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Cardano Over Coffee ☕️ w/ guests from @GameChangerOk sorry x is blinky
Recorded: Sept. 3, 2026 Duration: 2:22:01Space Recording
Full Transcription
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
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Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
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oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
You guys, my Twitter looks weird.
Chad, request speaker. Dude, X is giving me a like tutorial of how to run spaces right now.
Oh my God. Mine's being like weird and blinky. That makes any fucking sense. Yeah, broken.
I guess they had to reset the whole system after the hacks on Tuesday. I don't know.
I so like every time I go and click on who's in the space, it blinks before I can invite anybody.
Quasar, I approved you. So fucking weird! Oh my god, Twitter. What's up, Kavi?
Quizz, are you there? So it was kind of nice not having Twitter for two days.
I just didn't really do anything, and every time I would turn it on, I was like, "Oh shit,
I'm the cup," and I would like like three things and be like, "Oh my god!
" And then I would back out. That's funny. I don't even think I have it signed in on my phone.
I should probably fix that. And then, like the messages, like the DMs are all screwed up.
So I was just like, "Oh no, I don't even know what to do." That's why I didn't even message
for two days. I was just like, "Well, if it's not even showing me putting messages here,
what's gonna happen?" That's fucking weird. Let's see.
Seriously, it keeps blinking. If that makes any sense to anybody,
this is gonna be an interesting show. Can I change it so anyone can speak? Yeah, everybody
except Quasar. You are Quasar. Yeah, everybody but Quasar. I think I think Adriana's having issues
with Game Changer as well. But yeah, so it's weird. Last night I couldn't join just straight
on Twitter, but if I DM'd the space to myself, I could join it in that link.
Like that's that's some bizarre stuff, right? That is weird. All right,
I think I actually changed it so that anybody joining can choose if they want to speak.
The settings say I changed it, but it's going to be an fu Twitter kind of day.
I can't even see the guests half the time. So yes, so if anybody wants to speak, ask for speaker.
That seems to be the quickest way. That's what I got for you. Wait, hello, please.
Are you weren't hacked, right? You mean it was a hack? Oh, out of all those people who got
their accounts hacked on X. Yeah, you heard about that shit. It was insane. Believe it or believe it
or not, I did not hear about it. Um, I'm I'm hearing about it now. I just thought
Elon was messing with Android users. You are such a pain in my ass. No, Android users are awesome.
I agree. No, I have an Android, and like it's. You know, I couldn't get the spaces at all for
like two days, and I had a like a whole freakout on against the system. And then,
and then the way they improved it, I'm like, wow, this is very nice. Yeah, but it's still janky. Um,
I saw a bunch of accounts. Somebody tried to access like a ton of like even Pragma,
Amaro stuff like that. People were getting all these resets, password resets sent to their emails.
It was wild. That's what I got. I got like eight of them Tuesday morning, and then like halfway,
or no, like all the way through the show. It was like the last ten minutes,
and I'm like sitting there listening to Lido, and I forget who else was talking,
and I'm like checking my email, and I was like, oh shit, somebody tried to hack my X,
and I went in to like the security settings where like list all the instances of who all's logged in
on there right now. Yeah. And there were like some crazy ones, so I was like, oh shit.
So I just started like logging out of all of them, and then as soon as I went out of that menu,
boom, it just backed me out, and I couldn't log back in. I was like, fuck. Oh wow. Well,
you might have deleted one of your sessions, like the one you were actively using. Oh yeah,
most definitely, because I put close all sessions. Well, that's why it kicked you out.
You kicked everyone out. But I kicked them out before they were able to hack me
or like post some shit or anything. What is up, game changer? Guys, can you hear me now,
or is it still buggy? Oh, thanks, God. My screen, my like the the X space widget
or component here on X is blinking every second. It's a nightmare. Same. Same. How are you,
Christina? How are you? I am good. I am good. Other than like you know using X. Nice,
nice hitting you again. I I don't remember if you were on on these years. Yeah,
Builder Fest on on Argentina or the last time I saw you. No, that was my Builder Fest.
Would have been my husband, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So if you were there,
the last time I saw you was on 2024. Yeah. It's it's been a hot minute. Long time. How are you, Q?
Good. Thanks, Q. By the way, for for scheduling the the space and of course, of course. Well,
we're just gonna banter for a while and give people a little bit of time to join,
decide if they can deal with Twitter blinking. Cause if it's doing it for all you guys,
I guess everybody's having that kind of experience today. Blinking. This is maybe this has something
to do with ring lights. Ah ha ha! You leave me out of this. Right now, right now. Hey,
it's not blinking at all for me. It's it's working quite great. I'm I'm on my mobile.
With the Quasar account, and I have the hard fork connected, going through the car radio
with my mother-in-law in the seat beside me. Say hi. Hi. In Disney, she she did nineteen thousand
steps in two days at the new Universal Epic in Disney, and I'm on I four, you know, on two different
Twitter Spaces, two phones driving. We're cool. No blinking. That's like. I'm pulling all the energy
or power from y'all's devices, so mine's not acting up. Thanks, Elon. Maybe. Maybe.
So we're all gonna blame you. All right, got it. I think we can use this blinking like to share
some subliminal, subliminal messages to the audience or something. It's weird. Is that what it is?
I am thinking weird things while I watch the screen blinking. I don't know. I just,
I can't with Twitter. Like, we use it, but we all know it's the most unprofessional thing.
Twitter's the worst. It is. It is. Like most centralization stuff, centralized stuff is yeah.
It's popularity and convenience kills kills the green. We have to fight back every way
how however however we can. But I mean, if it's not Twitter, it's GitHub, right?
One of those always giving me trouble. Yes, there's nothing worse than seeing that angry unicorn.
You're like, this is not going to be a good day. But at least imagine the day we won't be seeing
the even the unicorn. That's even creepier. So at least the unicorn says, "Okay,
we are still trying to figure figure out how to fix the world. Maybe that's okay.
Maybe somebody else wants to deal with the unicorn.
It seems fine." What is up, Epoch? Is your Twitter blinking?
Are you able to click the mute button?
There, there is no epoch on Twitter. Got it. Um, let's see. Tap tools. I told you, Quasar.
I wanted to talk about tap tools. I mean, we should talk about the goat, or the goats in the room.
This room is full of a bunch of two-horned unicorns, and tap tools ain't one of them. But yeah,
it's hard. It's hard talking about it. You are a nut. The goats are adorable,
so we're just gonna leave that alone. And goats are not hard to catch with a dog leash, evidently,
and they even walk fine. I didn't know that. But Tap Tools, I thought their post was a little wild.
They didn't expect the the pushback, and then they do this other post saying we got this one wrong.
Because people were like, "What? You're just coming back?" And he did some kind of post
talking about how he's not a dev and he's just trying, and didn't expect the community to hate
the the comeback. Chad, what do you think, dude? Sell it. Someone competent. I don't know.
I haven't had Twitter the last couple of days. Tap Tools is back. Well,
they did a post saying they were back, and evidently. Yeah, literally on September first,
they did a post that said we're back here. I will. Oh, and it was vibe coded slop. What was that,
Chris? With an NFT sale. With an NFT sale. That's pretty much the. That had no utility whatsoever.
He summed that up pretty well, actually. Okay, I shared it up to the top.
If you're able to click it in one of the blinks, literally a post that just said we're back,
and then. It talks about some. They did another post that says some endings aren't really endings,
and they talk about how this is phase one. And then they did a Twitter Space later that same day.
And then also later that same day, they did a post saying we got this wrong.
We believe the sale could be a way for the community to support an attempt at bringing tap tools
back, but we misread the moment, the sentiment, and how it would be received.
And that everyone who has participated has been refunded in full. It was a wild day.
It all happened in one fucking day, dude. That's insanity. But the one day part blew my mind.
It's it's always something, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely insanity. You know what, though?
I said I wanted to praise SPOs because SPOs came together. Well, lots of reasons,
but here's one of them. The SPOs did manage to come together and. Vote for the CC ratification,
whatever the new the new three people, because we had three seats expiring on the first,
and we needed over fifty one percent for SPO voting, and it was really low, to like the wire man,
like a couple days before it was at twenty six, and then it went up to thirty six,
and then it was kind of hovering, and then it was like it got to forty, and it was hovering,
and just. Enough people, enough SPOs cared enough to bust out their keys and vote,
and I want to give props to that because I am not an SPO, but I do know that it sucks to have to
all the effort that they have to do to vote, unlike a DREP. So, and also the cold keys aspect makes
it difficult; they can't just vote while they're traveling or anything. So,
to have everybody come together at the last minute was a big deal because otherwise,
the we wouldn't have enough people to vote on the constitutional committee, and without that,
we wouldn't be able to. Do any treasury actions, any other governance actions, parameter changes,
hard fork, even—I mean, kind of a big fucking deal, right? Dike shows around the corner. So,
to all the SPOs that voted, I just super appreciate it because I know it was
a pain in the ass, and I know they were all harassed at the last minute. All of you guys, thank
you. That was my SPO praise. That, and I mean, you know, let's give them props because they keep
the blockchain running, but. That should be every day. You guys are awesome.
Look at Coffee down there. He knows I'm right. But yeah, that one was close, Chad.
I don't know if you had heard about that one as well. Yeah, yeah, it passed. Yeah, before
September first or whatever. Yeah, I was here that day. Yeah. Um. On let's see,
DRep Talk posted that there were 42 governance actions
concluded in the last 90 days. That's a lot, dude. No wonder everybody was a little burned out.
There'll be more. B will be waking us up. My Twitter is so so weird. Hey,
forty forty two is a good number though. That's that's the answer to to life, everything,
the universe. So, here's to the next forty two. It'd be cool if it was seventy three.
That's the number of epochs in a year, if y'all didn't know. But if I could ask,
I am driving on Bluetooth. Can you hear me okay, or do I should I pull over?
We're getting some background noise, but you're coming in all right. Hello, hello, hello.
Oh no, what happened? No, you're good. Hey, thank you. I'd like to say that I can't,
I can't hear Mosy, and I know he's talking. He's saying something. That kind of makes me nervous.
Hey, John, can you hear anybody, or anybody hear me? Yeah, we we hear you too. Please try safe,
please, friend. Oh, I'm I'm using Waymo.
I'm hands free. It's all autonomous. Let Let's start praying.
Waymo, huh? Yeah, they they they're in Tampa now and Orlando, but I'm seeing them everywhere. Cause,
thank God, I I'll be going places. Waymo, yo, people drive crazy
as shit in Florida. That'd be like the last place I'd drive. I'd ride an automated car.
