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Do We REALLY Need Women in Crypto? π©βπ¦°π Crypto Quorum Ep. 23 (round two!
Recorded: Sept. 11, 2025 Duration: 2:55:13Space Recording
Full Transcription
So, hey, everyone.
Looks like Nicole got rugged.
So I'm going to just get everything going again.
Please share out this new space if you wouldn't mind
so we get everyone in one moment.
Hey.
Hey.
Sorry about that.
I don't know what's wrong with my computer.
Don't worry.
Yeah, I need to figure that out.
Hey, did you share the new space link yeah yeah okay here we go
everyone was anticipating it to rug so i think everyone's conditioned to join right back up
yeah hopefully
yeah i mean it must be like if it's not a cursed computer it has to be a cursed connection or maybe tend to install malware in your computer that just rugs no it's brand new
i just got this thing you know i know we've talked about this before but i cannot find no rhyme or
reason when it comes to x-space is rugged i've done my phone i've done desktop i cannot discern
a pattern i cannot figure it out whether i'm on airplane mode on my phone, I've done desktop. I cannot discern a pattern. I cannot figure it out.
Whether I'm on airplane mode on my phone, or I follow the browsers or have browsers open,
it just does whatever it does.
Well, continuing on.
Diego to come up and speak. I saw him lurking in the background. I guess he was waiting for the
initial rug to then just come in so
um hi diego why don't i continue and just ask you the usual questions which is who you are what do
you do and then a binary answer do we really need women in crypto yeah hello uh my name is diego
salazar i run cypher stack which is a design development infrastructure research cryptography firm we do everything um i also make stack wallet which is a competitor to edge in some respects but we're both
open source so as far as i'm concerned we're buddies um and uh yeah we need women in crypto
it's like asking the question do we need women to have money cryptocurrency is money so like should women have money yeah
i understand i understand it's like crazy talk i don't why do you need money in the kitchen though
oh just kidding just kidding shots fired is anyone else gonna say no objectively like myself
that's why i did it guys i was really afraid this was going to happen so i'm going to take the contrarian view otherwise we would not
have content i hope everyone remembers that yeah yeah we got you i answered in the binary sense i
mean if you're talking about cryptocurrency as a business which is kind of what a lot of people here
are kind of low-key saying then like yeah it gets you know it gets a bit But, you know, when you think of it as money, like Bitcoin is money,
then, yeah, women should have money.
So, but not just that, like, I think we are talking about women,
you know, female workers in the cryptocurrency industry.
But I don't want to go too far into it because we're still on introductions.
So, yeah, so, Joelle,elle sorry i am not a co-host and i
cannot see everyone who is a speaker and who has introduced why are you done why are you down voting
blue i'm saying we do need women in crypto i i firmly stand with that position as a woman who
works in crypto so yeah joe joelle can can you say who hasn't introduced and let people
know? No? Yeah, let me see. Barbie, have we gotten your intro yet? No, no, no. I'm here. I'm here.
Go for it. Yeah. Thank you so much, guys, for having me up on the panel. I'm really excited about this today. I'm the Bitcoin Barbie, and I work now with a decentralized marketing firm called Clown. I've been in the industry for nearly a decade and have kind of dabbled in many different areas, just filling the holes as the industry evolves. So that's kind of my stance here. And do I think that women
belong in Web3? Absolutely. And just, you know, I'll kind of echo some of the other ladies and
some of the other sentiment. I think everyone is welcome where they are beneficial and where
their skill sets are peak performance so that we can all help each other build the right kind of projects
and use each other's skill sets for the benefit.
Cool.
Yep, yep.
With you on that.
Alex, you finished introducing yourself, I think, right?
Just want to make sure.
I don't remember when everything went to a Kafka-esque nightmare
on the last version.
I loved that.
That was great.
I've never seen that in spaces.
I've done hundreds of spaces.
I've never seen that.
You know what?
It's because I was co-hosting from QuickSwap, and I removed QuickSwap as a co-host to let Xano take their rightful position.
position and uh and then so i like then i was in listener mode on one device and speaker mode on
the other and hosting device from dash on the other side and it just i don't know it just went
disaster went yeah full disaster yeah the delay there is like five seconds so
someone dm'd me and someone dm'd me uh and said they felt like they were on Psychedelics.
We did a space on Psychedelics just a couple of weeks ago, by the way.
That will be, by the way, that will be in a song that will be played on this space.
We'll use that audio.
I'm not kidding.
It's going to be a remix.
Remixed.
I think making songs is our favorite part of this job.
Women are drugs.
So that's probably why.
Yeah.
That is true.
I disagree with that.
The best kind of drugs.
So, okay.
Who's next to intro?
We have Cass, Blue, and Mother Duck.
I think those are the ones that are remaining on this whole thing.
Unless I miss someone.
I think that's it.
By the way, when Cindy and I were first dating, we would say that to each other.
That we were each other's drug.
Oh, it's so lame.
I can't feel my face when I'm with you that's what I think of
the voice
alright Cass let's go
Cass first
Cass Vegas do you want to introduce yourself
say who you are what you do
and do you think that we need
we really need women in crypto?
Hey, round two. What's up, everyone? I'm Cass Vegas. I'm from Hawaii. I'm down here now for
Honolulu Tech Week and my event and outreach out here. I work at Blue Water. I'm the co-founder
with Blue. And yes, I believe women belong everywhere as long as they have merit same with men i believe
men can be working anywhere as long as it's merit based so do we need women in crypto absolutely
just gotta earn your spot stick it out and i believe we belong here you have the coolest name
cas vegas that's like that's celebrity status there. I'm digging your name.
I just got to say.
I didn't choose it.
No hitting on the women on the spaces.
Come on.
Come on.
I'm already telling them they're not needed.
I'm not good at flirting, buddy.
All right?
So anyway, let's get to it.
He's playing hard to get.
All right.
Is Blue next, Joao?
Yes, ma'am hey everybody how are we doing today um i'm blue uh the founder of blue water and blue water is smart contract solutions with beautiful websites that help you be able to use blockchain for everyday life.
And so the answer to the question, does crypto need women? My answer would be without women,
crypto misses the chance to design solutions that work for everyone. Think about all the tech and all the jargon, all the hard, complicated things to just
send something through a transaction and then bringing that to like your grandparents or your
friends or something. I think that women provide those opportunities for people to understand the complex issues.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Is everyone intro'd now?
I didn't go.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, who was the mother of dragons?
Was that obviously the dragon logo?
That's a quick swap.
I'm speaking from the quick swap handle.
I'm in the audience.
I'm nerd girl 007.
Nice.
Yeah, I am the mother of dragons.
Well, we are both M.O.D.'s then.
I'm mother of ducks and you're mother of dragons.
I just wanted to say that.
Nice.
Love it.
Also, the reason why a room like that would freak out is because of the amount of frequency coming from all the women joining the space.
I mean, it couldn't be handled.
So we had a reset.
Now we're here.
We're aligned.
We're good.
Excuse my background.
I live in New York City.
So you can hear that.
They don't believe women should be in crypto.
Absolutely not.
Just as the world tried to down women.
But anyways, we're going to stay on track
here. My name is Mother Duck. I am the founder of Ugly Duck Society. That's a Web3 initiative
backed by real world assets and also a serial entrepreneur in real life, meaning that I just
love to start up new businesses and possibly finish them off or maybe never. But yes, I do believe that women belong in crypto.
Crypto is money.
It's just the frequency of money and it's a creation, you know.
So women are creators and we belong here.
I have a, of course, I have an explanation,
but I want us to, you know, get into it,
get into the moods, into the vibes,
and then we can go around and get into the depths of it, right?
Thanks so much for having me up here, though. Yeah, no worries. And thanks very much for being here. the moods and to the vibes and then we can go around and get into the depths of it right thanks
so much for having me up here though yeah no worries and thanks very much for being here
um this is obviously gonna be a fun space a fun discussion uh i will probably have to leave in a
little bit so probably what i'm gonna like a half hour or so so what i'll probably do is just sort
of leave the thing running and then all the co-hosts can then make sure everyone gets up and down and then we'll just see how long it goes.
And yeah, but because everyone seems to sort of be on the same page of, you know, oh, absolutely.
When you're needed in crypto and kind of things.
needed in crypto and kind of things and that's something that i tend to personally agree with
And that's something that I tend to personally agree with.
and it's kind of interesting that um dash was one of the the projects the first projects to have
like a major female face i don't know if anyone remembers back in the 2016 17 amanda amanda was
kind of like it was kind of dash's first claim to fame was having a well-spoken female spokesperson who actually knew her stuff.
And back when it was like, oh my gosh, there's actually women in crypto.
This is crazy.
Back when it wasn't really done.
And so all that being said, it sounds like we have one big love fest of agreeing with each other and patting each other on the back ahead of us.
So I'm going to take a contrarian angle to start out with. I'm going to have a little friction.
Good. Yeah, we were hoping to have some balance.
Yes, and then we can get RuneBond to jump after that, I'm sure.
Yeah, yeah.
And then we can get Rock, I'm sure, wants to do that. Alex, did you have a comment before I launch
into that? Well, I mean, there's nuance in here and we can all agree that women belong in crypto, but the truth is that women are clustered in certain places and they're kind of
kept in certain areas. And even though we can say, yay, it's great that they're in there,
we don't see women, for example, in a lot of the dev teams, we see them mostly like on
HR teams, we see them in marketing, but we don't see a ton of them, you know, doing the financial
end, we don't see a ton of people doing any of the, we don't see them as influencers as much,
right? We don't see, we always see like the paid influencers
being men, right? And we see the people who are, who are coming up as like in the financial end,
who are doing the financial analysis for a lot of the crypto projects that are being done,
generally are men too. So for like what I think of as the soft end tends to still be,
you know, that's women. Women are allowed, but still in certain areas. They're still restricted
in a lot of ways in crypto. So if we want women in, do we want women, but only in certain places?
We want them to do the marketing stuff we want them
maybe in our art areas and in nfts and things like that but we don't want them in like the hard
finance areas we don't want them to be paid promoters we don't want them you know we don't
want them talking about the financial analysis of whether or not these projects are going to work
we don't want them doing our trading i never never see women doing those things. Why is that? You know, so yeah, sorry, Alex,
I didn't want to interrupt you. Please go ahead. No, it's just that, I mean, we can always say,
yeah, sure, women, but like what we're talking about is paid women. I mean, everybody can love women's money, but do we really love like having
actual, you know, do you love having women enough that you want them to have a say in the project?
Are they running projects? How many projects do you see that are run by women that are, you know, like predominantly women that a bunch of men listening to women and paying women in the
positions that men are paying men, you know, for all of their, you know, their like thought-based
things too, right? Like the financial stuff as well. Anyway, those are just my thoughts,
is that there's nuance here. Like everybody, we can all say, yay, we all want women in here.
But do you really, do you want them in the same positions that you want
men? Because it's really hard to get into those same positions that men are in, right? I mean,
I see complete doofuses in, in like heads of that are heads of like, you know, some of these chains
and in doing some of the legal work on these chains and they're they're total idiots but you know they're they're guys so they get a lot more leeway uh but some of them are like
really bad let me be clear i'm not pro man either i think that most dudes suck too so
yeah i'm not i'm not saying that like all dudes suck. I'm just saying that, you know, there's definite bias in here still.
Yeah, Alex, I fully agree with that position. But there are women in finance roles, right? Like yourself. I can think, you know, Hester Peirce, you know, she's a great example. Caitlin Long, you know, in government, you know,
from government positions. I think those women are, you and you are highly respected. I think
on the influencer angle or the KOL angle, it's difficult to say there should be more female
KOLs because the market clearly doesn't want that. Diego, you've got your hand up.
because the market clearly doesn't want that.
Diego, you've got your hand up.
Yeah, as I mentioned before,
I run a kind of guns for hire firm, CypherStack,
and we do work for tons and tons of people
as well as put out our own product, StackWallet.
A few years ago, I had three women developers.
I currently don't.
I didn't fire them they actually all left better
positions and uh and never rehired anybody so my team's pretty small um if you're a developer
and you're a man or woman and potentially looking for a job let me know um but like as a person who
has hired women in like developer roles uh stack wallet was designed by myself and my wife
we are both the ui ux designers and she was actually the primary
designer of stack wallet um so as a person like uh and and it wasn't even like the kind of hires
that like well you know we don't have enough women on the team kind of thing because again right now
i don't i don't have any uh women developers but it was just kind of you know when somebody showed
you know, when somebody showed up and it's like, they had the scale, I'm like, yeah, all right,
up and like they had the skill i'm like yeah all right you're here you know it doesn't matter um
you're here. You know, it doesn't matter. I don't think the meritocracy thing is 100% true,
because you have men kind of going all over the place. Okay, if everything was just 100%
meritocratic, everyone would be hiding behind pseudonyms, and their work would speak for
itself. And that's all it would be, right right nobody would know if anybody was any kind of person man woman whatever um but that's not the case you have men showing their
faces and i don't know if you know masculine usernames or whatever feminine usernames or
whatever but the fact that you know the men show themselves like but then when women show themselves
people are like oh but you're just you know you're just showing yourself so you can kind of, you know, gain your audience. And it's like, well, okay, first of all, it's kind
of the sad, simpy dudes' fault that if a woman does show herself, she gains an audience, like,
have a bit more self-respect and not follow every woman that you've ever seen, I guess. But secondly,
like, they have just as much of a right to the public realms as the guys do. So, I mean, who
cares? I err definitely towards meritocracy. So in that sense,
like the ideal world, indeed, nobody cares if you're a man or a woman, if you show your face,
but the more ideal world is nobody knows who anybody is. So that way you could just,
nobody can, everyone can work in peace. I don't know. This is a, this is a not a complicated
question in the sense that like, no, yeah, sure. We want women.
But it is a bit of a complicated question because I don't know,
all the people that have sent me requests to or CVs or anything like that to join
Cypherstack or help with Stack Wallet, a large portion is men.
And I don't, you know, I'm not asking.
How do I say this? Women apply more places.
You're not doing DEI hires, right? You're not doing DEI hires. You're just hiring people.
Yeah. Yeah. But like, I just don't get a whole bunch of women sending in their CVs. So like,
what am I supposed to do? I'm a busy guy. I'm not trying to go out here like, okay,
trying to track down all these girls and ask them, Hey, why are you not sending your CV to me? Like, I put out stuff and I say, hey, I'm looking for
somebody and I get some stuff and like, eight of eight CVs, eight are dudes. What am I supposed to
do? So in some sense, like, yeah, I, the previous commenter, like, absolutely, you know, women need
to be in more places than just finance or whatever, but go get yours. It's not my job
as a guy to go get you yours as a woman. Go get yours and do it unapologetically like the dudes
do, and you'll get in more places. I know it's not that easy. I know this is to any woman rolling
her eyes like, no, no, no, it's nowhere near that easy. We get passed over all the time. I understand.
I understand it's not that easy, but there's a first step there. And that first step is as a
person who has that lived experience of running a business, I don't see a lot of women's CVs.
And I don't know what to do about that. Yeah, no, for sure. There are fewer women than there
are men. And I agree with you on that as well. I don't think that women should
just be hired to positions because they're women. I think they should be hired when their skill set
matches what's needed for the job. Yeah. Who else? Who else has comments here?
Well, let me hit my contrarian take. Yeah, yeah. The actual intelligent takes in here. Well, let me hit my contrarian take. Yeah, the actual intelligent takes in here.
And obviously, you know, the disclaimer is that it's a devil's advocate kind of a thing.
So to date, especially in the early days, there's been a pretty much overwhelming, I guess,
male majority of crypto users, developers, etc, etc etc all that kind of stuff so my devil's
advocate take is a a permissionless decentralized blockchain in the world and that doesn't really
care as long as there are users as long as there's people building it it doesn't really care what
those people look like and if crypto has gotten this far with one demographic, whatever demographic that might be, then it's
going, clearly it doesn't need any adjustment in demographics.
So that's kind of like the purely, I think obviously from a healthy societal standpoint,
to extract the most benefit for the most people,
everyone should be involved, obviously.
But just from a bare bones need,
do we need anything?
Do we need the elderly in crypto?
Do we need young children?
Do we need any of that?
Technically, no.
