Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
We’re So Back ep. 2 - Binance, Blast, Kyberswap and more
Recorded: Nov. 23, 2023 Duration: 1:10:49Space Recording
Full Transcription
Music
Music
Music
Music
Talk about what's going on in the markets, the whole nine yards.
It's been a pretty hectic two days.
A lot of action in the market.
Hello.
Yo, yo, yo.
Hey.
Hey, Brent.
What's up here?
Hey, Maude.
I'm going to do my best to call you Maude this time and not WSB.
What up, WSB?
Hey, fucking Brent.
Look at this dog.
All right.
It's been a long week.
It has.
It's only Wednesday and has been a long week already.
Lots, lots happening.
I've aged like five years this week.
Yeah.
Luckily, we're going to get a little bit of a break with Thanksgiving.
Hopefully, things calm down.
I'm sure some crazy shit's going to go down while everyone's with their families.
But this is actually what happens.
Because during like low volatility weekends, we've gotten a bunch of runners.
Pretty much every last like three crypto events, we've had a huge meme coin run to like 30 million.
Hams is the more familiar one that I'm aware of.
So you're probably going to, when no one's paying attention, something's going to launch, run to 30 million, and some new narrative is going to start.
Maybe.
I don't know.
I haven't really been like schizorotating that much.
I've just been sitting.
Yeah, I don't think there's a need to schizorotate right now.
Just comfortable in some low cap AI plays.
Stack a bunch of tau.
I'm already queuing up to show my bag.
Yeah, jumping right into it.
I thought we were going to give it 10, 20 minutes before we did that.
But hey, let's do it.
Bro, I'm not even in them.
I didn't go in the last like four days.
Bro, I got so much shit the last week.
Bro, you could donate to charity and somebody would tell you that you're doing something wrong.
It's insane, bro.
Wait, wasn't there a guy that was like railing on you for shilling like a 7,000x?
Bro, I got railed on.
I got railed on so fucking hard.
Like, friend hit's insane.
I literally should only get 7,000x.
Thanks for the 7,000x.
I did a dollar and did 7,500.
The max you could lose was literally like $2 at the time of posting.
And I get called a scammer.
I mean, clearly in this case, this guy was coping hard because he must have faded the call.
I don't know.
It wasn't even a call.
Like, I just, it was just like a new product.
It's like, there's probably going to be a, I think the biggest trend of 2024 is probably going to be like account abstraction apps that people are actually using rather than DeFi.
It's going to be interesting.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think that like we're finally, I mean, it's taken us like multiple cycles and many years, which is kind of sad.
But we're finally getting to the point where like we can have decent UX with crypto.
Yeah.
And like these types of products are the things that like, you know, the people that aren't still in the space right now, they're going to be coming in.
Like, we'll actually use.
I've been like toying this stuff.
Like, I'm building something right now that I'm like pretty confident I can get very close to the point where the end user doesn't know they're using crypto.
So, like, what you, what you building?
I'm not mentioning it yet, but it's sick.
It's pretty sick.
Like, through like gas sponsorships, like base is doing a massive promotion right now where they're offering gas sponsorships for projects, which is pretty cool.
Like, you can go through and like, you don't have to spend gas when doing transactions.
It's pretty sick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's a big thing for sure.
Is this a base project or is it main?
It's based.
Like, it's, it's the base team.
Oh, cool.
I mean, gas on base is like what?
Like a fraction of a cent for it.
Yeah, but it's still a barrier.
It's still a barrier for, for new people because like, just even having to have anything in your wallet.
Yeah, exactly.
So, like, there's like a lot that crypto can be used for that's not just like transactional layer.
Like, crypto's main use is kind of an incentive mechanism, right?
So, being able to take someone's time and reward them with something like of monetary value without them having to have anything in crypto is a pretty powerful tool, I think.
Yeah.
So, I'm not necessarily correct yet.
So, this is actually, you mentioned something kind of interesting that I've thought about a bunch too.
And it also ties into one of the topics we're going to talk about today, which is Blast.
But like the fact that like killer, you know, the killer use case of crypto is really like incentives.
At least one of them.
I think it's definitely like the thing that has been proven to actually work where there's a lot of other things where it's like it's not 100% clear.
There's like really value there.
But incentives is definitely a thing where there is value.
That's like, that's literally what I'm building.
I'm building like something on top of an entire like incentive mechanism.
And like some people scoff at incentives and I call them Ponzi's and stuff like that.
Where like obviously there are a lot of Ponzi's.
But like, yeah.
But it's also like if you think about it.
Yeah, but even more so here, the interesting thing is like coordination among large groups of people that are not necessarily like in direct communication or aligned in any way other than like this like shared incentive, you know, that they're tapping into.
I think there's a lot of really interesting stuff.
Like obviously a lot of DAOs have been kind of massive failures and like governance, DAO governance and stuff is not great.
But like if you look at like, I don't know, like one kind of really ridiculous example of this.
It's kind of like a pure form of it.
It's like if you look at like shitcoin communities and you see all these people just like instantly rallying together and like rating tweets and like coordinating with each other purely because they have like an aligned financial incentive.
It's actually a pretty powerful tool.
Yeah, it's pretty sick.
And the funny thing about that is the people who are constantly rating tweets and putting in the most work are the guys with like the smallest bags and the smallest amount of followers.
Yeah, yeah.
They'll just go to like the end of time to shell their bags to every single person possible before like every single content is invested in their shitcoin bag.
I actually created like a, I have like an entire protocol kind of like a meme coin protocol written up.
But I'm not going to build it, but I think it's relatively interesting.
And it's like entirely about those two things that you mentioned, which is like incentive mechanisms and people rallying behind their backs.
And it's like kind of like an incentive voting system and like holders vote on their, the meme coin and whoever, whichever community stronger gets like to yield from kind of like an incentive mechanism.
Oh yeah, I think we talked about this one time actually.
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
Like, I don't know.
Like it's, it's like looking at meme coins, you know, maybe seems like a silly example for this, but I think it's like, it's just like a really raw version of it because there's nothing else there.
So like, you know, there's nothing else there to distract you.
You can really see it at play, but it's also the case for like, you know, much, you know, much larger protocols as well.
Or like even, you know, L1s where like, I think you can very clearly argue that like, okay, the, you know, the token and the incentives and stuff are like actually necessary there for coordination.
But like, even at like the app layer, I think, you know, being able to incentivize users to take the steps and like have the behavior that you want them to have is super powerful.
The problem is that like a lot of the stuff in crypto, it's like, it's, it's not sticky enough.
There's no retention.
And so you have all these incentives that work incredibly well to get people to try things and do things that you want to do, you want them to do.
But then once you run out, there's nothing left.
Like the tie just goes out and it's just nothing.
Yeah.
There's no product.
Yeah.
It's like, there's no reason to use it past instead of mechanism.
But the incentive aspect of it works so well.
It's like, it really does work.
So like, if you, if you, if you apply it to the right things, it becomes very powerful.
The issue is creating that thing.
Right.
And I think, like, I think the issue is a lot of people are like focusing entirely on crypto.
Whereas like you can combine like a crypto incentive mechanism with a, like a normal product.
Right.
For sure.
And that's, that's where it gets really powerful when you take like a web two app that maybe isn't like as strong with against its competitors.
And then you introduce like a crypto style incentive mechanism and it instantly becomes like the most interesting of its class.
Yeah.
Agreed.
Like maybe like some kind of hub for scientific research.
