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What’s missing in DeSci?
Recorded: April 2, 2025 Duration: 1:03:18Space Recording
Short Summary
The conversation covers the launch of a project addressing health issues in Nigeria, the development of a new blockchain infrastructure for decentralized science, and the importance of partnerships and alliances. It also highlights the trend towards creating more accessible content to educate about decentralized science and the innovation of a compliant ledger for institutional blockchain adoption.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, hello. Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the DSiMic back here with Erin McGinnis and we'll be covering what's missing in the PSY.
I see a couple familiar names so I'll send some invites up onto
stage right now and we can kick this convo off. I guess I can dive into some inspiration for the space, have been having a lot of different conversations lately of
either different things specific projects might need or also the broader shifts happening right
now for scientists, especially with some changes with the CDC, post some of the announcements
yesterday. So a lot of different opportunities that you side
could be addressing, either from the side of what scientists might need, as well as from the side of
what builders and founders and some of the different teams might need to get to that next level.
Vitamin C, welcome up to the stage. Would love to hear some of your thoughts as well as any updates on your guys' project.
Hi, hi. Hello, everyone.
We just came out of another space where there was an interesting discussion regarding DSI as both a scientifically grounded space and a
essentially token or speculative space and it was interesting to hear how there very strong sides, especially in terms of DCI being focused on progress and on evolution,
as it absolutely should. But at the same time, there were a few speakers that were outside of
science and are mostly focused on either Web3 or speculation or essentially
not into as much D-Site because of the progress.
And I think we heard a lot of people agreeing in the end that what's missing in Desai is that kind of gap bridging where
a lot of projects are trying and some more successfully than others to bridge that gap.
But the need to connect both is most likely crucial to the long-term success, which is just making sure that both your tokenomics
and the reason for you even having a token
and the way you market it
and the way you get people actually interested in it
has to be a big part of your project
and not just a sole focus on, on research and utility and,
and developing progress. So I think what's missing potentially in DeSci is kind of that
mass appeal that is being built towards a hundred percent, but kind of bridging that gap,
I think is super crucial, especially
what's been going on in the U.S. in the last few months, because now is the time for D-side
to bridge that gap for people and to show, like, hey, like, I think it was brought up
in the other space, because I didn't read that news yesterday, that I think, I think 5,000 scientists were laid off on April Fool's, and that was not a
joke. If someone can, before I, I mean, I will Google this right after, but if someone can.
Yeah, I also know that there were like four of the heads of the different CDC organizations, and there are 27 in total, four of those were removed.
So people kind of at all different stages from that leadership level,
as well as I heard many scientists.
I don't know the exact number, so I'll look that up if you want to keep talking.
So I'll look that up if you want to keep talking.
I was mostly finished with it because, yeah, it is upheaval for sure happening right now in the U.S.
And hopefully in the end it will bring about only positive changes and I hope that one of them is going to be a
broader adoption of
which was going to be hopefully
free of a lot of the
concerns that
or a lot of the issues that we've seen
kind of crop up
in the last
few months essentially
Absolutely in the last few months, essentially.
Absolutely.
Just kind of a quick scroll through.
I'm seeing a range from the CDC, 2,400.
People were laid off.
The FDA, 3,500.
NIH, 1,200. NIH, 1,200.
CMS, 300.
So, yeah. That's like just pink slip, you're fired?
I believe so, because to go through that many people that quick,
to go through that many people that quick.
I don't know if there was a whole kind of structure
in place for replacement.
I don't know all the details.
Yeah, some of this positioning is is it's under the efforts with doge of just trying to bring
more efficiency um so i think we'll see how this plays out in a positive aspect great time to go
headhunting for your dsai project definitely very much so. In the last space in that conversation,
was there any discussion around how to better position DSi in a way that could be more
attractive to the masses? And I guess just clarity there is that appealing to scientists and doctors
or trying to appeal to crypto masses?
I think there were discussions
kind of on all fronts,
but I think the core was that
there needs to be an appeal
outside of both crypto and doctors. Like you want to bring back focus
towards science and just utilize the growing worldwide adoption of Web3. Yeah, it's still,
it's in a very early stages comparatively, but most likely in the next few years, it's going to be as often happens with
technology faster and faster and faster. And D-Sci just needs to kind of jump on towards that.
