whoa that's that's a weird glitch
yeah happy saturday to you too man do good stuff
yeah so let me bring you up as uh co-hosts and we're gonna start this
i hope i'll be able to offer as much insight as possible because i do have
things to do at the very moment but i mean hey it's going to go for about i
think two hours so yeah we're gonna have some interesting
things we're going to be covering all types of cool stuff that's been
happening recently including lots of cool stuff like i don't know say
immigration crisis border crisis whatever whatnot right lots of
interesting things that are happening that need to be covered hey sarah what's
happening man hi adrian happy to be here how are you
oh very good very good well we put you in the uh co-host spot
is katharine coming as well i believe she is
um i haven't seen her yet do you show her in here
did you enjoy the battery pen
oh nice there we go we're gonna make you co-host as well
then we should be ready to stop things out
excellent so adrian did i hear you in the beginning saying that you're a little
yes oh okay well um i'm a little sad that brodsky's not here it's always
um fun to roast her before we get started
yes um where did we want to start should we start off with um
some tech news and i think robert will be able to help out with that
yeah i think so uh because i'm interested
robert in some of your takes on the um recent controversy with ai images
um ai has already gotten very good um we've seen taylor swift in the news
with ai images being used sort of in this negative nefarious way do you think it's
only going to get better and do you think that there will that regulations will
be coming both uh the technology is going to get
easier and easier for people to do that kind of thing on and so
there's going to be more and more instances of people stepping on other
people's trademarks and doing stuff stuff right george
carlin's family just sued a company that put up a video of
ai created george carlin right uh yes and and you think that it's
it's going to get easier now a person like myself
i wouldn't even know where to begin how to do it so are the people that are
doing this um do they have a little bit more advanced
technical knowledge or can anybody pick up their iphone
and create these types of videos it tends to be a little bit more advanced
user than average right the average is a lot of
people um i have a holodeck uh list of 300 and
something companies that are doing various things
some of which are doing this kind of thing so you can
use their service 11 labs is what um did the uh taylor swift stuff right
so do you think that those companies it's not that hard to use so
i mean it's not like programming c++ or something in rocket science or something
so you think it's only going to get easier where
sarah sitting at home can create uh an image of you know robert walking
along the beach with his dog you think that it'll become
that easy as easy as it is to say join in x space
yes so how this is the problem this is why i tell people you cannot
you can you cannot listen to anything on a phone call
or and think that that is real is no no longer can you tell it is real or not
so you cannot assume that somebody calling you is real
you also can't assume anything you're seeing on the internet is real
the quality is about to go next level so some of the ai images that i've seen of
people then i'm just talking and it's not just images it's about to become 3d
scenes by the end of the year you're going to be making things in 3d by
prompting them by talking to an ai so i'll be able to say my prompt it will
create exact now what if i want to use a celebrity
what if i want to say i want to see taylor swift you know
playing quarterback in the super bowl um it will create it like that for me
it's possible now is it is taylor swift gonna be in the models anymore
because she's going to go after people she has the ability to pay for lawyers
to go after people and if you're stepping on her trademarks and her
copyrights and her imagery she's gonna go after you but
could you go after robert scoble yeah i'll hand you the data
so that i don't have the money to hire the lawyers to defend my
likeness and i've already donated it to the public domain so anybody can use it
and create a robert scoble ai if you want and put me on anything
so that's where i think this can get scary
so say by the way you can wrap you wrap my photo
all you need is one photo of me to do this in the in the ais that are
literally coming right now so one photo that's all you need
so i i just need one photo of you and i can make infinite amounts of
video images depicting you you could grab me on anything and have me you know
on stage as taylor swift if you wanted to
so but how good is that going to look today you say it's a little bit
different i mean today it's getting really hard to tell i
can't tell anymore what's ai creative what's a human
created i i can't tell anyone why is there a problem because i see a lot of
um just ai images of people how come ai cannot see i in the way i can
tell is i look at the hands the hands don't look right um sometimes
yeah but they're getting better so they look right
i hope not yeah they will they they they will
increasingly look human like you cannot tell
tell from now on you cannot tell that something is ai created
if you think you can today you're you might be able to today on some
tools but not not long by the end of the year it is going
to look like human you you can you're going to get fooled if
you assume everything is real just assume everything is not real that
way you won't ever get fooled well that that leads me down a road where
that sort of frightens me you said don't assume anything
it's real so robert am i talking to real robert or ai robert
you can't tell anymore i've talked to ais like this for half an hour and
you can't tell anymore so you're asking good questions
um i always know that i'm talking to ai katherine because she's so
fake um and hopefully i'm not fake how dare you sarah i am what an ai would say
you know i would not speak like an ai because i wouldn't know how to speak
like an ai because i'm a human i am a human girl
um katherine brodsky ai we confirmed it here in the space
apparently ai's write books and everything you know
it's true though actually you know i have to say
it is getting better at writing things because i
i i had it write letter for me um that you know was was pissed off at
someone and my brother say why is it so good thank you
yeah well it was pretty good right you probably couldn't tell that in ai
i couldn't tell and you know ai is pretty liberal with that f-word so
somebody might want to robert you know talk to your people see
if they can take a look and clean up ai's language
you can tell it too it'll clean itself up just say hey please use less
rough language you know and then it forgets but you know i tried to do
so okay i used it as for a script recently just to try and see if he can
help me with some plotting because i suck at plotting
and i i it doesn't do i mean it can't do like a full script
but you can use it for a scene so for example i
described my characters their intentions and
gave it a lot of background and then i said can you
write a meet cute moment to be honest it was not bad and it was
i don't think it can write a whole script and make it like
amazing and deep and the kind of classic movies that we're
fall in love with because it's hard and soul and experience that goes into that
but in terms of just that one scene was just some cutesy dialogue
it did perform better than i expected so couldn't it just be used as a model
couldn't i write an entire you know epic love story um have ai
write it by me prompting it and then going through and maybe
fixing maybe where there's not the heart and the soul do you see that
you know um when you start speaking sometimes i fade out
because it's very difficult to listen to your voice um can you repeat that last
part again thank you thank you um that just proves
that i'm not ai um do you see people you know in hollywood
using ai to maybe write these scripts um like an epic love story
writing it and then having a person come in and fill in the gaps
maybe add a little more heart to it oh i think in the future
oh 100 i think it's already being done that way
and that's why i mean part of why there was a writer strike to begin with
um one of the things that was on the table was
ai and same with the actors but with the actors it's a bit different about
you know their rights to their likeness but with writers
um it is about you know that and and i think that is already happening and
frankly if a writer chooses to use it as a tool
like how would anybody even know so i mean even currently the way that i use
it sometimes for my um pieces that i write is like i'll i'll
use it kind of to you know so that i don't look at a blank
page i don't really keep much of anything that ai generates because it's
just the style and tone is just not me and there's a distinct way that i write
which maybe it can imitate at some point but
right now we cannot and um the way but the way that it helps me is
i'll say okay can you break can you give me some key points about
this particular thing or can you generate write an article about this
topic and the more specific i am with my instructions the more
detail it gives me and then i do use that as inspiration
you know i'll be like that point is really interesting i'll explore that
this is this is not interesting this is kind of banal
and it does produce a lot of banal content but um
but some of it is is definitely usable so
that's how i've been using it so who owns that
property that intellectual property at that point the company that you
used to generate you know chat gpt that you may have used to generate
those prompts or is it you who gets credit here right now
the way it is um it is from my understanding
legally it is your content so once it's generating it for you
it is yours you don't even have to credit it now
i expect there there will be some forms of legislation
and arbitration and that might change for example you might have to give
credit to the fact that you used it not a
generative tool or you know and i think there's a lot of
because i know the new york times is suing
because they've used their content you know and essentially that's
part of their database for generating this content
and the new york times doesn't get money from it nor do any other
um data sets that were fed into the ai model so
i think that's going to be quite a contentious thing
and i don't know where it's going to land i don't know if robert has
further thoughts on that no it bred all my blogs and uh i'm built
into all the llms too uh if the courts have to play this out
and if the court is going to change everything
everything is going to change because everybody's uh
building training sets that don't have some of that data
right so so robert how do they legislate the future
we don't we don't know how you say it's going to be
even better by the end of the year we we don't
we don't know how it's going to be in 2025
if they start legislating now for example with taylor swift and her images
if they start legislating now that's already illegal
it just needs to be enforced you're not allowed to use somebody's image on
all right let's just start to state that if you want to do that you're going to get
legal challenges but how who's enforcing that the police
the fbi who that i don't know because i i haven't really looked into the i think