You might.
Yeah.
I'm not showing that, bro.
We're not, we're not showing that.
It's, but it's actually a good example of what you're talking about.
Oh, if I need to buy more, it's odd.
So I'm not showing it.
Okay.
Okay.
But it's a legit good example.
Bro, I'm getting dumped on by the fucking head of BD there.
It's all right.
All we need is Tom Cruise come on with his Scientology and price will go up.
Bro, fucking Nani found the guy dumping and it's literally like a team member.
Oh, yeah.
It's the, it's the, it's the head BD guy, isn't he?
And I DMed him.
Oh, I'm like, I DMed him and that, and he hasn't responded.
So going back to incentives, what do you think is going to be like the number one thing that
onboards people?
I mean, obviously like AI slash.
I think, I think a game, I think, I know I'm biased because that's kind of what I'm building,
but I think a game.
You don't think it's going to be AI related where people can be relatively hands-off and
all the complicated stuff, just press a button, let stuff manually do it for them.
And they can just make money that way.
That seems a little bit more enticing than a game because it's less time consuming,
right?
You're kind of in this like current environment where people don't really have the time to
allocate to crypto because like life's tough.
There's a lot of people struggling to make money.
I don't think people don't have time to allocate to crypto because it's like, it's a full-time
job with what we do, but like using it as an incentive mechanism for like a normal app
that people would use, I think it's, what we were talking about earlier is like super
strong.
It's very sticky.
Yeah.
I think that like, I think people don't like, there's so much esoteric knowledge that you
have to have to like really get into crypto right now.
Like there's just like too many, you know, too many things that you have to understand
just like culturally and like how everything works and like who to listen to, who to avoid.
There's like so many.
How not to get scammed by a honeypot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean like you're like, newbies just get wrecked, right?
Like there's just like so many sharks just like waiting for people, you know, to jump
into the space.
And we saw this with NFTs as well, right?
Like, I mean, NFTs were like a pretty easy entry point to a lot of people because they
were simple.
It's like, okay, there's a community, there's a picture, like whatever, it's art.
Like this is all stuff that like most anyone could understand.
But a lot of people ended up just getting drifted or they're, you know, apes, you know, stolen
by like wallet drainers.
Like it was just like so many different things, right?
Yeah.
That's mostly what I'm investing in right now, actually.
NFTs?
Wallet drainers?
Products that make like the end experience really like, and they not compete with like
Unibot or like Rabi, Rabi, whatever you fucking call it with like, like the execution, how
fast it is.
But it like prioritizes for the user that doesn't care about execution or getting an
early, it prioritizes against like getting scammed, losing your apes, shit like that.
Yeah, I think that like, I think the majority of users are okay with like paying more and
like, you know, some people might call it getting scammed.
So for example, like Robinhood and like, you know, zero fee trading was like reduced a huge
friction for a lot of people, right?
But obviously like it's not zero fee trading, like their order flow is being sold, they're
getting worse execution, like they're paying more.
But it was like to them, like they were fine with that, like normally users are okay with
that because it's like, well, it's, it's easier for me.
I don't have this mental barrier of like, I have to pay $7 every time I trade, like I
can just open up the app, use it.
And like, it's easy.
It's simple.
It makes sense to me.
I think we need the same thing for, for crypto.
I think, I think we should change tangents.
Change what?
Heat.
He said we should, we should change topics.
Oh, all right.
So you want to talk about blast?
We'll get on that road.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, like incentive mechanisms are sick.
It's just, yeah.
Yeah.
We kind of covered some of this last time.
So we want to cover some new ground.
So obviously we have blast, right?
Parajum backed L2 launched, what?
200, $200 million in TVL in 48 hours, which is relatively impressive.
I think I saw some tweets that it was more TVL than the entire Solana ecosystem, which
doesn't really surprise me considering that sole DeFi has always been dead and probably
will be dead for a decent amount of time.
But I have yet to actually bridge, I guess it's considered bridging to the five person
multi-sig that is considered a bridge.
I saw today though, that they deposited like what, X amount of millions into Lido?
$200 million, I think.
Yeah.
$280 million into Lido.
It's pretty sick.
Yeah.
So is it, is it actually worth farming this?
I mean, bias aside, because you're an investor, is it worth like doing this entire thing, getting
Yeah, I think, I think at a certain point, I think there's definitely a point where you
can kind of calculate the, the probable APR.
Um, I think it was a lot more worth it to farming like yesterday, but like in saying that,
um, you can't withdraw, right?
So there's like, there's a massive trade-off, right?
If you have idle ETH, I don't see like the reason you wouldn't do it as we use like potential
exploit risk, right?
But I think a multi-sig is safer than a bridge, in all honesty.
Yeah.
I actually agree with that.
Like a lot of people were like, you know, shitty on the multi-sig.
I, I like, I'd rather have multi-sig risk than smart contract risk.
Yeah.
It's like, you're kind of, you're kind of like getting rid of the, um, the facade, right?
But like, I think it's like, if, if you're like a whale and you have the ETH, it's a whale
game.
Like there's nothing around it.
Like Frentech, right?
Frentech's a whale game.
No, it's a bigger whale game.
Well, yeah, obviously bigger.
Yeah.
So like, if you have idle ETH just sitting there and it's like, okay to risk it potentially
for like a low chance exploit, I would say like, I don't see a reason not to farm it.
The issue is like, you can't which roll until February or March, whatever.
Yeah, I think it makes sense.
If, if you have a bunch of ETH or Steeth that you were just planning on holding, then it's
like pretty low risk.
Um, and like the return's probably going to be decent.
I mean, you know, you can basically.
It's getting nuked.
Every, every like 10 million that gets put in there, the APR nukes.
Yeah.
What's the APR?
Like 30, 40% ish on top of what the Lido stake is?
I computed it like what I expected it to be yesterday and it was like really high, but
that was like a hundred mil.
The moment it's in there now, it's like 300 almost, right?
Yeah.
So it'd be like under a hundred, I would say.
Oh, that's actually not bad though.
I mean, that's better.
That's better.
But it's like nuking every time someone.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like, it's like 50% right now.
If you say 2 billion FTP, right?
So like 7.5% to the, to the airdrop.
I was thinking, I was thinking closer to six.
Like I have, I have no idea, but like blur did six, I think.
Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, something, something in that range.
Um, I like last personally, a lot of people are concerned that this is going to suck liquidity
out of like mainnet.
And shit coins and mean coins, but like everybody had that argument with like base and bold and
like, whatever.
I think it's different with that because like the people like in base and bold were like
actively in the ecosystem.
Whereas like the ETH that's being contributed to this, I think is more like from whales that
are just idle.
Yeah.
Someone deposited 10K ETH earlier, right?
Like a few hours ago.
Yeah.
10,000.
Yeah.
10,000 ETH.
Yeah.
I think I know who that was.
Um, I don't know if it's public or so.
So I'm not going to say, but.
Yeah.
Definitely don't dox them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's definitely not me.
If I had 10,000 ETH, I probably wouldn't be on the spaces right now.
Damn.
That was a low blow.
No, I'm kidding.
I thought you'd still, I thought you'd still be chilling with us.
No, I, I, I'd be, I'd be either in Mexico or on spaces in Mexico, either or.
Okay.
So that's fair.
Blast is interesting, right?
Because it's like no other chain has like come at us with this, like it's, it's Blast does
like economics really well.
And it's not trying to like advance the tech all that much.
