Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Will AI Agents Replace the Retail Investor?
Recorded: April 17, 2025 Duration: 1:06:57Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, industry leaders explored the launch of innovative projects like Spirit Blockchain Capital's tokenization platform and VaultiSig's AI-driven wallet infrastructure. The conversation also delved into the emerging trend of AI agents potentially replacing retail investors, emphasizing the need for accessible trading tools in the evolving crypto landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. all right i gotta do a quick sound check scott or actually toky's inviting people
scott i'm gonna need your help let me see can you hear me okay i can hear you okay but
it says that you're a listener on on my of things. Yeah, that's just you.
Don't worry about that.
I just want to make sure you can hear the music in the background okay as well.
Because I'm making sure we are ready to go for Dubai.
And getting all these things up and running is kind of a priority.
So I might as well go all out for this Volte Sig space and have a good time.
What do you say?
Sounds good to me.
We also got
Snooch in the house
as well.
I love it. I do. I do see Snooch
down there. So while we got
this party getting started,
make sure you guys click on that bottom button
on the bottom right-hand corner there where you see
the little speech bubble. Like the space, make sure
you're sharing it out with everybody else that you want to see
in here because we're going to have a good time talk about things that actually matter and
are going to change this industry forever Light them up, oh, oh, fire. So light them up, oh, oh, light them up, oh, oh.
Light them up, oh, oh, the ashes It's a did in the dark
My songs know what you did in the dark
So light em up, light em up
Light em up, light em up I don't know what you're up to because
we're gonna get this thing started i see a few people on stage i want to make sure i get some
intros get some people here uh going um awesome why am i talking uh we got scott scott
you're you're the co-host take us away man let's get some intros done yeah hey how's it going
everyone just uh action you're just a natural you tend to just jump on in and and that's not a
problem uh at all especially when you got messages pinging in the background everyone's trying to get
to the space and get up on stage.
But yeah, let's, let's go around.
And where should we start here?
You know what?
We haven't heard anything from Snooch and Snooch is,
would be joining a Volte Sig up here as a co-host.
So Snooch, how are you doing tonight?
Say what's up to everyone before we get into everything.
What's good.
What's good.
It's good.
Good to be back on a space with you dabs.
I would say I would be up here as a co-host, but I don't think you can have three co-hosts.
I think you can only have two, but it's all good.
I'll stay here as a speaker and be your sidekick for the show.
Let's go.
I see some friends down there as well.
Action, thanks for that banger music in the beginning.
Definitely got the vibes pumping, got the blood going.
Let's get after it.
Why don't we pass it around the room and get some introductions done, though?
All right, let's get our co-host.
Who's behind the Voltisig account right there?
Piloting the co-host seat here, or co-piloting.
i'm gonna send probably sending out retweets and and inviting people that's usually the way it goes
but we got you know who we have that i'm excited about today we got audrey up here
hey hey hey everyone
what's up audrey what's going of my favorite people in the space.
Absolutely, we hear you.
Go ahead and give us a quick introduction as to what you're doing.
All right.
So I am with Spirit Blockchain Capital, and we are in the tokenization of real world assets.
We are a publicly traded company in Canada, about to launch Seoul and ETH ETPs.
And we are also launching a kind of all-in-one tokenization platform,
which will include Smart Wallet, et cetera, et cetera.
So I'm very excited to be here.
Awesome. Thank you for joining us tonight.
I'm trying to see because it's so hard to see who's up on stage with spaces, but it looks like I'm just going to try to go around on my human level. Jen,
see you up there. How are you doing?
We're MGM. Happy to be here.
Happy to have you. You want to give a little intro to everyone? Say hello? Yeah.
So I'm here on behalf of Superior Agents, which is my project.
We are building totally autonomous, self-learning trading agents.
And also, you know, social media agents, cyber security agents, etc., etc.
But trading is what we're interested in in this space.
So I'm going to focus on the trading. These little guys, it like your your own little trading tamagotchi that just runs in the background
on your pc reading through the news deciding what it's going to buy what it's going to sell it does
hyper liquid it does spots and better than that because obviously you know ai bots they're kind
of a bit static they tend to get stuck in ruts and they
they do the same things over again what these guys actually do is if they've traded in the past and
they've had a bad experience from that they remember that and they avoid doing it again
so i think we had a couple of hyper liquid bots that they were they were setting the stop losses
too tight and they realized that and then they were like no i'm gonna i'm gonna take a few more
risks now i'm gonna'm going to do something different
So yeah, that's what we're up to
Is Human by the Killers your theme song, by the way?
I gotta ask
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah
100%
Let's go
I want to toss it over to Cluster, give us an intro
GMGM, everyone This is anjali how you are doing
hey doing great thanks we're good it's not gm here it's gn here where are you
it's uh i'm from india and it's like 6 a.m in the morning so i'd say that GM actually makes sense right now. Absolutely GM to you.
Yeah and I was awake just for this space so you know priorities so yeah pretty excited to be here
and yeah right now I'm leading marketing at Cluster Protocol and we are building the
coordination layer for AI agents and our whole vision is about making intelligence coordinated, co-owned, and trustless.
Under the hood, a cluster is an orchestration layer that combines decentralized compute, open AI models, and data sets.
So we'd love to talk more about AI agents.
And looking forward to hear insights from all the speakers today.
Thank you. Awesome. Yeah, this is definitely going to be a good one because I already see
we're going to fit right in well with everyone with the topic about AI agents and, you know,
trading, investing, but we still got a couple more people we got to get some introductions to.
Stages packed. Is that Hesh? Hesham that a hash hasham hasham hasham I'm sorry I apologize the stage thank you for having
me very very well thank you I really appreciate the invite today I am a
co-founder of Ellis Network we launched in December so we're still fairly young
in our journey here we're a fairly young in our journey here.