Like my experience with Florida was, everybody was doing eighty miles per hour the whole time. Yeah,
yeah, it is bad. It's it's nice right now because traffic's not too bad.
I do have an angry passenger just being a pain. But man, you want to
you want to take you know put your life in other people's hands? Driving Florida during rush hour.
Okay. Looks like I've found on this one, but not that one. I think it's because there is so many
like racetracks in Florida that everybody just thinks that they're racing all the time or something.
I am not sure, but I swear every second that I was driving, from the second I crossed the state line
all the way to Orlando and all the way back, it was fucking chaos. When was the last time
you were here? It was like a month before COVID, so twenty twenty. Okay, so yeah,
it's like nineteen point three times worse now, and it has nothing to do with racetracks. Man,
the population has grown. You know, they said, "Here's an infrastructure story for you, people.
We're going to increase the population by five. We're going to build subdivisions everywhere out
in the middle of cow pastures that have, you know, basically a converted wagon trail as your road,
and it'll be fine. People will be able to get to work, no problem. So we no investing
in the infrastructure, the roads. Traffic's horrible, horrible if you live out in the suburbs.
Which I don't know if you guys know about the suburbs. They're pretty great.
" Can never get out of them, and yeah, traffic's bad,
man. It is worse. You can get out of them. You just move.
That's the thing. There's so many roundabouts. Every time I try to move,
I just like keep going in circles, one roundabout to another roundabout.
I don't know how we adopted roundabouts as the as the intersection of choice,
but I have learned that some people call them rotaries, which is cool. I like the word rotary.
I think they're the intersection of choice because everybody just goes anyways.
Nobody wants to stop. Right. Give me a two or three lane roundabout. Watch out, man.
I'm I'm making all the lights flash. Dude, Arizona putting a whole mess
of those three lane roundabouts. It's crazy. Crazy business. We have them around here.
They're not a big deal unless you're a semi truck. Then that can be hard.
The American mind cannot comprehend roundabouts or rotaries. It's just—it's not in there for us.
We're cool just rolling through a stop sign,
but you put a roundabout and no stop sign, we're like, oh, this is suspicious.
For real, like how many times do I have to stop or yield going around this thing? It's insane.
You—you don't. You just turn off, unless there's shit coming. I don't know.
Maybe I just live in the middle of nowhere. Ours aren't like heavily trafficked.
It's they're pretty easy. Don't hit the other car. All right, deal.
Oh yeah, it's crazy business when they put them like in a city of like fifty thousand people,
and it's like three lanes wide, and it's like every intersection in town is that,
and people are just flying through those things. It's crazy. Yeah. Trying to go three wide
through a roundabout with other people
and stay straight on the exit—it's it's madness. In the semi? Nah, fuck that.
All right. And people say, "Oh, it's better." You just like you don't have to come to a stop
at the traffic light. Like fuck it, I'd rather stop at the traffic light than go three wide
with some soccer mom. So many people just run the damn lights anyway. So I get the effort.
But anyways, let's go ahead and let's go and just start talking game changer. You guys around?
Ah yes yes of course. Hi. Okay, so well, thank you, thank you for the for the opportunity, Christina
and everybody. It's it's great to be here. Well, I would say let's start off with tell us
about the person behind the Game Changer account, and then a little bit about what Game Changer is,
and then we'll head into our topics. Sound good? Yeah, perfect. Okay,
so first I want to clarify that, or ask if anybody listens weirdly to me because my my ex
is misbehaving. It keeps blinking. Everybody is blinking, but I can still hear you. Okay, perfect.
I missed, for example, every emoji. I cannot watch emojis or something,
so it's half the experience for me today. Okay. So, so my name is Adriano Fiorentino.
I am the founder and solo developer of Gamechanger Wallet, and yeah, since 2021,
it has been a long journey, creating and maintaining the the wallet and all that tooling around
the wallet. Long story short, I'm a full stack developer. I was dreaming to jump into Web3.
I was very closely tempted before 2021 to build on Ethereum. I was doing some incursions on Bitcoin,
but some yeah, not ideal experiences on Ethereum made me look for something better. So
once I understood it, like the fundamentals and the principles behind Cardano.
It was a no-brainer for me, and I jumped into the the ecosystem in this those very early days.
There was not a wallet back then, so the challenge was to, I mean, not a community wallet, sorry.
That that could have, for example, connectivity with DeApps. So yeah, basically that was
the the the huge challenge back then to find a way to connect Cardano to DeApps,
and Long story short, this is why GameChanger is different to most CIP30 wallets, you know,
because while Alessandro was building Nami, and the CIP30 standard was was having it first implement
practical implementation, right? I was building practically at the same time GameChanger based on
some successful Web2 technologies that. Were used and are still used on
most successful web2 wallets, right? Namely, URLs, URLs, and and URL redirection, QR codes,
and that kind of integration for Cardano. That's that's the. That's where that's where it came from.
All right. And as far as the team behind Game Changer, you are the team behind Game Changer, right?
Christina, are you talking? Yes. Can you hear me at all? Yeah, Adriana. She said,
"As far as the team behind Game Changer, you are the team. It is a one man show." Okay,
I think
that's the case. I will try to move to my smartphone. Please wait me less than a minute. I will be.
While he while he's doing that, I can answer it a little bit if that's okay. Yeah. Which?
Where do you want to go? Do you want to talk a little bit about Dion Stew,
or do you want to talk about the the incentives, the community rewards? Um. Actually,
I was just going to say, you know, who the who the team is. You know, we've had Martin in
in Amsterdam. You know, he's been he's been he found Game Changer and started building on it
because he's in the the hardware side of of our ecosystem, and he's built like a PayPad
and a Totems, some some things to to put out in the real world. That was his first proposal,
and then you know, I'm I'm part of the team, but you know, volunteer evangelist type.
Role at this at this time, and for a lot of the time. But yeah, I think Adriano's back,
so he can he he can tell more about his secret team. All right, sure. Can you hear us? Ah,
can you hear me properly, or should I change to a better mic? Ah, your mic sounds great.
You sound great. Oh, thanks God! Yeah, the the missing part was the five year
collaboration of great souls like Quasar, Martin, Javi, Roberto, Roberto Morano, Javi Rivo, Radio,
and and many many other souls. Max, Max, our friend that is not still here, is not here anymore,
and Gabriel, for example, from ERP Radio, pseudo scientist. So yeah, that that was the missing part.
Sorry. I wanted to share that without them, yeah, definitely we wouldn't be here. So thank you,
thank you guys. Appreciate that. Awesome. Okay, let's see. Do you want to start talking about
neon soup? Would that be a good starting point? If I can, let me do a little a little segue here,
real quick, if that's all right. Because no, no, wait, wait. A segue into what?
I'm the man of question. He can say yes or no. Oh yeah, go for it. Yes. Perfect. So,
what I would like is if you can explain what Neon Soup is in plain English
and what problem it's trying to solve for Cardano. Okay. So, in plain English, Neon Soup is a Dex,
is the centralized exchange that is based on the. Okay, more more plain plain English.
I'm not going to be technical. It's a P2P. It's a P2P experience for DeFi on Cardano.
That that's the the plain English description. Why P two P? What what you would care? Basically,
Cardano the peer to peer. So this is this is how you're connecting these people.
Is you're going to be that connection between everybody? That that that's was what I was saying.
That the the the entity that connects actually peers is Cardano layer one itself.
So that's the beauty of the protocol behind Neon Soup. That's why it's peer to peer because it's not
it's not an exact one hundred percent peer to peer experience like you have to like find a match
a matching peer to do something no no no it's just that liquidity liquidity is traded with
an actual peer to peer communication channel if I can say and that channel is Cardano itself
and why it matters. Because by leveraging on Cardano itself, and not leveraging too much on,
for example, systems that only we can run, that's the way that you can maintain the system
in a peer-to-peer way. Because the most important and critical infrastructure you need
is Cardano itself. So for those who knows, it's a bachelorless dex on Cardano, basically. All right.
Let's see. I'm trying to think how to break this down. All right, what is? How about this?
Tell us what the users actually doing differently than they would in a normal wallet or decks. Okay,
um, mainly or basically, uh, almost nothing. That that's the goal to to to try to uh fill
all the missing gaps between or all the the differences between the technology
and the UX to just offer you a a more popular or common user experience.
But if if we can dig dig a bit deeper, it's quite different underneath
because everything is happening differently, very very differently for in comparison to what
you already know. For example, I will name just a few things, and then we can dive deeper.
But transactions, for example, are not made by any back end, and even are not made on our
on the front end. On off neon soup. Transactions are made on your wallet, on your device,
whatever that's it that's that is mobile or desktop. And basically, keep this in mind:
whomever builds the transaction has power, because that that's the truth. Of course,
if you if you hold the keys of your wallet, that's like the ultimate power,
but the power to just say yes or no. But the power to say yes, no, but actually have a saying
on the protocol, have a saying on the transactions, on on the design of the transactions,
is for those who build transactions, and that's the key difference that turns Neon Soup
in a user-centric text that empowers users above even. Neon Soup, Frontend. I have a question. Well,
so I guess the key difference is that Neon Soup is suggesting the trade, and Game Changer
builds the transaction locally on the user's device. But help us understand for users
why that should matter to them. Perfectly. Okay, that's that's exactly the point, Christina.
It's exactly how it works. This suggestion is called Intent. It's an intent-based DApp or protocol.
So, why it matters? It matters for a lot of things. For example,
how many times have you experienced problems with your UTXOs, collaterals, or UTXOs on your wallets?
How many times have you been missing some UTXOs or having like huge, huge UTXOs full of assets
that then prevents you to properly use either the wallet or either any other app?
That that's one of the one of the reasons, right? One. Because that happens because once again,
whomever builds the transaction has power over you, and that's something that if if you care about
Web3 and and Cipher Bank values and etc. Those are the kind of things that we were supposed to
you know to to to try to to fight to fight against you know. No, I get it.
What you're saying is the value is control and failure risk, basically. Yeah,
one of the things exactly is is about failures, about bugs. Usually, if I will be a bit technical
here, but most of you may get this very very clearly because of the the experience you have with
Cardano already. But usually, this is what happens. Usually, the apps, either the apps
or or backends or third party systems, builds transactions in your behalf.
The only single thing missing there on a on a on a placeholder that this raw transactions has is
the the place for the signators, right? The signators that are coming from our private keys,
our wallets, private keys. So, but what happens here? That the only thing you can say is yes or no.
I sign or I do not. I don't sign a transaction. That's all the the power we have.
But the design of the UTXOs, right? The inputs of the transactions, and especially. The outputs,
how the outputs are, for example, the change outputs are going back to our wallets.
