On the lawns from the zoo, On the train bound to the road, Mid up with the can, In the boat to Tatsley, So we took turns to stay in the window,
So at the darkness, to pour on the water, and he begins to be, he says, "Son, I've made a life, I've written people's faces, no end for the cars, by the way they filled their eyes, so if you don't
I can see around the base for a taste of whiskey I give you some advice So I hand the hip hop and drink down my list wrongly Then he bombed the cigarette
And that's before the light And the night got different requirements And a space lost all the pressure Said if you're gonna play the keyboard You gotta learn to play it right You gotta know when you're holding on No, when the phone doesn't
♪ Oh, and the wall of the way ♪ ♪ And open the rise, you know the sound of your own money ♪ ♪ When you're sitting at the table ♪ ♪ There'll be time and time ♪ ♪ When the duty's done ♪
Every cat knows, the secret keeps smiling, knowing what to do, knowing what to keep, 'cause they're free hands away, and they're really hands-alous, and they're best friends.
♪ The two came home for the day and sleep ♪ ♪ And when he finished speaking ♪ ♪ He turned back for the window ♪ ♪ Fresh cat and savior ♪ ♪ We did it all to sleep ♪ ♪ And thought we were in the darkness ♪
♪ The candle where he broke his eyes ♪ ♪ And in his finer words I found ♪ ♪ The nays that I could keep ♪ ♪ You got to go and go ♪ ♪ No end of all time ♪ ♪ No end of all the way ♪ ♪ No end of all time ♪
♪ You did a bad joke, buddy ♪ ♪ With your sittin' at the table ♪ ♪ You'll be tryin' 'n' out the town ♪ ♪ When the demons done, you got no way to hold it down ♪ ♪ No way to hold it down ♪ ♪ No way to walk ♪
♪ No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no#
Hey, hey, hey! Happy Tuesday!
How we doing out there today? Welcome to the right, Risho. Katie, what's up? Hey, I should have known you picked that song for me. I should have managed to gamble on which song you're going to pick. And that would have been the Oz on a favorite. I just say great choice.
Yes, yes, I knew you would enjoy that. Well, maybe you don't you know like You know I was in finance for 20 years right so like anytime anybody like brings finance at me I'm like I'm kind of burned out about that So I don't know maybe maybe maybe you've heard the gambler one too many times but gosh
When I did my Katy Dozer research, I didn't realize just how far down the poker rabbit hole you had been. And then I thought, "Oh God, we gotta do the gambler." So, yeah, so welcome to the show. I hope you
Hope you liked my song. I love their song. I can never get enough of the gambler. I think it's hilarious too because it's like Kenny Rogers himself couldn't get enough of that song because he couldn't figure out how he ties you should put the chorus again at the end before finally wrapping it up. So I think I like it almost as much as Kenny Rogers.
I'm not sure if you're interested in this video.
myself who've met Katie through this right three movement, web three NFTs. Katie, to me, you are a talented poet and a community builder and one who's an important part of the right three movement. Gosh, I had no idea that you had this other
live as a poker player. Tell us real quickly about that and why I might have chose the gambler as our intro music. Well, that's funny. It's very tied into my poetry story too, I guess.
But when I was studying poetry at FSU, I started playing poker. And as a lot of people here know, there's not a whole lot of money in poetry. But with poker at the time that I was there. So I went to college, I graduated in 2007. So I'm 37 as a frame of reference.
There was a huge poker boom just starting as I was there. People were starting to play in home games and it became a fun thing. And then quickly I realized it was an easy way to make money without having a real job, which is something I've tried to maintain my whole life not having a real job.
Yes, I can completely understand that I love that and in your right We are of similar age. I remember that time period when when sort of online poker became a huge thing and and and the World Series a poker and the whole deal can be game such a big deal so I
I'll be interested to hear more about how it might have informed some of your poetry. But all right, so before we get started with Katie and talking all things poetry, welcome to the right three show. My name is great younger. I sit at the intersection of writing and web three or a space I like to call
right three. And this week we're going to be talking all about poetry and fts and I'm really excited to continue to build a library of resources that we can share with those that are coming up behind us who might not yet know all the coolness around poetry and fts. And so
I'm really excited to have Katie here on the show today. Let's start here, Katie. Talk a little bit about your background, both as a poet and poetry, and then also Web 3 and how you came to find the space.
So we have to go a little far back to find out about me and Poetry before their back says, and every year wants to go, but I'm going to go there. So it started out for me, I always loved Fox, and I loved reading Dr. Seuss, which is kind of a full circle situation for me now because my younger daughter is obsessed with reading Kat and the Hat.
I'm like one breath away from having that memorized and I had to watch out sometimes it comes out my own poem the little too strongly. So you stay. But they started out with that and she'll silver screen that I love to with his poems being like zany things where there was there was something to get that wasn't obvious, which was like the first thing I read like that, which was what was really
exciting to me all along about poetry. And then I continued to get just more and more into poetry as time went on and forth right. I was super into Robert Frost and Edgar Allan Poe. And then in middle school I had my emo period of time, which is the perfect period of time. I have an emo period I think. And I got into writing, you know, crappy
teenage poetry, which is I think a right of passage that we all have to break through in our own poetic poetry. Hopefully you guys agree that I have broken through it. But in any case, I had that period of my life and then I got more into better and better poetry with Emily Dickinson, Shakespeare, and I got into Manly to
because I love performing arts and was in Shakespearean plays which led me to poetry. And then I went to Florida State. I'm originally from Florida. I was born in Miami. And at Florida State, I actually started out trying to be an opera singer. And I wasn't good enough to be an opera singer.
