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Cardano Over Coffee ☕️ Jenny Banter 🫶
Recorded: June 17, 2026 Duration: 2:22:34Space Recording
Full Transcription
Okay, I don't like that. So I have to get rush myself here to get rid of that thing.
I don't know why this bothers me, but good morning. It is Cardano over coffee. It is Wednesday.
I have not been drinking coffee, but I think I need a cup of coffee today.
I hope you're having a beautiful day. We don't have any guests today, so it'll be
just another banter Wednesday. Oh. Feel free to share the space, reach to the room, get
more people in here. Also, feel free to come up and hang out. It's just a beautiful Cordana day,
like it always is. Love to see your faces. I see Chapp coming up here. Haven't seen you in a minute,
Chapp. How are you doing? Good, Jenny. How's things with you? Things are great.
Been busy taking care of my cat. Decides one day that he's dying, another that he wants to live,
and he keeps me pretty busy. But how are you doing? Good. We just got done with the NASCAR weekend
here at my place of employment, and we had probably two hundred seventy thousand people on property.
Wow! Hustle, hustle, huh? That's like yeah, crazy fast speed. In fact, you know, like
that that environment's like pretty crazy, like. Fast, fast, fast. Dynamic, they like to call. Yes,
dynamic. If you are in for a shit last, oh my gosh! I'm just getting my sleep pattern back in,
back in line now. So I saw the space pop up, and I want to stop in and say, "Hey,
I haven't seen everybody in a long time." So I know, yeah, it's been a minute.
So nice to see you up here, coming and hanging out and saying hello. You know, it's okay. It's okay.
It's okay to get busy, but you got to check in once in a while. Make sure we know everything's good.
You know, remember where home is. Yeah, remembering the watering hole days. Oh my God! Oh,
I was I was just reminiscing about that the other day. What a what a beautiful place it was.
It was it was the best bar room in Cardano. Those days are fun. Um, you know, absolutely fun.
That I can't even begin to. Yeah, I mean, it's like the good times. You always look back
and remember the good times, right? And there were good times. I don't I don't remember anything
like but a lot of just enthusiasm and excitement and just. Full of joy and and all the good stuff.
It was innocent, Jenny. It was innocent and it was pure, and it got ruined. Yeah,
I guess you know we we go through different. Nothing stays at a peak, dude.
That's just kind of how it goes, right? You gotta, you get. That's why being mindful is so important
in life. Because if you don't, if you're not mindful and you don't practice gratitude at the time
when you're living the things that you're living, then They're gone, and you feel like, oh my gosh,
you know, you didn't appreciate it. And then the only way you can really truly appreciate them is
when, when you're mindful, and you say, okay, we're going through a rough patch,
and then you can actually see when we're in a good moment, you know. And it's like, I don't know,
I just feel like it's just, it's, it's never going to stay amazingly, perfectly good with like,
you know, all this high spirits, you know. Teenager, live your life or high school enthusiast. Well,
kind of high school. I don't know. To be honest, you know, a lot of people in high school think
that that life sucks, but then they get they get out of high school, and that's when they realize,
oh shit, it wasn't so bad, right? And then people want to go back to those days,
and then it's like that's it. You enter adulthood. There's no going back. It will never be back.
You know. And so, absolutely, and you're absolutely right with practicing gratitude,
whether it be you know outwardly and also inwardly. You got to take, you got to be have gratitude
for yourself, because regardless of what shape you're in, every lily pad you jumped on
has brought you to this place, wherever you're at. Exactly. Even if it is to appreciate
the good things, just because of the bad things, you know. So it is what it is. You know,
it's been great. Um, actually, like announced today, and I pinned it up at the top as well. Um.
That I guess I'll just like take a moment before we get into things today to just address it, right?
Because not because something is wrong, but because something is real,
and I guess it deserves the right kind of space. So, basically, I'm gonna be stepping back
from Cardano over coffee. It's been many, many years now. It feels like a whole lifetime,
and I've loved my time here. I wasn't a founder. I wasn't part of the original plan.
I was just a regular, right? I used to come hang out with with Hiro and Nepak.
I moved around a lot of spaces. I hosted my own spaces. You know, we had the Wandering Hole
we just talked about. We had all this different, like, you know, conglomerate of like a small group
of people that will actually host spaces. And I used to come hang out, jump on the mic,
be part of the conversation, the way so many of you do now. This was my community before it was ever
my responsibility. So then, hero came to me. He was burned out, man, exhausted from carrying things.
Something, you know, beautiful for so long he had built with Epoch. Something that mattered,
and he didn't know if he could keep going. And he asked me for advice, and I was like, "Hell no,
you can't, can't shut it down, man. We need this space." So I couldn't let him go.
I couldn't let it go. He was still in the ecosystem, of course, but you know.
So I told him I would help. I said, "You know, what can what can I do to help you right now to make
sure that you can keep this going?" So he was just really burned out. And I said, "Okay,
let me let me take over the schedule and the bookings and take that weight off your shoulders,
" you know. And then we ended up like you know moving into more like an easier system, right,
with the link tree and all that. Before was all manual guys, and it was just chaos.
It was really it was a lot. And back in those days, we had a lot of people, and we were so busy.
I mean, this pace. You guys were booked like two months out at some point. Yeah, it was so crazy,
and you know. So then you know I started doing that. I I helped them with that,
and then I would join like I usually would to hang out, and then I started kind of co-hosting
because they also needed that. Give you know hero room to breathe because he will have to be here
every day and I know how that feels because I've been there, having to come here every day,
and to give him some room to breathe, I started doing some co hosting with Lydo
and then we got cook time as well and then we started doing Lydo you know like
the the the Wednesday crew, the famous Wednesday crew. We have a lot of fun
and that will give hero a day that he can take off. So, you know somewhere in the middle of all that
without ever being a plan, I ended up staying. And I had my own spaces before this.
I used to do all kinds of different things. Oh my God, I wasn't. I had so many different things
going on, and I set them down because I believe this was happening here was worth more than I was,
uh, than what I was doing alone at the time. Right. So that's who I am. That's where this started.
My role here, and I don't work coffee. And what I've learned in all these years of doing this is
that the most powerful thing you can build is in following is the brand.
I guess it isn't even the show. It's the culture that keeps showing up. Even when you don't,
and people come and go, we have seen it here. We've had so many wonderful co-hosts, and even Hero,
he was like the person that people would come here to listen to. He's been gone for a while now,
right? So the cup keeps showing up, and that's not an accident. That's what happens when a group
of people decide to build something bigger than any of them. And I have been so honored to be part
of, you know, to be one of those people. And I guess now I'm stepping back.
But I'm not disappearing. I'm not leaving the community. But I'm doing a stepping. No, no,
just just passing the wheel over. Yeah, so time for somebody else to wear the hat. Yeah,
you did a good job, and you made an immeasurable benefit to the Cardano community,
to Cardano itself. You fought many fights worth fighting, Jenny. I appreciate that, Chef. You know,
I'm still here and finding my. You know, I gotta grow. I usually like even at work.
I've never stayed in a job. Like doing my own projects is one thing. I can my own projects can last
a lifetime as long as I'm alive. But I've never stayed in a job for like more than a couple years.
So I feel like at some point you stop growing, and I need to kind of like move on
and learn something new. I've never been a person that needs to master something.
I just like to know to get enough skills to like build something with that, or move on
and just open roads. And I'm a people person, right? So I'm always drawn to that, and you know.
What I'm stepping into is a season that's fully mine. Things I've been building, put on the side,
ideas that are ready to move, growth that I owe myself. So I I put a lot of things on the side
to be here every day, guys. So you know, at some point you have to like say, okay, you gotta go.
You have a good team. You have a lot of people here that love and care about this thing,
and they'll keep it going. What I can tell you is that I'm stepping back into things I put down
to be here, and stepping towards things that didn't exist for me years ago.
And I'm not the same person who walked into this community as a regular.
That version of that version of me had ideas, but this version of me has the experience
to do something with those ideas. And what I want to leave you guys with this is that for the team,
I guess you know you're part of the story. Nobody else gets to see. Fully, the the shifts you cover,
when I was running on empty, the emergencies you stepped into without being asked twice,
the arguments we had, the reconciliations that followed, the laughs that came after both,
for sure we laugh a lot, even though we do argue. And the people we've met and grown to know. Yeah,
I mean we built something that looks seamless from the outside because of what we were
willing to work through on the inside. And that's a family, and I'm grateful for every version of us
this journey has produced. And I'm cheering for everyone that comes next, for each of you. So,
this show doesn't need me to survive. That's one of the things I'm most proud of.
We build something that lives beyond any one person's presence, and that only happens
when people give to it without keeping score. When they show up consistently,
not perfectly. When they appreciate what each person brings instead of
Jenny, did you rug?
Must be. Morning, Chad. Dude, I lost you guys. I'm sorry. When did I lose you? At some point,
I lost you. One seconds ago. You were at Love and Heart or something. Love and Heart. Oh my God.
I don't even know. I was just giving. Because I hardened afterward. That's why I know that.
I was giving uh I was giving the team some you know some kudos and I just you know wanted to make
sure that you know that you know that the the reason why we're still here we build
such a beautiful culture is because we consistently show up we don't try to be perfect
we just try to do our best and um you know we do it for something bigger than ourselves
and and and we just got to protect it right and um and everybody that showed up here
you know I want to thank you guys every morning you tune in every time you jump on the mic uh
to hang out with us. Every moment you sent something like to let us know that something was landing
or flopping. You gave us, you know, feedback to do better, to be better,
and gave the show its reason to keep going. Right, so the cup keeps showing up because people
like you decide it's worth showing up for. And if you ever felt that you
and If this space has ever given you something real, and you consider giving something back,
you can reach out to the team. And the show doesn't need saving. The show is doing fine,
but it needs people who care enough to carry it forward. And you know, if that's you, if that's you,
definitely give it my. You know, reach out to them. I'm gonna be hosting for another three
Wednesdays, I guess. Is it this one and two more? Yeah, probably, or something like that,
or or till July 8th. Maybe three more. I'm not sure, but I'll be here until July 8th.
And I cleared my schedule between now and then, so I'm not gonna have guests on Wednesday.
So just come hang out. Yeah, and banter. So three more Wednesdays, and yeah, I love you guys.
And this is gonna be home. I'll be I'll be coming back to hang out just like everybody else.
So the conversation continues. That's it. Cats out of the bag. Jenny, I've cried. I've smoked.
You're killing me this morning. Ah, I love you, Chad. But just just be happy. It says happy times.
So we're not going anywhere. Things are changing, and that just happens, you know. And that
and you're absolutely right, Jenny. You you hit it right on the head. You it's you never grow within
your comfort zone, and and you felt the pangs of non growth, and you you need to you need to stretch
your legs, and you need to you need to explore other territories. So I admire you. Yeah, man.
Like growth is like if we don't start growing, you start dying, man. That's just how it works.
And um, you know, then in and if you become indispensable, that's a problem.
You're not creating something sustainable. And I cannot dedicate my time
and my life to something that. Needs me like I can't. I can't. My dad used to tell me
that when I was like starting in my in the work field, right? Sometimes you get, especially
when you're young and you're like you have all these ideas and you feel like people don't take you
seriously, right? I'm sure it's happened to a lot of you when you start working.
You're like full energy and you're like in your you know late teens or early twenties
and And you get all this like you know, thirty year olds and forty year olds
out there that just don't quite look at you like you're one of them, and your ideas are just like,
oh yeah, you're cute. Thanks for for sharing, kind of thing, right? And you're like, ah, you know,
they don't understand. I have the answers to everything. And then you know,
I used to have all these conversations with my dad, and sometimes I'd be like, I'm gonna leave,
and he'll be like, Jenny, whatever you do, just don't leave until you make sure that everything that
you do is running smoothly without you. Because then people are gonna remember you
as the chaotic person that left a mess behind. So I know that people want to think
that it's right to leave and it's like people are gonna appreciate me when I'm gone
because nothing's gonna work, and that's a big mistake because that's not what happens. You know,
people appreciate it when you leave and somebody can take over and there's no messes. So you know,
he used to tell me that as a young adult and. I've always kept that as a as a thing,
and that always helped me also know when it's time for me to leave. Right, I was like,
you know what, I'm in a good place. I can pass it on. I'm I'm actually good right now.
