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x402 Roundtable: What does MPP mean for x402
Recorded: March 19, 2026 Duration: 1:18:33Space Recording
Full Transcription
Oh Thank you. Welcome, welcome, everybody.
How you doing?
Oh, I like it.
Micro jobs for humans and agents on X402.
Work.fund seems pretty cool.
I like it.
Oh, hey, branches in the house.
Nice, nice, nice. All right, anyone?
Nice.
Branch, are you speaking today?
Are you going to be coming up and joining me?
You want me to, I guess just raise your hand if you want to chat.
We'll let people trickle in for a second.
I'm about to post again. You guys know how it goes.
The start of the space, I don't know what happened to the...
I have no idea what happened to the music.
It just disappeared or it didn't start at all.
Let's post that there.
Nice.
Invite your friends.
Invite your friends.
This has been a hot topic, so we got to get more people in here.
So invite your friends.
If you've got a company account, have it join.
It can come speak.
It helps get everybody more visibility.
We are live.
What's up, Branch?
How are you doing?
Doing well. How are you? I'm doing doing a gm doing well how are you i'm doing well i'm doing well um i
as of uh quite literally like i mean not quite literally i guess it was a little bit ago a couple
hours ago i got this whole mpp thing working on scale and then i just got one with 3009 to work, so kind of hyped.
So, I don't know, feeling good, feeling good.
Nice, nice.
I'm still working on how I feel about the whole thing.
We're going to chat about that today.
We're going to chat about that today, because I know for a lot of people, it kind of feels tough, but I think there's a lot of upside to this whole thing.
But we will
see. Looks like we're about ready
to kick things off.
I don't know. I think my team
is ghosting me today. No scale
account. Where are they
at? I don't know.
They don't want to chat with me, I guess.
Very sad.
Cool.
Anyone else want to come up and speak before we kick things off?
If you do, just raise your hand.
Oh, hello, scale account.
I guess you can co-host.
Although you're a little late.
You're a little bit late.
Hey!
Okay, it's about time.
I was waiting, I was waiting, I was waiting.
I was waiting.
I lost track of time.
Too busy building over here.
I would just like to call out everybody
that that is Mr. Ben Miller speaking from the
Scale Account. And Ben is our head of marketing. And that just tells you everything you know about
the world today when his response is, sorry, I'm too busy heads down building. That's awesome.
I love it. I love it. All good. Let's kick things off here. As I mentioned, if you are in the crowd
and you want to speak today, just raise your hand. The only thing that I ask is be respectful
and be respectful to other people and us. But otherwise, you're welcome to speak your mind.
But otherwise, welcome to this week's X-402 Roundtable. Let's get right to it.
My name is...
Well, I guess I'll introduce myself this week
because technically I didn't feature anyone.
So I'll go first.
My name is Sawyer.
I run the Skills Developer Success Team
and an absolute tech nerd.
And I've been involved in this agentic commerce
and X402 and I guess now this MPP industry for the last, what, eight, nine,
seven months, something like that. Feels like a lifetime ago since I was focused on other things.
But here we are today. And I am joined by the Scale account who, Ben, if you want to join the
conversation today, feel free to because I know you are technically now a builder with a builder hat.
And right now, all we have is Branch up as a speaker.
But as I mentioned, if other people want to come up and speak, just raise your hand and request.
I want everyone to feel welcome and able to join.
Just be respectful.
Branch or Ben, either you guys want to introduce yourselves before we get into the conversation today.
Ben?
I will go. I will not be contributing too much. get into the conversation today. Ben?
I will go.
I will not be contributing too much.
You call me a builder.
Let's just say I am a vibe builder over here.
I'm Ben.
I lead the marketing team here at Scale.
Work very closely with Sawyer.
Work very closely with Branch.
Recognize a lot of people here in
the space as well. So just happy to sit on this scale account and learn from people who
know a lot more about development than I do.
I love it. Can we just call out that everyone's a vibe builder these days? If you're not vibing
in some way, shape, or form, you're not doing it, right? Just saying.
But anyways, Branch?
The GM, I'm Branch.
I'm the developer of Dexter.
And Dexter has been one of the X402 players for a while now
and been a close partner with Scale.
And we are just exploring the world of MPP as well,
as of today.
Got a cool new package out,
but I'm sure that'll come up later,
for making it a little bit easier for Solana and other stablecoin players rather than just
the fiat layers. I'm trying to make it easier for them because as you guys are aware, but maybe not
everybody is, they've kind of cut out the facilitator and
there's a trade-off there in that and there's a lot of trade-offs but uh but i'm branch and uh
i love the round table idea because this is uh this is a perfect format for the mpp discussion
you know a lot of back and forth yeah opinions heck yeah uh anyone knows, anyone that wants to come join the convo,
like I said, just invite them in.
Otherwise, I'll stop repeating myself and asking for,
you know, people to come speak because,
well, it may come off a little bit desperate.
I apologize.
It's just the way it goes these days.
But anyways, and yes, I make jokes constantly while I talk.
It's, sorry.
Anyways, let's get out of business. And let's
just call out the dark horse here, the elephant in the room. You know, MPD, Machine Payments
Protocol, dropped in the last 24 hours, give or take, from the Stripe and more specifically Tempo team, who is, I guess, incubated slash invested slash
owned by Stripe. I should probably clarify myself on the explicit relationship, but they're one of
the L1s that people have been waiting for for a while. And, you know, they've been very focused
on specific things regarding stable coins and enterprise money movement, but they kind of came out of nowhere
with the launch yesterday with the drop of the machine payments protocol, which to branches
kind of call out is functionally the first, I'll call it real contender toward competing with X402
head to head. I know there have been some other ones and I don't want to be disrespectful of the people that came before X402, but I'll argue that none of them have really,
I think, gotten a significant amount of usage to the point where they're probably worth us
spending a lot of time on. But this is obviously kind of in, again, just one big swing. Tempo
is able to bring, Tempo and Stripe were able to bring a dozen plus
top tier merchants, including OpenAI, Parallel, and some other really great AI tooling and inference,
some of the biggest in the world, to the pay-per-use market. They opened up some new ways
to transact and let agents pay with fiat. And one thing that I do love,
because I know Eric from Coinbase has talked about it a lot, is they did, you know, put this under
the, or they're proposing it's part of the, you know, Internet Foundation specs, the IEFT, which
I do not know enough about and probably butchered that as well. So if someone feel free to correct me, but overall I have a lot more thoughts on it, but that's kind of the background.
If anyone wants to jump in and just share any details they think I missed, feel free to. But
with that being said, I'll kind of start off with a little bit of a comparison
since I think that's something that's been on a lot of people's minds and it's been the most popular question so far.
And then we'll just kind of break them down.
Like I said, feel free to raise your hand or just interrupt me at any time.
This is very much so a roundtable discussion.
So just feel free to hop in and raise your hand.
So getting right down to it.
X402, right?
It's been around for what?
Just over a year now or give or take a year.
It's done what?
A couple, a hundred plus million in volume
or something like that.
200 million.
Pretty good numbers.
