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Wallet Wars: Why They All Suck
Recorded: June 24, 2025 Duration: 1:01:39Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, crypto experts explored the challenges and future of digital wallets, highlighting Maverick's $3 billion partnership with the MAG Group and the need for innovative wallet solutions that enhance user experience and security. The conversation underscored the growing trend towards integrating DeFi functionalities within wallets, aiming to create a seamless and efficient user experience in the evolving crypto landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you're at in this crypto world.
My name is Cody, and I will be your host for today's episode of Xtalk.
episode of Xtalk. Thanks to all of our panelists for being here. And more importantly, thanks for
Thanks to all of our panelists for being here.
you for listening and tuning into today's episode. We couldn't do these episodes without you. So
if you wouldn't mind giving this space a share so that we can beat the X algorithms, I would
greatly appreciate it. And I know our panelists that have taken time out of their busy day to
basically make this happen, I know they would appreciate it as well. So I just need a couple
more stragglers to come up on. Once we do get them up on stage, we'll get them ready to go here in
just one second. So bear with me for just
a moment longer until I can send out this invite and we'll kick it off. All right.
That invite has been sent out, so hopefully they'll be able to join us shortly.
But we've got a great panel set up for you guys for today's episode of wallet wars and
why they all suck so great topic great discussion uh that we've got lined up and so to meet the
panelists that will be joining us let's start going around the horn here and let's kick it
off with joel how are you my friend hello sir gmgm as it were as the kids used to say but
probably will stop saying my name is joel and i run business development and marketing for dash
which is a crypto focused on being the very best payments and money system in the world 11 years
kicking with instant transactions great privacy super low fees, super high security, and more importantly,
it works as money and is really easy to use. And of course, this subject piqued my particular
interest because I've been using crypto wallets for 12 plus years, almost daily. And one of the
reasons why I think that the Dashpay wallet is one of the best in class is even though, you know,
I would say you give it a nine out of 10, you know,
nothing's a 10 is because I've constantly told the developer why it sucks over
and over and over again, every single day,
every single month or so for years. So yeah,
this is something that I've definitely,
it's near and dear to my heart because there's a lot of otherwise great wallets
that just are frustrating in the dumbest possible ways.
Nah, I think your product manager loves you to death.
Loves it every time he gets a message from you.
That's for sure.
I'm literally typing up a bug report as we speak.
Oh, awesome, awesome, awesome.
All right, let's keep it going over to Maverick.
Morning, guys.
How's it going?
Alex Davis here, Maverick's founder.
Maverick's a layer one blockchain designed specifically for integrating RWA's with DeFi.
We recently signed a $3 billion deal that scales to $10 billion in yield-bearing assets from
the MAG Group and in collaboration with Multibank, who will be running the regulatory side in sales
and distribution of those RWAs on our chain. So it should be coming out in a couple months.
And wow, when it comes to wallet sucking, yeah, I mean, I'm appalled at the state of most wallets.
It's really beyond me how even some of the most used wallets in the world,
I struggle just to find a timestamp on when I did something in the history.
And it's...
We'll dive into it.
This whole space is here for gripes on that.
But we got a lot of stuff moving at Maverick that should be pretty cool.
So we'll chime in with some fun stuff.
Well, it looks like we got one of the right persons to be on the panel.
So thanks for joining us today.
Well, unfortunately, it's like, it's such, it's a bad thing, right?
Like I feel Joel's problem.
Like we might be the right
guys to have on this panel but you're talking about something that pains us at the same time
exactly exactly all right adam go for it my friend gm gm everyone good to see you all today
and it's amazing to be here amazing topic i I struggle, like many of the others, I struggle with wallets. onboarding the masses to self-custody versus the niche that really care about sovereignty
and having custody over your own assets. So I think that it touches on that and it touches on
what we do at Songjam, which is voice sovereignty, as well as an agentic CRM designed for X spaces,
meaning that you can access a lot of powerful features that enable you to retrieve your listener information,
as well as transcribe.
And there's also an AI DJ that you can deploy into an X space to bring some life of music into the proceedings so that's me adam and looking
forward to getting into this no i love it love it uh definitely got a great panel lined up today
so if you're just tuning in my name is cody and i will be your host for today's episode
and so today we're talking about everything that the reason why we feel that
wallets suck. Why do we need so many wallets? What makes them suck? And in this episode,
we're going to try to answer and try to establish a number one reason consensus as to why all we
feel all of these wallets suck. Is it because they're clunky in their UI
design? Is it because they don't sync across all different chains? Is it security gaps?
Like I said, all the way back down to bad design and user adoption. So we're going to find out. So thanks for being here. Again,
if you haven't done so already, definitely give this space a share so that we can beat the X
algorithms and get it out to the masses. Because I have a feeling that some of the stuff that we're
going to drop today, people might not be fully aware of what's happening with some of these wallets that they hold near and dear to their hearts. So with that being said,
thanks again for being here. And with that, let's jump right on in. So the first question
I have for our panelists is, you know, kind of from my thing is that it's always been
why are there so many different wallets?