There was a great point regarding onboarding both doctors and those looking for
is looking for essentially speculative hype is focusing on sub-Saharan Africa just because
solving a lot of life expectancy and health issues there is going to bring about essentially
more productivity.
And I don't remember the figure, i i'm not exaggerating right now it
was like over over the course of a uh possibly a one lifetime i think it was like something in the
quadrillions of dollars which is ridiculous to think about i'm gonna have to double check that
figure don't take my word for it but essentially yeah like focusing potentially health-related desai on sub-saharan africa
as a interesting incentive for both the emerging markets and potentially western markets and
western kind of western audiences like hey like, like these projects are, you know, helping out people and
doing it sustainably and doing it because it's going to bring about this effective change in
the world over the course of essentially a few decades. So that was an interesting point brought
up in terms of biomed and health.
Interesting.
Cool.
Are there any projects that you've been keeping your eye on kind of leading the way in this
or maybe any things you're doing internally?
Also, would love to extend an invitation
to anyone else listening in on this conversation
to request a mic and come up and
share some thoughts as well. I'm going to speak until I see somebody else come up, I guess.
Perfect. Yeah. We've seen, you know, Design Nigeria has been kind of one of one of the ones that popped up I don't
specifically know of any other kind of emerging or or bigger or known DCI
projects that are focusing on on sub-saharan Africa I would love love love
to hear and I think especially after that discussion, I'm going to take a better look.
We do have a project that we're right now looking at June or July to launch,
which is essentially, I believe we mentioned this on a previous space,
is helping pregnant women in Nigeria
have historically vitamin C deficiency across the board,
like in a significant part of the population.
So I think that's one of the things
that we are looking to help solve as a trial,
largely because it's doable,
it's not insanely financially costly to implement,
and the long-term health impacts can be significant both for the mother and the child.
So that's kind of going to be our first trial in solving that.
I see Ed's come up, so I'm going to mute my mic now.
Cool. We're looking forward to seeing more progress there ed welcome uh thanks for having me up um i see one of the issues here is the alliance structure
i spent a lot of time in global meetings on science and that a lot of people don't realize how powerful, I guess, whether we call it traditional or industrial science or corporate science or whatever, and their funding structures and their connections with academia and all that.
all that um whether it be in health or agriculture that i focus on a lot but they're certainly
related the alliance structures that these industries have are just tremendous power
um like there's the alliance for science out of cornell that has really been capturing like a third world country, especially Africa.
It's funded by the Gates Foundation.
Pretty much everybody, if you look at their team, it's people of color, but behind it is Bill Gates and exploiting a lot of these countries in their science.
a lot of these countries in their science.
So I think DSAI, as much as it's decentralized,
has to realize that alliances are really where power has been controlled
and build alliances because that's where your impact really happens and um you've also got
aim for c which is another gates initiative that he pushed into usda that's probably the biggest
alliance of both financial whether it be the World Bank, World Economic Forum, World Resources Institute, the UN,
SEGAR, the, you know, sort of science end, all these structures, and then they bring countries
in, they bring academia in. And so whenever they push for anything, they have this huge,
massive alliance, even companies that compete with each
other like Pepsi and Coke or something. They're still part of alliances to protect their science
and their industries. And actually what I see going on in Washington right now with cutting a lot of these departments is being applauded by big science industries.
The same as they did in the late 80s when they cut out a lot of funding that went to land-grant
universities to support projects that were for the people sort of public projects.
And what happened is all the industries moved in and took over the grad
students work and what was done and sorry i got a caller interrupted you for a second
um so you know they're kind of applauding this situation um In regenerative ag, we've gotten an awful lot of great scientists that used to work for USDA or used to work for industry or academia.
And we're frustrated because the good ones doing good work, every time they would try to publish something, it would get squashed.
Every time they would try to publish something, it would get squashed.
And they became like whistleblowers.
And then they basically had to go into like more desi areas, which is great for us.
But it limits our effects in like government groups, which, you know, we should hope the government is representing the people.
