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Web3 Collab Dos & Don’ts @cosmicbagelsart @Yinkore_ @kreatorhood
Recorded: May 4, 2023 Duration: 1:06:19Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hello.
Hello.
Hi, Josh.
Hi, Nas.
Hi, Cosmic Beagles. Welcome up.
Hey, hey. How are you guys?
I'm good. Thank you for having me.
Nice to meet you.
We're waiting for a couple speakers, of course.
I'm going to get ready to tweet this out. Nas, thanks for hanging with us.
Sit tight. We will kick off shortly.
Welcome, Ed.
Okay. Great.
Actually, I just heard from Sarah, and she has something going on,
and so she's not able to join us at the moment.
So we are going to kick off with InCore, Creatorhood, and Cosmic Bagel.
So let me get this tweet out, and then we're ready to go.
One more minute. Thanks.
All right.
Okay. So thanks for joining us.
Our topic today is thinking about Web3 creator collaborations
and talking to some creators who are kind of in it
and have been working together with folks for a bit,
and what are some of the do's and don'ts of collaborating with Web3.
So thank you to our panelists for joining.
And, yeah, we'd love to start with an introduction
and hear more about you and the work that you do.
So we'll go to each of you, each of the panelists.
Thanks.
Hi, I'm Cosmic Bagels.
I'm a multidisciplinary artist,
and I've been actively in the Web3 for the better part of two years, I guess.
Yes, I've been actively in the Web3 for the better part of two years.
And I don't talk a lot in spaces.
I don't know.
I'm kind of shy.
So this is part of a learning curve for me, but I'm excited to be here.
And I think the topic is interesting.
I think that Web3 and collaboration with Web3, I think it's the future.
And I think that much more than ever, the Web3 and, you know, the blockchain in general
has made collaborations a lot more, like, seamless.
And it has kind of, like, birthed a whole new dynamic when it comes to creating art.
And it's interesting.
I've done a couple of collaborations myself.
And before now, it wouldn't be something that, you know, I could have easily had access to.
So I think it's an interesting topic, and I'm excited to see how this unfolds.
And Aisha, you want to go next on Creatorhood?
Yeah, no, happy to.
Hi, I'm Aisha.
I'm one of the co-founders of Creatorhood, which is a creator-first utility NFT marketplace.
I'm really excited to be here and hear from all of you.
Do I go next?
Yes, thank you.
Okay.
Hi, everyone.
My name is Yankora, and I'm a digital artist from Nigeria.
I'm going to share most of my pieces about Black people, specifically Black women, and our lived experiences.
And, yeah, this is an interesting topic for sure.
Yeah, I have a lot to say about collaboration, so I'm looking forward to diving into the topic.
Thank you, guys, for having me.
Awesome.
Yeah, looking forward to this chat.
Thank you all for being here and sharing your time and your insights with us.
So, yeah, my first question is, how do you typically begin collaborations with other creators in Web3?
Who usually initiates, or kind of how does that conversation tend to start?
For me, I think it's some art pieces.
I speak as an artist.
Sometimes you feel like you want to push certain boundaries beyond what you do.
You know, I speak personally.
This is what has the collaborations I've done.
This is what informed it.
So I had this piece I was making.
I don't do lots of animations and 3D, but I just felt like the story I was trying to tell would come to life much better
if I could make, if I could transform this piece that I've already made or that I started making into like a 3D or something.
So I kind of just looked through a couple of the friends I've made so far in the Web3 that are, you know, basically 3D artists.
And I started the conversation.
And I feel like sometimes you know who you want to collaborate with when the conversation goes smooth.
They can see the direction in the art you want to do because at the end of the day, you're still trying to create art.
So it is important that who you are bringing into this, into your creative space can see your direction and can, you know, understand what it is you want to do.
So I feel like just like most of the other partnerships we do in life, collaborating within the Web3 space, some of it is natural.
Sometimes you have conversations with people or sometimes you just, you know, the feeling is right.
I feel like, I feel like this person, based on the work they already do, based on how they tell the stories in their art, you can feel like, okay, you, you kind of are like in the same wavelength and you feel like it will work out.
And then it just, it could happen like that.
So, yeah, I love it's really natural.
I think one of my themes for Web3 is like that we're better together and that's why we collaborate.
And so, you know, searching for another artist that can complement these ideas that you have that you want to do.
