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WOLF TUESDAY AFTERNOON SPACES
Recorded: May 6, 2025 Duration: 1:57:54Space Recording
Short Summary
Tesla is on the brink of significant advancements with the upcoming launch of its driverless service in Austin and the production of a new, more affordable model. These initiatives, alongside the growth of its energy business and the integration of AI technology, position Tesla for a promising future in the rapidly evolving automotive landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Yo, yo, what's going on, Imp?
what's up mr gobb good to hear your voice doing good doing good taking a look at
What's up, Mr. Gov? Good to hear your voice.
this market here today and everything's staying quite interesting as always especially in the
realm of tech and tesla you've been catching any trades yeah a little bit here and there i was
short kind of going into today uh got out near the bottom thankfully and uh quite right back
pretty hard so kind of no man's land here
i think a lot of longs hit targets but um keep seeing buyers step into this market i mean even
looking at the tesla chart this uh 270 area has been a big area 270 275 and we uh we rejected the
200 day a couple times now but we're still knocking on that door. 20 days curling upside over the 50 looks pretty good, honestly.
Take a look at Tesla for a second on the chart
while I'm getting a couple of others up here.
I see Landon, I see Omar.
It's an interesting place right here.
I like to sometimes zoom out onto the weekly as well.
Helps give you a little bit more clarity.
And Tesla's weekly looks super interesting,
especially when you compare it to, I think,
the volatility that we feel on a daily basis.
There's just this huge base happening right now.
And it very much reminds me of Amazon.
I don't know if you remember this, Emp, if you look at the chart, if it seems similar
to you.
But when you go out onto the weekly here on Tesla, we've been consolidating for, wild
to say it, but I mean, five years, right?
Almost of consolidation here.
And so... Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, five years, right? Almost of consolidation here. And so-
Yeah, it's interesting.
I mean, Tesla is such a high beta name.
You get bigger slings in this name than most.
But if you kind of look at just like the midpoint
of where it's consolidated really since late 2020,
it's right here.
I mean, that's where one of the biggest volume shelf areas
is up here on this consolidation.
So it's kind of sitting above some of it.
It's not a bad look, honestly. Yeah, it's pretty interesting to me. So yeah, like four and a half years of
consolidation. And the reason I say it, it felt like Amazon was, you know, Amazon kind of did
something like this for a while back from 2020 until 2022, like end of 2022, and then dipped
and then ripped up to new all time highs. So just an interesting one to continue to look at. But if you are tired of some of the crazy volatility, zoom out to the
weekly and you'll see that this thing is a lot more steady than I think people have given it
credit for. With that being said, I see we got a great panel up here. I want to start circling
around. I know that I haven't been on for a week or two for Tesla Talk, so excited to get back on with the crew. Omar, what's going on, man?
Hey. Yeah, um, sorry, give me a minute here.
Yeah, you're good. Take a moment, take a moment. How you doing, Penny?
Dude, I wish I was doing better. I woke up with a bad headache this morning.
I'm sorry to hear that. What do you do when you have a bad headache? Are you a Tylenol guy or home remedy?
Advil, I guess, is what I've been taking today.
But I woke up at like 3 in the morning.
So like, I don't know, 6 hours ago.
And I've been getting back up and nonstop taking more.
So it's not working, whatever I'm doing.
Sorry to hear that, buddy. I hope that it heals up pretty fast. Appreciate you. All right, I'm here. No, yeah, there we go. What's going on, Omar?
So, you know, Tesla is at a turning point that they've been working on for the last five years.
And it was interesting kind of hearing you look at the chart a little bit.
In 2019, 2020, as the Model 3 and Model Y were coming to market,
you had a pretty similar setup where the stock was kind of going in circles for a few years
as they waited to see whether the Model 3 ramp would be successful or not.
And that essentially kind of, I think, put a cap on what the market cap could be
while the market was waiting to see how that went.
You know, it could have destroyed the company.
It could have went well.
And I think we're kind of in a similar situation here.
The thesis for the last several years now has increasingly been about autonomy.
But before they actually have real driverless cars on the road, giving rides without a person in the driver's seat. I don't think you're going to see this stock
trade at a market cap above, you know, $2 trillion.
I think it's gotten in the, you know, between $1 and $2 trillion.
But you're not going to give, I think, a multi-trillion dollar valuation
for a business that has significant execution risk in, you know,
executing that thesis. But that's starting to change. In the next 60 days, you're going to see
Tesla launch their first driverless service in Austin. It's going to be a small pilot, you know,
10 to 20 cars giving rides in Austin.
But it's really something they've been working towards for five years.
And if the service is successful, which I expect it will be,
they're going to release the software to customers and expand to other cities.
So they're the only ones in the world who can give driverless cars off an ordinary car that just comes out of their factory line.
So that's really the number one thing that I'm watching as an investor is the robotaxi service in June.
incredibly secretive about this, but they're also within the next 60 days going to start production
of a new, more affordable Tesla model that's going to be produced on the same line as the Model Y.
So they have this new Model Y, you know, the Model Y is their bread and butter. It's their
best selling vehicle. About more than 50% of their revenue is Model Y. It sells more than all the other cars combined.
It's kind of like the iPhone for Tesla. It's their best-selling product and the cornerstone
of the business. And in the first quarter, they introduced a new version, ramped it in all four
factories at the same time, but they also prepared to make this new, more affordable model on the
same production line.
So between those two things, the robo-taxi service and these new, more affordable Tesla
models that'll bring Tesla's products to a newer price point, people who've never had
access to them before, the company's really at a turning point.
the company is really at a turning point. Now, you know, you're going to see a lot of negativity,
people saying, oh, this is a business that's collapsing, you know, sales are falling.
And you saw the same kind of arguments in Q1. People said, oh my God, look at this,
people said, oh my god, look at this small European country. Sales are down 75% or 50%.
And then you looked at the global numbers for the quarter, and it was less than 10%
down year over year, despite the Model Y ramp in four factories at the same time.
And you look at Rivian sales, for example, Rivian and Lucid are reporting earnings
today. Rivian deliveries were down 36% in the same quarter with no new product introduction.
You look at some of Ford's earnings yesterday, the tariff impact. Tesla's looking pretty strong
with a record high cash position. So, you know, I think the negativity,
the politically motivated negativity, people wanting to say that, you know, Elon is failing.
Also just, you know, the usual Tesla short sellers, they want to make these arguments that,
oh, you know, this is the end for the business.
Sales are totally collapsing.
But the reality is you need to actually have cars available in the market before you can
sell them and before they show up in registration data.
So for the new Model Y, which is made in China primarily, as well as Germany, in many cases, you're
putting these cars on ships.
So the cars will be produced in China in April.
They'll be put on a ship.
Then the ship has to actually, you know, go on the ocean to Germany or the UK or France
or whatever country they're destined for. They got to take them off
the ship. They got to get them to the delivery center. Then the customer has to pick them up.
So there's still a little bit of a supply related disruption from the new Model Y.
But some of the sales numbers that we're seeing from markets that do have inventory are pretty encouraging.
You're seeing China continue to be strong.
You're seeing the US posting good numbers.
And some European countries like Norway and Italy do very strong.
So you have a lot of people pushing very hard the narrative that Tesla's collapsing,
Elon's about to be fired, sales are tanking. But I think to people who really follow this company
closely and are looking deeply at the data, you can see that this is actually a company that I think is at a turning point that they've been working towards for many years.
And that as they execute, is going to break them out of this range that they've been constrained in since really, you know, the stock shot up like crazy in 2020 and 2021.
You know, the stock shot up like crazy in 2020 and 2021.
I love the way that you talk about it.
Yeah, there's a lot of big turning points coming and you really are harping on the point
there of RoboTaxi, Afmus, right?
What's coming in the future?
What's the timeline?
And it feels like we're one to two months out now from seeing that real change.
And so that's exciting because that could be something that gets more heavily factored
into upcoming earnings calls, discussions, pieces within the stock.
And also, it's not like we haven't...
We've had some big moves this year, but it's certainly been a little bit more stable, it
feels like, over the past couple of months, right?
Like, we're basically sitting where we were in March.
So really, the stock hasn't actually moved very much in two months, despite what feels like, you know,
wild swings to the upside and downside. You zoom out a little bit. It seems like the market itself
is also waiting for the things that you're talking about, Omar, right? We had the shakeups from,
you know, tariffs and sell-offs and general market conditions. And now it's like, okay,
let's see what happens when it comes to actual technology before we decided to where the stock's ultimately going to go.
Landon, would you like to jump?
Oh, yeah.
Omar, did you want to?
Yeah, I just wanted to make one last point.
You know, I think the high order bit for investors here is on autonomy.
So autonomy is having a moment and people have been kind of rolling their eyes at autonomy for some time.
People have been kind of rolling their eyes at autonomy for some time.
They saw it as kind of overhyped in the sense that people were saying,
oh my God, autonomous cars are going to change the world.
And in reality, getting the technology to a point where it was safe enough
took a long time and many years.
But now you look across the industry with generative AI,
things are changing. And in the media, they're starting to notice this. They're saying autonomous cars are finally having
their moment after years of development. Waymo now is giving 13 million driverless rides a year.
That number has grown 30% in the last 60 days.
So the growth in demand for these driverless cars, people love them.
Aurora is now doing fully driverless trucking routes in Texas.
And they're going to be expanding to Phoenix as well before the end of the year.
And Tesla, of course, is launching their rideshare service. We are just at the start of one of the most massive tech deployments
the auto industry has ever seen.
That's really going to change the way business is done.
So Waymo is doing about 250,000 rides a week.
There's about 50 billion rides in the world,
car trips in the world that happen every week. So you can see the difference between the drop
in the pond that autonomy represents today and the scale up that's needed. And Waymo recently, just yesterday, unveiled their new factory
where they take in cars and they outfit them with sensors
so that they can go on the road and be driverless cars.
And they say that once that's fully ramped,
they're going to have production capacity for tens of thousands of vehicles a year.
Well, Tesla, with the new Model Y
that they're going to be starting their ride share service in,
they've got capacity for over a million units a year.
And this is super underappreciated, I think.
In the race to put millions of self-driving cars
on every corner of the earth,
Tesla has a major leg up that I think
most investors haven't recognized yet.
Something in the background creeping on up. I hear you. I hear you. Landon, what's going on, man?
