Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Web3 Global Talks 🎙️ Ep.453 - Powered by Match Flow
Recorded: Aug. 21, 2025 Duration: 1:22:09Space Recording
Full Transcription
¿Qué pasa? so
um so
okay Thank you. so
so uh
all right guys welcome in to web3 global talks episode 453 powered by matchflow uh i'm just
still trying to get everybody up here guys so i'm gonna run the song back here for just a second
uh but i will be back uh momentarily in the meantime if you guys could like comment and
reach without the space we definitely appreciate that as well. But yeah, we'll be right back, guys. Thank you. uh
uh Thank you. all right i think we're good to go ahead and get started like i said welcome to web3 global talks
episode 453 powered by matchflow uh if you guys haven't been here before the way i like to start
it off is just kind of do some a round of introductions so about a minute a piece tell
the people who you are and who you're representing and then we will jump into some
questions uh so i'm just going to go top to bottom for this based on my panel uh so trade tomato you
guys are up first you guys there well we may be having already some problems with uh x wouldn't be surprised
uh let's go ahead and go with match flow then oh hello hello everyone okay so we can pass the
the mic to the previous speaker okay yeah no worries so trade tomato i see your hand uh you good man
okay well apparently still not okay that's all right we'll come back to you man go ahead match
flow sure so my name is carol i'm head of bd at matflow we are quant-based market making company
with tradfi background uh we have been in space since 2018. We are currently a top market maker at Binance, Kraken, OKEx, Maxi, and also at Korean Exchanges.
So it's a big pleasure to host you guys.
And I do believe that today's topic will be super inspiring and interesting.
So I'm very curious about the input of the other speakers today.
Yeah, thanks for being here
and helping us out today, man.
Appreciate you.
All right, let's go with Genesis.
Good morning, guys.
Thank you so much for the invite.
My name is Stephanie.
I'm part of the core team of Genesis.
Genesis is a layer one blockchain designed to drive innovation in real world asset tokenization,
decentralized applications, and different financial systems.
We are building an ecosystem that is not only for fast, scalable, secure,
and also focused on bridging traditional industries into Web3.
Our goal is to create technology that solves real problems while empowering builders and
users throughout the ecosystem.
Thank you so much for the opportunity and glad to be here with the rest of the speakers.
Yeah, glad to have you as well.
All right, let's go with Quai Network.
Well, maybe again, come on X, don't be doing this to me.
Well, I saw you guys unmute.
We can't hear you if you are speaking hey yeah it's veronica
behind the quai network account but we have alan to represent us so i would like if you could get
him up to the stage alan or dr hey there we go can you guys hear me okay i can hey man awesome
glad to be up on the space with everyone today my name name is Alan. I'm one of the co-founders of Quai Network.
Quai is a scalable and programmable proof-of-work blockchain where energy meets money.
We are the only proof-of-work blockchain that is high throughput with EVM-compatible smart contracts.
So keeping it OG with the crypto ethos of being proof of work, remaining decentralized, enabling high throughput,
and breaking through some key innovations there.
So excited to chat with the other speakers on the space today.
And yeah, looking forward to jumping in.
Nice. Thanks, Alan.
Okay. I'm going to try to trade tomato one more time.
See if you guys are good.
Hey, can you guys hear me? Hello?
Yeah, you're good awesome
i mean it wouldn't be x without some technical difficulties right but uh no thanks for having
me on stage and hello to everyone tuning in for those who don't know me yet i'm daily bd and core
team member of trade tomato a trading automation platform and trade tomato lets you manage your
and automate your crypto portfolio across CeFi and very soon
we'll be rolling out on-chain automation with our Trade Tomato vaults. So what this essentially
means is that a lot of the manual actions you would usually do while managing your assets
can now be automated. So yeah, delighted to connect and dive into today's discussion.
Nice, thank you man. Okay, and Yom, or Yom? Not quite sure how it's pronounced
out loud. Yeah, it's pronounced Yom. You got it. Hi, everybody. Thanks again for the invite. So,
my name is Jeff Outlaw. I am the Chief Experience Officer at Yom. What Yom is, is we are a
decentralized cloud gaming network. So, we allow-quality, AAA-quality games to stream from our network
to any user on any device
through their internet browser.
It makes it a lot easier to play games off a cloud
and a lot less expensive than a centralized cloud.
Our network is live.
We've got our testnet up and running,
so we have game streaming from our website.
And yeah, so we are a deep end
that's supporting the uh the game
infrastructure we're uh getting ready to do a token launch which is i think why we got invited
and uh happy to talk to you guys and hear all these other uh projects about their token plans
nice thank you man all right uh let's go with earthlings. Hey, thanks for having us.
This is Joe from Earthlings.land.
We started in June of 2022 building an open world game meant for gamers. And our crypto gaming aspect is built on Hedera.
crypto gaming aspect is built on Hedera. So we are just over three years in with some beta going
live and hopefully in Q4. And in the meantime, we've built some mobile games for our community.
We have a studio of about 35 people right now building. So we've already launched a token, but we have some different
fun aspects going into our game once it's live. So exciting to talk with everybody today.
Hey, thank you, man. All right. And let's go with Benjamin.
Hey, I'm here joining from Governor Protocol today.
We are not a layer 2, we are not a blockchain, we are a general message parsing platform.
And we bring Bitcoin DeFi to every single chain.
That means that we unlock $3 trillion worth of value.
There's a number of different mvps that we've launched first being just pay where
we've locked uh half a trillion dollars worth of value into the ordinals ecosystem through our
partners ordinals bot and we are launching our flagship product governor diamond hands
where you are able to utilize your bitcoin as collateral in a maker style cdp and put that value on whichever chain
you wish to engage in so uh yeah we're breaking down the barriers to chain fragmentation
nice thank you benjamin appreciate you man all right guys well i think we can go ahead and jump
into the questions today uh you guys have seen the questions, but we're talking about fair launches and token launches a bit today.
So the first question is, are fair launches truly fair, or do they just privilege insiders with bots, liquidity, and better information?
So a bit of a controversial take on fair launches, I suppose.
So maybe we'll get some different opinions here.
And we'll go off of a hand raise, guys.
So the heart at the bottom and the hand all the way to the right is how you raise your hand if you're not aware.
It's just kind of how I picked the order.
And yeah, Genesis, you guys got the right idea off the bat.
And then Match Flow, then Trade Tomato, then Young.
Yes, it's a very hot topic, especially from a project point of view.
I personally think that fair launches are most of the time well-intentioned, but in practice,
they often lead toward privilege inside people.
While the idea is to give everyone equal access,
in reality, it's not.
