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XXIM Kaspa weekly call with Kaspa’s consciousness expert - Sterling C
Recorded: March 26, 2025 Duration: 1:44:14Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion covers the launch of Al-Dhoud, the first decentralized science DAO on Kaspah, and the development of Ultra DAO, which focuses on ultrasound technology. The conversation highlights the innovative use of Kaspah's low gas fees and the minting of a KRC 20 token for rewarding participants. Additionally, an upcoming Alzheimer's study aims to explore the potential of ultrasound technology in reversing memory loss, showcasing the project's commitment to scientific advancement.
Full Transcription
Bhophe.
...you
... ...
... ...
... ...
Hey guys, can you hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you.
Okay, hey Sterling.
Yeah, just give us a second.
We're just going through the technical process of eating everyone.
Okay, and Kent, can you hear me?
Hey, yes, I can hear you.
And hey, hi Sterling, how are you?
Hey, I'm doing good. Good to see you guys.
Yeah, good morning. I think it's very early for you.
6.30, right? Your time?
Yeah, pretty early.
Yeah, wow.
Thanks for being here, Stirling. We appreciate it.
Yeah, my pleasure. I really appreciate the video you put out as well of our conversation.
So thank you. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, we're going to go through it. But sorry, Christina, it's all yours. So take it from here.
No, what are you saying? It's not mine. I'm just going to do the intro and put out some questions.
It's for everyone, but awesome.
It's decentralized, right? I like to speak.
Okay, so, yeah, so it seems like we have a couple of people already here, and I'm sure we'll have more people joining.
So, yeah, I'll just do a quick intro and, you know, set out some...
Not really rules, but just, yeah, just basically tell everyone that it's an open space.
So anyways, yeah, without the further ado, let's start.
So, guys, thank you so much, everyone, for joining our weekly Casper calls with myself,
Christina, and Ankhart, who are co-hosts of XXIM.
And XXIM is really focused on decentralization with the Casper at the heart of it.
And today we have Sterling joining us, who is a biotech innovator with a passion for exploring consciousness.
He has lots of years of experience in ultrasound space and also applications that he's building with ultrasound.
And so he is working on something truly, truly innovative, in my opinion,
Al-Dhoud, which happens to be also the first decentralized science DAO built on Kaspah.
And also, Sterling, he is Casper OG and Casper and Bitcoin Miner.
I hope I did a good interest, Sterling.
And also, guys, just to remind you that we have published a pod where Sterling and Anket
has a...
diving really deep into consciousness and also, you know, talking, discussing ultra-dow.
So, guys, if you want to gain a couple extra wrinkles in your brain, I really recommend you
watching it. It is a little bit intense, but yeah, probably requires a couple of times to watch it.
Yeah, so Sterling, welcome and good morning.
Yeah, good morning. Thanks. Great introduction. Yeah, pretty accurate. And yeah, definitely, I think, yeah, you'll develop, I would say, more microtubules by trying to understand what the nature of consciousness could be. So, yeah.
Yeah, it's worth it. I think so.
Oh, that's amazing.
I love it.
You will develop an extra micro-tipules.
We're going to become Sterling Ellen Musk.
Hey, you know, it's a pretty high bar to set, but I believe in setting a very high bar for life.
So, yeah, sure.
No, I love it.
I love it.
Thank you.
That's great.
Yeah, guys, amazing.
So also, just remind everyone, this is an open space.
So I'm going to be sending speaker invites to everyone now.
And I know I don't need to repeat it, but guys, please be respectful.
And also please retweet the space for more people to join.
And yeah, if you could please give Sterling and ourselves a follow, we would really appreciate it.
Thank you.
I'm going to be sending speaker advice, but Sterling, if you could just, you know, explain to the community what is your background, you know, so that we just understand a bit more about yourself, and then we'll probably just go straight away to Ultradale.
Yeah. So, okay, so my background, I think...
I mean, I've definitely been involved in a lot of stuff, but I think how I got to kind of the relevant topics of today.
I think it was my introduction to crypto, I think was important for me to be able to also do some ultrasound in the D-SI crypto space.
So I started in crypto back in, I think it was like 2011.
Yeah.
2012-ish. I read the Bitcoin white paper. I started mining because I had a
a 5970 graphics card that I was using for playing video games in college and
I started mining it right there. So I was like, oh, that's really interesting. Like it's a digital currency. It's a
yeah, it was really really a cool concept for me to play around with and
And that was before I started working in ultrasound.
So then a few years later was when I got involved with,
basically there was a paper that said that if you stimulate the brain with ultrasound,
with this device that was used in a paper was a GE logic device,
which is a scanning ultrasound used in a clinical setting in a hospital.
And the principal investigator claimed that ultrasound could make you feel different.
And his report was, I believe it was like 15 seconds of ultrasound to the right temporal window,
gave him the sensation of taking a sip of a dry martini.
So it had kind of an analgesic slash maybe drinking a little bit of alcohol effect.
And I've seen, I think we've all seen nowadays just the kind of the, some of the devastating effects of drug and alcohol abuse in the world.
And really the thing that drove me to enter into the field was I was like, well, I think people innately, they have a desire to change their state.
However they, however that might be, right?
Then maybe it's the drugs or music or whatever.
Right.
So it's not for me to clamp down and say, well, all of that should stop.
It should be the only author.
There should only be the authorized one way to change your state, right?
It's just not going to work.
So I thought at least you could give people an option that wouldn't cause so much harm.
There's a lot of people who depend on state changing compounds or activities, right?
where I'm like, if there could be an alternate option in the market that gives people the ability to still get that same shift in their feeling, their qualia, then that should be developed, something that's just as good, but 10 times or 100 times safer.
And so that's why I entered into ultrasound.
And that actually took me down to Arizona.
to Tucson to work directly with Stuart Hamroff, Jason Gwynetti, John Allen, a bunch of
greats in neuroscience to develop ultrasound technology for some of their research.
There's just a great opportunity for me to kind of enter in at that time, and they studied
yeah, ultrasound for treating depression. And that's led to the development of quite a few
large companies now that use that IP and that technology.
So that was, yeah, 10 plus years ago.
And so where that all kind of dovetailed in today, like where we are today, or I would say maybe two years ago,
20, two or three years ago, 2022 and 2022, and 23 was when I started listening to Paul Kolos at the
Molecule Dow.
And he was talking about.
kind of taking the core IP out of the university system and putting it into the blockchain
and using nft technology you know the same nfti that gives us the um the milady nfti pictures or the
you know the any number of them i never really got super into the jpeg kind of picture nfti thing
but i was highly aware of it um he is like well
The protocol is allowable to load research concepts too.
And then the mechanism of trading and financing and getting paid for your work is being explored with art.
But it could just as easily be used for the actual intellectual property and the real hardcore tech of, in his case, drug development.
And so I was just really entranced by that idea.
And then he talked about, you know, potentially the initial patients who use the drugs, right?
So clinical trials are really important for drug development.
And a lot of the people who participate, they never see any ownership stake in
in any of the drugs that are experimented on them.
They're taking oftentimes some of the biggest risks with these drugs.
And so he proposed, and him and some others in the space,
what if you could actually have fractionalized intellectual property distribution
of this core technology so that those people could someday,
five years, ten years down the line,
when the drug or technology gets commercialized, that they could have a cut of a portion of the
of the technology that they were pretty instrumental in helping succeed. So, yeah, that
that sounded amazing. And I know that's not a simple thing to solve exactly, but I felt it was
just one of those things that's worth
worth exploring.
Yeah.
So that's how we got here.
That's amazing stories, Sterling.
Truly wonderful story.
And I think the way you've just told a story
sort of connects a lot of different dots, right,
for a lot of people.
Because typically when we come to these spaces, we
you know, we tend to focus more on technology or, you know, the money side of things.
But I think, you know, what you're highlighting here is...
is this, this lack on the scientific community, right?
We had the session and we went through some of the things, perhaps, that you're working on.
I'm sure, I mean, all the last whatever, you know, time you've spent in this field alone, you have so much knowledge.
But I love the way you connected, you know, from your experience, from...
you know, Bitcoin mining all the way to now being able to or trying to create this, this, this, this, this, this, this, FD on Casper.
So it's a beautiful story. And commend you for, you know, just I guess all the, all the journey you went through.
