Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
🎙️WEB3 | +C.O.C ft Chia Network CEO Gene Hoffman | DRVN Labo |
Recorded: Aug. 1, 2025 Duration: 2:02:22Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, Gene Hoffman of Chia Network unveiled innovative projects and partnerships aimed at revolutionizing the blockchain landscape, while Rex from Driven Labo introduced a unique platform for fractional ownership of collector cars, merging automotive culture with Web3 technology.
Full Transcription
Thank you. The Community of communities, we rise. X-Space is buzzin', truth ain't disguised.
Friday, Saturday, these voices amplify.
Together we're strong, unites are pie.
Thy revolution, words like heavy artillery.
Bacon sandwich, co-host, the mental artillery.
Late in the week, X marks our territory.
Stories unfold, shaking our narrative, no allegory.
Community of communities, we rise
Big spaces, us and truth, they disguise
Friday, Saturdays, voices amplified
Together we're strong, unity's our guide
Thy revolution words like heavy artillery
Baking sandwich, co-hosts feeding mental artillery
Late in the week, X marks our territory
Stories unfold, shaking our narrative, no allegory
Community of communities, we rise
X spaces buzzin', truth ain't disguise
Friday, Saturdays, voices amplify
Together we're strong, unity's our guy
Fridays live with discussion, minds intertwine
Saturdays replay.
Thoughts age like fine wine.
From dark to dawn.
Follow the growth line.
In these spaces.
Innovations to shine.
Mental health and spotlight.
No need for stage fright.
Communities.
Torchbearers.
Keeping it bright.
This EV.
Soothing tones.
Healing and nightlight.
With our collective strength.
Futures ignite. Keep your students all in feeling a nightlight With our collective strength, future's ignited
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Community of Communities, a groundbreaking Web3 movement
that celebrates the diverse tapestry of human creativity, innovation, and collaboration.
In a world characterized by unprecedented connectivity and decentralization, the Community
of Communities stands as a testament to the power of collective ingenuity.
Together, we'll discover the limitless possibilities
of the Web3 movement and the remarkable individuals
and communities who are shaping the future.
Stay tuned for a showcase of inspiration, collaboration,
and boundless creativity as we dive deep into the heart
of the community of communities.
Welcome aboard.
I now bring you our host, Thy good afternoon happy friday welcome to the community
communities web free space thank you everyone that is already in the room you guys are absolutely
legendary we have an awesome space lined up for you guys tonight we are featuring once again the
amazing gene offman and we are also interviewing for the first time drvn lab as well so we're super excited about that
now as always first of all massive appreciation to everyone that's dropped a comment dropped a
like showed out the space and all the guys that have been showing it out prior to the space starting
as well as always we will do a quick brief breakdown of how we conduct the spaces just
so everyone knows what to expect then we'll introduce our co-hosts and our core team and
then we'll introduce our first guest for tonight so as always we do a two-hour space featuring two guests giving each
guest up to 60 minutes each to break down their ecosystem now of course you don't have to utilize
the full 60 minutes but most people usually do we do this in a conversational type style just to
make it nice and laid back and relaxed so that people can really listen in and they can learn
and they can do the research and they can ask questions and it also helps the people who are
building and developing in the space to kind of really unpack the hundreds if not thousands of
hours of effort that they put into the space so now the boring bit's out of the way thank you
everyone for joining hope you're all having a fantastic friday so far we'll jump into introducing
our co-host and core team and then we will introduce our guests for this evening.
So first of all, we have the Bacon Sammage in the building.
How are we doing, Bacon?
Happy Friday, sir.
Yes, good evening, boys and girls.
Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world.
Yeah, no, it's Friday already.
I've had a busy week this week.
I've got my slippers on, got a cup of tea so i'm
sorted uh i'm all ready to go wicked let's go glad you're having a good friday so far
yeah in the studio friday and in the studio as well if no one knows what the studio is
you will definitely find out before the space is out that's for sure but very British cup of tea
can't go wrong no I'm gonna put the kettle
on myself actually it's gonna be a good one tonight so uh thank you very much bacon we will
be back with you in just a moment sir we also have a z3 in the building as well z3 happy friday my
friend how we doing happy friday how are you i hope you're good i am doing well thank you sir
you having a good evening so far?
Yeah, good. I'm just going to make a cup of tea and chill out and listen to the space.
Let's go. Wicked. Nice one, Z. Sounds like we're all having a cup of tea.
We might have to get Gene to make a cup of tea as well, actually, and then no one feels left out. And DRVN. As long as there's no microwaves involved in the making of said cup of tea, we won't have any problems.
But no, nice one, Z. Appreciate that, brother. drvn as long as there's no microwaves involved in the making of said cup of tea we won't have any problems but uh no nice ones they appreciate that brother we'll say a quick hello to drvn as well as you are the second guest so you'll be listening to gene first so we'll say hello to
you now so apologies i'm not sure your name is just yet but uh drvn uh happy friday my friend
how are we hey happy friday this is rex behind the mic. And just for reference, we pronounce it Driven, Driven Labo.
So you don't have to spell it out anymore.
Yeah, given it's a Friday and I'm American, I'm going to be kicking my socks off and popping a beer here soon.
So joining you in spirit, just American style.
just american style i'm glad you clarified on the pronunciation of the name because rev has a
traditional history of absolutely butchering cheap people's names like for example uh rev's
done it already tonight uh with gene hoffman by calling gene offman um so uh we're off to a flying
start i was hoping no one heard that it's the accent i can't help it it just uh the accent comes out but
uh you know thank you uh rex i appreciate that i thought it represented driving um i heard a
space she was on not so long ago talking about your ecosystem and uh i had a little look into
who you guys are and what you're doing thought it was really cool so uh i just thought i'd try
and get it right first and uh yeah i've got it wrong again so appreciate that rex and uh yeah
definitely good to catch up with you we'll be back with you very shortly so uh that being said we will move over
to our first guest for tonight the amazing gene hoffman uh gene happy friday sir how are we
i'm good it is a friday i'm a little bit further out west so bureau clock is a few more hours away
but still wicked that's awesome well uh yeah hopefully uh by the
time we're through the space it will be just in time for you to uh enjoy the remainder of your
evening but uh no thank you for joining us once again we always look forward to uh speaking with
you there's always lots that has taken place within our conversations and i'm i'm sure you've
got lots to talk about again but uh just in case there is anyone in the space that is new to who you are which i doubt there'll be any
but you never know are you able to just give a brief breakdown of um if who you are and what it
is that you do that would be awesome if if there is a brief version of what you do because there
is a lot there is a lot i apologize in advance for that so i'm gene hoffman i'm ceo of chia
network chia network. is the software
company that launched the Chia blockchain, which is a totally decentralized blockchain we have no
control over. The most decentralized smart contract blockchain, and I could say the only
most decentralized, but for the fact that Bitcoin's node counts up these days.
But so Chia Network is a software company. We support the Chia blockchain. We support users of the Chia blockchain, folks like the World Bank and the CAD Trust. And almost all voluntary carbon is reported on chain. I'd say it's 98%, but I can't check the stat, but it's darn close to that number. is doing is taking the largest dividend paying stocks in the world and splitting them into two
new stocks, one that is a dividend only, and the other is the rest of the asset. We call those ACs
and DCs, asset certificates and dividend certificates. We're going to list those on
the New York Stock Exchange and the Chia blockchain. We're on our fifth turn with the SEC
and just about to wrap up there and really just getting the last pieces in place to start trading those here in the summer. You had me at ACDC. So there are obviously
different types of stocks. There are dividend stocks and there are non-dividend stocks. Is
that where the divide is? So for right now, we're going to focus on about 85 that are paying dividends.
There are a couple that are paying such a small dividend that we aren't sure where break-even would be for them just yet. But we expect to learn a lot on those first couple trusts. We've got three filed right now, Microsoft, Apple, and Broadcom. And once we have a little better sense of what the Create Redeem revenue looks like, you know, obviously folks like Nvidia would get on our radar very quickly. So I'm really intrigued with the Permuto stuff, because it's, I mean,
how is it different from what's happening on Solana with their tokenized assets?
It's very different. So first of all, the real innovation in Bermuda is in two
places. One is being able to actually split like a share of Microsoft into two new shares.
It turns out that's a regulatory difficult problem. And we're doing it in a way where
it's backed one to one. So if you've got a dividend certificate and an asset certificate,
you can come back to us and we'll give you that Microsoft share back.
And that is all at US Bank. It's audited by Pricewaterhouse. Our attorneys are scadden.
You know, we've had multiple meetings with the SEC crypto task force. And then the other thing that's radically different is that it is much cheaper to manage this on a blockchain. The DTC
costs of like pushing through a stock split or even paying the dividends is just
so much more expensive and painful in the traditional world compared to online. And,
you know, one of the things we've been talking to the market makers about, you know, they kind of
looked up and went, hey, wait a minute, I could sell short on the New York Stock Exchange and go
long on the Chia blockchain and settle on the Chia blockchain in five minutes and now be perfectly
hedged without a two-day settlement or now I guess it's a 24-hour settlement these days.
So the thing you get on the blockchain is the security. It's not a wrapper. It's not a derivative.
It's not a securities-based swap. So almost everything else you're seeing is some one of
those. You're
going to have to trust somebody, and that trusted somebody usually doesn't have an SEC license. Now,
maybe they're a broker-dealer, maybe they're an ATS. We're going to have a registered S1,
so you get to see all the details, and ultimately, we're going to be audited by Pricewaterhouse,
so you get the chance to know for sure that, yeah, all those shares are where they're supposed to be.
So it's a very kind of different regulatory stance. And, you know, I'll back up. One of the things that's challenging
about when most people talk about tokenizing is the equities markets work pretty well from a retail
perspective. You know, you can go to Robinhood and trade for free. Why would you pay like gas
fees or have downtimes or all of those other things. But when you're bringing novel products
that themselves aren't available
or are more expensive or more painful on traditional Rails,
that's when you've got a kind of killer application
that requires a blockchain.
So I think the instant settlement
or near instant settlement is the main factor here because you're trading the actual asset.
Like you say, you're not trading a synthetic version of it or a promise or, you know, a number on a screen.
It's on the blockchain and it's backed by audited shares.
So, you know, you could never sell more shares than existed. Is that right?
That's exactly right. Look, there's another thing that's really compelling, and it's not obvious
until you start thinking about it. Decimalization, where it's really, truly decimalized. You know,
if you buy decimal shares in a brokerage account, the brokerage firm in the background is making
that happen in their account. So, you know, they're buying the rest of the share. If you're only buying half on chain, you can literally buy half. And so all of a sudden,
instead of having like, you know, a $55 point of entry, you can have a $5 point of entry.
I guess that would work really well for someone that's looking to a dollar cost average,
sort of enter interest market scale.
Because if you were to do that in the old school way,
it wouldn't be as effective as it is on the blockchain.
That's exactly right.
So you can automate the dividend reinvestment
as a dividend comes in from your portfolio of DCs.
You go, hey, buy these five DCs at this percentage.
