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What causes a bull run?
Recorded: Sept. 10, 2023 Duration: 2:17:43Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hi, Sarah. How's it going? Let me just quickly get you up here to co-host Eamon. I see you down there as well, man.
All right. I believe, Sarah, you're on stage. How's it going? How has your week been?
I am doing well. How has your week been? I'm excited for today's topic. Not going to lie, I think it's interesting.
Yeah, thank you, Sarah. My week was amazing, as always. Just busy working and also doing a few things on the side as well.
But yeah, I also think that today's topic is going to be really interesting because, you know, I think there's a lot of people who speculate by themselves.
You know, when is the next bull run coming? But I think it's a better question would be why do we expect this bull run?
All right. Right. And also, what's the value of it?
And I think we first need to understand what is a bull run in order for us to think about what can cause it.
So I think we're going to dive down this conversation. Also, I'm looking forward to what people's going to, you know, have to say about the bull run analogy.
But I first want to get down to that part. So I think we're going to have a lovely conversation.
And you say your week was good. So what have you been up to recently, Sarah? That's exciting. What have you been up to?
Well, September is a busy time for farmers in general. So making sure that we have all of the gardens harvested and then you start the process of putting them to bed.
You know, it's a very interesting thing, the moving of seasons. And I think folks are in tune to that.
And that's why, like, even today's conversation is so interesting to me, because seasons have with it patterns.
And humans love patterns. They love following them. They love tracking them. They like sussing them out.
And, you know, we learn little bits and pieces from the way that these patterns, you know, visit us.
And so, you know, when it comes to September, the first thing we think of is pumpkin spice, Ugg boots looking like Han Solo, kids going back to school, yellow school buses, and all of those things.
But it also really puts into perspective all of the things that we need to get done before winter comes.
And I think that's a very fascinating thing.
And I think here in the space right now, it just seems like we have had a couple seasons of winter, you know, where you have four solid seasons of just winter, or what we call the bear.
But I think things are changing, and the narrative's changing, and how we identify those patterns will make us happier, because there are a lot of winds in our space that are going unacknowledged.
And when we start thinking about them and seeing them, then things aren't as ugly as they can sometimes feel.
I made you a picture, by the way.
I asked the mid-journey minions to summon me up a bull.
And so, in our little purple bubble to remind folks to add their own little bits and pieces to the conversation.
Yeah, I made that just for you this morning, Daniel.
Sarah, thank you so much.
It just adds so much to our conversation today.
And, you know, as you explain this, it is important, you know.
All these little discussions that we have also, in my opinion, brings – it gives more meat to the bone, if I can explain it like that.
You know, while people are in this space, some people are busy building, some of them are busy learning.
And as we can go through, we can start analyzing these things.
You know, most people don't even know what a bull run is.
I'm pretty sure most of us do.
But, you know, for people who are new, they might not know what it really means, what it signifies, how long does it last, all these kind of things.
You know, especially as someone who's new, I just take myself when the word wag me came out back in the day.
For the first few times I heard it, I was just nodding my head, you know.
Yes, wag me, whatever this name is.
And it's only late until I found out what it actually meant, you know.
And then, obviously, there was these funny spinoffs of that as well.
But, Sarah, that's lovely.
I hear that, you know, as you say, it never stops on a farm.
It's always, always busy, you know.
And I guess – but that's also the beauty of it, right.
There's always something, something to do.
So, I am very, very excited for this conversation.
Monkey is also – Monkey Zoo is also in the house.
He usually has a space right after this one, which we're also going to talk about as well.
But, yeah, Sarah, what's on your mind?
Yeah, I was just going to say you brought something up about a farm.
And, actually, I started it.
One of the things that we should probably concentrate on, too, we all are farming.
You know, Chia puts that out in our face kind of sometimes, you know, because that's what you do.
You don't mind.
You farm, Chia, right.
But each and every one of us in this Web3 digital overlay are basically landowners.
We occupy this space and this time.
And how we cultivate the things that we put in the ground, the things we put in our head, are what actually takes seed, right.
So, you know, the idea of farming and a bull market is very integrally interlaced because that analogy goes far.
You need to have a bull or you need to have the proper animal to till the fields, right, and to ready them for, you know, a harvest.
And so there's a lot to this analogy.
And when we think about this space, we have to think about it in those terms.
How do we cultivate?
How do we grow?
How do we thrive in this environment?
Whether, you know, whatever season it happens to be.
So I just wanted to put that out there, too, before we go and talk to Monkey.
Because, you know, I love Monkey also.
So there you are.
Sarah, it's so important because, you know, for me, this kind of bull run that we're going to talk about right now, it almost kind of feels like, you know, at a farmer's market, if you just put it like that, you know.
And all the farmers are bringing their produce to this little market on a Sunday or whatever it might be.
And they're ready, you know, and those doors open or at least the gates, whatever, wherever this is situated, right.
And everyone comes in and they just take the best fruit and they're busy hyping around, going around.
And right after the farmer's market when there's a lot more less produce and everything is now taken, the whole vibe, right, calms down.
And it kind of is the same as that in crypto.
And I see it as a lot of people in the space who's truly here to build and innovate, they get stuck around, right, and they – well, they're stuck – how do you say that?
They are just – and they are here, right?
They're here.
Is that right?
Yeah, they're here.
Is that right?
They're here.
And they're building.
And importantly, they are building because they know what they are building is going to be valuable in the future, right.
And that is what's so amazing, right.
So a lot of people that's now busy building and I see Monkey Zoo building, you are building in your own way with the, you know, the maker's space that you are creating.
And this just all grows and it kind of amplifies every time that a bull run comes along.
And yes, you know, as sad as in my town, there's definitely going to be another bear market that we've all been through this past two years.
And why is that so significant to mention that?
Well, I think it's mostly to do with morale.
A lot of people lose morale, you know, during these times because there's not a lot of things to keep them around.
And when I say things, there might not be an abundance of opportunity for them, you know, automatically just there.
And when I say that, it's because everything is down.
A lot of people don't participate as much and all these kind of things.
But that is crypto for you.
So I want to analyze that a little bit so that we can at least understand this better from a perspective of creators.
And what does it mean?
You know, what does it mean for when bull runs come along?
But let's start off by asking the question, what is a bull run?
Right.
I think we need to have a nice definition for a bull run.
And then we can speak about what can cause one.
So we're going to do that.
We just want to say hi to Monkey and anyone else who wants to hop on stage and join the chat.
But you don't have to feel scared.
We're not going to bite.
We're really relaxed.
And we would love to hear your voice as well.
But Monkey, how's it going?
How's your week been?
Hey, guys.
Hey, Daniel, Sarah.
Yeah, no, very good.
Very good.
Exciting week for myself personally.
There's lots happening with some behind the scenes stuff that we're creating.
And, yeah, it's coming on.
It's coming on a treat.
And, yeah, interesting conversation today.
I mean, bull runs are, you know, what everybody dreams of, aren't they?
And, you know, they come and go.
And I think each bull run, let's talk about the bear markets for starters.
I mean, let's see what's happened during this bear market.
We've lost FTX, which sort of dragged down Solana to sort of next to nothing.
Terra Luna's gone.
And if you look at the bear markets before that, you know, every time you lose somebody big or something that you think is pretty indestructible.
So it's interesting times.
I think building during this time has been, it's certainly been amazing for us to be able to build during this time of a bear market because it's made us sort of think about how we structure what we do from a business point of view to, you know, to operate and survive during this time as well as a bull market.
And that's what's really important.
And I think, you know, you've got to, you've got to, when you're in these good times, you've got to, like a lot of things, you know, save some away, squirrel it away for the bad times.
And, but certainly building during this time now has given us sort of this appreciation of, right, I'm pretty confident we can survive and thrive during a bear market.
So, you know, bring on the bull market and, you know, during that time, let's not get too carried away and let's, let's still be sensible with it.
But, yeah, no, interesting conversation.
I'm looking forward to getting stuck into it today and finding out what everybody's thoughts are.
So, yeah, I'll pass it back to you, Daniel.
Oh, Markizu, I love the fact that you brought up the bear market and talking about, you know, finding a way to actually still make it viable, sustainable, to keep on operating when things aren't as hyped up.
And that's really important because what you see with most people coming into the space, they get so overwhelmed when there's a bull run.
And the reason is, we will discuss some of these reasons, but I personally see it that it gets so out of hand and that people get so hyped up that it goes from the extreme high to the extreme low.
And what happens is, when it's super high, you know, people start pretending to make mistakes because they're not sometimes prepared for, you know, the big waves coming.
But the same goes for the bear markets, right?
They're not prepared and thus they just can't sustain it to stay around.
It's just not viable.
So, it's really important to find that balance and not get overly excited when the bull market's here and also not to get overly discouraged when the bear markets are here.
And I think you've placed it so nicely in there, you know, because if you can structure yourself, your project, your business, whatever you are busy doing right now in such a way where you can calculate in these kind of cycles, crypto cycles, so to speak.
I think that is the way that you can actually make it sustainable in this Web3 space leading into the future.
So, I think that's a really good way of starting this conversation.
I would like to open it up to more of a definition of the bull run right now so we can actually start getting a definition of that.
And then we'll look at bear markets.
And now, then we're going to go into how does a bull market exist?
What causes it?
What's the catalyst, right?
Everyone wants to know.
Sarah, what's the goal?
Well, you know, I used to be a broker for Morgan Stanley.
I was an analyst type.
And I was really young.
I was the youngest in the bullpen.
And, you know, it's interesting.
We started the discussion today about patterns, right?
And we talk about how these things move in cycles.
And one of the things you have to differentiate between is the microeconomics and the macroeconomics.
Micro, we live in this tiny little cosm, this tiny little ecosystem that we call Web3.
We call crypto space.
And, you know, that has a lot of, it's symbiotic, right?
But it's also kind of separate.
It doesn't follow some of the traditional rules.
You know, so when we think of, like, let's say a traditional bull market, we have to kind of think of things like liquidity, disposable income, credit.
You know, and then we have to add in little things like the cost of things, goods, you know, your basics, including, let's say, energy and property taxes and all of those things that, you know, make it so that there's less disposable income for people to invest.
There's less money for people to lend to other people.
And it makes things kind of crawl.
They go into hibernation when all those pieces don't line up, right?
And we have to think about what makes the Web3 bull market.
Like, what makes Web3 go?
It means, you know, we need more innovation.
We need new things.
We need it to be safer.
Because, you know, as we all know, markets have to be stable.
That's what people love.
People love stability.
And when something is stable, when something is safe, they're more apt to invest.
And when you have more money to invest and more money comes into the ecosystem, that fuels that engine.
And, you know, you couple that with maybe, let's say, regulation.
Regulations that allow you to keep more of your profits, right?
You know, like Monkey Zoo had said, there was a chilling effect, not just after FTX and all of those various failings, right?
The hyper overextension.
You had banks failing.
But you also have big things like Vitalik himself got scammed last night.
And you have other things that are, you know, kind of chipping away at our trustless trust that we have in this ecosystem, right?
And so people are just thinking to themselves, if I have an extra $100, am I going to put it in the mattress or am I going to put it in Web3?
You know, especially if food costs and everything else go up.
You know, there's always these kinds of questions.
And those are kitchen table issues, right?
When you think about all of this stuff, these are kitchen table issues.
Do I have enough money to, you know, pay the bills?
And, you know, when you think about the statistics, I think it was yesterday or the day before.
I don't know if it was Forbes or Bloomberg.
But 60%, 60, 6-0% of Americans are putting their groceries on credit cards.
That is chilling because there is no stimulus checks coming in from COVID.
You know, a lot of people who were, you know, kind of confined to their homes, they weren't allowed to work.
They were deemed unofficial, you know, unessential, I should say.
And so what did they do with those stimulation checks?
They pumped them into a Web3 ecosystem to try to, you know, make some ends meet, right?