It will work no matter,
as long as you have people and users and usage and fee-paying users on the network,
developers making code
all that you don't technically need anyone so that's my that's my contrarian devil's advocate
contribution to the thing alex had her hand up and so did barbie barbie was definitely first
okay barbie you still up yeah i'm here thanks Alex. So a few things. I think it's really interesting,
right? Because I feel like, again, you know, I've been here for a while in this space. And,
you know, when I first started going to meetups and talking to people, it was like a one to 50
ratio. And now, you know, the ratio is definitely closer to like when I go to like conferences and stuff, it's like a lot closer to maybe one to 20, maybe even one to 10.
So, I mean, women are definitely here, whether anybody says they should be or not.
But I think that it's very interesting because the discussion of coders or developers was brought up.
And, you know, I was fortunate enough recently,
I'm working in the ICP space currently. So I was fortunate enough to be given a caffeine AI code.
And caffeine AI basically allows me to just like, you know, vibe code anything. And this isn't
the first thing that's happening in terms of vibe coding. And so I see lot more women coming in in terms of coding especially with the ease of coding and
I'm not saying that it's just women coming in but I'm seeing a lot more
female devs but I also see those female devs not necessarily applying for
different companies because a lot of those female devs are starting their own
companies and I and I do see quite actually, a lot more support for women than some of the men.
Like when I go into space and I talk about some of the projects that I'm working on,
I get the room and I get the attention. And is it because I'm a woman? Maybe. Maybe it's just
that soft little bit of femininity coming into the space that is kind of craved at some points, especially in such like,
in a male-dominated space, essentially, right? Like it is what it is. And most business spaces like tech are male-dominated. But, you know, I kind of digress. Yes, we're needed, obviously,
and we're needed because we are part of a population that is going to be contributing to and or using
these products that we're creating 100 barbie okay then we're gonna go alex and then blue
um there's cash is before me actually and then me but thanks okay thank you thank you alex yeah
no i appreciate that um yeah i wanted to shout out like Iris Nevins. She's not
only a founder, but a dev. But I think it's also really important and shout out blue, because
she's a founder as well. It's really important that if we kind of don't really see a lot of
roles, and we think we're too stuck into a box, when you take charge and have the ability to start something yourself,
I was part of an all-women's team on one of my projects. The founders, women, devs, women,
and we intentionally hired women for the entire process of the team. But you can only do that if
you're leading a team. And that's why I think like, you know, opportunity, you can wait for opportunity to knock or you can create the opportunity, but also not erasing the fact that a lot of times we do knock and get denied. Sometimes it's based on skills. Sometimes it's based on, you know, being brown, being black, being a woman, being trans. You know, there's a lot of biases not only in this space but just in general so
yeah I just wanted to point out sometimes there's there's more things that meet the eye
but maybe not all the time it's shown or represented I think I had another point as well but
maybe maybe I'll circle back to that. But there's definitely women present.
I just think if we're in a bit more of a control space, then you can kind of build outward from there.
Oh, and I do remember my second point.
If you're putting out CVs or job hires and saying, why are there no women?
and saying, why are there no women?
You might want to think about company culture.
because if you don't have something that's attractive
for someone to work or is in a good space,
that's another reason.
It doesn't always have to be merit-based, right?
Some people can say,
I don't actually want to work in that space
or when I was on the team, there was discrimination.
So think about company culture
when you're wondering why women aren't being attracted
to how you're hiring.
And then lastly, gatekeeping.
You know, that's neither male or female.
Sometimes it could be both.
Sometimes it's women at the top that are gatekeeping and they want to be the only woman on the
team and they're not, you know, recruiting more.
So just being conscious of gatekeeping, male or female,
and being conscious of hiring. And same when you get into a role of power,
be conscious of hiring. That's what I wanted to add.
Yeah, that's awesome. So there's so many people with their hands up right now. And I want to skip
the order just a tiny bit by because Edge has has their hand up and as a, you know,
as a company, as a company that hires. Yeah. Can you speak?
Awesome. Yeah. So really interesting actually, because before working at Edge,
I was at a company that was probably over 90% women. So moving to work in the crypto space
that was predominantly male was super interesting for me.
But for sure, women are necessary in the space and they're coming whether men like it or not.
I had a really interesting insight actually that I went to dig for.
And last quarter for Edge on our X platform, our female audience increased 180% within the quarter.
And so that just shows that, I mean, it could be that,
you know, there's more women presence at edge now, but also just women in the crypto space in general.
So we're coming and we're powerful. So yeah. I also did have to say that I'm bummed. I have a
meeting that I have to run to, so I will have to hop off, but I wanted to at least pop in because
this has been such a great space and I love hearing everybody's feedback.
But thank you so much for having me.
Thanks for being here.
All right.
I don't know what the order is.
I think it's blue.
No, I'm next.
Oh, you are.
Okay.
Finally me.
All right.
Thank you so much.
So the one thing I wanted to add was I really loved like what other people have been saying in Cass' position about like gatekeeping and stuff like that. That is absolutely what I see a lot. And I have to say for sure that, um, women have, are often, honestly, like maybe it's being the only woman
or there's a fear of being usurped. It's especially seems to be true of like boomer women
or maybe like older Gen X women. I'm not sure what it is, but there seems to be this,
there's something about that or that competitiveness that seems to be
really difficult.
So in your culture, there is something like make sure that that's not happening.
But gatekeeping is something that many men don't necessarily pay attention to
because it's not something that they necessarily think about
because it's not something that they necessarily experience.
They're like, just throw your resume in.
It'll be considered with everyone else. And, you know, if you've got one female resume and
eight male resumes, you're probably still going to end up, you know, with male. So throwing your
resume in usually isn't necessarily enough to be considered, even though you think, well, you know,
I'm just considering it, the odds weren't in your favor.
It's, you have to consider also your pipeline, right? Most jobs aren't actually gotten like through job boards and stuff like that. They're gotten through, through recommendations and
through circles of friends and friends of friends. Actually, friends of friends is the number one way.
of friends. Actually, friends of friends is the number one way. Who are you telling that you have
positions open? You need to make sure that the people that you're telling are people that are
talking to people that are not just more of the same. One of the biggest things about companies,
and there's a lot of research on this, is that you want to actually have people who have common values but diverse backgrounds, whatever that means.
Like in every possible way that you have diverse backgrounds, because that will help you in your problem solving.
And that means not just gender diversity, but you want like financial diversity and you want to have, you know,
like socioeconomic diversity and geographic diversity.
You want to have all sorts of different diversity and background because when problems come
up, you want to have a bunch of people that don't approach a problem in the exact same
way.
But people value comfort.
And so what ends up happening is companies are built with people who are most like them, like people who all been to school together, people who are best friends. And the problem is when problems happen, you all approach a problem the same way.
up that you guys can't solve, it's really hard to figure out why or how or what to do to pivot
when someone else from a different background will say, hey, I know how to solve this because
my background sees it in a completely different way and I have another solution. You want as many
solutions as possible. So it's actually much more beneficial to bring in these people who are as
different from you as possible as long as you have the same values,
right? You have to see things the same way. If you like shortcuts, they have to like shortcuts.
If you don't like shortcuts, they can't like shortcuts. Otherwise, you're not going to grow
happily together, right? If you believe in, you know, if you have one mission and their mission
is different, or, you know, if they're your your C staff and and you believe that an early exit is, you know, the first exit opportunity you have is best.
And they're like, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to grow this thing and we're going to run it as long as possible.
Then you're going to eventually have a lot of friction. So you have to have a lot of conversations.
But but generally speaking, diversity grows the best, hardiest companies.
Who's next? It's not me. It's either Blue or Mother. Okay. Okay. I can go. Yeah. Go ahead, Blue. Go ahead, Blue.
Thanks.
I would probably say that statistically, let's just look at numbers and join the conversation. I hope that we can also kind of dive into some accomplishments accomplishments and like some I don't know without just being so
general like we can kind of really deep dive but far as the devs that are in our space overall
just in crypto it's about 30% overall in the workforce that are women. And then that dwindles
down to about 5% to 10% that are devs. And that collection of 5% to 10% has literally helped
or built most of the successful companies that we know about. so Binance, there's a lot Tezos.
I can literally keep going and listing things.
But there are women devs that were behind those projects and made sure that those things came about.
came about. There's a lot of problems that happened with smart contracts before vibe coding,
before a lot of AI was accessible, and those problems were solved by women. So just putting
that information out there and letting everybody know. As far as a founder and going in front of investors, literally having a solution that provides you royalties on chain, on ETH, trustlessly.
And then for you to see a project, several projects, I'll give an example.
I think there was a project called Dick Hits or something,
I promise you. They got funded probably about $50 million. Just seeing all these ridiculous
projects being funded and as a woman founder, seeing you being told that you're too early for
the space or, oh my goodness, this could set down
so many people or so many companies and things of that nature. It's just very interesting.
But the thought process is there's not a lot of women that can code. There's not a lot of women
that understand what a smart contract is or what blockchain is or understand that cryptocurrency
is going to be the thing that takes over the world. And I think that
is going to be led by women and men. And I think that it's going to come down to, now it's going
to start coming down to who really has the talent and who's a copy pasta and just trying to figure
out who has like the actual plate with real food versus like some
McDonald's or something ordered. So I think it's going to come down to who can actually produce
and who can read through all the code when it messes up and how do you outline and say, hey,
this is where the AI messed up because we still need humans to fix those errors too.
So, yep.
All right.
So is Mother next?
Yes.
Yes.
All right.
Hey.
All right.
I'm excited.
I first want to say that I can appreciate everybody's factual opinions on this matter.
Give me one moment. I'm going to separate myself into a different room. I got some noise going on in my back. All right. So yeah, I could appreciate
everybody's factual opinion on this matter. That's really important that we're going based
off of facts, but it's still opinion. And so I just want to first touch on, I do judgment recovery, right? It's been 15 years now that I've been doing that. But when, a percentage of the contingency bases needed to be
lowered or like charging a certain consultation slash plus extra service fee that could be openly
provided to the public since we're already doing that within the business. You know, so it's like
just having a different eye for numbers than the male mind has it. And I think it has something to do with that
here in crypto as well. Like if we want Web3 to grow, we need all kinds of voices. Yes. But the
women brings a different idea. It's like a more fresh idea. Not I'm saying that men aren't fresh,
but just from the women's perspective of how we're created, you know, it's a fresh idea. We help
build safer spaces, which I think is
really important here in crypto, although it's virtual. And maybe in the beginning,
it wasn't much interaction, human interaction. Now it is becoming that. So we need safer spaces
and then to make sure that the products can work for everyone and not just like a small group of people.
The best part about it, though, right, is that crypto is giving women the ability to invest early, build wealth and shape the future of money. Because money, for me, in my opinion, or whether it's facts or not, money is a frequency of creation.
And that's what women are.
We're creators.
Like, we helped build leaders in the world.
We helped build nations.
Like, we raised leaders.
We drive culture.
So, of course, that's something that we have to be in tune with.
Where the money goes is where the women are going to go, I think is the safest way to
say that. But if we really want to see this space change the world, women can't be in the conversation of it.
We have to be leading it.
And that's my opinion on why women need to be here, why we should be here, and we have to be here.
I mean, I think that women help see things from a different perspective, too, right? Like, that's something that I've noticed in the jobs that I have is that, you know, I work with all men in all three of the jobs. And I know, and they've told me multiple times, right, that, like, it really is a difference in how we see the world that's beneficial to have
on teams. Um, so, yeah. So, okay. We've got RuneBond and then Diego.
All right. Well, let's spice this up a little bit. Um, very good perspectives by all the
speakers. I appreciated that. And I listened to everybody here. So guys, um, let's talk about the
topic of the
space, right? Because I'm coming at this from a very literal minded point of view. It's do we
really need women in crypto, which is kind of like an absolute statement, right? So if I were
to change it and say, do we want women in crypto? Oh my God. Yes. Yes. Do women make crypto better? Of course, particularly for the fact that Nicole brought up about women having a different perspective.
This is 100 percent true. Men and women complement each other very well because we have essentially a bit of a different toolkit.
And when we combine our strongest elements, we actually complement each other extraordinarily well.
elements, we actually complement each other extraordinarily well. For example, I mean,
I've done Joelle's show a few times. Do not doubt it for a second that if I could wave a magic wand
and I could turn Joelle into Jocelyn, I would do it. Or if I could turn Rock into Roxanne,
oh my gosh, I would do it because we need more women in this space. You think I get along
talking with a bunch of sausages? No, no, I want women. Okay.
But let's do a little intellectual exercise here. I want to switch up a little bit. So I was a nurse.
Okay. That was one of my previous professions. I did it for quite a long time. Nursing is
primarily female dominated, right? I think most people understand that. Let's switch the topic and say, do we really
need men in nursing? Now, if I made the argument from your shoes and said, well, of course we need
men in nursing. I need to help these girls, right? Doesn't that intuitively sound a little sexist,
even though it's the exact argument that we're making here? Isn't that weird how that works,
right? No, the answer to that question is no. Women do not need men in nursing. Now, I think it's good, right? We have a different toolkit,
like we said, but in the absolutist case, do we need men in nursing? No. So let's talk about
Alex's point. Alex said something really interesting is 100% true. She said that a lot
of women can be gatekeepers as well towards other women.
And Alex, especially being so long in a profession where I worked with a lot of women, majority women,
this is my experience as well. Women, generally speaking, again, anecdotal, are very, very,
very competitive with other women and stab them in the back. There can be a lot of drama. It can be very
hostile work environment sometimes. Of course, this is not necessarily typical of the case,
or you should expect that. But that is, in my experience, working with a lot of girls. And so
the thing we have to think of is like, why is there a discrepancy between, let's say,
in crypto that's primarily male-dominated or nurse practitioner, which is female, or child care, which is female?
And there's other ones as to HR as female, right?
Like, why is these differences here?
Is it because women are gatekeeping men, like myself, out of nurse-practitioning,
or is it because there are just slight differences between men and women
that lead the sexes to naturally gravitate towards various careers and interests, right?
Because every woman up here, let's be real, ladies, just thinking, talking about yourself,
you are the exception, right? You are exceptional because you are part of something that is heavily male dominated, right? You are
atypical in that way. And that's great, right? But I would be really careful to caution that
if women are not present in one career or the other, that it's necessarily to do with gatekeeping.
Of course, that can happen. Of course. But it's just important to realize that I think in my mind,
a lot of the things that make that if you look at society at large, the differences is just because men and women are a little different.
And I think that's OK. I will stop there.
Yeah, there are no men gatekeeping nursing.
And yes, we really need men in nursing to help your point.
to help your point. We really do. I, yeah, I'm actually a retired ARNP and I went all the way
We really do.
up from CNA, LPN, RN, ARNP. And yeah, the male nurses are definitely needed because we can't
reach things that are super high sometimes. And also like I did hospice and so I wasn't above
lifting my patients or turning my patients or taking care of them.
And I'm not a very heavy person. So, you know, the males came in super, super handy.
I don't think that they're, you know, we don't need to put careers as gender roles ever.
No, of course not. That's not the point I was making was and like I told you, each gender has strengths.
Right. And I guess men literally, it's strength.
And that can be very useful in many circumstances.
The question is, are they super needed?
If you had a group of nurses and they were in an emergency environment, would a man maybe
help in that circumstance and make things better?
Of course, probably.
It depends on circumstances.
But it's an absolute statement.
Go ahead, Alex.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
I think I have a lag.
I'm so sorry about that.
It's okay.
This is, and I see Diego, so sorry, I know I'm interrupting in your time too, but this
is this sociological argument of are women naturally drawn towards caretaking professions by genetics, right?
Or are they drawn to it by sociologic effort, right?
Is it nature or nurture that draws women towards the lower paying caretaking and teaching professions?
And of course, that's society. That's our economy
and our society that deems caretaking lower value, right? That puts lower, that gives a lower
economic return on the professions that are naturally deemed, quote unquote, more female,
right? Now, that's what we've said is that women tend to be more
drawn towards those. And those are the ones that are lower paying because society says things that
women do are lower value. You know, women started off as editors of film because there was sewing
involved. You had to sew film together
and that was deemed women's work.
Now, women were very, very good at it
and you know that the Star Wars films, right?
George Lucas was married to his editor.
Film editing was done incredibly well by women
but as film editing became more and more important,
men took it over
and it became more financially successful, right?
