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WAGMI Spaces: Can AI Create the Next Global IP
Recorded: Sept. 18, 2025 Duration: 1:07:28Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, industry leaders explored the transformative potential of AI in creating new intellectual properties, the significance of strategic partnerships, and the growing trend of community-driven fundraising in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. GM, my friends, welcome to another Wagmehub space.
And the title of today's topic is From Disney to Dodge, Can AI Create the Next Global IP?
create the next global IP.
While we wait for listeners to come in
and our speakers to come on stage,
I'd like to ask a favor.
Please go down to the reply section,
like, retweet, bookmark this space if you can,
and reply with a wag me.
And this will really help push this space
in front of more people.
And as usual, the conversation is always top-notch.
And so I don't think you'll want your friends and family to miss out on the conversation.
While we wait for the guests to come on stage,
let me just play some K-pop music that everybody seems to enjoy while we wait. I was a ghost, I was alone, huh?
Don't watchin', huh?
It's okay.
Given the throne, I didn't know, huh?
To believe I was a queen that I meant to fake.
I lived two lives, tried to take both sides, but I couldn't find my old place.
I caught a cat, let's out, cause I got to while, but now I'm tired and pain.
But that's your stage.
I'm done hiding, now I'm sure like I'm gonna be.
We dream and hard we can't go for now, I believe. like
I'm going to go, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, Wait a solo to break these walls down To wake up and feel like me
Put these patterns all in the past now
And finally live like the girl they all see
No more hiding, I'll be shining
Like I'm born to be.
Cause we are heartless, voices straight.
We're doing it.
We're doing it.
We're doing it.
We're doing it.
We're doing it.
We're doing it.
We're doing it.
We're doing it.
We're doing it. We're doing it. We're doing it. We're doing it. We're doing it. You don't get it with love, you gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gotta be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be, gonna be so
gm ladies and gentlemen welcome to to another Wag Me Spaces.
I apologize if I sound a bit off and my voice is extra sexy today.
It's because I am down with the flu and been struggling with chills the whole freaking day.
It's not fun, folks. You don't want this for your worst enemies.
Anyway, my vocal cords are still working.
And so I'm looking forward to this conversation
with all the great speakers that we have on stage.
Today, we are here to talk about the collision of AI, IP, and Web3.
And ask the big question, right?
Will the next Disney or Marvel be born on chain?
And we're increasingly seeing signs of this.
Before we get into the conversation,
let me just quickly introduce the speaker panel.
And I will be reading from their bios here.
We have Andrew Sanders, CXX,
previous CMO at Arbitrum,
Scale, Amazon,
HQ, Global Head,
CAA, Exec.
That's a lot of
acronyms in that bio.
That must be a very important person.
Next, we have
Smoke, CEO,
Own the Dodge.
Official, Kokoro.
Chapter President, Stand with Crypto.
BICDAO.
Elon, RWA.
DodgeOS.
PizzaDAO.
Degen.
Token, Base.
The most popular meme token on Base.
Oh, I love this.
Simple and straightforward.
Anton from SleeperG gotchi he is the founder
previously from duolingo and harvard business school and we will have more speakers come up
on stage uh in a bit but i guess uh we shall start with uh whoever we have have on the stage. And so let's get into the first segment of the day,
which revolves around the IP revolution
from Disney to Dodge.
And I'm going to throw this question first
to my co-host Anton.
And of course, guys,
if my introduction wasn't good enough,
you can always plug your role and
your company in your take later on as well that is more than welcome and the conversation in this
stage is more or less free-flowing you don't have to raise your hand if you don't want to
just unmute and chime in do it as politely as you can.
That will be more than welcome.
You can also give an alternative take
or something like that,
which will be more than welcome.
I know last week I tried to chime in,
but my jaw was mostly on the ground
because of all the alpha,
all the information that really blew my mind and
i'm sure today's space will be uh pretty much uh the same and so the first question i'd like to
throw to my co-host anton uh why do some ips become timeless like disney pokemon or while others say what do you think my bro yeah yeah um so i have your question um
what makes an id timeless right because some things become bad or there's a lot of
over years you know like we need babies like a lot of like cartoons as well recently so what makes them timeless i think it's um i think it's usually at least
for the programs it's uh it takes a lot of time to build to build a brand you know um pokemon
didn't you know scale up overnight they started in japan and then they started hitting escape
velocity they started you know moving into the us quite strategically similar to like hello pd
they started moving into the US quite strategically.
Similar to like LPD, right?
They started in Japan, but only after two years.
I think they started in 1974, and actually in 1976,
they started going into the US quite strategically,
and with the West Coast first before they then expanded into the border market.
So a lot of those brands, you know, we think of them as just, you know,
as lighting the bottle, but really they take a long time to build and really grow the community from and the fans from a very good base.
And a lot of the stuff, but you still need like an element in the beginning, right, to get a little started.
I think with Mickey Mouse, this was the first kind of animated cartoon that got really popular with Pokemon that was a huge collectible TCG and a
TV show link which that kind of thing is in a game as well in the beginning. So a lot of those things
are actually started with a lightning as a lightning in the bottle and even with the web
right now with the budget construct collections right 2021 just the best time for that.
trying to construct collections right 2021 just the best time for that um bond which is i would
say the largest need for the salon also started as a community coin and a price of the ftx so you
need this catalyzing movement in the very beginning to to get across and once you have this catalyzer
you just need to continue to keep building and expanding because you know those entities take years to develop and three years to develop yeah i agree it takes years for um an ip or meme to stick and uh man you you really
brought back old memories of my childhood uh with tamagotchi i think uh a lot of the young people
today if you ask them like hey you know what the tamagotchi is they think a lot of the young people today, if you ask them like, hey, you know what
a Tamagotchi is? They'll be like, okay, Boomer. No idea what that is. We only use ChatGPT.
And so I want to throw this same question to Andrew. And it's the same question of why do some
IPs become timeless while others fade away?
What do you think, Andrew?