And it is defined as an internet native payments protocol
incubated by Coinbase.
And then they've got some affiliation with Cloudflare.
And Google's been a part of that as well.
And so far, I would say growth is looking really good.
We're seeing a lot of momentum in agented commerce.
I think a lot of that is very much so due to X402.
X402 has gone through two variations, version one and version two.
Version two came into the world, at this point, I want to say two and a half months ago, three
months ago, but it honestly might not have even been that long. AI world all blurs together.
And V2 kind of opened up a few different things. One, it made multi-chain and multi-token a lot easier. It also kind of stabilized the concept that X4.2 would be used for more than stable coins,
even though I don't think yet anyone really has, outside of maybe Cloudflare.
And lastly, it really standardized our ability to create new schemes and extensions, which we've
seen a lot of exciting stuff come out recently
in regards to the up to scheme from Coinbase,
which I believe is going to be coming,
I think in the next week or two,
and a whole bunch of extensions,
such as sign in with X for authentication.
What else?
You know, the bizarre extension,
the, I honestly don't even know how to pronounce this word,
which means I probably shouldn't be in tech,
but idempotency keys, which are basically like the one-off... Not a one-off. It's like a way
to prove that something's been used. And again, if someone knows how to properly pronounce that,
please do. I'm embarrassed. And a couple others. There's been some cool new extensions announced
recently. But basically, X402 has shined with stablecoins, right? It's been ushered in by Coinbase.
USDC has been the primary kind of, what, 99.9% of usage so far,
even though other things do work.
And I think, you know, Branch called this out.
One of the reasons why X402, I think, has become really popular with merchants
is you don't have to run
any crypto stuff yourself, right? You can delegate the on-chain interaction out to what we call a
facilitator. And so the client signs an authorization, which makes the payment gasless
for everybody. That then gets sent to the merchant. The merchant can forward that on optionally to a
facilitator,
which I would say, again, probably 99.9% of people I think are doing outside of the facilitators who are also merchants.
But in that case, they're still kind of boarding upstream.
And then, you know, the merchant or the facilitator handles settlement verification,
sends that back to the merchant, who then basically says,
all right, it's good.
I'm not going to fulfill this request.
And we've seen a lot of growth here with, you know, paper use items with, you know,
essentially paper shot inference from teams like Blockrun slash Claw Router.
Oh, hey, Kevin, if you want to come speak, please do.
Come speak, please do.
Let me know.
Let me know.
I'll invite you just in case.
I'll invite you just in case.
And we've seen a lot of really amazing teams come join X402,
especially from Kevin, who just joined us, and the CDP team.
You know, people like Browser Use, and I'm going to blank on so many now,
Firecrawl, and just, I don't know, a lot of really great teams.
So that's kind of
your introduction to X402. And then again, kind of coming back to, well, obviously, it feels like
it's a shock to a lot of people, but it kind of makes sense because, well, someone was probably
going to do it. This introduction to the machine payments protocol, which was dropped yesterday from Stripe and Tempo.
So now, what is the machine payments protocol? Again, this is only really done out for a day,
so I'll probably butcher a lot of this and potentially be incorrect, so please do fact
check. But on a very high level, it is an alternative way to do machine payments than X402. And they do this through a similar kind of protocol spec,
which the core MPP part is functionally open.
However, they then build on top of that more chain-specific
or payment rail-specific uses.
And so, for example,
a lot of the things people have been saying about,
hey, X402 can't do streaming, but MPP can.
And that's all done through Tempo's
custom block time thing.
That's a good example of that's a specific thing
to their Tempo charge payment.
But actually, we could do the same thing with X402. Check out the Superfluid team, super cool team. They've been able to do this for a
while. And the Corbett's team's actually, I believe, rolling out some similar stuff now,
if I'm not mistaken, with their new Flex scheme. But essentially, MPP is just another way to
explore machine payments. And I think the key part that a lot of us are, you know, kind of
trying to understand is, how does this compare? What are the key part that a lot of us are, you know, kind of trying to understand is how does this compare?
What are the key differences?
And definitely one of those is going to be the deep integration with, you know, Stripe.
Being able to potentially accept or not potentially be able to accept fiat and stablecoin payments in the same kind of setup is obviously very attractive to a lot of businesses.
But I do think it's important to call out that anything they do, we can definitely replicate with X402. I don't think there's anything that's
off the table. It's more just doesn't make sense to actually do it as their demand for it. But
so far, you know, today, I know everyone's kind of been playing with this and figuring out where
it fits in. I've been able to get, you to get a normal transfer and a 3009 transfer working on scale with MPP.
And it's, again, just another way to allow a machine
or an agent to functionally make a payment or a human.
But I would say where we're kind of at right now
is this exploration of what are the differences.
And I think, Branch, you brought up a great point.
We'd love to have you or anyone else jump in here
with additional thoughts.
But it feels like one of the design decisions so far with MPP has been to push reliance on Stripe.
Just because, to your point, there is not this kind of default middleman in the stack that handles the crypto side.
So at least from the stablecoin perspective,
you are essentially,
if you want to use MPP without Stripe,
the merchant has to either A, settle on chain themselves
or B, we're going to have to build something custom for that,
which is where I think the X402 facilitator model
is far more elegant out of the gate. But then, you know, I did play with straight machine payments last week,
and it was pretty nice. But I noticed Notorious from Pay.ai had posted about the settlement time,
and I would agree that it does seem to be a bit slower, not a bit, significantly slower so far.
You do not get to transact at the speed of blockchain because you are relying on this
settlement into your Stripe account. So again, trade-offs here. And we'll talk more about maybe
where one may make sense versus the other today. But then I also think, again, there's a very big
discussion we had about opening people's eyes to the capabilities of x4 or two because it is so extensible and that was kind of the point of it so we shouldn't get uh we shouldn't
freak out and say oh it can't do this stuff because it definitely can but i'll pause there
i just rambled everyone for like 15 minutes straight um please raise your hand with questions
thoughts concerns uh comments just raise your hand and jump in.
I think that was a phenomenal technical explanation.
And I think it all comes down to the approach, which there's no denying it.
It's a very well done implementation.
It's a very well done everything. So what it is, is a fiat first system.
And what X402 seems to me to be is a stablecoin-first system. And yes, both can do the other, but it's what's first. You said that
it's pushing reliance on Stripe, and I think that that's very clear to me. It's pushing traffic
towards Stripe. It's pushing traffic towards Tempo.
Ultimately, by 2030, they're not going to be promoting,
oh, here's how to put MPP on Solana,
and here's how to put MPP on base.
It's very unlikely to me,
because everything is either going towards Tempo or Stripe.
And of course, if you're going to do it on Stripe,
using Fiat, then you're going to be forced to pay
that 1.5% fee, I believe, with the cent minimums. And also it's only available to citizens of the
48 states, excluding Texas and New York, I think. Now, I think if you're going on chain, then maybe
it doesn't apply to you. I'm still looking into all the fine print. And one thing I do want to
get some clarity on is, is it true what I read that there's a one penny minimum?