So I'm going to throw that over to you guys.
What makes managing wallets so frustrating for users?
Joel, go for it.
Yeah, probably because people don't really have a good idea of what people is or what they
need it for uh the one thing that everyone kind of thinks that they need it for is storing
all their assets either just their bitcoin if that's the what people do or storing and that's
kind of it and everything else that they try to do is sort of
tacked onto these main use cases and thought that they aren't done very well uh but as far as like
i'm sure there's going to be a lot more uh question type things on the specifics of why
everything sucks but to be why the managing multiple ones suck is a lot of it is because the backups people don't
really understand backup security super well and so sometimes you do need multiple wallets such
as you need like a metamask type extension wallet for your web3 stuff you want a hardware wallet for
your vault you might want something else for some other purpose you might want a spending wallet for
you know well most people don't but i need of those. A lot of people need something like
that. And there's a bunch of different things and just connecting them all in an easy way,
I think is a little bit tricky because typically what you'd have to do is just put your seed phrase
in all of them. But then of, that increases a tax surface for you.
If one gets compromised, then just all your money's gone.
And it also, a lot of people have really bad, you know,
opsec to begin with.
And you yell at them enough to be like,
handwrite this piece of paper.
Don't screenshot it.
Don't let it, whatever.
And then put it in your vault.
And then that's about as far as
their brain can go and so when it goes goes again to like how do i access it and put it into other
devices securely it becomes a pain so just that cross uh connectivity kind of a thing or you could
just be like me in the early days especially where i had like you, 12 to 20 different wallets and had just like a million seed phrases
hidden everywhere kind of thing, because it's just like each one, you're just trying them out
or you just are using all of them. And that isn't sustainable either. So kind of, we need that,
like, um, to use a funny term for this, like a separate but equal kind of a unified setup where it's all sort
of connected to, it's all self-custodial, but it's also sort of connected to the same thing,
but segmented in other ways. So you're not, your whole money isn't exposed to everything.
If there's something that does a good job of this, the best job I've seen so far,
I would say Voltisig because it's a threshold signature wallet that is allegedly more secure
than like a hardware wallet where basically you have the shares for the key split amongst
different devices. So you have your extension wallet, you have your desktop wallet, you have
your tablet, you have your phone, maybe another phone, and you sign like two out of four.
And there are some options to do if you only need one signature for certain thresholds
per day or something like that, so that you could just do your shit coining or whatever
on, you know, DeFi stuff.
But then if you need to move big stuff stuff then you need to get out your other
device and then sign it but it's still the same general pool of money
no it makes makes total sense i i've always been the is the thought process of you know if we've got all these quote-unquote smart contracts why can't we have a smart wallet right to help us
protect a lot of different things put up guardrails to make us a little bit safer if it's going to be a complex thing. So yeah, definitely, definitely agree with
your point. Maverick, let's shoot it over to you, my friend. Yeah, I think the multiple,
like the Chrome extension wallets that have, you know, multiple chains in them have gotten so,
I mean, I understand the complexity that it takes
to give you a good experience for that,
but I think so far,
I'd rather just have completely separate wallets
for different chains.
But one of the reasons,
I think that one of the main reasons
why we have wallets just terrible UI UX
is a lot of the same reasons why dApps for the most part have kind of not have good user experiences.
Developers are one part of the process when building crypto products.
But the same way, let me phrase this properly so it doesn't insult anyone.
Everyone's obsessed with onboarding developers onto their ecosystem or network or layer one
or layer two.
But what they don't realize is developers don't build products.
Teams build products and developers might be the special forces of those teams, but
they're not, you know, you need graphic design.
You need UI UX, you need product managers in order to build good
products that you developers code and we put forward but for the most part you
know I think a lot of seed phrase problems are one of the reasons why
crypto UI UX is terrible from a consumer experience point of view. I mean, literally yesterday someone said,
can't you just email them the seed phrases or WhatsApp it to them?
And that was a very hard no.
You know, something we're doing with Maverick is embedding the wallets in.
So we're using an MPC solution to embed the wallet into an account.
That way, when a user comes to go and buy real estate on a platform that we're
building, they just literally log into the username, a password.
They move Fiat over the Fiat on ramp, converts it over into stable coin.
Then you can transact on chain.
And a lot of that's missing.
But for example, even last week when I was using MetaMask, I was like
struggling to find the timestamp of when I conducted a transaction in my history.
And I had to go into each individual transaction and look up the finer details of each one, even just to see when I did that transaction.
And I just think to myself, like, guys, I go into my bank account and I see, you know, minus $50 plus $100. You know,
there's a timestamp. It tells me when I did it. It gives me the name of some bullshit
credit card name of a company because it's never the same name that it is the company that you
swiped it at, which there's a lot of improvement to be done there. But, you know, in the crypto
side of things, not only do you not have the name,
you've got the wallet address, unless you save the address, but you still can't get basic info
that's struggling. So there's, there needs to be a focus overall, not just in wallets,
but in general, in crypto of consumer experience, not just UI UX.