We're a decentralized finance platform, so all-in-one DeFi with a mission to kind of make the
process a little bit easier for somebody who's new to blockchain and maybe is trying to take
the reliance off of centralized exchanges. So we mimic the centralized exchange experience,
but it's full self-custody. Some of the things that we are already started rolling out are swaps and leverage LP.
And then we have obviously staking on chain
and coming soon, very, very soon expanded ball products.
Right now you can stake USDC,
but you'll be able to stake Bitcoin, Ethereum, Atom
and any other large asset and earn a yield on that
as a borrow pool for other people
to take
on leverage positions so we'll have leverage LP, perpetual trading, order book coming soon,
many many more things actually I saw Dean Troubles from Agora is on this call I saw him pop in he's a
big partner of ours and they're going to be building some really cool orchestration stuff
for us so hopefully he'll get a chance to speak about it too but where we are excited to kind of
talk about it tonight is how AI is going to help power our platform so I'm going to test to speak about it too. But where we are excited to kind of talk about it tonight is how AI is going to help power our platform.
So I'm excited to learn from the rest of the speakers here and the founders here.
And at the same time, be able to actually use your products integrated directly on the LSU.
Let's go. I'm going to be right there by the side with you on the learning side of this.
I do see JP down in the listeners. I believe he's supposed to be up here as a speaker.
Gabs, if you can. Yeah, I'm going to try to.
But can we toss it over to Raghav? I believe you're from VolteSeg, correct?
Uh-oh, we're getting rugs from vaulti6 main account and oh no there we go
i see some action can you guys hear me there we go how are you doing okay nice uh good also
morningish here in singapore so yeah i'm from vaulti sig I look after Vaultysig's AI agent and infrastructure efforts.
So for a short summary, Vaultysig brings a secure MPC-based multi-chain wallet experience
to everybody.
We want to and have successfully done away with seed phrases, allowing the average user to just grab two devices
or even just one if you use us as a co-signer,
set up a wallet that's MPC based,
works for pretty much all of the major chains
that anyone would be using in the crypto space
and allows you to interact with blockchains
in a safe, secure, and scalable manner.
This is already done.
We have our wallet.
It works great.
Please try it out.
Now we're focused on using this as a base layer
to build out an infrastructure platform
or third parties to
build bots, agents and plugins, which users can trustlessly
install and allow them to execute actions on their wallet,
without giving up any custody control, and without giving any
direct access to funds to these agents.
So we're super excited for this and looking forward to all the insights.
Awesome. Thanks.
Well, all right.
Well, I guess let's just dive into this a bit because we've heard a bunch of introductions here
and everyone keeps touching upon AI agents.
And the title here is will they replace
the retail investor i just want to get right right into it we got one more intro to do we got james
here as well oh yeah oh he made it up okay i apologize jp you want to uh you want to shout
out and say what's up to everyone and give an intro real quick yeah sure hey guys um i'm working
with uh rugav to build uh volderse. Super excited about it. Basically, it will be an app store for your wallet. So you can browse a whole bunch of different apps and agents, install them securely, and then they do the things. We're building in such a way so that you have maximum peace of mind that these bots can only initiate legitimate transactions
that you've already essentially signed off on.
And then another bot or an agent or a verification server
will triple check everything for you and then co-sign.
And honestly, the user experience we're trying to get to
is basically you say to your wallet,
hey, chat, can you sell all my ETH back to Bitcoin
the next time
vitalik tweets about his girlfriend boom so you have a bot or monitoring vitalik's tweets the
moment he tweets about his girlfriend it will just panic sell the whole thing back into bitcoin
and you can sleep safely at night vitalik girlfriend proof well your your intro basically
uh answered the question or answered where i was going with the question initially, but I'll still kind of throw it out there a bit in case anybody wants to jump in.
With AI agents specifically and say this marketplace or whatnot, for retail investors, this is going to make it definitely a lot more accessible.
And it's going to make it a lot better for retail investors.
But is there a risk that it, you know,
could replace them?
Just essentially just replace the retail investor and everything just goes to,
you know, AI agents or will there still be some need?
I think that's an AI powered wallet is going to take away more of the
on-chain decisions for you.
So you can set a more general goal like, hey, chat, make sure I'm trying to get at least
five to 10% yield on my Bitcoin in five-star class yield venues.
So you can still direct the intent, but all like the on-chain stuff and the actual decision
making and blah, blah blah blah is handled by
a smart agent yeah
i saw so yeah muted for a second there audrey did you have a take you want to throw in
i was just going to answer your question with uh yes of course it's going to happen
but anyways i digress but the stepping stone what i hear here is basically
kind of simplifying things making making the you know translating a sense you're saying you know
talk to the talk to your wallet to perform simple actions have a verification method have
some sort of security in place so you are not not, uh, you know, uh, I don't know, getting, uh,
getting your funds drained or anything malicious. So having, uh, you know, things in place and
this is definitely a huge step forward and making it, I personally think more accessible
for retail where you could not know the specifics of certain things, but know your goal and state your
goal and get toward those results by just, you know, voice and using those agents. And then
having a marketplace there on top of it, where you could choose from different things that you
different, I guess, tasks or actions, uh, would be extremely, you know, helpful for,
for many people. So,
you know, kind of a one size fits all, I would say.
Snooch, now I know you're, you're kind of a little bit, uh, said this would be a learning,
uh, thing, a learning experience a little bit here with some of this.
How do you feel just when you heard, you know, JP's intro here
about the direction of going of this with the wallet and being able to simplify a lot of,
a lot of things that, uh, you know, that you do on a day to day.
I'll be honest. I'm, I'm still very skeptical on the whole allowing AI agents to handle my finances, right?
Like, and I don't know,
maybe it's because I still don't know enough about it.
