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WEB3 | +C.O.C ft META-BUILDERS | webacy
Recorded: May 13, 2023 Duration: 2:20:25Space Recording
Full Transcription
Good afternoon and welcome to our Saturday night crypto and NFT space.
How is everyone doing this afternoon?
Thank you for joining.
Tonight we are featuring WebEasy and MetaBuilders and our co-hosts are The Bacon Sandwich and Tricky Buddha.
Good afternoon, guys.
How are we doing?
Doing great.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, I'm really excited to hear about more about WebEasy.
It's something that I've used for a while.
Obviously, I know all about MetaBuilders, but I'm looking forward to hearing it from his point of view.
So, yeah, it should be a great one.
I'm really looking forward to it.
Yeah, me too.
Definitely.
Super excited.
And, yeah, thank you, WebEasy.
Sorry, I don't know your name.
But, yeah, appreciate that.
Yeah.
I mean, you can either refer to it as WebEasy or Bobby.
That's fine.
Either way.
Yeah, brilliant.
Cheers.
Yeah, well, I did start the space, but we had some technical difficulties.
So, I had to start a new link and then try and get that out as fast as humanly possible.
So, a few people should be joining very shortly.
But, how are you doing this afternoon?
You doing good?
Yeah, doing great.
Yeah, happy to be here.
Yeah, brilliant.
Yeah, appreciate it.
No, looking forward to it.
So, I'm just going to get this shirt out to the rooms that I've had it showed out to.
But, in the meantime, I'm just going to get Tricky up as well.
But, yeah, no, I appreciate you guys coming down tonight.
I'm really looking forward to it because, you know, cyber security and, you know, just
security across the Web3 space in general is a really big issue for a lot of people.
And, I'm really excited to learn about how you guys can help with all the things that
you guys work with.
So, I'm super excited about that.
Yeah, we're excited, too.
And, glad we can be up here with MetaBuilders, who's been a great ambassador for us, you know,
in the past few weeks.
So, yeah, definitely.
Welcome, Mike, as well.
Yeah.
No, MetaBuilders are phenomenal.
And, you know, they're an absolute blessing to be around, definitely.
You know, these guys have been in the industry a while as well.
And, you know, we're lucky to be around them as well because there's many things these guys do.
Super excited to be around them for certain.
But, yeah, right.
So, that's being shared out now.
So, yeah, so, to start off with, whatever you said, do you want to talk a little bit
about what you guys do and, you know, the main thing that brought you guys into the industry?
That would be awesome.
Yeah, sorry.
Can you say that one more time?
Yes, of course.
Yeah, so, we'll start off with, if you guys just want to give an introduction about what
services you guys provide and what it is that you guys do, that would be brilliant.
Yeah, for sure.
So, you know, we kind of have a three-pronged approach and that's how we're going about security.
So, that is assess, monitor, and act.
So, from the assess standpoint, we basically have a tool called a risk score, which will,
you'll be able to go in, you don't even have to connect your wallet.
You can type in a wallet address that you control.
And it will look at the different contracts you've approved, different sites you've interacted
with, all of your on-chain stuff, and it'll give you a score.
So, it's either low, medium, or high.
But you'll get a pretty good idea of, like, hey, if you want to whip up a multi-sig, you
know, who should the signers be?
Probably not high-risk wallet addresses.
And so, that is kind of the assess, just to get a good idea of where you're at, you know,
to see that baseline of, you know, what your activity has been.
The next one is monitor.
So, we have something called Wallet Watch.
And what this does is essentially allows you to get any notification and real-time alerts.
So, while this stuff is still in the mempool, you know, it hasn't even been confirmed on
Etherscan yet or on the blockchain yet.
So, while it is still pending, you will get a notification and it will tell you exactly
what's happening.
So, you know, you sold an NFT, your bid was accepted, somebody, you know, your beloved NFT
is on the way out and you never listed it for sale, you know, whatever it may be that's
happening on-chain.
And, you know, when you're away from Keyboard, you're going to get these notifications that,
you know, will basically just keep you always in the loop.
You always have your finger on the pulse and if something were to happen, you're actually
able to prevent catastrophe because the majority of times we read these threads, people are
just like, they find out they've been drained from like a DM from a friend.
So, this is just, and these two tools I've talked about are both free and it's really
just, you know, to increase the awareness of the user.
So, I'll kind of stop there.
But those are like the first two things of our three-pronged approach when it comes to
self-custody security.
Yeah, no, that's brilliant.
And I love the score feature as well because, you know, it's very hard to sort of weigh up
the, you know, what level of security, you know, your wallet's sort of been around in
regards of the space itself, especially if someone's like new to the industry and that,
you know, they're working away around the space.
It's good that there's a score system that people can utilise.
I think we've got a bit of a connection issue there, no?
Yeah, I was just going to say then, yeah.
Yeah, Bobby, your audio started to play up a little bit there, my friend.
I think we just dropped down.
And we'll bring him back up again, see if we can get his audio back.
Yeah, so, I mean, I'll just expand on some of the things that he was talking about,
with things like token approvals.
You know, token approvals is the first stage of potentially getting hacked.
So, you know, understanding those and being able to revoke those is something that's quite
important for security.
Mentioned multisig wallets.
That's something that I haven't done a huge amount of research on.
I kind of figured it was pretty self-explanatory.
But I kind of feel like I should have a multisig set up just for an extra layer of security
so that I know that something can't happen without my say-so.
Sorry about that.
I don't know what happened, but I should be back.
Can you hear me?
Yeah, you're good.
All right, cool, cool.
Sorry, yeah.
So, I got cut out basically right when I stopped talking.
I couldn't hear the reply there from Thy Revolution.
Is your audio okay now?
It is.
Yeah, brilliant.
Yeah.
Sorry about that.
Yeah, no, I couldn't hear what your response was to me.
I think it just broke up a little bit.
Yeah, I was...
Yeah, you were just talking on the point system, weren't you, Rev?
Yeah, that was right.
Yeah, I thought that was a really good feature, especially for people that are new to Web3
and aren't sure about what isn't a safe environment to be in in regards to your wallet.
So, I thought that was a really cool feature.
Yeah, thanks.
Appreciate it.
And so, yeah, there are a lot of Web3 security tools popping up recently,
if you're familiar with Fire, WalletGuard, some of these other tools,
just because it is just such a needed thing that we've seen where, like,
if you spend any type of significant time, like, in this space,
you're bound to just be on Twitter and see a 10-tweet thread
about how someone basically lost all of their hard-earned crypto
that they've, you know, been acquiring over the months, years,
whatever it may be, to, you know, a social engineering hack, a phishing link, a fake mint.
And, you know, there's just, it's like dodging minds sometimes.
Like, it just seems like, you know, you keep reading these things like,
man, I'm glad that wasn't me.
But, you know, the thing with security is it's like the user has to be right every single time.
The hacker or scammer only has to be right once, and it's game over.
So, it's not a very forgiving environment, that's for sure.
There's no undo button like in traditional banking.
Yeah, I think that's what a lot of people don't understand is that,
that kind of nature of how this technology works is that there is no revert button.
You know, there is no insurance unless you opt in for some sort of insurance product.
Yep, exactly.
Yeah, no, that's a really big problem as well, isn't it?
You know, because, you know, not many people even factor that in,
especially if they're new to the industry.
I was looking when you, on your bio where it specifies, you know,
60 million in assets protected.
Is that from the people that are already utilizing your current features?
Yep, yep, exactly.
So, you know, we crossed 3,000 daily active users earlier this week.
So, you know, we got a lot of people that are using our service.
And like I said, Wallet Watch is free.
And getting a risk score is free.
So, when I get a chance, I will pin MetaBuilders.
They've tweeted about it before.
So, I'll pin their tweet to the top.
And anybody in the audience who wants to just, you know,
take 20 seconds and fill that out can while they're listening.
But, yeah.
So, you know, we're growing pretty quickly.
You know, we have over 100,000 transactions that are analyzed monthly.
You know, we have some people who are very active every single day getting,
you know, more than 100 transactions.
And, I mean, personally, for me, that would always drive me crazy.
But at the same time, they definitely find the value in it of, like,
always knowing what's happening in their wallet.
So, you know, I personally have been using it for a really long time now.
And it's great.
Even when you're less active, just immediately knowing when you get an NFT sale
instead of, you know, having to check your OpenSea email or whatever it may be.
Like, the ETH is entering your wallet.
It's kind of just like a nice little dopamine hit, you know,
when that notification comes in.
So, I suppose some of the ways that these hacks might work is they might actually
need Ethereum for gas fees in order to do what they need to do to drain those
wallets and send it elsewhere.
Yeah.
So, I mean, there's a ton of different ways that, you know, some of these hacks
happen, whether it be social engineering, phishing link, you know, with the Ethereum.
So, yeah.
There's the bad contract approvals.
And there's also, like, if you lose your seed phrase, you know, and someone has
control of it, then obviously multiple people have control of the same wallet.
And that's very bad news.
And so, you know, I kind of talked about our three-pronged approach with the
assess and monitor.
You know, those are, like, our free tools.
But then we also have, like, a premium product suite.
And in there, that's the act portion.
And so this is, like, hey, if you do get that notification of, like, you know, whatever
it may be, like, your Ethereum is moving out of your wallet and you didn't do
anything that would warrant that.
The act portion is something.
So, like, one of the tools is called the panic button.
So this is, you know, if you were put in that position, just imagine you're in this
position where, you know, you kind of just slipped up.
You fell for one of those fake Mint Discord announcements.
You were like, oh, this, like, this is a very trusted community.
They're big.
This must be legit.
You go to the Mint site and then you, like, well, you initiate the transaction and
then you're like, oh, my gosh, you know, something is wrong.
So there's, like, that moment of panic.
And normally, you know, what we've seen is, like, people will come into a Discord just
like, what do I do?
What do I do?
And then, like, everybody's just giving their advice, like, send out all your ETHs so
then the hacker can't send out anything or they're like, you know, start, go to revoke.cash
and just start revoking.
And, like, all of this is, like, decent advice and at times it will, you know, help prevent
catastrophe.
Like, maybe you won't get drained.
But we've basically built a tool called the panic button where you're able to transfer
all of your assets in one transaction to a safe backup wallet.
And so this would be, like, you know, a cold storage, ideally, it can be any wallet you
want.
But ideally, this is a wallet that's, like, cold storage vault ledger, not interacting with
the same contracts, you know, has, that should definitely be a low risk score backup wallet.
And all of our tools are completely non-custodial.
So, like, Webacy, as a company, we cannot move any of your assets, you know, we have no control.
So it's really just, like, an extra life, you can think of that, for your self-custody,
you know, kind of setup.
A panic button.
So if something's happening in your account that it doesn't seem right, you can hit a button
and it will basically, sort of, essentially shield you.
Well, exactly, yeah.
So basically, it would be, like, all of your assets that you, so this, there is some, like,
work you have to do up front to make sure that this is capable of happening.
So it's not just, like, if you sign up for Webacy, after you're hacked, you can go and,
like, execute the panic button.
It's not, it's not ready to go.
You have to do this kind of beforehand where you come into our dashboard and you are essentially
writing a smart contract.
So, you know, you're coming in and you're doing, so similar to if you've ever listed
anything on OpenSea or Uniswap, that very first time you go to trade a, you know, token,
whether it be a non-fungible token or a fungible token, you have to sign, like, that very small
approval.
It's, like, 20 to 50 cents normally.
And you're normally approving that to Uniswap or you're approving it to OpenSea that's saying,
hey, if I list this for two ETH, someone comes and buys that two ETH, they will get
the NFT, I will get the ETH.
But in this case, you're pre-approving it to yourself.
So the only other person that would have control is that wallet that you designate, which is
your safe backup wallet, which is, like I said, a safe ledger, cold storage, you know,
et cetera, et cetera.
So you're essentially creating a backdoor for yourself.
So the contracts would all have to be individually approved in order for them to be involved with
the action?
Yes.
Yeah, that's pretty cool, man.
I think that's a really novel idea.
And, like you say, you know, it's something you have to go into and set up and, you know,
get going.
But, yeah, I like the idea.
I think it's really cool.
Yeah, I was just thinking that was a really great feature.
And also, congratulations on the amount of users that you guys have had as well.
I think that's a really amazing achievement, especially in such a short space of time.
And, you know, over 100,000 transactions analysed, I think it's brilliant because, like I was saying,
you know, the big problem with the space is, you know, the security and people that are
new to it being, you know, taken advantage of.
