Hey folks welcome to the space we are excited to be talking about well a lot of
things today but for one you know the markets have been really interesting for
the last few days and it's exciting to see what it's exciting to see what the what
future may hold so we'll be talking about that and we are of course happy to
be partnering with our partner for the day which is Polkadot so we'd like to
start with a little bit of news and just kind of what's happening for people in
their space so I'll pass it over to Alice. Alice welcome to the space I'm just
curious to hear what kinds of things are happening in your world. Hello good
morning what is happening in my world I think I'm looking at different different
ecosystems in crypto right now and I'm I'm really excited by the different ways
of how they are governing themselves because I think it's it sort of will
determine their eventual fate right governance systems are like the brain of
an ecosystem it's where we bring people together and where we can find ways of
sort of turbocharging the development initially you have a handful of people
starting an ecosystem like I know Cosmos Cosmos has a very interesting
Genesis story but in Solana I don't know it and our lunch and all of these
that they have very different origin ideas of what they want to build they
come over very good things but eventually they need to hand it over to to the
broader community so this is part of the progressive decentralization that we often
talk about and I'm really fascinated by the different governance systems that
they're coming up recently had conversations with Cardano guys about
how they are like how they are doing their first steps into transitioning
from their foundation that I think that that treasury is like one billion
dollars which is really insane really really impressive and they're having a
grants program and then in the future they plan to hand it over to governance
so yeah really exciting things where I always enjoy to learn more yeah sure you
know I mean we have spent actually several spaces talking about governance
which is an exciting topic if we want to touch on that we can hear but I
guess the question I ask is well what about like you know some of the OG
layer ones like ripple for example you know the XRP ledger there is you know I
mean they have unique node lists UNLs and it's slightly different in the way
you know their approach to decentralization so I mean you could be
successful at one and not be fully decentralized even though that's one of
the presumed to be one of the primary ethos right of crypto but yeah I mean
Alice what do you I mean what do you think about less decentralized L1 you
know some of them can't do can't achieve its success you know in specific areas
I'm curious to hear your thoughts yeah personally not too excited about them I
mean the technology so it comes down to technology right and so blockchain is a
technology and the first blockchain Bitcoin found a way to be fully
decentralized and then over time people started to ask a question okay maybe we
can have for example blockchains that are controlled by companies or consortiums
and so I'm not typically the guy that says it has to be fully decentralized in
the end it's technology that is useful for us and should be helping us and so
we should actually find systems where they are very effective and pragmatic in
terms of delivering solutions for us right and so it's more it's more a way of
finding ways of how we can build systems that requires little trust it's
just the technology of trust and trustlessness right and so I think we
should be flexible here but I'm ripple I'm not a big fan okay let me let's not
you know maybe not specifically on particular layer ones but you know when
you launch the network or launch any product like you end up figuring out
other things don't work or things are bad right so you know in some ways it's
easier for a centralized power now now I love decentralization but I also love
playing devil's advocate because I feel like if there's a view not being said
then you know I got a stated so basically a lot of the views I say and
include certainly all the views are not financial advice and everyone has to do
their own research but try to play the other side I'd say you know it's
easier to upgrade a network it's easier to find bugs if you find bad
actors in a more centralized network with maybe eventually over time you
become decentralized so I mean that's just one thought I mean you know we got
John here who does a lot with video games you know and well you know for
example you don't put like the game design on the network for a bunch you
know for all the masses so John I mean I'm curious how does that do you think
that applies not just a game design but to you know L ones or is that just
you know foolish way to think I'm sorry I just just joined here question one more
yeah all good yeah we're getting we're all getting warmed up so yeah and by the
way we kind of normally start with news so I mean kind of dive straight into it
so we've been talking about governance and just the idea that you know less
decentralized networks L ones for example ripple the expert XRP ledger less
decentralized but what about like do you think of games which I know you
develop are they kind of like you know similar philosophy to layer ones in the
way that you design them or is that you know foolish way of thinking right so I'm
just curious about your thoughts like can we just say centralization and
gaming is you know perhaps a feature not a bug but doesn't apply to L ones as
well yeah I think that's that's really interesting I think for us you know we
actually have gone from kind of almost as this exact example right we started
building on a very very permissions sidechain and you know I think for us
it was great um for for kind of being able to cut our teeth into it not
necessarily the best for where we want ahead right what I mean by that is that
you know there's certain things I think within the games that you can do
completely decentralized right and I think that's that's fine you could do
game design all that and in fact we still will never put everything you know
on on chain I just don't think a lot of it needs to be on chain but I think
what we also are finding though is because we did have a lot of
limitations kind of going on that permission sidechain right performance
wise or great we were able to kind of control some of that which I know is not
principles of blockchain but it allowed us to really understand and build but
now that we've now that we have several games on there we have millions of
people kind of transacting we do think that the decentralization becomes more
important right so even concepts around staking and being able to provide
infrastructure through node structure and all that that is becoming a bigger and
bigger part of our story and I think even the biggest one and frankly one of
the things we're really loving that we're gonna be able to implement with this new
design is you know we still have some limitations on the game design to where
things do have to be slightly more centralized and I think we're now getting
a point we don't have to be full custody we can now be self custody right
and I think that's gonna be a great improvement to where we don't control a
key the user doesn't have to have direct management the key on the game
side and we're able to kind of come in with an account structure to where you
know again it's it's from the game perspective we reduce all of that
friction which a lot of that friction will be reduced by a more centralized
design we pull that off in a self-customity right and that's great but
then there's still times even ourselves right it's like man I'd still love to
take my balance that I'm building in these game worlds and go into a DeFi
world or go in and put it on a ledger or things like that and now we're gonna be
able to have kind of this dual mode to where you can generate that private key
if you'd like and you can actually still have a self custody within the game
which allows us to have that slightly centralized version but slightly less
now than we had that complies with Apple and Google and Nintendo and Xbox
but now we also can generate a second set of keys that I can then take that
same balance and and put it into a DeFi now you do have risks right obviously if
a player loses those keys they'll lose what's in game as well as the DeFi but
it's getting really powerful in terms of the ability to kind of go back and
forth and I think so I guess my is is that there's always going to be certain
things we need to do centralized especially if you're in kind of
combining with these big platforms but we're now able to kind of have this
hybrid and I think that's gonna be a massive massive leap forward for gamers
for game developers and just players well John you know this is very topical
because we have the game developer conference in San Francisco happening
right now I'm not sure if you're there or not I was invited to speak about AI
tomorrow so exciting to be headed over but you know given that GDC as well as
Nvidia's GTC right of both happening in the Bay Area you know they're big
conference and videos so you know it's a it's a it's definitely apropos to be
talking about these right now and I guess the question that I have well first up
