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WOLF MONDAY NIGHT SPACES
Recorded: April 28, 2025 Duration: 1:56:27Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, panelists explored significant partnerships and fundraising efforts in the crypto space, alongside a notable 15% rally in the S&P 500, signaling a positive growth trend. The conversation also highlighted the importance of yield generation through tokenized assets and consumer staples, reflecting emerging investment strategies in the current market landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. You Hey, am I supposed to hear something now?
I don't hear anything.
Yes, you are now because I just unmuted here for Stock Picks of the Week.
It is Monday.
It is 5 p.m. Eastern, and that means it is time for Stock Picks for the Week,
working on getting all of our panelists up here.
Just bump the group and we'll see what is on everyone's mind.
This last week, obviously, last Monday when we had the show, we were down in the depths a little bit.
And boy, since then, things have picked back up.
We have a lot of green on this sheet that I see in front of my face right now
yeah some really good picks some 20 plus percent winners a bunch of four or five
six seven eleven fourteen percent winners here some really good averages
from our panel last week several of which beat the market even though the
the market itself
was up pretty nicely since last Monday.
And we'll talk all about it.
Let me get everyone up here.
What's up, Gav?
We got you in here early today, too.
I like your mic's muffled, brother.
Yeah, a little muffled there.
No worries.
No worries.
Well, let's go ahead and kick into it a little bit.
I'll work on getting some of the rest of the panel in here, but we've got a solid crew to start with here.
Ben, I heard from you this afternoon, as I always get to.
I always have the pleasure on the Small Cap Show.
But for our audience here tonight, we'd love to get your market sentiment thoughts, what you're seeing out there.
And, yeah, kick us off uh kick us off ben uh you have one of the best picks from last week um you and jordan were neck and neck there until the final day thanks and and i gotta say big kudos
to jordan and andrew here they really called it to be honest. My picks did well, like the small caps and stuff,
but you guys both called a reversion to the mean on the indices.
And particularly impressive how Andrew did that,
looking at the TLT heading back towards the lows
and is like, they're going to come in and save that.
Pretty impressive foresight by both of you guys calling that for a verse.
So I didn't expect it, at least not then.
So great timing on that.
So, you know, from what I see here, to me, that's what it looks like.
It just looks like a reversion to the mean here on SPY QQQ.
I think we may have a little bit more room to the 50 DMA, maybe an outside shot at the 200 DMA, I guess.
more room to the 50 DMA, maybe an outside shot at the 200 DMA.
I guess, you know, we have some economic data, GDP and PC inflation Wednesday morning.
Then we have all the big cap tech stocks Wednesday afternoon, Thursday afternoon.
Is that going to be the catalyst to get to that 200 DMA?
I'm not sure.
But I think the high target is going to be the 200 DMA.
Maybe it fakes us out and breaks a little bit over like it did in March,
but I think that's about it, folks.
I don't know.
I think this is like just a mean reversion thing.
We're going to head back down.
That's my guess on that,
which is going to make stock picking a little bit difficult for me.
I'm still not sure we're going to pick because we could be in for,
you know,
a couple of good days and then a pullback at the end of the week and who knows, maybe back down into next week.
That's kind of what I'm thinking right now.
So that's my thoughts on the macro.
I think we're getting closer to the risk-reward not being as good up here. It looks like we're trading. I think we're going to be trading
in a very volatile range over the next few months
until everything plays out.
And I've got to make a bet that the top of that range
is the 200 DMA on SPIQQQ.
So that's where I'm holding right now.
Beautiful.
Appreciate you kicking us off, Ben. And I do want to visit the year-long picks we
haven't visited those in a little while so i want to visit those today and uh we'll take a look at
those ben i know you're absolutely killing it over there but let's continue around a little bit more
with some market sentiment and uh let's go over to andrew andrew you had a little shout out there
you had a very nice pick and uh excited to hear your thoughts around the market in general.
And if you want to touch on that pick, I would love to hear that as well.
Yeah, sure. What's going on, everyone? Yeah, thanks for having me up.
In terms of what's happening in the market, if we look at the dashboard that I shared in the nest,
yeah, today we can see gold outperformed, Bitcoin outperformed.
So some of these equity alternatives.
Then within equities, international actually outperformed domestic.
And then within the U.S. specifically, we had long-term treasuries, the TLT, outperformed
all of those equity indices.
And then within the sectors, we had biotech outperforming and gold miners outperforming.
I'm seeing things in a pretty similar way to Ben. I would say right now my conviction level in the
market is pretty low. Over the last three weeks, the S&P 500 rallied about 15%. So if you think
about what's happened so far this year, we got a raging bearish sequence
where the market dropped, let's say like 15% in a straight line. Then we had the exact opposite.
Or once we found out that, hey, maybe Trump is going to back down from some of these more extreme
policies, that really was just like a sigh of relief for the market. And then we got that 15%
snapback. What I'm trying to make sure of for my own trading is I'm not expecting that over the
next three weeks, we're going to have another 15% rally in the indices. I think the easy money off
the lows has already been made. And I think from here on out, we go into more of a
slugfest environment. So assuming we don't get any new updates on the trade war, I would imagine
that the higher we go in the indices, the more that's going to invite some sellers to come in
and potentially take profits or even take losses on their positions, then I would imagine, barring any new news on the tape,
the lower we go and if we get dips, perhaps those will be the good opportunities to actually add exposure.
I was looking a little bit earlier, and it's very tough for the market to have a really good rally
when the semiconductors are not leading.
And as I look at the market environment,
I see NVIDIA may take a hit because of these policies surrounding sending chips to China.
And then if you look at companies like Apple,
they could have a slight impairment.
A lot of these MAG7, Elite 8 stocks,
they could really just have a little bit
where they sort of underperform and
don't really make new highs. So I think that just creates a really tough environment for the indices.
So in terms of the market, I'm continuing with my TLT pick from last week. I think a lot of
investors, they were kind of dumping their treasuries because they were concerned, you know,
with all the, you know, essentially like the instability going on.
They were selling their treasuries.
And I think some of that is disappearing.
I also think that there could be some investors that start to look ahead to these tariffs and they might go, hey, you know, there could be a recession.
Those little fears start to creep in and that could lead to the long term bond yields rallying.
So at this point,
I feel a little bit more comfortable with the TLT than a lot of other things.
So I'm just going to repeat that for my first pick for this week. I'm going to go with the TLT again.
And then in terms of what I'm looking at for individual stocks,
I think that's going to be the name of the game. I think the crash phase of the market is over.
So I think it's just going to come down to earnings.
And if there's companies that aren't really impacted by tariffs or trade,
and they're more insulated, you know, perhaps those do a little bit better.
So in light of that for this week, for my second pick,
I'm going to go with Domino's Pizza.
The ticker symbol is DPZ.
And there's nothing too special about this company.
It's essentially a consumer staples stock. But I think that might be what people are interested in
at this point. Just a little bit of a flight to safety. They can hang out in some safe stocks
while they wait for more clarity. So yeah, those are going to be my two picks for this week. I'm
going to go with the TLT, run that one back, and then go with Domino's Pizza, DPZ.
Andrew, let me ask you a question on that.
So with Domino's and some of these names that are doing well,
holding up very nicely, maybe they're more,
I don't know if you want to call them a safety name or not,
but it does seem like we're kind of in this weird spot where obviously some of these value safety names have outperformed.
And I'm wondering, do people stay in those names or do they start shifting out of those back into tech if the market picks back up?
Which I'm not saying that happens in the next few days, but that's kind of where my mind is at right now.
I'm juggling that in my head so
do you think that people are gonna maybe stay in these safety plays for a little bit longer
yeah that's a great question and I believe they're going to and the whole reason why is just because
like at this point in time there's no reason to snap everything back like some of these uh
these things that have changed on the trade front they're not just going to undo themselves overnight and especially to like if nvidia
starts just slowing down a little bit on their growth then suddenly like we don't have that
you know raging qqq because the semiconductors are lifting everything we just don't have that
and especially with a lot of the AI software and applications,
we're not really seeing any of those companies just emerge
and super efficient, going to be game changers for GDP.
So I just think we have this period of uncertainty.
And until we get trade deals across the board,
everything is laid out perfectly,
I definitely think there's going to be some demand
for some of those safe haven stocks. That's just my view. I was having a similar conversation
earlier today around Coca-Cola. I think part of it had to do with the health consciousness,
the red dyes and all the stuff around some of these names but uh we we talked about uh some of these similar names like like a domino's that um it maybe it's
not the most exciting or sexy name out there but as far as a risk or reward it seems like a much
safer play and it seems like it'd have more upside we're not too far off the highs as i'm looking at
the chart here on the Daily Domino's Pizza.
And I believe Warren Buffett still owns that one as well.
Of course, 13FC is then coming up here in a few weeks.
So we'll find out if he's still holding it or if he's selling it or what old Buffett and Berkshire are doing with that one.
And then you said your other pick was TLT, correct?
Yep.
Yeah, TLT.
Similar thing.
Just investors perhaps.
They're like, hey, I don't really know what to do with my money now i'm gonna buy some bonds you know that's really the main thesis there
what are your thoughts around the uh the bond market in general right now i mean obviously we
saw uh those rates flying up to the upside you know in the 30 year and the 10 year. And almost a lot of people attribute the timing
of Trump's 90 day pause to the bond market. Do you think maybe the bond market is the safe play
right now in general? Is that kind of, am I following your thoughts there of like, hey,
because, and just to take that a step further, maybe because we saw that reaction of when rates
really were
going wild, that, okay, all of a sudden it was a little bit of a pivot out of the administration.
Do you think that draws maybe more people into these long bonds?
Yeah, there's a floor in long bonds. And we discovered what that floor was a few weeks ago.
So yeah, on the TLT, it corresponds to about 86 on the chart. So the closer we are to 86,
you essentially know that the Trump administration has your back. So for me, it's like that's just
an easy layup. The closer we get to that level, the more attractive the bonds are, the further
away we get from that level, then the less attractive the bonds are. So that's just kind
of how I'm playing it. I think with all of these assets,
they're kind of range bound.
So I think it's going to be tough for trend following
where like if bonds just like rip to the upside now,
it's going to be tough to chase it.
I think it's kind of the same for stocks.
So yeah, they were kind of in like this volatile,
range bound environment for now.
So just trying not to get destroyed out there.
I like it. I like that line of thinking. And since we do have a lighter crowd on here,
I am taking a moment to, you know, get a little bit deeper thoughts than sometimes. Sometimes
we don't get to really hear the full thesis and thoughts behind. So enjoying being able to dive
a little bit deeper into all this so real pristine capital
mr andrew long tlt long dpz so long bonds and long domino's pizza which i could go for a domino's
pizza right now honestly that would sound pretty good jordan let me go over to you next and uh
get some of your market sentiment thoughts and what what's been going on in your world as you trade this market
oh boy yeah so it was a great monday i'm happy i made some money this monday because i'm kind
of traveling all week and i probably won't be able to trade too much but i do have some thoughts
on where this market's going now last week we kind of nailed it. We did good. I will be honest, though.
