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Your future yield, Today! with @pryzm_zone
Recorded: Aug. 8, 2025 Duration: 1:01:39Space Recording
Short Summary
Prism has officially launched its token, introducing innovative yield trading mechanisms and a high fixed yield of 200% for liquidity providers. The project aims to expand its utility and integrate new assets while collaborating with partners to enhance its NFT offerings, positioning itself for significant growth in the DeFi space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. so
Jim Jim how you doing not too bad how you doing sir very good happy Friday thanks very much So it's a good time for me. Okay. Look, it's closer to the weekend for me.
Oh, almost.
You're one beer before.
I think so, exactly.
I'm having a Coke Zero before my beer.
Very cool.
We'll get started in just a couple of minutes.
Let me just amplify the space real quick.
I'll play some music meanwhile if you want.
Love that.
In this laboratory of life, mixing elements day and night, Thank you. Everything is an experiment, flowing through time sediment.
Everything is an experiment, divine wisdom heaven sends.
Everything is an experiment, breaking boundaries as we went.
For those that just tuned in, welcome to the space.
Like I said, we will get started in just a couple of minutes.
Kind of have to amplify the space real quick, but do not fear.
It is also recorded.
If you're enjoying a nice cold brew on a beautiful sunny Friday afternoon. That's also an option.
Or celebrating EVE hitting 4,000.
Who would have thought, right, at the beginning of the cycle?
I guess the suits knew about this.
But on that note, bottom right corner, there's a little purple bubble.
Give the space a light.
Give a little retweet.
I will play some more music just for two more minutes.
And, yeah, we'll get started very shortly.
Oh, hey there.
Sorry to interrupt your
day.
Zerk here
just thought we might chat
if that's okay.
The science behind
whatever seems interesting.
No big production, just some thoughts worth considering.
Might learn something new about the cosmos today.
Or maybe just ask questions in a curious way.
Sorry if we go on tangents That tends to happen, eh
But that's where the good conversations lead anyway
The science behind
Just wondering about together
The science behind
There we go
Do you like the AI anthems that we have?
I was wondering if you'd heard in my age. It's pretty clever. Very good.
I mean, we actually had a little contest for it, and Inoya made some really dope tunes.
You can try it yourself. I've tried it myself. I'm not as good, but with Suno and ChatGPT for lyrics, it can create a pretty interesting result.
Pretty cool. Pretty cool.
You can have it for your spaces, you know.
Yeah, I like that.
It's always fun. All right, let's get the spaces started. Five minutes in, that's usually when I start these.
Let's get the spaces started.
Five minutes in, that's usually when I start these.
Once again, bottom right corner, there's a little purple bubble.
Give the space a like, give it a little retweet, drop a comment.
Always helps with the algorithm.
And today we have the pleasure, the privilege, the honor of hosting the Mr. Refractor from Prism.
How are you doing?
Not too bad.
Thanks very much.
You can call me Mr. Refractor. It's my stage name very much you can call me mr if right it's my
stage name but you can uh you can call me ollie if you prefer either is good i i really prefer
so lots has happened since our last space i think our last space was like six months ago
something like that you know we're just people were were playing with prism um kind of was growing
and now i mean now you guys have launched your token you had the lvp i think was very successful
i know a lot of mad scientists participated in the event as well, and they are happy.
So let's kind of, you know, I know six months is a lot to cover, but let's start at the beginning.
I kind of like to have the show that people have never heard of prison.
They can still understand what it is and what you guys are building and what's coming up next. So maybe just a quick intro about
yourself and then explain you know in layman terms what PRISM is. Yeah exactly
so I'm Oli or Mr. Refractor on Twitter. I am one of the co-founders of Refractive Labs, which is the team that built Prism.
Prism is a layer one blockchain built using the Cosmos SDK and interoperable with all other
other Cosmos L1s that are IBC enabled. So the best way to think about Prism is you have your sort of general
purpose, you know, Cosmos R1s, maybe something like Cosmos Hub or Terra or Neutron or Juno,
and then you sort of have your kind of like app chains where you get things like Osmosis or dydx or um thaw chain although that's not ipc connected and so um
you know it's probably best to think of prism as something more like a dydx or an osmosis where
we're a uh layer one blockchain that um uh has kind of unique functionality built in it uh built
in it and this unique functionality is to do do with the tokenization and trading of yield.
So that means taking any yield bearing asset and splitting out the cash flow from that for a fixed period of time.
So that allows you to monetize your future cash flow.
It allows people to speculate on whether they think cash flows will be higher or lower than the market's currently pricing them.
It allows you to buy tokens at a discount.
It allows you to earn a fixed yield on tokens.
So swap a variable yield, a variable uncertain yield for a fixed yield.
And kind of various other things and strategies like that. a variable uncertain yield for a fixed yield,
and kind of various other things and strategies like that.
And that's all kind of built into the blockchain.
And then we also have kind of unique tools built into the blockchain for trading tokenized yields.
So that's our own dedicated bespoke yield. And then we also have a DCA module,
which allows people to gaslessly gradually execute trades.
Something more similar to the kind of things
you find in TradFi.
And then we have gradual auction modules.
