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Vibing w Vechain : Node chat/Dao Chat/Vechain Renaissance
Recorded: June 30, 2025 Duration: 3:22:55Space Recording
Short Summary
The V-Chain community is buzzing with excitement as the Renaissance launch approaches, promising new token structures and enhanced functionalities. Discussions around grants, partnerships, and the need for improved user engagement highlight the ecosystem's growth potential, while concerns about declining token prices and community participation signal challenges ahead.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We'll be right back. Every single week we hope to educate and entertain So take it back and have some fun with us Get the word out, cause a ripple in effect
Just like some dominoes, an invitation
No matter the whole race, bring your fam
If you want a children, this is the place
Make some noise for the space
Bob I'm with V-Chain
Now make some noise for the team
Bob I'm with V-Chain
Make some noise for the space Bob I'm with V-Chain the team with me chain
space
the chain Well, well, well.
What's going on, folks?
Hang on one second.
There we go.
Tried something new just now. man what is oh i gotta turn down the phone
my bad folks technology you gotta love it trying uh trying some new stuff here because
every time i play the the theme song through the mixer it's all messed up so i tried playing it
through my other phone. And wow, that
base was pretty high. Hopefully I didn't scare the hell out of my neighbor downstairs. Hopefully he's
up and ready to go to work. I am done work and I am home and I am ready to hang out with a bunch of
badasses here to talk about X nodes, the V chain Renaissance.
And we're going to be joined by our good friend, Mr.
Jake from the foundation.
You see him.
He's already in there listening.
Good to see you, Jake.
Looking forward to getting you up here to talk.
We got a bunch of node holders going to be popping in, uh, talking about what we can
expect in the coming.
Well, day.
Well, this is a big, big move tomorrow.
The official launch.
So let's get some people up here.
You guys hit that request to come on up.
Wiz is a little bit late.
He's getting the kiddos to bed.
So we're going to get him up at the earliest convenience.
We got our man, Mr. Whittleman, coming up here.
Mr. Whittleman, good to see you, brother.
How's everything going?
Good.
What's up, Pauly?
Happy Monday.
Hello?
Can you not hear me?
Can you guys hear him?
Mr. Whittleman, you might want to cycle back.
I don't know if this is a you problem or a me problem.
Oh, boy.
Well, we got Breaking Balls coming up here.
Breaking Balls, can we hear you?
Yo, what's up, guys?
Oh, boy.
All right, you know what?
I can't hear him.
I'm going to have to refresh. Give me one second here. Okay.
Yo, yo, yo. Can you hear me?
Yo, yo, yo. Can you hear me?
You know what? It's my bad. It's the technology, and I got to change my settings.
Breaking balls, why don't you, I don't know, say something while I try to fix this.
All right. No pressure, no pressure. Hey, everyone hear me here?
What's up, everybody? Well, I guess I'll plug the end of the the step out with your balls out
challenge today is the official last day so make sure you're getting your last steps in uh seeing
a lot of people breaking breaking some records going over 700 000 steps for the month which i barely got the 450 and it was a struggle so whoever was able to
get past that cheers um anybody here who is in the challenge if you haven't seen my x post or
um me and the discord we will be announcing the winners on july 5th which which is Saturday, the stepper mod who's handling all is on vacation.
So he just needs time to verify all the folks and the numbers.
And then we're going to be doing a drawing per tier, as we discussed at the beginning of the contest.
And then we'll be announcing all those winners on X.
But wait for more details about how we're going to be doing that.
Fantastic. And I can hear you now. I made my adjustments. We're good to go.
Thankfully we are because we got a nice filling. We are rooms filling up here, Jake.
We got about 40 people popping in here to check it out.
And I think this is definitely one people didn't want to miss.
Let's get to you, Jake, and then we'll go to Mr. Whittleman.
Jake, happy Monday. Good to see you.
I can imagine you got a lot of free time on your hands these days.
So really, I'm thankful you could spend that open time with us.
And also, it's a crazy time, but good to have you on, man.
Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, I mean, it's been mad, obviously, work, baby life, juggling personal stuff, you know.
So it's been a fun learning experience, if you could call it that.
Obviously, we went to Japan.
That was amazing.
Japan's amazing.
Everyone kind of has this thing in their head about Japan is super expensive.
It's surprisingly not.
If you can get there, like the food is really cheap, accommodations aren't that bad.
I definitely recommend putting Japan on the bucket list list it's beautiful country amazing people bit too hot for
my ginger british disposition gotta be honest like the humidity was uh killing me had a bit of a dizzy
spell one day i'm like oh yeah i should drink water that makes that makes sense but yeah other
than that amazing the baby she was great on the way out absolute terror
on the way back so that was fun like six hours of basically screaming like all the rows around me
you can tell i get a bit antsy and you're like i'm sorry i hate this as much as you but um
i was like in japan what the heck let's go back i know i know and then i've come back to england
and it's like a heat wave in Europe at the moment
so that's been fun
absolutely boiling I live in a boat
so it's a steel tube
you know so that's been fun
trying to survive back in Britain
but I mean me aside
obviously super busy times
at VChain very exciting times
with the community at large I see loads of stuff
going on so yeah it's tough to keep a tab on everything man is is so much going on
oh it sure is yeah absolutely and just real quick that the japan thing i i think it's like anywhere
right depends where you go when you visit a country you know it can be the the price range
can be very different depending on where you go
and what you do you know when you travel so i'm sure and certain time of year yeah oh for sure
yeah location time of year that's that's all a factor but it's good it's awesome that you
enjoyed yourself it seems like it was a really productive trip for for you and and everyone
that went and to be able to bring the little one along I'm sure was a really cool thing
So having said that
The trip home with them crying
It's never fun
But glad to have you back
And just in time for us to talk
Some pretty wild stuff
Wild changes we got going on
And one of the men who
Well he's always a big part of getting these things together
That's our man Mr. Whittleman, the dog scooper himself, the poop scoop guy.
Mr. Whittleman, good to see you, brother.
How's everything going?
Good.
Can you hear me now, Pauly?
I sure can.
My apologies for messing.
I had the same issue with a call I had last night.
I couldn't hear anything, so I had to do some.
But we're good now.
We're good.
I mean, I'm glad we didn't have to restart the space.
But yeah, happy Monday to everybody.
What's up, Jake?
Good to see you.
Yeah, Japan looked awesome.
Just seeing all V-Chain Foundations posts about it and stuff.
I've only been to Tokyo once in March, and it was a lot more bearable weather-wise than
probably during the summer, I would imagine.
But yeah, just, you know, we wanted to do a node space before the Renaissance kicks off tomorrow. And so Breaking Balls and myself have been kind of rallying the troops, so to speak,
getting the word out to our Xnode Telegram group and, you know, any other node holders that are
kind of lurking around on Reddit or wherever they are, just to kind of come and get all the information that they need, because there are some big changes
happening. So I just want to make sure everyone's well informed what to do, you know, I think
leading up to the Renaissance, everyone's been asking, like, what do I do, you know, and the
MO has just been like, wait till July 1st to get more information. And so I think everyone's just waiting with bated breath to kick this thing off.
So I'll leave it there.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and, uh, oh, no, a whiz just popped up.
There we go.
Whiz joining the co-host spot.
Uh, our fellow, uh, bloke from across the pond joining the chat.
Whiz, good to see you, brother.
How's everything going?
How's the baby? Good evening yeah it's uh very hot here but uh shouldn't be complaining about that really but uh yeah typical typical brits struggle when
any adverse weather anything beyond like 17 degrees and a bit gray we're like oh what the hell is this yeah probably we've got a
victorian house as well so in the daytime it heats up the bricks heat up and then just throughout the
night it just gets hotter and hotter so as you think it should be getting cooler our house just
seems to get hotter and hotter but uh i'm currently in the kitchen chilling out now And ready to chat to everybody Fantastic
Go ahead, Jake
Oh, I'm just into ad-libbing
I said, noice
And that was all
Noice, I like it
Hell yeah
Well, a shout out to everybody that's down in the room again
Feel free, as always
When we're talking through this
If you want to come and join the chat
By all means, hit that request button.
Come on up. If I think you're doing any shenanigans, I am not sure.
I have no shame. I will boot you the hell out of here.
So let's make sure we're keeping this on point and constructive.
I'm not, I think the room deserves to have some good conversation here.
So just a fair warning. I warning, I will boot if need be
Having said that, we always give people the opportunity
If they have legitimate questions to come up
Ask them if they're tough
Hey, awesome, let's get to the bottom of it
And make sure we all are informed about what we can expect
In the next, what, 12 hours?
12 to whatever hours it is now
so let's just get right into it uh jake so i know i know we got a space tomorrow correct um we can
we might have plugged that at uh while we get started here uh what can you tell us about the
space tomorrow well we'll have the big man s lou in the house and we're going to be joined by
rosa simioli and Dan Rushneck,
so they're two of the lead devs working on the Stargate stuff.
So, you know, obviously you want to celebrate the launch, hop into a space with everyone, open the floor to questions.
No doubt, you know, of course, people are going to be curious about how and what and where and why.
And so, yeah, we'll be there to offer some guidance and just generally, you know, have a chat with people, share some information, all that good stuff.
You know, nice and friendly vibes.
But, yeah, just a chance to kind of, I guess, reflect, celebrate, look ahead, share experiences and ask questions if needed.
I know a lot of people have a lot of questions out there.
We've been hearing it for weeks
Always
When does it start?
Do I stake my node now?
Or when do I go?
We got our man Mr. Whittleman
He's got his hand up
We might as well just let this guy get this thing kicked off
The node representative extraordinaire
Mr. Whittleman
Where's your head at as we get this combo going? Yeah, I think a good place to start the node representative extraordinaire, Mr. Whittleman.
Where's your head at as we get this combo going?
Yeah, I think a good place to start since, Jake, you're here.
We had an X node who I think missed the communication about the June 24th cutoff for upgrading their X node, right?
Because I think they had like a small X node
and had enough to upgrade and I think
eight small X nodes
eight, okay, sorry, eight small
X nodes
so long time holder, he's been there since
the very beginning and I think
he was a little frustrated because
he missed the communication of
June 24th, which, you know, I think
got maybe kind of buried with all with everything else kind of going on.
And so he just wanted to reach out.
I don't know if he has yet, but just about if it really is where he cannot upgrade his Xnode at this time.
Because I also went on VeChain stats to where you go to the node page.
VChain stats to where you go to the node page.
And it seems like there's some X node upgrades that have just been upgraded over the last three days.
And so my question, yeah.
And my question is, is like, are those going through?
And are they allowed to upgrade or are those not going through?
So just wanted to kind of get some clarification for for that person and just kind of
that whole thing because i know that i think initially it was july 1st and it changed to
june 24th and if you can just speak to to that if you can uh yeah i mean i'm surprised to hear that
because i mean as i understood it the contract wasn't active after the 24th so uh with paul i
we had to exchange messages about that feature and function.
So I wasn't aware that was possible. I didn't think it was, to be honest. So yeah, I'm not sure
about that. Any next nodes that would have triggered before the date, they could obviously
play out the upgrade. But I mean, as I understood it, that shouldn't be possible. But if you're
telling me otherwise, that's interesting.
Yeah, I guess the confusion was just because there was like a Medium article that said till July 1st.
And then all the communication for June 24th was really just like the end of an X post, which is, you know, obviously we're a lot of us are in this Xnode telegram.
But there's a lot of other Xnodes out there that aren't, you know, dialed in lot of us are in this x note telegram but there's a lot of other x
notes out there that aren't you know dialed in as much as we are um so they look for the official
publications so i don't yeah i mean he's pretty bummed just because he's got enough for thunder
um and now he's gonna be you know like if you look at all the rewards that he's gonna get from
even if he staked all those vthor xs, he's not even going to come close.
So he did submit a ticket.
I don't know if he's actually on this chat.
Maybe he can come up later and just see if there's possible at least someone could see his ticket.
If there's anything that could be done would be, I mean, all that we could ask, I guess.
Yeah, I mean, I can certainly route internally, but I think to be honest, it's been deprecated as far as I understand.
So I doubt this could be much, unfortunately.
I mean, when we unveiled the details about the Xnode program,
it was kind of stated that when we migrated,
those were the definitive numbers of Xnodes.
That would then be on the other side. So it's kind of been in the ether for a couple of months about this,
uh, hardcore ultimate deadline, but yeah, I'm sorry.
I mean, it's unfortunate about, about your, um, about this guy. I mean,
uh, yeah. Yeah. And that, that, yeah. I mean, obviously like, you know,
some people just aren't, uh, keeping their ear to the ground as much.
This person was just on Reddit and then has now joined our Xnode Telegram group and just kind of has been sharing his conundrum.
But that's just where seeing it on the VeChain stats page where over the last three days, it seems like some nodes have upgraded.
So just seeing if like, oh is is that still a possibility
and just getting um clarity around there because if it is if for whatever reason it's not working
as it should then maybe he does have an opportunity to upgrade you know i don't know i mean based on
my measures with paul that was deactivated so yeah i don't know and obviously as a representative i
can't say try it i don't want to encourage
anyone to potentially right do something that yeah absolutely yeah well absolutely and even
more so like the people that are in the middle of this upgrade like if they started late could
there be any bad ramifications from it like no no no okay sorry as long as it's triggered before
the deadline everything will play out as normal yeah and the thing i told him is that you know because he does he does hold x nodes it would
just be like oh you know he could sell you know his new nft node um node nfts right and then try
to basically buy the thunder x1 on the on the market right exactly so so yeah so that's just
sort of what i pointed him into that
direction but just thought i'd start there i know it's a little bit of a tricky question or whatever
but i just thought i'd put that out there just to see if you had any clarity but if you do see
some ticket i'll try to also maybe um get his get his information and maybe offline you jake or
something absolutely yeah please do okay i'll have a word with Paul as well.
Cool. But yeah, I mean, yeah, this is an exciting time. Like it's a huge change, I feel for the chain, right? This, the tokenomics change. And, you know, I think some people
in our node chat have been wondering about, and let's just go ahead and set the record straight
this idea that x nodes when you're migrating you're going to be staking the vet that goes
into that x node plus the x node nft or the x node nft will be burnt but then you'll receive back
the new x node nft is that correct that is correct yeah so you stake the collateral you get the the nft which
represents the collateral so it's almost a receipt it's an nft that is representative of all of it
at that point and is that original x node nft burnt or is it also like withheld in that contract
no the original node is is no more after that point. Got it. And then the second question that has come up is that
it is true that once you receive that new node NFT, that if you unstake your NFT at any point,
it will destroy that X node, correct? Yeah. So the exit process of staking is whichever node
you have, X or economic, the unstaking process destroys the node because the collateral is removed from the token.
So it's kind of like going one below 600,000 in this current version in that sense that there's that burn mechanic.
So to unstake is to essentially remove the collateral from the node.
the collateral from the node right yeah so i've i've tried to explain it to people where it's
very much similar to how you hold your vet now in your v world wallet except now you're holding
your vet in a smart contract so once you remove that you know vet out of that smart contract it's
the same as like breaking your node exactly but you you this is an important segue as well because
people need to understand that the the represents the VET stake as well.
So like, whereas before you might sell a node for a few thousand dollars and then that node is gone and you keep the VET in this version, like the node represents the collateral as well.
So just want to warn people against, you know, potentially underselling the value of their VET, because unfortunately, unfortunately, obviously, we want to warn people as much as possible
when there are things in place to warn people.
And we'll communicate around it.
We've actually got a post lined up just to really emphasize this tomorrow.
But yeah.
Oh, yeah.
No, that's a great point.
Because I think right now when you sell Xnode, you're selling just the token.
And so that's selling for, I don't know, 100,000 to 200,000 bet.
But now if you're selling the new Node NFT, it's going to be that plus the amount of that within that node, correct?
Exactly.
And obviously, if you have it.
Sorry, go on.
Oh, so I was just going to follow up and ask, are there any safeguards that VeChain is putting in place?
Because I know this happens similarly with the old Xnodes, right, where people were selling the Xnode tokens for that amount of the 1.6 million VET and then come to find out, you know, they didn't need that.
So like, are there any are there going to be any safeguards or maybe VeChain can think about some safeguards if people aren't making similar mistakes i mean there's there's warning messages i mean beyond
someone clicking and and just bulldozing ahead you know i mean after after that point it's hard
to stop someone obviously education is key communication is key um so yeah we will
definitely have advisory stuff in there and we'll advise people very, like, obviously tomorrow with a post got lined up.
But yeah, unfortunately, it's some people still fall through the cracks.
Like you say, a lot of people have been in VGN a long time.
A lot of them are kind of disengaged.
You know, they've got their bags.
They just put them to one side and they're getting on with their lives now.
Could you set the minimum price for each node at that amount?
Like, would that sort of prevent people
from self from underselling it if that makes sense like if i have a strength x node right
then within that new nft it's like baseline 1.6 million vet so like if i want to go sell that on
the open market is there a way to just like keep it so that baseline i can only sell it for at the
minimum 1.6?
I don't know that specifically myself right now,
but tomorrow we'll have Rosa and Dan up,
and they will be the people to ask.
So if you are available tomorrow, I recommend asking them,
because they can tell you the specifics.
Obviously, they built the platform.
Whether it's possible, potentially,
but I mean, I don't want to speak out of line.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, breaking too, I see. You want to speak out of line sure yeah yeah uh yeah breaking too i see uh you want to
jump in here yeah uh just another analogy for this staking thing so it's like going to vegas
giving 600 i have a v3x giving my 600 000 vet to you know the the um the front desk and then giving
me this fat chip that is a 600,000 VET chip.
And then I could just take that and then put it to whatever game I want
to get whatever validator I want.
But once I bring that chip back to the desk and I get my VET back,
then that chip is gone.
And I won't be able to get that next node chip ever again.
Exactly.
And obviously with economic nodes, you can regenerate.
Yeah. It won't be as shiny. It won't be as shiny. Okay. I did have a technical question for you,
but I'm sure I can ask it tomorrow. Me and Mr. Wittleman was talking about this too. A lot of
XNodes we have, as far as combining, the DAO is very much present and we're very much intermingled with it.
Right now, my node is delegated to a separate wallet, so I could do all my voting and all that separate stuff that way.
Do you know if I will have to undelegate it back to where my wallet is now, like my regular Xnode wallet, before I can do the burn?
