Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
What coins do we believe will moon? $zeph
Recorded: Nov. 27, 2023 Duration: 3:28:42Space Recording
Full Transcription
I'll see you next time.
All right, guys.
How are we doing this evening?
Kareem, how are you?
Is it Karim or Kareem?
Can you hear me okay?
Okay.
All right, cool.
Let's see if anyone else wants to roll in.
I'm eating my ravioli here for Sunday evening.
If anyone has some stuff to shill that they own or whatever, feel free to hop up.
I want to see what else we're missing as far as loading up the bags and stuff.
Because right now, it's like the low-cap, relatively low-risk stuff that's pretty good projects are probably going to do well.
Later, after your shit goes up, you'll have to, like, if you want to sort of, like, maybe reinvest gains or something like that, you'd have to find, like, really risky or, like, stupid projects like dApps and things.
Which, you know, they can go up, but they're not as serious.
But I think it's definitely bag-loading time if there is ever such a time.
So, Lunatic, what's going on?
What are you buying?
Hey, what's up?
Really, I kind of just want to, in general, shill BRC20 tokens because I think the entire market cap of all BRC20 tokens is, I think, around $2 billion.
And most of that is just two tokens.
So, like, my biggest play is TRAC, which people are calling, like, a...
Where do you get to this thing?
Oh, so BRC20 tokens, they're kind of like this new thing.
The main marketplace where people buy them is called Unisat.
And they're basically trying to build stuff on top of Bitcoin, which obviously is slow, but, you know, people, you know, still think it's that it...
You know, still think it's...
Go ahead.
You're getting money to Unisat how?
You're sending Tether or something or BTC or what?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like a...
It's got a web extension wallet.
So I use their wallet called Unisat.
And where do you send your, like...
Oh, it's...
Yeah, like, what kind of wallet is it?
It's like a UTXO or what is it?
It's like a Chrome extension.
I'm not super technical, so I might be stupid on some words.
But BRC20 is like, you're not writing...
It's like writing some data on the Bitcoin chain or...
Yes.
What's the point?
Right.
So, again, I'm not super technical.
And I think early on, a lot of people were saying that what they're trying to do is impossible.
And, but basically, my understanding is that they are figuring out ways to basically create DeFi and other things on Bitcoin.
Yeah, and track the project I'm talking about.
So the simplest way to buy track is to do what?
Go on Unisat.
Yeah.
Yeah, right now it's not...
I think it's listed on...
U-N-I-S-A-T, like in Sats, like Satoshi.
Correct.
Correct.
Okay, Unisat.
And then you send over some, like, what?
Tether or BTC or anything else?
Really Bitcoin.
You send over Bitcoin.
Yeah, and one thing, again, I'm not super technically savvy.
I've been in the market since 2017.
But one thing that's really cool about BRC20s is that they're all fully minted out.
So, like, the ones that are already on the market, there's no dilution that you have to worry about.
So that's something that's, like, really bullish about them, in my opinion.
So track is basically...
So track is, like, a fixed supply coin that is...
Its existence is recorded on the Bitcoin blockchain.
And is that the gist of it?
Yes.
Maybe Stale knows more about it because he seems to have, like, BRC20 in his, like...
His name.
Yeah, so track is a...
I'm not sure how much you know about it so far.
But it's an infrastructure play, right?
So it's an indexer.
But it's more of an ecosystem because it has all of these protocols, like tap and pipe.
And they support index...
You know, they're trying to build indexing for the new called digital matter theater theory.
They also do indexing.
And they work with bitmaps, like Blockamodo.
Now, to clarify, like, the ordinals thing is different than this, right?
Sorry, you cut out there.
What was that question?
I said, is ordinals different than this?
So it's using ordinal theory.
But, yeah, it's...
BRC20s is different.
Slightly different in terms of...
BRC20s was released by Domo, a person called Domo, I believe.
And they use ordinals.
And then it was...
So it's all an ecosystem.
You're like, your voice sounds really far away still.
Something's going on.
Something happened to your mic.
Stale, I muted you because your mic is going nuts over there.
I'm not sure what's happening.
I really can't hear you well at all.
MT, can you hear him?
No, I couldn't hear him very well either.
Yeah, it sounds like a meteor shower has happened in his backyard or something.
Yeah, your mic is still a mess, bro.
I don't know what's going on.
Oh, sorry.
So this...
What's the last you've heard?
Because it switched.
Very little because I'm not sure.
Like, you're connected to something else.
Okay.
Yeah, so track...
Again, whole ecosystem.
Big indexer, it's a play like similar to Chainlink and Graph on Bitcoin.
So it's going to continue to grow.
I mean, I was in a space yesterday where there was just projects left and right announcing that
they're on track stat protocol.
So continuous builders coming in, I think it's going to be biggest, you know, on the B26 20s.
I mean, I was minting BRC 20s since May.
And track was like...
I believe it's not going to be my return.
I'm holding that for years to come.
The other thing is...
Right now, there are good plays on BRC 20s.
Multi-braves.
There's like swaps, G-H-S-Y.
Yeah, this is just something else.
You know, you guys are...
So it's like...
BRC 20 narratives.
By the way, your voice...
Your mic is like hideous to listen to, by the way.
But like, maybe I'll paraphrase.
Like, so track is kind of like a Bitcoin ordinals project.
And basically, like the concept here is like...
Well, first off, the chart, as far as price action,
it's kind of pulled a little bit of a ZEF type move where it's at like 60 million market cap at the moment.
So it just sort of started taking off.
And, you know, some people, like that scares them away.
They're like, oh, it's already pumped too much and all this sort of thing.
And that's not necessarily true.
So early in a bull market, the first pump just basically is like, you know, attention attraction pretty much.
So like, everyone's like, whoa, what's that thing?
And then next thing you know, like, you'll have like a retrace of, you know, just like Zephyr is doing like a 30 to 40% retrace.
And then like things will head on up after that.
So usually it's not, it's fine.
Like, yeah, track, if I'm going to get some track, it would be like maybe I'd just get an allocation and just sit on it forever.
Maybe go like small scale, I think.
And then just let it ride and see what happens.
But yeah, in a bullish market, like if everything's going up, there's no question like the track people seem to have some like,
seem to have a little bit of like social traction or whatever.
So that's good.
Yeah, I'll try to offer more.
Probably track will generate more attention than something like the Zephyr too.
Because Zephyr is a very niche thing.
So we'll have to see how that goes.
But I'm not sure how fairly launched and stuff track is.
Like, you know, how many, how much of the supply is owned by who?
So it's a 21 million supply.
It's fixed supply.
And I'm not sure.
It's not like it's being burned or anything.
But it's definitely not inflating.
And, you know, it's fairly distributed because it ended out early on.
I have to double check the older percentages again.
But yeah, it's a good point.
Once I exit my mic, I'll definitely share more on it because I stay up to date on it every day.
You actually sound fine now.
And I really believe it's like, you know, similar to the graph and chain link of BRC20s because they're, right now it's all their indexing service centralized.
But he's, you know, Benny the dev.
He's going to be moving into a decentralized indexing.
And I thought there's also going to be a tap airdrop next, early next year.
As of yes, that will probably happen sometime January, early next year for all track holders.
And tap has been, it'll be airdropped.
So, you know, the protocol is already successful.
So is track the coin of the protocol or is it like just a simple store of value coin?
Or what does it do?
Does it do anything?
So the track token is a governance token of the whole ecosystem.
Track ecosystem has various protocols like tap, pipe, and they're all growing.
And they basically extend functionality of BRC20s away and just make it, you know, let's say just evolved.
So ordinals and BRC20 evolved.
So it's successful.
Has minted it, like the dev minted the tap coin, representing the tap property.
But I know an airdrop's coming, and that will definitely push the price of track up a lot once there's a formal, you know, announcement.
All track holders will be airdropped.
So, like, there's a, if you join the Discord, there's so much information.
It's hard to get, but it's definitely like the hardest thing in the 2020s.
I don't even have time to, like, generally, like, join Discords.
It's just too painful.
Like, the more Discords you join, the more, like, scatterbrained you get.
Just like you get notifications every five seconds then.
But I either, like, then I end up turning off the notifications.
I don't know what's going on anyway.
So it's like almost no point in joining.
I usually just like to hear from people and, like, hear their opinion on it.
And then, like, decide if it's worth, you know, aping into just based on market cap and momentum and whatever else.
And then, you know, if it moons, then I can do my research later.
Like, that's kind of my theory.
If it goes to zero, I don't have to worry about it, right?
Yeah, it's done really well.
I think it's going to go a while.
Yep.
Go ahead.
I just wanted to add that I think a lot of, like, valuation and, like, how people evaluate if something is cheap is, like, relative.
And so, like, when we compare BRC20 market cap to ERC20 market cap, it's, like, there's no comparison.
Like, I think ERC20s is probably well over or at least close to $100 billion market cap, if not more.
And BRC20s is only $2 billion market cap.
Like, it's just extremely early for BRC20s.
Now, what other BRC20 stuff is there?
Because, like, TRAC is only $60 million market cap.
So, the two that are the largest are kind of just, like, the first one doesn't even have any functionality.
Or, actually, I think they're building in functionality, but it's ORDI.
It was the first BRC20 token.
So, really, just being the first is why it has so much attention.
I think the market cap is something like $400 million or something like that.
And then the second biggest one is SATS, whichβ¦
A lot of holders.
Oh, go ahead.
Yeah, SATS.
Yeah, a lot of holders on SATS.
Yep.
Go ahead.
Yeah, SATS had aβ¦
It was unique.
I mean, it was slowly minted.
And I think they had over, I think, like, over 30,000 holders online when it was fully minted out.
And it's probably a lot more thanβ¦
So, it just naturally went up, leaked the system.
I mean, some of the, like, most recent BRC20s are stuff like MUBerry.
These are, like, bridges and anonymous swapping.
They're doing really well.
So, it's, you know, a lot of it was kind of, like, mean plays and didn't move much.
But there's, like, a, you know, are still developing.
Oshii had promises in theory, but they kind of, like, they're kind of dead.
But there's ORPO, liquidity pools, or PO.
That might be something of value.
But in terms of, like, actually products, like MUBI and GOSwap, G-H-S-Y, they actually have products and TRAC.
I mean, those are a pretty good place.
And these are all things you get on Unisat that he was talking about?
Yeah.
Unisat, and then I think the other one is OKX Marketplace.
So, it's, like, the tech to have these tokens is special or something?
Like, you can't simply, like, stick this on a regular centralized exchange, for example, or no?
So, the regular exchanges are recognizing them.
I mean, Binance released a tracking of the ecosystem.
Yeah, some of the exchanges are supporting BRC20s.
I know Gate.io, and, yeah, they're adopting it.
It's just a matter of time.
Yeah.
I know Ordi is on KuCoin and a bunch of big exchanges.
Cool.
Cheetah, what are you buying?
You got anything interesting?
I was just going to hop on to help out the BRC20 discussion.
So, like, the entire thing revolves around each minting of a block of the coin is still an inscription.
So, it's still an ordinal, essentially, at its foundation, and that still is very clunky when you try to move amounts of it.
So, like, the amount that you mint is still registered to your wallet.
So, let's say you mint a million Ordi, and then you want to sell it.
You still have to break it into reasonable chunks that somebody else is going to purchase in those chunks.
And then for every, let's say you try to sell $100,000, and then people are like, well, I'm not going to pay the market value for that many.
So, then you try to break it into $10,000, so now you have to write a new inscription.
You have to continue to go through the software or, like, some online application to do that for each new inscription.
So, from my experience, it's been very clunky, and it, honestly, unless you're, like, the first person to sell from a collection or you're the first person to get your allocation, it hasn't seemed like something that's usable yet.
Now, I know most of the major exchanges are just probably trading on...
Like, in this stage of the, like, market, like, to me, it's like, okay, tell me what button to push, and I'm going to push it, like, and I can get a 10x on the thing.
Or more, like, you know, like, that's...
If I'm going to go to, like, to the fringes of the market, I want to do something that's really straightforward, easy to sell, pretty liquid, and you don't have to play too many games with it.
Unless, you know, you're married to the thing.
You love the ordinals, and you just want to keep it forever.
I get it.
But, like, if you're just talking about it from the perspective of, like, I want to buy something and sell something at some point.
Like, NFTs and stuff.
Like, anything like that, like, I feel like I don't follow the shit enough to, like...
You know, and follow the nuanced market of that stuff to do well in it, in terms of, like, what to buy, when to buy it, you know, and then do all the research and shit and sit on that stuff.
Like, I miss the entire sort of, like, early NFT phenomenon on Ethereum, for example.
I just didn't...
Like, I had other shit to do with my life, and I didn't do any of that stuff.
And I think some people do really well with it, obviously.
I don't have a problem with it.
I just, like, I'm not sure if I have the time to sort out the different NFTs and ordinals or whatever to worry too much.
Like, I just bought NFTs mostly for entertainment purposes, like, you know, for the art or for maybe, like, the community or something or whatever, right?
Like, that's kind of how I've made decisions on NFTs and things like that.
But, yeah, guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but, like, honestly, the BRC20 stuff is still so clunky.
Like, you buy it, and you're...
When you buy it, you've got an inscription that's written to your wallet, and then you have to go and re-inscribe the allocation that's been provided to your wallet to a new inscription.
And, like, it's very straightforward in UNISAP, but it's still, at the same time, it's very illiquid.
Like, it is not, like, buying a meme coin and hoping it goes up, and then you just hit buy or sell, and it goes away.
But, yeah, I mean, that's definitely true.
It's not the best user experience as of now, and Bitcoin is already really slow, so that makes it even worse.
But, you know, the fact that it's being built on Bitcoin, I think, gives it a massive total addressable market.
And as I said earlier, when you compare it to ERC20s, the market cap is just tiny in comparison.
So, that's my, you know, that's part of my bull thesis.
Interesting.
Yeah, I mean, like, right now, a variety of the things I picked up are just simply, like, either stuff.
Well, I had some stuff just bag-holding for the last few years, which are now, you know, headed back into, like, neutral territory.
And have luckily, fortunately, like, most of the stuff I picked last cycle or whatever, you know, the only sort of, like, train wreck in the ecosystem was really Luna.
Well, I take that back.
I had a fair amount of, like, shareholder of, like, the Voyager as well.
So, like, I got wrecked there.
So, like, there's some areas where I definitely, like, lost some money and, you know, just licking wounds or whatever.
But there are a lot of other things I picked up that have done just fine.
And not only have, like, the inflationary rewards or whatever have kind of, like, balanced me out.
But, like, all of them, everything looks like it's about to moon, relatively speaking.
So, I think, at this point, like, pretty much all of the, like, Cosmos Layer 1 tokens are doing pretty well.
Even the ones that are, like, heavy VC backing or have shitty token distribution, like, I mean, like, Celestia or SayNetwork.
All these things are, like, you know, heavily early investor focused.
And clearly, by buying them, you are pumping somebody's bags for sure.
Like, so, there is a concept there that, you know, I'm going to get, like, some multiple and then exit.
I don't really care if they go higher or not.
Like, a good example of that is, like, Celestia.
I'm, like, it made a 2X.
I'm, like, fuck it.
I'm out.
Like, I'm not sitting here, like, you know, pumping some, you know, like, VC's bags for whatever reason.
Like, I just don't need to be messing with that.
So, I feel like those types of things have a lot of selling pressure if you wait too long.
And so, what I did was I knew that those VC-backed things would have, like, some momentum.
So, I picked up some SEI, like, SayNetwork.
I picked up, which is a high-speed Cosmos chain.
I picked up Celestia and stuff.
And basically, the idea is, like, I know it's going to go up because the VC-funded chains, no matter how much shenanigans they have or how much dumping they do, what they definitely do is they pump their bags.
Like, they'll have people on YouTube and they'll spend tons of effort because they put in who knows how many millions or whatever into liquidity and whatever to create those chains or early investing.
They want to see, like, 100X returns.
And to get those returns, they're going to be willing to do anything for them, including, like, you know, promote YouTubers or whatever the hell, right?
Like, you know, and all the little dApps and things, too, on L1 chains, as well as NFT projects and DEXs and whatever the hell else shows up on those.
All those people tend to shill those early L1 chains.
So, the early L1s tend to go up fast, like Kujira's another one.
And so, all of those, I think, are reasonable, like, you know, allow it to run up.
And then what I'll probably do is if, like, you know, if those things run up early and the, like, big bull market FOMO crowd has not arrived, like, and you'll know that's, like, the FOMO crowd has arrived because, like, you know, BTC will start to move heavy.
Ethereum will start to move heavy.
Really, anything in the top 50 that's on central exchanges everywhere will start to move aggressively.
Because, like, a lot of the OG people are looking for, like, the early new bets.
You know, they're picking Zephyr and they're picking, you know, these different things that are going to, like, they're looking for, like, really rapid multiples early on.
Whereas the newbies don't know about any of that shit, right?
They don't come up, they don't start in and go, oh, I'm going to buy Zephyr, I'm going to buy Track or whatever.
That's not what they're buying.
Like, so right now you're just taking, like, this, like, existing community and pumping all sorts of little coins.
Then what will happen is all those people will feel like they're doing pretty well.
And I think they're going to, you know, these things are going to leave, like Chainlink did and whatever.
And what's going to happen then is, like, then those people are going to tell their friends and family or whoever.
They're going to jump on, ooh, what crypto should I buy?
And what they're going to buy is they're going to go on to just Coinbase or whatever and just click buttons, right?
You know how this works.
Like, they just buy shit.
So my thought is, like, okay, if these early chain type things, the lower market cap things, you know, if you can kind of, like, secure a 10X in them, exit before the VCs dump on your ass.
And then, like, then just look at what the market is and say, okay, if, you know, you wait for some pullbacks or you wait, maybe, like, jump into something that is more, like, traditional, you know, like, you know, you jump into the Atoms or the ETHs or you jump into, like, you know, the Chainlinks and things like that.
Then, you know, if they ride up further, great, you can get a little bit more multiple, but you're not taking, like, super high risk at that point.
And you can, like, lock in your gains or whatever into something that's likely to go up more slowly over maybe a few years, but, like, not instantaneously or nor are you, like, trying to lose all your money or whatever again.
And so the, I think that's kind of the general strategy cycle after cycle is to kind of, like, you know, there are some bags that, you know, you don't, you don't marry, you just, like, exit them and just, like, trade them.
And then some that you're willing to hold longer term into another cycle or, like, you know, there might be some people that just exit completely.
But, you know, there are some coins, like, Atom, for example, that are highly inflationary, which, like, helped a lot in terms of, like, they helped quite a lot in terms of riding out a bear market because of inflation.
So, anyway, but there's, yeah, there's different strategies available, I think.
Like, and so these are kind of the coins that I've been kind of, like, waiting to just sort of fly.
And then I bought some Dogecoin.
I kind of post about that because I have this sense that, like, like, nobody's paying attention to Doge at all, which means that the price hasn't moved practically at all.
So it's practically a store of value at this level because, you know, it's already ridden out of bear market.
It's already starting to, like, the moving average is starting to turn.
And even if it doesn't go up very much, like, I can throw a little bag in there that, like, of cash that I might need.
Like, maybe I'll, maybe I need to sell some to, like, you know, go buy some groceries or something.
But, like, it's, like, you know, I don't think there's that much downside left in it.
And I think, you know, it's an easy sort of, like, it's almost like a seismograph, like, when the earthquake comes and if Doge starts to move, you know the people are back, right?
So I just keep a little bit to watch it and just to pay attention because, like, if you're following the ticker or, like, if I post something about Doge and I see a lot of people liking and following, then I'm like, okay, I know what's about to happen in this market, right?
So this, like, the funny thing about these, like, larger Twitter accounts, like, once you get to certain size and people start to follow, you're, like, you start to get a sense of the, you do get to start, you know, get a sense of, like, what the fuck people are thinking.
It's not the, like, the ability to influence the market that matters.
It's the ability to detect changes in the sentiment at, like, some fundamental level.
And so far, I haven't seen, like, almost anybody posting stuff about Doge.
In fact, if you search the Doge ticker, like, there's practically nobody there.
And that's usually a great time to be involved because what's happening there is, like, if you look at the Doge's, like, you look at its chart, like, it's clearly not going to zero.
And it's clearly not going a whole lot further because it had plenty of ample opportunity to do so.
And it's flattening out quite nicely over almost, like, a year and a half, two years.
And I think, like, what will happen is that all those people that accumulate it, because, you know, all those Doge dorks that bought it, like, the first time and did really well, you know, it went up, like, 10,000% or some shit.
Like, they did amazingly well.
And a lot of those people have wallets.
They know how to buy it.
They know where to buy it.
And the moment it starts to go up and their friends start talking about it again, they'll all show up and know exactly what to do.
And that huge crowd will only have to throw a little bit of money in and the thing, you know, basically starts to fly, right?
And then the other thing is, like, Doge is available on practically every exchange after last season.
And it's available on leverage and grid bots and everything.
So there's, like, a sense that, like, I have that the probability of it going up is quite high.
Like, but at the same time, it's a high market cap, like, almost like store of value play now.
