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Will the Spot ETF Also Pump Sh!tcoins?🎙
Recorded: Jan. 2, 2024 Duration: 2:26:12Space Recording
Full Transcription
over the all over the mainstream news but these things are they're hard to it's hard to predict
if you don't have inside information about markets being made for some of those shit coins so i think
that's uh anybody who beats himself up over like oh i didn't get a position in bonk i didn't get a
position in pepe well you're you're not alone tons of us didn't get a position in those projects
some of us even heard about them early it's just hard to know whether or not you're going to get
those high net worth callers to come in and really build up that chart really build up that price
over time sustainably so a lot harder to uh to predict we got a couple additional speakers on
stage it looks like big piggy is struggling with uh with microphone but i but i suspect we should
be able to hear from daniel keller uh mike is good daniel gm hey good morning my favorite thing to
talk about in the new new year's shit coins i know i i knew i knew that about you dan yes that's
yeah yeah that's what i wanted to make sure you were on stage just to talk about purely speculative
zero fundamentals having absolute bottom tier garbage that's that's yeah on that note i wanted
to throw in so because i i think your your um your observation was pretty astute about the fact
you know it's the old adage that are rising you know tide lifts all boats um and i think that
definitely speaks volumes for the blockchain space i think you'll definitely see what i call premium or
blue chip products um start to ride i think the days of the meme coin chasing is probably close to over
and i'll tell you why uh i'm a firm believer that mean coins have really been created for one
thing and one thing only and that's really to separate you from your your quality assets uh your
btc your eth your things like that so i mean it's genius when you think about it you create something
with an ungodly market cap you print all of it instantaneously yeah you'll win a couple millionaires
along the way uh but you'll take back most of the premium or the gold chip uh blue chip stocks
or blue chip assets along the way so i don't i think what's going to happen is there's going to
be a clear separation from the assets that are like top shelf assets and then your you know dgens
will always degen they'll always have these you know uh bottom of the rung shit coins and i but what
i think you'll start to see is projects that that come out they'll start launching more conventionally
like normal business models i mean i think you always have these these you know cypherpunk based
products that are that'll be built out and i also think personally as nick spoke earlier about being
a maximalist i think i'm a proof of work maximalist i think one thing you're going to see uh as this
separation starts to happen is as the rails for proof of work become as easy uh for uh deployment for
scaling um i think you're going to see these things really start to trend in a direction where proof
of work starts to be a bit more superior um so i think the days of the meme coin scenario i
wouldn't say they're far gone because you know what he got bonked it just went ridiculous you know
recently but i think those days as we go through the etf as we go through real institutional money
coming into the space i think those start to fall by the wayside and they'll be few and far uh far
between um yeah i think people always love to degen and i think they'll always chase things that you
know they believe can make money but in the end what they'll start to see uh much like uh you know
like a 51 attack on bitcoin and satoshi nakamoto talked about it he said well you can 51 attack it
but eventually we're going to reach critical mass where it makes more sense just to mine it so you
know people will start to understand if i hold bitcoin if i hold flux if i hold ethereum if i hold
kda if i hold these assets that are legitimate assets and they're moving in a direction which
is parabolic it makes more sense for me to have my money in these blue chip pieces rather than going
out and buying some bullshit you know meme coin so i think it's going to be a re-education for the space
it's going to take a little bit for that to happen and there will be fortunes made and lost in
between as it moves up but just don't be dumb don't taste shit that you know they just want to
people just want to separate you from your quality assets and there's a reason for that so you know i
just say be be cautious as we move through these this next you know six months to a year uh because
things things are going to really move quick they really are yeah no totally agree daniel i appreciate
the urging the caution there too i think that what we might see though and i love this brought up earlier
with nick i think we're seeing more desperation in the markets than maybe we've ever seen before
so i think we might see more desperate behavior right including that sort of degenerate chasing yield
right chasing alpha because so many people are uh are experiencing just outright despair right when
they've seen their savings in the aggregate over two years seen their savings chopped down by 25 30
i mean you will see desperation and i think that you as soon as people see that there's
a massive sort of nugget of value that's uh that's aggregated around this etf the spot etf
i think that that is going to flow out into the more speculative stuff and and i think the net um
sort of net sentiment across more new participants will be kind of more on the side of desperation
and degeneracy um i i love that nick brought that up early but i think that i think the economy has
kind of beaten the morals out of a lot of people uh that if that i don't know that that sounds like
a little bit jaded a little black belt but but i think we will see more of that behavior you got
to be jaded on anything that's fiat right now i mean you're watching your you know let's say 20
over the past couple of years and you know loss of value if you you have money sitting in the bank
account right now you know that you're never going to accumulate uh be able to buy a house or really do
anything with fiat if you're losing that kind of you know uh value in your in your in your capital
every single year so um yeah i think it's going to be an interesting you know next six months to a
year and i do agree with you wholeheartedly i do think there are a lot of jaded folks out there right
now but seth we live in a debt-based economy and we need to retool ourselves so instead of being
you know uh thinking about how we chase profit or how we um you know spend our you know and this is
where crypto has gotten a bad name buyer lambos buyer foreigns whatever it is you know we got
to get back to where we actually understand what investing is and and and we have to we have to
understand that it's not always chasing the bright and shiny sometimes it's actually hey there are
some fundamental things and how do i balance a portfolio and i just don't ape into i just don't
yolo and you know go long and then get liquidated um these are all these are all things that we're
going to teach to an entirely new generation of investors and it's going to be a hard lesson to
learn yeah no absolutely hard lessons to be learned there but i think that sometimes especially when it
comes to trading people only learn at the end of a two by four and the markets are uh you know you
have taker you have makers and takers so we're going to continue to have people who uh who will take
a bad deal and continue to have people who will offer a bad deal and then uh and the only layer
in between them will be the order books so i don't know how fast we're going to be able to educate our
way through that um but we the the panel is stacked right now let me get to some other some other new
entrance on the panel and get some hands lucas had his hand up very very patiently but we also have a
new addition to the panel gary wood how are you this morning gary gm hey real quickly can you hear me
i'm on different headphones yep you sound great yeah it's good to be in the space i definitely uh
i i wanted to pop in earlier i just couldn't until this moment and i heard just a little bit plus of
course the title to give me some uh input on what the topic's going to be about uh dan was making
great points just now i heard part of that and um yeah i'm really i'm really keen on this because
in 2024 and 25 my interest is really uh bridging to legacy and uh conversation mostly with
entrepreneurs that build these other businesses outside of the crypto space that's my interest
as far as like volunteering time to this um it is the etf narrative is uh like the double-sided
sword that many people will comment on i think seth said something about it too about like what's
going to happen when people go further on the risk curve uh outside of what they're familiar with
right if they already were in legacy uh as far as like stocks or etfs or mutual funds and things like
that they may have a certain comfort that they can pick up a phone and call their broker or that
they can you know basically pay attention to some website interface to give them information on their
investments um and they also have normalized that they're going to pay you know one to two percent
in fees to uh basically a middleman right that is in a lot of ways not going to beat the s p i think
that even statistics have shown that uh that most middlemen in legacy as far as like your financial
advisor and things like that don't beat the s p um so like that's the normal side and it's great that
in some ways that there's trillions of dollars to come in but there is the fear that it's trojan horse
because uh fee to get in fee to get out fee during management even if you make roi and you now are
thinking that you're a crypto expert because you now have had etf exposure or uh some proxy right
and you learn that you can take some of that capital and put it into other things uh maybe
permissionless things uh like interfacing with web 3 or d5 or uh self-custody of bitcoin or playing
around in monero and things like that right like there's going to have a sense that you you made money
quote unquote in crypto because you had an etf and then you're kind of the noobs going into the
grindhouse uh in in a lot of ways so i i'm really interested to hear more input on you guys's perspective
as experienced people in this space sure we uh we also so lucas i know always brings a bit of a
political frame which i absolutely love um and lucas you had your hand up but but gary welcome to the
stage thanks so much for being here with us thanks so much for bringing up uh that added a bit of context
there with your uh with your family offices and right and your your uh your financial advisors
and everybody else who's in this who's in this ecosystem right who's in this giant monolith of