So as men take over the profession, then the pay increases, right? So things that are predominantly
female, first of all, the pay is suppressed actively. We can track careers, including
computer operator, computer programmer, coder, things like that, when they were predominantly female, because they were deemed more secretarial.
And anyway, all of this being said, and then for men, they because they are naturally more executive in
nature, which running a household is very executive, by the way, they are penalized,
right? So if you have, for example, executive tendencies, which you have to to run a business
or to run for office, you have a deeper voice, you have a taller stature, you have
a more definitive way of speaking rather than a tentative way of speaking,
then you are penalized. And why, especially by women, which is interesting because women keep
social order, the reason you get penalized is because people say, I don't like her for some
reason. This happened to Hillary Clinton, this happened to Carly Fiorina. This happens to all sorts of people who run for office because you exhibit executive tendencies, right? And those
executive tendencies are deemed masculine. This happens in business too. We just don't notice it
because it's in the private forum and people aren't talking about it. When women try to exhibit more executive
function, they're penalized for it rather than lauded for it. So all of this, go get yours,
men do it, that actually results in harm to women's career rather than benefit.
Men who try to exhibit caretaking generally are penalized, too, with lower pay.
They're also, the more feminine they act, right, the more caretaking they act, the more
emotional they act, they are generally penalized in their careers.
So this is actually something that is actively enforced by society.
Women are not genetically drawn one way or the other. Men Women are not genetically drawn one way or the
other. Men are not necessarily genetically drawn one way or the other. But if you try to do something
outside your gender, because you are naturally that way, you are penalized socioeconomically,
and it is enforced by whatever structure you're in. So when people say,
go out and go do this the way men do it, or go out and do this, like go and go and try and get
a job this way, or go and try and get a position that way, you can't. You will be penalized for
doing that. The only people who aren't are people who are actively backed
by very powerful men. That is what happens because by yourself, you are penalized because
you are acting outside your gender and also because you are different. It doesn't work that way.
So just be cognizant of this. This is not a genetic thing. This is a very,
very strong patriarchal economic and sociological tendency. And as much as people are like,
you hate men and you argue about patriarchy, it's just a fact. It's not something that I'm
arguing. It's something that I'm just expressing because that's what exists right now. To try and say anything different is just denial. That's just what exists right now.
You cannot speak from authority like that, right? Like I couldn't, if I didn't need the same
argument for you and said, if you said something, then you're just denying reality, right? Because
I have a follow-up question, Alex. I have something really quick. So I just want to make sure if,
you know, since it's all socioeconomic,
it's societal, it's patriarchal in an ideal world, every position profession would have 50, 50,
right? That's, that's your view. No, no, it could have whatever it wants. It's just that the,
but naturally it would graduate graduate because there are gravitate. I'm sorry,
to 50, 50, because there's no, there's no preference, right? It's all just whoever wants to do it.
No, the pay, no, no, no.
It doesn't matter what gender goes where.
It's that if you act outside of your gender, if you're a female in a caretaking profession,
first of all, caretaking professions are paid equally the way executive professions are,
right?
So traditionally male and traditionally female professions are both professions are, right? So traditionally male and traditionally
female professions are both rewarded equally, right? Because caretaking professions are just
as valuable to society as executive professions. The second thing is if you act outside your gender,
you are not penalized. That is what fairness is, right? It's not about having 50-50 in any profession. I don't care how many people are nurses and how many people are executives. I don't care if it's all one gender or another. It's that you're not penalized if you go a different way and that you're not financially suppressed because you're in a profession that suits your gender. Everybody's saying act your
gender. And then they're saying now you get paid less because of it. And you can't act a different
way because now they're saying, no, no, no, you're acting differently. We don't like that.
You have to either be supported by a man, which means you better be a, you know, a hot, white, big boobed, you know, blonde girl that that's married to someone rich or at least, you know, like sleeping with someone evil people. That's just sometimes it seems like there's just not an it's very frustrating.
There's not a ramp to success.
So that's that's the problem is that when you're trying to be recognized, it's so sickening
sometimes like I get my work is, uh, is stolen often, right? I see other
people take my work and, uh, and express it as theirs and they're more popular than I am. And
people attribute my work to them. And I'm like, do you know how hard it is for me to think of this
stuff? And then you just steal it and then you call it yours. And that's just the way it is.
Like, it's like some of my stuff was in a presidential document. And I was like, are you kidding me here? But this is the kind of stuff
that happens. And it's, it's what it is, what happens when it's hard to gain access to power
when you didn't start there, right? And you don't have someone who is letting you in a door. So I try to let
people in doors where I can, but I still don't have access higher up. And I'm barred from it.
And I see why and how, and it is super frustrating to me. And the thing is that I see many men
And the thing is that I see many men and even women in power who don't see that there's even a bar there. And that is extremely powerfully frustrating. It exists in crypto as well. In people trying to get into projects, trying to get, like a lot of crypto operates on inside knowledge and pretending that it doesn't operate on inside knowledge is not understanding how crypto operates.
So trying to get into like great projects, great deals, great partnerships, you have to know the right people and have them bring you in.
and have them bring you in.
If they don't bring you in,
then you can't really get into the great deals
that are going on in crypto.
So having women in crypto
being like retail investors is one thing,
but that's not really bringing women into crypto.
We need to bring them into the partnerships.
We need to bring them into like the big brands. We need to bring them into the partnerships. We need to bring them into like the big brands.
We need to bring them into these big deals that are, you know, happening in crypto.
We need to bring them into the big chains.
We need to do that.
It's not happening.
And I want it to happen.
And that's what we're really missing is that every time I go into any deal of any size,
it's still a bunch of men on one side.
And it's like you couldn't find any women to bring into your team on this. You couldn't find
anybody, you know, you couldn't find any, it's a bunch of white men more than anything else,
really. So it's like, you can't, you can't find anyone else on your team that you could bring in
that you could like, you know, to establish this, well, this is the
guys that I know. And this is, you know, the team that we're building. And the thing is like, you
know, if you want to do a deal with like visa or something like that, that's led by, you know,
a bunch of women. So, you know, like, like, I don't know, I just what I would like to see is just can we can we broaden the view of who's coming into teams who's coming
into deals who who we're letting speak who we're letting gain benefit on these things
everybody who's like made a huge amount of money it never seems to be women who are making a huge amount of money. It never seems to be women who are making a huge amount of money on
these deals. It's always, you know, a bunch of guys. And I just don't want to see that. I don't
want women to just be like, you know, on the floor trading, you know, and trying to catch little
crumbs of crypto. The real money, the real action that's happening on this is still gatekept.
And that is not where women need to be.
Can we at least open this part up?
Yeah, Alex, absolutely.
So speaking of who we're letting speak, Diego has had his hand up for so long and has not gotten to speak yet.
So, Diego, I want to make sure that you get the opportunity yeah yeah no worries uh so it's it's fascinating just listening to everybody so it's
not like no skin off my nose but uh i i'm definitely like way too small time for you guys
like when i talk about my development team i have two developers right uh i have three cryptographers um and we're we're
teeny tiny i've got less than like 10 11 people uh and you guys are you know talking about teams
and you know all this different kind of stuff so um i'm a bit i'm a bit too small time to
comment on a lot of this stuff and you know i make enough money for my family and for to pay
all my people so i don't really have bigger aspirations to go bigger.
So in some sense, I don't know, in some sense I can't speak to a lot of this and I'm happy
to just listen and learn, but I do want to take this in a slightly tangential direct,
well, you know, before I do that, before I do that, I actually want to back up what
Alex said a little bit, um, where she says, you know, you're, you're penalized if you're
acting outside your gender.
That was you Alex, right?
Um, sometimes the stupid, uh stupid Twitter thing shows somebody speaking who was not speaking.
So I'm hoping it is. Okay. If it is, great. If it's not, then, you know, you just spoke.
It was me.
Okay, great. As an example, I work from home and I have a daughter who's three and I do about 50%
of the childcare. And because I work from home, like that's not 50% when I'm home daughter who's three and I do about 50% of the childcare. And I'm, because I work
from home, like that's not 50% when I'm home. That's like total, you know, I enjoy it. It's
fun. I like hanging out with her. She's an awesome person. And, uh, uh, you know, that's typically
not a male role. And, uh, I'm not particularly penalized for it, but I also realized that's
coming from a position of a guy. Like, you know, you said that I had the power to begin with, right? So like, first of all, I couldn't care less. I could not
care less about other people's opinions about me or what I do or how I do my work or whatever.
Even all you people here, sorry to say, you know, like I couldn't care less. Happy to learn,
you know, and potentially do my self-reflection and things myself. But when it comes to people ostracizing me
for the way I handle my family or caretaking or whatever,
like couldn't care less about your opinions.
But I realized that's not necessarily the same for women
where you try to act in a more masculine way
and you're penalized for it.
And you can't just kind of shrug your shoulders and go,
well, I couldn't care less
because there are more active deterrents,
not just passive ones, but potentially active ones, keeping you from something as a way,
as a result of what you're acting. And, you know, I am, I'm a fairly conservative guy. Like,
I'm just, you know, throwing this out there, all cards on the table, like on a lot of different
areas. So I'm not, for any one of you in the audience, like, oh, you know, Diego's, you know,
white knight, you know, woke kind of mind virus kind of thing.
Like, I really don't subscribe to a lot of that stuff.
I just kind of have functioning eyeballs and a brain to see stuff that's happening around me.
It's not that, you know, it's not that difficult.
But there's another reason I don't like 100 percent gel with this conversation.
And that's because I don't really think
that we should get more women
in cryptocurrency C-suite positions,
but that's not because of anything women.
I don't think we should get more men
into like crypto C-suite positions.
And that's because I'm a cypherpunk, man.
Like I'm Bitcoin, Monero and like, you know, Dash
and people who are trying to be money and do money.
Like that's what I'm here for.
I'm here to help do my part to try to free the world from the clutches of the monopoly
that governments have on money issuance and printing.
That's like Bitcoin's whole deal.
Crypto Web3.
I know a lot of you said you work in Web3, so I hope this doesn't wound too much.
But like, I think it's all kind of a
waste of time. Blockchain is really not that good at a lot of things. And the thing that it is good
for is being uncensorable and allowing people to be able to distribute issue and move money around
without governments being able to stop them from doing it. So like when we're talking about, you
know, we need more women like, you know, being higher up on the C-suites and, you know,
doing all these projects,
these cryptocurrency blockchain projects.
I'm like, no, I don't want them in there either.
Like, let's stop grifting.
Let's start working on Bitcoin and Monero
and doing privacy stuff.
So yeah, that's kind of,
that's for the audience to see like where I'm coming from.
I don't gel with a
lot of this stuff and that's fine you know not everybody has to agree with me that's my opinion
again i couldn't care less if you don't agree with me go do your thing live your life be happy
um but that's kind of where my focus is so like i'm going to speak from my perspective as a
cypherpunk who really is into crypto for these reasons couldn't care less about getting rich
um money's nice, but I put my
money where my mouth is and running Cypherstack oftentimes puts me in the red. And that's fine
because it's me doing my part to actually help the world be free from totalitarian regimes as
much as we can. And, you know, from that perspective, we are already the underdogs.
The cypherpunks are already few and far between
teeny tiny people. We can't afford to turn anyone away, you know, male, female, whatever. And it
doesn't matter if you are hiding behind a pseudonym or coming out as like the most female,
female that's ever existed or the most male, male that's ever existed and say, we want to throw in
our lot with you cypherpunks. We don't have the numbers to go. I don't know. Sorry. I don't think
that, you know, you quite don't think that, you know,
you quite fit the description or, you know, there's few and far between freedom fighters out there.
If you're in, you're in. And that's the kind of ecosystem and environment that any place that I try to touch or whatever, that's what I try to do. It's not inclusivity for inclusivity's sake.
It's like we have a job and we have few hands to do it. So whoever wants to
be in here, like, dude, you're in here. Girl, you're in here. Get in here. We got work to do.
I don't know. So I understand that's kind of tangential and not 100% in the spirit of what
this whole thing is. It's just where I'm coming from and my perspective. This is a really interesting
where I'm coming from and my perspective, this is a really interesting space for me to listen to,
just because I get to hear the other side, so to speak, the people that are here for the crypto,
as opposed to the cypherpunk stuff. So it's doubly interesting for me in that I get to hear
the perspectives of a bunch of women, but I also get to hear the perspectives of a bunch of people
people that are here for crypto purposes and not really for the same reasons that I'm here.
that are here for crypto purposes and not really for the same reasons that I'm here.
And I guess that's it.
I love that you spoke about privacy and cyberpunks.
I'm from the cyberpunk side. And it was actually a woman who was in charge of the Canadian
Information Commission, I believe. Anne Kevorkian was her name, and she invented Privacy by Design,
which is now a standard in global privacy foundation. So thanks for bringing that up.
A woman actually is keeping us safe out there.
No, yeah, there are some incredible women like Sarah Jamie Lewis, or maybe it's Sarah
Lewis James, one of those, who works on like the Quich,
I still don't know how to pronounce it, C-W-T-C-H,
that runs on tour, it's a messaging type thingy,
and that's her old child, and I'm like, fantastic.
I don't know if you've heard of the Chinese maker, Sexy Cyborg,
Don't Let the Name Fool You.
She is a quite freedom minded creator in China and does a lot of different privacy related stuff.
He's amazing. But she's been she was silenced by China's government.
Right. Yeah. She's fantastic. Yeah.
And so I absolutely agree. That's what and that's what I'm saying.
And it's actually very interesting that when you do have this whole, like, it doesn't matter if you're this or that, as long as you've
got the same ideals, we're going the same way. If you have that kind of open ecosystem, I'm not
saying that there's no division and I'm not saying that there's no active suppression of women here,
but I do see in the cypherpunk world that because the numbers are so few, for the most part, people
shrug their shoulders and say, it doesn't matter where you are. Things are a lot more crowded in the business C-suite world.
Absolutely. Right. But with cypherpunks, there's not a lot of us. So really it's, if you're in,
you're in. And when you have that kind of open ecosystem, you, you see a lot of what a lot of
women are made of, you know, and you see a lot of what a lot, a lot, what a lot of men are made of.
And I see the frustration of a lot of women, how, you know, this is going back maybe 30 minutes
in the conversation where one of the gentlemen was saying,
you all are exceptional women.
And I can see the frustration,
how you have to be exceptional as a woman to be seen
in a lot of these saturated spaces,
whereas you can be pretty bad, whatever, as a dude,
and still be seen, right? You have to be that, as a dude and still be seen.
Right. You have to be that much better as a woman to be seen.
Same as a minority. I'm a Mexican.
Once again, I have a lot of privilege in the sense that I couldn't care less.
And I just drive forward and I'm me and my team are behind some of the biggest
privacy improvements in Monero and Furo and stuff of the past two years,
which is incredible to see. But like all these white dudes and whatever, they all work for me,
you know, and are following my vision. So it's not impossible, but it is harder. And
I know several other CEO type people who are, you know, colored or whatever, and dudes, and they
tell me, you know, a lot of this is kind of like a white boys club. That's, you know colored or whatever and dudes and they tell me you know a lot of this is kind of like a white boys club that's you know that's something that i break the mold every day just by you know
being as cool as i am and doing is the things that i do and i talk myself up a lot because i do
awesome work and you know the women that are doing awesome things you shouldn't be afraid to talk
yourselves up a lot too because you guys do awesome work but anyway back to my original point
when things are really open you know and people can people can just shine, then really it is.
It does kind of air towards meritocracy because the cream of the crop tends to rise up and do some pretty awesome stuff.
Again, not saying there's no active deterrence, but there's fewer there.
So abandon the abandon the big businesses and marketing and stuff and join the cypherpunks is my pitch to all of you ladies out here.
businesses and marketing and stuff and join the cypherpunks is my pitch to all of you ladies out
here. It's a more worthwhile thing than just amassing boatloads of money by thrifting people
and making blockchain projects that really don't have a lot of value.
Woo! Yeah, Barbie, I was going to say you should be the next speaker. Oh, Alex, that was you. Yeah,
say you should be the next speaker. Oh, Alex, that was you. Yeah, Alex, please.
Oh, sorry. Was Barbie waiting?
Yeah, she's had her hand up for a little while.