Well, great to hear your voice. Glad to have you back. How are all your projects going,
man? You got irons in all the fires, don't you? How's everything?
Things are good. I just bought a new condo, so I've been very busy with that and travel.
And so, yeah, I was traveling on a bunch of places last Tuesday. I was flying into New York
for about 36 hours, went to the Knicks game. They lost, then went to the new york stock exchange wednesday
morning that was pretty cool i actually recorded like a full podcast at the new york stock exchange
with their new head of etfs and that'll be getting distributed at some point so excited for that to
come out and then i was at the stock twits event and then flew back on thursday to puerto rico and
yeah i've just been uh spending a lot of time at Ikea and other places put together this condo.
So yeah, it's been a trip.
Fabulous.
Boy, I'm interested in that Wall Street trip.
I think that's probably on a number of our bucket lists, so to speak.
But thanks for having me here.
Sorry, Penny, you don't feel very well.
Kristen, our weekly friend and guest, is also not feeling well.
Shout out to Kristen Penny.
Everybody, maybe go give them a nice little post with some love for their springtime colds.
We're all getting outside and having fun, and they're saddled with their spring colds so far.
But yeah, Omar said it's a turning point, and I love that about Tesla.
Isn't it exciting to be involved with Tesla?
I don't care if you own a car, if you own the merch, if you own the stock.
There's no doubt about it.
Tesla is exciting.
Well, what else gets me excited, and why did I get the Tesla in the first place?
And the answer is the car business.
answer is the car business. I love cars. And I wonder how long that Wolf will have me on the show
I love cars.
as Tesla transitions away from actually being a car company into humanoid robots,
into autonomous driving. These are the things that are driving the stock and driving the
company's value up in the next five years, doubt about it i pinned up at the top there
got into a little little online jest with the with the weirdos over at one of these automotive
publications a little bit of a clickbait company i don't really know them or anything so maybe
they're okay people but they they decided this week to attack something that I love, and that is automotive design.
You probably even know, if you don't know anything about the car business, you probably know some of the names, like a stagecoach in the late 1800s up to the
Tesla Cybertruck that Franz von Holzhausen has designed. And man, he has got the pedigree.
He came up through a system and he learned from the masters. And these masters, some of them are
still alive in their late 90s. The masters are the designers of the Lamborghinis, the Ferraris, the Lotus cars that James Bond drove that Elon fell in love with.
And these guys, you can see in my pin up at the top, did something that made cars absolutely a in-my-bloodstream passion.
And that looking at these vehicles we have vehicles
in our lives to get us from point a to v and that's what cyber cab will do but cyber cab is
going to do this with franz design and this is going to be the next iconic vehicle you've seen
volkswagen beetles all over the world for Ford Mustangs, Model Ts back 100 years ago.
These were the volume production vehicles of our time.
And now we have Model Y and the design of the Teslas that Franz von Holzhausen has shared with us is very important to me.
It's very special.
It's what makes me passionate about these vehicles.
Please share with me by just jumping
through that post above and thanks very much for listening thanks for putting up with my weird
automotive design talk in a stock space but that's why i'm here that's why i love it tesla forever
thanks very much wolf i think there's a lot of passion for the design, and that is absolutely a big part of this.
I don't think anybody is too worried about your obsession over it.
I think there's plenty of those up here that share it as well, would be my guess.
Ryan, what's your thoughts on everything we've been talking about, design as well as what's upcoming?
Yeah, thanks, Wolf i think omar brought
up a ton of great points uh landon brought up some great design points too um i love the energy that
landon you always bring it's great um so i guess i wanted to talk about uh like with with ro robo taxi and cyber cab and uh autonomy rolling out soon
you know it's like it's like people are not really paying attention to the the energy business and
and the car business as much anymore um which which makes a lot of sense like uh and so I feel similar to how Omar does, where like, basically, like these are not really going to make a big impact on the actual stock until Wall Street sees that there's actual growth and there's actual profit being generated from, from this business unit.
So that means they're going to have to roll it out and then they're going to have to show a profit and then it's going to have to be growing.
So, you know, that could take a little bit.
In the meantime, Tesla is kind of just floating because of the energy business.
Like the energy business is growing quickly.
quickly it's it's strongly profitable and that's that's pretty different from 2000
It's strongly profitable.
then to 2017 through 2018 or so when like they were ramping model three uh but it wasn't like
they had a huge cash cushion in fact in fact like it was pretty hairy for a while. So I think it's like a great time to be an investor.
I mean, they have so much cash.
Elon is more well-recognized and well-known for his accomplishments in a bunch of different industries.
He's demonstrated a ton of success previously.
They have more good
talent than ever before. And they have access to even better talent than before. Like if somebody's
graduating from a top tier university, like MIT or Caltech or, you know, Stanford, like where are
those best engineers wanting to go? Like they want to work at tesla they want
to work at spacex um of course companies like google and apple will also pull great talent
but that's that's those are the companies that you want to be invested in it's like
where the best most talented most capable most passionate people are going. And the end result will be the products
and services that customers want. I mean, basically that's all CyberCab and Robotaxi
are a product of. The input is the talent and the people making great decisions every day. And then the output is
useful goods and services. So if we want to be invested in those useful goods and services that
generate profit, then we should be choosing the companies that have the best people. So
like, I think Tesla has the best people and it's showing right now with the energy business, cars will eventually get back to growth. sees that there's a fleet of maybe a thousand vehicles that generate i don't know i don't want
to put a number let's say x number of dollars per per mile and they see that a huge percentage of
that is profit like 80 of that of those x dollars are profit and then all of a sudden like you could just flick on a switch and then overnight the the fleet grows from a thousand to a million you know because not not every single
vehicle is going to be robo taxi capable uh like it's it's going to be geography dependent regulation dependent um yeah so and but eventually like the
fleet's going to be growing substantially like they have so many cars being manufactured every
every year uh being sold every year and a greater percentage of them are purchasing full self-driving.
So you just have like a ginormous profit center, uh, that's, that's brewing with autonomy and once the big money managers recognize that this is the opportunity
that, I mean, they're, they just are going gonna have to plow into the stock it's not
it's not like i mean they just won't be able to miss it like they're gonna be
getting phone calls saying like hey why is this thing ballooning when like of course
it's gonna balloon like eon's best friends with donald trump and and he's demonstrated fantastic success previously with
all his other companies like why is why are we not uh allocated why don't we have a huge percentage
allocation in our portfolio in this company like it's it's just a total no-brainer but people are
missing it right now uh so once there's some social proof and other people are plowing into
it, uh, the profit is, is showing on the, on the financial statements, then I think people will
start to recognize what we're all seeing. Like this thing is, is super undervalued. So, uh,
yeah, I think those are my thoughts. Thanks. Thanks for having me on.
Yeah. Great having you on. I appreciate the perspective that you get. And it's interesting,
you know, I think when we go through these spaces, like this is ultimately what people want to hear.
There's a lot of discussion around, you know, uh, Tesla being, Oh, you know, there's all the good,
all the bad, there's all the good, all the bad.
There's all the people that are talking about the politics side and the other side.
And I find that a lot of the people in depth just kind of want to talk to the tech, right?
Like, I don't know, Omar, if you noticed this, but the videos where we just talk like numbers and tech and data on Gigacast, like all seem to do the best.
It seems to be like what the actual uh fan base ultimately
cares about i feel like a lot of the noise just gets maybe the likes on social but it's not
exactly what i uh what i would have uh kind of completely guessed but it's what the data shows
and so well it's a real differentiation you know between this and other cars and this is what the
automotive business does very well is they fool people.
And so when you go into a Chrysler store and you look at something that they have that might be an EV,
they convince you that this is just like the Tesla.
Oh yeah, this has got the same lane keeping stuff that the Tesla has. Oh yeah, this is the safest vehicle in the world, just like the Tesla.
And that's what our friends tell us about their cars
but it's just not the case the technology is the difference
bingo captain welcome to the stage what's going on hey thank you thank you for the invite my first
time being a speaker in your space well uh i mean most people here know me I normally ask
questions I'm not here to to tell you anything specific and special but since
it's my first time just gonna share for me it's quite simple as somebody who
work in the company but in a different market like we're four years behind it
feels like we don't have FSD we don't have anythingST. We don't have anything special. We just have the beautiful and very safe car to offer.
But in our market, we are fighting against almost 40 different Chinese cars.
So on the technology side, we don't have a lot to compare.
I'm sorry, we don't have a lot to compete.
We are just another car, an amazing car, a very safe car. But I can only talk about the
future. Some people are very skeptics when it comes to the future of what technology should
be or might be, at least in my market and I'm in Israel. But at the same time, once FSD will be
available in Europe in my market also, that means that it will help us sorry it will help
us to push another like in volume another to a different set of customers so all the people who
is buying cars nowadays just for the capabilities of the car in the future once I will have I will
have FSD to sell them that means that a lot of other people will come, maybe a new generation of customers, maybe people from different companies.
By that time, they will have like two years old car, three years old car, and we will be the only car who can sell FSD or some sort of autonomy.
So that means obviously a bigger volume.
And that means for the stock market, that means uh for the stock market i
mean for the analyst at least you know big growth and uh yeah and like omar said obviously the future
is autonomous and robots but all the people who are looking at numbers obviously we have europe
to open so another like 400 million customers you know so that's what I'm looking for. That's
what I'm waiting for as a shareholder and as a Tesla employee.
I, um, I, even as you're talking, you know, I, I just scroll through the Tesla timeline. I
appreciate you coming up here and sharing, uh, great to have you on for your first space that
you're doing with us. And, you know, one of the videos that was posted earlier today,
and I'd never seen this before, but Omar, I mean, maybe has your Tesla been doing this for a while
where when you're doing a three point turn, it automatically changes between reverse and forward
drive without you having to even change anything as you're doing the turn? Yeah, it's really nice, actually. I mean, they're always kind of simplifying the cars.
And the same AI that's used to drive the car, it also provides a lot of features for you in
manual mode. So for example, when I change lanes on my Tesla, and I put the turn signal on,
and then I change lanes, it automatically turns
the turn signal off because it knows that I finished changing lanes because it's got the
self-driving AI built in. When I want to go from forward to reverse, it can actually see and predict
that I probably want to do this. And then all I have to do is turn the wheel and hit the brake,
and then I can reverse into the other direction. So from top to bottom they've really incorporated AI into this product in
ways that make your life easier and I was in Mexico recently driving a golf cart and the turn
signal on this thing was being left on all the time because I'm so used to my Tesla's AI
handling this stuff for me. It is a bunch of small little things, but once you get used to it,
you can't go back. It just makes life a lot simpler.
