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🚨Welcome to the CryptoPulse!
Recorded: March 28, 2025 Duration: 1:58:01Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the implications of GameStop's foray into Bitcoin, signaling a trend of traditional companies embracing cryptocurrency. The conversation also highlighted the competitive landscape of blockchain gaming and the ongoing interest in meme coins, suggesting potential growth opportunities amidst market fluctuations.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I just sent you an invite.
What's going on, everyone?
This is not Kate, by the way.
This is Sam.
So I'm going to be taking over this space today.
But I just sent Kate an invite to come up here.
Catherine, it is a pleasure.
How's everything going today?
It's going pretty well.
How's it going for you?
You know, I'm just living the dream.
Living the dream. What does the going for you? You know, I'm just living the dream. Living the dream.
What does the dream look like? I'm curious.
Well, you know, the dream looks like I wake up, you know, you get to work, you get to live with Cade.
I mean, that's a dream right there.
Okay, but is your wake-up time 4 a.m.? And do you...
Hey, kid.
Yeah, we got you now, kid.
Okay, perfect.
My bad, guys.
I'm on a route.
I'm mobile right now.
Can't be stopped.
Don't worry, kid.
We got it.
Oh, boy.
I'm hearing two Sams right now.
I'm cooked.
I am cooked.
We got the
apartment
taken care of
looks like Sam
how's it going
Catherine
it's going pretty
well I'm excited
about this
Catherine do you
wake up at 4am
is that why you
were saying that
no I was trying
before Kate so
rudely came on
and had the
laptop
I was trying to
make a good
reference but it
failed and it made it sound like I was trying to make a good reference, but it failed.
And it made it sound like I was just judging you
for not being up at 4 a.m.
Yeah, well, I guess for that reference,
I do not wake up at 4 a.m.
I'm usually up until about 3 or 4.
And then, you know, I wake up at around 10.
So I don't know if that's...
That's living the dream in my book.
I don't know about everyone else. But see uh lady trader and um tropic up here as well what's going on everyone
hey thank you so much for having me up here today very excited to have this conversation
no lady trader this is twice in a week we get a talk. I mean, this is just lovely.
It is, yes.
What's going on, Tropic?
Hey, nothing.
How you doing?
Doing pretty good.
Myself, the usuals, you know, the Spaces Tour.
So, yeah, not used to hearing your voice on the account, so that's good to hear.
I know. it's a fresh
start. I mean, we usually
hear Cade, and that's just...
It's never lovely.
Cade, I'll pass this back over
to you, though.
Okay, alright.
I guess we're jumping right into things.
I guess I'll throw it
over to you, Catherine,
to kind of get us started here.
Yeah, so let's go ahead and start doing some introductions, I think,
and then that way we can really get into some topics.
I see Donovan's just joined us.
I see Kate, who will be coming up to speak.
Those are two of my BlockWorks colleagues.
For those of you who don't know me, I of my BlockWorks colleagues. For those of you
who don't know me, I work at BlockWorks. I'm the author of the Empire podcast newsletter,
which comes out every morning. And then let's go to Kate, because she just came up here.
Kate, introduce yourself. Good morning, everybody. My name is Kate Irwin.
I am a journalist at Blockworks, and I am writing The Drop, which is a daily consumer crypto newsletter for traders and collectors covering all things Web3, including gaming, NFTs, and more.
Lady Trader, so nice to be back on the panel with you.
Hey, thank you so much.
Yes, absolutely. And I actually kept going back to our conversation, the previous conversations that we had on this, and I'll bring it up later on. But hey, everybody,
I'm LadyTraderRaw. I am a key opinion leader. I am a content creator, a Web3 advisor, a consultant.
I do a lot of things. I wear so many hats and it's absolutely incredible to be here.
I'm also an investor and I love investing in companies also early stage.
And so, yeah, I'm glad to be here and also an AMA host.
I also do some AMAs on my page as well.
So thank you so much.
Donovan.
Hey, morning, everyone. hey morning everyone um well it's evening where i am in singapore um i write the zero x research newsletter at blockworks so this is a newsletter that's um a little bit more technical i think
than most so we dive into the technology of crypto, blockchain, how does different
technology stacks differ from one another. And we have a lot of different degen trade
ideas on the newsletter. If you're looking to lose more money in crypto, that's a perfect
newsletter for where you can find more ideas on how to ape into
different things that we all know so little about. Yeah, that's me.
And Chavik.
Hey, how you guys doing? I am here. Chavik, just all over the place. I call myself a digital
explorer, usually looking at how all this tech could be used in business. But long story short, I am here in Jamaica. I specialize
in dodging traffic on foot while I'm on spaces. So sorry if you hear a little bit of background
noise, but happy to be here. I was literally just going to say,
are you playing Crossy Road right now? Sounds like you're running.
Yeah, exactly. I really am. i'm at the airport right now but yeah
i uh yeah had to be here though love to be in these conversations
let's get it and i'll do the final one well sam's behind the account today he's
big balling today mr big old sam killing it behind the wolf account but uh yeah'm traveling here. So it's a bit tough on the mobile.
I don't trust the hosting on the phone.
So I am the host of Wolf Crypto Spaces.
Sam is the CMO of Wolf Financial.
He also ran a lot of the Wolf Sports Spaces back in the day.
So I trust him, I guess, you know, behind the accounts.
But yeah, we talk about all things crypto here.
And a lot of the trading, a lot of Bitcoin conversations last week or so.
Catherine, I know you've got some some stories you want to dive into probably the more interesting what i've seen is
it's the whole gamestop conversation and a micro strategy conversation was pretty fascinating to me
as well as watching the stock conversation and now like the strife uh stock that's out now and
so much just speculation all surrounding Bitcoin.
It's just fascinating to me and seeing how this all develops.
I've really been encapsulated by it. We've had so many conversations around it.
But I'll talk to Catherine.
I'm sure she's got other topics she wanted to get into.
Otherwise, happy to open that one up as well.
Oh, my God, Kate.
There's so much news that we need to cover this week.
I really don't know how we're going to do it in an hour.
And I know that both Kate and Donovan have,
as well as myself, but we've all been working tirelessly,
tirelessly trying to cover everything from different angles.
So we can talk about hype.
We can talk about what's going on in gaming.
So I think that's a really interesting space,
especially because we had GDC last week,
and alongside gas.
And so, I don't know, kids. I think we do start with the GameStop stuff though, because there
was, there's a lot to digest there.
And you know, as a journalist who's been in this space, both in crypto and on a
TRIB-Fi, what I have to say is I'm curious to see how this plays out.
Yeah, it's crazy.
I mean, GameStop closing so many stores.
There used to be, I think, like 6,000,
and now there's maybe around 2 000 or 1400 stores like brick and mortar
gamestop stores and gamestop's now picking up bitcoin i mean in 2022 let's not forget they
they dumped 47 million in imx tokens after immutable gave those tokens to them so let's
just let's just not forget about the history here.
Oh yes, indeed. Lady Tray, I want to hear some of your thoughts from this. You came from the TrapFight world. I'm sure you've got some people who are in these conversations. We had a
pretty big conversation with a couple of TrapFight guys in the last Bitcoin space that ended up
turning a bit violent on spaces. But we would love to hear from you on this topic.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's good for Bitcoin, right?
So we were actually, I was discussing it in my community
as well when that news came out
that I think a lot of people,
especially the new investors or new traders,
they don't understand how things work
in the traditional financial
sector, right? So, for example, yes, GME raising funds actually to buy Bitcoin, right? So,
they're actually raising funds. What does that mean? Well, they're going to be diluting the stock.
And so, now, that would mean that it's actually going to hurt the stock owners because then
there's going to be more dilution of the stock. However, it's good for Bitcoin and crypto market when they raised all that money and
when they buy Bitcoin, right? That's good. But then again, we got to remember what has happened
in the past and then also what could happen again in the bear market, right? So next year,
maybe they'll sell everything. And when they do, this is going to start like a cascading effect, because we are at the point where we need to start planning for
next year, which is going to be the barrier. It's going to be a pretty bad year for crypto.
And so what are going to be some of the things that are going to be happening now? When I'm
saying that, just basically considering four-year cycle works out again this time, right? That's
when the four-year cycle predicts that next
year is going to be a red year for crypto. And so all of these things are going to add to that.
But a lot of people are asking me, like people who don't understand a lot of stuff about investment,
they're like, hey, I know you do trades. And do you know about this GME? Is it a good buy? And
should I buy it? Are you buying it? And I'm like, it's a meme stock, I don't buy it.
And so, and then explaining to them how dilution works
and what it could do.
I think that's important.
It's important to educate yourself
because just because something is looking shiny
doesn't mean it's worth buying.
100%, what's up? Oh, go ahead, kid
I didn't know if you were still with him
I was going to say, happy to pass it off to Donathan
Or we're going to move over to the next topic
I know we've flushed this out
Me and Lee Trader have flushed this out in the market talk space as well
So that was the only reason I brought it up
Because it was top of mind
But Catherine, I know you had some stories prepped as well So unless I don't see their hands That was the reason i brought it up and just because it was top of mind but after i know you've had some stories prepped as well so unless i i don't see their hands that was the main reason
i'm happy to jump over to the next story as well i mean i have my two cents on this whole gamestop
thing that throw it in there i think they're fickle i don't think we can trust them to hold
or or do anything i think i think gamestop just, they're sort of doing whatever,
and I personally would not place any wagers on what they're going to do next.
I don't think, like,
given the fact that they dumped tokens in the past,
I would not trust them to commit
to this Bitcoin thing forever,
or to even hold Bitcoin forever.
Yeah, to Kate's point, let's be clear here.
GameStop has been looking for a product market fit for a while. They really haven't found it.
To Lady Trader's point, it's 100% still a meme stock. There's not really much that you can say
about the fundamentals of the stock, even if you are diamond handing it. And going into the Bitcoin part of it,
it's a smart play. There's no denying it. But you do have to wonder, they don't have somebody like
Michael Saylor on the board or as an executive. Ryan Cohen hasn't shown that same support for
Bitcoin. So is it a long term good thing? Just keep that in mind.
We don't know yet. I think they just want money. And so if Bitcoin is the trending thing,
like they'll just do it. Yeah. I wonder what stock or what company will begin to follow.
We saw a cascading number of them happen last cycle just because it became cool. Do you guys
have any thoughts on who you think may follow in these footsteps and try and hop on this trend?
I know a little while ago, Rumble jumped into the Bitcoin conversation.
That was really exciting and kind of opened the door
for a lot of other companies as well.
I think most companies are going to do that, in my opinion.
A lot of companies are going to do that.
And here's the thing too.
Like, yes, we are seeing, just going back to GME,
what they're doing, they're not just going to buy bitcoin based on what they have currently they are actually raising more funds it's like
hey investors give us over a billion dollars so we can put our money into bitcoin so when you give
us more money we're going to put all of that money coming in into bitcoin because guess what bitcoin
is cool we want that and we're going to make a lot of money together. That's what they're doing. They're not just buying, you know,
Bitcoin with what the currently any assets that they may have. Right. And so a lot of companies
would do that because it creates an opportunity for them to go and do additional fundraising.
