today morning and there's no better way to start the monday off than a seed world space
to our web3 gaming it's a great day to get have a great day let's get some tunes let's
get this room cooking let's get this party started right
here we go again we know the stars we know the ends master's of the sea we've done it
all before and i'll be back to get some more you know what i mean
now we're back to get small you know what i mean
now it's all we can't nothing from history
oh hey for some reason i can't hear this space that's all give me one second guys
how's everyone doing we're back i'm feeling excited i'm feeling good it's a monday morning
in this side of the world i checked the charts and it seems like we're back
well it's looking it was looking like we're about to hit 3k on ethereum very soon i'm calling it
this week bitcoin is on a surge the good vibes are back when i check the timeline can't help
but notice but it feels good feels fantastic it feels well deserved a lot of people that we have
on the panel today i'm scrolling down on the listener panel as well have been here in the
depths of the bear market hustling and grinding every single day and it feels right to be where
we are right now and we're gonna cherish that we're gonna cherish that but i want to check in
with meta alchemist welcome how are you doing well for you this monday evening yo yo yo
sheriff i'm doing good bro uh just been working uh the whole day and excited to be in the space
and mondays is the new fridays as you say so you know uh let's let's actually start with an
amazing space with great panelists today exactly you know our panel does not fall short out of that
i mean we've got a ton of legends up on stage i mean there's been so much happening um that i
want to get into i want to quickly just see get a vibe check from everyone just want to check in
on the shrapnel account who's tuning in uh behind the scenes hey shiv it's sneaky che good boy thank
you so much for the invitation and so excited to be up here with so many amazing projects uh i think
we do need a vibe check in the room uh bottom right corner guys let us know do you think we're
back or is this just uh something to not get too excited about cool great question great question
i think there's a lot to discuss today as we get into the discussion we also got play ember with
john pulling up who i'm also seeing later this week at nfc paris which we'll touch on a little
bit later but john how are you doing gm gm yeah i'm i'm good shiv it's great to be uh the back
thanks having us back uh yeah definitely the market is is feeling pretty positive um like
front of house and behind the scenes here in a lot of strong conversations preparing for what's
coming and yeah likewise um it's just really excited for this week just love iorel events
like power of networking it's just it's just gonna be great in paris this week so i can't wait
really looking forward to it unfortunately no landos but we'll make it out with some good coffee
shops and croissants in paris we also got amir pulling up as well and also congratulations
it's a lot of work like a lot of um noise going around when it comes to the bias drop
um and that was super smooth to see as well how are you doing
fantastic vibe check uh amir i think you're getting brought or i can't hear him
i'll i'll bring you down i'll pull you oh there we go yeah can you yeah perfect no worries uh
hey guys it's uh it's been a really really busy busy last 45 days and it's been exciting but i'd
be more excited when we deliver on a lot of the promise we're trying to build towards and you know
it's it's for us this this meant was more to show what we're building towards in the community's
hour to to what our you know our token launch looks like or no network looks like what are
essentially the big complicated tech piece because our nfts are actually very unusual
everybody thought that why aren't you just selling islands on skyborne they're the easiest
thing to sell and i said look i i don't want to bet um the ecosystem on one game and kind of build
towards you know these these things i would rather sell infrastructure which allows people to be part
of a more stable economy from from our perspective right games come and go uh but infrastructure
plays a really solid role so so our nfts are complicated but they they seem to sell
so not bad uh but yeah we're excited we want to ship a lot of things we're building
no hidden secret we're both building a chain now and that's come a long way and now we're
ready to announce and share more on that super excited pleasure to have you on and oh you have
a very busy schedule alongside everyone else so i appreciate everyone's time pulling up
we'll make sure when you leave either have learned something new or gave a fantastic take so
appreciate you coming by a stage uh familiar face joining us on the seed world stage how you doing
hey there yeah monday another day another grind uh i'm doing great to be honest uh we are running
this play to our job with grovel of course and that's going super well and everyone's bullish
about the entire like web3 space bumping so what can i say uh good times good times to be in the
space uh good times for longtime builders and yeah very excited to be in this panel fantastic
we've also got ethlizards pulling up i know you guys are going up and down on the stage
are you guys hopefully not getting rubbed welcome yeah thanks guys it's great to be here uh this is
animosa test from ethlizards um i was having trouble hearing the other speakers other than
the co-host so i think it's solved now uh fingers crossed um look it's it's great to be here with
this panel i know a lot of the teams that are up here and props to everyone that's been continuing
to build for the past few years it's not just you ship i think it deserved this uh like oh lavon
it's not it's not a banger space if there's no rugs happening um hopefully everyone else can
hear eth lizard i can hear him if lavon if you can't hear him maybe you want to pop down and
we'll bring you back up shortly but i appreciate you but i appreciate ethlizards for pulling up
um it's always a banger space when there's at least one or two rugs happening we also got
and pardon me for butchering your name is it xyro or is it x ro it's xyro okay
okay welcome to the stage how you doing yeah hello guys my name is lad i'm the founder and
CEO of xyro nice to meet you all here uh feeling great feeling bullish we had xyro been feeling