That simple thing that seems like super trivial and not important really can cripple our experiences
on Cardano. I will tell you why. Because the more we advance in time,
the more we will be shifting into multi-transaction or in bulk transaction experiences. Because,
for example, Neon Soup works this way. We have a file system on chain that works this way on
Game Changer. For example, Gravity Dex aims to do the same. So the future is there.
We already have these features, but why we have it? Why we have them? Because Game Changer,
for example, because it's not delegating the building of the transactions,
is allowing you to have a healthy UTXO set. So most of the times. You will have
enough UTXOs to just deal with this kind of multi-transaction experiences, like to work in parallel,
right, with multiple transactions. And last thing, why it matters? For example, here on aDEX,
because guess what? If there is no butcher anymore, there is nobody organizing, orchestrating.
It means that your wallet or you have to take care of that, of the task of like routing.
Or batching, or caring for utexos that can be consumed, right?
And that's where this matters a lot because we have this thing called utexo contention, right?
Yeah, basically that. I mean, we can mention more. Cypherpunk reasons, but to keep things practical,
we can mention those. If anybody has a question at any point, you are welcome to raise a hand.
I have set it so that you can decide if you want to be a speaker
because Twitter is acting all weird. Please feel free to come up or request speaker
if you're having trouble. But I haven't seen any questions, so I was just pausing for a minute.
That's all. Quasar, did you want to talk a little bit about this as well? I know you're gung ho.
Maybe driving in Florida. Yeah, I'm in central, in the middle of the cow pasture,
like middle of Florida. So I did want to talk about it, but maybe get some questions.
Or I really wanted to see, or see if Adriana would talk about how he learned about
the Pizza Pi Hackathon and how he built Neon Soup based on the Pizza Pi Hackathon
and what makes it different from a normal hackathon.
Which is yeah, I hope that would be cool. Tell us about it, sir.
Okay, that's that's a great one, Q. So I was going to build these decks either way.
I promised Rusty, the creator of the P2P DeFi kernel, back in 2025, that we were going to help him.
So it was a plan. But suddenly I heard about this piece of pie hackathon from from Imbalabs.
It was a great idea, since the I mean I fell in love with the with the spirit of the hackathon
because for the first time I was hearing hackathon that was not um what was not driven by
competition. Right, it was almost almost a collaborative hackathon where competition was not
the key, but the key was to just come and build in public, and share your experiences,
ask for community feedback, and I I I found it. I mean, I found on the on this hackathon
the perfect environment for just building these decks. So yes, the decks started on this
on this hackathon, and was really a great experience. Shout out to to Newman and Harsha.
And Gimbalabs for this great idea. I love that. I love the team at Gimbalabs. So, I mean,
this is great. This was not something that was built in private and then launched.
It was developed in public. You know, through this process, weekly, weekly progress,
feedback, and yeah, I love that. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, thank you, and and yeah. And by the way, it's fully open source. That that's another key.
Do you think? Ah, okay, okay. Yes, and this is very important. And we can dive deeper
if you want later, but keep this in mind. It's open source, but it's designed
for anybody to just fork it and deploy it in less amount of effort possible.
I can I can dive deeper into the reasons, but that's that's always the logic
behind almost everything we try to do. I mean, you're talking to an open source advocate,
so I'm completely with you. There are A thousand reasons to use open source,
and I love that you guys are, you know, making all this public for others to build off of.
That's freaking fabulous. How was your Gimbal Labs experience with the Pizza Pie Hackathon? I mean,
how how did that process go for you? You know, being a a developer. Well, it was great.
As as the guys know, Harshan Newman. They know the only thing I regret. Was
because I I am yeah I'm all the time overwhelmed with a lot of duties maintaining the wallet
the tooling, the backend. So the only thing I regret was not having enough time to to to get
more involved into the feedback pie. You had like pies, these pies were like paths
you could take during the the hackathon, and like the concept is everybody wins, not just the top.
I don't know three best. Projects. No, the amount of the rewards were splitted evenly
into the participants, and there was like a feedback pie where you were incentivized
to give feedback to other builders. That was beautiful, and yes, I I needed like one more week to be
able to to participate in the feedback pie. That's the only thing I regret. Everything else, Newman
and Harsha were really great organizers, and the other builders. Yeah,
it was it was a very good experience for me. And I will totally, you know,
participate in a in a in an iteration, right? Totally. I love that, and I mean, I love the team at
Gamble Labs; they're fabulous. Is there anything else that you want to share about Neon Soup
before we talk a little bit about the rewards program? Right on the phone. Hold on, hey,
if I could add, I'm. Kristen, I don't know if you can share that link or put in comments. I can't,
but another season of the Gemba Labs, you know, piece of pie hackathon
is going to be launching soon. There's a link where people can sign up and participate if they want.
Part of it's going to be things around Ada Lovelace and Cardano lore, and and building on
game changers. So there's a couple of different pies or slices of pies.
So more to come. I'll follow up with you on that, but I appreciate you.
That's that's huge, Q. I'm happy that we finally managed to to do something
for the famous Ada Lovelace Day. You loved that concept, and I'm yeah,
I'm I'm very excited to see what is going what is going to happen in these upcoming months. Awesome.
By the way, I am having some connection issues. I don't know if it's me or X,
but apologize if I am overlapping. I have some.
More stuff to tell about neon soup. At least I will name the titles, if I may. I have a few issues
too. Okay, I I think I'm missing Christina. No, I I was having a few issues with sound again.
And I just switched to another device. So and like Quasar had suggested earlier,
the mobile doesn't seem to be blinking. So it seemed to just be on my computer.
I'm out in the middle of nowhere. Like honestly, I we should be doing
an Android mobile Twitter Space commercial. If I were doing the same thing that Quasar is doing,
but on Argentina while driving, guys, even Morse code wouldn't reach to you. So yeah,
that's a great connectivity you have there. Okay, I I will I will be quick. Um, regarding Neon Soup,
um, please, sure, sure. If you if you can go to Neon Soup. Dot Trade. Um,
there you have all the information. You have the app to try it right now, on pre production testnet,
and for pioneers, and for alpha testers, uh, it's on mainnet. So of course, be careful on mainnet.
We are still developing developing this, but it's on mainnet already. Probably most focused
on people trying, for example, to fork it and to adapt it for, you know, particular local businesses
or local market. You are seeing people build off of it. That's awesome. It's it's meant for that.
I really would love to talk more about all those aspects, but it's really meant
for people to take over as much as possible. Even to bypass us as a frontend,
we we are not looking for gatekeeping in that regard. The idea is, I mean, there are
huge things to tell. I'm going to name a few, but one of the most important things here, once again,
is what you named, Christina. These suggestions, like the app suggests, this is called intent,
and and I mean, you can name this as an intent-based app, and this matters a lot
because you will literally see. An experience that every single action that you
that you trigger that triggers the wallet or launches the wallet on the Dex is not just
only a button running some code on the frontend. Is actually a link. Is actually a URL that contains
the entire intent and that you can literally reuse to eject the frontend.
So we are giving you all the tools, not only the source code. To create the the transactions,
I mean the the suggestion for building the transactions and all the interactions with the protocol,
we are literally giving you the baked and final intents from the actions you have just preset
on the UI for you to take over, for you to just fork, reuse, redeploy, or even modify. This is huge.
Game changer. The apps are the only the apps that will always empower you by design. By this,
the open design of Game Changer Wallet that will empower you to not only sign, you know,
or reject transactions, but also to modify them and to take over and to fork. This is why
Game Changer is fostering open DApp ecosystems. It's it's not smoke. We are not selling smoke.
If you check and you do your own research, you will find out that we are fostering open DApps.
How many times? On Cardano, we have experiences. We have experience, for example, protocols that are
or shutting down accidentally, or having I don't know some sort of closed tech
that is not released yet, and then people is forced to do like inverse engineering to figure out
how to, for example, build the option part, or how to I don't know came up to to the point
they can just create a clone or a fork of the UI. Okay, with Game Changer, that's covered
because by design. Every single intent from the DApps are open and are inspectable, auditable,
and forkable. So, of course, Neon Soup leverages on that, and that adds to the open source question
you had, Christina, because basically it's not just open source, and this is huge if you think about
it. This is a level of open source that that combines the deployment with the storage of the code.
So it's not just the code on GitHub and the deployment. Pray, God, that that the deployment. Well,
I can tell this is something you're passionate about, but I want to also give you time to talk about
the rewards program that you you wanted to mention too. Do you have a little bit of time
to talk about that? Yeah, thank you, thank you. I go off the runges. Yes, a little bit,
but it's your passion, and I appreciate that. I truly get the passion. Yeah, don't no worries.
I I get you. Um, so community reward program. What is it? It's a way to contribute to
the active members of Cardano community, especially on times where, yeah, because of the bear
and because, for example, well, now we have a new iteration of Catalyst, but even it has shifted,
and it has been a long time. So we need to somehow care for the community,
and we decided to share any opportunity of revenue that we could have, also with the community.
So for, I mean, this this program basically is inviting. Active community members that can,
for example, share links to the apps or to the wallet itself. So that's one,
like a typical URL referer program. The same referer program can be used on DApps. So
if you have a DApp and you integrate Gamechanger Wallet, you can participate as a refer,
and that means that part of the revenue of our wallet is going to be incentivizing you
to keep building and to grow and to, you know, keep kind of I know working.
And the the most beautiful part of the program is that and and probably what we like more
about the program is that we are incentivizing API providers. We we work with Blockfrost
and we work with Cardano GraphQL Mark II. We have a rebuild from scratch of the legacy
Cardano GraphQL API. For performance and other good things, and the two services, for example,
we are using and we are providing on on a project called Dandelion Light. Okay, if you deploy those
and you participate on on on on the basic like protocol or a spec that you have to follow
to participate, sharing your APIs, you can be incentivized and you will be earning these rewards
as well. And I will summarize how how this works. Rewards are paid from transaction activity.
Exactly, that's the beauty of Gamechanger and and and the way we work,
because transactions are suggested by the apps and are not exactly built and sealed from the apps
and from you know systems outside the wallet. It means that we can take care
for the infrastructure providers and for the community. So this means that imagine Neon Soup.
Neon Soup suggests a transaction to the wallet, but who is providing Neon Soup?
And the wallet for its APIs. Okay, that community member that is hosting these APIs,
that you are using their services as a Cardano user, that that member is going to get the reward
of the transactions that are being built on Game2Nerd wallet and suggested by an idea.
And that's how it works. I've got a question then. How are you preventing like spammy referrals
or fake adoption? The I mean. It's it. How would you describe? No, no, no. I won't understand.
