can actually earn for doing good actions.
While you're there you can actually earn for doing good actions like I think I think
Until we get that one obstacle out of the way
I don't know if we can really sell to a lot of those people the mission we have for you
You know, um, that's just one of those things and and you know, we we need to have multiple solutions for it to catch on
You mentioned non-fungible Book Club. They were a
team that was able to leverage the DAO, lean into, they found problems within an industry
that they felt they could solve, right? And they're actively out there promoting this to
authors and users, showing that there's a better option. And not only did they do that, they're
succeeding. Now we're leaning into the
video content, right? Where they brought me on to help them do this author spotlight series where
I'm sitting down with these authors, having conversations, promoting what we have going on
here in a way that we aren't really able to do yet to this point. You know, this is a multifaceted approach we have to take as an ecosystem and as a community.
It takes all of us.
And, you know, I think targeting the right people to get here and knowing what are the obstacles in between us and them that are stopping them from even considering it.
Yeah.
I think is the main thing we got to focus on.
That's where my head's at right now.
Yeah. I wanted to respond here, Connor, if you're okay with that.
Oh, of course, Sonny. Jump in whenever, man.
I think there are two barriers for general common people, regular people to be on board as a Web3
user. Number one, still, it's about the infrastructure is not commonly or massively deployed.
For example, like a social login or custodian for retails.
Don't tell me about the social login for most of the exchange accounts.
It's, yes, it's there, but they don't support any kind of application. Users using the social login go there and just try to trade,
try to gamble, unfortunately.
That's the number one.
Number two is about the perception, definitely,
especially in today's market.
If your friends or family is just hearing about the memes
or that kind of inside trading or manipulations, and nobody's going to
pay attention about that, right? So the same thing actually happening in the internet.
When the website getting started, I remember my mom was kind of challenging me when I was a kid.
She was like, don't play the computer.
She feels like you're using the computer to play.
Either you play the games or you might sneak around and try to get the Pornhub or something.
Right?
Nice.
It's only the bad stuff.
They will consider like, yeah, the computer, the internet is always the bad stuff. That's kind of normal.
But, you know, after internet bubble explode, there is a Facebook, there is Google, there
is Amazon, and then people start to use that.
I just ask the Grok, actually, you know, the first one minute user for Facebook took 11
months.
And first five minute user took, you know,
how much, 22 months is.
And the first 10 minute user took like,
yeah, 28 months or something.
Yeah, two years, four months, 28 months.
I was gonna say it's only gotten faster.
And I think there's more people using blockchain right now
than they were on the internet in 1990, just to give that perspective of that phase.
It's insane.
Yeah.
Honestly, I've been using, trying the different type of wallets.
Honestly, I'm very proud to say the VWord is the most friendly wallet I ever tried.
Better than iMToken, better than Phantom, loads of the application per se.
But I want to share one of the feedback I got from one of the users.
He said, Sonny, I don't like your VWord.
I said, okay, give me some feedback.
He said, because I cannot trade.
You know, I was like, okay, do you try different type of application?
He said, no, I just wanted to trade I was like okay you should use a
exchange not just use a wallet right exactly that just shows how early we are still yeah imagine
somebody going to a website page in the 90s be like why can't I post here well you're on a news
page you can only read that yeah there's no comment exactly what do you mean you can't post yeah exactly so um yeah that's the one you hit it on the head and break balls before we go to you
i got to go to our man timmy because he's been patient here uh timmy new speaker on the stage
welcome to the v chain ecosystem hopefully this has been a interesting discussion for you
oh yeah i mean it was amazing to be honest you know because
lots of insights amazing speakers so yeah guys really appreciate the stuff that you're making
here that's just dope because you know that's the real adoption to share the people and yeah coming
back to the topics uh first of all i have a few questions but first of all i just wanted to share
a super interesting story about vchain because you know i've been in crypto for more than six years
been working with the market makers wallets mostly and you know I have a girlfriend so
sometimes I mean I'm sharing the portfolio like I have this I have that and she's asking like
what's this what's that and why surprisingly moment it was like I'm scrolling I have a
you're talking also on my wallets and I'm like scrolling scrolling she's like what's this what's
this like in a purple logo I know these guys and I'm like what I mean, she's like, what's this, what's this like in a purple logo? I know these guys and I'm like, what, I mean, what the hell?
You don't know what Bitcoin is, how it works,
and you don't have any exchanges, wallet,
how you know VeChain?
And she's like, I mean, I know they partnered with a
Lily Raymond or something, and I'm like, this kind of
closest stuff with a use, and I'm like, oh shit.
That's, I mean, that's the real adoption, because, you know,
the best part, what I love about VeChain that you guys like you know expanding not only the Vap3
encrypt ecosystem but you know making attraction all across the globe and you
know that that's how the people know more about what we have in crypto and how
the technology at all makes the the life much more easier for the brands for the
users who like I mean just for the people who are
using something on the Bat 2, Clodis, watching UFC, riding on the BMV, going to Walmart,
and this kind of stuff.
You just made Sonny and Jake so happy to hear that the marketing is working.
Oh, yeah.
That's going to be clipped.
Carolina, shout out to you.
Awesome, awesome stuff.
Keep going, Timmy.
Hell yeah.
Great to buy VeChain though. did the girlfriend buy v chain did you just ask if a 12 year old bought v chain
is his girlfriend only 12 years old no he said his daughter
all right my bad my bad my bad yeah it's okay. So yeah, I mean, that's just amazing because, I mean, the people who don't know,
I mean, the hugest outcome like Solana, Ethereum,
and know about VeChain, I mean,
what are you doing, guys?
What type of marketing do you have?
So that's just dope, that's huge.
So yeah, about the questions,
coming back to the question,
I have the two questions, as I mentioned.
Would love to know the answer.
The first one is about the
as i mentioned that i mean you're working with the like real world businesses great and huge companies that everyone knows like walmart uh ufc uh not sure about bmw but probably you you
partner with them also and it's just super interesting to know about the kind of this
field and what generate the most transaction volume on v chain which which
part of this uh kind of companies would be super interesting to know and the answer and the second
one is about the uh the metrics uh that team considered like to to be most important to measure
the the real adoption beyond like let, let's say, token price,
because token is, of course, the main part, probably for 99% of the project that we have
on the field.
And, yeah, I just want to know which metrics do you use, guys?
Okay.
That's quite a big topic.
I try to simplify that.
Firstly, you're talking about enterprise adoption
or retail applications.
I did have some debate, actually funny enough,
with the Futter in the Telegram group a couple days ago.
I love that the CEO is still going to war
going to war with the flutters even when he can good job sonny way to defend your baby
with the Futter even when he can.
Good job, Sonny, way to defend your baby.
firstly um the enterprise application um you know we never stops right like you just mentioned
lately we just announced um the lululemon um and also the walmart has been running for seven years
long and actually some of the luxury brands we're still not even able to till,
but also running five, six years as well, so it keeps running.
But in terms of transaction volume from enterprise,
it's actually not as big as you think.
When you think about the supply chain,
you will think about like, yeah, how many products or how many data information, but the enterprise system, they will choose the most effective way
based on their business demands. That's a first. So the transaction volume, even
Walmart, the biggest time they can generate 100 million transactions per year, but still just
per year. So it cannot be comparing with, let's say, retail applications like VBetterDol in general.
At least every week you have a vote, you have a distribution, you have the application utilities
as well.
But let's say the current enterprise application,
I would say it still needs to be level up because today it kind of feels like,
it's like, I don't know if you guys know about this concept.