bullish for a long time for a while now a bullish on crypto on web3 in general a bullish on all of
you guys yeah and i happy to be here pleasure we also got dollar sign style protocol public
ido with c to five font some alpha there welcome there you guys got the bike music
yeah let me try now it was just like going on and off sorry about that yes leo here founder of
stockbook all very happy to be here i'm super exciting times for us as well of course you know
tuning in on a monday looking at the chart uh everything's golden yes indeed we have the
public ido with c to five coming up very excited about that also we're going to be launching our
mvp actually this week for people to you know transform their nfts into 3d assets for you
know cross gaming usability so that's really fucking exciting and yeah i'm looking forward
to contribute to the space thanks for having me beautiful stuff uh last but not least our favorite
bozo part-time co-host um and of course with us at c to five sanjay welcome gm
gm gm part-time co-host is kind of crazy or like you know when 11 wasn't here just remember who
well who had your back all right just just remember all right all right sanjay you know it's love he
did he did hold it down he did hold it down but it's a pleasure you're still pulling up uh a much
love brother and i hope you're doing well it's a great day to have a great day but look i want to
get into the meat of the discussion it's the reason why he came to the stage you see i have
pinned the question of the day above and just before i get into it kind of want to discuss what
we're you know talking about today you know in this space we're getting to a concept of perhaps
web 2.5 gaming which maintains the what we're familiar with in web 2 gaming but is
incorporating elements of web 3 in the background and personally i'm a big fan of this way forward
because it reduces the friction points when it comes for consumers entering web 3 games
because a lot of the stuff you don't interact with it's all in their back end versus us as web 3
nators we're used to perhaps signing contracts and are doing a lot of other stuff as well that
typically puts people off and you know this provides like a really smooth transition for
um compared to a full leap into web 3 so kind of want to discuss today about how the gaming
world is moving past you know the hype and focusing on what really matters you know great games that
are free to play and welcoming to all you know and we've seen the shifts uh since 2021 of you
know free to play games and bringing new players on board now you see the question of the day i've
pinned above and we're gonna pass this around and if you feel free to request up on stage or reply
to it and that is how is the gaming landscape evolving to address the initial spectacism
around web 3 and create uh crypto particularly in terms of enhancing user experience um i actually
want to pass this question to you levon you know how do you see the web 3 gaming scene or most
importantly the gaming scene as a whole uh evolving to kind of address the typical stuff
that people think about when it comes to web 3 and crypto
yeah i think uh right now ship uh most of the you know founders are realizing that
the traction the growth and user-based numbers are going to be like one of the most crucial
aspects uh to define what's going to be their market cap what's going to be uh you know the
sentiment about the project so of course like uh before the launch uh of the token and stuff
i mean these numbers are not quite that important they're still important for
getting the raises and stuff like that but you can still build a great community and uh you can
do it uh that way but when you have a token and uh when you're actually in the market i think
one of the most important factors is going to be how many gamers uh play your game how many people
are staying as a long-term user uh in monthly and daily users so uh like if we look at uh the
landscape right now it is maturing in that sense so much that uh you know more and more founders
right now are gonna want to do the user experience great for the uh you know for the gamers and what
that means is you know they won't require for example the wallets sign-ups in the beginning
or they will just make it very very easy so you don't have to actually have a blockchain wallet
but uh you can do with the integration like how uh nifty island for example did it or uh you know
you will uh basically see much better tutorial than onboarding processes so most of the users
can actually get onboarded easily instead of going through all these loops and stuff like that because
you know uh right now uh because that maturing is going towards the you know growth-related
metrics i think the teams are going to be automatically thinking of these you know user
experience and user onboarding stuff much more deeply and another part is i think uh you know
keeping the users engaged in the game so retention and uh in terms of that i would say like we will
move uh much more towards battle passes and uh engaging methodologies where you know the users
would want to come back uh day and uh day again instead of becoming like one-time members through
a play to airdrop or something like that so i think you know uh the space uh you know evolving
is uh making sure that all these changes are automatically done by the best founders and
they're going to be the examples that will move all the other uh you know wave 3 games to
utilize uh you know methods that they're using as well i love the answer there and i would love to
hear also like the unique perspectives that we have from other founders up on stage amir i want
to go to you because you have you know a lot of stuff cooking on your side especially within your
ecosystem and something that you dress early on is the way that you're doing it differently you
know you're going against what other people perhaps are being telling you or do like a
lancer whatever it is and i kind of want to ask you how do you see the gaming landscape evolve
to address the initial kind of skepticism around web 3 equiptor maybe if i got your answer directly
like in general i think if we go back to web 2 there is a 10 percent um i'd say success rate or
under 10 i don't even think it's double digits anymore on in gaming um so so the risk factor is
very very high web 3 i feel is under like one percent in terms of success we don't even know