It's not going to, like, I don't think it's going to 100x, right?
Like, if it goes, if it does anything, maybe it does, like, like, if it does a 10x, it goes back to prior high, first of all.
So, like, it could definitely do that.
It's Doge, after all.
Like, if you underestimate that thing, like, you haven't learned anything from previous seasons, I think.
Like, Doge put Bitcoin to absolute shame when it comes to, like, making gigantic moves, right?
Like, Bitcoin's never done that to that extent.
So they got their meme game down, man.
Like, so I'm not one to fade Doge again, even though it's, like, it seems like last year's thing or whatever.
Like, to me, it's, like, it's worth watching it just sort of as a sentiment bellwether.
So it's, like, it's a tiny portion of my portfolio, by the way.
It's, like, it's barely worth, you know, having a space about, honestly.
But, like, I do think it's a good, like, when I, having it in my portfolio, I watch, you know, it'll, I'll be able to tell without even looking at the chart, like, where I'm at.
And it tells me where I'm at in the market and what's happening.
Because if it starts going up, it's, like, fuck it, you know, might as well just throw money at everything.
Like, there's not even a point in, like, having any money left in the bank.
Because if that starts going up, everything moons, right?
So there's certain things that are bellwethers, in my opinion.
And they tell you that the, like, FOMO crowd is back.
And so far, I don't see that yet.
Like, I don't see a FOMO crowd at all.
Like, I don't see a bunch of newbies around here asking, oh, how do I, like, you know, how do I buy ETH and how do I move it to a wallet and stuff?
Like, you don't have any of those questions right now.
Like, if anyone's here as a newbie, feel free to hop up here.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
But I don't think almost anybody here is a newbie still.
Like, that's my suspicion.
And we used to get lots of newbies, right?
Like, back, what, in, like, late 2021, right?
Like, that time period, you'd have all sorts of new folks.
And, you know, they're like, what exchange should I use?
And what's a good, you know, like, what's a good wallet and whatever.
We don't get any of that right now.
So, but anyway, yeah, Cheetah, what other things are you doing?
Honestly, at this point, I'm just hanging out and watching.
Like, we're, like you said, Bitcoin's at that, like, resistance level.
So, just waiting to see how we move on the upward direction, see what the rest of everything does.
Well, usually that's exactly when the alts move.
Yeah, that's exactly when the alts pop is, like, that main BTC resistance.
It goes sideways.
And then, like, people are looking for action.
And they just start taking risk on stuff at that point.
Because BTC is high enough.
I mean, honestly, it's, like, 37 is not bad.
It's, like, halfway to its prior high, right?
Or just thereabouts.
So, that's pretty good as far as, like, the overall picture there.
So, I'm not too concerned about that part of the market.
I think crypto also is just much more likely to do better than the stock market.
I mean, the stock market has no fucking chance right now, right?
Like, you'll catch a few bids.
And, you know, maybe you'll wait, like, three, four years.
And maybe all your bags will go up.
And I bought plenty of stocks, too, by the way.
But I didn't buy those with the expectation of serious gains.
Like, I just, I bought low because, like, the dividend levels were high relative to stock price.
And that was the whole play there.
That's more of just, like, an income bag for years and years to come.
But it wasn't, like, that's not designed to beat my crypto allocation.
In fact, I will bet you just what I have in Zephyr will beat everything I bought in stocks for the entire last year and a half.
Like, just that alone.
And I don't even have that much Zephyr.
So, I would say that, like, it's probably going to 3x my stock bag in no time compared to everything else.
That's my theory, at least.
You know, I don't want to get everyone on too much hopium and shit and, like, you know, put your life savings in something.
But the point is, like, I do think, like, the crypto space is much more likely to pop than a lot of other things out there.
Especially stocks.
I mean, Jesus, like, what stock are you going to buy that's going to, you know.
Like, first of all, what stock was out there that you bought that would have been Zephyr so far?
Nothing.
Nothing.
So, like, there's that.
At least nothing I know of.
There are probably some tiny little penny stocks and shit out there, of course.
But, like, who the hell, you know, has time to research that, too?
There's also a pretty good chance that they're just going to go to zero anyway.
Whereas, like, you're just as likely to get a 30% retracement on a regular stock as you are, like, Link or something.
Oh, yeah.
And then, not only that, but you have to wait forever, too.
Yeah.
Unless you're playing with leverage again.
So, then, now you're playing that game.
But, so, the word movements are going to crush you as opposed to, I feel like the opportunity cost is so much higher in this space than it is in the traditional space.
I don't know.
Like, the chance we go back down to $7 Link is whatever.
But, like, the S&P 500 goes down 40% on a...
Massive, like, international drawdown is probably equal chance.
And the chance that it rebounds as quickly as Link does is very small.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, yeah, even if you have a drawdown in crypto, it's likely to recover faster.
At this stage in the market, at least.
So, I think, yeah, I'm pretty comfortable with the crypto bags at the point, at the moment.
Yeah, I mean, Zeph has a very, very classic early, sort of early curve, too.
Like, you know, going from what, like, I think when, what is it, been a couple of weeks now?
Like, maybe bought it, like, six-ish or something.
And then, like, having the thing kind of take off, which, you know, all of these, like, small caps were taking off simultaneously to some extent.
Like, you know, it's like following the CASPA wave and one after the other.
So, people are now, like, looking, what's the next CASPA?
You know, what's the next, you know, whatever.
So, like, they're going down higher risk to, like, find little gems and things.
And I think timing was right for that.
I think it had, like, you know, and I just guessed, too, by the way.
Like, it had already gone up from, like, two to six.
I just aped in at, you know, whatever top price.
I was like, I don't care.
I figured, like, by the time I pick it up and Bruce picks it up and a few other people, it's going to go up no matter what anyway.
Because, like, we tell everybody, sort of, it's like, it's fine.
And so, like, I trust in our ability to sort of, like, reach people.
And that's enough for me to say, like, okay, at that market cap, who cares?
Just get some.
And then, like, we can spread the word of it if it's interesting or good.
Like, at the time, I'm like, up told me to buy it.
I'm like, here, okay, fine.
I'll buy some.
And then I realized, wait a minute, this is actually pretty good.
Up is right.
Like, this is great shit.
So, that gave me the conviction to hold on to it.
And which probably the same thing that happened to a lot of people.
And then, like, you know, it goes up to, like, 52-ish or whatever.
And then it retraces to about 30.
Typically in a bull market, like, if it's a larger cap thing,
you know, like, take Bitcoin, for example, from, you know, up to the 2017 bull run.
I think it had, like, seven or eight, if I can't remember exactly.
I used to know all this stuff by memory.
But, like, I'm losing it now.
But there used to be, like, there was, like, seven 40% drawdowns on the way to the top
at 20,000 BTC back in the day.
And that was, like, a pretty classic move for a bullish environment.
And the same in the stock market, too.
Even stocks like Apple or whatever, 20% to 30% drawdowns are fairly common in those type
of environments.
In a BTC environment early on, like, that was, like, more of a, by then it was almost, like,
third cycle technically.
It depends on how you, like, define cycles.
But, like, if you use pi cycle theory, you know, you're probably in the third or fourth
cycle by then.
Anyway, but in those cycles, you'll tend to see something like 40% retracements.
In a coin like Zeph, I think it's rational to see up to 70% retracements as normal.
But the thing is, like, you might think, oh, I'm going to trade that or I'm going to, like,
you know, figure out the timing of that shit.
Good luck with that.
I mean, like, the reality is, is, like, you won't know what the top is, so you won't
know what, like, when to sell anyway.
Like, did you know it was going to go to 52?
No, you didn't know it was going to go that high.
Maybe it would have gone to 100, right?
Maybe it would have gone to, you know, 200 on the first run up.
How the hell do you know?
You won't.
And so what will happen is, like, you'll end up fumbling the bag.
You'll say, oh, they went from six to, you know, 30.
I'm going to, I'm out of here, man.
These pumpers, they're going to just, like, you know, whatever, like, they're going to dump
on me.
And so then, like, people exit at all sorts of levels, and it'll almost never be the
right level.
And then, remember, like, if you sell at 30 and it goes to 52, then what are you going
to do?
You're going to buy it back at 30?
No, you think you're smart.
You're going to try to buy it back at 20.
So guess what happens?
It doesn't go there.
Now you're, like, buying higher.
It's just idiotic, the whole concept.
Like, so on these type of high volatilities, like, I don't try to trade these things.
I mean, like, and I find my, I think I'm a pretty decent, like, chart artist
or whatever, like, you know, I've been doing this for a long time, and I can't
even predict what the fuck's going to happen.
Why in the world would I want to, like, trade the thing?
It doesn't make any sense to me.
So, like, at most, like, you know, probably, like, a safe play for these kinds of
things is more dip buying.
Maybe add a little bit to the bag if you feel like, you know, ooh, I have to push
a button, or maybe, like, I have to take advantage of the fact that, like, I know it
can reach 50 now, right?
I know for sure it can reach 50 now.
So, like, you know, the odds it's going to go back to 50 are practically for sure.
Now all you're doing is gambling between how low it's going to go in the meantime.
And so, like, yeah, I mean, if you're at, like, you know, when it went to, like, 30
bucks or where it is now, 40, like, it's fairly reasonable to sort of pick up some
on dips.
And just, like, you know, if you feel the urge to push a button, right, that's the
thing.
Like, I think some people have the, like, I know some of us, like, hutch down there,
or, like, you know, or, like, I'm not hutch, like, lucky down there, or hutch, like, some
people, like, and ourselves, we just want to push something, like, like, just, like,
tickle the itch or something to push buttons.
And I think the thing to do would be to take maybe, like, on the way up, you should not use
as much capital as you did at the very bottom.
Like, if you're chasing, you probably should be, like, allocating, like, 5% of the amount
you originally got and just, like, like, take nibbles at things.
But don't start, like, don't chase things up into infinity.
It doesn't make any sense.
Like, like, you have other stuff that haven't gone up yet.
There's no reason to be going and, like, you know, taking too much risk in one thing.
Besides which, like, if you take, if you buy too much of one thing, like, you're going
to panic when it goes down, because, like, oh, my God, I put my life savings in Zephyr,
because, like, Tank said it was good.
And then, you know, and then, like, I'm, now I'm, like, I broke because it went down 80% and
they're panicking because, you know, their wife's going to kill them or something.
And then, like, you know, then they sell the bottom because they don't want to lose that
last 20%.
And that's exactly when it goes up, right?
You know how this works.
Like, I think most of the people in this room understand how this market, these markets
work for the most part.
Like, and they don't get panicked so easily, which is, which is a good thing.
But I also think that's the reason because we are in a group that's, like, you're in a
group of, like, more savvy kind of, like, crypto people who sort of, like, maybe understand
that 40% drawdowns are normal, which is good because that means, like, we're not talking
about newbies here.
They're going to panic sell at the very bottom at 40, you know, at every dip.
They're, you know, most people are probably adding at the dips, not, not selling.
There will always be sell pressure, by the way, because, like, if someone bought at a dollar
and it goes to $50, people are going to freaking sell.
Like, that's just how life is.
So you shouldn't expect, like, you know, a straight up arrow, otherwise you're some kind
of imbecile.
Like, it's going to draw back.
The question is, what do you do when it draws back?
Do you panic?
Do you, you know, do you get a little bit more?
Do you kind of go nuts and you're like, ooh, I missed out.
Now I'm going to go full bore.
You definitely have all types, like, you know, but, you know, let's say I had not been in
this particular coin.
I just shut up today.
I'm like, hmm, let's look at this chart.
It went down to 30 and what is it now?
I'm not sure it is.
Let's see.
38 to 50?
Yeah, 38 to 50.
It was pretty quick, like you're talking about.
Yeah, like, if I was getting it now, I would secure some.
And then I'd probably like, you know, have a plenty of like cash left over.
It goes down more.
I'll just add to it.
But like, it already reached kind of 30.
That's a pretty good drawdown in a bull market.
In a bear market, it's a very different thing.
Like, you don't really start picking up more until something drops like 80% or more or 80
or even 90, quite frankly.
Like, you could pretty much like really start taking something seriously.
But in a bullish market, when new entrants are coming in and new money's coming in, like
the FOMO and the like crowd has just started, you know, ginning up, like, you know, the tornado
is starting to spin up.
That's, you know, 40% to 50% pullbacks, I think, are fair.
And it's like, you don't necessarily have to like pick a moment where you're like, I'm
just going to go all in.
And like, no, like even on pullbacks, it's like scaling and makes sense.
Like, if I'm willing to get some at 40, I should be willing to get more at 50%, you
know, retracement.
If I'm willing to get some at 50, I should be willing to get even more at 60, et cetera.
If you're not willing to do that, you're in the wrong game.
You shouldn't even be here, honestly.
Like, you have no idea what you're doing.
Like, that's the danger of like, you know, like thinking that this is the only thing that
can save your life or whatever.
It's just not.
And so like, you shouldn't go crazy.
You got to have like a measured approach.
And I think everything's fine.
But yeah, like I think, so like right now, like this early on, I didn't try to like, I
didn't try to sell the 50 or anything like that.
I just watched it go up and watched it go down.
I'm like, whatever.
I don't even know what the thing's worth.
Actually, I don't, I barely calculate it.
I don't go look at my wallet.
I don't care.
I just basically let it ride.
Because right now, like pushing too many buttons will just wreck you.
Like this early in the market, the last goddamn thing you want to do is fumble some
bag of some thing that you have that, you know, you just let these things ride at this
level is my opinion.
But anyway, have you been trading much for Cheetah?
Are you trying to play that game or are you just letting things alone?
No, not at all for this one.
I might add some if we see like, I think 25 to 20 would be a good range to add a decent
chunk and then try to play the ARB with ZSD, Zeph to just try to accumulate more Zeph.
Similar to like Luna, where you're just trying to maximize with the like Luna, be Luna ARB
when it would go up and down aggressively, try to maximize the number of Luna you end up
with at the end of the day.
There is the fee for swapping though, so it's like if you swap in wallet, there's definitely
some consequences.
Right, but I still think you should be able to pull off some type of ARB.
I haven't played with it at all yet, to be honest.
I'm just watching it go.
Honestly, like you said, I mean, 80 million is tiny.
It's like it could 10x tomorrow and we'd have, like there'd be no time to move in if
you were out for that amount of time.
Exactly.
Like the speed of, the bids can come in fast, like you said.
And not only that, but like the minute you break the prior high again, everyone gets freaked
out and excited and like, you know, starts posting all the time and shit, right?
So like, it's like you don't have much time after that usually.
Um, the other thing some you could do like in this type of market is if you're really
kind of concerned, wait a minute, is this thing just stupid?
Like, is, is just like, it's just an initial FOMO pump and it's just nonsense and maybe
it won't go up ever again.
You know, that's, if that's on someone's mind, then like technically speaking, you can, um,
wait till an actual breakout happens, you know, and then it surpasses like 60 bucks or something.
And then you could probably like ride the momentum.
But I think that's more for momentum people.
Like if you're like, I want to just make a two X and I want to go where I'm sure that
the, you know, the traction is upward and then I'm going to sell.
And that makes sense for those people.
I think for longer term holders, um, buying to the bottom is much more lucrative personally.
That's my, that's always been my sense.
Like, like all of my stuff is done fine because like everything I had from last year, I bought
to the very bottom.
Um, like, I'm not kidding when I say that, like, I am the, the, I am the floor price.
Like that's, who's buying the floor is me.
And, um, I do it season after season after season.
So it, um, it, it, and I think it's just simpler and more lucrative that way.
And you don't have to pay, you don't have to pay any leverage because if you're getting
the bottom, you know, off the bottom of these bear markets, I mean, things two X, like,
you know, in a snap, right?
Like it doesn't take long at all.
So at that point, it's like, I don't even need any leverage to have, like, by the time
the leverage people show up, my stuff's already five X by then.
So like, well, you know, why do I need to risk leverage?
So like, then I don't lose my coins and I don't have to pay for the cost of stop losses.
I don't have to pay for the cost to borrow.
I don't have to pay any of that stuff.
Right.
Like, cause basically like if you get stop losses that are hit, that basically means
that you paid to like, you paid to sell low, right?
That's exactly what you did.
If you use stop losses.
So when, um, what's his name?
Sam Bankman Freed's girlfriend said, oh, we don't use stop losses.
I'm not sure if that's what she meant, but like, I don't use stop losses cause I don't
actually use any leverage.
And I, and I scale in all the way to the bottom.
Why would I need stop loss at that point?
Like, I'm okay with those things going to zero.
So like if I'm buying to the bottom and it goes to zero, whatever, it's just, that's
just my, the risk I took for high gains.
And that's just all there is to it.
Like, that's my, that's my strategy at least.
So never allocate more than you can allow to go to zero.
And then you don't have to pay for a bunch of fees and things.
And by the way, some things will go to zero.
Like I've had some stuff like legitimately go to zero in the stock market too, by the way.
So, um, and stuff that was legitimate, like legit, you were like, oh my God, that was
going to be really good.
I remember like there's evergreen solar company, which is like thin film solar.
And I think I lost, like, I don't remember how much, but anyway, like a sizable amount.
And I thought it was a cool company making interesting things and it was made in America.
And for reasons that are not really fully clear to me, um, the shit hit the fan for them
long ago.
And like my stock literally went to zero.
I'm like, what the hell?
Like, it's actually a good product.
And, uh, somehow or another that they, they, uh, crash and burned.
So yeah, it's not just in crypto or whatever you can go to zero.
So always keep your, keep that in mind.
But I think this crowd, like we're talking about like crypto natives, we're used to the
volatility.
We don't give a shit.
In fact, that's the fun part.
If anything, we like to watch parabolic shit go up and things 10 X or whatever.
You're like, you know, like riding this cowboy type of thing.
And I, and I think it's fun and that's, so I'm here mostly for entertainment more than
anything.
Um, like otherwise, like why talk about your back?
You just click buttons, buy them and go away.
Right.
Like, it's just fun.
It's just fun watching it.
The experience is fun.
And then I think I just enjoyed the, you know, hanging out with dorks and stuff, but macro,
what's up, man?
Hey, how's it going?
How are you doing?
Good.
Do you buy anything new?
Are you playing any games?
No, nothing new.
Nothing new.
Um, yeah, no, just still writing this Zeph wave.
I think we've got a, we've got a nice pullback right now.
I do enjoy the volatility.
I really do enjoy the volatility.
Um, like I was saying there before on the last, uh, the last X stream that we had.
And did you, did you try to trade yourself into more or did you like, uh, are you just
riding the wave?
I'm just riding the wave.
Yeah.
I'm just riding the wave.
I've already got my, my initial bag that I put in taken out.
So I've, uh, I have actually taken out my initial, uh, investment.
So everything that's riding in my Zeph bag is basically free money, essentially.
Um, that's always a reason.
That's always a reasonable discipline.
Uh, I, unfortunately, I unfortunately don't exercise that discipline myself.
Like I have a tendency to like, I tend, I have a tendency to just like stick in what I
think I can lose.
And then that's, that's it.
Like, yeah, yeah, I get it.
I mean, I mean, what I got, I got five X on it and then I said, all right, I take out
my initial bag.
So I took out 20% and then the rest of us just riding the waves right now.
So, um, that's where it's at right now with my bag.
Like I, I got in at six, six bucks.
So I was lucky enough.
I was actually listening to it.
And I think, I think part of that, that rationale is why these things tend to pull back about
40%.
Like there's a reason why there's that.
There's a reason why that number is like a magic number.
Um, because there's, there's two people that are selling.
There's, there's people that maybe sold the top and maybe they, they, um, feel like they've
taken out their initial investment or maybe taken out their whole investment.
Then you have like people that after it drops about maybe 30%, they panic sell.
They're like, Oh my God, I made a 10 X and now I'm like fumbling this bag.
And now I'm like, I should have sold blah, blah, blah.
I know what happened last market.
So it's like disbelief phase people.
Cause we're early in the market.
Right.
So you're gonna have people that are just completely like in terror, you know, that, that, that,
all the winnings that they got, they're just like blowing them or whatever.
So those people, those people, I think sell a lot in the 30% range psychologically.
And then the price drops to about 40%.
I'm not selling because I don't believe in the project.
I'm selling just because I've got my initial bag out and the rest reasonable, reasonable risk
management.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the rest of it's like, okay, great.
I've invested that and I've got my money back.
The rest of it's pretty much a free ride.
Um, you know, so that, I mean, no harm in that.
I probably will reinvest if like, if, I mean, it's dipped, it's dipped quite a bit now.
So I was actually reconsidering should I like buy back in and I might do.
Um, but it's just so volatile.
It's hard.
A different, a different, like lower risk way to think about it would be like, okay,
like, so if it does really well and your existing coins are doing fine and let's say the thing
heads off to like three, 400 million market cap, let's say, which is very rational to like
10 X from here.
It's not very hard, actually.
Um, a lot of dumber chains, like, you know, moon very quickly than this.
Um, so I think it's possible.
And then you could then say, okay, well then you do the same thing.
This time you sell a chunk of it and then maybe you try to buy it back lower.
