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CB DAO Weekly Space. dRep and Community Concerns and DAO updates
Recorded: July 31, 2025 Duration: 1:00:01Space Recording
Full Transcription
All right, all right. What's up, everybody? My name is Logan, and I'm on a mission to implement
decentralized governance into the fabric of society. And today we have a very exciting space.
First off, I want to welcome Charles up to the stage. How's it going, Charles? Hey, Logan.
Good to see you, man. How you been? Good, man. Been on, been on the grind. Been on the grind.
And before we get started. I want to, you know, I speak for myself here,
but I also think I speak for a lot of the the builders here, where you know we just want to say
like we're all here building on Cardano, a lot of because of the the notions you instilled,
such as self custody over over not having custody, self sovereign identity
over state controlled identity, and just a belief that in the future the the global flea market
is going to be rebuilt on chain. So much of that thinking comes from you.
So thank you very much for for coming up and supporting us. Well, it's awesome to see
how far we've gone. I mean, we had Genesis Keys last year, man, and look at where we're at today.
You know, it's it's whole government waking up with millions of people all around the world,
many of which have never met each other, and they're doing great things. You know,
I'm I'm here in Colorado and getting ready to go to Rare Evo, and while I'm here,
JJ's down in Argentina at our office with Moneta and Sunday Labs and DC Spark and dozens of others,
and they're talking about building the first private stablecoin in the Cardano ecosystem. And then,
you know, we got people getting ready for for Rare Evo, and they have tons of cool things for
Governance Day, the Cardano Sovereign Wealth Fund proposal. You know, obviously the budget is
is finally starting to get done, and we're now going to go and talk about the next year
and you know how do we do it much better. You know, we're moving from an interim
Constitutional Committee to a full a fully elected Constitutional Committee,
and that'll be done here in a few months. Intersects. The board will be majority community
elected before the end of the year, so that's a really cool thing. So we're exiting
the interim period and we're entering the age of permanent governance.
And there's all kinds of cool software from treasury contracts that have been created to DAOs
to you know all nifty things to look at proposals in the wallet, and that's just a year's worth
of progress. So end to end, it's been. Remarkably successful year, and then when you look at it
from the lens of development on the ecosystem for our core technology,
Laos is under heavy construction, and we're really starting to get down to a practical design
for it. And we're making enormous progress with Hydra. In fact, Hydra is being used in the
in the Midnight airdrop, so it's the largest airdrop in the history of the cryptocurrency industry,
and it's powered by Hydra. We're making great progress with Bitcoin DeFi.
We're already starting to talk about kind of like BitVM version three,
and we're kind of leading the pack on a lot of things, especially post quantum discussions
and folding. So there's just a massive amount of progress everywhere you look across the board,
and and just it's staggering the amount of companies that are involved and just
how these builders are starting to wake up and and actually take over and do amazing things. Yeah,
absolutely, and I think that's a good segue into the main topic of conversation today,
which is the Cardano Builder DAO. So this is a DAO that has 40 proven companies that have built on
Cardano in here that are building products, and we all have one goal, which is to increase our KPIs
and in turn Cardano's KPI. So it's really exciting, and I wanna wanna set the scene here by saying
how this actually came about and show how it's actually a grassroots movement that happened.
And I was, you know, just having one of those chats with my co-founder. You know,
you had one of your AMAs, and it's talking about how like we need to take care of the people
that have been here. We need to make sure that people can continue to to build on Cardano and build
scalable applications. And it was like, okay. You know, maybe there's a gap
in Cardano's funding structure because what we know at the end of the day
is if we don't increase the usage and on-chain activity and TVL and all that good stuff,
Cardano dies. So how do we spur the innovation to make sure that these projects that have
the capability to scale and serve markets outside of what's currently in Cardano
can can be supported? And then we just started getting more and more builders to to buy into
the idea. So first question for you, Charles, is you know what do you know about the Cardano builder
now? Well, you know, I I've been following you guys along. I think there's
what 40 Catalyst graduates or something like that. There's there's quite a bit of people
that are floating around this orbit. But it more generally, there was this issue
in the Cardinal ecosystem, and it's a structural issue, and it's partly my fault
and partly other people's faults. But and the historical issue is that there was really not
a clear path that someone would take after they get Catalyst funding to go from getting
Catalyst funding to becoming fully funded VC enabled venture that's growing and you know achieving
great things. So you can get a grant. But after you get the grant, what what happens next? Like,
is there an incubator accelerator? Is there like now board members that come and help you out?
Is there a white glove development team that helps you kind of accelerate your application
and you know figure out technical problems? You know, how do you go about figuring out
your product market fit? You know, how do you build partnerships? There's dozens
of these considerations that come in, and and it could be just as practical as I let's say I I have
a yield marketplace. You know, where do I get TVL for that, and what partners can I bring in
for that? So Catalyst doesn't do that. Catalyst is an innovation fund.
Its purpose is to kind of discover people, get them some money, give them some money for something
that is a you know a beginning, middle, and an end. You know, you you create something,
you deliver that thing, and you're done. It's not really there to be a venture capital firm
and follow you on that journey from a startup to a fully fledged business making lots of revenue.