I think that makes, it makes a ton of sense and it seems like a really good way to start.
And Corey, how about, what are some of the ways that you start to collaborate with other artists and creators?
In all honesty, I'm kind of one of those people in the Web3 space who isn't the most assertive when it comes to collaboration specifically.
Mostly because I think my process is very personal.
And so most of the time I'm really not trying to let anyone into my headspace.
So typically all the collaborations I've done, someone else has actually initiated.
And then based on how I'm feeling, based on our energy, I decided if I want to move forward or not.
And so I've actually refused pretty much almost every collaboration.
It's not funny I'm talking about collaborations, but I'm one of the worst collaborators.
I definitely think, you know, when you make art the way I make art, it's just extremely hard to let anyone into your headspace, like I said.
And so before I move forward with collaborations, I really have to make sure we have similar energy.
And actually one of my first collaborations in this space ended up turning out pretty badly for me because me and that person actually no longer speak.
Because it just, yeah, we just weren't compatible.
And I feel like when I had first come into the space, I was hearing collaborations so much and it wasn't really something I had done.
And I kind of jumped into it just because it was something I had heard people did.
And so it wasn't really something I thought about.
The person approached me and I'm like, oh, okay, fine, since, you know, this is the space we're in.
And I think if there's anything I'm going to say, I think when it comes to collaborations, you should definitely take your time.
Because that's now a piece I don't even like to look at.
And that isn't something, you know, you want to have to deal with.
And so I feel like it's a very, very deliberate process.
I think just because everyone in Web3 kind of wants to grow together doesn't always mean that, you know, your energies should form a piece all the time.
So I think usually I let people come to me, but there have been a few times that I would be like, okay, you know, let's do something eventually.
But I kind of suck at following up.
So, yeah, that's my piece.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, I appreciate that really level-headed approach.
And it's not just like you work with anybody and, you know, you have to be okay with it.
I think it's really great to be selective and to do it the way that you have.
And I'm sorry to hear that the first collab went a little weird.
Aisha, you know, one thing I think about is like the phrase, it takes two to tango.
And I know some of your background as a professional dancer.
When you think about kind of collaborating with a dance partner, what are some of the things that go into that on your end?
Yeah, it's, for me, I think collaboration, obviously, from a dance context, is almost like a marriage.
It's like a real, you know, you're with the person or people a lot.
You know, they're definitely in your space.
So, I think for me, I'm really thinking about like, is this somebody that I want to really spend a lot of time with and invest a lot of energy and, you know, time into it?
And are we really aligned around, you know, a common goal?
You know, some of that's like just super important because, you know, if it's just not, the chemistry is not there or we're not sort of on the same page on things, it just, it can, I guess the cracks show pretty quickly.
So, I definitely appreciate some of the earlier comments where, you know, you kind of just do need to be a bit ruthless in some ways.
Like, you just be very straight and say, like, does this feel right?
You know, is this something that I really want to invest my time into?
And knowing that, like, if it does work out, obviously, there's, you know, it's more than one plus one is two.
It just, it can be amazing, right, what you can reap together.
So, yeah, that's kind of a little bit how I think about it.
I think also the experience is quite telling, right?
So, there are things that you think look good on paper or you think that something's going to work out and then you just don't really know until you try it.
So, I think part of it is having to have that sort of experience of trial and error and just experiencing it and seeing if it's, you know, something you want to pursue.
Great. Yeah, thanks for those thoughts.
I mean, opening it back up to the group, what are some of the things that you prioritize when, you know, working on and talking through a collaboration with another artist?
And maybe on the other side of it, are there, as you've worked on collabs, have you honed in on specific deal breakers that you have as you're exploring that where you realize, like, oh, okay, that's not going to work?
So, priorities are deal breakers when it comes to collaborations on Web3.
Should I go first?
I don't know if Cosmic Bagels.
Oh, yes, you are.
Okay.
I think some things I prioritize, like I said, if our energies match, also art style, because I feel like my art style is very busy most of the time.
And so, if our styles don't match, there's a tendency for it to become a bit messy.
And I don't like that.
So, I typically look for artists who have a bit muted styles or styles that even though they are maximalist, they're a fit, there's a match.
Because I feel like because of how busy my work is, there is a tendency for it to go kind of left.
So, that's one of the things.
Two, I look for people who are super communicative, because I feel like I don't like people that are bad communicators.
