Good morning, beautiful people.
Thank you for joining our space.
We have a couple of guests lined up for today
and we'll start in a couple of minutes.
And in the meantime, we're gonna listen to a song.
GM, GM, good morning, people. Good afternoon. Good evening. Thank you for tuning in to Yield
Must Chat. This is our second episode of the season and we're super excited to have all
of you here with us. We have amazing guests lined up today and there's so much to get
into, but before we get into all of that, hey, Gio. Hey, hey, how's it going? Amazing,
amazing. I'm glad to have you here today. How are you feeling? Feeling good. Thank you. Thank
you. It's been, weather's getting nicer. Things are moving and grooving. Things are going well.
Awesome. That all sounds pretty exciting. We don't have Kaku up here with us today.
No, it's a sad day. I know.
Kaku, we miss you, but give us a thumbs up if you're good and if everything's going good.
Awesome. There's so much to get into today.
But I guess it would be great to start with a couple of updates, Yield Must related updates. I
know that in the last month, we've discussed turning on revenue for Yield Must for our DCA and no DCA
strategies. And we've gotten past the first step, which is getting governance to say, hey, guys,
okay, yes, you can go ahead and introduce some sort of fee. But we're currently in the discussion
stage of figuring out what these fees would look like. And we've gotten suggestions from the
community for everything from 1% to 10% on these strategies. So conversations and discussions are
still open and still ongoing on commonwealth and on Discord. And it's never too late to get your
opinion in and help us shape the future of Yield Must. Do you have anything to add to that, Gio?
No, I think you did a good job. Encourage everybody to come by, take a look and participate.
So awesome. We're doing so much exciting stuff today. Today's topic is one of the things that
I've looked forward to for so long. And not just because we're Yield Farmers and we care about
getting the most yield that we can, but also because we have some amazing people from amazing
projects here to give us the inside alpha on the best way to find yield in Cosmos.
So we have the team from LaVonna, we have the White Whale team here, and we have the
Quicksilver team with us here. We're going to get into those introductions in a second.
I just need to make sure everyone's up here.
Hey, JB. Thank you for joining us. So this is JB from LaVonna, correct?
Awesome. Awesome. So we have the White Whale team up here, we have the LaVonna team up here,
and I guess the Quicksilver team is on their way. So we can get into the space right now, guys.
I would love if both of you could give us a quick introduction. So tell us your name,
what you do at your respective teams, and then what your project does.
So we can do JB first and then Sebastian.
Yeah, I know. So I suppose we already went through and my name's JB,
and recently joined the LaVonna team, been working on Web3 maybe for like three years about,
and started getting involved maybe more so in the MultiverseX Injective Ecosystems,
and working with a staking provider called Helios Staking,
and building out content, helping build out the community, all those sorts of things. And
on that end, and recently got involved with LaVonna to help aid the marketing efforts,
the social efforts to help amplify, create awareness around the brand, help make people aware of the
great product that we're offering to defy on Cosmos, specifically Injective Osmosis, and say,
and yeah, excited to be here. We're continually growing. We recently hit a milestone of $2 billion
and total trading volume on the platform continuously growing. And yeah, just excited
for the future and excited for bringing forward new opportunities for everyone.
And in default, trading opportunities for everyone in defi on Cosmos.
Awesome. That was such an amazing introduction. And just before we go to Whitewill,
I would love it if you could give like a brief intro of what LaVonna does for anyone that's
not familiar. Yeah, no, for sure. So LaVonna stands for leverage any asset, and essentially,
we allow users to pop on the platform, and they can either provide liquidity against the trades on
any asset or more importantly, they can trade collateralized in any native token on Injective
Osmosis or say. So what that means in simple terms is let's say, and you don't want to set it to like
USDC or USDT to open a leverage trade, you can just go on with that Injective or with that say
or with that Osmosis in your wallet, you can choose the amount of collateral you want to
deposit into the trade, you can choose the amount of leverage, you can choose your take profit, your
stop loss, and the protocol is well funded, which essentially means all positions on the platform
are completely secured all moments, your profit and loss is guaranteed. And then you can open
your trade and your profit is realized in the native token. That's brilliant. That's brilliant.
I'm not going to get into my LaVonna stories on this space. Yeah, but it was a great experience
trying it out. Hey, Sebastian. Hi, thank you for joining us today. We would love a quick
intro about yourself and White Whale. Yes. Hello. Hello. Thank you guys for having me. I'm
very happy to be here. I am the founder of White Whale and Migulu Blockchain. We are a
Cosmos L1. We like to say we're pushing DeFi boundaries. That's kind of our motto. It's kind
of our vibe. We've been doing a lot with restaking lately. So about a year ago,
actually, when we went live with our chain, we went live with the Alliance module implemented
by TFL, which basically enables restaking on your chain. And we've kind of been experimenting
ever since. So basically, whitelisting other tokens that can be staked on our chain to earn
some of the chain yield, some of the inflation yield of our chain. So we've whitelisted assets
like BTC. We've also whitelisted LP tokens, right? So our whale USDC LP token, our whale BTC LP token.