So I continue to pass through the path of English, which I always loved anyway. And then in that majoring creative writing with an emphasis in poetry, at the same time that I started playing poker actually. So there aren't a lot of us out there that play poker in the right poetry, but we do exist at least in some smaller. Yeah, no kidding.
That is that is a crazy bend diagram. That is you and probably a few other people. That's great. That's awesome. That's a great background. So how about the Web 3 part? When did you become aware of Web 3 crypto NFTs?
and how did you go down this particular rabbit hole? Yeah, so I took me a while to find my footing in an FTP poetry and to find the community and I didn't start out with the understanding of the fact that that is, that is, you know, to me, an FTP poetry
is the community. I know that Ashu and the audience who is a huge builder of poetry in particular, that's an audience right now, understands that. And so I didn't immediately understand that that was it because coming from poker, I knew nobody in poetry like seriously nobody. And then I started to
try to find people. I started by trying to find friends on Facebook which was a mistake because you know we're not a hundred years old so we're not on Facebook but I did manage to find George Pastana who's in the audience on writings who was very kind like was my first branded NFT poetry so it's very sweet.
years right now. And then ever since then, it's been like trying to, you know, showcase other people's amazing poems and trying to focus more really on how we can build other people up than ourselves. And to be honest, you know, I'm ashamed that I did not start out like that. I came into NFC as an NFC poetry. I got very lucky and had a few
substantial sales and thought like hey I'm just gonna you know be the people of poetry or something although I like to pretend I wasn't quite that arrogant at the same time it took me a little bit to find the web3 community and then once I did you know I'm just all about it it's so much more satisfying than just trying to get for yourself it turns out
Yeah, right. That makes that makes a ton of sense. And you know, speaking of helping out the community, right, you are the host of a weekly show as well, right, on poetry and FTS. Why don't you tell the audience a little bit about that program. So we make sure we get your plug in here early into the show.
So this is a great example of how I've learned so much from you Greg because seriously before I started doing that space I listened to you and I was like taking notes on your space and you setting it up so that I get the plug in without feeling like hey look at me here's my blog that is a great example the best reminds you are here for if I just
my mom is in the audience. My mom is Deborah. I'm so happy to say hi to my mom. She's just singing out Twitter just for me. But anyway, the space that I do every week, which is called the poetry space, I do it with Timothy Green, who's the editor of Rattles. Unfortunately, he does the space with
me because I think it's fair to say he's actually read more poems than anybody alive because he's been or dead actually because he's been the editor of Rattle for almost 20 years and they get a tremendous number of submissions. So it's kind of fuses, you know, the NFT side of things, which is me with a traditional poetry side of things, which is him.
him. He's really on our website, guys. We've won him over. Well done. Well done. You brought another to the dark side. That's all I do. It's trying to bring people to the dark side. And that's every Thursday at 3 p.m. Eastern, although we are actually skipping
this week. So it's a terrible week for me to be plugging it. It's the first week we've missed this year. But we're going to have that up as a podcast too, which also Greg, I have to thank you about because I've heard you speaking about turning spaces into a podcast and then I have sensibly took notes and now that's happening for me too. So another way in which you've helped.
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah. If anybody needs help turning their spaces into a podcast, let me know. And I have a 16 year old son for hire who will also do it for you. So, yes, we're all good. And a special hello to Katie's mom and the audience.
that's fantastic. We could give my mom a week and a half and she wouldn't be able to find a Twitter space I'm pretty sure. So I have to sometimes I have to like print out my Twitter threads to give to her. So that's adorable. We need to pause and appreciate that printing
Twitter thread through your mom that makes me like even more great come on that's so cute she'd be on Facebook uh see you there but but Twitter's just a step too far I think so um all right so the point of today's show Katie right you and I going back and forth in the DMs
You know, what happens a lot for me as a content creator is that I will I don't know I'll just get on Twitter and and you know I'll mention I Collected a poetry of tea or all say me I love poetry or teas or you know I'll say something about poetry and then inevitably somebody makes a comment like what?
What is a poetry entity or how do I do a poetry entity? Or I'm sure Katie this happens to you as well. Someone will mention me. Someone will say, "Oh, you want to do a poetry entity? You should talk to a great younger." Which I appreciate very much. But what I would love to have is something to point to new people and say, "Gosh, you know what you need to do
you need to go listen to this podcast, go listen to this, it's going to be everything that you know. And so I thought today would be a discussion around sort of the basics and we've got some awesome people in the audience who I know have a ton of experience as well. So what I'd love to do
is get through the list of questions that I had with you Katie and then if you're in the audience, if there's something that we talk about today that you feel like could add to this can and if you will of information about poetry and of tease, save those thoughts and comments for the end and then let's have you come up
And we can kind of have an open forum about anything that we might have missed. Does that sound like a good plan, Katie? That sounds so awesome because I know too, like I'm coming at this from a slightly more traditional poetic, you know, angle and there are people out there doing super cool things that I don't know anything about and plus I want to make more friends.