Oh, totally agree with you on that one.
Before we dive into some of the things that you said,
Adam, did you have your hand up or did you take it back down?
Yeah, well, I figure we're not a huge panel,
so I'm happy to be called on.
But it's definitely, I think that the,
I think that you guys are making some super interesting points.
And I do think, I do wonder sometimes about how important self-custody is for like the average crypto user and the kind of the ramifications of self custody.
I mean, I think, of course, it's something that I think it's more powerful than the
average crypto consumer might kind of realize.
And I think certainly in my journey, in my journey, you know, and kind of, you know own security is and looking for solutions for custody.
And actually in many cases preferring custodial solutions, except for in, you know, very, very specific use cases.
So it's funny because I don't think there is necessarily a good answer to that and kind of opening up crypto for a broader audience.
And I think there's a reason that the custodial solutions, centralized exchanges are still kind of representing a good.
I don't know if I'm right, but my recollection is it's about 50% of crypto is still in sexes.
I mean, you guys can fact check me on that.
I'm not sure if it's correct.
But I definitely think there's a bigger question about the benefits of self-custody for the masses.
And if it's not necessary,
then that can really kind of streamline UX.
So those are just some thoughts I've got for now.
Well, I think those are great, great points to bring out.
I mean, there has been debate from a UI UX standpoint
is how self-custody can definitely enhance the user experience.
But I'm of the belief and I'm of the faith that you don't have to give up decentralization and self-custody for somebody to have those custodial rights over your assets.
You can get that same thing. It's just a matter of
people putting in the time and effort to make it happen. I think of that a lot of the experiences
that we're getting with the wallets are just kind of those bolt-on type of experiences. If you've
heard me talk about the UI UX experience and my belief of how it should flow, a lot of these things are based upon bolt-on experience.
It's like, oh, I got to change chains.
Okay, great.
Congratulations.
We're a multi-chain wallet now because we added a dropdown,
which makes it a little bit easier to kind of navigate,
but in the same sense, too, is it's like kind of a hassle sometimes,
especially when you're doing like cross chain swaps
and things like that.
It makes it just a nuance to have to go on
and add in additional clicks and things like that.
So I think you do definitely have a great debate
kind of question there.
We'll circle back on that one. You know, my next question
is this around security type of thing. It was previously mentioned by Maverick before, you know,
having multi-seeds phrases. I think Joel even said before as well about having, you know,
20 different seed phrases kind of hidden all over the place.
What kind of security risks do we open ourselves up
by having multiple wallets
or even just putting all of our chain assets
across into one particular wallet?
Maverick, go for it.
Oh, well, I got a lot to say about this. And I guess it ties something that Adam said before,
and it ties into my answer for this is, you know, when it comes to, like, do we need it to be,
you know, custodial or non-custodial, which I guess ties into security. 100%, I'd say that you should be non-custodial. You know, the entire safety and
security by blockchain tech is the fact that you can actually have bear assets, you hold them
yourselves. Now that does present another risk, which is obviously, you know, custodian risk.
But you know, if you go with the custodial option, but we've got solutions for that today,
like MPC and embedded wallets that can allow you to have non-custodial wall, but we've got solutions for that today, like MPC and embedded wallets that
can allow you to have non-custodial wallets that feel like they are custodial. So that being said,
when it comes to security, seed phrases, great for a power user, would be terrible for my parents.
I mean, it's a bit of a personal story, but when my father passed away, I was really lucky that he was terrible at
keeping passwords and I was able to access his crypto. Um, I cannot imagine if he had seed
phrases that he needed to hold onto and recover because I've had to recover so many of his
wallets for him, like not wallets, uh, passwords all the time. People can barely keep their
passwords safe.
Seed phrases are a whole different story.
Everything should go MPC.
We need to make seed phrases a thing of the past.
100%. Totally agree.
Uh, I'm going to add something to that here in just a second.
Joel, go for it.
Well, I think that the that the um the seed phrase so i'm a seed phrase hardcore
for now because i think it's kind of the best it's like your one tool to always have access
to your funds no matter what happens but i think over time people will kind of need non-seed phrase
type uh backups that are a lot more intuitive
i think that like as i mentioned the last time about segmentation is kind of where you have a
lot of risks sometimes as far as you know do you have all your funds in a bunch of different wallets
or do you have all your funds in one wallets both are kind of terrible but basically as far as keeping it secure i think
that i'm becoming a big fan of physical devices for backups and you know that's sort of what a
hardware wallet is but for example there's a lot of nfc card kind of setups so for example
zipto the zipto wallet has like a metal NFC card that you
can assign to basically do 2FA for your wallet. So you need the physical item as well as your
password at the app in order to spend. It doesn't really help with the backup part. The backup,
you still need a seed phrase or whatever. Then you have the Tangent wallet, which has
like a three NFC card backup design.
There's no seed phrase unless you absolutely want to have one.
And so you just tap the physical card and then enter your pen or whatever and you can spend.
And if you tap two, you can reset your password in case you lose something.
And of course, you lose one of those things.
things, you have backups, right? You put them all in different directions, all different places.