It's more of like an economic focus chain and E, the EF really dislikes that.
But I think the Ethereum foundation is kind of behind in all honesty.
Yeah, I mean, I guess like definitely anytime you have like idle, um, hold on, Guru rugged
himself.
Let me invite him back up.
Rough.
But yeah, like it's like, um, the EF is so focused on tech that, or like the tech that
might like make it faster, improve, or not even improve experience, just like improve
the chain and their vision.
Whereas like, they need to be focusing on getting users, which is partially what I view
Blast is trying to do.
Like they're focusing on the end user versus increasing the tech stack.
Yeah.
I mean, how much, how much do you really think like it matters?
Like the native yield matters though, without the like extra incentives on top.
Like, I just don't know if that really moves.
I think it's pretty strong.
Because it, it, it instantly, like maybe, it may, let's not talk about mainnet, let's
talk about other L2s.
It instantly puts them like above Arbitrum, Optimism, any of these other L2s in like, if
you could just hold ETH on Blast, like Sirius, Peribus, like everything equal, why wouldn't
you hold your ETH where you're yielding?
You know, what's interesting too, is also the fact about how hard they gamified it.
So it could be a relatively good playground for shit coins in the future.
Yeah, I think so.
Also, like you're talking about, like, there, no other chain has been able to create this.
I, I wasn't like too fond of Blast at first until I kind of looked into it.
And like, the most interesting aspect is the only way to create this system where the base
ETH is yielding is by forcing it on the L2 layer via a bridge.
What was that proposal that was sent to Arbitrum earlier today?
That's not going to work.
That's, that's the stupidest shit ever.
Yeah, I didn't read too much into it, but it was something about how Arbitrum can make
like a hundred million dollars from, from Blast by introducing their bridge.
The thing was like, if Arbitrum stakes every ETH on their bridge, but I feel like, um, I
think that kills Arbitrum.
I think Arbitrum goes to zero if they do that.
Yeah.
I mean, why would a, why would a L2 support an L2 if they're-
No, no, no.
Not deposit to Blast.
They, they're saying deposit to STE.
So Arbitrum should stake all their ETH on their bridge.
The issue is it's like, when you're bridging to Blast, you're kind of taking that risk.
Yeah.
And you're getting STE versus Arbitrum can't just make their current ETH interest bear it.
It's not possible to just transition, I don't think.
So if they were to like stake all of it, it's just a massive security risk.
Okay.
Well, yeah.
I mean, like, like, by, by choosing to use Blast, like you're, you're taking on that
risk yourself.
You're making that decision.
Like you understand what you're doing.
But like here, it's like you, you, you did not bridge to Arbitrum with the assumption
that there would be that addition, because there is additional risk there, right?
Yeah.
There's a massive additional risk when bridging to Blast.
The thing I don't understand is like why, like Blast is in such a good position to basically
like vampire Lido.
I think that happens.
But I think, yeah.
I think they're focused on other things first.
But I think they do end up aiming at Lido.
Is 100% of the yield coming from Lido or are they staking elsewhere?
Like...
I think entirely Lido right now.
It's all Steath, yeah.
What's the other LSD?
Rocket, Rocket Pool, Rocket Swap?
No, it's entirely Steath right now.
And they're offering what, 4%?
I'm not sure.
I think if, I think there's a...
But I was talking to someone that's pretty well, he has decent knowledge on like
the business news and he was telling me it's a very low margin game.
So it almost might not be worth it.
I'm not sure if I'm convinced of the bridge yet, but maybe I will after this.
Yeah.
Like Lido doesn't make that much off their E.
It's just like how much TVL they have.
Yeah.
And that makes their token go up.
No, their token goes up just because of like...
It's...
Yeah.
The governor's coin.
Yeah.
Lido USDT.
How's a Lido chart look?
Oh, Lido chart looks great, actually.
Yeah, I think Blast is interesting enough, though.
He's...
Like, back to the other thing.
Having your base ETH yield bearing makes it so you can't just fork protocols on it.
Every protocol, I think, needs to take that into effect.
Forks are good, though, to an extent.
I mean, when you jump on a new chain, right?
You either launch...
You either buy a mean coin or you buy like a Uniswap fork.
That's like the first two things you do.
So, and obviously, it's...
The thing is...
I mean, it's not sticky liquidity if you're buying forks.
That's the problem.
Like, base was a pretty good example of that.
When you bridge the base, it lasted like, what, two, three weeks?
There wasn't sticky liquidity because you were buying like a Camelot fork.
You were buying a Uniswap fork.
You were buying a...
You were buying a Velodrome fork.
You were buying all these different forks and it doesn't really have any longevity to it.
But it's good for like a short-term narrative and quick, you know, quick gains just rotating and out of.
But people don't want to hold forks long-term.
They rather look for like fresh, innovative products.
Yeah, I think a lot of Blast to succeed will have to be innovative.
Because there's a lot of games you can play using the native yield.
So, like, I'm sure we'll see like an Anchor fork.
Just like leveraging the native yield.
It'll be interesting.
Wasn't Anchor?
Was it Luna?
Yeah.
That Anchor?
Yeah.
We're going to run back to the Luna playbook?
Yeah.
Blast is like, it's also not 100%.
Like, there's like massive risks that are attributed to staking ETH, right?
It's like mostly duration mismatch.
So, if we have another event like 3AC, we'll have a massive duration mismatch.
Which might not be great.
Yeah.
Go by to mark the bottom though.
Yeah.
Once all that ETH is liquidated, then you know that.
That just wouldn't be a forced capitulation, I don't think.
Yeah.
Unlike 3AC was.
I don't know.
Speaking of 3AC, how are we feeling about the Binance thing?
You guys have any opinions on that?
I mean...
Could have gone better.
Do you think it could have gone worse?
Was this a relatively good outcome?
I think this is a great outcome.
I mean, RIP, CZ, of course.
But like, you know, the market reacted like pretty strongly, I think.
I mean, we're holding up like, you know, no nuke at all.
Things are looking pretty decent.
And I think like Binance, you know, continuing to operate.
No user funds were at risk.
Pretty smooth transition.
It seems like they were like probably prepared for this.
Had everything like ready to go.
CZ, I think, is going to, you know, get away with like pretty much a slap on the wrist.
But like $4 billion fine is pretty hefty.
Like it's definitely nothing to like scoff at.
But it's not like, you know, not like a nail in the coffin.
So all in all, I think it's like a pretty good outcome.
And this was like the main, you know, it was kind of like the last thing that was hanging over the market.
So with this like resolved or kind of like on its way to being resolved, I think it's like pretty, pretty good positive sign.
Yeah, there's really no more FUDs ahead of us.
At least for now.
Don't put that in there.
Yeah, all right.
Knock down some wood.
The big issue of finance, I think it's like bad short term.
They're being monitored by federal agencies kind of.
So anyone that is sketchy money on there will probably move off.
I think that's the big negative.
Yeah, I think that's fair.
I mean, clearly, like, you know, in my opinion, there's, you know, clearly actions going on.
To like kind of clean up crypto for, you know, as people have been saying on the timeline, like for the suits to come in.
Right.
Like that seems to be the progression that that we're seeing.
Like we're, you know, we're going to see almost certainly the ETFs get approved.
You know, Binance being monitored.
Like everything is getting tightened up.
Right.
And like, I feel like some people may see that as a bad thing.
But from a price perspective, I feel like it's going to be positive, like mid to long term.
Yeah, I think so.