But when you have crypto that goes down in value and you have all of these extending, you know, extenuating circumstances, you have people that are just tapped.
And, you know, that also plays into what you said, Daniel, with morale.
When people are just tapped and stretched thin and they just don't have it, you know, how many people in our ecosystem, in the listening audience today, I can tell you in our general group of friends, how many people are dealing with food scarcity issues.
And that's not just, you know, overseas and third world countries.
These are people from America that cannot buy groceries.
So when you think about those things and you think about their only frantic kind of Band-Aid is to flood the market with JPEGs made by, you know, AI, then, you know, we have an issue.
But there are lots of things.
And I will tell you this, just as fear is contagious, so is courage.
You know, the picture that I put down below is a smiling bull.
You know, when we have these friction points and these red flags, these are opportunities.
That's where money is made in arbitrage moments.
And if you are prepared for those moments, then you can jump on them.
You know, if you have a little padding somewhere, if you are kind of socking some away, you're preparing yourself for that opportunity when it presents itself.
That's the important little bit is you can't time markets, but you can definitely prepare and be, you know, have our soil.
Like we said in the beginning, when we have our ox plow those fields, they're ready to receive.
They're ready to receive that seed.
They're ready to grow.
And they're ready to take advantage of a favorable climate when it comes, if that makes sense.
And sorry, Monkey, to just chip in before you because I saw you have your hand up.
But Sarah, you mentioned something important, right?
And that was, you know, what do you do with the 50 bucks?
Do you go and, you know, in food scarcity is there, you know, do you go and put it in the mattress or, you know, buy crypto with it?
Because it brings an interesting dilemma, right?
Especially when we're in a bear market like this.
It's quite scary.
And it's not even the bear market.
It's the vulnerabilities that come at play with this space as well.
Because you are constantly told that fiat is very bad because, you know, it can just be printed endlessly, you know.
And also, no one wants to just keep that because it's going to lose its value over time.
Now, we can't trust banks.
And I'm not saying that, you know, quote unquote, whoever is listening, you can trust your banks.
You know, I don't want to keep kicked off X for saying something bad.
But anyway, you know what I mean.
And there's been a lot of things that's happening.
So, people are sitting with a real big dilemma.
What do you do with, you know, your fiat?
What do you do with that, you know, 50 bucks?
Do you go and trust it into crypto, hoping that it's not going to go down?
You know, and it's scary because you click on the wrong link.
You might lose it all.
So, people have a really big dilemma at this stage.
I do have to say that something that I see a lot of people do, and this is really my hopes for individuals in this space right now.
And I've fallen victim to this time and time and time again.
And I guess it's just because it's built into our nature as human beings, right?
As bull runs come along and as people want to invest their money into these tokens, right, we tend to do that at the very top.
It always seems like it's the very top that we do this at.
And I think it has heavily to do with our psychology, you know, how it works.
And when we see everything going all green, you know, we're afraid of missing out.
This FOMO word that we have, right, fear of missing out.
And then what we end up doing is we purchase something in the hopes that it's going to go up more, but then it's at the very, very top.
So what we are left with is to endure a bear market, right?
And for those individuals who actually just leaves everything alone until the next bull market is here, they usually are fine.
But again, as people, we cannot watch that, right?
As everything goes down, we get scared again.
So you end up, like, letting go of those assets, you know, and essentially losing out instead of just upholding it or at least just not do anything, you know, until the next bull run comes along.
And I have to add this, right?
We're discussing what causes bull runs, but there's never a bull run that's promised, right?
For the longest time, these cycles have happened, but I also have to add to this and just say, just know that nothing is guaranteed in these cycles because all of a sudden, you know, something can go wrong.
We know what the world is like.
Sorry, monkey.
I jumped in there, but I just thought it's important to know that we have this dilemma, you know, where do you put your funds if you cannot trust fiat holding its value?
If you are a bit scared of putting it in the banks because it's not a good growth measure for your funds and also when crypto is so volatile, but also, you know, you can lose it at any second by clicking on the wrong link.
What do you do?
But anyway, monkey, your turn.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I sort of echo all of what you guys just said then because we've got to remember really that, you know, it is like a sort of virgin stock market here.
And, you know, what you're putting your fiat currency in is essentially some form of technology or some form of project that's going to do something, you know, that the idea that you can put your money into Dogecoin or the next Dogecoin and be a super success is pretty slim.
You know, that doesn't happen very, very often.
And the more that time goes by, the more mature that this sort of crypto market is going to become and the more stable it will become eventually.
Like Daniel just said then, you know, it's too volatile really at the minute for it to be considered a safe investment for pretty much anybody.
And I think talking about whether bull runs are going to happen as well, when you've got sort of the big actors in, say, the sort of fiat world, like I think his name is Michael.
Is it Michael Burry, the guy who's basically shorted the stock market and predicting that, you know, he's basically bet 1.2, 1.6 billion or something on the stock market crashing before the end of this year.
Anyway, that's not going to do any favours to the crypto world either.
You've got to be aware of that.
And I think, you know, when you see headline news like that, you don't have to really be into stock markets and trading stocks or trading crypto to realise that financially things are a bit of a mess right now.
And I think if you're coming into this space brand new, you're, you know, seeing the headlines that this could happen, this could happen, this could happen.
It's quite a dangerous place to come in.
And like you said, Daniel, when people do usually come in, it's when it's when people are saying, well, this has just happened and this has just happened.
And people jump on the top of that, which is the wrong time to do it as well.
So, you know, you've got to probably the most important parts of these cycles, whether it's with crypto or just sort of fear trading, is this downtime now, this time now where you can relax a little bit and look at all the things that are going on and focus on a few things rather than just saying, well, this thing's done 1,000x, it's bound to do another 1,000x.
So that's probably not going to be the case.
But, yeah, I think when you've got big guys like this, Michael Burry, shorting the stock market with all that money, then, you know, people are going to take note.
And I think that's going to delay any particular bull run in crypto anyway, really.
I think most of the time we talk about bull runs coming from the Bitcoin halvening when we talk about the crypto markets, which is I think around about March next year, March time.
And then it's usually around about six months after that, six months to a year after that, we start to see this sort of parabolic climb.
You know, that's the usual case.
But I don't know if that's going to be the case all the time.
And I think that's what you were saying, Daniel, that nothing's guaranteed in this place.
And it's not guaranteed out in the real world either.
So, but, yeah, go on, Sarah.
Yeah, you know, Michael Burry is known for the great short.
You know, he is a guy who studies patterns, right?
We forget.
And when we look at history, like the Depression in general, where did the Kennedys make all of their money?
Joseph Kennedy, the patriarch, actually bet against the market.
And so he made all of his money on that pushing down on the market, right?
So you have this kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.
When you have someone that says, I'm banking on the market tanking, right?
All of a sudden, everybody else has that contagion, right?
And you get that power that grows across everybody's ecosystem.
You know, there's two things to forget or to remember, you know, that when you have that kind of money, you influence the markets in a way.
We're the playthings of the billionaires, right?
And Jonathan Talpin has an excellent book out that talks about these billionaires and what they're doing in this ecosystem and how we really are the pawns, right?
But what's fascinating about those kinds of opportunities, right, when you have this downward pressure and this resistance, think of a color wheel.
A lot of folks in the audience right now are artists.
You know, when you think of opposites on a color wheel, you have the red and the green.
You need them to contrast in order for both of them to pop, right?
The minute you start mixing them is when you get mud and things start to, you know, just kind of stick.
They become, they fly into neutral, right?
So when you think about your assets in those color groups, because sometimes, you know, creatives don't like to think about money, which is kind of bizarre, you know, in a way because their whole life, you know, you're an independent, right?
You have to kind of think about these pockets.
And so if you have the money that you're investing and you're playing in this ecosystem, you actually have to remember to pay yourself, right?
And paying yourself also means being able to invest when the market, you know, presents itself, right?
If you are spending and deficit spending the entire way, you are never going to be able to dig yourself out of that ditch.
You know, I'm not saying that debt is bad because good debt can be interesting and it can be a very useful tool.
However, if you are paying so much more in interest payments than you can afford and it is making it so that you can't pay yourself 10%, you have a problem.
So you have to kind of make sure to mitigate all of those things first.
So pay down your debt, that's one of the things that prepares that soil in order to make sure that you are at the ready so that when things go red, that's a buying opportunity for you.
When things go red, that's a green light for you to purchase those things at a discount because you already can't afford them when they're up at the top, right?
So when you think about those ecosystems and the relationships between the things and the pockets of little envelopes of money, for those of you that practice a Dave Ramsey kind of way, you know, you're kind of thinking about how you're going to reinvest those things.
Now, I will also say we don't know who's going to win the crypto race, which currency, which chain is going to win.
And you don't want to invest heavily in one or the other because at that point, you are exposing yourself to the risk that comes with all non-fungible tokens, right?
Liquidity and market manipulation.
Who owns all that Bitcoin?
Who owns the lion's share of Ethereum?
Who, or Ether, I should say, who owns all of these things, right?
When you start putting the dots together and you realize people like Vanguard or BlackRock are just sucking in the Bitcoin, you're thinking to yourself, well, wow, if they are taking advantage of this downward pressure, right, and using it as a buying opportunity, where are you, the pawn, going to end up?
So, you know, making sure that you're getting rid of any liabilities that are putting you at risk, which would include your debt, and then setting aside.
So, if you're dabbling in JPEGs, right, if you're selling JPEGs, I would strongly advise selling JPEGs on all of the chains because if the conduits, if the ramps get closed, which they will, right,
your JPEGs, dabbling in each of the currencies are going to help pave the way and make sure that those conduits stay.
So, if you are dabbling in Chia, which is really, really important, and you've got JPEGs in Chia, you're also accumulating wealth there.
If you've got some Bitcoin, or if you've got some ETH, or if you've got Solana, or you've got Matic, you know, all of those different conduits are really important because you don't know who's going to win.
But there are ways for you to generate income and generate wealth in really interesting use cases in really awesome ways, right?
You have all of these tools and this technology at your fingertips.
There's no excuse to not take advantage of them, right?
And, you know, it is one of those things that you have to marinate on and think about how you're going to have that 10 streams of income, you know, because if one gets shut down, how are you going to feed your family, you know?
I would say, sorry.
Sorry, Monkey, you go.
I was going to say, Sarah, I think one of the phenomenons that's happening with the crypto world when it comes to all these different chains and all these different currencies is that everyday people now have the forum to tell you what's good and what's not good.
You know, in the everyday world, the stock market, if somebody says that this is good and it doesn't look very good and it's probably not very good, but if somebody says Amazon's good, it's a good bet or Apple's probably a good bet, you know, you know it.
But here you've got this forum where you've got sort of this sort of Twitter or X as it is now and these spaces where people can stand up here and be pretty convincing that, you know, the next big token is going to be X, Y or Z.
And that's part of the, not a problem as such, but it's an issue that we haven't really seen before, I don't think.
And so you've got to, you've got to start yourself off really when you're, when you're coming into this space by finding out the people who you trust to listen to.
And I'd say.
Well, Monkey, we have faced this before.
Prior to, you know, like when the stock market dumped in the 1920s, one of the things that came forward was the fact that we had a bunch of snake oil salesmen selling stock certificates to useless companies or companies that didn't exist.
Because it was so much easier to jump on a train and go to a city that you're not known and you have these stock certificates.
That's no different than hiding behind a PFP and selling a room full of people on shit coin, pardon my French.
But, you know, it's the same, same.
You have to surround yourself with folks that understand the dynamics of the market, but also are going to help be the iron that sharpens iron.
Learn, read those white papers, understand the underlying technology.
And if you don't understand it, then you shouldn't be investing in it.
It's kind of like Warren Buffett.
If you don't understand it, I'm not, you know, I'm going to put my money there.
It's the same, same.
But, yeah, we have seen this before.
You know, history doesn't repeat itself, but people certainly do.
And wherever there's unregulated kind of ecosystems, wild west, you have natural born scammers that will come in.
