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WallStreetBets Live: Where Degens Meet Davos
Recorded: Dec. 15, 2025 Duration: 1:33:51Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Hello, hello.
Give me just a second while I set up in here. you
well i got set up i'm gonna see if i can figure out how to do music. I suck at doing these spaces coordinated. So I apologize ahead of time for lack of intro music, but I'm going to see if I can put it together.
Just a sec. Thank you. yeah i'll assume that didn't work all righty uh one more minute just to get settled in let the rest of you guys get settled in
um let's see if we got anyone that we're expecting
just one more minute, guys. Thanks. all right let's go ahead and get started let's have a look go look at a couple of people on
here let's uh i don't have an agenda here It's gonna be kind of a freestyle. I want to discuss all sorts of really exciting stuff.
So if you want to come on stage, feel free to raise your hand. I'm going to go ahead and invite Missy.
This is who I think it is. How do I invite you on stage? Manage space, invite co-host. Let's bring you in here.
No way wrong button. Speakers, there we go. Send in by David Leland, you've just been invited, I think. I hope. Try again.
Send invite. Whatever.
I'll try for my phone. Who else we got in here?
Memo, crypto, listener.
Where are the others?
God, I hate managing these things. Elon Musk, could you please come in here just so that you can take some constructive criticism on your interface?
I'm assuming David did not get the invite.
Let me try for my phone.
This is... Dave, you should be invited to speak so you can approve, I think.
See who else we can invite.
Anybody else want to speak?
Raise your hand now or hold your peace for a little while.
Oh, nobody.
All right.
I'm going to turn this thing off from here.
Switch back to my computer.
Hope this thing works.
I hope this thing works.
And.
can you guys hear me?
Yep, I got a hand.
One more person.
Can you hear me?
Hey, I see Sam is here.
Sam, I'm going to make you a co-manager.
Hopefully, you know how to work this thing better than I do.
Invite co-host.
Sam.
Send invite. Sam. Send invite.
Sam.
Send invite.
It sucks so bad.
Let's try this way.
Invite to co-host.
Invite to speak.
All right.
I've now double invited Dave Leland to speak.
Ah, there we go.
Sam.
All right.
Now you can handle this space.
If you would be so kind
to sam bring up dave and anybody else raise their hand or and was invited by you or anybody else
around you so sorry about the late start here i uh suck at twitter spaces but uh yeah happy to be
here happy for a wonderful kind of close to the end of the year here.
And was really open to have like an open conversation about all sorts of stuff. Right.
Like we got some some really exciting news, some semi exciting news, some kind of broad
picture stuff and wanted to have a conversation and share my observations.
Did we get Dave as a speaker yet? Sam? to have a conversation and share my observations.
Did we get Dave as a speaker yet, Sam?
Don't see a request on my end.
Oh wait, I see.
I can't hear you. Can you hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you.
Okay.
I'm only seeing...
Not bad.
Out of town right now.
Where are you?
I'm in Colombia.
Ah, in Colombia.
Yep.
Trying to find some new WSB fans.
Where about?
Medellin.
Wow, Medellin.
Very nice.
Never been there.
What's your favorite spot about Medellin?
It's, well, the dental's cheap, so that helps.
Is that why you're there for the dental?
Yeah, last couple trips has been
primary reason, yeah.
But also got some great food and some friends around, so.
All right.
Are you able to ask speakers or not?
Like I've got one requested.
Let me see, yeah, just if you get in the spaces request,
maybe that might work. I'll just'll just approve see if that works dave um request i'd love for you to
come on i just approved md i believe see if that works yep it worked all right cool so dave if
that didn't work drop out join back in and then request to speak i guess that's how we can do it
join back in and then request to speak I guess that's how we can do it anybody else who wants
to speak this is an open mic so question are we getting a Santa rally or not is this the end of
the year or I I guess this is a Diva traditional finance thing right uh I'm assuming that crypto is
familiar with the term Santa rally uh if you're not familiar with it it's exactly what it sounds like
it the it's the christmas the quantity is low there we go dave's the speaker finally awesome
nice to have you on dave and you're on me what's up um yeah so uhaleigh, yes or no?
Okay, I guess I'm speaking to myself.
I'm hoping for a yes.
How's that for a vote?
Yeah, Santa Raleigh, there's lots of reasons why they usually occur. Usually in traditional finance, they occur because all of the traders are on vacation.
traditional finance they occur because all of the uh traders are on vacation and uh the liquidity
is lower therefore small amounts of money are able to do larger amounts of moves and there's a bunch
of other reasons why it can be towards the end of the year once people start getting optimistic
about the end of the year like all these whatever bad news made the markets go down towards leading up to this part of the season basically like everyone closes up shop it's a little bad
news it can come out and um yeah some people take advantage they buy cheap and they're able to ride
the the uh the wave on the way back up and given that crypto and traditional finance are now
basically co-mingle,
they're one and the same,
then I'm certainly hoping for one.
Dave, what do you think?
Oh, man, I'm the tech guy here,
but predicting exactly where markets go,
not exactly my lane.
Hoping where markets will go.
Fair enough, tech guy. not exactly my lane hoping where markets will go fair enough my my career it's been i think i think people could have been making pretty decent money just sort of doing an exact contrarian of uh of some of my portfolio plays
well that's actually a proven strategy i think there's an etf that like literally inverses what
is it jim kramer don't inverse nancy pelosi but you can you can inverse jim kramer do pretty well
uh i saw that news by the way like this might be relevant to people that that uh trump was
i didn't actually get into the nitty-gritty but the headline was something along the lines of
like trump trying to give a either tax break or eliminate it or reduce or whatever on gambling taxes.
What do we think on that?
Oh, bullpen is your bullpen. Please request.
Yeah, they, they have a request there, but I can't, I can't, it's not letting me,
I think it's gigging, geeking out on me. That's a, there we go.
Okay, cool. welcome bullpen i
mean if we can get away mb you requested and you got on so if you'd like to speak please do
yeah yeah i mean i i think if we got rid of uh capital gains tax and uh you know property tax
that would be a pretty great step forward um yeah i think just the times that we're living in with
you know high interest rates and,
you know, even a lot of people, uh, you know, coming into the holidays, looking from like
retail perspective, perspective, it's like, you know, we wish that we had more money to
invest in and diversify and get into certain positions.
But like a lot of people are, are, are kind of, you know, pushing pennies together.
Uh, and that's just the way of the
world i feel right now um currently you know like people say oh inflation this inflation that and
you know even the numbers that the base inflation don't take into consideration like you know what
what normal retail look as like our needs like if i have young kids so you know like nobody
talks about the cost of snacks or yogurt or you know daycare geez like uh you know things that
like yeah maybe gas prices are cheaper than what they were but you know to to get into a home or
interest rates are sky high um and everything's so damn expensive you know just the
cost of living has gone up so so so you're you're a very very uh like a you're a very appropriate
voice here because let me just kind of rehash what i think you just said uh people are struggling
therefore we should give them a tax break for gambling in order to
make them feel in efforts to help them out.
So if I'm following your logic correctly, people should gamble.
Don't tax them on your presumptive earnings and then they can pay the bills.
them on your presumptive earnings and then they can pay the bills
yeah i'm making fun of you because your observations were serious and they were correct
uh just in the context of gambling taxes i i think well it's like anything like you know
if you can give us any kind of break anywhere i don't think anybody will will be mad about it
right um it's mad about it but should we be gambling in order to pay that bill?
That's more the question.
Well, yeah, and even with online gambling
and how she's, like, you can gamble on anything.
I think that's crazy and just, I guess, a new cultural norm.