And the Cloud Wallet or the Pributo app is gonna pop up
and say, here's my recommended offer file, please sign it. So you can take those dividends and use
those dividends to reinvest in that stock, for example. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, compounds.
Exactly. And also, you know, it's going to earn something north of the Treasury bill and be taxed lower than the Treasury bill for U.S. folks.
So it's a really pretty powerful tool.
It's kind of like, why would you stay in a stable coin if you could just have Microsoft, Apple, Broadcom cash flow?
So in order for this to work, there would need to be a lot of liquidity.
So how does that look?
So we're going to have both DTC market makers in the New York Stock Exchange, and they, for their own very personal reasons, want to be on the chain too. One of the things I think people
who've looked into this may overlook, because it's so much cheaper to manage this on chain,
we're actually able to cut the annual fees in half
for holding on chain.
And so that actually means that the dividend certificates
will be worth more on chain
than they are in the New York Stock Exchange.
And so you can imagine market makers looking at that
and going, I can make the spread of that kind of 14,
pardon me, seven basis points there
plus whatever the trade spread is.
And so you can imagine why DCs are going to move on chain pretty quickly.
Well, I guess if the numbers look like that, then yeah, I mean, it's surely going to be
an attraction. Have you got some kind of old school sort of institutions that are going to
be using Permuto Capital? Have you kind of got some partnerships of old school sort of institutions that are going to be using Permuto Capital? Have
you kind of got some some partnerships in that area? Oh, absolutely. You know, there's kind of
three different elements here. There's, you know, what I call retail in the professional financial
sense. Think RIAs, high net worth, ultra high net worth, and then independently institutions. And
these are the names you know that hold and
create the ETFs and the mutual funds. We've spoken to all the big boys. They're excited as
heck about this. And then there's a team of market makers because to really make this work well,
you want a group of market makers around it, making sure the arbitrage mechanism works so that
if DCs get too in demand, there's a market maker out there able to move the AC or take
converted shares and sell into that market that bring the price back into a band that is kind of So I'm trying to search for the right word here. I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here.
I can't see the right word here. I can't for the right word here uh i can't remember what i was going to say
arbitrage so there's an arbitrage opportunity here for for those institutions to be able to
make more from the same investment that they were going to make anyway
by doing this with this new technology.
Yeah, so it also like,
there's the arbitrage mechanism
is how the product stays and tracks the price
of say Microsoft underlying.
So there's an arbitrage between Microsoft
and these ACs and DCs,
where you go and redeem an AC and a DC
if the Microsoft share is worth more on DTC, you buy them on chain,
which of course pushes the price back toward the right answer and you sell them on DTC.
But there's also an arbitrage of, okay, if the chain is trading lower than your stock exchange,
you can do that or the reverse. If the chain is higher than the New York stock exchange,
you buy on the New York stock exchange and you sell on the GIA blockchain. And so it's a really powerful set of tools where you have folks
like, oh, well, the big boys are pretty obvious. Folks like Citadel, Virtu, GSX are very likely to
be market makers for this product because it's a real opportunity for them to make good market
spreads because they've got all these interesting markets that all will cooperate. Now, when you move up a level to like ETF builders, we expect a lot of new ETFs
to be built out of these products. It's going to take a little bit of time in the sense that we
probably have to get like 25-ish of them out first. And we hope to do that by the end of the year.
But then you can start doing things like enhanced SPced Spider, where it's all ACs.
And if you haven't thought it all through, when you take the dividend certificate out of Microsoft,
it'll be somewhere in the $40 to $60 per share is what the dividend certificate's worth.
And that will yield about 5.5%.
But it means now that you can buy a Microsoft share for 45 to $50 less than a regular Microsoft
share. So it'll go up. Like if it goes up 1% and the underlying, it'll go up like 1.12 in the AC.
And so all of a sudden you can have like a S and P 500 index built out of ACs that actually will
outperform the S and P 500. And then on the reverse side of it,
you can actually take companies that don't trade very well. And one of my favorite examples is
Pepsi. So five years ago, Pepsi was trading at a 23 PE and that's pretty darn high for Pepsi.
Anybody looking at that at that time would have been like, I don't believe that valuation. I think the market's overpriced in this. But Pepsi has a long history of a solid dividend. They
generally grow a little faster than GDP. People want their Taco Bell and their Pepsi. And so you
would look at that and go, you know what? I can buy the DC and reinvest. And if you just bought
Pepsi, you would have gotten about a 20% return dividend reinvesting and all of that during the five-year period. That same period, the S&P 500 went up about 69%. If you'd bought the DC only and you
dividend reinvested that, you'd be up 96%. So you would have outperformed the S&P 500 just with
a DC from Pepsi. But if you were really extreme about that thesis, you would have shorted the AC and you'd be up 119% over the same period.
So it just really unlocks a whole lot of new core ways to test.
you are going to own Microsoft and Apple and these others as we bring them out.
What you do in the US is you separate from the AC and the DC, and now you keep the AC
out in your taxable account because you're not going to sell it.
You're not going to pay tax on it anytime soon.
You're going to wait 10 years for it to continue to appreciate.
But you put your DC in your 401k or your IRA.
And so now not only is it even more tax efficient generally
because you're not paying annually
and you otherwise would have gotten a 20% tax treatment,
but you don't have to worry about that
because now you're reinvesting the entire dividend
in your 401k.
And so all of a sudden you're able to outperform
what just holding Microsoft would have looked like.
That's pretty incredible man um i i can i can see that what you're doing is you're creating efficiencies where within a market that's kind of inefficient um which which
could only mean that it's it's gonna it's gonna find a success um. I think liquidity is key, and there's obviously opportunity for that liquidity providing
and volume and stuff like that.
But go on, you were going to say something.
Well, I was just going to add that liquidity is key.
I think one of the best,
there's kind of two things that are connected,
but not the same.
Something like this has been done before.
In 1985,
a company launched primes and scores, and they were kind of taking the dividend and separating
it from appreciation. So it's like this never happened. Those went to their 5% caps very,
very quickly. It's just such a efficiency unlock. And I mean, one of those efficiencies you unlock
is nobody's buying Microsoft today for the dividend yield.
It's like 0.6%.
I think it went down because Microsoft went up a ton with their good earnings announcement.
So it's like 0.55.
But a lot of people would buy a 5.5% Microsoft yield.
And those people aren't buying Microsoft stock before.
And, you know, we all know how efficient markets should work.
But if you bring more total demand, then you're going to have more total price.
And giving the institutions and the retirement plans and all these things, these real tools to securitize, to build closed-end funds, you know, this is just a whole new opportunity and a whole new toolbox for them to be able to, like, do what you should have been doing, which is, you know, when you're young, it's all ACs in the favorite high growth, large companies.
By the time you're retiring, it's almost all DCs because you need that constant cashflow
in retirement.
So there's a massive potential market for this product.
So there's a massive potential market for this product.
When can we, when do you think we'll see this trading?
What's the timeline on that?
So very soon.
Summer has been what I've been consistently saying.
I still think we're going to hit that.
And it's just, you know, we're bringing a completely novel product to market
and we're having to get all the right people there, primarily around liquidity. We wanted to make sure we had multiple market makers
so that the institutions you've heard of are comfortable that they're not going to have a
market maker, you know, against them per se. They want somebody else to be able to inside spread.
And then once that's there, everybody's kind of comfortable that there's enough DCs. Because one
of the things about the DCs is they're probably not going to trade as actively as the ACs because often you're buying that DC to just hold and have the cash flow,
right? So we had to solve for that. And I think we've got that now pretty well handled. And then
it's just, you know, dotting the I's, crossing the T's and integrating the systems.
How do you think the mainstream media are going to see a novel product like this hit
in the market?
They're excited.
I mean, we've already seen Matt Levine pick it up and talk about it.
And he was mentioning the primes and the scores there.
His joke that is, you know, if you've got a single stock ETF, of course, you had to
have less than a single stock somewhere.
So that's one funny way to think about it.
You know, I can tell you that everybody is in the, you know,
tell us when we launch mode. And I can tell you that there's real demand to tell that story.
It is a kind of fundamental change in what you can do because, you know, you got all these, especially in the crypto world, all these cockamamie yield stories. And, you know,
the yield is probably you. Here, the yield is like Microsoft fanboys, Apple fanboys. I mean, I'm part of the yield on
the Apple dividend certificate because like I got all the services and all the devices.
So, you know, when you look at it that way, all of a sudden you're putting
very real yield, a type of yield that's almost never been available before. And that's like
before you start securitizing them too. And when you securitize these things, you know, you put
20 or 40 of these in a security vehicle, you know, you put 20 or 40 of these
in a security vehicle, you know, life insurance companies would buy the heck out of the like 5%
AAA tier. And you're going to end up returning because most of these dividend payers continue
to increase their dividends at worst, they hold them steady. So, you know, when we look at our
kind of screen for that first 85 85 and we look back 10 or 15
years, there's literally only one company that cut its dividend to zero. And that was Intel. And
everybody knew that was going to happen. So, you know, when you scrutize these, and even if you
lose a company like an Intel out of them, the returns are just massive all the way down the
stack. And so it's just, it's a really powerful way to take like the $20 billion Microsoft is paying out and finally make people value that.
Today, it's not.
Like people are buying Microsoft for Microsoft stock appreciation.
They're not buying it for that cash flow.
sorry speaking i was in my head didn't want to unmute myself and be rude
yeah no i was just going to say like um i mean it's amazing to see the level of progression um
and achievements that have come from the chia blockchain recently and one of which is that
chia successfully completed its soc2 examination um would you be able to kind of like unpack what
that means and um and how that's gonna benefit chia in the future yeah no so a sock2 um is
a report on the information security structure and development process effectively that gets you
to certainty that what you're shipping is what you meant to ship, that it's secure, that it's
the correct history, all these sorts of things. And it's kind of the gold standard. There's a
ISO version of it as well. It's a little more prescriptive, but those two are what institutions and governments and businesses around the world want to see.
It allows them to get a real read on your control infrastructure.
And, you know, if you read the audits, these are long descriptions with actual testing of all of the statements about, you know, how do we handle passwords?
How do you handle authentication? How do you remove a user?
How do we review pull requests?
What's the method? And can we prove that that's the method we took? Or if we didn't, that we
recorded the exception and explained it well. So it is really an in-depth ability and a third-party
audit by an ICPA. So, you know, lean honorable by real auditors to get a lot of comfort that,
you know, all of our systems,
in our case, we did do all of our systems in the sense that because we also want to rely on this
for some of our later SOX controls as a public company so that Deloitte can look at that and
not have to themselves, you know, go test whether our financial systems have the correct security
around them, whether they have the correct audit log, those kinds of things. So it really is, it's a
hell of a lot of work to get the first one. Once you get that first one done, it becomes a lot less
work because you start talking about what you kind of built incrementally year over year.
But we're really excited to get that first one done. And it really gives third parties a lot of
confidence, especially when you're an open source company, because they can both themselves read it
and then kind of go confirm that in an open repository.