And all we can do is pray that karma is quick with those folks, you know.
Yeah, let's hope.
Absolutely.
Sorry, Mike.
I just, you guys are saying so much more, so many people, touch on a few, it just goes fast, so, you know, by so fast.
I just want to add as well, if you're hopping in these spaces, right, we're not giving any financial advice.
It just so happens to be that this topic is very financially driven, right?
But it's important for us to understand, Sarah also mentioned about, you know, debt, you know, look at the debt.
You know, don't overexpose yourself in a crypto market if you can't pay your debt, right?
Because the thing is, you get good and bad debt.
If you look at Robert Kiyosaki, you'll exactly know how to use debt for your advantage.
He loves debt.
But apart from that, you know, whenever you do need to, like, tokens and so on, if you find yourself looking at your phone every 10 minutes because you are so scared that this price is going to move,
you will overexpose yourself in that asset, you know, to say the least.
And it's probably best if you get out of the way fast and not overexpose yourself because that is stressful, right?
A lot of people can handle the stress, but most of us can't, right?
Monkey mentioned, actually, Michael Burry, who is that the person, Monkey, who actually bet against the whole stock market right now.
And, you know, that's a very valid point.
There's such a big bet against the market.
People take notice, you know, and people are powerful.
And trust me, there is this big herd mentality that happens all the time.
You see it in the crypto space because it's such a small space.
You can actually see some of the influence of individuals that place in this actual very space.
You know, take a look at if Elon Musk just says something positive about some crypto that crypto skyrockets.
But people notice and people listen.
Yeah, I mean, if you take a look at an example of Coca-Cola who, you know, Coca-Cola dropped almost $5 billion in shares or in market value after Cristiano Ronaldo.
He made a simple gesture on TV as he was moving away the Coca-Cola bottles and said he only drinks water.
You know, people took notice to that.
And that's crazy to think about.
But if you think about that, if you understand these things, then you can also understand when, you know, big bets like that are being made, pay attention, look at the markets, and don't overexpose yourself.
I just wanted to add that as well because there's so many good things that you guys are discussing right now.
But I want to touch now on the topic, actually, of what is a bull run.
Sarah, can you or Monkey, can either one of you tell me what is a bull run?
And I really want to know your definitions before we get into how is one caused.
I can tell you right now if you ask folks that are involved with the stock market, they've said that we've had 15 months of consecutive bull run.
You know, it is one of those things that you have to look at through traditional definitions and then the definition of what Web3 assumes a bull run is.
Because just like we have our own definitions and vernacular, wag me, for instance, we're all going to make it.
Those are unique to this digital overlay.
And when you think about how many people have entered into this space, and I say crypto Twitter, right?
Crypto Twitter is really, I would say, from 2000 to 2000 or 2020, I should say, to 2023.
You know, prior to 2020, crypto Twitter did not have the kind of presence, right?
So the kinds of idea of what a bear market and a bull market, the way that they are defined is defined through the prism of did my Yuga assets go up or did my, you know, shit coin rocket, you know, whatever.
You know, those are the kinds of things that it's almost a sub layer.
I'd say stock market for a lot of people is legalized gambling with market manipulation, you know, but it's the same for crypto Twitter.
You know, you have new tools.
I mean, when you first came into this space, we didn't have the kind of indexing tools that could, you know, figure out the nuances right off the bat, right?
And the people who had those kinds of computers and systems or just, let's say, network of people that were influencers, they could manipulate the market in a way that the everyday person was caught holding the bag of that Ponzi scheme, right?
So, you know, my definition of a bull market is probably, I'd say, three consecutive quarters of positive, right?
But that's a different kind of way of thinking because we're heading into the third quarter, which is statistically, you got your triple which.
And so, you know, you have to pay attention to those things.
You have Huawei, for instance, they just got a new technology that the Americans did not like.
It circumnavigated our boycotts.
So now they're trying to, you know, buckle down on that.
And so when you have 5G or 6G technologies in these phones, you know, you have a lot of different things playing in these factors.
You look at Apple.
Apple is slowing down.
You know, the traditional tech sectors that have been buoying the market have been hemorrhaging their employees.
So you look at that from a macro big, you know, 30,000 feet level.
And there are certain aspects of the market.
You know, I always, when I was a broker and analyst, you know, I couldn't always trust the data on the computers.
Because, you know, there was the beginnings, you know, this is in 2000, so I don't have my licenses anymore.
And we were just now getting the tools, the computers that could have these kind of micro movements that you could take advantage of.
But if you didn't understand what you were investing in, the biggest indicator is going to the store.
However, look at what $100 can buy you at a store.
Look at what the average mom or stay-at-home dad is buying in their grocery carts.
When you look at that and you see it with your own eyes, trust that.
Because if the cost of goods, whether it's paper products like toilet paper or, you know, toilet tissue or Kleenex or just the price per pound for meat for any of your proteins.
When you look at those grain prices, you know, we have, you know, the Ukraine is at war.
That's the breadbasket of Europe, right?
You look at where the energy costs are.
Those are the things that people are going to pay attention to.
And that has a chilling effect over everything else, right?
So, I don't know.
If I was to say a bull market, what does it look like?
It looks like liquidity.
It looks like the freeing of assets.
It is one of those things.
So, I mean, have I seen it yet?
No, I haven't.
And I don't think that we're going to see it for a while.
That's not being pessimistic.
It's just looking at the indicators and saying, you know what?
There are a lot of factors here that we have to think about.
Does it mean that you're going to, you know, shrivel up and die on the vine?
And that the bear is going to eat you alive?
It means that you have to look at it from a different perspective and say, where are those opportunities?
Where are those friction points that I can arbitrage?
You know, I look at Chia, you know, and I'm not tooting my own horn.
I do have one little miner, but I look at that and I think to myself, that peer-to-peer factor and that clawback factor, they offer security and they offer safety that the other chains don't have, right?
So if you look at that, you say to yourself, I have my 50 bucks.
Where am I going to put it that I think has the regulations in place, that it feels like it's a little bit more solid?
You know, those are the kinds of things that you think about.
Am I not going to invest in ETH or anything else?
Heck no, because there are a lot of people that I want to invest in.
And I do believe that you invest in people, your value does not go down.
So there it is.
I would echo that.
I would say, you know, I'm certainly not a financial expert and I don't know half as much, well, probably a tenth as much as Sarah does about sort of the financial markets and things like that.
But I would say sort of the definition of a bear market is almost, you could almost call it hindsight, because usually you don't know it's happening until it's sort of almost over, if that makes a lot of sense.
Certainly, certainly what I've seen and been through in the past is you don't realize it's happening until it sort of really goes.
And, you know, the time when you should probably invest, and I'm certainly not advocating for this, but is when you start seeing that steady climb.
And like Sarah said, those sort of three quarters where things are starting to shift upwards, you know, that's probably a good time to, if you've got some spare money or some spare crypto, you know, to move it into something that you want, you think that might do well.
But, yeah, I would define it as probably hindsight in general, because I've never been able to predict anything like that at all.
So, yeah, hindsight would be my word.
You two have beautiful analogies and explanations of a bull run.
I would have said it's when I see these green GIFs all around me that pop up and these green characters on them sitting on arrows going upwards into the sky.
That's usually when I know this is a bull run, right?
Everyone is hyped up, they post GIFs the whole time, it's going good, everyone's happy, everyone's, you know, cheerful in the space.
But that is truly what it is, Sarah and Monkizu.
You guys nailed it on the head.
You know, and also towards your point, Monkizu, what I think is, and this is obviously no financial advice, I can just speak for what I do, right?
You know, I analyze the tech technologies.
And when I feel like a technology is strong enough, you know, and you do have a bit of spare money around and you want to invest in something, invest in that while the markets are like this, where it's down, where people are getting out, you know.
And that's really when you get everything at bargain prices, to say the least.
I invest heavily in Ethereum.
Main reason is because I develop on Ethereum.
But like you guys said, she has an amazing technology as well.
So, you know, it's all about just where you want to invest your energy and your time because, you know, my biggest fear is that I won't have any need to, you know, do some programming on Ether.
Maybe it gets too expensive one day.
So, I'm trying to, every chance I get, get a few little bits and pieces here and there, you know, and that way, even in this bear market, you know, you get to save up for if everything goes wild, you know, you get to maybe sell a few and then wait for it to all go down again before you can accumulate a little bit more.
But that's if you have a vision for the technology, right?
If you're just speculating and you want to get in and out quickly because you just feel like this is the right one, if you don't understand the technology well enough, just as an example, you know, for me personally, how I see Ethereum is that it's been around, it's proven, it has the most developers in the space.
The likelihood of it going down is very slim, right?
And that's how I personally see it when I, you know, acquire Ether versus something like this late Pepe token, right?
I mean, Pepe is great.
It's a cool meme, but, you know, I have to ask myself, is that what I really want to put my hard-earned money into is this meme?
And the answer to me personally is no.
I'm not going to bet everything on this meme.
Some people, you know, as they say, they have the kahunkas and they do it and they go all out.
But that's pure gambling, in my opinion.
So, but yeah, that is good analogies of what bullruns tend to be.
Sarah is absolutely correct.
Very technical analysis, Sarah.
We can definitely see that you had your fair share of being a stockbroker in your past because, you know, I wouldn't have even thought about that.
But when you gave the analogy about take $100 and see what you can buy, that is so important.
The other day I saw a video, I was on TikTok, and this guy had this comparison.
And he actually compared the Great Depression and the prices that was around back then to now.
And the comparisons were quite scary and frightening, to say the least.
Because, for example, cars back then cost a certain amount for a car.
And today it's actually four times as much if you do that conversion.
So, essentially he was kind of hinting at we are in a very silent depression, right?
There's this thing and no one sees it because it's just creeping up on us, you know.
And everyday life is just getting so expensive, right?
But I'm pretty sure that in every household today, people are complaining about grocery costs.
And they're like, can you believe what I paid for grocery costs, you know?
And there's this little conversation going back and forth.
It certainly happens in our household because I've firsthand witnessed how our grocery bill just gets getting more heavy and heavy and heavy and bigger, right?
So, we don't eat more.
Well, at least I hope so.
We don't eat more at all.
But yet everything gets more pricey.
And I think, you know, if you see these signs, then it's time to start thinking about not only when is the next bull run, but like Sarah said, where are you going to put that 50 bucks?
Where are you going to put it for a rainy day?
Make sure that you, you know, have provisions in place.
And we can talk about that.
I mean, we can't give advice where you can invest your funds.
But, you know, for me personally, always it's been a safe thing to put any minerals, actual things like gold.
You know, I don't think unless someone invents, what is it?
Is it the philosopher's stone?
What stone is it that can make anything into gold?
I remember there was some kind of alchemy.
But unless someone becomes an alchemist, I think gold will keep its value.
So, Sarah, yes.
Yeah, I posted up top.
I couldn't find the exact article.
So, I posted zero hedge.
But, you know, there's two questions.
This is from an American perspective.
So, forgive me because I know that we have an international audience.
But how much does it take to be wealthy, right?
How much money is generational wealth to a Web 2 or Web 3 person, right?
How much does it feel to be wealthy?
There's a difference there.
Is how much money do you have in the bank to be considered wealthy?
Versus how much do you have to have to feel like you're not sacrificing a ton, right?
And right now, when you're squeezed, everybody feels like I am not living my life to the fullest, right?
So, in this moment is when we can take the opportunity to change our mindset.
What is it that we actually really need?
What is it really to be, you know, what's really important to us?
And I will tell you, there are certain things, wheat, rice, those grains can last 25 years if you put them in a jar with a little packet that takes away, you know, the moisture and the air, right?
There are ways that you can purchase things in bulk and then split them up.
And you can feel rich.
When I was a child, we didn't have two nickels to rub together.
We were very poor.
I had no idea how poor we were because my mom made life so joyous and happy.
And our garden provided for us.