On Spaces, I had no confirmation of it until Tuesday's trading.
Tuesday's trading is really what told me, like, okay, this can really start getting going.
And then we saw Wednesday and Thursday and just then so on.
It was a great week for the market, right?
And it definitely hit some targets that I was looking for.
That Wednesday high from April 9th, we hit that.
So beautiful moves there. I still have some resting highs above that I would like to see get taken out on NQ. I
have one big spot on the daily sitting at 20,000, 44, 25, and then another spot at 20,000, 536, 75.
And if you're wondering what these spots are, these are the spots where we had those Wednesday
high of weeks that I've talked about previously, where kind of Monday, Tuesday, manipulate to the upside. Wednesday is
the high of the week and we just sell off the rest of the week. I would like to see those highs
again. Now, the problem is we ripped pretty good last week, right? So hard to expect us to just go
straight to those highs this week, in my opinion. I would like to see a 50% retracement of last week's
trading. And that's kind of something you can expect based off of what we saw last week.
I mean, the profile that it's actually called is classic expansion, right? Which is basically just
means Monday puts in the lower high of the week and we basically just go straight in a direction,
right? Well, a lot of the time, it's not always going to happen, but a lot of the time we can expect the following week to get a 50% retracement of
kind of that entire range, right? And if you mark a 50% fib from Monday low to Friday high,
it kind of lines up with that gap we have on the daily. I don't know if we can get a full gap fill.
if we get a full gap fill. I don't necessarily think we need to, but I would love to see a
I don't necessarily think we need to, but I would love to see a rebalance to the,
rebalance. So it's 18,644.50 on the charts. So seems a little low, especially given the big
moves we just had. And I'm kind of, I have a few spots in between. Like we have this imbalance on
the daily we made on the way up that I'm watching starts at 216.25 to 165 here in the 19,000s on
NQ. If we're respecting that, I really don't see a reason for
us to go to the 50% retracement. But this market can do whatever it wants, right? And this is just
like a thesis. And as of now, it's starting to play out. But honestly, this bounce at the end
of the day kind of is a little bit invalidating my thoughts on getting that 50% retracement. We saw a lot of
strength at the end of the day today. Now, whether that's FUD into tomorrow and we sell off, I have
no idea, right? That's where I need more, I need more structure, I need more data to go off of to
really be confident. And that's why like last week, it wasn't until Tuesday that I was like, okay.
I was like really confident then. On Monday, I was like, you know what? Like I'm going long,
it feels good. But I didn't know for sure until that Tuesday trading came around. Right. So kind of similar
here. I just want to see more days of the week pass us by, which is which is great. I won't be
trading a lot. And I think it's kind of a good thing. We got a ton of earnings. We have a ton
of red folder data that's going to be wild. I mean, unemployment claims, NFP data, unemployment rates, we got GDP,
just everything, all of the above is coming along this week with earnings. So it's going to be a lot
and I'm kind of happy to be sitting out majority of it and have a good week or I mean, and have a
good start to the week on Monday here. But we're going to analyze things and see if I'm right on my thoughts.
Regardless, I'm going to be wrong if we're, let's see, I mean, I'm wrong if we're flushing through
that 50% retracement. Let's put it that way. We're really bearish if we're doing that and
I'm wrong on my thoughts. But otherwise, I would like to see those targets that I mentioned,
20,000, 44, 25, and then 20,000, 536, 75.
I don't know exactly what those are on SPY.
I can just get them real quick.
That'll be like 567.30 and 576.30 area.
Basically, just those previous Wednesday highs, right?
So, that's what I'm looking for.
We'll see if we get it.
No matter what, I'm just going to show up and, you know, try and play whatever the market's given me intraday on futures. But having the higher timeframe thesis definitely helps me be more
confident with holding trades. Like even today, I mean, I held that trade as long as I possibly
could. I almost got a full 200 points out of it. I had a point where I was at 200 points, but
I let it kind of confirm the stop out for me. So I got stopped out a little higher, but
like something like that, I think just capitalizing on those higher timeframe trades is really what
I'm trying to do. So always having that kind of weekly bias on my side, trying to at least,
right, trying to identify things correctly. And that's really all last week was for me,
it was identifying kind of the manipulation of that weekly candle, because every candle that opens in the market, whether it's on a one minute or a weekly, it, you know, a bullish candle opens up, moves lower, moves way higher and then closes.
Right. It's a bullish candle and a bearish candles vice versa.
So if on a weekly, I can just understand and identify where the manipulation was and understand where this market's drawing towards, we can absolutely bank it, right? And just let the higher timeframe tell us what we need to know
and have supporting, you know, entry models on the lower timeframe. So that's really my thoughts.
That's what I'm doing. I hope that makes sense. And we'll see if we, we'll see if we hit these
spots this week, but I don't know. This market's crazy. So don't count on me two weeks in a row, but we'll see if I'm right.
Well, I mean, if you can return 23.8% every once in a while, right?
Like that will outdo a lot of other weeks. Great job.
You had TQQQ long was your pick last week and you doubled down on that.
And that was
the number one returning pick.
And since you doubled down, obviously, your average was very, very good on that 23.84%
return versus the market itself.
QQQ this last week up 7.65 and SPY 5.9.
Now, that's for the time period that we do this show until the next Monday, right?
So from Tuesday open until the next Monday is where this runs from each and every week.
And Jordan, yeah, TQQQ.
What was, take me through, and we'll go over to Chris next, but take me through when you
were looking at this at the low last week and you, with conviction, if I remember correctly,
with conviction, were calling out, and I know you explained it a little bit just there, but what was the thought process there of, hey, TQQQ, I'm going to double down and
go leverage long on tech?
Well, so on Monday, my thought process, this is where I was predicting a little bit just
for the competition because, you know, forced to due to timing. Tuesday is when I was like really confident, right? I got
what I needed to see. But on Monday, I mean, I saw a lot of what I needed to see, which was,
if you look at that previous week, we had that, what is it? April 10th. It's that Thursday.
We had that low that we made. And if you go down to a four hour, you can see that low much clearer, which is sitting
in that giant four hour candle that we moved up when Trump spoke.
And we just absolutely ripped, right?
It was like the first time the market saw any ripping price action since all the tariffs.
And so we create a massive imbalance there and we had a huge low in there.
Well, that's always a draw for me.
That's always where I think the market's going to draw towards next is that that wick low, especially on a higher timeframe in that imbalance,
I definitely think we need to revisit there. So I was already thinking, okay, we need to go to that
low. And then but I was expecting a sweep of price action, I didn't want to see us just dump below
that low, which we kind of did for a little bit. If you're on a lower timeframe, if you're not just
looking at a four hour daily, like intraday, we went well below that level, but sometimes sweeps aren't necessarily super clean.
It doesn't have to be a clean wick every time. It's just price needs to break it and reclaim it.
Right. And that's exactly what we saw. We went broke that low, reclaimed it. After that,
we got a complete shift in the structure on, basically every time frame lower than a four hour.
And and that was what really kind of told me, because especially end of the day on Monday, that Monday, we we kind of got bought up pretty good.
And so I was looking at that and I wasn't sure about it, but I'm like, you know, why are the bulls stepping in so hard here for not going to go higher?
That was just my thesis. Right. It's like, OK, if I'm really, really bearish here and we're going back to the lows from April 8th and April 7th,
6th, whatever, that's fine. But if I'm extremely bearish here and that's going to happen, we
shouldn't be absolutely violating all this higher timeframe bearish order flow and reclaiming this
low. That should not be happening. It's just as simple as that. I know what a bearish setups look like. This looks like. And like we were looking very good for
the downside. And then we just reclaim price action at the end of the day. That should not
have been happening. And so that was the little bit of tell for me. And then Tuesday, I mean,
we basically gapped up into Tuesday. And then we had all that data from Edgeful to shout out Edgeful.
We had all that data telling us that it was not probable to fill that gap, even though a lot of people were thinking,
including myself, I was kind of open to it. And we just dropped right in there, again,
swept liquidity there and just went higher from there into Thursday and Friday. And so
obviously Tuesday was kind of the confirmation of that for me, really breaking all these key levels and just having that bullish structure, right, retesting that gap. It made me a
lot more confident. But that was really the thought process. Monday did tell me a lot,
right? Just sweeping that price action and bumping down to the four hour on the daily.
It's a little harder to see. So if you're looking at the charts with me, four hours is going to be
the cleanest if you're looking at NQ, but I'm sure you can find a similar setup on QQQ and Spy. But yeah, that was the thought process.
I thought, you hear me say it in spaces all the time, Amp. I'm like, oh, that's fake. Yeah,
that's what I thought Monday was. I was like, this is fake. And look at the weekly candle
from last week, right? How did these wicks come about? Well, we have to trade down there in the
first place, right? And that's what Monday was. It was complete price manipulation to turn that weekly candle green. And, you know,
I was right this time. I'm not going to be right every time, of course. But when you can identify
that, it's not about being right or wrong. You'll hear me say this all the time. It's about, hey,
when you're wrong, keep those losses small. You're wrong. It's okay. It's fine. Everybody's wrong.
And when you're right, I mean, look at the amount of price action you can capitalize on when you are right.
And I'm not I didn't capitalize on this whole candle. I'm not saying that at all.
Maybe one of these days I'll get really good enough to be able to trade these weekly candles like I do the four hour ones.
Right. But just having that bias on your side on the higher time frame and knowing like having such confidence.
Right. And what you're trading and what you're seeing, it helps with those shorter timeframe
trades on futures.
So definitely, definitely recommend that price alignment, you know, or timeframe alignment,
you know, but, um, but yeah, that's the thought process.
Sorry.
I'm rambling.
No, that was beautiful.
And, uh, I definitely wanted to give you a chance to, to talk through that a little
bit.
And, and I do get the point, you know, based on the timing of the competition, you know, some of it is a little bit predictive at times,
some of it is a little bit, you know, of a riskier thing, because it's it's week to week instead of
day to day, or however you you may be trade individually. But, you know, once once you set
up the thesis, and you get the confirmation, I think that was the the important piece to take
away from that is you, you set up your thesis,
you went ahead and made the pick, obviously, but the next day, Tuesday, you got the confirmation
you were looking for. And it's the same thing I'm doing this week, right? I came in this week,
I'm like, I'm bearish that 50% retracement caught an amazing short this morning, almost 200 points,
freaking ridiculous, absolutely great Monday, right? And now we'll see, okay, but we got bought
back now,
kind of similar to last Monday. What are we doing here? Does the market really need to rebalance
lower like I'm thinking? Right. And this is where I'm half and half now with my thoughts. Right. I
don't know for sure. I'm not I don't have the confirmation. That's where we just need more
data. And if it doesn't go the way I'm thinking, that's all right. We'll try and capitalize on the
price action that's there. Right. But if it does go how I'm thinking, we can instead of just making
a little bit of money, we can maybe really print some money on a few of these days on the week,
right? So yeah, that's how I'm feeling. There you go. Can't argue with that approach.