yeah are you there and number two you know what kinds of things do you think
you know L1s can learn from games and vice versa right yeah so one I'm
actually not there's the first year I've missed in 15 years I think it's well
represented happened I actually there's a couple different reasons I have I have a
daughter that's looking at colleges and so I just had some personal things
that came up so but we're very well represented there I think a couple
things we're seeing already at that conference though which is really really
encouraging I think frankly from our perspective NFL rivals has been a huge
wake-up I think for a lot of the traditional gamers are game companies and
game devs and I think we're being inundated now with a lot of the what I
consider very very established game developers there have kind of moved
from like ooh what's this to how is this gonna work to okay yeah let's
jump in you know so I think we're about to see that I think we're gonna
see a huge transition in the next 12 months here and and I think obviously
mythical we want to be one of the ones leading the way I think we now have some
really really great data points to show how these games can work with millions
of players and again it kind of goes back exactly to your last question though
is that how do we basically have the right experience that is you know offers
more of this decentralization more the promise of blockchain while still
protecting consumers while still integrating with the app stores while
still being able to run these games with low friction this is all happening and I
think we're we're you know we've been talking about this for years right and I
think we're really seeing a lot of that and GDC has been a great example I'd say
there's probably been at least a dozen companies that have already met with
mythical and saying okay we want to do what you guys did with NFL rivals so
I'm excited I think this is we're finally at a point now we have real
data behind the scenes to to show how this works and frankly I will be really
honest I would say that the game developers are still less interested in
the decentralization aspects I think mythical is more excited about that
what they're really after right now is they're like oh my god you know 22% of
NFL rivals data comes from these trading volumes right so that's exciting
to them seeing a 20 22% lift in their revenue but I think they're seeing that
they can do this angers are accepting I think again I mentioned before I think
that's that that we've been able to put three right like NFTs and stuff like
you know what I hear you we heard that that's changing or do you feel like
that's just not it is completely you know I think my favorite stat right now is
that Madden Madden mobile is sitting at a 4.7 star rating in the App Store and
NFL rivals is sitting at a 4.8 right so after about a hundred thousand reviews
we're sitting at a higher review than Madden is about this economy right so I
think again it really comes down to how you implement and how you deliver and the
value create in the game but we've actually seen like so we're a higher
review game than Madden is without in that right so to me I don't think that
the gamer issue is a is a is really an issue that's an issue that and actually
the question that I have is ever somebody's gone to GDC for 15 years has
there been you know like changes in sentiment so like you know like virtual
reality VR you know eight well they bought my former company where I was an
exec at Oculus during GDC 2014 I mean the negotiations happened then and it was
announced a week later and then you kind of be our eight like 2015 and 2016
but this year it feels like AI is beating GDC as well as last year so I
was lucky to speak last year about it at GDC and you know AI is kind of the
big buzzword but as what three gaming company do you show up and it's like
what do you get out of GDC I guess is the direct question and what's like well
I think I think for yeah for us I mean I think again it's a I mean someone it's a
family reunion you know we've all you know it's a small industry and everybody
moves around quite a bit so I think for us it's always a great time to kind of
reconnect but I think for us again it's it's really sharing data right taking
the opportunity to share you know a lot of people see headlines they see what's
happening out there people do follow all the different trends and this is an
opportunity to really kind of go deeper with all these companies so I think it's
been great I agree sentiment change you know it's been all over the place from
cloud computing to you know web 3 to AI I personally think that will be a
combination of AI and web 3. Yeah it will guarantee it will and I think we'll see
that trend come back in the next couple years with cloud gaming I think
we'll see trends around frankly blockchain and AI coming together right I
think they actually are they're viewed separately but I think they're gonna have
a high reliance on each other with content I think well maybe it's not a
hot take but for our AI spaces they're like well why does AI need crypto maybe
crypto needs AI but why vice versa no I think I mean it's crypto I think I
think you're gonna have a massive issue around I mean like just IP in general
right people people I mean think about this if you're suddenly building all
these multi you know neural nets that are feeding off of data from other
people I think the only way to truly verify where that yeah it came from and
eventually be able to support a payment structure down the road right to where
people are actually getting fair credit for different contributions that go into
AI I think the only way to really pull that off is through watching right so
where if AI can basically come back and verify yes this was built off of
these series of data points right you can actually use blockchain to permeate
that and say look your contribution from where the AI was trained is point
zero zero zero one percent but you could actually get credit for that for
that contribution so I do think the concept of an immutable distributed ledger
verifying all these transactions of what's actually going into the output
of AI is actually going to come in really important for anything creative
not just gaming yeah so I've heard that argument several times and I think it's
a good one it's actually one even I said but the more I look into it it's
almost impossible to assign what percent of you know an AI model went from
somewhere right so for example music AI music generation like you can say oh
make me a song in this style Taylor Swift so you think oh maybe only Taylor
Swift should get the attribution but because of the way these models are
trained on large amounts of data that model is being trained to generate that
music video on you know not only Taylor Swift songs but songs from you know
Kanye or songs from you know Aaron and Grande or some random indie person you
never heard of or Mozart or Beethoven right there's I mean just literally no
way when you look into it to attribute the like a song that sounds like Taylor
Swift might be like 99% I mean wouldn't be 99% but like you know it could be
like a fast majority show punk for example so I think that's gonna be
difficult I think it could be solved but I just think it's you know I mean
we're certainly not there yet with current deep learning models we're
definitely not there yet but I do think it is gonna be a path right to
where yeah because I think you nailed it exactly when you say create me
something that looks like this it's it is inspired and it can be inspired by
thousands of different inputs right and if we could eventually track those
different inputs and the contributions throughout the different layers of the
neural net which we should be able to in some capacity that's the problem
right like I mean you know possibly but yeah I'm not sure yeah I'm not as
convinced as I was when I was you know I think that argument exactly what you said
to people like I don't know a year ago and then the more the more you used to
look into it it's like I don't know this is kind of one of those intractable
problems but I don't know I hope I hope it's it's there I hope it's possibility
and just to chime in with agreement that AI definitely needs crypto I think when
you talk you know you when you flip that table and you talk about you know
what does AI offer to crypto I see benefits obviously but there's this
looming risk that's undeniable and you know the threat of quad computing AI
aiding that venture and that the threat it poses to the entire crypto space
really to all blockchain and the pure essence of blockchain security yeah yeah
definitely I think that's a good I mean it's a good it's a good take I think you
know it's funny I think crypto does need AI you know there are many ways I wonder
about the the alternative I think it will eventually as John said but you know
this is a big path so we kind of dived into you know very specific topic I
mean it's apropos a game or developer conference but I'm happy to go and chat
about markets you know markets have been doing interesting things and by the way
welcome to polka dot our our partner for today we'll be having an AMA with a lot
of the great group gathered here so excited for that but yeah maybe we'll