But just, just, you know, I guess, you know, as we sort of mentioned to you,
that for this session, we wanted to focus purely on the Tao side and purely on the Kaspah,
because that's what, you know, most of the community member perhaps are coming from that background.
But, you know, we want to have fun here.
We want to use your time while we've got you here also to get, you know, to ask you a question around consciousness,
because that's, I think, perhaps for us.
that's a very fascinating area of science
along with
everything else that you're working on
so so let's start with the Tao first
and obviously I'll I'll love to
subsequently get
you know to like perhaps open it to community
sorry yeah guys can you hear me
I can now
yeah I can yeah we can hear you
I think you can't hear us
Can you hear us, Christina?
No, I can't hear anyone.
Are you guys talking with each other?
Just give me a sign.
Yes.
Okay, seems like you can hear each other.
I'm just going to put myself on mute.
I can't hear anyone.
Angit was talking and all of a sudden he disappeared.
So, guys, let's just perhaps continue the space.
Yeah, these spaces are very glitchy.
I think we've, every time we've come to get that.
Let's just continue the space.
And in case, in case the space stops, I'll just restart it quickly.
It's just been, it's becoming a headache the spaces almost every time we have some issues.
So, okay, I'm going to mute myself.
You please carry on the conversation.
Yeah, perfect, perfect.
So, awesome.
Sterling, so, you know, I think just carrying on the conversation.
So Caspar, right?
Like we've touched upon on the pod podcast, like you're, like you found Casper a year ago.
And you obviously, you know, we briefly touched upon it that you're really like big on Casper.
So let's go through that quickly if you, if we could.
So why, why you, you know, why you chose Casper to build this ultra Dow?
Now, I know, you know, Dauz has been around for two years or so.
I know we've spoken to a few of the DSI projects, right?
I think you mentioned, you know, that sort of your initial idea of IPNFT came from that.
But why did you come to Kaspal?
Like, because obviously Kaspai's new protocol, there's, you know, the 7-1 just got launched recently.
So why Kaspal?
Yeah, good question.
I think if, you know, I mean, I think there's a technique I've seen in it's called like the study of persuasion.
And there's oftentimes this, it's called like a persuasive fallacy is giving a laundry list of reasons why you do something, right?
Just like, but I always relate it back to that there should be like one, like what's the one big reason why?
Yeah.
And I would honestly say that when I first launched an NFT with Catalyst, which is, that's, that was the platform that molecule is using to help NFTify some of our IP.
They used, they used the Ethereum network previously.
Then they had to use base, base of polia, which has less fees.
And then layer two, right?
Yeah, it's kind of like Coinbase's custom Ethereum protocol essentially.
Yeah, yeah.
Just to avoid the fees.
That's the main reason.
And I've seen.
Condition also.
Yeah.
And I've seen like just how expensive just sending some Ethereum is based on the gas fees and stuff.
And I would and then I saw what Caspa was.
And I was like, it's 0.001 Caspa to be able to send basically any amount of Caspa.
And so the really the one reason is that it actually seems like it lives up to the promise of a digital currency, which shouldn't be charging 10% of what you're trying to send to someone.
So literally, I mean, I think if I were going to give one single reason, it would just be because the gas fees comparable to other networks is just, it's unfathomably low on Castro.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that was one of the deciding reason for you, the gas fee, right?
Because, yeah, obviously you have Solana and other changes that are sort of, you know, you know.
they are pretty, the finalties quick and they also, you know, the fee is very low there too.
And that's why we have so many meme coins getting created.
But, you know, I think, I think, yeah, I know you mentioned you're being minor and you love
the mining coins.
But, you know, I just let you explain.
And we want to get into the actual details of Ultradown and stuff because that's the
exciting part.
But I think it's just getting this out the way.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so yeah, I mean, I think that was the primary reason.
And what the, what that kind of tech stack allows is for me a much more real-time application of the technology.
Because I wanted to make like really in my heart of hearts what I see for people that are
involved in crypto and in some science as well is that they they're able to make money.
Like people, that's not the one thing in academics is undergraduates or researchers get paid way less than if you worked full time at McDonald's, essentially.
And I think they're actually providing value that's far and beyond what flipping burgers is.
And so they don't really get rewarded in any way.
Yeah.
And then some of the other things with academic research is even if you do get $30,000
per year as a researcher, as an undergrad or a PhDs didn't oftentimes is they don't even
get to keep a majority of what they research.
That all goes to the university.
So it's kind of taken out of their hands.
And the only option they have is to maybe get hired by a big company, a big drug company or whatever.
And then the tech transfer office sells the IP back to the big corporation.
Then the corporation commercializes it and then resells that down to the end consumer.
So there's a lot of these like weird things.
And so with with crypto and with really any kind of D-SI or really any crypto is that there's there's much more of a sense of ownership over what you're doing.
And so I think that's really important.
I think just fundamentally, just as a way of seeing the world, I really do encourage people to
as much as they can to have some stake in what they're working on,
like an actual ownership stake of what they put their time to.
And that's possible now.
So crypto in general offers that ability.
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's, that's true. Um, guys, um, I, I don't know what
happens to Christina and if she's going to be around, but I think I wanted to say to everyone,
please, please, please send us your, um, if you have any questions for selling, if you want to
come up, uh, and ask stealing any cushion, um, on any topic, really, I think myself, um,
you know please do come up i think again we try to keep these spaces open for everyone um so please
do come up if you have anything to ask or share or your experience um i know golden you always
have something to share uh Alex good to see you um if you guys want to obviously come up um hey katya
good to see you please come up and share um but just carrying on the discussion um
So Sterling, that's awesome.
Now let's move on to the Ultra Dow because I think that's the key here.
So you're building Ultra Dow.
That's just the Dow part.
Tell us the technology that you, that's basing that on, right?
So that's the Dow.
do you already have the tick available and what is this tick what does it do um and you know
whom is it trying to help i know we touched some of these topics on the pot but i think it'll be
good to cover some of that now again
Yeah, yeah, so the ultra-Dao, it's technically, it's kind of both.
So it's technically an ultrasound DAO.
It's really based on the technology of ultrasound.
And then what we can do with ultrasound and exploring that to its fullest over many years.
I mean, I expect to be probably, I'm pretty sure I'll be working in ultrasound for another 10 years at least.
Wait, so do you come from ultrasound?
Like, how do you get into ultra?
I know you just mentioned that you've been working on for some time,
but did you study ultrasound or how did you get into ultrasound in first place?
Yeah, yeah.
So when I was a little kid back in when I was in high school,
I did a couple of projects based on elastography and then electronics to do ultrasound applications
through just water.
And so I had some experience with that when I was really young.
And then in college, I was on track to do the EKS program at UC Berkeley.
And so I was studying computer science and electronics.
And it was funny, it was about that time where I found Bitcoin.
And I started mining Bitcoin.
And I was kind of like, you know, young rebel.
I was like, well, fuck this.
Like, what am I going to do?
Like, go work for some company and get a pittance or mine Bitcoin and potentially, you know,
because one month, I mean, I think I made.
Like for me as a kid, really was a 20 year old kid or something like that.
I think I made like three grand in a month.
I heard also that.
Did you mention in the pod like you...
maybe before the part i think you mentioned your mind a um a solo but yeah like it's
i did i i i mined a solo block back in 2011 yeah so it was 50 bitcoin yeah yeah i was pretty
stoked um i didn't i didn't realize i mean i think it was worth a five dollars or something
like that or ten dollars so i wasn't like oh my god i'm retiring for the rest of my life but i was
like this is this is just felt good
And that was just solo mine.
But I did go between solo and pooling back then.
Right.
So yeah, but how I got into ultrasound was it was actually after, I took a one-year break from college to explore Bitcoin more.
And then when I came back to Berkeley, that was about the time that I read that paper from Stuart Hammeroff about the effects of ultrasound.
And so I was like, yeah, you know what?
Like as much as I like just the pure financial Bitcoin stuff, I know.
I just had an innate feeling that just being a number pusher to some degree, like, you know, just staring at my stock ticker for the rest of my life, I probably wouldn't be very fulfilled doing that.
and that I needed to have my hands in a project like a building something.
That was it. And so I said, I see. I said, you know what, I'm just going to start working on ultrasound full time.
And then so I started doing.
private development. So just taking my knowledge of electrical engineering and started building from scratch ultrasound systems, literally like using Altium designer, laying out a board, selecting components, printing them, soldering them, testing them, the whole deal.