Right.
Like, so you don't, you can always increase your bag later.
It doesn't have to happen now where you have to reinvest what you've already taken out.
Like you had a plan already.
Maybe just stick with it.
Right.
Like why, why?
Cause you'll probably feel more comfortable at that point.
You know, you can sleep better at night cause you have your initial out of there and whatever.
Right.
Yeah, of course.
Of course.
Another, another huge factor is the fact that we're not even in.
Like the retail hype.
Like crypto phase and all yet where, you know, if you look at any of the, any of the trends,
I say, Google trends, Google analytics.
If you look at, you know, how often is crypto search as a search?
It's not that often yet.
If you look at the trends, I've been nowhere near this, you know, retail hype phase.
Yeah.
So, you know, as well, and you're investing in these, you know, and so you have to factor
into the price as well.
So for me personally, I'm just, I'm holding what I'm holding.
And I believe in the products that I've invested in right now so far and I haven't been holding
The reason, the reason, by the way, I was pretty certain that chain link was going to
continue upwards, um, is because the number of search hits for chain link were already
50% of its highest peak.
So like the number of, the number of new people that came into chain link and you know, they
can get them on every exchange.
So the number of new people that came in a substantial enough that I think not only did
it have a floor price around seven, six, seven bucks, like from the bear market for almost
a year and a half, but on top of that, you had this like conference where a bunch of new
people, I think YouTube and like searched it or whatever, but it reached 50% of its Google
trend volume of its all time high.
That's pretty damn good.
So my sense was like all these newcomers were going to put in a new floor price and now I
can ride that chain link bag to Valhalla.
I think that sucker is going to like probably easily, easily get back to all time high,
like with the amount of like search hits that I saw on Google trends.
Yeah.
I actually had a friend, I actually had a friend there who's, he's invested in crypto.
He's in property as well.
Like I am, but he's, he's invested in crypto and he actually asked me there last week, what
do you think about chain link?
So maybe there's a, another indicator for yourself.
Yeah, I think, I think I have a sense that like, and there's a lot of people that wish
this, but there is a sense that like chain link can have its ETH moment, right?
Like the, the very big run up to where it, it runs into like the very, very high market
cap range.
Cause I think it's like at the, like, you know, five, six or 7 billion market cap range,
if I'm not mistaken, I haven't looked in a while, but like the odds of it going to a
hundred billion market cap are quite high considering the other stuff that's in that,
like in that region as far as market caps.
So yeah, I think like since, since like there's very little sort of FUD against chain link,
everyone knows it works.
Everyone's pretty sure it's not going to zero by now.
Everyone's pretty sure that like a lot of innovations happening there and a ton of different
innovation leads to lots of different like events that occur like, oh, such and such bank
is adopting chain link or such and such project is connecting whatever.
And all of those people will tell all of their friends, oh, we're using chain link on our
thing.
So I think it's got that net, like it's got that like chance to go viral in a sense that
in a way that even during like 2020, when like the oracles came out and it was kind of
the first Oracle and stuff, even compared to that, I feel like maybe there's a bit more
like there's a bigger sort of user base and a bigger hype base and more innovations now
to make that really make its big moves is my suspicion.
But I don't know, it may at the same time, like chain link has a tendency to underperform
too.
So it's a pretty big gamble on my part to assume that it's going to go up as much as
I think.
But like, because a lot of other things like that could be very like, maybe not the best
place to put my capital at this early in the market for much larger gains.
But I feel like if like that can do maybe a 10x from here, I think that's very fair.
Yeah.
It made a 20 billion market cap back in 21.
And, you know, I mean, I can't see why you couldn't reach that again.
You know, and it obviously depends on the market.
Another theory I have is like, if we don't have a lot of newcomers, if we only have like
a lot of old guard crypto, because a lot of the newcomers, well, first of all, like the
economy is shit.
So like between inflation and everything else, maybe people don't have money to play around
in crypto.
Right.
So that's possible if that's the case.
And we live in a PVP environment where it's the same money, just changing hands and going
to different chains.
I think Chainlink, because of its reputation, has the potential to sort of like suck up liquidity
from things that like otherwise would have gone to other things, maybe Ethereum or whatever.
So I think that's the other theory I have is like in a bearish market, like that's when
utility matters.
And that's where the reputation matters, because you're selling to people that sort of know
what they're doing already.
Right.
And like what are the people that know what they're doing in a buy versus just like newbies?
And then if the newbies do come, like if we do have a full on bull market, fine.
Chainlink is on every exchange and they'll buy that too.
Right.
So if they'll benefit from a proper bull market, but in like a semi bull market, I think they're
more likely to shine versus a lot of other things in that kind of market cap range.
What do you feel about like these new cryptos that are coming in that haven't experienced
a full on bull market such as Casper for being one that's been like so bullish in this,
you know, bear market since 21?
And yeah.
And again, like Casper is almost like one bullish thing about it is, again, it's like it grew
in a bear market and it's probably like mostly just hardcore crypto people that are in it
mostly.
And that's good for like the early, that's good for like an early growth phase to do that
well in that type of system.
Now, like, is it a great thing to pick up now?
I don't know.
Like, you know, I admit, like I didn't listen to all the friends that said, get some Casper.
I'm not too worried about it now.
Like, I'm sure it has some upside, but at the same time.
Yeah.
Where it's at right now, where Casper is right now, it's like it can be up or down.
Like it really is.
Yeah.
It's too mid-market.
Yeah, it's broke past its five cent mark where it was like hovering around for a couple
of months and it's gone parabolic a little bit, touched off 15 and a half cents and pulled
back down to about, I think it's about 13 now.
I'm heavily invested in Casper and I had invested quite early, luckily enough.
Not as early as I wish, but, you know, we could say that.
That's always the case.
Yeah.
That's always the case, yeah.
You could say that about any crypto, but I do believe that the narrative that most
people, you know, in the Casper space, it is really genuinely a bit cultish, but that
cultish.
But that's good.
Is good.
For proof of work, proof of cult is everything.
Yeah.
I mean, look at Dogecoin.
I mean, you know, how cultish can you get?
I mean, if you look at Casper, like the whole thing is like, you know, everyone's so bullish
about Casper that's invested in Casper.
Like people are changing their Twitter emoji things to, I think myself included.
But like, you know, like this whole thing about Casper, it's got such a big community that
this is still currently in the bear market.
What's this going to be like when retail investors catch on and they, I suppose, latch on to that
narrative?
Even if we don't get, even if we don't get smart contracts, I mean, smart contracts are
in play for Casper.
But even look at Cardano.
Cardano did his massive run without any smart contracts.
And you've seen the run that it did at that time back in 1971.
Yeah.
Like a hyper cult is really important because if price is the strongest meme and, you know,
like price gives you the strongest attention because realistically, like would we be talking
about Casper now, if the price wasn't as high as it was, maybe, maybe not.
Right.
So the fact that we've been talking about it tells you something.
But since price is the strongest meme, the most important thing a crypto community can
do to make number go up is essentially diamond hands a thing into infinity.
Right.
That's exactly because once you have lost that momentum and things become like, you know,
the price action looks like anything else, then you've lost your opportunity because
what happens is, is usually once you hit higher and higher highs, like then your higher low
is much, much higher and you have a much larger user base that loves the project because everybody's
almost everybody has gotten rich.
Right.
Only the last few people that bought the top are like crying for some reason because it
went down.
It's like a top Dogecoin holder versus like the people that were holding Dogecoin for years
and years and years before last bull market.
So I think that like that higher, that higher low is really, really important.
And then like, then you can pick up the next cycle and kind of move higher.
But like, you know, coins that like blow off steam and like they can't actually make it
past a certain like first pump.
That's usually a bad sign.
So in many instances, like it's not the first or second pump that matters.
It's like, how does it do after that?
Um, and that's the highest risk period because like, you know how these things go.
It's like, if something's going to die off, like maybe it has one spike up, one spike down
and thing goes to like essentially zero and nobody cares about it anymore.
You know, you see that with like a bunch of junk meme coins, for example.
Um, but like if you have something that is in its sort of like second cycle, like right
now we are sort of like saw the very first parabolic move for, for Zephyr, for example, with
a little bit of pullback, you're building a base.
It's usually these, these parabolic moves happen with like seven moves upwards or so with
like, you know, six bases in between, you know what I mean?
Like it goes up, then goes flat, up, flat, up, flat, does it over and over again until
you like hit some like crazy, um, blow off top when everyone in the universe wants it.
Um, and you run out of buyers and then like you start seeing, um, you know, uh, selling
start to begin and then like, you know, panic sets in and all that kind of thing.
But yeah, it's like that base, it's like that base constantly kind of increases over time
because people believe in the project, they're buying, they're holding, they're not looking
at selling anytime soon.
They're like, keep, they keep buying the, you know, whatever project it is and they don't
intend on actually selling anytime soon.
Um, yeah, cause the cult, the cult people, a thing too, is what we'll do is they'll bid
it on each of these bases because like what will happen is they're making money every day
at work or every month at work or whatever.
And they'll keep adding a little bit here and there.
And so things tend to keep climbing for a couple of years.
Um, yeah, so that, that's like a good sign generally.
Like it's, it's a good sign if you have like all sorts of people that are so hardcore about
the thing that they've genuinely seem like diamond handed crowd.
Um, that's, that's an important early crowd to have in any of these projects.
Otherwise, like think about how many projects are out there that probably just never picked
up steam for whatever reason, maybe like luck.
Some, a lot of this is luck by the way.
Like it's like, it just, who happened to notice your project matters because like they tell
their friends and their friends tell their friends and it goes on.
And like the bigger, the early network effect, the better, but it's also like the, you want
people that like are fairly, um, in a sense, influential to pick up your project very, very
early and notice it.
Right.
Like, because they're likely to talk about it.
I've seen that with cubic.
That's happened to cubic.
A hundred percent.
That's happened with cubic.
Yeah.
People keep saying something about that.
Should I, should I have some of this thing or what?
Like what, what does cubic do?
That's a good point.
Yeah.
Cubic.
Um, yeah, it's like, it's a layer one, uh, crypto that, uh, it, the founder has worked
with, um, he, he was one of the developers in, uh, Iota and he did some work with that
and whatever else I haven't dived too deep into it now.
Is that a proof of work or what is it?
It's a proof of work.
Yeah.
It's a proof of work.
And, um, it's had quite a pretty substantial pullback now, huh?
So it's like.
It has.
Yeah.
I think it, it picked at about, um, uh, five, like 5,000 cubics or whatever that is
in terms of, uh, Bitcoin.
I'm not sure, but it has pulled back quite a bit.
Um, well, yeah, it's apparently there's quite a bit of hype on it on, on Twitter at the moment.
And it could be one of those narratives that might play out again, based on what you're
saying, like look, maybe, um, and I haven't, I haven't dived too deep into the, into the
It's currently down like 44% from the high and, um, it went down, it just started trickling
back up from like, after making an extensive, like, um, like downtrend.
And again, like, I don't know if Zeph's going to do the same or it's going to keep going up
or what, but, um, yeah, it's like, uh, it's, it's definitely done a pretty good pullback
overall.
I think it's probably went on almost 60% problems from the high, maybe something like
that.
I mean, it's one of these ones that's just all is on right now is all these sketchiest
exchanges.
You know, it's on this, um, safe trade, which is not safe whatsoever because I've actually
transferred some funds over there and it's been in a pending mode for over a week.
So I, um, I like the name, name safe trade.
Yeah.
That makes me very concerning caution.
I'd exercise caution.
I've got, I've got a bit of money there.
That's just in cyberspace right now.
That's, um, not doing anything, but hopefully not makes a scam, but, uh, yeah.
Um, but yeah, it's one of these ones where it's, it's on a, it's on like the very, the
fringes of, of cryptocurrency, like they're fringes of the crypto world, which it hasn't
touched the, like the mainstream or even like the medium mainstream.
Is it, is it CPU or like GPU or what is it?
Oh, I have no idea.
I have no idea.
You just aped into it because people told you about it and just whatever.
Yeah.
If it, if it does a 10 X and then start doing some research, like maybe it's useful.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a,
I'm quite a, a degenerative crypto investor.
Um, if I see something that I think that I feel that things might do so well, okay,
I'll, I'll put a bit of money into it, but, um, yeah, no, for, for the most part, most
of my bag is safe, but for, I, I, I allow myself a certain portion of my bag to just put
into degen plays.
Um, so that's what I do essentially.
Yep.
Yep.
That's cool.
Yeah.
If anyone else wants to hop up, feel free.
We're just kind of chilling.
Um, yeah, that, um, there was a pretty good, like 10% move on Adam or so after this, like
inflation reduction idea.
So the, the peak and max inflation for Adam's like 20%.
And I was actually enjoying that because through the bear market at like, you know, I got like
40% more Adam, which is quite substantial in terms of like, so substantial in fact that
like, even though the coin price is lower than like what I bought it at, my actual portfolio
is at least as much, if not more than what I bought it at.
So it's like, it's, um, it broke even as a result of the inflation, but, um, but the
inflation got cut like to a max inflation of 10% and the, um, so that does like reduce
some cell pressure.
It also has some meme effect where people like, Ooh, it's, you know, happening or whatever.
And there's less inflation number go up or whatever.
Really?
What most people don't realize is number goes up because of attention.
It doesn't have a whole lot to do with tokenomics, like, or especially, um, like the irrational
buying is usually not like mostly hindered by, you know, the tokenomics people don't
even research anything.
Like, as we've noticed, like, you know, they don't care, but anyway, so the inflation got
cut.
So whatever yield I was going to get on the thing has gone down, but so long as like the
memetic effect drives the thing to like 20 plus and then like onward, I don't care.
It's whatever, like the inflation's plus or minus as far as I'm concerned.
I was fine with it where it was, um, unlike a lot of people, but, um, that's cause a lot
of people don't know what they're doing when they're buying crypto.
That's, that's, that's the, that's the thing.
Like with a high inflationary token, like a proof of stake, what you have to do is you
must scale in at the bottoms.
You cannot be like, well, I'm just going to buy a whole bunch and hold it because the
thing is like some combination of inflation and like the downward pressure on the thing,
you have to scale into the bottom.
Otherwise, um, you're not going to be able to take care of the, you're not gonna be able
to take advantage of the inflation because in an inflationary token, like the bottom
really matters because like new, new people that buy the token and push the coin price
up, they're the, your exit liquidity in terms of the actual yield.
Right?
Like when people say like, who is the yield?
Um, yeah, it's like Ponzi-nomics.
Like the new user is the yield on an inflationary chain.
Um, the inflation does pay the validators and stuff, but at the same time, um, the people
that are investing in the thing, um, you really have to get to the very bottom.
You said, Adam, it triggered me.
Yeah.
What do you, what do you like or not like?
I don't know.
Well, it's not that I don't like it.
No, I like making moves on it.
Um, and right now I'm thinking maybe, did you hold it the, did you hold it the last couple
of years?
Last couple of years?
No, actually.
Yes, but no.
Um, but I bought it at like, uh, low $8, uh, back in 2021.
Okay.
That was, that was, it was my initial entry, but then like, uh, no, I don't have a stake.
I've been shortening the fucking thing all throughout the summer.
Um, well, since the spring, I've been shortening.
Um, and I don't know, like maybe I can get like a, like a quick five, 6%, um, gripping
this thing on the way back down.
Uh, I, I, I see it's still like on a, you know, on an uptrend, but I think I have some
room to fuck with it.
No, I closed it while I go back.
I closed it like, uh, maybe a month ago.
Well, I was like a week after I'd left that comment, you know, that maybe I should close
my short.
Um, I closed it.
That was about the, about the time that I've been like looking back at it and thinking maybe,
you know, it's risen up for, you know, for quite some time.
And I'm like, you know, what?
Maybe I could drop the hammer on it again.
As a baker, it's good that you shorted it because then like I can sell my, I can claim
my rewards at a lower level for less taxes.
And on top of that, I can buy low too.
So that, uh, so thank you for that support.
It worked really well for me.
I'm not, I'm practically card trading you.
Not everything.
Just, just, just the Adam's token, explicitly the Adam's token.
Yeah, for sure.
Coin.
No, it's fine.
More, more capital efficient, like more capital velocity is good.
What, what's not good is when nobody cares about it at all.
You want people to long and short the thing.
It's fine.
Agreed.
Yeah.
I got like 40%.
I got like 40% extra coins over two years.
Not bad.
Nice.
I did.
Got wrecked in the Luna crash.
So I've been looking at other ways to, you know, to make some dollars back, you know,
on the way up, you know, without adding extra, you know, liquidity for my bank account.
Yeah.
I'm already getting flayed by Coinbase with the amount of, you know, with the amount of
escape that I've been, you know, dumping into it.
I've been at it a long time.
We used to talk more about Luna just because there's stuff to do on Terra, right?
Like there was nothing to do on Cosmos.
Like you don't, you just hold the token, right?
It's like, what are you going to talk about?
So most of the conversations usually happen to be around like L1 shenanigans.
But like just a simple money token, like Adam, there's not much to say really.
So it's like, you don't have like big spaces about it really.
Anything you've been picking up, anything else, any strategies, personal strategies you're
going with?
Looking at Kava right now, they're upgrading to what?
But version 15, like entering into the next year, they're going to stop minting altogether.
So it's going to be fixed supply at that point.
What can you do on Kava now?
It's in the top like 70.
It's top 80 market cap.
Uh, borrow and lend effectively.
Um, it's got a, you know, it's got a, what's the core collateral there these days at Adam
or what?
Uh, I'd say so.
Um, you can use, uh, Adam as collateral, um, BNB, BTC, um, you know, wrapped and sent to
their chain.
Is there a place right now?
I haven't played on Kava.
I have a bag of Kava, by the way.
Um, I've had it for like the last couple of years.
Um, I don't remember why I have it.
Someone told me to get some and I did.
Um, and it went up, which is nice.
It was, it was a little bit like a little, little amount.
I think I used some Adam yield on it anyway.
Um, but like, is there a place where you can go on there?
Um, like take some existing Adam, leverage that and get yourself more Kava at this point.
Cause I think the, the downside for Adam is relatively limited.
So I'm like, I feel pretty comfortable with trying to play with it now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can deposit your Adam, um, then, uh, borrow some Kava or you can mint USDX or borrow, um,
stable coin like USDT, um, send that over to Osmosis and do what you want when it buy
more Kava, you know, with the, you know, with the stable coin or borrow it, you know, however
you see fit, uh, stake it.
What's Kava's details, by the way, in terms of like tokenomics, do you remember?
I would say there's, uh, their inflation rate is about like 20% or so, 24%.
Uh, I got to look back at it.
Um, it's been variable, you know, like back earlier in the year, I noticed it like as low
as like 15%.
Um, I checked it like a month ago and it was like 25%.
So it fluctuates.
I'm not sure.
Um, but I would imagine that, you know, after, at the next year, you know, it's going to
diminish because it, there's going to be no longer any inflation and anyone getting any
rewards is probably going to be through transaction fees and platform fees.
It's like the usual miracle of crypto, but like it has, um, it's like market cap 69 now.
And it's still 91% down from its high.
So like, it seems like a pretty reasonable gamble at this price.
Now, granted, like I picked up a tiny bag, like maybe I can't even remember now.
I'm just getting retarded maybe six months ago.
And, um, I just got a little bit and just like left it in my wallet there.
Um, I hadn't really thought about it since.
I think I picked it up on osmosis, deposited my wallet and just left it there.
Um, hadn't thought about it.
And I think it's two X since then, but I, but like, if, if it's got interesting stuff
going on, like you say, um, do you think it like, what kind of potential you think it
has like going back to prior highs or somewhere in between or what?
I'm hoping it goes back to prior highs.
That'd be, that'd be really fucking nice.
Um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you know, take any, uh, keep my bags based on what they're
building there.
Do you think it's likely or like, what's, what's your jet?
Like, what's your like view from above on this?
Like, do you like it?
I like it.
I like the, I like the utility of it.
Um, I like being able to do what I do with it.
Um, I, I don't give as much of a fuck anymore about where it's price could go.
Like if it's, you know, if it moons, then it gives me more collateral to, you know, to
fuck around with.
Um, now I'm playing it safe now, you know, just like borrowing stable coin.
Um, I'm pairing that stable coin back to, uh, you know, back to Terra, you know, with
their capital, um, providing liquidity and trying to get some, uh, capital rewards and
actual rewards without buying the shit.
And yeah, that's the other question.
It was down though.
Go ahead.
I'll take that.
You know, I'll, I'll remove my liquidity and, uh, you know, close my, you know, close
my position.
So right now you're LPing to get like a bit of Astro.
Yeah.
Astro Wars.
Probably not a bad play overall.
Um, yeah, I don't think, I don't know if I, I used to have quite a bit of Astro and
when I checked lately, I'm like, I think I converted to Luna at some point, like the
Luna V2.
I don't think I have it, but right now Astroport on Terra, is it functioning right
now or no?
So, as I've seen it, I don't know.
Um, I would imagine.
So, uh, you know, people are voting for, you know, rewards distributions.
Uh, they, they're doing microns and whatnot to Neutron and such.
