Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
with ICONists- Integrating xCall with IBC
Recorded: Oct. 9, 2023 Duration: 0:55:49Space Recording
Full Transcription
I just sent you a co-host invite.
It didn't seem to go through, but...
Let me try again.
Did you get it?
No, I've still got the old test one.
Let me quickly remove you and send you back.
No, it's okay.
I've got the option at least.
I can...
Oh, okay, brilliant.
Awesome, thank you.
We have CryptoChem as well.
Hi, CryptoChem.
Thank you for joining us today.
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Just wanted to make sure you all can hear me fine.
Perfect.
Cool, cool.
Just wanted to make sure it was coming through.
I've historically had some issues with spaces.
You know what?
I think we're all in the same boat, actually.
Spaces are always not as smooth as we'd love them to be, right?
Yeah, great platform for its purpose, but certainly some bugs that could be ironed out.
Yeah, I guess we'll give them, what, say, five minutes or else to just see who turns up.
Yeah, sure, I think I'm just putting up a post.
Yeah, sure, I think I'm just putting up a post.
Yes, just on the same as well.
We're just waiting on Eric and Fez.
Fez.
Fez.
Fez.
Fez.
Seuss.
Fez.
Fez.
Fez.
Fez.
Fez.
Well, in the meantime, until Fez and Eric join in, just to kind of recap about the space, we're talking about the latest developments with the IBC integration with Xcall.
So, pretty much good to go in terms of infrastructure.
We're now waiting on the first steps to join in, which is going to be balanced.
So, really exciting times to be an iconist.
And we have Fez joining in.
Let me quickly add him.
Fez?
Hi, Fez.
I'm here.
Hello.
All right, brilliant.
I think maybe we can wait maybe a major two till Eric joins in.
But yeah, Fez, excited about what we got in store in terms of the IBC integration?
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
The integration was the first step.
Now, the other things that follow will be exciting, actual use cases.
So, that will be good.
Yeah, we're looking forward to balance something on.
I think we need at least Eric for the start of it, at the very least.
So, maybe we'll all just ping him, see if he can jump on.
Which Eric are we trying to track down?
The tech lead in the icon.
Have you got an Eric as well, by any chance?
Yeah.
Yeah, I work quite closely with Eric, who's also working, I believe, with you guys at the icon, I should say.
So, I didn't know if there was someone on our end.
To be honest with you, more than happy for that, Eric, to join as well.
No problem.
Not sure if he's up right now.
Otherwise, I'm certain he'll be on.
I'll be sleeping.
What time is it for you, Max?
It is about 7 a.m.
Oh, damn, yeah.
Very early, okay.
It's not too early, but if you're on the West Coast, it might get there.
I think it's around 5 a.m. for them.
It's the usual, that's the only problem we have here, connecting globally is, you know, to so many different time zones.
It is what it is.
I'll tell you what, we, let's not leave it any longer to you, Rocha.
I feel like we can get started with some bits, some introductions, and just kind of make some headway on there, ask a few questions.
Yeah.
I'll take that as a yes, Rocha.
No problem.
All right, yeah.
Thanks, everybody, who's joining on the space.
And I can see there's more people that have just started joining, actually.
So it's good to see that we're probably going to get a few more people coming in.
As Rocha alluded to a little bit earlier, we're going to just be going through a few bits around Xcall, some bits that has happened, the integration with IBC.
We've got Max from Archway on the call as well, which is fantastic.
So we're going to hear a little bit more about Archway's integration and kind of the linking with Xcall that we have here.
And then maybe just a few other questions that the community has raised throughout the last few weeks since the last space that we've done.
So first and foremost, thanks to the host that we've got here.
So Max has already been speaking.
But again, for those that haven't seen him, we've got Max, which is also got an alias of Chem.
And you'll see him on top in space here.
We also have Fez, which will be on the Ion icon handle.
And we'll have Eric at some point as well.
And of course, we've always got Arosh.
And John just kind of sits there in the shadows within the listeners.
So I just wanted to first and foremost say congratulations to everybody who actually were winners of the Testnet challenge that we had with Xcall, because it seems like we had quite a lot of participation.
There were quite a few different entries that came through and, you know, kind of varied across loads of different types of areas that we wanted to focus on.
And so we've got things like actually just transactioning, really doing bulk load testing, making sure that we can stress test the network, making sure that it's all good bug reporting to make sure that we don't have any, you know, security frailties anywhere in there.
We have dApps, tooling, content, you name it.
There were so many in there and there were so many great entries as well.
So not only congratulations to all the winners, but congratulations to everybody that just took part, because I think it just helps for the whole piece, really, anyway.