And then Stuart Hameroff actually visited Berkeley, California to give a speech about consciousness.
And one of the students in the philosophy department who knew me
knew that I talked about consciousness from time to time, and I was a fan of Stuart.
And he's like, he messaged Stewart.
And he's like, there's this, there's this guy here in Berkeley who's building ultrasound, and he's a big fan of yours.
Could I invite him to come up to this private session and meet you?
And Stuart was like, yeah, sure.
So that's when I came up.
And he said, yeah.
He's like, man, I've got the greatest news for you.
You get to come meet Stewart and I was like, okay, cool.
And so I brought one of my ultrasound systems, a small handheld ultrasound.
And right before the talk, I just walked up to him.
He was sitting on a couch and I was like, hey, you're Stuart.
I'm Sterling.
It's really good to meet you.
I brought an ultrasound.
Would you like to see it?
He's like, of course.
And so he actually invited me to give a five-minute presentation just before him.
So I became his opening act for that session.
And so after that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so we really, we really hit it off and very, I mean, both shared a similar passion about
the potential of ultrasound to modify consciousness or to interact with consciousness or modulate
And so yeah, from there, within a few days, I was basically hired as a contractor to help
them build out their internal tech knowledge about ultrasound and the tech, how to build
it and all that kind of stuff.
So I was a paid contractor from that point on.
That's beautiful. That's beautiful.
Yeah.
So my, yeah, my ultrasound experience goes back pretty far.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It seems like it. And I've got a few hands, but I was going to say for, to tell everyone that, you know, Stuart Hammeroff, perhaps not many of you have heard of him.
He's, you know, I think I'll let Sterling explain,
but he's written a paper with Roger Penrose on consciousness.
And Roger Penrose, if you haven't heard that name,
he's won a Nobel Prize.
Not on this paper, but in the past, he's won a Nobel Prize.
So he's a very known person in scientific community
that Stuart Hammeroff has worked with.
So when Sterling is talking about Stuart Hammerov,
His theory of or go are which we covered in the podcast is one of the most known theories in consciousness
And and you know we will probably cover some of that now
But I let Golden go first golden please
Thank you guys I know can you hear me yeah
Yes we can hear you sir
Oh, great. Can you hear me?
Yep.
Yeah.
Oh, great. Okay.
Yeah.
No, I saw the episode.
I think it's fascinating.
Like Sterling, where you're working, and I think it's absolutely mind-blowing.
Also, bringing the centralized science, you know, to the space, I think is very valuable.
But somehow, like, maybe, you know, taking this time and the audience,
you know.
For you to explain more about the whole Dow structure, how it actually works, was the token economics behind why the token.
You mentioned a token and NFT in the episode.
So maybe what's the reason behind it?
Because usually, I mean, you know, like a minute.
You have like mint.
where you want to explain a little bit more how this somehow reflects within the Caspa ethos.
So yeah, that's pretty much my question.
Thank you so much.
I love Golden.
You've pretty much gone through straight into it.
But I think it's a good question.
Yeah.
Because I don't think we covered it.
And I think that's why we wanted to have this chat specifically for the community.
Yeah, yeah.
Great question.
Yeah, so...
Okay, so my learning about DAOs, a lot of it came from joining the Vita Dow community and the Molecule Dow, and then many of the DAWS in that D-SY space.
And from what I saw was that they would utilize a governance token to be able to have people, be able to vote on proposals from within that community.
And the way that over time, as I started to digest that concept or that framework for how a doubt works,
I started to think of maybe one, there was one Twitter post that got me to really reconsider that governance model,
which was, you know, the kinds of people that you want involved in your organization.
probably generally shouldn't have the time to sit around voting on a bunch of many proposals all the time, nor the time to dedicate to kind of like sitting in a discord server, which is where all that's located.
I have it.
I have a discord server, but.
it is a lot of time spent just in Discord.
And my, for me, personally, I mean, my time would rather be spent in the electronics lab or doing stuff like this or whatever.
And so my, as well, my thinking about the legality.
I guess I would say the legal justification for a governance token seems really born out of the SEC having very unclear rules about tokenomics and securities.
So I was like, well, could I like, I mean, it's not bad to follow what everybody else is doing.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But I'm like, if I could just go back to first principles and rethink this whole governance token, is that something that I would really want to do?
And ultimately, what I decided was probably not.
And, you know, I understand the rules are, they're relatively unclear.
Like, what's the legality of having a security or a stock certificate or something like that?
And so I thought, yeah, maybe we'll espouse the governance token.
It's a lot to manage, really.
And then there's all kinds of issues with air dropping tokens with Ethereum
where you can get hacked really easily.
So it's like I kind of want to avoid that, especially if some of the people working in
NFT space where I am could be older, right?
So like our current target right now is Alzheimer's and dementia.
And I'm like, they would be easy targets of spoofing or fishing or anything like that.
So I actually want to try to tamp down the token dependent nature of it.
So I have minted a token, a KRC 20 token for the Dow.
And the way that we're utilizing it is actually as a first,
So primarily we're utilizing it as a reward function for people who just purchase an ultrasound system.
That's the first thing that we're doing with it.
So if you purchase it,
Sorry, selling, I couldn't hear.
I don't know if you were clear.
So what did you say last part?
Like you were doing this, the KRC20 token that you minted.
You are using it as a reward function.
What did you say there?
Like how are you doing the reward function?
Yeah.
So let's say that you purchase one of the devices that we're using in this study,
which is actually going very likely to go through within the next probably month or so.
our first actual institutional study is that people will purchase a US 2000 second edition ultrasound for $150.
That's the that's the price for these.
And they're really well manufactured.
And they have a serial number on the bottom.
And that's unique to each device.
So what we're doing is we have them submit their serial number on.
to a portal on ultra-dow.t.o, which I think is on the homepage, it says redeem,
and it gives you all the instructions.
And then all you do is you submit a little form.
goes into our dashboard on on my end and then I'm able to actually send to their wallet
they have to provide a Caspo wallet address and then I actually send them the equivalent of a
dollar spent on the ultrasound in tokens so that's that's actually for me to give people
that kind of stake and to encourage the kind of behavior that I'm trying to encourage
because all tokens are it's a mechanism of
I guess it's a nudge to get people to participate in a specific way.
And at the end of the day, people should, in my community, should have an ultrasound.
And so that's my primary crypto function within the non-study,
aspect of it. So you don't have to be part of a study to still buy an ultrasound or or to have a stake in some in some of the tokenomics there.
Just to get into the numbers because I'm happy to share that. We minted by default a hundred million ultra token.
And so, yeah, we basically reward it if you have a valid serial number for the ultrasound device.
So that's kind of our, that's kind of our.
That's beautiful.
So it's not like, it's not that these, these are these tokens traded?
The ultra tokens are trading anywhere?
Because you can obviously do OTC and, you know, all the things.
But, I mean, that's the first part, which is that.
we like if I buy this ultra this US 200 device ultrasound device you'll just match up and marry up like the serial number based on the database you have and then if you're happy you'll just reward me
the you will reward me the tokens right alter tokens whatever the portion is you reward me that
token just based on me buying the ultrasound device exactly exactly yeah okay because that's as much as we
can that's cool that's as much as we can track right now so so that's a that's a first step into
the next things and then i i don't want to move past the Dow model yet um the way
The way that I see it is, I personally don't love, again, spending a bunch of time on Discord.
I know what you do.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
It's busy space.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So my network of experts, I just maintain the normal ways.
You know, I pick up the phone and I call them.
I send them an email.
And I don't think all that has to be on the blockchain.
I don't think it does.
If we make decision, you know, because like, again, you know, you look at Amazon, you look at SpaceX, they're not like vote.
You know, Tesla owners don't vote on micro features of the Tesla, but it does seem like that's kind of what it's, that's what's happening in a Dow today, like a D-Side Dow especially.
Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I just don't like that.
Sterling, I've got, we've got Katya here.
Katya, obviously, Katya, hey Katya, if you can hear us, please, to come up.
Katya runs, I think you're part of Microbiome Tao Katja, if I'm not mistaken here.
Hey, yeah.
Oh, wait, is my sound okay? I think I'm in the weird room.
It's a good...
Ah, we can hear you? We can hear you, yeah. You're perfect.
Perfect.
Okay, great, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, hello, guys, interesting conversation happening here, happily joining it.