And investors are dumb enough to give them money, especially in these kind of things happen,
you know, around the top as well. So we just have to watch out for it. When a lot of companies start to raise funding and they're
like, hey, you know what, give us $2 billion. We'll promise we just go and buy Bitcoin. Well,
that's great, you know, but you're diluting your stock now. And so most people are not going to
look into the dilution aspect of it. They're just going to like, oh, yay, Bitcoin, you know what,
this is great. And so it's actually not a good thing because they're raising funds,
they're buying Bitcoin. And then guess what? If Bitcoin doesn't give them, you know, what they are expecting, or if Bitcoin has, you know, a few people have said, hey, you know what, I think
Bitcoin is now looking bearish or magically they just learned about, you know, the four-year cycle
now or before this, they didn't really take it too seriously. They'll just sell Bitcoin. And so
guess what? They took all of the investors' money and they sold the bitcoins that they bought with it right probably at a profit too so i mean all of these
things as investors you got to be cautious about yeah i agree i mean if if your prediction comes
true and like next year is a dark dark market for crypto like another another bearish situation
people definitely won't be be happy I mean, from my understanding,
the way that Wall Street works is we're looking at quarterly expectations and yearly expectations.
And so I think that creates like a like an artificial sense of like, OK, where's the
returns? Where's the returns? And I think with Bitcoin, like, yes, it is arguably the least
volatile cryptocurrency because of its market cap, because of institutional adoption, et cetera, et cetera, it's still subject to various fluctuations. So it's really not a
guarantee that those shareholders will get dividends from this. Tropic?
Yeah, just going to say, I think that really they're just in desperation mode, which is,
you know, understandable.
Anyone who's ever been in business and the industry that you are is either dying or changing.
We saw it with the newspapers and all these other, even cable right now and traditional media.
Right. They're just trying literally anything to be profitable and be relevant and stay alive.
So I understand why they're doing what they're doing.
And the one thing I will say is kind of interesting that Michael Saylor is in their ear. So I don't
know how much weight that plays, but I think that's definitely goes into why they made this
decision. So we'll see how that goes long-term. I want to get a little bit away from the GME and Bitcoin discussion, just because I think that we've kind of flushed it out.
And, you know, if anyone wants to add anything on later on, we can.
But I do want to get to Donovan and talk a little bit more of some more DeFi-centric stories.
Donovan, first of all, I want to ask you what you want to talk about, because I know that you've been covering so much.
But I would like, if we could, to touch a little bit on what happened with Hyperliquid earlier this week,
because I know there's so much confusion on the timeline of what actually happened.
What does it actually mean?
And I know that you are one of the people that we can really fall back on to make us all understand.
fall back on to make us all understand.
Yeah, it's an extremely complex topic and really do understand what's the drama around
hyperliquid.
You really have to understand, you really have to have some expertise over what are the norms with around centralized
exchanges and decentralized exchanges and what's being violated here but i think the long story
short is that what what's really going on here is that you have a decentralized exchange or one that is supposed to be hyperliquid, listed some
meme coins, Jelly, and there was someone who was trying to exploit the prices of the meme
coin on hyperliquid.
And all that is, I suppose it's well within the rules because, well, it's a decentralized exchange.
Anyone can open a wallet, deposit money and try and do a trade.
But what I think is the root of the drama here is that hyperliquid is structured in a way where it has a vault.
And this vault, well, what it's supposed to do
is to kind of backstop any losses to the protocol, to the DEX.
And to put it in very simple terms,
what Hyperliquid did in response to a very big whale that
tried to manipulate the price of jelly was that they overwrote the market
price of the actual meme coin jelly and why is that why why is that uh anathema to uh everything
that crypto stands for and and what are decentralized exchanges well because it's
supposed to be decentralized you're not supposed to do that, right?
You're supposed to let the market play out.
You're supposed to let Oracles,
which is kind of like a piece of infrastructure
that pulls together prices from different avenues.
And Hyperliquid stepped in.
They overwrote the market price with a meme coin
to protect its own users.
And that was bad enough.
But then you had centralized exchanges like BitGet and Binance jumping into the fold and listing the meme coin on their own.
on their own and i believe the bit get one of the big get higher ups c-suite executives weighed in
and criticized hyperliquid so i think it is really just a huge story of how that really brings in the
question how is a decentralized exchange supposed to function um are they supposed to behave like a centralized exchange in in and in the centralized
exchange world if you did this it would be well within uh it will be completely running a file of
regulatory laws so it's it's really a i think it's a real philosophical topic because it goes back to
the root of what these different exchanges,
what they're supposed to do, what they're not supposed to do.
But that is my best attempt at summarizing the drama that was unfolding across DeFi in
the last two days.
That was pretty well done, if you ask me.
Yeah, I thought that the big criticism, which is, and I'll find the tweet in a moment, that basically, to sum it all down, the critique was that Hyperliquid was the next FTX, or was acting like FTX.
Which I think, I mean, I wrote about this in Empire earlier this week. I think, first of all, we have got to stop comparing every single thing that's bad in crypto to FTX. I think there are some good comparisons every once in a while,
but let's let it go.
You know, it's just...
I think it takes away from the story that's happening
when you say, oh, it's just like what Sam Bankman-Free did.
You know, that was horrible enough.
We've got to move forward as an industry.
Yeah, I think the comparison to FTX is very much overblown.
I mean, if you look at FTX, what SBF was doing was that he was taking user deposits
and doing all kinds of high risk trades on the site with with his sister company Alameda Research.
Right. And with Hyperliquid, well, you could argue that Hyperliquid shouldn't have
backstopped the entire market on that particular meme coin. But it was obviously very well
But it was obviously very well intentioned, right?
It protected the users of hyperliquid.
And we could argue that they violated a lot of principles
of what a decentralized exchange should be.
But there's also, I think, a good case for why hyperliquid did
what was best for its own users and not the protocol.
I'm curious if anyone on the panel has any other thoughts that they want to add to this topic.
And if not, there are a couple other news items I'd like to hit.
Okay.
Tropic, I'm actually going to call on you for this next one because we saw yesterday
that, and I'm so sorry if I say it wrong, I think I'm saying it right,
say said that they are putting together a bid for 23andMe, which I think pretty much
everyone knows here.
filed for bankruptcy it's looking to sell itself it obviously owns or has a huge database of
Filed for bankruptcy.
It's looking to sell itself.
people's um you know dna results and whatnot and so it's at least like in the tradfi media there
have been so many discussions on like oh is big pharma gonna go for this like who would be the
buyer and then crypto side of things we now have somebody who's looking to
take ownership of that data for a more decentralized approach and Tropic you responded to a tweet that
I posted on it and I wanted to get a little bit more into your thoughts and why why this struck
you and why why you want to why I guess you responded to my tweet. Yeah, well, it's one of those like weird areas within crypto that no one kind of really talks
about. But a while back, I think it was probably about three years ago, the CEO of GenomesDAO,
I had an interview with him and I spoke to him about all the cool things that's happening.
For trying to summarize everything, what they're doing is, all right, they're sequencing a person's DNA,
which was like a huge breakthrough thing that took billions of dollars through the first one.
Now you could do it for a few hundred dollars and you do the full genomes, but all that data,
of course, obviously links back to a person. So if you're doing marketing, doing different studies
and things, I mean, it's more, it's the best biometric data that you possibly have more than
fingerprints or iris scans or anything. A person'sna is by far the most thing that's going to identify them anywho what they did with that
is they scatter all that that information which i think it's like a couple gigs believe it or not
one person's dna um and they split it up on like these nasa grade things and uh to access it the
person needed to sign it just like any other cryptographic
transaction. I thought that was really interesting because now that person can sell their data. Let's
say Coke or Pepsi was doing a study on, I don't know, let's say millennial males, what their
taste tests are like. You volunteer for that and sell your data. And it was all at the person's
control as opposed to 23andMe, Ancestry, and all those companies that are centralized and so forth.
And the question that was raised up was if one of those goes bankrupt or if they run into monetary problems, what do you think they're going to do?
They're going to sell off all that data.
And that's what's happening right now.
And that's why it struck me because I was like, oh, well, at least a Web3 company that is, in theory, supposed to be about decentralization and security and all those things.
They're the ones who are showing the most interest in it.
So I found that really interesting.
And I think to your point, does this mean, like, should we want a company that is decentralized
to come in and buy up 23andMe in this instance and ensure that that, ensure genetic privacy
for, what what 15 million
Americans I think the post said yeah it's it's I forget the exact number but it is a lot and I
funny enough I think they're only number two uh ancestry I think is much larger but yeah going
back to them uh it it does get a little bit Uh, someone asked me when I brought this up, like, well, what does it matter if your, uh,
genomes or your genetic data is out there for sale?
It's not like it's your credit card number.
No, but it is 100% identifiable for the person.
And if for every reason they, they link it some way back to you, they can definitely
Definitely do some things.
do some things.
It's valuable or else they wouldn't be paying for it.
That's my whole thought.
That's my whole thought.
And I think that this also leads into the larger discussion that I know I've been having on phone calls and stuff, which is M&A season.
And what's interesting, Lady Trader, is that if we see what you think could be a bear market next year, does that mean that we have a smaller window this year for a lot of M&A activity?
So definitely a possibility. That depends. So when you're talking about M&A activities,
are you talking about the traditional financial market or are you talking about crypto?
Crypto. Okay. So yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it could also be expedited, right? Because it's
the red markets and everybody needs support. And I mean, that happens too during the red markets, right? And so potentially that's the case. But also one thing I would like to point out, usually people are not looking at the bear market from like the lens of, okay, how many months usually does the bear market last?
of, okay, how many months usually does the bear market last? So when is actually the bottom in
place? Because, you know, to me, when the bottom is in place, we are technically now in the bull
market, even though it's going to be choppy, it's going to be bad. You know, it's going to be ugly.
Maybe some altcoins are going to have more crashes. But when the Bitcoin bottom is in place,
that's it. To me, that's like the indicator that, okay, now we are moving up. We are not coming
back anymore. We are not creating any more new lows, right? That's the bottom for me that pretty
much marks the bullish territory for me. But for a lot of people, that's not the case. They are
looking at, hey, you know what? We had three years of really awful markets. So they're not looking
at just the bottom of Bitcoin, but I am looking at it. So according to that data,
if let's say we top this year, which, you know, according to my calculation, September or October would likely be the top of Bitcoin this year. And so that's basically what it's going to be.
And then whatever that Monday is, is what the bottom is going to be next year. So imagine a
lot of these people who have previously really gotten into bad market crashes and things like that and not too experienced,
have not really seen multiple cycles. Because it's one thing to kind of read the chart,
and it's another thing to actually living through it on a day-to-day basis, right? And I've done it
so many times that it's like, all right, this is second nature to me. And I can see that can see that even right now a lot of people are doubtful oh my god it's not going to work out
oh my god I think we've already topped I think bitcoin is over and I'm like you know what it
doesn't matter because according to my calculations it is in September or October when bitcoin is going
to top out and that's what I'm going to stick to and I don't care about what happens now if I'm
proven wrong then yeah that's a different story then that means I learned something, this cycle, right? But what's going to happen is next year in
September, Bitcoin is going to mark the bottom or October, whenever that top is going to be this
year. That's going to be the bottom next year on crypto, on Bitcoin. And most people will expect
the whole year to be red, and that's not going to be the case. So we are looking at a much shorter
barrier than what we had before.
