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Yield Integrative Pools ft. Neptune x Drop x Astroport
Recorded: April 22, 2025 Duration: 0:56:31Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, key players from the Cosmos ecosystem highlighted significant developments including the launch of Drop's liquid-staking protocol, the upcoming deInit token, and the successful Droplets campaign, which collectively showcase a robust growth trajectory and innovative strategies in DeFi.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Hello.
Please give a thumbs up if you can hear me fine.
I am joining on a computer today.
Hey, Miche.
Hey, Andre.
Nice to see you guys.
Nice.
Validated.
Enterprise Linux.
That's nice.
I'm running Manjaro. Chase, so you can make me co-host and then we'll invite Gian and Andre to the stage
all right um good andre nice to see you hey what up well what up well BTC is up that's what's up
stock to flow model
stock to flow I pray to the stuck to flow gods.
Yeah.
Plan B already made a tweet about it. So.
Well, thank you guys for, um, I didn't know.
Yeah.
I was going to say, I did not know you can actually, um, be a speaker on, on the desktop.
I think before it wasn't possible.
Yeah. Um, I'm not sure.
I know that on Linux,
the browser runs,
it's like an application itself.
So maybe that's why.
I don't know how it is on Microsoft or Mac.
Got it. because yeah definitely
the uh micro quality would be way better unless for me at least instead of the airpods but yeah
you sound pretty good though no worries nice yeah um cool well um let, let me share the link around a bit as well. I think Stonkey should be joining. We'll have some other people from our team joining as well.
Okay. So I'm based in Europe.
Okay.
9 o'clock for us right now.
Most of the Neptune team is based in Vancouver.
I think it's around noon for them.
I know Drop is pretty much distributed globally.
How is it for Astroport?
Yeah, Astroport?
Yeah, Astroport is mainly Europe.
We do have some people like a little bit all over, but yeah, the main like time zone
that we work on generally is Europe.
Gotcha.
Nice.
So this basis will be recorded and we'll talk about the teams. We'll talk
about some of the recent developments of each team respectively. And then we'll talk about
how Drop and Neptune are coming together on Astroport um so i want to start off with andre um andre you
just if you want to give maybe like a brief overview of what you do at astroport um and
yeah um how long you've been with astroport um and just kind of a general overview of yourself
yeah so basically uh i joined astroport pretty much since the inception uh it was pretty much
around like teradays the good one the good old times um so been through a lot and been through pretty much everything at AstroPort.
I joined just as a developer, a contributor,
basically still a developer contributor,
but also in a lead capacity leading the project.
And yeah, that's a little bit about me.
Thank you. All right. Yeah. I mean, those were good days. I
remember those days fondly. I even remember the participating
in the, I think it was a log drop for Astroport. Yeah. Was
Yeah, the vampire attack that we did on TerraSwap.
it the vampire attack that we did on TerraSwap?
Yeah, those were wild days.
Micha, if you want to do the same for Drop, and maybe your background coming from the P2P crew.
So you spoiled all of it. Yes, I'm meeting. I used to be a P2P crew and now I'm a good
job. This is a longer version. P2P is one of the product level as well as what we used to call product teams, which is like a team that takes care of our given ecosystem on the validated site. because so i joined this uh juncture in 2021 and p2p was pretty big by then so we were across
maybe 30 different chains at that point and um yeah it was the wild wild period of growth
everywhere first i had to figure out how tailing works then i had to figure out a ton of Cosmos chains, then I realized that
the filmmakers have to vote on all the proposals. And it was really fun because the Terra proposals
were very diverse for the state. So there was some interesting technology some days, and then there would be something like, oh, should we slap our ads on the stadium?
The builders had to vote for all of this. So, yeah, good old days. And yeah, so I was there until
late 2023, and then basically wanted to focus on my favorite ecosystem. And we started
Drop, which was in fact skipping a couple of steps and a continuation of Light on Terra spiritually, not technically really, but yeah, I think the light on terror spirit remains,
let's say, and we thought it was a huge opportunity because the interchain space is very successful,
and in fact there's a lot of liquidity in the interchain, Although when you look individually at every chain, they might seem small. But collectively they all have a lot of liquidity that can be unlocked for DeFi.