Because if so, that could be problematic.
But that being said, it's a well-done piece of tech.
So it's a fundamental battle between fiat first
or stablecoin first, in my opinion.
Yeah, no, good call-outs there.
And like I said, feel free if Kevin or I saw Ben just jumped in
and there's some others, if you guys want to speak,
just raise your hand or interrupt me.
But I haven't seen about the penny requirement thing yet.
My guess is if that is in there, it's probably for now
at least relevant to Stripe, I would think,
because if they are handling the settlement on chain, they probably don't
want to get gouged in most cases would be kind of my guess.
And we do know there are limitations there currently around transaction by transaction
settlement.
And I know there's a lot of teams exploring batching and simplification of either up to
of either up to or deferred and things like that.
or deferred and things like that.
I don't know if I agree that MPP is built for fiat yet.
I think, I don't think it's an unfair statement.
I think where I kind of look at it is,
it feels like it was built so far,
which obviously makes sense because I mean,
again,
Tempo is functionally like
very deeply related to Stripe.
It feels like it's designed
for a vertical, right?
Kind of like a vertical ownership structure
where they just have the ability
to influence, right?
And prioritize their products,
which again is like
not necessarily a bad thing.
That's just kind of,
it comes with trying to own everything,
having everything from the L1
to where you settle out into fiat.
So I don't think your statement's unfair.
I think the part that maybe got a little bit confusing
when this protocol dropped is because it came from
tempo and they kind of prioritized this fiat and crypto placement and obviously the settle
into Stripe account. I think some of the other extensions got a little bit overlooked.
There is already, from what I can see
and what people have been posting
in my kind of initial research into their docs,
there is two core protocol extensions
for Bitcoin Lightning Network
and something with Visa,
like dynamic Visa credit card
or debit card stable payments.
I haven't fully been able to wrap my head around that one yet.
But it seems like MPP at the core is aiming to be a bit more agnostic.
I think the biggest question will be, how does the, I guess like, how does the,
how to phrase this,
how do they prioritize working with the community
and seeing it be more of this kind of, again, open protocol?
I think this is where the CDP and Coinbase team
did such an incredible job during the creation of X402
is they were out in public, they posted the spec, they talked to people, they're getting builders and feedback.
And it took a little bit longer, yes, but it allowed, it really allowed so many people
to contribute.
And it became something that I feel like we all kind of have, you know, helped grow.
Whereas this kind of just came, you know came out of right field. And so it's unclear, I think, right now
whether there will be a lot of room for elaboration
or whether it's more just going to be people
creating plugins to be compatible with MPP.
But all of the kind of deep exploration stays with X4 or 2
just because of the flexibility of that in the corporate call on the team.
But I'll pause there again if there's any other thoughts to tack on.
I feel like it's worth noting, and I'm trying to word this without sounding bitter,
because I'm not anymore.
But I want to work with everybody.
And I think that Notorious and I both found it curious
that we did not receive invites,
despite requesting them to the Tempo Hackathon.
And I think that I found that a little bit strange.
And then also the fact that the marketing is,
it feels very, very coordinated in a way to put X402 down
in a way that isn't really accurate or true.
And then in a way to lift themselves up.
So I watched the TV PM stuff yesterday.
I'm not trying to get too mean, because it's a great piece of tech.
But the marketing, I think that's maybe all feeding into the bad taste in people's mouth
when what some would call a corpo chain comes in and tries to take over an open standard.
It's a bad taste, but it does some things pretty well.
Fair enough.
Kevin,
I see you're dropping in and out. I feel like you probably
want to speak. Maybe you're just having some
classic Twitter space issues.
So if you do want to
chat, feel free to just cut me off at any time.
I definitely get that. I think
like,
again, I think it's one of those things
where it kind of feels like we were going,
like everyone was kind of pulling on the same rope, right?
And I think the hard part for maybe a lot of people
is it kind of feels like now there's, you know,
maybe competing like where do I prioritize my time?
Which direction do I go? Things like that. But I personally think that overall, it will probably
be a net positive for X402. And that's for two reasons. Actually, before I say those,
I see Kevin is a speaker now. Kevin, you want to jump in before maybe Twitter bugs out again?
or not kevin you want to jump in before maybe twitter bugs out again
hey guys can you hear me yes sir hey how's it going hey wanted just to jump in quickly here
i've been listening in and walking through the streets of san francisco i want to say great job
you know i pretty much agree with your analysis i think broadly it's going it's it's a great thing
to see more people building in the agentic payment space it's going to validate our sector and it's a great thing to see more people building in the agentic payment space. It's going to validate
our sector and it's going to bring more and more interest across all different types of institutions.
I really do think that, you know, X402 has unique properties from a protocol perspective that will,
you know, help us to drive success. In many ways, it's kind of reminiscent to me, you know,
I always like to make the Kubernetes analogy of like, you know, an open standard that kind of, you know, is driven through broad industry collaboration, adoption, and kind of reminiscent to me, I always like to make the Kubernetes analogy of like an open standard that kind of is driven
through broad industry collaboration, adoption,
and kind of openness.
And I think the analogy is like a Docker swarm,
like something that's more private.
If you want to go back to kind of the container analogy,
but broadly I think MPP is great for the space.
I think X402 is not going away anytime soon.
In fact, it gives us more reason to kind of put gas,
put the pedal down on the gas.
So it's going to be a fun couple of months
for everyone that's building the ecosystem.
And, you know, broadly, you know, I'm just pretty excited.
Thanks.
Heck yeah.
Yeah, thank you.
Appreciate you joining us on the move.
You kind of took exactly what I was going to say right in my mouth, but obviously saying it from
probably a better place just due to your affiliation with Coinbase. But I fully agree.
I think, you know, there's, when you're trying to do anything in the world, there's always,
you know, there's so many trade-offs we have to consider,
especially with how fast AI is moving
and how quickly the world is changing.
And one of the things that I'm sure everyone
listening to this at some point in their life
has probably had to deal with
is that question of, you know,
when you go to the boss and say,
hey, like we want to do more here.
We think this is where the world is going.
Like, let's go take that bet.
And the response that I think often happens, want to do more here. We think this is where the world is going. Let's go take that bet."
And the response that I think often happens, especially in tech is, hey, where's the proof?
Where's the interest? Is that actually going to play out the way you think it is? And obviously,
technology and the tech space and the startup world is always a group of bets, right? We're all taking a big bet together that the world is going to
go toward where we think it is. And we're essentially building that as we go.
And I think to your point, what's really exciting about MPP is it just validated all that time we
spent. So everyone that's kind of listening here and that's been building, whether it's for the last two weeks or the last two years, the last 20 years of AI, agentic commerce, anything like
that, this is just further validation that a company who prioritizes their, they are processing
a significant amount of the tech world's credit card payments and things like that and growing quickly.
They're now saying, hey, we need to make sure we get a slice of the agentic economy.
And so I think it's great validation.
And to Kevin's point, I think it actually tells me that not only am I thinking about things the right way, am I spending time in the right space,
it tells me I should probably be doing more.