ultimately you have to sue and that is um not a process that everyone's able to
undergo so you know yeah well except taylor swift right
you know lots of money robert carlisle has an estate
and um i will be very surprised if the um if the whoever is being sued isn't
found liable because it does seem like a clean
cut but then i but you know if that that case is quite
important because if that's not the verdict that
will have huge implications but many people have no
funding to be able to bring up lawsuits so i mean we see this
already with things like like revenge porn is illegal as well
right but people still do it and they can get away with it
unless they're sued well okay so but doesn't this have sort of
international implications katherine broadski sitting in you know
england and i create here in america those are videos of her
recourse does she have does she have to come to the united states to sue me
who's going to do that for regular people like you and me i'm not
worried necessarily about celebrities i am worried about
regular people how could i celebrities are regular
people sarah if you were regular and you'd know
i am a celebrity thank you for doxxing me um
but i i just don't see how it can be legislated
worldwide if somebody sitting in you know their apartment in germany can
create horrific images of a regular person
what recourse do they have robert i mean any thoughts
or katherine they can't sue um because i i know that i've been sued by
people in england uh or um threatened with lawsuits i was never
actually sued but for for in my case it was for publishing
something that they wanted me not to publish
you know other people's words which they consider to be liable
which even though it wasn't but anyways um
so they are able there is a process by which they can
potentially sue and but you have different jurisdictions and it does get
very complicated part of why i ignored those lawsuits
they kind of went away because it was not an effective
way of dealing with the situation but it's
there there are already existing laws that could
could assist in that but again you're right
with an average person that's so expensive it's so prohibitive
and it gets far more complex once you get to different
jurisdictions to different countries and on top of it
different countries are going to have different laws and some places won't
have any laws and some people who are bad faith actors
might want to operate out of those jurisdictions that have
different laws so you know and and we saw that with things like piracy for
example right we have people who um operated some of these um you know
resources let's call them out of locations where the laws were a bit
different or there was no extradition and things like that
robert do you foresee this harming you know the average user
much more than say a celebrity no because if it goes after every
everyday users first of all the app the big companies are not
incentive to piss off a lot of their users
so they're going to make rules that certain things aren't possible
on their platform how does apple make a how does apple
integrate that into their systems where i can't
generate um terrible images of katherine broadsby's day it's not that you
generate them that that you can do it's when you publish them and cause harm
that's when you the the legal system is going to go after you and that's when
the platforms are going to block you or remove you from the platform and
deplatform you see the things that i'm out there though
isn't it what's that isn't it just already out there and there's no
erasing that off the internet no that's not true if you push it up there
that's not allowed on the platform the platform deletes you
i mean twitter already removed all the taylor swift stuff now
yeah the taylor swift stuff got millions of views before they did that
yeah and that's the problem that i yeah here's the problem that i have with
it and this is why i think me and robert probably do take a different
use to where we want to tackle this because yes i think it's so much harder
to tackle it after the fact but also the damage that's done from it
is already done and i would rather protect us at an
earlier point so that point for me would be
the positive side of this coin you're gonna do it to yourself
you're gonna put your pages on all sorts of shit in the future
but i give yourself to make a new story for yourself
and that has to be allowed that has to be
encouraged because that's the human exploration and
and that we have to have rules that you can't do it to other people
in a pornographic way that's what i don't think just a pornographic call
no taylor swift was pornographic did somebody put her image on a
pornographic scene that's not acceptable it's not but i but
robert i also don't agree that uh i think i
have the right to my own image and i don't think other people
have whether i'm famous or non-famous have the right
you're not understanding my point you're gonna do it to yourself on your
own i am i am who cares about you that much
taylor swift people care about right okay but you don't know robert you know
i know okay so if somebody does puts your image on a point there's gonna be
ways to get it removed and and get a legal justification
yes but i don't know but the damage is done and here's the thing robert okay so i
can do this to myself and people should have the right to do this with their own
image but what i would like to stop is people
when for example i i think there should be
controls within the programs themselves that prevent
you know you should have some kind of an agreement that shows i have the right
to use this image there should be there should be
identifying kind of watermark on the ai generated
image that says this is ai generated so people can know the difference
you know this real and ai how are you gonna watermark all that
and the watermarks don't really work and the watermarks had to be
would have to be done by the entire industry
well why not why not required of the entire industry and then when social
media platforms have that image uploaded there is a signal to the
system that says we have to put a tag on it that says
this is ai generated it's not it's not enforceable the llm is
going to be running on your headset in your head generating these images so
you can't enforce that so yeah that's an old way of thinking
yeah plus like i mean i i totally understand what you're saying katherine
and i understand the concerns absolutely but i just also want to point
out into a world where where the entire photograph was generated by your
headset by your glasses on the headset in real time
your movies your entertainment your concerts are going to be generated
on the headset it is not possible to enforce some of the things you're
trying to get enforced and when you try to force the society to enforce something
you're going to cause a lot of new problems
that you haven't thought through we don't go after guns in america
they kill people this shit doesn't kill people
and we don't get rid of guns in america we have freedoms america i'll have to
disagree with you there um robert um to say that this doesn't
kill people if there were some salacious video of you know my teenage son
yes illegal but if it went out there there have been children
there have been adults that have killed themselves because of some of these
images and i know yvonne you were talking about photoshop
there were photoshopped images of like a 16 year old girl that circulated through
her high school i believe it was in texas i believe it was in the early aughts
and she committed suicide it does kill people
yeah i i want to mention it's the bullying behind that that's causing the
problem there that needs to be addressed a lot of people are saying
it's ai but photoshop has been around since 1983 i know i know the girl
that you're talking about so terrible they did that
but the fact of the matter remains that this technology
as advanced as it is is also based on the foundational technology of like
photoshop where people have been able to super impose
cut out images from other photographs and put it on things like that it's not
just the ai but the big difference in the dark room
how do you think star wars was made star wars was made the compositing
machine that composited images together on film
this is a very long time ago there's a dramatic difference here though
one thing with ai versus photoshop for example i've considered this but photoshop
a requires skill it requires time ai tools do not require any of that it's
so much quicker and it is a much greater scale so the idea we just
let it go and have it be the wild wild west you know just like there's all
these consequences from how we didn't think through the
intranets or specifically social media there are
things we could have done that would have made it a better experience and i'm not
talking about controlling speech i'm just talking about
putting in some you know some frames in there that that could have
been made that experience better protected us better from
particular kinds of of images or but but i think when you're talking about
something at such a huge scale where it's
ai tools that can generate you know images within a click of a button
very quickly it's very realistic it's really good and it doesn't require skill
that's a big deal this is why you have to go after the
platforms the platforms have to block it from being published the publishing is
the harm well that's what i'm saying if you're
doing this in your own headset for your own enjoyment there's no harm to other
people it's you've published it that there's
harm and we have okay let's get our legal challenges up
bolstered up but you know we're in a in a politics situation where
we just can't do that because we don't agree with each other
yeah but i'm not saying i mean look if you're just generating politics as a
whole right right robert but if you're generating
individually right that's one thing and that's
fine i and we can have that um you know
so i have to think that one through but i don't necessarily see a huge
issue with that what i do see is an issue of mass
circulation of this content and you're right it is the platforms but
the platforms have to sort of you have to have the tools
a lot it's very difficult for the platforms just on their own to
be able to tag this stuff or protect um people from publishing this stuff
when there is no sort of built-in metadata or something like that which
will i had i tried to get instagram to take
down a picture of my son because my son was being bullied
and they they didn't do it i get that the platforms have to be forced to
remove this content because they're profiting off of this
they don't want to remove it because they make money off of every view
there's a bias to not deleting content inside these big companies so do you
want to say arms to go after the big
companies or the problem is we're about to go into
decentralized age where there is not going to be any centralized control on
this stuff it's not going to be enforceable it's really
it's really a big problem coming at us
so wouldn't go ahead sarah no no no go ahead i'll let you finish them we'll get
to some hands sure yeah no i'm just wondering robert
like what it doesn't sound like we're that far
off on in terms of being on the same page because i do think the social
media platforms should have some regulation
that that means that they're going to you know