So we needed infrastructure in the cardinal ecosystem for this, and when you look at analogs,
like for example the the avalanche ecosystem or the Solana ecosystem, there the foundation is
very active. They give money, they have a lot of venture capital relationships. They work with A16Z
and Pantera and others. And they get them to deploy capital, and they also have
those white-glove developers who help you basically get your product to the next stage.
Our foundation really didn't do that, and historically, Amergo was supposed to do some
of these things, hasn't really done that. So we've been at a bit of a disadvantage as an ecosystem
as a whole, where the founding entities really haven't been able to coordinate at the level
that they need to be able to help our ecosystem grow. So we need to use
the Cardinal Treasury to start building some structures that are transcendent of Catalyst
that are basically there to help graduates of Catalyst get to the next level.
And it's a two-part relationship. One part is what we can do as an ecosystem on chain.
And then the second part of the relationship is what can larger entities like Intersect
and Input Output do throughout the the broader cryptocurrency space to bring in
incubator accelerators and venture capitalists. Like I met just recently with Pantera,
we've met with Outlier Ventures, we've met recently with Techstars, and we've been talking to a lot
of these different guys. And and what we're going to be doing on the our side at Input Output
is through midnight. There's going to be the creation of something called
the Midnight Ecosystem Group. And that's going to aggregate a lot of VCs into the Cardano orbit
because they're technically being aggregated around a Cardano native asset,
which means now they know Cardano and they they kind of know what's going on,
so they can co-invest in Cardano ventures as well. But there does need to be an on-chain artifact,
and there's been a lot of proposals over the last year to two years about
how these on-chain constructions should work. And my understanding of the Builders DAO is, you know,
it's a it's a structure that can help be that middle ground between where Catalyst graduates
and where you actually are fully form functioning business, and you're making lots of money,
and you have lots of customers, your tokens growing to the moon. It's it's
a very necessary component between those two parts that we as an ecosystem can put some money into,
and it can go to some very trusted people, you know, like Drip Drops and Indigo and Sunday
and Ada Link and Euro and Anvil and Clear Contracts and Dex Hunter and Fluid Tokens and Ikey Guy
and Ada Handle and Matera and NFT CDN and Ork Facts and Tap Tools and Vesper and You know, Nem
and Fluxpoint Studios and Snack and and so forth. The list goes on and on and on. You know,
there's a lot of people there. These aren't just names; they're people and their companies,
and they've been in the ecosystem for a while. And we have to understand that they've carried a lot
of water for us. They've showed up. They're at the conferences. They believe in the ecosystem.
They want the ecosystem to be successful. They just need some vital lifeblood
and resources to kind of get to the next level, and and we have the treasury for this. We have
1.8 billion ADA to make that happen, and you know we we have to be judicious with it.
But at the same time, it is sufficient that we can fund our obligations as an ecosystem
and get the resources in the hands of the people that can get it to next level,
because these are the people that are going to bring in the next million users to Cardano.
These are the people they're going to bring in the next 10 million transactions to Cardano.
These are the people they're going to take our TVL from 350 million to a billion. You know,
these are the people that are actually going to take Cardano to the next level. So we,
we as an ecosystem, need to kind of work together and invest. And you know, at the IO side,
we're we're trying to work on the things we we do best, which is we can.
We're big enough to have a conversation with the panthers of the world and others,
and set up ecosystem development groups. Whereas on the on the ecosystem side, it needs to step up,
and they need to show that the Cardano ecosystem is ready to enable to fund people.
Ayaan, it looks like you unmuted. But yeah, Charles, well said. I mean,
there's there's so much to unpack with everything, but yeah, essentially at the end of the day,
what we want to do is, you know, we have all these products that have proven
they can deliver through Catalyst. They've they've gone through the rigmarole of closing out
those milestones, which we all realize as builders is not easy. And then we have
these working products, and what we need to do is scale these. So how do we get to the the point
where our TVL for our app is increasing enough to where it turns the heads of investors,
so that we can go on to be that that scalable business that is backed by real investors
and is bringing in real users from outside of our current bubble? So, absolutely.
I want to toss it over to my co-host. Who I always say this because it's true and it's funny.
He's the biggest pain in my ass, but he's also the my my favorite pain in the ass.
And it's always because he's trying to get shit done. What's going on, doctor? Yo, what's up?
You know I'm I'm great. Um, just finished clinic, sitting down. Enjoying the space, so it's good.
Thank you, Charles, for attending. And I think you've you've knocked a lot
of what I've been kind of, uh, kind of trumpeting right along when I was talking about CB Dow.
I I kind of reframed it in in in a in a slightly different way where the stronger the community
of builders around that can actually work together, the stronger the ability to attract outside
capital. And the way I kind of framed it was. Imagine if X company goes,
and it's not something that a VC's thesis is kind of looking at, or a funders thesis is looking at,
but because they have that connection through CBDAO, that kind of layer can be disseminated to say,
"Yo, look at this. Um, I have a colleague who's basically building what you what you want.
" So come along, and I think that social structure within CBDAO, besides just trying to get our KPIs
up and getting um TVL and building out the products for the next billion customers,
it's it's also about ensuring that we don't pull the ladder up behind us, kind of thing. Um.
So it's it's an interesting, it's an in interesting way, um, to to get the the funding.
