Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Coffee with Captain from @dGenNetwork
Recorded: Dec. 1, 2022 Duration: 2:55:13Space Recording
Full Transcription
GM, GM, we'll get rolling here in a minute. Thank you. GM, everyone. Thanks for joining.
Steve will be jumping on here soon.
I think there's always the chance it is conference week.
He is in Miami at Art Basel. So he may have, uh, I actually,
I think I vividly remember now that I say this, I'm saying this out loud.
I think I saw his last tweet was like, he'd been out,
had a long day and then was still was still going out again later or something. So there's a chance Steve may not
have his vocal exercises in yet, but I'm going to go grab a couple links here. We'll get rolling
with or without Steve, although I do expect him. And I'm catching up a little bit. I was supposed
to be on the road already,
but, uh, got, got a little distracted by good morning America this morning. First time I've
watched that show in maybe 20 years. Um, I can't even remember like what I would have watched the
last time I watched good morning America. But, uh, if you somehow missed it, SPF was
on good morning America this morning. It's like, like, could you imagine,
could you imagine like Bernie Madoff going on a media tour after America this morning. It's like, could you imagine Bernie Madoff
going on a media tour after he got busted?
This is just mind-blowing to me,
but I digress.
GM, sir.
Uh-oh.
Check, check. I think people can hear me. Can I get an emoji just for a confirmation? uh-oh check check
I think people can hear me can I get an emoji
just for a confirmation because I got nothing
from Steve
we lost him already
take two
Vicky I think you can hear me right now I can hear you. Now I can hear you.
Oh, hey. I heard you when I popped in. And then as soon as I popped up, I couldn't hear a word
you're saying. I'm like, all right, we need to fix this. Because if there's one person I need
to hear, it's definitely you so that we can converse. You know what? At least we've gotten
pretty good at troubleshooting, I feel.
Even like I say this, I'm probably going to jinx myself, but we've become somewhat rug-resistant.
I feel like I can get connected enough.
Oh, wow.
That is challenging the heavens right there, Cap.
That is hubris of the highest order.
I feel like we got rugged yesterday and like completely like my phone
just shut down Twitter,
like the Twitter app shut down and I was able to get back in the space before
punter even realized I was gone.
I think,
I think because I obviously wasn't there,
but as I started talking,
he's like,
Oh wow.
I was,
he's like,
I got to be a better co-host.
I kid.
Cause he did a phenomenal job yesterday, but I'm pretty sure I got rugged. Twitter
completely shut down and I'm back in connected as a, as a host before, before punter even realized
I was gone. Although I say all this, I like, if there's an AI bot out there that can track a number
of words spoken on a space might have been a
might have been a new PR for me
yesterday. I had to
to punter's point, I had to work a little bit harder
Steve.
That's a
that's a function of
it's a function of
I come built in with that function ever since I was a
kid. So
it's all good, man.
We all got to work a little harder when Steve's not around.
Sorry, Steve.
Sorry to step on you.
But, yeah, Cap, it was like 10-second pause, and I was just like –
I should have been like, am I rugging or is he – that's what Steve always does.
Am I rugging or is he rugging?
And not only were you rugging, you were just gone.
So that was pretty wild there.
Sorry, I had to just chime in on that.
No, I'm already a mess this morning too i just accidentally i sat down and closed the tab with like my share out that i have pre-planned on my computer so we're off to a swimming start um
well speaking of i i gotta check me i am i've pulled out the wired this the nft bark wired
uh airpods today so they're not even called AirPods.
Wired headphones?
Is that what you call the white wired appled ones?
The things that go in your ear
that you can listen to and talk through?
Yes, those would be headphones.
Headphones.
So AirPods are only the wireless variant.
These headphones are new for me.
So if they fall out or if I don't sound, you know, if I'm cutting out, you have to let me know
also will be mobile and, and driving today, which is, um, I think we'll be fine. I, like I shouldn't,
I definitely should not have even mentioned the rugging since I'm going to be, um, on the road
today. However, um, Steve, I, I can't speak for you. I don't know what your
morning looks like, but once I actually do get on the road here, uh, I may, you know, I'm, I'm open
today. I'm the PTO day. And, uh, I could, I could potentially pull off a marathon show if anyone
wants to hang out with me while I drive the four hours to Miami. So, so I have coffee at 10 15 with,
um, I don't know. I said it on the show with Juan from Boardroom Ventures, who's awesome.
Him and Josh Ong started a company that they've been doing consulting with.
So I'll probably be in an Uber or a Lyft or some sort of form of transportation at like 945 if we're still going.
So I could probably do it from the road
till like 10 15 but it'll be amazing if like you did it one if we have one of those marathons and
you just did it from the road and uh like i finished coffee with juan and it's like you know
11 30 and you're still here we'll see maybe i i also kind of selfishly enjoy getting to listen
into some of these other spaces uh that, that I don't get to during
most weekdays. So I may, uh, I may just, we may cut it at 10, 10, 15 and I go in listener mode
the rest of the way, but yeah, should be a good one. Yesterday's conversation was great. It was
awesome. Like shout out to Kevin. Uh, he's been extremely generous with his time and, and it was
awesome to hear his perspective after the big
year the big day of doxing for uh 2022 i'm curious first of all i assume flight went well and safe
travels all that uh all the good stuff doing well enjoyed the first night of miami no it was great
uh honestly uh i'll get into it a little bit more as we go because actually uh shout out i see i see
ak stevie in Stevie in the audience.
We were hanging out last night and she had a quote that keeps ringing in my head about the great undoxing or the great self-doxing of 2022 that I'll share.
But no, flight was good outside of my first leg of my flight.
There were some ladies behind me that I don't know if they realize that yelping and then
having nervous laugh discussions
every time we have turbulence doesn't cause the turbulence to stop. It just causes everybody else
on the plane to have a tough ride. So that part was a little rough because it was a pretty turbulent
flight. Like it was one of those flights where like the flight attendants didn't get up to,
to like, you know, serve beverages and stuff like that which i've also heard from
people i've met who are flight attendants who are like yeah if it's a little choppy it's a
good excuse for us to be able to just chill and enjoy the plane um but uh yeah like outside of
that it was the one from jfk to miami was pretty uneventful um i got like an hour of sleep and
then listened to coffee with captain with y'all y'all did a great job i thought kevin's kevin telling the story of of uh him and frank and everything kevin's actually kind of becoming
a coffee with captain regular which um you know is is really nice so so yeah so no that was that
was kind of like the morning yesterday but um yeah it was it was it was a nice little uh it was a
nice little trip and we you know we'll talk more about it as we um you know we'll talk
more about it as the room warms up but um I was telling people uh we do have a live coffee with
captain uh tomorrow so we'll give the details on that in a little bit that's exciting came together
sort of last minute shout out to Peter Fang uh excited about that uh tomorrow should be a crazy
day so so yeah so it was uh but I'll give the details on the day but it was a good day today
like when Steve says it came together
last minute we're like
90% of the way there so
we will absolutely see everyone tomorrow morning
at 8am
we'll have Cuban coffee
some coladas we'll have
some Cuban breakfast and
the rest
of the details we're going to figure out we're going to figure out this afternoon but yeah we'll have some Cuban breakfast and the rest of the details we're going to figure out.
We're going to figure out this afternoon.
But yeah, we'll have some fun.
Whether you register or Steve checks your IDs at the door to be determined.
And maybe we get, I don't know, maybe Fawn shows up today and just like miraculously
bails us out with some token proof app or that wouldn't work either.
Never mind.
I don't know.
But we will sort out the logistics. It'll be very low tech uh but but high vibes how about that yeah in the future we
definitely need to have our uh have our have our act together as far as the live thing steve has
promised a po app full disclosure at this point it looks like probably 70 80 chance that the po
app will either be designed by steve's photoshopping skills or or
some ai generator um so just yeah don't it's probably carries very little collectability
value but um we will have a po app promised by steve yeah that was well yeah there we go i was
gonna add that was gonna be the next question uh basically djn team meeting here um did anybody
design the graphic looks Looks like no.
When we say we're 90% there, this was exactly where I was going with this.
It was a little passive-aggressively transparent team meeting in front of Bunch and Steve because we haven't connected on these final few details.
So, yeah, there we are. We don't have a design for our PO-OP. If anyone wants to contribute that this morning, we would love to give someone some credit and some recognition for the design. There might be like two people show up since we haven't told anyone where the location's at yet, but we would definitely proudly promote your work to those two or three individuals who do show tomorrow at 8 a.m.
three individuals who do show tomorrow at 8 a.m.
I mean, I think we're going to have a turnout.
I did actually sneak the location into the DJ Network War Room
in the Basel event.
So just to give you kind of a quick recap of my Basel day yesterday,
it was actually quite nice.
I've never been to Miami, so that was – this is, first of all, a change.
Have you had Kalata yet?
I have not. i'm probably gonna grab
one maybe with with juan in a little bit because i'm gonna make some um hotel room coffee here
r.i.p my neighbors in the hotel by the way just because um you know these poor people i remember
actually one of the funny stories from nftnyc i don't know if you remember this it was like
one of those mornings when like all of our voices were scratchy and we're out really late and i uh keep fishing comes on stage and he's like i woke up because i could
hear steve talking apparently we're neighbors in their hotel room so i keep fishing had the hotel
room next to mine um and i know the walls are relatively thin here because i could hear
someone's tv this morning so at least they're up but steve does not have an steve does not have an
indoor voice and i sense his voice his outdoor, is even amplified at least two or three notches when he gets on his spaces.
Oh, it's bad.
I mean, like, I was telling someone at this, I'll get into it, but I was at a sort of like a little impromptu proof group meetup thing last night that happened with the team and a few other people.
proof group meetup thing last night that happened with the team and a few other people.
And I was talking to Will on the proof team, great guy. And he was like, you know, and I realized
he was like, someone came in to meet him. They're like, I could hear you like from a mile away. I'm
like, you know what, Will, you know why I like you? I realized like neither of us have an indoor
voice. Like everybody in this bar can hear our entire conversation um so it was it was uh because i remember just as a
as a quick story when my um when my daughter was in kindergarten her teacher was like she's great
she's so sweet she's nice to other kids um because my daughter is the like i just i'm not saying she's
my daughter her teachers her friends her family or anybody will tell you she's the sweetest they're
like but god she just you know she needs to work on her
indoor voice and i was like oh mrs f that's not gonna happen you've been talking to me for 10
minutes now you know what's happening here um so god bless her soul but she's another one without
one so you know it's born um see if yeah everyone knows the old song steve you hear him before you
see him at any event yeah that's my um that's a quote from
my it's funny you said I know because I actually think that was one that I I had uh I I think I
had actually brought a get put that one on myself because my um uh my old boss used to say that um
at ding bingo card progressive um she used to say like you know Steve you'll hear him before you see
him so um but yeah anyway but yeah yesterday was was great um you know just to give you like a rundown of like
yesterday and sort of some stuff we have going on today and tomorrow we'll definitely talk about
where cap and i'll be because we definitely want to meet up with some people um yesterday i got in
from the flight uh came back to the hotel room showeredered, immediately headed down to Drew Barman's event.
As always, Drew Barman throws an amazing event.
And there were so many people there that I knew.
There's a ton of people from the DJ Network War Room there.
There's probably like a dozen plus from the DJ Network War Room there.
Saw J-Brush, J-Brush is on stage, Manny Dark, Suarez.
I always say his name WFNY because it's a long story.
I explained to him why last night.
So, you know, King Squalo, like so many people were out there last night.
Lou, our new salesperson.
So that was great.
So it was just nice to kind of meet people from the DJ Network War Room out there.
James Costa, Clubhouse Archives, obviously.
Also a ton of on-chain monkey people because they co-sponsored the event.
And then also just a ton of proof people.
And that's actually where my night sort of started because out of nowhere, I'm like talking to people
and like Justin Mizell gives me a quick like tap on the shoulder.
I didn't even know he was there and he goes,
hey, I need to go for a dinner with the team,
but I'll send you a DM later to see what you're doing.
So ended up, you know, going back to my hotel room,
did a thing
for i know bunch you mentioned i'm working with starbucks with with him a little bit so um did a
thing with a quick starbucks uh thing at uh last night and then went back out and um ended up kind
of we allowed to talk about that by the way i should have asked i was a little late tuning in
and i don't know if you're able to to even even give the TLDR on that or is that? No,
not too much alpha,
but it was just some stuff that we're working on.
You know,
behind the scenes on some things.
I feel like there's a lot of like low key humble brags this morning,
Steve.
Yeah.
I can't,
I don't know.
We, we gave like,
you know,
I actually hadn't even mentioned I was working there,
but I know a bunch kind of said like,
Hey,
Steve's working with us a little bit.
So that,
and a couple other work things I needed to get done last night.
So I actually went to a Drew Barman event and I didn't have a single drink, which is like just sad.
But but I came back and got some work done.
And then, yeah, I ended up meeting up with, you know, some folks on the proof team, some friends and family in that group.
Riggs came with me out there. And yeah, it was it was a good time.
Got to like, you know, chat. And like I said, I spent the majority of the night actually chatting with Will, who I had not met before on
that team. And he was, you know, just super good vibes and energy, but you know, Stevie and Justin
and, you know, Kevin and Harry talked to Harry for a bit, who we had on the show. She was,
she was great. You know, big, big fan of her and her work and what she's doing. So yeah, I mean,
it was, it was, it was awesome. I mean, it was definitely, um, you know, a good night, good first night. Uh, Riggs and I took a, uh, I need to connect
with Riggs about something actually after, cause Riggs and I then took a, an Uber to an event that
was, there was some confusion with getting in. So we ended up not getting in, which was actually
perfect. Cause by then it was like one in the morning and I was, it's good that I got back.
Cause I don't think I would be this spry if I
got into that event so um so yeah so that was good um you know it was definitely a nice first
night and I think the power of IRL is something that you know people talked about a little bit
yesterday but um you know definitely looking forward to you know rolling through today I
don't know cap if uh you know any any thoughts on anything that happened yesterday you missed
the Drew Barman event that's probably the biggest uh the biggest fomo you're gonna have
right yeah i was bummed about that um a couple events i was hoping to get into we'd love to see
but just couldn't couldn't quite get there um we did kind of just fly right over and i'm fine
bypassing it uh i'm just curious did you watch that Good Morning America this morning? No, I missed GMA.
I woke up spontaneously at like 7.20 before my alarm went off,
so I've gotten programmed by this show.
But no, I did not.
I did not check it.
Did they have SPF on?
Yeah.
God, no, geez.
It's just like, I don't know.
I'm really struggling with it.
I think I sweat out like I've never seen anything so corrupt in my life.
I just can't fathom that this is, yeah.
The fact that he's doing a mediator right now is my body.
Now, all that said, allegedly, he's doing this on his own
against the advice of his counsel and his attorneys.
So maybe this is just going to be an interesting chapter in the book someday. And it ends up playing out like it should, but I am, uh, I don't know.
I'm still just a little in shock. I'm certainly not a, uh, not a prosecutor
or don't, don't have any inside knowledge, but I just, it's hard for me to
believe this guy is, I just watch him conduct interview on good morning
America when it's just, I don't know.
Bunch, you watched it, I think. Any comments?
He was just blatantly bad. He couldn't answer the question. He wouldn't answer the question.
And I thought the interviewer did a good job of kind of pressing him where, like, the New York Times thing yesterday. I don't think he got pressed when he skirted the question.
And today.
We said, yeah, you didn't answer the question, right?
Yeah. Today he said it multiple times.
And then he even went back to it at the very end.
It was like, hey, you know, I know we've covered this, but this is really a yes or no question.
And he still didn't even say yes or no.
He kind of said, I had no.
I don't know if i knew or something so uh so i thought he i mean he just continues to look like an idiot so
it you know as as frustrating as they are to watch like he's burying himself i think so um
you know that was my yeah agreed it just it's's, it feels like just the word that comes to mind is like,
I used to hear like this, uh, I think it was originally with like Steve jobs,
like this reality distortion field and Elon probably lives in that world.
Sometimes it's like, that's like, I think he is just
completely distorted from reality. And difference is steve thought he could build
you know a world-changing device elon wants to put people on mars this guy is distorted about
stealing billions of dollars from his customers like it's just what's what's interesting about
him though is like i i've talked to a couple people who don't i wouldn't say know him but have met
with him on multiple occasions i actually talked with people who well i won't say how because i
don't want to like getting anything but like i i talked after after he hung out with justin last
night he was kicking it with bit boys what he's saying um but uh no the uh the i talked to somebody
who knew i actually think he might have been hanging out with BitBoy at this point.
That was, that was, it wasn't, it wasn't BitBoy.
It was, it was, it was somebody you wouldn't expect to, uh, to actually,
I see, I'm going to sound like more of an asshole.
Cause I was going to say, I've actually talked to two people who've interacted
with him now.
Maybe, maybe we go one step further and it's not just bubbles with NFT Bark.
It's bubbles with Bark and BitBoy.
I started to like
have this thought where i think it was morgan uh who said i was the forrest gump of web3 at some
point because like i don't i don't really think of me knowing a lot of people but then like when i
was at like drew's party for example there's like a lot of people i was like just so excited to see
and like i'm just again like i am a human version of a Labrador retriever. I just walk up and wag my tail when I see somebody I know, and I get really pumped
about it. You know, it's like, it's like my, my, my dog, when my mom comes over and he's like,
grandma's here, my whole butt's waggy. Let me go get her a toy. So that's kind of how I am with
humans I meet in person. So, um, anyway, I talked to somebody who a couple of people who know,
or have met with SPF and they're're like, a couple of them had said,
they think that it's not as cut and dry as he's just this sociopathic person, to your point,
almost like the way Bunch described
as being disconnected with reality.