Yeah, those things are unique. And if you guys ever hear more of them, I'm always curious to
learn more about those different little pieces that they've added uh i did see we got lincoln up
on stage lincoln how's it going uh good well thanks for inviting me up i um um this way i was
in the car fsd is driving me to work um i'm running a little late today but uh driving with fsd is the
best tesla just posted something
they said uh share your shit what was it are you in hurry mode
no why you don't want to get fired do you you better put hurry mode on
no no um i uh yeah hurry mode's man. Hurry mode is like actually hurry. Like it doesn't mess around.
And I actually put it in standard now because hurry zone,
I only use that when I'm really in trouble.
But Tesla just asked a question on the official account,
share a video of your favorite FSD moment.
But I don't know.
I have so many good FSD moments that that it's amazing 1328 is just awesome
i can't believe we're gonna have unsupervised soon and we're gonna get even better software
because it's so good and i'm like omar i'm i'm really jones in to get i don't know if anyone
says joneson anymore i do um jones in to get like the next version um it'll be really exciting uh i remember the step up to 12
was really big we waited a long time for that and then the step to 13 was huge and i can't imagine
the next big one so yeah things are going well i'm really excited i know there's a lot of challenges
in tesla right now but they're gonna push through we've got some big stuff coming
yeah ron yeah i'm jones in for the next update as well big stuff coming.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, I'm jones in for the next update as well.
So thank you.
Uh, I guess I want, I wanted to go back to a point that Omar brought up at the beginning of the space, which is like, you know, they're Tesla's in this transition
period where it's similar to 2017 and 18 when they were ramping Model 3.
Now they're wanting to ramp autonomy.
And it just seems like Wall Street's not getting it.
One similar thing that happened back then was at the end of 2017 and also kind of the beginning of 2018,
there was like a big uh like a wave of layoffs
and you know tesla always does layoffs like they they continuously want to quote unquote
trim the fat um but and they and they do you know small layoffs on on different teams but
in 2007 i think it was the end of 2017 like yeah there was just this huge
push to save costs uh there was kind of this realization that like a lot of the solar city team
uh they came in there they were some of the team was not not of the same caliber as those at Tesla. So it was like, okay, anybody who was underperforming needs to go.
And then there's also the realization that there's a lot of inefficient spending.
So Elon kind of like doged Tesla during that time where any cost that was above $50,000
had to go to the CFO and be approved.
And like every, like tons of layoffs, tons of expense cutting.
And then in April, I think it was April 2024.
So April last year, they did the same.
And if you do the same timeline, then for that to hit the books and for Wall Street to recognize that their operating leverage is good or improving, that would hit the same time that the stock ran back in 2019.
That would mean that it would hit around the end of this year.
So I think that's just one more parallel to what Omar was saying.
I think there's a lot of stuff that lines up for there to be tangible things that affect
the stock in a positive way soon.
Who knows really on timing,
but I just think that's another parallel
to what Omar was saying.
Yeah, I like that.
It's a good point.
And there are a lot of these ideas
that have a lot of crossover.
Lincoln, just because we have you up here right now,
what's your thoughts on some of the
upcoming timelines that we're looking at
in regards to RoboTaxi and
some of the different, potentially new vehicle,
different pieces like that?
Sorry, I need to take
five.
You're good.
You're good.
I looked it up. I asked Grok, I need to take five. You're good. You're good. No worries.
You know, I looked it up.
I asked Grok this wolf, this very important question.
And Grok says that Jones Alley in New York City was like the tenderloin is in San Francisco.
So that's why we call it Jonesing.
Yeah, I think Ryan brought up a great point which is you know the
company is really in this transition so you know when they went into making the model three
they started by selling it into the u.s and then canada and then international markets
we're at the very early days of this autonomy transition. And it seems kind of crazy
to people. They're like, well, you know, why aren't you focusing on the auto business? Why
aren't you doing a minivan or a compact car? And I think long term, this autonomy focus is
going to pay off long term. It's going to be really clear to people in the
coming years with everything that's happening in generative AI, in real world AI, that focusing
on autonomy was the right move. But today, you are selling it in the US, Canada, Mexico,
Puerto Rico, and just recently China.
Europe doesn't have it yet.
Israel doesn't have it yet.
Most of the world is just using that same Tesla product that they've been using for several years now.
So it's taking some time to get it scaled internationally,
taking some time to get it scaled internationally, but they're making major progress.
but they're making major progress.
We saw a video of FSD Europe just recently in testing in the Netherlands.
They received an exemption there to start using it on roads with their Tesla employees.
And as Europe gets FSD support added, you're going to see 30 to 60 additional countries. So from five to 35 to 65
countries with FSD. So this transition is difficult. It takes time, but that is ultimately what makes
it defensible and what makes it difficult for others to catch up.
So this is a major transition of the company
going into sort of an autonomous age.
It'll take time.
It's not available in most markets today still,
even though we in the U.S. like to talk about it a lot.
But I think time will prove it to be
absolutely the right number one focus for the
company hey well sorry i was walking into work before but um so yeah i think uh i think the
timeline is really hard to say um i really believe in the june um launch of uh the service. They've pushed it so many times.
So that's really exciting.
And I think we'll know a lot more after that
once we start seeing it perform.
And hopefully it'll get another version out
to these early access people in Texas and Omar.
And then we'll be able to get a better feel for it.
It's really hard to say though.
Like I think what Elon said,
it'd be in Austin and California
and then some other big cities by the end of the year.
I would be really happy
if it got to just California and Austin,
honestly, by the end of the year.
If we got another major city, I think one other big city, that would be a huge win.
And because it's going to take a lot of people to get things going wherever they're going.
So I don't know.
I think if we got more than another city, like if we got three or four, that would be
huge.
But I'd be happy with just honestly, just the two.
And then starting to see some early access people maybe get it and, you know, get some miles in and get it tested.
So, yeah, I'm not sure, but I'm definitely excited to see what's going to come in.
I'm not sure, but I'm definitely excited to see what's going to come in.
So I live in the greater Phoenix area and Waymos have been driving around without a person in the driver's seat for a couple of years plus.
Now, people don't like blink bat an eye if they're from here.
here and and once you take a drive or a ride in one of them then like upon reflection you're like
yeah how is this not the case for every vehicle like we're in 2025 there's so many car crashes
every day and my experience right now was so great like how come how come, how come people are still driving? Like that's insane. So I think
because of that realization, it's like, you know, I think other others when when they get into a car
and they realize it's such an easy, comfortable experience, if they could have that every day at a low cost for the car that they
already own then they're gonna want that for sure it's it's and and i i my personal belief
is that they will pay for it but the good thing is that i don't even have to be right like
i mean like if they're already willing to pay for a tesla then any incremental you know value is is
just going to be cherries on top like they're gonna they're gonna want this anyway actually
uh i also wanted to talk about neural link so maybe the segue here is that like with with teslas
or neural link i i get comments on my posts on X or on YouTube where people say, I'm 55 years old.
I am looking forward to the day that autonomy can drive me around safely. I'm concerned that
when I'm 70 years old, I'm not going to be able to drive safely, or I'm going to want
help around the house. So I look forward to the day that Optimus robots are helping me.
And then in the case of Neuralink, like I'm concerned about having a brain disorder. So
I'm, I'm thankful for, you know, Elon working on this project.
Like I get comments like this all the time.
And like Elon's working on such fantastic,
real problems that people experience every day.
And he's trying to help them with all of his projects.
So, and they're making great progress too.
So like in the case of the third patient at Neuralink, like he has ALS, he can't speak. And now after getting the Neuralink,
he has more hope for the future. He has greater purpose for living every day.
He wants to help the Neuralink team get more data.
He wants to make this a better device for future patients.
It's improved his quality of life.
He's able to go outside now.
So the same thing that he's been experiencing in the form of hope and inspiration for the future, like that's what others are going to be experiencing with autonomy.
And maybe most of us in this space are going to think like it's fun and useful for everyday life, but for some older folks or for some disabled folks, it's going to be a necessity.
It's going to be a real, real game changer with a lot of value add to their life.
So I think Gally Russell of HyperChange, he always has this quote, which is the bigger the problem, the bigger the opportunity.
So if, you know, like there's this real human side where it's solving this real problem.
But if you're looking at the stock side, then like this is a huge opportunity.
Like it's going to really affect people's lives in a positive way.
And Tesla will benefit from that well put there ryan great convo got another 15 minutes here we're going to keep running through
uh if there's anything specific from the audience you guys want us to touch on feel free to drop me
a message or a tm as well uh emp i see you chilling up here with us i know we talked very
briefly at the start just coming back over to you for a second see if you had any other thoughts
questions things on your mind and he might also be live streaming as well so i'm going to give
him a minute there no problem okay so just kind of uh one of the other pieces that i did want to
just touch on with you omar because this got got mentioned in Elon's call was him pulling back from Doge.
And I do feel like maybe I've seen him tweeting a little bit less about it.
I don't know. Maybe you can tell me if you think you see anything different.
Maybe Trump's making up for it with his tweets.
But yeah, I just feel like maybe he's rotating a little bit more back in.
a little bit more back in. Maybe there's a little bit more content on Tesla from his page. But yeah,
Maybe there's a little bit more content on Tesla from his page.
But yeah, just curious if you're looking at anything there.
just curious if you're looking at anything there. Yeah. I mean, I have noticed him tweeting about
Tesla more, focusing on Tesla more. I think with his sort of, you know, special government
employee status, which allows him to avoid making financial disclosures and
going with some of these ethics requirements
because, of course, there's a lot of different scrutiny of government officials.
This was never intended, I think, to be a long-term thing.
I think he was kind of speedrunning setting up the organization.
They're going to continue to work.
But you have seen him posting more about Tesla, giving more interviews about
Tesla. You know, he appeared on Fox News. So I wouldn't underestimate the impact of Elon's focus.
He's the kind of guy where if he puts a little bit of attention into something, it can make a pretty big difference. So yeah, you could consider
it maybe sort of a leading indicator, the focus Tesla, Tesla's being given from Elon versus some
of his other priorities. And it seems like it is much more of a focus. And I think that's going to translate into deliveries and technical
milestones like the RoboTaxi launch.