What are you thinking? Like how that would happen? What's what's the scenario that
you think can happen? If people are going to benefit from the referrals, well, is
that a correct statement? But the the thing is that if somebody gets a referral,
it means that it has been onboarded on on Cardano or at least on Gamechanger ecosystem. Even
if it's somebody that is almost doing nothing, but if that person reaches out, or if you're telling,
if you're mentioning about the same person trying to avoid the the same person
trying to avoid paying others, that that's not even 100% efficient, because if you check
how the algorithm works works for the payments, that person is not going to win all the time
the the the slot for being eligible for the payment. Right. So that's not for this person
to manage to do that. He may have also to deploy a note on his own or to fake a note. I mean,
and even even if that happens, yeah, it's going to happen for him and his interactions with Cardano.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's okay if somebody wants to be extra smart. I'm just here to ask questions.
You got a question? I heard super smart, so I came up. Good lord! Not great question. So,
can I ask you any question about a or for our guest game changer, either about their new neon soup
or their rewards program? No, I'm coming in hot, just off arguing with my
seven year old over water balloons five minutes before school. So I'm gonna just shut up now and say
good morning. Won the argument? No, no, no. I have questions now. Who won that argument?
There's no winning. There's no winning. It's a lose lose. She yelled at me. I yelled at her.
She then got sad and laid in the driveway on the concrete. So she didn't have water balloons ready.
Got it. Okay. No, she got the water balloons ready. It's just that it's like five minutes
before she's supposed to be at the school, and she's like, "Yeah, I totally thought
she was gonna pelt you with a water balloon." Well, yeah, I don't know. I would have.
That would have been more fun than what actually happened, which was like,
"Why is no one playing with me?" It's like maybe because we're all leaving. What do you mean?
I was hoping for a better water balloon story, but okay, okay, let's get back to our guest. Well,
well, I can tell you that my wife stepped in because obviously I wasn't doing it right,
so she came in. Sure enough, yep, got it. And she was like, "Fine, I'll play with you.
" And then she just picked up five balloons at a time and threw them like in rapid succession,
and used all the balloons in about fifteen seconds. And she's like, "Look, we're done. Let's leave.
" That's brutal. I thought that was worse. I was like, "That's so savage." But anyway,
you can judge who the better. Timeline. You can judge the better parent. No, no, no, no, no.
All right. So our guest is Game Changer, and they have a new neon soup decks,
and this is working very differently with transactions where everything's being done on your system.
We've also been talking about their rewards program, and and then you jumped in.
So I'm just gonna be like, does anybody else have any questions for Game Changer before I throw it
right back? Alright, Epoch just wanted to a grand announcement of his entrance. Let's move on.
Game changer. What would you like to leave us with, like a call to action? Okay, thank you,
thank you, Christina. So, call to action is do your own research and and get to understand
why everything we do tries to put you as a Cardano user in the middle or in the center
of everything, of every infrastructure, every system, every decision making. So,
try to do that first and understand. Then all the opportunities you have. To get involved
and get incentivized, to take control of protocols, and know that if one day something bad happens,
you can have the full source code and the full means to you know to take over and to
and to keep the flame alive. Get to know the spirit of everything we do has to do with that,
with those cyberpunk values. Understand that we are a very, very small team, so any help
and any adoption that you can help with, it's really going to change the game for us
and and ultimately for you as well. Because once again, we are sharing our any revenue that
we may produce with all of you. So call to action: get involved first with Cardano.
Never be a passive listener or actor. Just try to or build or contribute to Cardano somehow.
And second, if you can with us, I mean, we need a lot of help. As I said, I am the solo developer.
I have great souls collaborating, but more souls and more involvement, and at least to share, right?
To share the knowledge. We five years of building for you, tooling, and this huge wallet project
is yeah. It it can serve a bit more of outreach. So, call to action. Get involved
and and help us as much as you can. We will be always helpful. Grateful. Sorry. No, no, it's great.
You'll be grateful and helpful. Fabulous. I appreciate you coming. I appreciate you making time
to come share with us what you guys are working on, and also to invite the community.
You know to participate, both because you know they're able to actually work with this,
they can take this and build off of it. But you're also giving them some incentives there,
and that's always the right way to go in the ecosystem. But more props to you, Quasar.
I know there was something you wanted to bring up. Do you have time, or is the driving
the distraction? No, no, I think we're good, really. What I was going to bring up is, you know,
he built me on soup during the the pieceify hackathon that Gimbal Labs put on,
and there's another one starting, you know, in the next week or two. So it's a great time
to participate there and start building this whole circular economy where you know users,
app builders, and SPOs and effort providers can all all support one another and build together.
Awesome! I appreciate it. Thank you guys so much for coming out. Chad, are you still with me?
I'm still here. You want to give me a mid roll, sir? Absolutely. Thank you for tuning into
Cardano Over Coffee. This is your decentralized morning show, coming to you Monday through Friday,
9:30 Eastern Standard Time, 2:30 UTC. We just got done chatted up with Game Changer.
What an amazing thing they're building! And if you are building something amazing on the blockchain,
we want to hear about it, just like we heard from them. So click the cup, go on our kindly link.
Schedule yourself a spot for your business, and we'll talk about it live here on the show.
And that's the best part about Cardano over Coffee is it's a decentralized morning show,
so you can be part of the show as a listener. You can also be a host as a listener.
We're looking for hosts. We don't have anybody for the Wednesday spot currently.
And if you have a passion for Cardano and or blockchain and like to ask businesses
about their business, then maybe you could be a host. Try out for that. Also.
We'd like to thank you for tuning in, and also like to remind people to get your funds off
of central exchanges, put them in your wallet that you have the seed phrase for,
and hopefully it's secure. And we'll just. You know that message used to have like more warm
and fuzzies behind it, Chad. The ending, your Roy killed it for us. The ending killed it.
It's like do all this work. It might be safe. Yeah, and maybe it fucking works. Maybe it doesn't.
Who knows? Did I just get hired as a co-host? Like that's what I heard. No, no.
What we said is that we are interviewing co-host. It is not a guaranteed time slot, Quasar.
You gotta, you gotta like make us coffee and stuff first. We need an intern first.
I'll bring you me on soon. What's eleven times twelve, Quasar? It's not one hundred and forty-four.
See, not not qualified. Next. Oh goodness gracious! Epoch, what the hell are you up to today?
One thirty-two, bro. It's one thirty-two. No, no, you can't take that long to do it. Okay.
That was a pause for effect. I didn't take long. That was intentional. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Now you sound like my dad. I have, I have more disaster recovery today. Fun. Tell us. Yeah,
this week I'm doing a six week six week series of how your company can go down. And each week,
we take a a new problem, and I forcibly walk engineers through a made up scenario.
It's kind of like D and D. We have like moves that we can make, but you know,
you only have like what's available to you currently in a read-only capacity.
Do they get the little like characters? Can they like pick out the? I'm sorry, go on. No,
we're all remote. That would be hard. Okay, go on. Can I be a character?
You hire someone like Quasar. Quasar, you are a character. That's that's.
You need a dwarf rogue to watch the treasury. Did we lose Epoch? I don't know.
I don't hear anything. Does anybody hear Epoch? I don't, but I hear the dwarf.
Did the dwarf recover? Did the dwarf rogue take Epoch? He failed his saving throw from the
from the dwarf probe. That sounds like an awesome course.
Be cooler if you had little little statues of your your guys.
I I'm gonna assume we lost for epoch. It says he's a listener on my phone,
but I don't even know if my phone's right. Ah, some things never change. Still get rug.
So you're in a a wonderful course of telling people how not to fail. More like telling people
how they are failing, and then judging their response. And judging them—that's your favorite part,
isn't it? Well, now the first ground rule is no judgment, no judgment, except for by epoch.
Except for by me later with bourbon. Then all the judgment. Be like, dude, the guy today,
he just burned it all down. I love it. But yeah, other than that, things are busy on my end.
I'm just constantly working now. It's crazy, bear market my ass. Well, I mean, it's a good thing.
Last bear market, I was unemployed. No, less good thing. Yeah. Well, it's nice to have work.
It's nice for you to teach people how to fail, so they can try not to fail. Yep. Oh, all right.
What What do you got going on? Me? Um. Oh, so
Alpha Growth is going to start coming on the show regularly.
Oh yeah, says they. They said that. Um. Yeah. Yeah. So Yoda did a post last week, I think,
about his D rep council and how people can use that as a way to provide feedback to Alpha Growth.
And I I don't think they wanted it to be like limited to just the D reps.
So they're also talking individually to certain dexes, but they wanted to also have something open
to the community at large. So they chose Cardano over Coffee because somebody told them it was cool.
That might have been me. So they'll use our space every couple weeks as an opportunity to share
what they what they're up to, what progress is being made, what obstacles they're experiencing,
and let people ask questions. And you know, as long as it's a cool space,
we can keep hosting them every few weeks, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, do they have hosts,
or are we the hosts? We we're the hosts, and we're gonna we're gonna interrogate them. Man,
one thing one thing I really liked about Rare Evo was like we'd do these panels,
and sometimes people would show up and be like, "This is my host," and I'm like, "Oh,
this is awesome." I'm like, so I I have I have way less work to do. They're like, yeah, I got this.
I'm like, hell yeah, this is so cool. I mean, like they'll have their they'll have
their PR type people talking and stuff. Um, but if they if they make it,
you know that's the problem is getting them on the space. You know, you end up with the tour.
You end up with either the the poor tech guy who's burnt out, or or the poor marketing person
who's having to sell the entire vision to the entire Westray community. Well,
I guess I have a hidden advantage because if it doesn't work out well,
I can go back to the OG meeting and be like, "Hey, you got to send a better person." Right, right,
right. Please, please submit again. Yeah. What's up, Quasar? With the hand up. Hey,
I'd like to tell you about a new venture I am starting. It is Bring Your Own Host as a service.
If anybody would like to be a co-host, the Twitter of a pour on over coffee,
and they want to bring a host with the most, I'm it. Also, d rep as a service if you wish,
and that's it. B Y O H. I love it. Bho, Byo, tell me, Bbo, give me a disaster. Did you just say Bho?
Byo, yeah. All right, that doesn't sound. I don't know that sound. Byo. Byo.
I think B Y O H is the only way to say it. Well, so the constitutional committee thing went through.
We're all very appreciative of that. Epoch, I assume you voted as an SPO. I think we abstained.
Are you fucking kidding me? No, I'm brutally honest. What do you want me to say? Why?
Because the person with the keys was in India, and he didn't make it back in time
to override the always abstain. In case we missed something. Decentralized to me, Epon. Yeah. Yeah.
Good job. No confidence. No. How are you supposed to make old keys decentralized? Skeleton keys.
