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$GG launch and Web3 Mental Health on Coffee with Captain @dGenNetwork
Recorded: Dec. 29, 2023 Duration: 2:28:34Space Recording
Full Transcription
I I'm on web 3, and it is what it seems, topping the pyramid schemes, I'm telling you, I'll
sell you a percentage on Nebula.
Shout out to Vince, yo, set it up.
Surfing on the web and I'm shooting at three.
I've been goaded when I got my G.
I'm an alien boy from a different planet, yeah.
So I got my drink.
I'm riding in the 1920s Model T Ford.
Car, era, lore.
Call me Levi playing on the keys, boy.
Then I'm about to put my gloves on.
If I said it, then I meant that. Yeah, I like that one, I'm about to get that
Crash that whip for the drumsticks, whiplash
I'm about to get them all, are you with that?
In a white boat, surrounded by blue
I want one, but I got a cop turned
I wanna fly high in the sky
Arms out wide, tryna soar
From a bird's eye view
I'm on fire, Ricky, Bobby
Crackin' the pavement, Whitney, Bobby
I'm a Saki, bomb Hir pavement Whitney Bobby I'm a sake bomb
Hiroshima Nagasaki Bruce Wayne been a dog and I keep it 101 cuz I'm feeling kind of spotty
sipping on some rock and I'm sipping out octane the only thing around my neck
GM GM drop us a GM in the chat down the bottom right there that purple box
square whatever you want to call it the space is also linked above on the
jumbotron all the way to the right. Appreciate any love on that
one. Likes, retweets, bookmarks, all appreciated. We'll be back here in about a minute or two
and get rolling. We can make a trade, get a memo Reviews not falling for the FOMO Listening to Coffee with Cap'n
You know we were a wide day loco
I ain't never gon' stop rappin'
Orlando, yeah, we workin' magic
We rockin' Ethereum in her teeth
I just went and caught me a half bass
Man, I gotta shout out the boy
Started off with a bit
Now I got coin
I see where y'all goin'
Been poppin' since Web 1
Hella ho, gone Web 2
I was livin' the dream, now I'm on web three
And it is what it seems, top in the pyramid schemes
I'm tellin' ya, I sell you a percentage on Nebula
Shout out to Vince, yo, set it up
Breaking the mood to choose one, but it got knowledge to move, son
I'm shockin' in shades with my brother in shoes
Yeah, them blues, it's comin'
Even though it's hard to pick, eeny, mighty, moe, soda on the mix, no biting lips, it's
time to go.
Index number one, no thumbs up, you gotta scroll, looking at the ghosts in studio, it's time
to go.
Had a helmet on by myself until I met a man that wouldn't have a face off, had to bring
my chainsaw, full ticket gas and a bribe when my brakes off.
I'm A1, but it just kinda stakes.
This episode is brought to you by DGEN Network, the only community-based Web3 media network,
bringing you the very best content in the NFT and cryptocurrency space.
Please visit DGEN.network and check out our other great shows.
That's DGEN, D-G-E-N.network.
Welcome to the future.
Welcome to Coffee with Captain GMGM or GG, more appropriately fitting today.
Excited to dive into it.
The timeline is abuzz.
All things mental health and ketamine therapies and our favorite Web3 founder to talk about.
But more exciting than the news this morning, GG is officially live.
Congrats to the Pixel Vault team.
Reboot is here.
Their fearless leader
GFunk actually welcoming the
latest degen into the world today,
I believe. So big, big day for
GFunk and team and Steve.
I don't even know how to quite
properly explain this.
The show, usually I get started at like 7.59.
I get things fired up.
I just explained, I think yesterday,
about my new robot vacuum cleaner toy.
Well, this is the PSA.
If you're new to the robot vacuum cleaner world,
I had one, I got a Roomba like years ago,
like the OG Roombas.
It was just like very rudimentary and not great.
They've advanced significantly in terms of the AI,
the mapping skills, the auto unload.
It's just, they're very,
a very nice appliance for the home for convenience.
That said, the PSA this morning,
if you have animals,
if you have animals, if you have animals,
before you just let it go on its auto clean or even just hit the clean button,
it's a very important step in the process to make sure you check your floors that one of the said animals didn't decide to take a dump on the floor in the middle of the night
because started the robot and the next thing I'm like, what in the world is that
god awful smell?
I thought someone had died in my house.
Turns out, nope, no one died.
Just poop smeared all over the floor, all through the new robot.
So yeah, I've spent the last, I don't know, 10, 15 minutes cleaning poop out of a robot
vacuum cleaner that, I don't know, I'm more disgusted that I've spoiled my new toy
than the fact that I had to spend time cleaning up poop this morning. But I wish, like, it's one
of those days I wish we had video on us because the look of just absolute disgust. It's not my
cat, not Obi, not my beloved Obi. It's his brother, Chief, who's an absolute disgusting heathen.
Obi, not my beloved Obi.
It's his brother, Chief, who's an absolute
disgusting heathen.
He's scared of the cat door, so
occasionally he'll just poop on the floor.
Usually it's just solid turd. You easily
pick it up and throw it away, but
we may be rehoming a
cat we attempted to foster, I don't know,
six or seven years ago. We gave him
a permanent home, but his days here
may be numbered, Steve.
You could have given me a thousand guesses
on how we were going to start the cold open today,
and I never would have come to this conclusion
by any possible stretch of the imagination.
I might have to take off halfway through the show just to go shower.
I am absolutely repelled by the poop cleaning duties I had this morning.
It's the ultimate backfire of a robot vacuum cleaner.
I'm sitting here ready to give the alpha download on GG,
get into a deep mental health discussion.
Here's the good news.
Number one.
I might need some fucking ketamine therapy after my poop cleaning extravaganza this morning, Steve.
Yeah, no, I think, well, first of all, thank you,
because Mrs. NFT Bark has been trying to break down the barriers
to convince me to get a cat.
So we have a dog, a wonderful Labrador.
Listen, it's fine.
You're sad.
The bestest boy in the whole world.
The error is getting a cat.
Because once you get a cat, you'll likely get talked into another cat,
and then you'll do something stupid like foster some cats that you won't be able to get rid of.
And the next thing you know, you have a full zoo of kittens and cats running through your house.
And they are, like, I love our cats.
But they're like teenagers.
They're like smartasses.
They like talk back to you.
They do shit like shit on your floor.
I can't remember the last time a dog took a shit on my floor, Steve.
No, my dog has never actually done that in his entire Labrador life.
He's the bestest boy.
I did take two weeks off work when we got him,
and so I definitely stepped next to his crate and took him out.
It's in range.
I hire a house cleaner to come clean the shit out of my vacuum cleaner today.
That's the level of... What it sounds like that's that's the level of of what what
it sounds like cap is it's the way your house sounds is that you don't need yes you need a
house cleaner but you need like a crime scene investigation cleaner that like cleans up after a
gruesome murder scene because it sounds you're gonna have to burn your house down but the um
look the the the idea of a cat like i was warming up here's here's my actually it is my true win of
the week and then i'll hand it back to you to talk about your cat.
It's in range.
Had I started the vacuum cleaner even three minutes later than I did,
I'd come in my office, I'd start the show,
and I'd come back out afterwards to this shit smeared over my entire house.
It was refined to one area, but there's a chance.
If I started started a few
just a few minutes later i have shit over my end like not just one section of one room but yet my
entire main living area of my house would have shit smeared all over it like that's that's that's
my win of the week is that didn't happen i caught the the shit vacuum prior to it uh smearing
everywhere yeah no it's it's, first of all,
I think second dogs will end up getting,
so checkmark there.
That sounds good.
And yeah, to your point about the cats,
I mean, I've always had cats my whole life.
They've actually been relatively behaved,
but actually Mrs. NFT Bark,
the way that I ended up with a cat in the first place,
my own cat, not just the ones I grew up with,
was Mrs. NFT Bark got this cat actually
from like a barn, which he was way too fancy for a barn. He was very handsome, very nice for,
never would have made it in the barn. So she saved him. Her sister then said, I want one too.
And irresponsibly went out and got a cat without really thinking through it. Just kind of like
the parents are like, okay, you get a cat too. Turns out neither of those cats were spayed nor neutered. So suddenly we had a ton of kittens.
And when I met Mrs.
NFT Bark,
the thing when we were 16 that we would go over to her house for was the
fact that she had just a litter of adorable kittens.
One of which ended up becoming my cat later on.
Then of course we brought her barn cat down.
So we had two for a long time.
Haven't for a while.
I will say though,
your affinity for the cats is good because it explains exactly why I am here. As I always make the analogy, I was a feral
cat. You kept feeding. I kept showing up to stage. You gave me co-hosts. It was like, so your nature
and how you treat your cats that show up, but I will say I have never shit on the floor of this show. Not once. So I'm a good cat.
But yeah, no, it's definitely not how I expected to open today.
I'm not surprised the cat shit is what invoked Riggs on the stage, though.
I don't think Riggs has a cat.
Maybe he does.
Do you have a cat?
Yeah, you have a cat.
Oh, yeah, I have two cats.
Oh, yeah.
Riggs is a big, big time cat. Do you have a robotic vacuum?
Have you ever dealt with the cat peeping in the vacuum?
Not the cat poo, but vomit.
I have a cat that vomits a lot.
Coincidentally, Chief, the cat who shits all the time, also vomits all the time.
This happens probably once a week.
What do you guys feed your cats?
I get up.
My morning routine, I wake up at four in the morning.
It's called hairball, bro.
I go out, sit on the couch.
I plop down on the couch, the L-shaped portion of it.
I plop my laptop on my lap, and I start degening.
About once every other week, I will then, after a few seconds after sitting down,
realize I've sat in cat vomit.
The cat knows where I sit in the morning, and it's dark out.
I don't
want to wake anyone up by flowing the light so it's either I step in cat vomit or I sit in cat
vomit about once every other week it's like this shows you how good of a person I am that she still
has a home in my house so I one of my cats who by the way he's like the most regal incredible cat
ever I rescued him from my father same chief is like a dapper like belongs in a
movie super soft fur he looks like a movie cat but he is just dumb he's like dur he poops everywhere
he he pukes everywhere but he's because he's so freaking cute we can't get rid of him well see
see here's the challenge right when they weren't when they were outdoor cats which this one i
rescued was an outdoor cat prior to bringing him inside and now being a New York apartment cat.
Right. He can be a dick, but he's not a dick to me.
But if my wife, if Mrs. Riggs is here, there's been moments where like literally he'll get up from sitting like on my lap.
He'll go over to another chair. You'll hear him like start scratching his paws like oh are
you gonna lay down he'll stare back at mrs riggs and go take a shit and i'm like what did you just
fucking do like you're what an asshole what an asshole but cat steve don't get it twisted i'm a
dog person i'm a cat part i'm an animal person it doesn't matter what animal cats are fantastic they just
have some weird quirks man it's and don't act like dogs don't in the house at times
they don't piss in the house at times and dogs vomit too i've had plenty of dogs so it's all
animals are animals they're helpless they're innocent they're the they're the great yeah i
mean don't but there there is an absolute difference here.
As someone who's had a zoo for...
I mean, eight years plus,
we've had multiple animals,
including dogs and cats in the house.
We have three dogs, four cats
was the peak of the zoo.
Dogs are truly like a man's best friend.
They're loving.
My dogs would never... If a dog made an accident in the house, he would like feel sad. He would
look at me. The cat is taunting me right now. The cat is, is like proud chef puffed out that he,
that he pooped in the corner and I didn't see it in the vacuum smeared over. Like the cat is like
taunting me because he got one over on me. The dog would be embarrassed, like tail tucked and,
and, and grounding himself. Yeah. Like my embarrassed, like tail tucked and grounding himself.
Yeah, like my dog like would apologize and learn how to speak English just to apologize to me.
If given the opportunity, if he puked or peed or pooped in the house, which he is maybe puked once or twice in four years, has never pooped in a house. And I think we've had
one pee in the house out of him
the entire four years we've owned him. We also watched, like we were, I mean, we are like,
I did dog ownership the same way I do everything else in life. I went hard as fuck in the paint.
So like that dog, like I said, I mean, two weeks sleeping next to his crate, every time he needs
to go to the bathroom, I slowly open up the house. I actually did a diagram before we got the dog of how we would open up the house
based on gates to ensure that he understands his expanded living space.
Did training with him.
So by 10 weeks old, he was using a potty belt.
My kids weren't using a potty belt at 10 weeks old.
My kids were shitting in diapers.
So 10 weeks old, using a potty belt, ready to go.
He could sit, stand down, roll over all that good stuff. So in any case, he's a good boy. And if we get
another one, it's going to be another good boy or girl. I think dog is what I've been convinced
of this morning. So this is a good, I don't even know how we segue into NFTs for this.
Have you ever had two dogs?
I know. This is my first dog i've ever had
of any ever so i do first off i love training dogs uh it's like one of my favorite things in
the world uh but i like to train animals as well like i've trained my cats to do crazy shit like
i actually have a leash and take one of my cats this is why real quick this is why we're friends
like this is exactly it like i trained my cat to like sit give paw and speak when i when i had a cat it was you know they can do lots of stuff
they're smart enough if you if you bond with them a hundred percent i will tell you i got i had a
dog and he was incredible i had him fully trained same thing as you i get a second dog sitting and
oh no big deal the second dog had a harder time
training and actually caused the first dog to regress. So you had to go back through training
the first dog and it might not always happen, but just be prepared. Just because you have one dog
fully trained, you may end up having to do second training on the second dog due to this. So they can rub off on each other.
So it's not as simple.
It's like, I mean, I don't have children.
You all know me.
I don't have fucking children.
But I've been told, like, oh, I got one kid.
I can just have two kids.
No, it's not the fucking same.
It's not the same.
There's more responsibility, more energy, more chaos, but it's also way more love and just so much fun when all the animals are just laying all over you. It's fantastic.
All right. Well, I mean, look, look, I'm thinking dog is probably the direction I'll end up going versus cat. So I think we're well decided there.
But I think the way you described it actually was perfect with kids because, you know, we had our first kid and we're just like, God, we're parents.
This is so fucking easy.
Look how good we are, all this.
And then you have a second kid and you're like, holy shit, it's completely different than the first.
Also, now we can't divide all of our attention to one single child.
So everything gets really, really hard, which I imagine is very similar with dogs.
I actually get, I'll be honest, like you were making the analogy to kids.
I actually get upset at people who get upset about that analogy.
Cause people were like,
having a pet's not like a kid.
I'm like,
really?
Cause I've had cats,
I've had dogs and I've had kids.
And to me,
it's like,
you,
you have a family member you love,
you care about.
And there's a lot of analogies to be made there.
And like,
people will be like,
you're dead.
And your dog is not your kid.
Like people say that.
I'm like,
I would disagree strongly having all of the above.
They're absolutely my children.
They will only be my children.
Fuck them.
If they want to tell me that, come at me, bro.
Quick, my bad, Mike Rowe.
Yes, it is the holiday season.
Many of our regulars who might listen on the drive to work or back
or have their headphones in might be home with little ears.
Kids, we're
not we're not killing any animals here the the poop our our cats have just smeared all over my
floor we we still love them we're not we're not giving them away and uh uh yeah earmuffs this is
a uh uh occasionally the the poop stories uh in some explicit language may it may may seep out on
the show but my apologies to your little.