Even nobody's talking about that.
In the early days of the internet, there was a LAN network.
There is also a WAN network.
LAN is basically like a local area network. It's
within the company. You're hitting everybody in their local gaming game, Sonny.
Yeah. The WAN is more like in-minute today, right? So today's enterprise application,
because they don't use token directly, they still pay the gas fee for sure, but they don't have the token in the application somehow.
You know, it cannot, it just feels like it's a primitive stage of the application.
That's actually, I think, you know, for VBetterDAR, that type of ecosystem could the the ultimate way for enterprise to be adopted
to be you know um finding the new way to engage ways their users
right there you go i get sunny i'm surprised you haven't gotten a call in these last two hours.
So that's good.
No, I tried to, because I set up the time like for 6.30.
I know, but the do not disturb for some reason doesn't work for me.
But no, you're spot on here.
I think that again, I like where you're going with the VBetterDAO being that tool.
Because honestly, we just had that discussion this week on a local space in the community.
Yeah.
Where we were like, listen, it's great that we can build these great user interfaces.
But like you're saying, we got to level up these tools still.
Why don't we go and build some great point solutions through the VBatter DAO?
And those are our entry points into not only retail, but also the enterprises.
Exactly.
Could be like your Trojan horse.
You've got teams like Mugshot, like NFBC, like SolarWise, like Green Card
that are already making those strides.
I mean, hell, Better Beach just proved
that you could build a fucking nonprofit here.
So there's incredible pathways that are being developed.
But again, I think the community is unaware
of a lot of this happening,
which goes back to our navigator need.
Yeah, and also I have to say, like point out,
don't underestimate the complexity to onboard enterprise. It's very
difficult, especially in today's market sentiment. You know, people are like, oh, are you guys doing
a meme or something? You know, we're not interested about that. Or they were like, yeah, it's always
about market manipulation. We don't want to get involved in your token price or something like that. But still, I believe it's just like an e-commerce platform.
Nowadays, when enterprise tries to set up the e-commerce, they will choose collaborating with Alibaba or Amazon.
It will be much easier.
So, yeah, continue to work on that.
No, and we will. And Timmy, great question here and appreciate you coming up with,
you know, this community. As you can see, we do this, you know, once a month, but go follow some
of these guys because these are happening all the time. I mean, Rose is hosting daily stuff.
You got Poly TV every Monday. You got the V-Chain Cafe with Non-Fungible Book Club crew and him on
Wednesdays. There's awesome stuff happening here that I encourage you to dive deeper.
But let's keep moving forward.
I know we've got hands.
D, I hope that we got you loud and clear, my friend.
How are you?
And then we're going back to our co-host, Breaking Balls.
And then Flo, we'll see you over there.
Hello, everyone.
It's been a while, it feels like.
But yeah, I guess just to, I guess, cut it cut it a bit probably gonna get a bit boring a bit serious
but this question's really directly to sunny with regards to i appreciate the honesty of
saying probably we need to level up in certain areas but do you think that maybe being so
focused on the better dow i mean it feels like that is all I ever see
come out of V-Chain at the minute.
It's probably taking away some of the capability
for levelling up in certain areas
and also around, I guess, Hot Topic.
Yeah, I mean, it feels like there's an awful lot of effort going in to be better dow with making it
advertised again looking at the conversation just now looking at how we governance it i mean from
my perspective the v better dow should be completely sustainable and self-sufficient
however it seems like there's a lot of hand holding going on from the foundation which I feel is probably taking away valuable time away from
actually building the project away from VBetterDAO because I know it is a separate entity and I know
it has separate teams working on it but it does feel like the foundation is very sort of all in or nothing.
And I feel like maybe some of that capability could be used to onboard retail clients
and maybe bring in more liquidity and more total value locked to the ecosystem.
I'm a little bit lost here, honestly.
I don't see how you can be a bit lost, really.
I think it's a pretty straightforward question.
I think what I'm trying to say is,
do you feel that you are over-investing too much time
into the VBetterDAO where it could be used
in more areas of the foundation or more areas of the business
to drive more value?
I don't think so i i don't think we invest like too much into v better although um honestly right now um you know i i even wish like we can invest more in terms of the vBeta ecosystem or applications um but we couldn't honestly
um because obviously there's what that's that's my question actually back to you is what
what kind of examples uh for example like mimis or um anything like could drive the liquidity
right now in the market it's it's pretty tough market right
now no i don't know i appreciate that it's not good macroeconomics but i feel like you can't
just put these into place overnight they take years to build of course and i know stuff is
going on behind the scenes and you do touch on it there around the investment i think as well
i don't think there's been complete transparency around the um around the foundation and what proof of reserves looks like I think I can remember I
mentioned this on the space six months ago and I got told by Jake that something would be coming out
we're now in the next year um so I mean personally from my perspective if you're not going to do
any reports I would rather the foundation just say we're not going to do reports from here on.
A lot of companies don't.
We did that whole first topic in the first part of the space.
If you want to go.
OK, I'll go back to that.
I'll go back to that.
You'll love the answers.
Basically, long story short is foundation's been through these waves before.
You can turn on and off spend their operationalizing spend to make sure that we can focus on the core initiatives we've signed up for to make sure we can deliver on promises and then figure out the nice to haves to hopefully grow into as market sentiment returns, regulation gets more clarity.
And then when it comes to the Treasury report, more legal guidance on what they're allowed to share from their legal teams and advisors.
That's long story short, try to run through it really quick.
That's long story short.
Try to run through it really quick.
No, no, no.
I'll go back over at that point.
funds which ultimately is just taking money away from the projects um okay well let me ask you this
what's your suggestion what kind of areas be more specific what kind of projects we should
spend more time on that well we need to definitely get the evm compatibility sorted that's been on
the radar for over a year i appreciate that's probably going on in the background um the json compatibility um i think
i think there needs to be a new i mean you look around and a lot of these companies at the minute
crypto rise are very finance focused settlement focused which is why i like v chain because it's
not quite down that route but i think maybe with regards to how quick the transactions uh
down that route but i think maybe with regards to how quick the transactions uh process the amount
of transaction per seconds the v chain uh can actually withstand that something needs to be
done with regards to maybe money market funds and onboarding a more liquid uh income as opposed to
tracking sustainability um i think it's all very nice but how much value does
that really drive um in regards to total value locked and liquidity bought to the company so
what uh what what i still a little bit confused here. What's your suggestion? Is your suggestion like...
Well, I was hoping...
Do you talk about finance?
No, I mean, I work in finance.
I'm an auditor for a treasury, for a bank.
So, I mean, looking at it from our perspective,
I'm not going to have the answers.
I'm hoping that it would be you.
But it does feel like from...
There were some good updates.
A lot of this happened with the tokenomics.
But as far as VeChain and the ecosystem goes, aside from VBetterDAO,
I honestly couldn't sit here right now and tell you these are the next steps of VeChain.
And as an investor, I want to know what's on the horizon, what's coming up.
But it does feel very much so the better dow focused and not really
a timeline of what to expect in 2026 what are the key goals what are the key objectives how can we
look back at the end of 2026 and say this was successful i'm not talking regards to price
appreciation but i'm talking regards to um building uh more use cases and having a higher total value locked
and not being so sort of one-sided.
Okay, I get it.
I get it.
I understand that right now.
So let me tell you very straight.