Yeah.
Where are you using, what's that?
On Terra?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, but the liquidity is acceptable there or what?
Like, what is it now?
That's part of trading the Astro token?
Yeah.
Like I tried to convert some Luna to Astro today and it said like liquidity, you know,
unacceptable or something at the bottom.
And I'm like, okay, what's going on here?
Damn.
How, how large are you?
Not large at all.
Like, like, I mean, just like a tiny little amount.
I was just, you know, plugging in some numbers, like putting a thousand Luna on there and see
what happens.
It still has fairly high, um, like, you know, the, the slippage fees and whatnot.
It's like 3% or something.
Seemed, seemed, seemed kind of ludicrous.
I'm not sure what's going on there.
Anyway, it's going to probably try to get it through TFM.
Maybe, uh, they have better, you know, better routing to get that, uh, get that through Astro
port.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Maybe they got, they got some backhand deals or something to get lower fees.
So are, are the Astro port like capable?
Is it only on Terra or is it also on Neutron and other places?
What's going on with, like, yeah, they've, they've been migrating over to Neutron.
Um, I, I imagine they're going to expand to as far as, you know, as far as the rest of
the cosmos goes.
But currently the core Astro token, is it, is it still native Terra or is it like?
Yeah, I understand it.
Um, I know the, uh, I know on Neutron, they're going to have like the vote escrow, um, you
know, staked Astro.
Cause like, you know, when you stake Astro, you get X Astro.
And I imagine you, um, you'd be, uh, porting that over to Neutron, uh, for, you know, for
their governance.
And when you have that, have it over there, then you get the, uh, the whole escrow version.
And with that, you know, they're, uh, talking about, you know, giving boosted rewards for,
you know, uh, the actual locking that, you know, that comes with it, uh, as far as like
a, like a two, two week unlock period.
One, one thing's for sure.
Their, their site looks really pretty now, like the little menus and the little graphics
and shit.
Very cute.
I like it.
Yeah.
Before I make any, you know, my trace, I look back at the pools to see what kind of
liquidity is going on with it.
If it's, you know, if it's in the red saying it's a liquid, you know, I keep that in mind,
you know, I'll, I'll consider, you know, making some trays on the drip, making some
spots on the drip so that I don't, you know, get hit with slips like you're talking about.
Which is not a big deal if like the upside is still really good, but you know, it's, it's
hard to tell.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I don't know, like, um, Astro is always like kind of plus or
minus after Terra crash.
I know they got a substantial emergency allocation from Terra because I was one of the ones that
gave it to them, like, but, uh, uh, cause I was on that committee or whatever, but, um,
I don't know.
I just hadn't played with it much since then.
First off, there's just not much to do there, right?
Like, what were you going to trade?
Um, you know, there wasn't anything really worth messing with.
So I think, uh, yeah, I'm providing that liquidity just to get, you know, just to get
my entries for Chapa and Astro.
Um, and at some point I'll probably switch over to just, you know, providing liquidity
for Luna.
So what did you put in there?
Stable coin?
Yeah.
What did you employ?
USB-C and, uh, solid.
Okay.
Uh, that's the, uh, that's the stable coin for, uh, for Kappa Pult.
And as far as I'm concerned, it's like, it, it, Kappa's like, and this is a poor, poor
comparison, but I'm, I'm equating at the, at this current time, I'm equating Kappa to
Kappa such that, you know, Kappa's USDX, you know, that's their stable coin.
When you provide, you know, um, BNB, BTC or Kappa to make, uh, USDX, um, I think it's,
you know, currently 94 cents on the dollar pairing that over, you know, with, uh, I usually
swap it to stable coin and send it over to, um, to Kappa Pult, not the Kappa Pult, but to
Astro Port to get the, uh, the Kappa Pult, uh, solid, swapping it over to that.
Um, when it, you know, when, when solid, you know, pumps up, you know, cause, uh, typically,
you know, might go ahead and I'll switch it back to, uh, to USBX and get that little arbitrage.
What kind of yield, what kind of yield rates you're getting on those farms?
Uh, I'm talking like 30, 30% right now.
So not bad on Astro Port.
Yeah.
Not bad for stables.
Cause at least we know that Astro Port's secure.
Like they've never had any issues.
Yeah.
You know, so if you're getting a reasonable return on the stables, that's not a bad play,
I guess.
I'm trying.
You've been doing it for a while now.
Being a little bit of a degenerate gambler.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of course.
That's just that part of it.
Yeah.
Risk is all relative to.
Yeah.
And it, and it's not like I've been doing this for, you know, for a while.
I've only been, uh, you know, monitoring, um, the, uh, the pool for, you know, for just
a bit of a time.
Um, Kappa has been making some, uh,
you know, some moves, um, they got some audits in play.
So, you know, since it's gotten on my radar, I've started looking at, you know, started
looking at the, uh, at the rates.
I keep an eye on spectrum protocol, you know, wondering whether or not the, uh, the team
comes back and, you know, seeing the, uh, the APRs on, you know, on their platform,
I look back at Astro Port to, uh, you know, to see what, what's legit.
And then it caught my eye.
So I'm like, all right, maybe it's, uh, maybe it's rather consistent instead of compounding
into the position, you know, um, I'll take the rewards in, uh, in Astro and Kappa along
the way as, you know, as the last thing I want is to, you know, throw my stuff in that,
you know, in the spectrum and lose my shit.
Like, cause yeah, where is the, where is the team spectrum team kind of disappeared,
kind of refunded by that spectrum, um, huge advocate last year.
Spectrum had a great product though, for sure.
Yeah, they did.
They were good at what they did for sure.
It wasn't their fault.
Like what happened to things, you know, there was protocol.
They've, you know, they've, uh, they've grabbed the torch, you know, and they've been
carrying it on, you know, but they're, uh, but they're AMP tokens.
So, you know, I didn't want to, uh, didn't want to concede, but what, what, what choices
one has, you know, when, you know, when the primaries kind of walked away, the important
thing, you know, like there's two things you have to make for, for two things you have
to have for kind of DeFi to work.
One is, um, a collateral that people believe in, whether for good reasons or not.
Like obviously Luna was that for, for Terra and, um, because of this sort of like tokenomic
mechanism, whatever, it was interesting.
So like plenty of people held it and thought it was worth like, you know, taking the risk
to hold it or whatever.
And then you have like some kind of stable coin on the platform.
The problem has always been like, how do you attract stable coin liquidity?
You have to give away like, like what's happening on Astroport right now.
You have to give away like some sort of, you know, inflationary coins or something to
sort of bring that initial liquidity.
So you basically are paying for liquidity by giving away some of your, your protocol
value in a sense to the, to the people.
Um, and that can be good or bad depending on what, you know, how you think about DEX tokens
and, you know, how useful those things are exactly.
But I think what you need to have is like, you need to have a collateral people want.
Um, so on Terra, for example, if, you know, Luna starts to regain, you know, some velocity
and people are wanting to hold it for some combination of the yield plus the, um, you
know, plus the number go up and possibly to borrow off it, then I think you have some
momentum to start building.
Um, and then like almost every layer one has some sort of like, um, stable coin minting
sort of game that they're playing.
Um, even if it's like over collateralized or something, um, like Kujira, for example,
or whatever, because if you don't have that, like, what are people going to borrow?
Cause there, a couple of things have to happen.
You have like a core L1 coin, like let's say Luna, you borrow off of it and you're going
to borrow what typically a stable, what are you going to do with that stable?
You're going to basically go and buy something that you think is going to go up more than your
collateral will.
That's usually the game, right?
And so you have to have two pieces.
You have to have a collateral people you want, that people want, and you have to have other
video game tokens people want.
Cause like, why are, why would you borrow off your collateral if you didn't think something
else was interesting?
Unless the only reason you were doing it was to borrow, to buy more of the primary coin.
The problem with borrowing to buy the more of the primary coin is then you just basically
get like a liquidation death spiral and everyone's unhappy.
You get enough people that are unhappy and you wind up with like, you know, nobody pumping
the chain because like their bags have gone down.
So what you have to do is you have to have people borrow and you have to have them get
rich buying other things that are interesting.
And if those other things aren't interesting, then like you don't get anywhere.
So like, I think that's the problem with layer ones generally, like getting that momentum
and having enough stuff to play with on the chain.
And I literally mean play with like, cause most of the things that you get are just truly
entertainment more than anything.
Like you buy them cause number is going to go up or you're going to gamble.
You can do some stupid shit with it.
Um, cause like how many real, like non-defi real world products are on most chains?
Not very much, maybe NFTs or digital products and maybe, you know, trading random, you know,
coins, but really like most of those dex coins, whatever, they're all just mean coins
indirectly.
Right.
Like they're just a means to an end.
And, um, so like in some ways I think the meme coin crowd actually is more pure than
a lot of defy crowd.
At least they don't fucking like make any qualms about what the point of it is.
It's like, you can layer, you can layer your meme coin in like some defy, you know, jargon
or something, but like many coins are just meme coins really at the end of the day, or
like at least 95% meme, 5% utility or of some sort, maybe some of that's incentive mechanisms
or whatever, but like, but the reality is like a lot of it's just memeology.
And I think there is a purity to that too.
That's why like, I think, um, I, I don't make fun of the meme crowd as much as I did
a number of years ago.
I think there is a certain sort of like intellectual purity to it.
I don't know.
Do you have any meme stuff, Matt?
I do not.
I do not.
I only have some doge.
That's it.
I'm not sure why I bought it, but we'll see what happens to it.
That's like, there's better.
Yeah.
I think at this point I might trade that for the price action.
Well, the other meme point I have, of course, Adam.
Um, so like, who am I kidding?
Right.
That's messed up.
Cause it is.
You're right.
There's nothing else you can really do with it.
You know, just stay.
Yeah.
It's the money and collateral of the cosmos.
I think that's enough, but like, but the rest of it's just memes, right?
Like, but BTC is largely a meme point too.
Like, let's not, let's not be kid ourselves.
It got to where it's, it got because we, we pumped the shit out of it with tons and tons
of posts on the internet and stuff.
And like, here we are.
So, you know, it, you have to have a good meme game for sure.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Like, I think a good cult's important.
If you don't have that, you're, you know, you're, you're really have to worry because
who's going to pump your bags.
If you don't have a heart diehard cult of like diamond handers are going to hold till
infinity or whatever.
You just, you're not going to go very far.
I mean, even, even like this is true, even in the stock market.
I mean, look like, look where Tesla's valuation is now.
Give me a break.
Like, get out of here.
Like, you know, like Tesla's a type of meme coin.
It like rides on Elon Musk and a few other things.
And yeah, they make cool shit for sure.
But like, does it need to be valued?
Are there no dividends on that stuff?
What's that?
Are there no dividends on that stuff?
No, no, not well, not, not much.
It's tiny.
I think I don't, I didn't even look if there is some, it's very little.
Yeah.
Well, shit.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
So like, you know, like you can, I think those are things you can ride the pumps a bit,
but like, you know, you have to be very, very careful of buying, you know, relatively rich
valuations in a, in a bad economy and stuff like that.
Right.
Whereas straight up meme coins, like, you know, the AMCs and the, and the like GameStops
and stuff like that was very fun.
Like, did you make any money off those by the way?
I did.
I missed, I missed Jimmy, but I did well on AMC.
Um, like I, I, I did, uh, it was very funny.
Like, so like, here's how it went.
I think I bought like AMC, like four bucks and I sold it about 20.
The thing proceeded to go on to like 80 or something, which is fine.
Like, so I made, I made a good multiple.
And then I think I took all of that and I dumped it into Voyager, which is the exchange
that went up a lot.
Um, and then of course it went to zero.
So I lost a lot of money anyway.
So like, this is very funny.
I did really, really well on AMC.
Um, and actually funny thing is like, I like AMC movie theaters and like my mental model
was not because I got into it.
It was some sort of meme shit.
I was like, I'm going to save these motherfuckers.
I'm going to make sure that movies can be watched by generations to come in this kind
of theory.
Right.
So I went and bought a lot of AMC stock just to sort of like support the thing to some
extent.
It wasn't really like, I didn't expect it to be like, I didn't expect it to go into
meme territory.
It happened after I bought it, believe it or not, which is really strange.
Like talk about luck, man, like buying the bottom of a meme stock without realizing it
with substantial size and then going and buying Voyager stock and losing all of that
anyway, it's just, just as such a joke.
It's very funny.
I had to pay, I had to pay the taxes on it.
Like, like, so I'm actually net negative in a sense, cause I had to pay tax on the
gains on top of that.
Like, it's just pretty pathetic.
Damn.
The way you describe it, it doesn't sound funny.
It's whatever it's like, you know, I play around with stuff like this from time to time.
It's cool.
Some things go up, some things go down.
It's just what it is.
You have to have a good, you have to have like a, like an easygoing mindset about this
sort of thing.
Otherwise you just get worried about stupid shit.
Like it's just, it's just all one big video game to me.
That's all it really is.
It's just, it's just, it's just, it's just like you, Sepi.
No, but it's just zero.
It's going gray by the fucking week.
It's probably.
Yeah.
Cause I, uh, you know, I ended up buying a house, you know, cause I thought my, uh,
my Luna bags were going to hold me.
And, you know, I was sitting there, uh, dicking around on trading view, working on, uh, you
know, some indicators.
And by the time I, you know, I finished my indicator and the shit just like turned fucking
red when I activated it, I was like, Oh shit, I shouldn't be in this market right now.
But by, by then I was already fucking down.
I was already down.
USP had already fucking deep head.
You know, my down payment, I had to, I tried to pull my down payment from anchor protocol,
you know, for the house.
I had to, I had to send it to osmosis and ride, um, an atom pump, you know, 13% in order
to, in order to get my fucking dollars back before I could send it back to Coinbase and
then ban from Coinbase.
The crazy thing was like, even though my sort of like, um, the shenanigans with AMC and Voyager
went poorly, the Luna, on the other hand, I got just like unusually lucky.
Cause I picked up most of my Luna about five and I happened to be like, you know, getting
confetti on prison protocol.
And I had the liquid staked version of the, um, was remember when there was like a Y Luna
and a P Luna or something.
I had like all of it.
The refraction.
Yeah.
I had it, um, largely in the Y Luna component and like, I was just like raking in whatever
yields or whatever that was coming from that, you know, Ponzinomic system, which is a lot
of fun.
And it's just so turns out that like, because I wasn't staked, I actually was able to sell
my Luna on the way down.
So like I was watching it and watching it and go, Oh, look, maybe, you know, I threw some
capital at the, the UST peg to try to like, you know, like help protect it or whatever.
And then I'm like, okay, this is not going to happen.
Like some of the people that were supposed to help protect the peg didn't actually like
execute.
And then on top of that, it became known that Alameda was like, you know, creating
fuckery.
So I'm like, okay, all right, fine.
I'm going to sell this Luna.
So I was, I don't remember what exactly what price I got out of it.
It must've been like 45 ish because what happened was like, I think it was like $55 Luna on the
way down that I was like, okay, um, I've got to do something here.
And the, the way it worked was like, it was why Luna had a very steep discount to sell
it because obviously there was panic selling.
Right.
So, you know, there was not that much like, um, liquidity to move things around because
you had to move to Luna and then you had to take that Luna and you had to then send
it off to, um, uh, you had to send it off to like an exchange to sell it if you wanted
to sell it.
And so I was able to, um, cause I got most of my Luna, remember it like five bucks.
So I'm still okay here.
And I was able to clear it after the first crash that you had got.
Yeah.
I got, I got most of my Luna at the first crash.
Yes, exactly.
It went to like 25 and then dropped to five and me and Bruce were almost same time.
Like right.
That's when we sort of got into that.
And like that's when Bruce's first like foray into crypto or something.
It's very funny anyway.
So we both kind of got in right around there.
And then, um, so on the way down, like, you know, the prism liquid state, normally the
extra protocol risks and everything else were like heavy, right?
Like you'd normally like worry that, you know, your, your money's going to go to zero if you're
in these secondary protocols.
But I just happened to be in one and it just so happened that like, um, I wasn't staked,
which I probably would have been otherwise.
And the people that were staked basically had to write it to zero because like, that's
how quick it went down.
But because I was in liquid state, um, I was able to sell.
Now I'd lost about 10, 15% of the value just on the cell because, you know, there's just
no liquidity there.
So lost a slippage quite a bit, but at least, you know, got something back maybe at $45 or
something like that.
And then I was able to send it off, um, and sell it.
And I don't remember what I did at that point.
I think I threw it in Adam or something or whatever.
I just, well, I think I just left it there anyway.
So that took place.
And then, um, when, remember when the Luna airdrop happened, so the Luna V2 people, if
we get an airdrop, it just so happened, the snapshot that was taken was like at the time
of DPEG.
And the weird thing was the P Luna people are like that had the principle bearing Luna only.
They didn't get any airdrop for some reason.
Um, only the Y Luna people did because technically you, you divided the Luna into two groups, right?
So for some reason, instead of like splitting it half and half or doing something else, they
gave it all to the Y Luna.
So I actually got the full airdrop on top of the fact that I exited.
So like, so like some sort of positive karma on my side, because I actually did okay there
compared to most people.
But, and I didn't have much at all UST because like I wasn't borrowing off of, um, I had a little
bit, like maybe I think 10% Luna was like, um, you know, I was borrowing off of it or
something.
So I probably lost some there as well, but I, you know, whatever.
But the, you know, interesting thing is like, I got the full airdrop as well and I still
have my airdrops, you know, like vesting to this day.
So I did okay there.
So like, like karma, like, you know, killed me on Voyager on Luna, I did fine.
So it's like, fine, whatever.
It's like a, kind of a neutral thing.
And I think you still do an airdrop from, uh, from prison when they launch.
Cause they haven't launched yet.
What's prison doing finally?
What are they decided?
No clue.
I think they're, uh, I think they're launching their own, um, their own mainnet.
And, um, you know, for everyone who was holding, I guess the, uh, you know, the P, um, the P
Luna, um, they're going to be, you know, airdrop one-to-one.
So, you know, check, you know, check your, uh, you know, check your bags, you know, try
and get an idea of your allocations.
Cause it's a good group to distribute, um, some, uh, tokens to for sure.
Cause like, these are, these are gonna be lucky on that one.
You know, it's, you, you have like Luna people are left in two
camps.
One is a group that like still loves the game and wants to get back in it.
And another group was like, okay, I'm fucked.
I'm out of, I'm out of this forever or something.
So like, if you do an airdrop, it's fine because a lot of people, I'm in the first
group, I'm in the first group.
My wife's in the second group.
Yeah, exactly.
So like a lot of people just won't claim their airdrop or the ones that will claim it
will be like, you know, diehard proponents of the protocol or whatever.
So yeah, if they, if they have an airdrop, I'll go claim mine if there is one for sure.
Um, yeah, they're, um, they're saying there's going to be airdrop and they're like for all
the, um, all the original Luna folks, you know, they're like, Hey, you know, what about
the, uh, you know, what about the original support?
Is you going to give us a, you know, one-to-one what's going on?
Um, cause initially their, uh, their roadmap was just to airdrop, like those who were going
to like buy their C Luna token on a Luna V2, um, or, you know, staking to their validator,
you know, and then for like every dollar, um, that they, uh, you know, that they earn
off of your staking rewards, um, you know, you're going to get like, uh, I guess one-to-one
or something like that.
Um, so a lot of the originals, you know, um, the people in your camp, you know, who
had, you know, put in the people and then got the wild and they started, you know, the
bitching and barking, um, in the discourse and on the, and on, you know, the Twitter
threads, experts, you know, saying that, Hey, you know, we, you should be, uh, you know,
throwing an airdrop for, you know, for us too.
And I think Hyperion was like, all right, you, you don't worry, say no more.
You guys are, you guys are covered.
So yeah, I mean, it was a weird decision.
Like I can understand that like, you know, P Luna and Y Luna were all from the same Luna.
Should you even, is it reasonable to get airdrop twice?
Cause some people kept both pieces, right?
So they couldn't, they couldn't actually give airdrops to both.
They should have probably just given, um, you know, half airdrop to P Luna people and
half to Y Luna.
Right.
And that would have been the end of it.
But like, I don't know why Doe or whoever, when they chose that, went that route, but
anyway, it, it, but there is all done in a rush, obviously.
So a lot of people were pissed for various reasons.
Like, I think it was just a, just a rush scenario.
That's all it was.
Yeah.
Some of the decisions were made.
Cause I know there was a second, uh, like a second wave of airdrops, you know, to try
and correct a bunch of mistakes for, you know, other platforms and protocols to make sure
everyone was all, you know, all covered.
Yep.
Yeah.
It was an, it was an interesting time.
Yeah.
I'm like, but I do think like, uh, Luna does have a chance to get, uh, back to oddly enough.
Like, I think it could readily get to like a $5 level.
Don't you think?
I mean, it's like based on where the app is now and whatnot, and you have like growth
of protocols.
So I think, uh, yeah, Luna is one of those that's going to be like the one that upsets
everyone when it goes up.
Like the entire crypto community is going to be like, what the fuck?
Why is it going up?