You have backups, right?
You put them all in different directions, all different places.
Part of the thing is that humans, like, this is going to sound like maybe a dumb thing to say,
but I think it's smart, even though it sounds dumb. Humans are physical beings, and the internet
is not a physical thing. So we're not, like, we're used to grabbing things with our hands,
touching things, looking at things. And part of the reason why backups and things like that are so difficult is because people just, humans are not meant to do, they're not meant to deal with that kind of stuff.
And so when you bring those kinds of the digital things into a physical item, people could kind of understand that and also just like the hacking and
theft risk versus reward of electronic stuff is so much lower risk so much higher reward you could
have any scammer anywhere in the world impersonating anyone the odds that they get caught that you
whatever it's just so easy to get in there and start trying to like mess with people
especially with their technical knowledge whereas it physical you have to either trick someone into
giving up a physical item or you have to like enter their their home or wherever they are or
you know rob them on the street and then there's an immediate threat of physical risk and things
involved. So it's just a lot harder and rare depending on where you're at. So I do think that
having some sort of a physical backup kind of thing might really help with all that. And another,
I had a great chat with the Burner folks yesterday. Burner is a very interesting hardware wallet card.
It's like an NFC card that works. It's like a hardware wallet, but also you can use it to do NFC payments to a certain extent where you tap with like a certain
crypto terminal and it will transfer a certain amount of funds. And there's just a lot of this.
I think the physical crypto stuff is really going to boom. The thing, the next step, which I haven't really seen a lot of, is physical recovery.
Now, I don't mean just like the basic backup things.
But so, for example, if you lose your, let's just say you have a bank account or something.
If you lose everything, like you lose your bank card, you lose your password, you lose everything involved.
You use your phone that has a 2FA on it.
You can always sort of get it back.
That's what the KYC process is for, for custodial things, is you prove your identity through something.
And then they will say, hey, okay, we can get you back your stuff, even though you lost everything.
And then they will say, hey, okay, we could get you back your stuff, even though you lost everything.
That's all the crypto is really missing is that ability to that last ditch prove that this is yours to get it all back.
And notice with the KYC world, you can't, there are limits.
Like you can be locked out of all that stuff.
Like if you say, hey, I have like, here's my ID, I exist, get me my bank account
back. And they're like, okay, which bank did you're going to? I don't remember which bank. Okay, well,
you're kind of screwed, right? You kind of have to at least remember what financial service or
something you went into. Or if you go say, hey, I lost everything, get me back in. And then they're
like, where's, okay, show me your ID.
I don't have an ID.
What do you mean you don't have an ID?
I just don't have it.
They're not going to be like, eh, you look like a friendly face.
Like, no, they're not going to let you in without that piece of ID.
Or if you lose your ID, you have to have like a birth certificate or something somewhere.
Or otherwise, you know, there's a layer of things you can lose all your
irl private keys as it were it's so what i would be interested in seeing is some sort of a secondary
backup thing that can be applied almost universally to crypto wallets where you get like
okay let's log you into your zipto wallet let's get you into your Zipto wallet. Let's get you into your MetaMask.
Let's do whatever.
If you lose all those separate keys,
having a physical device of some kind that can help to recover,
maybe a physical device plus a super extra password or maybe someone else has a physical device, but whatever.
So basically, to answer all that briefly, to sum it up,
you'd want, I think that when you have physical backup devices,
I think that that will help a lot,
as well as a second physical recovery device.
I think that those two will make a lot of this stuff
a lot less scary and a lot easier to do.
Great points. Great points.
Let's see what Adam has to say.
Right. So, yes, what Joel was saying about recovery definitely resonated with me. I think that it was in the 2022 paper on soulbound tokens that basically one of the kind of core points that came up in this paper and the kind of unsolved
primitive in crypto being community recovery. And what was proposed was a community recovery
system on the basis that a soulbound token, what's proposed is something that would actually,
a non-transferable NFT that would actually enable your credentials to be stored, right?
So this could be diplomas, some could be identity, right?
And obviously the issue with that is if if you do lose access and and have
you know no way to recover you i mean you're losing your soul right that was kind of the
the joke actually in the paper really and i think the authors were were quite kind of knowingly
uh teasing the uh the reader with with this reference but But it's definitely, I mean, what it means,
certainly for what we do is we cannot kind of provide
actually full voice sovereignty
until we have some form of recovery on the wallet.
I think it is at the wallet level. i think that's where it has to be
so we can offer proto soulbound tokens right now right so a consensual soulbound token a revocable
soulbound token but uh that the full you know the full primitive can't be unlocked until there is
recovery and yeah that's that they were proposing community recovery.
I know that some banks in the research labs in some banks, they're looking at this and
there's I know there's some efforts being made.
And I think the idea of community recovery is it would it would happen through institutions. It could be, you know, it's not just DAOs, but universities, you know, financial services as well, right?
And that would be a way.
I mean, I'm intrigued to know more about physical recovery.
It's something I haven't looked into so much.
But, yeah, there's just some thoughts on that.