Get it? Yeah. Ah. Thank you, music. Uh huh. Is this somebody going to bring up the what is it?
Calendars. The yeah yeah no you didn't but I know what you meant Calidus Calidus that's
the one listen I've only had two cups of coffee today sir none of them had whiskey
I got to be tiptoe here in twelve minutes so no whiskey for me that sounds rough my afternoon is
a massage it'll be hard knock life a hard knuckle life because it's a deep tissue. Oh yeah, wah wah.
Man, I'm on fire. That was that was double bad. I was very quasar. Yeah. So, Epoch,
I saw the comment about SaaS. I'd like I'd like to consult with you if you offer SaaS coaching
or or desassing services. I need it. What? Adriano, what does SaaS mean to you? Hey, wait.
What does SaaS mean in this reference, guys? I think Sassy. SaaS, not software as super slick.
You know, you know something to say and just like a little touch of attitude. It's like sassy.
You don't need Epoch. You need his daughter. Oh, she's she's sassy. Yep. See,
just go straight for the source, no middleman. Yeah, I don't know. I don't even know
how to be sassy. I need to unsatisfy myself. I think. I mean, I would say you need to hang out
with like eight-year-old girls, but that sounds really creepy. So don't do that. Yeah, yeah,
don't do that. Oh, creepy Uncle Quasar. Yep, yep. Sorry, you can't go anywhere and be like, "Hey,
I want to work at a daycare," and they're like, "Why?" Because I want to hang out with
eight-year-old girls. No, I mean, look, look, look. I have an eight-year-old
boy who is very—he's not sassy. Very. Oh, he's sassy and handsome, and he goes to school
with a bunch of eight-year-old girls. So I am a gigolo at birthday parties. I don't know
how to take this inboxing me. That's not a sentence approved by the HR department. Somebody, HR,
yes, yes. I need a big HR shield. I can't, I can't mute him. But that's that's a mutant.
That's a mutant. Quasar just shows. Thank you, Quasar, for getting the. Just saying, I'm great with
eight year old girls. I don't want to hear this. Anybody, come up, talk. Hey, Musa, what's going on?
Yeah, yeah. Musa's the hand up. Musa's got his hand up. Sorry, Quasar. I see. I was going to talk.
Like I was like thinking of coming and joining the conversation. Yeah, GM, GM, everyone. What's up?
GM. What do we have on the table today? Well, we're not listening to Quasar.
We'd like to hear what you're up to today. Oh yeah. The biggest event is happening in Nigeria
called GTS, Nigerian edition. So yeah, and I have function with people talking about central,
couple of stuff, blockchain and the rest. Yeah. So it was actually nice, you know.
I had um I have to rush back because I was kind of feeling um you know unwell,
like I was having headache. I just have to rush back. Of course, man. Oh yeah,
so it's a good one today for me. Epoch sounds like a good day, dude. All I was saying was I'm good
with kids. No quasar, he doesn't ask for you. He's asking for epoch. Epoch, please come back.
Oh yeah, um I don't know. Um okay, maybe I will schedule a space for dad and daughter talk.
We'll have conversation to just you know, research regarding. What everybody is doing,
but personally, what are we doing? I want to like share. I want to share my next one month doing
and I've been doing before now. What I intend to do in a couple of months. Okay.
I'm just gonna do this place for example, because like constantly, I think I I'm thinking I'm going.
Oh, inside. Um, excuse me. Inside both members. Members. So yeah, it's epoch on this place.
Epon is up there, but sometimes he walks away for a moment. He may not be able to hit unmute. Yeah,
what do we have in the house? Well, are we cooking? What are we? What do we have?
What are we cooking? Cardano lunchtime dessert. Well, so we had Game Changer on earlier.
Game Changer was on earlier, talking about their new Neon Soup trade, and they're also talking about
the rewards program. And we've kind of drifted a little bit about different Cardano topics.
We're just staying away from Quasar's foot in his mouth. Oh, that's good.
I think I came across their page sometimes, but I was interested in knowing what they are doing,
what they do, and um, you know. Oh yeah, I was not have enough time to like um check out what
they are doing, but I'm pretty sure everybody coming to the Kaduna most, not everybody,
but at least most would come into the Kaduna space now. This period, actually, um,
intentional people trying to like build, solve some problem, one problem or the other.
Because this one, you know, the real jays people that stays now, actually, the real jays, right?
But it's not funny building at this point in time in any blockchain,
and precisely Kaduna blockchain, yeah. Yeah, we're all about the Cardano blockchain. Great quasar,
I see you with the hand up, sir. Awesome. Choose your topic carefully.
I'm actually going to be very serious here. Um, I pinned. Some things at the top. One is a,
a Epochs End space, very much like Cardonal over coffee. I I felt like Epochs End that space was
a institution, a a tradition within the community. I I don't want to host this thing forever.
I don't want to take it over. I'd love for us to find a way to collectively keep it going.
It it had a huge impact on my. Experience and my commitment to Cardano,
so I would love for you guys to you know swing by, say hello. Let's you know talk it over there.
We need ways to keep connected. You know, we'll lose, we'll slowly fall apart if we can't continue.
And Epoch X was a space where I felt a lot of people could connect. And then with that,
I want to say one cool thing about Game Changer, if I can. If you've built on,
if if you've built on Cardano, or if you've tried to build on Cardano,
you know that there's typically a lot of hardware requirements, a lot of learning, etc.
You can build with Game Changer from a tablet, from a Chromebook, you know,
from your phone if you are patient. But there's no real, you know, environment to set up other
than sit the fuck down, and pardon me. For the language, but sit down and open up a browser,
and that's the coolest thing about it. Especially with Testnet, you can just play and go with it.
I love it. That's it. Thank you. Yeah, awesome. Appreciate it. What is up, Simon? I want to say,
Chriser, just yet. I think it was the day before yesterday. Yeah, I talked to Lucas,
and he is trying to do the exactly like exactly the same thing. So you should talk to to him. Yeah.
Thank you. You guys can. We yeah, we've been chatting. We trade messages quite a bit. Oh, perfect!
Thank you, and great hearing from you, Seaman, and everybody else who's you know here, Mosi,
brother. Can't wait to hear your voice again. Yeah, man. Well, we we go.
Somebody else has a a slot tomorrow, Seaman. Do you wanna you wanna give us a Announcement
of an announcement. You want to tell us a little bit about your space tomorrow? Yeah, sure. I mean,
some of you might be aware that I've been putting forward a treasury withdrawal proposal
for government incentives, and I just want to, you know, keep the dialogue open, talk about it,
see if I should, you know, because resubmitting is work as well. Should I resubmit this?
Should I work on it, or is is the idea so fundamentally not interesting to the community that
I better just leave it be? Which is fine, you know. But then I don't. I don't want to do the work,
you know. So I really you don't want to do the work for nothing, right? Exactly. I hear you.
Exactly. And you you're looking for some community sentiment that people are like, yeah,
I agree with this. I support what he's working on. Right. Ideally, ideally. Heck yeah. I mean, yes,
that's obviously. But honestly, I'm I'm amazed that you're having trouble getting traction given
how whenever there's stuff to vote on, people are like, oh, we all need incentives.
Is Is this governance incentives? Does it is it apply for like voting on treasury proposals
and governance actions and stuff, or am I just ignorant? Okay, hot take.
I feel like these incentives are just an illusion. They're they're they're like the term limits
of politics, like like things that we all agree on. Term limit that never pass,
and it's just it's going to be like that for literally forever. Is is my is my thought?
Hot take city. Why do you think that is? Okay. I have no idea. Some human nature, game theory.
Actually, I think the point that you're making is the same point that Yuta is making.
He says it's probably because what it would need for that to happen is someone
who's like really lobbying for it and making a huge fuss about it. And my answer to that is,
I think it needs actually it needs a better solution. I think a lot of people just are not happy
with the solutions that we have. And I agree. Actually, I agree. That's why I proposed it because.
I think we need a better solution, and hopefully, with a better solution where the community
can have a voice in it as well, we can, you know, we can get the governance incentives
over the finish line. Real quick question for anybody who can't make it tomorrow:
where does the where can they read about the governance incentives framework you're talking about?
Is this something in Intersect, or is there somewhere else to direct them?
Do they go to your Twitter? No, it's it's on chain. You can already you can vote on it.
It's already basically hasn't passed already. And yeah, I'm just curious if I should give it
a second go. Oh snap! All right, let's see. Hey, hey, Simon, I applaud you for the work. I I read it
and I saw the request for feedback. I feel like you will have to get more more momentum on this one.
I think using the other action that was not approved is momentum because there was some confusion
there with the men pool cost and the the Plutus thing. And I'm going to point that all back towards.
Language in the Constitution that says things have to be reviewed. The community can come together
and say that it's time to review stuff. That's my two cents on some some strategy for it.
And and I'm I'm with you. So I've not read the rationale. Quaiser, are you saying
that the no rationale is typically around the community wanted more participation in it?
I don't think I'm. I don't think I'm saying that. I'm. I think I'm saying Simon
and anybody that wants to do this needs more participation in the proposal. We need more people.
You know, need a crowd to get something like this going. Oh yeah, you've got to get somebody.
Somebody helping you push it, I guess. I'm seeing a ton of no's, Simon. What are they wearing?
Why are people Why are people saying no? All right, wait. No, let me stop.
You have a space tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. Don't have to. So this is a this is a preview of what
the space will be like tomorrow. Everybody, come back tomorrow. Yeah, please to ask Simon
all the questions. Questions. Yeah. I'm looking forward to a discussion tomorrow. I'm looking good.
Good. Looking at you, Esco. You know, don't disappoint me here. Don't leave me hanging. Oh,
he's not here anymore, is he? Damn it! I mean, I don't know. Twitter's been weird. If it,
the Twitter on my computer keeps blinking. Um,
I've heard that was happening to a lot of other people. So who knows?
So Simon, what else is going on in your world? Um, what else? So yeah,
just had a civic committee meeting. We're gonna take a bigger role in the. You know,
in the 2030 vision, or more specifically in in the part about governance,
since that' what the committee is specialized in, and I think we have a lot of good people there.
And and also, I mean, especially for incentives, incentives is part of the 2030.
So I hope I can also help a little bit there. Maybe I don't know. You know,
it's also a bit of a problem with conflict of interest if I'm proposing something for the
for the incentives, yeah. But then also having a hand in the roadmap. Yeah,
I gotta be a bit careful there, but I I'm mindful of it. So yeah, don't worry too much. Makes sense.
And I mean, you were elected into that role, so people believe in you.
They believed in you enough to vote. Hopefully, let's see. It's it's a it's actually a lot of work,
and you know, just one more thing I want to say because um, there's a CPS I created over a year ago,
last year in February, and there's not one solution to that problem statement yet.