I don't need to sustain things. I feel like right now it's a good moment to order over coffee
like that. Right, we have a good team. People can can cover. See, chat right here. He's been a star,
showing up, which is one of the most important things, guys. You know,
not being able to start the space. Has been a big challenge for us, and many times. And you know,
we all have our strengths and our things. And you know, some of us are like super dedicated
with the interviews. Some of us are like, you know, really fun with the banthers. Some,
some of us are, you know, like Chad is always here to at least start the space.
And I think that having that is like, it's already like half the battle, guys. Like. It's really,
it really sucks to not be able to like start a space because you don't have a person to start it.
You know, everything else can be fixed. That's what that's what brings in the not perfection zone.
It's just do the best you can. Just do it. Just show up. Do it. Everything else will work
and work itself out. So, so far, I mean, the reliability of being able to start a space. Guess what?
We didn't have a space yesterday because Chad couldn't host it, and nobody else could.
And Maureen got caught bank robbing tomorrow yesterday, so she couldn't make it.
It's still Chad's fault, though. No, he actually asked somebody to cover,
and the person did the cover. Yeah, the the paperwork was filed with HR.
I can confirm it was very clear on Monday. Can you? Yes. Epoch. I think Chad's still going to get
a rip for this, right? Oh yeah, yeah. No, it was Maury. No, he won't. Maury actually filed
the paperwork. He covered for somebody else. He asked like, "Okay, but can you cover this for me?
" And it was all bunch of yeses, but then a bunch of like, "Oh, I didn't really understand what
I was getting into," kind of thing. So it's funny. I didn't know Monday. It's Monday, Jenny.
I would like to hammer down the fact that consistency is what has brought Cardano over coffee.
From the starting date until now, it's been consistently there. Every morning,
it's the ride home from work. It's the wake up with coffee, check in on the family,
and see what's going on. Hell yeah! My entire family is asleep right now.
I'm like whispering in my office with my coffee that I'm clutching in silence and darkness. I'm.
I can hear you. I'm. I'm awake. I'm working on the awake. That's weird that everybody's sleeping.
I guess it's summer time. Yeah. Yeah, staying up late, Jenny. Summer time. Daddy, can we play games?
Well, that's the trick to get him to sleep late. So yeah. Let's play games. Let's play games.
I know. Give me my morning. That's literally what Chelsea told her like yesterday morning.
She was like, if you sleep in, I don't care what you do. Just like, but if you don't sleep in
and you go to bed late, we're fucked. And I was like, yeah, that's that's about right. So,
but Jenny, I'm sad to see your message today, but I totally get it, and I think it's well thought
out. You've been here five years, so thank you for the five years of dedication and contribution.
I mean, not only with your time, but you know, with costs and expenses
and just everything you've put the team first. So you're you're a true one, and you know,
I don't see this as like it's sad, but I'm not that sad because you know you're growing
and you're doing your thing and. You know you're gonna stick around. You're not leaving forever.
You're gonna be around. You'll still bust my balls about the TSC. You're probably gonna ask me
harder questions now. So you know, just remember to take it easy on me sometimes. It won't change.
I'll still be as hard. This is nothing. Hasn't changed. I'm giving you a break right now.
You're just getting in. You wait. It's got. It's gonna get hard, court. Yo,
and you gotta know that whatever Jenny's cooking, it's gonna be fire. Like, oh my god.
I've been like, actually, guys, it's just been. I've been like. It's one of the issues that I've had
that I've been working on is that I start a lot of projects and don't carry them forward,
and it's gotten worse in the past few years because you know, it's good on over coffee, right?
It's like, oh, we got this, and it's just like this. I've actually given this big priority,
and I mean, I don't regret anything. It's just you know, it's just it's just time
and the team is somewhat solid in that sense enough to keep it going. And like I said,
if you think you have what it takes to help, reach out. You know, they they they got it.
They're solid. But the turnaround coffee has lasted because we've had a lot of people come and go.
I'm just saying. Oh yeah, no, it's it's actually funny. If if things weren't good,
you would also not believe it. Like you know, like there have been times where it's rough
and you're like. Yo, this sucks, but let's get the job done. So, like,
I think it is a testament to like us having some stability in the bear market just through,
you know, sheer will, contribution, and people showing up. Not to get all sentimental and whatnot.
Absolutely, dude. I've I've I've spent moments that I'm like, I want to leave everything.
Just cover for me. I can't come back. I'll tell you when I'm ready. Oh,
every Cardano over Coffee member has quit and unquit at least nineteen times, except Chad. Epoch.
I quit twice, and I wasn't even on the staff. Yes, Jeff, I was gonna say. You know, it's funny.
Anytime someone leaves or gets upset or like some shit happens, I'm like,
I'm I am so chill about it. I'm like, you know, shit shit's crazy. We're in a volatile market,
and you know, world is also could be considered volatile. People go through shit. Like,
I just want to be the guy on the post. Like, you know, you show up to the bus stop. Like,
the bus is gonna show up. Maybe you want a coffee while you wait. You want a coffee while you wait.
That's exactly right. And it does help to be this bear market, and it does help
that because I'm not gonna lie. It's been moments. It's like, oh, waiting for the right time.
Actually, I told Epcot I was gonna do this, and I gave, I gave weeks for this day because we had
all this governance actions, and I'm like, I can't do this in the middle
of all this governance actions. We have to do all these interviews, and it's like,
and it's like one of the things always kind of like waiting for that break, right?
We have catalysts, we have this, we have like. So I at this time I was like, okay,
I'm gonna put the date, and I did it. I was like, I'm gonna put the date.
This is the date I'm gonna announce it, and that was like what five weeks ago. He booked.
It was like, oh yeah. This is like the day I'm gonna announce it, and this is the day I'm leaving,
and it's like in my calendar, so I couldn't like keep pushing it, you know, pushing it
and pushing it. Like it's like part of like what I'm working on. Like no, this is it. So
whether we have and and I even like took out Wednesdays from the calendar to make sure
that I didn't even feel like I had to prepare for. For interviews anymore to kind of help
me release from those responsibilities because it's hard, you know. You've been doing this
for so long. Prepare for interviews. Really, bear market. I should if I show up.
If I show up with pants on, you should be happy. Prepare for it. I prepare for interviews, dude.
I swear, I prepare for interviews. I really do. I do my research. I I have like I have a document
for every interview that I do. I do to have like a list of like have a document. With tabs,
the tabs have the links, the informations that I need. I do take this shit seriously,
and that's part of what I mean. You know, it's like gotta gotta stop it.
Kenny gave me access to this madness one time, and I was just like, "Oh my god,
is this how like Good Morning America does the show too?" Like, because I'm I'm I'm assuming it is.
Oh, of course, yeah. They have the bank of flagged things that you know could be grabbed and. Yeah,
no, absolutely. The tabs is definitely something I could associate with because that's
how I approach. Like, like I don't take notes in advance, but I will like I open a fresh browser,
a fresh window, and then I just like go through a search process where it's like go to the website,
go to the Twitter, open a bunch of things, and then you just you know that becomes my my data bank,
and I just like leave it there, and then maybe I pull from it. But yeah, I don't write stuff down.
That's where you got me. You know, I think. Do you have the remarkable or like what?
You must have some fancy note-taking device. Oh man, I'm actually very old school. I mean,
I do use my. I I take notes on, you know, like documents and stuff. But I have,
if you knew the amount of notebooks that I have, I write down stuff. Like I have my desk. Oh,
I have it all. I've seen you in meetings. You always got the yeah. You got the pen. The pen,
the pads. I have the book. The I I do have a like a scribe. What is the the Kindle scribe thing? Um,
but at the end of the day, I'm just very like old school. I I have like notepads
and like uh notebooks, a journal. I go. I have sticky notes. I move it into a cleaner one.
I'm very um. Like I have, the more I write, the more it just kind of sinks in. So
when I'm listening to to people talk, I just my hands just going taking notes, taking notes,
taking notes, and then I'm I can go real quick into some research and and then trying to get
some concepts in my head. And yeah, especially when you're doing things that are like
very highly technical, right? Like oh, so many things that you're learning as you as you go, right?
And I'm not a technical person, but I like to challenge myself to understand what's being, you know,
talked about. So, yeah, I can. I have this like image in my head of when we were working on,
I think, like the Cardano over coffee, like our one proposal that we put out there to Catalyst,
and we were all like on video, and I just remember we'd say some stuff,
and then like you would see like Jenny's pen move, and like it was like you had the phone
on the table so that like I could see the the pat the book and the pen and your face and you and me
and I think we can be. You know, honest about this, like we may show emotions on the face
or what we're processing or what we're thinking. So if you say something really fucking stupid,
and my face looks really fucking stupid, you can know that you said something really fucking stupid.
And we we do that. Both of us do that. We were just sitting on this call,
making like these faces of like, what the fuck are we doing? Just trying to write something down,
and you could tell like you didn't know what to write down. I was dying,
and I was really high in the garage. I remember you were propped up on a trash can,
and that's when I would smoke in the garage every day. Before my wife yelled at me. Dude,
that was like crazy times. I do, I I get like notebooks. I get nostalgic. I know.
I'm remembering those days. We we actually started a Slack. We're like even fighting
about like I don't want Slack. I don't want Discord. I don't want Slack. I want Discord. Oh my god,
it's crazy. We've tried it all, guys. Yeah, like my notebooks, dude. I even get them with.
I theme it, too. Like I have so many like I shelves of like notebooks of my writings and stuff, but.
Dude, I get them with like teams. Like when we were doing the whole budget process last year,
it was crazy. I got you remember that episode of Friends that was like pivot,
pivot with the the sofa. I got. Do you remember that? Do you remember that episode of Friends?
They were like trying to move a sofa on the staircase. Oh, of course! No,
that's that's like a classic. That's tried and true. That's a pivot. Ross is just yelling at them,
and I think like the couch breaks in half. Well, I, I, and then it's like funny
because you go through these notebooks and you, and it just I go back to them
and it reminds me of all these different eras of Cordon Bleu Coffee because of what's in
those those notebooks and that whole insanity that we were going through like the budget process
last year that kept changing. It's in that pivot notebook. It's like if I ever die,
you're gonna tell my husband. Can you please find me a pivot notebook?
It's like it's gonna be like all this insane. As I was, I was back in those days.
I was hosting spaces for intersect too, and they kept changing the goalposts, the pro,
the the processes, the things, and I was losing my mind, dude. We were doing interviews here in
Creditor Coffee, and we're telling people, educating people, but then the process will change
the very next day, and the same thing in in intersect. I was losing my mind. So yeah,
all these notebooks are fun. I go through them sometimes, and I find things like you know,
like I find gems in there. Like light donation, it's not no light a minute. It's not a minute.
It's a light a minute. I just write things down and I don't even notice. I'm doodling
and writing shit. Top tools, top tools. By the way, shout out to top tools. Oh my god! Yeah, Jenny,
you're gonna have to you're gonna have to repost your heartfelt message as well,
so that Lido sees it. And oh, you're funny! Oh my god, Lido's gonna be like,
he's gonna totally miss the message. It show up next week and be like, what's going on? Yeah,
that's so funny. He always misses out. I wait for Tuesday. I send to you to him on Tuesday
when he's reading it. Yeah, right. Yes, exactly. But everybody, like, come up here
and hang out with us. I should. It is Wednesday. I gotta go, Jenny. I really should pay attention
to the TSC as much as I don't want to. I know it is Wednesday. I hopefully you come back this time
and give us a scoop. I don't know if you're hiding, if you're playing pretend,
or if it's true that this. No, it's just it's like so tactical. It's so detailed.
Like some of the stuff we go into is very deep. Um, like, you know, how endorser blocks
are working with the ranking blocks, and in what conditions you can produce a ranking block
versus conditions that you can produce the endorsement block, and like,
what is the latency introduced between? Like, it is so deep that like I just don't think
people really want want to know all that unless I'm like doing a tech talk. Bye. Yeah,
I need to figure out what the like right medium, or what you know. Maybe we can take questions
or something. But it's it's just a little. The water is a little. Can you give us a TLDR
before you leave on the hard fork? Yeah, I think the hard fork, the working group voted, you know,
for it, and then we are. I had. I have to check the vote count, but you know,
I'm pretty sure we already pushed. I think we already voted yes on it internally,
and then it was also pushed to mainnet. The action, so I think, I think it's it's live right now.
Systems ready. Yeah, so I think it went out yesterday. I could pull the time, but yeah,
it should be live on mainnet, and people can start saying we're ready.