But unfortunately, that's the biggest problem.
Bobby Kennedy realized that.
That's why he went independent and kept explaining the duopoly in Washington that is really corporate
captured.
If you go to any of the meetings, you realize that, whether they be the global meetings
or national meetings meetings it's the
same same thing all over it's just the power of of big influences like bill gates jeff bezos
you know all those people that really um control the money um control what is really done in research by controlling the money through all
these alliances. So I think we're going to need an alliance structure basically to compete
because that's unfortunately the way the world is now. That's my comments on it.
Are there any particular organizations that you might have seen create this structure in a good way that might be able to kind of incorporate in other elements that are unique to DSI?
I guess are there any models that you think this space should be really looking at
in terms of trying to emulate or expand from?
There's the lesson that a lot of organizations that started out good
and then as they grew,
they needed more and more funding. So when they needed more and more funding,
they would get it from the corrupt organizations.
And then once that happens,
then they become dependent on those big fundings
by those corrupt organizations.
I attended a lot of meetings,
like with the first UN Food System Summit, and I would get emails afterwards from,
you know, some of the biggest NGOs relating with ag and the environment.
You know, I won't give names but somewhere like world wildlife fund nature
conservancy all those big organizations and they you know with high ranking people within them
and they'd say i really like what you have to say i really think that's a lot of good stuff
unfortunately we're beholding to our funding sources same in washington you know
you have all these politicians now with citizens united went in that you know get their primary
funding from big organizations and the rich and so they really become stuck. And we see it over and over.
You know, these good groups that start out small and good with good intentions.
All of a sudden, when you need more and more funding, then they jump in and fund you.
And then all of a sudden, you're corrupted and you're beholding to their thing.
beholding to their thing. So maybe because of Web3, because of crypto, all that, another structure
could be built with good intentions. You know, could we get crypto to really get into that good
intentions and where it's not all about, you know, control by big money? Hopefully, that's my hope. And we've got the
dedicated scientists, you know, and but our de-sci scientists also have to think about what are they
doing? You know, is it all about the money? Or can we, you know, do all right? Do we need to have
high, high profits on everything, which is what's gone wrong with science?
Can we figure out a way to survive and do good work?
I mean, farmers have had to learn that.
You don't get rich, but at least you're doing good.
And if you can at least hang in there, that's okay. The fact that we can't go away for world vacations and have yachts and everything,
it doesn't bother us because we live in beautiful environments
and we can do good and produce good food to make people healthy.
That should be satisfying enough.
If we can survive and live a normal life, that's good.
But if it's going to be all about profit potentials and quick money and all that kind of thing, which we see a lot of that in crypto, the gambling sort of thing, pitch money into something.
And then all of a sudden, you know, it makes some money and then you pull it all out and run away.
Then we're just creating the same problem that we're trying to solve. So I think that's where
there's going to have to be some soul searching in this and some alliance, as I said, alliance
building around some principles. That's what regenerative Vegas had to do. We don't say to a farmer that if you do practices that aren't good means you can't be part of it.
But we want to hear from you that you're going to at least go in the direction of trying to do better.
And trying to do something that's better for all.
And so I think it's going to have to model that sort of approach to things.
Whether or not that can happen, we can sort that out.
The people that are just in it for the greed and getting away untraining, I guess,
because most of the people in DSI went up through the system. They were trained in the academic system,
which is very competitive and not so much collaborative. And you're put into a narrow box
and you don't ever understand the holistic understandings. I hear that all the time from
grad students. Like they've trained me in something specific, but they don't tell me what the big picture is.
They keep me away from that.
And that's where I think some of those things we have to understand and try to pull ourselves away from the mindset that's caused all this problem.
Yeah, I definitely agree. I think there's a lot of untraining as well as kind of retraining that might be beneficial to advancing DSI forward in some of these different projects. Earlier this morning, just quick scroll on X, I feel like I saw a couple different organizations, maybe in the wider space, especially focused on more regenerative topics, say how they're leaving the crypto side of it and just that that model hasn't yet worked for them. So I think there's a lot more kind of reworking
and exploration needed to be done still to kind of work through all of the different
challenge spots to make the projects work seamlessly. One thing that I've been seeing
for a while is just the opportunity to learn more effectively from projects that have come before.