an industry right in in finance who um who are you know the original rug pull uh when it comes to
finance when it comes to investing the original rug pull is having somebody else manage your funds
and like you said do worse than the s p 500 good god um i mean the bar is i i won't i won't say it's
it's it's so low that you know nobody nobody can pass it but it's the bar is not that high lucas
what's on your mind you know well i've got to be quick mind too because i've got to take off here but
i just you know we the number that stood out to me at the end of 2023 was the fdic fdic uh best number
i could find had uh 117 billion in assets and there was 107 trillion dollars of debt in our five top
banks and it would seem to me that like uh a great place to be putting the debt that's going to be
sold would be a sector like crypto and and that has seemed to line up uh in the wake of the nair off
allegations to to just the conversation towards uh meme coins or layer two tokens you know in the wake
of the nair off allegations it's also seemed that um probably the political response to not being able
to turn off crypto was to begin to select chains and to select chains and to promote those transactions
that can be tracked and i think that we will see uh both like taxing uh done on on the selected
chains if you know what i mean because like if you think about even just like web2 experience
how difficult or how much of a barrier is it to add a couple of buttons or selections in the in the
checkout process so by making it easy through venmo and paypal and other applications in the banking
system to onboard on selected chains they will then be encouraging uh both meme coins which i i often
like think about in terms of like maybe a traditional bond market and then nfts which which require a lot more
um you know that there's a whole lot of of metaphors or analogous things that go with that but i think
that we will see them come in waves and the meme coins uh you know maybe layer ones and and then
instantly or or even like the jump to to meme coins will be uh i think we'll see it broadly and in all
chains you know those are the games those are the entry level um how do you get uh used to this ecosystem
so that to me is one of the greatest about this level and then the things that will begin to grow
out of the heuristics that develop there you know i love cbdc and and the thought of political uh you
know associations that we can do with these you know both cheap transaction costs also with with say
like solana um however that may be uh however that may you know be achieved and i'm rambling i will
see a massive pump though uh because we've created debt and uh you know to to too hot to keep uh price
in inflation down we have debt and possibly some of it how to take a haircut
awesome yeah lucas thanks for sharing all that i see nick yeah i see your hand up i want to welcome
a couple of uh a couple of new guests to the stage really fast and go back over to nick we got socal
crypto who is in currently in the midst of maintaining a new project a newly revived project
just kind of disclosure there so cal is uh is an awesome contributor to the crypto space long-time
contributor og and is now maintaining a new project some would put it on the side of the
shit coin i disagree and i can't wait to hear from socal about that this is not a sponsored space
100 community space but i love hearing from builders people the man in the arena frankly his his uh his
opinion is typically worth more than uh the one in the cheap seats so that's why socal's on stage
that's why you should listen to him god damn it um but we also have uh it immortal bit immortal who's
on stage shared with us a little prognosis for 2024 welcome both uh socal and immortal i want to
quickly get to nick's hand and then jump back over to you you two fine gentlemen to welcome to the
stage properly and hear from you but nick what's on your mind uh man i mean there's a lot on my mind
um i there's there's a lot of wisdom up here on this stage so and but there's only 20 people have
reposted or like this so um that's a that's a big giant problem so go to that bottom right hand corner
and repost this space like it prove that you are not a fed okay and uh help boost the signal for for
movie media um dan oh dan's gone dan's a busy guy um so when i'm thinking about the velocity of money
um there's there's a term in finance called the hot ball of money um and i think and that's generally
been like silicon valley you know vc money is the hot ball of money hedge funds that kind of stuff
i think there's um going to be the hottest ball of money which is going to be the bitcoin etf but that's
that hot ball of money is going to take a minute to get kicked off um the bitcoin spot etf is going to be
the single biggest adoption event in the history of cryptocurrency um like bar none and but it's
going to take a minute okay like there's going to be a launch there's going to be a a giant green dildo
candle after the announcement but then none of the normies are actually going to buy it right they're
going to wait for their financial advisor to get proper training which some of them are but a lot of
them like haven't done anything for december um because they're you know finishing up like tax
filings and stuff like that so then they're going to wait for their to get a prospectus right and to
get the email because we're not talking about gen sears they're not going to buy this spot bitcoin
etf these are gen xers and boomers and uh it's going to take months and months and months but it'll
be a slow a slow and steady melt up as this hot ball of money starts to form uh in the void of
where the american dream was and when you get to the halving and people who have been buying
the spot bitcoin etf are like oh wait there's literally half as much bitcoin floating around
now and all the paper bitcoin is kind of getting shaken out uh because exchanges with leverage aren't
able to like they're having problems with the bitcoin to actually settle um then you're going to see
the the real parabolic moves happen as the fomo the etf and the boomer fomo sets in because the boomers
are sitting on the just a huge amount i think it's i want to say it's 13 trillion dollars essentially
worth of assets and cash they are sitting on the most amount of wealth uh of any generation in the
history of this country by number and by percentage so as soon as the boomers start seeing these like 15
percent moves in a week on their spot bitcoin etf they're gonna be like what the frick that means i could
go to retire in in palm springs honey put it on a bitcoin and then now it's now it's off to the races okay
that is going to permeate out into because they're going to start calling me they're going to start
calling you they're going to start calling their friends and they're going to buy they're going to
download coinbase they're going to download kraken and whatever the hell ftx ends up being and then
they're going to find all these other things that are posting like 30 40 80 percent gains are you like
what the hell martha look at all these coins martha damn okay but here's the thing folks
yeah and boomers have needed they've needed a place to launder their ill-gotten gains for
the better part of 40 years anyway right like this is the surfing storm looks seth they they they
looked they watched as the federal government took the american dream out to a field and put two rounds
into the back of its head in 1971 so you know what good on right all right good on and then called it
right and then and then called it a suicide yeah and they called it a suicide so guys then i'll just i'll
wrap up my sermon i'll get through real quick well we're all taking profits and we're dumping on
retail right and we're dumping on those boomers in 2025 because they're buying our bags if i see any
single one of you buy a brand new lambo i'm going to personally find you hunt you down and punch you
in the face because you need to be flipping these things these monies into actual assets not not freaking
dollars you need to be putting them into assets so you're going to appreciate and hold their value
because the the train is over okay this is this is the end of the dollar 2030 is going to be a
totally new monetary system and you're grabbing your bag on the way out i swear to god if you start
buying lambos i'm going to be rightfully pissed so yeah okay i'm hearing it now we need to coin a new
term for for nick land bows useful land bows that's what you say we should buy bows of land not not
lamborghinis got it noted
hey so i'm seeing lucas with his hand up being very polite and uh and i do want to get to socal
crypto we uh we already lost another one oh he literally came in just to spam the jumbotron
what a piece of shit blacklisted okay let's go lucas what's on your mind amen what a piece of
shit nick i just want to push back i mean i i get the narrative in 1971 but nixon admitted
that the united states would have been lying about how many dollars that they produced for a long time
before that and and i think it's important to note that you know like we started robbing the rest of
the world so starting in 1944 with the breton woods system but we what the the federal reserve system goes
back to 1862 and 1863 and and it began to rob the regional and private banks of the price of
commodities that had you know it didn't it it it's flopped the the denominator from commodities to
securities and started our fascinated fascination with securities you mentioned the velocity of money
earlier you know like it it it made an inequitable it made a unfair advantage to urban areas like why
do we start moving to urban areas after that because transaction fees you know how was the dollar also
funded with an income tax a transaction fee rather than the land and property tax uh that that the
commodity regional systems were propped up on and and now we no longer have country banks you know they're
all city banks yeah oh my gosh you're you're totally right you're totally right about just there being a
inequity in the money system and look there there people talk about late-stage capitalism and i will
my rebut to that is oh you mean early-stage communism uh there is no capitalism in a system in an economic
system that has central bank you know the federal reserve it was kind of in and out you know in the 1800s
it's it was really hard to centralize that amount of money uh but you know in 1913 when the fed was
created um that's really when the american dream um started to receive its arsenic drip um and then
nixon i mean nixon wasn't in control like okay that's nixon was just like yeah i had to do this because
the central banks were were running the country um and we were warned about this by many presidents
before 1913 and it it would it tried to raise its head a couple times it got chopped off uh but then
eventually got um you know got put in place and it's it's unraveling itself in in in 8k for all of
us to see right now but yeah i agree with you it goes a little bit farther back but just 1971.