Also, especially for my Coinbase bags.
Yeah.
That's one thing.
That's one thing I don't know.
And I'm pretty ashamed of myself for not having.
Yeah, this is a pretty easy bet.
I'm still holding my like 35 fives.
Yeah, my mom bought the bottom, but I did not buy the bottom.
If you think about it realistically, like Coinbase, they're literally like, they were being priced at bankruptcy at the bottom.
Yeah, wasn't their revenue down huge?
Like every time their earnings came out, it was significantly lower than what it was projected.
It was bad.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's the opposite.
I think Coinbase was like a 9 billion market cap at the bottom or something.
Yeah, and their assets were like 7 billion or something.
Yeah, it was insane.
Like the cash assets also.
Yeah.
Like their debt was trading at like 40 cents on the dollar and the CFO bought like a shit ton back.
Yeah, I remember that.
But I wonder when their debt gets re-evaluated.
Is it like it's pretty low rating?
I have no idea.
I'm not big in the stock.
I think it's as good as I jumped on.
Now, but going back to this whole CZ thing, it's, I mean, it was the only overhang in the market currently.
And a lot of people were shitting on CZ, but like CZ made me a bunch of money during the SEC season.
So I have nothing against him whatsoever.
It's funny that people are saying that, we're saying that 4 billion really isn't a lot of money.
Meanwhile, that's an absolute metric fuck ton of money.
I guess for him, relative to like the size of his net worth and how much finance is worth, it's nothing.
But it's, uh, it's good to see that now we pretty much have like clear skies ahead going to the president's election.
We have a habiting.
We have ETFs.
Let's not say that, bro.
Dude, I just want a bullish project.
At least, at least let me give me some hopium, Brent.
You're putting some shit in the air that you should not be putting in.
Dude, but the air is pure.
The air is clean.
Bro, the, for the entire time to the bottom, we were saying there's nothing else that can fall.
And everything just kept falling.
What, but what, after, after Voyager, Voyager, 3AC, Celsius, FTX, what else fell?
Nothing else fell, did it?
Right?
Barry's like the last standing person.
No, Barry's, bro, Barry's dead.
Yeah.
I mean, his, his 90% of his portfolio is in ZEC, so he, he died in late 2021.
True.
I don't know.
There's, I think there's a decent amount.
Like Gemini just got sued today.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Genesis for losing customer deposits or whatever.
Like 900 million or something.
Pretty large amount.
Oh yeah.
689 million in customer deposit.
Wow.
That's a lot of money.
What's up all the exchanges losing customers' deposits?
That's why I'm an on-chain maxi.
It's my money, not many others' money.
It was pretty interesting, right?
These, like, there's a clear reason they lost all the deposits.
Everyone, like, that was a good actor, like Gemini, Grayscale, kind of saw FTX in the success of, like, these kind of shady companies.
And the only way for them to compete was to also loosen risk barriers.
I think they were offering, like, some crazy yield on stable coins.
Yeah, I was using it.
A long period of time.
Yeah.
Like 9%.
It was like 20, yeah, it was some ridiculous amount.
And I know Coinbase offers, like, 4% or 5%, but everybody was wondering, like, where the fuck is this yield coming from?
And I guess the yield was coming from customer deposits and lending out.
Oh no, they were lending to, like, 3AC and other trading desks.
Yeah, but is Gemini really, like, that big of a deal on a larger totem pole?
I mean, it's bullish for my coin bags because they're, like, the only other U.S. exchange.
I mean, how many normies do you talk to and they go, yeah, I'm buying shit coins on Gemini?
It's probably, like, one in a hundred.
No, you'd be surprised how many people use Gemini.
They're plastered all over New York.
Oh, really?
Oh, yeah.
I guess, yeah, because Coinbase isn't legal in New York.
I don't know if they are.
Are they?
No, they're not legal in New York.
You can't trade on Coinbase.
Their 24-hour volume is $51 million, which is relatively small.
Very small.
Yeah, it's nothing.
I think Coinbase Futures is probably doing more volume than that, which is also small as well.
Yeah, but I don't think Coinbase is too late to buy.
I suck at fucking trading, bro.
I just buy shit.
Yeah, chart looks really good.
Looks like it's going to, like, 213, maybe 310 on the high side.
Yeah, I mean, I think it'll go back close to IPO price.
I'm thinking, bro, I don't know, like, 888.888?
.888?
No, 888.888?
Oh, 888 got 888.
You know, bro.
What market cap is that?
I have no idea.
It's just, like, Chinese numbers.
Chinese meme number.
That's where he's bottomed.
It's actually kind of funny that, like, CZ made four his whole thing, because four is, like, a really unlucky number in Chinese.
Because it's se, which, like, sounds like the word for death.
So, yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know if you can do it.
I just Googled four on luck.
And then the first thing that popped up was four unlucky number in China.
Yeah, exactly.
It's associated with the word death.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is funny.
CZ has been going around saying four, like, this whole time.
This is, like, anti-flood thing.
And it literally means death in Chinese.
Yeah.
What did you guys get scared about the Kyber exploit?
I mean, I went through all.
I mean, I have 262 wallets.
I went through, like, 10 of them and then just gave up.
Because.
I didn't even try.
I was just, like, I hope it's just.
Dude, I was using Kyber, like, two days ago.
Are you using it directly or using it through Llamaswap?
Yeah, Llamaswap.
It was, like, it runs on base.
It was just, like, the only one you're working.
I was playing some Remnant 2 of Blubber.
And I saw the group chat.
I just started freaking out.
Like, my anxiety is still pretty heightened right now.
Wasn't, like, a lot of the friend pet volume is coming from Kyber swap, right?
Like, limits on Kyber?
Yeah, yeah.
Because, like, Kyber is the only thing working for front type for whatever reason.
So, what actually got hacked?
It was their LP pools, right?
Yeah, it was the pools.
It was their.
The math, right?
I just.
Someone just posted on our group chat, Guru, what happened.
What's good.
What's good about this.
What we did about it.
It was, like, Kyber swap elastic, whatever that is.
Yeah.
The pools got.
Someone entered.
Flashlow and pushed them out.
And then we drew more.
I thought that they were.
That someone was, like, minting LP NFTs.
Yeah.
That would have been scary.
Yeah.
Oh, I know.
Jeff sent a.
He sent a TX of somebody minting five Kyber swap LPs or NFTs or something.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
They were, like, they were just minting LP NFTs, like, out of thin air somehow.
I don't know.
It was definitely, it was definitely the price thing.
If they were minting LPs, that would have been really bad.
The best thing to come out of this, though, for me, is I went through a bunch of wallets
and looked at my, on revoke cash and looked at all these tokens I had approval for, and
I found so many dead bags that I had no idea existed that I just pretty much found a bunch
of excess money laying around, which is really nice.
Interesting.
Which also reminds me that I should probably go back to all my wallets and revoke a bunch
of cash, but gas is way too high to do that right now.
I think it's better to just get a clean wallet, honestly.
Yeah.
Time to add to my 262 wallets and lose more money, because I have a memory of a goldfish.
I just keep rotating wallets, honestly.
Did you guys see the messages this guy was leaving on chain?
Yeah, bro.
He said the R word.
I don't think I can say that on spaces, so I'm not going to say it.
Retard's fine.
The other R word's a little sensitive.
There's also one where he just said here.
He just said here.
He was doing step-by-step, like, step one, I'm going to exploit this way.