We've whitelisted community tokens, right? Ecosystem tokens. And actually, this week,
we are launching something called restake DAO. And basically, what that's going to do is it's going to
enable any holders of restake token will be able to dictate and direct chain yield, whale
inflation chain yield to whatever asset they choose, right? So what this does is it kind of
introduces a liquidity war VE tokenomics, if you will, like a curve war style, dynamic to
restaking. So you can buy restake token, you can accumulate restake tokens, and then you can
stake them and you can direct yield of whale of Migulu to whatever asset that you wish,
right? So it's a very interesting thing. We're quite excited about it. And you know, we'll get
into some of the specific opportunities here, I'm assuming, but you know, right now we have so
we have these assets, but you know, that have been enabled by restaking, right? And if you don't
know what what restaking is, it's basically, basically, you're able to stake the same asset
on multiple chains or in multiple places and kind of double dip on yield. So earn yield from two
different places at once, right? So we have actually engineered these assets, they're called
Amp Whale Tea and B Whale Tea. And basically, what it is, is it's a whale that is staked on
both Migulu and Terra simultaneously. And it's a this is a liquid staked version, right? So it's an
LST of whale that's staked on both of those chains. So it aggregates both of those yields,
yields, and then auto compounds it back into whale, right? So this LST is currently yielding
about 100%. Okay, so and that is single, single asset, right? It's whale, it's not an LP,
there's no impermanent loss. It's single asset. And it's sustainable, right? It's from the chain,
it's not like it's incentives, and it requires to be reloaded or anything. It's for as long as
these chains operate, that prints that way. So you're talking about 100% yield on your whale tokens
by leveraging these LSTs, these tokens. So that just gives you a little bit of an idea
of the power of restaking that we're kind of dabbling with over at Migulu and whale.
That sounds so exciting. And I would love to get deep into that. And just by the way, you can actually
on our Juno outpost, set aside some funds to periodically purchase amp whale and b whale for
you, which is such an amazing thing. Now, hearing about all the amazing things that you can get
from holding these tokens and so much and all the amazing stuff that you can do with these tokens.
So if you're looking to get into that, and you have some Juno, head over to our Juno outpost,
and you should be able to get sorted out pretty quickly. And that might actually be the easiest
way to get into amp whale and b whale, by the way, if you're not familiar with the Migulu ecosystem.
But this is great, guys. The conversation today is supposed to be a conversation that looks at the
different ways that people can earn yield in cosmos. So from things from stuff like staking,
or liquidity providing, and everything in between that. And there are questions that I have for
both Levana and white whale, and I would love for us to get into that. And I think we can
start with Levana, right? So could you walk us through how someone with a basic understanding of
DeFi can get started with Levana? Like, what's the first step that anyone that wants to get into
Levana should take? Yeah, no, of course. So obviously, if Levana is maybe on Injective,
say osmosis, and the people who are most likely to explore Levana are going to be those who hold
like Injective, IMJ, SEI, or Osmo, and simply or some of the other tokens on osmosis. And I'd
say the simplest step to getting started earning yield, and obviously, this conversation is better
earning yield on cosmos, I'd say the simplest step someone could take on Levana to start earning yield
is depositing our LP pools. So the LP pools we have in Levana are single sided, and which basically
means you deposit, and let's say Axanar, you deposit Osmo, you deposit Injective, you deposit SEI
into the LP, which gives the collateral for the platform or the liquidity for the platform,
to allow trades to be opened against, and then you will earn fees from the trades that are
opened against the liquidity you provide to the platform. And given the fact that like,
most traders are unprofitable, and yes, this is a bet on the house, essentially,
that when you provide the liquidity, you're going to take a portion and a relative proportion of
your contribution to the liquidity pool of losing trades, and if that makes sense.