Cap, did you not litter box train your cats?
Oh, yeah.
No, they're litter box trained.
We have a, you know, the litter is not even in the house.
The litter is out in the garage.
Like, they go through a door in the garage.
Like, so the litter situation is under control.
Three of the four cats have no problem pooping in the litter box. It's just one that he, like, selectively chooses when he wants to go through the trouble of getting his fat ass out the cat door.
So it's a lazy cat situation.
Fat butt, yeah.
I've been really trying to figure it out.
Because my cat never does that.
Yeah, he'll throw a hairball.
I think you guys call it vomit.
But to me, a hairball.
My cat throws up hairballs once in a while.
Yeah, but if you've never owned a cat hairball, it's vomit. It's gross like my cat throws up hairballs once in a while yeah but if you've never owned a cat a cat hairball it's it's vomit like it's gross like it's not just hair it's it
is disgusting stomach innard stuff if you have given a cat wet cat food and then it like eats
it too fast and throws it up yes absolutely that's that's vomit okay like there's a total difference
i had a cat that was very sensitive and And, like, sometimes if you guys find that, like, your cats, you know, throw up a lot with dry food, it's because it's, like, very thick and rough.
I had a cat that she couldn't eat dry food, so we had to get her wet food.
And every once in a while, she would just scarf it down.
Like, it did not process or anything.
And it's just all over our white carpet.
So it is absolutely not the best.
But I got to say, I think cats are amazing. And I think like, it's so much easier to know, Hey, I don't have to go out and get up at
three o'clock in the morning to take him for a walk anywhere. Uh, he is independent all on his
own. But like, I think a lot of people believe cats are independent. They're not, it's just like
how you train and interact with them. Like as a kid and I played with my cat a lot I interacted with him a lot. I you know talked to him
So now as he's older he does respond and he's very cuddly and he's all over me
And a lot of people like I think miss that part
You kind of got to be affectionate with with them when they're young so that they train early
This is my bold take cats are way smarter than dogs people might dispute this because all dogs are so intelligent
I mean, I've had I've had very intelligent.
I've had golden retrievers, which are smart.
I've had German Shepherds.
I had a Rottweiler-German Shepherd mix.
It was super intelligent.
Cats are so smart, they can play dumb.
Like cats are...
A smart cat has a ridiculous level of intelligence.
Like they know exactly what they're doing.
Like a dog, I don't... Like a dog level of intelligence. They know exactly what they're doing. A dog can understand commands.
A cat can understand the human psyche.
I'm not kidding.
My cat is taunting me right now.
He knows exactly what he's doing,
and he knows that I'm also not going to do anything about it.
Cats are extremely intelligent.
Cats understand physics.
They've figured out that cats understand the laws of physics
and know when they knock that glass cup off the counter,
they are knocking a glass cup off the counter.
And what's going to happen with it?
They've actually proven this out with cats.
I'm going to, okay, a couple things here.
Last thing on Des, the smart cat.
One of our cats actually sits at the table with us.
This is probably going to get me all the hate,
but this is going to lead to my ketamine
therapy here. Dez, our
oldest cat,
is the smartest of the bunch. She's the one that spends
half his day outside. He just roams
the neighborhood and then comes back. He
has his own chair. He sits at the table with us
and eats like a human off a plate.
Yeah, this is
been an enlightening conversation this morning.
I will say, at least for me, when it comes to dogs,
I always used to say I prefer cats to dogs,
they're independent, I can leave them with food and water,
they poop in a box, my life is easy, all this other stuff.
I wouldn't trade taking my dog out in the morning, at night,
whatever it is is for the world
i actually love those moments because he's like fuck yes dad let's go on an adventure together
we're gonna explore outside like this is awesome like it is the greatest thing ever so uh and i
don't think you can beat anything as much as i love my cats like traveling with a dog is my
favorite thing like i gotta do it for a couple years with my guy coop who his life with me was
way too short one of my favorite coop momentsop moments, we've traveled, truly traveled probably 50,000 miles.
He'd stay in hotels with me. One hotel, I stopped, go to the hotel, had to go run and grab something
real quick, come back. I kid you not, he was a huge 120-pound Rottweiler mix. He had the hotel
doors that you can flip the switch.
He actually jumped up, flipped the switch,
so he locked himself in the hotel room.
I had to go to Home Depot, get a screwdriver,
and break into my own hotel room
during one of my travels with Coop.
Excellent.
No, that's great.
I was changing the show title,
so I'm going to stay off mute while I do that
and edit it again once it goes up.
But look, I...
Steve's making sure my day job doesn't fire me with goes up. But look, um, I see Steve's making
sure my day job doesn't fire me with the title. Thank you. Yeah. I'm good. I have a car. I'm a
card carrying citizen here in the state of Florida, but I don't think, I don't know if that,
I don't know where ketamine falls under, uh, our corporate, uh, HR policy. Yeah. I've not, I've,
I've, I was, it was a joke. I've never tried ketamine. I guess it's good for mental health.
I, I, I will, uh, I'll check my HR policy before I...
I didn't do it for therapeutic purposes, but I will say ketamine definitely has its impacts.
But this was, I would say, like before. And it's interesting to see as of late, like kind of this.
I think mushrooms has also kind of like had a revitalization of like therapeutic benefits but i remember
10 years ago special k was uh not a therapeutic drug the way it is today well i mean the problem
is and i i don't want to go down the drug rabbit hole too hard is that there's stigmatization
around substances in general which is like you know the fact that things like mdma can be used
for um uh post-traumatic stress disorder,
the fact that you have people who like the success rate of mushrooms for people doing
things like quitting smoking and other habits much, much higher.
The fact that, you know, they've done sort of therapy on terminal cancer patients with
things like psilocybin and seen a complete reduction in any fear of death whatsoever,
but because they're substances that are stigmatized, we can't use them.
Those things I think we run into a lot.
I'm going to hard pivot us out of this, though,
because we are far past the cold open.
Where do we go, though?
Do we go cats?
Do we go mental health?
Do we go GG?
I'm curious where Steve pivots us to.
The bridge between dogs, cats, and drugs was like six feet long.
Steve is not having it.
Yeah, we're – yeah, go ahead go ahead yeah we could we can find yourself a show that can fit all that into a cold open though i i would
in 24 minutes pretty pretty impressive um yeah i the dog cat conversation uh it's too early to
to dive in especially i'm outnumbered. Rig, stoop.
Poppy has to be a dog guy, right? You're a dog guy.
I've got four Frenchies.
Terrible decision, by the way.
It's too many.
So dogs become not so great when you have more than two, I would say.
Anything.
Anything more than two.
It's like my kids.
It's like, no offense to anybody who has multiple kids, but I got two.
I got a boy and a girl. I got one of each flavor. We're riding. We're good. Look,
let's do this. We're going to pivot hard out of this one, and we're going to head ourselves into
GG to start the day. Then we're going to go a little bit of mental health. I may sneak out the
back door after an hour on the show or so just because I'm last day in paradise. I'm going to
go spend some water slide time with
the family. I want to talk a little bit of Gigi because this has been a long time coming and I
think it's important. Give us a like, a retweet, a comment down below to get the room going because
we actually are going to talk Web3 despite the fact that this stage took a figurative crap all
over the cold open with the cat stuff. We're going to keep this thing moving forward.
So for people who don't know,
Gigi officially launched today from Reboot.
It is the native token to the Reboot ecosystem, and it is the consolidation in a long time coming
of something I'm very proud to be a little bit of a part of
as a collaborator with Pixel Vault.
So if people aren't familiar with Pixel Vault,
they cooked back in the day.
Innovative initial launch of punks comics one
which was uh the opportunity to own fractional shares of crypto punks and if you're in the web
three space you know crypto punk not a cheap asset sort of a grail thing to own i was never
going to be able to own one still haven't been able to buy one it's like one of those moments
where i'll know i've made it when i buy a crypto punk um i think we saw that recently actually
with locksley who was on yesterday when he bought a CryptoPunk.
It's one of those things you do when you're like,
I made it.
I can be, you know, this is something in this space
I'm able to do that is an important thing.
So, you know, in any case,
I wasn't going to be able to own one.
So I bought this comic,
which you would stake over time
to get fractional shares of CryptoPunks.
As time went on, they introduced game theory,
sort of the first real mint pass.
So now we take advantage of a burnable asset that gets you another asset.
But at the time, they introduced this Game Theory where you hold it for the opportunity to win something,
or you burn it for the opportunity to get what was at the time of Metahero, went to Inhabitant, back to Metaheroes.
So here we are.
What ended up happening, and I'm going to end up moving everything to my hot wallet except my Punks comic,
because that is a Grail collectible that I want to own, is over time, the regulatory
environment changed.
And one of the things I really respect is Pixel Vault did this giant $100 million raise.
And a lot of people said, like, oh, well, what are they actually doing here?
And people called it a rug.
They went after G-Funk.
They went after the team.
One of the things I respect more than anything is those who continue to build in this space
regardless of how things go.
And what we saw with G-Funk, and we had the opportunity to hang out with him
and talk a lot about this at VCon, was they weren't going to just give up and throw in the towel,
which they could have said, failed business, calling it a day, that's it.
They continued to build, but part of the challenge of building was they had a gazillion NFTs in this ecosystem.
There were planets.
There were the meta heroes.
There was the punks comics, punks comics one, punks comics two.
There was all sorts of pieces within this ecosystem.
Pow and punks, a couple of different tokens.
Punks being what you got for the fractional punks.
Pow.
I've purchased merchandise with those tokens,
which I'd have to do the math on what I actually paid now for those hoodies and things
because sheesh, you know, would have loved to exchange those nowadays.
But point being, they had a bunch of NFTs,
and what they're doing is they started building a reboot, an entire gaming protocol.
We've had Goose on the show to talk a little bit about what they're building there.
Battle plan, the first game getting set to launch in just about a week and a half.
And as they were starting to bring this thing together, they needed to consolidate all these assets.
And in one of the more clever ways, these assets are being consolidated into GG, the native token within this ecosystem.
So there's claim sites that you can do, which I could post at the top if you own these assets to see exactly how much you're entitled to.
you can do, which I could post at the top of you own these assets to see exactly how much you're
entitled to. But effectively, one power is getting you, I think like 0.41 GG and one punks, I think
is getting you 0.75 GG. So that exchange rate gets you into that ecosystem there. And then over time,
and again, a lot of things have a Ponzi, you know, these Ponzi nomic elements to it, where
to it where you end up, you know, just cashing out a token. It's like, here's a free token. Let's go.
you end up, you know, just cashing out a token. It's like, here's a free token. Let's go.
They vest over the course of a year, two years over these time periods. And of course, one of
the really cool mechanics they threw in is if you just want to unlock 25% of your tokens instantly,
well, you can do that, but that means you have to burn your planet. It's irreversible. That's
the end of it. You get 25% of your allocation. The other 75 goes in the community pot.
So there's different ways people are playing this right now, different exchange rates,
but it is launched today.
So if you are in that world, first of all, building an actual product that is going to
be viable products for public, when you saw the play testing, tons of hours, tons of hours
in average gameplay.
Two, if you're looking for the token and you have these assets in your wallet, again, my
strategy, as I understand it, hopefully I'm not wrong on this,
but as I understand it,
as long as I move everything over to my hot wallet,
I'm good to go on that to vest in that one
because that's the one I plan to vest in over time.
That's where I have my punks and my POW.
So I'll be moving planets, et cetera.
Everything that I have over there,
I have four or five planets.
And you have a lot of ways you could play it.
You could rip your GG from one of your planets and keep it.
You could rip your GG from all of your planets. You could just vest over time. I think a lot of ways you could play it. You could, you know, rip your GG from one of your planets and keep it. You could rip your GG from all of your planets.
You could just vest over time.
I think a lot of people I've talked to, which is interesting, are playing long game,
just betting that this protocol can revolutionize the way we play games.
There's a lot of gaming tokens out there.
So that is the high level of it.
The TLDR is, look, there's some really good threads on this.
I think Legendary had my favorite one.
So I'll see if I can dig that one up because he had one of my favorite ones where he explained the entire history of Pixel Vault
as well as the GG token far more eloquently than I did just now.
But long story short, major launch day for them.
Major launch day for them in a week and a half.
Long time coming.
Super proud of that team because, again, I cannot emphasize enough.
How many times do we see things?
We'll get to the sort of the Kevin Rose mental health health stuff but you know people who are you know struggling having
those issues and we've seen it with g funk but a lot of people don't get off the mat a lot of
projects die a lot of people rug they kept grinding back and have a completely different product that
they have pivoted to from day one but here they are uh running around uh cap thoughts i i think
no i'm really excited about GG.
I took the long route on my planets and my PAL.
Both have been claimed in...
Staking, I guess, isn't the right word,
but I guess all my GG is locked up
and I'm in for the two-year drip.
Steve, I also think,
we'll probably weave back and forth here,
but I think it's a good,
I don't know exactly where the mental health conversation
is going to take us.
I don't want to bash on K. Rowe by any means
that mental health is very serious.
I am probably somewhere between your post yesterday
and some of the others who have taken a hard stance.
I don't think that's appropriate.
But where I wanted to go with that is I think it really,
there's a comparable here,
looking at what the trials, the tribulations,
what Pixelvault went through,
put their heads down, built, chipped,
where they're at now compared to the Moonbirds arc.
And again, this isn't to attack K-Row,
I'm sure, I am
positive G-Funk had some
tough moments during the last couple
years where he was getting
attacked in the timeline, and to your point,
they could have just decided to
throw in the towel and not
ship anything, just to pivot, pivot, pivot, and not really
ever take a shot out of fear of it not working.
Here they are.
So I think that is something worth acknowledging,
the years of effort,
really excited about the protocol itself.
And before I turn it back to you,
I don't know how we didn't get to this.
This was the title we missed, Steve.
In fact, I may have to have another cat robot incident sometime
just so we can call it Catamine with Captain.
I don't know how we didn't land on Catamine.
Von Fronten wins the chat once again.
It was there right in front of us staring at us the whole time,
and we failed to connect the two dots.
But yeah, it's Catamine with Coffee this morning,
or it's Catamine with Captain this morning.
Yeah, it's certainly a...
Yeah, well, I think the point you're making there,
first of all, because I don't know that there's a lot...
My point is I want to try to attempt to take you
as far back of the actual conversation,
as far away from it as possible,
and then let you attempt to get us back on point.
Well, I think your point about GG is there isn't as much...
First of all, again, celebratory day,
excited for what the Pixel Ball team has done again like this is going to sound like i always think it's weird because
like i i love i love the word proud but sometimes i've said it and people are like who are you to
tell me you're proud of me and i'm like okay like it was trying to supposed to be a compliment
um but proud as hell of that pixel vault team for exactly the reasons you said because i know there
were dark times,
and I know there was a period of time that, you know,
as we've spoken with G-Funk and others about what they went through,
and I know that they kind of refocused,
and seeing them get back on track to what they're looking for,
and again, knowing who that team is, is incredible.
Because they, you know, and I always said, you know,
I know VGF is a regular here.