And it's just great to see that so many people got involved with this, not only from Icon, but from other networks and other chains as well.
It's exactly what we need when it comes to interoperability.
Anyway, it's fantastic.
We haven't got Eric here yet, so I'll jump back to him a little bit later.
So maybe probably more Fez and Matt side of things here.
We'll jump into the actual integration, the IDC integration piece.
So I know that we have now integrated with IDC, which is like the first step, and that's absolutely amazing.
As part of some of the key components that we've got there, the community within Icon regularly hear the word BTP, which is, you know, our solution.
But in terms of BTP's role in this, is there something that you can expand on Fez in terms of what BTP is aside from IBC?
And almost the link is the BTP blocks part of it, relevant to BTP as well.
Just wanted to clarify that for the community first.
Yeah, cool.
So, no, like in the context of this, let's just remove BTP out of the picture.
Yeah.
BTP is a separate interoperable solution.
At the moment, it is not built to connect to any of Cosmos' chains.
At the moment, it's built is in Solidity.
So that's why we've got, you know, the BTP connected to Ethereum and Binance Smart Chain.
So that's one.
BTP blocks.
Okay.
So there's a story around this.
So if everyone remembers, the original, when BTP was ready a year and a half, was it maybe a year and a half, something like that, ago, and we were close to main net.
But on test net, one of the issues that came to light was the really high gas fees.
And so when the team went back to the drawing board on how they could resolve this issue, one of the resolutions they came up with.
And at that time, remember, the goal was always BTP was the core solution.
So was the main interoperable solution, I should say, that ICON was working towards.
And that was the only solution we were interested in.
So at this time, when they fixed the issue, the gas issue, which was basically creating, now this is where my technicalities break down, but essentially a way to store some of this information and make it cheaper.
So they actually made a change and release the component to the core blockchain, ICON's blockchain, that enabled a certain component of BTP to be further optimized and resolve a lot of these gas fees we were seeing.
And specifically, the gas fees were in relation to the light clients and the way the light clients were kept updated across the different chains.
At the same time, this resolution also resolved that issue of, you know, when BTP needed to connect to all these chains, we were hearing this, oh, they'll need to hard fork.
So part of this resolution was like, okay, BTP blocks results that need for all the chains initially that would have required a hard fork.
But the point of my tail here is, at the time, the core solution was BTP.
That's all we're focused on.
So naturally, when the solution was created, it got labeled BTP blocks.
So now come down to the present, you know, start of January 2023, there was a shift in the strategic direction, which everyone recalls, something we've been constantly drawing back to, where rather than just offering BTP, why don't we make ICON a hub of solutions offered?
Okay.
So in this case, we had BTP still being worked through, and we decided to look at IBC and how we could integrate IBC to ICON.
And, of course, you know, utilize, you know, utilize a messaging protocol that we all know as XCOL to its advantage.
And this is where the dual verification concept and those things started.
Those, not concepts, that kind of mission, narrative, story, whatever you want to call it, that's kind of what we were told.
And this is what we've been delivering to.
So BTP blocks.
IBC is very similar to BTP.
So one of the things we did with IBC, as I called that last space, was, you know, like IBC, in the Cosmosverse, the actual IBC implementations, it is built into the core blockchain, into the SDK.
Obviously, for ICON, that's not the case.
So we've actually rebuilt the IBC integration via smart contracts, so the like-minded smart contract and the core contracts.
And that's how we built it.
So when we did that, we decided to actually, in the design, utilize the BTP blocks component, which, you know, was something that was built for the Icon core blockchain to take advantage or make it easier for these like clients and stuff in relations to fees.
So we actually built that, used those components in our integration.
And that's, I have spoken for a while, but I'm hoping that really made sense.
We're listening.
We're listening.
That's good.
So in a way, yeah, it's just to almost separate it out for the community.
So like you said, BTP was definitely something we were focusing on.
But the idea behind BTP blocks is it is far more greater in its usability across different protocols.
Of course, we needed it to advance with IBC, you know, right?
So it's just something that we can build on and use in other areas too, which is fantastic.
It's just a solution to the issue.
And it was labeled BTP blocks.
We could call it, you know, I don't know.
Whatever you want.
Bob's blocks.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Call it FES blocks.
Hey, hey, hey.
You said it.
Let's do it.
Why not?
Rebranding.
No, that's great.
Yeah.
Thanks for giving the overview as well first, because I think it's always good just to clarify when you start hearing the same terms around, you know, a few people get confused and try and associate it with things that we might have known in the past, especially from the icon world of things.
Yeah, really good.
And in terms of like the IBC integration kind of brings me straight into kind of Archway's involvement as well.
And we're lucky enough to have we've got Max on here, also known as CryptoKyan.