So I think it's it's good news. There was one, there was a few, you know, people, you know,
not on board completely just because of the the Omnios Kupo forking rather than like fixing on
on mainnet directly. But you know, comms with that team seem to be good, and you know,
everything's moving forward. So I don't think that concern is that big. So from what I see,
it's people are kind of overwhelmingly in support of the hard fork. So things look good. Sweet,
yeah, it looks like it's all going. So we should be moving there soon.
We haven't had one in a in a minute, so this is exciting. So moving in Corano, yay! All right,
go go for your meeting, man. I don't want to hold you here hostage. Okay, sounds good. I'll be back.
I'll I'll provide more updates when I pop back in. Sounds good. So what the hell?
I'm gonna leave my phone here, but I'm gonna be obviously not. Okay, that makes sense.
I keep keep us company and spirit. Oh, is Marine here? No,
that's just a. Oh my God, it's so funny how I think of Marine now when I hear that. Oh, I
can't. I know she does that when she walks into place. It's so funny. Uh, I was gonna say, so yeah,
I guess Tap Tools is gone, guys. Um, what else do we have out there to share?
I'm gonna try to find this and pin it up at the top. Oh, Chad, what about like soccer, man?
Like that, the World Cup is on fire. I've been watching every single game. My God, what a night!
Right, it was amazing. And then the day before, with all the draws, just absolute craziness. Dude,
Messi scored like the best goals, the hat trick, and all that. It was amazing. Best World Cup ever,
right? Just gotten started, and it's actually pretty, pretty good. Some are a little boring
at the beginning, but this has been great, so I'm enjoying it. I say this every World Cup,
like after every match, in the middle, after a few pints, it's, it's, it's just. Ever
since I got into soccer, this is how I feel. I know, and then at the end it's like cry, cry.
What's up, Besco? Sup, dudes? What up? Are you watching the World Cup? I am working. No,
I mean in general. Have you been? Oh. Watching it? Uh, to be honest, not that much. Like I,
you know, I just see like the highlights and stuff, and I'm like, oh, great, cool. Um, I don't know.
You would expect me to be like into it because I'm from Panama, but you know. Panama is there.
What's that? Panama. Panama is playing. Yeah. Sorry, Chad. They are. Are they in it? Yeah, bro. Nah.
Um. But I. Yeah. They. They. Um. I think so. I mean, last last time I checked, but maybe. Yeah,
Palma's in there. Isn't it? I think they might qualify. I don't. I don't believe so.
I haven't seen them qualify. And today is the last day of the of the first round of group stages,
and I haven't seen them. Yeah, I thought they beat like Dominican Republic, like four zero
or some shit. They play Ghana. What? No. Today at seven p.m. Shut the hell up, Chad! Damn, bro!
Damn, always trying to downplay my country, man. Just kidding. Yeah, I didn't even know, dude.
My so-so. I knew. I mean, I'm doing this stupid like sticker album, and I know that I, I know,
I know I've seen the flag around. I've seen that flag around, sure. Yeah.
Because I always think that Panama's flag looks more like a European flag. That's crazy.
It's like you know, like it looks a little different than. I don't know why I've always looked at
at the Panama flag. I kind of. Very distinctive. Your, um, yo, Jenny. So, damn,
they got the best out of you too. They're fucking this. Not really. I mean,
Jenny pulled the Jenny pulled the tap to sunset and everything. That was crazy. I was like, dude,
you got me really gonna make me read all this shit, Jenny. And I did, cause I really wanted to see
where you were at and your reasoning and stuff. But yeah, dude. Um, I said the same thing
about you know big pay and stuff. You know, we're all free. We're all here by choice.
And the day you start not enjoying something or it doesn't align with, you know, whatever it is,
then it's to be respected for people to move on and you know do other things. So I hope not to.
I hope to not see, you know, the similar comments that I saw on like page posts and shit.
Like it was crazy, bro. People are like, I'm disappointed and whatever. This is like,
why are you disappointed? People making decisions that are best fit for them.
Should be like encouraging that you know people have the willpower and stuff to just like, dude,
okay, it's not serving me well, and you know I'm gonna go do some stuff that does feel good to do.
So, yeah, man. Um, obviously sucky to to read, but I'm pumped for you. Sounds
like you have plenty of projects and stuff that you want to kind of catch up. Well,
I've been doing stuff. Yeah, I mean, I've been studying different things on the sides and studying.
Yeah, like yeah. All kinds of stuff. Yeah, I took like an AI class and like. Oh, that's sick. Yeah,
just uh, kind of um, and just looking into doing other things and then working on some projects
like personal projects and then house projects and then my own. You know,
I served my communities for many years too, right? And every so once in a while,
you have to say like, okay, you know, uh, I gotta walk away because, like I said,
you become a fixture somewhere, and then you stop growing, right? So, uh.
Sometimes it's hard because there's a lot of like, for example, here I do,
I've done a lot of like volunteering on the historical museum in my in my city.
That's the kind of shit that nobody does, dude. And it's like only old old ladies that have nothing
else to do, or rich ladies that can afford to just volunteer the time all the time. And and like me,
that I just kind of I just move around that way. I just kind of put some things in front
of others all the time. Volunteering has always been something that I've done.
But it it it also like fucks you up, man. Because at the end, you just become this like, oh,
you know, just a volunteer in life kind of thing, and then you don't fully grow and your own plans
and projects. Because you're just like dedicated to like helping something stay kind of thing.
So I have to force myself out of it. It's like this. Got to force it, you know.
It's more than I. I want to leave. It's more like I need to leave, you know. Like ah.
A hundred percent. No, it totally makes sense. And again, it's like it goes back to you know
if you're enjoying something, you're you know you continue doing it, and you see
that you're growing in it, and all these other things, and then it's easy to continue to do, but.
When it becomes the opposite, you have to be a mature adult, and you know make the decisions
you know you need to make for yourself, and that is to be admired, in my opinion.
So a lot of people don't have that willpower, and the social pressures like keep them, you know,
being something that they're not, or maybe submitting to things that they usually wouldn't,
or you know all that shit. So, yeah, it's fire. Sounds awesome, and I'm sure you're gonna have a lot
of fun doing all of all of the things that you kind of have been. Saying you put on the back burner
for contributing here, so yeah, and it sucks. I like pays getting that kind of shit. I mean,
I honestly, I'm like one of those people that I see people for, you know, you know me, Asco.
I'm like, I tried to like see the, you know, well, the internet just will always internet.
The internet, the internet doesn't give a fuck. You know what I mean? But it pretends to,
type of thing. And the internet always wins. You know, people are gonna say all sorts of things,
and in reality, you know, you need to just kind of drip right off the poncho. And keep it moving.
Like we don't know most of the people that make weird comments, anyways. Like anonymous accounts,
all these things that have like such massive impact in the in the environment, right?
And you don't even know who the fuck behind it, like anything. So, yeah. Yeah, dude,
and they can get loud. It's it's it's it's hard out there. I'm personally, I mean,
it's not you know, it's not like really like the whole oh Cardano is like. I'm I'm done,
and I'm like so tired. It's it's more like you know I just done my thing,
and it feels like it's a good time. It's just a good time to leave, you know.
So the team is in a good place. The things are not too crazy. It's not too busy.
It's just like it's a good time, you know. So I want to I want to leave when it's like a good time
to leave, and that yeah, that's it. But um yeah, when it feels fully leaving, you know,
I'll be around and um I'll come and hang out and keep doing you know joining the conversations and.
And whatnot, but I just don't want it to be my responsibility anymore. You see,
so I can think on other responsibilities. So, and I don't feel like I'm neglecting one, right?
So that's all it is. Yep. Yeah, but yeah, it's still bittersweet. I've been doing this for so long,
but um, yeah. Oh, so what? What you got? What? What you have for us? What's the scoop on things?
Have you? Me. Yeah. Did you what today? Did you learn anything new yesterday? Did you hold spaces?
Did anything? I did, of course. I was just fucking running for. It's because when I'm at work,
I'm just like doing things with my hands, and that doesn't require me to be talking to anybody,
or you know, like nothing that requires attention that I'm not that I already don't have like
a massive amount of experience doing. So it's kind of like I'm autopilot all the time doing things
around here. So I just hold spaces because I have the time, but um. I think the only thing
that happened yesterday that we already knew was sort of coming was the Tap Tools official pausing
of the platform, and that just kind of like, you know, what I saw over all over the timeline was
like, okay, so they were just like, what happened to all that money, you know, that they
that they got just in the last six months and stuff, and in reality, like, yeah,
that is a valid point, you know, because, um, you know, CB they got like
four hundred forty thousand dollars, four hundred and forty fucking thousand dollars
over a twelve month period, um. And in my opinion, that's a lot of money.
Was there something in particular they did? Is there something they're leaving behind?
What What was the money for? I I saw a writing check. Well, the CBDAO ultimately funded projects
that just needed financial support, with the promise of like some sort of like KPI,
reaching some sort of KPIs, right? Whether the transactions or active users
or something along those lines, and they got like they got two hundred something K
the first six months of CBDAO, and they were like double recipients and stuff. But ultimately,
that's not the part that I really even cared about, because I always like I have
this weird thought process. I obviously I'm a different type of thinker or something. I don't know.
Like the part that kind of became important for me to put into perspective
or to share that I found significant is that one that is one that was one
of the single most foot trafficked platforms in the ecosystem, right? So we can like make
little basic assumptions that if one of the most trafficked Platforms in the ecosystem couldn't,
or maybe lack the experience to, or whatever it might be, to monetize that traffic
and become self-sustaining. It kind of raises eyebrows for others, right? And in my opinion,
more importantly. We never know the true conditions of all of these projects, services, ventures,
you know, startups or whatever. That when people are requesting money,
you might be just giving money to something that inevitably is gonna go out of business,
and in in that spending becomes what, you know, like either exit liquidity, intentional.
Or just you know a casualty of the space, but if they would have disclosed
their actual financial situation, maybe that asset that could have been assessed better,
and that money shouldn't have been wasted on something that was already inherently doomed
or something, you know. And there's a lot of those cases in the space.
There's a lot of sunk cost fallacy, meaning you know humans have this tendency to want to hold on
to things when they've made what they perceive as substantial amounts of investments,
and they're like, oh my God, is you know we already we already went in this much,
might as well continue with you know even though it's illogical. So, yeah,
I think that any of the new funding mechanisms that get put in place now
or in the future should take this as a massive experience of like, hey,
if and and and the community will probably have a pushback on this because because some entities
refuse to do it and others are very transparent about it and it's like their financial standing,
you know. For example, CF has like this whole you know yearly report of their financial operations.
You know, sometimes a little bit vague in some corners, but the majority of Of what
I'm trying to say here is that they put out a report every year, and you can kind of have an idea
where they're at. But in the in the inverse of that, you know, I O G is a you know stands on behind
a. Private company structure. They're not going to open the books for nobody, even
though asking for public money for a private company. And I'm just using those two as examples,
right? Like how one of them shows, the other one doesn't, and that's going to be kind of
like the two poles for the little projects and ventures in the space as well. That they're like,
hey, we need some money, it'd be awesome. This is what we're trying to do, blah blah.
But in reality, they're not going to open their books, and you will never be able to see
that that money is just going to go to waste because you know doing a little analysis
on their business shows that. They're beyond the point of return. So yeah,
that that was kind of like in a long way, long winded way, is is that um there's a lot more of that
that people are even noticing, and it's ultimately funding what I call
sunk cost fallacy ventures that are beyond the point of of whatever. But people do it out
of sympathy and you know ethos or whatever the fuck. Yeah, I mean from my experience here,
my experience in crypto and coffee, I can tell you that we have a serious problem
in blockchain crypto. We have spent years rewarding access, speed, hype, ideological loyalty.
Absolutely no institutional discipline. You know. Yep. Crypto companies they raise money
without going through normal processes. They forge legacy companies to mature. You know,
audited statements, investor reportings. You know, oversight, disclosure obligations, accounting.
Nothing. None of that. None of that. No repercussions because none of that exists.
So it's just like. How you can appeal to wisdom of the crowd, and we have a you know anons
too running a lot of the shit. Most of them are anons. Like that is the other fucking crazy part.
It's like let's give millions, maybe even tens of millions, to people that are you know anonymous.
You and then they can easily disappear, and you wouldn't know. You know, you'd have to. Yeah,
our risk tolerance is ridiculous, and it's unhealthy. Like we got too used to that. You know,
the the risk. Like it's just. I think also Jenny get it, but it's been too long. Get mature.