how to measure success in web 3 right now on the gaming side so people will have be skeptical
people will have trouble really believing in it but it is i would say the best the way we say it
is like the honey pot that attracts the most amount of bees because of the fact that it's it's
you know it's one of the largest industries in the world in terms of user base for sure so
i really believe that there's always going to be um it's always going to be a tough market
but we really need to understand what changes gaming is this one game and that bring on board
so many people like you know i remember free to play people were very skeptical sure zinga was
doing well but beyond zinga we weren't seeing a lot on mobile um and free to play everybody said
would fail and then clash of plans came and it just dominated the market and then candy crush and
i don't know if most people know here clash of plans still makes over a billion dollars a year
and so does candy crush still crushing it um so i i feel these games eventually will will show
the way the candy crushes of or the clash of plans of the world um there might be very different game
styles there might be evolution in genres a mix match um and that is why we want to de-risk
our community by not like betting on one game uh nft for them um and and i feel if more people
think about an ecosystem play or partner with ecosystems it's it's far more beneficial
in terms of building that risk profile for your company um that's that's like in a nutshell how
i would answer it i love the answer that you kind of gave that right and really core emphasis
on the partnerships and collaboration side i do want to build on what you said you know and also
kind of considering the backlash of like low quality gameplay and nfc nft centric models
how are the current web 3 games kind of prioritizing gameplay quality
and you know player engagement to drive user acquisition from your perspective
sorry is that a question for me yeah okay uh i i'd say like every like it's done differently in
every genre to be honest uh but but like everybody's talking about fun so are we games need to be fun
but but the biggest problem in web 3 is the four web 3 audiences that we all have onboarded are
farmers and i they they're they're engaged by certain upsides of trading they believe through
nfts and or or getting token allocations through nfts which becomes really challenging because even
if you make a fun game you you really don't know what the true kpis are right for instance we
launched a game which was for a community called five one genesis the retention numbers are insane
on it but we also know that insanity is because those guys are not scalable so so i i really
believe the engagement part of games needs to be like open to all and the farming needs to go on
the back end which is like i i'm not shilling our nft collection right now but the goal is like if
we can find a path and i think we'll find trouble in like kind of like building the back end and the
front end where you know the farmers are actually farming on a back end dashboard taking the nft
and then connecting their accounts and maybe someone else plays from the game account but
whatever that is i think is is the experience that might really win it but otherwise you should
just make games for web 2 but when you do that completely you also undermine what the community
expects from you so it's a very fine line and we're trying to nail it and we'll we're we're trying to
extract as much data from other communities games to really really figure this out but it is not
such an easy answer i'd say um but but the the process for us is just build tech build a game
on top of it and then allow us to to iterate on the first time user experience funnel once you
have the retention numbers for mass audience you start scaling it and then you push content from
the back end because that you you know kpis might change eight months from now uh so so you
got to be able to build really fast once you hit the d1 retention numbers and d7 and d30 um that's
it's a complicated answer that's what i could answer at best right now appreciate that answer
just before we get to style i want to request we've got a banging panel today we've got a stellar
topic of discussion and the retweets are looking absolutely weak and i'm seeing zero bookmarks so
if you do do me a favor goes to the bottom uh right slap in the repost slap in the bookmarks
it goes a long way i appreciate you guys let's get those numbers up you know it's at 12 let's
at least get it to 30 real soon style protocol i want to go to you guys yes thanks i just wanted
to you know double down emphasize on what um amar has said there with regards to
changing the narrative a little bit and this you know i would i don't want to say a problem but
the fact that a lot of the current web free games have a lot of hunters and you know financial
beneficiaries involved um i don't think there's anything you know fundamentally wrong in web with
with you know web free getting people incentivized through you know financials i actually
think that's great but i think one of the challenges that all of us cumulatively will
will have to face um in 2024 in this run is changing the narrative from like okay i'm playing
this for financial gain i'm playing this for an ad-rob i'm playing this for my nft to go up in
value to i'm playing this because it's fun i'm playing this because it's a good game and i think
the ecosystem or the titles that will manage to get that to get that engagement yes through
financial gain but primarily through fun and then secondary financial gain are going to be the ones
coming out on top but i mean it's easy for us to say we're just infrastructure provider not
necessarily developing our own game but this is what i think um i personally would would see here
okay i love that i want to get perspectives of perhaps more of the creators that we have
up in state sanjay i want to go to you and kind of just taking it back to the first question i
asked earlier on right i mean you get to test out a ton of different games almost on a daily basis
talking to a plethora of other teams and whatnot and then you've seen the landscape evolve you've
seen it change right and initially from when we started to where we are right now how is kind of
gaming especially the evolution of gaming kind of addressing the initial skepticism around web3
for example we've seen games and also experiences such as like from pudgy world where you can sign