Is that okay? Sorry. I just, I kind of want to piggyback a little bit off of what you said, Alex.
And, you know, Diego kind of landed the plane bringing it back to this point, which was, you know, women are, like Alex, you said that there's not a lot
of women who are closing master deals, big deals. They're not really coming to the table. And then,
you know, earlier we heard people saying like, oh, I don't see the CVs of women. So,
you know, there's some sort of symmetry happening here with these statements. And what I'm getting is that women need to just
really speak up and go for it. Alex, I've been in a handful of your spaces before,
and you're a phenomenal speaker. I know you're a highly intelligent woman in this space.
And I know just from the way that you even present yourself in spaces, you grasp the microphone when
it's your turn. You don't let people have that,
obviously, you know, and we're seeing it in the space, you're a courteous person, but
when it is your turn, you're going to speak up and you're not going to not speak in,
you're going to make sure that your opinions are heard. And it's the same thing, not just opinion
wise. You know, this has to do with, I have this deal.
I have this.
You bring it to the table.
I was in another space where someone said, or maybe it was this space.
Gosh, I go to so many.
Where another girl was saying, hey, I put in a proposal to my job, and I'm working with
this company, and I didn't even think that they were going to take it, and all of a sudden
they're taking it. And, you know, that's the mentality. You can't walk
into it thinking they're not going to take it. You have to walk into it with the confidence that
they are going to take it. And that if they're not going to, what is the reservation? And be
open to having that discussion. Don't just take rejection as a complete total layout, unless obviously it is.
Again, that kind of goes back to workplace culture. If you're not even being heard,
do you really want to be on that team? There's so many places to be.
So what I mostly kind of just wanted to contribute was that, you know, it is very much so possible.
was that it is very much so possible.
I used to work in liquidity provision
when people were first starting exchanges.
This is probably five, six years ago already.
Before it was easy to just go get liquidity,
I was bringing liquidity providers to exchanges.
Those are massive deals, right?
You have to position yourself.
And here's the thing, as women,
and there may be some people
who are not going to like what I'm about to say, uh, stoops. Um, but you know, women were here,
not, I don't want to say we're just here for marketing, but on the marketing side of things,
we do get a lot more attention in the KOL side of things. We do get a lot of attention.
It may be, you know, leaning on the sexual side of
things. I'm not saying to present yourself like that. But what I am saying is that we are sexualized,
but that doesn't need to be always seen as a negative. Obviously, respect has to be in place,
but utilize that femininity to bring yourself to the table. This is something that most people in
this space are craving. But yes, you do have a handful of groups of guys who don't want the girls around.
Don't play with them.
There's a lot of guys that want the girls around, that value the girls' opinions.
And so go in that direction.
Don't swim upstream for no reason.
There are men who want women on their team.
There are men who see the value and the
intelligence in a lot of us. So I'll just land the plane with just saying, you know, if you see
something, if you have an idea, you need to go for it. And actually, I was going to land the plane,
but I just want to respond quickly to something else that Diego said, that a lot of the projects being built in Web3 are kind
of useless. And I'm going to disagree. Owning your, you know, your intelligence, your assets
is extremely important. And for a prime example, I had Facebook for 20 years, 20 to zero,
had Instagram built my account for 15 years, built my Bitcoin Barbie account there for 10
nearly. And at one point in time, Meta literally nuked my entire existence. And I had no chance
of getting that back. And I had to come over to Twitter in order to rebuild my entire life. My
entire networks are gone, everything. So right there, that tells you the importance of owning your own
identity and all of your information and everything that you need, because otherwise,
somebody else is going to nuke you. So the reality is Web3 isn't this big exclusive thing. Web3 is
literally bringing back control and ownership to the people who rightfully own their property.
I'll land the plane there. Thanks,
guys. Thanks, Barbie. Okay, hang on. So I wanted first to say Natalie and Bendict, I've tried to
add you as speakers multiple times. I'm getting an error when I do it. I am not gatekeeping you.
If you guys want to leave and then come back and request, we can try it again. I would love to have more speakers on the panel.
But OK, so wait, where is he? Oh, RuneBond. RuneBond app, you've had your hand up. RuneBond intern, you've had your hand up for a while. Hey, yeah. So I need to clarify some things here
because I feel like people are not understanding necessarily where I'm coming from. And quickly to
respond to Diego, when I said exceptional, as in the women were exceptional, it's just a going against the
gradient, right? Like when I was in the nursing profession, you could call me the exception to
the rule because, you know, it's generally speaking, but that's all that was. It wasn't
necessarily, you know, saying someone's good or bad or whatever. But let's use an example here,
okay? The reason I was trying to ask earlier about whether or not society
pushes people in certain directions whether it's socioeconomic factors whether it's
the patriarchal stance okay let's talk about chess the game chess for example all right um
chess has predominantly always been viewed as a very masculine game well not necessarily masculine
but male dominated perhaps that's the correct way to say it. Throughout history, right? Men have always played chess. The women that have
played chess have been very, very small amount, right? With the advent of the internet, the game
of chess has been basically emancipated. It's ubiquitous, right? Since the early 90s, we could go on some
Yahoo games, I'm aging myself there, if people remember Yahoo games, and play chess. We have an
entire generation of people who could go online and then go do things that they found interesting,
right? And chess is a good example, because if we look at the top 100 grandmasters in the world anyone in here want
to hazard a guess of how many women are part of the top 100 anyone make a guess at that okay well
i'll go ahead and give you the answer is zero okay there are more women on the planet than there are
men okay and it's like usually like 53 54 percent that the demographics are left but that is a
statistical impossibility that cannot happen and there is no gatekeeping there because anyone with
internet connection could have played chess in their in their time right so let's make another
example here all the women up here they have various differences with myself. For example, I have stronger muscles.
I have denser bone.
I have fast twitch muscle fibers.
I have high endurance.
I can run.
I have better reflexes when it comes to catching and throwing and things like that.
These are all documented.
These are right.
Women give birth.
give birth they have different tools um in the if you look at the data women have far higher
They have different tools.
emotional intelligence than men and emotional intelligence meaning that they understand like
nuances and various um aspects when it comes to interaction right on the very human scale give
you a good example remember I was with some girls at a bar we were co-workers at the time
and uh this girl came up to the table
and I thought was just a normal and friendly interaction.
And then when the girl walked away,
all the other girls at the table,
and there was three guys, there was like five girls,
all the other girls looking at her like,
did you see the way that bitch looked at me?
Did you see that?
And me and the other two guys are looking at her like,
what the hell just happened?
What was that about?
Like, no, I thought that was great. But no, those girls were convinced that she had slighted them.
And you know what? I guarantee you those girls were correct. Right. And we didn't pick up on it.
And that's because, guys, what I'm trying to say is men and women, for all the various reasons that
I gave, we have different tools and we have different purposes.
Now, our tools are generalized where we can do similar tasks.
We have like a pendulum where you can have women who are more masculine.
They are feminine. You can have extremely feminine.
You can have guys who are more feminine. You can have guys who are really masculine, obviously.
Right. But it is our natural toolkits that push us into certain interests.
And the hard thing is that's causing a lot of suffering in people, I think, is when we say
we blame it on a societal or patriarchal or whatever call-up you want to use, that why men
dominate this or why women dominate that, it is never something that can be resolved. If the reason
why that is, is that men and women just have slight differences that lead to slighter outcomes.
I hope that makes sense. Yeah, it does. It does. I have to intercede here. I'm so sorry. No, I have
to intercede here. Yeah. Okay. The emotional difference is because that is a survival instinct.
That is not a genetic difference.
That is because women basically survive on relationships and it is because they have to be attuned to men, essentially, in order to determine, like, historically and from cave times, their livelihood,
their ability to get the lion that was just killed and some of the fur, etc. is basically
whether or not they're going to be able to maintain their mate and their place in the clan.
Like this stuff, like sociologically, if you actually go and study this,
which I encourage, you will see how much of this is sociological. You have stronger muscles,
and we have a separated larynx, right, in order to speak and communicate for group hunts.
That's what we have, right? We have humans have a separated larynx so that we
can actually speak. All humans do. And that enabled group hunts. Men have a stronger upper body,
which enabled throwing spears, right? You have different muscles. I'm not sure that you were
totally sure what the differences are between men and women. You have a stronger
upper body, which was very useful for throwing spears. And we have broader hips so that we can
bear children. Those are the primary differences. And of course, we can generate milk. That's it.
So we can feed children. Those are the primary differences between men and women. I can't actually. So for the person who actually said, like, we should use our our female, you know, our like the our whatever seduction, our female wiles. Right. For the benefit of of growth. I don't have any. Right. My family doesn't have any. I was raised by a single mom who's a doctor.
My family doesn't have any.
I was raised by a single mom who's a doctor.
And, you know, doctors and scientists are all the way back in my family.
And my sister is a nuclear physicist.
And I never learned how to do makeup or anything like that.
I'm like super competitive in a super competitive family.
And I'm one of these like, do I lift more than everyone else in the gym?
Like, I'm that kind of a person. and I grew up in that kind of a family and
I don't have feminine wiles.
So if I had to like rely on feminine wiles first to pass along my gene pool, it'd be
dead.
Like that would be a bad, bad thing.
But second, I can't do that to rely to try and get ahead.
Second, I can't do that to try and get ahead.
And the fact that I don't have any is probably one of the reasons why I'm not already an
executive somewhere, because I don't have some guy who's behind me going, you know,
yeah, baby, let me get you into the executive suite.
And then, you know, we'll have sex on the floor later.
Like, that's not happening for me.
What I have is best in class product.
That's all I offer, right?
All I offer in any business I've ever created is best in class product.
That's all I can do, right?
I got one thing going for me is that I know what I'm doing.
And I'm really, really competitive.
I'm not making sure that I always do the best because I'm super competitive.
But I don't have that ability. And I want to make sure
that any type of woman or any type of man, right, is able to do whatever it is that they want to do.
Like, it is crazy how restrictive our society is. Now, granted, I'm Latina, and my family in South America is an
even more machismo culture there than it is here. And there, it's even more restrictive
in how you act in certain ways, right? There's a lot more restrictive, which is weird, right,
than it is here. It's crazy how much more restrictive things can be. But China, for example, has a much more egalitarian culture where women can do whatever
it is that they do and men can do whatever it is that they do. There's not really a restriction so how you have to act or be or whatever. And, you know, I don't think that this idea that,
you know, we had to, we have to act the way that we were forced to act because of the difficulty
in catch and capture of lions. I can't believe that we're still restricted by these same behaviors,
right? The same sort of thing. It sounds ridiculous to me. Does it not sound ridiculous to
anyone else? It does not. And you're framing it- We're in a poster society.
Excuse me. You are framing it constantly with the lens of an impression complex, right? There are differences and you're not correct. I'm sorry to say behavior is genetic. We cannot escape our genetics. When we have instincts and we have knowledge that we are encoded with, for example, as men, when we look at women, we look for fertility markers.
Real fast, I have to go. I'm not trying to interrupt to make a statement.
You've been trying to speak forever,
and I apologize that you haven't got to yet.
Yeah, let's let you cut in, and then we can pick right back up.
No, okay, so I got to leave.
See you guys. Thanks for the awesome call.
Thank you for being here.
Oh, sorry, I actually thought that was Suave Crypto.
Okay, just a couple more minutes.
Suave, I promise we're going to call on you. Bye Diego. Thank you. Okay. I'll try and make it quick. Cause I know
there's a lot of speakers here and, and, you know, I'm the contrarian view, right? So, but I still
don't want to hog the mic or nothing. So behavior is genetic. It's a hundred percent true. You can
see this in various different species. You can see it in, let's talk about dogs, for example,
you can have a dog that can be bred with behavior inside of it, right? Like you have
sheepdogs and cows where they start the motions of rounding up what would be livestock when they're
puppies, right? That's nothing they're not taught. They're not taught that, okay? You see this in
various other animals as well. Humans are no different. Okay. Our, our behavior is overwhelmingly determined by our genetics. Okay.
Because men and women did separate roles when we were in our evolution. Okay. And I, to me, it's,
it's, it's rather obvious rather. And I and interesting how I bring up the point about chess having zero
out of all the top grand chesars being zero on women. Now, you can interpret that as me saying
that women are inadequate or they're dumb. That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that there
is an obvious statistical discrepancy there that, again, very important that is not possible given the the availability
of the game of chess relative to the people that play it and relative to the population of the
world but i'll kick it back to someone else who wants to speak all right let's do suave crypto
because he's had his hand up for so long and then natalie i know you just recently joined and
cas you had your hand up too but yeah let's let's go to Suave and then we can go elsewhere. Thank you. Thank you.
And one of my founders is a woman.
Her male counterpart actually said once that it was her that brought him into crypto.
Do we need woman in crypto?
Short answer is yes.
When we say crypto is going to the moon, we're not just talking about charts and memes.
We're talking about the possibility of building the entire new financial system.
One that could one day reach $100 trillion.
There's a small contradiction, especially in the STEM field, science, technology, engineering, mathematics, that women were often excluded, underestimated, left out the room.
And when crypto constantly say we're going to the moon, one of the clearest examples
that I can kind of bring up is a woman named Catherine Johnson who literally got us to
the moon.
She's a NASA mathematician who grew up everything.
She was the underdog.
She wasn't allowed a calculator.
She wasn't allowed anything.
Just her pen and her paper.
The truth is women are not just needed in crypto.
Okay?
They have to be wanted.
The adoption and the market expansion is wild.
Crypto want global adoption
and we just can't ignore the half a billion people that are women.
You know, decentralization means governance by the many and not by the few.
And if men are going to exceed, we're going to need a lot more.
Women exclusion brings dials, boards, protocols, breaking echo chambers.
I know plenty of women builders and they're not the exception because they want to do it.
Data shows that women investors trade less and possibly often outperform better men in the long
game. It's just something that's recorded.
It's not enough to build financial tools.
Some of these stuff have to be usable, scalable,
and accessible.
And women are the ones that bring this diverse approach
to the UX design, the community building,
the direct adoption.
Sometimes men get into this neuro-minded,
me, me, me, me, me, and I'm king.
And someone brought up chess.
Technically, there's nine queens on the board.
You just got to get eight of them across.
You start with one.
Even though that the game dies when the king gets checkmate,
I can still have another queen over and over and over again they never stop they will
always be there so trying to exclude them is one of the wrong things to do but i'm pretty much just
gonna land my plane because it's pretty much was a rant it wasn't really a fact check but it was
just my opinion thank you for letting me share it though. No, I appreciate you sharing your opinion.
There are a lot of women on the stage right now.
And so I appreciate the men who are speaking.
So I want to throw it to Natalie cause she's had her hand up for quite a
while.
And then I think we have Barbie.
I think Kaz.
I know Natalie,
I don't,
I don't want to interrupt,
but I just, I have to go over the space right now.
No, I just want to say thank you guys for having me on the panel, and I would love to come back.
I'm so sorry, Natalie.
I didn't want to interrupt, but I also didn't want to just drop down and leave rudely.
I wanted to show some gratitude, so thank you so much.
And everybody in the space should be following.
Everybody on the panel, the host, co-host, make sure you guys are sharing the room, showing, liking,
commenting, get this out here. But yeah, thanks so much, guys. Love you all. And talk soon. Thanks, Barbie. Appreciate you being here.
Yeah, so it's Natalie and then Cass.
Cass, you want to go and then I can go after, you know what's happening right now, do our
down. Okay, yeah, I do, I do, I do. I have a short take because I just wanted to bring some clarity.
I think a few things are conflated because I hear some really good points that Alex is
mentioning.
And Rune Bon, I just wanted to provide clarity on kind of the social aspect that we're referring
So you gave a point about chess and you talked about why isn't there even with the expansion of chess on the
internet you know any women in the top 100 i wanted to quickly answer that for you um socially
like when you're kind of not allowed to do things legally socially there's not going to be a way for
women to get into places and you can't expect for them to be in the top when they're not included in the first place.
And a lot of these things will just catch up, you know.
So some quick stats.
In 1966, Roberta Gitt became the first woman to run the Boston Marathon, but she had to do it unofficially since women weren't allowed.