Yeah, I am building microbiome Dow, and I think that my kind of general statement is that I believe that the most powerful intelligence system on the planet is not like artificial in any way, it's biological, and we like barely begun to unlock it.
So I'm really curious to understand your thoughts, guys, around the microbiome, if you know anything about it, but I'm going to just tell you that the gut microbiome influence a lot of things in our bodies.
So our thoughts, our mood, our behavior through several intervened pathways.
And like one of the examples, for example, is like 90% of psodotinin is being produced in our gut.
So basically, a lot of things are being controlled by, you know, little microbes that we, like, barely, you know, know how they work and how they affect the decisions that we make somehow and a bunch of other stuff.
So just curious and understand what do you guys' thoughts around consciousness, like, and who is...
Who's controlling? What is controlling us?
What are we really?
That's a very, very good question.
Yeah, so I think that also bringing this forward, I feel like we talk a lot about consciousness as being brain bound kind of.
And we talk a little about consciousness and intelligence is like the whole kind of system, our biological system, being so powerful and so intelligent.
And we, you know, tend to think somehow that, you know, our brains are...
is our consciousness and our brains are these kind of machines that operate and we need to kind of work
our ways to improve that. But I honestly don't believe that's true. Like I believe there's so much
we yet to have to uncover. And just wanted to, you know, open the floor for the conversation
in this, in this space.
Kataa, thank you.
I think I would definitely love to get into with Stirling.
I think Stirling is the perfect guest to enlighten us here on consciousness.
But if you can just hold tight, I think we'll just carry on the governance side of Ultra
and then we'll move more into the consciousness discussion, just so that we can sort of, you know,
put things in perspective and not deviated from the topic we were discussing before.
So if you don't mind, we'll just carry on discussion.
I love, I personally want them back to the consciousness topic.
I just want to wrap this, the ultra topic first, so that, you know, people get the answers.
I'll carry on in a question.
I love, I personally want them back to the consciousness topic.
Yeah.
Hey, guys.
You can hear us now, right?
Yeah.
I personally want to.
Yeah.
Are you able to hear?
Hey, guys.
Hey.
Hey.
Okay, so I can hear.
Hey, guys.
I'm really sorry if I interrupt anyone.
So I actually, I can't hear you still from my phone, but I managed to log in from one of the extra Twitter profiles that I have.
I'm listening anonymously now from laptop.
Yeah.
Yeah, I had to.
But anyways, so there is a massive lag in between.
I'm listening to all the amazing conversations and hey, Katya, so glad to see you here and really want to get into the consciousness conversation as well.
So, yeah, I can't hear anyone because I put myself, I put the laptop on mute, but I'm here.
I'm still sending speaker invites to everyone.
And, you know, at the end, I guess I have some questions as well.
So just so that I don't interrupt anyone, I will just ask them separately at the very end.
But really amazing conversation and so happy that everyone is engaging.
Okay, bye.
I think, yeah, I might be laggy here.
I don't know what's going on.
But sorry, Stirling, I think if you can hear me, we can carry on the ultra-Dao governance model you were explaining.
I think you've sort of summed it well.
100 million tokens you've minted.
Anything else? Because an FD part, perhaps we haven't. We haven't covered and how these
NFT is going to be used. Have you minted the NFTs? Perhaps we haven't, we haven't gone through
those questions, right?
Yeah, so the NFTs, we just made a breakthrough last week, which is we really wanted to get the actual code that runs the ultrasound into the NFT.
That's the key part.
It's not just a picture.
It's not just a token that says, like, I participated.
It actually is the actual IP, like something that would be sold to a large company.
So my hope is that...
You know, we take this study.
Totally.
How does it work?
How does it work this?
When you say IP, I know IP NFTs are very common in these side projects, but just for everyone, how do they work?
Yeah.
So I'll just explain it like in my case.
So we have a microcontroller inside of the ultrasound that when you press a button starts to output a signal using i squared c protocol.
And it sends to a timing chip called the PLL.
And then that splits the signal into really high frequency ultrasound signals.
And so that the...
I would call it the intellectual capital that went into designing that and making it work is expressed in terms of hex code.
So it's like ones and zeros.
And it's assembly, right?
So it's just assembly code that gets
Yeah, put onto the chip.
So the same file, it's called a hex file that gets loaded through a
through a miso-Mosey serial clock system to that chip.
That's like if you like basically if we lose that,
if I lost that for some reason, it would be devastating.
It would take months to re-engineer it from scratch.
So I'm assuming you have backups, right?
I do. Yes, of course.
Yeah, of course.
Of course.
But that is a, that's, you know, obviously the time to develop and the expertise required to develop is equated in terms of intellectual property or or capital.
It's a capital device.
It's a value.
It's a store of value in a sense.
And it's valuable in the sense that if ultrasound, which we're showing now, can reverse Alzheimer's, which it is, we really have data coming in already on that, then that makes that not just valuable on some level, but also now it's a potential reversal for a, I think the numbers are a billion dollars spent about per day on Alzheimer's care.
Yeah.
So you kind of squeeze that function into, oh, wow.
So how much financial relief could be provided if patients weren't as sick,
if they didn't lose their ability to communicate or to have a memory or anything like that?
So that's kind of expressed within that, within the value that we place on the token.
I would call it the NFT of that code.
And then also that code is modifiable too.
So with ultrasound, there's not just one frequency.
There's many frequencies that you can do.
And I've experimented with many different frequencies over the probably last 10 years.
And there are some that provide a really incredible, I would say, close to psychedelic effect from ultrasound.
And that's not what we're providing for the Alzheimer's project.
But we do anticipate...
that in the next year will probably release a few different versions of our NFT that are directed towards different functions.
Some of the things that we've looked at,
One of them, I mean, of course, you know, you look at a big market and you say, what would be the next good step for the overall project?
One that I came into, which is related to Katia's question, was a vagus nerve stimulation.
So there's a way to stimulate the vagus nerve that can, in theory, I haven't, there's not enough studies on this yet, but there's enough initial data that there's,
There is a similar function to how ultrasound stimulates the vagus nerve and how a drug like
Ozempic works to help someone lose weight by stimulating the Vegas nerve, making them feel like,
okay, I'm more full than usual, I'm not as hungry, these kinds of things.
And so we've seen some of that lightweight data from ultrasound on the Vegas nerve.
So that will be a completely different NFT.
And I probably won't be able to call it OZempic NFT or ultra ultra ozempic or anything like that,
just because of the name, trademark.
But it'll be something like that.
So that's kind of how these NFTs work is.
And so the function long term is, let's say in five years, right?
We have a company that's a major company.
that wants to move into this ultrasound space,
they'll likely have to go to us or a couple of other people
and make bids on,
you know,
we love the Alzheimer's ultrasound frequency that you developed
and the core technology.
We'd like to license it or outright purchase it.
So everybody who has ownership of those NFTs is due a certain percentage of that license fee.
And we can do that through smart contracts, which are coming now to Caspa, which is what they do in the base or Ethereum protocol for DCI.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's kind of the, that's kind of the mechanism of how these things kind of,
are shaping up to work overall.
And in terms of that's how I consider the DAO is a network of people who are either somewhat interested in ultrasound from a technology perspective,
or people who are actively using it, because I think that's what matters in the end.
Yeah.
And also, lastly, I'll say is, if you are part of a D-Sai Dow,
I think it's important that you are considered a user of the technology that comes out of it.
Because that means that kind of makes it like the most, like you are a stakeholder in that technology,
regardless of if you have some percentage ownership.
Like, you know, not everybody in a molecule DAO who might take the drugs that they come up with.
But what I see for the ultrasound DAO is we want to develop the tech so that everybody who is part of it would be like, wow, I feel like I would like to try this.
There's something that's there for me.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's how I kind of see that.
That's kind of the model of the doubt for me.
I see.
I see.
I think that was a good question from Golden.
Golden, did it cover all the parts that you asked in your question if you're still here?
While we're waiting, just selling, I think, you know, one of the things you mentioned before was that you're thinking of integrating these NFTs, this, you know, KRC.
Oh, yeah, Golden is happy with that.
Yeah.
One of the things you mentioned Sterling was that you're thinking of integrating with some sort of wallet that can hold CASPA, KRC 20 and KRC 721, which is equivalent to the NFTs.
And so I guess the question there is, is it a different...
technology that you're going to develop.
I know the hex code, all the IP can remain the same,
but all of that can work on a wallet on your phone,
all these things.