shift gears a little bit to markets and I'm looking at crypto data with you
know Donny and maybe some others happy to get your thoughts about what's
what's happening maybe crypto data if you want to you want to leave the
discussion on markets happy to hear your thoughts yeah sure I'm Sasha again
from arcade inventors thanks for having me on yeah it's funny I've been sitting
on the buy button for aetherium for the last day and you know when when you
start to see this volatility again when the bull market comes around I think
social media across crypto you know crypto Twitter telegram discord people
start to lose their minds again and and you know scream like the sky's
falling but if anyone remembers I mean this volatility is very normal during an
upcycle we used to see massive fluctuations in price there's just so
many influxes and out and outflows in in the space and so there's a lot of news
hitting the market every single day I think there's a some news about the
aetherium ETF coming to market soon I saw Ryan Sean Adams tweeted either Gary
Gensler is going to approve the ETF or try and sue aetherium for being a
security I think it's a fun hot take but again I think like for us it looks kind
of sideways I am I'm very bullish in the long term I think that this market is
good for the crypto startup space a lot of projects are taking advantage of this
and saying okay I've been building for two or three years now I've got the
tech I've got the traction I've got the users it's time to start looking
about fundraising because there's a lot of fast capital I think I said it
on the space the other night as well for those that are resourceful that are
actually building something of impact it's great because we're back at no DD
season apparently so we'll see how that goes over the next few months yeah so
let's describe that a little bit so you know there have been certain projects
you know mean points that can get any traction you know just merely a few
weeks ago and now are just you know getting lots of traction I won't name
names but I mean how do you feel about like of course there's just the
greed fear indexes human nature I mean crypto data well how do you explain you
know just the endless cycle of just you know these stories happening over and
over again and how do you make sure to sift through you know sift through to
find the good projects right because there are undoubtedly good projects here
that'll stand the test of time but how do you how do you do that that due
diligence so to speak I think you know being in the space for the long time
you start to develop some conviction and some and some vision around what you
want to accomplish here if you're working in crypto and so I think that goes to
contribute to like a higher calling and how you invest how you look for projects
how you analyze fundamentals you know from this perspective I'm actually maybe
the least bullish person on meme coins I know that a lot of people talk
about meme coins and being something that's like a grassroots anti VC fair
launch movement but you know in ethos or ideals that's fantastic but in
practice the only time I think it's ever happened has been with the first ever
real official meme coin dogecoin and I think since then it's just been cash
grabs and so we do a lot of on chain analytics data and we also create videos
on our YouTube channel around these on chain analytics and most of them circulate
around meme coins because there's so much controversy and people are so
emotional about meme coins with the volatility and the speculation and the
lack of fundamentals and we've seen some crazy things in meme coins and in
trying to like bring some light to them in fact like Pepe one of our analysts
found that on day three of the launch and we created a non-chain analytics video
for it to try and show people look this is a you know 40% of the supply
was scooped up as soon as launched by a hundred plus wallet addresses that are
brand new all funded from the same centralized exchange hot wallet so it's
obviously an insider job and then you know before you know it all of these
centralized exchanges are listing it but we kind of have this insider joke in our
company now if I had put only $50 into Pepe on that day I'd be sitting on
three and a half million right now so like it's it's hard to keep this ethos
but you know in the long term I think it's gonna pay out yes the Sasha a
question about that though what defines a meme coin in your view right so for
example I mean doge you've talked about is a 19 billion dollar market
number 10 on you know the in terms of total market cap among the other coins
so I mean you know that's that's a large market cap but you know we just
think of it as a meme one because it started as a meme like what defines how
do you just you know get given you some of these meme points have you know such
a large I mean such a large presence how do you basically define it right is
it just like a feeling kind of thing like oh I'm gonna arbitrarily say this
is the meme coin but this one is not I mean how do you how do you make that to
sanction I mean that that seems to be the trend honestly but you know we
released an article I think a last year called the anatomy of a meme coin where
you start to look at some of like the characteristics of how to identify
these things but we've seen so many meme coins hit the market in the past
few months especially on Solana which seems to be a very very hot chain for
this because of the the low gas and transaction fees but I heard a pretty
interesting take recently these need to be rebranded not from meme coins but to
culture coins because they're being created based off of images or ideas or
you know brands off of things that exist that are popular within our
culture not so much memes anymore but at the end of the day like these these
assets I think it's it's pretty common pretty competent saying like these
assets promise nothing and in most cases people launch these assets with the
idea of hopefully this sort of cultural icon will gain enough attention to draw
interest in the liquidity pool so I can dump my holdings on retail or unsuspecting
people and then in the case of Pepe in the case of dog with hat and all these
big multi-billion dollar market cap meme coins you hit this certain threshold
where the market cap and the valuation becomes too big to actively pursue a
scam or a rug pull because if let's say the creator of Pepe now that might be
holding 30% in undocks wallets across like 15 accounts or even a hundred
accounts if they decide to rug pull and drain all the liquidity across all the
exchanges of upwards of a billion dollars that's gonna draw the interest
from regulators and so it's this really weird cycle that we're seeing around meme
coins but I don't think they really represent anything anymore it's more of
just like a train that people are eager to hop on based on speculative gains
right now so that's that's one of the big reasons why I'm not a huge fan of it
I think it kind of ironically goes against what I like about crypto Dakota
what's up I just want to like add some context there because there is a meme
points like the definition is definitely evolved and gotten very obscure
especially over the past couple months and so there's something like Doge which
I think so like there's a true meme there the meme was on Bitcoin you know
Bitcoin's the story value it's the new currency so someone created a chain
they're like look does the same exact thing is a joke and so they made Doge
and that was like it was a meme they were memeing on Bitcoin but then you
have I think culture coin maybe that's that's a good terminology for things
such as like dog with hat like there's it's not memeing on anything nor is it
in itself like a meme to where you have like Pepe is it memeing on
anything no but that is literally there's a literal meme behind it but
then you have things such as go real deep in here you have like horn you know
so like that is memeing on Elizabeth Warren or Elizabeth Warren and so like
that is actually memeing on it because you know here's this this icon that
hates crypto so the most entertaining outcome is a coin in her image you know
going so it gets really interesting and obscure like we even have like dead in
the poker ecosystem it is memeing on the play that you know everyone was saying
you know polka dot is dead or dot is dead and so they take that maybe as a
blend of the culture as well kind of seizing on that opportunity but but the
evolution of meme coins is I think a majority of people will get wrecked
for sure but I do think it is fascinating to see people kind of
congregate around tokens and it's one thing where people are just more purely
you know speculative they don't really give a hoot about anything I just want to
throw their their money around and see what goes up but then you do have some
tokens which kind of hold a a bit of a symbol you know like some rebellion to it
right now I do find that a bit interesting I mean isn't BTC a symbol
right of rebellion I mean even from the original Satoshi white paper right it's
like a symbol of the rebellion against track by for example so I guess you know
I mean is the Bitcoin a culture coin right I mean you know there's a lot of things