Appreciate those thoughts, Jordan. Looking forward to coming back around and getting
your pick or picks for this week. Let's go over to Chris. I saw Chris joined us up here.
for this week. Let's go over to Chris. I saw Chris joined us up here. Chris, we're still going
through the market sentiment. And for one, you, I have to give you some credit as well.
Andrew stole the TMF, the triple leveraged bonds last week from you, but you still had the
conviction there. You still took TLT and TLT alone had a 3% return. So we'd love to hear
your market sentiment thoughts.
And then, of course, the bond argument there.
Bonds did very well over the last few days.
Yeah, I think a lot of the noise around people saying that they wanted to dump U.S. treasuries
and how there was a disconnect between the usual movements where equities, when they
tend to move up, usually down and vice versa.
I think people are starting to see some safety in being in long-term treasuries again.
And you're starting to see kind of like a little bit of outflows from gold and into treasuries.
And one of the other things that you saw was the amount of buyers on treasuries actually increased significantly last week.
So we saw a nice move higher.
I mean, also when you combine that the Federal Reserve is reducing their roll off from $25
billion to only about $5 billion, that gives a lot more, a lot less, well, technically
a lot less treasuries, not a lot less, but less treasury sales that the Fed has to make up for.
So when I look at this market, I still believe that the bond market is unusually priced compared to where it should be relative to the risk in the equity markets on what people are willing to accept with the Trump administration
going back and forth, back and forth. So I'm going to stick to what I had last time, which is,
I don't know if anyone picked TMF, but I think I'm going to go with TMF. And also another area
is probably regional banks. So DPST. So I'll probably pick those two. I think regional banks are going to benefit from lower AOCI loss provisions in their calculus once you consider rates coming down. I think the number of cuts is actually going to get banked into about four cuts
this year once GDP data comes out this Wednesday. And then also we've got core PCE. So once that
data comes out, which I believe is probably going to be pretty horrendous, we're probably going to
see people jumping into the safety trade, in which case both TMF and DPST should start to rise, especially
DPST. I think that one will get a nice little boost from people looking to avoid the tariff
impact and also benefit from the lower AOCI losses on the balance sheets.
lower AOC losses on the balance sheets. So, yeah.
So, yeah.
What would be the, Chris, what would be the concerns around the regional banks right now?
Because I hear people talking about them here and there, but I hear some strong arguments that
people are looking closely at them. But what would be the, what would be the downside about
of regional banks if rates continue to stay high? Yeah, the big challenge for regional banks
is that they have loans on their balance sheet that are coming due, especially in the CRE space,
like our commercial real estate space. So if you have a mortgage that you issued for, let's say,
3%, 4%, and now the prevailing interest rate is about 5%, 6 six or 7%, right? What ends up happening now on your
balance sheet, it looks like you've got a phantom loss. So as interest rates come down, that phantom
loss is no longer a loss is actually, you know, like it actually gets boosted up. So what ends
up happening now is that your balance sheet looks a little bit cleaner. The challenge that you run
into is that a lot of these companies,
these commercial real estate companies that basically took out these loans,
they're in a very precarious position because they were able to take out loans at super low prices during COVID. And as they're coming due, a lot of the banks are just doing something called
pretending and extending because they're like, when the Fed lowers the interest rates, this is not going to be my problem
anymore because I will, you know, I won't have to basically bankrupt my client, in which case now I
have to recognize that loss on my balance sheet, right? So the biggest challenge with any bank is always around
two things, leverage and regulation. So if you over-lever yourself, you end up hitting regulatory
limits, and then you end up losing profitability. And then what ends up happening is the economy
weakens, and the people you lend money to, if that weakens, then you're in really bad shape.
So right now, one of the things that we keep
hearing from the federal government, especially Secretary Besant, is the need for deregulation.
And I think a lot of that news, as it comes along, you're going to see that the banks are
going to be able to kind of lend out money a little bit more. And that should theoretically,
you know, help their netting, while at the same time, as you lower
interest rates, it'll reduce their AOC. So it's almost like these banks will become a little bit
more, not a little bit, but they'll become more profitable. Definitely been keeping a close eye
on those interest rates. And I come from the real estate background. So I just know a lot of our clients
in that commercial real estate or even individual investors that have a few rental properties and
things, a lot of them have these 36 months or even a little bit longer kind of balloon bubble
type of notes that are all coming back due. And a lot of those people got those at much lower rates
than where we're sitting at today because they got them three, four, five years ago before rates really tracked
up. Chris, do you think we see currently on the FedWatch tool, we're seeing four cuts priced in
by the end of the year. Where do you think we stand maybe by the end of the year? Do you think
we get those three or four cuts? I think so. I think May could be sort of a, you know, a dovish, like, I won't call it pause,
but basically, they're probably not going to raise rates this May to basically show their
independence. And I think this is where I think the Trump administration kind of messed up a
little bit, because by being vocal about the needs for rate
cuts, it almost forces the Fed not to cut, even if the data that we get this Wednesday is soft.
So it's going to be a hard decision for the Fed to make, primarily because of what the president
did. If the president hadn't said anything and the data came out soft, they could have cut on May,
in May, and no one would have questioned it.
Now they actually have to figure that whole equation out.
But I still think like when you look at the hard data and the data is clearly showing
a slowdown in the economy that the Fed is going to be forced into action.
So either one of their mandates is going to come into play, which is stability, especially
if like unemployment starts to rise, regardless of what the CPI data
shows or the PCE data shows, they're going to have to make some, you know, moves on the cutting end.
So my thinking is you're starting to see the economy slow. So inflation is naturally coming
down. And then at the same time, you're starting to see, you know, areas of the economy starting
to show cracks, in which case you're starting to see layoffs as well. So once you layer on those two things, it almost guarantees a good amount of
cuts by the end of this year. You know, do I think it's going to be four? Is it going to be five? Or
is it going to be three? I'm probably leaning towards a four, you know, especially if the data
persists the way that we're seeing it right now. And I'd say one of the areas that everyone should be
paying attention to is shelter. I'm seeing a lot of inventory coming on the market from
pretty much everywhere. And the number of buyers stepping in is actually slowing down significantly.
So there's certain areas in the country right now that are actually seeing negative year-over-year
prices, like Texas, Florida, Tennessee, even some parts of California. You're starting to see like now that are actually seeing negative year over year prices like texas florida tennessee uh even
some parts of california you're starting to see like negative uh negative uh year over year um
uh media median sales which is kind of crazy to see and then when you look at like especially
florida if you look at uh the the inventory level the inventory is actually higher than it was
pre-covid right now so the number of active homes on on the market for sale is is actually higher than it was pre-COVID right now. So the number of
active homes on the market for sale is up there. And the number of price cuts that you're starting
to see in the market, it's starting to really get higher and higher. So I think a lot of people got
used to like, oh, my house is going to go up by 5%, 10% every year. And I think a lot of sellers
are waking up and saying, wait a second, like no one's buying my house. I better cut my prices. And, you know, the race to increase is lot of that data eventually going to make its way into the Fed's data
pool, in which case now the Fed's going to be motivated to cut to basically keep the
economy somewhat elevated.
And, you know, when you start to see prices around you and homes go down, you also get
the reverse wealth effect, which is, I think, another underrated thing that people may not
be paying attention to.
So when you start to see the homes around you, you know, appraised for less than what
you believe to be and basically selling for what's less than what you thought you were
going to sell, you know, quoting it for or thinking that it's worth, you're going to
naturally cut back a little bit.
So, you know, I think there's a bit of a shelter correction that may be coming our
I think there's a bit of a shelter correction that may be coming our way.
way.
I'm not going to say it's a 2008 level event where you saw this huge uptick in homes entering the market,
but you're definitely seeing this gap between affordability eventually is going to close.
And how is it going to close?
Is it going to close because the Fed goes back into ZERP mode again,
the Fed goes back into ZERP mode again,
in which case now everyone's getting 3% mortgages?
or is it going to be prices come down 10%, 20%, 30%,
and that's the way.
I think it's probably going to be somewhere in the middle
where the Fed comes down,
and you're going to get 4% or 4.5% mortgages again,
and at the same time, prices will go down by 10%, 15%,
and that should balance it out
and basically make homes affordable, hopefully.
So we'll see. And as rates come down a little bit for them to borrow and be able to put some more product out there on the market, that usually has a good effect for rent prices in general once there's more inventory available.
Let me ask you one more question, Chris, and then we'll get over to Guy for his market sentiment thoughts.
When it comes to rate cuts and bonds, how do you think if the Fed does start cutting in June and maybe they go 25 for meeting,
what do you think that does to the bond market? I mean, it's bullish, right? Because people are
going to try to front run it, especially if the expectations of further rate cuts are on the way.
People are going to say, well, wait a second, I should probably go up in duration right now. So,
you know, instead of keeping my money in money market, in which case
in about a year, I lose a hundred basis points from right now getting four and a half to let's
say three and a half, I might as well lock that, lock that in by buying a 10 year treasury or a
20 year and lock in a four, four point two, five percent or whatever. So I think that's going to
be the key. So the worse the news is, the more likely it is the bond market starts to pick up a lot of bids.
And right now it's a pretty solid time to buy some treasuries for those looking for fixed income long term at a decent return.
Beautiful. I appreciate those thoughts chris and i will say this uh your picks for this week tmf
that's the triple leveraged tlt on the long side and then dpst is the leveraged regional banks
also on the long side last week you had tlt which obviously did well and then venture global this
is the first time i've seen this since I've been around the Stock Ficking Show.
It closed today at the exact spot it opened last Tuesday.
A zero percent.
I just haven't seen that.
That's wild.
But I'm still in that a little bit with you. It's made a really nice move over the last few weeks, I would say.
Let me move over to Gav.
And it's not every day we get to have you on here.
You're a busy man.
I would love to get some of your market sentiment thoughts, what you're seeing out there.
If we have Gav.
I guess it's still a busy man.
Well, I thought I was going to get lucky and say, hey, we've got Gav here today.
But he may be busy, may be on a call there.
Well, I'll throw some of my thoughts into the mix.
And Ben, if you've got any follow-ups or anything before you jump into your picks, we'll go there next.
Kind of similar to Jordan, I think a couple of you will mention this.
I'm looking at, you know, the weekly candle from last week and obviously kind of the higher low.
And we essentially on QQQ today pushed back into, I mentioned this on a previous space today,
but we pushed back into the area back in March when we came down hard. It was on March the 10th.
And we spent like the next 10 trading days inside of a range. And that range, for example,
next 10 trading days inside of a range. And that range, for example, on QQQ was a low 470 area up
to about 483, 484. And we tested that range for the first time today. So I kind of expected
a little rejection there. If anything, I'm looking for us to maybe pull back the next day or two and
consolidate a little bit, and then hopefully get a move higher, maybe find
that 50-day moving average that we haven't touched since, gosh, back in February at this point.
That's on QQQ. SPY is very similar. SPY touched it, I think, the first day of March maybe.