It doesn't mean we're not seeing the same number of months though, because remember last time,
November was the top of in 2021 for Bitcoin. November 2022 was the bottom on Bitcoin. I called
it very publicly in my community everywhere else that, hey, this is it. We're done. This is it.
This is the bottom on Bitcoin. And so, you you know that's how it works and so people are
not going to be expecting that they're going to be expecting november december to be the bottom
but it's going to be earlier than that right so it's going to be a relatively shorter year not
overall with you know with all the months it's going to still be one year of red market but
2026 is going to end a lot sooner and it's not going to be as bad as what we've seen before
and i'm not talking about altcoins i think altcoins are going to end a lot sooner. And it's not going to be as bad as what we've seen before.
And I'm not talking about altcoins.
I think altcoins are going to see a pretty awful move during the last bull market or bear market.
Bitcoin is not going to crash as much as it did last time.
Because historically speaking, according to data, Bitcoin retracements are getting smaller and smaller. It's not as big.
And so I still I expect 65 to 70 percent um crash still and so that's what
i'm i'm wanting to see on bitcoin but it's not going to be as bad as what we've seen in the past
hopefully that answers the question it does i see that we've got brett up here do you want to add
anything to the discussion hey gmgm gang yeah I popped in late. It's been a crazy morning getting things all together here with MLB season started yesterday. So no, just happy to be here and contribute. I missed kind of the first part of the conversation. So I'm not going to chime in without having all the details.
Well, what about what are you watching?
out what are you watching oh man as far as crypto is concerned majors meme coins is there like i
mean i'm uh definitely keeping an eye on bitcoin always like forever you know always watching
bitcoin um watching ethereum very closely going into the the hard fork that's going to be coming
up here i think uh in may i think I think it was originally supposed to be March.
I think they pushed it to May.
Hard fork on Ethereum is going to be doing some interesting things with how they're going to be restructuring validators and ultimately how that's going to affect the token price.
And then Solana is the casino, right?
So, like, I mean, you know, I think that there's a lot of degen value there.
You know, I don't think it's going to get all this institutional adoption that everybody's hoping for, you know, and ETFs and all these things, you know.
But I feel like it's definitely going to be, you know, essentially the equivalent to, you know, the Robux or V-Bucks on Fortnite.
You know, I think it's going to there's going to be a serious demand for Solana because it'll be a tool that you use to gamble with or go play game. I mean, like go buy Chuck E. Cheese
tokens kind of mentality, you know? And so it's going to be an interesting thing to see play out
going into the spring and into summer. You know, historically it's, you know, summer is kind of a
wash, I feel like, you know, and then we get pumps in the fall. So I don't know. I don't know. Definitely, definitely keeping, you know, a close eye on the majors and definitely have kind of written off all of these, all of the meme coins, you know, outside of, you know, obviously some of the AI coins that are actually providing value.
You know, I think BankerBot's doing a phenomenal job, you know, and their devs are just crushing
it right now.
You know, Softshell, Billy is crushing it.
You know, I mean, any of these AI agents that are actually providing value, utility
or resources, I think have a really, really strong play and a really strong need in this industry, you know, outside of the, you know, I guess like in opposition to the AI tokens that are literally just chat bots with an inflated market value.
I was discussing this earlier this week, but especially in terms of meme coins and because meme coins are so heavily based on Solana, it is think that this is going to be maybe a shorter term headwind for it or if this is like a longer term kind of rethink about how how crypto views Solana in general.
that it's gotten a, well, I mean, like,
meme coins kind of brought about a bad name
or a bad look on Solana.
You know, I mean, like, the only people
that were super happy about the token pumping
are people that are deep in the ecosystem of Solana, right?
You know, I mean, there hasn't been
any major institutional adoption on Solana.
It's still kind of like, you know,
I guess the politically correct term would be like it's the kind of like uh you know i i guess the what the the politically correct term
would be like it's it's the red-headed stepchild right of all of crypto you know it's it definitely
is important it has significance in crypto um but i again i think it's more so kind of like the
you know like you can't go to chuck e. Cheese and use quarters, right? You have to
exchange your fiat for tokens. And then those tokens allow you to play all the games and
potentially win tickets that you can then redeem for prizes that if you want to, you could go sell
for fiat, you know, and it is this kind of full circle type thing. And I think that Solana is really good
at that kind of, you know, holding onto that ecosystem mentality, you know, where it's like,
yeah, come buy the Solana so that then you can come buy the meme coins that then can pump that
you can then off ramp and profit, you know. But outside of that, I really don't think that there's any real need or use for Solana.
You know, and I mean, we've talked a bunch of times in the past about just like the technical inefficiencies of that entire network.
You know, I'm surprised that it is even still, you know, held together with all of its toothpicks and bubble gum and duct tape that's, you know, really holding that network together. Widening this conversation so that we can bring back everyone, because I know
that I'm very good at just honing in on somebody and making them my victim for a couple minutes.
But I am curious to get everyone's thoughts on this upcoming or not this upcoming this current quarter
especially because we've seen such a rough start to the year
you want to start us off tropic
whoops there we go yeah sure i'll say um well I'll preface this by saying that I'm like eternally optimistic
and I just want to put that out there. So with that said, I think honestly, we're okay. We're
in a good space. I think generally speaking with what's going to go on with the market as a whole,
definitely more people are coming on. And when you're on spaces that are not entirely focused
on North America and Europe, you'll see that so many people are coming on.
Some really interesting things are happening within the space.
And things like even people say like things like, oh, NFTs are dead.
But there's this project that's in Asia at 2 a.m. Eastern time.
They had this mint. 48 seconds, 10,000 of them sold out.
Of course, they're buying crypto to get into that.
Then over the next week, I forget the name of seed, something, another right but it's it's start off on telegram and it's going over to
sui and over the week like they they sold something like uh like a half a million different nfts like
in different mints and they're all happening at like 2 a.m eastern time so with that said the
world is coming in and i think it's it those that are looking at charts and trying to have history
repeat itself it's kind of difficult to try to gauge that and time that.
And just as a little pulse, I'm in Jamaica.
So I'm outside the U.S. and I travel around.
So I get to hop into some of these spaces over in Africa and those places.
It's a completely different language.
And I know the majority of capital is in the U.S.
However, I just think that it's so different this time around that I don't
think history is going to 100% repeat itself and the charts are going to play out exactly how
people think it is. So yeah, eternal optimist. And I think we're in a good place.
If you guys don't raise your hands, I'm going to have to pick on you.
I'm not so optimistic. I wish I was.
Why? Why aren't you optimistic?
There's so much uncertainty still.
People don't know what's going to happen with the two existing wars that are basically going on in the world that the U.S. is involved in.
I mean, there's other stuff as well. I think a lot of people are just generally
uncertain about how things are going to go in the U.S. right now from a political standpoint.
And I think that absolutely impacts people's risk tolerance on a quarterly basis. And I mean,
this is just kind of hearsay, but conversations I have with people who are Americans living in America are kind of wary of the stock
market and and being involved in the stock market right now and they're honestly even wary of like
the U.S. dollar which maybe that's maybe that's jumping the gun maybe that's jumping the gun but
the fact that people are even saying that is a little bit concerning to me
fair point or even saying that is a little bit concerning to me.
Fair point.
Okay, Donovan, I'm picking on you now.
I don't have general thoughts over a quarter or a year.
One of the things, I guess, I've been thinking a lot more,
and back to the point before that we were talking about regarding meme coins, I don't think there's any question that if meme coins were to, the activity around meme coins were to die off, Solana would definitely be in a much less secure position. What I've been thinking a lot more about is why would meme coins die off?
Like if they were like the way the meme coins were always sold in crypto was that they're
kind of like casinos, right?
And so my question is, do we see casino activity drop off in like different seasons you know like when central
bank interest rates go down um does that tell gamblers say hey you know credit is cheap go
gamble and interest rates go up um oh no we're gonna stop gambling because these are risk on assets.
Like, does that, our meme coin activity, is it subject to these types of fluctuations?
That's just something that's been on my mind.
I'm curious if like anyone has thoughts.
What's fascinating is that meme coins and gambling more broadly, casino blockchain games have still been getting attention and getting money
despite the broader economic vibe right now.
I think it's fascinating.
I don't know if there's some correlation
with people losing hope
and people just wanting to gamble,
but that's something that I would need to dig into more but blockchain games are also a lot less expensive than in 2021
right like i remember like to play axie infinity you would have to spend something like three or
four hundred dollars and that that high financial entry barrier is no longer the case for most of the blockchain games today, is it not?
Yeah, in the gaming side of things, some games are still being very, their prices are not realistic.
Like Azuki, their TCG, they're trying to charge $100 a box and like, good for them.
But I will not be spending
that kind of money. So, you know, it really depends on the game. I think some games are
really hyping up the idea that they still want 2021 era pricing for the NFTs. And it is interesting
to see people hyping up as well, like off the grid packs being sold and and things the nfts being sold for
huge amounts of money like as though that's some kind of sign of success and i'm not so sure anymore
like yes in 2021 everyone was hyping up like oh this board ape sold for 400k or whatever ridiculous
amount of money but i don't think that means that like the space is doing well i don't think that
necessarily means that like just because of an nft and off the grid sold for four thousand dollars or whatever i don't think
that means that things are going well i just think it means people are throwing money around
and like that's that's kind of a neutral thing to me it doesn't really mean that
something is succeeding or not succeeding. Yeah, Tropic. Yeah, I will definitely agree with that,
especially when you use the Bored Ape example, because when you give away things for free to a
whole bunch of high profile individuals that are then going on late night shows and tweeting about
this stuff, it creates an artificial market, not to mention that people were so optimistic about
the technology, not truly understanding what an NFT was.
And it reminds me of, you know, like the dot-com era and everything when everyone just thought if you threw dot-com on the end of your company, then it was worth a billion dollars, right?
Well, obviously not.
And I think a lot of things happened, not to mention everyone was at home.
They were bored.
Crypto was pumping.
Free capital was being thrown out with all these stimulus packages and so forth so
literally people had nothing better to do or anywhere to put their capital into then into
things like that and it became like this huge like ultimate flex i mean sure it's nice to have
a lamborghini but if you're stuck at home and you can't go anywhere well pour some money into a board
ape and that was like kind of the cool thing to do and um you know i'm really optimistic again about like the cool things that they're doing in the space however to see that exuberance
and just total irrational spending that we saw then i don't think that's going to happen again
unless there's like another global pandemic and stimulus packages and all sorts of craziness which
all those things to line up together it i just don't see that happening and it was a bubble yeah and like a bubble and speculation doesn't equal success in my opinion
and so i think you're right that like an artificial market was created but if we're if
we're talking about like mass adoption which is a word that a lot of people like to throw around in
crypto pretty pretty willy-nilly that's that's another thing to think about it's like are we
really gonna have millions and millions and millions of people spending 100k on like a in crypto pretty willy-nilly. That's another thing to think about. Are we really going to have
millions and millions and millions of people spending $100K on a board ape or $100K on a
gunskin? No. It's obviously a very tiered economy that mimics the real world where you have a very,
very small number of people that can actually be whales in a game. And then you have all these
minnows who maybe just play the
game, but don't really spend that much or, or the players that kind of leech off the ecosystem.