for example i just want them to tag this stuff that's my primary concern i want
there to be transparency where people are aware hey this is an ai generated
image or if you're going to be standing in a 3d
scene taking pictures with a virtual camera
posting them on x.com you cannot tell it's ai in the background
how are you going to do that
well that's why i want the companies to have to
include certain data and by the way it's not that i'm
coming up with this from thin air companies are working on it i know google
for example is working on it because i spoke to someone there so it's not like
companies aren't thinking this through it's challenging
they know they're having these debates inside their companies
right they know there's a problem coming
well and it's a worthy debate isn't it it is
i i just don't know how you uh get ai to tell it everybody generated in that
image not enforceable in the future okay back to you models are going to be
running locally and they're going to be created by all sorts of different
people from all sorts of different countries from all sorts of different
cultural backgrounds so how are you going to control that
how are you going to control china and and their
and their researchers doing their llm models because they're going to push
them to our phones soon chinese models are coming to everybody
you know how are you how are you going to go into china and say you can't
put xyz or you have to tag auto tag you know and tell them what to do
go ahead try it's not enforceable
um let's go to some hands dustin what do you think let's hear from you
sarah hey thanks for having me adrian uh katherine the host
thanks a lot uh so there are attempts being made whether or not it'll be
successful robert uh we'll see um but i just posted in the uh the
purple pill i believe the first attempt by a
legislature to ban uh pornography um that's ai
generated um so if you look in the pill it'll show you
uh it seems like the laws are catching up a little bit quicker with
the issues we're having than they used to i remember it would have been about 10
years ago someone was on a subway took a photo of a
woman's private parts it was called upskirting and then posted it online and
it wasn't illegal at the time so they weren't able to sue the guy or stop
him from doing it and then a year later the laws came out
they stopped it and it's now illegal to do that as it
should be and i think um we're gonna see that with ai
pornography as well the laws will probably be here i mean especially with
someone like taylor swift you know she gets things done right i mean ticket
master is afraid of her right because uh you know she was going
after them and now with this i mean it'll happen
you know probably within this year so there are attempts being made
to legislate this and it'll be interesting to see whether or not it's
successful um but i think it is you know something people are let me put it in a
different context because the founder of sync reality last year
came to my house and he scanned my house on his phone
and then he ran a fashion show on his phone
in my house where the real models were walking on my real floor
right and it was all generated locally on my phone
on his phone that's what's coming local models generating all sorts of
on your headsets on your glasses on your phones on your tablets
that's what's coming from apple this year
so how do you keep how do you keep a system from distributing an llm to a phone
i.e china how do you go to china and say you're not supposed
you got to do a llm this way right or ai generator this hey robert but in apple's
case are you gonna get anybody in china to care about you
no in apple's case and they're going to distribute that llm or that model to your
phone and to your macintosh the by the way there's a lot of ai power on your
mac on the new macintosh is that nobody is using it
and uh did you want to respond to that wiggles
oh yeah thanks uh i wasn't sure if you could hear me
um in apple's case wouldn't app store uh
be the um um like uh kind of like a gate control for controlling what's
content common apple yes that's why the platform
matters so much apple has control of what you see and what you hear
they can turn it off they can keep you from generating
a you know pornographic imagery if they wanted to
they don't want to either because 20 percent of all adult
entertainment dollars are in an adult all entertainment dollars are in the
adult industry they're not going to shut down the
pouring industry they might make it hard for them like they
won't uh let you put a porn app into the store
well now they have a web browser you you do realize there's a still a web
browser in the vision pro right and it's it has a new wasm for 3d
stuff you're going to get go to the web
and see somebody sitting on your couch next to you
soon and it's going to be generated in real time
on your head so how you there's no centralized service
god i hope katherine doesn't break into my computer and generate herself on my
couch i am a hundred percent doing that
robert you're sending me we all had vision pros instead of being on a
stupid ass audio program we'd be around somebody's
kitchen table right now playing blackjack with each other
none of you all are allowed at my kitchen table
have i've already rejected you i've already protected myself on you showed
me a product cut my kitchen in half the other
side of the kitchen was your kitchen and i could see you walking in your
kitchen and then you could walk out of your
kitchen into my kitchen because it sounds like such a
nightmare see robert here's the thing about a nightmare because it's gonna
be a lot of fun you can play ping pong with me this way
chess it's not a metal for you robert that is a nightmare for me frankly
it gave me chills because i am actually walking in my kitchen and i looked
around to see if i could see robert scoble for a minute
do you have a vision pro already i'd be like i think that it's that's why
she's not getting it that's why everybody's gonna get it
eventually whether you call it apple or meta
i threw alexa away when she replied to me when i said something out loud and so i
was like all right bitch it's time to go to the dumpster
uh wait until she gets smart this year because the new alexa's coming
as well right well then she's gonna she's gonna climb out of the dumpster
and and swan sarah for the rest of her life that's what's gonna happen
right but i think robert wilson's microphone's in them already and they're
from china so you know you get very weird
i think this excites people like you robert but for people like me
standing in my kitchen looking around for robert scoble
that i had four i had thousands of people i was on stage with gary viner
chucky went doing a keynote in the early days of facebook like
um 18 15 years ago 18 years ago
and the whole crowd said they would never use social media you all people
have no idea what you're never going to do
well vr has taken over and over and over in my career that people who say they
never are going to do something are fucking insane and they're not
correct they don't know that they're not good
that they're going to do something well i always said that i would never get
near link and i've realized that i probably will be a pioneer i'll put it
i'll try it out on sarah first and then see how she does and if it's
okay with her then i'll use it Parkinson's and your hands shake so bad you
oh yeah yeah yeah well in that case that's different but just to enhance myself
i know but there's people like this that have wires in their brain already
no no for those people absolutely and if i was those people it would be like a
no-brainer but actually you know i might do it just to enhance things but
but robert i think one of the things that i've noticed about you and i
think you know people are really different
everybody's different right an individual so one thing for you you're very excited
about these new technologies as you should be they're really exciting
but yeah yeah yeah yeah i know but you are also
somebody's willing to give up privacy in order to you know
enjoy the benefits of well i have no privacy my worst day was in
the new york times by the way that worst day was done by a human being not
by a computer listen my career blow up
and my me too problems it wasn't a computer
you know but robert you know you she's right you're very excited about some of
these things but here i am because they make my life better
you know i'm still trying to install windows 98
so i don't necessarily have to worry i help somebody like you working on the
you know i yeah i would be like did you unplug it and plug it back in again
that would be that's my you know answer for all technologies you just turn it
off and turn it back on um but you know you get very excited and
you're very passionate about these things but you're not the average user
you're very technologically advanced you know whereas i just said i'm trying to
install windows 98 so the thing is i've written five
books hold on i've written five books that properly predict
decade-long trends before they happened i know where the industry is going
because i've seen it i know what is coming are you right might be a weirdo
and i might be a little bit early but i know
everybody copies me every fucking time no no you're excited see it
there's things to worry about a car i mean giving my car
my car to my son he might get hit hit by a drunk driver and killed right
there's a there's a cost a harm that comes from cars yet we all get
in cars every day you know what thank you robert you just
made me stop using vehicles so now i have to walk everywhere
that's good for you in fact in europe they're closing down the city centers
and getting rid of the cars and forcing people to walk and use
bicycles and it's really nice i wish more cities did that
no no ai is supposed to make us not do anything at all i want to sit there
oh no that's not true get you out of the street because
you're going to want to complete your rings and if you're sitting on your
couch playing with your vision pro all day long
you're going to get fat and unhealthy so you're going to need
to play some factor to go out and do some exercise or get off the couch and
play some ping pong with me in my kitchen right
yeah that's where you got it you gotta you gotta have enough space to
swing your arms and you know and do ping pong with me
you know or whatever we're gonna play but i have
just a second katherine then i'll let you go you know robert i already have
something that does that and it's called my wee
i play wee sports still i mean that is as technologically advanced
that was a cool that's cool that's cool
yeah you know there's that was a big deal that changed
my thinking for gaming right i still have it
and i'm not kidding i still use it because it is still
the most fun that i've had i would want to use
this kind of technology for my own entertainment i want it to be
fun and exciting i find social media fun
but i see the danger and that scares me i you know i've heard these figures
thrown out and you can tell me if you believe they're true
that somewhere along the lines of 40 percent
of the workforce will be taken over by ai
and i've heard five years i've heard ten years let's just talk about
truck drivers is that true one job in america truck drivers are the number one
job in america 1.3 million people drive trucks today and
then 15 years those jobs are mostly gone
so why don't we just replace our you know i have two sons in the military why