I think the Charles drop off. I think Charles dropped off. Yeah, he he told me
the first fifteen minutes. Yeah, he he doesn't like you, bro. No, he did say he could join
the first fifteen minutes, and that was that. So he's a busy man. Keep going. No, no,
I I was literally just saying that what what the vision that's been planted is
that that element where that social fabric can build up the whole community in one in one go.
And it's it's difficult to organize, but once it's organized, it's just a system that we need.
Just need to get more projects in and move them along that pathway. So, Logan, I have to say this:
it you've done a fantastic job. I always keep blowing smoke up you. So you know what I was
about to say, but because it's a recorded space on site, um.
But you've done a great job, and here comes the trouble. Cashes up.
I was promised Charles Hoskinson. What is this? He was here the first 15 minutes, bro.
He heard you were joining, and then he dropped off. Yeah, he was like, "Oh, Cash is coming. I'm out.
I'm out." I just literally forced a client off the meeting early so I could come to this space,
and he left me, left me hanging. Cool. Dang, he was in here. So we got a we got a good audience.
I hope everyone's enjoying the talk so far. I think, you know, we had a. Some great insights
from Charles there about what the CBDAO is and why it's needed for the Cardano ecosystem.
So we're just going to carry on the conversation here. If you are a community member
or a D rep with questions, like you know, we've been getting feedback that we're not open,
we're not you know taking feedback, like whatever whatever that is. Like you are welcome to come up
here and chat with us. We'll answer any questions. If you want to shoot us a message,
we'll also respond to that. So yeah, this is your space to come up and ask questions,
but we'll be carrying on the conversation here. And Obi Mayor, what's up? Yeah, hey guys,
it's just a bit late, but I saw you guys were sort of on, and I figured like I really want to join
and just generally just give my two cents in regards to like I think what a lot
of people don't realize is not every project wants to handle the complexities
and the intricacies of like running its own DAO, and because the CB DAO exists,
it's like this very nice sort of like index, right, of just like the top performing projects
on Cardano and just people just giving value out there, and it just sort of handles this
and sort of like it it handles sort of Just many attributes, right? And it's just, yeah.
I just wanted to sort of say, just really appreciate it. I do try. I do see you guys
sort of coming up here and there, and it's like I try to, like, you know, just time zone wise,
I try to like make these meetings. But yeah, I'll try my best. But yeah, I saw this one, and I was,
you know, awake at the time. It's currently about one o'clock in the morning,
but I thought I'd sort of stop by, say hi to everyone, and yeah, really let you guys know that your,
yeah, freaking amazing initiative. Thanks, man. Appreciate that. Appreciate that a lot. Okay,
so let's let's let's move the conversation over to you know something
maybe a little more entertaining. We have a lot of builders up here, so I'm gonna put you guys
on the hot seat. You all have say one minute to answer. But the core purpose
of the Cardano Builder DAO is to increase users and increase on-chain activity on Cardano. So,
you know. You know, you all are creating treasury withdrawal proposals that we'll talk about
how your company will do this. So, if you have a one-minute pitch on how your company
is going to increase the KPIs that that we're tracking at Cardano Builder DAO
and how you're going to do it, I would I would love to hear a few of you guys give your pitches,
and I can also attempt to do one for for clarity somewhere in the middle. I can. Is it just anybody
or? Yeah, go for it. We popcorning. All right, I think I was off mute before Cash was,
so I'll go first, Cash. So at Fluxpoint Studios, we're really pushing sustainability. I mean,
and with sustainability, you need TXs on chain, right? We need Cardano to have more TXs on chain.
And what we're focused on is really bringing the agentic economy alive in DeFi, where we already,
like at this moment, have twenty users. Running variations of different AI trading bots
on our Atom platform, and they—they it's just literally load and go. They set up
a trading account wallet, they deposit like whatever tokens they want, and then boom,
like you have a mix of determinism outcome and and some flexibility with generative AI.
And they manage these different types of modes like portfolio management if you want
a certain spread of DeFi meme tokens. You know, or or D pin tokens, what have you? You set those up,
and then it's just portfolio managed for you. And those transactions happen twenty four seven,
three sixty five, right? That's one minute. That's one minute. There you go. Well said, man.
That's exciting. Cash, you unmuted. You ready to give one? Yeah, I'm ready to go. Um, so at Anvil,
I think I think a lot of you guys are aware as of last week that we're really making a push
for our API. Um, we think it's going to solve a lot of problems that builders have building on
Cardano. And through the through the Builder DAO, our goal is to fund you know expansion
of that API feature set, scaling opportunities, and of course you know hitting our KPIs
that we're promising. Right now, you know we've done about 2,500 transactions through our API,
and it's not even released yet. You know we've set goals of upwards of 50,000 transactions for the
for the 12 month mark, and that's that's what you want to see, right? Like at the end of the day,
I can talk up here all day, but our goal is to create transactions on Cardano. Our API will do that,
and I don't even need the full minute to say that. So thank you. Bang bang bang, Aegon, what's up?
Your sound is no bueno. A little bit hard to hear you. Still the same. Okay, let's the next person.
Flow your next. Go for it. I think we all know how IAGAN will create on-chain transactions
because they're well known. But yeah, maybe they can fix their audio. And until then, I will go.
Highly likely, a lot of guys know us already. We are new. We are fractionalizing music. I he writes
and bring bring them on chain. I think that's the one part. And what really differentiates us.