And that's essentially the purpose of liquidity. That's what we're doing at Drop. Drop was
launched in August 2024. I'm one of Drop's co-founders. My co-founder, Kai, actually, he was a product manager in
Light Ontario's team. So he knows all the intricacies of operating at 10 billion liquid
staking protocol. And yeah, now we're live with three different assets, and we're launching the fourth asset in a
couple of days, hopefully.
And I think we just became the biggest liquid-staking protocol in the interchain by TVL, if you
trust Defy Llama, which is probably quite the worst of this kind of stuff.
Yeah, so pretty happy about the journey, to be honest.
And yeah, thanks for having me on this page.
Thank you, that was a really good intro.
Yeah, and congratulations on the milestone.
You know, the LSD milestone.
I think we can definitely trust DeFi Llama on that part.
Yeah.
And I'm wondering, so the new LST that is launching,
I think is deInit, right?
We call it deInit.
So it's important to stress the difference.
I can get into this in a second, but yeah, it's gonna be deinit. So it's important to stress the difference. I can get into this in a second,
but yeah, that's gonna be DEinit.
Yeah.
Yeah, we will definitely get into the weeds of that
because that's a bit of a special baby.
But before we go there,
I wanna bring the mic to Neptune. So joining with the Neptune account today is Chase.
Chase, you want to give an intro? Hey guys, good to be here. Yeah, I'm Chase. I was one of the first
hires with Neptune and then lived through the Terra crash like we all did. And Neptune was completely rebuilt after that
from a very different protocol to a lending market
like it is today.
And yeah, my role kind of started in the marketing side
and just kind of became a little more multifaceted
as most startups are.
And yeah, we've made a lot of progress with neptune over the last
i think we've only been live on mainnet for a year and year and three months and uh
very excited to be talking about the uh the pools that we've put together with flip drop on astropore
here me too um and yeah let's segue to Astro. So I've been scouting the X profiles of you guys to prepare the spaces.
And there's one thing that stuck out to me on Astro, which was the governance proposal 134, deploying duality, well, a PCL integration
with duality. And I was like, well, does that mean, so for the listeners, duality is,
if I understand correctly, an on-chain module catering towards perp markets. So the PCL pools, the ads report.
Oh, I'm going to be corrected.
Yeah, sorry.
Yeah, it's an order book actually.
So similar to Helix.
Okay.
So it's an on-chain module serving as an order book?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And try and index basically.
And so they will be using
Astroport PCL pools as a liquidity provider?
It's more the other way around.
So basically we are, because think of
like generally an order book is like a market, right?
So the markets are always empty, right?
They are just a place where people can, it's a venue to trade.
So it's easier to think of, okay, I go to the market.
In this case, Astroport goes to the market and says,
here are the products that I have.
And I list them at prices that we basically,
in this case, our pools give out.
So basically, our pools will be placing the liquidity there.
And we've started this already with a trial pool.
It's Atom USDC.
We are seeing very, very good numbers
for a pool that only has 20k total liquidity.
We chose this on purpose, by the way,
because it's a manageable liquidity amount that
if something goes wrong, we can always replenish LPs. So far, we haven't had to do that,
but we are seeing nice numbers in volumes. So yeah, basically, instead of the pools just being
there waiting for swaps to go through them they are now actively
also posting liquidity onto the order book um so yeah that's um that's more uh how it works right
interesting um and that order book is being used by astroport itself? Like when I go and make a swap?
Yeah, so right now it isn't
because Astroport was built as a standalone AMM, right?
Not requiring any other venue to trade on.
But that's certainly something that we are working on,
which is making...
Basically, we want to get our swap interface more as an aggregator versus just swapping through our AMN.
And in this way, regardless of the venue you are on, in this case, more specifically Neutron,
regardless of the venues that have liquidity available,
the swap interface on
AstroPort will always give you the best possible amount out.