You know, I see him down there. It's a homie that we were lucky to see in miami and kind of grab the
way that's the oh that's the sole reason i let you cook there i it took all the willpower i had
not to blurt out katamine as soon as i saw von front dropping the chat like i i held that inside
of me for about three minutes while you were cooking steve yeah no and i look at i look at
like people like you know that team and when i talk to like vgF and VCon, I'm like, why do you believe it?
And you're like, you know, and it's like you have G-Funk being like, I'm back on my Kobe shit.
You know, he's a big Lakers fan, and he's like, job's not finished.
Keep on grinding.
And it's like, I imagine it's like nobody wants to go through the trials and tribulations.
And we will get into the mental health stuff because I've dealt with it.
Other people have dealt with it.
It's something that's stigmatized, not talked about enough.
And I think there is a fine balance to be had here with everything that's going on with
KRO.
But I will say this, like, I think a lot of us have been through it.
And even though you never want to go through it, like failure and downs are an inevitable
part of life.
And the victories are so much sweeter.
Nobody just wins forever, right?
Like you look at like the best, you know, greatest athletes in history. You look at like
the Michael Jordans of the world who, you know, were cut from a high school basketball team and,
you know, lost to the Orlando magic in the first round of the playoffs when he came back,
um, you know, from, uh, from, uh, from going to baseball and then coming back and winning
three more titles. You know, you look at people like Kobe who were questioned, can you win without Shaq? And then does it do, he ends up doing it.
You'll go LeBron James can't win, can't win, can't win until he does. Um, and so you look at the
greatest athletes and that's just in basketball alone. Right. So you look at some of the great
Peyton Manning couldn't win the big one until he did twice. And so I think that there's like a lot
of like stigma around those sorts of things,
messy world cop, like the things that he's able to pull off. And so I think everybody goes through
those and do you want to know, but it is part of life. And it's one of the things that makes me
really proud of this pixel ball team is that they went through it. They were the highest of the
high at the top of the mountain mountain. And frankly, like I have made, you know, when they
were cooking, it's one of the ones I actually decided to ring the register on frankly like i have made you know when they were cooking it's one of
the ones i actually decided to ring the register on so i have made more money off pixel vault than
probably anything this side of board api club in the space they were the highest of the high adidas
board api club punks comics all those things then they were about the lowest of the low and everybody
was like this is a rug and they're just printing more money. And oh, G-Funk's buying a house with the money he earned. How dare he? And then here we are once
again, right back around with them launching a product. I got to imagine it makes it so much
sweeter. And again, I want to be clear about this. Like I've been saying for a long time,
one of the cool parts about the next bull market as we've been waiting for it, even in the bear,
is we will have good people ready to onboard the masses,
ready to actually have real products, real viability,
real use of the blockchain.
That is what this is.
When I explain GG, when I explain Reboot
to my friends who are gamers who play, you know,
StarCraft, World of Warcraft,
all the other games online together,
they get what they're building
and understand the viability of why this is necessary.
So love to see it.
And we'll get into the mental health stuff for sure, because I think it's an important
conversation to have in a nuanced way. Like to your point, Cap, my take wasn't necessarily
like that, like we can't critique or have conversations about whether it's an excuse
or whatever. My conversation is you don't dox people's house purchase. You don't threaten
people. You don't tell people like, you know, you don't call people. You don't dox people's house purchases. You don't threaten people. You don't tell people that, you know, you don't call people.
You don't get downright nasty to human beings, especially a team that just happens to be
working there, you know, and some of the stuff you see there, like I have people in my mentions
being like, oh, I don't, I don't know what you're talking about.
All these things that Kevin Rose is going through.
I'm like, well, just go to JJ's page.
Right.
And it's like, I'm not trying to like get on like the, it's just, but like, you know,
JJ's made a personality out of, you know, going after Kevin Rose. I get it. Like had a bad
experience. Moonbirds has the gold bird, whatever. I'm not getting into that discussion of like,
who's, you know, on the argument side there. But if you go to the page and look at the retweets
alone and the replies or the replies to even my tweet, you'll see people being like, oh,
they don't need sympathy. They belong in jail. And I'm like, oh, could we name all of the things they've done to belong
in jail? Funny, nobody can.
So I think, I just want to just, like, put
a pin in saying, like, there's probably
two sides of this story that we should be discussing.
It's okay to have a nuanced conversation.
I don't think 280
characters is nuanced
enough to have a mental health conversation.
But that said, I want to kick it over to Riggs.
I saw Riggs' hands fly up.
Riggs has had quite his own story arc with the Moonbirds.
GM, sir.
GM, GM.
I actually want to talk on GG for a second.
Because unlike you, Steve, I did not ring the register with Pixel Vought.
I doubled, tripled, quadrupled down at PicoTops.
doubled, tripled, quadrupled down at PicoTops.
And I went through my, I'll call it lack of,
I'll call it a hatred of G-Funk at one time.
That's the exact word I was going to use.
I was going to use Riggs' hatred cycle.
Yeah, and I was probably one of the biggest
futters of Pixel Vault for quite some time.
But there was one thing that i want the reason
i'm sharing this is to give a counter view of someone like you steve that that did make money
but still has tremendous respect what they did i'll talk about vgf first because vgf and i
never had issues he and i sat down at several in real life events, had fucking real conversations back and forth.
He listened.
He heard.
He had different counter arguments for what we were talking about and what they were building.
I didn't necessarily care at the time because I was venting, but I respected VGF for doing that.
But I respected BGF for doing that.
Then, I mean, I spent four hours sitting right next to G-Funk,
who probably is, by the way, the one who invited me to that event, Steve, at VCon,
is probably thinking, oh, shit.
I just invited fucking Riggs to drink and hang out with me in a small venue uh for several hours what the fuck's gonna
go down it could have got ugly rigs could have got ugly at one of those stops we were taking
tequila shots it could have gotten ugly oh god the fucking tequila shots were brutal uh but no
we had great conversations right and he listened and he changes a choice right take away the mental
health conversations because we'll get into that in a minute. And I've got some takes on that because I've gone through my own very challenging mental health issues in my days. And so I've got some empathy and thoughts on that. with people that are your butters or your you know it's like your negative review people
is critically important and then you can start to get to the human element right and and we're
ultimately all humans here and we should treat each other as so and so i was respectful in the
conversations of course i made some jokes and ribbed on him some. And he took it and came back at me, right?
And so we became friends at that point.
I don't have a huge Pixel Vault bag.
I don't have a huge GG bag.
But I'm excited for what they're doing.
And I'm proud of the fact that they've battled through this stuff
and continued to build.
And I think they're going to go on to do some really cool things.
Does that mean all- time highs again for stuff?
Will GG take off and moon?
I don't fucking know.
Nobody does really.
But the reality is they didn't take the hundred million and run.
They're continuing to build here.
They're continuing to work with different chains and ultimately push the tech forward.
So I'm really proud of that.
And so I'll pause there because Q and I's hands actually went up at the same time.
I do want to get into some of the mental health conversations and ultimately the viewpoints I have on that.
But I wanted to pass it over to Q or. you know, buying in at a higher price on these two collections we've been talking about,
both Pixel Vault and Moonbirds, and seeing how both the communities and founders have
rode through the ups and downs of this.
I mean, it's been an extremely volatile, violent couple of years.
And to see how they weathered the storms differently, I think, is pretty interesting.
Q, GM, thanks for joining us.
Yeah, GM.
Reece, what do you mean they didn't take the $100 million and run?
I'm not talking about proof.
I'm talking about Pixelmob.
Exactly.
So what do you mean they didn't take the $100 million and run?
Meaning they didn't rug the project.
Oh, rug.
Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They didn't just run away with the money. They didn didn't rug the project oh rug sorry yeah yeah yeah they didn't
just run away with the money they didn't just rug the project they didn't stop building they
continued to focus and ultimately listen to their community work along with their community
and now they're building and the comeback story is going to be sweet is what what i'm saying yeah
i mean the thing is um you know i have a mental problem but i've got
to say um i um listened to uh coffee with captain yesterday um with farok and i did make a comment
on what steve posted which is basically you know i said you that, you know, all founders have problems.
And Farrakh on this show yesterday talked about his dark period and, you know, the way the community came at him and whatever it is.
And also with G-Funk.
And everybody's different.
Everybody deals with it in a different way.
And I think, you know, the bottom line of what I said
was that some people can't cope
and some people make it something that defines them.
I mean, Ray from Meme Land or, you know,
was it Nine Gags? Nine G was it nine nine guys yeah he said something
that i've never forgotten you know which is that um we're in a space where we actually pay to learn
so he bought a lot of nfts and some of them were rugs some some of them were good. You know, he learned about tokenomics from, you know,
yoga and stuff like that.
So we're all paying to learn.
Well, I am as a collector.
So where's my mental problem?
My mental problem is I have to keep asking myself,
you know, you buy Pixel Vault at the right time.
You buy Moonbirds at the right time. You buy Moonbirds at the right time. You buy Bored Apes or Collect at the right time. You buy all these NFTs at the right time. You're still holding them. Right. You had every opportunity. Every, you know, even Candice would say to me, sell, sell, sell. Right. But you're still holding them.
me sell sell sell right but you're still holding them now why am i holding them d gods you know
well you know um because part of it is like say with g funk i was so fascinated with what pixel
vault did in the first cycle you know they they they i i had no understanding of d5 I had no understanding of DeFi. I had no understanding of whatever.
I got into Pixel Vault through VGF, actually,
because I used to see VGF in Clubhouse.
And I used to love his takes and, you know, video game freaks.
And he's talking about gaming and how gaming was going to change this and that.
And then, you know, I see him suddenly working with Pixel Vault.
Then we got Beanies there and G-Funk's there. And they come up with Burning and Staking and all these new
innovative things that the space hasn't seen. And then, you know, a billion dollar valuation or
whatever. And then they're working with Adidas and BoardApes. So for me, you know, I stick with it or I stuck with it,
which is my fault because I'm so interested
in this new business paradigm and these founders.
And I didn't come from a trader's mentality.
And if I did come from a trader's mentality,
you know, I could have done better than I did.
But I don't feel as if I've done badly because I'm still learning.
And so with GFunk and with GG and Reboot and everything like that, I'm looking at it once again as a wonderful opportunity to say okay what's going
to happen now because i saw what they did first cycle and whatever so basically i'm saying that
sometimes those that don't sell when they could sell get into what you've described um rigs you
know quite honestly like a hate a feeling of hate and then those that buy at
the top of the of the cycle who are most probably because i remember when proof passes were like
so it's not just moonbirds you know in terms of kevin but we can get into that i remember when
proof was like 60 ethan 100 100 yeah i didn't even want to say that because I wasn't sure.
Yeah, 100 ETH.
And then like now, what is it?
Two, three, four?
You know, I remember when Jack bought Proof.
I think maybe at 16 or something like that.
And, you know, so I think it's, so I think it depends on your cycle as a collector, a trader, or what you're trying to understand, like, you know, with Steve's book.
If you, you know, OK. Cairo is a completely different experience from Luca, from Farrakh.
Right. Because that's that whole venture capitalist kind of approach. And whether
you listen to people, or whether you say, this is what I say and goes, and also, I'm just going to
make it really short. I mean, you know, for him as an investor, or as a founder, he sees Uber,
puts money into it, sees this thing, puts money into it. He doesn't have to talk to Captain and Steve. He doesn't have to justify himself to any of us. So what are you lot every minute asking me to come
on Twitter for and justify myself to you when I make billions or millions or calls here? But it's
a different thing here. So yeah, so I think for founders like G Funk, for me, it's another chapter in terms of
business and entrepreneurship and leadership. And I think this space redefines your character or
makes you see who you are, both as a collector and as a trader in ways that you maybe never
experienced anywhere else before I'm done talking.
Steve, I also think it's a,
it's a great example of expectations and setting proper expectations.
I, at the, at the root of all this,
I think that that's where I keep going back to is, you know,
I saw some people like, Oh, like it's your fault.
If you bought a moon birds for a hundred K and like,
I didn't buy a moon birds for a hundred K.
I did buy one on secondary market the day of mint it was still to this day it's my largest
nft purchase of all time i did it based on expectations that were set by kevin and that team
nearly all of which got shelved or did not come to fruition like and and so like while
i take mental health very seriously there's no place for character
assassination, death threats, personal attacks, et cetera.
At the same time, I do feel accountability is a thing and founders in this space should
be held accountable.
Like, I don't think the mental health card should be used as a free pass to get away
from responsibilities that come with expectations that were set.
And so like I like that's why I said, I kind of think I'm probably somewhere between your
comment, your thread yesterday and some that are bashing him.
I don't think the bashing, Kevin, or certainly not the team is appropriate.
I also don't like the victim card.
Like, woe is me because times got tough and we pivoted and didn't deliver several things that our holders, our collectors were looking forward to.
Like, I think that's what I take issue with is I don't know as if we've heard like an apology yet from Kevin.
I don't know if we've heard any signal of, hey, I messed up.
We did some things. Like, I'm sorry. Here's what we're going to
do. It feels like it's loaded with excuses. And I'm not saying the mental health stuff isn't very
real. See, no one cares about my problems. No one cares that my... Everyone got a little laugh out
of the cold open. I'm the only person on this space that cares that my cat shit on the floor.
Like I'm the only one that has to deal with my problems. No one else cares about my problems.
Just like no one cares about your problems. Like people, human nature will be sympathetic to others
and we're like, Oh, you know, woe is me. My, you know, I got a flat tire. I, my, my dog died on
the way to work.
Like, we're having a horrible day.
It's like, oh, that's awful.
I really feel for you.
But at the end of the day, guess what?
We all have our own problems that we're dealing with. Like, we all go through stuff.
And so, like, to use my problems as, like,
for someone else to get, like, to give me sympathy,
it just, it leaves, like, I'm not looking for sympathy
because my cat shit on my floors.
Like, it was more of a funny story,
and I'll go deal with it. My is like what about what about gordon's problems
do you care about gordon's problems gordon gonna
i care about his health very much and i i just don't like but i don't i think this is a it's a
good question because i don't think like i never once felt that g Gordon was using that as an excuse or that, like, it's just like, I think that there's how things are said is, and part of it becomes like, what did you do prior to that?
Right?
Did you take any accountability prior to sharing something?
Like, you really made me think I had to pause on that one, Q, because it's, yes, I care about Gordon and his health, but I don't view as like, I don't feel that he's ever used that as a quote-unquote excuse.
But let me push back for a minute and also agree at the same time.
So, agree with your points.
I also think it's important to point out how this happened.
Kevin Rose has been doing random shows with Tim Ferriss for years.
For years.
That's how I knew about Kevin Rose for years ago. Because his first ever episode of Tim Ferriss' years, for years. Like I, like I, that's how I knew about Kevin
Rose for years ago because he, his first ever episode of Tim Ferriss show was with Kevin Rose
and they do the occasional random shows. And I love them because I always learn about products,
like literally the soap I use in my shower because Kevin Rose mentioned it and his wife's a
physician on an episode of the Tim Ferriss show, like for years out of a like three hour podcast
or something or two hours or whatever it is people
took one snippet where he's talking to his friend about a situation he went through that was really
tough and every and a lot of people on twitter are saying like oh like he's trying to make an
excuse for moonbirds and this you think don't you think k-ro knew that was going to get clipped when
he went into it don't you think that all the eyes and from like i i don't think he thought i i would
i would bet i don't know almost thought I would, I would bet.