Yeah, so, I mean, just for background, I actually was a Hollywood guy for about 15 years.
I worked at the number one talent agency in the world.
And a lot of what I was doing was actually working with, you know, IP coming from different directions.
So, like, our team, for example, we worked with Mattel, right?
So, like, we were part of the team that brought Transformers from, you know, toy to the big screen and obviously other kind of Mattel brands.
I think it depends.
I mean, what I've seen over the years is different things come from different places.
Like I'll tell you, as someone that's worked with Disney many times, you know, that company is just very, very protective over their IP.
Many times, you know, that company is just very, very protective over their IP.
I mean, they put a pretty insane amount of time into creating and they really don't let anyone touch it or change it.
And I know on the video game side, you know, Nintendo is a little bit of the same way.
I think, you know, kind of kind of my take just from from what I've seen over the years is I think at the end of the day, part of it is is that it's relatable and it's universal.
Right. So if you think about,
you know, obviously the characters can be unique and different, the storylines can be modern, but at the end of the day, like if the plot lines are about, you know, human truths or universal
truths, right? So just giving you, you know, dumb examples, like if you think of some of the kids
cartoons, you know, the power of friendship, the power of kindness, you know, all these things, I think are, you know, things that we grow up with as, you know, life lessons or, you know,
ways to kind of live our lives. And I think at the end of the day, you know, when you tap into
something that's, you know, familiar with someone or nostalgic with someone or just that they
already have some sort of connection with, you know, on a deeper level, I think that's part of
what makes it timeless. And, you know, especially like if you look at like examples like Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles, you know, that's a that's IP that's kind of reinvented itself, I would say no less than like
five or six times, right. And even though like animation styles may change, or it might be live
action, or, you know, the toy manufacturer might change. I mean, a lot of at the end of the day, like the universal truth is still there is it's like the power of friendship. And, you know, the toy manufacturer might change. I mean, a lot of, at the end of the day,
like the universal truth that's still there is it's like the power of friendship and, you know,
what can you do when you work together, right? And these are just universal things that apply.
And last thing I'll say is just, you know, what I noticed in entertainment over the years was,
you know, certain types of IP and genres also tend to travel better internationally. Like
great example, you know, the reason why things like Transformers did so well abroad was because they're action movies and there's
limited dialogue, right? And so at the end of the day, everyone can understand two giant robots
battling and fighting with each other. Whereas, you know, with comedy, for example, what we found
was it doesn't travel well, right? Because in every country, you know, there's different comedic
sensibilities. People find different things funny. And funny and so you know taking something that's popular in germany and trying to
bring it to america or china like not always going to work so um so i i guess i i guess i'd kind of
point back to like you know human truth kind of shared experiences um things like that you know
yeah that makes a lot of sense um i know that uh i'm glad that you brought up the example of
transformers i know that they were even bigger in china than uh compared to the rest of the world
yeah when when they came out with that series um and so i think there's something there like
if people can relate to the ip or at least they can understand it uh then uh there's a higher
chance that it'll stick.
It's another, like, I'll tell you, because I've worked with Marvel a ton over the years,
you know, very simply, like, Stan Lee was my client years ago, right? And I remember talking
to Stan about this at one point, and it was so simple. It's like, you know, if you think about
Marvel at the end of the day, it's all about the battle of good versus evil, right? And everybody
understands this notion of good versus evil. And, you know, you want the good guy to win,
and you aspire to be the good guy. And, you know, the good guy gets all the fame in the end. So I
think, again, like part of the reason Marvel did so well internationally was, you know, obviously
established IP that's been around for decades, right? You have, you know, parents introducing
their children, and you have folks, you know, wanting to see things again that they grew
up with, but also this notion of what's the purpose of a superhero to battle evil. It's
just something that everyone can relate to no matter where you're from or what your upbringing
was. Yeah. And nobody, a lot of, like when I see big robots huge trucks man i just get so excited
and so i think this is probably a universal thing for yeah totally it's even like i'll give you
something funny like when i was um you know like i'm in my 40s right so i grew up with i loved
transformers as a kid um and then i have you know i have a toddler who's now into transformers right
but it's so simple it's like if you think you know, and this isn't just a boy thing, when you think
about little kids, like a lot of little kids like cars and trucks, right. It's like one of the first
things they like. Right. And then they may also like robots or action heroes. And so again, if
you're taking two things that they like, and then you're like, let's just combine them together.
And, um, you know, I like, hopefully I'm not going to botch these names, but you know, I've noticed like, we're getting
obviously much more content from, um, from international regions now in America, but like,
there's one show that I've watched animated show where, you know, it's, um, it's dinos that
transform into robots. And there's another one where it's, uh, like safety vehicles that transform
into robots. And so again, these are all just very relatable
because these are things that kids like,
no matter where they're from.
Yeah, and you can see nowadays,
there is a trend for K-pop stuff.
And this K-pop Hunter thing really took over my timeline.
Even my wife is talking about it like hey we should watch it
together it started yeah it started a while ago because you know i'm in la and we have the largest
korea town outside of korea here so i have a lot of you know korean friends but um but it's
interesting like i remember going back to um like far east movement or even like jabbawockees one of
my buddies was is in the dance group jabbawockeez like there was always um a little bit of crossover happening and i think um you know what i noticed was obviously
like i would say squid game is kind of what brought like korean entertainment you know
stateside in a big way but even prior to that i think there was definitely um definitely an uptick
in um in in uh cinema and television i think when you look at things like Crunchyroll
and some of these streaming services that were coming out,
or even just the internet,
it's like these younger generations had access to that content
in a way that they didn't used to.
And I hate to say it, this is part of why I left Hollywood,
was Hollywood, at least in America,
it really shifted from being about art and entertainment
to just business, right?
How do we guarantee this film or TV show is going to make money? shifted from being about kind of art and entertainment to just business, right? Like,
how do we guarantee this film or TV show is going to make money? And so instead of, you know,
inventing new concepts and trying new things, like, and I'll give you examples, go back in time,
like, you know, Short Circuit, Lost, you know, these were all like very innovative ideas,
gremlins, right? A lot of those movies, in my opinion, would never get made today, right? Because
the way Hollywood works now is they go, okay, Transformers 3 did this number.