And this will include route splitting, which is something overdue for us.
Which, for example, right now, if you use SkipGo or IBCGo or IBC Fund, whatever new brand
it is now,
they already route through duality,
but they don't do any splitting.
So let's say there's pockets of liquidity on Ashboard and there's like some pockets of liquidity
on the order book.
It will only choose which best,
but in reality, let's say if you split your trade,
you could get a lot more by swapping on both sides.
So that's something either they will do it eventually, which would be nice, but we will certainly not be waiting and we will be implementing these on our side.
That's great to hear. One of our team members, Naller, is here in the room and he's very fond of route splitting. So I got to ask the question on his behalf, when is it coming?
That's great to hear.
There's a couple of things that we want to nail before we get to that point.
And this is more related to a possibility of some sort of AstroPort V2.
We are still finalizing a couple of the, let's say, rough edges around this.
But it will certainly be part of this V2 version rather than what we currently have.
And we are more like thinking of similar to Uniswap.
And if that happens, then we certainly need the route splinting
and a very good routing aggregation mechanism
because at that point, then you'll have a lot of pools,
v1 pools, which is what you currently see on Ashreport,
and then eventually these V2 pools
that we are thinking of bringing.
But yeah, I can't really tell you immediately.
I feel like we're getting some alpha, though.
I'm very happy to hear this
because, I mean, it's great to hear that Astroport is innovating there because it's happening on EVM.
Like Uniswap is, you know, it's a fast horse.
So, like, we need to catch up with Cosmos.
Yeah, definitely.
And one thing with Astroport is that we need to bear in mind,
Astroport was built, if you think about it, three years ago, right?
Obviously, we've kept on implementing new features and building it.
But a lot of the times, and we know these, any software developer knows this,
especially with contracts, smart contracts,
it is even harder to like really update everything
to the like, let's say, latest edge of the technology
and the functionalities we have available.
And there's like so many cool things we can actually do.
If we, from all the learnings that we've had
through all these years, we can build like a cleaner version of Astroport, be much more efficient and actually like, I can give you just one simple example.
We already had some integration already built for Elix on Injective.
And we are thinking of maybe trying that out,
like reviving it a little bit,
especially with all the learnings we already have with duality
and actually being live.
So we'll see how that goes.
But what I mean by this is like,
when you actually have to put liquidity on an order book,
it's when you actually,
when your brain really flips into, okay, a lot of the liquidity that's sitting on a pool is actually useless.
And what I mean by this is, most of the people that are aware and know about AMMs, a pool or an AMM is always a curve, right?
And the curve is always meaning whatever,
like liquidity is always available.
An order book is not really like that.
You can't go really to the infinite price
and get something out.
On a pool, you could theoretically.
But the reality is swaps aren't really happening
on that side of the curve.
They're always happening on the price, hopefully, right?
Because people want best price. They don't want to get wrecked. So what this means is,
in reality, let's say X, Y, K, maybe 10% of the liquidity is actually used for swaps, right?
That's the reality of the liquidity being used, which means there's so much more liquidity that's parked on the pool, not doing anything at all, right?
With stable swap, that's not really the case.
It's a little bit more.
And PCL also more because you concentrate liquidity.
But still, I would bet like more than 50% of the liquidity is not being used.
So one thing that could very easily be done,
especially for pools with USDC or other assets,
for example, any lending market generally gives you some sort of yield
when you lend your capital, right?
So a pool could easily get integrated with these markets
and basically lend out that kind of what I'm calling uses liquidity.
And that just increases like APY immediately for those LPs, right?
So this is something that is happening with Bunny.
Exactly.
Yeah, no, that's great.
Wow.
Yeah.
So you're doing this with AstroPort?
So we haven't done it yet, but the V2 version of AstroPort is really looking at all these inefficiencies and trying to think of, instead of thinking of AstroPort as an AMM, what we are more thinking about is AstroPort is democratizing market-making strategies.
And all of the pool types is what they are.
It's a strategy, right?
