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Web3 consumer apps 🔥- Powered by Pyth & Solcasino.io
Recorded: March 26, 2025 Duration: 2:38:04Space Recording
Short Summary
The transcript covers a wide range of topics in the crypto space, including project launches, token sales, and fundraising efforts. It highlights trends such as the growing interest in Deepen and AI, as well as the challenges of building Web3 consumer products. Innovations in blockchain technology, such as the development of decentralized telecom networks and the integration of voice assistants in Web3 platforms, are also discussed. The transcript emphasizes the importance of user-friendly applications and the potential for crypto to provide financial services to underserved populations.
Full Transcription
I'm going to be.
I'm going to be.
And I'm going to be.
And I'm going to be.
And so, you know,
and I'm going to be.
And so.
I'm going to be.
I'm going to be
I'm going to be
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the same
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Yo, yo, yo, what's up everybody?
How's it going?
GM, GM.
What's popping over here?
The old spaces broke.
The old spaces link broke, so I had to...
I just spin up this new one over here.
Oh, bro, I was going to say, I've been like, I thought a set reminder.
I thought I'd been tripping and then, God, man, I thought I was made those all over.
I'm glad I'm glad it's, glad it's both of at least.
Yeah, 100% bro.
It's super, super annoying with this spaces link sometimes when it, you know, when it breaks down, it gets a bit crazy.
But right X-Spaces is so broken right now.
Bro.
It's insane.
Elon's got to stop tweeting about politics and get back to fixing shit and building shit.
Yeah, real. Less rockets, better connection on spaces.
So I think that would make the world a better place, right?
Amen, amen. How are we doing? How's everyone doing over here?
Folks, let's get a retweet for this broken spaces.
We gotta let all the other folks know that we are live and the spaces is popping.
Yeah, even the music that was playing from your microphone was super distorted as well.
It was weird.
Really?
Hey, bro, I thought that was normal. I don't know, I was chilling.
But how are we all doing today? How was the weekend? What are the plans looking like for this week?
Good boss. Good over here anyway. I mean, the UK is sunny today at least. So I'm happy. Everything's good. Sorry, it's already humped there, right? So yeah, we're feeling good. I mean, I kind of hope the market bottomed, but I don't ever want to say that. So yeah, don't listen to this recording.
Yeah, man, the markets are an interesting spot over here.
I don't know what's going to happen, but I do know one thing.
The tariffs are coming April 2nd to a theater's near year.
So, you know, don't get your hopes up.
I'm still holding some liquid, like, stables and whatnot to see how this plays out.
Obviously, the market started pumping hard on Monday or Sunday when Trump said that he was going to be chilling a bit and reducing, like being more specific and targeted towards tariffs across the world.
So, you know, that's obviously an interesting situation.
But...
He didn't say he was going to stop the tariffs.
So tariffs are still on.
It's going to be, it's definitely not going to be a fun beginning of April.
Once that, you know, subsides, then we can probably see some upside.
But, you know, until then, it's going to be, it's going to be rough.
We're in a really interesting situation here because, realistically, you know, as everyone knows, like summertime, like once June, July hits,
Like July, August is usually the lowest volume months for all traditional markets and crypto.
So it's a weird time right now because this is usually the period where, you know, things are pumping.
You know, January, I mean, like usually January, March, April, May.
And then, you know, the saying goes like...
you know, take your profits and walk away in May.
But, you know, there's no profits to take.
Like, I don't think there's any, anyone's got any profits to take with their boy Trump just decimating the market.
So we'll see if this ends up, you know, settling in April.
But I don't know.
I'm not going to hold my breath.
April, May, I'm hoping this thing starts settling down the first half of the year, and then we should be in for a good pump in the second half.
But until then, there will be pain in volatility.
What was that term that people would use in previous cycles?
Was it sell in May, by in July?
Was that is that is that right?
Yeah, it's like selling me and walk away that that's what I remember
But usually like August is a really good good time to to be picking things up in the markets and
because August is, you know, like volume is still low.
There's a lot of deals, quote-unquote, deals to be to be had.
And, you know, September going to the end of the year usually is a pretty good time.
We're in a really weird year because this is the, you know, this is the year that usually that happening,
we get the halving pump, right?
Like the Bitcoin halving, it has an initial pump,
and then it usually dumps, consolidates.
And the year after is when we get the real exciting pump and whatnot.
But this year has been obviously a different anomaly of a year.
It's not actually the case.
And we also have the BTC ETF, so
I don't know guys I'm curious to hear other people's takes on this I don't want to be holding the
Mike the whole time and then also sent a few requests if you guys want to jump up here feel free to send a request as you guys know the first
30 to 45 minutes, we're just hanging out, chatting about the markets, chatting about, you know, general life sentiment, news and all that good stuff.
And then the second part of the show will be deep diving into some of the guests and projects, products on the show, going over consumer apps today.
So today's theme is specifically focused on consumer apps.
So we will be going over a lot of trends on that side.
But yeah, folks, if you guys haven't done so, let's get some retweets going here.
We got like 60, 70 people here, and we got 10 retweets.
So don't be shy.
It literally costs you guys nothing to do a retweet.
Do a retweet.
Share some love.
Let's spread the spaces and let the people know what's up.
What's popping, guys?
How's it going, Shiva's.
What's up?
What's up?
It's been a bit, man.
Lots of friends on this stage once again.
I wish I could speak to you guys soon, like more often, but yeah, sadly, not that much time these days.
But doing good, doing good.
How are you?
Love it bro. I love it. Yeah, it's been a minute, bro. It's been a while since we spoke and it's been a while since we had you
On this basis. So you know things we get bro. You know we grinding making things happen
Trying to you know keep the the water running while you know Trump try it tries to destroy the world
So you know we owe here but the market is quite interesting. I mean
I don't know.
If I look at Bitcoin right now, right?
And even Solana, still sitting at like almost a 15x, like 20x maybe even from bottoms.
and eat also right like eat not that much um eat actually not that much but btc and soul and things like
suey and stuff are still pretty okay i would say it feels like the sentiment is worse than the price
somehow i don't know if you understand what i mean but that's sort of the feeling i get yeah the main
the main thing is um
The macro projects, right, like the ones that you just mentioned, the ones that in one way or
another transcend like across, like outside of the core blockchain ecosystem and community,
those have definitely held up and done well, right?
A lot of the retail normies, you know, Wall Street plus like the
the Reddit Warriors and the Robin Hood Warriors, all those folks got into a lot of these and,
and, you know, that has still held up.
All the all coins on the other hand, the things that most of the folks probably on this basis have invested in are down like 90 to 99%.
So that's why the crypto Twitter sentiment is absolutely cooked.
I think it has to do with Bitcoin dominance.
So I've been looking at the dominance chart constantly.
And I just don't see it budge down to like previous areas when we had all coin rallies, right?
And I think maybe that's just the way the market is that it's more institutional right now.
And therefore, there's no need essentially to lose Bitcoin dominance.
So dominance will stay.
And then you have like dilution on everything that is altcoin, right?
Because you have more layer twos.
You have more layer ones.
You have all these other projects.
Like there's just dilution on on that altcoin side while Bitcoin stays with their dominance.
And then liquidity wise, you're going to have way more liquidity spread over smaller things.
And I think that's what you're seeing.
And that's what everybody's feeling because we're just not Bitcoin packed enough, like you said.
And maybe that's also where we have to learn that investing like we did in previous cycles
will not work for the future anymore.
Well, in the bear market, we wanted exit liquidity so bad, an institution so bad that now that they have all our bags, they are controlling the price.
So now we just have to live with it, you know?
So we had a good 72 hour bull run.
Hopefully you guys took some profits.
And let's see how this rocky road goes for the next little while.
that's it. These bull runs that usually lasted like one to two years now, you know, just running for 72 hours.
It's, you know, the complete pump fun mania, right? Like, you just pump it and you dump it.
That's just the state of the general markets right now.
Yeah, Trump is the dev that nobody asked for that we got.
I do think we're seeing some changes.
I think Game-Gamify is getting more interesting again.
Definitely seeing a sort of a shift in momentum and sentiment towards gamified projects.
And also their tokens, mainly on the eat side, right, with the carrot and then with pirate,
and then a few followers coming there from Ronin chain.
So I think there's some shift, but
Yeah, maybe just won't get back to what we're used.
I also feel like looking at the way you often do your analysis, right, you use a certain sample size to have prediction models.
But the sample size that we use is like two to three cycles.
So we're essentially having a sample size of three max.
It's just not enough to run a prediction model on.
So we keep assuming that, okay, this is going to repeat itself based on previous cycles.
But the data that we have that to assume that those cycles are sort of regular and that they will be repetitive is not enough, right?
Like this...
So maybe it's just everything is just different.
I think everything changed.
Everything.
The way that markets respond to certain things change, the interest changed.
I'm not even sure if we're going to see like a alt coin rally in the sense of all the other shitty alt coins and whether they will ever see a return again.
Or that is just memes, games, AI, like different small cycles with BTC being like the main dominator and pulling through and keeping like I said their BTC dominance hitting 150, maybe even more while everything else will just do what it does.
Yeah, this bull run is very, very, very different.
Like to your point, like we can't use historical like exact references anymore because the whole script has been flipped.
It's very different now.
The ETFs play a completely, you know, a pretty big factor in how things have shifted.
And I definitely agree with you.
Like there is a world where, you know, and we've talked about this here, like on the
spaces like multiple times like over the last like year that there is a world where Bitcoin
just outperforms everything and, you know, maybe the measures follow, but everything else kind
of gets left behind.
But I guess on an optimistic note, I do also think this is probably better for the ecosystem, right?
Liquidity is now more scarce.
Individuals and investors are a lot more like careful and a lot more skeptical, right?
You're not just like, you know, aping into every like, you know, you know,
like shik coin that's out there right like you're you're taking a bit more due diligence here
there's been a quote-to-call like flight to quality and we've seen that over the last you know
couple of weeks even though the markets have taken a dip we see a flight to reality so i think
i think that trend's going to continue i think in in the grander scheme of scheme of things
it is a depressing in the short term but um in
The end scheme of things, I think this will be better for individuals, right?
Like us as investors, nobody choosing, you know, where we want to put into invest our money.
And hopefully that will result in better gains across the board.
This is a competition for the product as well.
Yeah, I think just to go off your point there as well, like I think it has to as well.
We got to a point where Pump Fun kind of showed the world that anyone can launch anything
and say it's anything with a frictionless platform like that.
So the flight to quality was quite aggressive for people in the first cycle like me.
I got quite confused about what hell was going on.
And yeah, your other point about how liquidity is becoming more concentrated.
I mean, we're seeing it on Solana, like, I'll just say it because they're studier as well with
self-flare, like we're seeing it with wallets, protocols, like Jupiter.
We're all innovating to create a better place.
So yeah, you want to create a place where your liquidity needs to go, right, rather than
fragmented across all these other places.
Like, that being said, like, I'll just throw a wrench here.
ridiculous amount of liquidity is still going into the trenches, for lack of better words.
Like, I just don't get it.
I think just looking forward, even if the scarcity is good in a sense,
like I think when genuine teams that are our building that are looking for money,
we'll probably will never see the day of the same amount of inflows that they could have got back in, like, the previous cycle.
just because of, you know, either being burnt by, you know, utility roadmap and all that stuff.
And or is just going to the shiny bright object that is just getting crazy amount of volume,
which is the meme coin space, which I don't think it's going to end anytime soon.
So it's just like I just look at it as it really sucks that.
genuine teams will never see an adequate amount of money.
And even when they do, they literally have to be extremely diligent with the money they do raise that they do have.
which is kind of good because, you know, like all teams,
they shouldn't have like a fruitful like treasury for them to just like burn their money on.
But like some teams do deserve when they are, you know, scaling to hire the right people
because quality employees do cost quality money.
So one thing I learned, I actually learned is in my periods with BitTap,
Because that was the first time I was that actively working with VCs and working in like a fundraise.
Is that I think aside from retail, so the problem also lies with like VCs and the way that they look at projects and what they want to fund.
I mean, the majority of them are dry as of now, right?
Like they're not deploying capital.
They're doing restructuring.
They're raising for their LPs.
I think only the tier one VCs are still actively deploying.
But then if you look at the metrics that they use to qualify,
where do they deploy capital and what they're looking for?
You saw a real shift from them looking at things that I would say have a bit more sustainability
or long-term profits versus like short-term multiple Xs.
I had so many calls with VCs where they...
They literally say it out loud, like, okay, how can we get a 10x or a 20x on your token?
Because this is sort of what we need to know.
Because we're going to put our funds either into your project or we're going to go for something AI or something meme.
And we know we're going to get our multiples there.
So that's what you're competing with.
And even if your business is more sustainable and the returns are decent over a longer period of time or good over a longer period of time, it's still not competitive enough with, yeah, the things that they can invest in these days.
So the way that institutions invest, the way the fees invests.
Everything changed with this meme hype and this AI hype.
Because also the AI hype was completely overblown, right?
Let's be honest, you have all these fucking AI bots on Twitter that randomly spam shit that people can ask questions to, right?
And I don't think any of them has like real value or anything.
People use it like chat GPT and stuff.
People use, but all those random Twitter AI bots that we saw launch one after the other, there's nothing there.
There was no reason for them to have like a hundred of millions dollars of market cap or even two million.
But it was all sort of a pump and dumb narratives, right?
fees not just retail
retail follows narratives
follows memes follows
whatever is hot
and wherever they can make
multiple axes
but feces do the same now
and they do it also
because the previous investments
that they did were not that
good
Great. I mean, I think for the majority of people that invest into anything, right, like crypto, you can, you can agree here that investing in 2024, 2003, man, those tickets did not do well.
Yeah, right. The VC game has not been too great and funny enough as...
I was chatting with a friend of mine who's like a director of finance at Rumble.
And, you know, Rumbos like kind of getting into the crypto game.
They have a strategic investment from Tether, and they picked up, you know, a Bitcoin
Reserve.