They all said to a person, to two people, I suppose,
that he's one of the smartest people,
if not the smartest person they've ever met.
And these people I'm talking about are not like slouches you know anybody who's working around in web 3
but like they also said that like he might have like a messiah complex to some degree
um where he feels like he thinks basically i'm the one who can save this whole thing
um you know almost like like when they talked about like there's this back door that only
spf could use that could get like the money out. And they're like, that wasn't to rob the money.
That's more probably because he feels in his honest heart of hearts that he can save this
whole thing. And everybody else is not an idiot, but he's the one who can do it. Like, you know,
like he was concerned after the fact, and we saw this where he wasn't concerned with like the
terrible thing he had done he was sitting there
thinking i just need access to liquidity to trade more so i can bring this thing back so i think
there is something to that degree where it's not necessarily that he's this he's drain yeah i don't
want to call him a dgen it's insulting to the word to the for the rest of us like he is just he is a
um i don't know like i i'm i'm i like i need a palate cleanser we need to get Gentle Tornado up here or someone to change my
I'm sorry for going there
it's making me angry
as you know I'm an aspiring stoic
but I'm definitely not perfect
and this is one that it's really
for something that is outside of my control
it's got to me on multiple occasions
I'm not going to break down and cry
but it's made me
I'm sorry that was mean it's made me, I'm sorry, that was mean.
It's made me angry, though.
I don't, I just, it's like, it's certain times, like, I'm fine.
And then, like, just thinking about it this morning and hearing him talk, I'm like, it's
like, I want to punch him in the face.
And I don't think I've ever said that about anyone in my entire life.
And I lost no money here.
It's just, yeah.
I want to punch Jim Harbaugh in the face, maybe.
I can think of some others.
But like, and I'm a pretty passive guy who's actually, I mean, honestly, I never, there's
actually not a lot of humans I want to punch in the face, but SVF probably does hit that
short list.
But no, it's an infuriating story to follow.
It's like real people lost real money.
And I think that's what's making me so angry too is following the story it's more of like how the
story is being handled and and what we're like how we're watching this go down and sure I get
like you gotta like an investigation takes time there's an investigation but come on man like
there's there can't be too many more pressing things for like this is like an all hands on
deck let's get to the bottom of this shit and uh and take some action yeah no I I saw like there's like the there's like a meme and i saw actually popped up my timeline because
you liked it where it was like you know uh congress insider trading and it's like sort of
somebody not looking the other way and it was like you know sbf you know rugging you know people
millions of dollars and it's like a person looking the other way and then it was like my 600 dollar
venmo payment my 600 dollar venmo payment and it's like irs is like looking with like a microscope or something and it's so true
i mean it is it is frustrating that it's like i am any crypto taxes are certainly flagged now by
the way oh i i mean look i'm doing it all above board but like no i'm just saying because we're
discussing it on a live audio space that's unless unless got some block in play, we're probably both due for an audit next year.
Oh, yeah, which will be fun because those are really expensive.
In fact, I may just Venmo use $601 now just for the bit.
That would be great if we both ended up Tedante's Coffee with Captain live from prison.
But, like, no, we, the, yeah, the, like, you um we the um yeah the the like you know i'm
doing the like crypto taxing straight off but it's like crazy how many hoops i'm jumping through
and i think about like someone like sbf who's literally going on good morning america which
good morning america should have him and i need to watch it and it sounds like they actually did
ask him some tough questions which i feel good about but it's like man like, man, like, it's like, you see, and, you know,
if you're a media, like, we have the opportunity to have him on the show.
We should.
And we should ask those questions, right?
But, like, at the same time, you know, if he's not answering them
and other media is not really, like, covering it through,
it's just, it's very strange.
But, yeah, I don't know.
Like, it's a saga that's going to be so interesting to follow because watching it play out in real time and living through it is one of the weirder experiences I've had.
Because I feel like when you read about things like this or when I've read about or seen things like this, I didn't live them.
Even the financial crisis, I know the economy tanked. I in the you know housing market uh housing industry at the
time so like I didn't watch all that go down so uh it's it's just interesting being like this close
to it bunch GM go ahead I feel like it like us watching it and uh you know just the reaction to
his body language and his answers and all this stuff. It seems to me it's so blatantly obvious that he's kind of skirting questions.
He's not being direct.
He's trying to do all, like, he's jumping through hoops
to make himself kind of look like a victim, like it was just, oh, my bad.
But then you have, I just put up in the top,
like, you got Bill Ackman last night tweeting that he believes him.
And then you got Kevin O'Leary here also agreeing that.
And he's like, oh, man, you know, I'm in the Bill Ackman camp.
The poor kid.
Oh, it happens to the best of us.
Keep going.
And it's just so infuriating to catch a point about how it's being covered.
And like, you know, just who's kind of covering for him.
It's just insane.
So I heard I don't I'm certainly not an attorney. Dan is not my attorney. Uh, and I can't
put him on the spot here. Um, I know we have hands, but I want to, I want to just hit on this
one for a second. And if anyone has more, a better understanding, because one thing I,
I did hear now, this is, this is, again, it's corrupt if this is the case, but a theory as to why
people like Kevin O'Leary and certainly some politicians, anyone who received contributions
from FTX or SBF, the reason that they, a motive to be downplaying the situation and to be almost take sides with him is to is is as this bankruptcy
progresses the they the the treasure they could absolutely go back and do clawbacks to those who
who who and i don't know the terms maybe dan can bail me out here but but like it's not it's not
conversion i don't think but they're like they received like the equivalent of stolen funds.
Right.
And the, the, the bankruptcy could go back and claw back those from these individuals.
Before we go to, go to Dan, cause I saw his hand shoot up about this and Dan will maybe
tell me that I'm crazy.
Cause this is, you know how the law works, but like, not only is that fucking immoral,
like I would think you want to do the opposite.
Like when you like like again like
go back to let's go back to irs stuff right beto am i saying it right a rook beta work he gave a
million dollars back so so i agree with you they should anyone who received funding should
absolutely refund like work with the work with the bankruptcy courts and and give it back like
that's the opposite correct i'm gonna interrupt you and
and call you out here because that guy's last name is my last name and you don't know how to pronounce
it yeah this is this is also a true story we were texting this week in in in a text reference jo
and i replied jo question mark oh god cap it's just yeah Cap's like what's that guy's name
Benny O'Reilly
maybe I'm like you mean Beto O'Reilly
I think I probably knew Chamber
maybe a year
before I knew his real name was Chad
I'm like no exaggeration it might have been
a full 12 months before it might have been longer
than 12 months before I realized his real name was
Chad the great doxing goes on. Yeah, it's definitely. Oh, is he not public? Did I just
doxing? No, no. Chambers out there is Chad. I don't know if his last name's out there,
but you didn't say that part. So I think you're I think you're good. Well, would it surprise you
that I have no idea what his last name is oh i really oh god no this
isn't true this isn't true i was gonna say you do i'm absolutely yes i've absolutely seen his last
name but i'm gonna i would have to pull it up to to actually yeah i can't think of it right now
this is true yeah i was oh i uh because i was gonna say you do our contract so i hope you've
seen uh chamber's last name but um before we go to dan yeah like i because i uh because i was gonna say you do our contract so i hope you've seen uh chamber's
last name but um before we go to dan yeah like i because i do want to go i want to get like the
legal perspective yeah i i will say this like to me um i'm trying to figure out which one of these
things has access to can we're pro too so i can multitask and do a live coffee with captain thing
while we're live on coffee with captain um but yeah i mean the thing to me is like i like i think
about like the irs
and like every conversation i've had with apparently neither of them are in camera pro
see i need to reach out to our friend chad chamber um but everything that i've seen with um
everything that i've seen with like the irs was like look crypto is like a weird thing to do taxes
around they're like but if you show a good faith effort that's what they care about right because
they're going to be like look if you mess something up they're going to be a lot more
forgiving if like you you tried right versus just being like i'm not going to do this and i think
similarly like if i'm kevin o'leary like i'm not saying like i believe sbf he's great like i
understand i know they've met him and they're enamored by him but this feels this feels like
elizabeth holmes 2.0 where to the very end
when it was clearly obviously she was scamming people uh people still were you know people still
were you know defending elizabeth holmes actually my my sister-in-law um is friends with the person
who wrote bad blood which you know the the you know when the guy was whistleblowing and that
whistleblower seems ty name's Tyler something,
he actually spoke at Progressive as well.
And it's like, he would talk about how people were enamored with this.
She was so charismatic or just endearing to people
and so smart that they just would believe anything she said.
And I just wonder if these really smart people are still siding with him.
But I would be doing the opposite.
I would be dissing myself. I would be giving money back, like our boy beto o'rourke as his name is pronounced but i want
to go down to dan and he can tell me if i am just like way off legally he's like steve you would be
in prison forever well i can't say forever steve good morning by the way and welcome to miami
sorry the weather's kind of crappy right now um I was walking my dog in the snow the other day. The weather is just fine.
I mean, it's a little cloudy for us this morning.
Sorry about that. And before I jump in here, by the way,
if you guys need any help getting this thing set up tomorrow,
obviously you're on my home turf, so just shoot me a note.
I'll do whatever I can to help you guys out to, you know, smooth things and get it going.
And the standard disclaimers, I'm a lawyer. I'm not your lawyer. None of this is financial advice.
And to be very clear, I cannot comment on FTX for obvious reasons.
So this is just general, general comment based on wearing my hat as a law professor at the University of Miami School of Law.
When it comes to Mr. Wonderful, you should probably check into his background a little bit.
He has had some issues, I will say, somewhat similar to what is alleged to have occurred at FTX with some of his funds,
where he had kind of been mislabeling payouts as return of
capital and things like that. So there may be a little, you know, a little bit of, what's the
word I'm looking for? Honor Among Thieves there with kind of where he's at. Really the whole
Shark Tank thing. And I've publicly battled with Shark Tank a couple
times. You know, it's a TV show, right? They're paid actors. They get paid for their appearance
on the show. And there's a lot that goes on there behind the scenes. So with respect to him, yeah.
Now, speaking just generally, yeah, you are correct. From a legal standpoint in bankruptcy law, you can look to claw back.
You can look to claw back assets.
And again, I'm not speaking about FTX.
I'm speaking generally here.
But if you look at any Ponzi schemes or any other massive frauds, whether it's Enron,
whether it's there was a guy down here called Scott Rothstein who ran what was essentially a Ponzi scheme law
firm or any of the other, you know, Bernie Madoff or any of the other ones, you'll see these people
come in and start filing lawsuits. When I say these people, I mean the receiver or the court
appointed, court appointed trustee or whatever it happens to be called in that procedure.
And they start going out and suing people and they create the, you know, the victim's fund or
whatever it winds up being called, but you get the concept, get it depends on the case,
the matter, and they go out and they try to claw the money back. So there, there is,
that is what happens. It's really complicated. I can't say what is going to happen with respect
to anything in this space, whether it's FTX, whether it's BlockFi, whether it's any of the other entities that have gone under.
But that is legally what is available and what can happen.
And we've seen it happen time and time again.
The only other thing I'll add is just don't underestimate the psychology at play
and how hard it is to say that you're wrong.
It's really difficult for people to admit they're wrong.
And so when you see people out there pumping things up against all contrary evidence, it's
tough to admit to being wrong. So I'll turn it back over here other than to say, if you guys
need, between you and O'Rourke or O'Rique or whatever we call them, I won't be either of your divorce lawyers there in that breakup.
So, but I can help you guys find somebody if you need to.
I hope you work it out, though.
It's incredible.
It's amazing.
I thought I heard that in the instance of the Bernie Madoff case, it was something like close to 70% of funds were recovered, largely through clawbacks and similar, albeit different.
But does that sound right?
Is that way off?
Yeah, that sounds about right to me.
I've got it somewhere in my files. I will, um, I will, when I get back to my computer, I actually just dropped my son off at school and I'm driving home through all the traffic that you guys have created. I feel like I need to start being old man, get off my lawn here. Um, but it's, um, yeah, it was something like that. I want to say that that's about average. Um, you know, down here we have a lot of Ponzi schemes.
So in my 20-ish years living in Miami, I've seen a lot of these happen.
And I want to say like 70%, 75% sounds about right.
It's so interesting.
There's another comment, by the way.
And by the way, it does as a solid if in the comments you can just drop a GM or say what's up or do any questions.
We're definitely going to try to get through questions.
I see, you know.
Yeah, we probably did our biggest concurrent listener group yesterday with Punter pumping our bags for once.
So we may have to, we may just have to like enroll Punter as like our, give us like an introduction or something.
He called us out.
He said,
we do a poor job of it.
And he,
he nailed it.
And then 250 people showed up.
Well,
that's,
I mean,
that's a thing.
Like the comments definitely affect things.
and I want to get through reading them more because not everyone can make it
on stage.
And actually Mario long tin.
ETH sent a one down there and said,
from a psychological view,
human nature is to defend.
Whoever makes you money can give you power slash increase your quality of life.
We've seen this with NFT founders.
Good point.
Now we're seeing it on a larger scale.
In truth, it just exposes people who's real and who's not.
It's a really good comment, Mario. And I think that's just, you know, something that, you know, as we continue to navigate
this wild world, it's like, you know, I'm learning that not everybody is going to I just I couldn't live with myself in those situations.
Like, I don't know, like, I read stories and hear about people who are like scammers, allegedly scammers, and you don't know what's true and what's not who has an agenda, but it's like, I don't know. Like I couldn't imagine doing something that hurts other people and then just
continuing to double down for any reason. It's just, it's, it's wild to me,
but yeah, well before I go to punter, I will do the, again, the, you know,
just in honor of punter,
who I think is one of the people who rightfully tells us we need to do a
better job of this. You know, you know,
thanks for coming this morning, Coffee with Captain.
Run this thing back every Monday through Friday at 8 a.m.
You know, I know we have a lot of regulars in here.
If you don't mind commenting even just a GM down in the bottom right-hand corner today and every day,
just because it definitely helps get the space going.
I know Twitter algo favors those little bottom right-hand corner comments on the thing.
And retweeting, even just liking the space that's down there
would be awesome and help us out.
So I appreciate everyone stopping by this morning.
But I do want to throw to Punter and let him –
I know we had some hands up, but definitely let him cut the line,
especially after he gave his time so graciously.
Yesterday, Punter, Sir GM.
GM, GM.
Yeah, I realize how much hard work you put in every day, Steve,
when I'm helping out up there because you've got to manage the show,
you've got to listen to comments, you've got to help people get up.
So, yeah, thanks for putting faith in me, Cap, to have me on the co-host.
And I think he realized that I usually multitask
or have to pivot in the background at least once or twice most shows.
And he picked up on those, you know, any...
The cues.
The cues.
You listen for the cues.
Yeah, he took them around with it.
I mean, that part I always knew.
I just didn't know that I was, you know, juggling plates
and balancing a ball on my nose like a circus bear, you know,
while Steve has to do that while you're doing that.
But just real quick, with regards to the retweeting thing, the space,
one thing I realized about Coffee with Captain is it's really a show that happens in two parts. And I realized this when we had Justin on the other day. And I think just refreshing the
space and retweeting it halfway through, just to be like, hey, we have a frigging amazing guest.
The show started at eight. We're an hour and a half or an hour in, and we have an amazing guest
coming up. It's just going to help people that may have woken up a little bit later or not know, you know,
not know who's what's going on, like that pops up in their feed and they join us. So that's really
my mentality with all that. Just real quick on SBF. You know, I've tried to tune it out a little
bit. I hate to see people losing money. I hate to see people coming to his aid and his support now.
And I think Bunch touched on that. So I don't need to go down that path.
I'm just really disheartened because the people that want to build this space,
it's just a black eye across crypto.
And for those of us showing up every day trying to grow this space,
it's just something we're going to have to live with for a while,
and it just bums me out. That's my take.
That's a good take.
That's the thing. I's a good take. I mean, it's, it's, that's the thing. It's like, you know, I want to, I want to run around hands.
I do want to hit on some doxing thoughts I had yesterday in a little bit and
get through, you know, some of the,
some of the fun stuff going on in Miami for sure. And cap,
I'm just going to go ahead and say too, before we, you know, since, you know,
it's, I have to go after this to a coffee thing and then we'll, who knows what's going to happen and when we'll get this thing out.
So for people who don't know the live coffee with Captain Tomorrow, I'm just going to give
the location now since we have a, you know, rooms warming up a little bit.
It's at the same event that Other Block 8 Basil is going to be at that Peter Fang is
doing.
So it's a place called Fun Dimension, uh, 2129
Northwest First Court. So we'll put the address out in a little bit. Um, you know, just it's at
the same location as other block though, uh, at 8am tomorrow. Um, just because I may not get to
that editing, I'm trying to get access to the Canva Pro so I can stitch something together and,
uh, you know, just let people know where we're going to be. But I talked to some people yesterday
who were in the, um, you know, who were in the, from DGEN,
and I put it in the DGEN Network Discord.
So I want to let people know,
fun dimensions where we're going to be tomorrow at 8 a.m.
But yeah, Puncher, I'm with you.
I want to keep running around to hands.
Let's go down to, oh, good.
Hey, Steve.
Good, Dan.
Yeah, and I'm sorry,
just for the local knowledge thing.
I don't know if anybody's ever been there, but for people who plan to show up, it's going to look like you're in the middle of a warehouse. It is actually the place you're supposed to be. That's that's an issue.
And I've tried to meet people there just the other day because we go there and play all the time with my kid.
I had some people be like, oh, no, no, that can't be the right place.
So just just know it looks like you might get murdered.
You're at the right spot.
That's a that's quite welcome to Miami.