I don't think anything else other than vBetter or X2.1 applications, meaningful, valuable,
fitting our strategy or fitting our vision in terms
of how to use Web3 for the real value.
Although even we're not limited to vBetter, we still open up to any kind of possible ideas
or new use cases. But again, it's still, there's only one criteria is to drive the value adoption,
meaning for utility. That's the only thing we care about. But if you ask about any financial
money-making funds, I'm i'm i'm not uh actually the
expert on that and i i don't think it's meaningful as well uh there are too many i mean not not
meaningful um there is some meaning for sure but there are too many competitors already i don't
think you know we we should uh do that no no no i'm not saying that it's why i like the chamber
because it's different from the others.
However, I think you mentioned it there around adoption, making it more adopting, making more people join.
But it's very sort of, there's a lot of pain points if you were to really adopt the VBetterDAO.
I think you wrote in a LinkedIn post that we are the first Web free application uh web store um which is fine but
for you to access that web store you need to download v world you need to go into the app
for my example i my my stepdad has a tesla i also have a tesla but i said to him look you need to
start earning you can earn from this and it is so complex for someone who does not really understand it. There needs to be a completely different app within the app store, which is probably VBetterDow focused, which completely takes away all of this.
Dee, I will say you're on the exact same page.
Yeah, I was going to say, Dee, that's the next phase that's happening right now.
So just to jump in here and then go to you breaking balls, because I know you have a point you want to jump on this. Dee, I agree with you, but I think that you need to look at this as the
VBetterDAO is like a Trojan horse. It's not that like, oh, it's only the VBetterDAO. It's these
apps and teams that are building these micro point solutions. I'm going to go back to a team that I
work with, Non-Fungible Book Club, that's building a solution like a Web3 Audible that's going to
enter the audiobook market and put blockchain in the background, filter some of the users over to the DAO that maybe are
more crypto native, but there's a giant majority of the population that are using the app for
the value-driven utility that is bringing to their everyday life.
For example, an author is earning way more on this platform than they can anywhere else,
and they're finally getting access to secondary sales through NFTs, which was not possible
with Web2 solutions today.
So that is where I think these solutions and use cases,
when you double down there,
they're native apps that you download on your phone.
Stepper's getting ready to do that.
Mugshot just downloaded a native app.
Green Card is doing that.
Where all of a sudden,
you don't even realize you're on fucking blockchain.
You're just using the tool because you like it,
and it's helping your life.
And I think that is where Sunny is doubling down.
And honestly, I agree with him because I think you can go compete in these other
areas, but you just hurt.
You'll you have to go back and listen to the start of the space.
We have to optimize our spend and we've got to go and figure out what is the focus
right now that's going to move the needle the quickest.
I think that Sunny is right.
We need to focus right now on building a bunch of use cases that drive revenue.
And I'm going to shout out Mugshot really quick.
Those revenue independent streams that get built, guess what it does to the ecosystem?
It creates a fucking revenue generation for the DAO.
Mugshot went and did a pilot use case of $5,000.
It's a small start.
But they injected $500 into the DAO.
That's huge.
Yeah, yeah.
Let me do that.
Yeah, I don't, right now, now like i said i don't think there
is any other place any other areas is more prob more fitting the v chain strategy so that's what
we're doing with v better doubt and also v better has lots of the issues or challenges yes that's
right and then you know we continue to do that actually we just
spend quite a bit a long time to talk about the new proposal try to address that kind of quality
issue the application allocation and everything yeah that's that's it well unfortunately if you
are not really you know into the v-bet at all you think it's no hope either you give me some
suggestions no i think it's not i don't say it's no hope but
putting my audit hat on for a second how can something be successful as long as there are
people exploiting the system it's like me i'm gonna say i'm gonna put in 200 pounds into my
savings account every month to try and save for something but but without me knowing there's
someone behind my back going and taking that 100 pounds every month like every financial system on
the world today right now and
so what you're saying i totally understand but like that's everything and i think that was a
huge part of the discussion again just before on trying to improve toward a governance focus on
focusing on the quality to minimize the issues that we're seeing with people exploiting the
ecosystem because if you can minimize that like you're saying 100% agree we can go and build these great tools and is it minimized by having a higher standard of being able to have your app onto it because
from what I can see there's such a big push this audit is coming in but there was such a big push
towards we need 100 by the end of the year right it might be wow having 100 but it's only three of
cutting you off but like we literally just talked about this, so sorry, brother.
But Sonny actually took his word back and said I was wrong.
And we were right that we need to go focus on quality.
So everything you're saying, dude, you are spot on.
And for those that don't know, me and Dee talk in the background.
I fucking love this guy.
He's a great community member.
For those that don't know, make sure you're following him.
He has great critical questions.
He is here to support the ecosystem for the long term and clearly has a unique perspective
with his financial auditing hat.
But D, yes, 100% agreed.
Can I jump in here on this conversation?
Yes, because I know you have a point.
Yeah, D, no, no, for sure.
I think a lot of the stuff that you're seeing as far as eggs in one basket, and I know,
you know, Sonny's made himself available to us uh in the last couple
months I think some of us in the beginning were wish we're wishing we were we had our hands held
a little bit more uh something uh that I always like to say is this community you know for for
the ones that are here that are working every day trying to help this thing while juggling life and
and stuff like that we're here to you know push thing forward. And a lot of the noise and a lot of, not the noise,
but a lot of the promotion, a lot of things
that you're seeing is organic participation from us,
whether folks are building tools to hunt down farming
networks, to stop exploitations,
whether it's a wingman or pilot who's using that tool to
expose these folks more to show these bad actors then coming into the governance level
where it's those guys and us and now Sonny and a handful of other really smart and focused
and people that want to see this thing through.
We're doing all this work.
It's not me-chain.
Yeah, we might write a proposal
and they have to do the smart contracts
at the end of the day, but it's us.
It's the community.
And we're here and we're still early.
We can't expect that this is going to just work right away.
Will it fail?
Yeah, I've asked AI a million times
if X to earn is the way to go, and it hasn't always
been kind. But things that I've seen happening recently have been really good. And it's not
going to, not to say that it's going to be perfect, but mugshot finding independent revenue.
Green Cart, if you haven't taken their survey yet about where they're headed and their cashback and
how their flywheel will work,
then you aren't paying attention.
Not you, I'm talking about the whole ecosystem.
That green cart is the ultimate app right now if you want to show it to your father.
Because you will download the app from your phone,
you will buy purchasing green and organic stuff from the grocery store,
or link your Amazon account or other applications,
and you will earn better back. And then they're even building things further that are getting
more excited that will eventually lead to more investment back into the DAO. So are there a
bunch of shitty DApps? Yes. And Sonny has already said that he was wrong and he apologized profusely to me, of course, not Connor, just me, that we start small and we're looking for real applications here.
But we're trying to figure out the system.
And if you come and I know you're more, you know, be chain financial side heavy.
But if you come into our discord and see some of the proposals that we're writing to limit some of the bad actors, whether it's adjusting some things that are going on
currently so that people that don't get that many votes don't get a free handout. They're getting
such a minimal amount of better that what they're selling doesn't matter. Or the systems that we
are creating or guardian by mugshot or wild bill and you know a night owl like these things are
coming out of nowhere and i think what the v better has done that has done is taken a bunch
of disrupted b chain people that just keep asking when all time high and it's turned them into an
army of soldiers that want to see this thing succeed now will we will it happen are we not
are we not taking deposits as from these apps and going right
this is a deposit taken from yourself if you don't deliver or we have any sort of complication
thinking you're a bad actor this will be withheld like there needs to be yes we're that's where
we're going yeah we're writing things we're we're figuring out ways we're thinking of you know
writing you know bylaws or just our rules in place that we can use to write
proposals to boot bad DFS out.