And having a feature like that, I mean, can be an absolute game changer, especially when
people are operating with, you know, thousands of dollars or even more.
So, is there a sort of guides for these tools as well?
So, if people aren't as, you know, well adapted to Web3, let's say, is there some sort of, you
know, tutorials for people to be able to learn how to utilise these tools?
Yes.
So, I have actually personally gone through, like, a complete Loom video that goes through
and shows, like, how to get set up on the full product suite.
Sorry, can you hear me?
Yeah, loud and clear.
All right, cool, cool.
I was PTSD from the first time.
But, so, with risk score, that first one, like, it's very, very basic.
It's literally, you don't even have to connect your wallet.
You can just type in a wallet address and it will give you the risk score because everything
is done kind of with the on-chain action.
So, you just type in the ENS or address, you get it back.
With Wallet Watch, it is, again, like, you know, a 15-second setup.
You just connect your wallet.
So, you know, if you have MetaMask installed, you just would sign in and then you type in
your email or phone number and hit submit.
And those are the two steps on that one.
And then we do have, like, yeah, like I said, we have a full tutorial loom video that I don't
know if it's completely public.
If it's not public, you can always DM us.
We can send it to you.
And you can get set up, you know, step by step.
But then also the WebEasy team, we do offer, like, if you do sign up and you want to go
through this and you're like, I just would really, like, one-on-one help someone just
to make sure that I do this completely right.
I don't want to make any mistakes.
I want to have my answers or my questions answered.
You know, we can hop on a one-on-one.
We can pass over the Calendly.
You can schedule something and we will, you know, help you get through the full process because,
you know, obviously it is a security product and you definitely don't want, you know,
when that panic moment happens, be like, oh, my gosh, I ended up setting it up wrong
or I forgot to add this token or whatever.
So, yeah, do not hesitate to reach out.
We can, you know, help you get set up.
Yeah, no, that's brilliant.
Yeah, no, thank you.
There is some questions in the comments section.
Are you all right if I read those out to you?
Yeah, absolutely.
Brilliant.
So, one of the questions was, who's auditing your code and your API?
So, we have a CERDIC audit.
You can find it on the website.
It's in the trust and safety section of our website.
So, if you just go to webc.com, scroll all the way down, it'll say trust and safety and
the, like, 39-page CERDIC audit report will be right there and you can check it out.
Ah, wow, that's awesome.
Yeah, that question was from Crypto Never Sleeps.
It does ask two more questions.
I'll read them out if that's all right.
The next one is, how much data are you capturing with these tools and what type of, sorry, what
type of PII and IP, et cetera?
Yeah, so, the only thing, like, what you would submit, so we would have, you know, we have
the email, we have the wallet address and we have the phone number, but that's it.
So, you know, and the phone number and the email are optional and then everything else
is, you know, encrypted.
There's no possibility for leaks, stuff like that.
Ah, no, that's brilliant.
And I think that wasn't the question.
The next one is, is saying, actually, insurance products are active in USA for certain cryptocurrencies.
Yeah, I'm not 100% certain if that's a question.
No, no, that's brilliant.
It's awesome that that's on the website as well so that people can easily find that.
And what would you say so far has been your most effective tool?
Has there been the one that sort of stood out beyond the rest that has, you know, really,
you know, been a great help and that people have talked about?
Yeah, so, I mean, I would probably say WalletWatch just because it is kind of like the, it's the
product that basically everybody starts with.
Like, they check out WalletWatch and, you know, it's useful for all the other tools too,
like where it's like, you know, if you want to execute the panic button, a lot, like the
majority of the time, you're first going to get that notification that, like, you need
to execute the panic button.
So WalletWatch kind of ties in there.
And then there's, you know, just casual users who are just like, you know, I want to know
what's going on in my wallet at all times.
They're signing up.
So that's definitely the most popular product.
I guess there's, I haven't touched on like the full act portion because there is more
than just the panic button.
We do have a crypto will, you know, because that was basically the, what's, I don't know
the word, the motivation to start the company.
That was the inspiration.
The first question is like, what happens to your crypto when you die?
That was, you know, why the company was initially started.
And so we do have that.
We have a crypto will, again, non-custodial.
And it is a question that we like to ask a lot of people where it's like, you know,
if you died, you know, if you get hit by a bus, what would happen to your crypto?
And most people are like, I don't know.
Like, hopefully my spouse that has never touched crypto in their entire life can come
in, unlock my ledger.
And if not, then they can go and get my seed phrase.
And like, you know, when you start actually thinking about it, like kind of people realize
how unprepared they actually are.
And obviously nobody really thinks that something like that would happen to them until it does.
And, you know, then it's just absolute chaos.
And so, you know, that was what founded the company was the digital will.
What happens to your crypto after you die?
And then, you know, as we spent more time in the space, we realized like people are losing
it before they even like have to execute the will, you know what I'm saying?
So it's like we are now focusing on from the start to the finish, helping people on the
security, like spectrum, get all the way across the finish line.
So not get hacked, not get scammed.
And then whenever, you know, that time does come, your beneficiaries will be able to, you
know, receive your assets.
Yeah, I mean, there's a there's a project that I've spent a bit of time with called Serenity
Shield.
And they're solving, you know, that same kind of issue of, you know, what happens when you
die?
What happens to your stuff?
So, you know, how they do it is they have an NFT that locks the stuff inside it.
And then, you know, based on prerequisites, we'll then release it, release the NFT to
next to kin.
And then they can act with Serenity Shield to release the funds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's that's pretty similar to us.
You're able to actually add like three beneficiaries, divvy out the different assets, like you'd
be like, hey, I want my Pudgy Penguin to go to my brother.
I want my Punk to go to my, you know, son, whatever it may be.
And you can actually just go through and do percentages and different NFTs and all that
stuff.
So that's pretty cool.
Yeah.
And it's accomplished through a dead man switch.
So basically, we assign your wallets so you can, you know, bundle all of your wallets
from your cold storage to the one you, you know, degen mint on.
And it has a heartbeat.
So whenever any of them initiate anything on chain, that clock resets.
But after a certain amount of time of inactivity, you know, the dead man switch will trigger.
No assets will ever be transferred, but the beneficiaries will then be able to come in and claim those
assets.
That's quite cool.
So you can sort of divvy up, do you have a sort of a set plan of action for people to
get their stuff?
Yep.
And yeah.
And so right now it's, you know, it's completely like a non-friendly, but on like the near roadmap,
we're also going to integrate stuff that's like, you know, if your son is six years old,
it doesn't make sense for him to like have a wallet address that he needs to like access
to come in and claim the assets.
So we're definitely like working on getting a solution that is, you know, completely anon
friendly, but then also something where it's like, we will make, we will ensure that the
assets that you control, like get to the, you know, beneficiary that you want them to.
So, um, yeah, I mean, I think, I think Serenity Shields have found sort of similar kinds of,
um, uh, obstacles, um, of making it user-friendly, um, and making it as simple to use as possible.
And that's, they're finding that a real challenge.
Um, I'm sure you probably agree that you're, um, experiencing a similar sort of challenge
in, in sort of how to, you know, get it as user-friendly as possible.
Yeah, exactly.
And, you know, there's a ton of like, you know, we were considering like an Oracle that
was going to take death certificates and there's like a lot of, uh, complications with that.
And like people faking their own death or whatever, like whatever it may be.
Um, like, yeah.
So we have like the on-chain, uh, trustless dead man switch, uh, right now, but we're, you
know, we're continuing to build out all of the tools in the entire, um, tool bag of, of
WebEasy.
That is absolutely mind-blowing.
Um, and is the, uh, crypto, uh, well, uh, a legal document?
No, so it's not a legal.
So the, the, the, our digital will, crypto will is essentially just a smart contract.
Um, and, and it'll be achieved very similarly to how I was talking about the panic button
slash backup wallet, um, where you will approve these assets to, um, you know, different
wallets, but the smart contract won't, you know, essentially allow those beneficiaries
to claim until that heartbeat, um, you know, hits a certain time limit.
So right now I think the default is 15 months, which is a long time.
And, you know, we're working on allowing the user to like customize that and make it shorter,
make it longer.
It also depends on the user.
Like if they're an extremely active user, then, you know, you, it probably would make
sense to like shorten that, uh, time down a bit.
But like, there's a lot of people who are just more, um, sit and hold and, uh, yeah.
So it's not, and you're never going to be like blindsided.
So also, you know, with like giving us your email, we're going to be reaching out like,
Hey, you haven't done anything, confirm you're still alive with this on chain, like task.
And then the Oracle will pick it up and, and then, um, you know, the clock will reset kind
of thing.
Um, and then also it's optional, but you can put in emails of those other beneficiaries
where, um, you know, if that time does come, then all the instructions and, and, uh, claiming
instructions will go directly to them.
Um, you know, our numbers to reach out if they need help kind of thing, uh, assets are safely
transferred.
No, that's brilliant.
And, um, and in regards to the wallet watch, um, is there a set amount of notifications
that people have access to?
So it's unlimited.
So the free version is you get, you can watch one wallet unlimited notifications.
Yeah.
Um, if you want to like add all of your wallets, then, um, you know, the options are either is,
is to buy Grimmie.
That's kind of like our native NFT.
Um, so if you own, you know, a Grimmie, you get additional benefits.
Um, and we just rolled out a yearly subscription plan, uh, last week, um, as well, which is
a hundred dollars a year for everything.
Um, how much, how much, how much, sorry, was there?
Oh, so, um, if, um, if you just want to watch one wallet, uh, unlimited, you get unlimited
notifications, um, completely free.
Um, and if you want the like panic button backup wallet and all of that with unlimited
wallets, um, then there is a subscription you can, uh, sign up for that's a hundred dollars
a year.
That is amazing.
To me, that is so worth it.
You know, to have that, to have that many layers of protection and have that, you know,
features that you just wouldn't normally get and have that sort of safety blanket around
your assets for only a hundred dollars a year.
I think that's a brilliant price, actually.
Sure.
You know, and there are, there are lots of people that have lots of money in these wallets
and, you know, um, it would depend on if you've got a couple hundred quid in there, um, a hundred
pound a year might not seem worth it, but if you've got a few thousand in there, then it's
absolutely worth it.
Yep, totally.
And you're able to scale it up.
Like, you know, if you just want wallet watch and then, you know, you start making some good
trades and you're like, all right, you know, I want to take this $10,000 I just made on
Pepe coin, my Pepe coin trade and reinvest 1% of that into, you know, safety to make sure
I don't lose it all.
Um, you know, that would be like the, the wise thing to do in my opinion.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more to that, especially when people are holding, you know, speculative,
uh, speculative assets and when people are, you know, you may, you may, you know, get your
hands on NFTs that are like the start of someone's, you know, journey in, in making NFTs and you
might have 10 separate NFT projects that they've released and you've got access to one of the
first ones.
You know, there's a multitude reasons, but a hundred, a hundred pound a year, I think, you
know, for anyone that's got, you know, even, even a thousand dollars worth of assets that
could potentially be worth a lot more in, you know, bull run after bull run.
Yeah.
So Mike Smart, you got a question?
Yeah.
I was just curious if you had, uh, like if it's already set up to handle corporate accounts,
like if you had 300 people that you needed one of these mechanisms for, for like a business,
would you be able to move that many assets on a moment's notice like that?
Yeah.
I mean, it just depends on how they hold it.
So if it's just held in a single, like in a single wallet, then yeah, absolutely.
I mean that in that case, there's, there's no issues now.
And if it's like, um, you know, a multi-sig for a, uh, corporation that there's multiple
signers, then only, you know, some of like wallet watch would work.
You could get the risk score of the signers.
Um, but executing the panic button would need multiple signatures.
So that would be kind of like a coordinated effort, but that's also like, um, you know,
that's just kind of a difference with, uh, the multi-sig.
There are some nuance there that there are some different, you know, pros and cons of something
like a setup like that.
Um, but the, the crypto will, and that kind of stuff would still, um, be able to be executed
since that's a like pre setup type thing.
So, um, but in the corporate account, like if you're like a custody solution, then, you
know, it really doesn't make sense to go through WebC to be quite honest.
Like, um, if there's like a Coinbase or somebody like that, that's, that's holding the assets,
um, fire blocks or whatever that may be.
Um, yeah, like the, the tools we've been talking about, you know, don't really make as much
sense.
