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Danish the dingdong corrections, say no to paper gold
Recorded: July 20, 2025 Duration: 2:48:55Space Recording
Full Transcription
I'm not the one who's got the
answers.
What is up? What is up? I love talking to Donish. Okay, when I want to go into
my my old dictionary and look for some dumb fucking ideas, I go into one of Donish's rooms. I'm
so sorry. I just couldn't help it. Oh my god. Uh, paper gold. That is just so funny. What's up,
Darth? What is happening, my man? Not paper gold, man. I mean, dude, I'm still laughing my ass off.
I'm tears and eyes. But you know what? He's come a long way, man. A long way, man. A very long way.
I I wanted to ask the question: Are you self-custodying that Bitcoin? But I didn't want to stick it
to him. You know, let's let's let's walk before we run. Oh my God! Please don't do that.
Let me get him to 100 first. I'll get him to sell that company. Watch. I hope so, man. I hope so.
Yeah, man. That XRP debate was killing me. But I I was very comforted by the discussion
around quantum. I've been kind of Saying the same thing, right? Like I just feel that a lot
of the quantum stuff is a grift. And if we're an attack vector, I mean, come on, it's silly.
If we're like, we can't possibly be the end goal. So it just it's it's illogical. And quite frankly,
if we have to worry about that, why? I can't worry about everything, dude. No.
If we have to worry about that, I'm like, okay, I'm going to be having nuclear-powered rockets
shot up my ass, and I don't even know it. Right. I mean, so true. And and and the point being made,
hey, look, if if they can attack, you know, shot two fifty six. Then I would think
that Bitcoin would be the last problem we have on our radar right now, bro.
We're going to be like probably comatose on sitting on a bed somewhere,
thinking we're having sex with a redhead, and when truth, we're just you know we're we're
the core product to mine Bitcoin, sitting in a little matrix. Yeah, that was wild, but no,
it's good space, man, and it's really good to see Donish coming around.
He's he's come a really long way in a short period of time, so just shows the power of Bitcoin,
brother. Well, and I think it shows you also the power of really good debate. Because you know, hey,
there's a lot. There was twelve, thirteen hundred people in there. You hear a debate like that
that's run well, and you know he even, you know he's got clearly his vocal capability is better
than his his ears, but he he you know he he he couldn't defy three
or four different different people telling him all the same thing, right?
Hitting them from different angles, and he's inquisitive, he's curious. That's freaking necessary.
You got to be curious. Hey, what what do these people know that I don't know?
So I think that's the power of all us coming together. That's really cool, man.
His life will be changed forever, bro. Yeah, no, and and hey, Gary, sorry, yeah, yeah, Gary,
can I can I jump in? I've been I was listening to the space, and I don't think Donish knows I have
a new profile yet. And he said something at the very end has nothing to do with Bitcoin,
but I think it's really dangerous for young people. Like it's really good for young people
to be go getters, but you know, you probably know people, or you have,
or some of the people on panel. I've been in many, many equity deals. Okay, uh, 23 I think total,
and out of the 23, four of them. Had an exit, right? Four of them did well. Four of them went.
One of them went public, right? Um, it is very, very risky to go into a company and be like, "Hey,
um, you know, just give me equity." Do you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's.
I think when they said, "If you're a young person, you should go out and do this." Yeah,
be a go-getter, but just keep in mind the risk. Like, you need to know the company.
You need to realize you're not making all the decisions. You need to realize
they need to be well funded in order for certain things to happen. And I think that last comment was
a bit dangerous if a lot of young people are listening. That's all. Wait, the comment I made, Joa?
No, I think Donish said it that if you're a young person, you should go out and say, you know,
that you'll work for like the minimum, but just you know, for more equity. That was my. Oh, sorry.
Yeah, I mean, in talk to you about that. Yeah, I mean, in theory, I think it's great,
but I've done it. Like I've done, I've done a lot of jobs where I was either on the board
or consulting, and I would be like, look, I'll waive my fee and I'll take equity
because I believe in the company. But then you realize that, you know, they have seed funding,
decision making. You don't know that well yet. How good they're going to be.
And out of the twenty some, I got lucky. Four of them were huge. One of them was one
of the biggest fintech companies in the world. So I got lucky, right? But you know,
Gary put his work in. He probably started when the company was early. He probably did really well.
A lot of people I know did really well. Seventeen years, right? You got to put it
in time perspective. Seventeen years. I mean, it's it didn't happen overnight. Yeah, exactly,
exactly. But a lot of people will go to a startup and be like, "Oh, I'll work for equity." You know,
more than likely, that's not going to pan out. That's all I'm saying. Jason, I think.
Joel brings up, you know, a good point, which is if we're going to have that conversation, hey,
join a company. Like almost every job I've ever gotten, I literally walked in going, dude,
I'm working here, and I don't care if I have to work here for free. I am working in this crew,
and that's really I did not understand the MBA's setup first place. However,
I do not see a scenario unless the family he came from wealth. I could see a smart parent saying,
hey, I'll I'll take care of my kid for three years while he's becoming a an apprentice.
And he can pay me back instead of sending him to college. That now that is all day, all smart.
But I think the point Joe is trying to make, Jason, is let's say I join a startup.
I don't really understand the dilution on the paper. I'm offered something. Is it net income?
Is it gross income? Is it gross? Is it class B? Is you know, I mean, is it? And by the way,
I have done nothing to earn this yet, and I'm not making any money. I don't know how that employee,
although it's an awesome story, you know, at some point most people need some base pay. Yeah,
unfortunately, the minimum. That that was the point. It was about accepting the minimum. Yeah.
For some period of time, Joa, and again, well, see, this is what I would like to talk about now.
What what is that minimum? What What do you think is a right rate? For a kid 20 years old,
and let's say that you have a business. Pardon? I think it depends what field, right? What field
or industry you're working in. So that that's important. Well, I mean,
this kid should go to just the most highly paid one, right? Because he has no skill,
so it doesn't really matter. So let's just pick any field and go through. You know what?
What a one percent in a car wash would be. Yeah, that doesn't work. What you're saying doesn't make
any sense. Like I have no skills, so like I'm saying, like I'm 22 or 23,
and I have a sphere of expertise. These kids today are different than us, Gary.
They could be experts in, you know, prompting AI. They could be, they could understand the internet
forward and backwards. They could be coders, self-taught or you know, picked it up.
They have skills. I'm just saying they have no experience. So you find someone who has
a tremendous autistic talent. And you're willing to bring them on, mentor them, refine them,
and give them equity and some compensation. I'm not saying it's—it may be close to six figures
because that's what people need to survive. I'm—I'm a bit out of touch with that.
Although I've got a thousand employees right now, I have—you know—in my companies,
I have a thousand employees. But it has to do with those are professional employees.
Most of them are licensed, so I—I'm. It depends on which where we are, Gary,
in terms of the industry. Well, most 19 and 20 year olds have—they—they have zero license. Okay.
And they have, you know, maybe they have some great skills, but what I'm looking for—well,
I don't even know what I'm looking for. Okay, I just know that everywhere around me,
when Dustin's around me, he's like, "Wow, man, there's so many opportunities everywhere. Oh my god,
oh my god!" And neither one of us can bring on enough people that don't drain
the piggy bank so hard that I just end up going, "Bro, I think I'll just do Bitcoin." And Gary,
I think that's part of the fact that America has gone from being like a productive economy
to a speculative. Economy. So if you're graduating like top of your class in Harvard
and you're not going to Wall Street, I don't know what you're doing, right? Because that's
where you're going to make the most money, right? Because that's what America does today,
and that's what drains all the brain drain goes to speculation, the speculation market.
So it's really hard to attract talented people into like an AI company or well,
there's not going to be a lot of people hiring on Wall Street, bro. Okay, I mean,
little Johnny Robot Head getting ready to come to the market. I think they're
they're probably deploying massive amounts of capital, big old capital write-off for deployment
into robots. Gary Goldman, Goldman just had two years ago. They were paying interns 125k in the UK,
which is typically half of what it is in the US because they couldn't get people
that want to give up 16 hour a day work at Goldman Sachs because they don't realize what
they're getting into. And now people do because they go to TikTok, they see what it's like
to work in investment banking, and they're like, "Fuck this! I'm not working 16 hours a day." Right?
So they need to give out 125k. Yeah, so it messes up the market completely. I mean,
you're you're not wrong. The opportunity there are we are in like one of the greatest transitions
in history, on tech, on AI and systems. Like period, there is literally money
floating around anywhere for anybody who just dials in and learns some of the skills.
It's never been easier to code. It's never been easier to figure shit out.
You don't need to go to Wall Street to like figure all this stuff out. Like find a good group.
There's so many good groups now. Like you don't need to go to Goldman.
Like there are so many opportunities. It's crazy. But like Gary said. Like the bare minimum is
too much for a lot of people, right? They they come in with these wild expectations
and like problems, right? They just they don't even know what they want. They just want more,
and they don't want to have to do anything in return. They don't have to do any of the sacrifice
or the work. It's hard to find good people, but they're out there too, right? Like.
Some of it needs to be right. Like I get both sides of it. That we also need people who lead
and are inspirational and are patient to teach people and bring them along. So right, it's a combo.
There's tons of bad people though. It's really hard to find somebody who can focus.
Everybody's so distracted, it's crazy, and it feels like they're just. I would hire.
So so distracted, man. I mean, and my superpower is hey, I just do a couple of things
and I do them really well. I don't have superpowers like Jason, thousand lawyers,
thousand companies, thousand K ones. Um, I'm I and probably his return might be double mine.
I don't like it though, Gary. But keep going. I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy it.
And I'm tickled pink with oh wow! I only have four investments. And none of them keep me up
at night. In fact, I'd love to, you know, grind that down to two. I would love to be able to employ
some people to create something that I could support with my name. But gosh,
if I have to do everything, accept every email, go to every appointment, be the speakerhead,
get on a fucking airplane and give speeches, why the fuck are you here? Like, I, like,
you know what I'm saying? I don't. I mean, I think this is why. I would love to meet
all these people, but I don't see it, and I, I think it's because the thirst isn't there.
Just the sheer thirst of of and like I think they're thirsty, Gary. The problem is,
is they go to TikTok and they they hear that you're supposed to open up five companies
and have five revenue streams, and then you turn them into residual income and blah blah blah. So
while they're at work, they're working on how to figure out how to make
residual income because that's what they've heard for the past ten years.
And that's what messes them all up. There's no focus. Like no one realizes that the difference
between them and Beyonce is Beyonce started singing at 14 and didn't stop until she became XXX
at 30. Well, see that one story though. That's the problem. Yeah, but that one story tells me
that somebody should be coming up with, oh wow, there's a gap. There's
no authentic training programs to help young men and women to properly get educated to learn what
it takes instead of it being a parasitic system from a dick fucking flaunting his own ego.
That's all that tells me, Joa. Is that hey go create again? Yeah, hundred percent.
They listen to people like Gary Vaynerchuk telling them they need five streams of income.
Blah blah blah blah. You know what I mean? Where he made his money in doing one thing,
and then after he had his money, he spread his wings. I'm sure. Wait, wait, wait.
He made his money from his dad giving him a wine business. But go ahead, Joe. Exactly,
he focused on turning the wine business into online business, right? Which he was one of the first.
So he got he was at the right time, right place, and he did it well, right?
He did growth marketing really well through email because people weren't getting spammed about
their their cousin who was a prince in Nigeria at the time. So emails were being opened,
so it worked. That's where he made his money. Now he has multiple businesses.
Probably just like you, Jason, you probably made your money in one thing,
and then after having the money, then you spread out. And these these kids aren't getting
that education. They're getting the final part of wealth. They're not getting the first part
of wealth. Which is focus, focus, focus. But what's funny is I had this conversation with Gary over
the weekend because I I think the false expectations and the the bad advice that people are getting
as they try to figure it out in what is a historic opportunity for like there has never been
an opportunity for somebody without a ton of skill to advance. Hey, before you give them
all your alpha, make them repost the room. There's 13 measly reposts. Let's get a bunch of people
in here. We're gonna educate some people today, okay? Like I I think that's what we should do.
Talk about what you don't know about you know. Or let's let's. I'd like to talk about some
of these myths, Jason. Where you know what I'm saying, guys? That where we can take these out out
of the right framing. Kid working at McDonald's with no ambition. I mean, you know,
he needs to find a better job and some education, right? So anyway, Dustin, go ahead.
I just like everybody to repost the room and get it bigger. No, listen. I I think. I love this.
I I want to do even more than just the spaces, right? I think we need to figure out how to create
compelling video content around this. And to be honest, I don't even care about monetizing it.
I just want to see people have the opportunity. So as far as advice goes, a lot of
and Gary's gonna hate this, but a lot of the boomer advice no longer applies, right?
The the idea that you can go work two seven eleven jobs and be able to build up enough to be
able to Like really build a life out with a family and the whole deal.
That part of the deal is no longer really applicable for most people. So you've got to learn. Well,
can we can we raise the bar though a little bit because I don't think that's ever been the modicum
of success anywhere. I couldn't agree with you more, Gary. Like the that that boomer narrative
is not the narrative. I mean, it's it's do better than I did, but aspire for for way more.
Like that's not the boomer narrative. I mean, I know we like shit on boomers,
and I'm a I'm a Gen Xer, but Like that was never the narrative. I came from nothing
and built into something. And I'm telling you, my grandfather who raised me was a master plumber.
He just said, "Do better than I do, and do, and try to do way better than I do,
and just keep that moving down the line. Teach that to your kids. Like I just don't buy into
that narrative. Like go work two jobs and you'll be fine. So maybe I didn't articulate it properly.
But you cannot just go work at the base level and be able to survive. They've inflated the money
too much, right? Your your ability to get ahead and get comfortable, and then be in a situation
to take the kind of risks that can lead to like bigger success and like fulfilling what your dreams
are. You've got to find a skill to be able to get comfortable first. Yeah, there you there you
and I are in complete agreement. And I don't want to bust into this conversation.
I just came up for just to provide some anecdotal data. My oldest just graduated from A
and M May School Business. He had a few offers his senior year, but they were working for Dell.
They were working for HP, being a BDR, making you know a hundred grand a year. And he called me,
and he said, "Dad, I'm not. I don't want this business development rep, right? Sales rep. Yeah,
you got it. Yep. So cold calling to spin up leads for the account executives, right? Entry level.
You know, fifty grand base salary. Learn how to suck corporate dick. That's right.
So fifty grand base salary, and if you hit all those targets, it's another thirty five plus.
You know, meet. You know, make sure all your data's in your CRM and all that other bullshit.
You get another fifteen. And we were talking, and he said, "Dad, like,
I don't think I want to do that." And I said, "Okay, so." What have you learned
since you've been living with me? So his sophomore year, he wanted to do a internship.
You know where he landed, Gary? Fucking Midland, Texas, right? Helping, working for a O
and G company and pulling pipe and all that other bullshit. Junior year to senior year, he went
and worked for an industrial pump company up in. But he got real world experience.
So the point I want to make is, the kids, the younger generations' expectations, um.
So many of them are framed by the parents. When you know, when my son said he wanted to do X, Y,
and Z, I said, "Go get, you know, you're off for the summer. Go get a fucking internship.
Like you got to do this." And he was able to leverage that. And then after that conversation about,
"I don't want to go work for these big companies. I want something that I can be passionate about.
That I want to wake up and put my feet on the floor on a Monday morning." And yeah,
nobody wants to go to work. That's why it's called work. But I want to be excited about it.