What can Transformers 4 do?
Should we do it?
Or if you're another studio that doesn't have Transformers, you're like, let's create Pacific Rim that looks and feels like Transformers.
And maybe it'll do 90% the revenue of Transformers.
And so the only folks that are really, in my opinion, doing innovative, creative things now are like a24 neon a couple of these like indie studios and so
i i think also in general what i've noticed is you get much more let's call it like innovative
non-traditional thinking coming from other countries like like squid game if that had
been an american show that concept never would have sold in America. No way. Yeah.
Yeah, I guess it's like a combination of different elements. And I want to bring other speakers into this conversation. Smokey, I'm going to call upon you next
for this question. What advantages does on-chain culture have over traditional IP?
have over traditional IP.
We've seen memes really take off.
We've seen examples of NFT projects
go into the mainstream.
And so do we have an advantage
over traditional IP
or is it pretty much the same?
What do you think, Smoke?
I think we have a definite advantage
for many different reasons. I think that we're building
the new on-chain economy and the new financial structure. And I think that there's a lot more
ability to be creative without gatekeepers in crypto and in blockchain. And because of that,
I think there's been an explosion of creativity that everyone is watching. I think the entirety
of Hollywood and the media
are watching what we're doing in this space right now, and I've seen them at various events
showing up. And I think a lot of good points were just made about why this happened, how this
happened. And I think there's been an obsession with the media with meeting a narrative versus
platforming talent. And I think that making money and meeting a narrative being so important, much more
important than the creator, has suffocated the entire industry.
And I was actually talking to some people about that recently.
We've seen with the writer strikes, we've seen with the actor strikes, we've seen that
a lot of the people that built these
industries have been cast aside. And I think that some of that was miscalculation of the ability of
AI to replace humans. And I think we're not at that level right now. And I think that there will
always be a special place for humanity, for the human touch. I think that's what makes us special. I think as we see AI rising and
becoming more, you know, maybe moving towards one day a level of sentience, it's actually
opening our eyes to what it means to be human, right? Because we're comparing humanity to AI,
and we're really starting to understand what makes me human, what makes me different than the
AI that I'm programming and I'm training?
So I think it's really powerful. I think that we're rebuilding the industry in a great way.
And I think it's up to all of us to think about that. I talked to some very well-connected people recently at an event that were in film in Hollywood. And I said, let's not make the same
mistake. Let's not allow what happened last time to somehow take over the crypto industry.
Because the reason that we're here is because we're building an equitable future for everyone,
for every person across the world to have a chance.
We don't want that to become an echo chamber where only a few people can succeed.
So I think it's incredibly inspiring what's happening right now.
I think we're rebuilding the media in a way that works for everyone.
And I think it's really inspiring.
And I'm just so happy to be
doing it. And also in our world, we have the Doge meme. That's what we represent. We represent the
Doge IP. We also represent the Kokoro IP, which is another amazing dog that the Doge family has
adopted. And I think it's really powerful for us because our whole mission is to support the
creator, right? Our whole mission is to support that family that took that photograph, that
adopted these dogs, that made a difference in the world, that's memes
went viral, and we're trying to allow that to transcend on chain and keep that
story alive, which then keeps that culture alive and allows people to
understand the provenance and the thread that ties the story together.
And again, what we've seen in Hollywood and the media is that a lot of confusion with who is the creator, who is the story, what really happened.
And a good example of that, I guess, and nothing against Tim Burton, he's amazing.
But I was talking to somebody and they said, you know, Smoke, by the way, you do realize
Tim Burton did not direct Nightmare Before Christmas.
Tim Burton did not direct Coraline, actually.
He wasn't the director.
So it's interesting.
So if you go and you look through media and you look at some of these famous things and who gets famous and maybe who gets forgotten or not mentioned,
you start to realize there is not a solid support for, love for, and a way for the creator to succeed.
And if you see something like that happening, then you have a system that doesn't work.
And if you have a system that doesn't work, it's only going to last for so long.
It's going to be overtaken by a system that does work.
That's what we're all building now, and I'm incredibly excited to be a part of that.
That's beautiful.
I'm glad that on Chain, we have tools to give um give these uh creators
the ownership of their ip and also give them more recognition for their work uh which we've
time and again see the traditional uh media mostly abuse their workers and refuse to pay them
uh fair wages so crypto is part of the answer i'm i i bet for sure um we have a new speaker on the
stage mr freeman and i'd like to bring you in uh you are a living ip with three million plus fans
17 million viewers the 30 billion views that's a ton of views and not just another AI puppet. And Mr. Freeman is going on chain, backed by Bass, OneInch, and BZB Capital.
And I want to give you this question, Mr. Freeman.
Can AI agents truly create iconic characters and stories?
Or will they always need a human spark, like what we talked about earlier?
Hi there. Can you hear me?
Perfect. Yeah, that's great.
OK, so we make cartoons for the last 18 years,
and we were trying to be on the wave all the time
and all the new technologies that we can find.
So we take care about it.
And when we started experimenting with Mr. Freeman as an AI-driven project, the idea was quite simple.
Can a character live online, not just as content, but as an autonomous presence?
And today I want to share the next step in the journey.
So we are launching a new phase of Mr. Framing development and we are going to transform
him into a full artificial intelligent agent, not just a bot that posts or writes, but complete
media entity that can visualize, narrate, interact in real time and so on and so forth.
And what does that mean in practice? Just imagine an AI character that can generate an
illustration or animation of himself while he's speaking to you directly, one by one, face to face.
while he's speaking to you directly, one by one, face to face.
He can deliver his own voice instantly without waiting for a human actor,
without any directing or some different old-fashioned stuff that we needed before.
He can answer questions and he's absolutely separated from the creators
who made it from the very beginning.