I know some people don't mind it.
Like, people who just tell them, like, one thing and then they move on.
I'm not that kind of person.
I have to go back and forth with a lot of people.
So, if I notice, like, early on, you're not the type of person that communicates.
I kind of just take a step back.
Obviously, you also want to move with people that have integrity.
So, like, people that, like, copy art and stuff like that is a, that's, I guess, you can say is my deal breaker.
Yeah, I don't do stuff like that.
If you copy art, I don't like you.
And then also, because most of my work is, like I said, having to deal with Black women and our lived experiences.
If you're the kind of person that doesn't know how to respect those lived experiences, then it is an absolute deal breaker for me.
Most of the time in the space, you wouldn't know because everything is about art and you hardly ever get to know someone to that kind of level.
But there have been times where I'll talk to someone and maybe if we're going to work on something, I'll say, okay, no, because I didn't think they were respectful.
So, those are just a couple of, like, my things, I think.
For me, I would say an outstanding deal breaker is a lack of commitment to the process or to the project.
But, like Inka said, I'm super communicative when it comes to collaborations.
Like, we should never get tired of, like, talking about it because I'm like that when I'm making my own pieces of art.
So, I feel like it's a big part of me to go back and question this, to go back and try to think about this.
I spend some time with it.
So, I feel like a deal breaker would be somebody who would, I would find it a deal breaker if somebody wanted to rush my process and not, like, understand my process.
And, you know, like, but on the other hand, I also, I try to eliminate the deal breakers.
I've never had a terrible collaboration before.
So, I try to eliminate the deal breakers before I even embark on collaborating with the person.
I feel like, for collaboration pieces, I'm always in a headspace of trying something new.
So, I don't have, like, a firm grip of the process.
And I'm a lot more loose with it.
I usually tend to be a lot more relaxed.
I usually am given to going with the flow because I understand that no matter how hard I try, I may not be able to have somebody get into my headspace as much as I would want them to.
So, for the new piece, I like the experience to create what it creates.
And I've only collaborated with my friends, actually.
So, there are people that I know I can have informal and formal conversations with about the process.
And I feel like that has helped me.
I think it goes back to doing due diligence with who you want to, like, collaborate with, you know.
Like, knowing who you want to collaborate with.
Energy's matching is a very important, like, factor with it.
So, my biggest deal breaker, I guess, would just be somebody who doesn't, like, understand the process and, like, makes no effort to try to understand the process.
So, yeah.
Just a follow-up question there.
I guess, when you're in that process of trying to suss it out, you know, do you, in your mind, is it, you know, let me see how it goes and kind of keep it more open?
Or, you know, in your mind, are you thinking, I'm going to, you know, let this sort of run for, you know, a couple of weeks, a month, kind of see where we get to?
How do you, you know, in that discovery time to see if the collaboration is going to work, how do you box that?
I think that the art I'm trying to make also determines that.
But mostly, I delegate collaborations to explorative types of art, like art that it's not really, it's something I'm trying to explore or it's a new thing I'm trying to learn.
Or it's, or I'm collaborating with the intent to learn from that person's process.
Because I feel like sometimes it's easier to, if I wanted to get wisdom, if I wanted to get some sort of inspiration, or just learn a process or learn a tool, or, you know, learn a style from somebody.
I feel like they're much more committed, if we're working together, as opposed to, you know, can you teach me this thing?
So, but that is still an artistic process.
And I still hold it very important to, like me, that, okay, this is, this is a process, this is art that I'm making.
So in that regard, I would be a lot more open to going with the flow.
But if I have, like, an idea, and I feel like this person will help me, you know, push the boundaries of this idea to exactly how I want it to be, I'm much more stringent in that regard.
Because I've already have, like, a process.
It's either I want you to help me interpret this in this way, or I want us to work together and further this art piece into this realm.
And in that regard, I would be, you know, much more stringent, I would be, I would be, I would take, I would be much more precautious of who I approach to do that with.
But on the other aspect, if it's just I want to explore a new style, I would be a little bit much more, like, liberal and relaxed with it.
I hope that answers the question.
Yeah, that's super.
Any tips or tricks for making it easier to get in sync and vibe with a creative as you're, you know, starting to work together?
Um, talk about things other than art, I guess, that's a way, and phone calls, if you guys can meet in real life, that's also nice.