well not yeah no amazing and i've got it i've got it guys but but yeah yeah yeah please go ahead
part of those commodities see you seth thank you for having me up yeah lucas always a pleasure thanks
for spending some time with us this morning happy new year happy new year thanks for being here with
us discussing these ideas and helping to prepare hopefully anybody who's uh who's who's trying to
get the education necessary to not get shaken out of the upcoming bull run um i know it sounds crazy
but in in the upcoming everyone's a genius season i think we're already determining based on
what we're saying there will be a lot of sand traps there will be a lot of uh fool's gold
so so thanks lucas for coming up and educating uh with your unique perspective always a pleasure
so call crypto you've been on stage for a minute good morning gm tell us a little bit about what
you're working on your perspective the the main through line the main topic for today is the
upcoming you know the the pending bitcoin spot etf and what it's uh maybe some unintended consequences
in the shit coin markets will the spot etf bring with all that fresh liquidity that we're
expecting right possibly trillions what will that do to meme coins shit coins everything else
everything that's not bitcoin what kind of capital inflows do you think we're going to see in those
other markets as a result of the etf but also just how are you man good morning hey good morning
dude um you can hear me right yes sir coming through loud and clear all right cool just making sure i
wasn't having any weird issues um thanks for inviting me first and foremost uh sorry i showed up a little
late had a little couple errands to run this morning anyway uh to touch on the first topic which is the
topic of the space the spot etf and uh any run-on effects that may occur from matt uh what i'm expecting
personally is uh the catalyst to the next bull run i mean technically sort of kind of already started
but mainly from what i can see because it looks like the etf is about to get approved and i do not
think this is going to be one of those sell the news events for the simple reason of we are looking
at potential billions of dollars in inflow just into bitcoin and you know the that these institutional
players they're not going to be happy with just bitcoin they want the crazy meme coin returns that
we're seeing they want the 10 000 rois they want the 20 000 you know all that kind of crazy stuff so they
will be playing in the shit coins to what extent i can't say but i it will definitely have a knock-on effect
on at least the higher tier shit coins some of the you know let's say top 100 or so uh at the very least
um yeah we were i was actually discussing this with my friends this morning with some of my friends this
morning uh the effects this would actually have on coinbase um i believe that uh on coinbase's stock
more precisely i know dirty trad fi but it is related to the bitcoin etf uh because coinbase is the chosen
custodian for the vast majority of the etf applicants and if those etfs all get approved then that is
potential hundreds of millions billions of dollars that will be under coinbase's custodian custodian
jeez i cannot speak sorry but uh more importantly coinbase is going to be getting the custodian fees
for those hundreds of millions or potentially billions of dollars under their custody that's
going to be incoming so i think that that's probably going to push up coinbase's stock price as well
because it's going to push up their operating income and their revenue um so that's basically
where i stand on the etf i think you know we're standing on the on the cusp of another big bull run
um so that that's how i feel about that right now amazing yeah thank you for bringing that up as well
is yeah that um the the net uplift to all the service providers so you got your coin bases you have your
bny melons all the custodians for usdc right who who are uh who are playing in sort of the the circle
groups uh it's hard not to say it because the jokes is right themselves right you got circle group and
you got a bunch of their preferred vendors um but um i'll refrain because i don't want to be crass or djn
but you know what i'm saying right uh there's a close close-knit group of friends there in the circle
group and their their preferred vendors i think there's gonna be an uplift uplift to all of them
right because they're they're all involved somewhere in the chain of custody brilliant
observation so cal thanks for bringing that up as well because we we hadn't touched on that just yet
but uh let's talk a little bit about what you're building too because i know right now
i mean the community that you're working with might i mean are you already seeing some signs of
some exuberance coming from the announcements right behind the rumor all that um all right so not to
self-shill too hard um all right let's let's start at the beginning so uh what had happened was
every great lie starts like that by the way um now that's a joke but anyway um
so everybody i'm sure has heard of bells coin by now which was an old uh old old uh pow chain from like
2014 or 15 that the co-founder of doge coin uh actually it was like one of his first coins that he made
and somebody unearthed it brought it back to life they they actually uh well kind of sorta um they
restarted the chain so technically if you're a purist it's an entirely new coin now but anyway point is
uh that coin was revived uh based more or less solely on the fact that it was the dogecoin
founder's first coin well somebody managed to find charlie lee's first coin uh the the litecoin
founder uh because he did make a coin before litecoin and that coin was called fairbricks
uh to the best of my knowledge it was the second coin to use the script algorithm it was a fork of
tenebricks which was the first uh script algorithm coin uh but it had a massive pre-mine so charlie lee
decided to make his very first coin which was fairbricks which did not have the pre-mine that
tenebricks had um well anyway uh shortly after that uh fairbricks launched with charlie at the helm
uh it apparently came under uh several uh sophisticated hash rate attacks uh 51 attack
time warp attack you know all all the all the oldies but goldies so um about two or three weeks after
launch charlie lee left the you know shut it down well he didn't you know you can't turn off a
uh net a whole you know distributed network but you know he stopped he closed the thread and said hey
i'm making a new coin which then became litecoin but because you know this coin's been attacked blah blah
blah so he abandoned fairbricks and that was in 2011 when all this happened so that's when
fairbricks was was started well anyway about two weeks ago i think two weeks ago yeah that sounds
right uh two weeks ago somebody found uh fairbricks charlie lee's first coin and more importantly they
managed to rescue because even though charlie had removed the link uh they somehow anchored it with
the wayback machine anyway they managed to rescue the uh windows qt wallet release
for fairbricks that charlie had uh you know compiled and put up uh charlie still has the source code
for fairbricks hosted on his github he did not delete that but he deleted all the wallet well the only
wallet release he made so uh what the heck man charlie when you listen to this back charlie what
the heck what the absolute f well i i believe it was because he was a young new developer this was his
first coin there was uh we've been digging through the the code and the daemon and everything and there
there were a lot of mistakes made but uh anyway uh so going back to about two weeks ago somebody found
it posted it said hey look i found charlie lee's first coin and here's the wallet release so i saw
that and jumped on it and i kind of lurked for four or five days in the discord that the person set up
um to see kind of what their intentions were and uh also you know i was testing to see if this this
was a virus and whatnot and all that kind of greatness you know because you never know in crypto
so uh you know yeah no for for sure well and abandoned projects too i mean reviving old abandoned
projects that's that's like an entirely different category separate category of of blockchain uh
blockchain maintainership we'll just say like dealing with any kind of a code base or uh whether
it's a token or a full sovereign chain that has its own consensus um it just seems like reviving old
projects comes with an entirely unique set of risks and an entirely unique set of rewards right like
being able to uh revive old bags and possibly bring in old stakeholders but then like you're saying with
that added aspect of proof of work there's a fair opportunity for any new entrance just jumping
in and wanting to contribute hash rate right like you do level the playing field a little bit more
than that than say just bringing back an old token um but let's let's shift gears here a little bit
and talk about like uh with what you've been seeing so far with the community response what is it like
kind of bringing a bit of that that like old school crypto flavor back into the current ecosystem when i
saw you doing this for example i mean you it got my attention so much that i i i'm just i'm just
going to come out and say it i literally spammed all of the gpu mining channels like any channel
that may be doing script mining right now with dogecoin and litecoin i was like hey guys uh
little you know fun fact this project is being brought back from the dead like i couldn't resist
like a moth to the flame bro because it was so interesting right it just you know it's grotesque
and awesome and fascinating and fucking ridiculous right long like all we have are long shots in crypto
that's it all we have so when somebody like yourself that's qualified to actually look through
some of that like you mentioned that the desktop wallet right qt wallet whatever else and qualified
to say like i know we're doing some bug fix i'm going to fix some things before we release this
that brings some confidence right as opposed to just like copy pasta you know uh rinse repeat like nick
was mentioning earlier right there's gonna be so many low effort entries as we start to see price
appreciate even more it's just gonna it's gonna 10x the number of low effort entries and i didn't
perceive this as being low effort if anything it was like no no this is this is this is cool this is
like this is the this is the ancient dark magic that made crypto awesome the first time so um let's
talk about things that you've seen that that are that are giving you a hope for um for the market and
maybe you know these this crossover bridge space that you're currently in where yeah there's some
memetic value but there's also you know strong fundamentals too it is it is built on a foundation
that isn't entirely sand um what are you seeing so far that gives you hope for this market or uh
or uh you know does at least give you more perspective well uh uh first to finish up with
fairbricks real quick i do have to say that i am not a developer uh not by a long shot uh i'm more just
the project manager i uh i brought all the developers on to the project they're all people
that i know personally and have known for years and years and years and i trust explicitly so uh but
yeah i just wanted to clarify that i'm i'm not the one doing the heavy lifting coding uh but it is people
that i very much trust and have have been in crypto for at least as long as i have which is 2013.