Penny, you got any thoughts here?
I'm sorry, man.
My head's pounding.
I know.
I know.
We've gotten some comments with some advice for you.
People are coming in with trying to help.
I'll check the comments.
Okay, well, here's another one that I'll throw at you, Omar.
If anyone else wants to jump in on these, feel free to.
But a question.
Someone said, any word on extended wheelbase model y some rumors said it might start
in china after last week yeah so you know i had heard a rumor about this from someone who gave
me some credible information and they said yeah you know um for the third row version of the model
y they're actually going to make it bigger.
They'll actually have a legitimate third row. I don't know if this is true or not,
but we do have these sort of more affordable vehicles that are supposed to start production and be produced on the same line as the Model Y. So I think the best thing for them to do would be kind of like in the iPhone 6 when they did an iPhone 6
plus and an iPhone 6 and they eventually did an iPhone mini or an iPhone SE as well is just take
the Model Y which is already extremely well selling it's doing more than a million units a year, take that supply chain,
scale it up to a little bigger version with a third row, and maybe a little bit of a smaller
version, a compact version, produce it on the same supply chain, ramp it up quickly in four
factories around the world, and expand the TAM for the Model Y by being able to address
customers who need a third row or who need a smaller car. And you see this often. I mean,
you know, I have a cousin, for example, who just had a third kid and they had a Model Y.
And they said, well, we need to get a bigger car because we can't fit three car seats in the second row.
And if there was a really legitimate third row that could fit a car seat, then I think they would have loved to buy that.
But they had to buy, I think, a gas-powered SUV just for the size.
powered SUV just for the size. So taking the Model Y supply chain, which is already geared up for a
million units, and expanding that into a bigger form factor and a smaller form factor, I think
they could probably get above, you know, 3 million units. And, you know, a lot of people have kind of
said, well, you know, another more affordable
vehicle built on the Model Y platform, that's not really that exciting.
It's, you know, probably going to look like the Model Y.
We want something really new.
But the flip side of doing that, of building this new, more affordable vehicle on the Model
Y line, is that you're going to be able to introduce it very quickly. You're going to be able
to start production, ramp it up, get these cars out there where people can take delivery and do
it with a fraction of the CapEx that would be required to build a new factory and a new
production line. So they've been very, very quiet about this. So quiet that people don't seem
to even really believe it's happening. But I think they potentially have some big surprises for us in
store with these new, more affordable vehicles. And I'm personally hoping that we see kind of
a Model Y Mega and a Model Y Mini.
a Model Y Mega, and a Model Y Mini.
I want to agree with that.
That's so exciting because if you look,
reminder, this is the best-selling vehicle in the world
of any kind, of any fuel source, from any manufacturer.
And if you go to the website here at tesla.com
right now in north america you see exactly one model y version and so it's quite impressive you
know corolla that used to have the the lead here would have seven different major variations of the Corolla in order to get to those top sales
numbers. But here Model Y has one. So opening up to the downside, opening up to the longer wheelbase,
more passenger, the upside is just absolutely genius here. I hope to see Tesla do it and do it
soon because people are wanting to buy these versions yeah we've definitely seen the interest what do you think are i mean just to anybody i mean
landon or omar whoever what's some of the best ways that they can gauge you know continued
interest i feel like a lot of us have given anecdotal stories but just curious how you guys think they can do a better market gauge.
I mean, I think the best thing they can do is just post really strong deliveries.
And I think deliveries are going to surprise people this quarter.
I would refer people back to 2024. In the first quarter, you had pretty weak deliveries, driven in part by the introduction and ramp-up of the new Model 3, which is lower volume but was much more challenging than the Model Y ramp-up.
And that really drove a pretty crazy second half of the year for Tesla stock. It went from being, you know, one of the worst performers to being one of the strongest performers in the second half of the year as it recovered.
IQ2 numbers, people who are expecting that the deliveries are going to tank because nobody
wants to buy a Tesla, I think they're going to be surprised to see what the impact of this new
Model Y ramp-up is. And these cars are still getting all around the world. A lot of them are
in boats. They've been ordered by people, but they're just waiting for the car to get to
them. I think as we look at May and June deliveries, people are going to be surprised.
I think we're going to see deliveries for the quarter well in excess of 400,000 units.
yeah i think that's a proper way to put it okay uh well listen there's different ways you can
look through it i also appreciate those that are dming and the comments below i definitely read
through all of them so i do appreciate it uh we had another question here omar this one's for you
as well someone said isn't the model 3 the smaller version of the Model Y?
Curious to hear how Omar sees the Y Mini being a differentiator from the Model 3.
Well, the Model 3 is the sedan version of the Model Y, which is great.
But people don't really like sedans much anymore.
I mean, I have a Model 3 Performance,
and it's really fun to drive.
It goes 0 to 60 under 3 seconds.
I like sedans.
I don't need the extra space of an SUV,
but people really like crossovers.
They like the sort of hatchback.
They can put their bike in there and stuff like that.
So this is going to be even cheaper than a Model 3.
And what they're doing essentially is using their next generation vehicle platform.
So Tesla set out a few years ago and they said, can we cut half the cost out of the Model 3 and Y?
half the cost out of the Model 3 and Y. So the Model 3 and Y, you know, their average COGS per
vehicle is about $35,000 or so, or $36,000. So they said, can we cut half the cost out of the
vehicle? Can we make a vehicle for $18,000 instead of $36,000? And then maybe we could sell it for $25,000 or $30,000. So they developed a whole new
sort of supply chain for the car. They're using these new motors, for example,
that don't use any rare earths in the motors. And the cost of these motors, they've brought it under $1,000. So really, a much more scalable
drivetrain, much lower cost. They're moving to, for example, the 48 volt architecture,
and this allows them to reduce the copper wiring in the car. You know, there's miles of wiring
inside a modern car. This allows them to reduce the wiring by 75%
just by moving to 48 volt. And, you know, steer by wire, things like this, they eliminate a lot
of parts, they simplify. So they would really be coming up with a hatchback, a smaller version, but that is actually lower cost than even the Model 3.
And, you know, if they can get this at, you know, some of the rumors we've heard are a price point
really between $25,000 to $30,000 in China. I think this would be explosive. If you look at
Tesla in China, they're the number two EV brand of any kind,
which is insanely impressive for a foreign company. They're doing extremely well in China.
But BYD has reached much higher volumes by selling into much lower price segments where
there's a ton of additional volume. I think if Tesla comes up with something in the 25 to 30 K price range in
China, it's, there's just so much potential for growth there. The Chinese consumer loves the
product. Nobody's talking about politics there. China made up 40% of Tesla's deliveries in the
first quarter. So I think that could be huge, a smaller model Y for China, as well as, you know, sort of a bigger version, a third row version. And yeah, I think, you know, there is potentially some cannibalization of the Model 3. I don't know where, you know, sort of the Model 3 goes long term.
But taking this next generation platform, essentially the parts that they're using for the cyber cab and introducing a new lower cost version of the Model Y, that's what I think the plan is essentially.
And as for the U.S., it's probably going to be a little more expensive than the Chinese version, just given the cost of the U.S. factories versus China.
costs of the U.S. factories versus China. But if they can get this at around $32,000,
with the $7,500 point of sale credit, it becomes a $25,000 car here in the United States too.
So, you know, take what people already love, they love the Model Y,
and make a more affordable version, expand the TAM by hitting bigger sizes,
by hitting smaller sizes.
You know, to go to that example from the iPhone 6 again, when they made the iPhone 6 Plus
and the iPhone 6, all of the internals were the same.
It's the same chip, same screen, same everything, just a little bigger.
They were able to squeeze additional volume out of that and leverage what they already
had to expand the TAM just by offering slightly different form factors.
And I think there's a good opportunity for Tesla to do that here.
I love it.
You nailed it.
And right at the top of the hour, always fun running these Tesla
conversations. I know that there's so many people that have so many questions. And honestly, I feel
like we took a good amount of questions from the crowd today. And I was looking through and hitting
the DM. So hopefully this was super helpful for everybody. Big thank you to my co-host. Thank you
to Penny for making it even with a headache. Omar for always helping to lead the conversation.
Thank you, Captain. Eli for joining up. Lincoln, Ryan, Landon, for all the passion that you guys bring.
Always just an amazing top-tier panel, and I appreciate having you guys up here.
So big thank you to the crew.
I do have a follow-up space today that's going to be right off the back of this, so if you're
in the audience, feel free to stick around.
We are going to be rolling into some new topics still in that area of finance.
I actually have a publicly traded company that has been going crazy this week
that is going to be up here talking with us.
And I'm super excited to get into that.
I believe that we have the CEO.
Are you already on the account
behind this Rants Plus account?
Yes, I am.
Jay Madhuk.
Fantastic.
Jay, welcome to the panel.
I appreciate you coming on.
I hear that you've done some Twitter spaces
before in your time.
Yes, I have.
Yes, I have.
I'd love to hear that.
Absolutely love it.
A very long of the spaces where you've come to the right place.
I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to adjust the top of the space to change this up.
But I'm super excited for this conversation.
And I've just been following, you know, Oxford.
It's been hard not to this week with everything've just been following you know oxford's been hard not to uh this week
with everything that's been going on and you know an amazing obviously 84 move this week on oxbr uh
you guys are engaging in the provision of property and casualty reinsurance down by the gulf coast
and so we're just going to talk through this area but you're doing stuff in a very unique way by
utilizing new technology tokenization other areas that is really
starting to permeate its way into public markets now. And so I'm super excited to have you on.
I want to turn it over to you, perhaps just for a brief, quick note on your background,
your personal journey, how you ended up here, and then we'll get started.
Yes, thank you for that. Yeah, super excited to be here. Jay Madhu, I'm the CEO,
Chairman of Oxbridge.
We're a publicly traded company on the NASDAQ.
We're a reinsurance company.
Reinsurance is insurance or reinsurance for insurance underwriters.
So think Lloyd's of London, Berkshire Hathaway, large examples of reinsurers.
We're one such reinsurer.
We're out of the Cayman Islands.