These guys are scammers, blah, blah, blah.
You know, like that's, that's how the narrative is going to go.
And I think that'll gin up a lot of attention.
And I think a lot of gamblers will go by Luna for that very reason.
Cause they know that like, Ooh, why, why is everyone hating on this thing?
Let me go get some, you know, like that's going to be a thing for sure.
As like earlier this morning, I was, uh, I was in the, um, I was in the spaces and it
was just like, uh, I guess like trad traders, you know, they were looking at the, you know,
at the tokens and they were watching USDC pump, like what?
200% this morning.
And they're like calling it tethered.
You know, they, they thought it was all, they thought it was something else going on.
Um, they're completely, uh, out, you know, out of the, uh, out of the loop on, you know,
everything that's, uh, that's happening.
Like, uh, with the USDC retag, um, you know, the USD 2.0 that's been, um, you know, that's
been announced with mint cash and the USDC bag holders are like the most like hardcore bag
holders there ever were.
It's just such a weird group, like strangest thing.
Never seen anything like it.
Yeah.
I know, I know Coach Bruce is like, um, is ripping on the mint cash team right now
on, uh, some of the rhetoric with their, um, with their recent thread.
Cause I think that's what caused the, uh, the massive pump because, you know, the way
it was articulated in the thread was that all the USD, cause they're going to be launching
a, um, a smart contract for a burn, you know, and according to, you know, how it was
working, all you have to do, all you have to do is attach a token to that.
It's one to one, you know, attach some sort of token to that.
And then it's like, you know, and then, you know, a bunch of people buy that because
it's the repug, repug coin or something.
And like, I don't know, it's easy to grift on that set, set up right there.
Yeah.
I'm not sure what they're going to use as the, uh, you know, as that counter, as that
counter token.
Um, but so far, you know, the narrative right now is that you pull out, you pull out your
USDC, you send it to their burn contract and they'll give you a new version of UST one-to-one
and it's supposed to be, you know, pegged to the dollar at that point.
So now people are thinking there's like a 99%, you know, discount right now.
So people are just buying USDC in mass to, you know, to get ready to send to the burn
contract to get one-to-one on the dollar.
And Bruce was calling that out.
It's kind of fuck right now.
I don't know if that's true.
No, you have like a bunch of people that if you say any kind of fud about that chain,
it's like, you have just this army of people that just hate on you for nothing.
So there's not like, there's no purpose in trying to like, um, like teach that group of
people, anything like if, if they'll just have to learn the pain for themselves, that's
all it is.
Same as like, same as like us owning Luna and USDC, right?
Like, like that group is just like, they're buying, um, long tokens or whatever for reasons
that are inexplicable.
Go, go for it.
It's fine.
But you know, the problem with that bag holder behavior is like, you'll miss a whole nother
cycle where all you had to do is like sprinkle a few things here and there and everything
like 10 and 200 Xs or whatever.
And then like, you're, you're holding some junk that doesn't make any sense.
Like, so there is an element of that.
Like, that's why people make fun of me for holding my Adam still, but we'll see how that
goes.
Well, it's, you know, it's the collateral choice across the cosmos, you know, there's,
so there is a valid point of, you know, involving it and using it.
Well, I have plenty of it.
So like, I can use it as collateral and like buy every random little thing and just kind
of just ape into everything if I want to.
So that's, that's a plus side.
So it's, it's a good, it's fine.
Having sort of like relatively sound money is a reasonable, like, um, concession for like
not having to like moon on everything.
So, but I don't know.
We'll see with this new inflation change.
Maybe that'll help in the, in price action.
I'm not sure.
Um, what really helps price action is a gigantic YouTube cult.
Usually like, if you look at Cardano, for example, like, like who all was talking about
it, like digital asset news.
And like, what's that guy named Ben something or another?
Um, I always forget his name.
Oh, Benjamin Cohen.
Benjamin Cohen.
Yeah.
With like, he got really popular.
Hey, everybody, thanks for jumping back into the cryptoverse.
Yeah.
He got really, we're going to talk about Bitcoin.
Some blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
If you like the content, subscribe to the channel.
No, exactly.
And then he, well, you've got the, the, the, the bull market support bands, right?
So like he has that whole thing going for him.
Um, no, it'd be, he's a nice guy and everything, but like, um, uh, yeah, he, he just somehow
built up like a very nice, like a gigantic YouTube following.
And with, between him and like, well, yeah, his math is great.
His math is great.
And he's got, you know, like a huge platform, uh, within his subscription plan, uh, that
gives like all these different charts and indicators, um, that are kind of outside the,
you know, the general purview of what he's getting, he's one of the few people that is making
an actual living on the so-called web three, um, drama, right.
You know, he's, you know, he's also providing it, you know, he's also providing a value at the
same time, you know, a little bit of a freemium model, if you, uh, if you will, you know,
through the YouTube and then just trying to, you know, some kind of conversion right
moving forward.
Between him and like digital asset news, like they definitely like boosted the, um, the Cardano
effect for sure.
You know, cause that was part of that.
If you remember like why Ado like skyrocketed as much as on, on largely vaporware, um, and
still hasn't scaled to any kind of rational speed.
So I don't, I don't know, like the Cardano crowd is pretty hardcore about it though, but
I don't know, I'm not sure what they're doing on Cardano.
It seems like they're having, yeah, I, outside of the Jed, you know, stable coins situation,
I wouldn't know either.
And it's not, I, for the time that I did watch Benjamin, like I did, I've never really
seen him, you know, like articulate the needs and the wise, you know, and the, the, the
reasoning for going for it, you know, for Cardano, you know, he would always, you
know, keep, he, he would always keep his focus on Bitcoin and Ethereum.
And I guess, you know, Cardano was like more of a, you know, just, you know, a gamble play,
but he never, yeah.
For, you know, the videos that I saw, I never, you know, I never seen him like, you know,
pitch the wise and, you know, and the, the thing about watching him though, is like, um,
using like moving average indicators or support bands or whatever he wants to call them.
And the trouble with all that is like, what he never did really well was actually tell
you when to buy anything.
Like, that's the problem.
You go on and on and on and on.
It's like, wait, are you buying something?
You're not buying something.
What are you doing right now?
Like, you know, like, so what happens is if you're below his bull market support band,
he's like, oh no, I don't really want to buy this thing.
Um, because it could go lower than that.
Like, you don't know what's going to go lower or higher.
I have no idea.
It's like purely like, there's no predictive value, but like he, there was times when I remember
like back when BTC was like around 16 K and he's like, oh, I'm being careful here.
It's probably going to take another nosedive down, blah, blah, blah.
And, uh, which, which tells me like his bags were not packed probably.
And then like, he probably had to buy like a significantly higher or something on the
way up.
But like, I guess the point is like the way he talks, um, he never really has any conviction
about what he's going to get or not get.
And I think those people are like interesting as far as like, they want to please the crowd or
whatever, but like, I mean, fine, but like, like, what are you convicted in?
Like, what do you care about?
Like, are you actually buying something?
Are you, or what?
At least the digital asset news guy, um, what's his name?
Dan or whatever his name is.
Um, I think he's in El Paso, I think.
Anyway, um, at least he, he'll, he'll be like, yeah, I'm DC into this one.
I'm DC into that one.
I'm DC into this.
And that's how I'm like buying my shit.
And I think his, his tactics were largely rational for the most part.
And I think he did pretty well.
Um, but yeah, like with, with Cohen, I never got the sense that he was actually, maybe his
channel is different now.
I'm not sure, but like, he never got the sense he was actually buying anything or that any
of that stuff was that he was talking about was very predictive.
I think like when you first get into charts and things, like you assume a lot of things
are a lot more predictive than they are, but like, what do you find his videos?
He does.
He does.
He has routinely stated that, you know, the charts, you know, the indicators that he has are all
lagging indicators, you know, so for a moment, there's, you know, one can only speculate
and he's, he would say dubious speculation, you know, as whether or not, like after years
and years, after years and years of watching things like moving averages and stuff like
that, and moving average crosses and whatever, I've just found that all they do is make you
late to the party and don't necessarily automatically assume that like markets going up automatically
either.
So you're both late and you don't know if it's going to go up, right?
This is the problem with it.
Yeah.
It's only a measure of sentiment at that point.
It's not a measure of, you know, and it's almost late.
It's not only is it lagging, but like the odds you're going to make a good buy at that
point are already sort of somewhat late to me.
Agreed.
I think the, the, the greater part of valor in the crypto space is like, if you're comfortable
buying a bag and you can write it down further.
And even if it goes down another 50%, you're fine.
Cause you don't, you're not intending to sell it and then if it goes back up, fine, it'll
make, maybe it'll do a 10 or 20 X, but like you didn't necessarily pick it after like compared
to where I buy these things.
Like by the time the crowd is there talking about moving averages and stuff, my bags have
already five X by then usually.
Right?
Like why am I buying like when only when momentum's back, I'm comfortable with my stuff going
down.
That's the difference.
Like if you have that comfort level, you'll do much better in this space.
Like if you like, cause that means either you've allocated too much and you're too uncomfortable
with it going down, or you just don't know how to like, um, you know, you don't have
know how to allocate and hold.
I think that's more important than like all sorts of fancy indicators generally.
So that's why like, I've largely given up on trying to mess with a whole lot of these
indicators and just simply stick with mostly fib extensions and maybe some volume profiles
and that's it because like, all I need to know is like, what's my expectation based
on, um, velocity.
Like what's my expectation of like, you know, fib retracements and extensions.
And then I can just place some buys based on where we are on that, in that space.
Right?
Like I'm not, it's just like looking at the proportionality of a thing going weight in
an exponentially moving asset on a log scale fib extension.
Like where can I throw some buys in and then let them ride where I'm comfortable.
And then generally like in crypto, you can also say, well, you can do that really after
like maybe a 80 cent, 80% drawdown.
Right.
Cause like, that's fairly common even with BTC.
Like what was Bitcoin's, um, drawdown this time?
70% or what was it like to the bottom?
It's usually like a 60 to 70% drawdown.
Yeah.
I mean, this time I only bought BTC once it hit, um, like as it started dropping below 20k,
um, I got like first bought at 18, 17, 16, and I was prepared to buy all the way to 12,
which is about the mining cost of it.
And, um, whatever I got, I got.
And then, then I sold that at like 30 in my trading bag.
I kind of sold that for like around 27, 27.
And then I bought like mostly, um, like chain link and a few other things with it.
So like, I'm doing much better having done that than had I held BTC specifically.
Um, because like once you've kind of gotten to a certain level, the ROI is simply not high
enough, even if it were to go to prior high to just simply like, not for a trading bag,
at least if you're holding longterm, it's different story, but like, that's a different
thing.
But for just trading purposes, I bought, you know, so I can intentionally sell after a
certain amount.
And I figured like, actually my Fibus tensions went to 37.
Initially I thought to myself, I'll sell at 37.
But then I looked at the charts of all the alts and they were completely wrecked and they
were flattening out.
And I felt like, okay, you know, let's say I held BTC from 27 to 37.
It's not that big of a multiple, but if I grab the alts now, like probability of a 2X,
even when the market just slightly goes up is very high.
And that's exactly what happened.
So I was able to kind of like capitalize on that, as opposed to just riding the Bitcoin
all the way to 37 where it is now.
But it hit exactly each Fibus extension and did so like, and hit resistance at those levels
and perfectly like played there.
Right.
Because like a lot of crypto whales use Fibus extensions.
In fact, that's all anyone really uses.
Which is why, like, which is why Bitcoin always hits Fibus extensions almost perfectly.
It's just like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
So it's like, there's no reason not to know how to use that.
All about the 618.
You know?
What's that?
I said it's all about the 618s.
Yeah, exactly.
You don't need to know very much really, huh?
So yeah, like the first extension for BTC after the next high is right about 150k, almost
on the dot.
And that's a probable level, right?
Like that would be like a 5X from here or whatever.
That's very reasonable at this stage.
Assuming that you can even, there's enough liquidity to make it move that much.
But hey, Michael, what's going on?
Which could be implied by, you know, a move like a spot ETF being approved.
Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
Sure.
Which we can already see right around the corner.
It's like when gold ETFs came out, right?
Same thing happened.
Like a 5X.
I think it was like 200 to 1,000 gold, I believe, if I recall.
Now, Benjamin, he's not like a, you know, he's admitted that he, you know, he's not like
a trader of sorts, but he likes to, you know, follow whether, you know, if someone were
to buy something, you know, where are they in, you know, in terms of the relative market?
You know, are you below the average price or are you buying above the average price?
I mean, like when you see Michael Saylor, you know, tweeting on his, you know, on his
MicroStrategy, you know, account, he says like, oh, I got this for an average price of,
you know, of like 24,000, 28,000.
So like now he's announcing to the world what, you know, what they should try and, you know,
aspire to, you know, if they're trying to, you know, gain in entries, like, hey, you
know, that's what their average price is.
You know, are you writing, you know, on an average price similar to that?
Or did you buy, you know, and are you sitting up at like 60,000 still waiting for that to
be the average price, you know, moving forward?
You know, it's about time-weighted average price is also kind of a, you know, a reasonable
method.
You can combine like a TWOP type of idea with like a volume-weighted average, like VWOP,
you know, not VWOP, the volume profile kind of concept.
Um, I think you can blend a couple of these together and get a pretty good sense of when
like, you know, a bottom is going to, you know, form.
Um, like in particular in crypto, by the way, if you're interested in indicators, like Matt,
do you, if you use the volume-weighted, um, the VPVR, the volume profile over the visible
range, what's interesting about it in the crypto space is, um, wherever the longest bar is,
like, you know, in the, in the recent history, um, there is a tendency in crypto for the price
to fall right below that.
So like wherever that is by even lower than that, because the, while you might expect like
that might be the support level, it usually isn't because I think most people put their
stop losses and they put their leverage positions right there in those high volume areas because,
you know, everyone's trading off the same charts.
They think everyone's, you know, everyone thinks they're like some chart genius or whatever
and playing on leverage and stuff.
So all you have to do is wait for those people to get wrecked and usually liquidations happen
right, right to below those VPVR levels.
So like, it's not when you hit those levels or you buy, it's below that by about 20% or
It's really pretty, pretty predictable.
Like it's very, um, and I think it's just like, and the more leverage a specific coin has,
um, like, or, or the more plate exchanges where leverage is available, the more likely what
I just said is going to be true.
So like, you know, you, if you think about like a chain link or an atom or something like
that, where you can get leverage anywhere against it, you're more likely to have like
leverage positions that are going to get hit.
Their stop losses are going to hit when stops are usually like what, 10%, maybe 15% below
the price.
So if the price falls to those levels, you're going to fall another 10%.
That's where I get the 20% from below VPVR.
It's a pretty straightforward way to look at it and very easy to like identify.
And here's the thing, Matt, like if you are just simply like watching a bunch of different
coins, it doesn't matter which one hits those levels.
Just pick that one, like pick the one that's wrecked.
If this chart is not wrecked, don't bother.
Like that's, that's a good way to, um, like maybe perceive the world in a way.
And, but you can only like do that if you are very attentive during bear markets, the people
that leave during and don't know like what bear market, like, you know, imagery looks like
on charts, then what happens is, is they, um, they, they don't, they're not able to take
advantage of any of that bear market timeframe, which is kind of, uh, which is bad.
So, um, cause that's the, that's the most likely place to get gains.
Yeah.
Michael, go ahead.
Um, I come from like a very, I guess like traditional trading background.
So like crypto is, um, kind of like a wild west compared to like, you know, standard,
like tradify stuff like, uh, ES futures, for example.
Um, and like a while back, you mentioned how you use fibs to try and, uh, set targets for
coins, like while they're mid squeeze, um, do you use that only for like the major coins,
you know, like BTC, which have like those, you know, big whales or like, would you use them
for like smaller coins as well?
Or like, well, I think, I think all indicators of all types, um, if you're going to use them
for any kind of predictability, it's much more likely to be useful, um, with some price history,
obviously.
So like, if you have a nascent thing, like we're in Zephyr right now and we're buying
this thing and like, it's had a, had a big move upwards.
Um, the, like, soon as you get your first swing low, I mean, swing high off of a swing
low, like you can basically start drawing some fib extensions and start like planning
things out a little bit.
Cause the way fib extensions essentially work are like the bigger, the jump between your
low and your high, the more like the fib extensions extend out further.
And it's sort of like an indicator of like human interest.
Uh, it's an indicator of how much capital humans are willing to throw at this thing.
And in crypto, I always use log scale charts because, um, like log scale charts give you
a better sense of how high things can go to the upside, but also can give you a better
sense of how crushingly low things can go down the low side.
Because on, on linear scales, like you don't really appreciate how high these things can
Like in stocks, you're like, Oh, my stock went from $10 to 20 over like five years.
I'm really, really happy.
You know, whatever.
But like, you know, in crypto, it's like going from $10 to, you know, a hundred dollars over
the course of months is not unexpected.
And, um, when you do fib extensions, um, it takes into account the velocity of those moves
and then like predicts out the next dip, which tends to be quite deep and also the next
extension, which tends to be quite high.
Um, so I think that does a good job identifying.
And the thing is like fib extensions are interesting also in that, like, there's no magic to the
way that they're, um, developed.
Um, there's no like extraordinary amount of skill you need to understand to like put them
together.
And, and I think they, they model human behavior, um, pretty well in terms of like, you know,
what does a human being consider a rational discount on a token?
Um, and when will FOMO and psychology sort of set in?
And on top of that, you have like a bunch of people who are using fib extensions in the
crypto space, especially large whales that I think, um, what ends up happening is it's
like some of it's self-fulfilling prophecy.
Right.
So, um, you know, how much is it really predictive and how much is it prescriptive?
I don't know.
It's some combination of the two, but like it has a better, I think, predictive effect in
terms of where things are going to go on the upside past prior highs than practically
anything else.
Cause think about it, like what other thing that you have as an indicator gives you any
concept of where the top next top is going to be.
Nothing else does this.
It's the only roadmap you have is fib extensions.
That's it.
And that's all right.
There is nothing else because fundamentals in crypto.
Remember like the price movements in crypto are like 90% meme and like 10% utility, right?
Like, I mean, realistically speaking.
And so you have to think like, but there's a beauty to that.
The beauty to it is, it is then like the movements are based on human psychology as opposed
to say, um, like some fundamental, like, for example, if I have a dividend earning stock
and, or like, and, and its price to earnings ratio is a hundred and its dividend yield is 1%,
you get a sense that like the thing is topped out because the fundamentals based on what they earn
and how much dividend yield you get, like, they're just, there's just not that much upside.
Right.
So the problem with utility is utility creates a top for a, any kind of asset.
And when you don't have utility, you get magic upside.
Like, so in crypto, it's the other way around too.
Like the utility creates the bottom for the, the, the, the crypto.
So if it's like really useful for some reason, like, like Zeph is one we're in, it's like a privacy coin.
And like, you know, it has certain utility that like other things don't.
And so the, the utility tends to sort of like create a bottom for the price.
Um, I'll give you a great example.
Like Adam is a coin for the cosmos and it's basically the money of the cosmos and a collateral of the cosmos.
So from the high to the low, it actually dropped less than a lot of other coins in crypto.
In fact, it beat most things in that regard.
It hasn't really picked up steam yet and gone crazy, but at the same time, like as a store of value, it worked well.
So utility, whatever that is, tends to create a bottom in, in crypto, but it tends to create a ceiling for the top.
So for example, like if you create an NFT, like if you create an NFT with yield, for example, that's a mistake because like at $10, let's like, like at $10, maybe the yield is 5%.
And at $20, the yield is only 2.5% and et cetera.
And to the point where the new buyer is like, well, why do I want this thing?
It looks like it's too high already.
Right.
It like creates, it creates metrics whereby you can judge that, you know, like infinity is not the target.
There's actually a hard cap on the target.
Right.
Well, like at a certain market cap, I mean, if you don't have enough flow and like you have like, you know, high mining rates and all that, like the coin will stall out.
You know, it doesn't matter, you know, what fundamentals it has.
It will eventually just conk out and at a certain point just kind of do that whole death spiral thing.
Right.
Yeah, but the utility is brought in at the bottom so that where you won't conk out and you'll have your next lug up and your next lug up your next cycle is if the people are continually picking up at the bottoms because they feel like it's useful for some reason.
Um, so like take, for example, Monero, it's like 3 billion market cap and it is put in like each cycle.
It's put in higher lows each time.
Um, it hasn't put in higher highs because like privacy narratives are not that strong, relatively speaking.
But like if you got in Monero early enough, you're up, you know, you know, 30,000 percent or something ridiculous.
So it doesn't really matter if you get in early enough.
Uh, but yeah, there, there is like gravity that takes place if your particular narrative is not good enough to carry it to Bitcoin levels or whatever.
Like, so this season, like if you were to ask me like, okay, what's, what's about to break prior high and actually break prior high on the BTC pairing?
Like there's a few of them.
Like one of them is a fetch AI and it's writing the AI narrative.
Um, one of them is probably going to be chain link, although it's, um, like the odds it's going to break its prior BTC high based on what they've accomplished this last six months or whatever is, I think in my mind, fairly high.