So it's a really powerful tool.
It checks an important box when you're one of the world's largest financial asset managers
and you're thinking about hiring us to help you self-custody
all of your DCs on the Chia blockchain.
So you also submitted that paperwork to the SEC to be able to launch this product.
Did they give you any kind of feedback when you initially submitted your sort of first draft?
Yeah, so the feedback from the SEC has been great.
They had some questions because we're doing a bit of a novel structure, but it is actually a completely legal structure.
So there were some,
what I call 40 act questions. And what I mean by that is in the U S there's kind of two big
regulatory buckets around securities. There's being an issuer, being Tesla, being Chia network
Inc, being permita. And you deal with what's called corporate finance at the sec. And from
corporate finances perspective, the Permuda offering looks
completely boring and vanilla and like every other exchange traded product they've ever seen before.
But over on the other side, a lot of those exchange traded products are what are called
40 act companies. And 40 act companies have a lot more restrictions on them. They have different
board requirements. They can't issue, for example, two classes of stock. So they had a lot of questions of
why isn't this a 40 act company, right?
And we got through that pretty quickly
the first couple of turns.
And so now it was really, you know,
a lot of the commentary we've gotten
because they have this too is,
hey, could you take a lot more of the explanatory information
from the China network Inc S1, which is still on file
and available on the crypto task force website because I got Freedom of Information Act opened and add that detail
to the Permuto's perspective. So a lot of what would be in the Chia S1 is actually ending up
in the Permuto perspective. You know, I'd add it's hard for people to get around the get around the get the brains around
the idea that there really is peer-to-peer trading without an exchange or a third party or anything
else you know chia offer files vault and cloud wallet are just game changing in this entire
industry yeah i couldn't agree more with that i think that that is really important and it's awesome to see
that there's you know a blockchain out there um really fighting for that and trying to support
that and you know i'm sure that the community are really happy about that as well and uh you know
it's it cheers to me and i'm far from an expert i'm still learning and i love the fact that this
space feels like that there's just never too much to learn and things'm far from an expert i'm still learning and i love the fact that this space feels
like that there's just never too much to learn and things are always changing and as as things
advance it opens up many avenues and you know kind of seeing how people are utilizing the tech
that's being built um it's kind of mind-blowing as well really but cheer does look and feel much
different to anything i've ever seen um and the way that people are utilizing it seems revolutionary as well.
Like the recent utilization
of the NFT fusion with MonkeyZoo.
I think that that's incredible.
And it's great to see the tech being received,
but also built on in a way
that helps push those bounds further.
Well, look, the thing that's got to be there is that there are a bunch of promises that were
already there from both Bitcoin and Ethereum, but we haven't gotten to the user experience
that keeps the value of what they're doing. I mean, like a lot of people have moved over to
centralized exchanges and maybe they're using pass keys with a centralized exchange,
but a lot of people get fished out of a centralized exchange is just disgusting.
We wanted it so that real people could put tens of millions of dollars in a Chia vault
and have confidence that they're safe from everything, including up and up to the $10
wrench attack. You know, we want it to be that
it's something like, ah, I lost my phone. There's an easy process for me to recover. It's not,
you know, I've got this weird device and I got to type in 60, 24 words. This all needs to go away.
If normal people are going to get the benefits of self-custody, the benefits of also, well,
you know, in other blockchains, there's a
huge tension between how secured your funds are and how easy it is to interact in DeFi.
And in Chia, we've made that tension very, very low. Your assets are immediately available.
You might have to hit a couple buttons, but it's literally confirm, confirm after you look at it
and make sure that the request you're getting is what you wanted. And then you're trading. And so you get these multi-sigs, you get clawbacks to protect you.
You know, we'll be adding things like, hey, this vault can't spend more than X for 24 hours without
a second signature. You know, it's those kinds of things that let you will build a human manageable,
but really secure solution to be able to be like, Hey, I just got a dividend
payment. I'm going to get push notification. It's time to dividend reinvest. And all I've got to do
is review it, agree to it, sign it, submit the offer. The cloud wallet will watch if it takes
too long and may say, Hey, do you want to change your offer to move to the market? You know, it's
that kind of tool set that becomes really easy
to manage a dividend reinvestment strategy from your mobile device
in a way that you cannot be stolen from and you can't lose it.
So it creates a real maker and taker kind of market, right?
That's right.
You know, and it's neat because the market's going to be not just that,
but so one of the negatives of AMMs is that you can kind of see
where the breakpoints of the market are. And so people, even centralized exchanges are going out there and
pushing things around on an AMM, knowing that they're going to get to a liquidity point.
When you mix an AMM with an actual open outcry bid ask market, that's global. And by the way,
it's the splash network. It's literally a peer to peer open outcry network. You don't know,
you know, is Citadel sitting there behind the bid?
And when you push on that, Citadel is going to come and hit it hard?
That's a thing you can't do in an AMM, but you absolutely can do in a bid-ask style order book looking open outcry market.
So putting those two together becomes really interesting because you get the liquidity that you can pull and push out of the AMM,
but by market makers who are also making that open outcry market or yourself, you know, when
you're looking at that AMM as well. And in fact, like one of the things I expect is as I think
Yak is heading toward, Yak is the guy who does a Tibet swap, toward a V3 style, Uniswap style AMM,
you know, you could see where DC is being pretty stable and, you know, in price,
there could be a significant bonding there and hyper liquidity to be able to move between DCs.
So, you know, it's those kinds of things become very interesting when you have a multifaceted
market that isn't relying on just one strategy.
Because obviously there are issues with modern AM um where you've got things like sandwich
attacks um where people can front run your transactions and um extract the value between
your trades um so it's something like that is kind of avoiding those kind of uh negative
externalities it is and it's important to note that the MEV you're talking about,
maximal extractable value,
used to be called minor extractable value.
It isn't necessarily the AMM that causes that.
It's design decisions in Ethereum.
So in Ethereum, the order of transactions matters.
In Chia, we went with fully parallel transactions
filling a block.
And so transactions can make expectations about each other.
And it's kind of how offers work where you're saying,
hey, I'm willing to accept this range or this specific set,
but I'm open to how you fulfill that.
So MEV on the Chia blockchain is extremely limited.
It really is mostly that a farmer could take a good deal.
That's kind of the only thing that happens there.
But if you're the maker, you're getting what you asked for.
It's just a taker might lose out on what he considers
or she considers a good deal.
But to be clear, if you can sandwich attack a transaction
and it's a known securities transaction
and all these permuto transactions
will be known securities transactions, that's a felony in the United States. And it's been a
felony since 1934. And it's not something that the regulators of DOJ take lightly at all. So,
you know, from that perspective, they want orderly fair markets where if you think you're buying
Microsoft DC for the price you want it at, you should get it at that price and it shouldn't be,
you know, bumped up and stolen from your pocket.
It's funny how that would be illegal in traditional markets yet in the crypto market,
it's just accepted as like a normal thing.
I think there are some upgrades coming to Solana soon
that will allow,
that's going to try and help or fix the sandwiching problem.
I don't fully understand how it works.
I need to revisit that, do a bit more research on it.
But Solana has got some kind of upgrade coming soon
that will mitigate that factor,
which is interesting to me.
Yeah, it's just, you know, I don't know if the NC there is actually very high.
You know, there's a lot of their validators who they're paying to validate.
And so it's kind of like, well, okay, is it just one big validator?
But to your point about the difference between securities and commodities,
on the commodities market, this is totally the usual legal and fine.
And when you start thinking about commodities like farmers,
you know, insider trading, I mean,
the whole point of a commodity in many ways
is because the farmer's worried about his crop.
So it doesn't have the same sort of regulatory footprint
or design that a securities transaction does.
But in the securities case, you know,
you've got sophisticated professionals
making a market around you.
If they could MEV, they would.
And that's why it's illegal.
I mean, when you're looking at such big numbers as well, you know, the potential extracted value
there is huge. Yeah. I mean, you can start talking about lowering people's total returns,
about lowering people's total returns right yeah exactly exactly
right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
the last thing we need is a front running and back running people's iras
so i know you're a bit of a privacy maxi um as am i um what do you think about the stuff
that's happening in the uk at the moment with this new online safety act where they're restricting people's ability to speak, essentially?
I kind of feel like it might be damaging towards free expression of freedom of speech.
It absolutely is. It's intolerable in the United States and it's leaking back to the States. And so Preston Byrne, who's a Chia Farmer community member and just kind of an all-around interesting human being,
is on a bit of a jihad to push back and make it clear to the UK that they cannot tell US companies
what the US companies can't say. It's troubling. It's only under severe pressure that the UK backed
down on advanced data protection for Apple. Apple was going to literally disable
advanced data protection in the UK. I believe that that has been rescinded before Apple had
to actually take that step. And I'll give you a concrete example why that's such a problem.
Right now, advanced data protection, if you've got like two YubiKeys in control of your iCloud
account, any passkey you generate in iCloud, Apple can't
get into it. You can't lose it as long as you have but one of your keys and one of your devices.
And it's like the most secure solution to not being able to be phished, to not being able to
lose your assets in any way. And that's, you know, your Coinbase account too, and your Gia Cloud
wallet. You know, it's just a really powerful tool
because you now know that not even Apple
can be coerced to let someone into your accounts.
Yeah, and I saw that as quite problematic as well
because they've got these things in place
because it's good for security.
And like you say,
even Apple doesn't have access to that stuff.
Um, so how is Apple expected to be able to give them access to something that
they don't have access to themselves?
And in order to do so, they'd have, there'd be significantly lower in
people's security in order to fulfill that requirement.
That's right.
Look, the, the key thing about back doors, and that's what we're talking
about there is you have to assume your enemy has them too.
And this keeps happening.
It turned out both, I think, the North Koreans and the Chinese were in the mobile network basically grabbing all SMS texts,
using a backdoor design to make it easy for the FBI to get access to those.
So, yeah, I mean, it concerns me, this new online safety act, because what they're doing
is they're masking it behind the, yeah, what about the children?
Yeah, okay, there is an element of that that is potentially protecting children from things
that they shouldn't see.
But at what costs?
You know, it's costing people's freedoms and their ability to for freedom freedom
of expression i mean we've seen if we've seen many many cases in the uk of people you know
stressing their opinions and and being persecuted for the fact um you know i understand if people
are in satan hatred um and violence i understand that there's there's a need for some kind of
intervention there but when people are stressing an opinion, it just, I don't know, man,
it just seems like the UK in particular
is setting a really bad precedent
for what could come from
this kind of authoritarian kind of idea, you know?
Yeah, it's bad.
I mean, look, the good news is
that most of online speech
comes out of the United States
as hosted under the First Amendment.
And in the First Amendment, there isn't even hate speech.
Like you've got to actually credibly threaten someone.
And by the way, credible does a lot of work in that statement to have anything you say be actually actionable.
And that's the way it should be.
You know, like there's a fighting words exception.
So like, if you know, you're in a bar and you're like, I'm going to beat your ass, that
So like if you're in a bar and you're like, I'm going to beat your ass, that can be stopped.
can be stopped.