So my background is capital
markets. I've been part of four different companies that have gone public. Three are on the NASDAQ,
one's in the New York Stock Exchange. The genesis of Shoran's Plus started out from the New York
Stock Exchange company. That's called HCI Group. We were buying hundreds of millions of dollars
in reinsurance. We looked to see how we could get on the other side of the trade because
we were never, we were paying out 45 cents of every dollar that we were making for reinsurance.
And obviously as good entrepreneurs, we started a insurance underwriter.
So now as an insurance underwriter, we're democratizing the business of reinsurance.
It's an asset class that's never been available to folks
unless they're putting five or 10 million bucks to work.
What we're doing is saying,
why should this be something that's accessible
only by the large players?
So we democratize it by raising capital
through Assurance Plus.
AML and KYC is done in about three minutes.
Somebody logs in, AML, KYC, wires in their mon minutes. Somebody logs in AML, KYC wires in their monies.
And with as little as $5,000, they have access to an asset class that's never been democratized
before from any part of the world. We target a 42% coupon on our tokenized security and one of our
securities, our tokens. And the other one going in this year, we're targeting a 20% return.
I love it. And we're going to dive deeper into all these numbers. But I think in essence,
what you just stated right off the bat, there's a unique industry here of reinsurance. It has
never allowed small players to dabble in the field. Like you said, typically a minimum
investment size there has been 5 million plus. And now you guys are opening up access,
taking this industry, trying to break it down and open it up to everyday investors. And you've had a lot of success as well
in a background in the public markets. As we get started here, again, the ticker for those
that want to look it up is OXBR that we're going to be talking about. And this advertisement for
OXBR is a paid advertisement. It's intended for informational purposes only. We don't make
recommendations or endorsements of specific stocks on our spaces. Investing involves risk, including the possibility of losing your principal. Please always conduct
thorough due diligence before investing and utilize these spaces as a tip of the iceberg
to start your research process and really dive in to these companies and get a better understanding.
I love that 30-second elevator pitch right there. I think that makes a lot of sense.
Let's just start with the bigger picture, though.
As a publicly traded company on NASDAQ, how can you help our listeners understand really
deeper into that core business model?
And you have multiple subsidiaries.
How do they all fit together into one publicly traded company?
Yeah, so compliance and transparency, I think, in any asset class or any investment is paramount.
So as a publicly traded company, we're not only mandated by the SEC, but we also have PCO, we audited financials.
So we cover those pieces.
What we now have as a company, we're out of the Cayman Islands.
We're also mandated by sima which is the
cayman island monetary authority so the way our company the flow through of our company is you
have ovexbr which is the pubco below that we have assurance plus as one of our subsidiaries
shorts plus has a reinsurance subsidiary that's mandated by SEMA, regulated. And then we have insurance plus also that goes out, raises capital,
issues at tokenized security.
So it's a security token.
It's not crypto.
It follows the do's and don'ts of the SEC.
And these are one-year notes.
So security, paramount, compliance, and look through is very important.
So we're taking the best of the SEC and we're taking the best of blockchain and putting it on chain.
I know some of my speakers up here, their ears just perked up as you're talking about this.
So really, it looks like you're trying to bridge traditional finance and emerging blockchain technology.
When you think about your company's overall mission, business strategy, how do you describe
that?
Yes.
So the insurance plus raises the capital, downstreams it, downstreams it into the reinsurance
subsidiary.
The reinsurance subsidiary goes out and puts this money to work into reinsurance contracts
currently we're a reinsurance company in terms of we we underwrite uh homeowners reinsurance
but as as we go forward we have the opportunity through dsn blockchain which is another subsidiary
that sits under insurance plus we have the opportunity to do various different things. So if we can
democratize, if we can tokenize reinsurance, absolutely. There's other things that we can
do as we go forward. But reinsurance is a $700 billion TAM market. And currently our focus is
the state of Florida. Florida is the 14th largest economy in the world. And that's our background.
That's our backyard. That's where we play in all these putting these monies to work over here into
assurance plus growing insurance plus but what we also have is assurance plus has
we we have aspirations to spin out assurance plus in short order into its own publicly traded company, thus, um, decoupling it from Oxbridge.
So as investors, we have a lot of really interesting things going on.
You have Oxbridge, the publicly traded company below that you have assurance.
Plus the subsidiary that is in the business of RWA or web three
tokenization of, uh, of reinsurance where the rwa is reinsurance so exciting things
i often you know i like to leave with this question and kind of get it out of the way there
this is a very interesting industry to me it makes sense right there's a whole market here
like you're talking about massive tam why does it need blockchain technology why does it need uh you know this
decentralized technology versus what people have traditionally used in this industry beforehand
what's what's the necessity behind that so this is this is this is the million-dollar question, right? So what does blockchain really do for this industry?
So in order to gain access to this, let's just say if a bunch of us got together and we were buying this $100 million building and we had to put 20% down and we only had 5%, which is $5 million.
and we only had 5%, which is $5 million.
To raise that other $15 million,
if we got three guys with $5 million each,
AML, KYC, and managing that cap table is very simple.
But if we started taking in money at $5,000 clips,
five, $10, $20,000 clips,
that would be a monumental process.
You'd have to hire people,
and it would take weeks to go through all of this.
Blockchain allows us to do the various different checks and balances, make sure everything
is put together in a precise way and roll this out into whatever industry we want.
So blockchain allows access to capital.
Capital can come in in our industry, for example, in my, what we're doing.
Anybody in any part of the world can pick up their phone, log in, wire in their monies.
And with as little as 5,000 bucks, they have a seat at the table, not 5 million.
But why is that interesting?
That's interesting because in the state of Florida, for example, that's where we write
majority of our business.
In the state of Florida, 45 cents out of every dollar an insurance company takes in they pay out to
reinsurance that's their single largest expense so once capital once additional capital comes in
into the space it'll automatically it should it should drop down that 45 cents to some number lower than 45
cents. So a couple of different things happen over here. A, the general public has access to an asset
class they've never had access to in the past. B, when this money comes in, when you have all
of this capital that comes in over here, it will reduce that 45 cents to some number lower than
45 cents, right? It could go to 43, 41, 40, whatever that number is.
So the two good things that happen is people have access to this investment, investment class,
but the homeowner in those states will start getting a slightly reduced insurance policy cost as well.
Because if the single largest expense is
reinsurance and you bring down that expense to some number smaller than whatever it is
everybody benefits right so blockchain meets sec you have access to capital that comes in
everybody wins lowering of interest rates pardon me not interest rates but homeowners insurance rates
win-win i i agree and it's a good point right there, which is the blockchain allows us to scale, really, in my eyes. All right. So real quick, just to double back for those that joined
in late, talking about reinsurance here, which is really a fascinating market. It's just never
going to go away. Reinsurance is that insurance for insurance companies. It's the mechanism where
the insurance company, the insurer, you have to diffuse your risk somehow, right?
And insurance is a great business to be in. Don't get me wrong. I mean, a lot of insurance,
right? You're talking about their biggest expense is to reinsurance probably far more so than it is
to actually pay out claims. I had a friend who had an insurance company and they paid out like
one or two percent,
right, actually ended up claiming. And so great business to be in, but you still have to diffuse
your risk. And so how do they diffuse risk? They diffuse it through these reinsurance companies.
And that's why there is always going to be a business for this, because people legally have
to have insurance and then the insurance companies need to diffuse that risk. And so, you know,
if somebody right here comes in
and insurer covers a client for a $10 million disaster policy,
you're telling me, hey, they're probably going to transfer
$4.5 million of that risk to a reinsurer, right?
So you have all these people out there.
They're already doing the work for you, these big companies.
But it makes sense why, hey, this was never an area
that was open in the market to people that
had smaller portions. So I say all this to say, when we look at the company right now,
what's happening right now? Because there's obviously news going on, the stock's up
75% in the past week, right? It's really moving. So what's going on with the company right now?
with the company right now?
Why are people like this insurance, this industry makes sense? Why are people perking up now?
this industry makes sense?
Why are people perking up now?
I think it's part of all the interests
that blockchain has brought through
the RWA space and tokenization
of this asset is brought through.
We just got back from Token 2049 in Dubai,
had some great meetings with folks over here.
And there are various different chains
that are going into the RWA space or are in the rwa space and there's a lot of activity going on over there
so we're we're raising capital over here we're doing not only through our yearly tokenization
that we're doing our one-year tokens but we recently also announced uh an mou with plume
we're talking with some other folks over here so
so a lot of really cool things are happening in our ecosystem that now brings forth not only this
asset class but it also brings forth the uh the thought process that people are looking at at
something that they've never thought through before or thought of before. So, you know, in my opinion,
it's a great time for somebody to look through to reinsurance as an asset class
and tokenization of reinsurance.
Brings forth some really interesting opportunities.
All right, I want to open up the panel.
I know I've been talking about this,
but I'm mostly just talking a lot
because I'm actually pretty passionate about this industry
and I'm decently familiar with insurance. And when I discovered been talking about this, but I'm mostly just talking a lot because I'm actually pretty passionate about this industry and I'm decently familiar with insurance.
And when I discovered this whole reinsurance, my guess is most people don't even know that
this reinsurance industry exists.
They probably don't realize how much of the actual risk gets diffused on the back end
and that there is just a massive industry here.
Because again, people legally have to have insurance in most cases
to basically survive. And so it's a really interesting area. So Austin, let me come over
to you first, because you also not only probably are interested in this industry, but also are
watching this stock, which is up 30% today and moving as we're talking here. So yeah,
just curious to have any thoughts or questions you have. No, definitely. I mean, congratulations.
I mean, you guys have been on a tear, as he said, was it 70% or so up on the week?
Charts looking good.
You guys are really turning up.
It looks like biggest volume we've seen in quite a while.
So I'm happy.
It's congratulations.
It must be a great feeling.
I can't imagine.
So my question is, so my parents have, they moved to Florida, right? And
so I've learned a little bit about Florida and the real estate economy there and just some of the
issues around, honestly, buying and selling at this point, just because of the amount of the,
I guess the expense of insurance has become pretty crazy given the hurricanes and everything else.
And I guess, you know, realtors won't even show is all anecdotal.
So correct me if I'm wrong with realtors, you know, are refusing to even show homes if you don't have proof of these crazy insurance policies.
I mean, how does that is just for all listeners here?
Like, is that good for your business? Does that make it tougher? Is that a new opportunity?
Like, what is what how do you guys approach approach that climate yes so it's it's it's unfortunate that rates rates keep going up
from one side as a consumer but therein lies the opportunity right so it is tough to get it is tough
to get insurance in the state of florida but there's plenty of companies that are writing insurance.