And pretty similar look. That consolidation is a little bit higher on SPY, so we haven't really
quite gotten up there on the S&P just yet.
But I can't help but notice on some of the higher timeframes, some people use the strat as a trading theory or trading thesis, whatever strategy you want to call that.
And you have basically, it simplifies it to one, two, and three bars, either one bar being inside the previous,
a two bar being a directional one, and then a three bar is basically an engulfing candle.
And what we have last week on the weekly candle on both SPY and QQQ is a bullish engulfing of
basically an inside bar. So I'm looking at that and I'm thinking, okay, short term,
this still does look like this wants to continue floating a little bit higher, but I would like to see it pull back the next day or two.
Maybe that's just for selfish reasons from the trading side.
I just think that would be the easier trade to come back down, make another higher low back test, a little bit of support and be able to get long again, I guess, or maybe for the short term. I was also looking at the monthly
candle. This stuck out to me last week, late last week. The monthly candle on QQQ has flipped green,
and it's essentially a massive hammer candle on the monthly candle. I'm not a huge candlestick
pattern type of guy, but I do kind of keep things like this on my radar. And I'm looking,
we have essentially two trading days left in the month of April, and we might have a big green
hammer on QQQ. SPY is still red. It would need to push up to the monthly open around 557 over the
next 48 hours, which is doable, definitely is doable, but still a large bottom wick on this monthly candle.
But I say all that with a caveat, until we actually get some type of trade deals out there,
I just think we have a high chop risk. So it's tough for me to really get too excited. I did have
the dip buy that I was making across equity on April 4th and April 7th as we were kind of making that local bottom for now.
And since then, I've just been kind of trimming back out.
You know, I'm looking at this as, you know, the market is floating its way back upward, but we still don't have a whole lot of clarification of what's going on.
So that's kind of where I stand across market sentiment right now. I just think there's still too many question marks, but it does seem
like maybe there is a Trump put, a White House put, whatever you want to call it, whether
it's the bond market, whether it's the market itself, whether it's a combination of the two.
it's the market itself, whether it's a combination of the two, but it does seem like we have
somewhat of an area that we kind of want to hold for now.
So we'll see how that looks as we get more information and the market itself getting
kind of exhausted by all this news, starting to react less and less.
And of course, Jordan mentioned this, a ton of data coming up over the next few days,
especially. So obviously,
we're going to have GDP numbers on Wednesday. We're going to have the job numbers, NFP on Friday.
We have four MAG7s reporting this week. We have just about every different bucket or sector of
stocks in the market is reporting some type of name or more is reporting in all of those. I mean, from Energy on Friday with Exxon, you know, we've got obviously tech, we've got banks, we've got food.
I mean, we've got all kinds of sectors, retail reporting fintech with Robinhood.
So it'll be very interesting this week.
But yeah, with that said, I'm ready to go over to Ben.
Ben, if you have any thoughts around anything you've heard so far, we'd love for you to share those and then uh we'll jump into your picks for the week
um okay jordan's not going first i think he won for the week you want to go over the results real
quick well yeah okay well good point good point um jordan you are you're the winner so so you get
to go first with your picks actually great point Great point, Ben. Way to be honest with that.
I appreciate your integrity.
Let's see here.
All right.
Well, I'm running TQQQ back one more time because I'm bullish,
but the hard thing is I'm bearish into the middle of the week,
and if it just keeps being bearish, then I'm going to be screwed.
So I'm just going to run with that. And let's do... Let's do...
What's that?
Wait.
Let's do BTGD long as well.
The Bitcoin and gold ETF.
So we'll do TQQQ long,
and then we'll do BTGD long as well.
So triple leverage, QQQ.
You're running that back again.
And I do have that similar thought.
This one's bad though, guys.
Like this one's a shot in the dark because it's just like the timing of it is so hard.
Like if we were already at that 50% retracement, I'd be so bullish.
But we're just like anything could happen.
So I don't know.
We'll see how it goes.
Yeah, I mean, I can't argue with it.
And I do have that similar thought.
I do think we pull back maybe middle of the week here ahead of some of the data.
But honestly, I think that, like my point was, I think that makes it an easier spot to have a solid risk reward on buying, you know, buying a dipper going long midweek on a little bit further pullback.
So we'll see what happens there.
So that's TQQQ on the long side from Jordan.
And then BTGD, that's Bitcoin and gold.
It's an ETF that has exposure to both of those, which gold has been super resilient,
still hanging out up here right near the highs.
And then Bitcoin, and this may be a little prelude, but I may fade you on this one.
But Bitcoin, also a crazy move over the last week.
I mean, I think if anybody took one of the Bitcoin longs or MSTR longs, they would have been up close to you on the top of that leaderboard, Jordan.
But BTGD and TQQQ from Jordan, Ace the Kid.
Jordan aced the kid.
And now we can go over to Ben.
Jordan was our winner last week, 23.95%, I guess,
is what I'm seeing here as the winner.
Ben, you had a great week as well.
You were our second-place finisher, 13.4% average return.
But your pick on Mind, M-I-N-D, was right there,
23% return on that one, right there with Jordan's triple leverage QQQ.
And fantastic job, and I'm excited to hear what picks you have for us this week.
All right, great, thanks.
It's hard this week because, like Jordan was saying, and as I said in my sentiment comments at the beginning, the macro comments, I think we can push a little further in the indices of the 50 or 200-day moving averages
on SPIQQQ, whether that comes before the earnings or right after.
I don't know.
But then I've got to figure you're going to pull back, and who knows where we're going
to be by Monday afternoon.
So it really makes this particularly difficult.
And so I was looking for earnings. I'm like, it's got to be something that has an earnings report
that's going to, you know, really buck the market trend.
So you know, I'm actually going to go back to the well with Mind, MIND. They had their
earnings last week and that's why we got that 23% pop. But I'm thinking we can get another further pop. This thing is criminally undervalued
for a microcap, a really great balance sheet. They blew their earnings report out of the
water. They got tons of demand coming in. And it's probably worth at least $10, based
on my fundamental analysis. So had that big pop, pulled back for a few
days and it was a little bit pulled back because they, on the conference call, they said that
they were going to do a shelf offering, not because they needed the money but because
it's just a matter of routine. They always do it, they always renew it every year and
they want to have it there in case they want to do an acquisition one day or something
like that. So that may have kept the price down for a few days.
That came out Friday once we got that little bit of, quote-unquote, bad news out of the way.
We got a green day here today.
So I think we could see possibly some explosive follow-through
because I really feel like the stock was held back last week because of that impending shelf.
And now that that's out of the way, we could break back above the 50 DMA and make a move
towards 750.
So I'm going to go back to the well on mind as kind of a, you know, extended reaction
to good ER last week.
For the second pick, you know, I want to pick Hood, kind of.
The problem with Hood is one of my larger positions in my retirement account.
The problem with hood is it just moves so much with the market.
You know, this is one that I don't think there's going to be much, you know, no impact from
tariffs.
Maybe trading volume might be down potentially from retail because of market conditions. But man, this thing is, their earnings power is incredible.
They had a great report last quarter.
My only hesitation with this is if we do kind of tap that 50 or 200 on the spike EQQ and
then we pull back hard for two or three days, you know, Hood's going to go down with the
market into next week.
So I could pick Hood, and I guess I will, but I don't think it's going to work.
To be honest with you, I don't know.
From the short term, it's a little shot in the dark.
It's really pushing it, picking it at the top of the range here.
I like it longer term more so than for the week, but I'm not sure what else to pick,
to be honest with you.
My other pick last week, Bull W, was only up slightly 3%.
And I'm just going to talk about it. It's not going to be the official pick because I think
the risk got elevated here. But if you don't mind, let me just give an update on that.
You know, this is the D-SPAC, Bull, Webull, right? So Webull, as you know, exploded like crazy. It's like the 10
to 70, something like that, after the D-SPAC. It's pulled back, and it's crazy. This is
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 straight down days. These warrants are essentially 5-year call
options with an 11.50 strike. So at $2 right now, that's $13.50 trading below the $15.50 share price.
That disconnect exists because these are not exercisable yet, but they will be exercisable in two weeks.
Yeah, I was hoping that bull would find support at $17, and it didn't.
That was my base case, that bull would find support at $17, and then you can get like a 100% return on these bull warrants. But we're below 17. It makes this a little riskier
because now you can potentially technically see we will make a move to 13.50 by the time these
warrants become exercisable. But it's still one of my largest trade positions. So I just wanted
to give an update on that, that that does have the potential to give you gigantic returns,
like 50% to 100% returns here in the next couple weeks
if Webull kind of at least holds here.
If it holds this level, actually, that is a 100% move.
If Webull holds 50% and 50% over the next two weeks,
the warrants will be up 100%.
So I'm just going to throw that update out there.
It didn't work last week.
But so the two official picks are Mind, which I feel good about,
and Hood, which I feel less good about just because of where it is.
But I just love the company.
I love the stock.
I think it will be a good earnings report.
The reaction to it, who knows?
And like I said, it's like a top-five position long-term for me.
He likes the stock. I don't know? And like I said, it's like a top five position long-term for me. He likes the stock.
I don't know.
Where have I heard that before?
It seems like a quote from somebody.
Hmm.
I don't know.
I'll leave that one alone.
Very interesting though.
So you're going to go mind again, run that back, M-I-N-D, and then hood, H-O-O-D.
That's Robinhood, both on the long side, correct?
Yep.
All right.
Well, Gav, are you here?
Just testing a second time to see if Gav has any picks he wants to throw in.
If not, I will jump into mine.
Okay.
Ben, I'm going to double down on you here.
So I'm taking ROBN. that's leveraged Robinhood.
My thesis here is I think Robinhood, like you were saying, no tariff effect here.
I think they're going to have a good report. They just announced a lot of new things that
they're going to be excited about. Maybe we'll hear some more stuff on that. We also saw these
prediction markets come in. This is kind of the base of on that. We also saw these prediction markets come in.
This is kind of the base of my thesis. I feel like these prediction market things that they've done,
which is quote unquote gambling, sports betting in a way, and there's several other things,
right? You can bet on the Fed rate. You can almost hedge your portfolio in some ways doing that.
Not financial advice, but just ideas I've heard thrown out there.
But I keep seeing, going back to March Madness, the amount of people that I saw around this app
talking about trading these prediction markets on March Madness games. And we also saw it for
the Masters, right? They've got all the NBA playoffs on there. They've got NHL on there.
I think they're going to have a report on there. I think they're going to have a
report on that. I think we're going to see a nice boost in revenue from that. I mean,
I don't think it's going to make a huge difference in like the bottom line numbers,
but I think it's going to be an eye-opening number when I look at that. I keep seeing,
you know, it's what, like three, four cents per contract that's traded on there. And I'm seeing,
you know, thousands and thousands and millions of contracts on different sports prediction markets, I should say, instead of
sports bets prediction markets that I keep seeing on there. And so I feel like that's going to be,
you know, kind of an added cherry on the top to what has already been, you know,
pretty fantastic last few quarters for Robinhood. So I think they're going to continue the momentum.