Like, they're trying to pick up that as well.
So, like, there's a few things happening over there.
And he was telling me how, in his opinion, like, even in the crypto space, he's just
like the VC landscape is getting very difficult.
And there might not be a future for VCs, you know, potentially in the long run.
I mean, that's obviously a huge statement.
There's obviously going to be, like there's always going to be need for capital deployers, and VCs definitely have a role to play for that.
But I do think even for them, it's become very, very difficult.
Like, I've been a pretty active angel investor, like, since 2016, 2017, like, deployed over 50 checks in companies.
And I've become very hesitant.
with writing checks and I've been very selective because to Shiva's point,
like I've had very little exits from investments I've made over the last bit.
The best exits I've had were actually from investments I made in the bear market.
So anything that I did right after FTCS,
even a bit before FDX, those have done really well.
Like I was an advisor and angel investor in Heliopay.
They get acquired by MoonPay, which was great.
I was an angel investor in TensorFlow.
That was a good ROI.
And there's a few that I expect to do well over the years.
But to definitely agree to your point, like, and those are the hard times, right?
Like investing right after FTCS, that's when everyone had no liquidity.
You know, even VCs, a lot of VCs got wiped during that period because of FDX.
So it's not like, it's become very, very hard.
We're in hard mode now.
But, Shiva, to your point on the AI stuff, I definitely agree with you, 90% of the AI
narrative and AI bots and AI projects that are out there are complete like grifts, like scams.
But there is definitely a few that I think are very, very exciting and
are building real tech that I'm really much looking forward to.
To your point, like they are,
these guys are building the chat GBT's of Web 3 automation,
you know, the, the Gemini's of the space,
the clods of the space.
There's definitely exciting things happening there and I think the AI narrative will continue, but it's going to be a lot more to our points earlier, a lot more selective where it's going to be focused on real tech.
And if you guys are interested in like what that looks like, look into the category D-F-A-D-E-F-A-I.
That's like the category that I think is going to be a banger for the space or for the sector.
I'll have a deeper look, but those ones that you're mentioning, they're definitely not launching on your random pump.funk or whatever basis protocol.
So some of them have, like some of them have done like fair launches with tokens, even though like their VC backed and whatnot.
But some of them have like, because there's this framework model where like these.
these companies are building frameworks and then the new products that build are using those frameworks
and they're launching off of those frameworks.
So it almost ends up being like you don't need pumped off on those framework AI companies
are the ones that are the launchers.
So projects will be launching on their framework and their launch pad or whatever it is.
So to your point, yeah, that's definitely a shift.
But I think the issue is there's been too many of those frameworks.
that, you know, are not actually doing too many exciting things, right?
They're all like, quote unquote duplicate frameworks.
And, you know, the issue with frameworks is, I'm trying to get a nice analogy over here.
But if there's traffic in front of you and you're driving a sports car, it doesn't
matter if you're driving a sports car.
You're still driving the speed of traffic, right?
Even though your capabilities are that you can rip it zero to 60 in like two seconds and you know you can go 150 miles per hour
If there's traffic in front of you you're stuck. It doesn't matter
So that's the analogy for frameworks where
There are frameworks that companies used to build up their AI
Protocols and AI products, but if the framework is not advanced enough you're stuck. You can't do anything and
So that's actually a negative that's happening right now.
So there's certain projects that are building their own framework and building on top of their own system.
And those are the ones that I'm most bullish on.
And one of those projects is actually Orbit who will be here later today.
Plus, there was a lot of, on crypto especially, like, there was a lot of frameworks that literally built out a framework to build more frameworks, which is like, like, what's the point, right?
And then, and then they'll create another token to build another framework, which is essentially just becomes like a chatbot.
or a reply guy bought, right?
Or something that just like skims the,
the blockchain, which is all easy, like copy and paste.
I mean, I'm not a dev, but if somebody's already created,
you could just copy and paste, change a few lines,
and it just does the same thing, but with the new skin on it, right?
And that's what we saw a lot of,
that sadly took a lot of liquidity out and mine share.
So, yeah, so, so yeah, so that's, that's a,
that's a quick rundown on the AI side of things.
What else is exciting for you guys?
I know we got a bunch of other guests up here.
Mr. Unique, Icon, Who's bigger crypto?
Mace Nassali.
Like, what's up, guys?
Hey, guys.
I don't know.
Can I chill what I've been working on a little bit because it's pretty innovative?
No, this is not the project shilling time.
This is like us just, you know, chatting about the markets, you know, doing the good things.
But if you stick around later, we have a, we do have a consumer product like segment.
If there's space, we can definitely bring you up there.
But if now we can definitely chat about on, you know, offline to bring you on.
Makes sense, man.
Makes total sense.
All right.
So I won't.
I won't say the exciting thing I've been working on, but on the other hand, maybe one point
you guys have not mentioned, which is the fact that we do have a lot of that's, we have a lot of
apps on Solana. But I think one main issue is that they do not work for in their, like they
don't work together. There's no APIs. You can't access those apps. So each time, so for example,
I'm a big fan of famous foxes, as you can see from my PFP. I'm a founder, I'm working on a project
I'm trying to create like an Ft swap.
So basically I'm going to need to recreate it from scratch.
Although famous Fox have already done the work,
they have already done the coding.
I don't mind that they take their own fees or whatever they are,
but there's no access to adapts that were previously built.
So every new founder is going to have to code things from scratch again.
And that sucks.
Aren't there like API integration that you can use to cover this?
I'm pretty sure there should be.
Not everybody open sources their code, right?
So some of them wants to continue keeping their fees to themselves, so they have a close source.
So yeah, that's fair.
For example, for famous foxes, there's no API for Drip,
Drip specifically, which is like the main hub for a lot of artists on Solana,
they have no API.
I did tweet to like Vibu, like, hey, is there an API?
He told me everything is on chain, we don't need it.
But we kind of do.
Like, why would I?
Like, they're kind of forcing me to be in a competition with DRIP instead of using their own API, right?
Don't think that's the way to go.
Well, you bring up a good point over here.
Not specifically on the product side, but specifically on the NFT side.
You just reminded me about NFTs, which I haven't thought about in a long time.
So, you know, what do you guys think about NFTs right now?
Man, you know, I'm multi-chain.
Bless us, blessings kings and queens.
Man, I'm happy to be here.
Long time don't see Crypto Well.
I'm actually driving.
I'm in my truck, but, you know, I have to come in, man.
I love to get wisdom.
Basically, it's like sometimes been the smartest person in the room.
So I love to come in here and pick you guys' brains.
I love it here.
But, man, with NFTs, you know, I'm multi-chain.
I love my salina.
I love my Bitcoin as king.
You know that, but...
A chain has been doing some things, man.
Got some nice movement and spotlight.
So might want to check and see what they got going on over there.
And if T's on the Modnet TestNet are doing pretty well as well,
it's very akin to like the early Salon of days.
Obviously it's TestNet, so no real value.
But if you guys have been tracking any of that, it's been getting pretty good volumes.
Yeah, I just want to say, like, on a personal level, I've been like with the mad lads, they've got me a good few collapse, and I don't know if it's because it's TestNet, and obviously it's all fake, but everyone's holding, the vibes are good, but we'll see what happens when mainnet comes out, because, yeah, God, I bet when it will turn into PPP again, that's one's good off.
I think NFTs in general are doing pretty well, right?
I mean...
you add the mint on ordinals with taproo wizards you see punks are doing pretty well on eat which is always a
strong indicator for that liquidity flowing down you saw that flowing down to board apes going from
10 to 15 eat so i think overall it's pretty good and then one of the other things is that reach uh reach network
It's like a KOL agency sort of.
And it has quite a few of the large eat KOLs in there, the ones that are active right now.
And most of them are, I would say, NFT fans.
So I'm expecting that they will post a lot more NFT focused content from different clients that they'll be working for.
And that will just drive the NFT attention more and more over time.
I'm not sure how long it will last, but I think we'll see something there.
I do think you have to be careful for the same thing, right?
Because attention is always created from a certain point and it's never really organic.
And those who will jump in for us will also profit the most.
And it will still be the same influencer sort of.
Pump, right?
But yeah, at least it's better than memes.
What's your take on like NFTs?
Like, are we going to get a profile picture run?
Are they going to have some sort of utility?
You know, are we going to breed them again and stuff?
Or like, is it just so different again?
I'll answer this one of the sweat real quick as a joke.
I'm one of the biggest, like, NFT guys out here, you know?
And look at my PFP. It does not exist on chain.
And that should give you a pretty good indicator of how I feel about NFTs right now.
Man just down bad roasting, roasting his bags as well.
Yeah, I think Legend holds a lot of NFTs that he bought based on my shields.
And they're all worthless right now.
I can honestly say you, tell you right now that NFTs are like bullshit generally.
Yeah.
Sorry, legend.
I wish we came to this conclusion sooner.
But both of us had to suffer together.
So I apologize.
But yeah, no, my new thought on NFTs is just the majority of it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Like nothing about it makes sense.
There's literally no world.
Like, imagine the concept of how difficult is it to raise a million dollars, right?
Just think about this for a second.
How difficult is it to raise a million dollars in real life?
Like, how many investors do you need to speak to?
What stage does your product need to be in?
What is it that you need to show that you are capable of delivering, right?
Right.
And then compare how easy it is to raise money with NFTs.
I mean, I know because I did it for a lot of founders.
And then that gap is so big.
So generally, the majority of founders, like they celebrate when they mint out,
which is essentially the start of your journey and at the end.
But a lot of them celebrate at that point.
Additionally to that, there is simply no model set in advance that will allow them to grow.
Like they have no clue.
how they're going to make it sustainable.
They have no clue how they're going to generate revenue.
They have no clue how they're going to go through a distribution model of a one-to-one holder base
or something that at least creates collectible value or relates to like having more buyer or more demand,
right, than selling pressure because
Supply never matches the amount of holders.
Like if you go, like back in the days, it was like 3,000 holders on a 10K project.
I think now it's like 1,500 holders on a 10K project average.
And there's just nothing there.
We're like giving these guys like a shitload of money.
We say, here you go.
Here's a million dollars.
Here's $2 million.
And there's no way for them to ever turn that 2 million into 10 million or 20 million when it comes and making sure that it comes back to us.
Yes, there are some exceptions.
But I think this is generally the truth about NFTs that we should acknowledge.
Just consider them like meme coins with a picture on it that have a longer sill cycle.
Yeah.
allowing more users to get in and out over time,
to have some sort of a small community that's attached to it.
Like that entire dream of 2021 NFTs,
where you had like the first cycle coming up, right,
after punks and after apes.
It will never go back to that. It was new. There was nothing else. There wasn't that much defy. There wasn't that much of anything else.
Man, people were happy to spend time in the Discord together, doing all sorts of random things with the community, spending time in voice chats.
Like, they were looking forward to the next mint. There weren't, there wasn't like 100 mince a day on 100 different launch pads that everybody was just buying to flip.
It was such a different market and there was so much enthusiasm because it was a new thing.
Now it's an old thing.
It's worn.
It's worn and tern.
And yeah, it's just, it's just not what it was.
And it won't be that ever again.
I agree that the hype is not around from 2021.
But there are still your point on discords that are quite active and...
with members like actively hunting for opportunities.
So there still are communities out there that are still extremely active and are doing great things.
So what I've been doing in this like NFT bear is looking for communities where there are active communities, there are founders actively pushing for their communities and trying to find these dimes in the dust and buying at least one NFT from these communities and just getting involved and getting to know the teams and seeing what they're working on.
So one that I bought recently, I recently tweeted about it, was Middardau.
So they found that Gianluca has been super active for the last three years and has never
disappeared.
The guy I think works a full-time job, but he's always working for his community, working
on different verticals, different products that they can build, and also working on revenue
generating opportunities for his community.
He worked on some strategy for liquidity, providing liquidity on Meteora.
So they had like a little...
LP and they were generating revenue through various strategies for their community members.
He does like sports betting syndicates.
He helps generate funds that way for his community.
And he's always looking for opportunities to bring value to his holders.
So yeah, he's also a big supporter of MCA.
So I thought I'd enter that community.
And it's being great.
That was super welcoming.
But there are a few other projects out there.
that are similar that are still extremely active.
And not all of them have a huge treasury like Monkey Dow,
but Monkey Dale is another good one that still puts on regular weekly, monthly events
for their community members globally.
So they've got different chapters across the globe.
They've got Monkey Ventures where, you know,
if you have a Gen 2 or a Gen 3, you can participate in private deals,
and that's a pretty active community as well.
The thugbirds are still around.
Like that community is still super active.
I noticed pesky penguins even has been tweeting recently.
Okay bears, like those guys are still around,
not what they were back in 2022,
but they're still active.
They're still doing things.
So yeah, there are dimes in the dust.
Yeah.
And you can pick up really, like you can pick up NFTs from really good communities at a fraction of the price that you would have paid back in 2023, 2022, 2021.
And I think it's worth having a shop if you're looking to meet new people network and get involved with some of these communities.
Because I think a lot of us are probably missing that, right?
Yeah, I think networking is fair. But monkeys are 2021 also, right? So they're sort of the exception. I don't think they can be counted as the newer group. The other group you spoke about, I don't know how big their NFT collection is and what they're going to. And then if you look at, I mean, okay bears and stuff, man, if you look at the amount of capital that they have versus what they did with it.
I don't think there's any traditional company where that would fly, right?
Like where that would be like we accept that that is the norm.
We're like okay with okay bears doing a little bit going down from hundreds of soul to whatever the fuck it might be right now.
With a founder that is, I don't know, I don't even want to start on that part.
But yeah, we accept that as sort of a norm, but it's actually fucking outrageous.
It's literally fucking scandalous.
That's it.
Well, I'll tell you this.
I guess I have a few questions, but I'll tell you this.
The part of the NFTs that has stuck around is when I look at this audience of, you know, 80 plus, 85 plus people or so.
I see all of them have PFPs.