awesome yeah i absolutely love that on that note um big piggy has requested speaker status again
should be up on stage soon so we got a couple of ogs who've been um who've been either adjacent to or
literally touching the code in blockchain for about that length of time um i i i like my friends
to uh in the og flavor in crypto right like if you don't have 10 years experience in this industry
go go get you a friend that does um but let's talk about that people who you've trusted
who you know you can trust because they've been uh sifting through white papers they've been
sifting through github repos for 10 years with that that added emphasis of blockchain um oh yeah
is that why you jumped into this this project or but i apologize i keep interrupting yeah
at first it was just the one guy who actually rediscovered the coin uh who i did not know at that
point in time uh everybody else on the team uh it was after i decided to you know i saw this guy
struggling and uh he didn't seem to have any really ulterior motives uh that i managed to to find and
you know i didn't find any uh obvious issues with the wallet that he put up and and everything like
that so i didn't perceive him to be an outright scammer and i still don't he's still on the team
but anyway it was just him and i saw him struggling so i decided to help him out and as you said because
i've been in crypto for a decade now i know a lot of people uh that's my secret superpower is i know
everybody so uh uh uh i i brought in i reached out to a couple of uh a long-time devs that i knew and
that i trusted very much uh these are guys that you know i met in 2013 through crypto and we've been
in the trenches together ever since and and there there's a lot of trust there and reasoning for it
but i won't get it go into all of that but anyway point is i trust these guys and i i brought the whole
team on um i'm sure you've seen the discord server how it's been improved uh that was all my nephew
he's a professional discord moderator so he i brought him on and he's also uh does some uh he's in school
for for programming so he's helping the devs out as much as he can uh you know i'm just doing everything
i can to try and uh ensure that this project is a success to the best of my abilities at least
awesome okay so so you're going with uh with a tried and true formula of assembling good people
who have significant amounts of experience in in the ecosystem but you're not bringing in notably
you're not bringing in vcs or market makers yet this is kind of this is that that old school like
spray and pray oh yeah no this is all entirely self-funded by me um uh there has been no pre-mine
no pre-sale we did not restart the chain it is still the original chain all the way back reaching
all the way back to 2011 uh yeah there's no vcs or any kind of crap like that um right now because
of now this is not necessarily because of uh uh ideology more of a function of the uh broken code
base but uh like i said we're working on it but right now it's solo mine only so we don't even
have to worry about asics or nice hash because it's just script algorithm hash rate for script
algorithms dirt cheap you can get a giga hash for like two three dollars a day uh on on some of the
rental sites so this hash rate is very cheap so it's a very big concern with asics and uh rental rented
hash rate coming in and and wrecking things but uh as of right now that's not a problem because
it's solo mine only right now so you have to have a local gpu or cpu to be able to mine the coin right
now which entirely precludes rented hash rate and uh asics because you know asics don't support the
get work protocol they use stratum wow wow i hadn't thought about that yeah that you're reviving a
code base that is that is a pre stratum code base that had never previously been updated even for
stratum that's um geez yeah now like it's a weird i i can't i can't guarantee anything obviously but i i
you know do have developers that uh are are skilled looking into it and working on it and trying to
trying to get this code base up to date and modernized to give it some more of uh the
functionality that that bitcoin has today that's one of the things we're going to be looking at you
know provided we can fix the the demon and everything uh because that's the big thing when the demon was
compiled most of the rpc functionalities were not enabled so you cannot set up a pool you can't do
exchange integration or anything like that yet uh that is the biggest thing we need to fix then that
we are working on right now uh well more precisely that the devs are working on but uh once if we can
get that fixed and updated then we can start looking at uh better things like okay what bips do we want to
start integrating what do we want to take what do we want to leave what can we do here i know another
one of the big things that we have that uh planned for upgrading you know provided we can fix the demon
is the um uh difficulty retarget algorithm it is painfully ancient it's very bad so that's like one of the top
priority things to get fixed uh the wallet if you've seen it is absolutely
ancient and decrepit it is hilarious um that's another thing that we have slated for all sorts
of improvements you know provided that we can fix the demon but uh we're working on it but like i said
i i can't promise anything but i'm gonna try my damnedest that's awesome hey i want to welcome
to the stage big piggy it looks like you got a stable enough microphone to uh to join the
conversation big piggy gm good to see you good to hear from you what is uh what's your take on all
this stuff about this the bitcoin spot etf being a a proverbial rising tide to lift everything including
really speculative coins really young experimental projects like what so-called crypto is working on
and even shit coins um what's your take on all this
um well good morning seth and thanks for having me on uh it's a pleasure to be here
uh i think we're we we've heard a lot of people mention desperation i think that desperation
is going to manifest a lot more strongly in a lot of places i think we might see something like
in the uk we had uh disgust is not apathy don't vote movement after labor won the elections in the late 90s
and i think we're going to see something like that financially a lot of people are going to in disgust
throw their money into absolutely random things
as we come up
yeah no that makes absolute sense that's that's part of the reason that we wanted to have this
space was we wanted to discuss some of the possibilities there it seems like specifically
capital inflows are going to so it's fantastic for shit coins it's fantastic all the way around but
yeah absolutely hey big piggy it sounds like we're we're having a little bit of a time delay between
your input and the rest of the conversation so um yeah i apologize it's going to make it a little
more difficult to get through the conversation but i see gary's hand is up gary what's on your mind
so just rechecking the mic you can hear me right
yes and uh and it seems like we do not have a time delay between our side of the conversation
great so um i think that this is going to spark a lot more marketing in general like uh the ones
that are running the etfs they're going to you know say hey this is a new customer base this is a
new you know thing that we can promote uh they can borrow some of the words that have been thrown
around for 15 years in the crypto space about like uh here's the return and if only you'd gotten in
bitcoin 15 years ago if only you had uh you know participated in ethereum like they're going to borrow
a lot of the language that's been promoted uh about the asset class in general uh they'll even i think
they'll even promote that hey you know we may not recommend that you get into uh uh one particular
thing you know or they'll just funnel funnel their their marketing to their their existing customer
base so they can also grab new market um i think there's going to be a lot of bleed over in the
narrative of uh what's a real world asset what's uh something you can believe in like someone had
said earlier i can't remember who it was about coinbase stock and they'll say hey look uh this is what
coinbase has done as far as numbers in the past you know three four or five years and here may even be
the marketing of this is somewhat cyclical uh with the bitcoin happening right so i think there's gonna
be a lot of blurred lines and you know funneling of course and the the fear factor for people that are
not in crypto right now is what if they make the rules uh later saying that the thing that i bought
is no longer illegal or now it's a security and it can't be traded or whatever so i think that they're
going to you know basically capture trillions of dollars because they're the middleman they're the
ones that can take the regulatory heat they're the ones that are going to have lobbyists on k street
they're the ones that are going to basically promote you know them being a centerpiece in the
you know in the crypto space as it as it applies to uh regulated regulated um you know authorities
regulation and so forth what are your thoughts about like it pumping other markets because in crypto the
big thing is um like you perceive many of us all of us think of bitcoin's price per
unit and we like to promote the market cap and there's some ambiguity about what can be
traded like uh will satoshi's coins ever come to the surface or will or is he basically just assumed not
to ever come into into circulation right well if you buy an etf if you buy a share in a company you're
going to have quarterly reports you know surely there's going to be you know still the potential
high potential for shadiness uh hypothecation you know what's redeemable all that kind of stuff like
that right but like in general i think they're just going to borrow from the fact that you can't lose
your share we're still going to be the centerpiece that you're you know reassured by your government that
this is not uh mixed with iran coins this is you know they may even promote that they're only going
to buy virgin coins from a launch or virgin coins from you know directly from a miner things like
that so there's gonna be all kinds of marketing that will that will i think centralize a lot of the
crypto space yeah no i love that gary thanks for bringing that up last cycle i was uh i was asked by
a group out of wyoming to start arranging um freshly mined coins right so coinbase trans coinbase
transactions through my community to find mid-scale miners or large-scale miners anybody who was willing
to sell at a favorable price point but um but in a way that provenance could be thoroughly proved
right on chain where it was you could see the hop from coinbase transaction or payout from a pool right
which is not strictly speaking the uh the freshest coinbase transaction but it's as close as we can get
these days um with pooled mining being being a primitive but yeah being able to being able to
show provenance on chain and uh so that investors in this company in wyoming could be compliant with
any future regulations as they you know saw things coming down the pipeline they could stay compliant
and just show like yeah these are these these coins are air quotes made in america like they didn't
they didn't know whether or not the miners were using the vpn or any other any other possible you know
um internet tunnel to be able to make it look like the coins were mined in the united states
uh because there's there's a whole meta like literally a meta layer to all of this blockchain
stuff and that is that you have um web 2.0 all the all the information security best practices of
web 2.0 they're still applying web 3 they're still applying blockchain and so you can have
a large cadre of miners who you would say like oh my gosh you know thank goodness we're keeping all
those hash rates stateside thank goodness we're we're mining all these coins in the u.s uh the
gary a lot of investors certainly a lot of a lot of custodians and investors and regulators here in
the united states they if pressed they couldn't tell you whether or not a coin was mined in the united
states or if it was literally mined in the heart of russia right in the heart of siberia they would
never know and um and so we've got some problems there too like you say it's a marketing narrative
but is it a reality um are we definitely going to see that there's more of the industry definitely
moving the united states well no we've seen just the opposite and this uh the passage of a bitcoin
spot etf maybe it forms the cornerstone of new regulation that brings more business to you know