But if you're like, I want to kill you, Mr. Politician, and you got nothing credible about
it, you can say that all the day.
And I think that's critical.
I think it's going to be hard because the internet's pretty freaking porous.
And unless you want to go as far as China has the great firewall level, it's pretty
hard to get cut off.
Now, I will also say, I think there's starting to be a realization from a lot of the American
social media and other companies that you might just start saying, nah, people
UK can't log on to my social network. Now that's not a win for humanity, but hopefully it puts the
right kind of political pressure on people who, I mean, look, this isn't about protecting children.
It is about a dominant political party
being able to choose what people can think about like that's what it's about yeah exactly and it
is behind this mask of you know protecting the children but i i've seen it progress over the
last couple of years and i've made many tick tocks and things about it kind of expressing my concerns
and yeah i kind of feel like at the moment that that's kind of like a pinnacle of where we're where we're at um and yeah i think i think it's
really sucky um you know i'm a big believer in in people's right for freedom of speech um you know
even if i vehemently disagree with what you have to say, I still believe in your right to be
able to say it.
I want to know who the morons are by hearing it.
Exactly.
I want to know people to avoid.
There's this other thing hiding in this too, which I just want to make sure it's very clear.
This is actually not political because the problem is that if you're the dominant party
and you're using this tool today and now you're not the dominant party, it's going to be used
against you.
So it's not about what your view is even though people think it is
it's about giving the government in current charge power to shut you up
yeah and that's a problem you know it's it's it's you know they're going down a law route
for these things um but i'm interested to see what happens with the dissenters you know the people that do decide and
say hey no we're not going to do your thing because it goes against our values should we say
I'm looking forward to see how that how that looks legally I wonder how it's going to be enforced
we'll see we'll see I think it's going to be an interesting ride but i want to get out
of this country um i i i don't like the direction it's gone for the last decade and i don't know
where we're going still um you know there's problems in america with with you know the dollar
um being a real problem where you know debt and uh servicing that debt is now becoming really untenable so it's quite concerning
um you know what happens after the u.s dollar what happens next in your opinion well i mean look the
good news is we have some lifeboats out here um you know when you think about things like you know
how do i put this in some weird ways, Microsoft's cash flow is safer than the dollar
because people are still going to need the service.
And if the dollar massively devalues, you just see that cash flow number move through the roof.
These companies actually can generally avoid inflation by pricing through.
There's also Bitcoin.
And at some point, XCH starts to take on that same sort of,
if you're looking at it in comparison to the US dollar
and the US dollar is not doing well,
well, you're doing better.
I mean, there's a few challenges to the dollar
with things like the BRICS agreement.
I'm not quite sure where that is at the moment.
It's kind of gone quiet.
I don't know if it's being utilized or i'm not sure what's what's really uh happening with that but there's definitely a
challenge to the to the dollar um you know it's the same with any any currency around the world
it's kind of what b what bitcoin was created for in the first place was you know to to create
essentially an economic model of inflation that is predictable, essentially, where the inflation
on Bitcoin is a downward curve, where the inflation on fear is an upward curve. So you tell me which
one's better. Yeah. Well, and also there's a thing I think some people miss, which is that
Bitcoin or Chia don't have to become the dominant currency to be extremely powerful force to keep
the dominant currency from being extremely stupid. You know, that, that you up the risk that there's a decent
alternative forces, you know, better behavior at the end of the day. You know, the U S is going to
have to make some very hard decisions when it comes to peak baby boomer payouts. And, you know,
unfortunately the right answer is going to be that the pain is going to
be handed out or, well, we get to choose which pain we want. Do we cut the services or do we
devalue the dollar? And that's really our only choices. And neither of those are great, but I
actually think we're going to choose to not devalue the dollar. Well, I mean mean history says that that's the usual choices to devalue the dollar realm
that we're spending yeah you know i will say this the united states in a lot of cases has taken the
we won't do it until we absolutely have to do it but when we absolutely have to do it we often
make the right call a bit like uh lowering interest rates maybe if you ask yep i was going to say as well um there
has been some um you know recent development in in regulations uh with the u.s government um
would you say this is kind of in favor of blockchain technology um or are you having to
kind of work your way through it um You know, what's your take on it
in regards of how Chira operates moving forward?
So, you know, I say it this way.
Obviously, the environment is just much friendlier, period.
We went from being, frankly,
having the US government at war with anything blockchain
and us being kind of the only exception.
And I think the only reason we got that exception
was because the CAD trust is something
that the folks who otherwise were hating on blockchains really want to see succeed. But now we've got a far more business friendly
environment and, you know, we've just seen the passage of the Genius Act. So now it's very clear
that things like USDC are legal in the United States and clearly regulated. There is a push by
the SEC to start trying to figure out how to make some, especially securities related on-chain transactions simpler or fit in a better regulatory environment.
But I will say there's core securities laws.
I think you saw Hester Paris say this pretty recently on Twitter that aren't changing.
You know, you still like, if you're dealing with securities, you're going to need an SEC
license of some sort, be it an ATS license, a broker dealer license, or, you know, registration
statement. I do think they may make it even easier. Like it may make the Bermuda registration
statement shorter in the future because there's some things we had to have to address that are
really kind of focused on operating companies, not necessarily on like an exchange traded product or,
you know, like the way that transfer agents are defined can kind of be
weird. We're off in the kind of edge casey stuff. So you just saw the chairman of the SEC yesterday
go out and say that they're creating Project Crypto, I believe it was, and it's really go
address this to see where they can give exemptive relief, where they can put new regulations in
place or change existing adopted regulations. One of those is what's called Reg NMS,
which is about pricing national market securities.
We built Permuto so that we didn't have those problems.
So we don't really need these changes,
but they're appreciated.
And I think it's gonna be especially appreciated
as Trent Martinson, my co-CEO of Permuto,
he is a financial evil genius.
And I'm really excited about some of
the other products that he wants to build in the future. And a lot of those will end up being
blockchain only because of the ability for the blockchain to service all the infrastructure so
cheaply and not be sort of disfavored for being blockchain only regulatorily. So that's, I think,
where I'm most interested in those changes. Yeah, that's really interesting. And thank you
for answering that as well. Because, yeah, it does seem like, you know, Chia is really helping
businesses understand blockchain and how it can be utilized. But it does also seem from my
perspective, that you're supporting self-sovereignty as well, making it where, you know, not only can people have access to their own things and manage those things, but also making it a much easier, more simplified experience as well.
Because I think the big issue of global adoption at the moment, especially for the everyday person, is the lack of understanding on how to utilize the tech and how to remain safe in that process.
Yeah, we wanted it to feel very webbed too. I mean, ultimately, you shouldn't really know
there's a blockchain there. But there's another piece to what you just said. When you look at
these other RWA or tokenized stocks offerings, a lot of them are trying to get around these
regulations by doing like a walled garden.
And the idea is like, you've got a big signup process on chain, you've got to be vetted and
all of this. And all of those speed bumps beyond just getting your wallet going, each one of those
cuts into liquidity. And what you really want here is highly liquid, easily tradable, deep markets for all this stuff. And so the more you
put on those extra steps, you know, do you have to KYC, blah, blah, blah. You know, if you want
to buy it from, you know, Microsoft DC, as long as you have XCH or USDCB right this second,
you'll be able to just buy it. Now you'll want to register later if you've got a DC because we need
your tax information, but you just have to do that before the end of the tax year. But you can continue to trade it
the entire time. There was no permission. There was no signup process. It's literally
trading directly on a blockchain for whatever assets you want to offer for it.
I look forward to the first NFT that buys a Microsoft DC.
I look forward to the first NFT that buys a Microsoft DC.
So is there kind of no KYC process or traditional KYC process for these transactions on Pimiti?
There are none.
As I said, if you own the DC and you want to get 100% of the dividend payment,
you'll need to at least file a W-8 or W-9, which is like very light KYC. It's just you telling us what your
taxing authority is or what your social security number is or your EIN in the United States.
And the W-8 is one of those for the US and one is for the rest of the world. I can't remember
which one's which, but it's one of those two. But after that, that's only again to make sure
that you get the full dividend and we don't just withhold the 30%, which is the statutory maximum
right now, and send that to the IRS on your behalf.
Which again, if you skip that step
and you wanna go back and get it,
you can actually, we should be able to,
we're still working with the IRS about how to do it.
Go to them and figure out that tax burden
and they'll pay you back whatever you overpaid if you did.
So we're coming quite quickly to the end of the first hour um thanks for joining us again
gene uh we always enjoy listening to you um you know we very much appreciated your friend bram
come and speak to us i think you should have a chat with him see if he would like to come and
join us again um i've definitely got a better under a better understanding of uh of what you're
trying to achieve with uh this new products and where its product market fit is um i'm excited
i'm excited for for this product uh what it what it means for cheer um and i'm also excited to
continue to see what the community come up with building on on this network um i think one i think the lisp is
a restricting factor because you've kind of where chia has taken the direction of um
taking bitcoin and then kind of improving and sort of stacking upon that um rather than uh
what a lot of our blockchains do they've kind of gone with this whole Solidity thing and that sort of thing.
But I'm excited to see what the community come up with
in novel ways to utilize this tech
and to see where that goes.
I do think, you know, look,
there's a trade-off that's being made.
A lot of the other blockchains chose developer ease
over security. And we looked at that and said that if this is going to be the most antagonistic
development environment on the planet, we got to go the exact opposite direction. It's got to be
something that's verifiable, something that is very secure, something that's sandboxed and can't
get out of the full node under your computer and start doing bad stuff. And it really shows in what we're able to do with it.
And I think developers often overestimate how much Chialisp they need to know.
Most folks coming into the Chialisp ecosystem really just need to understand the coin model
or the UTXO model because that's new and different.
And you have to think about it a little differently.
The Chialisp, a lot of that's, you know, kind of been slung by the most advanced developers in our community.
But, you know, you can still pop up really interesting things like Go For Me, which Josh Painter has just launched the last 48 hours.
And it's a really neat little viral application that's using stuff that's kind of off the shelf, but remixed in a really fascinating way.
So, you know, I think that's where it becomes interesting.
And, you know, when we start talking about, I mean, Microsoft is a $4 trillion company. We're going to probably
put 5% of that value, at least half of that on chain, if not all of it sooner or later.
That's, those are the numbers we're talking about. And so we need to know that the CAT2
standard works the way it does and it can't be broken. Are there any upgrades or changes that
standard works the way it does, and it can't be broken.
are forecast for Chia in the future? There is one. We have had some third parties who figured
out how to compress our plots in a way that was larger than we had expected or wanted.
And we took one of those third parties and Aqua hired him.
And we're going to launch a new plot format that brings it back to making it so that a GPU is useful,
but it's not really a solid component of how much space you have.
So we're excited about getting back to kind of the one-to-one space versus actual space.
And that's something to be rolling out in into year and Q1, Q2.
If you've got questions or interested about that,
our Discord has a plotting and farming,
farming and plotting channel.