That makes perfect sense. And that's a great way to start out. And for someone like me that
recognizes that I'm a bad trader, I would 100% go for that. But what other opportunities
are there in Levana for someone that might have maybe like a higher risk appetite or like just
want something more exciting? Yeah, I know. Well, I suppose like Levana foundationly is a leverage
trading protocol. And so essentially, if people have that little bit more confidence in their
ability to predict the markets, and they're going to be able to go on, they're going to be able to
take their collateral, they're going to be able to take their IMJ, take their say,
take their Osmo, they're going to be able to put that into the platform, and they're going
to be able to trade up to 30x leverage on some of those markets, which is pretty,
pretty like high risk, if you ask me, and it's going to give like the potential for
significantly amplified returns. And if you're right, but obviously, there's a significant
downside if you're wrong. So whenever you're engaging in any, in any activities like that,
it's, it's probably wise to be have like done a little bit of background research into and have a
little bit of understanding. And that what you're getting into not advising anyone to just jump in
and start 30x everything right away, like, you know, and time and place, but like, not all the
time, and not a lot, not in our places. Definitely, I definitely agree with that. So
we have like, a broad understanding or a simple understanding of what opportunities are there for
beginners or even more experienced traders on Nirvana. And I'd love to go to White Whale and ask,
right, in your experience, what's the biggest challenge that newcomers face when trying to
earn youth in Cosmos? And how do you think they can overcome some of these challenges?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good question. And it's really, it's a really good
thing to highlight and talk about. You know, Cosmos, in general, I think there's a there's
a high barrier to entry, right? For for newcomers, for normies, onboarding in general is pretty
difficult. It takes a while to kind of navigate IDC, the different chains, you know, all of the
different gas, you know, tokens that you're using in gas. These things are, you know, they're not
that intuitive. They are, to us who have been doing it for, you know, for months and years. But
coming in the first time, you're just, you're clueless. I don't know how many times I've had
to walk, you know, my in real life friends or somebody that I'm introducing to crypto or to
whale or to whatever, and they have 1000 questions, right? And they all seem very basic to me. But
but to a first time user, they're quite challenging, right? So and I think this is where a lot of the
monolithic chains, right? Like, like, for example, Solana, you know, Solana is one chain,
and they've actually made onboarding and new users, you know, quite easy, right? And quite intuitive.
And they've really captured a lot of the market share from, you know, in this cycle,
that's really been one of the big narratives that we're seeing is, you know, the ETH maxis and kind
of the ETH, you know, DeFi shifting over to Solana from Ethereum, because nobody wants to
pay $100 to do any transaction, right, or $50, whatever it is. So that the easiest place to
transition to is Solana. So I think it's and you know, we're well, we're maybe we're just as
guilty as everybody else. You know, we're hard to use. If you don't know what you're doing,
if you do know, you can print, you can print yield, and you could do all kinds of the
coolest, funnest DeFi stuff out there, right, restaking and printing yield and all this
double dipping and, you know, all kinds of fun stuff, right, just just like Levana with the leverage.
But getting new users and getting new liquidity is the issue. It really is, right. But I think
it's a cosmos wide issue that we all need to solve together. Definitely. I definitely agree
with that. I saw one new development this week that it's now much easier to get USDC across
from Solana to Cosmos and back. So I definitely see that helping with getting into the ecosystem. But
I have a question. Do you think that because with Solana, I think a lot of the adapts and even
their wallets are a lot more mobile friendly. Do you think that that has been like a hindrance
for the Cosmos ecosystem? Because even with the existing wallets and some of the existing apps
that we have, a lot of them are mobile friendly. Yeah, is this to me? Yeah, I think that's
a fair point. I think that's certainly one issue. I don't think it's the only issue,
to be honest with you. But Solana is ahead of the Cosmos in mobile. I think that's
a pretty fair statement. But it's beyond that. It's beyond that. And you're right,
we are taking ground. So for example, the news just came out, I think it was this week with
Skipps integration and they're bridging USDC from Solana to Cosmos. So I think that's huge.
I think what Noble has done, what Noble chain has done with native USDC, that's huge. These
are big steps. And we've seen a lot of progress and we've seen a healthy appetite for native USDC.
So we're moving in the right direction here. But yes, there are other things that need to
be tackled and mobile is certainly one of them. Definitely. I completely agree with that.
I'd love to segue over to LaVonna. So we got into some of the ways that people can earn
yield on LaVonna. And one of the things that you mentioned was leverage trading. And I know that
even with traditional finance and regular forex traders, leverage trading is one thing that's
almost like a taboo where they tell you don't ever use leverage when you trade.
And I'd love to hear from you. What do you think are some of the common misconceptions about using
leverage in your farming that you'd like to clear up for everyone listening?
Yeah, no. So I think, let's say, like just in any moment, like blanket generalizations of
statements saying nobody should do this, or everybody should do this, or this is the right
thing, or this is the wrong thing, are almost always like out of context and biased in nature.
So at LaVonna, I'd say we're aware that people like to leverage trade. And we're building a
protocol that is going to give the most robust leverage trading experience to anyone who wishes
to leverage trade. And that's not to say like leverage trading is for everybody. But we are
building an ecosystem that can facilitate everybody within it. So if leverage trading
isn't your thing, and you actually think that most traders inherently as they statistically are
unprofitable, you can seek to profit off that, like unprofitability of others by depositing our LP.