And right now we want to make the new entity stand alone, making decisions and to work
by itself and to find good solutions, how to promote himself, how to make the new content
and so on.
So, of course, there is still a human core. It's very important
to understand. And the philosophy, the creative DNA, the initial spark that always comes from
people. But once that foundation is set, I think AI makes it possible to scale an IP in ways that were unthinkable even five years ago.
So that's it.
Yeah, definitely.
When it comes to AI, anybody that's using AI will always have an advantage over someone who doesn't.
And that ability to scale is something that is unprecedented.
I want to pass the next question to Dijan.
I know you've been waiting a while to speak.
What do you think?
Can AI truly create iconic characters and stories
or will they always need a human smart?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a hard question i i haven't really done the research to see you know what ai ip is out there and you know how it's
doing and all that kind of stuff intuitively i can kind of speak to that and kind of give my opinion
um at the moment i think the first question was really just inspiring.
And also Andrew did a really great job at just presenting his experience and all that kind of stuff.
All the insights into what makes a really great IP.
And so I think this is sort of connected to that question.
Can AI make a really great IP? And it comes down to like, well, there are maybe certain like formulaic parts
of IPs. And it seems like simplicity is one of them, you know, things that sort of can attract
a global audience, can break through language barriers, things like that really help to make
an IP global. And I think potentially, you know, an AI could fill that role and could come up with something that's interesting.
So I do think it's possible.
I think it's totally possible that AI can create a fantastic IP.
The thing about IP is, though, I do think you need a bit of this magic secret sauce.
And that spark, that thing that makes it magical, the reason why Pokemon is magical or why D-Gen, the hat, became magical or why Doge for Dogecoin became magical, I think it's kind of hard to pinpoint.
Sometimes I think about music.
What makes a hit record?
Can you sort of formulaically create a hit record?
Yes and no.
Maybe there are some rules to the game like we
could probably also apply the same ones that we said for film but at the end of the day what makes
something a hit song especially a hit song that for instance spans decades or years um it's sort
of it's just like this magical moment if we could recreate it ourselves every studio uh you know sony and warner brothers
they'd be all doing it if they could um it's just not possible it happens once in a while
that you get something so amazing so unique that it just attracts all these eyeballs attracts all
these ears all these listeners and i think that is something that usually comes from like a human
element um although i don't think it has to necessarily with time with ai sort of learning And I think that is something that usually comes from like a human element.
Although I don't think it has to necessarily with time, with AI sort of learning our habits,
learning what we like.
It could come from that. I just don't think it's necessarily like this formulaic design.
Of course, once you get really big, like Andrew was sort of mentioning, once you sort of have
Transformers 1, that's a big hit.
Now you have a whole bunch of distribution.
And so now you can tap into that distribution.
People that know the brand, they've sort of heard about this.
That's why we were also sort of talking about how it takes years and years and years sometimes
to build up an IP generations.
You know, one generation saw Transformers.
Now they're bringing it to the next one.
They want to introduce the next generation to something that they remember from their childhood.
So it takes time sometimes to build up some of that IP. But I think it all
comes from this sort of like element, the sort of place of, I don't know, the secret sauce that I
like to call. And that's not really easy to replicate. i do think ai can do it and if it does it then
you need a team to sort of scale it and and take it further and i i sort of lost track what i was
saying a little bit earlier about the distribution phase is like once you get that huge distribution
like transformers of course every movie everything you make after that it's much easier to get
eyeballs on it even if
the movie is so so and i think that's what sort of andrew was kind of also talking about how like
you know we start monetizing things that are already working and start and we sort of stopped
um or maybe made the ip a little bit stale and we're not seeing any new innovation sort of in
the space um it's easy to do that you see that with artists too they have one hit record maybe
they managed to have a second one it's really hard to have a second hit record but some artists are able
to do it sometimes they have a third one so rarely any artists like the Beatles or you know people
like that who can like span for decades and decades and decades and have multiple hits usually
you have one if you're lucky in your career and then essentially what you see after that is like
now they've built up a huge fan base a bunch
of distribution um they're signed with labels and now they can have like a pretty good record
in in all other circumstances it wouldn't be a hit but because they had one before they're able
to sort of distribute it further and sort of make money off of it and then it becomes like how can
i continue making money off of what i already made uh which is you know that's respectable that's a business we all we all sort of want to make money too
um but anyway sort of wrapping things up um i do think we will see ai um you know more and more in
this industry um it will learn what we like and i think you know just just out of randomness it
it might just create something amazing that sort out of randomness it might just create something
amazing that sort of like drives us it might something create something with that secret sauce
that we all really like and then it'll take a human team to scale that market it
distribute it and make a business out of it
yeah even right now humans are still necessary because uh that that human touch i don't know like when i
listen to those ai generated songs they're pretty good um but i always feel like you know something
is missing and maybe that human touch it makes all the difference um i'm just wondering like
with all the speakers in the panel besides mr freeman how many of you actually make use of AI in community-driven IP?
Do you have like an AI agent or bot that generates images or GIFs or whatever it is for your community to use inside the community and also on social media to spread the message of
your company or your meme. Anybody have that experience? I would love to hear
what you have experienced. Yep, Dijen, go ahead. Yeah, I'll answer really quickly and make time
for some other people here. With DGen, for instance,
we're sort of trying to put the hat, our hat is our logo. It's sort of like the main centerpiece
of everything around DGen. And essentially the hat is very remixable. So you can put the hat on
different people. You can put the hat in different places, which is what sort of makes it universal.
And that sort of goes back to like what makes a good IP. But like, where do we sort of use AI?
Well, we just got a new designer like about two, three weeks ago.
We've never really had a designer before.
We, you know, it was all like a community-level initiative.
People were sort of taking a 2D hat and putting it in different places,
remixing it, putting it in memes.
And now we're sort of, you know, we're trying to create a more unified visual language.
And we're trying to make sort of like a brand out of this hat that's more recognizable and so forth and so on.