I feel like DSI hasn't always done the best job of connecting with people leading the open science movement, which has been going on for decades, or different leaders of some of these organizations.
And especially now, if there's this big layoff happening tied with other NIH grants not being
as robust to different scientists, there might be this major opportunity right now to capture
some of that attention and knowledge and then leverage it or evolve it into a new way
that could maybe have some really important or widespread impact. So I'm hoping that with some
of these shifts, we might see some more of that connection and actually be able to kind of learn and evolve from some of this
already established knowledge because they've likely tried a lot of similar things. And yes,
the world is different today than it was before, but there still might be a lot more we could be
learning from people and organizations that have tried things previously.
I think getting opportunities to speak to classes in academia of students and especially grad students would be really helpful.
I've been trying to break into that little bit. I'm going to be speaking to
a class at Adolfi University in Long Island next week. And that's what I do. I bring up the things
that they're not being told and the opportunities in there. I mean, I focus on regenerative
agriculture and health, but I also bring it in. I try to tie in as much as I mean, I focus on regenerative agriculture and health, but I also bring it in.
I try to tie in as much as I can decentralized science and in it and the opportunities there.
And whether it be speaking in academia, which I think is really crucial because so in other words, we got to get the students getting a more holistic mindset to their future than what they're often being trained in academia and also doing it to the public.
You know, there's it's surprising how much the public is really interested in hearing talks, especially live locally,
about science and learning about science. And because everybody realized it's surprising
how many people are like kind of closet explorers of science
in just the real world, you know, beyond their regular job.
And at our local land grant university, a bunch of grad students started
doing something called the Science Cafe. And so they went out and got a local venue and they would,
they got a little funding to be able to buy pizzas to have attract people in and they would
have their grad students or a professor speak to the public
and it wasn't perfect you know it was a little bit pushing a little bit of the academics you
know point of view to it but it did help it was a good thing to do um to get that out there because
that's where we start to build momentum that's where we start to build momentum. That's where we start to get the media, local media interested.
And of course you get local media interested and then all of a sudden a
little bit larger media hears about it.
And all of a sudden people start talking about it.
I mean,
that's what we did in regenerative agriculture because it was started by a
bunch of farmers pretty much in remote rural
areas with nobody around them and yet now regenerative is a term that is exploded around
the world and is there's now regenerative everything whether it be medical economics
regenerative insurance i mean it's just amazing.
And it started with just farmers out in rural areas, you know, just keep going.
You just got to keep working on it.
Keep spreading the word.
The whole thing is bringing collaborations together.
That's what fortunately farmers do.
They realize collaboration is huge and connecting to the public, connecting to other
farmers, connecting to scientists, connecting to the whole
system. So I think that's where we're going to grow.
Absolutely.
Vitamin C, we'd love for you to elaborate on
a tweet you just made about educating people on DSi through approachable projects instead of difficult to grasp science.
We'd love to hear more thoughts on this topic.
Yeah, so this kind of was brought up at one point in the last spaces as well.
This kind of was brought up at one point in the last spaces as well.
So basically, when you join a lot of DSi spaces, you hear a lot of really interesting, really unique discussions, but that are at the same time are either not interesting or difficult to understand for, you know, whether it's Web3 investors or people looking to get into either crypto or DSI or people just looking for some more information. Whereas, essentially, if you work towards educating it
through an approachable project or an approachable figure,
say, like Carl Sagan in...
I actually don't...
It was slightly before my time,
so I don't remember if it was the 60s or 70s.
You know, new de Grasse Tyson, to a certain extent, in, like, the 70s. You know, new de Grasse Tyson to a certain extent in like the 2010s, Bill Nye the
science guy, but essentially having some type of either figure or project that is aiming to educate
about DSi because DSi is multiple things. And I think that's that potentially gets either lost or forgotten at some points during the discussions because to some
people decide is like a investment slash funding mechanism to other people decide
is about decentralization of data to other others, it's about scientific progress that is maybe less connected
to power structures and more accessible and free. But it's all of those things at the same time,
and kind of leading people towards understanding that effectively, I think is a key. And that needs to be done approachably
without people having to join either a DSi space or read a DSi paper and either need chat GPT to
dumb it down or to make it approachable and understandable, or just kind of leaving the
space because like, well, they're talking about, you know, higher concepts that sound like they may be cool, but I don't understand
like half the words.