I don't know.
I'm not saying it was scripted or he went into it with that intent.
But if he didn't think that that's good, everything he said on that, that episode was going to get clipped and circulated through crypto Twitter, like then he's not as intelligent as I thought he was.
Because like that, that was like, there was no way that wasn't going to make the rounds on crypto Twitter.
I think there's a discussion to be had about self-awareness related to the impact of his words.
And I agree with you on that.
I actually would take the other side of that.
I don't think he put that out there thinking like,
ha ha, this is my excuse and everybody's going to hear it.
Now we're going to feel sorry for me.
I think he's talking to his friend.
I mean, it's like if I hosted a podcast
and I have you or Bunchu
or like any of my great friends on that show, right?
And we're talking about the mental, because we've talked on this show about mental health
issues I've gone through.
And, you know, everybody on this stage has gone through.
And when like, I don't expect that to be seen as an excuse for me not executing, not getting
back to someone.
I mean, even like in DMs, there are people who DM me who I really want to get to talk
to and jump on the phone with or whatever.
And I don't get back to them.
And I'm like, oh, crap. It's because I was busy here.
I was there.
And when I get back to them, I'm like, hey, sorry about that.
Again, to your point, apology helps.
But like, this is my bad.
Here's what happened.
I don't expect them to care or know, but I think it's contextual.
And I think having a conversation with his friend at a podcast and getting a,
not only just a one minute clip, a one minute clip,
which was edited, right? Like, which has like pieces pulled in. It's not a continuous clip.
And I've seen this many, many times where people pull one piece and then they put it out there for,
for clicks and views. And so I think there's a conversation to be had there about like that too.
But like, to your point, I don't, I don't, I think there's maybe a lack of self-awareness,
but to put the train back on the tracks, I think, one, it's okay to acknowledge both things.
It's okay to acknowledge that, one, you shouldn't be a scumbag on the internet, right?
Which is really easy to say.
So if somebody is doing something, and again, I do think there's accountability.
The funniest replies I'm getting to that tweet I put out is,
oh, well, he stole $81 million.
First of all, anyone who understands how fundraising works knows that there's a very good chance outside of a salary, he hasn't made a dime.
And I've had multiple people tell me that behind the scenes and I haven't talked about it because I tend not to share that information.
But I think it's relevant today.
The man hasn't pulled in a dime from this project.
As I understand it, he may not even have pulled a salary in.
And I have that on relatively good authority, number one.
So when people are saying he stole $81 million,
number two, stole $81 million on the mint that people willingfully yeeted their money into
is not a theft.
He didn't go into a contract, find an exploit, and take the money out.
He minted a project.
Now, your point, Cap, fair.
Critique, right?
I wanted to go to a conference.
I was looking forward to high, right?
All the things that they talk about that weren't executed upon, I bought, you know, and their commercial rights, which didn't affect me personally, but I know affected our friend Lacko's personally.
And so I do think it's okay to say, like, that's been a major backfumble, just like we just talked about.
Like, G-Funk had some issues with Pixelvault early on and then pulled back and GG GG and I'm proud as hell of them for their launch today. So I think there's nuance. I mean,
I see Farouk out there, like again, coming off, I went back and listened to some of that yesterday,
Steve, like incredible show yesterday. I also caught him on modern market a little bit ago,
like Farouk got some pushback. I, you know, I didn't like for, for all the hard time,
like for myself included, right? Like I said, I sent a UD and like, thank God I didn't like
torpedo that relationship with Farouk when we didn't see eye to eye on something a few years ago.
Farouk stood up to the blowback and got in the DMs.
He didn't just go away.
And I feel like K-Row is just – this also, I think part of my interpretation of this, Steve, is it comes on the heels of him leaving X.
So it's like, to me, it's a compounding effect of his actions.
And I just think it's,
I'm not attacking him and his mental health issues.
I just, the optics, I can understand
how those that are giving it, who didn't receive it well,
I understand their perception as well.
Yeah, there's a fine line between, or there is a place to have both the conversation of,
A, you shouldn't be a scumbag on the internet and treat people poorly,
and B, buck up, buttercup, you signed up for this, right?
There's both of those things can be true.
You know, when I was in the middle of writing a book, and it was hard,
and things were going, you know, and we were like going through the slog,
and it's a lot of work and all these things. Like I didn't look at Scott and be like,
fuck it. I want to stop writing. I had to write through it. There are times when I've looked at
myself in the mirror. I've had like full blown panic attacks before when, um, employment,
like I missed it. Like, I don't even think I've shared this on this show. When my dad died a
couple of years ago, I stopped and dropped everything for two weeks to help my mom.
My siblings weren't as available for her.
And I literally missed a major professional opportunity because of it that never came back.
Major professional opportunity.
And that sucked.
And it fucked with me for a while.
And I had issues with it for a while.
And to your point, like, did I need anybody to feel sorry for me? No, but if, like, I missed something and I ended up having issues,
I don't want people to sit there and just rail on me on the internet.
At the same time, I needed to, you know, pick up my bootstraps and go for it.
And there's levels to it, right?
Thankfully, nobody's doxing my house on the internet.
Thankfully, nobody's threatening me.
The win.
I just want to double tap on this, Steve, because it's like,
I think part of it is when I mentioned the optic, it's the timing of this. Like if K-Bro comes out and has this conversation with Tim two
years from now after things, it's just like, it feels like the timing is very poor, right? It's
like you weren't complaining about the life, the major professional life opportunity you missed as
you were going through it. You're sharing that story years after the fact. You know, it's like,
I think that the how of the delivery and the when of the delivery is important.
And I just, maybe you nailed it.
It's just a lack of self-awareness.
And I think that's what it is.
I know we got a hand flying up to talk about this, so we'll get down there.
But again, I think it's okay to have the nuance of saying, one, it's great.
And then there's the other thing, though.
There's also the blowback effect. Like when Amanda, a.k.a. Stevie, when, you know, you know, NFT stats, right, is getting is getting a blowback as well.
Sam, when you're you're seeing, you know, all those people on that team who are getting absolutely.
And by the way, it's just completely uncalled for and ridiculous.
You know, even like Justin, like Justin is like the nicest.
He is one of the nicest human beings I have ever met in my life, right?
Like one of the nicest human beings who genuinely, if you don't think that he cares about what's going on with Moonbirds,
you're out of your mind.
Do one Zoom call with the man and have a conversation.
And I guess I'll say it this way.
Like the team, like the blowback to the team is crappy.
I understand if people want to critique kevin and how he's
handled things i think it's true but on the other hand when we when kevin had issues before he
literally came onto this stage and he sat there and just took bullets from everybody and was like
no this is fair i'm glad we're having the conversation he explained himself and he
actually said like i'm glad we can have a nuanced conversation instead of everyone yelling at me
and i think that there's probably again a different he probably didn't understand fully
what he was signing up for and getting into because he just likes new tech.
I think there is a lot, like, and I don't mean this in a, this is going to sound like condescending and it's not intended to be.
Obviously, Kevin Rose is incredibly intelligent, but I also think he has a little bit of a space ranger quality to him, which is something that I refer to.
And to show the loving nature of it, I refer to my father-in-law too.
He's got a little bit of a space ranger quality to him where I don't think he understands.
Like when you're like, oh, the timing of the words, I don't think it was contrived.
I think Tim Ferriss is like, hey man, want to do a random show?
He's like, sure.
And Tim Ferriss is like, hey, so you're leaving X.
What's that about?
And he starts getting into it, not because he's trying to make an excuse.
I don't think it was like contrived to go on the show.
Tim Ferriss doesn't need to have him on the show, right?
He's got a million big guests.
He needs to have the author of the everything token on.
That's what I know.
That's my, I need to reply to that too.
That would be like a dream.
I've been listening to Tim for years.
But I guess like point being,
and then I'll jump to hands here,
is that there's nuance to saying it's okay to say
somebody has not executed on the things they promised.
Somebody is failing as a founder.
Somebody is failing a project, which has happened,
and needs to do something like what we're seeing with Gigi and PixelVault
and how they're turning around.
But also, talking about someone's house purchase.
What's the plan?
That's all we've got is like, this didn't work, this didn't work.
Okay, what's next?
I think that's like, with PixelVault, even though it took some time,
we knew what was coming.
Honestly, I have no idea what Moonbirds is doing next.
And I agree. And that's
why I think like, you know, there's all those rumors of the sale. We talked about it on the
show. We weren't saying this is a knock to Kevin or anybody else. One of the reasons the sale could
be good, even though so many people bought in for Kevin Rose and would say like, no, I don't want
to see him go. Him selling and launching on as an advisor and just being able to give perspective
isn't the worst thing in the world for them as a project, as holders to say,
if you are at a place where this is like, you know, Cole talked about this and you know,
in his tweet, like, forget what you think. You know, I know people have different thoughts on
Cole, but like Cole said, like I was getting death threats at Pudgy Pettigwins. I couldn't
handle it anymore. So I sold the team. I sold the product as someone who could. And I think that
there's probably some credence to that point of view when you look at the message behind it. Yeah, Cole talks shit on the timeline to a bunch
of people as well. So don't use Cole as a fucking example, right?
No, it's not about the, don't forget the messenger and just listen to the message though,
I guess is my point, is that if I am getting to the point, like, look, if I got to the point where
I was absolutely at a mental health break, where I was like getting to the point of like, you know, borderline suicidal or any of those
things, I would shut my phone down and my wife would be like, step away from the car. Right.
And I think it's okay to say, step away from the vehicle. You're not a failure because you've done
that. You've been successful your whole life. And if this thing is going to hold too hard for you to do that's an oh it's it's not it like people humans a lot of times especially
mega successful ones have a real hard time admitting defeat and i think that there's
probably something to be said about like is it a point where he just admits defeat and goes on
and i'm not saying that like in a bad way i agree with you but he has a fiduciary responsibility to
the holders yeah those communities to put someone else in place to take the wheel.
Fine to give it up and admit defeat, but you can't just go away and not put someone else in charge.
Yeah, and that's fair.
And again, that's totally fair.
And that's sort of my perspective on it is there's nuance to the conversation that we should be having instead of just going out and kicking the door down and being like,
let's talk about where he lived and his mansion he bought, even though he hasn't pulled a dime
from this project, right? That said, look, I mean, we've got a lot of hands. Poppy has been
chomping at the bit to jump in. He's jumped in a couple of times. Poppy's got five French Bulldogs
and Poppy's one of them because he's been yapping. He's ready to roll. So I want to let him off the
leash, let him out the cage. Poppy, GM,. Thank you. I'm, and, and look,
you guys going back and forth, you solve most of the problems anyway. I'm sure like Riggs and Stoop
were just as eager to jump in as I was. Trust me. Um, and you guys work through a lot of stuff.
That's why I love coming on the show. It was the cat. It was cat nip this morning. Maybe I,
maybe a different type of hallucination. But look,
here's the reality of it. I really don't talk about this from any type of boastful standpoint.
But I've run a company and we've done over 2 billion in sales the last few years.
Very large company. We're still doing 10 plus million a month. and i'm second in line decision maker um and and i gotta just be
honest right like their mental health is absolutely 100 there's a few bullet points to address here
and i'll try to do it fast mental health is absolutely a real thing um and and it can't be
downplayed or disregarded i also think think that just like anything, especially in the United
States that we live in, people find something that looks like a rock and they hide behind it.
And when you're in a position of leadership, you cannot just do what Kevin has done and then run
and hide behind a rock when stuff gets tough. And look, the sympathizing for him, there's two sides to that. First side
is the death threats, the extremism, I would say. That's way too far. Look, it's way too far. If
you had 200 grand to dunk on a bird and some pixel bird on the internet that was way overpriced
flying. I mean, I remember when they were going nuts.
Everybody was like, this is VC money.
If you're chasing VC hype money, that's partially on you.
I sold a bird for 55 ETH when ETH was 3 to 4K.
That was an easy get out and run.
Now for the gamblers in the space, you can't really cry too much.
Because if you sold your bird at the top, you can't really cry too much because if you sold
your bird at the top, you probably would have cheated into something else.
And that went down too.
You probably would have sold like how many people that are crying on the timeline?
This has to be addressed before I go and share my two cents about Kevin, uh, who I
think is being a little dramatic here.
But like the reality is you sell that proof pass at the top,
you sell the bird at the top, and then you're buying something else that is down significantly
as well, like a board ape or whatever. Like, so most of these people are gamblers,
me being included. I've never taken ETH out of the market. I've only added it.
And that has resulted in far less USD value for my portfolio. But I'm here and I've
been responsible with my money outside of it. And the money that's here probably may never leave,
period. That's that part. So I don't want to hear people crying like, I lost money because of Kevin
Rose. You lost money because you lost money. Get over it. Now, here's my problem with the Tim Ferriss thing and why I think Kevin has continued to melt down.
Steve, you nailed it. I mean, Cap, you nailed it.
He has yet to come out and really just own it.
Like, own it, take responsibility.
Look, I screwed up. I've made mistakes.
Like you said, Farouk, when I first got in the space, people had opinions about Farouk
because I saw him on the timeline and I was like in a chat. I'm like, dude, this guy's a beast. And somebody was like, oh, yeah, but da-da-da-da-da. And over the years, I formed my own opinion. And I genuinely like the guy. And I think it's partially because he stood up and said, hey, look, like maybe I made mistakes or whatever. Like, I'm not too familiar with it, but I've seen him as stand up so kevin dunked on other projects let's not
forget like all the stuff in the middle right like he dunked there was a voice uh recording of him
like dunking on board api club while moonbirds are spiraling um dunking on other projects while
hold on real quick before you before i'll let you keep cooking but before we say dunking
like it wasn't a dunk.
Like, this is what I'm saying about a lack of self-awareness.
This isn't an excuse.
This is me saying, I know people like Kevin Rose in my life when I hear how he talks and does things.
Like, when he jumped into space and is like, well, percentage-wise, actually, Bordeaux Yacht Club is down more than Moonburst from the top.
And it's like, of course.
And, like, I commented on it.
I was like, Kevin, like, they gave a $100,000 airdrop. They've given you, they printed money. Like it's not apples to apples, but literally like he's just saw a stat in a meeting and he's like, Hey, this is, this is something I'll bring up in conversation. And it was one clip in a one hour conversation where it wasn't a dunk. Like it's one thing to say Ryan Carson was dunking, right? Like that's fair, right? He was going crazy, but he wasn't dunking. He just, I, this is my like point about lack of sometimes. And again,
it's going to sound insulting. And if you listen to this, we're going to be like, fuck this guy.
But like, I think sometimes not realizing the impact of his words as people are, there is a
problem that he has. And I think it's one of the reasons why we've been saying for a long time,
look early on Keith, Keith, who's a regular listener to the show, sent a DM to the Moonbird team was like, you should hire Steve to be your
director of communications or your VP of communications, because y'all just need to
figure out what you're saying and say it right. And they're like, we're not looking to hire that
right now. But like, the point being, like, they needed communications help. And when you have
somebody who maybe from a PR perspective doesn't realize the impact of their words, it wasn't a dunking.
It was just a really stupid thing to say that could have been curved.