We've also got kind of a liquid voting module.
We create our own liquid staking derivatives
as well as accepting external liquid staking derivatives.
So we have a liquid staking module as well.
So yeah, so that's kind of like a little bit about Prism.
And then in terms of, you know, where we're up to now,
we ran Mainnet Beta for a few months and then we've uh had main main
mainnet which i think was just live when we talked last time um and then we uh have now just uh
recently launched our token um we launched our token on uh natively on our own chain, on our own decentralized exchange,
kind of giving the opportunity mainly to our users
and people that were familiar with Prism.
And that process is done now.
The token is out there.
So, yes, it's been kind of like good for the community
who participated in that,
but also community that have been participating for a long time
and have been earning tokens as we go.
And now kind of, you know, our focus is adding utility,
finding and adding interesting assets to allow people to tokenize and trade yield on,
to allow people to tokenize and trade yield on.
And then adding different products
and protocols on top of Prism.
And then also, you know,
those will also be operating on Ethereum as well.
Very cool.
Yeah, a lot to unpack there.
Great intro.
I love it.
You know what?
I really like your new catchphrase i don't know
if i can use that or maybe that's too which one your future your future yield today i feel like
that's new right that yeah what it was before exactly fine tuning something that trying to make it sound less abstract
yeah it's so easy to explain because every time that you know i understand what prism is but i
feel like sometimes you you need to kind of listen to really understand but this four words i i you
know you get it from the top so your future yield today that's what prism allows you to do it allows you to bank
on that future yield so that's a really cool i don't know whoever's in marketing or whoever
came up with this i really like it it's the same person that came up with your theme tune actually It's so good, man. All right.
All right.
Let's get into, you know, right from the start, you kind of said you can see Prism as this L1 app chain and kind of compared it to, I guess, these specialty chains, DYDX, Osmosis, maybe Stargaze, things like that.
What do you think of, you know, having your own chain?
And I've asked you this question before, but I like to revisit it. What do you think of having
your own chain instead of being an app on top of Ethereum or Solana or, you know, Hyperliquid,
I guess, something like that, where there's a lot of traffic already,
and you just kind of plug into them instead of them plugging into you.
So what made you decide to build this L1 as an app chain
and even using the Cosmos SDK?
Yeah, it's a lot of...
I mean, there's a ton of reasons,
but I guess the main ones boil down to, we do a very product first approach.
So if we were to build the very best product that we could build, that has all the functionality that we want it to have, what's best to do?
Build with smart contracts or build with custom modules?
And you can only build with custom modules if if uh you're building your own blockchain and so we started to look at what you
could do with both of those and for what we needed to do for prism uh we really needed to build with
custom modules um it is it's like literally impossible to build
what we've built with smart contracts.
And that simple stuff,
like one of the cool things with the Cosmos SDK,
is you can have validators running logic
at the end of every chain.
So for example, like we have an Oracle module
that reports in exchange rates each block.
That's like a pretty decentralized way of doing it rather than relying on some sort of multi-sig Oracle.
We then also have the blockchain.
I mentioned this DCA module, for example.
The blockchain will, you know, at the end of every block, it will go and check which tokens need to be swapped
and how much needs to be swapped
for each person that's doing a DCA.
It'll run logic to see if, you know,
one person's order can be matched
with another person's order gaslessly
or whether to swap on the AMM.
That happens at every single block automatically.
Like no one needs to send a message to make it happen
or send a transaction to make it happen. It just automatically happens due to the kind of blockchain logic
um you know we just did our liquidity bootstrapping pool for our token um and we have like various other
functionality in our amm that you know handles auctions for example all of this is done at the blockchain level so it's kind of
like the first time ever there's been an lbp where it's done at the blockchain level rather than smart
contract level so if for people that have been familiar with you know liquidity bootstrapping
pools before what happens is you know if it's on a smart contract platform for example
You know, if it's on a smart contract platform, for example, the weight of the pool might start off at 99.1.
And then the operator or the admin will then need to send a message to update the contract, say, OK, change the weights now to 98.2.
And then they'll need to send another message to say, OK, do it to 97.3, for example.
Whereas, like, that requires all these manual
messages it can kind of like be front run and um and uh you know add in like admin operator and
owner risk um and with uh with our modules you know this this is automatically done at the end
of every block so rather than like, you know,
someone needing to send a message,
it just goes, okay, we need to lower the weight
by this amount every single block.
And that like automatically happens
without anyone needing to send a message.
So when you build with your own blockchain,
you have both tools available to custom modules
and smart contracts.
And I think for pretty, you know, know for 99 of what we've built uh where we had the opportunity to build with both we've we've chosen
to build with custom modules and that's the reason that hyperliquid is its own you know is its own
blockchain that's the reason dydx is its own blockchain um because you do way more powerful
stuff with that and i think also you
know when you start building with smart contracts unless you sort of burn the admin key the smart
contract is controlled by uh you know a multi-sig basically and so you know whether whether you sort
of like it or not or you're happy with it or not, like you're effectively just sending your,
you're sending your tokens off to be controlled by,
you know, a couple of geezers with moustaches
who like trendy music.