Women actually in longer distances are better than men,
if you look at the Olympics and different sports. So this is not really like, oh, we're just
different physically, so we can't do certain things, therefore gender roles. A lot of that
will just kind of get lost in the sauce about like, do we need women in crypto? This is not
like a debate if we need to be strong or not. There's
going to be obvious advantages and disadvantages physically and with different roles, but we should
not be excluded into something that's supposed to be around sovereignty. That is what crypto is.
Crypto has nothing to do with gender. And there are some great points about how women spend as
well. So just trying to understand the differences between history,
right? For example, even owning a home, like women weren't able to do that until we had a husband or
had a male cosigner. And this change only became into place with the Equal Credit Opportunity Act
of 1974. So that's not too long ago. And so if you understand and you think
like, why aren't there women in this? Why aren't there women in that? A lot of the times we weren't
allowed to be in things and now it's all catching up. And so there was other stats, you know, just
an anecdotal stat from one of the women on stage saying, look, I used to go to these crypto events.
I'd be like one women out of 50 men. Maybe it's down to like one in 20, you know, it's getting a
little better. So all these things are going to happen, whether you, you like it or not,
but just so that you don't have confusion about why women aren't in certain things,
certain clubs, chess being one of them, sometimes their NFT projects. It's because socially we're
not given the chance to enter some of these deals.
And sometimes if you, yeah, you speak your mind, maybe you're extrovert, maybe you get in the room,
you know, maybe use your sexuality. There's different techniques, different things. Maybe
a male pushes you forward. So now you're that cool woman that gets in there. Maybe it really
is your merit and your brain. So you're a good speaker, you you know your facts, you're a good dev. These are the
few avenues of which women are getting in spaces, but the biases and the social constructs and the
patriarchal behaviors, they exist. This is not like, you know, men are stronger,
like it has nothing to do with that. And actually, during the hunter gathering times,
women were hunters as well. The difference between those things was actually more about
early birds and late night owls. If people are able to kind of stay up later, that was because
during hunter gatherer times, there were people that needed to watch the flock of humans. And
then the people that were early birds were the ones that began hunting and gathering.
It wasn't just, you know, male dominant.
So, yeah, I think there's just some conflation between, like, physicality and childbearing and different anecdotal stats that are irrelevant to why we need crypto, women in crypto.
It's about sovereignty.
And, again, we're just going to catch up on all
these different things. Probably later, if you study chess, there will be some women up in the
top 100. And that's if we want to, right? If you close it off so much that it became boring for us,
we start our own games and we do our own leagues. So a lot of sports, women are getting a lot more
attention. We're doing our own leagues. Women used to not be able to play basketball and be in the NBA.
Now we have the WNBA.
Now it's getting more attention, you know, so all these kind of things.
It doesn't really matter how many stats we throw out there.
It's coming.
We're here.
And let's not conflate it with just physical constructs.
And then let's be careful about our biases of social and political constructs and
yeah thanks i'll yield the floor yeah thank you cass um it's hard because there's just so many
things um i'm gonna let you finish but i think it was my turn next you can raise your hand well i
mean she she directly referenced me um so i i should girl you know what i mean so um i don't
like i said earlier like i love women i want them to be in the thing. You modeled my position into like where I think women should be gate kept out of chess
or things like that.
That's not at all what I said.
That's not at all what I said.
But I'll let Natalie go.
No, you said we don't, you said we don't have any women in the top 100.
That's right.
So I wanted to explain why.
So I wanted to use some context.
Well, no, you did not answer.
The point I made was anyone can be on chess now there is no
gatekeeping it's online right so that's but women may not want to be and also it's right right they
don't want to be exactly why don't they want why are they but women want to be in crypto
anyways give me this mic. Shout out to the host. I appreciate y'all.
Anyways, first and foremost, I'm going to use my sociology major because I never used it before because waste of money.
But behavior may be shaped by genetics, but it is well informed.
may be shaped by genetics, but it is well-informed. And the conductor is really our
environment, which really instructs how we behave, socialization, all that other fancy words I learned
in sociology class I never applied to my real life. First and foremost, the real thing that I
want to say is that women have been here. A lot of us carved out the first, second generations
of crypto
and what it looked like while many of these men mostly white men get the credit some of us dug
out trenches for tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people to exist here um kaz like
dave and i brought like probably 70 80 000 people into the space did not sleep for two three days
at a time maybe weeks on a time and And I don't like, as my friends,
I can speak for her in this respect. None of us are looking for credit, but it just speaks to the
fact that those of us who have done, been doing the work constantly have to like work overtime,
constantly have to like show up everywhere and do every single thing all the damn time and still
are not recognized for the work that we have done and are still told on these stages that we need to work harder, that we need to keep pushing forth labor, that we need to do
X, Y, Z. None of us need to do anything else that we've already contributed to this space to make
these things happen. Like most of you wouldn't be here if it weren't for people like Kaz and Alex
and like other folks who really spent time cultivating what this space could look like for
all of us. Also, none of us need permission to
be here and to do the damn thing it does mean that we have to work harder because sorry um
well i would love to leave leave with my uh over triple d titties it's not happening like i i am
very intelligent i personally would not leave with that if you do i'm here for you and like let's get
this money but the reality is that many of these KOLs do
very much that they're mostly white women. And, you know, even Zach BXT has posted
how some how much some of y'all are getting. And like, I love to see y'all women getting money.
But at the end of the day, some of us really believe and continue to build out the trenches
here and build up some of the things that we believe the space could like provide for
black folks, women, queer folks, disabled folks. And we did just that. I don't want to put any more labor
that continues to ask me to do free work or puts me in the back of the conference
kind of pamphlet when in reality, I should be in the front, right? There was Vitalik and whoever
else just based on the work that I've done. And that goes for I can speak that into existence for many of the people that I work with or know or I'm in community with in this space.
And so on this stage, I've heard people continue to ask women to do the damn labor.
Sorry, we've been doing that shit for over a decade.
And personally, I would love for us to luxuriate in Carmen Del Playa or Bali or something instead of constantly being asked to do the damn work.
When in reality, most of y'all men should step up to the stage instead of looking and really sacrifice some of y'all checks and your positionality in this space.
And are you going to give your seat at the conferences?
Because all I keep seeing is a bunch of white men on stage, one black person,
one person probably from Taiwan, and that's it. There's no diversity or equity at these conferences.
There's no diversity or equity at these dams on these stages. There's no diversity or equity in these companies, and I work for many of them. And so some of y'all will cape for them. That's cool,
but I'm gonna keep it funky 24- so i gotta run guys i i do want to
finish i will finish and you will not continue we're on a stage what is the title okay hey
relax relax there's no need to be adversarial every single five seconds because you want to
center yourself and be the main attraction not happening ma'am i I haven't. Hold on. Hold on. I went in with one sentence and say this.
If we really want equity and y'all got to do the damn work.
I'm not doing shit else.
End of story.
So stop interrupting women and wait till they're finished.
Okay.
I just want to say Rock was not interrupting and he's.
I haven't spoken like an hour.
Yeah.
I would have finished.
I would have finished. So you can have your turn. Thank you. I am. I would have finished. I would have finished.
So you can have your turn.
I am collection time.
So I got to run for another call.
I will try to come back quickly.
I do have some contrarian takes.
I did want to say one thing.
Maybe I'll leave a can of worms
for you guys to play with
while I'm gone
and I'll come back.
But well,
one thing to respond to what you said there about women not being represented, uh, speaking on
things. I help organize a lot of events. Uh, we help organize, we're already organizing probably
10 events right now. And it is harder to find women to speak. Uh, it just is for whatever reason,
if maybe there's less of them, uh, maybe there's less of them, maybe there's less
of them in big positions and maybe that's some systemic thing, or maybe it's just women aren't
as interested in this topic. Women, I'll just say, I'm going to leave a bunch of cans of worms here
as I leave. And I apologize that I do have to leave. But I don't think women are as interested in cryptography or finance for that
matter i think yes there are some reasons that will change over time like maybe it was not accepted
as much before but i also think like i try my darndest to get cindy to like learn about crypto
or finance stuff and she's just not interested in it. She's like,
you do that. I'm going to, she's in, she's a casting director. She wants to do her creative
stuff in casting. I try to get her more into the business side of casting. She doesn't want to be
in the business side. She wants to be in the creative side. I don't know if that's a woman
thing or not. That's a whole can of worms itself. Uh, one more thing I'll say another can of worms
I'll leave is I think, um, we shouldn't shame women for using their sexuality.
If men could use their strength in whatever construction or something else,
then women shouldn't be shamed for, uh, using sexuality. It feels like some,
some of the talk here has been about like, you know, women just using their sexuality as
influencers. So what let them, if, if that's, if that's one of their powers, kudos to them.
But I'll be back. Sorry I left a bunch of cans of worms here. I'll try to be back in like 30
minutes. I have a call with Golem Foundation right now. Thanks for being here, Rock. Thank you for
being here and for those opinions. Okay. I actually have to take off too. I'm leaving,
but I appreciate it. And this has been a really fun space. If you want to know about finance, which I encourage everyone, I have spaces on Tuesdays at 12 p.m. Pacific. And I talk about the news and law, regulation, anything that impacts the stock bond and crypto markets. And I don't require you to have any prior finance knowledge, right?
So I'm trying to get financial knowledge to people, especially women.
So please join.
It's open to everyone.
Please, please, please come, right?
Just it's every Tuesday.
So please join.
Anyway, thank you so much for the space.
It's been a great discussion and look forward to to the next one take care thanks alex okay um x x aftermath and crev who are both
requested i am not ignoring your requests i'm getting a failure so you might need to leave
the space come back and request again um but yeah yeah so if you want to do that. Okay. And then I am not sure. I think it was Rune Bond.
Yeah. Oh, mother. Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Mother, you want to take it away?
Oh yeah, sure. I didn't, I didn't get to hear what Rune said.
Man, so much has been said and so much is happening. It's kind of thrown me off of my thought process,
but I would like to go into what I feel then, therefore, right? So I might not be able to
throw around a bunch of big words and stuff like that, but just bear with me here, right? So
if you will. My thing is, let's start from the beginning of times of, you know,
why women are in the position that they are
even up until this day, we've gotten a long way. But as far as when it all started, we were already
hindered and try to put below the male status, whether it's how we think, how we feel and how we see things. Um, and as much as it's been conquered in different
ways and, and tried, it doesn't really work ever for too long. I mean, women are always
belittled, but you know, let's think about the women who has invented things like the wind,
like the windshield wipers, computer algorithms, software programming,
home security systems, I don't know, like wireless transmission or radio pioneer work,
if anybody knows what that is.
And this is dating really far back into the early 1800s, if anything, as far as I am concerned.
But even still to this day, no matter after all that women have accomplished,
we're still second to the best of what society calls is best, which are men. And so for me,
it's really confusing as to who does anybody even think that they are to say, do women need to be in crypto? Why is it always that women are questioned of our capability
and our status of where we belong and how we belong? That it all started from just women
being belittled into a certain category of what it is that we are capable of doing or at the capacity of how we're capable of doing
something. But we always prove that wrong. We always prove it to be wrong. We always prove
that we are more. So that makes me think and say, well, there's a certain power that we hold and
possess that is way more powerful than anything else in this world. Hence the creator, the creation aspect of who we
are. We are creators of the world, period. That's it. Nobody can ever argue that because it is just
what is proven, whether you look at it physically or you look at it mentally. The most proof in the
pudding is the physicality of women. So my thing is, is the men, Tupac said it best. And I don't mean to be like
pulling the black card so much here and stuff like that. But, um, I guess this, this is just
how I could relate. And Tupac said it best in his lyrics, you know, where he was saying like,
you know, the men, they bring down the women, they rape the women and we're the ones that are
birthing them. So, so why are we always being told by who we birthed what we can and cannot do and how we should do it when we should do it?
So women are needed here because if crypto was created by men, all right, we understand that.
But look at crypto. Look at the status of crypto of what it's in.
It goes up and down the way how it goes up and down
it's all about it's about profit it's about um it's about it's a lot of aggression in it
and just the way how it flows maybe if women had did it first if we were even capable of having the
mindset that we had that we are in the position to have created something like this, then possibly we could have
if we never attempted to and just got shut down. Who knows that that's a possibility, right?
But if women had created it from the beginning, I'm almost certain that the flow of crypto could
have been different. So in saying that, we are where we are now, no matter what. All right,
we can't cry over spilt milk. So allow the women to come in and do what we do best, which is fix things, fix things and recreate it into something else
for it to be prosperous. If crypto is expected to do what it's doing in the future for the world,
for the globe, then women have to be in it because of that. That's one. But then two, because of our ability to create and how we harness things, how we control things emotionally.
Like a lot of people say that women are emotional creatures and they try to say it as if we're immaturely emotional. And that's not true.
We are just in tuned way more than the men are.
And that's not saying that that makes the men any less.
But this goes back to the perspective of what we were talking about, that women just have different perspectives.
And that has to be respected.
And if it's not going to be respected, then the respect will be demanded.
So that's where a lot of the aggression does come from.
The woman's voice, like how Natalie was expressing that just now, or Cass,
you know, that is not anger. It's not frustration. It's just demand. You know, it's that demand.
We're demanding the respect. We're demanding the placement. It's simply just that, in my opinion,
you know, but for us to be here, it's necessary. And I'll land my plane there.
Awesome.
Thank you for speaking.
All right, Runebond, you're up.
All right.
Yeah, I was actually really like what Mother said at the end there when she was talking
about the emotional aspect of a woman, because I think she's right.
I mean, women have a different perspective.
They come at it through a different manner.
And it's something that men men like myself, we lack. So, uh, I, I agree with the tail end of what you were
saying. I think that was well said. Um, I don't know why we're bringing up race in this, but by
the way, guys, just disclose, I am, I am mixed race. I am part native American. That doesn't
matter, but I just, I guess I better say it because everyone keeps bringing it up, but, uh,
and it's not really relevant, right? Like I want to talk about like women being in here. And obviously, as I've said, I love women. I want them in the thing. I think the important thing
that I keep trying to hammer home and it just keeps getting sucked into like this oppression
thing. And that's not what I'm coming from, right? I want to move the conversation back a little bit.
When we were talking about career choices, right? The arguments made on the, if I take the flip side of the argument, devil's advocate
is that, you know, we as a society push, you know, gender into certain roles through various
pressures, whether it's peer pressure, whether it's a patriarchal system, you can describe it
any way you want. Okay. But the thing that I would just keep trying to hammer home guys is that we have
differences, just like how mother said about women having this emotional energy to them,
this intuition, this ability to see things from a different perspective, right? That's the
superpower women have, right? Superpower men like this very much. Um, and that's why you see a lot of women like they go into like child care, child care. Right.
Because and I don't think I'm saying anything that's too controversial here.
Like there is a difference what we call maternal instincts and paternal instincts.
These are different words. And that's because they they mean different things and they result in different actions.
And to clarify something, because I have found the genesis of
humans, like our tribalism days, I want to clarify something. Women, generally speaking, were not the
hunters, right? That was almost exclusively men. They could do it, of course. I mean, there's
nothing stopping a woman from hunting, but, you know, this was something that men primarily did.
Women would stay, you know, back at the tribe. you get a good forage um you know they could take care of children right but it's because again of the
somatic muscle our fast twitch muscle fibers this is something that men are equipped to do naturally
now in a pinch could a woman do it and be very well of course women are extremely capable right
but there is a reason we are the way that we are. Right. If we did the same exact things and there wasn't that much difference, then we would be the same thing.
We are we are tools. Right. We are tools and we have a toolkit and we aim at different priorities.
Doesn't mean like, you know, back in the day, a lot of men were typically the leaders of the tribe, but there's plenty of historical references where women were in charge.
Men were typically the leaders of the tribe, but there's plenty of historical references where women were in charge.
Joan of Arc, Cleopatra, Queen Elizabeth, right?
You guys could probably think of someone's on your own, right?
And I just encourage everyone, we have to be careful.
If we keep reverting back to an oppression complex, then we will always be miserable because we discount the,
our idealized interpretation of reality means that we will never be satisfied
because we omit the various obvious point that men and women are a little
different and we have slight preferences.
I think Blue, I think you were next.
I think blue, I think you were next.
Yeah, I think I'm just going to state my comment.
I don't think we need to counter the argument about whether women should be in crypto.