Yeah, no, that was a great question, by the way, Mike.
Um, another question from the comment section by Crypto Never Sleeps.
Uh, I think it was in, in reference to the, um, the data, the data that you were capturing.
Um, is the data stored in a centralized location?
Um, that's a good question.
Um, I'll have to get back to you on that.
I do not really know off the top, to be quite honest.
Yeah, no, that's fine.
Yeah, no problem.
Yeah.
Crypto, Crypto Never Sleeps is a, is a guy that, um, we know from, uh, from TikTok and,
um, he, he's so, he's a real critical thinker and I like it because he always looks from a
different angle at stuff and he's always looking to ask like the tough questions, um, to
to, you know, you know, to, to try and get to those toughest questions, if you know what
I mean.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
No, we, no, we really appreciate that.
And that's, that, you know, that's the best way to grow.
Um, you know, is that, is to really figure out what the people are, you know, what they
want, what, you know, what, like, I, I mean, I guess I can't turn it back on him, but like,
where would you like, you know, the stuff to be stored ideally?
Like that, that kind of stuff that would definitely be, um, beneficial and, and, you know,
help build out the products is, is, you know, feedback is, is very valuable right now
as we continue to build.
I mean, there's, there's a lot of decentralized storage options out there, um, these days
and, um, maybe, maybe there could be a solution, um, or something like that if, if, if, if it
needs it.
Um, but, uh, yeah, like I say, he likes to ask tough questions and I like, I like that.
Um, yeah, he has got a, a really phenomenal level of understanding of the, of the, the
web free space.
So yeah, he definitely asks great questions, but no, I appreciate your honesty with that,
um, Webacy.
So yeah, I've, I've been using Webacy's product for a while.
Um, the, the wallet watch thing.
Um, I think it's great.
I love it.
Um, because there was one occasion where I had done something in the morning, which I
wasn't planning on doing, it was kind of a spare at the moment thing, but it was something
that I probably should have done.
And, um, Oh, I can't remember where I was going with this now.
Uh, yeah.
And then, um, a little bit later I was away from my phone and stuff and a little bit
later I came back to my phone.
I was like, what the hell have I done here?
And then it jogged my memory and I was like, Oh yeah, I did that thing earlier.
And, um, yeah, just, uh, just little things like that were just, just, just to remind
you to keep an eye on yourself almost.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, like if, if you don't have it on, you know, I've like re-logged into my MetaMask
after a while and I'll have like more or less ETH and I'm like, what in the world happened?
And it would be like, then I would go to my ether scan and I would look and I'd be like,
Oh, that bid I made, you know, two weeks ago that was still valid.
Like the floor dropped to that NFT.
And then like, I have a new NFT in my wallet.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Or like somebody just sent me some ETH yesterday and I was like, I, I, I even looked into it.
I got the, I got the notification.
I was like, I have no idea.
It was, it was, it was dust.
It was like, you know, $3, but they sent it to a hundred people.
And I was like, I have no idea what this is, but, uh, just be able to like immediately
get it, look into it.
Like, is this malicious?
Um, that kind of stuff has, has definitely been beneficial to me just in my, you know, personal
crypto use.
Yeah, I definitely think it's brilliant for, for a multitude of reasons.
I'm, I'm really impressed, um, by it, to be honest, and I'm, I'm looking forward to utilizing
them services definitely for, for that level of protection.
You know, what I, what I personally think is a really affordable price.
I think it's brilliant because, you know, that brings a lot of security and just peace
of mind as well of, of knowing you've got, you know, extra, extra layers in place so
that you can, you know, protect your assets, especially when you, you know, you're getting
into things early and with some stuff, you know, you can, you can do your research and
still get caught.
So it's just good to have that extra layer.
Totally.
Yeah.
I mean, we've, we've seen very experienced crypto people.
I mean, you see Kevin, I don't know if you're familiar with Kevin Rose, but, um, you
know, the founder of Moonbirds, like he's been in the space since 2017 doing NFT
stuff, uh, crypto stuff.
And, and, you know, he lost millions of dollars with the NFTs last, maybe last month or two
months ago.
Like, you know, it can really affect anybody.
Um, if you don't always have your guard up.
Yeah.
No, you're not wrong.
You're not wrong with that.
Definitely.
Is, um, anyone who's listening got any questions at the moment before we, before we, before we
carry on?
If so, do put your hand up or do drop it in the comment section and I, and I will definitely
read them out.
So how long have you guys been in the space for?
So me personally, um, I got in late 2020, um, well in NFTs and, and I guess more of like
web three I had owned, um, you know, point before that, but it was kind of just something
where it sat on Coinbase and, you know, I just almost treated it like a stock.
So I, I don't know when I say in the space, I don't really count like back in 2017, 2018,
like when I was just buying stuff on, uh, Coinbase, but at three, like connecting the
wallets, you know, connecting to dApps, stuff like that.
That was personally for me, um, late 2020 bought my first NFT in January of 2021.
Uh, you know, kind of right before everything went crazy.
Um, the company was founded in October of 2021.
Uh, so, you know, we've, we've been around for, for a decent amount of time now.
Um, and like I said, kind of earlier, uh, the, the inspiration for the company is kind
of where it started was just from that one digital wheel product.
You know, we've grown into kind of the full suite.
Yeah.
And I, and I think that's, that's a brilliant way to, you know, to start as well, you know,
cause I mean, first of all, you know, people can have been in the industry for, for years
and years, but you know, how into the industry they've been conveyoring on how much time they
put in and what they spend doing in that time as well, you know, so there's that.
And also, you know, I, I think that's so important to have a digital will for assets because, you
know, for example, I've got five children and my wife is as not interested in this industry
as you can possibly imagine.
So if anything was to happen to me, I know that without a feature like that in place,
she would have absolutely no way of being able to access any of the things that, that
I personally hold.
So it'd be brilliant to have a feature like that in place to help in a situation like
that.
So I think that's a really, a really, really cool feature, but I'm really impressed with
the wallet watch as well.
I think that's brilliant.
You know, just having something that's, you know, watching when you're not, I think
is brilliant.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm, I'm surprised it's only, what was it?
Uh, was it three or 5,000, uh, users, was it?
Uh, yes, we're, we, we crossed the 3,000 daily active users mark.
Um, this week.
That's, yeah, that's crazy, man.
That's crazy.
It should be bigger in my opinion.
Um, I think more people need to know about, um, you know, especially that wallet watch
stuff because, you know, that builds a layer of trust for your other products.
Um, and I think that's, uh, that can only be a positive thing.
Um, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, uh, you know, my, my first impressions as well, like I heard about it, I was like,
oh, that's really cool.
I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, check that out.
Um, you know, and I looked at it and I was like, oh, you know, these guys are professional,
you know, they, they, you know, you can see that security is something that is, you know,
the key priority here.
Um, and sort of, you know, live into a, uh, to a, you know, put your set in the standards
for yourself quite high.
Um, and I'm like, you know what?
I like these guys.
Like it looks like a solid product.
And then, you know, you, you attach your brands to other services, uh, me as a, as a,
uh, you know, a potential buyer.
Um, you know, I would, um, you know, do business with people that I trust and people that I've
used before and that, you know, do cool stuff for me, like semi notifications when, when
my wallet does stuff, um, you know, so, um, yeah, which is cool.
I like, I like, I like, I like you and I like what you've got going on.
Yeah.
So I saw, uh, one more question from, uh, crypto never sleeps where he says something
about other security tools.
I can't find it right now, but it was something about a Yubi, Yubi key.
Um, so we do recommend like two factor authenticator.
So, um, the people, the people on the WebSEE growth team, like we will go and, you know,
kind of like this Twitter space, but we've gone into communities and, and one way to kind
of talk about our product, but also just like provide value for these different communities
is to do a like wallet security, um, educational workshop.
So, you know, just something to get somebody like, even if they don't use WebSEE's products
at all, they can get there, like almost 90% of the way there of like, you know, you're,
you're pretty much set up for success.
Um, you know, ideally like with the exception of wallet watch, like WebSEE's hoping you don't
use our products.
Like we, we're hoping that you don't have to execute the panic button, use the backup
wallet.
Um, you know, I guess at some point you'll, everybody will have to use a crypto will, but
like, you know, obviously we don't want that.
So, um, you know, we will come in and just help people avoid getting into those types of
situations.
So this is stuff like, yes, using two factor authenticator, Yubi key, um, strong passwords,
like a lot of the, the hacks that happen in crypto are, can be prevented just from like
proper, um, even like web to internet security, um, safety type stuff.
So strong passwords, password manager, um, two factor authenticator, uh, reducing spam
by like looking at your settings of your different DMs.
Like that's, that's the simple thing where it's like, you know, it's a lot harder to get
phished when you can't even get a DM, um, you know, on discord or Twitter.
And now obviously that might not be practical.
So then you can kind of like reel it back a little bit, like only friends can message
you.
Um, another good tip for, you know, crypto, but it, it's still kind of web two ish is
to bookmark those most popular dApps that you use.
So like Uniswap, Etherscan, OpenSea, you know, there's a lot of, um, these hacks that
happen are, uh, you know, they use a hyperlink that it's like OpenSea with, you know, uh,
a U instead of a E or something, you know, something along those lines where it's like,
you don't even notice the site looks exactly the same, but then you'd sign that bad approval.
Um, so stuff like that, you know, there are definitely some great security, just tips
and tricks that you can use that will, you know, get you reduce the chances of you getting
hacked like tenfold.
So those are just kind of like some off the top of my head right there, but there's definitely
more out there that you can, um, you know, in, in 30 minutes you can get set up and,
and, you know, it can save you and set the foundation for, you know, the rest of the
time you're in crypto.
Yeah, that is really impressive.
That is really impressive.
And I was going to say, I was going to say someone clipped that.
Words of real wisdom there, like, you know, great solid advice.
You know, lots of people are making this transition from web two to web three, you know, um, and
all the best information that they can get the better, if that makes sense.
Um, and you know, you come across as someone that wants to educate people, um, about the
right way to do this stuff to avoid, like you say, avoid having to use your kind of products
and services, you know, having the knowledge to, to not get wrecked basically.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
Um, yeah.
I mean, cause it can, it can affect anybody.
Um, and you know, there are definitely unique aspects to web three.
Like, you know, when you're going on a website, there's no, like forgot your password kind of
thing with, with the current web three self custody solutions.
Like if you lose your seed phrase and your private key, like there's no, you know, that
that's, that's why there's so much lost Bitcoin over the years.
Like that's like 90% of the losses are, yeah, it was on a hard drive that I lost access to.
It was on a wallet that I lost.
I threw away the seed phrase and I lost access.
So, you know, there, there's definitely less margin for error, um, in web three, which
is, you know, seems backward backwards as we're like evolving from web two to web three.
Um, but it's just kind of the nature of, of how it is right now.
And there are different solutions like the social recovery, Argent.
Um, but yeah.
You know, I've heard about social recovery.
Um, I don't know much about it.
Um, could you explain it to me?
Like, cause if I can learn a little something from you there, that'd be great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So social recovery, um, you know, I, I haven't actually done it myself, um, to be honest,
but I've, you know, I've read about it.
So it would be like, you know, you go to set up a wallet.
So let's just say your ENS is, uh, the bacon sandwich dot ether, whatever it may be.
Okay.
So you like set that up and then you can sign like three people.
So it's like, uh, me, meta builders and thigh revolution.
So, you know, we're like your trusted social recoverers.
So now if something were to happen, um, all of us can go and basically like vouch that,
Hey, like this is the rightful owner to this and basically get you back access to, um, you
know, your wallet in Argent.
So, you know, that's like the social recovery.
It's like, you know, you appoint these people and then like, they should be trusted and then
they can just like agree like, Hey, this is the rightful person.
Give them back their like wallet.
No, that's, that's pretty, that's pretty crazy.
So it's kind of like a recovery by consensus kind of idea.
Yeah.
So, I mean, I mean, there is definitely like an element of trust, um, that's, you know,
in crypto, everything kind of seems to be like trustless.
Uh, but yeah, so like, I'm, I'm not an expert in social recovery.
So like if, if there was like a little off right there, but like, that is my understanding
from what I've read.
I, I personally have just managed my own, you know, seed phrase and private keys, but
I, I've always thought that it was a pretty unique solution and interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's interesting enough to hear and sort of more about what it is.
Uh, you're probably, you're probably going to send me down a rabbit hole now.
Yeah.