And you don't know that, you know,
it's by their good graces that they don't rug you,
but they could rug you at any point
or their keys could get compromised.
Whereas when stuff is on a blockchain,
it requires like the validators to collude
to kind of like take funds.
So it's, you know, smart contracts are a lot less
decentralized and a lot higher risk in my view as well.
So it was mainly product,
product and building the best one we could.
And then decentralization and lack of smart contract
risk that kind of made us want to build our own blockchain. Yeah, it makes total sense now that
you mentioned all the reasons. I mean, being able to develop better products, safer. I think
everybody agrees with that.
Funny enough, you mentioned this multi-sig story.
There was recently a vault on Hyperliquid,
again, managed by a multi-sig quote-unquote smart contract.
It was supposed to be the tokenized HLP thing.
And they took all the people's funds
and then they started to farm DeFi on AVAX. They just bridged around to HyperLevel
and went to like some DeFi farm on AVAX.
Like, oh, we're, you know, vault managers,
but that's not what people sign up for.
Absolutely, man.
Yeah, and it doesn't, it's stat, but it doesn't surprise me.
Yeah, but let's get back to the structure.
I mean, you mentioned here um you want to build it out
with modules and the token right like the fact that this is cosmos sdk and you guys enabled ibc
is trading on osmosis and i believe with you know with the recent tech that cosmos has developed
that's why you guys are eyeing eth as well in terms of integrations, correct?
Yeah, exactly. So we've now onboarded, I think we were the first, you know, first Cosmos chain to onboard kind of the largest yield bearing stable coin.
So Skys, USPS, which I think is like a seven or eight billion stable coin or something like that.
And we were only able to do that because of IBC Eureka.
So now people can kind of trade yield on the sky savings rate.
And likewise, you know, when we launch these future products on Ethereum as well as Prism,
you know, tokens will be able to seamlessly transfer between the two
Thanks to IPC Eureka
So that's kind of the vision here for y'all is to expand these other chains by offering
Yield that you can't see because I'm not sure or
You know, I'm not sure there's a similar product within
the web3 ecosystem your future yield today i think this is still you guys are kind of the pioneers
well there's so when we started when we started out it was us um on a project called pendle uh
which is now you know pendle's absolutely massive i think they've got like eight billion tvl or something like that and they they've uh they built on ethereum with smart contracts um
and their product is has found amazing product market fit as a kind of like almost like a
stable coin launch pad um where they kind of spit out the yield from stable coins and then offer points to the people
that are holding the future yield tokens.
And, you know, this is kind of like,
allowed these tokens to effectively be greater
than some of their parts.
So I've got a bit of a flywheel going
where TBL ramps up massively.
And I think, you know, so it's kind of like,
they're probably, you know, the other main one that we look at,
and they've done a great job with that.
And I think we're sort of focusing on a little bit of a different niche
because there isn't this huge stablecoin market in Cosmos.
But what there is is lots of interesting and volatile yield
and an ever-larger growing amount of proof of stake assets with interesting
yields.
So we have that side of it.
And then also our protocols, they've become more of kind of like a points launch pad.
And we're sort of trying to look how would, how would yield curves trace,
how would long dated yield tokens trade,
that sort of stuff.
but,
but obviously we can do the short term stable coins and point,
points markets as well.
But yeah,
so they,
they're actually,
you know,
they found amazing product market fit on Ethereum.
I feel it's a little different though.
I don't know.
Maybe it's just my impression of, of how they built theirs out and,
and you guys offering what you offer.
But you can correct me,
you know,
I think,
I mean,
like they have tokenization and trading of yield.
So similar,
similar in that respect,
their AMN is very different.
It just focuses on one maturity in each liquidity pool.
We have kind of like a multi-maturity liquidity pool
because we built with our own blockchain.
We have the ability to add and remove maturities
from the liquidity pool automatically as they expire
and as they get added into the yield curve.
Yeah, I think they've got, you know, I'm just looking at it now, they've got six and a half billion TVL.
I think it's like a one and a half billion FTV protocol now.
So they've done a great job.
It's very popular because, yeah, they're on the EVM.
I saw them on Hyper EVM not long ago.
And, you know, it's easy for them to move.
I guess that was kind of my question initially as well, you know,
in terms of apps versus having a chain,
but you have ultimately more flexibility.
And I feel like this kind of validates your thesis about trading yield, period.
Yeah, exactly.
I think, you know, I think we wanted to build for a world where, you know, things like global stocks and global bonds and that sort of stuff all come on chain.
And you're able to trade those in a decentralized way where you're not sort of just trusting, you know, where you have institutions that don't necessarily want to trust multi-sigs on protocols
um and so you know i think i think we think that there'll be lots of custom blockchains that get
built to issue um these tokens like on those doing with their uh equity total return tokens
um so pretty soon i think they i forget the exact number that they said the other day but they're going to be launching pretty soon with kind of
tier 1 stocks
and ETFs
and they're all going to be tokenized and they're all going to have
a yield associated with them if they're paying dividends
and so now actually like for the first time
ever you're going to be able to trade tokenized
dividends which is
you know
super cool like if you know no one in the world gets to
apart from you know elite hedge funds and institutions at the moment gets gets to trade
tokenized dividends as soon as these ondo total return tokens launch you're going to be able to
you know on prism you're going to be able to trade you know trade tokenized dividends you're
going to be able to sell your future tesla yield or you're going to be able to sell your future tesla yield or
you're going to be able to like speculate on whether you think tesla dividends are going to
be higher than the market's currently pricing and you're going to be able to do this in a
in tokenized format in whatever country you are where you have an internet connection which
is is really cool because trading dividends isn't is not possible unless you have a derivative agreement with an investment bank.