You know, about the social recovery before
we jump to maverick sorry about so i forgot in the line i think imagine you just have a physical
device like a yubi key security key type thing and your backup of last resort is you have to
plug that in and then you have to have two out of four or however many assigned friends also scan and sign with their wallets,
and then you're back in.
Maybe that's just the easiest way to do a social recovery.
Yeah, I'll circle back on this.
This is a great topic.
Maverick, go for it.
Yeah, social recovery is an interesting one
because how many friends have you fallen out with over
time right i mean like as you get older your your friend group just starts to get smaller and
smaller and smaller four plus because yes another one bites the dust okay you still got a few left
yeah i mean like at some point like can my dog recover my wallet for me is basically what I'm going to get to by the time I'm 40. So, you know, it's, um, I don't know. I'm, I'm mixed on social recovery. I understand the
necessary needs for it, especially when it comes to like inheritance and stuff like that. Um,
but you know, there also needs to be like, and that's why I think if you kind of like split it with, uh, MPC, and so it doesn't give the individual, uh, let's call it friend, a full key.
And then you've got a trusted party, let's say fire blocks, web three off, uh, uh, who else is in that field?
Privy, et cetera.
That kid, that would do that.
Zengo.
And they'd be like, okay, well, here's a death certificate, God forbid,
or here's a certificate from a notarized authority that says this person lost their wallet,
and the trusted, you know, the fret, there's like an extra layer on that social recovery,
where it's more than just your friends getting together to say that, you know, to recover those
keys. I'm a bit mixed on it because I understand the more
something is secure, the harder it is
to access. That's the things that we have
to take
into account when it comes to
private keys, but also
as the industry grows, for
example, RWAs are
not fully permissionless assets.
They do have super admins that
can help recover them,
you know, due to regulatory needs. And so when it comes to security,
you know, my better question is, how many assets will have permissioned admins on the asset itself,
as opposed to non-permissioned, right?
Or fully permissionless assets.
So you look at Bitcoin, look how popular these Bitcoin ETFs are.
And it's like the ultimate custodian held asset in the world when it comes to someone else, like in terms of like sovereignty,
or even if let's say the ETF was a bearer asset,
but someone else obviously owns, you know, holds the Bitcoin on your behalf.
So I think this will actually become less of an issue as MPC and embedded wallets really take shape, to be fair, gain popularity.
I agree with you on that one. I agree with a lot of what different points have been said.
For me, I'm not a fan of the crypto Chrome wallet extensions. If you guys have ever used those
before, I would highly recommend that if that's your only wallet that you have, is that you
diversify and get into kind of one of these cold wallet storages because there are so
many things that can be hacked with your Chrome extension wallet from malware to key loggers
to phishing attacks to browser vulnerabilities to what they call clipboard hacking.
I mean, the list goes on and on.
I could probably list about 10 to 12 different things that could go wrong with a Chrome extension wallet.
To cut in here, though, that's on a security standpoint.
From a usability standpoint, I think they're the best things you can have
if you actually are using a DApp.
True, true.
But I'm still, I mean, for me, that feels like a bolt-on experience.
So if you're talking about user experience and stuff like that,
I feel like that's something that's kind of out of the blue.
You're right in a screen, and then all of a sudden you have this pop-up
every once in a while that you've got assigned.
I think that a lot of that complexity can be done under the hood
with the right amount of permissions to what you're talking about with these NPC kind of
wallets that you're kind of doing, right? Take a lot of that friction out of the equation
with still achieving what you want to achieve. Yeah, that actually leads me to, I guess,
a question I've got for the panel, which is,
you know, you've got all these different wallets that ask you to sign like raw code data when
they're presenting it to you.
And the user just sits there and is like, okay, well, I'm authorizing X and they have
no idea what X is, right?
Every time I use a DAP and it's like you're gonna allow this contract to do a b c d
and e and it's all like 17 lines of code and yeah no no regular human being in the world will be
able to understand that um which is actually really funny when it comes to it some solana
core dev once asked me if like if you can't read the the code proposal itself should a validator have the
right to even vote and not only do i think is that that's insane um but yes of course you should have
the right to vote but when it comes to ui ux wallets need to like there's another reason why
wallets suck and you know it's something we've discussed at maverick is, and it sounds bad, but whitelisting, you know,
verified projects that, you know, so that they're, the smart contract calls can then be translated
into plain text, which is easily readable for users. And you know that this is already a verified,
you know, it's gone through some sort of like a KYC process or just whatever verification to know that it's a real dApp.
You're authorizing an honest transaction, et cetera.
Obviously, that comes with permissions.
For those who hate that kind of thing, you can still sign it without that anyways.
But I think that's something that wallets need to build in integrations directly with like how are how are
wallets not directly integrated with ave and maker dow yet if that blow or curve it blows my mind that
you can't do things directly from a non-custodial wallet today well it goes back to what i was
saying earlier you know if we have these smart contracts why can't we have smart wallets to be able to do this kind of stuff?
Because to me, it seems like a no brainer.