Instead, we should explore how the space can grow and thrive with the women in it. Very much like Natalie said. Natalie and Cass alone,
Alex, like half of the businesses that are running is because of women. Literally, it's,
these companies literally walked on the backs of women. When Natalie's talking about like the foundation and roads,
like the music artists of how certain companies who produce music and say they're on crypto,
like these people built their companies on the backs of women. So yeah, I don't,
that's my statement. I'm gonna leave it there.
All right. I think Natalie had her hand up. Okay. First of all, I's my statement. I'm going to leave it there. All right.
I think Natalie had her hand up.
First of all, I'm not aggressive.
You can see it.
But I'm very assertive because some of y'all be off the chain in this space.
And that's just my natural personality.
First of all, Blue, I love that point.
It's focusing on what we can do instead of
looping around to the maybe original conversation. Secondly, also anthropologists, is that women
actually in foraging societies were actual hunters, and some of them even led the hunt.
And so there's been numerous shown like at the University of
Washington, Robert Kelly, who's a well-known anthropologist has for years like appended like
this idea that only men were hunters. And so like, I don't want to get into the whole
anthropological like conversation about that because it's a whole different Twitter space,
but I do think people should research those things if you still think that. So I'll leave that there. Secondly, just looping back
to like what Blue said, I think it's important to like, you know, over the years, like, you know,
Kaz, and there's other people in the space too, that can verify, like, we've had these conversations
around like, should women be in crypto? And like, I think it's a great topic. However, if we recenter the conversation around, like,
what we all can do respectively within our own capacity, within our own kind of, like, purview,
the things that we're already doing to, like, really continue to put the battery in the backs
of women who built the undercurrent and the foundation for this space, credit or no credit,
that is fact. And so I'd love to
continue to like explore like how we can continue to build opportunities, create opportunities,
because I'm not going to sit here and wait for men in the space to recognize that women actually
exist here. And I'm not going to sit up here and like engage in conversation around people who say
they can't find women to speak at conferences. If you can't find women to speak at events, I think
between several of us on stage,
we can find probably like 150 women
for you to choose from.
They're well-versed in their topics.
The problem is that some of you like to pick people
that play the game and like, I'm not that person.
There's other people in the space that are not.
And so do you want intelligent women
to get on stage to talk about finance?
I got you.
Of all, from, I get some Zimbabwe, Jamaica, Antarctica, wherever you want them from.
I got you.
So I just would love to, if it's okay, to maybe circle back to, if you bite me one more time, you're not getting no more French fries.
Anyways, I'm a weird cat that likes to rent trans. But in all seriousness, I love to kind of capture even what some people are already doing on stage to like do that work. There are people hosting residencies or people, you know, you know, Kat and I both have to, you know, produce our own events in response to kind of what's happened in the last several years. And so I love to continue on that thread of topic because we can, you want to talk about anthropology
or geography and like all this other stuff.
Like I can get to the weeds.
We can, you know, I can send you some of my papers
or research, even in crypto.
So I just, but let's not go there for your own sake.
And so Kaz, I think you had your hand up.
I don't remember.
I'm not the host, so I'll leave that to y'all.
No, I think RuneBond does have his hand up up I don't see Cass's hand if it's up um I apologize
for that Natalie I wanted to just say so I my my PhD that I dropped out of was in religious studies
and my undergraduate degree and my master's are in religious studies and I love that. Yeah, and that's heavy sociology, anthropology,
just, you know, with a spin.
And yeah, I actually,
so I don't use the language because it's ridiculous,
but I do use it all the time in cryptocurrency.
In fact, I applied my thesis from my dissertation
to cryptocurrency.
So yeah, so thank you for mentioning that.
And yeah, I do use it all the time.
And yes, I see a lot of what you're talking about.
But okay, RuneBond has his hands up.
Let's go there.
Yeah, that was really a fun, interesting conversation.
You know, I had to put my faith in the,
in the audience, listen to the conversation. Cause I'm not at all saying that women didn't
hunt, you know, I'm, I'm just telling you general patterns, right? Like for example, um, back when
we were on tries or before we had written, um, history, you know, written language, things like
that. Apparently how it works. If you were on like, um, a plane, right. You would have to run
the animal down. That's why we have, you know, like we sweat and we have sweat glands and we
have incredible endurance. And that's because like, if you had, I don't know, um, like a
wildebeest or an elk or I don't know, something like that. You literally can run them down. You
can just jog in their direction and constantly get them to run in a certain direction and, you know, pattern recognition, following their tracks, keeping an eye on them to the point because they cannot sweat.
They basically fall over and die of heat exhaustion and then you would finish them off with a spear. Right.
And so that requires a tremendous amount of endurance. That's something that men are specifically designed to do. Right. But yeah. And to forget, I'm sorry, it was Natalie, but she's correct.
Women have hunted and women were particularly good fishing, right.
Something that they can do.
But, you know, like I said, there are differences to men and women for obvious reasons.
And I hope I'm not getting boring in this conversation because it's not if there's like I said, it's a spectrum.
Isn't this? It's not a generalization we have to speak in generalities here because you have different
personalities you have a type personality women that you know come off as what would people
conventionally call masculine and that's okay like we're we're a very complex species we have
a lot of uh as the word is diversity diversity. So that's all. If anyone has any
questions or want to kick it to anything else, I'm more than open.
Okay. So Cass, did you have your hand up? I didn't see it. Did you have it up?
I don't see it either. I did earlier. I did earlier. Okay. Gotcha.
I did earlier.
Okay.
Gotcha.
Oh, that's funny.
No, yeah, still refocusing back to crypto.
Because I think there's a lot of different directions.
But refocusing back to crypto, women do need to be in crypto.
And we will be in crypto where there are thoughts of why we don't need to be in crypto.
If it was merit-based or if someone could tell me why we don't need to be in crypto,
that would be a whole other topic.
But women do need to be in crypto.
But I wanted to kind of just thank the panel.
Thanks for having us.
I do have to hop in.
And, you know, like Natalie said, sometimes we have to put on our own events. So I'm putting on my own event here in Hawaii. And I'm very excited to talk to the Boys and Girls Club today, the Boys and Girls Club today to talk about crypto.
early. It's really good to learn early. Sometimes we learn a little bit later into finance,
so maybe you won't see us in finance as much. But the earlier you learn about blockchain and finance,
the better chance we can of dispelling some of those societal issues and more confidence we can
give in young women and the youth. So I'm really excited to talk to them today, as well as Blue.
I'm really excited to talk to them today, as well as Blue.
Thank you for helping me set that up.
And yeah, I believe everyone belongs in crypto.
That's my overall stance.
So thank you for the time.
I'm going to hop out and get to work.
Crypto doesn't rest.
And I'm back at it again and really happy to do it in the islands in Hawaii.
So thank you, everyone, for the space.
Thanks for being here, Cass. Okay, Joelle, you've got your hand up. Joelle is the real host of this
space. Well, first off, can you actually hear me? Perfect, can you hear me?
Oh, wow. I guess downloading that app did actually work. Headphones. I just have a question that I
don't have an answer to, which is we've been talking a lot about I think everyone sort of universally
agrees that we need everyone in crypto everyone should be at all people in
crypto should be allowed including women but what I want to know is are like
women specific things like a women in crypto panel or a women in crypto mixer or like
are those kinds of things is that good or not i just i don't have any i find them cringe i find
them cringe like i don't want it to be a panel on women in crypto i want it to be a just like you
know just like a panel about something that actually about something that the people want to hear about.
And I know that a lot of times when there are those panels, people don't show up to them.
What does everyone else think?
Yeah.
Well, Blue has her hand up before me, so I'll kick the Blue.
If you're speaking, Blue, I can't hear you.
Oh, yeah.
Just like Cass was saying to everybody, thank you, Dash.
Thank you, Quick Swap.
Thank you to the nerdy girl and everyone who spoke.
Really appreciate it. Like Cass said, we are here in
Hawaii and we are literally talking to youth, but not only youth, we're talking to local businesses.
We're building and creating the users for all these things that we're building here in crypto.
We kind of need people to use these products. So we have to educate and create users and show people how to do it.
So that is what we're doing.
And thank you for the space and have a great day.
And yes, women are in crypto.
It's not should they be in crypto.
We are in crypto.
We help build it.
And so we're all here.
So let's build together.
All right. Goodbye. Thanks. thanks for making it all right rune you gonna go yeah well you know the thing
nicole i agree with you by the way um one thing i think about is actually how do you entice women
to come into crypto how do you do it um because we've actually i've had this topic
before and uh i'm not sure i did have i did have a uh female only crypto space and um nicole i gotta
share um they didn't show up i had two women out of like seven um and maybe that was me i didn't
market it correctly um i you know i don't want to exalt myself of criticism. Maybe I did a bad job, but I found
that quite surprising. This is anecdotal. This is coming strictly from a male as it has to be.
I've dated women and I got to say, if I talk to a woman about Thor chain, oh boy, it's not
something that gets them particularly excited, I have to say. And again, that's my personal experience.
But again, if I talk to any of the women I talked to today about maybe what Thorchain was or any protocol like Dash or QuickSwap, whatever, you would be interested.
You would be super interested.
But that's because we're different, right?
Like you are in this industry and this is an interest of yours.
We're talking about the women who are not in crypto.
And when I tried to approach the average woman on the street about crypto, I run in all kinds of friction and feedback.
It's very difficult.
And I agree, Nicole.
I don't think women only panels.
It seems kind of tacky and it does make me feel like it should just be whoever up there should be an open panel, both men and women working together.
For example, I've taken advice, you know, I make investing advice.
I have to thank a woman for helping me make a lot of money because I invested a lot in Tesla stock at the time.
And one of the people I really enjoyed listening to was the ARK investor, Cathie Wood.
Right. And when I listen to her, I don't care if she woman, I'm listening to what she's saying, the merit, the first principles, her logic, um, the data, right.
I'm listening to this. I don't care if her voice has an effeminate or masculine tone. There's no
intonation there. What is the merit? Right. So yeah. Um, I love women and I want them in here.
So I I'm curious, how do we get them in here? Because I don't know. We need to do marketing campaigns that are directed specifically to women. The
problem is that there's a lower return on them, at least. So this is my perspective, right? As a
woman who works in crypto marketing and PR. So it's difficult to convince, you know, marketing firm or any firm to spend the money that they're going to need to spend on a woman targeted campaign when that's a more difficult transition.
Like it's easier to attract men.
So the return on investment is higher when the marketing campaigns are directed towards them.
Precisely correct.
Yeah.
You know, when you are paying to market something, you want the best return on investment.
So of course, it's going to be slanted towards men because men more often gravitate to this industry.
Well, and they have more money, just globally speaking, right?
Sure. Yeah, I guess that's probably a fair point to make, sure.
Yeah.
All right, does anybody have their hand up?
I don't see them, but if anybody does.
I see Joelle has his hand up.
Oh, does he?
Okay, Joelle.
Well, I didn't have my hand up, but I did have another thing,
another anecdote I wanted to sort of share.
Why, show of hands, who here remembers Vera Hurley?
Is that name familiar?
Can you say it again?
Sorry, hold on a second.
I dropped a headphone.
Someone else go.
Did you hear, what name did he say?
Something Harley or something?
I didn't hear it.
Did anyone hear that okay we'll have to wait for him to come back and uh and say the name um yeah joel do you have your earphone have you i hope drive safely man don't swear all over the
road i've been there anyone drop hot coffee on their lap and you're just like wigging out in
the friggin driving state that's a nightmare yes that happens uh as i was saying uh mira hurley was a person in the crypto space um
and she was kind of like a pretty outspoken uh account on x and did a lot of good work
uh and it turns out that mira hurley was was man, actually, named Milan de Redde, who worked for the Dutch Central Bank at the time and needed a pseudonym and just decided to pick a female one.
And it's funny because at one of these, I think it was Web3 Amsterdam this year, he was on the, or he was on or offered to be on the Women on Crypto panel because of like being one of the more well-known women funny enough but you know he had some very interesting perspective where
he said that he noticed a big difference in how he was treated when people thought he was a woman
versus knew he was a man um when being treated as a woman first of of all, Mira Hurley got so many dick pics.
That's kind of strange.
It was not a particularly
attractive woman
picture. It was just like, it was in the
early days before AI generations
were very good. It was just some random
brunette
white woman.
Just somehow got so many
dick pic DMs, but then also got a lot of
like aggressive talking down to dms and stuff too where you have like you know just like
no you don't know what you're talking about like like various stuff that stopped after the
milan came out as a man then
Both of those things just completely stopped and it's like it's not an experience of course. I've not experienced that myself
It was just kind of mind-blowing to me a little bit And I think that's probably a very distinct minority of people that are acting like this
But I do think that there is a small group of people that are just you know i guess leave
the dudes alone a little bit but then as soon as they just aggressively in different ways act
towards women in crypto space or probably that's probably just the internet in general but do i just
share that that funding
that that funding yeah i think that's the thing with the internet is you know i don't think
our evolution really accounts for something like the internet i think a lot of um oh there's a new
speaker up here i'm so sorry um i'll make this quick crypto i didn't see you um i think the
internet breeds a lot of mental illness in people um particularly in social media you know people
tend to only put um the best part of their aspect on there right and so a lot of mental illness in people, particularly in social media, you know, people tend to only put
the best part of their aspect on there. Right. And so a lot of people feel like their life is
not doing well because when people like, like you ever seen the person who takes a nice selfie
with their loved one and they're in some foreign remote, you know, thing you wouldn't know just a
second before that I took that picture that they were yelling at each other. Right. And that is
the thing is like social media constructs an artificial construct of, of the wider world. And also
the internet also connects a lot of people to a lot of people, right? There are no societal
ramifications for sending a picture of your penis to a woman, generally speaking, right? Because
you're largely anonymous, right? There's no consequence.
And that's, that's the problem. That's absolutely wild, by the way. Yeah. And that's, and that's a
problem, right? And that shows like a lot of the bad guys out there, something like if someone did
that to a girl, I know I'd, I'd beat them like that. That's so accept disgusting, unacceptable.
Right. But that is the problem with the internet. And yeah, it's a really difficult thing because there is no feedback mechanism to shame them.
If someone flashed a woman their genitalia in public and that was witnessed, there should be an automatic ostracization of that person or shaming event.
Of course, maybe going to jail is illegal.
You know what I'm saying?
But that feedback mechanism doesn't really exist and so the worst people um really feel empowered and they do it you know willy-nilly not too too much
but i'll go ahead and kick it to crypto if you want to pipe in oh is it crypto canal is that ellie
i don't know oh yeah crypto canal yes it is hi, it is. Hi, Ellie. By the way, privacy.
I'm all about that.
I love that.
Hi, peeps.
Hey, Eleanor.
Hello, hello.
I just couldn't help but coming onto this, to this space.
He definitely attracted you.
I'm happy that you're here.
This was so smart.
I saw the title and I was like, wait, Zano, Dash, Joel and this fucking thing calling like, do we really need women in crypto?
I was like, I need to jump on this. And then I just wanted to listen to see where this conversation was going a little bit.
Do we really need women in crypto? Good question. Call me triggered.
I think we need everyone in crypto. And it sounds I think that's kind of like a cop out answer.
I think we need everyone in crypto and it sounds I think that's kind of like a cop-out answer
but I don't think we need targeted marketing campaigns to women just like we don't need
women in crypto panels just like I don't think we need any gender affirming whatever content
BS out there I think crypto is for everyone by default and my gender has nothing to do with me wanting more liberty, peer-to-peer cash,
volunteerism, and liberty. So yeah, that's my two cents. Now I can leave.
No, Ellie, I agree with you on that, right? Like I was attracted to crypto the first time that I
remember hearing about it, but we're not all the same. So I wonder if it would be more beneficial,
all the same so I wonder if it would be more beneficial but like I you know maybe that is
as I said like part of the reason why we don't have targeted campaigns maybe it's just they don't work
well I don't know I don't know once it just makes me once someone told me why when I organize
hackathons do I allow people that are in teams or that are professional hackers or that come here professionally as hackers?
And I was like, the only thing I cater to or the only thing I can make sure the only leveling field that I take care of is a venue for all bathrooms for everyone and food.
And that's the only thing I can control.