And the reason they're able to write this reinsurance is because there are companies, there are other reinsurance companies, there are reinsurance companies that are backing them up.
That reinsurance backs up the insurance companies lay off their risk to reinsurers. And as long as reinsurers underwrite and take on that risk, people can, the insurance
companies can put out these policies.
So it's tough to get insurance in the state of Florida and various different other states
in the US, Louisiana, Texas, New York, California.
It's a tough market, but it's a market that is not affected by the capital market.
So whatever is happening in today's flavor of somebody tweeting out whatever regarding what's happening with political policy, it doesn't really matter.
If the markets are up, if the markets are down,
reinsurance is steady state.
If somebody owns a property, they buy insurance.
And if they buy insurance,
the insurance company buys reinsurance
on their entire book of business.
It's a necessary evil and it's here to stay.
But with various different companies
coming into the space now and access to capital improving, we hope that rates will also improve.
That's great.
And so, I mean, the reason I asked, I'm glad you answered it, because in my head, what I'm thinking in the back of my head is as these rates continue to go up, and as you said, and I'm glad you mentioned it, that is very much an inelastic market.
As these rates go up, I mean, I would assume that your reinsurance rates would also climb with that, correct?
Yeah, reinsurance rates are predicated by natural catastrophes, right?
And these natural catastrophes reinsureurers write business all over the world.
So, you know, in years gone by, Japanese tsunami would have affected the rates of insurance
companies or the reinsurance rates in the state of Florida and New York or wherever.
It's because reinsurance companies are multi-billion dollar companies and they write business all over the globe.
And they take a whole holistic model as to whatever happens in their entire book of business, if it's up or down, that's how they approach this.
So years gone by, that was a time in the state of Florida when you had nine straight years where you never had any reinsurance catastrophes.
Rates were just fine.
Reinsurance rates were down.
And people took advantage of that.
But over the last few years, we've had an uptick in natural catastrophes.
But it's not just catastrophes that affect the space of insurance.
It's also
frivolous lawsuits and various other things you know we hear a lot about those kind of things as
well right so just not reinsurance that drives it up uh reinsurance is driven up by the potentially
frivolous lawsuits that follow through as a um as a follow-on of any kind of any kind of catastrophe
a follow-on of any kind of catastrophe.
So there's definitely hope.
There's definitely hope.
Awesome.
Well, I appreciate it.
I want to let everybody else ask a couple more questions.
I definitely have one or two more.
I just got a bunch of kids running around here, so sorry about that.
Oh, good.
Hey, we got some other people who are perfect for this.
Tropic, do you want to get any questions in?
Maybe they'll come over to William after.
Yes, it's really interesting. I've actually never heard of reinsurance before today. I had to do a whole bunch of research before the space.
So like many people, this is new to me. I had no clue that insurance companies were collecting or taking out insurance policies from other insurance companies.
I just always thought it was dealing with the government and backing it that way. So in that regards, I have to ask,
is there any legal obligation for companies, insurance companies to take out reinsurance,
or is this at their own discretion based upon their specific needs?
Yeah, no, that's a great question. Insurance companies have to buy reinsurance. And let's say, for example, in the state of Florida, the state of Florida, the OIR or the Office of Insurance Regulation will go through every insurance company's balance sheet.
what's the amount of loss that the balance sheet can take on.
And then they will cap them to writing policies only to that amount.
And if they want to write any amount further to that, they have to buy reinsurance.
So it's a necessary evil that these guys have to buy reinsurance.
So every insurance company does buy reinsurance.
I think there's very few that don't.
Maybe I think it's Berkshire Hathaway and maybe another one that's out there. But every insurance company buys reinsurance i think there's very few that don't maybe i think it's berkshire hathaway and maybe another one that uh that's out there but every insurance company buys reinsurance but
anything that has the word insurance is backed by reinsurance so health insurance dental insurance
car insurance art whatever anything that has insurance you have reinsurance cyber as well
insurance you have reinsurance cyber as well um so it just affords it gives the it gives the
insurance underwriter the backing to go out and take on more policies and underwrite more policies
because there's another company that's in the back over that that's backstopping it but people
but you're absolutely right people have never heard of it because they've never had access to it
they've never been in they've never been able to invest in it.
And they've never needed to purchase it because every time they purchase insurance, that insurance company bundles up the entire package or the entire policy base and buys reinsurance on that.
Really interesting. So that guarantees a stream of income coming in.
So then the expense side would obviously be the payouts.
So how do you guys go about managing risk,
especially when you're talking about natural catastrophes
and all those things and global pandemics,
maybe all these crazy things that are completely out of your hand?
So that goes with underwriting, right?
So for example, I'll talk about us.
So Assurance Plus, we're a follow-on reinsurer.
So when we go out, we write reinsurance contracts every year.
So June 1 is reinsurance season.
It starts, reinsurance season starts for our book of business in June 1, and it goes till
May 31st of the next year.
When we underwrite these policies, basically we're underwriting companies so when
companies for example in the state of florida are looking for looking for reinsurance they'll
send us their book of business and there's tremendous there's a tremendous amount of data
analytics that goes into it like so companies such as air and rms they do a tremendous amount
of modeling we go through we go through a lot of their information
and we determine whether, A, it makes sense for us to underwrite it, and B, if the rate and what
we're thinking makes sense for us in that particular tower. So as a follower-on reinsurer, what that means is we typically are never the largest insurer on that layer of business that's being written.
We wait for a main reinsurer to come in, and once one comes in, we will tag along with them under that same paper.
So if it makes sense to us to write the business, we'll come in as a follow-on reinsurer, and the follow-on reinsurer sets the tone, the rates, et cetera.
So it gives us credence as to whatever, whichever way we're looking at this makes sense.
And even then, if the follow-on reinsurer comes in with a rate that we're not happy, we don't take the business.
So not only do we underwrite it in-house, but then we also take a look and see some of the big boys who are coming in.
What are they doing, and how are they looking at it? And if our interests are aligned,
then we underwrite and we go forward with that. So it's all done in-house.
Interesting. And I'm happy to pass the mic, but before I, you know, you can circle back to me at
any time. The question that's now in my head is, do reinsurance companies also have to get
insurance? Because now i have a vicious cycle
going through my head so i was just wondering about that
yes no it uh as as a proverbial saying is the buck stops here now some of these reinsurance
companies they'll trade their policies and so on and they'll lay off some of their risks but
majority of the times no it when reinsurance companies take on or underwrite risks it stays on their balance sheets
and they administer that administer that risk for that entire year great questions there from
tropic this is awesome i i love it i feel feel like the whole space is really learning a lot more about this industry together here. William, what's going on?
It was really funny, but obviously that's not the case as per assurance's comment there.
So that's good to know.
Yeah, so I came in a little late.
Sorry for my five-minute tardiness there.
I was in another space kind of rolling over to this one.
So I might have missed this answer to my question.
But obviously, when it comes to asset tokenization, I'm sure most of us here
might be familiar with it. If not, to the listeners, a lot of reasons people go for
tokenizing assets on blockchains is you get better global accessibility, cheaper transactions,
quicker settlement times, more transparency and such. So those are all amazing benefits
that we're seeing. But my question pertains to the accessibility aspect. Now, when it comes to
certain investments, obviously, there is an accredited investor, like, you know, kind of
regulation, you could say. So my question is, one, does that accredited investor,
those accredited investor regulations apply to this reinsurance market? And if they do,
how does insurance with tokenization maybe get around
that or open up this market to regular everyday people such as myself? Because I see on your
website that someone like me could just get involved, whereas maybe before it was more
difficult or I'm not legally able to get involved. So that's my question.
or I'm not legally able to get involved.
So that's my question.
Yeah, so what we do,
we make sure that we follow the letter of the law to the T, right?
So it's Reg D, which is accredited in the US
and non-accredited outside of the US.
So it's only accredited in the US.
So as long as you can pass,
as long as someone passes the various different tests,
and it's quite easy for us to go ahead and figure that out because the way we do this, it's all systems.
Somebody logs in, they go and create an account on Securitize, which is our partner site that does a lot of the stuff for us.
They go and log in, set up their information, upload their information, and within three minutes, AML and KYC is done.
But you are right.
It's a reg D asset.
It's a reg D offering that we put out over here.
And it's the reason we put out this reg D offering over here is there is risk.
Things can go wrong.
So we want to make sure that it's accredited investors
that are getting access to this asset class.
And it's also because we have aspirations to grow this to grow this business
in a much bigger way so make sure that we don't do anything wrong don't run a file of uncle Sam
expand the offering put it out over there but do it in a very controlled way but do it in a way
that access is paramount security is paramount, compliance is paramount.
Yeah, I mean, I would agree.
And I think, you know, tokenization is a great way to enforce that transparency as well as compliance and regulation.
As we're seeing with the BlackRock Biddle Fund, you know, they're able to whitelist wallets to access that fund.
So I feel like it becomes a much more transparent means to comply with these regulations.
So thank you.
Great.
Great questions there from William as well.
Two others on the panel just wanted to check in with, see if they had any thoughts here.
Ani, want to come over to you?
This is incredible.
I actually never knew that this kind of a market existed.
So I'm kind of with Tropic here, just learning as I go.
I would be curious to know, like,
what made you choose decentralized,
a decentralized approach over just a convenient one?
And what kind of benefits or disadvantages
are you seeing in terms of just going the regular route versus going decentralized?
So that's a great question, right?
Because people always say, what's the benefit of having this done over here?
And the benefit is by decentralizing it, we give people access.
Currently, there isn't a market that's out there for somebody who wants to put in a small dollar amount.
With $5,000, that's a small amount.
But in order to gain access to this asset, somebody would have to put in several millions of dollars.
But what if that family office doesn't want to put in a few million bucks?
They just want to put in $100,000.
Or what if that accredited investor in the U.S. only wants to put in a few bucks over here, you know, five, 10,
$20,000. There's no access. There's no market. There's nowhere that they can go put this money
to work. So the, the old fashioned, the old fashioned way, the, the historical way that
somebody would do this, you'd go buy a cat bond or buy a piece of a cat bond, a catastrophe bond.