So please. Right on fan fantastic. So, you know, let's just start here and again, just sharing your own story goes along way here, Katie. You know, what why use NFTs for poetry? That's like the basic question. Like,
You know, what is it about the poetry space and the web 3 poetry that is attractive to you and should be attracted to other poets or creatives? Well, that's a great question. I think for me, what I was looking at was that, why I initially
got into the NFT side with poetry and the reason is that it happened at a time where well first I should say I got into crypto with Bitcoin about a decade ago so I was definitely into cryptocurrency and aware of it which is kind of mixed the foray into NFC I think a lot easier with the learning curve and the
everything. But I saw NFTs and then I saw poetry and the problems I was having with poetry. So I kind of had a resurgence where after I had kids I had a little bit more time. I wasn't playing as much poker and so I had to devote more time to poetry. And so I started like, well, what do I even do with my poems? And then went through the tradition
narrative of, okay, I submit my poems to here and I found the process excruciatingly frustrating, like just terrible for the most part. There are exceptions and there are places that have a great turnaround with poems. But basically, Greg, this is crazy, but it really is. Like, you can write a poem and then maybe it's unlucky it gets published. Like, I
year from then. A lot of times it's like the traditional thing. So it's like such a long time frame and it's so frustrating because you're constantly trying to get better as a poet. So you could see a poet be like, "Oh, that home kind of sucks." And it's because you wrote two years ago by the time you see it somewhere. So I was struggling with that and I decided to
combine the two in part because of the fact that the seed phrase that you're given when you create a new wallet always struck me as being a found poem. Like I would create wallets just to see each other. I can no intention of you think just to like be like what is this magical phrase they're going to give me for some reason for doing nothing. And so that
That's what made me want to meant NFC poetry to start to include it as an unlockable poem at the time. That's how I could picture doing it because I'm also interested in photography. So I have the picture and I called it seed poems. It's on Open See. I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to talk about it. I'm not trying to show myself.
No worries, no worries. That's fine. Chill away. That's good. I should say that Ashu collected the most recent piece that was collected ashu, aswani, in the audience was a sunflower poem. And basically what it is is I create a, I came up with this seed phrase to accompany the poem that I
I think is like tight in with it. So that's what I wanted to do to start. And I thought so thinking more about it, the more I thought about the idea of NFTs being a new vehicle for poetry, the more excited I got about it. One was the immediacy as I was talking about earlier and I talked a lot about in the poetry space a couple weeks ago with George who was a great
speaker on that subject too. And the immediacy is really exciting to be able to write a poem and just have it up there. Like, you know, I can write a poem about something in the news, like the state of the Union, the Dress, and I can just mint a poem and I just have it up there. It feels honestly like magic. So it's a fantastic way to self-publish something, but have it on a platform.#
where other people have the ability to see it. So that's one way, which I'm excited about it. A big way is that I want to reframe thinking about poetry as also being visual art. So to me, the negative space around words and around a poem is actually art in them itself. And that's before you even take the capabilities of say, like, what I
I like to do the most, which is personally combining my photography and some intimate photography as well, with the word. So I want it to be that you walk into art galleries. Even more, this is already happening. I'm saying it like it doesn't happen, but it is happening. There are NFC galleries where there are NFC poems on there. But I want to walk into the Museum of Modern Art in New York.
and see a poem hanging there, you know, as an NFT. And I think that the capabilities for that are amazing because also of course it gives us the ability to tie in audio and visual components that you just can't do when you're just printing it in a magazine. So you can help it really come to life. And I think so much of poetry is, you know, the music
of breath as my co-host of the poetry space, Timothy Green has said before, so I'm going to quote him instead of just steal his words, mix it really, like come to life in a way that poetry hasn't been able to before. And those are just some of the, I have like, I could write a 5,000 word essay on this subject because this is the renaissance
of poetry is happening now and it's happening because of NFTs and that's how strongly I feel about it. Well, I mean I'm no expert necessarily but that's what everyone tells me. I mean everybody who's on my show and the poetry and FT creators tell me the same thing that you know this is the
the sleepiest of sleepy spaces for a long, long time. And now it's just been, you know, just this breath of new air, right, that's come in and so much creativity and talented people. And the idea that the NFT or
poetry comes to life, I think it's a great way to explain it because, you know, NFT books, which of course I'm super bullish on, there's a lot of words there. And so we're still trying to figure out how that is going to work. Whereas poetry
just seems to work in an NFT way because you can bring these mediums together, you can put it on one piece of visual media. And so that makes a lot of sense. I also love that immediacy. I talk a lot about in writing feedback loops and I never really thought about that but you're right.
you're able to throw poetry out there, get an idea of if it's successful, if it's not. And then of course, I would think that like reach is important as well. I mean, you can, I'm sure you can reach more of an audience with an NFT poem than maybe just like a traditional magazine or something like that, right?
Yeah, and what I love about that too is that you can reach a new audience. So so many journals, poetry journals and things like that are obscure things where it goes to only the subscribers and then it's not even put online. I want to even submit to a journal that doesn't post their poems online. That is hoarding your poems.
what we need is more people reading poems because I think poetry is exactly the antidote that society needs to improve right now. We need empathy and nothing can teach you empathy like poems can and trying to embody someone else's feelings and so I think that that's like we need more
people reading it. And this fact is too, people, modern people don't have an accurate impression of what a contemporary poem can be. You know, this is not Shakespeare. You're not going to open up poem and be reading harp and hither too. And I, well, I might want to write the poem next, but I just, that's kind of fun to me, but I'm a little as a
So contemporary poetry is really exciting. I think one way that this show recently was Insta poetry, which gets a lot of flack from the mainstream poetry community, but I think was really exciting and shows some of the potential we could have when Rupert Cora is selling millions of
of copies of a poetry book like there is incredible potential and there's a need for poetry I think in modern society and NFT poetry is a great way to accomplish that. Right on fantastic. Okay, so we both agree that poetry and
NFTs go together like peanut butter and jelly. So let's talk now about how, okay? So just at the simplest level, where do you begin thinking about creating a poetry NFTs?