But so I'm with you on that one.
But yeah, Adam, you got your hand up.
Right. Yes.
Well, just just kind of riffing off of something Alex was saying around, yeah, it's kind of you want to transact at DeFi speed.
And I think your question was, you know, when you're blind signing, do you actually verify the full details of those transactions?
actually verify the the full details of of those transactions and the answer is no because i'm i'm
relying on usually the the integrity of the protocol right so that i'm not getting rugged
and uh and that's that's basically yeah i don't know if that's too much information but uh but But it's literally, you know, we have to, I have to be able to transact at some level of pace.
And, you know, ain't nobody got time to go and read all of that information.
So it's totally, yeah, like the UX is totally out of whack.
And there does need to be be something needs to happen. I think it's such a good point that it would be amazing
to actually have the integration with the protocols
so that you just designate it as a trusted protocol
and then you've got your wallet kind of synced with that protocol
and can kind of continue to transact quickly.
I don't know, maybe there should be another kind of wallet.
Like there's a kind of interim.
It can still be a non-custodial wallet,
but it just, it's like you're using it
as your transactional wallet.
I mean, I guess that kind of already exists
with the extensions, right? but it's it's definitely
yeah it's it's funny i i don't i i don't know like i don't even know how important it is to
to to be i i mean i'm less kind of concerned about like onboarding the masses to self custody, which that's what I kind of keep coming back
to or how I kind of kick this off.
But perhaps I'm ignorant and it's more important for people to be using kind of non-custodial
solutions. having to be using kind of non-custodial solutions so i definitely think there's it it's it's been
i think it's empowering on some level but it's it's just like there's could there be a middle
ground right like between just uh full custody and self-custody that's the question well adam
to i think that in a year or two there won't you won't really need to know that
your cus outside of like gas fees which even then can be abstracted like you won't even really know
with some of these we have all the tech it's here all the getting rid of private keys and your user
experience is here it's just that we're still not like all the tech for rwa is all the tech for
everything we want to build and see in crypto are here just no one's doing a goddamn thing about it because they're too busy launching and extracting value from tokens
so you know again we need that that's more of a product like a product market fit issue and
lack of grift issue than anything else like i totally agree with you that the thing is and you
kind of inspired this thought to to bring it there, because I look at blockchains as parallels to nation state economies, right?
It's an execution layer where you've got interoperable applications.
And the way a blockchain economy works is very similar to a nation state economy.
And so in that sense, a blockchain is kind of like an operating system.
Applications that all work together. That interact together.
And your wallet is your access point to that operating system.
There's no reason why wallets shouldn't be the super app of your ecosystem.
Where you're, you know, I'll use it for example with Maverick.
So you can buy assets on multibank
and then you can borrow against them on Maven Finance. And you should be able to access that
via the wallet or as the wallet acts as an app store that directly integrates with all the
different applications on the chain. And we don't really, you see that sometimes when you've got
like a swap feature in a wallet and then they'll do they'll have a router in the
back end that plugs in the best route to to swap a coin from a to b by going through 17 other
transactions but you don't really get that with other and that by the way typically goes to like
the dev the profits go to the dev team that's fine it should in the case where you're creating
a wallet super gap but you don't have that integrated with like, why can't I go on a Metamask and choose within the wallet, whether I want to borrow on Aave or Curve or Sky slash
MakerDAO, for example, that should be built in. And I think Zengo's done a little bit of that
by integrations, but not natively into it. It's more from partnerships.
Yeah, Maverick, you and I are definitely on the same page. I'm a fan of the super,
super app kind of concept because I feel like it's more secure when dApps could be built inside of
a wallet experience because then you don't have to leave. It's right there. It's ready to go.
So not only do you get the more secure, but you also get the benefit of having all your
information collected in one spot. And I think that that's another big thing too, is it's like,
as we look at these seed phrases, I'm not a fan of seed and private uh private keys either um for me i think that you
know one thing that we're trying to do over at l1x is uh is try to make it so that the proof of
participation is our consensus model and so if you can imagine having to retrieve your wallet
based upon answering a few questions about your activity, a hacker would have
to know exactly all the different chains that you've been across, all the activity that you've
done. If you can compile that all into one place, it makes it a lot more secure and a lot easier to
maintain the security of your transaction because from there, it can basically if you if you have something
that's off i mean you you could block yourself i mean there's so many different applications by
integrating your own data into your wallet experience for sure however that does require
the wallets to sync with that data so that you can get that information which it is not currently doing so um we're almost uh coming up here at the
top of the hour i do have one other question for you guys uh but if you guys happen to have a
question on this subject or for our panelists please be sure to drop those in the threads below
be sure to tag the person and we will have them answer that. If there is time, we'll bring it up towards the end of the show and get it answered for you as well. So we've been talking a lot about
obviously recovery, security. We've been talking about the different types of
wallets and things like that. I mean, realistically, when it comes down to it,
it does sound like there are a lot of things that the tech is there. Somebody just needs to come in
and kind of put the puzzle together on that fashion. But what is that ideal wallet that we
foresee coming into the near future? I know Maverick, you've kind of touched upon it.