Or do you know anything about that by chance?
That is a very good question.
I know that we have delegation features
for the Stargate program.
So you can have your node containing the NFT
safely tucked away
and then delegate powers to another address
in a similar way whether
you have to use a different wallet that's a good question i actually don't have the answer i'm sorry
but they will have delegation features um for the for the nfts for the stargate okay great yeah
because yeah obviously with the x knows depending on what level, we qualify for the GM NFT.
So it's like it's just a matter of, yeah,
where will that be recognized to make sure that that's still kind of happening and, you know, the endorsement points and all that jazz.
So, okay, cool.
We'll ask tomorrow.
Yeah.
Definitely the guys on the code are the ones with the key.
I mean, I've got the high-level key topics, but tech-wise, I apologize.
I failed you.
We got a little bit.
Vinit has come to save me.
Mr. Vinit.
Talk about it.
Hey, guys.
Hey, guys.
Happy Monday, Vinit.
Good to see you, man.
Nice to have you back since we got to talk a few weeks ago.
Any thoughts jumping in on this?
Sounds like you might, maybe you have a little answer.
Yeah, I just wanted to come up and say, yeah, so on better side, you don't have to do anything.
All the contract and the migration of the nodes will automatically be taken care of.
So no action needed on the better side for X nodes or the correct nodes.
That's great so if if we're
already delegating our node to like let's say our dow wallet and we upgrade um for via renaissance
that we don't have to do anything like we'll still have our gm nft all that should be kind of
seamless on the back end is that correct yes yes yes yes, yes, yes. Awesome. Thanks for that clarity. That's good to know.
We can definitely share and spread that message. Yeah. And you will, like, people will have the
similar kind of functionality in the Stargate platform as well. So you don't need to connect
your ledger every time you need to claim your rewards. You can assign a manager or a delegatee,
if you will, and that delegate delegate again claim rewards on behalf of
your ledger and the rewards will go to your ledger so that way it becomes like an operational thing
uh do you mind if i ask one more question while you're up here veneet and i know there's a couple
other hands but i just wanted while you're up here sure sure sure sure so now that basically this nft
is sort of representative of like a lot of stake, right?
So like, you know, especially for X nodes, like we have some people that are Molnir nodes, Molnir Xs, right?
Which is like 15.6 million VET, Thunder X nodes are 5.6 million VET.
So everything is like on this NFT, like are, and I'm assuming you can move around that NFT.
Like I could just send it to another wallet if i wanted to um are there any security concerns or like like you know just because just
it seems kind of not i don't think vulnerable is the right word but fragile maybe just the fact
that you know um my wallet could get hacked and that nft now gets sent off or whatever like i'm
just wondering like what security concerns are there you an NFT that's holding so much value within it?
What are some best practices or ways that we can be sure that we keep that NFT safe?
Yeah, good question.
I think the number one is use a hardware wallet.
I think that's a no brainer.
And that is the reason I was mentioning the manager concept.
So in your target platform, you can basically assign a manager for your NFT,
which can do your daily operational needs of, you know, claiming the rewards
and things like that so that you don't have to connect your ledger every time
you have to interact with let's say a Stargate platform the other side of like sending and
receiving especially if you want to sell things I think a little bit of work needs to be done on the
marketplaces as well because they need to recognize that this is a special NFT and
they can set the price.
So NFT is a standalone thing, but the auction contracts, which marketplaces control, they
set the base price.
So I think that's a little bit on World of V. We will have our own marketplace, which
will do that to safeguard that as well.
So yeah, use the manager feature in the
target platform use a hardware wallet and we are talking we will talk with world of e as well so
that we make sure that you know uh people don't sell for the let's say less than their collateral
the nft uh and then your warning messages on the platform so those are the few things we are taking care of plus uh
like messages on x and education kind of things that's great so so you are kind of confirming that um you you're able to kind of set like a minimum price for those new node nfps so people
aren't going to sell them uh we won't be marketplaces will be so so there's a difference yeah yeah so we won't be but
marketplaces will have that feature uh so i just need to confirm with world of p but in future
like very soon there will be dedicated marketplace for stargate as well so we will take care of that
as well but yeah i think so basically the stargate marketplace plus like
other marketplaces like world of v have that option to to set that like minimum threshold
to prevent bad things from happening okay great yes yes yeah
awesome well and i want to open this up oh man this this could go really well or really bad
uh but i'm an optimistic guy.
You know, we got our man John up here. John, a bunch of numbers.
I'm really hopeful it's a node holder that's coming for the first time.
Let's give it a shot. John, welcome to the stage. How are you doing on this Monday?
Hey, not too bad, thanks. um real person so hopefully all good um i'm actually
that guy the the the old um the old x note holder with with enough um vet for a thunder note i was
just wondering just to pick up to see whether there might be a chance to have a chat about this
the reason i'm asking is because um as was mentioned earlier, I was following all the formal communications via Medium, right,
where it did say, and I quote, you know,
secure your ideal X node tier before the 1 July deadline
to maximise your rewards.
And then I'm not on Twitter for various reasons,
including the spam, et cetera.
And, you know, you might be able to understand
it's incredibly frustrating where there are these random tweets, including a few lines at the bottom of a random tweet saying, hey,
by the way, there's this new deadline. If you don't comply with that, you'll miss out. It's
almost like the IRS, right? Tax office sending out formal letters. You've got 31 until 31 December
to file your tax return. And then the IRS, in addition to the formal letters saying 31 December,
randomly puts out a tweet one day saying, hey, you're going to jail if you don't file by 30 days before that,
actually, the 1st of December.
It just feels, it's frustrating, yes.
I was just wondering, is there anyone or any scope
to have a discussion about this?
Because you think you're doing the right thing
and you get burnt because you're not following, you know,
an account that sends out five tweets a day sort of thing.
It's just, it's really frustrating for an OG holder from seven years ago is all.
Yeah, I don't know, Benit, if you have anything, or Jake, that you guys could share with John?
I mean, as I understand it, the contracts are no more.
So, I mean, you know, we put out communications in march around the the
finite cap and the fact you know once we migrate that's it that's the cap limit um whatever is
transferred so you know i mean i i do apologize uh obviously you didn't manage to see the article i
mean yeah i i don't really have much that I can offer in the way of redemption there.
I mean, unfortunately, I think the services have been taken offline,
so I don't think it's going to be possible.
Okay.
So then is the conclusion for me then, you know,
despite following all the formal communications,
I didn't follow random tweets and that's it?
Maybe that is the logical conclusion I'm understanding
from what you're saying, but it just...
No, it wasn't.
For a project aiming for legitimacy, it feels really off, yeah?
It defeats the purpose of having the Medium account
with thousands of words of publications.
We've been communicating on this since the start of the year.
We've got the article I'm looking at now, March 5th,
where we communicated about the cut-offs. i mean if you know that was three months ago i mean was there
any reason you're waiting for like the last week well jake was that um was that communication
though in march did it mention the june 24th cutoff because i think what john's point was i
think that it seemed like the communication was kind of everything was around July 1st.
And then I think like within the last, I don't know when the June 24th date got mentioned, but that was kind of a more recent development, it felt like.
And so that's just where I think there's there were some like miscommunication or just wasn't communicated that new date of june 24th um that was where
you know having talked to john or just like you know seeing it where it's just like i do feel
like maybe the june 24th like change kind of got buried or just not communicated through like
appropriate channels so that everyone became aware of it. Where July 1st date, absolutely.
Everyone's been telling everyone wait to July 1st.
John, maybe you could have upgraded your node knowing that July 1st was coming, but I do agree with you where I think the June 24th cutoff date seemed like it was a more recent
or newer development.
I could be wrong, but that was my kind of understanding of it as well.
No, I mean, yeah, maybe it should have been communicated
more clearly in that regard.
I mean, in our minds, obviously, we've been talking about
the new Node program for months with this cap in mind
to, like, galvanize users.
I mean, normally you see a flurry of activity
when the media comes out because people like oh
you know i better move um so i mean yeah it's it's a it's an unfortunate thing that's unfolded john
i don't know what to say i apologize yeah well you know john i don't know if you're here in the
space when i was talking about um the beaching stats page, because I did notice some X nodes look like they have upgraded,
but to what Jake is talking about,
it seems like that shouldn't be possible.
Because I was like, oh, maybe there's a chance you could still upgrade, right?
But yeah, I think your best course of action at this point
would be basically like getting your new Xnode NFTs.
You can maybe then sell some of those and try to see if there's like a higher Xnode NFT available
on the open market that you could do it that way, which obviously is not ideal, but that's just like,
I'm a problem solver. So I'm just trying to think of how you could get to where you want to be.
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Thanks very much. I won't take up any more time.
But I will just say, Jake, I hear what you're saying about, you know, talking about it for months. But just to reiterate, right, that was always communication about one July, maybe two
weeks, you brought it, you brought ahead the deadline. And, you know, that that's all well
and good. But it is pretty disappointing. I know you might have some kind of rationale,
but you switched the deadline randomly two weeks despite your formal communication saying 1 July.
And it is what it is, but it's a disappointing response at least.
So that's my two cents. Thanks.
Yeah, this is tough.
This is the tough part of Web3, guys.
There's a lot of stuff going on and a lot of things. It's very difficult for all of us to be keeping up with everything and knowing that the right people know what's going on. um it's this is a tricky one and that sucks for john um you know i i it's one of those where
you just kind of throw your hands up and you're like what the hell do we even do
um it's um that's a tough one you know i but it sounds like what that v jake there's not even a
way to do it anymore because the contract that was used to actually do that is no longer even
functioning is that is that what i'm hearing well certainly not through the rewards program
uh i know that much so i mean i can't encourage any thing because you know i'm on this account but
i don't know it seems like there are nodes somehow being upgraded so i don't know i'll leave that to
you yeah well so what what I say is, John,
since you're in the XNode Telegram group,
I'll reach out to you
because there could be a small chance
where because it does look like
there are some nodes that are still upgrading.
And what Jake says,
like he can't officially tell you the case
because he's on the official VChain account
and wouldn't want you to do anything
that isn't true, right?
But there might be a small chance, right? So let, let us kind of do some more digging, uh, for you just to see if it's possible. Um, so yeah, that I think, I think we can just kind of leave it there.
at a shot working together right trying to figure out is there a chance uh there's no no need to
say the sky's falling until you you check every potential and uh see see if uh there's uh a little
wrinkle you never know you never know if there's a possibility um but john wishing you good luck
and all that i can tell obviously that's a disappointing thing and um not a not a great not a great moment but
um that's kind of unfortunately that's kind of how this is right we all we it feels like every
time something happens we hear a story about someone um in a similar sort of uh situation
and it's always you know unfortunate disheartening and you you you, you feel for them. Um, it's, it's just kind of the environment we're in, unfortunately, but, um, hopefully
John figures that out and, uh, he can, uh, he can get all tight.
Maybe he can get all types of notes.
Who knows?
He could be doing very well, uh, next six months.
We'll see.
Um, again, I want to throw it open.
Any of you guys that want to come up, if you have a question, a comment, anything
about this feel free to come
and join the chat
Mr. Whittleman and Breaking Ball is always good at keeping
Jake busy but it's nice to
get more
perspectives and questions on the
table from people out there
we got a nice packed room so appreciate
that if you can like and retweet
the space I'll even pin it up on the Jumbotron here.
That'd be fantastic.
Yeah, it's great.
Breaking balls, Mr. Whittleman, you know, anything, any other ones you want to go ahead?
Well, I just wanted to kind of reiterate where I know that this is kind of for Jake for communication is just like I know
Twitter is kind of like an important platform for V chains where you guys you know have the
account where you're writing the articles on Twitter and stuff but that's just where because
not not a lot of people use where I know a lot a lot of people do but a lot of people don't so
just like maybe those other official communication channels, like I know Medium is a really good form for that, just, you know, to not neglect those
other forms of communication, just to kind of help spread the word as much as possible. Especially,
I think, you know, obviously, whenever there's changes or anything, like, I remember with the
initial XNode program, there's always stuff that happens, right?
There's, you know, we've been in here for seven plus years where we've seen Xnodes drop under the threshold and get their Xnodes burnt.
Like, this is just, unfortunately, what happens.
And every time there's a big change, there's always going to be things like this that happen.
The good news is that, you know, this, John hasn't like lost any of his X
nodes or anything, right? Just sort of, he wanted to upgrade and waited a long time to upgrade and
then the date changed and, and, you know, it is what it is. But yeah, just talking about, you know,
like, what is your sense of like, communication? Like is, is V chain kindain putting out its communication
mostly through the Twitter articles now
or is that also being regurgitated
into other things like Medium
and such? Yeah, we do use Medium
as well. We cross-post
to X and Medium
because X just prefers everything native.
We do it on X for the algorithm.
If you link off-site, you get punished.
It goes on X and then goes to medium um and definitely could be potential for additional
platforms i mean medium is probably the next most biggest relevant uh blog site so i mean for now that's i mean that's always been the home of our media anyway uh back from 2017 some ancient articles if you want to dig through the archives and then
obviously we we use um instagram which is growing up pretty quick actually now but
there's generally a different style of content as you guys probably all aware like it's not
necessarily i mean we do some informative stuff but yeah we just hit 20k the other day we only
started the account like two years ago so it's for a year ago it's kind of snowballing obviously with the help of dana in particular um tiktok linkedin but again you you kind of have different content for
different platforms so like you wouldn't necessarily post a node explanation thread to
linkedin for example um and then obviously people post stuff to reddit which is a good
kind of conversational forum as well
it is a massive challengeational forum as well.
It is a massive challenge.
We have so many people all across the world.
It's really hard to reach people. And obviously in the decentralized pseudonymous wallet addresses,
we need some decentralized communication channels
that can just somehow transaction a message to a node
and then somehow say it. I don't even know how that would work but it is yeah communications is
definitely a challenge on this yeah I mean I got the um notifications on v world now
yes very true very true how many people got those on yeah yeah I mean i do think that is a good opportunity there to also for for really
important messages to get across right with that new notification system in view world which is
pretty cool so i i know it's kind of like more nascent like kind of a newer development but
you know i i really feel like you guys could really utilize that for like really important like announcements in the future.
Oh, cool. Yeah.
I have some more followup here, Pauly, for, um,
go talking about, uh, Renaissance and, and tomorrow.
Yeah. Well, Hey, can we, cause we got, uh, someone that came up real quick, so I want to get to type dangerous,
but I wanted to mention in the comments uh danny tw855 said what you see in v chain stats is x nodes being upgraded after
the maturity period so the upgrade started 30 60 or 90 days before uh i'm not sure if that's true
uh but apparently danny is saying that what uh what you might be seeing is actually nodes that were already upgraded and are now matured.
Does that sound like it would make sense to everybody here?
Or is that just someone blowing smoke?
No, that was my thinking as well.
I'm checking with the team.
But yeah, upgrade in the last one day to initiate an upgrade is not possible.
You cannot do it.
So it has to be that.
But I'm just double confirming with the team.
So give me a few minutes.
Yeah, yeah.
Just raise your hand if you got an update for us, Vanit.
And if there is a way for John to upgrade his next node,
please let me know
unfortunately unfortunately that's fun uh and i think that comment in the
is correct uh it's just i'll confirm i'll confirm okay sounds good appreciate you vanit let's get
to uh type dangerous here lord fray 19 seeing you bounce around the socials
finally got a chance to have you come up and join the chat happy monday how's everything going
hey polly this is really black wealth i just i just changed the name but nice to
nice to hear hear from you well first good to see you man long time no talk how's everything going
it's going good uh thank you for having me up. I'm highly interested in, one, thank you to the speakers on the panel.
I'm very excited for the renaissance, but I really want to, I guess, gain a little bit more clarity as I'm interested in, like, getting an economic note.
So, like, where do I, so, like, like tomorrow where can i find that um and can you
kind of walk through us that um process please thank you yeah sure so tomorrow we will launch
uh the stargate platform which is its own you know ecosystem kind of environment uh basically
assume you have the vet collateral that you, obviously, we're introducing the new economic node tiers as well tomorrow.
So I don't know how much VET you have.
But basically, when you log in tomorrow, you'll be able to mint the new NFT.
There will be a maturity period, which differs by tier.
I think the smallest node, the DAWN node, is two days.
and yeah they all go up from there
And yeah, they all go up from there.
and then basically after the maturity period's ended
you'll be able to have that NFT basically generate rewards for you
if you have an existing node then your maturity period is waived
so Xnodes economic nodes that already own one
that maturity, that kind of wait period will be waived straight away
so you'll be able to go tomorrow, transfer, you know, get the new tokens
and then get the new kind of rewards straight away.
So all will be explained on the site.
We actually did a Renaissance live a couple of weeks ago in Japan
where we kind of demoed the UI.
So there is some media out there if you want to hop on our YouTube
or dive a bit back through X where you can basically get a bit of a rundown of how it works from rosa who's been um having built the stargate
platform and she she kind of does a little uh like verbal walkthrough but yeah essentially
tomorrow you're logging with your wallet you'll be presented with the options and then you begin
your maturity period and it's pretty it's pretty straightforward that you know the team's very conscious of usability and ease of uh of access so it'll be very straightforward keep an
eye on our socials around midday uk time zone you know european time zones will be dropping the prs
the socials the links um and then so yeah us team you'll be waking up to the links already there
unless you're an early
riser in which case you'll catch them eu time and now you can just get cracking so x nodes economic
nodes you'll be you know straight through the gate um but everyone else who is minting an economic
node will have maturity periods and like i say they range based on um what kind of node you're
you're developing basically.
Right.
And just for clarity, real quick,
before we go back to Blackwell first,
for those of us noobs,
us node noobs who don't know how this works, right?
You go in, let's say I want to go and mint
one of these Dawn nodes, right?
It's 10,000 VET.
So is the 10,000 VET like you pay for it and then you also need to have that VET when you have it?
Or is the 10K VET sort of like, hey, I'm about to hold this and now I get the NFT and I lose it if I lose that 10K VET.