A part of that is we want to put it in like 3D worlds, 3D virtual worlds, because we see that, you know, the transition from sort of IRL to like Web 2 and now Web 3 is sort of a transition from in real life experiences to like more and more virtual experiences.
And web three is a virtual community. Degen is a virtual community.
And so we want to kind of put this the hat in a virtual space and a virtual 3D space.
The thing about 3D modeling is it's very difficult, very time consuming even today.
very time consuming even today.
And so if you wanna have like a really nice 3D render
of not just a hat, but like a hat in a 3D landscape,
it would take quite a lot of time.
And you'd have to have a lot of like templates
and other things sort of already created.
So we do use a little bit of AI
to sort of generate these 3D worlds.
And then we have different 3D assets
that are sort of hand created,
hand selected, hand made by the designer, but the AI sort of around it helps us generate other
assets and other things. And so that is one place where it's helping us. Also for me, I've been
handling the socials for Degen for a very long time. And now we sort of have a marketing team
coming along, which is also going to help us a bit. But essentially with just me as a one-man team, we have like, you know, a few million basically members of the community or, you know, at least over a million holders on base on centralized exchanges.
We don't really track that, but I'm assuming it's, you know, another million holders or so.
So there's quite a lot of people. And so for me to constantly be able to keep up with everything, I do use AI a little bit for like, hey, suggest content or maybe I have a content idea.
So there's quite a lot of people.
Hey, can you help me out and figuring out things? And now obviously I have the marketing team, which also inputs things.
But at the end of the day, I personally do use AI to sort of polish things or come up with sort of roundhouse ideas for posting on socials.
It is really nice to have, especially in the early days
when you're just beginning to scale.
Yeah, I think that right now we don't have the perfect tool.
Right now, we don't have the perfect pool.
We kind of have to mix and match.
We kind of have to mix and match.
But eventually, I think when more people need this solution,
I think we will have all this ready for us to use.
And I want to post the next question to Andrew
because I know that you have a lot of experience creating franchises.
And so with Mr. Freeman,
AI can write posts and monetize.
I wonder, what does it take for us to create
the first AI native franchise in your experience?
Yeah, so I think the part that's interesting
is like other than the Hollywood background,
I also come from a big AI background.
I used to work on the Alexa team at Amazon headquarters.
You know, it's, it's really interesting. Like, I want to go back for a second. So most of my
friends that I've known now for 20 years work in Hollywood. Right. And I had dinner actually the
other night with a friend who's one of the producers for the Sopranos. And we were talking
about AI because it, you know, it started started with I think all the writers in Hollywood were very threatened by the idea of like AI generated scripts by studios right.
Because you know what can they do they can take every script ever created they can use it to train models they can say, you know, create a new franchise for me leveraging the best elements of our most successful movies in the past 20 years right.
best elements of our most successful movies in the past 20 years, right? Then I think there was
a little bit more of a concern, and there's already a bunch of these coming out, where you
have these AI studios that are trying to create like film and television shows, you know, using
AI, right? And obviously, that's very threatening to directors and producers and, you know, all the
below the line folks. I think what's interesting, though, is with AI, you've never been able to
really personalize this stuff in a meaningful way,
right? Because in the early days of animation, I mean, everything was hand drawn, right?
And then obviously with, you know, CGI and new technology, it became a little bit more
streamlined. You started to see even just enormous animation industries pop up in places like the
Philippines. But what I have yet to see is, I guess, when we think about storytelling, like how someone interacts with a character, right? So I can watch Transformers or I can buy a toy and I can pretend, but like, have I ever actually been able to have a these characters, it's actually going to create
stronger connections for them and deeper connections with them, right? And it's not to say that
everything that's generated obviously becomes kind of mass content, mass consumption. But again,
if you think about, and I'll give you kind of a dumb example, like I remember Coke was one of the
first to do this, where all of a sudden, you know, they change Coke on the side of the cans to everybody's names, right? And there was this novelty of, oh my gosh,
I can buy a Coca-Cola can that says Andrew on it instead of Coke. That's cool. Maybe I'm going to
buy one, right? And so I think there's something interesting with like, if my favorite quote-unquote
IP or characters, you know, actually become my quote-unquote digital friends, like, how does
that strengthen the bond between us?
And like, what's the potential beyond that? And I'll give you a great example. Like when
Kickstarter first launched, I had been working with some artists like Taylor Swift, and we were
trying to figure out this like crowdsource model because, you know, at the end of the day, like
most folks in Hollywood, they just want to own their IP, you know? And if you, if you look at
Taylor's kind of battle, like that's what it was all about. She wanted to own her masters.
And it didn't work. Like when we tried to crowdfund celebrity
projects, it didn't work. Cause I think the POV was, well, you guys already have so much money,
you know, why are you asking the fans to do it? But, but I take a step back and like,
take Mr. Freeman, for example, let's say, you know, you have a million people that are now
talking to him and that's strengthening the relationship. Right. And you have this one-on-one
word of mouth communication.
He can then say, Hey guys, I want to make a 90 minute feature film. Right. Um, but in order to do it, I need to raise $10 million for, you know, for production and animation. Um, I think, I think
having that stronger direct relationship with fans actually makes conversion of those types of things
a lot easier. Right. Cause, cause it's different, right? It's like someone you're talking to every day that says, hey, let's make this together. Let's do it,
right? And so it'll be interesting to see the IP extensions that can come out of, let's call it
just stronger relationships and bonds with fans. I know that was a very long-winded answer, but
that's my take. Yeah. Thanks, Andrew. And I want to pass the mic over to Mr. Freeman.
They are actually building an AI franchise.
And I want to hear from their experience.
Does it cost as much as traditional media?
You need to raise millions and millions
before you can produce an animated series.
And does AI undercut the human competition?
What do you think, Pavel?
I want to tell about a bit different thing.
Alongside Freeman, I also want to highlight our other major project,
Take My Muffin.
From the very beginning, this series was built with
Web3 support.
It was actually one of the first animated
shows in the world to be financed
through NFTs.