up using an email you can trade around trades and whatnot and it's all using the tech uh that we
use on a daily basis but the general user doesn't see any of it there's no friction at all so i
love to hear this from your side what is something that you've noticed yeah you know great question
and also i think games are like doing a lot a lot of a better job now you know like when it comes
down to oh you have to connect your wallet or you need to be on this chain or you need you know some
gas or whatever in your wallet to even like test some features out in game nowadays you know as
you know like there's like emails going on like you can just log in using email to basically any
game right and a lot of these games are also being available on you know epic epic game launcher
which also helps so even like you know if you're just testing pretty sure shrapnel you could you
were able to download it on on epic games you know like the launcher which is which is so much more
easier than just downloading a game on the website compared to now that you know people
already trust this launcher so i you know love to see that and especially coming from such a big
game like shrapnel you know like so games are definitely like evolving in that sense to kind
of like decrease the barrier of entry for gamers but i also want to say like to incentivize new
gamers and to bring in new users i think we are still kind of using the same strategies of
of you know airdrops or or big giveaways or you know big money pool prices which is which
which is working right now but would love to see something you know change a little bit and maybe
some unique and creative ways to to kind of like onboard more people i love that also we
got some hands shooting up right away i just want to quickly tap in with ic i know you pulled up a
bit later first of all how are you doing my man and i don't know if you want to touch on anything
that sanjay said because you're throwing up them emojis yeah man thank you for bringing me up shiv
you are an animal man going from space to space respect the work ethic and grind i hope you're
doing well i was on the space earlier and they were saying like no one ever asked how the co-host
are doing so i hope you're doing well but thank you for bringing me up here super excited to be
on the space with everybody here this is a big brain conversation and you got some of the best
people here uh meta shrapnel john hook amir uh sanjay of course in these games um i agree i
agree with sanjay right um lids and like amir i respect so much for being like honest and
transparent about like kind of where we are and it's not easy and we're figuring it out and it's
a fine line um i think that type of honesty and uh thoughtfulness is what we need to push the space
forward uh my perspective is to quote the great sam stephanina web 3 gaming is inevitable and to
me this is just a normal adoption curve of blockchain being a new technology like we're
trying to like speed rush these games to like mass success when the tech is still being figured out
it's like we can only be as good as like the tech really allows right now so it's like trying to
build you know uh uh fortnite in 1995 on like an html flash you know browser it's like it's just
not going to work but uh we're seeing a lot of advancements in the tech uh and we're seeing a
lot of great games who have raised a lot of a lot of money uh build new exciting games to push the
space forward and do more um uh in their genres uh shrapnel is a great example that i am an ambassador
and really really believe that is doing something new and innovative and to me that's what it's
going to take it's going to take these big game studios with these big budgets um coming out
making a great experience for new people to come in and enjoy i always think of like this loop a
fiasco line from the song superstar like did you improve on the design did you do something new
and that's what i look for for these big games because that's what's going to attract the masses
they want these new experiences fun experiences that um can leverage you know the the utility of
the blockchain and shrapnel is doing a good job with the ugc i think ember is doing a great job
on on the mobile side so that's what i look to and then of course on the creators like we're
the ones that are in the trenches day day in and day out so it's i think it's on us to like hold
the games accountable and also like voice with our opinions and also our dollars like what we like
what we think is good and what's going to push the space forward but like it just takes time it
just takes time these games take time to develop and come to market and all of it will happen
just not as fast as we want it to what a beautiful answer i see i never can always rely on you
and i appreciate you pulling up you got everyone excited and exactly what you said right
right through gaming is inevitable uh everyone slap it in the comment section if not tweet it out
today let's get that ball rolling definitely we're not slowing down on that front here uh shout out
to sam if i'm not mistaken shrapnel you had your hand up first and we'll go to the lizards so
shrapnel i think i think it was the lizards if they want to go but was it i appreciate thank
what a gentleman uh if lizards far away yeah i appreciate that guys no stress so i i want to
come back to one of the points style uh and i think sanjay made that is we we in this industry
have seen basically the same meta exist for the better part of three years and it hasn't
fundamentally changed it's gone through a few minor iterations i i'm reminded though of the
statement that if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail and if we consider
that the industry really didn't have games available all they had to sell was uh gamification
of defi um then it makes a lot of sense when you look back at the last two or three years
the point that style made that i think is really strong is this the whole concept of narrative
shifting uh this is where we are in the industry now the next two years are going to be one of
these inflection points where we're going to see a lot of games that continue with the same
existing narrative of hey come play earn make money uh and then you're going to see a whole
a whole other round of studios many of whom are taking a web 2.5 approach that the financial
components are not secondary but they're not the the you know the main focus let's say of