I remember back in the day when you know it was so tough to gamble
online or or you know the regulations were so uh strict you know and now now you can like say it
you know I'm gonna I'm gonna gamble on what someone said is gonna say within the first
hour of a tv show it's like crazy you know you know, you are very correct. And actually, um, you know,
you actually bring it into something that's a little bit more relevant because
you could have called me back out by saying, well, like,
is investing any different than gambling? And, uh, you know,
I've been known to articulate that there is literally,
they lie on the same spectrum, like uh that's the that's
to me the equivalent of saying whether uh i don't know like ultraviolet is the same as infrared and
i'll say well no they're clearly different but they're different properties of the same
electromagnetic wave how far up and down you decide to put your risk tolerance is literally where you land you take something like warren buffett he's got like a
long ass time horizon and he's got his like low risk strategy and he's got his approach for it
and uh and it works if you really want to go low risk right you did your 60 40 super high
hyper diversified portfolio and yeah you can get your six percent or whatever per year but the risk is
is equivalent and as far as i'm concerned uh gambling is quite literally just a setting right
like it's like a dial on that same spectrum you're guessing warren buffett is hoping that the prices
of whatever uh he invested in is going to go up he's also hoping that the calculations he did
uh you know it's an educated guess,
but just like you can take educated guesses
with like pump fund.
And so, yeah.
So I think, you know, we can agree to disagree
on that kind of correlation there.
Because, you know, when you're looking at stocks
and a true portfolio, ETFs, mutual funds,
and, you know, getting into the market,
you know, of course, diversification is key, you know, getting into the market, you know, of course,
diversification is key, but I do believe the dynamics within, you know, you know, S&P 500 or, or, you know, large cap companies are, are a better hedge than let's say, you know, a money
line on a, on a Superbowl, right? Like, I think that they're, like you said, they're, they're two different monsters.
Like you can kind of try to, you know, pull the whole contrarian, you know, analogy, but
like, like they are not the same, like gambling's gambling.
And, and you know, like I think everybody can say like, okay, my risk tolerance is like,
can say like, okay, my risk tolerance is like, most likely I'm not going to, you know, uh,
hit if, if I'm getting a plus, you know, a thousand bet, you know, but, but it's fun.
And if it hits damn, like, and it's like that, that quick hit. Right. And if we're looking at
any kind of, uh, you know, um, like if, if you're building the portfolio, like I was a financial advisor for some time and like the best thing is to do is to diversify and like putting money into bonds and putting money into stocks and certain ETFs.
Like, you know, a lot of Vanguard solutions like, you know, like they're pretty good, good bets.
And you can call that gambling.
Right.
But like if
speculating you're yeah i tended to diversify across memes right right exactly yeah i love that
and and you know what hate me for saying it but that's you know it sometimes that it can pan out
and people have done well with with certain like, even if we're trying to compare crypto
to meme stocks to, you know, a large cap company,
it's just like they're all their own monsters.
And like you said, you have to understand
just the risk adversity from one thing to another,
from a large cap to a small cap to a crypto
to a, you know, Bitcoin, et cetera, et cetera.
Well, I'll tell you where we can meet the middle ground, I will agree
that gambling on a coin flip is gambling is just saying let's have fun and let chance
be the determining factor, right? Like, something with which we have no control or ability to
predict. Statistically speaking, the coin is going to give you,
like a fair coin is going to give you 50-50.
You can do the same with the dice, whatever, have your pick.
I will disagree vehemently with sports betting because I believe that,
although I don't know anything or participate in sports betting
or really much to do with watching sports in general,
I do know that sports bet betters are some of the best
informed people in the world and there are people that are successful at it right like i don't know
enough about sports but i'll tell you that if like i don't know i will bet you that the chicago bears
won't make it to the super bowl this year and you will struggle to try and prove me wrong.
Right.
Like the odds, like there is enough information for me to make an educated guess.
I don't know exactly how many touchdowns they're going to throw.
Right.
Like that's that's coin flip.
But when it comes to saying, all right, let's speculate on the possible outcome.
SMP, yeah, what you're reducing is volatility, right?
Like when you see a large cap, you literally mean, or at least for people that may not understand what the implications of a large cap is, is it literally it's a heavier boat.
And if you have like a cruise ship, it takes more energy and more, it takes a larger force to push it.
Whereas if you got like a rowboat or a canoe,
like it'll tip over real easy.
And so that's like rope, you know,
your canoe is your pump fund and your trillion dollar company is your,
is your cruise ship.
But cruise ships still sink and cruise ships still beer off course right so like at the end of the
day it's the speed at which these things are going to move the volatility the fragility like how
obviously you still have to basically guess if something happens in the world that creates some
financial crisis yeah your diversification in the smpP is now vulnerable to that, regardless of how diversified it was, just because you were just speculating on there not being, I don't know, like an atomic bomb going off or whatever.
Yeah, but you're just explaining volatility and how it impacts a portfolio. And yes, the gamma is the variable that is ever-changing and the thing that no analysts
can predict and and we use uh volatility in the market to to price stocks and and and you know
create hedges but but my my analogy against that right like like it's interesting because I went
into uh my one of my financial professors and a lot of
professors that i had you said financial advisor which level did you get to
uh so i have a college i have my bachelor's in finance and accounting but um either way not not
all my not all my um professors drove ferraris or you know like most of them pulled up in, in like, uh, you know,
Subaru or, you know, Honda civic. Right. And like my one professor pulls up in a Ferrari and you
have to, you know, eventually you ask about like their life, like, what, what, what are you doing?
Like, why are you driving that, that car? What, what happened? Like, and now you're an adjunct
professor, like something doesn't add up. And, uh, it's, it's funny cause his story, uh, like he started out young in, uh, um,
I think Merrill Lynch.
And essentially what he did was he would go in and half of his clients, he would position
their portfolios in one direction.
And the other half of you'd position their portfolios in the exact opposite.
other half he would position the portfolios in the exact opposite and uh he was like 50 50 and
he he actually had the best uh portfolios in the the whole um sector because everybody else was
trying to hedge and trying to do different things and trying to to beat the market and he just split
it right down the middle so half of half of his clients hated him and the other half loved him
Half of his clients hated him and the other half loved him.
And then he just did that.
That makes it look like I said.
Yeah, I agree.
And I understand where you're going.
But it's almost going to see.
I was hoping to push the direction more in the direction.
Like, you know, if if we can start looking and thinking about investing as gambling and crypto is encroaching if not invading out like outright
uh uh the traditional finance it's all right you know like what's it Michael Saylor's in the Nasdaq
index right like 100. so and vice versa you can tokenize stuff and then you can like ETF
eyes tokens you know like at this point they're they're just cross pollinators and volatility comes around all these different things.
And these things are basically just numbers on a screen that wiggle based off of like variables.
And at the end of the day, you can you can you can say that you are guessing and you're educated guessing and then you can use fancy words to try and say, oh, I'm going to reduce the volatility or like, you know, the beta,
you know, like you use fancy words to say, I'm going to make it look like it's
the downturns are going to not feel as bad and the upturns are going to be less pointy.
But at the end of the day, you're hoping something happens and you're hoping to profit from it.
And if you do, then the question is, should you tax it?
Usually you have two regimens,
which is like the short-term and long-term capital gains tax.
The idea of introducing a tax break or whatever,
like I said, I haven't read the fine print,
on gambling using that term as opposed to investing.
Now that the concepts are being mixed,
but the fact that the word gambling
being juxtaposed with it, it's like,
I don't know, it's more an observation. I find that interesting.
That's almost Trump.
You know, like, one of the things that Wall Street bets did really well is to unapologetically
call things what they are, right?
Wall Street bets, emphasis, right? bets emphasis right um you're in fact in spanish the word for trader is literally speculator um
in and uh i'm getting feedback here i might have to reconnect a second but um so if you have if
you have professional guessers right and like you said uh yeah you can get you can now gamble on
events for the united
reference earlier it was like what's going to happen in the first five minutes or whatever
polymarket but like you have event contracts that actually trade the tradable instruments
on the chicago mercantile exchange right these are binary outcome these are basically just gambles
we're guessing on the future and and they've now like securitized it and you can trade it like before the outcome manifests itself.
That's gambling. You put words with lots of syllables around it, but they like you can gamble on the CME period.
Right. And giving them a tax break, I think is a huge plus.
And I'm going to pass the mic over here to the bullpen and hear what they have to say.
But I'll finish with one nuance thing, which people don't appreciate.
The difference between short term and long term capital gains, which to me is
the, the difference between gambling tax and not gambling tax is, I don't know,
30 or 40%.