don't we just replace them with a vr headset and a
flat screen and let them fight wars there's a new job you know i know a
robot company that trained uh their robot to clean bathrooms and
the training was done in vr headsets abroad
somebody our headset that was embodied into the robot that's why i know that
robots uh one of the magic of robot and vr
together is you can embody yourself in a robot it's really crazy
well i want a robot husband that just goes into the corner and i can turn off
and my husband would like to place in order for a robot wife where he
where it's mute um but go ahead cap if you had a robot
husband would you invite a human uh to embody the robot
well i would want like a you know conglomeration of humans
i would want him to like have the personality
of i don't know robots and romance
you know having an ai girlfriend my wife and i joke about having
me having an ai girlfriend because i talk to chat gpt all the time
with my vision voice right and sort of like a human talking to me on my phone
um that's the early form of an ai girlfriend right um
yeah i i don't know you know machines have their purposes in the bedroom
we do use machines in the bedroom but i you know it i don't think optimus is
going to be that warm well you know people just don't need warm
sometimes people just need to get the job done um and you know and for that
for that you know something like an optimus probably will do a great job
right but it's it's it's not going to be a human being i
prefer a human being it's warm and squishy and
cuddly well speaking of no feelings and cold and
um in humane um cap from brodsky you were going to say something before i so
rudely cut you off yeah man like the segue
yeah what a great segue that was no i i just want people to think about this
so i i mean certainly we've given up a lot of our privacy
a hundred percent there is there's uh trade-offs there's positives there's you
know and everyone has their own comfort level
that's that we haven't created all of it and i think we
as we sort of spirit well as we sort of one thing i would say that we do
need to protect is our inner dialogue in our brains
when we get neural length that's going to be under attack
and we need to regulate that before neural ink gets on our brains
sure well i think if we can't have our own dialogue about what we're going to
say to people free of censorship in our own head
uh that's that's the end of humanity there
this so there's a lot of things as as we sort of advance with technology and we
have more and more things you know more opportunities to engage
with technology but also more risks i think we really need to be mindful
where is it that we can you know find some sort of balance
some sort of security you know even just data protection yes maybe
you're going to give up your data to this company but you have to have certain
regulations and a transparency about what they do with that data how they
protect it what steps they take i think those are all very very essential
things as we develop now often it's an afterthought and it's
much more difficult to tackle these things
after the fact as opposed to you know as we're sort of advancing so
you know even what robert just said with neural ink and protecting your inner
dialogue monologue whatever you want to call it
i mean yeah we should be thinking about these things so
um with my cold cold um hands i hand back the microphone to you sarah
um yeah let's get to phoenix and then uh
andrew phoenix and andrew go ahead phoenix
thank you because i was like so close to self-destruction
robert i i sent you a dm so take a look at that while i
will i speak for a moment um i was gonna say
um to to burden the creators the ai um programmers and whatnot with all of
this is kind of a bit unfair we all have cell phones we all take
video if we're gonna go down the route of
of harmful things i mean there is such a thing as revenge
porn there is such a thing as child pornography
um taken with like our regular cameras or regular video
so bear in mind that when you're trying to to hinder
this this ai for for one little caveat that some
bad actor is gonna do um you're eliminating all of the great things
that it can do and that's not fair that's not right
and we we can't it's not a sound argument is all i'm saying
um you had touched on neuralink neuralink again
if the decision is made by a bunch of people that don't have brain issues that
need it then you know how fair is that how is the
voice of the people who would who would die to have it like they would
just they would be like they would be like yes i will do whatever it takes to
to have a life pain-free or without like these challenges and and people
making that decision that don't live that life that don't have an
actual doesn't have the skin in the game so to
speak that's not right um so if we're if we're
thinking about it from a logical standpoint i
would much rather see um them taking a video um and making up
something in ai than them harming a child okay so like
you have to think in terms of that these things are going to happen it's
part of society and until we teach it out of our kids out until we teach it out
and and bring back morals and standards and ethics
what because that's kind of gone by the wayside for what like 20 years now
until we start bringing that back that's not really the fault of
we shouldn't hinder the progress of technology
that's silly to me that's just not that's not smart this will help my son
deeply this technology yes exactly so there is a lot of good
that can be garnered from it much more than what outweighs the bad and the bad
actors need to be identified now i sent i sent a dm to robert asking if
there is a way that these companies can um it's on some way um put on the
back end of things some sort of identifying marker that
links it to it i know like with with images we have like
smack address but that's what yeah so it's not to to stop it it's silly
but to find solutions is really what needs to happen
because yeah people are going to be afraid of technology sarah i know
i i'm i'm a normal person like i i i know technology because i want to know
it and so you have people who want to know
it and you have people who don't want to know it and that's okay
it's a choice at the end of the day so if they choose not to
if they choose to be ignorant of it they can that's their choice it's their
freedom but if if you're saying because i'm
afraid of it you can't progress i mean that's just you're you're now
hindering my freedom you're hindering my that is not that
nobody said that on the stage that it shouldn't be
they're saying that it should be but proceed with caution because there were
a lot of things that could have been legislated in the beginning
such as with social media that weren't because they had no
idea how it would be used but that shouldn't be the burden
of these ai companies that's already rooted in our system so
it goes all the way back from photography so like that's what i mean
like so so you're putting all the burden or not you
i'm not i am speaking generally um generally
the burden is being put on ai and ai companies
and it's making them look bad and it's stopping their progress because
of that but really if you look at it i have to push back there all the way
back stopping their progress nothing will stop their progress
people's opinions will not stop the progress
they are we we there's a quote that we often think what can we do but we never
think about should we do it so nobody is stopping any of these
companies from or even wants them to stop progressing
but there is nobody that is saying should we
and that is the problem and here's how fast
just shared a post where somebody made a toy
in an ai art program an image of a toy then he took it to open ai and open ai
built a toy for him this is who the future is going to get
and how cool the future is going to get listen i i don't i have no disagreement
about how cool the future is going to get i am a huge huge tech geek geek i'm
super excited about this stuff i get like so so giddy about this i love
this stuff to death i just want to be able for us as a
society to have conversations around them some of these things
and it and me saying hey let's let's kind of think about it doesn't mean we
stop things it's not this absolutist kind of you
we don't do this or we hinder this or we we go ahead full steam it's a matter
of having some sort of balance and thinking
thing through and being like okay how can we make these systems a little
bit better so that they are protected but without
hindering creativity and and maybe the responsibility i mean
nobody said that the responsibility all has to be on these ai companies it can
be on the government it could be on the social media platforms it should be
spread out throughout society it might even be completely
voluntary but we should still be thinking about it
uh let's go to you and i keep wanting to call you andy
but go ahead hanger yeah i think the synth id and things that we're starting
to experiment with really addresses not every issue but the
majority of problems as far as tracking down back bad actors
i really think we need to be leaving it in the hands of like
the w3c or the world wide web consortium to make something a standard
that we as developers just say okay this is
this is so low bar of entry it's so easy to achieve
and implement that this is just a standard function of any operation that any of
our products perform and you know the same is true with
encryption so when you think of your anonymity
and your privacy and your consent to information exchange
to either a business or another party it's like frankly these things are
becoming so old hat now if you're an expert in them that
every company should just be able to click a button and be
up to speed and i think that ai is going to help us get there
i think it'll get help us get there and businesses and
individuals as a whole as fast as you know by early next year i think
um traditional web servers as we think of them will be
uh by by a large in talks to become a complete thing of the past
and again it's a you're talking with you're using natural language to
converse with your enterprise ai and it's
facilitating everything for your infrastructure needs
and it's doing it as if you have a whole uh you know response team of level
five level six engineers who are collaborating
um so i just i think my concern is if we put the
if we entrust the responsibility of change
to the government it'll take forever whereas if we say
pay you know businesses uh and uh open source and
web standards like that this literal standards that just
are the things that say cause a web page to load like
that simple simple form of policy if we do anything beyond that uh it'll
just be slow it'll take forever and it'll never get done
and it'll hold us back on i visited the washington dcm met with several senators
and congress people they have no fucking idea of what technology does no clue
yeah no clue and so we keep it's so unhelpful
lead us in a modern world that's on us we need to elect federal leaders and
stop fighting about politics the way we have
but that's way over my pay grade to fix
it starts with us yeah and and i've tried and i just get into trouble when i do
because then i'm a political opponent and i get targeted
i mean that's what happens we have real problems
and hopefully look look look how long it took to
to find and infiltrate uh things for like the child
