What's up, honey wolf my man, how's it going today?
Good dude good a little bit of a lighter morning spend some time working out ready to get into the thick of things with the
Tesla talk to kick us off today, and I I was looking though a little bit at the stock market and
I saw Tesla putting in a good start to the morning. I think it might have retreated a little bit since
But it's back to being the eighth largest company in the world at this point
It is you know I think not putting in a free fall post earnings, which is good to see
It's bounced back up to 190 for area. I did snag some Tesla at 180
I'm happy with that buy so far and like Omar likes to say if it goes down more. I'll buy more
I feel like today. Oh by the way go for Betty. I was just gonna say it still feels like a discount now
Feel like today we could talk a little Tesla, but I would love to also talk a little bit of neural link if you're interested
First neural link has been implanted
Said the person who is recovering. I'm curious penny
Do you think that the person that they first tested a neural link implant on had some type of?
Deficiency or injury or something that they were trying to solve
At one point they had posted that they're recruiting people with quadriplegia and ALS
So I got an assume it comes from one of those two buckets
They mentioned also that the first product telepathy is basically phone or computer control
So that makes perfect sense for someone who's crud quadriplegic. I think that's probably what their first implant was
Yeah, I think that's pretty fair that would be my assumption as well not that I know too much about this stuff
But let's bring it back to Tesla for one second before we do dive into the other stuff
So Tesla obviously has their earnings out of the way
But should be a bit of an interesting week because we have a couple of major things happening
We have all the other mid mega cap tech earnings Jeff. I see an audience since you're a request
If we have all these other mid caps Eric earnings specifically today
Microsoft Google and AMD then you have Thursday
We have Apple Amazon and meta and then Wednesday you have an F1C meeting
These are all things that are gonna create volatility in the market and potentially of course move Tesla around as well
So there's there's back and forth, you know, there's a lot of headwinds to deal with is something that I would say right now for Tesla, right?
Stocks stock hasn't moved a ton over the the past
Year at this point if you go to the full trading year, they're up about eight point six percent last 365 days
Obviously still down about 22 percent year-to-date potentially getting a little bit of a bounce right here
There is I feel like some of the talk around
Cybertruck has calmed a little bit and I'd be curious to get people's thoughts
I feel like cyber truck was a very very hot topic that has calmed a little bit
And so there's a there's a few pieces certainly to kind of dig into there outside of that
Tesla right now is one of the top ten most oversold stocks on Wall Street
Per an article here on seeking alpha Tesla expects their capex betting to exceed ten billion dollars this year
That was per an article as well yesterday
So there's a few different things going on here, but Jeff perhaps I can start with you
latest updates and what's going on with Tesla in your eyes and especially some of the moves we're seeing post earnings and then
Any of these neuro link thoughts as well?
Hey, good morning, everyone. Good afternoon and where you are
Yeah, thanks for having me on and you know, it's been an interesting week. Obviously, I would say it's you know
in terms of Tesla earnings
In kind of you know brought now that you've had kind of almost a week to think through them
It's actually interesting because you saw, you know, BYD give preliminary guidance yesterday and
I guess they haven't given their full earnings, but it looks like potentially sequential
quarterly declines in profits, but you know for the full year they obviously grew profits pretty significantly and
For the year, which I found interesting. I mean, it's February on Thursday
Maybe they'll guide when they do their formal earnings
whenever that is, but I just found it interesting that we're going into February and
Still not guiding and I don't believe GM guided on units either. I could be wrong, but I believe they guided on units either
so it's kind of kind of a mixed bag, but it seems like the things that
You know Tesla was kind of really
under the microscope for which were
Leading up to earnings day and then the day of they actually did a really good job on on margins and they reduced
their cost structure faster than they reduced pricing and
Q4 and then for the you know, an annualized view. They're actually probably the best in industry and taking
their product cost structure down and
Probably not getting enough credit for that and it's you know, and also in retrospect we can probably look back on the last
Year, maybe now, you know year or so and say like wow, those are price corrections in the first four months of last year
No, COGS program will keep up with that. But you know for the last eight or nine months. They've been doing you know
price changes more commensurate with
Reduce their cost structure and you had some noise in q3 with it with the plant closures
But in general, I think they're they're kind of in this mode of writing the ship and really it's kind of looking ahead for Tesla
I mean, there's a range of possibilities, but it looks like at least GM is saying that the auto markets fairly stable
And in GM, he was even quoted that you know multiple sources they use for third-party
Estimates on forecasting EV growth have it at 50%
In the US, so there's a lot of conflicting signals
But I mean there is a play or there is a path where you know, Tesla grows volumes 10 to 20%
Maybe this year and they either stabilize or even improve
Their growth margins are certainly capable of it. They're certainly wired that way that certainly organized that way their company culture
Their approach to minimizing costs. I don't believe it's the end of
Price reductions at point of sale of it'll be interesting to see, you know
Will they do them now and commensurate with their cogs broken which they what they really have been doing?
also, what will happen as rates start to subside and what will that mean for
You know demand on autos demand on EVs and so forth. So I think there's a just a number of I
Think I think there's a path. There's a path of like, oh the
Grow volumes pretty well and you know better than really anything else out there intact outside of
You know h100 hardware though. It'll grow faster than anything if you look at the other mega cap still though there
In fact, I think every mega cap is is single-digit growth
Except for meta and for Nvidia and Tesla. We'll see how the others report. Obviously, they're all gonna report
So so yeah, I think with a little bit of time
You can kind of like you can look back and say alright. Well, there's some things they probably could do better
You know, but the the path ahead, you know, there's a there could be a decent path ahead bridging them to the next set of vehicles
Which is pretty exciting in terms of what they're working on and just finally on a neuro link
I just I mean there's we could probably have an entire
Show on this. It's it's amazing what the impact this could have on lives is is is really it'll be speechless for people
You know once they're actually able to get it, you know functional and and working to you know intended spec
I think the the opportunity is immense and that you know, the neuro link team should be applauded for their efforts. Thanks
You know while you were talking it just gets me thinking a conversation. I've been having with people is this
progression of FSD as well and I was having a conversation even this
This weekend with friends and my opinion is next three years. We're really going to see this move forward
I think that's you do AI training. I think it's due to other areas and I just always get immense pushback
People say oh, it's not gonna happen that maybe a decade right where cuz I'm just I'm like
I'm not going to buy a car until that car could drive me no interest in buying a car having to drive it and so
Again, I just get a ton of pushback on this and I'm curious to get thoughts from the panel as to maybe timeline here expectations
Do we see a really rapid?
Growth and the reason why I think that I may be right is because most of them don't even know
What is out there ready? Like when I tell them Omar about your videos like yep, I'm watching I'm watching it
Do's not driving. It's going through San Fran. It's raining. There's there's you know
people running out in the streets with their crack pipes and it's it's not hitting them and
You know, it's it's like they just don't even know that this stuff exists
So maybe Omar I can pose it to you
Like what is your vision on the timeline here to a true, you know, I can go buy a thirty thirty five thousand dollar car and
Not have to think about driving
Well, if honestly and this is just my personal opinion I think you should start saving up
because it might be time for you to buy a car soon and
You know here in SF we have driverless cars
They work amazingly well, you know, you can literally call a driverless ride and have it take you anywhere and it just works
So most people are still in this and actually, you know, I see Chuck in here when he came I called him away
Mo we took a ride together. We took a ride with FSD and
You know, it really is an incredible experience anytime anyone comes to San Francisco
I say I got to give you your first driverless ride and then of course with full self driving beta
Which by the way, I got the full self driving beta 12 the all-new end-to-end system from Tesla and it's a massive leap forward
I was just thinking yesterday in the Waymo Wow, they're actually sort of surpassing Waymo in some ways
Not in the reliability of the ride in terms of the number of takeovers
But in the smoothness in the comfort, they're actually overtaking Waymo and you can see okay. Wow this end-to-end
Framework they haven't completely delivered on it, but it just shows incredible promise with this first build
So, I mean, I think autonomy is basically a certainty at this point. It's been proven that it can be done
the challenge is really now
scaling a global business and
Obviously taking the softer to the level where that can happen
so, I mean, I think Tesla
just has an incredible amount of potential and
Overall, I mean are things perfect? No things are never perfect, but overall
things are going extremely well
insane amount of negativity
Around Tesla right now. It kind of reminds me of when I got into covering the company around 2018 2019
When I first got my Model 3 and you had all these short sellers you had a shortened to store you had people
You know from the fossil fuel industry or the legacy auto industry for one reason or another
All just kind of shitting on the company and it feels a lot like today, honestly
This sort of peak negativity, you know shareholders losing their mind because the stock price is going down
Everyone has these genius management ideas when the stock price goes down
And is it you know that they had some insight or is there maybe a little bit of emotion going on here?
But peel back the emotion and you see some pretty incredible things happening. You see an electric car
Best-selling car in the world officially confirmed yesterday with Toyota sales numbers coming out
despite being several times more than the Corolla they outsold it and
Next year they're putting into production their next-gen platform
Which is gonna be you know, have a vehicle that's a compact crossover for twenty five thousand dollars
So that's supposed to start production second half of next year. Let's say it slips into 2026 whatever
That's still an incredible timeline
They're talking about shipping the first units of optimus next year
that one probably seems even less likely than shipping the next-gen platform, but
Again, even if they do it in 2026, we're talking about a humanoid robot here with AI
so a lot of people really misunderstand Tesla
They're overly focused on
Okay, what's the auto business doing?