So I have some conviction on a couple that are actually going to like outperform, um, you know, either on narrative or whatever in, in terms of coins that have been around for like four or five years, by the way, not, not, uh, I'm not talking about like micro caps and stuff.
That's going to obviously beat Bitcoin in, in an instant, right.
Within months, some of these micro caps can just moon.
I'm not talking about those.
I'm just saying like, you know, stuff that's been around for a while, how do you not lose momentum?
How do you not lose steam?
And how do you like go to a higher high and a higher low the next cycle?
Um, there's only certain projects that can accomplish this, I think.
So you're right.
Like a lot of stuff will lose steam and go into, into oblivion.
Um, and what, what I like about Zephyr in particular is that it's proof of work and, um, it has this kind of like interesting little hyper collateralized stable coin pairing, which I think is very useful at tops actually, because at tops people that want to can convert to the stable and then convert back to the Zeph on dips.
And so, and you can do that all in private and so that has a utility by itself.
And so to me, that's a flywheel effect that keeps people in the ecosystem without necessarily having DeFi.
And that gives it like a chance to pull off like a Casper, for example, where it's at three, um, it's at like 3 billion or something and really had a great run over the last year.
So I think Zephyr is another one where if you want like, like high upside, um, I'm in it for that kind of high upside, you know, whatever that is.
Um, but my allocation is like based on extreme risk, like, like assume it's going to go to zero.
And if it doesn't, yeehaw, we're going to write, you know, go to Valhalla or whatever.
So, I mean, like, like all like on those lines, I mean, you know, like for me, this space is a bit weird because, you know, like you said, it's very much like flow based and narrative based.
Like, you know, you, you really can't be like trying to, you know, make like fun, like fundamental plays at all.
Um, from what I can tell, like the best idea is just to try and, you know, hold a bunch of these coins, you know, like 10, 20, 30, um, you know, various sizes, you know, blue chips, these small caps.
And it's trying to spread the risk.
Yeah, I think, I think having different sizes is reasonable.
Like, I have things that are like top 20 things, um, top 30, top, like all the way down the list.
So I, I, um, just, but that's not like, but then again, like I buy a bunch of stock too.
Like I'm not, um, you know, like being just in crypto isn't quote unquote diversification.
Cause when everything goes down, everything does go down simultaneously.
You're not like it's, it's uncommon that some particular coin just keeps on going up, even though the rest of the market crashes.
It's just like, it rarely ever happens.
If ever.
That was Luna.
Yeah, that was going to be, that was going to be Luna except it went Death Star on us.
Yeah, man.
Fucking shit.
It was bear market resistant to a point where it was the bear market.
Oh, so great.
Because at the time, like, you know, people, you know, when everything started going bearish, people would sell them the dollars and they would sell for, you know, for the UST.
So it created that demand, you know, against, uh, you know, against Luna.
It was, it was a beautiful, ah, man, the flywheel effects.
Yeah.
The flywheel effects.
And then since then you've been looking for that flywheel again, haven't you?
Like you're, like you're salivating for that flywheel and you just can't find it.
Right.
No, that's, that's why I thought like what was interesting about Zephyr was like the, the coupling of the hyper, um, the extra collateralization, like the, the over collateralization making the, and then it's just a quasi stable coin anyway.
So that by itself is kind of whatever.
Cause like, really, if you look at other protocols like this, they didn't necessarily go up, but the fact that it's proof of.
Um, adds another little kind of like, um, meatballs to the sauce or whatever.
And then like the final dressing was the fact that it's privacy.
And then add on top of that, the team was anonymous and add on top of that, it uses a proven protocol like random X, um, which like, you know, same as Monero.
And that's been running since 2014.
And you add all these together.
I'm like, um, I don't have too many things to fight about it.
Like, like I would have been not as excited if the team was not, uh, if like, I have this sense that like, you know, like there's something about Terra where like, there's a lot of Luna centralization on, in the, in the hands of Terraform labs.
That bothered me the whole time.
And it bothered me that like, you know, if someone shot Doquan, my bag was going to go like get wrecked.
Cause you know, that's going to happen.
So it was always a very dangerous like play because of this like centralization.
And I think with Zephyr, I see way less of that.
And even if like, there's going to be high mining reward, high minor emissions for the next few years, whatever.
That's why I just got myself, you know, ordered a mining rig and just like, you know, play that game for a while.
And maybe I'll mine some more if it looks like fun, but like, it seemed like it had the right recipe for, um, like at least a Monero like growth of like one to 3 billion or something like that.
And like at those levels, I mean, if we bought it, like market cap 15 billion, who gives a shit, right?
Like, like it does well, it doesn't do well.
It like, it picks up steam past a billion dollars.
It doesn't pick up steam.
Who really gives a shit?
Cause you got an early enough.
It doesn't matter.
So I think it's early enough now that like, at least, um, you know, you don't have to expect perfection.
You can still do a really, really well, even if you get modest adoption, right?
Like, like, I like that, that, that sense it gives me that, um, you don't have to have it.
Like, you know, all the world's peoples don't have to use this thing for it to go up.
Only a modest handful of people that love it have to use it.
That's it.
Like it only has to have utility for a subclass of people.
And, um, and I think that group of people, the privacy crowd is definitely going to latch onto this.
Like, as they hear about it.
I see like on coin market cap, it's only on mechs.
Like, I don't really see it on like any other exchange.
No, it's not.
Which is good.
Which is good.
You want these things really early if you're going to bother at all.
So yeah, it's not listed very far yet.
Do you know how long it usually takes to get listed on like other exchanges?
Yeah, usually.
So there was a couple last week, a couple of my small exchanges that came on last week.
Um, usually as the coins get into the top, like 300, which is where it is now, um, you'll start seeing more.
Interest because like the fans of the coin will start like, you know, hammering those exchanges with messages like KuCoin or whoever.
Um, but yeah, like it's, it's highly probable to get listed in a lot of other places.
Once it gets past like the 150 market cap, which is not that far away, believe it or not.
This, these small market caps like get flipped by different coins all the time.
And I like CASP was a good example.
It's in the top 30 now and it was nowhere like what a year ago.
Right.
So same thing I think will happen likely with this.
Um, that's at least my, like, you know, general like theory on it.
Um, and so I kind of picked it up with that idea that like, as it goes up in market cap, attention comes in and it's exchanges try to list and stuff like that.
So, but the more organic the listings, the better, because if the team uses their team allocation, which there's a sizable amount, if they use that to then like supply liquidity for exchanges, you know, then you have different exchanges and shit dumping on you.
That's not very helpful.
So it's actually better to have these things grow organically, um, among diehard people who are willing to go to fringe exchanges.
That's actually bullish.
Like it's not a, it's not good if these things get listed like, um, too much on early exchanges.
I'll give you an example of some stuff that is like listed very early, um, on a lot of places.
Like if you, you can already, like, I think on launch or very close to launch, both Celestia, which is TIA and say SEI.
And these are both VC funded, like, um, they have a lot of like founder coins and whatnot.
Like it's very centralized ownership of distribution.
These kinds of projects got on Coinbase very early as like big, gigantic, legit, like highly funded properties.
And they probably paid for some of the liquidity or at least lent it to places like Coinbase and whatever.
And so what it happened, so I knew those VC funded things are going to pump because like, they're going to show up on various exchanges and every retard is going to buy them.
And, um, that's exactly what I did.
Like, as soon as it showed up, I like picked it up and got a two X on, um, I got a two X on Celestia and I already have a two X on SEI.
And I knew this would occur because like, and then what will happen is, is like, maybe they'll do another five X or 10 X, but then like VCs will start dumping on you.
So I have no intent in holding those things long run where something like a Casper and a Zephyr, you get a lot of diehard, you know, crypto freaks in it.
And they're just way more diamond handed than some kind of VCs and shit, right?
So that's like, that makes those communities as price goes up, they, they completely marry their bags.
They're completely in love and they will hold onto their shit for, for infinity or zero.
And that's a great community to be in.
Honestly, it's way more fun than the, than the VC backed stuff to some extent.
So that's where like, I think Zephyr's a fun kind of choice, but that doesn't mean I didn't buy the other ones just for a quick, you know, run up.
In fact, like I use the money I made off of the doubling of my Celestia coins.
Like I only like bought it for a month, doubled, and then I dumped those into Zephyr.
And then like, you know, like that was, that's history.
So like, you know, I, I felt like the, the, the opportunity cost was, um, the opportunity was better with Zephyr than it was for something like Celestia.
I mean, not that those won't go up.
They will.
Um, I'm sure they will, but it's such early time in the market right now.
But at the same time, I felt like, um, I had better overall odds of high, higher outcomes for, you know, like at these, at these other smaller coins.
So, and I think like the other thing with, with like, uh, Celestia and, um, uh, what was that?
Let's say like, they were really trying to like target like utility and like, you know, all of these partnerships and adoption and like the fully diluted market caps are in the billions of five billion or something for both of them.
Like it's like, there's a massive amount of emissions that are coming from both of those in the short term.
Like I think in the next couple of years, like both of them are going to like double or triple the amount of tokens in, in circulation.
Um, and you know, VC unlocks, team unlocks, all that sort of stuff.
So it's just like really easy.
Like, sure.
Like trade the chart, but make sure you get out before, you know, all those unlocks occur.
Same thing with like DYDX.
It's like, yeah, it's got a few bill, like low supply, but I think it's literally like early January, like the supply doubles and it's all like founder and VC and team unlocks and all this sort of stuff that you need to be mindful of.
Hello everyone, by the way, I've been listening for a while.
I'm out, out for a walk at the moment.
It's like scorching hot.
Yeah.
But that, hey, Roman.
Done with the PR money?
Uh, no, it's like midday.
I just wanted to get out of the office and get some exercise and sweat out the weekend fears and listen to some nerd talk about some crypto.
Yeah, but my basic philosophy on a couple of those chains was like, I'm fine with the VCs pumping my bags, but I'm not pumping theirs.
Like, that's not how this, like, they're not going to be my exit liquidity.
That's for fucksure.
Like, I've been around long enough to know that.
Um, so yeah, like, I think there are, um.
Wait, they're not going to be your exit liquidity?
I mean, they're not going to, I'm not going to be theirs.
I mean, you know, uh, there we go.
So, like, because all of their advertising, whatever is going to pump the bag for sure.
Um, and just the excitement and all the different protocols that they're building, like, that they fund will tend to do that.
But at the same time, it's like, you know, like the, the token allocation is on, on these things is pretty much miserable.
So, like, you can hold them if you want to, but, like, good luck.
Um, it's a plus or minus with VC funded things.
Because, like, on the one hand, you'll have a lot of early adoption.
A lot of protocols get built on layer one, you know, uh, DeFi project protocols and stuff.
You get DEXs and all the other fun things, like, built really quickly and really, like, with high quality.
But, and that's fun.
But at the same time, it's like the, the token allocation for the primary coin does not function that great as, like, a collateral.
Because, you know, the selling pressure is going to be heavy, um, over the long run.
So, it's, it's kind of a plus or minus thing to be getting into those.
And, uh, even Luna was the same way, by the way.
It was, like, very, there's quite a few VCs that got in pretty early.
What was, like, Jump Capital, Galaxy Digital, and a whole bunch of people.
And, of course, like, you know, Mike Novogratz and everybody else, like, was, you know, pumping it on Twitter and everything.
So, like, like, no question, all that stuff made it go up and made adoption really swing, like, positive.
So, I'm not totally fading VC chains.
It's just, like, but I'd rather just get, like, maybe a, somewhere between a 2x and a 10x and just kind of, like, you know, ride out of those things and, like, leave them to their VCs.
You know, I don't mind them pumping my, my bag, but I don't want to be their exit liquidity exactly.
I see guys on, on Twitter talking about how this is, like, the last, like, big cycle.
Like, do you think there's, like, any credence to that at all?
Just based on, like, all, you know, all the attention it's getting from, like, VCs.
People just make stuff up for the most part.
Like, you know, I think there's definitely some, there is some level of maybe crypto fatigue, perhaps.
There were a lot of, like, retail crowd that got wrecked by tons of exchanges over the last couple years, as you know.
So, there was, like, that set of, like, Max Payne sort of story.
But at the same time, if you have another big run, it'll just simply be followed by another big run and another one after that.
It's just, it's just because it's, like, a big gambling kind of space.
And, and it's global, too.
So, it's, like, if you look at the total market cap, it's not gigantic for such a global behemoth of chains.
Think about, like, the way to think about crypto is, like, you know how Bitcoin maxis are, like, oh, decentralization, blah, blah, blah.
And, like, but what really it is, is, like, the more chains there are, the more decentralized you are.
The more exchanges there are, the more decentralized you are.
The more people, like, and all of this is one big giant web anyway, because, like, the bot platforms on centralized exchanges and other places lead to, like, this, like, correlation of price action of all the chains anyway, to some extent.
It's just one giant, like, Leviathan, if you don't think about it.
It's just one big interconnected beast and everything, like, it's not going to zero anytime soon.
And there's, like, some new computer nerd wanting to build some new infrastructure, like, every week, it seems like.
So, so long as people are, you know, just building things and making neat things, I think the capital will flow.
Now, whether or not, like, the current crypto space is a QE phenomenon over the past, you know, 13 years, I mean, no doubt that at least it's partially that.
So, will it pump as much?
I don't know.
But at the same time, it depends.
And, like, crypto and AI have a very interesting, like, cross-section of, like, where, like, between robotics, AI, and crypto, there is a lot of, like, interconnectedness that could theoretically happen and more likely will happen over time.
So, we're seeing that begin now, just, like, the early phase of that.
And, you know, for sure that AI slash robotics is going to be, like, among the biggest things of the coming century, like, without a doubt.
Like, if cars and airplanes were the thing last century, like, robotics and AI are most definitely this century's, like, gigantic growth phase.
Assuming we outlive it, like, we're not going to go full Terminator.
Or what this basically means is, like, these are all applications that have actual real-world utility with crypto.
Whereas, like, crypto so far has been, like, oh, what are we going to use it for?
Well, guess what?
This is, like, native internet money.
The perfect use is robots and AI to pay for computation and pay for, you know, like, interconnecting these things.
So, like, I don't have any doubt, like, we're going to continue to, like, move in the digital age this way.
So, I think this, like, nonsense that people spew on Twitter about whatever they think they believe in is largely just bullshit for the most part.
But, yeah, is crypto going to be the next Nokia?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
Like, if you understand how consensus mechanisms work, like, the tech is there.
Like, there's very useful tech being built, for sure.
Like, with practical applications.
I know it doesn't seem like it because of all the pump and dump dynamics of it.
Like, and to be fair, a lot of it is speculative nonsense, like, for sure.
But, like, but there is definitely good tech being built.
Yeah.
I mean, of course, it won't go to zero.
But, you know, I think a lot of us here are more looking for, like, the 10x, 100x coins that will, you know, make us a ton of money.
And so, like, I know, like, in the past, there was, like, a lot of them.
And I see there's plenty now.
But, you know, again, like, at some point, you know, there is a limit to how much money can enter the space.
You know, it's...
Yeah, yeah.
There's, like, a, there's a, what is the bucket of money out there?
Although, you know, the crypto market cap is relatively small compared to the rest of all the finance.
Like a trillion in change, I think.
Yeah, a trillion in change versus, like, you know, what is it, 500 plus trillion currencies on float.
Yeah.
So, there's always that, like, that perspective that maybe, yeah, only a small fraction of people use it or whatever.
I think, like, if you think, the thing about crypto is, like, mom and pop don't want to use this thing.
And babies don't want to use this thing.
Kids aren't using this thing.
There is kind of a narrow band of, like, addressable market of people who want to, like, speculate and play with it.
I do think, though, like, as you go forward, more and more, like, the primary consumer of computational power will be computers and robots without question.
Like, like, I have zero doubt in my mind just based on the trajectory of how things are going, how gigantic Microsoft's new AI project is about to be.
Like, like, in terms of just sheer electrical, like, draw.
Like, it's just ridiculous.
It's like, you're going to have, like, city AIs, like, they're going to consume, like, the power of cities potentially and more.
So, in that environment, like, crypto is a much more useful medium of exchange than any kind of, like, fiat, banking, whatever system.
Like, there's no question in my mind about that.
So, I think this, like, there's also the trend towards, like, CBDCs, like, what Europe wants to do, which I think is highly tyrannical.
None of this is, even AI, in my view, is not particularly all that great for the human mind and human existence necessarily.
But there's a lot of negatives that can take place with CBDCs, AI, and stuff, as far as, like, what I consider the machine totalitarian state.
So, I think that's a very strong danger.
But there's no question, like, we're moving in that direction no matter whether we like it or not.
So, and in that universe, like, crypto will continue to have a space.
In fact, like, one of the reasons that I think Zephyr's narrative is at the right time is, coming at the right time is, I think, in the last 10 years,
like, since Monero and Zcash and whatever came out, like, you know, the privacy narrative never really picked up a lot of steam.
Like, privacy chains did not attract a lot of capital.
But now that you have CBDCs and shit going on, I think stuff like Zephyr could actually absolutely just take your breath away in terms of how, like, popular it could be.
If, like, Europe is basically now, like, issuing CBDCs where people can monitor every transaction you do.
I think just the scale of just Zephyr as, like, just for peer-to-peer.
Like, if I want to send Wabi or iLink or Madden or whatever, like, a little bit of money, like, the ability to do so in a peer-to-peer fashion,
I think will gain a lot more steam with CBDCs either on the horizon or in actual reality than ever before.
So privacy could be just, like, an outlandish, like, like, I don't know.
There could be quite a big, strong meme effect or anti-establishment effect from it.
And I suspect, like, maybe, and I could be wrong, like, that maybe privacy is finally coming full circle and people are going to care about it.
Yeah, I don't know.
Like, I never got too into privacy coins too heavily in the past either.
But I'm starting to see the light with where we're at with CBDCs coming up.
So this particular chain, I think, is the right tech at the right time to some extent.
But we'll see.
And on the other hand, like, I have, like, a fair amount of, like, Chainlink bag too.
And Chainlink's the other way around.
It's, like, oracles, you know, detecting online truth, transmitting that truth.
And then, like, that becomes more of a TradFi adoption arc where banks and things like that who want to move away from Swift, you know, or other techniques, like, or just real-world asset oracles.
These kinds of things can be really, really interesting with Chainlink.
So it's, like, the opposite of Zephyr in many ways.
Like, Zephyr is, like, the dark internet and the Chainlink is the light internet.
And it's, like, you know, have a bag of both.
It's kind of an interesting thing.
So I'm not, like, I'm not fully committed that, like, one view of the world, like, the accelerationist AI tech worldview is necessarily the best or that the decelerationist, like, tech is bad worldview and everything should go in dark again is necessarily bad.
I'm somewhere in the middle, I think.
Like, I'm a moderate in this.
I mean, and there's room for both.
I mean, as DEXs and exchanges get more, you know, seamless and fees go down, I mean, people won't even care that much.
You know, maybe they want to, you know, buy some weed off the dark web, you know, switch to Zephyr real quick.
You know, want to go buy, like, a house or pay for an Uber.
You know, go back to Link, for example.
So, you know, I don't see why both can't exist, you know, in your vision of the future anyways.
Yeah, I think both will have to exist.
An interesting thing is, too, like, a lot of the politicians and stuff, they're largely just dimwits.
I mean, they're kind of stupid, like, not even kind of stupid, like, a lot stupid.
They actually, like, both in China and in the U.S., it's interesting, like, a lot of the people are very good at creating, like, totalitarian states for themselves that they themselves won't like in the future.
Like, they think it's a good idea now, but, like, later when they're actually living in it, they realize, oh, fuck, it's too late.
Like, all the cameras monitor everything I do, and if you're not a good enough communist, you know, you're going to be in trouble.
And so, like, the reality is, like, you wind up with a North Korea-like state when you take tech to its nth degree.
And I think that's sort of the direction things are very much headed.
And I'm not saying this just to be kind of, like, hyperbolic or whatever.
Every element of the tech I see is headed in that direction, like, where basically you could be β you could basically manipulate populations en masse easily with AI.
I mean, you're seeing it with TikTok as a perfect example, and other examples include, like, just Facebook algorithms and whatever.
But, like, closer and closer, you're getting to where, like, we're all busy, busy, busy building machines, which are, you know, great for building other machines and designing even cooler machines.
But there's very little sense that, like, you're necessarily dramatically improving the human experience necessarily, right?
Like, it's like β it's a nonstop, like, machine-building experience.
And there's not really a clear evidence that, like, most of that is increasing human freedom.
But almost all of the technologies look like they're more probable to actually worsen human freedom than what we have now.
So it's a pretty nasty sort of, like β my view of the world is fairly pessimistic at the moment.
And so I don't want to drag the group down on a Sunday or whatever.
But, like, it's β so I think, yeah, in crypto there's, like, some really, really bad things about decentralization.
Because, like, if you have a system that, you know, uh-oh, we should shut that down.
Now you can't, right?
Like, you know, the robots are trading in Bitcoin and we can't turn the fucking thing off.