And we would make things to sell at the local craft show so that we could have Christmas.
You know, my parents were too proud to ask for help from my grandparents or anything else.
And so, you know, you learn how to live well.
It does not necessarily mean wealthy, right?
There's a difference between poor and broke.
Broke can be fixed.
But a poverty of soul, one that does not find joy, that's a little bit harder to fix.
So I posted that article for you to put things into perspective.
And also visualizing the last or the 25 best stocks since the last big depression in 1926.
The big crash was in the 29.
But, you know, it puts things into perspective.
Look at what these performing things did well, right?
What things did well.
So you look at oil.
You look at your necessities.
You have pharma in there.
You have, you know, companies that have tech, right?
What you're investing in now is exactly what Monkey Zoo had mentioned before.
It is that the underlying tech of the blockchain, if you want to invest in the blockchain, you have to invest in those tokens.
There's no company that owns, you know, Chia.
It's the people, right?
So you kind of have to think about that in a different perspective, that you are buying into an ecosystem.
And I think that that's one of the things that you should marinate on, right?
And the last thing that I posted was about Huawei anyway, because I think it's important, too, how people get online.
You know, everything that we're talking about right now hinges on our ability to connect with one another via the Internet, whether it's Starlink or whatever your service provider is, but your underlying tech.
I'm talking to you on an iPhone, right?
What happens if I don't have that tool?
How will I interact with the investments that I have?
If I carry around my little ledger or my treasure and I have no way to plug it in, how do I access my funds?
How do I access my wealth?
It's not the same traditional way.
So, you know, when you're thinking about investing and you're thinking about how you're going to spend that $100, it may be that some of that money has to be in terms of how do I get my on-ramp onto these things, right?
So, for me, I don't know if this will help anybody, but when I purchased Quigley, for those that don't know, Quigley is my chia miner named after Fannie Quigley, who was in the gold rush.
She never made any money mining for gold.
She made it feeding other people, right?
The only reason why I bought that and invested in it was because there are no on-ramps or at the time for me to purchase chia because Silicon Valley Bank had closed and then the way to fund it was an institutional buy, which is the barrier to entry is too tall.
So, maybe those are the kinds of things that you should be thinking about in preparation for a bull run is, you know, you are the bull.
When you see red, you should be running.
That is the definition, right?
So, you have to prepare yourself to be able to take advantage of those red candles and, you know, charge it when you have the opportunity.
So, making sure that your on-ramps are all there.
Making sure that your technology, your laptops, your computers, your cell phones or whatever.
Or, let's say you're making money doing spaces or, you know, your content that you're creating here on X.
Make sure your microphones, you know.
Those are the kinds of things you have to think about.
And it's not the kind of stuff that we used to think about.
You know, if you're going to sell JPEGs, you better make sure that your graphics are lovely.
You know, and you have the ability to generate those 10,000 images.
You know, those are the kinds of things that you have to think about.
And you also have to think about who are the people, those key resources in your ecosystem that are going to help you generate those JPEGs or make sure that people hear about them to buy them, you know.
So, those are the kinds of things that I would think about in preparation for the next bull.
So, Sarah, talking about that, just now go and just save the art engine somewhere.
Download it locally, you know.
Sarah just scared us all, like all technology is going to go away.
We're just one EMP pulse, right?
A piece.
One EMP pulse and it's all gone.
And, you know, you joke like that, maybe Sarah, with the EMP pulse.
But, yeah, that's kind of a scary thing, right?
What happens if there is this big EMP pulse?
You invest in a blackout bag.
That's what you invest in.
You put your ledger and your treasure in a blackout bag or a Faraday cage and you'll be fine.
So, there you heard it, everyone.
Go and get a blackout bag.
That's going to save you from the EMP pulses.
But, yeah, that is so true.
So, how do you make sure that you can on-ramp, off-ramp?
Because, you know what?
That is very important.
I think MetaMask just now recently has released that you can actually on-ramp, off-ramp directly from them as well.
So, it is amazing to see all these tools progress, right, and go towards, you know, more adoption.
And I think, you know, the previous, I would say, the previous wave of people entering the space still find it very hard.
And I was surprised at the amount of people that was in the space.
And the reason is, is because it's not that easy to still get into crypto.
It is really not.
You need to know Binance.
You need to know Coinbase.
You need to know all these things.
And then, apart from that, you need to move that onto these different platforms and networks.
And just explaining to someone that your Ether balance can look different on a different network, that is crazy, right?
It's saying that whatever dollar amounts in your bank account on a different bank, it's going to be a different amount.
But yet, it's the same token.
You know, it can get confusing for a lot of people.
So, I think with these tiny adoptions, it's also good.
But, Sarah, you are correct.
We need to think about these things, right?
One thing that I also wanted to mention is you mentioned about the technology.
And, you know, something I just want to also say to people today is if you believe in, let's say, Bitcoin or you believe in Ripple, you believe in Ethereum,
and you truly are like one of these maxis and you want to invest in these tokens, go ahead and do that.
But be very cautious of investing in the sub-tokens that come with these ecosystems.
And I'm just saying this because I see a lot of people, for instance, Shiba Inu is a great token.
You know, it's a big community now.
But the chances of Shiba Inu going crazy in this next bull run could happen.
I'm not saying it can't.
But you just have to look at the metrics involved as well.
The thing is where people get really badly burnt in this space is they say they believe in blockchain, but most of their funds are invested in these little tokens that's created on the actual technology that they believe in.
And it gives them like this kind of false sense of security, you know, saying like, you know, I'm good.
I believe in blockchain.
I've invested in blockchain, so I'm good.
Right.
And that's not the case, because as we've seen, there's many, many people that scam, there's many rug pulls, there's many tokens that's maybe not rug pulls, but they just die down.
And the thing is, is you will, if Ethereum itself, for example, dies down, then, you know, there's a big, serious technical problem.
And also, you know, there's a lot of faith that's been lost through the network itself.
And in turn, all the other tokens will anyway go down then.
But what I just wanted to say is if you believe in the technology, I always like to think of it, invest in the main technology.
Because as it gets adopted, you know, if your goal is to, you know, make some sort of wealth for your family in the future, it's good to then invest in that instead of wagering or betting on something small that's going to kick off.
I'm not saying don't go and put that 50 bucks and be the next Shiba Inu millionaire, right?
Each to their own.
But I'm just saying, you know, there's a very slim chance that that's going to be you.
And the reason why I'm saying that is because a lot of people in these bull runs, they think to themselves, if I just kept those tokens, right?
And I'm going to make this analogy because I know a lot of people fall victim to this and it's very tough to realize.
But let's say you buy a few tokens of Shiba when I was very young and it grew.
OK, the likelihood of you actually becoming that mega millionaire or whatever you want to want to reach with that is very slim because if you don't have that patience, if you don't have that perseverance and really, really, really the gohunkas of steel.
Because trust me, when you're $50 becomes $1,000, becomes $20,000, the likelihood of you just selling it is very good.
OK, there's a very few amount of people who's going to stick it through all the way to the top to a million.
And maybe there is, right?
But a lot of people will say this is enough because also when you don't know when enough is enough, greed comes in and then people tend to lose it all as well.
So it's a very fine line.
And usually you'll find that those people that reach these levels forgot about the token.
It's most cases because they're not there with their eyes on this chart getting scared every now and then.
You know, they forget about it.
And one day they come there and you hear about them in the news.
But I just wanted to put them out there as well because I think as humans, you know, it's just natural to feel scared, to feel anxious when things go up, things go down as well.
So I think we have a good definition of a bull run.
I think we can also go into a bit about what causes a bull run, right?
We all want to know that.
So we're going to get to Monke here just now.
But what causes a bull run?
What's the catalyst of a bull run?
And I think, Sarah, you have such a beautiful way of explaining, you know, these things in finance.
Maybe you can touch on it as well.
But Monke, let's go to you.
What do you have to add?
I think it was to the previous point.
Yeah, yeah.
Just to just to the sort of previous point, the, you know, big, big companies and big tech and big investors aren't investing in Shiba Inu or Dogecoin.
You know, that's just not on their cards.
That's just not in their remit.
You know, they're investing in these core technologies.
And I spoke with on the Coffee with Captain sort of show this week about they were talking about gaming, the sort of gaming world and Web3, et cetera.
And, you know, I speak with Richard Sowell, who works, who's the sort of chief metaverse officer at the Chia Blockchain quite regularly.
And he's got a massive sort of knowledge behind this, you know, he's an executive at Riot Games and, you know, big companies.
And he sits in these offices with these executives.
And, you know, I hear firsthand or secondhand, should I say, that the issues they have, they want to be involved with Web3.
And there's certain things that hold them back.
And it's the technology side of it.
It really is the technology.
It's the fact that people can have their assets stolen by clicking a link.
You've really got to look at today that people's had their punk stolen because Vitalik's, you know, Twitter was hacked.
You know, they don't like solidity programming language.
There's certain aspects that the big guns, the big guys just don't like.
And they're not going to risk their investments in these things.
And I think, you know, when it comes back to us looking at it from sort of these tiny views, we should be looking at what the big guns are doing.
And, you know, most of the big guns now would be buying Bitcoin and probably Ethereum.
And that's probably all they're going to be looking at because that's all they're aware of.
But from our point of view down below, down in the cheap seats, we've got to be looking at the we've got to work harder.
We've got to look at what the technology is doing and what it can do and what it could do to find those little gems that you're talking about.
And like you say, the Shiba Inu stuff, a lot of that isn't going to happen because of technology or it's a great thing.
It's a great technology.
That's because of a hype cycle.
And, you know, that sort of leads on to, you know, what causes a bull run like you just sort of mentioned there.
And I think I said earlier that, you know, what causes that is certainly in the crypto world in the past, it's been the Bitcoin halvening where essentially, you know, the rewards to the miners are halved, you know, every few years.
So so therefore, the the asset becomes more scarce to get hold of.
Therefore, you know, that the price should go up.
And that's sort of generally what causes these bull runs to happen in crypto.
But I'll pass it over to Sarah, who I'm sure will elaborate on maybe the the fiat side as well.
Well, why don't you let Easton go first, because his hands up and then I've been marinating on it.
Go ahead, Easton.
What up, guys?
Hope you're doing well today.
I I I I love this conversation because I think and me and Paolo actually talk about this a lot.
But the I I think this idea that the bull run is going to come back is is very it's a very interesting topic because I always ask myself, why why would the bull market come back if people aren't going to be using the technology?
And I think the only way that that it comes back is if companies come and build on the blockchain and they use the blockchain for their businesses and they actually, you know, are using it in real life to help their business improve, save money and enhance it and improve customer experience, improve back end.
And I think that's the only way that the tech will be here and we'll see a a another bull run, in my opinion, because I don't think we need a for a bull run to happen.
We need liquidity.
And I think why are people going to come to the space if there's nothing to build on?
And Monkey, from what you were saying about like like about businesses using the technology and we need to get them to use the tech, I actually did a deep dive yesterday and I'm going to be putting on a thread about IBM.
And IBM has their own blockchain and I was doing some research into the use cases of it and they actually have two.
So their blockchain is already being used by a by 12 banks.
It's a joint venture between 12 banks called WeTrade and they use it for international finance.
So that's one use case that's already being used.
And another is it's being used.
They partner with a company called Raw Seafood Incorporated.
They partner back in 2020 and they're using it for their supply chain to show their customers everything about the food from the captain's boat to the shopper.
And they have a platform that displays all this information, what's happening with the food and it protects against fraud.
There's billions of dollars in fraud just in the food industry and it actually increased Raw Seafood's revenue year over year by 30% for their scallops.
So it's very interesting when we talk about, you know, like businesses using the tech because when I found out that IBM had a blockchain and businesses were already using the tech and have been for years and they don't have a cryptocurrency.
I was really shocked and I really started to ask myself, well, if businesses can just go use IBM's blockchain, not have a fear of being hacked, you know, like and like not have to deal with the crypto, not having to worry about if it's a security.