And I think Orosh is also going to share a little post.
So please, please go and follow him as well and go and check out stuff he's been posting.
But just just to delve into this, Max, welcome to the space again.
Could you just tell us a little bit more about, you know, Archway's integration with IBC and kind of the process that surrounds it from your perspective?
Yeah, and I can't really dive too deep into the technical side of the integration.
But but obviously what we're trying to do is IBC is the kind of the core message kind of interoperability protocol of the Cosmos.
So all chains within the Cosmos SDK, at least most have it enabled so that you can essentially transfer trustlessly between different layer ones and app chains via IBC.
I mean, this opens up a lot of, I guess, different things about the Cosmos that make it unique.
It's kind of that what makes it so kind of flexible and interoperable is that you can use this IBC layer to basically message passage message pass.
And that can be used to do a lot of different things, whether it's just sending assets from one chain to another or even executing different functions on different chains via interchain accounts or other things like that.
And so IBC really opens up a lot. And what X calls interesting is because from the way I understand it is it's more of like a standard message or messaging kind of framework that allows all these different interoperable standards to kind of connect to one spot.
And to us, that was very, very intriguing because we want to be able to bring in developers from all different ecosystems.
We want to bring in liquidity from all different ecosystems. We want to be able to really use applications across multiple ecosystems.
And something like X call kind of allows that via this standard framework that everyone can kind of plug into, whether it's IBC, whether it's the wormhole bridge I know is on your guys's roadmap.
So it's just something that we've been talking about with your guys's team is something we've been very interested in pursuing.
So I'm at the beginning stages now that I think you guys are on test net and we're looking forward to kind of getting that cross the line to be on main net.
Timing is a little up in the air, but I know we're in direct really connection with your team to make sure that we can work on some sort of roadmap to get the X call standard really operable on our twin.
Yeah, that's great. I mean, actually what you're saying, by the way, at the high level side of it, rather than going too technical, I think it's perfect because a lot of the time we like to talk technical in some forums, but, you know, sometimes that gets lost.
So I think that what you said is really good.
And yeah, on the note of X call, they really have been pushing ahead with this.
And it's exactly as you say, almost trying to create that standard so that, you know, we're not just looking at one or two chains.
We try and keep it standard for almost all chains.
And hopefully in the future, that's exactly what we'll see.
Just a lot of kind of, you know, forget the native side of things, but actually just have a lot of different connections between all different chains working simultaneously, kind of like the banks of today.
Right. They don't, although you, you might have a bank in one country and another bank in another, and it's, it's usually seamless.
You might have to pay some fees, but we kind of want the same situation for the chain so that we all work together rather than, you know, just direct competition all the time.
And I think it's good.
Yeah.
In terms of like X call, what are some of the pain points that you have that you thought that X call could kind of fix in that particular perspective?
Encrypto, is that directed at max?
Oh, sorry.
No, that was at max.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Apologies.
My apologies.
I actually was talking on mute.
But I would say that the biggest thing is just avoiding the standard bridge risk, being able to utilize a contract or something like IBC where it's, it's trustless by nature.
So that you still rely on certain components to, to make sure that it's, that these transactions are valid, but you're not relying on a single point of failure or even a small group of people to decide whether or not a transaction actually occurred or if it was approved and on chain.
So I'd say being able to avoid having to use a bunch of different bridges and being able to have a hub is a huge advantage.
And it's really becomes an advantage once you start thinking about, you know, we've seen a ton of bridge hacks over the years and it really starts to, I guess, dwindle the amount of trust you have in these kind of third party bridges.
Um, so we're really looking for interoperable protocols that we can rely on to basically allow message passing and transferring, um, in a little more secure way.
Um, and we think you're going to eventually have to get to this idea of, um, I think you guys did a great way of explaining it, kind of like abstracting away that the components of the specific blockchain and really just having a place where you can transfer assets from one ecosystem or one chain to another, um, seamlessly without really having to think about, um, what chain you're on.
Or what bridge you need to use.
Um, I think X-Call is kind of the first step in that direction, kind of giving us that, um, omni kind of bridge or omni kind of connection for all chains to use as a host or as a hub.
Um, so that you can really have message passing and transfers across all different ecosystems, layer ones, applications, um, very seamlessly without really even thinking about it from the user perspective.
Yeah.
And I imagine the more and more it builds out and kind of more chains that start to get involved, you know, that's where the benefit's going to lie.
Even if there's going to be some direct benefits now, that's the benefit later, right?
So the more it expands, um, for, for you, Max, again, actually another one, um, in terms of, you know, this connection between let's say Icon and, and an archway here, where, where do you, where do you see the benefits between the two?