We've already booted three or four bad DFS out with written proof from the blockchain
using software that was created by a community member and stuff like that.
So it's there.
Thank you, Bibi.
I always say in short summary, what we're exploring here and working on the KIP iteration about VBetter is 100 times better than the MIMIs, than even the purpose trading, honestly.
So right now, honestly, just if there is nothing else meaningful or valuable, I'm not saying like VBetter is going to be gold.
It's going to be guaranteed success i can i didn't say that but i just say right now that's the best
opportunity we have if we want to build anything valuable utility we're going to keep doing that
right that's quite concerning do you not think that's quite short-sighted
i don't d and i know we could talk about that's the reason we's quite short-sighted? I don't, Dee. And I know we could talk about this for a while. That's the reason we are very long-sighted.
We're not short-sighted, but long-sighted.
So, Dee, just a little perspective for you.
I think that we're going to see five minimum capital raises here happen for pre-seed startup
investment in this community, and it's going to change the entire perspective of the Dow.
You're going to see multiple teams raise a million dollars at least.
For sure, at least $250K for some of the early ones to spin
up this flywheel of what i think people are going to realize is this new long-term plan i encourage
you to get in that discord d because you would be a fantastic contributor i know i'd be an auditor
exactly dude i think you'll be i think you'll be like a navigator i think you would be a great
potential navigator but also d we do need more of these people auditing.
You know, shout out to, you know, Al in the chat.
I know he added you.
We need more people that have the skills to do this, and we have tools in place.
So come help this group, because as you heard breaking balls, it's an army of community members.
It's not just the foundation, because go back to the early part of the space.
They're, you know, they're focusing their resources.
So we're here to help.
And, dude, I love your perspective.
Thank you for bringing up this critical discussion.
This is why I like having you up here.
So get in that chat.
Sorry to keep going.
Yeah, apology.
I will end now.
So I do apologize.
No need.
But I will say thank you, France, for my questions and taking the time to go over it with me again, even if you have repeated yourself.
I am in it for the – I am really into V-Chain.
So I might come across as negative,
but it's because I care. No, no, no. That's all good.
Honey, this is the crew that, again, you have around you. You're not going to have any yes
men. That's all good. You've got this crew that's going to make you say, tell me why
I should fucking believe you. And Dee is one of those great ones. So Dee, I fucking love
you, man. Thank you for bringing up this discussion, firing up the community, because I assume
a lot of people also think what you're thinking, which is why let's get on the same page, crew.
Let's figure out what to do because maybe some of this crew is actually right.
Who knows?
Let's go toudge list and you
will see my pretty face right on there so uh we need we need all of us because we won't change
we won't move anything unless we say stuff you know so damn right and he listens dude you can
see it here like this is why we have these spaces it's not just oh yeah tell us how great we are
no what the fuck is going wrong this is why this is here so awesome, this is why we have these spaces. It's not just, oh yeah, tell us how great we are. No, what the fuck is going wrong? This is why this is here. So awesome job.
I want to go to these other two hands. Pauly, I know your hand has been up for a long time.
Then we're going to go to you, Flawed. Shout out to you again for the D-Rep stuff earlier.
But Pauly, anything to add here? And D, again, thank you.
Yeah, thank you, because I do have to get back on the floor. But I wanted to follow D and Breaking
to focus specifically on this topic, because as Breaking Ball mentioned, you know, we've had a couple
years now with the DAO and obviously we've been watching and seeing issues, right? And we've been
working on fixing them and there's different aspects to fix, right? Like one, figuring out
how these people are taking advantage of the DAO, right? How do we undo that?
And how do we move on to find ways to develop the DAO in a way that we can
prevent it from happening in the future?
And there's a few applications that Breaking Balls mentioned, you know,
Reheat just built Wallet Watcher,
which is going to allow us to see a lot of things going on.
You know, Piero from Mugshot is developed is developed defender which is going to help us massively
guardian sorry i always get these names mixed up um that's going to help us you know with these
bots and other things and and uh you know my co-founder break uh wild bill in developing our
app has developed uh night owl which is going to be something that is going to work really well
with these two others uh and you know we're going to actually be able is going to work really well with these two others.
And, you know, we're going to actually be able to see a lot of stuff going on,
potentially even stop some of these things early, if not before they happen,
early enough that they don't do a ton of damage.
And these are going to probably be tools that the navigators are going to be able to use to do the auditing.
Right. So this community,
you know, it's not just a foundation as hard as they are working as much as they do care about
this. You know, this is something the community embraces as well. And we've had community members
taking it on themselves to build tools we need to, you know, kind of stop this drain. You know, it's, it's hard to sell a token like better to
meme coiners or people looking for gains. If the token you're, you're showing them is constantly
going down and we got sunny having to buy up millions of better. It's that's not sustainable.
Sorry, sunny. We don't want to see you have to buy a bunch of better. Uh, so if we can find a way
to slow that and stop it and then
Stop not only the perpetual drain
But then we start to see these teams like Connor mentioned that are actually able to put money back into better
We can start to see the value of it going up and we can start to see
Oh, okay. There's this is something people will want to do these actions to earn this token because it's actually not
constantly going down right uh you know this is a big puzzle we're trying to fix we got a lot of
people that have been working really hard trying to solve it and we're we're making good progress
whether whether you look at the price and what's happened lately and believe it we're making really
good progress and i think this next six to 12 months
we're gonna see the better token have a really nice revival i don't know if we'll hit 50 cents
again but maybe we'll see 10 cents uh down the road uh coming soon who knows we'll see but thanks
connor for letting me up here man i appreciate it you gotta get back out thank you legend like i
said at the start of this space, Paul is usually up here in the
co-host spot, but he stepped away to the bathroom to make sure that he could take that. Appreciate
you. Go back to your 9-to-5. Hopefully, we'll steal you from that soon. But great job, dude.
Seriously. And D, can't wait to see you get involved, man. As you can see, there's an army
here. It's just about an awareness game. And that's what I think half this space was about.
So go listen to that first half. Come into that discord uh if you haven't been sent it
somebody here in the community please dm him um and get him in here and don't click any discord
link actually that's a bad idea that i just said that um anyway uh we'll i'll send it to you um
let's go to flawed flawed anything to uh add in here? Yeah, I'll be quick because I'm breaking camp.
I'm going to take things a slightly different direction away from the technical and the financial.
And because that's at the end of the day, what's building, what's regulating, what's doing all of this stuff.
I'm out here in Arizona right now at a festival teaching people about on two different blockchains.
right now at a festival teaching people about crypto on two different blockchains.
The thing that I wanted to bring up is we have to make this as simple as possible, man. The ease
of adoption is how we get people. It's too complicated. There's too many steps involved
all across the board. The most common thing I hear from people are that they're just looking
for an easy, safe way to get into crypto.
They don't know what that path is.
And that's what I'm trying to show them is the easiest and safest path as possible.
But at the end of the day, we want to do mass adoption, as I air quote, because I think we'll finally see that when we quit saying it.
We're not going to see it as long as we're beating that drum.
It's gotta be simple, man.
If your grandma can't learn this stuff,
then you can't get people on board.
It's that simple.
Which is why the jail is the Trojan horse.
Yeah, and also the social logging
or the custodian for retail.