Yeah, I think DSAI can definitely fall into the trap of kind of creating over convolution,
especially on the side of scientific jargon, as well as technical jargon and being kind of crossing over into both of those
domains. We have doubled the opportunity to just add complexity where that wasn't really needed
and creating a kind of opportunity for people to get lost and not be able to keep moving forward in those conversations.
I think as more DSI projects are advancing, there will also be inherently more invitation through those projects for people to participate and learn through that participation and behavior.
learn through that participation and behavior. Over the past couple days, I've been having
a handful of conversations with people about just governance models and what voting should
really be looking like and how really that should be coming from behavior. Like the behavior should be someone's vote rather than just clicking yes or no, but then their actions and behavior don't coincide with what they clicked on a screen.
And just designing for how can people's participation or whatever direction that might be, be the actual mechanism for boating instead.
And I think Desai is a really interesting position because,
especially for some of the more health-related things, like we all have to eat.
We all have to, like, move our bodies and sleep.
So I think there's a lot of different ways that that level of engagement could be made
and then because science is also so hands-on from a wet lab type of setting or even from a
computational setting, there are a lot of opportunities for people to be voting through those different actions as well.
Seeing a couple other familiar names down below. So wanting to send an invitation to anyone listening in to request the mic,
join up on stage.
If you have any thoughts on what might be missing in DSi
or anything you're hoping to see. Maybe you're building towards it
within a project of your own or it could also be kind of a far out there vision or dream that you
would love to see materialized and there might be some of the right people in the room here today to
help make that happen. So that's only possible to make happen though,
if we put some of those ideas and visions out there.
Also, if there's someone else that you think
should be part of this conversation,
share the space or send an invite over to them
for them to join in too.
Cool.
As this convo is progressing, either
ed or vitamin C, any other
topics that might have been
circulating in your mind, but maybe
we jumped over to another topic
before you had time to dive into it?
I think the title of today's space is probably the most important title I've seen in D-Cyc.
I mean, I think that's what we have to do. You know, it's not, we have to realize what's missing for success.
Because that's always the biggest problem. It's,
it's figuring out what we're doing. I mean, that's what science is about. You know,
it's challenging what we're doing all the time and, and finding out what's wrong with what we're
doing and, or what we're thinking or what we're experimenting on and making it better and i think we just need
to have a bunch of these what's missing i think it's the most important thing we can do
if we're going to succeed as a movement and to grow and to sort of you know become the status quo of science with the proper evolution of science
that is important in science
because the biggest thing that's happened
in traditional science is it's been stymied.
I mean, we have all this technology
to do all these wonderful things
and we're not using it for the good.
All the good gets set aside or patented away and bought up
or hidden in journals that nobody can see.
And so the practitioners never get access to them,
never get to use them.
And we need to change that.
So I think this is something that I would say for 2025, what's missing in DSI is going to be the question we need to really answer.
questions that maybe you had of related to this topic of what's missing in DSI,
maybe at the beginning of 2024, that you've seen the space or maybe specific projects
do a good job of answering or at least experimenting on?
I think that it continues to survive is probably the biggest thing.
Has it moved forward?
Yeah, a little bit.
I think even two or three years ago, it maybe had a little more growth considering.
I think 2024 was a little, maybe a little stagnating a bit um
because i think and but i think that's kind of natural you know it's it's what can we do it's
under you know a lot of mindset change it's a lot of finding people to collaborate with, learning how do we communicate, how do we find other people in other spaces.
It takes a little time to organize something like this because it's so enormous.
As I said, in regenerative ag, it took us decades to get some momentum.
And then you hit a point, you know,
we hit a point about 10 years ago, I guess, where all of a sudden, you know, we had enough momentum, we had enough understanding of what we were really doing. We had enough science to be able to actually go out and tell the world that, yes, this is the future.