Uh, when you're trading and I'm going to say trading like a la wall street
bets, you're not allowed.
So that means that you're trading trading you're buying and selling stuff
quickly uh uh it's very specifically within 30 days and if you if you make a trade and you lose
money and then you make another trade and you make money and you break even and that trade was i don't
know tesla uh and you did those two things within 30 days, you can't write off your losses against your wins.
So you break even, but you pay taxes
because you made money on the second try.
That's like this punitive screw the little guys
that are the ones that are having to go in and out
because they're trying to expose themselves to higher risk
since compound interest
is of little use uh so anyways to me that like when i saw that no gambling tax i was like okay
cool they're actually making wiggle room for people that are trying to take on bigger risk
because they're trying to speed up the hamster wheel like the you know this this this cycle the
hand to mouth that you were that you know like i attacked
it for it but you're actually very right uh it makes it harder if you need to expose yourself
to higher risk in order to have more money like you should be allowed to give him the tax break
to at least write off your losses but anyways bullpen uh welcome yeah i was just waiting to
chime in i think on there's two things i wanted to add real quick. By the way, Michael from Bulbin here, I lead growth. But two things on like the one, like not taxing gambling, gambling earnings. Is that a move to actually improve like the economy or like, you know, make it easier for the little guy? Or is it just to win votes for a demographic? Right.
Or is it just to win votes for a demographic, right?
So I think like, oh, hey, like that's something that's marketable to like a large population that's younger and they want to win those votes.
So that's one thing to think about.
The second is like.
Well, you're questioning an incentive as to like a side benefit to it.
But the first one is the one that we really should focus on.
Of course, anything a politician does is because.
Right, right, yeah.
Because they want to keep winning, right?
But in order to do that, yeah, they want to keep winning right but like but but in order to do that yeah
they gotta they have to to hand me hand me out and i do believe that incentivizing participants
in the market is good for just the macro structural integrity of the thing right like more people want
anyways oh 100 yeah just more of like redefining it just is it like going to casino or taxing that
or is it just are you how are we how are. Is it like going to casino or taxing that?
Or is it just how are we defining it?
And you made a good point there earlier.
And what you just said, Bullpen, is 100%.
You're right by what you just brought up.
And you can't not think that that's not some kind of incentive behind it.
Like, yes, people that gamble love it, but also it's a political strategy without a doubt.
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
And then second, on the crypto side,
Bultipin does a lot of things outside of supporting Solana,
supporting Hyperliquid, Perps and Spot,
and then now Prediction Markets,
which I can touch on that shortly.
But I always thought, you know,
if you're an American and you're getting taxed on crypto,
you know, a majority of crypto participants, like I said we're 50% of the market is
international so when somebody goes and like makes money on permissionless
markets on chain a lot that's coming from you know external sources so when
you tax them you know up to like say 50% a year it really is kind of intuitive
like you you know in theory would want them to try to keep trying to attract
and gain more advantage from international participants. And, you know, eventually they spend that money and
it helps out. So that was always just a thought I had, like, it doesn't make much sense. So,
but yeah. Prediction markets are massive right now. Seems to be the new, the new meme coin.
Every wallet seems to be integrating it. All the platforms trying to integrate.
You guys having a kind of focus in that area is interesting to me as well.
Like, what are you guys seeing in the market?
What's going to save us?
Saving us.
Yeah, so it's interesting.
Yeah, for context, everybody, Bullpen is now integrated Polymarket.
We are slowly ramping out invite codes but really the main things we want to solve are just market discoverability
analytics and then finding edge so the cool thing about polymarket that's all
on chain so recent things have happened especially on like Solana side is
college she's going on chain so it's technically all the markets are still
on a centralized exchange but they can ingest orders from on chain from the on-chain world and you can
like get execution that way but for the pod market side a few interesting things that's all on chain
so a bullpen's made is like you know basically deep wallet tracking which we're about to issue
to our users and then it's alerts so like like if you see, especially on Polymarket,
you'll see like brand new wallet pop up and just like come out of nowhere and
start buying a market at 30%. They're dropping like 20 grand on it. So, you know,
it could just be a degenerate gambler, which has a lot of size,
or it's like somebody knows something. So, you know,
when you see these activities,
this is what a lot of guys are like building manual tooling for.
We were automating that process and productizing it.
So you can literally get like have a filter for like brand new wallets who are buying into these markets in size.
You'll be able to get notifications and text messages when this is happening if you're on the go.
So it's just like an alert system.
So a lot of these things are like half the right people are making money right now.
It's just finding wallets that either have edge or alpha and then copy trading them.
So that's one thing we're supporting.
And then, yeah, the mangle, I think what we're seeing right now with prediction markets,
we've been chatting with guys for probably four months that trade these things every single day in size.
It's different than meme coins, just in the sense that, like, you're upside, you're either incredibly lucky,
like, if there's a 1% market and you hit it and, like, say you get X, you know, you're right.
I mean, that's 100 X.
That's so like that.
The likelihood of that is like very minimal.
I'd say like meme coins have gotten a lot harder, but like two years ago, hitting like
a 200 X was nothing crazy.
But where we're talking, the sweet spot we see a lot of guys going in at markets is like
they're aiming for a three to four X.
So we can give them like So we can give them the analytics
an edge and alerts,
timely alerts to help them achieve that.
That's where we fall into play there.
And then I think the real fun thing, honestly,
that's really taking off is live sports betting.
So I was just looking at the odds
on a bullpen versus, say,
a regular sports book like FanDuel.
And Chargers Moneyline paid out 40, like was about 40 percent higher just on Polymarket than it would a regular sports book.
So, like I say that these markets are, although not as liquid, you get a much better like odds pricing.
And there's always a crazy arbitrage opportunities as well.
So I think that we're going to see a lot of, and it's really fun,
Zion, so handsome, he's a co-founder of Bullpen.
And the Eagles went down.
He's a big Eagles fan.
Eagles went down three touchdowns in the first half. And that was priced at, they basically had 10% odds of winning.
And then they came back and won.
So Z, I think he cashed out at 65, but if you held that to maturity to the end of the
game, that's a 10 X right there.
That is like Eagles down three X.
That's where we got now.
It's like, all right, the Eagles are down three touchdowns and they went into 10 X.
So we've seen a, like I had one of those situations with the Browns.
So I think it's kind of just like, you know, we all have an itch to speculate.
And if you think, you know, football, maybe that's your edge and you want to stick there and you can find a way to like, you know, you know, extract on that information.
That was a lot.
I think I saw Anson posting about that win today or yesterday.
Yeah, it's just different.
So, yeah, it's just different. It's interesting you talking about that, you know, because hindsight is 20-20.
It's interesting you talking about that, you know, because hindsight is 20-20.
And again, I've played those markets and, you know, have seen live bets and have done well sometimes.
But even in that space, it is very, very hard, even if you follow sports year-round.
Like this year, I thought the Bills were going to do a lot better.
But, you know, we see where that took us.
Yeah, I think it's just like we see, i've shadowed a lot of meme coin guys um you know guys that were sitting on terminals and trading bots for two years and they're honestly like they
hit us up like all right we're just gonna pivot to prediction markets because like we have to
like the trenches are literally dead you have a better odds of hitting a 4x on polymarket than
you are hitting like a 20x on a like on the in the trenches itself like pump fun so that's where like we've seen a lot of flows as interest
is shifting obviously there's just like everybody is piling in on like prediction markets that are
based on an order book um so i think that's like where this takes us i know that people like there's
two different groups it's about this is where it gets more generate. All right. So you have a 4X, you're at 20, 25% odds.
You have a 4X.
Let's say you're really feeling very confident.
They're building and leverage systems for these, uh, like every pod market position
is tokenized.
So you can technically like deposit into a lending protocol and borrow against it.
So you could get up to like certain markets, two to three X on that.
So you could, if you're three X long, like a 25% market that turns it into a 12 X if you're right.
That's where it gets a little degenerate. Now that's just popping up.
The, the groups providing that,
that service are just now getting funding and building. So I think that's where
like, well, we'll definitely explore doing that.