And so we started. You know, I said, "Okay, so sounds like you want to be in quasi startup,
early entry, early stage companies." He's like, "Yeah, that's what I want, where I can do,
and and and expose myself and and excel." And he did exactly what you said. I I told him, I said,
"Whatever they're offering you, tell them you'll take thirty-five to forty thousand dollars
because you need that to live, right? Basic. You'll take the rest in what you earn in terms of what
you sell. And if you meet all those objectives, then maybe you get a little bit of equity.
" And you know what? Within three weeks, he had seven offers. And the offer he took,
the people said, "Hey, man, I can't tell you how impressed we were. We understand
you want to take fifty thousand less than we were willing to give you.
We're going to pay you what we are going to pay anybody else, and we're going to give you
this override if you hit these metrics, you get the equity." And I'm telling you right now, man,
he he's he's up in Austin, and he is busting ass, and he's loving it, and they're loving him
because he's doing. He's working the way we all worked, and that's what's missing.
So sorry for my rant, but that's what I got. Love, love the story though.
That's a good example of what I'm talking about. At least the attitude, you know? Hey,
I got nothing. I don't have a job. Somebody walked in. I said, "Well, how much do you want
need to make?" And they were like two ten. I'm like, you you did say you did say
you're unemployed right now, right? And I mean seriously, seriously, they didn't think
there was anything wrong with it, guys. Okay, and this is not a child. We call it the ramen. I mean,
in my family, we call it the ramen approach, right? Like, you need a job.
What's the minimum that you need so that you can at least buy ramen and live for a year?
And if you do that and you work your ass off and you don't, you don't get angry about the fact
that you're doing that. Good things will come because every fucking step you take away from
where you don't want to be, you're a step closer to where you want to be. Did anyone do the ramen?
Like I actually did the ramen. Like you're bringing it up, but I actually did it for nine months,
where I ate ramen, right? But then at the end of that ramen, I was making forty k in
my twenties a month, right? And I was very happy with what we did. Yo, but I was I was buying
twenty five cent soups at Wawa. Yeah, Joe, I did. I did nineteen months at Yale
as a surgical resident until I dropped out. I had an idea for a business,
so I did exactly what you're talking about because I was making under forty thousand dollars a year,
working a hundred hours a week. I was sleeping in the hospital two nights a week. I mean,
I I I I mean, just whatever. I lived in my car the first months of my first sales job. Thank God.
Literally lived in my car. I dropped out. Thank God I dropped out, and I got scared to death
of being a middle manager in healthcare. Thank God. You've been a horrible middle manager, bro.
I'm not one of those guys that bring a 357 10 inch barrel. Yeah. To the office one day. Yes.
In fact, probably doubles. Yeah. And do a complete psycho. No, I'm terrible.
I'm a terrible employee. When I sold my company in 2015, Yulin Wong almost hired me to work in
a robotics company. And I had to decline when I had thirteen like people that reported to Yulen.
He was the CEO, but they were my peers. I said, "Yulen, I'll destroy this company." Yeah,
there's no way. So I'll drop. So you have another space, Garrett. I just I think it's parents
that have a huge responsibility to set the proper expectations for their kids.
And then ensure that they execute on them. And I'll I'll I'll leave it with that. I agree, buddy.
I agree. I agree. Love to hear from you, fathers. What's the right? When's the right time
to cut them loose and go, bro? You can't come back here anymore. Like hard stop on you.
My my my friends kicked me out at 18. I can't afford rent. Girls or boys? I think ten years old.
Yeah, I think it's different for girls or boys, Gary. Wow. A hundred percent agree with that.
Throw them into a forest. Yeah, girls have girl brains. Girls have girl brains.
They you got to take care of them. Okay, I don't endorse that, but yeah. I know. Did you know that?
It was a. It was a. It was a. This. This is a recorded space, Jason. I don't want to put myself
in trouble. There have actually been studies on young girls versus boys.
Boys need way more emotional validation from parents than girls. We see this in foster care
that the the girls who go through foster care do better, have better life outcomes than the boys.
But boys, especially like the lack of a father. Wait, what do you mean better life outcomes?
Who judges that? So, so not to say that girls that go through foster care don't have
poor life outcomes. Like I think they're five times more likely to kill themselves,
more likely to end up out in the streets, to be homeless, to be in poverty, to be addicted to drugs.
What are we talking about, foster kids? Because this this is a control for lack
of parental parental care. So, like young boys, especially the lack of a father figure,
hits them way worse than it does females. But we we don't talk about this.
We talk about women that have daddy issues, but. Yeah, we're we're finding out now.
Boys with daddy issues, it hits them much much worse. One of the things I think
that like the feminism movement did was very well create a narrative that men don't have feelings.
I think that's one of the things that definitely happened. And that that's trans men
who had already gone through that could probably put up with that a bit more.
But boys that kind of were going through the education system, whatever else,
were kind of brought up in that way. And and you do see that a lot. There are
a lot more young people who are. Certainly, young young young men who are
sort of like emotionally just very stuck, and I think that's not probably helping.
It's not that it's you know I think there's a lot of cultural things going on.
I think there's an element. I think the Ryan guy that was here before was saying about parenting.
That's true, but it's also true that parents have got a lot less control over the content
these children see. And so, there's like a congruence of poor things going on.
There's like an element of like you know relaxed parenting, probably because they bought
were brought up in that environment or close to it anyway. And then young people
who certainly teenagers who have got access to a myriad of ideas that are different
to their parents, and so they can actually sort of imagine like being a teen. When I grew up,
you literally had your parents and your teachers and your mates to go off.
You didn't have anyone else. And now you've got you know everybody on the internet as well in order
to form your opinion whatever else that's going to emotionally screw you over,
and so you're going to become reclusive, lazy, non-masculine if you're a boy, and if you're a girl,
you know I can't speak for women, so I'm not going to say that, but like you know I imagine it's
a lot. I think 100 right with boys needing more emotional support is how it's delivered.
Girls need girls need girls need a lot more sort of physical defense as far as I can see.
I've got a daughter, although she's very young. They need a lot more sort of
like physical reassurance that you're safe, whatever else. Boys need tough love,
so they you need them. You need to throw them to the wolves and make them believe
like they're being thrown to the curb in order to feel that, but know that you're never going to let
them fall over the edge. I think that's my like caveat with boys. And like I've got two sons,
albeit you know under ten. You can already see it now. There's no way I would, you know,
deal with my son's misbehavior or like his views on things or the way he speaks to his mom
or other in the same way as my daughter, which is absurd. Because in all intents and purposes,
you should be viewing them the same. I can't, can't, I can't believe that changes into you know.
When I was 18, I was full of shit. I got into bed business-wise with people who were not good
for me. You know, like the people who think they're Satan and they're saints and you're Satan.
You know, that type of thing. Instead of I'm learning and you're meant to be experienced.
And I think the whole world is full of that. And I feel very fortunate to have got with the people
I've got with now, who are very my my business partners. Now are you know good friends.
We're very intellectually you know matched. We're we've got big ideas.
We're going after big contracts and big big big deals. But you know, to say
that everyone can do that from the scratch, I just don't think is true.
And and we probably don't want them to either. But I think if we're talking to like intelligent.
Emotionally mature or want to be emotionally mature people who are looking for mentor support,
who are willing to put in hard graft and do the right things, then there's 100 loads of opportunity
up for those people. I think the rest of them kind of needs to get on, get to work,
and stop paying bills before they start having opinions. Which is one thing I detest about
millennials is that they've not millennials, sorry, Gen Z in particular,
is that they've got an awful lot of opinion for people who don't pay bills. Well,
a lot of the differences between boys and girls is biological and neurologically rooted.
Like we know, for example, social media. Affects girls negatively way more than it does young boys.
This also might be cultural, but in terms of like a developing emotional center for a boy,
they're way more impressionable, which is probably a combination of the fact that women have
more frontal lobe activity, so they have a stronger line from their limbic system,
the emotional center, to like forethought and making decisions, and also
that boys just develop a lot slower than girls. So when When we talk about like giving
young boys emotional support, I'm not saying teach the boys to be emotionally intelligent
because I actually consider this a form of abuse for young boys. When you tell them like we want you
to we want you to understand your feelings and think about your feelings, like
if you look at the hormonal structure. Or neurological structure of a young boy,
you're just torturing him because you're telling a young boy to ruminate in his thoughts
and understand his feelings, and this is not what a male brain does best.
What you say about tough love is exactly how you should raise a boy to be there,
so that they know they can go outside and play and break an arm, and they can come back home.
You know, we we're feminizing we're feminizing young boys, and it's it's highly abusive. Yeah,
I played a lot of sport growing up, right? So physical. I was playing rugby and I rode
and all that type of stuff, and basketball. And what what I would say is, like, you know,
I'm seeing now a lot of young teenage boys and actually young adult boys who are still pretend,
basically are still just teenagers, but basically like going home from school, work, whatever,
playing on the Xbox, being lethargic. Now, I'm I'm overweight. I worked out this evening. I can't.
I could not imagine. What it would be like to run a company, or like try and do a job, whatever,
as a man without lifting something or getting your heart rate up every every now and then,
or going for a walk or anything. That's what I just think, and you don't you don't see
that as much now. Like my kids are young, and half the kids in the class are obese.
Most of them are the boys, and I just sort of think, you know, what the heck? They're like,
you know, one of my sons is five years old, and there's like three kids who are. Honestly,
it's child abuse, and you sit there and like. They should be running all the time.
Why are you not running? Why? Because they're playing whatever. And I was like, "Wow, dude,
it is child abuse. It is 100 child abuse, Gary. I mean, literally, like you you see
them come through the the gate, and they're you know the size of a small beluga whale,
and you're like, who's feeding these people? And like, oh, because they want to.
" They want to play on the Nintendo all the time, or they want to play the iPad all the time.
I was like, "Well, who fuck? They're not fucking buying the iPad at five years old, are they?
" I'm not being funny. It's understandably like a strong parental trap because I I don't have kids,
but I imagine like I don't know I babysat. You know, it's really easy to give a kid an iPad
and then just do whatever you want, and they're locked to the they're locked to the couch.
But they're not developing properly when you do that. It's easy to give them some value too. Okay,
this isn't the first time parents have been irresponsible. Okay, with their children.
Like this is not the first time. It's just the first time we're hiding behind
politically correctness. The truth is that the parents have abandoned their children,
imprisoned them in a system that's fucking sick as shit. Okay. Like there isn't a teacher. Well,
there is very few teachers that I have met that I can respect, and I send my kids
to a private school, and it makes me vomit. Okay, I mean, makes me vomit how bad the system is. So,
well, like Gary, we, we, I, my, a lot of my kids are like, I say they're all under ten. So, like,
we go to the teacher parent conference, and they're like, oh, you know, um,
we've sent like my son's, my oldest son's called George, and it's like, well,
we're saying to George, you know, um, you know, he hasn't got an i, he said he didn't have access
to an iPad at home in order to do some of the the homework, and I'm like. Hold on a minute. What?
Why the fuck does he need access to an iPad? He's five, and he's like, "Well, it's good for the app.
" It's like, fine, I'll download the app on my fucking iPad so I can just watch him do it.
He'll do the thing, and then he's going away. I'm not giving him a goddamn iPad. The hell was like?
Why is that a condition? It's ridiculous. Yeah, if you if you look at like social media
or like TikTok especially, because they're so good at this, it's designed to be highly,
highly addictive. So when you're looking at like the development of a young brain,
you're essentially eliminating that child's ability to make their own decisions,
to critically think, to pay attention, and then we wonder why like things
like ADHD are skyrocketing. It's because kids aren't developing. You know,
when you you look at like I think it's the millennials or the boomers. I don't know,
but there was a generation where I guess the parents would quote neglect their kids by locking them
outside. Like that was like the culture. But even that was Gen X. Okay. Well,
that was good for the kids' development. They have to go out and figure out what
they're going to do. But when you give a kid an iPad, it tells them what they like
and what they don't like. They don't. Their brain doesn't develop to like have a personality
or make their own decisions. And you look at the midcingulate cortex. It it it is shrinking. Yeah,
yeah, absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, I can. This generation, this generation of youths,
does not have a midcingulate cortex. Does not have the ability to have goals
and strive towards them. I think you guys are nailing it, but you can't also like not give a kid
an iPad. Like, I mean, I'm I'm a parent of four young kids under five, so got a crazy household.
But the way I think about it is, we kind of touched on it earlier, Gary.
You were talking about it regarding kind of skills to. Push them further.
Like you need some sort of skills, and if you don't have any skills, well, that's one thing.
But you need some sort of skills, and it's clear that technology is the future.
So I think there's a medium. I mean, my pushback on that fire is that I didn't have a fucking iPad
until I was in my teens. Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, but but nowadays it's different, though. You know,
no, it's not. No, it's not. I'm still gonna pick up the. Come on, man.
Same basic things have to be learned. You know, I didn't. I I used a rotator telephone, man. Okay,
I remember when you know the the phone would be my my ears would be numb because me
and my girlfriend would be talking on the phone and my mother would get a freaking bill.
So I agree with I agree with you, and we were hey and we were breaking the communication rules.
I actually sat down at the table and said a prayer. Okay, and it was there was no phones, no books,
no anything. Like a lot has changed, and I'll tell you, man, to just to say hey,
that's not possible to not give them a iPad. Well. That that that that that's just not correct.
Well, it's it's it's true that parents parents are in a tricky situation because there's also
social consequences. If you have a kid who's in school and they don't have a phone
and everyone else does, this has negative repercussions for that kid who's left out.
So parents definitely have a hard choice to make because we're social animals. So we need to fit in.
We need to feel like we're normal. How about how about growing up at eight years old
and and they tell you, hey, by the way. You don't have a phone, but your dad's dead now. Or hey,
your dad and mom divorced at seven, and they have to wear that into the room.
They have to toughen up, lady. Listen, I agree with you, Gary. I agree with you.
I agree with everything you said. I agree with you what you guys are saying,
and I agree with the fact of no iPads until they're at least sixteen. But the other thing,
but there is a median, and that's all I'm saying is there. There has to be some sort of median,
especially nowadays with where technology is going. And that's all I'm trying to say is it's not one
like drastic way or another. I think there's you have to figure out as a parent how do you mix it to
where you have control where you can still get across what you've learned without.
Going too far one way or the other. That's why I said, hey, if I gave them value,
it would also calm them down, right? It is a choice. Now the question is, okay,
how much do these people get? Like, I did not. Me and Grant did not watch TV.
We got to watch TV on Saturdays, and it was like, wow, dude, we're gonna watch the Flintstones.
It's gonna be fucking awesome. And we were there for an hour, and I still have really cool memories
of that. Yeah, I'm actually. My son, my son was born in 2000, right? 2010.
There was a game called Minecraft. He really wanted to play Minecraft.
All the kids in school were playing Minecraft. I said, I told him, I said, look,
if you want a computer, you got to build it from scratch. And I sat down with him, talked it over.
He learned how to build a computer from scratch. And then I said, well,
if you want to play Minecraft, you got to learn how to to build it into a server,
and you got to learn how to script that server. Right, so that's how I approached it, and he did it,
man. He became like really adept at scripting and all things electronics,
all through that that that experiment, right? So that was my approach to it, and it worked really,
really well. So I think there is a way to to to to kind of split the baby, so to speak.
What you're all talking about, and what Gary is also talking about, touches on like the importance
of, I guess, where it goes right or where it goes wrong too, though, because when you have something
that you can work towards, i.e., you have Saturday to look forward to,
because there's like a dopaminergic release. Then that kid can develop properly. But if
every single day he comes home and is given an iPad all day long with no controls, no limits,
this is where it truly is is damaging to the development of the brain.
Like you're eliminating the ability. Child abuse. It's child abuse. You had us at hello, right?
We've been making that point. I mean, Gary's made that point. It's just child abuse. Why?