I can't control who comes, what people
hack on, how they're organized, et cetera. So let alone their gender. So basically I think crypto
by, by default and, and, or, or events or hackathons or whatever people are working on or,
or projects, um, we attract people through our values and the and the you know the actual benefit that
we're offering not per yeah i don't know i'm getting lost in my own track of thoughts but
basically i think anything that's targeted towards a specific gender you lose you lose the soul you
lose the you're then you're sort of you're pandering to a certain audience
and you forget what you're building except that marketing campaigns are in crypto are directly
targeted to men and i know this is someone who works for a firm that represent you know that
has over the years that i've been there represented probably 50 different clients
and they specifically want these campaigns targeted to men.
So, yeah, so that's all.
I mean, I guess that makes sense.
You want, like, on a pure capitalist point of view of your project,
the more money you put in a campaign, the more return you want.
If you know that crypto in general is more appealing to men
who are maybe more risk averse
and you want them to just whatever put capital or allocate or buy token or whatever the cta is
um i would also you know target more more men i think that makes sense just on a purely it does
on an ROI level it's it's it makes sense Natalie, you've got your hand up.
I'm being polite today.
I got you.
I think this industry has spent, like, the last decade that I've been here, like, many, many years, like, propagating these assumptions that, you know, there's just men here or there's, like, all these things. And, you know, I'm in She-Fi, which is run by Maggie Love.
And, like, that is essentially, essentially like an affinity group for women.
And I've gotten a lot of opportunities from there.
I've met so many dads.
There's like tens of thousands of women in that group.
And I think it also stands as an example of like what it means to build what is essentially like an affinity group for a certain specific demographic of people and why it can't be beneficial. However,
many of the marketing campaigns, and I think it's been said like a few times that we have a lot of
pinkwashing in this space. We have a lot of marketing campaigns that, you know, in the past
that have targeted women or projects that have targeted women. And it's kind of like, this is
not like a 1994, like cigarette ad or like these you know these other kind of things and the pink
washing is mad played out so I'm like who's actually hiring women to creatively direct or
creative direct like these marketing campaigns and to like put them together that understand like
the target demographic because they are them and like what does it actually look like to like build
more of these affinity groups like she finds it authentic they're cool groups or people can get um opportunities
or jobs like or all these things and people are able to shepherd these people into these like
positions they're shepherding these people into kind of like i got a lot of jobs like doing like
review panels for grants like i not most people don't like that shit i love that but at the end
of the day like i got those gigs because of like communities like SheFy however you know being who I am or whatever in the space
like I don't often get those opportunities A because I'm a loud mouth but like B like
it's kind of like the same opportunities go to the same people and like we can carve out
some space for people to say hey like you know I have like a chat group and it's just a bunch of
African-American women that are in that space And some people may not like the idea of that. But for me, it's a safe
place where I don't have to deal with microaggressions from people, I can control like
who's in the group and who's not. And the vibe of the group and everybody for the last like four or
five years have really enjoyed kind of building each other up, helping each other with their
resumes, doing all these things. So there is a place for like those types of things. But there are also other groups that are like mad caddy and you got
the mean girls, like all this other shit. You want to see people be aggressive, come to those groups.
And so like, so I just, there is a place for those, but I just, the whole, I'll end and say
like the whole women panel, like don't, like I specifically said said I will not take on those like ass even if you pay me like
I'm not doing that shit because it sets a tone in the space where like we only need to be in those
spaces where I should be on these other stages my friends should be on the main stage with all
these like white men you have up there and if you look at the makeup of these conferences and look
at the speakers you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. And it
is important for us to bring up oppression. It is important for us to bring up sexism and racism
because that is many of our, that's much of some of our stories in this space and how it shaped
our experiences. And so while some people may not want to hear that shit, like it is some of our
realities and how we've conquered that is equally important. So I just, I'm here for the group if they're made by us.
I'm just saying.
It's interesting because as a conference organizer,
I want the best speakers.
I don't care what they look like.
I don't care about their gender.
I want someone who has something to add to the conversation.
I want, if the person happens to be a woman
and happens to be whatever color and happens to be whatever whatever color
whatever race whatever whatever we're calling it now I don't that doesn't I
don't care about that I care about what she's going to say or what or whoever's
on stage is going to say I don't even ask for people's gender in any forms I
don't think I do no I definitely do not ask for gender or where they're from, right?
When I look at a speaker application, I look at what are the key learnings that people are going to get from this talk.
And yeah, at least from my perspective, that's what I cater to.
I want people who are sitting in the audience not to feel represented.
in the audience, not to feel represented.
I don't want to create a safe space. That's not my goal.
That's not my goal.
My goal is to create a place for innovative talks and to further
discussions and debates and further the space and further the values of the space.
Not to cater to everyone, not to put everyone and anyone on stage.
The goal here, and I see it more as like, I don't know, militant event organization when everyone that I put on stage,
every person that people will hear might be influenced,
might think differently,
might build something different during the hackathon.
Yeah.
Nicole, are you talking?
You're kind of breaking up, Nicole.
I can't hear you Nicole So yeah that's just my my I understand what you were saying Natalie I do I just I think it's uh
I'm glad SheFi exists I see that it's a very successful group
Maggie has been doing a tremendous job.
So there is definitely a need. And I think the free market, just like Maggie saw an opportunity
and is thriving with this organization, there's definitely room for women-specific places.
And I think that's just, it's great that it exists and that for some women, that's something
that they need and that they feel like that's a place where
they can learn and grow. But yeah, I guess from a project perspective,
I think that would be a bit off.
I'm sorry. I'm so sorry for, for, for, for,
I wanted to just come for a few minutes.
Baby has requested me and is very not happy that I'm on the basis.
Go take care of your baby. Awesome job.
Exactly.
Time for baby putting to bedtime.
It was just a quick say hi to everyone.
Let's keep the conversation going.
I love it.
I love debating.
I love disagreeing.
I've been mourning Charlie Cook all day, and I've been so sad.
So it's just nice to hear your voices.
And we keep fighting for the truth
and we have to have courage to speak up
because crypto is not an innocent
and it's something that we're all fighting for.
So on that note...
Hey, crypto, I just came back from my call
and I heard you talking about Maggie.
Are you talking about Maggie from SheFi? Yeah, I brought came back from my call and I heard you talking about Maggie.
Are you talking about Maggie from SheFi?
Yeah, I brought up Maggie.
Nice.
She actually serves on the Polygon Grants board with myself and Michelle, who I was trying to get up to speak earlier.
But yeah, Maggie's doing great work.
Yeah, I just, Nicole, are you back?
Because your mic was cutting out. We hear you or at least oh lord yeah i can't hear you nicole you know x bases are good
at rugging and that's what they do yeah proof of rug yeah maybe like one last comment i have to go
um nicole you gotta hit the phone like five times i just like when i go to conferences and i see like i know
people are like uh sending me dms like getting pissed off but like when i see all white guys
it's like could you not really find like other diverse voices to like speak to actually have
something to say like and i think the age-old like issue is like oh well we couldn't find like
i'll find you people that actually have experience and actually like i don't think everybody should
have to sit on the c-suite board or, like, all these other things.
But there are a bunch of women who have, like, laid the pipelines for this space that actually have a lot of things to say, are hyper-intelligent.
And when we say we only can find, like, white guys to sit on these stages.
And, like, you can look at the makeup, again, of these conferences and events.
And, like, obviously not all of them.
But there's a reason why some of us have to go do our own events because it's kind of like those are the only people that have something to say.
Like, that's a problem.
And it's a lack of equity in the space.
And, like, I do think it's a blind spot for many people when they say, I can't find people.
Or, like, you know, I'm not looking at gender.
I'm not looking at this.
And that's cool for you.
But for me, I'm very intentional about, like, saying, hey, I'd love to showcase, like, people across the space that come from different environments, that come from different experiences, so that actually people can go to my event and get something from that shit.
Like otherwise, we're just hearing the same talking heads go on and on and on.
And like, again, like I'm happy to be a resource for people that want to find diverse voices that have like health experience and have like pioneered some of this industry and done the damn thing.
have like health experience and have like pioneered some of this industry and done the damn thing.
But like, I think we need to like evolve as like an industry, a community ecosystem and like really
look beyond like ourselves because representation does matter. Having different voices helps to
better shape whatever industry we're in. We have diverse perspectives. We have diverse experiences
that can really reimagine like what we all want to do here. And as left time, Africa and Southeast
Asia are leading
the charge in terms of adoption we must have those people on our stage to showcase how they're doing
business there what makes sense what is working what is not working how we actually push adoption
forward otherwise we're just reiterating the same thing that's happened for the last several years
and people don't have to like agree with that but that's how I do my work that's how I do my business I make sure that we all kind of share space on these stages otherwise we're just doing some other ass shit
that I don't want to engage in so that is it um Joelle Nicole thank you I'm so mad your mic is
not working Nicole um and I'm gonna go sit in the audience because I gotta go eat my cereal at one
o'clock in the afternoon so So yeah, something you were saying
was actually, I guess, sort of resonated when you said about how, like, you can't find people.
And kind of like, basically, all of my job revolves around knowing a lot of people,
finding a lot of people and a lot of different things. And it, I guess I would just say a lot of people finding a lot of people and a lot of different things and it I guess I would just say a lot of people it's just in general need
to do a lot better at their jobs and some of that is like so if you have a
small pool of candidates to pull from then you don't have much optionality and
who gets represented like say hey let's do, let's do a panel on people who do XYZ, whatever.
Like a UX design panel or whatever.
And you only have from like, now whatever the diversity might be,
whether it's even like, oh, it's only web extension wallet people that you have.
No one in the other rest of the space.
Whatever it is, if you have too small of a pool of people to pull from that tends to impact
your ability to, I guess, find a diverse opinions and participants.
And so like a lot of times when I see people and there's some sort of a
conference or a panel or something, for example,
and it's like the same like copy paste looking sweater vest tech bros, like eight of them that just look exactly like they're all named Tyler or something.
It's like, well, you don't like that to me shows you haven't gotten out there enough to like know people.
Like you don't you only know five people.
So you invited those five people.
If you knew 100 people, you could choose which of the five or eight of those 100 people you invited.
And if it's like you have a panel or whatever and you're like, okay, well, I need to have a woman on the panel.
Let me just pick the one woman I know and put her on there even though she's not qualified. went out there and talked to enough people and made enough connections and did your own damn job well enough, you would have a big, like, you'd have so many people to talk to,
so many people, so many options to talk to in this case, not just, oh, that's the only
one I have because my pool is too small.
So generally speaking, I think that if you do better as a whole, then you have a lot
more optionality in terms of specifics you do
uh yeah you know the thing with um like thor chain when it comes to a protocol that's one
of the most complicated protocols that's one of the definitely that's ever existed it's it's
really complicated i find that if you have we have like a huge diversity of experience,
right? We've got lawyers, accountants, we've got obviously developers, software engineers,
of course, you know, doctors, we've had economists, philosophers, the people I've met in real life.
By the way, guys, whether you, you know, whatever opinion you subscribe to, I just encourage you to
go actually meet the people in crypto.
It's just such a wonderful experience.
I've talked to people.
You realize that there's so many wonderful human beings out there
and they're so intelligent.
When you humanize the space, it just, it really levels up.
But when I, when I look for opinions, right?
It's not necessarily, I want diverse opinions.
I want accurate opinions.
And the, how you get that is if you have a diversity of experience. And these are like checks and balances, right? A developer designing an economic
primitive, although he may understand what's possible with code that an economic major may not,
the economic major will influence the design so it doesn't implode, right? And so I want the
diversity of experience and I want the diversity of experience
and I want the correct opinion.
It's like if some guy came up,
it's like, so, okay, one plus one equals two.
And then some guy comes like,
well, hold on a second, bro.
I'm like, dude, shut the hell up and get out of here.
It's two.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, that's what came to mind there.
Nicole, can you speak or are you still run?
Is my, my mic has been being funky.
Can you guys hear me?
I can hear you
just fine rock you're you're great so so if i could jump in um because natalie was saying some stuff
and i guess i think when we start saying likeasing yeah but um so okay one of the so
and joelle to what you were saying that you know you need to expand your network i mean i like you
i'm constantly like we're setting up like 10 events around the world right now and so we have a lot of
large rolodex of people we try to go to speak.
And, you know, most of the time, being honest, I'm not thinking about is someone male or female.
I'm just trying to find the best speakers.
And the reality is there's just way less women speakers in this industry.
And there's way less women builders in this industry.
So if the majority of the industry is male builders,
male speakers,
and who do people want to speak at conferences,
typically the highest ranked person at a company is what you're going for.
And if you look at like the top 10 crypto projects,
it's all males.
So is that fair?
I don't know.
But if we're just talking about in reality,
if you're looking for the best speaker
or the person that people are going to show up to watch, in reality, most of're looking for the best speaker or the person that people are going to
show up to watch in reality, most of them are males in this space. Now you could be upset with
that and we could try to change the makeup of it and we could encourage women to come into the
space. And I had a whole program, you know, Nicole mentioned being the first woman hire at LDA.
And that was like six years ago. And she, she mentioned we've, we've had other women.
We don't have very many women, and we have tried a lot.
And we even had a period of time where we were making a big effort of the company.
Let's find more women in the space.
We want more women to bring that diverse kind of feel and flavor.
Women are great.
When you have women in the room, it changes the vibe.
It helps bring a different, like you said, diversity of thoughts and opinions.
But the reality is it's not that easy, guys.
I'm just going to say it's not that easy.
There aren't as many women in crypto.
If you take 100 crypto devs, for example, I'm going to bet you it's at least 80% of them are men.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's 95% of them.
Yeah, I agree with that. I think
that was well said. I mean, it's just, it is what it is. The demographics are what the demographics
are, right? And that's what my whole point was, you know, like the title, do we really need women
in crypto? Of course we want women in crypto. It's obvious, right? The fun, for me, what my brain does
is why is there the disparity to begin with? And that's what I was, you know, trying to like angle at. Um, and yeah, I agree with you, rock, like who cares? Like,
you know, what the race is or anything like that. I mean, I could come up and invoke my race, like,
Oh, what about a pot of water? Me, you know, is it meaningless, meaningless. If you had,
if you had, um, if you had, let's say you had like 30 guys named Bob, all bald, middle-aged white men,
all the same thing, right? Could you say, is there diversity here? Well, you absolutely could. Some
may be Christian, some may be Hindu, maybe some may be atheist, some may be liberal, some may be
Republican, some may be independent. You know, you cannot look at the immutable qualifiers of which you're born with,
how tall you are, how much melanin is in your skin as a useful indicator for what you believe
or utility in any aspect in the market. So for me, I prefer, I just wish to live
mostly in a colorblind city where we just listen to people, we talk to people, and we just understand that, you know, people are different, and that is okay.
There's nothing wrong with that.
We all have our unique experiences.
Natalie, you're putting your thumbs down, and you're putting laughing faces at what he's saying.
So, like, when he, I think a specific comment he just said is be colorblind, and you put a thumbs down.
I don't know if it was to that or something else, but yeah. What's your opinion, Natalie? Being colorblind is, I mean, that's probably
even worse than Diego calling people colored earlier, but like, I just, we all have a
respective experiences and some of us more than others. Like my background heavily informs who I
am as all of us. Like I talked about behavior, not being purely genetic earlier, contrary to
what somebody said. And so like, there are people who have faced an enormous amount of racism in the space there
every time I go to a crypto conference it gets swept under the rug that people are sexually
harassed at these conferences so these things are important whether people if you don't experience
them they may not be important to you but as someone who um I didn't make myself a leader
in the space people like uh they voted me in, sir.
And so I just I think ultimately everybody wants to be a leader, but nobody wants to like hold folks accountable.
And so like these experiences are important. It is important to hold space for people, whether you're Puerto Rican, Dominicana or you come from Jamaica or Africa.
All these things are super important and inform who we are and how we do business
culturally, all these things. And so being colorblind is not going to like solve X. And I
think we need to actually recognize and inform ourselves about people's respective experiences.
And I think I would love for you, hopefully, to go educate yourself about why being colorblind
is actually heavily and extremely
like problematic. And so that's why I did put my thumb down. And I also say to this, I'll land here
and I do have to go for real, is that when I go to these conferences again, and it's 85 white men
on stage, like, what do you think that says to the folks in Latham or Africa or Southeast Asia
who are leading the charge in terms of adoption that my opinion or my experiences or my C-suite level C or whatever is not actually important,
that women don't deserve to be heard on these stages.