And maybe tonight's space will kind of help guide me
to the point where I feel a little bit more comfortable
about letting a robot basically...
So we all agree.
Yes, we all agree.
Agent intelligence is going to essentially meet parity
or get better than the most specialized human agents today.
And the vast majority of people put their finances
under the control of someone else today.
So your financial advisor, your bank, your broker,
a lot of people delegate their finances away today.
So first of all,
agents are going to become smarter than human,
especially in specialized data intensive passing tasks.
Two, already 90% of people today
already delegate it to human agents.
Why wouldn't you delegate it to a finance agent?
So that's why I think.
Yeah, I think you have points on that.
Yeah.
I agree.
I just had a slew of blood tests and I literally put the results of the
blood test into an AI bot to find out everything about it.
And it told me more than my doctor did.
And can these AI agents maybe replace, you know, that gut feeling or that future kind of
visionary thing some humans get? I don't know. But I think for the average person, unless you
have a financial advisor that's holding your hand and making you a priority, you're not a priority.
advisor that's holding your hand and making you a priority you're not a priority and you're a
check sheet like you're a you're somebody on their thing that they might have to poke or send a an
email to or maybe address if there's major market moves so i i do think there will be
much more growing adaption did you did you say financial advisor? Is that what came out of your mouth?
I did come out of my mouth.
Okay.
All right.
So anybody that ever signs up with a financial advisor, here's one request.
Just ask them how much money they make.
And if they make less than you, don't use them.
I love you.
Exactly.
And how much do they make in fees?
And what are they?
And they have opinions. And those opinions can go a certain way. And maybe that's not the correct way. And I like AI agents are just they're neutral, right? They're not having a bad day. They're not sitting in traffic. They're not breaking up with their spouse. They're not in those moments where maybe they have five clients that are more important than you. And that's where the attention is going to go, like where you can just
do it yourself. That's also see the access of, of a pool of information that could be gathered for
say for a financial advisor, or even a firm that's taking in just you know compared to what an ai
agent can do now i understand the you know putting trust in that but if you're using it as a tool
and then you know there are the right security uh features in place which you know send having a you
know an agent to send the trans our transaction or to pop up
something so that you verify it. And so, you know, all those things, obviously in place,
this just makes it where, yeah, that, that world of having a quote unquote, or getting a financial
advisor, it puts it in the power of everyone's hands to do that. Not just those who could,
you know, let's say have a bunch of money front just to invest and try to get in a financial advisor.
So I feel like there's tools in there that, you know, that make it a lot that basically, what's it called?
Break down the doors or the entry to barrier for people to get sound advice, neutral advice, like you had said.
And the great takeaway here is that no two agents will be alike, right?
Like we already see this with the large language models that are out there, but there's a major
difference in quality, major difference in outcomes, see the hallucinations from these
models, obviously a long way to go.
But users will recognize that as they are trying to select the one that's right for
them or trying to figure out the strategy that's right for them, they're going to have
to go through some pain
a little bit in the beginning learning this stuff.
So for me, I think the biggest thing
that you're really gonna get out of an agent
is compressing the element of time.
So when you're saving time, you are now more productive, right?
And that's kind of the big takeaway
of really all of what technology brings to us
is we're able to do things
that used to take many, many years is we're able to do things that used to take many,
many years. We're able to do in minutes. So what I really get excited about is this actual journey
where we're actually ready to take on the challenges, make the mistakes. It's okay.
In the same way that maybe somebody selects a financial advisor and doesn't like them and
switches to financial advisors, you'll see people try out different agencies and try different
partners and they'll eventually get to the one that suits them.
It'll be a suitability kind of match type scenario.
So very excited to see how this kind of plays out in the next, let's say, six to 12 months.
So here's the thing for me.
The reason why I would use somebody at a bank or a financial advisor is because I have that kind of recourse.
I know that i can go
bang down on a door um and get rough with somebody if i need to um for a lack of a better description
nobody in here is believing that for a second i know it's okay i can i can dream okay i can dream
well this is what that's why i don't use them but the biggest concern like handing things over to ai
for me is if i hand one little thing over, they have access to it all. Like that's the
biggest, you know, piece that people are, you know, running away from bots when it comes to trading,
when it comes to doing anything financials, because when you set it up, well, guess what?
You give them one key, they literally have access to everything. And that's a scary piece for me
when it comes to leveraging AI agents, when it comes to trading or anything of that nature.
So I think that's exactly what Vault-E-Sig is trying to solve, right? We agree that's a problem.
And the cool thing with MPC is just to give a very, very fast walkthrough. When you set up
your vault, you have a minimum of two key shares. can have more but you start out with at least two and this means you need at least two devices to
sign off on every transaction when you install an agent or bot we can take
these key shares and create a new signing committee that consists of, for example, a plugin or agent
who holds one key share and a verification server
or a guardian agent which holds a second key share.
Now, taking a super simple example, right,
something like DCA, a very common investment strategy,
when you install your plugin, you would specify,
I have 10,000 USDC.
I want to swap this to BTC over the course of one week, and I want to do it on a daily frequency.
You define that as a policy, and this goes to both the verification server and the DCA bot.
And the bot can only propose a transaction.
It only holds one key share.
It can never unilaterally sign anything.
It can propose a transaction that must be reviewed
and co-signed by a verification server.
And these are two different servers
run by two different entities with two different goals,
two different groups of people. So there's
no overlap between the circle. The verification server is going to look at every proposal and say,
hey, have you done a DCA transaction today? Hey, have you been trying to scam me by sending the
funds somewhere instead of a swap router? Is the output currency set to something other than PTC?
Is your limit price within a slippage tolerance? Or do you have a good enough slippage for current market conditions?
It can check everything that a plugin could try and do to rug you. And the moment any of them
don't check out, it just refuses to co-site. And from a user perspective, halfway through the week
you realize, oh, well, like PTC is not doing well.