I think just, like, trying to build a friendship rather than make it too much about the collab kind of helps you guys find a very sweet spot where it's like, oh, you're doing this thing with a friend, and it has now become so much more than what it started out as.
And again, also being very forthcoming with communication, I feel like, especially when people don't know each other, it's kind of weird to be too frank.
But that's what I appreciate specifically, when people are honest with me about what they like, and what they don't like, it helps me kind of gauge what's how to approach them, right?
Because me, I'm a very straightforward person.
So if I don't like something, I'm not going to say I like it just because.
And I feel like when people do that with me, it makes me feel uncomfortable because now I don't trust you.
And that's not a good foundation to build the collaboration on.
So I think, yeah, just trying to be honest with each other, talking about things other than art so that you guys can find other, like, common grounds, like, maybe music, maybe TV shows you guys are watching, anything that makes an otherwise, you know, work environment seem kind of chill.
That definitely helps because it takes pressure off of what you guys are doing.
So I think those are some ways to make things a bit lighter.
So usually I would say do like a Zoom call almost right off the bat that you guys decide to want to work with each other so that you get a feel of things because typing in the DMs is kind of, I don't know, impersonal sometimes.
I just want to say that I agree with everything Yankari has said.
I think that it's a right approach, like trying to build friendships or trying to get to relate on other aspects besides the art, you know, trying to relate with the person of which you want to do the collaborations with.
I think that's a great entry point to knowing if you vibe or knowing if you could tolerate each other or if you, you know, you could communicate better with each other.
I feel like that's pretty much it.
It's like it's trying to build like a relationship ish, you know, it's almost like trying to partner with somebody in any other aspect, you know, besides art.
So you'd have to know them, you'd have to, you know, understand their headspace, probably understand their schedule, you know, like you said, you Zoom calls or phone calls and stuff.
You try to, it makes you understand them much more beyond the artist that they are.
So you get to understand their person and you would know how to make your demands or you know how to, you know, language you would better like communicate with, you know, what, you know, how to, what terms or, you know, what they're comfortable with.
So I feel like building relationships or establishing friendships is a really great entry point.
Yeah, one thing I would just build on that, I think what I found helpful is I think, you know, above and beyond getting to know them outside of the more sort of professional collaboration that you're going to do is also just having a little bit around like rules of engagement.
You know, what happens if, you know, if things go south, if there's anything on their side, like on the horizon that you should know about, just so that it's a little bit like sketching out a little bit of the downside.
Because I think sometimes collaborations are always, you know, obviously you're thinking of the positive and, you know, what could go right.
But then sometimes things don't go right, you know, and sometimes just to protect that relationship, it's good to kind of just discuss, like, you know, how are we going to deal with some of these things if they come up so that we can, you know, be professional and still kind of leave that relationship intact.
Yeah, I wanted to talk, too, about the creative process.
I know that's really personal.
But when you, so when you pull someone else into turning that creative process into one that's, you know, collaborative or kind of back and forth, what is that?
What does that look like?
Do you tend to work kind of independently and then pass?
Or do you open up inviting them into some of your own process as well?
Well, I think it just, it depends on how vulnerable I'm willing to be with that process.
At the time, you know, because some art pieces are, you know, as a digital artist, for me, some art pieces are a design, you know, some art pieces are, are, I'm working with these tools, I'm working with, it's just, it's an expression of, you know, design skills or something like that.
While some other art pieces are a very, you know, personal journey, it's a culmination or an expression of a very personal journey.
So with collaborations, I feel like if at all I need to collaborate with somebody on a piece that is an expression of a very personal journey, I have to be aware that it would require some certain sense of vulnerability.
vulnerability and be at peace with myself to, you know, be that vulnerable.
So, you know, so I feel like sometimes it's the art piece that ultimately will, will detect which, like how, how close you, you, you know, you introduce or you draw or you make the person you're collaborating with to, to see your creative process.
You know, sometimes it's, you know, sometimes it's, you could work up to a certain extent and they do their magic on, on their end and they don't need to see how you created what you created.
Sometimes they have to be, some, some collaboration pieces mean that you'd have to, they'd have to be part of the entire experience.
Say a photographer is collaborating with the model, you know, I feel like that whole process, they'd have to work together from scratch.
They'd have to exchange creative ideas on direction and stuff like that.
But say I'm making a 2D piece and I would like it to, you know, have pop or something, you know, I would like it to be a 3D piece or something.