Well, I love this question because I don't come from a text side in all of this. And so this was like the hardest part about making NFTs for me because, you know, I can write the poem. I write a lot of poems, Greg. Probably too many poems. But turning them into NFTs was like, you know, a real process to me. And I continue to delve into
to making it a little bit more complicated. So like I was saying, my first, my Genesis project was, you know, a photograph that I take. So I'm always taking photographs anyway. So that part was great for me because it's an excuse to take more photos, which I guess the people around me might say I don't need, but I think I need. So I take the photos and then I need
the short com as unlockable content. So that was very easy and that was just an open C. And then what I've done from there is I progressed to actually I have a collection of flower poems on foundation where the point is I'm basically trying to take things that are looked down upon and find the empathy and
that and lift them up. That's what I just want to do and everything is lift people up even in the poem. So I did that actually through the first one that I made was just through Google Doc. So it was just, you know, importing my photography and then overlining it and playing around with settings on, on literally on Google Doc. And since
Then I have progressed and I make, for example, my crypto-coup collection, I make on Procreate, just like doing a simple artistic background with a Hiku overlay on it. And that's a really, I would recommend Procreate to do that if you have a Mac. I'm not sure if it works, not on Macs.
have become a Mac person suddenly at the age of 37. So there we are with that. But that's another great way to go ahead and do that too. And it doesn't have to be complicated. And people are making videos, of course. And you know, I have ones with iMovie where I have audio too with my foundation collection. But I think that
But it's kind of a perfect enemy of the good scenario, I think. Like if you really want to make an NFT poem, there are simple ways to go about it. You do not have to freak out and say like, you know, I have to learn how to, you know, paint digital art or something like that. It's a lot more simple than that. Right. So, so ultimately your first poetry NFT doesn't need to come
mind all of these things, right? But one of the things that I tend to recommend to people that come to me is adding some sort of visual medium to it. Now, I think you have a collection that's just just the words, right? But it doesn't matter if you do or not.
But I mean, would you suggest to a new Poetry NFT creator that you know is the words by themselves kind of not enough in this space? Do you definitely need to have some sort of visual medium or does it not matter? Well, I
I think that I'm at purest in this and that I see actual font and words as beautiful because I'm that obsessed with language. But I think that my number one piece of advice would be to look at other works before you do it. So like as artists, I think we should seek to always be evolving the art process.
So in order to evolve something, of course, you have to be so familiar with what's going on ideally then. So you want to be continuing the art form. So I do have some that are super simple that are just taxed. They're shaped poetry. And generalist of poetry that's following a shape like I have thread poems where
The idea was just to tweet as a threat of home on Twitter and then I'd expanded that to I haven't even listed them yet for sale. So I'm not even I'm not even 100% sure with what I'm doing with that. But I think it can be simple, but I think that the most important thing it's like you're creating a dish and like if you're cooking French food, you're not going to add cilantro on top.
Right, make it fit with the words and so for me with photography because that's just naturally how I'm choosing to look at the words, you know, I am in my little poems collection. The background is something that reminds me and serves as a metaphor for the poem, but isn't directly the poem itself like in my poem m-dash.
You can see it's inside of a mine shaft that it references, but the poem itself doesn't say like hello I'm inside of a mine shaft, you know, it leads a little bit of room for interpretation and addition in the back of that view. I'm glad to be playing a poetry. So I think that you want to find a way to visually represent your art that works beautifully.
And if that is just words on a page, then that can be great, but how to have intention. Just like every single word and a poem needs to have intention, every single visual element of an NFC needs to have intention, otherwise it's not as artistic as it could be. Okay, that's really good.
I'm making notes that I like that a lot and you know maybe it One of the first things that people should do is Go and find poetry NFTs and probably collect right? I mean if you don't learn anymore about how this all works then collect it
right? So I will always suggest you and your show Ash who's in the audience, you know the gals at the verse verse do some amazing stuff. There's so many poets in our right
community, but who are some of the people that you would suggest that that new folks into poetry and a tease, people who are maybe doing poetry, but they want to go see some poetry and a tease, who are some people that you type you like to recommend that people look for, see
and collect before maybe doing it themselves. Well that was great because you took like 90% of my list. But I was actually going to say too that after the show when I tweet this, assuming this, yeah this is being recorded. I'm going to tweet the recording and I'm also going to tweet
some names too of individual people, but I came up with one specific one that you didn't mention in addition to Ashiw and the audience of course who is just build up the poetry community, you know, is doing such a great job with that, is at Crypto poetry. So this is an account that has its own discord too.
It's a terrible discord. So you're not going to find me in there because I would just make it worse for everybody. Honestly, I'm awful at discord. But crypto poetry, they tweet about a lot of different poets that are on there. Their account is such that it's a manageable size right now where you could look through and just see a ton of people to follow. Anyone they follow, I probably follow every single
single person that they follow. So that's a great list to like to get going. And I love your point Greg about collecting first. It really irks me. I love onboarding people, but I have onboarded people where they show up and just expect people to buy their poems. And that is not how this works people, you know, get in there and support other people.
We are a web-through community. This is not, you know, go back two years ago and maybe get away with that. But this is a bear market and we all have to huddle together. Yeah, no doubt about that. And what's great about poetry and of teases is that, I mean, there are, of course, are some that are expensive. But, you know, most
Poetry NFTs can be picked up fairly and expensively. And so it is another reason why I like it so much is at least at the moment, you know, it kind of feels like early days and you know, you can go out and find what you like and collect what you want and you're not going to break the bank in most cases. And so I
I like that a lot. It's a very cool part of the poetry and of tea space at the moment. So what about the platforms? Let's have just a little bit of a chat around where you might want to go to start creating some
or the platforms you might want to go to start collecting. So, what are the one, two, three top platforms that you suggest to new poets for creating their work? Well, that was a great segue because what actually pulled me over
And the ability to collect poems, I mean, it is so fun to collect somebody's poem for only a couple dollars and say like basically like, you know, here is a cookie because I think you're awesome and I'm buying your poem.