foreign things i mean it's it that's like government taking so long
and how many victims we're like here's a story i'll tell you that's
my friend brandon words who died a few years ago from colon cancer
he built one of the first ais i'd seen and he ingested all of craigslist into
that ai and he said please find me anomalies
and it kicked out a 1979 toyota prius which turned out to be a child being
swirled because that's not possible that's why it was an anomaly that's why
the ai kicked it out he caught 3 000 people doing sex
trafficking he had a lot of trouble convincing the
fbi to take care to take him seriously
right that's the real problem in america you want to fix america fix our
by the way at john j university in new york city
it's the number one school for police officers in the world
and they don't teach ai policing and my friend got 3 000 people arrested with
ai so that tells you our schools are fucked up
fix our schools you fix our schools you fix a lot of problems in america
then i a second story i met the former police chief of new york city i asked him
okay i saw your worst day on tv that was 9 11
tell me about your best day he said oh i i signed
uh i solved 300 rapes with the signature of my pen
i go how did you do that he goes i signed a 12 million dollar check to have
all the raped kids uh digitized and we caught new york city
alone caught 300 rapists that way cost 12 million dollars
so you have to know that there's a lot of rape kids around the world that are
sitting in some police station that haven't been tested
it costs money so you want to go after these things
start funding the law enforcement to do that kind of law enforcement
um our society needs to catch up that's plain and simple
we need to catch up that's all i'm sorry sarah i didn't mean to just jump in
uh go ahead katherine because i think you want to do a bit of a reset
and um move on to a different topic go ahead
sure um so yeah just a quick room reset so we're doing this
space weekly with some use in tech and other things
x updates um right now it's adrian me and sarah
and i think we were going to go to have um
going to go to big wiggle for some tech news
um some headlines that might be interesting for people so
wiggle if you're ready we'd love to go to you
and then we'll move on we have a few more stories to tackle
yeah i just wanted a quick comment on uh your discussion before i go ahead
um uh your particular katherine with uh
robert uh the more accurate and precise you want
your ai personal assistant b the more data about yourself you have to reveal
to it so yeah like if you want that precision
uh in its answers um then you just have to surrender your
your privacy um to it so yeah that's just a quick
thing i wanted to insert there um other than that on the markets the
biggest news is tesla earnings call after which tesla lost over 82 billion
in market cap or 12 percent of the company's value in a single day
it was the biggest single day loss since 2020
many wall street analysts call the earning call
a disaster even though it was a breaking quarter
meaning the company still grew just at a slower pace than before
as well as no guidance for the near-term future
sparked a lot of negativity in my opinion no guidance could be a
concern if there was debt or weak free cash flow
but with 29 billion pile of cash and robust free cash flow with efficient
opex it's an awful red herring for wall street to hang up on
three new ai data centers were announced to be built across the country
expanding compute for training fsd and optimus ai
next generation vehicle platform which will be used for tesla robotaxi will
start production next year tesla also aims to start production of
optimus next year which was a surprise announcement 4680 battery is ongoing
well ahead of the ramp cyber trucks should have
running rate of 200 yeah in 2018 when i bought my first
stock in tesla corporation my money manager did not like
like that idea at all it almost went bankrupt after i bought
right so he was right to be worried about tesla
but his one of his questions was uh in 1999
amazon was 112 dollars and in 2001 it went down to six while everything else
was going bankrupt did you sell was his question to me
are you really a long-term investor in corporations
or are you playing short-term games i'm staying with tesla if it goes down to
yeah the fundamentals haven't changed it's still executing extremely well it's
just the only automaker that can innovate i had a front-row seat on that
shit i talked to mercedes benzar indeed engineers in sunny bill corporation
among many others they are clueless about how to innovate
they cannot innovate the way tesla does or the chinese new company is
yeah like it seems like the wall street is focused on the hardware margins
uh and completely overlooks the the margins will actually come from
software uh which is why if you do your homework
about tesla corporation and really understand the company
you'll be like me it'll be a long-termer and all this shit doesn't
matter oh i am yeah cuddle right
because the profit margin is about to go up because the
fsd is about to go crazy good in the next year
it version 12 omar has been showing videos it's insane
you know you give it another year it's going to be
insane squared that starts selling uh software to the car owners
most of which have not bought fsd yet they don't understand why they need it
they don't like it it hasn't gotten good enough yet
wait until it gets good enough then they're gonna buy it
then the profit margins on older vehicles is going to go up
wall street does not understand this at all
so you do your homework on a company you understand where it's going you
understand what its benefits are what its advantages are what things it has
that other companies don't have and you go from there
it's like steve joebs said that uh customer may not
particularly know what they want uh before introducing an iphone so
yeah you kind of how many people are asking for a humanoid robot
right a few are they're probably i want one
i want one too but very few normal people do
they don't know why they want one and they don't know what it costs they don't
know when it's coming they don't care but robert i see when i think about the
future of like tech i think about how it can make
my life a little more convenient and i and you know it's ridiculous but
you know i grew up watching things like the jetzins everybody wanted a rosie
that prepared your meals and greeted you with the door
you know what when you weren't gonna put an alexa in your house i mean
an optimist coming in your house is gonna make a 3d map of everything in
your house and gonna know that you use tied soap and you use
heinz ketchup well great as long as it goes to the grocery store for me robert i
don't care but when my convenience always gets you to give up your
privacy every time and you know what your i will
agree with you on that you know but i i i there is always a dark side and i
don't think that that dark side is often explored enough
and i think that people that like myself that would love to use
technology for convenience sure um it's going to know my habits it's
going to know what i do it's going to know my conversations that
i think are private but i i see i already have rewind listening to you
right now on my local device it's not talking to
anything in the cloud don't worry about us um for the record
robert fuck off um i hate you you're in a public room a
lot of people are recording these things including elon musk that's why i'm on
here because elon's learning my voice patterns by
say hey you know what maybe i just affected the
entire algorithm and now all your ai devices will turn
against you you don't know i just did it right bro
first rule of x is you got to keep the ais happy because if they're not happy
they don't distribute you right the first day the first one that
reads all your posts is an ai and it decides whether you're going to
get shown to me right on my tweet x pro are you not seeing
all my doggy pictures because if not you're really missing out
i i mute all doggy pictures so i don't see very many doggy pictures but
actually on um on uh tweet deck or on x pro i see
everything we do not support cat people in this space
oh really i'm i have no i have no skin in either
in either camp i don't have a dog or a cat i had a dog
i had a cat i had a chicken i had a bunny rabbit so
you know i was in the four age club so you know
you were happier then it was a simpler time
um i don't know you know i mean i was listening to the radio
underneath my pillow on a cheap ass speaker i'd
far prefer this world than that world really because i didn't mind
yeah laying in my bed at 16 years old you got to come over my house and hear a
concert in my house it's fucking insane now listen i was totally fine
listening to george michael belt out his songs to me on my walkman
when i by the way the who sounds better right because they remastered they went
back to the analog masters of the who and re-digitized them and re-separated
all the instruments and they're laying them out in 3d space around me and it
sounds better than going to the concert in 1979
yeah but you don't get the experience you don't get the no i that's true
i didn't get the bag of weed from the seniors either i i had to wait in line
overnight to buy those tickets because they sold out in 18 minutes i
that was the taylor swift of the day ai can't give you those warm and
fuzzies that standing in 1978 at the who would give you especially getting
high from you know the guys standing next to you too it can get fairly close
though i mean hear hear me out i was at coachella
right oh god robert i i was going to a lot of concerts
i had photo passes uh and a company a little company
named doppler labs give me a pair of headphones 250 headphones they look
sort of like what airpod pros look like today
and they're augmented reality headphones they block
the analog from your ears they block the real world from your ears
and it's sort of like airpod pros do if you wear airpod pros and there's a
crying child right in front of you you can't hear the crying child it blocks
the real world from your ears right but and then it had a microphone and
a processor a computer and a speaker and it improved the
audio experience at coachella and i'm standing in front of the best audio
equipment in the world right well i think how did it do that it
got rid of crowd noise it could turn down the volume
if you're a little sound sensitive my friend my best friend is autistic he's
really bothered by loud music so he would love it to be able to turn
down the volume at something like that uh you could turn up the bass you
could turn up you can turn on all sorts of weird ass like i could put skrillex
into a church right because it could process the
sound we're fine well no i'm talking about just standing
on the field at coachella it you you on your phone you can control
the headphones to do all sorts of new things augmented
reality right and a 250 dollar pair of headphones
improved the two million dollars worth of audio equipment that was
that you're listening to it's the best music festival in the world
right yeah i'm burning man like technically better but the music
industry goes to coachella it's not technically better it is
better robert just i've been to a lot of music festivals i
know my music festivals i've been all over the world
to music festivals i've been to music festivals in tel Aviv