I always ask myself, well, why would businesses come and build here versus going and building in one of the one of the biggest tech companies that's been around for over 100 years?
So that's my two cents. That's kind of my thoughts that I kind of play around in my head a little bit from time to time being in this space.
You know, Easton, you brought up a really good point, actually.
You know, I think personally, you know, we have to look at companies not just like IBM, but Lufthansa, Amazon, Google now accepting the fact that they're going to allow NFTs and crypto being in the narrative, right?
Traditionally, if I was to say, OK, what's going to cause the next bull run?
Let's just say contagious exuberance.
You know, if you have a 20 percent rise in prices, that's considered a bull run with a stock, right?
I would say maybe a 20 percent rise in participation in the ecosystem itself.
You know, when we have a strengthened economy and people have more disposable income, when liquidity becomes easier, so credit is released a little bit, our unemployment rate goes down because we're forgetting how many people in the tech industry have been displaced.
They're not talking about those numbers, but, you know, you have Facebook meta, you have Google, you have Amazon, you have a lot of these tech companies, even X, formerly known as Twitter itself, just paring down the extras because they are using the mechanical advantage of the large learning models, right?
When those employment rates go up, when people are now gainfully employed, now I do think that that's going to have a different definition in the near future because we're going to have more 1099s as opposed to W-2s.
And that means more independent consultant type work as opposed to traditionally hired in corporations, et cetera.
But then you'd also have higher corporate demands or profits, I should say, corporate profits.
I would equate that with some of these projects.
If you had a 20 percent raise in, let's say, any of the Yuga assets or Izuki or Doodles, what would that look like?
And I think from the cheap seats, because I'm not a degen, most of you know that I've never sold an NFT, but from the cheap seats, when you watch that contagious exuberance, I think of like when I look at Comfort's PFP down below with a kid called Beast, that's an interesting project.
I don't own any, but it's a contagious exuberance.
You walk into a room and there's no question that all of these folks believe that their PFPs are going to rise.
If you have an artifacts and you just received your light up shoes in the mail, that is something that makes you feel good about your purchase and feel some kind of stability that it will grow if you can hold on to something tangible.
I know for me personally, in Sketchy Labs, the minute that I got the novella in my hand or the prototype to, you know, Iris's books or the games and things like that, those tangible assets, you start to think, wow, I can actually make something of this asset.
And I also think with that optimism and that confidence, the psychology that goes with it, that bubbling and brewing, contagious, you know, awesome, there's something else that I think us as a community are going to have to kind of face.
It's the white elephant in the room, which is the term NFT.
You know, a non-fungible token is now seen as a toxic asset.
It's seen synonymous with scamming, with Ponzi's, with drama, with unkind words, with just this nonsense that goes on in some of the spaces.
But for that, we have to erase that term because until the consumer, you know, whether you're buying your Starbucks, because most people don't realize that that Odyssey program, those are all NFTs, right?
And it's not that they're hiding the fact that they're a non-fungible token, that they are on that blockchain.
It's just a course of business that your loyalty program will be on chain so that it's interoperable, that it goes with you, that you can trade those assets and you can, you know, monetize your participation in these loyalty programs, right?
The fact that your airline miles would never erase or roll over or go away.
Those are just as important as your RuneScape assets or World of Warcraft assets, right?
So I think that when people start to come into this space, that 20%, that's just kind of an arbitrary number.
But, you know, statistically, if you're looking at it, that would be for the stock market.
So let's just superimpose it on Web3 or our digital overlay.
If we have a 20% increase in participation, that kind of liquidity would mean the world to everything here.
It would mean so much to say, here's my Starbucks, you know, loyalty stamp.
I have it in my wallet sitting here next to my sketchy to Iris because Iris is obviously a coffee addict, which she is, right?
But 100%, there's no question about that, right?
But having them side by side, and it doesn't seem odd, you know, that you would have a piece of art or a piece of music next to your loyalty program in your digital wallet.
You know, we called it a hold all in the book because I think that's also going to go away.
You know, we're not going to call it a wallet.
We're not going to call it a ledger.
We're not going to call it cold storage.
It's going to hold everything.
And with that is going to come with a whole new set of words in the Urban Dictionary, I think.
And I guess that's what I would say, Daniel, to answer your question.
How do we make this come back?
It's that contagious exuberance.
It's looking at new use cases.
It's erasing the old vernacular and saying, look, you know, this is a serious space.
It has serious potential.
And the money that is invested here is stable.
When that happens, everything is going to skyrocket.
And it's going to be beautiful.
And I have a ton of optimism.
I have zero thoughts of a bear market.
It's not even in my course of speech.
I don't see this as a bear market.
And I know a lot of people do.
But that's because their participation in the ecosystem is different than my experience.
My experience is I've made incredible relationships, business connections, and I've built a lot of really interesting things that have nothing to do with flipping JPEGs, right?
Or even selling art.
I've never sold an NFT either, you know?
So I've never created one myself.
But, you know, last week we were talking about POAPs.
And I think that was one of the things that I found very interesting in going back and forth with El Tio.
Those are powerful.
And the minute that we can harness that, that contagious exuberance, you get giddy all over again because you understand the power that comes with being able to reward your listener base and building a community and fellowship and following that can come with you.
So that interoperability is the key to unlocks the whole entire ecosystem, I think.
So, Sarah, just to pitch in there.
Sorry, Ethan, Monki, your hands are up.
But, Ethan, I do agree with what you were saying, you know, on the businesses adopting this technology, right?
And I just wanted to put my two cents in there.
What causes a bull run, right?
Of course, I like to look at proven things.
I like to look at the previous bull run as an example.
And if we look at that, we could see that, you know, NFTs really kicked this off into the bull run, into this bull market.
That and DIOS and Decentral Finance, right, for the most part.
And before that, the bull run before that, that was all ICOs.
I wasn't that much a part of that era.
I touched it a little bit, but I got out and just left crypto all alone, right?
So when I came back and I saw NFTs was this wonderful thing where I can put up my art, you know, and try and do stuff.
Everyone knows my story.
It didn't end up like that, at least for the most part.
But I fell in love with education and building these tools.
But, you know, at the end of the day, for me, I think the next bull run, like you said, Sarah, the NFT name is tainted.
It's 100% tainted.
People don't like talking about NFTs.
If you mention NFTs now, right, to anyone, they're going to be like, you know, they're going to look at you very weird and strange.
Because, you know, first of all, there's the stigma that was created now about NFTs being bad.
And it's actually sad to think about like that, because essentially what this all created or how this started is from bad actors, right?
If there was none of these bad actors, like NFTs would have had the most amazing name behind them.
But unfortunately, we don't, you know, as well, that is how the world works.
But what happens next?
And my true belief is that what you've mentioned, Nufthansa bringing out the NFT royalty program.
While NFTs have a bad rap amongst DJs and normal people, not understanding, because this is what happens.
DJs don't like NFTs because maybe, you know, they've overexposed themselves.
Some DJs love it because they've overexposed themselves, you know, same reason, just a different flip of a coin, I guess.
But normal people don't want to touch NFTs because of all the stories they heard, and they just don't understand the technology, right?
And very little people out there, if you hear something is bad, you will not go and give it the time of day to go and research that.
So that's out of the, you know, that is out of the question.
But what businesses are doing is they are busy adopting this behind the scenes.
Nufthansa, Disney, Starbucks, you know, all these companies, name them.
And I think what will start to happen or what would really kick off the next big bull run is essentially it's not going to be people driven like ours.
It's going to be business driven.
I think a lot of businesses is going to implement this technology.
They're going to talk amongst themselves.
You know, there's going to be companies set up that helps businesses adopt these technologies.
More and more people are going to be using it.
And like you say, there's going to be one day and a light bulb is going to go off in someone's head and they're going to say, oh, my goodness, is this really an NFT that I'm using?
My loyalty program?
Are you sure?
Because I heard so much bad things about this.
No, it's just truly so.
Okay, cool.
This is amazing.
And then that interest could come back.
That in decentral finance.
I think we haven't seen the last of this DeFi.
Of course, it's all over the place still.
But, you know, that's seriously going to kick things off in the bull run.
But especially businesses, because businesses simply just didn't have the time to adopt in this bull run that was now here about a year ago, two years ago.
And simply put, it's just because it was so new.
The technology was so new, but untested, but in rough waters, you know, token standards came out every few months, you know, so it's tough for a business to commit to something like that.
But now that there are solidified standards, there's various chains with different standards, right, that they can adopt.
I think now is the time we're going to start seeing this.
And I think it's going to be beautiful.
I honestly think it's going to be amazing to see big companies adopting this.
And it's just going to be inevitable that this will be, well, in my personal opinion, bigger than the previous bull runs.
Just simply look at everyone here today.
I mean, our space is not the biggest, right?
But if you did this same space at the time when ICOs was here, you wouldn't have two, three people sitting around the same table.
The vibe in the air was just so much more different.
You know, this previous bull run that was here, you have a lot of creators that didn't leave because they believe in what they do.
It has actually nothing to do with the technology itself.
They believe in themselves enough to stay around because they believe in their project or they believe in what they are creating on this technology.
So I think when we look at this new bull run coming, like Easton has touched on MonkeyU as well, and Sarah, is if enough businesses adopts and uses the technology, Easton mentioned this IBM chain.
You know, fair.
That's fair.
But it's a blockchain, right?
And if it goes well with this IBM thing, and they do have a blockchain, right, it's still blockchain.
The core technology is still the same.
I do, however, believe that a public blockchain has way more value than an internal private one.
And simply put, because it's a lot harder to take down a full-fledged public blockchain than something that's running on a few internal nodes.
But it's IBM.
They will probably sort it out, right?
They will know.
Anyway, let me give it over to you guys.
Monkey, Easton, who was first?
I wasn't paying attention.
I'm not sure.
I'll jump in very quickly because it's sort of on your points and then, Easton.
In fact, Easton, we spoke last week, I think, and we carried it on into MySpace after this.
And I had a look in the IBM chain.
And like Daniel said, it's like a private chain for businesses.
But anyway, I digress.
Like I touched on earlier, speaking to, and I can only really speak from the sort of Web3 and Web2 gaming world because that's where I'm sort of developing.
But like you said, Daniel, the phrase NFT is bad.
Nobody wants to hear NFT.
On-chain gaming, nobody wants to hear that.
They're not interested in it.
You know, these big companies, and I'm talking like, you know, top 10 gaming companies, not interested in on-chain gaming.
It's a bad idea.
NFT is a bad idea.
Account model blockchains are a bad idea, according to these guys.
It's a solidity contracting, a bad idea.
And I think sort of the list goes on.
But I think to solve all that, and I think what you've touched on there, Daniel, is the underlying elements all need to be made so much more secure than what they are now currently within sort of the Ethereum world.
And the way that the assets are stolen.
And then the next step is, once you've got that security down and once you've got that self-custody down, is to make the UI so effective and so good that the people using it don't know they're using it.
Like you said, Daniel, that they're going to open up their app on their phone, and they'll do things just like any app they open up today.
But behind the scenes will be this sort of super secure way of controlling their assets.
And I think that integration between Web 2 and Web 3 doesn't have to be that difficult.
It just needs to be more secure, and the UI just needs to be so much better.
In fact, one of the things we're currently working on right now is like a trading card game, where the UI for that will basically be Web 2.
And behind the scenes, we'll be utilizing the Chia side of the technology.
But we want people to come in from Web 2 and seamlessly, you know, play the game, earn these cards, earn these assets, but seamlessly be able to transition that once they're more comfortable to the Web 3 side of it, where they actually know what they've got in their, I'm going to call it wallet, but it won't be called a wallet, is, you know,
these are assets that now, if you want, you can go and trade these, and you can go and make some cryptocurrency money if you want to.
And that's the key.
It's making it so secure behind the scenes that nobody can hack it, or if they can, they can't do so much damage as to wipe out a whole account.