I don't want to DTA this. I'm going to switch to something else.
You don't even have to trust the plugin to stop.
You can simply tell the verification server, hey, I'm uninstalling this plugin.
Delete the key share that corresponds to this policy.
the key share that corresponds to this policy.
And as long as one out of two of those key shares
has been deleted, you have a mathematical guarantee
that no signatures can be applied by that plugin
on any asset in your vault.
So I think this is not so much as an agent problem,
I think this is an infrastructure problem.
Most of our current approaches to agents
are just being done poorly
to put it not so nicely, I guess. And we think that there are ways to scale this out to allow
essentially arbitrary actions to be encoded as a policy and allow users to define the
outcomes they want and only have agents sign transactions that work towards
those outcome with everything else being blocked.
Well, I guess that puts in place really the security kind of aspect of it and using some
of the ai agents i think that there might just be you know
with the general i guess public as as ai agents you know becoming more more known then maybe there's
like a slight misconception of exactly you know kind of how they work or how they interact and and
you know as you were saying verification server and putting putting the right pieces in place to ensure the security of that is, you know, obviously it's crucial.
But it just takes that away from, like, even myself early on thinking about AI agents.
I immediately want to think of all the security issues.
Is it transparent enough? Do I know what's going on?
Is there any sort of risk? Because I don't feel like I would know what's operating under the hood
there, like what's actually going on. But to get a clearer insight from you and defining that and
how that actually works, it makes me a lot more comfortable with with you know exploring that and
using and using these agents and agents to my benefit especially when you use an example like
dca because it's something that you know over many years of being in crypto i strongly believe
in in you know that strategy so to take away essentially you you know, a lot of what I, what I do, especially across
multiple chains and just to not worry about any security. Easy. Yes.
Hello? Snooch?
Thought I heard somebody. Am I rugging?
No, it was Snooch. He came in, he started, then he just stopped.
Decided to stop.
Yeah, I will add that I think the security side of things is the more objective goal here, right?
Where any agent that you're going to use is going to need to kind of prove out their security,
make sure that the robust solution that obviously checks all the boxes when it comes to being a product that can be used by a retail investor or an institution right those are the
things that are gonna you know really just be foundational right everyone's
gonna have to meet these standards to make sure that they are safe to use the
bigger thing that I think is more subjective though is the quality right
so how do you get an AI agent that actually meet your quality standards in
terms of being able to sift through all of the noise out there, all of the data? Because any large language model, anything that trains from the experts what they're doing right now to be able to sift through noise, number one.
And number two, how do you capture things like, for example, sentiment, right?
Because sentiment is always a lagging indicator.
You typically see like an asset move in price and then sentiment follows and then you build momentum.
close and then you build momentum, but then you're kind of late, right?
But then you're kind of late, right?
Your agent is now basically telling you, okay, this is the one to go into,
but that might've been the incorrect sentiment read because it's turning on a
dime or something, some other variable changed. So I would love this.
I'd love to hear kind of the experts, you know, opinions on, on those two things.
Yeah.
I think that that is one of the things that we're sort of hyper interested in at Superior Agents.
The fact that agents now are frankly not very good.
You know, they can go off the rails and buy some shitcoin with the same ticker as the coin they wanted to buy.
Or they can just randomly send $10,000 to someone on Twitter who asks for it.
So what we're kind of arguing with our project is that the best way to fix that is, yeah, sure,
you have guardrails, you have stop losses on the trading account or you have a multi-sick or
whatever. But in the long run, what you also want to do is encourage the agents to do better and train them to do better because that's the
one thing the AI is really good at, which is learning from data that is fed in. So in the
longer term, I think this is kind of going to solve itself. And even among the agents that we
have running now
and our users have running,
some are more successful traders than others.
Some have just had the experience
and saved enough in their memory bank
that they've learned how to be better.
Others, they might have encountered
less favorable circumstances
or the policy is wrong, whatever it is,
but they're making less money.
And users can actually go in and see, okay, this agent is performing really well. This one is not
performing so well. Maybe I'll copy trade the first and not the second. Or maybe I'll invest
in the first and not the second. So gradually, you have this sort of evolutionary process
that is both internal to the AI, where the AI saves the good results and kind of reminds itself not to repeat the bad ones.
But also across AIs, the good ones, they grow, they thrive, and they get more investment.
The bad ones kind of fade out.
So it's going to improve.
It's a matter of, you know, keeping doing
it, basically, it's, it's just like training a training a model, you keep doing it until it's
good. Yeah, that's, that's our sort of major take on this, I think.
Now, JP, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's basically what you're hoping for, right? Like,
you want people to build out models and allow them to
integrate within the wallet so first off the security piece is being taken care of the by
the wallet itself you set the parameters there's no sharing of keys there's no multi-sig necessarily
um it's based on devices and you can actually trust that a transaction will or not take place
based on your approval only but secondly like, like, yeah, some models are going to suck.
Some models suck right now.
They're terrible.
And I would hope that, let's say, somebody uses a model,
they don't like it, doesn't work for them,
doesn't do what it's supposed to,
they can provide feedback so that other users
won't fall into the same trap.
Yeah, I mean, we're building something from first principles,
and, like, we need to start building
it. We need to give users adequate controls. We need to onboard multiple apps and agents.
And yeah, we just need to see where it goes. We're very conscious on the fair balance between
user experience and capability. But we're under no illusion that the whole process could,
you know, there could be like lots of underhanded code shipped through stuff that could be jailbreak attempts and, and
whatnot. So we're going to make sure that we, we keep things very limited
guard at first and slowly expand it. And that's what, that's what we're doing
with the Rokov and the team over at the Vault of Z plugins. But I think this is
the new frontier to enable your, to talk to your app safely, you know, your wallet
safely, enable a very fuzzy logic agent
to suggest initiate transactions
to fulfill an intent
is pretty exciting to me.