The goal right now shouldn't really be to just maximize earnings and milk the customer base
But actually expand the market as quickly as possible and despite a number of headwinds. They've continued to grow
They're gonna continue to grow this year
Eevees are taking off like crazy around the world. There's no denying it even though you have a huge media narrative
Because of regulatory sort of tightening and things like that that Eevees Eevees are slowing
Consumers aren't liking them
but the sales data really
You look at what's happening with FSD 12 with optimus with the next-gen platform
They've really got an insanely
exciting roadmap going forward
This is not a company that is an auto company or is really just going to continue making cars
This is really one of the most innovative tech startups we have in America and it just so happens that really
Sort of problem that they tackled their first sort of impossible problem was that we need to
Redo the energy infrastructure of the world
move to clean energy move to electric vehicles and
That's been a resounding success. They've changed the industry. They've created the best-selling car in the world and it happens to be electric and
They're working on other things, too
I mean the energy storage business is growing like crazy. The AI business is growing like crazy
I mean you look at just must companies in general they
do things that are just really on the edge if possible and
That's what I see them doing just driving driven FSD 12 for the first time this break new break through a new version of FSD
I mean you look at these companies
SpaceX did two rocket launches from the East Coast and the West Coast on the same night. They took people to space
50% of the satellites in space were put there by SpaceX and Elon Musk
Yesterday we found out that they've implanted a brain computer interface in a person, you know
Think like a Stephen Hawking type person. They now have the ability to type to move a cursor
When they didn't have that ability before I mean, this is like, you know, Jesus stuff here giving sight to the blind
That kind of stuff. This is the technology they're actually building and it really is like an AI company to what Neuralink does
Essentially is use AI and deep learning to parse your brainwaves
so I mean these teams are doing
Incredible things and it's really easy to get caught up in the narrative get caught up in the negativity
Everybody's saying Tesla's horrible all the time. Elon Musk is horrible
He had this political tweet and I'm offended and they're just throwing all this, you know
all these smears that Tesla and Elon constantly and it's you know hard not to be
Moved by that even if you really understand these things, it's hard not to be caught up in all the negativity
Mean at the end of the day. They are just doing incredible things incredibly hard problems and
You know, although the narrative says okay, this guy's an idiot. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's horrible
You look at the extent of what they're actually doing
Launching into space at a pace. We've never seen before in human history
building brain computer interfaces
Making millions of cars on the road
Drive themselves with just cameras
You know, I think the stock is starting to look pretty cheap. It's grown. It's grown into its value immensely
to have a company with this kind of gross trajectory head
trading at 42 times trailing earnings, I
It's kind of a great opportunity. And I don't know. I'm not necessarily saying it's bottom. Maybe it'll go lower
Very different situation for when the company was at a trillion-dollar valuation and trading at a thousand times trailing earnings
Now the business has grown immensely
But the stock hasn't so it's like Ron Barron says we look at the business not the stock price
does it really matter for the business if their valuation is
700 billion or 500 billion
Not really last year. We had a big drop to 113
I bought some shares did it really impact the company? No
Actually, there are some good sides for the company. They can give equity grants for the employees
The employees can make more money than if the stock hadn't fall
You know healthy correction can be good. I think but a lot of this
Emotion that's come out of this correction. I think as blinded people
To how incredible things are really going with the EV
Revolution, you know take the stock out of it. Forget yet. You're an investor and just look at what's happening and
We would be really excited about low-cost affordable EVs taking over the world growing every year
even in economically hard times
Everybody's too busy crying to realize that
Cyber truck out we have FSD 12 out and we have a pretty incredible roadmap. I think going into this year and next
That was fantastic, I love the Jesus part
But yeah, no, I I'm really hoping timeline next year or two if it happens this year that will be awesome for me
Let's go over to a couple others on the panel Ryan. What have you been looking at in the world of Tesla FSD newer link?
Yeah, hey wolf. Thanks for having me on as usual. I'm extremely excited about the future of Tesla. I
Didn't get a chance to go through the earnings call yet. So I don't have really like updated
information on what Tesla's doing
But I've been following Norlin closely for a while now
This is really the biggest announcement the company has made
since the company was started
Basically, they they've announced that they've implanted the first chip into a human's brain
Two days ago and it appears that they're recovering well
The this is super meaningful for this person but also for
like the entire medical community and
Eventually, it's gonna be impactful for what like every everybody every human
One of the reasons I started following the company was because I was so inspired by their ability to help
cure and solve these neurological problems
this very first problem that they're working on helping address is a
Paralyzed patient like like Omar said a paralyzed patient would be able to
control a computer with just their mind
and and that computer could be
In actually, it's not just a computer. It could be any digital device
This is meaningful because it provides a level of freedom to that person that they didn't formerly have
Most of us take for granted that we can use a computer. We can use our phones
And we have access to this entirely new
You know, this person does not have access to
You like just imagine if we could not watch TV we couldn't watch YouTube we couldn't engage with others on
At least for me my life would be substantially more lonely
And it it wouldn't be as entertaining
And it's not like this person didn't have any access to that before but now they have
And getting information to and from the computer
And this is also impactful for their close family and friends because now caretakers
You know assist them with interacting with their devices with their digital devices
before somebody might have to that person might have to
Letters to like type on a computer now. They'll be able to just think
what they want to what they want to type or
what they want to search and
It'll it'll be much faster
Neuralink is gonna work on addressing blindness and then and providing a digital or a visual prosthesis for
That's that's much tougher than what they're currently doing because that requires
Like but that requires both reading what the brain signals are and also stimulating
Neural signals versus right now. They're just reading neural signals
right now helping paralyzed people
Use a computer and then after that
Some forms of blindness and then after that
I think the next likely application is helping with hearing loss and then after that it's a myriad of
Neurological disorders that they're gonna work to solve like depression
Helping people who have had seizures
Helping prevent seizures or or or detecting seizures in live time and
Addressing those and then also helping with strokes
And just so many more so, you know, this is
The company that I view is doing them the most
positive and inspiring work
Out there like I I mean, I love Tesla. I love SpaceX, but I
think when Neuralink is doing is is extremely inspiring and I'm excited for the future of
All their implantations coming down the road
Ryan we've seen Neuralink working in chimps already playing the pong game
You know eating the the banana milkshakes or whatever
How long do you expect now that they've implanted in a human before they're able to you know
use that telepathy product and and get better bandwidth
Control of a phone or a PC than what they're able to do now
Can you clarify penny how much longer do I think it's gonna be until more people are able to use it
No, not more people. So now they've they've implanted in a human
But I assume that you know, the software is not exactly the same as it would be for the chimps
Do you expect that they need to retrain it?
Do you think as soon as he's healed they're gonna have him hooked up to a phone and you know making the first x-posts
With no hands or like what do you think the timeline looks like for that? I
From from what I understand it's actually
The quite similar there there's there's not a big difference
If if any really like, you know different different animal model
Like a human is is an animal and it's a different animal model compared to
Like a rat first at first they implanted in a rat
2018 I believe and then after that was
pigs and sheeps or pigs and sheep and and monkeys
That demonstration that they showed in
With pager like playing that video game pong
That that same tech is is gonna be used for this paralyzed person
Once I don't know what the healing time is, but once
They should be able to to use a computer on their on their own
This is the first one I think later this year they'll probably do
Next year it it should be more that they should be able to
Get approval for like an additional
Stimulation rather than just recording the neural signals
That's like a whole next level of unlocked potential if they're able to stimulate new neural activity
It's got a couple other voices in here to Larry
What have you been looking at in the world of Tesla and early Elon and of course the kind of follow-up from?
Yeah, a bunch of things firstly a little bit of late-breaking news that
SpaceX have launched the sickness
Resupply to the space station to just a few minutes ago. In fact about 15 minutes ago
big milestone guys because you know sickness was
by Northrop Grumman, they used a
They used a rocket that was built out of
Ukraine and Russian components they had to find in a very short time a
SpaceX did whatever engineering was necessary and it was relatively little to be able to accommodate the sickness and it flew today
within like nine months of the call for it and
Which is amazing really because you know, it just shows the adaptability of the company and by the way
This was the 10th launch of the year
Which actually is one or two launches short of what shy of what?
SpaceX was really aiming for they're looking to
to really get their their
the total of like a hundred and
One hundred and thirty three launches this year, so they needed one or two more
But they'll make it up and you know whole Mars said they're nearly fifty percent
They're over fifty percent of the satellites in orbit right now. Actually, that's that's old news
They're actually over sixty percent well over sixty percent of all satellites in the sky right now
Think there I think the total Starlink
5,000 in orbit so that definitely puts them over the 60% mark anyway enough about SpaceX news
I was looking at the 10k from the end of the year just to understand it certain basher
Some analysis that shows a very significant portion of the energy revenue is held back
by agreements under which the customer pays
For the installation upon certain milestones those milestones are generally the interconnect
And then the proof that the battery is performing according to
analysis I can do indicates to me that
two-thirds of the revenue
sometimes closer to 80% of the revenue
On the contract and that those holds are paid off generally over three years
There was a contract which actually is going to earn over a 25 year period, but that's a portion of profits
That I think was the Australian implementation several years ago. I don't think we've seen a repeat of that
anyway, so I've done some analysis based upon
That analysis is extremely interesting
has been somewhat disappointed with
Margins on energy because they expected much higher margins on energy and so far the margins have been ministered
So if you look at 2022 the megapack margins if you break down the earnings on
The earnings on megapack were minuscule about two hundred and eighty eight million in 2023
The year just ended the best analysis I can do
Shows that contribution to profit for the year was less than a billion dollars, which is you know trivial
And it's only 16 percent margin and that's because of the hold on on payments
But if you do the analysis what's really interesting is if you
growing capability of the megapack factory and then you layer in
the Chinese megapack factory coming online and allow for
Payment in China, although I believe the interconnects will come dramatically faster in China
But if you if you pose that very very conservative view
2024 we should see a four billion dollar contribution
From megapack and that will only be megapack in the US and that four billion dollar contribution
Represents what they'll deliver from this year, but also from what came from 2023 and 2022
That contribution will climb to ten billion ten billion dollars in
16 billion dollars based upon 80 percent
capacity 80 percent production of capacity in both China and the US and
taking into account payments that
fall into that year from prior years and
16 billion dollars is a gross margin of 46 percent
Now that 46 percent gross margin seems ridiculous
But you have to realize that
Contributing to that 46 percent are prior years gross margins that have been reserved
What looks like a trickle is going to be a flood and a very significant flood just to put 16 billion dollars into
Perspective it's more than the auto
Segment is delivering in gross margin today. So
I'm going to post that in X today at the graph with it and with the analysis
So I thought that would be interesting
Yeah, that'd be great would love to see that did anybody have comments on that I thought I heard someone on you
Okay, no worries, I mean I definitely would appreciate that if you do post it during the space we're free to pin it up
Meli who we haven't heard from yet and we can circle back around with the panel Meli. Did you have some comments you wanted to share?