So that's going to be my first pick, ROBN.
And my second pick, I'm going to take BTCZ.
That's short Bitcoin.
And it's not for a long time.
It's not for a long time. It's for a good time, right?
It's for a good time, right?
Reason being, Bitcoin made a massive run out of the zone it was in.
It's up here, backtesting into a lot of value, and it's a golden retrace.
So full disclosure, I did enter this position on Friday up near the highs.
That level on Bitcoin is $96,000.
Right when we were hitting that level, some of my alerts triggered.
If you look left on your daily chart, you'll see that this 96 area down even to 93, 92 is a very heavy level.
I think we are going to pull back a little bit here.
I actually trimmed a little bit this morning on the dip.
So just full disclosure on my actual position around here. However, I do think it's going to pull back down, at least get back to 92.
And I really like it to pull back and back test what it broke out from maybe those previous highs.
The 200 day moving average is down around 89k. So I'm shorting Bitcoin a little bit right here through BTCZ that's basically a 2x leverage ETF
on the short side so I'm longing the short ETF there so that's my pick and if Gav isn't around
I'll go ahead and get this tweet up and we'll go with the picks that we have on the board for now
I do want to highlight a couple of oh i see you know i can yeah okay cool
cool cool um yeah i can throw out a couple pics real quick and let's see if we can get gerald up
on stage i don't see him in the audience just yet but i'll bump him real quick to join up
in the meantime i will make a couple of picks. Let me take one second.
Please join now. Okay. All right. So interesting picks here I actually do have for y'all.
First pick is going to be a company that reports earnings. This Thursday, they have had escalating
revenue every single quarter for a while now.
I see Paul coming up, so I'll move fast on this.
Their EPS has been a beat every single quarter until their last quarter for the last four
years, and I'm excited to see where it goes.
The stock's doing great this year, and that is Duolingo, D-U-O-L.
I'm on my 500-day streak today, so in honor of that, I will take Duolingo as one of my longs.
And then for the other one, did anyone take Double Leverage Tesla?
No, nobody even mentioned Tesla yet this week, which I was kind of surprised.
I will take...
I'm bearish until we get over that range high I talked about.
That's why I didn't...
I'll take TSLT then.
Double Leverage Tesla. It's why I didn't. I'll take TSLT then double leverage.
It's up 42% in the past week.
Let's see if we can get a little bit more of a move upward.
So I'll take those two.
And then if you want any other thoughts there,
we can share them.
And then I see Paul's up here for us to get rolling.
that,
that finished out the picks for the week.
I am going to tweet this right now.
That way everyone can see everyone's picks that we just called out and let us know.
Who do you think is going to win this week?
Will Jordan run it back?
Will Ben finally get his vengeance and top Jordan again?
Will I short Bitcoin and get Robinhood correct?
Or will Duolingo, the bilingual kids, will they take the cake with some earnings this week?
I don't know.
We also have Andrew.
We have Chris.
Some great picks here.
Appreciate everyone that joined.
Make sure you follow all those pickers that were up here.
You'll see them in that tweet.
Give them a follow and check out all of their great content.
And with that said, I'm excited to jump into this next conversation, Gav.
Real quick before you do that, Eb, you didn't get to the year-long picks.
Definitely let's schedule that
because i can't wait to talk about those two picks if you guys can update on it yeah ben absolutely
i tell you what next week let's make a point maybe we open the show next week with those
year-long picks uh remind me of that ben because i definitely want to hit those and we'll plan to
do that next monday thanks for calling that out, Ben. Appreciate you joining.
Love it.
Yeah, let's get right into this next conversation here.
Paul, how's it going?
If you want to tap that unmute button.
In the meantime, Emp, if you're getting up that tweet and you can change the title of the space as well, that would be perfect.
Paul, how are you doing?
I see you unmuting.
Good.
How are you guys?
We're doing great. We're finally getting some interesting tailwinds, I would say, in this market that started to provide a little bit.
And you guys popped today pretty hard, too, huh?
Yeah, before you put any disclaimers out, I guess you should put the disclaimers out.
But, you know, if you want to, these guys, whoever wants to win this competition you're having, we're up 13.5% to 13.75% today.
We're up a half a point, half a percentage after market.
And we're up 27% this week.
I'm going to change my pick.
Yeah, well, the competition starts from tomorrow morning.
So not too late for others to look into it. And, hey, yeah I mean, listen, we love to see the stock moving nicely. We're going to have a whole conversation here. As you were alluding to, as a quick disclosure off the top, we've been working together with the team from OS Therapies for almost a year now, I believe going on eight months, which has been great to see. And I'm always excited when we get them on spaces once a month for an update. Always nice when it's coming right after we just got
some news as well. And if you take a look at the stock, this is OSTX. You will see the movement
that it's had, like he said, over 20% within just the past week or so. So something to keep an eye
on. As he also mentioned disclosures,
you know, we do these spaces. The SEC classifies them as advertisements, paid advertisements.
They're not intended for informational purposes. They are just, no, they're intended for informational
purposes only, not recommendations or endorsements of specific stocks or investment strategies.
Investing in stocks involves risk, including the possibility of losing your principal.
Always conduct their research and consult with licensed financial advisor if you feel the need to before making
any investment decisions. With that being said, this is going to be a good one. I have a great
feeling for this. We've been doing a bunch of spaces with the team. And like I said, news
recently, big moves coming right here. Seems like certainly you've stabled out. Even in the past month, this company is up 17%.
In that same time period, SPY is flat, literally 0.04%. So nice to see that move coming out here.
So Paul, welcome back to the panel. I'd love to turn the mic over to you if maybe just a brief
refresher of the company and everything you do for those that haven't heard about it before,
and then we'll go from there. Well, I want to catch everyone's attention on this because I'm not going to share any
material, non-public information, but if you dive into our SEC filings, the reason we hit our 52
week low, even though we've only been around since August 1st, our historic low last Tuesday or
Wednesday is because there was a pipe resetting and that valuation of the shares was driven down very
synthetically. So I really expect from now on until we get to the FDA and we get feedback
from the FDA, and this is, you know, every investment takes risk, but from $1.12 to $1.95
in a week, $1.93 at one point today. I see that the stock growing between now and
our FDA feedback and our FDA approval if we get it significantly.
Yeah, the FDA pieces, I mean, they're just kind of, it seems to be like the make or break in this
industry. Maybe you can talk to kind of your long-standing experience with how hard those are,
how it operates, what the process looks like, some of those different pieces. Well, sure. And a lot of your listeners have heard about
our technology. We're firing up the immune system to attack a rare pediatric cancer called
osteosarcoma. You know, there's not been a new treatment in over 40 years. They're still using
some really nasty chemo that is the worst cancer chemo regimen in cancer.
And we're basically firing up the immune system by giving it a biologic infection.
We shut it down at hour four, and that immune response tells the body to go out and find
these nasty little cancer seeds that are trying to land in your lungs.
And we announced our results of our data back in
January. It looks good. We are working on the comparator data, and there are a lot of folks
waiting for that. We will be announcing that at the end of June. And we're waiting for feedback
from the FDA in mid-June. And then we go to the FDA in mid-July, and hopefully we get approval
by the end of the year. There are a lot of things going on at the FDA, but what I would say
is that the FDA and our reviewer are still there, and there were 60 orphan approvals last year,
and the new commissioner wants to see safe drugs out on the market.
And our drug has very, our therapeutic has very safe, very safe safety profile.
Yeah. So obviously there's some data to back this up. Can you walk people through the latest
data sets, what you've been seeing? Sure. So what we announced in January is that a third of the
patients, um, the, our therapy worked, uh, they didn't have any recurred, uh, osteosarcoma in
their lungs, which, uh, once you get one recurrence, they tend to keep coming and keep coming and
coming. Uh, about 90% of the patients get recurrence over and over until they can no longer
breathe. Um, they pass away. Um, that's about half of the kids that getrence over and over until they can no longer breathe. They pass away.
That's about half of the kids that get osteosarcoma get this recurrence into the lungs.
It looks like a third of the patients on our drug, who are really some of the tougher patients, did pretty well.
And so we're pulling some comparator data together from around the world and across the United States.
And we will submit that to the FDA and we'll share what they think about it here in a few weeks.
It's amazing.
We're already entering into May.
And so, you know, by June 15th, we'll get some idea from the FDA where they want to go with it.
And we're feeling very confident.
I like that.
Two topics that I know that you mentioned that you want to touch on.
I want to hit these early and then we will work around the panel, hit on some different
items.
The big things here are going to be the canine data and the FDA meeting.
Again, for those that are unfamiliar, I would encourage you to really pull up OS
therapies on Google or actually, Em, can you get that tweet up that has the
comment below that has the link with the research paper? I would love to get that up in front of
this for everyone as well. But what you're really focusing on is curing cancer, which I love right
off the bat. It's a noble cause. And you guys are doing it in a way where you're really focusing on is curing cancer, which I love right off the bat. It's a noble cause.
And you guys are doing it in a way where you're targeting not just humans, but also dogs, right?
And so working on curing this cancer in both dogs and humans, which is great.
And within that, you're getting some pretty promising details and data.
Now, we're speaking to it a little bit.
Let's talk about the canine data specifically and what you're pulling from that and maybe
why you're also pursuing this for dogs.
Yeah.
And, you know, a lot of you that have Tropic and a lot of you guys that have been really
solid supportive of us understand that, you know, there are only a thousand kids a year
in the United States get this bone cancer, 20,000 globally, but 30 to 40,000 dogs a year. Number one disease killer of dogs in the united states get this bone cancer 20 000 globally but 30 to 40 000 dogs a year
uh number one disease killer of dogs in the united states number two after automobiles
and there are no treatments out there for them and these dogs get this bone cancer they present
very similar to humans in the long bones they usually get resected and they get blasted with some radiation and about 100% of them are usually dead within a year.
This same therapy was used to treat the dogs and very similar to the humans.
They present the same in the long bones.
They metastasame in the lungs and then the brain.
And it looks like
they responded very similarly to the therapy about a third of the dogs responded as opposed to
pretty much 100 don't don't survive uh the radiation and and surgery um so really exciting
for the canines um but uh i think what you may be alluding to, Gav, is the data that we released in a press release either last week or the week before, unpublished data from the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Nicola Mason, who did some of the top clinical trials in canines before we did the human trial, phase one and phase three
trials. She did a trial where she, they didn't amputate the dog's leg. They gave the dog three,
three rounds of treatment and it seemed to control the cancer so much so that there wasn't a need to resect the dog's leg and it seemed to control the cancer, uh, in that,
in a subpopulation of that, of the, of that trial. So if the, you think about that, along with the
clinical trial we did in humans, where it showed that our therapy worked even better for patients
that had had more, uh, metastasis and more resections.
And you, you can combine that.
It gives a lot of opportunity to address patients that are one going down the, the
really bad path of multiple resections and multiple recurrences in the lung that
our therapy works well for them.
But it also could indicate that we could get these patients, both the two-legged and four-legged, before the...