XYK is a strategy. PCL. It's a strategy, right? X, Y, K is a strategy.
PCL, stable swap are strategies, right?
And what we want to think of and people like use pools or vaults as different names.
I can find differences in them, but technically in the end, they are really the same.
They're all assets and they provide a strategy, a trading strategy. And they are doing that
to their LPs. So essentially
what we are
is that instead of thinking we are
an AMM, a DEX, we are a strategy
provider for people to
put their liquidity and then hopefully
that strategy makes them money.
And when we flip
that switch, instead of thinking of
pools, what we are thinking of, okay,
with these strategies or these vaults, these pools, how can we make these the most like
capital efficient plus what can make the most money to our users, right? And at the end of the day,
this kind of opened up my mind to thinking of all, pretty much a lot of the DeFi things are strategies to make money to their users.
All of them have different form factors, but any API product that gives you some sort of API, what they're doing is they're giving you a strategy for which you can put your capital in and make money.
And in the end, that's what we are.
So that's exactly what we are more shifting our focus and trying to really optimize as much as possible.
And this is an example that I gave.
Just lending USDC is very easy, simple, and you earn some good yield.
Great. Yeah, I'm taking notes.
And I think some of the people in the audience
are also taking notes, definitely.
Thank you for that insight.
That was really great.
And I'm really excited to see this play out on Cosmos.
It's just starting on EVM, on Bayes and Arbitrum.
To see it come to Cosmos already now is just really great. And it's also nice, like we've
been exporting a lot of technology that other ecosystems are only now kind of using. So it's nice to be able to take some back as well from them. I want to pivot to Drop.
And I know you guys have a home base on Neutron.
And I know Neutron recently did a Mercury upgrade,
which brought mostly faster block times.
Maybe you want to briefly touch on that.
How was it to do the upgrade
or any challenges um will it improve the products uh what's what's the outcome there
yeah it was really smooth to be honest um especially given the complexity of their grades, it went really, really well.
So for the context, Neutron used to be a chain that used shared security by Cosmos Hub.
And it was actually the first chain that started on shared security and now as they Newton graduated, they became their own L1. They
have a separate validator set that basically enables a bit more flexibility in terms of
how Newton manages the infrastructure. And for us, it was also an opportunity because now there's taking on Neutron and we were
in a pretty good position to launch the first LST on Neutron as well.
And in fact, it was, interestingly enough, it was used during this migration process. So, the whole idea of launching NLST and Neutron very early
was largely about kind of also bootstrapping some liquidity
in the DeFi ecosystem.
So, the DAFO was actually interested in having a lot of their NTRN position liquid, or like liquid
stakes with Drop. And for the chain to actually start, they kind of did this even before the
chain started. So Drop played this role in starting the chain, and from the first block, there was some dNTRN existing in the
ecosystem.
So, there are quite a few changes coming with it.
I think, generally speaking, yeah, you can think of it as radiation of sorts. And from our perspective, we were always excited about Muton
because it was one of the most interesting DeFi ecosystems in the space,
and it has a lot of unique infrastructure.
And for instance, one that makes Drop possible in first place
is the interchain, it comes to the interchain queries that our
smart contracts can interact with. So this is pretty unique. We wouldn't be able to deploy
DROP with its architecture on any other chain. And they're building quite a few pieces of the
infrastructure that enables this very efficient Tifa ecosystem.
So Andre was speaking about the reality which is an audiobook that now can be used by, for
instance, as support to enable these new strategies.
Actually, I think it's a very good way of thinking about all this stuff as just kind
of different strategies. I think that helps everyone to
think outside of these normal boxes of whatever AMMs, different types of AMMs are. It could
be actually many different things. And duality works really well with the enshrined oracles as well, which is, and maybe not entirely unique for Neutron,
but it is one of the few chains that has this kind of
per block oracle prices updates.
So if you put together an order book
that is a part of the chain and the oracles
that have their own block space
so that you can rely on per block price updates, then you can create some new strategies that basically can allocate
liquidity in the order book based on the recent price updates, let's say from Binance or from
whatever is kind of your best source of the price.