Because just because there's one
doesn't mean it's going to stop there.
I'm sure we'll probably have additional companies
come out and attempt to put forward competing specs.
Although I do hope that more larger entities
will hop on to both X402 and potentially MPP.
I'm not against anyone.
I want the whole thing to succeed as a whole.
So I think the biggest thing is it's our job as a collective,
as a community to bring more businesses, more companies,
more resources to the agendian economy and help it grow.
And I do think this is great validation for that.
Now the flip side is all the builders out there,
obviously, we do have a little bit of a headache now.
And maybe this is a branch.
I'm sure this is kind of where the,
maybe the bad taste in your mouth came from.
Maybe not so much that a competing protocol has come up
because I don't think like,
I personally don't think it's that crazy that they've done
this. I think the part that maybe hurts a little bit more is all the growing pains we had to go
through to make X402, you know, work and scale and grow and succeed all the time we spent.
Well, now we kind of have to not just necessarily do it again, but we also have to figure out how to now fix the fracture in agentic experience, right? Like,
how is my agent going to choose? Which one are they going to prioritize? As a merchant,
do I now need to support two different protocols? Do I need multiple packages?
Are all the providers going to support both? How do the providers choose who to prioritize?
If I could make a payment via X402 and MPP for a dollar, why should I use one or the other?
Is there a world where, you know, because MPP doesn't have, you know, gasless settlement yet from the merchant side,
do we see an X402 facilitator actually work with MPP?
I think there's just so many like new questions that come up.
And I think maybe that's where,
not to put words in your mouth, Branch,
but maybe that's where a little bit of this bad taste comes from is,
it's kind of like, shit, we got to go do it again.
Which hell, that's half the fun in not just crypto, but startup land.
But curious if you have any thoughts there or anyone else does.
And welcome, Ash.
Oh, hey, Ash.
Jim.
I think there will be a facilitator that works with MPP,
and it'll be Dexter because we just announced that this morning.
But I'm not, I still am not just being candid with you,
settled on the grand direction of it all,
but yes, so now we have an MPP payments method
that lets any seller accept Solana USDC,
because I looked at the Solana MPP SDK,
and I gotta admit, I mean, like, these are things,
it's very good, but there are a lot of
things that are not there. You know, all the stuff with rent and ATAs and gas, these are things that
the average person who puts up endpoints is not going to ever want to deal with. They're just
simply not going to do it on Solana's side. So we wrapped all of that up and we'll just facilitate it like
a normal X4 to a transaction. But that being said, I can't really put my finger on what the
bad taste is. We're going to work with both in the meantime, because I think that there will
always be both. One is decentralized and one is not. So to me, I can't get past on Solana the fee paying
I mean if you without the fee payer
when you compare that dollar end point versus the other dollar
end point the one without the fee payer
is always going to be at a disadvantage
or the one without you know the sponsored fee payment
so I don't know
fair enough fair enough
I mean you know hey I'll call it out
I know you guys hate when I do this because I know
many of you come from the Solana ecosystem but hey there's a, you know, hey, I'll call it out. I know you guys hate when I do this because I know many of you come from the Solana ecosystem.
But hey, there's a reason, you know, we're not SVM.
Those trade-offs are tricky.
I think the Solana ecosystem has done wonders for blockchain growth as a whole.
And, you know, it's obviously always a pleasure working with so many teams building in both our ecosystems. But I do think this is probably a good example of where I do think, you know, Solana has,
you know, Solana kind of moved first on support there from blockchains outside of Bitcoin
Lightning Network.
But I have a feeling, like I said, most EVMs probably won't be far behind.
On our side, we've already got this.
Like I said, I've already got this working. It's really just a question of what's the demand and
why would someone use this instead? Right? Like if I'm not going to settle into a Stripe account,
is there actually a reason for me to use this over that? Especially if most of, my guess is
most of the SDK providers will probably just abstract this for us. Since I know you guys are
speaking about it, the Rel.ai guys were,
the Corbett's team is already hard at work on this.
So yeah, I don't really know where that'll go.
But one thing that I am very much so interested in
is kind of the,
I guess like the end-to-end vertical integration.
So I don't think we have any,
unfortunately, I kind of wish we did.
We don't have any financial teams in here,
like direct, they own the end-to-end financial stack.
Maybe Ash is the closest from a CDP perspective,
but I think, I don't really know
if this is a feasible thing for Coinbase
to do, but I am very curious to see if we'll have multiple tripe competitors attempt to
basically own this vertical end-to-end but build it on top of X402.
Because I do see that as a very big opportunity for people processing a lot of money to be
able to actually settle back into their fiat account, but take that payment in stablecoins
and have all that done, settled, abstracted across many blockchains.
I see a lot of value in that.
I think that's where, again, I think with the MPP, they did a pretty nice job.
It's very elegant going from stablecoin into a Stripe account.
But obviously, again, because it's pretty much tempo only from their tip 20 perspective,
the only real benefit you get outside of that is if you use Stripe's machine payment,
which is just basically a wallet they provide.
It's like a deposit address, essentially, kind of like an exchange.
So very curious to see if more financial institutions come into play there.
There's so many actively building across the crypto space.
But from a facilitator perspective, I think it makes sense that you guys and probably
many of the others will wind up supporting that on MPP.
Also curious if that winds up becoming part of their standard or not.
I feel like there's a potential it could.
But more interestingly, and maybe Ash, you've got some more, maybe you've got some thoughts here.
One of the things when the V2 spec was being written that I got super excited about,
and I'm actually surprised we haven't really seen any adoption of it yet, is non-stablecoin
payment options. I'm curious if, you know, anyone thinks that now that, you know, NPP's got a little
bit more prioritization there, do we see non-stablecoin payments
potentially start to have a little bit of a,
maybe a cushion to X402?
Especially because we have seen a growth,
a big growth in agentic cards
the last couple of weeks,
more so just raw Visa and stuff like that.
Nah, nothing.
That's all right.
It's okay, guys.
I forgive you.
All right.
Well, oh, there he is.
Hey, how's it going?
Sorry, I just tuned in right now. I was in a meeting. What did I
mention? No, no, you're good. Basically, yeah, let me give a quick 30-second recap. TLDR,
we intro to X402, we intro to MPP, although maybe not as long because again, it's been
out for like 24 hours and I'm still learning it as I go. We got a really good drop in from Kevin who just said, hey, this is great for Agenda Commerce as a whole.
Gives us more reason to put fuel on the fire for X402.
Ranch and I have been going back and forth on some of the developer experience,
some of the differences between NPP and X402 technically.
And now I've just kind of been rambling at everybody like I tend to do about
various different things around what do we see being prioritized? What changes are we going to
see? How does this impact agentic experience, developer experience, et cetera, et cetera, et
cetera. Basically, open roundtable about this, how we're not so much necessarily anymore how we're
feeling about it, but what do we now, what should we do to ensure that
not even that X402 quote-unquote wins,
because I don't think this is about winning,
but to see Agenta Commerce continue to grow?
This is more validation.
Where do we go from here?
I'd love to hear actually the takes.