Yeah, I mean near a link the
The new trial that has happened. I do find that really fascinating
So I'm really curious to see what the results are of that bit. I was also glad that Omar mentioned
What I'm most curious about at the moment, especially with the advances in AI
Because if I do get a chance to build what I want to build
I'll probably need robots to run it. So we'll see if that's optimus. We'll see how things go and if I can actually
I mean, I'd probably have to start a company for it. So I don't know if the future is
entail that but we'll see
What are you building that needs robots?
Okay, it might sound like a pipe dream, but it's not I know that I can build it and I know that it will
work, but I believe that I can
Restore the ozone layer on Mars
That indeed would need robots yes, you're correct
So we'll say I'd look, you know, I'm gonna keep trying
don't have the resources that I need yet, but
I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued definitely keep us in the loop on that one
So I'm curious, you know penny. I'll double back to you for a second
Felt like cyber truck was the big topic now Nora links the big topic
What are some of the other big things you think we'll be paying attention to this year?
Well, Mellie said it for me, it's optimus
That's the one that I'm gonna keep going back to you no matter what so I think the cyber truck is also super exciting
I can't wait to get mine. I can't wait to go on a drive. I can't wait till it has FSD
I can't wait to try version 12 of FSD
There's so many different things. I think this year. I'm really looking forward to the
$25,000 car and news on that news on the new factories being built
But it doesn't matter any of that because when I think about what changes the world the most
It's it's a fully autonomous
Humanoid robot something like that changes the entire labor game
It changes the entire economy and I've seen really really impressive
Advancements in the videos that they're just casually dropping about optimus over the past six months
I think you know in the 12 months from now
We have a lot to look forward to in terms of new capabilities
And I don't know that they're gonna be mass manufacturing them or that they're gonna be you know selling them just yet
But I'd be shocked if we don't have a highly capable bot that they're showcasing doing really useful things in the next year
That for me, I think is always gonna steal my attention no matter what else is going on
I'm sorry. What was the question?
What do you think are like they felt like the Cybertruck was the most hyped topic and now that's kind of transferring over to
Neuralink and other areas you think could kind of step up and also be some of the most hyped topics of 2024 for Tesla
Well, I mean I'm super excited about the Cybertruck customer deliveries have started now
I think it's been kind of slow so you saw kind of an initial wave of people putting in orders
But we haven't seen delivery set that same pace unfortunately and hopefully it ramps up
But the people who have it are like man. This is an amazing vehicle. I just had someone say hey
I'm from Palos Verdes. I saw you making some videos there
I got a Cybertruck come over and check it out, and I'm thinking man
I need to actually drive down there and check out this Cybertruck
So I mean I think the Cybertruck is a really important vehicle much more than people thought
You cannot transition North America to EVs without a truck and there was no high-volume electric truck option
this is going to be a high-volume electric truck option and
Looking at Ford cutting production of the f-150
Looking at Rivian shifting production really to the R1s and to their R2 platform
I think that Cybertruck is going to be the best-selling electric truck, and it's just incredible
I don't think people really expected it to be positioned at the top of Tesla's lineup
Where it's actually more expensive than the Model S more expensive than the Model X at least right now
They're selling it for a hundred thousand dollars or a hundred twenty thousand dollars and the price of that's expected to come down
But they said on the earnings call that they're already practically sold out for the year of 2024
with this hundred thousand dollar
Foundation series variant that has you know it's sort of fully loaded
That is all the options all the accessories
Tesla is has become an amazing low-cost manufacturer making cars for the everyday person
I'm sitting here with my roommate. He's about about to buy a Model I actually
Getting one for under forty thousand dollars with the point of sale credit for a long range, which is just an incredible deal
But they are also really good at making these very high-end cars and getting people to spend a hundred thousand dollars on them
And I think they're really tapping into that here
so especially as they ramp especially as the
Cash flow starts to become more positive going into the end of this year 2025
I think people are really going to be surprised by the impact of this product not only on
Just how much it changes the truck market, which is the bread and butter of american legacy automakers
But how it really gives tesla
an opportunity to really sell
A new flagship of the lineup to so many customers were model 3 buyers model y buyers
Maybe they bought a model s back in the day
And a lot of them are buying the cyber truck. I mean, it's just an awesome vehicle. It's a tesla, but it's a truck
It's got the utility of a truck
But it drives like a sports car. It's got things like steer by wire that make it more maneuverable than any other truck
So I definitely think people are really gonna fall in love with this thing as they see them out there and they experience it
They sit in it. They're gonna like it and they're gonna think hey, wait, maybe I do want an eevee
I thought I was a truck guy, but maybe I want an eevee
So the most important thing is going to be getting them out there
They get them out there people are gonna fall in love, you know, they go. Oh, it's ugly online. You see it in person
It's just like this beautifully simple form, you know, it's really like nothing else you've seen. It's really striking
No one's upset or calls it ugly in person. They just can't believe what they're seeing. They're like wow
That really is it looks out of this world
So I think it's just really an incredible product for tesla
I think it's definitely generating a halo effect getting people in the stores getting people into the website
But the most important thing is really going to be for them to ramp up production
If they can do that if they can get a lot of units out there
Then it's just gonna you know, supply is really the only constraint here. They're so far below what the demand is
I mean, they got two million orders for this thing that um
the big question is really how many can they make
And 46 80 cells body production everything is everything up to speed
Um, and I hope they ramp up. I mean i'm waiting I placed an order in december for a cyber truck
And i'm still waiting for a vin. So hopefully they get that out to me in february or march
Okay, so still a lot of attention on cyber truck that's definitely fair molly I saw you were requested up on stage
Do you some comments to share here?
Yeah, actually my view is quite opposite
Uh, I think I don't see tesla cyber truck as a average american family
Own vehicle the reason why i'm saying that maybe model why uh, it did excellent
Expendably well, but cyber truck is something like a collectible item
Uh, I think people who are like passionate about the cars and stuff
Uh would have it and it's like uh keeping stuff in the museum for your own fun
Uh, that's what what I look at. But if you look at like average american family
Uh, they're look they're more into looking into like buying a van
That like fits about eight people people with kids
Those are the average american people if you're looking to expand revenue like significantly. I highly
doubt that cyber truck will do that great as compared to model y
But I mean, obviously everyone has a different point of view, but that's just my opinion
You got any thoughts on that omar
Yeah, I don't think it's a museum piece or
A collector's item. I think they intend for this to be a mass produced vehicle
At you know 250 000 or more units a year
I think it's absolutely going to be a material part of the truck market
It's going to be the best selling electric truck
And trucks are a huge segment here. You look at the number one two and three best selling vehicles in the u.s
Which isn't to say minivans aren't awesome
I mean, I love me a great minivan and i'm sure there's still going to be a market for minivans, too
But the fact is if you wanted a truck
There was no electric option just a few years ago
And then we got for example the ford f-150 lightning. We got the rivian r1t
Great products. Everybody who has them has a lot of good things to say about them
They have some limitations, but they've you know, they really see the promise of electric trucking
And they just haven't been produced in very high quantities
So they haven't made that much of a dent on the market
Right ford has sold many more gas powered f-150s than electric ones
while tesla's only making the cyber truck and electric
And they're going to produce it in sufficient volume that
I think it will start to become as common of a site as a model 3
As crazy as that sounds today when it's kind of this rare thing. It kind of feels like a collector's item
But their intention is not for this to be a collector's item or a limited edition
Their intention is really to make this a very high volume product
Yeah, i'd love to see it in person i'm kind of
Waiting on the day hopefully sooner than later where I can kind of get a feel for
Exactly what it looks like because it does seem like it's a big attraction in person
One area which i'm curious about I wonder if test is going to pursue this at all
I feel like we haven't gotten too many updates on the semi
That my goal is once they have the semi that they start making some rvs
Then I can get myself driving rv and then that can just take me wherever i'd like to go and then I don't really have to
Worry about all the rest of these things
Um jeff any updates on the semi or some of the other trucks or stuff like that that they're working on
Yeah, I mean they have a series of development efforts going around
You know number one they've got to build the factory and you know, that's going full steam ahead
There's postings now for basically hiring
manufacturing line than the full mass production line
So, you know that'll take a couple months for those resources to be
On boarded so I I do anticipate them
You know getting a line set up in production
Uh started this year and I believe uh large has also commented on that who's their uh,
Their vp of engineering. He's also commented
Uh in similar, you know getting production set up by the end of the year
So that makes sense and uh, I think it's gonna be exciting product technically it continues to
You know to you know to to do the job and and meet some, you know, some long endurance challenges
and uh once the charging infrastructure
You know is in place so it can do some decent routes between you know, major states and points it'll it'll I think it'll scale
Nicely, but this is one of those things that where the infrastructure has got to scale
With the product and they've got to get the factory
Um up and and spinning which should be by the end of this year
Got it. Yeah, I think there's a lot of confusion about the semi they kind of
Uh pepsico free delay and pepsi
And they gave them some trucks. They said hey, look
Let's kind of see where these are at. Can you help help us test them?