Honestly, if you checked out,
there was no custodian for retail right now. Only the custodian for retail. Honestly, if you checked out, there was no custodian for retail right now,
only the custodian for institutions
because the current business model
for most of the custodian provider
is just care about how much assets you have
so they can take a haircut
about as asset management
or as a transaction fees.
So the custodian for retail,
social logging, and even the on-ramp, off-ramp, I know the regulation and compliance is a hustle, but that's how we're
going to get there. Connor, I have only a few minutes. I really have to jump to-
I figure you do. So then let's do the really important question. Breaking balls, you go
right now, and then J-Chains, we're going to go to you so that we can wrap with Sunny.
I can share a little bit about
Nubila if you guys... That is literally
the question. So perfect.
Oh, breaking balls, you sound like Terminator.
Fix your headphones.
Don't kill me.
Yeah, no, you do sound like Terminator.
I know we're getting ready to talk Nubila.
You don't have to be angry about it.
Okay, there you go.
Sonny, I don't have to repeat myself.
I did tag you, Kim, and Nan in the Discord and the Nubilla channel.
I've been talking to Kim offline.
Just in general, I've been following Nubilla since they came on since last March.
From the get-go, they've been.
I know.
I know.
I know. I just have community members here because I'm one of the community members that spent over 20,000 better
in in you know and we're at the point where we don't feel like their project's alive anymore
but they have us in a place where they still owe us five months worth of rebates and we're just
worried that they're going to just walk away yeah Or we would rather them just pay us out and then call it a day if there's nothing else.
Because we've tried our best, man.
So I just wonder if you have any insight on that.
No hard feelings.
Firstly, I really don't have time for the details about the new beta.
But I met the founder a couple months ago. and I just want to share, you know, what I know.
They do have lots of the challenges and especially during the TGE.
You know, I even give them the suggestion, but they, let's put it this way,
they get screwed up a couple of times by trying to list the biggest exchange in the world.
But honestly, right now, we all know what's going on, right?
I don't want to say the name, but there were lots of manipulations.
There were lots of inside traders.
And even, honestly, I know some of the projects,
they try to manipulate the price in, let's say, in the A,
but getting, well, they all call the A.
Fuck. A, but getting, well, they all called A, fuck.
They manipulate the price in the spot or in the DAX,
and then they can get quite a big money or profits from the derivative trading.
You know the typical movement?
Even they made a public statement.
I mean, those exchanges made a public statement saying like, oh, we're going to try to audit.
We're going to try to find the rats.
But, you know, sometimes it's actually an inside job, in my view.
I mean, no.
So they have been struggling about these type of things.
I heard a couple of times.
Again, it's just what I heard.
I didn't even verify that.
And we didn't even get our tokens as investors, to be honest. So I passed all of your inquiries or all your information
a couple of times to that. What they replied to me is, oh, they're going to try to refund all of the staking.
And, you know, if they get any type of the better token, they will just redistribute it to the users 100%.
That's what I heard from the CEO, from Benson.
Are they self-endorsing, though?
Or is that something where it's like you guys, since you helped, like you funded,
or made some investment, is that something where, you know, they're self-endorsed?
So the question is, do they deserve to still be on the DAO right now?
I mean, I'm not the one to judge.
I'm not the one to judge.
Vote if you don't like, call the vote, vote them out.
I don't care.
Because even I cannot manage that. I cannot decide that. I don't have the right position. Actually, nobody
should have the right position to say, okay, keep them, vote them out. No. If you don't like,
come up with a proposal, vote them out. It's a doubt, right? Nobody should make that kind of a centralized decision on that.
The issue, though, Sonny, and I know you have to go, is in that proposal, what about the money that they owe people?
We're just going to say, wow, everybody got screwed.
So there's out levels to it.
We don't need to ask now.
But, Sonny, I appreciate you going through this.
And I know you've got to hop.
Any final thoughts from you as we get ready to wrap up Space 30? And I can't thank you enough for kicking off 2026 with the community, having a very
critical debate, having a lot of fun and laughs, as we always do, and moving the needle forward.
Appreciate you. Any final thoughts? I would say, like, you know, I won't be, I will be very
straightforward and direct. I know a lot of communities, like Bibi just said,
there are lots of funding messages, spammy messages on my tweets.
I read about that.
I kind of understand why, well, I do understand people's frustration
about the price, about the market performance.
The market is not rationale, for sure, 100%.
It's not just my opinion, actually, loads of the people's opinion.
You know, but what I'm just saying, like the crypto, the blockchain is something we do
love, right?
The industry is something we do love and we wanted to protect that.
But unfortunately, whatever happening in the market is destroying the technology, right?
Like I said, think about how long we have been waiting or how long we have been not seeing any kind of utility case or any kind of technology debates or involvement.
The market, unfortunately, I would say that the toxic players are destroying the markets,
destroying the industry we love.
So I want to call for the action.
That's the only narrative for VeChain to play, is we're going to fight for the utility to
do whatever we can to fight for the utility, keep building, and save the crypto as something we love right just like
you love your family love your house and if somebody come to your house and try to trash
your kitchen what you're going to do you're going to kick them out you're going to fight for that
right that's the only thing i want to say so i have to go um thank you very much for you guys
and really enjoy here bye thank. Thank you, Sonny.
You're the best.
Let's get some hearts and some applause in this group.
Always great to have the CEO of E-Chain with us.
Thanks, Sonny.
Well, Jake, you got to be quiet for a while.
How'd that feel?
Yeah.
Good.
I was doing some stuff in the background.
Got the smart car
announcement out evn 30 plus brands connected evs plus hybrids if anyone's a driver of the 30
plus brands on smartcar.com you can now get on the get on evn and um yeah hopefully a lot more simple experience for D and the team. Yes. Yes.
No, awesome team.
And JChains, I know we had you come up.
Sorry, we weren't able to get to you earlier, dude.
But anything you have to add on the discussion here?
It's been great to see you travel in the world and speaking about VeChain boots on the ground anywhere you can.
Absolutely, man.
Well, first off, appreciate you hosting this. You're a legend,
not only here in this V-Chain ecosystem, but in crypto in general. I know you're doing a lot of good. So keep doing that, man. Love to see everything that you're doing. And man, there
are some legends up here on this stage as well as in the crowd. So make sure you guys are throwing
some follows out there. You've got some absolute crypto royalty here. So you know what? It was
really cool for me. Okay. So like you said, I've been traveling the world i've been gone i uh kind of fell off some
of the things that i was doing every day as far as you know even the be better dow ecosystem but
you know the one thing we got to remember guys is and d kind of you know some of the things that
you were talking about the emphasis and pushing on it the dow is less than two years old we're
actually coming on next month is the uh is the two-year birth date or the two-year anniversary of the Dow starting.
And so when you think about crypto, yeah, two years is quite a long time for us, right?
Like a week is a whole different ballgame than in IRL.
But really to think about what they've accomplished in less than two years
and where we're going, which really you got to think the retail crowd has not been here
and the Dow is to think the retail crowd has not been here. And the Dow
is dependent on the retail crowd because you got to think this is, you know, this is environmental,
this is ecosystem. This is like the real world. This has nothing to do with institutions. So like
while we're seeing a huge institution, this is the institutional bull run guys,
retail kind of lost control of the ecosystem. It's just a good, it's probably a good thing,
right? Because now we're going to get a bunch of regulation. We're going to get some guidelines. We're going to get,
you know, the, uh, the framework built in order for, you know, we talked about mass adoption
earlier in order for that mass adoption to come. The structure has to be there. We already know
the SEC, the FDIC and banks, they want to offer crypto to the retail clients. They're, they've
already pushed 4% to the private wealth clients, which is a mass
thing. That is going to be huge, right? So once the banks and the infrastructure that is being
laid out right now can offer retail crypto, that is when we're going to see our next catalyst.