Could you just give a little break through how that works?
how that works no that would be cruel i think um no so you stake the the vt and then you will
receive the delegate delegate economic nft which represents that stake so your 10k vet you stake it
you get the nft that represents the 10k you don't need another 10k like you have the nft at that
point that nft now represents as well as the rewards uh that it generates it represents the
10k so if you want the 10k back you can burn the node pull the pull the um vt out uh but yeah no
it's just an initial like bit of collateral you know you don't have to pay twice okay thank you
for that clarification go ahead blackwell first no thank you probably because i was actually thinking about that question too about with the whole 10k but uh just another thing now when you get the
node do you have so like for an economic node do you have to um i might have the wrong terminology
do you have to stake it or delegate it to one of the one to one of the one of the 101 delegators or no
that is a great question i can tell you we're doing your reading so now currently no because
basically that delegated validator the function that you're referring to that doesn't actually
become live until uh it hits mainnet so hayab, which is this phase two of V-Chain Renaissance, which
the Stargate is part of, that's being built, right? So Testnet will go live in September,
and then mainnet will be December. So when December hits, that's when you'll have to
delegate to a validator. And then there will be this list of 101 validators that some might be offering
different apys different benefits different incentives like they're all vying for your
stake essentially and then it becomes a bit more like what people might be used to on other
um net pay for state networks where you have a you know basically a different node may offer
a different reward to kind of incentivize people to to. But for now, no, you have the node, you'll basically get the rewards.
There'll be a claim button, you can hit claim after a certain time frame, and then you just
get the rewards at this point.
And obviously, we've got that big early bird staking reward that's going to be baked into
that as well.
So there'll be 5.48 billion vifo that's kind of boosting the
scheme for the next six months as well thank you no worries is that um is those early bird rewards
uh jake or is that basically the x node 5 billion bet reward pool that's being kind of used for the
early board rewards that is basically all the vifo foundation has and actually
sonny is shy about it but he's he's actually put some of his own money towards boosting it as well
he wanted to make a an attractive oh got it yeah okay it's basically all the fit all the
vifo foundation has had is putting into this program to uh you know to well boost it basically so obviously
first of july the xnode program is current inspiration that pool is uh you know no more
and you can claim you have months to claim fyi you can still claim up to like october any existing
legacy rewards um but yeah from from the first it's like a different structure
um okay got it so that's basically all the the veto that the foundation has is kind of going
into this early bird reward program um i'm guessing that that five billion vet that was
the xnode reward pool that was generating veto that's now the foundations and the foundations
you know keeping
it or selling it or doing whatever they want with it essentially right yeah so that comes back into
the fray but obviously the the upgrades we're doing to the tokenomics and whatnot will yield a much
better kind of reward structure for x nodes and you know in this current climate one benefit of
having that pool where you know there's a lot of institutional clients that want to get in and support and build and integrate.
It's a very critical time, actually, particularly with the US now really signaling like, OK, this is it.
We're making this a proper market.
Obviously, you've got the market structures built going through at the moment, Genius Act underway.
There's definitely a list of institutions I'm aware of that are becoming validators. They
want to get involved. They want to take a stake. They love what we're doing. Some want to build
products. So it's like, obviously, sometimes there may be OTC opportunities and stuff like that.
And so it's serving an expansionary purpose, let's say.
So it's serving an expansionary purpose, let's say.
Nice.
A quick question I had for you too, Jake,
was just someone asked in our Xnode chat is,
I don't know if you can speak to this,
but do you know what happens to Xnodes
that don't upgrade to the new system?
Is there something that happens to those original Xnode tokens?
Are they going to get wiped out eventually?
What happens to those XNodes that do not switch to the new system?
I mean, Vinny, correct me if I'm wrong,
but I don't think anything would happen
because at the end of the day, that's a self-custody token.
So nothing could be done externally to it,
but just won't be eligible for the new rewards mechanic.
Got it.
I think we will do a communication around this as well.
Basically, like after three or four months, if you don't upgrade, then we will kill that mode. So then basically the whole contract system is gone.
But for the next four or five months months if you wake up and you see
this all the communications you should be able to migrate following following july 1st
there won't be any rewards for the old nodes right so right at that point you are just
holding it because you have not seen the communication so there is no incentive to keep the whole node,
but we will keep the system running for three, four months.
We are monitoring.
Basically, we want to see any migrations from the old system to new ones.
And at some point, we will have to draw the line that, okay.
Okay. Yeah.
I would just say just because with the just make sure that communication,
because, you know, if it is where there's going to be a sun setting or time where old X nodes will not be able to migrate to the new system, like just making sure that that is like very well communicated.
And also to like, I don't know if that's where like three to four months, like maybe think, I mean, you'll be able to see the stats, you'll be
able to see how many are migrating, but potentially, like, I could see it where, you know, maybe give
people to the end of the year, at least, or something, you know, that's just kind of my
personal opinion. But I guess you guys can kind of monitor the migration.
Definitely, definitely. And yeah, like, look, what happened with John is a little bit unfortunate, but there is
no intention of rugging people here like us.
So it's just getting rid of the managing six, seven year old system is tricky, the way it
was built.
So we want to just get rid of it.
But we are, yeah, as you said, like we will monitor the migration rate. And if,
you know, we will give enough ample time and but at some stage, we will have to draw the line
because at some stage, we need to just shut that down as well. Got it. Yeah, understood.
Understood. Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I think that's just like, that will be like very
important communication. And we can try to, you know,
like obviously I think everyone in our Xnode chat will know,
but you know, our Xnode chat is not
the full Xnode holder group, right?
So just making sure we can get that message out for people
so that they can get migrated to the new system.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I did have another question.
Is it where these smart contracts, I'm sure that they've been audited, or I don't know
if you guys are using Hacken at all for that, or just the idea that, is my vet safe in the
smart contract that's being held there?
I don't know if you can speak to that, Vineet or Jake.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, they have been audited by HACN.
We got all the green light there.
So, and then over the course of next two, three months,
we are like, because these contracts
will hold a lot of collateral in terms of wet rights.
So we are getting like two or three independent audits
more as well, because eventually this will become a core part of the protocol as well after Hayabusa.
So yeah, for now we have hack and audit cleared.
Awesome. Yeah, that's great to hear.
Hell yeah. Love it. Love it.
Let's get to breaking balls. His hand's got to be tired.
Unless that's my computer. You got a question?
No, it's me.
Okay, cool.
The numbers that are out there currently for all the nodes and all that stuff as far
as rewards, is that for what's going to be happening from tomorrow till mainnet? And
then everything else is kind of up in the air as far as APY goes with the validators.
Sorry, what numbers are you left? Like just the amount of veto that
you know each xnode or economic node would get daily. Is that for what's happening tomorrow
based on that five billion veto amount or is that like a rough estimate of moving forward after mainnet is launched?
Uh, that's no.
So that pool is for 180 days, six months.
Uh, after that, uh, we have the two simulators from WeChainStats and Redito
that will give you a more concrete example of how the API might reflect post-HayaBusa.
So whatever number you are seeing,
correct nodes and eco nodes are for this bootstrapping incentivization period, if you will.
Yeah, six months, 180 days.
Great, thank you. And then just a follow-up.
I heard Jake say something, that i'm sure it's like
uh nothing but in regards to the validators and incentives for people to come on uh nodes is the
only thing that they can offer them is better apys or could they delegate things could they
delegate other things to them can they delegate possible endorsement points for the DAO? Is that anything that you think
technically is something that could be possible?
Endorsements point for the DAO?
Help me understand, please.
Let's say a validator node has, I don't know,
100 endorsement points, right?
Or something like that.
And if they're not using them, they could say, if you stake to our validator, we'll give you these endorsement points for a dap on the dap.
Or is that completely unrelated?
The idea with opening up the network with 101 nodes
and each node defining or whatever suits them
is to actually create that market.
So some validators might offer that functionality,
some might not.
At the end of the day, it's a proof of stake network.
So eventually the block proposal probability
will be dependent on how much VET is staked in each validator, right? And then it's up to the validators to attract delegators.
So that's how that market is being governed. We don't want to, like, let's say, put some
constraints that you have to do this or you don't have to do this.
But we are hearing all different kind of chatter.
So at this point, being the market,
let's say this creator,
we don't want to tilt the balance if you will.
But everything is possible except for the validators.
This is awesome, by the way.
So Vineet and Jake, thank you guys so much for like joining
the space and just like talking to us because i feel like there's so much ground to cover and i
feel like we're just getting a lot of really clear answers uh straight from you guys so just wanted
to say thanks uh before we get too far down the road here yeah yeah no and and obviously you know
again uh if in case you guys aren't aware, there is a V-Chain space tomorrow.
That's going to really, Sonny's going to be joining, so we're going to get S-Dog up there and really be able to, you know, break things down.
But it's great to have a little, you know, space the day before where we can kind of dive into the weeds a little bit more and get some clarity,
you know, the day before this change comes. Right. So hopefully, you know, we got a lot,
a lot of people in here that are soaking it all up. Hopefully you guys are soaking up what you
hear and this is, this is going well, but I, again, I have to agree with Mr. Whittleman.
Really appreciate you guys for taking the time to come in here
and answer these questions
because obviously this is a time where
everyone's got questions and it's
difficult to get them all answered in one day.
Right? So really appreciate
you, Jake and Vinny. Jake is always
making himself available when these big things
come around. He's just going crazy
all the friggin' time.
It's bedtime too.
Well, I try to start a little early, so it's not killing them too bad.
So hopefully he's not struggling too bad.
So good. Baby's a seat. That's the main thing.
Hey, that's, that's a win right there. That's a win.
What, where'd he go? We had, we had Weissingren come up.
He dropped down. Maybe he had to cycle out. I don't know. Weissingren,
feel free to come back unless you're,
unless you're engagement farming, you sneaky devil.
Anyone that wants to come up and join the chat, hit that request button.
There's a lot going on. We're talking a lot of the new nodes,
but of course there's a lot of other things going on right now.
So if anyone wants to come in and ask any questions about other things with the renaissance that's happening, absolutely come up.
Talk about it.
Even if it's not a question, you've got a thought, concern, more than welcome to come up.
I mean, right now we've got things going on with the VBetterDAO as well, with the grant process that's been changed,
things that are going on throughout the ecosystem.
So many to touch on.
So by all means, feel free to hit that request.
Come on up.
Don't be afraid to change the subject.
It's quite all right.
Mr. Whittleman or Breaking Balls, will I have you up here? Is there anything else on one of these other topics going on that you guys want to touch base on shout out to z loop down there as well I
know those guys uh had a little bit of a rough weekend so shout out to z loop and uh yeah else
in this process yeah I'd love to um since we still have a neat and jake here because I would imagine
at some point one of them has to drop but um I have a couple of Renaissance follow-up, but yeah, I think we do
want to get to some VBetterDAO topics like the grant program and Zloop and Arkeen and kind of
what's going on there. But I just want to get some more like clarification, just like how we're
thinking of it. So, you know, with starting tomorrow, right? Xnodes can basically migrate to the new system.
This is called phase two,
which is the Hayabusa launch, right?
And it's my understanding
that this is still not mainnet, right?
This is still considered testnet,
but you will be earning VEFO rewards.
Is that correct?
Yeah, that is.
Perfect.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's, i just wanted to make sure that my understanding was
clear but but what we're earning because normally right once we hit mainnet which will be q4 of
this year you you will be taking your nft uh your new xo nft or your economic node nft and you're
going to be um delegating it to a validator and once node NFT, and you're going to be delegating it to a validator.
And once that happens is when you're going to be earning Veto
and the APYs are going to change
and potentially the early bird rewards program of six months
is going to kind of dwindle.
And then now it's going to be sort of what it's going to go,
what it's going to be for from like you know six months
from now to the future right yeah exactly so the rodino and the vechain stats calculators they are
they're looking at that time frame so that's uh you know you can look there for guidance and
obviously a key change when high boozer hits is that vifo uh vifo is only then generated by the protocol by staked NFT.
I've got time.
I don't use NFT in that too much.
Staked.
Oh, God, I've lost my train of thought now.
The delegator?
Yes, the delegator is the one that will be generating the VIFO.
So right now you have this passive model where it just generates anywhere.
There's a VET token.
It could be in exchanges.
It could be in your granny's wallet with two VET. But after that, that's a fundamental change for the tokenomics then, because then it's only generated by people that are actively
staking the VET. And that's how we've obviously been able to bring this massive deflationary
pressure to VETO. Because for instance, right right now you've got Binance, Coinbase,
Bybit, all the big exchanges just generating tons of VEFO and doing nothing with it. So
it's kind of causing this inflationary pressure in a kind of dead pool because it's not going
anywhere. So that was one of the kind of resolutions to that and a way to kind of bring
inflation way, way down and actually try and make it deflationary.
So as a supplementary, obviously, with Galactica, which is also going live tomorrow, by the way,
you know, that introduces the gas fee market and the 100 percent base fee burn. So that will be
live tomorrow. And that's that's changing how, you know, costs are forecast on chain. If there's too
much congestion, they get more expensive. It's kind of modeling the EIP, the Ethereum, you know, costs are forecast on chain. If there's too much congestion, they get more expensive. It's kind of modeling the EIP, the Ethereum, you know, gas fee market.
It's kind of got that logic in mind, which is basically just to prevent spam.
You know, VeChain is very cheap.
If you were to be a nefarious actor and you actually blasted the chain,
you could in theory throttle it but with a gas fee market that's what that stops um but yeah that
you could in theory throttle it.
But with a gas fee market, that's what that stops.
that kind of gas cost then will potentially be more variable so there's an increase in consumption
there's a 100 percent base fee burn then baked in and then of course these kind of deflationary
mechanisms from high booze onwards so lending nicely to the tokenomics. Yeah, that's great. And is it where I would expect that the gas costs to rise over time based on the deflationary pressure?
Is that sort of kind of what's going to happen?
Like I know right now, at least for VChain, since the hundred times, you know, less cost for transactions,
like things have been very, very cheap for a very long
time. And is it now, you know, I imagine it would take time, but is it your understanding that
those gas fees are going to, like you said, be variable, but do you think that they're not going
to be as cheap as they are now? I don't know if you can speak to that or what you can say, Jake.
I mean, obviously the goal is always to keep it as cheap as possible. We maintain the levers that allow the, you know, the kind of decentralized gas cost adjustment
facility. So if there was ever a time when VIFO was to appreciate substantially, then, you know,
measures could be taken. There will always be a key objective. Like, if we want to achieve mass
adoption, things cannot be very expensive. Like, it be right right yeah yeah that's good to know yeah thank you for
reiterating the fact that you guys still have those control of those levers to adjust things as
accordingly right if things get too expensive um awesome no that's great uh i'm trying to think if
there's anything else re-wise to touch on.
Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm excited.
I will say as an ex-dode,
like there is some weariness to like doing this,
but that's where it's just like, you know,
I think I personally might wait to see some other people do it first and then-
That's fair.
Yeah.
I understand.
I mean, everyone's in the same boat.
We've got these bags of that and we're looking at it like, oh, my God.
You know, obviously the team have been testing it, working around the clock, security audits and whatnot, and testing in a test environment is underway.
And actually, to foreshadow, we're going to do a live stream next week with Sonny.
So Sonny's been super, super busy, so difficult to lock the man down.
Super, super busy.
So difficult to lock the man down.
But we've got him for a live stream where if you guys really want to just wait,
then we will do a live demo and you'll be able to see that in action.
So that will be on the 8th, FYI, everybody.
Okay, nice.
Yeah, I'll put that down on my calendar.
And I think that'd be something where you could maybe take snippets out or something
and we can repost them so that people can have a visual demo, right yeah and there will be content tomorrow obviously being a like a walkthrough video content
to show the process as well so we have real people ready to put it on the line and and you know do it
for camera so obviously you know the team is has done tons of testing and auditing and it you know
it does work.
But I understand exactly why people would be fearful.
I mean, I still get scared sending any transaction of any value anywhere.
You kind of refresh your page.
You got to be careful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Be careful.
I mean, I know just because I always see people.
There was someone recently, that said that their all
their vet went missing and you know I think this was on Reddit and just try to like figure out okay
how do I go missing I think uh Mike also looked up and just like well you know doesn't look like
you're connected to anything like it seems like someone probably got a seed phrase and we're like
oh did you post your seed phrase anywhere and he's just like no like I didn't post it anywhere I guess
it's in my cloud photos I took a photo of it or something you're just like dude come on like this is yeah like that is
a bad so just like yeah um this is just web three right where just try to reiterate um educate
people about the the scams and the techniques that bad actors are using right like uh and just just
being very careful but i i actually really right? Like, and just being very careful.
But I actually am really impressed with vWorld Wallet,
just being able to kind of like identify an address book
so you know who you're sending your transactions to.
That's really, really helpful
because there's been a lot of like wallet poisoning.
Like sometimes people send you back like 0.01 VET
anytime you send anything with like a similar address,
this has been happening if you're using like any of the better swap or any of the
decentralized exchanges. So, you know, address book people, that's a great way to kind of make
sure your transactions are going where you mean them to go. So just a little plug there.
So just a little plug there.
No, no, it's a good point.
I think, sorry, if I'm not cutting anybody,
but like we will recognize all the proper contracts
of Stargate, so you should see proper identifiers
in your VWorld extension as well as mobile.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed if Apple improves,
Apple approves the release.
But yeah, let's hope we have some time.
We have some time.
Come on, Apple.
Yeah.
Apple loves to change.
Every person that reviews,
they have like a different opinion
is quite funny.
Jump through hoops.
One release goes out,
the next one, someone else is like,
nah.
And then you're like,
what the hell?
It was approved last time.
Go on.
Hard life, this software development, eh? Yeah? It was approved last time. Go on.
Hard life, this software development, eh?
Yeah, I don't know how they do it.
I don't know.
I have a hard enough time just operating this shit,
let alone imagining.
Someone in our XNode group,
oh, Greco, actually, he's down here listening.
He wanted, Vinit, if there's a way,
just because I know that there are those scam NFTs that have been making their way into people's view world wallets right where it's just like you know better airdrop and
whatever right and people then it takes you to one site you connect your wallet and all
your funds get siphoned um but is there a way in the nft uh like page in the v world wallet
to have a banner to just like like a warning to be
careful of like NFT scams with airdrops like just some sort of like banner that is just
always there so that when you go to that NFT page it's some sort of like thing that people
can reference you know.
Yes so I think it's probably this release or next release, but definitely I think number one, the steps we are taking is as soon as we identify, we block those NFTs so they don't show up in your WeVault wallet.
So hopefully in the last few, last couple of weeks, it's not that the new scam NFTs are not being issued, it's just WeVault is blocking them.