Step two, I'm going to do it this way.
Dude, he was, like, console logging, like, as he was exploiting this.
It was absurd.
It's pretty chat, actually.
I mean, RIP to everybody who lost money, but, like, the hacker was pretty fucking chat about it.
And then his message at the end was just, like, I'm going to go sleep.
Like, I'll negotiate when I'm rested.
I mean, I don't think these hackers have, like, I mean, Tornado's still active, right?
I don't really think there's a good place to, quote-unquote, launder money anymore.
Well, you know, it's like a tier three sex, but tier three sex is, like, Mexi are just going to lock your funds up.
They just, they use Rollbit, a lot of people.
Oh, really?
Pretty retarded to use for this, though, because Rollbit, like, Rollbit themselves has everything on you.
And, like, that's a single point of failure that's, like, likely to fail at some point.
Yeah, I mean, so, also, you can't do a lot of money, right?
You're not going to do 90 million.
No, no, no, no.
Absolutely not.
What idiot would deposit 90 million to Rollbit?
I've seen horror stories of people getting scammed out of $5,000.
Yeah, Rollbit's going to flag you for KYC if you deposit, like, a couple hundred.
Yeah.
Something not the best option.
Probably through NFTs, but I don't think we should talk about money laundering.
I heard Tron is the place to go.
Welcome to Werso Back, episode two.
We're going to teach you how to launder money.
How to launder money 101.
Yeah.
Not today.
This is a recorded space.
It'd be a very awkward Thanksgiving talk between me and my family.
So, yeah.
What bags are we shilling our families at Thanksgiving?
I've been focusing on lower cap AI bags because, like, obviously, Pals.
Bro, I'm so pissed that I didn't fucking buy when you sent it.
I don't know what I was thinking, bro.
Fucking, FJ started fighting it so hard, and I don't know why I didn't buy it.
Which one?
Bro, I'm not mentioning it fucking in here.
No, I'll mention it.
No, bro, they don't pay you either.
Fuck them.
No, they don't pay me.
I just, nobody pays me.
Oh, it's the one you didn't show me, Guru.
That one?
Yeah, it's the one.
The one I showed you, right, is up 2x.
But the thing about these, like, low cap AI bags is there hasn't been, most of these lower cap stuff is topping around 6 to 10 million.
There hasn't been any runners to 30 to 40 million.
Kind of like how, you know, Joe SPX, that whole basket was going before.
They all topped around 30, 40 million.
So I think we're due for a runner to 30 to 40 million, and it should lift up the rest of the AI market.
Because Powell went to, what, 120 million?
Powell's at, Powell, I think, hit a billion, right?
But, yeah, that's pretty much my main focus right now.
Yeah, Powell's weird, though.
Powell's like a, I mean, that team is like, you know, I don't know.
Like, they knew what they were doing, right?
So, like.
Who did?
Powell.
I don't think so.
I mean, at the end, they did.
They should have started cutting rates much, or raising rates much earlier.
Wait, raising rates?
Are we talking about the same thing?
Are we talking about the same thing?
No, we're not talking about fucking Jerome Powell.
Wait, who's Powell?
We're talking about Powell, P-A-A-L, AI shitcoin.
Oh, I don't do that shit.
Well, dude, you should start doing that shit, because he would have bought my bags at a $1.2 million market cap.
Bro, I was, I got front of that this week.
That's all I needed.
Instead, you were too busy fucking blasting your seat all over the place.
Okay.
But wait, wait, wait.
You don't think, you don't think J-Powell did a good job?
I think he actually crushed it.
I think he crushed it after the fact.
I think there was too much pressure on him to not raise rates earlier, though.
He raised rates pretty quickly, though.
No, no, no, no, no.
Once he started raising rates, he raised them insanely fast.
I think he should have been raising prior, though.
I mean, they announced they were going to raise rates, like, at the end of 2022.
Like, that was a pretty quick response, I think.
But, no, no, no.
I mean, like, our economy was so strong for, like, eight years, like, six years prior.
They should have started, like, gradually raising rates.
He's like, you raise rates to have ammo to cut.
Are you saying before COVID, even?
Yeah.
Okay.
That's usually what the Fed does, where they raise rates.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
But they were starting to a little bit.
But, yeah, you could definitely argue that that wasn't fast enough.
But I think his reaction to COVID was fast enough.
Yeah, yeah.
It was almost too fast.
Like, it blew up a few banks.
I mean, I don't think it was too fast.
I think those banks, like, SPB deserve to be blown up.
No, definitely, yeah.
See more bank liquidations and up only, boys.
I mean, the fact that we didn't have more bank failures, I think, is, you know, a testament
to how well that was done, to be honest.
Or how good your intervention is.
When were all those banks blowing up?
Was it, like, 20K?
Was it 18K?
It was all the Silicon Valley banks.
Yeah, I mean, it was...
I don't remember specifically.
It was just, like, earlier this year.
It was, like, I don't know.
We were probably at, like, 20K or something.
September 11th, 2023.
Or, no, May 1st, 2023.
There were, like, multiple misleading arguments.
No, SPB was, like, March of this year or something.
It was, like, spring.
Hey, guys, you're going to lose me for a bit.
I have to go pick up my girlfriend for a date, but I'll join back in the car in a few minutes.
You said two hours, dude.
It's been 35 minutes.
No, no, it takes me an hour to get there, bro.
What?
I guess that's what happened.
I guess that's what's happening.
There's holiday traffic.
Oh, yeah.
Especially when you live in China.
Yeah.
Shit, the TV's on downstairs.
Yeah.
I think I'm just going to lose you guys going down the street.
That's fine.
Sorry, me and Matt will hold down the fort.
See you in a jiffy, Brent.
All right, now we can talk shit about Brent.
Yeah.
Bro, I'm still here.
Give me, like, two minutes.
That guy don't have that dog in him.
All right, well, we can chill all of our bags now, at least.
Yeah.
So what are you boys doing for Thanksgiving?
Well, as a non-American, I'm probably going to watch the Thanksgiving parade from my non-American
television, and then I am going to likely eat turkey in celebration for all the Americans
out there.
But ultimately, just probably hang out with the family, drink some beers, and...
Do I drink?
Yeah, I don't smoke weed, though.
I quit smoking weed in May or March of 2023.
It was the best decision I've ever made.
Why do you quit?
Because I was smoking over an eighth of weed a day.
What?
Yeah.
Out of a bong.
With a half pack of cigarettes a day.
And that shit mentally ruined me.
Jesus.
Yeah, I don't recommend.
So I make this point on my Twitter all the time that if you smoke weed, it's definitely
negative EV, and you will not succeed in this space because you're hella unmotivated.
I don't care what anybody says.
We demotivate to you.
I'll sit here and argue this forever.
I smoked weed for 15 years.
But I've been incredibly more profitable in my shitcoin endeavors after I stopped smoking weed.
Interesting.
Do you notice better mental clarity and focus and things like that?
A hundred percent, yeah.
It's, you know, it's...
I mean, if you're smoking an eighth of weed a day, then, yeah, like, you're definitely
going to notice a difference.
Yeah, it's like the ability to, like, analyze information better, to make quicker moves.
You know, no naps during the day.
You're not, like, half brain dead.
And, like, I quit smoking in March, and then I became hella profitable in, like, April slash May.
So it's, like, usually it's, like, a month off, then your brain kind of, like, fully
resets, so, like, the timeline makes a lot of sense.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Speaking of research and stuff, I'm curious, like, how are you finding all these, like,
low-cap AI things?