That is when we'll see the next big push. And you'll see a lot more people come into crypto
with a better idea and a better mindset and framework because
they feel safer because now the groundwork's been laid down to come to this ecosystem.
And so, you know, I, again, I've been all over the world over the last couple of months. I've
been connecting with actual builders and people who are excited to be here. It's a renewed sense
of excitement of the industry and ecosystem for me, considering that we potentially
could be in a little bit of a micro bear market. But that's okay. Because one of the things that
we also talked about on this show, and I heard you guys talk about was, look, there's a lot of
ecosystem bloat that we've got. If you look at, like I got in crypto in 2017. And if you look at
CoinMarketCap, man, there was like a few thousand coins back then. Now there's like 30 million coins.
And so we could
use times like this to trim the ecosystem a little bit make it a little bit better and so that when
the retail does come back there's not so many stupid options for them of fart coin you know
all these stupid things that don't really do much for the ecosystem and the the the world moving
forward but if when you think about what v chain is doing with the v better dow ecosystem i love
that sunny's going to double down. They should
triple down, quadruple down. They should do everything
they can necessary because when retail
comes, just like we know from Boston Consultant
Group, tokenization is fucking massive.
We all know that. Sustainability
is equally massive because more
people in the fucking world care about it.
I was really glad to hear
Sonny say what he said. When he said
that he's just a fucking community member, just like us, I love that.
I say that to my community, but to hear Sonny say that to his community, let's fucking go.
Appreciate you guys hosting this space as always, Connor.
Again, make sure you guys start following some of the people that are on the stage as well as in the crowd, because there are some amazing people here.
Sorry, I was long winded, but let's go with V-Chain, baby.
Let's get it.
I think that's a perfect summary, my man. I love it. Jay Chains, appreciate everything you do for
this community. Another one of those guys that's hosting spaces all the time for this group to get
together and continue the discussion outside of once a month. I know it's great to have this,
but at the same time, we need to be talking more often than once a month team. We'll come together
to use this as like an overall summary,
try and move the needle, you know, get a lay of the land.
But these micro conversations between community members,
not just the foundation, that's what's moving the needle here.
So get involved.
You can see there's a lot of places that it's happening.
It's happening here on X.
It's happening in the VBetterDAO Discord,
which is separate from VeChain.
It's specifically focused on governance proposals,
a lot of team
management. D, get your auditing hat on, get in there. I have joined actually, but I can't
see the chat. No worries. You probably have to go through the authorization and verify yourself.
Go check. Okay, cool. Cheers, mate. But awesome crew. I think we go around and kind of wrap up
here and i'll say
in transparency we didn't get to probably two-thirds of the stuff we were hoping to but
it's because we went down some important rabbit holes that i know were very top of mind for this
community so we'll try and get to them the next space i promise this will not be two months into
the next one me and jake will have it planned, hopefully here shortly. Just crazy madness with the end of 2025 and starts 2026.
And as a reminder, Jake's a new dad.
There are things outside of crypto that happened.
And he's doing a great job.
So we're going to go around the horn for some final thoughts here
and get ready to wrap up the 30th spaces to sum up three years together.
Absolutely crazy it's been this long. And so,
Dee, you've been talking a lot. I'm going to keep going to you, man. I can't thank you enough for,
again, driving a critical discussion. You've been fantastic in this community behind the scenes.
It's been great to get to know you over the year. What's on your mind?
Yeah, I mean, I see the value. I really really do and that's why i'm sort of sticking around
but i do think there needs to be a more um which i don't want it to be like a corporate institution
but when you think about the the levels of competency um it does need to step up a level
i think with regards to ensuring everyone's protected as an investor, making sure that the VBetterDAO is self-sustaining.
I think that's my one concern about that. It doesn't feel very self-sustaining at the moment.
I guess that might change. I think everybody agrees with you, by the way.
But I think overall, it's a good area to be in. It's a good project.
Like I say, if VChain was dropping and everything was pumping,
I'd be a bit concerned.
But everything is dropping.
I think as well, we fall in that niche category,
which is sort of focused on supply chain, which is great.
Because if you look at the competition around it,
there's not an awful lot.
But at the same time, that market is not there yet
to sort of properly drive retail investment so I think that's probably where we're lacking
and that's sort of why I'd like to see more stuff come on to chain more applications that aren't
vbetadal focused and probably drive more sort of community growth as well. I think it's hard. Sonny said, what would
I suggest? I have no idea what I would suggest. I think that's the thing. It's just like,
because I know I don't think you're going to have people disagree with you. And that's what I'm
saying. Get in these chats because it's just like, where do we begin? We know we have to do all of
these things, but like, what can we do now? And, you know, I think really start thinking about
timelines in terms of not weeks, timelines in terms of quarters, timelines in terms of multiple
years. You know, I will say there's multiple teams I've built roadmaps with this year that are well
over five years. And if that doesn't get you guys thinking about that, start thinking about it.
Yeah, I would say as well on that, I think, I can't remember, I think it was Jay Chains, who was just up here, mentioned around when the institutions come,
they'll come. But I will say that with regards to the banking industry, they are notoriously slow,
they are notoriously regulated. So from a banking perspective, I probably wouldn't expect to see
anything, especially probably from a UK focus lens for a good few years.
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Which is probably 20, 30 plus really.
Yeah. What can we do in the meantime? So you're on the same pitch.
D, you're the man, dude. Appreciate all of your perspective.
Can't wait to see you in the discord contributing to the crew and looking forward to future convos.
Get me on some audits. Yes, sir. Let's get this man into the navigator role.
I told you, Breaking Balls, we're going to find him.
Yeah, I'll flush him out.
But yeah, thank you very much, guys.
See you later.
We'll see you later.
Tim, thank you for coming up here.
Appreciate you joining us as one of the newer speakers.
Hopefully you enjoyed today's space.
Any final thoughts from you?
Yeah, amazing space guys and yeah just to to wrap up everything that uh speakers and me been saying uh don't forget the drives the crypto projects as the community of course the first
one is the heart of any project and the the second one, I think, the utility.
So, you know, when you are checking the project on the VAT,
most of the time, I mean, yeah, lots of questions today.
You know, just a token, what you're going to do?
We don't need it, bro.
I mean, we come back to the VAT too.
And VeChain has the product.
Pretty great one, I'd say.
And you already have great use cases from the huge company.
So that's right, Pat, guys.
And, I mean, I would love to join you next time.
I have lots of questions to you.
So thank you.
Come join us, man.
Get in those spaces.
Like I was saying, PolyTV, JChain's, you know, non-fungible book club crew with designer, you know, Builder down there.
Go get involved in rows. Like, there a tons of conversations happening. We just need more
people to participate. Let's build this army. Do you think as well, just on that, do you think
bi-monthly sessions like this is too spread out? No, because I don't think we have enough
significant movements to be able to like, all right right we got to get this here and make sure
that we have a two-hour session i think these like intermediate sessions make sense now it doesn't
mean we can't increase the frequency i just don't think it makes sense yet but i will say maybe we
gonna get there soon do we do we look at looking at more of a v-chain as a whole so do we get
people who are working different areas of v-chain to come on and explain what is going on oh yeah how they're trying to drive value as opposed to it um being more community focused
do we actually start calling out the business and start saying right you need to bring this person
from this area to come and give a 30 minute download of what's happening what their objectives
are what their goals are because like i said to sunny i'm not too sure what the goals are what
would class is a successful year for V-Chain,
aside from price appreciation.