I'd love to go to Joa but I mean the thing is I'm not still sure I mean look I
have my own definitions of meme coins but I'm not sure I have like a a definition
that can just stand up to scientific rigor right like okay yeah what makes
Doge and Shiba a doge coin or a meme coin given its market cap right like I
mean you can't use market cap as a parameter so Joa I mean what's how do
you identify what a meme coin is like do we just define what a meme coin is right
I mean Bitcoin is a culture coin in my view so yeah what's I think someone I
don't remember who was just speaking before about tracking back the wallets
and that all the money came from one source on Pepe that started as Sasha
crypto data yeah yeah Sasha we have the same premise where it starts from our
interpretation is quite different though right which is look I think VCs
and people like that have understood that you know you can't go and do a
second airdrop right so for example when Solana faced the whole FTX debacle
what came afterwards bonk right bonk if you track back the funding of that it's
basically all BC money that propped it up because they understand that using
meme coins is a way to attract new users to a chain right I guarantee you
polka dots here right now I'm sure they'd love a what I'm calling mascot
coins right not even meme coins mascot coin what is the mascot token that makes
it fun to be on your chain right so you have Brett that's going to base you have
Pepe and doge which are the ones and I feel Pepe is more of a groundswell more
than doge was it's kind of the same way as doge but then you have tokens
like bonk and Brett which are completely engineered to get new people onto the
chain you can see it you just had to look at the on-chain data I mean
that's why you know I don't think you know but I'm actually working on AI to
interpret on chain data so it makes it easier for people to see like which which
of these are actually valuable or not because there's big wallets that are
supporting these things and people that don't know how to see launching data
won't and they'll just fall into the FOMO and they're gonna get wrecked right
and I don't like seeing people get wrecked like that just basically just
chasing things there's tokens that are gonna make it and they're gonna make
it because they come become the mascot of that chain and the other ones you know
it's it's really a huge risk will they make it will they not it depends on do
does the community stick together after a bear market Pepe's community stuck
together after a bear market I believe they'll make it and I believe the whole
Pepe verse will make it Brett will become probably the the token for base I
don't know which one will be polka dot I'd love to know because I'd go and
put money in there right now since polka dots here I love to hear from you guys
but launching soon what's it called the the dead token DED okay but are you from
polka dot or you just say no I'm not necessarily it's a community I'm driven
I'm not like you know a high-level operator within that initiative but yeah
it's cultivated I think there's like 20,000 members like new people and like a
telegram group and they just they're getting everything ready for the air drop
now so like it goes to you to what you were saying is it's being used as a tool
to draw in new users and it's been working even before it's launched just
in anticipation of this mascot coin it's drawn in tens of thousands of people well
I just dropped you follow I'm gonna hopefully it's on your timeline and I
can find it because I'll go look but yeah I mean they're mascot coins and
that's and they are useful they do make the chain fun they also create tons of
content for that chain so I see a plus plus plus plus all the other like side
things like cats with hats and dogs with hats I think they're temporary to be
honest okay now but not fun for a long time all right
Adani I was gonna go to you earlier so I'll give you the mic yeah welcome to
me or thank you for inviting me to the space I'm just a bit concerned why are you
all like hunting for mean coins right now I mean it's like being done and
dusted over the last few months well I'm personally doing well I've been sitting
in Bitcoin since then 20k only made one altcoin play publicly on chain on my
Twitter buying putting 200 grand in B and up to four million dollars now I'm
looking for strong bags with rich fundamentals that haven't even been
pumped in this first part of the should we say pre-harbing cycle and I
think you know this this space is titled well white polka dot will lead this
coming alt seasons because there's so many good bags there that haven't pumped
yet if someone just breathes on one of them it's just gonna be sent straight to
the heavens and I think you know there's a couple of people speaking on
here today who have really strong projects like like kill mate that shit
hasn't pumped man it's like a stable coin but there's like 20,000 dids being
created in the last I don't know month or so there's some real serious stuff and
the Deloitte actively using it these shipping companies one of the biggest
media giants no one gives a shit made a chase invite dogs with hats and
everything the best mean coin I saw was Gavin actually Gavin would the founder
polka dot I've got some important news to announce I heard he shaved his hair
off yesterday and I think this is the biggest catalyst we need for polka dot
right now we need some we need some balls to lead the ecosystem and you know
that sort of behavior really really sets the path yeah I guess I you know I
don't think people are necessarily searching for meme coins but like you
know Joe for example has been in Bitcoin for over a decade and others a lot of
people have been in it for a while I think the question is just more there's
an existential question like what is a meme coin like I'm not sure that it's
been saw it's been answered that Donnie you kind of alluded to it by saying
maybe utility in some way right you know my main coins are just things that go up
and down you know and I don't really respect the
comments saying everyone goes in there's gonna get wrecked I mean it is a bit of
a shit coin to see you know but you know ultimately I think I was speaking
to someone at Kraken and I've done extensive research showing that you know
token utility and adoption does nothing on the price so to speak these meme
coins they harness the essence of crypto which is everyone's here to make the bags
go up at the end of the day and something catchy and witty usually like
propels itself with a cultural movement it's easy to digest and understand in a
space we're just overloaded by you know too much information should should
you say I think I think I also think meme coins are very important for a
fighting ecosystem I'm not a big fan of what I've been seen coming to Polk
about so far I think you know people are trying to force a meme coin you can't I
mean when you talk about like Pepe and whatever it's obviously forced by some
shadow capital possibly VC slash exchange related that you know
orchestrates a meaningful campaign to pump the crap out of it but a lot of
successful meme coins really just come from you know from from nothing you
can't force a meme that's a famous saying yeah yeah it's interesting
crypto del crypto what's up well I think you know a lot of debate here as we try
to talk from a qualitative perspective about what is a meme coin and we're
struggling to do so right and I think we're always going to do so because
you're talking about something abstract you're talking about something that its
representation is individualized among the multitude of individuals that make
up these communities so I think the true value and looking at meme coins is
discussing them from a quantitative standpoint which to Donnie's point is
exactly the goal of all their naming whether it be cultural memesh cartoonish
absurd it's all driven to try to produce some type of meaningful significant
trend analysis it's all volume driven and it's it's funny to me how this space
focuses on it like this you know never seen before evil this is seen in other
markets this is commonplace this behavior this desire that investors have
we've seen it this is the same exact type of culture that made the penny
stock craze of the late 80s early 90s um it's the same type of investor
mentality that we're seeing and so we also have talked today about the risk
right oh many are gonna quote-unquote get wrecked we saw that same happening
in penny stocks many quote-unquote got wrecked again I don't I look and Del
Kripta it sounds like a lot of traffic experience which I appreciate and the
question that I have for that is do you see most of these projects forget
coins but just like Bitcoin Ethereum do you consider it in your mind is it more
like currency or is it more like a stock right because you're kind of comparing
it to a stock you know whereas a lot of people talk about cryptocurrency right so
how's your what's your view on that well I think that the point that I'm
trying to reference is not per se what it is but per se the behavior and the
what it is from the market that drives that behavior so what it is and what
it isn't you know that's a conversation that's getting hashed out in courts that's
debatable and I really think forget the courts I mean that would be important