Let's put them through real world use cases
But you guys will install a charger at your facility
Because we're still building out a lot of these, uh chargers for the semi that they're going to need
So we'll just put it put it up at your facility you guys drive between your own facilities
It's kind of the perfect use case
And they've been helping them kind of
Validated on a on a pre-mass production basis really make sure everything's looking good. Make sure it fits their use cases
And the results have been really encouraging what they've said is basically
We can use these just like our diesel trucks
We can you know, we have days where we drive
over a thousand miles in this thing because we just plug it in while we're loading and unloading and
By charging during the day while we're loading and unloading it which by the way, you can't really do with diesel
We're able to drive as much as we need we can use it just like a diesel truck
So I think those results are pretty encouraging
If you look at independent testing data where they looked at the tesla they looked at for example, I think it was the dimler
Uh battery electric truck and the nikola and other trucks
The tesla just mopped the floor with all of them
And particularly in the fast charging capability
It's really good on fast charging and the other trucks don't really have good fast charging
Which shouldn't be a surprise given, you know tesla's expertise in fast charging
So now the product looks good. It's finally time
To actually get the production line up and running and they've just recently I think in the last week or two broken ground on
So I think that's going to be super exciting to see this really enter
You know volume production. I mean not volume production initially
But just have the production facility be built and have production officially start not like a few prototype units or you know
production intent units, but actually having the production line running and uh people using them
Then alongside that they're going to really have to start building out a lot of charging infrastructure across the country
So that people can take their semis and drive around just like you can with the tesla supercharger network
So honestly, this is probably one of the products i'm most excited about
When you look at the emissions a semi-truck generates, it's absolutely disproportionate
It's like taking several cars off the road
Because not only are these things much bigger and heavier and generating more emissions, but they're on the road all the time
Given that they're commercial vehicles whereas your personal car, you know is is parked most of the time
And as you know, you mentioned I think the potential of fsd
And the semi I don't expect it to have
Fsd on day one. I don't think it has fsd right now
But the framework for them to drive the vehicle the same way
Is there and I mean the commercial opportunities?
Are probably several times larger than the even the rideshare opportunities
So I think that's absolutely huge when you look at this sort of intelligence they're developing
To move around the world and you look at the products they have to really leverage it
It's a pretty strong product portfolio to really I think squeeze the most value out of that. Um
That ai system they've developed even ahead of anybody else licensing the system
Yeah, i'd like to just add a little bit to that
Um are the um, I I wrote a post some actually a year or two ago
About the semi market and and how it breaks down in terms of short
medium and long uh range uh travel
And what was ideal for the tesla semi in its current form?
Not not to say that it can't evolve into new forms, but the market is extremely large
For the short haul it probably is the single largest market in volume
My estimate is that it's a 200 billion dollar market and ivy is
a 20 percent of year a 20 percent
Share of that market would yield about a 40 billion dollar per annum at tesla margins
That that could be uh, you know close to 12 billion per annum to the bottom line
It's not a small market. It's actually a very large market even compared to the um
to the vehicle market, so
You know variants that could be built off that off that base unit, but the current base unit the day
You know the day cab with its current range
It it the market is gigantic and and that's without fsd. That's without any other addition
So I I think that there's a huge huge future
They just have to make sure that you know
The the product that they deliver is the product that the market needs and looks like they've done that with you know
And uh, I I expect that this is going to come on very quickly
Yeah, the other interesting regulatory aspect of this is that the federal government is giving a 40
Uh, I think it's a income tax credit for anyone who purchases one of these things
so the math for fleets is
If your use case can be served by this
You know forty thousand dollar subsidy plus a lower
Total cost of ownership lower fuel costs
The math starts to add up
Yeah, yeah, and my calculation is based on you know
The actual the price of the semi that we anticipate rather than the price of the semi less the um
What the u.s. Government is going to hand you in cash. So it's an amazing deal amazing deal
Good points guys can do another three four minutes here. I've definitely found this one interesting
There's so many different people that have such different timelines here
And I think you're right as well more when you said this is just a heavily persecuted company. I think people they like to hate to hate
Most people that i've talked to that do hate have never actually driven a tesla themselves
Uh, and i've never even been in a tesla often which happens as well
So I do encourage people to actually test out the product. Oh by the way wolf
Yeah, while you mentioned it there is a cyber truck down in the meat packing district if you want to go it's at uh
Washington street 860 washington street. So go check that out
Oh, yeah, I will be in nyc this friday
So I will uh, maybe maybe have time to take a look. I don't know i'm running around like a chicken
My head cut off this friday. I've got to go to the nyc and got to go to a bunch of other places
I'll make sure to walk around letting everyone know that, you know tesla tesla is a goodbye once i'm at the new stock exchange
We'll see. We'll see. Maybe they'll take my word for it
And then I would say we talked about some of the other big topics that are coming up
And I think that there's still a big halo around here
I guess the last question i'll throw at umr before my next base and that is how does all this fit together?
There's tesla. We just talked spacex. Do they all are they all symbiotic? Are they all separate? What's your opinion?
Well, they're all separate, you know most of these ventures are
You know, maybe there could be some giant roll up in the future or something. I don't know but
Right now I think it sort of makes sense the way it is, but they're united by a theme
They're united by a ceo obviously
But they're also united by a theme which is
Do the things that are on the edge of impossible?
But are actually just barely possible and
Get some really smart engineers together and get them to solve it
Whether it's you know building a brain computer interface
building a robot that can move around the world
You know building a reusable rocket
So I think that's kind of the theme in between them all and you know, it's amazing what we can do
It's like uh bringing sci-fi to reality is the theme right taking humanity into the future whether it be
Robotics all these things. Uh, I think it's working towards a common goal of like making the future better
That's where I see the symbiosis, but I think definitely it makes sense as omar said with uh companies at very different stages in their development
To keep them separate for the near future at the very least
It's kind of like what elon said in that one interview, uh with with the ted founder
Like he's just trying to do
Good work and and make the future inspiring and and more positive like all of his companies are
Yeah, I just want to say while I agree with uh the fact that it's
The right time to keep these companies separate the one area I think that
integrating a portion of the company
uh is I've proposed that um
SpaceX could spin off starlink into or not spin off but allow starlink to ipo
with about 25 to 30 percent of its uh equity
On the public markets and transfer a portion of its equity 20 to 25 percent
To tesla for an issue of tesla stock that would give spacex
Um sufficient stock that with uh
With elon's uh stock holding off tesla plus his control over spacex would give him that 25 percent control
Uh without a watering down tesla stock and without watering down
taking into account that it intended to um
ipo starlink anyway in a year's time, so I think that would be
A good possibility because I think starlink has a good
Fit with tesla. I think tesla
And starlink could we could make a very good story
For how the two could work together
And that would you know, I think that would be a degree of combination that would be of
Would be fruitful for elon and for the community
spacex shareholders and tesla shareholders
I love how you got creative with how to come up with that 25 of the voting share larry
Is that an original idea or yeah or something that you came up with with others? No, no
Yeah, that's one of the better ones i've heard. I love it. Yeah, it's an original idea. I posted it about a two weeks ago
But it seemed to me the natural solution to the puzzle of trying to give
Elon control without diluting stock
and and in any case they intended to do an ipo of starlink and this would be I think a very creative use of the
and and remember that the the tesla stock that spacex would get
Would be very valuable for the mars mission in future years because tesla is going to be a cash machine
In about five to ten years
I mean a massive cash machine in five to ten years and that would definitely contribute to the
Mission to mars. So I I think it just fits very well together
Okay, uh, we did run a little bit past 1 p.m. Eastern here. I do got another check coming up
Uh, I was waiting for a couple more speakers
But I think we're just going to start with yasino
But real quick to my tesla crew jeff larry ryan penny meli at zario joined up
Sorry, I didn't get time zario try to get you up on the beginning of the next one
And of course omar who was coasting up here. What a great crew as always you guys always get me hyped
And let's see if we can get this turnaround in the stock get back to green on the year
Let's see what else will happen we're in it for the long term. All right. Thanks guys. Appreciate all of you
We're going to roll into my next topic now and there we go. We've got both speakers up for now. Yasino
How's it going by you? Hey there. I'm doing well. Thank you very much for having me
Absolutely. Absolutely. So for the audience
Taking a little trip down tech lane, which should be perfect for all those people coming in
From the tessa side of things i'm sure that you are all fans of the world of tech
We're talking about secure digital markets here with the secure digital markets team
So by the way real quick, this is canada's leading digital assets brokerage
They offer otc trading liquidity lending settlements big company a lot of partnerships doing some cool stuff
Bringing them in for a chat here. So to all my people that are tesla fans and you like tech
I think this is going to be right up your alley. So with that being said
We're going to talk a little bit here and just get right into it. So
To the team yasino you want to just jump in for a quick second?
Give a quick intro of yourself before we get to some of these details. Yeah for sure
Um, so yeah, my name is yasino i'm part of the uh, i'm one of the sales traders
here at secure digital markets, uh, we're crypto tc des 3 specializing in uh
crypto training mostly for institutional clients
Uh, so we're trading spot markets. We also have the nc trading derivatives markets. Uh, we have a massive management arm
Uh, so we're really helping, you know, very large institutions get in and out of the crypto space
traditional finance as a research analyst at first
government bonds a couple years kind of got
Uh tired of that and uh, I joined uh dark side in the crypto industry a couple years ago and
Everyone has uh, I appreciate everybody's uh time and joining us today
Um, so i'm ashita one of the co-founders here at stm
A lot of uh operations on a day-to-day basis and uh officially a ton of sales and trading
Uh, so we're can and hammer these in on a daily basis
um, and uh, it's it's quite a delight to see the market do what it's currently been doing and
And all the hype and attention that we're currently seeing um, the adoption certainly lends itself to a more robust market
and I think that uh overall we have been uh
We've been fortunate to see the shifting tides in the market, uh over the last few years
So i'm excited to uh to jump into that
Perfect. All right. So little year interview here Bitcoin was up 155 in 2023
And the question of the alask is are we in a bull market?