These things have to be robust before we do it, but that's,
that's kind of what we're seeing now is even more like take the you know take these binary outcome markets and then
juice them with you know margin is how we're seeing it and i do we agree can we agree that
that whatever x that you're multiplying like is proportional to the probability of you actually winning? I mean...
Not linear.
Can we agree with this relationship?
If you're 25, yeah, no.
So if the contract's priced at 25 cents
and resolves at a dollar,
if it's true, then that's a 4X.
I understand.
No, but can we agree that there is a relationship
between the amount of money
in terms of a multiplier if that's what we're using is inversely proportional with the odds
of you winning oh so i mean like life like in a lottery ticket in a in a in a stock in a gap well
i mean binary outcomes are slightly different than stocks because stocks don't like
finish. Right. But, um, but if we're talking about,
if we're talking about, Hey,
I'm going to put my money in hoping to get more out of it.
And you're using multiplier as a way to describe. All right. It's like,
all right, cool. This thing has this type of multiplier.
Can we agree that the higher that multiplier goes,
we can safely assume it has some sort of an inverse relationship
to the likelihood that you get that money.
I'd say that in one perfectly optimized and efficient world, yes.
Especially, it doesn't really turn out to be that way.
We're seeing on right now,
the position markets for sports,
just because you have guys that are starting using polymarket and call
sheet to hedge their centralized,
like,
you know,
sports books positions.
So there'll be times where like somebody,
an event happens and it should,
the odds should increase,
but they actually decrease.
So like we've seen,
I see,
I saw that happen with like a Browns,
you know,
game where like, Oh, they scored and the odds dumped. And that's when we just caught it. but they actually decrease. So I saw that happen with a Browns game
where they scored and the odds dumped.
And that's when we just caught it
and that was a win for us, right?
Live, I watched in the game and looking at the apps.
So I think that's the main issue right now
is these things should eventually become very efficient.
But right now there is serious inefficiencies
across the board.
There's a couple of different hedge funds hitting us up
because they wanted access and they're literally just trying to like arm
interest rate markets on the probabilities of interest rate markets so and and because of that
arbitrage between one market to another and i've seen this before from draft kings to fanduel
where literally you can you know bet uh you know a hundred dollars on this platform, uh, at a native one 10 odds and,
uh, you know, 200 on another platform at like native one, you know, negative 80 or something.
And there's just like, you can guarantee a profit of like five bucks, like, like nothing crazy,
but you know, there's definitely, uh, like, like however the algorithms work like it's different
from one platform to another and you can you can see it a lot more clear from cal sheath and i've
recognized that like like you're talking about it you know hedging and you know even in live sports
betting like i i guess the uh like you see someone taking a money line and if their money line's not
going to hit at the half at the half they'll you know double for the other team you know at the half and say like okay
you know at least i'll win some of my money back but but it'll still be a loss but not
a total loss you know so like there's ways of hedging in we're using fancy work yeah exactly
we're flattening the curve here and we're like, yeah, giving strategies out.
Like, you know, I guess that the question is the bigger implication, bigger picture
stuff, right?
Like, first of all, Wendy, thanks for coming.
I'm so glad to see you.
I obviously just randomly bump into you either in person or online on the last
last minute win.
Thanks for being here just to catch you up.
We started talking about gambling taxes,
and now we're giving out sports advice.
Trying to figure out how to make money now in this current market.
Oh, wonderful.
Yeah, no, thanks for having me.
I'm also having a space tomorrow with Keone from the Samurai Wallet team
because they're going after him, so we're trying to get him pardoned.
So if you guys can join that, that'd be great.
Oh, 100%.
Yes, yes, please.
I sent it to your...
Yeah, I tweeted it and I sent it to your DM.
But no, I'm here.
I'm happy to chat a little bit.
It's Sunday.
It's sports day.
And no, but they are...
I want it...
But Trump did come out and say
that he might consider removing taxes
from gambling, right? Yeah, no, that's... Yeah, exactly. You know, come out and say that he might consider removing taxes from gambling. Right.
Yeah, no, that's exactly. You know, I didn't read that to find like I didn't read the article, but just the headline.
And to me, you know, it's like I like to read into things.
And so when I see get rid of sports for sorry, Texas for gambling, I take it like to the 40,000 foot level and and and bring it to the point of like, okay, this, this actually
gets closer towards getting rid of short-term capital gains tax, right. Or, or the wash rule,
because if you're starting to blur the lines between gambling and sports, which is very clear
definition of gambling and let's get, let's say speculating on a shit coin. Um, it starts getting
a little blurry because then you have
coins that are slightly less shitty but they're still coins and then you have tokenized stuff and
so like uh by by by giving a tax break to gamblers it like instead of going from a legislative
standpoint of incentivize or giving incentives to retail
participants from the top down, meaning like, Oh, let's use, let's,
let's, let's lay off the wash rule or the short-term capital gains or these
big fancy words. Let's get rid of gambling tax, right?
Like he's using a very accessible way to define the same thing,
which is let's,
let's give a tax break on people guessing
and efforts to make money. It makes sense to me why they might do that. But at the same time,
then that could go into investments. And do you think that they really want to change any of the
taxes that they're receiving on people's various investments,
like with homes and those different types of things. That's my only point. I mean, we're
supposed to- I would like to write off my losses. That's it.
Well, yeah. I mean, I would not want to pay taxes at all. I'd rather just say, hey, I owe this much
that I need to donate or give back to certain entities. I think that'd be a way better or more
efficient way to pay taxes.
To be clear, to be clear, like the example I gave is I make a,
like I lose a hundred dollars with Tesla.
And then within 30 days I make a hundred dollars with Tesla.
The existing law says that I need to pay 30% or something.
Don't quote me like, but it's in that ballpark on that hundred dollar win
and i don't get even though i broker like even so i break even my big account is at zeros or
my brokerage but now i need now i owe the irs 30 bucks so that's that's like a punitive measure
right it's counterproductive so yeah i'm not trying to get rid of taxes because i like
police and fire and like firefighters that is you, you know, like I like militaries and stuff, but, but I think it's
attacking that, but sorry, I cut you off. I just need to make sure that context was.
No, I do. I know. I do understand, but I just, I don't know if they, like, I'm just trying to,
like, I would love for that to happen and I'll play the devil's advocate here. I just don't, I just don't necessarily see that happening as much as I
would want it to. But again, again, again, if we're bringing in as much as he they're claiming
on tariffs, then I don't see why they can't revamp a lot of the, the tax law that we have,
because a lot of it's outdated, a lot of's old it's not transparent and it's you know
that i feel like the like i would be i would be a lot more nervous if i got a letter from the irs
and if i had a police officer at my door yes i definitely agree with you um santa rally are we
getting one or not i don't like if you look at the charts today, I mean, Bullpen could probably answer that better than myself, but I don't think so.
I mean, it doesn't look like it, but I'm more than happy to be wrong.
Well, yeah, I guess.
I just created a new product in my head.
Okay.
Which one?
I'm not going to share it.
Nobody's listening.
It's like not recorded right now.
Tell you later.
I'm always listening.
I can hear hair grow on my mom.
A new edge to prediction markets.
You don't get to say that and then not say it.
You're right.
I shouldn't have said anything.
Let's say prediction's say uh prediction markets
with memes gamified yeah well you know they're launching they're launching um leverage prediction
markets out of asia right now like that's well that's that's coming which is crazy but yeah
i'm just like that i'm just even your eyes on that
that i'm not surprised i hadn't heard that but like like is it crazy that it's just like oh well
just just another ridiculously like that's i didn't have one on my 2025 bingo card i mean if
we if we went back you know a couple months to when the one guy on uh on 4chan or wherever it was predicted the exact top of
bitcoin to the day which which wasn't wasn't hard to get like roughly because of the cycle timing but
yeah if we'd have gone back to that and everyone shorted the market everybody would be in profit
right now especially if you could short memes and there's some apps that do that
especially if you could short memes another some apps that do that well nobody's shorts
I think it's an interesting concept that bullpen was bringing up before like having some kind of
scanner to analyze the predictive markets and you know uh like wallets that are taking place in big
bets and things like that like but we can all agree that the the Nancy Pelosi stock tracker
was a pretty good idea right uh and and you would think like even the gamification of predictive
markets like like if if you take the 4 000 point perspective or whatever like what if there take the 4,000 point perspective or whatever, like what if there was the top 10 predictors and we could see all their
predictions, right? Like,
like who predicted the best and had the most predictions and, you know,
is doing it good. Like we can pretty much find, you know,
like maybe either a time travelers or fortune tellers, right?