The UI and then this integration between Web 2 and Web 3 should be seamless enough that they don't really know it's happening.
And that's where big businesses are going to be involved or are going to become interested.
And it's going to be down to us people that are creating now, and I know I can see Scotty down below from the Brawler Bears, you know, doing this type of thing where you're creating this technology that can allow big businesses to look at it and think,
hang on a minute, we can make an extra, you know, few million quid here by just doing this.
And that's how you're going to pull in these new people.
Whether it's going to be in time for the next bull run, I don't know, but it's certainly going to go the right direction over the next few months.
But we'll pass over.
Go on, sorry.
Before we move from this point, Monkey, because you brought up a very interesting point, right?
I think we also need to understand that most of what we have today, Web 2 or Web 3, and I know these terms get quite murky because a lot of people don't understand really the difference between Web 2 and Web 3, first of all.
But it does come down to education, right?
I know a lot of people might be scared of blockchain, yes, one link and you lose it all, right?
It sounds very scary.
But at the core of it, it's actually way more secure than any Web 2 instance out there, which is governed by a central authority, right?
The only reason why people feel more secure when it comes to a centralized authority is because they can go and complain to the central authority.
If something goes bad and maybe with their funds, they can maybe reimburse someone that's lost their funds through a hack or something like that.
And that does give some sort of security, right?
More so than Web 3 currently because you kind of own your own finance, right?
You're responsible for those keys.
You're responsible for not going and clicking on links, you know?
And at the end of the day, if those things can be made more user-friendly for someone, like you said, you know, as well via a company that can obscure that but still make use of blockchain technology, companies will heavily benefit from this, right?
Because currently for a company to really make secure systems, it needs to be a distributed network anyway of, you know, cloud service running their infrastructure, making sure everything is up and running 100% uptime, if they can achieve that even, you know, backups of databases, you know, multitudes of backups.
But if something horribly goes wrong, how many times do we see that, you know, a big company has been hacked and a lot of people's passwords and data and personalized data has been exposed, right, through one of these hacks.
And it just shows you that central or way to kind of ways of keeping the data safe is not always the safest.
That's all I wanted to put out there so that, you know, people don't look down on blockchain and instead look at it as a mechanism to help businesses, you know, just add that extra layer of security.
And we're not going to get to the point where we're going to probably save everyone's passwords and personalized data on a chain because it would just be simply too much data to process, I believe.
And there might be storage solutions for that.
But the premise should be is that the source of truth should always be on a blockchain.
It doesn't matter what technology you use, whether it's a centralized company that makes the source of truth blockchain based.
And if it's a public blockchain, even better, right, because it's publicly accessible, but not sensitive data, but just a record so that no one can argue the fact that a transaction has happened.
And I think if that gets integrated into these businesses and they can see the value, like you say, man, it's going to be magic, right?
It's going to be absolutely magic.
It's almost like all the companies in the world are going to be intertwined with these blockchains and the nodes just running on everyone's computers.
And, yeah, I believe also it would help with a lot of trust, you know, trust in companies more so if a company can prove that, you know, they're very transparent towards what they do with blockchain.
If you take a look at Ripple, Ripple is a private company, right?
They haven't gone public yet, but they act as if they are a public company.
They are super transparent with what they do.
They release these reports, right?
And I guess it's just because of the things that they have to endure, you know, trying to go through these battles.
But apart from that, they don't even need to do that.
Their whole escrow wallet is on the blockchain.
People can see exactly what they do, how they work with that, which in some cases, you know, sometimes is bad for them because, you know, if they move funds, people want to know why.
They get scared, you know, it's all over the news.
But in essence, it's super, super transparent, which, you know, I think more and more companies are going to move towards, especially if the majority does that.
You know, you don't want to be the odd ones left out.
Back in the day when everyone had an email, we didn't have emails, right?
I told myself, basically, back in the day when emails came out, I'm not getting an email.
That's so stupid.
And guess what?
Now I've got a few.
The same I said with websites.
I don't need a website.
Businesses said that with websites and businesses didn't do well who didn't adopt websites because they couldn't market their product to the world in this, you know, evolving technology.
And I believe 100% that this is going to happen with blockchain.
There's going to be businesses who just wants to never use this technology at all.
And at some point, and I understand if that reason is now, currently, because it's very hard to adopt blockchain in your business if the technology has a lot of faults.
But let's hypothetically think about a perfect system of a blockchain.
If that exists and it's easy to adopt in a business to make a business more secure, right?
If you don't adopt that, eventually, time is going to come where consumers are going to say, well, this company is not blockchain-based, right?
Should we use them?
I don't know if it's going to happen, but I think 100% that the technology is moving towards there.
So, yeah.
Sorry for the long explanation, Easton.
You go, man.
I actually would love to talk to Pablo first.
I want to hear his opinion on all this.
Then I go after him.
100%, man.
Thanks.
Thanks, Easton.
Good day, everyone.
Well, good afternoon.
I was throwing smiling emojis the whole time to Easton privately while you were talking, Hash and Sarah and Monkey.
You have no idea how close we really are to what you're saying.
A vision that we have of the future, and this is something Easton and I are discussing privately, possibly with some blockchains.
I don't know, won't say, but we envision a future where we're going to need a main chain, like you're saying.
We, you know, while private blockchains are cool, like IBM is running kind of there, that's all cool.
But we're looking more towards governmental agencies, state agencies, and stuff of that nature.
And we're going to need, that can't, like IRS, put it this way, let's just use IRS as an example.
IRS, we don't want them to have their own blockchain.
It's going to be the same thing, you know, as it is now.
So the future that we see is where there's a, the general consensus would dictate, hey, this is the main chain that these governments are going to be on, but they're public.
They're completely decentralized chains that the government agencies are going to be on.
And, yes, we could have a general counsel that Google could, because I don't like Google, I don't like big tech companies, you know, for obvious reasons.
I don't like Facebook, but I wouldn't mind them being on a counsel of a main chain where we all generally agree that, look, this is where it's going to happen, you know.
And you can have all of these, what we'll call side chains for right now.
And this is all new vernacular we're using here, because Easton and I are constantly trying to come up with new and better, basically Web 2 ways to say Web 3 things.
Because as you said before, Web 2 doesn't even know they're Web 2, never mind knowing what Web 3 is.
And most don't even still know what an NFT is, you know, and what exactly it is.
And just a little side thing, for those who have a tough time explaining an NFT, Easton came up with a great idea on how to explain an NFT.
You can say, just imagine you have your gym membership, right, and it's on an NFT, just like the JPEGs that most people know.
And you see that gym membership and you can see how long it's for, it's for a year.
Now, say six months in, you can't go to that gym for whatever reason anymore.
Well, you could take this NFT, then put it on a marketplace and sell your six months or whatever amount you have left.
That's a very, very easy way to explain to somebody on Web 2 what an NFT is, like the other use case of an NFT.
But to switch back, yeah, we're currently working towards a main chain and just everything.
And in a decentralized way, of course, that's the whole point of the main chain is that it's going to be a completely decentralized chain.
But this is the chain that the IRS will use.
This is the chain that the Department of Labor will use.
You know, that's where everything will run on.
Because no way in hell we're going to be like, yeah, you guys make your own chain, IRS, and that's fine.
We'll trust you on that.
Yeah, no, that's not what we're planning on doing.
And everything that's being said here, in probably about a month or two, if you guys are not supporting Easton and I, we're going to have some big, big beef with you guys and ladies.
And trust me, we're not going to be asking for money.
That is not the support that we are going to be looking for.
But when we're ready, we'll let everybody know what's going on.
But we would definitely appreciate everybody's support when we come out.
Non-financial support, by the way.
Non-financial.
But I love the conversation in here.
Easton, I will throw it back to you.
And thank you for throwing it to me.
Yeah.
What Paolo says is true.
I mean, we are more than aligned.
I mean, when you started to bring up the stuff about changing the words, I think that's the most important thing.
Because in my eyes, my goal is always, how can I get my grandmother to purchase an NFT?
Like, I always look at everything that me and Paolo are doing through that.
Because that's what matters.
Like, those people are the people that are going to be buying.
It's either people that are my age, that are 23, that don't care about the technology.
And then there's going to be, like, older people that also don't care about the technology.
So how can I get my grandma to not only use the technology and make it easy enough for her to use it,
but how can it be appealing and provide value to her?
Like, why would she want to use a wallet and blockchain versus using her bank?
And when we can answer that question, we are on our way.
And it starts out, just like Sarah said, changing the technology.
NFT, just like we saw with the Creator League, that 3 million YouTuber backed out because he saw NFTs in blockchain.
Well, that's a problem because he has a very bad stigma with it.
And we need to change it to words that people can understand and that they can relate to and that they're currently using.
And that's on their plane of, I guess, existence and reality.
So I agree completely.
I think that's really the first step.
And Paula says it all the time, we not only need to educate people outside the space, but we need to educate people inside the space.
Because there's people, when they say Web3 or blockchain, what do they mean?
NFTs? Do they mean crypto?
Does that mean buying JPEGs?
And they don't even know that you can have a blockchain without cryptocurrency.
Like, there's just so much, like, education and, like, misinformation that's being thrown a lot, like, thrown around, that we need to educate ourselves and our, like, peers about what's going on.
So we can all go to educate people outside of the space and, you know, like, really move the space forward.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Love what you guys are saying right now.
Sarah, your hands up.
I'm going to go to you right after this.
As everyone knows, you know, we do have these spaces for two hours and then we go and eat.
Okay.
But it is absolutely amazing because this is important, right?
It is really important.
And I think it also comes down to this.
As you said, how do you tell your grandmother about an NFT and make it feel comfortable enough to buy it on a wallet?
And I've thought about this concept quite a lot.
And in some regards, I would say it is harder.
And we actually understand why.
You know, when you look at millennials or let's say baby boomers, right?
When they were born, the way that they were brought up, the way finance worked, the way that they were told to save, the way that they're told where to trust in funds as well is completely different to if you look at Generation Z, right?
Or even this Gen Alpha, you know, that's starting now.
Generation Alpha, or Gen Alpha, I should say, kids of today, they are so used to doing everything on their mobile devices.
So, if a kid today is comfortable with, you know, watching an endless amount of TikToks and there comes a pop-up and say, hey, you quickly need to pay your utility bill.
You need to save money right now here by a click of a button, right?
They don't care where it goes as long as they know it's on the blockchain because they're quite comfortable and know about the blockchain.
For them, it's okay.
It's going to be quite harder for our parents to even understand or comprehend that.
For the longest time, I've tried to get my dad, you know, into crypto and he just doesn't get it.
It doesn't matter what I do, right?
I am so scared that if he gets into crypto, what's going to happen?
Because he's most certainly going to lose his keys.
He doesn't even remember his passwords most of the time.
So, at the end of the day, it's very hard to explain to someone the technology that we have come to understand and also I would say even for us, I'm, I guess, a millennial, right?
But it still took some time for me to grasp the full concept.
And I think for people in my generation, even, it's hard, right?
Because all of a sudden, we are used to banks.
We are used to this way of dealing with finance.
And we got introduced into this opportunity where we can make this mind shift of, you know, let's start trusting blockchain.
Where I'm just saying for people or kids of today, it's much easier to say blockchain would be the only solution versus where we have to mentally make that shift.
And sometimes that shift could be so hard and so tough that when something goes wrong, we immediately say, you know what, blockchain is bad.
I've tried it.
I don't want it, right?
Versus kids of today being born into blockchain, seeing the kind of progression as we saw the internet grow, right?
And today, we don't see any fault with the internet.
So, let's go to the hands.
And also, when you talk right now, I see Altio, your hands up as well.
Lovely to have you here.
As you say something, maybe just say also what you want to end off the space with.
And then I'll end it off after we go.
Sarah, let's go to you.
I was going to let Altio go.
He has microphone issues.
So, he's been trying to get up and down all day.