Well secured digital markets did some great interviews with bitwise bloomberg and a bunch of others
As well as they provide exclusive coverage of this whole etf approval process that we just saw with the spot Bitcoin etf
Trading and on-chain deep dives
So let's talk a little bit about some of these interviews because these are big pieces, right?
And we're all talking. Hey, are we going into this bull market area?
So you spoke to bitwise about their etf?
Were there any interesting data points about institutional adoption?
And why is you know your company the one that's going out and conducting these interviews?
Yeah, it was definitely interesting to uh, interview, you know bitwise, uh bloomberg and all these other, uh companies
Um bitwise specifically because uh the one of the issuers of these, uh, bitcoin etfs, right?
It was really interesting to see what they had to say
Um, I think we all knew that a lot of financial advisors out there. Uh, we're looking to
Allocate allocate crypto on behalf of the clients, but I think around 20 percent. Uh, we're just not able to do so, right?
Despite the 90 percent of financial advisors, you know having clients that were really interested in investing in cryptocurrency, right?
So I think the the introduction of these etfs are really a big deal because they're finally allowing
a very you know big amount of um
More, you know clients from a more regulated route to enter the markets
Uh, and that's going to be you know, a very big deal in a long in a long run
So for the longest time and if you look at surveys from multiple different banks, uh, it's been I think at least
Uh that these clients have been really asking for you know, crypto products a lot of you know
clients a lot of investors out there that are entering the product are really interested in acquiring a digital wallet and um
And they just you know, they're just not really used to it. So I think there's definitely a lot more work
Uh on that side to make it more user friendly for people so buying an etf straight from your uh brokerage is just something that's
Makes a lot easier for most people to kind of just enter the industry. So
Definitely a lot of a lot of positive feedback
so far and we definitely see uh this uh growing further and we definitely think that with time with the promotion of this
Bitcoin etfs is definitely just going to gain more and more adoption
Perfect. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think that these etfs were definitely moving the right direction
Um, I was talking a lot with hashtags
If you're familiar with them when these are coming out and just kind of getting a fun look behind the scenes
As we got approval, but yeah, the whole idea here is things are becoming a little bit more mainstream and of course it does bring in more
Compliance and other areas like that, but not necessarily bad things for the industry
So let's talk a little bit about mainstream adoption here and I know uh as well
You know, we were coming from that tesla chat tesla owning bitcoin still so probably people that are interested in this because they're interested in that
So uh mainstream adoption, where did bitwise say they see mainstream adoption coming from?
Um, so what they said was that um
20 percent of wealth items in america comes from the retail market
Uh, we know that retail, you know does represent a big part of the volume, right? So it's only around 20 percent
However, 40 comes from the registered investment advisors
Institutional investors like pension funds family offices hedge funds endowments, right?
So 20 meaning the retail market have definitely, you know already been able to invest in the crypto market
But that but the the introduction of these etfs really opened the doors for the 80
Right of the wealth in america to invest directly in digital asset
Uh, so there's no doubt that in the future
Um, this is going to have a big impact in price action bitcoin
For their adoption bitcoin that's this is going to you know, push governments to really take this seriously to start uh
Regulating the industry and as opposed to you know other sectors or industries, uh in financial markets
I think the crypto market is is an industry that's really ripe for
um regulation every market participant has been really fighting for it and I think that
Would be great for everyone to see more regulation. So we're expecting stablecoin regulation to be next one on the table
Circle group announced that uh stablecoin regulation should be coming in the next two years
I think that'd be a great start and then obviously, you know, maybe
Um more proof of reserves on behalf of exchanges, but long story short, uh
Uh, the uh, the approvals of eztf stepping open doors for around 80 percent of wealth in america
The uh the segments that definitely you know trades in way bigger amounts
Perfect mustafa you got any comments you want to throw in on that?
Yeah, I would say uh that that certainly the the adoption is coming from
a slew of green lights, right what etf approval represents is a regulated, uh, and and
institutions to start trading this product and uh, ultimately this uh provides true access to
This decentralized technology that we've been using for quite some time now. I think that uh, you know, certainly
the leaders in the etf space are
To to adhere to the market and listen to the market and see what the market is demanding
So I think uh, we don't have to jump into gbtc right away, but I think that you know
uh, all the firms lowering their fees just most notably in vesco and uh
And uh galaxy lowering their fees over the last few days as well that lends itself to
higher and higher adoption rates
Institutions don't want the cumbersome process of uh owning physical coins
Um, so the the representation of etfs for these firms lends itself to higher adoption rates. Um, I think that uh
The ria's the institutional invest investors
Uh pension funds are all you know now able to hold these instruments and provide access to these instruments for their clientele
Uh, which you know in speaking with a few friends
And advisors from the traffic space people aren't you know, necessarily willing to take on the risk
But if you if you simply start with a 1 allocation
um that that's enough to get people to start to wonder what is this technology capable of and I think that that lends itself to
Another topic which is once people go down the rabbit hole of what btc can do and certainly we're seeing btc
Start to do a lot more you can build on top of btc now
There's there's there's also nfts on top of btc now
Then people go down the rabbit hole of what other technologies are available for them to to to get exposure to so there's ethereum
A thousand other coins, but um in terms of layer ones, uh, you'll start to see the preference
Outlined by the market itself and that's an important, you know, that's an important element
Especially for crypto native individuals such as myself
The market showing its hand and what is preferred as as a as a as a technology to be used by the masses
That will only become apparent after we have a comp competitor
Uh to the bitcoin etf what I mean is once we have an ethereum etf
We'll start to see if your on-chain ethereum activities start to pick up once we have a salona etf. We'll have we'll see
Uh increase adoption of salona protocols. So this is uh, this is all this is all extremely positive momentum
Yeah, and if I could just build an idea, um
As much as you know, these companies are now allowed to invest in cryptocurrency
Some are still waiting on the sidelines to see
People are going to invest and how regulations are going to to change around these etfs, right?
It's it's this is really just a big nice book. We haven't seen anything yet, right?
So I think that a lot of companies are still talking about it before the question was really
Um, should we invest now they're looking at how they're going to invest. What's the allocation?
Um another stat that big wise provided an interview was that if you just allocate around five percent
your portfolio to crypto even such a small amount like five percent you'll see a
Significant rise in your sharp ratio and you're just your overall
Return. So long story short. I think this is just a tip of the iceberg
Um, if we saw bitcoin go into 70,000 with just the retail market and obviously some trading firms
Um imagine where we can go with the likes of JP Morgan Goldman Sachs coming in
So it's it's it's gonna take some time
But there's no doubt that this will be uh, this is massive for the crypto industry as well
Let me throw a quick question at you you see note before obviously we're deep diving into a lot of the topics here around mass adoption
I know we have some more uh, I just wanted to go over around, you know, eric el chunas and how bloomberg sees this coming but real quick
Just just to kind of give some more context here
Where does secure digital markets fit into all this and why is it such a main focus for y'all?
Well security markets was always, you know focused on helping, uh institutions secure the
Invest in cryptocurrencies, right? Uh, I think the introduction ETFs also have the same purpose, right?
Um, there's we also offer a ton of different institutional products, right for institutional clients
ETFs are really just you know one regulated vehicle, uh, but some clients prefer more of a
uh different way of trading
Whether it's through our you know asset management arm, uh, some clients prefer to
Grab a loan with the crypto as collateral, right? So there's no doubt that we kind of work hand in hand to kind of
Work on the you know global adoption of cryptocurrencies, uh, but there's just different ways of doing so, right? Um, so
overall, I think we're we're all working on the same goal here and
You know the products that you offer for retail for the retail marketing for institutional clients are are going to be different, right?
Um, so I think more and more in the future. We're going to see a lot more institutional products
Um, I think the ETF is really just the beginning opening door for regulation to come in or allowing these
institutions to trade but I think that's there's still
There's still some other aspects that need to happen or institutions to come in with bigger, you know big size
For example a derivative market is still pretty
I wouldn't say weak but it's still somewhat thin, right? So I think the options market has to mature futures market as well
Um, and uh, I think that we just need to you know, create more and more products for institutional clients
That's one thing that we're constantly working on and I think that the industry as a whole is also doing the same same same thing
So the next couple years will definitely see a lot more institutional product and that's going to fuel more, uh, institutional flow
And so that that all leads back to you guys. Yeah, that makes sense
I mean at the end of the day, well, I I suppose one other question for you within that same
Vane, why would people use your platform versus the competition? What's the benefits there?
Yeah, great question, I think that the way that I break it down to clients is
In a quadra format so you have on one side pricing
The second side is settlement
The third quadrant is customer service and the fourth is related relating to regulatory status. So
people want to trade with a firm that is dynamic and
In certain cases the etf is is competitive and in others it is not
For us as a trading desk, we have to be dynamic to our clients needs
We have clients coming in from all different sectors of the crypto industry and the traditional industry
so we have clients that come in and want to
perform automated purchases for VTC and this is a case of clients that want to hedge their
Their their exposure to the market and they want to hedge their exposure to how they interact with
Their client bases. So we provide that service
We have we have the ability to
Do the opposite. So automatically liquidate the coins. We have the capability to trade through API
All of these all these instruments all these capabilities on tech enablements
Allow our clients to trade with us in multiple different ways, which addresses different sectors in the market
Faster settlement time and they don't mind paying a higher premium for that
They want to be able to settle immediately get the coins and move on to the next transaction
Others prefer a better and more robust customer service approach. So they want you to walk them through
What is going on in the crypto industry? What is uh, what is the narrative shift between VTC and ethereum currently, right?