And that enables, again, to Andrzej's point, that's kind of theoretically
the optimal price of using liquidity, because you can put all your liquidity very, very close to
this price. And this is what they call supervolts, and that's another strategy of how you manage
liquidity. Actually, if you only have supervolts on the chain, then maybe that's not that great,
because you can run out of this liquidity, so you need the supervolts to work with something
else, and they would work with that support really well.
From our perspective, that's another thing that is very useful for us.
Because if you think about liquid assets, liquid state tokens specifically,
what do we need from the DeFi system? So there's this keyword liquid, and what makes an asset
liquid is essentially very efficient, like very efficient pairs on the exchanges. And
there are different sorts of pairs. So for us, what is interesting
is when, let's say, D-atom is paired with a correlated asset, such as N-atom, for instance,
or just atom. And so this liquidity is important. Then there is also use-dc liquidity, which
is hugely important. And if you make all this liquidity, all these pairs very efficient,
then your asset becomes more liquid. So, yeah, this is essentially what the order book gives us,
and the price updates from the oracles that are reliable per block are very important for that.
And going back to your question about what immigration gives us.
So, first of all, it gives us an opportunity to launch a new LST, which would be at the heart
of the ecosystem. The other thing is when you reduce the block time, if you think about how
this enshrined Oracle operates, so it gets the price, let's say, from finance or
from another centralized exchange, if it's the price for,
let's say, Atom, USDC pair, right? And the shorter your
block time, the more accurate your price becomes. And then
you can kind of rely more and more on this price
updates on the insurance Oracle. And if you kind of approximate this and make the block
time round, let's say, kind of closer to hundreds of milliseconds rather than seconds, then
you become basically as good as a centralized exchange in terms
of the efficiency of trading.
And I think that's been kind of a huge topic for all the DeFi, because DeFi is amazing,
because decentralized, which also has some inefficiencies just because decentralization
takes time.
Right.
And when you innovate this infrastructure,
let's say approaches, for instance, what Neutron is doing with the reduced value data set,
then you can start approximating the centralized exchange experience from the user perspective.
And this unlocks quite a few interesting things, of course. So, in short, all of these changes just make the DeFi ecosystem
more efficient. And in Cosmos, I think we've been kind of chasing this interesting problem of how
you make DeFi ecosystems that are still kind of relatively small compared to, for instance, Ethereum DeFi ecosystem or Solana
DeFi ecosystem now. How do you make them competitive in a sense? But when they become so efficient,
then this is what enables you to build something which is not just interesting for, let's say, the Atom folder because that is native for an Atom folder or for a tier folder.
The latest developments in the Nutrient ecosystem is a bit of a hidden gem in crypto. I don't think that it gets enough attention and love from the
community, but it's actually pretty fascinating. Cool, thank you for that. Yeah, so if I get it
right, it's only faster block times. It's the fact that you have this duality order book and then paired with block
to block oracle prices which which effectively means that something um i'm just a bit balling
here but something like hyper liquid uh would be possible on neutron right um yes or maybe yeah i
think that's a very good parallel yep. I actually want to maybe talk briefly about D-neutron or D-N-T-R-N.
I know you guys have been doing a great job with the Droplets campaign.
I think the Droplets campaign has been the most successful points program in definitely in the whole of cosmos um and yeah you guys are killing it um
now there's points for the neutron how's the campaign been going so far
uh it's been going really well uh we actually just started to be honest
so we always take it step by step when we launch the droplets
campaigns. So right now it's live on Astroboard and then it's going to extend into the other
venues. So the goal for this is always to kind of bootstrap your initial liquidity, and then that will allow you to start the
lazy market, and this is kind of how the whole DeFi flywheel really works. I just opened
what is available in S support for DNTRN, and we have around, I guess, eight million dollars liquidity.
So, yeah, going really well.
There are a few sources, so some of this is coming from the Newton DAO,
but there is more and more coming from whatever, like Newton holders,
larger and smaller ones.