So that's the one thing that stuck around.
You know, either those folks are just, you know, holding the bag and, you know, don't want to sell it.
Or they are, you know, they're advid community members and supporters.
So that's definitely an interesting part.
I guess another question for you guys, do you guys think NFTs?
And I know I've shifted this from like Alpha to now like talk about NFTs because, you know, why not?
You know, not many folks are showing love to NFTs these days, and, you know, Shiva said the NFT resurgence is happening, so let's talk about it.
Do you guys think there's going to be like multi-100,000 or million dollar mince happening ever again?
Yesterday.
Yes, yeah, with Taproot Wizards, right?
How much did they raise, legend?
I believe close to 30 Bell.
I mean, Perra, minted 2 mil, final bozu minted, I think 1.5 or something.
So those were three mince yesterday.
But for these, so I'm talking like non-utility type NFTs, right?
Because we know Mega-Eath was raising like 1-Eat at like whatever like whatever NFTs,
but each one of those guys were actually just getting coming in as like VC investors with token allocation.
Curiously, here some of these other, you know, situations that happen.
Yeah, I think it will.
Like, even I was on a spaces last week and people, weirdly, they just want, like, a good project that genuinely promises nothing, right?
And that actually ends up doing something.
Like, people are actually, like, leaning towards that.
And they were even comparing, like, punks, even apes back in the day.
Like when they were minting out much as a lot of these guys did have some VC backing like the whole premise like they just didn't like say that this is what we're doing
This is what you'll get like they just did stuff right and I think people are leaning in that direction so I
Sooner or later, that will happen.
But I also found that in the NFT space, most of it is just all, like, inorganic.
Like, you're never going to get, like, a genuine, like, you know, like, I think the last one that I could genuinely think of that was, like, organic is probably, like, the clean element.
Right.
where everybody just wanted the white list.
They couldn't because they just were pretty strict with the process, right?
And I haven't seen like a mint like that in some time.
That wasn't just like strictly is just like everything else that has been just hype
that is like, you know, controlled by a lot of these like Dow's
or a lot of these like KOLs that are pushing it.
So we'll see you.
I mean, apart from Clernosaurs and then, well, Mad Lads as well, that was one personally admitted, didn't expect anything from it and just received like this, yeah, received crazy stuff.
So, but apart from that, everything's been underwhelming, man.
Mad lads you at least knew it was Armani, there was a huge project behind it, there's a lot of money, he's a competent guy.
I mean, that's kind of a different situation, I think.
Yeah, true. No, you do have a point, but we also had concerns about how the NFT collection was going to link to everything that he was going to create as well.
So yeah, but at least you still have them founders to believe in from the start, right?
What is CapRutes, Wizards, what is the dream they're selling?
Something regarding like a thing called OpCat.
I don't know the full details of it.
But yeah, they, like, I think at this point they're close to over $100 million raised with their first cat collection.
And then I believe they had between, I don't know the exact number, I believe close to $60 million in VC funding.
And then the new taproot collection raised close to 30 mil altogether.
So a lot of money, but I don't know what the Opcad stuff is.
I generally haven't looked into it.
Insane.
That's crazy how much money.
Yeah, and having genuinely delivered anything from what I've saw on the timeline.
But it is, but apparently Udi is building something.
So it could be another frank situation.
Who knows?
From my understanding, it's supposed to be like another one of these, like not necessarily layer twos, but, you know, what are these like protocols that these guys are building so they can enable Bitcoin.
So that.
Yeah, but what is the NFT?
What does the NFT actually get?
What are they promising to the NFT holders, if anything?
An air drop probably.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's like going forward, I mean, like what has succeeded over the last year?
It's like NFTs that were strongly linked to projects or like founders that are already in the space building big projects where people think, hey, maybe I'll get...
some sort of airdrop or access to something, right?
And there's, you know, outside of that, I think it's going to be a super tough sell.
But maybe there's room for a couple of things.
We need someone like, you need someone like Frank to come in and really just wow everyone, right?
If it's not going to be something like a big project founder or an L2 founder or whatever it is,
where you're getting in and just like hoping that you're going to get some big airdrops.
We need some monster to come in space and really get people riled up.
I don't know about that one, bro.
I think monsters have performed terrible, generally in the past.
Like, the bigger they were, the worst they performed.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know. I'm not saying we should do it.
I'm just saying that, you know, we, I'm saying this, you know, ecosystem may be tricked by someone as powerful as Frank, but it would take that level of, you know, social acuity and, like, prowess to do it, right?
Like a Frank level person to do it. Otherwise, everyone will just ignore it, I think.
I think we just got to double down on the fucking bags that we have, right?
Stop buying all sorts of random new shit.
I mean, we can pump all the bags that we have and everybody's going to be happy because
everybody can exit and, you know, hold and buy in and that proven teams that have been around
for quite a bit.
Like, imagine if everybody just starts buying monkeys, right?
And monkeys go up and...
they have like a premium price again like i think that would be good um the same applies to a few of those
eat projects i think i don't really see why we need more unless it adds like a unique value
like kaito for instance releasing nfts that are attached to that protocol that much i can see but
yeah do you need another ip collection do you need another this and another that well well
have you heard about oh um you guys know who oexquit is
He just created shadows for ape chains.
So if you have like a crypto pong, if you have a board ape or anything like that,
you're able to like basically use it as a shadow, make a shadow out of it
and delegate it to whichever chain you wanted to have it on.
So your NFT project doesn't necessarily have to live on one chain.
It can basically jump to jump.
And then if you choose to, you can bridge it to whatever chain that you feel or want to call home.
Blah.
I think the best one that I've seen so far, they actually just didn't raise.
But like they built a pretty strong community.
I think there could be like a two-part type of like a race for a project is like what Saga monkeys did.
They literally airdropped a bunch of NFTs to all the Saga holders that had the Soulbound token.
And then like obviously the like the founders literally just running the community from royalties and like money out of his own pocket.
But like if you can build a genuine hype like and community behind it and then do a raise like on the side and then actually, you know, get a proper raise done and then, you know, build something out of it.
Like, I think that's how, like, NFT community should, will be, like, the only way that you could genuinely grow an NFT community where, like, it's literally just a free air drop through participation or whatever.
You get genuine interest instead of, you know, people having a leg up, right?
And then asking something up front where you get in the door.
And then obviously, if it's not to your liking, you exit or whatever.
And then once you as a project team and founder have built a community that could actually speak on and your grand vision and then raise afterwards, I think that might be a better way.
I don't know.
What's our thoughts on the DeFi Dungeons guys that are doing it on Monday for $325?
The hype is there. I think it's going to mint out.
You know, the heist game did pretty solid before.
Just, yeah, just don't know how it was to see in long term.
But I think he'll do good.
I haven't seen genuine, like, negative sentiment on the timeline as regards to the price either, like being at 325.
And it's only like 400, I mean, 4,000 NFTs to be minted out since most of it was sold pre-sale.
So I think it'll do good altogether.
Is it a 10K collection?
11K.
Okay.
I mean, it won't be sustainable for a long time, right?
None of the games were, none of the games can be.
It is by default, like, sort of a Ponzi mechanic.
But that's what it's built for.
So I think to a certain extent, it's fine.
It being what it is, because it is what it is and everybody knows what it is.
And it's very will-favored.
I mean, you could see that even in the gold fault and the fact there was no cap.
clearly benefiting larger wallets that make larger deposits to take a majority of the token there.
So I think that's sort of that that's divide dangers.
I think NFT, so you know, good products are built through first principles generally.
So there has to be a problem that you want to solve and,
based on solving that problem, you could think about incorporating an NFT in that process if it adds value, right?
But you still need to maintain like the concept of building from first principles.
And I think that that's where NFTs missed the boat.
And I think where Kaito, for instance, did that well because
They're like, okay, we see a problem in the space.
We want to solve this, right, in the way that attention is driven towards certain things.
We can use NFTs and leverage this to get an initial community that we can then leverage to get exposure for our platform.
And then we can create revenue through the platform and we can redistribute that back to NFTs.
So it's like a problem that got solved from first principles.
It's NFTs that were incorporated into the plan that go full cycle when it comes to value creation for both NFT holders as well as the company.
This logic just lacks.
This is the reason why Degads, in my opinion, filled, like massively, is because they didn't have this logic.
They had like this amazing group of people like die-hard supporters, number one project on Solana, blah, blah, blah.
But no fucking clue what the fuck they were going to do next or what they were going to build once they reached that point.
Yeah, just to make things clear for Defy Dungeons, I think they did that and they saw that what the space needed was a new Ponzi.
And they integrated NFTs into the Ponzi.
It sounds funny, but this space needs some good Ponzi's, right?
We actually do.
And we're all here for it.
We're like, yeah, let's get a new Ponzi going.
It's fun.
and legitimately and in defense of like defyy dungeons and my bags to shivas's point like
they are building on first principles sir like they are solving a problem they saw two problems
in the first two games that they made
And they're trying to solve it on the third one.
And I think if they handle the, you know, sinks and everything right, I think it could, it can, you know, succeed and possibly even do better than the first two, right?
I think that's just how a lot of these games work.
And that's, it's kind of a given expectation.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
But what about that is first principles, right?
I get that they build, they sort of release, and then they improve on what they release, right?
And they get the data and they get the feedback and they make sure they have a better product.
But what about the product comes from a first principle standpoint?
It's a
It's a Ponzi game
We really do want that
Like legit
It sounds like I'm being facetious
But like we need some good fun
Ponzi's in this space
Right like period
Okay that that's fair
If that is like the problem that you're solving
Like there's no fucking Ponzi game
That's legitimately the problem they're solving
Yeah no that's I mean that's fair
There's nothing you can say against that right
Like
We're all sitting here and we're like, yeah, I'm kind of, I'm kind of hyped about, about Deified Dungeons.
Like, yes, I know it's a Ponzi, but it's like, shit, I mean, the price might go up and it's fun.
And, you know, we're all here for it.
We know it's going to zero long term.
But, like, in the interim, we're going to try to outcompete each other and try to make money off each other and use each other as exit liquidity.
And if we don't have things like this, what are we doing?
We're all just, like, sitting around just like jerking off to NFTs or something, right?
We want some good, we want some good ponzi.
To meme coins, my boy.
No, I mean, this is a good point.
This is a, this goes to the point of, or this, uh,
This goes to the point of, like, this is just a human nature.
And I think everyone in this space, the crypto space specifically is heavily overconfident.
mostly because they see a lot of other folks who have made a lot of money in the past.
And so there's like very unrealistic examples and a lot of like, you know, fake examples and a lot of like, quote unquote, like, you know, screenshots on Twitter when really like we know that that's like a copy and paste, right?
Or it's like, you know, like someone's fake wallet or something.
So there's been a lot of these like non-genuine like grifters.
And then there's also like a huge expectation because people have actually made a lot of money in the space.
So I think I think that gives everyone the ability, like thoughts that they're like super confident that they're special.
They're going to fucking kill it.
And so these Ponzi's are exactly like the manifestation of that.
Right, because everyone's almost on the same playing field over here.
I guess unless you're like someone who like buys more NFTs, but you're on the most, for the most part, you're on the same playing field because you got to invest heavy to get those NFTs.
So like even with that, you got to you have to put skin in the game.
And like it's really now people are trying to like just get, you know, get like play with their luck and play with their quote unquote skill sets.
to be able to out-compete and out-maneuver everyone else.
So it's an interesting thought experiment compared to everything else, right?
Like this same mindset is what people use when they're investing in meme coins and, you know,
all kinds of other things.
But the issue with the meme coins is you're always going to be at a disadvantage because
there's always a group of quote-un-un-called Kabal or KOLs or devs or whatever it is on the
other side who are like,
Like, their only purpose is to completely destroy you and take all your money.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's just like, and it's a very unfair advantage because they've already gotten everything
at a significantly cheaper, almost free price while you're buying all this shit up on the secondary
and trying to pump this up.
So it's a very one-sided game versus something now, like in this situation, the Ponzi game that we're talking about, there's a lot more potential, you know, even playing ground to a degree.
Yeah, one way or another, we love games where it's us matching our social acuity versus other people.
It's like, do I understand the landscape of the playing field, all the other players better than other people?
And if so, I can probably make money.
And it's just a matter of fact that 90% of the people kind of misunderstand their asymmetric advantage in the game and they lose, obviously.
It's...
it's a zero-sum game every meme coin that goes up and then goes down it's a zero-sum game and it's just a bunch of
people who don't understand that they do not have an information asymmetry that they thought they did
and that's okay and they lose and then hopefully eventually they stop playing so much and here's another
here's another example of that and maybe the game's a little fairer maybe a little bit
But we need it. We need things like this. We just need the extraction rate to not be extremely high like it was with Kelsior. That's when things get dangerous. Like we're all, we're good with some small extraction rate as we play our Ponzi games and the majority of us lose. That's okay. We need our entertainment or we're all just going to leave, right? We need some sort of entertainment. But it just can't be too fast.
Yeah, 100% or 100%.
But with that said, you know, everything we've been chatting about so far has been, you know, focused on community stuff, meme coins and, you know, quote-unquote ponzi's and whatnot.
But what I'm excited to chat about today is consumer products.
So we got Moonwalk here, we got Carrier 1 here,
we got Mace here, we got a few other projects jumping on.
As you guys know, the first hour of the spaces,
we're just hanging out talking about what's exciting
in the market, just general
trends, alpha, all that good stuff.
In orbit also will be coming on.
But now we're going to do the consumer segment, which I'm excited for because these are real products.
These are real companies.
These are, you know, real team members who are building towards like an actual vision and goal and potential revenues, right?
Like that's what's exciting in this space.
So orbits on here as well.
So I think we got two more guests on this end jumping up.
But yeah, why don't we, what do we start that?
So I'm gonna be shifting some of the speakers in here,
please don't mind, because we gotta make space
for some of these guests.
But yeah, folks, I'm excited.
to chat some exciting innovations here.
Folks, if you guys haven't done so, please retweet the spaces.