Yeah, I'm serious.
Right. You can drive through a whole bunch of like a homeless encampment and it's the
place is cool, but just don't get don't think that you're in the wrong spot.
I just want to make sure if anybody wants is planning to show up, don't get don't think that you're in the wrong spot uh i just want to make sure if
anybody wants is planning to show up don't be uh turned off by don't think you're in the wrong spot
the address is right it's there that that's you're you're you're in the right spot uh just walk in
great well i will um i will definitely man this sounds a, this sounds like a setup right now.
Like we're just about to get absolutely anyway, but no, that's, that's good.
I'm glad, you know, like the good, definitely good tip from,
from a local Miami and I, I do like it quite a bit down here so far,
at least compared to, like I said, I was walking my dog in the snow. So,
so good stuff, but let's go to, I know Jay Brown,
you've had your hand up for a while. Let's go Jay Brown.
Then we'll go Eric and then we'll,
we'll keep running through topics this morning.
As always, please retweet the room and send those comments.
Good morning, Captain. Good morning, Steve. Long time to talk to you, bud.
Two things. First thing, I think with SBF, I think what they're trying to do is muddy the waters.
And maybe Dan can touch on this, but i think as much as we talk about it amongst
ourselves and and and try to come to conclusions or so on and so forth mostly just let him do the
talking and follow the money because a lot of people got hurt with this and the more that
we take it into not not necessarily saying we but the more that people take it into this could
have happened this could have happened that could happen so on and so forth it mudders the water and it's some kind of way because if you look at
his interviews you can ask him 20 million questions the answers are all the same they don't change
they might change fundamentally but basically they're the same answer i didn't know um i didn't
have access to that there's no way bro it's just simply no way so giving the money back is probably
the right thing to do but a lot of people are going to try to distance themselves so the shit doesn't stick to them
and that's just what it is and the second thing is is that i haven't talked to you guys since
you all were promoting the nyc thing i just wanted to come in i'm making my rounds this
morning i'm doing a retail investor silent protest space at 11 o'clock and i'd appreciate
if you guys come so that's why i sat quietly didn't say a word just read the room and enjoyed the space because like
i said we're all on the same goal this helps us as much as we trying to help so thank you for
having me on coffee with captain i appreciate you guys no appreciate you j brown feel free to uh
pin that to the top if you want uh if you have a tweet that you can pin to the top so people can know where that is.
Just so that people can go.
I probably won't be able to make it because I have 10, 15 coffee in downtown Miami.
And then I'm sneaking up to lunch.
I just found out at noon with somebody.
So pin it to the top.
Yeah, that's the cool thing.
All I need is your PFP.
That's it.
That's the only support I need.
We're not going to have no guest speakers.
It's not going to be big followers, little followers.
It's going to be retail investors from crypto, NFTs, and stocks all in one place saying,
hey, we all are saying we all trying to get to the same goal.
That's it.
So I don't necessarily need a voice.
I just need your PFP.
Much love, guys.
Right on.
Appreciate you coming up.
Good talking to you again, J. Brown.
Let's run to Eric, and then we'll do our market-sponsored update by Mintify.
Eric, GM, sir.
GM, GM.
You know, I watched a little bit of that SBS stuff yesterday.
And when you look at people who've had, like, a history of substance abuse,
it almost looks like they developed, like like a level of psychosis right where their alternate reality of like the world and like eq and emotions and like
you know just aware of this stuff because i mean when you look at just spf structure you're talking
about like didn't even have employee handbooks like a mom and pa shop with two employees had better hr and payroll management than than a
billion dollar company did and you know it's it's it's almost laughable to the front that either
this guy is the smartest guy in the world who's an idiot or this guy is a prop and he's a puppet
and and what was what was allowing what happened you know to happen
and it's still happening now which you know i believe is you know somebody's running cover
at this point i think there's good odds that you know sam sees no jail time and i'm just saying
that because usually we don't um our justice system does not prosecute those who aren't villainized in like the media, right?
Usually they're, you know, something flares the media and gets it hot and gets it riled up around the country.
We usually see fast justice or prosecution or whatever that matter is.
In this case, we almost see like a Hillary Clinton media tour, right?
Like somebody told him like, okay, start making the paces.
You're going to go, he's on the daily show this morning.
You know, it's like somebody is running a PR campaign for this guy, a very professional
one.
And we're just kind of supposed to leave that, believe that that's not happening.
It's a very weird thing that I think a lot of us are like, you know, it just doesn't add up.
And it's just leaving more questions and more frustrations than not.
You know, it's possible.
I would say this.
I would also say, like, it's entirely possible that he's doing this
completely, he is doing this completely rogue, like, not to be too,
you know, I mean, again, i don't want to be you know
too naive that there might be something else going on but like i think it's also entirely
possible that you know the guy you know hasn't hasn't been arrested yet for one reason or another
right and i don't want to get into that too deep but i think it's entirely possible that
he you know is you know he can go on any show he wants at this point i mean he could
have before anyway but now especially like i said i mean you know people you know if sbf like sent
a message and was like hey i want to come on coffee with captain we'd have sbf on coffee with
captain we'd ask him tough questions but um you know the man's like you know he's becoming
notorious in the face you know like it's like it's like, you know, he's becoming in the face.
You know, like, it's like, it's like, you know, when you, you get a certain level of respect, if you're a good guy helping, but then there's like almost this level of like, infamacy that's like, oh, well, now that he's a bad guy, but he's also a victim.
There's like this, it's the next, uh, it's like going super sane in that version.
Right. And so it's
like, what would you, you know, what we all expected to start saying like, Hey, we're going
to have all these media, you know, people that really put the screws to P you know, to people
or traditionally have basically just say, ah, you know, who hasn't accidentally took deposits and
borrow them to someone else and gambled them all the way. Right. We've all been there. Um, so
let, let he, who hasn't robbed billions of dollars for people cast first stone. It's like, and borrowed them to someone else and gambled them all the way, right? We've all been there. So it's a funny business.
Let he who hasn't robbed billions of dollars for people cast first stone.
It's like, all right, I'm tossing some stones.
No, I get it.
I just – I don't know if there's like – I'm not saying there's not
because I can't make a total prediction on this.
But I also don't know that there is some big, massive cover up here, if that makes
like, I just don't know.
So I don't want to like speculate or guess on that because I just think it's easy.
It's just as easy to say, like, look, like, you know, I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's
just as easy for us to say, like, OK, like if SVF wants to go on these shows, they're
going to have him.
The New York Times is not going to not have him as bad as that was where they're, you know, doing, you know.
So that's where I feel like it's just,
there's too much murky water out there
to make a total call.
But, you know, that said,
before we keep running to hands,
I do want to go to a sponsored update by Mintify.
You know, we're in Miami.
We're talking about sort of a lot of the things
that are going on here,
but Mintify can give us sort of our, you know,
pegged down market update, which we love.
You know, I promise, you know, Rhiannon, you are next, our girl Rhiannon, then we'll go to Loop.
But first, let's go to Mintify. I want that sponsored update this morning because I want to hear about the markets.
Great. Good morning. Thank you for having me here. Let's check out the market for today the total 24 hour market volume 12.75 mil
highest last sale crypto punk 92.85 for 107 eath top three collections based on volume art blocks
is number one today the curated collection 607.8 eath traded 0.155 eath floor price for the the general collection but it was
the pre-processed collection that was getting a lot of the sales i saw a number of seven eight eath
uh sales for that one uh number two macy getting 350 eath traded floor price of just over 13 eath
and then basie 300 just under 350 eath traded 68.9 eath floor price up just over 13 ETH. And then Basie, just under 350 ETH traded, 68.9 ETH floor price,
coming down a little bit from yesterday.
The top gainers, abstraction by Anon, 2,300% up.
I believe that was a Freeman, so it must have had some very low sales early on yesterday.
And Grimplins uh 328 percent up the top losers dreamy coming down 37 percent down and crypto
ducks again 36 percent down the most upvoted drops today cakes party and dimitri cherniak's
selection pass which is a dutch auction from 70 eth down to 10 ETH today. Noteworthy market updates. U.S. CFTC commissioner
insists there should be a new category to protect smaller crypto investors, and Animoca Brands will
unveil its $2 billion metaverse fund called Animoca Capital. The market stats, global crypto market cap, 865 bill, Bitcoin dominance 38%, BTC open interest 6.7 bill, fear and greed at 27, with Bitcoin just over 17,100, Ethereum 1283, both up around 1% on the day, and the S&P 4080 after it had a really nice close yesterday, or less uh flat so far but uh thank you very
much yeah thanks as always the interesting part in there i mean obviously good to see art blocks
on the move i think personally just because i'm a big art blocks fan um that's one that i'm i'm a
fan of but um you know i i think one of the interesting things there is, you know, hearing the consumer protections for smaller crypto investors.
And the optimist in me wants to say that's good.
The pessimist in me wants to say that is more of a regulation so the government can get their taste.
So there's sort of goods and bads there, I feel like.
But I think if there are certain protections that need to go in place for, you know, newer crypto investors, like it could be good or smaller ones.
But it also, to some degree, goes against the ethos of crypto, right, where it's like self-custodio, you know, at your own risk, do your own research.
So that's one that I'm torn on, Cap.
I don't know if you had a similar reaction as you as you get in the car and start to work your way over from Tampa.
Yeah, no, I agree.
Also, though, I did want to give a quick shout out to Hurt Me
for pulling the data down.
What he found, it was like actually 88% of the funds stolen
in the Madoff fraud were returned to those individuals.
So I found that, you know, obviously 88%, it's less than 100. But
if you would have asked me before I heard any number, I would have guessed like 40 to 50%.
So I think that's... What was the resolution time on that cap?
Great question. It says payouts now exceeded 4 billion, over 40,000 victims have received
assistance and minimum recoveries have reached 88% of fraud losses.
I feel like that'd be a five to six year thing at least.
Yeah.
And I think the other thing here too, is it's like, that's 40,000 victims and four and 4
billion here.
You know, I've, I've, you know, I've heard that, you know, millions of customers, right?
So, um, yeah. you know i've you know i've heard that you know millions of customers right so um yeah and this
is like it's like i i read that or i interpret that as it's still in process and also like again
this is gonna go back to like the and i'm not like the big conspiracy theory guy but this also
comes back to the fact that it's like look like those people were also very uh well to do you
know what i mean so like it also is like to some degree it's like okay like the people were also very well to do. You know what I mean? So like it also is like to some degree, it's like, OK, like the people who had billions
of dollars.
Oh, surprise, they're they're getting their money saved.
And the people who maybe were getting hurt by this.
And I mean, don't get me wrong.
Like, first of all, all money is money.
So I'm not trying to discount that.
But like at the same time, it's like, I don't don't know to some degree it's like a lot of
these people who got hurt are you know crypto investors and they aren't necessarily um i don't
know it's just there's something to be said about like the people who invested in the bernie madoff
trial b or bernie madoff being uh sort of those you know people who are already pretty well off
with the maybe the government sometimes cares a little more about um i don't know versus i don't
think they would care about me getting uh you know getting taken down but i don't know maybe i'm just
being cynical now and now maybe i'm talking and all the things that i said i didn't want to say
but here we are um let's um let's keep running around the hands let's go quick quick reset though
because i teased out a topic and i do want to get to it um i think you said 10 15
we'll go to at least today uh 10 o'clock 10 15 i may jump over if ryan's open a daily daily dose
i probably will uh pivot over to there at 10 30 and listen in um but again thanks for being here
everyone we do run this back as steve mentioned every monday through friday at 8 a.m eastern time
and uh often start out with whatever's on everyone's mind today. It just so happened that SBF was on Good Morning America,
so it's kind of dominated the conversation thus far.
I do want to shift and talk some Utes here in a little bit,
or even bigger picture, zooming out from that,
IP and the different opportunities we have to leverage IP in Web3,
at least high level.
Maybe not get into the weeds,
but discuss the different types of licensing we've seen
from CC0 all the way to what we have with Utes at the moment.
So we'll get to that, but don't want to hard pivot
just for anyone who tuned in for the Utes discussion.
Appreciate you being here.
Welcome if you're new.
And for anyone that will be at Art Basel this week, really looking forward to making many new
connections. So that, Steve, I will turn it back to you. Apologize for the interjection, but I
didn't want to leave any of my new Ute friends hanging. Yeah, no, that's great. Let's run to
hands and then I want to give a thought on
the doxing great uh great self-doxing and then uh from there i think we can probably like pivot uh
pretty well but let's go um let's run it down to uh let's go rihanna in um loop then we'll come up
to swicky and uh we can we can do that so uh rihanna and gm gm thank you so much for having me up.
I've been a listener since way back,
and I have to say I'm so impressed with you guys
and how much the show has just grown.
It's like a grown-up little show now.
It's hard to even get in your two cents,
but with that said, I'm willing to say,
and I hate to go backwards,
but to your point about maybe he's rogue,
I mean, how rogue can you be when your family is so
rich and well connected so that's my first point is nobody in that family wants to look bad or
wants the aftermath of what's going to happen i mean everyone knows that his dad is really well
connected and he has some other family members in the mix there so it's just as fucked up as it is
he's not rogue and he never would be because that's the layout of the family.
I mean, I don't know if you've ever seen like a show like Succession, but I imagine that's a little bit like his life.
I mean, at least a little bit.
And then secondly to that is, I mean, I don't want to be the devil's advocate at all by any means.
But the traditional definition of thief, right,
is somebody who ends up with the money in their pocket.
And so that's why I think the media gets away with doing this in this way.
It's just, it's really fucked up and it's not right.
But at the same time, that's how come they can call him a victim.
And I mean, at the end of the day, where's he at in losses too you know so it's
a fucked up situation but they're all putting a lot of emphasis on he's always only got 100k
left in his bank account i couldn't imagine going from 20 billion to 100k no 100 and and and that's
what that's why they're able to to spin it like this i think. I don't think it's fair, but it's a reason why.
It's actually a really, really, first of all, thanks for coming up.
Second of all, Succession is amazing.
And are we getting a new season soon?
I felt like it was coming around the corner, but it's not happening.
Yeah, I don't know exactly when it's coming,
but I can't fuck away. It's a great show.
Everybody should look that up.
And like this, like, first of all, come up, like, obviously any morning.
We love having you up here and, you know, appreciate, you know,
I know you've been an OG listener since it was a tiny, tiny, tiny stage.
And also, you know, I would say this.
I mean, your point is really, really sound on SPF and his parents.
Probably the best one i've actually
heard made to be honest because i think a lot of us talk about like people will be like deep state
this or whatever that at a very basic level his parents and you know are very smart and very well
connected as are carolines like and so like to your point about like me saying like oh he went
rogue or did he go rogue or what's going on
here rogue is relative here right but at the end of the day like if he's doing these things i can't
believe he's doing them outside of the council of even at least his father so i think it's a really
well stated point riannon about like thinking about like his parents and who he's sort of
related to because you know i he's clearly taking counsel
from his dad we've seen that they we've seen the shots of them together and things like that when
they were in the bahamas together so i don't know really well stated and and kind of a you know
something that's got me thinking a bit uh as we as we go through this so appreciate that commentary
well and i also think it contributes to his quote-unquote like god complex like some people
have noted which imagine growing up like that.
Imagine growing up so privileged and feeling like you're the only one that
could help and dah,
dah,
dah,
dah,
dah.
It doesn't excuse any of it.
And I'm not again,
trying to play devil's advocate,
but it just makes you understand a little bit of where his position is in the
world.
I don't think he's pulling his own strings,
but I don't think he's like rogue either. So
anyways, have a great day, guys. Love your show.
Appreciate you.
Appreciate you so much. Great
commentary as usual.
Like I said,
if you're not following Rianne, she's one of those
day one listeners who's been up here when we had
20 people in this space
every day. So appreciate
you very, very much um let's run to
loop and then i'll see if swicky's still at a place where she can talk and then we'll go back
down to jack loop gm hey gm everybody uh yeah i love succession i hope we get a new season soon
um yeah gm so i i wanted to talk a little bit about i was having a conversation not nearly on
the same level but i gotta plug it because i just watched it last night and it's on my mind.
But if you've not watched White Lotus, completely different than Succession, but also worth the watch.
Sorry, Luke, back to you.
Yeah, that's a good point.
First and second season.
I will note, though, the second season is brand new characters and kind of similar storyline, but almost all new characters.
So if you don't like that and if you didn't like that in House of Dragon,
fair warning, it's pretty frustrating.
But I wanted to talk a little bit.
I was having a conversation with a friend I haven't talked to in a while
when I was home for Thanksgiving.
And he works for the Wall Street Journal now
and does all their podcasts and videos, like online videos.
And I was kind of asking him, like, how, like, with the Wall Street Journal now and does all their podcasts and videos like online videos and I
was kind of asking him like how like with with the Wall Street Journal New York Times like all
these big news outlets getting the SPF story so wrong from the beginning and you know having having
parts in articles and in the paper that seem like they be right. But the verbiage they use is kind of just, you know, verbiage that is, you know, somebody who's an outsider who doesn't kind of fully understand the issue.
So how do we how do we change that?
Like, how do we how do we get out of this kind of, OK, like the news cycle is just going to cover it wrong?
And he actually said that he thinks the biggest issue is that, you know,
especially news on TV, they have segments, right? They have, you know, the 8 to 9am,
they have the 9 to 10am, and they have to fill that. So if they if they can't fill it with
something interesting, they're going to fill it with things that they're going to vamp on
and things that they're going to make up. So it kind of lends itself to bad news.
So he actually says that, you know, he sees Twitter being a pretty large piece of news
because I was like, you know, I was on Twitter spaces and checking on Twitter.
And that's where I would get my, like from reliable people on Twitter.