So for example today you have uh, you have ethereum showing a better performance
If VTC is up 2 percent, this is interesting for some groups as you know cyclically the market shows its
narrative changes over time as
There's there was a report today by standard chartered saying that there is a high likelihood of the ethereum ETF being passed off
Um at some point in may now the market will start to
Um, so our clients generally want us to provide them with this information. What is being what it would have seen and
The traditional media side what is seen within crypto chats what is seen between our buy sell ratios of our client activity
All of this information lends itself to our customer service approach
And our job on a daily basis is to educate our clients about what we see in the market and that comes from
Of spending time in order to understand where our clients want understanding what the what the data is staying about the market
The experience of uh of what we've done over the last years. We've all made money. We've all lost money
It's one of those industries where you can truly experience
uh a few years of uh of market action and uh
In a few uh a few months a few hours and a few minutes even if you're trading some highly highly volatile
coins and uh and meme coins, so I think that for us it's always a matter of
Providing a customer service approach in education and research
And and last is is an ongoing
Ongoing focus of ours, which is the regulatory approach. We want to be highly regulated
We want to be providing our clients with the comfort in trading with sdm on a day-to-day basis
and that comes from being regulated by adhering to a set of rules that
Sometimes you have to self-govern and sometimes it comes from the regulators itself
Sometimes it comes with an education piece to the regulators about what is
Necessary in the market for a desk to operate and sometimes it comes from uh
Knowledge based off of what you've seen with competitors and holding yourself to a higher standard. Um
There's there's a few cases over the last few years where some exchanges have uh have not performed well
And I think that the Ontario regulators while they have a heavy-handed approach in their regulated
regulatory stance, it's protected quite a lot of
of of of retail participants and institutional participants
It's also, you know potentially failed and I think that's that's the that's the job of the regulator to always play that
Balance and to make sure that on a regular basis
they are taking in feedback from the market from providers such as ourselves and many of our
competitors and integrating that into our regulatory framework that serves to
An investor and make sure that that any instrument that they're they're investing in
Uh provides them with a sense of comfort
So balancing these four quadrants for me is what provides the opportunity for us to to grow
Awesome I appreciate that let's take a couple of the hands that are up. Zarya you got a thought on this topic
Hey, thanks for having me. Um, yeah, so I see a
Uh, like a juxtaposing kind of future here for um for specifically, you know, bitcoin
Where you have one end of the spectrum a lot more people getting involved
Uh, there's bigger companies that it's just becoming more
Just getting more demand for it in a sense and then on the other side of the spectrum
There's halving and there's going to be less supply. So there's going to be a point where
ETFs could could be the only way you can actually get into
Um these kind of things especially where it's a thing where um, where it's a cryptocurrency where it's the first one
Everyone kind of knows that the first of anything is usually the most valuable. Um in a sense. It doesn't matter what it is
So that's just my my point. I think
These kind of exchanges and things are great because it definitely um
It creates more adoptable a lot more people are going to be more involved
So but then the demand goes up and then the supply goes down. So it's a very interesting future for sure
I have some questions actually about uh secure digital markets. I want to learn more about um
How you're different from like traditional centralized exchanges. I have a lot of questions actually, but let's just start with that
A traditional centralized exchange serves to provide a wider
Our job is to provide a specific set of clients access to the market and the tools to
action those those needs and wants
So for us, it's a matter of providing a deeper set of liquidity
Sorry one moment, uh providing the ability for these individuals to
To perform bespoke workflows for their transactions and to ultimately do things that they might not necessarily
Not not necessarily want to be displayed on an exchange directly
So the function of our of our business is to provide the ability for clients to onboard and off-board funds from the from the industry
and sometimes clients want to
Telegraph their moves in the market. Sometimes clients do not want to telegraph those moves into the market
Um, if a client's coming in and wants to buy 100 million dollars or 500 million dollars a btc
Doing that on an exchange will be quite visible. The order book is is available for all to see
and you can certainly place
Orders in a specific format to uh to to to avoid those moves to be
Seen to the market. Um, and and and each strategy has its merit
But ultimately the client dictates their their desires and we operate to serve those uh to serve those needs
Does that answer your question
Okay, let me give her a second if she needs it
Actually had another question as well that I wanted to throw into the mix here and it's kind of like uh,
It's it's the high level question. I think floats over the
Crypto ecosystem that is in your guy's opinion. We talked about bitcoin here. Bitcoin being the driving force by the potential bull market
Do you see bitcoin as an inflation hedge?
Uh, that's a good question. Yeah, sure I can jump in that's a good question. Um
So for the longest time we did speak about
Bitcoin, uh being inflation hides. I think that's a conversation that started years ago
um, it really depends because
for now in my opinion, it
Uh, it doesn't really act like one yes. Um
The reason is that I think do I see bitcoin is that it it's it is a risk asset
Just like, you know nazdak or stocks, right? Uh, I don't think uh, if uh, you know, uh
In a situation where inflation goes out of control. I mean we were in that market in 2022
And we saw what happened with bitcoin's price action, right?
Um, so in a situation where people have less money
On them less residual income
It I don't know if bitcoin is a product that they would like to buy right
It more and more it is acting like a digital gold
right, so I I do think there is a component there is a uh,
Um, there definitely could be a future where bitcoin can act as an inflation head for now. I think that it tracks
Liquidity just like any other risk asset and if inflation really, you know, um starts to rise up. I think that
It will be it will mostly
Follow other risk assets and at some point
If you look at the correlation with gold, uh, the correlation of gold
Uh at some point was quite negative, right? It wasn't very significant
It's like it was like minus 0.8, but uh, it always hovered around zero or like minus two
The digital goal that everyone has envisioned
However, if you go back to march
2023 what happened with all when all the banks went down, right people weren't trusting the u.s dollar which is crazy to say a lot
What did people do and a lot of institutions on our desk?
Everyone were using their u.s dollars to buy bitcoin and you saw what happened with the price action of bitcoin right off the bat, right?
But at the same time the federal reserve did inject a lot of liquidity in the market and that's why I say that
Bitcoin usually acts as the risk assets. I think with an increased amount of liquidity
That's when you know bitcoin will flourish a lot more than other
Financial products like the stock market, but then when you have
Uh, you know a drop of liquidity or you have rising inflation. You'll see that bitcoin usually goes down more than other traditional
Going back to correlation bitcoin was highly correlated to u.s equities at some point, right? It's very correlated big textile
Text stocks and nazdak really suggested that it followed mostly traditional
But I think that there could be a future for bitcoin to act on inflation heads
I just think that based on a recent past
Got it. All right. Let's see. We have lady trader back
Thank you so much. Uh, so actually two questions one when you did mention that your products are for a specific subset of investors
targeting b2b or is it b2c but then also with a certain requirement like accredited investors or
Investors that are bringing a certain amount of volume and then second do you uh, because I actually i'm a q opinion leader
So my community is mostly interested in me finding opportunities early on right? Basically what we call alpha hunting
So finding opportunities early and then introducing it to the community
um, and so do you have any plans of tokenization or
Coming up with with a blockchain or anything like that or is it just going to be purely?
Offering those digital assets to certain clients
Right that makes sense. Um for us, you know in terms of tokenization for for ourselves
Who knows? Um, maybe in a in a few years, we would want to have absolute
Regulatory certainty before pursuing that it's uh, it's never nothing's off the table
Um, but it's something that we want to make sure that is uh fully fully fully approved by regulators
Um, but it's not something that's currently on the roadmap
What we kind of cater to, you know groups such as yourselves individuals such as yourselves. We work with quite a lot of
Um, and the value of that is uh, you know, we help clients
onboard we help clients kind of
Yeah, sorry about that was getting a call
um, so ultimately, you know, we do work with groups such as yourself to help formulate specific strategies and uh
And provide an access point into the market
Hey wolf, hey guys, so great to chat with you guys today i'm based in canada
So i'm always very very interested when we have canadian based companies come in and you mentioned that ontario had some strict
And that was going to be my question. How is the canadian government, you know
Regulating this do you see a lot of differences between us and the us and the other side of things?
I'm a cpa by trade and I didn't know like have you guys been
In talks or you know having meetings with some of the big four accounting firms and are they caught up with us yet?
Like is there anyone in there that's caught up with us and that's what i'm i'm curious about
Where the regulations are because the last time I chatted with some of my colleagues
They didn't even know what cryptocurrency was so i'm really interested in that side of things
For sure great question, I think that the canadian market is uh
fully pushing for innovation and adoption of these so
I think most notably a group that we've we've worked with uh intimately is kpmg and uh kpmg has uh actually
Added bitcoin and uh ethereum
To uh to its corporate treasury and this was in
2022 so I hope they're up on their uh investments
Well at least if they have to account for it mustafa like they need to be able to teach other people how to do that
Absolutely. Absolutely. That's a great point. There are accounting practices
In how they account for that will lend itself to helping others
Uh in a process to allow them to add bitcoin and ethereum and other assets to its balance sheet
Um, so that is the first and most important item
Uh, second of all, I think that uh firms such as uh Accenture
Um are also working hand in hand with a number of different providers in the space and a number of different enterprises in the space
Um, I think the previous question was what kind of groups do we work with we work with b2b and b2b to see
So our goal is to provide that entry point for groups to access liquidity in the market
Overall the there's quite a lot of institutionalization in the space and and and and serving
Kind of different groups is is extremely extremely
um, there is there's there's there's quite a lot in terms of uh regulatory needs, uh for what custodian to use which
There's a limited number of qualified custodians in canada that that allow
groups to get access to this market there is
um, there's a pathway that needs to be established for decentralized finance applications and nfts and
the metaverse, um and and all of these sandboxes that were created in the the the regulators
Hands allow people to start building things in in the right framework
And when they're built in the right framework, it kind of serves as a as an example as a case study
for additional groups to get involved
To build on top of what was built
And to further innovate I think that there's certain groups in the market that have built up their own
Kind of private blockchain for inter entity transactions and poking of trades
Um, and I think that is a little far away. I would say from
but ultimately those methods will serve to be a way for people to get
To get to the point of using blockchain without knowing they're using blockchain to get to the point of using crypto without knowing
That will be the point of which we will hit
The the mainstream adoption that everybody craves and everybody's been asking for for years and years and years
Um, it does take time though. It does take time. I've uh, tried to explain to my mother how to set up a wallet address and
Still have challenges. I mean, yeah, I was gonna say trying to get her to uh, to to
Yeah to send uh paypal transfers or even sometimes e-transfers. So
Yeah, and that's thank you so much for that because just even from the consumer side like the on-ramp for purchasing crypto
Or attaining it was just so complex because our banking system, you know
We have major banks and if you know three out of the four block, you know
Your credit card from being able to buy crypto then the on-ramp side of things is really tough up here
So i'm glad that they have you guys to go through especially where you said there's a b2b to see there
And did I see that you guys have done over 10 billion in trade volume? Is that correct?