But those are usually bought through. Again, you have to put in several millions of dollars it's it's usually done in bermuda you can gain access to it but then at that point um the next
question then says that you know people want to know is how do i get it what do i do with it and
so on and so forth so by decentralizing it it, it, again, you know, I keep saying AML and KYC because I think that's a very important thing that we have to point out. allow us to do this and centralizing this then puts it out over there to any person in any part
of the world that wants to gain access to it which the high dot barrier to entry was so high
in the past and it's still high we're one of the few mavericks who are coming in with this but
while we are one of the first few folks who are doing this, in my opinion, this will happen in a much larger way as we go forward.
I really like that. It actually allows more people to come in and take advantage of some of the technology that's out there.
they're doing in terms of, I mean, I kind of want to ask, like, what kind of response
are you seeing from the audience and people that are starting to know you?
Like, are you seeing users coming on board or are you having trouble, like, you know,
just explaining what this is and explaining the markets to people?
It's been a little slow because, you know know as a few others have pointed out uh not only on
this panel but in some of the other panels and folks where we go people haven't been have people
have never heard of reinsurance because they've never had access to it you've never been able to
invest in it you've never needed to buy it so it's not in somebody's forefront when they say let me
go invest in x right in x y or z so it's it's a
little bit of a hurdle that we're facing but as we go forward and as we start talking to you know to
non-industry people non-industry as in people outside of the reinsurance space as we go out
and start talking to people about this it's the years perk up there you know the interest is there
we've had folks that that have asked us questions a couple of years ago and
have invested now.
So it's taken some time, but as we go forward, it's, it's something
that's definitely over there.
When we talk to people and we tell them that kind of returns that are
available to somebody in, in an asset, that's a security token.
It's, it's not, uh, it's not crypto and I'm not knocking crypto at all, right?
This is just something that's completely different.
So as we start talking to people and as we educate them
or as we spread the information out there,
we're getting some traction
and we're very excited about that.
I love that.
And I think you're starting with the right platform
because Wolf does provide a very, like, you become discoverable when you are on the Wolf platform. And yeah, I think you're starting out right. And thank you for what you're doing. Back to you, Wolf.
Yeah, thank you. Appreciate the kind words there. Yeah, Prometheus, I saw you just tweeted out the space. Thank you. Did you have any questions here?
Hey, Wolf.
Yeah, thanks for having me and insurance team.
Great to meet you guys.
Yeah, this is my first time as well.
Did not know insurance companies took out insurance, but I am impressed by your yields.
And so walk us through the tokenomics of how it is you guys are
giving out the yields you know you have one vehicle that's 20% and another that's
42% that's the long-term version so walk us through how that works what's the lockup time and how can accredited investors get involved?
Yes. So we have two tokens, as you pointed out, two security tokens, tokenized securities that we
put out. So I'll explain. It's a very simple question, but it's a complex answer. So I'm
going to take a little bit of time to explain it you have something what's called a reinsurance tower so if you'd imagine a
tower in the bottom of the tower you have a layer the bottom layer is the deductible so all of us
are familiar with the deductibles like our home a car insurance for example it has a deductible so
insurance companies when they buy reinsurance they set up a tower and they'll say that bottom layer
is going to be their deductible
so hypothetically you know the first 50 million dollars of losses they will absorb the first 50
million of losses in a in a major catastrophe that is not like leaky pipes and that type of thing but
you know major perils hurricanes etc they'll absorb absorb that first 50 million dollars of loss and
then anything after and this is just an example, anything after that 50 would then
go over to reinsurance.
So 50 to a hundred would be maybe that next layer, a hundred to 150 would be that next
layer, 150 to 250, et cetera, and so on and so forth.
So as the losses from a particular, let's just say a hurricane, as the losses from a
hurricane creep up it goes it goes
through 50 million they will exhaust their 50 million and then it will go to reinsurers so as
it goes up into the tower and it exhausts those different layers that's where the risk that's
where that risk profile is right so our 42 token is a little lower in the tower it's not the lowest
layer in the tower but it's a lower it's lower in the layer our 20 token is lower in the tower. It's not the lowest layer in the tower, but it's lower in the layer.
Our 20% token is higher in the layer.
So it just depends on somebody
as to what kind of risk appetite they have.
So if somebody is managing a portfolio
and they take a small percent of their portfolio,
whether it's a company or their personal assets,
so they take a very small percent of their money and put it into a company or their personal assets. So they take a very small
percent of their money and put it into a non-correlated asset. So the tokenomics over here,
it's the metrics over here. It's like a cat bond, a catastrophe bond. Depending on the outcome
of the reinsurance season is how this gets paid out so for for hurricane examples
since 1952 in the state of florida 82 percent of the time nothing's happened in terms of a category
three hurricane so a category three hurricane is 112 mile an hour winds 112 mile an hour winds when
when that type of wind hits a house shingles are disrupted and when shingles
are disrupted bad things happen to a home so that's when majority of the majority of the uh
the damage is done so typically you have to have a few different things for a disaster
for a bad outcome a category three potentially category three hitting the state of florida
b it has to hit in a populous area
because if it just if if it doesn't make landfall it's a non-event if it hits it's if it hits
someplace where you don't have much population florida has a lot of areas where there's a
majority of it is swamp land so that's another non-event so it has to hit a populous area
so in a category three hits a populous area, that's when things could go wrong.
But statistically, and these statistics, you can see this on University of Colorado puts out every year they put out statistics and NOAA puts out statistics.
So since 1952, 82% of the time, nothing happens in terms of a category three doesn't hit landfall and doesn't hit landfall, right?
But the other 18 percent
of the time things can go wrong and when they hit land that's when you have that thing that's when
things go wrong in a bad way so that's the 42 percent that's the 20 you're taking risk you're
taking risk but majority of the time nothing happens news outlets we're also we're also wrapped
up with the sensationalism of news outlets.
We think that every time something happens, it's the worst.
As an example, last year, we had a Category 3 that hit the state of Florida.
We targeted a 42%, and we actually paid out 49% because our contracts didn't get affected.
So the mechanics of reinsurance depends on where these contracts sit in this tower
is the level of risk the lower in the tower the higher the risk that's higher the reward
the higher up the more stable that is and the less chance of things going wrong over there
Wow, I need some time to absorb that.
wow i um i need some time to absorb
I know, I've given you a lot of information just with that little question.
But I appreciate it. I mean, this is new territory for me. Jay, is it right? Jay Madhu?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. No, it's a pleasure to meet you, sir. No, I've always just kind of like casually dabbled in the world of insurance.
And learning about these subtleties is fascinating for me as someone who's building in the blockchain space and consulting in it.
And I think there's so much overlap and possibility in this space for sure.
and possibility in this space for sure.
One thing that I came across in my studies was,
I don't know if this is directly related
with your product, it probably doesn't have to be,
but I'm just, just from my own knowledge here,
is that there are certain forms of life insurance,
for example, where if you pay in a certain amount
after a while, you're able to borrow against
your life insurance cover, for example. Would any of those kinds of plays be something that
Assurance Plus or maybe some of your clients in the future look to explore especially from a tokenization
perspective I think that could be like a really fascinating area of I don't know like deploying
like new insurance slash blockchain based products would love to hear your thoughts on that
yes absolutely right so annuities you could put Right. So annuities, you can tokenize pretty much anything.
When I say anything, I mean anything that has, in my opinion, it needs to make sense.
It needs to have some substance over there.
It needs to be something that's auditable.
that's auditable. And when I say auditable, you need to make sure that you have PCOB audits or
a high level of audit that goes through whatever the underlying asset is. And term life insurance
or annuity insurance, that's a huge market over there. But it can be anything else. You know, you had, people are tokenizing real estate, office buildings, apartment complexes, various different things like that.
Heck, you can take anything, in my opinion, anything that has the auditability, that has real world asset to it, that's something that has bite to it.
You can take that and democratize that piece out to various different people.
Right?
So it's almost like crowdfunding in another way, but you have compliance and
transparency, in my opinion, is paramount because we don't have compliance and
transparency, then a lot of people could get hurt. So compliance, transparency, and then democratizing
transparency, then a lot of people could get hurt.
any asset class that could benefit from this, I think this is the way of the future.
Oh, absolutely. And, you know, I am completely with you when it comes to the transparency.
And, you know, I think that's where blockchain can offer such unique value in the marketplace.
Walk us through like, you know, which so, you know, I see on your website here, you guys are working with the Avalanche blockchain.
Am I correct in understanding
that yes yeah so walk us through you know why it is you chose Avalanche and you know what that
partnership looks like and you know in terms of like this transparency to the marketplace again
you know you're a pioneer in this field you're you're bringing something like truly like as
someone who's been in this field for eight years now i've i've never heard of free insurance plus blockchain this is so fascinating
for me so walk us through like how that partnership came about and um you know how it is you um will
leverage the transparency of blockchain to to pioneer this space yeah so the folks at avalanche are phenomenal they're just absolutely
phenomenal so the reason we chose avalanche is because when we did this when we started three
years ago so um when we started three years ago we were looking for a chain to put to put this token
on and we chose avalanche because of the gas fees the idea is this while these are one-year tokens you need to have you need to have
some thought process as to somebody can either buy them and hold them for the one year and then and
then realize their return based on the experience of the account or if somebody wants to let go of
these tokens at some point is there a market and if there is a market how would that be so think
about it this way if you have a hurricane that's approaching
the state of florida and it's four days out and it's a category one somebody puts in a hundred
thousand i'm just using rough numbers right so if somebody puts in a hundred thousand dollars
they're supposed to hit is supposed to target a 42 return so this hundred thousand dollars
theoretically could become 142 but you have this category one hurricane that's coming through and it's four days away.
Somebody says, look, I put in a hundred, give me 80 grand and I'm happy to exit.
A lot of us would take a look at this.
We'd look at weather.com, weather.com says, and, and, and, you know, it's not, weather.com
is actually pretty phenomenal.
The AI, the accuracy of those guys is pretty phenomenal.
So weather.com will come in and say, yes, you have this hurricane that's coming.
It's a category one. It's not expected to increase, but again, anything can happen.
So a lot of us would look at this and say, it's four days out. All the various different models on various different places suggest nothing's going to happen in terms of it potentially won't
get to a category three. That's where majority of the damage goes on we'll take that bet so we would put out 80 grand for this thing four days later this hurricane has gone
past it's a non-event that 80 that we put out is now worth 142 again those of us who bought this
we take a look at this and say you know i bought something that's worth 142 for 80. if somebody
just gives me 100 i'm happy to exit. Four days later, somebody turns around.