It's a manual process right now, but it is what it is. Not that the new scam NFTs are not being issued, it's just VWALD is blocking them.
It's a manual process right now, but it is what it is.
In the future, we will also do a, let's say, report scam feature through the VWALD wallet
itself so that the OGs in the network, if they identify that, okay, this seems like
a scammy.
If more than two people report it it will be reported as scam of course
there will be a review process and then we are also bringing on some let's say machine learning
and ai technologies so that they can identify because let's be honest like these kind of
schemes are prevalent on other networks right it's It's just that it's starting to happen on VeChain.
So we have identified some of the, let's say,
key fundamental blocks that we want to bring in VWorld.
So then it should be automatically blocked, right?
So yeah, I have tested that feature.
So it's basically coming in next week.
Okay. No, that's great.
That's great to know that those features are coming.
I will say that I do think having some sort of like banner,
because I know with the manual review process, right,
there's a little bit of downtime where like someone could get hacked
or fall for one of those scams.
But I think if there's just some sort of disclaimer,
that's just always kind of there, at least in the interim,
just to kind of educate people.
Like it's a form of education, right?
A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And this is a little bit of internal talk, but like,
this is why we can't have nice things. So if you will, in your token registry, in your WeWorld wallet,
the only tokens that you see by default is what have been, let's say, published on the
WeChain token registry token registry right any new scam
tokens does not show up automatically whereas on nft we thought that you know it's a good
opportunity for community to market their projects and things like that so let's do an automatic
detection of nfts whatever your wallet has but now i think you, we have to be careful of, let's say, fishy people who are trying
to scam the community, which is not good.
So we will turn back to NFT registry.
In the meantime, once we have proper machine learning setup done, we will add those.
So there is a lot of work being done.
Yeah, it was just a surprise to us because it's just been in the last four or five weeks that we have started to see a lot of, and especially these better airdrops.
Yeah, the same ones.
Yeah.
I mean, it's one of those things where it's unfortunate, but it also is a good signal that we're kind of achieving mass adoption because now it's like, we're the ones getting the scams, right?
We've made it, Mr. Whittleman ones getting the scams right we've made it we've made it um now and a reminder guys uh you can when you go into your v world
wallet you can go you can actually um hide things so if you see an nft that's a scam you can just
hide it uh there's also i think gman uh actually made a wallet that you can just send it to. It's like a dead wallet.
But it's great to hear, Vineet, there's plans to try and sort of navigate and mitigate this.
Again, a reminder, folks, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
No one's trying to give you $9,000 free better.
I mean, I'm sure you're a great person and you got people who love you, but let's not.
No one's trying to give us 9000 better for doing nothing.
So just just be mindful of that.
And if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Ask questions.
Let's keep this thing moving.
We're going to get back to breaking balls.
Then we got Jordan Sauer and we got Z loop coming to join the chat.
So breaking balls.
What what else you got here, my friend?
You guys, I was looking at transition a little bit to the DAO,
if possible, unless so.
Before we do that, breaking balls, one second.
So I just wanted to confirm the Xnode NFT upgrades
that we are seeing on VeChain stats.
Yeah.
Their maturity is ending ending and they are
actually being upgraded. So they would have initiated before 30, 60 days. It's not that
they have initiated an upgrade yesterday or two days before. So just wanted to confirm,
got a confirmation from two different people in the team. So I think, yeah.
Oh, interesting. Oh, okay. so that just means that the upgrades were
complete it's not that they were yes okay got it yeah yeah understood understood okay great thanks
for that clarity there you go all right uh go ahead breaking balls what uh what were you thinking
hopefully z loop didn't want to stick on this topic i think they uh should be check with jordan
just to make sure in case he wanted to jump in on this real quick i think z loop wants to talk to me better now
um but jordan did you did you want have something on this topic we're here before we shift
i did um and hello everybody um a couple quick questions um first of all is there any estimates of how much VET might be sitting in dead or inactive wall that, what is being done to increase transactions?
A three-parter.
Yeah, and the economical with his time.
I remember to step my step.
Go ahead.
Good question regards, like, you know know air quote dead bet i mean that's a really hard one to
quantify because you it's very hard to know who's just parked it and left it like you see bitcoin
coming out of hibernation after 10 plus years so vinny is the chain master i mean but i honestly i
i don't know i don't know if that is possible that's a very good question
vinny is there such a way is that is it possible tell? I guess it's just on chain, isn't it?
Like, how would you determine something like that?
Sorry, what was the question about?
It was about VET. Is there a tool to determine, air quote, dead VET in something that's kind of been inactive that
might not migrate like Jordan was curious about quantifying I guess how much VET may not
create a node and take part in VIFO generation
um I yeah not right now like I think the definition you will have to define you know what you call as idle if you will
has it not transacted or interacted with the chain in the last year six months three months
but if you want like post high busa i think that will be very clear because the incentives will
not be in the favor of people just sitting on their vet right because the only vtho generation is if
you have minted a new stargate delegated nft nodes or eco nodes and you have delegated it to the
validators so post that it will be become little bit more let's say easier to estimate but for now
i think we will have to define some definition of inactiveness of a wallet or something.
There you go.
Nice.
Anything else, Jordan?
I know you had a few in there.
Was there another one?
Yeah.
Does the foundation have any sort of goal set for when Veto will actually reach the point of being deflationary?
I mean, there's not an internal metric I have seen. Obviously, it depends on certain factors,
transaction volume growth being the key one there. So it depends on continuing the growth of VBETA
and transaction volumes and all that good stuff. And yeah, I mean, that's going to be a key one.
I certainly haven't seen any goal myself.
I don't know whether Vinit has.
He's obviously been to the ground on tech.
Sorry, Vinit, keep dumping on you.
I mean, obviously, it's a step in the right direction either way.
So, yeah, I mean, I was just curious if there was any concrete
goals or anything like that but it doesn't sound like there are well i think the goals are around
the nft caps if you will the new target nft caps if you calculate the whole amount of
uh that can be staked keeping all the you know if you have to let's say
finish the supply that's the goal uh post hayabusa there won't be automatic vtho generation anyway
right so hopefully that consumes it so we are looking from a proof of stake and wet state goal point of view and eventually it will trickle down to vtho as
well so that's the primary goal for the team and with all this galactica fee market
no more vtho automatic generation things will start to go into the direction so we are kind of operating at a meta level if you will
because that's like a outcome of things that we want to control and the controlling factors are
your how much better state nft caps and things like that
there you go awesome thank you thank you thank you j. Thank you, Jordan. Thank you.
Absolutely. Always a pleasure to have you up here.
And of course, stick around as long as you'd like.
Let's let's get to breaking balls.
And then we got Z loop up here.
But it sounds like breaking balls got some people in the audience that have some questions. So breaking balls. What's what's going on?
What's up? Just wanted to segue and switch topics, but I think it's kind of all connected
as we're talking about inactive vet, inactive X nodes,
all that jazz.
So I feel like it's a nice place to pivot.
And I was thinking about endorsement points
earlier with my question of the knee.
I think we're starting to learn here and there
that the endorsement system might need a little bit of a revamping.
We're seeing a lot of DApps right now that are kind of like sitting, and there's a lot of extra endorsement points that are just doing nothing.
there's around 1,800 available for purchase at VDelegate.
There's around 1,800 available for purchase at VDelegate.
And as you noticed with our friend John,
he hasn't fully migrated to the DAO because he wasn't interested.
And I think there's probably a lot of other XNodes that feel that same way.
So my concern, when we talk about solving problems as we scale with the DAO,
when we talk about solving problems as we scale with the DAO,
how do we ensure that we're able to endorse more and more DAOs
if there's these zombie endorsement points that you need to either buy,
which is kind of difficult now if you think about it
since base allocation is gone,
or whether it's an Xnode that just doesn't even want anything to do with the
Dow. I was wondering your thoughts on that, Jake. Vanita, if you had any thoughts. A few of us have
been talking about this a lot, how could we solve this problem? And I guess I would just
curious on your side if it's something that you guys think is something that
that might need to be changed down the road or if there's anything you think that could be done about
it. I'm sorry to say if Vinny takes mean, I'm not really, I don't know how much liberty I have to say really.
But yeah, of course, there may come a point where the system needs to change to some degree. And that has been discussed.
I know that, but I don't really want to overstep my position and talk about things that aren't
necessarily for public, but it's a valid point as the Feedback DAO grows and scales.
Well, if you look at it right now, a lot has changed, right? The grant program's kind of
happening right now. And if anything, I mean, isn't the community right now kind of deciding
who's coming on the DAO? I mean, just based on if we're going to vote these grants through.
I mean, that's one thing to think of.
But another thing that maybe Vinit could answer would be a quick fix
if we wrote a proposal.
If you look at some of the DApps that are currently on the app page,
they are slantiful of they have 300 endorsement points,
whether it's because, you know because Xnodes have upgraded during
the time that they were endorsed. And the problem is that an Xnode must or an endorser must use all
of their endorsement points currently to endorse one DA. I wonder if, I think there could be some
big changes down the line as far as endorsements go.
But could there be a Band-Aid in the near future where we could say, you know, a Mugnore node or a bigger node could split up their endorsement points so they can, you know, give some to a few deaps?
I mean, Mugshot's got 308 endorsement points right now.
Some have 180, 200. I understand, you know,
everyone wants a little bit of a cushion, but it would give a little bit more, you know,
freedom to the X nodes. And then it also frees up. I mean, there's probably 300 points unused
over there if we did all the math. So I wonder if that's something technical, if that like would
be easy to implement or something that would take too much work
and we should think of something else.
Yeah. What do you think, Vineet? What do you think?
Technically, yeah. Technically, it's possible.
It's a matter of, I think, we just need to think through all the edge cases and everything uh although the other
point i would say is around the new the new supplier of excuse me the news uh let's say the
supply caps on economic nodes right so i think that considerably extends the amount of, let's say, points that are endorseable.
So I think-
Oh, so the endorse-
Wait, sorry, this is an important point.
So do all economic nodes that are going to be coming on, will they all have endorsement points?
For the new one, there will be proposals in future.
I think, yeah, for the new tiers that we are launching with Stargate.
But even like with the current one, there is a supply, right?
So I think there is enough supply of endorsement points to be given to scale up.
Like the last calculation I did when we were launching was around 150 or 180 apps with the existing system.
So I think we should not be running out of endorsement points.
So let's just, yeah, I mean, that's one factor that, you know, there is enough endorsement
points if the app is good and things like that.
But again, I would urge that, yeah, let's think through it. I think you guys
are in conversations with Ben from our team, who is writing the proposal, so we can discuss it. And
I mean, if there is enough merit, why not? Like, why not? It's a doubt.
Well, yeah, because it's not about how many there are out there in the ether.
It's about how many are out there that are ready to be used.
You know, it's like, so if they're on VDelegate and no one can afford to buy them anymore,
or it's seen as like not real good, you know, practice to be buying your way onto the DAO,
you know, no matter, you know, whatever your opinion is.
And then we have these X nodes that have no interest in doing anything with the DAO, you know, matter, you know, whatever your opinion is. And then we have these X nodes that have no interest in doing anything with the DAO. So we don't know. It's like your same answer
to not knowing how much of that is available. That's like just sitting in someone's wallet
because they're just not using it, you know? So, um, if we can, at least we know, at least we know
that like the people that are already endorsing, we know they're already endorsing, they're already active.
So why not give them an extra tool to use to spread out the love?
That's all.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.
I think as a general rule, like anything to do with tokenomics
or inclusion and exclusion of the apps,
there will have to be a proposal.
So I urge please, and this is not like,
this is from foundation team as well.
Like we are not trying to change anything
just because we can, right?
I think we have been in the,
we just passed the one year mark, if you will.
So I think that's a good milestone for VBetterDAO.
I think, I mean, here it's first July. So I can say that this is the day mark if you will so i think that's a good milestone for vbetter dao i think i mean here
it's first july so i can say that this is the day when the round one started for vbetter
now last year so i think we are in a good shape right now so we don't want to be changing
tokenomics or key mechanisms the most most changes are being like done around you know improving the UX of onboarding people
and things like that so but proposals are always open we have dedicated team members who will
consult with you and then we will internally do the technical feasibility as well so that's the
route even we are taking right like? Like whatever like foundation wants to do
and things that is better for the betterment of the platform.
That is also the route.
So hopefully proposals is the way to go
and we will try to optimize like the proposal flow as well.
So there are some thoughts, but it will come into course.
Okay, thank you so much. I just I really appreciate you answering this question and
having you on just to know on a technical side that it could be done. So
really appreciate you, man. And like, honestly, the DAO has been such a good
addition. And you know, it's been nice to use and
meet a lot of new people and work out problems. And so thank you for all
the work you've been doing. It's really, really appreciate it.
Cheers, man. Thank you.
Yeah. Beneath the man, this guy's an absolute legend.
And, and just to real quick, before we go to Z loop next, I want to, you know,
I think, I think, yeah, we can do a lot of proposals if we want,
but I think, you know,
the last thing you want to do is, is get into a situation where
we're chasing our tail, constantly trying to make adjustments that maybe they don't, we don't know
for sure if we need to make them right. But it's great to have the conversations. I think that's
the value in here is, you know, we, we can talk things out and, you know, maybe there's something
happening that can be fixed without a proposal
that we uncover just by talking about it.
Right.
And I think that's Vinny's point there is there might be ways to activate some of these
node holders and these endorsers, you know, in a way that we don't have to just completely
change everything.
But it's great to know that, you know, if we get into a, you know, break glass in case of case of emergency, we can spin up a proposal if we need to.
But having these convos, I think, is the most valuable thing we can do.
And whatever comes from it, it's going to be fun to see.
It's been an interesting year.
You can only imagine what 12 months from now is going to look like.
Holy smokes. Let's go to Zloop. year uh you can only imagine what 12 months from now is going to look like holy smokes
uh let's go to z loop appreciate uh eric i'm assuming that's eric behind the account
uh just good to see you eric thanks for coming back we got a chance to talk with you a few weeks
ago start of the uh the month uh had a uh a grant round uh went, well, it was interesting and it was disappointing
for you guys.
So I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on the conversation as we bring you in.
And happy Monday, by the way.
Well, like you said, I didn't start as happy Monday.
Indeed, we had an exciting week.
Indeed, we had an exciting week.
We are quite new to the DAO,
and we have worked hard connecting,
monitoring also what's going on.
And it went smooth, I must say,
most of the week and so on.
Then it turned into a very rough end of week
when suddenly the last six hours,
we faced a rally of high voting powers,
people, a group of people
that were killing the advance we had
to the point we missed the approval by 0.3%.
So obviously that was a sore end
and actually even a shock to me, I must say,
because I didn't expect that on the DAO
we'd have faced such a spirit of, you know,
strategizing votes to the very end
to turn the table.
So yeah, it was a new experience.
I was enjoying the experience of the DAO.
And when we exchanged, you could give a bit of the audit
so we can ask questions and try to understand what went wrong
because we can always improve and what we should have done better.
I know that we had discussion with the grant team that suggests that we reapply
sometime again, but personally, I'm a bit concerned that if we don't know
why people have strategized to kill the proposal at the very last hours,
it won't change anything again.
We will just stress for a week of doing another application
and watching the votes every hour like we have done
just to face the same situation.
So we are still quite motivating
and we still believe that there's a lot of things
we can bring from our past experience on bringing Web2 people into the blockchain element.
But we need to learn, obviously, connect more was maybe new to the point that there were some
lupos like we couldn't discuss.
There's no space where we can discuss except the discourse that was made
a few weeks before, but nobody asked questions.
So if you don't have questions, it's difficult to answer.
So yeah, if even the audience people have opinions or have heard
things and so on, it would be very interesting for us to collect your feedback and so on and see
how we build up something if we decide to go back to on the table of approval and so on.
Yeah, and I want to throw it maybe to Jake or anybody else that wants to respond here.
But I think pulling back, and I don't want to take the focus off you, Eric and Zloop, but I think if we look at the Dow and governance and everything, I think one stat from the voting for you guys that I think stands out is the 51% abstain.
think stands out is the the 51 percent abstain uh i think is kind of representative of of an issue
we still sort of have and that is the the lack of engagement and active voting we see in the
dow right i i think we're still yeah let's go ahead yeah yeah that you're right because all the other problems of before had
the same the same abstain level right yeah i i can speak to this a little bit z loop um
just because i was part of this first wave of the grant program as well this new this new version of
the the grant program um i'm i'm with the scoop up app that was literally the week right before you.
And it's the same where our app and then reuse before us, it's all 50, 52% upstained.
And what I'd say is that we actually have a working app on the DAO.
It's live.
We've been on the DAO for three months.
And even still, we barely passed the grant proposal, right. And so that's, that's really interesting to me. So I would say that
that I want to say that to encourage you, because I don't think it has to necessarily do with what
you guys are doing, like Zloop, right. I think that the issue is more of there's a lot of people that just don't know what's going on. Right. And they think, you know, I think as we go into the five weeks with the five different
DAPs that are applying for the grant foundation, there's going to be it'll be interesting to see.
Like, I'm very curious when Arkin goes on, if there's this this fatigue of people that don't know that this is how the new grant program works,
or every week there's going to be an app to be voted yes or no. And so I think those people are
just like, oh, another one? No, we were already giving away too much. That's sort of the vibe.
So I'm very curious. Keep talking with the grant team. I think reapplying is in your future.
Keep talking with the grant team.
I think reapplying is in your future.
What I would like to encourage you to do is just,
I don't think this should stop you.
I think you can still press on and have hope and good faith
that you guys will get the grant, especially for us.
I can talk to Scoop up because we applied for the initial grant program
before it was this new version.
Same, same, actually.
We applied and we were approved before.
We were approved in March.
But then it was postponed because that was the new.
The new way, right.
And so on a new way.
So we had to wait that it was put in place.
Right.
So for us.
It's even more so.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, exactly.
For us at ScoopUp, and I don't know what Zloop is like, you know, for us, we just try to move forward without the money and try to go ahead and get on the DAO. Once you're on the DAO, people can see that your app works, they can see if they like it. And then I think what's going to happen is that those people that are using your app are more inclined to vote yes. And then that is what's going to tip the scale in your favor.
Because like you guys were pretty close where, you know, like you said,
what was it like 0.3% is what you guys lost it by.