Oh, there we go. The cutoff. You got dropped for a second.
Yeah, sorry. And, Gav, I can finish this. This is Gerald.
Yeah, please.
What he's basically saying is that there's a potential that we could actually stop amputation, at least in the subset of these patients.
So, you know, the idea that in a human, we gave 16 doses basically until you failed.
Right. And if you didn't fail within 16 doses, you survived the 12 months.
And we're now doing long term follow up. And all the patients who got through the 12 months are still doing well today.
who got through the 12 months are still doing well today.
In the dogs, you know, it looks like it's made something similar
or potentially even more effective insofar as they only gave three doses.
They didn't give, you know, eight or 16.
And with just three doses, about a third of the dogs, you know,
ended up in long-term survival over 12 months.
So it really does look, you know, this is immune training.
It looks like it's, you know, an effective immunotherapy that's training the immune system
to recognize these micrometastases.
And if what held true, you know, later on preventing metastases or preventing further
metastases or preventing the growth of metastases in dogs, you know, that translated into humans. And, you know, we have the
clinical data. Now that we've shown potentially you could start the primary tumor, not just the
metastasis, that opens up the potential of also treating in humans frontline. And so, you know,
while it's not an immediate thing that we're looking at, certainly we think it's going to be
something a lot of patients are interested in because there is a subset of these patients that refuse um amputation
and they just do chemo and in in that setting you know the outcomes are extremely poor
um so you know we're not recommending of course that people don't do amputation because right
now that's the standard of care but if you're choosing not to do amputation certainly
this looks like it may offer hope
one day as a potential treatment option.
Yeah, I definitely think a lot of people are hearing you talk about being able to move
away from the amputations.
And I think there's a significant amount of value that people hold within that area.
And so, yeah, I mean, to me, it's an exciting area.
Paul was touching on some of the FDA items
and some of the upcoming pieces there. Do you have additional things that you'd like to share
on those topics, Cheryl? No, I mean, from my perspective, and I think Paul hit it, you know,
we were meeting with the FDA to align on exactly how to do the calculations with the natural
history or the synthetic control arm, as they call it. know provided we agree um we think you know we're in a really good spot to keep on our
timeline and and get this thing in in the second half of the year and hopefully get it approved
so uh right now would you're used to thinking like q3 q4 uh the approval wouldn't happen before q4
that's that's just not in the cards but certainly in Q4, that is a possibility.
And there's always sometimes delays with the FDA, but we don't expect nine months of delays, that's for sure.
And so we have to get the in order to get the voucher, we have to get it done before September 30th, 2026.
And we're very confident that we're in line to do that.
Our key advisor today just told us he got another one in in a PRV.
So that was good.
We know we're working with the right people to get it across the finish line.
So, you know, we're doing everything that we can on our side.
We think the data, you know, speaks for itself.
And we think the FDA is in the right spot. Certainly, if they're talking about approving stuff based on mechanistic data alone
and then seeing what happens post-market, you know,
when you come in with clinical data like we have, you know,
we think that really buttresses our position.
Fantastic.
I also went ahead and I got pinned up top in the space,
the research that I recommend people go ahead and take a look at.
I think that it has some great items for those that might want to deep dive into this,
that you can truly understand, you know, what the stock is, what they're doing right now.
It's right around that 43 million market cap. It's had quite the run, like we said,
in the last week or two. That page that you can click into from stock research today
really goes through how they're targeting, you know targeting osteosarcoma and other solid tumors, what the process is, what it looks like, where
the upside is.
One last question for me, and then I want to bring in Tropic, Lady Trader, and others
who have gotten a lot of familiarity.
This could go to Gerald or Paul.
I just would love for you to talk a little bit about beyond the end of this year, let's
say you were to get that approval in Q4, what next year could look like?
Well, next year would be a very exciting year for the company and actually for patients, right?
Because, you know, then these patients could get this first new treatment over 40 years.
I think then we also get that priority review voucher, which, you know, that's just increasing in value.
It's rumored the next one's going to go around $175, $185 million until Congress reauthorizes this legislation.
And even then, there's so much demand for these priority review vouchers because it's big pharma and big biotech being able to, you know, basically global access or clear cut in line at the FDA. And there's a lot
of intended consequences. And you'd talk about unintended consequences of legislation. The
intended consequences of this legislation were for companies like us to do more research and
rare and pediatric diseases and get those products out on the market. And it gives us the funding to
do more research and do other trials and other solid tumors like breast cancer, esophageal cancer.
But it also gets other black bucket buster products on the market sooner, which obviously Big Pharma, Big Biotech is willing to pay for.
So we want that legislation reauthorized.
Between now and then, our priority review voucher continues to gain value.
What we really want to do is get on the market, but then we use some of that money to do trials
and other big cancers, other solid tumors, because it presents very much like osteosarcoma.
You resect the cancer, you blast the body with chemo, and you hope it doesn't come back.
Well, we're trying to prevent it from coming back, and we're trying to remove the hope
and put a little science behind that. So that's what next year looks like. It's, you know, getting drugs, the drug to the patient.
It's building that, those other indications out. And it's looking at our ADC technology that we've
talked about before, which is kind of pinpoint delivering of chemotherapy and other drugs to
directly to the cancer instead of kind of trashing the body as it
gets there. Yeah, it's an exciting time ahead for next year. Sorry, I got one more question. I'll
bring it over to the others. Who right now is the competition in this area? Like what other stocks
do they look at as comparison to maybe see market caps and trajectories? So there's no competition
for osteosarcoma because, you know,
1,000 cases, and we can make a pretty good business out of it, you know, 300, 400, 500
million dollars out of this with 1,000, 1,500 patients. And then, you know, obviously the
ex-US market, Europe, UK, Asia, Middle East, South America, the incidence of osteosarcoma is the same in 20,000 patients
around the world. So we want to get to them. There's no real competition, but a great comparator
would be day one bio, DAWN. Like us, they had a rare pediatric disease. They got approval in
November. They got the priority review voucher. They sold it
a little early. They sold it for $105 million. And then they have this ADC technology in the
background, and they're valued at about $1.2 billion right now.
Appreciate that. Okay, awesome. Let's go around to some others. Tropic, how's it going?
Okay, awesome. Let's go around to some others. Tropic, how's it going?
I was like, oh, wow, that was pretty quick. Is that normal turnaround that quick for the FDA to approve this meeting?
Because I didn't really expect it to be responded to so fast.
I think statutorily that I think they have to respond within 14 days for that.
And then they have to respond. They have to give us once they agree to it, they have to give us a meeting within 50 days.
So that's why we know that we'll get a response back from them and get their feedback from them
by mid-June. So it's relatively predictable. Joe, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, Paul's correct,
just to technicality. They have to respond to you. They don't have to grant you the meeting
necessarily. Oftentimes, they come back with clarification questions because what you're asking wasn't exactly clear uh and um yeah the the meeting
they gave us was basically the fastest meeting that we could get and they gave us the meeting
um and the response date that they will give us the answers from the meeting to um within that
time frame so it would I agree with you.
It was quicker than a lot of people get.
But as Paul said, it was not like necessarily out of the ordinary.
But it was good that we didn't have to go back and forth and clarify anything
because it meant that what we asked was very clear.
They understand exactly why we asked it in a response basically
to the breakthrough therapy designation.
And so we think we're in a good spot with that.
Really cool on that.
One thing, well, it's kind of a two-part question related to the press release that you guys
had put out about that is it has to be really, I guess you'd say awkward sitting on data that you know is
very favorable and just can't putting it out. And then waiting on this whole thing to go through to
be able to present it. Cause I saw that you guys were based on the recommendation or the review,
I guess you would say of the FDA that you'd be able to present that at that huge conference
that's coming up as part of the keynote. what exactly would that mean for the company per se? And also for you guys that have
just been sitting on this data that you know what the results have been showing?
Gerald is much better than material non-public information answers.
Yeah. So, you know, I mean, it's often the case with investigators, you know, like the clients that we have that they, you know, wait till major conferences to present the data.
You know, for example, our investigator wants to present the data at ASCO. Unfortunately, ASCO is in early June.
Right. And it wouldn't really make a lot of sense to go out and present data, you know, ahead of an answer from the FDA and how
they want it viewed. So, you know, it's, it is to a certain extent frustrating, but really, you know,
we're not here for the beauty contest. We're here to get the drug approved. And so within that
context, you know, we got, you know, it's just one of those things you have to keep your eye on the
prize. Right. And, and yeah, you know, I'd love to see my stock higher, but it is what it is. We just got to wait.
I hear that you can always you can't always necessarily tell what's the best thing by where all the hype is anyways.
But one thing that I will say that I did find really interesting what you said earlier about the amputation thing.
And if never before I realized how much psyche actually goes into how a patient deals with
things.
And I've always heard that because my mom, my aunts, like I'm surrounded by nurses, my
family.
But just recently, a simple thing like a wisdom tooth, I had a procedure and I listened to
positive music for three days straight.
And I was extremely positive.
Unlike last time when I pulled wisdom teeth, I went into it extremely fearful. And that was a brutal process that took months of recovery.
And I did this one right now. And like one week later, I'm back to normal. And I think
just the mental, I guess you would say the impact of just being positive and all those things really
does help with recovery. And I could just imagine what that'd feel like,
especially as a young person, fearing an amputation is coming. Like the rest of the body has to,
I guess you would say, just not respond favorably. Like we're not even talking about just cancer in
general, just everywhere within the body has to be impacted by hearing, hey, you don't have to cut
off one of your limbs. That's just amazing to me.
Yeah, I mean, that was the dream, right? I mean, that was the dream.
And to actually see some data after this period of time,
that was obviously very good.
But there's still a lot of work to do with dosing.
There's potentially other things that you could add alongside
that could further improve it.
There's a lot of work to do, but it is very exciting.
Great questions there from Tropic.
Got a couple others who are very familiar with the company up here.
Lady Trader, would you want to jump in?
Absolutely.
And Tropic, what you mentioned about the amputation, that's really a great point there.
And I'm so glad that there are definitely certain things that are being done in the science sector to basically help with that, right, to where it doesn't come to that point.
I remember when I was in the NICU, there was a mom who sent me pictures of her two twins.
And they were actually, for other reasons, but they had to be,
their hands had to be amputated. And I, like, still I remember that image in my mind, and it
was the most disturbing thing that I've ever seen. Like, they were beautiful little babies,
but, you know, they had to be amputated, and it was just really, really sad for me to witness that.
Still, to this day, it hurts me.. So I'm glad that there are developments being done
to kind of help, you know, in that area.
I do wanna know about the FDA approval
and I'll tell you this very openly.
I think I might've mentioned it
in one of the previous spaces as well,
that I'm one of those investors that is cursed
when it comes to biotech stocks.
I don't have a very solid track record there.
I have a great track record in different other areas.
And I'll tell you, I have not invested in biotech stocks in a very long time.
So, of course, I've learned since then.
But this was like one sector, especially when I was doing very active investments in TradFi at the beginning of my TradFi career.