Like, what do you guys think of it?
Where do you think the design differences are better so we can improve our stuff?
I mean, I'll give you my take.
I like the developer experience.
Like, it's like super clean website.
And I like that the docs were clean.
It was like easy going through everything. and it was very LLM friendly.
I really liked those qualities about it.
Um, let me think.
I wrote myself a TLDR of what makes it different.
So let me just pop that open.
Um, I mean, I could, I could be completely wrong. wrong i'm a product guy so i'm not a developer
just just to remind everyone of that but these are what i picked up that i thought like they're
it sums up the differences so the push and pull mode um we don't have the push mode um
so in on their system you probably talked about it.
The client can pay the gas fee.
I guess that's a design choice.
From their side, I would like to see the scenarios where that would make sense.
I mean, for the most part, it's like, okay, cool.
I don't know. I mean, for the most part, it's like, okay, cool.
I don't know.
I don't know.
It seems like it would make it more difficult. So I'm pro the server or the facilitator paying it.
And then their facilitator seems to be called the fee payer.
It's like the same concept, which is a different name to my understanding.
There is no separation between verify and settle.
So how we do it at X4T is like you verify the client's good for their money and then you settle it after the service is delivered.
This is like how we like how the standard should work.
I know a lot of people don't do that. They settle before delivering the service or product.
But the right way is to,
that's why we have two of them, right?
We have verify.
So you know they have the money
and then you settle after you deliver the service
so that if you fail to deliver the service,
you don't charge them.
I understand on their system is verify only
and there is no built-in
deposit dispute, but they're planning to roll it out gradually in the future.
I'm interested to see how that'll work out. There is no live registry for Bazaar, but they are using
open API spec, which I like. That's good. I think standards are good.
They are using a standard HTTP OS header,
which I prefer.
Again, standards are good.
I don't know why we have a custom one.
I wish we didn't.
They have this session thing
that first I thought is brilliant,
but turns out it's only for tempo now
and each service has to have their own escrow set up.
So it's SSE streaming that allows you, like, this is the part I really like.
You could top up meet streaming without closing the channel.
Session continues uninterrupted.
So, like, if you're using, like, an LLM or inference or whatever, you could like top up
and it happens through two on-chain calls where you open a session, by doing so you
deposit a certain amount of money and then you keep using it by like off-chain signatures.
They call it vouchers or something, I can't remember. Not sure how that works out. I didn't
dig deeper. And then you close it after you're done.
So you get reimbursed for what you didn't use.
First, I thought, oh, that sounds like up to, but it's not.
It's actually way better than up to.
Because with up to, if you have like a thousand calls,
you're still making a thousand on-chain transactions.
But with this streaming thing or session thing,
you only make two calls,
whether that's two on-chain transactions,
whether that's like 100 calls to the endpoint or just one.
But the catch is that the escrow is only for tempo right now
and each chain has to do their own escrow.
And it's like
kind of trust me bro system because i'm assuming the provider is making the escrow so that's i
think that's the part i didn't like um and uh oh the part i do like about it is that it would lower
latency and so here's what i like like, my learning from it.
I was like, hey, we had this community member who solved this problem with X402, like, maybe before there was a need for it.
Because, like, Optu and this session thing essentially address the same problem.
When you don't know how much something's going to cost,
how are you going to deal with that?
But when they scale up is when the streaming or the session thing,
it shows like how nicer it is.
So there was, I don't know if you guys saw it.
I think his name was Bo.
Let me find it.
Did you guys see that? It was basically an escrow solution for verified...
Okay, here, I found it.
They call it a semaphore, if I'm not butchering the pronunciation.
I'll send it to your DM.
You could pin it up to the space if you wanted to. But basically how they were doing it is that instead of,
like when a client makes the call, they will have them sign it,
but they're not going to settle it.
And they will have that signature in an escrow,
and then they could batch settle everything later.
I thought it was brilliant and super smart.
It's basically addressed this volume problem,
but it just never got picked up.
So anyway, those were my thoughts
and what I thought works,
what I thought we could do better.
I love it.
A lot of stuff to unpack there.
I think overall, I agree with you regarding the developer experience.
Getting a payment made took me, I want to say like two hours, maybe an hour on a scale chain,
both with a normal transfer and with 3009 with the gasless.
Compared to X402v2, I feel like the core SDK is just very,
it's very verbose.
So I think there's the trade-off
when you're building SDKs around
whether you want them to be
like very, very clear cut on what they are
versus you want to kind of have
more of your syntactic sugar
around making the developer experience easier.
And I will absolutely give credit where credit's due.
I think the WEVM team,
who is now, you know,
pseudo part of the Tempo team or is the Tempo team, I
don't know, they got a whole bunch of weird relationships there.
Those guys have some of the best Web3 SDKs in the space between VM, Aux, Incur, their
new CLI tool, and now MPPX and their other non-Typescript libraries.
So I will agree. I think the developer experience there is critical.
That's actually one of the things I started hacking on a couple weeks ago with my SDK
called Armory.
I was just experimenting how to basically make the X402 usage abstracted more.
And I do think they've done a really good job of that.
I also think their plugin system, personally, just has felt a lot easier. Creating a custom way to actually spend felt a lot simpler than
the scheme. So I think that's just something, again, I agree we can take back and say, right
now, building schemes seems to be taking us a significant amount of time. And we've now
seen half a dozen
teams plus create payment options within MPP in like 24 hours. And so, I don't know, maybe we're
just doing something wrong here. And ours is too over complex when it comes to XFOR2.
Regarding the facilitator stuff and their fee payer, yes and no. I think the one part that I disagree with you on there
is the fee payer is specifically built into the tempo charge concept.
So basically, their equivalent of schemes is they have,
I actually don't know what the proper term is,
but they have their payment options.
Tempo charge is the official one that uses the TIP20 token or token standard
and has the fee payer in it.
And so that is not abstracted out when you build for a different chain.
So like when the Solana team already shipped theirs.
I didn't know that at all. So it's not like this.
Well, you'll see that in the Solana version,
in the Solana version it explicitly says, you know, note.
The recipient could easily close their token account and request another payment,
and then you're out another 30 cents or 40 cents or whatever it is now.
So, you know, there's a huge gaping hole in it.
And I don't want to just say, oh, well, that's Solana and all the rest are separate,
because Solana is opening them with open arms, which I find strange.
Because the MPP SDK simply doesn't work out of the gate with Solana.
That's crazy.
Can you tell me more?
Because I'm like, whoa, I completely missed that part.
So how does the fee payer differentiate from a facilitator?
So they basically don't have one.
So by default, you called this out correctly.
By default, their SDK looks to be pushed first, right?
So basically the client pushes their own payment
as opposed to kind of more of the full model
from X402 where you're signing
and then the facilitator and or merchant directly
can pull that with the
transfer with authorization signature verification instead of an on-chain.
And so I'll post about this in a little bit. I've got a bunch of stuff on my computer. I just got
to throw up on Twitter and write a blog about. But I have the same implementation basically as
Solana minus I don't have all the fee account issues or the account rent issues.