That's where I'd get my reliable news on the FTX story.
And he actually sees it kind of going in a different direction where we're breaking news and kind of fast stories are like, they should be broken on Twitter
from trusted voices, as well as like maybe a news app that is like solely on, you know,
live action news, like happening right now. There's no segments. It's not, Hey, we're live
eight to 9am. It's, it's. It's happening right now. And that the Wall
Street Journal and kind of these like larger news organizations should really turn to what happened
maybe a week later, half a week later, when they have all the facts and they're able to dig in deep,
what actually happened? Because they found that younger users actually only care about what
happened.
They don't want any commentary.
So I thought that was really interesting.
Like, you know, Gen Z, millennials, he said, they're the biggest category.
They don't care about what you think about it,
which I thought was so interesting because you'd think the opposite.
But really, they're after social capital,
and they want to be able to talk about
it to their friends, and they just want to know what happened. So I'm kind of interested to see,
especially in Web3, which is a tough area to cover, and you kind of need to know a lot about
it if you're going to write an article. Even if you're just writing an article about bored apes,
there's so much nuance that you need to be able to capture. So I think it's going to be interesting,
and how Twitter is evolving. I wonder if this is going to be able to capture. So I think it's going to be interesting and like how Twitter is evolving.
I wonder if this is going to be kind of,
you know, Twitter spaces and tweets
from trusted voices is going to become
the breaking news and, you know,
actually be able to cover
like things like the FTX story
that'll inevitably happen again,
like positively in the right way
and in the right verbiage going forward.
I love this. I agree, Steve. I'm'm curious your take but i just i i think also loop may have just um
you know revealed why we we we don't we don't skew towards the gen z demographic on coffee
with captain yeah it makes sense why maybe kevin from d god shows up sometimes um
because now that he's doxed we're like okay like he makes sense he listens to our show
my two dads um but i i would say this like um i i had this comment the other day um when somebody
asked like what can be done on this reporting or what can we do and my answer was something
similar to what you said where where the problem is, is that
these large media outlets don't particularly have people who are living and breathing in this world,
which is extremely complex. And that's an issue. You know, I, you know, I had this, you know,
again, I had this discussion where I was like, again, this isn't me being salty. It's just a
fact. I don't, I don't care. It's on to the next, but it's like, you know, a few months ago I had this discussion where I was like, again, this isn't me being salty. It's just a fact.
I don't care.
It's on to the next.
But it's like, you know, a few months ago, I had sent in, you know, an op-ed to like the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, like even, you know, smaller publications,
Business Insider, just basically being like, hey, like this is, you know, this mainstream
adoption on this thing is coming.
And here's why, here's how, whatever, all these, you know, basically talking about like
what was coming up. And it's actually come to fruition. This was like probably when Nike first acquired
Artifact. And I, you know, talked about like some, you know, thoughts on like why businesses should
get to know it or whatever. And, you know, probably for the best I didn't, cause now I'm
writing a book on it. But like before that, like I'm submitting this thing, but like, here I am
submitting this. I didn't get a single email back. Meanwhile, you have people who work at the Wall Street Journal who just cover traditional finance saying,
hey, let's talk about what's going on with SBF. And they're coming in completely cold with no
background, not understanding. And then they're trying to research and do it. And I respect these
reporters and their objectivity, and their like sort of ability to look at it from afar. But when
people say like, there's this big conspiracy media coverage, again, I don't think it's that complicated. I think it's, you're taking somebody who
traditionally covers when like, you know, we start with the GameStop coverage too.
It's like you take somebody who's traditionally covering like, um, Apple's investor meeting,
and then they're trying to cover like a deep crypto, you know, scandal. It just doesn't add
up correctly. And so I, you know, a lot of people were like oh it must be
this and the mainstream media and it's a cover-up in real time i'm like i don't i don't think that's
it i think it's just people aren't properly equipped to cover these stories and then they're
being assigned it and instead of having people on staff because there's the other conflict of
interest issue you know josh on will tell you when he was covering bitcoin uh he wasn't allowed to
own a bitcoin which i respect and understand that conflict of interest i. You know, Josh Ong will tell you when he was covering Bitcoin, he wasn't allowed to own any Bitcoin, which I respect and understand that conflict of interest.
I would prefer having somebody who is a commentator in the space who can give you like the facts,
like you said, but even present the actual thoughts behind it and do it in a way that says like,
look, I own this, I own this, I own this. So here's my, you know, personal, because that's
what I try to do. When we talk about things in the show, I talk this, I own this. So here's my, you know, personal, cause that's what I try to do when we talk about things in the show.
I talk about how I think on chain monkey is cool.
They're doing a partner with Alexis, well, Alexis Andre did friendship bracelets.
That's awesome. I also disclose,
I own four OCM Genesis and eight OCM karmas. Like it's just a thing.
Like it's not meant to be a bad bias. I can like,
but I also think part of it is, you know, you know,
we've had people on the stage say like, when you own something, you, you know, we've had people in the States say, like, when you own something, you might be somewhat biased.
But, like, just assume someone owns something they're talking about.
And if they're not, question why they don't, right?
And granted, like, Cap and I talk about things we don't own all the time that we enjoy and teams and whatever.
But, like, most people probably are talking about things they own because if they like it this much to talk about it, they probably own it. So I think that that's an issue we sometimes
run into with where people see perceived biases. And so we couldn't have those people at news
outlets. But I mean, that's the problem. New York Times, The Wall Street Journal,
you know, GM, Good Morning America, a lot of them, they're just not super well equipped to
cover this. And they're the ones who need their, you know,
degenerate, you know, cousin at the Thanksgiving table telling them what's going on with SVF so
they can ask the proper questions. You know, it's it's it's it's wild. And so I just I think that
that's the issue that we run into with the media. I don't think it's some big conspiracy cover up.
I think they're just not equipped to actually cover this because they have no idea what they're
a lot of them have no idea what they're talking about. Like some, I know people,
like I literally know people in mainstream media outlets like the Times and the Wall Street Journal
and CNN and Fox News. And none of these people have some like big agenda they're given, especially
when they're reporting the news. You know, a lot of the talking heads do. It's just, you know,
there are people in those positions who I was telling about NFTs
last year, who I was telling about crypto in 2018, 2019. And they're just like surface level,
not in that world. And it's like, if you've never bought crypto, and you've never like,
I get the conflict of interest, but even never bought crypto or an NFT, are you really equipped
to talk about it? Like, if you've never had to go through like, a MetaMask seed phrase, if you've never had to like set up a ledger, are you really equipped to be the person
who's reporting and talking about what's going on in this world? Like I remember when ledger,
they've done so great with their software. I freaking love ledger now. But I remember when
ledger software came out and I made this joke, like if I can't even transfer my own assets out
of my ledger, I feel very confident they're protected from being hacked, right?
Because there was this point where like,
you had to open a bridge and all these other things.
Now they've fixed all that with Ledger Live and figured it out.
But like, if somebody hasn't gone through that process,
how well equipped are they to talk about security in NFTs, for example,
if that makes sense?
So I don't know.
Luke, go ahead.
You can respond to that.
But that's kind of my thought on it.
Yeah, ledger was terrible.
I remember in 2017, I got my first Ledger.
And I was like, I have no idea what's happening.
But yeah, my friend said that a lot of the people covering at Wall Street Journal
who are covering the FDX story are people that cover tech.
So it's like the same people that cover the new features on the iPhone.
So not exactly like the right wheelhouse uh
some people from finance and uh like trad fi but i thought that was kind of interesting no there's
it because i i know i similarly like i literally know people who work my sister-in-law works at
the law street journal and she actually was assigned i believe a story about sbf and hers
was fine it was just about him being you know shitty and rugging charity and she talked about the Vox interview where he said like we dumb westerners
like that thing care about charity so like but it's like I like I love her obviously to death
like I mean she's like my you know she's awesome right but like I think about a newsroom sitting
around and being like hey what are we covering hey uh Rachel can you cover the SBF story let's
find an angle for you to cover there.
It's like, she's brilliant and covers amazing,
like traditional finance, you know, individual stories
all the time and does a great job at it.
Would I have thought that this person I was explaining NFTs to
a year and a half ago would be covering SBF,
who, you know, hasn't traded crypto.
And like, she knows to some degree, like she's awesome
and like is in the world. And again, she's brilliant's brilliant but like is she the best person equipped to make that
coverage and like i think that that's what i i guess that's what i run into a little bit with
like with these things is like to your point it's like people are walking around the newsroom it's
like it reminds me a little bit of back in the day when social media uh managers were becoming a
thing before social media was like really a thing
when Web2 was first emerging for brands.
And they looked around and they're like,
who in here's on Facebook?
Cool, you're running social media for a Fortune 500 now.
Like that happened.
That happened at multiple Fortune 500s I know
because I know people in that world.
So it's like, it feels like they're like,
okay, you cover tech.
You did the iPhone update recently and how the camera now can do an extra wide zoom.
Can you cover SPF and this extremely complex crypto scandal?
Or like, oh, you do Trad Finance.
You've covered the investor meeting for Disney.
Cool.
Can you cover this SPF?
It just doesn't add up.
And like, I just, if you don't know, you should ask.
And I just feel like a lot of
these media outlets are too in their own world to say like hey can we reach like who are the people
who are talking about this every day you have access to live social audio 24 hours a day I can
jump on a space at any time during the day and have a conversation with someone who is brilliant
we do it on this stage all the time people come come up, they're so smart. Then we like jump to Ryan's face and we go to the next and all that. And yeah, it's just like, it's hard for me
to sort of stomach the coverage because I don't think it's again, malicious. I think it's just
people who don't know any better. Just, just one last point I want to make is, you know, I, what
I'm, what I'm paying attention to, I don't know if there's an investment opportunity here, but I do
think there's at least a big change opportunity where like, you know,
Web3 lends itself to the, you know, the best people covering it are looking for on-chain data,
right? And you need to, you need to be in the ecosystem to understand on-chain data and not,
because it can be really confusing and misleading if you don't really fully understand it. It's like, you know, the FTX story, I was following sneaky ninja pants.
So like, you know, I think what's super cool about Web3 and it lends itself to like decentralized news as well.
And, you know, I don't know how that's going to look, but that's something I think is important to pay attention to.
That's something I think is important to pay attention to and like how how this how this kind of evolves over time and how kind of these Internet sleuths and, you know, anybody who knows blockchain with a computer and access to Internet is able to, you know, kind of break stories.
So I think that's kind of interesting.
Yeah, I think I think citizen journalism is super interesting.
Definitely one that I think is going to continue to grow.
Let's run down to Jack and Dan.
Jack, get in here and then we'll go back to Dan.
GM, GM, Steve, GM, Captain.
Thanks for having me up again.
God, so many topics this morning.
I think I'd just love to just quickly go to Loop
and just say one of my big things, I think,
is we need to just be right.
I think if it's documented through Twitter through a blog through wherever on you know dates time stamps that we
have given such a better level of context and such better content around what is actually going on
once some of these normies actually catch up and go how did that not get
covered at the time as well as it and they can start seeing the way we've put our blogs together
our content together and go oh these are the guys in the know i think that's really going to help
and like especially when you talk about the blockchain and maybe even getting like the news
outlets on the blockchain so any media anything that gets posted you know is in permanent indelible ink
through the blockchain and you know you can't just edit that later down the time i think all that sort
of stuff super interesting but my big point is i think as long as we're right now that yeah these
these media companies will start paying attention and i would not be surprised if there was an nft
blockchain crypto um section to these sort of publications very soon because even if it's new
it is definitely entertaining and I'm sorry if that's not the right word for what we're talking
about right now but you know even if it's the wild west technically yeah I've seen a few tv
series recently that I love that are based on that sort of that sort of time frame.
are based on that sort of that sort of time frame um linking into sbf i think someone mentioned
earlier you know it's like the the tv show um i forget with the name of the tv show now but
it if to me it feels more like a dope sick than necessarily you know this big powerful family
who are in the media like building up this this corporate company it's more dope sick in
terms of this dude is like ruined lives he's ruined lives to the point where it is clearly
obvious how they've done it they just have a significant amount of money and that money
happens to be in some of the right pockets so this is going to go on for a while before we get to the
end of it but i do think we'll get to the end of it. I do think this family, this specific individual will get called out.
It just, yeah, it's not going to be a quick win.
And finally, just pivot, if we can, into the IP, Captain.
So I know you really wanted to talk about that.
I'd just love to get the speaker's ideas on, like, how do we leverage IP with our NFTs?
How do we see that working in terms of if if we have the
right background to build the business if we want to use our ip to do that with an nft where do we
start like in my my opinion you know you start with a trait you start with the people who already
love that nft and you know maybe at the first stage it's a dow and that builds itself up and then you know you
stop building and building um through that to the wider nft collection then people who like the
collection and then out of the space but i'd love to know like what you guys think about how do we
actually go about building ip if we do have a relatively cool nft to work from yeah i think uh
we'll pivot to that in a minute let's get these last couple hands and I think we'll pivot to that in a minute. Let's get these last couple of hands, and I think we can pivot to that topic of the day. Let's run down to Dan, then we'll come to
Mizell. Hey, sorry to hog everything, but I promised you to pull up what it was they recovered
from Madoff. And it was about 80% was the return. It's about 80. percent, actually. And just a couple other things. You know, we keep
coming around to some of these topics here. And it's a lot of these are kind of important issues
to me. You know, Steve, you mentioned like, oh, you know, if somebody's if somebody's talking
about a product, you have to assume that they own it or have some stake in it. And you would think
so. Right. But remember, there was, you know, incidents on Wall Street in traditional finance years ago that resulted in the need to have these disclosures.
If you watch Bloomberg or CNBC and, you know, the analyst, you know, talks about something and then they pop up, you know, yeah, they own it.
They don't own it. They have that little check line that goes down. That exists for a reason. So I know it seems like it should be self-obvious, but we've shown time and time again throughout history that for whatever reason, it's not.
I don't understand why. I mean, I agree with you. You should know that.
But, you know, that's why these rules exist, because for some reason, people don't seem to get that. And repeatedly, that's happened.
that and repeatedly that's happened. I also want to point out again, it's just a little bit of
history, right? When people say, well, you know, what's going on and why aren't people arrested?
And, you know, all these theories about why that might be. And I bring this up because I think
that that's damaging to the space because when you try to get more people into the space and
to help create innovation, people look at that and go, well, you know, look, why do I want to take this risk?
These people are nuts, right?
And calling people normies and everything.
I understand that's the internal slang, but, you know, that can be damaging to the industry
overall.
The reality is, right, if you look at, let's take Enron, for example.
Enron collapsed over a period of a couple months in total, right? And you could even
look at it even being further back than that if you start with when did some reporting start
coming out about the funkiness in the marketplace? But let's just say from when kind of the red
flags really were flying high, it took a couple months for enron to collapse they had a potential buyer
for about 30 days they didn't collapse until december they didn't file bankruptcy until
december 1 of 2001 it took a little over two years for skilling and lay to be indicted
so that that's kind of remember you can't just go and indict people. We've got
something called double double jeopardy here. You can't just be like, oh, yeah, I'm going to charge
you with all this stuff and then be like, oh, wait, no, never mind. I got that wrong. Here's
the difference. Like, it doesn't work that way. Then you lose. So these are these are complex
things. And if you look at history for complex, you know, financial crimes, it can take a couple of years to get to indictments.
That's just that's just how it works.
And I guess the last thing I would say is just, you know, people should always remember that there's certain rules on people.
Right. I'm not allowed to talk about things because I'm involved in this space. And by the way, Steve, I agree with you on, I'm involved in stuff like
this and in the space because I think that you need to actually do it if you're going to be a
good advocate or good partner, you know, good player in the industry. So I own PFPs. I own,
you know, I trade stuff. I buy and sell, right? None of my clients stuff because I can't do that.
But for things where I don't have inside information,
I do all of that. Why don't I use my PFPs? Because it's illegal, right? Legally, I have to be doxed,
right? Lawyers can't go around using assumed names. That's the way it is. And similarly, I can't talk about matters that I'm involved in if they're not public record. I can't talk about
any confidential information. It doesn't mean that that information, and that's just me, right?
There's plenty of others out there. That doesn't mean that the information isn't known. It doesn't
mean that stuff isn't happening. It just means legally we can't talk about it. So I encourage
people to not conflate lack of information with there being none. It just might mean that a bunch
of people involved in
that or the people that know what's going on are handcuffed and they just can't say anything
yeah i think it's well said too because i think a lot of people maybe don't realize that there are
limitations on that sort of stuff and there are like i remember when i would like talk to uh my
buddy scott and it just he wasn't allowed to have a PFP.
Like he just,
he wasn't,
it has to be his own personal one.
And then he was able to modify it.
And it was just based on the rules of sort of like where he worked and what
he did.
And so I think it's,
I think it's well stated and it's,
it is just interesting how many people like fall off on that,
like disclosures.
I do think that that's something that the space is going to be sort of like there's going to be a really interesting sort of reckoning with the space
because i do think there's a lot of people you know potentially who are still out there that
aren't properly disclosing things they should be disclosing and it's important
oh i let's um yeah i oh god dan i agree and there's laws about that i just
and it's not even just laws about what i can and cannot say right there's other like i know people
in this space who um have corporate policies against being on record it i can be recorded
as long as i give the disclosures that's why i always say them but i know there are people that
would be valuable players but because these spaces are recorded they can't say anything
they're just not allowed to um So there's a whole web.
The people, and it can get confusing out there, right,
because there's a whole bunch of people in a similar position to me
that are running around talking about everything.
Well, that means one of two things.
Either they're ignoring the ethical rules and laws, right,
which I doubt is the case, or two,
they aren't really that deep in the space.