We raised 3.5 million bucks
directly from our community.
That funding made
it possible to produce the entire
first season.
It's really very important just because the old
money industry is very slow and the crypto market is fast. And it's just as fast as the modern
multimedia environment. And I can't remember who was talking about Squid Game. Squid Game guys,
they spent seven years to find the broadcaster. And right now, it's too long.
You have to be much, much faster.
So Web3 is
a real support for the filmmakers.
on the top of
that, I mean, NFTs, we have
the strong backing
of OneInch as our general partner.
TakeMyMuffin is not just an animated series.
It's a case study of how Web3 can empower independent creators
to build a large-scale, high-quality IP
outside of the traditional studio system.
And I want to outline one thing about AI.
In animation, nearly 30% of the budget goes into backgrounds alone.
And that's enormous cost driver.
Now, by integrating AI into the workflow that we have,
we can reduce that expense dramatically,
generating and polish and backgrounds in a fraction of the time without compromising
artistic quality.
So what started as the first Web3 native series is now becoming an artificial intelligence
augmented production model, showing how new technologies can completely reshape both the
funding and the economics of animation. So I think it's really very important thing.
very important thing and I wanted to tell you about this. Thank you. Yeah, I think it's beautiful
And I wanted to tell you about this. Thank you.
that people are able to produce high quality content with AI. I think all the touch-ups and
all the labor-intensive work that goes into producing animation, AI will probably be able to do much faster.
And we got two new speakers on the stage.
And before I bring them forward, I want to go into the next segment of our space today,
which is fact or fiction i'm going to read a sentence a statement and i'm going to ask
uh mu to uh to tell me is it fact or fiction and uh you know explain to me uh why and so
mu get ready this is your statement um the next mickey mouse will be born on Solana or bass, not on Hollywood.
What do you think, Hugh?
Is it fact or fiction?
I'm going to go with fiction, personally.
Because I think that something as big as Mickey Mouse...
You know, things are really segmented in crypto sometimes.
And you have loyalists to this chain.
And, you know, like you're saying, if it would be on Solana specifically, I feel like, you know, Mickey Mouse is just going to need to have.
If we're going with the upper echelon of the Mickey Mouse, then, yeah, I think I'm going to have to go with fiction on that one.
And I think this Mickey Mouse will probably have to be bold.
I want to bring the mic to Sasha.
And this is your statement, Sasha.
AI will replace human creators for 90% of IP content.
What do you think?
Would that be a fact or fiction?
Hello, hello.
Yeah, can you hear me?
Hey.
Good.
Can you please repeat the statement?
Because I lost a little bit of connection.
Not a problem.
AI will replace human creators for 90% of IP content.
Ah, well, it's good.
I don't think it's happened.
At least it might be happening, but it not, it won't be happening in the, in the
nearest future.
That will be my statement
but it will happen it's just not yet here yeah that's what i believe in
and for the next one i want to pass it over to anton uh the value of ip characters will soon exceed the value of L1 blockchains.
What do you think, Anton?
Fact of fiction. Oh, wow.
I think that's fiction.
From the question department, I think that's the most fiction.
That's the biggest fiction.
L1 premium is very hard to beat.
You know, I think a lot of apps are becoming L1 along to become, to increase your premium.
I think you're starting to see some IPs building out their own L2s or, you know, pre-related.
So you know, I think the biggest, the biggest, the first checking up would be, is abstract
more expensive than Bankroom, right?
You're going to need to check on that
after that you can start hoping again yo anton i think uh you're you are in a room that echoes a
lot so uh we we couldn't really hear you um so so maybe like uh move to a closet or something. So the mic picks up less of that echo from the background.
But nonetheless, I want to pass things over to D-Gen.
Tokens tied to IP are stronger long-term than utility tokens.
What do you think?
Fact or fiction?
Yeah, these are hard ones.
I would say, this does sort of tie into another question you sort of asked.
Will an IP sort of eclipse or flip Disney's Mickey Mouse character?
And I do think that we will see something like that in the future.
that we will see something like that in the future. I think it's possible that we see something like
I think it's possible that we see something like that in the future.
that in the future. I don't think we've really seen the full potential of Web3 brands or Web3
IPs yet. What we have seen is Web3 communities, like Dogecoin, for instance, is the biggest one.
The thing with these legacy, I call Dogecoin a legacy, let's say, community or IP kind of thing, just because
there's no really team actively building it out at the moment.
Elon Musk was promoting it for some time, but he's not really like a paid, well, he's
part of the community, but he's not really a part of the team officially in any capacity.
So I think we're now moving into this new sort of era,
this new phase where we are seeing people like Pudgy Penguins
who are like actively building out their IP.
They're creating partnerships.
They're getting their products into like the hands of retail.
Degen, we're also kind of working towards that vision as well.
And so I think what we will see in the near future is we will see a
meme coin that does flip Dogecoin. I think that's much more realistic than saying that ETH will flip
Bitcoin, although there are a lot of ETH maxis who say that. But I think that it is a more realistic
thing to say that in the near future, there's going to be a team that builds out an IP that
actively markets it, promotes it, sells a product, and flips Dogecoin, which is not being actively managed at all.
I think that's completely normal, and I think that will happen. And sort of going along those lines,
I do think that once we sort of realize the full potential of Web3, remember, we're still sort of
in the early days of Web3. We're further along than we were 10 years ago but this this you know there's still a long way to go before we bring
like 1 billion people on chain we still need visa mastercard we need all these different companies
to sort of come and bring retail in and i do think that um meme coins and communities and ip
meme coins and communities and IP have a very direct connection to retail customers.
And customers really understand these products because of all the reasons that Andrew was
sort of mentioning.
They're simple.
They cross borders.
A good IP sort of does all of those things.
And so I think what we're seeing is like Robinhood, for instance.
They're listing a ton of different meme coins.