Yeah, I mean, the sky's the limit in terms of creativity here.
I feel even the last six months, this was not, maybe we're kind of talking about these experiments,
We're kind of talking about these experiments, but the suits are coming into the space and there's lots of interest in, you know, these yield opportunities, these DeFi opportunities, tokenized stocks, tokenized whatever that generates yield.
have you seen the excitement like have institutions reach out to you to kind of learn more about how
they can implement prism uh for their future crypto investments of whatever kind yes so
we've had some really interesting conversations i think it's um people are really interested in
the technology i think they want to see you you know, there's certain assets that institute like proper institutions want to trade, you know, which which isn't necessarily the ones that we've immediately got available just because, you know, when we when we launched, we wanted to do Cosmos native assets.
And to be honest, like what we found with institutions is they don't really want to punt around in in, you know, Osmosis yieldield or Celestia Yield, for example,
they're much more interested in these RWAs and what they can do there,
whether it's from a...
Please chill our bags, man.
Our Cosmos tokens.
Tell them how interesting they are.
But, yeah.
Exactly.
But, yeah, so, definitely has there definitely has been
interesting stuff but i think that i think it's more going to be focused around um you know the
major assets so bitcoin is um some of the some of the stable coins but not you know the lower the lower quality flag um and then i think that uh you know
these real world assets is definitely what's you know from the conversations we've had is going to
be really interesting for people to do stuff with um and i think i feel and by real world you mean
like stocks just kind of exactly i think i initially, I think it's something like,
the easiest ones are just to tokenize existing securities.
So things like ETFs and stocks
and fixed income instruments.
So US treasuries, which are kind of already tokenized
in a way with things like on those USDY, but, you know, you might then start getting emerging markets, you know,
you might be able to trade like, you know, Ecuador or, you know, or I'm just trying to
think, or like Venezuela debt or something like that.
That'd be like the meme coin of securities, right? Like those high risk, and sorry if I
offend anybody, but, you you know kind of emerging markets
better yield and perhaps way more risk too yeah like that was that was when i was um
when i was working in fixed income at um uh uh it was at jp morgan at the time and they um
and we started trading with hedge funds a lot of Greek sovereign debt during the Greek crisis.
And the yields on that made stable coins look like they're really boring.
And then Argentina defaulted.
You had Venezuela debt trading at like 20 cents, 10 cents on the dollar.
So there was some super interesting stuff for people to do and like really high rewards,
you know, potential risk reward for people on this stuff.
And I think once all this gets tokenized and access gets a bit more democratized,
I think it's going to be really cool because, you know, for example, like Greece needed to, you know,
we did a, when I was at JP Morgan,
we did like a refinancing deal for some Greek debt,
a Greek government debt.
And, you know, the opportunity only gets offered out to institutions,
where it's like, once this stuff gets tokenized,
and people can be like, yeah, like, why wouldn't I want to be part of an opportunity here
where I can, like, you know, get some Greek sovereign debt risk
and I can be earning 30, 40, 50% yield
or whatever you end up doing.
And so I think that stuff's going to be,
I think that stuff's going to be really interesting when it comes.
I think it's probably going to be more, you know,
you know, the emerging market side or the lower
credit rating sovereigns are going to be going to be really really interesting
for people to do and there's you know there's the the individual issuance size
of these fixed income instruments is is high so there's normally quite a lot of
liquidity so things good yeah I think stuff's going to be really interesting.
And we want to try to position ourselves for that stuff.
I mean, yeah, I can just see it.
You know, I own some Greek debt and I can even see people starting making memes, communities out of it.
It's all on chain, right so i can see crypto
culture kind of coming in but okay i think i i like the last phrase you said which is we're
trying to position ourselves so what would it take you know you mentioned pendo um i feel they're
still a little different but that being said what would it take for y'all to expand on the prison adoption,
market share, however you want to call it?
Yeah, I think it's
interesting
to type into products that people want to
trade. So I think it's
as more our WAs
get issued, which I think is going to be happening soon.
And then
I think
in terms of positioning for it i think we've done the right
thing in like building the best product that we could be decentralizing the ownership of the
chain more and more i think it is going to be increasingly important so that people can
see that this isn't you know this isn't just a smart contract controlled by a multi-sig um i think also uh you know it's going to be um it's going to be
important as you know more functionality comes in people can interact with these things with um
you know different wallets so whether that's metamask etc um and i think the cosmos evm
module that's coming soon will help with that. I think for institutions, we need more
proper custody solutions for institutions on Cosmos. So I think, and, you know, we've had
some good conversations with people about those kind of things. So I think that will definitely
help with institutions deploying more capital in Cosmos because at the moment there's definitely a very strong preference for ETH for institutions and where they're deploying capital for the conversations we've had with Costo. really care that it runs on the Ethereum blockchain or for them, as long as the product
is good, it's decentralized, and perhaps there's some ETH connection.
