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Cardano Over Coffee ☕️ w/ guest @seomon4u
Recorded: Sept. 17, 2026 Duration: 2:03:19Space Recording
Full Transcription
The. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
Piano. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
The.
All right, Chad. What do you think of the new whole music? What's up, Angry Crypto?
Come on up if you want to talk. You had the good one going at first, and then you switched to
the other one, and then the last one's the piano. But the first one, where it's like
kind of hip hop, it's like bump bump. I think that was the jazz. I think that was the jazz one.
Yeah, no, I'm enjoying. I have options. I have buttons, and they make sounds.
And I guess iPhone people have had this all along. So you know, thank you Twitter for paying
your Apple bill and your Android bills, so we can have it too. But bump bump. Yep. So what is up,
Chad? What's the What's the most interesting thing on your timeline this morning? I don't know.
Clarity didn't pass. Yeah, but that wasn't today. Mine was. I laughed really hard.
I saw Nat had retweeted a Tap Tools post, and it was Tap Tools said, "Creating software is
practically free, accessible to everyone, and we still haven't found a use case for Cardano.
Come on, people!" Which is like super bitchy, right? And she retweeted it, and she says,
"Creating software is practically free. Yet you took 200k from the treasury, didn't deliver,
and disappeared." Oh wait, I have a drum now, don't I? This is so. Oh my god.
I don't know who has that Twitter account, but they seem like they're not really
pro Cardano. Epoch, I hope you're feeling better, sir. I see you down there.
Is he still dying? That's that's awful. He caught it all, didn't he? I think so. Last I heard,
he was dying. Yeah, yeah. See, he looks like he's he thinks he's dying. I asked if he ate lettuce,
and he just said he didn't. What's up, Angry Crypto? What are we angry about today?
Um, angrily calm. Ooh, good one. I like that piano. It's great that us Android users got the love.
We finally got iPhone features after like a century. So yeah, it's it's cool.
I realized it on the space the other, I think like last week, and I just kept pressing buttons.
Yeah. Apologies. The web version. I don't know if it's just me, but the web version of X feels
like it's become super sluggish and delayed. But hey, I'll take at least one positive,
which is Android feels snappy. A lot of things have changed, but yeah,
we got a lot of features for sure. Yeah, the big one that I need is for my spaces to not get
all crazy and blink or crash.
If they could just like have some stability there, you know, maybe three nines that would be cool.
So, Mister Chad, what have you been up to, sir? I spoke to you Monday. What's new since then?
Just solid labor, running here and there, trying to get things done. I went to the grocery store
this week, dude. The grocery store, right? Check this out. This is what I'm angry about. Angry.
I was like, I saw these cinnamon rolls in the bakery department, and I was like,
those look pretty good, right? I come home. These are fake cinnamon rolls,
like straight up fake cinnamon rolls. How do you fake a cinnamon roll? I don't know,
but they ain't real. Oh, so like they're not rolled? No, no, like they're like a cinnamon roll,
but like it ain't real. It's like all fake ingredients. Like I should have read it before I
I took it. And it's like in the bakery section where like it's like they have
other baked goods simulated or something. It's a simulated cinnamon. Like what the hell is going on
these days, bro? I don't even know. I truly don't. I feel feel like that a lot lately, though.
Not knowing what's going on these days. Three Savu out there, man. You got to get.
You got to be careful with the cinnamon rolls. Yeah, yeah. No, my ten-year-old
daughter has started baking bread,
and so she bakes a loaf of crunchy bread every week. So I'm, I'm good.
Yeah, your food ain't your food anymore. This shit ain't real. Like they're 3D printing shit
and making all kinds of shit out of fake ingredients, wrapping it up, making it look
like it's real though. So I don't know. It was, it was a strange experience. Quite.
I'm sorry for you. It's like when they make chocolate croissants, but they're not really
chocolate croissants. There's not like chocolate inside of it. There's just like a little piece
of chocolate on it. No, no, it's got chocolate all over it. Yes, those are fake baked goods too.
Yes, I've I've had the wrong one where you're like, but this isn't right at all. Yeah, that's wild.
I mean, it's pretty prominent. Tis the uh. Welcome to modernity, Tibet. We're so advanced.
We're so advanced. We can't even bake a freaking cinnamon roll. I don't know. I mean,
we grew up watching these shows where food would materialize out of this little box. Clearly,
we knew it was like fake food. So maybe we we already express some level of no. Wait,
the replicator from Star Trek. It's replicating real atoms to make no. It's not. It's fake food.
I think I've seen that clip. Is that the clip where the guy replicates like one cigarette
to like a thousand? No, there was like this old show called Star. Was it Star Trek? It's not.
It's not old. They still do it. And like, yeah, it's fucking old, Chad. Don't say it's not old.
Like, you know that clip where the aliens discover the cig, and then he just keeps replicating.
This is a hilarious clip on YouTube. I haven't even watched much of Star Trek, but oh, that's funny.
You'll see it. He uses the. I've linked it, so I don't. So the alien discovers cigarette,
and then the docs like, "Don't, don't smoke too much of this." And then he like replicates
like a thousand. That's funny. Let's see, Maestro. Maestro's going out in a couple days.
That's kind of a big deal. I'm going to pin that up to the top as soon as I find it.
Because Maestro provided those APIs. But yeah, the difference between the replicator
and what we're getting now is we're getting hot paste squirted into the form of a food made from
some sort of fake inorganic concoction that is going to make that food when it's heated
and shot through this 3D printer. So it's not like a replicator. It's not actually replicating
actual atoms of a cinnamon roll. It's a Timu emulator instead of like actual replicator. No,
it's weird. It's fake food. Sorry, sorry, not sorry. At least it'll make you appreciate the real.
Maybe you can like contrast now. I think that's why there's still restaurants in Star Trek.
Honestly. Because they play it off like they're like, oh well, people just like to come to
a restaurant and still sit down and and and I think it's actually yeah
because the replicator food doesn't taste right. Yeah. So what do they replicate
better food in restaurants? Because I don't feel like with cows, like it's all homegrown.
I don't know. Yeah, you think there's like a bunch of cows on the ship and a butcher and.
Apparently, we still grow stuff. It just costs more. All right, that seems fair. That seems real.
Not so utopian when you pull back that layer, right? True, true. What is up, Lucas?
I see you down there. I am also scrolling through the timeline to see what
I've missed so far this morning. I was busy arguing with somebody at CF. It's like you know a hobby.
I'm kind of glad this clarity stuff is like behind us. Because I was getting so excited from
like the crypto clarity of the world, clarity of the world, crypto world,
crypto capital of the world. So at least like at least this running meme, if you will,
I wouldn't have called it a running meme like now, but you know the at least this running slogan
in theatrics has is now behind us from a U.S. Perspective, and they can just get back to work
on whatever the C.F.T.C. And S.E.C. Can do. Um, it's just unfortunate how uh.
Internet culture has been so like you can't avoid it. Like even if you want to talk about
crypto news, you can't avoid the senators and all that. It's just like it was all over crypto.
So yeah, what even three what three or four rep Republicans voted against it.
Two independents voted against it, and all the Dems voted against it. So Charles was definitely
one hundred percent right. The optics of this bill, I find it a little bit amusing
that like everyone was like. It's all riding on this bill and other bill that didn't pass. Like, oh,
we don't need it. You know. By the way, we're getting clarity regardless. It's like, man,
like crypto X. We really, we're really funny sometimes. Oh yeah. What is up, Epoch? I am alive.
Well, I'm glad to hear it. Well, hold on, hold on. What's that? Are you convincing us or you? Okay.
Now, now I'm back. Okay. Dude, but no, angry was cracking me up. Yeah, I feel like crap.
I thought I was gonna be. I thought I was done with this yesterday. You know, you know,
got back in the bed, and I was like, no, reassuring the wife, like, no, I'm not sick anymore.
There's no coughing. I'm good. Okay, got in bed, coughing everywhere. She's like, get the fuck out.
I'm like, oh my god. So, um, guess it's. I guess I got one more day. You know, but no,
it takes what? Tell me. It takes however long it takes, dude. I mean, there's no. Nobody,
nobody can hold you too. I mean, yeah, I know you have no insurance, you crazy ass man.
I like to live dangerously. I like that very dangerously. Bond the insurance. Hey, all I know,
all I know is I was spending like twenty four k a month a year on on insurance, and now I am not.
So, what do you spend on going to the doctors and any of that stuff? I think
it's like like two fifty for each girl, so like five hundred on the girls, and then we had like one,
you know, what is it called? Urgent care. We had like one urgent care that was like three hundred.
So I would say this year probably like a thousand we've spent. Yeah, that's all tax deductible too.
Where health insurance is not. It's true. Yeah, and I can pay for it tax free out of my HSA.
So that's cool. I don't even have to pay out of pocket. I don't know. I finally wised up,
and I just have it as a business expense. I need those deductions. Did you catch a cold
or something? Flu. Oh, he's been dying. He's been dying. It's gonna be painful,
but eat like a lot of raw ginger, bro. If you can find some raw organic ginger, bro. Ew.
That's like. You said just eat it. Yeah, yeah. Just want them gnawing on a root. Yeah,
like buy some of the root. It's super cheap, even organic. You'll pay like less than a buck from
like a Whole Foods or somewhere, and then just like chop up a piece, like a little cube, eat that.
And it's gonna like speed up your healing super fast, and also immediate relief too.
If you feel like a nine in terms of crappiness, it'll bring that down
to like a four in like minutes. Angry sounds like he doesn't have health insurance either. Yeah,
yeah. I'm doing more of that. I don't as well. I'm doing rebel. Yeah. I'm I'm doing salmon.
Come to me, like you know, banjo kazooie, mumbo jumbo. Just come to me and. Yeah. Damn,
that was funny, Chad. It's not medical advice, but like ginger, yeah. I'll check it out.