From a lot of other projects, look, musicians are not in Cardano right now. So what we are preparing
and why we need some funding for is we know our customer acquisition costs,
we know our lifetime value per customer, and now we have to run paid ads, we have to scale it,
we have to bring new people from Web 2.0 to Cardano. And to be honest,
I would love to front run any other music startup, Web 3 startup out there to be the first one
to catch them and bring them to Cardano because in the moment they are locked in.
I would love every other project on here to show them the nice product suite we all have,
what they can do here in Cardano. Because I think what we also need is not only
on-chain transaction; that's a byproduct. We need more users, we need more customers, and we need
more people in Cardano. Thank you. Nice, nice. I'll jump in with with Clarity.
So I'm a co-founder of Clarity. I get to be the humble host of the Cardano builders most weeks,
but Let me start my clock here because I actually have been timing people. But with clarity, really,
how we're going to bring more users and transactions to Cardano is is through the concept of DAOs.
So what I do is we're like a B2B business. We talk to soccer clubs that have
these distributed groups of fans around that they want to organize. We talk to HOAs,
which are hundreds, sometimes thousands of people that are a community
that need to coordinate together, and the best solution for them is DAOs. So we'll show them,
you know, we'll we'll have conversations, build the relationships, and then we'll show them the app,
and they'll be like, oh, that's great. But then the hang up where they always get caught is like,
oh, wait, you have to download a a A wallet. You have to have a crypto wallet, and we're like, yeah.
So what we're doing and what we're going to use CBDAO funds to do is is build a mobile application
where all the crypto stuff is in the back end, and you can go and join your communities.
And we'll get things like HOAs and sports teams and you know networking syndicates,
angel syndicates, all those types of stuff, different use cases for DAO. So that's what we're doing.
So with that being said, I think we have a few new faces up here. I know Angry, what's up?
Thanks for joining again, and Ed and stuff. Did you guys have specific questions for the DAO,
Conrad? I see you're coming off mute. Oh yeah, may I go now? If not, I can just yeah go go go go go.
Yeah, I mean handles are slowly migrating into a next evolution of digital
or virtual identity on chain. Especially with our upcoming Hal Mint that is going to happen in
August, it's going to literally allow you to own your presence wherever it is you are.
If it's in a Web three game, if it's in a metaverse, additionally with that.
With decentralized minting that is currently live already, you are able to interact with
the smart contract and mint handles and eventually assets as well without any interference from us.
With our plans on starting minting handles on Bitcoin and other chains,
while always maintaining Cardano as the source of truth for handles, we firmly believe this is
a nice gateway on attracting users from other chains and especially with the whole interoperability.
That's always a hard word for me to say. We we really believe there's a big gap there
where we can unite everyone together. And with that being said, Handle Chat will all also make
it a great tool for people from across different chains just to communicate with each other just
by talking to wallet to wallet. That's my little short pitch. Thanks, guys. Awesome, Aegon.
Is your mic working? I hope so. Can you guys hear me well now? Yeah, we can hear you well now.
Doctor, you have your hand up. You want to go before Aegon goes? No, no, no. Let Nav the man do it.
All right, thanks. I mean, for us, it's important that the CBDAO, you know,
succeeds in general for all the builders out here. I think that as long as everyone succeeds,
I think that it'll bring a lot of transactions on chain for Cardano, and it'll bring bring a lot
of success to the Cardano ecosystem. So I think it's not just important just to talk about Iagon,
but also in general all the projects. I think this is a very important proposal.
But for AIGON in general, we we have a lot of proposals to catalysts, and those are more so off
off track in terms of our main developments. They have approached us in terms
of business development. As we see, CBDAO as a way to you know focus on on the main product,
improve our main product, and bring more transactions and users on chain. Currently,
we have an expenditure about one 125k USD. It's available in our docs per month.
And we have a unique proposal, I guess. I think a few few people are privy to that in terms
of just giving us feedback on on those on that proposal. And we think we have a unique way of,
you know, getting the funds that we need immediately, and also contributing to
to Cardano buildable as much as possible, and also giving money back to the treasury
if that's possible. So I think that through our proposal, I think that we will bring transactions
on chain, and also at the same time benefit the Cardano ecosystem on the CBDA.
Hopefully that explains it in a very high level. Love it, yeah. Well said, Doctor.
What what do you have to say, man? You know, I have to plug Zerbris, right?
There's no like two ways about it. There's like, yeah. So good. I'll I'll give you a quick bit.
Zerbris is essentially going to go cross chain. And be able to represent in spaces
that we're not usually part of. It's something that has been part of my mantra for a very, very,
very long time. Bring the data that we've seen here, in a way that investors can look at
our ecosystem in a different light. And I think CBDA will help that initiative
because we're not inwardly looking. We want outwardly looking venture that wants to bring people
from the outside in. We want those BCs to say, oh, there's something that's been built on Cardano
and is now in a different space than just the usual Cardano space.
That there's something interesting and bring them on here. So for us, it's mostly going to be around
that, and that means different places, different. I can't drop names yet
because it hasn't been announced, but different places that we usually see things in the mainstream,
and that's where we want to kind of represent the all the Kalano information that
we've been doing for for the last four or five years, as well as scaling Siren up for
for enterprises. That's another big area of of development that we want to kind of do,
so we're the outwardly facing face of CBDAO in a way that we want to bring those connections within
that we make outside to within all the builders that are part of CBDAO,
and that just makes us all richer for the best. Was that good? Yeah, well, well said, sir.