I don't think that it's really important for the 3D artist to, you know, be part of my every step of the collaboration of the, of my creative process onto bringing my piece into life.
So I just, I feel like it, it depends on what I'm trying to express, but for whatever it is, it has to be a deliberate action.
It has to be deliberate that, okay, I know that this would require this much vulnerability for me.
This would require this much, um, or granting this person this much access to my process.
And I'm willing to do it.
I'm up for it.
I need to do this for this collaboration to work.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think my point of view is also kind of similar.
I think it depends on where the collaboration starts.
Like if it is at the idea, like parts of things or when you guys have already finished.
Okay.
So for example, if it's like two artists saying, oh, we need to collaborate and neither of you like have any idea what you guys want to do together.
And so the process starts from you guys actually talking about things that you have in common and things you want to say and, um, what kind of voice you want the piece to have.
Um, so like a specific collaboration I did, um, I, we both decided that we wanted to talk about mental health because we had both struggled with our mental health.
And so we had to talk about that first and talk about our struggles with mental health first before we moved on to the design process because, um, so we both realized that we had both dealt with anxiety.
And so that was what we decided to like focus on, um, because aside from anxiety, we had separate mental health issues.
So we're like, okay, let's focus on the ones we have in common.
And that was how, you know, we're like, okay, how can we, um, express, you know, having to deal with anxiety using your art style and my art style.
And we ultimately decided that she would do the figure and I would do like the lines around the figure.
And then we now decided to talk about color and stuff like that.
So it kind of depends as opposed to a different collaboration I did where an artist was like, Hey, I have, you know, a piece I've actually almost finished.
And I think I kind of need your like last minute additions to take this piece over the edge.
And so with that, you're not starting from the beginning. You're like, Oh, let me see the piece. Let me see if it's something I can kind of fit what, uh, my art style into.
And so with that, the process is kind of different. So you get the piece and you kind of, you know, think about if you, what you have will be an addition or a subtraction because sometimes a lot of people think, Oh, okay.
Um, she can add to my piece. And sometimes I look at the piece and I'm like, it's actually perfect.
And if I added onto it, it would actually take away from it. Um, so that's an entirely different kind of process.
So I guess it depends on, um, what you're doing, I think. Uh, but yeah, that's typically how the process is for me. Like I said, very communicative.
So it's a lot of back and forth for me usually.
Yeah. Thanks for that insight into how you all work.
Yeah. Before we, um, take questions, I know we had a small room and hopefully lots of people tuning in on the recording after, but the,
um, the, um, I did want to talk about kind of what you're currently working on, anything that you've got coming up or, or, um,
you're sharing at present and, um, yeah, I'll just give you a moment. I pinned, uh, I pinned your pin tweets up, but, uh, yeah. What's, what's the latest for you?
Um, I'm working on, uh, self-titled collection. I've, um, it's a collection of 10 pieces. I think I've done about four so far. Uh,
I see there's an aspect of collaboration. I think that we've not, you know, talked about, and that's where, like, especially in regards to web three, where, you know, artists can collaborate with like brands or collaborate with marketplaces.
I feel like that's, that's also a certain kind of collaboration because it brings me to the piece I'm currently working on, which is, um, I'm not supposed to announce this now, but I, I guess, which is in collaboration with Canva.
Yeah. So I'm, uh, I'm using Canva tools. I'm using Canva to, for this entire, um, self-titled collection and it's a, it's a collaboration. I feel like that's, uh, that's another way that collaborations can happen in the web three.
I feel like artists, I think I've seen where artists collaborate with, collaborate with marketplaces. I feel like exclusive drops by some marketplaces.
places with artists can be viewed as collaborations. I don't know, but I think so. So yeah, what I'm working on currently is a collaboration with a brand and, uh, it's a self-titled, um, collection. Um, I don't have any timeline for it. Cause I don't like to box myself in.
I, um, I, um, my creative process is very chaotic. So I don't know when I'm going to release it, but yeah, that's currently what I'm working on.
And I often segue into other pieces along the line. So I could be making a collab, a collection and I'll just have an idea to make something else and I'll just leave it and go make some other thing. So yeah, that's where I'm at right now.
Yeah, congrats on that collaboration. That's great. Looking forward to seeing that. Appreciate you sharing that here.