I love tezos for that. It's definitely my favorite change to be minting on and I'm minting primarily on objects. It's also when I onboard people, my number one suggestion for doing that because of the fact that there is a lot of poetry going on there and that's part of what pulled me over. I kept seeing people like a year ago, like I said my tezos before I even knew what tezos was.
I think I might even be pronouncing it correctly to the state, but that's a matter. I think you got it right. That's how I at least that's how I say it. So we're both wrong. We're united front Greg. Yes, yes, yes. I know I put I put a hundred dollars of Pezos in my wallet.
And I just feel like I'm the richest man. I can buy anything. Okay, so where is specifically like on tezos? Do you just like go to object and and meant directly from there or is there like a specific
platform that you really like. Yeah, I'm on objects. I have commented on the typed art. typed art is cool if you're just starting out because it is literally just what you can type in. I mean, I think it's been copy and paste also, but it doesn't have images. So it has really cool implications for poems and I've seen some some great
uses of that medium in particular. And a big believer that the type of poem should fit the platform. I think that that's something that some poets don't give as much thought to maybe as they should. So for me, I do still mint on Ethereum, so I mint on foundation. That's where I would say my bestiest.
The next riftiest collection is on foundation now. OpenC is also very user friendly, even though it's out of vote, I think for people really immersed in Web 3 at this point when we're attending to go other places. But it's also a reasonable option. So I would say that my top three would be missing on object foundation.
and then on the old open sea unglamorous as it is these days perhaps. Have you best around with manifold at all? I am so meaning to because too and I was sad Greg because you just had a mint on manifold and I was going to collect it this morning because I wallet got disconnected from my thing and I had to deal with
You know, re-importing my seed blah blah blah. I'm like, I'm gonna connect and I just missed your mint. So I feel like such a jerk. But that was a wonderful journey. Well, you can you can pick one up off the secondary for four east. I think that's the. That's the ashtwas off ashtras offering some for one east in the
chat. So yeah, you know, they're a bargain right now. Well, well done. My fault for being party on that one for sure. But manifold looks super cool. Everybody's telling me, hey, you know, I'm in on manifold yet and I need to say, it looks great. It looks like it's a great interface. I definitely collected from manifold. Unfortunately,
I'm not nervous because I would be like rolling in it apparently right now. Maybe you missed out on generation well. Well, maybe yeah, and I know Ash has some experience. I'm manifold and so maybe we can convince him to come up at the end of
the show and chat a little bit about Manifold. But I know that's another place where I'm actually collecting a lot, not a lot, but I've collected a few pieces here recently that I've really enjoyed. So that's another option. So Tezos and Eith are the two crypto chains that I think have the most robust
Poetry NFT communities. Tezos would be considered a cheaper, maybe less reach, but very easy low transaction fees in a very robust community. It is maybe where there's a little more potential for financial gain.
But it's a little higher cost associated with that. And so you just have to, I guess you just have to balance those two things right as a as a creator trying to figure out which of these two you want to go to. Yeah, I think that's an excellent distinction for anybody just starting out today. I would recommend, you know, getting into Tezos.
the following, build a community, and then just really make sure to be aware of the differences among platforms so that your work can stand out in all the good ways within the platform that you're choosing to make. And I think building up to Ethereum is better personally. Yeah, I think you're right about that. So what about additional
about some of the, you know, theory that goes into sort of pricing and putting together a collection of poems. Yeah, this is a really exciting aspect to me about being in the
space so early where everyone is trying to experiment with this. I mean, it wasn't actually that long ago that people got into additions and yet it feels like it was 100 years ago within terms of how much the space has moved into that. So in general, of course, with supply and demand, you can price, you're going to want to price things that have additions.
Lower and of course the more additions the lower you're going to want to price as as a benchmark of course But within that, you know, there's a lot of play and a lot of experimentation, you know, I still I keep my foundation collection is is one of ones My open-sea collection is one of ones too in part because man I minted my first one of those
It was over two years ago now, which feels like in turn in the NSG poetry space. So that was like before editions actually, which is funny to think about now. But I tend to mix it up with my own editions. I used to be a little bit more obsessed with like within a collection, always having the same number of editions.
I did this thing where I decided I was going to give a poem away for everybody that was a subscriber of the NFC literary magazine The Tickle that a Chinese-ean-man runs. And so I did that and then I realized like, you know, I don't have to rigidly stay to every single poem is going to have within this collection.
this number of editions. So I would say don't be so afraid of making a mistake with that kind of thing. We're still early and we're just experimenting and nobody knows exactly what's going to work. Just avoid the mistake of pricing your editions like they're one of ones because nobody is going to be happy with that. That much I feel that experiment is ended and no
nobody wants to do that. Yeah, and actually let's not let's expand on that just a just a hot minute. What exactly do you mean by that? Because I think it's a really important point and if you're new to all of this and new to pricing, be a little bit more specific on that because I think you're right. Sure. Okay.
So let's say I have a poem that I meant a hundred editions on. So I could sell you know a hundred of the same exact poem that everybody could own one copy of. Okay. So and then I have a one of one. So a poem where only one of this poem exists on the blockchain. This is all that there is ever going to be. That one of one should
be priced a lot higher than buying an individual poem on the blockchain. In an individual edition, I'm sorry, I need to say more clearly since I'm trying to explain it clearly. If you own one of something and there are a hundred of them, then it should be worth less than you own one of the only one of that in the metaverse.