And the reason is, is ton of different meme coins. And the reason is
because retail understands meme coins. They understand meme coins a lot more than they
understand complicated technologies and L1s. These are all backend services, these L1s and
these infra tokens and utility tokens. So retail isn't going to be really interested in it. Yes,
VCs will be interested and they have big pockets and they'll probably buy up a lot. And so the market caps will be really big. But I think retail is
really, really powerful. And once VCs sort of see like, hey, there is great IPs and tokens being
tied to IPs, I think they'll start investing in them too. And by the way, Degen was one of those
tokens. We had the biggest VCs in the world buy DGEN tokens, even VCs that aren't
in the crypto space. And we have like one confirmation that's officially on our roster,
but a lot of these VCs bought from their liquid funds. So VCs are looking into this as well. And
I think it is reasonable to say, I think it is sort of a fact that I think a token sort of tied to an IP product could, you know, will eclipse
and will do better than just sort of a regular, boring, you know, tech infra backend layer
one infra utility token, which is cool.
They need funding.
They will get funding from VCs.
They'll do well.
But I don't think, you know, I think we're entering to a new era
and we're seeing it with stocks too, by the way.
So, you know, you're having Wall Street Bets,
Pump AMC, Pump GameStop,
and they're doing extremely well.
And those companies that can capitalize
off of those pumps
can basically survive another day
if that's the spot they're in,
or they can do even more than that.
So, yeah, I think tokens tied to IP will outperform those tied to utility.
Yeah, very cool.
And I see your hand up, Smoke.
Go ahead, please.
Yeah, I'd love to jump in.
I think a lot of interesting points made, but I did want to kind of set the record.
So thank you guys again for having us.
But actually, there is a team that works actively
behind the doge ip so a lot of people don't know our story but we are on the doge and we acquired
the doge nft in 2021 and we fractionalized it directly from the owner of doge at suko sato
so she because of this she gave us the exclusive ip for doge and we have had some amazing
partnerships a lot of you guys might have heard of Revolut. They're a multi-billion dollar fintech company.
We have a card that we've used a Doge image on with them.
We've had an awesome partnership with Ledger.
We have partnerships in place right now
with some of the people on stage, including Mew.
We have other partnerships,
very large scale ones that are in the works.
But I think it's a good point
that there is a lot of confusion
and there's a lot of decentralization
around different tokens. The fact that we are a separate project from Dogecoin, there's a lot point that there is a lot of confusion and there's a lot of decentralization around different tokens um the fact that we are a separate project from dogecoin there's a lot
of confusion there a lot of people think we're the same um but i will say that we are uh planning to
do a lot of different interesting stuff with dogecoin over the next coming year um and they
definitely helped us to build the statue that we made for doge in japan which we will be going to
visit in a month and a half uh so yeah a a lot of good points, but did want to throw it out there. There
is an active global team that has global events regularly that's working towards some major
partnerships, working behind the Doge IP. And I definitely agree that having memes at the forefront
is something that's very exciting and relatable for people. And I think it's definitely going to help to bring more mainstream awareness to the
entire industry.
Yeah, I agree.
I think having a team to push the meme will definitely give it much more longevity as
well as get it more eyeballs.
And so before we wrap things up, I want to give each of the panelists an opportunity for like 30 seconds to talk about what they're building and also to get the listeners excited to join their communities.
And of course, everybody that's listening, please follow our speakers.
All of them are awesome builders.
They're building important technology that will really change the world.
And I want to give this opportunity first to my co-host, Pavel from Mr. Freeman.
Give us a 30-second pitch about what you're cooking and get everybody excited to join.
I'd like to keep it in secret because we will announce it probably next couple of weeks.
So if it is okay, this time I will not tell you a lot about our future expectations and what we're going to do.
Okay?
Does it make sense?
Okay.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
So everybody follow the Mr. Freeman account uh they are keeping their cards close to
the chest uh and i love to see it i want to pass things to uh anton anton i hope that uh you're in
a better room right now like uh tell us about what you're cooking and get people excited to join your community. Let's see, you can hear it now better?
No echo?
Much better, but still a little bit,
maybe the microphone has some quality issues.
Okay, well, I'll be brief.
We're building an app that you might need
that helps you improve Steve with your free words we actually build now another product called Steve Pagotchi Lightroom
that's the same characteristics we developed as Steve Pagotchi and a lot of the stuff that we're building in some of our products
is putting our master, our green dino, dinosaur, T slash Quazilla, but in a quiet fashion on our old products, right?
So we always interact with that.
So as we were building our main apps,
we have, you know,
hundreds of thousands of users.
We're also building IP at the same time.
Oh, man.
Like, I don't know if it's me. like, I couldn't really catch what you said earlier.
But I hope that the listeners had better luck. I want to pass the mic over to Sasha. And Sasha,
tell us what's cooking at One Inch and get everybody excited to join.
GM, GM, first of all, again, thanks a lot for a great opportunity
to join this beautiful conversation.
Unfortunately, I joined later, but this is lucky us.
And this history started from Take My Muffin collaboration,
and now we're here talking about the upcoming cool release
that everyone is excited about.
It's all about the Mr. Freeman.
But when it comes to OneInch, OneInch is the biggest DeFi aggregator.
We built the hackathon.
We are true DeFi native dreamers that think that DeFi can really reshape the world.
It can improve the quality of their lives in each piece of the world.
And we on OneInch is here to provide the best user experience
for the DeFi users by providing both B2B and B2C services.
So on B2B part, you can use the mobile wallet,
go to mobile wallet and do the swap with the better rates
on the market with all of liquidity on the market
and on the side of B2B,
if you're the user, if you're the front end,
like TrustWallet, Metamask, et cetera,
who are using already under the hood,
wants to have this swap solution under the hood,
this is where we can help.