And that's where combos need to happen.
And I agree.
So that's been a theme also.
You're going to love getting into this Discord, D.
You're just going to see everything that's going on
that you've been talking about here.
Everybody is kind of on that path of which
if we need these more channels,
we need these more kind of routine,
consistent mechanisms where we can talk,
where we can actually move the needle forward
versus just like shooting ideas
and then no one takes action.
And so this group is trying to now only talk,
but then use that conversation
to actually take action,
which is where I think you'll get a ton of value.
And also anybody listening here, come join.
This is not like closed off.
This is gonna need armies of people. Right now,
we're in the hundreds. I'd love it to be in the thousands. But D, thank you as always,
my man. And yes, again, as usual, spot on. I'll stop coming off mute. We're pretty much
on the same page as usual. We've had enough conversations behind the scenes. Flame,
anything to add here, man? Again, sorry that we weren't able to get too deep into your VFounder role.
It sounds like we'll probably have to have a full space on that as well with you and Nestor.
But any thoughts from you on the discussion today, my friend?
Is it my turn?
Yes, sir.
Had a blast.
Had a blast.
I didn't miss my, like the we didn't do a v founder breakdown
right no no you're good you're good we'll do that in the next space we were hoping we were
going to get to it today but i'm not going to pull sunny out of that rabbit hole yeah we were able to
have a pretty great yeah the value that's why that's literally my final thoughts the value we
get out of sunny and you know somebody that big he doesn't have to really give an F or whatever.
You know, you look at like Brad Garlinghouse.
We're not seeing Brad Garlinghouse jump in Twitter spaces and, you know, at Charles abandoned his ex and replaced it with a bot.
And, you know, it's just cool to have Sonny kind of level with us and chop it up with us.
So it's good to see everybody.
And, Connor, I appreciate you taking the time.
I mean, what is that, a two and a half?
Well, we run two and a half hours today. So really appreciate you taking the time I mean what is that a two and a half well we run two and a half hours today so really appreciate you putting the time in
D I mean dude you kind of pissed me off a little bit earlier but then after I gave it some time
I understood where you're coming from and I do appreciate people like you too so um yeah yeah
I come from a good place so I I hope you know that I'm not here to fud and just spread shit.
I want to see movements.
So, yeah, I'm glad you came around.
I came around, but you are still low-key a fudder, but that's cool, though.
But no, no, no, seriously.
I was breaking off.
I've been happy to be here, and it's been a blast.
And I wish these things happened more frequently than a month
because they're always so much fun.
So I look forward to the next Conor Space yeah, thank you everybody. It was awesome.
Have a great day, everyone. Thank you, Legend. D, I think we got to get you on the futter list.
Bring balls. You can give him some advice. Anyway, Jay Chains, final thoughts from you,
my man. I know you came in here at the end, but we're listening the whole time. You know,
any last words?
Just again, I appreciate you having this space and giving everybody the opportunity, again, from Sonny down to the community members.
Even though he said he is one, you know, we are on a different level for sure.
But I do understand what he's saying.
But at the end of the day, guys, like what I like to end my shows with is always it's about that self growth, right?
You know, I love the idea of incorporating the, the, the better doubt ecosystem because it's about becoming better.
It's about making the world better.
It's about making yourself better.
And I will always end a show with find something to get you out of your comfort zone and make
you better, right?
Maybe you've been procrastinating doing something.
Maybe you haven't been going to the gym.
Maybe you let your goals slip through the cracks already and we're only halfway through January.
I don't know.
But start to work on that.
1% better every single day.
That's consistency.
That's the shit that adds up.
And that's how you can turn a frown upside down.
That's how you can find a new career.
That's how you can find a new community or a network.
Whatever it is, just keep working on it.
Stay consistent.
And that's it, man. That's self-growth right there. So 1% better every single day. uh community or a network whatever it is just keep working on it stay consistent and uh and
that's it man that's that's self-growth right there so one percent better every single day
that's all you guys should be worried about right now because crypto sucks right now crypto the
entire ecosystem sucks so while you're dca and while you're trying to stack your bags while
you're trying to build up your portfolio work on yourself a little bit damn right my brother
couldn't have said it better paulie one of those
guys that's always working on himself sometimes good sometimes bad sometimes worse but sometimes
better um paulie anything to add here thank you as always for finding ways to jump in here even
though you're running around like a chicken with your head cut off all the time dude can't say it
enough you've been as much we give you dude. You've been in such an incredible pillar.
Oh, I appreciate it.
And, you know, you tried really hard to pick a spot that I couldn't get in.
But you know what?
This is what resilience looks like.
You know what I mean?
But no, I appreciate you, Connor.
Appreciate Jake and everybody up here.
Sonny, Jay Chainsflame, Breaking Balls. Shout out to Breaking Balls.
Filling in the co-host duties.
It's just great conversation as always. Glad that we could all listen in.
And yeah, let's get more active in these talks.
You know, Dee brings up a lot of good points.
And this is stuff that we're all trying to work together on.
It's been moving for a while, and I feel like we're making some real progress.
So shout out to the community that's been engaged in trying to figure this out.
And I think 2026 is going to be a real good year for the VFAM.
So shout-out to you, Connor.
Appreciate you, my guy.
Even though you kind of suck, but you're cool still, too, kind of.
It's weird.
But appreciate you.
We'll talk to you soon, my man.
Swear to God I'm going to fire that guy.
Anyway, Paul, great job, too. Love you.
Breaking balls, dude.
First co-host job here.
Doesn't suck to do it on the 30th
space, wrapping up three years
of this chaos and the first one of
2026. How'd it feel, man?
We got you.
Oh, never mind. You terminator dude yeah you're definitely terminator right now this
is what you sounded like when you were getting ready to yell at sonny about nubilla he definitely
scared him too um so this might be a good voice to bring out every once in a while
more like breaking up balls yeah right can you can you hear me there you go we got you now we
got okay great oh thanks for you know having me on i appreciate the the co-host spot uh
paulie you know hope i did you proud buddy um i think a lot is to be said here from this
conversation i feel like d has brought in a mentality of you know that that's needed a lot
of us here right now are very better Dow focused.
Whether that's good or bad,
that's where a lot of us are.
But I do agree for the respect
to some of the older BG holders.
It wouldn't be a bad idea
to maybe have a space
with some of the folks
that he's talking about
to see where their moves are,
like, you know, the deals
with Lululemon and what's going on with that.
And, you know, I think transparency would let a lot of investors, you know, be at ease a little bit and giving him that, like, open things up for him to maybe feel the more open-minded words of the Dow.
So, you know, I hope that they can work together at the end of the day.
You know, based on what JChains is saying and kind of like what we're saying here, I think in order for us to fully
succeed, there's got to be a lot of things that happen either all at once or slowly one
by one.
Retail coming in could happen at any time.
Money can come back in at any time.
We don't know that.
All we do know right now is that we can build and make this system as as good and powerful
as we can because I'll tell you this all better is one sense right now.
It's a lot less.
You know.
Farmers and sheets are not going to come in as much as when it gets up back up to 15
20 cents.