If like we touched on earlier, like you have that little bit of a more risk on appetizing, you want
to take on some of those higher leverage trades, you can do so and you can like work with up to
30x leverage on collateralizing native tokens, and providing that kind of friction free trading
experience where you don't have to keep switching between your native tokens and stable tokens or
stable coins to like open trades. And yeah, but I think ultimately, if people are getting involved,
there has to be a huge degree of personal responsibility involved in leverage trading
and managing your capital as there is with all investments, but especially with leverage
trading simply because how fast the positions can move. If you position yourself in a poor way,
or if you open a trade, and that condition is set up negatively for you or that can run against
you quickly. And yeah, so I think like blanket statements, blanket statements like good, bad,
nobody should, everybody should be avoided. But a Levana protocol, we're just like aware that
people like to leverage trade. We like we're aware if there's a demand for it, and we're trying to
build the best and most robust, most secure, most accessible trading experience, and for anyone
that wishes to participate in it. That's an amazing replay. And also, like I think that's one of the
most important thing for every trader. Know your strengths and your weaknesses. Always have feel
safe. I don't want to call them feel safe, but always move with intention. Have goals and make
sure you stick closely to those goals as much as possible. And I guess give everything a try.
You'd never know how good or bad you are, once you give it a try. No, for sure. And actually,
I think touching on one of the topics that you guys were touching on just there a second ago in
relation to, let's say Cosmos versus Solana, I think it's a very similar discussion. And I think
it's missing the bigger picture of where we're going in web three, where we're going in DeFi,
where we're going, like as an ecosystem, as a space as a whole, where the decentralized
financial movement and the decentralization movement as a whole is going in terms of,
let's say we got Axlar integrated with Cosmos. I think it's going to be more about like what is
being built, the value of what is being built, and there's going to be increasing amounts of
like interoperability layers that are going to help connect fragmented liquidity across chains.
So I think actually, it's going to give builders the opportunity to really focus less on having to
position themselves in the right place. But be aware that if they build the right things,
you know, the way the old saying like, if you build it, they will come. I think it's
going to become more like that in the next few years with the quality of the interoperability
layers that are being built right now and the robustness of them. And you got wormhole,
you got Axlar, you got all these kind of bridges becoming easier and easier to use.
And they're connecting those fragmented liquidity is making it easier to connect across chains. So
I think it's going to be more about what is being built than where it's being built in
as we go forward. That's not to say it's not important right now,
but I'm just think it's going to become less important as we move forward in space, you know.
100%. I completely agree with that sentiment. And everything that's, I mean, a lot of things
that have been built this year are pretty much all working towards that goal where it's less
important or what chain you're on is less important as the value that you're getting
from whatever DAP or app that you're interacting with. And I would love to see that honestly.
Definitely something that, excuse me, definitely something that has always been an issue is,
I guess, just having gas or whatever chain you're trying to get to,
like, I don't have any of that, right. And having less of those issues would definitely be a great
step forward for the entire ecosystem, every ecosystem.
Definitely. And I think, like, these interoperability protocols are becoming
more sophisticated, more user friendly. They have some of those issues at the forefront of
their consideration. They realize they're actually competing against other protocols that
are trying to provide a similar experience. The thing that's going to drive the value
to their protocol is going to be the user experience, going to be the adoption.
And I think like the old, like, again, like an old adage, if you want to call it, but like,
like, it's competition breeds innovation, you know, like, where, like, people are competing
for users, they realize they need to attract users to drive value to their to their protocol,
to their token, and it's going to like breed more innovation, and if that makes sense.
Well, it makes so much sense. And yes, that's very correct. Competition does build breed
innovation. And at the end of the day, it's all a positive for users. So that's a great
thing to see. I'd love to. No, no, I was just saying, yeah, like 100% a positive sum game,
we're all working, we're all we're all building, we're all collaborating, we're all working towards
and amplifying each other's like inputs and just creating like a space like a positive
sum space where everybody can win, you know. Definitely, definitely. I'd love to jump back
to white will. And I know that we spoke about restaking and some of the derivatives that you
guys have right now with b will and amp will. And I'd love to know, I guess the reasoning behind the
introduction of these tokens and specifically in the sense of restaking, right? In your
view, how does restaking help in terms of liquidity across the ecosystem?
Yeah, so, you know, we at at Miggaloo, and with white whale, we have prioritized
liquid staking tokens, LSTs. They're in a central part of our ecosystem, they're at our core. And
I think one thing that we've done well, if I can say so, is we've gone out of our way to actually
provide utility and things you could do with these LSTs. A lot of times you get LSTs, and there's
really nothing you could do with them, right? You hold them and it's a liquid token. But there's,
you know, there's not much you could do from there. So, one thing that restaking does is it
allows you to basically take that LST, that token that's already generating yield from your
mother chain, and then stake it to another chain, right? That's a basic utility of an LST,
right? Another thing, but it's kind of like building blocks, right? So, you could take that
from there. So, let's say you have an LST, you have AMP whale, right? And by the way,
just to give a little context, we have two LST partners, LST partners and Miggaloo. We have AMP
whale and we have B-Whale, right? So, AMP is ARIS, ARIS protocol. B-Whale is Backbone Labs.