And usually, insiders get advantage at the beginning.
But that doesn't mean they have no value.
Furlouches can build strong communities early
and avoid of perception, basically, of busy dumping.
But to be fair, there have to be some mechanisms in place
like anti-bot protection, participation caps, vesting,
and other transparent distribution system at the end of the round.
So I think by having, you know, organized structure, it can lead to benefit towards the community and the project itself.
But it needs to be transparent
yeah i think i actually agree with that a lot um you know i don't see a lot of the safeguards
being put in place like they should be a lot of the times um you know i'm kind of surprised more
tokens don't do like vesting periods anymore that was like a thing for quite a while i know i remember for example where when
cardano uh first launched back in i think it was 2017 18 if i'm not mistaken um they they did best
and if if i'm not mistaken either their best in period it it was really long. So back in the day, I don't know if you guys have been
have been in the space for early days,
but I've been here since 2015.
So I've seen everything from back in the day.
So there used to be best in
and a more organized structure than now.
So I think in that aspect, there are some areas of improvement.
Yeah, couldn't agree more.
Max, what are your thoughts?
I totally agree with the previous speaker
because she touched almost all the main points regarding the fair lounge.
And I do believe that it's a very good idea to have a fair lounge.
Of course, there might be room for insiders, for people who have better knowledge, but
it's always in the traditional markets or in any markets that you can earn the money that
the best informed people earn the most and take the most of the part but if we
take into account deferred distribution and transparency from the team so if
they deploy anti-sniping measures if the distribution will be transparent, it can make sense. We saw in the past the
big hype on the meme coins, which was the result of the people are getting tired with
the VC hangovers regarding the VC coins that, you know know like almost unlimited vestings for the next
three four five years with the big inflation so it is the very good to have the fair launch
and I do believe that it might be the future of the crypto but we need to take into account
a few points so for example anti-bot measures because you know like implementing the for example the first one or two
minutes halt of the trades can easily reduce most of the bots for example implement some maximum
trading amount within the first seconds or few minutes for example blacklist the bots from banana gun or
other big sniping bots so having this in mind we can definitely increase the
level of transparency and fairness of this of this launches and in my opinion
people love that they do have this kind of opportunity to build the community to
have skin the game since the beginning so they are not late in their perception so there are
no vc hangovers and it is super popular right now and i do believe that it was one of the most
right now and i do believe that it was one of the most uh it was the biggest reason behind the
meme coin hype that the people as a retail investors felt that they are not too late that
they have the same level of entrance and they have the same right as other people
yeah you know i tend to agree that they're great.
I mean, I've been involved in a few.
I've also, you know, I've been a part of some where it kind of went sideways,
especially from, like, you know, not having any anti-bot thing.
That feels really bad.
You know, I think everybody can kind of agree with that.
It's not very fun to be a part of something like that at the beginning.
But, yeah, you know, if they're competent, if the team is competent, you know, a fair launch is the way
to go, I think, at least going forward. I like to be involved in them that way. You know, I don't
really, I actually kind of, and, you know, maybe this is bad on my end, but like, if a project has
had like, you know, 15 private raises private raises like i'm not as interested in
their token because i know that all those people got in you know super early and on the ground
floor and they're just going to dump on me right away uh unless they're vested right unless it's
like a really long kind of a period of time but you know most of the time that's actually not the
case uh and it's usually like their friends and stuff they get in and then of course you know
they make their money and you get screwed essentially
But yeah, thank you man
Trade Tomato, what are your thoughts?
I mean, I definitely agree with the points the other speakers made
Previously about like how we can actually make fair launches fair
But let's be honest fair launches haven't been really been fair in a long time. I feel
They've gotten better at looking fair. You slap no presale, no VC on it and drop the token.
But within seconds, it's just bought it by insiders or liquidity snipers.
And it's not about fairness, it's about access at that point.
And access is never really equal.
And if you're working a nine to five and trying to participate through your phone, usually you're going to be the
exit liquidity, the tools and knowledge and just liquidity,
it's all still in the hands of the few. So calling it fair,
it's kind of like calling speed chess fair because everyone has
a clock. Sure, one side is playing blindfolded. But that
said, the nuance of some projects using fair launches to signal ethos and community-first values, it's valid, but it should not be confused with actual level playing fields.
Our founders saw across traditional and crypto markets,
how automation just reshaped the playing field,
and how impossible it was for retail traders to just keep up.
We built the tools to give them that power.
If bots are already eating,
why not give the average trader access to those bots too?
Sure, the liquidity piece is its own conversation,
but let's be real, if algo traders are in your token,
there's volume
there's movement and that's not necessarily a bad thing i mean the market's evolving and
instead of crying foul we're giving people a way to compete
yeah i mean to be honest with you man um you know sometimes you got to adapt to the game right i
mean you got to play the game uh to win the game essentially yeah i mean you kind to adapt to the game, right? I mean, you got to play the game to win the game, essentially.
Yeah, I mean, you kind of have to really educate yourself on what you're up against and then see the tools that are available to you.
And, of course, you know, that's still going to favor people who can –
I was about to be really rude and say can read and learn things.
But, I mean, that's kind of true, right?
You know, I think a lot of the times like, you know,
is it fair that somebody who had knowledge had a, you know,
an upper hand against you?
And I would say no.
I mean, you know, I mean, yes, I would say yes.
You know, obviously they put in the work to kind of know what's going on.
I mean, you know, an advantage,
I guess it's a fine line is what I'm saying is between is an advantage and unfair advantage, or is it just an advantage? Right. And I guess that kind of comes down to, you know, kind of
how you view the situation. But I mean, it's like, you know, that information was available to
everybody. If we're talking about, you know, if it was like an insider team or whatever,
or they got their
friends on gave them the contract early and you start to see buys before you
know you've even seen the live contract we're obviously talking about a
different situation but you know if from that point on it's just a free-for-all
then it's a free-for-all right I mean just kind of is what it is but yeah
thank you man all right yeah yeah yeah and that what trade tomatoes sounds like
what they've created there is something super valuable um yeah when we look at a fair i mean
it's easy to see which trades are which uh which launches are not fair launches right that's the
um those kind of stick stick right out immediately i think when we think about our launch we our launch, we're pushing for as fair as possible
because it helps us.
We're incentivized very strongly.
As a D-PIN, right,
we need to protect our token price
from spikes and drops
because our network is powered
by people who have gaming rigs
and we pay them with our token.
So if there's a massive drop in the value,
then they abandon their place, their node on the network, and then our network is hobbled.
So we have a lot of incentives.