So, yeah, I mean, the goal is achieved, definitely, in terms of having this liquidity.
Bootstraps and then Mars markets are going to launch very soon. And then, yeah, this is really where some interesting use cases will start popping up, let's say. For those of you that may be not familiar with the latest on Mars,
it was the landing protocol back in the Teradaze, and it has a very interesting mechanism of
cross-margin, cross-collateral groups markets as well, which was launched late last year.
across collateral burps markets as well now, which was launched late last year.
It actually also depends on the enshrined oracles to large extent, because it's
oracle-based burps, and you can use any type of collateral there to trade on
any pair. So for instance, what you can do, you can now use Deenterand as
collateral, and if you want to hold neutral, but you want to create delta
neutral exposure, you can also shorten it from the first, and then you have to just
use the fixed portion of what you're earning in staking yields, and you also get funding
rates.
Or you can just use the enterend for trading on your preferred pairs, which is also just more capital efficient.
Yeah, so this is coming next. And yeah, there will be also droplets for Mars users, of course.
And now I have to ask, so far droplets have not been deployed on Injective, but you know that
but you know that Neptune is really trying to get the deatomless going.
And I mean, we would love some droplets to come to Injective.
Sure.
Any chance we can make that work in the near future?
Oh, that's a good move.
Now I'm kind of forced to say yes. In principle, we're happy to do this.
So, the only thing that stops us from deploying droplets everywhere is just the sanity of our
development team. We want a lot of liquidity everywhere, and of course, droplets help a lot.
And we're happy to reward the users that are unlocking liquidity for the ecosystem.
So, the way we approach it is we have, let's say, a number of integrations that we want to keep reasonable.
And we started rotating them a little bit and prioritizing the ones that
are getting more usage, essentially. So, yeah, we'll see how it goes with the Neptune for
a little bit. And actually, Hydro deployments are a very good tool for that, because Hydro
helps us gauge the interest to certain defy positions, and then
if there is a lot of users that are willing to interact with once there is some initial liquidity,
if it instructs the users, then we're happy to deploy droplets and help them grow further.
That's the approach that we take. I won't promise anything just yet, but yeah, if it goes well, we're going to totally do that.
No, not expecting a promise at all.
Just a bit of banter.
Yeah, we have some KPIs we want to hit with the bull first for sure and grow it a bit more.
But we're very excited to continue the partnership.
I want to steer over to Neptune and briefly talk about why are LSTs so great for lending markets.
LSTs have been with us for a good four or five years-ish. Recently, they've been really taking off
on lending markets pretty much everywhere.
Why is this?
And why is the Atom a great fit for Neptune?
LSTs as collateral are definitely the most sought after.
You don't have to look too far for lending markets to see the breakdown of collaterals So it's kind of a, I mean,
everybody here, I'm sure the LST narrative has been going on long enough that we're all well
aware of this, but onboarding high quality LSTs is a big priority for us. But the liquidity has always been a concern. So anything we can do to help kind of bootstrap LST markets
so that they're safe to list as collateral
is a top priority for us to build it up,
not only to be safe,
but build up all of these other tools and systems around it
in order to re-peg the LST market back to its redemption value.
So there's a lot we're doing at Neptune looking at LSTs and pretty excited to expand more once
we have something built. We like to keep it a little quieter until something's actually done
or locked in. But we are working on some very exciting stuff for LSTs.
And in the coming weeks, maybe month, there should be a lot more shit. So I'll leave it off there.
But LSTs are incredibly important for lending markets, especially in the cosmos. And having and having the hydro program being able to bootstrap liquidity from both DATOM and our NATOM
pool it just makes perfect sense. You get the lending yield, you get the staking yield and you
get any other fees or incentives on the pool making it a pretty easy place for a liquidity provider to park their N-ATOM and D-ATOM.
And using pools like this, we could start to build up a solid liquidity base
that will be needed for a collateral listing in the future.