Again, last thing I'll say, and then I'll throw it back to you, Poppy.
I have worked with Fortune 500 executives who have said, like, ooh, like, they pull up an information to me.
And I'm like, look at them.
And I'm like, do not say those words again to anybody outside of this room.
You will absolutely get killed for it.
And they're like, okay, thanks.
That's why we hired you.
Right.
Cause they'll like think something makes sense and they won't say it.
I think Kevin doesn't have someone like that to be like, Hey man,
like don't say board ABI club is down more than, more than you.
And here's why.
And here's why that's a problem.
And here's why you can't make that comparison and you need to have a
larger market discussion, but Bobby,
so you've helped me summarize this.
All right. It was a layup, not a dunk. Um, but,
but one way or the other, uh, I think the main issue with Kev is that he's just too busy trying
to justify things. And for example, like Jesse Bryan, very good friend of mine, one of my closest
friends in the space, genius, like his belief, uh his belief agency has worked with some of the top
companies in the US. Like Jesse is, Jesse can help any project in the space, period. Like if
he sat at the boardroom, he's bringing ideas. And he is now part of the Proof slash Moonbirds team,
zero announcement. Not that it's a game changer or he's the CEO, but he is like head of strategy,
Um, not that it's a game changer or he's the CEO, but he is like head of strategy, like a significant role. He is, he is, he has people that work under him from what I understand. And there's been like no comms. And I think a lot of it, at least from the outside, comms on the opening for the fucking role. There's people that are salty about even the fact that they've hired someone, let alone the fact that they haven't.
Yeah, that's exactly me being one of them.
No, yeah.
Riggs said, look, I had no idea one day.
Jesse was like, oh, by the way.
And I'm like, OK, cool.
Like, but but again, I think it's just it's been a lot from the outside looking in.
It just looks like a disaster.
And the justification of a disaster is very hard to look at and feel sympathy for anything outside of his mental health struggles.
You know, he's on the Tim Ferriss. And this is the last point I'll make.
Like, I watched the Tim Ferriss podcast and I just saw Farouk jumped in, like from a media perspective.
perspective right i would love to hear some feedback on this because it's just like why did
kevin have to include if not to justify or to find sympathy or to like make himself sound cool
why did he have to say so like i had this nft project and you know it was like a billion dollars
in sales man and tim like laughs and he's like, yeah, you know, like if, if, if you're really
struggling, then, then you kind of talk about things differently from my perspective. I'm not
going to go and be like, yeah, dude, like I'm leaving X because, you know, I've, I've dealt
with these threats and this mental health thing and all this, but by the way, we did X amount in sales, X amount of royalties and like,
oh, and I found out people trade after and because they've traded poorly, I've changed
some people's lives, but then I've also hurt some people's lives.
And apparently that's my fault.
Like just the way he framed it.
It's like, I don't really feel bad for you, bro.
Like you're, you're justifying everything that you do.
And also trying to seem cool.
Sorry, I just want to say this.
He's still trying to, like, present himself as cool and relevant in Web 2.
If not, why would you?
Like, Tim Ferriss is massive.
Of course it's going to make its way to Web 3.
But he's trying to, in my opinion, he's trying to save face for his Web 2 presence.
Yeah, I mean, again, like, and this is where it's's just a difference of opinion and nobody can know without being in their heads but i'll say
this and then we'll go we'll go rigs and then stoop after this in a second because they've been
they've been here a while but like i'll say this like i don't think i think your your point of view
is fair right because you're not saying like you know show up to this guy's house and burn it down
you're saying like he needs accountability and i don't like the way you went about it i would also
say this is just me my personal personal opinion, having listened to Tim
Ferris for years and Kevin Rose for years. And I say this as a, as a, also a person who is very,
very, you know, not a typical bird is, you know, I just, I think they're also just a couple of
weirdos and that's how they communicate. Right? Like Tiffany Fong did an interview with a guy
that was in jail with SF, you know, SBF. And she was like laughing and she's like they communicate, right? Like Tiffany Fong did an interview with a guy that was in jail with SBF
and she was like laughing.
And she's like, I nervous laugh
and people critique me for it.
She's like, it's just kind of how I approach things.
And I think there's something to be said
about the fact that like, you know,
as he's talking about it,
he's explaining to an audience
that maybe doesn't understand what NFTs are
about how things go.
He's explaining what happened.
And then he's giving sort of his perspective
and how he sees it.
And again, I'm not trying to justify it
because the other thing about it
that I think is important to recognize
is when you choose a life of being a public founder,
there's a reason why I don't have a PFP project or anything.
I'm not saying it would be great or anything like that,
but when people were like,
oh, you should do an NFT project or this or that,
I'm like, no, I have no desire to do that because I know what
comes with that. Right? Like, so you also need to understand the trade-offs and we are far enough
in the market when Moonbird's minted that it's fair to say he knew that that exists. And with,
you know, with the riches come the spoils, but also comes the heavy wears the crown, right?
Heavy is the head that wears the crown. And I think that it's fair to say, like,
one of the things I do every single morning here is I'm putting myself in a position to be clipped,
to be critiqued, to be DMed, to be threatened, like all of those things. And I understand that,
but the, I also enjoy the things that come with it. And it's part of what my passion is and what
I want to do. And I know every move I make, you know, I, you know, every call I have, everything
I do and every decision I make in this spot, I, you know, every call I have, everything I do and every decision
I make in this spot, I know, like I put out an announcement for Starbucks a couple, you know,
a couple of days ago, part of it was good. Part of it wasn't. And I knew, and I had a conversation
with my team. I'm going to get some blowback. Some people are going to argue with me. Some
people are going to yell at me. Some people are going to blame me. Like it's part of what happens
in this space. So there's always going to be ups and downs. If you don't want those roles,
there are plenty of things you can do.
They're a lot,
much more stress-free.
So I also think it's fair for you to say that,
you know,
heavy is the head.
And if you're willing to go that direction,
that's okay.
So I don't think your point's invalid,
but I also think,
I don't think it was as contrived as a lot of people are making it up.
People are like,
yeah,
that's,
that's the thing,
right?
I just don't like,
it can't be overly justified because there has to be some fault and some responsibility taken out.
I'll let you throw it over.
Just say, like, look at how Yuga handled Gordon stepping back.
Like, they should have, Moonbird should have hired Riggs.
They should have hired people that understood and had a passion for it
or hired somebody that was qualified like Daniel Allegri coming in. That's, I think that's also like part of the problem.
Yeah, no, it's, it's fair. And I also think I have thoughts on different ways,
hiring decisions work as well. Cause I've been on both sides of that where,
you know, like when we hired a Starbucks mod, it was,
it was not posted to the community and it was intentionally not for a variety of
reasons besides the fact that it wasn't directly with Starbucks and it was not posted to the community. And it was intentionally not for a variety of reasons,
besides the fact that it wasn't directly with Starbucks and it was through a consulting company.
It was a certain skillset we were looking for. There were things within the community that we
would have looked at based on that. And there were people who applied within the community,
for sure. But it wasn't like we overly promoted five announcements for looking for a mod.
It was more of a quick move for a variety of reasons. And there were people who were upset
about that in the community, but that was a decision we had to make, right. That we
weren't, now we weren't going to exclude people from the community, but we weren't going to make
it a big promotional thing either based on what we knew we were looking for in that role. And I
also think there's a lot of, you know, I've had conversations about big web three roles with
other people that I've not taken one, you know, whatever, but like, and those have gone behind the scenes too, because they're like,
we don't need to interview you because you're a good skillset fit.
What do you think? Like, and I'm not trying to like, yay, rah, rah,
myself on that sort of thing.
It's more just the idea that like certain people look for certain things in
roles. So I do think there's two sides to the publicly posting or not.
This one's a little different for a variety of reasons, but that said,
I want to go to Riggs. I know Riggs has,
he was one of the faces and defenders defenders of moon birds for a variety of reasons, but that said, I want to go to Riggs. I know Riggs has, he was one of the faces and defenders of Moonbirds for a long time.
So Riggs, what say you on this? And then we'll go stoop after that.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this conversation is obviously evoking a lot of emotion.
And first and foremost, I hate that I even have to preface this, but I actually love the proof team, Kevin included, like as human beings on the human level.
I've gotten to know every single one of them almost. And I care for them deeply. I think they,
for the most part, are very good human beings. Just have not worked here. And I continue to hear the word sympathy come out of people's mouths.
And I think that's the wrong word. We shouldn't be sympathizing with him. We should be empathizing
with him. There's a very big difference between the two. And when you empathize with somebody
going through mental health issues, because I've gone through them, I've shared stories on stages
about things that I've dealt with in my business career, in my leadership career, and it was incredibly challenging.
Dark, dark, dark fucking days, crying myself to sleep at night because I had things that threats come at me, you know, on Twitter, on Twitter.
But first things that I've said for defending, you know, not even defending, but, you know, going at people for being racist.
Right. You know, it's one of those things that all of a sudden now I've got an entire crew.
So this this app can be extremely toxic.
That said, the reality is and we've talked about it a lot.
They've not had a good plan in place. There's not a true leader that's taking the reins right now that understands the culture of the PF. And when I say culture, PFP culture, they were doing incredible things as an art collective. And then the blow up of Moonbirds, right?
And the massive BC raids and the expectations rose.
And I talked on a stage last night and I forget who it was.
Somebody was like, well, they didn't promise anything before the mint.
And I go, are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me?
I've been here since I was a mentor.
They promised a shit ton of stuff.
Ryan Carson promised the fucking world right and then
he ends up going against his words and doing things and so from day one almost there was chaos
in the streets of moonbirds and it was going to take a individual that had the
the stomach to be able to to right the ship fast, because this is not a corporate world.
This is web free.
You've got to move fast.
You've got to break shit, and you've got to adjust every day almost and be communicating.
And so one of the reasons I had my issues with G-Funk was not because my bags were down.
It's because he disappeared.
He was getting bad advice, and he leaned out of the
community. And when you lean out of the community, you're allowing people to build more animosity.
You're taking the people. These are PFPs. We're supposed to be proud to rock them, right? Not
have to get up on stage and every comment you make, someone says, oh, of course, a dumb fucking moon bird would say that, right?
That's a real situation that comes up, and I dealt with it all the time, people not even knowing my background, my education, the experiences I've had, right?
It is what it is.
And so I just think that it's time right now that they need to take a step back.
They need to truly understand, you know, one, I'm a big believer that they need to absolutely separate proof from Moonbirds, completely separate it.
Art is proof. Moonbirds needs to be a Web3 culture project and a storytelling Moonbird universe.
And there's so many things that they can do with that if they have the right leadership in place. And there are people here today, myself included, that for whatever reason, we still are passionate about this and want to fucking help.
Fucking go get the help.
Because if you need to go and focus on your mental health, because mental health, unlike physical health, is different.
There are times you can't control it.
You cannot make your body. You can't just say, get the fuck up and power through this.
Your brain doesn't work that way if you're having true mental health issues.
It's fucking brutal. And so go focus on your health. Bring in people that understand the
culture of PFPs and stay involved.
And then when you start to feel better, get involved more, get involved more.
I've come around to the fact that everyone says Kevin Rose needs to leave Web3 forever.
I think that's a net negative.
Kevin Rose has an incredible network that if used correctly and can be tapped into, it can be so fucking powerful.
So just go focus on something and allow people that truly want to lean into the community and want to fucking build with them.
Then great things can ultimately come from it because I'm a big believer.
I think utility projects are a problem.
I think the more utility you provide is when people want more and want more and
want more and want more culture is the greatest utility you can provide.
And you can't build culture without being in it.
You gotta, it's gotta be team led community driven.
So you gotta push it through your fucking community and let them go and be your fucking voices.
And so I feel for Kevin as a human being.
I empathize with him.
But it's time to get at it.
It's time to bring in a team that fucking wants to do it.
And let's get going.
Well said.
Tying it back to Q's earlier question let's remove mental
from the conversation forget it's mental health just call it health no one's going to be poking
fun at gordon's treatments he's getting for his physical health right no one's going to fault him
for taking time away for getting treatments with his physical health just as we shouldn't however
kevin chooses to treat his mental health i think that the biggest difference and briggs like you help me
unpack it there is it's you it's the most important thing like you should focus on that and and take
that time and if you need to step away step away you got to put someone in charge right like when
gordon stepped away he had they you know daniel and and garga was still there like it wasn't it wasn't
okay who's going to be our leader that that was it may not have been the you know a planned
succession but but we got that communication and the team was in place right that's what i think
is lacking here is you can't go focus on your mental health and still lead proof and moonbirds
through their toughest time.
Yeah.
It's gotta be like,
you gotta get through it.
you know,
I think that that's,
that's the thing is like,
you need to like get through it until you can get the plan in place to take
care of the stakeholders,
particularly those who have been around and care and,
and,
you know,
are,
you know,
the ones who want to be there with you.
And like,
you've got this great team with Amanda's so great at community and so empathetic. You have, you know, are, you know, the ones who want to be there with you. And, like, you've got this great team with Amanda's so great at community
and so empathetic.
You have, you know, Maggie, who's, you know, so great at, like, doing events.
Like, you have, like, all these different people who are, you know,
basically, like, trying their damndest to do the best job.
Like, get a good leader in place and figure it out.
So that will be my take as well, is that, to your point,
I think you hit it really well there, Cap.
I look at mental health.
That's the other thing is there's also leaders on that team
that could be elevated, right?
Maybe they don't want the role.
Maybe they're not the exact fit.
But, I mean, Justin's no slouch.
Sam is one of the most respected commentators on the space, period.
He worked at early Uber.
They have an incredibly talented team.
And I think that's where my frustrations lie
is like, not only do I feel as like Kevin's got,
you know, his priorities probably in the right place
focusing on his health.
However, he's left an incredibly talented team
without direction and leadership.
But do they have a team that wants to drive PSP culture?
That's the question that everyone's asking, right?
Everybody wants to know.
I think there are some people that do, and I apologize for just cutting in, Cap and Steve.
I really do.
But I think there needs to be fresh thoughts, fresh blood that ultimately comes in.
Not to knock anything that I have immense respect for Sam, immense
respect for Amanda, a.k.a. Stevie, Forrest, so many others there.
But you need some people that are in the fucking streets day in and day out that are trying
to build that culture and not just be an education tool.
Be somebody that truly cares about a man or woman woman of the fucking people that's what we need
we need a face of the fucking franchise we need mr met that is out there every fucking day
grinding it out that you had me tell mr matt that you know that they're giant i was freaking
once i get a thumbs down i was like steve are you really coming at me for that yeah no everything
you said is actually 100 correct until you brought up fucking Mr. Met.
Dumbass, big baseball head.
That was a Dow Jones reference, bro.
I mean, like, the reason why the Mets are a clown franchise,
they have like a giant apple that pops out in the center field
when they hit a home run and a giant freaking baseball mascot.
It's like, why do people take the Yankees more seriously?
That's why.
Look, that said, I will say this, Riggs,
I think like your point about like needing to have like proper, like someone in place who gets it,
because at the end of the day, I don't think I don't think it's actually as dogmatic as you said,
I think utility based projects can exist in certain ways, depending on the parameters you
put around them. Again, like I talked about Starbucks Odyssey as a loyalty program,
it's a utility based project that also is a loyalty program, it works, right? And it's also
not a forever membership. But when it comes to PFP projects, which is where you're exactly
right, your PFP is as valuable as the people who rock it. Your PFP is as valuable as your community.