In the case of our project, and I think most deep pins are in the same boat, right?
Have to keep a fair launch, have to keep the token price supported, and don't really, as much as we like to have a bunch of money in the bank, we don't really want a high spike because we know what follows a high spike is a big drop.
Slow and steady wins the race for a project like ours, which is why we're heavily incentivized to find every possible way to make sure that our launch is as fair as possible.
It's kind of the way that we look at it over here.
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of the way that you know i think most people should look at it i don't think
anybody except for well i would say i would say anybody who's serious right i mean of course memes
would probably not mind an extreme spike yeah yeah and i mean you know that's kind of all that
they have going for them anyways is you know price go up uh and people get wrecked i mean it's kind
of the idea behind a
meme, right? Essentially, when you boil it down to brass tacks. But yeah, if you're building for
the long term, of course, you would want something or, you know, a way to launch that makes sense and
is good for the long term, healthier project. Because, you know, a lot of the times that's
not being considered in the space, clearly. I mean, how many good ideas went by the wayside just because the launch was botched or because they had like, you know, backroom deals with VCs who were not all created equal, by the way, which I've said in multiple spaces.
You know, there's other things you have to account for.
So, but yeah, perfectly good point, man.
All right.
Let's go with Alan.
Yeah, I think it's a very nuanced conversation and as
one of the earlier speakers talked about we've seen a lot of evolutions from the earlier days
in crypto whenever a fair launch still had months to get visibility and get people to participate
and now it feels like a fair launch on a meme coin on Solana happens in 10 seconds, if not less,
due to snipers and bots and the like.
And so we've seen just the attention span of people and the willingness to have people shout
if things are fair or not really get confusing to the sense of everyone in the space.
And I think that just the velocity of everything has increased so much.
And so from my perspective, really, I think it depends on what people are building, right? And how fair it is whenever you discover it and what you find yourself getting in on the project with
its growth curve. Really thinking things about exit liquidity and, you know, are you timing this right? Or are you, you know,
getting in ahead of XYZ private group, I think it's kind of a wrong framing in crypto. And we
shouldn't be thinking about that. We should be thinking about how do we create sustainable growth
models? How do we create long lasting projects to where that doesn't matter? And that's not
something that we have to think about whenever we're saying, okay, is this fair?
Well, it's fair whenever you find it, and it's fair as the system is designed to continue with growth and have a project that is long-lasting with other sort of incentive models and things built into it to help with community adoption.
So I think it's all about, again, thinking about the concept of fairness.
Obviously, in different token emission models, you can perceive fairness differently.
For QI, since it is a proof of work system, you have that ability to have that tangible input cost from miners so that miners can come in and mine it in a way that is completely censorship resistant and anyone can join the network and mine with a GPU.
And so that is different than potentially having to buy
or do something else to gain access to the token. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there's different
ways to go about launches and things like that as well. I mean, obviously, you know, a fair launch
isn't the only way. And yeah, I mean, the elephant in the room, man, it's like, obviously, you know,
as an industry, we should be looking towards, you know, more sustainable
long-term growth. You know, obviously not just trying to get as much hype as possible at the
beginning to get people in. I mean, you know, that's kind of how the way the world is right
now in the space, I suppose. But, you know, in a perfect world, that wouldn't really matter
in the long term. You know, people would just be able to get in when they get
in. And it's a good product, right, and continues to succeed after that. I think it's just a kind of
a, I don't know, a symptom of the low attention economy that a lot of people have right now.
But you know, who knows how that will change, especially as we become a little bit less
speculative and things, which, you know, I've heard a lot of people are pretty optimistic that we're headed towards less speculation over time.
But then I've also heard the argument, of course, you know, that's kind of like the bread and butter of crypto and why a lot of people like it.
But I think that that speculative thing should kind of start sticking more towards the casino side of things is what I call it, like the meme tokens and things like that.
more towards the casino side of things is what I call it.
Like the meme tokens and things like that.
And, and projects who are actually building for the longterm have a better
chance of, you know, succeeding for the longterm. But, you know, we'll see,
maybe it's a pipe dream, but yeah, thank you, Alan.
All right. Let's go with earthlings.
Hey, so yeah, I, I think fair launch is kind of a misnomer.
Some people might argue with that, but as I think fair launch is kind of a misnomer. Some people might argue with that.
But as I said earlier, you have people, if they study up and they're prepared and they have money,
they're probably going to have an advantage even if the brand or the business isn't specifically handing them an advantage.
We took no VC funding. We did no real private sale rounds other than to some people that were already on our team.
But we launched our token in a format that gave everyone equal opportunity, but they had to have the money to participate.
So we didn't have any behind closed doors deals. It was all out in an INO and ICO where people were
offered the opportunity to buy discounts with long-term vesting. Give an example, the people
that first supported us through the purchase of our Founder Card NFTs in June of 2022 still haven't received their vested allocation of tokens.
So it is a long-term vesting proposition.
So when you look at things like that, what's fair and what's not?
And everybody wants to play all equal opportunity decentralized world.
But, you know, from the aspect of no centralized control tokens, we're building a game
that our token is the operating token of the entire game. So it is the currency of the game.
If we were to divide those tokens up equally and fairly, we wouldn't be able to have entire game. So it is the currency of the game. If we were to divide those tokens
up equally and fairly, we wouldn't be able to have a game. So in a sense that it's fair for all,
it's kind of impossible when you're working with a business that is in a capitalistic society,
but wants to be a free game for everyone to play and earn.
So from that aspect, I look at it one way,
and from somebody mentioned the meme launches.
A lot of these launches have bonding curves
and some liquidities provided during the bonding curve,
but you can't beat the bots unless you yourself are participating in a bot or using
your own bot. So that's where I say misnomer. You can't call something a fair launch if you're
sitting on your phone trying to compete with people that have the upper hand. Whether or not
they know the second the token's launching, their bot's going to figure out the way to, quote unquote,
snipe the token. So it's kind of a catch-all phrase, fair launch. But that's my take on it.
I'll stop rambling. Yeah, man, fair enough take, honestly. I mean, you know, yeah, it's probably more, I guess a fair term to use would be fair in quotation marks.
Yeah, you know, fair as in, you know, everybody knows the kind of shady things that are going on.
It has access to the same kind of technology.
Then you could call it fair.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, of course, you know, like you're saying, an open ICO is definitely another way to do things that we've definitely seen work out.
And, you know, it sounds like you guys have a good vesting period as well that kind of makes sense for everybody.
That's what I was talking about was, you know, I found it weird that nobody does vesting periods anymore.
And I think it makes a lot of sense, especially if you want to attract people who actually believe in what you're doing for the long term.