Yeah, perfect and you know, I think the other thing that a new cult new artist and new creators have to weigh is that each time someone collects your work They now they have a connection to you that is very
And you can sort of leverage that with community building and just starting to build relationships. And so, you know, that's the other problem with having a one of one is one person buys it. And that's it. If you have a hundred and let's say 80 people, uh, meant those hundred additions,
You know you have 80 people that have you can start to build that community around so I think that's another Thing to think about if you're new there's nothing wrong with you know, I think small amounts and larger editions if you're thinking about this idea of building a community and I know
that for us that are riding on mirror, we try to think about that as well. I think also though you can go too far, right? I would guess, I mean with mirror I think about this. I don't want to offer a thousand additions if there's only going to be 15 people that want it. Do you think much about like how many additions
based on sort of supply and demand. Yeah, I definitely do. And this thing is so it's great if you can always burn things too, which is nice. Particularly in tezos where you're not paying an armulate in a late to burn something, which is great. Once I actually did something really dumb and minted
a crypto coos, it's like a high coo, and I minted it in my little poems collection. And Timothy Green, who's in the audience now, that's my co-host for the poetry space, was like, "Okay, did you mean to mint it?" And then I said, "No!" And then Asu was also in the audience and already bought it and they kindly burned theirs.
to hide my shame and mistake and then I just pre-mixed it in the collection it was meant to. So don't be ashamed. Like, and that wasn't a mistake. I made like a year ago either guy. I wanted to circle back to what you said, Brett, because I loved your point about connection because that was
One of the reasons too why I'm so excited about NFTs for poetry because it's like if you publish a book, a poetry book, a traditional book, and you know, I would say like it goes really well, which is maybe like a couple hundred people buy it, which is like that would be I see at least for my knowledge of very successful poetry book and the schema things, you're not going to hear back from
many of those people. You're not going to be able to know, well, who's collecting my work? Who's connecting with it? And how can I build them up and create this beautiful Web 3 community and help do that? And that's one of the huge strengths available with NFC poetry is like, even if it's just an address so to speak that you're connecting with, you can see who's
choosing to invest in you as a poet because that's what you do when you buy somebody's poem. You invest in a poet, you know, and that's so important. The connection and the ability that, you know, the more connection, the more people want poems. And so that's going to help fuel us as well. Yeah, that's spot on. So where
Where are you know, where do NFT poets hang out? Where are you all hanging out right now? Where can I get connected with other NFT poets? Yeah, so that's something I struggle with, like what I'm talking about at the beginning too, where I was so happy.
to find odd writings on Facebook of all places. Like the last two people under 100 years old on Facebook just kidding. I've alienated the entire audience now. That's great. But it is hard. There are friends discord, but honestly I think Twitter is the best place. You know, I found a lot of people through like I was saying that crypto poetry
Twitter, just people tweeting at each other and just, you know, connect. Like, you know, the algorithm takes a lot of flack, but honestly it points me to a lot of NSP poets that I didn't know. I'm trying to learn more about poets that meant on Salana because I've never meant it on Salana. And so that's kind of a weak point that I have in my
I can you leave that I want to build up. So just paying attention on Twitter since I know you guys are all on Twitter is a great way to go about it and just making individual connections are more how this is being born right now is the reality of things. Yeah, right on. I, I pinned a poetry thread I created.
back in January. And in that thread, I have a list of lots of poets to follow. So I will link that thread in the show notes of the podcast as well so that people have it. And then if there's more resources that we can give to people, okay,
We'll do that. So gosh, it's hard to believe, but we're coming up against the in the hour here in the next 10 minutes or so. Let me just quickly reset the room with Katie Dozier here talking all about poetry and fts really trying to
to create a resource for those people that might be coming new to the space and wanting to learn about how to create their first poetry NFTs. If you're in the audience today, if you want to ask a question in the chat, feel free to click that button on the bottom right. You can ask a question in the Twitter feed and I'll be able to answer it.
But again, we've got some really talented poetry and FT folks in the audience feel free to come up Comment on anything that we've talked about I think we've really touched upon some really important pieces here about you know why you might want to start using NFTs for your
poetry. We've talked about coming out and getting collecting first and going and finding other work that you respect and that you like. And then we've talked about creating the actual poetry and of tease. It doesn't have to be crazy, right? It can be Google Docs. It can be a photo, you know, just make it intentional.
I love that comment. And then we've talked about sort of how to price and put the additions together. And then we've also talked about going to Tezos and ETH for those two communities. So I think we've done a nice job of kind of putting it all together. Katie, I'll ask a question and then I'll start kind of bringing some people up.
What are some of the things that excite you about poetry and fts? What are some of the things that you're really looking forward to over the next couple of months, but maybe even over the next couple of years?
your poetry in a few, you referenced it all like it wasn't a big deal, it was an amazing thread and your threads are so good and we're so lucky in web 3 writing that you're putting them all out there making it better one thread at a time. But anyway, back to your question. So what's exciting to me is, as a brief anecdote, I was in London
last fall, because I was on a panel for NFT in YC, held in London, which sounds like, you know, see more on Zodiac existed. So anyway, I was in the tape modern, and I was looking at all of this, you know, the cutting edge art, it's like just crazy, and the funny thing was, was that I was looking at these famous artworks by the biggest names and contemporary art
And they were reminding me of like poetry NFTs that I've already seen as though those were done after the fact, you know, and so that's really what I see. I see we go into galleries and we see poems like I was talking about NFT poems and then I am really excited about the expansion of being what a poem even means, you know, it does it, you know, with
disability to have the striking visual elements and just the directions that everybody wants to go in. And most importantly, I'm just excited about it as an antidote to what is wrong with the world right now. We just need poetry and NFTs, I think, are the best way to get that into people's hands in a way that stays in their hands
for ever because it's always alive on the chain and I'm so excited to hear from some of the people in the audience because I see people that I really am a big fan of so thank you for coming to everybody. Yeah that's great and speaking of conferences you are speaking at NY
C and Ft correct or in Ft and YCNN every now which one comes first but Yes, I am reading a panel with the title the future of poetry so I really got to pack a lot into 25 minutes and On that panel is going to be Timothy Green who's in the audience Sasha style set is
You know, probably the biggest name in NFC poetry. That's just an amazing representative for NFC poetry. It is doing really cool things. And then also Johnny Z. Mann, who is the editor/publisher of that NFT literary magazine I referenced earlier, the tickle. That's also doing -- he's also a poet in this poetry.