I think that there is just this massive disassociation with the value of a dollar. Uh,
how do I explain this? Like, it you know, pe people are are so used to now just being oh that's
only ten million dollars that's only five million like bro you. Your little ass makes
twenty dollars an hour. Fuck you're at. You make like thirty six thousand dollars a year,
whatever it is, and you're just in the internet talking like five million, ten million,
twenty million, sixty million. You know, it's like nothing. Money's not real, Esco.
There's like fifteen hundred millionaires made every day. We're in the age of trillionaires.
Like holy shit! But then get your ass up at three thirty in the morning.
Make sure your family's fed, your electric's paid, your internet's paid.
You know all of the real things, and then all of a sudden a million dollars is like, yo,
that's that's like you know a few years of not having to really do shit. You know,
if you just live off of it, it's just we're still early mentality, which is true to some things,
but not to the sense of like we need to have real companies behaving in a mature way,
and we have to mature too because most of the most of the people that put their money here
to support. We still call them projects. That's another thing. We talk about projects, right?
So it's like it's almost like we're brainwashed ourselves into looking at this. It's like, oh,
it's just a project. It's different than the real world, and that's why you're having yeah.
We act like like fans and not like shareholders. We're fans. I'm a fan, you know. Yay, we root
and whatever. And it's like it's crazy. I I really do think that we have to. It's fucking.
It's ridiculous. To be honest, it's fucking crazy, and that's why we make the comments.
How do we fix that? It's it's us. We have to we have to work on this stuff. You know,
it's like I don't think necessarily there's a fix. I think, well, it's in the culture, right? We,
it's like. We need a more. I don't know. I know that we want this decentralization.
We want to break from like legacy systems, but I think that there's like this disconnect of what
do we want from there and what do we want to keep from it. It's not like just toss it all
and do the opposite, you know? Yeah, yeah. I think I'm also the majority of of people in the
in this crypto space have no experience in you know new emerging industries
and in like the phases of new emerging industries, right? Like let's use the crypto example,
which we're in. Like, or let's let's even go back a couple of New emerging industries
to the dot com boom. You know when everything is like this brand new thing,
you don't even have the fuck to do with the money because everybody wants to like you know catch
that bubble and blah blah blah, and then it goes through. It's like hype cycle where people are just
like the appetite for risk is just through the fucking stratosphere. Then all of those things
start kind of like. Consolidating companies start going out of business because they didn't find
product market fit with their little niche ideas, and then other companies absorb others,
and it goes through this like it it it literally looks like a token launch.
If you go look at like a meme coin token launch or something, it just goes.
There is a name for this actually. I've posted it before. It's like I'll I'll look it up here
for you in a minute. There's a literal pattern like in in in business for For this like process
or whatever, it just speculation makes it go up all crazy, and then there's like a phase of like
when reality sinks in and all this other stuff. I've posted this before.
Let me see if I can find it. But um, yeah, a lot of people don't have experience with that, so um,
you know, all of this is just this very euphoric, and and this is not just new to crypto,
by the way. This is not it's not just only to crypto. There's always this like euphoric phase
for new emerging industries, and then you know consolidates and so on and so on.
I've seen it on the cameras industries and the Internet booms, and now we're seeing it on crypto.
And now we're, you know, we're in the AI representation of that. What do you think
is going to happen with AI? It's also going to bubble up and eventually have the same trajectory,
at least in my opinion. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I think I wonder if like we don't have.
It's like we we really push against having any kind of standardization and things.
It's like when it comes down to to tech, people even push against it because people are like, oh,
we don't want to settle too quick into a standard. But then when it comes to other structures,
it's like nobody wants to standards. Like so, like a framework for accountability, for example.
It's like if we could at least have something like that that we can all say,
like we demand this from absolutely all, like you know, all the businesses that are building here.
You know, we don't have that. It's like. I mean, here in Cortado or coffee,
we used to try to like ask certain questions to kind of keep some sort of like,
but it's just our standard. It was not not like a standard in general.
Like we kind of like created our own standard of of way of sniffing things, right?
But I feel like if we were to work on something like that, and I do understand
that Charles has been talking about this, you know, structures of accountability. But I mean,
we've been talking about this for so long, and we still haven't built it. And I mean.
He's like taken more than half of the NCL. Like he's actually like one of the people.
His company is like one of the companies that will you want to hold to those standards, right?
And it's not easy. Like he he like every time we've tried to like ask for certain things,
he he doesn't want to. So he wants to do things the way he wants to do things.
He doesn't want to report things that people want him to report. He doesn't want to. So it's like
either accept it or or you don't, and then. I don't know. Like we're stuck in this thing
where everybody's got different standards. Like some people didn't like how the the Dow had
their own self-reporting KPIs, right? It's everybody's got all these different.
It's just like different frameworks, and I don't think it works. You know,
we really have to come come to terms with that. Would it be fair to say that most people
like to have their cake and eat it too? Like, well, I mean, what fucking good cake is
if you can't eat it? You know. Um, I pinned up top what I was mentioning.
This this is a literal thing that you can that is like uh. Business thing,
it's called the startup curve. Like most startups go through this exact same pattern,
and it's like depicted on like the stages and all that type of shit. If you look at that,
it's like pretty much the resemblance of every single token graph, every ecosystems graph,
like all of that, because it goes through this initial, um, like massively speculative, um, uh,
you know, high risk tolerance, shakeout period, shakeout period. Yeah, and then it
and then it like cools off, and then if That gets to you know deploying the product service
whatever it is, then that startup could potentially come at the other end. But yeah,
most of them die before that because their product might be like meta based
or like supporting you know what the current thing is, and then it goes out of interest and so on
and so on. But yeah, people that don't that haven't experienced you know new emerging industries
or or have a couple startups under their belt or something, you know. Well,
but a lot of those people they're building that's this is what it is right.
A lot of the people that that have been building. The industry are people
that they're just innovating with no experience of anything. Reality, it's not just emerging like
technologies or anything like that. It's just even like running businesses, you know,
that just kept on pushing over like ethos. They were smart on some things,
and they were able to like accomplish some things and use the tech and push it forward
and innovating as they go and getting you know successful, and then finding themselves
like not really knowing how to sustain that or take it to the next level, right? Yeah,
because a lot of them are young. The word "young," you know, a lot of those people. I mean,
Charles is younger than me. How old is he? Like thirty-seven or something like that. Thirty-eight.
I think he might be even younger than me. Yeah. So, I mean, that's fucking crazy.
They're young people, right? You're smart. You're in the right place at the right time. You have,
you know, you have the right motivations, and and you try your best. But you know,
there's still a lot of things that you're gonna have to learn the hard way as you go along, right?
So. Because that's how it works. That's how it works. Hundred percent. Especially
when you're getting through the school of life, right? Yeah, and the learning curve
of like pioneering shit is massively expensive, because there is no, it hasn't been done before.
There's usually not examples that you can follow and not have to like go through, you know,
the learning curve on things. Like, yeah, all this shit. So that's why I think
that you know I do think the culture it has to be something that we have to develop it. Otherwise,
it's not going to happen. Just like we build the culture of being like Yolo, yeah, we're early.
Everything is a project. It's cool. You don't have to be docs. You can use a PFP.
We ourselves have to kind of shift that in in in a in a in a way that people can jump along.
Because I think the problem is like we take ourselves there, but then we find ourselves dealing with
the consequences of our actions, and then we just We get mad and we try to,
and then we become combative about it. And some people don't see it that way. And then we just,
then we have a struggle in the middle of the ocean, and we can't decide
how to steer the boat in the right direction. So I feel like that's where culture comes to play.
And I'm really big into this. This is my thing. I'm a people person. I know you're a people person
too. I'm like, it's about the culture. How do you build a culture that allows
for that to like actually happen? And we can all just say, yeah, we're we're heading in
that direction instead. Slowly, you don't even realize it. You're already like solving the problems
little by little, you know. But we have to. It comes from like a simple things
as like we need to stop calling them projects, you know. If we ourselves stop calling the projects,
but companies, then our minds already shifts into like expecting different things from a project
that you expect from a company or a business, you know. So those those are the little things that
we can do to probably help the situation. I see your hand up, Chef. Yeah, yeah.
I just wanted to touch on the on that that bell curve of learning on the startups. It's.
I'd like to introduce education and mentoring into the conversation because we have the culture,
we have the community. Look at the look at the amount of tweets or X's
or whatever we're calling them for that are that. You know what, Cheb?
It's great that you talk about this because mentoring is one of the things that I'm working on
with projects. It's something that I try to get Jack to to implement with an intersect for years,
and I just cannot get through them on on this. And he agreed to to the importance of it. He saw it,
but there's just absolutely no priority on it. It's just like, no, they just don't don't understand
how important, how helpful that could be. I absolutely want to work on a mentorship situation
for Cardano. I think that could absolutely. Help more than people can imagine. Like so,
you described a situation where where project developers get themselves out into the middle
of a forest with nobody around, and they get pissed off. And and you know,
there's two sides of that coin. They didn't seek education. Yes, we're blazing new territory,
but businesses businesses in a new territory. You know, technology isn't a new territory. All of the
and as a culture and as a community, we don't reach back either. As we're rowing forward as hard
as we can. There's nobody reaching back. There's I. There's probably less than a dozen
SPOs that focus on education, which is the proper place to do it. And the way we approach education
is not one way. There's just, and I think that it was just like it's great that you mentioned this.
And I'm actually going to reach out to you because I'm working on a mentorship project that
I'm trying to build, and I would love to bring you along because I think mentorship is another side
of education that is not like here. I'm going to stand in front of you. I'm going to do a workshop,
and I'm going to give you lecture. That's I. I think that we've done that a lot.
And that has its own thing. It's got its, you know, it does what it does,
but it doesn't give you what mentorship does in terms of education, you know. Um. So yeah,
I'm so glad that you mentioned that because that's definitely up my alley.
I strongly believe in that. Yeah, no doubt. It's and it and it's huge.
You can you can see the the the communities and cultures that don't invest in education
and mentorship because it's a really bright flame, but it doesn't last long.
The ones that that invest in education and passing that knowledge on. We,
there's so many people here that ask the right questions and and have the the right side
seventy five sides of the education that it takes to to efficiently be here in Cardano.
Let's pass that on. We're the we're the. This is not the incipient phase of Cardano.
We're this is we're here a long time and we should have had a network set up.
But education doesn't get the sexy money. It doesn't. And that's it. Doesn't that's ubiquitous
across the planet. How many? How many? Elementary schools are are just,
but it's also understanding the different types of education, right? Because like something
like mentorship is something that you learn through, like, you know, that peer to peer,
that passing down, that getting your hands dirty, getting your hands dirty, and yeah,
learning from somebody that's there and like getting you know inspiration.
There's like all all kinds of different things that you don't then you don't get
when you're just like again. Doing a workshop, it's like we've like stuck with a workshop,
like workshop and a call and a workshop and a call. This is all we freaking do, and I can tell you,
like I've hosted several workshops, I've done these things, and we've we've reached the end of that.
Like there's at this point, like. Yeah, like people are just like done with them.
They don't even want to participate anymore. It's like well, we even have trouble getting
people to participate in hackathons, dude. You know, I know it's lean. It's very lean,
and when the depth comes, they'll be they'll be Cardano companies that hire directly out
of education and mentorship programs that that focus on bringing the ones that want to learn
the education about it up through. There'll be there'll be a set of rails right there naturally.
Yeah, and then when it comes down to like maturity with these businesses,
because I'm gonna stop calling them projects. No more projects for coming out of my mouth.
That's my way to like contribute to the to the issue as companies or businesses. You know,
these businesses can definitely benefit in terms of maturing from getting mentored by people
that might not be in crypto, but their business business owners. Like your or vice versa.
I think that's written in darker ink on the other side of the coin because it's
a lot less legally binding for you to call your your digital project a project rather
than a business. For those that who aren't business owners, everything is everything is done around
accountability and like that's what I'm saying. It's we have to stop it. You know,
we have to definitely put an end to that. It's an end of an era, guys. Like we manage funds now,
treasuries. Uh, and off like Esco was just mentioning like four hundred and some thousand dollars
went to a project that I mean I I love top tools so I'm definitely absolutely not top tools
top tools. I'm not trying to throw shit, and like I don't know the the the the story,
but it does make you wonder like what happened if it was like you know if they received close to
a million dollars in in the past twelve months if that's true, what happened I don't know I
I I don't even know if that really happened honestly I mean I don't I don't know how it went down
I haven't checked I'm just kind of using this as an example of something that I was brought up
today. I you know I know there's probably there's probably sixty other prime examples of that in
the last couple years and you know the the umbrella that covers it is education
and accountability is what's going to get Cardano into its next iteration. Yeah,
we can't keep all these projects like only existing because we fund them every time you know
unless it's critical, it's something that there's no real path for self-sustainability,
which there are when it talks when we talk about like innovation, you know we have
open source development that moves us into the next step into the next step.