I think you mentioned earlier Hyperliquid, it's its own chain, kind of bridges through
Arbitrum, and now there's a few more.
But, you know, it's kind of its own thing, doesn't really run as an L2.
you know it's kind of its own thing doesn't really run as an l2 so yeah is that kind of
one of their pain points the fact that it doesn't run on the blockchain ethereum or
it's more the onboarding and the friction of jumping through some of the cosmos hoops
i think it's i think it's it's onboarding and friction is one thing. And then I think the other thing is, you know, these, you know,
financed institutions, whether it be the buy side,
which is hedge funds and asset managers or the sell side, which is, you know,
brokers and investment banks.
I think all of these people are looking at pricing risk, you know, ultimately.
And if you're pricing risk, then, you know, all of these chains should have a premium associated with them.
So, I mean, if you were to be like, look, I'm going to hold, in really simple terms,
I'm going to hold USDC on Ethereum and earn some yield. I'm going to hold usbc on ethereum and earn some yield i'm going
to hold some usbc on solana and then some yield i'm going to hold some usbc on uh you know l2 and
then some yield and then i'm going to hold usbc on some you know saga and then some yield like
if you're if you're an institution you're going to need to get paid a lot more yields
to hold your token on Saga
than you are going to need to hold your token on Ethereum.
So if you're, and yes, you can get paid for that yield,
which basically just, you know,
happens for like retail users
because these things,
the market ends up pricing these things.
And if you're trading on a some sort of shitcoin um
l1 then uh you know you definitely need to be taking higher yield to compensate you for the
risk that you're taking um and if you're an institution it might end up being even more
of a barrier to entry for you to the point where you're like well even though the yield is super
high like it's not worth the risk for me um doing that and the risk isn't compensating me and i don't want to be held on some you know
some kind of like random uh random l1 so it's kind of like a combination of infrastructure
custodians um and and pricing the risk and whether the risk is worth it
yeah so those are kind of the discussions
that you're having probably is, you know,
we're an L1, we have validators, it's secure.
It's technically, you said it,
more secure than an app on Ethereum.
That was kind of my question around this, right?
Like one is a multi-sig with three
people, maybe four. I don't know how much they have on these multi-sigs anymore. And the other
one is a whole kind of blockchain. So in essence, to me, it feels riskier to deposit your money
within a money market on ETH than a whole chain like Prism.
I don't know, but you can.
Exactly.
I think if you're, say, for example,
you're a non-native crypto hedge fund
where you manage wealth for some private individuals
and they'd like some crypto exposure,
are you going to say to them,
if your job is to be a good steward of their money,
I think you'd say,
and to put your LPs, your limited partners,
put the safety of their funds as one of your veryPEs, your limited partners, but like, you know, the safety of their funds
is, you know, one of your very top priorities.
Like, are you going to go, you know,
am I going to drop my tokens into Athena
and start farming, you know, farming stats with Athena?
Like, definitely not.
Like, am I going to put my token in,
am I going to put some token into Bitcoin
and just hold native Bitcoin? Yeah. Am I going to put my token in am i going to put some token into bitcoin and just hold native bitcoin yeah am i gonna wrap my bitcoin and then go and deposit it into some
you know random farm somewhere absolutely not um am i going to maybe like deposit it into
something like ave or sky or something that you, has like a really long track record to it, you know,
where you can probably ring up the team and be like, look, you know,
I need some sort of sworn off-chain attestation as to who holds these
multi-sig keys. You know, I need an attestation from them that, you know,
they are the only person that knows that multi-sig key and they haven't shared multi-sig key with other people,
et cetera, et cetera.
Like maybe then you start going down the risk curve
and being in, you know, going into like Aave and stuff like that.
But like, I think if you, you know,
if you properly manage people's money then,
and, you know, they're not, they're not okay with crypto,
then you really need to be careful about the risks you're taking. and they're not au fait with crypto,
then you really need to be careful about the risks you're taking.
And to be honest, that's why it's such an exciting time in crypto for me still,
because you have institutions like that that can't take the risk.
So that means that retail users get to go and know, get to go and take these risks.
And obviously there's risk reward to it.
But if everyone was doing it, the price of these things would be different.
And you wouldn't be getting the, you know, the upside potential that you get.
So, you know, I love that we segued into retail because we're mostly talking about institutions.
I love that we segued into retail because we're mostly talking about institutions.
And I guess the question was almost about how you can onboard institutions to prison or even crypto as a whole.
What about retail?
I feel, I don't know, it's my impression that wasn't much retail trading on chain or even participating on chain this cycle.
I feel a lot of them bought the coin stock, the Robinhood stock, you know, the circles, the Bitcoin on an exchange.
And ETH perhaps through an ETF, whatever it is.
But not, you know, participating actively like we've seen last cycle in some of the more degenerate on-chain things you can do.
I don't know.
Is it your impression?
Like your users, are they native crypto users
or you saw some new folk coming in,
like maybe one year or six months in Web3?