So, I mean, I would, I would ask, I would say start at Argent because I know that's
kind of like their unique selling proposition of like their wallet, A-R-G-E-N-T.
So they, um, that's, that's, that's a wallet provider or is that a network?
No, no, no, no.
That's, that's a wallet provider.
It'll still be like Ethereum wallets.
Uh, okay.
Yep.
That's really cool.
Yeah.
That is really cool.
Um, you know, because, um, you know, because I think, you know, that's affected a lot of
people, you know, having, you know, forgetting seed phrases or, you know, having misplaced
where you've, where you've kept that information safe.
I think it's a, a great, a really, really important feature to have because, you know, you can keep
something safe for years and then something could happen.
And if you've got a trusted circle of people that, you know, can hold that information
or, or, or be those people that can help you recover that, you know, again, another game
changer, you know, and, and, and an amazing service, I think, because like you said, you
know, it's sort of being a transition from web two to web three, there are, there are certain
things in this industry that happened that, you know, shouldn't really, if it isn't, if
it is to evolve from the systems that we're used to now to, to, to, to progress into the
web three sector.
So I think that's a great feature.
Yep.
Yeah.
And, you know, so you can really personalize it to just like your level of like usability,
security.
Um, there's definitely different levels of like, you know, in my opinion, it's like, there's
not just advice that applies to everyone when it comes to like getting a wallet set up.
Like, it doesn't make sense to tell the guy with $50 to go set up a multi-sig wallet.
It's just, you know, it doesn't make any sense.
Like that's literally a smart contract wallet that you have to pay gas to set up in the first
place.
Like you would, you would have no money left.
Um, but like, as you, you know, continue to build your wealth and hit these different
levels, like, you know, there are things like, you know, you should just kind of like
tailor your risk by start like getting more wallets, like separating your wealth into
different wallets.
Now, you know, there's not that singular point of failure.
It's like, you know, I did everything I could, but all of my wealth was on just one
wallet.
Like that is a risky in itself.
So, you know, kind of as you continue to grow, like there are different, um, things you
can do to kind of just like reduce that, your risk exposure.
So whether it be Argent, whether it be Gnosis, um, you know, whatever it may be, like, you
know, figure out what, what works for you.
Um, but yeah, there's a lot of cool tools out there.
Um, and you know, we, we, we obviously don't really think we're at like competition with
everybody.
Like we, um, you know, like all these different tools, we will 100% endorse them and, and,
you know, say what we think about them and encourage them as well.
So, yeah, no, that's brilliant.
And, and how many tools do you guys have?
Do you just focus on the, um, the three, the three things that you've mentioned earlier?
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
So those, those are kind of like the three different, um, categories, I guess.
So like a score for the assess and wallet watch for the monitor and then the act, um,
you know, that's really three tools.
I didn't really go crazy on the, uh, backup wallet, but you know, the panic button in case
something happens, the crypto in case you die.
And then the backup wallet, um, you know, just like a very, very quick brief overview.
That is kind of what we were just saying.
Like if you lost access to your seed phrase, uh, your private key, you basically lost, lost
access to your wallet.
Um, that backup wallet that you set up.
So again, ideally this is like a cold storage vault ledger wallet is actually able to come
in and execute the smart contract, um, in a similar fashion as the panic button.
So the panic button gets executed by that main wallet.
Um, but the backup wallet can execute a similar function that will pull all of those protected
assets into that safe backup wallet.
Um, so, you know, we've had people like, you know, uh, I don't, I, I don't advise this,
but they just recorded their seed phrase on a piece of paper.
Um, they live down in new Orleans, their basement flooded that they couldn't see their seed phrase
anymore, but they were able to just come in, execute the smart contract and pull those
assets, um, into it because they, they literally lost access.
They lost, or they, they also lost access to their computer.
So computer gone, seed phrase gone.
They're like, Oh my God, my wallet's gone.
But then the backup wallet, which was stored at a different physical location, was able to
connect, execute it, get the assets.
That is incredible.
That is incredible.
And it's the same process.
It's the pre-approvals.
Um, so, you know, it's, it's basically just executing the, the, the panic button from
a different wallet that you also control.
So it's your backup wallet.
It's, it's your back door.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Um, I thought actually it might be a good opportunity for Rev, um, to tell you guys about, um, the
community communities and kind of who we are and what we're about.
Um, obviously you can see there's a bunch of pluses in the room.
Um, and you know, Rev is, uh, you know, the, the guy to definitely tell you about the plus
and what we're up to.
Yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So, um, the community communities is exactly that.
It's a community of communities from people right across the web free space, which is why,
um, we were really excited about you guys, uh, coming on actually website because, you
know, when looking at what you guys provide, I just think it's absolutely essential.
So that people at least know about it, you know, if not utilize those services or consider
utilizing those services for all of the, all of the reasons that they exist.
Um, and the plus basically represents, um, everything that we're about, which is positivity,
you know, adding value, um, being in addition and, uh, web three.
And it's a way that we can sort of represent each other without having to sacrifice your
own identities.
So you don't have to sacrifice your name or your profile picture, but, you know, we stand
together as a multitude of communities to try and help educate each other, support each
other and, you know, and, and make people aware of features such as what you guys provide
so that, you know, people can, you know, learn different ways in, in which to keep their assets
safe, to learn about web three in general.
And we want to work together to help make sure, you know, web three still exists in the
future so that we can all continue to enjoy building on it, investing in it, and just being
around it in general.
Um, so yeah, that's what the community communities is and that's what the plus represents.
Yeah.
That's, that's an awesome mission.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah.
It's been really enjoyable.
You know, that's the whole point of web three is, you know, collaboration and community
and having, having the ability to, you know, find different products, services and people
and communities that can help each other in these ways.
So, you know, what you guys do sound amazing and, you know, it's something I'm definitely
going to be utilizing myself personally.
And I'm, I'm sure everyone enjoyed listening and, and learned about what you guys do because,
you know, having those features in place, especially when you're getting involved in an industry
so, so early, I think is definitely something that people should be, um, considering for
sure.
And, uh, very shortly, we're going to be, um, moving over to, uh, Mike Smart from MetaBuilders.
So WebEasy, is there anything else that you want to, um, talk about before we do that?
Nope.
Um, I, I do have to say, I, I will have to go here.
I, I just blocked it off till five and I got to go to a dinner now for, for Mother's
Day, but, you know, it was, it was great being on here, um, you know, talking about
WebEasy and getting to know you guys better.
So, you know, looking forward to continuing to work in the future and, and, you know, following
your, your growth as well with the community and communities.
Yeah, no, thank you.
I appreciate it.
Um, we'll be out, the space will be recorded.
So if you do want to listen back and catch up on anything that you did miss, then, then you
will have the ability to do that and thank you for coming on.
We really do appreciate it and, you know, look forward to seeing where you guys go with
this as well.
And, you know, we hope you continue with the success of, you know, getting more users on
board because it sounds like you guys are growing at a really fast rate.
So congratulations on that.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
And, uh, you know, you guys have a great rest of the space and I'll definitely check it
out.
The recording.
Yeah.
Brilliant.
Yeah.
Thank you, buddy.
Yeah.
You're always welcome back, bro.
You're always welcome back.
Sounds good.
Yeah, definitely.
Thank you very much.
All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Mike Smart from MetaBuilders.
Mike, how are we doing, my friend?
Oh, I'm all right.
A little bummed out that he's had to leave because, you know, it would have been nice to
have a conversation about web, you know, security, web3 security, because that's part of what
we do.
Uh, but maybe next time.
Yeah.
No, anyway, I wanted to listen into that conversation.
Yeah, me too.
Provide me an opportunity to keep it short and sweet.
But, uh, um, yeah.
Anyways, my name is Mike Smart, uh, the founder of MetaBuilders and Smart Digital Payments.
We provide, uh, turnkey solutions for businesses and brands who want to enter web3.
With that, we have professional artists, animators, marketers, uh, web2 and web3 developers, front
end and back end.
Uh, we've got multiple partnerships with various businesses that fill in the gaps on things that
we can't, uh, or have yet to develop.
For instance, Crypto Magazine is part of our marketing arm where they're in, uh, 19 countries
all across the globe in, uh, airports and the top 100 hotels.
So, essentially, we just bridge the gap between web2 and web3 in traditional businesses, and
what we're doing is building a decentralized infrastructure so that people can conduct business
with anonymous individuals in a way that's trustless and transparent.
That's essentially the...
Yeah, nice.
Impressive, to say the least.
Yeah.
Yeah, so, um, the, uh, another part that makes it trustless, are you able to just go into
a bit of, a bit of depth on that, on, on, in regards of how it, how it's trustless?
Yeah, basically, uh, we have a bounty board through, uh, DAO tooling called dwork.xyz, and with
that, we're able to utilize various different currencies as payment.
And the whole business workings, um, like, the communication between the freelancers and
the, and meta builders, and the communication between meta builders and the client are all
visible and then stored and delivered at the end of each project via an NFT on Polygon so
that, you know, it's all clear who did the task, who set the task, who verified the work,
and who paid it, and what contracts paid it.
And it's all done through, uh, multi-sig, Gnosis, that was mentioned earlier, um, and all
ran by a DAO, which essentially the DAO, you know, we want the DAO to consist of everybody
doing business in the, the Web3 space.
That way we can maintain that level of transparency all the way through and add value to certain
aspects of security that Webacy and, you know, companies like that don't offer.
You know, it's like they had, they have a great tool and mechanism for personal wallets and
things of that sort.
But I think one of the biggest risks in this industry is the, the workforce, the people
who are doing the jobs that are doing the tasks, those are usually the, the fraudulent
actors who are trying to take advantage of people or situations.
And, and if you can just prove that these people are reasonable actors, you know, and working
in good faith through a platform like MetaBuilders, who are already a trusted network of Web3 OGs
and people who know what a scam looks like and know what a reasonable business looks like.
You know, we have so many different layers of security there, but that added layer of blockchain
security and transparency really provides anonymous individuals, one, an opportunity to find work
for legitimate businesses and projects, but two, it provides traditional businesses, industry
style businesses, the security to be able to utilize these anonymous individuals, which some
of them are highly skilled and just are trying to, you know, hide from their government because
they're not trying to, you know, get killed for participating in the metaverse or whatever,
you know, and that's, there's a real threats in certain areas and being anonymous is important
to people who have those type of risks and they should be able to continue to be anonymous,
but also be able to build their, their resume in a way that doesn't need their social security
card to be able to verify who they are, you know?
Yeah. And I'm really glad you said that actually, because, you know, you were absolutely right
in that in regards of, you know, the people, it's the people that are doing that, you know,
at the back end that people worry about because it's, you know, those individuals that have
the know-how and the ability to do so. So it's a really, really great shout that you mentioned
yeah. And it also, uh, it can also be a process of kind of weeding out, um, uh, weeding out
weaker, weaker players. So like if you've got, um, people that come highly rated, then you
can verify that their work is of a high standard where you can see the history of someone else's
work that may be considered subpar by some, um, you know, it gives people an opportunity
to basically pick the best, the best people to, to work with. Is that kind of how it works?
Yeah, exactly. So that like later down the road, as we develop, as we, you know, grow this
thing, it's going to have a multitude of different functions that allow people to like streamline
the, the project building process and there will be layers and levels to participants like
the OGs, uh, you know, we're trying to make it fun too, right? For the future. And it's
all like this big game. That's why the meta game, uh, you know, it's like, so there will
be token gating NFT wearables and things of that sort that allow people to get a job board
in the metaverse that other people can't even have access to, you know, and these will be
those higher level jobs that, that we won't be sending out bounties for to the general
public. And then there will be other level projects. Like let's say there's some and on
group of NFT guys who just want, you know, to promote this art project and they're not
really trying to develop anything major. And we don't want to really put our name on it
as meta builders, but we can still put the tasks and the bounties up for the general public
to be able to do that. Um, and in a transparent way to say like, Hey, look, this is this type
of package, trust it as much as you can, because it's in this realm of, of activities, you know?
Yeah. Cause I kind of, I kind of feel like there's a lot of really good ideas that don't get
acted upon because they don't really know sort of how to do it, especially when it comes
to business, because business are kind of, kind of clueless when it comes to Web3. Um,
so you, you know, you can provide like a, just a full ecosystem to build something out.