of keys as well. So I'm super excited about that. It's only like just over a month away, I believe. Right on. Well, I am doing the same. I'm doing a panel and we're talking book NFTs and a similar size panel. And I'm hoping that we are really close
I hope that like you guys are first and then we're behind you or vice versa or something because I'm hoping that I can see your panel live because I think it's gonna be an awesome discussion And I can be there and take photos and you know all kinds of fun stuff so it should be good I want to see yours too. I don't want to go right after yours
to be honest because I want to be good and comparison but I hope definitely want to see her and it's so exciting I can't wait I really hope that it works out to get to meet I bet it will yeah I bet it will too okay we've got a couple of great speakers up here uh future Dora I'll let you start the floor is yours thanks Greg and hello
Katie and everybody up there. Listening, I just wanted to add and such a beautiful conversation and I think stepping, you know, points that you guys made for, you know, in real life poets to come into Web 3 and also just who aren't poets that are in Web 3 and become poets because
inspiration. And I think just one thing I wanted to touch us from my experience and you know being in different communities and of course yours as well Katie just there's also this fine line of like in you know in web 2 and web 3 crossover in in the spaces and being able to still read
and have that human connection. So it's not just an NFT that you're selling, but there's also somebody behind it collecting it. And as well as how this space really fosters collaboration. And I find that so beautiful. You'll be in a space not poetry specific, but just
in an artist's space or you know a space randomly that you went into and you know you're just sharing your art or your process and you know there's a photographer that likes with a poem that you recited and there's synergy there and then you create this kind of another means of poetry you know an execution that I feel like it's it's so
untouched and so valuable in the Web 3 space. And yeah, I think I just wanted to add that and also some advice or poets that are coming, you know, to the spaces to be open, have an open mind and join these, you know, spaces with Greg where it's super informative and, you know, it'll make you kind of go back
to what's on your drawing board and take those knowledge and elements and everything. Yeah, that's it. That's fantastic advice. Thank you. Spaces in particular are just such a great place to connect and network and
If you can get the strength and it's hard at the beginning, but if you can get the strength to come up and speak, I think you really will find that's where the connections are made. But you know, easy for me to say I've been doing this for almost a year, but I assure you my palms were sweaty.
my heart race, my heart was racing and I'm pretty sure I made a complete fool of myself the very first time I spoke on a space so we're all the same humans it's just a matter of getting over that so that would be my one thought. Ash my friend what's up
Good morning from the midnight of India and it is very unlikely that I am awake at this point of time but I was feeding productive today and a space that is done by Greg that is on poetry and that is where Katie is speaking is something that I can never
miss because Katie has forgotten me to invite to her special spaces whenever she does spaces. So I've never spoken to her but she's like a very, very good poetry friend, very good heart and soul. Keeps traveling so much, right? Sporty on the
playing and I think I am the only one with a full set holder still on the crypto coup. I can't remember but yes I'm happy to be here because anywhere where poetry is happening I'm bound to be there if I'm awake and it was a fantastic conversation to listen to to
both of you and you know every time you're talking all of these questions and you know perspectives on poetry I have so much to say but not tonight because it's almost 3.30 here but I wanted to be present here I wanted to listen to what you know you and Katie are talking about when it comes to NFTs and poetry because
I have myself like a year and a half experience of being a poet in the NFTs in Wrecked Space. So it's just beautiful to know more people adapting to understand that words are art and poetry is art and you know you should respect the poets as artists.
It is over and yes, Katie. That's right. I just say ask you to. It's so nice to finally hear your voice because we've had so much interaction and I have to confirm that you were the only person that holds every single crypto-cute. And I also have to say I love your nodes of niceness collection. You have so many great homes out there.
but particularly like you just shine light in the poetry, web three space within a tease and like the community is so much better because of you both through what you tweet and everybody that you lift up and through your own poetry and the light that you shed on it because it's just you inspire me both as a poet and as a friend so thank you.
Thank you very, very kind of you. I think with your crypto cool collection, I think the way you're breaking norms, I think it's going to be more inspirational to the upcoming words who are still not on the platforms and are not minting NFTs because by the traditional way and formats of poetry
when they're limited to verses and rhymes and etc. In bits of all of that, if we see more people creating examples and case studies where it's free words and you can create your form and you can be yourself by creating poetry
as an art is the way you like. I think it's very inspirational because while poetry is struggling to be sold at higher prices as form of art, just word or something because most poets are bound to pages and pen and ink and they are just in their minds and words.