Backbone Labs, they do kind of a cool, and they're totally different models, right? They do like an
NFT phi, where they have NFT collections that are tied to their LSTs. So, the NFT collections
actually earn a portion of the yield. It's very community-based project. And then ARIS,
you know, because of their specific mechanisms and minimal fees, they just have very high
yielding LSTs, right? And we think it's important, just on another note, we think it's important to
diversify and have more than one LST on your chain, right? Because they are, in a sense,
they can be points of failure, right? If something, you know, they can take over validator sets,
right? We've seen that, you know, they can basically grow and have too much power in a chain or ecosystem
and they can get exploited, right? So, that's why we have two partners and they're different, okay?
But again, going back to the utility, right? So, you have an LST that it's a liquid token,
it gets yield from the mother chain, then you can restake it. So, let's take AMP whale,
for example, you can take your AMP whale, which is yielding in the new 6% and you can stake that
on Terra right now, right? And you can earn another 70% yield with your AMP whale on top of
the 6% yield that it's already compounding and you get that at Luna, right? You get 70% in Luna.
So, our community loves this, they love this. We have over 100 million whales staked on Terra,
it's like almost 20% of our supply and it's literally just printing. It is just printing,
printing like it's like the best kept secret in DeFi, you know? It's just our like our community
goes nuts over it and you can take that Luna, right? You can stack your Luna if you want or
you can redirect it, you know? You can do so, you can accumulate other assets, basically free
cash flow, you know? And honestly, yield most and what you guys are building and what you
bring to the table for Migulu will come in great handy for a tool like that. But then,
you know, then, so we have that where you can stake it to Terra, then Eris built another
derivative called AMP whale T, which I mentioned earlier, and this is basically an LST that stacks
both of those yields together and auto compounds them. So, that's currently at 100% yield,
right? So then, with the building blocks, if you're following me and we're getting deep down
the rabbit hole of DeFi right now, right? This is down the rabbit hole, but that's all right,
you know, that's okay. We got some crypto natives here, we can go there.
So, you got AMP whale T yielding 100%, right? You're growing your whale single asset,
you're growing it by 100%. You could then use that as collateral,
which you can do on Ginku, right? And you can borrow against that AMP whale T. So now,
you have an asset yielding 100% that you can use for things like collateral to borrow against,
right? And then, you could even keep going, right? You could even keep going. I mean,
the next step down the line and we're not there yet would be using this for like a
self-repaying loan, right? So, theoretically, if you have an asset yielding 100%,
you can take out a loan and you can have it repay itself in a year, you know. So,
there's just, you could take this so far, right? You could do a triple, you could not only
aggregate yield from two chains, but you can aggregate yield from three chains,
right? And put all that into one asset. You know, there's just, it's a blue ocean of things
that you could do with restaking. So, we're playing with it. We're just playing with it
right now. That's such an interesting breakdown, to be honest. And now, I see why the whale
community is so bullish. There's so much being kept secret in that community that's so valuable
to everyone. And thank you so much for sharing that with us. I'm pretty sure that we have a
couple of listeners that will go and check that out right away. Personally, I'll be checking some
of that out right away. And, you know, there's so much collaboration going on within the megaloo
community and there's so much partnerships. And I'd love to know, JB, what do you think
people that hold some of these LSTs can do with them on Levana?
Well, the simplest thing is we actually offer liquid staking tokens or liquid staking derivatives,
if you want to call them. We offer markets for them. So, we have Miltia, we have Staked Osmo,
and we have Staked Adam. We're in talks with trying to get liquid-staked derivatives or
injective liquid-staked derivatives of say. And like any other asset on the platform,
and the market is collateralized in itself ultimately. So, you can trade like the value
of Miltia against the value of USD collateralized in Miltia. And if you wanted, you could provide
liquidity to the Miltia market in Miltia and be earning your either earning yield like in Miltia
or trade leverage trading Miltia to earn more Miltia. So, it's almost like a triple appreciating
effect where let's say you're holding Miltia, which is going up in price. You're earning more
Tia because the liquid, the LST of Miltia itself is earning you more Tia. And then also you're
using either providing liquidity on Levana or leverage trading Miltia to earn more of the
token itself, if that makes sense. So, it creates a nice flywheel for anyone who wishes
to participate or use like LSTs on Levana. And I think like the liquid staking,
the liquid staking development and the way kind of this space and that like aspect of DeFi has
progressed over the last year or two has really unlocked a lot of opportunities. It's really kind
of harmoniously aligned the incentives between securing proof-stake blockchains and unlocking
the liquidity of proof-of-stake blockchains. And I think it really has been and was a really
great innovation in moving DeFi forward. Definitely, I definitely agree with that.