I mean, it only just it only makes sense to me personally.
And I'm surprised I don't see it more often, but yeah, good point, man.
All right.
Benjamin, you're up now.
Hey, I just like to just thank everybody for such an engaging conversation, really. It's a really tough space to try and talk about this
because tokens mean a lot of different things,
and we've crossed the spectrum now of tokens
that are being used as game facilitators and game tokens
versus security tokens,
not security tokens per se, but tokens that are utility tokens
or have other some kind of utilization involved in that,
or meme coin tokens that are just coming to market
in terms of 100% of supply all up front
and you're kind of out there in the space.
I think the really kind of key question here is not necessarily
how do we make token launches fair,
but more to the point is how do we make sure that people understand
People understand what they're buying and not all tokens are the same.
what they're buying and not all tokens are the same.
Because there's a very big difference between buying Bitcoin and buying a meme coin.
What we've seen in those early iterations of the ICOos back in 2017 is that people looked at bitcoin and
was like oh that's far too expensive i can't afford that so i'm going to go down the the market cap
curve and here's xrp for example and there we go i'll buy some of that and i'll buy some eos and
i'll buy some other different things they really didn't do their research into what
it exactly is that they are buying so not only would i like to see like a movement towards more
open platforms to be able to kind of launch these but also less fear from those platforms in terms of what they're
actually going to be propagating. We've obviously seen a number of different ICOs launch in the last
kind of six months that have been massively oversubscribed. We've also seen some ICOs and
some other type of launches that have done incredibly poorly. One of the
challenges here is that the platforms themselves tend to be VC-backed projects. And funnily enough,
the VC-backed project token launches are only pumping the projects that they've been involved in and pumping their own bags.
So how do we actually have a token platform that is open, that is enabled to kind of be a protocol-led position
that allows people to kind of come and do whatever they want?
And, you know, in that respect,
maybe something like Pump is a really open position.
Because although everybody knows what it is, everybody knows what it is.
And it's not pretending to be anything that it isn't.
So I think people need to really do their homework.
We need to get some way of getting a framework of transparency.
But I guess the most important thing for me
is that the transparency on the token itself,
is people really need to understand what it is that they are buying.
And I say that from looking at a number of different projects
that have raised with equity first, and then have issued token warrants on the
back of it so typically you know what we see in the space is an equity vehicle that's doing a vc
raise that will raise a bunch of equity that equity vehicle controls all of the ip all of the
license all of the brand effectively all of the value, all of the brand, effectively all of the value of that project.
And then they'll be like, oh, and here's the token,
and you can come buy a token and be part of the community,
and we'll love you, and then something bad happens,
and all of the value goes, no, the token's not actually worth anything.
The value's going to get sucked back into the equity position,
and all the token holders will be completely bugged so i would i would love to see a position
where there was a lot more transparency it was very clear in terms of what people were
buying and a differentiation between protocols meme coins equity vehicles that have got tokens
because they're all valid all those things are valid you know you we just need to understand
where the value lies you know like if minecraft issued a token great i'd totally be up for buying
that i'd totally be up for buying that. I understand Minecraft is a privately held entity,
but I'd still want the token.
So that level of transparency would be great.
And people like A16Z have come forwards and said,
you don't have to be a protocol,
you don't have to be a DAO to issue digital content,
and that digital content can be tokens great all for that
but don't let let's not purport tokens to be something that they're not and that's where I
feel fair launches need to get to because people need to really understand what it is that they're
buying understand if they're buying something just because it's fun and they want a piece of history
or if they're buying something because they believe in the project and they think that that project
is going to be supported so yeah look great audience great speaker list appreciate everybody
kind of coming today um i'm interested to hear where things go from here yeah absolutely ben
really great points man you know i don't think I could have said it better myself. And I that That's kind of something that I never really give them
Credit for so that's a pretty good point
Man overall
Earthlings did you want to add something to this point
Yeah that was fantastic
And it really hit home
I come from a banking
A US banking background
And it's
What you said means
Everything to me.
I don't like a bunch of regulations.
When I was working in banking, I didn't like a lot of the regulations that were there.
But there do need to be some guide rails, in my personal opinion.
And I think the biggest one is just assuring that people know what they're buying or what they're getting into because there's so much
deceit and trickery. And it's almost promoted. It's almost condoned in the industry in the name
of decentralization, which I think is soon to be archaic, no matter what people want. I think
decentralization is a great point, but you can't have deceit be the
way of the industry. And when new people come in and I don't want my parents going into a project
and not at least being able to see and agree that, okay, this is what I'm getting into. Let
me click here. Even if they don't read it, it's their own fault. I don't read my Apple terms and conditions, but I click through them. So I agree there need to be some guidelines.
Even if it's basically like Pump, you're getting into a casino that's crazy and it's botted and
people are going to dump on your head. Okay, I read that. Now I know the way of the game.
But it seems to be well hidden with a bunch of brands that seem to try to make themselves well intentioned when it's been stated in here a couple of times that they're not all well intentioned for the end consumer.
And, you know, it's like if I ever try to tell people about crypto in my life, I feel like I have to give them like 15 different caveats.
And then by the time I'm done, I'm just like, I don't know if I want you to get involved in this.
I don't know if I want to be the one who brought you into this, the fold of what we have going on over here a lot of the time.
Just because, you know, I feel like I would be personally responsible anytime they didn't quite understand what went sideways
with something but yeah you know uh it's a bit uh bit of a misnomer i suppose but uh yeah thank you
guys all right well it kind of does transition in a way to our second question uh which i think is
another fundamental question that really needs to be asked a lot more in the space uh and that
question is does it still make sense for projects
to launch tokens early as a fundraising mechanism
or should tokens only come
after proven product market fit?
And yeah, okay.
So it's Alan so far,
then Genesis and Trade Tomato and Matchflow.
Yeah, I just think the crypto industry
has matured way beyond the point
of launching tokens early and having a lack of either product market fit or a lack of sufficient development to support that vision and that project.
list. We've gotten to the point now where institutions are looking at this. And as you
guys talked about disclosures, people that are not as familiar with the crypto space kind of coming
in, seeing a wild west and unsure of what they're buying or what they're getting into. So I think
you really do need a robust community support and plan and idea ahead of token launch. And I think
that there are many other ways to fundraise outside of just a token launch.
And there are many other ways to get capital for an idea.
And there are many ideas out there.
So it's not as much of the idea that requires the fundraising, but rather the actual execution
and the plan and the go-to-market around that product and what you're sort of building for
that future value.