Of governance incentives, and then still getting, you know, all these no votes. It's a bit.
I don't know. Well, like, how are we getting there? It's hard. Well, let's see. Like,
are they providing rationale? Yes. Hey, is that uh uh see uh the the constitutional
or uh Cardano problem statement? That website. Does anybody have a link to that? Is that new? Um.
I don't have the answer.
Oh, okay. So you've got different types of rationale.
Yeah, definitely looking forward to your space. Then I don't know. I'll be able to catch all of it,
but I'll try to stop in for your part of the show and see what kind of community feedback
you can get. Yeah, if you don't, um, I'll try to come on here every week for the next, I don't know,
a few weeks until I decide to do it or or not. And if I do it, I'm gonna definitely come on.
Still come on, you know? Of course, because you want to come here and share with us,
and we want to hear all about it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's awesome.
Let's see what else is new. Trying to think. Yeah, went from constitutional comedy back
to the proposal, huh? Well, yeah, constit constitutional committee thing
that passing though definitely a lot of relief there. I did not want to have to deal with
governance halting. Yeah, we we talked about what the course of action is if it's not gonna pass,
and basically it was resubmitting because yeah, you you have two options: it's either resubmit
or no confidence. I'm like, wow, okay, that's really specific. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I mean,
people wanted it. Obviously, like there was maybe like one percent who voted no, if even.
But I mean, to be fair, it was the SPO vote that was really the obstacle. Right. And I don't,
I don't know that SPOs want to participate like participate like this.
I don't feel like they were really given an opportunity to say, "Yeah, this is this sounds great.
We want to be involved like this." Yeah, my you know my read on that is that they don't like this.
Still don't have the tools, right? They have to take out their keys and expose their keys again,
and I think this is really the problem. If we like when we have a solution to that,
I hope it's going to be much easier. It's going to be yeah, much more participation. But we'll see.
Yeah, I I definitely told our our stakeholder operator to. To vote, and if you want to delegate to
as the pool operator who votes on such things, delegate to Dred the stake pool, please.
I hope that was wrong. One more time. What was the stake pool? Dred. D R E D. Perfect. No,
personally, I've just been busy with dingo stuff. I made a new website. I'll share in a couple days,
probably, to make it easier to like track proposal stuff. Pragma's been staying busy.
Aiken needs some more assistance, so I've been talking with the Aiken team, and we will start. Well,
we've already started working on a treasury proposal to request additional funding to support Aiken
to make sure that it's going to be ready for Dykstra and everything. Which kind of seems like
a a thing we might want. Trying to think what else is really going on. Anybody feel free to jump in.
Chad, you Roger. Can I piggyback on what you were talking there? You just said maybe.
So the which one the need for Aiken and the Hard Fork, Dykstra or whatever we're going to call it.
Not only Aiken is Aiken going to need it, but who else in the community? What other teams
or groups are probably going to need some funding or are going to have work to do to be ready?
I really love to see a proposal that addresses the problem
and not one person's or one group's problem because it's everybody's.
I mean, I, I think that that is a very fair question, and everybody's going to have to do some level
of work. To what extent, I don't know. Right. It's going to depend
how it how it gets rolled out, right? Do we have a good firm path on that? Did
somebody like crickets from space? All I heard was crickets. You, if you literally heard crickets,
that would be interesting. No, I again. I think that's a fair question.
I don't think anybody has the answer yet, though. What was the question? Sorry, didn't catch it.
I was talking about like what kind of impact that Dykstra will have on all projects,
and I think until more information is released on you know requirements and stuff when it rolls out,
until we get that information, it's kind of hard to say. But the Dykstra rollout
is supposed to be what in December? That's what we're hoping for. So, so while we may not know,
we still know that what it will entail. We know it's going to affect everybody.
I think it's a good time to start having that conversation, or you know,
getting getting it circulating because it takes us a long time to decide on stuff.
Yeah, yeah, fair. Hey, has CF announced who their twenty picks were yet?
Anybody? Dealer. I didn't know they were redoing it. It's so hard to stay on top of everything.
They were picking. Um, they were picking like twenty candidates that they're going to send to
Singapore. I haven't heard anything of that. Not yet. Probably. I didn't know if they announced it.
But what about? I have a question to you, Christine. What about the Alpha, um, thing?
Alpha growth thing. Yeah, alpha growth. Can you be more specific? Like, um,
I saw you were gonna be on, uh, kind of like on a committee for for them. Yeah,
it's um called the operating group. Okay, so so what what is that about,
and and has anything happened now since they they've been approved? Um,
they are still negotiating with Intersect as the administrator how all that would work.
I think they've been waiting to hear back from Intersect for a while, and I don't know
if that was related to like waiting for monthly board meetings or whatnot.
But from the operating group perspective, we do meet regularly and we talk about different things.
From the proposal that needed to be ironed out in detail, like one of the ones
I'd mentioned earlier, was with regards to the DeFi Advisory Council. Alpha Growth committed to
making sure that the community could provide feedback. And there's a few different ways
that's playing out right now. Like they are meeting individually with a lot of DeFi DeFi apps,
DeFi programs, and stuff. They're also going to show up on the monthly DRep call that
I think is hosted from Yoda through DRep Council, and to make sure that everybody had access,
they're going to start coming on Cardano over coffee every couple weeks to you know share updates
on what's happening, where everything's at. What they're struggling with, any obstacles they have,
and open for questions if anybody has questions. So, but they haven't been able to do much
until they get
everything worked out with the administrator. So that's been a bit frustrating. It sounded.
Yeah, that sounds. What else you want to know? Yeah, no, I just, I mean, it was a huge thing, right?
I was just wondering if anything happened yet. It's a huge amount of money, dude. Right? Yeah,
I was when I saw the amount. I was like, whoa. But all right, if the community wants. Well,
and I also know there's a portion that goes into like incentives and stuff like that too,
and so I know that we get to on the operating group we get to vote on how that plays out as well.
They'll they'll submit that to us, so I'm really looking forward to finding out more about that.
But that's basically what the operating group is: is we are not the ones like doing all the research
and doing the tasks, but they bring it to us to vote whether we agree with what they want to do
or not, and you know they're bound to that, so. And then, with regards to the advisory council,
they don't have like a voting role or anything. So these DFI members meeting individually,
they're not voting on anything. The people that show up to the DREP monthly call
through DREP council, they're not voting on anything. It's just an opportunity to share
your feedback. And if if the general consensus from these calls and these conversations is
a direction that we choose not to go in, we will definitely provide rationale.
We're not going to just like blow off the community and be like, well, we disagree. End of story.
Yeah, it makes sense, of course. So, yeah, it'll be interesting. I'm not. I mean, to be honest,
I'm not that familiar with the whole DeFi dilemma. I hear people talk about it a lot, but I mean,
my naive mind is like is thinking that it should probably be, um, like a natural.
It should occur naturally. We don't have enough liquidity. That's a huge issue right now,
and you know, basic things like the the most simple conversation I can have with some people is
some people are still using like savings accounts, and then when they realize that they can get
more money through USDC on Coinbase, they go there and they put it up over there on Coinbase,
and for them, it feels less like crypto and more like something comfortable because it's
a stablecoin. And and they have that, and they're earning more money, and they're happy,
and that's great. But why does it have to be like Coinbase or Kraken?
Because we don't offer anything like that within our own ecosystem. We don't have the liquidity
to do anything. So we've got to start somewhere, right? Oh, and I'm definitely not a DeFi person.
I've been learning rapidly as we go because my experience just generally stays to my own trading.
Does anyone have a good resource for that? Anyone up here for what for DeFi? Yeah,
getting up to up to speed with the DeFi problem that Ferdano apparently has, because see,
also so many people agree with it. So I'm hesitant to say anything against,
or I wouldn't want to say anything against it because I'm not deep enough. A finance degree
and a computer science degree. There you go. Well, nice. It's gonna take a while.
It's like the worst of everything. Yeah, um, honestly, I learned so much just by being on this show,
um, because I would not know about all these different projects, about all the different dexes, um,
so I've been—it's like learning as I run, you know, the ground running. You just keep going.
What's up, Johnny? Hey, good morning, everybody. Good morning, Christina. So,
so there's something called Cardano Academy. It's real easy to look up,
and that that walks you through some basic DeFi and finance stuff. Goes through it,
and then it's kind of a cool interactive app that it emails you every once in a while to help
you keep up on your knowledge. Well, there you go. Isn't that by a CF? Yes, that's correct.
Thank you, CF, for the Cardano Academy. Quickly share your share your um your links,
Cardano ambassadors. I remember we were asked to do that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, if you do check it out, um, come give us a review. Let us know if you found it educational
and you actually walked away with new knowledge. All right, yeah, I'll do if I find some time
for sure. I'm interested. It's not like you're super easy. Sorry. It's it's not like super easy.
Like if if I went to do it right now, I'd probably get my butt kicked on the answers. It's in depth.
It's a very technical, and it does go through a broad spectrum to give you context
on different ecosystems, different you know between like EUTXO and accounts based models.
It's it's pretty pretty intense. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm pretty deep in the in the weeds,
but the DeFi thing. I don't quite get it yet, so yeah, so I'm very motivated to learn that.
Check it out. I mean, the big overall statement I would make with regards to DeFi is there's a lot
of DeFi happening all over the place, and not enough of it's happening on Cardano.
So we need to start attracting people to come do that shit here. Yeah, Phil said that.
I'm trying to make a a protocol for it.
I I got a really cool name. It's four DeFi. The number four and DeFi, and it's pretty neat.
What's up, James? How's it going? Hey, what's happening? I heard after you say DeFi three times,
I just show up. So I was gonna ask. Yeah, you don't have to cook your heels or anything. You know,
you just say DeFi, DeFi, DeFi, and boom. You know, it's like you know, I arrive. But I'm.
What's a good resource? Did you? Well, it it started from talking about alpha growth.
Did you hear that they're going to start coming on Cardano over coffee every couple weeks?
Which is a great thing, and it also just reflects as well as you know the post I made the other day
having to do with you know the report, what they're currently doing, how they're updating everybody,
making sure they're completely transparent. They're not waiting for people to ask the questions;
they're just offering the answers already as to what they're doing. So,
which is when people typically, when you run a business, it's how you operate. You know, so
and they're actually so, which is awesome. From the operating group, we actually gave them a bit
of a push on Twitter because they've been so quiet on Twitter for so long, and so we're like,
all right, we really got to start sharing more so people understand what you're working on,
and and you know they're a little frustrated that they haven't resolved everything with Intersect
as their administrator yet yet, and we're like, that's fine. People just want to hear from you.