Share it with your community.
All the projects up here, please share it with your community as well.
It literally costs $0 to do a retweet.
And, you know, we're talking about some pretty exciting things over here.
And we keep it real, as you guys probably have heard over the last 45 minutes.
So, yeah, share the love.
Let the people know, what's up?
So as we wait for the other projects to jump in here, and I'll have to send them a DM to make sure they're in here.
Carrier 1, do you guys want to jump in with the Carrier 1 account for visibility on your guys brand as well?
And then we'll get some intros going.
Yeah, I think they're on already, to be honest.
I can maybe see if they can request it.
Let me message the marketing guys.
Hell yeah.
Cool, cool. All right. So while we wait for the other guests to jump in here, why don't we get some intros going?
Benny, do you want to start off with the intro since you've been here, you know, tuning in for a minute?
And then we'll go to Mace. Benny, Mace, Moonwalk, and then Orbit.
Yeah, so I'm part of the Carrier 1 co-founding team.
So I'm currently CSO at Carrier 1.
We're actually building on the SIE blockchain.
So I guess SIE and...
move have become a little bit popular over the past year, year and a half or so.
We're a deep end project pretty much focused on telecom, similar to what helium and Xnet are doing,
which I believe are on Solana. But we also are working pretty closely with phone numbers and
bridging phone numbers to Web3. So there's a few things that we're working on right now.
It's called our carrier number system. That pretty much allows you to bridge
any phone number and start using it similar to how you would use a name service.
I guess one of the advantages of using your phone number is you can link it to multiple blockchains or wallet addresses,
which would be a little bit better than how you have the current name systems where they're all ending in like dot sole or dot sui or dot eth,
and you're not necessarily guaranteed to have.
any or have the same one on all of them so kind of like in comparison to cash app or zelle you have
your typical name service and then your number service um and then yeah we have the hardware devices
which we recently just started rolling out um which pretty much focuses on data offloading um
and we're going to be launching our token uh most likely sometime in may so i'll pass it off to one of the
other speakers and then can maybe
Take some questions or come back.
Love it, love it.
Exciting stuff.
We're super excited about, you know, the suey ecosystem and Deepen is also a very interesting area that we think is going to make waves in this coming.
Whatever bull run we can call it.
But yeah, super excited.
Thanks for coming on here.
Mace, jump in there.
Hey everyone, it's Harm for Mase.
We're building effectively the equivalent of Jupiter on Monad.
So currently we are the number one Dex aggregator there.
We're quickly including more and more liquidity sources every day.
So probably by next week, we should have most of the Dex's on-chain integrated.
So feel free to check out Mace.
Let us know, give us feedback on what do you think the swap is like.
We will be sharing some alpha later on during this space as well regarding our NFT that we're launching next week.
So a lot of you may be interested in that.
So we'll share more details there.
But yeah, thanks for having us on, guys.
Love it, love it. That's a huge statement. The Jupiter of Monad. That's bullish. Love it. Love that. Thanks for coming on here.
What about the Titan of Monad? Even better.
Oh, shit. We try to get Titan on here today, but they couldn't make it, but we'll have to bring them on another day for sure.
What's up? What's up, DR7?
What's up? DR7?
Hey man, what's up? So I am particularly interested in what means is building and moonwalk.
So I would send you guys a message. So let's just have a conversation about it and let's see the things we can pull in Africa. Yeah. Thank you.
Cool. Cool. All right. Why don't we get to the intros with the rest of the folks here, Moonwalk and then orbit?
Yeah, thanks for having me.
This is Caitlin.
I'm the director of growth for Moonwalk Fitness.
Moonwalk is a fitness accountability app built on Solana.
that basically is using and gamifying daily step goals to help people form healthy habits that actually last.
We have a lot of BS health and wellness advice out there, but the realistic truth is that moving more every single day is a super powerful life enhancer for your physical health, your mental health.
We're using financial incentives that crypto supports so well.
For good in this case.
So essentially the way Moonwalk works is that you put money on the line, whether that's
USC, Solana, or Bonk to join a step contest.
And if you hit the daily step goal like you say you will, you get all of your money back
at the end of the game.
and the chance to split a prize pool with other winners.
That prize pool is made up of partial deposits from other players in the game who don't
consistently hit their step goals.
So using crypto, using financial incentives to incentivize positive behavior and help
people live healthier, which as you guys know, especially in crypto, people could use
a note to get up from their desk.
Most definitely. I'll be honest like this, I mean, I'm an investor in moonwalks, I'm biased here.
But I'm also very bullish because I've been traveling a lot, you know, for conferences, you know, events, all that meetings and whatnot.
And it's really hard to stay active in terms of like going to the gym and eating healthy. Like, as
As you guys know, every event has free food and free booze.
Like, it's really hard to, you know, stay healthy in the space.
But one of the things that is great is actually walking.
So I make it an effort to walk more when I'm at conferences and event
so that I can at least get my steps in.
And, you know, it seems to be one of the few things that's helping me.
But in general, like, well, I mean, I'm a big, like, you know, health, I guess, advocate.
And a lot of people, I guess maybe a lot of people do know this, but a lot of folks, you know,
focus on, like, starving themselves and going on, like, a bunch of diets and, like, you know,
going to the gym, like, you know, insanely, like, every time, every day or something.
But what really helps with, like, you know, weight loss and, like, staying active in, like,
cardiovascular health and whatnot is really just, like, trying to get, like, six to 10,000
steps a day.
If you can consistently get like, like, 6 to 7, 10,000 steps a day, like you'll automatically
lose weight over a period of time because it's just a compound, it's like compound interest,
right?
Like it's a small thing that become a consistent habit.
That's what ends up creating like the biggest, you know, impact versus like going
all out on like, you know, small sprints and whatnot that are not potentially sustainable over
a long period of time.
And not to saying, you know, a lot of the other stuff are great too, but, you know, this is just some fitness advice from your boy, Crypto8.
But let's jump to orbit.
Hey guys, this is Ryan.
Super excited to be here today.
We're essentially a chat chattisput for Web 3 to help automate on-chain transactions
across 117 blockchains and close to 200 protocols.
So we do a whole bunch of stuff from liquidity provisioning to swaps to bridging.
We're in the D-Fa space or D-Fi space, however you want to say it.
And yeah, super excited to be here.
Love it. Love it. We were actually just chatting about you guys because we were, Shivas was here and he was talking about how most AI projects are, you know, quote unquote, like scammy narrative chatbot. And then, you know, we had to bring up orbit and share what you guys are doing.
But I know we got decaf also in here. So decaf, could you guys request to speak up?
And then we can get you guys to do an intro and then we can get the this AMA spaces started.
So, Decaf, wherever you guys are.
So request to pick up.
And I think we're waiting for an intro from Mace as well.
No, no, Mesa already went.
They went already and, you know, came with that banger, the Jupiter of Monad.
So, you know, we're pumped for that.
Sorry about that Mace.
I missed it.
All good, sir.
Okay, I think we got Scotty.
Is Scotty up here for you guys?
Okay, I'm just...
Man, Spaces is just...
Space is a bit hectic.
Someone who's, you know, in the Department of Dulwich,
please talk to Elon and get the man to focus a bit on the spaces.
They just reduced the Spaces team by about 10 employees,
so it might need some extra time.
Be serious? Oh, my God.
Rest in peace, one AI, boys and girls, one AI.
But to Elon's defense, those 10 employees probably weren't providing much value.
They heard the email of, tell me the top five things you accomplished this week, and it was a wrap after that.
DeKaff, what's up? How's it going, bro?
Scottie.
Hello, hello. How are you guys?
Sorry for joining my, but...
Good, good.
Hey, decaf. Old homies.
Cool.
So I guess should I give a little intro into what Decaf is for those you don't know?
Yes, please.
Yeah, sure. So for those we don't know, decaf is in the payment space.
So essentially we like to call ourselves a non-custodial neobank.
So think of your phantom mixed with Revolut or your phantom mixed with transfer wise.
We're based in Latin America.
So right now I'm joining from Mexico City.
The rest of this, we have five others here in Mexico City too.
And we focus on being able to give people who don't have access to bank accounts.
If you take the Latin American context, for example, 50% of people don't even have access to bank accounts,
you can just simply download decaf.
You can get a US bank account or a European bank account,
receive money as a virtual worker or remittances.
And then you can cash out in 184 countries directly from USC.
So all of a sudden, it's a complete game changer.
You have global cash.
You can also send your bank account at rates that are cheaper than transfer-wise.
And then you have access very soon to, for example, investments,
card coming soon, things like this where it's completely...
non-custodial banking solution, an alternative with great US where fees are paid for, you can earn and invest.
So people that don't have access to bank accounts, all of a sudden, what we're seeing in many regions, such as Colombia, where we have a lot of users that we're not the first crypto app that people use or crypto wallet.
we're the first banking app that they've ever used.
So that's essentially what we do where any,
I don't know if you guys have seen in news lately
that everyone's launching stable coins
and this stable coin space is essentially popping off in terms of
like the Trump's, like the capital is launching their own, the USD-1, and then you have BlackRock launching their own.
And then we're working heavily in the humanitarian aid space for imagine you're an immigrant or a refugee,
you don't even have an ID for the local country.
You can't open a bank account.
You're not even close to your home country, but you can download a crypto wallet, receive aid, cash it out in every country that you happen to be at.
So all of a sudden, it's a complete game changer for these people.
And we're seeing it more and more this year.
I don't know if you just saw the news as well lately that,
obviously they canceled a lot of the payments from USAID,
but Donald Trump is suggesting that all of it has to now be sent on-chain.
So we're kind of in this space working with NGOs, non-government organizations,
digital nomads.
All these people that haven't been banks or as well, just myself, I get paid my salary in decath in crypto and then I get cashed out in Mexico, my bank account in Australia, so on and so forth.
But yeah, that's the medium version of what we do.
Yeah, super exciting.
Love what you guys do.
And I just wanted to share a story on how I was onboarded to decath.
So I was in Paris for NFT Paris in 2024.
I had an issue with my bank card, couldn't get access to cash,
downloaded the decuff app and went to Moneygram and I was able to take out some cash.
So yeah, you guys came to my savior last year in NFT Paris.
So thanks for that.
Amazing to hear. We've heard a couple of stories of this that like people getting like say robbed or lose their wallet and then all of a sudden at least you have your phone or you can log in with someone else's phone and get a reference code and cash out from your crypto.
It's a lot of cases, in some cases we've been saving lives we've heard. So it's good to hear another great story for it. Yeah.
Love it, man. Love it. Really, really exciting. We got a we had a very
you know, interesting plethora of projects over here.
Like, the one thing you guys have in common is that you guys are a Web3 consumer app.
So we're going to be asking some general questions on just web 3 consumer apps, consumer products, you know, get you guys take on this.
And then we'll go into some deeper dive questions, you know, for each one of you guys and, you know, dive into exactly what you guys are building.
And then we'll wrap the spaces up with what's coming up next for you guys and, you know, all that good stuff.
To start with, you know, let us know, like, what is the difficulties of building Web3 consumer products in the space?
Like, what are some of the challenges you guys have faced doing so?
Like, what are some of the, you know, tips you would give to the audience from your experience?
Yeah, for sure. I can kick this off.
So, you know, we originally were building on Solana.
So we had kind of a lot of experience kind of going through the entire cycle of, you know, apps coming into fruition, gaining some amount of user base.
And then also, I guess, like the trials and tribulations of Web3.
And, you know, we wanted to bring a lot of like what we learned to Monad.
And I think, you know, so far we've been doing a pretty good job at that.
But I think I think the work, you know, has like only really just begun now that we are on TestNet.
It's been about a month since the Monnet test has been out.
And I think right now a lot of teams are kind of like falling into those same problems that, you know, occurred earlier, which is kind of like the onboarding problem, keeping people excited, keeping people active. And also, you know,
Kind of like, you know, creating like minor delays while development takes place, right? Because at the same time, you know, like we're still building behind the scenes and it, you know, it takes time to kind of iterate and, you know, finalize things and get things to a good steady state.
So overall, I think, you know, some of these problems have improved as there are more applications.
There's more infra teams.
There's more, you know, teams that kind of help behind the scenes.
But overall, I think it is still early.
So I think we are still going to have some of the, you know, frictions that we've dealt with in the past.
but yeah teams like decaf and others
I think are you know pushing the narrative
and in making it easier for new entrants
which I think is a really good
great step forward so yeah
Yeah, hopefully it gets easier over time.
And I think all of us, consumer apps, are going to play a part in that, whether it's simplifying the U.S., whether it's educational content on how to interact with all these things and staying safe on chain.
But, yeah, I think some amalgamation of all of that will make it easier for the next generation.
Yeah, I think kind of along that line, definitely agree it's still early when it comes to
kind of consumer products and actually breaking to mainstream for context for Moonwalk.
Obviously started from the Salana ecosystem.
Our co-founders are all early Bonk contributors.
So I've been around in this space for a while.
And obviously starting with beta testing within the Salana community, we got a lot of great
feedback.
Crypto communities are perfect for that in the sense that they're,
They're used to early stage products and will give really valuable feedback and are willing to stick with it and just be really helpful in the process and kind of involved, which I think is really special.
But our end goal for Moonwalk is we're building a fitness app built on chain.
We're not building a crypto app for crypto users.
We are building a mainstream consumer app.
And every decision that we make for the product kind of goes back to that North Star of wanting to bring Salana to the masses, not the other way around.
And just meeting users where they're at with like just an interesting, compelling product that they don't go to because it's crypto.
They go to because it's something that will make their lives better and that they find fun and engaging and want to come back to.
And the hardest thing, honestly, building, and I'm not technical, but honestly just like watching this with the team and as we've caught along, if we tried to build this.
Even a year ago, I don't even know if we'd be able to just because from an infrastructure
perspective of what it actually takes.
And again, we're still early stages of this product, but looking at what new user onboarding
looks like.