the infrastructure and the design of the product and i think it's both are okay right to be fair
you need in many emerging industries this early financialization to be able to bring interest to
the sector but we're going to see that begin to fade into the background for most of the titles
that exist in in this next cycle because you've had enough time finally finally god finally for
us to build out enough games to where players are happy to play just for ownership of the assets
they don't have to get a retirement fund out of the deal as well and so i think i think you're
going to see this kind of bifurcation this splits between the two different types of studios as
they're building over this next you know and launching over the next cycle um can't wait to see it
i love that answer and honestly i can't wait to see as well i think the narrative definitely has
shifted in a bit of direction that honestly is going to be more fruitful for the long term things
so i appreciate that uh shrapnel it's gonna fire the CEO because i know you had your hand up
yeah shiv i think uh just wanted to bring it back to what sanjay was saying uh earlier and i think
what i've what we've noticed as a studio in the space as a trend is just a lot more
optionality giving to the players and to supporters and how they want to engage with the game
um and you know ourselves as an example as well as parallel and others is that if you want to
have a completely web2 experience and not even know that you're interacting with a blockchain
enabled game you can do so right you're not being compelled anymore to go learn new language
learn new jargon learn new technology nothing right we're going to meet the players where
they're already at right google logins social media account logins as well as just being
accessible on distribution platforms that the gamers are already on and so when you're meeting
the gamers and the target audience where they are already and you're not forcing it down their
throw of like oh hey you need to go get this wallet software you need to go like to this
exchange and get these tokens to even start the game um i think you're going to see a lot
easier adoption um and so you know ourselves as well as parallel and others right you don't need
a wallet to be able to play you don't need the in-game currency you literally can just find us
on our our launchers download the game and figure out if you ultimately just like to play
and then that's getting back uh to what amar is saying um is that you know ultimately if we're
able to have a fun game then we'll have a little bit more stickiness and retention that's a little
bit um more true and indicative of your audience versus just the completely like d-gen incentivized
you know yield farming um that's what they're just there for in terms of reward
i think something that was touched on earlier right and we spoke about this
if i was taking a couple months ago when it comes to if we're trying to if we're trying to bring a
lot of people into the web3 games we have right i think the main hurdle that we have is people
discovering them i think people are oftentimes quite a tough to discover games and there was
a period of time where play tests were going around as a zip file which i highly recommend
never do uh if someone in a discord dm sends you a zip file for a play test do not accept it no
matter what but i think when you're using a platform such as epic games and one-horse theme
etc it opens it up to a lot of other people to discover it to play it as the main hurdle right
is that visibility so i really appreciate that take and i love how um you guys also had the game
on epic games as well uh john i'm gonna go to your hand yeah some really great points i just
want to build on top so i think again web3 gaming can mean many different things but if you're
talking about accelerating consumers into like web3 then there's absolutely nothing wrong with
that first experience being as simple as downloading a game and playing a game for free
and then when they really love that game that's when you know like you've got you know like who
played space invaders back in the day right you kind of play for free and you can practice for
free but then if you want to enter like the tournament arcade mode you know that that's
like a separate like level up of the game so think of it like that for these free to play
consumers right they play the game and they just there's maybe that extra competitive layer or a
um you know like a pvp layer to the game and that's the pinch point where you then
it just makes way more sense to invite them in and get them to to sign up and there's some value
exchange for them to start playing this new game loop that's powered by blockchain blockchain
tech um i don't i don't think there's any question that the infrastructure now is is great right
there's just no barrier it's amazing just so much good three web3 tech the main design
barrier new x barrier is more the app stores if you're thinking about like native ios android
apps and to your point shift like there's no you know there that's where the the mass audience is
in terms of distribution so so i i don't think there's any problem as part of a web3 ecosystem
having pure pure web2 games right it's about communicating that the benefit and value of that
to your uh to your holders so long as there is that clear funnel and growth path of these web2
players into web3 and you can clearly communicate the value exchange of of onboarding them um and
what that brings to your ecosystem but then i think part of this sometimes is is the limitations
we put on ourselves with web3 gaming because if you look outside of web3 gaming and you look at
let's say pfp projects that are doing something very similar to we're talking about
you know there's there's no token there at all um they're just doing a very good job of onboarding
you know web2 into web3 with you know just with really fun gamification and a very very
light layer and they're doing a very very good job at it so why why can't the same be true for
certain elements of free to play gaming why do we need to put all these barriers in front of
ourselves and try and trip ourselves up and start judging what is and isn't a web3 game
you know the goal is to grow this space collectively and the way we'll grow or a key
way of growing there are some people that will just go straight into web3 and are coming to