Like, what is your, like, research process?
So it's, like...
So it's not complex, but it's, like, a mix of different things.
So one of my main strategies to finding stuff was checking, like, the leader cash tags on
Twitter.
Because when people shell their bags, which is usually, like, these low-cap or these low-count
follower Twitter accounts that don't have a lot of following, they'll tweet their bags
and they will tweet, like, you know, for example, Pal, right?
Like, that's, like, currently the leader in, like, the AI meta.
They'll tweet Pal as a ticker and then they'll post their bags, like, as a cash tag next to
So that's, like, probably the most basic form of research that you can kind of, like, filter
through a lot of stuff.
I mean, thank you, Elon, for adding all the bots.
And most of the stuff is, like, airdrop giveaways.
We're going to lose your board apes.
But that's kind of one method.
Another method is, like, obviously wallet tracking.
I think wallet tracking is not talked about enough.
It's going to kind of, like, these main coins that run.
You go to, like, the first, like, 50 or 100 TXs.
And then you, you know, you put a label on those wallets, add up, like, Etherdrops or
something like that.
So you can kind of track these wallets and see, like, where these people are aping.
Like, Banana Gun just released, like, their leaderboard for, like, top snipers.
I wouldn't recommend following those.
But it kind of gives you a good idea, like, what people are sniping.
And obviously, like, word of mouth, talking to friends, figuring out, like, what they're
aping.
And another way is just I have access to, like, metal tools and something called Alpha
Gardeners.
And they fire, like, Alpha.
I mean, it's not really Alpha.
A lot of them are rugs.
But it's kind of, like, different shitcoin signals.
And that's pretty useful as well.
And then people just DM me a bunch of shit, like, all the time.
I can't ever get to all the DMs because they're, like, 50 a day.
People just DM me stuff because, like, obviously, like, mutual, you know, mutual
beneficial relationship where you give somebody something, they'll give you
something back because you've helped them somewhere in the past.
But I found Aegis through my buddy.
And I found Nebula through my buddy as well.
So, yeah, networking is king.
Yeah, I get DMed a bunch of shit.
But I get DMed too much stuff to where, like, there's just too much noise.
And I can't be bothered to, like, sift through it all to find the, like, signal in it.
But I like wallet tracking a lot.
I think wallet tracking is definitely super useful.
If you find the – and you can also curate, you know, which wallets you track for different
things.
So, like, you know, obviously, you can find wallets that are really good at sniping.
But you can also, like, find wallets that seem to be, you know, quite good at, like,
longer-term plays and, like, investing more legit stuff early.
So, I have, like – I think that tracking non-sniper wallets is almost more profitable
because people who are manually aping versus sniping, they're doing some form of DD into
these tokens versus snipers.
They kind of just, like, chuck and pray.
They'll snipe literally anything and anything that has, like, some kind of volume spike
or some, like, bullish employer, whether or not it's, like, a coin-based employer or it's,
you know, it was – the wallet was funded, like, 180 days ago.
So, there's almost a better opportunity to, like, track wallets who are just, like,
manually aping to, like, you know, Unibot or Mitro or just, like, raw-dogging in on Uniswap
because, like, those people are putting in some DD and some amount of, like, research effort.
So, you're not getting people who are just, you know, spraying and praying every single coin.
Yeah.
So, you have kind of a better – kind of a better strike rate over a longer period of time.
The other thing with the snipers is, like, I mean, a lot of the sniper wallets that are
really profitable, they're, like, getting the contract address early or they have some
other kind of, like – you know, like, you're not going to be able to compete with them
at that game.
So, tracking them just doesn't really make a ton of sense.
It's, like, not going to be useful for you.
No, and, like, the banana gun leaderboard, most people just follow those snipes, and
those people are just making money off sniping early, you know, paying a higher bribe because
they obviously have more capital, and then just dumping on people within the first, like,
seven green candles.
Yeah.
So, that's another way.
I've written a decent amount of threads on, like, kind of funny low-cap gems, but I've
been – honestly, recently, I've been more comfortable aping size into, like, $2 to $3 million
market-cap coins because, like, I've talked about it as my ultimate meme coin thread.
It's – at that point, when you get to that kind of size, you have a lot of snipers out.
Like, proof of concept is, you know, pretty real at that point, and it's easier to, like,
buy, you know, $2 to $3 million for, like, a liquid – I guess one liquid, right?
If you have a 10% market-cap to liquid ratio, that's, like, a $300,000 liquidity pool, which
isn't much, but you can ape, like, you know, maybe three, four ETH, and then you can sell
it $10 million, so that's, like, a nice – you know, that's a nice, like, five to
10 ETH gain.
So, I've been finding a lot more success in aping those instead of, like, $100 million
shitters because they're, like, this mental barrier where you ape these $100 shitters and
you get too much of a supply or you ape too much and you worry too much about it, and then
you wind up fumbling a massive bag, which has happened, you know, to me multiple times.
So, that's kind of, like, this mental barrier I have to get over.
Yeah, I mean, I, like, I've been trying to find ways to, like, you know, what I'm interested
in is finding, like, the low-cap but, like, actual legit projects.
Like, you know, especially at the beginning of an actual bull market, like, you start to
see, like, during the bear market, like, you'll see a lot of the on-chain stuff is just, like,
pure meme coin or, like – hold on, let me add Brent back.
Like, just, like, you know, actual shit coins, meme coins, things like that.
But during an actual bull market, like, there are things that are, you know, a mill market
cap or even, you know, less that end up becoming, like, actual legit protocols that do extremely
well.
That's how all this started.
So, yeah, that's how –
Well, look at Sushi.
That's, like, the perfect example.
No, bro.
Sushi was like a literal fucking scam.
And then – who was it?
Chef Nami, which is supposedly Sandbank Freebin.
It's not SPF.
I know who it is.
It's not SPF.
Okay, okay, okay.
All right.
So, but besides the point, it literally started off as a scam.
Then they had, you know, they wanted – somebody wanted to take it over, a new head chef,
and wanted to become, like, you know, one of the top dexes in the entire space.
Dude, Sushi was one of my best trades.
Like, that was – I – yeah.
Do you remember the Sushi Scamwick to, like, $1.10 before it went parabolic?
Yes, I aped that.
I aped that.
That was exactly where I –
That was a legendary trade.
I will remember that for the rest of my life.
Yeah.
And it just, like, teleported to $7.
It was crazy.
I do not remember that.
It was December 2020.
If you look at the weekly chart, it literally went to $1,
and then it immediately went up, like, weeks later to $20.
So, like, a very nice 20X.
I made money just farming on Sushi when the rewards are so insane.
It's pretty sick.
Yeah, I'm hoping that – I mean, what are you guys' opinions on aping, like, these older coins?
Because, like, obviously, taking a look at 2021 and then coins that launched in 2017,
a lot of these coins didn't make all-time highs.
You have, like, exceptions, like, you know, you have ADA, then you have – what else is there?
I think it's a little bit different this time because in 2017, we had basically just a ton of vaporware ICOs.
And this past, like, cycle, we had actual – like, at least in DeFi, like, products and protocols that people continue to use.
And so, I think that some of those are actual, you know, actually decent buys.
And, like, generally, buying new coins is obviously better because you have a fresh chart, you have a new narrative.
Like, you don't have a bunch of baggage, you don't have any unlocks or anything like that.
Like, it's pretty much always better, I think.