But anyway, I could, I could go really down a rabbit hole with all this stuff.
100% before I see Brad's hands up, but I'll just add on to that point too. Also like, of course,
mass adoption also brings down prices. So there's never been a case that I could possibly think of
where mass adoption happens and things come onto the market and everyone's adopting it, that the price goes
down unless the supply is either locked or shrinking. And that's not the case because
there's so many different options. There's so many chains, so many projects and businesses
and places to put the capital. Therefore, when mass adoption comes in, more people are going to
use it. Yes, there's going to be more tokens, more NFTs and all these different things. And it's just so spread out that
it's not going to impact the one chain. Like, say, at the time when Ethereum launched, it was the
only smart contract chain. So I can go on and on and on and on. But at the end of the day, yeah,
mass adoption is happening in ways that we just didn't really calculate. And again, we just were
exuberant and thought it was going to just put everything to the moon
and wag me and all that stuff.
But yeah, again, bullish on the space,
but at the same time, definitions have to change.
Brod, I know you've been trying to talk for a minute.
No, yeah, no, great, great points.
But I just wanted to, you know,
just like it's worth pointing out that historically,
I mean, forever across all industries in downtimes and in times of, you know, economic, I guess,
despair, the two industries that always thrive the most are liquor and entertainment.
And I feel like Solana is kind of like, kind of is both, you know?
Yeah, and to add my two cents,
listening to everyone,
I think that one of the things to keep in mind
is that meme coins had a basis
because people could go there
and access it and have fun with it.
What ended up kind of turning the tide,
and you could argue rightfully so, is the fact that we saw some people take advantage of that.
And, you know, the tokenomics of things were not necessarily fair for the retail class that were
coming in to try to have fun. So there was still like back in October, or maybe it was November,
I was at a college conference, a blockchain week for them.
And one of the things was about meme investing.
And the guy was saying, I can make thousands by just watching a meme stock for two seconds, knowing that I need to get out within the next five minutes.
five minutes. And so I think that's what was attractive. And what ended up happening is that
And so I think that's what was attractive.
when you have people, and let's just be blatant here, when you have people like the president of
the United States come in and people feel rugged afterwards, it's going to change the tide on
how people feel about things. And that is a huge driver for crypto.
I would love to talk about just something something that tropic mentioned about the like abundance
of chains like i don't know it's just maybe it's just me but since like coming back in 2025 to
this space it just feels like everyone wants to launch a chain and that's the new sexy thing to do
and i feel like no one is set up for long-term success. Everyone is launching a chain,
but very few of these chains actually understand
what they're doing to the broader crypto market
and what they're doing to themselves long-term.
I think it could be an interesting conversation.
Let's go, Kate.
You want to kick it off?
Well, I don't know.
I mean, basically,
I was just thinking about the whole like Arbitrum Dow news about how they made this like super expensive gaming catalyst program that was like, initially worth 200 million. And, and now there's sort of concerns about all that money going toward one thing. And other concerns, I just, I think it's an interesting conversation of like, that is the amount of money that people in crypto think that they have to spend just to get games onto their ecosystems.
And it just creates this like insane amount of competition where everyone's just doling out like tens of millions of dollars to pay these games to like build on their ecosystem.
And then, you know, a bunch of the games end up leaving or failing.
And there's just it's just this chain competition.
I just don't really know that it's helping anyone i mean i think it's one of the reasons we're seeing so
many chains is because last year all the vcs were dumping into infra place you know it was like
that's where a majority of the vc funding was going to info. And that's why we're seeing all of these,
like, here's a hundredth L2 that does the exact same thing as the other 99, you know, with no
real dedicated use other than just, you know, well, shit, we got to build something because
the VCs gave us all this money, you know, um, well, this year they're focusing, you know,
a lot of the VC funds and investors are looking at, you know, applications and dApps for these now million plus blockchains, you know, and, you know, surprise, surprise, people are still just building on base and Solana and Ethereum, you know, so it's kind of like, well, you know, we'll see what happens. I think that like, yeah, as of next year, I agree 100%. As of next year, I think we're going to see a lot of these chains kind of go away and disappear. You know, we'll see which ones try to pivot to become, oh, you know, we were building this chain when we realized that now we really need more data availability providers or we really need more, you know, wallet security tools or, you know, because they were founded and invested in as an infra team and
an infra company. And so they kind of have to keep building some sort of infra. But I think we're
also going to see now again, this year with applications and dApps being the primary kind
of driver for funding, you know, we're going to see a bunch of, you know, earlier, I guess,
I guess, yeah, earlier this year, later last year, everyone was talking about, oh, look, Web3 Gaming is coming back.
And it's like, oh, boy.
All right.
Well, we'll see.
We'll see how that goes.
You know, all of a sudden Napster is talking in the mix again because they just got acquired and they want to do a music metaverse.
And it's like, Jesus Christ, guys, like that's like we are so far from that ever being a reality, you know.
far from that ever being a reality, you know, but again, you can start seeing now the sentiment
change towards finding applications and use cases for like, I mean, you know, the ones that we've
all heard 1000 times since 2021, you know, or, you know, it's like, Oh, and royalties on chain
and realty on chain and all these things, you know, and so, you know, in web three, we go around
and around and around again, you know, until ultimately, you know, in Web3, we go around and around and around again, you know, until ultimately every cycle we'll have one or two hits, you know, and I think that this year,
we'll see a couple of breakout applications. But ultimately, I think those applications will be
probably built on base, or, you know, if they are a casino type application, they'll be built on Solana.
You know, I wish all the teams that are building, you know, these chains, like best of luck.
You know, hopefully they can find a niche somewhere that they can be super, super, you know, applicable to.
But at the end of the day, I mean, speaking, you know, as a developer, like I'm going to build on
whatever chain is the easiest to build on, you know, I don't like why bother, you know, with all
these extra steps, you know, I mean, like, unfortunately, kind of look at abstract, you
know what I mean? And it's like, well, yeah, cool idea, cool concept by having native account
abstraction at the protocol level, right? Integrating with all the existing platforms, existing wallets, existing dApps,
and kind of doing these things, it's not difficult, but it's a whole extra step.
You know, it's like, well, why?
You know, why bother when I can just, like, use a registry contract?
I can use a 4337 on ETH, on BASE, on Optimism, on Arbitrum, on Arum on AVAX type C chain on all these other platforms
that already exist um that are essentially plug and play you know and so I think that we'll see
uh hopefully we'll see some cool apps come out this year but I think that the narrative is slowly
dying of uh we need more chains I agree to that And I also think that there's a twofold issue there.
It's like one question I have is how many of these chains just kind of go away versus how many
will try to find another, how much will we see in M&A activity, I guess? And then the second thing was actually part of a panel
that I watched at DAS last week,
which was VCs talking about how there really is not a need
at this point in crypto to have these multi-hundred million dollar rounds.
I mean, you're over-evaluating that company.
And it's,
when you stick a company at that kind of valuation, you're setting them up for failure in a way, because how are they going to exceed that? You know, especially in a very crowded space.
Yeah, I think liquidity is also a part of the conversation like some people are concerned that
if there's no liquidity on a tiny chain that has a tiny niche that that is just not going to work
i also think it's interesting um i feel like brad said a lot of a lot of good made a lot of good
points and something that i noticed the beginning of this year was just that a lot of these,
these game studios slash infra providers have fully pivoted to the infra side because they're
like, I guess it's like, okay, well, if we can't find users, if we can't sell to users,
then we'll just sell to other people in crypto, which is other builders. And I think that's a lot
of what we're seeing is just like, there's just a pivot to infra, pivot to infra, because people are like not seeing the users that maybe they had hoped.
I mean, there's just, it's been pretty crazy.
I'll be really curious to see how many of these gaming chains and other chains, like I think like over 60 gaming chains launched last year. So it'll be really interesting to see which ones go to the top. And yeah, definitely watching that space. And
and hopefully, we don't have to like have 10 wallets to, you know, have a wallet for every
chain. That shit drives me nuts. All right, we have a couple minutes here. So I want to just go around and get everyone's kind
of closing thoughts, what you're looking at, etc, etc. Let's start. Kate, let's start with you.
Oh, um, yeah, thanks for having me on the space. I yapped a lot. So I will make it short.
Yeah, really, really just watching this space right right now and it might sound like i'm very
bearish on gaming and web3 but i swear i'm not it's just a matter of like looking into things
and following things and and making some point hopefully pointing out some stuff that that is
interesting to people donovan i think i i'm a little bit more optimistic, I think.
I think as much as anyone else, I do feel that there are way too many chains.
And it is a pain in the ass from a user experience standpoint.
But market competition works in extremely unpredictable ways like you know if i'm old enough to remember that
i'm old enough to remember that i was once on myspace and back in the day nobody believed that
myspace would be toppled right nobody knew that friends there would be next facebook would be next
um and then instagram came and then um what off the Instagram? I can't even remember
but you know like at every single point in time
in like social media
in the industry, everyone
believed that the existing
platform was going to be a
natural monopoly
and every single time
market competition has proven us
wrong that hey monopolies don't stay around unless they are protected government monopolies.
So I think using that frame of thought and thinking about like a world of like a thousand chains and we need so many, I'm optimistic that.
Well, first of all, I think the valuations are compressing.
Less and less L2s are going to come and try and launch and do like a quick token cash grab.
But at the same time, the existing hundreds of chains, I think they all do bring technological niches to crypto and to the blockchain space that
is just impossible for us to anticipate how they would contribute to what we might find
productive or unproductive down the road.
Who knows, like now, the new chains like MegaEath and uh monet right the the so-called all layer ones
that are fastest who knows that you know these chains that are seemingly pointless and useless
now they're going to be the foundation for some kind of game or some kind of application that
would not be able to exist on solana or layer or the ethereum 2. It's just impossible to predict these things.
And I'm optimistic that market competition will work itself out.
And there's going to be a lot of waste for sure.
But yeah, I'm optimistic.
Fred?
Yeah, I think Donovan pretty much nailed it, you know, is the fact that, like, none of us, I mean, essentially, we all have magic eight ball knowledge out here.
You know what I mean?
It's kind of one of those things where, you know, everything I can assume almost every single person in this room is like, man, I wish I had bought tons of Bitcoin in 2011.
You know, and ultimately we'll see kind of what happens with the future of these different chains.
You know, there's not to say, I mean, I will say with fairly strong confidence that there's not going to be another Bitcoin.
Right. But it doesn't mean that there can't be other chains that provide value that ultimately will have staying power and have lasting power,
you know, especially with all of this AI stuff now that's starting to really explode, you know,
all of us in AI have been building AI for a while now, you know, and it was kind of like back when it was hard in 2021, 22, 23, it was like, it's just kind of very much duct tape bubblegum type things. And now we have all
of these tools and we have all of these options and all of these different things that agents can
do together and can communicate and can transact with each other. And I think that there's going to
be outside of the narrative, right? Because a lot of Web3 is just selling the narrative.