Because obviously right now you're really relying on people
that have this ultrasound device.
But in the future, you want to move away from that or you want to sort of explore a new channel with this Kaspah wallet?
Yeah, good question.
So I think, I don't think we're able to get away from having a separate ultrasound device.
Okay.
Maybe someday, you know, if Apple gets their stuff together, they'll put an ultrasound transducer on the back of the ultrasound that you just hold up to your head potentially.
I see that. I don't see that ever happening.
So it's either going to have to be something that extends out of your phone.
I don't think that's going to happen.
But the way that we're doing it is, so there's a standard ultrasound system, and there's an application that you have on your phone, which holds the IP, and is able to program your ultrasound using the NFC protocol.
So it's the same exact protocol that...
allows you to go to Starbucks and hold your phone over the payment and make a payment.
So it's the same type of technology underlying that.
That's how you actually, that's how you would reflash the ultrasound to be able to do a different function.
So it's one function at a time.
You know, we don't want to put a screen on the ultrasound.
We don't want to add a bunch of other stuff.
It's not Wi-Fi connected.
It's just a pretty much, I would say,
it's really complicated inside of an ultrasound in terms of what it's doing.
Yeah.
But the only functionality that you need is the NFC programming.
And then that's it.
So yeah, we were trying to keep it, you know, again,
We want to minimize complexity.
So, yeah, ultimately you'll have a wallet on your phone that works like Caspium or Tangam or any of these kinds of things.
And you'll have your NFTs stored on your wallet on your phone.
And you'll say, oh, you know what?
Today I'd like, maybe I'd like to try the sleep NFT, the one that does the sleep ultrasound.
Okay.
So you'll select that on the app, and then you'll hold that up to your ultrasound, and you'll hit Flash, and I'll go, pitting!
And then you now you have an ultrasound that's in sleep mode that that administers a sleep frequency that you use before bed and it puts you right to sleep like ambient
So the phone with this activation of the utility NFT will activate the ultrasound with a specific
With a specific wave length, right? Yeah, exactly and so the yeah to get specific just real quick specifics is ultrasound
is the any frequency that's above 20,000 hertz above the ability for humans to hear it.
The ultrasound, the US 2000 outputs at 1 million pulses per second.
So it's a really fast frequency.
And then where we get to do some really amazing things is how many times per second do you pulse it on or off?
So that means I'm pulsing a megahertz frequency, but I do it in a carrier wave of one millisecond,
and then I pause for one second, and then I pulse again for one millisecond, and then I pause for one second.
So it's this kind of envelope that sends it and then stops.
And so the more you play with that, you realize that there's like, okay, a thousand times per second as a package carrier.
has a really different effect from 100 hertz.
And so you can modulate effects of what the person's feeling
based on some of the really unique modulation of the actual core ultrasound.
So that's a huge domain space that we get to work in.
It's not infinite, but it's still a lot.
It means that are probably a portfolio most likely will look like,
I mean, probably I would say 50 potential...
types of
NFTs that will come out of this just this single device over the next I'd say
Oh, 50 different
type of NFTs and you could have 10,000 20,000 like in terms of total number but
per device, you could have 50 different types of NFT that could then obviously have subsequent frequencies.
Exactly. So each NFT would have its own specific frequency labeled with its own effect.
So this would, you know, this would be what the, you know, humans don't read hex code.
or assembly or anything like that.
So it's going to have to say this is a sleep frequency,
and it's the sleep NFT.
You just program it to your phone.
You don't have to know the core technology of all the things going on behind the scenes,
but you're just like, I want to sleep, I select this, and I flash it,
and then you're using it right there.
It takes all of, I think, four seconds to do.
So it's like a four second process.
And one of the things that we're looking at doing is, so anytime you send an NFT or move in an NFT, there's a gas fee.
So what we're anticipating is that people will actually pay, they'll pay using their KRC 20 token, not their actual CASPA.
to be able to do one flash, essentially.
So they'll utilize the ultra token that we're now providing out to people who've already purchased the ultrasound
will be that initial bag that they use in that single flashing moment.
So I mean, I anticipate we'll probably only charge like
one to three Ultra token in order for them to do a flashing event.
So it allows people to prioritize, maybe they only want to program it one time and just make
it, that's their sleep ultrasound device and they don't do anything else.
But maybe somebody's like a more active user, they might switch it three times a week, so
there's a sleep one and then there's a focus one and then there's a couple different ones that
they might want to switch between and so every time you reflash an ultrasound they can be reflashed
10,000 times so it's not like they're ever going to expend that ability but it does it does come with a
slight you know there's a
There's a small fee involved with the actual KASPA network that needs to be, you know, paid in some way.
So, yeah, that's kind of how we'll...
Yeah.
So you're thinking ultra, right.
I see.
Ultra token.
Interesting.
Very, very cool.
I think we have covered the Dow part really well.
I think, you know, perhaps we didn't even cover these bits in a podcast.
Yeah.
But, well, thank you.
Anyone else, I guess, have any specific questions?
We've, I just saw Kata dropped off.
Maybe she'll come back because she had very specific question around consciousness,
which we want to get into soon.
But anyone else wanted to ask any questions to specific question around the Tao
or Ultra token or governance side to Stirling.
Please come up and or just type the question on the chat.
If you have any specific thing.
While we're waiting, hey, Christina, you're still here?
Hello, I don't think she is.
Hey, Christina, you're still here?
I think she's on a delay of like probably 10 seconds.
Yes, I am.
I am.
I'm just very laggy.
Yes.
She's on a delay of like probably 10 seconds.
Yes, I am.
Cool.
Okay, cool.
I actually would be happy to...
kind of shift into the consciousness question about the microbiome that Katja had.
Is that cool if we...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was going to say, I think unfortunately Katta dropped off, but we can
share with her or she might join us.
But yeah, I just wanted to give everyone a chance to ask if they had a specific question.
But if not, we can certainly move...
to the consciousness you know topic because that's perhaps the most exciting topic
just for every because it touches everyone even if you're not in Kaspar you know it still
touches you and that's why perhaps Katta came up because that's the right most
exciting topic just for every because it touches everyone even if you're not
in Kaspar you know it still touches you and that
Yeah. Yeah, so I wanted just to kind of refresh the question from Kachia, it was about the microbiome.
And my, I guess my primary stance would be that I think that the microbiome in your gut is experiencing a conscious flow in some way.
It's very likely that these kind of colonies of microbiome in your gut, that they have a shared conscious experience.
I mean, you could even say that they have kind of a shared mind and that they're doing things in a similar direction.
And they do what's best for the colony as a whole.
this can be good or bad. So if you have like a candida, which is a common gut condition that people really struggle with and suffer from, that's still a microbiome situation. And it sort of exerts a weird parasitic
host relationship where the candida is trying to keep you it's it's it wants to take energy for itself
the candida is aggressive but it also does it just to the degree where it won't kill you quickly
but it will keep you almost like at a hair's breath of being a non-functional so you're less
likely to fix it so that's its survival function
And I would say not to anthem, not in an attempt to just wildly anthropomorphize everything around me, right?
Or in this in this space.
I'm not saying like, oh, they, you know, they read books and they have their own Einstein and they're, you know, super intelligent.
I don't think it's like that.
But yeah, I mean, I think there's definitely an exertion of a consciousness from these, the microbiome.
And so, yeah, managing that.
is really important for sure.
Yeah, so that that'd be my kind of like stance on the microbiome.
On the microbiome.
And I think, um,
Again, it would have been awesome if we had Katya.
But guys, again, if you guys want to come up and ask anything to Sterling, please do come up.
But Sterling, just for the sake of everyone, you know, perhaps not everyone has seen the content that we put it out there yesterday.
How do you define consciousness?
Because that's the, as I said, that's the exciting topic.
And, you know, I know one of the comments, I think, on your ex, someone said, like, jokingly to you that you're an expert.
And from my perspective, you know, from my perspective, you are, you are working in the field perhaps more than I am.
So that's why I think it would be good to hear from you.
How do you define consciousness without confusing people?
Well, I actually have the benefit now of having been able to review that the part of the conversation we had where I did specifically outline what consciousness is.
And I think it took me about three minutes to do.
So, um,
I guess what the core good though it was very good yeah yeah yeah and I've done it you know yeah and I think that's the that's where the the kind of the expert thing comes in is trying to
yeah predict where people will misunderstand it so that's probably why it's helpful to take that extra time it's a big subject you know people have been trying to define consciousness for all of human history
to some degree in their own way.