But I do think that some of the, like, blue-chip DeFi protocols and, like, some of the teams that have continued to build during the bear are probably going to do, like, you know,
they're going to do much better than the shitty, like, vaporware ICOs did last cycle.
Yeah, I agree.
Can you hear me, by the way?
Is my mic working?
Yeah, we can.
Yeah, cool.
There's also definitely – I think there's definitely going to be diminishing – go ahead, Brett.
No, sorry, go ahead.
I was going to say there's definitely going to be diminishing returns on majors this cycle.
I have no really intentions of accumulating any majors except for, like, ETH and Solana and Bitcoin, give or take.
Maybe some, like, you know, top 100 alts here or there, like, maybe, you know, maybe Pepe and stuff like that.
But I definitely am in the realm of aping fresh narratives and kind of doing, like, the heavy rotation play.
Because there's obviously going to be way too many narratives going into this cycle.
I think AI – I mentioned this before.
I think AI is definitely a sticky narrative.
I think that's going to be a longer-term play where you can kind of apes up comfortably, hence why I'm heavily allocated to Tau.
But, like, all these little micro-narratives, I think that's fine to aping out for, like, you know, 50 to 100x gains.
But I have no intentions of aping, like, any of these older school coins for decent gains.
I like AI.
I like the AI narrative.
I like the PWA account abstraction narrative.
I think gaming – the issue of gaming is, I think, my narrative of gaming – or, like, the core profit should go to the players.
It should be hard to bet on, I think.
Because I think, like, the massive speculation element kind of kills these games, like Axies.
Unless they, like, create, like, a Ponzi where the token accrues revenue from the game.
But I think any, like, speculative token that's used in game is destined to fail.
That's what – I think gaming is kind of interesting.
Then what? Revenues distributed back to holders?
Yeah, like, the role of the model where it's, like, buy back and burn.
I mean, just looking at, like, the basic – yeah.
Just looking at, like, the basic trend of humanity.
It's just a bunch of 14-year-old basement-to-dollar losers who are – don't talk to girls, don't go out, don't socialize, and all I do is just game.
So just assuming that probably, like, the, you know, the whole college narrative is kind of, like, slipping out the door.
I'm really bullish mobile gaming.
Interesting.
I don't know – I don't necessarily know how, like, shrapnel and these other FPSs are going to do.
I think the incentive mechanism for, like, FPSs is kind of harder to pull off.
Like, like, the big incentive thing I see is, like, CSGO skins.
But, like, I feel like it's a bit harder, I guess, instead of – I guess if they just do, like, skins and loot box and that stuff, like Overwatch type thing.
Like, I'm really big into mobile gaming.
Have you seen the price of CSGO skins over the last 30 days?
Yeah, bro.
My boy Jez got murdered.
Yeah, they're down – they're actually down only.
I mean, it makes sense.
CS2 is kind of a disappointment.
I mean, speaking of skins, what do you guys think about NFTs?
People, bro.
People.
Yeah.
People all the – bro, I have three.
I know.
I have three people.
They're only – they're literally just going up in price.
Not fast.
Pretty slowly, but it's not only.
I think NFTs are an obvious play.
I think we're getting close.
But I think it's –
I think we're getting close.
Yeah.
What are you going to buy?
It's not early to allocate.
Bro, what the – no.
Punks.
It's not early to allocate, bro.
The shit – no, yeah.
But the shit that you want to buy is already up, like, 40% off the bottom.
Yeah.
Punks are up 64.
40% is nothing relative to, like, where we're going in the bull market.
Like, if I'm worried about a 40% gain, then, like, I'm just going to not fucking trade crypto.
I'm going to go be, like, an Amazon warehouse guy or something like that.
True.
I mean, but, like, what are you – like, the collections I was looking at were Milady's,
but that's off the table.
Now it's, like, pudgy penguins and pucks.
Like, is there anything else that's relevant?
Mad lads.
Yeah, dude.
Yeah, mad lads.
There's some Salonica system stuff.
If you're going to be showing mad lads, you better fucking show tensorians also.
Nah, I don't fuck with the tensorians.
I faded those.
Don't fucking leave my bags out of it, bro.
I faded those, too, so.
I like breadheads.
I did not.
They're cheap at Tussol.
It's a dream, I was.
No, I fucking –
I bought the bonks and the tensorians.
One of them went up, like, 4X.
The other went to zero.
Yeah, but I think that – I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that NFPs are going to have
their time again.
It's usually just kind of a later cycle thing.
It happened, like, tail end of 2021.
I think they're going to look different, though.
I don't think they're going to be, like, these, like, ultra-gambling PFPs.
I think they'll have really interesting ecosystems that are created.
Like, I think we'll see, like, a game that runs NFTs as skins or, like, some other use.
Like, I think NFTs are going to, like, be massive just in very –
That'd be cool.
Well, specific use cases, not just, like, the profile picture.
You're poor if you don't have a profile picture over 200,000 use.
I mean, it's going to be both.
That's a narrative shift.
It's going to be both, right?
Like, we're definitely going to see some of those.
We're going to see some NFT drops that just are, like, disgusting happen again, I'm sure.
But it won't be nearly, like, the amount that we saw last cycle, for sure.
I think it'll, you know, it'll be, like, you know, whatever.
Some big influencer, like, drops a collection and it just, like, goes crazy and that'll be, like, hot for a little while and then it'll die.
But the more interesting stuff is definitely, like, NFTs within games or NFTs within some kind of, like, social app or something like that.
Like, I think it's, like, NFTs for NFTs' sake I think is a lot less interesting now.
And it's more, like, okay, NFTs are, like, a tool, just like fungible tokens are, that need to be, like, intelligently integrated into whatever the, like, product or protocol is.
Exactly, yeah.
I think we're getting, I think that's the same with, like, ERC-20s, though, right?
The difference is, like, meme coins are taking off and, like, continuing.
But I do think, like, we need to create, like, specified use cases for them.
Like, the roll bit model works really well where they're pumping their fake revenue into buyback burn.
It's real revenue.
It's real.
It's 100%.
I don't know.
It's, it's...
As long as I have my roll bit bags, it's real.
And then...
Bro, it's going, it's on, like, 30% from the top.
It's going to fucking zero.
It's bad.
Wait, hold on.
I want to make a point really quick.
It's, like, obviously, if you have been around in the NFT space or the utility space for a long time, like, anytime an NFT collection dropped any form of utility,
it was relatively bearish.
Like, I guess utility...
It was shitty utility.
Yeah, but, like, I guess you...
Yeah.
Go ahead, go ahead.
Yeah.
It's just, like, I mean...
People, like, phase launching fucking stake and yield shit.
Like, no one wants that.
Yeah, nobody wants that.
But what do people want, right?
It's...
Well, they want numbers a lot.
Yeah, exactly.
So, for a utility standpoint, I think the best utility standpoint, you know, at least approach for NFPs,
is not even, like, utility.
It's just, like, some form of Web2 bridge where they can drive revenue outside of, like, diluting their collection with additional launches.
That's, like, probably the main utility where they, like, say, okay, Normie's actually going to buy my stuff now instead of, like,
oh, I'm going to do some kind of staking and get some, like, useless token.
Or I'm going to hold this and I'm going to get this.
It's just, like, some form of Web2 something.
I think this is just, like, the classic problem in crypto.
So, it's, like, people, especially during the bull market when everything is going crazy
and there's so much capital flowing into, like, such a small number of, like, legitimate projects
to where prices just absolutely balloon and go crazy.