If you're going to do that, don't have kids. Right, like yeah, and and when they
when they turn eighteen, they're not gonna go get a job that they can hold down either.
So you're fucking yourself in the future when you do that. Right, you are. Yeah,
you're creating you're creating emotionally deregulated individuals. They're not even get
like you won't even be able to have like a a conversation about helping them regulate
their emotions. They just won't fucking have any. It's it's they won't know where they feel,
how they feel. All they'll know is that. No matter what they say, you say,
and how entrenched that they just want to be back on the iPad or the screen
or whatever chip inside their fucking head it's going to be by then or whatever, you know,
as soon as possible. You see it now with like we, my kids will go out with
like friends who you know do give their kids iPads all the time. I find that weird, but whatever.
And the kids don't want to stay at like the park. They want to go home and watch, like,
do stuff on the damn screen. So, like, my kids don't do that because they they've never had access
to this, and so they're like, "Why do they want to leave? We're playing in the park and stuff.
" They're like, "Absolutely right." And some people just you know have different things
and whatever, and you end up having this bizarre conversation. What I find annoying is
that at schools and in every social club, the up the social argument comes up all the time,
and the social argument is. We need to help them include with their partners,
otherwise they're going to have tough, tough, you know, tough time with their with their peers.
And I'm just thinking that's a shit argument because all it does is drive to
the lowest common denominator. So you're basically, I'm now basically parenting to the average
of the shittest parent in the group, because whoever allows their kid to have access
to the most stuff. Means now that I have to give access them, so anybody that I would look to,
and let's let's take it. I'll say from a man's perspective, right? Let's say t here is a ton
of women there that you know who all have children. Would I have opted to have children
with these women? And the answer is no, because I don't find them attractive for lots of reasons,
including the way that they view parenting. Now I've got to parent to to the denominator of the male
or female that wouldn't. Yeah, just makes no fucking that. That whole social element makes no sense
to me. Like Darkside, what you just said about the fact that you like taught him to—that's
what that's what my parents did. They put me a good friend of mine who was about four years older
was learning how to build computers. I got given all the component parts of a computer,
and they said they can have. I'll plug it into the Wi-Fi. The minute it turns on, and that's it.
Within about four days, I'd I'd worked out how to do this thing. Yeah, um,
and I learned something absolutely highly valuable. And then hey, we got some hands.
How about a road warrior and then protector? Yeah, and let's get. Hey, Dark, let's get.
What's our topic, man? I think we got to get a topic. We're just bouncing around.
I was hoping Dana would come in and just steal the stage spotlight and go. Hey, let's reset.
This is confusing. Hey, Dana, Dark, what you got for a topic, buddy? What are you interested in
right now? I'm interested in the market tomorrow, for sure. Yeah. Well, look,
I'm interested in you know where this is all headed, man. I've spent most of my time
lately thinking about sort of the future. And what hyperbitcoinization looks like,
and what I mean by that is, I feel like, and you and I have been talking about this forever, right?
I think the next financial crisis is probably sooner rather than later.
And what does it look like when there's an asset like Bitcoin that people can self-custody
and they can exit the financial system in a matter of hours? What does that look like, right?
And I just keep landing on, you know, it's it's going to be a crazy time. So,
so I think that's a great subject. You know, I I feel like I feel like there's just no way
to avoid it, right? Everything going crazy in Europe, Japan. Bond markets,
just everything seems to be get crazier by the day. So that's what I've been.
That's where I've been spending my time thinking about Gary. I'll comment on that.
I would like to say, yeah. So, hey, everybody, appreciate the time. Thanks, Dark. Thanks, Gary.
I'm seriously considering leaving the country and and and relocating with my family due
to the insane cost of living here and leveraging Bitcoin and some income funds to pull it off.
But it's a it's a serious thing that I'm considering, and I'm just a pleb with a little more money
than the average pleb, and the financials make sense where I could I could pull off an income fund,
making 130 grand a year, paying zero federal tax, relocating to a place with a way lower cost
of living, not working anymore, spending all that time with my family,
and then having an extra 30 40 grand a year to keep reinvesting into the the fund,
and literally check the fuck out. And move on and actually live a real life instead
of this corporate grind and paying these crazy taxes and crazy auto insurance and crazy food prices.
Because if you have a family that's large, you feel this inflation. Like any type of real food
that has any type of substance is super expensive right now, and it's not like that everywhere.
And and the cost of homes, the cost of cars, the cost of auto insurance,
the fucking bullshit medical that I pay every month into, and I never see a doctor because I'm
a carnivore and I'm healthy as hell. I don't need that crap, right? And there's just it's I'm seeing
green pastures out of this country, so that that's that's kind of my my personal take right now,
and that's that's what I got. Where are you thinking headed, Redwood? I mean,
potentially Mexico could absolutely bounce around Southeast Asia, really cheap, really cheap.
Like you know, eight hundred dollars a month for an apartment, and that could
that could you know fit a family, right? And the cost of living is like twenty, thirty k a year.
Right, if you're able to get into these, you know, lower cost of living areas,
and what a the thought of not working and living off a stack and reinvesting that stack
is is mind blowing. And I just I don't even want to think about buying a house in the United States.
It's just like why? So you can just get taxed to hell. Like there's some there's some certain parts
of that country that interest me because they're low cost of living, but um, you know,
you're still in the continental 48. But yeah, that's kind of. Where I'm framing my financials
right now, and and really considering some some other options. Cas, what's going on, man?
You got a hand up or a protector? Sorry, we're going to you and then Cas. Yeah. Well, protector.
Yeah, I'm here. To Road Warriors' point, you know, you sound like you're from the maybe more my neck
of the woods up here. Your dialect, or you know, sort of language that you're speaking.
I I get your your point. I understand. Maybe your sentiment, or you know,
with what you're commenting on regards to like the housing market and looking at
how houses are a lot more expensive. But have you spoken to people about looking into
like buying land in different states, or looking at like cheap, cheaper amounts of Land up
in places like you know the upper northeast, and here in the in the states,
or looking at places that have been given up, or that you know, looking at abandoned land,
or looking at places you know in outskirts of these cities where they're very cheap,
and you could do DIY projects and just you know kind of live off the land that way,
and have your you know small time. Why Why would he want to invest in a piece of property that has
no value, and that's how it's being priced? When he's really asking to get out of a system
that's sucking the life out of him. Well, so that he can, so that he can.
Utilize what he already has around him, and that he can make these property values.
I think what I think what he's saying that is that every time he invests in the United States,
the tax is so you know continuing to escalate that he can't survive properly. He's got four kids,
and he wants to live a life of not having to put up with bureaucrats. I I understand that,
but and I get his again his sentiment or his his comment or his way of thinking in regards
to getting completely out. But I mean, I the way I think about it is innovation. I'm a creative.
He's investing that piece of land, though. Yeah, he won't be able to invest in Bitcoin. Well,
I'm a creative intellectual, so my my mindset is maybe a bit different than yours entirely, Gary.
You know, I I think of things completely outside the box. I'm more right-brained,
so I I look at what I already have around me, and I see there's a lot of investing to go on
to be utilized, and to look at all these different properties and look at values and futures,
and to understand how things are being marketed, and to see how much of again
that abandoned land hasn't been. Maintained or managed, and how much of this stuff
has just been given up, and I guess I look at it entirely different. I understand again
where you're going with it. I understand what he's saying, but maybe I'm just more of a I'm
more gung ho and a diehard sort of a fighter in that sense, and I look at things entirely different.
But yeah, that's I mean that's my way of thinking on it. My other point where I was going to make is
that was to to Road Warrior at first. The first point I was making. My second point
I was going to make was somebody was mentioning something in regards to the school systems.
And maintaining your children with technology and what have you. If you look at, there are
different programs online. You can find pieces of software you could probably purchase for
probably a low price. There used to be a thing back in the day. My mother used to use with us kids,
and it was like I think it was called Cyber Patrol or Cyber something. Cyber agent or so,
but there are monitor monitoring types of software that you can purchase for a low fee that
you can use to oversee your computer's security, and you can set your own passwords
and what have you at a certain level, you know, so that your children can't be on the computer for.
Only four hours, and you can set the limits. There are also ways to oversee that as well,
physically still, and you can have even more so of a way to secure your computer
and to kind of watch them. And the other way I was thinking was homeschooling,
looking at things in that regard, into that sort of way of thinking, and then thinking about
private private schooling or tutoring. So, because somebody else was mentioning, you know,
their children being at school for so long, and then they come back home
and they're done from being at school, and they're on their iPads, whatever,
being what we call here in the Midwest, being babysat by technology, which is what
I don't fully agree with at all. I think that there is a necessary step forward still with not just.
And somebody mentioned technology, and I threw a thumbs down earlier down to listeners.
Why I did was, I think there's a necessary step forward still to engineering.
You have to be hands on. Technology to me is not just—I know some people might have
this similar mindset of thinking tech is is software only—and that's why I did that because there's
a necessary still amount of tinkering to do and to be done on the hardware scale of things.
With that, I'll end my plane. Thank you very much. Who's up next? I think I I I love everything
you guys are talking about. Thank you guys for having me up. We're gonna get to Bitcoin
at some point. I promise. Uh, so yeah, I mean, I have so much to say about everything,
like the kids thing. Like the number one thing, I, I, I mean, I won't say a lot.
I'll try to keep it short. Mostly, I want to talk about the markets, the kids thing,
the number one thing to just to keep it simple. That I try to congratulate my daughter on is
when she's tough. If she If she hurts herself and works through it, that's the number one thing.
Like I just try to give her props for that. Everything else, I just you know try to teach her right.
Like, but the number one thing is grit, in my opinion. As far as teaching your kids anything,
teach them to work through the hard things. What I actually know about those the markets,
and when I hear when I hear people talking bearishly right now, when people are bearish
these particular markets, it it gives me it makes me bullish. I the the fact
that markets are sitting at sitting near all time highs, and that a lot of the sentiment. Indicators
and just basic sentiment that I hear around is net bearish to to neutral is pretty incredible to me
considering the things that are happening in the macro. Right, we've got. I mean,
when it comes to crypto, I know a lot of people in here are interested in crypto.
They literally just passed the the Genius Act, right? Which basically tethers, you know,
or doesn't even. It literally basically forces like. Stablecoins to hold
massive amounts of treasuries, which essentially is tethering crypto to the U.S. Dollar, right?
And it's turning crypto into, and it's it's it's making the U.S. Dollar. It's a,
it's like forcing the U.S. Dollar across the world, particularly in developing nations.
It's a really like interesting way to kind of. You know, do the thing that
they've been doing through generally, you know, force for a long time.
It's I think it's a finesse way. Not that I agree with it, but it it makes me bullish as somebody
who operates in the markets. And then so there's that. And then then as well,
what we what we're witnessing is during COVID. Obviously, everybody knows they printed
about forty percent of the M two money supply, and then relatively they rapidly increased
interest rates, which made it so mass quantities, the most ever, money is sitting in money markets,
as you guys probably know, like like around six trillion dollars. And there's no reason
for that money to expose itself to risk assets because it can just it can just lap up
these nice yields, right, due to interest rates in money markets. But we have a president
who is making it no secret that he plans on aggressively lowering interest rates, which,
in my opinion, will force that money from the sidelines or the money markets into risk assets.
We've got the Russell. You know, small cap and mid caps have been going sideways in a base
and accumulation for about three years, and I think we're and and if you look at positioning
on those ETFs, it's it's bearish as far as as far as positioning. Right,
we've got you've got a lot of speculators who are who are short, which is going to force force
a squeeze, and then not to mention we really have a lot of innovation,
like real innovation that's going to change the world. So I do think there's going to be a lot
of winners. There's going to be a lot of losers. You're going to have to be nimble.
You're going to have to be able to make decisions. But I think the market that we're in right now
goes much higher. Similar, I think it's comparable to the the internet boom.
Like I would I would tell people to go ahead and look at the Greenspan irrational exuberance.
That's what this reminds me of. People are saying we're in a bubble, et cetera, et cetera.
But we have everything we need to go much higher. We have the liquidity. Sidelined,
so they can pour into growth and risk assets, and we've got the real innovation—the real innovation
that can actually change the world—coming online, and people are just getting used to it.
So that's the way I see markets. We're sitting at all-time highs. I love buying new highs.
There's no overhead supply, and I'm I'm a bull. I'm a bull here,
and I love to hear bearishness. But thanks, thanks for having me up here. This is a cool space.
Well, there should be some bears in the market. Somebody's selling this. We hit 116.3, I think. 116
and change, back up 117. I think this week's going to be interesting. Personally, in fact,
I think what is this? It's July 2021. We have 11, no, 10 days left of the month.
Be interested to see what people think prices are going to be in August. August 1st.
Didn't we just do this, Dustin? I know Dana's sitting there feeding her face,
so she's taking up a space. Didn't we talk about price? July. There's going to be volatility.
There's going to be volatility for sure. Oh, no doubt. There hasn't been very much.
I haven't seen it. I I want to throw this out there because I haven't heard anybody talk about it.
The old right, the nine billion dollars worth of Bitcoin that got sold, like eighty thousand tokens.
We had another like whale wallet wake up out of the blue and sell a bunch.
I've been trying like come up with some idea. It's remarkable how little impact it's had on
the price overall, which I think is a wildly bullish signal. Like wildly bullish. Unlimited bid.
Unlimited bid. But my my question is. So right, I guess my concern would be that, like, where,
why now does somebody wake up and sell? Like what what what is the beyond just the right?
You've held all the way up to nine billion. Why now? One thought is that it could be tied to
Ross Ulbricht, who probably was not in it. Right, was incarcerated. Definitely had access to them.
Right? Do we think it was Ross, or could it be something? My my fear would be.
I think it's much easier, Dustin. What do you think? Well, do you have a deep-seated fear
you want to talk about first? Because I think I know what's happening. Well, I'm open to hear it.
My fear would be that there's some quantum stuff and that they're targeting these dormant wallets.
Nah, I think people are just afraid of Trump. Look, what if what if you have what if you have whales
who are moving fifty thousand Bitcoin into strategic reserves, having zero tax transfer,
and Like with zero, there is no tax. All they're doing is there. Here's my fifty thousand Bitcoin.
I now receive shares in the company in exchange. I'm sure they structure it in a different way.
I think that's where some of this activity. Yeah, exactly, Gary. I think you've got Adam back there
with thirty thousand coins selling. You know, to Jack Mollers and other treasuries.
These are going straight into the treasury companies. They get equity in the company,
so it's not necessarily. Them dumping their Bitcoin, there is a tax-efficient way
to get you know equity in these reserve current, these reserve treasury. Well,
and with the goal to multiply their Bitcoin, because they're basically able to put
a thousand Bitcoin into into a pool, and when they go public, that thousand Bitcoin is all
of a sudden got you know three X's. In the case of BMNR, imagine you to put three thousand dollar
Ethereum into the into the pile, you have a thousand Ethereum, and now that just went up
twenty X. You have twenty times the Ethereum that you invested. It's that's pretty strong. Say Gary,
good to talk to you again. I'm gonna just jump in real quick, and then I gotta run an errand.
But just wanted to share a quick, just lay of the land. I was at
a you know member guest country club tournament. I got invited to, played with
two financial advisors and a commercial real estate guy, and I couldn't help myself
because they were bragging about assets under management, new clients they're getting for
20 million, and I I just had to ask, just get a temperature of what's going on out there,
and Asked you know are you you know allocating your clients to Bitcoin at all
and almost got laughed at still which you know maybe five I got I got laughed at
five to seven years ago but I I didn't expect that now and one of these advisors super successful
and says you know there's it's just demand driven Bitcoin is just demand driven I asked well
what asset is not demand driven and he said well you know with stocks you can issue more equity
and I said correct and I just left the conversation at that and the other the other advisor
said well until you know I can go to the grocery store and buy Bitcoin
or use Bitcoin to buy groceries like Then what's the value? And that was
a whole another conversation. And the commercial real estate, like he does with his Apple shares,
exactly. Well, he said, "I can sell." I can. I said, "Well, like you can with your your gold
or stock." He said, "Well, I can sell my stock and buy." And I said, "Well, you can buy.