Right. Because a lot of Web3 is just selling the narrative outside of the narrative.
There is a need for blockchain applications specifically tuned for AI integrations.
You know, we need to have data sovereignty. We need to have identity protection.
We need to have, you know, secure, you know, payment rails between agentic systems, not just between agent to agent, but between entire
agent systems.
And we're going to start to see these new economies start to get born.
We're already kind of seeing some of it again.
I'll shout out BankerBot for just crushing it and the devs over there.
I think that we're going to see more things like that.
And I think we will have to have a dedicated network for those types of applications just
for sovereignty and security reasons.
All right, Tropic, close this out.
I just made it out of the no phone zone.
Yeah, no, I would say it was great conversation.
It was great to be a part of it.
And the one thing I will say with the reason why more change will continue to pop up is number one, with open source technology, it's just easy to replicate. And anyone with a little bit of dev skills can actually spin up a train. It might just mean that the only node or the only validator is their own computer, but they can do it. So it's easy to do. And it's an easy business model in the sense that they only sell one thing, which is block space. And that's very attractive to someone with a lot of money to invest into because they know that the revenue
stream is just straightforward. Selling block space, and as long as you can prove that you can
sell that block space or at least convince them. So that's why they're going to keep spinning up.
And I think more and more are going to pop up, both private and public. But overall,
great conversation. It was great. Love being here.
All right. Thank you guys. Really appreciate everyone joining and thank you,
especially to our speakers for coming up and chatting with us and Wolf.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, Catherine. It was a pleasure. I'm glad I got to tune into this one. It's a, it's fresh compared to some of the other calls. So it's a pleasure.
All right.
We'll see you next time, guys.
Bye.
See you next time.
Emp, is that you behind the Wolf account?
No, this is Kate.
Oh, yes.
Emp, I know you've been waiting to host a space with me.
I know you have.
See, I want to know what you're doing.
I want to know where's Kate. Well, you know. I'm actually going to leave what you're doing. I want to know where Kate is.
Well, you know.
I'm actually going to leave.
No, no.
Back up here.
Back up here.
You know.
I can't leave.
We've got a great panel coming on.
I've been.
I'm basically, you know, taking over Kate's job.
So, guys, anybody who's listening, I will be the new Wolf Crypto host.
Brad, I know you prefer me over Cade.
Don't lie.
Zat Tropic, you guys too.
I mean, it's very obvious.
I'm excited for Noah too because Noah likes me more than Cade.
So this is going to be the best CryptoPulse space of all time.
Okay, let me change the title here, I guess.
I just muted when I was trying to unmute.
How about that?
That's the type of Friday we're having over here.
That's amazing.
We're going to kick this face off with a bang.
How about that?
Is that MetaZet I see?
I need to hear a MetaZet intro before we go any further in this space.
Zed, I just sent you an invite.
I think you popped off.
But yes, definitely.
Let's get an intro going.
We're going to have the most hype space of all time.
It's because it's me and I'm posting.
So, Zed, how's it going, man?
Awesome over here.
GM, GA, GN, everybody. How y'all doing? doing I'm in the car so hopefully the audio is still good but I excited come in stronger give you the strong entry all right all right what's good
everybody TMGAG and how y'all doing out there it's your boys at aka meta Zet because if you
met me you met is it and you know where you are.
This is a CryptoPulse, baby, with Wolf, the one and only place to be.
Thanks for pulling up, and obviously, I'm hyped to be here.
Let's go.
That's it right there.
That's what we needed.
Now we can really kick off the conversation here, Sam.
I told you, we needed to pull in Zet to just get us fired up.
I'm ready to go now.
Oh, I'm ready.
I've never been more ready.
Well, you know, I think the easiest topic to start with is the whole GameStop thing.
So, Epp, I'll throw it to you, and then we can kind of keep circling it around the panel.
But I think that's the obvious start here.
Yeah, what an interesting deal.
I mean, absolutely diluting your
shareholders to uh get into crypto i mean i see the argument so i'll start with the positive side
of things i see the argument at least they're trying to do something right at least they're
trying to do something that's about as far as the positivity goes there now you're saying you've
waited this long you've sat on this cash forever, and now you're raising more, but you're second to market. I mean, do you really want to buy GameStop when you can buy
MSTR that's already way ahead of the curve here? That's the issue I have with this. Honestly,
more dilution, more offerings to try to do what somebody else is already doing. You're second to
market. You're going to be the second option. I just don't get it.
But at the same time, at least they're trying something,
I guess, for their shareholders.
So that's a positive.
If I'm trying to be positive on this Friday
in a sea of red across the market,
that's about the only thing positive I can say.
Honestly, I would not touch GameStop with your money, Sam.
I wouldn't even put your money into GameStop.
That's how far away from that.
I mean, like the Grinch, like 10-foot pole,
keep that thing away from me.
More dilution.
I'm not even a big fan of MSTR, honestly.
I'd rather just own the underlying at this point.
There's so many options out there.
Now, if you're looking for a trading vehicle,
MSTR is a decent trading vehicle.
GameStop, not really.
You have so much to deal with over there.
That's my thoughts. I'm interested to see what everyone else says if uh Kate or Brett or anybody
else wants to jump in on that I saw a bunch of people talking about shorting I saw everyone
talking about shorting as soon as I came out I was like we're gonna. So yeah, I saw some big names talking about it,
making some basic decisions and shorts right when that happened.
I didn't know what to expect, actually.
Maybe I haven't followed those kind of stories enough.
I guess to me it wasn't fully clear,
but I struggle, I guess, to look at it from the traditional point of view,
if they're not coming from the door from Bitcoin.
Or especially if you don't know much about Bitcoin,
I can definitely see why this would be
a bearish move for those kind of people
because this is a terrible idea.
We had a guy on our Bitcoin space
yesterday, his name is George,
and he wasn't
specifically pro or
against Bitcoin,
but he just basically brought it
an entirely different perspective than I'm used to
for how TradFi, old TradFi looks at things,
something like Bitcoin.
And it was just totally different
from the conversation that had in the last couple of years.
And it was a pretty fascinating conversation
and it kind of opened up the conversation as well
as like what other companies are gonna start to make this move? we going to see a cascading effect of people doing this and
then them getting shorted and then wrecked and then nobody doing it and now it's been a net
negative so i'm not sure what to think about it what about uh you bread yeah yeah man it's uh i don't know man i feel like we're starting to slowly wind down here with some of these alts What about you, Brad? Yeah, man.
I don't know, man. I feel like we're starting to slowly wind down here with some of these alts.
On the last phase, we were just kind of talking about the fact that, yeah, there's been a lot of infra plays because of the investments that went to infra last year.
And now all these teams are like, well, shit, we've got this chain.
Now what do we do?
Oh, there's liquidity in meme coins.
We'll just launch some of those.
You know, and it's like, all right, well, I mean, that's a decent like band-aid fix, I guess, you know,
and it beats just spinning up fake volume by issuing a ton of wallets and being like, look, we have 100,000 DAU, you know.
But I think that the kind of the vibes on meme coins are definitely like the
sentiment is much lower than it was six months ago you know and i think that as we go forward
with more regulations and things like that that are starting to happen right now we're in that
middle ground you know where it's kind of like well nobody told us we couldn't right and it's
just like well yeah but it isn't necessarily necessarily 100 percent green light that you should be, you know.
And I think that once major players and the primary
investors and primary holders of the majors you know bitcoin solana ethereum um they're not
they're not interested you know what i mean like they saw it as like a quick like oh hey you know
like let me enter this raffle you know which i mean like that's fun you know like hey shit you
know grab a dollar raffle ticket and maybe you'll win you know this brand new car or whatever and it's like hey you could
totally possible but realistically probably not you know and you're better off like taking that
dollar and probably doing something smarter with it and i think that's where the market is heading
now and uh we'll kind of see now you know not to. I don't think meme coins are completely dead.
And alts are completely dead. There will still be a few that I think will take off. But
in general, we're going to see liquidity start moving more so to the majors. And then really,
you know, applications that are on the major networks that allow you to use those funds.
major networks that allow you to use those funds.
You know, I think that we're seeing a lot of, you know, more betting type things,
more prediction markets coming into the play here now, you know, to where it's like,
hey, I can hedge some of this ETH that I've been holding forever since it's down
and maybe turn a profit by betting on this prediction market.
turn to profit by betting on this prediction market you know um and it's more of a real
kind of point-to-point direct way of monetizing your holdings versus the meme coins which i feel
like you know a lot of people see as just straight pure gambling by the way br, a little off subject or topic here. How is your sports betting AI going?
Dude, Billy's crushing it, man.
Billy Betts is absolutely crushing it.
You know, NBA season is starting to slow down now.
You know, it kind of got less.
I guess Billy's predictions were less accurate after All-Star break,
which isn't kind of, we were all expecting that.
You know, internally the team was kind of like,
we'll see what happens after All-Star break.
You know, but MLB season started yesterday.
And so we've got, you know, Billy is making player props bets on baseball currently
and absolutely crushing it.
March Madness is still going on and he's just obliterating all of your
favorite sport betting KOLs from YouTube and these, you know,
online Instagram sport betting personalities and pick sellers, you know,
Billy's just wiping the floor with them, you know? And so it's,
it's really exciting, man. It's fun.
It's fun to be building something that not only is kind of like new and novel in the space, but also, you know, it's fun.
You know, it's fun to see like, hey, you know, is this is Billy's call going to be right?
You know, and being able to sweat the bets without having to have your own money on the line is just it's a really, really fun time.
on the line is just a, it's a really, really fun time, you know, and so we're hoping that
by next week we'll have the Moneyline MLB games working a little bit better.
Right now there's still some issues with some data providers and some of the information
that's available.
We were primarily doing all of our NBA Moneylines through Polymarket.
Polymarket doesn't have their Moneyline MLB game set up yet, you know?
And so we're looking at, you know, SX bets.
We're looking at overtime markets.
We're looking at a few different kind of platforms to decide, all right,
well, Billy can make these predictions. Fine. That's, that's no big deal.
But like, where is Billy placing these with his wallet? Um, and so,
you know, a bunch of,
a bunch of internal talks kind of happening right now as
far as like where we're going to end up doing a lot of those bets and then uh just you know next
in the pipeline is going to be uh you know nfl so i'm trying to kind of start thinking about that
now while we're uh building the mlb stuff well i saw tropic put his hand up but before that bread you know godspeed on that
amp is definitely one that would be needing it m spets are so bad that
he's gonna need an ai helping him but uh i'll throw it over i need to remind you what i did
to caleb williams no no no no dude you you were lying you You were putting bad juju on my quarterback.
Throw it to Tropic for our Rose Caleb Williams again.
On that note, one thing I will say that, you know, to feed off of what Brad just said about the whole gambling and tickets thing,
I think that is exactly why you'll still see these meme coins, regardless of how many people get rugged and how horrible it is and how much of a bloodbath it is out there, still be popular, still launch in liquidity and funds still go into it, simply because when you look at an underdog for a sports game or whatever
it might be, right, if you only have like five bucks, right, let's say it's like the most crazy
odds ever, it's not going to buy you a house. But if someone who is absolutely desperate and they're just addicted to gambling anyways,
they use it in different words and whatever, but whatever, they're just gamblers.