And, you know,
possible sign up methods for people who don't have a crypto wallet and you want to give them a login
where they don't need to go to phantom or soul flare and kind of have to go through that process
where you'd potentially lose a lot of people and just having that more like normie coded sign in with phone number with email
and having kind of app in-app wallet features and things like that if that makes sense like
How do we bridge the gap there where my mom uses moonwalk?
She wouldn't be able to do that if it was a phantom or soulflare sign in because she would just see it and give up or ask too many questions and get frustrated and then not know how to access it again.
So maybe a hot take there, but I think the biggest part is kind of finding...
infrastructure partners at different parts of the user experience to make it look and feel much more
like what regular people are used to rather than it feeling like this foreign thing and totally
agree that it's very early stages for for that and we've seen a lot of teams that are really
focused on making that transition smoother which I think is amazing because
This is going to be, in my opinion, the year that Salana, consumer and just consumer apps in general from the crypto side go mainstream.
And I'm super pumped about that, obviously.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'd like to add a bit onto that point.
I think...
Adding on to that point of the infrastructure completely changing,
I think from a perspective at DECA,
I think it's really interesting, like,
path that we came down,
that if you guys remember back in 2022 with Solana Spaces,
we were the point of sales powering the crypto payments.
So imagine someone walks into this physical store
They don't know I have any idea about crypto and they're like, okay, I want to pay for my, you know,
Solana hat in crypto at this like real physical store.
How the heck do you onboard them within two minutes?
That's like in an easy way.
It was so difficult back then.
And so many learnings since then.
You can see from the infrastructure,
the amount of different players,
the amount of different ways you can pay now.
It's completely different,
but you learn so much from just wondering,
like, these people knew about crypto.
It's like, I have a Bitcoin wallet,
but I walk in here and like, what's the Lana?
How do I do this?
And there's this huge education part.
And as we developed and tried to, while we were doing this point of sales, we learned that
we had to make an easy to onboard wallet.
And that's kind of where Decaf, we pivoted and moved towards this payments, cross-border
payments wallet, because that was always the original goal, to make payments easy to buy
your coffee with crypto, which is why we're called Decaf Cafe DeCentzel, which is like
decentralized cafe or buy your copy with crypto.
Nowadays, it's a completely different thing.
And there's all these infrastructures and all these different ways through, we use both
Solana and Stella.
Stella is very similar in terms of the U.S.
Where you can have fee pain, where you can have social logins, you can have multi-sig quite easily.
You can essentially do a lot of things where the people in our app nowadays don't necessarily
need to know about crypto.
But saying that...
There is a huge side of education right now because there is a lot of benefits of knowing about crypto.
So this is one thing. We started, let's say, a year or two after beginning.
Let's focus on the consumers that have no idea.
Look, imagine they don't even have a bank account.
They have never used a digital, like a Neo bank before.
They haven't even got it like a regular bank.
and we're trying to get them on board to crypto.
Why would they care what a non-custodial wallet means?
Why would they care that they can custody their funds?
It doesn't matter to them until it does.
Until imagine PayPal blocks your account and all of a sudden you're like,
oh, why?
Like they have full control of my money and I can't get it out.
There's my salary.
How am I meant to pay for my food this week?
All of a sudden, it doesn't make sense for them until it does.
And there's a huge component here as,
Using these great ux that's possible with the infrastructure that's now coming out
With all the different modularity of selana and our case stellar as well and all as well the legitimacy of stable coins and banking partnerships now is becoming huge
So all of a sudden this merge of the traditional finance and the regular finance like in the defy world
But there is an education piece that needs to be done.
And this is something that we're focusing on this year to try to find these balance.
We don't just want to bring Web 3 to, you know, like a traditional,
copy the traditional finance system and then make it like, oh, you don't even know it's crypto.
Yes, we want it to be as easy as a traditional finance system, but we want people to know why
Using crypto is so good why being able to custody your own funds means this why that all of a sudden you can have access to any financial
Instrument that you probably didn't have beforehand in like you can buy Mexican government bonds me sitting like at home in Australia or something like this
I can invest in completely different like instruments that when it weren't possible before in quite a
like easy-to-access way so I think
I agree with everything that's been said here.
Like, we need to focus, and it is very early,
but there's kind of this fine line between focusing on the people who have no idea
about crypto and making it so easy to use
and giving them the education of like, why they should use it,
why should they should care about non-custody,
and why should they care about the benefits like crypto brings?
But yeah, I guess that's it.
Cool.
No, I love that.
Definitely agree with, you know, it's something that you think about, right?
Like, yeah.
In this traditional financial world that we live in, like, anything can happen and you can just, you know, have your bank account seeds like seize immediately, right? Like your money is not really your money. Like I've been to the bank and, you know, I've had to like wire like, you know, money for like investments in the past.
And, you know, they'd be like, they'd be asking me like a bunch of questions as if it's not my money.
You know what I mean?
I'm like, yo, this is my money.
I want to wire this out.
Like, why you ask me so many questions, right?
Like, this is legit cash.
So it's just like, it's just so hectic.
And I think that's really like one of the biggest problems that crypto solves.
And yeah, definitely, you know, agree with that.
What was it, Benny?
Yeah.
Yeah, I was just going to touch up on some of those points because I was going to say
crypto has definitely evolved in the last couple of years.
We've seen like social logins, past key logins, all start to take over a little bit more
just to help with onboarding more traditional Web 2 users or just people who aren't even
tech savvy and try to grow crypto more.
And I know even with like onboarding or caching out, that's definitely gotten easier.
I still think that...
Crypto has a lot of work to do with, especially what we just saw like a month ago with
by bit and getting hacked 1.4 bill shows that crypto still has all those like hurdles to overcome.
And I definitely think there's an issue with crypto and like copying with everything being
open source.
one project spin up and do good and then a hundred other
forks of that project with one or two slight differences even the way
all these chains have popped up for since
Ethereum launching and then every year you have a handful of chains that pop up and they're doing X thing different than the old chain, which makes it the better choice.
So yeah, there's definitely that with like crypto and then just a lot of like sort of tension span and jumping from one community or the other.
But I think also we're starting to see.
Real projects starting to actually come out of crypto and kind of like break into the real world and more realistic use cases.
Like even now with like the whole stable coin movement, I think we're going to see a lot more.
regular web two businesses start to accept stable coins and whatnot and even just a whole president and supporting crypto and all that, we're definitely going to see a lot more people start to take interest or even crypto is going to start being integrated a lot more into these systems without people knowing. And that even goes to Deepin, which is what we're in because there was a big issue with Deepin and a lot of hardware was being
sold a lot of people were hyped with it but then never any usage or revenue came in i think now
deep in projects are really strongly focused on usage and revenue um and properly building these
networks out and i think we're starting to see that shift with a lot of other projects that are
really focused on more traditional numbers and revenue and growth than just hype and token and
pump and dump right
Yeah, no, 100%.
Like, the deep in, the deep in area is also, like, exciting.
So I guess, why do we jump in to the next question?
So, I guess on the moonwalk and orbit side, I guess you guys are two products that are
more trying to provide a front end that that doesn't like allow people to like it's kind of like
what moonwalk mentioned right like you quote-unquote like mom or grandma could use this app without
having a private key or without having any existing crypto knowledge can you get to share a bit
about like how that experience is going what are some of the different you know like uh
like trends you guys have seen in that area.
And I guess Benny, on you guys, then like as a deepened project as well, this is probably
relevant because you guys are like targeting, you know, not only web through users, but
also web two users.
Yeah.
So I mean, it's definitely a process, right?
And I would love to flip the switch and have it be, you know, easy for every single person
that comes to the platform.
But the truth is it's just an iterative process.
And there are changes we're going to add over the coming weeks, months that just, you
make the experience better and better and smoother.
So we started out beta testing with Solani users.
That was fully like log in with SPL wallet or via TipLink with Gmail, which is still like kind of a hybrid crypto-esque solution.
But that was what we had closest to like Normie sign in.
Now with the full iOS and Android app.
You can sign up with phone number, with Apple, with Google, with email.
Again, not needing a wallet.
There's kind of a wallet created in-app for each user.
And basically, the way that we're bridging the gap on, like, making it so you don't necessarily need crypto to start are twofold for right now.
And again, this is kind of in the middle.
And we've definitely still.
are in the early days of adoption for non-crypto users.
Obviously, the focus later this year as the product evolves is that we're going to be focusing
more and more of getting net new users to be using a crypto-powered app, which we want to see,
of course.
But.
Right now, we have free to play mode, which anyone can come in.
Maybe you don't have the money to be putting into games.
Maybe you just want to test out the platform without putting money on the line to start.
We have free to play mode where anyone can sign up for the app, connect their step tracker, and create their profile, and then sign up for any game for free, depending on the step goal and game duration they want.
Then we also have the ability for game credits, which we're sort of, if you're thinking of like an arcade, right, you have tokens that you use to play different games.
game credits on the moonwalk side are the same.
One credit is equal to one USC.
We're going to be able to buy that with credit card, with Apple Pay, with Google Pay.
That's in the works right now.
But for now, even with onboarding, you know, non-crypto users, I've bought game credits
with USC and sent them to the moonwalk profiles of my friends so that they can use those
credits and join games with money on the line.
That's kind of the intermediate solution, of course.
The end state is...
the things I mentioned before of actually having like Apple Pay, Google Pay enabled.
And then of course the education part, which DeKaff mentioned as well,
my first job in crypto was running a crypto education platform.
So a very big proponent of education and wanting to actually get people informed on the benefits and everything that crypto and blockchain
power in a superior way to systems we use today. So obviously don't want to just push people
towards Viat, but want to make it a more, a less intimidating kind of on ramp into the product.
And then from there, we'll have features and benefits that are maybe more on the blockchain side
of things. So we're kind of in the messy middle, as I said. I'm rambling a little bit and happy to
answer questions. But, um,
It's a process to kind of evolve a product.
And we wanted to start with the baseline of having crypto-native folks that are looking for fun, engaging apps like this to get on board first and then expand the group from there.
On our side, like we essentially, since we like this chat CBT type interface, we allow anyone to come in, logging with their email and then immediately interact with our chat interface.
So if you know English or any of the other languages we support, we can actually provide information around what's going on on the blockchain.
So, yeah.
We've seen a diverse set of people user product from people who are very crypto-native to normies.
And like, I think having our interface be such that where you just come in and type that has its pros and its cons.
I mean, some things like the con around it is that like,
sometimes typing stuff takes a while.
So we're coming out with like a voice assistant feature for that, which I mean, at least for me,
I know about everyone else here.
Like that is my predominant way in which I use most of these different AI assistants now.
Like I just talk to stuff for maybe an hour about like brainstorming things or whatever it may be.
So we're also adding voice modality, which will be really helpful.
But yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think having that ability to use natural language is a really great way to just kind of drop the barrier to entry substantially.
And then if you get stuck on anything, you just ask for help and then we can help you.
No, I love that.
I mean, that's an interesting, like, you know, ability, I'd say.
I know the voice to text kind of...
I'd say functionality, like there's certain folks who use it and I think that's super dope.
But I think a majority of the folks are still kind of using like tech like texting and whatnot, which is super inefficient and causes like arthritis and all this crazy stuff.
Like I literally have pain in my thumb.
from all the typing and texting I do.
I'm going to be hitting up a physio this week for this exact reason.
But yeah, I think that's a very interesting aspect.
Like,
I mean, orbit, talking to the AI for an hour, that is an insane, like, that's an insane hack right there.
Because, you know, you're just dumping all that data in there and getting that, you know, AI up to day.
You can literally use it as like a brainstorming, you know, like partner or whatnot.
That's super dope.
Very, very excited.
I think that could unlock a lot for the Web 2 side of things for sure.
Yeah, so just to touch up on those, I do think social logins and different types of like past key logins, adding different interfaces for people signing up where they don't necessarily need to keep their...
past key or private key store to ridden down has definitely helped with onboarding.
I know some chains like Slee, for example, they've introduced or implemented sponsor transactions,
which I guess kind of the moonwalk point where they're talking about having some sort of credit system that they can build in.
Sween kind of gives developers the ability to have a smart contract funded that can pay for
different types of transactions. I think everyone's kind of gone through that whole phase of
onboarding somebody new to Web 3 and having to explain keeping a little bit of like the native
gas token so they can interact and kind of having to explain the different blockchains and
what's going on. So I think like kind of like,
To everyone's point, we're in a middle ground now of making that easier and trying to onboard more people and making it more web-to-friendly.
But again, to the other points, I think we still have a lot to go just with all the security issues and whatnot, like the bit by bit hack that we saw just a month ago.
There's definitely still...
issues that you would never have in the traditional web 2.
And Web 3 isn't going to replace these systems until we can find a way to, like,
accurately solve these and get past them, right?
No, 100%.
100%.
I think there's still a long way to go, but to your point, things are happening.
So, folks, why don't we start with like some specific questions for some of the projects here?
Icon, Dave, if you guys have any questions, feel free to jump in as well.
We'll go around the room with all the projects.
Yeah, I mean, I'll start with Decaf.
I mean, I was there at the birth of Decaf.
I saw these guys kind of grow into what they are now.
I think they're doing a lot of good for
you know, the global adoption of crypto.
I was just wondering, what are some insights that you guys have in terms of,
I know you guys are focusing Latin America, South America.
What's the onboarding process there?
What is it been looking like?
Like, is there any trends that you can speak to?
What do you think the future looks like there?
Yeah, sure. I can speak more to that, especially here. When it comes to onboarding, like everyone's talking about here, there's lots of new features and cool stuff that make it easier, like social logins and multi-sig capabilities and whatnot.
But when it comes down to like the human level of trying to get your grandma or someone who doesn't have a lot of tech experience onboarded, we're seeing in Latin America and as well in Africa and a lot of the other, let's just say the global staff in general.
Even though it's not quite the easiest to use at the moment, it's getting there and it's definitely way better than the last two to three years.