You could sell your Bitcoin and buy." That was a whole other thing.
But the commercial real estate guy said, "It's it's not physical. You know, housing is physical.
You can live in it." But what I'm getting at is these arguments are just getting so bad,
and and it's just incredible how successful. These guys are, and it just goes to show how early
we still are when it comes to understanding Bitcoin. These guys are still so far behind the ball.
It just, I just, I had to stop the conversation, play my golf game, and just realize, you know,
well, they'll get Bitcoin at the price they deserve, as they say, and and move on.
Good having you here, Mike. Always enjoy hearing your sensibility. Joe, what's up, buddy? Hey Gary,
I mean, I have a theory. Like, first off, I think a lot of this money's coming from Asia. Only
because I've had a lot of people contact me from people that I know, because they know that I have
a good friend in in a pretty big OTC desk, and most of those guys were coming from Asia.
Then on top of it, I think a lot of exchanges, a lot of exchanges that made money
until real financial institutions started coming, are going to start getting out of the game, right?
The really positive thing is these things were all done over OTC, huge amounts of money.
So I take that as a positive, not a negative. I just think people like finance.
If you look at their books, if you look at what they were doing with their wallets
and how they were like siphoning off Bitcoin to. To Wintermute, back when it was Gary,
you remember I had this conversation with you when it was 107. I'm like, look,
they're dumping everything to Wintermute, and then Wintermute's selling it off for them,
and then Coinbase started doing the same thing. Why they doing this? Because J.P. Morgan's coming,
Robinhood's coming. These guys aren't going to be able to make play the games they used to play.
Like their whole their whole margins are going to be completely screwed.
So I think they're creating a safety or enough money to start buying things up in the bear,
because how they going to compete against the J.P. Morgan? Right when when they start selling,
like what are you going to pick if you're a guy with a, you know, with a 401k,
you're going to go to finance or you're going to go to J.P. Morgan, right?
It's they have a lot to grow in order to catch up, and I think a lot of exchanges,
especially in China, because they're going to have the same issue, need capital to be ready
in the bear to start buying up companies or shut down. And I don't think any
of them are going to shut down. I think they're going to give it their shot at making making a run,
and I think that's why we saw a lot of sales. In the past two months, there's been a lot
of OTC activity in the past two months. But the good thing is, is it's not hitting the books.
It's all getting done through OTC. So I don't see that as a negative, to be honest.
I don't find any no coincidence that exactly at 6 p.m. Eastern Time, when the COMEX opens,
we get flushed 2,000 bucks instantaneously. Cash settled Bitcoin futures. Just throw it out there,
man. So what do you think it is, then, Dustin? No, I do. I actually think that's a. One
of the best explained theses I've heard on kind of what's going on. I I'll be honest.
I I wasn't following it closely enough to know. I've just seen the headlines,
which is why I wanted to bring it up and ask this panel. Yeah, I've just been watching the wallets
for for months now since January, like almost on a daily basis. Of you know,
with the the exchange wallets, and they they've been dumping. Um, and I'm like,
why are they dumping? They know what the cycle is like, and I really think it's
because the competition's coming. They're going to need to be capital rich. Yeah, well,
that's a good thing. That's a good thing. One, it's bringing in more people.
It is like this is you know this is what price is about. We're discovering
where people want to move volumes. They'll deploy this capital. They'll figure figure out what
they're going to do with the capital, or they've already figured it out.
But I do think that the now I don't know how the reserve volumes would be moving,
but I do most certainly think dark. If somebody, if I had two hundred thousand Bitcoin
and I wanted to move fifty thousand to. A reserve company,
you most certainly would begin to see movements, and it would be stunning not to see movements
from Finance, since they are the largest player in the world. Is that? I mean, it's pretty obvious,
man. Yeah, you're spot on, Gary. That's what's happening. Well, so so one thing I'd add to Joe,
your point. I've been talking to a bunch of exchanges in China and in Asia, and just in general over
the last couple of weeks, and I'm noticing a significant tightening of protocol that
I've never experienced with the exchanges before. The level of due diligence that they're doing for
new listings and other also lends to this idea that they're tightening up and getting serious,
knowing that regulatory from the competition is coming from people who are more regulatory suited,
and that that might be a attack vector that they have to be taking seriously.
A quick point on this on the big selling. I think a lot of people pay attention to
where people buy a lot more than where people offload. When you're dealing in that type of size,
you kind of have to get out when there is a big enough. You you have to know that you can't always.
There's never. There's not necessarily going to be a market for your position at at all times,
right? So I think right now we're we're trading we're we're trading around new highs,
and they can lighten up. And like I mentioned earlier, that and as Gary mentioned,
there's a lot of nice merchandise on the shelves that has potential. Upside, like I think,
I think we could see Bitcoin as it distributes base out. As you know, people talk about alt season,
etc., etc. But as I mentioned earlier, we've seen Russell. The Russell is positioned.
That's that's the thing that I'm mostly watching right now. And if you you watch, if you ever
if you ever watch the correlation between the Russell and the total crypto market cap,
it's it's It can be pretty eye-opening. I think we're I think we're going to see the Russell
break out of that base, and I think we're going to see the total crypto market cap rip.
I think we may see Bitcoin underperform for a little. Not you know, it's still going.
I don't think it's. I don't think we're going to see it sell off by any means.
But I think we could see it range between 100k and maybe 120 or whatever. While Ethereum rips,
altcoins rip. And also, capital spreads into you know, there's a lot of stuff happening.
Whether it's self-driving, AI, etc., etc. But the point is, there's not for these big guys.
There's not necessarily, especially in crypto, always a lot of liquidity.
And we know when the selling starts in crypto, it starts. Like it's there's a lot of selling,
and you can see that price drop fast. So people who deal in big size, they know
that they need to get out when they can get out. So getting in at a good price is just as hard.
I'm sorry. Getting out at a good price is just as hard, or likely harder,
for people who have that type of size. So, I think it's just standard, you know, distribution,
and in a really good market, where there's other good ways to spend that capital.
Love that perspective, and I think that's the way markets work. Most certainly. Okay, Dana,
are you alive? Dark, are you alive? Do we have a speaker? What's my man?
What do you think is going to happen August one? Dustin, I didn't hear Dustin's number either.
I'm gonna be aggressive. Eleven dice. I'll go aggressive again, and I'm gonna say we break over
one forty-two. Boom. Doric. I don't know. Um. Yeah. I was calling one thirty-five at
the end of June, so I'll now go one thirty-five end of July. That's where a lot
of people are falling in that one thirty-five lane. Yeah, I don't know. Anybody else got a view?
And then it seems to me, based on the. Cadence of the room. I don't hear a lot of excitement
or discussion. Do you guys have the same kind of kind of frequency, Dustin? What are you feeling,
man? Feeling like the room deserves to go on, or is it just kind of one of those drag along rooms
from a pretty boy Danish? I blame Dana. That's what I'm gonna say. Dana, dude, that's right, dude,
exactly. I think the people actually went down when she came up, huh? Uh huh. Yep, that happened.
Gonna have to look at those stats. I mean, there's so much happening. It's almost funny.
I think it was Kaz who was speaking. It's interesting that we are as high as we are,
that we've been maintaining where we are, and that I am not sensing anything close to euphoria.
Yeah, I don't, I don't see the euphoria either. That I can say for sure,
there is hardly any euphoria. Well, there's some euphoria from a couple of groups, and you know,
they've actually become a bit obnoxious. But that will wear only so long,
and I do really wish everyone extremely well. I think some of the people
that are going to get crushed here are the guys buying some of these reserve companies.
I just don't think they're all built the same, and I own MSTR. I heard there's a bunch of rumors
going on around Cipher right now, Dark. I don't know if you watch the miners or Dustin. If CK,
look at CK in the room. He'll excite this room up. Let's go, Gary. You know what, man?
We should be fucking excited, guys. Anyone that is not preposterously bullish right now.
They're doing themselves a disservice, bro. And I see my boy Zach out there.
Zach Humphries is in the audience. Let's go. We got Eric Rice. We got man.
We got legends in the room. So let's wake this up. We got all the alpha to share because we're here
to liberate. You know each other. Fuck borders. Individual self sovereignty. So let's let's get it.
Um. Yeah, man. I'm looking at this clarity at Gary. I keep hearing. So we know the stable coins are
big on the banking side because what we're gonna see here in like. Three to six months,
folks are going to have an option when they go to their Bank of America, their Wells Fargo.
They're going to say, "Hey, do you want three to four percent in the
in the traditional money market account, or do you want that six percent in the tether, the circle?
" Because also, did you see the announcement that Tether is looking to move more aggressively
into the domestic market in the United States? Why? Canter Equity Partnership, the XXI Cook,
and as we saw, Jack Maalers gave us the update about what was it,
forty-eight to seventy-two hours ago, that they have pushed the paperwork through. That
once the the back, you know, the the agreements and the partnerships
and negotiations are are completed, and we got ink on the page, we get the ticker flip from CEP
to XXI. Right? We all know the suits are doing the Martha Stewart Cook.
Without having to you know spend any time at a at a special away camp, right?
So XXI expect all the sexy, the sizzle, the marketing to hit. And so when we look at this Adam Beck,
right? These these agreements. When we look at these these large whale wallets that are moving,
guys. Again, we're just having a little discussion here and writing the story. Um.
But some of these things happened six months ago, right? If you're maybe a strategy,
or you're one of these treasury companies, you you're going to source,
you're going to tap the OTC market, you're going to say, okay, where are these keys?
Where are these coins? And when it makes strategic sense, perchance when you have
regulatory clarity, perchance when we're you know, and speaking of clarity, right? That's coming up.
That's what the suits are saying is the big. That's the god candle. I still think we're going to get
a a quasi god candle maybe next week off of the stable coin because again,
we're talking about you know suddenly they're going to offer the stable coins,
mentioning the tether. Why am I bringing up tether and what the banking thing? Because remember,
they are a major partner in the XXI company, guys. They're saying, hey, look,
we see you guys are going to be Playing the Solana meme coin casino. Never mind the fact that 97%
are losers in that casino. It's keeping up with Vegas in that regard, and it is lucrative.
And what are they doing? They're saying we're going to take that dumb money,
we're going to buy Bitcoin, and we're going to sink it on XXY's balance sheet,
which is only going to pump MicroStrategy, guys. Right, and and at the same time,
it's going to pump X X I because there's only 21 million units of these, right? Meanwhile,
Meta Planet stock is going to rise. What does that mean? Meta Planet can leverage
their debt environment, guys. This is the edifice that never dies. This is the Cantus firmus
of the market. Now we can talk about many multiples to make, right? Because there are
many ways to make your money. We all know Bitcoin in self custody is a winning recipe.
I am not mad at. Now I love the conversations about how do we turn fifty dollars into freedom,
right? How do we maybe look at the risk reward, you know, because those plays are out there.
But you know, we I know there's a heavy Bitcoin space, so let's celebrate that, man.
So I think we've got a lot, we've got a lot cooking, guys. You know, and I've been looking at
this winter product, which is kind of a tangential side thing. It's it's brilliant, guys.
Like I will say, Sailor is using and articulating the instruments of the legacy system exquisitely
to acquire the maximum amount of Bitcoin. Okay, so I mean, it's it's it's using the system.
It's it's like it's it's macro jujitsu or rather judo, right? The enemy comes at you
with some bullshit, and you say, "I see your bullshit, and I will use it against you,
and I will defeat you." So you want to play fiat games? You already fucked the people.
So we here's how we finna win, and that's the cool thing, man, because there is
a nuanced conversation, and I relish it, like you know, Gary Darkside and I, you know,
the the two a.m. With a whiskey and maybe some greenery conversations. I think there is a fun,
fruitful. Philosophical argument to what would Satoshi think about using these levers
that advantages the traditional players, right? That the retail doesn't necessarily have access to.
That said, the rising tide is real, and Sailor is playing sound chess, and he understands the asset.
When Sailor buys that Bitcoin, it is creating a diamond floor for everyone's value. So
and he's not alone, right? And as we disseminate this information, our value,
our diamond floor goes stronger. Guys, I was having a conversation
with a very intelligent individual that is innovating in the space at the bleeding edge, and he
and I were having an academic conversation, and he dared tell me, and this is a joke.
He's a good friend. Bitcoin could hit thirty thousand, and the I couldn't but laugh
because I I would say. We we have a bet now that Bitcoin never touches forty thousand again.
We look on paper. We know the dynamic diamond floor is actually north of.
We got wicks to sixty eight thousand. I think if an honest conversation is being had,
we're at seventy thousand plus. Is the that's the bottom of the wick that
you're going to find right now, and that's that's crazy talk, right? So so yeah, guys,
that's where we are, and this is just the beginning. I'm going to land the plane here, Finley May.
Freddie Mac, eight trillion dollars worth of value. We're at two. We know that you know
four trillion can be made to look a lot more. You know, can be more than four trillion
expressed correctly. So let's go, guys. Bullish. Nothing but nothing but money to make
and freedom to to find. Thanks, CK. Yeah, Gary. I just want to add to that because I think
he brings up a really valid point. When we talk about XXI or CEP twenty one,
I think that you have to look at some markets that they're going to disrupt.
I don't think they're going after the seller model. I think they're going to go after
the annuity market. That's a four trillion dollar market. The annuity market is really one
of the sleaziest. Businesses that we have in our country, on average,
five percent front end commission loads. Some of them higher, much higher.
That that market's ready to be disrupted with Bitcoin based products, yield based products.
I know CK mentioned winter. That's the opposite of misty. Those are yield max products.
And then we can go into the bond market and bit bonds, right? That's all coming out
of this Canter Tether SoftBank Twenty One mixture. They're going to go structured products.
All of those structured products are going to require a tremendous amount of Bitcoin,
not just be held, but actually be sequestered. So when you issue a a structured product, a bit bond,
a bit annuity, they're going to have to take the Bitcoin and they're going to have to put it aside,
right, as as as essentially an escrow deposit. And and I think that that's going to be
the next driver. Not necessarily the treasury companies, but the treasury company products
that are coming that are going to compete with Wall Street native products.
That's what I'm looking to as a driver. I'm really glad CK brought up 21 because I think that's
where they're headed. And look, Mallers said he expects 21 to have more Bitcoin than strategy.
Now that's a bold prediction, but that came out of his mouth, not mine. And the way to get I agree,
bro. Yeah, the way to I agree. These whales guys. Yeah, the way to get there is through
structured products, right? Bit bonds. Bit annuities, but one one narrative that's not talked about
enough is is the fact that they're literally forcing crypto stablecoin companies to. To hold
mass quantities of treasuries, so we're in a situation where people are buying less
and less treasuries, right? Yet, you know, the bricks making, in my in my opinion,
a weak as attempt on on the dollar as far as the U.S. Reserve currency.
I don't think I think that's like just a bullshit narrative in general.
But I think the fact that the government is using crypto to essentially squash that,
like you guys got like tether, tether. Is a top ten holder of U.S. Treasuries. That's insane,
and it's just getting started. That trend is just getting started. I mean,
as far as this whole narrative of for people who you know love the altruistic narrative
of like crypto being somehow decoupled from the United States or the dollar,
like that's not happening. But as far as a bull case, a short to mid to you know depending on what
you know what you consider a long term bull case, the fact that they're using crypto
essentially to create massive demand for U.S. Treasuries when we need it the most.