So, you know, from my opinion,
yeah, I mean, I think those days are gone. I think it's a different kind of story for looking at a
meme coin and things that happen more organically, and things that kind of emerge with different
communities around them. But the fundraising landscape has changed, and it definitely has a
higher bar. Yeah, as it should, right?
At least in my opinion.
And, you know, I think that it's gone by the wayside a little bit where you could just ride off of hype completely or ride off of a roadmap that you had no intention of really ever reaching the end of or even the beginning of in a lot of cases.
So, you know, good riddance.
I hope that we're headed towards
The right way to do things around here, but uh, yeah, thank you
Trade tomato
Believe Genesis was next but I don't mind going next. It's
Oh, yeah, I'm sorry guys
Genesis did you want to go
Yes, um yeah i'm sorry guys uh genesis did you want to go yes um as as you want trade tomato like i don't i
don't mind if you go first it's fine we all will have the chance to talk so go ahead first i appreciate
it thank you so much i mean i think it just ties into what benjamin and earthling was saying about
just the intention behind the project you know I lean heavily towards just launching after product market fit,
or at the very least, after proving real usage or demand.
And I'm sure most of us have experienced token launches
where it felt like they were asking people to buy a movie ticket
before the script was even written, you know?
So, sure, there's a case for using tokens to bootstrap early network effects or just reward early adopters.
But too often tokens are just used to raise money quickly before there's even a product worth using.
That's how you get broken incentives.
Teams get rich, then lose urgency to ship, and the market is just catching on.
There's a to ship and the market is just catching on. There's a shift happening.
As I don't know who it was, Alan mentioned.
Yeah, there's definitely a shift happening.
People are asking, what does this token do?
And not just Wenmoon.
In traditional markets, when raising money with VC investors, at least they're breathing
down your neck.
There's some accountability there. Whereas with a lot of these token launches,
it doesn't feel the same.
And sure, in some cases it can,
but there's no legal binding contracts,
so it's still quite a gray area.
And the space has definitely been
tarnished by those who just end up running away.
Personally, I'd love to see more projects hold off,
build in public, test assumptions, and then drop a token once it actually matters.
And yeah, maybe that takes longer, but I think it also attracts the right people and gives you something real to build on.
I mean, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think once you get to a certain point in the space after you've been here for a really long time,
I don't know about you guys, but I mean mean i don't even like to consider looking at a project if i
see that they have a token but they don't have anything uh actually tangible to go off of because
we've all been a part of that right where it's like okay yeah exactly what you're saying man they
get rich right off the bat from the token launch uh and they have literally zero incentive to
continue doing uh what the hell
they set out to do. Right. And some people did that in a serial fashion for a really long time.
I mean, they would come up with an idea, you know, talk about it a lot. And then they would
just do serial new launches like all the time. Every month you would have a new launch from
the same people and you start to ask like, OK, don't you't you have like, aren't you running like four projects right now?
Aren't you supposed to be working on these other projects? And then, you know,
it's just, it's insane. Uh,
and I think that's a factor of the wild west kind of mentality that was there
for a long time. Uh, I mean, I'm sure it still exists,
but I don't even run in those circles anymore or even kind of look around that.
So yeah, I agree, man. It man it's just uh it's indicative of
uh a problem more than it is anything else but uh yeah thank you man uh genesis
um hi i couldn't agree more with the earliest speakers uh it it depends i think heavily on the project goals because early token launches as Alan, I think it was
Alan that was mentioned that can, or Trade Tomato, it can help bootstraps community,
it create liquidity and it fund in a way development, especially when the projects
don't want too much VC involvement.
However, you are risking diluting the credibility, as Stray Tomatoes says,
if there's no product to back the token.
So on the other hand, I think it has a stronger fundamental if the project waits until they have at least an MVP that people can test, because it
will build long-term sustainability. But it can also lead to early community momentum. So I think having a balanced approach
in a way that we can design token launches
along with utility investing and governance models
can create a more, a stronger plateau for the project.
So I'm in between. or a stronger plateau for the project.
So I'm in between, I understand both point of view.
Yeah, that's fair enough. And sorry, I only caught like the last half of that
cause I actually DC'd for a second.
So I had to add myself back up here,
but as a redundancy in the co-host spot,
but thank you, ma'am. Allhost spot. But thank you, man.
All right, let's go with Matchflow.
The overuse of the early fundraising
was definitely very visible and very striking in the past.
I do believe as Alan said that we are like
in the definitely much more advanced market and
our web-free REI is definitely well developed and more people are aware.
So there is definitely less room for such initiatives. In my opinion, we are all tired of empty promises and not delivering the roadmaps after early
fundraising.
And I do also see the point of the projects that they do not have capital, they are not
able to deploy their own money, but it should be maybe 1-2% of the cases.
It should be always reasonable compromise
between those two approaches.
But currently it's relatively easy to earn the money
and to get the fundraising for the good product feed
and if you have a good quality team.
So we see that this kind of behaviors and trends will probably decrease in the future.
And I see some kind of companies that they want to address that.
So for example, I perceive this kind of Legion CC, the VC that is based on the community.
Of course, it's still you need to get there and you need to be approved by the people
from the community.
But this is the people who are aware what do they should take care of?
care of what do they should verify from the point of view because currently I have impression
What do they should verify from their point of view?
that most of the early fundraising are ending up with the rug pull you know that the people
are not delivering anything they are only spending the money that they receive and not providing any
available product or market fit market fit product in the future so by default by default it it should
be uh eliminated in the future as market is very mature and it's relatively easy to uh fundraise
the money from for more professional investors and companies.
But from case to case, I do also see the room
that quality teams might fundraise the money
at the early stage of the project
without having valuable product,
but it should be exception, not the main rule.
Yeah, I mean, that's a fair point. I think, you know, in that regard, you would almost be going
off of reputation. So, you know, I can see that for somebody who's been successful before,
and maybe is still successful and starting a different project, you know, I might be more
willing to kind of bootstrap and fundraise it from that regard. But yeah, I mean, you know,
I guess it just kind
of depends on what you have going on. I think as time goes on, and the competition gets a bit more
stiff, you know, it you will have to have something that's product market fit and ready to go. Because
if you don't, somebody probably does, right. And you're going to be competing a lot of the times
for the same kind of, you know, project or depending on what you're doing.
So, you know, it's just going to naturally, I think, kind of go by the wayside a little bit more.
That whole like, you know, proof of concept is OK to drive with once it gets a little bit more consolidated and there's a lot more competition in the space.
And I think we're already kind of seeing it, to be honest.
And I think we're already kind of seeing it, to be honest. But yeah, thank you, man.