I think web 3 and NFTs open a lot more possibilities if you just put a little more effort when it comes to presenting it well because I have tried everything in terms of just text and then picture poetry like you're saying you started off with a picture poetry
as well. And then doing spoken word with pictures, then doing spoken word with AI and now using my original poetry to create AI art and then you know, probably do a mix of both only AI art or AI art plus words or AI art plus spoken word. So the possibilities are endless, but
given you are absolutely completely ignorant of the market, but you are consistent. You'll have to make your mark as a writer, as an author, as a poet in this space that poetry is here to stay. And the, you know, like you're mentioning, like Greg and all of you are mentioning about the worst words and what Anna and Sasha and everyone
is doing right now. These are the stepping stones to what poetry has the possibility to create and I just see poets and poetry multiplying every single day and you know you, me, Greg, everyone and a lot of poets in the in the listening panel are ready to onboard the next wave of poets
like the next wave of artists and it is going to get it's due as an art form eventually but I have seen a lot of peak points for poets and poetry happening already like Sasha's poem going to Christie's and having a 4.5 each sale it is insane right
I mean, it was never possible before imagine like a $5,000 sale even for a book. It would take years and now it is coming from one NFT. I mean, what else could we not do? And it was not even visual art. It was not even a very technical
you know high end visual art. It was words but it had the conviction. It had the conviction of the author. It had the conviction of person believing in poetly as art and then reaching out to you know the relevant authorities and just being on to it. I think we talk about
being early, but I think we are still very early. 2023, 2022 and 2023 are the basic earliest years possible to NFTs and Web 3 as a whole, but for literature NFTs to blow up, I think the next two years are going to be super important is what I feel.
Well said Ash and you are a legend in the right three space I am so appreciative your help and guidance and support and your creativity and all of it and so I am so thankful for for you to be able to
a part of this community. Thanks for helping up here and sharing some of your thoughts and to your continued to success, my friend, which I know is coming. Odd writings on Facebook. You're hanging out on Facebook, huh? Yep.
I'm an oldie. I'll say two things real quick. For new people, don't be afraid of trying new and strange and different things because the people here are very, very supportive and you will get a lot of supportive feedback and you'll become a better poet for it.
And secondly, what was I going to say, secondly, draw a blank of course now that it's 402? Oh, and that's okay. I know we've got a couple of more minutes, but you're absolutely right. I mean, I think that one of the things that all of us have is correct.
Creators in the web three space is we get this paralysis by analysis and we just it happens to me all the time I just freak out about what I'm gonna do and what how should I price it and what you know what happened and it's fine. It's fine like you know, it's it's gonna be okay and
We just need to put ourselves out there, keep creating, keep trying, because every time you do something, your learnings are insane. I mean, they're absolutely insane. In a real short story, I had a call with an old colleague of mine, somebody who I had worked with in the financial services for 20 years.
I hadn't talked to this individual in like a year. And when I spoke to this colleague of mine, it blew me away how much I had learned. He asked me some questions about this world. And just in the last couple of years, my learning curve, I've learned 20 years worth of stuff.
off in basically 18 months. And that's only because we're out here doing it. So it may not feel like you're learning a lot, but believe me, put yourself out there, jump on Twitter spaces, mint that NFT, you know, chill your work. It's fine. It's fine. Nobody. It's okay.
If you can't show yourself who's going to show for you, right? So, you know, it's fine. All of it's going to be okay. You're in a safe space in the right three community. Odd writings, you're absolutely right. You know, we've got all kinds of people doing different things and trying different things and we love it all.
odd did you remember your your second thought i i did indeed uh... don't don't give up if you if you if you for new people you know if you if you put something out there and it seems like no one's purchasing it feels kind of like oh boy people are sick or me uh... keep on trying because it'll it'll it'll eventually get there so just hang on there
Yeah, that's a really excellent point. I think people are like quick to think that if they change one thing then the market instantly is going to react to that in some way, but that's just not we are not at the point of an efficient market. We are all floundering around little fish together. Yeah, especially in this.
this poetry and FT book and FTs, you know what's happening on Mirror. I mean, you know, profile pick projects we might not be early in, but the rest of this stuff I think we're still early. So, well Katie, I know that you have like me some little ones that
This is set of the witching hour of little kids stuff and so I want to be respectful your time. I want to thank everyone for being here today. I want to thank everyone in the audience today. This has been perfect. I think we've set out to create a resource for new people coming into this
space and I think that we've hit this one out of the park, so Katie fantastic. Thank you so much. I'll give you the last word. Tell us where we can find you, you know, shill us again. What's the one poetry collection that we should all be looking at?
I think the one poetry collection we should all be looking at is our own poetry collection that we can continue to make poetry infinitely better. And Greg, I really want to thank you for everything you do for the Web 3 Write community. I've learned so much from your spaces. And when I first started listening, I was like, "Baby, one day he'll ask me to be on his face. That would be so cool."
And I enjoyed it even more than I could have imagined. Thank you so much for everything you do. And I really, really hope that our panels earn it a complete time so that I can come to you in New York in like a month from now. And I just want to thank everybody for showing up. You guys are so awesome. And as you, I think if you have a special shout out, it's like what? Now you said 3am or 3am#
something. I was so excited when I got to hear your voice for the first time after everything you've done for this space especially. And Featured Dora is always great to hear from you and thanks for you for coming into the poetry space with George a lot of the time and then also my co-hosts who's in the audience to see green and the poetry space is every Thursday
I'm going to be one at 3pm Eastern, so I'd love it if you guys checked it out and popped over to my Twitter. I will follow back anybody who kindly listened to me babble on for this amount of time. So thank you guys. All right, well, we might have to get you back just to go over poker techniques.
because I'm horrible at it. But anytime I can play the gamblers a good start to the show so I appreciate that. Appreciate you being on the show. Yeah, let's go out there and continue to build and write Web 3 together. You all have a great Tuesday. See ya.