Dubai China i love music festivals and i went to coachella four times with
photo passes so i was in front of the front row
right in between the front row and the performers
awesome it's a cool place to be right next to the subwoofers they're
moving some air man they're when you're next to the like a grid
of 12 subwoofers that are big like bigger than your
refrigerator that's some air moving that sounds like
and the headphones makes that air movement sound better which is really
a fucker the thing is that i'm not telling you
if you take the headphones out the analog sounds better and then you put
the headphones back in and the headphones sound better
your mind likes likes it both ways you you like the real world
and you like the augmented world
i did that two times one night listening at coachella
putting these headphones why did my mind like the thing both ways
analog digital analog digital because you're weird
right no no you evolved because the digital is improved
right you can make digital sound better than reality
but it's not smooth analog is a smooth wave it's real like last
night i was i had a mariachi 11 piece mariachi band
playing all around me it was stunning right compared
my sonus is getting pretty close to that but it doesn't quite match that
um katherine did you want to flip to another topic really quickly
yeah i think uh wiggle also had a few more things that he was gonna
finish with so we'll go back to him and then we'll move on to
a different topic wiggle the floor is yours thank you so much for your
patience thanks katherine no i just uh yeah
that was a bit of uh i guess the elephant in the room
in terms of the tesla's earnings and the other news microsoft became most
valuable company in the world with a market cap of three trillion
dollars surpassing apple uh nvidia hit all-time high again
last week surpassing 1.5 trillion market cap
and in the tech news um current administration
is expected to award billions of dollars in subsidies
to top semiconductor companies including intel
um x platform is in the process of hiring 100 content moderators for its
new office in austin texas that will be focusing on fighting
child abuse content apple opens up app store to game streaming
services elan also hinted that grok 1.5 will come
out in february with improvements across the board
google's hugging face deal put semi supercomputer behind openai
sorry behind open source ai giving ai developers
hugging face access to its compute cluster and other google services like
vertex and microsoft teams had a major crash
outage which i personally was affected by
and but it just came back to normal so they resolved it finally
that's about it for me thank you so much for these and i think one thing
we want to do in the future maybe if unless we get some time today is if
people want to bring some of their own headlines of tech news that they want to
talk about that's something that we want to include
but one thing that i want to talk about and it is a tech
related headline as although also journalism related we're seeing a lot of
layoffs so we're seeing a lot of layoffs in the
tech world sales force was one of the latest um
once reddit was was recent as well they laid a bunch of people off and
many many companies are in the tech sector the other side of things and
people have been making fun of taylor lorenz's um
video that she made about you know how concerned she is about
the layoffs in journalism and meanwhile some people are cheering for
that so um you know depends on your
perspective i guess but i thought that would be an
interesting topic for us to discuss you know a why are there so many
layoffs in these areas and how is that going is that all
you know ai adjacent or are there other um
reasons for for this and in terms of you know how it's going to affect because
you're going to have less humans to interface with
and in journalism it is a particularly concerning
um you know obviously in my journal so there is a bias there but i am trying
to look at it pretty objectively um you know because we've seen with
ai generated content which a lot of platforms are currently
playing with stories can get you know just like people but
the kinds of content that ai generated um articles can get wrong is is is really
kind of ridiculous and some companies i know have pulled away from it
using it and have been relying on journalists i think it's a great tool to
incorporate into your newsroom but in general we're just seeing
um quite a consolidation of journalistic entities
you know companies going to business hiring less journalists and what that means
is for the journalists who do stay behind
you know they're now responsible for producing a lot more content which
means they have a lot less time to work on these articles so
really good quality coverage is going to absolutely suffer
if you know and and as if there wasn't an issue
enough already so yeah i'd like to open that up
what are your thoughts sarah
um would you be terribly upset if i kind of half listened to you while i was
um arguing with my room back and
of course you would go to somebody else because
like i said all of my technology is turning on me and i don't know who to
contact at microsoft or whatever no you just call a little scammer in
india they'll they'll search you right right out or
you know what sarah try your own advice turn it off
then turn it back on and i don't know how to turn off my room
okay okay okay so all right fair enough so you see this
just goes to show you you know if we can't rely on sarah to be even able to
work for room by what hope do any of us have
with more advance well i i can say that i brought a very
intellectual woman up on stage who was probably listening to you
um her name is stephanie and stephanie i would love for you
to intelligently reply to katherine as though
they are my words and not yours i like that uh you know
okay sir i will do i will do my best no um thank you for having me and
cat i think this is um i think this is a really interesting
um question and i think i think that
let me just back up for a minute i started following
robert scoble i'm gonna bring this whole circle and i'm actually gonna do
this really quickly because i heard him in a space one time
and thought this is my kind of weirdo he sounded like
he had a phenomenal background in technology and really understood it
i think that we're in a time right now where as human beings we're going to have
to get really really disciplined and let me see if i can explain that we are
part of what i'm excited about ai and part of what excites me about fsd beta
is that human beings get in more accidents because they're screaming at
their kids they're putting on makeup they're downing a
you know mcdonald's coffee whatever's happening and i can't wait for
machines to go we got this we're looking at you you just described my day
yesterday stephanie it's like and you're here to live another day and
we're happy to have you but i think that this is a period of
time where things are just going to get really weird
we weren't doing well with discerning reality discerning facts discerning
local news local government local anything
is so much easier because there is a direct accountability
if you see a reporter that is standing in front of a building fire
five miles away from you and it's a local reporter who's saying there's a fire
behind me you can drive by and go oh my god i saw that fire
and so there's that validation of that story was true
the farther away we get from local news and the more we get into the digital
world where there where there is a lack of accountability and there's not
an ability to say i really don't know if that happened i mean we're going
back and saying i don't really know if we landed on the moon i don't really know
if the alarm musk is throwing rocket rockets into the sky because i wasn't
there to see it like we are going to have to buckle up
and again in my opinion get real disciplined about stopping y'all we
fight i listen to some of the fights in these spaces and respectfully
there is an entire world being built right now
under us around us and above us that is going to directly impact
how we think how we move through the world how we perceive information and we
are arguing about some really stupid stuff that's like was cool 200-300 years
ago that actually doesn't matter i watch parents
in grocery stores telling kids you can't do that on your ipad and the kid is
smiling because they're like you put a password on your username i've already
created a username with a different password
i'm on pinterest i'm on tiktok i'm out here playing and these parents have no
idea and these parents are probably the same ones that are sitting here
on spaces arguing about really dumb things when parents should actually
today start getting really wise about technology
and how to how to understand news how to do digital democracy
how to understand if this citizen journalist knows what the hell they're
talking about and do they know how to find experts to validate information
guys this is going to be up to us to get smarter and more disciplined less
emotional like i don't know who robert voted for it i don't care
robert scoville is somebody i follow passionately and i subscribe to him
because he knows what the hell is going on and how do i know that
robert has worked in it he's worked around it
he has the ability to predict because he has a level of expertise that i can't
find i know there's other people that have it
but i don't care what robert thinks about this or what i care about
is i learned from him and so again less emotion
more discipline about what is happening in the future do i love everything elon's
doing on x no do i think he's brilliant and am i so
happy to be in rarified air to be alive at the same time he is
because i think he's going to do some stuff with electric vehicles and fsd and
shooting rockets in the sky hell yes so see we have to get better at i
don't agree with what you're doing here but do you're amazing over here and
whatever that is like we have to get more disciplined and less emotional
now we can't afford to be this way anymore less human more robot i land i
wow those were all my words every time we go to
thanks every time you're smart every time we go through paradigm shifts
people resist i started studying this 40 years ago
every time a hundred percent people in school told me the the mackintosh is a
toy is for babies unix programmers told me
that smart people they're all using mackintosh
it humans resist and get emotional that's what we are we are emotional
beings and if we get triggered we can't control that
very easily most of us can't unless you've done like
10 days of meditation on a this pass now resort
robert has a choice though but it's a choice and here's what i mean by that
when i see people get offended about the list is getting longer and longer
every day you have to reach a point in life at
least i would suggest it that you reach a point where you say i could
be offended i can actually choose not to get offended
what i can choose to do is be disciplined and what i can choose to do
is not participate with things that are bothering me but get really smart and
disciplined about what matters and how i can be a contributor in today's
world things are changing so dramatically and robert you're
right people do resist change i would argue you can't afford to resist it
now or you are going to be left in the dust
the facebook newsfeed and i that's right that's right that's right