Like that is not being talked about enough. That's the to me that's the biggest narrative,
and I don't hear anybody talking about it. And and so yeah, what like what
they're doing is turning crypto into essentially like U.S. Dollar backed,
also like all sorts of different financial products. But the the point is is that it now has
the backing of yeah the United States dollar, and you know you you've got a bunch of you know
whatever developing nations and people who people forget that COVID wasn't just here;
it was across the entire world and. They also inflated their dollars into shit, right?
And so when you get your check and you go ahead and cash your check for tether,
you might as well be getting U.S. Dollars, considering that they're all backed with with treasuries.
Because all the all these stablecoin companies do, and it's an incredible business, right?
They they you give them a real dollar, they say thank you for the dollar.
Here's your stable coin we just made for you, and we will go ahead and take your real dollar.
And invest it in a treasury and yield whatever the that rate is, right? And that and you know
smart people in the United States United States government understand that
and they understand that they can use this trend to create massive demand for treasuries
when we need demand for these treasuries the most. And so, anyways, I just think that's
an incredible narrative that is not being talked about enough. Yeah, but that's not without danger.
It wouldn't happen without Bitcoin. Yeah, I mean, so a couple things there. One, you know, if they
if what they're talking about is bringing the front end of the curve down close to zero,
that takes the profitability out of out of the stablecoin. Right,
because you know they're essentially going to be buying front end front end paper that's trading at
a half a half a point. Now, albeit that'll be very profitable at some level,
but not not to the degree we've seen today. And and I would just I would just suggest to you
you mentioned you know foreign countries and their currencies going to shit. Well,
if you really want to see these foreign countries go to shit, introduce the dollar
so that everyone can use it via stablecoin, right? So this that's right, yeah. But at the same time,
it's extremely destabilizing to a lot of foreign countries, a lot. Right to the point
that are you going to create more North Koreas, right? Because they already have capital controls
in these countries, and now you're introducing a product that can basically bypass
any capital control in any foreign land. So you know we have a way in the United States
of kind of that's that's an interesting point. You know we we have a way in
the United States of getting people to hate us through our actions. This is one way to do it
really quickly and to destabilize much of the planet, right? Which isn't does it make the people
hate us or does it make the government hate us? That's the difference. Well,
when the government the masses love us. Yeah, well the the problem is when the government
's cracked down on people, right? That they begin to hate us. Because they look who caused it,
right? And that's that's the argument. A lot of hypotheticals in that argument, but I do hear you.
Well, I'll tell you this: you can go to any of these countries that you that we're talking about,
right? Pretty much the majority of the world, right? And if you have a dollar,
they want your dollar bill, right? They want dollars. They don't want Bitcoin.
They want dollars because their currencies are being hyperinflated away to shit.
Now you introduce stablecoin so that anybody can get dollars and they can begin transacting peer
to peer in dollars. And man, you know, you're going to destabilize a lot of countries.
And what that leads to, we don't know. We never know. Right, we just destabilize shit,
and then we figure out later what we what we've done. But I'm a little bit cautious on. Well,
I'm cautiously optimistic on stablecoins, but I can I can envision very negative scenarios.
And what happens in Japan? Right, are people still going to want yen when they can just trade in
dollars? And then what what happens if you break the back of the yen? Right? Doesn't that? I mean,
they were already going to do it. They were already going to do it, right? Just with crypto.
But now, I mean, if they want, they can issue treasuries and they can back their own stable coins
with their currency. There's nothing stopping them from doing that. Agreed. Agreed.
But we we can all agree the the that the dollar, the U.S. Dollar, is the world's tallest midget.
Right? No matter what currency you're talking about, the dollar's stronger. Period. Softbank,
the major venture capital firm out of Japan, is also a major participant
in this XXI product dark side. So yeah, I think you're right, bro. I think that one of the ways
they're going to slow the death of the dollar is stable coins are going to be a speculative attack
on the fiat regime globally. Meanwhile, smart, savvy governments are going to transition to Bitcoin
as the international unit of account and store of value. And predominant means
of international trade. Meanwhile, XRP is a reality, but that's the banking rails, you know.
But freedom money. One of the I won't be long with this ramble. One of the things that I love is
we're moving to an era of magic again, where truly it is your merit and your mind that will mark you
as distinguished. Right? It's it's like no longer is it did your daddy go to the right college?
Is your mommy rich? Da da da da da. It's like do you understand Bitcoin?
Do you understand this technology? Do you understand the open source things that are that are
available to you, right? And these things are building so rapidly to where we will be
able to express Bitcoin publicly audited value and retain our Fourth Amendment
right to protection from unreasonable searches and seizures, right? So, like Darkside, you, me,
and Gary could decide that we want to open up a business. We emails exchanges, even
and funds go back and forth. We have a right in America to those records being private,
and these technologies are coming to Bitcoin, and so the value add to these things, guys,
is tremendous. I know that's a little bit there, but returning back to the Japan thing,
I think you're right, bro. But I think the the the again the major venture capital firm
Japan is already seeing okay. Let's get participation with the major winning players in the U.S.
So boom, that's the the CEP play and XXI, and then meanwhile, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
the Bitcoin transition is happening. I land the plane there, but yeah, awesome conversation, guys.
I have a quick question for the group. I used to work in Argentina about once a month.
This was maybe. Seven years ago, and you'd walk down the street, and there'd be maybe a dozen guys
and girls that would be yelling "Cambio, cambio, cambio." They're looking for,
and that means I think change, like exchange. They're looking for my dollars to exchange.
For the the pay the Argentinian peso peso, they'd give it a better rate than I could get
because there's like a black market there. And then when I would tip the waitress and waiter,
a tip in cash, their their eyes would light up like, "Thank you for tipping in dollar.
" Here's where my question comes in: is why is why is the U.S. Kind of the leader
in Bitcoin adoption versus some of these other countries when When they can firsthand see
what's happening to their currency, versus a lot of Americans, they don't really see the dollar
being devalued hurting them as much as quickly. I guess I've always been confused why you know
third world or other currencies haven't adopted Bitcoin quicker than than the U.S. Curious
if anyone has any thoughts. So I'll take a shot. I think the barriers to friction. Go ahead.
I'll be quick. I think the barriers to friction to fiat arbitrage are a lot smoother. So
if I'm in Argentina, I can touch the dollar a lot quicker than a B, you know,
than a UTXO L1 with Bitcoin. Do you feel me? So especially you know four years ago. So,
but but great great kind of avenue for inquiry for sure. Yeah, I would just add that you know what
you're what you're missing is capital controls. Most of these countries have
very strict capital controls that make it either illegal or absolutely impossible to get from
Bitcoin back to their local currency, right? But they can India, yeah, Egypt.
We can go right down the line of wasn't illegal. Wasn't illegal for them to get to the U.S. Dollar
too? Don't they have capital controls to switch to the dollar? Absolutely,
and they make it almost impossible to get dollars. And that's my point about stablecoins. Right,
the thing the thing with stablecoins is that they will not be able to control them the way
they can control the U.S. Dollar. Remember, if you try to send dollars to your friend in Egypt,
you have to use the SWIFT system, right? And that means that that local bank, right,
is going to seize the dollars, and they're going to give your friend the local Egyptian pound,
right? You really don't have a peer-to-peer methodology, right? Now you're going to bypass that
with anybody with a with a cell phone can get, you know, U.S. Stablecoins, dollars,
dollar back stablecoins, tether, right? And and what does that mean? When these things are in
the wild, trillions and trillions of them are in the wild. What does the regime in Egypt do
when they realize they can't they can't control it the way they do currently
with the banking system? Means they have to compete in a free market. That's what it means.
They can't. They can't. These are these are dictatorial regimes. They don't care about competing.
Why are you picking on my boy El Cici? What's going on here? No, I mean I'm just
you know it's not just Egypt, right? That's just a great example because we talk about it a lot.
We have a couple of Egyptian speakers that come up and kind of lay out the situation,
but ultimately the government's going to crack down. Right, and they're going to shut off
the internet if they have to. They're going to do things that are counterproductive to society. So,
you know, I would just suggest to you, it's be careful what you wish for, right?
The devil you know is better than the devil. Now put yourself, now put yourself in the shoes
of the people living there, right? You, you, you were, you were in a situation where, you know,
your government was holding you back from essentially the thing that you actually want to own,
and because it's not, it's not good for them. It's good for you, but it's not good for them. Okay,
and now some new legislation passes that that gives you the ability to.
Ability to to to buy the thing that you wanted, right? And and then they now you are taking the you
're you're assuming the next act is for is that they are going to go ahead
and do some sketchy stuff to stop their people from being able to do that,
or do they realize the writing's on the wall and the the momentum of crypto is is that They need to
kind of get with the program and figure out how to compete. Yeah. So what you're talking about
is revolution, right? Ultimately, you don't necessarily. Well, dictatorial governments
don't just all of a sudden see the writing on the wall. That's just not how the you know the world
works. Who said all of a sudden? No, but you're you're gonna force all of a sudden
when you introduce trillions of dollars of you realize that it just passed, right? It's it's done.
It's done. I'm well aware of what's going on. I'm just, I'm suggesting to you be careful what
you wish for, right? Because you know, and also to be clear, I'm not wishing for it.
I'm just commenting on what is happening. No, I understand. But the second order effects
and the knock on effects also, very often, we don't consider them when we jump into, you know,
a plan. And let's be honest, the reason why the government is enacting this plan
is to bail themselves out. They're looking for buyers of treasuries. They're not.
They're not considering the health. That is a good point. Foreign currencies when they're making
this plan, right? The Democrats and the Republicans never agree on anything,
but they agree that we need to bail out the U.S. Government. So, yeah, together we're going to issue
stable coins. Whenever the Republicans and the Democrats agree on anything,
that's when I become extremely skeptical of the motives. Hey, better than stealing oil with boots
on the ground in Afghanistan or something like that, I guess. I mean, I agree with you,
but but does it turn into the same thing? Is what what I'm suggesting to you? Yeah, I hope not.
They're not mutually exclusive, right? Would be the the first thing, and like the the second
and third order effects are definitely right. There there is a ton in play,
and this was the only option to kick the can down the road. That that we had reached kind
of this overwhelming point that who we had to find somebody, and this was the market
where you could get somebody. I have a couple interesting things though. Update:
Donald Trump just like two or three minutes ago posted a six minute video
with the caption "greatest Bitcoin explanation of all time." So I I've got the audio up.
If at some point we want to listen to what Donald Trump is calling the greatest Bitcoin explanation
of all time, I'd be happy to play that for you guys. And then secondly, Yv got dark here
and he's active and engaged. I'm really curious. So right, I I pointed out.
I don't know that everybody like took me as seriously as it is. There's actually several countries
that I've been working with about modern like crypto modernization. Specifically,
we've kicked around some ideas around Bitbond and other things. And I'd be curious from dark,
like what's that? Like, could you walk me through like the actual process of a country
wanted to issue some Bitcoin-backed treasuries and do like how how would that actually look in
your opinion? Well, there's two ways to do it, right? There's the the kind of pure way,
which is the country needs to go out and actually acquire the Bitcoin to include with
their local currency in a bond offering, which is the harder way to do it.
The easier way to do it would be to go to a company like 21 and do a structured product. Right,
so I I see we have Maryland in the audience, Maryland. We want to talk a little bit
about what what does a Bitcoin structured product look like? You've done a ton of work
on the subject. I would consider you an absolute expert. What do you think twenty one could do for
a developing nation using a Bitcoin Bitcoin structured product? Yeah, I think there's and honestly,
I think this could be the end all play for kind of strategy as well. It's basically being
a a Treasury structured product to kind of bail out sovereigns across the world
of lesser credit ratings that maybe can't. Print their own currency effectively.
So the example with twenty one, you know, the way we we've been positioning it,
or I've been positioning it, my thought or head is basically they're going to the U.S. Government
will do a pilot program through twenty one. That hoard of forty two thousand
Bitcoin will basically be utilized up front to help structure the the T bills and SoftBank
and Cancer, or of course, front the money up front, give the government.
It's basically full allocation. Say it's a trillion dollars. We do an eighty twenty. So basically.
The the structure works out in this scenario, and the flow of funds are different between
whether it's the treasury actually doing it internally, or whether it's 21 actually doing
the monetization of the bitcoin. And then, of course, if you want to take it out to other sovereigns
around the world, to Dark's point, you know, you're going to have to potentially use like a 21
or an intermediary to help structure the product, and then they're going to monetize the bitcoin
on the from a trust perspective on behalf of the sovereign. So the way I have it in my head is
the 80 20 would work. Say it's the U.S. Government on a pilot program. Basically,
they twenty-one is going to monetize the twenty-one or the twenty percent of the Bitcoin volatility
over the course of the loan. Say it's a ten-year bond. Basically, they'll end up doing
the government will pay one percent, and then from one to say where the ten-year is currently four
and a half percent, the bondholder will get a hundred percent of the Bitcoin gain,
and that could actually be annualized. So if Bitcoin actually performs well that year,
they can immediately do it, or they can defer it. You could structure it that way.
And then at the end, anything above the four and a half percent
essentially gets split fifty-fifty between the sovereign and the bond holder.
But in the case of like a twenty-one, that ultimately would be twenty-one to hold. And basically,
what they're going to do is they're going to monetize off the gains of the the Bitcoin
and pay out the bond holder, and then retain the Bitcoin for their own. Plus,
they'll make their fee. Yeah, so I think just to to clarify that, right?
I think what we're suggesting is that using a company like Twenty One,
they will substantially lower the borrowing cost for the sovereign, right?
The sovereign will be able to go to Twenty One and get their loan at let's say let's say
we're talking about a lower lesser sovereign than the U.S., maybe it's four percent
when the current market price is ten percent, right? They then turn around and create this bid bond.
Right for for that com for that country, and then they go ahead and sell the structured product
to investors, and the investors are looking at anywhere from an eight
to potentially a fourteen percent yield over the course of the bond, right?
And that arbitrage between the two is created by fiat, right? The fact that fiat is is is
so heavily debased, Bitcoin's cager combined with Bitcoin's volatility creates a huge opportunity
for a company like Twenty One and a and a strong trading desk to monetize that profit, right?
And I assure you that if you went to to 21 today and said, hey, the U.S. Government
wants to borrow money at 1% for 10 years, right? And and you we could turn around and leverage
the U.S. Government's credit rating by selling a structured product. They would take the deal,
right? They would actually loan money for 10 years at 1%, right? And then turn around
and combine that like on an 80-20 and offer the investor, you know, a much higher than the current
four and a half percent. And this whole thing is it sounds crazy, but it's all made possible
by the fact that fiat's absolute garbage, and there's a natural arbitrage between fiat and Bitcoin.
Dark. I think the the magic really starts once they can bring it in to the treasury,
because they can put the Bitcoin, one hundred percent of the Bitcoin, into the reserve,
and they can print the monetization portion. They don't have to sell off the Bitcoin,
and at that point, you start a flywheel similar to what Michael Saylor is doing,
and you know you are able to to monetize your debt. You are able to essentially get one percent
on refinancing your entire. Thirty six, thirty seven over time, right?
As long as the the strength of the demand remains at the long end, and you can also do
all your infrastructure projects, right? But the key of all this is the fact
that the dollar dominance across the world is is absolutely key to making the flywheel work,
because you know as you're taking more Bitcoin off out of supply, basically that's improving
your credit rating overall, because now you're starting to make the asset side
of the sovereign balance sheet work, which typically historically has not been the case. Yeah,
I would just throw it throw out there that this is not without severe consequence.