Right. And it also helps us or it helps everyone else verify us because like, there are some
projects that we bang out right away, you know, and like, for example, our articles, when we set
a bounty for, uh, through Pagedow and we get somebody to write a Web3 article for us, we can
get those in and out within days. No problem. Just like written, paid, written, paid, but some of the
projects take a little bit longer. And, you know, so you'll start seeing where meta builders
thrives and where we struggle and, you know, the public can then jump in and see the inner
workings of a business and where the pain points are. And then anonymous or not, not, they don't
have to be anonymous, but, you know, freelancing individuals can come in, fill the gap, you know?
I just think it provides opportunities for people to jump into leadership that normally wouldn't
because there's no barriers to, to the leadership. You, if you want to be a leader, you're more than
welcome to be a leader, step up and do the most, you'll get the most, you know, and it'll be
publicly obvious that you're doing so. Yeah, that's, that's, that's really cool. Um,
that, you know, the fact that you're kind of looking out for, for the, for the guys that
can't operate in old school ways. Um, you know, like you said, there could be numerous different
reasons as to why someone wants to remain anonymous. It doesn't mean that they're not awesome
at what they do. Yeah. Or an honest person, right? Cause some people are not anonymous
because they're trying to do something fraudulent. They're anonymous out of self protection.
You know, it's like even might be something as simple as their significant other, uh, doesn't
know about their second life in the metaverse and they want to keep it a secret because they're
a cool guy or something, you know, it's like, it doesn't matter what it is. It's just, there
should be a place where anonymous individuals can, can conduct business without, you know,
but, but there still needs to be that layer of security. You can't just, cause right now
we have the wild West where anybody and everybody can just rip you off and then just disappear.
But if, if we only do business with people who have the verified NFTs that we've done business
before, or, and if they haven't earned that NFT, they go through a process to verify their
capabilities and, and get roles through metagame, you know, now you have multiple levels of,
um, security there. Yeah. Cause, um, at first, you know, when I first got into the space and
started understanding it, that I was always confused as to why people would want to remain
anonymous if they had nothing to hide, but there's actually so many reasons why that could
be important, you know, you know, even down to people having a huge reputation that could
put people at risk. Because if someone knew that that person with such reputation, you
know, could come with a huge following and, you know, what they're doing would get a lot
of attention and what the building, you know, people don't want any attention to, you know,
just, just down to things like that. So I think that it's really amazing. And also, you
know, the things that people are actually working on as well, you know, certain technologies put
people's lives at risk just because of what it is that people, what people are creating can do,
you know, especially with the way that the world's changing from where it's going to where it's been
to where it's going, you know, that does, um, factor a lot of risk to individuals. So I think
it's a really, a brilliant feature, but to have that level of security in place in between as well,
for like you said, for, for still keeping people safe on the other end, I just think it's
genius in my opinion. Uh, Wolfpack's got a question and he's got his hand up. How are we
doing, Wolf?
Hey, what's up? I was just going to tell you, I always used to be on the side of things saying,
well, you can always just dox yourself, just dox yourself, right? And I, and I just used to
always think that, well, and I was like, no, there's no reason. And then I met a lady,
um, and her son was like in the, some kind of like drug syndicate syndicate. Right. And they
had the whole hip family had gone into, um, like, uh, what is it? Witness protection. Yeah.
You know, and I hadn't, and I was like, oh, wow. I never thought about that. And she shouldn't
be like excluded from, you know, being able to participate. And then I started thinking after
that, I started thinking, no, there's like a lot of, um, reasons. Maybe, uh, you have a crazy ex
boyfriend or girlfriend, you know, I mean, there's, there could be a dozen reasons, but like you said,
with something like what you're talking about, you still have, um, that layer of protection there.
You're just not, you know, putting yourself out there, which is, I think it's fair.
Yeah. Like instead of Maria, you're Bobo 42, you know what I mean? Like, and that's totally fine.
Yeah. No, I mean, and you know, like you said, there's, and there's, you know, just listening
to this, I didn't think of any of that other stuff. And sometimes, like I said, you have to
look at other points of view, but you know, like you said, what if you're a, you know, some guy high
up in a banking industry and they don't want you connected with, you know, a small project that
you're doing, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to do it. You know, you should be able to
still do it. Just kind of stay anonymous, but keep it to the point where they can, there's ways of
proving it, you know? Right. And that is another solid point, right? Is that this community of
communities is that platform where people, you know, can come, like there's so many conflicting
ideologies and views in this world in general, and people don't get along because of dumb shit
all the time. And so if you can provide a platform where everybody has a voice and is allowed to speak
on topics without the judgment and, you know, even without the backlash and the death threats and
all these added things that shouldn't exist in communication, you know, especially when it
comes to important issues, like community of communities, yes, we have a direction and we have
amount of, like, we have a specific type of individual that we vibe with, but that doesn't
mean that we're going to not allow somebody, a platform to speak the conflicting ideologies because
that is precisely how we, you know, get to the solution to these core issues. And with these
type of platforms that provide this level of anonymity and security for anonymous individuals,
we can have these hard conversations without the risk that is involved in human, you know?
Well, I thought it was, I mean, even yesterday, right? I came on here and they were talking about
PulseChain and I had a point of view that I don't, I'm not a big fan of PulseChain because
of, you know, the, I was saying how you have, it doubles the, basically the NFTs that you have,
but then I, I listened, we sat here and talked and then I, I kind of changed my mind and said,
well, what if you could then turn off your Ethereum NFT, but turn on your PulseChain
NFT and be able to move through the, you know, web three space without way less cost, right?
And it's like, I would have never come up to that conclusion without talking with a good
group of people that, where you can get that different point of view, you know, like, and
I said it yesterday, you know, if, if, if you thought everything you did was right, you'd
go, you'd go in the corner and talk to yourself, you know, but you, you're not going to do that
because you want to learn different points of view.
And I just thought it was funny that I literally proved myself wrong, um, talking on the space.
And I was like, wow, that's kind of interesting.
You know, I think it's just a case of just having better information about what it was and
how it functions, uh, because then the, you know, the better understanding you have of
something, the better judgment you can give it.
Oh, and do you see, you see what I got in my name now?
Yeah, I see that.
Top, top man.
Yeah.
So yeah, did you, did you have any questions for MetBuilders?
Well, I was just, I, no, I just wanted to say, I really like, um, his presentation and,
uh, you know, I was listening to what he was saying and I, I think it's good to have another
option other than docs.
Like I said, I don't, for me, I don't have any, I don't have another option than to be
docs because with the dog rescue, I have to be in person anyway, because I'm taking pictures
with the dogs and I'm, you know, and I'm doing that.
So I'm docs, but that doesn't mean that there's not a good, um, reason for there to be, uh,
you know, good, like people out here doing it.
And I love that idea.
The way that you have that is not only because now knowing what the NFT for me, that shows
that's better than just somebody saying, Oh, well they, we have their KYC because how do
I know you have their KYC?
Right.
If you have that, like you were talking about, you have that proof kind of behind that, you
know?
So, yeah.
And it's not KYC too.
So that like, because the anonymous individuals are for me equally as important to protect
as the businesses who want the information about the anonymous individual.
Yeah.
You know?
And so for me, I'm, that's why I came into this industry, you know, well, I mean, in the
way that I, I started guiding meta builders is to support the service industry because
throughout the process of building meta builders, I got close with a lot of people in the industry
and it was important to me that they were safe and I was safe and that people that I
invited into this industry are safe.
And I've, I've invited people into web three that have gotten taken advantage of and it
had ruined friendships.
And, you know, it's like, those are huge pain points in my life that have motivated me
to want to provide this level of security because it should be safe.
You know?
You should be able to come into this fun environment in a way that is like, you know, you don't
have to look out for sharp glass while you're frolicking.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Makes perfect sense.
Well, um, that's what I was just going to say.
Like the funny thing is you said that, but there's things that I've changed my approach
Um, I introduced people to a project that I thought was great and I don't know why, because
I'm always so like, um, very careful about a project, but for some reason, this just project
just spoke to me and I just thought it was awesome.
And then it ended up, it's very strange.
He didn't rug, but they, they ended up launching it 20 cents cheaper than they said they were
going to and all this stuff.
And, and I, and I've got a couple of people that I had told to get into the project and
I know they're like, Oh no, it's not.
It's okay.
And I know that the relationship is different now.
And so I have changed.
Like I will never, ever, ever recommend a presale to anybody again, no matter how great I feel
about it, uh, because it, and then because, uh, that happened to me, you know what I'm saying?
And, and so you don't realize, um, you know, like you said, and, and, and this is with safety.
I mean, and this is with anything in the web three space or, you know, anything with anything
really like, you, you know, you're, you're, you're only as good as your word.
Right.
And so, you know, you gotta, you know, kind of cherish that.
And, uh, I was, I recommended like three people to get into this project and it still has
not come back yet and it's just a bad thing.
So yeah, I completely, I completely relate to you there.
Right.
And so that's the whole point is that meta builders can be a legitimate business that can accept
funds in ways that is a distributed, you know, fair, equitable distribution of funds and also
be that, you know, suable entities so that if something does happen with these anonymous
individuals that the businesses can recoup on their losses and, you know, it also provides
an entity that is, is like a tax shelter for the gains and, and losses for the crypto, instead
of being a person making income, you know, now you're talking about business income and
it just all around provides more security for everyone involved.
So what I think about myself being doxed, uh, that also shows everybody like, Hey, now
this is, you can call the real guy that founded this whole thing and see his face.
You know, my name is Mike smart.
That's my real name.
Well, you know, the, the thing like I was going to say too, is that, um, there's a lot of people
with a lot of information that can help you, right?
Like you were saying about how you can use this as a business entity instead of, you know,
with the gains and everything.
So you not only you learn how to be safer, but you, you also gain those kind of, um, benefits,
you know what I mean?
Without even realizing.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
And Mike, um, do you want to just go into a bit more detail as well about, you know,
cause what I think is really brilliant about MetaBuilders is like you were mentioning before,
you know, that you guys provide all web three services and there's quite a few people in
the industry that can provide services, but, you know, as an individual entity on their
own, you know, they're not, they're not, they may not find the amount of work that they
need to, to make that as a career path.
So I think, you know, protecting the services that people will require and are going to
require and also giving people a place to, to find that work.
I just think it's a really, really essential part of, of, of what you guys are doing, because
I think that that is what's going to keep this industry growing is people being able
to, you know, find a home, if you will, to, to, to find the work and for people to go
to, to find the services that they need.
You know, so I think being a, a web three service provider, I think is a really important
step in, um, the growth of web three.
Well, and what's a huge pain point that I have as the founder of meta builders is that
it's not like a traditional business in a sense to where I have employees that are working
for me and stuff like that.
And it's, we're building the infrastructure to empower all web three freelancers, to be
able to conduct business in this transparent way.
So with that, we want, you know, ideally everyone to be using it, just like it would be beneficial
for everyone to be using something like the wallet watch.
You know, it's part of the infrastructure that adds security for the entire industry.
And with that, you know, our plans to utilize the DAOs and the tokens within all of our partner
DAOs to be able to pay people in their desired tokens and also earn into governance with these
different DAOs.
So if you're, if you come into meta builders, you can go on the bounty board and one of our
partner bounty boards page DAO, and you can write an article.
Like there's a bounty up there that says fashion, web three fashion industry.
You know, someone goes up there and they get the bounty.
They, they write the article, they send it in, and then they make page and page token.
It acts as a currency and as governance.
So now you are part of the governance of a DAO just by working your way into it.
And you can do that with the entire industry and every partner of every different type of serve,
you know, web three service you can imagine.
You can come in as a 3D developer, do the same thing with the seed token and metagame.
You come in as a game developer with the one token and the one game initiative.
You know, it's, it's all just a beautiful mechanism that empowers DAOs.
And freelancers.
Yeah, and, and, and, and, you know, say, you know, people that purchase your guy's services,
it, it really supports the entire infrastructure as well, doesn't it?
You know, because MetaBuilders, personally, from, from what I've learned about it really supports
web three and keeps it web three in the way that is really going to help completely build
this entire infrastructure.
And I think that it's an, it's an amazing ecosystem that you've built.
And I think it's, you know, an absolute force to be reckoned with, because that's what makes
such a great connection between the community communities and MetaBuilders is the fact that
you guys are so community driven.
And, you know, you've, you've, you've designed this ecosystem to really support the people
that are building everything in web three.
So massive, you know, massive respect for that.
I appreciate it.
And I want to also give a shout out to people like Musashi, who is one of the earlier,
I guess, adopters of MetaBuilders.