It's that we don't have to feel nervous about that.
So, you know, it's in the beginning, it's I think it's good to just survive and keep working on it.
And as I said, keep figuring out what aren't we doing.
I mean, as I said, this topic today is, to me,
the most important topic that we probably need to do
for the next couple of years to keep going
and to gain the momentum it really needs to become a global thing that's
well established and as i said in the very beginning building the alliance structure
that we need to compete with the existing alliance structure
that is just so enormous and powerful that that's what always holds change back.
Absolutely. We're seeing some of that shift in opportunity right now with, unfortunately, all of the layoffs, at least happening in the U.S., for maybe some new kind
of collaborations or kind of reorganization of people, of people maybe who have been building
on the D-side side of things, pairing with those who have been kind of in that traditional
institutional government system for a while.
Gianluca, welcome.
Hi, guys.
Thank you for letting me in.
I really appreciate it.
Yes, super glad to have you up here and would love to hear your thoughts on what's missing
in DeFi as well as any thoughts you might have based on the
convo happening so far? Yes. So this is based on my experience. So forgive me if I miss something,
but as you know, we are building a layer one for DSi and that expose us to the possibility to speak
with different types of projects and institutions and companies.
So because we are, you know, infrastructure, we speak with everybody.
And the first thing that I am finding is that there is a lack of proper content.
Sometimes I post small classifications, small definitions, but if you go around and you speak with people about DSAI, the majority will tell you that DSAI is just DeFi applied to the research funding, which in general, in the design.
And, you know, they are connected.
Obviously, the funding is one of the four pillars, but there are other pillars which are important.
For example, the disclosure.
Today, in the traditional science, a lot of research and a lot of great results never see the light.
And many times because of censorship,
because you don't know where the interests are, so they are interest-driven and politically driven in some cases.
So some of the best researchers don't even make it to the light. Someone writes an article and gets buried in a conference
proceeding or it's completely not even make it through the full process because
somehow it's from the institutional side that research doesn't even make it there. So
that's one of the first places aside of funding that decentralized science can help.
So making justice on the fact that if you write a breakthrough,
you don't have to be worried someone is going to kill you
if you start talking about it.
But there are other things, which is, for example, the ownership.
Better systems to guarantee that the ownership of whatever it's done is credited. There are a lot of research
that are discovered and rediscovered by researchers, and there is no good way to find out unless
someone finds out accidentally in most cases, and they end up in a lawsuit or they end up
in someone who publicly stating something.
It's not like for a patent, for example.
You have a paper and maybe a paper on the same research.
It happened to me, to be honest.
You find that another researcher four, five, ten years later,
reinvents the same thing, and there's no way for you to even get the right merits about that.
But there is also the integrity.
So I write a paper or I do a research or I invent a drug
or whatever I want to do, I produce data.
And I need to be able to do two important things.
One is guarantee the integrity of that data
because at any time if someone comes and is arguing about the fact
that my finding may or might not be right,
he's going to inquire for the repeatability and to look at the data I used for my finding.
Now, at that point, I have to provide the data, but I also have to provide the proof that that is the data I actually used
and not is a new data set or something else that could be spoiled, could be fabricated.
There are many things you can do.
And the same is also because whatever you build in science, if it's a drug,
if someone gets hurt when the drug is on the market,
you need to be able to demonstrate that the drug was produced in the right way, was not contaminated, that when they did the clinical trials, the clinical trials were not fabricated, were done with data that was genuinely created in the right places, and it was not generated or artificially compromised.
compromised. So there is now the technology through the blockchains and through the
decentralization. At Circular, we are specialized in creating a compliant ledger to facilitate
institutions to adopt them so that there's no excuse. And the extraordinary thing that I observe
is that when they find out that there is the compliance covered and the costs are acceptable, they have
an epiphany because now they see a solution for some problems. But here it is again. We need to
distribute content, quality content, and I heard Ed now in a couple of different spaces. He has been studying history of decentralization in science. So it's good. It's great.
Let's get on that on those information. Let's create some good content, some time to distribute. Let's educate.
These spaces, incredible. And I think we just need to put together this content and make it very easy to read for anybody.