Yeah. I was going to say it's such a good point that, you know, you brought up because I agree. I think those are collaborations. And honestly, those are probably the ones I've done more of like brand collaborations. Um, so currently I'm not really working on anything. Like I'm always working on arts, but I'm not exactly minting much these days.
So last year I got into an artist in residency program with wild XYZ and, uh, I did a hundred individual pieces that I, you know, painted myself. And, um, last, no, not last month, uh, in March, it was actually released and all hundred pieces sold out, which was, you know, really great, really huge. Um, but basically I was burnt out after that.
Uh, uh, uh, projects because it was a hundred pieces. And so right now I'm trying not to put any pressure on myself to really mint anything. Um, so, you know, most of, uh, most of what I'm concentrating on right now is maybe selling all the pieces I have up, which luckily aren't that many anymore. Um, but yeah, I mint once a month.
Um, my line work pieces, um, my line work pieces, that's all I'm minting currently. Um, they, I mint two each month. That's, you know, 0.18. And right now all of them are sold out. Um, so I'll mint another one this month. Um, they typically sell out every month. So that's been really nice. But yeah, that's all I'm minting. Um,
I think I'm, I think I'm just trying to enjoy creating ads without the pressure of minting, especially after you complete a hundred pieces, you're kind of, uh, over it. Um, but yes, I think another collaboration branch we should talk about is collaborating with brands because I feel like my wild XYZ residency was such an enjoyable experience.
And I feel like it definitely like, um, um, made me very interested in the idea of doing more of that. Obviously, maybe not a hundred pieces because I don't think I can do that again. Um, but I just feel like I enjoyed the experience so much.
They made it a point to be super supportive throughout the process throughout the hundred pieces. I had a mentor and, you know, things just, they provided a lot of support that lets me know, okay, I wasn't doing it alone. And I feel like, um, a lot of brands, um, don't know how to do that. And, um, and I think especially in web three, uh, something I've noticed is that a lot of web three,
platforms or platforms or brands or anything, they kind of do this thing where, because we're in web three, they expect things to be minimal efforts. And it's a bit frustrating for me. I don't feel like if, to me, if you're not taking this space seriously, then how do you expect anyone else to take us seriously? I think, um, there's a level of, I don't know, uh, casualness.
I don't know if that's a word, but I don't know. There's a level of, you know, this casual air that we have. And while I like it, I just feel like if you want artists that you work with to feel supported, you have to make them feel like, you know, their art means something. It shouldn't be casual. You shouldn't, shouldn't like taking care of them shouldn't be an afterthought.
Afterthoughts is what I'm saying. And I feel like a lot of brands and a lot of marketplaces do that where it's like, okay, you guys are the afterthought to like the money I'm, I'm going to receive out of this collaboration.
And I think that's a weird way to cut things. Um, but yeah, um, that's all right now. I'm not really working on much, um, but I'm always creating that. So if you like arts, that's, you technically can't buy.
And, you know, just curious, how would you guys, um, like define or what is like a good collaboration feel like to you? So after the fact, you kind of look back and say, yeah, you know, that was worth it. I'm, I'm really glad I did it. What does success look like there?
Um, so, oh, sorry. Cosmic, do you want to go first?
No, it's fine. It's fine. Go first.
Okay. I just kind of wanted to reference, uh, this residency. So for me, it was first of all, having like a goal. Um, so with every art piece I have, I always have a goal.
And, um, for me, it's never about the finished product of, or if something makes me money is always about the process. And so, like I said, um, when I started the artist in residency process with the wild team, I had told them I wanted to do, I wanted to completely do a hundred pieces by myself.
And honestly, I didn't know how hard it was going to be until I started. And once I finished the hundredth piece, I knew I, like that was success to me. Cause like I said, again, the wild team was there from beginning to the end.
They had mentors, they had classes, they had resources for me. So again, it was a collaboration from the first piece till the hundredth piece. And by the time I had got to, you know, a hundred over a hundred, I was like, yeah, I just completed something I didn't think I was going to do.
And I was very proud of myself. So regardless of how everything had turned out, that was what success was for me. So I think it's, you know, achieving a goal regardless of what that goal is.
And you know, working towards that. That's what it is for me. Obviously a nice side of money. It's a very, very good indicator of success, but I feel like money isn't all, you know, there is, if I had done 50 pieces and made money from just 50 pieces,
I don't think it would have felt as nice as, you know, knowing I went in with a goal and I changed my goal. So that's usually what it looks like for me.