In terms of, I appreciate you've got the bridge, you've got the security, um, and almost the, the asset trading, but is there any other things that you're thinking of working on post this point?
Once we've kind of got to the point where we go, right, everything's live.
Have you got anything you're allowed to share?
I should probably ask.
I think the main thing that we're really trying to do, um, is, is to really kind of combine our ecosystem.
So the, the core, I guess, benefit of archways that we're really trying to focus on developers and making sure that they're basically being, um, they're basically earning from what they're, the value and the activity they're bringing on chain.
Um, and so what we're trying to do is really give them the opportunity to have as many users, um, as many, as much liquidity as they can get access to.
So part of that is expanding and making these, these different connections to different chains and different ecosystems, um, where it makes it easy for a user to bring their assets over and test out new applications or to, um, vice versa, utilize the Icon blockchain for, um, whatever purposes they may have.
So it's really just working together to try to expand and, and really make it much easier to access both the networks.
Um, if we have a network of developers and applications that can go cross chain, then we can launch those on Icon as well and give, um, that user base, you know, the, the same type of, um, applications you can use on Archway and really just give them an idea of what can be done on the Cosmos SDK.
Um, which, which offers a lot of different things via app chains as well as just what Archway is building, um, in their app layer.
So we see it just as a way to bring on new users, introduce them to, um, a new ecosystem.
And then also vice versa, it allows our users on Archway to come over to Icon and, and learn about what you guys have been working on, test out the applications that have been built, um, and tried and true on your, uh, layer one.
Um, as you guys have been around for much longer than Archway and obviously have a much more established community.
Um, and those are the type of users that we want to tap into the ones who have, you know, stuck around through multiple cycles, who are still active and engaging, um, with protocols like Icon, even well beyond, um, their initial launch.
So, uh, we just thought you guys had a strong network of users and we really got along with a lot of the, the contributors to the network.
So we figured there's, there's gotta be ways for us to work together, um, whether it's sharing liquidity, sharing, um, users, and just using both of those to help expand our, our reach within the ecosystem, or I guess our, the broader crypto ecosystem.
Um, yeah, yeah, I, yeah, I totally agree.
I totally agree.
Um, in terms of, I've got, I've got one more question that could be either Fez or you, Max, actually.
So I'll just let either of you kind of, it's more of an opinion based question than anything else.
So in terms of, and let's try to do it as high level as possible, just for the audience here, but in terms of the strengths that we have with the standardized, uh, arbitrary contract rules, where, where do you reckon?
What do you reckon the most benefit is when we talk about the type of things that you can do in blockchain?
So are we talking like decentralized finance?
What about non-punchable token side of things?
Or do you think it, where do you think the biggest benefit will be for these?
Let's say, if it could go to anyone, it's just opinions.
Yeah.
Curious.
Just quickly.
It's interesting because you guys are using a, a smart contract for this.
It actually becomes very interesting for Archway because anytime that then the, a connection or a message would be passed via Icon to Archway, via smart contract interaction, that would actually, that smart contract would actually earn Arch on the, on our blockchain because of how an incentive model is set up.
So, so it's a way for the actual protocol itself of Icon to earn from its, its cross-chain messaging.
Um, a lot of bridges take fees or have to do something to earn from the actual activity.
Uh, but with, with how Icon and Archway are, are basically interacting, um, Icon would earn from every single time that, that a user basically uses the X call function.
Um, I mean, that's a very interesting way of creating a public good, if you will, and then being able to earn actual, um, revenue from it as a protocol, basically as it's used, the more the actual protocol will earn from it.
But I guess outside of that, what I think will be really interesting would, would be for NFTs and DeFi both.
I think it helps a ton to kind of abstract out the actual, uh, blockchain, uh, many times with, with NFTs, people have to go to a specific blockchain to mint whatever specific collection they want.
Um, and then it requires them to basically hold it on that chain unless they're able to bridge it over, um, to another chain that, that also, um, hosts that, that type of token.
Um, so what would be cool is actually to have this type of cross chain messaging and interoperability where NFTs can be extracted from, from the actual specific L1 it's on and a user can really just utilize it and put it in their wallet and basically access it from one standard interface.
And I think that's where we'll start to see the real benefits of, of things like X call, where, like we said earlier, you, you abstract out the actual blockchain from the user.
Um, and it just becomes one experience where they can really access all these different chains.
And on the backend is where all of the, um, technical stuff is happening, which is kind of what you guys are building out with all your infrastructure.
Yeah.
I, and I just, it's so interesting when you think about it, like you say, even the way you're saying it, it just sounds so much better than what we have today.
You just, you have to go to different NFT marketplaces, or you might need to trade some currency before you can buy that particular mint.