Yeah, dude, let's be serious.
Who would have thought
that we would be here today?
This is always something,
oh, yes, one day we're going
to be able to do this,
one day, one day, one day,
and all of a sudden it's like,
no, everything's happening
literally right now.
So being ahead of the curve,
even for trying to use this technology, is already setting the tone for what's to come.
Yeah, I agree with you, Action.
I mean, think about how the evolution of wallets and, you know, and now with AI agents, I'll be honest, it's taken me by shock over the last, you know, say six months or years,
even just specifically more recently. And now, um, I'm excited for this. I'm excited that,
that somebody is pushing the boundaries here and, uh, and actually going to simplify things
and make it secure. So I would have never seen,
I could not have pictured this happening now.
So this is definitely a great breakthrough
and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes
and how it evolves and how the agents evolve
and like the marketplace quote unquote,
where you can test them or use them.
Yeah, I think from the capability standpoint too,
one of the things that we're underestimating
because of this multi-chain world we're going into, right?
The phase of adoption and phase of integration
that we're seeing with chains being able to actually seamlessly connect now.
AI agents are such a productivity boost and
such an enabler in terms of being able to handle things across different chains. And I think that's
something maybe that will become more prominent. We'll start seeing that later this year or maybe
early next year. And especially on DeFi platforms like LS Network, we're connecting, you know,
Ethereum and Solana and all the different chains directly on our network. We would love an AI agent that goes and handles different tasks for you across chains without
the complexity. So this is something I'm very excited to see kind of get built out.
Sorry, I think I might have almost been rugging there for a second I don't want to drop off oh that was it yeah yeah I got I got my son running around yeah I
gotta say like I I like where AI is going and while I might be a little bit
skeptical about you know trusting AI at this point,
it's just, it's more so just because I don't know enough about it.
And I don't feel comfortable trusting something that I don't understand fully.
Right.
But like JP, I want to throw this one at you.
Like how, when you have these AI agents that are able to trade for you, right?
agents that are able to trade for you, right? Like, where does it stop? I know you gave some
Like, where does it stop?
examples of, you know, in the beginning with Vitalik's girlfriend and everything, right? But
how far can you take it? I mean, can you just tell your AI agent, hey, I want you to make me a profit.
You can go make trades on this, that, and the other thing, and just tell it, make me some money.
Like, how precise do you need to be?
And how much freedom does the AI actually have to go out there and find good trades versus bad trades?
And at the same time, can the AI agent answer you back and say, I know you want me to go make this trade,
but there's a very high probability that it's going to dump know you want me to go make this trade but there's a
very high probability that it's going to dump and you're going to lose all your money like can the
ai agent tell you you're wrong yeah i mean a human agent a financial agent today can potentially lose
your money so yeah it'd be interesting to see AI agents, financial agents, get reputation, get users,
get volume, charge fees.
And in the future, you might go to 10, 15 different
financial agents, and they all have different
historical performances and dev teams
and fee sharing and whatnot.
And you delegate part of your portfolio
to various agents.
So let's see.
I'm not in the business of building these agents myself,
or I'm in the business with the team of building the infrastructure behind it,
because I think that infrastructure does not exist today.
So we want to, yeah, give it a go and see how we go.
But I'm super excited about where we can take it.
No, so I got to jump in here.
You just got to know, Snooch is very risk-averse.
I don't know how else to say this.
I have a great video of him basically not wanting to get into a trade that could have made him a millionaire.
But he just sits on the sidelines.
So you know what?
Doodles, let me ask you.
Let me ask you, like, how excited are you to be able to try to trade with AI agents and essentially let somebody, not somebody, but get somebody to do it for you?
What's up, Action? What's up, everybody?
No, I'm loving the conversation, and I agree with a lot of the statements made.
I think it was Hisham that said productivity definitely goes up with AI.
productivity definitely goes up with AI. There's a lot of features and capabilities that AI
will mitigate the risk, will obviously take away human error. I do have some questions,
maybe for JP or somebody from the team. I think that we're looking at crypto with such a micro
lens. And sometimes we forget to figure that there's like stocks and none of these AI
agents have ever been accessible for realty, you know, how do you call it? Realty traders,
you know, retail traders, sorry. So my question is like, we're focused on like a $2.6 trillion
market and I think the global stock market is closer to like all algorithms under very very secretive uh presence you know none of them have
been public to anybody for retail investors i still don't believe in trading stocks or any
really public ai agents do you guys see this as a big opportunity? And how is this model kind of
different from traditional models? Because, you know, hedge funds, if they have the secret sauce,
secret algos and algorithm equations that could have edge over the market, I don't think
necessarily they want to give that to all the retail investors out there. And this cycle is
kind of different from previous cycles where 2021 was more driven by retail investors and hype.
I feel like this cycle is more institutional investors, ETFs, countries, political powers kind of moving into the market.
Is this going to be available for some of the bigger players opposed to just the retail investors that are in this space?
opposed to just the retail investors that are in this space?
Yeah, I mean, we're building infrastructure
that is targeted for retail users for sure.
But yeah, we'll get to see who's the kind of user that will use it.
It's probably really dependent on the types of apps and agents
that get built on top of it.
So yeah, it's going into Alpha next month
and then Beta in the next few months. And yeah, we're going into alpha next month and then beta in the next few months.
And, yeah, we're super excited to see what happens.
I would definitely use some sort of AI agent at some point in my trading strategy or trading my portfolio.
And the reason why is you can just create parameters that work necessarily for your own investment strategy, whether if you're a high risk, low risk.
I know that, you know, Snooch said he's not very comfortable with bots,
but there's already a lot of bots with central exchanges, decentralized platforms.