Get some turmeric up in there. Oh, you gotta have some turmeric. For sure. Yeah, turmeric.
So my my my grandparents used to wrap like if you'd break something, they'd wrap it in turmeric.
Injuries and stuff. I mean, turmeric is very versatile. Those green pills. Hold on. Oh shit!
Green pills. Wait, can we go back to the dissonance of the like? Yeah,
clarity is going to save everyone. We don't need it. We don't even need it. It's like, well,
we actually we're we're totally fine. Oh my god! Somebody else will do it.
It's like it's like the same with like the people expecting like checks from the president being
like. We're gonna get a check. Did you get the other check? No. No. So he's gonna promise us
a bigger one now. Now it's five thousand. I'm now waiting on that five thousand dollar check.
I'm still waiting on the Doz check, the tariff. I never got any of those original American check
that like they changed and made it for like the military instead of like the people.
Did you see his his his new what is it Israeli warhead? I don't know. He wants to give them
the really big things to blow shit up with, and all that's gonna come from taxpayer dollars too.
Dude, I'm convinced. I'm convinced that he's full blown dementia at this point. Um,
for for like all the doctors that do like analyses of what they see. What about McConnell?
Have you seen all the pictures of him looking absolutely loopy? Yeah. No. I watched the doctor.
I do. There's this guy who's like. He. I don't know if you see the same thing,
but he he like looks at political clips and then tells you like from a doctor's perspective what
he's noticing about the hand motions and everything. Ooh. And he was no that's cool.
It's really interesting, and he was saying for McConnell, he's like, do you notice
that they didn't let Mitch McConnell speak or take questions, or wouldn't allow cameras like
in the the Senate Hall? Like, they basically he's basically saying that like there's a strong chance
that McConnell is completely nonverbal at this point. Yeah, and that based off of like
how he's dressed and looking, it's clear in the bruising on his hands, the tops of his hands,
which is like the same bruising that Trump has, that he's also not capable of like dressing himself
or doing anything himself. So like he basically had to be like. You know, dressed up,
put in the wheelchair, wheeled around. He can't talk, and then hidden, and then taken back.
So he's well. There's also rumors that the president has has had numerous accidents in his pants
while like speaking and stuff, and like how does nobody what? Why? Well, that's part. Apparently,
that's part of the that's part of the dementia, and that's part of like that
that Nancy girl that follows him, or I don't even know. It was her name, Nancy. Oh my God!
The the girl who like was throwing herself at him. Yeah, they call her like the diaper lady
because she like carries his diaper bag and like follows him around. It's crazy.
And they even do like thermal images of him like at places, so they could like tell you. Oh my god!
Serious? Yeah, yeah. There's like a thermal camera. Yeah, they're like,
this is the moment that he shat his pants, and you're like, oh my god, that is insane. So yeah,
like, and and then he's not remembering anything. Like, if you look at his interviews lately,
it's like all crit, like Islamic Republic of Japan. Like he he doesn't. No words, any
like he has no idea what's going on. It's it's crazy. I've and I mean I feel like there's
at least a good percentage of the population that was already aware, and now more people
that are becoming aware. We really need to have age limits. Like, come on,
geriatric is not like what the founding fathers figured for us. Maybe they didn't live very long.
So exactly, I just want to say that like none of the founding fathers even got to that point, right?
Like. This geriatric thing is new. This wheel around senator is like, oh my god!
Makes it's it's crazy. I mean, and it's not like one sided. Like, not to be clear,
I'm not like I'm not like a blue or red person. No, they did the same thing with like
Diane Feinstein. They wheeled her her around. What about Strom Thurmond?
Do you remember the South Carolina guy? Yes, dude. Yes. Oh my god, he was scary.
He was he was scary. Yeah, yeah. But there was this there was this clip that the the doctor dude
looked at, which was like. Trump going down the the stairs from the Air Force One,
and he was like hyper fixated on like what he was doing with his hands and his body movements.
And like before he like goes down the stairs, he's like tapping, he's making taps on his legs.
And apparently that's something that dementia people do because like their body
doesn't really like respond. Like it's the same reason why you have incontinence is
that like you don't know that your body's needing to do that. So rather than fall down the stairs,
he has to like hit himself so that his legs kind of wake up and be like, oh,
you need me to do some shit right now. That is wild. That they went over to another clip of him
in the the White House, the Oval Office, interviewing this person, and it's hardly an interview
because he's babbling about pizza and like things that make no sense.
But then she has like this very awkward like body language because she like doesn't know what to do,
so she's like sways a little bit, and like the moment she starts swaying, he starts swaying,
so like they're both swaying back and forth. And he was like, "This is another thing that
dementia patients will do because, like, they don't really know where they are at
in the conversation, so they will mirror like physical things to to kind of fit in." Familiar.
So the guys just like checked every box. Apparently, he's like, "He's dude, he's gone. He's gone.
" And all these people voting, it'll take you like, "I'm going to vote another term.
" It's like y'all are so insane. My God, I would just really like to see somebody like in their 60s,
perhaps. Maybe we could just go down a decade. You know, like we don't need to bring anybody up
in their 70s. I would be in favor of everyone over. Seventy, it's gone. That would be cool.
They should, they should go find grass to touch. It like, it like really actually pisses me off
a little bit because these these are the people who say like family values
and like family is so important to me, and yet they're not with their families. They're Doing
literal political bullshit until literally the day that they die. They have no commitment
to their family. It's completely commitment to their career, their legacy, their whatever have you.
And I think that's like the saddest outcome for somebody to like like die serving a forty year
term when like you could have done twenty and like had a whole other life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just
and I I don't. It makes no sense to me that that's how you want to end this world.
Like arguing over a bill. That you don't understand, that you literally can't even read
or comprehend, and you're just like doing this play, like that's so sad.
And people make it seem like, oh yeah, get out there. It's like no, that's you should feel bad
that you're putting these people in these situations. Like don't go for them.
That's pretty much like when we told everybody they should be a deer rat. I feel bad about that now.
We shouldn't have said that. Not everybody should be a deer rat. All right. I completely agree.
Completely agree. This whole like anyone can do it. No, there's no. Not everyone can do it. No, no,
no. Definitely not. I shared a post up at the top from IO Group. Did you see
that Midgard is going to take on the Plutus engineering? Whoop whoop. Mm-hmm. This video.
What's this? What does Plutus? No, the tweet. I don't understand it. Um.
Because this IO is pushing stuff out, that's really what it is. So they've spun off groups,
have left IO and have formed their own groups, like the Seven Labs that's doing Dataless.
There's the TeraTeraGon, the ICAN group, which is that John guy, and Block PQR.
Now Midgard Labs is taking the Plutus Engineering portion, so they're continuing to push things out.
This is no longer I O. This is now a business in the community in charge of it. This is a classic.
Hold on, I got one more rant. One more rant. Go for it, sir. This goes back to the this goes back
to the previous thing that anger. I am sad. Angry is not here because he was just talking about
this this this dissonance problem, right? And how when we were voting for the I O proposals,
Charles was very clearly saying, and a lot of people were, if you do not vote for all
of these proposals, we are fucked. We are in an emergency. There will be a huge issue
if we cannot deliver the X Y. That is what he said. Yep. The X Y Z. It's going to be
a complete disaster. Everyone needs to wake up. And what happened instead? In one month's time,
we decentralized a bunch of the people who were doing it. They actually took more of a lead
in their you know careers, decreased the dependency on IO,
and now everything is working literally better than it was previously.
So I don't know that it's working better yet, but I mean, it's this is what they wanted.
This is definitely what they want. We'll find out next year. This is definitely what IO wanted,
though. They they wanted to like push things away and not own everything. They wanted to get paid.
Well, we all want to get paid. We're not doing free shit. Yeah, yeah, but we didn't all receive
Genesis Ada. There's a difference. Oh, you guys in your Genesis Ada. I mean, I think it's fair,
right? Like some of us have to earn our keep, and some of us showed up with a keep.
It's like the same thing as I had to earn my keep, but I don't bitch about the people who showed up
with it. Oh, same. I mean, I don't usually bitch about those. Whatever. When and wrong, ma'am. Well,
I mean, next year is going to be a real tell because this is what we've all been saying is
that we've been saying we feel the founding entities ask for well, you know,
IO ask for a lot of money to maintain things. We don't like that, and we've said we thought
the community could do some of these things. So they've spun off two community groups, basically.
Now, is it going to be cheaper? We'll find out. To be continued. It's such a hard question to answer
because of like the price of ADA, right? So, oh yeah, oh yeah. You know,
it's like that was another post I saw someone saying, "Oh, we're spending more money on governance,
" and I'm like, "Are we?" Because ADA's in the fucking dumps. So like, is it left?
Has anyone done the math on like taking actual ADA price into account, like
how much we've spent from the treasury from last year to this year? Yeah,
because I think it's I think it's closer than people are are indicating. Um, you know,
but what do I know? It's just math. Well, so obviously I'm going to be a little biased here
with no diversity. Um, I've talked with Chris. We don't plan for asking for anything insane
to maintain Dingo. All right. Well, now he's singing Cypress Hill. So God help us. That's so funny.
The moment you said that, you heard the song too. Yeah. I want a camera of Chris's face
right this second. Like I could feel it. That's so funny. Yeah. I mean, you know,
you won't know until you know. Yeah, but I mean, these are our plans. We didn't ask for
as much money as other groups either, you know. So, like, we didn't ask for money to do events all
around the world. Hold on, wasn't? Wasn't your proposal? Wasn't it like eight mil or something?