We have to look into this, but not just because it's open source. Also,
means that it has to be like you know kept forever. If it's still you know doing its thing,
if it's still you know has a purpose and is pushing us forward, and it's something
that is not easily you know kept in a self-sustainable way, I definitely think that's that's
what makes the treasury amazing. And I also think the treasury should fund initiatives that are.
One-time thing that can you know, but I everybody has different opinions of
whether that one thing that we fund should be owned by the treasury or not.
I I really don't see it that way myself, but I definitely agree with some of the perspectives in
between. Right, for example, cash. I love cash's proposal. I can't believe cash's proposal
didn't pass. Like to me, I'm like, oh my god, I can't believe that it passed. But of course,
some people are like, it's a lot of money. Do you really need all that money?
There's all these different questions in there that I'm like, okay, that's maybe valid here,
maybe valid there. We gave him some perspective here and like, hey, instead of like Telling that is,
you know, saying that that the Cardano is going to own a part of the company.
I think that's that's maybe not as viable, but maybe if you can tag the, you know.
Different addresses in the cells of the tickets. You can put the treasury
and and put a small percentage of those cells, like to kind of fund back the treasury.
That'll be awesome. If we did things like that, then that's a way to like get back to the treasury
without having to like say we own these businesses because who's going to run those businesses?
That's crazy. I think that's those liabilities, guys. We don't want to own all these liabilities
out there, and then have to manage them. Right. So, oh, there's a lot of things that we.
But you know, I think the cash has definitely proven that he's been here trying to do.
The best for this community, and tried really hard to be professional.
And we talked about this meritocracy forever, and we still don't have a meritocracy system.
How do we keep track of of this merits, quote unquote? Right? We don't have that. We well,
there happened another. Happened with Tempo as well. Remember that Tempo like built up front. Um,
I was trolling on the timeline not that long ago, and I was like, "Hey,
name ten companies that have brought their own money to build anything here.
" And you start scratching your head, right? Because the very first step of everything
that happens here is to sell something to raise money for whatever. So
when when you see companies like like I think one of the only companies that in the past
while that I can remember was Tempo, you know, like the the voting governance shits,
and they like did all this work upfront, blah blah blah, and then when they went to ask for a bit
of the you know of money to support them on, I think it was a treasury proposal,
then they got like denied, and then they literally just like took off. So,
so just kind of trying to tag it along with what you're saying in terms of like meritocracy,
or you know, people's ability or proven track record to do things, or you know,
some some sort of retroactive compensation for for people taking you know their own money
and their own risk to do things in here, but it's not rewarded. So then, so then,
what are you attracting? Is that type of people, right? The people that are just,
I'm not going to do anything unless I am originally funded, especially.
If that something comes with no true consequence when I get funded and it doesn't work out, so yeah,
it's there's a lot of, in my opinion, fundamental issues that do not make the environment
one to be even self-sustaining in any kind of measure. Yeah, I know. I mean, I remember when Nami,
when Alessandro built Nami, he built Nami so he could actually have a marketplace because all
he wanted was a marketplace. A decentralized marketplace for spacebots. That's what he wanted to do.
And Eroiy was supposed to be. I mean, when Seba was working on Eroiy, he was supposed to be building
a DApp connecting Wallet. But then Eroiy decided they didn't want to use that because they thought
that NFTs were going to die. That they wanted to focus on DeFi, and they wouldn't allow
for him to work on that project anymore. So by the time Alessandro was done building his mark,
his first version of the marketplace, before we even had smart contracts,
he worked around it to to do this like decentralized way of Of of trading with no smart contracts
because he was just really into like solving problems, you know, with whatever tech we had at
the time. That's how he built the first NFTs. Like he just came up with
like that vending machine system that mimicked the smart contracts, and that's why people thought,
no way, Cardano has NFTs. We don't even have smart contracts. So he created that vending machine
that you send it some money and then you got a you know a specific amount of ADA
and then you would get the NFT and all that stuff. That was like a way to go work around it.
And he's like really clever, and he he was having fun doing all this stuff.
And he when he released released spacebots, he's like, I just we really want to enable a way
to trade them in a decentralized way because everybody was trading them on Discord,
and we we had to do like the the Discord day. So we had an escrow. You remember
that esco esco escrow? We had yeah for sure escrow service. Even Clay Nation used to do everybody.
Yeah, it was the only way to do it. So we had to do escrow. He was like, that's fun and all,
but this just is not what we're supposed to be doing here.
So he really wanted to enable decentralized. You know, trading. By the time he was done building
that first marketplace, there was no DApp connecting wallet. He was like, "Damn, man! Like,
I can't get this to work unless I have it." So he had to build it. That was the only reason
why Namie existed. It was because without a wallet for him to be able, like,
the whole work that he did would have had, you know, to wait. So. He built that thing,
and then everybody was using it, and it became like you have to maintain it,
and you have to work on it, and you have to do all these things. And people were like, "No,
we want this, and we want hardware support, and we want this support, and we want that,
and we want mobile." And I was just like, "Dude, it became like a whole business that he had
no intention of running, and it's not sustainable. You can't really make money out of that stuff.
" And he even put like a delegation button to to Barry, which is his pool.
As a way to like help him support the development, and people were pissed, dude.
People were genuinely pissed off. Like, I can't believe you're doing this.
The only delegation button is for Aberrion. It's like, but you can. Here, I show you.
You can develop your own button to your account, and then people can do it. And you can fork Nami.
You can create your own little Nami, or and then Smog from Pupium. He created this this Place
where you can actually go in there and delegate to any any pool, but that was his way
to try to like help it be self sustainable. And people hated it, dude.
I remember that it was so much hate that he received from that, even though he was gifting
all this technology to the community. And so I I I was like I was like, dude,
we have to do something. This is nobody's gonna want to build open source tools if there's no way
to make money out of them. So I said, let me put a proposal and catalyst for you.
It was just for him, just for a small amount. It was like forty k a. Just for him,
just to see if we can get this funded to help other developers feel like there's hope and building
cool tools for their community in a self-sustainable way. Because if you're building something
that's helping the ecosystem and it's open source and it's really opening new doors
and new possibilities and unlocking the the capabilities of Cardano, then this is the kind of stuff
you wanna you want to support, right? So we didn't, but then. And of course, people voted for it.
It was kind of retroactive, to be honest. Like it was like one of the few things that
people have actually voted on. That's like things that were already built,
because there wasn't really much of a promise after that. We actually did say
that we were going to do the hardware support, which he did, and then the mobile. But you know,
we had to kill the mobile idea because Nami grew so much that it became completely unsustainable.
And there were so much scams, like so many scams, and there's no team running this
and taking care of it that it became dangerous. If we would have, if he
if he would have enabled Mobile, that would have been the end of it. Like the amount of people
that would have lost their money would have been horrendous, because there's just less control.
So that's why he just he was desperate to like not be responsible for over Nami anymore.
Like that people are like, oh, he's whatever. He just like he did not like the amount of stress
of running Nami for nothing, guys. So I'm telling you, I don't know exactly what it takes
for Eternal to exist. I know that some people say it's a lot of money what they're asking for.
I mean, I really don't know how they operate. I really don't. Maybe they can do it in a leaner way
and and exist and still be more sustainable in the community if we want to have those things.
But I know it's not easy to make money and have those things. And Sometimes we do have to say
we need this. Not everything can be self-sustainable, and we're okay funding it until we find
a sustainable way to do this. Or maybe this is something that we will consider to be something that
that we carry forward forever because we just don't have a self-sustainable way of doing it.
We don't know. But I think it is important to to be open to to both things,
and also maybe find ways to do it in a leaner way if possible. You know,
I know I've been talking for a long time, but. I wanted to give a little bit of a history
behind that. I know that wallets are not ways; it's not easy to make money with wallets. Oh, hell!
Unless you're tacking on like a fee on the per transaction, and people would absolutely bitch about
that. So, yeah, no, I get it. Also, actually, now that you bring it too, it's crazy. Well, yeah,
if anybody gets exploited, some you're on the hook for it. Yeah. But you know,
Eternal is closed source, and that's yet another thing, right? So, is that what we want? You know,
that that that's what happened because you probably know. What happened to that SpaceBuds treasury?
Because I remember there was a bag in there, and it was supposed to be for like SpaceBuds proposals,
builders, some shit. I don't know. No, it wasn't supposed to be for that. Actually,
I can give you a TLDR. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is no. I'm asking because I don't know. Yeah,
there were no royalties attached to SpaceBuds. Okay, but JPEG Store, they were charging.
Royalties for a long time. Yeah, and eventually I was like, Blake, what the fuck are you doing?
So I told I told Sandra, I was like, dude, I don't understand why they're charging royalties
when there's no royalties on Spacebots. So he confronted Blake. Was like, no, no, no,
we're saving the money to send it to you, but we didn't know where. So he was like, well.
He was very cautious about like taking this kind of money because he's you know he's in Germany
and he's like I don't want any liabilities. He's always very afraid of like getting money
from different from funding that he can like the liabilities of tax things and money.
He didn't want anything to do with that, so he was like, well, let's just let's just create this
and open a a multi sig. And I'm the same way. I'm very cautious. I like I don't like messing up
with money like that and. I, I, I was, you know, that multi sick myself and sick,
which is just a co-founder, and we also have Jeff in there as another signer, and um,
he said maybe we could use it for something like that, but he said, but we have to look into
Catalyst first and see what Catalyst is doing because moving money and funding things like that,
it's, it's like I said, tax liability is dangerous. We can't just be doing this like that.
We need to look closely at how Catalyst is doing and learning from Catalyst. That's what he said,
but it became a mess, dude. Everybody there was just like throwing proposals and wanting to do this
and like this is decentralized and people are taking in things the way they wanted to take things,
and it's definitely not how it was. So at the end, nothing was done without money,
except for pay like one moderator for a while until things got a little crazy and had to let him go,
and nothing was done. And then after after he he sold Spacebots recently. We basically like,
but it wasn't much, dude. There was absolutely not much in that in that wallet,
because he it didn't continue to receive money in that thing like that. It was for a while.
It wasn't just funding forever. Like I said, there's no really royalties on it either. So, um,
but what happened? Well, when we dissolved it, then they kept part of it. I got a portion,
and it was like I think it was like a a k or something like that. And then Jeff got a portion,
so we just closed it down. That was it. Nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just I remember
that that like existed, and I didn't know exactly what the hell. But yeah, you guys worked. Yeah,
that's how it went down. But we wanted to, and we created some some some kind of
like a proposal thing portal. But dude, it was just crazy. People wanted to like, no,
we need to buy. We need to buy and get into like the other side, Metaverse.
Because if we don't do that, we need to put all our money in the other side. Oh yeah.
Because that's where the you know. And I was like, guys, no, we we can't.
So it was like all these proposals that were coming in were insane, Esco.
So we had to like to we had to pause this shit and like we try to tell people we gotta look into
Catalyst and see how they're developing so we can learn from them so we can do a better job here.
But it's really hard to get community like to just want to do things in a paced way, you know. So.
Yeah, at the end of the day, it was like a lot of work and and nothing. Yeah,
I'm sure there was a lot of fun too. Like, you know, when it was kind of first, actually. Exactly.
That became a little exhausting. When when the when the NFT days and all of that,
like I remember wanting a space bud for so long, and they were like seven thousand bucks,
and I was like, I just can't hold myself to buying a five. I don't even know.
It was up there in terms of like. We were having fun, dude, collecting and all this stuff, just
like everybody's having fun right now with the Pokemons, right? It's fun collecting.
It's really fun. I I those were the best days. Of my adult years, probably.
But it did get crazy because then when the market went down and everybody's
like they were purchasing this NFTs for ridiculous amounts of money, then there were like my bags,
my bags, my bags, pump my bags, pump my bags, and it became this pump my bags thing and this hate,
constant hate. And that's really like it's it's really draining, dude. Yeah, oof, absolutely, yeah.
It doesn't matter how hard you try. And and and Alessandro kept building. He kept doing things.
He he developed CIP 68, and he developed Nebula. That contract Nebula was really fun.
It was about like that didn't even take off because people didn't even understand it.