Yeah.
So that's where it's close.
And I just think you just need more people on your side.
And so like discourse, I think is for like,
it's not where the most of the community engages.
Like I think coming on these
spaces is great being on Twitter, just like doing engagement on Twitter, with with people with the
doubt, even just like moving forward and getting on the Dow, I think it's going to just make your
presence more known, and start just advocating for yourselves. And so I just want to encourage
you like, because like scoop up, we've been on the dow for like three to four months and even for us it was hard to pass um but i think just the fact
that we have a working app and we're already there in the community is kind of what tipped it in our
favor um so anyways just wanted to kind of give my thoughts thanks for this feedback and actually
just to to comment on that i see a lot of people hands, so I'm very happy to have also the feedback. On the abstain level, it was the same pattern because I followed a bit your
experience and the previous one obviously to see how we're going to be eaten. But in
our case, we have monitored every hour the percentage and the numbers of votes and so on. And even we have an Excel where we check the, monitor the variation and so on,
just to see the trend and so on.
And the abstain basically comes from the we delegate, clearly.
Yesterday, 4 p.m. Europe, there was 90 abstain out of the organic votes, I would say, outside of WeDelegate.
It was 90 abstain.
And then the load of WeDelegate has been put on the table for two hours.
And then there was like 3,800 abstain.
And actually, it's something that's also why we are digging with,
when we're connected with V-delegate people,
I'm waiting to be connected with them to ask the question
because it was a kind of mystery.
Yesterday, for the round 52,
they had 5,500 voters on V-delegates, and there's only 3,800 abstain,
materialized on the proposal vote,
but there was no,
so there's a missing 1,600 voters
that are vanished.
They are not on abstain,
they are not on yes,
they are not on no.
So that has been changed,
and obviously it's a big mess
compared to
the organic
voters that were totaling
about 1,100 voters
in our case. And also
same for your guys and
Reuse.
So that is a bit a question.
But clearly, the abstain comes from that
system of
delegate.
Right. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's the thing where like, I think the abstains are just
what they are. And it's just about like getting more people to vote yes for you. Right. Because
it's like, if you just had a few more, you would...
And it's what has not happened. You know, what happened is that in the course of the week, some hours were not favorable,
where you lose a bit.
The balance of pros without the voting power
was always most of the time in our favor.
We ended with 150, 148 votes lead,
but the weight made it that it turned the table.
And we could see that on the last six hours, there was only votes against, only the last
six hours.
Before, there was sometime a peak, and then we were recovering with the organic votes
and so on.
But on the last six hours, it's only dominating high- power voting people just pushing for the no.
A lot of the whales vote on Bedelegate.
That's why.
A lot of the whales that hold a lot of better and a lot of that weight have their stuff
staked on Bedelegate and they vote through there.
That could probably explain it.
We see a lot of wallets from there
with that. So that could explain that too. But very few votes. It was like the last six
hours is about 60 votes for Zloop and 60 votes are a bit more against the proposal. So out of
the 5,500 is something new,
quite, quite, was a really strange,
but we will try to understand it.
Yeah, that could give an idea.
Yeah.
I think overall, just like,
we all have to understand
that this grant process is brand new
and Mr. Whittleman made a couple great points
that reuse and, I mean,
he's been on the DAO for a while,
but Mr. Whittleman's been an x node for seven or
eight or you know for eight years he's he's helped carve proposals out he's done a lot of good he's
he's gotten a lot of goodwill in this community and he still had a hard time passing you know
reuse they came from uh the v builder. They've been active in the community.
A whole held vChain in a while.
I think there's something to be said, too, that you guys are the first ones that have come out on the grant that no one really knows who you are.
You know, like the history of endorsements and grants, you know, dApps usually just get the grant passed by vChain and then they're all magically on the DAO.
And we've been wrong by a few of them.
So the community is very defensive about who comes onto the DAO and we're definitely not
ones that are just going to start handing out money, you know, and because some users
also aren't X nodes and don't have endorsement points.
Now they feel empowered by this grant process.
So those folks that feel like, you know, DApp shouldn't be getting on the DAO for any reason.
Now they're channeling that energy,
which again, like Mr. Whittleman said,
is not directed towards you.
Because if you take a look at all the no comments
starting at reuse to Mr. Whittleman, to you guys,
there's a lot of talk right now that's saying
these grants should not be, they should be loans.
It's not something I miss it.
The first two days, it was purely that.
Yeah. And you know what?
That's a lot of chatter.
This grant process just became brand new.
It was not something a lot of people
were into for various reasons.
But now it's here.
And I think, I mean,
I have to go back and look at the proposal, but I think it's like, I think we're trying it out.
I think there was like, I think at the end of the proposal, it's like a test for a year.
You know, and if we're not seeing, like if the community keeps shutting down the apps and like maybe there's something that's going to have to change.
Or maybe if these people that keep chatting about, they just like to comment on the nose, then they should get together and write a proposal and get the support from the community to make these loans.
And then if that's what the community wants, that's what the community gets.
So like Vanit said, everything starts with the proposal.
So I'm sorry it's not on you guys.
I know you've been doing a lot of work.
I know you reached out to me, to a lot of people. I personally voted for you, you know, but yeah,
make yourself active. That's all, you know, you're, you're here on this space. And I think
that's a great first step. And what breaking balls to talk about for me, I would have liked it where
like, for the grant program, I would like a fish more official communication being like, Hey, this is the new grant program. This is the first wave. There's going to be five dApps. I'm
going to push them on the DAO week after week for five weeks. Here are the dApps. Here's a little
blurb about them. Let's get a Medium article. So that makes it official and more in canon,
something that people can reference. I think that's where, to me at least, it's just like some people just don't know
this is the new process, right?
So I think that worked against everybody
in all of our favor.
It was not visible that we did the due,
I mean, the WeChain team
has done due diligence on us for three months.
We had meetings, we had pitch, we had a presentation,
we have shown what we have done so far and so on.
And at the end of that process, we got selected for the grant program.
And then after, there was that vote for the change of the grant program
way, proposal, which is brought to the DAO, which is great.
You know, it's nothing wrong with that.
But it was not communicated as such.
So I do understand, yes, we come off nowhere, but for the community
and we couldn't engage before because we had to, you know, when we had the green
light say, yes, you can be go on the ground and say oh wait now we can't send you
the the agreement because there's no agreement anymore you will have to go to the new process
and you have to wait that the new process is on so for us we were just passive waiting that the
new process is is starting and when the new process started it was just okay here now you have to make
make a one pager that was presented on the on the discourse
and then after the one pager that was on the proposal so you know it we were also just jumped
uh pushed on the in the arena very fast with no preparation because we had no certainty when it
was coming and when it was going to act it was postponed all the time. Initially, it was beginning of April, and after it was end of April, and we are in June.
Yeah, I want to jump in.
We got a ton of hands that we've been kind of not getting to, but I want to give a little bit of clarity from my perspective.
Because, one, yeah, Eric, I think Breaking Ball said it.
We're very tentative here with new people coming in.
It usually never works out very well.
If we're being honest with new faces that come in looking for support.
It's traditionally we I always recommend get to know the community for a while.
And I know it's a pain in the ass, but it seems to be the way that this community.
I mean, if you even want a chance, that's kind of where you have to start.
But I want to talk specifically before we get to some of these hands about the space we did with you a few weeks ago.
And I hadn't heard of some of the teams that I spoke with until that morning.
Just so you guys have an idea of kind of what that space was.
We got a bunch of teams on there.
It was a great space.
I thought we had a great time. But I think we got some teams on a few weeks ahead of time,
and we didn't really give everyone a chance to speak.
And I've been speaking with Kim at the foundation,
and I'm going to be actually moving forward.
We're going to be taking these grant proposal teams
and giving them the opportunity to speak before their voting weeks
and giving you guys the opportunity to have the platform you deserve.
And giving you guys the opportunity to have the platform you deserve.
I think it's fair that we get these teams on and have a little time to prepare.
And like what these guys are saying, promote it a little bit.
Give people an idea of who's going to be coming on.
And not be a last minute thing.
I think that is an issue we have here as an ecosystem.
And if you do reapply, I certainly look more.
Are we more than happy to have you guys back on as,
as we get ready for that voting round to,
to give you a chance to really connect more with the community.
But I also think to the, to the point before that is, you know,
making sure that you're active.
I know you've been slamming it this last week on the socials.
I see you.
I see you tweeting all the time, man.
You guys are going hard.
But popping in, you know, spaces, even if it's for 10, 15 minutes, being visible and keeping pushing, I think will go a long way for you guys.
We didn't know they exist.
You know, we only discover your space because it was organized, like you said, at the last minute and we got invited, I think, Sunday for Monday to join.
So now we know where is the space and I know you are the point of contact and so
on, and it's becoming a bit easier.
That's for sure.
I had never heard of z loop until that morning uh so yeah that's kind of
where we are now and i think that's something that we as an ecosystem are still trying to
figure out right and uh shout out to jake in the foundation and veneet uh and kim and connor uh i
want to get connor we got so many hands to get to, but I want to give
Connor a chance to jump in here. We are trying to bridge that gap between the foundation
and the community and continuing to build together and find a way that we can all work together
to do what's best for the ecosystem as a whole, whether it's myself and other space hosts
or Jake taking time to join us here
or Connor sort of being that intermediary that we all need.
It's a team effort.
And Zloop, I just, Eric, I just want to say,
like to these guys' point, don't get too discouraged.
I know it sucks right now,
but I think there's still an opportunity
here. It's just, we can, hopefully
this can be a learning situation
for all of us
and you guys can get back on the horse
and see about getting this thing
passed.
I mean, team was very, very supportive
and we worked a lot
together to build up
the proposals and so on,
to put in shape.
And so no doubt, but I understand also it was new to them
because it's voted by DAO and then they have to implement.
So they also made some feedback.
We had discussion today and gave us some hints on how to improve also
because like I say, during of during the proposal a space
where you can have a direct chat with the the project owner will be good for anyone because
i've seen some people very very few comments what they vote they just you know put their voting uh
yes no some gave us the blessing of commenting, whether they were pro or cons.
And obviously you can always learn,
but I've seen some heavy votes for some of them
where you can see that the person who have voted
didn't misunderstood what we have put on the proposal,
or made a shortcut,
and mixing milestone, duration, targets and so on
or doing due diligence and say,
what the fuck is that?
There's no way.
But you can't answer.
You know, you can't even reply and comment
and say, no, that's not exactly that.
There's no space.
It's just plan, boom, face it.
And that's it.
So where it would have been good
that there's a space where if someone has a doubt before voting and say, you reach the project owner and say, hey, tell me more about that. I think there's only out of the five proposals, there's only one question from one person on reuse
that gave the opportunity for the project owner
to reply structurally and so on.
But the other proposal, there's no question at all.
So how do you address question?
I could only generate with the team some posts
answering some objection.
As you may have seen.
Are we going to move on to another topic here?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me.
I want to go to Connor real quick just because he came up for this.
And then I got you, Lib, next.
I think Plunk, then Jordan, and Hodelpuss, then Jordan.
Connor, did you want to come up and jump in on here?
Yeah, I'll be really quick so I can get to Lib.
And I cannot believe the biggest Futter and V-Chain
is on stage right now.
Just kidding.
He's providing awesome critical feedback,
and I fucking love this guy breaking balls.
Anyway, great space, Pauly.
Yes, we are working on building a community engagement plan
for new dApps to try to connect with the ecosystem
because you can clearly see you don't need to beat a dead horse. building like a community engagement plan for new dApps to try to connect with the ecosystem because
you can clearly see you don't need to beat a dead horse that is one of the biggest things we need to
solve for it'll just help teams that maybe are unfamiliar with this ecosystem like zloop like
hey this is shit going on that you need to go tap into because as much as the foundation does
due diligence like you've heard from everyone up here the community has to as well um and they're
a little strict as they should be we We've been burned in the past.
So it's one of those things that something will be, you know,
coming as a resource for teams. We're figuring it out.
Pauly, you've been an incredible, you know,
resource and channel for this as well already.
So hopefully we can solve for this, but that's just all I wanted to share about that.
Thanks.
Yeah.
And Eric, we can, you know, like I said, we can get back, get you on here, but I appreciate you coming and sharing your perspective.
And I'm sure there'll be other comments from others throughout this, but I do want to get to the others who have topics of their own.
I appreciate it.
If people want to contact me, they can anyway to give me more feedback.
And I really appreciate it. And it's very contact me, they can anyway to give me more feedback.
And I really appreciate it.
It's very good.
Absolutely.
Appreciate you, man.
Look forward to talking again soon about it.
And, of course, stick up here because I think some people might have other comments. But let's get to Leekin with his microphone.
I don't know.
I still don't know what it is you're speaking to.
But it's an adventure every time, Leekin.
But thank you for coming up. What are your thoughts on what we got going on?
Is it much better though? Can you hear me? Okay. That's a little better.
It's not as tinny. Yeah. That might be.
I'm going to go, I'm going to go down and come back up.
Okay. All right. And let's,
let's go to Hottopus then. Cause we never get to hear hodlpus and
he's usually pretty quick and we'll go to plunk hodlpus what's going on brother happy monday
hey happy monday how you doing paul doing well man just up here doing my thing brother what do
you got for us no then just had a few um comments i guess on my opinion on maybe what's going on
with the grants um as i've seen a lot of people sort of fighting in the comments.
And I think it comes from a declining token price. And so a lot of people are looking for reasons as to why that's declining.
And I've seen people, oh, it's farmers selling or it's DAP selling.
people that are in the camp of dApps or selling to fund their business
and don't think that they should be funded by getting more better.
And so I think that's one of the problems that they're facing.
And, you know, another thing to add to that is it's one thing for a unique dApp
that comes out that's doing something new.
But a lot of times there's a tons of overlap on these dApps.
You have three or four dApps doing the same thing.
And you're like, why do we need another one?
That's going to be selling better to fund themselves.
That's all I got.
Yeah, no, and great points.
And I see Jake and Vineet put their hand up.
So I want to give them both a chance to respond to that comment.
Jake, your thoughts in here in the hodl pusses comment.
I actually didn't have an immediate response.
I'm actually stepping out, I was going to say.
Sorry, guys.
Don't mean to derail the conversations.
Very good topics going on.
But, yeah, it's 10 p.m. for me here.
And, you know, baby will be up at five and yeah
go be your dad jake yeah a couple hours to join us and answer the questions and
um really looking forward to the space tomorrow what what time is the space tomorrow i'm sure
we're gonna get if we can get a utc i can figure that out in my head it's going to be a bit of a stretch for some of the U.S. guys.
I'm sorry.
It's the only time we can lock Sonny in because he's in Singapore at the moment.
But it's 6 p.m. CET, which is UTC plus 2.
Basically, that's like morning for a lot of America.
So I apologize.
But, of course, will be recorded?
And we can share those links later on.
Hell, yeah. I'm sorry sounds good yeah will you go and rest up and and again appreciate you for joining us and look forward to hearing the conversation i'll try to have it on my speaker
in my workstation but yeah it'll get one ear on one ear pod in but no guys thanks thanks for
hosting the space obviously it's really important to have these conversations and like you know we have back and forth and all of a sudden a ton of new
information comes to light it isn't the easiest to communicate over social as you post one thing
and then 40 minutes later it's lost in the algorithm so you know i appreciate everyone's
patience and we're always trial and be better and i think actually this community touchpoint
is a really powerful vector so you know kicked off with connor paulie's taking the mantle mr whitman doing great work in the community like we definitely want to
build on this momentum and i love the idea about giving each app a platform before they come in
there needs to be a proper funnel you know i definitely agree with that and obviously i'm
here to support in whatever way i can whether it's just visibility the x account or whatever
you know definitely we're here to fight that fight
together, so yeah,
I'll leave on that note, but
thanks everybody, wishing everyone a fantastic
day, big day tomorrow, thanks Jake
Stargate, yeah, big day tomorrow
yeah, yeah, get to sleep while you can
yeah, it's gonna be crazy
alright, take care
I'll
let's go, alright
go ahead, I'll drop I have to drop as well.
Apologies, guys.
I have to drop as well.
Got to do some work.
Then got to wake up very early tomorrow because then we have final testing for Stargate.
So see you on the other side.
Don't make it happen.
Get some sleep.
Yeah.
Thank you, Vinic.
I really appreciate you being here and bringing your insight for a couple hours.
I know it's a crazy time for you guys, but coming out here and joining the chat, you know, it means everything.
So thank you for being here and look forward to talking again soon, my man.
my man yeah yeah uh paulie the uh the space tomorrow is 9 a.m west coast so probably for
Yeah.
Cheers, guys.
All right.
east coast it's noon i think that's what i saw no that's not bad yeah all right cool well there
you go guys around noon time for us east coasters and uh well everyone else out there you can figure
it out uh we're all that matters right that's what i'm saying uh just kidding all right let's get back to lib uh because i know he was waiting a long time and then we'll get to
plunk and reheat uh lib what what are you thinking what are your thoughts here
you're uh did he i did he die waiting do we keep him waiting that long?
Yeah, he might have.
What do you got?
Am I audible now? We got you.
What's going on?
So this is
I'm going to keep this
very short, but with respect to
the launch of Stargate
tomorrow, what is the use case for someone who has?
So if someone wanted to, say, for example,
have like 50,000 vets, right?
And they wanted to get into one of the lower tiers nodes.
Do they have to create separate wallets
and then move vets around
to get to what that threshold is for staking?
Or can they just stake all of the events in the single wallet
i can take this uh my understanding lib is that uh you can hold multiple
nodes within a wallet so if you've got 50 000 vet and i forgot what the smallest i i don't remember
the names like i think what is called dawn let's say let's just say that dawn is 10 000 bet i don't remember the names. I think one is called DAWN. Let's just say that DAWN is 10,000 vets.
I don't know if that's what it is.
Okay.
So if you have 50,000, you can hold five DAWN vets in that wallet.
Okay.
So you really don't have to theoretically break up.
You don't have to bring up five wallets, right?
Right.
You just have all of it.
Right.
That was the old way where the old way was you can only have one node per wallet.
And now even X nodes, you can hold multiple X node tokens in the same wallet.
I think for X nodes, like at the start, you have to have the different wallets to get that X node NFT, but then you can combine them.
But for economic nodes, for the new economic nodes, it should be more seamless where you just buy them and you get them all in that one wallet.