We talked about second order effects of stablecoins. The second order effect of actually repricing
the free cost of money from its current four and a half percent up to maybe ten percent would have
lasting consequences for a huge part of the economy. Namely, real estate. Namely,
the existing bond market. Namely, you know, car loans. I mean, there's nothing
that wouldn't be affected by raising the free cost of money substantially. So
while the interest rate for the government goes down, the interest rate for the individual
goes way up, right? And that's that's that's the the fear that's been put into sort of let's call it
sophisticated Wall Street. They understand this. But it's coming, and they can't stop it.
These structured products are going to come out, whether the government likes it or not, right?
We know C.J. Constantinos, the People's Reserve, they're working on a bit bond. Like they're coming,
so you know you can ignore it if you want to, but you're not going to be able to stop it. Dustin,
does that help at all, or do you have any any questions? No, I, I, I. Again, this is to me.
It's it's fascinating. It's a little bit out of my traditional wheelhouse,
so I I really appreciate you guys like really diving in and explaining it.
I I understand why we constantly go back to the U.S. As kind of the the stock example. Um,
I I guess the choice what for if you were selling this to uh you know a small country
's you know leader, what what what's the selling point for a small nation to get out in front
of this and be one of the first to do it? Well, they're going to get to borrow money
at a cheaper price. Right, that's the selling pitch, right? If your current, if your,
if a current bond issue, which would probably be even hard to float for many
of the smaller countries, right? They're now going to float a U.S. Dollar-based bond instead
of their local currency, right? That makes a lot of sense for them if they're able to do it,
and if you have a party like 21, which is happy to interposition themselves,
then it becomes a home run for everybody. Well, and dark also being early to the the show,
instructing these products, the the bonds that. Are early will perform the best
as adoption increases, right? If if the theory is correct, and this is kind of the way
that we're potentially going, even through a pilot program, and we're hitting the second part
of the S curve, these bonds are going to end up being the best performing.
The early bonds that are structured are going to be the best performing sovereign bonds ever,
and it'll just continue. The earlier you are, the better it will be. I also imagine these early ones
will be wildly oversubscribed, right? Because there's just so much money looking to get in. Yeah,
because you're getting look. If you do an eighty an eighty twenty U.S. Treasury deal, right,
and let's just use current rates, you can because because the spread between the one percent and
the four and a half percent or five percent, right, is what it is. You basically even
if Bitcoin goes back to zero, the principal's guaranteed for the investor, right?
So they're really not taking any risk to the principal, but yet they're giving themselves
huge upside potential with the Bitcoin. So you know the the structured product companies
are going to be offering these principal guaranteed bonds, or I don't know,
I guess you'll call them a bond, a note, right, a structured note. So it'll be principal guaranteed,
but may have upside north of ten percent, depending on the the performance of Bitcoin
over the the lifespan of the structured note. That's wild, right? Like that—that shouldn't be.
But again, none of this should be. Like strategy shouldn't be. None of none
of these Bitcoin treasury companies should be. They're all—they're all caused by an arbitrage
between the dollar debasement and Bitcoin's cager, right? That's the natural arbitrage
which is creating all of these crazy market effects. And I think a lot of people get lost in that.
Like there's just that—that arbitrage exists. And as as Bitcoin has you know garnered
this tremendous institutional adoption, as these products come on the market,
remember every bit bomb that's structured, every bit annuity that's structured is going to require
a certain amount of Bitcoin to be sequestered in escrow for the term of the note.
So at some point you're just going to hit a supply shock where there's just not enough Bitcoin
to structure all these products, and and the only relief valve will be much much higher prices. Yep,
dark and and also the thing too is we were mentioning earlier that like you know the the issue
that The stablecoins, right, present for currencies, these other currencies, but if they can,
if they can back their own bonds and their their own treasuries, right, with Bitcoin,
that essentially puts them on on the same level as cash or better, which is crazy,
and that cements Bitcoin as the asset, as the number one asset for collateral, which is crazy,
the most pristine, yeah, most pristine collateral on earth. And just to that point, if this is true,
if this goes the way we're talking about right now, that is insane, and yeah. Which you could do.
Look, you know, I've pointed out the potential negatives. Now here's the potential positive, right?
As dollar dominance increases around the world, do many of these countries just peg their currency
to the dollar and start issuing bitcoins? Exactly. Right, right. Like that's the solution.
That's the the perfect solution that everybody wants. Right, so it's not it's not as if it's it's
a guaranteed negative consequence, right? But those countries that are willing to say screw it,
I'm just going to peg my currency to the dollar and issue bit bonds and work with companies like 21
who are going to become the new J.P. Morgans of the world, right? That that changes
that changes everything. And yeah, because Bitcoin. Sorry, dark. Dark.
How how much of a problem does this create for a country with the IMF
and the the TradFi banking system? Well, what you know, I would answer that question with what kind
of problem does stablecoins present to the Fed? Right, because at some point, what do you need
the Federal Reserve for? The Treasury can issue these short-term short-term bills
and bonds directly to to the stablecoin companies. So, is this whole is this whole kind
of new monetary regime just an end run around the IMF, the BIS, the Federal Reserve, the ECB,
the the JCB? Like, are we just are we just going to make an end run around all of these you know
twentieth century institutions and go into a twenty first century world? Well,
now now we're cooking with grease. Here's the question for you the the IMF. Aren't we?
A large percentage of the funds used by the IMF. I mean, the administration. Yeah, over fifty. Yes.
So the IMF will take care. The The administration will take care of the IMF. Like it'll have if
the U.S. Pivots in this direction. There's nothing they can do. Except I'm not talking about
like number one. I'm not talking about the U.S. I'm talking about another nation, smaller nation,
adopting and issuing a product like this that already has beef and trouble with the IMF. And right,
I'm I'm dragging. We're thinking second, third order effects here, right? Like,
does a small country issuing this? Face the wrath, as right like are they made an example of?
Do they face repercussions from the banking system that doesn't want to be unred? Well,
the question I I I turn the question back around on you: Is this small country willing to peg
its currency to the dollar? Because that's how you deal with the IMF. I mean, I mean,
that's probably a bigger lift than like what's currently on the table. Yeah,
except that's where I think we're headed, right? I think that that whole twentieth-century
monetary regime of central banking, which the IMF is a part of, I think it's on the way out. Right,
and I think the new regime coming in, which is more of a stablecoin dollar dominance, you know,
world world currency regime. That's where it just seems to me that's where we're headed.
And ultimately, the IMF will be controlled by the U.S. Treasury at some point, right? Now,
obviously, not immediately, but I think that's where it's all headed. To Maryland's point. Well,
but I mean, it's the digital petrodollar. Two point. Right, but but from a Practical standpoint,
right? Like, be honest. I don't know that I have the ability to get them right. Like, we.
I. I need some. I need to just bring them into the crypto. It's. It's kind of almost the discussion
that we've had about self custody versus custodial, which is I just need to get this country
to start like building up their Bitcoin reserve and offer right like give them some benefit.
They've seen what's happening in El Salvador, and that's kind of like the the guidepost of like
how how do we do something like that that incorporates what we're doing, like getting them to.
Completely upturn like their currency. I don't think it's far off, but I don't think it's.
I don't think we get there before we get something else done. Yeah, well, I agree with you.
I think that the IMF, if if your country is already in trouble with the IMF, which is just, I mean,
don't even get me started on the IMF, right? Like they are the worst of
the worst of twentieth century banking. But ultimately, we have to see the IMF dissolved to
some degree, right? Like there has to be a resolution to the IMF problem
because it really hasn't worked. Right, if you're the U.S. Government,
the IMF has been an absolute disaster for you, right? It's costing us a fortune.
We really can't afford it. So ultimately, there has to be a better solution than IMF loans, right?
And I think that in the new world we're going into in this new monetary regime,
it looks something more like, you know, a new IMF, a new U.S. Treasury-backed operation to help
foreign countries, but they have to be pegged to the dollar. Right, and they have to have
a stable currency. In other words, try to do positive things for these countries instead of
just using these loans to steal their resources, which is what the IMF has done for the last.
Exactly. See, you and I were actually saying the same thing the whole time. To be honest,
I think I think what you were saying too, as far as the you know the positive, the possible
and negative effects that could happen, kind of assumes. That those countries' leaders all care
zero percent about what their population. You got to assume that they at least want their population
to think that they're you know trying to forward their interests a bit too.
And when it's this is such a lob, right, to kind of to kind of bring their economy closer to par
or something that can at least interact with the rest of the world. Where I allow these individuals
to interact, you know, with an economy that gives them a chance. So I don't know.
They could like it's for every leader that has that opportunity. They really have an opportunity
to kind of hit a fucking grand slam if they if they go about it properly. If they
and if they come at it with the right attitude. Well, I also what I'm hearing from you guys
is like build a Bitcoin strategic reserve, right? Like at the end of the day. Acquire now,
and you figure out some of the other products later. But that's also going to be one
of those critical components that gets more and more difficult to accumulate.
I think that's also a pretty strong selling point. Listen, I appreciate the discussion on it. I,
dark, I might would let's have discussion this week. I'll reveal some more of the cards
I want to do publicly. Yeah, of course, and yeah, I think hold. Look, taking their reserves
and holding it in Bitcoin, you know, will put them in a position to dollarize themselves
as stable coins permeate through their society. Right, there has to be an understanding
of what's coming. Right, and either you're going to fight it, and remember,
there's going to be China and BRICS and a lot of countries which are pushing back hard
against dollar dominance. So, you know, what we have coming up is going to be,
you know, a a mortal combat between the dollar and foreign countries.
To this, I like the direction we took this space. This was good. Yeah, it's great subject, right?
Like this is really Bitcoin as the most pristine collateral is the real Bitcoin discussion, right?
We are transitioning from magic internet money used for drugs and all that crazy stuff.
Then we kind of graduated into you know some type of financial asset. And then the next move
from here is Bitcoin as pristine collateral, and I think the real judge, you know,
to Saylor's credit, he's introduced these perpetual prefers. I always talk about this, but STRF,
which really, if you if you understand the the product, it's really nothing more
than a fiat yield curve on Bitcoin, right? Currently, Bitcoin's yielding through STRF
as you're yielding in the eights, right? As that gets down into the fives,
and and and it turns out that Bitcoin actually is yielding lower than long term U.S. Treasuries.
That's when the world flips. Right, so so you know, to sellers' credit,
he's created the product for the market to go ahead
and determine what is the real credit rating of Bitcoin, and it is STRF.
So on the arbitrage thing, if Trump got what he wanted and the Fed dropped us down to a flat one,
wouldn't that exacerbate like the issue here? Does that speed like does that put on hyperdrive
the adoption of these financial products? You know, it's really interesting
because what what really would happen if you go ahead and cut the front end of the curve down
to one? I don't know what happens to the long end of the curve, but I suspect it's not good, right?
And remember, you can't, I can't do that. Yeah, the front end, the front end's four right now. Yeah,
yeah. If you drop it down to one, that forces you into some form of yield curve control, right?
Where the Fed is now doing like an operation twist type thing, where they're buying the long end
and selling the short end. And and then the Fed's balance sheet explodes higher,
that puts us into all kinds of other problems. So, yeah, there's there's really there's
no easy solution. But I suspect that yield curve control, operation twist,
whatever you want to call it, is coming our way because they really want to drop the front end
of the curve. The whole stablecoin concept almost requires that the front end of the curve be around
one. If not, you're just paying this. You're paying the stablecoin companies fortunes of money
to print your own dollars, and that makes no sense. Right for for us Americans,
why do we want to pay J P Morgan or Tether or Circle four and a half percent to print our dollars?
We just print our own dollars. You're you're spending your hegemony. Well, yeah, yes,
but you're doing so at at a significant cost to your balance sheet. You know, one of no,
they're not printing them; they're exchanging one for one. Well, yes and no, right? I mean,
you're creating you're creating new debt because we because we we we run at a deficit. Right.
If our deficit's two and a half trillion dollars, well, you're printing two
and a half trillion dollars every year, and then you're paying some stablecoin company four
and a half percent for the pleasure of printing the two and a half trillion dollars.
I must be misunderstanding something. Because I was under the I was under the impression
that a stablecoin you give one paper dollar for one stablecoin and the the stablecoin company
just simply buys bonds with that money that you give that they were given right but but those bonds
those bonds have an interest rate and us as our us as the citizen of the country they do have to pay
they do have to pay the interest rate correct no we pay it they don't pay it we pay it
yes right that's our interest expense so yes so as our interest expense begins to grow currently
at a trillion I get it what happens when yes exactly exactly. Hey guys, I have a quick question.
I I appreciate you guys bringing me up the first time I've been on, but I'll try
and just make my point quick. I just wanted to bring up with MicroStrategy and Michael Saylor
and with his position, which is probably undoubtedly going to be the largest.
Public company holding Bitcoin. What do you guys see the long game for the way the future
of Wall Street investment and companies, treasury companies like MicroStrategy will be? I mean,
with him being the largest percentage holder, the way I see it is if Michael Saylor glued the door
shut at MicroStrategy and hopped on a yacht and and sailed across the world,
his company's still going to go up in value at the quickest rate. Because he holds the most Bitcoin,
and that's what's gonna, whether it's the entire component or whether it's just a partial component
of what is gonna comprise the value of a company in the future, he's gonna have the largest share,
almost undoubtedly, as a private company. So, what what's your guys' thought on that?
About as far as how the long term strategy plays out for MicroStrategy. Well, I think of, I mean,
if you're asking me, I I I believe that at some point. He turns around
and uses his pristine collateral to acquire real businesses. Well, he but no time soon. Yeah,
I mean he may do that, and I I would agree. And honestly, that's the premise
that I originally invested in that with you know with him on that. But my thoughts are just
that in the future, when you're looking at how companies are valued on Wall Street.
It's going to be a. It's going to be some type of hybrid between the value that the company brings
and the value of the Bitcoin that they hold. That's appreciating. Still.
And and so it's just going to continuously grow over time. But his will grow faster
because he's holding the most Bitcoin. So he's going to. Yeah, I'll say. I'll say. Let me say this,
Mike. That the last fifty years has seen the the real. I don't know what the right word is.
The real kind of genesis of the income statement, as the, as sort of the core valuation
of Wall Street companies, they're sort of valued on on their income sheet.
On their income statement, right? I think we're going towards a world in which balance sheet
gets revalued to a level that we've not seen before, right? So, so companies
with great balance sheets but poor income statements have not done great.
But in the new world where Bitcoin's on the balance sheet, I think you get into a different regime
where companies are valued based on their balance sheet just as much as they're valued based on
their income statement. Right. Yeah, but dark side. I'm I'm not lending you my Bitcoin
unless you pay my percentage. That's the whole point of Bitcoin. It's decentralization.
So it's it's a decentralized finance. So you don't have to fall for the system,
the current system that they tell you what they're paying you. You're in charge.
If if you don't want to lend it, you don't lend it. I think that's a valid point.
I don't think there's going to be this lending of Bitcoin, right? I think there's going to be
structured products created by the Bitcoin using dollars. Like I don't,
I'm not envisioning the dollar going away, being replaced by Bitcoin. What I'm envisioning is that
the U.S. Government's balance sheet gets improved tremendously through Bitcoin acquisition.
So at least that's my hope, right? If we if we end up in a world where the dollar collapses
and all all all fiat currencies collapse, at least if that happens quickly,
you know that's not a good thing for anybody on this space, even if you have a lot of Bitcoin.
Right, that would be violence and all types of bad, bad outcomes. Well, I mean,
the whole point is is for us to get back in control, and that's the whole point of Bitcoin.
It's called decentralization, and I'm not repeating myself because I'm because I'm
because I'm doing it for fun. But that that's that that was the original point is is to put
the money back in the people's hands. So that's what's happening right now.