I'd just like to break here and say that we are taking questions. So, you're free to come up and
ask any one of us a question or leave it in the chat box on the bottom right and we can get
our guests to answer some of these questions. So, I want to go deeper into Levana, right,
and I love like a simple breakdown. If you could give us like a tip or a trick for getting the max
amount of returns with Levana, that might not be obvious to new users. So, we're basically
asking for some alpha here. Sorry, my thing was off. But in terms of alpha, I don't know if I have
any specific alpha because the platform is as simple as that. A few little things maybe,
our LVN token we have, we airdropped it to our earliest community members back in late 2023
and we've upcoming airdrop phases planned. We have a staking governance portal launching in the next
couple of weeks. It's going to allow users to capture yield from the platform and it's going to
allow people, like stakers, to have a direct influence on maybe some of the directions of
the platform, like a data decentralized autonomous organization. And I suppose in relation to that,
like we're tying the LVN token and the utility it's going to have in the platform
into current opportunities. On Injective right now, we launched a vault on MITO Finance, which are like
an automated trading yield platform built by I believe the core Injective team. And we launched
an LVN INJ pair with I think it's paying something like over 300% APR at the moment in LVN,
if that makes sense. And then on DojoSwap, which is one of the leading AMMs in terms of
volume on Injective, we also launched a, or they actually airdropped LVN tokens to their community
and we entered a little bit of a partnership with them. And they decided to airdrop LVN tokens
to their community. And they also opened a firm LVN Dojo firm, which is paying, I think,
it's over 300% APR, it may be lower right now, but it was over 300 the last time I checked in
the last couple of days and paid in Dojo tokens on their platform. So I suppose in anticipation of
the staking governance portal launching on Nirvana, where there's going to be opportunities to influence
the platform and collect yield from the platform, and there's farming opportunities for the LVN token.
And if you wish to accumulate it, hold it and collect yield from it while you're awaiting the
launch of the staking governance portal. In terms of on the platform itself, you're probably
looking at each week popping on or each day popping on. I'd say like on you want to be
depositing liquidity over a longer term timeframe, especially on Nirvana, you get the most returns
from locking liquidity in the market. So we've got LP and we've got XLP. XLP pays higher returns,
but locks your tokens as liquidity in the market for a longer period of time. And we could check
on there every few days and see what markets are paying high APRs. We've had consistently high
APRs and DYM over the last month. Every time I've checked, it's been triple digit APRs on
DYM and over the last month. Now, obviously that's variable. That changes based on the
dynamics of the trading environment, depending on how many traders are winning, how many traders
are losing. But there's great opportunities on Nirvana in that sense as well.
That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. I know that our audience has
learned so much amazing stuff from this conversation so far, and we're getting to
the end of the space. And I just have a couple more things to ask. I think that one thing I'd
really love to know, seeing as both teams that are speaking right now are one of the most
innovative or both of the most innovative teams in the entire ecosystem. You guys have pioneered
so many amazing things that so many cosmonauts use every day. And I'd love to know what's one
innovation or trend in the Cosmos ecosystem that excites you the most? And how do you see
whatever trend this might be to you? How do you see it impact in your generation in Cosmos?
Anyone can go first? I actually don't think I'm the best positioned to answer that. I just see
the opportunities as they are right now. And in terms of where things might go in the future,
I think things like, actually, I do have an answer. The things like you're building here,
I just had a quick look at automated yield generators where, let's say, people can deposit
their liquidity or their funds into smart contracts. And it's going to be able to go and seek out
security. Obviously, hopefully, the underpinning infrastructure is fundamentally sound and audited
and secure, and that people's funds are not unnecessarily vulnerable with these platforms.
But if you look at the likes of Mitre Finance on Injective, and you look at what you guys
are doing here, I'd say a trend towards automization to increase the capital efficiency
of users' funds as they seek yield, if that makes sense. Maybe if we're to go with the wider
worldwide trend of AI and how AI is being incorporated in every sector, I'd say the
concept of automation and artificial intelligence of capital seeking yield and the deployment of
capital to seek yield is probably going to infiltrate DeFi as well, if that makes sense.
Definitely. Yes, it does. I have a question for you. If you could incorporate AI or use some
sort of AI tool to improve your trading experience or your yield farming experience,
what would you love that tool to do? I think there's probably three things as I think about
them here. I'd say, first of all, able to translate a natural language into information. The thing
I'm talking to or the system I'm talking to being able to capture data from a variety of real-time
sources, so being able to go, hey, what are the best APRs on DYM available right now? Are
APRs on LVM available right now? Are APRs on INJ available right now? Then you can go and
then talk to it. What is the TVL of that pool? What's the volume of that pool? Second thing is
probably being able to talk and partner to review your trading history or review your history,
if that makes sense. Can you tell me the most profitable pools I've been in? Almost like your
personal trading advisor or your personal investing advisor. Can you tell me what pools I've been in?
Can you tell me what they're earning? Can you tell me what they've earned? Can you tell me
my most profitable ones? Can you tell me my less profitable ones? Especially when it comes to
leverage trading as well, that'd be a pretty cool tool to have. We're tentatively thinking
about integrating AI into Levana. It's very early stage discussions within the team.