blockchain because you know that there's just some exciting game or and or a financial element or
expectation to that gameplay but there's going to continue to be loads of people coming into
to web3 because there's just amazing studios just making free to play games even more fun
so yeah just wanted to share some some thoughts on that because there's just been some amazing points
yeah i mean john i want to balance with another question on top of you and
i'm just curious right i mean infrastructure has become a critical focus in the web3 gaming
sector right i mean how can you discuss the developments in this area and how
essentially they're facilitating a smoother transition for gamers from web2 to web3
in like especially the web3 environment i don't know if you could touch on it
what you're asking ship in terms of just a point of view on the on the infrastructure and the
different like ecosystem placed on boarding is that what you're asking yeah yeah because
essentially yeah it's become a very critical focus and now more than ever the whole notice
yeah it's quite interesting when you look at different different blockchains there's a real
i'd always say divide between some of them because some of them take the point of view in terms of
hey look we're we're just the infrastructure right our job is to provide the best in class
infrastructure to make sure your game doesn't tank and keep transaction costs low like the rest
of it is on you like make and design a great game and figure out the ua there's others that are kind
of saying both you know we'll kind of help with both um you know i i'm not i'm not going to start
ranking like to one of those like epic twitter like ranks on like you know best blockchain uh
what's the worst blockchain because some of it again depends on you know it depends depends on
your game it also depends on your player base you know there are some blockchains that have got an
amazing ecosystem of games but perhaps those players are really there for you know kind of
like play to farm play to earn right there's other blockchains that you know have got a different
thesis on the type of games and and players that that they want and then there's each blockchain
have got some unique merits in terms of you know some of the stuff you can do around nfts and
composability of nfts that you know are interesting that that in themselves could unlock an entire new
gameplay loop so i i think it's down to to each game and uh developer to do their own homework
on each chain and figure out what their you know what their priorities are and what their
what their uh player profile is to make sure you've got a good match at a you know technical level
and you know of course goes without saying it at a gas fee level as well
i love that answer appreciate it and yeah i think the gas side of things is something um
definitely interesting right so shout out to the l2s but kind of want to you know pass around the
question um and i want to hear from a few other people up on stage i haven't heard much from
i mean that is like you know reflecting on the trends and shifts in web 3 gaming
what do you guys kind of see as the most crucial element to kind of ensure long-term success
i think the playbook is always shifting that's a given but it's important that as visionaries we
look at what is something that solidifies almost long-term success and mass adoption to these games
and most importantly like gaming studios as well sage i'd love to hear this from you um from your
perspective yeah to me it's uh two things so the the core peters from the two uh parts of the
industry that we're in right we have three in gaming so you have to have a fun game you have
to have a fun experience or gaming ecosystem and then the incentive alignment structure you have
to really nail that down uh and yeah both of those like you can have starting points so you can
jump start for example uh an incentive structure and a web 3 economy and even gaming ecosystem
with a token launch with a plate to our job like we are doing with grow for example but you need to
have those fun experiences uh those fun games and you need to have a good incentive alignment
structure that's sustainable to uh be able to produce a game or gaming ecosystem that's gonna
endure uh and that's gonna yeah basically be sustainable for for the coming years you know
so the way we view it is in different steps so you have like this first step where you're trying to
kind of jump start give life like ignite your ecosystem and for us as they play to our job
and at the same time we're aligning incentives with people that are joining our game uh and at
the same time of course like the most important aspect is that the actual experiences are things
that are fun to people that is not everything about like extrinsic incentives but that the
intrinsic incentive uh kind of structure is there as well
uh appreciate the answer shrapnel your hands shut up right away far away yeah
i think honestly what's going to start being critically important is revenue sustainable
revenue sources um you know we see a lot of companies out there they do a capital raise
you know we did traditional vc funding or you do an nft mint or follow-up you know nft sales and
nft mints but all of those are like one time uh sort of uh capital wells in terms of just you able
to capture like a big treasure chest and more chests right and all of these companies including
us are spending down these more chests of all this you know capital that we raised and ultimately
how you're going to be able to replenish that and get more time in the bank is by ultimately you
know making some revenue so i know there's a lot of games out there right now that are actually
starting to do this uh and i'm curious to see shiv you know if a community that's smaller
but is able to monetize really well if that community is going to be you know more powerful
the market is going to value it higher than let's say a community that maybe isn't monetizing as
well but is super engaged and has a lot of user bases that's something that i'm interested to
see how plays out in the future and our guess is that the companies and communities that are able
to monetize are going to sort of have a leg up in this next run fantastic take and i also
resonate with that not only on the web3 gaming perspective if you look at as as a whole web3
nft's perspective you know when it comes to nft like sorry pfp projects and beyond what is being
favored right now are the brands that have sustainability the brands that actually are