Like, people want a massive speculative premium.
And if your product doesn't have the capability to have a massive speculative premium, then people don't want to buy it.
So, that's why when you attach, like, real revenues and real, like, backing to things, people, like, those things do so poorly during bull markets.
Why?
Because, like, you're pegged at, like, the real, you know, value that's accruing to what the best it is.
And that you don't want that because what you want is you want the 1,000x.
You want the 10,000x.
You want the massive, crazy speculative premium.
So, you need to, like, invent some kind of, like, new thing that has some kind of new narrative.
The thing is, like, the narratives of the past don't work again because everyone's, like, oh, those things were Ponzi's.
So, you got to invent a new Ponzi to where it's, like, oh, this has a chance at, like, being memed that it's, like, real and that it could sustain or whatever, right?
Like, Luna just passed, like, oh, whatever.
There's other ones, right?
But, like, you got to invent something new and obfuscate, like, Ohm.
Like, obviously, Ohm was a Ponzi.
Obviously, Axie was a Ponzi.
But they were, like, new Ponzi's to the point that, like, everyone could rally around it and pretend, like,
it's not going to collapse and it's just going to keep going up forever because we've invented some kind of, like, new financial paradigm where, like, you can create a token that never goes down, right?
It's insane.
But, like, you need something new like that.
So, anyway, I think, like, you know, with NFTs, like, and with all this stuff, really, you got to come up with some kind of, like, new spin on things, some kind of new obfuscated Ponzi to really get to, like, 1,000x.
If you want something that's going to sustain long-term, then, yeah, it's got to be something that has, like, real revenue attached to it or real value or whatever.
But, like, that's not the stuff that's going to, you know, 10,000x during the bull.
I don't know.
I do think we'll, maybe it's an optimist to me, but I do think we'll see real companies show up this time and real use cases that sustain longer than a year or two.
Yeah, but do you think those things are going to have the same kind of, like, return profiles as Ponzi stuff?
Yeah, because I think a lot of them will start at, like, a million-dollar market cap or super low and actually work their way up because everyone doubts that it will be successful.
Like, a lot of the stuff that I'm seeing now in pitch checks, like, even just this month, is 10 times better than anything I saw in the last two and a half years.
Oh, really?
Yeah, like, I'm actually getting, like, interesting decks where I comb through and I actually want to read it, which is super weird.
Because I really fucking hate reading.
Some people say I can't fucking read, bro, but I don't even know.
Sorry, reading is good.
My girlfriend asked if I could read.
It was pretty funny.
If I read, I'd be a lot more articulate.
I wish I read.
But instead, I just slam buttons on you to swap, so that's my reading.
Yeah, I just read chats, bro.
I can't even typo.
Yeah, it's pretty much oh man, oh man, and that's it.
Yeah, interesting, bro.
I was talking to this person that works at a VC that's not a DJ, and I said man, oh man, and interesting at least five times.
And they called me.
I was like, oh, this conversation's going real well.
Five men, oh man, seven interesting.
I'm like, fuck.
Dude, I did a tally on my Twitter, actually.
In the period of two weeks, you said 42 interestings and 100 man, oh man.
I'd like to see a Dune dashboard for this, actually, and correlate with market performance.
I can explain why I say it.
Especially on Twitter, I'll have something kind of longer-winded written out, and then I realize no one really cares, so I just delete it and type man, oh man.
Like, 95% of the time I say it, it's these, I just, I don't want to type the longer-winded response.
So it's just information compression, then.
You're just, a man or man conveys a lot of info.
Yeah, and then there's like an aw, which is like, yeah, it's fucked up.
Interesting, which is like, it moves between, oh, that's actually interesting, or like, I don't give a shit.
And okay, it's just like, sick, man.
Wait, how am I supposed to tell the difference between an actually interesting, interesting, or I don't give a shit interesting?
Nah, bro, you can't.
Okay.
Bro, I say it to my girlfriend, she's okay with it, it's pretty funny, I don't know how.
She must hate, she must hate you.
She's more on, yeah.
Is she, yeah.
Is she in the car right now?
No, no, I'm picking her up.
She might be in the audience, I don't know.
Sorry, we're probably going to wrap it up soon anyway, and then it's been a solid hour.
Yeah, um, yeah, it's pretty funny, I also like, type it in group messages, if I, if I don't fully trust everyone there, I just do man oh man, interesting, okay.
I have some PTSD, some trauma.
All right, I guess, I was going to ask, but I feel like you're not going to want to go into that, so, we'll save that for another time.
No, it's just like people leaking DMs and shit.
Oh, okay.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's, let, let's not get into this, dude.
No, we're not going down this road, right?
Oh, yeah.
Not, not, it's a Wednesday, okay?
Not on a Wednesday.
We have the holidays tomorrow, it's going to be a time of family and peace, we're not going to get into this stuff.
Gurur, gurur, what are we doing tomorrow, are we gambling?
You want to, you want to gamble on RollBit together, or you play some slots?
No, Metaverse, bro.
Oh, yeah, let's play, let's play on DG, I'll be my toast character.
I'm down, bro.
All right, let's, let's do some, uh.
Can you guys please, can you guys please use RollBit?
I need, I need RollBit to have more users.
Yeah, I need to use that.
I got a custom.
Do you guys bet on Shuffle for the, uh, Crypto Finite?
No, when is it?
This weekend, right?
Yeah, I bet on Pat and Loom Dart.
I hope Loom win.
Do Loom win in 2021?
No, Rookie, Rookie won.
Oh, oh, that was the fight, yeah.
Dude, I bet, but Rookie knocked him down once, and so he got the fight.
I bet a lot on Pat, bro.
She scares me.
Who's, there's Loom fighting?
I've met her a bunch of person.
Yeah, bro, she scares me.
I think she could beat the shit out of me.
Like, I didn't say much.
Like, I'm not, like, that big of a dude.
I, she's pretty scary.
A lot of, a lot of women could beat you up, Brent.
Bro, I'm pretty sure your girlfriend beat you up.
She's actually, she's actually listening right now.
Oh, hey.
What's up?
Hey, uh, hey.
Her name is Coin Chica.
She is the person with the, the strawberry jam on her, on her profile picture right now.
What's the, what is the jam?
It's, uh, I think it's strawberry.
No, we're not going to answer that.
Yeah.
But I think this is, uh, I think this is a pretty good, I think it's a pretty good, good, uh,
second podcast.
You guys want to wrap it up and call it a day and we'll rehash next week?
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Yeah, I'm down.
All right, everybody.
Thank you for coming to We're So Back, episode two, Binance Blast, HyberSwap, and more.
Hopefully you guys learned something or two.
Can I, can I show my Blast RefLink?
Oh, God.
He's not, he's not willing to shill the tokens that I also own, but he's willing to shill his
Blast RefLink.
All right.
If anybody wants to deposit money into a five-man multi-sig, please go on Brent's good at Twitter,
use his RefLink, and pump his bags that he has a seed round in.
Make sure you also FUD him on Twitter and, uh, call him out for all terrible things that
he's done in his past.
And, uh, I hope I, every, I wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving.
I wish everybody a prosperous life, and I will see everybody next week.
See you guys.
All right.
All right.
Take care, buddy.
Bye.
Bye.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
I got to take care of my squad, before everybody get wrong, for that night job and day job, that's why I got rich, that's why I take care of my squad.