developed nations right like friendly developed nations such as the uk australia um united states
canada but i think that we've been pushing out so much to other areas of the world that um that
even with the bitcoin spot etf it might not quite have the effect that we hope it might be this delayed
right this this delayed market reaction or response to the spot etf being passed when it finally gets
passed precisely because so much of the industry has left the so there's so much that just like that
that has just fled the united states that even this measure it might be a very delayed response
potentially um because of that as well but i love that you brought that up i love that you brought
up um yeah narrative shifting as uh as we see more progress being made on the spot etf um but big piggy
how's your mic working can we hear you this time and uh and are you are you hearing me okay
yeah we might we might have uh an additional delay because of some uh some tunneling or routing that
big p he's he's um he's an og so he's a little bit paranoid and i can't say i blame him but um but
yeah no gear i love that you brought that up so cal let's talk a little bit not not so much just about
about fair breaks but just in general um what you see as the opportunity for for tokens and meme coins
and so-called shit coins right now what are you seeing just based on the community response of you
reviving an old fundamental project um what do you think about the bitcoin spot etf and tokens like bonk
or like pepe or you know will there be a next you know another new bonk or new pepe do you think
that's going to happen with all these capital inflows i think it definitely will happen um
mainly just not even so much to do with the impending capital inflows but just the cyclical
nature of markets and human nature i mean there's always going to be the next hottest meme or viral
whatever and somebody will turn that into a token and that token will take off and i say a token
because those are extremely cheap and quick to deploy versus a native blockchain coin uh like
fairbricks sorry not to bring it full circle back to fairbricks but yeah so uh uh there's always going
to be um tokens that are tapped into the zeep guys so to speak um that that will be being launched over
time as you know new memes uh uh appear or whatever you want to say are created so uh don't die multiply
exactly now the viability of the meme coins the long-term stability of such is almost non-existent
because it's just like the internet i mean it is something based off of something from the internet
and you know how quickly the the hottest viral trend or whatever gets replaced by the new one
so i think that's probably so it's i'm trying to find a nice way of saying that most meme coins are
going to be a game of hot potato um i don't think they have very long-term viability there might be
one or two like you know doge being a all i mean obviously it's the og meme coin but on top of that
it's actually managed to uh have long-term viability whereas most of these other ones are flash in the pan
maybe 24 hours maybe a week maybe a month uh what bonks going on what like a month or so now
going strong yeah the only difference is it has i mean it's got tens of millions of dollars sloshing
around in it right so every 24 hours you got uh every 24 hours somebody is somebody is printing
millions in profit um so yeah on the one hand yes it's just another random meme on the other hand
there are people divesting and and uh and pulling real liquidity out pulling real wealth out of it
so yeah other one is oddballs meme coins are a definite possibility that the problem is they're
so unpredictable you don't know what well first off you don't know when one is going to be launched
and secondly you don't know what's gonna really take off you get what i'm saying
so like with bonk i mean how many random meme based tokens were being launched at the same time
as bonk but bonk is the one that took off and then it comes down also to the team behind bonk are they
going to say hey we actually created something here let's see what we can do with it and are they
going to try to build or are they just going to sell all the tokens they have and walk away and just
let it do what it does uh so there's a lot of variables to consider yeah no i love that question
but i think the other question is do they have to build anything around it does there have to be
an ecosystem does everything have to have its own app specific chain for example and its own decks and a&m
does it have to talk to the astronauts that have to give you a a real-time update of the supply chain
specifically of one brand of t-shirt in malaysia i don't know that blockchains have to do this
in order for us to think that or view them as investable i think they can have some function but
yeah sorry sorry i didn't mean to interrupt you but i i would say that they don't uh they don't have to
to have or do uh anything in particular i mean especially when it comes to meme coins because
i mean the whole thing is about the meme when it comes down to it so how far can you take that and
how far do you actually have to take that uh you know very good question but and again speaking
specifically to meme coins um i mean that's their whole uh i guess you could call it thesis is
they're a freaking meme like there is no product to invest in there is no road map there is no
apps there's no decks there's no nothing it's a meme and uh i i kind of see it as a
evolution of the internet because um everybody since since the beginning of the internet the
internet's kind of been used by that that edge fringe group that's very uh
anti-establishment i guess you could say has anti-establishment leanings it's always always
been always has but that's what you know crypto was founded on uh the the cypherpunk ideals and
everything you know that kind of uh those kinds of people and and so i think this meme coins is the
next evolution of of that kind of tongue-in-cheek you know ah screw you kind of thing but to wall
street whereas you know there's wall street quants who you know they're looking at uh
uh earnings before interest and and immortalize all that kind of crap and all you know they're
looking at p and e ratios they're looking at all sorts of crap and these random internet
you know generally speaking cypherpunks are literally making millions of dollars off of
memes i i kind of see it as the next evolution of like the ah screw you guys you know screw you man
no completely it's it it is it adds insult to injury in the direction of regulators and the
establishment completely agreed right where it's like not only are we going to succeed we're going
to do it on our terms and we're going to make fun of you like middle fingers up the entire time
we're going to succeed financially on our own terms meme coins are the the perfect embodiment like you're
saying of of cypherpunk culture right because it's like hey we we also i mean they're called
cryptocurrencies because they're built on cryptography so good luck cracking that i mean
really go ahead and try we want to get better at hardening this cryptography surrounding these
assets that we like so like what could be more cypherpunk than than like you said a unilateral win
right on the tech side on the cultural side and then on the financial side it's a total victory
right we get to sweep uh all of that away from the establishment kind of a cool um yeah cool ideal at
the same time we're discussing the spot etf what could be more establishment than etf right so big
pig yeah see you're off mute how's that how are things working out for you on your on your text
am i actually coming through in real time now i think so yeah i think we're having a real
conversation okay awesome um great i mean i'm not quite sure if bonk really fits into the category of
regular meme coins uh it's been market made very heavily certain market makers uh are advertising it as
one of their success stories they're posting to clients at the moment uh i i'm i'm i'm not convinced
that it contains a whole lot of cypherpunk ideals and anything other than a money grab really to be
honest sure let's talk about that there's there's a there's a broad distinction i think you're right
and i mentioned earlier that what socal is working on and some of the projects like what you're working
on these they're a lot harder to pigeonhole frankly they're a lot harder to uh to categorize versus some of
these meme tokens like bonk or pepe were like you like you're saying yes absolutely true that a
benefactor stepped in and made those markets that's just a fact anybody who doesn't know that just
doesn't know this the full story but yeah totally agreed no contest there socal has an idea on the
matter though so so i'd love to open it up for you two to to uh go back and forth a little bit of
rebuttal obviously in a friendly way this is this is what i love about this space and what i love about
you too is that you've got enough of the receipts over the last 10 years that we can have an intelligent
conversation here but um but socal what's on your mind i was just gonna say uh in response to big
piggy uh i was speaking at meme coins in general more about the uh cypherpunk ideals because you know
it doesn't have to do anything but anyway moving on from that that's all i wanted to say about that
was uh also completely agree i i did say earlier i did uh uh you know uh preface everything with
those institutional guys are gonna probably play around in shit coins because they want these ten
thousand percent returns these twenty thousand percent returns that some of us are seeing with
these meme coins so i did preface it with saying that institutional guys are not gonna stay away from
the shit coin trenches forever and uh they're most likely already there but it's just a matter of how big
will they make their presence known uh but yeah so it's completely unsurprising what you said about
bonk uh just want to say i did preface it earlier with saying that the big institutional guys will try
and get their piece of the pie no matter what absolutely guys i want to i want to welcome to the stage
sorry big piggy while you're going there i want to briefly welcome to the stage dr kapil uh amara singha who is uh
who is a notable contributor to the particle ecosystem as well as all of their uh yeah all
of the attached dexes and marketplaces um but but yeah privacy advocate guy who understands a thing or
two about blockchain as well i just want to welcome a new speaker to the stage but big piggy go on uh yeah
i i just wanted to say i completely agree with you i just wanted to point out that bonk wasn't really
what we're what we in general consider meme coin to be because of exactly what you mentioned
and by the way i have to say i love running fairbricks it's quite nostalgic to be back there and mining again
i think solid coin was actually before tenebricks and fairbricks but they rugged kind of quickly
can't quite remember the timeline of all those events back then but it was
yeah happy chaos yeah i mean there's a lot of firsts back from that that era of blockchain right
i was just uh waxing nostalgic with one of my brothers who ran a mining pool for black coin one
of the earliest pool uh pools for mining black coin now i i do just want to be in uh for full
transparency big piggy and everyone listening uh i didn't get into crypto until the very end of 2013
so fairbricks was even before my time by a good two years at least uh so if i if i was mistaken and
stating that tenebricks was the first script coin then i apologize but so full transparency i didn't
get in until the end of 2013 that's awesome so just for the for a timeline for the audience's benefit
you're literally talking about coins that were around since before seed phrases were made a a regular
feature of blockchains i mean like before bip 39 yes you like like i said if you have not seen
the fairbricks wallet yet that's one of the big uh problems i'm having to field from users is you
know they come in and ask hey where do i where do i back how do i get my my seed phrase to back it up
and i have to explain to them hey this this coin predates that that doesn't exist yet for this in
this coins code base we have to update it first no i love that on that note and working with legacy
code bases that are that are always looking you know for new new functions to to roll in right or
or to uh to address the current pain of users um i'd love to get dr cap right and this is we call
him for short but dr kapil his take on on some of this bitcoin etfs and capital inflows what do you
think is going to happen to some of these projects and and some of these even meme coins and shit coins