Well said is a. Any questions, Angry and Ed? I know all the all the projects have talked now,
so I mean, really, this is truly a space for the community to come up and ask questions.
I'll say it again: if you have any questions about the CBDAO, you can come up and ask us right here,
or you can message us, and we'll get back. Angry, what's up? Yeah, I think marketing always augments
what your product is is kind of like a multiplier, and I think everyone who has said stuff
about transactions is correct. I don't know who who said it in terms of like transactions is
the byproduct, right? When we focus on the user. Then we get the transactions we're looking for.
All in all, like yeah, I'm hearing a lot of good stuff. Regarding like Noom,
I guess like I have a question for Noom: is like how do you compete with like the likes
of SoundCloud, Spotify, YouTube, Apple Music, Audius? You know, Audius tried last cycle.
Because on one one hand, like advertising is important, but on the other hand,
it's also like a matter of users are fickle and they don't. User experience design teaches us
that users don't transition to a new platform if the you know the benefits don't really are not
kind of overflowing. In terms of transitioning from one platform that they're used to
to a new platform, so I'm just curious, you know, like how you view the competitive landscape
and like the competitive advantages that you can offer, and yeah, perhaps like your view
on the industry, the music industry, on on bringing more musicians in. Oh, definitely.
I think for the music industry itself, I would propose another space because it might take
too much time. But to answer your question, very very. Briefly, and I try to not overshoot here.
The streaming services you mentioned, we are building. These are not our direct competitors
right now. So what we are, what our first product is, is a distribution service.
We are distributing to all of them to capture also the audience for the artist,
and then we are fractionalizing these music rights, streaming royalty rights. What it is in the end,
so that the fans can. Come to Karano, purchase them, get gifted them, be a part of the story
of the song, and interact with the artist more directly. This is the product we have live right now.
We at Nume building a whole ecosystem, so streaming and using at least listen to your music NFTs
in a very convenient way. That's something we pushed as well already, and it's live through our app.
And streaming is on the roadmap, but we are not directly from. Are competing with them right now.
Sorry for my daughter; she wants some attention as well. So we are really supporting
more the underlying infrastructure to be on these platforms right now.
I think that's a little bit makes it a little bit more clear. And yes,
we know that artists need a better value proposition. We we have done our research already.
We talked with a roughly 500 artists already. Met them where they are on on events,
and did did already the research. And we know that they love our value proposition.
The only thing they are not so happy right now is with all the crypto stuff,
because they don't know what they're doing. They don't know. They need a lot of education,
and this is why our customer acquisition cost is still higher than what we expected.
But it's going down over time because education here is key, and we have to do
different tests to get it down. But I hope this answers your question. Yeah, awesome!
Thanks for answering that question. I'm going to do the mid roll here.
We're about halfway through the space. We will be ending at the top of the hour,
should the conversation last that long. If you like what you're hearing,
if you believe in all these builders getting together to create higher upside for Cardano
when it comes to more users and more on-chain activity, we encourage you to vote yes
for the Cardano Builder DAO. I also want to thank all the builders for taking time out of their day
to come to this, because I know that there are many other things to do besides campaign for this,
like build applications and actually onboard people. Ed, how's it going, man? Hey,
I have a couple things to say. Obviously, as a non-builder here, I You know,
I was I was hit up actually by a recruiter recently to to help structure stuff for MakerDAO
of all places, because I guess they're having some issues and kind of hurting all the cats,
as it were. So even in these older DAOs, they're still having a lot of trouble getting to consensus
because they're all stuck in a variety of different tools with a lot of kind of a social engineers
who can't all agree on terms and definitions and goals. And so I think that this is
a very useful DAO because it's it's it's niched down, right? So you're not hurting an army
of different people. And I like the idea that your because you can't do that all
in the broader governance structure, you know what I mean. You need you need
specific groups to you know there's going to need to be a marketing DAO as well, right?
And then those two DAOs can communicate with each other rather than it being stuck in the malaise
of quote governance, right? These massive structures with You know, every participant.
I think it's appropriate that we have a kind of like lobbies, if you will,
or or working groups that you get in governments. And I I like the idea.
I've always been a big advocate for abstracting away the Web three enus in all of our apps.
I know Nav is big on that. I think Fluxpoint. I actually probably everybody here, I suspect,
is is is in that place, right? UI UX because these are people that use these systems at
the end of the day, which is what I was trying to explain to the recruiter.
And that's why I think products that take a user perspective, like you know,
not a developer perspective, but just how how a regular person will come in and see it,
is actually very valuable. A/B testing, and I like the idea that you're abstracting away
and reducing the friction, you know, of participation in MakerDAO, in in in your DAO, rather. Sorry,
and and I would give them the same advice, and I actually quite like just to co-sign what the doctor
here said. You know, I actually quite like what Zerbris is doing. They've gotten a lot
of positive feedback from larger, maybe less constructive DAOs, you know, in Ethereum and elsewhere.
They said, "Oh, you guys, you guys are doing it right," and I'm glad to see that they're a part
of this and what Intersect is doing. And And I think these this is a good way forward,
rather than just having it be all top down or completely from the bottom up, but unstructured.