Am I forgetting? Probably. Um, yeah, something like that. It came out to like two million US. Right,
right, but it was like an eight-eight mil ADA withdrawal, I think, around there. I think yes,
something like that, or six point eight, maybe. I don't remember. Are you still holding any of it
in Ada? I assume you still holding some of it. Epoch, Epoch. I would like to direct you
to the website treasury.blinklabs.io because on that website we are actually able to track
all that shit. And if you go down to the bottom, it tells you we've dispersed to date
four hundred fifty-eight thousand USDCX. And the vendor remaining is over a million USDCX
and some ADA, and we still haven't touched any of the contingency.
And of that one million remaining, we've got five hundred earmarked for the audit,
so it's not like that's all getting paid to us. We were really lean, and we just asked for
the basic things, the most basic infrastructure we needed, and the pay we needed to pay people
and for the audit. Yeah, and that's that's what you should do in a bear market is go to
the bare minimum. And so we asked for six point nine million ADA. That's what it was.
I'm looking at it here. There we go. Thank you, music. I'm gonna need all of you guys to shut up
because I need I need us to celebrate something wonderful that happened a few days ago,
and I wasn't able to celebrate it with Christina because our meeting was on Tuesday,
and they happened to to do it on Tuesday evening, and I'm so pissed. Hi everyone. Also,
69 million point 69 something something something something something. But Christina,
please tell us what did you guys do the other day that I'm so freaking excited about.
So I don't know. We release stuff all the time. Now, Starforge Pool, the SPO,
who's a little bit bold, went ahead and started doing minting blocks on mainnet with Dingo. So on
September fifteenth, Dingo started minting blocks on mainnet, which is pretty cool. Yeah, in an RV,
on top of that. So yes, that has us on preview, pre prod, Musashi, Prime Test Net, which is
Apex Fusion, and Cardano Mainnet. Yay! Yeah, I already congratulated y'all, but congrats. Go dingo!
That post is like insane. There's forty seven thousand views. I don't even know how that happened.
Because we, it's a huge thing. Like we've been talking about this for so long, and I mean,
you've been here. We've been here together, music, for a lot of this, and you know
how many times I just respond with, "Yeah, but is there a block yet?" Yeah, yeah. Like,
like that's all I ask. So I, I gotta you, you, you beat, you beat the epoch. Um, I, I can't,
I can't throw the same shade anymore. So well, well done. It takes about two years to accomplish
this feat. So well, well done. I mean, you're really underselling it. You should have been in
my apartment when when I read the message. Like I was pacing for about an hour because I just do.
Do you even do you even understand? I love that you shared the screenshot.
The screenshot of our chat. Yeah, but it's like, oh yeah, we made history. But you know,
it's not a big deal. Like, well. I mean, it's cool, but we're not done. You know,
we are still going through just the first level of auditing and correcting all of that stuff,
and making it, you know, and going through hardening. And then once we get everything done,
then we get to start trying to optimize it to make sure that resources are where they should be.
But yeah, it's fun. This is the this is the fun part, and I love the picture Chris chose.
Really, congrats, Christine. Thank you. Hi, Simon. How are you? Yeah. No, I think it's really great.
I mean, Christina and I go way back. We've been doing the later Catalyst Town Hall
or after Town Hall together, and I'm really glad to see us succeed. I'm very happy to see
Dingo going so well. You know. We we did get our start through Catalyst with it.
There were a handful of proposals where we built certain pieces, you know, like Ouroboros,
for example, and Ouroboros and the was it Ouroboros NTC. So, I mean, we did get a little bit
of funding over the last four years, I think, and it's nice to see everything coming together.
It's kind of cool. Totally, yeah. There's so many projects that don't, but yeah, well, finally,
someone who does succeed. Appreciate it. And y'all were first, first alternate block. So,
I I I'm going to be technically correct. We're the first non-vibe coded alt node. That doesn't.
That's a shittier claim. I mean, I I know for a fact that somebody else did it. I think um, was it?
It was Chris. I call bullshit. Async. Did did they did that actually produce a mainnet block,
a real one? I thought so. I doubt it. I don't buy it. Look. I think it was testnet. Actually,
fact check pile here. I think it was testnet, but I don't remember. It's like a few months.
I would have freaked out earlier if that was real. I can't uncry these tears, Christina. So please.
I right. No, no, you're right. You're right. It says it was a block to Cardano preview.
You're right. A tale as old as time. My thing works. Look at testnet. Oh, good, good job,
you little baby. Not everybody was even doing preview and preprod, so mad respect to people
that go through the process and test in all the safe places. Hey, yeah, but I mean
less respect for people who don't actually make it to the end of the road. Okay,
what was that in prod? Sure, but we could actually deliver quality to prod. Tried and true,
and tested, and you know. It's the path. This is the problem with vibe coding.
There's no allegiance to the codebase. You can build it, and you can get to some milestone.
Are you going to run that thing for the next ten years? No, you're not, because you know it's shit.
So what's the point? I don't get it. Yeah. I mean, you know what I do when somebody comes to me with
a vibe coded project? That's crap. We remake it. We remake it. We don't use your vibe coding.
Your crap is crap. Well, I am a proponent of using AI. I'm not a proponent of like having
it fully support you, though. You have to have some understanding of what the fuck you're asking.
Yeah, I sometimes wonder how much still needs to be reviewed. I recently heard a podcast. I mean,
I don't program for a living. I recently heard a podcast from a Google engineer. He's like,
everything should go through AI. You don't even look at the code anymore. What do you think,
Christine? Oh, that's bullshit, man! That is terrible. No, because like we find stupid stuff. So,
you know, full disclosure: all of Blink Labs uses AI. We have paid for accounts for even our paid
open source contributors. Not just the full-time employees, and we encourage same use of it.
We have put things into our repos so that AI knows how to work with us
and has the answers to questions that it basically would ask. So we try and cover all that.
I'm a huge proponent of using it, but you cannot just leave it unattended. First off, you can't,
as everybody knows. It constantly stops and asks your permission or something, or just stops.
And second, when I see like some of the pull requests and the the content in it,
I've seen where it divulges information it shouldn't. So you absolutely have to check that shit.
Yeah, I think that that's also what I'm getting. I mean, I'm I'm doing a little bit on the side,
so yeah, it kills me like the information that it'll just share where it's like
from your conversation or whatever, and it puts that in a pull request.
And we've seen where the pull requests and stuff that AI is working with are becoming
much more verbose. So we're having to teach it. You know,
this is not a chat session, dude. AI wants to talk a lot now.
About you, Ebock, what's your AI opinion?
I'm gonna assume you disappeared. So sorry, I was throwing up in a bucket.
What did I miss in the last 37 seconds? Oh my God, I'm so sorry for you. I hate my life. Well,
I love my life. I hate being sick. You should have your wife go pick up some ginger,
from what I heard. I know I need to. Yeah, how pregnant are you? This baby
's been growing a long time. You know, okay, I I bet there is something to it because when I was in
California, um, one of the doctors I went to was a Eastern doctor office,
and they gave me ginger chews when I had morning sickness. And it was it was like kind of like
yeah I have morning sickness I know coincidence I know that's what I'm saying
but they they actually that's what they gave me a couple bags of them they were just super nice
and helpful and they're like oh yeah take this candy this is going to be so helpful
and I just fucking took it because they told me to it worked so I don't know about chewing on
a ginger root I feel like that's going to be I don't know let us know how it goes sounds
rough sounds rough but where where are these vibe coders now where are they still here
yeah vibe coders No, the the vibe alternate nodes. So because because there was a whole they're gon
na somewhat like Sebastian's paying money or I forget like who there was a bunch of people. Um.
Pie yeah yeah yeah. Which which I thought was a stupid idea to begin with. Uh,
but they paid money for this stuff. Where is the stuff and does it work
and are they still developing it? About this, like I think earlier this week. Yeah, it's Thursday.
Chris and Fire are talking about this earlier, and they were saying kind of the same thing.
They're like, oh, so maybe it's not as easy as you thought it was. Ding ding ding ding,
and yet again, the problem is no one cares because someone has to run that shit for it to be
a production viable thing. Somebody owns it, maintains it, cares about it.
And if you're vibing it on the side, you're not a dev team that's going to maintain that.
You have to convince someone to to take over your crap. And that is not easy.
That would like like I'm doing that for another project, and it requires me to first audit
the entire stuff, find all the problems, remediate all the problems, deploy it
on actual infrastructure, not some Versel bullshit. Put it into like an actual infrastructure place.
Build all the monitoring and alerting. Bit like add all the security features,
and then like you know upgrade it and maintain it. So. If you don't have that part,
and and you're just vibe coding alone, it's a waste of time. Just give up. Go get a fruit cup. Okay.
Let me give you an update. So Chris's thing is called Sunagi. I'm gonna assume I I pronounced
that correctly, and his last update was on September 5th, and it says that they just passed
1,000 blocks on preview with zero errors. So, and they say huge thanks to everybody helping.
And every day we're building, testing, and fine tuning. And their goal is
they want to start producing blocks on mainnet with the same consistency they've shown on preview.
So he's not trying to be too wild and crazy. That's good. That's right.
Have you been to Bolero before? Is that a country? No, it's an arcade. It's an arcade.
They have tickets. I just want you to know that I have like thirty thousand tickets in this arcade,
and it's like just really impressive that I have thirty thousand tickets in a completely fabricated,
made-up environment that no one cares about. But I don't. I don't know why that's relevant.
I'm not sure why exactly. When you said it, the reason I thought it was a country is
this morning we were just talking about Bhutan as a country, and so when you said it, I'm like,
is this another country? I have no idea. Fuck! I got a good friend who's Bolaron. That's fun.
All right, my kids are ripping Pokemon thirtieth packs, so I'm gonna go silent for a while.
All right, have fun. Yeah, I love him, even though he's crazy. Maybe that's why we love him. B,
what else are you up to, lady? Um, I just uh turned my entire house upside down.
I've been doing that for the past few weeks. Oh, I didn't lose anything.