When you say content, are you picturing like different articles, like slide deck people can click through, more posts?
Like what that can mean so many different things for different people.
Yeah. So a very quick example.
I just made a post a few days ago.
Why this I explain to people why you want to use this I?
That is probably the easiest thing to find.
But then if, you know, even the story of what are the classifications, what are the applications, what are the different, I want to say use cases, but at least the verticals,
explain that there is much more than simply a token. It's very important that there is that
token, of course, but it's not all about funding the research because at some point it becomes
just another rag bull like every other meme coin. You can say anything on the paper you want to do with the money you raise.
But if there is no opinion on what you are trying to build,
that can easily be just a Ragpull.
Something you build, you collect the money.
People think they're funding a breakthrough and instead the money is gone.
So let's build a good paradigm where we educate people on what is credible, what is not.
So how to select the projects, how to become part of the projects. And if I try to do some time,
I really have limited time, but I think that there are so many experts that I see in this call.
So many experts that I see in this call.
And you are great.
I mean, you are educating the industry.
Do it sometime with some graphical content that stays, that remains,
so that is available and stays there on social media.
Definitely.
And I think with some of the releases with TrashGPT this week in particular, making good graphics to go along with different topics is understandable both to other projects or people in the space as well as those outside of it and creating that invitation in.
and creating that invitation in. If people haven't yet checked out some of Sean's work,
see him listening down below. He's been doing a great job of kind of accumulating some of this
information and writing different books and putting it into forms to kind of help connect
a lot of those dots for different people.
So definitely go check out some of the things he's up to.
At Muse Matrix, a new cohort of DSI fellows is also available.
So if there's anyone you know who's interested in learning more about DSI, that's an option too.
that that's an option too.
And I feel like each day I'm seeing more and more posts
kind of shared out.
So, so many cool projects within the ecosystem.
Amazing.
Ed, Venom and C, any kind of follow-up thoughts
based on what Gianluca was sharing?
Yeah, you made some really great points.
And I think I don't know a lot about AI.
I play with it some.
In my regenerative agriculture work, I realized that if I use something like ChatGPpt or perplexity or some of the big platforms that you know it's
missing a lot because of you know the old garbage in garbage out so it's really confusing
so i'm working with some people to build a separate system and feed it sort of regeneratively as we're sort of saying and with the knowledge that
isn't necessarily as he mentioned you know a lot of it's in academic papers that are hidden away
they are not a lot of the work we do we just don't take the time because the system broke down
it used to be that when farmers over my
lifetime, when I would come up with a good idea or I would travel around, meet other farmers and
find a good idea, I would come back and my people in academia, my researchers, my scientists would
say, what did you find out? What did you see? And I would tell them and then they would go out and check it out and
if it was really something good they would write it up and try to disseminate it um that just
doesn't happen anymore so many times i you know i'm in debates with traditional ag industrial
science and they'll say to me you know where's the peer-to-peer review and i'm like
that's not the farmer's job you know there are innovators but unless institutions come out and
care that maybe they have something once in a while like they used to it doesn't do any good
you need to do that work now ai can probably do that work now um to bring
that together maybe ai could take i mean how many spaces if we had and i don't know how much they're
able to be archived and then put into text and fed into a dsci ai that sort of then can sort of crunch some of the principles that it's finding within DSI,
our collective strategy. We had to do that in regenerative ag. We had to come up with
some principles. So we came up with the five principles of soil health that are universal,
with the five principles of soil health that are universal, that we all in regenerative ag uses our
universal principles. And then we had a guy that used to work for USDA that joined us who said,
you need to add context because wherever you are in the world, nature works the same,
but people are in different context. And so that became a very important addition. So, and it's been expanded a little
bit. A few groups have, you know, added a few more principles to it or structure to a basic framework.
But I think in DSI, we may need to decide, you know, some principles that unite us and distinguish us from what's wrong with the, you know, traditional
system. So again, I don't know a lot about deeply about AI and how that could do it. But
maybe there's some possibilities to help us because I have gone through with AI and I'll direct a conversation and teach it a little bit about
what it's missing in our conversation.