It's why the other day I was saying, the reason why I never thought Ranga had the long-term cook
as much as the arch-great and dirty robots awesome, but why Ranga, I think, struggles is
if you're a PFP project and your top holders are other PFP holders, you know, froganas are going up, they're going down.
But like when I see the majority of people buying them, having eight PFPs, like that
is what you are.
You are selling an item of digital clothing effectively to be worn across digital spaces.
So, you know, if your PFP project isn't understanding the culture and getting people to want to
represent it in all digital spaces, then what do you have as a PFP project?
You need people to have pride of ownership.
And they're lacking that right now.
And I agree they could use the turnaround there as well.
Excuse me.
Can you just hear me?
But yeah, Cole, we're going to go hands, though,
if you want to throw a hand up, just to kind of keep it in order.
Because I know I can always come back later.
I just don't have time right now. It's either I can say one thing or not i just i gotta go if not
yeah i i will why don't you jump down and come on back up later then just because i know stupid
and depressive hacks and nbm waiting for a while as well as q so um yeah i don't want to get my
line but hopefully hopefully remember my username i'll be back yep swing back up all right uh
all right you too uh stoop we'll kick it to you. Swing back up. All right. All right.
You too.
Stoop, we'll kick it to you, and then we'll go to DH.
Stoop, get in here.
Yeah, I think a lot of us have addressed, you know, Moonbirds and Kevin Rose.
I think kind of a couple of the statements that I heard in the video that's actually pinned up above were Moonbirds, like, blowing up bigger than he had expected.
moonbirds like blowing up bigger than he had expected like i i was under the impression that
he had put out marketing that he wanted moonbirds to be one of the biggest pfp projects in web 3
so that was like one of the things that i was semi confused by but i think like on the comments of
you know his choice and everything i think we all all forget, especially, you know,
at times when we're dealing with cartoon PFPs,
it's like, there are people behind this.
And I think we do sometimes go very hard
and we find ourselves kind of like
putting these founders in positions
where there is no necessarily like right choice.
And in the court of public opinion,
no matter what they do,
they can't do anything right.
And I think like we've watched that play out with moonbirds where even if they've tried
to do something correctly i think like um i can't honestly i haven't been paying attention enough to
it but they've they've made some attempts to do good but they've they've just encouraged so much
negative sentiment on the timeline and and and throughout the market that no one's
really giving them that credence. And I think that we've always compared them to like Yuga always
was able to like do no wrong or any mistakes that they made because they've done such good.
And I think like, as we consider that a lot of people, I think, especially around K-Rowe and
who he is as a person, like it's been fascinating to watch and i think especially
for a space that like prides itself on like drugs and degenerate and gambling and all of these
things like to to see some of the reaction to like his choice and like medical proceedings and
like treatment like i that's what i've been more startled by i guess and i think like it's an
important to comment around this, and especially
I think Steve said something about it earlier, around this stigma. But yes, does he have some
mental health issues? Absolutely. I mean, this guy has been threatened and doxxed and had a lot
of different things happen. I think we've seen this happen to other founders as well, right? So
not, especially considering that there was like eight people up here with their hands up,
we're spending the entire morning talking about this guy. And I think it's very important that Like not especially considering that there was like eight people up here with their hands up.
We're spending the entire morning talking about this guy. And I think it's like it's very important that as participants in this market that we do give humans a little bit of grace.
And I think we also need to not like hold founders accountable to a level that seems reasonable and appropriate.
I think like we do expect them to be 24-7, you know, it seems reasonable and appropriate. I think like we do expect them to be 24 seven, you know, devs do something and there is a lot of expectation on founders. And if you're
in a community, like the strength of the community does rely on the members of that community going
out and promoting it. And if like, you're not rocking the PFP and you're not, you know, spreading
good word and cheer about your community, then how is the
community going to continue to grow? And I think a lot of us do forget that when we think of the
PVP nature of trading and how these NFTs has all played out. But I do believe that, especially
around this, a lot of people could use an education around like human nature, how people are. And so
if anyone hasn't read Laws of Human Nature, I highly recommend it by Robert Grebert green and he does talk about some of these things like in the court of public opinion
and some of the things what can k row do like there's there is almost a no-win situation for
him no matter what choice that he makes and it's almost been that situation for quite a while and
and i think it i'm not surprised by this like i think i think the writing has been on the wall
over the last six months or so and anyone that did, anyone that did like know his history, like, it's not like he's always
performed well for investors. So I think like a lot of people put too much expectation and they
wanted him to be their savior. And we do this a lot in this space. I mean, look at what we did
with SPF and, you know, Ryan Carson. And I think like, there's a, there's a laundry list of people
that we can, you know, put up there, uh, that like have been, I don't know, the Carson. And I think like, there's a, there's a laundry list of people that we can,
you know, put up there that like have been, I don't know, the hero of the, of the, of the day, and then kind of become the villain. And I think like, we continue to see this cycle,
and it's until we break from this, that we kind of can, can deal with it and address it.
Yeah, and it's fair. And I think a lot of people also over index on like you talk about like that
sort of savior mentality people over index on when things are going really well you know their
favorite pfp founders are and actually kevin said this in his interview to his credit when things
are going well people love and we've had amanda on this stage say the same thing aka stevie when
things are going well people have a lot of praise to say and they have these big saviors and they
over index yeah i'm gonna push back a little bit on this one i don't i'm not speaking for myself TV, when things are going well, people have a lot of praise to say, and they have these big saviors, and they over-index on that.
I'm going to push back a little bit on this one.
I'm not, speaking for myself, I'm not expecting Kevin to be a savior.
I'm not expecting him to, it's not even about a financial return on any bags.
It's deliver upon expectations that were internally set, or pivot and deliver something else.
I think, like, I'm just seeking accountability, not,
not for him to be a savior. Just, just, just execute. Just, just do speak because you don't,
like, I understand sometimes you will have to pivot. Sometimes things don't work out as planned, but it, it, it's, I just, I feel that that doesn't excuse for a lack of effort or, or,
that doesn't excuse for a lack of effort or, or, you know,
an attempt at a pivot. Like, it's just like, I feel that there's a,
it doesn't, it doesn't have to be,
somebody doesn't have to be a savior to be have expectations.
I think it's okay to have expectations and a level of accountability is what,
is what I'm trying to say.
Yeah. I think both those are true. I was just more saying,
and I don't think it's you cap,
but I think when you see people on the timeline who basically are like treating, you know, treating,
I mean, like, look, I'll give a good example right now
that's going on, and I think he's fantastic.
I am extremely bullish as Luca Nets on a founder,
as a human, as a person, et cetera.
But there are a lot of people who are very over the top
about how they feel about him from their love perspective.
And again, I don't have a problem with it.
I think it's great.
Like, I think Luca is fucking crushing it.
I was talking to a CEO of a major Web3 brand yesterday.
We were talking about how great Luke is crushing it.
So I'm not saying he's not.
But the people who basically act like he's like a deity
is where you start to run into those problems, I think.
And so I think, like, when things are going well,
you see that activity on the timeline is what Stoop was saying.
I don't think you're wrong.
I think the accountability is important.
And I don't think, I think what Stoop is saying, if I'm understanding it correctly, is that there are people who overly, overly index on the actions of a single leader in some situations when things are going well.
And it's like, believe me, if Pudgy Penguins drop to a two-eighth floor price tomorrow, well, I think people like Riggs and Dow are writing because they know it's there and they love it and they love the community.
I think there's going to be a lot of people who have a different take on Luke on the timeline. And I don't think that's okay. Right. I think it's like,
it's sort of the Gary V thing of never get too in your bag one way and never get too, uh, you know,
too depressed the other way when people are talking. So I think that that, I think you are
correct, but I think that that's what Stoop was trying to say more is that like a lot of people
on the timeline will go really sort of almost like – I mean it's the same way.
I mean we saw it in the presidential election.
Like when there's a group of people who treat Donald Trump like he's a K-pop star when he's running for president is bananas to me, right?
But it's like they have this sort of hero worship that goes into that sort of thing.
And so I do think that exists, but I also think to your point, it doesn't mean that there's not room for accountability or saying, you need to do better like i don't think it's the accountability 100 goes on the holder either
um let's hit uh depressive hacks uh q n b and i there's a chance i will step down from stage at
some point here in a second just to uh sneak out but i'm not positive yet but uh go ahead
depressive hacks get in there gm guys uh i will keep it quick i don't really have a ton of experience with moonbirds or
k-ro so i can't really speak to that myself what i can speak to is the mental health conversation
and my experience in that um just you know i would say in obviously i'm a unique case that like
i have depression my whole identity in the space is about that. Um,
it's literally my name. So, you know, maybe people are a little bit more empathetic than they would
be otherwise. But I would say one thing that I wanted to bring up is I've actually seen
a good bit more empathy in web three for mental health than I think i see in real life um i have had some people
really care um people that i've never met in real life at all and you know you always think the first
time that somebody says like oh there's anything i can do like i'm always here right everybody says
that when something's going wrong and people that's just like what else do you say right but i've had people like make a legitimate effort and reach out multiple times and like
i just want to give flowers to web3 for um their general acceptance of mental health issues i feel
like we're ahead of the curve on that in terms of um being understanding with people even if those people are behind cartoon pfps so
that i think is important to recognize um i also think that i full-heartedly agree with
the comms comments that steve made um i know that's come up a couple of different times but
really people who are i i feel very conflicted about this because as somebody who has had
depression for a very long time, right? Like I have experienced what it's like to go into one
of those terrible mental health cycles. And in the interview, Cairo specifically states that he's
always pride himself on having very good mental health up to this point. And there's something to be said for the very first time that you experience
something like that. I know that like right now I'm in my third major depressive state of my life
and it's going better than the first two, but I've been here before and I've done that. And
there's something to be said for having that experience to make that go a little bit smoother the third time than the first time. That being said, I'm
also not the founder of anything and I'm not a multi-million dollar successful business person.
So there's also something to be said for having a plan and figuring out what to do whenever you're in those
circumstances. I very much see both sides of the argument here. I don't have a whole lot more to
add that hasn't already been said, but just kind of wanted to say good morning and thank you guys
for pushing the conversation on mental health. Yeah, no, and I appreciate your sharing there,
and I appreciate your perspective on the nuance of the conversation because I do think that there is um again like i think you know over the course of you know an
hour and a half we're sitting here having a nuanced conversation and still getting new
thoughts and ideas which is why i think it's important to address it and say you know not
an excuse also not an excuse to be crappy on the internet as people often are so um you know
shout out to depressive hacks for for standing up for NFT communities worldwide.
In a small world event this morning, Steve, I had one of my in-real-life friends tag me in a Twitter thread tellingressive hacks who was responding to someone a tesla a tesla
bull who was saying nft communities whatever happened to that and uh and depressive hacks
was saying actually there there there's actually a lot of really talented builders in this space
that stuck around and are doing some really cool stuff and um i you know so again it was just a
world a small world of uh worlds crossing in really weird ways on the timeline.
But I saw one of my in real life friends put me on to depressive hacks defending us all at large.
Love to see that.
That was a fun notification to wake up to, Cap.
That brought a smile to my face this morning.
Yeah, I actually, so speaking of mental health, i need to go get myself some sun shortly because
the family is waiting for me at the water park so i need to sneak out um on my last day of uh
dominican republic day um did the show all week have had a busy work week so i'm gonna jump out
as it's approaching 11 o'clock where i am right now i will let cap slash everyone else steer the
ship i know we have some hands to get through i'm not not going to get credit for super spaces, but that's okay.
We'll get into the new year and appreciate everyone stopping by.
I'll kind of let Cap go ahead and share.
Ooh, I lost, I lost Steve there.
I don't know if that was, that was, that was my, that was my phone.
I was just hoping it wasn't,
I was hoping it wasn't me rugging as you were dipping.
No, enjoy, enjoy the rest of your trip.
Appreciate you joining us
and spending so much time with us this week on your vacay.
Really excited for next week.
We're continuing to run hot with incredible guests.
Speaking of, I actually will go grab a link
to the pod from yesterday
if you happen to miss the show with Farouk and Loxley.
Just one of my favorite interviews
we've ever done on the show.
Really, really enjoyed it as a listener
and participant in this space more so than even a host yesterday.
Really just thoroughly enjoyed it.
I'll go grab that here in a minute as we go through hands.
But next week, we've got another incredible lineup already queued up and maybe some more adding to it.
But we'll share the details coming soon.
One, I will go ahead and tease Pons, who's been taking over the timeline, will be joining us.
Really excited for that deep dive.
And that'll be the Alpha Tease might have another announcement or two related to that day.
But if you're new here, if you just found us today, welcome.
Thanks for joining us.
We do run this back every Monday through Friday at 8 a.m. Eastern time.
We're on this back every Monday through Friday at 8 a.m. Eastern time.
We'll often open with the, you know, after we get through our cold open nonsense,
like the cat poop in the robot vacuum cleaner, we will cover some NFT Web3 news of the day.
And then fortunately, or often we're fortunate to be joined by special guests around the nine o'clock hour.
And we'll get into some Q&A.
But I hope everyone does.
Cap, if you need some help running hands right now as well,
just bring me up.
I'll try to help you so you can multitask.
Well, the reason is I'm actually,
like this is just true authentic me,
is I'm on the Bat phone right now.
I'm in my house.
So I could very well be sitting behind the main war station
and the mic and the Rodecaster.
But instead, I'm rocking the Steves,
the wired Apple headphones on my bat phone
as I continue to manually clean.
I'm sorry, what the fuck is a bat phone?
Just a second phone.
A burner phone, as the kids might call it.
I'm, yeah.
Anyways, I'm doing this because I'm continuing
to manually clean out the little pieces of poop
out of the crevices of my robot vacuum cleaner.
So again, the fact that we don't have video
on this scene this morning, it's my apologies.
It's a big mess.
I blame you, by the way,
for me having to step in cat vomit, by the way,
by bringing up this conversation.
Literally walk out of my room
and step right in fucking cat vomit this morning.
Awesome.
It's amazing um i i do believe the order of hands was nbq and then uh blockchain ninja apologies if i got that order
wrong but let's go nbq blockchain ninja and then uh held uh uh held mind do you hold that
what's that never mind um i i have one question before i go how long has
moonbirds been going for rigs probably had 2022 how was that a year and a something
year and a year and a half all right so i have zero fucking sympathy for this guy
because like he's been running this since March 2022.
And from the start, it sounded like he had zero confidence to Stoop's point.
He was just like, oh, yeah, I don't know if it's going to go.
So either he is incredibly just fucking self-destructive or idiotic.
And I'm leaning towards idiotic for most of it because it was called fucking moon
birds i don't think i would already think it was gonna go to the bedrock like it i come on bro
it's called a moon bird of course it's gonna go to the moon that's the intent with the name like
it so that's that and then on top of that we should have went to nb before steve left he
steve is would do a much better job of keeping the stage
calm, cool, collected. It was a
year and a half. Steve would be pushing back on NB.
I'm just going to let NB. A year and a half.