So I realize that I'm I'm a really good collector. I think I've told you guys before
that I have so much merch in this house, so much merch that I have to move everything
into my storage unit, which is like across from where I live, or like right right next to
where I live. But it's now it's full, and somehow I I still have so much stuff, and I've spent
the past few weeks just sorting through it, throwing things, and I'm I'm still not done.
Like I'm staring at it right now, and it's annoying the living shit out of me. So I beg you,
if you see me again, do not give me. Don't let you buy me things. Don't let me buy. Actually.
Don't let me buy anything. Don't give me t-shirts. Just give me fridge magnets. Don't give me cups.
Don't give me hoodies. Are okay. What about when you? What about when I take you somewhere
and you start buying bowls like a crazy person? I managed to break one of those,
and instead of throwing it out, I just put it in like one of those one of bot one of my boxes
because you know wabi sabi, the concept of like you know repairing it.
So I have a dream that I'm gonna go back to Japan and then bring that bowl specifically,
and then I'm gonna repair it in one of those shops. So I still have it, but I I also gave one away,
or no, two of them I gave away, and then I have two left. But I'm gonna put them in storage as well
because I'm pretty sure I'm gonna break them as well. And yeah, we robbed that store.
We freaking robbed that hotel reception. It was a great store. It had so much cool shit. I was like,
"What? What are you guys doing? Like, are you gonna buy all this stuff? Yeah, we are.
One of everything except for that. It's got figs. I don't eat figs. We're gonna buy all your bowls,
all of them. Are you sure? Yes, all of them. Every single one. Thank you. You're not right.
So the context, Christina and I went to this onsen in the mountains, far north in Japan. It
that in itself was a journey, very crazy one. But as we were leaving, we were there for like a day,
an evening, actually a day evening, whatever you want to call it. And as we were there long enough
because I wanted to go to the onsen, I wanted to go sit in the hot springs. And then
as we're leaving. We just see that they open the gift shop, and we just go in
and we just start picking everything, whatever it is that they have that we can carry, even
though we didn't have any space in any of our luggage. Just started picking up stuff.
And then you have these like beautifully handmade ceramic plates, and I,
I just I fell in love with them, so I just picked all of them, every single one that they had,
all of them. And these two ladies had to pack them in, like, in like newspapers,
and they were just staring at. I was like, "What is wrong with these two people?" Right, right.
And when we were leaving, the entire hotel, and I mean, yes, the entire hotel staff came
to say farewell to us. That was so sweet. That was so sweet, though. They all came outside.
Oh my god! Oh my god! And we were there for maybe like twelve hours max because we ended up.
We showed up. We missed dinner. Remember? Oh my God! I'm sorry for everybody listening to us.
We're not right, but we have a lot of fun. So if you ever get a chance to travel with us
for a work trip, you should. Yeah, but just, just. So I'm an unlucky person in this, in this,
in in this dynamic. I'm the person who is very unlucky. I've told Christina
before that I can't travel anywhere without it something going wrong. So last travel that I did was
two weeks ago. Not only did I lose my luggage, it didn't show up for three days.
I was supposed to be there for five days. It didn't show up for three days, and on the way back,
they damaged my bag. So I that was the last trip I went on. Hey, no, that's Japan trip.
Let's be honest. I I bought tickets for the wrong direction train. So,
and then that one guy was so confused when I we were asking for help. Remember,
he just he just let us cut through and told us just get on the train anyways and just go. He's like,
just go. Oh, I see. Simon is here. I I just remembered the one time that I went to Austria.
I managed to forget my passport at home. Oh no! So, oh yeah. But luckily, I live in Europe,
so I could travel with my like driver's license. At the time, they were allowed to travel.
Just rub it in. Yeah, but yeah, that's what happened when I went to Austria.
So I have a lot of fun memories with different countries that I've gone to,
and like all the stuff that has gone wrong. Yeah, we're we're very chill here in Austria. No, no,
no. This is this is when I was in Oslo, and the thing is, I wasn't flying from my hometown airport.
I was flying from Oslo, so it's not. It's like a four or five hour drive,
and I was coming for like the constitutional or the debrief workshop or whatever
that we're doing there. And I I couldn't go back. Like I I I had to be there.
So I just ended up going on the on the plane, and I was like, "Well, if they arrest me,
it is what it is, whatever." But because I'm in the EU, they usually don't check your passport.
As long as you get through the airport, you're good. So I landed and everything,
and then on the way back, they didn't check my passport either. So I I was fine. But oh my gosh!
See, we're even more chill. We didn't even check it. Like all right, you're going anyway, right?
You're good. Is it true that people end up in Austria and thought they were going to Australia?
Is that true? Ah, it's not in the mail. There's, there's not. I mean, they're not gonna see
many kangaroos here. No, no, no. I've heard that before. That people showed up and they're like,
"This isn't what I expected at all," and then realize they're not that they're in Europe. No, well,
I mean, I have yet to see that guy, but there's a lot of people who can't. I'll tell you,
he's probably American. They don't probably know the difference. It probably is, and I mean,
I'm like, don't hold it against me. Especially when I was in Vietnam, a lot of people were like,
"I'm like, I'm from Austria," and they're like, "Oh, Australia, great!" I'm like, "No, no, no,
not Australia, not Australia, not kangaroos, Austria, mountains." Oh, it's funny.
I've been to Australia. It was a very interesting place. Their work ethic—that's a—that's a thing
to be admired. Coming in around ten, taking like a three-hour lunch. In Austria. In Australia.
I worked in. I worked in Sydney. I worked in Sydney for a little while, and yeah,
we didn't work very much. Well, in Australia, you can only do that if you work for the government.
Oh, okay. I think a lot of governments are like that. Yeah. Um. Let's see.
Do you want to just get started? Oh sure. Awesome. Let's talk about incentives. All right. Oh wait.
Let's let's see. Let's bring Phil up too. All right. Are we talking about the proposal?
Are we talking about incentives and ideas in general, not proposal related, or where are we at,
Simon? Yeah, I mean, I kept it more open this time. I would. I'm happy to talk about the proposal
still. But also, we can we can talk about it more generally. I heard that IO Research
is going to have a workshop next week, so that's going to be interesting on Wednesday.
Let me check out the time. I have it here. Yeah, Fergie wrote me yesterday.
It's gonna be on the twenty-third of September. Cool. At four p.m. Well,
so that's like two p.m. UTC. Okay, like ten a.m. My time. Cool. Now, is
that related to the Intersect Casa Ecosystem Funding Work Group? Is any of this all related,
or is everybody doing something different? I have not heard of that working group. Well,
if you want a meeting invite, I got I got invited a little while ago. I think it's I think Alex Maza
runs it. Okay, yeah. I mean, funding sounds great, but I I don't know what what are they doing.
I don't know. So they didn't hold the meeting last week, and this week,
and that was when I was invited was last week, and then this week I'm not sure I'm going to make it
because I actually have a dentist appointment at that same time. So I'm not sure yet.
I'm very anxious to actually get to the meeting. I just haven't been to one yet,
so that's why I was going to ask because I wanted to know if you had. I see. Yeah, I mean,
happy to check it out. Send me the link and I'll come back and report. I will. I will.
I'll send it to you. Yeah, it came up because I'm not in the intersect budget committee.
I'm a subject matter expert for the committee, and it came up in that meeting, obviously,
because we talk about so much like funding stuff. So I know this is a hot topic.
I know different groups are talking about it. Where do you want to start this conversation off,
Simon? Kick us off. Um, God, yeah. So, um, actually, with the civics committee,
I was just looking at. Let's start this way. The civics committee is looking at the vision 2030,
and specifically, they're looking at the part of governance. I mean, since that's the remit, right?
And right, right. We have well. One part of that is role-based incentives. So,
I'm really glad that you put it in there, the the product committee that is.
I think it's super important, obviously, because I I wrote a proposal on it. But yeah,
but the what we're talking about in terms of the civics committee is what is required to get to
role-based incentives. Yeah, and yeah, that's what we're working on right now. I have like one, two,
three, four, five, six steps that would need to happen, in my opinion. I gotta say, I'm not,
I'm not unbiased, and it's kind of hard. Like I actually realize it myself.
It's kind of hard for me to be, you know, on the other side and think about what is like
needed without seeing the past that I. That I envision, right? I think yeah,
going in a different direction might be difficult. Yeah, I appreciate that because you kind
of you already had your own vision, and now it's got to be different. So I that I get that. Um,
yeah, yeah, but so the first part of that, the first milestone, and I think we kind of finished
that, even though I would like to like it to be improved, is creating the problem statement. Yeah,
go to the to the Cardano Foundation. GitHub repository with the zips and the CPS.
You can find it under CPS20. This is what we created like one and a half years ago. So one
and a half years ago is a long time. I would like to see it improved. Maybe if I find the time,
I will do that. Probably I will do that. Yeah. But this is the first step,
and I'm glad we have that at least. Like the most important things of it are there.
The second part would be develop one or more. Initial incentive incentives models that address
the CPS, right? So we gotta get something in there that addresses the problems that we that we have,
and then the next step, which maybe we can discuss a bit. I'm not sure what you you guys think,
but I think it is imperative that we collect evidence that the model addresses these problems
and that that it doesn't produce unexpected consequences. Okay, like what? Yeah, for me,
that's the research that we have in the proposal, right? Like we want to build models,
make sure that what we, you know, what we think that's going to happen happens in the models
as well. Or maybe there's even like a specific question that we want to answer, like maybe a, yeah,
I don't know, something that could be researched. Someone could write a paper on.
That's what I imagined that I research would be doing. You know, knowledge for the sake
of knowledge. This is okay. I'm about to bring something up that we had spoke about last time,
and there's a lot of discussion around research and gathering data. What about people want to
actually see something? They want to actually get some type of compensation for their participation.