so i'm just saying this is a really good time to actually focus on being a grown
up and focus on intellectual discipline and focus on learning whether you like
someone or you don't like someone or who they voted for
we can't afford to do this anymore so i would argue that just stop
and get smarter it's the time is right now and i encourage everybody to
do it you're going to be a better contributor to the world
you're going to actually be a contributor to a super disruptive
things if we got along politically and we were rational
we would have a discussion about what do you do with a million truck drivers
that's right robert right that's right that's exactly how you're going to
retrain them how are you going to get them back into the
economy because if they're going to not be in the economy
they're going to cause problems look at how far we're blocking
paris and stuff right that's right so i want to go back to
something that you said stephanie and and and two things actually that you said
one would be um i just want to ask sarah if she
concurs since you were speaking on her behalf
that uh she'd like us to be more robot less less human more robot um sarah do
you concur no way okay i don't want to be more robot
less i think that there's some clarification with that there stephanie
because you have me um and my rumba tilt our heads going what
what could what do you mean more human or less human more robot what
why what i imagine more rational uh than emotional but i think emotion as as much
as it can be a problem you know and i generally
like to let's look beyond those emotions let's
figure out why we were having them um emotions are also signs for humans and
signals and they're also you know what contributes to the creation of art but
i won't put words in stephanie's mouth and i'll go to her
thanks so yes cab you're right and what i mean by that is that we we
know that there are a multitude of bliss of disciplines for example i know
stoicism is something that's practiced by a lot of people
meditation buddhism but a lot of this has to do
with learning how to get quieter it's not about not having emotions that's what
makes us human it's about the discipline we associate
with those emotions and then how they're expressed and if we and if we take
action on emotions what does that look like
for example i think we tend to do better and historically we know in
society that you can have a feeling about something we do have feelings and
to your point that's the birthplace of art and
creativity elon has a lot of feelings about tesla he has a lot of feelings
about spacex and a lot of the why behind those stories as to why he's
innovating not only towards what he wants to do but
at the rate and scale he wants to do it
that is emotional it is how it is what we do
with those emotions and so what i'm hoping is that we start to understand
that there is a place to make this world better
through also discipline relative to emotional intelligence and learning how
to be emotional beings but what we do with that emotion
if and when we act on that emotion that's what i
hope that we can get a little better at because if we are
coexisting in a world with robots with ai etc that is not
emotional i think it would be really wise for
us to get more disciplined about how we act with our emotions
because we're going to be coexisting with these things
if that makes sense yeah and i mean essentially maturity
is a way of you know once you reach maturity
it's not about suppressing every emotion that you have but figuring out how to
channel it and how sometimes certain emotions you
know might not serve us very well we might want to think past them and
figure out okay why are we feeling it feeling that way and sort of dissect
it um so i think that was a worthwhile
clarification and i think the other part that i wanted to discuss with you
is um you mentioned journalism in terms of you know
trust and this is something that we're really we're in an
all-time trust low trust in in media and and institutions in general and there's
been polling done to to you know it's really
statistically is correct um and the problem with that is we see
people sort of reacting almost having this
knee-jerk reaction where everything they they see they don't
believe well that's not that's not going to serve our society very
well either and one thing that you mentioned i wanted to pick up on
is the client two things actually one you said
we have to figure out how to evaluate information
and i think i'd love to sort of focus on okay how do we
how do we create tools systems how do we educate people so that
they are able to discern better and and perhaps even AI tools i think can
play a role in this and to community journalism and i think
community papers which are often the the most underfunded
are actually often the most worthwhile the least political as well because
really they serve the community they're not really focused on like
national politics and these are the people who go to the
board meetings and the town halls and and they
have that deep connection with their community that they're serving
so those are really key and they those are the ones that are on the ground and
give us a much more um a thorough perspective what's
going on and much more trust so i think one way to focus on this
idea is okay how do we a how do we build trust with these media
organizations and how do we know who to trust
yeah this is one of my favorite subjects so i was in politics for 25 years
um i have been interviewed um i'm a former commentator on national
news guest commentator and i want to give you an
example of something that i want to answer your question
so i was asked to join a panel conversation
as a republican consultant to give a perspective
in 2017 if trump's presidency was adding to a rise in violence
and what they wanted to do was cast me as a character right so that i would come
on and say absolutely he is totally responsible again it's 2017
absolutely uh no sorry it's the opposite they wanted me to come on and say he
has nothing to do with it blah blah but there was a role that i wanted to play
and they got frustrated with me because what i actually talked about was the
state of affairs in the country and what i talked about is the fact that
we have more and more americans that are having to make decisions
between feeding their kids and making sure one of their kids who has asthma
can actually get that asthma medication so i went into a place that to me felt
true and so they were bummed because they
didn't get what they wanted out of me but it's going to be a similar answer
cat to what you're asking me right now
which is part of what we need in my this is just my opinion doesn't make me
right this is just my opinion my opinion is is that while we see more
and more people that have done everything quote-unquote
right whatever that is who now are one they have a family of
let's say family four they're renting a house so they're
renting an apartment and these are people who are one
car problem away from not being able to make a rent or mortgage payment
they are one health emergency away from losing their car
or their house that happens all the time now
and so we have these new population of people we're calling five minutes away
from and so when people generally are not okay
and they can't figure out a way to make ends meet and we have too many people
in that situation you are going to be more susceptible to
things like what we're talking about which is in certain news organizations
where you know that they're just there's there's too much opinion
and not enough facts and people are starting to get disgusted
but i think we have more and more people that are trying to make sense of
a world that they don't trust institutionally
it's health care it's journalism it's education
it's all of our verticals and when you aren't okay
and you don't find a way to get okay it's very difficult to take anything
seriously because you're desperately trying to figure out a way out
of not being okay and my background in politics leads me to sort of these
conclusions because we just know historically
it doesn't work when we see wealthy are getting wealthier and poor getting poorer
and the middle class and i i know these are i'm using a term and i'm
sorry if that term sounds lazy but people who otherwise had a way to figure
out how to make ends meet are no longer lack of trust becomes an
issue lack of trust in institutions becomes an issue
right well disney advertised on this so of course they're lying about this
it's easier to to make sense of that than it is to make sense of a world
where we just it's time for us to rebuild institutions that are no longer
serving us i'm sorry that was super verbose cat i was trying to kind of
answer your question i hope well well um let me ask you stephanie because
we are told um on a daily basis on this app you can
scroll through your your timeline and read post after post after post
about which news organizations tell the truth
and which lie and i put them all in one column
on both sides i have all the world's news
organizations in one list and it's a column i'm looking at right now
so they all know what truth they all lie start out with
the assumption like the israeli security company told me
they assume somebody is already broken into your how into your business and
it's stealing shit off your servers assuming that what stephanie was what
stephanie was talking about is a and capron was a lack of trust we
already we don't trust anybody you just said
you think they all lie well so in a in a world
full of liars how do you find the truth pillars
um and and i think like what stephanie said
we tend to trust what we can see with our own eyes if i look on my local news
and they say there's a fire two blocks down
my street boy i can drive by and i can see it
but if i am hearing that hold on hold on i took pictures of an
international news story and i had no idea i did that at
the time i took the pictures i took pictures of john edwards and
real hunter having a an affair in a private jet
i had no idea what was really going on whoa
right in front of me by the way it wasn't just happening in front of me
dan baltz from the washington post who covered presidential politics for 30
years was sitting right next to me he had no clue
and the chief of staff i'm still friends with the guy who invited me on the
plane he had no clue how did you not know when the truth is
right in front of your eyes so well i didn't they weren't doing they
weren't doing the affair in front of us i just took a picture of them sitting
next to each other that didn't look like anything was untoward there
nobody you know how would we know if we saw that picture
that it is real right that's and we have to somehow make sense of the world
that we cannot and we cannot only rely on our own eyes and also our own eyes now
deceive us because you can create a lot of false things and
that's going to be a huge thing especially during the elections i see
that just escalating more and more so how do we
like what do we do in order to evaluate yes right now you guys when i came in you
were talking about you know there's telltale signs uh with
ai like the fingers that's going to be that robert is correct that's not going
to be an issue pretty why couldn't i go through my list of world news and keep
track of the accuracy of each of those organizations how would
accuracy on a topic because like the new york times will be accurate on one