And they can say all they want.
They're just looking for that huge, massive payoff.
And because especially on like Solana with all these different on ramps and so forth,
someone can just, you know, they just got paid on a Friday.
They have a hundred dollars. OK, maybe they'll spend fifty dollars at the bar and then they'll
put the other 50 in a whole bunch of different mean coins and try to hit one. It's no different
than like, you know, trying to get a scratch off lottery ticket or something of that nature.
And if you look at the Powerball lottery, right, billions of dollars flows into that,
knowing very well that you're more likely to be struck by lightning two three times in your lifetime than hitting the powerball but billions of dollars
still flows into it so with that said i think you know rational smart investors are going to look at
the majors and bitcoin and all the other infrastructure plays and all these other things
but people with just a couple bucks and they're just looking for a dream, I think they're just going to still throw it up.
They're known very well, just like they they very well know that they're not going to hit the Powerball.
But I know people that will go buy 100 Powerball tickets.
I'm like, you don't think if you just saved all of those money up over the last, I don't know, 10, 15 years you've been buying that, you might be in a little bit better place.
But, hey, people keep doing it.
I see we got Moby up here Noah what's going on man
sorry about the technical difficulties
I was having earlier
what are you guys getting into
dude no worries
at all I think we're just
talking about GameStop a little bit
and kind of what everyone's
thoughts were then we were talking a little bit of some AI with Fred.
But what's your thoughts on the whole GameStop situation?
GameStop allocating towards Bitcoin?
I think it's bullish.
I think the more we see companies buying Bitcoin,
the more bullish it is.
Same with nation states, institutions, the big money.
Why is that?
Do people disagree?
Is that a...
No, no, I actually think...
Em said he wouldn't even invest my money into GameStop.
Oh, I wouldn't buy GameStop.
I don't know if I want to buy GameStop as a pseudo long on Bitcoin, the way that people are doing with MicroStrategy.
Oh, maybe. I don't know.
It worked out for people buying MicroStrategy.
I think my buddy of mine had like $300K in his 401k.
Not a lot of money, but he's not a big 401K guy.
But he just converted all of it to MicroStrategy sometime in late 2023.
And his 401K is now over a million.
So I don't know.
I mean, I think if you tried to copy that, I don't know.
I don't know.
Me personally, I'm not doing it.
But I think it's cool to see more reputable, I guess,
known companies publicly allocating towards Bitcoin.
What's your sentiment on the market as a whole?
Where do you think we're heading?
Are you bullish on some
of the other alts or are you um like where have you been uh allocating your money or have you
been adjusting your strategy over the last few months i haven't um it's been a couple of months
where i just i'm just in stables but that that's this money that I, as far as like income that I earn,
um, I'm just keeping it in dollars, but I also haven't sold any crypto. I, like most of my
portfolio is Bitcoin and ETH and that hasn't been sold in many, many years. So, or it hasn't been
touched in many, many years. So, um, I'm not really concerned with that. And yeah, as far as altcoins go,
I don't like I'm not really buying altcoins. If we see a clear reversal, then and the way that I
approach it is there'll be plenty of opportunities. There'll be plenty of opportunities to buy
low caps and alts and pre-sales and pumped off fund launches.
I think that I'm waiting for more liquidity
to be thrown around in the market.
I don't really feel the need to position myself
in alts for a year.
And I hope they go up next year
because it didn't quite work out
for the people that were approaching it this way
back in 2024.
No, I think you're right on there, Noah.
I'll throw it over to LadyTrader.
I think she's the only one who has an OR, and we can throw it to Zed as well.
What's going on, LadyTrader?
Hey, thank you so much for having me up here.
So a couple of things that I wanted to actually bring up. So first was, you know, what was discussed earlier about meme coins and Brad had some pretty awesome takes on that one.
You know, about the regulatory clarification, which we don't or regulatory clarity, which we don't currently have.
But what actually I would like to mention here is that there is a little bit of a clarity, right?
Like they've already it's already been said that meme coins are not securities.
And so technically, how are you going to regulate that?
Like you're, you're pretty much saying it's not a security.
So that kind of shows, okay, it's community focused, you know, community created.
So people should be able to create meme coins.
Just, you know, that's the whole spirit of
meme coins trump team created multiple meme coins i don't think there's going to be like a
clarity over whether you should create meme coins or not now of course there's going to be some
clarity of course around scamming and drugging people and all of that i would love to see that
but also osprey uh which you know which you guys actually wolf team brought up uh and uh Osprey, which you guys actually, Wolf Team brought up, and Osprey team has filed for Bonk ETFs.
So they are actually the ones who did the first meme coin ETF, which I had been predicting for a very long time.
And people actually made fun of me when I said that in 2021, 2022, that there's going to be a meme coin ETF.
And people were like, oh, no, no, no, no.
That's not.
I made fun of you, Trader.
As early as last year, I made fun of you for that and so it's like no what i say usually comes through and i mean it i'm not just gonna
whip out some of these you know crazy predictions just based because based on my emotions because
i think it's gonna happen or you know i had a dream that is gonna happen it's just because i've
been in the crypto markets and traditional financial sector so much.
It's just that it's a natural progression.
All of the institutions are going to want their money to go into all of the different assets, including meme coins, because it's part of the game.
And they're not going to buy on Uniswap.
They're going to need some sort of a regulated asset.
So this is something I saw coming from years ago.
And there's going to be so many more ETFs. I think even during the next bull market, there's going to be a lot of ETFs,
different sectors, all of that. But the point is, we are going to see Osprey, actually,
Osprey leaders who are on Wolf team, I did ask them, I said, a lot of people, when I first said
there's going to be a meme coin ETF, they said, oh, no, no, no, it cannot happen. Because how is
SEC going to allow that? That's like a regulatory hold. It's this, it's that.
And Osprey team actually clarified and they said, rah, it's actually a lot faster to get an approval
for a meme coin ETF than anything else. Just because meme coins are not, they cannot be
categorized as a, you know, as a security. And so I was like, oh, wow, that's like, I didn't think of
that from, you know, from that perspective. Of course, I knew it was coming, but I was like oh wow that's like I didn't think of that from you know from that perspective of course I knew it was coming but that was like a pretty awesome point so I'll I'll let um Kate
chime in because I have another comment on something else that we were discussing yeah so
I guess I'm down with you now like I guess you can't get help it's just gonna happen there's a
space that I think Luke goes on for Pudgy Penguins and they were like talking about about, you know, if they're going to have one, we're going to have one.
And I was sitting here. I was like, is that is that good thing?
Is this is this the move? Maybe it will happen.
But I'm curious if you think it should happen.
Yeah, I think it should happen.
We should have, you know, some of the meme coin ETFs because it gives institutional institutional investors having the ability to invest in some of the meme coin ETFs because it gives institutional investors having the ability
to invest in some of those meme coins.
Now, I'm not going to say just put all of the meme coins in it, but there has to be
like, I would like to even see multiple different ETFs.
Of course, we saw the Bonk ETF, but there should be some more that actually track almost
like an index of multiple meme coins.
I would love to see that. Maybe another you know, some small, maybe another one
that tracks the small cap meme coins,
maybe one that tracks the mid cap meme coins,
and maybe one that tracks the large cap meme coins.
So something like this, I would absolutely love to see.
I think it should happen,
because it again brings more adaptability.
I mean, let's say somebody has a 401k and they say,
hey, you know what?
I want to put a little bit of my money in Shiba Inu.
Well, you know, Shiba is one of the major meme coins.
We cannot disagree with that, right?
And it's a lot safer than some of the other meme coins.
And so if they want to do that, they cannot allocate it as it is right now.
They're going to have to go through it into a regulated way.
And so having those kind of regulated ETFs available to them, people can then dictate
where they want to allocate their
funds even for the retirement. Like most people are not doing trading and investing on a day-to-day
basis. Most people have 401ks and they don't even look at it and then they hear about somebody making
a ton of money in crypto and like, oh I wish I could do that. I wish I could buy crypto with my
401k. Well you know there are very limited opportunities for you to do that and there's
no opportunity right now to do it for memeoin if you want to trade it that way.
So I just wanted to make it easier for people.
Allow Web2 to kind of onboard into Web3.
That's how you're bringing more people in.
Because they're going to buy it through regulated ways.
And then they're going to be like, hey, you know what, what else?
And then institutions, of course, right?
They get in.
That's really, really good.
But I also wanted to touch on one point.
I know you guys are talking about GME and GME buying Bitcoin, right? They get in. That's really, really good. But I also wanted to touch on one point. I know you guys are talking about GME and GME buying Bitcoin, right? We are all excited about
it because GME is buying Bitcoin. Yes. Crypto folks should be very excited about that. But
here's another take, right? Because I'm coming from another world as well. I come from traditional
financial sector. And so coming from that world, I'm looking at it going, whoa, you're raising
over a billion dollars and you're
gonna buy bitcoin what does that mean for your meme coin stock because a regular investor is
coming to me like you know my friends and not even regular investors people who don't even know much
about uh investments right they know i'm a trader they know i'm an investor they know i invest in
crypto they know i've been you know coming from this hedge fund world so they come to me and like
hey did you see this you know gme they're buying fund world. So they come to me and like, hey, did you see this, you know, GME?
They're buying Bitcoin now.
Should I go buy GME?
And it's just mind blowing.
It's like, oh, my God, like it's a mean stock.
And also you understand the delusion, right?
Of course, I'm not like mean to them.
I'm just smiling and trying to figure out how do I answer that?
Because it's like, you know, in the back end, if you look at it, right, they are actually going to dilute their stock.
They're raising more funds, which means they're going to have to issue more stocks.
And so that cycle continues in MemeCoin.
I'm sorry, the MemeCoin stock sector.
And so, you know, when that's happening, you just have to be cautious around that.
And it's going to hurt the GME stockholders because the value is diluted now for your stock. But it helps us,
the crypto folks, right? Because, hey, they're going to be coming in and they're going to be
buying all this Bitcoin. But also what was mentioned on our previous space here on Wolf
Crypto, where we had Catherine and we were talking about, you know, what happened during the last
bear market. GME sold IMX and they dumped it on the market, right?
And so that is something that they are notorious for.
So they are buying Bitcoin, that's great.
What are they gonna do with it next year?
And when are they exactly,
like when is the fundraising gonna end?
All of those things, I mean, they matter.
Maybe they're gonna do it at the all time highs.
Are they gonna buy it towards the summertime
and then just sell it?
We don't know.
So it's gonna be very interesting.
It's just silly to deliver stocks and bring in investors like this but hey
and i think we're going to see more of that a lot more companies are going to start doing that
so you can go ahead i guess no i was uh sorry was unmuted there, but Zed's been patiently sitting there with his hand up,
so I definitely want to throw it over his direction.
Yeah, no worries.
And then plus everyone, all of my best takes, everyone already hit, of course.
And then you never want to follow Lady Trader.