But essentially, you can push a payment
in response to the 402 that they give
because all of their requesting and response
is basically like a provable transaction hash
to the recipient.
At least that's kind of what I've been able to
determine so far. Once you have the transaction made, or you provide the authorization to the
server and the server settles it, it's just a quick verification and you're done.
And so before you hopped in, I was saying how I feel like for non-tempo chains, they'll probably adopt something similar to the fee payer.
And it actually could be something where maybe all this work we've done, and when I say we, I mean the community.
I haven't really done anything on the facilitator.
I won't take credit there.
The community's done a great job figuring out how to actually scale a facilitator because what most
people don't realize is it's an absolute
pain trying to deal with nonce
management, priority
fees, gas fee spikes,
volatility, chains
going down, nonce issues.
It sucks.
At the end of the day, blockchains,
ironically, were not built to scale.
No pun intended.
Or maybe I guess a little pun intended.
But we've spent a lot of time, again, we as a community, to figure out how to fix it at
a facilitator level.
I'll be curious if that is an opportunity for us to mostly plug that into MPP or if
that's going to require kind of more of an overhaul.
But outside of that, I think the biggest takeaway so far, the biggest two,
two or three is definitely, A, I think their developer experience so far is better.
I also think they've probably had, just based on the amount of people, core team-wise working on it,
they've probably had more raw resources invested in it, even if for a shorter period of time, which isn't a bad thing.
It's just, you know, the way the world goes. First mover often is a lighter team just because
you're kind of trying to push it forward, but you need more validation, which brings me to the
second point. I think this is major validation. It shows that companies moving billions and
trillions of dollars want to get involved and get their slice
of the agentic economy. And three, I think there's definitely going to be some headaches for
developers trying to figure out what the heck to choose. But I think, again, it really does come
back to you have to make these decisions as a business. And so right now, if you are open AI, who just
came online with MPP, they accept payments via Stripe. Or at least I'm 99% sure they do because
they're involved in this. And so you're open AI, you're trying to, everyone knows, or at least
everyone thinks they're trying to go for an IPO at,
you know, a trillion plus dollars.
Compliance is critical, right?
You can't necessarily just start taking agentic payments from people, right?
You need to rely on stronger compliance frameworks.
And so, you know, the ability to embed that within the Stripe ecosystem seems to be a reason to maybe go
with them today.
But as I kind of mentioned right when you were joining, there's an opportunity for dozens
of companies moving a lot of money to do this with X402 and or MPP, right?
You don't have to just tie yourself to one.
It's really just all about giving businesses the best tools to choose how they want to
get paid.
And then on the outset or the other side, we at the same time have to ensure that we're
making this as easy as possible for an agent.
An agent already has so many decisions to make.
They have limited context windows.
Things are already costly, slow, and insecure.
This does require us to make more trade-off decisions.
And so I think as part of this, all the people who have been building wallets for Claws in
the past, you know,
two, three weeks, months, whatever it may be, I don't think this is a huge shift in regards to
making a stablecoin payment. But there is now the question of, well, if I get back a MPP payment
offer or an X402 offer, how do I choose? What do I choose? Why do I choose this versus the other?
Does it matter for the agent? I think these are all just things we're going to find out over time. But that's kind of my two to three key things here is I think very net positive. And I think there's a lot of work we have to do with X4 or two and developer experience because I think they've, I think MPP's shown X4 or two up on that front significantly out of the gate, but it doesn't mean that X4 or 2 is bad or gone.
It just shows where we can improve.
Yeah, we could totally also improve on bringing in more fiat providers
because the protocol supports it and there's a mock cache example.
We just don't have any providers.
So that's good that i came out with that already
as a first class citizen um but did did you come across any thing in the docs that that shows like
the ecosystem partners are providing that service themselves or is it a wrapper like is it inference wrapper like we have
or is it actually like entropic and open ai and those guys because everything was a sub domain
and many logos weren't the actual projects logo like foul or perplexity or um hyper browser like
they just had like a generic icon or something so i like, I don't think the brand would have ever approved that.
I don't know.
I noticed that as well.
Interesting.
I did not pay close enough attention to that detail.
So I will go double check and I will check
my words there and say I could be inaccurate
there.
I'm not saying there are...
I was just asking because I didn't see that part
of the doc.
No, no. It could be though.
That's definitely been a big thing so far
is wrapping all these people.
But I do think, you know, one of the...
I mean, at the end of the day,
I think, you know, looking at this more from a business perspective
and less from a tech perspective,
Stripe has an incredible opportunity
because the one thing, well, they
have a lot of things, but in this particular instance, the one thing they have that many
other people do not is the merchants. So many large companies, some of the biggest in the world
use Stripe as their PSP and now their merchant so, and at the end of the day, the other thing I will
say Stripe, this is the biggest compliment I could probably give is Stripe has some of the best tech
and developer experience in the history of technology. Their documentation, their tooling,
their experience is just top notch. And so, I, well, some of those providers may not be legitimate yet.
It's kind of no different than us, really, in the sense of we kind of started the same way.
If they aren't legitimate, I would say, yeah, they probably shouldn't have done that because
it comes off as maybe a little bit fake or unrealistic here.
But I do think they have, you know, they do have the ability to turn on the faucet in a sense and bring on probably a lot of customers very quickly and do that via a proxy. Right? Like,
hey, you're already accepting payments via Stripe. Let me just like here's a hosted endpoint
you could plug your API's into and it's like, oh, you're using Stripe instant checkout.
Here's a one click button to now accept, you mpp payments or whatever maybe so yeah um that's a good point no they definitely well
positioned for that uh one thing you just reminded me of it's also like how cloudflare and aws now
have that that you don't need to change your back end and you could just like enable x4 to
change your backend and you could just like enable X4 to,
on those platforms just,
and get like a dashboard view to manage your funds without changing your
backend and just enabling your endpoints to be X4 to compatible.
So I guess that's also a good thing I didn't think about,
but like X4 is also positioned to,
to kind of do some damage there which would be cool but
branch can you tell me the fee payer thing because like i didn't get that like what do you mean but
they can close it and you'll be down to 30 cents or something you mentioned yeah so on i mean on
solana there have been you know a number of prs made to the x402 over time from V1 to V2 and then still ongoing today,
making it safe to facilitate on Solana. Because when you're exposing your wallet
as the fee payer, just so everybody knows, you open yourself up to a lot of potential misuse.
Yes, we pay the fee for a transaction, and that could be a million
transactions a day. But ideally for us, that fee is as low as possible, like a millionth of a cent,
as opposed to $4. If I'm paying $4, which is absolutely possible without the right protections
to facilitate one transaction on Solana for a penny, you can see how that's a drain mechanism
and there's a there's about 12 of them that I've documented 12 different
mechanisms that say safety pitfalls for Solana facilitators and this is a very
unique thing to Solana because it's not an EVM it's it's just an architecturally
different way of doing things so just take my word for it. But then to answer your question, in the MPP SDK,
which the Solana Foundation is hosting for some crazy reason,
they, right inside of it, it says, note, you know,
you'll need to do your own internal tracking of customers' ATAs,
the Associated Token Address, because if you don't, they can just close the
token account and then reclaim the rent, which is like 30 or 40 cents in dollar terms nowadays,
maybe 20, I don't know. And then they can just do another transaction. And then you have to create
that account for them again. And you can do that a million times in a row and drain them.