So it's not like, yeah, I wouldn't sit like,
I need the five-word answer.
But yeah, I mean, if I could try it even faster,
it would be that we all know about quantum mechanics.
So quantum mechanics indicates that there's uncertainty
at the smallest scale of reality.
We don't always know where the electron is in an atom.
And so there's indeterminacy there.
So what but there is ultimately over time it has to be somewhere in order for it to do something in in the system, right?
So an electron has to be expelled from an orbital of an atom at some point in time.
We don't know where it was before, but there's an objective moment.
There's an objective event that does happen.
at some point in time.
So it's that shifting from the quantum of
indeterminacy of not knowing exactly where the electron is to that objective state collapse to okay the the electron is actually here and it's being ejected and now you have a photon or you have an electron or a beta particle shooting out of a uranium or something like that every time that there's a there's an objective moment of objective reality happening that's an opportunity for a moment of consciousness
And so at the small scale, if you just think of random particles doing this all the time,
you could say that they all have some proto-consciousness.
They have the opportunity for consciousness.
Just like with, okay, so gravity, for instance, right?
The sun has the most gravity.
The earth has less gravity than that.
But a grain of sand floating through space still does have gravity.
So there's still gravity between all three things.
But what makes it unique?
What's unique about the sun's gravity versus a single grain of sand floating in space?
The sun is just a lot more of that put together.
So consciousness in our human context indicates that humans clearly have some degree of consciousness that's more coherent in one place than other things.
Consciousness can be happening all over the place, but human minds and biology, and even, you know, even a bacterium or a virus has still the same mechanisms of harnessing moments of consciousness.
And it's the same kind of consciousness.
It's just that humans obviously have more of a grasp over it.
So, yeah, that's kind of my explanation of consciousness is a little shorter.
Yeah, so this this is based on the orc-oa theory, right, which is the base of your
explanation of consciousness.
Just quickly, though, like I know quantum physics is a weird topic for a lot of people,
perhaps even including the scientific community.
You know, the thing you mentioned, right, because...
You know, I think if you understand, you know, if you understand the slit experiment, you know, that was done early days of quantum mechanics, you will perhaps start to caution everything, right?
And as you mentioned, right, the electrons specifically, right?
Just the question they're selling, you know, we've, as humanity, we've never been able to actually...
capture electron, right?
Like we know electron exists in this wave function.
Sorry guys, yeah, just quickly.
We are going into more of a scientific realm here.
But yeah, so humanity has never been able to actually measure and weigh electron, right?
Because electron never exists as a particle, it's a wave function, right?
So it's the part of the electron we see when the observer comes in, right?
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And is it is it true that we have never actually measured like Sean?
Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's that's kind of the there's a measurement problem in in quantum physics, which is it's yeah, it's difficult to measure particles that are at that level.
It's really a problem of the equipment that we have available because once you start to get into like a single atom as the tip of your measuring device, the actual measuring instrument is also undergoing its own quantum.
mechanics as well.
So the superposition, right?
They get into the superposition off.
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
So it's difficult to use an imprecise measuring device to measure an imprecise subject.
So, yeah, that causes some issues.
Right.
It is the really fundamental issues.
I see.
Yeah.
So now, okay, I think we broadly defined consciousness, but it didn't really help Katya's
question, which is she was saying, right, she wanted to know that consciousness is all created
out of brain and its function of the body.
But as we sort of briefly touched this topic on the podcast itself, according to the orc-or,
It's inferred in the old core, and as you mentioned, you know, Stuart talks about it a little bit,
infers it, perhaps, as you put it, that consciousness could be an outside phenomenon, right?
Did I get it right, or is it not how you put it?
I don't know.
I see that argument.
I got to, there's a big.
I think it was like 16,000 impressions from yesterday.
Somebody posted a clip that said,
what if your brain isn't the ultimate source of consciousness?
And what if your brain is more like an antenna that receives consciousness from somewhere else?
And so that's there,
you know,
this kind of question,
right?
And I actually,
I actually asked,
I was like,
I've seen this come up now from about five different completely unconnected influencers on Twitter over the last month.
Who is, who specifically is originating this specific phrasing?
Because it's very specific.
It's the, the brain is just an antenna receiving consciousness from somewhere else.
I don't necessarily believe that at all.
I don't think that that's happening because then you'd have to say, well, well, who's generate?
Where's the consciousness being generated?
Yeah.
Where's the.
Yeah.
If you follow that.
Yeah.
You know, again, you know, another meta lesson for people, which I, I've always benefited from, hopefully it's helpful, is this idea of, you know, we're having a conversation.
Yeah.
Certainly, there's a level of persuasion being attempted, right?
If I'm trying to help someone see it from my perspective, oftentimes I found that like metaphors are not helpful or thinking in analogies.
So if I say like, okay, the brain's like an antenna and it has radios and there's, you know, waves going through the air and there's a transceiver sending the consciousness.
Right.
It's like a radio.
Right?
So that is, that's actually thinking through analogy.
And I actually find those are pretty, that's a pretty weak way to see the world.
It, it, because it's not that.
It's the brain isn't like it.
It's not like a radio.
It's a unique thing.
But do you think they're trying to, do you think they're trying to, over simplified?
Just before, you know, just because maybe they're trying to just get the views going on their channel because, you know, those type of the...
To be honest, it's not just this topic, right?
I think most of the topics, people, especially on the social media, trying to oversimplify things so that they get more shares, more retweets, more, you know, on every platform.
Do you think it could be just as simple as that reason?
Yeah, I mean...
For that particular framing, it seems like, and I'm a person who I actually had the benefit of not being a hardcore academic and that I also got to run a business.
And so I had to understand marketing and funnels and, you know, goal, like all this kind of stuff with marketing is how do you take someone from point A to point B?
And so there's this idea, you know, we talk about someone having tunnel vision.
I learned from some of the great marketers in the country this idea called funnel vision.
So it's like it's like the sales funnel.
You know, you have 100 people at the front and you end up with three paying customers at the end.
And you take them through like an email process or whatever or phone call or whatever it is.
So what I see is the is there's a it's a funnel.
And I'm wondering what is the end of that funnel for people, right?
If you take the simplified perspective of the brain is a radio and the consciousness isn't happening in your brain.
It's happening somewhere else.
That's a statement that's attempting to...
make a claim. It could be measurable. It should be measurable. It might not be. But yeah.
Yeah. But also it's um it's there's a there are funnels that exist that are not monetary
and they're not monetary at first. And so I just do wonder that
you know because I know how these influencers work on the big side the big spiritual ones the
quantum woo-woo guys so I know what a funnel looks like and this just this just for me
screams funnel yeah for something um and so that's how I see it
We set the narrative.
We know on the financial side, there's a lot of that happens where it's not about the end of the funnel, someone's going to get some customer.
It's just a resetting the narrative for the average person.
And that's very, very true on the security side and crypto also these days.
Where there is a wave of influencers.
We'll start to talk about a topic.
and then you get to know that they were pumping a coin or they were dumping a coin right
and they do it together because they have an opposite trade so while you're listening and
you're acting the same way they're taking an opposite position as you are so obviously not not
everything could be you know linked to funnel but who knows right the narratives that that go around
these days um
and who's honest, who's not, who knows.
It's hard to, hard to know.
But just coming back to the topic, I guess.
So, so what is the, I guess you define the, you define the consciousness briefly.
How would you describe the orc theory, which is what your basis for consciousness is based on?
Yeah, I mean, I would say my...
My framework is trying to stay as close to Orcawar as possible to the best of my ability to understand it.
So it is really, yeah, I mean, if you were going to put the worst possible stamp on it, it'd be as much of a parroting, mimicking of what Orcawar says.
Yeah.
And yeah, I don't have the purview of like, I'm not a, I'm not a Nobel award-winning physicist like Penrose.
And Stuart Hamroff is now in his 70s, so he's been around a lot longer than I am.
And he works in anesthesia.
Not quite yet.
Not yet, right, still.
Over time, yes.
But, yeah, I mean, I think in early stages of understanding an idea, it can be really good to,
to just try to understand what you're building on in the first place.
So, yeah, definitely I think I'm building over my lifetime.
We'll hopefully build better frameworks that straddle on top of the Orkawar theory.