uh it's a really good question and also love this topic first things first happy new year
seth hope you had a great christmas and same to everyone else who's sort of listening in on this space
um and then second thing on the subject of meme coins literally before i joined this space i think
i accidentally came up with something so i'm going to reintroduce myself my name is dr cap and i am
herald of bear bull moon and hold the four horsemen of the crypto apocalypse and i shall now give you
my divinations on the state of bitcoin etfs and inflows and capital gains and meme coins and i will tell
you something for this is a story a story that stretches far and wide and one that i have seen
for many a year since 2016 in fact when i was in this space for you remember pepe coin i remember
pepe coin and i will tell you now i have seen every coin pump and i have seen every coin dump and i have
seen some coins that have dumped re-pump back into the stratosphere for you see the key thing in this
mystery the key unlocker to the equation that is cryptocurrency it is liquidity it is the flow the
flow the essence of life that flows through all of us the exchange of information the exchange of
energy the exchange of value and by opening the etfs to the bitcoin ecosystem we shall see much much
value flow flow from institutions to which has been previously locked out of and yes it will be the
pension funds they will fomo in and will be the big hedge funds they will fomo in and even the
merchant banks and the men of jp and morgan their knights shall shine the torch and goals from
their phrases of saying no more bitcoin to forever more bitcoin and money shall flow and liquidity will
grow in this space and the value of bitcoin shall eventually skyrocket as more and more south american
nations and developing nations and other nations start adopting it as their digital gold standard and we
shall see the shift of liquidity from the ecosystem of fiat into the ecosystem of crypto from dark into
night into the light it shall shine and our money will be pure again but you see it is in the mean coins
and the shit coins that liquidity can be recycled yes recycled let us not forget that our liquidity can be
recycled and renewed once more let us not forget that for when you have bit pumped bitcoin once
you can pump a million shit coins a thousand times over again and there will be opportunities for
everyone in this market and i say to you don't watch the coin watch the daily volume look at the trends
from day to day i like a hawk don't scan your coin market caps and don't scan your coin paprika's my
preferred tool by the way don't scan them in rank of market cap reorder your quests by daily volume
and look at the way where the places where the daily volume seems so disproportionately high compared
to the market cap because that will tell you perhaps this coin is going to pump and i urge you to watch
a documentary by arnold schwarzenegger to really understand the pump because you must be prepared for the pump
yay verily yay verily however uh sorry uh sorry i'm gonna stop but also yes me thinks me thinks the
gentleman doth soliloquize too much but uh this has been this has been phenomenal dr cap thank you for
it thank you for that um yay verily i can attest that all all all of that which thou has heard of that
which thou has said is the uh is the truth i can say that i can say that with an honest face you know
in plain english like anyone would would um yay verily i want to welcome to stage also really
briefly uh crypto magazine i think it's nathan behind the account we got we've got several brothers
from other mothers from across the pond it's so great to hear you guys this morning for us this
morning but uh crypto magazine nathan is that you behind the account today it is indeed my friend how
are you hey i'm doing well i apologize i i cut the uh so locally short from dr cap and honestly he's
right we could just let him finish out the space we could just go on for the next 30 minutes i
think he could do it too but i wouldn't want to leave him that much as a fellow brit how do i even
follow that i mean yeah that was amazing i thought it was great yeah i know right so full-time doctor
part-time uh part-time voiceover actor dr cap but but we'll we'll jump into uh nathan some of your
thoughts on all of this i mean the the macro point rather or the theme of today's of today's community
space is primarily just yeah bitcoin etf spot etf and how it might affect every other market
right there there'll be some unintended negative consequences negative externalities but then
there'll be some happy accidents too right that that most of us are are pleased to see happen what
do you see in your crystal ball for all of that to say the truth and by the way uh happy new year
and what an amazing space is today the the knowledge set in the in the room is absolutely amazing um
and to get everyone's opinions i think is fantastic i mean um i was actually listening and a few people
had um uh i wanted just to jump in on the whole um mean coin side of the conversation and a few people
uh kind of had uh very similar and a couple of conflicting um opinions and one thing that um i've
said before is i actually don't think a lot of people realize the difference and and this actually
includes developers themselves the difference between a shit coin and a mean coin um i actually
had a client i won't mention any names that that phoned me and said yeah we have we've been running for
five six months and we're looking for some additional marketing and we've got a meme coin
and the first question i said is well look how many memes have you got that have been created he said
all he said um 30 40 and i said dude you're not a meme coin you're a shit coin i mean a meme coin
with no memes you can't it's not a meme coin he said well surely they're the same thing and
well no they're not they're completely different yes you both have no kind of um use if you
like no use case but a meme coin and a shit coin they're two completely different things
um and it actually took about half an hour this is the owner of the project it took me half an hour
to actually converse with him and at the end he went no no you are right yeah we're not a mean coin
but his whole concept was oh we're a mean coin i said but you only have a handful of means
surely you can't call yourself a meme coin with no memes um it's like saying well i'm a i produce cars
oh okay how fast they go oh they don't go we don't put engines in them well you've created a go-kart then
it's not a car um it's kind of exactly the same and i mean i'm seeing i think 2024 is um i think we're
going to see a a lot of uh change of mentalities and i'm even even down to coins that were huge and
have crashed i mean even if we take i was having this conversation with some people the other day
even if you take luna for example i'm already seeing since they split from um luna to luna classic and new
lunar or lunkers as people would call it um the the lack of understanding of what that um ecosystem
was the old lunar the lunk if you like i think that's very much gonna but when it's already playing
into like a dgen um coin and you're seeing people that are seeing the that look at the old price and go
150 dollars whoa we can buy this net or 110 dollars this will hit that at one stage no it won't
there's no chance lunk it can hit 110 again it's it's nigh on impossible as far as i'm aware um but i
think when we move into this bull run tokens like that um because of the perception and the lack of
understanding as to what it is i think you may see tokens like that go crazy because people believe
it can do what effectively it can't do does that make sense no it definitely does people mischaracterize
these projects all the time and that's why i love that we've had we've kind of been having this
clarifying uh discussion over the last the last 15 minutes about the difference in some of these
projects where there's a a ton of vc money that comes in to bolster the floor of the price uh bolster
the uh the the support line and then um these projects that are entirely community driven and
nobody's ever heard of that are telling themselves we're the next hugest you know biggest meme but
they're in an echo chamber and then these projects that have sort of the the genuine uh like the genuine
article the the some of the oldest memes that have just endured right so before there was a a broad
acceptance of dogecoin and a broad acceptance of nfts there were um there there were not not ordinals
but there were hashes um that were written into the bitcoin blockchain for a project called rare pepes
right so like you're saying there there are these different categories we can come up with some kind
of a taxonomy for crypto that where each of these has its own designation um and it's important to just
kind of acknowledge they're not all the same that's the biggest thing just they're just not all the
same and you have to evaluate them based on their own unique risks and their own unique merits so
definitely appreciate you bringing that up nathan and it does make sense the point that you're trying
to make i think but uh we've got let's see guys we we're popcorn style right now we're going to try to
close up in the next 15 maybe 20 minutes so let's let's come up with some um let's come up with some
questions that we haven't asked yet and maybe anything that you that you've been burning to
contribute on this topic of of just every side of the market being um being brought up having a net
uplift by the bitcoin spot etf yeah let us let us know what you're thinking there i'm reading some
articles right now about how there's some speculation that the decision uh will be deferred that that the
sec is is is backlogged because it's the beginning of the year somehow that that will affect
the the etf decision and i think that's just some of the news outlets in crypto sandbagging i think
that they're trying to just not come up with a solid guess right a solid estimate as to when the etf
will pass that's like half the job of of the news outlets in crypto i think is at least even if it's a
if it's a wrong guess it's coming up with some kind of a guess as to when the etf will will or won't
pass but gary uh what's your mind on the topic i have a question because i haven't been paying
attention really in the past week is this uh 13 or whatever etfs are any of them any different
really other than just basically the fee structure by the administrators i mean are they all basically
cash in cash out just some mandatory you know uh holding of btc as the underlying asset whether they
acquired it in the past or the otc to you know i think that part of the speculation of price is that
they think that they need to go buy off the marketing a spot off the market or something
but i don't think that's the case so like my question is is this are all of these that are
pending basically cash in cash redemption
yeah i i my understanding is that that that's exactly it and that's the distinction between a
futures etf and and a spot etf is is really just cash redemption um which is why i think there's
already been a race on the part of blackrock and grayscale to accumulate right and and my macro
thesis over the last year has been that the interference that we've seen specifically in
the bitcoin chart has been really um that it's not openly countenanced by these groups but that they're
involved in some of the price suppression so that they can continue to accumulate before the inevitable
run up and i think that we've uh we've even seen kind of a slow reuptake um if that makes sense um
but yeah i think that's the only the only major difference is that yeah so my other question is uh
of the people that you know the the flood that's you know being promoted of uh legacy people looking
oh finally you know i can put one percent of the portfolio into bitcoin via etf or something like that
like a fiduciary responsible person being able to pull the trigger uh is this because they were not
able to pull the trigger uh when grayscale was a major discount or you know willing to pay a premium
on grayscale like they couldn't the same fiduciary responsible trigger pullers couldn't do grayscale
is that is that true i'm not sure i'll have to defer to somebody else on the panel i don't
rightly know either but i want to welcome dill stage thanks sir for joining us uh but if anyone
has a an answer for for gary's question there by all means just um popcorn style just jump off mute go
oh snap maybe nobody else knows either gary yeah if they don't know if they don't know and again that's
part of the thing the speculative energy the animal spirits are you know are is this is this an