Yeah. It's kind of similar to wallet tracking, right?
Her memes and things.
No, no, no.
It's just like it.
Fundamentally, this is actually an interesting point.
When it comes to leveling the playing field,
keeping the Wall Street bets-ish related,
yeah, that's the one thing I love about crypto,
the tremendous amount of transparency behind it.
Yes, and your ability to just piggyback or copy trade or whatever.
If somebody has an advantage, whether it's because they're cheating or they're simply good at doing what they do, the, the, the ability to, uh,
take advantage of that. Thanks to the transparency is like, I think that's just enough positive for
everyone, except for the person that has the edge. So'm gonna i'm gonna bring in it i'm gonna see
you get yoni in here i don't know what time it is in israel but like i'd love to hear his
perspective on that last comment because uh last time i spoke to him he had a very strong opinion
but yeah i agree 100 i've got a question for you guys since we're talking about like tracking
wallets and you know because i'm sure like with, you're going to be able to do that. Just like the IRS
is going to be able to, to use AI to figure out who owes what in crypto. But you know, the DTC,
I want to say it was the DTCC and excuse me if I say any, give any incorrect information,
I'm like absolutely exhausted right now. But with the DTC, where the no action letter from the SEC to the DTCC, they basically
can tokenize everything.
They can tokenize bonds and ETFs and, and stocks.
And I want to say they settle like, like 8 trillion or something like that daily.
Would you guys think that they're going to be like, how do you think that they're going
to build that out?
Because clearly you can't necessarily track it as accurately as you want to.
Like, of course they have to, you know, know submit reports and do all that for the alleged transparency but i'm
just curious how that's going to work where they're tokenizing literally everything like the
entire the global stock market is it going to be public or are they going to use some create their
own system that's private their own system that's private i mean like you there's two ways to
interpret the question like what are the Like, what are the logistics involved?
Like, what are the logistics involved?
I'm glad I'm not involved, right?
Like, yeah, it's a nightmare.
Do they have a say in it?
Unfortunately, like, there's a little bit, because then you can even go further than that and say, now it's a national security issue, right? you get KYC out of the way, you get nations that can literally mingle
with somebody else's financial system
because they have an entry point.
That's obviously one extreme.
The other extreme is you get price discovery
has more voters,
and so you get greater efficiency.
How they're going to do it, I no idea if that was your question i don't pity the people that have to come up with it but if your
question was what are the implications of it that's fascinating like no well i mean that's like
a whole entire that's another topic for an entire space like really yeah the implications of it just
because like privacy is just a it's a very
interesting topic especially in crypto because we all want privacy but at the same time like
the blockchain is public and you can only be like pseudo anonymous to an or to an extent
well you don't need to know some of these you just need to know their ad so
in some of these things they can uh it can be a hybrid network where they can shield
like you basically can verify that.
And the main goal for tokenizing everything is just purely from an auditing perspective.
You can add a lot of efficiency on the logistical operations of everything.
But then, of course, you need to have privacy.
A lot of counterparties want to remain private.
So the way you do that, though, is you can basically use ZK knowledge or like CK shielding to basically prove,
somebody can prove that they have this much stock, but it won't tell, like, they won't, it won't say,
it won't give anything other, any other information on them.
So there's a ways to hide that.
And then like, just in general on, they like base on base, like Coinbase is L2.
You can like, they're adding stocks on chain, but they call these verified pools.
So your wallet
has to have like a kyc token like it's basically just like in the token it says i've kyc'd with
like a third party um and then you can like access these pools so that's how like you can't that's
one way to you know basically keep like yeah like i mean you can do like look if you want to if you
want to buy a fully regulated uh uh, certified audited, whatever government
approved, um, tokenized gold.
You have to KYC to mint one, right?
Because they're literally one to wanting it and they're putting it in a vault
and some cases literally putting a serial number on it.
But now that it's tokenized, you can literally throw it into a DeFi pool.
And so that the KYC is the guy that minted it.
And then, then it can just be thrown into the wild
and then you've lost control over that you can track well they're even put it they're putting
out you know they also these are smart contracts that have transfer transfer restrictions on them
so they can only be sent to other parties yeah so like they can only be it's basically just they
made their own like sub-sector of users.
Overall, I don't think it's that interesting.
I've chatted about with guys a lot about it a lot.
The only benefit would be,
oh, hey, I trade every day on chain.
I don't have to worry about sending my money to a brokerage.
I just want to buy this stock on chain
with a few clicks.
Then I can do that.
Overall, I think that...
Robinhood launched L2.
They have their own L2, but literally, it's just a closed garden like sure it's on
chain but it's just for internet like in robin hood international so overall like i think that
there's still a lot of like i it's a lot of people are better off still using robin hood or like
using like whatever uh brokers they want then going on chain it's like a small subset that
benefits from this at all right now i think so well i think one of the benefits like look whether you open okay let's look at it from
our user's perspective it doesn't know half of the words that we've just used and they just say
i would like to buy tesla i don't know why i keep mentioning it but uh i'm hoping elon musk joins uh
you can buy you open up your robin hood and let's say that you have the stock that you can
buy from the stock exchange or the tokenized version of it, whatever. They don't care, right?
The price is going to move up and down the same, but there is a very, very important caveat to
that, which is stock traders go to home at 4 p.m. And you can say after hours if you really want.
You can say futures if you really want.
But none of it is 24-7.
Like, today is Sunday night.
If a thing happens, the only, like, infrastructure for the financial mechanism that can react to it instantly is crypto, period.
that can react to it instantly is crypto period.
And so like if you infer is for MD that was talking about
actual sophisticated, like from a CFA level,
responsible way of managing money,
like that system is fucked because if you,
for people that go through the responsible investing approach, they rely on risk management.
And risk management, this is the own science.
And I'll just stupefy it and say, if I'm a risk manager, if we lose 2%, then sell, period.
Right?
Let's just say that's the rule for simplicity's sake.
And if something happens right now, it causes something to go down, I don't know, 10%, they have to wait till tomorrow morning to sell at 10%.
And they've now 8% below their threshold, which then means domino effect.
You then like have, you get margin called, I mean, like, I'm not going to get into the rabbit hole there.
But that has repercussions because you were expecting
your risk tolerance relied on a 2% loss. And because the market was closed and couldn't react
in time, then domino effect bad. So systemically speaking, tokenizing stocks at the very least
allow even normal stockholders to get exposure real time so that they can short the tokenized
stock so they can break even, you know, like they can mitigate the damage that's done because
some, like, I think it takes more effort to keep the markets closed.
It's a setting on a computer somewhere.
I don't understand why they do that.
By the way, Crypto Empress, I see that you're here.
I sent you an invite. I don't know if uh uh okay maybe you did actually request
it's interesting that you're saying those things but because anybody that's in the space like if
you're saying oh i have a two percent risk tolerance you know like all right i'm gonna put
you in a bond or get you in a cd like it we're going to get you into something that's guaranteed and there's you know like even stocks are considered high risk right like that that that loss uh
you know volatility or or risk tolerance that like most large uh companies like a vanguard or
merrill lynch like if you go to them and say oh i i I don't, you know, I'm at a 2% tolerance, like you're not even
touching stocks or ETFs. No, but you're talking, no, no, that's a retail perspective. No, I'm
talking if you are a Vanguard, right? And if you are managing somebody else's portfolio that doesn't
know what they're talking about, and you have to make a decision as to how you're going to like,
use this money to manage it, you yourself have to have your own internal risk strategy and it doesn't
work if the stock market is closed when the catalyst takes place.
Right?
So you as the guy that knows shit, not like the retail guy that actually
wants to buy Tesla, but you as the responsible, educated, you know, like,
you know, that if you could, because you have collateral requirements, right?