He has, he has had similar ideas in the past.
And, you know, it's just, it's really difficult to build this type of stuff, especially when
your ideas are so vast and like grandiose, like ours are.
But, you know, so through the process of learning and meeting some of these people, I've met more
and more people who are already building things that I had envisioned, you know, and that's
why I try to explain this, like, it's not, nobody here has any unique ideas, right?
It's all a bunch of ideas floating around in the wind.
And some of us are catching the ideas in the wind.
I happened to catch the idea of, you know, decentralization because it was just in the
wind and I took full advantage of it and realized that my place was in this part of
it, you know, the decentralization aspect of the Web3 service industry, because that's
where I'm from is traditional, like construction and service industry.
And so I just, I've owned my own construction company.
I've just done a lot of this type of stuff.
So just bridging that into this type of environment was a no brainer.
Yeah, but super important as well, because, you know, from the point that I mentioned earlier
that I personally can't stress enough how important it is to, to have that, because, you know,
if people want to utilize the services that you guys provide, or actually provide those
services themselves as an individual entity, or one of the services that you mentioned
earlier, like where, where would people go, you know, where can people find trusted people
in an ecosystem? And, you know, you guys provide all of that. And I just think that that's
absolutely mind blowing. And there's so much within your ecosystem. And so much that you
guys have been doing for so long as well. You know, I mean, you guys have been to, you
know, loads of events, you know, like users at the Miami event as well, weren't you?
Yeah, we've sponsored South by Southwest. I've sponsored and hosted the Crypto Jazz Festival
in 2021. I've been to Miami twice, once with my kids, which was a mistake. And then again
by myself, which wasn't any more fun. But yeah, no, we've done lots of events. And we continue
to tour as Meta Jacks. And currently we're touring with Arturo Sandoval, who just was
nominated for a Grammy for our NFT album that we launched for him and produced.
Now that is remarkable. Because that is one very successful individual. I think the last
time I checked, it personally won, I don't know if it was 12 or 15 Grammy Awards.
You know, the man is super successful. So that's a, that's quite an achievement.
Yeah, we're basically trying to build into every part of the industry because we, you know,
being that infrastructure, we need to cover every angle. So we've got Meta Jacks for musicians.
We've got Meta Game for developers. We've got Meta Builders for business type and like direct
to consumer, you know, like B2B type relationships. Token Smart's more for like the, the live metaverse
events. You know, with, with our network, we have everything Web3. And if we can just have
one solid place where everyone can go and conduct the business, if you want to do, if you want to
throw a show over at Token Smart, if you want to pay a freelancer or you want to pay the platform,
you can do it in a trusted or a trustless way through the Meta Builders ecosystem. You know,
it's not like we're skimming as a business, we're skimming any money through the deals. It's that it,
it's like a Craigslist for Web3 services. Basically, you know, like anyone can go on the bounty board and say,
boom, we did this through the Meta Builders ecosystem. We're token gated based on our
participation in this ecosystem. And this is how I prefer to do my business because I know that it's
safe, like a Fiverr or a Craigslist or something like that, where it's autonomous and, and decentralized
and inevitably will be like the Trapper Keeper, just absorb all things Web3.
Yeah. And you've done an incredible job of that as well, because, you know, when I first
started learning about Meta Builders, you know, I thought I'd started to get a grasp of it,
but the deeper I looked, the more, the more that I saw. And, you know, these communities
aren't small communities either, you know, like Token Smart of, you know, the, the about
to reach around, you know, 30,000 members in the Discord alone. And these are people that
have been in, in Web3 since the beginning. You know, these guys, you know, built the foundations
that many of these NFT projects in the community, you know, are building on top of. And, you know,
to have people like that within your ecosystem is absolutely paramount for, for having, you
know, that understanding and that, and that knowledge and experience to, to, to continue
building the industry out in general.
Right. And so, and the idea is that each of these entities, which they have bought into
the DAO of Meta Builders, everyone just bought in, I think it was a 0.1 ETH or something buy
in. And that got us our 20 original members. And then as we scale this, we will be set, you
know, we'll sell a package and Meta Builders will accept the funds. And then whoever is going
to be involved, like if it's Macy's and they want to throw another parade, but this time
have a successful experience, you know, they can hire us and then we will hire out all of
our partners to execute on these tasks through this mechanism. You know, that way it can be
done in a trustless way and, you know, maintain that customer relationship.
Yeah. So, you know, in, in, just on a, just to make it more understandable on regards of
like what you guys do, like what other, what sort of services do you guys provide?
Well, we build dApps, smart contracts, build, you know, like websites, traditional, you know,
web two and web three websites, which is basically the dApp. We build metaverses. We can build
in other people's metaverses as well, or virtual environments. We can build an augmented reality
reality as well. Um, and we do marketing, uh, community management, NFT curation. We, we do
any type of art curation. We have professional artists all the way to photorealistic quality
art to pixelated crap, you know, like we've got them all. And, uh, yeah, we pretty much
do everything. We even do agent services. We'll send people to host booths in other parts of
the country. And yeah, you name it any web three marketing, uh, yeah, no, that is incredible.
Um, and I was just looking at one of the, uh, partnerships again, um, cause I was blown
away by NFT, the movie. Um, what can you say about that? Like who are they and what do
they do?
So NFT, the movie was led by Jeff Crane and a few friends of mine, Heidi and Josh. Uh, but
essentially it's a living documentary that documents all things, NFT and web three.
And they've traveled all over the world from Costa Rica to Utah, you know, like United States
all over the place, uh, East coast and West coast filming these things. And I've been along
for the ride for the majority of the time. I mean, since 2021, uh, and traveled all over
with them filming different things, we basically use them for a marketing arm for our clients.
So it's like, Hey, if you want to get into an NFT, the movie living documentary where hundreds
of projects have showcased, you know, their work and it's pretty sweet. And they've actually
moved on, uh, to add more value to their entertainment company through AI businesses and things of that
sort. So I'm really excited to see what they do in the future.
Yeah, that is pretty incredible.
Yeah.
I rode around with Jeff Crane and the NFT, the movie mobile out in Miami and we went to Art
Basil and there was tons of people just, I mean, it was, the car wasn't like a Ferrari
or anything. It was just decked out in this NFT, the movie, uh, stickers and stuff.
So everyone just loved it. And there was people taking pictures and laying on top of the car,
like celebrity style dressed individuals, just all glammed up and they were just loving it.
It was such a fun time. Just rolling around and tropical environment. Just everyone's staring
and honking on the freeway. Pretty quality stuff.
Yeah. Cause I mean, you know, that was one of the things that really took me, um, that really,
that I was really hyped about around meta builders is that a lot of the things that people,
you know, are just starting to, you know, get into and start building. Now you guys have been
a part of them building since, you know, back in 2021, you know, like these events that is,
you know, you've been in events in 2021. Um, I mean, you know, you, you've also created,
you know, your own NFT project as well. Um, I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about
that, you know, the SDP owls.
Yeah, that's, that's actually how this whole thing started because
after I lost a bunch of money trading, leverage trading,
I wanted to provide value to the ecosystem. And I thought point of sale made the most sense.
So I started smart digital payments. My name is Mike smart. So smart digital payments.
I didn't want it to be like crypto or something or whatever. And I realized quickly that I did
not enjoy the payments industry as much as I thought I would. And so I wanted a different
angle. I didn't want to bug people or telemarket or whatever. So I, I got into NFTs and created an
NFT project called SDP owls, which is basically with smart digital payments owls. And, uh, just went
buck wild with that. And I started learning about the metaverse and started building in Minecraft and
building my presence there and focusing on the brand aspect of the owls themselves.
Because, you know, I figured we could get them as collectibles and, you know, build that brand and
sell the merch and have people automatically love the brand and then be attracted into learning more
about cryptocurrencies through these types of, you know, mechanisms back before NFTs were
a thing. Like people were just making them people like it was some of the dumbest stuff. But
uh, but then the, the apes came out and all this craze floor prices and Gary V vibes. And then all of a
sudden the whole vision was lost. You know, now my 30 cent NFTs weren't so valuable to the marketplace.
Cause there was million dollar NFTs being sold on ETH. They, uh, anyways, the SDP owls has trend.
They've been in movies games, uh, and a cartoon that is basically an African-American he-man
that speaks positive messages to the youth of today. Um, that is not so generically one demographic.
Um, and, uh, yeah, so SDP is a supportive character in that. And we have book, me and my daughters,
um, have written a book series to help support the NFTs as well. So they're everywhere. And SDP owls and
meta builders, uh, are basically combining as one thing to where we provide point of sale devices to
empower businesses and merchants to accept cryptocurrencies, as well as building dApps
and smart contracts to empower their online presence and build 3d environments in like the
metaverse with an added money layer for people to be able to transact these NFTs and, and get real
world objects in return via these smart contracts within the NFTs on similar platforms like Amazon,
but through some of our partners.
Yeah. Cause I mean, I'm, I've, I've seen, you know, many metaverses that you guys have got a presence
in. And I mean, for example, what, what, what you guys had built over in, in Minecraft, for example,
was absolutely mind blowing. Like I actually could not believe my eyes when I saw the,
the infrastructures that you guys have built. It must've taken hours to build, to build that.
I had a team of people building in Minecraft at the rate of $2,000 per month. And these dudes were
working around the clock. Like we had a whole operation going where people were mining, like
chopping down trees and collecting wood and all this other stuff so that we can have the builders
building. We had a security team. It was ridiculous just to build the brand. Cause like people don't
understand the, the power in being able to monetize
like real world objects within a virtual environment.
You know, like these, you can turn Minecraft into a three dimensional website where you can put QR
codes on the walls with links to your website or links to your NFT project. And now people are buying
NFTs in the metaverse that they can, I mean, it doesn't have to be the metaverse. It can just be
Minecraft. Like I said, you know, it just changes the game. And so now if you, if you have a huge
presence in a server that people can just randomly stop upon and see some dope pictures of some shiny
owls and, and that leads them down a rabbit hole of things that they can then become obsessed with,
like consumable items, I guess, for lack of better terms, then now you have a brand that is deeply rooted
within, you know, the future with products and services that are tied into sovereignty and, and
decentralization and positive thinking. And now you have, you know, fully integrated a new
way. You know what I mean? Like, and a way that can't be taken down or silenced.
Yeah. Cause that was one of the first things that really took me about
you was, as I got to know you was your, was your level of understanding and your experience was,
was second to none. And the, the, you know, the way that you understood branding and, and how it
worked and how best to utilize it and, you know, how best to benefit from those layers that you guys
implement completely blew me away because, you know, you guys look at things from angles that
most people don't even think about or would even consider an angle at all. So I was completely
blown away by your, your guys level of understanding in regards to branding and,
you know, all the experience that you guys bring to the table in regards of how you can really
completely change the dynamics of, of environments that you wouldn't even think are even monetizable.
really impressive. Thank you. Well, and that's how we can, you know, start utilizing these different
technologies, like over the reality, for example, OVR. You can add certain three-dimensional type,
I guess, holograms, for example, to your books and enhance that reader experience. Like,
Lost Children of Andromeda has done, where you could just scan it and now you have a whole
scene of that chapter playing out in augmented reality right before you.
It's funny you say, because that's actually quite similar to something that Sarah Mayne did.
She's out in the audience there. It was like a, like a postcard and you could load that up
and the postcard comes in life. It's, it's really cool.
Yeah. Now these things are amazing. Like what people can do nowadays to enhance what already
exists is insane. So if you can create these little digital collectibles that you can scatter
throughout the real world and in like these virtual environments with augmented reality and whatnot,
and then have these purchasable digital representations of real world items right there in front of you,
just like if you were on your VR at home interacting with an object in the game,
it's the same type of functionality. But when you interact with that object, there's a real world
smart contract behind there that's purchasing items and sending and delivering items. So now you can
literally just pop up an augmented reality store in front of you like, oh, I want to hit the 7-Eleven.
Boom. Pop up a 7-Eleven in your house, grab some stuff. Oh, it's, it's basically the same as going to
Grubhub, but you don't have to do it in a boring way.
Yeah. And that is incredible. And, and making, you know, you know, like for example, you know,
like what, what you guys do with, um, metagame and sort of gamifying these experiences and, and,
and making them earnable opportunities as well. I just think that the way that, you know, there's
just so many layers within all of this that really bring it all to, to meaning and life and purpose.