The third thing I would say is the thing you guys on first glance seem to be building,
which is that automated yield seeker, where you're giving the capital to a smart contract that is
powered by AI, if you want to call it, or powered by advanced automated algorithms that are going to
and probably bring better results than a human is capable of making, either through the volume of
transactions it's capable of making, and that it's able to run 24 hours a day when a human is not
able to make decisions or put the inputs in 24 hours a day, or by the fact that it just
makes better decisions because it has access to data, if that makes sense, that a human
cannot comprehend, it's able to take in, make sense of, and execute on a larger number of
data points than a human could consistently do so. Yeah, those are all amazing things,
and I sort of feel like someone is currently working on some of that right now, and we might see
live versions of some of these things by the end of the year, and that would just be great.
I know that from what you have said, one of the most important things to us has always been to help
people manage their assets across the entire interchain better, faster, and more reliably,
and that's why automation is one of the most important things for every feature that we build
out, and even going deeper than automation is the fact that we try to remain non-custodial,
and we don't use any smart contracts, so all of that smart contract risk is pretty much gone with
yield moths. Also the fact that there's no locking involved, there's never any locking involved,
so we're really trying to build out a very safe future for all DeFi users where you can automate
anything, you can always make sure that you're getting the highest yield possible, but your
assets are always in your custody, you never ever have to give up custody, and we're working on so
many amazing things in the next couple of weeks that we can't wait to share. We do use smart
contracts on our outputs, but we still don't take any custody, and all of these contracts are
obviously audited. I know, I think what you guys are saying, in terms of what you're trying
to build, there's going to be huge demand for it, I see a huge place for it going forward,
and I think optimizing for robustness and security and survival is always the way forward,
as in always seek to mitigate downside before shooting for upside, especially in a market
as sensitive as DeFi where you're managing, ultimately you're managing indirectly people's
phones. Yeah, definitely, definitely. Exactly, just trying to enable automation without having to
take custody of it, and we do utilize smart contracts to help with the business logic and
the decision making of it, but those smart contracts aren't requiring users to hand over
ownership of their asset, which is pretty important, very, very important for every user.
We've always championed the idea that dApps, DeFi dApps, can be non-custodial, and that's the
feature that we're trying to build at UNMOS. No, it sounds exciting. I'm really looking
forward to seeing what you guys bring forward, and the value you guys are adding to the
ecosystem, but within Cosmos, but then as we discussed earlier, interoperability
becomes more friction-free and seamless, and obviously protocols will be more easily
able to connect with larger pools of liquidity, and if you build the right things, I'm sure
the right people will find it. Definitely, we agree with that. We're nearing the end of
this space, and we don't have any questions, but we will be earning soon, and we have
Levana here, we have White Will here, and even at UNMOS, we have a couple of things in the works
with these projects, but I'd love to know, do you guys have anything that you're working on
together, or is there hope for a future collaboration between your projects?
Yeah, I mean, I'll speak to that. I know Jonathan fairly well, the founder of Levana. We kind of
go way back, we go back to the old terra glory days, and we have some partnerships and business
dealings together, and we've talked about it. We've talked about how we can collab and what
that looks like. I think, Will, we would love to be, to have levered options, to be
leveraged to be kind of integrated in Levana. We're not quite there yet, as far as liquidity
requirements go, but I think we will get there. It's just a matter of time, so I think that's
probably one of the most obvious things there. And then, who knows, right? Who knows what doors
will open and opportunities come, but we do have a good relationship with Levana, like I said,
you know, know Jonathan well, and certainly open to it in the future.
Yeah, that would be great to see. JB, do you have anything to add to that?
No, listen, like always, like we've discussed through the whole space, you know, always
excited to see collaboration, always excited to participate in collaboration, and I think like,
yeah, like it's just a, it's a key component of like why the space exists, why it's growing,
why it's growing like it is, and is that like concept of not only decentralization and
permissionless infrastructure, but also like trying to bring out that spirit of collaboration
and uplifting others, like rising tide lifts all boats sort of vibe, you know, and would love to
see and collaborate with like as many people as possible to bring as much value to as wide an
audience as possible. Yeah, 100%. Definitely, definitely. This has been such a great
conversation, guys. I've learned so much, and I'm sure that our listeners have learned so much as
well. Thank you so much for sharing all the alpha and all the knowledge that you have.
We are pretty much at the end of the space, but I'd love it if both of you could leave a message
for every Yoda Farber that's listening, that's listening to the space right now.
Yeah, sure. I'll go, I'll go and I'll drop some alpha here now. You know, I've mentioned restaking,
which has kind of been our thing in our niche that we've really been pressing into. I've also
mentioned AMP and B-Whale-T, which are single-sided, sustainable, you know, triple-digit yield, 100%
yield on your, on your whale, right? So currently we are, we are in the middle of an airdrop campaign.