You know, a lot of people feel like having some sort of executive function at any kind of level.
Is not decentralization, but Charles is correct when he says, you know,
ultimately a good balance between these two things is decentralization as all of us choosing who
those leaders are going to be, and those leaders can be a DAO. It doesn't have to be one person,
but we all have a choice in participating and contributing to that. And so this feels like
a nice balance to me. And you know, I'm hopeful we can all contribute to it.
I think I think it'll be useful for you to come up with a charter of sort of set goals,
definitions everyone agrees on, right? What these words mean, what these goals are. And then,
then it's just about execution, and and who's better executing than than builders and developers?
So, I think it's just making sure you have one person, one or two people in there,
and kind of just you know herd the cats as it were, and then just set some goals,
and then then you guys are just going to go after it. So I I support this stuff.
I think it's important, and you guys will set standards and and because a lot
of you guys are focused on enterprise adoption, getting real people in here. Everybody here,
I know all these guys, and you know, for example, I remember talking to to Simon from from Cerberus,
and I said, you know, where where we gonna get all this VC money? And he said, well. You know,
we've gotten a lot of interest from non VC types. So these would be hedge funds,
and these would be investors of other types who are not necessarily looking for
aggressive value extraction. There's nothing wrong with these things inherently, but there's
other types of investors that have a long-term view and are also willing to build. You know,
but they they too need direction, as has been said here by Nume and others. They too need help
and and and comfort, particularly going. Into Web3, let alone outside of the ones that they're told
about, which is basically just Bitcoin and Ethereum. And so I think, you know,
I think this DAO could be a good steward for that. So that's my that's my two cents. Yeah,
there's nothing wrong inherently with VCs except for they always want too much of my company. Right.
Exactly. Yeah, but on a on a broader point, I think you're you're so spot on with the need to have
different coordination layers that can be trusted to focus focus on a specific domain. You know,
when you stuff in just the broader governance, it gets lost in the sauce.
So we have a bunch of hands up, John. You've been waiting a while. What's up? Yeah, a couple things.
Like one, you know, Charles was talking about VCs. Molly, my concern with VCs right now is that,
you know, whenever we've talked to VCs, they are they, you know, of course looked at our team
and our project and so on and so forth. But then they also looked at the Cardano ecosystem
and the state of the ecosystem, and you know, that's something that
we didn't necessarily have control over. But you know, their quote-unquote valuation
is going to be part, you know, partly or even mostly based on where they see your ceiling
as a project. In terms of you know the blockchain you're you're building on, even
if you have cross-chain or multi-chain ambitions, so I really think it would be great
if if initiatives like this can help you know increase the the ecosystem metrics
and KPIs because there's just no way that many of us would even want to work with a VC right now
because they're just going to be undervaluing like our our projects, right? The second thing is.
You know, and Logan, you and I have been talking about this this morning. Actually, is
like the the deadlines and everything initially were like a little bit unclear and not.
I don't know if they were really communicated. In a way that that all the builders, you know,
on Cardano could really pay attention to. But I mean, we're we're we're not interested in in funding
for this calendar year, but we would like to be included. You know, my project C swap. You know,
as a voting member, and so I guess the board's going to talk about this next week.
I just think it would be great if. You know, builders could at least join, you know,
to be a part of the conversation, and and you know, be at least allowed to vote, you know. And so,
yeah, I guess that's just my plea to the board that I mean, especially for
this first year when like communication was a little bit like unclear or didn't have the reach that
it might have in the future, you know, to make an exception or or you know, I I honestly think that.
That new members should always be allowed, you know, to join and and hopefully at least vote,
because you know there's a lot of great projects that aren't involved,
and I think it should be inclusive to to all qualified builders on Cardano. So. Yeah,
appreciate that. So yeah, one we can certainly try to do more to announce it. You know,
we tried to get it out there as much as we we could with being a bootstrapped entity.
But to to clarify, like the deadlines were set. Obviously, some people miss them.
We have to have a stable membership for compliance reasons and for smart contract reasons.
So that is why the deadlines are set. Look, in an ideal world, yeah, we can have
membership always open. Builders can flow in if they meet the requirements. That's great.
But in practice, we needed the stable membership. So so that's why that was made. And look,
as I told you over email, we don't have a problem, or I personally don't have a problem
with you coming in as a as a voting member. But it's not a decision that I can make unilaterally,
so we're going to go through the desk processes and and make sure the right decision is made,
which is what what we try to do. But yeah, appreciate you you voicing your concerns,
and we'll do our best to make sure that it's better in the future. Yeah, and John,
I I I love you guys. I love your team. I love C twelve. I think you're a great guy,
and I think you know you had valid concerns. I think that. CBDAO is we are starting out
like we're still in the infancy, and so there is definitely like certain conditions
and requirements we have to set up like at the onset, right? But as we grow and evolve,
and we see this thing through, like at least through one cycle, I think that those conditions are
subject to change, right? And and different requirements are gonna be fluid.
It's nothing's gonna be set in stone. Yeah, we just, I mean, it's just such a critical time
in our growth and. Honestly, what gets us more excited than the funding opportunities is
just the ability to collaborate and have like strategic discussions with our peers, you know.
And we, you know, Intersect wasn't necessarily built for that initially, just because it's
and I mean, everybody could get involved with Intersect, so it was like, you know,
I don't want to say this is exclusive, but it's just like I want to talk. You know, I would love to.