opportunity because people don't know and you know price discovery has to happen and it'll be
overestimated and they'll play the charts you know uh basically just like everything else um but yeah
that's part of my thing and then as far as like creating you want to call it alliance i see max kaiser
saying that this is a trojan horse i see other people that are kind of the super evangelistic uh of
one particular product of bitcoin um is there anything that basically wins favor you know by
the by the priests like do they win favor because it's spot and do they win favor because it's teaching
uh you know to to eventually off-ramp into your own custody and keep the narrative that this asset class
is different than anything else that's traded in legacy like it's different because you have
possession like that's the thing is are is there going to be an alliance or this is going to be
like a a you know it's continuing war that's a great question i couldn't answer on behalf of anybody
say a block stream or something i don't i don't really know what their internal charter is or what
their internal uh goals are these days but it does seem like the different implementations of lightning
network that they they were all being designed in preparation for for uh the passage of of um spot
etfs or you know or other instruments like this so they can suspend some of you know some of the
value off chain but still have it somewhat trackable i mean there's been a lot of development effort i
think in preparation laying a foundation for this i think that that's about as much ecumenical support as
you'll get from i think the uh the laser-eyed maxis and people who are trying to push these etfs
other than the fact that you got a lot of folks wearing laser eyes who realistically the only thing
they're interested in is a higher fiat denominated value of their current bags their current holdings
and they're willing to see they're willing to sacrifice the the goose that lays the golden eggs
in order to get it right in order to realize that that um that event um being able to realize
realize that profit so unfortunately yeah you got a massive uh shift yeah or a massive schism right in
even among the maximalists about what they do want to openly support and what they don't and i think
yeah by their fruits you'll know them right the people who are saying yeah man i can't wait till
this etf passes gonna it's gonna absolutely send bitcoin well a lot of them just a couple years ago when
their bags were down right when their pnl was negative that then they were talking about all the
cypherpunk you know essentially you know bitcoin manifesto rather bitcoin white paper as a
manifesto type safe cypherpunk language we are all satoshi and and this is freedom money and um but
now with the prospect of real world gains right some of them uh having a massive come up to come up right
by by a 5x or a 10x in their their bitcoin bags they're very tempted by that you know more more
tempted by that than by the permissionlessness of layer one bitcoin that is not being held custodially
so yeah gary that's a brilliant question but i think even among bitcoin maximalists
even even people at like at block at uh blockstream right you got adam back right the um the guy who
created hash cash and contributed to bitcoin core at its its earliest iteration he's talking about how
like oh no ordinals ordinals are normal and this is you know it's permissionless so we're gonna see
this ordinals are at odds with etfs too there's so much um the bitcoin maximalist community is very
fragmented right now very very fragmented right now sorry to reuse that that terrible filler word
but the bitcoin maximalist space you can't talk about it as though it's one single ideological block
it just isn't dr cap um what do you think about all this yeah i think it follows from what you've said
uh and i've got a question at the end of this as well um following from what you've said etfs
on a very superficial level don't sound very cyberpunk and they're not um and being completely
serious with you from a cyberpunk perspective i'm not interested in it but it goes back to like my
little soliloquy about absorbing liquidity into a harder form of money um these etfs will get promoted
and i think that the question i'm going to ask for you actually and this is like i don't know
are any of these etfs going to be fractional in nature so is it that you know you buy x amount
with the premium but then at that moment in time they may only hold a certain fraction of what they're
supposed to that that's a question that i would like to know the answer to if some of these etfs are
going to be like that and that is linked to what i'm about to say which is that if liquidity is if
it's non-fractional then you're going to see one-to-one transfer of liquidity and yes that will be
predominantly for speculative reasons and the initial thing is going to be look there'll be a lot of
advertising from blackrock and all the people pushing the etfs and saying these are great products
but going back to what i said you're not going to see every pension fund jump on this because the
reality is a lot of big firms are are essentially a lot managing very large numbers of assets which
they need to manage in a way that can be perceived as safe and i think bitcoin is still viewed as a
risky asset by a lot of major firms that's the reality of it and in particular this goes to pension
funds um so i wouldn't be expecting pension funds to dive onto this but i do expect a
lot of more firms that may still have very large sums of capital but be less risk averse to jump onto
this and i think when you see the initial and i think this will drive a speculative bump in the
price of btc because there'll be lots of money flowing in and i think where where i kind of come
in from as a cyberpunk i'm indifferent to that but i do see an upside which is you are going to see
liquidity going into bitcoin and at some point the question is going to be well what does this
do what was this meant to do and the majority of people are just going to be who will be putting
money into the etfs they're just looking for basic financial returns and credit to them they're using
the tools that they understand to do that that's fine i have no issue with that but there's going to
be a proportion of them that go okay this thing has now gone up and i think we'll still see the
inevitable up and then down and when it goes down when we get into the bear phase of whatever cycle
this is people are going to start questioning well we've got this asset what do we do with it
now the nice thing is that over the last eight years since i've been directly involved in crypto
we are seeing huge developments in the deck space you know as i said as you pointed out i'm an advisor to
basic swap decks which is the world's most anonymous and secure decentralized exchange but i'm also an
advisor to the particle project and we've built the world's most secure anonymous decentralized
marketplace for these goods what i'm trying to say to you is there are huge avenues for privacy focused
e-commerce privacy focused currency exchange privacy focused arbitrage you know the truly digitized
swiss banking for high net worth individuals i think there are a lot you know real real real world assets
tokenized you know i'm not a huge fan of nfts for art but i'm a massive fan of nfts if they could be used for
much to micro fractionate real estate so we can get you know all of this stuff has been building
the regulatory frameworks to tokenize real world assets you know the the technology to build
decentralized marketplaces the technology to have decentralized privacy focused forex swiss style
forex digital swiss style e-commerce that's you know digital swiss style real world asset management
digital you know all of that stuff's been built over the last years at eight years and it's continuing to
develop so i think whilst we may see a speculative bull run when we get to that bear by the time we
get to that bear all of this technology i've just mentioned it's already there and it's already quite
mature and it's probably going to be you know commercially ready for you know your average retail
user if i'm being honest the stuff that we're doing with particle and basic swap decks we're probably
going to have web front ends by the end of 2024 realistically and that's going to make it viable
for you know casual end users sorry i'm sorry i'm shilling my projects but i'm trying to say to you is
there's a lot of real world use case to draw the liquidity that's absorbed from fiat into this
currently speculative space it's still speculative and it has to stay speculative because it's in a
growth phase and it's in a growth phase because you can't supplant an existing system without
integrating yourself into it in some way but that's the reality it's a really cold hard reality
but you can't have a revolution without deeply understanding the system that you're fighting
against and in some way trying to work with and utilize the systems that are currently in place
to enable the transition from an old system into a new one so you need to utilize your existing
infrastructure to an extent so what i'm trying to say to you is even though you'll see that liquidity
boom in terms of speculative valuations when we hit the next bear we'll already be set up to have
the next ball run a lot more quickly and it will probably be in the provision of services rather
than speculative instruments so i think this is a net positive for the cypher pump movement
and i'll leave it at that yeah no amazing definitely love it love what you've laid out there
and uh like you're saying it um not to get too weird but uh but i see uh i see members of the
mice media dr liberty from the mice media group so i'll wax a tiny bit political here but it's like
the gaddafi problem right you can take you can take out the old guard but you can't always i mean
unless you like you said like unless you've studied all the influences all all of the uh all of the
mechanisms that their their current um that their current administration has in place then good
luck trying to replace them in fact good luck doing better right by by taking them out we always
love to talk about slashing and burning especially as libertarians we love to talk about slashing
and burning we don't love talking about all the necessary surveys to be able to replace what was
there before right so we don't we don't lose out or completely destabilize everything um that that
society has going for right now flawed or not um we have to come up with yeah a reasonable
replacement absolutely love that um that thesis dr cap dill welcome to the stage man what do you
think about all this we're just getting ready to wrap up in the next little while but you came in
to give us a capstone speech love it um what's on your mind yeah man well i'm i don't know if i'm
ready for the capstone speech but there's uh you know some smart people in here with a lot of great
thoughts but yeah i mean i think the if we're just the answer to the question above i think the simple
answer has got to be yes i think the spot etf is going to be big news for bitcoin big news for the
industry in general i don't know if we're gonna see the market sell the news i don't know if we're
gonna you know go straight up and see a giant green candle i don't know but what i do know is the long
term effect is going to be super positive and uh onboarding a lot of new people that are able to
invest into crypto assets and i like a lot of what's being said about you know the value of spot
traded etfs you know actually holding this asset could it possibly increase exposure for
the idea of crypto or the principles behind it maybe i think maybe you know i think a lot of
people that are gonna buy the spot etf probably and i think in many cases they'll prefer that
to holding crypto and having their custody in many cases i mean i think it's kind of a long road from
saying all right i might buy some of this bitcoin to actually understanding that you can custody this
and the reasons why you'd want to do that so i think that's an interesting topic to think about
um but hey i love meme coins cryptos shit coins so i think the simple answer to the question above is yes
we're gonna see the market go up it's gonna pump shit coins um but the other thing that i keep in mind
is could this be this kind of black swan event for bitcoin that pushes it to a million dollars and then
all the the bitcoin bros they're they're right they end up being right oh you should have just held
bitcoin you know bitcoin only uh that kind of stuff like part of me thinks there's a there's a chance for