And I think we also have a plot discussion,
plot format discussion, yeah,
that have a lot of those details in it.
So that's the really big change.
Everything else is very gently around the edges.
You know, as we've learned more
about Chialisp development ourselves,
there are some very minor changes we can make here
and there just to make developers lives a little simpler,
both at the kind of developer tools level,
and then also just some things in the consensus,
but in Chialisp, not the consensus layer itself,
that would be just more elegant.
So, you know, we're gonna take that hard fork opportunity
to slip probably a couple of those in, but they're not material, they're just more elegant. So, you know, we're going to take that hard fork opportunity to slip probably a couple of those in,
but they're not material.
They're just convenience factors.
They're more conveniences than sort of functional changes.
That's right.
I mean, that's the nice thing about GioList
being a Turing-complete programming environment.
What does Turing-complete mean exactly? it means it's a generalized computer
uh yeah it's the turing test for you know can a computer basically do all all known math is about
the best way to think about it i see yeah it's amazing the way that you've um you know built a
blockchain as well um in a way that kind of supports the um the
development and the developers um in a way that helps you know with the safety element to it like
you said in regards of the uh the the the language chosen for for people to be able to develop um but
also providing the tools to help the community be able to to build on the blockchain um and you know
i've got to do a massive shout out to the cheer community which i have to do this every time because they are so brilliant they are so dedicated they seem
to really understand the the value that's been built what's possible you know what you and the
cheer team are accomplishing um and really being a voice for the people in places most can't reach
um which is is always awesome to see in here um but to see how people are utilizing the tech is
absolutely mind-blowing to me and as soon as I feel like I'm even close to understanding it there
are more revolutionary progressions in in the community and it's awesome but you know one of
the first things I noticed and I've said this before but I'll say it again is the way that
the community are so driven to help people learn and understand and find
information rather than just trying to push people to buy a token. I mean, they're probably
trying to keep the token down so that they can keep accumulating at lower cost. I'm just kidding.
But it is awesome how people are helping each other learn and understand. And I think that's
brilliant to see a community focused on, on growth and building
above all else. Yeah. Look, we want to make self-custody really darn easy. And then we want
to make those tools available to all the developers that you don't have to go like rewrite the hard
parts. It's only, you know, what are you doing? That's fun. What are you adding value? What's
your art? You know, those, those are the questions I want people to be thinking about and not,
you know, wait, how do I onboard people like that that shouldn't be a problem
and again you know i want people to be like go to your mom and like send her an ft and she can
actually use it and keep it and won't lose it it's a those are hard things to do to do well
yeah and there are people in the community that have actually done that as well, which is awesome.
Yeah.
And, you know, look, what you see in Cloud Wallet and Vault.G.net today is just the absolute bare beginning.
It's like the minimum necessary.
There's so much stuff we're going to be adding and so much functionality that's going to be there. you as a user and then developers as a kind of anchor point upon which to let your end users have this powerful vault that has real custody controls and even third-party custody recovery.
You know, it's just a different paradigm that's so much more secure and so much easier to use.
Yeah, definitely. Well said. And, you know, when with the way the world is at the moment it's you know there's a lot of
like things happening around the world there's a lot of struggle with you know having trust in
in the powers that be and you know i feel that people should be able to kind of enjoy
what this space can provide and when it comes to like value and how we can you know grow our own
value and transact with it and and build new business and how people can connect around the world um and and enjoying the technology
for how it could really you know impact the world in a positive way and not worry so much about
what's happening in the world because i suppose when you're in blockchain you have to you know
you've got to have your ear on the ground you've got to be knowing what's happening all around the
world it's it is quite tough to kind of like be tapped in, but not too much to get too pulled in.
So it's quite refreshing to see communities enjoying the tech that's being built and, you know, starting to grow faith in it so that they can kind of, you know, build their own futures on that blockchain and build the companies that are tapped into that and, you know, aim for that
goal of sending your mom an NFT and it not being an unusual, weird process that she's never going
to understand the second time. That's right. And look, you know, we're very soon going to give
people this new world where, you know, Bitcoin was launched thinking about bank failure.
Brokerage firms and investment houses failed too, you know, 2008. And I love a world where you can
be in any country in the world and you can self custody a custom built portfolio of DCs and maybe
ACs. You've built your own ETF, your own mutual fund on chain at the price level that you can
afford. You're not forced to pay 500 bucks for a share of Microsoft. You could pay five bucks for
an AC of Microsoftrosoft that world where
you and only you have custody but you've got backups that you have control of it's just a
really interesting world where you don't have to trust any institution but the ones you're making
an investment in you touched on something earlier about removing some of the gpu advantage in the mining
does that mean it would open the door to mine on things like a mobile device and things like this
it will actually we're able to actually cut the size of our minimum plot file and so it's going
to be much more possible uh to do mobile farming. Mobile farming will probably require a little trust
to be efficient so it doesn't get your battery.
But other than that, you're going to be able to take
like that extra 50% of your iPhone you're not using right now,
fill it up with plots, and will you definitely win?
It's a high long shot.
If you're in a pool, you'll get a little bit of money.
Okay, so there would be pools available.
I think that's probably the best way to do it.
I don't know what the odds on the lottery would be there,
but I would imagine it's probably better to be part of a pool
so that you can realize your efforts.
One of the things we wanted to do sooner or later
once we get that out there is uh
you know imagine pooling for your favorite charity so you know you're not making a ton but if the
charity attracts a couple hundred thousand you know mobile farmers they might actually make money on
that that's quite interesting yeah like it's like a social farming kind of metric exactly
that's awesome and that's that's exactly what i'm talking about in regards of you know utilizing his tech to to make a difference and and to you know create impact where normally you couldn't um
so yeah that that's awesome and you know it's exciting to think that you know you could utilize
your mobile phone i mean 50 of what's available on my phone, I'd be getting a phone just for that purpose.
It'd be using 100%.
It's also fun. It's fun because, like, you know, you can overbuy your storage and then kind of offset that cost a little bit, surely.
And if you do need it, you just delete some plots to, like, add that new app you want.
add that new app you want yeah that's awesome that is really exciting and uh you know it sounds like
Yeah, that's awesome. That is really exciting.
there's a lot of you know as there always is great progression uh with the cheer blockchain and
you know as bacon was saying earlier we really do appreciate you allocating the time to come and
speak with us and you know help us further understand uh the tech that's been built and
you know and to speak to us so that people listening can also learn about you know who
cheer are whatI stand for,
what CHI have built, what they're aiming to build,
and just have access to that information
so that they can use this educational material
to dive deeper into the endless rabbit hole
of the CHI and Epp blockchain.
But no, as always, it has been an absolute honor gene and we you know we
look forward to our next conversation um it would be awesome if uh you and bram could come back and
we can dive deeper and look into you know different things that are being built or um you know dive
deeper on the things that we've talked about but um we will be moving over to our next guest in
just a moment so i don't know if there's anything you'd like to add as a closing remark before we do move over to the next guest.
No, beyond like saying, first of all, thank you guys and thanks to the entire Chia community.
It's a pretty amazing group of people and we're looking forward to it growing like a weed.
absolutely more like a seed than the weed well uh weeds do grow like wildfire to be fair and i've
Absolutely.
More like a seed than the weed.
seen a lot of seeds floating about so uh you know it's definitely awesome to see but uh no thank
you gene and yeah massive um thank you for the uh the cheer community that have supported all
these spaces that we've put on you know it really does mean the world to us we love having these
conversations we want to learn to we want to connect with the incredible people in the industry and we want other people to have
the opportunity to learn about all the tech that is available just to help them further understand
and help support the educational journey in this space as well so you know we appreciate everyone
that listens in and pushes these spaces out and helps these conversations get heard so that
more people can have their mind opened to what the Cheenet blockchain is building and how the blockchain
industry can revolutionize for the people which is you know extremely important so yeah we appreciate
that Gene thank you very much and thank you the pleasure is all ours.
Yeah, I just want to say thanks again, Gene.
It's always a pleasure hosting you over here.
Next time I speak to you face-to-face,
I will try not to interrupt your dinner.
But yeah, it's nice to see you.
And yeah, nice to see you, mate.
Yeah, it was great meeting you in person as well.
And thanks again, guys.
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that gene uh saying like asking his team like who was that person just interrupted my dinner
just there yeah um just just black blacklist him from the uh future events will you please
no i'm just kidding it was amazing to say to see you in person and to connect with the uh
some of the cheer team and the cheer community absolutely amazing bunch of people it was uh it
was a absolute pleasure but uh but yeah no that being said we will be moving over to our
second guest for tonight which is someone we've never featured before one of the things that we
really do enjoy about this space is is connecting with new people um learning what is being built
out there in the world and uh helping people connect with each other as well so um rex i
believe your name was hopefully hopefully I can't butcher
a three letter word, but it wouldn't be the first time. So thank you for being patient enough to be
the second guest. I hope you enjoyed what you listened into. I don't know if you've heard
about ChiaNet before, but if you haven't, then definitely a great place to start from the
amazing Gene Hoffman there, but happy Friday. And how are you doing this evening?
Hey, yeah, I'm doing great.
That was really fascinating.
I am familiar with Chia Network,
although I've never really done a deep dive into it.
So now I feel like I got a little bit of a crash course.
And yeah, definitely very interesting things
that they're doing over there.
That's awesome.
Yeah, definitely glad you could learn a little extra there.
So are you going to say something there, buddy?
Oh, no, just clearing my throat.
Apologies. Well, yeah, well, usually what we ask guests to do when they first join us
is just, if you wouldn't mind giving a brief introduction of who you are, what you're building,
and basically a little bit about your journey in this space so far just so
we could further understand you and what it is you're trying to accomplish that would be awesome
yeah happy to so um let's see uh there's really two sides of me that have combined to make the
driven labo project and everything that we're building. I guess we'll start with the automotive
side. I grew up in a very automotive and motorsports heavy family. My family actually
has worked for Mercedes-Benz since the late 1890s, so four generations. And so cars are effectively in my DNA.
And yeah, ever since I was able to start, you know, like turning a wrench, I was working on cars with my dad, started racing cars at 15 years old, and always had a deep passion
for motorsport.
But on my professional side, I have been in brand and product development for over 20 years now, mostly developing.
I've worked on developing some global brands, a variety of very large website and app projects.
And in the last few years, I've honed much more in on a passion for UI and UX.
And so around 2019, I went full-time in Web3 and was the VP of design and UI for a startup decentralized social network.
And that evolved into becoming the VP of Web3. UI for a startup decentralized social network.
And that evolved into becoming the VP of Web3 and really just been focused on building my career here ever since.
Actually, I bought my first Bitcoin back in 2013.
I'm a bit of an econ nerd as well myself.