How does this actually get started? Where do when do you get to pilot something? Yeah,
I don't know when we fund it, like. But we need the idea first. Well, we need we need we need
a model. We need a model that people can agree on. Or we need we need someone.
Hard stop right there. You're not going to get everybody to agree on anything.
So you just need a majority. Six to six percent, right? Yep, exactly. We just need that majority.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, of course. And I think actually, I think this is the problem.
The problem that we don't have those six to six percent is that we don't have a model that is
good enough. Like if if there was a model that I mean people want to get paid for their effort
right like there's already an incentive for them to vote yes on such a proposal
and yeah apparently I guess apparently there's no model out there I I looked at it myself
I don't think there's a model good enough out there that's why I proposed to build that model.
And I think that was part of the challenge. The resistance that you're receiving was
people just wanting to already be at the point of taking action and not wanting to support the time
you want to spend to actually figure out what what is probably the best choice. Exactly. How do we?
And I even made a compromise. We get in the middle. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
those are two different ends. I did. I did propose. I think I did propose a compromise
where we take something that is, I mean, not really good, not really great, but it is a start,
which is the model from Sir Corin. I don't think it's. It's. I mean, it's not gonna go in
the ledger. Never. I would have proposed for this to go in the ledger.
But a script is like a low amount of money, or like a reasonable amount of money.
That's not what I would expect for a full implementation, right? I think that would be fair.
Using that as a starting point. Also, I think the really great thing about this is we would get
some data back already, and then with that data we could build a model that is really a bit more.
You could refine it. Yeah. A model that you can't play, basically. I think this is
the most important thing for me. Yeah. All right. We do have two members of the civics committee
here as we're talking about them. And B has her hand up. What's up, lady? Oh, yeah.
I just I saw that Phil was up here, and since we're talking about like different funding models,
I know you built. I'm not sure if it turned into a SIP, but last year you were working on something,
you know, compensation via wallet or you know donation. And having parts of your staking rewards
going towards your DREP. I'm not sure exactly where, how far you went with that,
but that's something that I imagine would would work very well as the first step towards like
figuring out how funding should work, or at least you know compensation,
because there it's more like on a on a I guess on on the level of the actual delegator
and not necessarily the protocol itself. Because if we still want to figure out
how compensation works, but we we still haven't Build a standard for it.
This is like a very good first step before we move forward. But I'm not sure how far that work went.
Yeah, there's a SIP. Intersect actually offers grants if you want to go implement that SIP,
and you're a wallet maintainer. I think GovTools implements the SIP already. Hopefully,
more wallets do. GovTools is a GovTools went offline, no? Just recently. Yeah. Also, Phil,
I really appreciate the work that you did. I really, I'm really happy that it's there.
I think it's a great. It was a. It is a great interim solution, but unfortunately,
we don't offer the grant anymore. The civics committee. I think we. The we discontinued it
earlier this year. Double rip. Yeah, it was unfortunate because the the real problem was
wallet adoption. It was just like the solution would have been quite elegant
and it would have solved a lot of a lot of issues, but wallets did not bite.
It's very hard to get wallets to like. There are so many features in the ecosystem
that are gated behind wallets. Basically, everything about how people feel when they interact with
Cardano, that entire experience is the wallet. It is entirely dependent on the wallet. So,
what features people feel Cardano has, how fast Cardano feels, how quick the finality
is—all of these things are entirely the responsibility of of the wallet.
And you know this is quite difficult for the ecosystem because you can have tons of features,
all these things, and to regular users they will feel that they don't exist
because they're not exposed to them, right? This is even for things as simple as
like native script multisigs, right? Like on Cardano, it's very easy to have a multisig.
Most wallets don't like support having multisig out of the box, like creating multisig with people,
and most wallets don't support a lot of governance actions. Most wallets. Yeah,
how they handle interacting with the chain, like when you do something,
it doesn't immediately update your your balances and so forth. The wallets don't display UTXOs that
you own that are in DeFi, like that you can just cancel by providing your signature. Um. Oh no.
So there's. Did you look at that user onboarding audit from Alpha Growth, Phil? Because I really,
I felt that was. I really appreciated that because they talk about how they tried.
Eight times to put money to work in in a Cardano app and and failed, and I know this is something
I don't think the rest of the community's seen this yet. However, Alpha Growth
did say that they will be sharing their ecosystem audit on Friday tomorrow,
so you guys can take a look at these same lengthy ass documents we've been looking at.
But I think that's huge because they go through it how they tried to do it eight different times,
and then they were actually able to do it substantially quicker when they went to Ethereum,
which is like not what I want to hear. Yeah, I mean, we're sort of used to a lot
of the weird behavior of our wallets and and the ecosystem, and it's like, oh,
we get a collateral error. Oh, you you Google it, or you've you you've heard about it at some point
on Twitter, and you're like, oh, I need to go set my wallet's collateral.
And then you got to go click in some settings thing and hit add collateral and then sign something
and then it's like okay, well, what the fuck are we doing? You know, most people when you hear like
the first thing you learn in UX development as a UX developer is like one additional button click
is like a fifty percent user drop off. It's too much. Yep. Yep. So when you we we use our terms
and a lot of people don't understand what the hell we're saying. Yeah, I mean collateral.
If anyone else who's interested in finance, forget about blockchain. If you just know finance.
And you see in your wallet, you have to set collateral. That will sign a a huge red flag.
It will be like, what the fuck? Why am I putting collateral? What what is at risk here? What
when is this collateral going to be taken? Um, and so it's the yeah, even the word
itself is not something we should have used. I mean, like a normal person, if they just see,
oh yeah, I'm putting, I have a ten thousand ADA collateral UTXO. Um, what the hell? They'll be like,
I have to just like collateralize myself to interact with the chain,
and this can get liquidated presumably, and then. I'll lose all my money, and it's like yeah,
firstborn in your first car. All right, we've got a couple of hands up. I I saw Johnny.
I want to go to Johnny, and then we'll go to Keneric, and then we'll go to Damien.
Let's kick it off, John. Hey, good morning, everybody. Thanks for having me up. Yeah,
to to speak to Phil's point, it's um it's incredibly important what he just brought up,
and I actually never thought about it that way. That people's perception of the chain
is is almost almost exclusively based on the wallet experience.
And and and I would I would ask Phil, I would say, you know, what um what could we do about this?
Like, um, is is there could There must. I wonder if he has any ideation at all.
The only thing I could think of in my head is that Cardano would have
its only its its own tools list for things to add to wallets. But then it still might be based on
a like case per case basis for each individual wallet have to be custom, right? Yeah,
I mean how Ethereum handles this is EIPs, and their wallets naturally just adopt EIPs.
And if you don't stay up to date with EIPs, your wallet falls out of favor. I love that idea.
Cardano, the wallets don't really, you know, they they lag behind. They they just do
sort of whatever, and they're they're not really well funded. And we have too many wallets.
We have way too many wallets, and so a lot of fragmentation. They all sort of add their own features
that have nothing to do with the IPs or are not standardized. Um, yeah, so it's been an issue.
Is there an option in Cardano with the EU TXO to demand that wallets have a certain level
of functionality and maybe some sort of tiered approval sort of thing? So, like,
if you have this many options, you're considered a minimum. If you have this many options,
you're considered like pretty great. And then, like, anything above a certain threshold,
you're considered like cutting edge. And then have some sort of preference for for like advertising.
Yeah, you know what, the DApp Store is supposed to solve that, but the problem is the DApp Store
is supposed to exist in wallets. So the DApp stores was supposed to solve the hey do these do
these applications on Cardano adhere to SIPS and are they audited and and so forth but the it
was supposed to exist in wallets so who's going to be the DApp store for the wallets that's like
the FAA like governing themselves to be honest it's a social problem we just need to one figure out
like some man some mandate for wallets like this would not be me but I'm sure someone is passionate
about wallet standardization perhaps the wallet teams themselves. They should, you know,
do a proposal. Keep it exact in line with the SIPS, and then standardize what behavior
is expected from wallets, and then have all the wallets adopt that behavior. That would be nice.
Thanks. All right, Ken Eric, what is up, sir? Nice to see you. Hey, Jim. Jim. Jim.
Just want to add on to in regards to civics and grants. So we actually. Offered them,
I think it was five thousand ADA. We reached out directly to, I think, SDKs wallets.
I think it were like thirteen people, and we only got one response from the wallets from that,
unfortunately. And and back to the point there where Phil is talking about. How can I put?
I will try to put my let's say Cardano eager Cardano head hat a little bit away
and and and take this from a user perspective. So, interacting with the Cardano ecosystem today is,
I would say, like it was. It's like crypto back in 2016 experience. It is fairly complicated.
The user today, they they really don't care about decentralization, unfortunately. We can have
many opinions about that, but for this G2 guy who just wants to flip a hundred dollars to
a thousand dollars on other chains is literally three clicks. And I will compare this to like the
I remember Elon Musk said that when they were starting to sell Tesla cars at the beginning
they were having like like thirty six click on the website before you can actually order your car.
And then they as he asked like how many clicks is it to order a pizza. And unfortunately,
that is the friction that you are meeting and attention span amongst the users today.
Is that if you can do things in three clicks, then the user is happy. And I think we
in Cardano need to have, let's say, a second look at how you interact with the blockchain.
And and I agree with Phil. First interaction with the blockchain, that is the wallet.
And we have so many wallets, and we are not able to have, let's say, a volume in, let's say,
one silo, which reduce their ability to actually have any financial incentivize to actually create
a wallet here, because we are, how can I say, we are diluting the ecosystem. Like, yeah,
that's my point, my my perspective on the matter. No, I appreciate it. Thank you. Um, Damien.
What is up? You guys hear me? Nice to see you. I can hear you. I hear you're fine. We're good.