Yeah, I think it's kind of a case of,
you know, retail users, yeah,
I think it's been quieter.
When you look across Cosmos,
when you look at kind of like the active users
on chains on a daily basis,
the number's definitely lower.
Look at GWE today, like E4K and GWE is like two GWE, right?
Remember it was like 200 back then,
or you used to pay like a
thousand dollars for a swap now it's like 10 bucks if you know it's super busy time yes it's
it's a one gwe it's like 0.11 or something like that for three gwe but yeah like um yeah but i
don't but yeah it's hard to know like and i guess everyone you know if you have a crystal
ball then it's easy it's easy to make a lot of money on this stuff but you know we definitely
not know obviously like we haven't seen the silly season that we saw where you know every uber driver
was talking about what crypto to buy and you know what nfts they owned and that sort of stuff um
and so i don't know
whether i don't know whether we're all we're all waiting for this this time to come around but um
if you know maybe with each hitting 4k you start to see um you start to see a little bit more of
that if it's kind of like ends up the rally ends up being sustained um but i think like you know retail retail like
making money and retail you know the best marketing for crypto is when someone in crypto goes and
tells their mate outside of crypto that um they're just making an absolute truckload of money in
crypto and then you start getting everyone else piling in and then it ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy for a while.
That's at least what I found with 2022, you know, when you started to, everyone was talking
about it, everyone started ringing you up being like, you know, what should I buy?
What should I do?
You know, because they've heard their mates made some money and so they want to make some
money.
And then, you know, I'm sure it'll get to that stage again.
It's just kind of like which stuff ends up rising to the top when that happens.
So you're saying we're just early in the cycle, basically.
You know, institutions bought all this Bitcoin
and perhaps they're buying ETH as well.
Having, I know, bought some JPEGs.
I've seen some of the NFTs run a little bit,
but no alt season and no real on-chain participation.
And perhaps that is because, you know, like you said,
it's still, it's going to trickle down
once ETH sustains 4K or 5K or whatever that is.
Is that kind of the thesis here?
I think so i think you've got um i think you've got some huge eth treasury companies now starting to buy ethereum so um
sbet and uh bit digital a couple of others i think um and so they've been you know buying
absolutely loads i think there's been some huge OTC trades as well.
So they haven't necessarily been buying on the open market.
I think that stuff, I feel like it'll definitely help.
And yeah, so I don't know.
Maybe I've been drinking the Kool-Aid too long and I've got stock time
syndrome,
but I feel like tokenization is such a huge unlock.
And like,
for me,
like crypto isn't about,
you know,
I think that,
I think the decentralization meme and DeFi meme is,
it's kind of,
you know,
was what was talked about a lot more in 2022 than it is now.
But I think like the massive unlock for me is like being able to tokenize things and what you can do with those tokens when you have them.
And then also, you know, democrat now buy u.s treasury exposure via usdy without needing to set up like a u.s
broker account or you know buying an etf with your broker in your own country and then kind of like
managing all the currency risk etc with them um so i think i feel like that stuff's such a huge
unlock that there has to be you know huge opportunities
coming for people that are early in this stuff
but I think
I just don't know
if the timing of it I just don't know when it's going to come
but I refuse to believe
that totalisation and
all of this is just going to end up
kind of like passing by and just kind of being a fad
and that we're not going to see like
you know another really really strong old season at some point soon.
Yes, please, please.
Okay.
Later, but, you know, you mentioned a great point.
I don't want to say this word, but I'm going to say mirror protocol back then, right?
Like people are so excited about trading securities in, you know,
their country, which was no exposure at all to these stocks.
It was possible for them.
And with that, you could do it.
And now we have all these,
and now it seems like it's the new thing of tokenized stocks, right?
Like, oh, it's so cool, but it's been done before.
And now trading yield on those stocks that's really exciting so what assets i mean you already talked about
securities but any other assets that you're really excited integrating into prism so yeah so so
obviously obviously like yeah as we discussed like tokenized stocks i think it's going to be
super interesting um i think that uh more of the larger yield bearing stable coins would be cool
so like athena uh their susde has you know i want to say like six billion market cap at the moment
um actually usde itself is like 10 billion market caps. These kind of things have, I guess, crossed the Rubicon now and are pretty interesting.
And so, you know, that's for sure.