So, you go first, and then I'll just have some closing words.
Well, thank you very much, Sarah.
First, hello, everyone.
We're still in the Dominican Republic.
That's how we have spotty Wi-Fi off and on.
But great conversation today.
As most of us up here know, we've been waiting for this bull market for quite some time.
And please don't take anything that you heard up here as financial advice.
We're all DGENs, and we're also learning and building.
But I did learn a lot from my time, you know, collaborating with SenniCab.
But I see Senni's down there.
Hello.
So, you know, I came into this – before I came into this space, I started investing in the stock market, learning.
Because as a millennial, just on the older spectrum, a high-slip just like yourself, you know, financial wealth was something that I've always been trying to get or figure out how to achieve.
And in this modern world, or we can say in the last 30 years, if you didn't come from a wealthy family, you had to either rely on credit cards and all the nonsense that they threw in our faces about, you know, all that you can achieve with these plastic cards.
But in reality, it just kind of dug into a deeper hole and made you more poor than you actually were.
So, for me, Web3 and the blockchain is definitely a way to get away from that mentality of thinking that we have to borrow to get what we want.
And, you know, there's also a nice side of it where artists and creators can also be self-sufficient in the space by building their own collections, by promoting their own projects.
And hopefully, when the bull market does come back, they'll rush back in.
But, you know, I'm one that, like I said before, while I was learning with Senni, you know, there are cycles to this.
And when I came in during 2021, I was looking at Doge, looking at GME, the whole meme stock craze.
And that was the only reason I saw, I kind of paid attention to the ARP side of the NFT and the blockchain was because of that.
I started seeing Dogecoin everywhere.
And, you know, after the NFT started to rise, then the bull market started to come in.
So, I do believe, not financial advice, that we're kind of going back into that where, and I've seen some diagrams that Senni has shown me that there usually is a cycle where after the bear market is a huge rush.
And I would say, do some research, because I would say that I've been looking at these things for the last two years, and I still don't feel like I'm knowledgeable enough to invest.
And I have gotten hurt.
So, if you're new to this, don't rush into anything.
Take your time.
I look at Web3 projects like, you know, companies in the stock market where you may have Tesla now at a certain price, depending on what they do, what investment moves they make or how many vehicles they put out to the public, the stock may grow in a couple of months.
So, if Elon says something dumb, it may drop, you know, so you have to pay a lot of attention to the Web3 founders as well, and look at it like if it was any LLC or any company in the world.
You have to pay a lot of attention.
But one thing that Web2 doesn't have is community, and that's something that is unique to Web3 and what we're building.
You know, like you said, Hashleaves and Sarah, I've been able to obtain a wealth of people that I know now, of friends and partners that I never would have met if it wasn't for Web3.
And also education.
I've learned so much and have been able to help so many because of my, you know, short amount of time in here.
But if we can do this in two years, imagine if we're here 10 years from now when more people actually realize that this exists and sees the value in it.
So, and just to close off, yes, not financial advice.
Do your own research.
Do it three or four times.
And, you know, don't invest.
If you don't have money to invest, don't do it.
You're better off keeping it in the bank.
It's like when you go to the casino, sometimes you win when you don't go to the casino.
Just don't play the games.
So I just leave off to that.
And, again, a little shout out to Sandy.
They do a great job educating.
I learned so much with them.
And Hashleaves, yourself as well.
So thank you, everyone.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Altio, thank you so, so much, man.
It's so lovely to have you on here.
I know you sent me a DM about the connection.
Well, I at least hope you're enjoying it there.
You know, forget about the connection.
Just enjoy it, my friend.
And it's lovely to have you here.
Altio has actually been, you know, a part of this community for such a long time and has helped truly when he says he had the opportunity to help a few people.
He helped quite a lot of people, I have to say, Altio, you can't downplay that.
And he's just such an amazing, amazing guy.
So go and give him a follow if you want to check out what he's doing.
He has his own personal collection, the Hoot Rats, and it's really phenomenal.
So go and check him out.
Also, if you're new to the space, you know, and you like hanging out with us, just come every Sunday.
We have these talks, you know, if you want to learn about educating yourself.
Or learn about blockchain, I have got a YouTube channel.
Everything I do is open source and freely available.
So you can just go and look at that.
If you need some help, go and join the Discord channels.
There's an abundant amount of educational content for you to go through.
You don't have to struggle.
It's all out there.
All you need to do is just do a few clicks, you know, and you'll get everything you'll need.
So let's head over to Monkey, and then we'll go to Don Paolo, and then we'll go to Sarah.
Thanks, Daniel.
I'll just wrap it up here because I need to get off.
But to Don Paolo and Easton, you should really – listening to what you were talking about earlier, you should –
I've pinned to the top there a few different spaces that are going on today, including this one, actually.
This one, my one that I'm hosting in about an hour's time, and then the one afterwards that Art is hosting is with a guy called Gene Hoffman,
who's the CEO of the Chia blockchain.
And if you want to know anything, reference what you're talking about, that man there will know it.
He is something else when it comes to sort of this technology and the understanding of sort of finances as well.
So I just wanted to finish off that.
Quick plug for the next sort of couple of spaces that are coming up.
My one after this, and then one that – you missed my one, but you have to not miss the one with Gene,
in later because it's an education.
That's all I can say.
But thanks, Daniel, for having me up here.
I need to jump down and disappear because I need to have some food before I fire up the next space in about an hour.
So great conversation again.
And, yeah, hopefully we'll see you in some spaces soon.
Go on to Greatness Monkey.
We'll see you in a little bit.
Thank you for helping out today and for being the co-pilot to the co-pilot to the co-pilot.
Have a great, great afternoon and give love to the rest of your family.
May the rest of the day treat you kindly.
Don Palo, go ahead.
Hey, Sea Monkey.
What's up, Beans?
I see Beans down there.
Hey, I just wanted to share really quickly some really weird and interesting thing that just happened.
Eason, to answer your question about the DMs of WTF, somebody – I don't know how legit it is.
I don't know, but I was just – someone just offered or just asked me if they could buy permission to use my PFP in a movie, in a sci-fi movie.
So far, the site looks legit.
It looks like they actually make movies and stuff.
So, I don't know.
I think it's kind of funny.
They thought I had a mutant ape.
But, ladies and gentlemen, this is no way a mutant ape.
This is an AI ape, which I happen to actually love them.
It's one of the few things that I actually love.
And they're hella cheaper than a mutant ape or a board ape.
And they're official derivatives.
I wouldn't go with anything that wasn't.
But, yeah, it's a derivative.
But I just thought that they were really, really cool.
And one of the few – Sarah, I know you don't have any tees, but it's one of the ones I bought because I actually like it.
You know, I didn't buy it because I wanted any utility.
I didn't want anything.
I told Eason, I'm an official ETH guy now because I'm buying for the art.
But, yeah, I just wanted to share that.
I thought it was pretty funny and cool.
Oh, I own NFTs.
I just don't sell them.
I name them and keep them and make them do fun things.
Thank you to each and every one of you today.
The back and forth, the iron that sharpens iron,
is what propels the whole entire ecosystem forward.
You know, when I call it the digital overlay,
it's because there are so many complex layers.
And when you look to the left and the right of you,
there are some folks here that are just so wicked smart.
And they have such unique skill sets and experiences
that we can learn from one another and understand how this new technology,
the digital notary in general, is going to be used in the future
because none of us have the answers, you know, 100%.
All we can do is speak through the prism of our personal experiences
and then hopefully transfer the skills that we have in such a way
that it increases our own proficiencies and capabilities
in one way, shape, matter, or form.
The book that I had recommended is called The End of Reality.
And it's written by a gentleman named Jonathan Talpin.
And he's a very smart, interesting guy.
But he talks about how these four billionaires are playing with us,
the pawns on this board.
And once you understand the game,
you'll understand also how to identify those trends and those factors
and those things that will indicate now is the time.
When we say bull market, it's not a market that's the bull.
It's us.
We are the bull.
And we are the ones that ultimately act.
We get to choose whether we're going to tear up the china shop
or we're just going to run down the streets
and chase after people who are dumb enough to get in our way,
which can happen.
The fact of the matter is that you have to prepare yourself to be ready to act.
You're not a noun, you're a verb.
And in that moment when you're ready to act,
you can profit from your intellect, from your labor,
from your opportunity, from the moment that you're sitting there,
that opportunity that is in front of you because you choose to act.
But businessmen, the most successful people that I've ever met,
it's not that they're lucky.
It's that they see opportunity where other people don't.
And when you train your mind to see that,
when your pirate money becomes tangible
and something that you can feel and that you understand
and that you know and that you can trust in yourself,
in a trustless environment, you have to trust in yourself,
in your gut, and you get to be the bull that calls the shots.
And so I just want to tell each and every one of you,
trust your gut, trust who you are,
and don't sell yourself short
because if something's too good to be true, you know it is.
You are surrounded by people that will help you.
Be that 1-800-JUTIFY call in the middle of the night
and maybe suss out some of the sketchy things that go on.
But when you follow folks that share your North Star,
your odds are increased.
The odds of doing well and making good decisions are increased.
So I just want to say thank you to each and every one of you
for being here.
For Daniel, of course, holding the space.
Sunday afternoons are a special time.
We get to kind of see what's going on in the world.
Marinate on it.
Decide how we're going to go forth and conquer the world.
I hope that the rest of the week treats you kindly
and that you go away with a golden nugget,
something that you can hold on to
that is not going to evaporate with an EMP pulse,
but that you can hold on to.
And make use of it.
Make it multiply.
Make it grow.
Because anything that is stagnant, we all know it putrefies.
So go on to greatness today.
I'm so proud of each and every one of you.
And especially Daniel, because this is his second week of marriage
and she hasn't killed him yet.
So this is good.
Um, this is a very big deal.
So we can just kind of count, you know,
weeks from the day that they got hitched.
And every day, their Sunday that he shows up,
we know that, um, he has treated Ashley kindly
and she hasn't been forced to, you know,
smother him with a pillow or something when he sleeps.
So, um, anyway, you all have a wonderful day.
If you have the time to go to Monkey's space in an hour,
um, supporting him would be awesome.
He seldom talks about his project.
Um, he seldom talks about anything that he's working on personally.
And I just, I think he's such a wonderful man
and he spends so much time in all of your spaces.
Um, and I just, I love that about him.
Um, I do see Senny downstairs, um,
that, uh, El Tio had mentioned.
Wonderful, wonderful mind.
If you are looking to figure out finances and such,
um, what a beautiful soul.
He shares his knowledge so generously.
Um, and we see all of our sketchy friends
and everybody else in the audience today.
Just go on to greatness.
Thank you for your presence.
And, um, we'll see you same time, same place next week.
Absolutely.
Sarah, thank you so much.
And everyone listening in, you know, it was such,
every Sunday, it's so nice
because we never know what we're going to talk about.
And, um, you know, we, we, we hopefully,
I'm certainly left here inspired.
Uh, or at least we learn something
because, uh, like we said, you know,
it's been mentioned many times.
We will sit in here, learn from each other.
Um, and then just the hype starts, right?
And the most important part is that you find your group
in this space.
You find people that you can share their stories with.
And I see that happening all the time in this community.
Um, and if you don't know what this community really is,
and it's the sketchy community,
the sketchy apes community.
So, um, I really come up here and sell stuff,
um, mainly because I'm an artist and it's my art
and it's very difficult for artists to sell their own stuff.
However, I've put our collections here at the top.
They're really affordable.
Uh, if you want something that was purely hand-drawn
and when I say hand-drawn,
I hand-drew each one of these traits
and I used the art engine that made
half of all the NFTs on the marketplace possible.
So, uh, this is the, the, the Genesis collection.
If you want to get one of these,
um, as a beautiful picture on your wall,
there is no utility and stuff.
We are really trying to form a collaborative,
um, artistic community,
a community that supports one another,
that's actually the friendly and the positive group,
you know, in this DGEN space.