And that's one of the big reasons that I just don't see.
And I'm being very Solana focused right now,
but I don't see how it makes sense to cut the facilitator out.
I mean, I've spent 12 hours on it since last night, just trying to really give it a shot
to see if it really does cut out the facilitator entirely.
And I don't see a way where you're going to expect sellers to set up their own infrastructure for this,
independently capture all 12 of these attack vectors, and have everything be great.
I just don't see it. That's what we were made for in that sense.
And it's not an issue for facilitator. It's only an issue with fee payer.
No, it's an, it's the same.
It's the same issue.
Like this has been something that we've dealt with on X-402 for months.
You know, there were times where I think back in November,
when I first encountered this for the first time, you know,
Dreams, Pay AI and Dexter, we were all getting
hit at the same time. And I think all of us, it was like a thousand bucks worth of gas.
But that was the early days. And we've come a long way since that six months ago. And we've put in
all sorts of protections into the core X-402, but also, you know, there are some that aren't still
even there yet. And that's why we don't have smart wallet support in the X-402 spec by default.
It has to be built on top until it finally gets merged. But for all these reasons and more, yet and that's why we don't have smart wallet support in the x-ray 2 spec by default it has
to be built on top until it finally gets merged but for all these reasons and more i i still see
a clear path for a facilitator at least on solana um not going anywhere yet fair dude uh i feel like
i'm doing a bad job this is the first time i'm hearing of this problem but i'm happy to like have a group
between us like like you notorious whoever is like the leading like uh facilitators on soul who who
have been writing these things and and we get like rish and everyone from solana in the same chat and
see what we could do i think that'd be great for a lot of reasons.
And everybody that you just mentioned is actively working.
And Notorious and I have worked together on this exact issue just in the last week.
So that would be great.
But it's an issue everywhere on Solana.
Time to switch the scale.
Yeah, I couldn't say it any better.
You guys heard it here first.
Ash, I need you to go push to get a full CDP support on scale.
Please, please, please, please.
It'd make everything a lot easier.
For facilitators?
Everything.
The full CDP stack.
Well, if you DM me particularly,
specifically what kind of support,
I'll be happy to push that forward.
Sure.
Gracias, my friend.
Speaking of that,
I know we're a little bit over time here,
but we've had a lot of good stuff
and we've had a lot of people
kind of come in and out of space.
For those of you that are new
that just came in,
you're more than welcome
to raise your hand
and come up and speak.
If you've got something to say regarding X402,
MPP or anything agente commerce,
just please be respectful if you do.
I am attempting to try to catch up on comments
to the space as other people are talking,
but I'm a slow reader apparently now.
So sorry if I missed your question anywhere.
But something that I do want to call out that, you know, is just really exciting and I think
really interesting for Agente Commerce as a whole, as, you know, all these standards kind of ramp up
and we see problems come up is it also does tend to lead us toward, you know, new and exciting solutions
and opportunities. So I think the Solana one's a great example. You know, we've had a lot of
people working together to try to solve this kind of architectural limitation that is probably never
going to go away. But, you know, on the EVM side, one of the things that I've been spending a lot of time on the last
week or so is confidentiality.
If you guys have heard me speak in the last couple of months, you've probably heard me
mention this at some point because it is a really big part of what we're exploring at
scale is how do we make agents capable of moving money in a way where they're not leaking
all their information about where
they got funded, how much they're getting paid, things like that. And I'm pretty pumped to share
that. I've got a really cool confidential token demo that I'm building out right now.
And as part of that, what I'm aiming to do, whether it's X402 or MPP or even just like raw transfers and escrow payments, it really doesn't matter, is ensure that agents have the ability to move money confidentially.
use this last few minutes before we wrap things up to call out, A, if you're interested in,
you know, giving your agents confidential money or anything like that, make sure to,
you know, shoot me a DM or reach out. It's the great Axios pretty much everywhere.
I do have two telegrams though. So just FYI. But otherwise, Branch, Ash, and then all the others
in the audience, I see we got a ton of builders
in here.
If you want to raise your hand and give yourself like a 30-second shill on what you've shipped
in the last like week or two, that is one of my favorite parts of this space is just
giving everyone the opportunity of, you know, what they talked about or what they've been
doing and give yourself a chance to share.
So if anyone wants to, feel free to unmute or raise your hand, come speak for 30 seconds,
and then, you know, we'll start to wrap things up once we're done there.
All right, I'll smash first.
Thank you for having us up.
So in the last week, we've put, I think, two things that I'm most satisfied with.
Number one, obviously, the MPP.
The MPP, what we call it is Simple Solana Settlements for MPP.
Now, that's going to keep the facilitator in the loop, as I mentioned earlier.
But the other exciting thing that I shipped this week and will be tweeting about more soon is X-Forto ads.
Ads for agents. Yes, ads.
The thing that keeps the Internet running, the internet economy going for 25 years.
Well, agents don't read ads, but now maybe they do.
Because with the right, well, there's two methods involved.
One of them involves middleware, one of them doesn't.
But one way or another, we're going to get ads in front of your agent, and it's going
to be relevant ads.
Ads that are actually predictive of the next resource that you're going to want.
So as a facilitator, we can see what you've been calling. And with the right machine learning algorithm,
you can kind of figure out what an agent is going to call next.
So that's what we've been shipping.
Love it.
Love it, love it, love it.
Ash?
Yeah, no, can't wait to see that, dude.
Like, I'm pretty stoked.
Like, it would be awesome.
I'm not going to share much of the stuff i'm up to but uh xeron launched uh derrick's for
two extension or not extension sorry uh enabled uh endpoints i'm excited about that because like
i think we talked about this two weeks ago um how basically when you give your agent wallet, it can start to reason economically
and make its decisions that are more dynamic based on how much budget it has left.
So when you have a researcher agent, you don't have to set a constant that I want you to
iterate your search five times before reaching a conclusion.
You just give it a budget and then let it kind of decide
how to manage that.
So with that idea, you kind of had to like
build that system yourself, like check your wallet balance
or your history of spend and all that.
But to my understanding, their API is exactly for that.
So you could like wallet APIs.
So then you could just give that as a tool to your agent
and it just can like basically like have a history track
of how it's managing its own funds.
So I'm excited about that.
I'm excited about the ERC-20 via Perm 2 being live.
I can't wait to see that being used.
Most I'm excited about this signing with X. I think
it's only a matter of time that it gets picked up. It hasn't been picked up yet. I feel like
this week's been super busy on the timeline that it kind of gone unnoticed, but there's so many
different use cases and I can't wait for extensions to pick up.
So one extension that was cool was with this world launch that you could basically now
use to be like, okay, which agent is human backed.
I think that's super needed because if you have like any scarce resources, that website
is going to get bought at to Valhalla.