And then at the end or after a couple of days of doing that, I'll ask it to write a summary
of 500 words or something, certain size.
And it does do a surprisingly good job at times and so I
think there is the capability of there to help us to organize sort of our thoughts and and maybe
develop some principles and some ethics and some reality to economics and everything in what we're
trying to do and be able to put that together in a way
that I don't think there's really a group in DSI that can focus enough on doing that alone.
And because we don't want it to be controlled by a particular group of 10 or 20 or something people.
And I think that's the power of D-Sci.
It's the power of regenerative agriculture. We don't have a main organization. We have a lot of
small groups that collaborate together. But bringing AI to be able to cross-reference all those small organizations
and find the commonalities that can then speak to the public
and to funders and everybody that has an interest in it
maybe can be beneficial.
Absolutely. Definitely, definitely agree. Well, we're approaching the top of the hour,
so I want to thank everyone for joining in this week. We'll be back next week, same time,
diving into another DSI topic. If you have a topic or a broad question like what's missing in DSI that you think we should be discussing as a community or if there's kind
of a corner of DSI that you think it's a good time to dive into, maybe highlight different projects in that sector.
Definitely reach out either to the account, Desai Mike, or myself, Erin, down below in the listeners, and we can get that scheduled out.
In the meantime, we'll also have a space on Friday of Desai What Did You Get Done This Week, a weekly space to be sharing some of those updates.
If you're not able to make it,
it's still worthwhile to reply back to that post
and share a brief overview.
So other projects in the ecosystem can also see what ways
they might be able to collaborate with you
and touch on some of the different points
we've talked of today,
of just
how more collaboration can help advance projects either from that data technical infrastructure
side as well as a co-funding side of things too and kind of reach across these different dsci
pillars or domains so that's another invitation seeing more more and more DSI spaces pop up as well. If you're in
Europe or want an excuse to go to London sometime soon, I would love to extend an invitation about
DSI London, which is happening on April 12th and 13th, the longest standing, biggest DSI conference.
So really great time and space to either be able to share different updates about your project,
as well as be inspired by other builders and people leading in the space. And I personally think it's a great balance across DeFi folks,
as well as people that are in the traditional institutional sciences as well and helping to
bridge more of those connections. So would love to see you there. There are a ton of other DeFi DCI events happening around the world upcoming over the next month too from Berlin to I think
Krakow or somewhere else in Poland stuff happening in Boston and San Francisco and Dubai
but if you're in a location that I'm not mentioning right now, that means there's opportunity likely in your region to host a DSI event.
And if you haven't hosted a lot of events before and that's the blocker, please reach out as well.
Would love to help share any tips to help make that happen.
Because moving DSI forward really is this
collaborative community effort and to make it become what I think we can all see it become
that takes all of us participating or activating different communities that we might have access to
so if you have questions or need help on that side of things, uh, please reach out as well.
Amazing.
Uh, well, thanks so much for everyone for tuning in.
If after this space, you have some thoughts ruminating on what else might be missing in
DSI or different opportunities you might see, post that out, tag DSI Mike, or reply back to the post and to keep that conversation going because
like Ed was saying, this isn't just a single space conversation. This is a question we should
be engaging with over the next year and likely beyond that as well. So if you have more thoughts
on this, I personally would love to stay engaged on this topic,
and I'm sure others here as well would too.
So definitely share out those thoughts.
I think that that's most of the housekeeping.
Ed, vitamin C, any last thoughts before we might close out for today?
Just thank you so much to Aaron for hosting DSiMic.
Always a pleasure to listen in and speak.
Thanks for joining.
Absolute ditto to that.
You're really holding down the continued discussion.
That's what's hugely important.
Appreciate it.
Well, we'll be back here Friday with project updates and next week, Wednesday, with a new D-side topic.
So I'll see you back here then.
And then hopefully in person in London
because I think these are kind of maintenance
to keep things going and be able to bridge
connections for all of us all over the place. But that in-person connection is where we can really
kind of advance some of that knowledge sharing and then bring it back to our own projects,
our own communities, whatever that might be. So, would love to see you in London or at some other upcoming event too.
But thanks so much for everyone for joining in and talk again soon. Thank you.