So I was into hard money, money gold all of that and then
bitcoin came around i was like oh this is interesting i'll you know kind of dabble with
this a little bit and uh you know just kind of kept my interest up until the uh proper web 3
space was born and um so i would say kind of like my aha moment for web 3 was actually when uh it's
gonna sound funny to say this but when crypto kitties came out i think it was 2017 um and uh i
truly understood what an nft was for the first time um i didn't just look at like the surface level like oh you can make
you know jpegs on chain or you know turn into this little like uh simple in-game character right
i immediately went to okay how can this be applied to the real world and um one of my interests
because i like mechanics is i love um nice mechanical watches. One of my hobbies is fixing watches.
So I said, it'd be really fascinating to apply NFTs to things like a Rolex
or these high-end watches that get replicas made.
And they're so good these days that you actually have to be an expert
to really tell them apart.
And if you were to have an NFT associated with a Rolex that would allow you to prove
its provenance on chain, that would be a game changer.
So that was my first personal project I did in Web3 space.
And that was about late 2017, early 2018.
And I think it was a little ahead of my time.
Nobody really understood what I was trying to accomplish.
Everybody was so interested in their JPEGs, which is fine.
So I moved on to other projects,
but that idea always stuck in the back of my mind
is blockchain has a lot of opportunity
to interface with the real world in ways that
it'll add a ton of value and unlock liquidity and solve real world problems so after i left
my position as vp of web3 at that social network i decided well i knew i wasn't going anywhere i
knew i was going to stay in Web3.
It was just a matter of what I was going to do.
And I decided to combine my two passions of vehicles and blockchain.
And the idea sort of came around the sort of what I was dealing with at the time was I had recently purchased one of my favorite cars
in the world. I'm a big Japanese sports car fan. So I had purchased a 97 Nissan 240SX in Japan.
It's known as a Sylvia. And you think, okay, it's a 97 Nissan, you know, the thing is going to be,
you know, just a few thousand bucks. But to get a really good one, you're, you know the thing is going to be you know just a few thousand bucks but to get a really good one
you're you know in great shape you're looking at easily 30 40 thousand dollars and I started
researching the price appreciation of particularly JDM vehicles but it also applies a lot to collector
cars vehicles with like maybe a racing or celebrity lineage, and of course, you know,
exotics and hypercars. But I started looking at what the price appreciation is on collector cars,
and it kind of struck me that this could be seen as an asset class in its own right. And to, you
know, the super wealthy, they actually do treat things like Ferraris
and Lamborghinis and Fiatis as an investment because they almost always go up in price.
And so I kind of devised a way to put this together as an offering where effectively the solution that we're providing to the market is
a making an illiquid market liquid but b going to a community of passionate automotive enthusiasts
who they would love nothing more than to own a $500,000 Nissan GTR inspector and I'm just
throwing out weird words here, but that's like,
that's one of the most rare versions of the Nissan GTR. And that's many, many people of my
generation's dream car. But you're going to have to drop half a million dollars to get one.
But what if you could become a fractional owner of that car, you get exposure to the price appreciation but unlike you know a lot of our
other rwa projects uh you know tokenizing stocks or uh treasuries or bonds or other financial
instruments not all you can do is open up your your app see how you're performing, say, okay, cool, or damn it, and close it and on with your
day. In our case, you get real benefits as a co-owner of the vehicle in various ways. So one
is you're part of a close-knit community of co-owners who proposes and votes on cool things
to do with the car because cars are just not something that's meant to be
stuck in a garage collecting dust and disintegrating they need to be driven you know they are um you
know they could kind of in the era of social media become celebrities in their own rights you know
like you'll see a special car on instagram and it has 5 million followers, just an account about the car. So creating content,
creating merchandise, creating digital twins of these cars that can be played in partner web 3
video games. All this stuff is sort of decided on by the community of co-owners who together steer the direction of how that car will generate revenue. So there is a
real yield component to this that's not just Ponzi-nomics, but by tapping the community of
co-owners, they can find new ways to monetize the car, and then it also generates revenue for them as shareholders so
two sort of financial opportunities that arise out of fractional ownership of collector cars
and then of course the thing that everybody asks is okay but can you drive the car and the answer
is in some cases yes like i, the cars need to be driven.
So, you know, that's just part of the maintenance.
So the co-owner could schedule a time to come to our facility
and either take a ride in the car or drive it themselves
if, you know, their insurance is sufficient.
And then also, whenever we take these cars to events, you know, like a F1 race
or a big motorsports festival, there will be opportunities to experience the car there
as a VIP as well. So the RWA side is a really big component of what we're doing. But ultimately
what we're trying to accomplish at Driven Labo is to bring the global car culture
on change I'm sorry I knew I threw a lot at you right there but uh no that's okay it's really
awesome to listen to what you're saying and you know this is what we do these long form spaces
for is because we love to learn about everything people are doing and you know
how it starts i mean listening to you just talk about combine combining your two passions together
i thought that was absolutely awesome to be honest and it's it's good to see that
you know you know that isn't only a possibility but you're actually doing it
yep yep if i'm gonna work uh 14 hours a day i might as well do what i love right oh absolutely
so you know it sounds like your journey's been quite a long one as well and um it's awesome to
to hear that you learned about this technology so early on um i think a lot of people were kind of
similar on that front where you know they kind
of heard about it they you know they touched on it a little bit and you know of course real life
happens so if it's not something that can pull your focus you know you kind of carry on with
real life and then it kind of comes back into your into your path again and you know sometimes it
sticks and you know in this case it did which is awesome oh yeah i had my uh my journeys away from crypto there early on but uh definitely pulled me back in
so you mentioned you mentioned about um a facility um so have you got a facility for
for vehicles to to be collected now or is that something that you're working towards?
Yeah, so my business partner is in Denver, Colorado, and he owns a dealership out there that specializes in these really unique cars.
So he'll source them mostly from Japan, but he can get them from anywhere in the world and imports them for his customers.
Japan, but you can get them from anywhere in the world and imports them for his customers.
So currently that's our main facility for storing, well, our first vehicle that we're
going to be offering to our platform.
We are still very new, but the first car is Paul Walker's 1999 Ferrari 360 Modena.
And shortly after that one goes live on our platform, we'll be bringing some other cars in as well. But ultimately, our objective is within the next six months to a year, we are going to be opening up a facility in Austin, Texas, where we'll be able to store all of our cars. And Austin is a huge car culture mecca.
They've got the Circuit of the Americas track out there,
which brings hundreds of thousands of people into the city from around the world for multiple races a year.
So a really good place for us to establish our roots.
The Ferrari 360 Medina, yeahina yeah yep you know what that's that's one of my least favorite ferraris
um and it's because someone bought it that simon cowell bought one and as soon as i can't love that
car anymore that's an interesting reason not to like it
i'm a big fan of jdms though massive fan of jdms um my mate's got a spotlight midnight purple
with all the gold options and um oh it's a beaut oh it's a beaut yeah i mean i keep saying it but
that's our generation's classic cars you know know, we're not really interested, you know, being in the U.S.
We're not really interested in the muscle cars or the hot rods that our parents and grandparents were into.
We want the cars that we grew up seeing in Fast and Furious movies or we drove in Gran Turismo or Corza, right?
You know, that we watched Initial D.
And, you know, so these are the ones that our generation
is going to cut it already are
yeah definitely i mean good choice for the with the sylvia um the 240 i think it's a good choice
of solid motor i think they're kind of timeless um as long as you kind of like do some
stuff to it to kind of change its aesthetics you can't really go wrong to be fair um
it's it's a it's a classic that looks more that you can make look modern you know if you know
what i mean um you can kind of take that take that boxy look and make it make it curvy but uh yeah i do like the modified scene i um i ran a an
organization in my local area for a little while um a coke and uh yeah it was just us with our mates
and a bunch of their mates and whoever found out what was happening and we'd all descend on a
particular area and uh yeah we just would chill we'll chill we'll talk about a car what
we've been doing what we're modding um you know maybe we've got some you know a few people with
some different cars you know a few people that just couldn't decide what they wanted and every
every three weeks they turn on a different motor um but you know i love the scene you know i love
the the modified scene the jap scene with a close friend of mine amongst the
big japanese uh wing near near us and uh he's got a quite unique subaru impreza uh it's one of 500
um it's a it's a it's a 500. and uh it's it's uh he's got quite a quite a funky uh bonnet hood so he's got like a stick
that he puts in to hold the bonnet up and it's got like a scooby-doo wrapped around the stick
which i think is really cool i always really appreciate when i see that but yeah i i like
the mod scene i i like the jap cars um i'm i'm definitely all about that you know i mean
yeah yeah i mean and that's what we're really trying to tap into is there's JAP cars, I'm definitely all about that, you know what I mean? Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, and that's what we're really trying to tap into is there's deep passion for these cars
and just tons of communities around the world.
So one of the things that we're going to be incorporating into our app
is a variety of tools and resources
that are going to allow people to better organize
their local car clubs or meetups
or to collaborate with other car clubs. And you'd be surprised there's a lot of really
interesting things that you can do with on-chain assets and media that could really, no pun
intended, but supercharge community building.
And that's one of the things that I've been kind of trying to solve for as like a phase two thing here is cars and coffees.
These are like the ubiquitous meetup that exist in pretty much every single city that has a car scene.
But they tend to be kind of clicky and, you know, there's not really a sense of community. So I think that there's an opportunity to create tools to onboard people
into our app and therefore into Web3 that will help to facilitate deeper connections in their local community.
So, you know, not just about the financialization of rare cars,
but also solving the interpersonal challenges of building community around, in this case, cars.
So is that by allowing people to create their own groups and then as other groups are visible,
people could collaborate? Is that the idea?
Exactly, yeah. So we're still kind of fleshing this out on the back end since it's, you know,
probably a phase two product that will be rolled out into our app. But yeah, creating community
building and community management features.
And you can even, like, there's some ideas we're playing with, such as, like, reputation and, like, building clout within your community.
You know, a common thing that happens when you get a lot of car people together
is you always end up kind of bringing
somebody into your group that you shouldn't and they're the ones that you know maybe you know get
drunk on the uh the at the night meet and try and do donuts and then call the you know get the cops
called on you and then you know you like can't go back to that spot anymore so there's some some
opportunities to kind of maybe have a little bit of a reputation system in there.
So, you know, who's a good person to allow into your group and who's not.
I'm not a big fan of social credit scores, but I think there's a way we could do this where it's not going to be abused.
not going to be abused.
So just to kind of tap back into your ecosystem a little bit,
I mean, first of all, you know,
we appreciate the background on you and your journey
and your passion and how you've tied that
into blockchain technology,
which I think is really awesome.
And, you know, tying the real world assets
like that into the blockchain is always exciting um is that the way your ecosystem is going to
continue forward or have you got any ideas to kind of jump into the virtual world and maybe
make some games around this or am i jumping the gun a little bit there? Oh, absolutely. That's a big part of our roadmap.
So I'd say the car culture extends beyond just those that are lucky enough to own a car that they can wrench on or take to meets.