right Bitcoin yeah yeah but like what's what's it in your mind right like do you
think of it a lot of people think of it as a stock right whether it's a penny
stock or you know IBM or Microsoft or is it currency that's a great question I
think that the that's a question of assessment that comes for every digital
asset individualized you know I I certainly won't hold a mean coin that
you know just launched a couple weeks ago and the same esteem as you know
Bitcoin it's a mid amazing technological prowess and what it offers to the world
or even you know a theory um and its ability to all you know make smart
smart contracts so easy to work with for developers you know there's I think that
that question for me personally is a question that requires assessment of each
digital asset individually but I think that you know at a part of your question
you're asking listen do you think any of this is for real right do you think
that any of this you know holds value to maybe you know being treated as a
stock or having that legitimacy from a business standpoint or or maybe some
other point of reference and I think when I look at digital assets out here
the answer is absolutely and you know we talked a lot about today about you know
governance and governance of a blockchain and we we heard I believe it
was John speak about the gaming conference and speak about what's
important to him and his business in terms of governance and centralization
versus decentralization I love that conversation I think that that
conversation is the pivotal convo that every business is approaching it's the
first conversation in my opinion that spurs mass adoption and industrialization
for crypto and that's why I love seeing polka dot and all these other blockchains
that are taking individualized approaches to governance offering different things
to the market making it so that businesses can go out there get
educated and decide what's right for them their clients their products so
you know a lot of great combos today and my apologies to kind of get broad
and touch on them yeah yeah so I mean I think I think your historical perspective
is great and I guess I'm trying to hone in on I get the sense that you know a
lot of people just the public consumers retail think of crypto the way they
think about stocks already but you know we've been talking about two things
about blockchain since the very beginning one store of value and of
course especially at Ethereum and EVM compatible chains have emerged you know
the application layer right so store of value application layer but store of
value has has you know strong parallels to currencies or even things like gold
which you know for a long time were currencies and even in the US before
Bretton Woods was in fact you know the factor currency so you know the
question is more like will we ever get out of the point where we don't think of
them as stocks right like oh things that go up and down or but like actual
fundamental base money right like I mean base money in the central bank sense
of base money and I guess that's a question I'm asking what does it take
whether that coin is something else for it to become base money not thought of as
you know an asset that goes up and down like stocks you know that requires
penetration that requires business acceptance that requires me being able
to take my digital asset Bitcoin and to the market in a way that I do normally
as a consumer whether that be going to the mall whether that be you know logging
onto Amazon you know being able to go to my normal points of retail and being
able to have the option to use Bitcoin as I do other monetary resources of
payment that's that's what you're talking about here that's what's gonna
need to happen and do you think we get there and what needs to happen for us
we need law we need regulation right we need we need in my opinion we need CBD
C's we need digitization digit of the dollar yes this is what's gonna change
everyone's conceptual framework listen I know the evils of it I know what it
brings but I also know what's necessary to change the conceptual framework of
what is money for an entire multiple generations what a dollar is to people
right now is tangible it's something that they can touch feel tuck away in
their underwear drawer and it's been this way for generations and so to
change that conceptual framework for more than just 5% of the world you're
going to need to force it to happen and I'm just being a realist and being you
know a lover of history and seeing how that's always happened in the world
that comes through governance regulation legislation and we've already heard the
rumblings I think it I think we can all see it's coming and being a realist it's
positive and negative and I just just focused on one positive but yes there's
many negatives well I'm gonna ask about this is done and we will go to the
polka dot AMA which is gonna be exciting looking forward to it but you
know I mean even just money so if you ever seen the margin moving margin
call from 2011 Jeremy Irons played John told which was a fiercely disguised you
know dickfold references of the old Lehman Brothers and one of the his
quotes at the end when he was talking about the financial crisis was it's this
it's it's just money it's made up pieces of paper with pictures on it so we
don't have to kill each other just to get something to eat so anyway that's
end quote and and my point about that is like you could even say that about
Fiat right so at what point I mean basically money the way money is and
this is a pretty abstract argument I suppose but it's just what we think of as
money right like you think at this you know dollar with the picture of on it is
money so therefore you you know we all agree that it's money so if well think
polka dots money BTC is money then it becomes money right I mean I think it's
just a truly just a perception thing and an acceptance thing so you know
that's that's kind of a framework thing I would argue I would say it goes
deeper than perception it's it's so ingrained into the norms of society
that it requires inception yeah sure absolutely all right cool so I'm happy
to bring in mark mark welcome to the space excited to be chatting with you I
would like to kind of move maybe your first question is you know you were
recently on an interview I believe right hosted by Kusamarian where you
mentioned the possibility of a dot reducing or even capping its inflation
would love for you to elaborate a bit more on this and is this actually a
reality in polka dots future absolutely well it can be if the community decides
that that's something that's good for Doc and and so this is you know people have
been talking about dow's for what seems like ages in crypto but they they they
had the the term da oh but it was they're not really having it the D and
not really having the a but sure it was an organization and and polka dot is
different it's built different from first principles so we as a community can put
anything up for discussion and then we can and we can vote almost anything on
chain with the power of the voting being in the number of dots held so so based
on the stake and then also based on the conviction along you lock up the
more your vote counts so I think this is something that would be very good for
dot generally and you know and I've heard from institutional investors a number of
times that dot inflation is too high it the the staking rate kind of chokes out
any other activity what is the dot inflation how would you calculate it
okay so inflation rate is 10 percent and then that's paid out according to a
formula based on a curve to stakers on to the Treasury I couldn't tell you
exactly what it is but and and the community can vote again to change the
optimal reward rate I think right now it's somewhere around 65 or 70 percent
they results in the highest number of staking rewards Mark and do does like new
population get added like what is the rate of adding the circulation of that
10 percent like for example you know right now Bitcoin is ordinary and we see
new Bitcoin at their population about every 10 to 12 minutes and that number
is you know approaching getting halved that's the having of that can you give
us some details of perchance like this regarding dot inflation daily
Miss daily so there's so it's divided up into errors so with each error there's
a calculation and staking rewards are distributed across the algorithm so to
stakers to validators to the Treasury and then there's a burn mechanism as
well that Alice and Bob can probably speak better to yeah you're so you
obviously the dot went through redenomination in 2020 right so the
Japanese supply therefore increased then but I guess the question I have is so
you have the 10% inflation and looks like I mean there's definitely an
interesting inflation curve but so that 10% goes to the Treasury or how's
that how's that no there's 10% inflation and the way that gets divided
across the Treasury across stakers across validators is dependent on the curve so
if there's anyone here that can post something so it's all it's all documented
I just don't know we're off the top of my head I mean we have we have ten
what's interesting about polka dot oh Mark you can't hear Alice are you able to