So overall, we are one entry point into DeFi,
kind of DeFi gateway where you can get all the benefits
by using
either our
API or
directly go
to the G
app on the
mobile wallet
and get the
best trades
for this
well
come join
make sure
you follow
the 1inch
account
it's down
in the
listeners
and I'm
an avid
user of
1inch
and I
love what
you guys
are doing
beautiful come to our biggest
conference ever in
Uniting Defy in Singapore
we will be happy to see everyone
and then party card after
so if they are heading to
Tokyo 2049, just go
and join us in person
to celebrate Defy together
alright, everybody listening in
make sure that you take up Sasha on this invitation.
Send her, get into her DMs.
Let's go.
I want to pass the mic over to Miu.
I know that you didn't have much of an opportunity to speak,
but I understand that you are the community manager
of a very influential IP.
And so I'd like to give you the next opportunity
to tell us about what you're cooking at Mew
and I get everybody excited.
Yeah, so we actually have a ton of stuff going on.
We just launched our Mew dedicated app
that you can check price, you can buy, sell, you can check out the latest
Mew news, buy merch, everything. It is your one-stop shop for everything Cat in a Dog's
World, and you can get it on the Google Play Store as well as the App Store. But the main
thing we are really focused on right now, among many other, or rather amongst many other things, such as our 3D animated series that's going to be coming out from Locus Animation Studios in South Korea.
But the main thing we're really excited about is our Blind Box drop, which is going to be happening on the 22nd and uh it's going to be six
little uh different muse and there's going to be different rarities and you can buy the full box
set as well we have over 60 launch partners um so make sure to give us a follow at mu on twitter or
pop into our telegram or get the Mew app and stay up to
date with everything. Yeah, that's beautiful. Mew has a lot, definitely a lot of cooking.
So everybody do follow their account and join their socials. And next, I want to pass things
over to Smokey. Tell us what's cooking at Own the Dodge. Yes. So we have a lot of incredible
stuff cooking. We're actually partnering together
with mu on that drop that they're doing we also have some really big uh partnerships coming up i
guess i can give some alpha we have a partnership with moxica which is a luxury dog product brand
that we have coming up that's going to be really cool we have an event called doge day we're going
to where we're going to bring meme celebrities from across the world to come hang out with us, celebrity dogs.
We're going to hang out at the statue that we built for Doge in Tokyo and have an incredible time.
That's on November 2nd.
You can check out our page at OwnTheDoge for more details.
And just a bunch of amazing partnerships globally.
We just got back from Basecamp, which was incredible.
We have a very powerful Doge Africa team and Doge Japan team
that we're incredibly proud of.
And our main message beyond spreading the Doge IP
across the world is to spread do only good every day
and a positive vibe throughout the crypto industry.
That's beautiful.
I like the emphasis on making the world a better place
instead of just like DGEN stuff.
And so I want to pass the mic over to Andrew. Andrew, tell us what you're cooking.
Yeah, so I recently launched a strategy shop.
So for background, I've been a marketer for about 20 years, worked with over 250 brands globally,
and then have been a CMO of three different companies in this industry.
And then candidly, just, you know, I've had a lot of founders and VCs reach out to me and say,
how do we scale you? And so now I'm basically working across multiple projects, you know,
typically by referral. But yeah, so one we're working on right now, which you may have seen,
it's called SOAR. It's an ICM launchpad that's launching on Solana. Very, very innovative
technology, very, very innovative team, and some really, I would say, impressive folks behind the
scenes involved as well. So if you haven't seen it yet, check out Soar. It's launchonsoar.com
where you can sign up for the waitlist and learn more. Yeah.
Very cool. Everybody, make sure to sign up for the wake list.
Click into Andrew's account,
follow him
for the latest updates.
And finally,
save the best for last.
Dijen,
tell us what you're cooking.
Hey, what's up?
Yeah, well,
first and foremost,
we are a community.
So I just want to encourage
everybody to come join
our Twitter.
Check it out.
We also have a Telegram community.
If you have an
opportunity, go and check that out as well. And we are the biggest token on Farcaster, the biggest
community there. So if you're into decentralized social, check us out there. In terms of what we're
cooking, Degen started on Farcaster. That's where the community was built. Since then, obviously,
we've scaled, we've built out. And we're trying to kind of give back to the community. built. Since then, obviously, we've scaled, we've built out, and we're trying
to kind of give back to the community. We did that first by giving $50 million worth of airdrops to
the Farcaster community, to content creators, to people that were there, completely independent
of the Farcaster official team that's building the protocol. And now we're building a Farcaster
client. So you can kind of think of this as
as like an email client of like viewing your emails except you're viewing your farcaster
profile that's everything from your followers your posts everything that sort of encompasses
this like decentralized network called farcaster so we're going to slowly start rolling that out
end of october uh sort of when we're planning to release it rolling that out. End of October is when we're planning to release it,
although we will start giving out betas at the end of the month.
So that is the big product launch that we have coming.
Aside from that, we are cooking some things in the background
that I'm also not going to talk about,
but if you follow us on our socials,
we'll announce things there as they happen.
And aside from this, we've been a really community
bottom-up initiative that has happened sort of organically.
And because of that, we haven't really put in a lot of time
for branding and creating sort of like this unified visual language.
And we are sort of doing that now.
Like I mentioned a little bit earlier in this space,
we've hired a designer and we are
kind of creating this one brand, this one visual language for Degen, for the community. And we're
going to start rolling that out progressively on our Twitter page. You can already kind of see our
3D hat in this 3D world. And we're going to start doing a little bit more with that IP
and trying to unify everything together because right now a lot of it's been made by the
community memes has been made by the community and so we kind of want to give it that nice
professional touch-up that DGEN deserves and thanks for having us I gotta hop off no problems
and all to all the speakers thank you so much for spending the hour with us dropping your experience
and your knowledge to all the listeners thank you so much for spending time waiting and listening. I hope that whatever that
was shared during the space was useful to you and informative. And I look forward to meeting you
again in the upcoming Wagme spaces. Thank you once again, and I'll see you at the next one.
Thank you guys what do you do with
the bitcoin besides it just gather value real estate developers in new york city they're not
buying the real estate because they want to live in it but like most of the people who are buying
assets at some point want to sell the assets out of profit people people people that use