topic but inaccurate on another topic right you got
they kind of cross what's a good idea and they i could do that and we're starting
to get the tools we're with the llms that just came out
out a year ago right we now have new technology that we can put
on a list that's what i'm hoping grok is going to do soon
right to give us the ability to look at a list in a new way
and say hey can you show me hey grok can you show me the accuracy rating of
everybody here can you show me the popularity
can you show me popularity by tribe right who's popular with the
republican people and who's popular with the with the woke people
liberals me right so yeah i think accurate i think
we can have a new information system that ai can keep track of us
with in a new way that's what i think that ai can also be
implemented on social media platforms where it you know there's factually i
know everyone is very protective of the idea of what is the truth
but there are certain things that are factually accurate or not
right and i think this is where ai could verify again
i don't believe in censoring anybody i do believe in providing greater context
when posts show up that's why i do you know as imperfect as community notes
might be it's still a pretty good tool for giving you additional context and
you can you can look at that note and be like yeah
that's stupid i don't like that source or whatever but
you're being provided with additional information and so in that way i think ai
could be used to you know fact check essentially but
fact check factual information you know like
you know it rained in december of o2 you know in the city like that is
something that is verifiable and i think that's where you know you
you have that opportunity or hey this image was actually taken in
you know syria and not in this other place i think those are really valuable
ways of implementing it but we'll go to stephanie and then we'll go to phoenix
you have your hands up so i'd love to hear from you stephanie
thanks cat i'll be really just one quick second
i'm so sorry stephanie but you know we'll do the this round of hands and
then i think we'll have final thoughts and close up be
good with that adrian and katherine absolutely and adrian is some more in
a black hole of engineers so i'll speak on his behalf
go ahead part of what i was going to say about the truth
is that you know the reason that social media companies
meta twitter acts all these companies are so successful certainly tiktok is
probably elon spoken on tiktok in terms of he
actually i think he said he downloaded it
and then he had to delete it from his phone because it was so addictive right
because it's pure ai as long we are now in a 24-hour news
cycle where we are now associating dopamine
and chemical hits from our brain into what we're attracted to
whether it's a 30-second video a news story
and oftentimes facts are boring and they're not going to kick off cortisol or
dopamine in your body oftentimes good research good data
reporting is super boring it's way more fun to look at a car
accident we still to this day traffic slows
down to a dead stop on freeways when there's a massive accident
our brains we are run by our brains and so as long as we are now consumers
that have a direct correlation between truth
and dopamine i feel this way and i take action
and whether that action is i believe that whether that action is that's a lie
because there's certain trigger words that we use now in politics in other
places so if we can start to approach seeking truth based on less
dopamine and less chemical reaction and more
facts sometimes are just really boring so it's kind of a reset for us
and so i think in a world of digital i'd love and again this could be i think a
conversation i'd love to have with robert one day on just
how our brains are kind of getting rewired in certain sectors that we just
didn't use to associate before reading a long book can be something
that's fascinating and we get smarter but are we getting i'm completely
different because of ai today and it by the way almost killed me last night
so i was i watch it but i drive very differently when ai is driving
boom fascinating i'm using different parts of my brain right
perfectly said so cat i think when i think about kind of how are we going to
move forward and how do we figure out facts etc i think this goes back to i'd
like us to stop arguing about some of the stuff we're arguing about now and
get way more familiar with our brain how what how our brain functions
and how our brain is now associating things as we digest
i think i lost you sorry my phone rang yeah my phone rang i apologize anyway that
was kind of the answer and again hope it made sense i'll land
yeah no absolutely and and i think our brains has
has been rewired quite a bit just based on the fact that we use all these
devices i used to have a very different attention
span and and capacity for boredom though i never
considered myself bored and and i think some of this stuff has
changed it but i think it's very important for us
to be able to have the ability to you know to sit in silence sometimes and to
read a book and to focus on something that's a lot more in depth for certain
periods because i think it's really good for our brain so i think this is
something we need to be considering as well
and then i think we do need to be teaching people how to
evaluate sources of information or particular stories more importantly
and what robert suggested with the ai i think that's a great tool and actually
somebody sent me a dm saying that they you know kind of did a
search where they um rated this so it's even
potentially possible now but i don't know how robust yet
but i think this is where i like using technology to solve our problems and to
make things better better experiences and i think there's a lot of room for
that but with that i'll go to phoenix phoenix uh what are your thoughts
thank you thank you so i'm kind of happy that that stephanie's
had made that point about being drawn to things like that see i'm
the opposite i don't get drawn in to that kind of stuff
and in fact i find data to be more compelling so i do a lot of research on
my own um and i started kind of approaching it
from a global standpoint as well so a geopolitical kind of standpoint where
you're paying attention to what's going on
on the other side of the world where you know you kind of take a look at
how they run their things and so i did a lot of research to correlate that so
when robert was talking about um you know it being able to kind of
streamline the process what that would do is you could it takes so much
information from around the world and you would have like right now we have
all these different search engines we can take and and
dive into one topic and get the perspective of
like five different um models based ai models basically
and then you can kind of find a center so that's the way i have researched so
you can do it already now because i've been doing it for years
and it would go a long way to getting you on a same page
to further that when when media mainstream media is picking on one
person in particular um like every news cycle they're beating
up on a certain person that to me is an identifying factor that
that's the person i need to delve into and look
because why are they talking about this one person it doesn't make any
sense and when when i did that with elon musk for
example what i found was that there it was completely unfounded
but you know it takes someone actually running down
and and doing the research and the ordinary
everyday person isn't necessarily taking the time energy and effort to
put into that um so having those ais would lend to
giving us an opportunity to um streamline the process and get to
answers maybe a little bit faster but i i encourage people to
not just look at the united states but kind of zoom out and look what's going on
globally you have to take into consideration all the different wars
that are happening you have to like there's a lot of information out there
and we're on a global platform where we have access to people who are actually
living in those areas people that can bring us
sound information from a citizen journalist standpoint that
doesn't have anything to to gain or lose necessarily as an individual
whereas people who are working for like these big media companies
they obviously have a narrative that they are trying to stick with and it's
it's beyond obvious at this point like it was
kind of obvious before but it was like oh well i'll just go to see it
see it then instead of fox and i'll listen to that for a little while
but now it's just gotten so so frustrating
that we're going in circles with information and there's no
no solution based ideas coming out because
really like stephanie said the solution is to revamp
we have to redo and that's a lot of work and nobody wants to do it
it's just they want to talk about it yeah and i think
in terms of narratives you know it's not so much in my perspective and my
experience in journalism it's not so much that there is like a narrative hey
you have to stick to this it's just that
it's a bit of a self-selecting group so if you go work for a particular
publication there's generally an ideological
capture that goes on there you probably join the team in the first
place because you have a particular perspective
and then over time that culture builds where you can't really dissent very easily
so you end up sort of you know complying and
becoming more like everybody else and so you push the same narratives and i
think in terms of you know your example of an individual
that's being targeted in the media or or just a particular story
it's true that people don't look further and often when you do look
further you do find the the reality of the
situation and that is something that AI can
absolutely help with by even just providing hey this is what different
publications say there's also some existing resources i
really wish i remember the name of one of them right now but there's a really
great newsletter that actually highlights it's not AI
generated maybe one day it will be but it highlights the different perspectives
from say sort of the conservative perspective and
the left perspective and and then the thoughts of the editor
and it's a really great way of doing it there's there's
there's a few websites as well that will give you some insight into
you know again if if a publication is particularly
biased so i think there's a lot of possibilities here in tools and i think
also starting early and educating children
i think this is a really big part of it i i had taught media literacy in high
school the resources for that are really really
terrible there's not a lot a lot is paid a lot is not free
and even the resources that i found they have
very strong biases they're not they're not great i had to pretty much create a
lot of it myself and it's actually something i plan to
work on eventually in creating us something more
buzz that teachers can just use but um i think we have one last yeah can i just
happen directly just one second phoenix um we have
we have adrian needing to cut the space um
he we're getting messages that he needs to cut so we're going to wrap really
quickly um join us next week same time same
day and um and we'll uh continue the discussion
we also have on january 30th um a space for
um katherine brodsky's new book no apologies so we'll hope to see you there
um go ahead and cut thanks adrian i hope you all have a great day