Bitcoin is putting the money back in the people's hands. So now, guess what? We're in control.
And and now, before it was a little bit of control. Now you had small control.
Now you have countries buying Bitcoin. Now you have countries like El Salvador. Stellar dude,
what what what an investment that guy did! You know that's the result of putting the money back
in the people's hands. So they previously were reliant on the U.S. Dollar,
then they switched from relying on the U.S. Dollar to relying on Bitcoin, and guess what?
The investment paid off because it's it's now they are decentralized. They put their money back
into their own hands, and and that's the whole point. We need to gain control.
We need to be in control. So that's that's the whole point of Bitcoin. Back to the people.
We are the power. I don't disagree. I mean, look, you know that that's a very anarchist approach.
Certainly, I subscribe to it. I hold Bitcoin in self custody, right? That's the way I view as
taking control of my own my own domain. So I agree with what you're saying. But ultimately,
I don't I don't see Bitcoin replacing the current monetary regime anytime soon.
And the fact that governments are starting to acquire Bitcoin, stack Bitcoin, El Salvador
is a perfect example, right? Means that you know the the government's currency will be backed in
some degree by Bitcoin. Yeah, but guess what. You can't take my money,
and you don't know how much I really have. And if I want to lend it to you for X amount, I can.
Look at Jason up here. Look at look at Gary up here. You know, nobody knows how much we really have.
But guess what? If we want to lend it to you, and and and the percentage right, guess what?
It's called decentralization. Now I am in control. If I want to lend it to you for ten percent,
I lend it to you for ten percent. You just don't take my money out of my bank
because it's sitting in my bank, and and you feel entitled. Now I'm in control. That money,
or or whoever you lend it to, spends it. It's not going to be it's not going to be rocket science
to find out where it came from. No, no, no. But you're not getting it. I'm in control.
It's my wallet. Come on, Max. Come on up. We want to let's talk a little bit about El Salvador
and how you see nation states that hold Bitcoin playing out versus nation states like the U.S.
That are on a fiat regime. Yeah, I'd love to get Max's take. Max has the best legs in Bitcoin. Max,
you have an invite. When you can come on up, please do. Jason, what about Mike Alfred? No, no.
Max's legs are are fantastic. Hal Finney had good legs as well, but I mean,
but Max definitely the greatest legs in Bitcoin. So Max, thanks for coming up, man.
So what are you thinking? What are you thinking? An artist approach. I have the best legs
in Bitcoin, you know. It's because I have Bitcoin, I'm able to realize my dream of being
a leg model. And this is, you know, if you look at some of these commercials on TV for pantyhose
and stuff, those are my legs, you know, and I'm very proud of that. And this is one of the promises
of Bitcoin. One of the joys of Bitcoin is you can just do what you really want to do. Now,
as far as nation state goes, so you know, I've often said that central banks
and nation states don't survive Bitcoin. So, central banks are definitely cooked.
The nation states are going to disintegrate. Like somebody earlier was talking about Egypt and say,
"Well, Egypt, you know, the people are going to start using dollars and that's going to bypass
the government." Well, the government is going to be buying Bitcoin, and anyone who's got
the ability to buy Bitcoin will buy Bitcoin. And those who are stuck trading dollars
are going to deal with the with the rampant inflation, and they're going to starve to death.
And this is the great bifurcation. This is the this is the end of the nation state
because they won't be able to manage this. I don't think it's an orderly transition.
Don't think the U.S. Dollar stays as world reserve currency. So we're entering into a new era,
and Bitcoin is both creating the chaos and responding to the chaos. Max,
what's your bull case for end of twenty twenty twenty twenty five? My, I'm sorry, what?
What's your bull case for the end of the year? Well, you know, it's that on the demand side.
It's it's an unbelievably strong picture, and on on the supply side we know that it's shrinking.
So it's just just stack. You know, I I never like to give both price and time
and a date because then I would be burned at the stake as a witch. But because of what I know,
I've seen because I'm Satoshi speaks through me. I'm the bishop of Satoshi here on planet Earth.
But I can just tell you that we're going higher as we haven't sank since 2010. So 2025 is.
It's just the demand for this perfect money is insatiable, and the supply is finite.
So the price discovery is higher. That's all you need to know. Just stack, stack, stack
till your hands bleed. Brilliant, Max. Brilliant. So, when, when, if you had to kind of use
your crystal, crystal ball, when do you see U.S. Dollar reserve status kind of coming to an end,
or real inflation kicking off on U.S. Dollars? Like, you know, I've always kind of envisioned
that Bitcoin around five to seven hundred thousand dollars is sort of checkmate.
What's your thoughts? Well, first of all, I have two crystal balls. I don't know if you noticed.
And so, as the price ratchets higher, you have this emerging class of Bitcoin billionaires, like.
Last week we saw eighty thousand Bitcoin that that was classified as lost.
A lot of Bitcoin classified as lost. Well, guess what? They're not lost. So those are billions
and billions of dollars coming out of the woodwork from long-term OGs and hodlers.
And as the price goes two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand, four hundred thousand,
that that group take control. He who has the Bitcoin makes the rules, and that's the ruling class.
And we're heading into this great bifurcation: either you have Bitcoin,
or you're going to starve to death. Essentially, because the dollar is stable coins.
There's a conversation about stable coins. It's it's it's it's not going to create a net gain
in demand for dollars. At best, it'll the demand for dollars will stay stagnant.
But I have a feeling the demand for dollars will go down because all they're doing is
they're building this massive on ramp into Bitcoin for all these people who are trapped.
They're building demand for treasuries. Yeah, well, but I don't I don't think the net demand
aggregate. I don't think the net I don't think it goes up. I think it stays flat
because they're going to just bypass that as well. People are not going to be, you know,
they're going to just go right into Bitcoin, right? They're building a massive on ramp to Bitcoin.
So why would you hold dollars except for some minor transactions? So I'm not bullish on the dollar
at all. And I look at the bond market, which has had the worst decade in its history. That tells me,
as somebody who's been in markets for 40 years, that there's not the demand for for this
the U.S. Treasury for the Treasury for bonds is not it's not happening.
And stable coins is not the great hope that's going to fill in those. That vacuum of demand,
it's just going to create a massive on ramp for Bitcoin. And Bitcoin, again, it just you either
or you don't. Max, those those eighty thousand Bitcoin that were sold or transferred were those
were those dumped on the open market or sold to treasuries? I thought it was you at first,
but what what do you think was going on with those eighty thousand Bitcoin last week? Yeah,
I lost a bet to Stacy, so I had to give her my eighty thousand Bitcoin,
and now she's one of the richest people in the world. She tells me she's going to. Man,
it's going to be a a matriarchy. We're leaving. The world is becoming a matriarchy.
Going to be ruled by
women, and men will going to be sex slaves. That's apparently the future, as I understand it.
Okay. Sounds like Bezos, but so no comment to what those coins were doing or who from.
They they never got transferred, so they never went to the market. Yeah,
I think that they were just moved around. There, there was an interesting caveat to that.
There was some kind of note in the transaction about some legal, legalities that was attached to it.
But it's interesting, you know, that these hodlers were been. It's actually like sleeper cells.
It's like Bitcoin sleeper cells. The true financial terrorists. I've been sleeping on
their thousands and thousands of Bitcoin for more than a decade, and now
that they've they've got the Wall Street has fallen for their trap, and they've got ways now
to monetize it and to control all the levers of power. You know, we're coming out of the woodwork.
You know, and we're we're exercising our right to take control, which is our our right.
It's our Satoshi given right to take over, and that's what's happening right now, and it'll work.
The plan is genius. Max, you don't have to answer this one, and I'll stop asking questions
after this. But have you ever sold any Bitcoin? I my Bitcoin is so frozen
that they was going to be cast as Mr. Freeze in the remake of Batman. That's how frozen they are.
I mean, ask William. He tried to suck me into some scam two years ago, and I said, "Look, buddy,
I'm not giving up any of my Bitcoin, even for a good-looking guy like Jason. You know,
he can attest to that. These things are so hidden and frozen because I think, I think.
" I think at two hundred fifty thousand, if I'm looking looking at the numbers,
just in terms of global forex, and I think that's when you hit the tipping point.
I think that's when I think that's when we see just the utter collapse
in major financial dollar-based fiat money infrastructure, and the emergence of a new crystal city
of Bitcoin. I think two fifty is the magic number. Max, do you feel comfortable talking about
how you frozen your Bitcoin? No. Max, I just. I wonder how you're how you can be, not okay.
So you're clearly extremely bullish Bitcoin, but I wonder how you can be bullish Bitcoin
but not bullish. Like for me, like the biggest bull case right now is that United States
is doing is legislation creating using crypto to create demand for the treasuries using Tether
or stable coin, right? Like I, I. Bitcoin only goes up as long as there's a bid for it.
So as long as people want to buy it, and if if if other markets crumble,
generally all markets crumble. So so to sit here and say that the financial system is going to have
some great collapse, but Bitcoin is just going to continue to to rise,
I just don't understand logically how that how that could happen. I'm curious how you think
that that could happen. Well, I don't have any confidence in the U.S. At all. You know,
the debt is skyrocketing higher. They just passed this big beautiful bill. So how does I understand?
So how does the bid remain for Bitcoin? Well, this is still—you've got a total addressable market of
four hundred trillion dollars. It's only a two trillion. There's a lot of capital
sloshing around all over the world, like in the Middle East, for example, which is commodity-based
and oil-based. Like Aramco, they have yet to announce what their intentions are with Bitcoin.
I understand they're going to be announcing that soon. That's a huge, huge company,
and would set off a total Middle East panic buying of Bitcoin. They've got a lot of money.
The big Mega Seven—none of them have been participating. I mean, there's still the vast pools
of capital out there that have not yet figured this out, but they are now figuring it out.
And I'm I'm saying that the U.S. Is in deep trouble, and and they I don't I just I mean that's
my opinion, and I've been saying that for a long time. So you you know so it's not I made a film in
2014 years ago called The Death of the Dollar, right? So I've been saying this for a long time,
but with Bitcoin, as Chris Landegard said, it's the escape hatch, right? So
and once you have that escape hatch, it's the the the there's going to be a lot of people
getting out of the dollar. You know, the dollar is not popular. You know,
it's seen as a tool of oppression. All over the world, nobody likes the dollar. Really, I mean,
it's better than their local currency. What are you talking? It's a highly problematic currency.
Yeah, I think you know, Matt is making a really good argument for what we call the crack-up boom.
So there's two ways a economy can collapse. One is by massive deflation,
but the other is through massive inflation. They both land you in the exact same spot,
which is a depression. And I think what Matt is suggesting is there's no possible way we go into
a deflationary spiral when there's hundreds of trillions of dollars sloshing around the system.
Right, whether those dollars have been printed in the U.S. Or printed in Japan or anywhere else,
they're all fungible back into dollars, right, Max? Yeah, I mean exactly.
You look at the price of gold during the depression. Is is the Japanese yen right
because that's been the funding currency for the carry trade for twenty twenty five years?
And now the yen is coming under some pressure. The economy there now they might be forced to dump
their U.S. Treasuries. That would also be a net negative for U.S. Treasuries.
But this whole financialization, starting with Reagan and Thatcher, that's been going on
for 40 years. Just, just everything is a huge derivative built on derivative.
I agree with your bear case, but I wonder how that can happen. And like, I don't. I personally,
I try not to like guess. I kind of just react to markets. But I do, based on your the way
you're laying your theory out, I do wonder how the bear case. No one said no one said
that Bitcoin wouldn't go down in a in a transitory event, but doesn't mean it's going to stay down.
Usually, the the the greatest asset will have the greatest retracement first, and it'll recover.
But you had during the during during the Greenspan years, you had the Greenspan put right
every time markets went down. Greenspan would lower rates or print money.
So now you've got the sailor put. And and the treasury company put the demand on the bids
on the demand side are high and they just keep going higher and higher and higher.
So the demand side, the book on the demand side, the order book, you know,
is keeps getting more bigger, bigger, and the potential capital that's being cut into with
all these various strategies is enormous, right? It's it's it's 100x times where we are today
in terms of valuation for Bitcoin. So you could, so there's a, a lot of demand,
and now all the infrastructure is making it a lot easier, for access, and then you're going to have
a lot of people seceding from the system and going into private custody of keys,
and they're going to pull the plug on, on the nation state alone. Along with the central bank,
those two are co-terminus. There's like a 300-year experiment. It's coming to an end.
We're entering into a post-nation-state, post-central-bank era. Bitcoin is the surviving
perfect money that we use. And then how that shapes up sociologically,
and what the society looks like, and how that all shapes up. I mean, that's
an interesting discussion. But I don't think it's avoidable. I don't think there's a. I don't think
there's a way to tiptoe into this transition. I think it's going to be sudden.
Everything in nature is quantum, right? An electron to another in quantum nature. Electrons jump.
You know, things crack, and when and a system is highly complex, and when it cracks,
it just blows apart. The system to do a gradual transition would suggest that the underlying system
right now is somehow organized and well run. It's not. It's completely disorganized
and chaotic mess, and it's held together with printing money. And when you have an escape hatch,
and people blow out of that burning house, the house crashes. So, that's my opinion. And usually,
the neighborhood devalues at the same time. Fact, Max. Fact. Good. Good to have you here. Max,
quick. Go ahead. Go ahead. Quick, quick question, Max. You're you have a young family.
You've got a nice little stack. Not a ton of, not a not a massive stack,
but something you could live off of. And you're really not happy with the United States,
and you're looking to leave the United States for a whole bunch of reasons.
Where would you go with your family? Yeah, I think it's a it's a good question. You know, I mean,
I think you need to be agile and and really ready for anything. You know,
you get your bug out bag ready by the door and be prepared. You know, to to make a move
if you have to. And if you can get another second, third, or more passports, that's handy to have.
And there's things you can do. I think it's prudent to to do this, to be prepared. Even within
the United States, though, there's probably areas that are a lot better than others, right?
Like Wyoming, you know, those states up in the frozen Midwest seem to be like they got a lot
of sound money, people, a lot of cattle, and a lot of guns. Maybe that might be a good place to hang
out. The winters are harsh, but that might be a good place to hang out. Idaho. Northern Montana.
Hey Max, I've got a couple people asking me to ping you on El Salvador and the IMF.
I know there's been some controversy lately. The IMF kind of screaming that El Salvador
doesn't have the Bitcoin. What's going on? Well, you know, I don't know anything
that is not publicly, you know, published. I don't have any special information. I just know that in
El Salvador we keep stacking, and the IMF is on the wrong end of history. You know,
everything they say is goes completely against what the rest of the world is saying. Right?
The IMF says, "Well, Bitcoin is adding instability," whereas the U.S. Saying it's adding stability.
The IMF is saying it's an inflationary; everyone else says it's deflationary.
So they are really the odd man out. I don't think they, as I said, central banks are.
I think not long for this world. I think that includes the IMF. I don't think
that they're going to be around in five years. Their order book is historically at historic lows.
They're desperate for business. They really are at the end of their remit.
And then you know we're stacking. We got we and as somebody pointed out earlier,
we've got we're sitting on a very nice unrealized gain, and we're just stacking. And you know it's.
It's a it's a great it's a great country, El Salvador, and we've got a great leader,
and it's a great. A lot of families are moving there, and a lot of opportunities.
And how it all shakes out with the IMF, it's it's an ongoing story. It's it's an ongoing story,
and watch this space. Yeah, I'm looking forward to coming down there for the golf tournament
this year. I'm excited for it, man. Say, Max, Max, what do you think the biggest risk
to Bitcoin is right now? I don't, I don't, you know, it's it's perfect money. You know,
what do I mean by that? Is that it satisfies? The planetary destruction. Well,
it wouldn't hurt Bitcoin. I mean, you know, humans can go extinct,
and but Bitcoin would still be going. You know, the solar energy is plugged in,
and the robots will be here. We don't need it. You know, we need Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't need us.