And they have the experience.
I keep hearing, like, we can't find women with blah, blah, blah.
There are many women who have executive positions in the space.
There are thousands of women, I think there's like over 10 11 12 000 people in she-fi alone and so there are tons of people and black but three run by um
the homie and so i just there are other groups or whatever that are helping conferences figure out
how to like bring equity to these stages if you're a conference programmer or event producer like
whatever like again you can run your ship however you want to run your ship. I'm not sitting here telling you to better inform yourself or to bring equity to
your stages. You can continue to have 85 white men in the stage. But if we want to evolve as an
industry and a sector and community or whatever y'all want to call this, it's time for us to
really like lean into how do we make sure people are seen in the space?
How do we make sure we center representation?
How do we make sure that women are on the stage?
Because we're in a conversation talking about why do we need women in crypto.
Yeah, I don't hear actively people saying we're doing X, Y, and Z.
We had that conversation with Kaz and Blue earlier.
But in reality, if I look at the industry the last 10 years, it's the same people who are putting women on it's the same people who are built like maggie who are building
these affinity groups it's the same people like michelle who are readily saying hey i would love
for you to be on this grant music panel because the whole bunch of dudes right now like it's the
same people putting battery i mean i i invited both of them by the way yeah i'm not saying you
so i so i am trying and i'm telling you that the reality is it's, it's hard.
I, we tried for a long time to bring women into LDA and it was hard.
It's not, I'm not talking about it. Okay. Well, I don't know. I'm personalizing. I'm just giving
you my experience. You want me to recognize your experience. I'm giving you my experience.
Okay. Go ahead and share. So, um, look, part of it is who does people want to hear talk in the industry
when you're running a conference you're sure we can try our best to make it more diverse and i
think that's a good goal to have but i think being one being aggressive about it like you've been a
little bit aggressive today about it i don't think that's helpful that's a little coding it's what that's a little problematic to say i'm
aggressive you you have been you are i'm assertive i'm assertive okay well they're playing a game of
semantics right no it's not i'm assertive it's very problematic for you to call me aggressive
like i'm not okay i'm sexist now i know this It's easy to me. So if you told me I was aggressive, it's OK. But if I say you're aggressive, then that's a problem.
Did I say that rock? No, you just did. Because I said something and you said that's aggressive.
You're aggressive. You're saying what I did was aggressive.
It's a thing. It never ends because it's compartmentalized. Right. Like I'm Native American.
ends because it's compartmentalized, right? Like I'm Native American. So is there supposed to be
some, you know, are you supposed to take consideration because I have some Native
American DNA inside of me? Am I supposed to consider someone who's short or tall or black
or white or, or have some sort of Asian ethnicity or, you know, from Africa, right? You can go in
endless compartmentalized sub subcategories, right? It, at the end of the way, it's just,
it's just a big wash of nothing, right? It doesn't, at the end of the way, it's just, it's just a big wash of
nothing, right? It doesn't, it doesn't really mean much. It's, and that's the thing is like,
we have to start thinking of each other as equal, right? And when we keep going down this path of
just wanting to break people into categorize them, I mean, I thought that was the whole point is that
we're supposed to think of each other as the same thing as just individuals with your own unique
perspective, or, you know, we don't necessarily care of how other as the same thing, as just individuals with your own unique perspective,
or we don't necessarily care of how much melanin is in your skin
or your accent or necessarily your culture
in so far as what you're personally worth.
Of course, your culture is going to affect your perspective,
and that perspective may have utility in the crypto space, of course,
but it's not your defining feature.
It shouldn't be.
It should be the merit of what you say and what you're capable of.
If that was the case, we would all have equal opportunity, equal access, and that is not
the case in crypto.
And anybody saying anything different either has not experienced that for themselves or
don't live in reality.
And I'm happy to continue the conversation, but I'll say this.
My friend Teepee down there a the most indigenous person i know i'm also indigenous so i just and any opportunity i had for tp or and that's the case for tp as well like she'll
tp will put you on no questions asked but also very one of the most aware people in this space
as to why it's important to say hey like I know you're indigenous and underrepresented in crypto.
And like, here's an opportunity for you. Not because just because you're indigenous, because I also know you've been doing the work.
Also, because I know you're a fire artist. Also, because I know you put other people on and you deserve that access to that space.
And even if you didn't, TV's still going to put herself on.
So it's the same thing with KBOT down there. KBOT's also like somebody who comes from underrepresented communities.
But guess what?
KBOT has been a person who's like, I have an opportunity for you.
Or I know somebody that knows somebody that knows somebody.
The same thing with Jay down there.
Jay is the most putting people on person in this space.
You know, Jay will be like, I have an opportunity.
Or I know somebody that knows somebody.
I know you come from an underrepresented community.
And probably otherwise, you have not gotten access to this stuff.
And I know you put in the work.
I know you have the resume.
I know you have the things on that paper that say, hey, you are ready for this opportunity.
Be prepared to be there.
I got you.
No questions asked.
And didn't even have to say all that, but would do that.
I cannot say the same for a lot of these conference organizers.
And y'all getting caught up in this idea that I'm just like putting black people on these stages just to put them on.
I hear a lot of you projecting stuff onto me and paraphrasing stuff that I said, I'm very clear
about what I said. I shoot straight, shoot straight. Let's underscore that. I'm not aggressive.
I'm very assertive. I come from a certain community and this is the way that we talk.
And my mother talked like this. My grandmother talked like this.
And I'm not aggressive.
But if you want me to be aggressive, that's a whole other space.
So I just wanted to say there are people in this industry who have their resume, who are overlooked, who are not seen.
Because some of y'all do not walk in those spaces.
Some of y'all do not interact with those people.
And I blatantly offer to say, hey, if you want to get people on the stage that have their resume, that have a lot of good shit to say, Kaz alone is a wealth of information.
It shuts it down every stage that she's been on.
Same thing with Blue.
Same thing with Teepee.
Same thing with K-Bot.
Same thing with Jay.
And so I just, I'm saying, hey, like, we don't need to have whoever's the highest person at the company.
Because guess what?
I find a lot of that very boring and monotonous
we need people who light up on these can i say something to you natalie that is it yes ma'am
natalie women who whisper don't get heard and the changes that were made for the women's rights that
we have now today are women who hollered their lungs from the top of the mountains. All right? So you continue to be you.
You continue to have the strong voice that you got.
I believe in you, sister.
Come on back to Jamaica.
I mean, I'll say people that whisper don't get heard, I would say.
But it doesn't mean you have to be like what you're calling assertive, but I think most people would call aggressive. I mean, I I'll just say,
I w I probably wouldn't ask you to speak at one of my conferences, just letting you know,
just because you've been a little bit rude because you are, you don't talk very professionally.
And these are things I look for. So you might take that as I'm some kind of sexist.
I love women. I love women a lot more than I love men. But I mean, yeah, this is maybe it's maybe
it's a stand on what I believe. Now I don't talk professionally. It all refers back to an
oppression. No, no, you're not rude because you're nailing down on what you believe. You're rude
because you're rude. And by the way, a female in the audience just DM me and said she is rude and aggressive a female just said that
I'm not gonna dox who said it
That's something to say to me come come up here to the stage. Thank you
Or it's just an opinion and maybe you should take criticism
Nah, I'm not being rude though, and I won't take that and I won't accept the fact that you think that I'm being unprofessional and you know
reality is that this is what a lot of women that look like me go through in the space we're regularly
called aggressive we're regularly called rude because we put we try to hold y'all accountable
for the beliefs that y'all have and y'all really shared some really nasty nasty nasty perspectives
in the space i have not been called out and i've not been held accountable and yet i'm unprofessional
give me a break.
What do you think?
I'm just, this is really fascinating.
Give me something that you think you could improve about yourself.
Just interesting. You give me something that you should improve upon yourself.
This is not, this is not a minor brand personality test, sir.
Like, like don't call people sexist for, you know,
because when you call someone sexist, you understand that is an incredible.
Have you heard anything that you said today? Yes. I said every word I
said, and I meant every word I said, and I've said, yeah, well, you know, you can, you can
slap a label on me. Like I can slap a label of you being aggressive and belligerent. But
apparently me calling you sign you qualifier means that I'm sexist, right? I wouldn't dream
of saying anything like that without extreme evidence
for the case right well we can't anybody can play the recording back and they can see how they can I
hope they do well this is a fun I just like can I just like divert the conversation into the hateful
part of the conversation to a more deserving thing of hate who the hell keeps inviting sailor to pocket things
like how has he become like the keynote of like all these fucking conferences and like why why is
that like it's funny because it's like sure maybe it's like sometimes the best people do get offered
people do get offered the speaking gigs sometimes they do get to the very top of things um sometimes
it's just like everyone does monkey see monkey do and says oh this guy talks about how bitcoin
is going to the moon i like that and let's have him talk or well i don't really like this guy but
everyone hasn't talked so maybe we should have him talk too and then we get into this uh maybe
poverty of diversity of opinion right and that's the thing is like my you know a lot of
Kate in a lot of ways my face looks a lot more similar to a lot of other people in crypto but
like I don't have a bank account I've lived entirely out of crypto I've not in to get rich
I'm in into the the cypherpunk kind of hardcore use your digital cash without anyone's
permission especially without governments banks and it's kind of a
minority position in which is wild like I don't think that no I think stable
coins could be a useful tool in some cases but they're not they're kind of a
Trojan horse they're not the future I don't and like any time it was kind of funny in like 20 is Joel's Mike sort of
progressively worse yeah I don't know why but anyway I rambled a bunch I should
say the angels is going to do a space I think it's actually started this
now we always like to show that right afterwards and then quick swap as the
aggregated space what is it yes G that's 3 p.m. UTC tomorrow that's a good space
to jump to as well beyond any of you but yeah on I'm kind of stuck in traffic right now but um
yeah so uh and one more thing I like to sort of point out in semi-chill I guess in this
is DAOs you centralized autonomous organizations if it is a DAO if it is those things it's open
to participate to anyone which means anyone can just there is no hierarchy or structure or anything
Anyone can just show up and start being part of being a decision-maker and taking part in things
and it's kind of interesting in like the dashed world over the last five years about a
Massive percentage of the community is now from the Russian-speaking
Part of the world And no one did outreach to this person.
No one talked to them.
No one did any virtue signal or anything.
They just showed up,
and now they literally decide
the most important governance decisions
for the entire network.
And no one gave them permission.
They just showed up,
and then they're part of it now.
And I think that if you have decentralized...
Sometimes if you do have an ecosystem that's not super diverse there's a
million different reasons for that a lot of it might be because it's not
actually sometimes when it is decentralized you will find it find that
more different people are feel free to just show up and participate and when you don't have
those people coming in participating sometimes it's because the system is a lot more centralized than
you think yeah i think that was uh that was uh fair would you say mother you wanted to say something
sorry um nothing about what you're talking about. Just waiting for you to finish, Joelle.
I'm guessing you are done, right?
I want to do what everybody else was doing, which was respectfully say my goodbyes.
I really appreciated my time up here on the stage.
Funny enough, I hold Women Builders of Web3 Spaces on Wednesdays every other Wednesday.
So I just had one yesterday.
So next week there will be none, but the following week there will be.
And Natalie, I hope you can join me in there and all the other women here as well.
Dash, great topic as we can see.
It will always result in a type of a disagreement and or slash, you know, light argument.
That's just how the way that these things goes everybody has
their own very strong assertive you know opinions on on certain things and how certain things should
be said or handled but you know at the end of the day we can't fight that um but what you can do is
just continue to put your best foot forward in this space and be your best self so that you don't
have to tell nobody who you are the best thing thing you can do is show people who you are.
And that's what I aspire to do
while I'm here in crypto and in Web3.
Once again, you guys, go ahead and follow me if you will.
My project is Ugly Duck Society.
It's an NFT project.
If anybody's into that stuff, you could explore it.
Got some great things going on.
But that's it for me, you guys.
I'm out of here.
I had a good time.
Thanks so much
Mother if you'd uh
With this uh woman in crypto space you're doing let me know if you'd like some help bringing more speakers
I I do know a lot of women in space less than I know men
Unfortunately, but would love to help you uh and support on that and I guess I'll just say
I think
I think it's a dangerous thing that's
happening in society right now where it's becoming very much like extreme and polarized and us versus
them and black versus white and male versus female. I just don't think that's a good way for
us to go about this. It creates more tribalism. I think we should try to find ways to be more
loving and be more supportive of each other.
And when we are like, you know, I'll just say when someone criticized me and is like, oh, you know, you're just like some white man.
It doesn't make me want to like be more inclusive.
It'd be like, whoa, I mean, like, screw you.
Kind of like that's your initial response, right?
Just as humans, someone tells you something like that and it makes you feel bad and makes you not want to help them.
So I'm just saying, let's just try to be more loving and inclusive and less about us versus
them.
I'm not saying that anyone was trying to be like that here, but sometimes these conversations
get that way.
And I think it's not productive for us to make the world more inclusive. You know what it is also really quickly,
really quickly. The thing is, is that we all are raised in different ways, right? And we're raised
in the world that we are in, as in anybody of any other color aside from Caucasian. And then
the Caucasians have the world that they're brought up in, know and that's if you're not a redneck in the in a trailer right and even then so it's still kind of
a different world from the projects and stuff like that and I'm not talking about the white ghetto
in the projects because they're kind of just black people too but um that's a little joke but um
but it's definitely perspective of how people are raised and it's hard to come out of that. I really do also hate when race is brought into certain things because
it's like, how do we ever get out of the problem of racism? Um, but it's hard to, to, to brainwash
somebody to reverse brainwash somebody, if that makes any sense. I think that's the best way I
can say that, you know? And so it's just more so like, let's set more educational spaces where we can teach people
like, you know, come out of that thinking process and, and come here, you know, and unfortunately,
it may take a little bit longer to get there. But you know, at the end of the day, it is how people
are raised. So we have the parents to blame and then the ancestors to blame as well.
And that goes all the way around the world, all the way around the board.
It's everybody's fault, how everybody speaks to one another, because it's what we were taught.
It's literally in the DNA, you know.
So can't blame you, Rock, for sounding white.
and I can't blame Natalie for sounding black.
And I can't blame Natalie for sounding black.
It is what it is, you know.
It is what it is, you know?
We just gotta know how to fight
at a certain angle where
you're not talking like as if you're being attacked
because it's not about that.
It's not me.
I'm not being attacked.
This has been going on for hundreds
if not thousands of years.
It's not about me, you know?
So it is what it is at the end of the day, you know, Rock?
But I'm definitely gonna hit you up
in the back end for them ladies.
Well, guys, I really got to run. I'm 16 minutes late to the other space, but cheers. I appreciate
that, Mother. Okay. Love you guys. Bye-bye. Joel, I think it's just you and me now, buddy. I don't
know if we're able to invite new people on the stage. Hey, Nicole are you able to like I think it's probably
good time to wrap it up yeah but it was a really funny if she can't if she can't
answer maybe we'll get randomly rubbed in the space to just go away in the
meantime just thanks everyone for being on this has been very fun I liked I liked it like almost no one
who's typically on this base is here or was here and I liked that I kind of I didn't know where
it was gonna go and I kind of like yeah it was it was one of those things where it's just like
hey why don't we do a space on this so sure, see what happens. And I'm happy the way it turned out. I'm happy. I'm happy for the conflict too a little bit because it's something you don't always hear on the space. And it's just, it's good that it's there. It's kind of almost like a self contradicting thing where it's like, you know, it's definitely not an echo chamber once you have, you know, not echo chamber stuff. So anyway, I just want to say-
Hey, I'm here. I'm here. I'm going to be able to end it.
I love that.
Yeah. I want to thank all the speakers. Yeah. I'm speaking from the Dash account right now.
I'm going to thank all of the speakers and all of the listeners and just say,
BitAngel Space going on right now. If you're into spaces and
you want to connect with some people in there, go on over. And then QuickSwap Space tomorrow,
the aggregated, it is at 3 p.m. UTC and we are talking about DeFi.
Love it. Thank you very much, Nicole. Thank you to all the speakers and to all the listeners.
Everyone take care. Have a blessed day. Bye-bye.