You want me to take that role? You know how many
I know how many
I've seen them. You know how many
fucking wellness retreats this guy
has been on in a year and a half?
More than I've been on in my
fucking like past 7, 8, 9, 12, whole a half more than I've been on in my fucking like past seven,
eight, nine, 12, whole my everything like that. I've never been on a wellness retreat. I'd love
to. I'd really need it. It'd be nice to calm down a fucking little. Obviously you guys can hear I
need a fucking wellness retreat right now, but like, I don't know. I'm a normal person. I can't
afford it. Meanwhile, Kevin Rose is out on 17 fucking
wellness retreats. Then he goes in on this fucking like very public podcast and goes,
what does he say? What did he say? Fuck. Oh, yeah, I have high blood pressure. And now I need
to do ketamine. Like what a fucking privileged position to be in where you can admit to doing some obscure fucking like a legal drug publicly on a podcast and still have your fucking job.
Like that's just like I would love to go on a fucking like the podcast and be like, oh, yeah, I love cocaine.
Cocaine fucking rocks, you know?
Yeah, that's not entirely what it was. like the podcast and be like oh yeah i love cocaine cocaine fucking rocks you know yeah
that's not entirely what it was i mean he went to a a treatment center it wasn't like he was
ripping rails a special k no he parades it bro he's been parading it since 2022
mental health there was ibs issues there was a feeling of loss did you listen to the other
tim ferris podcast with him?
You should. I don't think anyone else did, but I highly suggest you check out those other ones because this ain't nothing new. This was tame in terms of the drug shit. I had no idea how much of
a druggie he is. But to that point, you can't. It's just a very privileged position to be able
to openly say, oh, yeah, I do all these extra, you know,
hallucinogens and not have an employer like, you know, wearing over you. And then it also casts a
different view on the people who are working for him, because it looks like it goes from being
like this high value like shop to being like this. OK, we got the head of hippies leading the hippies
over at proof. They're all doing psychedelics and shit
that's where that's why nothing's going right and it's like i don't blame them i don't know i have
no sympathy that's my tldr i mean what's your take then if you're gonna go that way on k-row
i mean what's your take on gordon goner who used to don't call him that he's heading me heaven for
now on and gordon goner's fine bro he's he's chill maybe he does drugs i don't fucking know that's
how it should be right he does his little thing he's talked about it let's be real he's told
people to go take shrooms and go on a built like a wilderness uh adventure so it's it's part of
part of things but this was for mental this this really well i don't like drugs so maybe that's
another fucking argument for another fucking time but i don't like drugs so now i don't like
moonbirds that's my position but mb like even as pushback it's not like he was on tim ferris's
podcast saying like oh yeah you know me and some homies have just been ripping some lines of uh
ketamine uh on our glass tables up here in sf uh no last podcast he said he was doing it
like rectally however the fuck you know i don't even know how that works he was saying that it
was like administered through like a process like a treatment treatment process over like what
two weeks or something it was like eight doses or something like that
it sounds better than when he did it rectally in the last podcast.
All right, let's keep it moving.
Let's go to Q.
Hey, Riggs, you reminded me of something when you started talking about G-Funk
and that one of your peeves with him
was that for a period of time that he disappeared.
And I'd forgotten about that um but you know uh pixel vault is still here just like uh bitcoin is still here even though
satoshi disappeared and you know a test of any great project, I suppose, is if Kevin disappears, will the project still be there?
But, you know, going back to Gordon, the reason why I posed that question to Captain earlier on is because I remember listening to you, Riggs,
to you Riggs and I think you talked about a situation where you joined your father's company
and then left and then came back and then there was some racial issue and one of the workers
reported you for saying something that you think you didn't say and then you know you you decided to take a break
because you know the embarrassment that you felt or not the embarrassment but you know you know
what I mean you can correct me for whatever it was but um if you want to say anything to that I'll
I'll just pause yeah I know I you got most of it correct other than I did not take a break. What I said was it wasn't the time to defend and it wasn't the time to deflect.
And so I actually went and met with all of the individuals that felt I had done something offensive, even though it was a false accusation, in order to learn from them and get to know their heart and so they could feel my heart
but it was incredibly challenging to wake up every morning knowing I had to go and lead a company
where there's a stigma of who I was that it wasn't who I am and so yeah that that is that was what I
was alluding to earlier of the sleepless nights the crying crying myself to sleep, because it was something that broke my heart
that somebody would say those things about me. Right. And obviously that, you know, obviously
those mental issues there. But the reason why I was saying that was because with Yuga, with Gordon,
with Gaga, you know, there's a point in time where Paulie and Ryder were having such a big go at them based on the race issue and the various anti-Semitic things with the apes and the whole underlying things of puzzles and hidden meanings.
And I remember a space where myself, Illa, and Franklin were in a space.
I can't remember whether, I think, anyway, there's a couple of them.
Paulie was there and Ryder and they were having a go at Franklin or having a go at Illa.
And then, you know, I own an ape.
So they were having a, you know, questioning me and whatever.
they were having a, you know, questioning me and whatever.
So it was all this stuff to do with race and stuff.
So it was all this stuff to do with race and stuff.
And I remember clearly because obviously it has to do with the race and color
and all of this.
And even there was some black people who,
when I was talking about Clubhouse and, you know,
people making ape sounds and stuff like that.
And, you know, you know, these people were my friends and stuff like that. And, you know, I didn't think anything about it because they were just they were.
Well, I'm following you and this and that. I said, all right, cool, whatever it is.
whatever it is. But point being that there came a point in that case when subpoenas or whatever it
is, Americans call it, were served on Gaga and Gordon, and they were due to appear personally
in court because before then they had just you know been writing or talking through
their lawyers and then it was at that point that all of a sudden Gordon said his health wasn't that
good and that he couldn't appear and whatever it is I remember it because you know I was just
embroiled in this whole race thing and then then I thought, okay, fair enough.
So all of a sudden, this guy's health's come into it,
and he's not going to appear in court and answer these questions.
Not that he had to.
And then I was in France for NFT Paris at a rug radio event,
and I met Gaga. know we just got talking and obviously
it came around to the whole uh Paulie and Ryder thing um and you know he was like you know that
you know it had taken a toll on him and taken a toll on Gordon and the company. And obviously, you know, he's looking at
me thinking, you know, and I said, look, I just bought a PFP and, you know, you guys are going
through whatever it is. So, I mean, you know, different people disappear, founders, for different
reasons. And, you know, I just found it kind of timely that that was the point at which um
gordon stepped back and said you know other people are coming forward and then just one
more thing because i'm a hometown player so i uh only force um they came from us in clubhouse and you know they were a great success or they are a
great success and i remember meeting um jr in london and he talked about and he's talked about
it openly so i can talk about it um the pressure when the project wasn't performing as well
and he got depressed and he got to the point
where he went out into the desert
and wanted to commit suicide.
And he'd left a note.
And I asked him, I said, you know,
JR, you know, you're an artist, whatever it is.
And how can, he goes,
I just feel that I've let them down.
I just feel that.
And I turned around to him and I said, well, you don't owe anybody anything.
Because, you know, you came up with the idea.
So I don't know, I think, and also, sorry, I'm just jumping around.
On that Tim Ferriss and KRO thing, right, that interview was planned.
Because I didn't look at the clips online yesterday, or whether today.
I actually went and watched the whole interview and I can see them looking at notes.
They both had their notepads and they both talked about previous texts that
they had.
And, you know, now they've decided to talk about this.
And even I think it was something that Tim Ferriss wanted to talk about
because he's also had this whole thing with cock punch
or whatever it is.
And when I was just watching that show
and listening to them talk,
a bit like what MB is saying,
I just said to myself,
man, these guys are chemists.
You know, they know about every little drug,
talking about DECA, testosterone,
alcoholism, this and that, psychedel psychedelics and so when the ketamine
comes into it it's like it's just another part of the journey that um kevin wants to take you know
in you know due to the experience that he's had and you know he's freely talking about it he's freely talking about the doctor dr jen
he's freely talking about what is it called golden afternoon clinic he's fleeting freely
talking about you know some other guy who's really great at um ketamine therapy and whatever it is
and um so i you know i like kevin know, and I like founders and I like watching founders journeys.
So that's why I tied it into what your experience, Ricks, you know, where you felt, you know, you had to deal with it.
And I just think, like I said earlier on, some people can with it um or can't cope with it and some people
use um these um challenges to define themselves and define their character um i'm done talking
yeah no totally fair uh it's definitely one of those things and until you go through it
i'm not sure you know if you're that person who can or can't cope with it we can all say we've got the dog in us we're all competitive
we all want to make it happen but but but Riggs you just reminded me of something by saying we're
all competitive this is another thing right is the competition in this space is player versus player.
So no one gives a shit if you're Mr. True Ventures or if you're Mr. Uber or whatever it is.
If you come against, you know, Coffee with Captain
or you come up against Riggs or you come up against Farrak
or you come up against Frank or you come up against Luca
or whatever it is and Luca is performing better than you
or whatever, it can be hard is performing better than you or whatever,
it can be hard to take on your ego, right?
You know, coming in thinking that, you know,
you, Ryan Carson and whatever it is,
or, you know, Gary Vee or whatever,
because this space levels you out, you know?
And I just, you know, I hope that more women get a chance to level out the men in this space.
And, you know, more people of color get a chance to level out, you know, so that everybody can excel.
Because I think what Kevin's seeing is that, you know, he was in the world, maybe, and he's gone back to that world.
Podcast, comfort, whatever it is where, you know, he invests, just sits back,
does whatever. And, you know, but here, you know, NB can do something. Anybody can do anything at any point. And you've got to say, oh, shit, where did that come from? I'm done talking.
No, I appreciate that cue. Let's keep rolling through the hands because it is at 10 o'clock,
and I think Cap may have already shifted gears.
I'm going to run through these hands, but blockchain and then we'll go held
and then we will wrap it up.
GMGM. RIG's been a while.
Cap, same. So let me preface this by saying I'm not
sticking up for Moonbirds. Proof, whatever it is, as an ecosystem.
I am purely going to speak about Kevin and what's going on as a person.
Look, no one, absolutely nobody on this stage has a right to judge anybody else or how they handle drama, how they handle trauma, depression, whatever it is.
I'm one of the most depressed people you will ever meet.
And no one knows.
Like I spent six years overseas seeing some of the worst shit humanity has ever had happen.
Right.
You can't judge someone on how they handle depression, how they handle their specific trauma.
You just can't so like kudos to the people who
have been sticking up for him and anyone who's judging him for how he handled his trauma
do better seriously like oh god that's a fucking alex quote oh my god i'm gonna go play with the
wobbly stool now um no like i you can't judge people and how they handle their trauma. Everyone handles trauma
differently. Everyone handles depression differently. So don't, just don't. And that's
all I'm saying. Just don't. I hope everyone has a great day. That's literally all I had to add
into the conversation. Fair take. I agree with you. I think the critique or the constructive criticism, any judgment, I think is more on what has or hasn't been done for the businesses, not how he's, you know, I think, you know, I would agree. treat their mental health and deal with their mental health. It's to each their own. And it
should be, whether it's mental or physical health, that should be the number one priority
for the individual and their family. It should take precedent over all this.
But if that has to become a focus because it's not right and you need to get it taken care of,
I think the criticism or the critique is empower someone else to take the reins.
And I think this came out after several other events.
So I think the compounding effect of even if you just look at the last two, I'm leaving Twitter and then this, it's for those that are looking up to him as a leader.
Forget community members. And then and then this it's for those that are looking up to him as a leader.
Well, forget community members just as an employee.
I think someone said earlier, like, how does that how does that make them feel as like, OK, I just I think it's separating the two is is key here. It's not critiquing anyone's personal choices, how they deal with their health.
Rather, from a business standpoint, as a leader, there's there's some responsibility to lead they deal with their health. Rather, from a business standpoint,
as a leader, there's some responsibility to lead and deal with the business. And if you can't deal with the business, you need to put someone in place that can. But that's the thing is like,
we're in the age of the internet. And every decision he makes is under a microscope because
he was head of a project that traded a billion dollars, right? Everything he does is under the
microscope, whether it's his personal life or his business life.
It's all grouped together in the same as it all came from him.
That's the point is like we can't take things and set them aside.
We can't say, oh, this had to deal with his personal life.
And he's talking about it, trying to get it off his chest.
Like kudos to him for trying to make himself better,
for trying to do better for him, for the company, for his family, whatever it might be.
Like we can't separate those.
Everyone's talking about it all grouped together.
That that that was my point.
But the unfortunate reality in this, I'm by no means an influencer by no means.
And I'm not calling K-Row an influencer either, even though he has a massive following and he has a ton of influence.
But when you when you become a public figure.
Your life is now public.
And let alone when you choose to launch a semi-public company.
Right. Like it's not publicly traded.
But now you have holders and people that are supposed to be ambassadors.
You at that point have chosen that route to be a public figure.
And it's bingo. And that's what rubbed me the wrong of anything.
Briggs, we'll go right back to you, is the comments of like, oh, like acting if it was it was a surprise to him that moonshots rocketed up it was a stated
goal from the beginning you know top three pfp like the other like you you already had tremendous
volume and tremendous floors for apes and punks so it's like like something doesn't jive there
right either either that's disingenuous or not fully truthful now or it's disingenuous and wasn't fully truthful in the beginning as far as the the aspiration ambitions to become a top three project.
Because at the time, whether right or wrong, you know, the metric that was used to evaluate a top three project was floor price, you know, was those dollars traded.
Like so it's like I don't I don't buy that statement. And to me, it's like, again, I keep going back to the compounding. I, the words, he words matter,
right? The things you say matter, especially when you are a public figure and leading a
semi-public brand like this. Yeah. Let alone you, you launch with a raffle because the demand was
so high. You minted at two and a half E, people were selling
allow list at eight to 10 E pre mint, you know, it's going to go, it's going, it's headed, it's
headed up. And so unless you're not participating in the markets and participating in this ecosystem,
maybe you, maybe you are in a bubble and don't know. And that's, that's a different problem. Right.
But there,
there were clear signs that you should have known this was going to go
absolutely bananas and had a plan in place for when and if it did,
because I got to tell you, I was talking to Luca down in Miami,
just, you know, having a one-on-one conversation with him at Basel.
And he was like, you know, the reality is this pump is incredible.
It's great that people are finally waking up and seeing what we're doing,
but there's a whole new set of expectations now.
And he understands that.
And understanding the fact that their expectations come with the price
is probably the first step in knowing that there is a fiduciary obligation being a founder in this space.
And so I'm going to kick it right back to you, blockchain, because it was your statement.
Then we're going to go to hell and wrap it up.
Look, I'm not get ready to cast yourself over the entire space to catch the knives rigs.
Look, I'm not saying that Moonbirds and Proof didn't screw up plenty of things along the way.
And a lot of those were probably Kevin and the team's direct responsibility or fault.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying this is a separate thing.
This is him trying to deal with trauma, him trying to deal with his own personal battles, and everyone's grouping that in with the same thing.