So I don't. I think the risk is only us. We're the only ones at risk. Bitcoin's not at risk.
All right, guys. See you next week. Max knows how to close up a space. That was awesome, Gary. Dark,
you got anything else to say? I think we end. No, that was about as good as it gets, brother.
You guys come back and see us sometime, would you? And thank you to everybody that was here,
everybody that participated, everybody that was positive today and did something extra special
for another human being and did not take credit for it. I applaud you, Gary. Thank you, thank you,
thank you for the I am. I really enjoyed today's I am. I got a lot out of that one today,
so thank you. Thank you for attending every ten thirty a.m. Every Sunday, guys.
I do a Church if I am, I'm really digging doing what I'm doing. Don't really know what I'm doing,
but I'm doing it anyway. Four, five, six thousand people show up every Sunday,
and like I'm hearing some really unbelievable. Anyone that's struggling with life,
send them over to me. Okay, Doctor G will take them out, take care of them. But listen, you guys,
hold on to your Bitcoin. I do believe. Okay, this is a great entry point on Bitcoin. I really,
I so believe that. Oh, look, my brother's in the audience. Let me bring him up right quick.
See if he's actually speaking. Before I close up, see if he's there. Did anybody else? Hey, bro,
what's up, man? Did he make it? Yeah, he's up. Grant, what up, Grant? Jason has his hand up,
which I've never seen. Jason, I didn't know Jason. Yeah, Gary, check your DMs.
There's a kid who goes to my gym. He's really a big fan of yours, and he wants to buy a piece of art
from you, which is cool. No, I'm being serious. So if you would check your DMs, I mean,
if you're if you're into that, yeah, he's a. We'll do, buddy. That's really kind of.
Really kind of thank you. I'll check. I'll check it out. Check it out. Okay,
my brother not coming up. Dustin, you got anything to close this out on? I sell paintings. We've got
more money. I can take in poker night. Yeah, huh? Did you guys crush? Did you have fun, Dustin,
or what? Do a little ad for our our poker game, okay, for people that travel to. Yeah,
so two weeks from now we're gonna do another poker night. Everybody is welcome. It was a bunch of.
Not everybody. Not yeah. You you. Listen, Dana's got to give you the blessing. Otherwise,
like we we can't have no schmucks in there. It's a but really incredible game.
We're gonna figure out how to stream it so that you guys can get some of the gameplay
and conversation. It's gonna be absolutely still fucking tickets to it. You can bet on Dustin
and me. Okay, you can bet against us. We're gonna put it on Poly Market, Dustin. Right?
You're working with that, right? You know, you know, I'm always cooking every angle to maximize
my wins. And we're yeah, we're working on that NFL deal too, right? Yeah, no,
and I've got a bridge that I'm selling in San Francisco. Somebody should get hold of me. Uh. So
how how do you get into the poker game? Send your passport, license, and five thousand dollar
prepayment. Also, Tuesday night debate night last week, me and Darnish stomped out Gary and Dave.
I don't know what our topic. Oh, bro! Did did hey? How did the survey results come out?
Because I thought that was a lot of fun. You guys were fucking horrible. We we we came out on top.
I believe like fifty six forty four on that one. Well, you know, doesn't surprise me with some
of the people that follow you, idiots. Oh man, that's the first one that I've been on
the winning team. I've always had to take the beat up side. I don't know what we're what
are we debating this week? Do you know? Well, I have no idea. I don't. Yeah, I have no idea.
I thought somebody else was coming up with that kind of stuff. I I I know that we have
the next like four or five topics all laid out. I just don't know. We'll have to get with Jamie
and Dana. But Tuesday at five, baby. I thought we were I thought we were going to do
an XRP Bitcoin debate, but I think it got done tonight. We should do a real estate Bitcoin debate.
I'll take the real estate side, even though I don't mean it. Ooh, I like real estate, Bitcoin. Okay,
that's a good one, man. That's very good. It's awesome. Yeah. See, that's an easy one. Love it.
Somebody told me the other day. They said, "Hey, why don't you do one on debate the benefits
of having children before the age of forty in this day and age?" I thought that was
an interesting idea, actually. That'd be that'd be a really good debate topic.
Be charged, baby. Grant and I versus Gary and Dark Real Estate versus
Bitcoin. Okay, well, if we don't have anything else to say, what's the price of Bitcoin?
I'm out of here. Two million. Twenty-eight grand right now. Seventeen.
One seventeen three right now. Yeah. Well, we'll be one twenty. What's the high? One twenty-three.
One twenty-two eight. Yeah, we'll we'll test the high this week. I think. Yeah.
It makes sense to me that we test the high again. We bounce here a little bit, I think, right?
I think one sixteen is probably. Do we go lower than one sixteen? Does anybody see that? Yes. Oh,
really, Michael? Is that Michael? Yep. Yeah. Okay. Tell me how bad, baby. One oh eight
or ninety eight. One fifteen two. Okay, give me all everybody. End of the week, July thirty first,
August one. What's the downside? What's the upside? Michael saying it's.
Would you just say one fifteen two. One fifteen two. Okay. Anybody else? One thirteen.
Seen the lows. One thirty. Seen the lows. One thirty-five. Get on the train. No,
this is your downside, bro. We've seen the downside, man. That we just saw it when the
when the Comex opened. We're going straight up from here. Oh, so the one sixteen.
Whatever that number was. One sixteen four. I'm with Art. We've seen the low. Ooh, another one.
Anybody else? All these people that come up to speak and then they don't say a word. Two,
this is going to be a two million dollar coin in in in some years from now because the numbers
speak for themselves. I'm afraid to be bearish on this stage. I think I think we could retest 100.
Well, well, well, that's cool, but but just send me a message when it when it when it happens.
You think we could go down to 100? Who said that? That was me. That was Pat. Should I boot him? See,
that's what I'm saying. He's clearly either not fully deployed, or he's, you know, sold
and doesn't want to be wrong. But I mean, a hundred. He's all in stable coins. Stable coins. Hey,
can I just end the show here? You know what? This would be a good debate. Okay,
and I'm gonna just make a prediction here. Somebody should clip what I'm getting ready to say.
But I will. I find it very, very interesting. On the back of what Max said, one,
the word stable coin. That should just alert everyone. Every time you hear this term, stablecoin,
know this is an operation. We're not in control of shit. This is my view. It will not.
It will not create stability. Look, we know it's a lie because there's nothing about stability
in these coins. Okay, if you said they were linked, I'd be like, okay,
I understand they are linked coins. What are they linked to? They're linked to something else.
If that something else starts to move, Garin, and if it moves violently,
the stable coin will not be there. That peg is no different than any other peg they've been playing
with. So, I'm I'm just going on the record, going, hey, this is going to turn out to be
a train wreck. I think you're hypothecating the shit out of money. I mean,
I don't really understand one thousand percent the mechanics here, but it seems to me
like it's going to be fatal to most people if they don't jump on this train. And however you do it,
I mean, if you can do it through these other coins and mechanisms, awesome.
But I think the timing is going to be very difficult on this one because there's
so many moving pieces. And the cool thing is because I'm in Bitcoin. I don't really care
when or how and which moving piece moves the freaking dominoes first. I think I'm so hedged
that if I don't get carried away, I've really been thinking a lot about. Oh,
I got to be really careful not to get greedy here. And by greedy, I mean looking at other things,
other investments, and getting a little like antsy and frustrated, and like, oh wow,
what's happening there, dude? Somebody just made an 80x on their money. Jesus Christ!
Are you still playing the miners? Oh yeah, I'm still in the miners, dude. Can I make it? Yeah,
I held on. I've held on. This is why this has been a bad investment. But I said I was going to do
an investment in in MSTR, in the miners, in Bitcoin, and I was going to compare them.
But I'm not going to do that before I, you know, have my full tax year done. And and see,
this is the problem with those stocks. I had to play both the cycle and my tax year
for capital gains. I was wrong on the cycle. I was early on the miners. Shame, shame, shame on me.
I could have bought thirty thousand dollar Bitcoin. So anybody tells you the miners,
the Mike Alfrids, all this stuff, dude, it just would have been so much simpler just buying Bitcoin.
I probably left two million dollars of Bitcoin on the table. Now the question is, can I repair that?
You know what? I will actually go through what exactly I did and have done.
That would be a very good exercise for people to see. I think that would be a really good exercise.
Please do that. That would help me too. Please do that. Well, see, now I have to decide. By the way,
when I was doing these miners, it was not clear that my biggest competition,
which I thought we kind of had a moat. Well, we don't have a moat because everybody
and their brother is spending up a strategic Bitcoin reserve. So now the miners are competing with
that money, both in terms of the input money to capital run the business,
but also in the options that people have to invest in the Bitcoin space has just expanded radically.
Some people couldn't get to Bitcoin other than through the public miners, so. See,
this is why Bitcoin is so simple again. Because you know, you know what you know about Bitcoin.
It will be attacked from every angle, everywhere, every time, every, and it will survive.
No matter what happens. But these other things, you and I can't control.
And kudos to whoever whoever got Max up here. Darker Gary, that was that was amazing. Thanks.
Max has found a seat in the pew of humanity in some of these rooms, my friend.
So he's an awesome guy. Quick, quick ADIQ question to everybody: Have you ever thought?
Why aren't there twenty one million people on this planet that each hold one Bitcoin?
If there's eight billion people, all it takes is twenty one million of them to each hold
a Bitcoin each, and to not sell. There's the. See, you know that's it's amazing how some people
think. See, now I feel like I'm a greedy pig because I've never even thought that.
What I've thought is, how the fuck can I buy a thousand of these things?
While while the getting's good, go get it, son. Look, you cannot make other people do things.
You just, you know, my experience is when I see something producing massive amounts of fruit,
my job is to go collect it and collect as much of it as I possibly can,
and not become a preacher for the masses, like like. I may waste my time, my energy,
and my effort when I could be like smashing another fifty thousand dollars worth of Bitcoin.
Just saying, you know what I'm saying? Okay, who else is going out? CK wanted to come up.
He's always a good guy. I'm gonna close it out. I've been painting. I'm gonna do some more painting.
I'll just add my thoughts to that that question. The answer for me, the answer is,
I I came on earlier. I talked to three guys worth probably twenty million. They own zero Bitcoin,
and what it comes down to is homework. How much time have they spent in Bitcoin?
And the answer was none. So you can be worth much less than that. Put Energy into learning about
Bitcoin, get to one Bitcoin, and you are going to outperform these fuckers that are just cocky,
that have just they're they're running their dad's business of clients,
and they're just they they don't put in the time and energy to learn about it.
So that's kind of the answer. So do your homework. I make I I make that point because I feel
like it's heavily manipulated. It just mathematically twenty one million people
versus eight billion. It doesn't even. I can't comprehend that. That's not possible.
That 21 million people don't have one each. Yet the price is where it's at. It just.
It feels extremely manipulated, and that's why I made that comment. So I just want to be clear.
Thank you, guys. Hey, hey, hey! Real quick. So, so some of us had to study solidity back
in the days. So, so we're like in a whole different world of of crypto now. So,
a Cas knows what I'm talking about because he's old school too. But, but you know,
some of us are like. Really fucking smart in the space from studying solidity,
but you know if you ever want to just geek out on something, just like try to write smart contracts
and stuff, and and and and you'll see why stablecoins are bullshit. Because when you try to write
a smart contract, it's it's stablecoins are just so whack. They're they're just not gonna happen.
But um, right on, man. Some of us are, you know, it's man, it's
really cool just to just just to learn that kind of stuff. Just just just to be in the space
like that. But uh, thanks. And can I can I say something? We Bitcoin teaches us a lot of analogies,
you know, FOMO, FUD, proof of work. We're still early, and I think we don't we discredit
or we don't give the value to a lot of those phrases. You know, we're still early, man.
We're we're still early, and one thing I have to say is fate. However, it was blessed us here,
and the and the few other Bitcoiners here to understand this. Way earlier than some
of the smartest people on the face of this planet. I'm the least likely of people on this stage
to understand this. Nobody in my background understands this. I can't go to my families or friends
or my community and talk about this. I've been here since 2015 late, and I had to go through a lot
of trials and tribulations. I had to go through the FOMO. I had to go through the fear.
I had to go through the FUD. And we seem missed the fact that all the new Bitcoiners
are going to have to go through that same thing. That's called proof of work.
They're going to have to go through that same thing. So we're going to have we're going to have ups
and downs. We're going to have the system and the powers that be that still think
they control things, trying to manipulate. But Bitcoin is going to teach them a lesson, just
like it has taught all of us a lesson. In the end, Bitcoin will win out,
but we've still got a lot of levels of transition to go through, man. A lot, you know.
And and and I, the Bitcoin community has blessed me, man. You know, I come out of the streets, man.
I come out, you know, I come from the block, man. I changed my life in in you know in a
in a major way, but my change, and and the things that the proof of work,
the things that I went through for my change. Opened me up to understand Bitcoin when the time came,
and I'm not the rich Bitcoin. I'm putting my twos and fives, twenty, thirties, fifty bucks in.
Been doing it. Been going through the trials and tribulations. Like I said, I went through the FUD.
I did the shit corner thing and all that, and thought, you know, heard all the the news
that this is better and this and that and so forth. But went through all of that,
and now I'm a Bitcoin maxie, pure unadulterated Bitcoin maxie. We got a total line, you know.
You know, I believe this. If our money isn't neutral. You know, I would I say this.
I would defend the right of my enemy, somebody who I can't stand, his money being neutral.
Because if his money isn't neutral, then my money isn't neutral, and that means the beef that
I have with him is insignificant. We have a greater beef. You know, Bitcoin is freedom technology,
man, and that's where we're pushing. And hey, we're still early. You know,
we got a lot of transitions. The the you know the the where us as Bitcoin Maxi's
think Bitcoin will be, our time frame is off. It will reach that, but our time frame is off.
You know, and and and dark. That's all I gotta say, man. Dark. Amen. Doctor Little John. Amen, bro.
Drop in the room. You guys have an awesome, cool, super, super genuine, and genuine Sunday.
Knock them dead, motherfuckers. Knock them dead, Monday through Friday. Right now, dark.
Your lows getting hit right now. What's the low, ad dog? Don't drop me a secret
and then don't tell me what's going on. We're at sixteen nine sixteen nine forty one.
I would be panicking, Mike, if I were you. I would sell everything you have. Oh, good. No, dude,
Gary, you know me. I'm good. Dump it and lump it. I'm good, brother. Tell you what,
there's a lot of people still on the sidelines. I'm telling you, fucking on the sidelines,
and they're groaning, groaning for more. And the guys that did come in, they're sitting there going,
"Motherfucker, I knew I should have tripled my position." Dude, all the guys,
they're all financial advisors. They don't. That's yeah, but they're advisors, dude.
They're fucking. We should have a whole. We no offense, but most of those guys end up broke.
No offense. Yeah, I think the vast majority of retail is going to be drug here, kicking
and screaming. I'm on meetings every day with twenty or thirty different people,
and I have Bitcoin on my background, and you know everyone can see it because I'm sure in my screen
and stuff. And I get zero questions, zero comments. Nobody, nobody even notices it. Hey,
the the Dow Dow told us a hundred years ago, man, that the sheep are the last one to know.
The Dow theory it talks about that, and we're blessed for whatever reason. I am the wolf.
I am the raven, but I am not a sheep. That's right. None of us are. None of us
Bitcoin Maxes are. Go get it, dog. Okay, you guys, hell out. See you later.