You know, collaborations provide an avenue for community. They provide an avenue for support.
support. They provide an avenue for some artists to be seen.
They provide avenues for some artists to be heard. So I would feel like success for me in terms of collaboration, especially in regards to, you know,
you know,
collaborating with brands,
or even collaborating with my peers.
It would be,
it would be that sense of community. It would be that sense of fellowship.
It would be that sense of,
it would be that sense of,
it would be that sense of,
I feel like if you embark on the journey, if you, if you do something with, if you, if you start a thing, when you, when it ends,
you can tell how you feel.
You know, you can, you can tell how you feel, you know, how you can tell that, Oh, this made me a better person.
Like, for example, most of the, like I said, sometimes I collaborate with people because I'm trying to learn a certain tool or I'm trying to understand a certain process.
So at the end of that collaborative exercise,
we must have exchanged enough knowledge for me to go back feeling like, okay, I learned what I wanted to learn.
It goes back to what you currently said about having a goal.
So when you go into any collaboration,
depending on what it is,
you have goals, right?
And at the end of that exercise,
if you feel like you met your goals,
or if you feel like you surpassed your goals,
whatever the goals may be,
you know, sometimes people who don't have as much audience,
as they could collaborate with people who have the audience.
So if at the end of the day,
you have much more visibility than you already did have,
because in this space,
getting visibility is an okay task sometimes.
So if you feel like at the end of this collaboration,
I've been able to have much more visibility than I did before.
And then that's great.
That must be success.
Visibility would lead to sales.
So you've made much more money than you would have made before.
That's success.
You know, you've been able to take your art to reach an audience that you did not reach before.
I feel like that's success.
And sometimes you've been able to just identify a community of people who are interested in your art.
Because when you collaborate with a person or persons,
I feel like people who respond to collaborating with you are people who become your first audience for your art.
So even just the sheer sense of having a community of people who resonate with your pieces, you know,
or if it becomes like a larger community.
See, I did a residency, a Voice HQ with Tamaka, please.
My first residency in the NFT space.
In fact, my first residency as an artist was with Voice HQ.
And I would want to call it a collaboration because they were involved with us every step of the way through funding,
through support, through mentorships, through Zoom lectures, you know, all through our residency.
And I learned a lot throughout that process.
And some of the friends that I have today in this space are people I met from that residency.
And it kind of was my first community ever that I had in the Web3 space.
So I would term that collaboration a success because, you know, it was real quiet coming into the Web3.
And then having the opportunity to do that residency, I started to, I met much, I met other people.
I met people who, you know, I could understand the artistic process.
People who were also interested in my art process.
And it made creating a little bit more exciting than what it was before.
So I feel like if you can find, depending on whatever it could be, it could be money,
it could be community, it could be, you know, a sense of belonging.
As long as, you know, you feel better off than when you started,
or as long as you feel like your goals have been met, that's a success.
Yeah, thanks for those thoughts.
If anyone in the audience want to ask a question, feel free to come up and request.
And I'm happy to invite you.
But, yeah, I definitely think that, you know, brands, companies, and residence programs
definitely count as collaborations because I think there's that exchange of kind of learning and sharing and relationships.
So, yeah, outside as welcome up.
Hey, thank you.
I was waiting for you to mess it up, but you got it right.
GM, GM, everyone.
So, I've been listening to this whole conversation, and I really appreciate what everyone has been talking about.
I just wanted to know, and this is open to all the artists, the conversation about art has been great,
but what I wanted to know, like, do you have legal considerations beyond the art when you're collaborating with people, right?
Because Yann Curry, for instance, mentioned that, you know, she did art and then basically ruined her relationship and things like that.
But what happens when that art is still selling?
Like, do you profit from it?
Like, what kind of legal framework do you work within and how do you stay protected in those instances?
And then just my second question would be, again, this is open to all.
If you had a collab that would boost your exposure, like, beyond your wildest dreams, but compromise your artistic integrity, what would you do?
Can I go first?
I think I can.
Hi, outsiders, long time.
I was going to message you soon, because I'm coming to your end soon.
Oh, cool.
Let me know.
Yeah.
So the first question, I am a lawyer.
So with, like, brands and stuff, I always have my contract on lock.
I don't play that game.
I would get my money all the time.