Joel, you've kind of touched upon it.
And Adam, you've kind of touched upon it.
So I'm curious what your guys' thoughts of what the ideal wallet would look like in your mind.
I guess, in other words, one that doesn't suck.
one that doesn't suck.
Go for it, Joel.
I'm really the first. It's crazy.
Everyone wants to complain how terrible
everything is. No one wants to say what
would be great.
What would be great? The best
wallet. First of all,
I think the best wallet is a wallet that
kind of can work on multiple um in multiple environments that's a weird way of phrasing it
but basically you should be able to connect an extension wallet to it you should be able to connect an extension wallet to it.
You should be able to have a hardware wallet or something like that.
I like, for example, what Voltisig does with, they have a connecting thing called Volticonnect,
which isn't an actual full wallet like MetaMask is.
It's just a browser extension that allows you to connect to sites and then any authentication
or whatever is done on your other devices, your other wallets or whatever.
And so like for my, from my perspective, it would be, let's just say a mobile wallet
that you can also connect, you can use to authenticate the connections on the browser
that also has a hardware wallet option.
So for example, I'm very partial
to these NFC card type wallets these days
rather than the little tiny screen with the cable
and all that kind of nonsense of the old days.
But just like, let's just say you have your basic spending
money on your basic phone wallet
that then can connect everything
you could also just tap the card to access your savings account or whatever your the next level
that would you need the 2fa kind of for that is the actual backup so in that kind of a flow
it does need um and this is something that the dash pay wallet does have which is awesome
blockchain level usernames and contact lists.
You can actually friend people.
All that kind of data is stored on the actual blockchain
to where if you lose your phone, you have to recover everything.
You don't have to import some contact list file somewhere or anything.
Everything's private, but you can also just look up someone's username
and just send them as easy as you would someone on an XDM.
And so you definitely want to have whatever advanced features you need for your specific blockchain, like privacy features or anything else.
But the best thing you can do in that way is also what I like is the magic kind of feel of an app or a wallet. I like apps that are very
feature rich, but in a hidden way. If they're just a million things all over, you know, all over,
that gets really cluttered and annoying and hard to use. This should be as almost like it should
look like this wallet does almost nothing. It should be super streamlined. You should be as almost like it should look like this wallet does almost nothing it should be super
streamlined you should be able to just get in use exactly what you want but also have advanced
features if you know where to look as long as there's of course a guide showing you how to do
that or you could customize it specifically and so for example the the buttons on the dash pay
wallet are also customizable so So you can, whatever thing
you need to access the most reliably, like if there's a buy function, you want to just buy it
frequently. Homepage, there you go. It's like right there. And so basically the simplest,
smoothest, the fewest milliseconds your eyes have to take to find the thing you want and then press
the button to get what you want, the most streamlined possible, but with not missing
key functionality, which I kind of feel like is sort of the opposite of today's typical wallet,
because you have a lot of wallets that are just cluttered with all kinds of stuff, because they're
kind of more of a portfolio app than just a wallet. They have a million different things
everywhere. It's hard to find the buttons that you're looking for to do basic things like send
or see what date your transaction was. But at the same time, they do almost nothing. They have almost
no special features. So I kind of do the opposite, basically make it super clean, elegant, but then
you can customize them to use and take advantage of all the special features or the special features
are kind of pushed in the background where people don't necessarily need to see them to take advantage of them. And so, and once again, be able to use it with an extension
without having to just have a completely separate extension wallet and have some kind of an easy
hardware wallet support that you can use to like tap a card to your phone and then access more
money than your basic spending stuff. In my view, that's kind of,
you know, the best thing. The only other thing that popped up right at the end as I was about
to stop talking was an ability to seamlessly flow assets into each other and out of each other.
So for example, there's a lot of apps these days that do have built-in swap services of some kind what i like
is the ability to receive from any asset to any asset and vice versa so if you need let's just say
ethereum for this specific or let's just say solana you want to do some meme coins on solana
you want to do that via your extension wallet or whatever.
And all you
have on whatever other wallet you have
is Bitcoin. You should be able to send
Bitcoin into that wallet. It
comes out as Solana and you can just do
what you want with it. Rather than you send
Bitcoin into the wallet, which can store
it and then you manually press this little swap
thing, like swap some of your
Bitcoin over into Solana and you should just
go in and out just like that in my opinion
That was deep I like it
Maverick
Adam anything you guys want to add
Yeah on Joel's
point you know there actually was a great
cross chain atomic swap
Dex called Juster, which unfortunately, well, the team was great guys, but lived in Russia
and when the war broke out, certain agencies kind of went after them. But the cross-chain
atomic swaps definitely 100% should be in a wallet. You shouldn't really know you're crossing chains in a way where you just swap from Bitcoin into
soul. Then you can go and buy whatever you want. But, uh, when it comes to wallets, I mean,
yeah, you nailed it with the, having a tiny screen. I recently bought a new Trezor and Ledger
S plus or whatever the new one is that's out there. And I like a, it like shuts the screen
down in 10 seconds if you don't touch it. And B, you've got to still put in an eight digit password
with two buttons. And I'm absolutely appalled that that is still an acceptable thing in crypto.