But, yeah, thank you, man.
Jan, you're up.
Yeah, I can't really argue with much of what everybody's already saying.
And I want to think that we talk about the maturity of the market, the lessons learned by all the investors who are currently in.
You'd expect that they're going to get better and better about not getting pulled into a fundraising token that just rugs them.
But I don't think we're, I wish we could say that we're completely out of that.
But as new people come into crypto for the first time, unfortunately, they're probably going to get sucked into some of these things too. us who are doing a very real project that we not call out necessarily, but work hard
to show a broadcast that this is a real thing and the token has real utility.
It's not just a fundraising mechanism or not a fundraising mechanism at all, but a part
of the project itself, a utility that it forms a very important function in your project. So if you can broadcast that and we can get more projects that are real like this,
and you would expect that we'd see less and less of the rug pulls.
As new people come into the crypto space and they're seeing it for the first time,
you'd hope that there wouldn't be a crowded place with a lot of rug pulls,
a lot of vaporware being shown to everybody
and market hype without any kind of real product backing it up.
I want to think that that's going to be the case.
I feel like the optimism that was shared
at the very beginning of answering this question,
I want to share it too,
but I've also got a wallet full of NFTs that are useless
that I think, you know,
I still want to go back to those days. And I hope that nobody has to learn the lessons the hard way like some of us have done.
I, too, am a man with a wallet full of useless NFTs.
So, yeah, man, I'm right there with you.
You know, I think we all are to some extent.
And unfortunately, I think that we all had to learn the hard way, right?
I hope that as well, you know, not everybody has to learn the hard way moving forward. That's why
I was saying, you know, like, as you're here for a longer time, you start to be able to call out
the BS a lot easier. You know, you start to kind of see trends and stuff that you want to avoid.
But yeah, you know, there's always a new person, fresh off the boat so to speak coming in here and that's why i think you know we have to do our
part i dropped on me i'm not sure you've dropped on everybody but the mid-sentence i lost your your
vocals oh great can you guys hear me now yeah you're clear okay um yeah i don't know what's
going on guys that's why i kind of added myself as the co-host here
But yeah, I mean I was just saying
Essentially, you know, unfortunately a lot of us
Had to learn the hard way
And I'm also hopeful that not everybody does
Going forward as well
And we need to do our part essentially to
Not just tell people to do their own research
But help them do their research
Which I've said before in other spaces
So yeah, thank you man Alright, Earthlings, you're up man help them do their research, which I've said before in other spaces. So, yeah.
Thank you, man.
All right.
Earthlings, you're up, man.
Yeah.
It's tough for me because I'd like to say we are the exception.
We started as a boutique company with an idea that had never been a studio before.
So, we had three options. We could take
Vampire VC money. We started on Hedera for a very specific reason. It was a long-term vision.
So the second option was to go to move to a hype chain and get money, which we were offered several times and refused.
And the third option for us was to be very clear with our community that we'd grown
to thousands of people that, hey, this is a multi-year, multi-million dollar build.
And if we're going to do it, it's going to be with the help of you all.
So we launched the token and we launched some NFTs.
And I understand that a lot of these turn out to be rugs, but we try to be very upfront and clear
in the very beginning. And we've put all of the money that we raised back into the business.
So no vacations, no after conference parties with open bars and dancing people.
We've tried to be very frugal with the money, and our burn rate is about a quarter of what most gaming studios is.
But we couldn't have done it.
So people can say all you want about there's easy ways to raise money.
about there's easy ways to raise money.
There's not easy ways for a studio that has no track record
to get $7 million to build a game.
So how are you going to do it?
You build a community and hope that they believe in you,
which is what we've done,
and it's gotten us to the point where we are now.
And we've watched two giant, one specific giant gaming studio come in to
compete with us that has a history of AAA gaming and has household, not crypto names,
but household names in the gaming industry who got millions and millions of dollars in funding
and had the track record.
And they've been gone for over a year now.
So there, there are exceptions.
So I don't like when people put a hard line on that because we were proving to be one of the exceptions.
So yeah, I understand the part where it's scary and there are rugs, but there are also
people that are proving that it can be done that way with the community.
And hopefully in the long run,
it is the community that wins.
Yeah, I mean, I can agree with that, man.
You know, certain things definitely take
a longer development cycle.
I've actually said it before,
but I kind of feel bad for the Web3 gaming projects
that are over here that are trying to
actually make Web3 gaming not suck because, you know, obviously you guys have an uphill battle
from some of the earlier projects and how they've colored Web3 gaming. I think not only for people
who are over here, but the general gaming audience, I mean, it's kind of created an uphill battle,
right? And it's a bit unfortunate as well that people don't understand
that building games is probably one of the longest development cycles there is i mean like you know
five to six years is not unheard of to make a game uh which you know a lot of people get really
impatient uh and i think a lot of people yeah you know i think gamers understand it takes a long time
to develop a game because you know they've been here they've been playing games their whole life uh you kind of start to understand like you know especially
uh a more involved game it's going to take longer people who uh are just more into crypto tend to be
like well you know why isn't the game released next month and it's like well because it takes
a very very very long time uh so you know i could definitely see uh in a gaming situation
how you would bootstrap a little early uh without you know having a completed game because obviously
you'd be waiting for you know half a decade right so yeah fair enough man uh benjamin what are your
thoughts man let me be a bit controversial and say I pretty much disagree with everybody apart from Earthling.
Right?
And that is the, you know, how do I say this?
There are so many different ways that I could frame this and kind of position my argument.
Let's rewind the clock, right?
One of the best, most growth-intensive periods of human history
was the mid to late 80s with Thatcher and Reagan
when things were coming through,
up until probably just just before enron and i i used enron as a line
in the sand because after enron we had a piece of regulation called sarbanes oxley
prior to sarbanes oxley ico's were used as a primary capital event where companies could come
as a primary capital event where companies could come to the market and that market was
small but it was open and people could use that activity to put their shares out onto
the market and at some point in time like there were a number of different rug pulls
and um like bad actors happened and then all of a sudden we entered in the US
where you could only enter into early venture deals
if you were already rich and an accredited investor
and or had like VCs or insider connections.
And we ran for the best part of 25 years
before ICOs came to the table and said, you know what?
We're breaking that model.