I, like, and there's, again, something about Web3 that makes people anti-contract.
But, like I said, I am a lawyer, so I always ask for a contract.
I like to see everything in fine print.
So with all the brands I've worked with, there has been a very enforceable contract.
I think it's kind of different when it's with artists and, like, the arts with the person I no longer speak to, I really just give it to him.
I'm like, please keep it.
I actually never want to see, like, if it's going to profit, if you're selling it for something, like, congratulations.
I actually won no parts.
Which kind of boils into the second question a bit.
I'm the kind of person that if I don't like something, I don't care if it's making me money or whatever.
I'm not.
Maybe if, you know, it was a hundred ETH or something, then you can buy me.
But it wasn't that serious.
I was just like, whatever you make from it, keep it.
It's not my business.
So, yeah, I think I don't care if something gives me exposure, if, you know, or even if it gives me a bag.
If it doesn't serve me personally, I'm not going to want to do it.
I just feel like the amount of money that people are willing to give their artistic integrity away for is just confusing to me.
Because, again, if it was a hundred ETH, you know, we can start talking about artistic integrity.
But, like, most of the time, it's not even that much money.
Like, people, it's not, you know.
So, if it's, because I feel like one of the reasons I've even been, I guess, quote unquote, successful in this space is because everybody kind of knows where I stand and what I stand for.
And, you know, I always say that I'm not the easiest person to digest.
Like, I guess to a lot of people, I'm quite abrasive.
But I am a genuine person and I feel like it has taken me further than where being easy to digest would have taken me.
So, yeah, I don't care if a collaboration gives me money or exposure.
If it's not something I necessarily deal with, then I would not do it.
So, those are my answers.
I think with contracts in the space, if we're collaborating with other artists, if we're going to list the work in a marketplace, I feel like the smart contracts in most marketplaces are comprehensive enough.
Now, we know that what we're getting into is a sharing formula.
Okay, we're going to split this, you know, 640.
And there's like tools on most marketplaces where that could just, you know, be entered into.
But it's a great point that you, you know, you raised the question because it's not always that simple.
You know, sometimes you'd have to be a little bit more detailed.
There has to be contracts outside of, you know, the provisions of marketplaces.
So, you know, that's a great point.
That's a great thing to note.
On the second question, I've never, I don't think that if you seek exposure, if I'm seeking exposure, I would want the exposure to expose the real me.
So, if I compromise myself to seek exposure into and then expose something that I could not expose a certain image or expose a person I am not, I feel like that's already, that's self detrimental.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's weirdly detrimental.
Yes, in the moment, you could make money off of it, but for how long, like, you know, at what costs, you know, so I don't think that I would go for it.
You know, I don't think that I would personally want to compromise that.
But that being said, I feel like maybe sometimes, it could just, it could be the dynamic of going, like, I don't, I don't kick against anybody chasing a bag, you know.
But if I am aware that I'm doing this just to chase a bag, I don't, I probably would do it, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't put my heart through that.
But, you know, I haven't had a, I'm just speaking hypotheticals, I haven't really had a situation where I have to face this, you know, so I don't know about, I'm just thinking that, you know, sometimes you could say, okay, I'm just chasing a bag.
And this is what this is, but at what cost, you know, it all still comes back to you, at what cost, like, how, how can you separate that when you, you know, lose your integrity or your artistic integrity for some, like, how do you keep up with that?
Because one of the hardest things, as an artist, is not being true to yourself, you can feel yourself literally suffering, you know, and so it compromises, like, everything, it's, it's like, it's a hole that keeps on digging itself.
So, so I, I don't know if you would want to do that to yourself, you know, I don't think that I would want to put myself through that.
I don't know how much money could be worth that, you know, but you never, you never know, you never really know, though.
It is what it is, but, yeah.
Thank, thank you so much, both of you, for answering my question, and thanks for having me up here, Josh.
You encourage, just shoot me a message whenever.
Have a great one, everyone.
Yeah, thank you so much for, everyone for hanging out and listening and participating, and thank you for the art that you make in Korea and, and Cosmic Bagels, and thank you, Aisha from Creatorhood.
And, yeah, hopefully, lots of people listen to the replay, because I think there's some really great, really honest input here on, on how to collaborate here in the space and, and how to continue to set boundaries and be you and an authentic for, for the work that you produce.
So, everyone have a great evening, and thanks again for tuning in.