I lost a lot of money in biotech sector. So obviously, as an investor, it's like, oh, yeah, you know, everything is great when you're
jumping on investors' calls, earning reports, and all of those things look fine. And then, boom,
you know, all of a sudden, there's like, okay, FDA didn't approve, and you know that's when you lose money and so I definitely want to talk to you all about that
If the FDA does not approve
What are the next steps that that are taken usually like do you?
Come back work on it again and then reapply. What's the process if you could go over that a little bit. That would be great
Let me talk about the macro and then i'll let gerald
get into the fda part but you know lady chair i get it uh this period in investing in biotech
has been brutal the xbi and you know since 2022 we really thought 2025 was going to come back
that reminds me of 2008 through 2012. And when there is a significant
downturn in the market, there's significant downturn in innovation. There's just not as
much money out there. I was on a call with 25 other small biotech CEOs about 10 days ago,
and they were talking about how excited they were to do their fundraising in 2025.
Luckily, we raised our money in 2024, and they're in a lot of trouble.
But what I will say is there are individual biotechs, and we're one of them, that the data looks good.
We've done the right things.
As Gov mentioned earlier, we've talked about this
for eight months. We've told you what we're going to do. We've done everything we said we're going
to do from the beginning of this company. It took a little longer and always takes a little bit more
money, but everything we've said we were going to do, we've done so far. And so getting the FDA and
getting approval is a challenge. It's really hard. This is hard stuff.
We're very confident, but I'll let Gerald walk through, you know, what we think we need to do and then, you know, alternatives to that. Yeah. So, I mean, look, the, the, this was the, the
good thing from that standpoint, this is what, this was an open label trial, right? So this is
not double blind placebo controlled. And so when you break the blind, you get, you know, a significant stats penalty. And then, you know, you're kind of
playing from behind with either having to do another trial or expanding the trial and having
it be much bigger. So within the context of what we're doing, you know, our trial is officially
stopped enrollment. You know, we're doing all the things that are required to close the trial.
But the trial, in theory, is not actually closed.
And the reason for that is that we have ongoing follow up.
And, you know, we are in the event the FDA does say, hey, we need X number more patients,
more patience because that's really the only thing they could they could say um you know i mean that
because that's really the only thing they could they could say.
the the stats are the stats uh i think you know provided our 33 we know that's 33 you know the
question is is is you know is the comparator coming in higher or lower than that 20 and if
it comes in higher how much higher because there's still some room higher um although you know
obviously we can't talk about the
comparator.
We're just very, we can allude to previous statements publicly in terms of the natural
history.
You know, we're confident with regards to where we are.
So the only question is, will the FDA want us to enroll some more patients now?
Or will the FDA want us to identify a biomarker,
right? Or something like that to further enhance the data set. So it's either more patients or
some kind of biomarker. It's one of those two things. Because it was a single arm study,
it's not really the case that we'll have to go back from scratch and they're not going to ask us to do a placebo control because that's unethical. So the, the, what's, you know,
the potential options in terms of what would happen if they don't just say yes, is there are,
you know, there are, um, there, there are options. Now, um, if it's just a biomarker,
obviously then that still leaves the door open for, open for the priority review voucher, right?
If it's more patients for a longer period of time, then obviously that kind of takes that
off the table. So we're, and, you know, unless they come back really soon and tell us that,
in which case we could probably get a few more. But, you know, that's the risk. We don't think
it's going to be, hey, you got to go back and spend another $100 million. The this is, you know, hard statistics.
So sorry for those don't under stats, but no, you have 30% and 20%. And then there's the likelihood
that it's somewhere above or below 30 or above and below 20. And the more patients you have,
the smaller, the likelihood that it's a big Delta from that number. So, you know, the more patients you have,
the smaller the error bars, the smaller the error bars, the more certain the agency is that it's
statistically significant. So, you know, because we're dealing with natural history study and,
and, you know, there is always the potential to add more patients that are, you know, from the
natural history, i.e. you go back and look at their
history, you don't have to treat them. We're pretty confident that we can get to a situation
where the error bars don't overlap. Again, you know, we haven't presented the data, but that
is a good spot, and we've identified various databases worldwide that we think we can get
us there. So, you know, there is risk, obviously, like you can't say there's no risk,
but we think we've done a pretty good job in mitigating it.
Thank you. That was great.
And I think that was my prior experience with biotech stocks was what actually
made me stay out of Moderna.
I wasn't even willing to look at it.
Wow. Yeah.
But then you missed it.
I missed it.
But yeah, I'm just one of those traders and investors who's like, okay, if I miss it,
you know, there's enough opportunities, I'll find the next one.
But I do want to talk about one more thing.
So we have investors, you know, who may feel like, okay, I definitely like, you know, what
you're saying.
Company looks good.
What you're doing, definitely.
It resonates with me that this is another thing too, right. I've mentioned it
before that I did lose my dad to cancer. So, um, you know, companies that are doing something
for cancer to help cure cancer are near and dear to my heart. And so, um, it's a cause that speaks
to me. Right. So I want to have exposure to this, but then also it's like, okay,
from the investor's perspective, would it be better to get some exposure now
or would it be better just to kind of,
especially considering the price action right now
that we've seen so far,
maybe stay out and then wait until,
you know, what we hear from FDA.
So some investors may be a little bit concerned around that,
and they may say, okay, I'm going to wait
and wait until the FDA approval comes out.
And maybe, yes, the stock will skyrocket maybe,
but there's always pullbacks and enter.
And it would be more of a confirmed entry at that point
than what we have today.
So what would you say to those investors
who are thinking from that perspective?
Well, look, I mean, I think that, you know, that those are all reasonable positions.
And, you know, for the stock to get to where we think it can get to, there's going to have to be able to jump in later.
That's, you know, that's the nature of it.
So we think it's pretty de-risk, but, you know, there are some important things coming up.
pretty de-risked. But, you know, there are some important things coming up. I think if you look
at the history, you know, you go back and looked at the history of companies that have data like
ours in spaces like ours, it's reasonably good. I think, you know, to the extent that you believe
what the agency is saying, which to date, we don't have any reason to not believe them because,
you know, so far it's not a huge track record with the new administration.
But thus far, we think that, you know, rare pediatric cancer, rare pediatric diseases, orphan diseases, they seem to be saying a lot of great things from a biotech standpoint.
So, you know, I think I think you have to pick and choose your spots.
But we think it makes sense, you know, to to to start nibbling, of course, with the management team.
And we, you know, we don't see, I just don't see how the FDA is going to come back and say, this is a fail, go back to the drawing board.
I just don't see how that's a possibility, but of course it is.
With that said, you know know we think the data is
is is strong we think it stands on its on its own and uh you know if you choose to wait and
you're willing to pay more that's okay thank you those are the all those are all the questions i
had today thank you well and i'll comment on that too, right? So I mentioned earlier, the new commissioner of the FDA has been very clear in his position that if it's safe, he wants to get things out on the market.
You know, the first law in medicine is first do no harm.
And the side effects of our therapy are chills and slight fever.
And that's indicative of firing up your immune system, which is exactly what we want to do.
It doesn't have the neutropenia and the hair loss and all the other horrible side effects
of the chemotherapy. And so our patients are receiving it and receiving it and tolerating it very, very well without all those side effects.
And that's something that's really important to these patients and to the FDA.
So I think we're in good shape, but, you know, there's always a regulatory risk.
Thank you. Back to you, Gus.
Can I ask a little quick follow-up question on that?
How has it been working with the new FDA commissioner?
Was it Martin Macri? Is that his name?
I'm not sure I'm pronouncing it.
But I know he was sworn in back on April 1st,
or you're almost a month into kind of his tenure here.
What's it been like? Have we seen any changes?
What's the general vibe over there?
What I can say, you know,
basically he did the best thing possible for us.
If you go back in the last week and a half,
week really, and look at XBI,
the reason it's up, you know,
the way it's up is because he came back and said, specifically,
we are prepared to approve orphan rare diseases based on mechanism alone. Mechanism alone,
i.e. not even any clinical data. So the XBI was in the 60s at one point, you know, on the 10th,
and it's at 81 today, right? And so, you know, when you look at something like that,
that's the reason. He specifically called out exactly the area where we are. And so if you
look at the pockets of the market that have gone up, look at our stock, look at other rare, you
know, rare cancers, rare pediatric cancers. That's the reason. So, you know,
maybe it's not great for vaccine manufacturers, but it's good for us. And so I think that's
really, there's been distinguishments in the market based on that.
Good question there from EMP. Hey, Lucas, I saw you're on stage. Did you have any thoughts here?
I'm still reading about it. Thanks for having me, by the way. I'm still reading about it right now.
It's interesting. And the only thing I can think of is what would prevent you guys right now,
real quickly, because I've already heard you guys speaking already.
I've already heard you guys speaking already.
What would prevent you guys from getting FDA approved?
Is it literally, you were talking about like statistical relevance and like how many people you actually need.
And that's why you don't close your trial, which makes sense.
It's because you need to add more people and then get more, I guess you could say statistically relevant data.
By adding more people, obviously you get closer to a real number.
What is the biggest hurdle you guys have to clear right now for that?
Uh, getting the FDA to agree that we don't need to do that. I mean, I think, I think that's,
you know, that's what it boils down to. Um, obviously, you know, there's CMC, there's a lot
of stuff, you know, we've all seen CRLs related to manufacturing you know there there
are there are certainly other variables right beyond just the data but the good thing is the
the company that had this asset before we took it over you know unfortunately for their investors
they blew a ton of money but they did a lot of very good things with that money, including making sure that the manufacturing was buttoned up.
And, you know, our regulatory people have been very pleased with what they've seen in terms of the diligence on the readiness aspect of getting the product to market.
And, you know, we are on the commercial standpoint, which, you know, there's some crossover between clinical and commercial.
You have to get ready to go commercial.
And, you know, there's a lot of aspects to that.
And so those things we started working on, you know, as soon as the trial, we learned the data from the trial in January.
So we, you know, we've there's definitely risks, you know, there's risks every turn. But, you know, our chief medical officer, you know, he brought Yervoy to market, one of the first immunotherapies ever.
They went through.
He was the chief medical officer of the prior company that owned this asset.
And so he was directly involved in all of the aspects of getting the products ready to actually be approved.
Unfortunately, the management decided to go for larger indications.
You know, we have an asset in the company that finished a phase three in HPV, for example.
Right.
Highly unusual that you have an asset that finished the phase and it wasn't a failed
phase three.
Right.
They had a spa with the FDA and then the FDA kind of changed and they wanted a second phase three. Okay, that's fine. But there wasn't any issues with the manufacturing because the BLA
was submitted, right? So, I mean, the other aspects, the other things that needed to happen
for this technology to actually get over the finish line were done by the other company.
And those cost a lot of money. And we took those over, you know,
without that expense. So while the FDA hasn't, you know, looked at it for our asset in this moment,
they're going to get, they're going to be doing that, we expect. It is good that all of the work
that went in before was validated by being by you know the fda accepting a submission
and actually you know telling them hey we want to see more efficacy data hpv is a much larger
disease obviously an osteosarcoma you know that that that kind of stuff happens um but it looks
like in terms of the readiness to actually get it in and not get it rejected based on technicalities that it looks like we're in a good spot.