Again, a lot of us would look at this and say, it's October.
It's the middle of October.
Hurricane season ends in November, the end of November.
We look at weather.com again, and we take a look at the weather patterns all the way
from Africa to the state of Florida, and it's clear skies.
That gives us probably a close three to know, three to four week window.
We would take that bet.
So we turn around and buy this thing for a hundred.
And so you'd have that tradability that happens, right?
So the reason we chose Avalanche, again, long answer to a very short question.
The reason we chose Avalanche is what thought of the future.
chose avalanches with thought of the future as we build it out.
And as we, as this trade ability happens, if people start trading these tokens and these
are $10 tokens, as this, as these tokens start trading in and out, what are the gas fees?
What are the gas fees look like?
So we chose avalanche because of the low gas fees.
But as we go forward, there are other opportunities that are other folks that have reached out
to us, other, other chains that are reached out to us and that, that have some extremely interesting
economics. Um, and you know, we, we, we, we would review all these various things as we go forward,
but that was the genesis of why Avalanche and how it went in and the reason for it too.
Yeah. Amazing. I completely agree with you.
The Avalanche team is like top tier in the marketplace.
And I know some of the guys at the, you know, like basically at the CEO level as well.
And they are really pioneering like gaming as well.
And, you know, aspects of blockchain that i think is going to be phenomenal
for the rest of the market i'm truly excited for what's going to happen for the insurance space
thank you for those really thoughtful answers sir i i'm gonna have to go back to the drawing board
and have to re-listen to the space and actually study a bit more to to go deeper with what it is
you're doing i see a couple other hands up so um wolf oh you
know actually you know actually i'm just going to add a couple more sound bites over here right so
avalanche is a great spot there's a few other folks are phenomenal we were just we just came
back from token 2049 and we had we had the team from midnight midnight is a new chain that's coming
out from cardano uh midnight actually invited us to be on their panel. This was the only panel that they had in token 2049.
So they invited us on their panel
and with the folks from BitGo.
Phenomenal panel.
So I only say this to say
there's lots of interesting, phenomenal chains
that are out there.
And as we go forward,
we hope to put some more of the stuff out.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I've had many conversations with Charles we go forward we hope to put some more of the stuff out oh yeah absolutely and uh you know i've
had many conversations with charles uh and you know he's um like hardano is bar none like in
terms of like the amount of development and what they're offering especially with midnight which
is going to be their privacy token i'm'm extremely excited. So looking forward to what you guys do there. I know there's some other hands up, so I'm going to stop hogging the mic.
We'll get back to you and Tropic and whoever else wants to speak. Thanks so much, sir.
Thank you. Yeah, great questions. Listen, no need to apologize. William, yeah, jump in,
then we'll go over to Tropic. Yeah, I hate to cut off Tropic. My question definitely has to
pertain to the Avalanche conversation,
so I just wanted to get it out there real fast before we switch gears,
if we were switching gears.
Yeah, for one, I am a huge Avalanche bull,
been super bullish on Avalanche being kind of like the chain
where a lot of tokenization happens.
Strictly, not strictly, but mainly for the reason
that you can basically have your cake and eat it too, in a way.
So you have your own permissioned L1 that you can basically have your cake and eat it too in a way. So like,
you have your own permissioned L1 that you can set the rules for and like have like certain controls in place. And so I was going to ask assurance here if that was another reason they
chose making their own avalanche L1 if you guys are going that route. Because you can have those
kind of, you know, regulations and controls put in place that you can't really do on other chains.
I mean, yeah, you can modify smart contracts and everything,
but you can have your own kind of catered environment with Avalanche
and still be connected to the rest of the decentralized chain.
And that's why I say have your cake and eat it too.
So is that another reason that insurance chose AVAX?
Yes, absolutely.
It's versatility, right?
So versatility, everything that we do,
we give it some thought as to not only
what are we doing currently,
but as we grow into this ecosystem,
as we grow into the space,
and as we grow into our different various different offerings,
whether they be in reinsurance or other avenues,
how do we look at the world going forward?
If we have to twist and turn,
if we have to tweak certain things,
if various different things have to be implemented
as part of the contract,
how will that work?
And yes, absolutely.
Avalanche gave us that opportunity
to maybe do some of those things.
Excellent.
No, thank you so much.
Again, super bullish on what they're doing.
Love what they're building.
I agree with everything Prometheus said. Tropic, the mic is yours.
my mind as far as like the tech side talking about chains and all of those different things
is that more a conversation that you'd have with the various individuals on the outside that we
buying the token or does this ever come up when you're actually speaking to the various insurance
companies uh no it doesn't come up and the reason it doesn't come up with the insurance companies
is because it's almost as two sides of the barrier, if you would.
One is the capital raising and what it does on that side.
And on the other side of the spectrum is we take that capital, we downstream it to the
reinsurance companies, and that capital sits in fiat.
And the monies that we raise through our tokenization, that
money sits in trust accounts with large U.S. banks.
I say U.S. banks because we believe we're taking risk.
We're in the business of risk mitigation.
Work with large banks, work with banks that have some solid business over there to them.
Large U.S. banks, Truist, for example, in this case,
it sits in a trust account with Truist for the entire year.
So when dollars come in, monies get downstream,
put into trust accounts, and we write these contracts on a one-to-one basis.
So we don't leverage, we don't put on additional debt on there. So we write it one
to one. And by having this money in these trust accounts, the insurance company knows there's
cold hard cash backing up whatever reinsurance contracts that we're writing. It's good old USD.
Really cool.
So they don't see the other kind of things. Yeah.
Yeah, I was just curious about that because of course, a lot of us here are tech nerds that love to go down these things.
But I was like, I wonder if this conversation even comes up in these meetings and so forth.
So really happy with that answer.
And for the sake of time, and we only have a few more minutes left, but as I'm looking at this and just trying to assess all the risk, and you did say a lot of different things and how it spread out.
And even looking at Florida, it's like, of course,
there's densely populated people in an area where there's a hurricane.
You got cut off there.
I mean, normally I put it on airplane mode,
but it knocked out my mic when I did that earlier.
So what I was thinking is,
as far as looking at the US and how risk could be, how long has this been around? Because I'm
thinking back in like, oh, wait, whatever really got me interested in finances, all those loans
that were bundled together and all those different packages and so forth. Is there that sort of risk
to this? Is this something that has been around for decades
or is this a fairly new quote unquote experiment because it hasn't been, I guess you would say,
true and tested through recessions and all sorts of crazy things for years?
No, no, no. Reinsurance has been around for a century. You've had Lloyd's of London,
that's a reinsurance company. Berkshire Hathaway, reinsurance company.
So reinsurance companies have been doing business the way they've been doing business year in and year out.
And anything that has the word insurance is backed by reinsurance.
Now, something that you said, which was very interesting in 08-09, you had all these different, the opportunities of various different properties or groups of properties that people were buying into.
People did exceedingly well, but you needed access to capital.
If you didn't have cold, hard cash, no one was lending against that.
Imagine if something like that happens again.
If we went out and raised a fund that went truly into this and people had access to this all of a sudden, they didn't need to put in a few million bucks or several hundreds of thousands of dollars.
With small denominations, somebody from any part of the world can come into a particular fund and turn around and gain access to whatever happened in 08, 09.
So that's why I think RWAs are the wave of the future, because it's just not what's happening on Wall Street.
It's what can happen outside of Wall Street, and it can happen in an extremely compliant way.
Really cool stuff there.
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that.
Again, fairly new to this whole reinsurance world and to hear that it's been around for so long, and that's Lloyd of London, which is a very trusted name for the most part, that they've been doing this for so long.
Again, fairly new to this whole reinsurance world and to hear that it's been around for so long.
That does give me some assurance that this isn't some risky experiment.
So I really appreciate your answers.
And, of course, you gave me a million things to go research, so I appreciate your time.
Absolutely.
All right.
We are going to move into some final comments.
This was an amazing conversation.
I think we covered this really, really well.
Jay, is there anything we didn't touch on you want to make sure that we hit on?
No, I think we talked about it quite a bit, right?
Because I think the questions were spot on because it brought on some new thought process.
And in a short period of time, even though it's an hour, in a short period of time, I tried to stress on a few things, but it's, it's, you know, we have, we have our new token that we put out over there.
Insurance plus.com is our website.
Folks can go on over there, read up about it.
If they have an interest in, in, in, in investing in the token, it kind of lays out the yellow brick road.
So lots of really interesting things happening, not only from the company, but also with some of the other folks that we are getting involved with and so on and so forth.
So thank you so much for taking the time and putting me on.
Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure. This was great.
There's so much more for people to dig into here, stuff that we didn't even have a chance to get to.
But, you know, talking about the broader RWA market and its potential as
it continues to come up, upcoming milestones, different pieces like that.
You had your first tokenized offering, Delta Cat RE.
Investors are on pace for a 42% return there.
So there's so much more that I encourage people to dig into deeper here.
And so probably we'll need to do a follow-up conversation to get into more of the specifics.
I wanted to keep it...
Because so many people are in discovery mode today, I figured it'd be best to keep it a little bit more high level since people are learning about
this for the first time.
And then we could do a second one, probably where we dive a little bit deeper into those
other items.
So this was perfect.
Jay, thanks so much for coming on with us today.
Any final comment before we close this one out?
You know, as a publicly traded traded company we're listed on the
nasdaq oxbridge re is the parent company ticker symbol is oxbr we've democratized this that we've
started this company under it it's it's a subsidiary of oxbr assurance plus and assurance plus
we we're so excited about assurance plus we hope to make this the next publicly traded company where
blockchain meets the sec so as you said uh hope to be on again at some other point and dive a
little bit deeper into this but read up look it up um let us know perfect thank you for being on
with us today uh thank you to tropic prometheusometheus, Ani, William, Austin, everyone that was on here.
Great questions across the board.
I felt like this was super interesting because, you know, it's something that was familiar, right, with that technology and, you know, the decentralized portion, but also very new with the reinsurance.
So very, very cool crossover.
I learned a lot in this one.
These are some of my favorite types of spaces.
Thank you to everyone that tuned in.
We will be back with more spaces coming up later.
Take care.
Have a great rest of your day.
Hey, guys.
Later. Thank you.