operating as a business that have revenue being built i think we came from a market where of course
royalties were enforced at pretty high rates and the volume was there the volume was there but once
you take the take away this factor zero zero percent royalties and whatnot a lot of these
projects were not operating as businesses as they're operating in the royalty business
and you see this drastic shift in brands actually going above and beyond in terms of creating
revenue but also how can that drive back to the product like you know the community whether that
be gaming whether that be any like pfps it's definitely interesting and i love that take as
well levon i want to go to you as well and as very much you're a visionary as well when it comes to
c4 and 4 c4 i kind of want to ask you what do you see as the most crucial element or one of the most
crucial elements ensuring long-term success you know you've been around here for a while you know
early into the bull run when it came to c4 and you're still here today so what is something that
you know you realize is required to have long-term success and to bring massive option to these games
and game studios you know when we started ship 2021 there wasn't much games in the market there
was only like x infinity that was playable and most of the other things that were you know just
building and they were getting their first funds and we helped a lot in in that sense as cify in
2021 and you know looking back right now to how the industry is evolving right now what the
industry definitely needs is you know games that that will bring a lot of users and that will bring
a lot of monetization but you know some of the things that amar has mentioned related to you
know gaming success ratios and everything it's it's also true which is you know most of the games are
not going to be successful so how can you navigate in this kind of an ecosystem and you're like
getting all these investments and you know you have to actually ship a product sooner than later
and you know there is a lot of factors that is in effect in terms of you know whether you're going
to be able to create a community how well are you you know you're going to be able to organize it and
such but you know the very simple answer that i would give over there is definitely don't
you know rely on just one single game and if you're actually relying on just one single game
then make sure that that is actually really quality and like quality meaning it's fun
it's rewarding it has the things that it can keep the users engaged and it is not dedicated
towards only to the web tree ecosystem because i don't think there's going to be that many
players who you're going to be on board directly from web tree but you need to also go out there
and onboard players and from outside like that's how pixels grow that's how you know x infinity
grow of course like each game is going to bring more users too but i think it's something that
would resonate that has to resonate with web2 audience as well it cannot be something just web
tree and you know besides i think you know you gotta really raise and create revenue somehow
because like the reason why seedify actually like managed to you know start building seed
world and you know kept alive and growing in this you know three years is because you know we
actually run a company who made actually revenues and you know became a sustainable business while
we didn't take any vc money or anything like that and you know just started from an airdrop so
like in the back of every game they need to actually think about okay how can actually
uh how can we make money and how can that money come not just through the sales that we do and
you know it's it's really hard i'm not gonna uh like say it's easy because you know then they
need to actually change their game models they need to you know think of you know extra revenue
generating stuff to you know keep the money flowing and stuff like that but another way that
they can do is something else that i want to share is since this is the bull run there's going to be
a lot of vcs there's going to be a lot of people who want to actually you know put their money
and uh in the bull run like you will have much easier time uh to raise funds compared to you
know other times so you know most games who are actually building something great they need to
actually go heavy on uh you know uh raising as much funds as possible so you know they can build
something great of course without you know uh without creating a lot of uh you know bad cases
with like bad investors and stuff like that but you know finding real partners i think that's
going to be crucial because you're going to compete with uh large giants right now and you
need that funding you know to build a great game fantastic point i think it's definitely going to
be interesting to see how web3 gaming definitely shifts out in this upcoming bull cycle that we're
kind of teasing towards right i think what we had pretty much early on versus what we have now
it's almost a day and night difference i think we've learned for a lot i wouldn't say mistakes
but more so experimentations from what we had previously to where we are right now
and i'm really looking forward i think each cycle we're very shaping out very much shaping
out in a mature manner so i'm looking forward to it uh kairo i'm gonna go to you guys
yeah hello once again guys i just wanted to share my point of view on the question of the day
so as the gamify platform we at kairo we are also on a mission to evolve the gaming landscape and
to overcome this initial skepticism around web3 and crypto so i would say that some of the key
areas from my perspective are the user centered design it's like obligatory to ensure that even
those new web3 and crypto can easily like navigate and enjoy the platform enjoy the game it's like
just like what you're doing then the second one is transparency and security it's like also mandatory
to provide that transparent gaming where players can see this transaction histories
game outcomes so this distribution of rewards i think you know what i'm talking about then the
real ownership and rewards of course if you have like nfts with utilities if you're like
giving your players these in-game assets you just need to make sure that players generally own them
then also i have in mind this innovative gameplay to constantly explore this new game mechanics and