Which was about like the central, like the centralized marketplaces, basically like having
your own instances of different marketplaces, and then everybody being able to like make a cut
if they take. Front end use the contract. Such an awesome process! Like he he developed a bunch
of stuff, Lucid, the library, Lucid, that everybody, people didn't care. I forgot about that. Yeah,
and then Lucid became Lucid Evolution, and that's from him. Exactly. So
and people build it on that stuff, but they were like, "You're not bringing any value." It's like,
dude, what do you mean? This is all coming from spacebots. This is all lives under spacebots,
and and people just didn't. That's not pumping my bags. And it's like, dude, it was really hard,
dude. It was really hard. Oh, dude. And then when meme coins came, it was even.
It got even worse because it was like before. Um, it it was respectfully, you know,
you kind of had to implement the the um theory of greater fools. Somebody had to believe. That way,
you were selling was worth more, and buy it from you, right? So there was this more like, even
though some people would like wash trade and do all sorts of weird stuff,
like you know mint a shit ton and then try to control the floor and all those sort of things.
NFTs weren't necessarily like liquid to just go and dump until you know that there was what
do you call buy orders or whatever were implemented in JPG. Oh yeah, things got crazy one.
And then it just became insanely about like. Money, right? Because then you could just mint
if there was offers higher, boom, you'd dump, make profit, and then from that transitioned
that whole thing transitioned into full on like you know meme coins, which is you know even
if there is. Then you have precedents even dumping on you now. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy shit.
Block dog, I'm sorry you had your hand out for so long. We've been here like going,
going back in time. What's that, my friend? You still have your hand out, block dog? Are you there?
When he comes up, you should mute him just for old times. He seems. Hey guys,
he seems to be in listeners. Oh no, he's there. What's happening? I was just talking to my wife.
She just got home, so sorry. Nice wife. Hi Sonia. Jenny says hi. She says hi. So.
I loved the discussion having to do with Nami and and our history and and why it was one in one way
really cool what we had going on and the excitement that came from that and then
how people handle things and if you live in Germany the tax rate there is exceedingly high
I mean I would be extraordinarily worried or concerned about where that is
and then the idea that that money was sitting over the JPEG store and they were collecting that was
a scandal I remember. That to me is like so. If you didn't contact Blake, then
that they were planning on doing. If you did contact him, then he would just say, "Hey,
we were planning on sending it to you. We just didn't know where." The same way
he was commingling funds. Some of the most shenanigans things I've ever heard in my life.
So they got caught, and they just said, "Oh, so plausible deniability." You know, blah, right?
Whatever. So that that's fine, or whatever. But ultimately, I think. And I find
that because people are hating on him and saying like he lied, I was under lies. He said it's no.
You know, yes, there are royalties. Like no, there are no royalties. And that's how I found out
because people were calling Alessandra a liar, and I'm like, "What are you talking about?
" And then I realized, "Oh shit, Tapeig is charging people for that." That was crazy. Yeah,
and if you met the guy, like I had the the pleasure being able to meet him.
You're sitting there with him at at in Berlin, right? And we didn't get to talk very off very much,
but. You know, the energy from him is not one that you would you would say, oh, well,
this guy's a scammer. It's quite the opposite, freaking complete polar opposite of that. You know,
and so you know, he's just one of those guys that's wanted to help and give,
and that's exactly what he did. He did that through example the entire time. You know,
which is one of the reasons that you know I appreciated him being in the space
and him giving us these opportunities, which then led me to work with you know Matt
and everything else that came along with that, right? And so, yeah, that sucks.
The rumor mill—it's always the worst here. And then people get go off half cocked on it,
and then apparently the lie is the truth now, and and you know it's a huge problem,
and and then people are chastised or ostracized even for it, you know. And meanwhile,
they might have been on vacation for a week and come back going, what's going on? You know,
having no clue that's even happening, right? So it's just such an insane thing that we have here
in the space. I did want to like comment a little bit on the eternal thing,
and I was talking to Marcel a little bit. About the proposal, they've resubmitted,
and here's the thing. So there are certain things that are in our ecosystem that have been there
for a very long time, and they will continue to develop no matter what. You know,
so let's just get that out of the way. Eternal's not going anywhere, and I know that just
from you know my discussions. But what's more important is, is like Jenny said,
what's really valuable to us, and whether or not it's something that should be supported by
the ecosystem, you know. And and so that's where you have to kind of like, you know,
figure out what's most important to you. You know, and I know for me in this particular space,
there are certain people that have been here for a very long time, and they've been building
the whole time, which is exceedingly hard back in the day, right? And they're still here;
they're not going anywhere, and nor are they going anywhere in the future, right? So,
is Eternal valuable enough to where we should be supporting it? And in my mind, yes. You know,
these are public-private partnerships, things to think about. That you know,
this particular tool has been exceedingly valuable to our ecosystem in so many different ways.
And yeah, wallets are super hard to monetize. We all know this. Right,
and because of the amount of users that we have here, it's even harder to monetize. You know,
so where is it that we have a responsibility as a community to make sure that these things
don't go away, especially with teams that never plan on going away and will even eat the costs
if necessary in order to stay here. You know, and I think that's where you kind of like figure out,
you know, in your mind what's most important to you. You know, so I'm not going to make a dollars
and cents decision here on this. You know, yes, it's important. It is important to make sure
that it's sustainable. If it's going to be one of those things that we're going to be like
having to fund all the time, and there's also other things. Like for example, if you're open,
if you're closed source because you, you know, you're trying to make a business out of it,
but eventually you decide, you know what, this is not going to be self-sustainable.
I'm cool with like maintaining it and working on it and pushing it forward,
as long as the cardinal community wants to fund it, then open source it. So
that when you're not going to do this and this things that are being funded perpetually.
Can actually build further, right? So I think there's there's there's negotiation pathways
towards this kind of things. I appreciate that. I particular I appreciate that particular opinion,
and and that is absolutely important. And there is also there needs to be a path to sustainability,
you know. So you're just not thinking like this will just continually get funding because then
in essence you're becoming a welfare baby, which is something that we don't need here.
And we've had grant fund baby. It's the same thing. That it perpetuates almost
like you're being institutionalized in some way, you know. And so there's this level of like,
I don't even really need to try because I'll get funding every year.
So I'm not really going to innovate. I'm not really going to put anything into it, and I'll try
and extract value wherever I can, and I'll just keep continue to keep going that way, right?
And that's not a culture we want to have here, and we need to really nip that completely if we can.
We're never going to 100% it, but. You know, but at the same time, there is that level
of understanding that yes, they definitely need to monetize it. You know, and how do you do that?
You know, you start to reach out to others in the space that are seeing success
and start to do that particular thing. And that's one of the things I've noticed that there is
a lack of is reaching out to others. There's a particular thing that Curia does where we do
proposal reviews. This unconstitutional decision is based on the fact that they just missed on
a technicality having to do with the audit and what type of audit it would be. You know,
it was open ended. It just said audit, right? And so technically, that made it to
where it violated part of the constitution. You know, and so if they had just sent the thing,
and you know, to Curie even, or one of the others for review, one the constitutional members,
others do this by the way as well. Then they would have a check, and you know, a checks
and balances there as to whether or not that was completely constitutional,
caught anything that might have triggered. Us, you know, to render it unconstitutional. And see,
guys, and if you're not in the constitutional committee and you like the constitution,
you can probably start a business of doing constitutional reviews. Literally,
you could become a consultant. There's no question. You know, we'll do it for free. I mean,
I'll literally do it for free. Which people shouldn't expect the constitutional committee to do it
because this is on you. And I'll, I'll. No, I actually like advise against it
because then you have to vote on it, and then if you miss something. Then it becomes a little biased
because you're the one that was assisting them. So we had we we went through this as
Cornell Atlantic Council, like you know, it's it's a it's a slippery slope
because if you become like the reviewer for them, then it's like oh you know now you vote yes
because you reviewed it, and I was like you're defending that you didn't see anything. So it's it
and it could be tricky, just saying. And so full disclosure, this is done individual
by individual members of the curia. Yeah, I know, I know. We've we've done that too, you know,
like sometimes, but it's it's a slippery slope, just saying. But Damian, what's up?
I see that you're you're you're you're SPO again. What's going on? Yeah, I'm an SPO game,
but that's not why I came up. You're leaving Cardano over coffee. Nah, nah. Yeah, what's up?
What's up with that? Yeah, Blenny, I met you first time in Las Vegas at the Cardano over coffee boot
next to the Cardano Crooks Club boot. I remember that. An NFT LV. So much fun, man!
Those were the days. We gotta bring those days back. Are you still gonna be in the space, or? Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I'm just like you know, just um, just moving, moving forward.
It's a good time to step aside and let uh, Cerrano over coffee continue to thrive um
on its own merits. So, yeah, but I'm I'm not going away. I'll be around.
I'll be I'll be bantering with you guys as listeners and guests and whatever.
Are are you gonna do the midnight over coffee or also not? No, we paused that for now. Um, yeah,
it had to do with this too. Um, it's it's really hard to keep it up and me planning to
to step aside, and the team having to carry on with all this stuff. It's it's just not for now,
but it doesn't mean that it's not gonna resume. We we decided to do it as a as
a more like find guest and do it on any day instead of just Mondays every Monday,
and make it like this uh hard thing to keep up with. Thing more like something that's meaningful,
but I don't know what the future is gonna be for that. I might even, you know,
help with that once in a while if I have, you know, as a little side thing that I do to help
the team. But I don't know yet. We'll figure it out. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah,
and for anybody that's wondering, so Jenny has been literally when she came in has been a principal.
Of this particular team, or co-host or host, right? Where she does a lot of the backend work,
a lot of the admin work. I mean, there's been so many things that she has been a part of.
It's not necessarily just the upfront being a host part. There's quite a bit of stuff that goes on
behind the scenes, and she has been a huge influence, positive influence on Cordon over Coffee,
especially after Brian left. You know, so these are the things that are you know. For me,
like you know, it almost feels like a bit of an end of an era, in some ways.
And as long as you're not leaving, that's the important thing for me. And Sonya said the same thing
just a second ago when she heard that. You know, so yeah, you are loved,
and you are very not taken for granted. That's for sure. And so hopefully everybody understands just
how, what type of energy she brings to things, and how important she's been to
this particular morning show every morning. So we just want to say thank you, Jenny, for that. Oh,
I love you, Black Jack. It's been a journey. I appreciate you appreciating me, uh, for sure.
And it wasn't only at Carolina for coffee because I remember the first morning that we had
the constitutional uh convention. We were supposed to talk for a couple of minutes,
and the other people were also supposed to talk. And all of a sudden, there wasn't time.
The first one to start yelling was Jenny. So we can't say anything anymore. I was like,
"Let my delegate speak." I walked out of the room, and everything. They had to go get me,
and I was like, "No, I'm not going to stand for this bullshit." Everything stop. Everything stop.
No, no, no. Jenny has to stay. Wait, wait, wait. Panic. There was panic in the room. Nah,
that was funny. That's funny. I met you know those days are rough, dude. People don't realize that.
I remember, I barely checked Twitter because everybody on X was just like hating. Like,
look at you guys, like the best life, dude. Those were the hardest days. You have no idea.
It was so much stress. Me personally, I was so stressed out. I was upset most of the time.
It was like it was really high. It was very high intensity kind of situation. I almost,
it's almost like a blur in a way, which so much like a stress, lack of sleep. It was, it was wild,
yeah. Early mornings, yeah, it was, it was crazy. I know, but I'm funny that you remember that.
Yeah, we were on the first session, the very first session, and they weren't letting people speak.
And no, we're not gonna talk. No, we're not gonna talk about. No, we're not gonna. I was like, what?
No, they were saying like their alternates couldn't speak. The this was gonna do, and I was, I,
I was just gonna have. I was just no way, because the whole process was already
like the constitution was written already behind closed doors. There was only like few things that
we were allowed to even. Everything was out of scope. We couldn't like touch everything
in the constitution. We were only allowed to talk about certain aspects of the constitution,
and then still they were pushing us and pushing the delegates away from what they wanted in
a constant basis. So it was really tough, and I was like, "They need some support, man." You know,
it's like they're like, "See, see, sitting in the back," you know. Yeah, that was wild.
They didn't even want us there, Damien. Like, I see Mike here. You know,
they didn't even want us mingling with you guys. They put us in separate hotels.
They gave us separate restaurants. They put us in separate buses. They did everything.
They didn't want two guys to talk to. Only at night we met each other, and after that, yeah,
our bar is closed. Yeah, we'll go to the other hotel because your bar was open. Oh,
our bar was open. That's true. That's why you guys would show up at the end of the night.