that and of course that would also pump shit coins even more like in any case if bitcoin goes up it's going
to be positive for the whole market right uh but i do think there's this like small in my in my
opinion small percentage chance that bitcoin does do some kind of hyper bitcoin ization move
and uh if that happens or even if that energy kind of spreads i mean the the truth is when bitcoin goes on
a big run a lot of times the shit coins uh will get killed you know just temporarily until they have time
to catch up um so that's that's my thoughts right it's tough to time the market um but i think the
long-term effect is obviously going to be bitcoin a lot higher i think we're going higher 2024 right
we're going in the bull market so it's no coincidence on the timing you know people i i think these things
are a lot of times they're planned strategically uh along with the timing of the market so it certainly
seems like the right time that's my thoughts amazing so dill i'm gonna put you on the spot
here you're in the hot seat dill because you got here late but i love you all right so first what's
going to be the first coin to experience liquidity drain from the etf being passed like you said like
you rightly pointed out generally historically so far we don't have like you know we don't have
dozens of these cycles to to look back on but historically bitcoin grows in dominance
right as it experiences its season right attached to the having this etf seems like if it is passed
it's going to coincide with the having so with these dual forces drawing like like a massive you
know a massive force of nature drawing so much financial energy into bitcoin which coin do you think
among the shit coins or memes or whatever else which coin is going to experience the uh the the
deepest cut like where are we going to see the most blood in the streets followed by the most massive
godly green dildo you've ever seen in your life i know well no pressure i love seeing those green green
dildos my name is deal so anyway you know that's a tough question i think that i don't um that's an
interesting question because i don't see any coin as like bearish when if you know the spot etf goes
through and everything how that just yeah but but you don't you don't view you don't view the ocean
and the tide is as bearish when it happens to create a vacuum depression and then there's a
massive big ass wave right it goes tubular right so i mean when it comes to that i would just i i would
stick to the basics and just say all right the the shittier lower cap the coin the more likely it is
to get annihilated by a big bitcoin run at first right um but yeah it depends on the community right
like if you have a really strong community um that really believes in the project they're gonna hold
of course um you know if it's this is like an l2 that's built around all types of different defy and
stuff like that um i think a lot of the market runs on defy now and wrapped assets and all these
different things that help to balance uh multi-chain across chains uh within certain ecosystems right
but i would say just the basic rule of thumb is the bigger projects are probably going to hold up
a little bit better um but if bitcoin really does go on a big run and and gets that big green dildo
then i generally think it's going to be positive for all the other cryptos and the ones that will
you know probably lag behind i mean you know it'll take i would say it would take medium to long term
for some of the larger caps to pump uh what's fun about the shit coins and the meme coins is that
you might get a bitcoin pump and then you know a few days later you're going to start to see
shit coins and meme coins moving uh it's kind of up in the air whether you see something like ethereum
or solana or some of these other ones you know are they going to take a month or a few months to
really run um but what's fun is these shit coins meme coins people are always trading they're just
looking for something to go on a run so you know if if the bitcoin etf comes out of course you're
going to see uh you know ticker bitcoin etf or something i don't play that game i try to stay
away from the completely ticker based shit coins but they're popular people actually uh you know trade
that stuff so you know there's going to be all kinds of degenerate activity that goes on when the spot
etf is approved i'm sure but hey this is super bullish for the market i think it's something we can
all be happy about whether you're holding bitcoin only and you're a maxi whether you're holding a
portfolio of shit coins whether you're more of an eth maxi uh there's only good things that can come
from the spot etf in my opinion amazing love that and this is this side of the of today's show i think
we've probably used the word dildo more than any other 15 to 20 minute stretch and i mean yeah we're
talking a lot about green dildos uh your boy's name is dill though oh you didn't know it was at
bars yeah just saying straight bars jokes aside right yeah yeah yeah deals like yes yes mind your
business is known for this definitely known for his bars that's that's what he's known for hey before
we close up the the show though because we we do have you know deal on stage we do have a web three
performer i don't know i don't want to put you on the spot man i know you do a lot of a lot of live
performances but we're looking at closing these up actually let's do it let's do let's do last call
though deal before before we before we let you do kind of a closing set for the space let's do a last
call for comments questions anybody who wants to jump on stage we got some friends uh friendly faces in
the audience um but yeah this this topic it's going to be ongoing until we see the spot etf actually
approved socal what's on your mind i just wanted to say thank you for inviting me
and uh letting me talk about fairbricks and last chill if anybody wants to learn more about the
project you can find it on twitter at fairbricks it's uh f-a-i-r-b-r-i-x uh but i just want to say
thanks and and get that last chill in no man it's always a pleasure so glad that you're back you're active
in the space and that and that you're choosing stuff that is uh is interesting and that has
substance to it uh you know it does have strong fundamentals and but still plenty to build so
thanks for jumping back in man thanks for showing uh showing a lot of the new kids you know the the
up-and-comers uh one way right to uh to build value from scratch it's it's pretty inspiring what
you're what you're doing and it's a lot of fucking hard work so um so keep it up don't stop man
definitely appreciate you any other any other comments about today's topic before we jump into
a a musical treat from dill man brings all the all the good stuff right at the end anybody else
i just wanted to very briefly say thanks for having me on it was awesome to be here great space
great stuff from everybody all around really appreciate being part of it
and uh looking forward to hearing what dill has to contribute
okay i think with that then dill let's let's go ahead show them what you got man drop something on
on the people that maybe they haven't heard before oh oh yeah throwing your curveball oh
let's go well i want to say what's up to socal old friend of mine i just followed fairbricks good to
see you my friend um and with yeah man awesome so anyway i want to say this about a few days ago
like right before christmas i saw lil pump dancing to jordan belford on snapchat and instagram and i made
a video calling him out and trying to get him on a remix and he actually responded this video only got
like a hundred likes but lil pump saw it so lil pump might be getting on jordan belford and in honor
of that i'm just gonna play jordan belford man let's go let's go man if lil pump gets on this it would be
crazy crazy sheesh jordan belford jordan belford yo let's go jordan belford check it out i've been
getting dirty money jordan belford stacking penny stocks well i'm flipping these birds sipping on
belford jordan belford jordan belford jordan belford i've been getting dirty money jordan belford
stagging penny stocks while i'm flipping these birds jordan belford burberry shirt lv lopers on my sofa
in belir turning up daily because we can't turn down at work i've been lighting loud lately like my
boy used to some work and my cologne is the sake producer got me stoned i'm always hiring something
but i usually like to smoke we've been long time friends me and ben frank every fucking day needs
a ride home from the bank motherfucker y'all don't know me ain't in my tax section my holiday
padded in a dm straight section i'm gonna call your bitch back and she checking her reception
bitch is up and she's all up for my erection and i'm in the ovaries but i ain't about affection so
he's the leader so but me just smokes and never forgets sometimes this life seems a little
stressful especially when they tell me that i'm something special i've been getting dirty money
jordan belford let's go bull market vibes 2024 the full market is back baby
jordan belford jordan belford jordan belford i've been getting dirty money jordan belford
stacking penny stocks while i'm flipping these birds
let's go
shout out to mobi media mind your biz let's get it
let's go
amazing well hey huge shout out to mobi media make sure we've got the mic going here
huge shout out to mobi media huge shout out to dill gary crypto magazine dr cap so cal crypto big
piggy the uh and i think i wanted some ancillary shout outs want to uh quickly shout out the arthera
project so just really briefly something that that big piggy and his team are building crypto magazine of
course um going on for me article number 25 they're going on issue number 11 i think at this point going
to be uh so getting that prepped to go to market in 2024 big things coming from crypto magazine big
things coming from a lot of the networks that uh that gary woods is a part of and that dr cap is a
part of follow everybody up on stage if you're not already following them what are you doing they're
on stage for a reason they're speakers for a reason so if you're in the audience follow everybody
up on stage make sure that you uh check out to see who they are following as well right like do
the networking the the twitter networking game right check to see who they are following
i can almost guarantee you if they're following somebody probably a good idea to get those
mutuals going but thank you to to mobi media for creating the stage for creating the space
always a pleasure we do this every tuesday morning at 10 a.m eastern time or 3 p.m utc
where blocks media group where we are interim hosts usually jay crypto and myself jay had a bit of
an emergency come up today but we do this every single tuesday morning and we love having these
conversations huge thank you to all of our speakers again if you haven't retweeted the
room if you haven't made a comment you can still do that we're just closing up right now or if you're
listening back to the recording be sure that you have notifications turned on when you follow
mobi media they make some of the best spaces anywhere in this scene in the crypto scene but also
current events mobile media is a sort of global 360 degree macro channel i don't think that they
intend to give you financial advice but they will give you really great insights to make better
decisions so thank you again to everybody on stage thank you again to mobi media glenn this has been
a phenomenal space really appreciate you guys making the time for us and uh and yeah i think we're going
to close it up right there um but this has been just an absolute pleasure guys thanks so much for
for sharing with us and dill thanks so much for sharing that song guys this is this is uh you're
listening listening to royalty on stage right now um you're going to remember that some of these tracks from dill
10 years from now and be like oh my gosh yeah i was there i remember it i was there um and he
played it for us personally but yeah been another space uh up from blocks media group on the moving
media stage we do this every tuesday set it on your calendar put on notifications be sure that you're
always following but uh glenn i think we're gonna call it right there we're gonna wrap up the show
and a huge thank you again to the speakers huge thank you again to move media huge thank you to
you dear audience let's uh let's keep the dream alive let's keep on focusing on these these
conversations and making smarter choices regardless of whether etfs are passed all right glenn i think
we're just gonna we're gonna close it out right there thank you so much