Even KuCoin gives you an opportunity to set parameters,
swing trade the markets, DCA into the market.
So I'm interested in some of the new features that you guys are going to roll out.
Also, my other question is, just to expand off of Hisham, sometimes there's insider news
throughout the market, and it's hard to catch that data on chain, and it's not always volume.
Is there anything that you guys are looking forward to in terms of any social aspect,
whether it's mentions on eggs, mentions on Facebook, if
there's a CEO that's leaving the company or the token and going to another token or maybe
just not retiring. Is there any way that you guys are kind of judging the sediment other
than just transactional data or volume, anything of that nature?
Oh yeah, I can jump in and answer this. transactional data or volume, anything of that nature?
Oh yeah, I can jump in and answer this. So yeah, one of the features that we make available
for our agents is they can just have a Twitter account
and skim through the timeline like a human would.
And that means that, you know, they are sensitive to stuff
that is happening on crypto Twitter. And if they see a token is pumping, they are sensitive to stuff that is happening on crypto Twitter.
And if they see a token is pumping, they will, some of them will ape in, some of them won't,
depending on the kind of guidelines they were given.
But the other thing is that is quite interesting because these agents, obviously, they are kind of,
they're social entities, really.
It's not the same as having a quant bot which is just your quant
bot that is a purely functional thing. When you've got an agent trading, it's personal
at that point. It's like it's alive and you're rooting for your little guy to make more money.
One interesting thing is that people will publish their agent's addresses or they will get their agent on Twitter
and tweet about it and then people will tweet back and say hey you should buy this coin,
this one's going to pump etc. And we've seen agents occasionally respond to this. Well one of
the very early agent trading competitions we did, one of them ended up 34% after two days
and that was because it had listened to sort of the Twitter gossip.
It wasn't about fundamentals at all.
So, yeah, it's an interesting thing.
It's awesome that you guys are taking into account, you know, the social aspect of the investing, especially in crypto.
I think it's a lot different than the stock market.
But I think you guys have a solid product and I can't wait to see it in use for more people,
more retail traders, more communities.
There's tons of different trading groups on Telegram
and on YouTube.
So this is definitely a tool that more traders
and more communities will use in the future and also now.
So one thing I wanted to jump in here with is I know that,
you know, we're talking about a lot of the AI agents and we're talking about trading and DCA.
You know, I'm trying to think even beyond this and in, you know, what's going to be like a marketplace for these AI agents and to be using them with the wallet.
And we always come to, like I said, always come back to this trading element of it.
And we always come to, like I said,
we always come back to this trading element of it.
Is there any other areas that jump out
that this could be more useful than,
or useful, not necessarily more useful,
but useful outside of, you know, your DCA
or, you know, trading strategies like that?
Do you see this being incorporated into, say, you know,
so you could use it within, you know,
Web3 Gaming and other things to put parameters in that.
I don't know. Anyone feel free to jump in.
If there's some, some other AI agent avenues here that would,
that would work out that you can think of.
I'll be honest. I've been trying to,
trying to figure a way of creating an AI agent that could be on this marketplace that would be tied to gaming in some sort,
where as your AI agent is running while you're sleeping and earning, and then it sets you up in the morning.
I don't know. I'm just brainstorming the ideas. I love the marketplace though,
and the idea behind, let's say Action is actually good at trading and he's designed this AI agent
on the marketplace that's just crushing it and is doing really well and calling good trades and
making Action money. In a sense sense with this marketplace, if I'm
correct, JP, I would be able to utilize his agent through the marketplace and let it do similar
trades for myself.
So I believe a couple of years ago, a company called three commas was doing that to trading company in Canada.
And the benefit there is then, of course, action should make money off of that.
Right. Like if you have a successful bot and you're trading successfully, kind of you could have like a leaderboard.
And then if I decide I'm just going to mimic what action is doing, then he should get a percentage of what I'm doing because I'm copying him.
Interesting.
So this kind of like encourages people to come up with really, really well designed and thought out AI agents to put on this marketplace to try and get other people to want to use them so you can
earn just from them. Almost like renting out an AI agent. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is primarily
an incentives problem right now, right? Because even if you come up with a great agent right now,
trying to monetize it can be super hard because it's difficult to convince people they should use some random
platform or random telegram bot or run something on their own. And if you give them the agent
directly, then what's to stop them from just taking your secret sauce and just cutting you
out of that deal? So the structure we're looking at with the marketplace is to kind of align incentives. We believe that there are some amount of developers out there who are really great at building agents.
They are really great at taking a problem, whether it's DCA, whether it's swaps, whether it's narrative following, whatever it is, right?
And taking that problem space, wrapping it into one or more agents and they need distribution
and users have the reverse problem where they don't actually know necessarily what they're
looking for they want to be able to browse a directory and say oh well this sounds cool this
sounds right they want to look at user reviews, they want to
look at some kind of recent activity data, and make a semi-informed choice, rather than just
reading a brief written by an AI dev that may or may not be true as to actual performance.
So see reviews from other real users, see activity on chain of actual transactions that have
been made. And we want to bring this together. So on a marketplace, as a developer, you can
charge either a one-time or subscription fee. And again, because of MPC magic, we can take
this trustlessly and various variations around all that. But this means as an AI agent, dev, you get a revenue stream.
You can build your agent, sell it, rent it out,
and you continue to run the agent.
You don't have to share your prompts or your models
with anyone externally.
You just get access to more capital to deploy
and manage your strategies.
And for a user, you get to benefit
from the development skills of devs who are better than you
and let them manage your capital in a trustless way.
And this is kind of like the best of both worlds
from my perspective, because this goes a bit deeper, right?
Once you pay that installation fee,
you don't actually have to pay us anything from the agent side. We just manage the app store
interaction. Within the agent, you are free to set up any other kind of incentives that you need to.