They're out there really marketing and trying to be in the space
versus actually being in a space and doing things like, you know, helping to write, you know,
position papers, advocating for things, representing clients in big matters. And that's why I'm, you
know, people like me are oftentimes constrained from saying things because I can't breach
confidential information. No, no, it makes sense why you start now with the, I'm a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer,
and none of this is like legal advice and all that stuff, because it is important. And I think
it's just like, yeah, I don't know, as the space matures, I think we'll see more responsible actors
like yourself coming in and making those comments. But yeah, it's, it's, it's just, it's such a
complex world, I think right now. And I think we're still, like, all figuring it out.
But to your point, like, I think a lot of the people who maybe don't,
it's like, do they know any better?
Do they not know any better?
It's just, I don't know.
There's definitely some sort of, like, sketchiness to how the place is navigated.
Let's run down to Mizzle, then Cap, I'll go back to you for –
I want to talk about the doxxing stuff, and we'll go to the IP stuff and I'll, I'll probably get on the road soon anyway.
So, uh, Mizzle GM, a rare Mizzle appearance.
GM, GM, everybody.
Um, I just couldn't sit by and not talk about this, this topic.
Shout out to y'all for hosting an awesome space per usual, um, fire every day.
But I just got three quick points to be respectful of your time today.
This whole SBF stuff is like watching the movie play out in real time.
And it's actually a really good movie because I don't know the ending to this one.
So the first thing I want to touch on is the narrative shift that we're seeing trying to
be played out right before our eyes.
It's crazy to see that this guy, after what he's done, is going on a media campaign.
I'm not sure at any other point in time in history when somebody's done what he's done is being greeted by people in the crowd.
It's almost like a sitcom, you know, when you say a joke and it's on cue
when people start clapping and stuff.
That's the vibe I kind of got.
But one of the biggest takeaways that I took
is the fact that he was saying that the U.S. side
is fully solvent and possibly could return funds.
And it makes me wonder how much, like,
did he go on air planning to say that because i remember during this whole
fiasco ftx officially cut ties i believe he removed information from that side saying he
was with ftx so him saying that ftx us is fully solvent i wonder was that information he had
prior to stepping down or being slightly removed away from it.
And for him to disclose that, I wonder if he's saying, hey, you know, I'm good.
You know, regulators in the U.S., the U.S. people are fine.
Don't worry about the other side of the world.
You know, their stuff.
We know that I know that you're more strict over here.
more strict over here. So I thought that was a really interesting point.
So I thought that was a really interesting point.
The next thing I want to touch on, this may
be unpopular, but if we really sit down and think about it,
SPF really does have a chance to be this generation's Jordan Belford.
Depending on how they can
spin this, and if the media and other people that's not in
Web3 consistently and watch what
this guy's done um he may be seen as hey uh this guy he made a mistake and you're starting to see
like some of the world's richest people starting to kind of push that narrative um it's just
interesting watching this play out in real time um And also, as far as just like crypto culture, one of the biggest things that we harp on is being wrecked.
It's almost like a badge of honor.
So if this guy wrecks a lot of people in that badge of honor thing, it's like, hey, I've been wrecked by SPF.
And here's the media campaign that he's trying to pull up.
I thought that was a really interesting dynamic.
And the final thing I wanted to touch on is citizen journalism and Elon. I think
there's Twitter spaces and going back a little clubhouse, I think that's one of the biggest
innovations as far as
citizen journalism that we've had. I think Twitter
set itself up to be one of the world's biggest
media centers going forward. I just remember it really, really taking off the media cycles when
the start of the war. I just remember people literally staying up 24-7 spaces and breaking news before a lot of the major, you know, publications caught it hours later.
And I think that's really cool, even like the little blue checkmark dynamic.
I think what it does when we're presenting information as citizens, we actually take the time to see if it's legit or not,
compared to coming from one of the main, you know, like the main providers of information that we come out, we usually just accept it as truth.
So by having these discussions and, you know, going back and forth on the truth or not,
I think we finally get down to the simple answer.
And the last thing, my closing thing I wanted to touch on is there's a book I read a while
back.
It's called The Richest Man in Babylon.
And one of the lessons that he learned was he had a lot of money
and he wasn't sure what to do with it.
So he listened to the carpenter that told him about jewels in the faraway land.
So he ended up investing in these jewels in the faraway land
and it turned out that it was fakes.
So the moral of the story was don't listen to the carpenter about jewels, listen to the jewels.
So I think, you know, when we're talking about these media reporters that haven't opened up a MetaMask or whatnot,
and they're trying to spin these stories about SPF, um, are they the carpenters telling us about the jewels?
Are they the carpenters trying to tell us something that sounds good when in actuality they haven't spent much time
and don't know what they're talking about when it comes to web three and uh you know the coverage
that we get so i just wanted to you know pop in and say my piece shout out to cap steve um awesome
spaces per usual um you know keep on rocking love it love it every day dude i appreciate it
and uh definitely would agree with you i think you're at your point
i'm like are these the carpenters or are these the you know what i mean like it's sort of like
it is i think it is people who are not in the know trying to tell us what's up and and that's
that's part of the problem but um you know really really good points all around i think and it's
just it it is tough to watch but i think your description of like, it's a movie playing out in real time is very. Yeah, I think it's I think it's I think it's a I think it's well stated just because I think that we're we are and it's just the weirdest thing that I've never.
never experienced anything like this in my life where I'm like in real time watching it and you
just want to go out there and be like, it's, you know, like those calls are coming from inside the
building, you know, when you're like, you know, watching like a killer movie or something, but
like, there's just nothing we can do about it. So, you know, well said, Mizzle. Kick it down to
Jaybrush. Jaybrush, good seeing you last night. Yeah, man, good to see you. It's such a small world after all.
I walk into Drew Barman's party, and the first person I run into is Louie.
I'm talking to him for like 10 minutes before I realize he's working with D-Gen.
And then the next guy I run into, he went to high school with.
And I was like, what the hell?
And the next guy, I'm talking to Riggs, and, like, you know, the three people I had, like,
long conversations with, I all knew it was awesome.
Having a blast down here.
There's so many people building so many interesting things.
Like, your story about going from Web 2 to Web 3,
like, is one of the only ones I've heard.
But, like, down here, like, everyone's, like,
jumping ship and building some really cool stuff.
So, I'm having a blast.
I'm right on the beach.
I got a really cheap Airbnb, like 150 a night.
I'm actually walking to go get a bicycle so I can go to coffee with Captain.
So not only did I drive at 4 a.m. to get to the city,
I'm now going to be biking 40 minutes to come see you guys,
but it's all good.
And just look forward to seeing you. I'm really having a good time down here. I'm glad going to be biking 40 minutes to come see you guys, but it's all good. And just look forward to seeing you.
I'm really having a good time down here.
I'm glad I came.
Glad you came, too.
It was good seeing you last night.
Yeah, it was funny when you saw Dan, who I went to high school with, who's also in the DJ Network War Room.
And, you know, he reached out to me randomly on LinkedIn and was like, hey, man.
Or maybe it was Facebook or something. He reached out and he's like, hey, man, or maybe it was Facebook or something.
He reached out and he's like, hey, man, like, I know you're into this NFT thing.
I've been thinking about it.
And he was in like sort of a smaller community that was, I don't know, it was related to like the food industry
because he's like one, even though he doesn't work in the cooking industry,
he like has won like one of those like live cooking shows um so i thought that that was you
know it was just kind of fun um you know having that conversation with him and the next thing i
know he's in dgen he's an on chain monkey and he's just working his way around uh you know he's doing
the rounds he was hanging out with boots last night so um just overall um i don't know good
good seeing that you ran into him and then yeah the first people I saw was you and him when I walked into
the event last night,
just seeing, you know, the two of you
hanging out and talking. It's kind of surreal, because
him and I used to, like, we literally used
to play poker, like, in
high school, and even before
high school, that was sort of where we learned to play.
When I've talked about my background playing poker,
Dan was part of that. Him and I
did it together.
You know, so it's, it's crazy that it's all happening.
That's awesome. Steve. And real quick, I'm going to jump down.
I just want to give a shout out to the goats who were chosen by Jenkins of LA
as a preferred community to create characters for their story about finding
the dog. And it's really awesome. We got some great goats in this community.
You know, we support call to a captain since the beginning and it's uh really given us a chance to use this forging
mechanism to create ip and to create characters that might come to life so it's going to be a big
win for a lot of people who have been uh you know really committed to small communities and building
under the radar that doesn't get the recognition that they really deserve so i'm proud of them
and yes full disclosure i own a bunch of goats i don't even know how many but uh it's a big win
for some smaller communities and i'm i'm very thankful that jenkins is uh doing that for 12
of us and potentially more yeah jenkins is great i mean you can't you sort of can't beat jenkins
as far as like doing stuff like that and this is one of those things that i sort of you know
had heard was in the works and it's good to hear that it's it's sort of coming to fruition and uh yeah shout out to the goats
it's a great community i i own a handful as well but uh you know appreciate that uh cap i'll kick
it over well steve i was gonna say that's that's actually a great segue into the discussion on ip
that said i you caught me at a gas station here so i was thought maybe if you want to give your
takes on the doc scene you listened in yesterday we didn't get to hear from you so maybe give us your
your quick thoughts on that anything you want to then transition from jenkins into ip and i'll by
that time i'll be back in the car yeah well cap gets gas um you know i i'll say this like i you
know i had a um i listened yesterday it was great it was uh it was great
kind of hearing everybody and you know again shout out to punter for for stepping in and hosting that
was awesome um you know for me like i i've been doc since day one and i think there's a lot of
things that go into this i either like i had this you know really good conversation with aka stevie
yesterday and she had mentioned like you know i won't i won't tell her story her story is hers to tell although um definitely want to get her on coffee with captain one day to talk
about her journey uh into into web 3 uh from reddit and other places but you know she had
mentioned like one of the things about doctrine she had this line that i'll say where it was like
you know i was saying like one of the beautiful parts about web 3 is that when i talk to people
their age their gender their, everything doesn't matter.
All that matters is the content of your character because you're tweeting behind these, you know, PFPs and you're talking on spaces.
You don't know what people look like or who they are a lot of times.
And, you know, for me, that's like there's something like actually kind of beautiful about that.
And Stevie had this line where she said, first you know you don't know and then by
the time it happens you don't care so like the idea of like look you didn't know that this person
looks sounded was this person and then when they doxed you're like oh that's cool like but that's
my friend it doesn't matter and i do wonder how many people change their mind and um you know i
won't steal rigs's thunder because rigiggs had an interesting thought on doxing
and being out there and a reason why I was probably
actually from my own world comfortable doxing at first, right?
Like something that I did, you know,
as we can talk a little bit about.
But like, you know, I've been doxing pretty much day one.
You know, once I got enamored with this tech,
you know, a lot of people know my story
going from like web two to web three and, you know, making that leap.
And the fact that I've always sort of been a little early in tech and I've always listened to other people who told me that, told me, basically told me no, told me it wasn't going to like work for me.
And like you, you know, like, like not every company needs a website.
You're wasting your time.
Here I am like 12, 13 years old, teaching myself HTML before Google.
Could have been pretty lucrative, but instead I'm like, oh, you know what?
These teachers are right.
Their websites are stupid.
And so, you know, it's like, I was like, hey, I'm going to make this Web3 decision.
When I made that decision, I made the decision that if I want to work in this industry, I'm
going to be docs.
It was actually a differentiator for me at the time that I was putting pictures out there
and I was doing videos and I was talking and it, it, it helped
me out that my real name was out there, which is funny. Cause to this day, sometimes still I'll
post like, Hey, like, let's connect. Like here's my LinkedIn. I made my, my profile picture. They
were all say, put something on people be like, Oh my God, doxing or last name. And I'm like,
no, it's been out there since pretty much like I want to say like March
2020 April 2020 April 2021 something like that whenever I actually created this particular
Twitter account and stopped being a lurker um so my doxing thought is like I think it's everybody's
personal decision I personally made a decision last summer to either at the very least only invest in pseudonymous founders who
are like out there so like frank would be a good example where he was talking in spaces i heard his
voice i knew he existed kevin like is somebody who i knew existed he had a background that was
like verifiable um you know i only made that i made a decision that that was an important thing
to me it's not important to everybody that's okay um you know i think the discussion that that was an important thing to me. It's not important to everybody. That's okay. You know,
I think the discussion yesterday that I thought was a really good point though.
And I think punter brought this up is like,
look,
like if we want to be taken seriously,
I know we want to keep the culture,
but if we want to be taken seriously,
like one of the biggest critiques we get is,
you know,
and one of the things people see is they see these,
you know,
silly little JPEGs,
which obviously we know aren't silly,
but like they see us, you know, they see monkeys and goats and cats and cartoons and they're like okay like you're
and meanwhile when a person comes up with a real image like like dan has his own picture right it's
like you know the first time dan requests i click on his name i look at him like okay are you legit
okay he says you're a lawyer you have you've tweeted a little bit okay this guy's legit but
you almost question the people with real profile pictures on Twitter spaces more.
And that is a problem for our industry.
Like if you want leaders out in the forefront, you need to have docked people.
And I'm not saying everybody has to dock.
It's a personal decision.
It is totally okay if you don't.
But it is hard for me to go down the rabbit hole too much with somebody as far as like putting a lot of money towards something if I can't verify that they're not going to just because we've seen it right I mean
people don't dox they drop projects and they disappear and it's like hey where'd my money go
and there's no consumer protections yet so I don't know for me like it's it's a good thing
but I did like that point from Stevie that was like look at first you don't know and then you
don't care and there's something beautiful about that. And if we lose that, it does kind of stink, right?
Because then people's preconceived biases are going to come into play.
You know, but on the flip side, it's also, you know,
it's also a personal choice.
So I just, I don't know.
There's a lot that goes into it, but I'm definitely somebody,
and Riggs, I want to kick to you as far as like, you know,
one of the tough conversations that we have,
and, you know, we have tough conversations.
I'd love for you to kind of bring up your point of why you were comfortable doxing and why probably I was comfortable doxing a little more too,
which I think was a good conversation we had with Stevie last night.
Yeah, you know, I'm definitely down to talk about it. I mean, it's because we're good looking white
men, right? You know, and that was the first part minus the first part. That was great. Yeah,
like that was the there's an inside joke there for,
for you.
We were hanging out with,
for everybody.
We were hanging out with AK Stevie and she goes,
you know,
some,
you know,
great looking white men.
And we both,
Steve and I looked down at each other,
like,
duh,
we're right in front of you.
Like,
but no,
in all honesty,
it is part of that, right? We have been privileged,
for lack of a better way of saying it, with not having to think about being judged all the time,
because we are white males from the United States of America. We speak English. Well,
sometimes me clearly, I'm from the South, so, you know,
sometimes it's not always so clear. But we've just never dealt with that. And so,
I am pro-doxing. I have always been pro-doxing. However, those that know me know I have a very
close friend in the space, G-Man, who G-Man is like my mental Sherpa that keeps me balanced at times, right?
And I run a little bit hotter than he does, and he always tries to continue to educate me.
And there's a few podcasts from a person, Bology, that he's unbelievably smart that talks about that I have this bias in my mind about
doxing because I don't have to concern myself with doxing because of who I am in my background.
And so it gives you, it gives other people opportunities to start on that even playing
field, if that makes sense. You don't have to worry about race, religion,
dialect, anything. It's just one of those opportunities that we have right this second.
So again, to go back to it, that eventually you might not care because you've already built it up,
like AKCB was saying. So it's just something that I've been thinking about a lot. I do believe that
as, you know, Frank and Kevin, as they're coming out, they've already built this persona and
they've been out in the public. So we kind of feel like we knew them already. And now it comes out,
you know, G money, same thing. Now, I'm sure we all have in our heads, you know, pictures of what we think they're going to look like. And so it gets shot. G money, same thing. Now, I'm sure we all have in our heads pictures of what we think
they're going to look like. And so it gets shot. We have that shock and awe when it comes up. But
it is those hard conversations, those subconsciousness, the bias that you don't
always think about in your everyday life, that having these conversations is what makes us better.
It makes us stronger.
And quite honestly, the more educated we can be on this
and have more people continue to talk on this type of topic,
it will probably help people like myself continue to say,
okay, maybe doxed isn't this four-letter word, right? Or undoxed isn't
this four-letter word. Let's allow them to continue to build something because they're
great human beings. Screw it. Because we are all people. Well, not everybody. There's some
bots around. But we are all human beings behind these images, and we need to begin to open our eyes, open our hearts to that as well.
So it's a much larger conversation than just what we're having right this second.
But it was something that it was really fun last night to have it with a.k.a. Stevie.
And also just Steve, thank you for the invite to go and hang out.
It was such an amazing night altogether.
So I hope I was able to explain kind of what we were talking about, Steve.
No, that was great.
That was exactly what I was looking for is that idea that, like, look, like, I had no problem doxing.
But, like, it's very easy for me as a cis white male to go out and say, you know, I was joking around because I've now been mixed up with Justin Mizell a few times because we have a similar haircut and a similar energy.
And I also like someone's like, hey, was I talking to you last night at Metaverse Miami?
I'm like, I got in like three hours ago when I was talking to someone at Drew Barman's party.
And being like one of the most generic looking white guys on planet Earth, which is what I am.
It's easy for me to say like, oh, I'm going to put myself out there because I can hide in a crowd.
And it's been a very privileged life that I've been able to live because of that, that you don't realize because you only experience your own worldview.
And then once you start to hear others, you're like, oh, shit, other people have these things that they go through.