And like you say, you, you almost kind of get in absolutely everything.
You can just go to one place and it can be DeFi.
It can be NFTs.
It can be anything you want really that you can do on the blockchain in reality.
So it's so positive.
I agree.
So Fez, you, you have any, have any extras to add on that?
If not, that's not a problem.
I think, uh, Max covered it really well.
I think so too.
Yeah.
Um, just looping back around to the, uh, to the testing phase that we were going through, just, just on this alone, based on what Max was saying.
Actually, we did have, we did have a bit of a use case that was tested out, um, which was between Kraft and the Neutron partnership that they've got going.
And I know there is an NFT project they were, they were looking to do on that side of it.
Um, I don't know if we've got Lucas in the crowd or not, actually.
Just, just check.
If we've got them around, it might even be a good one just to go to.
So, Rosh, have we got Lucas?
No, Lucas is not in.
He's not.
Paul and Robbie.
Paul and Robbie are on.
Well, yeah.
Paul also created, uh, some pretty cool tooling on here as well.
If, if you're open to talk about it, Paul, would you be willing to come up and share, share your insight on just how you thought it went and what you did?
I didn't want to put you on the spot.
It was more of an ask.
If you wanted to, you don't have to.
If, um, I'll take that off now.
If he wants to come up, you can come up later.
Yeah.
Fez, if you've got any, uh, if you've got any insights on, on the testing, just, uh, I've not been as close as it as you and Eric.
So, yeah, so, so I, I can't, I don't have much insights on the BTP incentivized testnet because I've been more focused, zeroed in on the IBC integration, but, but I can share a little bit of, uh, what we're seeing balance do with it.
So, uh, um, balance is very close to, um, testnet, uh, release with the archway integration, uh, and on max, I don't know if you, if you know this, but we're actually on main net now.
So we're actually live with our integration, uh, a couple of days back, we went live.
So, um, and that balances, hopefully a month, a month and a half away from main net as well.
So, so that, that, that, that'll be promising.
So one of the ways, uh, balance is using X call is, uh, it will launch on archway for the user.
It will be very, very much a native experience that, um, a lot of the, all the core contracts will sit on icon and, you know, messages will be passed back and forth.
So in an event of, um, minting BNUSD, you could use archway tokens, um, there, there is a slimmer version of the application sitting on archway where basically two contracts.
One is the BNUSD contract that allows it to mint BNUSD on archway.
And then there's a collateral contract and that's where it locks native assets on archway.
So a user say, uh, wants to mint BNUSD, which is a stable coin, um, via the archway wallet, they go, um, add archway tokens.
It locks those archway tokens in the collateral contract.
The message gets sent by X call, which is being secured by IBC, um, uh, through, you know, IBC's, uh, security gets received on icons and executes it, sends it back.
And the user has their BNUSD.
Now this is pretty cool in itself, but, uh, recently I actually got a bit of a look at, uh, how they're going to be doing their liquidity pools on, um, well, their AMM.
And, uh, this is kind of, I, you know, when I hear AMM, like the first thing that any chain, when they launch launches with an AMM off, obviously why wouldn't they?
Because it is, it is a very easy way to enable your token to get sold or bought or thing on chain.
And, and it, it generates revenue, um, and looking at the way balance has implemented this.
So using that collateral contract in, in terms of adding liquidity, um, the pools will sit to the end user.
It will look just like a normal liquidity pool, but, um, balance will utilize the, uh, source chain.
So in Archway's case, if we say, let's, um, you've got liquid finance on there that, uh, gives S Arch tokens, which is staked Archway tokens.
So you could pair, the user would take the S Archway tokens and pair it with, um, SICX, for example.
And, um, it would have the option of sitting natively on the Archway chain, the Archway tokens and create a copy, you know, like a tokenized version of SICX.
Um, but depending on what the user does, they can opt in to buy, um, when they sell, they can get SICX natively on icon if they choose or get the token, you know, the wrapped version of it on Archway to do what they want.
So, um, what balance is actually evolving into, uh, if, if I were to just, uh, finish this off in a sentence is kind of, you look at Stargate, Stargate launched as a seed liquidity pool for all these, um, stables, but natively on each chain.
And that was its kind of pitch.
Right.
And I've often called this out, like balance will be that showcase staff for, um, X call.
And one of the cool, cool ways it's being built is it's going to be this AMM, you're able to mint, uh, a stable coin, but the AMM will kind of operate in the way Stargate does where, so it's kind of a hybrid where, um, you'd be able to move between chains and native assets or get wrap assets on the respective chains.
And you could swap between assets as well.
So you don't have to just go, um, you know, arch to arch.