I think that, you know, soon you're going to be able to earn decent years on your Bitcoin via Babylon when they start opening up their Bitcoin bridge they
already have a load of TVL that's deployed there so I think that's going to be pretty exciting in
there also Bitcoin native chain sorry a Cosmos native chain with IBC so I think that's going
to be a really cool opportunity so yeah so it's kind of like major assets and major securities
I think the ones that you know are probably the most
interesting for for us but the way that the chain works um anyone can kind of propose an asset that
they would like to uh trade yield on and then they can also you know the governance also chooses which
maturities you get to trade yield on so if someone's got you know there's some super interesting liquidity event for one particular token at a particular time people that people
can kind of like spin up a market on that and trade it so you know i it it's kind of those
it's sort of just things that i'm personally excited about but overall it's kind of like
you know we want it we want it to be like community led
yeah i'm excited to see what people come up with probably maybe the yield on something we've never
seen before i don't know perhaps you mentioned some big cap you know uh options but maybe there's
like a smaller cap thing that could create some really crazy apy
i don't know you you've probably seen more than me in terms of uh things that are interesting and
exciting and experimental yeah i mean the um we don't have the days anymore of like the
2000 apy for several months on Mirror Protocol but I think yeah
I felt like I was such a
genius when I did that one
I was like holy shit this is you know
I'm an LP with
I think it was the
stocks that they had
they had like some Amazon you know
like I LP to Amazon I was like Amazon's
not going anywhere like get some yield out of that it was so easy absolutely brilliant wasn't it um simple times
oh all right cool so yeah perhaps not 2000 but still we'll see some some interesting stuff pop
up one of the questions you know, we have discussed this previously,
and I think you even mentioned the example a few years ago as well.
We're talking about bringing assets in, right?
Like, that's one thing, earning yield.
That's cool.
But one of the interesting options or ideas was spending your yield remember that where you can kind of
deposit some you know whatever and then that pays your netflix bill for the rest of the year
something like that like spending uh or integrating yield into payments basically
yeah exactly so like you know might, you might at the moment
you might say like have some atom states
on the Cosmos hub and you might check,
you might be like, okay, I've got a hundred atom states,
but you know, I'm going to stake it.
And then I'm going to use my staking rewards to,
you know, you know, fund some stuff in my lifestyle.
And so, you know, every time you kind of like manually claim your staking rewards
and then dump them and then, you know, convert it to fiat,
then you sort of have to repeat this process kind of like ad nauseum,
you know, and say you do it first.
Say you're like, okay, well, I'm going to do it for a year,
kind of like to fund my costs.
With Prism, you could actually just be like, okay, well, I can actually just sell a year's worth of my atom yield up front right now um and
get all of my money up front and then i can use that um i can use that to kind of like put in a
bank account and use it for my expenses as we go and then i don't have to like manually sort of
play my yield and sell it every time and i don't have to take you know if i like the price of atom at the moment if atom
you know shoots up to six seven eight something like that then someone's going to offer me a much
better price than you know for a year's worth of my atom yield when the price is trading at four
so if you uh if you kind of like like okay well like adam's trading great at the moment i
want to monetize a year's worth of my future yields um and get some cash then like you can
yeah you can absolutely do these kind of things i think the hope is that you know we'll see some
interesting protocols and interesting use cases build on top of this um with you know with prism
with, you know, with Prism.
Yeah, I think that's such a super cool concept
and people, many, you know,
within the Cosmos ecosystem
are probably staking.
Hence, they're already kind of in this,
they could have the option
to sell the yield right now.
And yeah, maybe, I don't know,
buy something nice, pay for netflix whatever it is
yeah exactly exactly like i think uh i think it's you know we like you're holding a token that paid
you staking rewards is something you know and it's like holding a really really volatile currency
um you know and if there's if there's good opportunities to do it then you know it's it
can be pretty profitable for people.
I think also, you know, then you just get you then also kind of like creating a market for traders where, you know, someone could be like, well, I always want to hold 100 atoms worth of exposure.
But, you know, I'm happy to Atom price is trading at seven, you know, and then I'll buy back my 100 yield tokens when Atom's trading at five or whatever.
And so you can sort of trade around the token price whilst keeping your underlying exposure.
And it sort of gives, you know, all of this kind of like creates a really good two-sided market.
you know, all of this kind of like creates a really good two-sided market.
Yeah. Again, lots of ideas to explore with this. I want to get back to you guys,
because we're talking about, you know, these experiments that could happen,
but what you can do right now today on Prism is you can deposit and buy you know prism with usdc and earn i think the rewards
are pretty crazy right like it's 60 what is it or uh correct well on one of our on our main pool we've
set um we kind of like in the spirit of the way the prism works and all the stuff we've set a
uh a high fixed yield so like a guaranteed yield for
people that are um providing liquidity so at the moment it's kind of 200 guaranteed yields plus
some variable yields 200 what i was off man exactly so we've done that on like the prison on one pool another pool is 100 percent um and the aim of that is just you know i think we we don't have we didn't do a private sale
um we don't have vts or anything like that we want to get tokens out to the community
so like giving you know a decent chunk of tokens at the start to community that you know otherwise
would have gone to you know vts or private investors like that's kind of what we want to do so that we've got a
decent uh you know so that our market cap to fdv is not you know some crazy low ratio um and that
we're putting tokens into the hands of like you know prison prison power users rather than kind of like private capital.
Nice. Very cool.
So 200% yield on,
on some of the prism liquidity pools, right?
Exactly.
And so what we said is like,
we'll pay out that yield either until 2% of the tokens are paid out, 2% of prism suppliers paid is paid out, or until three months are up.
And I think it's been pretty popular
at the moment. I think about
something like 20 to 30%
of the 2% have been
paid out now.
Nice.
Very cool. So yeah,
take advantage of those incentives
because they're not forever.
So yeah.
If you want to get that 200 200 it's rare you get that nowadays so uh jump in give give the prism account a follow as well
join their discord they got uh or their tg uh they got lots of things happening in there too
any other call to action you have for the community before I forget and move on to other questions?