First off, you never fade the Lady Trader.
Okay, so that's one thing you should just obviously know by now second
You know our own president said there's no crying in the casino
So as far as like meme coins go, I think I think they're fair play
You know, and they're not going anywhere. I what we're witnessing is the modern-day scratcher
and so I think that there's definitely going to be a long stay longevity with,
with this kind of gambling in crypto.
Cause everyone, you know, is looking for that quick hit. Not everyone.
We're in a room full of very, very intelligent traders.
But most folks, you know, are looking for like a quick, a quick, a quick win, quick, big win.
And, you know, myself, I got into crypto, ironically, through the whole GameStop craze, through Robinhood and all of that.
And, you know, speaking of Trump, I'm not a meme coin trader by any means.
But when the Trump coin dropped I threw
$80 into it and made over like 5k and so I'm not a meme coin trader by any means
but I'm always looking for those kind of opportunities and if you see a good
opportunity and you're able to get in quick enough you know and you're you're
you know you're in the right place right time for me I just knew it was an easy
win but most traders like you're saying or right place, right time. For me, I just knew it was an easy win.
But most traders, like you're saying, or most people are not traders and there's varying degrees of comfort that people have with crypto.
Me, I got into Robinhood and then fell down a rabbit hole and went full tilt,
fell in love with NFTs.
And speaking of these ETFs
Pengu not only uh got their Pengu listed with an ETF but now has NFTs listed um the Pudgies so I
think that that's pretty awesome as a as an NFT uh aficionado myself I'm definitely excited to
see that kind of progress as well but um so I think there's always going to be that kind of
interest in gambling. People are always going to want to kind of hit those big wins.
But, you know, people like me will fall further down the rabbit hole and get more educated.
And now that I'm in rooms with such giga brain people like Lady Trader, I'm learning how to
better invest my money. But, you know, going back to GameStop and everything,
I don't know exactly how it works,
but I think what we're seeing is people are recognizing Bitcoin as digital gold.
And so, like Moby, I think, said, as we see more companies adopt this,
you know, it's very bullish for crypto as a whole.
And, you know, and the more that people get their hands on bitcoin
and then less is available this could really uh start to go parabolic in my opinion and so i think
that that's why it's um so bullish you know it is kind of crazy that they're not spending their
they're already funds and you know trying to raise for more um in my opinion, definitely sees how that dilutes. But I think overall,
it's definitely bullish, especially if we see more companies adopt this. I know that
GME is kind of a zombie company, but they might not be around. They might cease to exist if they
didn't do some move like this. And just when we saw the GameStop craze before, that's probably
what has allowed them to kind of not only survive, but thrive.
So that's just kind of my take on it.
But I'll go ahead and pass it back to Wolf or Em.
Give it to Sam.
Sam needs to figure out how to host a little bit better.
This guy, I'll tell you why.
Whoa, whoa, back up here.
I'll tell you why.
I think I've hosted more spaces than you, Em.
I don't know.
Let's calm down.
That's tough.
You know what?
I love those thoughts from Zed there. I don't know that there's a good answer to this whole GameStop thing going on.
But Sam, what other topics did you have to talk about?
I mean, I guess we could definitely talk about Bitcoin.
I did come on to – Kate knows this.
I came on to Space Wednesday, and I hated to do it, but I was just, there's a lot of bearish signals on my chart on Bitcoin right now.
And the market and everything that's going on with the tariffs and all this uncertainty is not helping anything.
But I have to give a quick little update here.
Cade, that bull flag, the weekly charts that I was seeing, the Wyckoff stuff, it's breaking down.
It's like sitting on its last leg of hope right now, to be 100% honest.
Yeah, no, I had a few other topics for you or I guess for the panel.
Number one, all my portfolio is down like criminally.
So, you know, there's been no steak dinners down in Puerto Rico here.
But I did have a few questions.
So we've been in talks with a few Bitcoin mining companies.
So I've been taking a look at their stocks more and more.
And I guess from maybe a traditional finance point of view, why are none of these Bitcoin mining stocks performing?
Even like I get it, Bitcoin's not performing well either, but these Bitcoin mining stocks
are really struggling.
I don't know if you invest in any of them or if Lady Trader does or if Noah does, but
what's your sentiment for Bitcoin miners and do you see them as like a long-term hold?
My personal opinion is I just, I don't touch those things.
Every once in a while, from a trading standpoint, you can, from an investment standpoint,
I just haven't been sold on most of them.
There are a handful, I think, that are worth considering.
But when you mentioned just the sector in general, obviously there was a having event
not too long ago, but what bothers me from the investment side of things is when I hear things like the Marathon Digital CEO come out and say, we're not selling any Bitcoin.
Okay, so you're mining Bitcoin, you're not selling it. I mean, imagine going and spending a lot of money to dig for gold and not sell the gold.
You've got to have some type of gross profit right now. I get there
are some other things there. There's some technology stuff there. There's some energy
side of the business. But for me, the core of their business is not a super appealing revenue
producing asset. That just doesn't sound like something I really want to put my investment
into personally. That's my view. And several of the, I guess, the other people that I'm in conversations
with a lot on the TradFi side, they kind of have that similar thought. They're just like,
maybe we're missing something in our world over there a little bit. But to me, the stocks don't
act well at all when you look at them. And the narrative, there's no real narrative that just
makes a lot of my investment crowd just want to jump into those.
Now, I know some people that will trade them because they will move.
They will have some volatile type of moves.
If anything, they've been great shorts every time they pop, especially over the last 18 months, I guess, at this point or at least the last year.
But, yeah, that's kind of my perspective there.
I would love to hear if someone has a
convincing argument, I would love to hear it actually, because that's been the main caveat
for me is how do I get excited about investing in a company whose main revenue producing asset
they're basically storing as value? I mean, is that not the same as like MicroStrategy and
GameStop just buying it and holding it?
Is it not just the same?
And maybe you get into the lending side of the business, which is another conversation as well.
But that would be my initial thoughts.
And I would love to hear maybe the bull thesis around those Bitcoin miners or miners in general.
Well, before we send it to someone else, I guess my question would be like why would i invest in those when i can just invest in bitcoin exactly viewing it from the
traditional finance standpoint like for someone who's invested in crypto in the past like i don't
understand you know the draw to them but i'll throw it over to uh noah or lady trader or Lady Trader? Yeah, sure. So I guess the idea of Riot selling Bitcoin for cash
can be looked at not burning more fiat for Bitcoin.
I think, for example, we ran two miners in my friend's mother-in-law's basement
and we would never sell the Bitcoin.
I know I'm kind of comparing apples to oranges here, but we never really sold the Bitcoin.
Actually, we never sold the Bitcoin for cash.
We just brought in more cash to pay for the electricity bills.
If they're a long-term play and they're not trying to make a quick flip, then what's the issue with continuing to raise money to pay for electricity or cover their costs and just hold the Bitcoin that they own in their treasury, wait for it to depreciate over long term?
over long term and it's that's a w to me you know
And that's a W to me, no?
maybe but i guess my my question for noah like um companies like mara like if they're not
selling their bitcoin like how like are you bullish on them do you own bitcoin miners
what's wait um do i own bitcoin miners yeah i own two okay i i mean like the stock but yes oh no no
i don't i don't own bitcoin mining stocks but i i'm saying that like who i don't know who it was
that was saying well why don't they they don't like the idea of them not selling any bitcoin
um to cover costs i don't know who that. But I guess what I'm trying to understand is
if they're thinking on a long time horizon,
then why would they sell into cash
when they can just burn the inferior asset
for the superior one in their eyes?
That's an interesting way to think about it, actually.
So I guess the thesis around that would be spend dollars to generate Bitcoin
and just hope that obviously the gap between the two continues to increase over time.
It's just how long does that take and at what point,
because at some point you have to turn the profit somewhere, right? At some point you've got to
start selling. So if they come out to me on an earnings call or one of these conferences and
they say, we're not planning on selling any anytime soon, I'm wondering where do I get value
out of that anytime soon as a shareholder? Why wouldn't I just, instead of getting the arbitrage there or the appreciating asset versus the depreciating asset, why wouldn't I just buy spot myself?
That's the one thing that I'm hung up on.
But that is an interesting theory or thesis there.
Yeah, that's an interesting point. I mean i just i always buy spot for me
personally i never really although in hindsight i my friends play on micro strategy last year was
a pretty good one they outperformed bitcoin but um it you know the i guess i guess maybe the idea
is that if you believe bitcoin is going to go towards infinity, I mean, I don't know if it is or it's not, then you can just operate a company or if you're an individual, you can just live your life.
My cat is losing her shit.
You can just live your life on debt, no?
You just keep borrowing against your bitcoin and if bitcoin just keeps
going up you just borrow more money yeah but like like from like or i guess so you mentioned micro
strategy why would i invest in micro strategy if my time horizon is 20 years instead of just
investing in bitcoin and then it goes for the bitcoin mining stocks well i i agree well i i
guess i guess the argument over a low period of time between my friend and I was that MicroStrategy will outperform. So it's kind of like, again, a pseudo long on Bitcoin. And over a long period, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if MicroStrategy is going to outperform Bitcoin over a long period of time.
perform Bitcoin over a long period of time. I guess, I don't know. I guess theoretically,
it could over a medium term or maybe even a long term if the market cap's lower. However,
I don't feel as safe in MicroStrategy or Riot. The whole point of Bitcoin is that you're not
depending on human beings. You're not depending on human beings.
Like you're not depending on human beings for the monetary policy.
You're not depending on any third party intermediaries.
There's no stock split.
You know, if God forbid Michael Saylor dies like tomorrow, I hope that never happens.
But if God forbid that happens, then I think the what's who's the new CEO?
What decisions is the new CEO going to come in and say, well, we're buying too much Bitcoin?
I don't know. So I just I don't I like him for short term plays.
Right. The the right socks.
What if I don't know what if something happens and all of riots overnight, a new technological breakthrough happens and all of riots, Bitcoin miners just go to shit.
And they end up in massive debt and they have to sell a bunch of Bitcoin to cover their debt and then the stock crashes.
I don't know.
All I'm saying is I don't trust these things for long-term plays personally, but that's just me.
All I'm saying is I don't trust these things for long-term plays personally, but that's just me.
No, no, I think, or at least I agree with you.
I'll throw it over to Brad.
Brad, what do you think about Bitcoin miners and the industry as a whole?
I'm excited to see more miners kind of integrate to essentially like solar, wind, you know, tide power, you know,
to be 100% renewable, I think that that's going, that whole meta is going to come back,
you know. And so I think that it'll be interesting to see. I'm a huge fan of proof of work overall,
you know, versus proof of stake at the protocol level.
So I think that once we can get more,
I guess, more efficient with our proof of work,
I think it's going to unlock a lot of doors
for essentially less in and more out.
I see, I see.
I thought of, I just saw Tropic throw up his hand mid-bread talk.
So Tropic, call you.
Hey, just a quick point to make on the whole the inferior asset thing, which was about the miners.
And just to give you a little perspective again, you know, being outside of the U.S., I can always throw this in here. Right.
So being in Jamaica, the exchange rate since I moved here went from 110 to 156 right now.