Okay.
And then the algorithm is going to figure out what the bins are within that one wallet, right?
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think there's a limit anymore with how many nodes the wallet can hold.
So it's just like you'll have five Don nodes in the wallet and each of those Don nodes represents 10,000 bet.
Okay.
Awesome.
Awesome.
And isn't there one additional step that has to happen tomorrow for you to mint the NFT?
Or is it just going to be seamless?
So, for example, if you have a wallet on – if you have a V-Shane community community wallet is it just going to be seamless or do you have to
physically do something to to meet the nft uh i think there's a stargate platform that you will
do everything through which i think will be in the V world wallet is my understanding and
it should be seamless I know
with the new economic nodes what
they spoke to earlier is that there
is a maturity period
so I think just like
you'll get those new NFTs and then there's like
a maturity period
okay yeah
because I think yes you're absolutely
right okay so look out for charity period. Okay. Yeah, because I think yes, you're absolutely right.
Okay, so look out for
a new app
in B Word at some point tomorrow morning
and then
just follow
whatever the instructions are and they should be
all set to go. Yep. And then
Jake was saying that there
should be some content
coming out, so then maybe also reference that content and should make it pretty self
explanatory.
Awesome.
Thanks, Mr. Whiteman.
Really appreciate it.
Yeah, of course.
No problem.
Appreciate you, Lib.
Appreciate you for coming up asking that.
You know, this is a,
is it time where people got a lot of questions,
but it's good that we're getting this conversation out.
So we aren't confused tomorrow, right, when we get into this thing.
It's good to have our heads on straight
and have a little bit of a game plan
so we're not tripping all over themselves
trying to figure out what the hell's going on.
How the heck do I do this stuff?
So appreciate Mr. Whittleman and Breaking Balls,
if not for even asking, just being here to be a resource to answer. So appreciate you, Mr. Whittleman and Breaking Balls, if not for even asking, just being here to be a resource to answer.
So appreciate you, Mr. Whittleman.
Let's go to Plunk.
We got Plunk and then Reheat was struggling to get up here because, well, the panel is so full.
There was no space for Reheat.
So appreciate you for sticking around.
Reheat, we'll get to you in a sec.
Let's go to Plunk.
How are you doing?
Happy Monday, Plunk.
Good to see you.
Hey, happy Monday.
Thanks for having me on as well.
Ooh, you are very quiet.
You are very quiet.
Oh, am I?
Yeah.
Can you hear me now?
Is that better?
You're like way quiet.
I don't know what you're using for headphones or ear pods or something.
I'll put myself on mute again again let that reheat come on
and i'll hop on afterwards that's okay perfect yeah we'll get you right up let's go to reheat
and we'll go back to fun reheat good to see you brother happy monday how's everything going
yo well it's almost tuesday here can you hear me okay you're in the future holy wow loud and clear
yeah well i mean it's 49 minutes till midnight.
So getting late, I'm going to hop off soon.
I just wanted to chime in and maybe give some insight
on the VDelegate situation for you.
I wrote a pretty big report like a month ago or something.
And there's likely like 2K wallets or something
from a bunch of old apps that were active in March.
And they haven't done anything now for three months.
So they are slowly falling off and they will no longer vote at all, pretty much.
So that could explain some of the few hundred wallets that you're seeing.
a few hundred wallets that you're seeing.
And also one of the big things that happens on every Sunday
is that the snapshot occurs at like, what is it, midnight?
So a lot of node holders will, or a lot of people
will just do whatever they want at the last minute on Sundays,
which could explain why you're seeing all of the actions in like the last minute on sundays which could explain why you're seeing all of the
uh all the actions in like the last hour of on sunday it's not a targeted attack on you specifically it's just that a lot of people do their last maintenance tasks uh won't be better
now on the last hour if you will uh i personally do that as well not just voting but you know
converting to vote making sure you haven't missed any proposals so you don't
don't lose rewards and whatever uh it's a lot of last minute actions that that go on uh on sundays
i also don't think it's something targeted to you specifically i also looked at all the wallets that
voted on on the proposal last night and i didn't really see any patterns. It looked organic.
Lots of known people from the communities voting both for and against. And of course,
if they have a lot of voting weight, it's going to sway in your favor or against you,
depending on what they vote for. I didn't really see anything targeted, so I wouldn't, again,
I didn't really see anything targeted, so I wouldn't take it personally.
I think it's more of the grant program itself, being what it is.
But I can DM you more later if you want to chat.
Yeah, Reheat has got some tools.
He's on the watch for any sort of weird things happening behind the scenes Zloop.
I saw it too.
I got the walls that voted no.
And, you know, like Rahit said, everything kind of looks organic.
And there is a flurry of action at the end.
Like you see it in the allocations too of apps at the very end.
You know, it might move up, it might move down.
So yeah, just wanted to reiterate what Rahit was saying.
Yeah.
I mean, the last like
last 12 hours and vdelegate always comes in like the 50 abstains they've been around for as long
as i've looked at them pretty much they uh they always come so i wouldn't look at the abstains
at all pretty much they are just default they they could be wallets that don't even do anything
like until just recently they could just be they could delegate wallets that have't even do anything like until just recently they could just be the delegate
wallets that have used one app once and they will abstain by default uh since vdelegate no longer
got any occasions until like this week uh they're back now but before that they got the uh what is
it the vpassport score from the vdeleg delegate voting so they're they've they've kept their
voting rights even though the uh person didn't actually do anything like you could you could do
one one action just through be a delegate and then keep voting on your proposals by abstaining so i
wouldn't count abstains for anything really yeah i think it's just discouraged Like you'd like to feel like half the voting
Isn't just
That aren't doing anything right
It'd be nice to start to see
That abstained percentage start to go down
Because we're getting more active
Voters and community members
That are engaging in the process
And you know it's not like
It actually hurts the voting
It's just it's not a it's not a fun
statistic to look at right it's all these people no it doesn't you know it's definitely not but
i wouldn't take it to heart at all it's uh it's just uh imagine someone just doing something to
two weeks ago and then forgot about it and they vote for you automatically because they
they used in-app staking and mugshot or green Greencard or Sephora or one of the other 15 apps that use VDelegate voting.
They would cast it as abstain.
And also, the delegates changed their minimum requirements now
to 50 vote or 50 better.
That wasn't the case until three weeks ago.
So if they've had less than 50, they've had voted in the past, but in the last three weeks,
two weeks, their votes wouldn't count. And those were in the thousands, for sure.
No, good to know. All right, Zloop, go ahead and respond.
Yeah, thanks for the clarification. I wanted just to respond to all plus the comments you know about apps competing or being on the same space
if we consider that the the DAO is a way better is about you know sustainable actions and if you
look at the global picture about climate change and pollution impact and so on if we believe that
only one app is enough for each topic on the DAO to solve the problem
that we are facing, then yes, we should not have apps redundant whatsoever.
I believe that we should have 100 apps fighting plastic pollution.
We should have 100 apps on carbon emissions and so on and so on so on um and then each each app uh we that is
our experience you know um i was in the when we started we're in the middle east there was
about seven apps on on recycling and so on and your social media what what you do, your exposure brings you a community that has no overlap.
Sometimes some have overlaps and then they decide which app they want that they prefer.
But the planet is large. There's 8 billion people to convince to do the eco-friendliness and so on.
And it's not a real competition. Yes, maybe on the allocation, and that is a problem to be solved separately.
But on the topic, should we have apps that are not on the same topic?
I personally believe that the more we have, it's the better.
And it's not because I've been jumping on the space and so on.
We've been there for a while on rewarding people for doing eco-friendly gestures.
We have our French representative has made a PhD
on the eco-friendly gesture, whether you can reward people.
And it is clearly documented.
We know that we can incentivize people
and make change, people changing by rewarding them and so on.
And it was scientifically measured by our team and so on.
So I'm convinced that we need more than one.
So, yeah.
And yeah, this is only the distribution that could be an off-tack.
Yeah.
And I think that's the direction Hodelpuss was going in,
but I'll let him make that point.
Hodelpus, go ahead and respond.
Yeah, I don't disagree.
I think competition is good.
The problem is if you have 100 of the same style of app all receiving allocation and burning it to fund their operations, that's where the issue lies.
And I think that a lot of people have that stance.
So I'm not necessarily saying yay or nay from my perspective i just think from what i've
seen a lot of people saying in the community absolutely yeah people are saying that yes
people are saying that i've seen that also but it's a part of things that we should also educate
you know if we want the the we better being strong on on impact uh the app should have a good track
record on impact and true impact, because
also some impact may be a bit lousy the way it's checked and so on.
But that is, I say, it's okay to start with.
But if the direction of WeBetter is to really have an impact, then all those things down
the line should be strengthened and then competition is part of it
agreed and coming on it's just you have more of a challenge because you have to distinguish what
separates you from the other ones that are already there and established yep yeah yeah and uh we're
gonna go to plunk in a sec but i just wanted to you know I think I've talked about this for a while, right?
About the challenge that we, a lot of these challenges we face,
unfortunately, I think an improved, better value would fix.
I think if there was less allocation going to teams,
but the allocation they got was more valuable,
they could give out allocations. You could afford
to give out 0.1 better to people if better was worth 10 times what it is. It's just how the math
works. Unfortunately, we see too many continuously. We see too many ways for value to leave better.
I think that's really what this all goes down to, really, if we're being honest about these conversations of loans and this and that.
People have been seeing money leave better.
And they're concerned, I think, that it's never going to get better because new things to spend keep coming up.
I think that's what a lot of people are concerned about is like, when are we going to get something that's going to inject value to better?
It's almost like enough's enough.
When are we going to see this go up?
And I think it's unfortunate, right?
Because we have good teams that are trying to come in and do good things, but this idea of another thing that is going to drain money pops into people's heads.
Because we have good teams that are trying to come in and do good things.
So it's a tough problem we're facing right now.
Hottopus, I see you coming unmuted. I don't know if you wanted to respond quick before we get a plunk.
Yeah, no, I'm just agreeing with you. That's why I prefaced what I said with exactly that.
With a declining token price, people are looking for a reason to explain that.
And one of the things is going to be where is all the sell pressure coming from?
Yeah.
So again, Zloop, don't take it too personal.
It's kind of a perfect storm right now.
Go ahead and respond.
Yeah, I don't think it's...
And the selling pressure, I can understand it for sure.
And the DAO also to figure out ways to give reason for people to buy.
And one of the reasons where people want to buy is when they see a huge ecosystem
that attracts more apps, attracts more people.
And so they say, hey, I want to join that ecosystem and so on
because, hey, I'm going to get a return of it.
So it's a mechanism to also re-inject earnings and so on
on the purchase side and not only on the distribution side.
That's for sure.
Yeah, and I'm not saying anything negative about you guys at all, Zloop, and
I'm not even necessarily giving my personal
opinion, I'm just saying what I think from a general
sentiment of what I see
being posted on Discord
and, you know, other places.
Yeah, for sure.
Let's get to Plunk now, hopefully we got the
sound better. Plunk, let's hear a little
test. Hello, hello, test. You all good? good lovely thanks for having me on i appreciate it and i
suppose i what i wanted to say before was kind of prefaced by a lot of people just there in the last
few minutes and i kind of wanted to say as well for z loop um i it's i want to be in support of
you in that way as well where i completely get what you're saying it's we're in a capitalistic society where it's really important to have competition and you need to have
people competing for uh better allocation I think the difference is this is kind of people
in our now seeing they didn't really realize the 30 allocation before is essentially a grant and
I think it's a lot easier for uh people to kind of turn a blind eye to that or to not think too much on it
whereas now people are saying oh straightaway like five thousand going
to this grant straightaway there's no there's no weekly tiered system or
anything for this and I think a lot of the issue is as you said as well the
price is going lower as well and I even see participation getting lower as well
there's there a couple of my friends they don't use the Dow as much as they
did it before.
And oh, it's not worth it now because it's down on six cent, whereas when it was 20 cent, they were all over it.
So that has a bit of an issue as well. I think now it's not a standard now at this point, but I think it should be.
And it's something that I'm trying to push in the near future. I think if the apps, when they came on, if they just gave clear instructions of, or a clear plan,
excuse me, clear plan on what they want to spend this allocation on, I think that would make a
huge difference because it's not just a matter of, oh yeah, here's X amount of money, go do what you
want with it because we don't know what you're going to do with it. So I think if it's something
where if the apps are kind of, if their hand is forced to explain what they're going to
spend it on, even if it's just a rough idea, I just think it makes a huge difference as well.
And again, what was said before, when it comes to the no votes, I saw a lot of no votes with
comments, at least anyway, that was all just because they're against the grant system. And I
think if there's some sort of, I suppose, clarity or a little bit more transparency with these dApps
to say exactly what they're going to spend their money on, I think that will or a little bit more transparency with these DApps to say exactly
what they're gonna spend their money on,
I think that'll make a huge difference.
So I think Zilouk, if you do come on next time
for a proposal, maybe consider including that.
If it's not a thing where a proposal has been made
to enforce this, I think you should do it on your own
without being forced to do it
because that would make a huge difference to people's trust
because they're gonna see exactly
what your business plans are.
And as you said, it's very important
to have competitors on there.
I'm very happy to see competitors on there
because it lights a fire up a few DApps asses
if they have that.
I just think because now it's like a grand process,
people see it as money leaving.
They're a lot more likely to say no.
So I just kind of wanted to mention that.
It was kind of mentioned before as well,
but yeah, I think if there's a little more clarity
in what the spending would be on,
it would make a world of difference.
That's good.
That's perfect.
Claire, we will address that anyway.
We discussed with my team earlier today.
And what we're going to do, because our app is running
already not as in the apps, not connected to the DAO at the moment, but what we're going to do, because our app is running already, not as in the apps, not connected to the DAO at the moment, but what we're going to do, we're going to purchase some beta and we're going to organize some challenges within the app.
So people can just download the app from the stores and they can just compete and experience the first steps of how we want it to distribute better.
against the first steps of how we wanted to distribute better.
And so that will be also a demonstration
and prepare that another submission
into a couple of months, I would say.
I think that's really good, to be honest,
because like Mr. Willem has said before,
if you're on the DAO already and you've got some presence there,
it's so much easier for people to say to vote yes.
Like I know when Reuse came on,
I was very against it at the start because,
not because of the D app themselves,
but because I didn't know what they're gonna spend
their money on.
And any person that comes on can just say,
yes, I want the maximum amount for a brand 30K.
Why?
No reason, I just want it.
And so there's no real trust in that way.
So yeah, I just feel feel like if when you kind of
show that you've got a bit of skin in the game you're on you're in the dell already you're kind
of taking a bit of money out of your own pocket and this goes for any future d app that wants to
come on as well i think to show that you you want to be part of the ecosystem and from there on i
can guarantee you the team the the community will follow okay at least Well, at least you convinced me.
I was a bit skeptical.
We had that discussion.
Should we go?
Because when the ground team says you should consider
resubmitting and say, well, resubmitting in the same
condition will end to the same results.
But all your answers give us confidence
that we should try try the direction but obviously get all the
feedback preparation uh with good feedback from from your guys and so on preparation and so on
so that we we don't go for another figure well i think let's be honest we're human beings right i
think um getting disappointed is natural, right? But if,
if it matters, if what you're trying to do matters, um, and you keep pushing anyways,
I think people notice that, right? I think that stands out to people, uh, keeping and trying.
And, and, you know, uh, I think that that can go a long way. I think a lot of times in life, if you see maybe you fell short once and you keep trying,
it can work out in your favor, right?
So I would say don't get discouraged from this to the point where you just say, screw that.
You know, I think, you know, you got to keep pushing if this is something that you guys are believing in building, right?
I mean, you aren't stopping Z loop ain't stopping.
So, you know, this this grant proposal is something that you can certainly revisit down the road and maybe with a little more engagement with with the community and letting them get an idea of really what you guys are about.
I think that might work out really well for you.
Lib, you had your
hand up. You want to jump in there? Absolutely. Just a follow-up on that, but I think one of the
challenges with the DAO, and this is not specific to be chained, this is just the concept of the DAO in the decentralized sense.
There are inherent challenges, right? And we're sort of like at the very early stage
as to how this thing is supposed to work.
Because this really is a classic chicken and egg problem, right?
Right. So once once you get grants out to prospective entrepreneurs, what happens next?
Right. You're looking for ways to measure or gauge some sort of progress from from the respective teams.
progress from the respective teams.
And it becomes harder and harder to do that.
Even a grit written proposer is not a determinant for whether or not a business idea is going
to be successful or whether or not a business idea is not going to be a wrongful, right?
So this is really a classic chicken andand-neck problem, wherein it is incredibly difficult to gauge whether or not
an idea will become a business and eventually become
a successful business.
The real question then becomes, do you continue to give grants?
And again, the DAO is set up such that weekly we have the votes and we determine which apps
we're going to support. But just overall
structurally, this is always going to be a problem.
Right? Because it's really, really difficult to
sort of gauge which ideas are actually going to
turn into a business.
But then the other side of that is from the entrepreneur's perspective is,
well, I came to the DAO with a great idea.
I got put on the DAO, but I'm not being supported week after week
and I need the funds to actually continue to build my product,
but also try to get outreach for my product.
So they're really, you know, it's a difficult balance to have.
And Mr. Whiteman is going to touch on some of this earlier on,
where in DAOs, I mean, the entrepreneurs have to do a little bit more, but I don't think it's just limited to engagement in the community, that you really have to get to a point where you have a product that has some sort of traction and then leverage that traction as a way to engage the community, right?
Because at the end of the day, all of the concerns of Dalit
and folks that are out there not being open to voting
for every new entrepreneur that's trying to join the DAO
is from a perspective of, you know, we're not really seeing outcomes.
And that is very subjective, right?
Because what is outcome very early on, you know,
in a business life cycle?
So anyways, I am sort of repeating myself,
but I think this is really a challenge that Web3 will have to figure out.