hear Alice okay there might be an issue we might bring you back back down and up
but Alice go for it you have insights into inflation the inflation mechanism
yeah it's 10% inflation and then you have about 50% stakers but as Mark
mentioned there is a little bit of a formative but as a staker you get 15%
staking rewards so you're beating inflation by 5% and yeah there's a
little bit of inflow into the Treasury and that actually gives polka dot the
power to make strategic you can say investments or or fund projects so
there's common goods there is shared infrastructure operations and recently
polka dot even started paying out the core developers of the polka dot protocol
so they are no longer dependent on being funded by parity or the web free
foundation or any other company but actually polka dot actually polka dot
itself is paying out its developers and I think there's a very big step in
terms of making it a real true doubt just like Mark was saying a minute ago
what's a you know reason for the dynamic ideal staking rate like what's
like how does that mechanism work and what's what's like how did you guys
pick it like it this architecture is really fascinating by the way I'd
encourage anyone to post up stuff to the nest but yeah curious about how this
can be yeah this is actually a very simple but effective mechanism to
incentivize the whole network to roughly stake 50% of the tokens and keep the
other 50% of the tokens liquid to be in circulation right and so it's not a
it's not a very direct mechanism it's a little bit indirect but it sort of
leads the whole economy and ecosystem to reach this equilibrium point of
approaching 50% of the token stick and Alice oh sorry Alice go ahead yeah if
you have more or less tokens being staked on aggregates then the rewards
are just just not as good and it would incentivize people to look at other
avenues of generating how much of this was barred from like algorithmic stable
coins I mean of course Terra is one of the more famous ones but you know and
by the way one of the differences you gotta imagine is you know with you know
an algorithmic stable coin there is you know some belief that it'll be a certain
value whereas in here it's not so it's a very different situation but I guess are
there any principles barred I mean there's some great academic papers well
before algorithmic stable coins even you know joined you know the fray here
in crypto so I'm just curious if any of you know like why or is it more like
just you know maker or some of these you know defy protocols that have some
really interesting mechanisms just I'm curious where do the inspiration kind of
come from or is it just completely new and novel I mean the polka dot you know
white paper the original one from Gavin came out quite a while ago so I'm just
curious where this this has been a development or was this architect from
from the very beginning that's a good question I don't really know it sort
of ties into that era of actually solving proof of stake so if you I
don't know those that have been around in 2017 back then it wasn't even a
hundred percent certainty if we can have proof of stake you know you have certain
protocol researchers be fairly confident but then I believe Cardano
were the first folks to actually solve the long-range attack and polka dot
borrowed or essentially took over the essential concept of Ouroboros consensus
and extended it so it's all coming from an era of being the first protocol
researchers that are actually building a working proof-of-stake system so it's
as I really think you're dead on with that I truly do think that that was the
motivation behind the protocol I look at this I see that this is the type of
mechanism aetherium needs aetherium proof-of-stake aetherium themselves only
contributed 13% of the population to the proof-of-stake mechanism there's no
incentive for the community to contribute to the proof-of-stake
mechanism and the result is we have seen fees out of control its promise of
delivering aetherium fees under one cent seems to be unreachable and analysts
agree that we'll have to see a significant portion above 50% of the
population of aetherium contributed and so you need incentive for that and I
think that when you look at what dot has created here with this inflation
mechanism that's what they're providing and then I think there's this other a
layer of it as well of responsibility for the growth of that and I think
perhaps that's a lesson learned from Bitcoin you see Bitcoin doesn't have
this measured and really what it is with that it's volume based right so the
volume of staking is what determines the rate of inflation very responsible
because Bitcoin just has this flood it's going at all times the rate doesn't
change but once every four years this was a huge challenge to Bitcoin in the
early years as every 10 12 minutes the population was growing significantly the
the by-value wasn't there and it contributed to Bitcoin's volatility and
large downward swings and negative narrative so there's that other element
there of having this be a responsible measured way to bring on inflation and
also aid the growth of your ecosystem yeah super interesting I want to go to
some of the other dot speakers so we got in go welcome back would be happy
to hear your perspective I'll go to Donnie afterwards but in go go for it
Mike is yours yeah so maybe I don't want to go too much into the into the
staking I think actually explained that very nicely and but but it's a it's I
think it's an indicator that the pocket art has all those mechanisms even though
they might seem a little bit complex they're very well thought out and there
are actually life since twenty when did it go live twenty nineteen twenty twenty
and we're using these things just like normal in the ecosystem and it's just
not maybe too much communicated what what I would like to speak about a bit is
about the adoption of the polka dot because we are doing in kill protocol we
do a lot of government and big industry adoption things because that is
actually our clientele and I noticed that a lot of those big projects which
actually needed lots of functionality and lots of freedom to to produce things
when they were built inside governments and big companies they were not going on
the usual layer ones like in 2016 2017 2018 when those projects were launched
there were mostly going on totally private blockchains mostly built on
hyperledger but of course over the time these projects also notice the
limitations that they have with such a system and that is actually not
developed further in a way that for example polka dot is and and when we
talk now they notice very often so I hear the word polka dot extremely often
so it is now considered and I think also perceived by my decision makers in
industry very much that we that we see here a system which has a for example a
governance which is absolutely outstanding outstanding and can basically not be
compared with anything else when you look at the theorem they don't even really
have an unchained governance which is which makes it complicated for them to for
example change the system of staking and and this flexibility and even the
flexibility to to not use polka dot but use substrate if they have a project
which requires for example being a private permission blockchain you can just
build your own polka dot basically and use it there and and put governance on
it and then start making really complicated things like building your own
daos that sounds a little bit like it's not happening because we in the crypto
space we find ourselves so intelligent because we talk about daos actually
international organizations talk about daos as well and they want to run funds
with that and they want to run a complicated mechanisms inside
international organizations be them NGOs or be them from the government in form
of daos because they see the that it's actually giving them much more
transparency much more security and lots of other things and much more speed
actually because when you when you just work on bylaws which are in some kind of
paper and everyone's expected to understand the paper then your
organization becomes very very clumsy and if this is on chain and then this
becomes much more usable actually and and much faster and much more transparent
and while we are discussing now with a couple of organizations actually to
utilize what what polka dot has as a as a government and use these systems
these mechanisms which are brought forward by polka dot to to run other things and
and this is also so this shows how how much a hat polka dot is actually in terms
of yeah in terms of technology and yeah can you can you describe that a little
more with as a kill protocol you're just specifically talking about or and your
engagement with industry and government organizations I mean what's I mean that's
definitely different a lot of you know a lot of these a lot of l ones or I guess
in polka dots k-tail zeros but a lot of them try to focus on you know I mean
retail and sentiment but it seems a little different here I mean it kind of reminds
me a little bit about you know the old chain you know which was you know merge
with stellar to become interstellar but yeah I mean curious about your thoughts
on killed my thoughts and killed are only very positive because it's my