It's more focused. Yeah, I would love to get in a room with other builders
and figure out how we can collaborate and what's needed to like grow these metrics. Because, I mean,
quite frankly, like Catalyst has given out a lot of money over the years to projects,
and it it hasn't resulted in in in growth. You know, for the ecosystem,
there's been some great things that have been accomplished, but You know,
we just we I think that we have a lot to value to add, just in terms of like discussions and so on
and so forth. So, if we can join, you know, as either a voting member or even just like not,
if we don't have to vote, we can just be there to to in the discussions. Like that would be great.
So John, that's you've brought up a really valid point, and I think that's the beauty of CBDAO is
that we can talk about it and we can put put things into into into a structure that can at
least have the majority of people in. Um, like before all of the before the Twitter Spaces,
we always have a thirty minute um meeting and we sit down and we discuss agendas,
and there were lots of great ideas that were kind of pushed out. Talking about
how we could actually extend that, so there might be some this there might there might be some ways
to do that. Of course, because it is a legal entity, we need to just make sure that we clear it
with legal, because there's there's other options such as observer statuses before they become
voting members. So observers will be open to all way all the year all year round,
so people can come in as an observer as long as they meet the requirements of of being in the DAO
itself. So it's not much about exclusivity; it's just about setting the bar, setting the standard,
and once the standard is raised, is Will you, if you want to come in as an observer
or as a voting member, just making sure that you get it done by specific deadlines,
more for legal compliance reasons. So we did take your, we did take what you said into
consideration, and we've we've been thinking about it quite clearly and trying to put into into,
we're trying to think about ways to incorporate your feedback. So that's what I wanted to try
and get across to you today that we're always open to feedback. Like that's the one thing that
we always always want, like constructive feedback. Is what we want, and that you brought up
a very valid point, and it's something that we'll we'll consider. So it's it's it's not.
So don't don't feel like that what you've said doesn't matter. It's just that it does.
We just need to think about it and get together and discuss it, and be be be open about it
about the decision making etc. Because I think Logan basically works because he works on the Dow.
He works in total transparency. So. He has to be quite open, and he can't make
independent decisions. He has to bring it to the entire DAO as well as the board. So it's, he's,
I'm not, I'm not, I don't envy his position, um, and I think he's done a fantastic job right now.
So yeah, so what you said is valid. We're thinking about it. We're trying to put into into
into processes that we can actually alleviate your concern as well. So we're learning
as we go along, and we're getting better at it, from where we were four weeks ago to
where we are now. It's probably. Like miles ahead of what most other organizations
can achieve within a four-week period. Like I haven't seen anybody bootstrap this. Yeah,
and it's like I empathize completely. I empathize with Logan too, and having to manage
all these communications. And then it's like, how are you supposed to get the word out when you're
a brand new Twitter profile and so on and so forth? It's just You know, I don't know. Comms,
comms is tough for even the most established projects, let alone a bootstrap DAO. You know,
that's going to improve over time. You know, I think. For sure. And if it doesn't work out this time
or whatever, then it it can work out next time. And and maybe there can be
some alternative communication or a Discord or something. I just think.
If if builders really get together and figure out how we can solve some of these problems,
that we're all going to be much better off. I think we just all want to see the ecosystem
just grow massively, especially over the next you know this this opportunity we have you know with
the a bull market quote unquote that we're we're most likely entering. So the more
that we can collaborate and work together and brainstorm and bounce ideas off of each other
and and partner up and support one another, the better it's going to be.
And that's really the spirit of Of why you know why I was like well we just want to be involved in
you know some capacity so I have to drop off for another meeting but thank you guys so much
for responding to the feedback and we'll be in touch. Thanks, John. Appreciate it. And yeah,
that's just a core essence of the essence of the DAO is to make sure that you know
all these builders are coming together. But it's not enough for us to just come together.
We have to get everyone's noses pointed in the same direction. So you think about a bot,
like a sled that's being pulled by dogs. If the dogs are pulling in different directions,
it goes nowhere. But if everyone's noses are in the same direction, they get to
where they want to go. So that's what we're doing with KPIs and and whatnot to to track those
and make sure that these are the guiding principles. And we're all there to help each other out
along the way. There's a bunch of hands up. Tyler, you've been on stage a while. What's up, man?
Hey, sorry I didn't I didn't catch the first part of this call, but I thought I'd jump on.
I said popped up, but I'm in the Bitcoin space a little bit more, so I haven't been following
your guys' space quite as much. But I'm more on the energy side of Bitcoin.
Just a little background on on me. I worked at the local power cooperative,
and I think cooperatives, rural electric cooperatives, are essentially a DAO in paper form.
And I would like to possibly get some help by your community to build a rural electric model,
but for Bitcoin mining, because Bitcoin and energy are so tied together.