You can actually go from arch, as I said, to, to BNUSD on another chain, if balance has launched on that chain.
So, um, yeah, it's looking pretty cool.
And I'm very, uh, excited when it actually, uh, in a few weeks, hopefully, um, it, everyone gets to kind of test it out on test net to see how it functions.
Um, I like, I like the sound of that actually, but yeah, it's, that's kind of, you could almost say it's kind of revolutionary, really, because your traditional AMMs just wouldn't be able to do anything like that.
So, like you say, being like a flagship makes a lot of sense, especially with the capabilities that will come with it.
Um, yeah.
And one thing that's cool that I, I'd kind of mentioned earlier, and I know your audience probably isn't as familiar, um, with arch.
Um, but one of the unique things about archway is, is that, you know, we're trying to make sure that developers are being re remunerated for the activity they bring on chain.
And we do that through a few different ways.
One is through, um, gas rebates.
So every time you call a contract, um, the, the contract itself is going to earn from that interaction.
At least 50% of that gas will go back to the contract deployer.
Um, and where that becomes interesting is when you're hosting liquidity on like Astro Vault, which is the, the decks or AMM that, um, I kind of will be, I guess, or I guess balance will be kind of integrating with or hosting liquidity with or vice versa.
I think they both would be hosting liquidity, um, for ICX.
And then basically what that is, is both of these decks will be earning from every time an interaction happens, whether it's a swap, whether it's a mint, um, or whether it is, um, a trade, um, locking up your collateral, what have you.
Anytime a smart contract's being, um, executed on chain, on archway, there is a mount of rewards.
They're going to go back to those actual contract creators and those creators can do whatever they want with those rewards.
So that, that means they can now, um, you know, increase or boost the, the APRs on a liquidity pool to incentivize more liquidity.
Um, they can, they can really, you know, resend these rewards back to users or stakers.
There's a whole lot of things you can actually do with the rewards once they're earned.
Um, but it just adds another unique feature to archway that I think can benefit the users of icon.
Um, you can host your liquidity on these decks is, and as more people utilize them, not only are you using fees from the swaps, you're also earning fees from the actual smart contract use itself.
So, um, it's just creating more ways to earn from the actual interactions happening on chain.
And I think that's really unique in a cool, cool kind of way that archway and, and I can kind of team up.
Um, and it really showcased two things.
One, I'd say one is this cool, like use case for, for X call and just having this interoperability between apps,
but then also just how you can earn directly from building these types of tools.
Um, and that's, and that to me is one of the coolest parts of this whole partnership.
Yeah.
And I think it's, it's just going to be one of those things.
We've got really good relationship now between, uh, archway and icon, which is great, but the more and more we start talking about this and the more it expands.
We'll all be working together.
It won't just be us two, right?
So, um, I know there's lots of parties probably involved, but you've also been looking into and maybe potentially reaching out to, um, and same, same with our side as well to start bridging this out more.
Um, and I think the great news is next month, it's just kind of like, let's, let's get on with actually deploying, deploying some like things, which is pretty exciting to get to this space.
Um, and yeah, it's a shame.
I don't think we're going to, I don't think we're going to have, uh, Eric available to come on to give us a little bit more insight on some of those really good, um, entries that we had.
Um, as I say, and unfortunately we can't get all that bizarre.
I think we might be otherwise on the space, but just busy at the moment.
I know problem.
Um, just highlighting a few other things as well, um, in terms of, you know, what we can do.
On here, we had, uh, a few of the depths, which is like, uh, called X-core scanner and X-core tracker.
Um, these two pretty much is going to give you that holistic track of view, which is great.
You think about at the scan or BSC scan, whatever, whatever it is, um, having one United one where you don't always have to keep going to multiple different scanning sites.
Again, there's lots of different, lots of different kind of interfaces and depths that we can have here that I just think are going to be so beneficial for, for everybody that uses it.
Um, yeah, look, um, thanks so much for coming on, Max.
And, and same with you, Faze, as well, for making time to come on here.
Would have been nice if we, we could go, Eric.
But maybe next time we'll, we'll probably on the next space, maybe start talking a bit more about this again.
Um, and again, we'd probably love to have you back in the near future as well, Max, when we start building out more things and we start realizing those benefits that are going to come from this X-core service as well.
So, yeah, again, thank you from, sorry.
Well, one thing in crypto, like, um, Max, you know, if, if, um, just to all the listeners didn't, didn't know this, like one of the cool things, I know Max has said this very, uh, quite a few times.
So like, but like Liquid Finance is a great example.
Like if you compare, like the dApps we've had on Icon or just general dApps in general, okay, across various chains, like they launch, there's a token, it emits, that's how they, they get liquidity or whatever people to actually use their service, right?