One of I did actually create a theory.
I have published it, and it's actually looking at the,
the vagus nerve itself as a, it, if, so Orcawar, its primary method or focal point is microtubule consciousness.
Like, microtubules probably do hold consciousness.
Yeah.
Or like, not all consciousness, but they do have consciousness in there.
And so in studying the vagus nerve for some of my work in ultrasound, I found that the vagus nerve has a ton of microtubules and the exact orientations and density required for consciousness to coherently emerge.
So there could be something to argue that the vagus nerve itself, having the same.
conditions that that can allow you to say, okay, the brain has consciousness, that the vagus nerve itself probably also does have its own consciousness.
And it's probably maybe most of the time just outside of our conscious, meaning our, meaning if I think of myself as a collection of different systems, my heart, my vagus nerve, my brain, different kinds of things, that they're working together.
Right.
to accomplish kind of a seamless outcome, which is to survive and to feel good and to avoid pain.
Those are kind of fundamental rules of the system.
And I would say my, yeah, if you study the vagus nerve, you go, this thing seems like it's a separate part of somebody.
Sometimes it works for you. Sometimes it works against you. Like addictions, for instance, like somebody's addicted to food.
And they can see themselves in the mirror getting fatter and fatter, but they can't stop themselves.
And the feeling of hunger just gnaws at them all day.
That's not coming from their brain.
That's coming from their vagus nerve, factually speaking, because if you cut, like if you cut the vagus nerve, you all of a sudden lose your hunger.
Yeah.
So, you know, obviously you'd naturally go, okay, well, probably the Vegas nerve has something to do with these sensations of hunger.
So in GLP, one agonist like Ozympic work directly on the Vegas nerve and
they have measurable effects.
So I think, yeah, my building on Orcawar is that is looking at the vagus nervous, actually probably conscious.
And at some moments when you're in your most, like, meditative state, when you're most calm,
is when you're most experiencing the shared consciousness of your vagus nerve.
When you're in fear and you're super anxious is the time where you're where you're most not connected to the vagus nerve.
And you oftentimes see people develop digestive disorders because they've been a chronic anxiety for so many years.
So there's something to say for that.
that's supported your research and theory as well yeah yeah I think after your
after I started following your work I started to read up on I I personally didn't
didn't know about the Vegas nerve before though this is not a new knowledge right
it's been it's been written like there's so much been written but personally
when I got exposed to your work I started looking at the Vegas nerve and
man it blew my mind that this
this nerve, you know, this nerve goes through pretty much all of the body from the front, right, all the organs that goes through.
And it regulates so much of our functioning in the body, right, or feeling the qualia, as we call it, right?
Your experience, as you're putting it.
And it's beautiful.
And so this is part of your work, right, that you're trying to work on this stimulating the vagus nerve to help people with certain diseases.
So what exactly happens when you're trying to over-stimulate the vagus nerves?
When you're stimulating it or overstimulating it?
Uh, both actually, because stimulating is just a normal way of things, right?
In the body, right, the stimulation will happen anyways, right?
Uh, for most people.
But what happens when you over-stimulated, overclock it as you put it?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I've had experiences with, like, over-clocking or over-stimulating the vagus nerve.
Um, two, two moments come out.
One, one.
I stimulated my Vegas nerve in Palo Alto with a very large commercial system that costs about $35,000 that can do really like
laser-like precise.
Wait, you did it yourself?
I did it on myself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because I worked in California and I worked under a founder who had access to about $2 million
in spare capital and he's just like, whatever you guys want as the engineers, I'll buy it.
We put in beds for two systems.
One cost $35,000.
The other cost $250,000.
So I've been able to use
some really advanced
ultrasound technology
but the one that i used in this that had a really profound experience was stimulating with 35 000
system right on my neck and holding it right on my vagus nerve and i could feel this where the
stimulation actually was so i know i know very well anatomically where the vagus nerve is and i know
what the effects are with just the simple ultrasound yeah so
This basically kicked me into an instantaneous experience of non-dual consciousness awareness,
where there's no separation between the present moment and yourself.
It feels like you're, it's like what they described going to a 10-day meditation retreat
or sitting in a cave.
It's like this like advanced type of meditation that you can get.
But this took, this.
This was a 10 seconds of stimulating the vagus nerve with this ultrasound.
And it was a higher intensities as well, very focused.
And all internal thinking stopped.
It seized completely.
I didn't have an internal dialogue.
It felt like I shifted something tremendously in my body.
And I felt just at peace and just I was hyper aware of all the sounds, all the
visual information coming in and I was just almost I felt frozen in time
it was very profound experience this is in 2020 and
I was there for about, I'd say, solidly for about three and a half minutes, which for most people who meditate can't get out of their thinking mind for maybe more than like 10 seconds, 30 seconds.
Yeah, it's very short duration.
Three and a half minutes.
This lasted for three and a half minutes.
And so very profound, very powerful, very repeatable.
if you know where to go and if you have the right equipment and the frequency.
So the frequency had to be dialed in.
And so I chose the frequency for it based on prior experience.
And yeah, so that was what I now...
That's crazy. That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's a great story.
Yeah.
So what I now think I experienced was that I so overstimulated the vagus nerve that it basically over-
It got too, the vagus nerve was too loud and it overcrowded my, my, what I think is my main consciousness, which is my brain, my prefrontal cortex and the whole brain system.
And I actually shifted consciousness into the vagus system, the parasympathetic rest and relax.
So it's like shifting your, your center of consciousness down into the body to a degree.
But I'm still seeing out of my eyes and hearing out of my ears.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it was almost as if I was the vagus nerve monitoring my own body.
So I had a shift of consciousness.
Yeah.
That is mental.
Like, yeah.
Yeah, very, very profound feelings.
Yeah, I'm still trying to process this.
That is, I guess, can you get the same feeling with a handheld device, the US 200 or something similar, or you have to sort of have to buy this $30,000, $35,000 device?
Yeah, you can get it to a degree with the US 2000, but it's the power output and the focus of the US 2000 isn't there to just be able to put it on your neck for 10 seconds and get the effect.
What I found is that you have to help, you have to help the process.
So one of the best ways to help stimulate your vagus nervous through breathing is,
And so, you know, with a $35,000 system, I just had to sit down, place the ultrasound,
and press the button and do nothing.
And it was there.
With the US 2000, what I encourage people to do, and I have a video on my Ultraschool.com
page and in my Facebook group or in the school group that shows you exactly like, to get
that experience, here's what you need to do.
And you essentially just need to do Wimhoff breathing.
which is like and then holding your breath and squeezing and hold the ultrasound in that same spot right on the neck on the left side of the neck yeah and you can get not only like you can get some insane effects from that too so you can you can instance over stimulate your vagus nerve but the effect of overstimulation of the vagus nerve is i would say takes you into a very spiritual realm of existence
The first time I ever did that back in 2017, I've written about this a lot, was I seemed to
have had some kind of an out-of-body experience from this where my eyes were open.
I was laying down and doing ultrasound and doing the breathing.
And then my vision went white.
So I was seeing white out of my eyes.
Like I was, it felt like I was in a room of pure white with little grid lines, like a little
matrix lines of white.
And then that lasted for a few seconds.
And then I popped through.
Yeah, I know this sounds crazy, but like, you know, yes, I didn't want to believe it when it happened.
But it's been so many years.
I'm like, I'll just share the story.
You know, it happened.
I'm not making, I'm not making factual claims about what that meant.
But I'm just relaying my experience of when I put ultrasound on my neck and I did Wimhoff breathing at the same time.
Something really experientially happened.
And I'm not making it up.
It happened.
Yeah.
And it was weird and I was scared.
But I saw my mind went to what looked like New York Central Park.
Like I was visually seeing New York Central Park, daytime, summertime, trees, forest people.
I could hear the traffic in the background.
I could see the cityscape.
And I was just kind of like sitting on a big rock or something like that or like floating in the middle park.
It was just like right there with this one perspective, this point of view.
And that lasted for it felt like three minutes, but only at most like 45 seconds had actually passed in terms of real time.
So something happened.
I don't know what that was.
It could have been I was remote viewing suddenly.
I could have hallucinated it.
Any number of things that have happened.
But that came from still in the database.
So yeah, all that is to say is I've repeated that now with close to a thousand people
because I said, I've got to try this on other people, see if they want to try it and they do.
And I've had very similar reports of very out of mind types of experiences from that.