You can't just like your last post be the post being like, hey, thanks for thanks for voting,
you know. Right, and then disappear completely. Right, which we've seen, and they're like, "Oh,
well, we're working on it," and we're like, "Then that's what you got to say.
Just simple posts is fine." So I was really happy to see they started sharing more information.
Yeah, that's understanding our culture, right? But yeah, anyway, yeah, even
if I was sharing your mug. Now, overall, that's cool, and and and talking to Eric and Brian. I mean,
I was in that interview yesterday, and I was well beyond my depth when it started jumping into the.
Some of the products, things that they were talking about. Thank God I brought Ryan with me,
or I'm sorry, Marco. Oh my God, just talk some. Brought Marco with me to that interview because then
those guys could talk shop, you know, like they like to. So I'm just not that economics, you know,
major, you know, trad five professional. Marco looked like he enjoyed it.
He looked like he absolutely did. There were three peas in a pod, and I was odd man out.
There was no question. So, which was fine, you know. But yeah, you are like,
can I get anybody an espresso? You know, you guys need me there. Like, I am just gonna go, yeah,
yeah, double espresso over here. Yeah, absolutely. That that would, yeah, yeah, love it. Oh my god,
yeah. But yeah, it's um, will be cool to see everybody, you know. Put your big boy pants on
because there's going to be a variety of things going to be happening,
and it might not be all of what we're used to all the time. And there might be some new, you know,
introductions that will come as well along with these things. So just be aware of all these things
as they come, and don't think it's a threat in any way. Just make sure that you understand it all.
You know, so yeah, yeah, that's fair. And I think they do a pretty good job. They've got
different groups on Telegram, and they do have Alpha Growth DeFi group,
and they're very communicative from what I can see in there. And I see they're constantly adding
new people as as needed. So Yeah, and then there's some principles, morals, and principles,
character that I'm finding to be a good thing. Not that I don't see it here in Cardano. Not
that I don't see it with people that I work with on a regular basis, whether it be governance.
But you can still appreciate it. Absolutely can appreciate it. And there's people that
you recognize early on as just who they are as a human, not just necessarily who they are as
a business person or somebody is coming in getting grant funding,
whether or not they're actually going to produce something or not. You know, they actually.
Have some morals and principles to go along with it. So that's just from my experience. I'm sure,
Christina, you probably relate as well with that particular thing with working with them, right?
So I look forward to the new things that are coming. And yeah, there might be some changes,
and yeah, there might be new new people coming in. Be aware of that. Be ready for that.
But it's also super important that we get this going. I would say personally,
and I agree with somebody else that's a part of this group, that we're at least four years
behind when it comes to DeFi. It doesn't mean we can't catch up. But we, at one point,
were over 700 million in TVL in DeFi. We are now at 63 million, right?
And it could contract further. It's not like we're done contracting, you know.
So it can contract further if we let it. But do we want to let it? No, you know. And so, yeah,
there might be some changes. Be ready for them. Have your questions. Super important.
But also know that some of these changes might not necessarily be exactly what you thought they
or think they should be. But just be open minded to what's coming next. Okay, that's all. Oh,
I mean, I'm I'm looking forward to them coming to the community and starting to share more
of that information, as well as take feedback on it too. Because any any changes have been born off
of. Taking that feedback and wanting to help improve, so it'll be it'll be good to have all
that open with the community and have that engagement start. Dude, where's some hands up?
I'm going to start with Johnny Five and then get to Game Changer. Hey, Blockjock,
I know that you're well versed, buddy. We were talking about like DeFi education,
and it's my belief that if you want to build an ecosystem, one of the easiest ways
is to start educating people who are interested in it. Do you know any resources for for
for developers who might want to take
the next level of you know towards the deep end for for educating themselves on DeFi?
Sorry, did you guys hear me? James, I heard you. Hey, James. Maybe stepped away.
Might have ran away. Yeah, he might have stepped out. Happened. Getting a sip of coffee. All right.
John doesn't have anything smart to say. No, but that coffee part can be important.
And if he's using a computer and he's like tied to it, he may not be able to just like click unmute
while he's making his coffee. And I don't want to have my machine brewing when I'm talking to
you guys. Like, is that Johnny Five Eye hard pass? No, all right. Game changer.
Did you have anything you wanted to raise while we're waiting to see if James is back? Sorry,
I apologize. I had somebody in my ear that came to the house. Oh, you're here.
I had to take that real quick. Likely story. I'm in the process of moving right now. I'm
and and if you can hear the echo, this is my entire home, but there's nothing in it.
Literally nothing in it. And so I have the joy of the next couple days putting stuff in it.
It's not going to be fun. If anybody's ever moving about, you can you can feel my pain.
But outside of that, oh yeah. If you want to, sorry, go to Game Changer,
and then maybe you can reask the question. I'm sorry, I missed it. Well,
all Johnny was really looking for was to see if you had a recommendation for education on DeFi.
Where can somebody go to learn more about what DeFi is, what's important, what the obstacles are?
You know, what would you recommend? I would use GPT right off the bat,
and you can understand what decentralized finance means versus traditional finance.
That would be the the main thing. Understand what decentralized finance would really mean to you.
For me, it means having control of my own financial well-being, self-sovereignty, be your own bank,
you know, all that stuff, right? Decentralized finance allows you, at least on Cardano.
If you think about it, like from Rusty Fallen Icarus's point of view, along with a few others,
they would love to have just direct order book style P two P, you know, interactions with people.
So this way, there is a, you know, decentralized. You know, algorithm that's managing it,
or you know, a protocol that's managing it, but there are people just interacting individually
with each other based on what it is that they want to do, right? And then you could offer
new services and things like that to go along with that. But then you make the choices to
whether or not you want to do it or not. There's no intermediary. Like if I work with ETrade,
I have to work with their custodian. I have to submit my money to their protocol, and it's theirs.
Then it's in their control. If they fail, I'm screwed and out. And maybe I can get my money
back later. You know, that's not the case when you work in decentralized finance
and you're your own bank and you're working with a P2P like an order book style
where people have set it up to where you are on your own. Now. When I said you're on your own,
you're on your own. You know, so if you make the mistake and you lost ten thousand dollars,
that's on you. You lost ten thousand dollars. Not everybody wants that responsibility,
but that's where I would focus first when it comes to decentralized finance. And then after that,
start to learn some of the concepts that that are surrounding it and what
that potentially would mean for you. It's so interesting that you say that because my first offering
that I was thinking because I do want to get into DeFi, I've always wanted to have my own exchange.
And I know that sounds very silly, you know. When I go into ChatGPT, I'll put like,
"How do I not lose a billion dollars of my customers' money?" But my first offering, I have a URL.
It's a P2P for me, and I thought I would put a simple offering of a peer-to-peer exchange there.
I mean, I love that idea, and so here's the one thing, like. One thing I've found is is
that we typically don't get progress or traction with things because each individual
is wanting to do their own decks. You know, let's say for example, what
if you had one platform where you could work individually? You know, you create whatever
that you wanted. You're working with a group that is highly, you know, professional.
They're very good at being able to create this particular protocol and keep it running,
and then you can work within it instead of creating your own. I do appreciate
the entrepreneurial spirit. And people creating that, but for me personally,
I don't want to create the decks. I just want to create products or things that I find
that we've been beneficial to me. That maybe others might be attracted to,
and I want to do it in the same you know area. You know, so I go to the same group,
and people are of like mind, and they want to do those things as well. And then
because of what you're doing, they're attracted to it, and then they join you
and participate with it, right? But you need a platform that you're working on instead of
people building 50 decks. You know, have one or two or three where people love to go,
and then use that. But then build your products within it. That's the entrepreneurial spirit
in my mind. Instead of just creating something from scratch over and over and over again,
that's something that has really kept us from grabbing the brass ring, in my mind, over and over
and over again. We just keep missing it because there's like five thousand people trying to grab it
all at the same time. You know, so yeah, you know, so that's where I kind of separate.
I'm not talking centralized protocol here. I'm just talking about something where it's open,
loosely federated group of people. They're all getting in there and doing their thing.
They're of like mind, and they're creating these different cool little things that people may
or may not find attractive. You know, yeah, that's cool. Esco has a thing called Better. I wonder,
I wonder if it would be a nice place to. Kind of aggregate some of that stuff there.
He has a really good idea, and I've listened to him. This was like two years ago
when I first heard about this idea with him when he was manning the booth over at Iagon for
for that Rare Evo, and his ideas were absolutely amazing. And I really look forward to, especially
after him going through Draper U, what comes from that, you know, because I think he's going to have
even a better version of better. No pun intended. So anyway, absolutely. Well, thank you.
Appreciate it. Game changer. Hey, hey, James! Great to to have you here. I also want to.
I actually wanted to ask you a question, but kind of you already replied it.
I don't know if you are aware of the Dex we have. We are building building all these months ago.
It's called NeonSoup. Trade. You can test it. Test it now if you want. It's on alpha,
and basically it's based on the P2P DeFi kernel, and this is why I wanted your opinion.
And of course, if you have any feedback, the same with anybody else on the space,
that would be awesome. When I met Rusty, I I I fall in love with the the same concept
that actually it's how it works mostly on for example EVM world on Ethereum
like a global shared liquidity like a lot of windows is to access the same liquidity like you
can you can have a trillion dexes but if you all talk the same basic protocols to deal with
the same shared liquidity. Things could have been super different on Cardano.
The day I understood the project, I told Rusty, "Okay, we will help you from Game Changer side." And
some months later, we we launched. I mean, not launched officially, but it's an alpha.
But we created Neon Soup. It's basically P2P defi kernel. There is nothing. There is no alterations,
of course, to the To the validator, so the idea is to try to build something that can be
just one another window toward the same shared liquidity. What are your thoughts
about the P2P DeFi kernel and the future of this protocol? And how how do you perceive like
the overall Cardano community moving forward, knowing that there are some dexs now in trying to
or integrating the protocol? It's like, do you think this can Give them a chance to answer. Hang on.
Yeah. So okay. So the one thing I I love the tech and I love the idea. No question. The issue is is
how to market it and whether or not you can get traction with or not. If anybody remembers,
you know, our first order book, and now I'm forgetting their name. It's been so long
since they started it. But we had a good group of people. There's a variety of notables there
in Cardano that were a part of it. And escaping me the name of it right now.
But they could not get any traction. When I say traction, I mean people bringing in liquidity
into the order book. It requires it in order for it to operate, right? So
if you don't have people in there, you have a very thin. If you have a few people in there,
you have a very thin order book. So outside of that, is am I on track here with the type
of tech that you're talking about, or are you then able to? Or is this going to be
able to also aggregate liquidity pools that are currently indexes that are existing here in Cardano?