So one U.S. dollars, 156 U.S. Right.
So needless to say, when I get paid, I do not store anything whatsoever in Jamaican dollars because I know everything that I'm buying, such as phones and all these crazy things.
The spread – like you think inflation is bad in the States and all sorts of stuff.
Now, put inflation plus an exchange rate gap that's going.
Therefore, anyone that is storing money, which is not the vast majority of people in Jamaica, it's like you kill what you eat kind of thing for most people around the world. Right. But if you are 100 percent convinced that the asset that you are getting paid in or holding
is depreciating way less than something else you can put it in, that's probably how it might sound
crazy to like the average person. But, you know, that is one way of looking at it because if I got millions of dollars, there is no way I'm keeping it in U.S. dollars, and then there's no way I'm keeping it in Jamaican dollars.
So if I have a few hundred thousand dollars or maybe $50,000, $10,000, $20,000, I might keep it cash, a liquid in U.S. dollars, but no way I'm keeping it in Jamaican dollars.
I might keep it cash, a liquid in US dollars, but no way I'm keeping it in Jamaican dollars.
And it's just so much easier for me.
Let's say an emergency comes up a year from now where I need to deploy $10,000 in cash.
The exchange rate is going to work in my favor if I just switch it back at that time.
So them thinking of it that way and not wanting to sell it probably plays into that with the
inferior asset thing, because on the surface, it might sound absolutely crazy.
But I think if you put it into Forex, it makes a little bit more sense to the average investor that's on the TradFi side.
No, I'd love to hear a topic.
It's always a pleasure hearing from you.
Lady Trader. Kind of quiet today across the board
Did you guys not hear me?
Yeah, I heard you towards the very end
when you called my name
That's all
No, I think miners are definitely good
but I don't trade them as much
as I used to at one point in the past.
And I was pretty much, you know, just looking at mana and Riot.
That was it. Nothing else.
And now it's like terrible if I've added to my list as well.
So just a few miners here and there.
And I did take some positions on them earlier.
So I think it's going to give us another opportunity.
But I think in the long run, you're right. You're much better off just basically, you know,
buying the spot versus, you know, getting into some of these miners, especially if they are not
taking any profits, because that's going to be pretty awful like next year, right? When the
markets are red, if they haven't booked any profits already, if they haven't sold anything
this year, then how are they going to sustain themselves also next year when the when the bitcoin is in the red and so that's going to
be just just interesting to watch but also it does um i do have a plan on buying puts towards
the end of the year on some of these miners so i'm looking forward to that um i am going to buy
some calls as well i'm just waiting for a little bit just to kind of see where Bitcoin goes in the next couple of days because two months chart, I mean, I've
been talking about it quite a bit. The daily chart started to look a little bit bullish,
but right now Bitcoin is still, you know, again, starting to look a little bit bearish. We are
seeing the two month chart is already, you know, it was pretty awful. Monthly chart, one of the
indicators that I use, TRIX tricks is actually turning right as well which
is a very strong indicator of a trend change so we'll just see the next you know in the next month
or so where we actually end up with Bitcoin but you know if that's the case where next year is
gonna be pretty red and you know hopefully this year we are gonna according to at least historical
data we're gonna see some you know new new all-time highs unless the cycle has stopped working so we won't know that until the end of the year but i'm hoping that it's going
to continue the way it's supposed to and when we see new all-time highs the miners are going to
pump and hopefully they take some profit if not uh yeah i'm definitely buying some puts on them
um towards the end of the year and i'm looking for some call opportunities right now as well as we speak.
It's interesting.
I feel like if Bitcoin goes to peak highs sometime later this year or next year,
wouldn't it be a bad idea to short the mining stocks?
I don't know.
I've never shorted any stocks before.
I've never shorted anything before, to be honest with you.
But that's an interesting strategy yeah i think buying the puts is like the safest at least to me the safest way to short um or you know buying buying minor buying minor puts and
and some others and probably even like leaps right i'm so i'm looking at the two-year horizon
i'm just looking for those long-term opportunities and holding it long-term, hopefully buying it really, really cheap, and then selling it towards
the end or towards the bottom, because that's basically for you, it's going to be only a
year hold if you're following historical data, because then you can potentially sell it a
lot sooner than some other people will.
So I'm going to be looking for those long-term leaps on both miners and some of the other
opportunities in crypto sector.
Yeah, no, I love to hear it, guys.
It's always a pleasure hopping in these spaces.
I forgot what it was like to be a Spaces host.
I was just telling Emp, I was getting like four different calls during this space.
was just telling up i was getting like four different calls during this space and i'm like
i literally forgot what it was like to like not have your phone for any functionality
during the day so credit to anybody that's literally the main reason why i bought a mac
i bought a mac for that exact reason no yeah you know it is crazy. But I will throw it over to Zed.
I know, you know, we've kind of heard from everyone else.
So I'll throw it over to him, and then we can kind of get some final thoughts before we ended up here.
So, Zed, all of you, man.
Yeah, thanks.
I had kind of a question maybe for Noah or Brad.
Is there any potential in, like, doing any mining yourself?
I saw someone talk about, like, a device, I guess a miner you could get.
And I think it was only like 500 bucks, but someone had hit, you know, struck digital gold with it.
So there's like these miners you can get fairly cheap.
I haven't looked into it enough, but I was wondering if there's any, you know, any like if it's getting kind of to the point where it's not really worth even trying to do your own mining and maybe just looking at some of this did you see it at a
conference what's that you see that that five hundred dollars solo miner that you plug into
110 yeah i saw i saw like i think it was bitoshi or something or bootoshi or whatever
talking about it was it at a conference that's where you usually see them
I'm just yeah I yeah no I just saw it on Twitter then sharing it I have to find a post
yeah I mean I would look at those things as purchasing a $500 lottery ticket
because they'll tell you stories about how yeah this will like one guy on the globe
bought one of these and randomly was able to solve a block, and they got the block reward.
And so that's the way I would look at those things
because it's very unlikely that you're not going to make anything from that.
And, yeah, if you just, like, leave it plugged in for the next 10 years,
you're likely to kind of, I guess, lose money from the electricity,
but maybe it's negligible. However, if you happen to win a block reward, then you've made six
figures from that $500 lottery ticket. That's how I would look at those things. They look cool too.
Some of the companies that built them put in really cool LED lights and you can kind of have it plugged in there.
It's a conversation starter if you have people over. I think it's a cool ornament to have
in your studio or in your house, but I wouldn't look at it as anything more than that.
I wouldn't look at it as anything more than that.
It's optically cool and it's just kind of like a lottery ticket.
And conversations start as well.
You can open a conversation with friends that are visiting about Bitcoin mining.
And then as far as solo mining or I guess mining with actual miners, the bottom line is how expensive or cheap is your electricity.
Because if you have extremely cheap electricity, then yeah, you can run a bunch of even older miners.
And over time, you'll start to see sats in your wallet.
Our electricity was not cheap.
However, we were doing it in 2023.
And so Bitcoin's prices have gone up since then.
But it's two miners.
The amount of Bitcoin we mined is nothing to write home about.
However, it is cool to have virgin Bitcoin in a wallet that just spawned in that wallet.
It's not connected to any sex.
It's not connected to any other wallets i i think that i i don't and by the way i don't like this idea but i think that
likely in the future virgin bitcoin will be treating uh trading at a premium
yeah yeah thank you if you go to bitcoin nashville there's uh or bitcoin i guess bitcoin vegas this
year there'll be plenty of mining companies and you can ask all kinds of questions.
Yeah, thank you so much for the clarification.
That's really exactly what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure.
But that makes a lot of sense, so thanks.
And I guess just to kind of finish it out real quick,
I had this kind of a question as far as the general market as a whole.
Do you guys think it was just like priced
in because why what the heck's going on everything was uh we have all these bullish in you know
things happening on the macro scale you know just in general and then i think it was amp who said
there's so many bearish indicators so i was just curious you know what the heck's going on is this
just like a another bear trap you know like the 10th one this year so far,
or are we just, it's gonna take a while
till we see this final bull?
I think we are getting there.
You know, two months chart is a good indicator
to kind of take a look at.
There are some key areas that are coming up,
but if it was to play out the way
that the two month chart is printing,
then we are potentially looking at a red month, you know, also, like, at the end of this month. And then,
of course, next month, there could be some downside. But I think the minimum that we could
see would be maybe around 68 to 70k, if these current levels do not hold, okay? If this current
level holds, then we are, again, it's going to be fine. But the lowest that we could go, I think, is going to be 68 to 70K
because there are going to be some orders there.
But also remember, last bull market, a lot of people were expecting 25K to hit,
20K to hit in first quarter, and it did not give them that entry.
It just turned around at around 25K.
So maybe that last run that we saw was probably it. And I'm sorry, last time it did
turn around 27, 28k. And so this time it could be very similar move where it did not even retest
75k. And so there is a lot of liquidity on those levels. 68 to 70 plus 75, those are major numbers.
And so we'll just have to see how it plays out.
I do believe that following that historical data, a lot of times I see people basically
having doubts.
Same thing happened even during the bear market in November.
There was some good indicators that, hey, market is going to go up, like early November.
And people did not actually see a downside that they were expecting,
especially they heard me say hey you know what November is going to be the bottom and so they're
like hey was Lady Ra wrong because October you know it seems like now we're going up it's already
the first day of November and it did kind of start to go up and then boom everything got crushed
again and so we just have to be patient sometimes and I've seen these play out so many times
so I'm not you know I'm expecting the same move this time, maybe a couple of months of red.
And then, you know, then we start creating new all time highs.
So we'll just have to see.
And, you know, if it doesn't work out, then, of course, you know, I'll be smarter next time.
But I'm definitely expecting.
And also, I mean, fundamentals are pointing towards it, too.
Like we are what you mentioned, Zed, there is a lot of bullish news that's coming out.
And so, of course, on the macro level, we also have to track s p 500 and you know these other uh like you know
the other sectors and see what's going on with all of the tariff and everything that also impacts us
um so we need to keep an eye on it but i think overall we do have you know bullish news all over
i do by the way have to jump because i need to prepare for fomo friday that's coming up here in
10 minutes or i'm sorry three minutes
and Wolf Tim will be joining there too so I hope to see most of you there. Yeah guys I guess that
that's a good nail to the coffin. Please go check out Lady Traders Space. It's the hour right after
this. Always a pleasure joining those spaces so be sure you're checking those out. Always a pleasure joining those spaces, so be sure you're checking those out. Always a pleasure hosting with Emp and Moby.
There's nobody better to host with.
I know we replaced Cade, and it just went so much more smoothly.
So I think I will be hosting the Wolf Crypto Pulse spaces going forward to replace Cade.
Ladies, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Ladies, what is with the thumbs down?
No, that's unacceptable there.
We cannot do that.
We cannot do that.
Cade, come back, please.
We need you, too.
Everybody stays, like Sam.
Everyone else.
We want all of you, but Cade cannot join us.
Somebody stop, Sam.
All right, well, guys, it was a pleasure.
Hopefully, everyone has a good Friday, and be sure you're checking out Lady Traders space.
See you guys all later.