What would I say?
No, I mean, we have a really good community.
I think there's a pretty, you know,
there's a pretty steep learning curve on Prism,
or not a steep learning curve,
but there's lots of things to do on Prism.
And the best way to learn is, in my view,
is kind of, you know, send over a very small amount and start messing around.
Click through each of the different things, you know, do very small transactions.
The gas is super cheap on Prism.
We can even send you some AAU tokens, which is kind of like our meme coin that we use to pay for gas um as well so like we
can send it over to people that want to try it out and you know and then we've got a you know
there are quite a lot of power users of prism now that are always happy to help out as well as the
team um in discord and telegram and kind of like help people figure out different ways to use it
so i'd say that and then you know being part of the prison
community owning the prison token you know the the reason to do that is um you know shaping the
future of the protocol uh you know earning your share of kind of like the revenue protocol accrues
um and then also you know we want to get some of the sort of, you know, similar kind of ethos to, you know,
what was the good stuff that was happening on Terra,
where all the protocols were launching on top of Terra
and Prism token holders, you know,
get a stake in those protocols.
You know, those protocols increase the utility
of the Prism tokens and also generate revenue for Prism,
but also then, you know, you're getting airdrops,
protocols, tokens in these protocols as well.
So you're gonna have kind of like multiple different,
you know, tokens in multiple different products.
So you're gonna end up being diversified
if you kind of like come and join the community early on.
So I think, yeah, the best thing is,
follow the socials and mess around and just asking TG and Discord and plenty of people happy to help out.
Nice. Love to hear it.
And for those not familiar, build an incredible product on Terra as well.
It wasn't for the whatever.
It would be extremely successful.
And Pendle being at a billion market cap you guys being you know to me
better builders let's just say because they're not here way more upside uh i always like to you know
since we are an nft project i have to ask about jpegs a little bit I mean, anything you can tell us about, you know,
NFTs or, or prison integration within NFT.
Yeah. So we've got, exactly. So we've got a, um,
we've done an art collection for, uh, what we call refracted beasts. Um,
and, uh, you know, we're now looking at,
we've been working with the background team, who
obviously you guys are working, you guys know well as well, to launch this NFT section.
So we're kind of like working on finding, getting what they need on the artwork so that
we can then get this thing launched.
But yeah, I think, you know, we want to have a collection on Prism, more than one collection
on Prism, but hopefully Refractive Beast is going to be the first one that we do.
Nice.
I didn't know if this was out, if we were allowed to talk about this.
Let's do it.
I'm happy you went there.
Let's do it.
I think we're excited.
All right.
Refracted Beast, first NFT collection coming to Prism.
How does one get whitelist? I mean, I got to ask.
It's going to be, so it's going to be,
the plan is that you're going to pay for it with the AWU token.
So people are, so yeah,
so it's basically just earn the AWU token and then that is your whitelist slash unlock the door for
you there we go get get the token you'll be able to mip the jpegs on top and have you guys thought
about integrating some interesting mechanics you know like prism aligned mechanics within NFT.
I think NFT five is a cool concept.
I've seen a lot of experiments on osmosis and elsewhere. So yeah.
Anything else that you can tell us about the utility of these?
I mean, I mean, more would just like love to be fun. Like, you know,
it's more like the issue inside, but I think it's cool.
Like, obviously, the experiment you guys did with StreamSwap was really cool.
I think we've got, you know, we really like the idea of people paying for NFTs with their future yield.
So we'd love to set, you know, we'd love to have like a bit more of a launchpad where people can do that.
At the moment, people are able to pay for backbone
sole token with their future yield um which is cool we'd love to see more of that with like
for nft collections as well where you get like you know you you can buy the token that will buy
your nfts with your future yields um so it kind of allows people to do that. So those kind of things I'm very excited about.
Nice.
I'm excited for this mint as well.
I love Janice's collections.
This one, I also saw the art a little bit.
I think you showed it to me a while ago.
It's really cool.
Very unique.
So definitely worth trying to get the mint this one.
I hope so.
I got to show it.
You don't.
I'm trying to mint this one.
Alright, man. Anything else you want to
share with the audience? We're at the top of the
hour. I know you're...
It's the weekend, or the beginning of the weekend
where you're at.
very much
appreciate everyone tuning in
and hope everyone has a good weekend
and then I'm just
looking at the comments to see if there's anything we missed
I'll let you and my boy
earn while you learn exactly
that is a good mantra for Prism
earn while you learn
and you can earn the Aoi token while you learn as well.
So that'll be a fun one.
But yeah, other than that, thanks very much for having us.
And I hope everyone has a good weekend.
Well, I appreciate y'all sharing what you guys have been building.
Appreciate what you are building.
I think it's super important for the ecosystem.
Looking forward to the NFT collection once more.
Join their Discord, join their TG,
follow their social right here on X.
200% APY on some of the Prism liquidity pools
on their chain.
And yeah, looking forward to seeing how it all grows.
Thanks again, Mr. Refractor, Ali.
Thank you very much.
And have a lovely weekend, everybody.
Bye-bye.