So there's something to do it.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
There's something there.
I think, you know, that leads me to sort of two things.
One, Ervin, he asked, I don't know if he's around still, no, I can't see him, but he asked,
early on in the call, I would like to test it.
So where can people go?
Like, do they need to?
for this ultrasound device, can they buy it in their own countries?
Or is it specific to the device only they need to buy from yourself?
Sorry, I didn't realize that I'd muted myself.
Yeah, so you can buy the ultrasound from, there's two U.S. distributors here in the U.S.
And there are international distributors as well.
The one that I recommend is called tensprose.com.
And there's another one called U.S. MedRehab.com.
And they sell these FDA-approved commercial ultrasound systems.
the US 2000 second edition, and it's about $150.
And that's the one that that is the best off the shelf ultrasound that you can buy.
When I was working with Stuart Hammeroff, the systems we sold were $5 to $10,000 to $15,000 and very much made for researching ultrasound.
So that's not what I'm selling here.
And I don't sell the ultrasound 2000.
But it is exactly the same frequency and intensity that we use.
And so they work the same way.
So I was like, oh, wow.
Like, that's how coincidentally convenient that, you know,
nobody has to spend $35,000 and they can get that experience of ultrasound.
The same.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So why these, I mean, one of the questions I was thinking,
why do this hardware exist today?
Like, because this is.
You know, the discussion we're having is to new revelation,
all the most people, right?
So, like, these devices exist today for the same purpose of stimulating microtubules,
or is it for design for a different purpose and now you're trying to repurpose then for a different purpose?
Yeah, definitely, I would say, designed for a different purpose, but repurpose.
It's the ultrasound, the US 2000 is that that's,
That's for, it's a physical therapy device.
So it's used for people who have like a back problem or muscle soreness or something like that.
It's like for sports medicine and or tennis elbow.
And so generally speaking, yeah, you'd put it on your elbow and you'd do ultrasound and you'd get stimulation.
And it would help repair the issue.
Yeah.
So that's what it's useful.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I see.
But you've found that because the same frequency you're using now,
anyone can use the devices.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, exactly. Because I know about ultrasound intensity, you can measure it and you can, there's a data sheet on the device. And I'm like, wow, that's actually exactly the same intensity that we used in our studies. And it's the same frequency. And I've measured it. And it's so I'm like, wow, I mean, I could never compete at $150 with anything that I produced because of, you know, producing the US is so expensive.
So, yeah, it's a very convenient tool that we have access to.
Had that not, had that device never existed, I don't think I'd be able to do what I'm doing currently.
We're really just, you know, luck of the draw kind of thing, that there's a device link.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Hey, vitamin.
combe asked Sterling, could you paste?
Tell them to buy these ultra sound devices, those two companies you mentioned.
Yeah, so tenspros.com and then the US, which is like United States or US Med, MED, Rehab, R-E-H-A-B-B-com.
So there's a two distributors in the U.S.
And they sell brand new ultrasounds.
If you're outside of the United States,
you can find them from different distributors.
Like we have a person in the Ultraschool from Italy,
and we were able to find him a direct distributor from Italy
that sells the exact same device.
So yeah.
That's awesome.
Look, Sterling, I want to wrap this up,
but I've already taken an hour and a half of your time.
And I do appreciate it.
It's very early for you in the morning.
I do want to, you know, I do appreciate, I'm just going to ask, I guess, if anyone from the community who are still here, what are come up?
You know, by writing or directly just talking about around or unconsciousness or, you know, the topic.
If you have any questions, please, please just send us out.
Or just come up.
I think I've sent in ways to everyone.
So if you like, there's a chance to come up now.
But anything specific, I think while we're waiting,
anything specifically you want to cover off
while we're trying to wrap this up,
anything that you didn't mention in the space
that perhaps you wanted to mention or anything that we've seen,
recent has happened that got too excited.
Yeah, I guess it would be, I kind of mentioned it in passing,
but we do have an Alzheimer's study that is about to launch,
and we'll be using the US 2000.
So if you or somebody that you know is struggling with dementia or Alzheimer's, like a neurodegenerative disease, and you want to be part of an institutional study on the effects of ultrasound and reversing memory loss, consciousness loss, loss of verbal speaking ability, which is very common in Alzheimer's,
then yeah, I would encourage you to follow me here on X,
and I'll be posting the survey and the application for that in the very near future.
So, yeah, I mean, definitely, I think that's the most important thing that I'm working on currently.
No, such a big thing, but also such a call, we would definitely ensure that with the community.
If they want to participate or if they have someone.
Thank you. I've got Burr here. Hey, how are you?
Hey, Burling. A lot of this is low from here. Can you guys hear it?
I can't hear you properly. Yeah, Burr, you have to come close to the microphone.
How about now?
Yeah, that's better.
Better.
Yep.
Sterling, a lot of this was over my have a conscious
from the science perspective,
but I do appreciate your approach to,
you know,
trying to run a proper business
and mixing that kind of D-Fi central.
It's one of the things that we were struggling with is,
you know,
the adulting,
of taking a real business, something that you're passionate about,
and trying to mix in that defy and the dunas and how you do it.
So I'm definitely going to give you a follow here.
And I'd love to maybe explore this with you a little bit further.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I love it.
Yeah, it is challenging.
I mean, it's a translational challenge, I think.
It's, I feel, I feel though I'm well poised to attempt it.
One quick, one quick all thing I'll say is that when I was working in the vagus nerve space, so ultrasound can stimulate the vagus nerve as I spoke about.
And I really wanted to pursue that.
And so what I realized was it wasn't just going to come down to me selling an ultrasound to people that there's a, there's an aspect of coaching that is required when it comes to working with someone and their vagus nerve.
But I didn't, you know, I didn't take any college courses on how to coach people or anything like that.
So I was like, well, I'm, I kind of need to, I need to learn from somebody.
So what I did is I signed up for paid coaching from people who worked in coaching in the weight loss industry.
So people who were like fitness coaches.
And I found that they had a real grasp on how do you take someone who might be out of shape and wants to get in shape and convert them into a, you know, a client and actually get them the results that they're there for.
And, you know, that's a lot of work.
There's a lot of human time spent.
Right.
But I was like, I want to learn this.
But in the real time, I had to take what they were saying about, okay, you know, you're like a sales script might be, okay, you're 10 pounds overweight.
You want to lose 10 pounds.
Let's talk about it.
I had to convert that in real time to, okay, you've got a vagus nerve issue, disautonomia.
you're stressed, you know, you have digestive disorder and you want to not have that.
And here's how something like vagus nerve stimulation could actually help.
So I think something about my mind is able to like convert in real time,
something that's from a field that's not exactly related, but it's close enough.
And you can directly translate into a successful model.
And so I did that with Vegas nerve stimulation. And I'm hopeful that that same methodology
that I use there can be translated into this kind of like Dow, D-Sy cryptification of ultrasound research.
So that's my hope. I think we're doing okay. So we'll see. You know, time will tell.
Yeah, I'll shoot you a message. I just followed you. And if you had some time, I'd love to
express some of those kinds of because, you know, we have, I think, the same problems, and I think
we're trying to approach it roughly from the same solution. You know, what we're doing to
consider in the space isn't about me, but it's one of those things that we struggle with
because, you know, I just view that as, you know, almost marketing dollars, sales dollars
on the line item. You know, how do we coach T.
teach, train, bring new ideas, maybe a legacy system.
Yeah, no, I'd love to talk.
Yeah, definitely love to have a chat for sure.
Yes, and just to add a plug here,
I think for Burr, Selling, Burr is a friend,
of the show. So I think, do, do, do have time. Do talk to him. Please do talk to him.
I just wanted to add that plug. But, um, still, look, um, you know, really, really,
Really nice to have you here.
And amazing chat, as always, like taking time,
third time we've spoken.
And I think we'll be, I'm sure we'll be talking more.
But I just want to wrap this up here.
And I just wanted to thank you.
Just want to thank you and thanks everyone for being here.
Typically, this part is done like Christina.
But even if she's not here, I wanted to thank everyone
for being here and listen to myself and yourself.
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been a great two conversations that we've had now.
I think we've covered a lot of pretty important stuff. So thank you for the opportunity.
I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, thanks, Sterling. And thanks, everyone. Cheers. Have a good one, yeah.
See, yeah. Cheers. Thanks, everybody. See yeah.