So I think a really well stated point, you know, and on a light note, like as we go through that, it was funny. Cause I was, uh, I was talking to Riggs when I ran into Riggs at, um, um,
when I ran to Riggs at, at the Drew Barman event and Drew Barman on Shane Monkey event.
And he, she showed up, I should have told him to come earlier, but you know, I was like,
all right, swing through. So he came through, uh, got his wristband and kind of, you know,
popped a drink. And I was like, Hey man, um, you just missed it. Like Justin, you know,
Mizell happened to just be here. And so was Harry. And I, you know, said hi to Harry and Justin
tapped me on the shoulder. I was like, Hey, like, you know, like what's up? I got to go though.
And Riggs is like, Oh my God, like Riggs is this big moon bird holder. He loves the moon birds.
He loves proof. And he's like, I've never met the team. So it was like this wonderful moment
of serendipity. When after that I'm texting with Riggs, I was getting ready to go to this other
event that I was, uh, that we didn't end up getting into and I was like hey you just want to meet up for a drink
before we go to this other event like for whatever reason I was like let's you know Riggs like you and
me like let's just go have a drink and then we'll go into this other event and he's like totally
down like looking forward to it and as I'm texting Riggs I get a DM from Justin it's like hey what
are you up to tonight and I was like oh man like you know I was just figuring it out and find out
that he's you know he's hanging out or whatever and so i said
to rigs i'm like hey it was like this wonderful like one of those the universe's conspiring
serendipitous moments where i'm like okay i have rigs who i'm texting with right now to meet up
he just mentioned he wants to meet the moonbirds team it hasn't or the proof team i was like dude
let's let's run this so uh so we met up at the uh hotel we got
there at the same exact time we took uber same exact time and it was just one of those like
wonderful like serendipitous like power of irl moments that i don't know i want to hit on that
very briefly too where it's just like look like it's something powerful about that can't be
replicated virtually it just can't i i like i get the back and forth i respect that conversation we can do better
virtually we can do more but i i think what you just described like i just i don't know riggs do
you do you see any world where you have that intimate uh evening and in conversation with uh
with the moonbirds seem like that in any sort of virtual environment no no chance i mean it was one of the and i say that
because that there were parts of it that you go into these things where for lack of a better word
fanboying right because i i i love that team i believe in them so much um i i just i love the
community can i can i can i make a bold take before you go on? Yeah.
You went into it as a fanboy and now you're probably like, huh, they're just, they're real human beings.
They're just people.
And actually we'll probably have a lot in common.
Like, and not that you, not that you're not a fan, but did it go more from a, like a fan
boy to more of a friendship type relationship?
Absolutely.
I mean, Justin and I, first off, the fact that he
stands up, he gives me a huge hug, knows who I am. Like whether we follow each other, whether we
were talking, like he knew who I was to the point where he was like, oh yeah, you're on Coffee with
Captain Light. You've got the Gutter Cat as your PFP. Like he knew who I was. So that was like,
cat is your pfp like he knew who i was so that was like oh this is freaking awesome and then we sat
there and spoke one-on-one for like 45 minutes talking about life uh families moving a crew you
know that how he's doing in la as well as web3 stuff but you just don't get that there. And then, you know, Kevin comes in, I got, I kind of
said, Hey to him briefly. And then as we're kind of getting ready to leave, I go over there and
we start to have a conversation and, uh, he really came at me. You know, I was like, you know, I've
made a big bet on you guys. I I'm so excited for what you're building. He goes, I hope it wasn't
too big of a bet. And I hope that we haven't let you down uh because i care about you as a human i was like oh my gosh that's
amazing and then obviously i'm a massive aka stevie fan i think she's one of the greatest
hires they could have had she does an unbelievable job building the culture out. And that was one where I really felt like she really, her and I
have had conversations and DMs, stuff like that before. And I felt like our friendship forged
last night. So again, yeah, you're a hundred percent right. I went in nervous, anxious,
It's fan boring, but I walked out and was like, man, these are just really good people.
fan boring, but I walked out and was like, man, these are just really good people.
I got to meet so many others of the team as well, not just those three.
And so it was just it was an unbelievable time that I don't believe we could simulate in the metaverse quite like in real life.
I mean, it's just one of those things that that's why I'm here is for these types of interactions.
Cap, I just posted the top, by the way, or I'm trying to post the top here in a second.
The live coffee with Captain event.
I just I basically mocked up something on Camelot.
Today on coffee.
Art with Steve.
I'm ordering my I'm ordering my Uber right now to go meet with Juan.
So I'll be on listen mode kind of in a minute or like we'll see what happens as I exit.
But I did just like toss together that like graphic real quick.
Hopefully I can do the POAP later.
I just got a lunch meeting put on my calendar.
So I'm going to be out of the office for a little bit here.
But yeah, I just um it is one of those wonderful it was funny because kevin's uh
kevin apparently you know kevin was uh upstairs in his room and he was um you know like kind of
on his computer doing some work and his wife was like everybody is downstairs at this hotel like
let's go downstairs so she kind of dragged him out of bed he came downstairs to meet with the
team and everything which was awesome um not dragged him he was happy to do it but no it was
a good time.
And it's, again, what you just said, Cap,
and that's what I want to hit on before I kind of go run to my, you know,
my meeting and I'll be on listen mode and pop in when I can is, like,
there is that, like, power of Web3 and IRL, just IRL in general,
that you just can't replicate.
You just can't.
Because to your point, like, you cannot.
There's just, there's no way to do what they did right it's just that period like like i would not be texting with rigs happen to have
this moment of serendipity with justin's reaching out and then suddenly we end up like you know in
a bar with like you know the moonbirds team and some close you know friends of theirs and like
we're just chopping it up and you know having the opportunity to like deepen those relationships um you, in a good way, not like in a disingenuous way, not like I'm networking with them because I don't, you know, there's no sort of, you know, it's not that I don't appreciate or anything like that.
But it's just, you know, it's not that I'm trying to like get something out of them. It's not extractive. It's just, wow, like these people, we're all in this industry together. We're all doing this this thing together we're all trying to move towards the same goal of this big web three thing and i'm
getting to meet with them irl and have these conversations like that never would have happened
because like you know like everybody's busy they're doing work during the day it's a reason to be in
the same place at the same time and the last thing i'll say before um i you know i jump from this
whole thing is like that's one of the reasons why I'm bullish on proof of conference and VCon, because the way that they're doing it, I talked to Justin about this last night, the way the reason I like VCon and the reason I'm going to like proof of conference, I think is that it's a centralized location where you want to be there for the speakers. be spending $800 on Ubers. We were in one location, in one place together,
as a group, walking around a stadium.
And Proof of Conference will be the same next year,
and Indy it'll be the same VCon.
And it's what I love about this whole thing.
So yeah, I'll leave it at that.
And then I'll probably be in a little bit.
I tossed in my headphones, I mean my AirPods,
so it might not sound quite as strong.
But yeah, Live Coffee with Captain is up there.
So if you want to like that, give it a retweet, let people know.
Hopefully there's no typos in there because I just kind of went rogue and did it.
And hopefully we're good.
It's better if there's a typo.
It'd be much more on brand.
The fact that you designed the flyer.
I feel like we're like an indie band, Steve.
Steve's designing our flyer.
We may have some custom merch that
Steve makes. Maybe we'll go to the
beach and make some little
coasters, some coffee
coasters out of some seashells or something.
We're bootstrapping this thing.
Shifting to IP here,
I did want to
go back to Jenkins real quick because I think this is like, this is one of the lead projects when we're talking about utilizing IP and leveraging IP.
And, you know, quite frankly, it doesn't get talked about enough.
You know, it has its cycles and the last cycle it was getting talked about, not for everything.
It's good, it's done. Unfortunately, it was more meme and the last cycle it was getting talked about, not for everything. It's good it's done, unfortunately.
It was more meme in the new cycle.
And this is, to Odeka's point, it wasn't just goats.
We love the goats.
But also 12 other communities.
As I mentioned, I am mobile here.
Punter, I don't know.
Are you in a spot to where you can read those 12 communities real quick?
Let's see if I can pull that up real quick.
It's right up above.
It's like the third tweet that's pinned up the top.
I just can't read it, or I shouldn't, anyways.
Yeah, so it looks like Goblin Town, Rumble Kongs, Sappy Seals, BYO Pills,
which is Psychedelics Anonymous, right? No, no which is psychedelics. That's psychedelics anonymous, right?
No, no, that is not.
That's a different.
Sorry.
And sometimes I show that I don't know every single project in the space.
But yeah, BYO Pills, Pudgy Penguins, Pernelopes, Inhabitants, The Plague NFT, The Littles,
obviously Goats, as we talked about, Bubblegum Kids and over something known as overlord xyz that
another one i don't know about it's awesome pump for the plague i i'm that's when i want i've been
i respect the community been watching uh i need to make a move i will make a move just a matter of
i'll probably be selective and get one that you know i you know personally you know resonates
with me um but punter do you i first, let's start with GOATS.
What do you, and I'm not, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here. So it's, I'm not like gonna,
this isn't a testimony. I'm not, you're not, you're not under oath, but what is the like high
level, the GOATS IP, like what kind of licensing rights do I have as a GOATS holder? Yeah, as a GOATS holder, you have full commercial
IP rights to all the GOATS you own, right? And that's always been, I mean, you know,
not to shell or whatever, but that's always been something that's been super important to Des,
our founder, and the project. When I say our founder, I just mean, you know, I'm a massive
bag holder at this point, not involved with working with the project.
But yeah, full commercial IP rights.
And, you know, and we've always encouraged people within the community to go and do stuff with it.
Like I threw a bunch of goats on beer cans.
We were trying to work with some craft breweries to get the beer launched. Drew Barman is actually for Rickhouse Dow is actually in the process of manufacturing the goat's rum,
you know, so he's putting, you know, he's modified it a little bit. He's not necessarily
using the goat on the bottle. He's sort of taken it in a different direction,
working with the project, working closely with us to, but, but, you know, there will be augmented
reality that shows the goat. There will be a QR code on the back of the bottle that sort of takes you to the OpenSea page.
So it's tied in with that.
But, yeah, no, our project's always been one that encourages people to take advantage of that IP rights, the IP rights that you have.
So, and thanks for that, Punter.
That's helpful.
I think what I wanted to point out there is that this is there's a spectrum of
rights right like punter said full commercial rights for for goats holders uh some you may see
you might have access to commercial rights with a limit with a cap might be like a hundred thousand
dollars we've seen um for some reason i think that's the number on doodles but i don't don't hold me to that um the all the way from the other end of the spectrum would be like cc zero
where it's in the public domain there's anyone can use it there's no protected right so you
certainly could use your own but so could someone else what i what i find interesting i haven't
really thought like deep enough haven't really given it a whole lot of thought other than just hearing you read that list, is there's different types of projects, including at least one CC0 project in Goblin Town in this case.
So I don't know, Steve, if you can still talk, I don't know when you have to hard pivot or maybe you're already gone.
Must have been, yeah. You're rugging Most of it, yeah.
You're rugging a little bit, Cap.
But let me just also, something that I want to add on while you're,
I know you guys are moving around a little bit today.
So if you need me to sort of chime in, I'm happy to.
But one thing I did want to add is sometimes we get questions about
like use of the GOATS logo itself.
Right. And I know certain projects like, for instance, I believe Alien Boy allows you to use like assets if you hold an Alien Boy. And I may be speaking out of turn here, but sometimes people come to us at GOATS and say, can we use the GOATS logo?
Right. And that is not included within the IP rights that you have for your GOAT.
You know what I mean?
So but other projects will allow you to use the overarching brand logo.
Right.
So even within, you know, they're like, Cap, just to your point, there are a lot of subtle
nuances within each project.
And it's definitely worth I think everybody in the space should know exactly what the
rights are
to each project before they buy in. I really do. And it's not saying that one is right and one is
wrong. They're different, right? And there's different approaches and it is important to
understand what rights you have, not just for compliance and make sure you're not violating
those, but also like you don't want to spend a whole lot of time building a brand around something
come to find out, yeah, you could build the brand brand you just can't monetize it you know like that like
there's there's a lot of opportunities a lot of great ip and you know understanding what rights
you have and then also i i think something else is even if you're not in jinkins even if you don't
hold a you know writer's room token or or or this is the first time you're hearing about that project, I would highly recommend that put that on your radar, follow it and get to understand the project.
Because they were one of the first and probably to this day still the best that has helped holders of digital assets leverage that IP.
leverage that IP. They've been a catalyst in the sense that they wrote a book featuring
IP of holders of theirs. So as they go into this new podcast with these different communities,
it's watch how they're doing it and getting ideas. This is like really content, whether it's a book
or a podcast. There's so many other ways. we're going to talk a little bit about maybe some
more tangible product and retail. But the one thing that punter said, I want to,
I want to, I want to hit on.
And then I want to go to his, because I think his, he might be,
I definitely long-time listener. I'm a fan. And, uh,
I think maybe first time caller. So, uh,
excited to go to hisizzy's Hand next year.
But, Punter, you mentioned the use of the GOATS logo, and that's exactly what I wanted to circle because it's like that with most projects.
Now, one of the reasons you also sometimes in a lot of collections merch, like, for instance, my merch hat on my Ape,
times in a lot of collections, merch, like for instance, my, my merch hat on my ape, it's a,
one of the, it's, it's a premium trait because it enables me to use the board,
APYAC club logo in only in its exact form. Like I can use, but, but if I, I don't have to blur
that out if I'm using my ape, for instance, in, in a, you know, a, a flyer for coffee with captain,
I don't have to blur out more Borde Ape Yacht Club logo.
It's in there, and I have rights to use it,
but only there.
I can't go start Borde Ape Yacht Club coffee.
That's their trademark, right?
No, and yeah, Cap,
and that's an amazing and important distinction, right?
And so early on in Goats,
before the merch store was up and running,
and this is actually the story of how I met Steve, and it's become a lifelong love affair since then,
but I actually went out ahead and manufactured small sets of Goats hats, because I wanted people
to have hats. But I had to go to Dez first and say, Dez, are you willing to give me a, you know, sort of a, you know,
an exemption? I guess that would be the word, you know. Are you, you know, because it's,
you know, the project owns that logo and all the IP associated with it. But yeah, he said,
look, I'll give you a one-time exemption because you're helping us get this off the ground.
And, you know, he allowed me to manufacture some merch. Once the store got up and running, there was no longer a need for that. So I backed away from that.
But yeah, I mean, Cap, to your point, you know, there are going to be times where people in the
community want to use the IP of the overarching brand. And, you know, I think it's important for
projects to have a stance on that. And so that, you know, people don't run afoul of certain rules
that might be in place. Yeah, well said.
And as far as I know, one of the most aggressive,
I don't know, maybe aggressive is not the right word,
but that's what Frank and Kevin,
that's what they've done with Utes is they're enabling their holders
to utilize the IP of the overarching brand.
And I think it's going to be really powerful.
I think we're going to see
some pretty incredible network effects. And I do want to come back to that. But I said it's going to be really powerful I think we're going to see some pretty incredible network effects
and I do want to come back to that but I said I want to
hear from Hizzy and then Bundy
Hizzy
like I said I'm a fan
you do some great work
I'm curious if you've leveraged
any of your IP in the space
and then I know Bundy's
has been and I'm excited to talk about that but before
we get into any of that, welcome.
Thanks for joining us and appreciate you tuning in so often and always being so supportive of our show.
It's great to finally get you up here.
I appreciate all that very much.
And this is my first time speaking.
So, yes, you are correct.
So I'm going to preface this by saying that I spent five days and nights with spotty Wi-Fi in March at South by Southwest.
And even back then, he said 99% of the people that have an IP right don't actually ever use it.
Even if they have a good idea, we don't really have the connections or the ability to go to a brand.
And I think that's exactly where you're right,
where like board jobs or Jenkins the Valet comes into play.
The community has put people in place that kind of is a go-between
between a normie like myself who may have a rare or cool IP NFT
but wouldn't know how to communicate or talk to a business type thing
and so uh i think it's going to be interesting like you're saying frank and everybody and uh
you know the youths but if they're not really providing you with with help just because they
give you this ability it is kind of like a selling point more than an actual use case
It is kind of like a selling point more than an actual use case.
I agree 100 percent. Couldn't couldn't agree more. I did pin up. I did pin up a tweet from board jobs. That's another great call out.
So this is this is my we're not going to be able to get into the depth of the conversation I'd like to have today.
This is going to inspire another future panel and we'll we'll dedicate most of the show to it uh we'll also be bringing back
some individuals that are actively building i had as even just from the thread of sending this show
out several already in the d gods and youths ecosystem uh that have been building some brands
there's there's one with there's a collaboration with Shredded Apes
and they've got, I believe, like some pre-workout
and some other stuff.
But I know this isn't novel.
We've seen this previously, but I think it's,
I think everyone says, talks about building, right?
Or to Hizzy's point, using your IP.
Well, that's great.
In theory, how do you actually do it, right?
How do you go from the idea to actually shipping a product
or standing up a business?
We have people that got here.
think about it like most people got into this space maybe they were maybe they were trading
Think about it.
Most people got into this space.
you know dogecoin or or they got in in via game stop or maybe they've been in crypto for a very
long time or maybe they were just a collectible and in whether it was top shot or or something
else from the digital collectible front made sense and it attracted me here. I forget often because my, my, you know, I'm an entrepreneur.
I've been an entrepreneur my entire life and, and, you know, have ran, you know, a business
self-employed for the majority of my professional career. And I think I forget that I'm probably in
the minority in terms of my background. And I And while I do think there is a great entrepreneurial spirit,
because I sense that, and that was one of the very first things
that really got me excited about this space.