All right, all right, right. Now I think Phil is right and Eric is right,
but I've been dabbling in with my Phantom wallet lately, and I think we need to drop the wallet
and just buy Phantom to integrate Cardano because I can buy any token.
With my Phantom wallet on any chain. So the moment I want to buy a Robinhood token,
I just go to Phantom, pay with Solana, ETH, or whatever, and I got the shit coin that I wish in
my wallet in my wallet. So I think you know we we got we got a couple of good wallets already.
They ain't getting any better. We need to integrate in one of the bigger wallets,
and I think that's the way we we get more users to buy Cardano tokens or native assets,
however you want to call them. So I think that's we need to. I I hope the guys from Prime.
Come up with some good stuff. I'm looking forward to the space tomorrow. The alpha growth stuff.
Yeah, the alpha growth stuff because surely they would have seen stuff like this. So,
so they're gonna release that audit tomorrow. It's 97 pages, man. There's a lot
of fucking information there, but they have already shared the like key categories that they got out
of it. Areas for improvements, gaps—they're calling it—and that's like 19 different categories
where they have that RFP right now, where you can submit your proposal
and say why you think you could help with some of these. So I mean it's they've talked a little bit
about it. It's not going to be anything really surprising if you've already looked at that kind
of thing. If not, there's just a lot of information in there. But there was a little shorter one
that they showed some of us that really talked about just trying to get in to Cardano
and start using it. And I think you guys are all right. You know, if it's not easy
and it requires having to ask for help, people get disinterested quickly.
But I don't think it's that easy because you go to the Apple Store, you download a wallet,
you put some data on it, and you're done. But You're only you can only communicate with Cardano
and all the other other network, and most of the people wanna wanna have integration
to other networks. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I think we're gonna get there. Let's see how quickly.
What's up, Beatrice? No, I just I I honestly wanted to say that I agree with with Damon
to some extent. Like I I've been doing some like experimenting on Robinhood for the past time,
just like see how things are working there, and I find myself like every now and then I'm like,
holy shit, this is so easy. Like why can't it be this easy everywhere?
I don't have to think about like, oh, which which wallet do I have to use,
or what do I need to connect there, or do I have collateral X Y Z? If I have USDC on Ethereum
or whatever, I just need to like bridge it, and there's a tool for that. You know,
you have whatever it is that you need, and and it's just so hassle free,
and I really wish that we can get to that point where where The first thing you think about isn't
how am I going to get ADA because there's nothing else that supports it. It's more about like, oh,
how can I, you know, where do I get the best prices for whatever it is that I want to trade?
And I I hope at least like you know wallets can get together because we do have great wallets
and they all serve different purposes and that's fun and great, but. If we can't get, you know,
the normal guy, the the you know the guy who comes from whatever chain and just wants to trade,
if we can't get him through the door, then it's less likely that we're going to get institutions
because we're just making super complicated when it should be super super easy.
But I'm not even sure if they communicate at this point, and if we're just
like you know throwing wallets and building things around each other and trying to be better
than the other person, when actually if we're all lifting each other up
and making sure that all the wallets function the way that they should,
it would help us all as an ecosystem. You want like a wallet alliance? Like
the Armada Alliance. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Wallet Alliance. Yeah. Yeah. Wallet Cabal.
Oh, imagine the power! No, they wouldn't have any power because if I can't use my wallet,
I'll just do it myself. Yeah. The reason why we have a wallet is because people don't want to do it
themselves, right? So. Yeah, you, you, but not all the other millions of people. Oh, wait a second.
Well, so I think we've really, I think we've really highlighted an issue for Cardano, though.
If it is difficult for people to even start using the wallet, they're not going to get very far.
Got my own sound over here. Chris, we can hear you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He knows. Damian,
is your hand up because you still want to contribute, or just because you're happy? No,
my hand is down. Or I can put it up again. I don't know. Twitter, Twitter's all right now.
Your hand's down. Twitter just showed me like you were happy, waving at everybody. You know,
princess wave is what I imagined with you. This is waving. I I am excited for everybody to get
a chance to look at this report because there is a lot of detail in there. And Alpha Growth
is actually comes on Cardano over Coffee every two weeks on Thursday, so they will be here next week
on Thursday. If anybody has questions, if you have feedback, you know that's always a great time
to you know share with them, as well as get the updates on what's going on, what's new. So, Simon,
we kind of deviated a little bit from the incentives, but the wallet was a good conversation. Yeah,
I agree. Oh, that's fine. Um, yeah, maybe before we before we close it out,
I. I shared the the governance incentives workshop from IO Research next week,
so check it out if you're interested in governance incentives. Go there, give your perspective.
Let's talk about it. After a while, yeah, okay. One more thing, since our proposal is
is um is is over now, I was thinking about maybe asking like formally. Do we want um?
Governance incentives, because this is a feedback that I've got, and I wonder—I just wanted to get
more feedback on that. What do you guys think? Should we do that? Do you think that is important,
or is it already clear? I mean, I think that it's clear that the community wants some type
of incentives for participating in governance. I don't think anybody agrees on how to do that yet.
B, did you have a contributing comment, my dear? I was going to say, like, just.
Info action on chain. Do we want it? Yes or no. That's probably the easiest way because we could sit
and discuss it on X over and over again. But if there's no actual mandate
or data on people actually wanting it, because then you could also see who or what the reps want
or what they believe or no. So I think that's the easiest way that we could get this ball rolling.
And there you would also have data that is directly on chain of what. What people think they want
or whatever. So I think I would, if it was me, that would probably be the way that I would move
and just put it on chain because there's no point in continuing to discuss this.
We've been doing it for two years now. Better just have it on chain and then get it over with.
Right. Yes. I guess so. I mean, it's not a bad idea. I get. I appreciate that people want to avoid
the grift. But at the same token, a lot of people are saying they want to be compensated for
their time. Their time is valuable, so it's definitely something the community's got to figure out
where we stand on it. If we're not going to pass a proposal on it,
it would be nice to just know that, wouldn't it, Simon? Just know, okay,
the community's not actually supportive enough on this. It's a minority. Yeah, I mean,
I'm pretty sure that they are, but I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I think they are too,
but maybe you get some feedback in the rationale and what they would support.
I don't know if they felt like they were contributing more to it. Yeah, true. I had a comment.
Go ahead. Go ahead. So it was really interesting when Music said that earlier
about the different opinions. Because if you have ten people that are asked about
governance incentives, they're going to give you ten different ideas of what they see it
in their mind, right? So we all know, for the most part, that Most people want some sort
of incentives for governance, right? So then, instead of all the hullabaloo,
I wonder if there's a way to just create a little protocol where the options are presented to voters
in a gradient manner, in which they can vote, and as they vote on a on a zero to ten scale
with one parameter on one end and another parameter on the other end, you can get a sense of
where people want what type of governance incentives. Individuals would want,
and then that could that could kind of be
the template for for the final proposal. Does that make sense, Tim? I mean, we could. I'll
take that as a no. No, he does. Simon looks like he was. Simon didn't look muted,
so I was expecting him to speak, and I was just waiting. And you know,
sometimes it's like a good twenty second lag, so I was just waiting. Simon. No, sorry,
it didn't make sense to me. To be honest, I'm sorry. But what what was the idea? No, that's fine.
Let let's take a let's take one example, right? Um, pick pick any part of of
of governance incentives, right? And um, um, give two different options, right? And uh,
what can can you do that for me now? Just a quick thought experiment, like uh,
just just two options. We we could do this for for for uh for financial incentive,
or we could do do X or or Y, right? And then uh, we put we put X at zero, we put uh Y at ten.
And then people would vote if they're kind of in the middle. Perhaps there's some sort
of middle ground there. If they're towards X, X is the the the the type of of governance incentive
that they are really after. And and if Y, so so what it is is. We have already established
that we want governance incentives. People can't work for free. It's ridiculous to think they can.
All government service people are paid for for the most part, if they have a an in-depth job
that requires time and and effort. Right. The the question is what type of incentives
and and how are they paid? And those things can be broken up into metrics.
That could go on a scale that could be voted upon. So instead of arguing about it,
when people are voting, instead of them voting like yes or no, right? This is the modern age.
The computer has been invented, right? Let's let's have them vote on what direction
we're going to go in with our. With our incentivization for for participating in governance,
that doesn't result in
people seeking office solely for power or for some misincentivized self self serving thing.
Yeah, but how would you put that on chain? I don't think we have a mechanism like that, right? Yeah,
I I'm I'm gonna have to give it a little bit of thought, and then maybe what I'll do is um if I if I
if I can come up with some kind of model, the thing is if you can vote, if you can vote on chain yes
or no, um you should be able to vote um zero through ten, no, or is that something that
we just can't do? And and I'm sorry I don't know the answer to that. There is a mechanism
being built currently, but it hasn't been approved yet, where you will be able to do
multiple choice basically. Um, I it is that Thomas knows more about that,
but it it should be possible. Cause that is the fundamental problem. Yeah, that's like Tip 179,
right? Right, B. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay, I don't know the names, but yeah, one of them.
The The fact that voting is binary is inherently limiting, right? And it doesn't have to be, right?
So with midnight and and and and our voting systems, we should be able to, through blockchain,
be able to, instead of being Republican or Democrat, get a a a Bunch of different metrics
that are gradient. Okay. But it sounds like people already agree with you, Ken Eric.
Is this something you're working on? Yeah. So I'm not directly working on it, but we have CIP 179.
It's get infraction. We have it around in the ecosystem now. Basically, is where you can do surveys
and polls on governance infraction. So that was my say. We're gonna give recommendation
to Simul here. So. Have a infraction. Put up, let's say, four feasible, let's say,
roadmap with a specific end goal. So you you cannot just like we're gonna figure out
and research this and probably come up with a good idea. You have to be like, yes,
this is the road to get it on chain. This is the road to you know add to the tau parameter.