But there's a lot of people that would love to, but they get their fix by sim racing or playing racing games or just watching
you know watching f1 and so one of the things that is going to be a perk for all of the holders
of our cars is they will get a digital twin of that vehicle that if you're if you own a full
share of a vehicle you'll be able to use your car
throughout all of our partners' video games. But we're also going to set up a system where there's
sort of bespoke versions of those cars that even if you're not a shareholder in the car,
you could purchase it and drive it in just that game. And then that becomes a revenue stream
back to the community of co-owners.
So we're currently, we've got a few partnerships lined up
with Automotive Web 3 video games.
And we're also going to be working on a few of our own,
mostly kind of starting with like in-appapp mini games just because it's an easy lift
yeah that is absolutely awesome and really exciting as well um yeah i think i think for a
lot of a lot of people um you know i think games was where people's love for cars kind of began.
You know, I mean, as young boys, you know,
women love cars too, of course,
but as young boys loving, you know, anything that has an engine,
I really did, you know, get a kick from games
and appreciation for cars and, you know,
the McLaren rally car games.
And they said grand
ray's mom my brother was a big fan um he was a big lover of the uh of the car magazines just for
the cars i'm sure um but uh still a and i'm kind of tapping into that because i also see that you
guys do a weekly newsletter which i've just pinned that up so i was just looking through some of your
posts to find some stuff pointing towards what you guys are doing just to kind of
help give people something to look at and uh i noticed that you guys do a newsletter as well
which is cool yeah thanks for pinning that up um yeah so one of the uh divisions of driven labo
is driven culture and so uh we're starting off with our weekly newsletter we're actually on
issue number 86 now so we've been doing this for quite a while as a weekly newsletter but we're
going to be moving into daily articles and and high production value youtube videos
we've also played around with doing a podcast although it's been hard to kind of keep
that consistent. Probably going to bring that back. But yeah, putting out a lot of content
that meets the automotive enthusiasts where they're at. So like if you look at our newsletter,
you'll notice that it's, you know, 80 to 90 percent focused on car culture, and then we weave in Web3 in there to, you know, capture the
interest of the traditional automotive enthusiast.
And that's kind of going to be our model for all of our content is, you know, it's for
enthusiasts by enthusiasts first, but there's always going to be a thread back to web 3 for those that
that appreciate what we're doing yeah that's awesome and I kind of love that
as well about you know how this space is starting to really help make like
reading entertaining you know when I I wasn't really too much of a reader i kind of
regret that now but you know when i first came into the space myself um you know and then started
to learn that like research is a fundamental element to the space especially if you want to
you know further your knowledge or you know dive deeper into projects and and learn um but it's
great to see people making this like you referred to it as
as like a piece of content you know a way for people to just kind of like keep that spark alive
with people's passion and keep people interested and help people learn about things and keep tapped
into things through these newsletters and i just think it's a great element to help people
further engage and you know learn more and be entertained along the
way as well thanks yeah i mean that's really the vision and why we're putting together the whole
media side of it as well and then the other thing to mention too is that we're going to be kind of
going heavy into tba so we our project's all built on base
because we feel that it's going to be
the best entry point for retail.
In the U.S., Coinbase is already kind of the first stop
when people, when the normies kind of come in
to dip their toe into crypto.
But now with the introduction of the base app, DBA, that really opens the door for a
really streamlined user experience where people have their wallet, their social media, mini apps,
messaging, you know, P2P payments all in one location. And so in our next major update of the Driven Vehicles beta app,
we'll be having it fully optimized for TBA
so mobile users can interact with our app there,
buy, sell, trade shares of vehicles,
and everything else that we roll out within the app.
Oh, and not to mention, read all of the content we'll be putting out.
All of that will be accessible in our mini app as well.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Sorry, Beckon, go ahead.
Yeah, what kind of content could people expect from the newsletter?
What kind of content?
What kind of content?
So, yeah, as I mentioned before, it covers everything from IRL, online, and on-chain car culture.
So, we always provide, at the beginning, a featured listing from our dealership partner in Denver.
our dealership partner in Denver. This week we featured a 97 Mazda RX-7
Bathurst edition, one of 700 ever made. And then I tend to use that as kind of like
a graphical element throughout. The second story is always kind of a philosophical life lesson
using automotive metaphors as spoken by our mascot, Buster, which you see him down in the
crowd there. Buster is our ecosystem token.
It's kind of modeled after a meme coin,
even though it's a governance and culture coin.
But yeah, we've got our,
we call them Buster's based meditations.
And then from there, we do headlines from motorsports,
automotive gaming, automotive web 3 and culture.
And so, yeah, you get kind of like a really good snapshot of everything that's happening across the entire automotive culture,
kind of picking the top headlines of the week.
that's awesome and and when it comes to web3 have you tapped in with any other ecosystems yet have
That's awesome.
you you know created any partnerships or collaborations is that something your ecosystem
is looking to do oh absolutely yeah we're always looking for partnerships uh you know primarily with other projects and brands that are automotive focused
uh so um we are working on collaborations with a company called spredict and they are they're on um
on abstract and they do uh like professional sports prediction games so they've got one for
formula one which i'm a huge formula one fan if you're a true automotive enthusiast you kind of professional sports prediction games. So they've got one for Formula One,
which I'm a huge Formula One fan if you're a true automotive enthusiast,
you kind of have to be.
And then there's a game called Racino.
So they're a Formula One style race management game
that's all on chain.
And then we're working with a number of other projects
that have more of like a metaverse style experience where we'll have all of our cars featured in there as drivable in-game assets.
Have you spoken to MetaRides yet?
I'm sorry, can you say that one more time?
Have you spoken to MetaRides yet?
MetaRides, yes. MetaRides is definitely one of our contacts.
They've been extremely busy.
I'm sure if you follow them, you know they're building a lot.
But yeah, we're in ongoing conversations with them
about exploring a good way that our two ecosystems
can benefit one another.
Yeah, I kind of tell them the great connectors um in web three years metarides um we should we share many friends um like you say if
you know anything about what they've been up to uh they've been super super busy rev right that up
i mean to get my rides on um but yeah no um i figured that would be a good connect for you uh
if you're not already connected with those guys because they've been around for a bit
and i can kind of see how your interests would collide
so so how far are you um you into your journey here?
Well, I've been working on this project for about two years now and really started to gain traction.
Sorry, I had to call.
Really started to gain a lot more traction in the last couple of months when we released our beta app
right now it's out and available for our community members to you know give us feedback on the ui and
everything our next major update as i mentioned before is coming out in the next few weeks we'll
be attending the onchain summit in san San Francisco in just under a month.
And so we're aiming to have our fully updated app that is available inside of TBA
done before I arrive in San Francisco.
And then we're also aiming to have the sale of the Ferrari's shares
available by that time as well. So yeah, a lot of development
going on in the background and really focused on just bringing product to market. And then
two weeks ago, we relaunched the Buster token. We originally launched it about eight months ago but there was in order for us to
build for the long term the way that we wanted we identified that we needed to update our contract
to be more efficient or secure and to accommodate some some future focused features
to accommodate some future-focused features.
And so we relaunched the token a couple of weeks ago
and been kind of flying under the radar
while we work on building our community up.
But you can see Buster down here in the audience.
Go give it a follow.
We actually just updated the PFD
because all of the project attendees
that are going to OnChain Summit got a special PFP fashioned after their mascot.
So that's why he looks a little funky right now.
But we just updated that before this space.
But yeah, I would appreciate anybody who's interested in what
we're doing giving buster follow giving us a follow and uh checking out our community and
checking out our token yeah appreciate that info bro thank you uh we do have uh uncle corvis on
the stage probably inspired by your awesome uh car stuff unk happy friday sir how are we thank you for
joining us happy saturday morning you guys are out of control got me out of here in the am
in the future trying to do burnouts out in the middle of the street hot diggity what a space what a cracker what an
absolute joy to come on finally onto web 3 and here's someone talking about fast cars rice cookers
muscle cars the whole bit god damn i'm living the dream out here right now seriously far out
talking my language talking my language cannot wait to tap in further but
no it's good to be here good to be here thanks for having me happy
uncle i take it you're in australia by your time zone and uh and an accent 100 100 the thunder
from down under i'm up here to do burnouts and talk skid pans and
let's go fast and the furious tell me more parts from australia and they're taking their time can
you uh go kick their ass for me so i can get my parts already
send it down let me know who they are i used to do deliveries for ford
no i'm just joking but um no, I'm far out.
This is full on.
I love this project.
I've just followed you and Buster.
Definitely tapping in for sure.
Would love to connect further.
I'd love to see you connecting with Jobu
and having a look at what he's done with CertLink
and his little car app that he's got going there as well
for parts and everything for dealerships
that's a bit of fun there but um no i'm loving i'm loving what i'm hearing loving what i'm hearing
because i think you guys get along like a house on fire um he sees the big value in bringing all
of this to the blockchain and the whole just everything about it everything about the whole
car industry needs to be on here um for example i'm in the middle of opening a food truck
but we're going to be in the car park of a go-kart center and they have got oh man they're
booked out for the next four months uh every second weekend they've got car clubs coming down
to show off their cars you've got old school australian muscle cars you've got brand new
like you know high luxury cars coming in you've got the little rice cookers coming in um like all of these car clubs are
turning up and doing massive events like something like this oh man oh man i can't wait to just i
can't wait to tell the cats that i'm about to tell about you guys holy shit yeah this is cracker awesome yeah and that's the opportunity we see to get this out
to to everybody is car clubs and the culture is strong and uh you know we find some some interesting
ways to incentivize people who uh frequent uh you know car meets to onboard one another to the app
know car meets to onboard one another to the app we're we're growing the you know the web3 space
enormously there's millions upon millions of car enthusiasts around the world
100 100 um it's just going to be it's and it's only going to keep growing um and with the new
tech and everything and the whole lot and all of the mods you can start throwing on now it's out of control um so the guy that's designing my wraps
the guy that's going to be wrapping the food trucks in the future uh he actually just won uh
he's got a little volkswagen gti and he just won one of the car shows um it's this lime green crazy
little rice cooker you know it's all of these people that are involved with the communities
and the magazines and the clubs and the enthusiasts.
Like my neighbour, for example.
There's four cars sitting in the garage.
Minimum $2 million worth of cars sitting there.
It's all the Camaros, Monaros, all old school Australian muscle.
monaros all old school australian muscle they're worth a bomb um and the you know it's like they're
They're worth a bomb.
all old heads and the new heads and they all see the value and yeah i love it i love it i love it
i love it can't wait to tap in further nice well i hope to see you uh in our community we have got a
a discord server we're trying to you know bring in true automotive enthusiasts who are also you know crypto natives right now so uh you're just our kind
of people oh i'll definitely be getting in there and uh we'll bring the crowd too we'll bring the
boys from down under and we'll see if we can get some of the uh the parts guys in there too and make it make it easier for you oh yeah i want to see some holdings in our uh uh discord let's go i love it you are right
though about the enthusiasm and the passion in in cars and and you know i'm i'm all in favor for for just groups of people coming together to
share things that they care deeply about that matter to them um you know there's a place in
the world for all of us um but unc your energy in the am needs to be studied my friend i mean
i don't even honestly know how you're able to um even, I think we've got it, the UK, I've got it wrong with tea.