And as a service provider, you don't want to just block everyone, right?
You don't want one agent to buy up all the tickets or all the special collectibles
or sneakers or festival tickets or whatever.
But you do want to allow the agents that are coming on behalf of a user.
So if I ask my gpt to like go
buy me a tomorrowland ticket or or something and you want to let that agent in so that's like one
solution to that i don't know if it's going to be the winner because like right now you need an orb
or something and um i don't know how people feel comfortable but there is a need for that and that's
one solution i'm excited about that.
And just generally more extensions coming out that use the signing with X or identity as a layer to either give like repeated access.
So if your agent already pays for content, it doesn't have to pay for that again.
Or like things like a demo I put out yesterday, like token gating, that you could check a balance and give your users free usage, kind of like how Venice is doing with inference.
But then you could do it with day passes, month passes, membership passes, DAO passes, whatever.
Or allow list.
There's a lot of cool stuff that could be done with it.
So I can't wait to see more extensions.
Same here. Same here.
I think that's an area, especially with the MVP launch,
I think we're going to start to see probably more significant growth with.
And it's probably another area, Ash, for us to just maybe chat about separately.
But I do think right now something I've been trying to figure out is
But I do think right now, something I've been trying to figure out is how do we...
Obviously, we don't want extensions necessarily going out into the wild and not be properly
done.
But I'm curious if there's a way to open up maybe a group separate from Coinbase that's made
up of some key community contributors to kind of help foster and push out more extensions
quicker and make them capable of being integrated into the Coinbase SDK and any other implementations,
but not necessarily have to require being merged into the Coinbase repo to be viable.
So maybe there's like some alternative release track and maybe like a new NPM
namespace for extensions that could maybe speed that up a little bit.
Could be cool.
Yeah, that would be awesome.
One thing is like you touched on earlier,
at least like compliance is really important to some of these bigger players.
Yep. And and like I think
extension is a great place for that I actually made the KYC extension but I wasn't able to share
because it's like a KYC thing so I took it down immediately after I shared it but like a lot of
people ask about like hey how does it like how do how do we do KYC over like agentic commerce and
I'm like hey you can actually use this extension thing.
But I think that's a great one as well.
Like, yeah, there's tons of room for cool extensions that are actually needed.
And there's different levels of compliance.
So yeah.
Definitely.
Fully with you there.
We actually have a bunch of teams building up
more so just on the raw agentic identity
and like know your agent
and a lot of really cool experimentation
occurring in that space as well. So I think that'll probably start to pick up, especially as
more people run their agent kind of as an extension of themselves. And we are seeing,
I don't know if anyone else saw this, but I have seen a bunch on the, I feel like governments and
legal ease is starting to occur around
agentic payments and identifying agents and all that stuff.
So probably going to get, I'm sure that'll throw us off for a loop pretty soon.
But very nice.
I love the progress on your guys' side as well.
We got a bunch of other builders in the crowd.
Anyone want to jump up here and show themselves real quick?
No tokens, but you can show your project
dude i'm actually scared of the token thing for tomorrow because like the the account that's
gonna host this space is cdp if it was me i would be like a bit more relaxed about it but i'm like
stressed if someone comes up tomorrow they have have their ticker in the bio or something.
Nah.
Good luck.
You know, it's always a gamble.
I just like to remind everyone that.
I'm here building for Tekken.
I'm not coming at any of this from a token perspective.
No, this is legal financial advice.
I like good stuff.
And if you shill your token, I'm going to shut you down immediately because that's just
not cool.
We're here because agents are cool, not because we're showing tokens. So all good.
I'll see you on that space tomorrow. I'll fire it up for that one too. The voice is getting a
workout this week. So if you want to hear me ramble more, you know, show up tomorrow. I'll
try to shut up and let other people talk. But anyways, anything else, Ash or Branch or Mr.
Ben Miller, who's been silent all the time before we
wrap up or anyone want to raise their hand?
Had a silent crowd today. It's kind of sad.
No, we're good?
Yeah, come by tomorrow, everyone.
And pray for me. It's going to be
a long space.
We have Branch on
at 11 to 11. 11 40 ish along with uh zeath and we have uh sawyer and
ben from scale coming on uh 150 to 2 to 10 uh pacific time nice who am i speaking with? Or am I just solo with you? You're with me and Ben.
Zioth and Dexter,
it's not that they're together.
Basically, it's like
20 minutes.
I thought since
they work closely with each other,
might as well have them
together at 40
instead of 20 you, 20 them.
Fair enough.
If there's anyone uh if there's
anyone you want to do five minutes of overlap with we're always we're always happy to play ball but
super hyped for that dude you're well more than welcome to say it's just like you spend like
honestly i was like how am i gonna schedule a freaking seven hour space with everyone in a
different time uh so in the end i like i think like the the fire alarm went on at 4 a.m. today. And I was like,
all right, time to get on with it. So I just made a decision to just do it like this. And
yeah, if there's overlaps, the more the merrier.
Fair enough. Fair enough. Maybe I'll hop in and out. Let's be honest. I'll probably
just be prompting agents the entire time anyways. I think I'm like many people just at this point, it's an addiction.
And that's okay.
And if you want any help on like, if you want any suggestions for like really interesting pairings,
I could think of a few.
Oh my gosh.
Should we share those now?
I feel like we're getting into the good stuff that everyone actually showed up for, which is...
Well, I think that Dexter and Pay AI would be really good together.
What do you think?
Pay AI is actually right
for you. If you can convince Notorious
to stay, that would be great.
I just know that... I'm just joking.
I'm just joking. I love it.
It's gonna be like,
I don't know, probably like, I don't know,
4 or 5 AM or something. Something terrible timing, probably, I don't know, probably like, I don't know, 4 or 5 a.m. or something.
Something terrible timing, probably.
I don't know.
Oh, that's true.
Well, I'm super excited about it for tomorrow.
Yeah.
I mean, you're going to have to get your sleep, but I'm super excited.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
Oh, wow.
We've been on this thing for so long.
I forgot how to talk.
Thank you so much, everybody, for joining me today.
This is your final reminder that Scale is the blockchain network built for the Internet of Agents.
And we're looking to bring a billion agents on chain, moving lots and lots of money.
And we've got some incredible partners like Dexter here with us.
And I guess we'll call Coinbase like a pseudo partner.
We're like loosely associated.
I don't think I can legally claim you guys are a partner.
Maybe I can't, I don't know.
But, you know, we work together a lot
and do a lot of cool stuff together.
And lots of other people in the crowd.
But yeah, if you're looking to build
with X402 Agents of Commerce,
reach out to any of us up here on stage speaking.
If you're looking to do confidential tokens
or anything private on chain,
shoot me a DM or DM the scale account.
They'll forward you over to me.
And yeah, I have no idea what time Ash's space starts today
in some other part of the world or tomorrow,
but we'll be back here yapping it up
more about X402 tomorrow.
So thanks so much everyone for joining me and yeah,
just don't be a stranger. Let's build.
Bye guys. Thank you.