It sounds like you guys pick these up or you pick this thing up kind of like
after another company kind of, um, or for me. Okay. Yeah.
Question to you is how, um, this is my last question.
How successful have you guys been picking things up like this and, uh,
getting FDA approval afterwards?
Well, we'll tell you in a year's time.
So our team between our chief medical officer,
chief technology officer,
and me have launched over 15,
probably what the number is.
I don't know what the number is.
I've been involved with nine approvals.
I've been involved with nine approvals.
So, you know, we've done it before, and we think we're there to do it again.
A lot of seasoned experience on our team with getting FDA approvals.
Yeah, and I can add that the regulatory and stats people, you know, have hundreds under
their belt.
Including one this morning.
Yeah, exactly.
So a lot of experience has been brought in to make sure that, you know, we have the pieces
of the puzzle.
anotropic.
Yeah, Tropic.
Yeah, just a quick question, uh, regards to, I don't know if you'd be able to, uh, share this
because it might get a little, uh, I don't know, look technical, but, um, as far as when you said
there's about 20,000 cases and what have you, um, how do you guys account for either misdiagnosis
or no diagnosis at all? Because since this is so rare, I could just imagine in a lot of cases, especially around the world, I know, for instance, like the closer you get to the equator, anything that can't be diagnosed gets lumped in as gas.
I mean, that might sound funny, but it's the truth.
And they just treat it with some sort of tea.
of tea. So, I mean, all around the world, how do you get that data to necessarily, that might not
be the diagnosis, I guess you'd say, efficient as in the US and Europe? Yeah. So the answer is,
it's not good. And there's definitely more cases. And one of the things that will change,
you know, I know Lady Traders asked about this before. One thing that will change is AI
with regards to imaging. I think imaging is probably the best
use case for AI so far because it's very repeatable to, and the computers right now
are better than humans than the radiologists at diagnosing. So, you know, to the extent that you
can run these images through an AI simulator, a lot of these patients present with, you know, chronic knee pain,
right? And whoever is reading the images just doesn't think it's going to be cancer until it
grows over multiple scans. And then, you know, you've lost time, right? And, you know, in, you
know, 10 years down the road, you could imagine if you find it early and you give our therapy much better chance of you know a better outcome than amputation if things go the way we
expect them to go so I my answer would be over time the answer is yes there's
lots of misdiagnoses yes there's lots of late diagnoses and probably the the
best way that will hopefully be implemented at scale reasonably soon is
is AI I don't know paul
if you want to add anything to that well and yeah and and some uh really good testing hopefully
will come out and we can partner with them um but you know love to the industry would love to take credit for the incredible increase in good results with cancer
patients because of the therapies we're developing, but a lot of it has to do with earlier detection.
So obviously we want to find the patients as early as possible so we can be as successful
as we can be with our therapy. It's really good. Yeah, because i was just thinking about it just from the perspective i
just know so many people that have been treating like personally i know them they've been treating
something for literally years and then they find out like no that's not what you have that happened
to one of my aunts that happened to quite a few people i know in my circle so that's where that
question kind of sparked from but then the other question too is certain areas, for example, like on islands or smaller remote
areas, like we know where you're separated by deserts and so forth, you might find that it's
clumped together a lot more than even anticipated. And really, I think that number is going to go up.
At first, when you hear it's
like, oh, 20,000 per year, it seems like a small number. But you know, the more we have these
conversations and how the process works, that was my first thought. I'm like, I think it's a lot
higher number, actually. So I'm glad to hear that you guys think the same.
Yeah. Yeah, well, we know that a lot of the diagnoses come in late because there's already
metastasis. So there's no question that that's accurate. A lot of good pieces here. I think we
can maybe run into some final comments here in the next few minutes unless,
Gerald, is there anything we haven't touched on that you want to make sure we cover?
Is there anything we haven't touched on that you want to make sure we cover?
I think I heard something earlier on, you know, and, you know, we don't necessarily need to touch this.
But, you know, because this is a new class of immunotherapy, there ultimately will be other things that could be at, you know, you hear about Keytruda Plus all the time now as a PD-1, right?
We think, you know, as a new class of immunotherapy,
it's going to be the same thing. This is going to open up a lot of doors. So there will ultimately
be some things that are non-obvious where the opportunities are after this gets on the market.
So, you know, given the, you know, polypharma is the way things are going in cancer, and certainly HER2 continues to be a top target. The fact that
this is an entire new class of HER2 immunotherapy, you know, I think what's in the hands of a lot of
clinicians who know and understand how there is going to be a lot of additional use. So that
would be my only comment. And really, this being a new class of immunotherapies is really important.
I appreciate you doubling down on that.
Paul, any other topics that you would want to touch on that we haven't covered yet?
No, I think I just really appreciate your listeners.
And it's a really exciting time for us right now. And again, you know,
the stock was pushed down relatively synthetically last week.
And I see, you know, again, I'm often wrong. I'm married,
but I can see the stock growing steadily between now and, you know,
the FDA feedback and then God, FDA approval for these patients.
I appreciate you outlining the vision there. Going to check if there's any other final comments from
some of our panelists before I go to the two of you for, you know, more general final comments.
Tropic, you've obviously been very involved with this. Do you have any other final comments?
I just think there's a lot of material and um even today i just i just spent
a little time just catching up on some of uh the the i guess you say former press releases and
there were a couple in there that i didn't even realize that were there so i just think a lot of
cool things are happening right here and i highly recommend anyone just kind of hop on to the i guess
you would say this is what the the news and press release section of the website.
It's pretty well laid out.
So whoever your designer is, I commend you on that.
These guys have it pretty simplified.
You don't have to be a doctor of oncologists to actually read this stuff.
So I really appreciate that.
And I'm sure it will help out an oncologist, but I am not one.
So on that regard, I'm just excited again, just because
the mission that you guys have, being that it affects children, like anything that will make
a child's life better, like I'm 100% for it. I think that is just awesome. And each time I speak
to you guys, I just, I guess you'd say I get more bullish on hearing the mission, the progress that
you guys are making. So I just want to say congratulations. And, you know, it feels like
it's just the first lap of a marathon, but at the same time, you did make
it around that first lap. So kudos to you guys. And I think this is just awesome. And
I look forward to hearing, you know, a favorable outcome of the FDA meeting.
Awesome. Thanks, Tropic.
Great points there, Tropic. Lady Trader, did you have any other comments before we go to
the two of them for final thoughts?
No, I mean, just incredible project overall.
And I'm really glad that they are actually here and talking to us and for Wolf Team also to bring all of these opportunities to the table.
Because otherwise, I would not have heard about this project at all if it was not for Wolf Team.
So, that's incredible and definitely going to be a project that I'm going to be keeping an eye
on and hopefully investing in as well. And I think I'm just going to wait until the FDA approval,
but definitely something that I'm going to be getting some exposure to and great work overall.
And really happy to hear what you guys are doing.
Perfect. All right. Well, let's continue to them for final comments. Gerald, we'll come to you
first. Anything else that you'd like to share on here
I think you know the main thing we want to share is that
you know we laid out a path we're executing upon the path
while there are going to be challenges along the way we brought in the
necessary expertise with experience to get through them
they've already found a lot of ways for us to get through and save a lot of
money so that's taken a lot of ways for us to get through and save a lot of money.
So that's taken a lot of dilution risk off the table.
And, you know, we don't have some of these technical hedge funds in the story.
So as a result of that, we are in a much better technical position to be able to appreciate. And we think that, you know, as we de-risk and we get closer, those, you know, both de-risking and getting
closer will hopefully create some value. And we see if we do create the value you think we're
going to create, it could become an evergreen because now we have not just, you know, the one vector, we have all the vectors
and, you know, owning that intellectual property with the means to exploit it, which we would have
if we're successful with the first one, you know, really does create a generational opportunity.
So, you know, that's why I'm excited about OS. Certainly under Paul's leadership, I think he's very patient driven. And so if opportunities present themselves to enhance that without, you know, damaging the investment thesis, we're going to take them. But in the meantime, I'm, you know, I'm very, I feel very fortunate to have had this opportunity. And I think we can really execute and deliver on the process.
Yeah, I'll continue on the love test. I'm glad Gerald's on our team and everybody on our team has the passion and the level of passion that I do.
And it is patient centered and patience. Right. So, you know, we went public on August 1st. We've had some real dings through
the process, but luckily we raised the money when we could and we have enough money to get
through the FDA and some things that we needed to do. And I see the stock growing nicely and
I really appreciate the support that you and your listeners have given us. It's been great to have them
supporting us as we grow. Yeah, it's pretty cool. The community that you've
carved out here that really have an interest in this. And I think it's a value type of investing
in two ways, right? Value within price and value within the actual internal values that people have in what
they invest in and what they're looking to change in the world so we've said all this is uh do good
do well investment do good do well do good do well yeah i think it's a great way to put it
paul gerald thank you so much as always for coming on these spaces we appreciate you too
thank you to lady trader tropic lucas j, everyone that hung out on here as well. Appreciate all of you. All right. Thanks, everyone. Thanks. Okay. Take care.
Emp, I'm going to turn this one back over to you to close out.
Awesome. Great conversation. I always love hearing from the OS Therapy team, getting the updates
and following their journey here. I would say if you are interested, if it's something that piqued your interest a little bit, make sure you click that link up in the nest.
I've gone to it myself multiple times.
Every time I go here, I start reading, getting more educated on this.
And I think it's really great, some of the things that they're doing over there.
So big shout out to the OS Therapy team.
Big shout out to everyone that joined us
and tuned in throughout the last several hours of Spaces,
throughout the entire day of Spaces.
A quick shout out to that Wolf Trading account
that you see there giving the 100 symbol and the clapping.
Make sure you follow them.
We are doing live trading over there all day, every day.
And we will be live first thing in the morning
on that Wolf trading account for our
futures show at 8 a.m eastern bright and early maybe before the sun comes up for most of you i
know jordan and i will be uh up early before the sun getting started talking about futures early
because i'm flying out to new york i'm gonna oh that is right yeah so i'll be up into the airport
at like 3 30 my time in the morning.
So it's going to be a good one.
You have no excuse not to join then.
No excuse.
Unless you're on a plane.
Then that makes sense.
But either way, yeah, great first day of spaces this week.
We've got a ton lined up throughout the rest of the week.
Make sure you check out that calendar.
It is the pinned tweet on the Wolf Financial page.
And like I was saying, first thing in the morning, we'll be back with the future show,
which will roll straight into live trading all day.
All kinds of great stuff coming your way.
A lot of things coming.
A lot of big earnings this week as well.
So we'll talk about all of that throughout our different spaces.
Make sure you tune into all of those.
And we wish everyone a great rest of their Monday evening.
We will see you guys bright and early tomorrow morning. Take care, everyone. Thank you.