Maybe we should have been on coffee.
I don't know if you know anything about coffee,
but, you know, if you've got any tips, you could give us,
we're all ears.
Coffee?
Right.
Just so happens.
No, I've been saying this for a while.
I need to be studied.
You know, I'm an enigma it's you know
i came here you know like when i meet people it's always you know shake the hand it shook the world
but uh you know i'm here for the people got to be humble so uh no i'm happy to be here
very happy to be here always grateful to be up on stage with you boys you guys are legends doing
big things doing big things can't deny you
know community always number one um ever since i got here i'll say it again i've been saying it
since day one the meta and the go-to and the only thing that matters here and in the future is
people that's it that's the alpha that's the alpha people community why you think we're all here on
the spaces you know why we're all here on spaces and why everyone wants spaces and everyone's bitching about the space being so quiet
Because as humans beings we thrive for the campfire and when you got good campfires going
Brother I'm always gonna turn up. So I love I love love love these spaces. Don't get on to them enough
But yeah glad I I turned up today.
Let's go.
I'm definitely going to go do some burnouts later on.
Let's go.
I appreciate you, bro.
But, you know, and I appreciate you coming in and giving your thoughts
on what Rex is building and, you know, and just people's passion.
And you're absolutely right.
You know, that is Alpha from the Omega. So I love that that and you're right you know it is it is the people that's you
know one of the reasons why i really really appreciate these conversations because you know
behind the tech is people and that's where the trust has to be although a lot of the tech is
trustless there's a lot of trust that does need to be had um and i think that it's a great opportunity and it's great to
see the world coming together um like this through social media it's amazing and and through passion
and purpose you know we all have a purpose i believe um and seeing people bring these things
to this industry and building something that matters to them and are then able to do things with that value i just
think it just blows my mind every time every time i think about it you know the more i learn about
it i think it's awesome but um just to tap back in with um you rex um i know you're saying that
your ecosystem is kind of in its earlier stages it sounds like there's been a lot of planning
behind this um and i was just gonna
ask a bit more about like are you operating alone have you got a team um are you kind of working with other enthusiasts are you able to just kind of like unpack that for us a little bit
for sure yeah so uh small still uh i've got uh my buddy gary who's uh hanging out behind the Buster account right now.
He helps with a lot of the marketing and community management.
We've got some mods, of course, for our TG and Discord.
And then I've got two business partners.
One I had already mentioned before, who is the owner of a specialty automotive dealership in Denver,
primarily doing high-end JDM imports.
And then another business partner who's kind of our business guru.
He's a highly successful multi-company owner who kind of helps keep us
on the straight and narrow. And so as far as our Web3 team goes, still relatively small,
but our hope is that our community will grow. We can start to tap into our community to you know find real talent uh and not only reward them for
just being proactive and providing content and providing um you know solutions and what have
you but uh you know eventually being able to hire some of our our true fans into our team directly
yeah no thank you.
Great answer.
And, you know, you unpacked that really well.
I appreciate that.
And, you know, of course, there's still a lot to learn
and a lot to dive into.
But, you know, it seems like you are taking a good approach.
You know, it's coming from a place of passion.
You see where the value is.
You know, you're really creating a club.
You're creating the content for people to, you know,
to learn and to read. You know the you've got a nice website you've got great places
for people to kind of stay connected um you know and you're really looking to build this out and
you know that's awesome that's what this space should always be about is providing an opportunity
for someone to you know unpack a purpose or a passion into this tech and help it
you know authentically blossom into whatever it's set out to be
yeah yeah all the pieces are in place so now we just uh get out and spread the word and uh
bring in our tribe so that's where we're at
let's go that's awesome well you know we are coming close to the end of our space but again I do want to thank you for being a second guest as well you know we appreciate
having to wait the first hour it was awesome you was able to learn more about
cheer from Gene a brilliant mind you know doing phenomenal things in the space and
it's great to meet you for the first time as well and learn more about you and your team and your ecosystem as well.
It sounds like you are aspiring to do great things
and it sounds like things are really taking off nicely
and you're heading in the right direction.
So, you know, thank you for unpacking that for us tonight as well.
And, you know, it really does feel like you really do represent the ecosystem well you sound like a really um you know calm laid-back professional
person that takes this very serious um so you know i just thought it was an opportunity just
to say that the way you conduct yourself is is really is really awesome it was you know nice to
talk to you easier for the conversation and uh you know you really tapped into your ecosystem in a way that helped you know me personally on map it in my mind so i could kind of make sense of
everything that you're trying to build there well i really appreciate that and uh again i appreciate
you giving me the opportunity to come up here and speak and share what we're doing with your audience
uh it was a really great show and as dense as that first
hour was, I got a lot from it. It was really fascinating. But yeah, I just gotta kind of
throw it out there to those that are listening. If you are interested in what we're doing,
we'd love to have you in the community. Please check out our Discord,
go sign up for our newsletter,
and of course, check out our token Buster.
And it's very early, as they say.
So bright future ahead.
Yeah, thank you, Rex.
We appreciate that.
And yeah, it's been an awesome space it was
it's been amazing to tap in with the cheer community once again you know we always
appreciate you guys and your drive to support what you believe in and help people learn and
you know we thank you as well for coming in and allocating two hours a night to uh
listen into cheering to uh to educate us for the first time on who you guys are and what you're
trying to accomplish um we'll go around the room and we'll get some closing remarks and we'll wrap this space up but you know thank you to to the
community thank you to the core team um and everyone that supports these spaces and helps
make it possible we are going to be back again tomorrow at the same time 9 p.m uk time till 11
p.m uk time um we've got some awesome guests lined up for tomorrow so we are super excited about that
we will be featuring the sloths once again which we always love speaking with the sloths they're
doing great things they've done great things and continue to do that so we're excited about that
um and we will be featuring honey drops nft for the first time so we're meeting some more people
again for the first time which we're excited about that as well because as tonight you know we've met we've met rex and it was a pleasure
to to speak with you and we look forward to learning more about you and your ecosystem and
seeing how all this unravels and hopefully the communities will keep growing and connecting with
one another and uh supporting this space so that it can be a place that still exists 10 years from
now so that being said i will go around
the room and get some closing remarks off everybody so we'll start with um you of course bacon do you
have any closing remarks or anything you wish to add there sir yeah yeah another great space tonight
really enjoyed catching up with gene um i really love his mission um i fully back him in what he's doing
and making new friends i like to make new friends so uh welcome driven this won't be the first time
we speak we will meet each other many many times in the future no doubt but uh yeah good night boys
yeah thank you beckon i'm well said but yeah i mean there's making new friends and then there's making new friends with fast cars i mean definitely a good way to uh to start any friendship so uh
nice move there rex i like it but uh yeah we'll definitely be getting gene back again in the not
so distant future um we'll be getting him back with bram cohen so uh we'll that'll make a great
space so we'll keep you guys informed on on when that is um because we always look forward
to these awesome spaces with these legends um but uh z3 in the building as well z have you got any
closing remarks or anything you wish to add there sir oh it was a great space i'll look forward to
seeing you speaking to you tomorrow let's go a nice one z absolutely and a massive shout out to crypto tour down there
as well who is working basically seven days a week doing 50 different things appreciating him
still being here even when he's doing multiple other things and a massive shout out to christian
abbott the the founder of doglins and the stray dogs club and the core team member behind what
we're doing and you know he's done
a great job with the website and the book project and which is you know something we've all been
working on and really excited about we hopefully will have some more updates in the not so distant
future as well so yeah massive shout out to you legends also Miss Evie down there as well
an absolute legend also a core team member and always running the mental health spaces and i
telegram every tuesday at 9 p.m as well so if anyone wants to come and just connect with us and
support mental health if people need someone to talk to or want to get things off the chest
we're not experts but we are very compassionate about each other and people so people are always
welcome to do that as well we'll get some closing remarks of you onk it was
good to see you and big love to the family and uh yeah how and how have you found tonight bro all
right mate always a pleasure always a pleasure lovely spaces um once again appreciate it and
always grateful to be up on stage uh love what i heard from chia uh and yeah i just posted there my little nfts that
i got ages ago from butters i don't know if everyone remembers old butters um but he was
he got me onto cheer while i back so it was good to hear from them and learn a bit more and you
know realize that yeah it's good good it's going off it's going to be good pumped for driven or
driving driven we'll call it driving you got it right
now we'll call it it's australian now it's driving so anyway um that can be that can be the aussie
you know affiliate version driving you know what we can do a little pixelated offshoot project no
i'm joking um but massive shout out i love the space space. Shout out to Z, bacon.
Always love it.
Um, and can I just,
I want to be cheeky.
I wanted to give a massive shout out.
He was in the room.
Oh God damn it.
He left.
It was old Nemo.
I'd love to see him on a space out here talking about what he does.
But,
and I'm going to leave you with a closing remark.
Stop being the go-to person,
the people you can't go to.
Stay blessed. Unc signing off. Keep it juicy. stop being the go-to person for people you can't go to stay blessed here
Ankh signing off keep it juicy
love that thank you that was awesome and appreciate the kind words as well and that you can always be
cheeky and I'll space as you know that bro and I appreciate you being here as well so uh you know
thank you so much for always supporting and doing the amazing things you do we'll have to definitely get you back on in the not so distant future but uh yeah
bring your friend with you as well we can uh we'll we'll make a space of it but uh yeah driving
driven sounds a lot better than what i i tried to pronounce at the beginning i spelled it out
drvn i struggled with that as well it's four layers and i'm like i don't think i can do this
but uh no i appreciate your own career legend but yeah um rex have you got any closer remarks
you would like to add before we uh before we wrap up here sir uh no just want to thank you guys
again this was a really great space i love the uh the back and forth and the you know the sort
of casual nature of it it's always good to just
sit back and have a chat with people that are genuinely curious and interested in what we're
doing let's go thank you bro it's been a pleasure and we definitely look forward to doing this again
in the future so thank you for helping us get more educated on on you and what you're doing
and a massive thank you to having listened in in. To anyone that listens back to the recording as well,
we really do appreciate you guys as well.
Thank you for tuning in, for showing support.
And we're definitely excited to keep moving forward
with these spaces, our community movement,
and trying our best to bring communities together
and help provide educational content like this
for people to learn and have these conversations
to further connect the world
on and off the blockchain.
So that being said, we will catch you legends the same time tomorrow with two more guests
for you guys.
And until then, have a safe night, stay blessed, and we will catch you legends next time. I'm down. We rise, egg spaces buzzin' truth ain't disguised
Friday's Saturday's voices implify Together we're strong, unites are tied
Thy revolution, words like heavy artillery Bacon sandwich co-hosts feed mental artillery
Late in the week, eggs march our territory Stories unfold, shaking our narrative, no allegory
Community of communities, we rise.
Head to space is us, and truth ain't disguised.
Friday, Saturday, these voices amplify.
Together we're strong, unity's our guide.
Vite revolution, we're...