Now what are we going to do, right?
Like, that becomes a problem.
On the other hand, like, if you don't have decentralization, then you have another set of problems, which is, like, you know, other forms of central control.
So there's always this battle, and I think the crypto space won't go anywhere because there's always a credible reason why some combination of decentralization or privacy does help individuals at some level.
But I think even the most diehard decentralists don't really get it when, like β because they don't understand, like, what's possible with algorithmic AI tech and how bad it can get.
So it's, like, the worst parts of a movie.
But I really do think, like, we are biting on the last apples in the last, you know, in the corner of Garden of Eden or whatever.
And, you know, it's really a fuck-around-and-find-out moment for human history the next 50 years, especially as, like, fusion reactors look like they're probably viable at some point.
I don't know if you've followed that tech at all, but, like, we're probably, like, 30 years away.
But, like, fusion reactors look actually viable.
I mean, that's great for crypto because, you know, I mean, like, a big argument is, like, oh, you know, it's a waste of power or energy.
But if you have so much that, you know, you can barely use it, you know, fine, whatever, you know, waste a few, you know, terawatts on Bitcoin.
It's fine, you know, there's money to go around.
Yeah, the world's going to change a lot, a lot in the next 50 years.
I'm not sure if you've seen this, but, you know, they're starting to think about building offshore data centers for training AI models that, you know, are unsanctioned.
Yeah, I saw that.
Yeah, I think it was AKT, that coin, that, like, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I have Akash.
Akash is just decentralized cloud or decentralized GPU compute.
So I own some of the coin.
I've had it for the last few years.
I've spoken to the founder a few times, Greg Asuri or whatever.
Yeah, that's another interesting project.
Now, they're not doing anything, like, offshore.
They're just, like, it allows, like, if you want, if you have some compute, you can put that in the KOSH network and get paid to provide that compute, like, extra cloud compute resources you might have.
So it's, like, it, but it provides basically decentralized computing.
So, like, let's say you have a web page and you don't want it to be shut down by anybody.
Well, you can, like, deploy it on, like, Flux network or KOSH.
It's basically, that's what those things do.
I mean, if the offshore rigs are sanctioned, you know, by Congress, for example, and the campaign and USD, I mean, that's basically a perfect use case.
And actually, like, it's coins like that that get me very excited, like, about the space because they have, like, a very, very real, very easy to articulate and explain use, which is, like, I think, great for narrative.
Yeah, although I would say the utility things don't perform monetarily as well as the non-utility things.
And that's been pretty much across the board, almost.
So just be wary of that.
Like, yeah, I agree with you that, like, the high utility stuff sounds the sexiest, but they're not necessarily the things that grow the most multiples in terms of, like, attracting an audience for some reason.
So, like, would you take, like, Doge cum coin over, like, AKT, like, for example?
Yeah, which is, it's funny, but yeah, like, my mistake was not doing that and buying all the utility shit last season.
And, like, that's what I would say was, like, the most, like, oh, what is this Doge bullshit?
It's nonsense, right?
That was, like, it was a misunderstanding, I think, of how powerful memes and network effects actually can get in terms of bringing together tons of human beings to throw capital at stupid shit.
But it's amazing, like, you know what I mean?
Like, to me, it's, like, what you would want to do is, like, take the low cap nonsense moves and, you know, you, like, speculate on those.
But you would drop those into the AKTs or whatever in a bear market so that you have, like, you know, you bought something useful in the end, but you didn't necessarily, like, miss out on the wild moves of, like, memeology and whatever and small cap stuff.
Do you think Elon would pump Doge again or do you think he's just too big at this point?
Yeah, that's part of the reason why I got some Doge.
Oh, really?
You think you'll actually...
Like, yeah, yeah, because he had mentioned before he, I think before he picked up Twitter, I believe, he had mentioned that, or right after he got it, he said it would be really cool to make Doge the money on Twitter.
And usually when Elon says something, he usually means it as far as, like, final delivery.
So I think there's a fair chance that actually, yeah, like, if there's a lot of shit that X needed to fix, and it's been kind of working on that.
And it's been working on things in particular that help with monetization of the platform so that, like, the platform can become, like, self-sufficient in terms of ad revenue or whatever.
So he's made a lot of progress there, but, like, one of the things he did mention is eventually putting, like, Doge or whatever, Bitcoin and things like that on the platform.
So, you know, the previous founder was more of a BTC maximalist, whereas for Elon, like, the difference is he thinks, like, the funniest outcome is the most, you know, likely to be successful.
And he just liked the mimetic concept behind Doge and whatever bullshit.
So, yeah, I think it's highly likely he would put it on if he puts anything.
If he does any crypto on X, he will almost certainly have Doge on here.
And that's, by itself, will moon the thing.
So I think it's a pretty good gamble.
So I did get some for an expected.
He already made the logo with the Doge closely or whatever, right?
Like, for a week or two?
Oh, yeah, he did.
Yeah, that's true.
Because he said, like, if I'm not buying it, I'm going to change the logo.
And he actually did.
So, you know, all he did, like, maybe six months ago, I think it was six or nine months ago, he sort of whispered about Dogecoin in a Twitter space.
I was on with him when he was talking about his, like, changes that he was making to X.
And, you know, he started to do some spaces and stuff.
And there'd be, like, 200,000 people in there.
And he just mentioned the word Doge because, like, one of the guys made him, like, say Doge to the moon.
And he said it.
And the coin pumped, like, a 2x, like, right after he said it.
It was just hilarious.
And I'm like, oh, here we go.
But, like, it was just a quick, like, pump and dump.
It just didn't do anything after that.
And then it just kind of languished the rest of the year.
But, yeah, it moves quite fast.
And that was just in a Twitter space, he said, and it moved up that much.
That just tells you how many crypto nerds are on Twitter.
I'm pretty sure, like, I tweeted kind of Semi and Jess this morning around, like, having a DCA strategy for when you tweet, like, a ticker.
It seems like that's actually going to get built, by the way.
And I will fucking use it.
But, like, so Shane, founder from Stargate, like, literally replied to me with his GitHub link of, like, something he created for, like, CoinMarketCap or something where he used to do the same thing.
And he was like, you could, like, easily hook this into, like, someone's Twitter account.
And then we just need, like, Calc Finance to hook it in.
But there's definitely people that moon their bags way more than I do.
I'm pretty conservative.
No, no, no.
Relatively speaking.
Like, I'm going to do that just because I think it would be fun.
Like, you know, a little side bag, a little stephy bag.
And you can see how rich I can get.
Sorry for the win.
My point was more like every single time Elon tweets, you can actually look at the Doge shot.
And I think people have the exact same thing set up.
So every time he tweets, like, Doge does this little pump.
And I think, like, people are doing that.
The DCA E1 tweet strategy.
Anyway, I'm going to get this thing built.
We're going to do the set piece.
There's definitely social sentiment bots and stuff like that that pick up on those things.
And people have programmed, like, algorithmic bot trading based on some of those things for sure.
I don't know how effective they are, but they do it.
But there's entire platforms, too, like Lunar Crush and stuff.
They, like, they try to, like, monitor the...
I should post some stuff from there again.
It's a pretty good app, actually.
You can get it on...
You can get the basic version of it on the app store.
And I think you had to pay a certain amount to get all the features because they were working on monetizing it.
But it's pretty good.
It gives you an idea of, like, which communities are, like, have the highest social sentiment, the highest number of tweets, all that stuff you can actually get on Lunar Crush.
It's a pretty cool little app.
I haven't opened in a while because I used to use it a fair amount.
But then, like, I've gone more towards, like, not waiting till those apps, like, detect social sentiment.
Like, it's easier to ask people, like, who trade in, like, microcap stuff like Drake here or, like, Up or whoever.
And they have a better...
They have a pretty good sense of what's going to move before it actually does.
And...
Because even the social sentiment stuff is a little bit delayed, right?
You're kind of late to the party a little.
But anyway, just a thought.
It's always been a cool app if you want to play with it.
And they have, like, little notifications and shit if things are pumping or whatever it is.
Do you think they should rebrand from Lunar Cross to...
Crypto Crush or Cosmos Crush or something?
Yeah, maybe so.
Like...
Because all of our coins get destroyed or what?
Yeah, you know, maybe they could rename to Spiral.
I don't know.
Just call it.
Anything that's, like...
Anything that's still branded, like, Lunar, I don't know, kind of, like, really irked me.
Like, you've been sitting here for two years with, like, a business that you could have probably, like, rebranded, re-energized into, like, something new and, you know, made some money.
Is everything taking a little dip this evening or what?
Let me see here.
Not really.
I guess everything's pretty good.
This, like, every time there's a little bit of dip, it's, like, a couple of the ones that kind of keep holding strong are Chainlink and Fetch, those two.
Fetch on the AI narrative and Chainlink on just, like, you know, Chainlink narratives.
Like, but each time there's a dip, like, it gets bought and you can tell it's, like, that they're doing better than some of the other things that are dipping more.
And that's a good sign.
It's actually funny you said that.
Yeah, I think I'm, like, Bitcoin and Bitcoin above, like, 37, 37 and a half and ETH above, like, 2K.
I'm just chilling.
I don't even look at the charts, really.
Like, I've got, like, I've got a little bit of capital, like, on the sides and I'm just, like, sitting and waiting on them.
And, you know, I've got some sell prices on, like, some other shit that I want to rotate eventually, like, small out.
But, yeah, I'm not worried at all.
I think we're more likely to see, like, 45K or 47K than, you know, the low 20s.
Back during COVID when I was trading semis, this was, like, in 2020, 2021, the best way to figure out, you know, which position to scale into was just on down days to see who was holding strong.
Like, who was flat on big down days.
And, like, pretty consistently, at least, you know, again, in stocks, you know, those are the ones that would run the best because that's, you know, when all the accumulation was happening
or from all the big whales and stuff.
So, I assume it's very similar in crypto, in that sense, at least.
Yeah.
Drake, what's up to you, man?
Safiyu, what's up, man?
You got something up your sleeve today?
Yeah, I actually wanted to see what you guys are playing around with on GameFi.
I'm trying to dust off the GameFi books, looking at some old OG coins.
I feel like those guys are probably going to start catching a bid.
At first, I mean, I was...
You're riding the Alex Becker train?
I knew it was going to pump, but I didn't expect it to start to bring in retail as much as it did.
I really think retail is going to latch on, and I think GameFi is going to catch a bid.
I mean, the reason, like, how I was playing GameFi is I just grabbed a couple of positions I knew I would be okay,
like, sleeping on and just, like, whatever, wake up a year later and they're still there,
which is going to be, like, some infrastructure plays.
Like, what are your favorites right now?
Like, I like Alluvium.
I do like IMX.
I like Beam.
TVK is rebranding to some new one.
I'm not really messing around with that.
I like Magic over on Arbitrum.
There's a couple of other ones, but I really want to look into, like, the really niche DGEN one.
There's one that I've just randomly found that was just...
Yeah, Alluvium's market cap's already about 700 mil.
I know.
I'm looking for some small ones.
There's one, like, called Champs, but it's, like, a 5 mil cap, and it's, like, an Uber DGEN one.
Someone was...
It's up, like, a 3X already.
Someone's, like, oh, yeah, it's a deflationary game five, whatever, all that jazz, buzz, garbage.
Blah, blah, blah, burning.
Yeah, yeah, that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah stuff.
Like, does it make money?
Okay, potentially.
Yeah, exactly.
It's, like, stop with all the shit narratives.
It's, like, are people actually going to fucking use it because there's an opportunity for them to make money or have fun?
And I don't know how good of a game Illuvium or whatever is or how good the tokenomics or distribution or anything about it.
I remember Solana had some pretty good games.
Like, I didn't play them, but I remember Star Atlas.
Yeah, Star Atlas, finally, what happened to it?
Is it still around?
Is it vaporware?
Like, what?
It is.
It is still around, and it's down bad.
So, I was, like, I'm grabbing some of this just in case.
Star Atlas?
They lost a lot of money in the FTX crash, so I, like, I haven't added to it.
But I don't know if they'll be able to come back.
I know they're still building, though.
Who else?
I feel like Solana games are going to kill it this bull run.
Solana and Avalanche subnet games and then the IMAX games.
The reason I say subnets is because I think this is the season to where it's not going to be the game fight games that do well.
It's the ones that have an actual chain.
So, the game fight games with a chain are going to kill it this season.
And it's going to be, like, the same.
So, similar to how we had the ICO bubble back in 2017, and then in 2020, we had, like, the layer one, I guess you can call it ICO bubble, whatever.
The games that we had in this previous bull run were built on other chains.
So, you can kind of look at them like ICOs.
And they were on different launchpads.
Like, some people are chasing game fight launchpad platforms.
I don't think that's the higher beta play.
The higher beta play to me is those.
Launchpads are generally stupid.
But people love them.
Dex's launchpads are just like, oh, man.
They can make you a lot of money.
I remember Pokestarter back in the last bull run.
Yeah.
Bought it, sold it, bought it, sold it again.
And I was like, wow, this is great.
And that's what got me into altcoin trading, actually.
But I got burned on a bunch of them.
DDIM killed me.
I remember Ivan on Tech shilled the mess out of me on that.
I thought it was the best thing ever.
Roasted.
Yeah, Star Atlas had a lot of interesting, like, visuals and things that they put together, some 3D stuff.
And they were basically creating, like, a RuneScape-type, you know, gigantic 3D world kind of metaverse, like, space opera type of game.
And the question with those things, if you know any about the history of gaming, is that, like, the problem with all of that is that most games, like, 99% of games actually are not that good.
And it's easy to produce interesting-looking visuals and vaporware and bullshit.
And there was a lot of vaporware back in, like, even in the 90s and stuff of, like, games that never got built that would, like, look so sexy and you wanted to play them.
And back then, you couldn't buy a coin that, you know, subsidized that team or whatever.
Now you can buy coins for sheer vaporware, and a lot of that stuff truly will never take off or, like, never be that great.
Even if the, like, intentions of the people are good, like, games are hard to make great.
Like, they just are.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, yeah.
They apparently fired, like, 80% of their workers after the FTX thing because they lost so much money.
Oh, gee.
Oh, were they heavily, like, invested in Solano tokens or something or what?
They had their money on FTX, like, a chunk of their money.
No shit.
Okay.
Wow.
That's rough.
So, basically, like, you know, standard crypto business treasury management.
Yeah, exactly.
You're so in it to win it that you have your, you know, your job is in crypto, your money's in crypto, and your treasury's in crypto.
So, that's, yeah.
And, like, what's the point in, you know, diversifying and, you know, ensuring that, you know, it's stable across a number of platforms, a number of wallets, a number of assets?
Well, exactly.
But, like, I think it was in USD, but it was on FTX.
Yeah, it's too bad.
No, Star Wars was building some cool shit.
Like, I went to some of their spaces and things, and they were, like, creating all sorts of, like, NFT skins for spaceships and shit.
And they were going for, like, $10,000, $20,000 type, like, sales and stuff.
And people are getting real amped up about it to be joining the space opera and be space pirates or whatever the hell they're going to be.
Yeah, it was, like, a Legend of Galactic Heroes type of mindset.
Like, you know, the old anime.
And, yeah, very cool, like, general idea, but I don't know.
The other thing, too, is, like, getting the tokenomics of a world economy right is really, really hard.
Like, that's easy to fuck up badly from the very beginning.
And what made me nervous about Star Atlas is, like, wait a minute.
Like, why am I playing this game when they're pre-selling NFTs for, like, $10,000, $20,000?
So, like, if you can, these pay-to-play games where, like, if you're particularly richer that you can, like, get all the cool shit in the game and the people who are poor can't get any good shit, those things just don't take off.
Like, you might make money for a while, but there's a total addressable market peaks out.
I think the, like, most aggressive kind of, like, pay-to-play type thing was the Kim Kardashian, like, I kid you not, like, the Kim Kardashian iPad game or whatever, where they made a ton of fucking money on stupid shit.
Like, they'd sell dolls with, like, you know, the little paper dolls with, like, you'd buy Kim Kardashian glasses for certain amounts of money and stuff.
And so, people would, like, buy this junk.
Sefi, you're telling me you didn't pay $10,000 to play Curvata?
What's Curvata?
It's a joke.
It's a joke.
Those, the DJs on this space know exactly what I'm talking about.
They were, like, these little crabs, almost like Axe Infinity, and we were paying, like, $10,000 to get one of these crabs.
You had to have three of them in order to play this garbage game.
Oh, Jesus, Axe.
Yeah, pay-to-play, like, yeah, House of Cards, huh?
Oh, it was rough.
It was rough.
No, pay-to-play just does not work.
Like, your game has to be almost free-to-play to get network effects, and then, like, the token has to, or whatever, has to be very, very fair and, like, only minimally useful in the game to make it work.
Like, because any deflationary token that goes really, really high up in value, you'll quickly create a situation where some of the participants in the game are doing way better because of, like, the wealth they hold versus those that don't.
And then the newcomer's like, wait, why am I playing this game?
Like, how am I going to make, how am I going to find $10 million to go compete against this spaceship?
It's just not rational, right?
So this is the problem with, like, attaching crypto to the games.
They quickly lose the, like, they get messed up in terms of scale and the monetary system within it.
In fact, like, a lot of the old games, like, I tell this story a lot, like, World of Warcraft did this, EverQuest did this.
Every new expansion of the game, they would, like, make all the previous items that you got pretty much obsolete, remember?
Like, you'd go and, like, you'd farm, like, swords again, and the yard trash would have the same stuff that the previous dragons used to have, and then you'd kill more dragons.
And then the next expansion, the yard trash would have, like, better stuff.
So, like, the whole point was to inflate away the old items so that the newcomer feels like they can actually play.
It's just a weird dynamic, but, like, inflation is really, really important for, like, ongoing game growth.
And if you, like, a lot of the mechanics I saw for a lot of the games that were out there did not make any sense.
Like, you knew they were going to crash eventually.
There's no way they're sustainable with the, they only work when the token price is going up because everyone's excited.
But when the downturn happens, like, oh, shit, everything goes to shit.
Yeah.
That's a good point.
But I feel like there are going to be some games because that are actually going to catch a bid.
I think retail is going to get it going.
Just trying to figure out which ones those are going to be that are going to kill it.
Yeah, if someone has some, like, yeah, amazing alpha in that regard, I'll throw some money at it, but I don't know.
I'm not sure who's, like, the expert at that stuff.
I'm definitely not an expert with gaming, but I'm surprised you guys don't like the launch pads.
Like, the only thing I really have right now is Cedify, which did crazy last bull market.
Oh, that's true.
That's why.
They might do okay.
It's just that, remember, if something did really well at the prior bull market, there's also a lot of bag holders that are going to want to sell as it goes up.
Like, so you do have a lot of resistance on those, too.
So that's, like, if I'm going to be going, like, small cap and they're, like, high risk anyway, and, like, they're kind of, like, you know, they're not world-changing projects.
They're just something.
Like, then I'd rather have something without the, that can have, like, price discovery and really, like, just moon for no reason than, you know, just having to wait and wait and wait.
I agree with a lot of that.
I just think that with the launch pads, you want, like, a trustworthy launch pad, and people trust Cedify because, you know, a lot of the influencers work with them.
I'm not saying it won't catch a bit.
I think it will, but I'm just looking at a different perspective.
Like, in 2020 or 2017, I wasn't around, but just looking at history and seeing what the meta, it was basically just aping into any new altcoin or any new ICO that launched.
However, in 2020, that was 2020 and 2021, that was a completely different story.
It was basically the layer one that had the most money coming at it and then buying those altcoins on that chain.
It wasn't buying, like, your Nano or, like, your secret network that ICO'd back in the day.
Like, it wasn't that type of thing where you just buy an ICO and pray for the best.
Instead, it was you actually bought the layer one token, you rode that up a little bit, and then you diversified into the altcoins that were on that chain.
Yeah, I said diversified.
It's so weird.
And then you basically ride that train.
Sprinkle your money is what he meant.
Sprinkle a little bit here and there.
You can't, like, you're diversifying an altcoin is basically just like, yeah, it's spreading your debt.
Eventually, those things just die.
Yeah, it's like impregnating 100 women and hoping one of your kids was not a retard.
You know, it's like, you get it.
The doctor's take.
Or something like that.
Or something like that.
Something like that.
The Sefi take.
But yeah, like, I think, yeah, if there's like a very specific, like, game.
For game tokens, though, like, I would want to, like, love the game in order to bother with getting the coin.
Because it's more fun if you have something interesting happening.
Like, and the narratives, like, and the narratives, like, are going to spread like wildfire because people are collecting the various tokens in the game for some, like, you know, some purpose, right?
So, like, I think, like, I think coins that entertain, like, you know, they just create network effects.
One thing that I think that kind of stuff.
One thing that I'm always cautious about.
One thing that I'm always cautious about.
One of our friends on here, Tokir, he's out of Dubai.
And one of his, like, his area is gaming.