Like, you're forcing me to get technical.
Let's suppose a part of your strategy is to short something.
You know that if you start losing money on that, you have to put up more collateral, right?
You get a margin call, right?
You have to, in some cases, if you don't have that money, that means you have to sell other stocks to do it.
So. So what they do is instead of like avoiding marginal, they say, I'll short something.
And if I go past as a manager, as a as a fund manager, you say, I'll short something.
And if it goes past this loss, I will cut my losses because otherwise I face bigger problems down the line.
You as a fund manager cannot execute on your own risk strategy because the market's strictly asleep.
That's a problem, right?
Like your ability to pull off a really cool formula or a cool strategy doesn't work because the market's closed. And so that's what I believe that tokenized anything
automatically gives a structural integrity,
like it strengthens the financial system as a whole.
It's not about gamblers for two in the morning.
And it's not about being exposed to like like volatility it's it's the people that know
what they're doing like call your buddy right now at schwab and tell him to sell the stock because
there's a bad thing that's happening tomorrow he can't there's no button that lets him do it
so but but it's interesting too because like you're saying, you know, like it's very hard to compare a big hedge fund, you know, like Ray Dalio's Bridgewater to, you know,
just a basic retailer, right?
Like the, like, like I even went to school for finance and the tools that we, you know,
learn to use to manage portfolios was a million dollar application that like, I'm not going
to get out of school and have access to this as a Joe Schmo.
Like the school is paying a ton of money to have access to this programming, you know, that,
that big, you know, hedge funds and big, you know, Chase Bank and, you know, Citi or Capital One
use every day to, to, you know, create portfolios for clientele you know like they have uh the the
funds and they have the means to use things that regular people don't have access to you know same
with like AI you know like like Ray Dalio even talks in his book principles like how he built
one of the largest head funds in the world leveraging, you know, advanced AI and simulations to simulate markets, you know, from, you know, the 1800s forward.
And he was able to, you know, make predictions based on, you know, analytics and analysis using AI and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
using AI and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and you know, in his own, um, like positioning,
like the portfolio that costs $250,000 just to get in, just to, to put your money into the,
the ETF or whatever he put together for his clients, you need $250,000 to start. And then I think you're guaranteed like
a 12 and a half percent, uh, return, but it's been like 14 and a half percent, you know, year over
year. And, and, and I actually think it's been doing, doing better. Um, but like there's certain
gates that are gate kept or like there's certain costs to play at certain levels right and even the tools that that again we
we have access to like like you're even talking about shorting a stock and oh if if a stock uh is
going up and a big hedge fund is losing all this money like they have to get out like no they don't
necessarily have to do that like they could call their buddy at citadel and say like hey like i i
need you to front not if it's sunday
talking about two different things yeah like yeah like i think that you yeah we're speaking about
different things um i agree with everything you're saying um but but like my point is that
their buddies at citadel they can't literally right now it's where i am 7 p.m on sunday i can have every friend in the world the market is
closed so like so they are they are susceptible oh let me just interrupt myself uh crypto i'm
through emperors i've tried sending you invites um if you can request as a listener maybe that'll
work yeah it's not working for me i'm i'm yeah my god my control control locked up. My point is, on one hand, we're talking strategies and who's got the advantage.
We could talk about accredited investors and we can talk about the idea of saying a fund doesn't need money to do whatever like that's that's a conversation that is hyper specific to
that's a i don't know it's it's it's a mundane conversation the the the bigger picture conversation
is sparked from the tokenization of stuff in the securitization of stuff uh including event
binary event contracts uh which now can include sports gambling.
And now you're talking about putting leverage
on top of those.
Like, I mean, you're just using financial wizardry,
which is a topic.
It's like, what does that mean for the world?
The implication of,
just go ahead and finish your same thought thought process but now put it under the
vantage point of saying they now have an additional resource which is to uh react
real time so yes he's got a friend so his friend can't do shit until tomorrow morning right and
and the thing is like we all can
agree here as logical reasonable people that the future is blockchain and tokenization period i i
don't like even bitcoin you can't you know with with what we have seen in crypto like you said
you know like almost immediate transactions no no fees you know we've been saving with with tax and
transactions, no, no fees. You know, we've been saving with, with tax and, and, and there's,
you know, that the authentication verification and, and the highest security possible through
this, this transfer of funds through the chain and et cetera, et cetera, like all these things,
like we can all agree just as, as normal, logical people, reasonable people that, that use this
stuff, like, yeah, this makes more sense than fiat and and some of these
things that we're seeing real time and and are a witness to uh are are better than normal uh
financial institutions and and the the old way of doing things period you know so like the the
question that that lied when Bitcoin you know came to market years ago and and even today it's just like when when is
everybody going to catch up and when is it going to be like more mainstream that this is just a
normal thing like everybody uses uh you know we see it with square right like square is finally
accepting bitcoin where people have square spaces you know like things are moving but slow um and and I do
think that uh like hopefully people like you and I like we do have crypto we do know how to utilize
it and you know there's certain things that like tokenization is helping people to today that use
it and it's efficient and it makes sense um but it's not
quote unquote scaled it's not like it's still not a mainstream everybody's doing this you know
oh i agree but but but we can also agree that some people are like uh the blockchain technology is
already being used without people's knowledge to do stuff whether it's like social media or
sending money across countries like using whatever just some like send money across
the country.com or whatever like there's already mechanisms by which they can do instant settlements
like we have because of its speed
and because of its whatever trust system.
Like the infrastructure, we agree, is superior and it's going to be able to be there.
The tokenization, meaning you now have the same thing replicated in two places.
What does it mean if you have Tesla trading on the blockchain simultaneously is the other one.
My argument is saying we have now made the financial system more resilient to disrupt catalysts, like the fragility that takes place because the Tesla that is tokenized,
just to, I guess, I'll appease you and say the S&P 500, right?
Like if you tokenize the ETF,
then the S&P ETF is going to be more vulnerable
than the S&P token strictly because the SMP
token has real time periods, right?
Like it's just, I don't know.
Like I think it's a net positive that we're getting these cross pollination things.
The bigger question, the big can of worms which I
think I think Wendy O just dipped out when I said like national security KYC like all that other
shit she's like yep yep I'm out um uh yeah crypto emperors how can we get you up here I'm done well
I mean I'm not disagreeing with anything that you're saying and and i think you're spot on and just the reality
of it like tokenization and having you know like immediate settlement uh you know not needing a a
quote-unquote clearing house where you send documents to get approved and then you know
once that person over here accepts it you know like it it could be Monday morning when the market opens, you know, um,
like the there there's efficiencies that are out there. There's tools out there that are
doing the things that need to be done at scale. And I think just like any kind of good legislation
legislation or legislation in general, like most private companies or a lot of people,
like they don't want, uh, these things to happen, right?
Like, because they've already, uh, they already see the flaws in the market and they're able
to take advantage of those flaws.
So like, once those flaws are fixed, then they can't keep doing what they've been doing to get,
you know, I don't want to say like, you know, money laundering or things like that. But there's
some sketchy things that happen in the market that tokenization, blockchain, transparency,
privatization, all these things that that should be happening you know would actually
be a net negative for big hedgies you know net positive for for retail yeah maybe net positive
for small business yeah but like for the people that that run the world you know probably not
like because because if it was a net positive for them, it would happen quicker, right?
Jamie, I think some people have just been getting rugged
by spaces here.
Yeah, I'm trying.
I ended up inviting
whatever,
the party account to
because otherwise I'd end up doing
echoes and whatever. We'll just keep going
and see what happens.
We get all these updates, but we still aren't getting the fixes for spaces.
You know what drives me nuts about this thing is I have, like,
if you use Android, it's a different experience on iPhone,
different experience on desktop, literally different buttons.
I can't, like, schedule a tweet on my Android,
but I used to be able to but
they took that one away now you can do it with something else i don't know oh wait uh never mind
um whatever we'll just keep going but what i do what i do want to say before i i head out like
first of all i appreciate you guys just having me on and having a conversation with with you guys i
think you're very knowledgeable and and you know, like the changes of the times and
even like to have like a finger on the pulse or to hear, you know, what's going on in the markets
is important. And to have a space like this where we can get together and just talk like, you know,
and just talk like, you know, just normal people.