Yo, yo, um, yeah, so i'm based in canada as well too
Um in an area that most people in the world don't know about the atlantic coast of canada
Um, so yeah, the reason why I wanted to jump up and ask this question, um is
recently, I mean like last year, um, I was developing a project and came into a considerable amount of
wealth through this the the development of this project and it was in the crypto space and
So I was uh, you know thinking to myself like okay
I need to get my legals and corporate set up and wealth management set up. And so I went to the largest
Eastern canada so east of montreal the largest company and so there's you know, there's four provinces here
It's not it's a very rural area. It's very small, but it's the largest
This was the largest wealth management company east of montreal
So anyways, I went to them and they didn't have a single clue about anything to do with crypto at all
They didn't even know where to start. They they they didn't even have contacts in regards to
Actually setting up proper, you know legal entities internationally
um for uh, you know wealth, um wealth building in the digital space
Um, they didn't have they didn't have a clue. So the reason why i'm saying this is I mean
The east coast of canada has typically been you know, 10 years behind culturally now that the internet's been pretty
Uh, you know substantial over the past 15 20 years
Um, you know things have caught up quite a bit more people have more access to things
Still there's not really any big cities here. There's hall of facts in novascosia
But the reason why i'm saying this is i'm just curious when people do turn the taps on internationally
And even in rural areas and different areas and you know first world countries and they start to look at okay
Like what how are we going to position ourselves?
Uh in this space for clientele that are going to start coming to us more regularly asking
How do I you know diversify into the crypto space for my portfolio?
Am I supposed to put one percent and five percent? How do I how do I do that?
If they if they as wealth managers, you know, some of these guys, you know
I've been doing this for 40 years if they don't even have the contacts to know how to navigate this space or any of the
How do they get started? Do they go directly to you guys? Do they do you guys have um, say for example a
You know a crypto 101 for you know
Dummies course that people can take that already have a lot of experience in in finance
Like i'm curious how you're supposed to onboard the apparatus for
Um, you know adoption in this way and what your guys's methods are in regards to this as as an example for like this
Organization and these cosa can how would you how would you approach that?
Uh, I think you had to unmute you've seen or you've seen you want to tackle this one. Yeah, sure. Um, well to be very honest
we mostly uh work with institutions
Are very experienced in the crypto field
Uh, or at least and just the global financial market as a whole, right?
uh, there definitely is some education involved in terms of
how they put for your allocation or um
some basic, you know somewhat, um
Basic knowledge on in social products and social crypto products, right?
But we aren't really in the business of creating courses
Uh for our clients because they're usually a little more
Um savvy in terms of the different products that they're that they're trading. There's no doubt that will definitely, you know, take the time
Uh to to educate our clients regarding the opportunities
Uh that our heads but in general, um, we prefer to do that on a more
case-by-case basis or on a call or face face-to-face instead of
Um having a scalable course online. I don't know if that makes sense
Yeah, I mean these guys are traditional institutional like they're working with institutions, um in traditional finance
And they just they don't even know how to get started or where to look
In regards to how to position themselves in crypto
So that that would just be you know approaching you guys are you approaching them and then?
You know starting the conversation and them starting to work with you guys directly or do you guys train them?
Understanding what bitcoin is, you know how to approach, you know their clients and and what i'm just curious in regards to that
Yeah, for sure. I mean there's no doubt that we definitely take the time to to help anyone
That's that's really looking to get in the crypto space. So I would suggest once again
It's really a case-by-case basis depending on the level expertise and um and the nature of the business. I would suggest to uh,
Um to reach out to me directly
linkedin or or directly on our website
Let's definitely talk about this in more detail. There's no doubt that there's a lot of different products we can we can offer uh for your
For your client here and there's no doubt that we will take the time needed to educate them on on the different crypto products
That are available to them
Perfect good questions there poppy
Let me let me flip us back for a second to some of the adoption stuff
I'm curious, you know, you see know if you see any undervalued or overvalued assets based on what's happening on chain right now
Uh, that's a good question, um in terms of
I would say that there's there's definitely a lot of uh activity in terms of
Call it uh, so lana's been gaining a lot of traction. I think that's definitely been the biggest surprise in the last year
Uh, I I remember after the whole ftx fiasco went salon take a big hit. Um, there's no doubt that
Uh, a lot of people had their doubts on salana. They thought that ftx was really the only backer especially spf
Uh, but if you speak to all the developers, well, not all developers, but a lot of crypto developers out there
They're quite recognized everyone really liked the technology behind salana, right? They love the network a lot of technology
Um, obviously sometimes it might not be, you know scalable in terms of you know
How the network will down a little bit, but there's no doubt that there was something there, right? And I think that's uh
Recovered you'll see that their activity in the nft markets started to come up
You'll see that the tbl started to recover as well. So there's definitely been a lot in the background
And you'll see that uh, and that's why salana gained around 500 in college less than two months, right?
I think that was by far the best trade
There were many reasons to believe that this would happen. First of all was a massive short squeeze
um, if you look at the amount of addresses being created on salana network if you look at the projects using salana if you look at the
The nft markets, uh in salana network at some point it even surpassed if the um, the nft market on ethereum
Right. So I would say that was definitely one of the best trades out there
Uh, but we're also seeing the rise of like, uh sui, uh gaining traction now their top 10 in terms of tdl
Uh, so I think that's going to there's gonna be a ton of different
Uh layer ones or layer twos are gonna gain more and more traction more and more traction
Definitely one of the best trades is to follow
uh, the rise of ethereum that could match them with some of these level these layer twos, uh, and
We noticed that uh, just by tracking some of these metrics in the background as well as what ethereum is doing
That could provide some insights
Into like what the coins some coins like arbitrum or optimism are going to do and those those have those are definitely served as very good trades
Yeah, and just to just to keep batting to that I mean look there there's
There's ghost chains out there that are still in the top 10, right?
I'd love to see if somebody has ever used, you know on-chain
Cardano instruments, um, but it's still you know
In the in the in the top 10 with uh, an 18 billion dollar market cap. So I think that
Ultimately the the tech and the price
Aren't fully correlated. Um, we have this discussion internally all the time. It's like, okay
There's there's a lot of great technology being built within length
Um, but link has been uh, a relative
Not out performer relative to the market, right? Um,
Cardano, you know the technology is not
Incredible I would say, uh, but it's still in the top 10
So ultimately I think what matters in this industry is following incentives
Incentives dictate outcomes in this market and we've seen that time and time over again
Celestia is a great example. There was a massive surge in Celestia due to the
Airdrops their jobs or their incentives the staking of these of these protocols allowed
allowed them to gain traction versus the competition
Harmony in the previous cycle had massive incentives for people to build on top and to bridge over to those chains
Protocols try to play this balance on a regular basis. Um a fax most recently tried to uh,
try to harp on the growing uh rise of Solana and what Solana is working on with uh, their
Their uh, i'm i'm going to paraphrase but it's basically a meme coin fund where they were coming to purchase meme coins on a back
Didn't pan out. Well, they didn't get the traction that they wanted to get
Um, ultimately ultimately it's the it's the incentives. It's the it's the proposed builders
on top of these protocols and
Timing timing is one of the most important elements. Uh, if you pay attention to kind of price and media you'll see that
You'll have 20 different headlines drop at the same time on on a on a
Um and other days where BTC is just getting uh clobbered day over day over day. There's there's nothing dropping
Everything is uh fully synced. Um, and that's just to further harp on the attention that people get. Um, and uh
We're we're entering now more than ever crypto becoming more intertwined with attention economy. So
incentivized to allow their their their their
Community to be further involved with these protocols, but it all depends on what are they getting out of it?
Is it a better protocol? Is it faster transaction speeds? I can do a thousand trades on Solano cost me
Less than one sold less than a hundred dollars. I can do a thousand transactions on eth and burn probably
10 to 20 000 depending on gas speeds
Um, but what do I get out of that right? Eth is potentially a little bit more robust. It's with with the test of time
Is a deflationary asset Solana is currently an inflationary asset if Solana hits its all-time high
Uh in in market cap the price would actually be lower than the previous off on high due to the inflationary element of Solana
So all these items kind of play hand in hand to make a decision
Uh on on what's interesting and what to buy with the sell and and and where attention is currently at
Ultimately right now Solana I would say is is picking up a good good fair chunk of of the attention economy
Um, there's multiple reasons for that. There was a lot of changing hands
Um of Solana there was a lot of uh
liquidating their stash a lot of uh funds that you know realized what they needed to realize and they have a mandate to decrease their exposure
Um, there's a lot of uh retail. I would say jumping into the Solana ecosystem now
Um, and you can certainly check out the the on-chain activity the wallet generated the tpl the nft activity
Um, and I think that will only grow. Um, I think that winners are are going to continue outperforming
Um, but if you look year over year
the top 10 top 15 shift massively and
You know the goal is to figure out what incentives are there for people to uh to dump one token and acquire another
That was a great explanation and breakdown
uh, we're going to do another 10-ish minutes here if anyone on the panel has questions as always you're more than welcome to jump in
And uh throw your hand up, but I do have a couple more as well
I think that we just went over the undervalued or overvalued and I think that you also went through a little bit of the on-chain activity
Uh, i'm curious. Do you think that on-chain activity suggests a strong altcoin season this next cycle?