There are so many people who have such a great need that they are happy to jump through, learn and essentially...
understand because it solves such a big pain point for them let's talk about like one
about we have so many good stories amazing stories of being able to use crypto in many
cases to change lives and in some save some in the way
that they do this is by sure educating them and being side by side when they first go on and learn about crypto.
But let's take an example of someone in Latin America who is a virtual assistant.
We have a bunch that work in a town in Colombia called San Francisco.
Some, I think many have maybe seen the documentary that we've done with Stella and another one with Solano.
There's about 40 or 50 women who usually don't have any options for jobs besides working
for in the farming industry or they have to go to Medellin or Bogota, like the two big cities
and they have to leave their hometown with their family.
But all of a sudden, because this one little town, about 5,000 people, doesn't even have
a single ATM.
So how the heck can they get money out and live?
They usually just work through the cash economy.
With DeCath, they actually can have a US bank account.
They're earning online, we're seeing about 40 of these women who are work as virtual
assistants.
They get this USC.
They say all they have to do is they have login with social logins.
They have, as soon as they log in, they have to do a small KYC to get a U.S. bank account and they can receive U.S.C.
Immediately, they don't have to do the KYC to receive U.S.C.
Once they have that U.S.S.C. in their wallet, they can then go to MoneyGram and they do essentially just say, hey, this is my passport number and they go show their passport or the national ID and they get it out directly in cash in really, really low rates.
because they don't have a single ATM in this town,
but they have two or three locations of MoneyGrams,
which is the partnership that we have,
that you can go directly from USC to MoneyGram.
And this is a case where these people had such a big pain point.
They don't want to leave their hometown.
They don't want to have to go to Armenia, Bogota,
but all of a sudden they can be connected to the global economy.
Another amazing story that I really want to highlight the importance of what blockchain technology is doing.
And even though the experience is bad for those, like can be bad and complex, the pain points are even bigger for a lot of these people in the global South.
So I'll talk about an experience in, we're working with missionaries that we're paying a girl in Afghanistan.
So there's a girl in Afghanistan, 19 years old, forced to marry, let's say, an 80 year ago.
She had to escape this marriage, but all of a sudden she has a death warrant on her life,
and she's hiding in a cave.
So this is a real story, and we're working with an organization that was sending from Mexico to Afghanistan.
take three to four days to arrive they take 30 to 40 percent i think i believe it was 30
percent overall of the fees and sometimes it gets sent back because um essentially it just
it just happens if you're sending money to afghanistan is very difficult so imagine now we were
able to use decaf because this this girl was nearly beaten to death i think was four times and then on
the fifth time we needed to send her money so that she'd go to the hospital
So instead of using this traditional system, we used decaf, the money arrived in two minutes and the fee was 5%, which is unheard of.
And someone plays so hard to reach in Afghanistan.
All of a sudden, it doesn't really matter about the onboarding experience because the pain points are so big.
And we're doing our best.
to improve it every, every day and many of the features that were coming out to make it less crypto.
But I don't think that's the point.
The point is that right now this technology can save and like save the lives of some people
and completely change and connect to the global economy for many.
And it just, maybe it's not us sitting in USA or Europe or Australia.
It's the global staff can benefit from this now and they just,
Essentially, the point is trying to reach out to them and finding those use cases and educating them as we go along.
So I just wanted to highlight those stories that we have.
Yes, that's a crazy story.
Yeah, and it also, like, you know, zooming out, kind of demonstrate something that, like, I guess in a lot of very developed countries,
crypto is like a marginal.
It's like, it's not a 10x improvement, right?
Yeah.
been in a lot of places it is 10x improvement.
And as you're saying, people are willing to kind of jump through hurdles to get to that 10x improvement.
What do you think?
In my mind, the real huge onboarding can come in a couple ways.
One is like some microcosms that are kind of that just need crypto rails to make use, to really take their...
businesses in an area to the next level,
just make ease of use for consumers, that kind of thing, right?
Is there some place in the world where you think that's going to happen,
like some microcosm where like the salon of blockchain or stowa or whatever it is,
is just used for commercial purposes for most businesses?
If that is the case, like can you just real quick, just tell me where you think that would happen?
That's a tough question because we're trying to find that exact place because that would be where the flywheel starts.
For us, obviously focusing on global payments, we think everywhere in Latin America.
If you were to create like a full ecosystem where you have a point of sales and you have receiving payments and everyone is paying each other.
Okay, funny story.
Okay.
In Colombia, in this little town where these like 40 to 50 women were receiving payments with Salon and then cashing it out, they would eventually borrow money off each other.
And then they would start just settling their debts with each other from like decaf to decaf user payments.
And this is kind of like the first step of how it would happen.
It's kind of, I think it will be in one of these countries where...
In combination with all of the policy changes that are happening now,
with the legitimization of stable coins from the U.S.
and the kind of the normalization of traditional finance connecting to the crypto world,
I'm not having a feeling somewhere in the global south will adopt it way rapider,
way more rapid than the, let's say, USA, where everyone has a bank account or Europe,
where we don't. We're betting on the global stuff.
Yeah, yeah. Okay. I wanted to know, like,
I guess you guys don't have a strong opinion, you know, Mexico or Colombia, El Salvador, Vietnam, you know, somewhere in the east.
I'd say somewhere, yeah, somewhere between, we're betting on probably Colombia first, maybe Argentina or Mexico second.
Super cool. Okay, okay. Let's move on, I guess.
So why don't we, why don't I jump here with a question for Carrier 1?
Tell us a bit more about the hotspots you guys have coming up.
You know, obviously the Suey ecosystem has been heating up and, you know, absolutely crushing.
And probably, at least on a narrative basis, it seems to be the closest competitor to Solana.
Let us know what your guys' plans are to become like the hackmaper of the Suey ecosystem.
Yeah, so with the deep end and the hotspots, I guess like I said earlier on,
it's a bit similar to some of the other telecom deepened projects doing the Wi-Fi hotspots or data offloading.
So someone would pretty much purchase a hotspot, install it.
We have deals with different telecom operators or aggregators.
And if a device comes into contact that,
We have an offloading agreement with pretty much we'll use that device to offload its data on.
We have that money flow in and then that money flows back into the token, essentially creating like a deep end flywheel effect.
So I think the good thing about us being in the telecom section is it's so like regulated and hard to get into.
It's not like...
With these other types of projects like the AI hype or the defy hype, you'll see thousands of projects spin up.
It's just not really possible for people to be able to just kind of like fork the code.
There's a lot of regulations and different government bodies that you have to deal with just to be able to kind of like get your foot in.
But I do think with the telecom section, we saw a little bit stained.
with how helium kind of has pivoted through a few different devices,
which never really kind of resulted in sort of like the usage and revenue that they hoped for.
But I think with the hotspots,
we're actually starting to kind of like see the vision play out like people I'd hope to,
where you're actually kind of creating a network,
which where these telecom operators feel comfortable to use.
And it's providing a net benefit to them in terms of like cap-x reduction and overall like,
the amount that they're paying for their data and providing better service and connectivity.
So I think we were lucky enough to avoid that whole scenario of rolling out these
products that weren't really generating any sort of like usage or revenue.
And people were just kind of like stuck with a chicken and an egg problem where it's like,
oh, we kind of like build up the network.
It's like, do we build up the network or do we kind of like get revenue or usage in from
these different telecom operators?
But the telecom operators didn't really want to.
sign on to something like that until they kind of saw it play out a little bit more.
Now I think that with crypto overall evolving and people becoming more familiar with it,
now you're starting to see more mainstream companies become more comfortable with it.
Like for example, GeoNet apparently compared to their Web2 competitors,
they're providing a much cheaper solution.
And it seems like the people who use the solution for G2,
Eonet are more comfortable kind of just popping into like a Web3 style of overall network
opposed to a lot of these traditional legacy systems that are very hesitant to switch things over.
So for a carrier one, we just kind of started rolling out our hotspots.
We launched a store just earlier this week and we got a lot of,
new interfaces and dashboards that are going to be launched throughout the next month.
And I think one thing we're really focused on is incentivizing people to install these hotspots
in the right locations, which would be more commercial locations or locations where you're
more likely to see foot traffic opposed to residential areas, which I guess for a lot of people who
are looking to make passive income, they're just hoping to purchase a device and install it
and just have the money come in. But I think with,
deepen and needs a little bit more work or coordination.
So two things we've been really focused on is making a really intuitive explore map,
where people can kind of like participate and see where would be the best or most ideal location to install and kind of like building out these tools that people can kind of like essentially
similar to like staking, but essentially kind of like rev share between these deployers that are going to properly install these locations in the in commercial spots.
And you essentially don't need to do anything except for giving them a portion of your revenue.
And then also kind of like really focusing on a bounty system that will incentivize people similar to how IVMapper has it with their little like.
coins and gamifying it more so that people will install these and coordinate these in proper locations
So yeah, I think the Explorer map will roll it out in the next month or so and give people a better idea on
how we look to kind of like use
decentralization and crypto to coordinate
these installs better.
In terms of sui, yeah,
like you said,
SWI is kind of like the closest competitor
that we've seen to actually,
in terms of like building up the community and usage and value
and kind of like providing a similar proposition to Solana,
they're the closest,
even though we've seen a few of the projects
spin up from Move
and then just other projects spin up,
Like, kind of like what I brought up with like, say or even like Monad that are, I guess,
providing some sort of like better solution or some alternative solution to,
where other blockchains have failed in the past.
So I think with Sway,
there's a few key benefits that have kind of helped them stick out.
So a lot of the Sway team is kind of like X meta slash Facebook,
and they were the ones that were working on like the DM slash Libre blockchain,
back when META was looking at making or launching their own blockchain.
But when META like scrap the project,
the team's kind of like formulated into two different projects,
one being Sween and then the other one being Aptos.
But I think the,
The main thing with Sway is you kind of got most of the actual, like, technical people.
Like, for example, Sam was the guy that actually kind of made the entire move language.
So him being part of Sway is kind of, like, a little bit more bullish,
where you had, like, a lot more beady guys going on the Apto side.
Not saying Aptos is bad or anything, I think just that kind of helped Sway really stand out.
And then I think with Sway, they've kind of, like, really focused on a lot of, like,
the aspects that a blockchain needs to kind of help grow a proper ecosystem and kind of like build it up.
So whether that be like sweet name service or Deep Book or even recently Walrus, which is their decentralized storage protocol that they're launching this year or just this week, I think that's.
been a big thing with SWI and helping the ecosystem grow a lot quicker and more stable than
other projects. And then even like some of the other stuff that I touched up on with like the
sponsored transactions and all that where it helps like and even a lot of the stuff that they're
doing with like ZK login, which is like social logins and pass keys and all that to me onboarding
people.
like web two people or more normie people a lot easier to web three and even just bringing over
more web three people from other ecosystems into their ecosystem they've done a good job with like
the marketing and all that right so yeah i don't know i thought dave had his hand up um maybe i'll
pass it off to him so i kind of write it right there
No, thanks. I think that's a good summary of Sui as well.
No, I just wanted to ask, I had to go in a few minutes.
Just want to ask a basic quick question.
Ahar, are you there?
Yes, sir. What's going on?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I was just wondering, like, what kind of consumer products are you going to be, speaking
in consumer products, like, what are you going to be offering other than the Dex Aggregator?
Like, are you going to be offering kind of a suite of products that is similar to Jupiter?
Do you have any plan for like the rollout of any non kind of anything other than, you know,
the Dex aggregator on Monad?
Or is it kind of too early to be deciding on that?
Yeah, that's a really good question and I guess I will share a bit of alpha here as well.
But yeah, very similar to Jupiter or how other aggregators, I guess, you know, maintain their
market presence and dominance in the ecosystems. They largely, you know, focused on the core product
first. So just making the Dex aggregator very easy and accessible for
other teams to plug in, you know, algorithmic traders and users, as well as, you know, people that will interact on the actual front end as well.
And then beyond that, once we've kind of like nailed that and everyone is really, you know, happy with everything about the actual swap experience, yeah, we do plan to, you know, enable additional features, you know, such as like limit order and DCA and, you know, few others over time as well.
But yeah, our goal is always to focus on the core product and then, you know, and just add additional feature sets that, you know, improve the experience.
Another thing that we're currently working on in terms of like user experience is actually what the bridging process will look like on Mainnet.
So we're, you know, currently working with Wormhole and, you know, exploring potential other partners as well.
on that solution, given that it is, you know,
obviously a few months away.
And we just want to be ready for that
because, you know, unlike Solana,
where people will likely already have their capital there
or another chain that they've used for, you know,
a couple of years now.
With Monad coming to Mainnet, there will be obviously a need to move assets.
So we're just working on that problem right now and making it really simple for users to transfer assets and then that way they can interact.
But yeah, it's a very interesting time for us as well in terms of like what I guess the order of operations and how to deliver everything is.
But given, you know, usually an aggregator or some sort of swap interface is typically like a, you know, first interaction after creating the wallet, of course, you know, we wanted to, you know, make sure that, you know, that process is easy and, you know, allows people to then, you know, explore, you know, the entire ecosystem and use other apps and everything else.
Yeah.
Are you mostly focused on like partnerships with with dexes and liquidity providers, that kind of thing?
Is a lot of this like BD stuff?
And like yeah, front ends as well.
Because like Jupiter, you know, almost has a monopoly on partnerships with with front ends to just like do, you know, all the swaps for, you know, phantom or whatever.
It's all kind of done through Jupiter on the back end.
Is that a big part of what you're doing right now?
Yeah, exactly. So like obviously on the development side, you know, we're obviously trying to decrease the lane C. We don't have access to like, you know, running validators yet I'm on ad. So there is like, you know, a certain like, you know, limit to like how fast we can make it. So we're currently like working on that problem and making the routing better and faster.
But you're correct.
Like aside from that, a lot of the work for aggregators and aggregator teams is to, you know, add as many liquidity sources, which I was kind of alluding to earlier on the spaces.
And you're right.
It is mostly BD work.