This is the way to and have like a concrete way. That is the So basically,
the polling option would be like concrete. Concrete, your specific. What's your flavor? Yeah,
because because you know, so I like so you know, paying for governance like a tax.
We have been doing that for five thousand years. People understand that this is a feasible thing
to do. So and then. The rollout is just, and I might think just like just put a cooler on it.
Maybe a little bit too early. That at least. So I've been working on, you know, and beyond,
and you know, doing surveys and workshops and stuff like that. There are a ton of data there,
and you basically CC member says yes, compensation. D rep says compensation.
Even SPO says you know we should have a little extra compensation for doing this thing. You know,
um, and and so so that is not a problem. The The problem is like the implementation that.
So to the reps get like this x amount and this and that is just a consensus thing.
I think everybody gonna disagree on it, but you have to get reached. So you're wanting to find out
like what? Yeah, like threshold. Like, are we thinking minimal compensation?
Are we thinking we're really compensating them for their time? Because I feel like that's
a wide spectrum there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And another thing, what I meant by
a little bit early to let's say do this now is because I O R, you know,
they are also let's say currently looking into identity on chain.
They that will basically turn everything that we know about voting power
and voting concentration today upside down, and also let's say the general dynamic
for our plutocratic democratic ecosystem. And then also they also look into Incentivize this model.
That I don't know the let's say end goal for this. I've been partially just talking with Fergie now
and then about this, and it may be not end up on Cardano as a layer one, to be like specific.
Basically, it's like as a regular Degen user, you will not even like say notice governance
unless you explicit want to participate. I mean that seems fair. Johnny, would you want to add? So,
so the the amount to be paid for a certain governance action or position, right?
That's a perfect case in point for for my idea for this like gradient system, right?
Because you could have the lower threshold, the upper threshold,
and where people vote will show you, and then it would be like an immediate consensus,
and just kind of cuts through a lot of the red tape. But thanks so much for listening.
There's a lot of detail to it though, because like if you compensate people for their vote,
do we compensate them more when they provide adequate rationale? Well,
I think it should be demanded. Like if you if you give a vote, you should you should be
able to justify that vote. I think that there should there should always there should always be
a box for why, because we want metrics, we want feedback. If not, you just get this kind
of mechanical, sterile voting system, and you can't glean anything or or or or make any inferences
from it. It doesn't benefit you in the future at all, except they voted this way.
There always should be maybe several different aspects of why, as long as it doesn't need to be
a pistol or something a pistol. Because, for example, why do you want to vote for the
for the min pool cost for me? Just yet, so I can put it on seventy five or seventy five eight
or was it? Yeah, seventy five. Yeah, seventy five. Seventy five eight.
So my delegates can earn more. I don't need to put entire pistol. Why I voted for that?
You know what I'm saying? So yeah. And you know there are many let's say models out there in the air
already. Let's say a Michele come here, you know he has a smart contract. So if you have a proposal,
you put forward, you put forward, you know, a budget for. You have a model where you you can take
a cut a tax from the deposits on the governance proposals, and that's going to be distributed at
each model. You have ideas about saturating, fully pool and distributing, and you also have.
You can do on the ledger side, for example, increase tau, for example, and distribute it info.
And yeah, and I also agree, rationality. That I think are valid vote shouldn't be even valid
if you don't have a rationality, because by voting you just put up down,
and you don't basically give any idea to the proposal what's actually going on. Yeah, and I mean,
I think we all thought that people would move their vote when their their delegate
wasn't really sharing that rationale. But what we've learned is that people don't move
their their delegation. You know, they just pretty much set it and forget it. I wonder.
Sticky delegation. Yeah, it's. I mean, that's that's why I chime in because I guess that's
because that's the incentive, right? Like people wanted to withdraw their ADA,
and so they delegated to someone, and that's it. Yeah, they just know that this is this is
an obligation they have to do this, so they just do it and then they never think about it again.
It's just you know the one hundred of us in our close group that are actually focusing on this shit
all the time, but there's x number of wallets out there that never touch it.
You know they just set it and they continue on. It's almost two hundred million
ADA sitting in in a zero. Holy shit! Yeah, it's crazy. It is nuts, isn't it?
Yeah just just imagine they had an incentive to care. Or if it just like fucking ended after
a while, like you had to redelegate. Right. That's brilliant. Because it'll it'll be always abstain.
So I think if if the DRO becomes inactive, you're automatically going to always abstain.
I think because all the wallets are automatic abstain now. So, guys, for me,
it's because I don't give a shit. I don't even know what wallet my shit is like delegated to.
And I couldn't probably find it if I had to, and it would be such an exorbitant pain in the ass.
There's absolutely nothing you can tell me that would make me want to like go find it
and redelegate. I think. And we're back to the wallet conversation again. But in another.
It's always wallets. But but Joe, we gotta fix this. If you got a couple of million ADA delegated to
the Dutch State Pool, I'll tell you how to do it. I got I got the good news for you. Come out
and hold your hand. I got good news for your journey, and that is on the Deichster hard fork,
we're gonna implement CIP one eighty one. That's basically gonna remove the DREP requirements
for withdrawal withdrawals, so you don't have to mandatory delegate or DREP to to participate. Okay.
So many sips. So many sips. They fund. There's so many of them. Good lord!
And why does the SIP site start with one? Because I never want to see the oldest SIP.
I'm always looking for the newer ones. True. Sorry, it's not about me. It's not about me, Christy.
I got it. Oh, please go ahead and open a PR right now. I want to see it. That's so valid. Let's see.
Where's the GitHub? Where's the GitHub link? Yeah, well, you know. Alright, guys. So,
what's the verdict? So the other the other day, I wanted to complain about something to Christina,
and I was like, Oh no, shit! You're gonna ask me to open a PR. So that's that's my that's
my new thing now. So whenever you open an issue, the pull request is when you have the answer. Yeah,
I assume that you have the answer. So which is also why to make an issue,
you no because you're gonna say, Hey, I need you to give me an answer. No,
you're gonna you're gonna ask me to also give you the answer. So I I'm scared of you. I know that.
That's just good management. Oh my God! Yeah, so I think I am going to put in an issue
under the SIP GitHub repo. You're gonna hate me. What's the verdict, guys? Should we should we ask,
like, formally in a governance interaction, if there should be governance incentives,
or is it a clear yes? The need is clear, but how? It's where you need to put. Yeah, yeah.
You have to put forward, you know, like four different roadmaps. Which one do you want?
One hundred percent. I I I can I could I was able to create one. I'm not going to create three more.
I'm sorry. It's only one info action, but you have four four options options like the gap analytic
that you have done already. Yeah, I mean, still. I personally think that it should just be a yes
or no for now, because if you start opening the door between, oh, you have option one, two, three,
somebody's going to suggest, but I want option four, five, and six, but and then a fourth person
is going to say, but I want option eleven, thirteen, and fifty-nine,
and then we're going to continue this over and over and over again, first.
We need to understand how many DREPs and people want to be compensated in the first place,
and then in their rationales, you can leave room for them to actually explain
what they imagine could be the best possible way. And with that, you already have the data that
you need to be able to actually produce something that can touch upon all of these.
And then you can use use the the data that you've gathered gathered there to say, you know,
when you eventually come with a new proposal and say, well, I've taken up the data from this, this,
and this, and this is what we came up with. Because you're going to end up having to do this over
and over and over again, and it's going to come to a point where it's just going to be annoying.
Because you know, there's there's no solution that is based on data that is actually coming from
the DRECs themselves. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, I like it. Thank you, P. Thanks.
You're welcome. I have many more of these ideas. Unfortunately. Oh God! Hey, you shut your mouth!
No, I I think that's good reasoning. I I mean, not that I don't like Ken Eric's idea
of creating multiple, you know, options for the T reps. I just I'm not the guy for that. I'm sorry.
I have I've gave them one option. I really put a lot of thought into it,
and I got um you know a bit disappointed with the answer to that. Yeah, basically,
usually what I do is I think about like I have a kid, and usually whenever I want to do something,
I give I give the option of Do you want to do this or this? And then it's okay. You want to do this?
Cool. I win regardless because I want to do either or, but I've already given the decision
between X, Y, and Z, and I already know what the options are. Exactly.
That's what you're supposed to do. Yes or no. If it's a no, then you're done.
You don't have to do anything. If it's a yes, then you already know what other stuff you need to be
able to prepare around it to be able to make it be successful. No, I mean, imagine they're a kid.
That's so. No, that's what I'm saying. I think it's. I think it's accurate.
I think this is a good thing. Yes. Yes. Exactly how you have to think about it.
The dumbest kid you ever encountered. Oh my god! I mean, it's not the worst idea. I'm.
I don't respond well to it, but a lot of other people probably would. I wasn't saying
that you should imagine people as kids. It's just easier when you make it easier. That's creepy,
dude. You're supposed to visualize them. Okay, you you. There's a lot of decisions that
you're making. You know how it is when you're requiring something. Yes, I'm always. Oh,
that means I should do it twice. That means I should do it twice as hard. Okay, I should make. Sure.
I should do it to the point where it just pisses you off. Yes. Okay, to help you out, the music.
Just imagine a left-handed gorilla. Okay. Where are you meeting your gorillas?
That that doesn't translate well into English. I don't understand that.
It doesn't translate to Norwegian either. I don't know what he. No, it is not a left-handed gorilla.
Okay. Um. I guess. I guess it. He means it's more difficult. I don't. I don't know. Okay, Eric.
I'm working with this. I'm trying. Okay. Yeah. It's just my brain that finds out one.
I want to protect the kids. You just have to be ready. If you tell a kid, hey,
there's meatloaf for dinner or nothing, they're probably going to pick nothing.