That seems to be one of the most popular pieces that people talk about a lot of altcoin space is going
And if you feel like you already have covered that beforehand, no worries. Yeah, mustafa
yeah, I can jump into that and
I'm trying to find something that just specifically addresses this
what typically happens is
It's a massive. Uh, it's a it's a massive, uh cycle. It's a massive
BTC to eth to alts and then everybody gets to the alt stage
So BTC pumps ethereum and then consolidates ethereum starts moving consolidates and then the alt starts going
Going um going faster and faster. So it's a game of uh
It's a it's a horse racing game as I as I like to call it internally to the teeth
That's all fun. That's all great for capturing
however, you get to a point where
Everybody starts jumping on solana, right? This is the case that we were just talking about
Everybody's is is you know in in 2017 when I was heavily trading alt everybody was saying
Capture and and try to look at your performance
Uh for the BTC alt chart, right?
Because you should be outperforming BTC and that goes hand in hand with what we were just saying
but the the cyclicality of capital the hot ball of money as some people call it on crypto twitter
The issue that rises with this is that BTC gets angry
Ethereum gets angry and what I mean by that is as people go from BTC to eth to solana to
To to sui to injective to celestial to
To all of these other protocols the liquidity dries up from BTC BTC dumps because there's less volume and there's less activity happening there. So
overall the the on-chain activity lends itself to
Uh the the retail interest for sure. That's first and foremost
Ultimately, no, no, it's such a big market now that no matter what you do in order to
bring on users to the ecosystem is a
It's not to say that on-chain activity is bad because when you get to the point of meme coins pumping
you know 100x in the span of three months like like bonk like pepe coin like
There's so many of these uh, these meme dog coins that have have done tremendous numbers, um,
What when these pump, you know
It's good in a sense also because it all boards a set of set of individuals a set of uh users to the ecosystem
And ultimately some stay some don't but I think a larger percentage do stay and start to build
And when you build something specific to your audience whether you are crypto native or ideally not
You're onboarding individuals to the to the ecosystem and ultimately they start holding a larger
um core position of the alts or of the majors that they want to
Keep for a longer period of time and that's supply of the market
Um, and then they start to build things that they know people want so the nft market's been very interesting
There's a lot of media. There's a lot of you know dows being set up. I think dows are still
One of the one of the things that haven't caught a major
Narrative hump over uh over the cycle and I think they will have their time
Um, and the exposure to those dows will will show itself soon
I think dime is is is one a good example. I mean just
You can set up a dow that you know, if you're if you're if you have interest in the dow
It means that uh, you know, you you will have the dow treasury allocate funds towards farming air jobs
Within every single protocol. This is just something that i've thought about you set up a doubt. Everybody puts in capital
Um, this doubt allocates funds of their treasury towards taking in every single protocol you you receive their air drops you can
As further investment into future protocols
All of these items kind of lend itself to more retail interest more participants more builders
Um and ultimately a thriving uh microcosm of each single protocol on its ecosystem
Well put well put all right, I got just one or two more on my end
Uh, one of the ones I did mention earlier and I could throw this back at you
So, you know, this was around eric belchunas who i've had on spaces. He's the lead etf correspondent bloomberg
I believe that you guys met a chatter with him talk a little bit about the likelihood of other digital asset investment products
Could you cover what he shared?
Well, what's interesting is that uh in order to have a spike. Yeah, this was a product you really you really need to have
Uh a strong liquid futures market, right? There's no doubt that they get when you would agree that bitcoin is very
You know liquids, uh, it's been trained for years and years
Um, and uh, they have had a pretty you know, liquid, uh futures market, right?
even as definitely, you know next in line, um, the problem is
Hasn't really been categorized as a commodity like bitcoin has there's still some
regular regulatory uncertainty around eth however, there's still you know, there's still a strong possibility that uh, eth
Could definitely have a spot it's yet. It's just not
Um, I don't think the probabilities are as high as bitcoin because the regulatory
Outlook around ethhe right especially what it's
As a switch from proof of work to proof of stake, but I would definitely say that would be next in line
Uh as it has a futures market developed in on a regulated exchange like the cme
for now, there's there aren't any you know, other futures market like soul xrp or
medical or anything else really so I I would say that uh, i'd definitely be a lot more confident saying that
Uh to get a spot etf, but be a little harder to estimate with certainty if other alcoins
Would be next in line. We definitely see
A stronger futures market on a regulated entity like the cme
Uh for that to take place. Um
Like their concerns around governance and level of centralization around protocols
East is definitely, you know, uh, the only asset with a regulated futures markets in the u.s
So technically it should be next in line
Um, I think the sc has delayed
Some some deadlines here and the final deadline should be may 23th. I'm not mistaken
I think the market is overall expect a 50 50 probability
of an approval of an e spot etf
So that's going to be interesting to see uh, but it's very tough to estimate what's going to happen
I think they're going to approve an e spot etf personally
Not speaking on behalf of the company. I think uh, I think it's my personal opinion
however, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they don't just because
Um the outlook around uh east but most likely they should approve it
But if ever anyone else are expecting, you know a new alcoin spot etf like I think
Was it black rock or someone else had spoken about a potential xrp?
Spot etf. Um, i'm very confident saying there's there's almost no way of that happening. Um
before we get if a regulated futures markets
On the cme for example, right so next in line east
Uh, but I wouldn't expect any other alcoin to offer a spot etf for the rest of the year
Yeah, I think that's fair, okay cool guys, uh
I guess yeah, we got it. We got one more time for one more question. All right. My last question here
You know, what do we see coming and stuff like that? I i'm curious a little bit more just general adoption
Overall adoption. What did bloomberg have to say about how etfs will accelerate adoption as a whole and that'll be my final question
I mean bloomberg is especially eric about trunus, right? He has covered
He has covered etf coverage there for for quite some time now
Uh, we can say almost over time, right? Uh, so he's definitely seen a lot of developments, uh regarding
Uh the different etf brutal process
Um in terms of accelerating adoption there, he's definitely very bullish, right?
Um, just like the rest of the market. I mean we've we've been waiting for a pool of an etf spot etf for quite some time
So and the amount of time that the conversation has kind of died and then it was reignited
Right. So that just shows how much the market really was waiting for a spot etf, right?
So the fact that finally happened was definitely a big deal and once we get people back to what they were saying
This is really opening up our gates to institutions coming in the crypto industry, right? And they're going to come in strong
I think it's just gonna take some time in terms of really convincing institutions and also once again, they have to
You know the market reacts to these bitcoin etfs, but once we definitely once these inflows continue to rise once the
once, uh, you know price action starts to
You know continue further. Um
And hopefully we reach record highs. There's no doubt that more and more
uh more and more banks and financial institutions are going to
to apply for their own etfs
And are going to start looking into how they can uh diversify the treasury with crypto most specifically bitcoin. So
um, eric was definitely very bullish, uh overall and he sees uh,
He sees etfs as like the effective bridge, right that brings institutions into digital assets and to the entire history, right?
What took place with gold? Uh, if you look at a chart, um, you'll see that the introduction
Has definitely had a massive bullish impact on the price of gold from three hundred dollars. I think it's around 2000
Right. So we're expecting the same thing to happen
Uh with bitcoin, it's not going to be an overnight
Uh phenomenon. I think it's definitely going to take some time
But it's it's the start. I think that the introduction the introduction of the etf
Of a new bull market and this one is going to be more interesting than the others because we finally have
Uh and the etfs are going to lead to further regulation
Further money coming in and when we talk about institutions coming in the market
They're not coming in to buy five thousand dollars worth
Um, so if we were capable of going to 70,000 with just a retail market
There's no doubt that we can definitely break the record highs quite quickly with the institutions
and it's not just about price action bitcoin it's also about just the
The growth of the whole ecosystem the innovations and behind it the regulation to protect consumers
It's it's really the whole the bigger picture. I know as a trader. I'm very biased. I'm almost talking about price action, but
Um the the impact to the crypto ecosystem is going to be absolutely massive
Uh, these big banks have already already been investing in blockchain initiatives tokenization
But I think that they would be a lot more comfortable in investing
More amounts and innovating the space after no regulation comes in. So once again, um,
I can't repeat myself a lot here, but uh, it's it is a big deal for those that are wondering and
This is really just the tip of the iceberg
we're all very bullish we're all very excited to see it and
ETFs with a bitcoin halving and for the interest rate customer feds
I mean we're really just getting ready for a very interesting bull market in the next year or two
Perfect guys, we're right at the top of the hour here first topic
Thank you to all the speakers that came on we had poppy and lady trader on here as well as
tom crown lucas popping in
I know that we have that piece up top that we pushed people to go check out
Right with that post with the year interview and they can grab that for free from y'all
Any other areas you'd like to put on people's radar as we wrap up here?
Uh, yeah, thanks a lot for sharing that. Um, I would say definitely
follow secure digital markets on twitter
Uh, definitely subscribe to our research channel telegram
Uh, and just feel free to reach out to us if you have any questions or if ever you have any contacts
Uh that are interested in trading. We do have a referral program
Um that has has definitely been getting a lot of traction
So we want to make sure that people are compensated for the business they bring
Uh our way and that has definitely, you know served to be very
Very good passive income for some so always interested in talking about the global financial markets, especially crypto
So reach out to us if you guys have any questions or just want to uh, get our color of the market
Perfect moustache anything else for you
Yeah, this has been a great experience, thank you everybody appreciate everybody's questions and uh, thoughtful approach to this conversation
Um, if anybody wants to chat about the markets in general feel free to shoot either one of us at dm
I could have a conversation at any time
Um, and uh, yeah, welcome the participation of everybody we do have
Um, we do have our referral program and if you're interested in onboarding, uh, definitely reach out as well
Perfect. Thanks guys. Appreciate everyone for being on here. Be back on spaces in about 27 minutes
And i'll talk to you all then have a good one. Everybody