project so killed is well killed is a single-purpose blockchain which is a
parachain to park about which produces an infrastructure for DIDs and
other father credentials what you can do with it you can just do decentralized
digital identity and this is a very general purpose thing so that is needed
for persons this is needed for for machines this is needed for services this
is needed in kyc this is needed in production for for attaching identities to
certain parts of a machine and and following the path of those machines as
as we heard from Donnie already working in a huge consortium together with companies
like like Deloitte and Hapak Lloyd and and other and many others to bring forward a
better tracing and tracking of shipments around the world and we're doing kycs
but we're also doing machine identity for example for the german government for
for the energy sector they're bringing machine identities on all smart meters so
this is a very general purpose thing and that was the that was the idea when we
started this this venture like in 2018 that we want to bridge between the the
old world the industry and the blockchain world and we thought and we
still think that the point of bridging is probably identity because identity is
broken in the web web too totally because it is centralized and owned by
facebook google and some others and it is also not really thought out in in
blockchain this is what we see when we work together with other friends in the
ecosystem in the pocketed ecosystem that everyone thinks a little bit
differently about what identity should actually be how far anonymity should
actually go and so on and there's no there's no common ground actually and
what you have to deliver is a standardized common ground and this is what
what is identity in your view in in crypto i mean i think we're we can all agree
that's kind of broken in web 2 but you know i mean there's world coin sam
almond's project right which kind of scans irises but like you know for
example if you if you say oh you know identity is clearly you know tapped into
your private keys and you lose your private keys like you get hacked so
your identity's gone right so that can't be the solution so
yeah i think there's a definition about what identity in the or at least what
digital identity is and that that is defined by two things the
first thing is an identifier an identifier is something that you make
yourself so that can be in the physical world that can be
for example your face or your fingerprint or your signature these are
unstoppable things right so you can't stop somebody from signing
from signing something or you can't cut off people's faces hopefully
and so this is controlled entirely by the user and
is absolutely decentralized in the physical world already
you could say okay crypto address is something like that isn't it
yeah in some way or form it is that this is not identity this is just
identifying something and identity grows on top of that
so an identity consists of an identifier and various
credentials or verifiable credentials so for example i do have a passport of a
certain country i have a university degree from a
certain university i have fishing license i have a
driver's license i have lots of plastic cards
which i carry around with me and carrying around with me is
is a central central feature of those things they belong to me and
i decide when i show them but they're all linked to my identifier so my
passport for example has a picture of my face on it
and the important thing about these credentials is that they're
issued by trusted entities which is not one trusted entity for all of
them the fishing club is one and the university is another one and the
government is another one and they all give me credentials they
are all linked to my identifier and when i use them the issuer is not
part of the transaction and this is the most important thing about
digital identity so if i use my my driver's license to
for example show that i'm over 21 and that i can buy a bottle of whiskey
this information stays between me and the whiskey seller and is not
going to be sent over to the government which gave me
the driver's license so this is what we have to
implement as a decentralized identity and this is much more than a crypto
address to be honest and so this as this problem and also the
solution was somehow obvious a coalition of more than 350
companies formed in 2017 and we were part of that
and made a standardization about how digital identity will look in the future
and got this finally standardized by the W3C
in 2022 and now we do have the standardization
and when you have a standardization how something will look in the future
by people like the W3C then companies can start investing in this and this is
the important point when everyone comes up with their own
crazy idea how identity should look i mean in ethereum you see some some
stuff that is yeah this is great but only in the
crypto sector if you want to be like if you want to do something that
is sustainable for over the next 10 20 years and if you want to make an
investment in that you go you go and look for the standard
and as we do now have the standard for one and a half years
we see the government and the and the big industry actually moving towards that
and we see also polka dot moving towards it which is fantastic
uh because we are in the middle of it and this is why we are successful because
we are just an implementation of those standards on blockchain
yeah so uh that's great and joe did you have a question for ingo or the
polka dot team yeah yeah i actually kind of wanted to merge
an earlier conversation where you were saying that uh
you know you understand why crypto needs ai but not why i
needs crypto and something ingo was saying which i do think
digital id is important i think there's a phase before that which is
with all the content production that's being created
we're gonna need like proof of human uh
which is an id but it's still anonymous where you know
we know that person isn't using a filter they're not using someone else's
face emulating someone else's voice like i think that's going to be a real
need in a very short future which has to do with digital id to a
degree just not as in depth as ingo is is going
although i do think what he's speaking about is the future
as well can i maybe respond to that um i think it's uh i'm also
looking of course at things like world coin and and
proof of personhood and all these things which is totally different from
as you said was totally different so world coin is not digital id it's proof
of personal it's something completely different
um and i doubt if we need proof of personhood actually because um
just look at the simple example so 20 years ago when you were a journalist
you were basically signing what you have written
and then you had some agency in it right and you're responsible for what you did
because you had a boss and the boss was looking what you're looking at it
and potentially saying we're not going to
publish that and if the boss said you can't publish it then
it's basically the brand or the newspaper or whatnot
which is behind that which takes the responsibility for the stuff you said
but in the end someone is always responsible down the line
and if you take ai then we do have the huge problem who's actually responsible
for it what they wrote but if you take the
journalist from today 50 of what they write is already ai
because they use ai so who's taking this responsibility for
that so i don't see a huge difference between the
journalist writing something which is influenced by ai
and something that ai has written in the first place
so i would not limit ourselves to persons
i think also as a person i do have the fundamental right to be represented by a
robot but the robot will never be able to
prove that it's human so i think we should take it a
little bit broader and say actually we don't really care if
something is a machine or something is a robot
or something is an ai but it's important that we can identify this thing
and then we can give them certain credentials and certain
ais will probably not get certain credentials but this is another thing
so how can an eye go through a kyc process
this will probably not work so you can distinguish between the ai
and the and the human on that side on the credential side but you shouldn't do
that on the identifier side so in ai or a
robot or service always be able to obtain an identifier
yeah i just see i just see more nefarious use
of ai like where you know if someone wanted to attack america just release a
biden filter and voice emulator and a trump filter and voice emulator
and that one's gonna know if trump actually said this or if biden actually
said that and that actually creates a national
security risk and manipulates elections and and
everything else it's a way to attack a country that
could probably be done today if they really wanted to do it and that's where
i see enough war you know assisting humans that's i
see it differently but i do get your point
yeah super interesting um you know donnie maybe i'll go to you
you know i think uh yeah i'd be happy to hear your perspective on this
to decode as well yeah i i think um i think i think digital identity is a
very important vertical that hasn't taken off yet