I think proportion to just the entire population of the world,
I'd say we skew very much towards the entrepreneurial side of the spectrum
and a high percentage of entrepreneurs. But the reality is,
even those that have built businesses before or entrepreneurs, I doubt many have ever built a
brand or licensed a brand and done anything with that. Sure, there's some, but for all the tools
and education and content that we have in this space, I think this is one thing like just in the last 24, 48 hours and here in Uhyzi it even further pulled that to the surface for me that there really is a lack of guidance.
responsibility maybe for some maybe that maybe that's an idea for projects is to really help
here i'm not saying it should be up to yuga to to show me how to leverage my ip their job ended when
when they gave me the rights to that right uh it's my job to be creative and actually execute
and put that in action but i there hasn't been much that I've seen focus on that.
And I think it could be once we start seeing it, I think then it's like we've seen so much copy pasta in this world.
Once we start seeing more and more of it, I think we'll start seeing more and more of it.
I know that's a very profound statement, but.
No, Cap, I mean, it's interesting to hear Izzy say that and for you to build upon it,
because even if you go back to like the founders of a lot of these projects, a lot of founders of NFT projects have never built in real life businesses before.
Right. And then you take the member and then you know what I mean?
Like, so it's kind of starts there and then you take the membership.
Even if they wanted to, are they the most qualified person?
They're figuring out themselves. Right.
Exactly. And you know what? We're all figuring it out as we go along.
This is something I've been meaning to say for a while, by the way.
Everybody in this room, I know we're back down to 100.
We've passed our peak for the day.
But I just want to say something like if anybody ever tells you they know what the hell is coming or they know what's going on in this space, they're lying.
They're straight up lying because nobody knows.
We're all building this as we're flying.
We're building the plane as we're flying, as we like to say. And nobody really knows what comes next. Right. So I just
want to get that out of the way. But I do want to say, I usually I usually go with I build the
parachute after I jumped out of the plane. But that's that's apropos for you, my friend. But,
you know, as somebody who books a hotel room the day that he's supposed to check in.
But so just understand that even as a community member, looking at your IP and being like,
what the heck do I do with this? That's a normal question to ask. Now, I do want to go to Bundy
because Bundy and Bruce Wayne and the team, they've built a whole bunch of stuff off of their IP ip and they've worked with with goats to to do that hey bundy would you like to chime in on
this yeah what's going on fellas i wanted to jump up and uh it's cool because like the reason i
picked this goat at one time i probably had 50 goats before we started burning them and sending
them to the forge but i picked this goat because it literally has the double merch no other reason i've been in
let's call it a hundred different nft projects easily in the last two years and i found goats
to be the best community and i wanted the world to know that goats are the best community so you
know we got together we made a song we got goats out we did the video i mean it's really not that hard to brand yourself
i know that sounds crazy but like just keep doing what you're doing with things you're doing and
people are going to notice it i mean it's really that simple at the end of the day i know that
sounds kind of cliche and dumb but like if you're just doing stuff something's eventually going to
happen yeah that's uh you know it you know, it's not profound.
You're right.
I mean, it's at its core.
I feel like also you are using,
you guys are doing what you do best,
what you do in real life,
which is make frigging amazing music.
This is your strength, your competency.
This is one of your creative attributes
that you bring to the table.
And I feel like everybody in these projects has something that they do like it's something that they excel at
and I think that's where you start you know what I mean when you're looking at the IP of the
projects that you're in like what if you're an amazing musician like Bundy what if you're a
graphic designer what if you're a photographer what if you're it doesn't even matter you don't
even have to be something creative I had somebody reach out to me and we're working on something
with for goats. He owns a candy company. It's a candy company. It's, it's amazing chocolates
and caramels. He started it from the ground up. He was a, he was an attorney for 10 years. He said,
I hate this. I hate my life. He started a chocolate candy company. And he's grown it from basically selling it out of his garage to a multimillion dollar company. And he wants to do something with the goat. He wants to put his goat on some candy, like on some chocolates. And I'm like, all right, let's frigging go. So wherever you start with your IP, start close close to home start with something you excel at
something you're good at and something you're passionate about that would be my advice i love
what you just said right there because you know i am by far not the smartest person in the room
you know i'm saying and most people aren't going to be but that doesn't mean anything you know you
figure out what you can do and you bring it to the table you know that's really all that you can do at the
end of the day don't think outside don't go outside the box you have other people if you if
you in a good community i could hit a mini goats right now for anything i need and they'll help
out because they know i can't do that but if they need something for me music wise or anything from
bruce or whatever we got their back.
Yeah, no, it's awesome. It really is. And this is just, you know, we're talking goats because we're in that community, but this applies to any community across the board. I mean,
we were having this conversation with Clemente the other night. Clemente and I have been running
back a couple of spaces, really love that guy and his insight, but he's big in Deadfellas,
insight, but he's big in Deadfellas, right? And Deadfellas has been doing a bunch of different
right? And Deadfellas has been doing a bunch of different stuff, you know,
stuff, you know, leveraging partnerships, getting their IP on merch, and, you know,
the list goes on, right? So this is, you know, we're talking about GOATS right now, but it doesn't
really matter. This pertains to any community that gives you those IP rights. You can just run wild
with it. And to me, that's really been an exciting part of the space all right let me do hands um let me go uh eric and pk pkg i don't know who who was first but um
you guys know i think eric was all right we'll go eric pkg and back to hisy gm gm yeah you know
it's it's extraordinary because you know i'm mostly known as the business and go most people still call me that that there. I'm switching up for a bit like, oh, you can use the IP,
it doesn't really necessarily make me bullish for it unless there's some really unique case to the yard or it's customizable
because it's almost like the cheap way out now.
It's like, oh, we give you IP and we know that that doesn't really mean anything to us
because we don't have to do anything to help like you know make it mature
that's on you right as captain says it's like it's not their job to to find an avenue in which you
can deploy the ip it's just that they gave it to you so you know in the right cases it's bullish
but in most of the time it's like okay well you know who's even wants to leverage most art there
and then the real thing is is like yeah i mean most of the projects that
you're going into you know with people that are trying to leverage ip or do it they haven't built
companies let alone you know created their own logo and launched something versus you know hey
you know maybe that's not the right right i'll just you know snag the goats things and so it's
it's like this catch 22 where you know i, I would say, you know, there's going to be cases like, you know, Bundy's where like it really fits and that branding is niche and it works.
And then there's kind of the other side that's like, OK, well, if you are a business owner and you're good, you're probably going to want to build your branding from start.
Right. You're probably not going to want to adopt a piece of
it because, you know, unless it's a product piece or something, you know, specifically like you were
doing for beers, you know, general old stuff, I feel most business people would start, you know,
yeah, it's, it would be just as hard for me to build a brand around, you know, someone else's
logo as it would be for, for mine to start. And so, so i don't know that's just like my two cents on it but by the way i'm trying to catch your night spaces can you post about it earlier
or something because you're just kind of doing those like impromptu ones and i always like i'm
randomly browsing so i don't know if you know i'm trying to we're trying to uh we're trying to
schedule them a bit ahead of time um the saturday night one was just on the fly but yeah for sure i i feel that i do
um cap go ahead just real quick before you go to the other hands uh again welcome everyone i'm
it's awesome to hear new speakers especially uh long time uh community members and listeners
it's great to hear from you it's really uh some of my uh it's why i'm so excited to go to miami
is to to get experience what steve and Riggs were talking about earlier,
but not pushing back, but cause I, I,
I understand what Eric just said. And I, I've all, you know,
I've built, I've started a brand of my own from scratch and, and,
and built brands. I've also spent over a decade in franchising.
And I think so like the the reason that
for some it's easier to leverage another brand as opposed to starting their own is twofold one it's
you know the obvious of all they they don't you know they don't have that skill set or they're
not that that from a don't just a and a design by the time they go out and find agencies to
partner with and get work, um, you know, there's,
there's a cost associated with that if that's not their natural skill set.
So just in the actual creation of the, uh, of the,
literally the IP itself, um, that's not everyone's cup of tea, but further,
even for those that have,
like I've created my own brands and I've franchised. And I think while I could think
about spinning up a brand and I think there's two different things, like brand is different than
branding. So it would still be a new brand. If I, if I launched, let's just say a physical product.
The one I teased was like a, um, we'll use the ones that are out there from, uh, the, uh,
the youths example of the pre-workout, right? So it's a new brand, but it's, it's, it's piggybacking
off of existing IP. And I think the reason or the logic behind that is the network effects, right?
Is while you could argue today, it's outside of this space, the majority of people that are going to be shopping anywhere, they're not aware of any of these Web3 brands yet either.
brands yet either so like you go survey 100 people in the mall whether it's utes or or
captain z coffee no one's going to know of either one right it just it's not going to happen 100
out of 100 no one's going to know it maybe you get lucky and one person does but where i think
the power in lies is is over the course of say the next the next five to 10 years, and you start really realizing network effects
where it's not just one individual building a brand,
rather it's potentially thousands of individuals
building brands around this overarching IP.
It's not franchising, it's certainly different,
but I think there is some of the
same benefits or the logic, the reasons behind why we've seen franchising be successful. Why
that every single person on this stage, every single person listening in, I guarantee you
that every single one of us can go grill a better hamburger, can make a better hamburger than McDonald's.
Steve would then eat it for breakfast,
but regardless of when he eats it,
every single one of us could grill a better hamburger than McDonald's.
Just as I'm that confident,
I'm equally as confident
that not one of us has any chance of selling 99 billion hamburgers.
Right?
It's not because...
It's not because it's not because
cap you're right you're rugging a little bit who am i go ahead and take it
no you got it so i was just gonna offer a counterpoint caps because you're right and
the reason those those franchisees exceed or six or succeed is because they're not just handing you the branding, they're handing you
the SOP on how to monetize, which they've already figured out. Right. And that's the that's the
difference that's fizzy saying is like it's like it'd be like McDonald's saying, OK, here's our
logo. Go and figure out how you can brand it to make burgers around it. Right. And instead they
say, no, here's our logo. Here's our processes here. If you follow this to the T, right, here's how you run a profitable business. They're not just giving you IP. They're this, you, you can kind of build stuff around it, but they're handing you the like McDonald's or some of these, they're handing you
the soup to nuts of the monetization process. So, so they can't, right. Cause then it'd be,
it'd be a franchise or it'd be an illegal franchise trying to masquerade under a licensing
agreement. So, but, but, but, but that's where, that's where I'm hoping this conversation. And
maybe the next time we, we circle back to this and have a panel goes to is is not is getting outside the box a little bit because there are ways I
believe I believe there are ways to to do both without it just it can't be you know with franchising
it protects both parties and to your to your point there's there's SOPs there's the here's
the playbook here's how you do it it It also gives them control and protection. And in a licensing model, there's no control or protection. And once you license a brand, it's like, you can no ability to control or dictate how they use that other than, you know, you agree to in the, you know,
the use of the, of the marks or use of the license. I'm not an attorney as, as since we've,
we've already disclosed earlier, I guess, but the, you know, there is a very much so a difference
between licensing and franchising. There are other businesses that have,
well before Web3,
that have leveraged different types of licensing models
to scale and grow brands that's not franchising.
But I think there's,
I guess I'm optimistic that there's something in between.
Maybe it's a new business model
that no one's even figured out yet.
It doesn't exist.
It's not a DAO.
But there's something in between
that traditional franchising and licensing models that is somehow able to's put it on the blockchain just because.
You know, if there's no benefit or use case for it, there's no need to call it Web3. But I think in this case, this is an instance where there are some real network effects.
And what to me it is, it is that digital ownership.
I think the network effects here is the community.
The reality is they are financially incentivized to help each other out whether it's like bundy said and it's just mish mashing talents he's a musician you're an artist oh let's
let's work together um or or it's it's helping each other out in different areas of expertise
think about like that back-end corporate overhead you know the SGNA and like, you know, you may not be, uh, you know, you know, understand, uh, you know, licensing agreements, but you get an attorney
for, for certainly stuff like this, but there's, there's, I guess where I'm getting at is there's
a lot of people, there's a lot of different skill sets in this space. And I think there's potentially
some, some ways that this moves forward where it's not just licensing.
It's like licensing plus.
And it's not consulting or advising either.
But it's, I don't know.
Am I making any sense, punter?
I'm going to kick it back to you and then go to hands.
No, you're making sense.
You really are.
And it's actually a great conversation.
Maybe one we should run back another day when Steve's around, because I know he'll have a ton of thoughts on this.
Unfortunately, I got to shift gears, Cap, so please drive safely.
I know you want to run this marathon thing. You may want to grab another co-host. If you do,
please be careful. You'll probably run to hands here, but I got to shift gears. So I'm wishing
everybody a wonderful, wonderful day on behalf of Steve and I'll catch you guys tomorrow.
Awesome, Bunner. Thanks for your help. Let's go back to Hizzy, and then I want to go Packaging Disruptor, I believe it is.
And then I want to go over to Pingucci.
I'm excited.
We've been talking about Shredded Apes.
Pingucci, I'm going to put you on the spot.
We've been alluding to this future panel to go deeper on this discussion and do a deeper dive on IP.
And I'm going to ask you in front of everyone.
I'd love to invite you back to sit on that panel when we do have it have it. Hey Kev real quick I'm stepping out in a second I just
got to my meeting so I'm gonna run to that but I did want to say real quick two things
great conversation this morning we should definitely run this thing back. What I will say
is is twofold one I'll throw a turn the punch bowl of the IP thing here and say
that a lot of the brands that license IP license it at the moment to get to the person bowl of the IP thing here and say that a lot of the brands that license IP license
it at the moment to get to the person more so the IP unfortunately just because a lot of times
people license based on influence and things like that and then the second thing I'll toss out just
that's probably worth noting is you know to your point that punter said I think and you were saying
it's like the community and the value of community is important because we are incentivized to sort of lift each other off.
And it's sort of like this group thing,
but I can give more details on that based on sort of the,
some of the research I'm doing basically into sort of like sort of that
tribal culture that we're going, but I'm going to hop,
I'm going to go to my meeting,
but I just wanted to toss that in there and appreciate everybody.
And yeah, we'll,
we'll talk right and early at the live coffee with captain tomorrow morning
and we'll figure out some more logistics today. I promise. So, all right, have a good one, everybody.
Thanks, Steve.
So let's – Pinguchi, can I count on you for that panel?
You can make me co-host if you need to, Captain.
Awesome.
So let's go Hizzy and then Packaging Disruptor, Pingucci, and then Ash, I see, is actually
a IP lawyer and may have a thing or two to say on the topic.
So Hizzy, thanks for your patience.
Yeah, perfect.
I just kind of wanted to point out that there's, you know, a big, there's like kind of three
there's like kind of three or four different ways of what we're all talking about.
or four different ways of what we're all talking about.
You have somebody like Spotty who's using it as a persona,
almost like a marshmallow where he raps under his CryptoPunk IP.
He owns other apes that are his hype man or whatever.
And then you have somebody like the Board 8, which is the marijuana packaging.
Somebody like the Board 8, which is the marijuana packaging, or then you would have like a freestanding actual in real life brick and mortar business that would use it for their advertising.
And then it goes back to license it to like a corporate entity.
And then it just helps with contracts or who holds the asset.
What are the rules if someone wants
to sell it you know just all the technical sides that are very hard to deal with as well
yeah very good point several different ways to license ip and and in some cases it's going to
be the individual building it is like their personal logo their personal brand uh and it's
probably like whether he's done it or yet like i'm you
know there's probably like a spotty wi-fi llc that you know spotty's licensing his his uh ip to i'm
probably sure it's hands you know hands reach uh hands like the agreement and uh whether it's
that formalized or not the idea is like yeah there's some are going to build around build a
business or a brand around their own in other, it's actually licensing it out to others.
Steve had a good point there in today's world.
I would agree often it's to get to the individual, the influencer behind the IP, probably more
than the IP itself.
I think that changes.
And that's kind of what I'm, then I don't think it's not there yet.
We've not connected the dots.
There's been a lot of great comments.
I apologize.
I struggle to read them all today. I'll go back later.
But I've seen,
I've seen the notifications coming through and a lot of great takes.
And I think there's, there's absolutely something here.
I'm not going to claim to have all the answers, but I'm excited to,
you know, we'll talk a little bit more today,
but we're definitely going to run this one back because this is my,
my wheels are spinning. Packaging Disruptor, GM.
Thanks for jumping up.
Glad we've been able to connect here recently.
Yeah, me too, man.
GM, GM.
Real quick background on me.
Packaging Disruptor.
So spent the last five, six years in the high growth emerging CPG sector and building out
a digital manufacturing platform that catered to all the startup brands that fall into the same area of opportunity as what is being discussed this morning.
So when you threw up that post yesterday saying, hey, we're going to talk branding and IP, I think I've been waiting the last 12 months for a conversation like this.
So thanks for pulling everybody together and bringing up this subject. I just jumped into Web3 at the end of last year. So I really am not as well versed
in this space as a lot of other people are on the call. However, I would consider myself a
specialist in the things that you're talking about this morning when it comes to building startup
CPG brands. And, you know, right now, what I've been trying to wrap my head around is like the total
addressable market as we sit here today for an audience that really would be engaging
with consumer product good, consumer package good that has, you know, NFT branding on it.
I think to your point, it's pretty limited at the present moment.
At least that's my hunch.
And I'm trying to, you know, really get a better grasp on what that looks like. And I don't know how to size it up. On the flip side, I agree that, you know, this is a space that we know is
still in its infancy stage at the present moment. You know, most, I can tell you this much, when you
go to the packaging industry, 99.8% of people don't understand web3
They think blockchain is cool. They think oh, we can make pet, you know blockchain power packaging. That's great
But they don't have the first idea of how to stitch it together
So again going back to what you've been speaking about pulling like-minded people together is the opportunity I see right now
I think you know
You called it out you wanted to maybe circle back to this
subject and put together a panel. I'd love to have the opportunity to unpack this a bit more
with a group of people that really want to tackle how to bridge this gap between Web3 and consumer
packaged goods. I don't know if anybody else on here today saw the post that Solana Spaces threw up yesterday, but Solana Spaces was hosting all of the large CPG players, Nestle, P&G.