And yes, I can see where they overlapped, and maybe he should have stepped down and had somebody else step up, but we can't group this into the same category.
agree uh and again help take the mental part out of it like cap said help should be your number one
priority because the reality is look if you ever fly on a plane the the instructions are if the
oxygen mask comes down put yours on first you can't help others if you can't help yourself
so you've got to help yourself first so that you're mentally and
physically able to. And so I totally agree with you. And what has been said about him has been
incredibly toxic. It's been egregious and quite honestly, unfair. And so I'm with you on that.
Let's kick it over to my daughter.
Just heard me talking about trauma and stuff.
She just walked outside and gave me a little,
little ornament.
She colored herself in a little pudgy penguin. Cause we have like,
yes, kids love the pudgies. I love that.
It's the pink one with the earphones.
I care about you blockchain and I know your story better than others and
it's one of those things that we we're all humans and need to care for one another
at a human level but uh let's kick it over to held mine hey thanks for having me up guys for a
good friend of um dgen network um i'm a mental health professional and i originally kind of
popped up to kind of just give a shout out
to Depressive Hacks to say that I think it's really brave to come up in a space even just
where there's one other person let alone a whole room of people and share your own mental health
journey and share what's what's going on for you and I've witnessed that in this space for my whole
time here and I think it's so valuable and people listening back to the recording will share from there and know that it's okay and take it further and that's really really valuable too I suppose I
haven't listened to the whole Kevin Rose clip but I work with a team of mental health professionals
and we always kind of take a position that people are doing the very best they can even if they're
completely screwing up even if it's terrible and they're
destroying everything as they go, that they set out with a kind of ambition to do the best they
could, whether that be for themselves or for other people or whatever. But I think, you know,
people screw up companies all the time. I'm a founder. I've struggled with my own mental health.
Founders have mental health problems. Founders have sobriety
problems. That's kind of why HealthMind exists in this space to help with that. And I think unless
you've got a team of really good mirrors around you who can reflect back to you what's happening
for you and that you might be in a place of massive vulnerability yourself, you're really exposed.
And I'm not saying that Kevin Rose didn't have that.
I'm just saying that any founder in this space, unless you've got that feedback, that active feedback, I'm not sure where you go with that.
And I'm not sure what that looks like.
And I was thinking about what people were saying about the ketamine side of things.
And here in the UK, ketamine is actually used within mental health treatment quite a lot in a therapeutic way, you know, under clinical conditions.
So I wondered whether that is what Kevin Rose was referring to.
And I just think, you know, there are going to be people who are wounded on all sides of this, the holders, the people in the team, Kevin Rose himself, because I really do think you can have both.
Kevin Rose himself because I really do think you can have both and you can both empathize with
Kevin Rose's mental health and really scrutinize the decisions that he's made that have been really
poor and probably impacted on other people's mental health as well in a really really massive
way so there were just a couple of thoughts that were kind of coming up for me and thanks thanks
for having me guys um hell mine can I just ask you a quick question you said um that you know if you're surrounded by uh people with mirrors or
you know mirrors uh yeah i suppose that's like to kind of help you um i'm guilty of this what if you
don't uh you know take that feedback because this was something that we talked about once before you
know in terms of the the feedback loop because we can be guilty of not taking the feedback even
though the mirrors are around us how do you deal with that so i'm sorry i'm done talking no no it's
fine thanks q i suppose that you you don't know do you depends. We all have to be in the right place to receive that feedback.
And that in itself is sometimes a bit of a privilege as to where we're at in a mentally
resilient way. Can we receive that feedback? So you're right. That's another layer on from the
kind of mirror, mirror that actually, you've got to be in a receptacle position for that.
And if you're not, then it's really, you're really, really stuck. And I think that's where
mental health and physical health is slightly different that it's really really hard
sometimes to help yourself with your mental health you really do need kind of crutches and
a massive system around you in a really robust way and even people with huge amounts of money
and large social networks they don't actually have that in a meaningful way they
haven't received that in a meaningful way I'm not saying that about Kevin Rose I'm saying that about
everyone I think you know people don't maybe take their mental health and their physical health
seriously until there's that crunch point like you were talking about um Gordon earlier you know
saying about his heart condition well there was a crunch point there there was a definitive line of I'm gonna have to appear in court well now I'm gonna have to be honest about
what's happening for me and you know it kind of forces people to have to vocalize this is the
shit that I'm going through and lots of people still keep it under wraps it's still really
stigmatized and I think that's the difficulty in this space, that when the shit hits the fan,
people are then honest and vulnerable.
And again, I'm not talking just about Kevin Rose.
I'm talking about anyone.
Instead of being honest and vulnerable
along the whole journey,
because maybe they didn't have the tools
and the equipment and the voice to do that.
Yeah, totally.
And I appreciate that take.
For sure, Held Nines.
Appreciate you coming up.
I think no,
no better way to wrap this up than going back down to depressive hacks and then cap. I don't know if you're still there, but we'll,
I'll turn it to you to kind of wrap everything up.
Thanks Riggs. Yeah. I appreciate the flowers.
I just kind of thought that this was a good way to summarize, because I think that there are two very clear forces here that are fighting each other, right? So people put a lot of faith in founders, especially in the bull market, and people's track records matter, right? Like, Kevin Rose has a lot of business experience. There are people who started projects with no business experience out of their garage,
right?
I don't think it's crazy to assume that there would be better business practices and risk
mitigation in something that Kevin Rose started than a random person out of the garage.
So I understand where people are coming from in terms of their expectations not being met
in terms of their expectations not being met for that.
for that.
I also understand that if you have never experienced mental health difficulties,
that you couldn't be less prepared for what's about to happen to you than any other thing in your entire life.
And so there is this seriously strong force of, you know, business experience and business prowess and knowing what to do in a business sense.
And then there's also this other extremely strong force of I'm doing personally and how I feel about myself.
And that is not the easiest place to be in.
And it's very difficult to try to weigh those two things against each other.
And it's very difficult to try to weigh those two things against each other.
I have spent a lot of time in therapy talking about why I have confidence in myself as a professional and the work that I do and no confidence in myself as a person and my innate value as a human being.
That doesn't make a lot of sense. Right. And that's very confusing.
So, yeah, I, I appreciate the opportunity to
come up here and speak. I appreciate you throwing it back. I think that this is a complicated topic
that has a lot of stakeholders and a lot of people involved. And a lot of good points have
been made on both sides. And I think that there is a middle ground where we can appreciate the
humanity of it and empathize.
Like Riggs said, empathize is the right word, I think.
But also appreciate the business side of things and know that for somebody who has experience
and had expectations based on that experience and things that were said, that those expectations
were not met.
And I don't think those two things have to be, they're not mutually exclusive.
You can sit in the middle and say both of these things are true
and both of these things are valuable arguments.
And without overstepping the line and slinging personal attacks
or completely disregarding what has happened
and saying everything's okay, we don't need to hop to extremes. We can acknowledge that both things are feasible at the same time and that everybody is in a complicated situation, for sure.
already following these two, go give them a follow, dive into what HeldMind is doing in
greater detail. And I think this is like, it is one thing I will walk away from this morning show
with is I do feel, I don't know how to quantify it per se, but I do feel Web3 as a whole is much more, like the topic of mental health is discussed
at a greater frequency by more individuals than the general population and discussed
in a respectable manner.
And while everyone may not agree with the chosen treatment plans or how people deal with it,
I think that that is not for us to judge.
Rather, having the conversations and individuals like Depressive Hacks being vulnerable and
just sharing his story and Blockchain Ninja.
It's like this is, I believe, part of the change that Web3 is having on society at large.
This is, you know, it will take years for this ripple to really infiltrate society at large,
but it just feels like, you know, people can make fun of Wagme or Safe Space,
like those quote unquote buzzwords as much as they want.
I've seen it, We've seen the leadership
from teams like HeldMind and the time and genuine intention that they are putting into this space.
And then just the conversations that people like Depressive Hacks are comfortable to talk about it
and share their stories. I know there's other circles of society that are open like this,
but I don't know as if there are that many where it's not a mental health space.
It's not a mental health Facebook group.
Or the fact that we're able to interweave this as a topic of conversation often.
weave this as a topic of conversation often. And to held mine's point, I think being a founder is
hard. Being an entrepreneur is hard. Trading is hard. I'm not a mental health expert. I do believe
that this space, there's probably why we're... I'm glad that we're able to talk about mental
health so frequently because there probably is a much greater percentage of those of us here that have addictive personality traits that are on the, you know, if it's a spectrum that many of us probably are much more towards the addictive side of things than a non-addictive side of things.
And Heldmine mentioned alcoholism and other recreational drugs. Unfortunately, people will cope and deal with their mental health in a lot of unhealthy ways. And I'm hopeful that conversations like this bring to the surface, it's okay to not be okay and to talk about it and reach out to others who maybe have went through something or gone through something and ask for help.
I don't care what a founder does, how they treat their mental health.
It's important that they prioritize it.
I think it's great that they talk about it.
To tie it all together, I think that there is a need for some separation of an individual's
personal life and to be able to respect their privacies there and understand that they're
going to have priorities they need to take care of and the business side of things versus when
we're building in public so frequently, the things that go too far is when we start, I feel,
frequently the things that go too far is when we start, I feel, attacking people's homes or
doxing their private life because of our frustrations with how they're leading a business.
I think that is... And that I could see continuing to wear on those founders' mental health. It's
not healthy and not something I would be envious of at all.
Riggs, I'll kick it back to you.
Any other thoughts,
but then we will shut things down.
I appreciate you jumping up
and helping co-hosts as I continue to...
I think it's almost clean now.
Hopefully the last time I'm cleaning poop
out of the robot.
Riggs, any closing comments
and then we'll shut it down.
No, just a really good conversation today.
The entire thing, I always learn things and can reflect on things from conversations like this.
And so I just appreciate the vulnerability of people like Depressive Hacks coming up here, blockchain.
It's always good to hear things and know that you're not alone, right?
And so I just appreciate that and hope everybody can go out there,
have an incredible day, have an incredible weekend.
If you are struggling, ask for help.
And if you are just kind of down and out about things and you don't feel like
you need that help, get outside, get some exercise, spend time with friends,
family and step away, step away and just get your mind right.
But I just appreciate it, Cap. Thanks for having me up here. And it's always a pleasure to join you.
Likewise. Stoop, go ahead.
Yeah, I just wanted to say, I wish everyone a blessed and prosperous 2024. I think we've all
been here through the struggle. The bear market was 2023.
We have made it.
We're on the other side.
We're seeing some rallies.
We're seeing some green candles.
So I honestly just wish everyone the best.
I look forward to seeing everyone next year here on Coffee with Captain.
And we're celebrating wins tonight.
We're celebrating wins of the year.
I didn't really bring it up.
I didn't really show it or anything.
But we're celebrating wins of the year tonight,
4 p.m. Pacific, 7 p.m. Eastern,
if y'all are around.
Wow.
I definitely hit that up.
Also, you just may realize,
it's the last show of the year.
Monday, we'll be back,
but it actually is January 1st.
So for all of you kids out there that are going to be partying on New Year's Eve,
just stay up a few extra hours
and join us for coffee on January 1st, bright and early at 8 a.m. Eastern. Don't drink and drive.
Definitely don't drink and drive. Go have as much fun as you want. But there are Ubers,
there's friends. My DMs are always open. I can't go and pick you up in a car. But if you're ever
at a point you can't afford an Uber, I would gladly treat you to an Uber to make it home safely versus you getting behind
the wheel of a car inebriated.
I'm going to probably drop
a Medium article I pinned
five, six years ago maybe.
I think I had
stopped drinking at the time
for maybe somewhere between six to nine months
when I wrote it because it gave me some time to reflect.
You can certainly go through a mental health journey and work on yourself and continue to drink.
For me, I chose to eliminate alcohol. It was one of the crutches I use to deal with stress and cope.
And even like the farce of a nightcapcap, if I was stressed, couldn't turn my
brain off, having a drink or two to help me fall asleep was something, I created a bad habit for
myself. So that was part of the journey I went through. But I've been there. I say this genuinely,
my DMs are open. If anyone's going through something, I'm not a mental health expert.
You really should connect people like the team at HeldMind. However, if you just need to talk,
I'm happy to give you that time.
You may have to ping me a few times to get my attention in the DMs, but I genuinely would love
to help any way I can. And sometimes that's just listen. I've been through that entrepreneurial
rollercoaster and really dark down times. And for me, it was after I had a big win. I built a business from zero to about $25 million a year in revenue and had an exit and then had a failed venture or a venture that didn't even fail. It ultimately ended up leading to where I wanted to, but it did not come without some extreme financial hardship and that led to more coping and drinking and ultimately led to
a divorce and being separated from my family for a couple years other than getting to see a kid
every other weekend was by far the most challenging period and stretch of my life. It's also the most,
like if I were to sum up a period where I had the most
personal growth and development and what made me who I am today, it's that period where I really
went through it and came out of it. I know it sounds cheesy, but I came out of it a much
better person, a much stronger person. But it wasn't without going through it and feeling those feelings and just being in the mud for a while.
And it was a tough journey, but a lot of it... I share this because as I look back and reflect,
part of it was I felt as a leader, as a CEO, as a founder with this, I could never show
those weaknesses. I couldn't let anyone down. And I wrap with this because I don't want to
lose sight of that. I'm old enough. There's a time not that long ago where you would never
have seen a founder or a CEO come out and say they were struggling with mental health and
share what they were going through. Despite overwhelming majority of them going through
stressful moments and going through those times, it was you couldn't show any weaknesses
and and that's just a lie it's just not being authentic it's just not who people are and
i think helping others understand that you know even for those that have done well and had success
like sometimes you know you know you know shout out to biggie. He hit it decades ago, like mo' money, mo' problems sometimes.
And it does bring with stress and pressures.
And too often, founders and CEOs, leaders, at least my generation, we were taught to internalize all that.
to internalize all that. You couldn't show any chinks in your armor. And I can just, after my
You couldn't show any chinks in your armor.
personal journey, now that if I'm going through something, I will share at least with some of my
closest friends and talk through it. And that was the other thing during that time is that I really,
it did show who real friends were. And I'm very fortunate today. I feel like I have hundreds of
those real friends that thanks to this space, more of those real friends
that I could share with some of my struggles
and going through it
if I get back in that rut again.
So the least I could do is return the favor.
If I can ever be of any assistance,
it'd just be an ear.
I'm happy to do so.
With that,
thanks so much for joining us today.
I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday weekend. Be safe out there. It's been an incredible 2023. Speaking for Steve,
we are ecstatic to bring in the new year and not only bring on some new guests next week,
but talk about some new partners. We are not excited about transactional sponsorships
in any sort of advertising or marketing. We're very excited about transactional sponsorships in any sort of advertising or marketing.
We're very excited about building long-term partnerships, strategic partnerships with
others in the space that we look up to and respect. And we're excited to bring hopefully
even more value to this community at large by way of some of these sponsorships, partnerships, and what the
new year may bring. So thank you all so much for the support this year. It's been an incredible one.
We are looking forward to the new year. And again, hope everyone has a wonderful,
wonderful weekend. Stay safe. Don't drink a drive. And as Steve would say, have a wonderful,
wonderful day, everyone. This episode is brought to you by dgen network the
only community-based web3 media network bringing you the very best content in the nft and
cryptocurrency space please visit dgen.network and check out our other great shows that's dgen dgen
dot network welcome to the future.