The snapshots have not been taken yet. They will probably be at the end of this week or early
next week for restake token and restaked out, which this will, this is the first ever in the
Cosmos, but this token basically will allow you to direct liquidity through gauges to tokens of
your choice on Migulu Chain, right? So it'll allow you to direct yield, right? To direct restaking
yield. So if you, you know, if you want yield to go to BTC or you want yield to go to your
favorite little Dow that you're in or whatever it is, you know, the restake token controls,
controls a percentage of the Migulu yield. So that airdrop, the snapshot will be taken in the
coming days. An AMP and B-Whale-T holders will qualify for that airdrop. So we're trying to
showcase these assets because they're so powerful, frankly, I don't know anything else like them.
I don't know anything else like them. They're so powerful and really nobody knows about them,
to be fair. Nobody really knows about it except the people that do and are just printing with
them, right? So if you hold those, and I'll say this, and we have Backbone just jumped in here,
one of our LST providers, you're also qualifying by holding B-Whale-T. For example,
you're also qualifying for the Soul Airdrop, which is Backbone Labs' upcoming token,
and the Eris Airdrop, which is Eris Protocol's upcoming token. So really, you're hitting a
three, you're getting 100% yield and a three-banger airdrop just by holding B-Whale-T, right? So I would,
that's the alpha, right? That's the alpha. If I were you, I would get yourself a bag.
We put out, it's a little bit tricky, you know, it's a little bit, especially first time.
We put out a tutorial video, it's on our Twitter and it's on our YouTube page
that shows you how to obtain these assets. But that's what I'll leave you with.
That's such amazing, Alpha. Thank you for sharing that with us. And I was just going to add,
one of the easiest ways to get B-Whale or Amp-Whale is through our Juno Outpost,
literally takes five clicks and has been the easiest way for me to get those assets as well.
So you definitely want to check that out if you're looking to get some B-Whale or some Amp-Whale.
So JB, we would love a message from you as well.
Yeah, I think I've covered most of the things. I'd just like to thank Sebastian and thank you guys
for like, firstly, you guys hosting a great space. Sebastian, thanks for having a great chat,
like really enjoy listening to you. Really excited to see what you guys are building over
at White Whale and also wish you all the best luck with the upcoming airdrop and
everything you have planned. And thanks for dropping that, Alpha. I'll be sure to check
it out. And I suppose probably like I touched on earlier, if you're into LVN, if you like what I
was talking about, if you see the value in the LVN token, how it's going to be in the platform,
how it's going to maybe allow Stakers to have an influence on the direction of the platform,
allow Stakers to collect yield, you can pick it up and you can access some pretty
great opportunities with triple digit APRs on Injective and have a couple of really
good ones at the moment, but we're exploring opportunities all the time and across all the
chains we're on. M on Osmosis, even like if you're slightly less, slightly, slightly less DGen.
I think the last time I checked, like the Adam LVM pool was paying like 50%.
I think like LVN and Stablecoin might have been paying like 40% or something like that.
And I think on Injective, like I was talking about,
Mito Finance, LVN Injective Payer paying like over like 300% APR. Dojo LVN on Dojo Swap paying
over 300% APR. And yeah, like obviously this is yield farming, you've got to like have a look
into it, understand the risks, understand the assets you're holding, understand the farms
you're depositing your liquidity into, and understand what can happen and both positive
and negative before deciding to take on any of these opportunities. But it's just yeah,
there's exciting opportunities there to yield farm LVN. And obviously then, if you're single-sided
looking for some of the highest yield available on some of the assets you're probably holding,
and you can check out Levana. And if playing the house interests you, you can deposit liquidity
into our single-sided liquidity pools for traders to trade against. And if the traders lose,
which most of the time traders do, you're going to pick up the fees. And yeah, so I probably
went down longer than I wanted there at the end. But the most important thing is thanks
guys for a great chat. Really appreciate it. And best of luck, you guys, with everything
you're building and really looking forward to seeing how it all comes together, you know.
Thank you so much for that, JB. I would love to say a big thank you to both of our guests
from Levana and White Whale JB and Sebastian. Thank you so much for joining our conversation.
Thank you for being a part of this space. We've gotten to the end of the space and we're going
to sign off in a second. Thank you to everyone that listened. I hope that everyone got to learn
something new today. I definitely got to learn something new today. As always, please stay
cautious, stay safe with your assets, always do your own research, and always be curious.
There's so much amazing stuff in Cosmos to learn and discover, and the builders just keep
building. Thank you again to all of our listeners. Shout out to Kaku, Gigi, and everyone
on the YODMOS team. Thank you to Jio for being here with us today. And thank you again to all
of our amazing listeners and to everyone that are listening to the recording later on.
Thank you for being a part of this space. We'll be here next month with a really special guest
guys. So you don't want to miss episode three of YODMOS chat. We have an amazing
event on our Discord this Friday. That's our weekly trivia night. You definitely don't want
to miss that as well. And so much more amazing stuff coming from YODMOS. As always, you guys
were amazing. Thank you for listening. Thank you for joining our chat. And until next month,
stay curious. Thanks for everybody for coming. Bye. Thanks, guys. Great talk. Bye, guys. We'll see you.
You're now listening to YODMOS chat.