I don't know who else was there, but there was a bunch of large CPG at the New York Solana Spaces yesterday.
So the movement's coming. We see large retail or apparel brands like Nike that are investing. And there is a tremendous amount
of opportunity here. So I just want to share those thoughts. And I'd love just the circle back cap
when you're ready. You know, I'd love to participate from the lens of somebody that
understands the emerging high growth CPG space quite well, has supported many entrepreneurs with visions that weren't even
a product, but helped. We probably have five or 10 clients that went to Shark Tank over the last
three years, and it all started with a vision. There was nothing tangible at the time. We launched
them, they got going, and they hit product market fit. That's what it's all about at the end of the
day. So I'd love to just continue this discussion thanks for yeah no i thanks for jumping up and
absolutely i would take you up on your offer i would like to do it sooner than later i don't
i want to talk to steve maybe we can fit it in next week obviously as he mentioned we're going
to do our live uh show at art basil tomorrow morning uh that that location's pinned up above
but yeah i i would um i definitely want to continue this conversation, do the deeper dive and, and, and not so much, maybe yes, it'd be a panel, but
not a, uh, not a, not a, not so much a Q and a discussion or AMA type panel, rather almost like
a working session, um, to kind of start, you know, whiteboarding some ideas. I think there's a lot of
great minds. And to your point,
yes, we need experts in pulling all the, in a CPG world, the product together. And then there's two sides of it, right? Is it distribution, I think is also going to be a big challenge for many in
the space. And even making those, do you want, is it e-commerce play? Are you going D2C? Or
are you going to go the route of trying to secure some retail distribution and go wholesale?
And even just saying that, recognizing that a lot of people probably have never even thought
about that.
You know, do I go retail or wholesale and thought about margins?
And I just, I think kind of like some Bella throughout, just like some basic, you know,
business startup courses could be great utility for some of these projects.
I don't know if any that have done that or have that baked into their utility of their,
you know, if you're a holder, if you hold their NFT or their pass, if that's something
that's offered today, I'm not aware of it.
But I think it's, yeah, I think it's interesting.
And whether it's built exactly like that, or it's more so open to the space at large,
I think there's certainly some demand for it.
Yeah, I think to that point, man, I'm with you. Not a panel, but like a spitballing session,
you know, and like we're doing right now. You bring up a great point. And I would say that,
you know, my experience, we saw a major shift of going direct to consumer with CPG brands,
shift of going direct to consumer with CPG brands and the pandemic has accelerated that.
So that was starting to build up back in like 17, 18. But when pandemic hit, it really led to where
these small brands that were anywhere from sub million dollars revenue to five million dollars
revenue, even brands that, you know, were 10 to 15 million of revenue, their direct to consumer
channel grew to over 50% of their revenue.
And as you just called out, margins are significantly greater in the D2C space.
The headache and the energy and time that goes into trying to chase down retail partners,
what you could do at that time when it comes to building direct-to-consumer with just channels
like TikTok, here on Instagram Instagram and other socials,
that same energy is going to yield a ton more of a return on investment of time
going directly to consumer where you control your own destiny.
So there's a lot to spit about it.
I'll let you, you know, whoever wants to jump on and talk next.
I'd love to just keep, you know, dropping, talking this because this is a, there's a
multi-billion dollar market cap opportunity when it comes to what we're talking about.
And you look out five to 10 years, have been looking at Richie and Half-Baked, bought a
couple of tokens in there just because I think he's onto something great and, you know, could
be proven out concept.
So, yeah.
Anyway, I agreed. Also agreed also followed a few of those
i think whether it's jenkins or richie and half baked i applaud all the leaders that are taking
shots right no one knows the exact route or the best how all this is going to play out but those
that are those that are you know really building taking taking some shots it's uh you know hat
tipped all of them let's go ash i see the hand up let's go ash then
uh pingucci and then cody and then we'll probably start to wrap this thing up but uh ash thanks for
jumping up gm yeah hey guys good morning um long time listeners it's pleasure to finally uh be up
here with you guys so thanks for having me uh uh as an ip lawyer you can probably appreciate i have
thoughts for days on all this stuff so i would love to join you guys for the future,
and I'll just keep it relatively brief.
Just one quick note, I think, of interest,
based on what Packaging was just saying.
There's this actually great long-form piece I just read
about the change in branding and community
called Life After Lifestyle by Toby Shore,
and I don't know if anybody's got
a chance to check that out, but it's, uh, if you're interested in that side of the convo,
have that. But anyway, um, yeah, no. So I look such a great conversation. Um, I, I, as an IP
lawyer, I see a lot of this and I, and, you know, I advise on, uh, founders and stuff. And,
you know, one thing I, I sort of often repeat to my clients is I'm like,
look, it's no longer really about getting in, but standing out, right? Like, how do you
distinguish yourself? And part and parcel with that is funny enough, I just had, I literally
just posted something yesterday that something to the effect of like, you know, commercial rights
are only as valuable as your ability to exploit them. And so I do think that there is a hurdle that that holders encounter in terms of
like, OK, I have this privilege, but now now how do I get there? And we've obviously been talking
a little bit about that. But a common mistake I often see is is sort of holders going for the
big kahuna licensing deal when it's rather unrealistic in a lot of a lot of times and
i think that oftentimes they'll they'll do better in sort of having a multitude of micro and cross
licensing where they're sort of reaching across laterally rather than vertically to to sort of
team up with fellow holders or brands to build but the the one thing i sort of wanted to go back
with i was thinking we've talked a lot about it like the the top level branding thing and it's interesting because there's like there's
this like trademark conundrum that that you know us lawyers will kind of talk about often at the
project level and oftentimes why you will see projects bestow copyright commercial rights but
not trademark rights it's because there's this
concept in trademark law called the naked licensing sort of doctrine, which is basically
says that like, you have an affirmative obligation as a trademark owner to police the quality of the
goods and services that are sort of utilized under that mark. So if a brand actually bestows the right to use the brand level mark on NFT
commercial rights, they run the risk of actually having the trademark itself canceled or be
unenforceable. And that can be like a vulnerability and danger to the project because you can imagine
if that's the case, if they just give out like carte blanche permission to use the brand um even into the holders and it
renders the trademark ineffective then like anybody could come along and make anything
salacious that may not be on brand you know bullshit racist material whatever stuff like that
so there's just always this conundrum and then something i think about this is the last last
point i'll make and i'll and i'll leave it for another day, but like there's this sort of ubiquity conundrum that I kind of think about in terms of like when you have 10,000 people utilizing the same brand generally, like does it ultimately license itself out of sort of relevance um
and and like you know where everything becomes sort of oversaturated by that brand i don't think
we've reached that i haven't seen a brand do that yet but it's something i think about quite often
and then like the only other thing i'll think about and i think eric was making this point
which was which was you know it was definitely a valid point, in my opinion, about like building your own brand versus leveraging someone else's brand is one of the dangers in
that is, is like you think about, I'm going to use like a really dumb example. And I get that
it's a franchise and not like an open brand, but, but like, if you think about it, if you,
if you're tying your ship to the Subway sandwich brand, right. And then one Subway or two Subways
in Minot, North Dakota gets get Salmonella or whatever.
Like the subway in Washington, D.C. suffers as a result of that.
They're like, fuck, I'm not going to that.
I'm not trying to get Salmonella.
Now, I know that's like a hyperbolic example, but, you know, I guess what I'm getting at is there are definitely aspects to branding and trademarking and associating your brand that need to be thought through on a strategic level.
So, you know, I love the conversation. Thanks for having me. I'm happy to stick around or join the next one.
Awesome. Appreciate jumping up. Great insight.
And we'll like you to take you up on that as well as appreciate all the others that have reached out in the comments and offered to join that panel.
So stay tuned. We'll look to get something out next week, whether we to, to join that panel. So stay tuned.
We'll, we'll, we'll look to get something out next week, whether we do it next week or,
or get out a future date. Let's go to Pinguchi. If you can talk, I, you, I threw out my tweet
yesterday about this Utes IP and wanted to do something with a, you know, what inspired my,
my three purchases. Why I can't say the three, the second two were inspired by wanting to do something in the health fitness protein shake pop-up shop.
You know, the idea is percolating around that space.
And I don't know, maybe a dozen or two dozen people probably tagged me and told me everything that you're doing with Shredded Apes and Shred Labs.
And so I'm going to turn it over to you.
Great to connect.
I don't know, somehow you hadn't, I don't think could come across my radar.
I wasn't familiar.
I've done some high level. I'm on this space actually can you guys hear me yeah we can welcome
thanks for joining my no no problem no problem glad to be here uh thank you for having me guys
uh so yeah i am uh the shredded apes founder uh and we have actually created our nutrition brand around our NFT project, which is called Shred Nutrition.
We even have our own Shred services with professional health coaches, etc.
But I'll try to kind of explain what has been working for us and how we have been approaching the whole IRL product thing in the Web3 space and what has been working for us up
until now. So like what we kind of have leveraged until now is our brand partner program. So we
leveraged other people's IPs or IPs of other NFT projects, Web3 brands, and created these awesome collaboration products like we did with
dgots we created a dpump pre-workout we actually have another product coming for youths as well
but this is something for in a few weeks anyway um this is the first uh infrastructure that we set in place to kind of leverage not our own IP really, but other IPs.
And that has worked really well to get the attention to our brand.
And this is something we will be further scaling down the road for sure.
And then there is the new multi-level marketing approach that we'll take.
Starting from today, actually, we're rolling out our ambassador hub.
And this is really going to be...
This is so interesting.
I think I said last week, I'm surprised we haven't seen more of like a direct sales
or a multi-level marketing, direct work marketing product approach in this space.
So is it a true multi-level comp structure
or is it more of direct sales 1099 commission?
Yeah, it's actually not yet a multi-level marketing structure,
but we are creating a multi-level infrastructure right now
and through the Ambassador Hub,
which we will be launching today um this will be like the first level of our multilevel marketing infrastructure that we will
be implementing over time uh so like the first level is pretty basic and comes down to an affiliate
model really uh but then again we don't want to make it too complicated for our community members to understand how they can earn from our brand, potentially.
And then we'll kind of broaden out those levels and scale those levels out over time because there is obviously multiple directions you can go for.
So we keep it simple for now.
But the Ambassador Hub really is where we will introduce the first level of our multilevel marketing.
And this is something where we definitely want to go to.
But then again, we were actually talking to a big nine-figure nutrition brand that we are about to sign a deal with them.
We are about to sign a deal with them.
And this is kind of contradicting with the multilevel marketing infrastructure
that we're wanting to implement for Shreddaves right now,
because this would mean that we would have our products in big retail players.
I don't want to start dreaming, but let's say Walmart, for instance.
We got products at Walmart, but with this multi-market infrastructure
where we have the whole community kind of growing the brand together with us, where we have all these affiliates, ambassadors, associates working with us, this kind of contradicts us.
So we're kind of holding off on that deal because we really want to see where this multi-level marketing approach goes.
And the way I see it and the whole team sees it right now we
we really have high hopes how this how this can develop and we think that if you go look at
affiliate marketing how big the industry is in web2 i i think it's something that hasn't really been
uh properly um executed in web3 and the thing is it it gets a bit more complicated with Web3.
And there are more possibilities and dimensions in Web3
to the affiliate model, in my opinion.
At least that's what I learned.
I do have an e-commerce background,
a marketing and e-commerce background
before I started ThreadApes.
So I kind of feel like a fish in the water here.
But yeah, this is how we've been approaching it and how we plan to scale our brand as well.
Like you guys said, with the IP, it's easy to throw out an IP out there and give it to the people.
But then again, they don't know how to market it, what to do with it.
And this is
essentially like how we try to counter that through our ambassador hub because this will really be
a hub where people have all the resources all the sales trainings even um um and and have all the
tools accessible to them to properly to properly do something with our products
and brands and potentially
earn from that as well together
with us and grow the brand together with us.
It's really interesting.
Thanks for sharing and I'm looking forward
to learning more.
I think you're on to something.
Because we were just talking, there needs
to be more tools,
more support for how to,
how to monetize your IP,
how to build a brand, how to,
and we were talking different distribution models.
And while yes, retail and e-commerce,
those are two models.
Direct sales and affiliate marketing is another that is,
to your point, it's a massive market it
gets a bad rap um it gets a bad rap i don't look at it i think it's it's um uh no that's it gets a
bad rap because unfortunately with you know what one you know bad actor can can really spoil an entire industry.
And that's why we kind of also like limit ourselves to who can be an ambassador, who can be an affiliate.
And there will be a clear difference
between an affiliate and an ambassador
because we still kind of want to control
what's being put out there, right, in our name.
So you kind of give it out to the people,
but we want those people who are kind of wrapping
our brands wrapping our products our services uh we want those people to be properly educated to
to have to have had the proper sales training stuff like that and it's all very important in
the whole process because as you said it yourself if you don't if you don't give the people the tools to properly uh market your brand or ip
or product or whatever it is then they'll just be shooting around in the wild and i mean there is no
no use to that so i think it's really important to guide those people and to to educate them
um as as as good as possible yeah, no, it's really interesting.
My wheels are spinning.
I haven't even been like the idea of like the creator economy.
You know, I just hadn't this thought hadn't hit me yet, but like a large part of what I would say is like the driving ethos behind the theory of network marketing, the model of network marketing or multilevel marketing.
It really is – there's a lot of similarities to the – some of the ethos of Web3 in terms of the creator economy, like eliminating the middleman and putting – and know and so there's there's i i do i
think you're really on to something there not not all network marketing companies are created equal
some are straight pyramid schemes but i but i i think for the most part it's it's um it doesn't
get as much credit as it should as a a very uh effective business model and especially in terms of distribution of products
and scaling the brand indeed yeah i i believe so too uh and yeah we will see how it goes uh like
i said the brand partner program has been working very well for us uh like levering out out other
projects ip they're always very much interested in joining us, creating these projects with us,
which gives us a broader audience as well. And this is how we have been scaling through Web3,
but right now we really have goals of broadening out the brand in Web2 as well.
The initial plan was to do this, like I said, with the deal we have on the side,
and we wanted to go for big retail,
but then we started looking at the multi-level
marketing structure.
And this is something that seemed more interesting to us,
certainly if you look at the current Web3 space.
I think that the multi-level marketing just makes
a lot more sense in Web3 than it does in Web2.
If you go look it up on Google, and I know Herbalife, it has a bad connotation to it,
but it is the biggest nutrition brand out there, and that's for a reason, right?
And I mean, they're pretty old and boring, and their multi-level marketing structure might be a little bit biased or that might have
a bad connotation to it but i think in web3 it's it's a whole different uh game and it's a whole
different culture and and i think that's what really lacking web2 right now and for this
particular model this multi-level marketing thing i think Web3 is the ideal playing field to start with, really.
Yeah, I didn't have anything else to save anyone.
Cap, you're rugging a little bit.
Let's see if Cody can get up here.
Cody, are you available to speak?
I know you've been waiting for a while.
Oh, yeah, I kind of put my hand down.
I'm driving also.
I don't know if I've got a ton to add, but a long time list.
I don't know if I've ever spoken either.
But just a little bit of background.
I'm a product marketer.
Bunch of rug.
Cap, you're rugging hard.
Go ahead, Cody.
I see you unmuted.
I'm not hearing you.
Might be on my end.
Yeah, you're rugging.
Okay. Cap, can you? Go ahead, Cody. end yeah you're rugging okay yeah go ahead um yeah no i think we're circling circling a lot of the the same points here i i worked at i've been leading product marketing teams at a bunch of
enterprise sas companies for a long time and um and i see a lot of uh a lot of analogies or
there's a a lot of similarities here between like when product marketing teams
enable large sales teams. And I think that's like a really big missing component that we've got
kind of in Web3. Like you're kind of saying, like you can't just drop a logo, drop a brand kit and
expect people to actually be able to leverage it in the best way possible. You've got to actually
have some of that enablementment and um i i'm super
bullish on this advisor hub and and like building out playbooks and and like how how can how can
your holders support your brand and how do you create that flywheel so that they're talking about
your brand make it easy for them make it easy for them to start brands um but that's that's kind of
my my quick two cents if it's but i know it's kind of repeated, but yeah, no, I appreciate it.
Cap, you're back.
He's still being rugged over there.
Bundy, I got a question for Panguchi while we're waiting on Cap, but that's cool.
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, so Panguchi, first first off my head went to herbal
life too when you were talking about affiliate marketing i think um the opportunity there is
also massive um just the amount of affiliates that are earning hundreds of thousands of dollars per
year because they put in the work to go out and compound a customer base at the end of the day
so you're definitely on to something big.
Question for you, you're talking collabs, I think, with other Web3 brands.
Are you starting to roll out limited products that are collabs?
Can you expand on that?
Yes.
You can, by the way, find this on our web shop.
So this is shreddeddapes.shop. As simple as that.
And then you'll see we already have several products.
I'll throw them up here.
So we have Catalina Whey, for example.
We have Boryoko Vegan Protein.
We have Builders Whey with Bloxmith Labs.
We have D-Pump with D-Gods.
We have Jelly Amino Energy with Jelly eSports.
So we have been doing this for a while now.
And we haven't yet really started pushing this program.
Most of these collaborations have grown organically.
And right now, we are setting up several pitches
and workflows for our...