So it's always an issue with liquidity, though,
and I'm sure you guys have experienced this in every ecosystem that you are building into, but you need to have a solid amount of liquidity before it's safe to be used as a collateral.
You know, how this came about was we had a meeting with Neptune,
and people needed to take responsibility to grow a certain asset on Neptune.
And I think I got Solana first.
I was like, no, I want Atom because I've got a bit of Atom sitting around idle.
And I'd be using drop i'd be using the atom um but obviously i'm using neptune so you know i wanted to be able to use my my atom
on neptune um so so i managed to get uh responsibility for the atom listing and then
i met with drop with with milos which was a really good meeting um and just a bit exploring what we can do together uh luckily for us adam has
pretty good liquidity on helix already which makes it a lot easier to list as a collateral asset
and from there on we yeah we explored how to kind of kickstart the flywheel. And hydro has been
instrumental in seeding the liquidity. We were able to see a good 50k of liquidity, which is
sitting there very nicely there. And I want to thank DROP as well for kind of committing to bidding on that liquidity through the Hydro program.
And yeah, it's going well. We have some Astro rewards on it as well.
So we're trying to grow this liquidity and Astro has some great voting mechanics for routing Astro incentives.
So we're using that, leveraging that to put the incentives on the pool.
And kind of one of the key things about Neptune is the composability.
And we have this thing called land receipt tokens, which a lot of people don't understand it initially
because you don't often see these
in lending market applications.
But essentially it is a bit like a liquid staking token,
but it's a liquid lending token
in a sense that for any liquid staking token,
you lock up the tokens, you secure the network, and in return,
you get a liquid token that you can use in DeFi. And so with Neptune is you lock in the token,
you provide lending liquidity. So you secure the lending market, and in return, you get a token you could use in DeFi. So the outcome there is the same. So
we thought, why not pull these together into one pool? And because we need a liquidation route for
DATOM, and we could use a DATOM atom pool. But why not do a DATOM and atom pool, right? And I think
that goes back to thinking in terms of strategies
uh everything is a strategy uh i really love that that you pointed that out andre so if everything
is a strategy why would you want a pool where one of the assets is earning yield the other is not
when you could have a pool where both of them are earning yield. And that's what we're doing with the N asset pools,
especially with the ones pairing with LSTs.
And yeah, we're very excited to do this.
I think it's something we're seeing.
Other chains have done it in kind of similar ways
using different underlying assets. But i want to point to like
barrett chain and their proof of liquidity system where essentially you earn a staking reward on
your lp token and of course the in it which is what they call enshrined liquidity, where, again, you earn a staking reward on the LP token.
And then for us with the Atom and Atom, it's you earn a reward on your LP token.
So there are similarities there, although they're built up a little bit differently.
a little bit differently.
And yeah, we want to see this just throughout DeFi.
More, just better pools,
better opportunities for liquidity providers,
better strategies.
And yeah, I think I'm really excited to see this going.
Maybe Mitya, we can bring up DE in it just a little bit and talk about what it is exactly.
Yeah, that's a new type of analysis based on initials, native token called init. Initia is the new, let's say, ecosystem that is launching in a couple of days from now. And they're trying
to solve this problem of how you would strap liquidity for the ecosystem in general and
the liquidity for the rollups that are building using initial stack. And they decided to approach it using the so-called Intranet Efficiency Mechanism that we mentioned. The way it works is they have certain pairs
on the primary techs of the ecosystem that can receive staking rewards if you stake your
tech's position, essentially. And we decided to take this opportunity and create an LSD
that is based on the state LP position. And if you think about the most important DEX pool
for any ecosystem, that's the pool that connects your native token to USDT. So this is what we're
doing. In case ofia, this pool has this
interesting trait that it has 80% of Init token and 20% of USDT. So from the user experience
perspective, that is kind of close to staking your Init, but you're also getting additional
rewards. So you get text rewards and you get staking rewards that can be different
across different types of the tokens that you stake. So, yeah, depending on the DAO
vaults of the initial DAO, they can decide to reward this particular position with the
highest staking rewards as well. So, as a user, you can either state your init token with the drop, and then everything
happens under the hoods, the liquidity is provided to the text, then the protocol gets
the LP token that is the state, and the user gets the LST, that is the receipt token for
the whole process. And then kind
of the process of withdrawal is the other way around. So you receive an LP token back.