I just think it's phenomenal. And it absolutely blows me aware that you guys have been doing this for
so long. And it's, it, it honestly throws me as to how, how you guys haven't been seen as much as
you should have been in my opinion.
Well, you got to think about the flashiness or the lack thereof, you know, I intentionally don't
do things that other people are doing because I'm like a grumpy old man. I'm just like, ugh,
like these PFPs are dumb, you know, and I get it and I buy them. I'm a consumer of them, but I don't,
I can't stand behind them as a product, you know? So what I'm trying to, to create is a safe environment
for people to be able to create their PFPs or purchase or participate in these projects,
mind all the P words, uh, you know, and I'd be able to continue this goofiness without all the risk.
Because it's fun. I love it. Like it's goofy, but it needs to be safer.
Yeah, no, I agree. And, and I, and when I thought that, you know, the PFP side of NFTs,
let's say, I thought that's all that the NFT space was. I didn't realize just how, how deep it went and how
much utility was actually in that technology until, you know, I met you and I started speaking to you
and, you know, learning about your ecosystem and it absolutely blew me away. And it's just something
I think has to be protected and at least given the enough respect for people to just at least just
look at it, you know, just look into, into this ecosystem and look at what you guys are about and
what you do, because it deserves at least that, you know, what just going through, you know,
for all your socials, for example, you know, going through your social media, just seeing where you
guys have been and what you've done and the people you've interacted with, the people that you've
partnered with and all the things you've managed to achieve. And even looking back at the, you know,
the stuff you guys have been building years ago, you know, the quality is above and beyond some of
the stuff I've seen even being built recently with better technologies, shall we say, or,
you know, or easier infrastructures. It completely blows me away that
the quality that you guys have been creating for years, it's almost been done elsewhere,
but downgraded, you know, if I've explained that right.
Yeah, basically, the industry is promoting the Ikea of what we have done.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But years later, and everyone's aware by it.
We sponsored the NFT NYC in 2021, as MetaJax did. And we played on the rooftop
of the event at NFT NYC. And the crew that did so ended up moving on to, like I said,
be nominated for a Grammy for the first, I believe it was the first NFT to be nominated
for a Grammy, but I could be, or the music NFT to be nominated for a Grammy, but I could be wrong.
But yeah, so like we've done some of these things, but we're not out there marketing it
because we're not, you know, we're not backed by these corporations. And the fact that we're trying
to decentralize things isn't attractive to VCs. So you can't come in and just buy a chunk of what
we're doing. You have to, if you're going to buy a chunk, it's going to be in a decentralized way
to where a community gets to vote on the funds. And, you know, it's like, there's not opportunity
for people to scrape value, you know, because what doesn't get used isn't going to go towards
profits for a CEO, like Mike Smart, you know, me, it's going to go towards the Treasury for the
entire Web3 community. And whoever has whatever levels of responsibility over the Treasury,
it's going to be up to that large group of people. And therefore, you know, there will be
less in the future if we continue to build like this as an industry and as a people, as a species,
and decentralize every aspect of humanity, essentially, then there won't, like, we will
obfuscate the issue of the imbalance of poverty and wealth. And, you know, it just is going to be so
much more amazing if we just continue to build these open source, decentralized tooling and use
everyone's stuff that we've been building for years and share each other's things, you know, and stop
accumulating intellectual property in a toxic fashion and just litigating people's businesses
out from underneath them instead of collaborate, you know, like anyways.
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And that is something that, you know, I'm personally passionate
about. And I know a lot of people in the community are as well. And I can see Wolfpack,
you've got your hand up. Sorry, but I wasn't looking at my screen. I didn't realize.
I don't know how long you've had your hand up for. You've got a question, my friend.
Yeah. Were you at NFT Miami?
Which year?
This year.
No, I wasn't. I was last year.
You were last year. Okay. Okay. Yes. See, I ended up going this year. My friend wanted
up last year because I was looking for your booth this year because he was he talked to
you last year and told me to come and find you and I didn't find your booth. So I was wondering
if I missed you because it wasn't that busy this year. I don't know if it was because of
COVID or what it was, you know, but yeah. So, well, hopefully, do you plan to go anywhere next year?
To be honest, the events are costly and
most of the conversations happen on the, at the parties on the boats afterwards,
like most of the money that's talked about aren't like the opportunities are very rarely given to
the people who are participating in the events that don't make it to the after parties.
So, yeah, because
it's in the after party.
Yeah. It's funny you say that because I was going to say if I go next year, I'm just going to go to
a lot of the after parties. I found, especially NFT Miami, like we paid for the extra, the Apeton ticket
and it definitely was not worth the money. And I, I actually connected more with people,
like you said, on the after parties. Um, and, uh, I actually, I met, um, do you know, Sammy
Arriaga? Have you ever heard of him?
No, he's a country singer from, he's actually from Miami, but he moved to Nashville, you know?
And like, I saw him like once at the actual event, I ended up being able to reach out to him and spend
time with him. And it was at the after party. And he, the one that actually told me, he's like,
he's like, don't waste your time. Just go to the after parties and stuff. So yeah, that's where I've
spent most of the time. So save a lot of money, save a lot of time, spare yourself a lot of
bullshit. It's too bad too, because you know, the, the events could be good, but it's just, um,
it's just money grabs. I mean, like, you know, a soda was $5, right? Yeah. You're going there for a,
for a socializing experience. And that, that is the gist. So you're not, it's partially entertainment,
it's partially networking, you know, but a lot of it's just showing off and seeing friends that you,
you don't get to see in real life very often, you know? Well, but you know what I'm thinking we
can do is maybe, you know, hopefully in the future we can plan something like that, where we
just plan like a one day thing where a lot of us get together, you know, where it's not like
about the, um, because the connections that I did make, I made a couple and they were really great.
And it's like, I, if I could have made more of that, it would have been so awesome, you know?
Yeah. I'm, I'm just like hyper-focused on building. And when I leave my home or my business,
you know, it's like, I'm, it's almost like when you reach out and overextend yourself,
try to lift something heavy and fuck up your back. Like, yeah, I'm good. I'm good right here.
But when you get me bouncing around now, I don't know where my, this email is. I don't know where
that is. You know, like my phone isn't exactly six inches to my left, so I can't grab it. You
know what I mean? Like, so I'm just cool on that. The other, I'll send other humans everywhere to do
those things for me. I'm not going to do it. But I just thought it was crazy for the money that we
spent, what you got and what you didn't get. You know what I mean? And, and that's, you know,
that's everything. Everybody's always trying to be out for something, you know? But I mean,
our ticket was $470. And yeah, that's why you go to sponsor the booths. Because if you sponsor,
now you're spending double what people are spending for tickets, but you have an opportunity to showcase
your project, your projects and products and get that money back. Yeah. Well, I think it's pretty
cool that, um, you know, your friend had seen Meta Builders, um, the year before. Yeah. Well,
it's cool because I, I had, you know, it's, it's like, we talk about, you know, good projects and
like who to look out for and you know what I mean? And it's like, and, and he also told me to, uh,
reach out to one of the other ones that we reached out to, which was Aurora, uh, A-U-R-A. And, uh,
we actually ended up reaching out to them and they're helping us now, but it was, it's cool that
it's, it's like, if you can get in this community of the smaller groups, you can, you can really find
out the good people are, but it's just, you've got to make sure you are finding the good people.
Right. And that's what this is a platform for is so that people can
be verified in open forums and, and you can hear people talk and listen to what they say. Now you have
a recording of their voice saying specific things so that in the future, you can measure that against
what's on the blockchain, which isn't going anywhere, you know, and you can say, well,
this person is full of ship or, you know, not. And now you have that layer of security with the
community of communities. And then when it goes that layer deeper into metagame, now you're verifying
individuals' abilities and character. And, you know, they go through the process of
the metagame onboarding. And by the time they're on the other end of that, they're a verified
individual that is able to then work on projects for meta builders, for these traditional businesses.
And, and with all of these layers of safety, including things like WebEasy, our newest partner,
we are able to provide the safest, most efficient and fun onboarding experience for Web3 in existence.
Now, I had a question for you. And tell me what you think of this. I was thinking, okay,
because I do one of my parts of my project is actual in real life dog rescue. And could you guys verify
that people are doing what they're saying they're doing as far as like donations and stuff like that?
Right. Well, that's, that's another thing, is that we have, you know, other people in our network,
like Earth Fund. Yeah, they have a mechanism for funding that is just like that, where
you basically launch your nonprofit on this platform, and it becomes a DAO that then people
vote whether or not certain philanthropic efforts are funded. And then that funding is transparent and
immediate via the blockchain. And, you know, so you can see it all where it goes and who,
who it's going to and who voted it in and, and all of that.
See, because that's one thing that I want to do for, for myself,
is I want to have it set up to where my project is provable, where the donations are going to,
you know, like, does that make sense? Am I saying that right?
Yeah, just, you check out earthfund.io.
Yeah, definitely.
You can go create a DAO for free and drop the token on their platform. And, and people who own the token,
the one earth token can vote whether or not your project gets funded. And it's pretty dope. And it's
very, very quick and easy and seamless. The whole process, they set up a treasury for you,
like Gnosis and whatnot, but just be prepared for it to, you know, you, you got to put liquidity to
your own token and all these other different things.
Oh, that's fine. And that's what I want. But you know what I mean? I want to have that proof.
You know what I'm saying? Because like I said, I'm out here, I'm already in real life doing what I'm
talking about. So I like me proving, it's not, I don't even want to say proving me being verifiable.
You know what I'm saying? I want people to say, oh, look at, he's doing this. And he said he's
doing this and he's doing this. And you know, I want the checks and balances, you know, that's,
and I think that goes into somebody that's doing the right thing. They want that stuff,
you know, because I don't want somebody to say, oh, well, he's not doing what he said with the
money. Cause now I have to prove it. Whereas if I just have something like this, I already have that
set up, you know? So yeah, that makes perfect sense.
We normally run these spaces for two hours.
We are very quickly approaching that. I just want to quickly add that in there.
Yeah. Yeah. No, nice one, Baker. Nice one. Is there anything else you was wanting to progress
onto next Mike about your substantially larger ecosystem?
Well, right now I think the most important thing to me is what's most important to everyone else. And
that is to create a mechanism with which we can prove what we're talking about. And therefore,
you know, that leads me to want to mention that the community of communities book project,
because, you know, this is an incredible project that we put together that has basically allowed these
smaller projects or brands to get into a high quality product, an NFT book collaboration that will also be
minted or it'll be minted and it'll be published on Amazon. But essentially, you know,
it's 150 Matic for the first page. And once the book is complete, we're going to be putting it in the
crypto magazine, which is in 19 countries worldwide. And nowhere anywhere will you be able to find
such high quality products and such a large
reach for your product for such a low barrier to entry.
And we have hangry animals, crypto magazine collaborating on the project and lots of other
different professionals that are going to be able to execute on on this high quality product.
So anyhow, and we're delegating a lot of the work or all of the work through the platform
on MetaBuilder so that we can help onboard people and teach people at the same time
while they're getting paid to do the work for the NFT book project, which is basically all the stuff
we're all doing, like how everyone's always like tricky and bacon and rev are always up here in
the spaces. We're just going to essentially be turning that around to monetizing our activities
and highlighting the projects that are participating in this book project.
And that'll be a good base layer, something fun and easy to understand for people to start
understanding our ecosystem and benefiting from participating as well.
Yeah, which I think is absolutely brilliant because this is an absolutely incredible
way for communities to come together as well, you know, because it's going to be a series of
10 books. And the goal is to have 100 pages in each book. And like Mike was saying, the first book,
the pages will cost 150 Mike per page. But then obviously, that will go up every single book. And to,
you know, have your NFT character being the in that story that will be, you know, put globally is
absolutely remarkable for just 150 Mike and to have, you know, a potential of 99 other communities
supporting a project that your project is a part of is not only web three to its core, but you can
imagine that the reach that that will get for everybody and really showcase what web three is
all about, about, you know, bringing people together and, you know, an ecosystem that supports every
single person that's inside of it. I just think it's a great way to really showcase that as well.
So I think it's an absolutely amazing way to really show the true benefit of collaboration,
you know, the networking opportunities that will come with that as well. You know,
as a, you know, someone that owns their own projects, you know, having the ability to network
and connect with 99 of the projects can only do amazing things. And to have your brand put globally,
I just think it's absolutely remarkable for just 150 Mike. Right. And then it scales up as we go on
so that we're not having people buy into this big old project. And now we have a treasury of a half
a million dollars worth of crypto sitting in a wallet and people are waiting on it to execute.