That's so funny. Yeah, it was great. But I remember that because I also remember Adam. Adam Rice.
It was so funny that that was the the first day we were at the university.
So we went to the university, and nobody could get into the to the to the hall
because they were setting stuff up. But Adam was part of the of the of the organization,
as you want to call it or whatever. And they said, "No, nobody's allowed." And Adam went mad.
And he started yelling, "Let me in! Where?" He called somebody's name twice, hard.
I never heard somebody yell that hard. I was like, "God damn, Adam!" We weren't. We were.
We were not allowed to ask any questions. We were seen as SMEs, so we had to go through
our delegates to to ask those questions. And we literally, we were just all on our phones,
spamming these guys, being like, "Ask this question. Ask that question. Don't forget about this.
Don't forget about that." And we were just like. We we knew we knew back then the entirety
of the constitution almost by heart, and we were just like spamming those delegates,
which I mean they were great. My delegate was Joker, and dude, I mean like it was crazy.
It's just like Jenny was saying, like we were not allowed to ask any questions.
We we had to go through our delegates every single time, and mind you, we we stepped aside.
We could have been delegates, but we weren't even aware that they were gonna keep us out
of the whole conversation because the majority of the people on the CC were we were the people
that we were. Involved in this process from early on, we were teaching people. We were going,
so we we knew so much, and then they didn't let they weren't allowing the delegates to to learn from
what we had. So they kept us separate the whole time. It was Jenny. It was even crazier because me
and Max, we we we were doing stuff together, right? But when we entered the room,
there was an entire row between the delegates and the alternates, and we couldn't go over the row.
Remember that? I remember. Yes. It was crazy, guys. So yeah, when you look at the pictures
and it all looks like we're all laughing and smiling. I know that Cash posted some recently.
There were some amazing things in there for sure, but there was a lot of stress.
There was a lot of pressure. It was. We also had a hard time. Did you tell him that you left
the room in the middle of it and you were just like, "This is fucking bullshit," and you left? Yeah,
yeah. And everyone was just like, "Whoa! Oh my God, Jenny left! What did he do?" Yeah,
Damien actually reminded me of that. I almost had forgotten about it. So yeah, it was it was insane.
And then you had like Fred showed up out of nowhere, and then it was like all this like I don't know
if you guys remember that was like they had they had scheduled Fred and and Charles to like one, um,
in the university. Remember that? Yeah. Okay. That was it. That's the last time they shared a stage
together. But the funny thing, they made. They made the announcement of the official CFD rep
during that week, and it just like went off. It was crazy. I know. I was sitting with.
I was sitting with. Oh, what am I call it? Oh my god. How am I going to forget his name?
Were we sitting at the same table because I was sitting with Husky, and with what's his name again
from Puerto Rico, Ada Frog, Ada Frog, and Husky made a joke. He he he put a sticker
on Charles's back. And then somebody from CS sat next to Charles. So Husky told me, you know what?
I think I'm gonna take the sticker away because it's it's about to go down. And Charles went off.
I will. Yeah, it was crazy. I was sitting with Tim Harrison, like, and I had Tim Harrison next
to me. He's like, oh no! And he showed me his phone, and I was like, what happened? It's like,
look at this. And he's like, they the announcement, and he's like, should we become a D reb?
He actually told me that it's like, uh, it's like, would you guys? It's like we weren't planning on,
but we could. And I'm like, well, I think it's fair game. And he's like, well, maybe we will.
And then it's been this whole time, and now Charles is saying they're gonna become one now.
So we'll see. What's up, Demos? Yeah, I just came up here to change the subject real quick
and bring it back to my OG, my fellow. Buddy from this space has shown me nothing but support.
Jenny, you've been one of the reasons why I've even cared to stick around.
You've always empowered me in what I was doing, and even in IRL, you've shown me nothing but like,
like literally, it feels like something an aunt would do for me type shit, dude.
The way you carry yourself around me and how supportive you are of me.
It make me feel like you like I've always known you type shit, you know. So like, I just want to say
that, you know, I hope you find whatever you want in the in your new paths in life.
I read your post today, and it's very sad news to me to hear this because no offense, guys,
this is my favorite host, Jenny. It's also one of my favorite of the OGs of Cardano.
So I hope you don't get too far away from the whole chain and our community as a whole,
because it'd be a real big loss if that were to happen. But I understand having to.
Need to step back when it comes to managing your own time in life because you have your own family
and things you want to get accomplished. So, God bless you, Jenny, and everything that you do,
and good luck out there. Thank you for everything, dude. All the years, for sure. Man, I love you,
Dima. You're awesome. You know, I support you because I also recognize you and what you do,
and you know, any anywhere I can, I will always support you. I appreciate what you bring to
this community as well. We're lucky to have you. You're an amazing beacon. This community,
you've kept, you know, the positivity and always pushing through all the negative shit,
and you still have your stuff going and and the art and the vibes, and you've made those IRL events
like better than other people, like always pushing through no matter what kind conditions we have.
So every every time I get a chance to show you some love, I will, and I continue to do so.
I'm not going anywhere. I'm just, you know, it's just time to move on. And like I said earlier,
you know, I I'll say something real quick because I spoke to like some people earlier, but um,
I mean, I'm. I guess I wasn't a founder, right? I was part of. I wasn't part
of the original Planet Cordonner Coffee. I was just a regular. I used to back in the days,
there was not that many people that will speak. There was like people were more shy,
so there was like always these regulars, right? I I hosted my own spaces. I moved around.
I was part of different spaces. I was just having fun. I was like building community in the space.
I used to come hang out and talk to to to Hiro and Epoch and everybody. Part of the conversation,
many as you do now. This was my community before. It was my responsibility,
which is what I was telling people earlier, right? It was my community.
Then it became my responsibility, and it has been my responsibility for quite some time now.
When Hero came to me, it was exhausted. He was burned out, and he was he was carrying this very.
He worked a lot, and he was just getting ready to like call it quits. And I was just couldn't let
him do it. So I told him like, listen, tell me what can I do? I'll do it. I'll help you.
We got to keep this stuff going for the community. It's so important that we do.
So I took off the weight of his shoulders from like doing the the the bookings
and keeping the schedule. We didn't have Linktree back in the day, and we didn't have Calendly.
We didn't have any of that stuff, so everything was very manual. We were like getting the guests,
making sure that they don't they didn't like get on top of each other. Eventually, we.
Found a way to like automate that, which had helped a lot. So then I started co-hosting to help him
get room to breathe, because he was the person people were showing up for. Honestly, I mean, I mean,
Ibok, I love you, but you know that Hiro had this thing, and he's got this heart and this way.
And I was like, if he leaves, it was just like I was just like absolutely not letting him quit.
So that was kind of like my goal. I was like, I can't, I can't let this happen.
And next thing you know, you know, just I became a a co-host, helping him take a breather
because you know Epoch works a lot, so he doesn't he he doesn't get to like host a lot.
Hiro was here like every day, all the time, so he needed at least a day where he could take a break,
and and eventually he he had to leave, so I had to step up and do more, and um and it's been years,
so you know uh somewhere in the middle of that, without even planning it, I stayed and.
I I stopped doing my own spaces. I just showed up for the cop, which is great, and I love it.
We've done amazing things. We built something super like super cool, decentralized in many ways.
We just carry on this thing the best way we can, and we have for so long.
And I'm so proud of the work we've done. So I would argue we're the most decentralized. Definitely.
Everything is decentralized. You can't even log in with like five people. Kumbayaing.
Like this is I know we're like what is the pin I don't know you haven't no you changed it
no I haven't it's it's insane oh my god that part and then who changed it I changed it no it's
the pin that Chad did so what's the thing Chad so we're all logged down yeah that's one
of my favorite things about you guys I don't know I always thought it was a stick or something
but you guys are always disagreeing at least about one thing so I know it's not
like you know a fabricated like you know artificial kind of storyline here. No, dude.
Like it's been real, like for real. Like the emergencies that we have to cover each other.
Like the arguments, the reconciliations. We laugh. With like, it's all of it. All of it, guys.
Like it really happens. Sometimes it's really tense. Sometimes it's nothing but like bliss. Um,
and through the thick and you know, then we just we we stick it together.
We we find a way to carry forward and get stronger. And we're we're great friends.
And that's you know best. Best part of everything is just definitely that, Jenny.
It's like family when you think about it. Okay, so I found myself. We're the gang that keeps
the treehouse open. We we definitely are, and it's definitely a family thing because once we are on
the same crew and in the same DM, and we talk privately, guys, all the time,
and none of it ever leaves our DM ever, which is one of the things. I'm exceedingly proud
of the fact that the things we can have a free space to talk and share,
and it's a safe space as well, which has always been one of the cooler things.
The other part about that is, is that we don't always necessarily agree.
And I remember at one point, me and Jenny, Jenny were at odds with each other,
and I fucking love her to death. You know, and it bothered me a little bit that you know we had
those particular arguments, and but then we always come back around to the fact
that you know we are here for each other, and we need each other, and we support each other,
and that never changed. And so it definitely feels like a family to me,
and it's something that I will carry on for my entire life. This particular experience,
no matter where it is, I may take myself next, you know. But this, for me personally,
has been one of those things that one welcomed me in. Allowed others to be accepting of me
for who I am as an individual. Yes, I might have been muted a lot. Yes,
it became part of the shtick that came along with it. But it was absolutely,
it was absolutely amazing the entire experience, and it'll continue on, obviously.
But at the same time, yeah, we are just like anybody else. Literally, with family, you can't,
you know, pick your family. And I feel the same way here. And that wall never changed
that particular part of it. So yeah, definitely cool. Yeah, I want to just throw in
that like the disagreements are definitely real. The differences in perspective, super real.
If you ever thought like the reason I know it's decentralized is because how hard it is to get
anything done unanimously. Like it's borderline impossible in our group. Like you say one thing,
half are in, half are out. Like every fucking time. I know, right? Like that's so real life,
right there. That is a. That's often how synergized teams operate. You're still individuals.
You're still gonna clash. I mean, look at your favorite. You know, even
if you're into sports like basketball teams, you'll see them like getting at each other
and on their training days, right? Like they're just like yelling at each other,
but they love one another. They're literally like brothers. It totally makes sense, guys.
I I I really um the full on synergy with Jenny involved will be missed,
and I'm glad you guys are like this with each other behind the scenes. That you're truly friends at
the end of the day. So yeah, shout out to you guys, all of you, really, and um. Like, guys,
if it wasn't for you, I mean, think about how many, how many less people would have actually come to
Cardano. I've, I've had so many people that I've seen over the years come to this space
and fucking literally get educated and then jump on on board and like start learning
or start even building. Most of the builders in this space that come later on an interview here
have literally always said, "Oh, like, oh, I used to come to Cardano over coffee as a listener.
" So it's like you know, shout out to you guys, man. Man, I appreciate you saying that, Demos,
because that is exactly the reason why I've been here for this long. Like taking like a lot of like,
you know, some some people have like said things about us, like cares and run over coffee
and whatever. But at the end of the day, we're here, and I've seen it,
and I know how important it is. It's the reason why I came. To help, and why I stayed is,
and that why I feel like right now is a good time for me to leave because I know that I leave
and they can still carry this on, is is strong. Um, is because it is important for us to have this
to keep the conversation going, to have you know a place for uh Cardano to. You know,
get to know what's happening, who's here. Get to talk about your stuff in an open way, and you know,
keeping this going has been extremely valuable for the community. So I appreciate you saying that
and and acknowledging that because you know sometimes we'd say things are granted
because especially the things are always there. I I have read a lot about this because I've had
my experiences. You know, like. People that I love, that I say I'm gonna call,
and then they're not there anymore. And I'm like, why do we take people for granted?
Why do we take things for granted? And we usually do that when things are familiar, right?
So that's why it's so important to be mindful and take a step back sometimes and look around
and say, who's been around here every day? And let me just like show some appreciation
because that is the kind of stuff that bites you on the ass later on. When those things are gone,
that's when you notice they're being gone, and then you can do nothing about it. So.
This is the kind of stuff. Being here Monday to Friday, it becomes like such a fixture that
you don't look at it every day. There's some things in my house that I don't look at every day that
I'm like, "Was that there forever?" And I've lived in this house forever, and it's like, "Yeah,
that was always there," you know. So. Don't let things, people, become fixtures in this community.