And the, the, the protocol suffers the consequences, the cost, because it's, it's throwing inflation at users basically saying, come use me, utilize this dApp.
Um, and this, this, this is something with what Archway has, you know, with the contracts, uh, devs and stuff are able to put in these fees.
So Liquid Finance is a great example where, um, it's a, it takes Archway tokens, takes it similar to our SICX, what we're all used to in, in Icon land.
But the, the difference here is, um, part, part of the liquidity pool, there's no actual token that's emitted.
They're actually, um, the fees that are generated from using the protocol in terms of, um, Archway's unique tokenomics with the contract, with, um, emissions and things like that, go to the, um, to those pools.
So, um, it is a very cool way, like some of, some of the applications that, um, launch on Archway.
So balance, for example, balance will be able to tap into, um, you know, we've got a supply.
We know the inflation's down now because most of the supply has been, um, distributed, but, um, there's still a certain percentage that gets inflated a year.
And on top of it, utilizing some of these perks that Archway offers, it will be able to, um, direct incentives, these fees, users that generate and use the protocol and fees that are generated and inflation that goes to it will go to the protocol.
Um, and well, it could go to the Dow, the Dow may output to go to liquidity pools.
So, um, it is an exciting thing and we, we could see craft utilize things like this in the same way in the Archway ecosystem if they decide to push forward, um, and do those kinds of things as well.
Yeah.
So you, you could almost say that if it was just directing to the pool, you'd almost have an endless liquidity to an extent, if you like, because each time there's a fee that's spent, it goes back to the pool.
So you're almost just keeping itself, maintaining itself.
Yeah.
That's really, that's enough.
Max.
Yeah.
You're right in crypto and Max, have I done that justice or have I butchered it?
No, I thought, I thought you did a good job explaining that.
And yeah, it's just, it's just this idea that you're just earning from the smart contract executions and it just gives the, the owners of those contracts autonomy over how they want to repurpose those rewards.
I mean, everyone's got a different idea of what, what, you know, retains users, what brings in new users.
Um, and so they, they're really allowed to have the flexibility to build their own business model.
Um, like I said, whether that's reinvesting it into the pools, um, to provide a better APR, whether it's utilizing fees to mint more of the derivative to provide more liquidity, whether it's taking it to a protocol own treasury.
Um, so that your protocol can actually build up over time runway or ability to pay operational costs.
So it's really, it really just opens the doors to, to the options of, of whatever the owner of the contract wants to do.
And that's all we're really trying to do is give more flexibility and more kind of control over their earnings, um, as a, as a, you know, whether it's a team or an individual developer so that they can actually build sustainable products, um, and get past that kind of post grant phase, um, and then really sustain their own product.
Yeah.
Just creating that model for themselves that works best in, yeah, I think that sounds fantastic after it's really, it's quite impressive.
I like it because like I say, they almost can self-maintain in whichever way they need to.
It's great.
Yeah.
And those are also just to kind of finalize that is like, it's also governable.
Um, these contracts can be updated so you can, you can kind of be flexible even, or I guess be dynamic as you go.
So if at the beginning, it's really important to have high APRs to make, you know, enticing and incentivize users to come, um, use your product.
Then maybe you redirect awards early on to these user incentives, but maybe down the road, once you have a little more product market fit, um, you have a strong user base, maybe you start to redirect those rewards to your treasury to start building up.
Kind of that intrinsic value behind your protocol.
Um, it's really, again, just up to the actual contract creators and, and app owners, but, um, it just gives them that ability to be flexible and really, um, allocate the rewards and the earnings from, from their protocol or in what they brought on chain.
Um, and redistribute them wherever they feel necessary to, to move the business forward.
So, yeah, I think that's a big piece of what was missing.
Um, in this space is just flexibility and what you can even do.
Um, cause most apps are indirectly benefiting from the layer one they're built on.
Um, and Archway is trying to take a completely opposite of view and say, Hey, the layer one should indirectly benefit from the application layer.
Cause the application layer is where all the value is coming into the ecosystem, whether that's TVL, on-chain activity or, or users.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's just giving that extra option for the long-term instead of, like you say, a lot of, a lot of businesses find that struggle.
Don't know they put in their initial model and then it's almost unchangeable at a certain point.
And this just gives that flexibility and long-term ability so they can sustain the, sustain their business.
Yeah.
It's really good.
It's, yeah, that'd be dynamic in business.
Uh, the environment changes quickly and, and so you have to be able to adapt.
Yeah.
Um, Bez, do you, do you have any points you want to add?
I was thinking about going to see if there are any questions from, from anybody on the space, actually, who wanted to come up and speak and ask a question.