We're enabling now 8 billion people around the world to come and support various different things and various different like Kickstarter and other different things that we're
looking to do physical products and other different kind of positions in terms of the
digital space with the ICO space where we maybe got it right and maybe got it wrong is one I think we
shouldn't be in that position where accredited investors are the only people that are allowed
to invest in risky ventures because I believe that if you are intelligent enough and you're
university and you've got like deep knowledge into a specific field then you are the expert in that room and it doesn't matter how much
money or bank what your bank account is to to validate that you should be allowed to invest
or not should be allowed but nobody should get in your way of putting your risk capital where you
believe the future is going to lie. And so I fundamentally disagree with accredited institutional investments,
accredited investors,
and I believe that token models are the way forwards in terms of making sure
that we've got good sound abilities to kind of do this.
It all drives back to my fact that people need to understand what they're
playing.
They need to do their own research.
And if you think you're going to ape into a token at $1 and sell it next week for a million dollars,
well, then you're an absolute smooth brain.
I'm sorry.
But we don't need Fred from compliance telling us that we can't do it for our own good.
Right? Fred from compliance telling us that we can't do it for our own good. Right. Case in point, the FCA banned pension funds from entering into Bitcoin and Ethereum and various other different ETNs that existed in the market in 2019.
Bitcoin was $20,000 when that happened. They're now just
saying, well, we've done our research and we now think that come October, you'll be able to
invest in Bitcoin and Ethereum through ETNs, through other various different places.
The pension limit in the UK is £ 40 000 pounds investment that could potentially be
invested for those five years you could invest 200 000 pounds right and what you're looking at
now is a 10x so that 200 000 pounds could if you put it all into bitcoin have been like two million bucks. So you could have put 200,000 pounds into Bitcoin,
which is obviously a really relatively safe,
increasingly less volatile asset,
much less volatile than all these other different coins
that we're launching at the moment.
And you could have 10 extra money.
And it is really bad that we are putting the future of our growth
into the hands of these people that aren't as competent as us
in terms of making the assessment and the risk decisions from there.
So I fundamentally don't believe that VCs and people should be given early access.
If they want to take early
access, absolutely let them, but they should not be allowed, and which they are today, to front run
me, you, and everybody else on this call. There is something fundamentally wrong with that,
and what we're all saying here up until Earthling earthling got got the mic was like yeah we're
really happy with that please come and let us be exit liquidity you know let's let's all let the
vcs and the the various different kind of early people that have all got insider connections etc
come to the table um build various different positions and front run us now i'm not saying that vcs do not
add value they add a lot of value and that value needs to be recognized but their value needs to be
um contrast with the value that other people in community are going to be bringing to the table. And I guess I'll close out on,
on one last kind of anecdote.
And,
you know,
I think we're probably all massive fans of the Marvel universe and various
different things that have happened over the last 10 years.
Right.
The Deadpool franchise would not have happened if it hadn't been for community,
if it hadn't been for the if it hadn't been for the
community saying absolutely we want this movie to be to be created years and years and years and
years went through with a centralized party saying oh it's a bit risky we don't like that
and it's turned into one of the greatest branches of the marvel universe that exists at this moment
in time the power of crowds is really
important i'm not disputing the power of vcs but we need to find some way to balance that and make
sure that we can move forwards and if i'm given an opportunity like i want to put money into a
gentic right i am mad to put money into a gentic at the moment. Amazon has invested billions, Google's invested in billions. You know, I just can't, I can't do it. There is no vehicle for me to put money and
put risk capital at Gentic at the moment. But if I was a VC looking to put another billion dollars
in, there'd be a ticket for me. So like, it drives me mad that as a community, as a smart community, we're happy to accept this asymmetric risk position and be exit liquidity for all these different people.
When we've proven that when we open the markets up to the public good, like we did back in the 80s and early 90s, amazing things can happen.
And yeah, we're going to get a lot lot of failures but sorry but that's just startups in
general you've got to take the rough with the smooth guys so you know we want more startups
we want more risk capital we want more tokens we want more transparency and if people can do their
own research and we can kind of put that level of transparency on i think we're off to the races in terms of having
some amazing things coming out of this space yeah i mean very well said ben you know i don't think
that i fundamentally disagree with you at all man um i think more of what at least for me right what
i'm asking is for more from people who if you're going to start off with a token and it's bootstrapped, right,
to have an actual product,
at least in the periphery, right,
at least like very soon,
you know, once you get that funding
or at least we should also have something in place.
And I'm not saying that startups never fail, right?
They absolutely fail.
And even if they put in the effort to do so,
they still fail. And that's why that's
the risk right that is the risk if you if you have started something and you're bootstrapping tokens
you don't have any kind of actual product and this is the important caveat i think you never intended
to actually have a working product there should definitely be some legal recourse.
And I think that's kind of like the main problem that we have over here is there's often just no actual recourse for these people who essentially are scamming people, right?
By bootstrapping liquidity and then never building something and then, you know, just kind of disappearing to the background.
I think that's kind of my only qualm with people who do a lot of early token raises.
But otherwise, man, I do fundamentally agree with you.
I don't think we should be really hoping
that these VCs kind of just come in
and use this as exit liquidity.
I don't think that I would ever make that argument.
So founders definitely need to be held to account.
You need to do what you say you're going to do,
or you need to be really transparent and pivot and make sure that people agree with that pivot absolutely you know i don't
think anybody's saying we're going to build a flying elephant get funded and it's like actually
we've done the maths and the physics and a flying elephant's just not going to work guys but we can
build this lightweight plane that's going to kind of fundamentally kind of do broadly what we said
people are definitely allowed to pivot um it's just it's not it's not an easy it's not an easy
thing to try and regulate right it's not an easy thing to try and regulate and when you're investing
early the most fundamental thing that you should be investing in is the people and that's something
that i think we need to change because if you don't have the ability to get visibility on those
people and for you to be able to say look are these people real are they valid are they bringing
the right skills to the table you know the the non-position that we found ourselves in crypto in the kind of let's say 2018 to 2024 phase
has got to finish it's got to end because um we've got to use people's reputations and historic
kind of applications and uh deliverables as a as a guide to whether they're going to do something right.
And, you know, if we can't do that,
then we shouldn't even really be at the table having a conversation.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I think I made that point myself earlier that, you know,
our reputation is very important.