simply because um you know these DEXs are going to have to
move to a more uh regularly regulatory compliant nature
how do we do this in web3 well with digital identities you can you can
basically prove you're not in the usa but you don't need to dox your address
it's the same as i don't know strip clubs in the metaverse
you can you can prove your age without showing your date of birth
or your private information you know it's the same as
let's go into a nightclub and like the bounce is like yo yo how old are you
because probably got a bit of a baby face or something
and uh you know you whack out your id but you put your fingers over all the
details and just show the age and and that's it
um i i think these these identities digital identities are very ubiquitous
and at some point it's going to you know ripple throughout the space
and be widely adopted yeah super cool um dakota i want to go to you i have a
question about specifically about the ecosystem
and projects launching so you know obviously there's
well i mean there's definitely a lot of volatility in crypto generally right
now but how do you like you know kind of go between and
understand which projects are exciting which ones uh
you know what what projects should choose to build on polka dot right like
specifically like what kind of problems are being solved to be happy to hear
well i mean i guess uh regarding like what kind of projects should build on
polka dot i'm biased i think everyone should build on polka dot
but whether they launch as a parachain or
they launch as a smart contract um on you know on a parachain or directly to
polka dot with you know the 2.0 upgrade that's coming up and everything
with uh core time but regarding like why would you want
to choose polka dot the thing that's that's the actually the
easy uh the easy thing to answer and it
ultimately comes down to the custom uh custom ability of building on the
network so when you're using substrate or the
polka dot sdk you have the ability to optimize
every little bit of your network of your runtime
your logic it's like one of the big things is for example like fees
and um like fee payment assets so recently ethereum had its upgrade and we
saw the fees across l2's uh like base for example
drop we see on day one that you know day one of the upgrade
that the fees on base are actually lower than salon
but then the next day we see that they're still very very low from what
they were but you know salon is now cheaper if they've
gone up a little bit um and one of the things is
the base chain can't choose really that doesn't have control
over um like lowering its fee structure because
of just the the entire architecture needs of how that all works
with how it needs to pay for its block space whereas with polka dot
you can have a custom fee payment model you can
abstract fees away entirely from your users if you need to
um where they don't even need to worry about paying fees for every transaction
and you can do this because of the customizations that come with polka dot
so it doesn't matter if you're building whether something with di d
something for dows defy any product that you're building any
network that you're building if you want to provide the best
user experience the the best products possible that are actually practical for
future adoption products and that can emulate uh a
similar experience of what we have on the web today
where i just use it i don't i don't have to
go around and pave everything there's something i really like i pay a
subscription you know we might see that with
networks we'll see a lot of subscription models that's something that we're going
to have with embarch so regarding you know who should build
on polka dot literally everybody you have the most
developer freedom you have access using xcm to leverage other
networks and their protocols like embarch we're able to work with kilt
for example so that dows and multisig on our network
can actually integrate and leverage their di d solutions
we're able to turn nfts on any other chain whether it's moonbeam or asar
into dows and so there's this really big network effect that you can leverage
um so yeah i mean people who think big people who are bold
people who want to build for the future and build resilient solutions that are
part of the new web that can last forever
there's the people that should build on polka dot yeah nice
awesome well we are um i mean this has been a great ama but
we're about to wrap here uh we got another space coming up in a few
minutes but i'd love to give the mic to the polka dot team um
you know ingo alice unit dakota just uh you know
just let us know what you'd like to leave uh the audience with
so there is definitely one last thing so while we have the space there was a
breaking news that the scc is actually investigating
uh ephirium uh the ephirium foundation to
understand if eve is a is a security uh i think this is
whoa and i think they have picked the wrong enemy
you cannot mess with eve um if eve has i mean you just cannot mess with
eve it's it's it's it's enough decentralized that
this should be obvious to the scc that they cannot attack it but it's an
attack on on the whole space so essentially it's the scc uh bringing out
the big guns and trying to bring the whole space down in my opinion um and i think
what a bombshell i mean seriously we could have a whole another space just on
that but i mean i mean maybe just look into that for a sec i mean what's
what's even the i mean i'm looking at the things now but
i mean what's their so i mean clearly they made pic i mean it was just only
what a few years ago they said ethereum doesn't pass the howie test
um i wanted to follow this space so we will have to look it up
but um i i think the one thing that it points to and
this is where i can also like bring poco dot into the game
um what the web free foundation always has made sure is that
dot has the least surface area in terms of being attacked
um as a as a token as being classified they have done the web free condition
has put in the most work um in working with the scc and
understanding what the requirements are so um i just want to get this out um if
there is an etf coming and you have to question is it an
eve etf or a dot etf my bet is that you can have a dot etf
earlier than an eve etf wow it's my personal so if you look at if
you look at what the web free foundation actually has done
i think dot from the big coins dot has one of the best chances of actually
landing as an etf first you know just i mean you know um
i mean the interesting thing about that is coinbase worked a lot with the scc
right financed it not but you know coinbase kind of came under
attack at the same time as finance a year ago i mean the outcomes have been
different but like is working with the sct an advantage i mean of course you
want to of course in any jurisdiction you want to you
know make sure you abide by the laws but it seemed like uh you know just
necessarily working with the sct wasn't necessarily an advantage
um coinbase of course is literally a centralized exchange versus you know
yeah i mean it has i guess it is a disadvantage
advantage for almost all projects because almost all projects in my opinion
are very close to being uh securities because you have to just
be working very hard and most projects are showing themselves in one way or the
other uh you have actually like there is
for example there is project here in the room that also have been working
very hard to to uh with lawyers and and all the
legal stuff to avoid this um but in case of the big ecosystems
there are ecosystems that are chilling a bit more than others
and um so working with the scc what does it mean
scc has provided guidance on how to avoid being classified as a security
um of course they it's maybe a part of the strategy to say ah we're putting in
the effort anyway but um you know the scc how it is like
there might come a point in time where we have different scc in the united states
um where we will look upon the area era writers like
now and look at this is the dark ages of a government agency actually putting in
the wrong direction for everything because
yeah i mean i guess you have this discussion all the time
anyways i think web free foundation put in the right amount of work they set
down with them together in 50 meetings um got all the guidelines got all the
distractions to show best effort and to implement
uh i think they implemented over 20 different measures on
what they need to do to ensure that they will not get attacked by the scc does
not give you a perfect guarantee but from all the big crypto ecosystems
web free foundation put in the most effort to to put
dot on the safe side and yeah yeah yeah that's a really interesting
fascinating thing so i mean we are we are on time and there's plenty more to
but uh yeah i mean um maybe folks on the polka dot side of
closing thoughts on this day i may we'd be happy to hear
um i mean i just last thing i want to say is uh
you know choose rich choose dot
awesome sounds like good good words fighting words i love it
all right well thank you so much to the polka dot team thank you so much to the
speakers this has been a great space uh we run these pretty regularly around
9 a.m pacific so looking forward to seeing you all in the next one thanks
thanks bye thanks thank you