In terms of having that lock-in or having people kind of use your router as opposed to others,
it kind of comes more from like a stance of necessity or improving the product for other apps.
So as an example,
If you're an RWA protocol, right, you're completely like you're in DFI, but you're not necessarily dealing with like, you know, every single token, but, you know, the few tokens that you are using in order for, you know, to enable, you know, your user base to, you know, work or, you know, speculate on these RWA assets.
is, you know, you do need to make some intermediary swap, right?
And currently, you know, and this is very common in Monad, given it's really early,
a lot of these, you know, teams have maybe integrated, you know,
the maybe the most popular decks or something, right?
But a singular liquidity source.
So what happens is over time, as, you know, there's more users that that pool of liquidity will dry up.
And either the team has to keep adding more liquidity or, you know, they're having this like issue of, you know, mispricing or something like that due to slippage.
So where an aggregator will come in is, you know, we'll simplify that process, right?
We'll, you know, obviously, you know, be able to integrate multiple of these sources and kind of balance, you know, that load to some degree so that, you know, there is less price impact, right?
And over time with us plugging in like RFQ and other sophisticated players, right?
It will effectively just reduce that, that slippage, as we like to say, when you are performing
swaps for the more common blue chip assets as well.
So yeah, there's a few different things we're working on concurrently.
But yeah, you know, it is, it usually comes from the teams reaching out and needing this solution,
which actually is happening like as we speak.
We have a lot of teams that we're going to be providing an API key and they'll be able to then use a router.
Because, you know, they genuinely need this in order to improve their experience.
And we're just there to help facilitate that similar to, you know, another infra team.
Awesome.
Okay. Okay, I got a hop, but I'm excited to hear any updates from Moonwalk or orbit when I check the recording. See you guys.
Thanks, thanks, Dave. I guess why don't we jump...
Let's wrap up with K-1 because I did have some follow-up questions over there and we had some comments in the in the comment section.
So, Lekness asked over there, for the personal hotspots, can you use those on like, you know, moving vans and whatnot?
Or does it have to be locked into a physical location?
So that one is a little bit of like a yes and a no answer because some aggregators or telecom operators won't really care as long as...
it's kind of like in their system to connect to that type of device if it's in the range or whatever
and then offload to that device but then there's some operators like for example like
AT&T which want to know the location of the device and they want to know if it's like a commercial
or residential building and then they'll decide if they'll use that device for offloading or not so
in that case it would i don't think they would be
they would offload to those types of devices, but some aggregators or telecom operators won't really care.
So more like a yes or yes and no.
Gotcha.
Got you, got you.
Very, that makes sense.
And then in terms of what you mentioned earlier on the, because you mentioned HidMapper and whatnot,
created like new, new products and whatnot.
And, you know, like for revenues and like, you know, whatever it is.
What happens to the old products in that case?
Are they still, like, working or are they getting, like, you know, reduce emissions or what's the deal over there?
Yeah, so I think as like technology grows, it's similar to like how if you're to still use the same Bitcoin mining equipment as when Bitcoin came out, it probably wouldn't generate as like the technology gets better.
A lot of these like different products, depending on how good or useful they are, we'll definitely earn less emissions or just as the network grows.
when people invest in better higher end equipment um your product might earn less emissions so
i think that's just the natural progression of things and i think also um just with like manufacturing
and more devices and deepen projects coming up things are becoming cheaper to be made so obviously
you're going to be able to manufacture and purchase the better equipment or even the same equipment
for cheaper than people were trying to do like a few years ago um but i think
people understand that's just how networks grow.
It's just like kind of like expecting the same type of like cell service
or the same type of like internet speeds that we were running like
five or 10 years ago, it's not really realistic to expect that.
And people understand that newer and better equipment are going to come.
And especially if you want to drive down the actual cost to using the network
and kind of like or like get more usage through driving down the cost to use it,
that just has to happen.
And I think that's not really as much an issue.
I think more of the issue is kind of like incentivizing people to install or,
use or like kind of grow the network properly in a decentralized way without kind of like sacrificing
um decentralization for centralization so i think some of the things we've seen with like different like
deep in projects is like boosted rewards in certain areas or um like i said with like hive map or kind of like
trying to gamify it by like placing coins on the map and getting people to drive around and kind of like
collect these coins with their devices so i think uh
Gameifying has definitely helped with Deepen a lot.
And I think Deepen's now starting to find its footing in terms of, like,
now creating these actual networks that are generating revenue and actually, like,
growing and scaling.
And I think just through like trials and errors and just through ecosystems,
growing and providing better tooling and, um,
additions to like their code like brought up earlier with the sponsor transactions.
Um, a lot of these like solutions are becoming a lot better and easier to implement and making it a lot easier and faster, um, to grow these networks, right?
Yeah, yeah, 100%. No, that makes sense. That's interesting, man. Super, super, uh, super exciting stuff.
The, you know, I'll be honest. I think the, for me, uh, I've been talking to a few VCs over the last couple of weeks.
And the two areas that they think are going to be the emerging technology trends in Web3 is, I guess, three of them is, three, I guess is a bigger picture.
But the two that VCs have actually spoken to me about was Deepen and AI.
So I do think that whole sector is just getting started.
So, you know, should be pretty exciting to see how that plays out.
Yeah, and I think...
Sorry.
Okay, I thought I was echoing for a sec.
But yeah, I think Deepin and AI are definitely the two biggest and hyped...
topics like similar like how we saw like the defy hype back in like 2017.
I think they're kind of like two spectrums where you have like some networks which are
not generating or doing anything or just based a lot on hype.
And then you have a lot of networks which are kind of like undervalued.
And I think we're going to see like some explosive growth in the next couple of years.
And that kind of goes with like both the AI and the deep inside of things.
Because I think AI definitely people, there was a lot of hype around it.
But I think people also don't really.
really understand kind of how expensive and how much money is being poured into AI from some of these
web two or traditional like Fang type technology companies and how much harder it's going to be to
kind of like compete on the same scale as them. So I think a lot of like these AI projects are going to
have a reality check. But that goes same to a lot of these deep in projects. And I think that's kind of
creating like a,
a lot of like mixed sentiment between the VCs where they're hyped about it but they're not trying to kind of like go in and get burned by a lot of these projects since there's only going to be a handful of these projects that really kind of like succeed and blow up but the ones that do are going to be like massive and huge so there's that kind of dilemma that they're going through right now but yeah I appreciate you guys for having us on and definitely excited to see how
the deep end and AI space evolves, especially in the next few years without crypto in terms of
like defy and just traditional air ones are evolving or whatnot. But yeah, thanks for having
and definitely excited to hop on again. Like you said, we just roll, we're in the middle of rolling
out our hotspots and got a lot of stuff in the next month or so. So anyone interested can follow
the carrier one page. And yeah.
Yeah, hopefully we'll have our TG in the next couple months.
And then just from there, focus on building and growing one of the biggest decentralized telecom networks.
Love it, love it. Thank you. Thank you for jumping on over here.
I guess while we'll wrap this up, we still got, you know, we're still going to be here for like 20 minutes if you guys are still hanging around.
Orbit and then Moonwalk. Let's do some quick deep dive questions.
Shivas, I know you were, we were chatting about AI earlier.
So Orbit is here.
This is the AI project that I mentioned, building out the chatGBT of Web 3.
Orbit, give us an update on V2.
Give us some updates on generally some of the exciting things that you have going on.
Yeah, absolutely. Sorry about that.
Throat's all messed up today.
But yeah, no, I mean, the thing I'm most excited about is the voice assistant side, which I talked about a little bit earlier.
We're working also on fully autonomous stuff.
So think of agents that can perform on things while you're sleeping or just like a...
more or less like an automated like wallet in some aspects.
So like if you do have a bunch of soul,
like is it just sitting there?
Do you want to get like the highest staking for it?
Same thing for like stables.
So we kind of have like a based off your risk profile
looking at, you know,
automated opportunities rather be like meme tokens,
which is kind of falling out of favor,
but there still have some things or liquidity provisioning or
like more like stable stuff like yields via like lending or staking.
So we have a bunch of cool stuff kind of going on there.
And then it's kind of sad that Dave left, but maybe he'll hear this.
But I know he's been big on like us doing the infrastructure stuff.
And I have some cool stuff we've been working on on that side as well.
So yeah, yeah, just lots of cool stuff kind of going on around there.
Love it.
Let us know a bit more about the infra stuff that you guys have coming up as well.
Yeah, so essentially the thing we're working on is, I mean, it's kind of like early project
stuff, but one of the major things that have been kind of coming up that have been super
popular for how agents can interact and integrate new tools is like called like an MCP.
So this model context protocol comes from like anthropic.
And so effectively we're going to be turning orbit into an MCP server in which any project can seamlessly integrate us.
And even like Anthropic and other like chat interfaces can integrate orbit as well.
So then we can be a pretty fast plug in play using a known standard that comes from Web 2, but also integrates on Web 3.
And that will give you access to 117 chains, close to 200 protocols.
And the idea behind it, first version may not have the wallet capability with it, but the idea behind it is also it will have the wallet.
So then we can kind of extend into...
kind of the agent to agent payment realm.
And we're thinking about having some like a proof of concept stuff for that that we can show.
And then also have we have like we had 200 people sign up for that.
So we have quite a few people who want to do agent to agent payments.
And then we can kind of do a proof of concept and add in those people and start doing some cool things there.
Super, super bullish.
In terms of the wallet you mentioned, is that like an orbit native wallet?
Yeah, so like kind of the problem is like if you go on like say Anthropics like Claude's interface or just think like chat ShpT if you haven't ever used that
It's like if you wanted to do something on crypto there
Like maybe a trade or whatever because you heard some information or you create some kind of strategy you want to somehow adjust that on to crypto
You know, how are you going to do that if you like
ChatGPT doesn't have a connect to wallet feature.
So it's like we would probably like integrate that directly inside.
But then certain other platforms that we've been approached in
approach by it in the past is like effectively they wanted to integrate this abstraction layer into their wallet.
Maybe they already have one.
So then we want to kind of probably first version we won't have it and second version we will have it.
But then you'll have like the orbit wallet embedded inside for applications that don't come natively with the wallet,
but you can still have access to like your funds kind of thing.
That's huge. That's that's very exciting. So you guys are building a bunch of stuff in this you know orbit ecosystem. So yeah, that's very exciting. Shiva's legend. Did you guys have any questions on that? So I'm looking at this, right? I'm looking at the dashboard.
If I understand correctly, it aggregates all these different forms of data,
majority Web3 focus data into the single dashboard that has a bit like a chat,
GBT functionality. Is that correct?
Yeah, yeah. And you can do like transactions as well.
So we can aggregate data both on and off chain and then also do transactions.
So like swaps, staking, lending, borrowing, like a whole bunch of stuff.
So we saw recently that AI XPT sent, what was it, 50 eat or something?
He got food into sending 50 eat or something.
Do you?
I don't know if you saw that message and if so what your take is on that and the risks that are currently involved with using these things when even the most sophisticated agent I would say because currently that's one of the most sophisticated agents got fooled into into doing that.
Yeah, so our stuff is independent per person.
So like AIPT and a lot of the different social-fi type agents, they ended up aggregating.
They have like a single account behind it.
And so I think that kind of implements a decent amount of like security risks associated
with it.
Our stuff is.
very different. So it's not like we're having like a like a chat bot or like some kind of
personality and that has like a wallet behind it and that wallet behind it is aggregated
between everybody. Ours is like individual. So you go on there, you create an account,
you have a series of wallets that are your funds and it's your session and your service. That's
never broadcast or served anywhere else.
So like that type of security risk isn't really one that would be on our side.
For the MCP server stuff, the way in which you would access that wallet is you do like an Oath authentication.
So you can do more or less like a native like authentication, which we leverage.
like privy to help support the wallets behind the scenes.
So you just log in your email effectively.
And then that would then give access to your wallets.
And you could do that over the like Anthropics website or desktop app.
Are you creating for your users a WebTree wallet the moment they enter your platform or your dashboard?
Is that functionality there?
Yes. So that's one of the ways in which we onboard people that maybe don't come from crypto.
Some of the things we've looked at doing is more or less like sponsoring transactions.
We did some things a long time ago with a one-click checkout payment system that we had built out.
We did a bunch of account abstraction.
That didn't really scale really well for us.
We did that on like 18 chains or something crazy.
So we've kind of thought about doing some agent stuff around like doing gas abstraction, but
we're kind of, you know, we have already a lot of things on our place.
So we're kind of mainly focused on like the chat application and the MTP part.
What is the way that a user can un-ramp funds into that wallet?
Oh, they can do credit cards.
They can do exchanges and they can do sending from another wallet.
So some of it, what we had before is we had like if you go on our application right now,
you have I think like something like 20 different on ramps.
So you have like a ton of different options to do stuff and which you can on ramp and off ramp
from pretty much any country in the world.
But what we kind of found is that like
Some of that in our V2, we're going to be kind of removing some of those options because most people, like, that was kind of a confusion aspect is just like presenting them with 20 options instead of just saying, hey, like, how do you want to off ramp or on ramp and that kind of thing?
So we're going to be consolidating that down into just like exchange credit card.
You could do like Apple Pay, Google Pay, and then also transferring from another wallet.
And would your target audience then be, I would say, non-crypto-natives, where you can help them on board into crypto through the AI by asking simple questions like, hey, what are good tokens that have been performing lately?
Or how can I have a diversified portfolio across whatever?
Yeah, exactly. What we're seeing is like the more left curve we go, the more we can just abstract and enable.
And then from a first principal standpoint, it seems like a lot of users are interested in using agents for like an unfair advantage in the markets or like at least an understanding.
So like kind of to take more of that.
I guess, like knowledge or strategy or whatever,
and be like a co-pilot or assistant to help you get there.
But if we're much more right curve, extremely crypto-native,
tons of charts, tons of information,
we found from our users that was not super beneficial.
It does help, but it's just like, well, then why are you using the agents as opposed to something different?
So it seems like the more left curve we go, the more automations we drive.