We scale it in a way to where it's like, okay, well, the first book is going to only net us $15,000,
which with which we're going to have to develop the first book. And so we're going to be able to
showcase the quality work that we can do at a low budget and show our, our trust, you know,
prove that trust and prove that ecosystem is what, you know, I say it is. And now we've got the next
book, we've got that momentum of the first book. And if it's quality, then we move forward to the next
book. If it's not, nobody's out more than 150 Matic for, you know, participating in something that
could have been something cool. So it, in my opinion, it's a low risk, high reward.
And I, I would suggest anybody that has a project that wants to get their, their project
into the crypto magazine, but can't afford the thousands of dollars that it costs per page to
get in, you know, our partnership with crypto magazine has allowed us to take more control over
some of the content that gets into the magazine. And therefore, you know, we can execute on this
project and verify that, that we can get the level of coverage that we say we can, you know,
not like other people who can say, you know, say a thing and not execute on a thing. We have proof
and, uh, it's all on the blockchain.
Yeah. Which is another thing that, uh, I admire about the MetaBuilders ecosystem is that everything
that you guys do and have done is on the blockchain, on the blockchain and verifiable, which I just
think is absolutely amazing. As well as all over social media, of course, you know, I've been
through that entire process myself, just, you know, it was a rabbit hole. I can say I definitely
enjoyed going down and it completely blew my mind. And I actually surprised myself with how much I
learned going through, you know, your journey in this, in this space. And it's something I respect
you highly for. Uh, sorry, Wolfpack, go on.
I was just going to say, um, I definitely want to get in. Do I contact, uh, MetaBuilders directly?
Or who do I, do you have a wallet address you can send me? Or what's the, what's the process?
Yeah. I'll, uh, reach out to you, um, after the space and I'll send you over everything that
you need. You can contact, um, any of the community, community's team or MetaBuilders, uh,
are you in the telegram? Uh, the community, community telegram? No, I don't. I had a problem
with telegram. I, uh, in the beginning. Um, so I quit using telegram. Um, well, yeah, I've
got my discord so I can get on community of, of communities, discord and just open a ticket.
Okay. Okay. I'll do that. I'll do that. Cause I'm, I can't believe that you're not filled
up yet. I mean, this is the most amazing idea that I've heard of in a long time. So yeah,
thank you. And we have got, um, quite a few projects that are, um, you know, I've reserved
a spot for the book and want to get in the book. Um, and what we're trying to do is, you
know, give the, the community sort of the first chance to get into the book because obviously
as we scale it up, we do really want to try and give the opportunity, especially with the
first book being the most affordable one to get into. We really want to sort of bring
that to the community of communities first. And then obviously as it scales out and gets
more unrecognized and seen for, for, for its capabilities, then, you know, people outside
of, of the community communities will then also want to do the same.
Yeah. Also, also some of the stuff we've got planned, we've not even spoken about here.
There's, there's some really, really, really good ideas.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Tip of the iceberg stuff.
I don't know if it's just me, but I'm sitting here thinking like, why would you not, you know
what I mean? Just even like, like he said, 150 Matic, if it didn't work out, is nothing,
you know what I mean? That's like literally no money to, you know, compared to what any
kind of marketing to get globally costs. I mean, that's, that's insane. So plus, plus
just being connected with, um, the community of communities on it is great and the whole
thing. So yeah, I'm definitely in.
Um, yeah, no, that really means a lot. Um, and yeah, we really appreciate that because
it does mean a lot to us, you know, you know, a lot of us have been in this industry for,
you know, numerous years and, you know, like if you, if you just, when you take a deeper
dive into the MetaBuilders ecosystem and you see what the, these guys have done already
and the people that they're connected with. And if you just look at, you know, the community
communities as well, and who we're connected with and, you know, who we, who we all have
in our ecosystems, it will, you know, become very obvious of, of, of what, what, what we're
capable of and what we're trying to do. Um, so yeah, I appreciate that you see the value
in that because, you know, what, what we've told people compared to what we've got going
on in the background, you know, there's so much more that we can't wait to bring to
everybody. And, you know, the people who've got support on us in this process as well,
it's, yeah, it's really, really exciting on our end because, you know, we're looking
forward to delivering on this.
Yeah. Well, and I, I know the way that you guys are just, I mean,
in the way that we do these spaces and everything, it's always, it's way more impressive than
what we actually get. I mean, then we expect what you get is more impressive. So I know
you guys are going to do more than I'm even imagining, but, you know, I'm just happy with
just being, having my NFT in a book for that kind of money is amazing to me.
Yeah. Thank you, brother. Really appreciate that.
Yep.
Yeah. I mean, what I wanted to highlight before we go is that we also want to provide
opportunities to earn your way into some of these products because I understand we have
high ticket products and some people might not be able to afford them, but still would
like them. And if, so if people are selling pages to the books or selling products, you know,
there will be a commission on any products via MetaBuilders. So if you guys know of a project
that might be, have funding, then you can toss them our way, we'll give you 10% of whatever
we sell. So, and some of our packages are, you know, a hundred ETH. So there's opportunity
there to earn just on sales alone. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
We definitely need people to spread the word and we're working on the budget of a bunch
of individuals, you know, and we've are all normal people. So the more support we get
from our community, the more efficient this is going to end up playing out.
Yeah. And I love that about, about your ecosystem is that, you know, even people that, you know,
bring you people that require your services, get, get a, get a commission. I just think
that that's amazing because with it being such a, a reliable trustworthy ecosystem that,
you know, people, you know, all the services you provided are literally visible and on the
blockchain for people to, you know, verify from, I think it's amazing that the services
that you guys provide, people can benefit from. So even, even if you, you know, you don't
provide a service yourself that just spreading the word about services that you guys provide,
people can earn from. I just think that that's a remarkable thing because there's people in
Web3 that just enjoy the community aspects of it. You know, there's people that don't
have their own projects, but make content, you know, that's how I started in my journey
was, was just making content, you know, and then I met amazing people and things progressed
from there. So yeah, massive respect for that.
Probably about time to, uh, oh, look, Tracy just joined the chat, look.
Yeah, Tracy Chapman is always in the chat listening in from my end. But yeah, has anyone else got
any more questions for MetaBuilders before we do, uh, wrap this up? It's been an amazing space.
Um, and if so, put your hand up and we'll get you up on the stage for you to ask some questions.
Um, but in the meantime, um, Mike, I just want to say massive respect for what you've brought
to Web3, you know, not even just to the space, but what you've been doing for, for years in
this industry and the, you know, the hours that you've put into building the infrastructure
you've built to benefit other people that want to either build or require those services.
It's absolutely remarkable. Um, I think Fundme wants to come up and speak. So there you go,
uh, Fundme, welcome to the stage. The microphone's just connecting. There you are. How are you
doing, Fundme? Welcome back.
Hello, good evening.
Hey, how are you doing? You all right?
I'm good.
Good. Have you come up, have you got a question or have you got something you'd like to add?
Yeah, I have a question, though.
Yeah, go for it.
You know, like, um, you know, I'm just getting started, right? I don't know much about this
thing. So I went to, like, the page, some links, I can, I click on some links and read
some things about, um, the NFT stuff, the community, community stuff. So, you know, like, I don't
really know much about it. I really want to get started, know much about it. But the
listeners in the morning, I've been hearing what other people are saying. I'm trying to
pick some things up, learn. So, like, how do I really get started? Maybe in any way or
how I don't just, I just want to know that.
Yeah, absolutely. Um, meta builders actually have, um, a place you can read articles that
I think, well, that should be perfect for you, especially if you just started out and
it's, um, do you want to say what the link is, um, Mike? I mean, I will, I will send you
the, um, link to the articles after the space directly. So you can, you can click on them.
Um, so there's no point in me saying it out loud because you probably won't remember
it, but I will send you the links because meta builders, I think it's meta build, is
it meta builders.com? Sorry, meta. Sorry, what is it again, Mike? The sub stack.
I just put it in a chat. It's meta builders.substack.com.
That's the one. Thank you. I always get that wrong.
Yeah. So on the bottom right corner of this, uh, space for me, there's a little, um, chat
button. I think it should be purple. And in there is just put on a link and that will take
you to meta builders articles. And in there, there's articles about what is an NFT, um, about
cyber security, about the entire industry. There's so many articles in there that will
help you, um, get all the education that you need to get a really good understanding of
the entire industry, really. Yeah, no problem. Yeah. Thank you for coming up and asking that
question.
Has anyone else got any questions you'd like to ask before, before the end of the space?
Yeah. Can I, uh, can I go to bed now?
Yeah, sure. You're welcome to go to bed anytime.
Yeah. Absolutely. But yeah, no, Mike, I just wanted to say, you know, thank you very much
for, you know, what the value you've really brought to the industry and the value you've
brought to the community of communities as well. I know the entire team will completely
agree. You've brought so much value and experience and education, and you've really gone above and
beyond to help teach us about the depths of web three and all the things that are in your
ecosystem and, you know, better ways to, you know, improve our brands, security and everything
in between. So yeah, massive. Thank you for that.
Don't know if you have any closing statements, Mike, you would like to add before we bring
Tracy Chapman in.
Um, I just want, uh, everyone to go through the comment section and, you know, reshare
everything real quick and make sure that it gets, you know, as much attention as it can.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure people wouldn't mind running through the comment section and,
uh, sharing, uh, all the meta builders posts is posted in there so people can, you know,
add a plus to your name. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Everybody add a plus to your name because it
just represents that you care. Absolutely. If you appreciate what we do and what we stand for,
then yeah, you know, that represents that. I put one here on my Twitter and on my discord. So
I appreciate everything you guys do. Um, and I appreciate, uh, you appreciate inviting me up
and everything. So thank you.
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. We appreciate that. Well, yeah, if you want to show support to, um,
meta builders, the best way you guys can do that is, you know, check out his profile,
you know, click on his website, you know, check out his sub stack, um, share his tweets and really
spread the word about meta builders. You know, if, you know, if you, any of you guys make content,
um, that is another brilliant way that you can help people learn about what meta builders is,
you know, have a look into them and see what they do and, you know, don't take our word for it.
Go and check it out for yourself. Like, as we always advise, always do your own research.
Nothing we say is financial advice or advice at all. It's just our passions and things we care about,
the things we're building. So always do your own research, you know, look, look into it yourself. And
if you, um, enjoy the web-free space, then you'll definitely enjoy, um, looking through that.
Well, yeah, um, if that's everything, Mike, then thank you very much.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, everyone. We really appreciate it.
I'm going to play our song as we always do. We play the same song we answer those in which
we leave with. So guys, thank you very much for coming. I hope you enjoy the song as much as,
as we do. And, uh, yeah, we'll catch you next time.
Don't you know we're talking about a revolution? It sounds like a whistle.
While they're standing in the world's red lines. Crying at the doorsteps of those armies of salvation.
Wasting time in the other floor of the lines. Sitting around, waiting for a promotion.
Don't you know we're talking about a revolution? Don't you know? We're talking about a revolution.
Shining sounds. Yes, man.
Who are people gonna rise up and get their share?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Who are people gonna rise up and take what's there?
Run, run, run, run, run.
It's finally the table, I'm starting to turn.
Talking about a revolution.
It's finally the table, I'm starting to turn.
Talking about a revolution, oh no.
Talking about a revolution, oh no.
While they're standing in the welfare line.
Crying to those of the zombies, oh no.
Wasting time, in the other floor of the dimes.
Sitting around, waiting for a promotion.
So you know, talking about a revolution.
And finally the tables, I'm starting to turn.
Talking about a revolution.
It's finally the tables, I'm starting to turn.
Talking about a revolution, oh no.
Talking about a revolution, oh no.
Talking about a revolution, oh no.
As always guys, thank you very much for joining.
And if you got the plus, you're one of us.
Catch you next time legends.
communities, away from the flag.
I'm coming up, what's going on?
I're not going to be the worst.
Okay, perfect.
Oh no, we're 수가 Toronto,ruce.
Hey, oh no.
I'm going up.
You can completely.
And then I'm coming up with some new piece.
Like the world.
I sn Order, make life alert.
You can easily change it.
You will be more like.
I'm coming up with this psychosis.
Here I'm trying to put the back.
I will go, gosh.
And if I can change theTHROP US.