They're going to be like, I want cake, and then like, no, you're not getting anything. You know,
if you make a couple options and you say which one, the you know half of your kids might be like,
well, we don't want that, but two of them might be like, you know, we'll take the hot dog,
and then you get the hot dog. And it shouldn't be too many options. It shouldn't be
too many options. It should be tops three options because if you get too many,
you're going to end up in like a safari of just confusion. People can't remember
more than three things anyway. I'm gonna make this easy for you with meatloaf.
You make everybody their own mini meatloaf, and they can make it whatever shape they want. Okay,
meatloaf is never going to be your argument again. Oh, that's so sneaky, brilliant! I know, right?
That's absolutely accurate. Instead of meatloaf, because yeah, or bread,
or whatever you're going to cook, like yeah. And with pizza, you could be like,
"Do you want a square one or a round one?" What's wrong with buns? The fact that you want raisins.
The fact that you want raisins. Okay, we had a civics meeting earlier,
and he opened the meeting with, "Oh, I'm my bones with raisins," and I was like,
"Are you clinically insane?" It's a whole left-handed gorilla. Exactly. Left-handed gorilla. Oh god.
Oh my god. For sciambolical in any form or fashion. If Charles says that statement in
the next month, I want credit for it. It's a left-handed gorilla. Hell yeah. I made it funny.
Do gorillas even write? Like, how would we know if it was left or right? Oh no, wait, actually,
they pick. It makes no fucking sense at all. No, like even ambidextrous,
we would have to ask a zoologist. Ooh. The best gorilla anecdote I've ever heard is when a when a
when you get raped by a gorilla, all you can do is bear down and wait for it to be over.
That's Billy Bob Thornton. When you what, Johnny? When you what? When you what?
He said an inappropriate thing. I'm not repeating it. I'm not repeating it.
It begins with an R. It ends with an E, and it was not appropriate. Oh, I heard him.
I heard him loud and clear. Johnny,
I hope the soap falls in your shower. I'm sorry. I hope your soap was warm today.
I just got smacked with a left-handed gorilla.
That's going to be like what I say now. Be we're going to do that for the rest of the day today.
So what? What's why do we why do we not like a left-handed gorilla? Like,
do we like the right-handed ones, or what's wrong with with with the left-handed gorilla? Like,
I need more details. Like, come on, come on, Ken Eric. When I heard that,
I thought my head was gonna explode. I thought of this with buns. Like what? Now you're thinking.
Oh my god! Somebody buy this man his raisin buns. I know. I I I think I'm doing everything
wrong today because you know, buns not okay. Left-handed gorillas. There's nothing wrong with being
a bun man. This also sounds like a journey. I swear to God. What are raisin buns?
So they're basically buns with raisins in them. That's that's it. Like sweet buns with raisins
in them. But B, is this like that freaking cracker that you were unable to describe to me?
You may call something something that doesn't mean it to the rest of us, because that was. Oh,
I'm gonna find pictures. I'm gonna find pictures. It's it's it's literally like all
of Europe has it, right? I would ask Simon, like you do. You guys have something called Knäckebrot.
I know it's like in German. Are they like cinnamon buns or cinnamon? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm gonna find pictures, like dinner rolls with raisins in them. Like dinner rolls? Uh,
crisp breads. Crisp bread. What the fuck is a crisp? All right, Google, help me out here. Crisp. No,
that's the that's the that's the bread thingy that I was talking about. Yeah,
that shit's just weird. Nobody eats that. Yeah, we do. No, that's like what you eat if you're you
you have to have surgery and you're not allowed to eat real food. I'm pretty sure it's actually.
I eat it every day. I think it's made out of particle. I eat that. Particle board. Um,
I. Banana bread is awesome with raisins. And for the record, wait, why can't I comment here?
Don't know for for for for the record and in defense of our Norwegian and me and B,
the origin I think is Swedish. So that explains everything. Of what your
since you since you have abilities, you should be able to make the chat bubble now.
If you go down there, that bottom right corner, and like share the space
through that little bottom right corner, maybe we'll get the chat bubble now from you.
I see a chat bubble. You don't see one. I don't. No, we have a plus sign, right? How do I?
How do I do that? Okay, here's another way to hack it. Go to the space
where there should be comments. Like, click on the space and then like share it from there
to the group chat. I found it. I just went to the to the main page where the link to the space was,
and I posted it there. Thank you. And then I put it in the jumbotron, so you can all see
the raisin buns. But also, when you see them, just imagine you can also have the same buns
but with chocolate. But some of us choose to take them with raisins, which is insane. Um,
I mean that doesn't look good. Honestly, it's horrible. It's yeah. It's so you're just eating
hamburger buns as a meal, be? No, no, no. Those are sweet. These are sweet buns. Yeah,
but it still just looks like a hamburger bun. No, they're not. They're sweet.
They're made with like sweet flour. I don't know. No, they're made of wheat.
Just it's like the meatballs of a hamburger bun, and that's you said you're just eating that.
No breakfast, no lunch, just a just a hamburger bun with sweet dough. No, no, no, that's knedlebo.
That's something else. I'm gonna find that too. Give me a second. And you have French buns,
and they have like a different liquids things inside of them, like sauces and vanilla sauce. Yeah,
jelly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't call that liquid.
I would call that more gelatinous. Yeah, gel, jelly thing. From the makers of fruitcake.
See, I like a maple long john with like raspberry or cherry jelly in it. Oh,
so hard to find a donut shop that will fucking do it anymore. It's crazy.
I posted it to the jumbotron. That's that's what I eat every day. But it it doesn't.
Mine don't look like that. But it's it is really good. Like it's a bland taste.
You add whatever you want on top of it. Everybody's happy. It's chef's kiss.
Thank you. So you say. Bees out here eating like a hobbit on an adventure.
It's cheap. It's good, and it's good for you. I don't know what the problem is.
Definitely hobbit food. My favorite would be the roadie buns. Roadie buns are definitely the best.
I think we need like a Cardano Buns convention or something. Let me figure this out. One for four.
I beg you, do not call it that. Do not call it that. Call it something else.
We're not having that one in Vegas, guys. She's not opposed to it. I mean,
we'll get a lot of people, but we're not going to get the right people unless you know
how to sell Cardano to. Yeah. Anyways, let's just not call it that. You guys,
have you had Rhody Bunsby? They're like coffee buns. No, I don't. I don't even know
what they are. Let me Google. I put it up at the top on the jumbotron. They're the best.
It's um, it's like a what is it like a brioche? That looks gross. Oh my God, no! Um,
and then it's looks super sweet. Well, it's got like butter on on the top of it,
and then it's got some of that chocolate on the top. The well, it's like a coffee.
It's not chocolate. It's like a coffee thing. It's really good. I only know of a place
in California to buy them. I need to learn how to make them. That's what I'm gonna do.
So I guess they're called coffee buns as well, but roadie buns. What's the country of origin
of these? Somewhere in Asia. It was in the Korean market. I don't know. They look cheesy too.
Are they not cheesy? No, like some of them will have. You can get them with like a a cream cheese
inside of them, but I think they're from Malaysia. Yes, so they're sweet soft yeast rolls
filled with a pad of butter and topped with crispy coffee flavored cookie crust. It's really good.
Now I'm looking up recipes. I'll let you know if I figure it out. Hawaiian buns are the best.
I mean, they're okay. Yeah. Welcome to Cardano over coffee, where we discuss buns.
We're discussing coffee buns. It's appropriate. We should incentivize them. Oh dear lord, guys,
I love you. This is going to have. Wait for them to get rock. So go ahead. No, no, it's.
You wait for them to get hard and then throw them at people we don't like. No, you're off.
Oh my god, we're gonna end up in a dark place, everybody. Okay. I found a recipe. I'm gonna learn
how to make these things. It can't even be that hard. Milk powder? Who the fuck has milk powder?
All right. Well, that part I you do in a few minutes. I will, right? Like, is it?
Can it be delivered? And you need a little bit of cinnamon in it and vanilla sugar if you guys
have that over in the US. She's not making those buns. She's making whatever coffee buns that
she was looking at. Yes, instant coffee powder. That's what we need for the topping. Okay.
Did you ever get to a point in your life where you thought you'd have to explain to
intelligent adults what a raisin bun is? Yeah, I've done that twice today.
Even in in the meeting that we had previously, it happens. I'm I'm getting used to it. Yeah,
but people don't understand how insane it is. It's just it is. Canali, I love you.
You're you're amazing, but it's just I the raisin bun thing. I I don't think
we can be friends anymore. Like this this I didn't even know you didn't tell me. You didn't tell me.
I've known you for so many years, and you didn't tell me. He probably gets a stone with pushing
the hamburger raisin buns hard today, huh? I don't think they're hamburger buns.
He has a European bakery in his town. I mean, I want a European bakery, please.
I have cheat code because I've been to Europe, but yeah, they're sweet. They're sweet sticky buns.
They're good. It's a hamburger bun, but we put raisins in it. No, it's not, you weirdo.
That's a gorilla thing. It's delicious. This has been a very entertaining space. Thank you, guys.
Johnny, was there something you wanted to contribute, or not, Johnny? Alex, I'm sorry,
with the hand up. Johnny, not you. You're weird. Come on, let's give Alex a chance to be weird. No,
I just had commentary on the be explaining the month. Yeah. Have a good day.
I think we're gonna wrap this up. You guys are gonna get me in trouble. Thank you guys very much.
This is a very entertaining, entertaining ending to our enlight. Yeah,
it was an enlightening show talking about wallets and what people actually want.
Talking about incentives and whether people actually want to pay the money
or just want to wishful think it. But and then somehow it degraded into Cardano buns. Listen, have
a great day. There will be another show tomorrow, and if you guys come back next week on Thursday,
there will be another Alpha Growth Prime update. Thank you so much. Have a good day, guys. Bye bye.
Remember, if the juice is not worth the squeeze, good lord, no, we weren't saying that again.