If you're asking for our side or what I was asking, basically we were we are focusing more on P
two P. And my question also is, right? I mean, yeah. So P two P is a great idea.
The issue is is for people to use it. So you can have this bright, shiny, cool, centralized thing,
right? Like what Rusty's talking about, and very well thought out, you know.
But if you don't have anybody using it. You know, it's like if a tree falls in the woods,
does it make a noise? I mean, that's basically it, right? Okay. So that's where that's
where we run into the issue, and people have tried it a few different times. So you need to have
actual people thinking this is a good idea, one and two, that it's can be trusted, right?
They have to have confidence in that it will work and that it cannot be exploited. You know,
and that's where I see a lot of people like they bring up these really cool ideas
and these are great ways to you know attract new users, but they have no sales pitch.
They have no hook into the product to get it started, and then, it over time, people lose interest
and it fades. And I've seen it for the last seven years now. So, you know, I'm curious from
Game Changers' point of view. You guys have been in it for a minute.
What is it exactly that will change that particular aspect and bring people into
and use this particular thing and give them confidence to use it in the future?
And then they'll actually recommend it to others, which is basically how you create a business,
you know, a profitable business or something that attractive that other people will use. Yeah. Okay,
if I may, at least now nowadays that the project is very small and yeah, the team of
as you know is very reduced. So by the way, if anybody wants to join and collaborate,
the door is very open. But going back to the idea, the what I where I see value with NeonSoup.
Is to, as I said, create another, yet another door or window toward the same share liquidity.
If more projects integrate the protocol, maybe you know, aggregating liquidity
from maybe other protocols, but especially just collaborating towards the same protocol
for different kind of products, not just dexes. I think that was the idea of Rusty:
create building blocks, building blocks that are more like Ethereum in that regard.
Because they have a very successful DeFi ecosystem, because basically they were
able to kind of solve this not only the shared liquidity but also the shared knowledge
towards the same protocol, and not vendor, you know, keeping or gatekeeping the the know-how
and the access to that technology. Anybody was welcome to mirror Uniswap to mirror any other swap,
and that's the key. So NyanSwap is based 100% under that concept. And if you want to bypass us,
you're you're welcome. That's the concept. We are very different decks.
That is more aligned to Ethereum mindsets, but for Cardano. No, I I love the passion
and I love the concept. I really do. Then what what it would be is instead of thinking like
people are just going to come, right? If you build it, they will come. You have to go out
and get people to think it's a good idea. You have to go out and get people to think
that they want to use that. If they start to add to it, add liquidity into it,
and then now you have something that's attractive because there are users
and there's liquidity there. Then businesses go. What are you guys doing?
And then they want to work with you. Why? Because there's users and liquidity there. You know.
So you have to build that out first. And I know everybody talks about the chicken and egg thing.
I look at it more as like you you spin plates. If anybody's ever watched anybody that spun plates,
you know, and they do like twenty of them, you know, and they're really good at it.
If you can get like three or five plates spinning at the same time and make Something attractive,
others will gravitate towards it, and they will then put time and energy into it.
If it all comes together at the same time, then you're good, and the plate stays spinning.
And then they'll start spinning on their own. If you can think about it just metaphorically here.
If they don't, and it doesn't happen, then all the plates start to fall,
and and that's what happens. But that's The way to get around the chicken and egg thing, in my mind,
if you think about that metaphorically, how to be able to do that,
but you have to have participants: one that believe in what you are doing,
two can bring in new users, and three start to get liquidity. And that requires you to go out
and talk to people and get them to come in and use this particular thing. Right after that,
it should catch fire, right, and get going. But you have to get it to the point
where it actually catches fire, and that requires a shit ton of work and patience, really. You know,
so game. I appreciate you guys. You guys been around for a while. Quasar has been talking you up
for I don't know three years now. Right. You know, so do appreciate you guys for sure.
Can I comment on Game Changer? Yeah, yeah. So, Game Changer, I'd love to hook up, man.
I love your ethos and and just your vibe, man. So, I've been kicking around this idea
because I've been thinking very seriously for for a while now about trying to do a peer
to peer network, and I and I see what you're doing. So, I was talking to Charles in a space
a little while ago, and I gave him an idea that I had for a double blind auction. If you will,
a room where arbitrary objects are bouncing around. They have a number and they have a range, right?
So a new way to a new way for people to do negotiations where your parameters are compared against
other people's parameters without a third party being able to see them and front run them.
And one of the things that I was kicking around in my head with the with
the Midnight Protocol is that perhaps you could have a double blind auction in a peer
to peer setting where you don't require liquidity because everybody's bringing their own liquidity
when they come in. Right, and so imagine if you have ten bouncing balls in a box, right?
Half are red, half are green. Everybody has a price they want to pay for a particular thing,
and what they're offering for that particular thing. And when they're within range,
they stick to each other. And then when n number of reds stick to one green,
then there's some matter of time, like an epoch, and then the the the the two that match
the closest burst. The rest fall into another room and are reorganized. And and you know,
if there's not enough people, you can have spoof balls. That will obfuscate.
So so so privacy-preserving peer-to-peer, perhaps potentially with with no liquidity required,
just users when they come. And then it might require a little bit of patience to wait for
your execution. But if you know what you want and you know how much you want to pay for it,
you stick it in there. And then someone else does the same thing, and when they match, they mate,
and the balls explode, and and the transaction is done, and the rest are re-aggregated
and re-organized in a way where there's no front running, there's no third party that knows,
and and it could be for other things. It doesn't have to be just for money, right?
It could be a new way of transacting. Imagine if a home auction could go that way.
You have your range, the seller has their range, attorney negotiations, right,
finding an amicable settlement without any parties being privileged or or that sort of thing. So,
but I'd love to hook up with you, man. That's that sounds great, and it's kind of aligned to an idea
for auctions, live auctions, like in real time, happening off-offuscated,
like in a in a more private. Realm off chain, and then just to settle on Cardano.
Not Midnight involved yet, at least on the idea that we were brainstorming
and based on a technology, a library that is open source that we offer, that is called UniMatrix,
which powers all our multiSig features on the wallet. So yes, please let's let's connect
because maybe we can. I mean, please let's let's try to connect and and and instead of overlap,
I prefer to just join forces. So 100%. I love that, Simon. Yeah, so so my understanding always was
that we were just not the first movers, and there's this this idea of winner takes all economy
that we're in online. Everyone, right? And yeah, so so my understanding,
please correct me if I'm wrong, was that because of that, we we're just not first place,
and maybe even not second or third, and that's why. Why it's basically stagnant?
Our DeFi grows the all the banking applications that we want to have on Cardano. So for me,
the only way out of that, or the only path forward for DeFi, in my opinion, in my limited, you know,
knowledge about this, is we should find find a sorry, like a a space
where where that is not yet occupied, or that is like not well occupied,
but has a Has a good potential market, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Right. What would that be, though?
Then, Simon, in your mind, I don't know. I'm not in the space, right? Right, right, right.
But just from a business perspective, right? I mean, you should understand this. We're in a,
you know, I mean, and and I'm I'm really just putting this out there because I would like someone
to tell me if that is right or if I'm wrong, why I'm wrong. I disagree only
because I think Cardano has to put out basic offerings that are offered on other ecosystem chains
first. So we have to have the basics that everyone else has, as Phil has pointed out in the past.
That that's my opinion. So you're saying we we don't even have the basics yet? Most of them.
I think about it. We don't, and well, and they're way ahead of us. They got at least four years,
right? I think about it from the point of view: like, what what is on for?
What does Cardano's blockchain offer that Ethereum's doesn't? One is, is to me,
it's always been security, determinism, and the ability to be able to make an order
and not get charged a fee for if the damn thing doesn't go through, which is something
I just despise in Ethereum. And I left it, along with a variety of other reasons. You know,
in the beginning, because there was one too many exploits. Two, the fees were extraordinarily high,
and in order to hop from you know one thing to another, I had to do three hops,
and the fees were just extraordinarily—they are atrocious. So I left there, and I came here.
But when I came here, I went from somebody that was in a gas-powered you know
internal combustion vehicle into a horse and buggy. You know, and we weren't ready, you know,
for any of that, right? And they were still building it all out, and then we went
crazy infrastructure hard to the point where we built the most amazing fucking bridge
that could manage the most heaviest thing in the world to transfer across it,
and we didn't have anything heavy to even drive across and use the bridge for. You know,
so it's like okay, now we need balance. We're rebalancing. Playing catch up.
We're catching up right now. But in the end, Cardano to me is still the place that is secure,
deterministic. I can work with people that I like, you know, and not worry about
whether or not they're going to stab me in the back six months from now. You know,
there's so many things, you know, that I love about this particular space. You know,
that I I don't with Ethereum, right? And also we're a smaller market, so people with ideas
like yourselves have. A better ability to be able to get traction early.
If you went over to Ethereum, that's a huge fishbowl. Okay, we're talking like a little lake
over here. That's an ocean over there. So you go over there; it's a huge ocean.
How do you even get attention? You know, compared to the big boys now,
a lot of people got their spot, and good luck getting new attention unless you got big money
coming into Ethereum. Right? Cardano doesn't require that as much yet,
so there's still opportunity there for smaller entrepreneurs. I'm not going to say hopefully
that changes, but I'm going to say that I hope that we start to put our big boy pants on
and start to have a little more liquidity here and larger liquidity providers that find
our ecosystem and our DeFi space attractive, and that's what we need to work on now. Yes, thank you.
That's what we're working from a business perspective. Guys, I'm going to have to stop you
right there. I actually got to go. And unfortunately, I'm the host, so I got to wrap this up.
You're really gracious with your time. I mean, we're well over, no question. I know, I know.
But listen, I appreciate the conversation. It's a solid conversation. These are things
we do need to keep talking about. And that said, come back tomorrow because Simon will be here
to talk more about governance incentives, and you can continue this conversation. Go. Thank you,
guys. Everybody, I appreciate you, Chad. Appreciate you co-hosting. Always appreciate you
for the mid-roll, James. Nice to see you, game changer. I am so thankful you came out.
You had so much to share, and I can't wait to hear more about it. Please consider coming back
in a bit. Let us know how these programs are working, how successful it is, and let's convince
more people to check out NeonSoup Trade. And send a DM to me, thank you, with the link,
and let's talk marketing. Okay. I literally just said it's NeonSoup Trade. Right. I'm. I'm not
where. Just have to send you a DM so that way I remember to do it. Sorry. Talk to you guys later.
Bye. And thanks for getting us Alpha Growth too. Rock on.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No problem. I'll talk to you guys later. Bye, y'all.