And you can also take your LP token withdrawal if you have your position on the DEX already.
Yeah, and this is going live essentially as soon as the niche is going live, which is supposed to be this week. And I'm really excited about it because it kind of solves this whole
capital efficiency problem. So if you think about the normal LSD design, when you stake first and
then you provide liquidity on a DEX, then on some of the
key pairs that you want to have a lot of liquidity on, for instance, these correlated pairs,
let's say Atom, D-Atom, you don't get any staking rewards on the Atom part. And this
is a bit of an issue, of course, because you want to get staking rewards as much as possible on your position.
And because in Inisha's case that works the other round, you can provide equity to the
dex first and stake second. That provides an interesting opportunity to create the whole
asset that captures all these different rewards. Yes, I'm pretty excited about it. Looking forward to Inisha's going live and to Drops
going live with Inisha. This is going to be an ecosystem that has a few different approaches
to launching liquid-staking protocols. So, yeah, we'll see how it goes.
Yeah, you mentioned Barochain as well. They experimented with different types of
quotes and quotes proof of liquidity.
Initia has its own unique approach.
I love this level of experimentation around this capital efficiency issue.
Me too. I love seeing it it brings back a bit of the the excitement uh that i got when i when i
got into crypto in in early 2021 uh which i've been sorely missing so yeah i'm i'm just really
happy to see that all play out um we're coming up close to the hour um if anyone in the audience has questions um please raise up your
hand we'll bring you up on stage um otherwise yeah well i want to say um the adam and adam pool
currently has around uh 50k in liquidity and uh is earning a good 51% APY.
You can actually go to the Neptune D app
and go to the pools page and you get like a breakdown
of where the yield is coming from.
So part of it is the D atom yield,
part of it is the N atom yield,
and then part of it is the staking incentives.
So Astro rewards.
So we are trying to grow this pool um if um
anyone in the audience has some adam or has some d adam and wants to support this pool please do so
um your support is very much appreciated um i wanna maybe briefly before we end, I want to give the mic back to Andre.
I loved hearing your insights.
I think we've learned so much in the spaces from some talks about Astroport
to very confidential.
Just share something more with us.
Yeah, I don't think I have much more to share other than what we already discussed.
Also, Mitya mentioned a lot of things that I'm very, very excited about, which is the SuperVault.
SuperVault, they're pretty much very optimized
for Mars and the landing market.
But I think Oracle pools, they can have different forms,
different types of pools or strategies,
which comes back to what I was mentioning.
So definitely having an Oracle on the network
does really open up
some other possibilities.
And we are researching around these
and where Supervolts
try to make capital
the most efficient possible
for DeFi, for lending, for everything.
At the end of the day,
we are very focused on
what are the strategies that can make the most money for
our RLPs.
And that's certainly something that we are also researching and investigating.
One similar protocol that does something like this is Lfinity on Solana.
So we are also taking some notes on from that ecosystem and see if we can bring it back to our side, basically.
So yeah, and by the way, that's why like block times are so key to get like smaller.
Because the difference between profitability when you like decrease the block times, like just because your local price is updated more often
is insane right from one second to alpha second you like it's probably like 10x uh in terms of
performance uh so yeah that's super key i'm super super excited about it uh i think like it also opens up other opportunities for other types of products, but I leave that for maybe another space.
Cool. Thank you. Yeah, definitely want to hear you more talk on spaces.
Yeah, we're closing the hour. The space was recorded.
I think I'll spend some time tomorrow listening to it and writing a brief recap.
Thank you guys for coming. It's a real pleasure to talk to you and pick your brains on everything that's going on in Cosmos.
Thank you, Neptune, for hosting. And yeah, see you soon.
Thank you so Neptune for hosting and yeah, see you soon.