So this can be super lucrative for devs who are really good at what they do.
If I build a great TCA agent, I don't even need to make most of my money on trading fees
or installation fees, sorry.
I could install affiliate codes.
I could install or have a deal with specific exchanges that if I route volume to them,
I get a share of the trading fees, like stuff that a lot of centralized entities
and platforms already do,
including three commas in the past.
Someone was mentioning them earlier.
They had arrangements in place
with all the centralized exchanges they supported
to get a kickback on the volume they're driving there.
So their incentive was to build great bots
because they get paid for it on both ends.
If the bots don't work, they don't get their kickbacks
and no user uses them.
But if the bots work,
not only can this sell services to a user,
they can also maximize their income from exchange side.
And it's the same for agents.
If you build really good agents
and you get the user interest in volume,
there are many ways to monetize it.
As long as you can convince users to use it,
which is where we come in,
because we let you do that in a trustless fashion.
Yeah, I'll say that this is really pretty fascinating
because we're talking about ways that you can capture success, right?
And I think that's a really interesting angle to approach it with.
One of the things that I think we haven't talked about yet and one of the things I'd love to actually maybe get some opinions on is,
what about the element of the AI agent learning more about the actual user who's interacting with the agent?
So what if I want my AI agent to know more about me I want the AI agent to do a deep dive on who I am as a person and what my strategy is what my
style is rather than wanting to copy a successful trader actually tailoring a
personalized portfolio for me based on who I am as a person I think that's
actually one of the things that probably hasn't really,
we're just scratching the surface on that stuff
in terms of how we load language models
and how we train models.
But this is where I think the AI agent
can really distinguish itself by being more personalized,
by actually instead of wanting to go out
and copy other successful trades or strategies
or algorithms, instead it finds you,
who you are as a person and
Build something for you and continually assesses that and comes back to you with feedback and has a conversation with you and tells you
You know, what do you how do you like it? How are you feeling about it so far?
What do you want to do next? I mean, what do you guys think about that as that as maybe a direction to take the AI agent and build out?
Yeah, I would very much agree with that. I think one of the things that we really
noticed in building superior agents was that people are, obviously people are interested in
the results that they get, but if anything, they're more interested in the agent personalities.
So if you prompt them to write little funny comments in the comments, comment
their code with jokes and stuff, they will do it. If you tell them to always speak in
a cat girl voice while you're also trading or whatever, they will also do that. And they
become these coherent personalities. I mean, you can absolutely create one that is sort
of a reflection of your own priorities and say I want you to take more risks here
and fewer risks there or whatever but I think that there's also sort of I don't
know if you'd call it parasocial or what you call it but the way that humans
interact with the AI is really interesting. They're not, no one is trying to pretend
that these bots are other humans.
But there is a distinct way of interacting with the AI
as a creature with a personality.
So yeah, I think that is going to be a big deal in future.
Yeah, tell my girlfriend that she's not real.
That was a joke, guys.
That was a joke.
I'm married, happily married happily married kids come on
i was gonna say i feed it you know when you're saying uh how it analyzes the you know the person
using it in a sense it's like all right i'll feed it my my accounts or my wallets and say uh
you know analyze this and then basically do the opposite of what i have been doing recently at my trades and make me
some money you know like actually actually flip some of my wrongdoings and uh evaluate it could
could actually help refine a strategy if it knows uh behaviors that i've tended to do based off of
you know whatever it's i guess it's just up to somebody to create that type of agent. It's up to you, man.
We were in Eat Denver and we witnessed live on the Eat Denver Captain Ethereum stage an AI agent that ordered pizza with their MetaMask wallet.
So, you know, this is obviously it has to make a decision.
It has to get, you know, the best deal.
It has to get the address right.
There's a lot of moving aspects in that. And it did it successfully in just under like a minute and a half. it has to make a decision it has to get you know the best deal has to get the address right there's
a lot of moving aspects in that and it did it successfully in just under like a minute and a
half so i think you found a good dca bot you know dabitola if you could save money eating pizza
you'd be rich not only off of bitcoin i think that uh it's impressive very impressive it's exciting
to have this and are going to be able to have this within you know your wallet
because right now you know i have like you know a couple things that you can i can't really do too
much but now this is just super charging uh the experience for me it's allowing me to do things
that i have to do elsewhere or i do elsewhere and I just use the wallet for, you know, approving my transactions. And that's it.
This is going to allow me to use,
to just use that to do a whole series of things that I have,
that I have been doing already and take it out, make it secure,
make it very efficient and, and just do it in one, in one place.
And the odd, you know, oddly enough, the irony here is that, you irony here is that by utilizing this and maybe just say
approving things here once in a while, the irony is that I'm just doing less so I wouldn't even
have to necessarily check within the wallet or go to all these different places. So this is
definitely exciting. And JP, when was the the rollout what were the
phases you were saying a little bit earlier coming up i think it was in the next month into
yeah sorry uh roger do you want to give us the timelines
yeah so we're rolling out uh closed internal beta we started with with that last week already. So things are live. We're getting
people to battle test them both internally as well as getting in folks who have experience
with agents. We want to do an alpha rollout next month or more like an open alpha, I guess.
So just to set expectations, this is all new new territory right uh we're not going to have
a day one go live with like 500 agents all doing great things uh we're gonna go a bit slower because
we're dealing with real people real people's money so the first few agents and bots will be live
early next month and we'll be opening up the program
to allow third parties to come in
and start proposing their plugins on agents.
That will have a review process associated with it.
So we're not just letting anybody walk in
and list potentially strange and scary things
on the marketplace.
But yeah, in the next three to four weeks, early May,
there should be things that people can actually try out and play around with. And it's only going
to get better from there as the marketplace grows and as people add up better implementations and
better use cases.