We're more than welcome to put comments in, um, or if you have any other comments, Bez, or Max, for that matter, you can feel free to add.
Uh, no, I'm, I'm good to, uh, for questions.
I was, um, I was going to just round off one little thing.
So recently, you know, we, uh, we, we published the board, the new board with lists of milestones and things we're working to, towards.
And, uh, one, one thing that was noted in the recent dev update was the central relay.
And, you know, we've talked about IBC, X call, the, the reason though, as Max actually, um, called this out really well, the idea is to have the centralized, you know, not centralized, this, this, um, messaging, um, standard that is consistent.
So ignore the centralized word.
So, so you got X call, it's over IBC, but, but at the, at the end of the day, when it comes to interoperability, there is always skepticism, right?
There could be hacks.
Like it is riskier to trust, um, uh, multiple chains in terms of security and then be reliant on a, on a security standard, a security protocol that, you know, is, is, uh, what's tying everything together.
And this is kind of why X call exists.
So we create this, um, standardized way of utilizing messages across any standard and that initially we've only got IBC connected to Archway with the goal of getting more.
So we've got a few other pieces in the work once, once we integrate wormhole and, and layer zero and things like that.
Um, the second we integrate them, if we've got an X call contract on that chain, we can start utilizing, utilizing those security, um, interoperable protocols for their security, um, in the interim as well, what we're doing is we're building this central relay.
Now this is central and, and, and the, and the goal around this relay is kind of to give applications like balanced or anyone else building to go, yep, I got, we got IBC, um, we're connected to this chain by IBC.
IBC balanced is a financial, let's say institution, you know, it's a financial protocol.
Um, they want to make sure that they, they're not hacked and yes, IBC is up there.
Nothing's touched it.
It's incredibly secure, but they want additional security.
Can't be too safe.
And this is where, um, X call aids and the central relay comes into it because the central relay is something the protocol themselves can deploy and whitelist.
And, and, and, you know, there's only these contracts and interact with it in these ways and balance can input a bunch of security measures, which also means that say, if a user's minting over $500 worth of BNUSD, then, um, the protocol will have a security check in it that it wants the message is sent by X call.
So, um, um, the protocol over IBC and utilizing the central relay.
Um, now that central relay can be replaced with any other interoperable protocol.
I'm just using that for context.
And this is one of the reasons why we're building the relay is to give the application additional benefits of controlling their own security as well and putting some checkpoints in there to protect customers, to protect their users, to protect themselves as well.
So, yeah.
So basically just adding another layer of security or as much as or as less as you want.
Yeah.
Flexibility again, right?
Yeah.
It's just, yeah.
Exactly.
And, you know, like the point, the finishing off there is because your message is already done, right?
You've already built the way you want your message to be sent and executed.
In X call.
So you're not redoing this over a central relay or anything, or when you use wormhole, once it's integrated or layer zero, it's just there.
It's just use the same message, pick these two protocols and make sure that when it goes from icon to archway, at the end of it, both protocols have passed the same message and reached, you know, the other side of the chain, the same exact thing to execute.
Otherwise, well, no, we have an issue.
Don't do it.
Yeah.
Don't do it.
No, exactly.
Yeah.
All right.
Fantastic.
Thanks, Alphaz.
I'm not sure.
I don't think we had anybody who put their hands up, actually.
Does anybody in the crowd have any questions?
Please request to speak if you'd like to.
I didn't see anyone, Arush.
Did you see anyone?
Is there any comments at all?
Questions?
I was just eagle-eyed watching, but yeah, so far, no.
That's not a problem.
I mean, look, our discords are open, right?
So at the end of the day, if anybody needs to contact us, wants to ask any further questions, we're always here.
It's not like we're going away.
This is actively being worked on every single day of every minute, probably, as well.
And so, yeah, we can ask these questions at another time if anyone thinks of anything post this space.
So I think I'll just tie it up there.
Again, thanks, Fez, for coming on, and Max as well.
Absolutely brilliant, brilliant responses.
We hope to have you on again in the future at some point when we see all the fruition that comes from it.
And, yeah, and I hope everyone has a great day.
Thanks very much for coming on.
Yeah, I appreciate you having me on.
And again, like you mentioned, if anyone has any questions about Artsway or any questions about how we're going to be trying to work with Xcall to incorporate IBC, feel free to reach out.
You can DM me, you can find me on Telegram with the same handle, Discord, anywhere you want.
I'm happy to answer your questions.
That's what I'm here for.
So I appreciate you guys having me on and definitely looking forward to joining you guys again sometime.
Thanks, Will.
Thanks, everyone.
Thanks, Max, for joining.
Thanks, Max.