I just think a separate co-op that is a Bitcoin miner that helps the rural community
get transferred to electric-based heat through Bitcoin mining. And somehow build a DAO around that
based on the same seven principles that the rural electric co-ops are based on,
which is like they got seven core principles that they follow, and you know the bylaws
and the policies are all kind of set a little bit, but kind of mimic that
and tweak things to work for a Bitcoin mining DAO. Hey, that sounds that sounds awesome. In my my,
I'm not like I'm just speaking for the CBDAO, but in my my real role, I run a company that helps
people launch DAOs, so I'm happy to. To chat further on that, and if there's
other builders we can bring in the fold too, let's let's do it. Sweet, yeah,
I would really love to get some of your guys's help. You know, out here in Northeast Wyoming,
where I'm at, Charles actually has his little clinic here. And he's building—he's building all kinds
of stuff here, construction company, and he's buying up half of the town. And just a little history:
Northeast Wyoming is kind of known for its abundance in coal, and so we are the energy capital
of the country, they say. And right now, there's a big demand for power.
I'm also on the board of directors for my local rural Rural electric distribution co-op.
So in the co-op world, energy generation there's generation co-ops, and then there's
distribution co-ops, and so they kind of are separated. So yeah, I I would like to.
Kind of just one of the seven principles of coops is that they cooperate with other coops,
and so I'm looking to maybe get approval from the board of directors that to build this
before we really, before I really go full on building it, because I want to make sure that they'd be
willing to cooperate with something like Bitcoin mining, and you know,
being I'm also a site operations manager for a small five megawatt Bitcoin mining site on grid,
and we're really working with the co-op to. Build a demand response tariff,
and that that is going to be key for efficiency in the energy grid. In my opinion,
Bitcoin mining is energy grid infrastructure that just monetizes every electron produced
and kind of reduces waste and helps balance demand. Because in the energy world,
there's Energy is never created or destroyed; only transferred. So you got to use it right away.
And battery storage is expensive, but when it comes to demand on the power grid,
Bitcoin miners can act as a throttle. As people turn on their lights or start big motors
or whatever, the Bitcoin miners turn off, and so it really helps the efficiency of the energy grid.
Um, and and right now we're going through a big change in the energy grid with some
of the executive orders that President Trump is. Done. We have small nuclear.
Small nuclear is a big topic around here. And being from coal country,
there's a lot of people that are kind of anti-nuclear because they're supported by coal,
and they don't want to see the coal miners die or get starved out. You know. So, yeah, you know,
nuclear waste is definitely a big topic. Our interim committee just had a legislative session
on the discussion of what are we going to do with the nuclear waste, and the Department of Energy
has just recently hired somebody, some scientists from Europe, and he came
and gave a presentation about what their plans are for long-term storage of nuclear waste.
And so this, the Department of Energy has. Horded 50 billion dollars
from the nuclear energy markets. The utilities that are running nuclear have to pay into this fund,
and and it's grown to 50 billion dollars. And they're going to figure out a way to put it
underground. But these small, very cool, very cool. Yeah, they look. There's like four. Yes,
I'm sorry. You're good. You're good. No, it's super interesting stuff.
If there's any type of way that you know I can personally help with the the DAO side of stuff,
just shoot a DM to this account, and and I'll get back to. And I'm excited to to get into the weeds
there. But I know we have another hand up that's been waiting a while. Mike, what's up?
Hey everybody, how y'all doing? I've been a big fan of Cardano for over five years now. Jeez,
and you know, I've been kind of interested in all these projects, invested in most
of these projects. I guess this is more of a question for all the builders out there. You know,
I work at my regular Web two job as like an operations manager for a large financial institution,
right? And like, I mean, you know, if you're an enterprise business, you need you know
an accounting program, right? You usually they have like a bank account
and they have a accounting program and they can do their business out of that to manage
their expenses and everything else, right? I know about Reeves, right?
Reeve is like Cardano Foundation's kind of newly. They say it's launched,
but I went to their website and I don't see a download button or anything.
Is there anybody that's creating an accounting program specifically for Cardano? Because I mean,
if we want transaction volume and we want more enterprise users and people to create nodes,
then you know we need tools for them to be able to run their business. And so,
if we're asking them to move over to this completely other currency, then you know
how are they going to be able to do that without a tool that says, you know, here's how you do it?
Because, you know, if you ask them to create a Cardano wallet, you know,
they're going to have to demystify all the UTXOs and everything. So that was that's just my question
for the room. I might be able to give you a little bit of a heads up. There,
there is a there is a there was a Catalyst proposal by one of my friends. His name is Bano.
He's a he's a CFO. He's actually creating what you're what you're talking about. If you
if you want to get in contact with him, by all means, just DM me. I'll put you guys in contact,
and then you guys can. Talk about all of that. He love he loves that. He lives for that kind
of stuff. So he's actually building that out as part of his catalyst proposal with Adam Dean.
So I got you. Just message me also if you are. Cool. Following you now. Thanks. Nate,
did you have your hand up? Yeah, but uh, I don't. I don't want to sidestep doctors. Yeah,
I think I think Doctor and him got got it worked out. Sounds good. All right, guys.
We're here at the top of the hour. I want to thank everyone for joining.
Another thank you to Charles for joining as well. That was pretty cool.
The most important thing I can say to you is, if you know a D rep, if you delegate to a D rep,
tell them to vote yes on Cardano Builder DAO. We are simply a DAO of all of these proven builders
that have come together with one goal for all of us to increase the metrics,
the KPIs that matter to Cardano, not only for ourselves but also for the broader ecosystem. So yeah,
get out and vote. We'll be back again next week. As I always say, my name is Logan,
and I am on a mission to implement
decentralized governance into the fabric of society. We'll see you next week. See you guys.