So we can use this time to build and build a fortress around us by doing that.
Then hopefully if we ever do come back to that day, that money will then bring real people.
But then it can't be also, you know, like a,
now you can believe that the farmers will come back times 10.
So I hope that during this time, since we've learned our lessons,
that we can continue to build and figure out systems
so we can protect ourselves moving forward.
And then hopefully when that happens,
when everything kind of all works together,
then maybe this will be a success.
Maybe it won't, but as Jay Chains has said,
this now and just becoming a community member
and becoming friends with a lot of people
that are on this panel has made me a better person.
It's made me a smarter person. It's made me a smarter person,
it's made me a more critical thinker.
I know that's a selfish way to think
in the terms of the looks that I do for the token value.
Well, it gives my life value, you know,
and it makes me want to fight for it
and fight for my brothers here that are doing it every day.
So Connor, you're one of my brothers
and I appreciate all of our conversations
and many of you down here, please join the Discord if you're interested of my brothers, and I appreciate all of our conversations.
Many of you down here, please join the Discord if you're interested in the DAO, but also if you're reaching Maxie.
We get it too, man.
It's good to want answers.
I think that they were all investors.
So I'll leave you with that.
Thanks again.
Peace.
Hearing Breaking Balls say, Connor, you're my brother in the Terminator voice was kind of awesome. And yes, everybody, your headphones were also listening to Breaking
Balls as a Terminator, not just mine. But Breaking Balls, we did get most of that,
so I didn't want to interrupt you. As always, dude, fantastic job. Thank you for everything
you do and right back at you, man. You've been such a great staple in this ecosystem. I appreciate all of the critical feedback. I appreciate all of the support,
all of the learning that we've done together. We have so much more to do, but it's people like you,
people like Dee, people like JChains, Flame and crew up here, Pauly, not too bad, that just,
you know, are continuing to get activated to move this ecosystem forward. And I'm telling you guys,
there is no barrier to go and get activated in the community.
Just go fucking put yourself out there.
See where you can plug in
because it's gonna take an army
and there's still so many pieces we need
to put this puzzle piece together.
So I'm excited to do it with you all.
But VChain, couldn't be doing this
without you guys being here
because we're doing this around you.
And so Jake, 30 spaces deep, man. You've been with us for the entire time i can't thank you enough sure you got a little easier
today you know got to sit back and let sunny do some of the talking but any final thoughts from
you man as we get ready to wrap up number 30 yeah i mean just yeah a time of evolution in
many aspects isn't it there's so much going on around the world right now in
V-chain land, in crypto land, in geopolitics, in commodities.
It feels like there's a new era dawning.
I know it sounds cheesy,
but it really is like that at the moment.
I don't know. That's my pondering thought there.
I mean, obviously, great space guys. Love that Sonny gets in, goes toe to toe.
We were talking about the agenda earlier. He's just like, fuck it, man. I'm going to do it.
He's always happy to jump in and get in the mix with everyone. So these conversations really help
because obviously he comes back to us with ideas once he's mulled it over.
So, yeah, it's awesome that you guys bring the heat and the passion because we love that.
So, yeah, I can't believe it's been 30 spaces.
Jesus, every time we have a space, I'm like, God damn, this is wild stuff. But yeah, awesome.
I think this is the longest pillar in Web3 of a blockchain foundation doing this with their community, man.
So congratulations on you guys. It's a two-way street.
Real quick, Jake, man, how's being a new daddy-o going?
Holy shit, it's crazy.
Yeah, it's amazing, man.
Anyone who's got a kid will know the first nine months, I think especially as a man.
Just really hot.
It comes out it's like
you gotta look after me now you're like whoa whoa my life is completely different but um yeah last
three months you know she just turned one recently now she's getting really fun and she's like just
playful and it's so nice like you actually get excited to go see her rather be like oh
bloody hell she's woken up again thank you so yeah love and love guys thank you flame
thank you yeah she's a she's a great chick when you're watching the market go down and then you
go and hang out with your baby like oh man this is what matters you know i mean like you can have
an emotional reaction you know as a person sitting on this account like obviously market conditions
suck i've lost a lot of money
um but those things ground you and i think that's to have something grounding
outside of money because you realize like what's important when you have that kind of thing so
yeah that's my piece of that i i have two kids and i saw something the other day which is
you know i have a five-year-old and a two-and-a-half is you know I'm a five-year-old and
a two-and-a-half-year-old and a five-year-old's a princess and a two-and-a-half-year-old I don't say
his name but something where someone said that you always think about all the time you had
before them and the freedom you had before them and everything that you used to do but you really
need to shift your focus and think about all the things that you're going to be doing with them
you know the new phase of your life you know and that's something i heard just two days ago and
it's really i'm going i'm going to a dj concert i'm 40 years old i'm going to a dj concert in
york city and i'm the 30th and i'm like yeah i can't wait to go and then i heard it's from eight
o'clock till two o'clock in the morning.
I'm like, there's no, there's no way I've been to make that.
Who do I think I am?
But, you know, going back to that point is, you know, I know during the hard times, because
there are hard times just, you know, embracing, you know, what this new life is and what it'll,
you know, lead to versus, you know, the good times that you had in the past and, and, and
loving those times and appreciating those times. Yeah, such wise words, man. it'll you know lead to first you know the good times that you had in the past and and and loving
those times and appreciating those times yeah such wise words man um don't mean to divert the space
but yeah that that is that you do lament you do mourn the loss i think maybe it's and more so
maybe as a male if i could be paint a broad stroke at least people i've spoken to you know
because it's like it comes out at you like the woman's pregnant she feels it she's got it growing all of a sudden the man's there like yeah you get bigger whatever things are changing
all of a sudden bang and it's like this imposition so yeah i totally agree but that's that's where
i've got to that's a really great point and that's definitely where i'm at mentally now it's like
i'm now enjoying my life with her and i look forward to what comes next and
yeah that's the magic of finalhood.
It turns you soft.
I'm right.
You're doing a great job, clearly.
So congratulations on it all.
Flame, I see your hand's still up.
Any final things you want to add?
Yeah, final thing is team, as Connor would say.
We need to find out Jake's baby's name and make the most epic meme coin ever out of it okay all right that's it
thank you guys have a great day oh god here we go and it'll be paired with a shrek image but anyway
jake seriously you're the best dude i can't thank you enough dude congratulations on managing all
of this while being a new father and doing it all right man i can't imagine how much it is to balance
um people are looking up to you
and people appreciate you taking the time to connect with us.
So let's continue this mission together.
I cannot wait for the next 30 spaces.
We covered so much today.
For those that somehow missed the first part
and are tuning in now, you're gonna wanna listen
because we covered the treasury report,
tons of updates with the plans for the next few years
around our finances, around our spend, tons of updates with the plans for the next few years around our
finances, around our spend, tons of updates around the Dow governance, new potential roles,
new navigator discussions, and then of course some fun updates around some of the DAAP progress that
has been going on and just a little bit of debate. So go enjoy it, listen back, contribute to the
discussion, get in those channels, and do not let the discussion end here.
We have to keep it going if we want to keep moving.
So it's got to be happening in these spaces that are in between us
in our next discussion to move this needle forward.
But team, I'm so thankful for all of you.
I cannot wait for the next 30 spaces together
and to reflect on how far we've come.
So wherever you are in the world,
keep having a great rest of your day, great rest of your morning, great rest of your evening.
Let's continue this momentum and we'll see you next time on the VeChain Monthly Update Space.