That's really the audience that are gravitating towards the agents to begin with.
These are looking for this more abstracted, um,
knowledgeable, smart type experience, but not one where they're just inundated with like a ton of information and data effects.
They have to be the like mastermind or whatever.
They, you know, the only sole person who can think on it.
Yeah, plus your company becomes, I would say, significantly more scalable because it's a larger audience.
And also, I think you would have a better position for acquisition later on, right?
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I'm Nero and I have talked about some of that stuff in the past.
But yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I was going to say, like, I think using it wise, even if you're non-crypto-native, if you're going to be using a lot of the chain abstraction stuff to get, like, alpha.
you kind of don't want like charts and all that stuff, right?
Because a lot of those tools already exist.
If I'm going to, if I'm going to search for something like, you know,
why has the current, like, Mindshare has volume and what's hyped?
Like you kind of just want what the ticker is or what the token is
with possibly like simplified information of just like volume, market cap,
and maybe answers of, you know,
in the last 24 hours, this is how much percentage it's moved.
Like, that's all a type, like, a person would need, right?
Regardless if they are, like, a Web 2 native or a Web 3 native.
Like, if you're going to use an AI assistant,
you kind of want the most simplified information as possible,
especially when it comes to, like, a lot of the data extraction stuff.
Don't you think, but maybe it's more, yeah, it's a question to you,
legend, and orbit at the same time, that you want to go for a hook,
based on the problem that you're seeing a lot with traditional non-native users.
So for instance, a hook could be how to get started with crypto, right?
And then be that one AI app where users can easily get onboarded into crypto
and learn the basic fundamentals.
And then the follow-up call to action could be by your first 100 in crypto.
And how do you want your portfolio to be high risk, medium risk, low risk?
Like three options, very simple, pop up, pay with credit card and go
Yeah, like it's kind of the most ideal onboarding process, right?
Like, you don't have to get involved with setting up a wallet.
You don't have to, like, figure out which charting platform to use, right?
Like, Dexcreen, like, Bird Eye, the 50,000 telegram trading, trading apps, the 10,000 desktop
trading apps, you literally just tell it what you want.
It's similar to, like,
like the pre-made profiles like even I was looking at like a lot of the DLMM stuff that's it's possible with like orbit
you could just kind of like tell it right like instead of like actually having to learn the process of like this is the the the bin stops to set up like it just does it for you
Right and if I'm a if I'm a web three native that already knows this and I want
Somebody who I just onboarded to have the most easiest experience possible
Instead of me being in a chat with them and like baby stepping them the way through which is just time-consuming
Right, you could just introduce them to this and then it just becomes a
a big set of learning curves that's just covered in an automated way, right?
Yeah, 100%.
Super, super exciting stuff.
You know, obviously I've been a big advocate and super bullish on orbit, so I'm super excited for V2 and all the things that they got coming up in April.
Yeah.
But she does. We'll definitely catch up offline and chat more AI.
But I do know Moonwalk has a headout in five minutes.
So Moonwalk, did you want to give us any quick updates on what you guys have?
Any big updates there where you guys are building?
Let the people know.
And then we'll go across the room and let everyone give a quick...
final remarks.
Yeah, for sure.
So V1 of the iOS and Android app are out now.
And DeKaff kind of inspired this part, but I think we're all going about it in different ways.
But what we're really trying to do is democratize fitness and making it fun and financially rewarding.
You typically see a lot of the fitness apps that are out there today.
are subscription-based or higher-end or targeted towards a very specific,
affluent type of person in a specific demographic and geographic area.
What we want to do with Moonwalk in the same way that blockchain is going to be democratizing
effectively everything it possibly can and really opening up the floodgates in terms of access
and inclusivity.
We want to do that with fitness and making it fun and communal and having it be, you
know, financially rewarding as well as physically and mentally rewarding too.
So just kind of on the bigger picture there.
And we've had a very global audience that's reflected that as well.
I think our top four country user bases right now as we've grown, I think we have like
150, 160,000 signups at the moment are across four different countries and four different continents.
to really, you know, meet people where they're at and the product reflects that with like,
you know, any.
Fitness level, any financial situation, we have free mode.
You can put as much on the line as you feel comfortable with, and they're always eligible for rewards.
So throwing that out there.
But the product's going to expand to including more than just this basic simple step contest.
We want to make this the go-to health app with financial rewards baked in.
I think that's kind of a hidden edge as well.
But also community focus, too.
baking in more of an emphasis on letting people congregate and create these like really special
support groups no matter where you're at around the world and just having those communities
form and strengthen within the app and having that social component to it as well I think is
super important especially when it comes to anything in the fitness realm. And then for anyone who's
using the product now can kind of leave things to the uh,
imagination here a bit, but another big thing coming up is around...
our global leaderboard in our experience points program.
We just wanted to set that up not only to gamify the experience more,
everyone loves the leaderboard,
but also to make all of our loyal users that have been on the platform,
hitting their goals, being consistent,
really putting an emphasis on their health and daily movement
to make them eligible for future rewards.
So there's going to be a lot of exciting stuff coming up for that.
Highly recommend you look into it.
Highly recommend you get walking.
But we're just getting started.
So there's going to be...
a totally different looking app probably by the next time I chat with you all.
Love it, love it. No, that's super, super exciting.
Love, love what you guys have done and, you know, what you guys have achieved for the Web 3 space,
especially a bunch of, you know, Dijans just probably breaking their backs, staring at charts,
you know, hoping, hoping for that 10x or 100x.
You know, really, really excited for what you guys have coming up.
I'll go to Shiva.
What's up, Shiva?
Yeah, so I have one question for Moonwalk.
Why have you learned from stepping and what are you doing differently to achieve a different outcome?
Okay.
Yeah, no, that's a great one. We get that question a lot. And I think the short answer is, yes, they are both products that try to encourage people to move more under step base. That's kind of where the similarities end. And it's all in terms of like incentive structures, game structure, the incentive mechanisms, that sort of thing. Moonwalk is definitely more of a communal product. We're building for the long run. What we saw was something like Step In, where the platform was...
what would move to earn.
A lot of people call Moonwalk move to earn, which is not necessarily the case because
in a move to earn model like we saw with Stepin, the entire ecosystem was originally based
around app-specific tokens.
And what we saw with that with the walk-to-earn model was that it was super inflationary
and eventually was not able to sustain itself.
It obviously was an absolutely massive project at its peak, but it wasn't something that
was able to sustain like economically.
economically viable, financially viable, to sustain the growth and momentum that it had.
So we took that into account in a very big way with building moonwalk.
And even down to rather than it being like an individualistic project, we're doing group
contests where there is social support and light competition for while we're all trying to
achieve the same daily step goals.
And any yield that comes...
you know, in the form of the prize pools that go to people who win these games are all generated
from other users. So if I miss my step goal on three of five days, three-fifths of the money
that I put up initially goes to a prize pool, a split amongst the people who are most consistent.
We want to reward people who are hitting their step goals daily. That model works, whether there's
10 people on the platform or 100,000. So we've tried to create a model that's much more
sustainable regardless of size and not necessarily inflationary related to a token that's just on the platform.
All deposits are USC balker soul.
So there are things that people use off the platform that are highly liquid, highly held.
And, you know, those are all things that we considered as well.
So definitely a much different model.
We learned from the mistakes of the past.
And especially with onboarding too, something that we saw with Steppen specifically, it is wild to me actually that it had as many users as it did when you look into what onboarding looked like.
You had to buy an NFT.
The NFT informed how much of the token you were able to earn in the day.
It dictated whether you were.
we're walking or running to get those tokens, like kind of oversimplifying.
But all of those things are friction points that make it more difficult for users who are not in the space already to get onboarded.
So we kind of took an opposite approach of it with the lowest,
lift possible for someone to get signed up and into a game.
And that's something that we're always trying to work on.
But yeah, we get that question nonstop.
Whenever people see that we're walking up,
they assume that we're the same as step in,
took a very, very different approach.
And I think it's going to end up being much more sustainable in the long run because of that.
Yeah, I think the sleep to earn meta died so moonwalk fitness could thrive.
That's what we're betting on.
Love it.
So, what's up?
Did you have anything else?
Yeah, if you have a different, so I think that a part of the growth and stepping, you know,
came through the inflation of the token and the fact that, you know, those tokens could
have been earned, blah, blah, blah, right?
So the price pool or the earning capabilities were there enough for it to be attractive.
Now, specifically the audience that you're working with, people either move or they don't, right?
i did a national campaign here in the country where i reside with government and all the health
insurance companies and all the major jims and it was specifically targeted at that group of
of residents that struggled with moving and our conclusion quite early on is that it's very
difficult to get that group to move that doesn't want to move and the group that moves already they
already move
So I think that cost per user acquisition would be initially quite significant until you build up enough of a base where culture and community become your relevant and driving factor.
How are you planning to manage that, finance that?
What's your thought on that?
I mean, every business in some way or another has like a cost of acquisition for their customers, right?
So, I mean, that's something we think about a lot, something that has been enticing and sort of a growth hack in terms of making it more appealing.
Because in this case, to your point, you know, part of the appeal was something like Step in is like token was going up.
People were.
Making a lot of money.
Moonwalk is structured very differently where it's interesting pitching it to a crypto crowd relative to the psychology of the average person, which I would say crypto is not.
Which is, it's more about...
loss aversion and not losing the money that you put up and having that be a driving factor
rather than maximizing on yield, which I know in this space is kind of a different concept and
a little bit more interesting to see how people react to it.
So it's starting with the crypto crowd, what we've kind of leaned into and building out
the sort of network effects of a product like this, which to your point totally agree.
It's got to be like curating a vibe and a lifestyle that people want to be a part of,
making movement cool, making it seem fun, making it seem like.
Like the thing that people are doing and they're doing it together.
That's definitely something that we focused on entirely.
But with kind of making it enticing for different types of people, we've been working with a lot of different projects who want to get visibility in front of a larger audience, which we are definitely growing at a pretty quick pace by hosting sponsor games.
We can have any liquid SPL token as an added prize for people in Moonwalk contest if they hit their steps.
We've seen some of the largest NFT projects doing this.
We've seen some of the larger projects in Solana offering up their token as prizes,
thank Gito and some others.
And we've seen some pretty significant growth from that as well because from their perspective,
they're getting their name and their token into the hands of new holders.
holders, they're getting it in front of new people who maybe are interested in fitness but not
aware of their specific product.
And then from our end as well, we're just juicing the price pool to give people more rewards
for something that, one, they're either already.
doing because they're already active or it's a further incentive for them to keep pushing to hit
the daily goals if it's something that's difficult for them um so that's been definitely a big
growth hack early on and of course that's coming from other projects where you know the spend is
mutually beneficial for them as well as for the users so there's kind of this like healthy symbiotic
relationship there um but i mean moving forward it's definitely going to be like from i'm more on the
marketing side like we want to
paint a picture for people of like what they can be.
That's what a lot of health and wellness and fitness marketing really comes to is like
the aspirational better version of yourself type of deal.
I think moonwalk is going to bring an interesting element to that with,
you know,
obviously the ability to earn off of something that maybe you're either doing already or not doing,
even if it's not a large amount.
But also,
curating this really, really cool global borderless community of people who are like positive and encouraging each other, which I think is very understated in the space.
And even early on with the product and I'll stop rambling, some of the biggest feedback that we've gotten from people, even especially in this space is like how positive and feel good this product is and the community is and that it makes them want to keep coming together.
Like positive things can be addictive as well.
And, you know, in crypto, we see a lot of the kind of the other side of that.
But it's been proven pretty early for a product like Moonwalk that something positive and
feel good can also have that flywheel effect that keeps people coming back for more.
So I guess I'll leave it there.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Yeah, I know you have very limited time.
So I think it's good to leave it there.
Appreciate it. Thanks again, Moonwalk. Any final remarks from orbit as we wrap the spaces up?
On my side, I... Oh, there's echo. Oh, sorry.
Oh, no, you're good. Sorry about that. But yeah, no, I mean, I think on my side, I already
chat about everything I kind of had, but yeah, just super excited about our V2 and what we're kind of
working on there. I've been kind of working on some stuff also while we've been on the space. So,
It's super excited on everything and just pushing extra hard to try and get some stuff out that, uh,
here as soon as we possibly can.
But hopefully we'll have some new updates,
like at least small minor updates here shortly,
kind of that we can push out to them,
push progress and everything kind of out
so everyone can start testing out more and more.
That'll be in the public domain.
If you want to have early access to our V2,
shooting a DM, and we can join the list.
But yeah, it's really happy I was here and great space today.
Appreciate it.
So for V2...
When does the beta, I guess, early access go out for B2?
When do people, can people start playing around that?
Yeah, the new version will be shipping for the orbit product that will include the voice
assistant and stuff like that.
We'll have an earlier version.
The hardest thing that we've been mainly working on is the autonomous agents.
That's the fully autonomous agents.
That's where it's a little bit more difficult.
But we're going to try and have a public domain,
like public launch of a much smaller version first.
So it would probably call like a 1.75.
And then like the actual autonomous agents will probably do more beta.
But it'll probably be more embedded inside the product inside of like the 1.75.
Love it, love it. So coming out and I guess Fades over here, but that's awesome. Okay, cool. Yeah, that should be it on my end, guys. Thanks again for tuning in. This is the Everything Crypto Show. This is volume 132. This is one of the longest running Twitter spaces in the, I'll take crypto space. We've been going on for three almost, I mean, three plus years now, so...
It's exciting and we are powered by Pith and Seoul Casino.
So shout out to our sponsors.
Thank you guys for sponsoring.
And yeah, let's wrap this up.
We'll be back again next week.
I'll be posting a tweet, a Spaces tweet,
probably right after I close us down.
So if you guys are interested,
please check that out.
If you guys haven't done so,
please give me a follow.
Give the folks up here in the speaker section
and co-host a follow as well.
And yeah, I'll see you guys next week.
Peace all, guys. Talk soon.