Just, I think this is great.
So keep doing this, you know,
and hopefully there's more that comes of it, you know?
Yeah, no, I, yeah, no, you're very welcome.
I mean, I do appreciate very much perspective.
I do appreciate very much your perspective.
I very much welcome experienced and well-informed opinions,
as well as those from, I don't know,
like you have the unique vantage point of being able to speak from,
because you started speaking as a retailer,
but you have the wisdom of an institution.
So thank you very much for your perspective.
It was a
uh a pleasant surprise but and and it's interesting because you know like my background is finance and accounting um but but i will say like it you know from a political stance
you know any kind of taxation like bullish brought up the the fact that like okay we're gonna fix
this taxation on gambling because we're
trying to, uh, you know, speak to a large, like clearly a lot of Americans gamble. And,
and if you help out the gamblers, then, you know, it's, it's just like Bernie Sandy or
yeah, Bernie Sanders saying like, I'm going to take away student loans. And then, you know, even,
um, uh, did, did he do that? No, but, but he, he did speak to a lot of people that,
that have significant student loans and it, and it makes sense. So like, if, if you're going to
help out gamblers, then maybe, maybe, you know, some of those gamblers will like you because it,
you impacted their life in a positive manner. Right. Um, but you know, taxation is written for people that know tax law.
And, like, I advise and help investors and people that make a lot of money to work on their tax strategy.
And those that pay less in taxes but make a lot of money, you know, they find leverage in other avenues like real estate.
You know, I think, you know, I'm a big advocate of real estate.
I have a real estate portfolio.
You know, it's hard to get into that market
or into that category.
Again, the gate to get in to, you know,
that kind of strategy is tough today.
And I think if tokenization and blockchain
help more people tap into that market,
I think that's a net positive. Like, let's say you and your buddies want to go into an investment
property that could potentially tap into the 100% bonus you know, is now allowed due to the big, beautiful bill,
right? Like that's a great strategy, but there's a huge, you know, um, barrier to entry, you know,
you have to come up with a lot of money down and how do we, how can you do that efficiently
utilize that strategy by yourself? You know, like, like when we went to school in college,
right. Me and my buddies all put together, uh, you know, money and we got a four bedroom place
and we split the rent four ways. Right. And, and we had to do that on our own accord because there
wasn't necessarily a tool that made that easy. Like we just all had to shake hands and say like, yo,
like you got your part of your rent, right. You know, but we're all going in, you know, like I
think, um, you know, hopefully tokenization might bridge that gap, uh, in the future for like even
homeownership. Like it would be cool to get an investment property easier with with
multiple people right like if that's uh well you know and to be fair like yeah nothing will and
hopefully nothing does happen overnight because that means it will have been implemented like
poorly but yeah i think the the just like my analogy about large cap being a cruise ship that is harder to rock the boat, so to speak.
So is a system that's been in place for decades and centuries.
But if like there's changes to start at least, you know, you can you can take your you can take your cruise ship and you can turn the left three degrees.
And two weeks later, you're like seven hundred miles off court off court you know like give it time point in a
new direction and then that's progress and just uh and and it should be done not abruptly overnight
because uh then there's this unforeseen you know like i so i was having a conversation last night
i live in mexico and i guess i didn didn't know this, but the previous president decided to rename some streets.
Just because he's, whatever.
I'm not going to complain, but thought it was a good idea.
So he just did it straight up.
Just legally said, go change the street sign.
Put it into whatever paperwork it needs to be.
I don't even know what it takes to rename a
street officially but uh they just did it right and then when people tried to sell their home
or pay property taxes like it didn't compute like the system they're like sorry you don't your house
doesn't exist like like you know and it's such such a funny example of what happened.
Yeah.
Sounds like a Mexico thing.
It's funny because that analogy might work there.
But like, there's another analogy where there was private ownership granted due to new legislation in a country overseas.
And what happens when people actually have private property they
actually started to uh take take better care of their their homes and you know slum and shanty
times hey baby give me a second um um but but like she wants to speak up yeah right right
early investors yes early wall street bets but But that's like overnight, they had private ownership due to a new law being passed, but you know, it was actually, uh,
the opposite. So, so like there is some things that like, if it was changed overnight, like it
could be a net positive, you know? So like, um, but, but, but like, like you said, not, not
everything, you know, and, and maybe not a bunch of, you know, cuts by death by a million cuts
per se, like a bunch of streets,
you know, things that can really disrupt like a network, like you're talking about in Mexico.
But, um, but like some, some certain, um, aspects I do think like could, could be a net positive,
like simply put, like if all banks allowed free transfers from one place to another without
charging you 50 bucks, like that makes sense to another without charging you 50 bucks like that
makes sense in my mind you know like that and that could happen overnight because we could do that
but they still want to make that 50 bucks you know or even the three and a half percent transfer fee
if you call in like to me i think that's theft and i think that's stupid um but you know um
again i appreciate you guys having me on
and I do have to get my daughters
ready for Bethlehem school tomorrow
but thanks
for the conversation and
keep doing what you guys are doing, you guys are awesome
no thank you very much
for coming here
thanks for sharing
yeah very much
I don't know if I know how to do this properly
I want to see if I can figure it
yeah keep getting messages from people getting rocked.
I sent the advice to a bunch of you guys that are on top.
So if you guys want to speak, please dial on a request.
We're doing what we can to try and figure this thing out.
But, you know, this actually leads to this even bigger picture concept,
which is Wall Street Bets started on the heels and
started crypto for that matter on the heels of the financial crisis where there was a obviously
using my phone to co-host um actually my mute yes uh so i i uh wall street bet started around
the same time as crypto did you know arguably with similar incentives right and certainly
some similar circumstances which is post-financial crisis and uh for anyone in my demographic which is the older millennials
were either fresh out of college in college or getting out of college and we just had it rough
and uh occupied wall street and 99 percent versus the one percent the inequalities and
and and that gave birth to uh a lot of what we see today.
You know, retail, crypto, what changes we're seeing.
We're no longer, I mean, there's a lot of people here that probably, yeah, read about the financial crisis in history books at this point, or they will pretty soon.
And, uh, and so it's just a different situation.
And so it's just a different situation.
And one of the things that, that is, is caught my attention.
If we had a, a, a party in Singapore and token 49, 20 or 49.
And one of the things that to me was remarkable was really, right.
We had.
Uh, impersonator for the wall street bats guy we had uh tattoo like artists we had uh
i don't know bathtub full of gold tokens yeah you name it yeah you go find the video so this is the
most dj thing you could possibly imagine and there was just this epiphany to me that there were a lot of the dgens getting tattoos and throwing
the toilet around and beating well like people were beating both CEOs of publicly traded
we had crown princes we had ministers of countries we had literally CEO Goldman Sachs
I mean the one percent was standing right alongside the 99%.
And they were just as DGN enough.
And it just hit me like, holy shit.
Like it's now 100% versus a system that's broken.
You have like the president of El Salvador, I believe is younger than I am.
I don't know.
But if anything, he's close.
And he certainly
was in his 20s
when this financial crisis hit.
And he now leaves the country.
So the narrative
has shifted so much
so that it's no longer,
oh, it's the poor little guys,
not poor meeting,
how much money to have,
but like the unfortunate
or powerless little guys versus the powerful big guys.
A lot of these individuals that were in positions of occupying Wall Street
are now in positions of influence,
whether it be through private sector or public sector or you name it.
They've grown up and they are demanding that same,
same amount of change, which to me is fascinating.
If you ask me to like predict as far as where I see things going and where I'd
like to see things going.
And I'm certainly making a strong push for it is given that you have a lot of
people you know, I'm sure if if i got like i sent an invite to
like scare mooch and stuff i don't think he's on here but like yeah you have people that that are
the establishment and when you hear them speak they have the same complaints that that we do
on a lot of stuff like they also want to lower the barriers of entry for
accredited investors they do want to make this easier for retail you can make the argument that
some of them want to do it so that we can get cannibalized we meaning retail right like jp
morgan jp morgan salivating at the idea that crypto gets decriminalized or regulated or whatever,
because they are straight up better than retail is at this game.