Like I'm not going to go to a project,
especially if you're a brand new project and you're trying to bootstrap in that way
and i gotta scroll down on your site and i see you know nft profile pictures uh in place of you
yeah no it's just it's an automatic no for me and i think it's been you know yeah just because you've
been burned so many times in the space right by like this whole you know oh anonymous is fine
uh you know i've heard the argument of course, well, some of these people are in places where they can't be as open or whatever and blah,
blah, blah. And I'm like, well, okay, fine. But it's not something I'm really interested in,
if that's the case, just because I have been burned so many times. But I get that argument
as well. It's just not one that jives well personally with me. So, but yeah, great points,
Ben. Awesome. And great points been uh awesome and great points everybody
i appreciate you guys really engaging today it was a really good space um we are a little over
time but that's okay i'm gonna return the floor to you guys like i like to do here at the end
uh which is just to give you the floor again uh you know kind of drive home what you got going on
where people can find you that kind of thing uh and i'm going to start from top to bottom to do this so trade tomato you guys are up man well first thanks for tuning in everyone
i thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and really really glad to have shared the stage with such
great speakers you know trade tomato we're committed to helping you take your first steps
into automating your crypto portfolio either on on-chain and on centralized exchanges.
If you're looking to learn more, feel free to send us a DM
and we'll hook you up with a free upgrade
so you can try some of our advanced tools and features.
And if you've liked what you heard today, like me,
I recommend definitely following all the speakers here
and showing them some love, support, and what they're building.
Really awesome stuff.
Thanks again, everyone, and wishing you all a wonderful rest of your day yeah absolutely good to have you man all right genesis
well thank you guys so much it's been a pleasure sharing with you today and all the speakers point of view really nice to hear and feel free to follow us
along here in in x and in or x profile you'll find or other communication channels we will be speaking and we are invited to Ethereum Latam in November in Brazil.
So we will be there.
One of our platform was launched yesterday.
It's Rulando Fund.
Feel free to follow along in our main channel, Genesis.
And thank you so much for being here.
I appreciate all of you thank you
thank you as well ma'am all right let's go with match flow
um thanks to everybody for participating in today's um today's episode so it was great to
hear your input and it was like very satisfaction satisfaction in terms of having also different point of views.
Feel free to follow us on the Twitter account because we are planning to release and share some presentation and use cases regarding the liquidity and centralized launches.
the liquidity and the centralized launches.
And potentially we also organize the online workshops
in the October or November.
So you can be updated with the information on the Telegram.
Thank you all.
Thank you, sir.
All right, let's go with Quiet Network,
which would be Benjamin, or sorry, which would be, uh, Alan.
Yeah,
everyone.
Thanks for the time today on the space.
Definitely.
A lot of good takes on the topic of fairness and token launches.
Alan,
you just cut out,
man.
I don't know if you cut out for everybody or just me.
let me come back to you in just a second, man. No worries.
Yom, go ahead.
Oh, thanks. Yeah, again, high quality conversation. This has been a really good space. I've been on a lot of them
and I really do enjoy when we've got such heavy thinkers
on the space. Thanks for putting this together. Yeah, I'd encourage everybody to follow us
at Yom, the tele the, um, telegram group, or excuse me, the, the Twitter X, uh, account is
probably the best place to follow us. We're about to drop some pretty big news. Apparently we just,
I just got noticed we've, uh, won a pretty massive, um, opportunity at gamescom today.
So that's some, some good news is dropping. If you're following our Twitter account,
you'll see all that. Um, and we are getting ready to jump into our tg is going to be at the end of uh september we're against times with the fact that
our network is live and now we need to be able to again the utility of the token is required for our
network to be live so encourage you to take a look at our project and and uh hey earthlings i sent you
a message on dms and telegrams. Maybe give that a look.
I'd love to speak to you guys a little bit later on.
Thanks again for having me.
I appreciate it.
Heck, yeah.
That's what this is about, is connecting you guys as well.
And thanks for the kind words, man. I try to make these as good as I can.
So appreciate you.
All right, Alan, sorry X cut you off, man.
You want to try again?
Oof. Yeah, man. You want to try again? Yeah, man. You're completely
silent. X apparently does not
want you to be able to speak about
what you guys have going on.
I will try again at the end one more
time, man, and sorry about that.
Earthlings.
Again, wonderful space.
Time flies when it's a great conversation.
So anytime I'd love to come up and take part in this. You can check out our link tree in our bio. We the opportunity to do that. So don't sleep on Hedera.
I'd be remiss if I didn't give that network a shout out to all the great things and the new builds that are coming.
It's an up-and-comer.
So take a look at that, and I appreciate it, and hope you all have a great rest of your week,
and hope to be up in front of you again soon.
Yeah, thank you, man. All right. And Benjamin, you're up, man.
Hey, look, I really appreciate everybody pitching up.
It's been a really high quality conversation.
Thanks for listening to me rant about my strong biased opinions.
I'm really passionate about this space it means a
lot to the world in terms of how we make things um move forwards um if anybody wants to follow me
do so please follow governor dow which is our project accounts um want to go and check our
token out which is live on a couple of different exchanges. Do so. GVNR, 20 million hard cap fees move into a deflationary burn.
We think we're doing things differently as well.
It's really important.
And just keep on keeping on, guys.
We will come in.
We are coming into this next phase where we're actually going to get support from people
because this is where the growth of the world is going to come from in the next phase.
This and AI, this space is really kind of making it achievable.
I was in, just one final comment, I was in a conversation with UK HMRC about 18 months ago.
And he's like, Ben, we've got really good digital services in the UK.
Why should we bother with tokens?
And my response to that was easy.
It was like, right, today we've got 2 billion people with a Visa card or Mastercard or some other kind of traditional payment model.
traditional payment model crypto enables that to 8 billion people and in the next five years we're
Crypto enables that to 8 billion people.
going to have ai agents robots etc which is going to push that number to 20 billion so if you want
to 20 if you want to 10x your revenue opportunity you need to support crypto you need to support ai
and we need to be building in this space so everybody here is in the right space and
in this space so everybody here is in the right space and it sounds trite given the uh bitcoin
is now 0.1 million dollars per coin um but we're still early so keep on grinding
absolutely thank you benjamin appreciate you man
all right alan i'm gonna give you one more try, man.
Let's see if X wants you to be allowed to talk here.
Okay, well, X has to hate on one person, it seems, in every space.
And Alan, unfortunately, you were the sacrifice.
But yeah, check out Quiet Network, guys.
Alan was great in the space as well.
Thank you, man. I'm so that uh x is doing its thing uh but yeah thanks to all you guys by the way um and
again i encourage you guys to follow each other that's what this is about as well if you want to
connect with anybody uh in the space of course you can ask me in the private groups and stuff
and i can connect you guys uh if you guys want to throw me a follow as well i'm in the co-host spot
i definitely wouldn't mind uh but yeah thanks for Matchflow for helping us out today. Definitely appreciate it.
Help us pay the bills a little bit. And this was Web3 Global Talks episode 453. I'll be back
tomorrow for episode 454. And of course, until then, stay safe, guys. Keep building. And I'll
talk to you guys later. Have a good one.