And his, like, his basic concept is, like, so they basically take VC-based games and stuff.
and then they like figure out how to find influencers and stuff to talk about the game on
youtube or whatever right and he said that like the amount of money that you have to spend
to acquire users in video games is ginormous apparently like because there's so many games
out there and it's so relatively easy to produce them now that like it's all about marketing and
like the budgets can run crazy high um you know even in in the crypto space like yeah like games
last time last time you might have had one or two like um you know whatever you know whatever like
axia infinity or whatever and they would moon for some reason and got popular but now like you're
gonna have a lot more of them so that the field gets crowded very quickly so like i think if there's
gonna be a season for the for for game coins this is probably the season um because like
people saw the potential last time maybe there's less vaporware or junk games this time maybe
and maybe like gaming is finally going to catch a bit that's going to be more like um something that
is like long lasting as opposed to a pure pump and dump like an axi which uh was a disaster basically
like it's just a funny thing like how do you make this sustainable game and who's building that
i'd love to hear more about that sort of thing
i thought star atlas down and sounded interesting i'm it's it's too bad they got wrecked so bad
but that's that's the point though like when people show you roadmaps like oh we're gonna build this
and there's gonna be 3d metaverse that and whatever and it's like 10 years away man like 10 years a
long time like a lot of land so many vaporware things in gaming come and gone with that kind of
promises what's that defy what defy land i remember is a popular solana game it looks like they are
done with their vc fund or their yeah there was the other one on harmony too what was it called
uh defy kingdoms kingdoms yeah yeah yeah i used to know one of the guys on here that used to work
on that guy it's like his uh his uh name is flu i think flu yeah flu flu uh frisky fox he's one of
the devs over there flu is more of like biz dev yep i think flu ended up getting wrecked in both
harmony and luna because he got exposed to the harmony bridge hack yeah and then on top of that
had like luna ust or something so he just got absolutely decimated um yeah yeah it's very
unlucky when all the chains you're on get we get screwed somehow that sucks i i had a chance to
get out of it i saw like the usd de-pegging but i couldn't i was stuck in a thor chain pool and they
the pools were halted so i was like this is awesome let's watch the ship go down i told you about it and
i i found a strategy to hedge it or i came up with one and it did not someone in the audience was
asking about uh naka games um nakamoto and um i had some last season i don't know uh what they've
accomplished since then there's another ticker he mentioned too but i'm not sure about that one at
all uh do you know about what's happening to naka lately i don't know what naka is nakamoto games i don't
remember what they're building but like i think it was it a i think it was a like a game crypto game
engine of some kind and then like you could build on top of it or something like that something along
those lines i believe but anyway yeah i don't know too much about now that we are on the topic i do
recall um in an earlier space a uh a game coming out i gotta figure out i gotta look into it but uh
it's a crypto dungeon uh they got their nfts on stargates
mm-hmm yeah i think i think right now they gotta buy um buy two get oh yeah buy one get one free
um where the you you dm the um the transaction for your you know for your purchase
and i bought a couple of their nfts just because they're old i think they're kind of old school
dudes that like like tabletop dnd and stuff like that that's cool so i bought a couple of their nfts
i haven't played the thing um uh i like i don't know i don't play that many games anymore as i used
to but uh yeah it seems like nice guys though uh so i picked up a couple nfts just to support them
or whatever doing the lord's work stephy yeah they had a validator too on cosmos and i warned
them i was like i don't know it's hard to stay at the bottom of that validator set and not get flipped
and then uh lose delegations uh i know bruce had trouble with that too and um i was like uh you
probably should think about that no we're gonna we're gonna work real hard at it and whatever and
then they dropped out of the active set and then they stopped validating um yeah the validator
game is brutal at the at the like lower end of the spectrum and those guys were doing that
anyway um drake yeah any any other like alpha lately um on dogechain i'm minting some oink
it's got 11 000 holders 69 of it's minted probably do something
yeah so so i was talking about brc20s earlier that's that's the same thing but on dogecoin
that that drake is talking about correct yeah uh the alpha if you're on brc20s then you see what
genie david's got we were minting mice last night uh get yourself some mats those are minting right now
there's like 80 percent minted nats as in the bugs no no it's nats it's on tap protocol
um i made a video on it it's but it's actually pretty easy to mint you can actually just go
straight to ordinal's wallet they made a ui for it do not buy it on the secondary
uh nats how the protocol works it go the the tokens actually go to the mentor not the person
on the secondary so once it mints out you're roasted only thing you can do right now is mint
that token there there is speculation that um some people will derive value to the inscription
quote-unquote receipt but those don't hold any tokens um that goes to the original mentor but
there is a chance that there is a secondary market for it because a lot of people are fading this
and i i'm shocked it's minting so quick it's this is like the fourth day of it fifth day
bitmaps on the other hand took like two weeks to mint out these on the other hand are taking
drake you you are a serious like um like fringe nerd man for sure because like you're always like
finding some random shit in the middle of nowhere dude i think i'd spend too much time in crypto
probably need to do something else that's yeah well like maybe like take up painting or some shit like
you're gonna have like hey i was like drake like an hour ago we're gonna get like pictures
of unicorns or something like drake unicorns he's gonna become a painter yeah i probably should do
that that'd be fun no i can't do painting but i can build stuff i like building stuff
you got any any musk on uh on the drc 20s drake
uh doge or drc 20s or b rc 20s yeah yeah yeah the doge the dogecoin ones like yeah i got some
i got some musk i got doge maps i got dogecoin punks doginal fepes i got fitwib um uh jizzo
uh trill depal i got a bunch of yeah you need to get me some jizzo like what dude i stinking minted
doge or doge back in uh like four months ago but i minted the wrong one i minted it i guess i
minted all capital letters i don't know but i got ripped off dude out of about 15 grand
i was like bro what in the world but whatever you guys tripped me out like one one more quick
alpha about the the drc 20s on dogecoin apparently like it's risky to buy doginals because uh they
might like get lost in your wallet if you like send doge or stuff like that so some people were
saying that they uh like i don't know exactly what was happening but just be careful with buying
dogeals if you're going to get into drc 20s i would say that every single thing in crypto i thought was
stupid that people are talking about mooned that's the funniest thing like just the simply the word of
mouth should not be faded typically there is power there in the network effect
you know you can use a specific wallet for um doginals right yeah i've been using the uh the drc 20
i forget what their thing is called i think doge labs oh you're using doge labs they also have one
for ordify or or defined wallet it's actually not that bad it's for um this one's for what's their
website a doginal sounds like something a dog would pee in like maybe it's connected to the wall
dude don't fade you know what i'm saying doginal doge is where it's at
you're probably right doge is
i'm just kidding i i have no idea if doge is going to do something
it probably already pulled its uh numbers dude this is so annoying yeah the marketplace are horrible
like half the items on the marketplace aren't even for sale they're already sold it's so annoying
wait why are they still showing the ones that are already sold because it's like og days over there
and they don't know how to get their panties out of a lot and make a good platform
no they they just don't have a lot of builders over there yet it's early days have you have you
tried doggy.market drake yeah i'm on doggy market it's garbage like half the listing they're sold
oh i kind of like that one a little bit how much are you guys spending on these things like what are
these things running for these days it's cheap yeah it's like it's priced in doge so like
10 doge 20 doge to inscribe inscribe something it's like 1.5 doge or 2 doge which is 14 cents
so that's that's the big question too is like do you guys think there's going to be
um a gigantic nft craze again or not okay here's dogey um the tokens i was telling you about the
15 000 i got ripped off out of probably would only cost me no not probably it would have only
it would have only cost me 15 doge and but you lost 15k worth of doge to get that no i lost 15
doge i lost 15 okay at least at 15 km like jesus like a dollar no not even a dollar that's not a dollar
that's like yeah that's like a dollar a little over it's like a dollar yeah
i mean i feel like nfts they're super speculative most of them are going to go to zero but um
like dogenals like it's so early i think it's either going to go to zero or it's going to take
off like crazy and and once dogecoin starts pumping that's when we know if dogenals is gonna
is gonna be a thing or not are there any good uh block explorers for doge like ones that are
like mempool for for bitcoin you know what i'm talking about where it shows block by block
because i have some inscriptions in the mempool and i can't tell when they're going to confirm or
not like i know you can go to the explorer and like it'll say hey unsuccessful but i want to be
able to see what the current rate is i i'm not sure oh that seems a lot too complicated for me i'm
like like do i really want to follow that shit no i don't
yeah you probably don't want to it's a little bit too much it's kind of annoying but whatever
hopefully these mint i hate getting front ran i got front ran really hard on shit
there's some little bitcoin thing little wassies i mean legitimately if you just want to be
entertained like there's actually pretty good like traditional video games that are pretty good
like then to mess around with this stuff
it's a good point i haven't played video games in i don't know how long i can't even play video
games anymore they just like the shooter games that they have nowadays i am not very good at them
so i always roasted i used to be really good at video games when i played all the time
then like you spawn or it's like i've watched a respawn screen just 24 7 like i'll die and then
someone somehow shoots me as soon as i respond and it's like this is garbage and it's 10 9 whatever
i just stopped playing
i'm curious like how how long the uh how long zephyr is going to like build like this base price here
i'm saying it's probably gonna be like cost cost was trying to build a base for a good bit of time
how much like months uh i think it was like two weeks three weeks that's not bad if you think about
it like in a bullish market like a base will be built like over a period of weeks and you have a
big up move again like as people start seeing that like line flatten out and they're feeling
comfortable that the bottom's in and then you just do this like five to seven times right like just
over and over and over again for like you know a year or two is typically how this thing these type
of things go and then that's assuming of course like you don't have any like massive fud of some
kind emerge for some reason in the middle
yeah i'm kind of debating them like am i like gonna keep all of uh like do i stay all in for
like doing the caspa run kind of thing or what you know or you know do i predict higher because you
know monero is at three billion and you know and we're just sort of early in the overall market
i'm not sure um i think definitely zephyr could hit top 10 though i mean i'm sorry top 100
that's a very high probability in my my view assuming no no fuck-ups happen right
i mean there are all sorts of silly chains in the top 100 to be fair i'm pretty sure zeph can make it
to the top 100 if it does catch on yeah it's not that far away a lot smaller things can peek into
the top 100 fairly easily so definitely this can
it was the first coin that got me to try mech c so that's saying something
same here man like i've never touched mech c before
what you didn't do 70s
nope
you guys are clearly more clearly more fringe than i am for sure
yeah i'll tell you the craziest one to me was uh bit tensor exchange to get some tau back in the day
send bitcoin in waited a couple hours nothing happened waited a couple more hours finally
showed up in the wallet that was that was fun
yeah it's like that middle ground where your money disappears into the ether
dude it was rough i was like what the snap is going on what did i just do
well when you when you ride that edge right you have to be willing to
like take a few l's that's just how it works
that's a good point a little bit of anxiety in the middle is not otherwise you're not living right
that's true
that's oh here we have someone else coming up everyone can come hang anyone come hang out by the
way if you have any like like interesting things to buy or strategies or whatever shoot
hey life quotes what's going on man
can anybody hear him no i can't hear you can't hear life you there
give another go uh he might be having wi-fi issues
you might have to drop and uh close up twitter and then come back
it might work we can't hear you
hello
ah there you are
what's going on guys
oh nada what you up to
um one of my shit coins is dumping right now this ai coin
akt i don't know if any of you guys holding this
this shit coin
oh yeah is it dumping right now let me see
what what did you buy it at
um i just got uh right around this area actually right around
right around this current price
akash
akash yeah
oh damn it's taking the elevator down
yeah it's a you know just an ai
narrative coin that i got into
well yeah well akash actually does stuff i've had the akash for the last several years
um so it's like it's kind of close to getting close to where i bought it
actually because it went down quite a lot
what price did it go down to
uh i think it was down to like 40 cents or something
or 30 or i don't remember it's like quite low
like right now
no no no no right now it's like buck 61
oh i was gonna say wow oh yeah that buck 61 is not a dumper
yeah it's kind of like doing a little
it like a lot of charts are kind of at a breakout level
and i think a fair number of people sort of like
um throughout some leverage especially
you know on you know on the next sort of like
you know kind of leg up and i think
there's a little bit of a liquidation event type of thing happening that's all
because also it's it tends to be tied to um trading pairs with things like atom and stuff
and when like cosmos stuff generally dips
like atoms down like 2.5 percent and um
and whatnot like you know these things tend to dip a little bit but akash has
always been hyper volatile i wouldn't even worry about it
you're akash is one of the things they're either in it for like
you know like the next couple of years of like
cloud computing and ai wave or like it's not a short-term thing
because it um it's more of a utility thing so
honestly every shit point every shit point is pretty short-term to me i have no faith in them
i'm just trying to i'm just trying to get in and get out
uh i don't really believe in any of them i don't know i guess you guys do
i don't know akash you can actually pay for uh decentralized cloud services and now gpu
services with it so it's pretty cool and they actually got usdc native on the chain
uh allow like like i remember like six months ago or something and that caused the price to really
jump from the bottom so it's they've definitely kept building through bear market so they will
definitely like i fully expect it to hit its prior high um just on like ai hype and whatever shit
you know and then just general bull market vibes i think that's fairly probable so i i just kept
mine and like i think my average price like two bucks so i wrote it all the way down to like
whatever whatever the bottom was let me see what it was actually um and i just left it alone it was
one of those plays that i just like leave alone um and it's doing fine because it's just picking up
steadily um yeah it was down to like 20 cents 20 cents and um so yeah i'm back up to almost where i
bought it and then um i didn't really add to it but i had i got the inflationary rewards because
staked over the last couple years so that kind of built up my bag a little bit so it's doing fine now
so it's it's getting close to like overall it's getting close to where i bought it at and um i think
it'll easily move higher i think it's seen it's like deepest lows already what what is the inflation
like for akash anybody know like is they they cut it a lot it used to be quite high like when i first
got it was up to 40 so like i got a lot of extra akash when it was that now it's like what 10 or
something it's uh it's like two percent real and then like 10 i think base something like that yeah
something like that like 12 maybe it's not bad now so i'm just holding on to it and by the way in
like in the volatility at those market caps is very high you just like that's just you have to
get used to it i wouldn't even call that dumping like dumping would be like oh it's down 60 or
something 10 on the way up is just not a big deal that's not to say it couldn't go down further it's
just you know it's i don't worry about it anymore i mean i rode the thing down to 20 cents so i'm doing
pretty fine right now i like where it's going now especially because they actually kept building
cool shit and actually um created an ai narrative and got usdc so you can pay for your services on
there and people are actually mining zef tokens which is what the space is a little bit about
they're mining it using the kosh network so you can actually mine using the akt token other coins
by like running um cpu mining like random x protocol like zef has you can run it on a kosh servers and
then like make more okay you can make more zef than you can like but just by burning the akt and
using it for cloud services it's kind of interesting anyway mar what's up hey what's up guys
how's everything uh cool you doing any dgen stuff you buying any any coins or something well i have a
short story i don't know if it's too short but uh you know i got into crypto back in uh 2021 my first
investment ever was shiba and i i put like three grand and i 10x it so i made like 30 000 then i
ended up losing most of the money and in some other coins like saitama and all these coins um
so then i kind of retired a little bit from crypto and um but i always wanted to get back in and then
i got some friends that you know yeah the site the saitama cult was pretty deep man yeah that's
that's some freaky bastards i bought it i bought it like i think like a a week before the las vegas
event and shit like that i went in with like eight grand ended up getting out with like 500 bucks i think
i was lucky to know whenever whenever you're you're you're like your your meme coin or whatever
is about to throw a rave you know it's time to get out yeah but you know i wasn't sure i thought i was
an expert since i picked shiba out of nowhere and you know and uh yeah it was all luck but you called
yourself like oh my god i'm a genius yeah but i even got even more lucky because then i uh you know
i got kind of out of it a little bit studied uh started liking uh learning a little bit about the
technology first uh and all that stuff and then finally uh doing the you know i had some nice money
they're safe and uh a friend of mine uh doing the ftx collab says now now you get in and i was able to
get in like any with ethereum under a thousand dollars i i got a bitcoin under twenty thousand dollars so
i have really good positions on my triple a you know my my top coins you know and then i have some
money saved to go into you know the high risk low market cap uh utility you know we have utility and
all this and i i invested some money in these coins where i got them pretty low but i'm i'm actually
you know like losing money on them and i listening to this like what what did you pick up exactly i got
these green energy this green life energy coin well i'm down like maybe 60 70 percent uh these l a
green life energy coin what does that do uh it's uh they're supposed to they actually they have invested
on uh on an app and he he's put big money on this app that's supposed to be for like rental scooters and
cars and transportation and all this you know uh and i have that one i have another blockchain that i think
i know one chain that just rugged i think or they just gave up i mean it's crazy you know i only have
like seven projects seven high risk i mostly have like ethereum bitcoin i i killed it i'm killing it
with solana you know like i'm i'm happy i got into crypto you get what i'm saying and then we did listen
to this shipment with that sounds like a lot of with the high risk high rewards which i have like seven or
eight of them i'm like i'm down like i i went in with like probably fifteen thousand dollars and i'm
probably down to like three thousand four thousand bucks or even less than that you know
i invested and you're you're you're trying really really hard to lose money yeah like almost
practically everything i have check this out i'm not sure what you're doing man
i bought 295 of of something that i forgot that i even bought they cost me like a dollar each i think
with fees and everything it was like 400 and then i get like a friend of mine on telegram yo your
shit it's already like a 60x i'm like what i even forgot that i bought bitmaps i bought like close to
i bought like 320 bitmaps but like 30 of them i i guess i was the second buyer so i have 295 bitmaps
and i'm like the one that i forgot that i even forgot i invested on is my biggest gain other than
the you know the the good coins you hear what i'm saying so i'm like sometimes you just get some stuff
and then ignore it and look at it much later i forgot i forgot about it i sort of got i invested on
this on these bitmaps i think like in april when they were like a at a dollar but then after fees
i think it was like two bucks each or some shit like that i'm like holy shit and it's like at one
time it was worth i don't know like 30 000 40 000 i think it's back down i think the floor price now
is like 50 60 bucks and then they gave me like a free airdrop of these coins that were worth like 700
bucks still have them there those bmps whatever it is you know um but it's unbelievable man are you
you make money and you don't even know you you forgot you even own the whatever you want i'm sure
like i've i've heard stories that people have owned nfts and they even forgot that they own that nft and
it's worth thousands i had um i had my um kujira tokens from the terra crash and you know like i
actually um didn't lose any value in them because like they created a new blockchain and stuff and like
soon as i got them they were pretty much the same value that like when they i i got airdropped for
the new chain because i had the old token whatever and um pretty much from the beginning like i was at
the value that i actually paid for them which is kind of cool i figured they'd dump into you know
who knows when but actually like i didn't even look for like until last week and i'm like oh
shit my coins of 10x it's pretty good and uh so you know that the project actually is doing quite well
and actually that same bag will probably 10x again if i just wait so that's kind of cool i think it
might actually be 100x and i didn't have that much of it but like um it's like a credible uh
um it's a credible thing to do really well well yeah i mean i'm in a few projects they just you
know like this guy says all the fucking i'm building a real app i'm not doing like a copy and paste this
app has cost me like 50 60 grand the big the big issue are and i think there's another project there
that he got in touch with that i'm not involved that they're and maybe you understand this a little
bit they're trying to bring web 2 and web 3 like on the customer side using the app it will be web 2
and on the crypto you know the investor side will be web 3 you get what i'm saying so he was able to
figure that out i'm also in a layer zero but i got a few people that know a lot about blockchains
that are saying that's a fake layer zero it's not really a really a real layer zero and i'm in
another so you're on the you're like on the fringe of the internet then you're like what you're researching
on youtube or some shit or what yeah i mean wait no no no i don't i don't watch youtube at all
no no where are you getting your where are you getting your ideas from like just googling stuff or what
i i i speak to a lot of uh of uh uh zen uh uh guys miners and stuff like that and they know they
know their shit you know about coins and contracts and all that and they're like uh the guy was like
god this might not be a layer zero completely you know uh but at the end you know my money's dead
we don't even know what the fuck is really gonna pump or not you know what's uh and then i i'm in
another late uh leisure one that they're trying to sign um real utility with truck drivers they're
trying to do the the contracts for the truck drivers to get paid faster you know stuff like
that you know but uh but i'm happy i got into the top coins man i'm happy i bought bitcoin and
and ethereum so i was kind of scared with solana i really love uh avalanche you know
i got uh i'm happy that at least most of my portfolio went to those triple a coins you know
yeah but yeah you're doing well out of my high risk the best one that's done i didn't i forgot that
i even own it that's how crazy crypto is you know i forgot i'm like oh well i i'm like i'm gonna invest
on this because these guys are doing their buying didn't even know what the bit i i sort of got when
i bought bitmap i didn't even know it's supposed to be like a virtual land and stuff like that whatever
it is i had no idea what i was buying sometimes it's crazy it's crazy sometimes you know
cool well anyway um yeah good combo everybody um no one else wants to hop up uh ask anything we can
kind of break for the evening i think i got some work tomorrow wife's like hey stop talking with your
twitter retard friends and time for sleep i'm like all right fine so anyway um
we'll catch up later guys hopefully have a good night
yep catch you later guys thanks for having us