You know, they show up every day. They do things every day. If you see a post,
sometimes it happens to me, and I like the reason why I read about this is
because sometimes I notice, like, man, I used to see all this post all the time. I was like, well,
some somewhere along the way, you stop giving it a like to whoever's post,
and then now your algorithm doesn't show it to you anymore. Like, you don't care about this,
and I do. Maybe maybe I saw your art so many times that eventually, because you have so many people
sharing it and things, that I wasn't gonna like it all the time. So I skipped it a few times,
and then I I I just never saw it again on my timeline. And that's how you just don't interact with
people that you actually care about, people that you want to show love. So go find those people,
search for them, show up to Cerrano over coffee once in a while if you don't have time,
and remind people that you're here. Some you know we get caught up in this stuff,
and that's kind of like the whole purpose of having something like Cerrano over coffee.
To just make sure that we don't take each other for granted, right? And I think that's what what
I've taken from this experience, like to heart. This is a place to remember that we're here
and that we're building this together, even if we're so many people come and go.
I've seen so many people that will listen and then they start speaking and then they start building
and then they don't have time to come back to to come visit anymore. But that's a good thing.
That means they're busy, they're building, they're doing stuff. But don't you know?
Don't don't let that just always kind of go back to your roots. And this is how you build
your culture and you keep your culture alive. You know. And if you have a way,
and if by any any means you feel like you fit in this, you know, by all means,
like reach out to Epoch, reach out to to anybody here and the team, and let them know, hey,
you know, maybe I can I can help out Cardinal or Coffee. Maybe I want to be part of this thing too.
You know, it needs it needs a relay. You know, eventually people have things to do
and they get tired. Live calls, and and if we want to keep something like this going,
it's truly decentralized, guys. It's like it's absolutely. So help out if that's up your alley.
What's up, Mike? Hey, I pinned something up to top just for everybody at eleven,
coming up in about twenty three minutes. Samuel Leathers will be on the show with Atrium,
so he'll be being interviewed and just just discussions having to do with that particular thing. So
if you guys are interested and you got time, head over there. Oh, okay. Roadmap scaling product,
Mike. Mike, what's up? I'm yeah. Between you and me, I mean, like nobody's listening.
Are you leaving because of Epoch? Because I I would be. You know, I don't usually like to work with
peasants and and commoners. It's totally understandable. Oh my God, Mike! You know what?
I love you so much. You have to look into Lily's latest post. She got trashed by so many Canadian,
like like right wing Canadians, like they're like crazy, like it's insane.
Look at she posted something so so sweet, just normal with a Tim Hortons coffee cup, and she's like,
"I'm back home to Canada, whatever." My boyfriend got me this. French vanilla,
and she that post got trashed by thousands of people. Dude, you have to go check it out.
I couldn't believe it. It's like she was like, "Hey, to get out of our country, you like it.
" It was the most racist and crazy thing I've ever seen. I was like, "You, you have to look at it,
Mike." It was like crazy. She got you some love, love and support from a Canadian buddy.
Did did he call me a peasant while I was gone? Yes, he did. Motherfucker, every time.
Totally weren't gone. You know, you ate all of that. No, you don't have to interact with those guys.
Just just leave them talking, and and you ignore them, and eventually they leave.
Epoch almost spit out my eggs, though. Hilarious. I feel I feel seen by Demos.
You know those guys will never know what real maple syrup tastes like. Now you're the goat, Epoch.
There you go. That's what I'm talking about. If Demos is like noticing you, even
if it's to fudge you, that's a good sign, Epoch. Stop it, stop it, yo!
Cardano has the best dads on the planet, man. Epox always doing shit with his kids like a real G,
real gangster, non-peasant. That's actually high-end, like that's like high-level stature of a man,
really. So you got to give him some credit there, bro. Shoutout. Yo, yo, am I coming in clear?
You are coming in clear. And just for those, if you want to look into it, Mike,
I pin it up at the top so you see the Lily post. But what's up, Balaki? What's going down, Jenny?
Hey, I just had to come up and give you your flowers, girl. For years,
either whether I'm fucking in the shower getting ready in the morning or opening up my shop,
you fucking been putting it down. Always been the level head,
Jenny from the block. Dad jokes. I just had to come in and do one more vibe check.
Should I stay or should I go?
Shout out to Jenny for getting the fuck out of C O C. I say that in the best way,
but the cockbump cockbump won't be quite as strong anymore. But we will still be here.
I got to get back to the grind. Jenny, love you, girl, and hope you stick around here and there.
Of course, man. I'm not going anywhere. You know, I we gotta bring the strongest club back
to life too. So we got work to do. We got work to do. This shit is like NWO Wolfpack for for for for
for for for life. For life. I love you guys. Chat, you're back. Oh my god, you struggled today,
dude. I kept getting kicked, and then it would like accept the request. I was like,
what the fuck is going on? So, um, yeah, that was a lot of banter, Jenny banter.
I appreciate all the love and support. Um, you know, we keep keep rolling. It is Cardano.
There's a lot of things going on in this ecosystem. A lot of positivity that's needed, and you know,
action as well. So, find where you can like, um, maybe help do something. Uh, even
if it's just liking and sharing people's stuff or throwing a little heart emoji in those comments,
just help people feel seen. During the time of bareness, which has been—it's like the drought
that we're going through right now where I live. It's like never ending,
and just any kind of signs of love and support while you're bearing it,
and you keep giving it your all. And sometimes all it takes for people to like maybe give it
another extra hundred miles, you know. So keep that in mind, and yeah,
don't let your people become fixtures. You know, one day they'll be gone,
and you're gonna need that, and then it's gonna be like, oh my god, you're not here. What happened?
So yeah, love you guys, and that, and I'm not mean that about me, by the way. I'm not saying
that about me. I feel love, and absolutely nothing related to me. I'm just saying in general,
you know, Cardano over coffee is probably what keeps what what comes to mind. You know, just uh,
just uh, remember that it shows up here, and we make it look easy, guys. It's not easy.
That's what I'm trying to say. We make it look easy, but it's definitely not easy.
This thing is an institution. It's not going anywhere, and it's always where you know. No matter
whether you're you know in the bar hanging out, or you're in the bar and you're working it.
If you're not working it anymore, and you come in to come back into the bar to hang out,
you're still welcome, just like you were the minute that you you know, or the in the past, right?
Nothing's ever changed. It doesn't really matter. So that's the real beauty of Cardano
over Coffee is, is that you know there might be a revolving door of hosts and co-hosts
and people who are coming in and out, but that doesn't mean that at any point somebody comes back
and it's literally like they just left yesterday and they just joined the next day, right?
So that's like cheers for everybody knows your name. I was trying to avoid the cheers,
but literally it is just like cheers. Thank you, Chad. And and a thing that comes to mind also
as a way to support the show is like tell people that they can sign up to Cardano over Coffee
for free. Tell them if you anybody that's building, or if you're building and you forget about that,
and you haven't been a guest for a while, don't forget that you can just sign up anytime
and do a just check up on the community. Make sure it's like, hey, we're still here,
we're still building. Don't forget about us. It happens a lot to me that people just disappear
and I don't see them again, and then they're struggling, and it's like, hey, you could have just.
Come back every so often to Cardano Coffee and just schedule a little time
and remind people that you're here for the new people that haven't like haven't seen anything that
you're building. So that's how you also keep the show going is by making use of the show.
So go schedule your time and tell the people that you know they're building
that they can schedule time too and that's free. It's important for for for you to like tell that
to people. But yeah, let's talk people. If you're building a business on Cardano,
we're not doing projects anymore, right, Jenny? Yeah, that's like uh, that's like uh, my uh,
one of my last executive. Well, maybe I'll have another executive function action here. Uh,
so executive decision is, we are growing, guys, and we don't call them projects anymore.
We call them businesses. Okay, we call them. Anything but a project, because we want to make sure
that people know that we expect the same labels of account accountability
that we would outside of Web3. We gotta grow out of this project phase
and start treating things like they are businesses. So why? Because Cardano is for serious business.
Exactly, and that is our our marketing motto, according to Intersect. So yes,
we are for serious business. That was so perfect. We are for serious businesses. Yeah,
that was perfect. Yes, what's up, ebook? As the HR representative, I'd like to
officially give Blockchok notice that his new hosting time will be on Wednesdays, following
July eighth, in the morning at approximately nine thirty Eastern. We will be sending the calendar
invites to you once the cutover is complete. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Oh my God!
Way to lever it right in the middle of meeting. Well, that's the first problem you have to solve in
my absence, guys. Who's gonna cover? Well, that's that's one of the things, right?
And you know you can plug me in, and I have to work with my calendar. And yes,
I can help in some way in order to make sure I make time for this because you know we
we obviously will miss Jenny a lot within C O C, and that's my role is to make sure I plug in
wherever there's a gap. So, absolutely. Let's go. We've got three weeks, and we'll also be doing
co-host tryouts. So, if you want to be part of the cup, now is the time.
We have one of those unpaid internships available. I look forward to the new blood coming in.
You can't call it internship; it's illegal if you're not going to pay. Volunteer. Not internship.
Trial temporary employee. You can just volunteer, but it's volunteer. Volunteer. Okay, volunteer.
You can't use the employee word; then we'll have to pay them at all. Okay. Yeah,
we're all volunteers. Everything's right. Yes. Okay. Keep those expectations right.
I can think of somebody right now that I would love to nominate. Which happened to me actually
in a space. Too soon. Too soon. Too soon. Don't go start nominations. Wait.
I want to start nominations right now. Come on. No, Amba's in Jenny's glow.
We're not going to talk about her replacement here. Okay. Somebody's in the space right now
that there's somebody that I absolutely think would be perfect. But yes,
we'll we'll talk about it later. This is why Blockjock gets muted. We love you, Blockjock. Yes,
I swear to God, I looked for the mute button. I know I'm not co-host, but man, I wanted it. Yeah,
what's up, guys? I just wanted to say thanks to Jenny for all her hard work and contributions,
and just showing up. You know, every pretty much every day. You know, since I've been building on
Cardano and, um, you know. You you've been you know a thought leader. I feel like for Cardona,
you you have a good heart underneath kind of a rough exterior, and I just wanted you to know
that I appreciate you, and you know I wish you luck on on you know how you spend your time.
I'm sure I'm sure we'll still see you around, but thanks, Jenny. I appreciate it, John.
I know it's like uh we're like we're just talking about we're just this big family, like all like.
We I I love everybody here and appreciate everything you guys do I really do
and we do you know ask each other tough questions and we give each other tough love
and we all come from different backgrounds different cultures different things
and and we've you know this bumping heads and going through conversations and debates
and things is how we've kind of learned that about one another and and and through empathy
and like um you know just um. Yeah, just it's it's okay. It's okay. We grow from those things,
you know. Just don't be cruel. Try not to be cruel. Sometimes I do things, and I'm like, man,
that came out cruel. That's not what I meant, you know. Just learn from it. You know,
it's a big space. We have a lot of different personalities, different ways of saying things
and doing things, and you know, like just give each other some grace as well. So I appreciate that,
John. Hey, Buck, did you have your hand up, or was that from before? That was the HR message
from before. Okay, John. All right, so we do have a guest tomorrow. Um, I would love to stay here
and chat with you guys forever, but I have a cat that I don't know if he's dying or not.
I'm gonna have to figure this one out on my own. Um, who's the guest, Jenny? I think it's gonna be
Black Frost. They're looking for a way to bring Black Frost to the people. So yeah, it's only
Black Frost. So we're gonna have B here tomorrow and talking about the the new path forward with um
Black Frost. So stay tuned. And come join the conversation. Give them feedback. I know they have.
Actually, I should probably find that real quick, in case you want to look into that.
Because I know they have um, they have a form that they want people to fill out.
That they want to hear your perspective on things. So I'm gonna put the Google form in there, etc.
And I'll be hosting the cup tomorrow because Christina is on vacation. Oh,
so that way that means you have to prepare. So go check that out and um. Also,
make a post for today. You see, this is what I'm going to be doing in the next three weeks.
Reminding you guys that one needs to be done before a show, and that means the day before.
You got make a post, let people know so they can share it and all the good stuff.
I love you guys. I'll be painfully asked, but I hope you understand me.
All right, I'm gonna let it go. Any last words, Block Doc? I love you,
and I know you're not going anywhere, so I don't have to worry about saying goodbye. Nor will I.
And Sonya as well. And so, yeah, just this is one of many spaces that we will still be in,
and I just want to say thank you for urging me or nudging me to become a little bit more a part of,
instead of a little less a part of. And you've been exceedingly helpful in that regard,
so thank you very much. Believing you, I gotta believe in you. I love you guys.