I don't think it's going to get
solved anytime soon um um and and you know there are a whole host of challenges around
making this work if any of this makes perfect sense yeah no it definitely does and and um
you know obviously people can vote however they want,
right? I mean, that's the idea. And if you don't, if you see something that you don't believe in,
you have every right to not vote for it. Right. I think the part of it that's kind of, um,
discouraging and that I don't like about it is this idea of voting. No, just because you don't
like the process, right? Like it it's not even it's not even talking
about the actual idea that you're voting on but it's like well whether i like that or not i don't
like the actual grant system so i'm gonna say no and it's like well i mean come on man like that
if you don't like the idea and you want to vote no, that's fine. Right. Like that's, but to punish, to punish
a team or a D app or anything just based solely on whether you like the grant proposal or not,
I feel like it's kind of silly. Uh, and it's a cop out a bit. I don't know. I just, I don't like
it. I don't like that. Again, you can vote however the hell you want. I'm not saying you got to vote for anybody, but I mean, I don't, I don't necessarily know
if, if doing that and putting on that kind of show is what needs to happen for that to
get changed to the way that you want it.
Um, just feels, I don't know.
I don't, I don't like the verbiage that they use.
Um, anyone want to jump in on that?
I was getting, I suppose, yeah, just, oh, sorry.
Just as you're saying there, it's very important as well that those people that are leaving those no votes and saying, yeah, no, we don't agree with this grant process.
It's only new.
I'm on board with the grant process.
I think it's great.
If you don't like it, just make your proposal.
Let's put it on discourse. Leave it up there for a while see see what people have to say about
it and put it up i mean the grant process was approved by a majority decision for a reason
um i voted against it originally to be honest with you i i wasn't for it because i wanted the 30
allocation for all the apps to start off with now i think it's a great decision i think it's i think
it's a really good direction for the dow and i I'm not afraid to say I'm wrong or my opinion was wrong. It's just changed
since then. And I just feel like, as I just said, if you don't
agree with the grant system, make a proposal. Otherwise, sorry to sound blunt,
but just stop crying about it, you know?
Yeah, I don't know. Vote for what you
vote for teams that you believe in whether they're d
apps that are looking for allocation already on the dow or or new teams looking to get on
if you like the idea i say vote for it and if you don't then don't vote for it like that's that's
fine i just i don't i i don't like when people do these little performative things to, to make a point.
And it just,
it's,
I don't like it.
I don't like it,
but we can,
we can move on from that.
I've made my point.
if anyone else wants to jump in on that,
that's cool.
Or if,
if anyone has a,
like a question,
comment subject that they'd like to move on to for the next topic,
Whittleman,
Jordan,
Sauer,
Lib,
Hodel,
Puss, any of you you guys if there's anything
else you want to touch on uh jump in here and throw it out there
or yeah oh go ahead mr whittleman oh no i was just gonna say i i don't really have anything
else uh i feel like you know know, the conversation around the Renaissance tomorrow
is really good. I think we've got a lot of ground cover today and there's going to be
more ground cover tomorrow during the official V-Chain space. So I think that's really good.
Great conversation around the DAO and around the grant program. Like, obviously, I think it's not
perfect. It's just, it's just it's first i guess technically second
iteration so hopefully things just improve from there um but yeah i feel good i think it's been
a great conversation so i don't really have anything else to add um but yeah leave it leave
the floor open to anyone else that wants uh to talk about anything and specifically sounds like your dog needs to go, uh,
go poop.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You heard that,
huh?
Yeah.
Hey,
just so you guys know,
I've been talking about a cross chain,
thing for a little bit and well,
this week,
this week it starts folks.
I'm joining a group that is going to be starting to do cross-chain content
um looking to actually open this week with a video roundtable so looking forward to that we
hit last week on thursday we actually had a little um little powwow right kind of a talk about what
we want to do and everything and well it ended with me onboarding them to use the scoop up app.
They even use the vibing with V chain,
a promo code,
Whittleman.
I was like,
Oh shit,
I forgot.
I still have that promo code.
So yeah,
I think,
I think doing some cross chain stuff.
We have representatives from multiple chains,
Cardano XRP.
We have a couple other chain Hedera, we're looking at incorporating.
So stay tuned for some roundtable discussions from around Web3,
where we're talking about challenges we have here, developments,
things we're excited about, things that chains like VeChain are trying to solve and
other chains, right? I think this is discussion that we need. I think people have been looking
at us here in Web3 for too long, like just a bunch of nutjob generates that are playing with
fake internet money and cartoon pictures of monkeys. And I don't think they're real. They're aware of the kind of conversations we're having here. Right.
Similar. I'm trying to take what we do here in my spaces,
the kind of constructive dialogue we have and take it into other platforms
with a cross chain environment. So stay tuned for that. I'm really excited.
I'm really looking forward to it.
I think I'm going to be I'm really looking forward to it. I think
I'm going to be doing more video content moving forward. Maybe we even get a chance to do some,
some interviews with some of these D apps down the road, video, video interviews. Um, I know I
shout out to non-fungible down there. I see my brother designer. Uh, I, you know, I'm going to
be doing some interviews, uh, on behalf of them as well, well and on Fungible. So this would be good practice for me to get in and just take it, take things to a new platform.
Right. I think I think there's a lot we haven't tapped into as an ecosystem.
And we have a lot here that we can showcase on platforms that aren't X because we are limited here.
It's awesome. I love the spaces. I think it's great,
but there's a lot of people out there that,
that I think could really get down with what we're doing here that won't find
it because they ain't coming here. Right. So let's,
let's get out there and show them what we got going on and,
and see if we can tap into some,
some new ecosystems and new communities and bring them over here.
Let them see what the VBetterDAO is doing.
I'm excited.
I'm excited.
Yeah, I don't even know where the hell I want to go from there.
I don't even know how I got into that.
Oh, it was because of ScoopUp.
That's right.
So shout out to you.
Long way to say.
Shout out to you, Mr. Whittleman, for making a D app that I continue every time I tell people about it.
They're like, wait, what? I can get I can get rewarded for picking up dog shit.
That's such a problem in my area.
It really, really is a good example of not just one example, but of a lot of different D apps we have here that are offering great alternatives
for real problems out there. Yeah, I think that's the one thing about our app, like you said,
it's just like you hear from a lot of people that it is a real problem. So I think the problem
that we're solving for is makes a lot of sense. So now it's just about how we can reward people
in a very frictionless way, right? Where it then becomes
sort of their routine and they can earn from it. So that's our challenge. Yeah. And I got him all
the way up to the, uh, take a picture of your dog and he didn't have his dog with him. So he's like,
I'm going to have to go back to this, but everything up to that point was pretty,
pretty straightforward. I actually, I don't have a dog, so I haven't used it. Right. So I've never
actually seen the process. So to kind of walk him through it was pretty cool well polly if you want
to if you want to just kyd and just put like a photo being like you know i i know your wallet
so i'll just approve you if you want to give uh if you want to get approval and just take the
the app for a spin if you got like some plastic bags or dog bags or anything you know up to up to you
if i pick up my own poop does that will it count are you pooping outside me i could i mean if i
can get a word i got a big yard i got a lot of woods around me i mean i'm just saying i mean i
don't have a dog to practice on so i gotta i gotta figure out something how's the uh how's the dog
poop in your neighborhood it It's not bad. We
do have some dogs around, but a lot
of them stay in their yards.
I live in a
suburb area, so
a lot of people just kind of let their dogs go
in the backyard.
A lot of ones walking around the neighborhood.
It's not a big concern
for us, but I know
that is not a norm for a lot of places. So I'm kind of lucky.
Yeah. I mean, I live in a neighborhood and people have backyards and stuff, but still just a lot of, uh, a lot of poop out there in just the neighborhood walks, just like walking our dogs. We just see so much of it all the time. So.
bit all the time so yeah absolutely absolutely well and um listen guys this has been a good one
i know it's a little early but we've been going hard uh and i think we had a lot of great
conversation if anyone wants to come up uh now is your last chance because if not i think this
is a good opportunity to sort of start wrapping up and we'll give, we'll give the guys up here a chance to give their final thoughts.
Not too often.
We get to get to hear from Hottopus and Lib and Plunk.
Plunk,
have we even spoken with you?
This might be your first time hanging out with us.
It is.
Yeah.
I've been on listening a couple of times,
but I've never spoken.
I just had a bit of an opinion.
So I thought I'd let my mouth yap for a little bit.
Awesome.
Well, we appreciate any time we get a first-time speaker to come up.
It's always awesome.
And we appreciate those of you that are down there listening.
You never know what space is going to be the one that you're going to decide you want to come up and speak.
I remember when mine was four years ago now.
And look where I'm at now you never know you never you could find yourself up here embarrassing yourself for five hours every
week i mean dream big right yeah come up here uh have fun with us um and we got whiz coming back
up for the end of the show are you done nursing whiz yeah my my internet connection's been playing up again i
when i'm connected as speaker after a while it cuts out and i can't hear anyone and then i go
back down to listener and then i can hear you all but as soon as i'm on speaker and like say
i listen to it for a while and then it all goes silent and i think like i didn't know where to
jump in at first because like there, there's no one speaking.
And then I was like, oh, no, it's just I can't hear anyone.
Yep, Twitter just loves a little biatch.
Just loves it.
Oh, man.
But hopefully you got a chance to hear most of the conversation today.
Before we go into there, you know,
get your thoughts on the conversation here.
Yeah, I think, like I i say it's been again like you
said for it's been great to get um people to come up and chat about this i still think one of the
big things and we maybe touched on it a little bit before is with the allocations i still feel
it's weighted very heavily on the top three um daps and I think maybe that needs to be something that needs to be looked
at in the future a bit more of a fairer distribution among among the daps because it feels that you
know the top three or four are getting a very big chunk of the allocation where some of the
potentially the newer daps or even some of the smaller ones aren't getting um probably the
allocation they deserve i suppose that's that's my thought on it yeah be curious because uh bubbles
is was fourth last week it's moved up to four and i'm curious to know what yeah between them and
three i'm assuming i don't know if that's green commuter uh cleanify i'm not sure who's but i'd be
curious the gap between three and bubbles at four yeah because i think i'm just looking now on this
allocation here so you've got uh where's it one two three four so that's six now, I think. Bubbles was at six?
Yeah. Okay, so that must not be...
Oh, no, it's at seven.
Wait, I think you're looking at the current round.
You're talking about last round, right?
Oh, sorry, yeah, I'm on the current one.
Last round, Bubbles was fourth,
just right behind Mugshot.
So Bubbles was at 3.31% beating Cleanify,
and then the next one up is Mugshot at 16%, 16.5%.
So that's the reason for the gap there.
13% difference in voting, which dictates the allocation.
Right.
So, I mean, I don't know how you could make it more fair without completely changing it again.
I think it's just kind of,
it's at the point now where,
Hey,
if you want more allocation,
you just got to get more votes.
It's kind of,
yeah,
yeah.
I suppose,
yeah.
You know,
it is what it is.
And,
and I don't hate it as much as I thought I would, you know, but it would it would be nice to to see a bit more support for for the lower guy that is really working hard, just isn't quite getting that Paul, you've probably seen me make some noise about that as well on my Twitter timeline.
But Jake did.
So we have a dev developer chat on Telegram that all the people that are on the DAO, their devs are usually part of it.
And Jake said that if there's anything that any dApp wants retweeted or supported just to ping them there and they will like communicate that.
So I think that, you know, they've listened.
So I think there's still some you might need to take initiative, like advocate for your own DAP to get that message out there.
But the channels are open.
So I can talk to Bubbles about that.
Just let him if they didn't see that note that that channel are open. So I can talk to Bubbles about that, just letting them, if they didn't see that note,
that that channel is open.
Yeah, I think Bubbles is doing all right.
I just, that was the one that popped in my head
just because now they've moved up to four, right?
And they're not in that classic group
that we always think of.
So they're kind of that one outlier
from that group that's moving up.
It's interesting.
Yeah, I mean, drinking water out of a bottle,
right?
It's just like,
it's for everybody.
So there's no,
there's no limitation for how much they can grow.
Right.
And real,
real quick.
Cause I got Z loop.
I know you got to head out.
I wanted to give you a quick opportunity if you wanted to,
to give your final thoughts on the space and,
and bid you adieu.
Yeah.
That's my friend. Okay. Thanks. Uh, just wanted to comment your final thoughts on the space and bid you adieu. Yeah.
Final thoughts, my friend.
Okay, thanks.
Just wanted to comment on that.
Obviously, I wasn't there when that change of allocation,
but obviously we explored many apps
also to learn some mechanism and see what goes well,
what doesn't go well to anticipate
all the development and so on.
But with that location,
the risk is that some apps are going to disappear because I don't know if you,
I'm sure you all have experienced that,
but just this morning, we are Monday,
it was six hours after the snapshot and the allocation
and I bumped into an app, I don't remember the name, where they were already run out of allocation.
So basically, it's for the user experience, it's super frustrating.
You want to use the app and they say, well, you can use it.
But obviously, if you were usually wanted to use for a reward, which is the most motivation of the of the community you are frustrated so what happens if you are frustrated you're not going to
vote for that app and then if that app is not voted it's just a vicious circle well obviously
education will shrunk and and then they go in one stage they will stop it and then you lose the
grief the richness of the ecosystem,
which is the main strength of the ecosystem
that will attract more people
and benefit to the better valuation and so on.
So it's a dangerous game.
I don't know.
I have the background of that decision, obviously,
because I didn't dig enough in the past.
But as a newbie, I would say,
I thought, oh, well, it's maybe counterproductive.
Yeah, just to give you a real quick explanation,
it used to be that if you were on the DAO,
you automatically got a certain amount of allocation.
So you got a certain, I think it was like 30%.
So each D app would be getting like 20 or 30 000 better
every week and then you know like a month or two ago they changed it so now you get allocation
based on the voting you receive so and that i think the reason that that change was made is
because uh d apps that weren't really doing what people wanted them to be doing
were just getting a bunch of money, and they wanted to change that.
So to incentivize, hey, you've got to work harder for your allocation.
And the idea was, that was when they introduced the change in the grant process as well,
because the idea was that the new grant process would kind of counteract
the loss of potential rewards well rewards wasn't it
that was the idea right you're getting less allocation but if the if the community votes
for you you can get the grant which will be what that 30 percent sort of which actually i was gonna
ask mr wittleman is that part of your um know, the proposal with the grant is some of that money from the grant?
Will that be going to potential rewards or kind of keeping in the treasury for potential rewards if you get, you know, your allocation gets less than you would like?
Is that part of what you're thinking?
of what you're thinking yeah i mean for us we weren't planning on using it for rewards because
we're already kind of established on the dow versus like if we were just getting onto the dow
yeah without any allocation then i think we would reserve some of that for rewards so for us it's
not our prerogative to do that we're hoping to kind of use that money for other things to like
develop the app and further the app with marketing and development. But, you know, we haven't hit it. Like we have been over allocated the last few
weeks by like 10% ish. And so our reserves are kind of dwindling. So it could be where we could
use it for rewards, but we're hoping we don't have to so that's that's kind of from from our app standpoint
that's where we're at but i know for a lot of these apps that are just joining the dao and
have zero allocation it's a good way to like bootstrap their rewards in the beginning you
know because you get more interest into their yeah because that's the only problem i see there
because then you you know you could get that allocation you know you could use that for like say rewards allocation but then you haven't got the funds to push the marketing or
right do more with the data so is this it's kind of this difficult position is where do you know
you could if you push it all into your rewards then you've got no money to push the team or
further your project if you do it the other way you don't have any rewards yeah i know it is it is a conundrum i think there is you have to be very smart and strategic about
it you know yeah because it could be where it's like oh we're going to use all the grant money
for rewards and then eventually you'll get some sort of allocation and maybe you're rewarding
your team 10 or 20 from that and it gives you like a slow drip for some sort of funds to work on the app.
That's one thing, but it's like, how long will that last? Right.
It's all about it's,
you have to figure things out really quick and you have to have a good
business plan and look at other like ways to make revenue.
So it's, it's interesting. I will say
I'm not jealous
of any dApps coming onto the DAO now.
They all have their work cut out
for them, and it's not like they're making
money hand over
fist. It's just like
they're all just basically trying
to survive, and it's very, very hard.
All right. Thanks.
Thanks. You're right. I need to, I will go, I will go. My, my last,
my last word is thanks for your feedback. Uh, I would just say it is in the
context, uh, it was a bit emotional today. Um, and last night, uh. So all the feedbacks give good motivation to consider some next steps and so on.
So we will do homework and so on and come back.
Sounds great.
Yeah.
And reach out to us when you guys are ready.
And we'll have you right back on here to talk Z loop and get ready for, for maybe a iteration of grant proposal number two.
Yep, absolutely. Awesome. We appreciate you, Eric. You have a good night.
Thanks everyone. Talk to you soon, man.
Let's let's go to Plunk cause he had his hand up and he might've had a comment
for Z loop on, on Z loops way out, but Plunk, what, what do you got, man?
Yeah, actually it wasn't for Zloop specifically. It was more so just based on what Wiz said before,
which was basically just kind of, I suppose, wishing that the apps lower down kind of got a bit more allocation.
And that was something that I was very worried about when this grant proposal was,
or when the 30% allocation proposal was being removed, I suppose.
or when the 30% allocation proposal was being removed, I suppose.
And my whole entire narrative around that was sleeper votes, sleeper votes.
It's all going to be just the top three or four getting the same votes all the time.
But Reheat actually did a really nice little Excel sheet
that showed a lot of the activity within Be Better Now.
And a lot of the voters that were there giving out
votes were active members or they had they had been active in the last two
months or they've changed their votes around those times so I was happily
proven wrong in that regard and I feel like what comes down to now at this
point is the top few I'd say the top three four D apps are really really
polished they look really nice and I think that's something that whether I know there's some daps on i'm not going to name any of them but you can go on to that and you
it looks like it's something that was made in 2000 you know it's it's it's not intuitive whereas if
it's someone that's coming on the dow or if it's a d app that's on the down now if their d app looks
like an actual app that someone can have on their phone i i think to be honest mongshot is a stellar
example of this it looks like it should be its, Mugshot is a stellar example of this.
It looks like it should be its own app and it is now,
but even before it was its own app,
it was on there and it looked fresh,
it looked clean, it had little animations.
But some of the DApps now that are on,
I just find that the UI is just really counterintuitive
and I feel like it can really just set a DApp back.
Obviously for the likes of us that are tuning in now we're invested in the
DAO and we're gonna use the dApps regardless but I know for a fact if
someone was coming on to the DAO and they were trying to use one of the dApps
that maybe is a little bit outdated looking it's they're not gonna stick to
it because we're humans we like flashy things we like things that look nice and
that's part of the journey as well.