And so they'll straight up rob us, right?
Which is fine.
It's fair.
And they should be allowed to be able to do that.
But to that same extent, they're also borrowing the same technologies in order to, I don't
know, settle transactions faster and do all sorts of different, I don't know, uh, sell transactions faster and do all sorts
of different, like, you know, I, whatever MD the left mentioned that the Robin has got
their own private L2 and this, that the other.
And I, there's an extremely palpable movement and it's worldwide too.
Uh, when it comes to this. Once again, now specifically
Wall Street bets was very US
based because it was about the American
stock market. Occupy Wall Street
was occupying a street
in New York and
satellite ones in different major cities.
when
GameStop happened,
only people that had access to the U.S. stock market could actively participate in purchasing the stock.
You can get exposure through whatever derivatives and stuff, but as far as putting buying pressure.
Now it's a globalized world.
And now, like, I feel there's this need of wanting people to come together.
And I'm actually kind of excited about that.
You know, I'm excited about the fact that half the people in the video that you just referenced,
bathing in a bathtub full of gold coins, were just fucking around like DGENs when they had to go back to work,
whenever they went back to work, being the CEO of a publicly traded company.
That says a lot to me.
You know, that is a very wonderful message.
I don't know if there's any, I don't know if we succeeded to bring more speakers.
Let's see.
We got Harry something or another.
Oh, we got a new request. Let's see if we got Harry something or another. Oh, we got a new requestee.
Let's see if I can approve.
Anybody else that wants to chime in?
I've been desperately trying from both of my accounts to add voices here.
I also don't want to drag this out too long,
but I got two new speakers on here if you guys want to say something.
We probably want to touch on Miami too, huh?
Come to Miami yeah I guess I can say that let me see like you do you know how to do a um do you know how to post a
thing how do you post how do you post in here oh just go to go to whatever
piece of media it is and then
Share and then you can share into the group or into the space. I
Think that's how it works
If friend was so
Somehow I stopped listening sure to space
Let's see if that did the thing
Okay, I lost the audio
say something Sam
yep still here
okay yeah
yeah okay I figured it out
yeah
there were some speakers I brought you up if you want
please feel free to chime in but yeah might as well take
advantage
for those of you guys are here,
we're having,
you know,
as an inspiration
from the post-Singapore thing,
we got this tremendous,
tremendous support from
everyone.
Crypto,
traditional finance,
entrepreneurs,
thought leaders,
philosophers,
like literally half of Davos. But when thought leaders, philosophers, like literally
half of Davos.
When I say Davos, like the World Economic Forum, what's the name of the guy that owns
the, it's called One, something, it's like the UFC for all of Asia.
Just, you know, individuals that are part of the Young Global Leaders, a subject of
that, they're all like, dude need to push this this this forward because there
is an opportunity here where this global mindset of retail right like you know there's this nice
little chapter in history now called game stopper there was a little battle and the traders bought a
lot of stocks and you know, they beat the hedge funds.
And it was a very inspiring, I'm not going to like minimize that.
Put Wall Street bets on the map, but it's just a chapter in history.
And I like, did you realize it given the, the multiple things, the technology
and the globalization and the fact that there is now a,
like the world can now participate to that same extent in order to affect change.
And right now we're in the middle of a lot of change.
AI, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but like crypto crypto that doesn't need to be said uh politics geopolitics
uh just you know the whole concept of finance and valuation has changed like so there's so much
change like uh there is an opportunity here for the collective uh retail to once again collaborate and cooperate and uh that inspired this this miami
conference this taking place in january at the end of january uh 28th through the 30th where
the guy and the team that created the world-renowned bitcoin, North American Bitcoin conference, which is like the longest running crypto conference. It's where
Vitalik launched ETH.
I don't know, Google it. It's
big. And then started
WagMe event. He literally
dropped his yearly event
to the point where I'm getting hate mail from some
of the big fans of it so that
he could do this one instead.
Definitely trying to do a shout out for that one because it is dgens meet davos the speakers i don't know like i don't think
the website is actually uh up to date with the the actual speakers but quite literally the the
people that are going both as participants and speakers,
is just, I've never seen such a diverse panel.
In fact, I wish Wendy O was still on here because, yeah,
because there's a lot of people that we're going to, the topics covered,
this isn't either a crypto or finance.
This is a let's change the world situation, right? We lot of people that are I just call it legally persecuted CZ
pardoned um
yeah we got quite a few good speakers yeah I'll refrain from safe stuff just for whatever. But like, you know, you could, if
I was a gambling man,
yeah, like
whatever, I'm not going to get myself
in trouble. There's going to be plenty of people that are
being persecuted, right? Like some people
are like in France arrest because
they refuse to hand over the encryption keys.
You have like the polymarket
guy that like, I guess,
split the election you have
you have so many individuals that uh
they were jailed for for a speeding ticket because they pissed off the wrong people
uh which is which is kind of what i want to wendio but in addition to that you're going to
have a lot of individuals that uh obviously from crypto and
finance and uh and from all over the world so yeah definitely if you if you haven't checked
it out i i pinned it at the top just to tweet with the link i can have some names here you got martin
shrek i think pronouncing the last name yeah you got jordan belford worthful mr wolf of wall street Jordan Belfort, Mr. Wolf of Wall Street. We've got Zach Friedman, Scott Melker, Jeremy Miner, Brittany Kaiser, Mo Levin, Anthony
Scaramucci, Matt Rozak, Enzo Villani, Brock Pierce.
This list has been getting bigger.
Nice. Lots more. brock pierce masio's list has been getting bigger nice lots more no it's an impressive panel like yeah just go to the website check it out and i'm telling you guys
i know for a fact that website is out of date because as of this morning
i confirmed another dozen individuals that, once again,
I'm not going to start throwing out their names out until,
until we've been given permission to, because I don't want to like burn bridges,
but if and when their name is thrown out, there's just an incredible opportunity.
And it was pointed out to me that like,
and I noticed after going to a lot of these conferences that the amount of
value that you get when you get a lot of
individuals in the same area,
shit happens. And like the industry speeds up by six months at least, right? Like you have just a
lot of things. And this is a cool opportunity just because it's not a crypto conference and it's not a money 2020 expo it is literally a retail uh or just gen z slash millennial
uh collective coming together organized from around the world hoping to collectively send a
message that we can now collaborate and cooperate now with regards to the wall street bets entities
which exist everywhere on reddit Twitter, on Discord, multiple instances, derivative instances, right?
Indian StreetBets, Satocia StreetBets, KStreetBets, and then people that don't even use the StreetBets
banner that just go by their own, you know, 1DOs.
Yeah, I forgot to invite her.
I'll send her a message.
We all have to after the same thing and
and you know instead of having this big circle jerk it's like let's actually do something and
the energy that we get so uh for anybody that is in miami definitely you should get a a seat before
they get sold out the tickets are now open for sale.
And if you're not in Miami, you should really consider
it's going to be quite a blast.
And also there's going to be some pretty
announcements that are worth
advantage because we want to make it worth everyone's while so i'm getting i'm getting
half drugged half rugged i'm getting half rugged every now and then when you're talking i don't
know if it's just me or if it's your or if it's just you being a robot but
most of the message is coming through yeah
okay well at that point like i don't know like at this point yeah we don't have any speakers all
the speakers that i invited come disappeared so and you can't really recover from like that
because uh unless i have any invitees which i don't i think this is a good spot for
uh for me this especially if you can't hear me so yeah i want to call it a night uh yeah thanks
everybody for coming sorry for the technical difficulties i'm going to see if i can
and get some some twitter space specialists i'm told if i get an iphone that these things work
better so i'll consider that for next time in the, definitely check out wsblive.com.
You can see all the
information that you need.
We should probably do a weekly
space going up to the event.
Yeah.
We've got all sorts of things.
Anyways, have a wonderful rest of your evening.
Happy
Monday tomorrow if it's still sunday for you all right thanks guys