And I know they have touchscreen ledgers now and yada yada, but it's like $500 for a touchscreen that's e-ink.
There's no colors.
It's highly than, I mean, is there not one company that can just put out a simple like iPhone, like just color screen.
You plug it in, you leave a biometric fingerprint or face scan or even a four-digit passcode that you can just get. I mean,
Trezor is much better, don't get me wrong, but it still takes like five seconds to verify your
password on the touchscreen. And I'm also shocked, like nothing takes five seconds to verify a
password like that. So, you know, I don't know. These are huge companies. I'm kind of appalled
at the state of hardware wallets.
When it comes to the perfect wallet, self-shill and say the Maverick wallet? No.
We'll get there. We'll get there.
But I would say a Chrome extension wallet that can connect to different apps that would allow you to have your keys in a hardware wallet for that safety security layer.
If you'd like to, or even, you know, have a hot wallet that's in the app and then a separate
wallet that's not, so you can transfer in and out like quickly without having to be in like a
different browser extension. Uh, but mostly integrated with different DeFi protocols that
you can get your assets and, you know, just like swap, you know, plug into, I don't know,
Maker, then plug into Aave, then plug into Curve,
then all these different things.
But most importantly, guys,
where in the world's the biometric authentication for wallets?
Like, why can't I just log in with my fingerprint right now or my face?
I'm on a Chrome extension wallet.
It's really
it lets me down we've got a long way to go on wallet products and i'm gonna i'm gonna leave
it at that and as we expand maverick and our offerings god willing deploy the best uh the
best wall experience you see haven't you seen mission impossible man fingerprints eye retina scans i mean all that can be faked uh so i don't know
oh dude i mean the current state of ui ux right now is that wallets require you to hover
five inches off the floor with the lasers pointing at you in order to make a transaction
that's the status of it and if you do something wrong then you end up like Emilio Estevez
that's a good analogy I like that one Adam you got your hand up so I I think these guys I think
both uh Joel and Alex have gone some way to identifying what the ultimate wallet would be
and I don't have much to add to that other than I wonder if a component of that
would actually be a browser and a ZK browser is not just my crypto assets, but my data, the data that I use on this, that I've generated on this platform, for example, that in many cases is being sold to advertisers. I'd like it to include pertinent biometric information,
and I'd like to be able to audit that myself.
And I think that that's a really important piece
of what I think we can aspire to as to provide as an industry.
Adam, can I throw something in there on what you're saying? I mean, imagine like Chrome browser, whatever kind of wallet it is,
but you upload your, your passport or your driver's license and it's hosted locally.
And there's like a built-in AI to it. So you could say, you know what? This app is asking for your picture,
your name, your date of birth,
but it doesn't need to know your eye color, for example,
as they have an American driver's licenses,
or it doesn't need to know X information.
You just need to give across this info
and it can on its own just redact that data on your ID.
But your ID, instead of being put into this
like decentralized id
infrastructure that everyone's effed up across the board just host it locally and release it
when you need it right yeah yeah totally so there you go problem solved
i'm chock full of good ideas i'll be here all week guys all right good No, I'm totally with you guys on this one. I feel like the wallet experience should be unique to the individual in a sense that it is its own OS to the blockchain.
So you can have dApps in it. You can have all the little brails and whistles that you want. You can even create different smart contracts
to communicate with one another, right?
That's what it's all boiled down to
is just creating that unique experience for Web3
the way that you want it to do.
So hopefully today's conversation sparked some curiosity
and some creativity among some developer, designer out there
that is willing and wanting to take on
this challenge of creating the utopia type experience when it comes to hot wallets,
cold wallets, and every in between kind of wallet you can have. So with that being said,
I want to thank my panelists for joining us today. Appreciate them taking time out of their
busy schedules. So definitely some OGs in the
space for sure. Good friends of mine as well. Definitely, definitely thank you guys for
participating. And for those that are listening in, definitely give them a follow. They definitely
deserve it. It's the best tip you can give them if you liked what they had to say today. And
likewise, thanks to all of you guys for tuning in.
We couldn't do these spaces without your love and support.
Definitely give this space a share because we just barely scratched the top of the tip
of the iceberg today with why wallets still suck and will continue to suck until there
is some change. So with that being said,
thanks everybody for tuning in. If you are looking for some projects, some new projects
coming up recently launched or in the Web3 space and are basically cooking already,
definitely check out our 10-minute pitch show tomorrow
where each project gets 10 uninterrupted minutes
to basically shill their project.
That is every Wednesday at 8 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.
We've got some good projects lined up for tomorrow.
So hopefully we will see you there tomorrow.
If not, we will catch you next week on X talks's roundtable discussion at 10 a.m eastern
standard time on tuesdays thanks everybody have a great one and keep working to unite all of crypto
we'll catch you on the next round see you bye bye bye guys see you later Thank you.
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