So there's not many people listening here in terms of DApps right now,
but I really would encourage people to just put a bit more effort into how it looks
because that is the first thing that pops out.
If that's sorted, then people will actually care to figure out what's going on.
But yeah, that's kind of all I really wanted to say on that regard.
Yeah, that's kind of all I really wanted to say on that regard. Yeah, that's quite interesting.
I hadn't seen that thing that Reheat shouted after that,
and I'll look for that one, because that was my worry,
that, like, say, these sleeper votes or the ones that are kind of the,
you know, vote manipulation and all that sort of stuff,
that was my worry with some of this,
which I'm sure there might still be
potentially some things going on but it's good to know that it is a bit more like you say it's
it seems like it's a bit fairer than thinking that it's all uh doom and gloom i suppose
yeah for sure i think um you know there's different approaches that teams have, right?
Some are more focused on the experience than it is the look.
And, you know, some are better at those things than others.
I think the more polished a product you can make, the better in the long term, right?
If you really want to reach that next level.
And I think, I was going to say, Paul, if you think about the one that's just come out recently the byb build your body that um i don't know if you've tried it yet um but that does look
it looks slick the ui is good obviously it's being pushed a lot from the foundation point of
view with it being on you know the ufc advert and all this sort of stuff so that's one that
you would think would be pushing up into
those top slots pretty quickly yeah it'll get up there for sure i don't think they i don't think
they're going to be concerned about that it's just a matter of uh more more people seeing it and
starting to utilize it i haven't yet uh that requires exercise and uh I'm not doing that these days.
Too much other stuff going on.
Not an excuse, just is what it is.
But everyone that I've seen that have used it have seen to really enjoy it and like it.
So pretty cool.
Yeah, it's cool.
It is cool.
Yeah.
Again, so we are getting ready to wrap up this thing.
We started a little early and I got,
got some things I got to do.
So we're going to start wrapping up here.
If any of you guys down there wanted to come up at Connor,
I know you had to drop.
I'm sure he's probably in like a meeting or something.
So this might be perfect timing.
Might be wrapping up a call,
able to come up here and chit chat with us.
But if any of you guys want to come up,
I haven't had a chance to shout out any of the room.
The room's small enough now.
So I appreciate Rob the Destroyer for hanging out with us.
Smoked Salmon.
We got a Smoked Salmon in the house.
I like seafood.
Dr. Patrick Wright.
We got Lego.
Lego.
David.
Hottopus, of course.
Thank you for coming up and hanging out with us, buddy.
We appreciate you.
CSP.
Easy Trader. We got CoinFalcon
We've got EarthPath
Some guy named Chud is down there
Good to see him
Hopefully he's well
Gnomey hanging out with us with that gnome hat
TypeDangerous, thanks for coming up, BlackWealthFirst
Appreciate you for joining
Of course, Connor, Alijon, C sick, Liam, Michael.
We got a bunch of legends, Austin, FOMO, FUD star, Asher land.
Good to see you brother. Uh,
still waiting for the invite to the rat first discord.
I don't know what's up with that. FUBAR. Good to see you brother.
Hopefully you are good. Nick E designer.
Look forward to the tomorrow space, the non-fungible book club and
of course our space wednesday night the v chain cafe hopefully we'll be able to get the non-fungible
guys in there i've been crazy busy uh alex absolute legend the guy's got a sagas tattoo
was the guy has a sagas tattoo an absolute legend among legends. Appreciate you, my friend.
420 Vet and
another legend, Hassan, hanging
out with us. Appreciate all you
guys for hanging out. Hopefully you've enjoyed this
chat. This has been a good one.
Really enjoyed getting a chance to hang out with Jake.
Even Vinit came
up and talked with us, which was cool.
So, appreciate them
and King Apollo been hanging out with us as well. Good so appreciate them and uh uh king apollo been
hanging out with us as well good to see you brother hopefully you're doing well uh and
everything's been going good for you dude all right let's go through we're gonna give our our
speakers a chance for final thoughts uh last chance if anyone wants to come up and join and
give theirs uh let's start with plonk first time up here. Been a listener, but first time getting you up here.
Popped that cherry.
Brought a lot of good stuff, a lot of good perspectives, Plunk.
Appreciate you for joining us.
And now is your chance for your first time ever.
Final thoughts and vibe with VeChain.
But let's go, man.
all right I suppose I gotta make something up here because I wasn't prepared for this
All right.
I suppose I got to make something up here because I wasn't prepared for this.
but basically I just want to say thanks for starting this uh this the space you've been
doing it for a while as you were saying I didn't realize how long you're doing it for
you've polished it really really well you've got a great voice for it you've got a great
um presenter uh vibe to you as well so appreciate you very much for uh for allowing me on. A year and a half now, I think, Wiz, right?
You started in the end of October in 2023.
I've nearly made at least half the places I've turned up for.
I think we're at about half now have featured.
Oh, this is a big day.
He's finally back to 50%. But no, it was end of October, 2023, after I went to NFT XLV and was hanging out with
that crazy people, Connor and Chud and all them down there.
And we came back and started this thing up.
So it's been a year and a half.
It's been a lot of fun.
I think I've been doing non-fungible book club space cafes
for about a year now as well so yeah getting my hours in and we're only going to be adding more
um but appreciate you plunk for joining hanging out with us kind words and i look forward to
having you up for the conversations again in the future my friend let's get to Jordan Sauer comes up and he may he's economical.
He's just throwing out questions.
Rapid fire, like getting Jake all on his toes.
I love the approach, Jordan.
Keeping Jake honest, keeping him on his toes.
Love it.
Final thoughts from you as we wrap this thing up, my friend.
up, my friend. I really liked the talk about some sort of platform to introduce the new dApps.
I think a lot of the time by the dApps, by the time the dApps hit the voting stage,
I mean, there's just not enough time for the dApp to introduce themselves and explain what they're all about.
I mean, there's only a small number of us that are real hardcore dgens and, you know, on X all day long.
I mean, I'm on X way too much, and I still run across new dApps a week after they announced that they're coming out, you know?
And I see like, what the hell is this?
You know, like, and I check their account and it's, you know, they've had posts for a few weeks sometimes.
So yeah, it would be great to have some sort of,
I hate using the word centralized, but like some more centralized resources or, I mean, you do the spaces, Polly, and that's great.
Those are wonderful, too.
I really like when they're like time-stamped and stuff, when you're able to do that, because then people can, you know, go back and if they're looking for specific information,
you know, they don't have to, you know, like skip through a five-hour space or whatever.
So yeah, the spaces are great, but I don't know like a weekly post about um upcoming daps and just like a impartial summary of what they're about or something um just to give them a little more
exposure i mean they don't have to be for or against it, but, you know, just like, this is what it is. A random thought, too,
I was thinking it would be wonderful if the foundation started up like a VBetterDAO specific
X account. And I imagine at times for them it must be difficult, too, to divide the content between DAO information and VeChain information.
And if we had a DAO-specific account that is backed by the Foundation, or, I don't know, maybe this isn't even a possible proposal thing.
You could select a group of people to run it.
I don't know how it would work.
But it would be great to have some sort of centralized X account
specific for DAO information and onboarding, that sort of thing.
That sort of thing. Even when I'm trying to onboard people, I have to pull up some thread that somebody has written or just refer them to a bunch of random, like, check out this DAP and this DAP and this DAP.
Even when I'm trying to onboard people,
And drop them with eight different DAP accounts to check out, which when I'm presented with that much information, I don't go through it all.
Yeah, just random thoughts.
But yeah, I really like the idea of facilitating the onboarding to the community.
And it's not a hard thing to do if you know how to do it, but if you don't, then it really is hard. So easy thing for people in the know to help out with, and I think it would go a long ways.
It was awesome to have Drake in here and Vineet. He's awesome. If you're listening back to this, thank you for coming.
I'm going to have to paraphrase it, but I think it's a Bruce Lee quote where he said, again, I'm paraphrasing here, a simple man can say a
simple thing in a complicated way.
I don't know.
A simple man can say a million things in a few.
A smart man can say a complicated thing in a simple way.
Like, Ben, he's very, very intelligent, but he's very good at explaining things.
And that doesn't always go together. So I really appreciate when he's in spaces and is able to explain some of these more dense topics, complicated topics, in a way that non-technical people like myself can understand clearly.
That's all I got. Have a wonderful day, and I will probably catch some of you in the space tomorrow.
Hell yeah, Jordan.
Well said.
Well said.
We had a lot of great conversations and great guests today.
Always a pleasure having them on.
To your point about onboarding material for the DAO, I think I'm going to try and offer that,
especially with this cross-chain thing.
If I can get me in this cross-chain space and video showcasing some of the
VBetterDAO stuff we have going on and actually like walking them through.
stuff we have going on and actually like walking them through.
I think we have a, you know, those of us that are in here,
we have a rare opportunity because we understand so many of these D apps
ourselves that it's easier for us to go through.
I think there's a, I don't,
I think the foundation is so much on their plates that I don't,
I don't know if they necessarily have the time to do some of the stuff.
And it's unfortunate because you'd like to think they could.
But I just,
it seems they're very stretched thin with a lot of things going on.
And there's an opportunity there for us to actually be that,
be that bringer to people out there. And it it's not it doesn't have to be oh my god
it's a nuisance no it can be an opportunity right to to build something of your own a platform that
people go to and now all of a sudden people are looking at you and you've created something out
of that right i mean that's kind of how i try to look at what I'm doing here. I saw an opportunity. I took it. And now it's it's going somewhere. I'd like to think. And I think there's there's going to be those opportunities for a lot of us in here. If if you're up for the challenge and you want to do something, I think showcasing the apps is is something that if if you're good at it, you could you could you could could do well You know and a shout out to the
Ambassadors you know I see
Ludo down there and you know
We got a bunch of them in here
That are making content
And doing stuff trying to
Push the ecosystem and
Help grow all of our bags collectively
Right we all
Can play a part in that so
I think The content will come, Jordan.
It's just going to be who makes it.
And hey, the opportunity is there, folks.
Just saying, the opportunity is there.
I'm going to take the opportunity to kick it over to Mr. Whittleman.
Mr. Whittleman, this has been a fun one.
Really appreciate you for reaching out about this.
I know we were talking about doing it on the node chat for a while,
and finally it felt like the right time to do it,
especially with the stuff that we got going on coming up
and all the wackiness that's happening here.
Really appreciate you reaching out, man.
It's been a good one.
And final thoughts from you as we wrap this thing up.
Yeah, just, you know, it's been a good one and uh final thoughts from you as we wrap this thing up uh yeah just you know it's been a great conversation thanks for hosting the space as always paulie just for giving us a place to all congregate and uh kind of to i think what jordan
was talking on without the neat just like it just made me think of how awesome uh i think one of the
awesome and unique things about v chain is that
it does feel kind of like a smaller community um and i just want to thank everyone here for showing
up and being involved like you know like i think this is what's really important and kind of what
makes v chain unique right is because we are small and as we grow um we're helping it grow
um i was even thinking like
I guess when you're talking about ambassadors and sort of the the cross-chain content that you're
going to be making in the future poly because I know a lot of ambassadors right now they make
their posts right but I feel like a lot of it's just kind of going to the same people like people
that are already familiar with vchain what if there was like an ambassador push to really go outside
and really try to go across chain and just like, because, you know, I feel like it's a little bit
of a, what do you call it, like an echo chamber with some of the posts, just because it's just
like, you know, we're all V-Fam already, right? We need to be kind of going out to the masses
more. And I wonder if there's a way to kind of get all the ambassadors uh or do some sort
of challenge for the ambassadors to to kind of get that content more out there out of their out of
their echo chambers or kind of circles so um that was just a quick uh thought i had but yeah i mean
how awesome is it to have like you know the foundation like in these spaces you're talking
with them you're engaging with them um to have something like a dow where you have people from you know like from node holders to
community members to nft dgens to you know whatever right um it just kind of gives us a
focus which i think is really unique and to jordan's point like maybe it does need to kind
of be spinned off into like a completely separate identity.
And given the attention it deserves that way, right?
So all to say, I think VChain has been around for a long time.
There's some really exciting things on the horizon starting tomorrow.
If you're just joining this chat, you know, the Stargate platform is live tomorrow
and you can start migrating
your old node whether economic or uh or x node or if you want to put your vet into a new node i think those are going to be available tomorrow as well and so it really opens the door at lower price
points for people right because i think the smallest node that you can get is 10 000 bet
um so i think we're going to see a lot more nodes joining up which is cool and then hopefully those price points for people, right? Because I think the smallest node that you can get is 10,000 VET.
So I think we're going to see a lot more nodes joining up,
which is cool.
And then hopefully those nodes also get a say and stake into the DAO in terms of endorsement points.
So, yeah, I think I'm excited to be here.
Really love the VFAM.
Really love the community we've created.
And let's just keep a good thing going.
Yeah, that's all I got to say.
Well said. Absolutely. And it is an exciting time we have a lot of stuff to be looking forward to um i mean things that
not just you know hayabusa the renaissance the dow know uh everything i mean non-fungible book
club the stuff they're building if you aren't following their story They're going to be making some huge things
Happen Connor
Just out there flipping tables everywhere
I know my
Project sagas we're working
On some cool stuff we're really excited
About Fubar's always got
His hand in everybody's cookie jars
E I mean there's
A lot of cool stuff happening right now
So to be In the middle of it is really exciting.
And to your point, Mr. Whittleman, about the cross-chain thing,
I think that's my mindset right now is like we've been in this echo chamber, right?
And it doesn't really go anywhere.
And it's like how can we get out of that and have good constructive dialogue where
we're also showcasing the cool things we have going on here and that's kind of my mission right
let's have good dialogue about web 3 but also find a way to showcase you know our chains our brands
you know the things we have in a more cross chain environment that, that is going to hit more ears and eyeballs and let people say, wow, Hey,
you know, I love my chain,
but that's actually a pretty cool thing you got over there too. Oh,
I can take a picture of my mug or take a picture of my dog's poop when I pick
it up. Yeah. You know what? I can get on board with that.
So we do need to get out there and that's what I'm hoping to do.
So looking forward to seeing how this all comes together.
And maybe I'm planning on going to Rare Revo this year.
Connor, I see you down there.
I am going.
Actually, I think I got my ticket paid for by, well, I'm not going to say it,
but I'm getting sponsored apparently.
Shout out to FUBAR.
We're making things happen.
We might even do some adventures of
poly and foo in vegas for rare evo who knows but also we'll be going for the cross chain uh thing
i'm involved in so i gotta get you i gotta get you some scoop up swag before you go to rare evo
oh absolutely absolutely i will go i'll be out there with my scoop up gear. You guys need me to wear any of your swag.
Let me know.
Let me know.
I'll make things happen.
But we're going to make it happen.
Hell yeah.
Official sponsor of Iowa V-Chain, scoop up.
Yeah.
And Jordan, we're going to connect out there because I know you got your ticket.
You're still going, Jordan?
Yep.
I will be there.
Let's go, alright
Alright, well one person who's unfortunately
Not going to be out there
And that's my co-host, Wiz
Wiz, I'm sorry
You won't make it
Maybe we could get you out there, who knows
I mean, the wife, you think she'd let you do it
You think your wife would even let you go
Probably not this year
we'll get you we'll get you out here at some point when this thing all when all this blows
up and we're we're crypto millionaires uh we'll we'll get you on the circuit we'll get the wife
coming traveling i definitely need to do the vegas because the wife when she was younger she's been
to vegas but i've never been so i think i need to i need to experience it i've just got to go when it's not hot though i'm not very good with the heat so yeah when's it
nice and cool three week window in december i think the window but uh either way man it's been
fun um good space and final thoughts of you as we get ready to wrap this up and actually let you go
to bed at a reasonable time this week it's nice yeah no before before midnight for me so that's a that's a definitely
a bonus um i think just again thanking everyone for for coming on and chatting to us um i think
again like what everyone's saying i think it is a really exciting time still and there is
lots of cool stuff happening um it's tomorrow i'm looking forward to seeing how that all plays out
as well um i think you know there's a lot of positive stuff that's being still pushed for
for v chain and everything we're doing with the the dow and so just just keep going really um
excited to see the next few weeks and months absolutely And shout out to Mr. Whittleman
And the nodes
We hit I think 88 listeners
At one point today
This space is jam packed
I'm curious when I close this thing
And see what the listener account
Ended up being
It's going to be right up there
Clearly this is a topic that people are interested in
And excited about
And wanting to learn more about.
So a reminder, tomorrow we have a V-Chain official space with Sonny Liu and a whole cast of characters.
I think it's going to be around noontime for us on the East Coast in the U.S.
So based on where you're at, you can kind of figure out what that means for you.
So keep an eye on that.
Of course, not too long after that wraps up, we should have the non-fungible book club space.
I don't know if those guys will be planning on maybe pushing back a little bit to follow it or if they're going to go over.
Not sure.
Designer, I don't know what you guys got going on with that, if that's even crossed your table.
But we'll see. Keep your eyes peeled for the non-fungible space as well
And then of course
V-Chain Cafe Wednesday night
Wiz you came unmuted
You got something to say?
No I just didn't mute myself again
Just lazy
Absolutely amateur around here
I appreciate you brother You enjoy here. I appreciate you, brother.
You enjoy your night and we
appreciate you, man.
This has been good, guys. So
a reminder, moving forward
for the next handful
of weeks, we are going
to be bringing on
grant recipient.
Well, what's the words
I'm going to use?
Teams that are going for grants.
They will be joining us in the coming weeks.
Next week, we will have better transit coming back.
We're going to try and get our green back because they're also going to be up for next week.
And Merlin was, wow, that was a heck of a conversation with Merlin.
So looking forward to having him back and getting them a chance as their week starts for their grant proposal.
We'll have more teams,
maybe one or two each week for the next month until I'm gone to rare,
evil in Vegas.
So we're going to jam pack a month of a month of V better doubt grant
proposals.
So get ready.
We will be doing it again soon.
You guys have a great week and we'll see you right back here.
Same time,
same place.
I'll probably go.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Same time.
Same time.
Three o'clock.
All right.
We out guys.
Take care.
Adios.
Bon voyage.
Cheerio. Cheerio.
Cheerio, Gabba.
Alex has a sagas tattoo. Thank you.