Rob, I have a question for you. Seems like you're on the development side or even audrey she answered
it and she spoke about it a little bit on the political um social side i came to twitter
specifically to look for meme coins and all coins i think back in 2017 i found it as a place where
like you can use the searches as a real-time query to pull up, you know, trending information, trending coins, coins that are,
you know, you know, grabbing volume or attention. Do you guys work with Twitter? And are you guys
paying for the API? Because it's super expensive for the average individual to pay like $5,000
to set up their own custom bot to pull information from Twitter. And I think that a lot of the tweets
and the engagement has a lot to say with the social aspect of investing, especially in crypto, maybe a little bit different for the stock market.
But how do you guys approach something like that?
And is it just for Twitter?
Are you guys using, you know, Reddit?
Are you using Facebook?
Are you using any of the other social media platforms as well?
Just a little interesting aspect of what you guys do
yeah i mean for multi-six site um we're building infrastructure for executing agents not for per se building or assembling the agent itself.
We don't take a stance on what data sources
you should be using.
We don't restrict you to which chains you should be using.
We just wanna make sure that you have a secure way
to propose and have transactions signed
and that there is a secure way to generate a feedback loop through reviews,
ratings, and provable transaction summaries, and that there is a secure way to revoke access
if you decide that you installed an agent that you don't like. Within that scope, what an agent does
to get its data or intelligence, we believe is best left to the agent. And I know there are cost restrictions and complexity restrictions, especially if the
dev is an individual or smaller team who doesn't have the money to go and pay for XAPI.
We want to support them.
We're going to be rolling out a grants program to help people bootstrap, cover hosting costs, cover
development costs, especially for smaller teams who need that support more. But at an institutional
and platform level, we don't want to force them and say, hey, we'll only give you a grant
if you use our proxy for the Twitter data. No, we'll just give you hard cash, find the best data for your agent and buy it.
We don't want to sort of pigeonhole you into a set of whitelisted things that we subsidize.
No, that's dope. That's amazing that you guys are literally empowering creators to go and create
the AI agents. And like you said, not pigeonhole just on certain applications or d apps so
and snooch you can make an npc ai agent that goes and buys coin undervalue gaming coins
with a platform like this so it does uh financially benefit you know a vast amount of people
it's just you have to get creative with with the technology and uh the the development which
is dope super Super dope.
According to Snooze, they're all under value
though, Doodles.
All the gaming tokens are under value?
I'm keeping my mouth shut right now.
Well, I guess
on that note, because
you can hear about an hour or so, does anybody
have any final thoughts?
Anybody want to throw anything out there and
plant the seed for the next time we get together?
I'll just add just a couple things here. One of the things I love to see is all the components
of the industry growth coming together. We finally got blockchain technology where we needed to be
like code capability. We've got multi-chain capabilities, we have wallet management, wallet security, ease of access for users, all those little pieces coming together.
AI, you know, enhancements to, you know, the hardware that's available so that we can actually
finally get the AI capabilities up to where they need to be, algorithms, everything that's coming
in, you know, the proliferation of stable coins all of those little pieces right
where i see ai agents like getting intel it's just really beautiful it's like it's like a watching a painting you know the artist you know actually doing the painting in
and it's really really fascinating i encourage people like think about this feel the frustration
of okay it's been years where's the match and where's that we were promised
You know, we've promised jetpacks, right? And one of the things I remind people is you're watching a masterpiece being painted
I mean, this is pretty amazing, right?
So these things take time and I'm so so encouraged and I'm so like honored and proud of you guys and so like
Excited to be on the stage with you guys to see what you guys are building. And I hope that
we get to use some of your technology
and some of your integrations on LS Network.
We'd be happy to have you. And
yeah, I look forward to
the next one and seeing what you guys have cooking.
Awesome. Thanks, guys.
Thanks for running a place in the space. Talk to you soon.
And Raghav, I'll catch you if we could catch up as well
you guys are awesome I just gotta say thank you all so much
it has been always
an awesome conversation when we get to talk to
Velti Sig about what's happening over there
just a reminder if y'all are in the space
well we did this for you thank you for showing up
thank you for hanging out with us
we don't take it lightly that's why we host spaces at all
kinds of weird hours so even Doodles can join us from thailand so um shout out to me
appreciate you being here brother um and everybody else that joined us on stage from humans cluster to
audrey and everybody else you guys are phenomenal speakers and just such such a wealth of insight so
thank you so much if you guys are listening and make sure you're following these speakers up here
because they are absolutely giving you a ton of value especially that Voltsig account and if you're not too sure
Well, I'm just reiterate Voltsig calm. That's we're gonna be able to download that wallet try it out
If you are a user check out the wallet
It's definitely one of those things
It's gonna be not only next level but a very different experience than what a lot of people have experienced
Voltsig is that next generation of crypto vault that eliminates the seed phrases and single points of failures and they are just
leveraging the threshold signature scheme um if you don't know what that is well we covered in
spaces and we would be happy to touch base with you guys if you have any questions just reach out
we are here for you this wallet is not only a wallet is going to expand to so much more which
is why i want to encourage devs to check it out because this app store that we're talking about integrating directly within a wallet where you don't have to
you know uh give up your security give up your privacy and your your private keys to a bot
instead we're going to do it the right way they're setting it up to where you can actually trust bots
and not you know mess with your funds um want to make sure that people are secure people are you
know using it to the best of their abilities.
And again, it's cutting edge technology.
Nobody's done this yet.
And it's just about time for us to actually get some of these things done.
So I'm excited to have you guys all on stage.
Hope to see you again.
We'll definitely run this back next week because we want more people to find out about technology and actually leverage it.
You guys are phenomenal.
Thank you all so very much.
I appreciate y'all showing up.
And we'll do this again, like like I said in a week's time
thank you so much have a great one everybody bye Thank you.