narratives that can help you and your project to stand out in the market as well as education
support of course this might be my last point from the head because to reduce this skepticism
overall in web3 i think that every product project needs to do these educational resources
and be responsive with support to help his users to understand the benefits of the project and
everything so yeah by all these key areas in in my point of view we as a project and all the projects
need to aim not only to enhance this user experience but also to demonstrate this value
that we're talking about the value proposition of integrating the web3 and crypto in general
into gaming that's what i think fantastic points amir i know you're getting vlogged back before
that had a question for you but john i do want to hear this from your side of things as well
i mean do you be a veteran in the scene uh and now recently with pay ember what is something
that you see crucial as a crucial element when it comes to long-term success and mass adoption
you know very much looking forward and perhaps it's something you could revisit down the line
yeah so i i think short term i definitely agree we need to find a route to sustainability right
um and it's if but in the short term it's a bit like you know but before before you
potentially think about doing a tg right what is a tg it's like your ipo so how do you typically
grow a gaming business pre-ipo it's all about market share it's not so much about profitability
it's about um yeah it's it's about showing that you you know you can quickly grow revenue and
that you have a path to profitability because early on um you are burning through your ua costs
um to try and get that player growth and you're trying to find that path to stable ltv or and or
and or kak and i think that's the challenge with web3 gaming at the moment is as you know some of
the earlier points web3 games are often limited time short term events right they're not these
always on games yet so it's also a bit of a challenge in terms of then what what to know
how to optimize or you know let's now jump ahead and say you've done your tg and you've got this
token live many games don't have all these operational syncs so and you're playing a slightly
different game when you think about you know like fdv and the liquidity and the way that sort of
world operates it's not you know i just don't think we're there yet where that fdv where the
primary driver of fdv is the number of live players in your game using your token hopefully
in years to come it will be and then as a marketeer it will get a lot easier for to do these
calculations on sort of like your cost of acquisition versus what that ltv value of that
player is so i believe we're going to get there we're just we're just nowhere near there yet at
the moment um so i think for me there is just a lot to be said in the value of you know projects
you know like look at you know look at how sugar town describe themselves you know like they're
the platform to onboard like web 2 gamers into to web 3 i think there is just immense value for
platforms that in the short term are able to crack how to onboard web 2 gamers into web 3
the next phase will be then the monetization model to you know make that that stable balancing you
know ad revenue of whatever then blockchain or crypto elements they put into their game
i've got no doubt that there's going to be just like in web 2 where you've got i don't know
just in hyper casual like i don't know six seven unicorns in that space alone i think you're going
to see exactly the same in web 3 gaming you're going to see six or seven like you know billion
dollar web 3 you know casual games giants i love that just before we go to our final hands john
i know the community yourself including i will be traveling to nft paris later this week and you'll
be hosting an event as well if you just want to touch on some details for what people could be
expecting because bridging community get together is crucial and you know irels activations like
this go a long way so if you want to just touch on it yeah 100 so we're pumped to be hosting
an event on friday and it's about 6 6 p.m local time i think um yeah with some amazing projects
so we're so mocha versa are the main hosts with animoca brands there's metaria there's skyborne
open canvas open canvas rev champion's tactics i feel like i've missed someone else off
but it's just going to be really cool on friday night just kind of vibing all around
all around gaming and i'll i'll post the the link at the top of this but um yeah there's just
you know it's just again great to see nft event and so many great projects and leaders and creators
you know all rallying around gaming as well which is just incredible to see so um yeah hopefully
we'll see as many many people that are going would would love to welcome you at the event on friday
for sure if you're a gamer if you're not a gamer we would love to see you
come come and link me and john the six pictures as close to the timeline uh with the caption web
three gaming is inevitable because why not we do it for the culture right and go into the final
hand feel free to take it away as we wrap it up zaro that's for you guys oh yeah guys i just wanted
to tell you uh thank you so much for this opportunity i got around have my own space
starting soon so it was really nice uh being here and was great to hear all your thoughts so hope
to see you soon and let's stay in touch fantastic look i appreciate everyone who joined us today
on the speaker panel and of course the listener panel and if you dropped a comment down below
i appreciate you you know it's a great day to have a great day seems like we're back
the charts are looking healthy the vibes are looking immaculate levant how do you feel
well uh you know i think we are uh definitely entering another bull run uh ship uh you know
that's what it feels like and you know in terms of gaming uh i think we're going to be seeing the
first really uh the real of every gaming bull run because the first one i think it was kind of like
mostly about funding but this time everyone is uh more interested in the games and
gameplay so uh you know i think uh the future is very bright and uh we're here in the right time
at the right placement so excited the future is definitely looking bright and look what's looking
brighter is the rest of this week today and i'll catch you guys next time take care appreciate