Not saying that any others are not,
but I'm just saying we are one of those
that, that really tries and, and,
and sticks around, you know, for one another.
I'm jumping in really quickly, Daniel.
I'm interrupting you.
You know, you never talk about the sketchies
in the way that you should,
because I will tell you something
that there is providence.
That's what's so important about the blockchain
is there's providence.
And each and every one of your PFPs
owes a hat tip to you, Daniel,
and your art engine,
because well over 80% of the ecosystem
in the Web3 digital overlay
owes you a debt of gratitude
for the code that you released out into the wild
and for the wonderful community of devs
and just brilliant minds
that you have in the sketchy labs.
And I can say personally,
my life has changed because of your generosity.
And when you gifted Iris to me,
it's gifted me the opportunity
to be a co-author of your book,
your novella of our sketchy community
and all of their stories
that they so lovingly set to ink
and that we wove into a giant,
big kind of novella.
Um, there is something to be said about that.
And I know that you do have to go for dinner,
but I want to say thank you
because when you're purchasing a sketchy,
um, the fusions, mind you,
are the latest iteration.
Um, you're doing more than just buying a JPEG.
You are investing in a mind
that has selflessly given to countless people,
thousands and thousands of people,
and invested his time and his energy
in his YouTube channel,
which has educated the masses.
You know, we're living in a time
where you have every opportunity
at your fingertips,
every single opportunity to educate yourself,
to hack your own education,
and you've equipped, enabled,
and inspired greatness in others.
And I highly recommend
that if you do not own a sketchy,
that you do.
Because 20 bucks is nothing
in the scope of all eternity.
And yes, you know,
when we're thinking about
those kitchen table economics,
the fact that you invested in someone
that is going to help you get to the next level
is investing in yourself,
not necessarily investing in Daniel.
I'm so proud of him,
and I'm so proud of what he's done.
And yeah, so I wanted to chime in
because it is something
that we don't talk about enough, Daniel.
I have three, or I had three original pieces
of your artwork, hand-drawn.
I saved Iris's striped T-shirt,
and she is framed in my studio,
but I re-gifted the other two
to people in the community
so that they would have the pen and the ink
that started on your table,
and the revolution that has started
with all of us in your pocket family.
So yes, I highly recommend
buy a fusion, invest in them,
because it's the gift that keeps on giving.
I guarantee it.
And that is financial advice, by the way.
Thank you so much, Sarah.
Yeah, we don't talk about this sketchy so much.
And I think, you know,
there's a time and place, I believe,
for each and every conversation piece
to take place.
And I certainly, I think,
throughout our spaces
and throughout doing education,
you know, this coming year,
I think it's a good way
to get people involved in these,
you know, in our community,
but in good communities.
You know, I think so many people
are concerned about onboarding
and how people get onboarded.
But I think when you start off
in a community like this,
you just start off with way,
like a way better chance,
you know, not to have any pitfalls.
And you have brilliant minds,
you know, amongst us.
There's some truly phenomenal people
in this community,
like yourself, Sarah.
And thank you for all these flowers.
You know me,
I cannot take these things.
I go red in the face
and I go quiet.
So instead of me doing that,
I am going to go and eat.
But I really appreciate it.
I want to touch on something,
but I see, Joharmini,
you have your hand up.
So I don't want to,
I don't want to skip you.
Do you quickly want to say something?
Because I do have
one last thing to mention,
which you touched on earlier on, Sarah.
But Joharmini,
do you want to chip in?
Yes.
Yes.
And, you know,
I know you have to go eat,
but you did mention
our beautiful community
and I had to say something
because like Sarah said,
you don't do it enough justice.
You know,
Don Paulo mentioned
the collection that he bought into
because he loved the art.
I was so proud
to mince my sketchy
comic book clubs
and everything that came after that.
I mean,
the free airdrops,
the holders,
the art engine collection,
which has the actual source code
embedded into the art.
And there are only 2,500 of them.
If you don't consider
that something of value,
I don't know what is.
And then just everything
that you have done
throughout the months
when we're going through
this horrible bear market
when we could have been buying
into, you know,
collections that,
you know,
were like an EF in price
and the founders
were looking to rug everyone.
you kept the community safe.
You kept us minting
free mince.
You kept free mince
from the golden collection.
And I think that helped us grow
and also learn
about the community.
like you said,
Sarah,
I mean,
if you want to buy
into an inexpensive collection
and also an amazing community,
this is one of them.
And one more thing
I'm going to say,
we're not a derivative.
That's the beauty.
And we went through
a long fight.
I remember last year
to make sure we got
a little check mark
from OpenSea
because they thought
we were a board API
club derivative,
but we're not.
that just says
also a lot.
thank you,
Hashlist,
for all that you have done.
I know I'm going to be
sketchy for life.
And yeah,
definitely buy in.
I can recommend this.
It is financial advice.
You got so much utility
and you said
there are no utility?
because you completed
the roadmap.
You gave out
all the utility
you possibly could
and you still are
through the education
that you provide
and the community
that you have fostered.
there is no better
collection to buy into
than a sketchy
comic book club,
the Fusion,
which was an evolution
of the sketchy labs,
sketchy comic book club,
and then also
sketchy comic club.
And I don't know
how many more
collections you've dropped,
but definitely look
into Hashlips,
go to OpenSea,
type his name
on the search bar
and see everything
that he's put out there
and how inexpensive it is.
We're not telling you
you know,
spend all the money
in the bank
to buy into the community.
We're telling you
look at the collection,
get one,
and you're going
to be a part of us.
Thank you, guys.
Thank you so much.
Now I'm really
red in the face, man.
But honestly,
all the amazing love
that you guys show us
by just pitching up
here,
you're already part
of the community.
We always say,
you know,
if you just take part,
because most people
don't have even 20 bucks
or five bucks
to pay out, right?
But they have
such a good heart
that they can contribute
in this community
and this space
and with their conversation
and the knowledge
that they share.
And that,
you know,
we value way more
than just buying
like the artwork
themselves.
The reason why
I would like people
to purchase an artwork
is essentially,
you know,
I've been an artist
for almost 10 years,
right?
And it is something
special to me personally
as an artist,
you know,
who has spent
a good amount of time
on the blockchain space.
This is the collection
that we're all
like proud of,
love,
and that brought
all these amazing
people together.
And what you'll find
is anyone in this space,
especially in this,
in the sketchy space,
is builders
and they're busy building
and they believe
in themselves
and we believe in them,
right?
And we want them
to do good
and to grow.
And I think
with that encouragement,
you know,
leading into this space,
it's just,
it's just a recipe
for success
because you hang around
with people,
you know,
that does good
and also that can encourage you
when you are not
feeling so well,
right?
it's just about support.
But enough of that now,
right?
I just wanted to say,
go and get a sketchy.
But apart from that,
I wanted to say that
I hope you have
a phenomenal week,
okay?
And Sarah,
you touched on something
about if you,
like,
good founders
and I've always observed
this, right?
Good people,
good business leaders
and so on,
they manage to find
the gap
very well
where others can't.
And coincidentally,
I'm actually doing
a presentation
pretty soon,
around the 28th,
on a,
on actually,
Hashlips
and kind of
how it blew
out of proportion,
you know,
the whole,
the whole code base
and stuff.
It's going to be
really cool.
It is,
it is not a public
actual presentation.
But when I was
creating this presentation,
I really noticed
that there is
a tiny recipe for,
I won't call it success,
but what I am going to say
is it's damn exciting.
There's a recipe
for a damn exciting thing,
which you can refer to
as success,
which I just refer to
as exciting
because when you mix
these three things,
magic happens.
And they are,
and I'll actually,
maybe next week,
speak more about
the presentation
and we can make
the whole space
about that,
sharing this kind of recipe.
And I didn't even know
that this was a recipe
until I've,
I did it
and I kind of
saw the results
and I kind of
applied it again
and it works the same.
And there's three things
that anyone can follow,
whether it's
an open source environment,
whether it's code-based,
whether it's
with your colleagues,
whether it's,
you know,
any situation.
A recipe for success
is if you can identify
a need for a solution
and we can call that
the gap.
If there's something
that people are struggling with,
let's call it,
for example,
onboarding into the crypto space
and you find a solution.
It doesn't have to be
the perfect solution.
It just needs to be
a viable one.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
That's the number one.
Number two,
I found that
you need to
put that solution
into the world.
You need to share it.
You need to,
you know,
bring that idea
into the reality.
You cannot keep it
for yourself
unless it's something,
of course,
you want to
turn into a business,
then please don't
go and share that.
But if it's something
that you can see
can be a solution
to a lot of people,
it doesn't have to be perfect.
That's number two.
So number one,
find a gap.
Two,
share a solution
that's viable.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
And the third one
that is going to
combine it all
and definitely
make it successful
is if you can do
these things
in a collaborative space.
And a good example
of that
is open source code.
because
if you have
a good solution
to what a lot
of people find
is a problem
which back in the day
there wasn't a way
for artists
to create
generative art.
There wasn't.
You had to be a coder
and all the coders
that was in the space
wasn't willing to share
what they are doing
because they want to
keep it tight
and it's secret.
But that was
a big problem.
So I applied that,
created a code,
released it open source.
It wasn't perfect.
I can say that right now.
It wasn't perfect.
But it did the job
and I made it open source.
And through collaboration
and this very community,
people taking part,
people improving it,
people forking the repo,
meaning they duplicate the code
and they make it their own
and then they add to it.
We got to learn what they do.
So we implemented that
back into the code.
And it was this
magical snowball effect
that no one could stop.
Until this very day,
it continues to happen.
I think it's a very proud moment,
you know,
to look back
at the little 200 lines of code
that I wrote back in 2021
and to see that repo
having close to 7,000 stars
and almost over 4K forks,
meaning that, yes,
Sarah is correct.
You know,
close to 80%
of the entire
NFTs that's on the market
has probably been created
by the art engine
or at the very least
have been inspired
or created by a tool
that was derived
from the art engine's fork.
And that is a very proud thing
to say.
But it is,
I want to say it
in a way
that doesn't sound bragging
because I don't like that
when people speak highly
of themselves, right?
But I really,
from the bottom of my heart,
I found it
absolutely just phenomenal,
this journey.
And the people
that's sitting right next to you
right now, right,
each person here
has something
that they work on,
whether it's their own talk show,
whether it's their own
maker space,
whether it's their own project,
their own solutions
or code
or whatever it might be.
They're in the space
to learn,
to better themselves,
to enrich their lives
in some sort of way.
And I just want to put
that out there.
I think next spin,
next space,
we're going to discuss this more.
But it really comes down
to these three things.
And the level of success
that you can reach
following these three things
really depend on how big
the gap was
that your solution
tries to cover.
and I also want
to put it out there,
you know,
if you are looking
into making your
idea come to life,
doing it in collaboration
really,
really makes a difference.
Now,
we've taken everyone's advice,
everything that people love
about creating art,
we've created the Art Engine 2,
2.0,
and it's now fully fledged.
It's out there.
It has documentation.
You can build
any plugins.
You can truly do
anything with it right now.
And that wouldn't have
even been
something to think about
if in the beginning
there wasn't this little
ugly code base
that made it happen,
right?
I think it's going to be cool.
That's just what I wanted to add
because I have to
build out this presentation
as well.
But I thought I'll share it
with you guys as well.
have a phenomenal week
as always.
You know,
be inspired
and go and do good.
You know,
life is very,
very short.
You'll realize
life just goes
super,
super fast.
And there's no time to waste.
If you have dreams,
go and chase them,
you know,
and have fun.
And I really hope
everyone has a great week.
Sarah,
thank you as always
for co-hosting.
Altio,
Easton,
Nonpalo,
everyone who was on stage,
monkeys who left,
go and join his face.
Thank you everyone for talking.
But most of all,
thank you everyone
for listening in.
We'll see you next week.
Cheers for now.
Cheers for now.
